< 1295222402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects are pages < 1295222407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morphisms are ... redirections! < 1295222414 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youcan be the next paul graham < 1295222419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1295222437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll use lots of template haskell, so nobody can read it without first studying every macro < 1295222439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's your prediction about Haskell? < 1295222440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like paul graham did! < 1295222445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1295222449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote web frameworks < 1295222449 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes for this person. BOB says: You seem to have forgotten your passwd, enter another! < 1295222452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote 2009 < 1295222453 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e says: I propose that all of f, g, h and i be made illegal. (referring to http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/StricterLabelledFieldSyntax as it existed on 2009-10-05) < 1295222457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote 2009 < 1295222457 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e says: I propose that all of f, g, h and i be made illegal. (referring to http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/StricterLabelledFieldSyntax as it existed on 2009-10-05) < 1295222463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote Combinatorial < 1295222463 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird says: 2009: The Year of the Combinatorial Explosion of Haskell Web Frameworks. Also, the Linux Desktop. < 1295222465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ^ < 1295222475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it's not 2009 any more, but who cares < 1295222484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Haskell web framework in the works, isn't there? < 1295222490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are thousands :P < 1295222503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one that I heard of >.> < 1295222511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://snapframework.com/ < 1295222511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.yesodweb.com/ < 1295222515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://happstack.com/index.html < 1295222546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: happstack is the maintained fork of the dead-but-famous HAppS < 1295222551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://happs.org/ < 1295222558 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About throwing up that weetabix < 1295222573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: But Weetabix is delicious! < 1295222580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delicious like CEREAL BLOCK < 1295222622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lol, what have I done, I'm actually writing example code for a web framework now :( < 1295222626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this makes me a bad person < 1295222629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least i'm optimising for insanity < 1295222635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marketing: < 1295222639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The perfect web framework for type theorists! < 1295222666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ph.D. getting you nowhere? Have to take a job in the web development industry? We feel your pain. And we're going to give you some more! < 1295222698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap's the only one I heard of < 1295222712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because Snap is the one with the obnoxious Ruby-style marketing flash. < 1295222739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: D.entity [d| data Item = Item { text :: String } |] < 1295222748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: guess what this does? hint: the answer is not "define text :: Item -> String" < 1295222755 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1295222777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be the obvious thing) < 1295222781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and therefore wrong, in this context) < 1295222804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, better than haXe, which seems to be an entire LANGUAGE based on marketting flash < 1295222849 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott well it must creaet an HTML tag for this data type < 1295222853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: LOL < 1295222859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: no, no, better, this has nothing to do with the web, this particular bit < 1295222866 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1295222867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: what it does is make text a data-accessor < 1295222880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. http://hackage.haskell.org/package/data-accessor < 1295222886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to do item^.text < 1295222895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, that's USEFUL! totally useful! < 1295222903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and overloading the normal definition syntax? < 1295222906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally the right way to go about it < 1295222923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: can you reassure me that I won't accidentally invent something useful here :/ < 1295222958 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THE NEXT PAUL GRAHAM < 1295222971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what i'm doing here as a joke is disturbingly like what Yesod does < 1295222982 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's web for ya < 1295222994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no, it's clearly proof that I cannot avoid injecting my genius into things < 1295223004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i continue, i will have the world's first good web framework! < 1295223010 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's another way to look at it :P < 1295223019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, I will make shit smell like flowers and taste like lemonade < 1295223029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that's somewhat less impressive < 1295223335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1295223387 0 :Oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-95.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1295223432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklopol is an poklo ol, confirm/deny? < 1295223500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: LOL, it looks like just about everything I wrote as a joke is a yesod core feature < 1295223509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we're learning here is: Haskell, lol < 1295223521 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh that's it, you are SO sued for slander. < 1295223532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure thing, Mr. Weetabix. < 1295223538 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofn < 1295223572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you mean Mr. Oklopol's-Lawyer. -stein. < 1295223593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Rolling On the Floor, Neglecting parts of my life by playing minecraft? < 1295223614 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah Yes < 1295223673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do you know what makes me SAD? Two-way parsers aren't powerful enough to parse most things < 1295223684 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a theorem? < 1295223686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(single combinator definition a la parsec but only Applicative that can both parse and deparse) < 1295223690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: someone proved it to me on #haskell once :-D < 1295223692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SOUNDS LIKE IT'S TIME FOR A THREE-WAY THEN. < 1295223702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Parsing, deparsing, and ... ARSING?! < 1295223704 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stop destroying my dreams < 1295223712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i know it's horrible, i wanted to write all parsers like that forever < 1295223717 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g228062004.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1295223749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heww yeah. < 1295223770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: (Foo =:<= digit) <: digit <: digit < 1295223775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm so glad your dialect has a convenient rhyme :P < 1295223781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> 123 is (Foo '2' '3') and vice versa < 1295223786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1295223803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "arse" < 1295223808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D < 1295223813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arse arse arse. < 1295223815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARSE < 1295223910 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295223975 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: great now I have all the Obsidian I need -- just have to get a pick to mine it < 1295223995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: FAIL < 1295224004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you're meant to use buckets of lava and water to construct the portal in-place < 1295224006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using cobbles to guard it < 1295224011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, you don't have to mine it later < 1295224013 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait a sec < 1295224013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is exceedingly tedious < 1295224015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20-30s per block < 1295224024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are meant to *create the obsidian in the right place* the first time :) < 1295224039 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought of thhat < 1295224042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure to see http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Portal for how to make a portal and also how to cut corners if you want to avoid using too much obsidian < 1295224106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1295224110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: obsidian is renewable < 1295224112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even when a portal is built with only 10 blocks of Obsidian (by leaving out the corners), the portal frame spawned on the other side will have the full 14 blocks." < 1295224134 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295224151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUxhO9VLKPY < 1295224167 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contrary to public belief[2], portals do not conserve momentum. < 1295224197 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that song :D < 1295224413 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1468410 maybe somebody know what this piece does in prolog < 1295224418 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how to use it? < 1295224435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION *still* finds it somewhat odd that the Super Bowl is actually broadcast outside of the US... < 1295224453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there that many non-Americans that give a crap? < 1295224490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Impossible to say without the context, dude. But it looks like some kind of proof-generating system. < 1295224504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night. < 1295224509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295224515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't even air the same ads! < 1295224520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, unfortunately, there are < 1295224532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, well. There is Canada, which actually has *reason* to care. < 1295224549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, they also play football. < 1295224653 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, dunno if anyone else cares < 1295224713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it certainly gets *shown* elsewhere. < 1295224736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many Brits are likely to give a damn, though? < 1295224773 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that's a prolog interpreter < 1295224790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dominion episode1 < 1295224825 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to modify that to produce proof trees < 1295224831 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know prolog < 1295224900 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm constructive prolog < 1295225036 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine what a proof tree would look like for prolog < 1295225046 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically and execution trace < 1295225051 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1295225060 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i'd like < 1295225072 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't get it :D < 1295225184 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ! does? < 1295225228 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! is the hardest part of prolog to understand. < 1295225255 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cs.union.edu/~striegnk/learn-prolog-now/html/node96.html < 1295225255 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically they had implemented prolog in a very specific way, and exploited the way it was done to add this new ! thing < 1295225259 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is X here? < 1295225270 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the consequence is that ! makes no sense < 1295225338 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They way they implemented prolog was to have it every time a choice can be made they push that set of branches to a stack < 1295225368 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! erases all the alternatives of the top most choice point < 1295225518 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295225538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cuts j-invariant  < 1295225596 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made up a program to track the dynamic memory usage of other program. Is there better ways? < 1295225665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 1 ps < 1295225694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will happen if I eat clementines as my only fruit? < 1295225715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Currently, I'm not eating fruits on a regular basis] < 1295225765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you'll be at a much lower risk of scurvy. < 1295225767 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it answer to me? < 1295225773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah. < 1295225796 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am on Windows, though. (The program is cross-platform, however.) < 1295225816 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not like Windows that much; UNIX is better, but Windows is what I have, so I use it.) < 1295225834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that depends on "topmost"; I mean, for a(X,Y,Z) :- b(X), b(Y), !, b(Z) where b(X) can produce multiple choices, the ! will make it not backtrack to try out different values for either X or Y; not just cut the latest possible branching point where the value for Y was determined. (It will also not try some hypothetical other a(X,Y,Z) :- whatever rule it otherwise could.) < 1295225886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the program: http://sprunge.us/IHEa You can tell me if I did something wrong. < 1295226035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do humans peel certain fruits? < 1295226084 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the rind is difficult and/or unrewarding to eat < 1295226095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Probably from not liking eating some of the outsides. < 1295226206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-human animals are presumably ok with it < 1295226238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^not a good reason to do what non-human animals do < 1295226299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another reason might be if it is dirty outside. < 1295226307 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, some people do like to eat the peeling. < 1295226311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Mostly just preference. < 1295226314 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sometimes separately from the inside part) < 1295226428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Though some fruits are actually inedible without peeling. < 1295226442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does that make sense? < 1295226458 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then don't eat it! < 1295226473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do non-human animals do with such fruits? < 1295226486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did these fruits evolve after mankind started peeling fruits? < 1295226529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's "inedible to humans". < 1295226536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1295226628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, you must remember that most human-consumed foods are the result of artificial selection. < 1295226655 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1295226729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fun fact: the bananas we typically cultivate & consume cannot survive without human intervention!) < 1295226927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, this is actually true of an *insane* number of species...) < 1295226987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE CREATED BY GOD FOR US < 1295227030 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, when you mention bananas, it's worth noting that animals do typically peel bananas < 1295227034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: God created the turkey-physically-incapable-of-having-sex? < 1295227059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: How in the world do non-primates handle that? < 1295227086 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295227106 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Either they eat the bananas or don't eat them or do weird things to them? < 1295227116 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295227133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Peel bananas", specifically. < 1295227158 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my suggestion was that they do not < 1295227160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1295227481 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghh < 1295227712 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION belongs to the Church of Google anyways < 1295227731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm being recruited < 1295227845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Why did you belong to the Church of Google? < 1295227900 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well god has to be omniscient right? and doesn't google fit that criteria ? < 1295227914 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also google answers my prayers - whatever I want to know - it knows < 1295227928 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also - google is all good - it can do no evil < 1295227942 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google MUST be god < 1295227977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Google does not know everything. Many things I find it hard to find at all no matter what. < 1295228095 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, then you must not be a True Believer. Have more trust in your query and you shall learn < 1295228097 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use Google very often. < 1295228111 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tsk tsk. < 1295228116 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust The Google. < 1295228121 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love The Google. < 1295228131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give all thine data to The Google and The Google shall give all its love to you. < 1295228159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I more often use Wikipedia to search for information than I use Google. < 1295228213 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, wikipedia is a saint in the Church of Google < 1295228262 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I don't care who they are a saint of or not. < 1295228277 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I use a lot of different things. < 1295228323 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will ask on IRC, and search some things on Veronica. And I have some books, I will look there. Or, looking at the files I have in my computer. < 1295228334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do sometimes search Google, as well. < 1295228407 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, your taking the fun out of it < 1295228410 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tis called a joke < 1295228416 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does all those things too < 1295228418 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1295228438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not use Google as much as most other people, however. < 1295228590 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, tbh I'm finding that google is getting worse and worse < 1295228608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: I also find it getting worse and worse. In more than one way. < 1295229390 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1295230570 0 :acetoline!~acetoline@125-237-12-196.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1295231200 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295231538 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent a chess variant involving some esolangs. < 1295231637 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ever play Crobots? < 1295231684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: No. < 1295231694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have heard of it though. < 1295231779 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, HQ9+ could be the pawn :P < 1295231826 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if the game is designed to work in a way that is like that. < 1295231875 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't really serious < 1295231890 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other ideas are: Make a game based on 2-dimensional esolangs. Make a game with some hidden information. Make a game involving cards with commands to execute on the board. < 1295231925 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Yes, it certainly does not seem sensible that you could make a chess variant where HQ9+ could be the pawn (or where any esolang "could be the pawn"). < 1295231975 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be a game with normal chess board/chess pieces, or one with a different size of board and different pieces. < 1295231976 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, what I liked about crobots was that you could make some complicated program that did all sorts of stuf.. but then it would get killed by a simple program because the complicated one was bloated and slow in comparison < 1295232738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a chess variant involving pieces with the INTERCAL commands on them. < 1295232811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it says something about me that I generally have to close dozens of Wikipedia pages every day... < 1295232830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what, though. < 1295232855 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't strike me as a very unique problem :) < 1295232879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a pretty common problem, really. < 1295232912 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly ever have more than two Wikipedia pages open at once. < 1295233160 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1295233212 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I'd have to agree.. when I get on wikipedia, if I get more than a few tabs opened, I'm doomed, because that means I'll be on there all night as my tabs grow to infinity < 1295234024 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me whether or not this is good enough: http://sprunge.us/NXPL < 1295234081 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you seem to have pasted a tex document and not a runnable or compileable program < 1295234137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It is compileable program, but it requires Enhanced CWEB. Also, it won't compile without TeXnicard, because of the line that says #include "texnicard.c" < 1295234162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean just to read to see if the memory usage stuff is workable or if there is something wrong with it. < 1295234354 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1295235422 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295235545 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 241 seconds < 1295236673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM. Cloud. < 1295236675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1295237081 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1295237133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because eCloud Technologies is going to let us enter the Internet Age! < 1295237183 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am absolutely bursting to tell people about the awesome thing I just did. < 1295237188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But alas, I cannot. < 1295237199 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For about a month and a half) < 1295237213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NDA? < 1295237219 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1295237262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too awesome for our brains to comprehend, and we need to wait for your newfound singularity to improve our brains enough to be able to understand it? < 1295237271 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closer to that. < 1295237290 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that much closer, but the competition is "NDA" :P < 1295237291 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1295237304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1295237319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, "NDA" is at least *plausible*. < 1295237336 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not close :P < 1295237342 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor finally made contact with aliens < 1295237352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even closer! < 1295237376 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Still not close at all, but indisputably closer) < 1295237392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor finally made contact with ... something < 1295237401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less close :P < 1295237427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the aliens are the close part? < 1295237449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor did something with an FFI (hence the closeness of "aliens") < 1295237470 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm ... about equally close. In the "still not close at all" sense. < 1295237485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor did something. < 1295237491 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY! < 1295237513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you Sgeo now we cannot get closer! < 1295237551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly remembers ais523's aversion to "damn you" < 1295237769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMNATION BE UPON ÞEE < 1295237801 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295238326 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL|afk < 1295242466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott did stuff with Factor < 1295242467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1295243401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hasn't he done something in nearly every non-crap language you heard of (and possibly a few of the crap ones too) < 1295243433 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1295243439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hasn't actually done anything about them < 1295243450 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just yelled at us about how dumb we are for not having done it for him < 1295243466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably he ignored the mediocre and tried out the real crappy ones. I seem to remember he tried to code something in "Plain English" just for the laughs. < 1295243520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that might be a bit of an extreme point of view. The truth is probably in between < 1295243558 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your leg hurt yet? if not I'll pull it harder < 1295243574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh right. I just woke up :P < 1295243603 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, besides if I can't clearly detect humour I default to taking a statement as serious < 1295243612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to look at Io again < 1295243680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why are you so language-ambivalent? < 1295243700 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the language or the moon? < 1295243705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assure you the latter is more interesting < 1295243709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1295243718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, :D < 1295243725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the Io hate? < 1295243737 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not Io hate < 1295243750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that Io is friggin awesome < 1295243767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, not as awesome as Europe or Titan iirc? < 1295243771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the most active body in the solar system < 1295243772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's because he's speaking in French the entire series, and the Universal Translator turns it into vaguely british sounding English." On Jean-Luc Picard. < 1295243776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1295243779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh okay < 1295243779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D:D:D < 1295243788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah < 1295243813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where is that from? < 1295243830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an "anti-block" in Io? < 1295243850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Force this piece of code to be executed before the surrounding function looks at it < 1295243853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: TVtropes. < 1295243867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io loses one ton a second of material to the Jovian magnetosphere < 1295243869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh. I would have gussed memory alpha for something that absurd ;P < 1295243886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not absurd in the context of the series, it really isn't. < 1295243893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, wow < 1295243904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, when does Io die? < 1295243908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well I watched (part of) the series. < 1295243922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and I still think it is rather absurd :P < 1295243928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did Riker have a beard? < 1295243941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, seen both with and without that < 1295243943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly with it < 1295243960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, good, you didn't soley get the pain of the first season. < 1295243977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, some of the first season was okay < 1295243984 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first season was painful < 1295243993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the Q stuff though < 1295244001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ranged from mediocre to OH HOLY GOD THAT HURTS. < 1295244008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah < 1295244011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the exception of the first appearance of Q. < 1295244020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was put in as *filler*... < 1295244022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed that was okay, the second was not < 1295244047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To pad the series opening out to two hours. < 1295244054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. Off to university now. < 1295244064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is Io a bit of an anti-Haskell? < 1295244072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG was at its best when it was full of philosophy < 1295244085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell, you can (kind of) substitute definitions for .. defined things < 1295244091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was at its worst when it was trying to be TOS with a different cast. < 1295244133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In most languages, you don't expect a difference between passing in an expression, and a name containing the value of the resulting expression < 1295244149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's a term for that, mentioned in SICP, but I don;t know what it is < 1295244154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io throws that out the window < 1295244174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: As does C. Macros! < 1295244210 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: referential transparency < 1295244215 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh, you're wrong < 1295244222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1295244224 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :referential transparency is a rare feature < 1295244260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is, in most languages: < 1295244263 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1295244264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = foo() < 1295244267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b(a) < 1295244268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Really? Most languages at least have it for pass-by-value. < 1295244271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the same as < 1295244277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b(foo()) < 1295244284 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's not referential transparency < 1295244289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :referential transparency is < 1295244293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not referential transparency, but there's a name for it in SICP < 1295244296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1295244302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read it >.> < 1295244308 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b(foo()) != b(2) where foo() returns 2 < 1295244323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no language with side-effects does < 1295244334 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1295244342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh, dur, I should've specified "modulo side effects". < 1295244356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I construe this conversation as a defense for Io? < 1295244358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that makes it nearly meaningless as a distinction. < 1295244363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah < 1295244379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot imagine a language that did not have referential transparency modulo side effects < 1295244395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: prease to be explraining preblerm < 1295244419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io does not have referencial transparency modulo side effects. < 1295244426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*referential < 1295244428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1295244437 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k I'm going to bed now < 1295244440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Tcl doesn't always. < 1295244449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be misunderstanding < 1295244463 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my god < 1295244464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, you have to be doing nasty things to it for that to come up. < 1295244468 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295244488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About on par with heavy, heavy macroing in Lisp. < 1295244494 0 :acetoline!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1295244521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, the joys of a *first-class stack*) < 1295244540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the thing with Io is, every call can be to what another language would call a "macro", and it might be easier to write macros in Io < 1295244545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Haven't begun experimenting yet) < 1295244555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, not first-class. < 1295244555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: until your compiler is first-class, you aren't doing it right :P < 1295244564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... Readily accessible call stack. < 1295244587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sadly, the dodekalogue is not modifiable. < 1295244616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, this is an if statement in Io: < 1295244616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(b == 0, c + 1, d) < 1295244643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's not nearly as revealing as I want < 1295244658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System args foreach(k, v, write("'", v, "'\n")) < 1295244677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Looks like side effects to me. :P < 1295244696 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Now the Lagerholm estimate is 19th. Wonder if that 15th was processing error or if he added couple of days for processing delay. < 1295244743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably processing delay. < 1295244765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people select(age < 30) < 1295244805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As APNIC is *definitely* below his declared threshold right now. < 1295245621 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1295245887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Io, strings have encodings < 1295245897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... just makes no sense < 1295245920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encodings refer to the physical representation, not to.. an inherit property of Unicode text < 1295247847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am suddenly reminded of Haskellian laziness < 1295247903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Praise be to the almightly lambda. < 1295247907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almighty, even. < 1295248306 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking that Unicode isn't superset of everything? < 1295248466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m my comment on Haskellian laziness < 1295248891 0 :acetoline!~acetoline@125-237-12-196.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1295249762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes how Googleable Ioke is < 1295250009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes the distinction between the place where methods accessible from anywhere go (Ground) and the [kind of] top level Object (Origin) < 1295250084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it might be DefaultBehavior, not Ground, I'm not sure < 1295250257 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY. FUCKING. CRAP. < 1295250262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts worshipping Ioke < 1295250360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ioke.org/wiki/index.php/Guide#Let < 1295250378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course, it's a power that can be abused, but it gives lots of interesting possibilities for expression." < 1295250392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, it prevents poisoning of the global state < 1295250419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can think of potential bad interactions though < 1295250791 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1295251199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1295251200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1295251307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excitement of the day: can Sgeo manage to break up with Ioke before elliott wakes up and modifies shutup? < 1295251394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: We should have some sort of a betting pool. < 1295251408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1295251441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, let might not be as useful for what I was imagining < 1295251875 0 :TLUL|afk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1295252038 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurr... APNIC has allocated over 8M addresses just this month... < 1295252731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty insane allocation rate. < 1295253726 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295254438 0 :choochter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-oxugrbupozrjhdyq JOIN :#esoteric < 1295254874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the estimate is 20th... Anyway, one would expect the allocation request very soon (or it may already have been sent)... < 1295255013 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the threshold is 2, one would expect allocation request to be sent today... < 1295260477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1295261148 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295261260 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295262348 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295262455 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295262459 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295262906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that was pleasantly unexpected < 1295263444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :email conversation goes vaguely like this: service X seems to do everything we want but that would violate the terms of service you seem to be right, I'll look for a different service < 1295263454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does not fit in with the typical stereotype of an employer < 1295263475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although companies tend to be more worried about doing something illegal than individual people, as they can be relatively large targets to sue) < 1295263523 0 :acetoline!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1295263537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wtf?: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/01/16/2110254/Facebook-Opens-Up-Home-Addresses-and-Phone-Numbers < 1295263571 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295263669 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295264771 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295264869 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295265970 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295266067 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295266209 0 :wth!~tianhou@122.82.33.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295266330 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295267169 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295267266 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295267547 0 :wth!~tianhou@122.82.33.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295267562 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295267588 0 :wth!~tianhou@122.82.33.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295267599 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295267898 0 :wth!~tianhou@122.82.33.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295267946 0 :wth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295268096 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295270565 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1295270591 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295270614 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g231048214.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1295271193 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1295273015 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1295273584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1295273648 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295274253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295274269 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295274295 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@dias.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1295277582 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1295277585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/5rNti.jpg < 1295277625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:44:17 HOLY. FUCKING. CRAP. < 1295277625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:44:22 * Sgeo starts worshipping Ioke < 1295277626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1295277636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dad blamed"? < 1295277706 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-131.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295277741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% This program is public domain, but if you combine it with GPL program, < 1295277741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% the combination is licensed by GPL. < 1295277747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That is not even close to legally valid. < 1295277752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You be in charge of telling him why not. < 1295277755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1295277761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either trivially true, or utterly invalid. < 1295277860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:40:07 zzo38, your taking the fun out of it < 1295277865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you're taking the 're out of you're < 1295277881 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hrm? < 1295277891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're < 1295277892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1295277904 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fuck you < 1295277912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, thanks < 1295277916 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1295277918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: swat variable for me < 1295277921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE SPELLS OUR GRAMMARS PROPERLY HERE IN #ESOTERIC < 1295277934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dad blamed is apparently a euphemism for god damned < 1295277940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1295278002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, in Sgeoland, a euphemism for BANNED < 1295278010 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm elliott that statement is invalid because of the "this program is public domain" < 1295278015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: i recall a recent reddit post arguing that people correcting each other's grammar and spelling is the only thing keeping communities from descending into youtube comment quality < 1295278022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/post/comment/ < 1295278033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: preeeecisely...except /arguably/ it is just stating informatively /what/ the GPL demands < 1295278039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way, it's completely useless text :) < 1295278073 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1295278076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or was it recent, it may have been just linked from a recent reddit comment < 1295278081 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you find that? < 1295278108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: the program zzo linked yesterday < 1295278111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is a fan of terrible licensing! < 1295278122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can't seem to not invent his own ... like everything else ... < 1295278127 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why do I get the feeling that 50% of the comments were a flame about some perfectly normal variation? ie color v colour ? < 1295278136 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1295278145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: well that happens of course :D < 1295278161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a saw someone complaining about "whilst" yesterday < 1295278165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i < 1295278166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: *colour vs. colour < 1295278170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you illiterate American bastard! < 1295278206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: however on reddit that just means we're in for the _next_ commenter giving us a lesson < 1295278234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1295278238 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did I mention that UK shows are so much better than the Americanized versions (Hustle v Leverage)? < 1295278275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is of course _almost_ indistinguishable from parts of reddit < 1295278279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: you are granted temporary lenience. < 1295278283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er are you sure about that :D < 1295278310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey i corrected it to "parts of" before pressing enter! < 1295278335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd like to see a subreddit as flamewarry as here... or as interesting... or as off-topic < 1295278397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r/politics for the first perhaps? < 1295278415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok but with #esoteric the important thing is that it's intelligent people arguing like morons < 1295278425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U WRONG! < 1295278426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/r/politics is just morons arguing like morons < 1295278543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1295278544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also things go off-topic all the time in the comments < 1295278575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well sure, but I just don't really see this place as being similar to reddit < 1295278592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: proggit circa early 2007, perhaps < 1295278613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people keep complaining about r/science not having real science although i saw a post indicating they were intending to moderate more restrictively < 1295278615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:13:44 Please tell me whether or not this is good enough: http://sprunge.us/NXPL < 1295278615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:14:41 hmm, you seem to have pasted a tex document and not a runnable or compileable program < 1295278621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ENHAAAAAANCED CWEEEEEEEEEEB < 1295278641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*start moderating < 1295278660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives you PROGRAMMING POWERS < 1295278670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write a BOOK and it's a PROGRAM but a BOOK and a program yet a BOOK! < 1295278678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT RENDERS LINE NUMBERS TO .DVI < 1295278734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:34:26 elliott did stuff with Factor < 1295278734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:34:27 huh < 1295278734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I had a half-broken commit made to the repository that got fixed by Slava and made "0 /" give a less horrific exception. < 1295278745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:50:33 no < 1295278745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:50:39 he hasn't actually done anything about them < 1295278745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:50:50 just yelled at us about how dumb we are for not having done it for him < 1295278753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cat coppro: factually incorrect < 1295278753 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: factually incorrect < 1295278772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I accidentally killed coppro's dog or something < 1295278794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thinking about it, it's possible that i just tune out the parts i like the least from both places, making them converge :) < 1295278807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE < 1295278808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1295278827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1295278957 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what < 1295278958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it takes a few more lines than that to make me _start_ tuning out, naturally :D < 1295278969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pumpkin enclosed with leaves, how odd < 1295278972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE < 1295278972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE < 1295278973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE < 1295278973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE < 1295278973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE < 1295278973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FUCK YOU ASSHOLE < 1295278974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1295278985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah whatever < 1295278994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok this whole tree seems to exist solely to conceal pumpkins < 1295279003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do ypu dislike Ioke? I assume if you do, it's for the same "It has no rules" reason for hating Io < 1295279031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably better than Io but I don't see any reason to give it any attention. < 1295279045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, IIRC, JVM-hosted, which is a strong negative. < 1295279058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION paging shutup in 1, 2... < 1295279176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Waaay too lazy to add anything to it since it doesn't seem to have done anything. < 1295279198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still broken? < 1295279229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not done anything to Sgeo you mean < 1295279246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you do not seriously _expect_ people to respond constructively to harassment, do you? < 1295279266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_even_ if you're right about the fundamental issue < 1295279363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :triggering people's basic defense instincts is not a way to make them behave rationally. < 1295279449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i imagine Sgeo caring that much about shutup anyhow < 1295279513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION always feels hypocritical when talking about how people should behave :( < 1295279912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i _have_ tried talking him out of it, and yelling at him directly < 1295279920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can hardly program a bot to talk rationally, so instead it yells < 1295279932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patches welcome :P < 1295279999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295280047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think you might want to remove the "simple little" part from the mcmap README's first line. < 1295280054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite a hefty program now. :p < 1295280056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1295280088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple little behemoth < 1295280113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does mcmap have a built-in colour for TNT? < 1295280124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I haven't done a thing. < 1295280137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heh, I'm going to tweak the dependency-generating rule with that option that ignores non-existent headers, assuming they're generated; currently it won't generate dependencies if protocol-data.h doesn't exist. < 1295280171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you expect me to take your word on that? < 1295280179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draaaaaaaaama. < 1295280193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you know I didn't push a SECRET UPDATE to decolour TNT!!?!??@49837869rumkf < 1295280326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Srsly, all I did last night was walk around. < 1295280332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently lost somewhere far away from the Cube. < 1295280456 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295280500 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/ < 1295280510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what are the coords of spawn again... < 1295280524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also outdated: "If you leave it out, the window will be resizable, but resize events are not handled, so something bad will probably happen. (Fixing this is on the hypothetical TODO list.)" < 1295280533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I pushed that build system fix, btw. < 1295280552 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295280641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:40] ais523: hi <-- hi < 1295280662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are good times to bug you about scapegoat relative to your sleep schedule? :-P < 1295280689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, the issue for me now is that I'm looking at #esoteric when people speak there < 1295280692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not really taking in any of the words < 1295280704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: minecraft, eh :P < 1295280709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1295280726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: surely the tab colour for minecraft is different if you've been pinged? < 1295280729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's xchat default, at least < 1295280740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is < 1295280767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as I said, I just noticed I'd been pinged, looked at the channel, then went back to looking at something else < 1295280770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and again, didn't actually read it < 1295280775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my brain is IRCing on autopilot < 1295280823 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: check the link i pasted < 1295280827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IF I PING YOU LIKE THIS WOULD IT HELP < 1295280872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BEEP BEEP WAKE UP BEEEEEEEP < 1295280923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP < 1295280930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I only noticed the third one < 1295280938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, i'll use that in future < 1295280947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably only because I was looking at the channel at the time < 1295280971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is why most people have system-wide indicators if they've been pinged :P < 1295280972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. sound < 1295280977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I /do/ < 1295280983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're...deaf? < 1295280998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just _really_ good at ignoring things? < 1295281008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I just don't react to the fact I was pinged for whatever reason < 1295281013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1295281014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, #esoteric was set not to trigger them < 1295281017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably has something to do with it < 1295281022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been a mouse-typo weeks ago < 1295281032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be something worth fixing :p < 1295281050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I looked in the client's config, and there was a specific config entry meaning "#esoteric should not ping me no matter what's said there" < 1295281051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed now < 1295281057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know if you heard the last time I said, but my scapegoat implementation can now order and apply changesets < 1295281063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1295281070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which I think means it does automatic merging < 1295281084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens on a changeset that contains a conflict? < 1295281085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the changeset {A, B}, when applied, will produce an automatic merge of A and B if one is possible, right? < 1295281088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it returns Nothing :-) < 1295281092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my only failure mechanism right now < 1295281098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1295281102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to get it as platonically elegant as possible before ruining it < 1295281108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can upgrade it to a better monad later < 1295281122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Either, for the purpose of returning more details about the problem < 1295281127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doubt it needs to be a monad; just (Either ApplyError [Line]) < 1295281131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is (Either a) a monad? < 1295281135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1295281135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it only is under certain conditions < 1295281150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just Maybe + error message < 1295281169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you use Right as the actual value, and Left as the error condition; its >>= is defined with that assumption < 1295281173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1295281207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, what do you think I should implement next? I was thinking changes-on-sets (i.e. directories), but I'm not sure < 1295281228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it might be better to ask me when I'm capable of concious thought < 1295281232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it seems I'm not at the moment < 1295281234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and my attempts to refit the code to allow genericisation have resulted in ugliness < 1295281246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, try and remember to ping me when you are then :P < 1295281316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my sleep schedule is mostly OK except I was awake all night Saturday -> Sunday, due to looking after a relative < 1295281326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is the first week of term < 1295281429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have a report deadline < 1295281495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just one question if you feel conscious enough to answer it: do you think it's possible to derive the file changes with an F([String]) and the directory changes with F(Set DirEntry) for the same F? < 1295281506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. are they direct analogues of each other that can be auto-generated? < 1295281526 0 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1295281534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, probably not, because the way you specify context is different < 1295281536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal_: what coords are spawn, do you know? < 1295281539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: define context? < 1295281542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1295281546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because with a list, you go between two elements < 1295281549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1295281550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with a set, you specify the whole set < 1295281551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1295281551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to insert to < 1295281555 0 :Vorpal_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Vorpal < 1295281564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a big enough difference to confuse type systems < 1295281565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [17:29:57] Vorpal_: what coords are spawn, do you know? <-- no idea < 1295281574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some smallish positive number? < 1295281578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x and z < 1295281579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well i know that :) < 1295281584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this channel still talking about minecraft? < 1295281585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even then, I've been trying to make a "Change" typeclass so that I can define operations generic to change type ... but this might be fruitless < 1295281607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at the same time, I think I still want _some_ sort of genericity, because e.g. both types of change have the same metadata < 1295281609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is: < 1295281611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :author, date, etc. < 1295281611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1295281617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm a bit confused :) < 1295281621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just getting levels of abstraction right < 1295281631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's coming up in my research atm and confusing me < 1295281636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I'll make a distinction between "changes" and "patches" < 1295281639 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my computer crashed. Something with USB is shoddy and can cause a reset. < 1295281645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: change = basic operation; patch = change + metadata < 1295281649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: changes reference patches < 1295281653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1295281660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., a change might be "insert 'foo' between patch1 and patch2", and a patch using it might be: < 1295281662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how useful the naming is there, but I doubt any other naming would do better < 1295281663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :author: elliott < 1295281666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :date: [now] < 1295281670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert 'foo' between patch1 and patch2 < 1295281673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the concepts are certainly useful < 1295281678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, a patch is the kind of thing you'd show to another person, a change isn't < 1295281714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, here's a concept English doesn't have a word for, and comes up a lot in programming: imagine something like a computer game (Minecraft perhaps?) where you want to generate some in-game concept (perhaps monsters) < 1295281733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now we're on-topic! ...wait... < 1295281738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err? < 1295281743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two ways you can define "monster": an individual monster in a location on the map, or the concept of that monster that it's generated from < 1295281756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1295281771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd call the former a monster and the latter a monster-class < 1295281773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or monster-type < 1295281775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, how do you name the second type of monster, to show it's distinct from the first? < 1295281778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those don't make sense to refer to Changes as < 1295281786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean like the idea of an monster (as in Platon (sp in English?)) < 1295281788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that wasn't a scapegoat reference at all < 1295281788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that's what you're trying to say < 1295281790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1295281798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what < 1295281800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, I've seen "platonic" used to describe the concept before < 1295281806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sort of... < 1295281809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a template vs. instance < 1295281809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't seem to fit exactly < 1295281813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use OOP TERMINOLOGY!!192871349 < 1295281814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the second could perhaps be an instance of a monster < 1295281817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in fact, this is almost directly OOP < 1295281819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class vs. instance < 1295281821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except you need multiple inheritance < 1295281822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: er no < 1295281826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is the class < 1295281827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1295281836 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, which one do you mean is the second < 1295281839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which is the first < 1295281847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that came second in his message, perhaps? < 1295281850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thinking out loud here < 1295281854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are two ways you can define "monster": an individual monster in a location on the map, or the concept of that monster that it's generated from < 1295281856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yeah I mixed up order < 1295281859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was the other way around < 1295281860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clap < 1295281866 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1295281867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you need MI? < 1295281870 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1295281874 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what boredom does to people < 1295281886 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/712w0gTm < 1295281898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because sensibly, an individual monster needs to inherit from a monster class (if you're doing OO), and that's the way round nearly all games do it < 1295281914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's claiming it should also inherit from the monster template, which is entirely sensible except it requires MI < 1295281917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think it only is under certain conditions <-- the Left type needs an Error instance, is all < 1295281924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm < 1295281925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really < 1295281932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: class Grue < Monster := ... < 1295281935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: myGrue := new Grue < 1295281940 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/xyGf2UVF <- added some more info < 1295281941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1295281949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep. So the monster classes inherits from some base class. And then you have instances of each monster. This is one of the few situations where OOP terminology actually seems pretty sensible < 1295281950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but Monster shouldn't contain things like X and Y coordinates < 1295281955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nor should Grue < 1295281956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: is this on Windows? < 1295281958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but myGrue should < 1295281960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are quite rare < 1295281963 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Linux < 1295281965 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 10.10 < 1295281968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, yes they should < 1295281971 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.8GHz Intel Core 2 Qud < 1295281972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Monster should inherit from GridEntity < 1295281972 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quad* < 1295281980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: needs moar llvm < 1295281983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1295281983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang < 1295281987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: also pcc < 1295281992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also non-glibc libc < 1295281992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1295281997 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding clang < 1295282001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, I see, that makes complete sense if you have a fixed set of monsters < 1295282010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *monster types? < 1295282014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1295282023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most games are written in such a way that monster types could be added at runtime < 1295282029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird, as none of them actually do do that < 1295282039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: but Monster shouldn't contain things like X and Y coordinates <-- so you could have another base class that includes other things which has a position in the game world, "entity" seems like the best name? Though this is getting very far into OOP now... < 1295282045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does that clash with my way of doing it? < 1295282048 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bench.c:67:1: error: 'main' must return 'int' < 1295282052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: welcome to me, five lines ago < 1295282053 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing < 1295282060 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, that's clang) < 1295282074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it requires generation of classes at runtime < 1295282077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well you split your statements over more lines. Of course you get more said (though less per line) < 1295282094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So? :) < 1295282099 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott - looks like we have a current winner < 1295282100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: gcc's error is actually similarly useful in this case < 1295282104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is surprising < 1295282108 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gcc gave nothing! < 1295282110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you're testing this while you're running an irc client? < 1295282115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: -Wall fail < 1295282121 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that and Firefox < 1295282124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think that one's actually under -pedantic < 1295282128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: hahahaha < 1295282144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: benchmarks while running Firefox < 1295282145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1295282156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you want to make monsters at runtime you presumably also need to add some sort of game logic to them at runtime. Some sort of AI. Which means you need to add code at runtime anyway. < 1295282164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either by scripting language < 1295282170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or by loading native code, or something else < 1295282177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not that ridiculous, you can use the POSIX timer that counts only time spent by the process in question < 1295282186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ignores other processes on the same processor < 1295282189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where "native" could be byte code if you do it in java or whatever) < 1295282196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not a very good measurement < 1295282205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since it'll probably be quite a bit less than a machine just running the benchmark < 1295282207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and counting real time < 1295282216 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/FHwQ12XD < 1295282217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would you count waiting for IO and no other runnable task? < 1295282218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess it depends on how it treats kernel time, but still < 1295282223 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott it's not a speed benchmark < 1295282224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seems I was wrong, it's under both -Wall /and/ -pedantic < 1295282226 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a comparison between compilers < 1295282227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to that process or to nowhere? < 1295282236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO waits go to nowhere on that timer < 1295282236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: doesn't matter, your results are biased < 1295282247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to Firefox using different resources at different times, most likely < 1295282268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, which timer you use depends on what you're trying to measure < 1295282278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then how do you deal with virtualisation. You can't tell really where time went if you are virtualised. < 1295282288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O time is very relevant for benchmarking some programs, and not for others < 1295282295 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did not make a real difference < 1295282303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you can't know that... < 1295282311 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i turned off everything < 1295282317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed < 1295282320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: including X11? < 1295282320 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the console (used to run benchmarks), IRC client and 1 tab in Firefox < 1295282326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"everything" < 1295282334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have different definitions of everything < 1295282335 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need the irc client and firefox to update < 1295282337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours doesn't include X11, apparently < 1295282348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a whole bunch of system services too < 1295282368 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1295282375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could use emulation, rather than virtualisation, for consistent benchmarks < 1295282384 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i will zip up the compiled binaries < 1295282386 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the source code < 1295282392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: how would that help you benchmark them? < 1295282395 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put it up so you can test it < 1295282400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I wouldn't want to < 1295282401 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1295282405 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can i find pcc, elliott? < 1295282408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not me who wants the benchmark results < 1295282409 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neither would I :P < 1295282421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pcc.ludd.ltu.se/ < 1295282422 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want benchmarks just to compare two situations (different softwares, before/after change) or such just turn off most CPU intensive stuff then set cpu frequency governor to performance. Then time the thing a number of times and take the average. < 1295282424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need the CVS versoin < 1295282425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*version < 1295282426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time that works well < 1295282427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also pcc-libs < 1295282441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would say "ugh CVS", except that I'm using RCS for a serious project < 1295282443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly by mistake < 1295282444 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: timing a number of times is done by Linpack < 1295282451 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, the other bits? < 1295282452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, they're BSD guys, they're luddites :) < 1295282474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not too awful, except for having to check out immediately after checking in when I'm the only person working on the file < 1295282482 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal - i do not know where to find the cpu governor and i tured off the cpu intensive stuff already, except what i need < 1295282485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CPU frequency really matters. ondemand is bad for quick benchmarks. Or anything where CPU load isn't high for a long time < 1295282495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really it seriously messes up timing < 1295282505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a locking VCS isn't really an issue at all when only one person is working on the file anyway < 1295282519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see if you used SCAPEGOAT ... wait, i can't use that on you < 1295282532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, cpufreq-set -g performance -c 0, repeat with -c 1 and so on for each core in your CPU < 1295282536 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs sudo < 1295282544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or su or whatever) < 1295282563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reckzb.imgur.com/new_haven_museum#q7EwQ < 1295282566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to restore just do cpufreq-set -g ondemand -c whatever for each core < 1295282571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats Deewiant's, I'm afraid. < 1295282575 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Loading cpufreq kernel modules... [fail] < 1295282580 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sudo'd < 1295282581 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or su'd < 1295282589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : admittedly by mistake <-- uh how did that happen? < 1295282593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sudo'd or su'd" -- ah, to be incompetent. < 1295282598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was using LyX < 1295282602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Man, that Painterly pack is weird. < 1295282606 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am root < 1295282607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he accidentally typed "rcs" < 1295282608 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tat's better < 1295282610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it all went downhill from there < 1295282612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the windows are different. < 1295282613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has version control integration, but doesn't state the VCS when setting it up < 1295282613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: root is better than sudo? < 1295282614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL. < 1295282620 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1295282622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out, the only VCS it actually integrates with is RCS < 1295282627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh. I just ignore it's built in vcs support. But doesn't it do svn nowdays too? < 1295282635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps as a plugin < 1295282635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rcs is preferable to svn < 1295282637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1295282641 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295282643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think in the very last version or such < 1295282645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SVN is much worse than RCS for a single-developer project < 1295282648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn is like cvs, except without historical justification < 1295282652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, very slow < 1295282655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it git? well some non-rcs anyway < 1295282655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FWIW, that museum must have been done with a map editor. < 1295282661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why? Bedrock? < 1295282665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main annoyance with svn is the lack of local history < 1295282677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've been using git-svn nowadays < 1295282686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for use with other people's svn repos < 1295282690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SCAPEGOAAAAT < 1295282693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, in the case of UnNetHack, tailor) < 1295282695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, but it has lapis, redstone and coal ore in the one room. < 1295282700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ah. < 1295282704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of which can be placed. < 1295282704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, we must add scapegoat support to tailor when we're done < 1295282713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a *lot* of blue wool there. < 1295282714 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1295282716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agreed, but IIRC Tailor's architecture is a bit bad? I forget < 1295282718 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1295282724 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295282728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm planning to write darcs2sg as soon as sg "works" so it can be tested < 1295282730 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway... /usr/include//stdio.h:34: error: cannot find 'stddef.h' < 1295282731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on real repos < 1295282732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's probably awful, although I've never looked at the source it has a tendency to fail randomly < 1295282736 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what pcc gives < 1295282741 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pcc-current.tgz < 1295282741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, not randomly, deterministically < 1295282751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without it being obvious what the relevant factors are < 1295282753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you didn't install pcc-libs. < 1295282760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: also, use cvs, not the .tgzs. < 1295282763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc-libs is only available via cvs too. < 1295282770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sg basically needs to-sg-repo support anyway, for converting old repositories < 1295282772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although VCS type seems to be one of them, and directory structure is possibly another < 1295282776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1295282778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so darcs can be done quite easily < 1295282787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from-sg would take actual work, but who would want to do that? :) < 1295282792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1295282813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it wouldn't be too hard < 1295282832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just need to figure out what to define as a merge from the point of view of the other VCS < 1295282859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could either do it completely linear or maximally branching; the second would probably be a more accurate view of things, the first would correspond to a rebase and rebases are evil < 1295282894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1295282912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, I typoed 3 in my terminal, realised that was an inappropriate place to typo it, so I moved the typo to #esoteric to get rid of ti) < 1295282914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1295282916 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc-libs is on the FTP too, but i'll try cvs < 1295282939 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is < 1295282941 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to remove pcc < 1295282954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you make installed it? < 1295282956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooooooool < 1295282964 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop loling < 1295282967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: into /usr? < 1295282967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it at least install in /usr/local? < 1295282967 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you hate me < 1295282970 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stop loling < 1295282979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't hate you, it's just i laugh at stupid decisions < 1295282979 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1295282991 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i only installed linux last week, keep it a little bit easier < 1295282994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: it's not too hard to uninstall, then; you just need to rm -r all the directory trees it created < 1295283004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easier if you know where they actually are < 1295283005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just rm -rf /usr/local if you haven't installed anything there before. < 1295283013 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: > llvm < 1295283021 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also parts of gcc < 1295283023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: good luck... < 1295283029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look to see if there's a make uninstall in the makefile < 1295283031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is sometimes < 1295283032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use --prefix=/opt/foo in future, or checkinstall < 1295283035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it even actually works < 1295283038 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: checked already < 1295283039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're BSD guys. they're luddites < 1295283039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it :) < 1295283051 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1295283053 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc wiped out manually < 1295283056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C-INTERCAL's does, although it doesn't uninstall previous versions) < 1295283056 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to get the cvs versions < 1295283120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you /must/ switch C-INTERCAL to scapegoat as soon as it's stable enough, I want to see esr's reaction < 1295283131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1295283148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything esr has said so far re: C-INTERCAL has been amusing < 1295283194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local install isn't ridiculously bad; it's comparable to the situation on Windows < 1295283205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: windows programs all have uninstallers < 1295283211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, but they generally don't work < 1295283217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they work better than nothing :) < 1295283288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the situation with Norton is ridiculous; it comes with an uninstaller that doesn't work, but you can download an uninstaller that does from the company website < 1295283304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, "isn't ridiculously bad; comparable to Windows" is a strange thing to say < 1295283317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you've used Windows, you know it isn't completely awful < 1295283326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I consider it usable but suboptimal and a pain to develop for < 1295283330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, no, but its /architecture/ is terrible < 1295283339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible and improving < 1295283343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not internally < 1295283350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Old New Thing can convince anyone of that < 1295283356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read it much < 1295283361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should, it's a good blog < 1295283372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1295283372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (sorry, I typoed 3 in my terminal, realised that was an inappropriate place to typo it, so I moved the typo to #esoteric to get rid of ti) < 1295283372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *it < 1295283381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1295283385 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you are joking right? It isn't some sort of OCD? < 1295283392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of awesome? < 1295283395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's something you won't believe < 1295283396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you never know with people of this channel) < 1295283406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am aware you can get rid of typos more easily than that < 1295283406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as far as I can tell, Raymond Chen wrote Linux 2.0's configuration interface bash script < 1295283418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Raymond Chen, of Old New Thing. *While working at Microsoft.* < 1295283427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just in a mood to give this one a home < 1295283428 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes. But would you use the other way? < 1295283433 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1295283435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was credited to a Raymond Chen, it had an @microsoft.com email, and IIRC googling the email vaguely pointed me in his direction. < 1295283452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not completely implausible < 1295283452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was a *bash shell script*. Used for configuring Linux 2.0. < 1295283459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not completely, but awesome! < 1295283471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (it's a horrific script -- it reads answers from /dev/tty, so you can't pipe less in) < 1295283474 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott < 1295283475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pipe yes in < 1295283478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why < 1295283483 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can i find the way to download pcc-libs via cvs < 1295283496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pcc.ludd.ltu.se/downloads/ < 1295283498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out the pcc-libs module < 1295283504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via cvs < 1295283508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, C-INTERCAL reads from /dev/tty < 1295283508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same pserver as listed there < 1295283513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1295283513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or used to, at least < 1295283524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the code logic completely lost track of stdin after a while < 1295283531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I got lost trying to figure out where it had got to < 1295283536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly still does < 1295283536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1295283545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the debugger, which makes sense reading from the tty anyway < 1295283556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for unknown reason it reassigned stdout and stdin a lot iirc < 1295283579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what if you want to use the debugger from inside an editor. Like gdb-mode for emacs or similar? < 1295283596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: M-x term < 1295283604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's far from optimal < 1295283608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1295283616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, doesn't Emacs simulate /dev/tty anyway in shell-mode? < 1295283617 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /usr/include//signal.h:349: error: cannot find 'stddef.h' < 1295283619 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is < 1295283622 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no stddef.h in there < 1295283624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just use a pty < 1295283628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, perhaps. I haven't checked how gdb mode work or such < 1295283632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: did you make install pcc-libs? < 1295283635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'm vaguely annoyed at the moment because the burglar alarm's gone off again < 1295283646 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that happens while compiling pcc-libs < 1295283650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at university? < 1295283652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: comint doesn't simulate /dev/tty, i don't _think_ < 1295283652 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses pcc to compile them < 1295283654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1295283657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: it shouldn't < 1295283657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1295283659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: it's meant to use gcc < 1295283662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you set CC=pcc or something < 1295283671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: failing that, "make clean; CC=gcc ./configure" < 1295283687 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, can't it self-host? < 1295283691 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott - still uses pcc < 1295283697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not when you don't have a working compiler yet :-P < 1295283702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcc-libs is the other half to pcc on Linux. < 1295283705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fair enough < 1295283718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you should have compiled pcc second, I don't know what to do; it should work with CC=gcc < 1295283722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't you did something really weird < 1295283727 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it does not have a check for CC anywhere < 1295283727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, though iirc gcc insists on self-hosting itself when compiling with any other compilser < 1295283729 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler* < 1295283731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: what? < 1295283737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure listens to CC. < 1295283740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*$CC < 1295283742 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried searching the entire ./configure to CC < 1295283744 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for CC < 1295283758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sigh < 1295283763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that autoconf configure? < 1295283766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1295283767 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1295283770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then wtf < 1295283772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it probably does some random shit. < 1295283775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than say CC directly. < 1295283780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it does that for two reasons: half of it's written in gcc extensions, and as a check (it compares gcc compiled with gcc compiled with gcc to gcc compiled with gcc compiled with $OTHER_COMPILER to verify they're identical) < 1295283802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's far too many recursions < 1295283804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1295283804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconf respects CC < 1295283805 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fixed it < 1295283812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: any fewer and you wouldn't expect the binaries to match < 1295283812 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed /usr/local/bin/pcc (will reinstall it) < 1295283822 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does check for pcc hardcoded, if it doesnt find it only then it uses gcc < 1295283823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gcc compiled with gcc compiled with X = gcc compiled with gcc compiled with gcc compiled with X < 1295283838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's two less recursions than yours < 1295283853 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it works < 1295283855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that only requires three compilations < 1295283866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what about stuff like debug info. Wouldn't you expect them to differ (different paths in the debug info)? < 1295283866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and since gcc only goes up to stage3, I *doubt* it does what you said < 1295283883 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs at roughly the same speed as GCC < 1295283892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that's what I said < 1295283894 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually a bit slower < 1295283894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the other way round < 1295283898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually he got the count right < 1295283901 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to recompile pcc-libs with pcc now < 1295283906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you used "with" to separate them both < 1295283920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no he used "to" < 1295283920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thus making your sentence completely unparsable < 1295283929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not looking at that sentence again, it hurts me < 1295283946 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, no difference < 1295283961 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with PCC-compiled libs it is faster < 1295283973 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still slower than GCC, though < 1295283979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: now do them all again with uClibc/dietlibc (compilers bootstrapped with same) < 1295283980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1295283990 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1295284003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well here I added markup, look if you want, if not then don't: "it compares (gcc [3] compiled with gcc [2] compiled with gcc [1]) to (gcc [2] compiled with gcc [1] compiled with $OTHER_COMPILER) to verify they're identical" < 1295284004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to patch both dietlibc and pcc to get them working together, but i can't give you them, they're on the other box. < 1295284011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right. < 1295284021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the number are the stage numbers < 1295284024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a lot easier if you have a C interpreter < 1295284024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers* < 1295284035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does any exist? < 1295284037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gcc compiled with gcc_interpreted = gcc compiled with gcc compiled with gcc_interpreted < 1295284040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *do, and I thnk so < 1295284042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think < 1295284047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cint or whatever < 1295284047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh nice < 1295284048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Ch < 1295284054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ch supports the 1999 ISO C Standard (C99) and C++ classes. It is superset of C with C++ classes. C99 major features such as complex numbers, variable length arrays (VLAs), IEEE-754 floating-point arithmetic and generic mathematical functions are supported. Wide characters in Addendum 1 for C90 is also supported. < 1295284056 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand < 1295284060 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCC wins in size < 1295284076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not really much easier, you just replaced "compiled with" with "interpreted with", then "interpreted with" with an underscore < 1295284080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: pcc/dietlibc can produce statically-linked executables of 4K in size < 1295284082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, complex numbers. heh nice < 1295284094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is one of the features I would expect to be unsupported < 1295284095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: (statically linking with glibc = 100K+ usually) < 1295284102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that hard to do, surely < 1295284120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shush :) < 1295284125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, pcc supports all of C89 and some of C99? < 1295284126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's certainly faster to do, probably < 1295284127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah but if you look at C99 compilers it is one of the last features to get done it seems. < 1295284130 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/b4P3QzZM < 1295284130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since gcc takes so long to compile < 1295284142 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current rank < 1295284144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (based on clang and gcc development history) < 1295284158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, possibly because few people use it? < 1295284165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1295284202 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/fJ2CVjjj <- added one more important info < 1295284227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most effort put into biased benchmarks evar < 1295284240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : since gcc takes so long to compile <-- wouldn't it take ages to interpret as well? < 1295284254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well you'd only hit the codepaths that are actually used to compile gcc. < 1295284256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not. < 1295284258 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bash adds a bit of overhead < 1295284259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it'd be very slow still :) < 1295284260 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i disable it too < 1295284268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1295284270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well a coverage analysis might be interesting here. < 1295284273 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the kernel adds some < 1295284274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash will just be sleeping while it runs < 1295284277 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should do it without a kernel < 1295284280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false comparison < 1295284282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I'm not going to try that on gcc bootstrap < 1295284331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/f3llk/dear_mojang_different_colored_wood_and_stairs/c1d2hz4?context=2 I approve < 1295284334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry ais523) < 1295284352 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's another question < 1295284361 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to switch ubuntu to use dietlibc and not glibc < 1295284371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's designed for that sort of customization < 1295284384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the purpose of Ubuntu isn't really extreme tinkering < 1295284400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does even gentoo let you do that switch easily?) < 1295284403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey even gentoo doesn't support that sort of stuff iirc < 1295284417 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to my biased benchmark, if you care about size you should use PCC (it has the performance of GCC but a far smaller size) < 1295284427 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you care about speed, use Clang (the files are not the biggest either) < 1295284442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: what? < 1295284446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you just install dietlibc in another prefix. < 1295284450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then compile with /opt/bin/diet gcc ... < 1295284460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: what optimization options are you using? < 1295284460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pcc's performance is lower than gcc. < 1295284465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and clang's runtime performance is often slower than gcc < 1295284469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it is always faster at compiling) < 1295284472 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: none! < 1295284480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, well duh. < 1295284480 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use -o bench-[whatever] -lm bench.c < 1295284488 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to run it with -O3 then < 1295284489 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1295284490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: oh, you're talking about compilation speed, not the speed of the resulting program? < 1295284495 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 no < 1295284498 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about the speed of the app < 1295284501 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try -O3 now, i guess < 1295284503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, -Os is often better for speed of the resulting program due to cache effects < 1295284511 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll use -Os then < 1295284513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, you need each -O then. -Os can be faster. And is certainly smaller < 1295284520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, so do them all, well not -O1 I guess < 1295284527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but -Os, -O2, -O3 < 1295284537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and equiv ones for other compilers < 1295284553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing unoptimized compiler output for speed is unlikely to be too helpful... < 1295284568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, you used no optimisation options? < 1295284570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faaaail < 1295284578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: for a benchmark like this you want -O2 < 1295284581 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott stop going all fail over me, that's really annoying < 1295284585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's performance-heavy < 1295284592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: well, in my defence, you are failing. very hard. < 1295284594 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not -Os -O2 -O3 < 1295284598 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott i am < 1295284599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1295284601 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should just tell me < 1295284606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1295284607 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not go LOL FAIL BWAHAHAHAHA WHAT A NOOB < 1295284608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : faaaail < 1295284618 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's how i see your actions every 30 seconds < 1295284642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do two torches right after each other mean "end of line" in your exploration-marking system? < 1295284647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to get back to spawn from (100,100) < 1295284651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've been following your torches < 1295284657 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCC seems to have no optimization options < 1295284657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are two right after each other and then none that I can see < 1295284658 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1295284665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: it has -O IIRC < 1295284682 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filesize does not change at all < 1295284685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh wait found the next one < 1295284687 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no. It depends on context < 1295284692 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it underground? < 1295284692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: i believe it is on by default. < 1295284695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, overground < 1295284702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what, then I have no idea :P < 1295284706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably marking something < 1295284707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... < 1295284708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look around < 1295284715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there ain't shit there but more torches < 1295284721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe there is some cool scenery around? < 1295284723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's vaguely pretty i guess < 1295284731 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment < 1295284737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which direction do you move < 1295284744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1295284749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: THOSE OVERRIDE EACH OTHER < 1295284754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is this one of the east or west trails? < 1295284760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know! < 1295284763 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott tell that to Vorpal < 1295284766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think I might be going the wrong way < 1295284769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: it was a list. < 1295284771 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but -Os, -O2, -O3 < 1295284773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at english. < 1295284774 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, the last one takes effect < 1295284775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i mention fail? < 1295284776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail fail fail < 1295284779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faaaaail fail fail < 1295284784 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, it was trying each one. Separately < 1295284785 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a song that will annoy everyoneeeeeee < 1295284788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite obvious < 1295284791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the comma there? < 1295284791 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, YOU FAAAIL < 1295284793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now try to read < 1295284797 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1295284798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment < 1295284802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you need to place more torches, cheapskate < 1295284808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, *WHERE* < 1295284808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais523: talking about real life obviously) < 1295284810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: here < 1295284816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't follow your trails :D < 1295284816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't get on atm < 1295284816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I don't mind < 1295284819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just surprised < 1295284825 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm on EDGE < 1295284833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will not minecraft on that < 1295284839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the connection is just too bad < 1295284842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklopol minecrafts on a 3g stick, i bet it's normally on edge < 1295284844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be hardcore! < 1295284845 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1295284852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's... slightly addictive < 1295284855 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i did them separately < 1295284861 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, normally you get 3G in scandinavia :P < 1295284868 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Os gives 1400000 KFlops (compared to 400000 pre-optimization) < 1295284883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-minecraft anyone? < 1295284883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway. tell me which direction compared to spawn < 1295284888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably common enough talk to get its own channel < 1295284895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, otherwise I suspect it is someone else who placed that < 1295284929 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :267) GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment < 1295284951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'll add him as an op. < 1295284958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and resign yourself? < 1295284973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you afraid I'll ban you and then you'll die or something? < 1295284996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There, given fizzie enough flags that he can remove my privileges if he wants, but I doubt he will. < 1295285001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I'm not "afraid". I'm just suspecting you will abuse the op at some point < 1295285006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like whenever we two disagree < 1295285008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To do _what_? < 1295285021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If fizzie has ops he can trivially remove any ban I place. < 1295285041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kickban probably. One way to resolve this would be to make me op as well. I wouldn't abuse it (I'm not you) < 1295285060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr YOU'RE EVIL AND IMMATURE, SO OP ME NOW!!!!!!!!! < 1295285077 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1295285077 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no :P < 1295285095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I do not trust you to be a balanced person. < 1295285095 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm now re-benchmarking every compiler (except tcc which lacks optimization options) < 1295285100 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for -Os, -O3 and -O2 separately < 1295285114 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not every compiler has -Os, and clang has more than -O3 iirc < 1295285118 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, read the docs < 1295285120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for details < 1295285127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523, did you know that I'm unbalanced < 1295285134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why are you pinging me with that, I'm not surprised at all < 1295285139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in what sense? < 1295285141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err < 1295285144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I dunno, ask Vorpal < 1295285144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mistap < 1295285146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab* < 1295285147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in the winning an insult match sense < 1295285149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, ^ < 1295285161 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1295285165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not really. I'm just describing him < 1295285169 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is i won't do a separate benchmark for 1 compiler < 1295285192 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will later organize the average KFlops results into an array < 1295285195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and compare yourself to ais523. Who of you is least likely to shout? Or get visibly angry? < 1295285201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you realise that for a very long time, the vast majority of immaturity in this channel has come from you saying stupid shit and then justifying it based on me being immature? < 1295285207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *Which of you < 1295285209 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh? < 1295285212 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that it was me < 1295285213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I disagree. < 1295285215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah indeed < 1295285229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :selecting from a list is always which, regardless of what the list contents are < 1295285230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please tell vorpal to shut up, he doesn't listen to me... < 1295285240 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/G6k41v7i < 1295285242 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current progress < 1295285249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1295285270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I listen to you when you say sensible things. < 1295285277 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please tell elliott to try to be more balanced < 1295285279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vorpal: this argument's unlikely to be productive in any case < 1295285285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1295285289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so, question, "revoke your ops right now because you're an unbalanced individual" is sensible? < 1295285291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's not much point in continuing it < 1295285307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just like arguments for the sake of arguing, I suppose < 1295285311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be fun to watch sometimes < 1295285373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just trying to get the off-topic Minecraft stuff in another channel to free up #esoteric some more, and Vorpal is refusing to use it unless I revoke my op privileges, because I'm "unbalanced" and I will kickban him or something, despite the fact that fizzie is also an op. While undoubtedly he's going to come back with his own version of events in reply to you like it's some sort of challenge to get ais to take your side, I really just < 1295285373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : want him to admit that he's a fuckface for saying that. < 1295285382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it is sensible to carefully suggest handing over that channel to fizzie. If that is what you meant. < 1295285422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you not quite grasp how insulting what you said was? < 1295285431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you just not care? < 1295285450 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, perhaps we put different weights on the word "unbalanced"? < 1295285451 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP. < 1295285465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I ask again to compare yourself to ais. < 1295285468 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't stop immediately i will quit this channel and stop giving elliott any reason to bother/troll/anger you < 1295285476 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should help < 1295285479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to what he was saying < 1295285482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: that's really just incentive for me to keep going, isn't it... < 1295285490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, again: Compare yourself to ais523. Which of you is least likely to shout? Or get visibly angry? < 1295285491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trying to win anything, I just want an apology from Vorpal. < 1295285504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that I never get visibly angry is not really evidence of anything < 1295285506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not on IRC < 1295285511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do get angry from time ot time < 1295285517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*time to time < 1295285522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly in RL < 1295285532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, indeed, but the question is if you are in control of the anger or if you react like elliott. < 1295285534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I come on here, furious at events in RL, and state that I'm angry because people couldn't tell otherwise < 1295285547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because when RL makes me angry, it isn't #esoteric's fault) < 1295285553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, probably) < 1295285558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even when you are angry, you do seem a rather calm. < 1295285563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my point < 1295285565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, I'm an unstable wreck of an individual who kickbans people based on random whims and then immediately deops everyone else so that nobody can undo my injustice, and I shouldn't be allowed in polite society. < 1295285568 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for fizzie < 1295285575 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott - if you say you're so < 1295285576 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are < 1295285578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having just come above surface from a fucking year of people treating me like I'm insane: < 1295285580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FUCK YOU. < 1295285583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now that is a strawman. < 1295285584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: looking calm and being calm are different things < 1295285588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are on ignore, and are never coming off. < 1295285590 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1295285597 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELLIOTT TURNED ON MADNESS MODE < 1295285598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I never said "wreck" < 1295285602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Also you. < 1295285605 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1295285607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's unlikely to help... < 1295285613 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELLIOTT IS GOING MORE MADNESS MODE < 1295285614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you've been missing the point for the past 10 minutes < 1295285621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. And I think this actually proved my point. < 1295285625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his reaction to this. < 1295285666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, annoyed at my suggestion: of course. But he overreacted wildly. < 1295285692 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/aPTureza < 1295285695 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too tired to do any more < 1295285707 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal - elliott behaves like me 3 years ago < 1295285709 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read: when i was 10 or 11 < 1295285714 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember me from back then? < 1295285716 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was an annoyance < 1295285757 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, well, to be honest, you still are annoying to some degree. Though quite a bit less than before. < 1295285765 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah < 1295285769 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: 3 minutes ago < 1295285773 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i went "lol madness mode" < 1295285782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1295285784 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my frequent pasting of things which are useless < 1295285790 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the benchmark status < 1295285830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and... not reading those comma :P < 1295285836 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is there < 1295285846 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, not reading fully before asking < 1295285849 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also saying stupid things < 1295285859 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because of lack of knowledge mostly, but still) < 1295285871 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i miss anything? < 1295286006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's all today iirc < 1295286014 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1295286301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros, you really need to do something about your connection < 1295286441 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@86.241.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295286945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*chirp* *a* *dirp* < 1295287049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Elliott/Vorpal Fallout, Channel Dies | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | elliott denies claim of wheat-based parentage but denies banning accusers. More at 11. < 1295287069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Elliott/Vorpal Fallout, Channel Dies | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | elliott denies claim of wheat-based parentage but also denies banning accusers. More at 11. < 1295287069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1295287079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY < 1295287094 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes me remember times < 1295287097 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was editing the topic < 1295287098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE IS _REALLY_ GRUMPY < 1295287101 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ehird kept changing it back < 1295287103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not grumpy? < 1295287120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why did you censor the topic then < 1295287152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's only going to make things more off-topic and stupid? < 1295287159 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295287161 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wants a free google adwords promotional coupon code < 1295287175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: no thanks < 1295287207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SOMEONE IS _REALLY_ GRUMPY <-- that is an understatement :) < 1295287233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you also removed the denial of your wheat-based parentage, so i'll assume that means you've finally admitted it < 1295287237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1295287241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am kin of Weetabix. < 1295287593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this is the year of Duke Nukem Forever's announced release. < 1295287609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So weird... < 1295287631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah < 1295287650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, and last year we made first contact! oh wait... < 1295287709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway it's better than back in '84 when we were under that oppressive dictatorship < 1295287723 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as in, "the people making it have stated in no uncertain terms that it is going to be released in the second quarter of the year" < 1295287776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the signs of the end times are here < 1295287918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and Perl 6 is basically complete too, it's usable right now < 1295287944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and duke nukem forever is written in it! < 1295287952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it runs on HURD! < 1295287958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, Hurd < 1295287959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why it's taken so long to release, they had to wait for the language to exist first < 1295287964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew I was missing one, just couldn't remember what it was < 1295287991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all formally verified with Epigram 2! < 1295288061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would formally verifying a computer game even mean? < 1295288185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: making sure it's FUN < 1295288187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with MATHEMATICS < 1295288193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who disagrees is obviously irrational < 1295288196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been PROVEN! < 1295288270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I didn't remove the "bad things might happen if you make it resizable" when I pushed the "handle resize events" change, since I'm not entirely sure it actually works. < 1295288294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295288321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295288390 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm playing with DrScheme because i like colorful pictures < 1295288391 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1295288407 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stepping through s-exps in runtime < 1295288409 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arrows < 1295288412 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee < 1295288816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295288841 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1295288842 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1295288953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1295288962 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1295289039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how did you find that i did stuff with factor, anyway? < 1295289051 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1295289134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how about "looking at your Github account"? < 1295289181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that would indeed work. < 1295289186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black magicke. < 1295289210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My commit had a last-minute typo, hehe... quite embarrassing when slava told me it was wrong just from looking at it. < 1295289271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my gitorious login still has that cyclexa thing on it < 1295289279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with intercal, and nethack-tas-tools < 1295289286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1295289296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, as far as i can tell, github's TOS was redone < 1295289300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now is perfectly benign < 1295289302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as TOSes go < 1295289308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm reasonably active on both gitorious and patch-tag now < 1295289316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch-tag? haha < 1295289321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but patch-tag is basically dead afaik < 1295289327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcsden less so < 1295289348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares if it's basically dead, it hosts repos < 1295289365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really understood the repo-host-as-a-social-network thing < 1295289369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo either hates or loves darcsden because it's ran by the person who does atomo < 1295289376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: github just uses the social language as marketing < 1295289382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's really a "collaborative network" < 1295289393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :activity on the site as a whole doesn't matter, even if you were the site's only user it wouldn't matter as long as you can push and other people can pull < 1295289400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the many-forks-that-get-merged-into-one model is good for a lot of projects < 1295289402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can add other people to push < 1295289408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and things like pull requests _are_ important for that < 1295289412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which plain git lacks < 1295289420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, but why can't people just register on the site to add one? < 1295289430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: plenty of people just have github repos as a mirror of git < 1295289434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, do these sites let you add a pull request from unrelated sites? < 1295289438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, they should < 1295289439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, yes, it could do with more decentralisation, but that isn't much of a viable business model < 1295289442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, because there's no protocol for it < 1295289451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git://? http://? < 1295289457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't know what a pull request is < 1295289464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it only includes certain commits < 1295289475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe < 1295289477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a branch, then, containing only those commits? < 1295289483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not saying this is how it should be, just that github is more useful than plain git for a certain model of development < 1295289504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I agree that it might be, but I'm saying that the reasons why it is are easily genericisable < 1295289515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but they haven't been :) < 1295289539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: darcs solves this by using email < 1295289543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which works quite well < 1295289543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, see /msg < 1295289559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you have opinions on Google removing H.264 support from