< 1291075201 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :German < 1291075203 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese < 1291075204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the useless kind < 1291075205 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russian < 1291075209 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esperanto < 1291075210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that barely anybody speaks < 1291075210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1291075217 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English < 1291075224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's useful but ugly. < 1291075227 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arabic < 1291075228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just talk in haskell. < 1291075232 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hebrew < 1291075245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English: the C++ of the language world. < 1291075251 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure. you go first. < 1291075267 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knw 3 languages that are real < 1291075269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sure. you go first. < 1291075280 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: C++ is fine as the C++ of the language world. < 1291075282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: (an illustration of what happens if you have two mutually recursive functions outputting infinite lists with no starter elements in either) < 1291075283 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English, Spanish, Japanese, but I'm not so good at spanish :D < 1291075285 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bloated, it sucks, and everyone uses it through sheer force of weirdness. < 1291075289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: C++ is fine as the C++ of the language world. < 1291075293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like the moron of the people world? < 1291075295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the uh < 1291075300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychopathic rapist moron < 1291075318 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a gun < 1291075318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, last message is about C++ < 1291075321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a high note --> < 1291075322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1291075326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so: what are you going to do? < 1291075330 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the Esperanto of the computer world? < 1291075333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I will sleep < 1291075337 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java, i guess < 1291075344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, now? I shall sleep. < 1291075344 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1291075349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, same < 1291075371 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the opposite of esperanto, whatever that is, is INTERCAL < 1291075402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO.o actually does have one use: twiddling with weird fonds. < 1291075405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fonts < 1291075424 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1291075425 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1291075429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, abiword could do that? < 1291075444 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just implied that twiddling with weird fonts was somehow useful. < 1291075454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, they suck in the same way, really. < 1291075481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed < 1291075490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and isn't it? < 1291075506 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, hmm...nope. < 1291075507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I use Computer Modern and that is it < 1291075530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it worked for Knuth it works for me < 1291075550 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what i'm using here, but for most stuff i'm using droid sans because it is very legible at small sizes < 1291075564 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(droid sans mono, i mean) < 1291075570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use that subpixel text renderer thing. < 1291075584 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also known as anti-aliasing < 1291075621 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and droid sans looks pretty okay anti-aliased too. < 1291075622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it actually had letters that were 5x1 pixels. < 1291075629 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1291075637 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me < 1291075644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott linked to it a while ago, but I've lost it. < 1291075658 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the colors as separate components? < 1291075664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, here we go: < 1291075665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://distractionware.com/blog/?p=193 < 1291075672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, oh for *on screen*? < 1291075679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dejavu sans mono or dejavu sans then < 1291075703 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's what i may be using in the terminal. maybe. < 1291075728 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all other apps, droid sans (i switched *from* deja vu sans) < 1291075767 0 :FireFly|n900!~n900@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291075773 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that link is neat. i can actually read that! < 1291075774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it works by using the 3 subpixels to get the horizontal resolution. < 1291075779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1291075821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I can't read it. Too high res on this monitor < 1291075834 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(114 dpi or something such) < 1291075840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try it on my desktop < 1291075846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is 96 dpi or such) < 1291075853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, some letters on that < 1291075857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not most < 1291075929 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a tech demo for the Nintendo DS rendering a font with subpixels a few years ago < 1291075936 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea behind it < 1291075987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1291076014 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's definitely unreadable on this display < 1291076113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine < 1291076122 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291076123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly|n900, you have one too? < 1291076135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n900 I mean) < 1291076246 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1291076324 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to sleep now, though < 1291076382 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@2001:4428:251:1:221:27ff:fece:82fb JOIN :#esoteric < 1291076385 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1291076385 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1291076455 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can barely read that font < 1291076466 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, I'm blind in one eye < 1291076751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1291078104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291078427 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7473206-anticipation-builds-for-dec-2-nasa-news-conference-on-astrobiology-finding-related-to-extraterrestrial-life < 1291078429 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliens! < 1291078460 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291078483 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think is a good way to manipulate a java irc bot that supports a form of bytecode < 1291078542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would blindness in one eye affect ability to see that? < 1291078585 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291078596 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-40-170.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291078598 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes it harder to see :/ < 1291079461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.level3.com/index.cfm?pageID=491&PR=962 < 1291079484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit Level 3, you should've just cut them off. < 1291079500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let them be completely disconnected from the Internet. < 1291079673 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291082198 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-11-39.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291083741 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-40-229.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291083762 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291085186 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291088305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 fooplot.com < 1291088330 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-46-26.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291088463 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1291088752 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291089928 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1291092048 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, I have a good recommendation for you. < 1291092054 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't joke about having sex... < 1291092075 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes they will say yes when you don't expect it, and all other times you will feel pain... < 1291092083 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loss-Loss situation... < 1291092101 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will your mom forgive you? < 1291092173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Some wouldn't call the first case a loss. < 1291092218 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well I'm all for doing it, but not if I hardly know them < 1291092250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again. Some people beg to differ. < 1291092336 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1291092355 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people have aids too, but that isn't my problem/ < 1291092391 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291092397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people use condoms. (Not that that's perfect, meh) < 1291092531 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1291093491 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck < 1291093492 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me < 1291093500 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a cool quote or what < 1291093521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly mundane statement regarding copulation, seems to me. < 1291093530 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1291093541 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No matter the outcome, reaching it is always the best one can hope for." < 1291093546 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somethign along the lines < 1291093550 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said it at random < 1291093652 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool right? :( < 1291094202 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630] < 1291094731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... sounds wrong, but as though it's similar to a more inspirational statement. < 1291095754 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't have sex with someone you know? < 1291095781 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very weird < 1291095850 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: it has that profound feel to it < 1291095868 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's possible it's actually stupid, have to think about it! < 1291095880 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks < 1291095904 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, like a hot girl comes and is like hey goosebumps wanna pump my goose < 1291095907 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're like < 1291095916 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah you could have like aids and shit < 1291095977 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1291095999 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I would like a girl to be pretty(and to be honest probably would need one) < 1291096004 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pretty girl is attractive < 1291096054 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm how old are you? < 1291096155 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying to figure you out < 1291096175 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a pretty girl I know = instant ecsasy < 1291096177 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 < 1291096190 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm alright < 1291096261 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe sex is still a big deal to you? < 1291096265 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would definitely explain it < 1291096273 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1291096276 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, probably as I have only done it once < 1291096281 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not something you just happen to like to have every day < 1291096284 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1291096288 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still feel like its important to choose < 1291096289 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then i have no quarrel with you < 1291096318 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk to me when you're 20, same drive, no rules < 1291096320 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291096335 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a girl tells you they wanna fuck you still manage to rape here < 1291096337 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*her < 1291096361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, uh? < 1291096381 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know < 1291096385 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they actually want to have sex < 1291096394 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you sex them up more than they wanted < 1291096413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1291096416 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was clear enough < 1291096416 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291096430 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was a rape joke, in case you missed that < 1291096445 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha.... < 1291096459 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is going to love this slowfest < 1291096556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can relate well to any sexual situations < 1291096562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except, of course, not having < 1291096648 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you have to have raped ppl to get that joke < 1291096660 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another rape joke btw) < 1291096685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just in a less than perfectly pleasant mood today < 1291096691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully tomorrow I'll be giddy again < 1291096791 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you don't find rape funny, there must be something wrong with you, yes < 1291096808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not pleasant mood < 1291096811 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is an awesome day < 1291096852 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just woke up, the world doesn't seem to have woken up yet but i like watching her sleep < 1291096856 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all dark outside < 1291096885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I think I offended the girl I like this past Saturday < 1291096915 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and were you all Sgeo like "did i offend you in some way?" < 1291096919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to see her tomorrow (unless she was so disturbed that she decides to go someplace else) < 1291096920 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291096928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I said Sorry < 1291096929 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"disturbed"? < 1291096935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do? :D < 1291096954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried to point out that some information that she implied was private was visible on her profile < 1291096961 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, being a guy and having had sex before, I'm deprived and in need < 1291096966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(private from me, at least) < 1291096979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if it's supposed to be world-private < 1291096988 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: there are websites full of women < 1291097001 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, porn doesn't do it... < 1291097015 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant "dating" sites < 1291097025 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 15.... < 1291097029 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't need that. < 1291097042 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to coax this one girl into letting me in :P < 1291097068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION alarums < 1291097072 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i hear the chase is fun too < 1291097082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I know that the similarity with "alarm" is completely superficial) < 1291097095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1291097097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not... < 1291097140 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you can see her profile, that's a valid comment < 1291097177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When she tried to get clarification on what I meant, I tried to get clarification of her clarification request (not in these words) < 1291097187 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291097212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe information sharing isn't exactly something she thinks about daily < 1291097238 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you were talking about a concept she's unfamiliar with, and you were being a total nerd about it and that was annoying < 1291097326 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LET US MODEL THE WORLD AS THIS LITTLE THING I CALL THE INFORMATION SHARING GRAPH (PATENT PENDING NAH I'M TOTALLY OPEN SOURCE DON'T WORRY), ..." < 1291097332 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1291097353 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably not be a graph actually < 1291097354 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1291097359 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bus leaves in two minutes < 1291097366 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have cheated me into missing it < 1291097367 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1291097373 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, definitely < 1291097429 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard there's another bus, but i never had to use it without supervision < 1291097440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry :( < 1291097686 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream that i was in a train, and the tracks went through an ocean < 1291097700 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people surviving the trip was guaranteed as follows < 1291097706 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since the train didn't have a roof) < 1291097720 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they died, they respawned back on their seats < 1291097783 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm there was another drowning dream that's not interesting enough to share, what's the meaning of drowning in dreams < 1291097803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a dream about a dimension-travelling elevator < 1291097812 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also had lesbian sex in a dream < 1291097815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a library that it took you to that described all the dimensions < 1291097836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, my dream seems less interesting < 1291097839 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291097855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, don't miss your next bus < 1291097897 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the train thing was more interesting than the being a woman thing, also i think i was a man disguised as a woman < 1291097904 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't remember the details < 1291097910 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oh god i was ugly < 1291097913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1291097916 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll run now -> < 1291098759 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1291098764 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That chase was short < 1291098771 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moves this weekend, then her house < 1291098775 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then lets see what happens :D < 1291100048 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What's the worst thing about being a redneck ? < 1291100049 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Tasting your dad's semen when you're eating out your sister < 1291100051 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : iim thinking.... how would you recognise it as your dads? < 1291101506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291101533 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1291101704 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291102241 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291103167 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291103689 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1291103830 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-196.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291103999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1291104000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1291104638 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291104675 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291104837 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1291105445 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291106249 0 :FireFly|n900!~n900@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291107205 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291108817 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291109867 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1291110355 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291110384 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-180-36.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291110385 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1291110385 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1291113065 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1291113281 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230229057.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1291113951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1291114275 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Houston prediction of IPv4 depletion has added note that "run on the bank" scenario may have begun... < 1291114716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the Piet sqrt(-garfield) I did came out: http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=559 < 1291114752 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, using more uncertain terms about deployiment schedules accelerating... < 1291115082 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291116517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291117596 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291120485 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1291120630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:42:34 Dislike.... < 1291120631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:42:35 D: < 1291120631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:43:00 How sad < 1291120634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, xkcd /is/ terrible. < 1291120649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computational_linguists far predates the terrible though < 1291120664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have finally managed to expunge it from my RSS feed, and I feel like a great weight has lifted. < 1291121007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I think esolang development has stagnated into eternal Brainfuck derivatives. < 1291121030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggested solution: expunge all notions of Brainfuck from the collective psyche. < 1291121081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:14 interestingly, if you had a library of all possible text files arranged alphabetically, _finding_ anything interesting in it would be as hard as inventing it yourself < 1291121086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :library of babble < 1291121098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *brainfuck < 1291121101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: please capitalise it correctly < 1291121106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1291121133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "The brainfuck compiler knows the following instructions:" --Urban Müller, README, brainfuck < 1291121143 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:14 interestingly, if you had a library of all possible text files arranged alphabetically, _finding_ anything interesting in it would be as hard as inventing it yourself ← surely the set of all possible text files is uncountably infinite? < 1291121149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (It is probably "Brainfuck" at the start of the sentence; i.e. normal noun rules.) < 1291121159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no it isn't. < 1291121162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget that remark. < 1291121185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, but the set of all possible infinite text files is, ofc < 1291121191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1291121194 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1291121357 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291121364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22:15:14 interestingly, if you had a library of all possible text files arranged alphabetically, _finding_ anything interesting in it would be as hard as inventing it yourself ← surely the set of all possible text files is uncountably infinite? < 1291121378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, it isn't. < 1291121383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott deviously did not paste my correction to that statement < 1291121410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:52 *text files of a certain length < 1291121411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1291121414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't notice :P < 1291121860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, brainfuck no longer officially exists is what I'm getting at. < 1291121878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1291121903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is for the good of esolangs everywhere. < 1291121913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, true < 1291121995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I suggest that its page on the wiki be deleted and anyone mentioning it in the channel be kickbanned. < 1291122011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Self-hosting Lisp-to-C compiler in 384 lines of Lisp" < 1291122017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! A programming language LANGUAGE! < 1291122022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...erm < 1291122026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mozilla is Designing a New Programming Language Language Called Rust" < 1291122027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! A programming language LANGUAGE! < 1291122045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i agree; wait, what no longer officially exists? < 1291122052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1291122054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'll get to it right after i kickban you for stalking me on Godel's Letter < 1291122058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it exists. < 1291122069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: damn you should have said brainfuck and got oerjan to kickban you < 1291122076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did he do anything other than post one comment < 1291122077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1291122094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no but it was still a bit embarassing < 1291122098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's that weird word you just said? < 1291122109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah i wouldn't want to be associated with all the morons in here either in good company < 1291122131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+r < 1291122142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to be fair, oklofok was considering visiting you. :P < 1291122196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1291122198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so wait, what actually happened? < 1291122206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan got eaten by a bear. < 1291122219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he got better < 1291122235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: apparently he was going to be perfectly nice right after he forced you to let him in < 1291122248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you missed a life experience dude, should have stayed off irc for a couple more weeks < 1291122265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they have bears in Norway? < 1291122271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed we do < 1291122272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, that's the interesting thing < 1291122290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the farmers keep complaining about mauled sheep < 1291122311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you have sheep in Norway? < 1291122312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the blame for that also includes wolves < 1291122315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's just to cover up their unsavoury pastime, isn't it? < 1291122321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: _possibly_ < 1291122356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wolves were relatively recently deliberately reintroduced after having been extinct in norway, iirc < 1291122388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "you know what his town needs?" "what?" "wolves." < 1291122538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they usually try to keep them out of towns i think. norway _is_ rather sparsely populated compared to most of europe < 1291122550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if i come to norway will everyone welcome me < 1291122554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or run away in fear < 1291122566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i didn't know you were a wolf < 1291122580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not < 1291122616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some farmers are _very_ angry at the wolf project, there have been poachings < 1291122640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert implication that farmers have intercourse with the wolves < 1291122659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you were a wolf you should probably stay away < 1291122685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but i amn't < 1291122704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegians are relatively introverted so most will probably ignore you if you don't talk directly to them < 1291122733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking to strangers on a bus is not generally done, here, for example, unlike some countries < 1291122742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unlike finland, where they actually have an in-built person sensor that treats other people like anti-gravity < 1291122750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a built-in < 1291122891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how it is in england, you're still a northwestern european country... < 1291122927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'd assume you're not terribly high on the extroversion scale either < 1291124061 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291124370 0 :FireFly|n900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291124618 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1291124691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1291124964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, I solved the fakeroot problem ("you need --prefix=/ for libraries and bad programs and stuff, but then make install won't go into the nice happy temporarily build root"). < 1291124981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, I solved it by STEALING someone else's solution cunningly, by way of reading a man page. < 1291125261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They could just use the standard ISO code for gender: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5218" <-- standard is actually the ISO code for sex < 1291125346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scientifically speaking there are only two possible genders; xx and xy corresponding to male or female." What is it with people who have no idea what the difference between "gender" and "sex" is X_X (and even "chromosomes" in this case, see: intersex) < 1291125618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://three.sentenc.es/ "In which we try and make email as useless as we can" < 1291125880 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@c-24-131-149-41.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291125882 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1291125883 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1291125911 0 :FireFly|n900!~n900@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291126140 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1291126266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume that the frigid northlands of England are still snowy, then? < 1291126290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Indeed. May the snow never end, for it brings luscious late wakeups and long fruitful days. < 1291126317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Playing in the snow is presumably decadent and capitalist? < 1291126366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, that, but mostly cold. < 1291126386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also less fun than programming. < 1291126450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming in the snow! < 1291126520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brr < 1291126600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean programming with a snowputer. < 1291126719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Term = Name String < 1291126719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Var String < 1291126719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Conj [Term] < 1291126719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simp :: Term -> Term < 1291126719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simp (Conj [x]) = x < 1291126720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simp (Conj xs) = Conj (map simp xs) < 1291126722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simp x = x < 1291126727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, someone make the data-type Term have simp embedded into it < 1291126734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like calling simp all the time < 1291126779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, i don't need that < 1291127017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you writing this time? < 1291127121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Implementing Anemone in Haskell to write a self-interpreter. < 1291127128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (It is already implemented, but the implementation is hideous.) < 1291127136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anemone? < 1291127211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Anemone < 1291127218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Basically the purest expression of term rewriting. < 1291127364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, in such a language could you write a program for any arbitrary syntax? < 1291127378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Umm, not really. < 1291127380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, sort of... < 1291127390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But not in the way you're thinking of. Try Thue. :p < 1291127421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constant Variable LAMBDA-PARAMETERS-LIMIT < 1291127422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constant Value: < 1291127422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation-dependent, but not smaller than 50. < 1291127422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Description: < 1291127422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A positive integer that is the upper exclusive bound on the number of parameter names that can appear in a single lambda list. < 1291127423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--CLHS < 1291127427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1291127441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's that about? < 1291127452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Of course with Thue your "syntax" has to be hideous because all you can do is replace constant strings with constant strings. < 1291127457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, define that. < 1291127464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CLHS thing. < 1291127468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you mention it? < 1291127473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am not sure. < 1291127883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have this yearning to prove something meaningful in Coq... < 1291127962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: specificity :: VTerm -> CTerm -> Maybe Integer < 1291127963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lawd. < 1291127980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are VTerms and CTerms? < 1291127992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do some nice purely-functional data structure in it and prove your operations correct, then extract them to Haskell, write a small wrapper library around them in Haskell to make the interface slightly more Haskelly, and put it on Hackage. < 1291127995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instant prophet. < 1291128007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VTerms are terms that can have placeholders in them, like Foo and Bar. CTerms can't. < 1291128036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VTerms are the left hand side of rules, basically. < 1291128095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's St. Andrew's Day now? < 1291128097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when? < 1291128104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was in January! < 1291128340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wanna extend my function to have an extra result?!?! < 1291128356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specificityAndBindings :: VTerm -> CTerm -> Maybe (Integer, [Rule]) < 1291128357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, baby. < 1291128734 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" then lets see what happens :D" <<< remember to share all the details < 1291128749 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it in pm if you don't want all the nosy people on this channel to know < 1291128778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.Maybe> idR < 1291128778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id X = X < 1291128778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.Maybe> foo < 1291128778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id (id x) < 1291128778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.Maybe> sab (lhs idR) foo < 1291128779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just (2,[X = id x]) < 1291128781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :score < 1291128786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: wut < 1291128995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell.org is down. < 1291128997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1291129359 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291129646 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if i want to reference multiple lines, i usually just take the last one if there's no good representative, and the lines are too long for copying all of them < 1291129675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: we need a way to refer to lines without including them, and then we can set up all our clients to turn them into links to the logs < 1291129734 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would be a nice feature, although preferably it wouldn't just be a link, but just a handle to the object representing that point of the logs; then you could just use the standard object viewer to look at what's being referenced < 1291129757 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i mention there's an os around this feature < 1291129795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose >>[days:]lineno[-lineno]{"," lineno[-lineno]}, where if omitted, the days part is "0:"; daysago is either a negative number e.g. "-3" meaning "N days ago" i.e. 3 days ago there, or a date in the "YY.MM.DD" syntax clog uses; lineno is the line number of the first message referenced, and the second lineno is the last message referenced; only one line is referenced if this is omitted < 1291129798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, while we're at it we should at LaTeX renderers to all of our clients. < 1291129800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple ranges can be separated by , < 1291129801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore < 1291129806 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ i can finally officially "apply" for a bachelor's degree! fucking paperwork < 1291129806 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1291129806 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |\ < 1291129834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>-3:13-42,192-197 references the lines 13 42 and lines 192 to 197 (inclusive) in the clog log three days behind the current log < 1291129844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current log is 10.11.30, therefore it references 10.11.27 < 1291129861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the client just has to link each range separately, and go to a page which has the lines in question highlighted < 1291129864 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-40-200.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291129871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, that would be a nice feature, although preferably it wouldn't just be a link, but just a handle to the object representing that point of the logs; then you could just use the standard object viewer to look at what's being referenced < 1291129872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : did i mention there's an os around this feature < 1291129875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: is it called oklOS < 1291129887 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1291129898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: funny, 'cuz it looks like elliottos too :P < 1291129903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i just steal your ideas constantly huh < 1291129936 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291129983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bestsab :: [Rule] -> CTerm -> (CTerm, [Rule]) < 1291129983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bestsab rs t = < 1291129983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (\(_,bs,x) -> (x, bs)) . < 1291129983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maximumBy (\(i,_,_) (j,_,_) -> compare i j) . < 1291129983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : catMaybes . < 1291129984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : map (\r -> sab (lhs r) t >>= \(i,bs) -> Just (i,bs,rhs r)) $ rs < 1291129987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: make this function not hideously ugly < 1291130040 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well were the people who wrote the bible stealing? < 1291130050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: stealing my heart, yes < 1291130054 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1291130070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you related to this "Elliott Associates" who financed Attachmate's buyout of Novell? Is this a hint of conspiraracy I smell? < 1291130070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sniffs < 1291130072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not funny! < 1291130076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes; I am also Conal Elliott. < 1291130083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, you. < 1291130092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I am everyone in #esoteric apart from oklofok, and I'm working on that one. < 1291130095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am oklopol, however.) < 1291130102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw the two t's, you see. < 1291130131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day i'll be rich and famous and you guys will be going on about my Ts and I'll kill you all to death < 1291130134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what bitches THEN WHAT < 1291130172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does anyone want to hear about how i solved a very boring problem < 1291130185 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt elliott: ttoillet tub < 1291130197 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i solved two interesting problems today < 1291130199 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-93.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291130202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: *ellio turd < 1291130211 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you wouldn't understand the problem statement < 1291130221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that addressed to everyone or just me specifically :D < 1291130225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I heard a rumour that some researcher that-a-way <-- had done some experiments on unsupervised IRC conversation topic disentanglements; i.e. you take a pile of chatlogs and it separates overlapping conversations. (Probably not very well.) < 1291130238 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i shouldn't say *i* solved them, it was a joint effort, i just talk a lot < 1291130262 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think mostly you < 1291130268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i hate you <3 < 1291130280 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-40-200.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291130284 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even oerjan couldn't understand the problem statement as it is stated < 1291130297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: dude i said we needed like, a client that did that! < 1291130303 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if i define the concepts, not really that complicated < 1291130311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't notice you said that. < 1291130312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: except it was more manual and probably a pain to use because i don't believe an algo could do that very well without strong ai :P < 1291130316 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291130346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was mostly topic-keywordy sort of thing, so it probably wouldn't indeed do very well. < 1291130367 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a maximal family of pairwise orthogonal latin squares exists iff a (n^2, n, 1) design exists iff a (n^2 + n + 1, n + 1, 1) design exists < 1291130385 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*squares of size nxn < 1291130391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was Long Ago(tm) -- like, a year -- it just came up in the context of speech separation (of overlapping audio signals with multiple speakers), which is somewhat more feasible. < 1291130446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you're a latin square < 1291130447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1291130541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm not < 1291130550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you are bitches < 1291130576 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that problem is a lot of fun, i can define the concepts if anyone wants to try it < 1291130611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i am so tempted to get rid of dependencies entirely :D < 1291130612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1291130690 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an (v, k, l) design is: (S, (B_i)), where |S| = v, |B_i| = k, and for every x != y \in S, {x, y} \subset B_i for exactly l different B_i < 1291130735 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin square = sudoku grid except you don't look at the 3x3 squares < 1291130744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every row has one copy of each number < 1291130748 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for columns < 1291130758 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-40-200.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291130822 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two latin squares L_1 and L_2 are orthogonal, if for every (x, y) \in A^2, where A are the numbers used to fill the squares, there is exactly one (i, j) such that L_1[i, j] = x, L_2[i, j] = y < 1291130837 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291130848 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(afaik this is not orthogonality w.r.t. any dot product) < 1291130861 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't even know how to make lats a vector space) < 1291130947 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway also you need to know this, not that hard to prove: a (n^2, n, 1) design is always "resolvable", that is, you can partition the set ofe B_i into "parallel classes" D_j such that the union of D_j is S and all B_i \in D_j are disjoint < 1291131014 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance that classic problem of having teams and having each one compete with one other team each day, and just once a day etc, is the problem of "finding a resolvable (n, 2, 1) design" < 1291131033 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although obviously there's a unique (n, 2, 1) design, so basically you just need to show those are always resolvable < 1291131049 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they always? hmm < 1291131128 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if n is even then it's possible < 1291131131 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise obviously not < 1291131143 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't make a parallel class < 1291131146 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291131169 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*set of < 1291131370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: (snd *** snd.fst) . maximumBy (compare `on` fst `on` fst) . catMaybes . map (ap ((>>=) . flip sab t . lhs) ((Just .) . flip (,) . rhs) $ rs < 1291131520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( busybox lacks a useful feature < 1291131561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1291131600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which feature? < 1291131689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: GNU tar lets you do "--numeric-owner --owner=root --group=root" to produce a tarball, as an unprivileged user, that has all its files owned by root. < 1291131695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This is, of course, very useful when creating packages. < 1291131703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: busybox tar is considerably cleaner, and does not have this at all. < 1291131716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The alternative is chmodding everything to 0:0 beforehand, which, of course, requires you to be root. < 1291131744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. That's a genuinely useful feature of GNU tar. < 1291131764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [[Note that zsync only (currently) supports single-file downloads. I am currently of the opinion that this is sufficient: it is a file distribution method, and, like .tar.gz, it is up to the downloader to worry about extraction, permisions, etc. zsync is not competing with rsync for synchronising directory trees between machines and over shell accounts.]] < 1291131766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bah. < 1291131772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike, say, its ability to handle tarballs split across multiple discs/tapes. < 1291131777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I USE THAT ALL THE TIME DUDE :P < 1291131790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this *would* actually be useful if it WORKED) < 1291131814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not very, but hey. It would at least have valid hysterical raisins.) < 1291131823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In other news, I solved the fakeroot problem ("I need to compile this package with --prefix=/, because of libraries and bad programs and stuff which change compilation result depending on the prefix. However, I can't install to /, because I have to install to a temporary build root to slurp all the files into a package."). < 1291131829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1291131831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By "solved" I mean "stole a solution of". < 1291131833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Simple! < 1291131843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ./configure --prefix=/ && make && make install prefix=/temporary/build/root < 1291131864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, works perfectly well for well-behaved packages. < 1291131875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Credits due to Bennett Todd, author of bpm and maintainer of Bent Linux, whose bpmbuild(1) man page includes the following: < 1291131877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : build \ < 1291131877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tar xzvf bash-2.05b.tar.gz && cd bash-2.05b && < 1291131877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ./configure --enable-static-link --prefix=/usr --with-curses && < 1291131877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : make && make prefix=$BPM_ROOT/usr install < 1291131886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The existence of non-well-behaved packages fucks things up, though. < 1291131896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, well, fuck them :P < 1291131912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is, believe it or not, one of the things preventing GNU System from having even an alpha release) < 1291131912 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so erm S = {0, ..., n-2, :D}, and D_i (i = 1, ..., n - 1) is just {x, i - x} for all x except if x = i-x then have the pair {x, :D} for the special element :D, then D_i is a parallel class for all i, and {x, y} \in D_i \cap D_j => well clearly i = j < 1291131934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though they're crazy folks who insist on GNU software, which isn't all well-behaved. So.) < 1291131935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: :D < 1291131939 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah they are always resolvable < 1291131952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "GNU System"? < 1291131962 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by clearly. < 1291131964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is that like, HURD + gnu coreutils + gnu inetutils + ...? < 1291131971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is that an actual project? < 1291131983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, HURD's official OS is Debian. < 1291131996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: An actual project by a handful of people to get a GNU OS working. < 1291132001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maintainer is ams. < 1291132008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, sounds lovely. got any links? < 1291132037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/software/packaging/ < 1291132045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also, doesn't Debian GNU/Hurd with a custom package set constitute a GNU System? < 1291132074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Meh, who cares. < 1291132077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms doesn't. < 1291132100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but their project is stillborn! < 1291132102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already exists! sorta < 1291132133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: anyway ams is the worst person ever. < 1291132140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian GNU/Hurd at least works. I wasn't able to build elinks on the last GNU System snapshot... < 1291132157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elinks isn;t a gnu project its fucking EIVL!L!P!! < 1291132169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even gpl? < 1291132186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The worst part is, he is reasonably skilled. He just should not ever be allowed to talk to anyone other than a project maintainer with thick skin... < 1291132189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is GPL. < 1291132200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't say that, I count as a project maintainer. Sorta. < 1291132204 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that i have your undivided attention, let's prove that (n^2, n, 1) designs are resolvable: consider an arbitrary B_i, and x \not\in B_i, then for each y \in B_i there's a unique B_j that contains {x, y}, and for y, z \in B_i these are different. so there are exactly n B_j containing x obtained like this, and n+1 altogether (by a simple calculation), so in fact we can define B_i ~ B_j iff B_i = B_j, or B_i \cap B_j = \empty, and tur < 1291132216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: who does the superunprivileged livecd? < 1291132219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Regarding the project in question, of course. < 1291132223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I don't know. < 1291132233 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so by taking the equivalence classes, we actually get parallel classes < 1291132248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but I am uninterested in anything ams has to say about my program, even if it's a bug report :P < 1291132261 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291132270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he actually told #nixos they should become a gnu project by stopping advertising proprietary software (i.e. having nixpkgs for things) < 1291132279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone just lol'd at him and he brought out the /ignore < 1291132303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: when someone said "sure that'd be cool, only for hosting :P" in reply to ftp.gnu.org, he went on about how it should be about RESPECTING YOUR USERS < 1291132312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: by pretending proprietary software doesn't exist and refusing to help the user use it! < 1291132319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Condescending control is RESPECT. < 1291132327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i'm totally paying attention* < 1291132328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lies < 1291132331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of the few people that he's managed to have a long conversation with online... < 1291132347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The man is such an amazing zealot. < 1291132373 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it an equivalence relation? glad i asked, the reason for transitivity is: let B_i \cap B_j empty, B_j \cap B_k empty (this is the only nontrivial part), then if B_i \cap B_k is nonempty, but B_i != B_k, then any x \in B_i \cap B_k contradicts the property we proved earlier, since x \not\in B_j and therefore a unique B_m contains x but doesn't intersect B_j < 1291132394 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really care if anyone's listening, i just enjoy flooding < 1291132403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the trick, BTW, is to admit that proprietary software is FUNDAMENTALLY HORRIFYING, and you really truly dislike the PAIN AND AGONY of using it.) < 1291132412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what on earth did you talk about? < 1291132414 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of this actually makes sense < 1291132421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At the time, I gave a shit about Hurd. < 1291132428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...why, and how long ago was this < 1291132433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can i go back and murder you at that point < 1291132433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Few years ago. < 1291132436 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-40-200.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291132437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was curious. < 1291132455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if you were curious about the composition of feces would you engage in a conversation with it? :D < 1291132468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At this time, I still believed that GNU wrote absolutely wonderful software. < 1291132494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I just get depressed at how GNU's software is often better than their competition. < 1291132509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Was this around the time when you told me about how wonderful autotools were and I was a horrible person for writing a one-line makefile because it didn't use $(CC) and $(CFLAGS)? < 1291132512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it went something like < 1291132513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo: foo.c < 1291132517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1291132522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cc -O2 $< -o $@ < 1291132528 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurd sounds a bit like Hird < 1291132531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which apparently was an affront against portability :P < 1291132537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is. < 1291132548 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1291132551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Make it this: "foo: foo.c" < 1291132551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because you'd have to run the command manually if your cc doesn't do -O2? < 1291132563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, make's implicit rules have ugly extra spaces in their output < 1291132567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'd have to set CFLAGS anyway ;P < 1291132568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1291132582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let the builder set the CFLAGS. < 1291132587 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can Hird herd Hurd < 1291132606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yes < 1291132617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, because as a distro maintainer i don't feel like figuring out good cflags for every package < 1291132629 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like there's an oklo channel and another channel you ppl are on, and occasionally we exchange pleasantries briefly < 1291132639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (OTOH i do want to force -Os in my distro but i'll figure that out later) < 1291132641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it's great! < 1291132643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's why you choose a sane default. < 1291132644 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference each other's stuff without actually even trying to understand what it's about < 1291132656 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes :D < 1291132659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: cfunge existing is a pretty convincing argument against letting people set CFLAGS :P < 1291132677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And if the package really could use a specific feature it should *append* the flag for that feature to its CFLAGS. < 1291132702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This behavior, incidentally, is what Gentoo damned well relies on. < 1291132747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really? 'cuz every package ever breaks it < 1291132775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small handful of them actually break it, and Gentoo submits patches upstream to fix that. < 1291132809 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-40-200.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291132817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just about everything using autotools or cmake already handles it) < 1291132877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, "CFLAGS='foo' ./configure" not replacing CFLAGS PISSES ME OFF. < 1291132893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yeah, configure is still retarded about it. < 1291132908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only sometimes. < 1291132916 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291132919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yet that is what Gentoo relies on! < 1291132919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the rest of the time, it replaces the CFLAGS *and* sets that in the makefile) < 1291132921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully I hate Gentoo. < 1291132942 0 :nopseudoidea!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291132983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so um inferior-haskell has an INSANELY USEFUL FEATURE i have NEVER noticed before < 1291132992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: get an error sometime, then middle-click the filename in the error < 1291132996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch the file buffer highlight the invalid expression < 1291132997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swoon < 1291133155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does cfunge do with CFLAGS? < 1291133228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Horribly long things. < 1291133240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Why? < 1291133253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We're talking -O3 -funsafe-math -fomit-function-pointer -funroll-loops -fadvanced-maths -fcrazy-maths -fyour-mother-and-a-horse -fit-never-happened -flanguid-squids ... < 1291133277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And because Vorpal thinks that writing a Befunge-98 implementation that focuses on crazy and mostly pointless micro-optimisation instead of useful macro-optimisation constitutes "esoteric". < 1291133293 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, I'm new and I'd like to learn LOLCODE, is there any good tutorial ? < 1291133302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopseudoidea, LOLCODE is the suck. < 1291133327 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for fun. < 1291133335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cannot be called esoteric in even the vaguest sense of the word. < 1291133347 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok. < 1291133352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a bland scripting language with stupid syntax. < 1291133352 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291133356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha the RAGE < 1291133365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopseudoidea: you don't want to learn lolcode, learn Underload! < 1291133398 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thanks, I'll see that < 1291133526 0 :yourpseudo!~nopseudoi@85-168-235-235.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1291133532 0 :yourpseudo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1291133593 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291133635 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291133880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291134229 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1291134392 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello oerjan, did you read my log ramblings? < 1291134401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er not really < 1291134407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were a bit more specific than usually < 1291134424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bestsab rs t = < 1291134424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : second snd . < 1291134424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maximumBy (compare `on` fst `on` snd) . < 1291134424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : catMaybes . < 1291134424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : map (\(Rule lhs rhs) -> (rhs,) `fmap` sab lhs t) $ rs < 1291134425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better! < 1291134499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... if you swap the arguments and drop rs you don't need the $ rs at the end < 1291134543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, indeed < 1291134548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291134559 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's sab < 1291134564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, if I match on VTerms too I can do SPECIALISATION < 1291134568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok:sab :: VTerm -> CTerm -> Maybe (Integer, [Rule]) < 1291134569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sab (VT (Name s)) (CT (Name t)) < 1291134569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | s == t = Just (1, []) < 1291134569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = Nothing < 1291134569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sab (VT (App a b)) (CT (App c d)) = < 1291134569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do (ac, bs1) <- sab a c < 1291134571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (bd, bs2) <- sab b d < 1291134573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (1 + ac + bd, bs1 ++ bs2) < 1291134575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sab (Var s) x = Just (0, [Rule (name s) x]) < 1291134577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: *oklofok: sab < 1291134579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: sab = specificity and bindings < 1291134584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specificity = "how closely does this pattern match this expression" < 1291134589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we rewrite according to the most specific match) < 1291134591 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1291134595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bindings = variable bindings caused by placeholders in the pattern < 1291134610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, if I do all this on VTerms too I can do specialisation :) < 1291134636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, my thing fails on an empty list < 1291134672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a trivial error! < 1291134740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : reference each other's stuff without actually even trying to understand what it's about < 1291134747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait are you on to me or something? < 1291134756 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you do that too < 1291134829 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i tend not to make jokes, i just... say something for the heck of it < 1291134877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to heckle < 1291135184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there? < 1291135191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1291135208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, somewhere _completely_ different < 1291135211 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought about orthogonal persistence and I have a question. < 1291135230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uh oh. uh, i mean, go on./ < 1291135305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, assume for the discussion that the operating system with orthogonal persistence isn't completely bug free. This is probably a reasonable assumption. Further assume that there is a bug that in some way locks the computer up or crashes it, say a logic error in the code to talk to some hardware causing a system freeze. < 1291135318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1291135353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then a normal system can just be rebooted basically (some file system cleanup needed, journaling helps there). But wouldn't orthogonal persistence bring you back to the state just before the crash? Which might cause it to trigger again < 1291135383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making recovery from it somewhat harder. < 1291135414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you deal with such a situation? < 1291135429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, that's a possibility. In that case you'd either want to boot it in such a way that it kills whatever's about to make it crash before anything else, or tell a versioned system to roll back to whatever ago. < 1291135433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are various ways one would solve it. < 1291135451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed there are ways to solve it, which method would you plan < 1291135456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use < 1291135457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1291135467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i dunno, i'd have to see. :p < 1291135478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i knew how to do it all, it'd be done a lot quicker. < 1291135546 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1291135547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the ability to clean out a fucked up state by rebooting is after all a strength of the current paradigm. And even if you can ensure the software is bug free, the hardware might not be < 1291135551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But hey, if we're talking about crash recovery, then anything that doesn't involve a deterministic system crash -- losing power, hardware glitch, etc. -- is instantly recovered to a very recent state, UNLIKE existing systems :P < 1291135552 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoopsies < 1291135554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I get points! < 1291135564 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is a good point yes < 1291135596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Really though, when an OS gets mature enough, bugs that cause a deterministic crash without strange configuration become especially rare. Especially if your kernel is a lot simpler than, say, Linux. < 1291135603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I think I had more crashes linked to software than I had due to power failures or hardware errors. < 1291135609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When was the last system-crashing bug in Mach found? Typical implementations of L4?) < 1291135610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very often graphics drivers. < 1291135623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, there's a formally verified implementation of L4. < 1291135677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you still need to do boot in some sense. Bringing network up, asking for IP over dhcp and so on < 1291135714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, and? < 1291135717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how will you deal with networking there. That you can't persist as easily < 1291135721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: technically that isn't booting at all... < 1291135733 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, you would also be setting video mode and so on < 1291135743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the network controller noticing that the network is down and that it's set to keep the network connected < 1291135746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would, therefore, connect it < 1291135751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1291135782 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the stage where things are loaded into RAM? < 1291135798 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291135807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's part of the low-level code and can be as dirty and impure as it likes < 1291135831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also note that most kernels and drivers are written in C which is a colossally unreliable language :) < 1291135838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in any case, you need to initialise hardware. Set up video modes, DMA mappings, load things into RAM, lots of things like that. < 1291135844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes very true < 1291135854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whereas everything's in a pure functional language here, and there's strong separation of privileges, so one bad driver is unlikely to be able to take the system down < 1291135865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the very low-level OS code and the compiler you have to trust, both written in x86-64 assembly < 1291135885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, you can actually rely on C itself. < 1291135896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, you can rely on any language < 1291135898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you can't rely on is that the programmer will have been sane with it. < 1291135907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "rely on [language]" I of course mean "you can't rely on a typical program in [language]" < 1291135912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, s/typical/almost any/ < 1291135938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also what about hardware changes. How would you deal with that? < 1291135950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "you can't rely on almost anyone to write a decent program in C". < 1291135950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what do you mean, how would I handle it? < 1291135976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you change {graphics card, sound card, network magic, whatever} < 1291135977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, shut down, replace some component, boot up. Something that would change stuff. Such as replacing the monitor with a smaller one. Or replacing the GPU with a completely different one < 1291136030 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl phone < 1291136040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The system will notice -- as it would if you hotplugged a device when the computer is running -- that the hardware configuration state has changed, and act accordingly. < 1291136050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, it will likely unload the existing graphics driver and load a more appropriate one. < 1291136066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the hardware configuration state monitor and act-upon-er would be configurable. < 1291136078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Plugging in a USB stick would cause it to notice and act on it, too.) < 1291136128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would you be able to make a USB stick orthogonal persistable too? < 1291136157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um, maybe. You'd have to tell it what objects you want to persist to it. < 1291136169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you make a namespace corresponding to the device, then anything within that namespace is persisted to it rather than the main hard drive. < 1291136182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I think I might do versioning simply by having everything be immutable; therefore, when you copy a value but change some part of it, that new value gets copied too. :P < 1291136187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except OPTOMIZED.) < 1291136294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you dead set on making this impossible to implement without kidnapping everyone with an IQ of more than 100 and setting them to work on it? < 1291136307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And getting the rest of the population to support that half? < 1291136312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1291136319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: none of this is difficult really < 1291136320 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1291136323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly working around x86-64 being stupid < 1291136336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does that mean you support hot-plugged CPUs too? < 1291136341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The most difficult thing is the language at this point. < 1291136344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specialiser, etc. < 1291136348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't you'd want anyone below 130 touching this ;D < 1291136352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't think < 1291136368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, obviously you couldn't *actually* hot-plug the graphics card; it's just that it'd be treated as *if* it was hotplugged, because that's what the system sees. < 1291136381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotplugged CPUs would probably require support at the lower level -- scheduler, etc. < 1291136395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are systems that support hot plugging CPU and PCI < 1291136412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i know < 1291136418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not overly concerned with implementing them :) < 1291136461 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. those capabilities are not very common < 1291136472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hot plugging SATA is more likely to be supported < 1291136474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than those < 1291136478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even that is rare < 1291136494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that would probably work if you did it to things you're not persisting to < 1291136501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the low-level code doesn't need to know about such drives < 1291136505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though iirc all SATA should in theory be hot-pluggable, but manufactures prefer cutting costs than following standards) < 1291136516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you'd still have to add code to listen to the "hey, SATA changed!" events. < 1291136520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just rescan manually or something :) < 1291136537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: i don't you'd want anyone below 130 touching this ;D < 1291136537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *don't think < 1291136553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I either thank you for your compliment or shake my fists at you for not wanting me to try and implement it :) < 1291136569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your IQ being? < 1291136581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why can't it be both? :D < 1291136601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *or shake my fists at you for not wanting me to try and implement it on account of my below-130 IQ :) < 1291136608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1291136608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1291136613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, relative what year? < 1291136631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how the heck should I know, tests are ridiculously unreliable and moreso for people with more than slightly above-average which I am *fairly* sure I do not come off as sounding egotistical by saying I am. < 1291136636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1291136638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re: your IQ being?) < 1291136647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*above-average intelligence < 1291136694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph this code needs prettifying the shit out of it < 1291136696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technical term) < 1291136697 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw ultimate answer to a question along the lines of "so you think you are better than me?": "My modesty prevent me from confirming it, but my honesty prevent me from denying it" < 1291136709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I prefer "Yes." < 1291136714 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1291136742 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did the iq test on mensa's page, every question was trivial and apparently the test only measures up to like 16X < 1291136929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: < 1291136929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case catMaybes . map (\(Rule lhs rhs) -> (rhs,) `fmap` sab lhs t) $ rs of < 1291136930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> Nothing < 1291136930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rws -> second snd . maximumBy (compare `on` fst `on` snd) $ rws < 1291136932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why type error < 1291136935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Maybe (CTerm, [Rule])' < 1291136935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(CTerm, [Rule])' < 1291136935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: < 1291136935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : second snd . maximumBy (compare `on` fst `on` snd) $ rws < 1291136941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is my ghc-explain(1) < 1291136970 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291137012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case i picked 130 sort of out of thin air, it's just i doubt any regulars here are anywhere near as low as 100 < 1291137089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course IQ doesn't exactly denote intelligence... < 1291137097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I meant everyone in the world, not just here. < 1291137107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a pathetic development team for @. < 1291137110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: second whatever always returns a tuple, not a Maybe? < 1291137122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless you use a different Arrow < 1291137129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OH DUH YES I need Just $ < 1291137129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1291137132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Just . < 1291137144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wanna rewrite that function to not be hideous? :P < 1291137196 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291137199 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho ho ho < 1291137208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oh oh < 1291137218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga is secretly santa < 1291137227 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very secret of him < 1291137234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's two swaps away from satan! < 1291137238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he certainly blew it there < 1291137245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip nooga around twice and he becomes satan < 1291137269 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga in the land of puns < 1291137286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess we could call oerjan raPUNzel... < 1291137289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs madly away from the swatter < 1291137311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well indeed, and my _real_ point was that an average person (100) wouldn't be able to understand a thing of this < 1291137323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't think that's *necessarily* true < 1291137333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it depends how much you correlate IQ with this kind of abstract reasoning < 1291137335 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, but they'd be able to do the menial work! < 1291137341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws his swatter after elliott, mjolner style -----### < 1291137356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would you correlate being able to fill in the box in http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/RavenMatrix.gif with any kind of abstract reasoning capability? < 1291137369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1291137370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with any kind < 1291137371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with this kind < 1291137378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ignoring the fact that that one is REALLY trivial :) < 1291137390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even bothering to click that link < 1291137403 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1291137404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why not < 1291137410 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a hard puzzle < 1291137422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well then < 1291137434 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally i've got something to do in the evening < 1291137461 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i can give you a hint < 1291137487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well rotating 90 degrees isn't exactly hard, no < 1291137503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well he certainly blew it there <-- except that was a red herring < 1291137507 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very clever such < 1291137507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny, i saw it as the dot making it way clockwise around the shape < 1291137509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the shape rotating < 1291137527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i thought santa had a red-nosed reindeer, not a herring < 1291137548 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: same < 1291137559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SANTA THE RED NOSED REINDEER HAD A VERY SHINY BLAH < 1291137561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course there are alternative ways of seeing it. < 1291137562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1291137572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh my rewrite function is gonna be pain < 1291137574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pain and anguish < 1291137575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my life < 1291137586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're really lucky you see an alternative that the test maker didn't think of < 1291137599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE THIS PROGRAM oerjan can you write a term rewriter for me < 1291137607 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just obtained 12 SPARC IIe blade workstations  < 1291137614 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 500 eur < 1291137624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: can i have one < 1291137627 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1291137645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: pretty please? < 1291137673 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-89.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1291137847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so do you want to help write the SPECIALISER < 1291137867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's currying + optimisation in this context, yes? < 1291137891 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term rewriters are trivial to write < 1291137898 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being silly < 1291137905 0 :zeotrope!~zeo@unaffiliated/zeotrope JOIN :#esoteric < 1291137909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: they are but i'm doing it in haskell < 1291137913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: and it has become amazingly ugly :D < 1291137916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uhh. sort of. < 1291137920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a LOT more involved than that :) < 1291137931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but yes, essentially. < 1291137938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: except don't call it currying < 1291137940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's partial application < 1291137941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. the same. thing. < 1291137945 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it happens < 1291137955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. First-class code, for one thing. And not really currying. < 1291137965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the difference < 1291137978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry : ((a, b) -> c) -> (a -> b -> c) < 1291137994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turning an N (say N=2) parameter function into a 1 parameter function returning a 1 parameter function, etc. < 1291138002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... < 1291138006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partially applying f (an N-argument function) to x is (curry f) x < 1291138015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you don't usually curry all functions, which you do in haskell :) < 1291138033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just currying and applying, then? < 1291138094 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, they're ALL MINE! < 1291138154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: i thought santa had a red-nosed reindeer, not a herring <-- that is an urban myth < 1291138159 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying term rewriting is "just currying"? < 1291138168 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term rewriting is much simpler than currying < 1291138177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no < 1291138178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* nooga just obtained 12 SPARC IIe blade workstations <-- why? < 1291138180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: we're takling about specialisers < 1291138180 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1291138183 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291138202 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use an existing one as a base? < 1291138202 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i haven't looked that word up yet, but you've been talking about that stuff for quite a while now < 1291138204 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for fun, never did anything on SPARC < 1291138208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that much i've notived < 1291138210 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*noticed < 1291138210 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides < 1291138219 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc there is one that works on yhc core < 1291138222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's something like *one* actually-existing specialiser that does something useful when applied to itself that i know of < 1291138228 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wouldn't like a cluster at home < 1291138232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? which one? < 1291138234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, yhc is rather experimental. that may be good. ideally you do it at a higher-level < 1291138239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, one in some thesis or book or something, I forget < 1291138240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a whole group worked on it < 1291138247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1291138253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if it isn't written in MyMagicLanguage I can't use it for obvious reasosn < 1291138254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not the yhc one then? < 1291138255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reasons < 1291138259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I implemented that language < 1291138264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has to apply to MyMagicLanguage programs < 1291138266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that i know of < 1291138266 0 :nopseudoidea!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1291138272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1291138285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the environment variable PKGROOT points to, say, /var/pkg, where all package information is stored < 1291138289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what environment variable should point to /? < 1291138291 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes: terminus font is too small to read at 9pt < 1291138293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the path to install packages to# < 1291138295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#$// < 1291138301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ROOT? < 1291138316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not specific enough, it's only for the package manager < 1291138321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should probably start with PKG < 1291138326 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MyMagicLanguage? < 1291138336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it will have a name, it just doesn't yet. < 1291138341 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah well. SYSTEM_INSTALL_ROOT_FOR_PACKAGE_MANAGER_PURPOSES_WHY_ALL_CAPS? < 1291138346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this will be used to install the core system too, so WHATEVERITSCALLED=/mnt/sys < 1291138367 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see my suggestion < 1291138377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1291138386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsCWiBMcJlk this will help codu.js or whatever :P < 1291138388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1291138392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no :P < 1291138467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe I should rename PKGROOT and make PKGROOT=/ < 1291138477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGDIR? no, that should be the directory of a single package < 1291138488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGINSTALL? seems more like an action than a variable < 1291138615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm what are the valid char set of an env var name? < 1291138624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it anything except \0 and = ? < 1291138646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whatever your suggestion would be, I reject it :P < 1291138707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: = appears to be valid < 1291138715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env ==x | tail -n 1 < 1291138715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==x < 1291138721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env ===x | tail -n 1 < 1291138721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===x < 1291138722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that's < 1291138723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := = x < 1291138724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1291138727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := = =x < 1291138732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even < 1291138733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' = x < 1291138737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1291138738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' = =x < 1291138741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inded < 1291138742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*indeed < 1291138743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do =x < 1291138753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env ==x =x | grep ^= < 1291138754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=x < 1291138755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1291138761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's empty string equals x there < 1291138764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows then < 1291138765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway what < 1291138775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That video is spectacularly unclear about what StackedVM actually /is/ < 1291138823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's because it's in another blog post :P < 1291138834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: tl;dr it runs VMs on server-side and presents them to the web-browser client via unicorns. < 1291138860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmm. < 1291138863 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's boring. < 1291138867 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boringly boring. < 1291138934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I said "perhaps maybe sort of useful", not "interesting". < 1291138979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it doesn't revolutionize computing as we know it even as it reinvents it, I just don't care *shrugs* < 1291139008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I did say in the context of js.codu.org < 1291139012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Since you talked about using browsershots < 1291139013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So stfu :P < 1291139021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, SOUNDS LIKE YOU'D LIKE @ < 1291139121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is perfect in every way, the only downside is this universe does not have room for enough intelligence to actually develop it. < 1291139140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to sum up the gist of our recent discussion. < 1291139151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOSE < 1291139194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you like purely functional programming languages?! No, I mean, do you REALLY like purely functional programming languages?! Do you like orthogonal persistence?! In a very SPECIAL way?!?! DO YOU LIKE DISTRIBUTED OBJECT SPACES????? < 1291139315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do...do you like warm, fluffy blankets? < 1291139406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: anyway what < 1291139407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1291139435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :megawhats < 1291139446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: jiggawhat < 1291139495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever. Have to leave now. < 1291139495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1291139578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once again Vorpal leaves, thinking "why do i hang around with these maniacs?" < 1291139653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so so name my environment variable! < 1291139672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$EDWIN < 1291139703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're such a schemer. < 1291139838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know Edwin was a scheme name < 1291139947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's MIT Scheme's Emacs clone < 1291139953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1291139963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was joking < 1291139993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL BY A REMARKABLE COINCIDENCE... < 1291140045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies in Minecraft < 1291140085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy Australian mailman reminders day! < 1291140108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he'll get a reminder this time < 1291140118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you too! happy tell me what to name my environment variable day! < 1291140130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGINSTALLROOT < 1291140135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ew < 1291140146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sense of aesthetics is different from yours < 1291140153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok then, rename the variable that points to /var/pkg, assuming PKGROOT is the one that usually points to / < 1291140154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291140174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGLASLAMUJTDEC < 1291140228 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-11.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291140325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 refuses to take my delectable bait < 1291140327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bait! < 1291140446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :width baited bread < 1291140483 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291140645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so what would YOU call an environment variable pointing to the package "database" < 1291140647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not database really < 1291140648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hierarchy < 1291140735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is either away or refuses to succumb to my INTERESTING QUESTIONS < 1291141028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGPKG < 1291141156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PKGDIR? PKGDB? PKG...what? < 1291141187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGYODAWG < 1291141198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGFURBALLS < 1291141210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure what constitutes a furball yet, since my system is so strange. :p < 1291141296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you're on the ball < 1291141315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, balls. < 1291141373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obols < 1291141384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oballisk. < 1291141415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, YOU name my variable. < 1291141427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it for? < 1291141434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Either: Given PKGROOT=/var/pkg being typical, i.e. the package files and the like, name a variable usually set to / -- where packages get installed. < 1291141436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or: < 1291141453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Given PKGROOT=/ being typical, i.e. where packages get installed, name a variable usually set to /var/pkg -- where the package information files are. < 1291141455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm open to either. < 1291141457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGINSTALL? < 1291141473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, but that seems more like an action than something you'd set. < 1291141475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any other ideas? < 1291141514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGINSTLOC? < 1291141528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ew./ < 1291141530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1291141531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1291141557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any non-ews? :P < 1291141571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGINF for the second suggestion? < 1291141694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ew. < 1291141704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, it's not just info; the actual .tars and stuff are there too. < 1291141740 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1291141838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think "PKGINSTALL" is best; it makes clear that this is where stuff is installed. < 1291141860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: true, but on the other hand, PKGROOT sounds like it points to the *root* directory < 1291141879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am willing to consider PKGROOT=/ and PKGDIR=/var/pkg < 1291141922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also works. < 1291141944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WELL DON'T LEAVE ME HANGIN' HEAR WHICH < 1291141955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGINSTALL=/ and PKGROOT=/var/pkg < 1291141955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1291141959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PKGROOT=/ and PKGDIR=/var/pkg < 1291141969 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter. < 1291141993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now tell me what to call my local pkgdir variable, which denotes a path like /var/pkg/emacs. < 1291142033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The directory corresponding to a given package? < 1291142058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1291142089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then, the former suggestion with PKGDIR=/var/pkg/foo < 1291142112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *pkgdir= < 1291142116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is *only* used in my script. < 1291142121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A user would never set it; it is a local variable. < 1291142125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that having pkgdir=$PKGDIR/emacs is STUPID. < 1291142140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that makes it simpler. Make it "package". < 1291142155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And preserve the latter system. < 1291142169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But $pkg is the name of the package! < 1291142177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could say pkgname, sure... but ew. < 1291142188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess pkgname=$PKGROOT/$pkg makes sense. < 1291142190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1291142192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1291142196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkg=$PKGROOT/$pkgname makes sense. < 1291142197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkgpath? < 1291142198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But arguably, < 1291142201 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://theendisnear.no-ip.info/ < 1291142204 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED2.0 < 1291142205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkg=$PKGDIR/$pkgname makes even more sense :P < 1291142233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: does it explode? is it quantum? < 1291142235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a dynamo? < 1291142245 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a name < 1291142247 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1291142273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Thanks to nooga for constructive criticism, his ideas and being a constant annoyance. --http://theendisnear.no-ip.info/ < 1291142287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lol HackEgo < 1291142289 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1291142309 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :265|Thanks to nooga for constructive criticism, his ideas and being a constant annoyance. --http://theendisnear.no-ip.info/ < 1291142373 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to make minicom to work in some kind of non-interactive mode < 1291142393 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because minicom is soooo not KISS compliant < 1291142502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yeah i can't get it to send a file with this silly interface < 1291142519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has that run-a-script option, I think that's as far as it goes re non-interactive. < 1291142727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you only want to send a file, maybe the sz program (or rather, sx, but I think sz is how you find it) would be more appropriate; possibly with some small wrapper for the "l" command or whatevur. < 1291142788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wanna VOTE?? < 1291142827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PKGINSTALL=/ and PKGROOT=/var/pkg and pkgdir=$PKGROOT/$pkg < 1291142828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: -or- < 1291142828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PKGROOT=/ and PKGDIR=/var/pkg and pkg=$PKGROOT/$pkgname < 1291142834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so terrible at this. < 1291142938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unsure. Maybe I'd vote for the first opinion, but can't be sure. < 1291142954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Your indecision is palatable. < 1291143047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You know, democracy is not voluntary in my world! < 1291143057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, it is. But only if you really, really want it to be. < 1291143060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would make me sad.) < 1291143080 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291143085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any attempt to force us to make decisions will just lead to a revolution < 1291143114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : once again Vorpal leaves, thinking "why do i hang around with these maniacs?" <-- that too. but in this case it wasn't that. It was just I had a piano lesson < 1291143119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that* < 1291143128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read as pano lesson, decided Vorpal's panorama crap had gone TOO FAR < 1291143136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah :P < 1291143174 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually panoramas are not crap. They are fun to make. And that is the important thing for a hobby < 1291143190 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291143196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so any info on the minecraft update of today? < 1291143251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's made of puppies and they kill you if you don't exist* < 1291143252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*factual < 1291143281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[edit] Server 0.2.6_01 no longer gives everyone 64 snowballs on connecting" < 1291143282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1291143286 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck did that happen < 1291143310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, doesn't java have some way to do #ifdef DEBUG < 1291143315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he isn't testing release builds < 1291143318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:pano is approximately en:fuck, in the "sex act" sense. (Simplified a bit here; and it also means the act that's the opposite of withdrawal to a bank account, can't quite catch the word for that.) < 1291143326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, doesn't java have some way to do #ifdef DEBUG < 1291143330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's called if (app.debug) < 1291143334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where debug is static final constant, IIRC < 1291143338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's guaranteed to be optimised out < 1291143342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wtf :P < 1291143344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Deposit < 1291143350 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1291143352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thank you. < 1291143352 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was AFK < 1291143354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1291143357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Please tell me the deposit usage is common. < 1291143366 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sz you say? < 1291143367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And then I made a [fi:pano] in her account, if you know what I mean." < 1291143368 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also "to put" in general. < 1291143378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1291143385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[Server 0.2.6_02 and client 1.2.4_01 now spawn other monsters than ONLY CREEPERS EVERYWHERE]] < 1291143392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notch is the worst programmer ever. < 1291143401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sadly there are way worse < 1291143406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Part of lrzsz. It just speaks zmodem/xmodem/ymodem to stdout, so it'd need some wrapping-around. < 1291143414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he is sure better than quite a few on dailywtf < 1291143418 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1291143421 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1291143425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: [[* Fixed minecarts (and pigs!) moving twice as fast as they should when ridden.]] < 1291143426 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading man < 1291143427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :-( < 1291143445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. Might need to add boosters then. You provide track. for that if needed < 1291143450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION updates sadly < 1291143452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway have ineiros updated or not? < 1291143453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what? why?! < 1291143457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why do i have to provide track < 1291143470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm low on iron :P < 1291143475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am i < 1291143505 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway: server must be upgraded too. Protocol changes. < 1291143514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-11-30 13:52:29 [SEVERE] Unexpected exception < 1291143514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.lang.NullPointerException < 1291143515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--server, apparently < 1291143517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of 3 minutes ago < 1291143518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iron deficiency is no laughing matter < 1291143520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in the new server) < 1291143523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I heard, the good old "duplicate items end up in the last inventory slot" was a buffer overflow type of bug, which is not too shabby in Java. < 1291143565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I can donate another dozen iron blocks later, I guess. Can't quite recall how much I have left. < 1291143571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh gawd, he re-obfuscated the code. < 1291143575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP BEING SUCH A DICKWAD NOTCH < 1291143589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either (1) start coding properly or (2) stop forcing updates and constantly obfuscating the code. < 1291143600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1291143624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Y'see, he FROWNS on unauthorized modcraftery. < 1291143646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I frown on getting a buffer overflow in fucking Java. < 1291143652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And somehow spawning only creepers. < 1291143658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... and every damn bug, they're all so trivial and stupid. < 1291143682 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1291143731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might've been something like the hand-inventory and inventory being different parts of the same array and then getting confused about indices. < 1291143757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, why can't I decide on these names. < 1291143793 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java < * < 1291143866 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's notch? < 1291143891 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1291143925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, Minecraft's developer. < 1291143947 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main guy? < 1291144006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only guy, really. < 1291144019 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I TOLD YOU HE'S A MORON < 1291144044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twould appear that computer hacker from Glasgow being extradited was a complete nutcase. < 1291144061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of those UFO, free energy idiots. < 1291144095 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291144104 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love free energy enthusiasts < 1291144108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why extradited? < 1291144118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: he's not a moron, he's just a bad coder. < 1291144127 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you < 1291144133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he seems to have thought the most logical course of action under these circumstances was to hack into NASA and military computers looking for evidence of UFOs. < 1291144135 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me grep the logs < 1291144138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: oh, fuck off with your stupid crap about minecraft. < 1291144140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's a bit hazy. < 1291144141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fully recall what you said. < 1291144161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :D awesome < 1291144162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US claim he destroyed several systems; he denies this thoroughly. < 1291144227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not stupid crap, it's just that the author can't design and code properly and he dares to sell it < 1291144243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dares" < 1291144247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: people can sell WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT. < 1291144252 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1291144258 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why ppl buy that?! < 1291144259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as "design" goes, his game is certainly well-designed and the graphics are lovely. < 1291144267 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1291144270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as code goes, yes he does a lot of stupid things, but it's still a fucking good game. < 1291144273 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so called coder < 1291144277 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coder's graphics < 1291144279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1291144290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you *really* have not grasped the difference between retro and bad < 1291144303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: do you hear a chiptune and think "oh, not skilled enough to make proper electronic music"? < 1291144319 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i can't draw and model basic shapes in 3d so i will build my game out of f*## bricks and noise" < 1291144331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: IT WAS A CONSCIOUS DESIGN DECISION YOU MORON < 1291144334 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not retro < 1291144337 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just bad < 1291144341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1291144342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's retro. < 1291144343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck off. < 1291144344 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out few retro games < 1291144354 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from amiga system < 1291144361 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's goddamn ART < 1291144365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, just shut the hell up. < 1291144369 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1291144373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game would *not* be better with a different art style. < 1291144375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like it less. < 1291144377 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- constant annoyance < 1291144379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would everyone else who plays it. < 1291144426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: coder art would be solid colours in place of blocks. < 1291144429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blocks have actual design. < 1291144436 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made of noise < 1291144479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever actually seen or played minecraft < 1291144494 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1291144510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it. < 1291144641 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@32.167.92.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291144683 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181135029.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1291144752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, when will you update the server? < 1291144807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did it ask you for upgrade on login or? < 1291144824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it didn't < 1291144829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: server is now inaccessible, deal with it < 1291144841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah I don't have time for it today anyway < 1291144844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also how on earth do I fill in "Authors:" for the original vi < 1291144863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bill Joy, ................................decades of history................................, Gunnar Ritter (modernised it) < 1291144869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1291144874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1291144876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1291144876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm packaging the original vi < 1291144881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to have an authors file < 1291144883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is problematic :D < 1291144897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might omit the authors file ... but who knows how that is, license-wise < 1291144898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does debian do? < 1291144914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't think it packages it, but I also don't think it has authors < 1291144918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vim package doesn't < 1291144925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1291144945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if debian doesn't have it then it probably is legally okay for at least some of those packages < 1291144953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think I'm already violating licenses; I'm pretty sure that even with BSD, I have to include the license with the author names on any system that installs the program :/ < 1291144973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I don't care about legal, for crediting the authors. < 1291144981 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291144994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case I just want the most "respectful" way, which I think is to omit the authors altogether. < 1291145002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah AUTHORS probably needs to go in doc < 1291145039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the description I can say "Bill Joy's editor of infamy. Updated for modern Unix systems by Gunnar Ritter, based on Caldera's release of the code." < 1291145254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Some historic comments: < 1291145254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1291145254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Ex is very large - this version will not fit on PDP-11's without overlay < 1291145254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# software. Things that can be turned off to save < 1291145254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# space include LISPCODE (-l flag, showmatch and lisp options), CHDIR (the < 1291145255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# previously undocumented chdir command.) < 1291145258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1291145318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh < 1291145318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set -e < 1291145318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd ex-050325 < 1291145318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make install PREFIX=/ DESTDIR="$1" < 1291145320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a bad build script! < 1291145326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate how set -e isn't default for non-interactive shells... < 1291145423 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he < 1291145528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: what < 1291145756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you're a shell guy - after {cd foo; ...}, with {}s, is the dir back to normal? < 1291145761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. does a block scope directory changes too? < 1291145765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, () will work, right? < 1291145768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's a subshell < 1291145820 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, () will work, {} will not < 1291145824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just use () then < 1291145830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't use pushd/popd, I'm being all portable :) < 1291145843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it would have taken 1/3 of the time to test this :P < 1291145852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but 1000% of the effort < 1291145856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no < 1291145859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1291145863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am extremely lazy, and typing is very easy. < 1291145867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you had to write the same thing here on IRC < 1291145870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, even more < 1291145877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i'd have had to start sh < 1291145881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is IMPOSSIBLE. < 1291145892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: /usr/ucb/install: Command not found < 1291145892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [install-man] Error 127 < 1291145892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar: Removing leading `/' from member names < 1291145896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to stop after that, stupid < 1291145896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291145900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subshell exit != shell exit :D < 1291145904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds || exit $? after the ) < 1291145988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in a shell, to do atexit I should use trap, right? < 1291146054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1291146062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar actually created a "." directory in my resulting archive < 1291146063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i did < 1291146068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar cf blah.tar . < 1291146101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, trap yes but don't depend on it being very reliable. ctrl-c twice fast can mess it up iirc < 1291146110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it's just to clean up a temporary dir < 1291146112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing important < 1291146114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also it is on signal < 1291146118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not on normal exit iirc < 1291146131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are you writing in shell script? < 1291146134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm right I do "exit 1" a lot < 1291146142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my package manager, out of sheer laziness :) it doesn't do much, so that's okay < 1291146148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1291146150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, it's pkgbuild(1), which takes the name of a package and builds the source < 1291146163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd prefer to be using rc, but shipping rc with every system sounds a bit silly. < 1291146180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are things you could do by yourself really anyway. My package management system is stupidly simple. < 1291146192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about a high level language that gives small binaries? < 1291146212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: go on < 1291146222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm waiiiitiiiiing < 1291146227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, surely that exists? < 1291146233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I started writing these tools in C, but they were REALLY HUGE AND TEDIOUS. < 1291146246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, C isn't very high level < 1291146255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My C pkginfo was like 100 lines and it barely did anything; my nice, featured pkginfo in shell is 75 lines. < 1291146269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't you refuse interpreted languages? < 1291146274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and shell script is interpreted < 1291146282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but no system is without /bin/sh. < 1291146286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of systems are without python :P < 1291146290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if sh breaks? < 1291146301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: then you're fucked. grab a livecd and fix it. < 1291146307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: if sh breaks you are always fucked. < 1291146324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (if sh is broken, what are you typing into?) < 1291146326 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same for . Probably not perl or such. awk sounds like a better choice < 1291146329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (if it's anything like a shell, use it to fix sh.) < 1291146345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk? awk is horrible for actual programming tasks < 1291146351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never read a file with it and i doubt i ever will < 1291146354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was joking < 1291146357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it's even possible portably :P < 1291146413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, writing a nice scripting language, presumably a DSL. Then use that < 1291146434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't *know* of any nice languages for unix apart from c, rc and haskell < 1291146439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've rejected C for good reasons < 1291146454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc is lovely but a bit awkward outside of plan 9 and its toolset, and I don't want to ship it on every system < 1291146456 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, go? < 1291146462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc's executables are large when linked statically < 1291146476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we've had this conversation before. go doesn't really make simple file options and the like convenient, which is what I'm doing < 1291146482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I need to shell out to use tar and everything *already* < 1291146502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkginstall is literally: < 1291146511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- install every runtime dependency < 1291146517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- unpack tar to / < 1291146521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- touch (pkg)/installed < 1291146548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so not ghc yeah < 1291146565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: non-ghc haskell implementations are always behind ghc :P < 1291146666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1291146675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "set -e" equivalent to passing -e to sh? < 1291146676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that standard? < 1291146693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's Bourne. < 1291146715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough for me < 1291146719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh -e < 1291146719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd ex-050325 < 1291146719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make install INSTALL=install PREFIX=/ DESTDIR="$1" < 1291146722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that for a build script < 1291146723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291146791 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1291146836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So how does one do "tar cf foo.tar ." without getting a directory called . in the tar? < 1291146841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TELL ME WISE MAN < 1291146949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DON'T DO TARBOMBS < 1291147010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tar cf foo.tar *" assuming sensible names in the directory? < 1291147017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: THEY'RE PACKAGES, THEY EXTRACT TO THE ROOT DIRECTORY, STOOPID < 1291147023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you need every single feature ghc provides? < 1291147029 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in your package manager < 1291147055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tar cf foo.tar -- *" if you dislike that assumption. < 1291147062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I only know ghc, I don't feel like working out the differences between ghc and $other in my programs, and nobody really uses non-ghc so they're stagnating. < 1291147067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still, dotfiles. < 1291147073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Dotfiles at / are a bit... though.) < 1291147076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably it is mostly missing features? < 1291147092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: pikhq: How about "tar cf foo.tar -- $(ls -A)", you sillys :P < 1291147111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although that fails with FILENAMES WITH SPACES IN /) < 1291147142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, but surely bugs too. < 1291147158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I don't want to write them in Haskell because they're the closest thing to obvious shell scripts you can get. < 1291147159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if they are packages that extract to / where do you put post-install scripts or metadata? < 1291147167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In the package directory. < 1291147176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1291147177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls < 1291147177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build description source.tar version website < 1291147179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291147180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build is the build script. < 1291147184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other such scripts would go in there too. < 1291147185 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but what about binary packages? < 1291147189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a binary package, it's root.tar. < 1291147191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Every system has this. < 1291147194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like apt's information database. < 1291147212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just not every system will have source.tar. < 1291147216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or want to. < 1291147218 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure but how can you be sure that is in sync with the binary package? < 1291147247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because the installation program gets the binary package by (1) noting in a package manager file that the file pkgname/root.tar is to be downloaded and (2) synchronising the database. < 1291147265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will pull down the new binary package from the server and also update the information and binary packages of the other software. < 1291147272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will then install the new updates. < 1291147290 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291147294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't be arsed to do advanced versioned dependencies, so I just don't bother; there's no real reason to hold back a package. You can't even really do this on Debian because everything fucks up when you try and hold an upgrade back.) < 1291147296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about offline package sources? < 1291147302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, such as offline install cd < 1291147309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you have issues getting network to work or such) < 1291147312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's probably just going to be rsync. < 1291147312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: tar --null -T <(find . -maxdepth 0 -name '*' -print0) -cf foo.tar < 1291147315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, uh, you know what to do. < 1291147330 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1291147331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so very GNU, but uses one of the less objectionable features) < 1291147333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't believe in filenames with newlines in them, so I find -print0 pointless. < 1291147344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "-name '*'" actually do anything? < 1291147348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just tell it to use /mnt/cd as a source. It does, after all, just use rsync. < 1291147360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Matches any file. < 1291147367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you write your own package, you just include source.tar in the package directory and it all works. < 1291147374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So does "". < 1291147376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but does it *do* anything. < 1291147381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, personally I find binary packages should be self-contained. More robust against mismatches. < 1291147382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait, yeah, you don't need that test. < 1291147390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Define self-contained. < 1291147391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -maxdepth 0 -print0 < 1291147393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1291147400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *-print; I don't believe in filenames with newlines in them. < 1291147403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are a bug. < 1291147422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And . is redundant. < 1291147422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe in filenames containing any valid Unicode string. < 1291147426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thus "find -maxdepth 0". < 1291147430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "given this one file it contains everything needed to install the package in a safe way, such as dependency information and so on. < 1291147443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't; Unix sucks, let's not ruin it by ending the line-based tradition. < 1291147443 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1291147452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one of the few useful things about Unix, and it's what lets grep(1) work. < 1291147456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NULL TERMINATE EVERYTHING < 1291147459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ah... so you like static linking. < 1291147459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .deb, are self-contained like that. So are .rpm. And all the other formats I know of < 1291147464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EV RY THING < 1291147470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What about filenames with zeroes in them? < 1291147472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes sure. But there are other deps than .so < 1291147475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And you want every dependency included too. < 1291147476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, "find -maxdepth 0" just prints out ".". < 1291147480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually not valid. < 1291147480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So a .deb should include all its dependencies. < 1291147481 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, data, running app < 1291147483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: -maxdepth 1 < 1291147485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, it sounds to me like you'd get the ./ with find there. < 1291147494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: U+0 and / are reserved. < 1291147501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is enough to include information on *what it needs* so you can't mess up by installing conflicting versions. < 1291147513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you read my line I said "dependency information" < 1291147518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "dependencies" < 1291147522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also "find -maxdepth 1" will print out both the "." and it's files as "./foo".) < 1291147532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it is completely impossible to install a binary package without the package information. < 1291147537 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1291147544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A "binary package" consists, then, of the directory in /var/pkg. < 1291147544 0 :zeotrope!~zeo@bas3-kitchener06-1128713831.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1291147548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You just include root.tar in there. < 1291147550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the contents of /. < 1291147556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That includes dependency information and all. < 1291147559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if foo is installed and depends on bar-1.0 and you downloaded bar-2.0 by hand to install it *something should complain* < 1291147562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is my point < 1291147570 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest20753 < 1291147578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's your own stupid fault. < 1291147605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do more for you than Slackware; I don't treat you like an idiot. < 1291147615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do stupid things your system will break. That applies to Debian too. < 1291147629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that I said stupid, as in wilfully stupid. < 1291147636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how so? it is a perfectly valid action. I had to download a .deb a few days ago on a windows computer then copy it to my laptop when the wlan at university was down. < 1291147668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, that is not a problem... almost every dependency of that type is a library. < 1291147672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I got the url on my laptop, put it in a file on a usb stick, downloaded it on a public computer there to the usb stick, then copied it back. < 1291147681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% of packages will have absolutely zero runtime dependencies. < 1291147682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The same issue can easily happen on Debian. < 1291147687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You are very confused about how my system works. < 1291147688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not all. "I'm a script and I need python" < 1291147695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, dpkg is completely dumb. < 1291147705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so you installed Python 3 over Python 2? < 1291147705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1291147710 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is why I copied to /var/cache/apt/archive :P < 1291147730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no :P But just saying that there are *lots of deps that aren't library ones* < 1291147742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not "*lots*"; some. < 1291147745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even quite a lot. < 1291147748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not "*lots*". < 1291147761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond the basic script interpreters, there's not many at all. < 1291147764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, there are more library ones < 1291147788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? "I'm this fancy daemon and I need dbus"? < 1291147821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Let me put it another way: there may be many packages that depend on a non-library. But there are not many non-library packages that are depended on at all. < 1291147828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreters, dbus, a few others. < 1291147849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm this plugin for foo, I need foo." (Admittedly only for rather large foos.) < 1291147872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's not really very many of those. < 1291147875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: I don't follow the discussion.) < 1291147876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stuff will depend on X too. < 1291147884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, it will depend on libX11. < 1291147893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Protip: Try and install an X package sometime. Note how it does not try and install an X server. < 1291147903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some files in /etc and /share and stuff, but that can all go in one package. < 1291147913 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I admit that the non-library deps will be reduced if you don't do crazy package-splitting like debian and ubuntu < 1291147922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm this firefox, I depend on lsb-release, psmisc, debianutils, fontconfig; which aren't strictly speaking libraries. (Disclaimer: I still haven't bothered to find out the context, and won't.) < 1291147943 0 :aliaroush!~garyani1@41.254.1.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291147949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lsb-release? why < 1291147961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue at all. < 1291147962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psmisc I don't remember what that is < 1291147967 0 :Guest20753!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291147972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fuser, killall, peekfd, pstree, prtstat. < 1291147979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lsb-release is... not going to be included because I very much doubt I comply with LSB anyway. < 1291147979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1291147988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: psmisc, sure. debianutils, I'm not Debian. < 1291147990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fontconfig, sure. < 1291147995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, {psmisc, fontconfig}. < 1291147997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably related to some of the startup scripts there. < 1291148006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also isn't fontconfig a library? I forget < 1291148007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why it wants debianutils? < 1291148016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because debian patch everything :P < 1291148026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I seem to remember having debianutils on gentoo, got installed shortly before I switched away < 1291148048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rxvt-unicode and I need base-passwd, I'd like ttf-dejavu. (I guess "font" might be considered a "library".) < 1291148049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc just one or two things from it < 1291148055 0 :zeotrope_!~zeo@bas3-kitchener06-1096648968.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1291148068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Library in this case is an .a, that is not a dependency because it gets statically linked in. < 1291148081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, base-passwd? uh. Isn't that just /etc/passwd? < 1291148084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way am I going to have recommended packages, that's just stupid. And rxvt-unicode hardly depends on ttf-dejavu in the slightest. < 1291148097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base-passwd, if it really is that, isn't a package; you can just assume that exists because it sure better :P < 1291148112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a bit of a weird package. < 1291148113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about ldap-based login? < 1291148119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These are the canonical master copies of the user database files (/etc/passwd and /etc/group), containing the Debian-allocated user and group IDs." < 1291148124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or kerberos? < 1291148141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: At that point, I crush your skull and burn the remains. < 1291148151 0 :aliaroush!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291148163 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll surely package it then < 1291148174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have fun with that! < 1291148189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, note: I'm too lazy to actually it < 1291148191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if you can get old channels dropped, like names? < 1291148193 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually do it* < 1291148195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You accidentally the verb. < 1291148209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I corrected it before you replied < 1291148242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't change the fact that you accidentally it. < 1291148248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm cron and I depend on adduser, debianutils (again), lsb-base (well, no LSB) and upstart-job. I'm cryptsetup and I need dmsetup, initramfs-tools, plymouth (what *is* that? some splash thing?) and yet again upstart-job. (Sorry, sorry, I just got sidetracked looking at these.) < 1291148319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plymouth is... yes, some splash screen. What. < 1291148334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see your insane cron and raise you a http://www.pell.portland.or.us/~orc/Code/cron/ < 1291148357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The libraries ought to be a bit more than just the .a. < 1291148364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pkgconfig file too. :P < 1291148369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, cryptsetup depends on device mapper yes < 1291148380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm going to play a game. It's called "how long can I avoid pkg-config?". < 1291148384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why does cryptsetup depend on a boot-up splash screen? < 1291148389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you hate pkg-config? < 1291148390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Besides, even then you only need it if you're building something that depends on it.) < 1291148393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The alternative is libtool. < 1291148396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't, I can just do without it :P < 1291148412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you prefer /usr/bin/-config? < 1291148413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The length of time I can avoid it is probably something like 3 minutes, but I'm sure as hell gonna try anyway. < 1291148424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which just clutter tab-completing namespace < 1291148428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I just actively hate software developers and everything they create for making my life horrible. < 1291148430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With static linking, you *need need need* pkgconfig. < 1291148432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, /dev/bin :P < 1291148444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also how is pkg-config horrible? < 1291148448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK ABOUT PKG-CONFIG < 1291148455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER ONCE SAID IT WAS HORRIBLE JUST SHUT UP >_< < 1291148469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Packages which depend on plymouth: cryptsetup, mountall". That's a bit on the strange side. < 1291148477 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1291148494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I've asked this before, but I'm still hazy on the answer: if I torrent something with (say) transmission, what is the chance of my ISP descending upon me like a tonne of bricks? < 1291148500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 0. < 1291148512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: -1 if you're torrenting something legal. < 1291148514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 if you're not. < 1291148521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Make sure to forward yer ports. < 1291148524 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291148532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my... ports? < 1291148533 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moved to other room :F < 1291148537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: x_x < 1291148540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have a router. Yes? < 1291148552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say "I don't know" you have to kill yourself. Just a heads up. < 1291148573 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, he is tricking you. That is a sexual joke < 1291148610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, clearly. < 1291148611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect Vorpal to actually do something as interesting as attempt to deceive, so I'll believe him. < 1291148616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forward your ports all over the place. < 1291148625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um... it won't work if you don't forward your ports. < 1291148628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So good luck with that < 1291148635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, it might, but it'll go at 3 KiB/s. < 1291148641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 0 or 1, depending on whether or not your ISP is run by assholes. < 1291148642 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah :P I think you got double-tricked or something < 1291148647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Er, no, 0. < 1291148656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, my ISP is definitely run by assholes. < 1291148656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's run by assholes, you basically can't get onto BitTorrent. < 1291148662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pikhq is wrong. < 1291148665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is talking like he's in 2004. < 1291148666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH I can torrent anyway, so... < 1291148669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq thinks traffic shaping still works. < 1291148676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(against encryption) < 1291148683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It will go faster if you forward the ports. < 1291148684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Comcast somehow does it still. < 1291148691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which ports, then? < 1291148691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Please do not assume the world = US < 1291148700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It depends. Go into Transmission preferences, Network, click Test port. < 1291148706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it says it's open, never mind; everything's working. < 1291148707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, say so. < 1291148708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they actually *block it* entirely. < 1291148725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good luck doing that with encryption. < 1291148729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>0 is a distinct possibility for "borderline ISPs" like some student-housing places or something. They can go all like "ooh I see you have lots of connections to different places that smells like illegal peer-to-beer". < 1291148731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Still do it! < 1291148737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it's not blocked, since I've successfully torrented several times before. < 1291148754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then an entirely 0 chance of your ISP giving a shit. < 1291148757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fairly sure Phantom_Hoover isn't in student housing. < 1291148768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I wonder what a non-geek overhearing fractions from a lecture on genetic algorithms would think < 1291148784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "killing off unfit offspring in each generation" < 1291148787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1291148818 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the port is open, which just piques my curiosity further. < 1291148835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I do have a router, and I haven't configured it. < 1291148841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What if ADOLF HITLER travelled forwards in time and heard that. < 1291148848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He would enslave us all to implement COMPUTATIONAL EUGENICS < 1291148855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then it does UPnP properly, be happy. < 1291148861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you have the UPnP or NAT-PMP checkboxes checked in the same page as the test-port thing? < 1291148866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... < 1291148882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, that makes sense. < 1291148901 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would hitler do when his algorithm told him to kill himself? < 1291148904 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, stupid question < 1291148908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPnP working for someone just like that; this clearly must be the 2010s. < 1291148914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: fun fact, that's actually what happened < 1291148919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't give a shit about losing the war. < 1291148935 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know. hence the "stupid question" comment. < 1291148943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Do you have the UPnP or NAT-PMP checkboxes checked in the same page as the test-port thing? <-- on the same page? Wait what? < 1291148952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a router? < 1291148953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's what hitler said < 1291148957 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with logical pages? < 1291148961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, transmission preferences. < 1291148962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1291148974 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah. The world isn't breaking down yet then < 1291148982 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's because i have so much in common with hitler. i'm white. i have a mustache. i have a german name. etc. etc. < 1291148989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should buy a box to be a router sometime, it sounds fun < 1291148992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: also, you are hitler < 1291148998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a similarity < 1291149008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i should buy a box to be a router sometime, it sounds fun <-- ? < 1291149014 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you a jew? < 1291149017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can buy a cardboard box and then pretend to be a router like in Warriors of the Net. < 1291149019 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION graps the jew-smiting hammer < 1291149024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as opposed to my consumer router i have < 1291149026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :box = computer. < 1291149038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah. It would use a shitload more power < 1291149042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes, i'm a filthy kike. < 1291149046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION killed by Hitler for being a jew < 1291149048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION killed by jews for saying that < 1291149058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION killed by everyone because it seems popular < 1291149069 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what hitler would do when his algorithm told him that most jews were more fit than him? < 1291149072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe i'll make it ARM < 1291149072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think my Atom mini-ITX box eats very many orders of magnitude more power than someone's embedded-linux router. < 1291149079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: he exercised more < 1291149092 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1291149100 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought he drank more whiskey < 1291149150 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't he working against himself sending jews to labor camps then, forcing them to workout every single day? it's hard to keep up with that sort of exercise regimen. < 1291149170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: he was a strong believer in giving yourself motive and competition to improve < 1291149190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Language_list&curid=960&diff=20300&oldid=20299 whoops :D < 1291149196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, to the matter of working out which torrent to use for a given thing. < 1291149196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1291149201 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitler was secretly a time traveller. that's he avoided all the time travellers trying to kill him. < 1291149210 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*how he < 1291149212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that couldn't perform very well < 1291149227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you're a format nerd. What should I look for? < 1291149229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was thinking 10 gbit ethernet router :P < 1291149235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, what is it? < 1291149237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It performs perfectly well to saturate the sort of ADSL you can get here. < 1291149242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1291149280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I meant "in general, which format is the best for me to choose?" < 1291149293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...is it music? video? what? < 1291149294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should sometimes benchmark how well it does on passing data between the network HD and the LAN, though; those are connected to different gige-ports on it. < 1291149296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell do you answer that question? < 1291149306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, video. < 1291149320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: btw, use http://torrentz.com/ to search and use the tracker list files it has. < 1291149330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinITX ("UK's biggest small form factor specialist" to quote themselves) sells all kinds of funky router-optimized boxes. < 1291149331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As indeed I plan to do. < 1291149333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click the uTorrent compatible link, copy, go into torrent properties, trackers, Edit, paste it in. < 1291149341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not fun unless I do it myself without help! < 1291149350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DVD or Bluray ISO. < 1291149352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it depends! < 1291149356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only half-joking) < 1291149361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If it's a movie, look for a Blu-ray rip. < 1291149366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If it looks too big, get a compressed version of that. < 1291149376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failing that, uh, order by file size and pick the largest one you feel like downloading. < 1291149399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a TV show, look for anything .mkv and it's probably decently done :P < 1291149410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's anything else, I'm pretty sure pornography doesn't generally come in too many bitrate options. < 1291149417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look for either the best-encoded h264 rip in .mkv or an actual ISO and encode it myself. < 1291149426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, they sell quasi-suitable parts too, if you don't want something that comes with an operating system. (I wouldn't buy their m0n0wall nonsense anyway, really. And MikroTik RouterOS, well...) < 1291149457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quasi-suitable for when you want something that goes in a metal box and looks more routery than computery. :p < 1291149461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you will appreciate google's logo today. < 1291149468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It will run Kitten, of course. < 1291149471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or maybe NetBSD. < 1291149490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I honestly didn't realise it was St. Andrew's day until I saw it stated explicitly. < 1291149496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was in January. < 1291149504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Welshman. < 1291149534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure I'm not /that/. < 1291149541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems to be some sort of .co.uk Google special. < 1291149543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never felt any attraction towards sheep. < 1291149570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even ... deep in your heart? < 1291149639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1291149744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I don't see it. < 1291149752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's .co.uk only. < 1291149772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose Americans would be confused by St. Andrew or something? < 1291149914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, given that they're idiots who can't even deal with a flag on a logo. < 1291149921 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D:D: < 1291149995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats like a taliban falg < 1291150018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, seriously, do I have to do $(ls -A) as an argument to tar? < 1291150019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1291150083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... Yes. < 1291150116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why is tar badly-designed. < 1291150137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the "./" annoy you there? < 1291150152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try using file-roller on such a tar; you get "." as an actual directory there. < 1291150158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so that's probably file-roller's fault, but still. < 1291150158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This would be astoundingly easy to do with cpio. < 1291150163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does put the actual ./ in the tar. < 1291150183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't you usually pipe find to cpio? < 1291150190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1291150192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, easy! < 1291150194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In which case presumably it strips the ./? < 1291150196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1291150208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not 100% sure. < 1291150319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I do --owner= and --group= with cpio? :p < 1291150331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, .deb's have the "./" inside them too, and it doesn't seem to bother anyone. < 1291150335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--owner=user:group < 1291150366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or -R for the short option. < 1291150468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is that POSIX-before-they-dropped-cpio? < 1291150481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, it's not busybox, just checked. >_< < 1291150488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: .debs are ars... < 1291150514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is in BSD... < 1291150572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the data-containing tar part. < 1291150619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dpkg-deb -c blah.deb => files are like "./usr/share/foo"; I assume ./ is in the tar already.) < 1291150686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, how does one list the contents of a tar file? < 1291150692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, t. < 1291150694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh, < 1291150707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ls -A does work though. < 1291150782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If I use sh -e, and depend on < 1291150784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ -x $pkg/build ] < 1291150789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exiting if it's not true, am I silly and/or hideous? < 1291150794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to adding || exit 1. < 1291151094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, it's buil't. < 1291151097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first Kitten package. < 1291151113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 370K Nov 30 21:04 vi.tar < 1291151126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's not a real Kitten package; it's compiled with gcc, and dynamically linked with glibc. < 1291151129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 'tis a start. < 1291151174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now I'm wondering how to do uninstallation. < 1291151194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm thinking: Each package has a manifest, which is a bunch of lines with " filename". < 1291151207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The uninstall script removes every file that hashes right, and prints out the ones that don't (presumably configuration files you've modified). < 1291151211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can then remove them yourself if you want to. < 1291151229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, sha128 means sha1 doesn't it. < 1291151231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the best simple way of doing it. < 1291151232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I mean. < 1291151242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You'd better test Kitten when it's ready :P < 1291151249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1291151256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a VM, mind, but sure. :P < 1291151271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And then if it's decent on disk? I think being the only user would crush my soul. :p < 1291151281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When I declare it stable enough, of course.) < 1291151290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite possibly. < 1291151290 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291151319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, I'm still not sure how to do multilib, but I'm erring on the side of "keep it simple and if you want multilib you get to have the packages built on your machine". < 1291151327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. automated, but no binary packages. < 1291151340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, wait a second. < 1291151363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If I do static linking exclusively, then putting a package in /arch/foo even when it thinks it's meant to be in / shouldn't cause problems, right? < 1291151373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Stuff that puts its prefix in executables, sure. < 1291151376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those are rare. < 1291151381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In most cases, it shouldn't cause problems. < 1291151395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll just do that then. If it doesn't work you can build the package yourself. < 1291151432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, as for actually supporting more than one platform and thus making this relevant, that will have to wait. Exclusively x86-64 to start with. :p < 1291151477 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1291151503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I started a new single player game. Mostly to build a underwater fort in it as my main base. Found a HUGE underground cave with lots of lava lakes and waterfalls. < 1291151516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh < 1291151524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, below the sea too < 1291151531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: building it out of glass i hope < 1291151536 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a lot of stone pillars in the middle so you can't actually see from end to end < 1291151549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that should pose no problem. I spawned on a desert next to the sea :P < 1291151579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Here's the incredibly complicated pkgbuild script: http://sprunge.us/GdVR < 1291151580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :P < 1291151589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Although I think $(ls -A) breaks for filenames with spaces in them; patches welcome. :p < 1291151648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, estimated size from map for the huge cavern part: 200x50. And some way away there is one even larger , 100x100 or so. Which seems to be a lot more open and have one huge lava lake covering more than 2/3 < 1291151680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls -A | cpio! < 1291151681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291151683 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291151692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really tempting. < 1291151706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But how can I call packages furballs if they're not tarballs? :p < 1291151707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpioballs? < 1291151714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cpio can make tarballs. < 1291151719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Operation modifiers: < 1291151719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -[0-7][lmh] < 1291151719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : specify drive and density < 1291151724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Only GNU cpio. < 1291151732 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1291151734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BusyBox cpio can't. < 1291151751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned BusyBox cpio. < 1291151777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pax*! < 1291151779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey now, no insulting BusyBox. < 1291151781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know of pax. < 1291151783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I will not use pax. < 1291151786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls -A | pax < 1291151788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, BusyBox doesn't have pax afaik. < 1291151794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Umm .. wrong. < 1291151803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will try and list the contents of the archive (directory list). < 1291151821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You mean "find . -depth -print | pax -wd >foo.tar", apparently. < 1291151828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That. < 1291151828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what that argument-less depth is all about. < 1291151843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.\./.../ < 1291151852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also: < 1291151857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ pax -wf /dev/fd0 . < 1291151857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATTENTION! pax archive volume change required. < 1291151857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/fd0 ready for archive volume: 2 < 1291151857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Load the NEXT STORAGE MEDIA (if required) and make sure it is WRITE ENABLED. < 1291151857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type "y" to continue, "." to quit pax, or "s" to switch to new device. < 1291151857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you cannot change storage media, type "s" < 1291151859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the device ready and online? > < 1291151884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Holy shit. < 1291151885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/pax.html < 1291151889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Look at that fucking man page. < 1291151897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is it still a man page if it has tables and diagrams?) < 1291151901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Most bloated tool EVAR < 1291151908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-o options < 1291151908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Provide information to the implementation to modify the algorithm for extracting or writing files. The value of options shall consist of one or more comma-separated keywords of the form: < 1291151908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : keyword[[:]=value][,keyword[[:]=value], ...] < 1291151911 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1291151918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it *is* meant to replace cpio/tar/etc. < 1291151923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but just LOOK at it. < 1291151939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Holy crap you can *change the algorithm*? < 1291151941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, I'll just make tars with a . directory. < 1291151988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/bRhM < 1291151991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Package building! < 1291152010 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291152122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/pkg$ make -n install < 1291152122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir -p //bin < 1291152122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir -p //var/pkg < 1291152126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, those duplicate /s really irk me. < 1291152148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -p, --preserve-permissions, --same-permissions < 1291152148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : extract information about file permissions (default for superuser) < 1291152154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... tar lets this mode *not* be default? < 1291152158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever? < 1291152168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Know what I love? CPIO. < 1291152326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Odd. -depth seems to put directories after their files when given no argument. < 1291152338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it takes no argument. < 1291152346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -depth Process each directory's contents before the directory itself. < 1291152346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The -delete action also implies -depth. < 1291152347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1291152414 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1291152458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So whaddya think. tar or cpio? :p < 1291152482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ugh it is so *irritating* that cpio has no arguments to set owner/group. < 1291152552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -R owner:group < 1291152588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/SVSB < 1291152724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So no :P < 1291152748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is annoying. < 1291152761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddsh cpio? :P < 1291152909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AHA < 1291152913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I will just use dd/shars < 1291153100 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1291153559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: find -depth ! -name . < 1291153562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This is actually valid. < 1291153564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (and is implicit) < 1291154045 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT??? IPv4 unallocated block count is down to 7 (Confirmed from IANA allocation records). < 1291154289 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One final allocation and it will be finished. < 1291154375 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291154390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: LOLZ < 1291154421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there likely to be a Newspeak3 in the near future or have things settled down a little < 1291154425 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The models seem to be quite optimistic w.r.t. reality... < 1291154432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to look at Newspeak more closely < 1291154462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth helped me not go insane at Factor, Factor's listener might help me not go insane at Newspeak's... tools < 1291154564 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The models have APNIC last, so this doesn't nominally change the depletion day... < 1291154790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, I just realised. < 1291154798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The code section is shared between all instances of the busybox process. < 1291154801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1291154806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is. < 1291154822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Wait, seriously? < 1291154865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIPE allocated those. < 1291154884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ARIN is allocating soon. < 1291154884 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ < 1291154896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1291154906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC should be allocating soon... < 1291154937 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when that happens, it will end it. < 1291154953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1291155009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1291155010 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: Anyone got the reference in "One final allocation and it will be finished." and "And when that happens, it will end it."? :-) < 1291155143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is your opinion of Newspeak? < 1291155288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't this an insanely early allocation for RIPE? < 1291155300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So if you need to add a member to a module definition, you should be able check who is mixing it in and what names they have added." < 1291155304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. possibly indicative of a run on the bank? < 1291155306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... fuck you < 1291155323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to pretend I didn't read that. < 1291155349 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dug through to the huger open one < 1291155352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1291155372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe that mine seed thing would be nice < 1291155394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why fuck you < 1291155437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I, module author, shouldn't have to check that no dumbasses anywhere in the world subclassed my module and added some name < 1291155444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1291155450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moron < 1291155645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BTW: Anyone got the reference in "One final allocation and it will be finished." and "And when that happens, it will end it."? :-) <-- sounds familiar < 1291155647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, can't place it < 1291155651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, some webcomic? < 1291155669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ? < 1291155693 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: The original forms were "Today, it will be finished!" and "This will end it!". < 1291155713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah then I guess that webcomic referenced the same thing, whatever it was < 1291155734 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it is a game). < 1291155736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague memory of a web comic panel, no clue what webcomic < 1291155743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, then I don't know < 1291155843 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graa. < 1291155856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, you have to update < 1291155884 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, tell me when it is done < 1291155891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, not that I have much this this late < 1291155902 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1291155957 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll still do it now. < 1291155978 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be slightly intoxicated, though. < 1291155995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Are you enjoying the glamorous life of a Minecraft server administrator, with demanding customers and SLAs to fulfill? < 1291155999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, huh < 1291156013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also try not to wipe out the world. < 1291156120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and get yourself a pager we can bother you with for server updates. Possibly with some sort of electric-shock compliance enforcement option. < 1291156129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1291156375 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graa, what am I doing? < 1291156394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrading < 1291156395 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291156404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh googling for IW LED I can't find much. But this flashlight states it uses IW LED at 30-60 lumen. < 1291156411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully not downgrading. < 1291156415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure is extremely bright < 1291156436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, you have a backup I hope? < 1291156464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, shouldn't it simply be: backup, download new .jar and run it? < 1291156478 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I managed to do it. < 1291156481 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1291156489 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try logging in now. < 1291156498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you guys actually done anything new today/ < 1291156504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever actually ran the servur. < 1291156559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, I can login. But this is a wasteland I see < 1291156574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, post-third worldway < 1291156576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :war* < 1291156577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1291156585 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1291156587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it was just a vision ;P < 1291156601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1291156608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So has any development occurred? < 1291156643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the client remembered the server name (but not port). < 1291156663 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some day he'll actually add that server list thing. < 1291156867 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-40-200.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291156901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you still haven't told me your opinion < 1291157179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Galois, Inc. is pleased to announce the immediate release of the Haskell Lightweight Virtual Machine (or HaLVM), version 1.0. The HaLVM is a port of the GHC runtime system to the Xen hypervisor, allowing programmers to create Haskell programs that run directly on Xen’s “bare metal.” Internally, Galois has used this system in several projects with much success, and we hope y’all will have an equally great time with it. < 1291157181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAWT. < 1291157252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual bare metal < 1291157280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an actually useful oxymoron < 1291157354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: haskell.org got redesigned. < 1291157356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: too I guess < 1291157357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell < 1291157359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice. < 1291157516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes some broken images < 1291157556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :P < 1291157651 0 :mutt_d!~niranj@5356C868.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1291157745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an old woman who lived in a proxy < 1291157763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Linguistic Reflection via Mirrors" lecture spoiler < 1291157765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1291157797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lecture...spoiler. < 1291157801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you < 1291157844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1291157869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, uh... any ideas other than having pkgbuild run as root? < 1291157873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not going to setuid it root. Just no.) < 1291157909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I understood the newtype State s a = State { runState :: s -> (s,a) } thing < 1291157916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is runState? < 1291157917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's easy. < 1291157919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ignore runState. < 1291157928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do in general terms? < 1291157930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype State s a = State (s -> (s, a)) < 1291157932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you understand that? < 1291157946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It takes a state and returns the modified state and the actual value. < 1291157959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://newspeaklanguage.org/newspeak-videos/ < 1291157963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes/no? :p < 1291157989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so runState is basically just an elaborate version of \x -> case x of State f -> f < 1291158001 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, s/elaborate/shortened/ < 1291158012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can you give yes/no answers to yes/no questions rather than trying to think ahead? < 1291158028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that. < 1291158029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is /really/ irritating trying to explain things to people in simple, obvious chunks and having them often completely misinterpret things because they're skipping ahead. < 1291158059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay, then: < 1291158064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runstate :: State s a -> s -> (s, a) < 1291158074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I get it now. < 1291158075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., given a stateful computation, and an initial state, return the final state and the final result. < 1291158076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*runState < 1291158085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runState (State f) s x = f s x < 1291158092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are assuming he actually wants the explanation of the monad, while he is just asking for the syntax < 1291158095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But since you can do record accessors with that syntax, you don't need this wrapper function. < 1291158101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, I was assuming he knew both < 1291158108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was just explaining /why/ runState is done as an accessor (simplicity) < 1291158112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is non-intuitive < 1291158121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1291158130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather /how/ < 1291158131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1291158150 0 :mutt_d!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1291158238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION falls in love with mirrors < 1291158246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically runState is a field name, you can put those in data definitions as well < 1291158276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*declarations < 1291158290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, indeed < 1291158342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in that case they are also useful for pattern matching and modifying < 1291158433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, arguably :P < 1291158464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have many fields especially, since you only need to mention the fields you actually use < 1291158572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sign of a bad data structure usually < 1291158608 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1291158627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1291158652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This is a neat idea, but if the gov't wanted to stop us from communicating, they could just cut the cables and down the satellites.]] < 1291158660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love to see someone cut an undersea internet cable. < 1291158669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...and I have a really big saw to do it with, too!" < 1291158689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it has happened before < 1291158722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the cutting of an *undersea* cable? < 1291158730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, impressive! how big was the saw? < 1291158762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cables getting cut, at least. i'm not sure they found the culprit < 1291158782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure you don't just mean, like, regular cables? < 1291158787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the gigantic ones going across the ocean? < 1291158837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.softpedia.com/news/Severed-Undersea-Internet-Cable-to-Disrupt-Service-in-India-140641.shtml < 1291158906 0 :perdito!~perdito@koln-4d0b6ada.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291158912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome :D < 1291158928 0 :perdito!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi folks < 1291158930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEA-ME-WE_4 < 1291158933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at how fucking long it is! < 1291158998 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-47-89.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291159033 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1291159059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I often wonder how long it will be until the terrorists wise up and get some thermite and diving gear. < 1291159078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the combination of thermite and diving gear has to be the most awesome thing ever < 1291159091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also, OH NO THE INTERNET WENT OUT FOR A WHILE < 1291159097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite apocalyptic yet. < 1291159118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "OH NO THE BACKBONE OF OUR COMMUNICATIONS AND HENCE ECONOMY WENT OUT" < 1291159136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Of our *intra-continent* communiactions. < 1291159139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1291159140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inter- < 1291159170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So! Should I use cpio or tar? < 1291159178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's the transatlantic cable off the coast of Ireland. < 1291159355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, SHA-1 or SHA-224 or other for hashes in the manifest? I'm thinkin' just SHA-1 and make it SHA-3 whenever (as if that will ever be a problem). < 1291159460 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1291159508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291159699 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-21.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1291159751 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1291159893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1291160766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, can one su to nobody? Nobody has no password, so... < 1291160813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually -- can one become nobody in a shell script, without the terminal seeing anything? < 1291160828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather not depend on sudo, but I guess I could. < 1291161380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1291161385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yellow text < 1291161391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"jag känner en bot" < 1291161392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1291161396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1291161408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you read the list < 1291161413 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, nop < 1291161419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were much funnier when you saw them in a huge list < 1291161420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Reference to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oTsB-u-iPI. < 1291161429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Vorpal knows what it's a reference to < 1291161430 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know what it is a reference to.... < 1291161431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was meme-y a few years back. < 1291161438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's swedish you know < 1291161439 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why else would I laugh at it < 1291161446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: iirc he mentioned one of those in the list and someone had to point it out to him < 1291161450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway you can never be sure with Vorpal :D < 1291161458 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't listened to it though < 1291161464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course I know about it < 1291161466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing got re-dubbed in english with completely unrelated lyrics, weirded me out when i heard it < 1291161467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1291161468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wait" < 1291161471 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAA! < 1291161472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he hasn't said 'bot' once yet" < 1291161490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, ? < 1291161494 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAA! < 1291161519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a boat < 1291161525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, Is it because of GRAA! that you feel insecure? < 1291161534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1291161542 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel insecure. < 1291161556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, I was joking about ELIZA < 1291161557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his name is andy, andy is his name < 1291161566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess this rhyme is kinda lame < 1291161580 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffuuuuuuuuuuu C++ < 1291161581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is 60 lumen bright? < 1291161589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very directed light < 1291161595 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate object types and references