00:00:50 oklopol: down? 00:00:59 i guess 00:01:04 did you get my msg 00:01:09 i'm in ineiros' hole 00:01:13 noticed its entrance 00:01:16 oklopol: WHY DID YOU GO IN THERE AGAIN 00:01:19 oklopol: climb up the stairs 00:01:22 use F3 to get to -200 00:01:27 then go to 1000 00:01:29 in the other coord 00:01:32 back up 00:01:33 well i figured it's faster to go from there than walk to spawn 00:01:41 it is 00:01:44 but falling in it does not help 00:01:46 well, that's why i went there 00:01:48 nono 00:01:56 i was walking on the tracks 00:01:56 what 00:02:02 and noticed the entrance to ineiros' hole 00:02:03 ohh right 00:02:06 stairs then 00:02:24 it's painfully obvious 00:02:26 to notice 00:10:24 oklopol: be there in a second 00:15:07 Learn you a Haskell is amazing 00:22:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:22:14 fizzie: Can you please give oklopol a lesson in basic navigation. He is worse at it than me. 00:22:50 fizzie: Or at least, I don't believe I could be within short-(or-maybe-normal)-viewing-range of the cube, go into the sea right next to it, claim to see nothing, and then become completely out of sight for someone on far 30 seconds later. 00:22:54 no i'm not 00:23:08 oklopol: yes you are 00:23:15 and i'm terrible at navigation 00:24:56 no, i am not 00:26:09 I'm not the guy to ask, since I'd lose my own head without having it shown on a mcmap window. 00:27:25 oklopol: is it down again. 00:27:30 i think so 00:27:48 no more 00:42:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 00:58:16 oklopol: is it down again? 00:58:31 variable: 'Tis. 00:58:45 dunno dunno 00:58:50 i think so 01:18:34 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:21:27 -!- quintopia has joined. 01:25:53 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:26:55 night → 01:29:43 wait 01:30:11 elliott, is it possible to change mcmap from using // to something else? I was going to try out this hmod plugin on my local test server: http://forum.hey0.net/showthread.php?tid=94 01:30:15 and it uses // 01:30:16 it seems 01:30:36 Perfectly possible but I like // and I'm not changing it. Grep the source or convince fizzie. :p 01:30:54 elliott, right, I assume it is just one place to change it? Some define or such 01:31:12 elliott, if not I could make a patch that makes it just a define to change it. Would you accept that? 01:31:23 i wouldn't, but fizzie might. i certainly wouldn't like it if the usage messages 01:31:26 got a hideous define in them 01:31:41 Code/mcmap/main.c: && p->bytes[3] == '/' && p->bytes[4] == '/') 01:31:41 Code/mcmap/world.c:if (t >= 3 && p[0] == '/' && p[1] == '/') 01:31:41 elliott, well what about a command line option then 01:31:44 those are the two places to change. 01:31:50 making that a strcmp would be irritating. 01:32:17 elliott, wouldn't need to be strcmp. The first char would always be /. It would just be a case of changing the second char 01:32:32 but what if I wanted my prefix to be "^å"? 01:32:34 elliott, and I agree that // is a good default. 01:32:53 elliott, then you could patch the source. / is very commandy after all :) 01:33:08 Vorpal: if it was just a define to change the second char, and you left the usage messages saying //foo no matter what to simplify the code, sure, i'd apply it 01:33:24 elliott, the messages, aren't they just strings 01:33:27 have you got any spare torches? ph has ours in his inventory i think and we need to torch sand. 01:33:30 Vorpal: yes. 01:33:30 hm wait you would need to stringify 01:33:34 that would be annoying 01:33:40 even if you did 01:33:41 #define char / 01:33:42 fuck C 01:33:49 yeah 01:33:51 elliott, sounds like a bad idea ;P 01:34:00 Vorpal: got any spare torches? 01:34:07 any #define char sounds bad 01:34:10 elliott, define spare 01:34:16 Vorpal: to use for torching. 01:34:20 oh i already asked that 01:34:30 you can have them back when ph gives us our torches back. 01:34:51 elliott, well no, I carry the raw resources around. I don't carry more than a handful of actual torches 01:35:00 but I can't login atm. elliott you can have them tomorrow 01:35:11 Vorpal: right, well, it's kind of a pressing need. 01:35:13 fizzie? 01:35:13 elliott, anyway, surely you found a shitload of coal by now? 01:35:22 Vorpal: uh why i've been working on the cube 01:35:26 why would we find coal 01:35:32 elliott, when digging below it? 01:35:45 Vorpal: tnt. 01:35:50 excavation is on hold until tnt kit anyway 01:35:54 Ecological practices would eliminate your need for coal! 01:35:57 >.> 01:35:58 elliott, hm 01:36:10 Sgeo_: got a better way to remove long columns of gravel/sand? 01:36:27 elliott, but this makes no sense. those are reused 01:36:35 Vorpal: ph has them in his inventory, as i said. 01:36:40 why can't you log in now 01:36:43 elliott, tell him to hand it back? 01:36:48 he's offline 01:36:49 duh 01:36:51 elliott, I get route not found :P 01:36:59 elliott, my internet *is* screwed up 01:37:02 have you tried in the last hour 01:37:09 elliott, I tried after you asked me 01:37:12 elliott, how do you use coal to do that? 01:37:14 just above 01:37:17 elliott, like 2 minutes ago 01:37:21 Sgeo_: you use torches. 01:37:48 elliott, anyway don't you have a stack of coal and a stack of logs in your inventory? 01:37:53 Vorpal: no. 01:38:21 * Vorpal decides to use /7 for mcmap 01:38:33 elliott, how? 01:39:02 "**Torches can be placed on the block if fast graphics is on. Switching to fast graphics, placing the torch and then switching back to fancy will not remove the torch. 01:39:02 " 01:39:04 WTF 01:39:30 Sgeo_, it can be placed on leaves in both now I think 01:39:36 Sgeo_, that bit should be updated 01:39:47 Why was there ever a difference? 01:39:52 Notch quality coding/ 01:39:56 ? 01:39:57 Sgeo_, handled as glass 01:40:02 probably 01:40:14 Sgeo_: buy the fucking game and come do our drudge work for us 01:41:02 -!- quintopia has joined. 01:46:04 elliott, I first parsed that as "fucking-game" 01:46:21 Vorpal's turning into me! 01:46:26 "do all the fucking for us, we'll handle the interesting stuff" 01:47:02 elliott, i didn't get that far before backtracking though :P 01:48:08 oklopol: lol 01:49:13 oklopol: back up 01:58:10 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:58:21 can one of my female buddies come on the server 02:00:54 oklopol, ask ineiros? 02:01:06 that's who i'm asking mainly 02:02:30 Be prepared to wait a while for the answer, also. 02:03:33 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:36:41 fizzie, there? 02:37:01 fizzie: stopped playing already 02:50:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:11:43 PHRASE O' THE DAY: "Spices is arsenic, dude!" 03:14:06 THE WIN 03:14:09 GOD, THE WIN 03:15:38 ...is there some reference i'm not getting :D 03:17:16 oerjan: No, it's just freaking hilarious and winsome. 03:22:35 It is a reference, but it's way too "in-joke" to just me and some people in PDX :P 03:24:05 "PDX can refer to Portland, Oregon" 03:24:31 And does! 03:24:41 * oerjan vaguely recalls Gregor is from there but swats him for the obscure acronym nevertheless -----### 03:24:57 It's not an acronym, it's an international airport code :P 03:25:14 same shit 03:26:37 oerjan: But it doesn't expand to anything. 03:26:55 It's just a pointer to the airport in Portland, Oregon. 03:26:56 hmph 03:27:01 night → 03:27:02 Gregor, and other people who've seen your Facebook statuses? 03:27:13 Gregor: Even without the in-joke-ness, it's pretty winsome. So. 03:27:17 It's not an acronym, it's an international airport code :P <-- no? 03:27:26 Gregor, the international ones are 4-letters 03:27:29 not 3-letters 03:28:50 Vorpal: No. 03:28:54 Vorpal, nope 03:28:56 they are all 3 03:29:01 Vorpal: There's multiple airport codes, and multiple international airport codes. 03:29:08 pikhq, ICAO 03:29:19 pikhq, it is the widely used one 03:29:23 * Sgeo_ wants to play Minecraft multiplayer NAO 03:29:25 :( 03:29:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:29:27 Vorpal: IATA is also an international airport code that is widely used. 03:29:40 Vorpal: And Portland has PDX. 03:29:51 pikhq, "Most countries use ICAO codes, not IATA codes, in their official aeronautical publications." 03:29:53 from wikipedia 03:30:16 The US, to be contrary, uses its own. 03:30:29 pikhq, thus I forgotten about IATA because you never see it used widely 03:30:32 pikhq, typical of us :-} 03:30:56 Most of the time, but not always, it's identical to the IATA code, but the FAA code is completely distinct. 03:31:55 pikhq, ICAO is way way more common than IATA 03:32:57 Except in the US, where FAA which is usually identical to IATA is more common. 03:33:03 Because we hate you. 03:33:04 :D 03:33:16 pikhq, not for international flights though :P 03:33:42 I don't remember the flight codes used on my last international flight, so I can't say. 03:34:02 pikhq, I meant for navigation and so on. I don't care about luggage :P 03:34:38 Well, for navigation... English is the used language. Because we hate you. :P 03:34:55 pikhq, well it is in many fields 03:35:06 OUR HATRED IS VAST! 03:35:21 pikhq, ta det språk som jag använde nyss till exempel. 03:35:31 engelska igen 03:35:37 pikhq, och så vidare! 03:35:55 その言語がとても変だ。 03:35:55 (try google translate, it will probably be hilarious) 03:36:00 http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/ewr1a/so_i_have_a_new_way_to_play_minecraft/c1bkh2k 03:36:01 英語だけ！ 03:36:05 pikhq, touche 03:36:44 Take the language that I used recently for example. English again. And so on! 03:36:59 That is astoundingly close to being comprehensible. 03:37:28 I bet machine translation between Germanic languages is easier than the general case. 03:38:14 http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/ewr1a/so_i_have_a_new_way_to_play_minecraft/c1bkh2k <-- tried that on smaller scale 03:38:23 pikhq, not necc. using google's algorithms 03:38:33 Sgeo_, as in, a few minutes in nether and then 4-5 hours to trek home 03:38:42 pikhq, for most language parsing based translators you would be right 03:38:54 Vorpal, 4-5 HOURS? 03:38:56 but Google does not parse the language in order to translae 03:38:57 o.O 03:39:00 Take the language that I used recently for example. English again. And so on! <-- quite indeed 03:39:05 pikhq, it made perfect sense 03:39:20 variable: Presumably because even just naively "translating" the words verbatim would get you in the ballpark. 03:39:41 Sgeo_, yes. There was a huge lake in the way and some pretty sights. And the terrain was very uneven. 03:39:48 pikhq, I read a few whitepapers on how google does translation 03:39:54 Sgeo_, I could probably have managed 1-2 hours if I had rushed 03:40:03 Ah, yeah, Google's is statistical based on its crawling, isn't it? 03:40:08 pikhq, yes 03:40:26 Hmm. 03:40:28 they take "known good" translations (such as wikipedia) 03:41:03 and use some very interesting models to figure out which _phrases_ translate roughly to other phrases 03:41:08 and use those 03:41:18 ie: google does NOT know which words are nouns and which verbs 03:41:53 And that's why you get hilarious translations from it sometimes. 03:42:00 IIRC something like Venice → New York. 03:42:34 pikhq, one of the funniest things to do is to translate from Eng -> French -> Eng -> French -> Eng ... 03:42:48 variable, leads to curios results sometimes. Such as "the official denied any knowledge of" turning into "the official denied not knowing anything about" (approx) once when I translated from Norwegian to Swedish. 03:43:25 variable, and that was not iterative 03:43:59 Vorpal, you can "correct" the translations and over time Google will learn the new phrases 03:44:10 pikhq, other known ones: inch -> cm. TT -> AP (TT is a Swedish news agency, AP is a completely different one) 03:44:31 oh right: also km -> mile 03:44:35 variable, yep 03:44:46 because google doesn't know what it is translating 03:45:00 variable, now I just hope they don't do sv:mil -> en:mile. Because a Swedish mile is 10 km 03:45:02 it only knows that the two phrases occur at the right places in multiple documents 03:45:27 which is even more off than km 03:45:30 Vorpal: That probably depends on time period. 03:45:43 pikhq, eh? what does? 03:45:52 pikhq, oh, length of mile 03:45:56 pikhq, I meant modern mile 03:46:11 pikhq, as you might say "it is 10 mile to that city" or such 03:46:16 `translatefromto no sv Tjenestemannen benektet ethvert kjennskap til 03:46:31 oerjan, hackego not here 03:46:36 Hmm. Actually, the traditional Swedish mil unit was actually close to 10 km. 03:46:38 darnit 03:46:50 pikhq, possibly. I'm no history expert. 03:46:52 anyone here speak Norwegian ? 03:46:58 variable, yes oerjan 03:47:00 According to Wikipedia, that is. 03:47:15 variable: Yeah, Ørjan. 03:47:17 pikhq, but a modern Swedish mil is 10 km 03:47:26 pikhq, oooh perfect 03:47:31 Vorpal: Instead of 10,688 m. 03:47:36 pikhq, hah 03:47:43 variable: that was just attempting to reconstruct Vorpal's example 03:47:44 (11,295 m in Norway) 03:47:46 oerjan, how do you pronounce ø ? 03:47:46 pikhq, there were different mil iirc 03:47:57 pikhq, like, for different purposes 03:48:10 That was the, ah, "land mile" or "long mile". 03:48:22 pikhq, travel by coach-mil I think? 03:48:28 pikhq, vs. a few other land ones 03:48:30 oerjan, if you can give me a good recording to listen to that would be awesome! 03:48:32 Vorpal: I bet you had stuff like the nautical mile as well, and of course the statue mile. 03:48:36 Statute, I mean. 03:48:42 pikhq, statue, could be it 03:48:46 also - anyone here speak Persian ? 03:48:49 variable: low frontal rounded. also i have no microphone. 03:49:18 or possibly mid frontal rounded, somewhere around there 03:49:18 oerjan, don't you pronounce it like ö? 03:49:18 The statute mile being, of course, 1,609.344 m. 03:49:26 (because eff you) 03:49:32 pikhq, hah 03:49:46 pikhq, what was the point of statue mile? 03:49:59 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11847921/Images/Games/Minecraft/screenshots/Heatsink.jpg why isn't the water flowing? 03:50:05 Vorpal: pretty close yes, i'm sure there is _some_ difference... 03:50:11 Vorpal: Defined by Act of Parliament! 03:50:25 pikhq, yes but why 03:50:50 oerjan, ok cool 03:50:50 Sgeo_, proably it flows down due to hole? 03:50:56 To define a standard system of measurements across Her Majesty's Realm. 03:50:59 Sgeo_, check wiki for rules on water 03:51:49 Sgeo_, nice building though 03:51:59 Sgeo_, and it is flowing. Right down 03:52:49 Vorpal, I saw you the first time 03:53:20 Sgeo_, ? 03:53:32 You didn't need to repeat yourself 03:53:37 The US, to be contrary, also has the survey foot. 03:53:37 I didn't 03:53:40 And related units. 03:53:55 Which are *almost* identical. 03:54:55 God, I hate the US's units. 03:55:04 pikhq, me too 03:55:12 { and I'm from the US } 03:55:18 variable: As am I. 03:55:30 pikhq, wherefrom? 03:55:39 Sgeo_, relevant page is http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Fluids 03:55:46 Near Colorado Springs, CO. 03:56:02 pikhq, I'm from the center of the world: New York :-} 03:56:12 Oh, sure, be near population. :P 03:56:59 Well. I suppose I'm near population. One of the few regions of population density in, oh, the surrounding few-hundred-kilometer radius. 03:58:09 My dad's claiming that with my study habits, I would not have survived at a decent college, and it's the post-graduate college that matters anyway 03:58:27 Sgeo_, grad school matters the most 03:58:39 Sgeo_, curious - which uni are you in? 03:58:43 Seriously, the nearest place of notable population going west is a 920 kilometer drive... 03:58:49 SUNY Farmingdale 03:59:00 Sgeo_, I'm in SUNY Binghamton :-) 03:59:00 Where the professors are idiots, the students are idiots 03:59:05 Erm, east. 03:59:26 West, it's... 967 km. 03:59:36 Sgeo_, you could probably transfer around the SUNYs fairly easily 03:59:40 pikhq, wow. 96 mil 03:59:43 pikhq, that's long 03:59:56 Vorpal: The US is freaking huge, and the west is sparsely populated. 04:00:05 variable, taking Computer Programming/Information Systems, need to work out if it's viable to do CS at Stony Brook for post-grad 04:00:33 pikhq, it is like 200 km to Stockholm from here... And I consider that far. Well not as far as going to north Sweden. 04:00:46 Vorpal: Look at a map of the US on Google Maps. Realise that that's about the size of Europe. 04:00:57 pikhq, very true 04:01:43 For me to go to the capital of the US would be a 28 hour trip driving straight... 04:01:55 2,663 km. 04:02:24 pikhq, take the sleeper train. Oh wait. 04:02:53 pikhq, I'm in the real capital of the US..... if I wanted to go to the political capital on the other hand..... 04:03:10 variable: You could actually take a train there. 04:03:22 * Sgeo_ suddenly wants to build a huge automatic elevator 04:03:31 pikhq, yes, I'm aware. I was joking about NY being the captial 04:03:42 Including automatic rests for breathing as needed 04:04:05 variable: Well, it is the *largest* city in the US. 04:04:38 Sgeo_, see pm again 04:05:01 -!- Sasha2 has joined. 04:06:05 Sgeo_, you mean boatlevator? 04:06:14 Vorpal, there are other kinds? 04:06:26 Sgeo_, no breathing rests required. Even when going from bottom to top of map 04:06:30 Sgeo_, it is too fast for that 04:06:36 Huh 04:06:58 Awwww, I wanted to build breathing rests 04:07:01 -!- Sasha has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:07:03 Sgeo_, you could try out the one I have at my place on the server. When you buy the game and ineiros let you on 04:07:05 Remove the ceiling! 04:07:10 Sgeo_, it goes nearly to the top 04:07:28 and it is automated 04:07:31 (it's a loop) 04:07:42 I think it is alt 4 -> alt 110 or something like that 04:09:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pDe7CKGgWA&feature=related actually says that it's the need to collect resources that makes MC interesting 04:09:52 Huh 04:11:07 Person doesn't know how to make scaffolds 04:12:42 o.O 04:13:01 Well, actually, I guess that works 04:13:01 There's a customary US fluid ounce and a food nutrition labelling US fluid ounce. 04:13:07 Sgeo_, boat loop is simple 04:13:11 Probably better, too. Easy to remove 04:13:21 -!- azaq231 has joined. 04:13:29 Vorpal, I'm talking about the method this person is using to get back up when he fell 04:13:30 The customary once is *defined as* 29.5735295625 mL. The labelling one is 30 mL. 04:13:32 Sgeo_, it you come on the server tomorrow I can show you 04:13:47 3:13 04:13:48 s/once/ounce/ 04:13:56 Vorpal, no chance I'll get MC by tomorrow 04:15:33 Sgeo_, in my method that is no issue. You dig two spiral staircases down. one 2x2, one 2x3. Separated by 5 blocks. then connect them at the bottom . Close up top of 2x3. Place water along the far edge. Fix bottom end of loop (this is hardest). Remove stairs in the holes, starting from top. Finally Open up top of 2x3 so water can flow down as well 04:17:20 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:22:02 It will be possible to use redstone to have music blocks play, right?/ 04:22:48 Sgeo_, as far as I heard yes 04:23:18 Sgeo_, anyway I prefer a larger loop variant 04:23:27 hm? 04:23:30 Sgeo_, more reliable, more time to get out and in of 04:24:21 Sgeo_, besides in total it needs 2x5 digging, not 2x9. Though the 2x5 is spread out into two separate holes with some distance in between 04:29:30 No elevators on the Reddit servers 04:29:34 (Water is banned) 04:29:43 Hmm 04:30:01 What happens if you use lava (not banned) and accidentally start a forest fire? 04:32:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 04:38:22 Is the current vocab system the final system that will be in Factor 1.0? 04:38:22 yes 04:38:29 I don't know why I bothered to ask 04:38:40 Hey, shutup shat up! 04:39:09 Ok, "shat" is almost certainly not .. does "shut" as a past tense work? 04:40:54 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shut 04:41:52 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:44:04 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 04:57:01 a programming language with *portals*... that would be interesting 04:57:54 Mathnerd314, oooooooooshowme 04:58:12 * Sgeo falls in love with a possibly not yet existent language 04:58:15 >.> 04:58:56 yeah, it's nonexistent so far 05:00:40 might be useful for distributed programming 05:00:49 :p 05:04:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:08:08 curses, there's already a portal programming language: http://www.google.com/search?tbo=1&tbs=bks%3A1&q=editions%3Aeqevfg0_XtQC 05:09:14 maybe I should call it "Portal 2" 05:13:34 * Sgeo falls in love with PORTAL 05:14:43 Hmm 05:14:52 Why haven't I heard of PORTAL before? 05:31:08 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:37:02 because it's an esoteric research language that nobody uses? 05:39:04 -!- azaq231 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:45:35 Mathnerd314: I do believe this is #esoteric. 05:45:44 Esoteric languages are sort of our thing. 05:49:09 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:14:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:16:24 * oerjan chuckles at r/circlejerk's latest antics 06:16:46 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:17:45 http://www.reddit.com/r/circlejerk/comments/ewmac/for_every_500_upvotes_this_submission_gets_i_will/ 06:17:52 AFAICT, PORTAL was meant to be a practical language 06:21:19 http://www.theonion.com/articles/who-was-i-and-why-was-i-important-again,18715/?utm_souce=popbox this is what elliott wants me to be 06:25:04 I still love that the US's national anthem is originally a drinking song. 06:28:43 Mythbusters sez: Sneeze into your elbow. 06:30:04 pikhq says: next performance of the US national anthem, be sure to sing "To Anacreon in Heav'n, where he sat in full glee" ... 06:50:20 I think I should just sneeze on the nearest hatted person 07:02:03 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:10:36 -!- Zuu has joined. 07:22:54 -!- j-invariant has joined. 07:36:18 * Sgeo suddenly realizes the obvious reason that shutup wasn't talking 07:36:36 Shut up about shutup! 07:36:39 ^^not real 07:36:44 which was? 07:36:54 oerjan, elliott not being online to run the bot 07:37:06 ah. 07:37:09 And updog's presense here disproves my theory 07:37:09 What's updog? 07:37:24 Unless... shutup gets its cues from elliott's client 07:37:34 hm i thought it could be updog too... 07:37:34 What's updog? 07:37:39 Factor 07:37:47 shutup is, in fact, awake 07:38:04 you got a response? 07:38:06 Yeah 07:38:16 Don't know why I didn't get a response earlier 07:38:20 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 07:38:29 Is the current vocab system the final system that will be in Factor 1.0? 07:38:35 hm 07:38:43 Factor 1.0? 07:38:43 07:38:53 Factor 07:38:56 AW 07:38:58 Smalltalk 07:39:05 No responses 07:39:16 Active Worlds 07:39:20 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 07:39:36 * Sgeo glares at the kicked updog menacingly 07:39:44 Well, at least we know that oerjan kicks dogs 07:40:32 So yeah, updog feeds shutup 07:44:22 So now you can speak freely! 07:44:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 07:46:02 Got yet another Spam IM with a suspicious message 07:46:08 This time, I plan on clicking 07:46:11 [in a VM] 07:46:18 * Sgeo downloads TinyCore 07:51:14 Now, as soon as I figure out how to install a browser on this thing 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:28 * Sgeo gets it working 08:02:50 It's a thing claiming to give a free Blackberry Torch 08:13:49 Started lagging out :/ 08:14:01 Also started fearing that maybe Freenode decided I was a spammer or somesuch 08:14:09 what do you expect to get from it? 08:14:40 j-invariant, was expecting malware or ... what do those fake contest things DO, exactly? 08:15:02 I don't really know either 08:21:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:21:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:52:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specker_sequence 09:39:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: ilua). 10:09:36 -!- j-invariant has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:38:00 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:38:21 -!- augur has joined. 11:45:53 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:58:15 -!- cheater99 has joined. 12:05:29 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:05:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:10:01 It's distressing that I couldn't figure out how to change the resolution in SLAX 12:10:02 :/ 12:10:27 Your FACE is distressing. 12:10:36 As is your blood furry costume. 12:12:42 http://tinymelinux.com/doku.php/download#bittorrent-recommended 12:12:50 I don't see a torrent on that page 12:12:52 WTF 12:17:38 -!- cheater99 has joined. 12:19:34 VirtualBox is beginning to piss me off 12:39:27 SimplyMEPIS has THREE seeders 12:39:27 at least it's not doing anything unexpected 12:39:30 That's depressing 12:39:46 Even f****n JOLICLOUD has more 12:39:48 what's simplymepis? (i can't use the web right now) 12:39:55 Linux distro 12:40:06 why is it relevant? 12:40:19 Because I'm exploring Linux distros right now 12:40:43 Or.. did you mean for this channel? 12:40:50 i meant for this conversation 12:40:55 what have you found to be noteworthy so far? 12:41:14 The download hasn't finished yet 12:41:32 but you may have tried other linuces 12:41:43 SLAX is still using KDE 3.something 12:42:00 Saw something in the forums suggesting that it doesn't have latest ntfs-3g or somesuch 12:42:11 ok 12:42:17 anything else? 12:42:20 TinyCore boots up REALLY FRIGGEN FAST 12:42:31 i mean as far as *interesting* things, not "things that ubuntu does easily" 12:42:33 oh ok 12:42:33 cool 12:42:50 keep goin 12:42:51 :) 12:44:10 I've decided that my honeymoon with VirtualBox is over. 12:44:14 what other distros have you tried? 12:44:17 I'm about to download VMWare Server 12:44:46 Recently, or in the past? 12:44:53 recently 12:45:23 Um, just TinyCore and SLAX 12:45:27 to me it feels like most distros try and fail at copying several of the big ones 12:45:33 slackware, gentoo, debian/ubuntu 12:45:37 redhat 12:50:31 Dear VMWare: I live in Schenectady. Love, Sgeo. 12:50:48 [Note: I do not live in Schenectady] 12:51:30 you got em so tricked 13:06:13 They do seem to check that the city you put in is real 13:06:28 I didn't test whether or not it requires the matching ZIP code 13:06:43 I put in 12345, which is for General Electric in Schnectady 13:08:25 Sgeo, why on earth would you try this many distros? 13:08:49 To find one I like! 13:09:27 What don't you like about every major one? 13:09:52 * Sgeo misparsed that at first 13:10:26 Relatively stupid stuff, mostly 13:11:01 Only one I ever HATED that I can remember is Linux XP 13:11:14 Oh, "major" 13:16:31 Why does VMWare Server feel a need to download a Java Runtime Environment? 13:16:45 VirtualBox maybe I'd understand 13:17:03 * Sgeo wants to shoot Su.. oh wait, Oracle did that and is now being evil 13:34:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:40:41 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:43:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:43:57 So: VMWare Server now makes your computer into a server, and the UI is a webpage 13:44:02 Why didn't I see this coming? 13:47:52 Sgeo, because visibility inside your blood fursuit is poor. 13:48:18 * Phantom_Hoover restarts XChat to get the bloody thing to register my default nick changes. 13:48:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:48:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:49:59 I'm pretty sure pikhq warned me about this, but I ignored him because I thought he was talking about crappy internal architecture 13:52:37 -!- cheater99 has joined. 14:04:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:05:03 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:17:44 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:24:08 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:24:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Changing host). 14:24:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:24:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:30:23 -!- Behold has joined. 14:32:24 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:33:46 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:35:37 * Sgeo lols at the existence of ipv6-literal.net 14:45:14 -!- azaq23 has joined. 14:55:45 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:59:23 fizzie, there? 15:00:06 fizzie, a question about mcmap: does water really block tp? Because when you ended up sub-surface in an unloaded chunk tp out of there would be /very/ useful 15:01:45 -!- Behold has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:03:43 No, it doesn't. 15:03:52 I'll fix that thing at some point. 15:03:54 -!- Behold has joined. 15:04:39 how's that win version coming 15:05:22 would be nice to get home, i managed to convince myself i had a way to look at coordinates as much as i like, and decided to take a random walk 15:05:41 oklopol, you can use f3 to see coords 15:05:41 then turns out once i started using my great idea, i had a constant amount of look-ups :D 15:05:45 no you can't 15:05:50 oklopol, what? 15:05:51 or you can, 5 times in a game 15:06:02 oklopol, not you confused me 15:06:05 now* 15:06:14 a red square goes on top of the numbers 15:06:24 oklopol, ah yes, I heard that was a problem on smaller screens 15:06:25 You just have a too small window. 15:06:26 grows 15:06:39 oklopol, the graph thingy I assume? 15:06:43 too small resolution more like 15:07:01 oklopol, it is fine with a maximised window on my 24" desktop monitor ;) 15:07:03 Anyhows, I don't know about the win binary, did it not work? 15:07:15 as i said, this is a very old crt 15:07:27 oh i didn't know it existed yet 15:07:41 It is probably very buggy. 15:08:04 http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-win.zip if I remember right. 15:08:19 The no-map mode might work if you just need a //goto. 15:08:46 For me it crashed on //goto, but it looked like it actually teleported first, so it might sorta-work. 15:08:47 all i want is to look at coordinates 15:08:51 Oh. 15:09:05 Well, I don't think that works in nomap mode yet. 15:09:20 I can fixize that after I get home. 15:09:41 fizzie, a feature request would be to turn the second letter of the command prefix into a #define or command line option. I was trying out a hmod plugin on my local test server that uses // as prefix. I patched it locally but it seems rather hackish. And // is a good default for most people. 15:09:49 i have to constantly look up to know where north is, because i can't see any landmarks with tiny, and it's very hard to keep track locally because whenever i move my mouse, one second later, all that is collected into a random turn 15:10:03 oklopol, //compass ? 15:10:04 err 15:10:08 /compass 15:10:09 rather 15:10:15 There is a /compass command, right. 15:10:15 hmod provides it 15:10:18 (constantly look up and switch to normal) 15:10:23 oh cool 15:10:26 It tells you which way you are looking at. 15:10:37 Doesn't tell you where you are, though. 15:11:29 oklopol, helping on the drainage operation? 15:11:53 maybe when i randomly find my way back, and no, i don't want your help and annoying comments 15:12:01 Phantom_Hoover, idea: get worldedit hmod plugin. stand next to water, use //drain 128 15:12:27 Vorpal, hmm. I think elliott might object to that. 15:12:44 It's too close to using a map editor. 15:12:58 Phantom_Hoover, worldedit *is* an in-game map editor 15:13:00 btw there was a random boat in the water, i decided to steal it since they are practically free 15:13:14 that was a few blocks south 15:13:17 Vorpal, OK, so he's not going to accept that/ 15:13:20 oklopol, in the water where btw? 15:13:22 hard to assess 15:13:24 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:13:31 south from cube 15:13:44 Phantom_Hoover, it works better than the free standing ones I tried. 15:13:53 Vorpal, that is not the point. 15:14:08 also, i should probably continue playing, i just randomly bumped into one of your bridges 15:14:11 Phantom_Hoover, indeed, I didn't claim it was. Was just a general statement. 15:14:12 The point of this is to build it with legitimate-but-for-kits methods. 15:14:14 i love this game 15:14:22 hours of walking in the dark and suddenly: bridge. 15:14:27 oklopol, bridges hm. Must be near spawn? 15:14:33 oklopol, or wait. Very far south? 15:15:02 oklopol, do you have an in-game compass (those always point towards spawn) 15:15:11 gonna try to see if there's something familiar there, being near spawn has been a rather confusing experience, since i've always been following a guy who randomly jumps 30 blocks at a time and calls me a retard 15:15:15 using that and /compass you could tell general direction from spawn 15:15:22 oklopol, if you don't have a compass I can give you one. 15:15:39 Phantom_Hoover, same. But I have to do some RL stuff now. bbs 15:15:46 might be fun i guess, i wish there was an in-game coordinate gadget 15:16:50 Vorpal: i'm not very far south anymore, see i tried to get back by going north, but then i just ended up playing with the boat till i got lost 15:17:02 because it was so much fun 15:17:07 oklopol, hm 15:17:40 i've always just swim, but when i suddenly found a boat, was hard not to try it 15:17:41 oklopol, well there is f3 ;P 15:17:42 *i 15:18:02 oklopol, they are quite hard to control when laggy 15:18:05 well this is the biggest resolution i've got, and the crt is already blurring things a lot 15:18:09 oklopol, they work a lot better in single player thus 15:18:23 well i have both lag and very low fps 15:18:57 my internet is crappy, i have a very old crt, and my computer is a tiny little laptop not exactly meant for gaming, can't handle most flash games 15:19:46 oklopol, you have a CRT laptop? 15:20:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 15:26:33 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:30:10 fizzie, "bus error" when trying to connect sometimes, randomly pretty much. 15:38:29 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 15:54:43 -!- j-invariant has joined. 16:02:39 oklopol, ah yes, I heard that was a problem on smaller screens 16:02:42 No it isn't. 16:03:01 It's a measure of CPU load. 16:03:05 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:04:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:08:10 Phantom_Hoover, well on a large screen it never goes on top of the coords. even when the CPU is bogged down by mc 16:11:17 In my vertically oriented window it does not seem to be a problem either. 16:11:33 Does it scale the text too or just the GUI elements? 16:11:59 Vorpal, are you disconnected? 16:12:06 Phantom_Hoover, I lost connection it seems 16:12:07 -!- azaq23 has quit (Changing host). 16:12:07 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:12:13 or lagging out 16:12:22 Phantom_Hoover, down for you too? 16:12:28 Yes. 16:14:08 I just confused "The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai: Across the Eighth Dimension" with Tron 16:14:58 is the new Tron good? 16:15:14 * Sgeo has never seen either Tron or The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai 16:15:23 you have not seen the original Tron? 16:15:48 Correct 16:16:11 ("Is that not so?" "Yes, that is not so.") 16:16:40 WTF, googling for that quote and Pratchett gives nothing 16:16:46 I KNOW I saw it in Thief of Time 16:16:51 it's a good film 16:46:18 -!- cheater99 has joined. 16:46:54 ("Is that not so?" "Yes, that is not so.") <-- 1) without quotes the words are probably too generic to give a good result. 2) with quotes a tiny comma difference or such would probably result in not getting the result 16:47:06 I don't remember that quote btw 16:48:35 The Auditors 16:48:45 They were trying to convince... someone.. of something... 16:49:13 Making excuses for why they weren't eating 16:49:20 It was supposedly against their religion 16:49:29 To eat the food that was being offered 16:59:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:07:57 oerjan! 17:08:25 possibly, possibly 17:08:35 i mean hi 17:08:43 oerjan * (oerjan - 1) * (oerjan - 2) .. 17:11:34 the factorial of oerjan 17:12:16 -!- elliott has joined. 17:13:09 elliott, we know all your secrets! 17:13:17 [Ok, just one] 17:13:39 elliott we missed you in mc 17:14:35 "missed"? 17:15:00 yeah, we were all like if only this guy was here 17:15:18 why, what have you done 17:15:57 im considering buying it 17:15:59 19:58:09 My dad's claiming that with my study habits, I would not have survived at a decent college, and it's the post-graduate college that matters anyway 17:16:01 :S 17:16:01 it involved tnt, stupidity, and the destruction of all your dreams 17:16:02 dunno 17:16:04 Sgeo: your dad claims so many things 17:16:58 see we figured it'd be even faster to torch with tnt, because tnt blows up a much bigger area than a torch 17:18:39 ("Is that not so?" "Yes, that is not so.") <-- 1) without quotes the words are probably too generic to give a good result. 2) with quotes a tiny comma difference or such would probably result in not getting the result 17:18:56 i don't think google considers punctuation much even with quotes 17:18:59 hm did updog crash? 17:19:10 elliott, oerjan kicked it 17:19:14 elliott: WE DID AN EXPERIMENT 17:19:16 Meaning I can say Factor all I want! 17:19:20 what? 17:19:37 Factor Active Worlds Smalltalk Newspeak 17:20:03 ok, looks like updog being kicked broke shutup since they run on the same service supervisor 17:20:05 your point? 17:20:08 elliott: it was FOR SCIENCE 17:20:13 your point? 17:20:28 elliott: well that is what you _say_ 17:20:40 elliott, you're still trying to hide shutup being fed by updog? 17:20:42 shutupdog 17:20:45 It's so obvious now 17:20:55 what is ... obvious about putting two words together 17:21:01 oerjan: are you going to continue to be opaque or are you going to tell me what you're talking about? 17:21:23 elliott: it is obvious that shutup had to get sgeo's channel message information through _someone_ in this channel 17:21:24 what 17:21:41 oerjan: you realise that updog is a0 17:21:44 10 line ruby script? 17:21:57 10 line Ruby scripts can't feed other scripts now/ 17:21:58 ? 17:21:59 and since it didn't shut up when _you_ were away, updog was the main suspect 17:22:14 oerjan: http://sprunge.us/dcFS 17:22:33 i lied, it's actually 12 lines. 17:23:25 Prove it. Run shutup without running updog 17:23:45 that would involve editing the service. also, i don't particularly feel like proving anyhting to you 17:24:12 heh 17:24:17 ok, clearly updog isn't _banned_ 17:24:18 you are SO busted 17:24:37 oerjan: if you're just looking for someone to ban there's plenty of other things you could 17:24:40 of course not, poor updog never did anything wrong 17:24:40 elliott, it was an experiment, not ... bannishment 17:25:02 Such as Sgeo 17:25:40 * Sgeo blinks at extraneous ls 17:25:51 Well, just one l is extraneous 17:26:03 and there's one too much t 17:26:17 oklopol, are you willing to help on the Cube or not? 17:26:27 sure, but perhaps not today 17:26:28 or 17:26:29 at least 17:26:31 not right now 17:26:48 i have Important Things irl 17:27:02 -!- updog has joined. 17:27:07 Factor 17:27:10 Huh 17:27:17 Guess shutup isn't awake yet 17:27:21 whoops, what's that, your stupid conspiracy theory isn't true?!! ZOMG 17:27:25 and shutup has been online all this time 17:27:25 well shutup it _there_ 17:27:34 "Idle: 9:48:43" 17:27:48 it broke because shutup is run on the same service to conserve memory on my _256 MiB_ vps, tyvm 17:28:01 Sgeo: you _do_ realize it is trivial for elliott to change anything and even lie about what code he is running if he wishes? 17:28:05 meaning their network connections interact rather oddly 17:28:18 oerjan: are you going to continue being paranoid? 17:28:31 what's this shutup thinm 17:28:35 *g 17:28:36 elliott, the other explanation for how shutup works is... magic? 17:28:41 i got stuck in minecraft mode 17:28:49 oklopol, whenever I say certain things, shutup tells me to shutup 17:28:49 if you don't _mind_, i'd like to restart it so that shutup starts working again 17:28:53 elliott: not really. but the fact that shutup has to get its information from _someone_ in the channel remains. i doubt you have a freenode server running. 17:28:53 but i won't bother if you're going to kick updog 17:28:54 What's updog? 17:29:07 in pm? 17:29:12 oklopol, yes 17:29:21 okay 17:29:43 oerjan: so are you going to ban updog if i restart the instance so that shutup unbreaks? 17:29:44 What's updog? 17:29:56 I think I've said Factor Smalltalk Active Worlds etc. etc. more now that shutup exists... 17:29:57 elliott: that was only for an experiment. there is no point in repeating it. 17:30:22 -!- updog has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:30:34 o.O? 17:30:39 since Sgeo can ignore shutup any time he wants, i see no point in actually intervening. 17:30:41 i'm restarting them, as i said. 17:32:07 -!- updog has joined. 17:32:42 oerjan, did you kick it? 17:32:50 Vorpal: yes 17:33:13 Vorpal, updog was kicked for an experiment to see if shutup would stop reacting to my Newspeak and Active Worlds obsessions 17:33:13 What's updog? 17:33:18 oerjan, because that should leave it connected. Meaning that nonsense about network connections interacting seem even less plausible than if it had been disconnected 17:33:24 shutup now gives notices 17:33:37 Vorpal: I'm really uninterested in conspiracy theories. 17:33:48 elliott, so how does it work then? Just wondering. 17:33:59 Vorpal: well it's not _entirely_ implausible that it caused something in elliott's setup to break ;D 17:33:59 if I told you, what fun would it be for me? 17:34:02 cool minecrafpt works 17:34:17 j-invariant: if you buy it, you can come on our server and do menial work on the cube forever 17:34:23 Sgeo, seriously, did you actually go to a crap college because your dad said so? 17:34:30 hehe well I can try to connect now 17:34:36 j-invariant: if it's a pirated copy it won't work 17:34:42 Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo does everything because his dad said so 17:34:44 no I bought it 17:34:50 I wasn't aware it would be crap, but I pretty much went there because my dad said to 17:34:57 j-invariant: ah. ask ineiros for the address 17:34:58 Sgeo, Christ... 17:35:08 Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo regularly checks with his dad if it's OK to keep breathing. 17:35:21 j-invariant: you neither have Finn privilege or South African privilege so you have to go through normal channels 17:35:22 The worst part is that there's actually an intelligent person in there somewhere, kept down by a barrage of conditioned stupidity. 17:36:31 Vorpal: i can even imagine him being honest about what code updog is running, as long as he has something listening in between :) 17:36:31 What's updog? 17:36:53 although i don't precisely know how to do that myself 17:37:02 oerjan: or maybe -- JUST maybe -- it works in a way you haven't thought of yet 17:37:26 elliott, you said it doesn't read logs on the web... does it use mercurial at all? 17:37:28 elliott: well listening to one of the logs i think would be too resource intensive 17:37:29 I have this ominous feeling that is was a huge mistake to buy this and I will not have any time for anything else :| 17:37:39 Sgeo: no, gregor would know if it did 17:37:40 j-invariant: YUP 17:37:44 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:37:45 oh you've already denied that 17:37:51 j-invariant: welcome to the rest of your life 17:38:43 elliott: i can imagine many ways to set it up, but no plausible ones that don't require an accomplice on the channel 17:38:59 of course it doesn't have to be updog. 17:39:00 What's updog? 17:39:07 i am master of the implausible 17:39:20 but it _is_ suspicious that it stopped when i kicked updog. 17:39:21 What's updog? 17:40:03 Of course, if elliott wanted, he could switch it over to him then remove updog, as a "demonstration" that it wasn't updog 17:40:04 What's updog? 17:40:14 hey, we have lambdabot 17:40:23 Sgeo: yeah 17:40:23 yes, permanently too. 17:40:27 ooh 17:40:29 Sgeo: zomg, you should like, write an essay about that 17:40:33 about misplaced trust! 17:40:58 How can lambdabot be an accomplice? 17:41:14 elliott, I got a 100% on the essay 17:41:25 Sgeo: and now you are applying your learnings to updog 17:41:26 What's updog? 17:41:32 a question for the ages 17:43:05 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:43:27 >updog< Factor 17:43:27 -shutup- Shut up about Factor! 17:43:27 What's updog? 17:43:39 Sgeo: as i said, sharing the same connection 17:43:42 Factor 17:44:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Sgeo_not_really. 17:44:26 ActiveWorlds 17:44:34 -!- cheater99 has joined. 17:45:25 elliott, I'd ask you how that even makes sense in any way whatsoever other than updog being the source, but 17:45:26 What's updog? 17:46:01 Seriously.. are you not running a normal OS on that machine, just wrote your own hastily written network stack? 17:46:12 aww I think my computer is too slow to actually run this game 17:46:21 at a decent speed 17:46:32 j-invariant: go into options 17:46:35 rendering distance short or tiny 17:46:37 graphics on fast 17:46:40 (not fancy) 17:46:43 which game? 17:46:47 Minecraft 17:46:47 copumpkin: minecrack. 17:46:51 ah 17:47:07 silly haskell invaders, this is secretly #minecraft 17:47:17 lol 17:47:19 I've noticed 17:47:29 how do you know i don't give him the logs 17:47:38 oklopol: OMG DON'T TELL THEM 17:47:40 with a mirc script 17:47:47 Sgeo: i don't know if lambdabot can be an accomplice but that _is_ why i was browsing the channel member listing ;D 17:48:05 oklopol: what the fuck, man, your big chest is actually full 17:48:38 oklopol, well, given the evidence, there's a LOT pointing to updog currently being the accomplice 17:48:38 What's updog? 17:48:48 A parking lot even 17:48:49 >.> 17:49:23 Sgeo: what 17:49:34 elliott, bad pun 17:50:29 elliott: full of sand? 17:50:35 or full of sand and gravel 17:50:39 oklopol: sand and gravel 17:50:43 i just filled it up to the max 17:50:58 a big box full of multiple things is not a pure box, and is useless 17:51:06 oklopol: i didn't put the gravel there 17:51:07 you should make another box for gravel 17:51:11 silly haskell invaders, this is secretly #minecraft <-- actually it is #would-be-offtopic-if-anyone-ever-was-on-topic but freenode limits the name length so we had to go for something else 17:52:15 elliott, how broken is your custom network stack? 17:52:27 Sgeo: pretty broken. also, it's not a "network stack". 17:53:57 You do realize that you're not convincing anyone, right? 17:54:13 http://i.imgur.com/FuYln.jpg 17:54:17 oklopol, why do you actually want a full big box of sand? 17:54:20 is this built programmatically? 17:54:25 Sgeo: i don't care? 17:54:30 j-invariant: might be, might not 17:54:37 j-invariant: not if it's on multiplayer ofc 17:54:44 j-invariant: i can see someone building that by hand 17:54:49 it's not a "huge" project to do so 17:54:52 Sgeo_not_really: i just do alright? :\ 17:55:04 Also, Falcon 17:55:10 -!- Sgeo_not_really has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 17:55:10 I_O 17:55:32 so anyway 17:55:56 sounds likely that the ellipse has been computed unmanually 17:56:04 yeah 17:58:33 Phantom_Hoover, feel free to test shutup by msg'ing updog 17:58:34 What's updog? 17:59:05 he's not called Sgeo, it would do nothing. 17:59:14 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo_. 17:59:18 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo_test. 17:59:23 Factor 17:59:28 Meh, true 17:59:31 -!- Sgeo_test has changed nick to Sgeo. 17:59:40 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo_. 17:59:53 Hmm, would he need to be identified to PM? 18:01:49 oklopol: build us a chest for gravel, i have more sand to put in 18:02:07 i'll build you a forest of chests when i get to it 18:02:24 oklopol: er please don't 18:02:32 i'll plant a 256x256 forest and replace log with chests 18:02:46 ...so you can't open any of them 18:02:48 ;D 18:02:51 :D 18:02:57 * Sgeo_ doesn't get it 18:03:30 oklopol: :D 18:03:52 oklopol: "THIS LARGE CHEST IS FULL OF DIAMOND. TOO BAD I PUT BEDROCK ON TOP." 18:04:05 :D 18:04:22 i've never a diamond box .( 18:04:34 is that a one-eyed sad 18:04:41 yes 18:05:16 * Sgeo_ acts pseudooffended 18:06:06 elliott: how's your linux project 18:06:19 cheater99: which 18:06:39 elliott: there was no specific quantifier :-D 18:06:45 cheater99, if elliott's telling the truth, AND updog and shutup are running on it... he's failing miserably 18:06:45 What's updog? 18:06:53 Sgeo_: what 18:06:56 Sgeo_: what 18:07:09 cheater99: kitten or installing ubuntu on this laptop or what 18:07:20 i guess ubuntu on laptop 18:07:40 In order for you to be telling the truth about updog not being shutup's source, shutup must be confusing updog's input with its own 18:07:40 What's updog? 18:07:47 Which is a sign of dementia at the OS level 18:08:00 Sgeo_ is dementia 18:08:46 * Sgeo_ suddenly wants DementedOS 18:09:52 elliott: how is ubuntu laptop coming along? 18:10:09 cheater99: not at all until someone responds to my ubuntuforums post 18:10:19 * Sgeo_ wonders when he'll receive the email from PayPal describing why, exactly, someone who makes $38/year is not eligible for their credit card thing 18:10:21 which seems unlikely, at this point 18:10:32 Sgeo_: just get a debit card 18:10:57 also, isn't it fairly obvious? 18:11:25 Yes, but still. 18:11:39 Sgeo_: so get a debit card? 18:11:54 oh wait i forgot you'd have to ask your father ... because 21 year olds can't get debit cards 18:11:58 forgot, sorry, ignore me 18:12:51 -!- cal153 has joined. 18:12:51 Sgeo_: just send them money with a bank transfer 18:13:48 oklopol: no he'd have to ask his dad 18:13:52 and his dad thinks bank transfers are bad 18:13:55 obviously 18:17:13 fizzie: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=54784 18:17:16 fizzie: lol 18:17:37 fizzie: I have to say, that animation under Usage is something I would love to see in your mcmap. 18:18:08 elliott, .... tbh I told my dad that I was angry and that I was going to go get a debit card... and he said he'll look into it, he's going to Wal-Mart anyway, so he'll get one for me 18:20:10 i don't get you at all 18:21:02 Well, I could easily have an "surface except up to max-height" mode, but I don't have an isometric view at all. 18:21:39 elliott: how would his dad know if he gets a bank account and makes a transfer 18:21:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:22:05 oklopol: well Sgeo_ would ask him of course 18:22:15 fizzie: psht! 18:23:07 fizzie: i'd add it, except I only do _easy_ work 18:23:19 Oh, that's an offline map-browser thing? The word "live" confused me. 18:23:27 oh, it is? A shame. 18:23:38 fizzie: Having said that... an isometric mode would be amazing... albeit slow. 18:23:53 "From the file menu you can select Worlds 1-5 from single-player minecraft on your system or any world folder, including server worlds." 18:24:37 What; M-x new-frame makes the font reset. 18:25:02 fizzie: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/107712/MCMap%20Screenshots/ss5.png Also this would be nice in real-time. : 18:25:03 :p 18:25:42 I'll consider isometricry and/or other prettification things too. And some sort of block-finder, that could be nice too. 18:26:08 you guys take the venture out of adventure 18:26:21 oklopol: :D 18:26:28 oklopol: i don't actually use mcmap's mapping 18:26:34 i just use it for the //goto 18:26:57 well, i understand that, although i'd prefer minecarts that are easier to use 18:27:28 oklopol: are you _sure_ you're right clicking them :D 18:28:06 you push them, then you right click a random number of times, and hope an odd number of clicks is done, then you wait to see something, and you'll know whether you're in the cart or whether the cart has run away 18:28:28 oklopol: you push them, you right click once, and you wait 18:28:28 hope, because every fifth click works 18:28:36 if it fails it's because ineiros is skyping 18:29:15 okay, so maybe minecarts are special like that 18:29:49 but sometimes it takes me a few minutes to get a click to work 18:30:07 I might just prefer preset warp destinations; maybe I'll have ineiros finally add some when he visits. 18:30:18 god i love complaining about this, i'm like an old lady telling everyone how much her hips her 18:30:23 *hurt 18:30:36 hurt hips her? 18:30:50 her hips hurt her 18:31:09 her hurt hips her 18:31:12 anyway previous is corrected 18:31:12 * Sgeo_ is being sill 18:31:14 y 18:31:23 that works too 18:31:25 Her hip hurt herds her. 18:31:47 04:44:10 I've decided that my honeymoon with VirtualBox is over. 18:31:48 oh god 18:31:51 the marriage breaks down already 18:31:53 I'm weeping 18:32:06 i guess all that cheating on Vorpal VirtualBox did just got too much 18:32:29 elliott, err. What? 18:32:59 Vorpal: Sgeo_ broke up with VirtualBox and started a new love affair with VMWare 18:33:07 I assume it's because of all the time VirtualBox is spending with YOU 18:33:21 elliott, gah. vmware is even worse. Though I am looking for a good alternative to virtualbox what with oracle and so on now 18:33:27 Vorpal: vmware SERVER no less 18:33:31 did inva enter server btw? 18:33:35 oklopol: ? 18:33:39 oklopol: who is inva 18:33:40 oh j-invariant 18:33:44 I decided to shoot VMWare Server before I ever touched her 18:33:51 oklopol: i'm telling him to ask ineiros, but you could just tell j-invariant the address 18:33:52 \Sigma^*inva\Sigma^* 18:33:55 you're oklopol so nobody would blame you 18:34:07 elliott, I used that.. back before virtualbox exited (or at least before it was well known). But yeah it is annoying. And isn't modern versions browser based too 18:34:09 :D 18:34:12 (never used modern versions) 18:34:13 tru 18:34:14 Vorpal: yup! 18:34:25 Vorpal, yes. Yes it is. 18:34:27 05:49:59 I'm pretty sure pikhq warned me about this, but I ignored him because I thought he was talking about crappy internal architecture 18:34:31 water blocks toilet paper, yup 18:34:34 erm 18:34:35 07:00:06 fizzie, a question about mcmap: does water really block tp? Because when you ended up sub-surface in an unloaded chunk tp out of there would be /very/ useful 18:34:57 07:05:22 would be nice to get home, i managed to convince myself i had a way to look at coordinates as much as i like, and decided to take a random walk 18:34:59 you have a home now? 18:35:11 07:06:14 a red square goes on top of the numbers 18:35:11 07:06:24 oklopol, ah yes, I heard that was a problem on smaller screens 18:35:12 :D 18:35:13 it isn't the fucking screen size 18:35:14 it's cpu usage 18:35:16 sorry, temporary home 18:35:18 more cpu usage = it blocks the indicator 18:35:20 VMware Server before their *revolting* AJAX UI wasn't bad. 18:35:22 i don't have any place yet 18:35:42 It wasn't the greatest thing ever, but it had an entirely usable and working GTK UI, and it just plain worked. 18:35:49 elliott, actually screen size matters too, this system is bogged down under mc, but the screen is large. 18:35:56 Now, it doesn't fucking work and it HAS ITS OWN COPY OF EVERYTHING 18:36:02 oh well obviously mc uses up all my cpu, so maybe i should just force it to be low while reading coords 18:36:21 oklopol: or just use mcmap and //coords when fizzie makes a working windows binary :p 18:36:25 07:12:01 Phantom_Hoover, idea: get worldedit hmod plugin. stand next to water, use //drain 128 18:36:28 Vorpal: cuboid plugin does that. 18:36:29 oh right 18:36:33 but yeah, no. 18:36:42 "minecraft would be so much better if we didn't have to mine or craft!" 18:36:46 oklopol: Did you try out the win-binary, incidentally? 18:36:49 "or explore" 18:36:51 fizzie: he just wants coords 18:36:58 07:08:19 The no-map mode might work if you just need a //goto. 18:36:58 07:08:46 For me it crashed on //goto, but it looked like it actually teleported first, so it might sorta-work. 18:36:58 07:08:47 all i want is to look at coordinates 18:36:59 07:08:51 Oh. 18:37:00 i have a windows binary, forgot about ti 18:37:01 07:09:05 Well, I don't think that works in nomap mode yet. 18:37:03 07:09:20 I can fixize that after I get home. 18:37:05 TO QUOTE THE LOGS 18:37:07 fizzie: HOME YET 18:37:34 elliott, cuboid is less well written from what I read. Not quite notch quality but buggier definitely. (And worldedit has more features as well.) 18:37:44 oh okay 18:38:02 Vorpal: i only know cuboid from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaigDxHBKbA, which is my favourite video ever 18:38:02 elliott: Well, you do get coords in the mappy mode, but I guess that's less likely to work. Anyway, just came home. 18:38:16 Cute. 18:38:21 Vorpal: so if worldedit can do that then SURE 18:38:22 pikhq: what's cute 18:38:31 Sony claims they'll be "fixing the issues" with the PS3 using a network update. 18:38:52 rofl 18:39:23 pikhq, I should have listened to you 18:39:26 I'm so sorry 18:39:32 pikhq: it can be effective. 18:39:47 Yeah, the only thing that could do anything about this is: adding a new layer of signing onto new games plus a whitelist for all the old games. *On a new revision of hardware.* 18:39:49 pikhq: means that for anyone who hasn't yet homebrew'd the console, the only way to do it is hardware modding 18:40:26 pikhq: i.e., there's three types of machine: updated ones, can't be hacked except by hardware mods; already-hacked ones; and new ones, which are invulnerable 18:40:26 how do you actually play this game? 18:40:27 elliott, can't answer until I watched video. But one think I did was select a huge area (200x200) then expand the selection to bottom of map and replace everything but air with stone. Worked perfectly and as happened so fast it seemed instant. 18:40:29 in an idael situation (for sony) 18:40:30 *ideal 18:40:40 apparently you can build 18:40:44 j-invariant: mine stuff, build a shelter, get armour, find a nice mountain, start a mine 18:40:48 j-invariant: make farms, kill bad things 18:40:51 j-invariant: build interesting stuff 18:40:53 wire it all together 18:40:53 explore 18:40:53 elliott: This, of course, presumes that Sony does it perfectly. 18:40:56 s/think/thing/ 18:41:12 That is, creates new keys and a whitelist, and introduces *no new vulnerabilities*. 18:41:28 oklopol: you should be hideously irresponsible with the server address right now! 18:41:34 Oh, and the new keys would of course have to be in the mask for future CPUs. 18:41:34 or j-invariant could just read the logs i guess :P 18:41:45 and also invalidates the old keys 18:41:47 It'll be several months before we start seeing that. 18:41:56 coppro: "Whitelist". 18:42:13 it's easy to break THAT! 18:42:13 elliott, yes it can fill a selection with lava like that. 18:42:16 pikhq: eh, ok 18:42:22 just make a hacker which has the exact same signature as a legit game. 18:42:23 DUH 18:42:30 oh, also, this totally assumes that they don't use a cracked PS3 to download the update and pick it apart 18:42:30 elliott, something like //set lava after making a selection 18:42:31 Vorpal: i linked it because it was funny not because i thought worldedit couldn't do it 18:42:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:42:51 elliott, oh I must have misinterpreted your line " Vorpal: so if worldedit can do that then SURE" then 18:42:53 All this will only prevent homebrew from happening on new consoles, anyways. 18:43:03 Vorpal: if worldedit can generate SUCH HILARITY then sure. 18:43:09 The update *will have to be* encrypted with the old keys. 18:43:12 Hmm, I guess it's a bit late for me to buy a PS3? 18:43:17 elliott, ah 18:43:19 Sgeo_: not if you do it NOW 18:43:19 pikhq: but then they can break the new keys 18:43:22 Which means that you will *have* the new keys. 18:43:28 since the new keys will have to be encoded in the same way 18:43:31 So piracy on old hardware will happen forever and ever. 18:43:41 so then piracy on new keys will happen the same way 18:43:47 fizzie: i am trying to figure out how to do the packet_id enum in SML sanely :D 18:43:48 damn your C 18:43:50 And there is literally nothing Sony can do about it at all. 18:44:01 j-invariant: there is definitely not the address of the minecraft server in yesterday's logs. 18:44:06 pikhq, you will have the public keys though, which shouldn't be private, so? Oh, unless you intercept it? 18:44:08 elliott: Oh, you're actually doing the ML rewrite? 18:44:09 right oklopol? 18:44:15 fizzie: well i'm... toying with the idea :D 18:44:19 fizzie: it might not actually include the map part 18:44:20 elliott, also worldedit can generate snowfall. Might be useful up around dw's place 18:44:27 Sgeo_: The public keys are sufficient for doing piracy on cracked firmware. 18:44:28 Sgeo_: it's symmetric encryption 18:44:31 iirc 18:44:42 elliott, that seems... stupid 18:44:55 elliott: It's assymmetric, but all PS3s have the public key. 18:44:55 Sony, stupid? haha you lie 18:45:03 would be nice if you could just disable the bad thingies in some areas 18:45:04 Okay, I have now produced a Windows mcmap binary that has working //coords, and it worked for me (in nomap mode) under Wine: http://zem.fi/~fis/mcmap-win.zip 18:45:05 pikhq: mhm 18:45:09 oklopol: fizzie ^ 18:45:14 It's *supposed* to be in a SPU that you can't normally access. 18:45:27 oklopol: "mcmap -cm a322.org:25566" in a cmd window 18:45:32 "The public keys are sufficient for doing piracy on cracked firmware." 18:45:32 oklopol: then connect to 127.0.0.1 with minecraft 18:45:36 oklopol: and do //coords in chat 18:45:39 ...why? 18:45:44 They can just replicate the attack method on the new keys on old hardware, can't they? 18:45:46 How does that make.. I'm confused 18:45:55 coppro: not if sony redoes the encryption without stupid 18:45:58 I think it should have a Win32-specific launch dialog where you enter the host/port and select the options, since aren't Windows users in general rather uncomfortable with the command line? 18:46:02 Sgeo_: Decrypt stuff with the new keys, and run it on firmware that doesn't do the key check. 18:46:34 fizzie: does mcmap give up permanently whenever it sees an invalid password? 18:46:36 coppro: The key revealing actually came because Sony did their signing algorithm retardedly. 18:46:46 I suppose I could have each packet ID written twice (one in the data type, one in an int -> packet_id converter) 18:46:48 oh 18:46:50 coppro: It's actually not anything on the PS3 itself at *all*. 18:46:57 ah, ok 18:47:03 18:45 fizzie: I think it should have a Win32-specific launch dialog where you enter the host/port and select the options, since aren't Windows users in general rather uncomfortable with the command line? 18:47:08 this just makes me want to design some weird 2D cellular automata 18:47:10 fizzie: do you _want_ to encourage clueless windows users to use this? 18:47:20 j-invariant: do it in redstone 18:47:24 Anyways. Sony's "security" architecture is positively retarded. 18:47:25 GoL has been done 18:47:46 in minecaft? I dind't mean in minecraft 18:47:50 Fun fact: with arbitrary code execution *at all*, you can decrypt everything ever even without access to the keys that you shouldn't be able to access. 18:47:52 j-invariant: :D 18:47:56 j-invariant: everything in your life is minecraftn ow 18:47:58 elliott: Market adoption, I hear it's important. And it gives up permanently whenever the TCP connection is closed. (It doesn't look at the login packets otherwise, except for reading the player entity ID out of it.) 18:48:05 fizzie: er invalid packet 18:48:10 The decryption SPU can be used as a decryption oracle so long as you're running code. 18:48:14 fizzie: what does it do if it sees an invalid packet? 18:48:15 give up forever? 18:48:20 "Category theory is a popular framework for expressing abstract properties of 18:48:20 mathematical structures. 18:48:21 " 18:48:25 um. that's one way to put it 18:48:34 Seriously, the PS3 is fucked 15 different ways. 18:48:45 elliott: Well, yes, because it's impossible to guess where the invalid packet would end. I guess it could *try* to resync, but I'm not sure how likely that is to work. 18:48:51 fizzie, elliott is morally opposed to anything that is popular. 18:49:02 Sgeo_: um are you _defending_ Windows 18:49:14 Oh, and there will *be* arbitrary code execution exploits: you write software for it in C. 18:49:16 Or C++. 18:49:21 i'm just saying that the kind of people who won't open cmd.exe to type "mcmap blah" are the kind of people who are going to produce the whining fizzie loathes so 18:49:37 Maybe they can't figure out where to whine. 18:49:48 If they whine, say, on the minecraft forums, that's not a loss for me. 18:49:52 fizzie: Sgeo_'s right here. 18:49:58 fizzie: more seriously-- 18:50:02 fizzie: do you really want to touch the win32 api? :-) 18:50:12 It's been a while; it might be nostalgick. 18:50:14 I hear it is _quite_ loathesome. 18:50:45 I already looked at the dialog resource script file format, it's very awful. (MinGW of course doesn't have a dialog designer thing.) 18:51:26 A Win binary without the mapping feature might not be very popular, though. 18:51:34 fizzie: Just do it all with those OK/Cancel default MsgBoxes. 18:51:35 And of course there's the denial-of-service thing. 18:51:43 fizzie: "Is the first bit of the address 0?" 18:52:20 fizzie: Yes, I think //goto is rather good justification for never letting this out ever. (Even if you removed it, just takes one intrepid commit-logger...) 18:52:29 Especially since it has been verified to do Awful Things. 18:52:57 Can't Notch make //goto ineffective over the relevent distances? 18:53:11 Sgeo_: The reason //goto works is because his server architecture is completely broken. 18:53:20 I do not expect he could redesign it to be less broken, as he is an idiot. 18:53:46 How DOES it work? 18:53:54 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 18:53:55 Again, his todo list hints that //goto is pretty likely to be nerfed in the future. 18:54:32 fizzie: You still haven't shown why really. 18:54:37 Sgeo: Telling you that seems ... unwise. 18:54:38 A simple maximum-speed check for PLAYER_MOVE messages would make it unworkable. 18:54:51 fizzie: What entry in his todo list implies it'll be fixed? 18:54:55 ...it's just PLAYER_MOVE messages? 18:55:21 elliott: The highest-priority "Make the server check for flying, no clip and increased speed." one? 18:55:22 > fix(([1,2]++).drop 2.(uncurry replicate=<<).flip zip(cycle[1,2])) 18:55:23 [1,2,2,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,1,1,2,1,1,2,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,... 18:55:26 Sgeo: It works by sending 20 of them with subtly invalid fields that confuse the server in a specific way. 18:55:31 Sgeo: There, now don't abuse it. 18:55:41 fizzie: Hmm, isn't that from the Classic era? 18:55:47 fizzie: I know flying was ubiquitous then. 18:55:57 fizzie: I don't think noclip is possible with Alpha, but it was with Classic. 18:56:10 Well, the context is "Before beta", so technically speaking all three things should be already done. :p 18:56:13 Back. 18:56:26 (I think he's sort of given up with that toodledo list.) 18:57:07 "While we [Mojang] were doing this [having a strategy meeting], there was a film crew on place (since Monday, actually), documenting and interviewing." 18:57:17 Ooh, expect a "Minecraft: the making of" hip-cumentary. 18:57:26 (It's like a documentary, except more hip.) 18:58:08 Vorpal: have you excavated recently by any chance? 18:58:09 "Oh, and I’ve finally committed the Music Blocks to the repository. 18:58:09 (Oh, wait, no, I didn’t.. Doing so broke git, so we’re changing to svn because git is horrible and evil)" 18:58:19 fizzie: ...did he say that. 18:58:21 fizzie: Did Notch say that. 18:58:26 fizzie: Please tell me Notch didn't say that. 18:58:28 Yes, it's in his glob. 18:58:35 fizzie: I'm going to punch him IRL. 18:58:42 fizzie, when it seems imminent that it will be fixed, we make the server crash bug public and watch the anarchy. 18:58:42 fizzie: He has circlejerks^Wmeetups, right? 18:58:52 Phantom_Hoover: Evil, but ... fun. But evil. 18:58:54 But ... fun ... 18:59:05 I don't know, but probably some sort of events, yes. 18:59:10 *Extremely* fun. 18:59:49 fizzie: OK. So theoretically I could go and punch him. 18:59:52 Unless he has fan bodyguards? 19:01:02 "If this gets a bunch of upvotes, I'll write and record a concept album about Creepers, and release it for free in February." 19:01:05 I am going to punch everyone. 19:01:41 "I'm kind of sad to see him diss git like that. I really enjoy it, and it has lots of advantages over svn. It's a shame he ran into problems. (But.. svn?? There are other options, man! It's not like you're committing large binary files!)" 19:01:45 Now, please, bet on the following statement: 19:01:53 "Notch is committing large binary files to the Minecraft repository." 19:02:54 fizzie: Phantom_Hoover: Also bet on: "Adventure mode will exist in the first post-beta release." 19:03:05 "Music Blocks" does sound pretty much like large binary files. 19:03:34 fizzie: Music blocks is this new block type he's adding. 19:03:39 It toots or something. 19:03:43 Source: Twatter. 19:04:01 Ha, apparently they're trying to "come up with a release date" for Minecraft already. 19:04:08 Vorpal: Are all Swedes stupid, or is my sample size just deficient? 19:04:43 elliott, me and olsner aren't stupid 19:04:50 Oh, right, olsner isn't stupid. 19:04:53 Maybe just most Swedes then. 19:05:11 elliott, why has Notch abandoned Git? 19:05:23 18:57 fizzie: "Oh, and I’ve finally committed the Music Blocks to the repository. 19:05:23 18:57 fizzie: (Oh, wait, no, I didn’t.. Doing so broke git, so we’re changing to svn because git is horrible and evil)" 19:05:26 Because Notch has no brain. 19:05:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:05:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:06:03 Notch has stolen the concept of Minecraft from the world; nobody can ever execute it properly, because the accusations of plagiarism will be non-stop. 19:06:12 I propose a lynching. 19:06:57 elliott, me and olsner aren't stupid <-- you _have_ to be the straight man, don't you? :D 19:07:23 oerjan: i do wonder if he really missed my "subtle" insult, or whether he just decided to ignore it for the sake of anti-comedy 19:07:35 (anti-comedy is not the result of anti-jokes, it is the result of being anti-joke) 19:07:58 anti-jokes are, of course, hilarious. 19:08:55 elliott, FWIW, I added "Complaining About People Not Liking The Show" to MC's TV Tropes page. 19:09:00 Countdown to revert... 19:09:22 Phantom_Hoover: THAT IS A SUBJECTIVE TROPE 19:09:25 br 19:09:28 *brb 19:09:42 Notch's fans seem to be using the Diaspora excuse to excuse his issues 19:10:10 "Was originally a Spiritual Successor of the free Infiniminer" 19:10:19 Zach must fucking hate Notch. 19:10:42 Phantom_Hoover: BTW, Survival Test is now completely gone. 19:14:24 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: snpidcoc). 19:14:35 -!- coppro has joined. 19:15:08 fizzie: Can you force ineiros' IP to change to something really easily-guessable? 19:15:28 back to mc 19:16:07 oklopol: DON'T WORRY IF YOU'RE GOING ON THE SERVER I'M AT THE SPAWN TO HELP GUIDE YOU >:D 19:17:14 fizzie: "Somewhat averted by Alpha Update 1.0.15. Wood and other flammable blocks now catch fire up to three blocks away from lava." 19:17:15 For the rules. 19:17:45 fizzie: Hey, I just realised all the slogan texts are gone, it just says "finally beta now" (just realised: just read on the tv tropes page) 19:17:46 :( 19:20:09 *finally beta" now 19:21:51 " oklopol: DON'T WORRY IF YOU'RE GOING ON THE SERVER I'M AT THE SPAWN TO HELP GUIDE YOU >:D" <<< i am not at spawn tho 19:22:41 Interesting; the "Finally beta!" string comes from a try { ... } catch (Exception e) { l = "Finally beta!"; } code-structure. 19:22:54 fizzie: X-D 19:23:04 Even though the /title/splashes.txt is still there in the .jar. 19:23:10 I don't know how he's hardcodeded it. 19:23:10 Hello again. 19:23:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 19:23:46 Next trope to add to Minecraft: Idiot Programming. 19:24:02 elliott, BtW, http://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Eric_S._Raymond&diff=709079&oldid=708724 19:24:15 Phantom_Hoover: Seen, and mentioned to you ages ago. 19:24:20 It's better than before, so I won't argue. 19:24:22 Oh, you did? 19:24:23 OK. 19:24:24 (before = before i edited) 19:24:49 You could argue that his work in computing is generally respectable. 19:25:10 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, uh, fetchmail. 19:25:12 Respectable. 19:25:13 " oklopol: "mcmap -cm a322.org:25566" in a cmd window" <<< it just tells me how to use mcmap 19:25:16 elliott, *generally*. 19:25:20 Usage: ... 19:25:24 oklopol: what did you type, in full 19:25:30 did ou type -exactly- that :P 19:25:31 *you 19:25:32 copied that exactly 19:25:34 Fetchmail is in the category of embarrassingly wrong. 19:25:40 fizzie: ^ 19:25:55 Someone have a link summing up MC's stupid technical problems? 19:26:02 Oh, no, it doesn't: it actually comes from something like try { ...; l = splashes.get(rnd.nextInt(splashes.size())); goto bleh; } catch (Exception e) { bleh: l = "Finally beta!"; } ... assuming I read the bytecode right. So it actually selects a random splash, then rewrites it with that. 19:26:09 -!- Behold has joined. 19:26:20 Or just a series of links to examples of Notch's idiocy. 19:26:35 oklopol: That's weirdistic. But admittedly I have only tried it with wine. What about "mcmap dummy -cm a322.org:25566"? 19:27:09 Though I guess that won't hep, since it'd anyway just miss the -cm part. 19:27:29 19:25 Phantom_Hoover: Someone have a link summing up MC's stupid technical problems? 19:27:37 Phantom_Hoover: why do you assume the badness of things is always summed up in links 19:27:42 fizzie: ... :D 19:27:47 (I manually split the command line I get from GetCommandLine() at spaces, since that one includes the program name, unlike the WinMain lpCmdLine param.) 19:27:49 elliott, it's for the TV Tropes page. 19:28:05 I want at least *some* evidence before I call Notch an idiot. 19:28:06 I should just figure out how to make mingw build a binary with a traditional "main". 19:28:11 Or add that launcher dialog! 19:28:19 fizzie: Well it's _meant_ to just work. :p 19:28:31 That :D was from the bleh: thing. 19:28:32 Of course. 19:28:59 Yes, but it doesn't want to "just work" for me. 19:29:10 elliott, me and olsner aren't stupid <-- you _have_ to be the straight man, don't you? :D <-- hah 19:29:18 yeah Vorpal isn't gay 19:29:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:29:42 Phantom_Hoover: look at random pages on minecraft wiki, "pigs stopped working after the halloween update due to the texture of cobblestone being changed" 19:30:52 oklopol: <33 19:30:55 please tell me that's true 19:30:55 MinGW crt1.c supposedly has this: 19:30:57 * Call the main function. If the user does not supply one 19:30:57 * the one in the 'libmingw32.a' library will be linked in, and 19:30:57 * that one calls WinMain. See main.c in the 'lib' dir 19:30:57 * for more details. 19:31:01 :D 19:31:02 oklopol: i would really like that to be actually true 19:31:06 oklopol: i can actaully believe it 19:31:09 that would be pretty awesome. 19:31:16 So yes, it's supposed to use a user-supplied main when there is one. 19:31:22 what was that problem with trees inflooping cause by something unrelated 19:31:27 oklopol: turns out he procedurally generated the pig texture based on the cobblestone one, obviously 19:31:31 *caused 19:31:34 and also, stores state in the unused parts of the texture 19:31:34 hehe 19:31:38 elliott, what. 19:31:48 oklopol: or, better: the pig and cobblestone code is completely unrelated 19:31:53 and the pig code doesn't even touch the texture code 19:31:53 at all 19:31:54 OK, that idiot programming trope is going up NOW. 19:31:59 Phantom_Hoover: note: this is lies 19:31:59 :D 19:32:05 elliott, doesn't matter. 19:32:07 Phantom_Hoover: just very true lies 19:32:20 It's still such a crazy bug it qualifies by itself. 19:32:37 Phantom_Hoover: it isn't real 19:33:02 -!- BMG has joined. 19:33:14 Hmm. 19:33:35 Republicans in the House read the US Constitution upon opening the current session of Congress... 19:33:42 *And intentionally omitted parts*. 19:33:51 oaky leaf decay caused infloops in leaves. still kind of weird that was not something he could just quickly fix. 19:33:55 pikhq: :D 19:33:58 elliott: Oh, I think it's a SDL problem, in fact. The SDL.h header does: #if defined(__WIN32__) ... #define main SDL_main ...; and then there's supposed to be some sort of a SDL winmain.c that calls it. How very messy. 19:34:00 -!- Behold has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:34:02 oklopol: ah yes, leaf decay is very oaky. 19:34:05 fizzie: OH YEAH, SDL_main 19:34:09 Including the ⅗ths compromise... 19:34:11 fizzie: I had to do stuff with that once 19:34:17 elliott: where is your ubuntuforums post? 19:34:18 fizzie: just rename main to SLD_main 19:34:20 *SDL_main 19:34:24 cheater99: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1658418 19:34:31 fizzie: for all platforms 19:34:32 (which stated that, for the purposes of the census, a slave will be considered ⅗ths of a person.) 19:34:35 fizzie: and it'll Work Out Perfectly IIRC 19:34:51 if i don't disable the map, what'll happen? 19:34:55 i don't have the balls to try myself 19:34:59 Well, I'd still like some examples of completely stupid bugs. 19:34:59 oklopol: you'll probably die 19:35:04 oklopol: but i'd wait until fizzie fizes :P 19:35:05 *fixes 19:35:11 fizzes 19:35:13 shit 19:35:14 Phantom_Hoover: placing torches on leaves used to only work in fancy...or was it fast 19:35:18 is the shop open i want stuff 19:35:19 but it worked when you put it back 19:35:31 as in they didn't disappear 19:35:56 It pains me to say this, but I can't add the trope with that evidence. 19:36:37 the fact he clearly codes every new enemy from scratch should be evidence enough 19:36:49 there's tons of evidence for that: every object works slightly differently 19:37:00 i meant 19:37:01 *mean 19:37:15 details do, even though the relevant things are the same for them 19:37:39 well, i'm not being very helpful, but the point is it's weird if no one has collected this stuff in a list 19:37:46 there's evidence everywhere 19:38:30 well anyway shoppe tyme 19:40:11 elliott: Well, it only works if with SDL_main if I also statically link in -lSDLmain, and I'm not sure I want to do that. I guess it's sort-of recommended-by-some, but it breaks e.g. the otherwise legal "int main(void)". (And -lSDLmain is not part of SDL's pkg-config flags.) I think I'll just crudely work-around it in the win32 build, that one is allowed to be ugly. 19:40:39 fizzie: Okay, but I think it's like that for a Reason. 19:40:43 fizzie: SDL needs special initialising on win32 I think. 19:41:54 took a random page: "Currently, slimes cannot spawn naturally, but this will most likely be fixed." <<< why the fuck do they have their own spawning code? 19:42:06 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 19:42:27 and what the fuck is hard about using a function to calculate prob of appearing from height, and then adding a certain kind of tile on the map 19:42:31 -!- BMG has quit (Changing host). 19:42:31 -!- BMG has joined. 19:42:34 maybe he wants to make them into puddings 19:42:34 how the fuck can you have a bug in that 19:42:34 -!- BMG has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 19:44:52 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:46:05 So did oko get it started or what actually happened? 19:46:40 fizzie: Get what started. 19:46:45 He's not on the server at least. 19:46:46 mcmap. 19:47:47 fizzie: Well, he hasn't tried it since the first error afaik. 19:47:57 This time I got even the mappy version started, and there's a map and all, but then it hung up after two chat messages and downloading most of the initial chunks. 19:48:07 (In Wine.) 19:48:32 Something is probably wrong there, but Wine-testing is so crummy. 19:49:16 He can try the same URL again, it has a "regular" main now so maybe the command line args work too. (Then again, maybe not.) 19:49:20 hmm, according to Slashdot, converting the string "2.2250738585072011e-308" into a floating point number sends PHP 5.2 and 5.3 into an infinite loop 19:49:32 so it's not /just/ Excel that has problems with float stringification 19:49:48 again, you wonder how that was discovered... 19:51:22 ais523: welcome to three days ago 19:51:27 oklopol: redownload it 19:53:57 elliott: have you tried resizing the existing mac partition(s) and putting a new partition on there? 19:54:08 erm 19:54:11 on the hard drive.. 19:55:01 cheater99: Uhh, I did that before any of this ... you do realise my issue is actually getting the LiveCD booted, right? 19:55:03 Well, liveUSB. 19:55:24 elliott: so you don't want ubuntu permanently on your laptop? 19:55:39 cheater99: You have a way to install Ubuntu without booting the live media now? 19:55:45 I'm not about to use Wubi. 19:55:50 elliott: yes 19:55:53 cheater99: orly. 19:56:00 elliott: install ubuntu on another computer, and clone the partition over 19:56:04 i've done that 1304758203475 times 19:56:06 cheater99: not an option. 19:56:09 why? 19:56:23 I don't have any even vaguely-similar hardware. plus, the fstab would be fucked up and probably all kinds of shit would break subtly. 19:56:28 (since the fstab uses guids nowadays.) 19:56:32 the hardware doesn't matter 19:56:36 oklopol, elliott: If it still doesn't work, I'll just build a windows binary that hardcodes the command line options. 19:56:42 i've been swapping the same hard drive between 3 different cpu architectures 19:56:51 cheater99: cpu is irrelevant. 19:56:53 it works straight away (well i have to reboot once) 19:56:58 cheater99: for instance 19:57:01 cheater99: bootloader installation 19:57:03 I have no other EFI machines 19:57:05 yes 19:57:13 bootloader is different 19:57:14 but! 19:57:27 i believe there is the grub installer for macos too 19:57:46 cheater99: yeaaaah no, it's probably grub-efi 19:57:47 which sucks 19:57:59 you can tell it to install grub on disk n partition k and it does it all automagically 19:57:59 i really only want to go the live-media route. 19:58:02 it should not be difficult. 19:58:14 what's grub-efi and why is it bad? 19:58:15 macos is what mcdonald's calls tacos 19:58:25 cheater99: grub-efi is grub-efi and it's bad because linux efi support sucks 19:58:35 what's efi? 19:58:53 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:58:54 i'm not apple-compatible, i don't know those things 19:59:01 hah 19:59:10 waiting for connection 19:59:28 -!- elliott has joined. 19:59:29 cheater99: if you don't know what efi is, the chances of you being able to help me are close to 0. 19:59:34 considering it's basically the entire problem 19:59:44 elliott: well if you explain it to me then i will know it! 19:59:56 oklopol: When it says "waiting for connection", it means you have to start minecraft and connect to 127.0.0.1. 20:00:05 (Or presumably "localhost".) 20:00:05 cheater99: dentistry is about toothcare. can you give me a filling? 20:00:07 i know! 20:00:15 elliott: i can try! :D 20:01:15 elliott: so you don't want grub at all, yes? 20:01:25 yes, i do 20:01:35 i want normal grub, as the ubuntu live media installs perfectly on macs when it is booted. 20:01:51 elliott: i don't think it's a special grub that there is 20:02:01 elliott: erm, that sounded funny 20:02:12 cheater99: Yes, there is, grub-efi. 20:02:18 I _do_ know this shit. 20:02:29 elliott: what about running ubuntu in parallels 20:02:38 i want to run ubuntu as my main os. also, parallels is crap. 20:02:47 i mean just once 20:02:58 elliott: you can run it in parallels, have the normal grub install stuff, and you could boot ubuntu. 20:03:00 maybe. 20:03:26 cheater99: considering parallels emulates a "normal" BIOS PC, I'd put the chances of that working fairly low ... but more importantly, I don't think parallels can read/write to an existing system partition 20:04:12 can you on mac set another partition as "bootable" like on pcs? 20:04:40 -!- pumpkin has joined. 20:05:51 cheater99: umm, sort of. but that wouldn't help. 20:06:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:06:17 but then you could write grub to just the linux partition, and make that partition bootable ("sort of") 20:06:20 and maybe it could work? 20:06:21 when someone talks, it crashes, i think 20:06:29 fizzie: you didn't make it use readline did you 20:06:33 oklopol: I've noticed something like that too. 20:06:35 cheater99: i already wrote grub to a partition, sort of 20:06:35 elliott: No. 20:06:39 i could only find a floppy image of grub 1 20:06:46 it doesn't help :) 20:07:06 i think maybe grub 2 could be better, sort of? 20:07:16 Most of console.c's #ifdef'd out, it just uses the "write to file descriptor 1" approach of consolying. 20:07:28 (It shouldn't have the readline thread started or anything.) 20:07:42 Yes this is fixable by doing a smc reset. This should fix your USB ports: 20:07:42 Note: Portable computers that have a battery you should not remove on your own include MacBook Pro (Early 2009) and later, all models of MacBook Air, and MacBook (Late 2009). 20:07:42 1. Shut down the computer. 20:07:42 2. Plug in the MagSafe power adapter to a power source, connecting it to the Mac if its not already connected. 20:07:43 3. On the built-in keyboard, press the (left side) Shift-Control-Option keys and the power button at the same time. 20:07:46 4. Release all the keys and the power button at the same time. 20:07:50 5. Press the power button to turn on the computer. Note: The LED on the MagSafe power adapter does not change states or temporarily turn-off when you reset the SMC. 20:07:53 Source: 20:07:55 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964 20:08:07 cheater99: what is that from. you could have just linked me. 20:08:17 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1465614 20:08:25 last post 20:08:27 it sounds suspiciously similar to "ZAP THE PRAM" of yore 20:08:42 cheater99: yeah no, my usb ports work fine. 20:08:45 "Hrrrrm...I'm having a problem with the superdrive version. After about a few minutes of booting from the Live-CD (both Ubuntu 10.04 and an old version of Gparted) the superdrive goes dead and the usb port will not work again without a COPS reset. When booted into OS X the superdrive works fine copying whole data DVD's onto the harddrive... any thoughts?" 20:08:48 the usb ports work absolutely fine 20:09:02 maybe they only stop working when you're trying to boot 20:09:02 :D 20:09:03 Phantom_Hoover: there's a guy in scotland i need you to kill 20:09:10 but yea 20:09:15 elliott, who? 20:09:21 Phantom_Hoover: http://mikemcquaid.com/ 20:09:58 which version of macbook air do you have? 20:10:00 Can't be bothered sifting through the blog; outline why he needs to die. 20:10:21 he's complaining about my commit for stupid reasons and is a dick in other pull requests 20:10:22 https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/pull/3817 20:10:31 cheater99: the latest one 20:10:35 cheater99: it is literally days old 20:10:38 so that's 3.2? 20:10:41 yes 20:10:42 3,2 20:10:43 not 3.2 20:11:06 it sounds like the time i have created a reset button for my commodore 20:11:08 erm 20:11:09 Phantom_Hoover: tl;dr imagine if you packaged ghc in a source distro, using the binaries like some other packages do in the source distro, rather than actually building from source, 20:11:12 EFI booting is explained in Brian Tarricones MacBookAir3,1 Gentoo install report : http://spurint.org/misc/installing-g...-macbookair31/ 20:11:12 Basically, it requires a patch to force EFI booting in physical mode rather than virtual mode. 20:11:13 It's a very interesting read for anyone tweaking his/her MBA3,* 20:11:19 Phantom_Hoover: and you got a complaint when submitting it: 20:11:19 source: http://art.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10202692 20:11:25 Phantom_Hoover: "Please use the binaries to build GHC from source." 20:11:38 Phantom_Hoover: i.e.: "Make lots of computation happen to produce bit-identical binaries." 20:11:45 Phantom_Hoover: note that there is no customistaion of the build possible in this case 20:11:47 *customisation 20:11:55 Phantom_Hoover: this is exactly what's happening, except it's MLton which is basically the same 20:12:14 technically MLton builds with SML/NJ, but no point downloading another compiler to build a really-slow bootstrapper. 20:12:33 elliott: also, are you using the usual installation iso for ubuntu, or the "alternative cd"? 20:12:50 cheater99: the usual iso, and i don't want to use the alternative cd. i have an ethernet adapter so i can use that for the install. 20:13:03 i don't want to efi boot, as i've said 20:13:11 elliott: there are people saying that they couldn't succeed with the usual but alternative worked 20:13:13 [[If you ever make it to Sedona, AZ, I owe you a beer. Why doesn't the wiki say "You just spent an insane amount of money on Apple hardware, save yourself some pain and spring for the Superdrive and ethernet dongle" then direct folks to the Alternate CD? Would have saved me much aggravation. Thanks.]] 20:13:15 CD DRIVES IN 2010 20:13:27 i don't want to spend 60 fucking pounds just to install ubuntu 20:13:43 is alternative going to do efi boot? 20:14:07 cheater99: i mean re that thing you quoted 20:14:13 oh yea 20:14:40 when i bought this i kinda assumed that ubuntu had improved mac support since 2007/2008 20:14:41 siiiigh 20:14:49 (i realise it's not really their fault but still) 20:15:36 i think in london you can also loan out mac hardware probably 20:15:57 i'm not in london. and why would i want to do that 20:16:06 i thought you were in london? 20:16:09 where are you then? 20:16:29 up north 20:16:33 oh 20:16:53 i was gonna say go to the mac store off oxford circus and nag them until they give you a superdrive for a sec 20:17:02 but that's not to be :D 20:18:54 fizzie: i just wrote packet id parsing functions, then realised that this packet_type thing should really just be a packet ADT :D 20:19:08 fizzie: except that translating that from your C will be fun since you don't name any of the packet items 20:19:53 You could use that Haskell implementation as a base, it has data-type-ish packets. Though I don't think I really saw much names there either. 20:20:08 ais523: was it you i discussed zooko's triangle with? maybe not 20:20:14 fizzie: well i don't actually need names come to think of it 20:20:16 fizzie: got a link to that haskell? 20:20:32 I'm not sure if it's updated to the beta protocol. 20:21:32 I got the early protocol bits from https://gist.github.com/727175 -- then the rest from that one wiki.) 20:21:34 (Away now.) 20:21:49 fizzie: Hmm, wait, I'll have to parse every parser manually won't I if I do this. 20:23:13 fizzie: Erm, that is, I'll have to parse even similar-parametered ones separately. 20:23:15 Heh, it uses She. 20:23:17 *SHE. 20:23:19 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:25:27 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:31:34 do sha512 digests ever contain nul bytes? 20:31:54 of course they do 20:33:35 are you suuuure :D 20:33:40 elliott, where does that guy you want me to kill live? 20:33:46 Phantom_Hoover: scotland. 20:33:59 Phantom_Hoover: specifically, broughty ferry. 20:34:14 The same place as Bob Servant! 20:35:07 void packet_free(gpointer packet); 20:35:11 fizzie: Shouldn't that be packet_t *? 20:35:42 * Phantom_Hoover realises that he has no idea where Dundee actually *is*. 20:36:13 Oh, north of Fife. 20:36:58 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if he can get the Operative to kill him. 20:37:21 OTOH, she refused to kidnap Edwin Brady, even though that would be far less work, so that's not likely. 20:37:37 I would guess approximately 22.16% of SHA-512 digests contain at least one 0 byte. 20:38:05 * Phantom_Hoover remembers, with growing horror, that he has a copy of The Emperor's New Mind. 20:38:21 elliott: It's a gpointer so that it can be used as a free-func in one of the containers, I forget where. (Probably the queues.) 20:40:36 elliott, also, you're re-hired as HHI Selector Of Components. 20:40:44 Phantom_Hoover: What do they do. 20:40:57 elliott, remember? For the computeer? 20:41:00 *computer 20:41:04 Phantom_Hoover: Oh god. 20:41:22 base(n, "0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstvuwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ") 20:41:29 anyone got a longer digit set that doesn't have ugly shit in it? :) 20:42:05 elliott, which ones are ugly? 20:42:15 Vorpal: symbols mostly. 20:42:27 elliott, all symbols? or are some okay? 20:42:32 elliott, ä. 20:42:32 maybe. 20:42:35 Phantom_Hoover: no. 20:42:38 too swedish 20:42:45 â. 20:42:49 elliott, add the greek letters 20:42:55 maybe :P 20:42:59 elliott, what are you planning to use this for? 20:43:01 A good idea from Vorpal. 20:43:04 How unusual. 20:43:36 Vorpal: A semi-clone of fizzie's pastebin thing, except instead of doing the useless task of URL shortening as well as pastebinning, mine does private pastebinning and image hosting. 20:43:47 Vorpal: Except I want to make the URLs hashes, rather than evil imperative sequential IDs. 20:43:55 But I want short-ish URLs. :P 20:43:58 hah 20:44:13 elliott, what about adding _ and - then? 20:44:17 Even a 32-char prefix (of a 64-char SHA-1 hash) in base 62 (0-9a-zA-Z) gives things like "8azxrfY2khCG23lFERXRWh3i4Zu". 20:44:21 Vorpal: Those are ugly. Especially when repeated. 20:44:30 elliott, well at least they won't be url encoded :P 20:44:38 0..15 gives: ny6WsmDgQfcMWrngBmLZO6 20:44:39 elliott, the greek letters would be 20:44:42 Oh, and by -char I mean byte. 20:44:54 How good is a 64-bit prefix of SHA-1? :P 20:45:05 As good as a 64-bit hash. 20:45:14 Vorpal: Um, greek letters in URLs work fine, just not Greek domains. And even those might. 20:45:20 fizzie: Good enough? :p 20:45:30 elliott, they will end up encoded as %nn surely? 20:45:37 Vorpal: I doubt it. 20:45:48 Sheesh, even a 12-bit hash gives "ny6WsmDgQfcMWrngBmLZO6". 20:45:50 Erm. 20:45:54 *96-bit 20:46:07 elliott, a counter does have some advantages :P 20:46:14 I liked the "shortest unconflicting prefix, lookup oldest-first" thing, but it does have the "URLs get longer as time passes" property. 20:46:34 fizzie: And is also EVIL and STATEFUL. 20:46:52 fizzie: Is that what your thing does? 20:47:01 elliott, just paste data uris instead. Self contained! (though it completely missed all the other points 20:47:01 elliott, include "$" 20:47:06 No, I think my thing just generates a random fixed-length ID when you dont' specify one. 20:47:07 it doesn't get url encoded 20:47:08 variable: ew :) 20:47:13 variable: it'll look like /etc/shadow 20:47:26 elliott, ls: /etc/shadow: No such file or directory 20:47:48 why don't you just want to use a sequential numeric id? 20:48:11 20:46 variable: elliott, ls: /etc/shadow: No such file or directory 20:48:17 would you have preferred I said /etc/master.passwd? 20:48:24 :-} 20:48:25 and confused everyone? 20:48:34 elliott, that's what freebsd calls it too btw 20:48:37 sequential numeric IDs are evil and stateful, duh. 20:48:40 Vorpal: that's why i said it. 20:48:43 variable is a BSD zealot :p 20:48:46 aha 20:48:53 elliott, I thought it was what os x uses 20:48:56 or something 20:49:06 "Seems" to. 20:49:14 But there's probably some LDAP database somewhere that it _really_ uses. ;-) 20:49:23 # Note that this file is consulted directly only when the system is running 20:49:23 # in single-user mode. At other times this information is provided by 20:49:23 # Open Directory. 20:49:25 HA 20:49:27 I was right! 20:49:30 elliott, ldap for local, so screwed 20:49:31 elliott, and more than likely it would be possible to change one and not the other 20:49:37 and then get screwed :-} 20:49:42 Apple's Open Directory architecture includes source code for both direc- 20:49:42 tory client access and directory servers. Open Directory forms the foun- 20:49:42 dation of how Mac OS X accesses all authoritative configuration informa- 20:49:44 tion (users, groups, mounts, managed desktop data, etc.). Mac OS X 20:49:45 obtains this information via abstraction APIs, enabling use of virtually 20:49:46 * Phantom_Hoover undermines Mt. Vorpal's security system with some redstone torches and some TNT. 20:49:47 any directory system. Configuration of Open Directory is done through 20:49:50 the Directory Utility applications in /Applications/Utilities. This 20:49:52 application can configure plugin settings, including turning on/off vari- 20:49:54 ous directory services. 20:49:55 Vorpal: Seems it's some custom thing. 20:49:58 Phantom_Hoover: Woo, now we'll never get a TNT kit. 20:50:14 elliott, you misparsed, clearly. 20:50:24 It's LDAP-compatible, though. 20:50:28 Phantom_Hoover: I did? 20:50:29 At least to some extent. 20:50:35 I used the torches for the undermining; I simply *have* some TNT. 20:50:39 Ah. 20:50:42 I have no intention of *using* it. 20:50:46 Obviously. 20:50:58 fizzie: Apple — compatible — to some extent — never a good sign. 20:53:19 fizzie: So, a 40 bit hash -- it'll totally last forever right? 20:53:43 A 48-bit hash is about as high as I'l go. 20:53:45 You're reasonably likely to have collisions when you have around 2^20 entries. 20:53:53 Or 2^24 for that. 20:54:42 And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?) 20:54:55 :D 20:55:18 fizzie: I'm more asking whether a 40-bit hash might cause me problems if, say, SHA-1 is broken. OK, OK, that'll only help for intentional collisions. 20:55:20 BUT STILL. 20:55:34 Are there any quote bots here? 20:55:43 variable: hackego; `quote is the main command, it also greps if you give it an argument 20:55:48 `quote 20:55:48 unless it's a number in which case you have to parenthesis it 20:55:50 If you worry about intentional collisions, 40 bits is quite bruteforceable even without breaking SHA-1. 20:55:51 *parenthesise 20:55:52 (it's egrep) 20:55:57 `quote fizzie 20:56:01 "`pastequotes [optional grep]" and "`pastenquotes" are also quite nice 20:56:10 elliott, no I want to remember one 20:56:11 variable: are you trying to add it? :) 20:56:13 yes 20:56:18 variable: `addquote foo 20:56:22 pikhq: 40 bit prefixes of SHA-1 hashes to identify every entry in a combined pastebin/image database 20:56:24 pikhq: FEASIBLE??? 20:56:33 pikhq: or should i go for a prefix of an SHA-2 function. or just increase the size 20:56:42 elliott, will it only add the last one - or could I say to remember one from before 20:56:50 variable: um you have to type it in manually 20:56:51 thus the foo 20:57:03 `addquote And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?) 20:57:06 elliott, ah. I was thinking of something like !grab user :-} 20:57:07 demonstration :> 20:58:02 Where is hackego, anyway? 20:58:21 GOOD QUESTION 20:58:22 Gregor: 20:58:31 !help 20:58:37 !heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllppppppppppp 20:58:40 I killed 'im. 20:58:45 why ? 20:58:47 !HELP YOU DAMN BOT 20:58:49 I stabbed 'im with a filet knife. 20:59:02 -!- EgoBot has joined. 20:59:05 -!- HackEgo has joined. 20:59:16 `addquote And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?) 20:59:17 wb EgoBot and HackEgo 20:59:26 Gregor, they both yours? 20:59:32 no 20:59:34 Yuh 20:59:35 he just controls them 20:59:38 with his mind 20:59:39 261) And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?) 20:59:39 Mine to stab and/or filet. 20:59:45 `quote 20:59:48 183) you should be eating corpses more 20:59:53 `quote 20:59:54 `quote 20:59:55 `quote 20:59:55 `quote 20:59:56 32) after all, what are DVD players for? 20:59:58 226) [...] I'm just widening the shaft to be 4x2 or so. 21:00:00 100) Discrimination fields ACTIVATE. 21:00:02 165) you don't have an urethra, you're a girl. 21:00:10 elliott, ah. I was thinking of something like !grab user :-} 21:00:16 The quotes are of ... mixed quality. 21:00:22 I *did* clean them up before! but somehow it hasn't helped 21:00:25 Phantom_Hoover, hrm? 21:00:37 !showinterp pi 21:00:49 !show pi 21:00:51 sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=5; fi; echo "scale=$p; a(1)*4;" | BC_LINE_LENGTH=490 bc -l | tr -d '\\' 21:01:53 !addinterp grab sh read u; echo '`quote' $u 21:01:54 Interpreter grab installed. 21:02:00 !grab elliott 21:02:01 `quote elliott 21:02:02 209) elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 212) elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 221) elliott: My university has 21:02:16 I like the fact that none of the quotes are his. 21:02:16 ... 21:02:17 That is, um, not quite what grab was meant to do, methinks. 21:02:31 `quote <(elliott|ehird)[^>]+> 21:02:32 You have no VISION 21:02:33 No output. 21:02:39 `quote 21:02:40 No output. 21:02:44 sucks to be me 21:02:53 Phantom_Hoover, `grab user is supposed to `addquote the last thing user said 21:03:16 !delinterp grab 21:03:17 Interpreter grab deleted. 21:03:20 ARE YOU HAPPY NOW 21:03:20 Can't be done by da botses. 21:03:22 !pi 21:03:22 3.14156 21:03:35 Gregor, why not? 21:03:46 EgoBot, you got it WRONG - your missing digits 21:03:47 !pi 10 21:03:48 3.1415926532 21:04:01 variable: They strictly react to their relevant activation character, they don't record anything else. 21:04:07 * Phantom_Hoover can't help but think something is up here. 21:04:30 Phantom_Hoover: Define something. 21:04:39 !pi 21:04:40 3.14156 21:04:43 !pi 10 21:04:44 3.1415926532 21:04:55 Note the 5th digit of each. 21:05:53 I assume it's because a(1) isn't terribly precise. 21:06:41 `quote poultry 21:06:42 221) elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! 21:09:43 Player count: 6349 21:09:43 Player count: 6350 21:09:43 Player count: 6351 21:09:44 Phantom_Hoover: I think a(1) is precise up to the given "scale", it's just that it takes a(1)*4 there. See, 3.14156/4 = 0.78539; that's... well, actually that's only a truncated five-significant-digits of a(1), not a rounded one. There's that too. 21:09:47 ineiros, what the^ 21:09:55 Ilari, it kept counting up insanely fast 21:09:57 err 21:09:57 ineiros, ^ 21:10:01 damn tab complete 21:10:27 ineiros, I logged off when minecraft started swap trashing from it 21:10:35 That's a lot of players. 21:10:51 fizzie, except mcmap didn't report a lot of players showing up 21:11:27 and now server seems down 21:12:04 oklopol, you were on just before that happened. Is it down? 21:12:08 did you see the same thing? 21:12:28 I hate num lnock 21:12:40 > pi 21:12:41 3.141592653589793 21:12:45 > pi^2 21:12:46 9.869604401089358 21:13:11 `quote No output. 21:13:18 `quote [<]e 21:13:19 No output. 21:13:32 ...there really _are_ no quotes by him? 21:13:42 `quote [<]oe 21:13:43 No output. 21:13:52 `quote oerjan 21:13:53 7) what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 19) ehird has gone insane, clearly. \ 21) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really 21:14:08 i don't think that grep is entirely accurate... 21:14:41 oerjan: howso 21:14:50 `quote < 21:14:52 No output. 21:14:54 i think < may be a special char 21:14:56 `quote \< 21:14:57 No output. 21:15:01 or maybe it's still broken 21:15:04 i think it was broken at one point 21:15:04 elliott: [<]oe should have matched , no? 21:15:10 hm indeed 21:15:13 `paste bin/quote 21:15:14 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6107 21:15:15 oerjan: enjoy fixing 21:16:04 oh wait 21:16:09 `run [ "<" ]; echo $? 21:16:11 0 21:16:13 hm 21:16:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:16:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 21:16:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:18:50 could file(1) be enough to detect programming languages, I wonder? 21:19:54 elliott, for some certainly: #!/bin/sh is a definitely clue for the first line 21:20:06 Vorpal: I mean with the default db -- I recall file tells me "C source" sometimes 21:20:13 yes it does 21:20:15 but the file here I have is OS X file which is ~limited, so i'll ssh into rutian to check 21:20:24 elliott, you need to have a good magic database 21:20:25 elliott, DID YOU KNOW: 21:20:29 variable: duh :) 21:20:30 but yes - it could be good enough 21:20:38 The order in which Oolite loads OXPs is non-deterministic. 21:20:41 elliott, but if you want something even better - look at ohloh 21:20:42 well ubuntu file can't detect ruby code at least 21:20:44 Phantom_Hoover: :D 21:20:50 elliott, but then it identifies charset and such, and that isn't using the magic db iirc 21:20:50 There's no effort to sort it *at all*. 21:21:03 variable: ohloh tends to get things wildly wrong in my experience :-D 21:21:12 variable: and i doubt they have some open source software to do the magic 21:21:18 elliott, they do 21:21:22 :-} 21:21:33 elliott, mostly ohloh mixes up C and C++, though it was worse before 21:21:47 variable: hmm 21:21:48 elliott, and yes their software for doing that is/was FOSS 21:21:57 their site is hell to navigate so links would be nice :D 21:21:58 it does basic line counting stuff too 21:22:08 elliott, google for "ohcount" iirc 21:22:22 all I need is language detection for single streams of text, for my pastebin 21:22:24 http://sourceforge.net/p/ohloh/oh-count/ci/452d902d8f69afc10eecb2e382b0f39cc2342e92/tree/ 21:22:28 I imagine using the file extension would be more practical, though :) 21:22:53 huh, that does not look like normal sourceforge. 21:22:57 ohloh? 21:23:07 Phantom_Hoover: this semi-useless site. 21:29:01 -!- myndzi has joined. 21:29:36 * Phantom_Hoover decides to poke into Oolite's code just to show that fixing the loading order would be trivial. 21:29:40 I will probably fail. 21:29:56 > fix((0:).tail.(([[0,1],[1,0]]!!)=<<)) 21:29:58 [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,... 21:30:14 elliott, ohloh used to be owned by sourceforge 21:30:22 variable: oh. that explains the suckage. 21:30:27 hmmhm, so i guess fizzie stopped working on the win version 21:30:34 oklopol: what 21:30:36 fizzie got it working 21:30:38 you just didn't redownload 21:30:39 i even pinged you about it 21:30:56 i think i downloaded that version and it didn't wokr 21:30:57 *work 21:31:04 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:31:06 at least i downloaded one after fizzie said it works 21:31:14 unfortunately it crashed when someone talked 21:31:26 oklopol: didn't he redo it 21:31:26 coords worked tho 21:31:28 fizzie: ? 21:31:31 so i can prolly use it now 21:31:41 i'll just hope none of you play today 21:32:21 No, I didn't "redo" it, since I'm not sure why it crashes. 21:32:31 I'll try to get it working, though. 21:32:43 But not today; I'll be un-internetted fri/sat/sun, and have to do some packing before. 21:33:06 It's comforting to know that when it crashes in Wine, it in fact crashes also in real life, because then I can perhaps test it locally too. 21:35:06 fizzie: how can you ever be uninternetted WHY 21:35:17 wait are you moving, can i come visit, oklopol will come too 21:35:29 No, no, it's just the Stockholm trip I mentioned. 21:38:00 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:38:20 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 21:38:49 -!- elliott has joined. 21:38:57 fizzie: so err i don't quite understand zpaste, does it store pastes in files 21:39:23 Yes. 21:39:40 Named after, well, the name. 21:41:21 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:43:56 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:44:07 -!- elliott has joined. 21:49:46 are we talking about the stockholm syndrome? 21:54:24 elliott, you have failed in your duties as Selector Of Components. 21:58:34 Phantom_Hoover: What's your budget again? £3? 21:58:45 $expensive. 21:58:59 £expensive, too 21:59:18 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:59:33 Phantom_Hoover: Wasn't it £800? 21:59:35 Close to £3. 21:59:38 Or was it £700. 21:59:45 £800 is good. 22:00:16 Phantom_Hoover: And ... general requirements? :P 22:00:29 elliott, hmm. 22:00:40 Doesn't crash when I play Oolite with the Griff ships. 22:01:02 (:P) 22:01:18 Phantom_Hoover: You could get that for £300. :p 22:01:37 elliott, yes, that was facetious. 22:01:45 So was mine. 22:05:34 pikhq: I NEED OPINIONS 22:05:52 pikhq: When taking a short (40 or 48-bit) prefix of a hash function, is it best to take a prefix of SHA-1 or one of the SHA-2 functions? If the latter, which? 22:06:20 I, and, uh. 22:06:25 how do you usually walk from the cube, or do you always /spawn? 22:06:53 oklopol: /spawn, yup :D 22:06:57 oklopol: walk from to where 22:07:23 well, anywhere, it's pretty disconnected from the others 22:07:33 which are mostly near spawn 22:07:34 oklopol, actually, not really. 22:07:44 Deewiant's is further, for instance. 22:07:48 well, right 22:08:40 hmm i wonder where mount hoover is relative to cube 22:08:43 i think it's quite close in one axis 22:08:49 and a bit of a walk in the other 22:10:32 oklopol: i'd just walk back to spawn really 22:10:36 oklopol: well 22:10:37 oklopol: actually 22:10:48 oklopol: i'd walk to ineiros and use the minecart system ... except getting into ineiros' pit from below is hard 22:11:01 yeah, that's why i'm asking 22:11:03 but the minecart system is connected to pretty much anywhere, so if you get on there you're golden, assuming lag is low enough 22:11:18 oklopol: you could make a hole outside ineiros' pit that leads near the minecart station there :D 22:11:19 The track to my place is probably nearest, it's how I go to the cube. 22:11:20 because i couldn't find a way there, so anyway i decided i'll just walk at random until i find something, it's worked for me sofar 22:11:31 after all Phantom_Hoover did the connecting, not ineiros 22:11:33 Deewiant: huh? 22:11:39 Deewiant: you go to your house, and then walk to the cube? 22:11:45 that must take a long time surely 22:11:54 No, I start from spawn, minecart to around x = -200, then walk the rest. 22:12:47 Deewiant: er how, the express doesn't have any stops? 22:12:50 do you just sit there monitoring F3 22:12:55 Monitor F3. 22:12:59 Deewiant: :D 22:13:01 Deewiant: how do you get out 22:13:06 Whack the cart. 22:13:09 i mean 22:13:10 out of the station 22:13:28 I've dug two sets of stairs out (the second because I couldn't find the first; at the top I noticed it was about two blocks to the side) 22:13:29 Deewiant: how I do it is: go to ineiros, jump out the northern end, walk over the tiny hill there, then just go west to the cube (about 400 zs away) 22:13:38 Phantom_Hoover: what's your way? 22:13:40 maybe it's quicker 22:13:45 My way is probably faster than yours then 22:13:47 elliott, do you have mcmap? 22:13:50 Given that it's also around 400 zs 22:13:52 Phantom_Hoover: uh sort of. 22:13:54 But the x is all minecart 22:13:55 i don't really use it much :D 22:14:12 Deewiant: yeah but mine doesn't involve holding down F3 and gettin' all twichy 22:14:14 *twitchy 22:14:15 it's relaxin' 22:14:19 The US military is *cutting its budget*. 22:14:26 pikhq: also, hell is chilly 22:14:30 Turn it on, with map mode, then walk to fizzie's, then to that weird dirt thing in the sky, then to the Hall of Midas, then to the cube. 22:14:43 elliott: It's not twitchy, just click once at around 200. :-P 22:15:06 Deewiant: TWITCHY MAN 22:15:15 Phantom_Hoover: "weird dirt thing in the sky"? 22:15:24 elliott, you can see it on the map. 22:15:34 It's a bunch of squares supported by a pillar. 22:16:12 Phantom_Hoover: you mean the one with the tree? 22:16:16 elliott: "Indeed, the pretty printer is too stupid to rename identifiers in case of clash. The result is incomprehensible output as you witnessed. A possible workaround is to try and name identifiers everywhere in the input. 22:16:20 FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUu 22:16:22 elliott, erm, no. 22:16:28 j-invariant: where's that from :D 22:16:37 http://www.reddit.com/r/dependent_types/comments/efb3y/micro_agda_a_simplistic_language_with_native/c1bolme?context=3 22:16:39 pikhq: PREFIX SHA-1 OR SHA-2 22:16:44 j-invariant: :DDDDDDD 22:16:47 elliott: SHA-2 22:16:51 pikhq: why 22:16:53 BECAUSE HIGHER NUMBERS ARE BETTER DOOD 22:16:55 :P 22:16:55 pikhq: ok fine 22:16:57 pikhq: which SHA-2 22:17:01 YES 22:17:02 ais523: do you know anything about this 22:17:04 so mad 22:17:06 I have to fix this myself 22:18:20 pikhq, why is the US military cutting its budget? 22:18:23 $178 billion cut in war spending. 22:18:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:18:54 Phantom_Hoover: Partly to make the US budget more balanced, partly because it's a bunch of stuff that is completely unneeded. 22:19:03 :/ 22:19:07 they don't even use a monad 22:19:08 pikhq, like the UK's aircraftless aircraft carriers? 22:19:16 Which we totally need, apparently. 22:19:33 And Republicans are upset about it. 22:19:38 "We're in two wars!" 22:19:54 j-invariant: i love how that reddit discussion is about the difficult task of proving that 0 is not 1 22:19:58 ... And nearly insolvent, and the military budget is half the budget. 22:20:33 There is indeed a weird dirt thing; I've wondered about it. What's it supposed to be? 22:20:47 elliott: thies thing has horrible code duplication 22:20:58 but even with the usual set theoretic construction definition of complex numbers, isn't 0 != 1 trivial? 22:21:03 elliott: yeah you can't prove that in this language :P 22:21:05 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:21:09 j-invariant: useful! 22:21:16 i know 1 != 2 is almost direct at least 22:21:20 j-invariant: hey it represents dependent values as their folds 22:21:23 /induction combinators 22:21:26 and 1 + 1 = 2 22:21:27 fizzie, I have no idea at all. 22:21:34 oklopol: lol @ specifying it on complexes 22:21:43 well 22:21:45 I just know that from it you can see the Hall of Midas on the map. 22:22:01 if you use something like successor functions, then 0 != 1 is basically by def 22:22:10 pikhq: sha-224, 256, 384 or 512 22:22:12 for prefixing 22:22:18 and if you're doing reals, might as well do complexes 22:22:19 oklopol: not in uAgda :D 22:22:33 oh. 22:22:40 interesting 22:22:56 or probably it's trivial but hell of a chore for some technical reason? 22:23:02 oklopol: it's not possible 22:23:10 elliott: Laik, higher numbers better 22:23:13 elliott: 1024 22:23:28 pikhq: laik, clearly the 512 thing has all its hash info spread out whereas 256 is more compact 22:23:29 oklopol: it could be added thogh 22:23:34 so taking a prefix of 256 is more useful 22:23:37 and information filled 22:23:38 pikhq: duhh 22:23:47 :trollface: 22:23:52 ais523 ais523 ais523 22:24:02 so it's by definition, but you can't access the definition 22:24:14 00:51:58 I have decided to use spivak on IRC, all over. 22:24:16 Vorpal: that didn't work out 22:24:29 j-invariant: can you prove true /= false in uagda? 22:25:28 I think so 22:25:49 j-invariant: hmm 22:26:09 elliott: Well, SHA-224 == SHA-256 except with different initial state and it's "pre-truncated" by omitting one 32-bit word at the end, so for truncation purposes it's pretty likely SHA-224 and SHA-256 are essentially equivalent; the same for SHA-384 vs. SHA-512. 22:26:38 The truncated versions aren't even any faster to compute. 22:26:41 fizzie: Well, right. I'm just wondering whether it's better to take a small prefix of SHA-1, SHA-256, or HSA 22:26:42 *SHA-512. 22:26:57 j-invariant: can you prove (\sf zf -> zf) /= (\n sf zf -> sf (n sf zf)) in Coq given uhh I forget the name of the axiom 22:27:06 forall f g,(f=g)<->(forall x, f x = g x) 22:27:09 that one 22:27:12 note <-> not -> 22:27:15 er <- rather 22:27:19 although wait 22:27:21 the axiom only needs -> 22:27:23 hmm 22:27:26 but can you derive 22:27:33 (exists x, f x /= gx) -> (f/=g) from that 22:27:37 elliott, y'know what the Cube needs? 22:27:42 A spleef arena. 22:28:11 Phantom_Hoover: If and only if it's lined with obsidian. 22:28:22 I do not want any "accidental" breakages that leave LavaLite flooded everywhere. 22:28:35 this is so annoying, I can't see how to make this code print out names properly 22:29:24 Vorpal: that didn't work out <-- indeed 22:29:45 i might just start calling everyone and everything "it" 22:29:45 what's the biggest cave in the world? 22:29:53 oklopol: define "cave" 22:30:02 there are tons of massive cavern systems that keep connecting to things you didn't know about :D 22:30:08 sorry, manmade hole in earth 22:30:28 i mean in terms of blocks removed 22:30:31 well 22:30:36 i guess the whole fucking system is connected 22:30:53 Most of that is "natural" cavernetics, though. 22:31:01 but anyway, at subtree, the actual number of blocks removed did not look like that much 22:31:07 I would think Vorpal's mines have the largest number of blocks removed. 22:31:24 oklopol: well ineiros' pit basically... vorpal's mines don't count as holes since 22:31:25 uh 22:31:31 i don't know what they count as; a diagnosis? 22:31:38 erm, ineiros' pit is not very big 22:31:43 fizzie, what about the old mines? 22:31:44 oklopol: It's very deep, though. 22:31:46 oklopol: um it goes down to near bedrock 22:31:53 oklopol: very near in fact 22:32:02 oklopol: and it's on a high mountain 22:32:04 so it's like 100 deep 22:32:09 i've built like 10 caves like that, never from a mountain tho 22:32:15 but point is, that is not that many blocks 22:32:18 oklopol: well ineiros' pit basically... vorpal's mines don't count as holes since <-- why not 22:32:25 Vorpal: because they're not hollow 22:32:35 oh? 22:32:38 possibly never as big, because i just do it when i wanna start underground mining 22:32:51 i mean, in area, which of course means much less blocks 22:33:20 oklopol: well. the stairs aren't really holes 22:33:23 they're ... diagonal holes :D 22:34:07 oklopol: http://zem.fi/~fis/miney.png -- that thing top-right is I think parts of Vorpal's mines. (But I'm no expert on them.) 22:34:23 yes. diagnosis definitely 22:34:25 The mine tunnels aren't that many blocks either, I guess. 22:34:41 But I don't think we have very large man-made holes there. 22:34:42 more than ineiros' pit surely 22:35:01 i mean, mines > pit 22:35:19 they were definitely tons longer than 128 22:35:38 people should just fix their code for me :( 22:35:40 and maybe like sixth of the area? can't really assess 22:36:08 fizzie, *checks 22:36:26 oklopol: http://zem.fi/~fis/miney.png -- that thing top-right is I think parts of Vorpal's mines. (But I'm no expert on them.) <-- yep 22:36:33 oklopol: It's composed of rather thin tunnels, though. 22:37:16 so if i make mines like that, people can just look at them with an editor? 22:37:19 fizzie, nice view of my tree farm too there. 22:37:33 It's hard to get a good grasp of block-volumes from the slices generated by mcmap. 22:37:34 oklopol, fizzie is using mcmap 22:37:46 fizzie, I have no clue about the block volumes either 22:37:56 i thought you needed to have been there, but clearly fizzie hasn't gone to your mines 22:38:20 fizzie: so do i prefix SHA-1, SHA-256 or SHA-512 INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW 22:38:23 oklopol: I have, in fact, but I didn't this time. The region shown there is the region the server sends chunks for when you stand there in the middle. 22:38:24 oklopol, he is on ground somewhere near 22:38:27 oklopol: you just need to go close enough 22:38:35 Vorpal: On top of your mountain, in fact. 22:39:26 fizzie, ah 22:39:37 Random thought: I could have mcmap generate a "minecraft-compatible" world-dump, though; then you could "play" in there, and also run all those pretty-picture offline mapmakers if you wanted. (Though of course only the regions you had walked around in mcmap.) 22:40:15 I've forgotten whether you got the terrain-generation seed out of the handshake packets; it might've been there. (And it might have not.) 22:40:52 fizzie, even if you do, my mines are in pre-halloween but iirc a tiny section crosses into post-halloween 22:41:31 Yes, you'd get discontinuatitities there, but less. And of course I could make mcmap able to "overwrite" an existing world-dump if you already went and moved around in there. 22:41:49 Yes, the map seed is in fact there. 22:41:50 fizzie, hah 22:42:03 discontinuatitties 22:42:42 Incidentally, I did put a launcher-option-setting dialog in the win32 port, with pure win32 api. Mwah-ahaha. (But I didn't fix the crashing bugs. Priorities, priorities...) 22:43:28 fizzie: Ooh, ooh, make sure to misspell words, make the padding all weird, have checkboxes for things that should be radio buttons, and ideally have only one button, "Do it", and have the actual action controlled by other elements of the interface. 22:43:37 fizzie: Writing "Username:" as "UserName :" gets extra bonus points. 22:43:45 -!- Behold has joined. 22:43:48 It is very weird when it comes to control-positioning. 22:44:04 fizzie: As well as using a title like "::[ McMAP v.3.2 ] by fizzie:: [Connect]" 22:45:23 elliott: would it be cheeky to fix the bug in such a horrible way that he feels the need to rewrite the whole thing better rather than applying it? 22:45:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:45:48 j-invariant: you social engineer, you 22:46:31 (_₁ : A⇧¹ → (_quux : A⇧¹) → P₁) → 22:46:31 (_₁quux : A⇧¹ → (_quux : A⇧¹) → P₁quux) → 22:46:32 that's better 22:46:57 j-invariant: please tell me you can get quuxquuxquux 22:47:01 or something 22:47:05 yeah if there's three nested types 22:47:42 j-invariant: why not just make it use ' 22:47:45 or even UNICODE PRIME 22:47:56 ah that would work :P 22:50:39 pikhq: Coreutils in HASKELL -- best idea or worst idea or worst idea or best worst idea 22:50:52 elliott: Both. Simultaneously. 22:51:02 pikhq: HERE'S MY CAT IMPLEMENTATION 22:51:09 main = putStr =<< getContents 22:51:22 oh wait should probably disable buffering before doing that 22:51:23 But arguments! 22:51:59 pikhq: oh yeah indeed 22:52:05 pikhq: well i have something to tell you brother 22:52:07 pikhq: FUCK ARGUMENTS 22:52:12 XD 22:52:13 (cat TOO PUSSY FOR THAT? WELL THEN FUCK OFF 22:52:30 Well, that makes cat useless... 22:52:50 pikhq: Why? 22:53:17 ( It's called *cat*. 22:54:22 pikhq: 22:54:23 Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air:~ ehird$ 22:54:23 It con*cat*enates files. 22:54:27 I don't know what shell that works on. 22:54:33 Phantom_Hoover: No. It's like a cat: it repeats everything you say. 22:54:33 Duh. 22:54:44 Or was that a parrot? Same thing, anyway. 22:54:49 elliott, I want your cat. 22:55:02 elliott: Huh, thought most shells did that. 22:55:02 Phantom_Hoover: IT IS GREAT it says "polly wants a cracker" a lot and sometimes i let it out of its cage. 22:55:08 elliott: Well, it does work in zsh. 22:55:10 pikhq: using bash 3 here :D 22:55:18 pikhq: Oh, zsh is totally crazy with pipelines. 22:55:22 pikhq: Try this: "cat pikhq: In fact, " Yes, zsh has cat built into its pipelines. 22:55:35 Because it's fucking crazy. 22:55:44 Sure enough, it does. 22:55:44 pikhq: Did I mention that multiple outputs does "tee"? 22:55:47 I ♥ zsh. 22:55:53 And yes, I'm well aware of that. 22:56:06 Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air% x >y 22:56:07 Elliott-Hirds-MacBook-Air% fun main = print "Hello, world!\n" 22:56:08 fun main = print "Hello, world!\n" 22:56:10 fun main = print "Hello, world!\n" 22:56:12 fun main = print "Hello, world!\n" 22:56:20 Delish. 22:56:36 just another example of the shift from libraries tolanguages 22:57:06 Mathnerd314: what. 22:57:13 zsh has always been crazy, there's no "shift" 22:57:19 and shells hardly have "libraries" 22:57:22 they've always built shit in. 22:57:49 fizzie: DO I PREFIX SHA-1, SHA-256, OR SHA-512, I AM LITERALLY IMPLODING RIGHT NOW? 23:00:14 * Phantom_Hoover uses zsh due to the crazy. 23:00:40 elliott: the question is whether more people use zsh 23:01:17 right now maybe I can figure out this silly thing 23:01:28 Mathnerd314: than what 23:02:40 elliott: than weak shells with less-powerful input languages 23:03:03 Mathnerd314: zsh is vastly less popular than bash. also, a less bloated shell is not "weaker". 23:03:09 shells are, after all, an interface to unix. 23:03:22 " ">x >y" is also fairly pointless as "| tee x >y" does the job just as well. 23:04:44 elliott: Oh, right, that. Well, I mean, theoretically speaking SHA-512 will have a larger safety margin (more rounds and so on) when it comes to getting breaked so that you can solve it faster than brute-force, but if your truncation is small enough to be practically bruteforceable then it really doesn't matter. 23:05:38 fizzie: sha256 is a lot faster, at least (when applied to large images; though I am using the hideously efficient pure library. I'll try a binding.) 23:06:08 I might just go with a truncated SHA-256, it's cheaper to compute than SHA-512 and all. And I'm sure hashing speed will of course be your bottleneck. 23:06:25 fizzie: It will, yes, my network is instant. 23:07:31 Phantom_Hoover: I have a feeling that OS X users tend to use zsh. I don't know why. 23:07:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 23:07:36 Phantom_Hoover: I blame your heritage. 23:07:40 elliott, what will you do in case of a collision? 23:07:42 elliott: That combines with every *other* redirection thing, though. 23:07:52 elliott, I started using zsh *after* OS X. 23:07:53 elliott, on the truncated hash I mean 23:07:58 Vorpal: *** OH GOD HASH COLLISION: WHY GOD WHY 23:08:07 Vorpal: The likely of a hash collision with 40 or 48 bits is pretty unlikely :p 23:08:08 *:P 23:08:09 elliott: >(x) >(y) 23:08:10 *likelihood 23:08:14 If I wasn't _specifically_ trying to break shit. 23:08:19 elliott, so it will properly refuse upload of the collided file then? 23:08:20 pikhq: Clearly | should be sugar for >(...). 23:08:24 main = putStr =<< getContents <-- you mean main = interact id >:) 23:08:26 Vorpal: Yes. 23:08:29 oerjan: i was considering that :) 23:08:39 elliott, how will it handle exact dupe 23:08:46 silent? 23:08:48 Vorpal: What do you mean. Uploading the same file twice? 23:08:56 elliott, yes 23:08:58 It'll just barf out and say there's a hash collision, probably. :p 23:09:09 ah 23:09:09 I might make it say "This has already been added! ...or else there's a hash collision." 23:09:13 It is, after all, single-user. 23:09:27 Probably. 23:11:38 fizzie, why leave the game? :/ 23:11:54 elliott: after before before http://pastebin.com/swa5r518 23:11:55 Vorpal: Early morning tomorrow, have a boat to catch. 23:12:17 j-invariant: what :D 23:12:23 fizzie: a boat? you so zany 23:12:27 fizzie, hope it doesn't break. But in case it does bring 4 wood 23:12:27 fizzie: don't finns have zeppelins 23:12:31 with their suave tech 23:12:34 Vorpal: what 23:12:35 ... 23:12:35 oh. 23:12:38 err 5 23:12:38 fizzie: shoot Vorpal 23:12:39 even 23:12:49 elliott, :P 23:12:59 anyone know a country with lax border checks? 23:13:02 ineiros, around? 23:13:02 we can have an esoteric meetup there 23:13:04 and i can bring a gun 23:13:06 and shoot Vorpal 23:14:21 elliott, what's your opinion of TinyCore? 23:14:23 elliott: you cannot have zeppelins in worlds where the nazis have lost the war, duh 23:14:36 elliott: You only need about a million pasted items before the probability of having at least one collision in there starts to get close to 50%, for a 40-bit hash. 23:14:45 Sgeo: It's not called TinyCore, for one. 23:14:53 oerjan: untrue (c.f. His Dark Materials) 23:14:59 simple time traveler axiom 23:15:04 fizzie: 48-bit, then? 23:15:12 Well, 16 million. 23:15:13 elliott: i haven't read that SO IT DOESN'T EXIST 23:15:17 how rare is clay? i don't remember seeing any on your map before this, and all i've done is walked around at random for hours 23:15:18 I guess for private use it's not too bad. 23:15:30 oklopol: Quite a lot of nearby clay has been snarfed up. 23:15:47 * Phantom_Hoover is very upset that zeppelins never took off (har har). 23:15:52 (But it is a bit on the rare side too.) 23:16:11 i don't never be in the near. 23:16:39 Clay pretty much only happens near sandy beaches. 23:16:51 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:16:54 Did I even eat breakfast today? 23:16:57 I don't think so 23:16:59 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:17:16 -!- elliott has joined. 23:17:20 Clay pretty much only happens near sandy beaches. <-- also in deserts 23:17:26 oerjan: you'd hate his dark materials, it's preachy-atheist :) 23:17:39 Phantom_Hoover: but i thought they were the bomb! 23:18:11 stick + coal --> burning torch ... makes sense 23:18:27 j-invariant, it's obvious! 23:18:54 And four ingots of iron and a pile of redstone dust -> compass! Also obvious! 23:19:48 A diamond inside some planks -> jukebox! Equally clear! 23:20:06 what the hell? These torches don't light 23:20:09 Clearly you mash a quarter of a bit of coal into a quarter of a stick. 23:20:13 j-invariant, is it day? 23:20:20 no it's night 23:20:36 oh youhave to right click 23:20:41 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:20:54 You have to place a torch before it starts giving out any light. Obvious! 23:21:04 to light stick, right click 23:21:12 -!- elliott has joined. 23:21:25 this game is just so cosy 23:21:54 (Though did the better-light mod add a carried-torch light source too? Maybe I am just imagining things. There is at least one handheld-torch-light mod.) 23:22:14 oerjan: But where should I write "click" to? 23:22:28 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:22:44 j-invariant: cosy :D 23:22:47 j-invariant: met a creeper yet? 23:22:55 fizzie: no, better light doesn't add that 23:23:05 i don't thin 23:23:23 -!- BMG has joined. 23:23:26 yes I drilled into the side of a mountain and there was a lava stream below so I went that way and then this guy jumps out of nowhere and blows up right next to me LOL 23:23:35 j-invariant: :D 23:23:39 j-invariant: did you see his face 23:23:42 j-invariant: his horrifying 23:23:44 j-invariant: horrifying face 23:24:00 -!- BMG has quit (Changing host). 23:24:00 -!- BMG has joined. 23:24:06 -!- BMG has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 23:25:52 elliott, you just broke oklopol trying to get coord when you spoke 23:26:00 i apologise sincerely 23:26:02 he *just* rejoined with mcmap 23:26:43 -!- Behold has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:27:12 -!- j-invariant has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:29:33 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:29:48 -!- elliott has joined. 23:32:19 nice, gdmflexiserver has an easter egg 23:32:37 oklopol, down? 23:32:49 elliott: ^ 23:33:02 yes 23:33:04 cheater99: o...kay? 23:33:19 cheater99: btw i'm just gonna buy a superdrive 23:33:32 i've already given apple >£1k, what's £60 more, sigh 23:33:39 elliott: i thought in case you ever need to measure \pi in a rudimentary setup that only has sh and gdmflexiserver. 23:33:47 cheater99: wonderful 23:35:25 elliott: ubuntu is free, think of it as still being cheaper than windows vista.. and you get a free disk drive! 23:35:44 today i found out we've got a 10" hard drive in another room 23:36:03 it's huge and bulky and the metal casing is like 2cm thick cast iron 23:36:22 with reinforcement grid 23:36:28 it could survive an atomic blast ez 23:37:13 actually i think it might be 14" 23:38:17 http://rigaux.org/language-study/syntax-across-languages --> people here might be interested 23:38:52 -!- j-invariant has joined. 23:58:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).