< 1295308809 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Go on. < 1295308866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have keywords? How many of such could not be redone by the user in @lang in such a way as to look syntactically similar? < 1295309000 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I need to ask a question before I answer that. < 1295309011 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *Is that actually a major factor in your opinion of a language.* < 1295309015 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-198-168.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295309066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your answer should be independent of my answer, unless you make something up to either push me towards or, more likely, away from @lang < 1295309078 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I won't, but I do want an answer from you first. < 1295309088 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herobrine: how much of @lang is known? < 1295309096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... nice to have syntactic simplicity < 1295309107 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keywords are the opposite of simplicity < 1295309110 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Enough. < 1295309121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, which is why I prefer 0 < 1295309132 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It has syntax, yes. More than 0 keywords. < 1295309140 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 keywords is not a virtue, it aids nothing of value. < 1295309142 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough for what?? < 1295309151 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: For me to give a few concrete answers :) < 1295309194 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But yes the syntax is pretty extensible. < 1295309198 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not arbitrarily. < 1295309205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1295309227 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't have random macros that look like function calls, though. < 1295309244 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Almost everything can be done as a function call, but macros are always distinguishable from function calls without context.) < 1295309258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1295309259 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write proofs in it < 1295309281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jfm3.org/phosphorous.pdf < 1295309416 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: dunno :D < 1295309425 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Let me guess, you saw that and think it's the best idea ever. < 1295309457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obviously a joke < 1295309519 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: @lang is kind of like Ur but BETTER < 1295309524 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THAT EXPLICIT ENOUGH < 1295309547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ur reference gives me a headache, and so does the Ur/Web tutorial < 1295309574 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A _headache_? How??? < 1295309613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herobrine, not literally < 1295309619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean I don't understand it < 1295309634 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Well if you don't understand Ur you'll never understand @lang, which is a great reason to keep asking questions. < 1295309731 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: try making something with Ur, that will probably be easier < 1295309790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1295309818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the functional-ness of Ur/Web means readable URLs are just natural? < 1295309905 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think there's a connection between those two things < 1295310021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just crashed the Ur demo < 1295310031 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1295310035 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should not happen < 1295310039 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I doubt that < 1295310045 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have no idea how you relate functional-ness and readable URLs. < 1295310047 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Idea. < 1295310048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was working, and now it's not < 1295310057 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have crashed the server < 1295310061 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That apparently sometimes happens < 1295310072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant < 1295310127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I uploaded a .WAgame file < 1295310141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it just have rejected it? < 1295310177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function always returns the same thing -> link to a function -> URL contains function's name and arguments < 1295310677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone called Newspeak a farce < 1295310679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION angers
< 1295310700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4112 < 1295310738 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: XChat help fail: " Usage: NOTICE , sends a notice. Notices are a type of message that should be auto reacted to" < 1295310766 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: He also called Oberon and Common Lisp farce. You are perhaps missing some humour. < 1295310784 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Clearly you cannot even read the summary: 'Object-Orientation is now over forty years old. In that time, Object-Oriented programming has moved from a Scandinavian cult to a world-wide standard. In this talk I’ll revisit the essential principles — myths — of object-orientation, and discuss their role in the evolution of languages from SIMULA to Smalltalk to C++ to Java and beyond. Only by keeping the object-oriented faith can we ensu < 1295310784 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re full-spectrum object-oriented dominance for the next forty years in the project for a new object-oriented century!" < 1295310914 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you /notice #esoteric test for me? < 1295311004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should go learn Sel < 1295311005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self < 1295311029 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, ask more @lang questions. < 1295311166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self doesn't run on Windows < 1295311290 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is irrelevant. < 1295311298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language did I see where every object has a URI? Or something referencing that idea? Or some variation thereof? < 1295311309 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a terrible idea. < 1295311315 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that terrible < 1295311332 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well, depends how it's executed. < 1295311334 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be useful in a specific circumstance < 1295311444 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1295311450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I saw something somewhere using that idea < 1295311456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the life of me, I can't find it < 1295311471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not referring to Virtuality or whatever that thing's called < 1295311480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I might be confusing what I'm thinking of with that < 1295311525 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh, looks like I have to ask the owner of this to degroup it. < 1295311530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://interreality.org/ <==not what I was thinking of < 1295311532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1295311567 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This nick. < 1295311578 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Here's a language to learn. http://www.enchiladacode.nl/ < 1295311592 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. < 1295311593 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1295311596 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its author was in here a while ago. < 1295311600 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd seen it before. < 1295311646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my mind is not just making shit up now < 1295311648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad to hear it < 1295311652 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1295311666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no clue if wwhat I was imagining even existed. I could swear it did, but < 1295311673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This inability to find the bloody thing < 1295311675 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How do you know it does? < 1295311720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herobrine, you're reinforcing my perception that it exists < 1295311725 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1295311732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Its author was in here a while ago. < 1295311732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But I'd seen it before. < 1295311741 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of enchilada... < 1295311744 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.enchiladacode.nl/ < 1295311784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme go kill Chrome < 1295311813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is a Java applet loading? < 1295311837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1295311976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Information cannot be destroyed." < 1295311983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will be interesting < 1295311994 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is one of the oddest languages I know of. < 1295312015 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1295312023 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't it be destroyed < 1295312066 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g229030185.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1295312084 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295312126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: explain this isn't a problem < 1295312140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(referring to the size of the hashes, not to anything j-invariant said) < 1295312157 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably in response to me and cpressey being uneasy about it in here to him. :) < 1295312207 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tl;dr we care about the fact that theoretically, the language is completely broken from the start; he cares about the fact that in practice, it will never break, and the fact that if you just accept the (impossible) uniqueness of SHA-512, there is no theoretical problem with the language.) < 1295312209 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Different concerns.) < 1295312217 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, his is actually SHA-1. < 1295312221 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit "yikes" but whatever... < 1295312226 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even @ assigns a hash to every object. < 1295312234 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295312248 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The current version is written in Scala and compiled against the JVM 1.5. Other (but now defunct) implementations include Java, Factor and Haskell implementations." < 1295312259 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, he has Sgeochondria. < 1295312273 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The state of being irrationally addicted to languages.) < 1295312355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But unlike me, he's actually DONE stuff in a variety of languages < 1295312390 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295312477 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The most general rule is the equational rule that holds for all A, B and X that are Enchilada expressions: < 1295312477 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A X == B X <=> A == B" < 1295312479 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What craziness. :) < 1295312501 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe it's just phrased wrong. < 1295312504 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, has to be. Probably. < 1295312508 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise "0 *" wouldn't work. < 1295312545 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1295312551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe he's deluded < 1295312572 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Rather quick to jump to conclusions, aren't we. < 1295312578 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's definitely just stated wrong. < 1295312582 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be: < 1295312591 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"forall A B, (forall X, A X == B X) <=> A == B" < 1295312609 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else he defines == strangely. < 1295312636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herobrine, huh? < 1295312659 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (forall x y, (forall f, f(x) = f(y)) <-> x = y) is a law of logic. < 1295312664 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enchilada is postfix. < 1295312699 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Stevan Apter and Sjoerd Visscher helped with Enchilada. < 1295313018 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esoteric programming languages | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1295313023 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Making us presentable for a possible visitor...) < 1295313047 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The author of this nick is asking about the bot, long story. < 1295313104 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :minecraft channel < 1295313115 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1295313118 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esoteric programming languages | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1295313167 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1295313195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like homoiconic languages < 1295313275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's "\n" is defined in some compilers as "\n"? < 1295313279 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1295313280 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1295313566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Herobrine < 1295313581 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1295313582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of the infamous features of the standard Unix C compiler (I don't know if it is true of gcc) was that the definitions for the characters like \n were not explicit. When you got to the part of the compiler that defined them, they were defined in terms of themselves. Somewhere in time there had to have been a compiler that gave the numeric values of these characters, but it had been rewritten to be just a tiny bit metacircular." < 1295313609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You mean *'\n' < 1295313614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it'd just be: < 1295313623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (char == '\'') { < 1295313628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char = next(); < 1295313630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch (char) { < 1295313638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 'n': realchar = '\n'; break; < 1295313643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 't': realchar = '\t'; break; < 1295313643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1295313656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So whatever the compiler that's compiling the C compiler thinks \n is, gets used as the value. < 1295313666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc is probably far too anal for this and uses 10 and the like to make SURE the values are right. < 1295313730 0 :updog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295313750 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1295314671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: To explain the driver thing: with @, code in @lang can do anything it wants. < 1295314687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: For instance, you can easily write a program that overwrites the entire contents of memory, and then sends garbage data to every IO port on the system. < 1295314696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What stops you is the security model. < 1295314714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even drivers don't get access to all the RAM; they'll be given precisely the regions they need to communicate with some memory-mapped hardware device. < 1295314725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's for direct access; they can use more memory by allocating things, of course.) < 1295314744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the OS know what regions the driver needsA? < 1295314748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*needs? < 1295314759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The driver tells it. < 1295314773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you're thinking "but what if it lies?" -- ever checked any of your drivers lately? They can access EVERYTHING.) < 1295314799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Of course, the user has to allow it to access such memory. < 1295314831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, and if @ can query the system as to, say, what ports are assigned to which devices, or the like, then it can automatically grant permission for those; any requests for more will be considered suspicious. < 1295314843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here's another language for you. http://will.thimbleby.net/misc/ < 1295314862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maps! < 1295314873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! Just like Enchilada! Oh joy! < 1295314873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds Lua-like < 1295314882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it just like Enchilada? < 1295314889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's similar-ish. < 1295314892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not Lua-like at all. < 1295314894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua isn't homoiconic. < 1295314898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In MISC, all your code is maps. < 1295314962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike prefix notation. Not strongly enough to stop me learning MISC < 1295314978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You realise that almost all your programs consist of prefix notation... < 1295314984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arithmetic is honestly a minor special case :-P < 1295314996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so OOP turns it on its head a little, but really it just turns (f x y z) into (x f y z). < 1295315028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk-like languages turn it into something like (x f y f z) < 1295315056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well. < 1295315060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BTW, here's Herobrine's code: < 1295315065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log http://sprunge.us/SDKY < 1295315071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :httpserv http://sprunge.us/KHVi < 1295315083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I run the HTTP server as root to use port 80, which is laughable but I'm lazy.) < 1295315110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't written that much code in a very, very long time < 1295315135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 45-minute hack job. (log is a 5 minute hack job, and httpserv got out of control.) < 1295315164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, you can link to individual lines in a log! < 1295315165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So useful! < 1295315240 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295315301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Gah, I feel like making my own little homoiconic language, and blame you. < 1295315318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enchilada-sequences and MISC-maps are taken, maybe I'll base mine on sets. < 1295315409 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295315506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants MISC to take over the world
< 1295315507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1295315508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dies
< 1295315557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Seriously? < 1295315570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I did not actually die. < 1295315613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: seriously want it to take over the world? < 1295315638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see something like it in wider use perhaps. Maybe. < 1295315661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't gone through the tutorial yet < 1295315664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on 8 < 1295315707 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1295315726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must say I am appreciative of the lack of special forms < 1295315752 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMBDA? < 1295315757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1295315764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda is just quoted data :P < 1295315772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, this is totally going to be ridiculous based on set theory. < 1295315788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I'll use Wiener's or Kuratowski's ordered pair definition. < 1295315794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiener's is uglier but lets me avoid duplicating data. < 1295315800 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm which are which < 1295315804 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I remember < 1295315816 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people still use set theory :/ < 1295315819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordered_pair#Wiener's_definition < 1295315828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i'm not going to use set theory, I'm amusing myself by creating the language: < 1295315845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enchilada : sequences :: MISC : associative maps :: my language : sets < 1295315851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be HILARIOUSLY SILLY < 1295315853 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I didn't mean you < 1295315856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1295315859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just explaining what i'm doing < 1295315866 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know hwy people don't use category theory < 1295315881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, Wiener's doesn't quite work I don't think...possibly < 1295315886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it does < 1295315894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you extend Kuratowski to longer tuples? < 1295315900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{a}, {a, b}, {a, b, c}}? < 1295315903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think so < 1295315905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's go with that < 1295315938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, so (a) = {{a}} < 1295315973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Tutorial: Ctrl-C did not in fact stop evaluation < 1295315994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1295315996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, b)reverse := {{b}, {a, b}}; < 1295315996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, b)short := {a, {a, b}}; < 1295315996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, b)01 := {{0,a}, {1, b}}. < 1295316000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that 01 one work? < 1295316004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a=1 and b=0 < 1295316008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's just {{0,1}} < 1295316010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1295316016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can extract it from that < 1295316020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems ugly < 1295316102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i need some weird syntax to succeed < 1295316103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1295316116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll define "a => b" to be "[a; b]" < 1295316253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: {0=>false; x=>true} --> {[0; false]; [x; true]} --> { {{0}; {0; false}}; {{x}; {x; true}} } --> {{{{}}; {{}; false}}; {{x}; {x; true}}} --> {{{{}}; {{}; {}}}; {{x}; {x; {{}}}}} --> {{{{}}}; {{x}; {x; {{}}}}} < 1295316261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so {{{{}}}; {{x}; {x; {{}}}}} is the function "is not zero" < 1295316264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you like this language it is homoiconic < 1295316268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a set < 1295316322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: can i have a yes < 1295316386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION headaches
< 1295316406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how can you say that, it is the most beautiful < 1295316418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably i should figure out a way to make the symbolic expression "x" a variable < 1295316462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: best language i have here?? < 1295316464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer is yes btw < 1295316490 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun :P < 1295316558 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Daemon escaped from pentagram < 1295316628 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1295316891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lol sets are the worst < 1295316967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: LOVE MISC YET? < 1295317015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Prefix notation might not be to your taste. Luckily writing a standard math parser is simple." < 1295317019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see someone develop a ... more used language based off of it, although without scrapping the purity. The thing is, I don't see what's wrong with taking MISC as it is and just .. more libraries, etc. < 1295317019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, you're ACCOUNTED FOR < 1295317030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More real-world use < 1295317031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that requires forking the language...why? < 1295317036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it doesn't < 1295317040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This shit gets no real-world use because nobody cares, Sgeo. < 1295317064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OK, let me try and use an analogy only a YouTube user could understand. Put yourself in the mind of a YouTube user momentarily. < 1295317089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "I'd like to see someone make a ... more popular album based off of Justin Bieber's, although without scrapping the talent. Just ... more real world." < 1295317099 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295317100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct response: "Quality > popularity." < 1295317112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incorrect response: "I wish [BAND] would take over the world instead of Justin Bieber!!!!!!!!!" < 1295317168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you... understanding? < 1295317208 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a ... more used language" < 1295317211 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295317218 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want Ruby on Rails < 1295317220 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or PHP < 1295317222 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Ur. < 1295317228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: he's talking about MISC now. < 1295317240 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1295317246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I'm attempting to explain that aiming for popularity gets you mediocrity. < 1295317259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You know the people in your course? < 1295317270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*They, or people only marginally better than them, are MOST PROGRAMMERS.* < 1295317276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about at least Haskell-like popular < 1295317294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a reasonable goal? < 1295317296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set of people who actually use Haskell in actual products or software like checking out niche langs too. < 1295317308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people who claim to be a fan of Haskell ostensibly read a tutorial but have never actually written a program longer than 10 lines. < 1295317314 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not really, Haskell is incredibly popular < 1295317327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um, I might fall in that set < 1295317336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that BF interp I guess < 1295317343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why do you care so much about popularity? Would you rather have created a pile of shit that the whole world loves, or a beautiful gem that only a handful see? < 1295317354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to just read a lot of tutorials < 1295317367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a good language would make everyone's lives easier < 1295317387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wouldn't. < 1295317396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% of programmers are SHIT. They can fuck up _any_ language. < 1295317404 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trick is to make something good that people like < 1295317409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And until you significantly improve the whole corporate structure and hiring process, and the whole CS education system, that will never change. < 1295317420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting good programmers to like something is a real achievement. < 1295317424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting bad programmers to like something is a failure. < 1295317428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And helps nobody. < 1295317444 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1295317448 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28 < elliott> Getting bad programmers to like something is a failure. < 1295317450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to admit, I do see some things unlikable about MISC < 1295317450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In fact, a good language getting too popular with the majority of -- bad -- programmers will dilute it, as they pollute the ecosystem with their bad practices. < 1295317450 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add that as a quote please < 1295317466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: `addquote Getting bad programmers to like something is a failure. < 1295317471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you run it or it'll log it as me adding my own quote :> < 1295317542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there could exist a language in which there was no bad practices
< 1295317547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lol < 1295317551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All things that could be bad practice are not doable < 1295317559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it's called Omega. < 1295317561 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Getting bad programmers to like something is a failure. < 1295317564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Singularity is the only compiler. < 1295317567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It rejects your code if it's bad. < 1295317576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the _only_ way that will _ever_ happen. < 1295317576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1295317579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one language satisfying that. < 1295317582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9+. < 1295317588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, there are no good practices either. < 1295317609 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :268) Getting bad programmers to like something is a failure. < 1295317613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4088 ? < 1295317657 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's eyes glaze over
< 1295317668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DIDN'T MEAN THAT OMEGA GOD DAMMIT < 1295317680 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that omega LOL < 1295317695 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: DOesn't that omega suck? or was it made before Agda? < 1295317709 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I guess it is okay if it was a precursor to agda < 1295317729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall strings S: There exists a language named S < 1295317750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: well you realise that dependent types come with their disadvantages... < 1295317755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Omegamega, you never have to write long proofs :P < 1295317908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: summary from comments: "AFAIU, the point of Omega is to keep the standard FP model, and only augment it with some more or less modest extensions, whereas Epigram requires a very different programming model." < 1295317979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love lambda-the-ultimate < 1295317984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere should be lambda-the-ultimate < 1295318240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do you agree < 1295318258 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liek ltu as well < 1295318314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i have figured out the language that will seize your heart < 1295318335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: prototype-based, homoiconic, immutable, everything-is-a-map, higher order language with no builtins < 1295318348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and also a complicated module system < 1295318369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason I expressed interest in Seph's immutable stuff is that you seem convinced that mutability is evil < 1295318373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally don't care < 1295318375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IF I MAKE IT WILL YOU BE HAPPY AND STOP LOOKING FOR ANOTHER LANGUAGE < 1295318396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1295318431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's a no, but it sounds interesting enough that I will anyway. < 1295318436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO MY LOGREADING SELF: ^^^^ DO THAT < 1295318442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You get to remind me if I don't logread. < 1295318446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1295318479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If I add "symbolic" to the features pile will you be even happier? < 1295318493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure what you mean by that < 1295318546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: As in, x+x is valid code that just sits there, and you can replace x by 2 as an operation and it'll turn into 4. < 1295318559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting... < 1295318592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enchilada has that. < 1295318597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, I forgot, every object has a URI. < 1295318624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have URNs based on their hash, and you publish modules by putting them at a URL, which you can then use as an object inside the interpreter. < 1295318625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't care so much about that, as I care about finding what system put me in mind of that < 1295318645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm just going to pack in every possible feature, because I want to make sure you never go looking for another language. < 1295318687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, I forgot, it'll have hotswapping too. < 1295318688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck packing in both static and dynamic typing < 1295318690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What else do you like? < 1295318701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, clearly I'll just have OPTIONAL static typing. < 1295318742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: WHAT ELSE < 1295318767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to take over the world < 1295318774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1295318798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You're in charge of that. < 1295318804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, and I'll help you create an Active Worlds binding. < 1295318816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then maybe you will stop talking about languages. Forever! < 1295318818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight, bitches! < 1295318820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295319355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" is built on top of the CPython VM, compiling to Python bytecode." < 1295319361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Python ISN'T safe < 1295319389 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new knuth book is out I heard < 1295319398 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Art of Computer Programming, Volume 4A < 1295319455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott probably hates Logi < 1295319457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logix < 1295319475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Logix is no longer under development, and the original author, Tom Locke, has moved on to other projects." < 1295319486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, new requirement: Development is not allowed to cease. < 1295319518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. First volume in *38 years*. < 1295319546 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, exactlty < 1295319633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the current rate, immortality will need to be invented for Knuth to finish. < 1295319725 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-cs-staff.stanford.edu/~uno/news.html < 1295320157 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_____O < 1295320170 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear I couuld yhear the minecraft song playing... but I don't have minecraft open < 1295320173 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1295320193 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, you are forever lost\ < 1295320475 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im such an idiot < 1295320485 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do I stay up until 3 am I have ot get up early < 1295320637 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295320735 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295321096 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it so friggin' difficult to set up a webdav subversion server X_X < 1295321115 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N. Davidson (pers. comm., Sept. 7, 2004) found < 1295321115 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e approx 163^(32/163), < 1295321123 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good to 6 digits. < 1295321127 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this AT ALL notable < 1295321131 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? who cares! < 1295321152 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that seems weird because normally svn is pretty good < 1295321165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no. < 1295321188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subversion is pretty mediocre, but as server-client VCS go, it's tolerable. < 1295321199 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tolerable. that's the right word < 1295321273 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1295321281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This looks interesting < 1295321282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://boom.cs.berkeley.edu/ < 1295321421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a web framework < 1295321441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The objects as URI thing that I saw recently was some ... document describing a web framework < 1295321445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some text, anyway < 1295321837 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295321937 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295321976 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally got it working. svn sucks X_X < 1295322159 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, when you want a repository for nothing but friggin' enormous files ... yeah, SVN :P < 1295322169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(friggin' enormous /binary/ files) < 1295322233 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Daemon escaped from pentagram < 1295322300 0 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1295323036 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295323136 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295323146 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1295323301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ::=> is a WONDERFUL operator for something described as _bidirectional_ < 1295323312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1295323319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://coherence-lang.org/EmergingLangs.pdf < 1295324157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://subtextual.org/subtext2.html I get a http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooIncompetentToOperateABlanket feel from the first few minutes < 1295324470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVN is best described as "CVS but better". < 1295324491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't to say it's *good*. < 1295324783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to see a good dataflow language
< 1295325023 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: isn't that their mission statement? < 1295325031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Probably. < 1295326486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex is in the Nimrod channel < 1295326591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Whole program dead code elimination: Only used functions are included in the executable." < 1295326592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh.... < 1295326604 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1295326656 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with trimming out functions that can't possibly be called? < 1295326748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to take this opportunity to mock Sony.
< 1295326758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what encryption scheme the PSP uses? < 1295326760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on, guess. < 1295326778 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wep < 1295326784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1295326794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rot13 < 1295326802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Private key encryption, with the key actually part of the CPU's mask. < 1295326809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitwhat < 1295326828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, normally this would be really *hard* to break, what with electron scanning microscopes being a rarity. < 1295326841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, they also stuck a PSP emulator into the PS3. < 1295326855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And said emulator handles encryption just the same as the PSP. < 1295326857 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROFFFFFFFFFFFL < 1295326873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now that the PS3 is hacked, the PSP is hacked and even *more* impossible to fix than the PS3. < 1295326875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, iagoldbe would love this < 1295326924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically hacked to the same extent the Dreamcast is now. < 1295326930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1295327150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Case is insignificant in Nimrod and even underscores are ignored: This_is_an_identifier and ThisIsAnIdentifier are the same identifier. This feature enables you to use other people's code without bothering about a naming convention that conflicts with yours. It also frees you from remembering the exact spelling of an identifier (was it parseURL or parseUrl or parse_URL?)." < 1295327157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1295327168 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, no wonder comex is insane < 1295327172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to quote what someone said in #nimrod but I haven't gotten a response < 1295327263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indenting a comment wrong is a syntax error < 1295327293 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295327311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot to laugh about, but I still want to be intrigued by this language < 1295327325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposed to compile nicely, has Python-like syntax, and Lisp-like macros < 1295327328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1295327403 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that is a terrible idea...i can understand disallowing variables that are too similar in that way by autocorrecting them to the declared form in the IDE...but making the parser not discriminate at all? i hope that the IDE at least matches all identifiers no matter how you format it... < 1295327429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the name for the attack on a compiler where you backdoor it < 1295327431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect something attack? < 1295327454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Whole program dead code elimination: Only used functions are included in the executable." < 1295327454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assume that's not making the claim that every single function that will never be called is always removed < 1295327454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it? < 1295327454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: it is < 1295327461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, Trusting Trust < 1295327465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1295327470 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1295327554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://force7.de/nimrod/tut1.html < 1295327713 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: lawl. i suspect it just means that every function that they can prove will never be called is removed, in fact, i suspect it means that every function that doesn't actually get called anywhere in the code is removed as that is the laziest sort of heuristic to implement. < 1295327899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe I should NOT treat that person like an idiot < 1295327935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it became clear what I was getting at, ... actually, he didn't know what I was getting at, because my examples weren't really clear violations < 1295328045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every variable, procedure, etc. needs to be declared before it can be used. (The reason for this is compilation efficiency.) " < 1295328083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's better than the situation in Python! (Nimrod has forward declarations) < 1295328097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly, Python has an excuse. It's not a compiled language < 1295328127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I know that C and C++ do the same thing. That doesn't make it good < 1295328215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thus it cannot represent an UTF-8 character, but a part of it. The reason for this is efficiency: for the overwhelming majority of use-cases, the resulting programs will still handle UTF-8 properly as UTF-8 was specially designed for this." < 1295328217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you. < 1295328468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to like this language < 1295328471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really do < 1295328844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm subconsciously taking the comment thing as a slur against the language, when really it's not < 1295329070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: /ignore elliott < 1295329073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then attempt to use it < 1295329083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1295329091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you enjoy it and find it useful < 1295329099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has limited bearing over whether or not I end up actually using a language < 1295329100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then go for it < 1295329107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The answer is, I usually don't) < 1295329107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good < 1295329136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does have a significant bearing over whether I look at it longingly or turn away a bit too abruptly < 1295329153 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1295329927 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: XChat help fail: " Usage: NOTICE , sends a notice. Notices are a type of message that should be auto reacted to" <-- XD < 1295329994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314's learning about Atomo? < 1295330034 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, arguing over some language details < 1295330106 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been nitpicking ever since I found out about the language :p < 1295330535 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys, opinion: which compiled language has the most pleasant syntax? < 1295330741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Joule Unlimited claims to have created cheap, renewable hydrocarbons. Such as gasoline. < 1295330762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requiring little more than sunlight and CO₂ to function... < 1295330805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "cheap", I mean "approx. the equivalent of $30/barrel crude oil." < 1295330891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(crude oil is currently trading at $90/barrel) < 1295330977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1295330982 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1295330993 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like a bad idea < 1295331017 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Haskell by far < 1295331018 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they can harvest thr CO2 from the atmosphere to do it < 1295331039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Photosynthesis. < 1295331059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, surely at least H2O or something is needed, if this is real> < 1295331070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, sorry, *and water*. Duh. < 1295331080 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as yet, photosynthesis is incredibly inefficient for market purposes < 1295331091 0 :Wamanuz3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1295331093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Not when your bacteria are directly outputting fuel. < 1295331093 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this solution scale? < 1295331113 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's not that much sunlight coming to this planet (in terms of power density)... < 1295331151 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, on the order of 1GW per square kilometre, but square kilometre is quite a big area... < 1295331160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are *claiming* that at full scale, they could get 15,000 gallons of diesel per acre per year. < 1295331178 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actually, the average power is something like 200MW... < 1295331186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In lab, they are achieving 40% of that. < 1295331213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no need for the land to actually be agriculturally useful... < 1295331225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death Valley would work quite nicely. < 1295331282 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Land can be useful for growing food without being agriculturally useful... But there are lands that aren't useful in any way, yes... < 1295331355 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, they're making diesel - better get a diesel car < 1295331366 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that in death valley, there's not that much water available... < 1295331378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Arbitrary hydrocarbons. < 1295331406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: So you'd probably want somewhere with plenty of sunlight, plenty of water, and no real other use. < 1295331425 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "can produce renewable diesel fuel" < 1295331482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: They can also produce ethanol. < 1295331529 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the the energy content of 15000gal of biodiesel? < 1295331532 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok... but what about gasoline, the main alternative to diesel? < 1295331541 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... There aren't exactly many such places... < 1295331557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Bleck. < 1295331572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Well, without much work a gasoline engine can burn ethanol. < 1295331601 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, lands that have been totally destroyed by agriculture could do... < 1295331613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Pretty much all you need to do is replace hoses where fuel runs, as ethanol can dissolve them. < 1295331647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, a bit labor-intensive, but entirely practical. < 1295331650 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds much harder than just using diesel... < 1295331683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you get a brand new car? < 1295331741 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also with bioethanol, where are you going to get it in massive scale and with good EROEI? Algae could possibly do, but the technology is quite immature... < 1295331748 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, buying a well-made car is much easier than customizing an existing one < 1295331846 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295331897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: They're claiming to have it *right now*... < 1295331917 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay some calculations done < 1295331919 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but it's only commercial in 2012 or later < 1295331934 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the diesel they rpoduce has the energy content of most other biofuel < 1295331942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Yes; I'm just saying they have the tech working and affordable right this instant. < 1295331958 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can produce 15000 gal per acre-year < 1295331994 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then less than 64 acres are needed to replace all the world's current fossil fuel usage < 1295332012 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems astounding < 1295332039 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's something like 85 million barrels per DAY. < 1295332091 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The amount they are claiming is something like 360 barrels per year from one acre. < 1295332219 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you would need about 350 000 km^2... < 1295332239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, they don't *seem* to be crackpots. Among other things, they've got George Church (Professor of Health Sciences and Technology at MIT and Harvard; invented genome sequencing; helped initiate the Human Genome Project) and Jim Collins (Professor of Biomedical Engineering at Boston University; essentially *invented* genetic engineering) on board... < 1295332334 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1295332339 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems more right < 1295332347 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found a mistake in my calculation < 1295332396 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was assuming without realizing it that a gallon of biodiesel would last a whole year of continuous usage :P < 1295332433 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they give the energy content of fuel instead of the raw power available? < 1295332460 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the average use case i mean) < 1295332521 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha... "The results suggest there is a weak correlation, but better or larger studies are needed to really tell one way or the other."... "$415 million were spent on this study, there won't be another bigger study." < 1295332601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It was supposed to be random in all direction, but Notch mixed up degrees with radians" < 1295332615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course he did < 1295332650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1295332658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/TNT < 1295332783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1295332837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. It's possible to destroy bedrock. < 1295332973 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1295333004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bedrock has finite TNT resistance. < 1295333011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Large*, but finite. < 1295333136 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you concentrate enough explosive power to one spot? AFAIK, you can only drop about 250 TNT blocks to one spot... < 1295333199 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TNT blocks only explode few blocks away, so you could maybe cause few thoursand TNT explosions to reach given spot at once... < 1295333242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFZKtvHQSNY Well, this guy managed to. < 1295333253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ball o' TNT there is just above ground. < 1295333258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The primed TNT just fell enough. < 1295333482 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's tall... Note that clouds clip it... < 1295333540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's really big. < 1295333553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that it's *possible*, not that it's sane to destroy bedrock. :) < 1295333697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an earlier version of MC < 1295333803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still possible. < 1295333824 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one MC < 1295333842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cover up the crater with lots of dirt except for a well-hidden shaft < 1295333857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch victim-players fall in < 1295333858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1295333860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Profit! < 1295333902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The One MC: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1260/593523075_33d187df39.jpg < 1295333946 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-247.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295334080 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that huge ball o' TNT looks awesome < 1295334098 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The material surrounding the central pool is bedrock? < 1295334194 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it is not water... < 1295334386 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then fill that hole with TNT and ignite it? :-) < 1295334490 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1295334590 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295335372 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295335389 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295335634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1295335659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The creator of a language should know whether non-macros are allowed insde macros < 1295335745 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask larry wall that < 1295335754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O? < 1295335844 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in 60's people sure were more optimistic about spaceflight: Calling for manned mars flight by end of the century... Now there's no idea how long that would take (most probably never given present conditions). < 1295336866 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1295337310 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC allocations/delegations (in latest report): 2x/8, 1x/9, 46x/10, 43x/11, 100x/12, 201x/13, 415x/14, 577x/15, 1588x/16, 630x/17, 874x/18, 1613x/19, 1744x/20, 1503x/21, 764x/22, 72x/23, 172x/24. < 1295337599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1295337600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1295337639 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295337673 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1295338452 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295338802 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For total of 757 220 352 IPs (45.13x/8). Logaritmic allocation size /2.50. < 1295338902 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logaritmic size of the entiere IPv4 global unicast space is about /0.21 < 1295341159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about that 240/4 set, is no-one going to use that thing ever? I mean, yes, yes, "reserved for future use", but there's not going to be any call for that in a totally IPv6 world. :p < 1295341688 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody is ever going to use them... < 1295341775 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means 588 316 672 addresses are not usable for global unicast. < 1295342015 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: Some addresses are pretty much unusable due to OS bug... < 1295342122 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, there are around 2M of such addresses... < 1295342128 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bugs < 1295342215 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like assigning IP address of e.g. 195.221.52.255 to Windows box isn't going to go very well (at least earlier versions of Windows couldn't have that address). < 1295343280 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295343403 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295344372 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1295347446 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295347496 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295347522 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1295349654 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295349665 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g224202211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1295350692 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@dias.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1295352372 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1295355447 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295356288 0 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1295356297 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1295357948 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1295357995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1295359369 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1295359408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1295359417 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1295359423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1295359425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1295359429 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1295359432 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1295359432 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1295359452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295359463 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295359476 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1295359482 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:38d7:1:20e:a6ff:fe6f:2288 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295360042 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1295360117 0 :augur_!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295360141 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295360164 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295360204 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g224202211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1295360891 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.75.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295360891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1295360891 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1295360891 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295360891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog is down? < 1295360896 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295360916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1295360936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :17SAARPFQ < 1295360936 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.75.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295360937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dsfdg < 1295360937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1295360952 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian Software Freedom for Debian Goodness < 1295360957 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- elliott!~elliott@91.105.75.160 has just authenticated as you (elliott) * You are now known as 17SAARPFQ < 1295360957 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott (~elliott@91.105.75.160) has joined #esoteric-minecraft < 1295360957 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yay, my logbot stayed up. < 1295360957 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or maybe not. < 1295360957 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Erm... < 1295360959 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott has quit (Client Quit) < 1295360961 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> What... the... fuck... < 1295360964 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said those things *when I first joined*. < 1295360971 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither clog nor my logbot saw them. < 1295360978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1295360980 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... have no fucking clue what just happened. < 1295360984 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, that was in -minecraft < 1295360987 0 :17SAARPFQ!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1295361001 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295361015 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric-minecraft? < 1295361018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anonymity reference? < 1295361030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: we split the channel into minecraft and non-minecraft discussion < 1295361044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because although minecraft is actually a valid esolang, people normally weren't discussing it as one < 1295361046 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft discussions on esoteric??? sinc when? < 1295361058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: for weeks now < 1295361067 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC server force-renicking? < 1295361070 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose redstone is what makes it a language? < 1295361110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, see my lines I pasted < 1295361113 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295361117 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there are at least 1 482 CAs trusted by Firefox / Windows 7... Nifty. < 1295361125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: presumably < 1295361127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** elliott is now known as 17SAARPFQ. < 1295361130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've just been talking about it as players :P < 1295361131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1295361136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> -NickServ- elliott!~elliott@91.105.75.160 has just authenticated as you (elliott) * You are now known as 17SAARPFQ < 1295361136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> * elliott (~elliott@91.105.75.160) has joined #esoteric-minecraft < 1295361136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> Yay, my logbot stayed up. < 1295361136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> Or maybe not. < 1295361136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> Erm... < 1295361136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forced renicking is normally to guest-number, isn't it? < 1295361138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> * elliott has quit (Client Quit) < 1295361140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> <17SAARPFQ> What... the... fuck... < 1295361142 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295361142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> I said those things *when I first joined*. < 1295361144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<17SAARPFQ> Neither clog nor my logbot saw them. < 1295361145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you pasted it already < 1295361150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it makes no sense! < 1295361153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was automatic < 1295361183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so basically, I joined, said things, nothing else saw them, not even me connecting; reconnected, now things could see me, got booted off my nick, saw my own ghost connect, said the lines I originally did, and then quit < 1295361186 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295361214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that makes no sense < 1295361220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: THAT'S WHAT I SAID < 1295361239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suspect some Freenode system glitch, maybe to do with server-to-server communication. < 1295361243 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1295361249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i _did_ see clog is down? (and so did clog :D) < 1295361260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, that's when everything started working < 1295361275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that the current nickserv actually recommends using /ns ghost in order to get rid of someone impersonating you < 1295361280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most nickservs have a separate command for that < 1295361358 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1295361370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you call a person who, after writing a logbot, realises they need a way to serve the logs, and decides to write their own HTTP server, handling the protocol themselves, with a built-in log formatter, in Ruby? < 1295361390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from "mad"? < 1295361401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Martin would work well < 1295361404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps George < 1295361413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now known as MartinGeorge
< 1295361435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least I didn't reinvent the wheel in log storage, and stole loggic's format instead < 1295361448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that I omitted the date from the timestamps as i have a file per date < 1295361565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loggic stole its format from the IRC standard < 1295361569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why invent a new one? < 1295361571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nuh uh, it added dates < 1295361577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1295361586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just date(1), I think < 1295361586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you see anyone else while this weird stuff was happening? maybe you just accidentally joined a split server and got renicked when it unsplit again < 1295361599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that might make sense < 1295361609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott on both sides of the split server, and the real elliott was newer than the logbot < 1295361643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, looks like i don't put "stopped logging" messages in the log properly < 1295361652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I've forgotten to set the encoding to utf-8 < 1295361702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the HTTP side? < 1295361711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :original encoding would make sense for actual storage < 1295361818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP side, yes < 1295361934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i want to recreate my log formatter for clog, now < 1295361943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://208.78.103.223/2011-01-18 is just so much easier to read than the plain text files < 1295361950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it could do with some nicer wrapping behaviour < 1295362030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:37:50 Sgeo: /ignore elliott < 1295362030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:37:53 then attempt to use it < 1295362030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:38:11 if you enjoy it and find it useful < 1295362030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:38:20 then go for it < 1295362030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm an evil demon sent from hell that kicks puppies and eats kittens, interestingly though for the past N days the only things you have said in channel have been "WAAH MINECRAFT TALK :(" and "LOL ELLIOTT SUXX0Rz" < 1295362094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you've annoyed most of the language fanboys in the world by using non-Rails Ruby to serve a website < 1295362100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:54:46 comex is in the Nimrod channel < 1295362103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: apparently he uses it < 1295362124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, there are plenty of silly ruby webframeworks, i just went past rejecting web frameworks and rejected even using the http server library that ships with ruby < 1295362151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was making a reference to Rails fanboys in particular, who are some of the more obnoxious language fanboys < 1295362157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a (slightly old but essentially the same) version of the http server code to demonstrate just how ugly it is: http://sprunge.us/KHVi < 1295362159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, they are < 1295362161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're probably fuming < 1295362179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : req = sock.gets < 1295362179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : split = req.split(" ") < 1295362179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : next if split.length < 2 < 1295362180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : path = split[1][1..-1] < 1295362189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ you can make requests to this http server with "/foo" < 1295362191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1295362193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ you can make requests to this http server with "/foo" < 1295362213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've just had an insane idea < 1295362231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how many IRC clients color nicks, or color lines by nick < 1295362238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that different people look different? < 1295362253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that runs into problems due to colors clashing, or else not staying consistent from use to use < 1295362263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:10:54 "Whole program dead code elimination: Only used functions are included in the executable." < 1295362264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:10:54 I assume that's not making the claim that every single function that will never be called is always removed < 1295362264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:10:54 Is it? < 1295362264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:10:54 Sgeo: it is < 1295362267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What on earth is wrong with that... < 1295362269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea is: you color logs by nick, but very gradually change the colors from one color to another < 1295362276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're insane < 1295362286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that people get the same color as they had when they left when rejoining, but it now magically doesn't clash with anything else < 1295362294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if the language doesn't have eval you can do that < 1295362304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manveru is a rubyist i think...or at least used to be < 1295362328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it doesn't have eval, and doesn't have construction of function pointers at runtime < 1295362335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: indeed, manveru is the guy behind ramaze (the _original_ Yet Another Ruby Web Framework) < 1295362340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes < 1295362345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although calling dead code via constructing the function pointer manually is dubious at best < 1295362352 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295362354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I suppose would work just as well to call dead code inside a conditional < 1295362367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:23:35 "Thus it cannot represent an UTF-8 character, but a part of it. The reason for this is efficiency: for the overwhelming majority of use-cases, the resulting programs will still handle UTF-8 properly as UTF-8 was specially designed for this." < 1295362367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:23:37 Fuck you. < 1295362367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've developed a pattern of saying "fuck you" to any feature you don't like < 1295362369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've lost count of the number of times I've done if (0) { label: ... } in C < 1295362376 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless dead code elimination eliminates that). < 1295362380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure you should be nicer to language designers unless they're really terrible < 1295362391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: we're discussing absurd failure modes of dead code elimination < 1295362438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bug: /me (CTCP ACTION) leaves the trailing \x01 in < 1295362441 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If linker is doing dead function elimination, it better be sure that the functions really are dead... < 1295362449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your logger still running, btw? < 1295362461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1295362463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in -minecraft < 1295362469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, clog actually replied < 1295362483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'll fix that bug, thankfully it's a bug in the http server < 1295362487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an advantage of logging raw < 1295362498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:59] [CTCP] Sending CTCP-TEST request to #esoteric. < 1295362500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:59] [CTCP] Received CTCP-ERRMSG reply from clog: unknown CTCP: TEST. < 1295362514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah clog is weird < 1295362517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, clog doesn't reply to ctcp source < 1295362530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herobrine is open-source! < 1295362534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:00] [CTCP] Sending CTCP-ERRMSG request to clog. < 1295362536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:00] [CTCP] Received CTCP-ERRMSG reply from clog: unknown CTCP: ERRMSG. < 1295362539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly superior? < 1295362544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahttp://sprunge.us/VWfX < 1295362545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but is it on an FTP server? < 1295362546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*http://sprunge.us/VWfX < 1295362551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, no it isn't < 1295362559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP SOURCE is specifically specified to specify an FTP server < 1295362562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll donate the copyrights to the FSF to become a GNU project < 1295362566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the hell of it < 1295362570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, that sentence wasn't even deliberate < 1295362581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently, you automatically become a GNU project by doing that) < 1295362592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [CTCP] Received CTCP-ERRMSG reply from clog: unknown CTCP: ERRMSG. < 1295362608 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :269) [CTCP] Received CTCP-ERRMSG reply from clog: unknown CTCP: ERRMSG. < 1295362613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1295362615 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91) Actually, he still looks like he'd rather eat her than have sex with her. < 1295362627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember that quote existing < 1295362629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1295362630 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112) think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat < 1295362637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1295362639 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10) So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs? < 1295362647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an entirely different QDB! < 1295362655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can break the rules as much as we want! < 1295362661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen? < 1295362662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already Sine quotes in there, so who cares :P < 1295362665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I added it < 1295362671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what happened to the old one? < 1295362678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an entirely different qdb? < 1295362680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's the same < 1295362682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes < 1295362684 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28226 < 1295362685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see for yourself < 1295362692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I /did/ trim a lot of the rubbish ones, but that was ages ago now < 1295362695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of them are still there < 1295362720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, if you can exploit the http server, you'll get root on rutian, since i cba to drop privileges after binding to port 80 < 1295362757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a little unlikely there'd be an arbitrary code exploit in a Ruby program of that length < 1295362763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, don't I have root on rutian anyway, in theory? < 1295362771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it a different rutian? < 1295362789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I wiped it to run updog before, so "no", but yes, you could get it trivially < 1295362793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by asking) < 1295362810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is updog like dupdog? < 1295362814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1295362822 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohey. where did updog go and what did it do while it was here? < 1295362834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took it down, and it replied to messages containing updog with "What's updog?" < 1295362841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WAS QUITE A SILLY BOT < 1295362857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now, I must design the language to trap Sgeo forever so that he shall never go looking for another language again < 1295362862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to consult the logs as to what I need to put in it < 1295362862 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1295362863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the logbot called again? < 1295362874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you just wrote, I mean? < 1295362893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Herobrine, after http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/6/68/1283223082465.jpg (warning: image of mostly text) < 1295362920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose that's better than accidentally trying to watch a video in xterm < 1295362962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted vlc, so I used command-not-found to install it < 1295362971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems there's a command-line version of vlc that doesn't do graphics < 1295362981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I had aalib installed for a different reason < 1295362984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer once played a video with -- yep < 1295362988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i think it was libcaca < 1295362989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i got colour < 1295362994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I got color too < 1295362999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only I had a 1920x1080 terminal < 1295363002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, colour < 1295363005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably libcaca, then < 1295363015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably was color actually, I doubt this screen was manufactured in the UK < 1295363022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1295363035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm sorry, I can't view your colour photograph, I only have an American monitor" < 1295363093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to try something along those lines on someone who's being really obtusely stupid at some point < 1295363112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I need to get into the language-creating ZONE < 1295363122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... looking at my secret plans < 1295363155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prototype-based homoiconic immutable everything-is-a-map symbolic URI-based hash-based language with complicated module system and an Active Worlds binding < 1295363166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's all I need to trap Sgeo forever < 1295363186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, I mentally interpreted "homoiconic" as "only uses one character" < 1295363197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt that would help < 1295363205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what specifically is immutable? < 1295363267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1295363291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, clog actually replied <-- it replies to unknown ctcps but doesn't actually log them iirc < 1295363319 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... "See here, I began my practice as a cardiologist in 1921 and never saw an Myocardial Infarction (heart attack) patient until 1928."... Heart attacks were pretty rare back then... < 1295363355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:40:37 Huh. It's possible to destroy bedrock. < 1295363355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:24 Bedrock has finite TNT resistance. < 1295363356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:43:31 *Large*, but finite. < 1295363363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Impossible, you can't get a big enough explosion in one place. < 1295363371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's been DONE? < 1295363379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...also, #esoteric-minecraft < 1295363445 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw video where huge amount of TNT blew a hole in the minecraft _world_ floor. < 1295363451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, great discussion in thedailywtf sidebar < 1295363458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're busy talking about security holes in the .java format < 1295363473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not in Java programs themeselves; rather, malicious .java files that do nasty things if opened in an IDE) < 1295363489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about malicious binaries when you can have malicious source? < 1295363502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: this seems to be that video < 1295363556 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched that vid last night < 1295363560 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome crater < 1295363630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, massive virtual explosions are more interesting than malicious source files :( < 1295363639 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295363663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ohey. where did updog go and what did it do while it was here? <-- we also suspect it of doing some secret message passing, thereby annoying elliott :D < 1295363673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm interested < 1295363677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was waiting for details < 1295363697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, explosions are pretty interesting < 1295363709 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the name of the thread? < 1295363722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swing Label XSRF < 1295363724 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g229028023.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1295363724 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1295363728 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1295363742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is, most Swing controls distinguish plaintext from html by looking for at the start < 1295363759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can randomly put bold or italics into your labels, or whatever, just by changing your internationalisation files < 1295363785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this basically lets you XSRF arbitrary form controls with user-controllable text < 1295363802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if an IDE is displaying, say, a list of methods in a class < 1295363832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can put HTML in their documentation, and use the element to get it to GET arbitrary URLs < 1295363835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1295363862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thread confirmed that it works on both Eclipse and NetBeans < 1295363870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm designing an ostensible esolang, for the sake of ontopicness you have to help < 1295363877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Eclipse doesn't use Swing... < 1295363888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, but apparently what it does use has the same feature < 1295363895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, and they /wrote/ it < 1295363896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Security gets really fun when you can have maliscous programs (not just maliscous input to honest programs). < 1295363899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SWT) < 1295363911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: this is malicious input to honest programs, though < 1295363921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the malicious input happens to be program source code < 1295363941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think that's all I need to trap Sgeo forever <-- suggested name: goldbars < 1295363945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like... imagine you had a compiler that was setuid for some reason, and there's a program you could feed it as input in order to get local root escalation < 1295363949 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me when I found some security holes in one runtime (could be exploited by program doing some insane things). < 1295363957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sethinitely < 1295363978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: generally if a security hole exploit isn't insane, it's found quickly by chance < 1295363987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so most of the ones that aren't found for a while are < 1295364046 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like dereferencing suitable indexes in array (and those indexes were huge). < 1295364089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I saw video where huge amount of TNT blew a hole in the minecraft _world_ floor. <-- they should stick some _really_ nasty monsters under there :D < 1295364099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, you just passed up an opportunity to get the channel on topic < 1295364113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that may be unwise; map areas generated before halloween have holes dotted about the place in it :D < 1295364129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm willing to help, just not sure how < 1295364191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a lot of it is similar enough to http://enchiladacode.nl/ and http://will.thimbleby.net/misc/ which Sgeo responded positively to (especially MISC), which is where most of the feature list comes from, and so I'll probably end up stealing a bit of them < 1295364194 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a monster that spits lit TNT blocks? :-> < 1295364208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: That's just a slightly scarier creeper :P < 1295364221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of expect sgeo to completely change what he likes in a language before i manage to get this done, but who cares, it's for science < 1295364305 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course has some completely ridiculous amount of HP... < 1295364348 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know you don't have the attention span, but if you could implement such a language...and then specifically disinclude a handful of things that you know he'd want to do as even being /possible/ to do, while making the rest such a joy to use that he gets hooked on it anyway, then you would have the best language evar. < 1295364400 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: no, the FSM should float below the level, and stick his noodly appendages up through the holes to grab anything moving < 1295364401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: maybe i'll make a language that is SO GOOD, but only usable to people not at SUNY Farmingdale < 1295364418 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would just be doing him a favor :P < 1295364448 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First reaction to monster like that (spits TNT blocks) would be RUN! < 1295364474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should spit blocks that after a few seconds either split into two blocks, or become lit TNT blocks, at random < 1295364486 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second reaction: oh. wait. it'll kill itself eventually. *sit and wait* < 1295364505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the chance chosen such that it has a nonzero chance (around 50:50) that a single such block lasts indefinitely and eventually destroys the world < 1295364534 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course it flies so high that TNT blasts won't damage it... < 1295364563 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the creature that does this should be hydra like so that killing it produces two of the original < 1295364576 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should have very low HP so it kills itself with its own TNT all the time < 1295364601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god you people, #esoteric-minecraft :-) < 1295364607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or coppro will literally explode < 1295364608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1295364620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: causing him to become two coppros? < 1295364625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hope not ... < 1295364681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. in the zone. IN THE ZONE! ais523: can i direct my stream-of-thought about the language to you? monologuing feels so strange < 1295364685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can turn off ping notifications if you want < 1295364692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1295364709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like I'll even make random comments so that you don't think you're monologuing < 1295364779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Obviously everything should be a map (and maps are ordered? Like Enchilada? Possibly, possibly not, MISC doesn't have them), and integers should be done similar to Enchilada, perhaps, everything should be a map, strings will be represented as just lists of integers, functions are probably just maps with symbolic elements so that they're kind of like a lazy infinite map? that way map access and function calls are the same i.e. a function is < 1295364779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : from input to output and if undefined values look up as nil which will be the empty map [], then every function is total too < 1295364798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ordered map" sounds worryingly like PHP < 1295364808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP doesn't have ordered maps. < 1295364813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just does arrays as index -> value < 1295364818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's hardly the worst thing about PHP by far < 1295364819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has arrays, which are key/value but ordered < 1295364825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not ordered < 1295364842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Enchilada has that funky thing where both keys and values are optional so it represents 0 as [], 1 as [=], 2 as [=;=] 3 as [=;=;=] etc. < 1295364848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why is it possible to sort them whilst keeping the keys and values the same? < 1295364853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should possibly steal that except that it seems a bit strange to be able to omit both keys and values, < 1295364883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so then the choice is possibly between Enchilada style lists -- [=1;=2;=3] (same as [1;2;3]), no keys, but it's ordered and you can have duplicates OR < 1295364892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MISC style [0:1 1:2 2:3] i.e. index:value < 1295364896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good point I forgot about that < 1295364905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a PHP array is like [1="one";2="two";3="three"] IIRC < 1295364908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it starts at 0 < 1295364908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1295364913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MISC is like that too < 1295364915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it's PHP, it's unlikely to be consistent < 1295364917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MISC maps are unordered though < 1295364924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and so really this comes down to the choice of the basic structure again < 1295364940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enchilada maps are ordered trees of (key,value) pairs where both key and value are optional < 1295364941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is Google down? < 1295364943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MISC maps are just associative maps < 1295364964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google.co.uk < 1295364976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : An array in PHP is actually an ordered map < 1295364977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can access it too < 1295364978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1295364986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, Enchilada sequences also have a sign, but that's just crazy. < 1295364989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's how they do negative numbers. < 1295364990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yahoo!'s second result was the one I wanted, anyway < 1295365001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, I have no idea how to do negative numbers in Underlambda < 1295365013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with Enchilada, [] and _[] are distinct, for every sequence [] < 1295365018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might just assume they don't exist, and have a library that does sign/magnitude, much like you might have a library to do floats < 1295365020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and every operation works on both positive and negatives < 1295365045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for operations that are arithmetic generalised to sequences, they work properly on negatives < 1295365051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others use the sign to overload their behaviour < 1295365066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which do you prefer, prefix or postfix syntax? < 1295365091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this PHP documentation is full of special cases that don't make sense < 1295365106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1295365140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :appending to an array picks the index after the previous last index for the next element, except if it's negative where what happens depends on what version of PHP you use < 1295365146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1295365163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there are a lot of statements saying things like "you cannot do X, if you do it causes a warning" < 1295365163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh I forgot an extra-important feature, SANDBOXING, because Sgeo loves that, did I mention hotswapping too? Because hotswapping < 1295365173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sandboxing is easy < 1295365180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just give your language few capabilities < 1295365183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1295365190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Naw, I'll do it PROPERLY. < 1295365219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear: < 1295365227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As mentioned above, if no key is specified, the maximum of the existing integer indices is taken, and the new key will be that maximum value plus 1. If no integer indices exist yet, the key will be 0 (zero). < 1295365228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the maximum integer key used for this need not currently exist in the array. It need only have existed in the array at some time since the last time the array was re-indexed. The following example illustrates: < 1295365235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1295365253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, worst array object ever < 1295365262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP should be banned < 1295365264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have just made it work like JS's; that one is also slightly insane, but not nearly that bad < 1295365273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I used PHP, I /didn't understand/ the concept of a library < 1295365285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language prevents you < 1295365302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I've been having various ideas for ( < 1295365314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for... (? < 1295365333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language that's superficially similar to C, but with all the semantics subtly different < 1295365346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good name < 1295365360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bonus points if you can make it obey the C standard to the letter < 1295365367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that they're a) more useful in practice, although further from the system, but b) cause programs to break randomly if their programmer tried to slip into C habits < 1295365386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that doesn't let me do fun things by making the language call-by-name < 1295365393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more useful in practice? :D < 1295365396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1295365419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's more general, and can trivially simulate by-reference or by-value, which are the most commonly wanted conventions < 1295365432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're all equivalent < 1295365439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, you have mutability? how quaint! < 1295365470 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1295365486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not quite: with immutability but with side effects, by-name and by-value are different < 1295365509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the world is state, immutability precludes changing it < 1295365510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as by-name doesn't force the evaluation of an argument unless it's actually used < 1295365522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the same way that the IO monad isn't purely functional < 1295365526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, OK < 1295365542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, /me swears we've had that exact same exchange before, while I was in the exact same place on the minecraft server < 1295365543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to languages like idealised algol in which you couldn't directly reference anything not immutable < 1295365561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could have, say, pointers to mutable memory (which cannot be accessed except via the pointer) < 1295365573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml works like that too < 1295365581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as do, I expect, other MLs < 1295365644 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you get deja vu on the previous occasion also? < 1295365651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but not Amethyst! (Sgeo's language needs a name, if it turns out he doesn't like amethyst I'll rename it) < 1295365653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no :D < 1295365654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why on earth does this page about arrays have a discussion on why you should quote constant strings that you're using as array keys, but not the names of variables when you want to use their values as array keys? < 1295365665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought you were calling it goldbars? < 1295365675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was oerjan's suggestion :P < 1295365679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1295365680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, yes, sethinitely. < 1295365712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, why on earth would official documentation need to explain the distinction between a variable and a string in the definition of an entirely unrelated concept < 1295365726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention, at all, except once to explain the syntax for specifying a string? < 1295365763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in /Amethyst/, strings are just maps! < 1295365772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from maps, to maps! < 1295365772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously! < 1295365784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1295365786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I go the MISC route < 1295365788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 0 = [] < 1295365793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that's similar to the view of the world that I like in esolangs < 1295365796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = [[]:[]] < 1295365802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 = [[]:[[]:[]]] < 1295365803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1295365806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(x) = [[]:x] < 1295365815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is disturbingly close to Ursala actually :) < 1295365833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype t = ([t] -> [t]) < 1295365839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is basically the Underlambda view of the world < 1295365854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *newtype T = T ([T] -> [T]) < 1295365858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1295365863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used Haskell in a while < 1295365867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: surely it also has a nil element? < 1295365876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no, it doesn't need one < 1295365878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1295365880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it: < 1295365881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists can be empty < 1295365888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nil = T (\_ -> [])? < 1295365889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1295365893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nil = T (\x -> x) < 1295365914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is a much better choice for a nil the way underlambda works < 1295365917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Ursala i blame ais523 < 1295365918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually represents the number 1 < 1295365927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't write that! < 1295365935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you probably made all those examples! < 1295365941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ursala's fun to laugh at at a distance < 1295365947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't want to actually /write/ in it < 1295365956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, 168? < 1295365977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sometimes, I worry that languages like Ursala are actually more brilliant than all of us ... then I wake up the next day, sober < 1295365982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1295365997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Y_combinator#Ursala < 1295366000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god. < 1295366011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's anything particularly insane about the basic concepts, it's just the execution is just wrong in so many ways < 1295366040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I forgot that ursala used double-quotes for lambda variables < 1295366049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what it uses for strings < 1295366055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, any objections to me putting Herobrine in here? < 1295366061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the log interface is nicer than clog's... < 1295366080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no objection, multiple logbots is a good thing < 1295366080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll even convert the clog logs into raw IRC format if I can < 1295366084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc we should have clog logging as well < 1295366094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there has been no formatted interface to the logs in a long time < 1295366099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a bad thing < 1295366105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember going to ircbrowse.com? me too < 1295366126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does Ursala let you hot-swap fixed-point implementations for use in compiling recursive functions? < 1295366136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me a while to realise that the operation even made sense < 1295366138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1295366155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does at a logical level, in that there's no great implementation impediment to that being possible < 1295366161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still can't figure out why you'd want to do it < 1295366181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to OPTIMISE RECURSION < 1295366197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TIL that Ursala "x". means the same thing as Haskell \x -> < 1295366231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fixed point combinator defined above is theoretically correct but inefficient and limited to first order functions, whereas the standard distribution includes a library (sol) providing a hierarchy of fixed point combinators suitable for production use and with higher order functions. A more efficient alternative implementation of my_fix would be general_function_fixer 0 (with 0 signifying the lowest order of fixed point combinators), or if that' < 1295366233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s too easy, then by this definition." < 1295366253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, various fixed-point combinators only work on a subset of functions < 1295366274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which worryingly implies that Ursala functions don't work quite the same way as mathematical ones < 1295366281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that actually makes sense < 1295366309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's talking about _all_ fixed points, not just the fix(f) := \x. f(fix(f))(x) definition < 1295366315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1295366332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g., fix(/2) == 0, but the above fix wouldn't find it, obviously < 1295366367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://taw.chaosforge.org/amethyst/ < 1295366374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, taw < 1295366388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, just pick a name that's already in use and use that < 1295366403 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-209.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295366407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick with Amethyst for now < 1295366421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the PowerShell fixedpoint is pretty scary too < 1295366422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh oh, I think I've found something that doesn't fit into my glorious maps-all-the-way-down structure < 1295366437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does, just shoehorn it in < 1295366450 0 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1295366455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295366459 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1295366487 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 Vorpal : what happened to yesterday's Vorpal vs. elliott battle? < 1295366488 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in how did it end < 1295366506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, one thing I'm stealing from Enchilada is symbolic-ness < 1295366532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka_: I thought you were there at the time? < 1295366537 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was < 1295366539 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i missed the ending < 1295366540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, Enchilada does lambdas like {a b=b a} for swap < 1295366540 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1295366544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you didn't < 1295366547 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1295366550 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember now < 1295366555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the way /I/ see it, functions are just infinite maps! < 1295366561 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ended in a giant while of silence and battle over the thread < 1295366565 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic* < 1295366575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should be able to say [a=a], and then whenever you look up 2, it notices that there's a symbolic key, and does the obvious < 1295366577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was teaching someone Perl, they decided that hashes were just non-infinite functions < 1295366581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is: what is "a", as maps? < 1295366585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they sound quite bright < 1295366590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that, at least < 1295366593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are < 1295366606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you then ruin their worldview with side-effects? :-) < 1295366608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to program a few decades ago but had dropped out of the field for a while < 1295366616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quite used to side-effects < 1295366620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1295366644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming had moved on a lot since, but I restricted myself to demonstrating what imperative langs were like nowadays as it's all they needed for what they were doing < 1295366659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I /could/ make [a=a] be the same as ["a"="a"], as in, a string < 1295366663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Perl because what they wanted to do was insanely suited to it < 1295366668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, of course, that would stop you using maps as maps from strings to values < 1295366670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just ludicrous < 1295366674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah no, putting lambda variables in double quotes is an Ursala thing < 1295366676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also stops you using them for namespaces < 1295366679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't want to copy features from there < 1295366680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ssssh < 1295366698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, if I gave every map a sign like in Enchilada, then [a=a] could be the same as [_"a"=_"a"] < 1295366715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., a negative map from integers to integers is a symbolic variable < 1295366716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note that Perl 6 doesn't actually need a Y combinator because you can name anonymous functions from the inside: < 1295366721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1295366732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort-of makes sense, actually < 1295366738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do that in Overload too, via pointer arithmetic < 1295366746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is the sort of reason why Overload never got anywhere) < 1295366785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Overload was better in that you could name the entire call stack like that < 1295366800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably you can in Perl 6 too, using an extended version of caller or something) < 1295366842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, should I go add INTERCAL examples to Rosetta Code? < 1295366843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but negative maps seem so... ugly! < 1295366848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now is a bad time, but it seems like it should be done sometime < 1295366863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps a singleton list of a string is a symbolic variable < 1295366865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a == ["a"] < 1295366865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reminds me of Underload's distinction between quoting and non-quoting lists < 1295366873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, Overload < 1295366877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload doesn't do anything quite that insane < 1295366889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/html/logo/ HTML5 logo unveiled, ugly < 1295366894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is, incidentally, the reason Underload bans the <> characters < 1295366906 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ugh < 1295366911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I need everything to be only one wonderful unified structure, for homoiconicity! < 1295366913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that logo's like an old-fashioned superhero logo < 1295366918 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it looks very tacky < 1295366922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it does. < 1295366930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it... NEED a logo? < 1295366930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like an energy drink. < 1295366933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1295366935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRINK HTML 5 < 1295366950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Overload's almost homoiconic: everything's either a list (quoting or non-quoting), or a pointer < 1295366956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The H stands for Hyper, the T stands for Teamwork, the M stands for Multiple banned ingredients, the L stands for LOTS OF MONEY FOR US. < 1295366962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: UNACCEPTABLE < 1295366974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page also renders wrong in this Firefox 3.6.13 I have at work. < 1295366979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding pointers was probably what lead to the sheer insanity of the language < 1295366992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a language that is mostly purely functional, except a) you can modify code at runtime, and b) it has goto < 1295367021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, that was just the lack of scripts. Works with those.) < 1295367026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and calling a function's done by adding a goto at the end of it that jumps back to where you called it from < 1295367034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to call a function more than once, you copy it first < 1295367036 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Badge Builder 5000 < 1295367038 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SERIOUSLY < 1295367040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1295367058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who broke ais523's pipe? < 1295367077 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, me < 1295367085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. < 1295367100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is the JavaScript support machinery -- http://www.w3.org/html/logo/js/modernizr.js -- behind that logo pretty ugly? < 1295367112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bodyElem.innerHTML = body.innerHTML.replace(tagRegExp, '<$1font'); < 1295367113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1295367116 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know what modernizer is? < 1295367128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modernizr is some kind of backport-HTML5-to-bad-browsers thing. < 1295367133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it says what it is right at the top. < 1295367134 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah < 1295367136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also CSS3, apparently. < 1295367140 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295367142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not "modernizer", it's "modernizr". < 1295367142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL WEB DEVELOPMENT SUCKS DICK < 1295367144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:16] this way, you can figure out the callstack inside a function by first using the command that returns a pointer to itself (i.e. when you call the command, you get a pointer to that specific instance of the command in question), then moving it to the end of the list, then following < 1295367153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not according to its website! < 1295367157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they COMPRESSED THE FILENAME < 1295367158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1295367162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FILENAME. < 1295367199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even remember what the command was to get a pointer to follow another (i.e. the operation which in C would be written as *p = **p), but it was probably the same as the command for getting the head of a list or something like that < 1295367203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the e anywhere in http://www.modernizr.com/ either. < 1295367211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1295367233 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I admit I added an "e" - ARE YOU HAPPY NOW ? < 1295367241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"modernizr" is a silly choice; it's still >8 characters. Should've been "mdrnzr". < 1295367260 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "mdrnzr" is silly. it should have been m. < 1295367264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For DOS compatibility. < 1295367272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the Y combinator in J is crazy, almost as bad as the powershell one < 1295367284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey! < 1295367285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a J fan < 1295367286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because J restricts functions to second-order < 1295367287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDRNZR16.JS; see there's even space for version numbers. < 1295367292 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J ? < 1295367294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: technically, not really < 1295367304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it has verbs, and adverbs < 1295367307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1295367309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, you can't verb verbs < 1295367314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor adverb adverbs < 1295367315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can adverb a verb to get another verb < 1295367322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbs have both subject and object < 1295367324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, that's second order < 1295367325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but adverbs don't < 1295367326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, crazy awesome language. < 1295367329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes < 1295367331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's not like < 1295367334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 + function < 1295367334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's descended directly from APL. < 1295367334 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they don't even use their own logo! < 1295367335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is allowed < 1295367343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you want to write a Y combinator in J, you have to do things like serialise the verbs so that verbs can act on them < 1295367354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: J already has a fixed-point combinator, though... < 1295367362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1295367364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1295367370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exercise was about implementing Y specifically < 1295367371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I recall one existing. < 1295367373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1295367379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's more alien to J than it is to C < 1295367386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since you... don't loop or recurse, just about ever < 1295367387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1295367392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what are second-order functions? < 1295367400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: functions taking first-order functions and outputting first-order functions < 1295367404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first-order functions just take non-function values < 1295367408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: functions that take first-order functions as arguments < 1295367421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, taking a non-function as an argument and outputting a first-order function is arguably first-order < 1295367428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kdb, an extremely-high-performance database widely used in the financial industry for millions and millions of records, written in J's cousin, K, purportedly contains not a single loop < 1295367437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that doesn't surprise me < 1295367459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on what you mean by "loop", but I doubt it contains any imperative loops, they wouldn't make much sense in a lang that works like that < 1295367480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nor functional loops (i.e. recursion) < 1295367494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closest you get to a loop in these languages are folds, and IIRC K doesn't actually have folds < 1295367505 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1295367513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Unassignable-style loops, where data structures implicitly know how to iterate themselves? < 1295367555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1295367572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most useful data structure in Unassignable is a "do X n times" constant where X is immutable, but n can be changed < 1295367576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's basically all done with the built-in array functions, a very common pattern is to add extra dimensions to an array to store various transformations on it, and then collapse them down < 1295367580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in J < 1295367592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, that pretty much is looping, really < 1295367601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of like a map, just more structured < 1295367628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/f4dih/first_awesome_cave_find/ < 1295367632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, wrong channel. < 1295367659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, someone wrote Y in POP-11? < 1295367662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes no sense at all < 1295367665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you'd be hard-pressed to find a string of J code and point to a part and say, "there's the loop" < 1295367678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loops are everywhere < 1295367678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: actually, taking a non-function as an argument and outputting a first-order function is arguably first-orde < 1295367687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first-odour < 1295367696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit irssi < 1295367697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the loops are everywhere == the loops are nowhere :) < 1295367705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even "1+array" is a "loop" in J < 1295367708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: arguably as in I'm prepared to argue it, if someone takes the other side of the argument < 1295367726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i was about to say, that's just currying < 1295367747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well indeed, it is just currying < 1295367752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it shouldn't increase the order < 1295367798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you consider constant values, like constant integers, to be effectively zero-order functions? < 1295367801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if I do or not < 1295367862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1295367866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1295367866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't apply them < 1295367869 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295367872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1295367873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't apply them < 1295367875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are, therefore, not functions < 1295367888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aha, but you can't find a -1-order function to apply them /to/ < 1295367890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't matter < 1295367904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's nonsense < 1295367913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, you can make everything a function if you redefine the definition of function < 1295367924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but integers aren't functions by any reasonable definition (ignoring e.g. church numerals) < 1295367979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Idealised Algol, all uses of integers in a program are effectively functions that take no argument and return the integer in question < 1295367988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's sort of degenerate anyway. in the same way they are 0-_argument_ functions < 1295367991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same in Joy/Factor < 1295368001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There is only one type of function, 1-argument :) < 1295368006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same in all sorts of languages < 1295368032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but if you define n-argument functions for n > 1 then n=0 naturally means a non-function < 1295368071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well if you allow side-effects, 0-arg functions can be useful < 1295368082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure we've quarreled about this before ;D < 1295368086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1295368103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo! < 1295368129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, it turns out that the people giving me the handouts for my Java tutorials snuck a regular expression into what was otherwise very simple code < 1295368153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm yes. e.g. scala uses them for its call-by-name syntax iirc < 1295368164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scala does call-by-name? < 1295368188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sort of < 1295368197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I'm really quite somewhat of a call-by-name advocate for any language with side effects, using that as your model for everything in your day job does that to you) < 1295368204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan knows anything about Scala? < 1295368215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't he too...grumpy to look at new things? < 1295368227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1295368230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares for swat
< 1295368234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What makes this work is that all Clojure functions (thus rosetta-code defined here) implement the java.util.Comparator interface. < 1295368241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, ouch < 1295368247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an argument whose type is a 0-argument function, but write an expression that is of the type of its _result_ in its place, then it's implicitly converted to a function < 1295368252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1295368255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementing a dynamically typed language on the JVM is done by getting everything to implement everything? < 1295368269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i looked at scala before i got this grumpy < 1295368285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, I forgot Scala is actually 2003 vintage < 1295368286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in a shallow way < 1295368308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Algol-68 works a bit like that, it has some really complex rules to determine whether to coerce a function to its return type, then to void, or whether to just coerce it directly to void < 1295368308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders rewriting Herobrine in Haskell
< 1295368311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, everything should be written in Haskell < 1295368351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, this reminds me of something < 1295368368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my boss was trying to argue to me a while back that Haskell contained imperative-style assignable variables, as long as you used the IO monad < 1295368381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it does < 1295368389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IO monad is an imperative language < 1295368393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an imperative, mutable language < 1295368399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is my least favourite part of haskell :) < 1295368405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gave "do { x <- 1; x <- x + 1; return x }" as an example, corrected for me misremembering syntax and types < 1295368429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the statement about the IO monad is incidentally correct (although State would work better), the example is massively missing the point < 1295368443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think we had to insert some extra return statements in there to make it type < 1295368463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is that that isn't assignable variables at all, that's just SSA with lambda bindings < 1295368514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1295368516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's ridiculous < 1295368549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I failed to come up with a counterexample blatant enough to prove that that's not how Haskell worked at all, though < 1295368579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried removing the syntactic sugar but it didn't help < 1295368603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apparently Mathematica's compare functions use True for greater than and False for less than < 1295368611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what they use for equal, if anything < 1295368618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http-server library: A library fro writing Haskell web servers. < 1295368622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that inspires confidence < 1295368627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FileNotFound < 1295368647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in ), attempting to compare floating-point numbers is undefined behaviour if they happen to be exactly equal, unless one or both of them has multiple values at the time) < 1295368665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, "(in )" < 1295368670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean ( < 1295368678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1295368688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mental auto-bracket-balancer caught me out there < 1295368692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1295368719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do, say, float f = 4; float g = 4.5; f += (0 || 1); if (f > g) printf("f > g\n"); if (f < g) printf("f < g\n"); < 1295368721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get both lines to print < 1295368742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why is it that every language designer ends up inventing superposed variables eventually? < 1295368752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't invent them, I stole them from Perl 6 < 1295368759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always used to hate that I couldn't say, in PHP, ($x == (0 || 1 || 2)) < 1295368787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was necessary for something as simple as floating-point >= to not be as dangerous as gets < 1295368800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using it without superposing one of the variables /is/ gets-dangerous) < 1295368813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, in (, floating point numbers are infinite precisoin < 1295368813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? < 1295368820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: computable reals? < 1295368821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1295368823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the way that's achieved, is via calculating them lazily < 1295368833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm you do know that equality on computable reals is undecidable? < 1295368835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparisons are the only thing that force them < 1295368845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, it is undecidable, that's precisely why it's undefined behaviour < 1295368865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you attempt to convey to ais523 exactly what rabbit hole he's entered by using computable reals? :) < 1295368873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not a deep one at all < 1295368878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very deep one < 1295368882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can compute them to any number of decimal places < 1295368887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDECIDABILITY OF EQUALITY < 1295368891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I KNOW < 1295368900 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1295368904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YOU DO REALISE YOU BASICALLY NEED PROOFS TO DO THINGS PROPERLY < 1295368908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPITALS < 1295368913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, what > does is just keep calculating decimal places of both numbers until it finds a mismatch < 1295368929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /facepalm < 1295368930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is guaranteed to happen eventually if you superpose with addition of a nonzero number < 1295368945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't, well, I warned you you might get an infinite loop < 1295368948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, UNDECIDABILITY OF DECIMALS IF NOT INFINITE < 1295368960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed! < 1295368970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you cannot distinguish 1 from 0.9999999999999999999999999999999... < 1295368979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm aware of that < 1295368993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually just a limitation of the language, it's there explicitly as a trap for programmers < 1295369044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even if one number's on a knife-edge between 1 and 0.9 recurring, that doesn't block comparisons unless the other number is as well < 1295369050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it's undefined behaviour < 1295369112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you not just let me do something that's theoretically insane, then push all the problems onto the user and claim it's their fault? < 1295369126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH, FINE < 1295369137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you said it was meant to be more useful in practice :D < 1295369152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it /is/, for sufficient values of useful in practice < 1295369161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, sufficiently small < 1295369199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other things like arrays automatically expanding when you address outside or before them < 1295369210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all pointers being tied to a particular array < 1295369220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and all variables being implicitly inside a 1-element array) < 1295369233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds useful, but messes up some corner cases with pointer arithmetic quite badly < 1295369244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly involving multidimensional arrays < 1295369341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1295369363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i thought you said it was meant to be more useful in practice :D elliott: well, it /is/, for sufficient values of useful in practice umm, sufficiently small < 1295369364 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :270) i thought you said it was meant to be more useful in practice :D elliott: well, it /is/, for sufficient values of useful in practice umm, sufficiently small < 1295369402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically the strategy I'm going with is similar to the one the C++ committee is using < 1295369412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of a feature that's at least mostly backwards-compatible < 1295369415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you're going to be insane all on your own? < 1295369420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just add it without worrying about the implications < 1295369442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in this case, insufficiently many negative implications are a drawback < 1295369497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, luckily the C course is mostly over, although I still have two exercises to mark < 1295369511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this term I'm still teaching Java, but also GPGPU programming < 1295369521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I don't know that much about, but which I know more about than the students I'm helping < 1295369528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them, at least < 1295369542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what did you actually /do/ when they did that sizeof thing? < 1295369553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, there appears to be no ogdl parser for ruby < 1295369567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sizeof of a function argument in order to determine how large the array in question is? < 1295369585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing but shake my head sadly afterwards and tell everyone on IRC, as that was one of the other tutors < 1295369588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I mean writing sizeof instead of size_t? < 1295369597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think I gave up < 1295369604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, pointed out the mistake < 1295369613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gave up when they said it had to be incorrect because netbeans didn't autocomplete it < 1295369614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are a better man than I. < 1295369665 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1295369699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, Ruby supports using a newline as the q delimiter, does perl? < 1295369704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):002:0> %q < 1295369704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):003:0' a < 1295369704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):004:0> < 1295369704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> "a" < 1295369743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let me check < 1295369775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it skips the newline and interprets the next character as the q delimiter instead < 1295369787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that you can actually use letters as a q delimeter that way < 1295369821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, oerjan: can you kick the user that's about to come in? I want to test something < 1295369830 0 :hellobar!~hellobar@91.105.75.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295369837 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm elliott and I'm EVIL, kick me < 1295369842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be hilarious if a newbie joined just then < 1295369852 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a newbie! And EVIL < 1295369872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your invisible friend is hacking your router again! < 1295369876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn! < 1295369877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kick him! < 1295369925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Please? < 1295369984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm only about 20% of the way through PHP's documentation for the array type < 1295369988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it be that complicated? < 1295370001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you an op in here? < 1295370006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1295370008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1295370017 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295370040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently in PHP you get to choose what index your arrays start from when creating them < 1295370049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 0.5, I suppose < 1295370063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan oerjan oerjan < 1295370105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tell oerjan to kick hellobar < 1295370110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll listen to you! < 1295370117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I do such a thing? < 1295370121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, your invisible friend has hacked your router before? < 1295370138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1295370143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because I need to see for Herobrine, dammit < 1295370154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i could make shutup come back in here and get it kicked < 1295370156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herobrine isn't actually here < 1295370192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he's going to come in to log < 1295370195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm revamping the impl first < 1295370199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do thinsg like support multiple channels < 1295370201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1295370213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, are you personally logging this in herobrine format? < 1295370220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, you won't get the example you're looking for < 1295370235 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295370248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm using nc, duh < 1295370260 0 :hellobar!~hellobar@91.105.75.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295370262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain why you pinged out, at least < 1295370264 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KICK ME < 1295370274 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KICKMEKICKMEKICKEMCIEMCIKECIEMCIE OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN < 1295370290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, does the text you see when you're kicked compare to the text you see when someone else is kicked? < 1295370310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what if someone decides to take over your computer via a remote terminal keybinding injection attack? < 1295370343 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to see what it looks like when you get parted from a channel, so Herobrine can rejoin < 1295370349 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not necessarily because of being kicked) < 1295370358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just part it, then? < 1295370371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part command works over nc too... < 1295370379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well < 1295370382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1295370383 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295370387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just /cycle < 1295370389 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you *are parted*, not when you *part* < 1295370394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1295370424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any cause but a kick for that? < 1295370430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1295370430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295370434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1295370531 0 :hellobar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1295370671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more Amethyst design: < 1295370690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1295370720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: every object has a URI. usually this URI will just be a URN like urn:amethyst:... < 1295370725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ... is, say, a sha-512 hash of the object < 1295370733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by object i mean map < 1295370738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1295370744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... unusual < 1295370745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow? < 1295370746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1295370748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1295370766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even think of applying hash-based URLs to that < 1295370770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, the syntax <...> (or perhaps (...)) parses (not evaluates) to the object of that URI < 1295370786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance, say version 1.0 of the standard library is urn:amethyst:deadbeef < 1295370789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1295370789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though a while ago, I was wondering about a programming language where everything was pointers into a massive hash table that took up all of memory < 1295370801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stdlib: < 1295370807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will let you use the Stdlib map < 1295370821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the interpreter doesn't have something with that hash cached, that's a parse error < 1295370824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's like @ < 1295370825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anywya < 1295370826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyway < 1295370843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it should be urn:sha512: < 1295370846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1295370846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1295370856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, forget the urn thing < 1295370857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be < 1295370860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stdlib: < 1295370863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now consider < 1295370873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you want to point the interpreter to tell it where it can get a hold of that map? < 1295370875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy: < 1295370876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that require bruteforcing hashes? < 1295370887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it only works if the interpreter has something with the hash deadbeef cached < 1295370892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, boring < 1295370894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., in /usr/lib/amethyst/deadbeef < 1295370896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shut up < 1295370900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1295370909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stdlib: < 1295370912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that URL would contain Amethyst code < 1295370916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the resulting object must hash to deadbeef < 1295370926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is shorthand for < 1295370943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this also provides security against tampering < 1295370948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the stdlib is changed to have malware in it, the verification will fail < 1295370956 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan < 1295370964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also makes it impossible to upgrade a system ever again? < 1295370964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you kick /hellobar/ < 1295370967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has now left < 1295370968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1295370969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1295370971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but-- what if you only want a certain API, not a defined implementation? < 1295370974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: easy < 1295370975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1295370980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan < 1295370981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you use an "API hash" < 1295370999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which is, essentially, a hash of a hash like: < 1295371018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[SomeName:[open:[]; close:[]]] < 1295371026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then you'd do < 1295371028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SomeName: ... < 1295371031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and it'd have open and close in it < 1295371033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd specify it like < 1295371041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you're currently hashing hashtables < 1295371046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and abbreviating both to "hash" < 1295371050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not hashtables, they're trees < 1295371052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a map like: < 1295371053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is making the conversation more confusing than it should be < 1295371057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now consider < 1295371058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ordered maps? < 1295371062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, possibly... < 1295371064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SomeName: ~deadbeef < 1295371070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1295371079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have saf98y495jgkz cached locally < 1295371088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its object evaluates to have meta-info (every map has a meta-map) like this: < 1295371098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]@[provides:[SomeName:[open:[]; close:[]]]] < 1295371104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that provide thing hashes to deadbeef < 1295371109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that would be used as the implementation < 1295371110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashish tables are r/trees < 1295371115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardy har har < 1295371118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or you could say < 1295371123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SomeName: ~deadbeef < 1295371128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which means, if you don't have a preferred implementation, use this one < 1295371152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how enterprisey < 1295371155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, note how module names are *unbreakably* unique, modulo the hash function < 1295371171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh come on, that's not enterprisey, that's hideously impractical but fu < 1295371172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fun < 1295371226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions otoh are just functionally unique < 1295371238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually this is basically enchilada's system but modified < 1295371251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in enchilada you can do < 1295371253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(P1asW6BED++fOl4o86DsE5DVYdU=) == 1 2 3 < 1295371254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the interp knows where to find that hash < 1295371259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mine, I just turn it into a module system using URIs < 1295371274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just tried to interpret that hash as Ursala < 1295371276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see, if you were Sgeo, you'd be going "oooooh", and that's my design goal < 1295371277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ha < 1295371286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failed, mostly because I don't know Ursala well enough < 1295371322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my program needs a total restructuring to do this < 1295371337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're actually /writing/ Amethyst? < 1295371358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, Herobrine < 1295371366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, what a relief < 1295371370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes, I plan to! < 1295371378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the horrible thing is, some of these ideas are actually /good/ < 1295371392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance, functions as just maps with symbolic keys < 1295371411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's the case with all esolangs < 1295371415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is full of bad ideas < 1295371420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good ideas < 1295371422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1295371423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it has even more bad ideas < 1295371424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that too!" < 1295371429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that balance it out < 1295371449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to see modern INTERCAL's control structure in something that didn't have such hideously unusable expressions < 1295371484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "fib: ^[0:0; 1:1; [+ n 2]: [+ [fib [+ n 1]] [fib n]]]" < 1295371492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ^ is to quote it < 1295371499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's syntax < 1295371501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no quote function < 1295371508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because every [f ...] is a regular function application < 1295371513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe him, he's just fibbing you < 1295371520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, [+ n 2] evaluates to [+ n 2], because n is symbolic < 1295371520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote being a function rarely makes sense anyway < 1295371529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's like a in Underload < 1295371532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the right-hand-side just evaluates to [+ [fib [+ n 1]] [fib n]] < 1295371536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because n is symbolic < 1295371536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just requoting something that's already data < 1295371537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you do < 1295371539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[fib 3] < 1295371546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs out of options, finds the symbolic one < 1295371554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fills in "1" for n, thus binding n to 1 < 1295371556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looks at the right hand side < 1295371557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is now < 1295371564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+ [fib [+ 1 1]] [fib 1]] < 1295371567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it evaluates < 1295371581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this also means that all of a function's body which /can/ be constant-folded /is/ < 1295371585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the body is actually evaluated < 1295371598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, doing italics like that is my thing! < 1295371603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mine too < 1295371609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, at least one Underload interp works like that < 1295371615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interestingly, this can actually memoise automatically trivially < 1295371625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, when you resort to a symbolic expression, store the new result in the tree < 1295371676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, I think you can avoid that evaluation < 1295371711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: ^[x: ^[+ ,x 1]]; test2: ^[x: [eval [test x]]] < 1295371712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1295371726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: obviously, ^[+ ,x 1] -> ^[+ ,x 1], because, again, symbolic < 1295371733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, esolang idea: an esolang which is relatively simple and not unusual at all, and easy to implement, perhaps a BF derivative < 1295371735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you fill an x in, it turns into the _map_ [+ 3 1] for instance < 1295371737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't evaluate it < 1295371738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1295371743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the only unusual feature being that programs aren't actually run < 1295371747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[test 3] is-the-same-code-as ^[+ 3 1] < 1295371749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1295371751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a correct interp just reads the program and ignores it < 1295371762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although programs still have their semantics defined < 1295371769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test2's [eval [test x]] becomes [eval ^[+ ,x 1]] < 1295371772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then ... eh, I'm confused myself < 1295371772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiat < 1295371773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wait < 1295371777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expansion _doesn't_ happen at compile-time < 1295371780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the function is quoted, of course < 1295371830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this language is very confusing < 1295371850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that could be said about basically any esolang, and a lot of non-eso langs too < 1295371864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not going to get anywhere near as confusing as Feather < 1295371877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I ran into the same "issue" MISC did and fixed it in I think the same way < 1295371892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there an esolang called MISC? < 1295371894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you think that 2 is (say) [[]:1] = [[]:[[]:[]]] < 1295371897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's not that one < 1295371899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some OISC variant, IIRC < 1295371900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is < 1295371906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could define a variable named [[]:[[]:[]]] < 1295371910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because variable definitions are just map entries < 1295371912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1295371915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is _actually_ ^[[]:[[]:[]]] < 1295371916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it quotes < 1295371921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then how do you reference the variable named 2? < 1295371923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1295371925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[eval 2] < 1295371930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's right: [eval 2] != 2 < 1295371938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously < 1295371946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually, [eval 2] = 0, in fact, because 0 = [] = nil, and that's what an undefined lookup results in < 1295371948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[eval x] != x barring a huge coincidence < 1295371956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (eq? (eval 2) 2) in Scheme < 1295371968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because (eval 'x) is the same as x, and 2 is the same as '2 < 1295371973 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@178.128.36.99.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1295371975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eval doesn't operate on strings here < 1295371977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it operates on maps < 1295371979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homoiconic, remember < 1295371981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how INTERCAL < 1295371986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that intercal??? < 1295371992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it initialises #4 to 4, etc < 1295371997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1295372003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what Scheme's doing there, setting constants to their own values < 1295372023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason why a constant's value should be equal to the constant itself... < 1295372039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, I'm an awful person, I looked at the MISC guy's homepage, saw "MacSword: A bible reading program, for Mac OS X.", and my mind got indignant < 1295372045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is more right than I'd like him to be < 1295372056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, one issue with ^ < 1295372060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is for instance < 1295372063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine x = ^[1 2 3] < 1295372064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ^x? < 1295372067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^[1 2 3], obviously < 1295372068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1295372071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that non-homoiconic? < 1295372075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ^x is x < 1295372081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I mean < 1295372082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1295372084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ^^[1 2 3] < 1295372085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1295372086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's < 1295372091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[eval ^^,x] < 1295372092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if erm < 1295372093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*erm < 1295372095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's < 1295372097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[eval ^^,x] < 1295372098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1295372100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x=^[1 2 3] < 1295372102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homoiconicity doesn't imply you don't have syntax errors < 1295372108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1295372113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why should ^^[1 2 3] be a syntax error < 1295372118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every expression should be quotable < 1295372125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason ''(1 2 3) is in Lisp < 1295372147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting's a compile-time thing, not a run-time thing < 1295372152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ''(12 3) is NOT a syntax error in Lisp, dude... < 1295372161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1295372168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it results in the list (quote (1 2 3)) < 1295372195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just stupid < 1295372196 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1295372208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is quote pretending to be a function at all < 1295372214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1295372228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realise you like to define "Lisp" as "my pet language almost, but not entirely, unlike Lisp", but that is not relevant. < 1295372235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pretending", honestly. < 1295372268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, (quote (+ 1 2 3)) would obviously return the same thing as (quote 6) if quote were a function < 1295372277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's not pretending to be a function... < 1295372277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But anyway, if ^^[1 2 3] is a syntax error, presumably there is no object that corresponds to the syntax "^[1 2 3]" < 1295372282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo, the language is not homoiconic < 1295372295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (f ...) is not just function application in lisp, so there is no pretending < 1295372296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1295372298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: But anyway, if ^^[1 2 3] is a syntax error, presumably there is no object that corresponds to the syntax "^[1 2 3]" < 1295372298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a special form, like if and setq. < 1295372298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ergo, the language is not homoiconic < 1295372300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :address that < 1295372302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I give up trying to figure out what homiconic actually means < 1295372304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Talking about CL here.) < 1295372309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if is a special form? < 1295372314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ...yes? < 1295372326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else could it possibly be? < 1295372329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: don't talk to ais523 about Lisp, he becomes a troll < 1295372330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setq I can understand, it's a weird abbreviation for set ' that doesn't actually save characters < 1295372348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cond an actual function, at least? < 1295372352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how can you write a program that transforms an arbitrary Amethyst program into another? < 1295372358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you saying that ^[foo ^x] is invalid? < 1295372364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's /ridiculous < 1295372365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1295372365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not < 1295372373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what object does ^[foo ^x] result in? < 1295372376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what map < 1295372380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in CL, if is a special form and cond is a macro that uses if < 1295372381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0:foo, 1:???] < 1295372382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[foo ^x] < 1295372388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so why is ^^[1 2 3] a syntax error < 1295372393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than resulting in ^[1 2 3] < 1295372396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: CL is not defined that way < 1295372399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are special forms < 1295372404 0 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1295372406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, because it's on the LHS < 1295372406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? Huh. < 1295372407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special forms can be implemented as macros < 1295372413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1295372420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, so tell me. < 1295372423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what object does [[1 2 3] 4] result in? < 1295372428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1 2 3] 4] < 1295372431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [foo ^x] is not valid < 1295372434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ^x is not a map < 1295372439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it is, show me it, written in map form < 1295372449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [[1 2 3] 4] results in the same object as ^[[1 2 3] 4]? < 1295372455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1295372458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets evaluated < 1295372458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1295372461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are IGNORING my point < 1295372469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of homoiconicity is that you don't need to condition on what type of node your transformer is receiving < 1295372472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are two data types < 1295372472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maps < 1295372473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quotes < 1295372478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then this is completely destroyed < 1295372481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1295372489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand part of this, though < 1295372496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^[[1 2 3] 4] results in [[1 2 3] 4], right? < 1295372500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1295372508 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1295372513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1 2 3] 4] tries to apply 1 to 2 3, and then the result to 4 < 1295372516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why should quote not be nestable? < 1295372519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will almost certainly result in nil < 1295372520 0 :Vorpal_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Vorpal < 1295372522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: please, stop confusing the issue < 1295372526 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this hardware is haunted or something < 1295372530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it depends on what quote means, which I'm not sure I understand < 1295372558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What I'm saying is that ^x _must_ be the same as [quote x] or similar. < 1295372575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1295372575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or homoiconicity is ruined and the language's purity is completely gone, it introduces a huge swathe of special-cases. < 1295372578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language are you talking about? < 1295372581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amethyst < 1295372583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Amethyst, and don't bother googling < 1295372590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the language I will entrap Sgeo in forever < 1295372593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has hotswapping! < 1295372598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1295372621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Amber, Amethyst. Hm a pattern! < 1295372624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: consider this program transformer, that lets you write RPN < 1295372638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does [a [b c]] in Amethyst work much like (a (b c)) in Lisp? as in, is [b c] evaluated and then a evaluated with the result, or is a evaluated with [b c], or something else? < 1295372647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [rpn ^[[1 2 *] 3 4 +]] --> [+ [* 1 2] 3 4] < 1295372650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except it turns out Amber isn't really stone. And for entrapping Amber would be more suitable. ;P < 1295372652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can easily write this: < 1295372703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rpn: ^[prog: [if [== [first prog] ^quote] prog [cons [last prog] [map rpn [all-but-last prog]]]]]]]]]]]]lots of ]s < 1295372721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if ^x is not the same as [quote x], then we can't process all code as one data structure < 1295372726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and homoiconicity is ruined < 1295372729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1295372737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, [a [b c]] is the same as (a (b c)) pretty much < 1295372740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm trying to work out how [quote x] can possibly quote anything at all < 1295372744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally you can do keyword arguments like this < 1295372746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a foo:3] < 1295372747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because surely x would be evaluated first? < 1295372753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, because it's a special-case < 1295372758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1295372769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the same way processing ^ differently to any other character, or [, or ], or :, or ; is a special case < 1295372771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that just defeat the whole point? < 1295372789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think you can remove the special case by making the lang call-by-name < 1295372790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe it makes the point less perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than not being able to nest quotes! < 1295372799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the Io solution < 1295372801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pass all arguments unevaluated < 1295372808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the only purpose of call-by-name seems to be to remove special cases < 1295372811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo liked that, so maybe I'll do it :) < 1295372824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so then it'd be "quote: [x: x]", right? < 1295372844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, you seem to have changed syntax < 1295372847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, call by name? as opposed to call by address? < 1295372849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote works just fine call-by-name < 1295372856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know what call-by-name actually is? < 1295372857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: show me an impl of quote in call-by-name < 1295372859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1295372866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: jfWikipediai < 1295372888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ioke is currently being spammed by a bot < 1295372898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, he's here! < 1295372902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Prefix notation or postfix notation, which do you prefer. < 1295372910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: \f -> \x -> f x < 1295372915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both! < 1295372916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, _what_ < 1295372921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Incorrect answer < 1295372951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What were the DISLIKEABLE things you saw in MISC? < 1295372954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because all quoting does is prevent something being evaluated instantly, right? < 1295372954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should describe what I like in a name < 1295372960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Googleability < 1295372966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, I really screwed up there < 1295372969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: in a _name_? answer my damn question! < 1295372976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's either the same as (\f -> f), or you broke eta-expansion, congrats < 1295373025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eta-expansion is broken anyway in a lang with side effects, I muddled up quote with something else < 1295373068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function definions seemed a bit long-winded. Lambda should probably be called something like \, and it should come with a function that takes the same arguments lambda takes, plus a name, and puts it in the environment. Unless I'm misunderstanding, and there's no way to put functions in the environment < 1295373071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is Googleability the only factor? < 1295373090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in a name? < 1295373119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the The programming language < 1295373178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here's a squaring fucntion in Amethyst: [x: [* x x]] < 1295373180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*function < 1295373201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here's a squaring function in Amethyst except that squaring 2 gets you -3 because why not: [-2: -3; x: [* x x]] < 1295373202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU LIKING IT < 1295373225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about multi-argument functions? Also, that example confuses me < 1295373241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why does it confuse you? < 1295373284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1295373322 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1295373322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because -2 is a constant that the function treats specially, but x is just a variable name for use inside the thing < 1295373329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why is it call-by-name? < 1295373331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295373346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't you worry your head about that, we haven't solidified the details. But it means less special cases. < 1295373349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, that's due to symbolicness! < 1295373360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1295373367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In fact, that function is the same as a map. < 1295373371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's just an infinite, lazy map. < 1295373400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Whenever a value is looked up, it'll decide it's not -2, notice the symbolic entry works if we set x=4 or whatever our input is, and evaluate the right-hand side with that value substituted. < 1295373403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does [-2: -3; x: [* x x]; y: [y - 1]] do?/ < 1295373404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The best thing is, it then remembers! < 1295373406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is: < 1295373410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x: intensive computation] < 1295373414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling it for any x will then cache the result. < 1295373417 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295373421 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295373428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means that a naive Fibonacci implementation is O(n), not O(fib(n)). < 1295373430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, how would you extend loggic to handle multiple channels? < 1295373453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not sure. One possibility is that would never look at the y case, because the map is ordered. < 1295373483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have it join multiple channels, split them later < 1295373494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Another possibility is that it would be a syntax error, or the same as [-2: -3; y: [- y 1]], because the latter overrides the former at parse time. < 1295373506 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1295373512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nick-change methods might be a little problematic as they only happen once, though, and aren't pegged to the channel < 1295373531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, I figured out how I did quote in my Unlambda to Underlambda compiler < 1295373546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Did I mention this has macros? < 1295373558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it by adding an unquote function to every single other command, with quote being the only function that didn't have it < 1295373568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making quote not a special case is hard; but making unquote not a special case is easy < 1295373568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1295373583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quote literally was an eta-expanded identity there < 1295373588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In fact, call semantics are like Io and Ioke. < 1295373596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Functions get the unevaluated code as their parameter. < 1295373628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Did I mention it's lazy? < 1295373633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Let me tell you about the module system now. < 1295373641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Naming collisions are *completely impossible*. < 1295373656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE? < 1295373667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1295373702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Every object has a URI. < 1295373709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Usually, this URI just looks like urn:sha512:longhashgoeshere. < 1295373728 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE ASSEMBLER < 1295373729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But if you publish an object (map) on, say, the web, by putting its source code up you can refer to that object with that URI. < 1295373737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ssh, I'm stopping Sgeo ever using another language again < 1295373749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here's how you refer to an object at a URI. < 1295373771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (hashgoeshere|http://amethyst.org/stdlib/1.0) < 1295373772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance: < 1295373775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about that problem you previously noted... oh < 1295373778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stdlib: (hashgoeshere|http://amethyst.org/stdlib/1.0) < 1295373787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: This checks that the stdlib has the correct hash. < 1295373795 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the language is "assembly", and the tool you assemble it with is an "assembler"? I use them interchangeably < 1295373796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence me saying oh < 1295373803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But if the implementation has it cached, it will use that instead. < 1295373807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: For instance, you could just say: < 1295373809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stdlib: (hashgoeshere) < 1295373817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the implementation has that hash (as it would, for the standard library), it will use it. < 1295373821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can also be used as a database. < 1295373827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the language is assembly language or assembler; the tool is always an assembler < 1295373833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But! What if a bug in the stdlib was fixed without changing the interface? < 1295373836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "an assembly" is a .NET-related term < 1295373847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: This is handled with an "API hash". < 1295373860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: An API hash for the standard library might look like this, assuming the only functions in it were foo and bar: < 1295373868 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thoguht you said... This is handled with an API pattern < 1295373875 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like WTF, he's using "patterns"? < 1295373879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1295373882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: [[Stdlib; 1]: [foo: []; bar: []]] < 1295373892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The _hash of this map_ is the "API hash". < 1295373901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Say it's foobarbaz. You could use the stdlib like this: < 1295373902 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sweet, then I've been right all along when coding in assembler < 1295373908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stdlib: (~foobarbaz) < 1295373908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1295373913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stdlib: (~foobarbaz|http://amethyst.org/stdlib/1.0) < 1295373923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The integer in [Stdlib; 1] would be incremented every time a breaking API change is made. < 1295373938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But, you say, how would a module declare that it supports this interface? Easy. < 1295373945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You know how in MISC, every map has another map attached to it, as metadata? < 1295373962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1295373971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The same applies to Amethyst. Let's call the map [[Stdlib; 1]: [foo: []; bar: []]] "StdlibAPI", for conciseness. < 1295373992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You would write: [...the stdlib implementation...]@[provides: [StdlibAPI; AnotherAPI; Etc]] < 1295374004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Amethyst would check that it does indeed obey the API requested. < 1295374018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: All this is done sandboxed, so a malicious library (if you just specify an API hash and not a map hash) can't do anything the program doesn't let it. < 1295374039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will this language ever be implemented? < 1295374043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1295374057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Have you FALLEN IN LOVE yet, or do I need to tell you about the HOTSWAPPING? < 1295374081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to hear about it < 1295374099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can hotswap. Any questions? < 1295374167 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@79.103.17.174.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1295374168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here's something you might like that I'm considering: Infix math by default. < 1295374177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, [2 + 2] == 4. < 1295374188 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if I could easily and sens.. actually < 1295374195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't see how that would work < 1295374196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all < 1295374214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'll explain it simply. < 1295374220 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am holding in my hand one of those many Apple display adaptors. Someone explain to me its existence. This one is a DVI-to-DVI adapter. Yes, that's right ... one end DVI male, one end DVI female, it is in essence a 1-inch DVI extension. It's not even like either side is some weird Apple I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-DVI, both are normal DVI. < 1295374240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The name "2" is bound to a function that takes a function, and another object, and does [function 2 object]. < 1295374241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is it wired straight? < 1295374243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might change the pinout < 1295374243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Amazing. < 1295374260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can imagine a patch to null-modem serial adapter which would have that sort of pinout < 1295374265 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That ... is a horrifying possibility. I don't really have the necessary components to test that theory. < 1295374266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Since 2 is actually shorthand for ^[the map that represents 2], and ^ is quote, when you normally mention 2, it just turns into... well, 2! < 1295374276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But when you apply it as a function, it gets looked up as a name. < 1295374282 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to take it home and test it with my computer. < 1295374284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a couple of wires and a multimeter can test it quite easily < 1295374298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm a computer scientist, not an electrical engineer :P < 1295374300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's... interesting < 1295374313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm sorry, do you not like it? I can remove it if you want. < 1295374320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you tell me what you would like to see in a language? < 1295374401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: BTW, just like in Enchilada, INFORMATION CANNOT BE DESTROYYYED < 1295374411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, sorry, I accidentally held shift down. < 1295374420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know how that works in Enchilada < 1295374427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even begin to understand it < 1295374427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't :P < 1295374435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Is "it" = "Enchilada"? < 1295374455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "it" is "how Enchilada works" I guess < 1295374474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1295374493 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1295374523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: ? < 1295374548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :):) < 1295374559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: that's the same smiley as (:( ) < 1295374561 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1295374577 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to troll reddit getting 504s F£WTFW < 1295374589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :504? < 1295374605 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to play minecraft getting 502s < 1295374658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to Wikipedia, it happens when you contact one of a site's proxies, but the proxy couldn't contact the actual data source < 1295374672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Enchilada? < 1295374684 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/f4kc0/you_are_never_asked_to_prove_a_negative_then_why/ < 1295374692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: thing < 1295374697 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pizza with depth a and radius z has a volume of pi z z a. < 1295374709 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit best questions of the year right there < 1295374723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: oh god why would you ever post that < 1295374768 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im interesetd in what people will ahve to say < 1295374789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1295374886 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may just be forced to abandon #ioke < 1295374916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what's spamming it < 1295374926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IokeHurricane < 1295374936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which seems to believe it's supposed to be opped < 1295374952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once a minute < 1295374962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if there are no ops available to kick it, go into #freenode and ask for help < 1295374967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These logs were automatically created by IokeStormBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot." < 1295374973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the naming similiarity < 1295374975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's a legit bot < 1295374976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*similarity < 1295374979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really is meant to be opped < 1295374982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1295374983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the Java IRC LogBot"? is there only one? < 1295374996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a malfunctioning bot is bad for a channel even if legitimate < 1295375009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like anyone else is even in the channel < 1295375010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello = method(name, < 1295375010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hello, #{name}!" println) < 1295375016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALLOW ME TO REWRITE THIS IN AMETHYST < 1295375029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello: [name: < 1295375038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [say "hello, ${name}!"]] < 1295375055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: MOST BEAUTIFUL THING??? < 1295375068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub hello ($name) { say "hello, $name!"; } < 1295375107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: valid perl 6! < 1295375113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Yes, but only because Jesus once said, Blessed are the refried, for they shall inherit the southwest United States. < 1295375121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you think the perfect expression of < 1295375121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hello = method(name, < 1295375121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hello, #{name}!" println) < 1295375122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is? < 1295375125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please type it out for me. < 1295375130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, yes, I just translated your code into perl 6 < 1295375227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1295375250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1295375266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Try. Try! < 1295375295 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First off, just [hello: whatever] how is it clear that that map globally assigns stuff? < 1295375376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm not asking for Amethyst. < 1295375384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking for how you would want to write that function. < 1295375414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, gah, I can't think of any sane way to handle nickname changes in a logbot < 1295375417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably similar to Ioke, except making it clearer that the second argument is code < 1295375421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there isn't one < 1295375428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does clog do it? < 1295375432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, speculate < 1295375444 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1295375450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the deceased IokeStormBot do it? < 1295375458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it constantly keeps a membership list for each channel, when it gets a NICK message it places a nickname change message in each channel that nick was a member of < 1295375484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait, I can do that < 1295375489 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295375503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make Herobrine do NAMES #channel every time the server pings it < 1295375507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to avoid desynchronisation < 1295375633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, logging is Hard < 1295375675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hard enough that I'm going to implement botte first < 1295375765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW WHAT I SHOULD WRITE BOTTE IN < 1295375767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMETHYST < 1295375858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: write Amethyst in Feather, using scapegoat as your VCS < 1295375860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523, what's the perfect database system, < 1295375862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*system < 1295375872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, depends on what you want to use it for, I suppose < 1295375907 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001f5b00390f-CM001e6b2335dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295375910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I basically want something like Datalog :P < 1295375926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Datalog then < 1295375930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whatever that is) < 1295375937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's Prolog, but sub-TC < 1295375942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an efficient algorithm for finding results < 1295375947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a Prolog database < 1295375951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so going the other way from Proud < 1295376010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time (grep butts big | wc -l) < 1295376010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :130 < 1295376011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.165s < 1295376014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(big is the combined clog logs) < 1295376025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, doing this with, say, Ruby, even without regexps, produces something much slower < 1295376032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't really just use a linear array < 1295376071 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1295376362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should make Herobrine do NAMES #channel every time the server pings it <-- err < 1295376374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just track PART, JOIN, QUIT, KICK? < 1295376398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Except that each day is in a different file. < 1295376403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could make it do NAMES on each new day. < 1295376508 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do so many beginners write [x:xs] < 1295376571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would work. And after reconnect of course < 1295376586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: VALID CLEAN < 1295376598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if, in a thousand years, there end up being genuine worshippers of Inglip? < 1295376619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do the same for TOPIC, just in case. < 1295376640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could just load history when you need to work out who was there? < 1295376645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more work though < 1295376675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and for internal state it would presumably keep track of that elsewhere when running < 1295376756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The log bot is really dumb, it just responds to pings and logs to a file. < 1295376759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The formatter does all the grunt work. < 1295376867 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why is jmcarthur being .. like that? < 1295376879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "what" < 1295376907 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1295376910 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter < 1295377076 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-53-26.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1295377216 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1295377235 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295377743 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295378058 0 :Herobrine!~Herobrine@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295378077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what are your thoughts on Nimrod? < 1295378088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have none as it looks boring. the variable naming thing is whack < 1295378430 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295379037 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295379046 0 :Herobrine!~Herobrine@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295379312 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295379330 0 :Herobrine!~Herobrine@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295379435 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295379446 0 :Herobrine!~Herobrine@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295379559 0 :acetoline!~acetoline@125-237-12-196.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1295379628 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you guys be interested in a 2D war game where you program insects in Brainfuck? < 1295379648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1295379654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds interesting enough. < 1295379669 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK because I'm making one... < 1295379720 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the insects are not real insects... They will give birth to other insects though, that's why I used the metaphor. :-P < 1295379726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I for one welcome our new insect overlords < 1295379734 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1295379791 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295379836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too bad that the only sexual lifeform in existence is insects :P < 1295379856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, insects don't "give birth") < 1295379866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Also, they're DIRECTORIES. < 1295379917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esoteric programming languages | Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | Logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D or http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ (formatted) < 1295379929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY'D YOU LAME UP THE TOPIC AGAIN < 1295379954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: EXCUSE ME WE HAVE FORMATTED LOGS NOW THIS IS GOOD? < 1295379960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, it was because we could possibly have had a visitor. < 1295379964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was justifying me getting the name Herobrine from its owner. < 1295379975 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, but you got rid of our support group :( < 1295379978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which involved "mumble mumble #esoteric offshoot channel Minecraft". < 1295379986 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey, I call them directories too, why the misdirected rage? lol < 1295379988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I DID NOT WANT MR. RANDOM NICKOWNER TO GET A BAD IMPRESSION OF US < 1295380021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably convert the clog logs to the format of this sometime. < 1295380023 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Oh, I had forgotten who I was arguing with about that on the Book of Faces, thought it was you X-P < 1295380039 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... I call them directories because that's how I learned to call them in Microsoft's MS-DOS, so that probably doesn't help you :) < 1295380057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to Apple's MS-DOS? < 1295380078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295380119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir "a folder that is not a poorly named directory" < 1295380167 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295380263 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkDIR < 1295380268 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not mkFOL < 1295380275 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295380275 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or mkFOLDIR :P ) < 1295380340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkfoldl' < 1295380668 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295380695 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295380740 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was stressing the "Microsoft"ness of it.. which I think is the true reason he doesn't like "folder" lol < 1295380761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor WORKED for Microsoft, that's why he loves FOLDERS. < 1295380777 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he worked for ms... must disown < 1295380789 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worked for Microsoft RESEARCH < 1295380794 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. I worked for ms.. guess that cancels out :( < 1295380804 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: NEVER AGAIN < 1295380827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took tech support calls for win9x < 1295380845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Ha ha, Gregor was higher up the Microsoft pecking order than you-uu < 1295380853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor was a research monkey, you were a telephone monkey. < 1295380857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ballmer is just a monkey.) < 1295380878 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a goood paying job while I was going thru school, no real regrets < 1295380887 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-o < 1295380889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295380898 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1295380919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Gregor was 4 when he worked at MS Research. < 1295380927 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g230230242.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1295380934 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so he is like 5 or 6 now? < 1295380934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just looks abnormally old for his age, which is why he looks 80 now; he's actually only 20-something. < 1295380943 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1295380946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that right, Gregor? Or should I say: GRANDPA? < 1295380949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he worked for MS Research last year? < 1295380961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, 16+n years ago for n < 10. < 1295380990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295380994 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295381011 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh.. stupid Java.. just frigging flush < 1295381012 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. n is a value between 0 and 1 even < 1295381039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Gregor is just 21. thousand years old < 1295381043 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any opinions on the AVR family of the CPUs? < 1295381052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not CPUs, system on a chip rather < 1295381056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we done loonying me yet? :P < 1295381074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you taken your meds lately, gramps? < 1295381078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No opinion :P < 1295381154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no? What ISAs do you have opinions on then? And I mean apart from "sucks, go back to lisp machine style where it is tailored for high level language" < 1295381213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None, if you exclude that < 1295381228 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → food
< 1295381247 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you don't think ARM is better than x86 for example? < 1295381260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I guess. < 1295381354 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript is better than ARM. < 1295381366 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295381390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MIPSJS < 1295381408 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 is the ultimate < 1295381419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I SEE WUT U DID THAR < 1295381424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6501 man, I had it on vinyl < 1295381443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that existed. < 1295381447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 6502 is a 6501 with the pins re-arranged following a lawsuit by Motorola over the 6501's pin arrangement." < 1295381456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO RETRO < 1295381459 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1295381470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it BEFORE they sold out and rearranged the pins. < 1295381479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lawsuit ... about pin arrangement. < 1295381496 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard that one, nice < 1295381563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I can't wait for Wayland to replace X. < 1295381650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: #esoteric-minecraft! BECAUSE THEY OPPRESS US IN HERE < 1295381714 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET YER MINECRAFT TALK OUTTA HERE YA MINECRAPPERS < 1295381726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : God I can't wait for Wayland to replace X. <-- what happened < 1295381734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that made you say that I meant < 1295381743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A lawsuit ... about pin arrangement. <-- yes old < 1295381747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read about it before < 1295381806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nothing much, I'm just still annoyed at X's really annoying design. < 1295381844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes < 1295381852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can you do wayland forwarding btw? < 1295381871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, but you can do gtk/qt forwarding. < 1295381876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I actually used X forwarding for seriouss applications like twice) < 1295381880 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(years ago) < 1295381881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, you will be able to roughly at the time their Wayland support will become stable.) < 1295381891 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can wait.. as I'm currently connected to my laptop with ssh -X and x2x < 1295381894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Wayland's position is that it belongs at the toolkit level to improve throughput and performance. < 1295381899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody has *written* it, but it's entirely possible to write a Wayland remote access system. < 1295381905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you sure? < 1295381909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good thinking < 1295381914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VNC-style, sure. < 1295381921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think you could do it per-window "generically". < 1295381925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: VNC or RDP style if you want it generic. < 1295381929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can have a VNC-headed Wayland server, and also can share your current Wayland session via VNC, then it has everything I need :P < 1295381932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1295381954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Basically write a Wayland compositor that shoves it out via your protocol of choice. < 1295381968 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever used x2x? it's nice < 1295381982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That still puts it decades ahead of Windows and Mac :P < 1295381986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite as nice as X for stuff using the actual X drawing primitives, but almost surely beats X otherwise. < 1295381988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't x2x just Synergy--? < 1295381998 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1295382000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Windows has VNC, dude :P < 1295382007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Seems so. < 1295382012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like I might have to start maintaining gnome-panel soon... < 1295382027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Remote X for GTK/Qt is *such a pain*, as they just treat the X display as a framebuffer...) < 1295382054 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With Remote Desktop (and the money to fork out for it), you can have a limited number of otherwise-headless sessions. On Mac OS X, to my knowledge, you simply can't. On anything X-based, arbitrary users can start VNC-headed X sessions just for giggles. It's not even comparable. < 1295382056 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you work with the gnome guys? < 1295382066 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Remote Desktop/Terminal Services or whatever/ < 1295382076 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1295382079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dood, there are third-party server/clients :P < 1295382085 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295382086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry calamari, but I can't answer questions if you're not here. < 1295382087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1295382095 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1295382106 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There are third-party servers/clients that share your CURRENT desktop, not establish new ones. (Unless I'm wrong, I've been out of Windows for a long time) < 1295382109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The idea is to create arbitrary *additional* sessions, which you straight up can't do on Windows without Remote Desktop. < 1295382112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: No, I don't, but gnome-panel is being deprecated in favour of the awful GNOME Shell monstrosity. I think they're replacing Nautilus too, although I'm not sure about that. < 1295382115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh. Right. < 1295382124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: And, well, I want to keep using gnome-panel. < 1295382131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't trust it not to bitrot :P < 1295382135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can still do to your heart's content on Unix. < 1295382152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with Wayland. < 1295382189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even makes it easier to create a VNC server. No need to deal with a 50-ton code base! < 1295382197 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you add a Run option on the gome menu while you're at it? < 1295382206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GNOME sucks) < 1295382213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Alt+F2 < 1295382247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: You can also add "Run Application..." to the panel as an applet :P < 1295382279 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I used to have that but my panel space is precious < 1295382287 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to try to remember alt-f2 < 1295382309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Apparently gnome-panel-control --run-dialog works if you have that installed, so you could just add that to the menu. < 1295382318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But strangely: < 1295382321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'gnome-panel-control' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: < 1295382321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install openbox < 1295382324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be some openbox tool. < 1295382329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably do it with DBus... < 1295382351 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry.. I was mostly just joking, I know that didn't come across well < 1295382365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I'm actually just curious myself :P < 1295382370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always assumed it was a separate program. < 1295382374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The program 'gnome-panel-control' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: < 1295382374 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sudo apt-get install openbox < 1295382376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the < 1295382380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "What the"? < 1295382387 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was one of the things that got me to ditch Gnome years ago.. well that and the menu didn't have a decent editor.. well and a lot of other stuff that was hosed < 1295382389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I'm lost for speech < 1295382394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why? < 1295382397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "gnome" "openbox" < 1295382400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Openbox works with GNOME panels and the like. < 1295382403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1295382405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: The menu has a decent editor now :P < 1295382423 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I decided to give gnome another chance on my laptop and it seems fine again < 1295382430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex seems interested in Nimrod < 1295382440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's used it, says pumpkin. < 1295382441 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still prefer kde 3.5 tho < 1295382443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who cares? < 1295382463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: This program pops up the run dialog: http://www.codefu.org/people/darkness/gnome-run.c ...how ridiculously overcomplicated < 1295382464 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott? < 1295382464 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how kde 3 gives me a ton of options :) < 1295382468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's circa 2004 though. < 1295382470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So YMMV. < 1295382473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pumpkin: Just responding to Sgeo... < 1295382475 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Notch < 1295382509 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1295382514 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1295382535 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1295382538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch: You're banned from #esoteric-minecraft :P < 1295382564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know there's a #minecraft channel on Freenode... < 1295382569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1295382572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and? < 1295382573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes, but it's smeggy. < 1295382576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1295382577 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys are java masters, right? why is the data sent from my java client socket not getting to the server until after I disconnect? some buffer that I need to flush? < 1295382580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He means to go in there as Notch. < 1295382582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: No, we all hate Java. < 1295382587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Notch < 1295382589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: But yeah, try flushing :P < 1295382594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch: Godspeed < 1295382605 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I flushed, don't like to leave things floating around < 1295382617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels guilty
< 1295382655 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not strictly Java.. it's Dalvik < 1295382670 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be they didn't implement flush < 1295382707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they think it's really him. < 1295382714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am lolling to death < 1295382753 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK mail tracker says my package is in the US, the US mail tracker says my package is in the UK. < 1295382897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they stopped believing rather quickly < 1295382913 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ssssshhhh! < 1295382945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, heh < 1295382976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, guess: it just left UK but hasn't arrived in US yet thus not registered there yet < 1295382994 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's been in this state since Thursday :P < 1295382995 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, neither country wants to own up to having it. < 1295382999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ouch < 1295383009 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or they sent it by ship. < 1295383009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what is it? (if I may ask) < 1295383011 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, actual ship. < 1295383013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch: That's what I was going to say. < 1295383024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, isn't that what they usually do? Send it by ship < 1295383024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: EVIL. In a box. With a little bit of hope in it. < 1295383029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mostly evil. < 1295383031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh pandora < 1295383033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... yes. In the 1800s. < 1295383060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which this is. < 1295383061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so they fly the packets now? Don't you need to pay extra for that? < 1295383077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They fly the TCP packets and what decade is Vorpal living in. < 1295383088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... < 1295383094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's either ground or air, there is no ship shipping. < 1295383104 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I seem to remember stickers saying "air mail" you had to put on the envelopes < 1295383106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shipipping < 1295383107 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, FWIW, I really hope they don't think I'm really Notch. < 1295383113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch: I think they do. < 1295383121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is douchebaggy < 1295383129 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, my hostname is "unaffiliated/Phantom_Hoover/x-" < 1295383137 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, if they believe me, they are idiots. < 1295383140 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hence fair game. < 1295383150 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Notch: I don't have a problem per se... I'm just so starstruck right now so I'm saying hi. :D < 1295383170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god this is the best. < 1295383171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you need to cross water to get to US. So that explains the speed. I never heard of a fast sea bed driving vehicle! < 1295383177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Seriously, they're believing without even checking if he's authenticated with services. < 1295383182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without even looking at his hostname. < 1295383185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them are believing it < 1295383186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are *idiots*. < 1295383188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are. < 1295383192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all < 1295383209 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1295383219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1295383221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1295383224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari < 1295383231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch: But ur my HEROO < 1295383235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He got banned :P < 1295383246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch: < 1295383247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :( < 1295383247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Banning Notch? What evil! < 1295383247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :') < 1295383247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :'(* < 1295383251 0 :Notch!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1295383270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (best update ever, btw.) < 1295383274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeb did it, motherfucker. < 1295383277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was before you got banned.) < 1295383288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought I just got banned by Jeb. < 1295383292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FYI, he changed his nick and didn't even bother changing his connected username. < 1295383292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : TkTech: huh. Werid that it was crashing then. < 1295383292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello Phantom_Hoover, aka fake notch. < 1295383303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, say hello back from me. < 1295383308 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the early 90's, we would have some adolescent fun with that.. could have chains of 5 or 6 people with the wrong nicks, trying to talk like the real person would < 1295383327 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And say that I didn't actually expect anyone not to notice my hostname. < 1295383327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I said " say hello back from me." < 1295383334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I left :P < 1295383335 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh EFNet < 1295383358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :( < 1295383370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reddit server thinks I'm a 4channer who took down the server for two minutes, #minecraft thinks Phantom_Hoover is an evil Notch impersonator, we're even :P < 1295383389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You could just /msg TkTech with it or something, unlikely you'll get unbanned though. < 1295383424 0 :TkTech!~TkTech@b07s48le.corenetworks.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295383424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the real jeb? < 1295383444 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Really, why would you troll the channel regardless? < 1295383448 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ;\ < 1295383453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is TkTech? < 1295383460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the guy who banned me. < 1295383473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1295383480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how he tracked me back to here... < 1295383494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I presume you have your channel list world visible < 1295383495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1295383498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, because I wanted to have some fun! < 1295383500 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- Been here 4 years, friends with most sysops. < 1295383501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to set some mode to prevent that < 1295383515 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: He does not have them visible, neither does elliott < 1295383516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, logged channels are supposed to have logs in the topic < 1295383519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always knew freenode sysops weren't very professional < 1295383531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The logs are down right now. < 1295383534 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says the people who just trolled a channel. < 1295383544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, anyway I doubt anyone would believe he was notch. The "~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486" kind of makes it obvious he isn't < 1295383547 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u mad? < 1295383547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, "trolling" is a bit strong. < 1295383552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I thought so too! < 1295383559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no part in it. < 1295383566 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Regardless, most users in #minecraft would not know how to check nor noticei t. < 1295383577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be ##minecraft anyway? < 1295383598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, well that is their issue. If people don't read the manual then they have only themselves to blame < 1295383613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, not now that it has Notch's approval. < 1295383616 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, they have occasional dickwads to blame and their own sense of trust :) < 1295383629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, I take offence to the "wad"! < 1295383637 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dickroll? < 1295383663 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1295383664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, uh. wrong. Also "their own sense of trust" just amounts to the same as what I said. They only have themselves to blame. < 1295383670 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sips tea while watching this bizarre drama unfold.
< 1295383670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to admit.. after PH /nicked to Notch, I vaguely mentioned #minecraft's existence < 1295383676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I feel a bit guilty < 1295383678 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by those same channel naming guidlines, this should be ##esoteric as it's a topic :) < 1295383685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has the biggest guilty conscience I have ever seen. < 1295383691 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, it's weird. < 1295383695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech: Minecraft is ownable, esoteric programming languages are not :P < 1295383701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You realise everyone knows #minecraft exists... < 1295383706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, this is actually old enough to predate those rules < 1295383712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech: Besides, we're 2002 vintage, it's Freenode's problem, not ours < 1295383735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our teeth are made out of pure whiskey and we ban people for breakfast! < 1295383743 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If a company or OS group with a strong presence asks for it and can prove they use the name, your channel can be moved :) < 1295383749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, frozen? I doubt such teeth would work < 1295383757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, and then we will go to war! < 1295383760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, nice trolling there :P < 1295383763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech: Good thing no company is called Esoteric Enterprises then < 1295383779 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually... < 1295383783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh please. < 1295383784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION founds The Esoteric Academy of Esoterica and petitions Freenode.
< 1295383789 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.bizfind.us/5/1503046/esoteric-enterprises/san-francisco.aspx < 1295383793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES < 1295383796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'RE DONE FOR < 1295383808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm betting ... sex toy shop. < 1295383809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ESOTERIC ENTERPRISES, SAN FRANCISCO, CORPORATE CHANNEL < 1295383815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1295383818 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it lists the category :P < 1295383820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ESOTERIC ENTERPRISES, SAN FRANCISCO, CORPORATE CHANNEL | SERIOUSNESS EXCLUSIVELY < 1295383823 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oO clothing? < 1295383838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clothing for your pet oO. < 1295383840 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech: Sex toys are the best kind of clothing. < 1295383856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*children's clothing < 1295383857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Women's child's clothing, so if you're not the child of a woman, you can go fuck yourself. < 1295383859 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if they just looked up random dictionary words to form a name. < 1295383909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, incidentally, does #minecraft have logs? < 1295383918 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Certainly < 1295383939 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ESOTERIC ENTERPRISES, SAN FRANCISCO, CORPORATE CHANNEL | SERIOUSNESS EXCLUSIVELY | We do not make sex toys, and discourage you from going behind the black curtain labeled "There are no adult products in this store" | Logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D or http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ (formatted) < 1295384004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ESOTERIC CORPORATION PTY LIMITED | http://www.esotericcorp.com.au/ < 1295384029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accountants. < 1295384029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ESOTERIC CORPORATION PTY LIMITED | http://www.esotericcorp.com.au/ | Service to businesses looking for personal attention and a high degree of accounting expertise. Smiling people around a circular table. < 1295384029 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so good about minecraft anyways? just a fad? < 1295384036 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much < 1295384042 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lego, just crashes more < 1295384044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: It's like Lego, except you can blow stuff up. < 1295384050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, what's your opinion of Nimrod? < 1295384055 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have any idea about zzo's Dirac notation-in-accounting. < 1295384056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crashing is usually correlated with blowing stuff up. < 1295384062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Accountants. <-- yes it makes no sense. at all < 1295384065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nobody has any idea about zzo38 anything. < 1295384068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, accounting? < 1295384070 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played any lego games on my computer < 1295384073 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not that either! < 1295384081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, reminds me of Arlington Wolfe. < 1295384081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I meant accounting + "esoteric" in the name < 1295384083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: That's another disadvantage to Minecraft, it requiers a computer. < 1295384086 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my kids have ton of actual legos tho heh < 1295384088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah indeed < 1295384091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*requires < 1295384096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: We were talking about actual lego :P < 1295384117 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, I said "legos") < 1295384118 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1295384121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legi. < 1295384122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legopodes. < 1295384126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1295384127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legae. < 1295384129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1295384134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legopodes is best :P < 1295384143 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, Ole Kirk Christiansen frowns upon you. < 1295384159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which. If anyone need to figure out how to get a cross compiler toolchain to the Lego RCX unit I can help < 1295384160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only Notch was here to frown upon people. < 1295384168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think nobody will EVER need that :P < 1295384196 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what < 1295384198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I actually wrote that guide for myself to reference mostly. Since I needed to do it again on another computer < 1295384208 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ;\ I have gcc set to cross-compiler C to my old 2002 RCX < 1295384208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech: "er, what"? < 1295384215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, well anyone who matters. >__> < 1295384229 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1295384261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, oh 2002? < 1295384267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who doesn't appreciate the HILARITY of posing as Notch. < 1295384275 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, don't remember when mine is from < 1295384277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does appreciate < 1295384278 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize they ever made a GCC->RCX X-compiler. < 1295384278 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think, haven't touched it in a long while < 1295384278 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...has a life? < 1295384282 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remember seeing about Java for it. < 1295384283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... *appreciates :P < 1295384287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, anyway using bibo, not brickOS these days < 1295384288 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one of the first-gen yellow bricks < 1295384295 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, this time me causing someone to come to this channel was only very, very indirect! < 1295384296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY LEGOS ARE MADE OUT OF PLASTIC DAMMIT < 1295384299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY STICK TOGETHER AND VERY LITTLE ELSE < 1295384317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so they do actually do other things? < 1295384321 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swaps elliotts legos for best locks
< 1295384331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, well I have two. One from RIS 1.5 and one from RIS 2.0. The one from RIS 1.5 is dead. No clue how, it worked when I put it away for some years. Was dead when I took it out of the box last year. < 1295384333 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I was here years ago, I think I first posted a whitespace interpreter what, 4 years ago < 1295384339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THEY BREAK IF YOU SNAP THEM < 1295384339 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha, now they don't even stick together < 1295384347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1295384351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, same nick? < 1295384355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech: DON'T THINK YOUR STATEMENTS WILL GO UNVERIFIED < 1295384357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM RUNNING GREP AS WE SPEAK < 1295384365 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pretty sure < 1295384367 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: was pre-reg < 1295384375 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd <3 logs if you have them < 1295384384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody has any logs, sorry, especially not Gregor in an hg repository. < 1295384387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> select * from irc.logs where nick = 'TkTech'; < 1295384387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : serial | tstamp | nick | target | uhost | type | body < 1295384388 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------+--------+------+--------+-------+------+------ < 1295384389 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `where' < 1295384389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, nope < 1295384394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE LIAR < 1295384394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor is Herobrine a logging bot. < 1295384395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no entries < 1295384396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lynch 'im. < 1295384397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... srsly? < 1295384402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what? < 1295384411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1295384411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... you have IRC logs in a DB? < 1295384418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: fizzie set it up first to do ANALYSIS. < 1295384421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, this is old news. fizzie made the script to begin with < 1295384423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Vorpal copied like always. < 1295384426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm < 1295384429 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For anal lysis. < 1295384430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it. < 1295384435 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes like you copied mcmap < 1295384435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1295384437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1295384444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ported it to postgre < 1295384449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way faster than sqlite < 1295384482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, nothing case insensitive either < 1295384488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech is the WORST LIAR. < 1295384490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech, got any other nick suggestion? < 1295384493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1295384498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does his claim really need verification :P < 1295384505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the most outrageous one I've heard < 1295384509 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: linuxhq? Searching google for references to this nick pre-2007 < 1295384514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scott Adams can verify his clam, if needed < 1295384515 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not having much luck < 1295384529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no nick like linuxhq either < 1295384530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So how are Pik/Linux relations? < 1295384538 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I was interested in Lua in 2007 < 1295384539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you at peace with the linuxhq? < 1295384539 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knew < 1295384569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I conclude that your claim about having been here before is false if your claim about using the same nick is also true < 1295384575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1295384577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/also// < 1295384578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAN THE LIAR < 1295384582 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1295384584 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no burn < 1295384595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn the witc^Wliar < 1295384606 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids these days < 1295384608 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this things prints sqrt(2)^2 + 2 sqrt(2) + x^2 for (x+sqrt(2)x)^2 < 1295384627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calamari: It's like Lego, except you can blow stuff up. <-- technically you _could_ blow up LEGO® bricks, just saying < 1295384636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But not with other lego bricks that look like TNT. < 1295384643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1295384649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That look like dynamite with "TNT" written on them :P < 1295384685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way that MC combines three different explosives into one. < 1295384707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Notch Logic. < 1295384721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notchurally < 1295384731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ban Sgeo < 1295384820 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1295384869 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295385143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks the nick linuxhq vaguely rings a bell
< 1295385199 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been googling for a bit, I can find mentions back to 2007 but it doesn't appear as if I specifically visited this #esoteric ;-( < 1295385213 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other #esoterics? :P < 1295385235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the original EFNet #esoterica that got used for all of a day before lament told andreou to come to freenode :P < 1295385237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No appearance of the string "linuxhq" in the codu logs. < 1295385242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :slowpoke: < 1295385258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should write a creation story based on our history, that would be... uh... stupid. < 1295385271 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#osdev's would be more enteraining < 1295385283 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the 12 year troll. < 1295385291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha? < 1295385293 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, gr00ber's been trolling it before freenode. < 1295385300 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295385319 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A slightly disturbed fellow whose stalked the channel and the ops for over a decade, before the move to freenode < 1295385323 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I don't want to write about graue :( < 1295385334 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Routinely gets k-lined by tomaj < 1295385342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graue has nothing to do with this IRC channel, that comes way after that. < 1295385350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always stayed away from osdev as I suspect them to be slightly insane. < 1295385353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is pitch dark. You might be eaten by a graue. < 1295385362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By that logic, you have nothing to do with this IRC channel :P < 1295385369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Its founding, no :P < 1295385376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Does *anyone* get along with Graue? :-) < 1295385416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get along with him because he creates another layer of Gregor/Gracenotes ambiguity :P < 1295385430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregori < 1295385435 0 :Gregori!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1295385451 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when a guy left to go fight in the war and gave me the keys to esolangs.org.. that must have really shined him on lol < 1295385476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1295385479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT LAST I AM AT PEACE < 1295385519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calamari: Does *anyone* get along with Graue? :-) ← well, I had a cordial email conversation with him a while ago. < 1295385585 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many vowels in a row, it's immediately irritating.. kinda like people that use their first name as their nick .. oh wait < 1295385595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Mr. Calamari. < 1295385612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That change to [[Tepir]] was me, nobody revert it :P < 1295385621 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-209.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295385693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats calamari -----###
< 1295385705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU JUST BE GLAD I DIDN'T BAN YOU < 1295385707 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calamari Jones is a self-hating squid. < 1295385721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is cpressey staying off IRC? < 1295385727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a welsh squid < 1295385737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was eating up all of his time < 1295385806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://progopedia.com/ < 1295385807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1295385809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no < 1295385812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This cannot be good < 1295385849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, it's too new to be that interesting < 1295385950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you should really try self-control. < 1295385986 0 :revenantphx!~dlukes@pool-74-111-168-109.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295386005 0 :revenantphx!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1295386020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE ON THE WIKI ABOUT TRYING TO GET THE CHANNEL ON TOPIC < 1295386061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1295386064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU PH < 1295386073 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has my lame Hanoi Love language but not Linguine.. bummer < 1295386076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: excuse me < 1295386078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my edit was not a revert < 1295386080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1295386081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was not spam < 1295386086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1295386086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1295386088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dman you < 1295386090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also damn you < 1295386092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly dman < 1295386093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1295386125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i actually just said that to Phantom_Hoover to make sure elliott checked the wiki) < 1295386131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, mostly) < 1295386132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches oerjan
< 1295386133 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295386140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ouch* < 1295386145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches oerjan
< 1295386208 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295386208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE SEEMS TO HAVE AN ANGER PROBLEM < 1295386245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches oerjan
< 1295386401 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1295386437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches oerjan
< 1295386454 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks fun! < 1295386454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST BE THOSE TEEN HORMONES < 1295386457 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches oerjan
< 1295386467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches oerjan
< 1295386492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches elliott
< 1295386498 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, context switching works < 1295386499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches oerjan
< 1295386508 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches Phantom_Hoover
< 1295386511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches olsner
< 1295386512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: now give it a transparent GUI and a tcp stack < 1295386517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barroom brawl! < 1295386517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINDOWS KILLER < 1295386521 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly! < 1295386527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION smashes a chair over Vorpal's head
< 1295386545 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's missing a *few* things before that can be worked on though < 1295386607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so you implemented context switching in userspace right? :D < 1295386615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, uh. Good thing I had my hard hat on < 1295386635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just slightly disoriented there for a few seconds < 1295386635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1295386649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws Sgeo out of a window
< 1295386653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott < 1295386662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1295386677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes outside, grabs Sgeo and hits elliott with him.
< 1295386679 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails at java :(
< 1295386681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is your preferred data structure for everything to be, an ordered map where both keys and values are optional or an unordered map < 1295386686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION poisons Gregor's tea while everyone else is watching the brawl
< 1295386701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing I don't actually drink tea. < 1295386704 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, what I have actually done is a yield syscall that switches to the next runnable process < 1295386726 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have a flag for whether a suspended process can just be sysret:ed to or if all the registers need to be restored < 1295386728 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? I thought all liberals drank tea < 1295386734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Now make a user-space process that forcibly inserts such syscalls into its children :D < 1295386754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how can you not drink tea? < 1295386755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs Nimrod
< 1295386764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Gregor sips tea while watching this bizarre drama unfold. <-- SOMEONE IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH < 1295386765 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're an English pansy! You must drink tea! < 1295386774 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hehe, right... and then solve the halting problem to figure out where those syscalls are required < 1295386775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yup, I lie. < 1295386790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, just insert them every N instructions < 1295386792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Same way I don't drink coffee, beer, wine or ... whatever else you like. < 1295386799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and make sure you insert one before every jump < 1295386809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, "you"?! < 1295386811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor drinks liquid babies. < 1295386822 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Other than tea. < 1295386824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll hang from the highest yard-arm in Leith docks for that slight! < 1295386827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT'S TO GET HOLD OF CHROMIUM CYANIDE?!=\ < 1295386834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1295386839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow. < 1295386842 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1295386844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Bravo on the reference :P < 1295386866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the irritation from the chromium seems rather pointless what with the cyanide. < 1295386875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_ < 1295386924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how DARE you call me English?! < 1295386931 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... I didn't? < 1295386935 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make every branch cost a syscall == awesome < 1295386947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Same way I don't drink coffee, beer, wine or ... whatever else you like. < 1295386952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the "you"?! < 1295386952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. < 1295386962 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, whatever other than tea that you like ... < 1295386964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyanide & Chromium Happiness < 1295386976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ANSWER < 1295387003 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm as American as < 1295387005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, my point was that English pansies drink tea, not that I like tea! < 1295387008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know. having potentential ordering seems like it would add more, potentially uneeded, complexity < 1295387012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Smallpox blankets? < 1295387012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe not < 1295387018 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could there be a language which contains no other instructions than LOAD, STORE, and TRAP that uses no memory-mapped I/O or arithmetic, as it depends on the OS to do all that for it? if yes, which OS could do it? < 1295387022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In that case, I'm as American as < 1295387024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sure, but it lets you express some things easier. < 1295387031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, English pansyness is genetically dominant. < 1295387042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: My Jewish genes beat it out. < 1295387045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Phantom_Hoover is saying, Gregor, is that you're gay. < 1295387046 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreover, can it be TRAP only? < 1295387055 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, nope! < 1295387069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidence: Jon Ronson is Jewish, and he's an English pansy. < 1295387070 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pfff, you English pansies are far more pansy than our American gays. < 1295387078 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neil Gaiman is Jewish, and he's an English pansy. < 1295387083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OH MY < 1295387088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your suggestion for syscall based thing works except you don't need a syscall. I believe erlang does what you suggested per scheduler (and it runs one scheduler per CPU) < 1295387106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In @, the compiler inserts the instructions :P < 1295387111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but since you know what you execute then you can just do a cheap decrement of a counter and a check < 1295387115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes so same thing applies to you < 1295387116 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, I'd much rather have the word "pooftah" in my lexicon than "faggot", but I guess that's because, as mentioned, I'm American :P < 1295387127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shut up, pofftah faggot. < 1295387128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't need a full syscall < 1295387128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pooftah < 1295387133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But olsner does. < 1295387135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because he's lame. < 1295387141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well that is a different system < 1295387142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wow. Gay on both sides o' the pond :P < 1295387150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The thing is, I can't have optional keys with an unordered thing. < 1295387155 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my OS will be disappointingly traditional for you < 1295387156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So arrays have to be 0 -> first elem; 1 -> second elem < 1295387156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than < 1295387159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> first elem; -> second elem < 1295387162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :D < 1295387172 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once it gets running programs, it's going to have a SHELL < 1295387178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I guess, I don't see anything terrible about ordered keys < 1295387186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so does it boot in an emulator yet? < 1295387190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why can't ypu? < 1295387205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because how would you look up a key... < 1295387219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, implied keys, MISC style < 1295387221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be ordered to represent [a; b; c] as (=> a, => b, => c) < 1295387225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i.e., keys aren't optional. < 1295387244 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: In that case, I'm as American as <-- G. W. Bush? < 1295387246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1295387257 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1295387258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was...lame. < 1295387259 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Canadian. < 1295387263 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, it's been booting since several years back - the difficult part is doing something useful after booting < 1295387265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. < 1295387267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes it was a cheap attack :P < 1295387268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone's Canadian. < 1295387270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But syntactically they are optional. Note that I'm insisting on nothing, just confused < 1295387280 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm as Canadian as apple pie is American! < 1295387289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at least I didn't say "highschool massacres" < 1295387291 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, at least I think it was already booting when I picked it up after elliott got me interested in os-writing again < 1295387295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada is just a country of quasi-English pansies. < 1295387296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those are Jewish. < 1295387296 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I *could* have done that < 1295387302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *as Canadian as murder < 1295387304 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no they are American < 1295387310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: JEWISH < 1295387319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, [citation needed] < 1295387334 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a script for my IRC client that terminates every line with "[citation needed]" < 1295387336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion < 1295387336 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since I've rewritten it now, all the timestamps are new and I don't remember how old the code was < 1295387351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what the heck is that? < 1295387355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The TRUTH < 1295387360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About JEWS < 1295387366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that RIGHT Gregor?!?!24783 < 1295387383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only the uninteresting parts. < 1295387390 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Kinda doesn't matter since you don't know the REAL secrets. < 1295387392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never heard of it. Has it been peer-reviewed by the mainstream science? < 1295387398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like killing all the RACISTS?!>!$@O%65UY WITH eAR JUICE??? < 1295387400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... X-D Yes. < 1295387406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I've concluded that Jew's ear Juice must actually be juice from the ear of a Jew. < 1295387406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I bet not < 1295387415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Shut up, you filthy kike. < 1295387433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since if it was juice that Jews put into their ears it would be apostrophised "Jews' ear Juice". < 1295387440 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no idea what "kike" means so thus I'm not offended by it < 1295387443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jews' ear juice < 1295387445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It means you're a JEW. < 1295387445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess it would be otherwise < 1295387448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like GREGOR. < 1295387450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And clearly that Chinese Engrish can would get its apostrophes right. < 1295387465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well no I don't believe in that religion < 1295387479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor does < 1295387481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT JUDAISM EXISTS < 1295387483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because he's a fag. < 1295387492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GO PRAISE ALLAH, TERRORIST < 1295387521 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1295387524 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1295387529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's juice made from the ears of their enemies, silly < 1295387529 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295387537 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is a Scientologist, you should know that < 1295387557 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, http://9gag.com/gag/29876/ it's "The Jew's ear juice" < 1295387574 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, still ambiguous. It's just owned by the Jew. < 1295387592 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! found a backup! Vorpal: the code has been booting since at least 8 and a half years < 1295387601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I didn't even EXIST that long ago. < 1295387603 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but protected mode and anything remotely useful only started working in november < 1295387608 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes it did < 1295387617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No I didn't! I'm 3! < 1295387637 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I read "it" < 1295387690 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :age%10? < 1295387716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't suppose you can recognize any of these symbols? http://9gag.com/gag/29876/ < 1295387825 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :黑木耳露 < 1295387840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hah! found a backup! Vorpal: the code has been booting since at least 8 and a half years <-- eh? what about the backup? < 1295387852 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now go look them up in the unicode table :P < 1295387864 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to find the pre-2010 timestamps of the code < 1295387871 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Good job, Human OCR. < 1295387874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, no version control? < 1295387881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :version control is lame < 1295387884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's scapegoat < 1295387887 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I cheated and used this page http://newatlasbev.com/450/juice/jews-ear-juice/ < 1295387896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, also will it work on a SATA based no-legacy system? < 1295387908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese to English translation < 1295387908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black fungus Lu < 1295387909 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was (*was*) a CVS repository for it... on a different computer... running windows < 1295387912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but it is better than no version control at all < 1295387914 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... well, that's even worse :P < 1295387917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hah < 1295387968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, version control is unacceptable < 1295387970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's sg < 1295388032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auricularia_auricula-judae < 1295388060 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, the CVS repository was running on a different computer running windows that I no longer have) < 1295388301 0 :TkTech!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TkTech|Busy < 1295388346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike awaynicks < 1295388357 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use /away, less spammy < 1295388366 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah /away is neat < 1295388376 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech|Busy, ^ < 1295388491 0 :TkTech|Busy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sucks < 1295388501 0 :TkTech|Busy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fyi, busy != away < 1295388511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just looking for an excuse to ban you forever < 1295388515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TkTech|Busy, well still they are spammy in the nick < 1295388522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott|flossing < 1295388532 0 :TkTech|Busy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Easily solved < 1295388533 0 :TkTech|Busy!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1295388535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1295388540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww < 1295388545 0 :elliott|flossing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo < 1295388547 0 :elliott|flossing!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1295388550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh come on, we don't like him < 1295388561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well that solved the issue :) < 1295388566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all thanks to me < 1295388571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1295388589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal saved the day yet again! < 1295388727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that means we are doomed, right? < 1295388981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1295389022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, big news: I did not spawn on a beach. < 1295389028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WHAT < 1295389029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREENSHOT < 1295389033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, however I did spawn at the edge of a desert biome! < 1295389042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BUT WERE YOU STANDING ON SAND < 1295389055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes. Just. < 1295389066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just on the edge of the desert biome. No water near < 1295389081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, there is water very far away on far < 1295389131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but well I can upload the screenshots. My old ~/bin/ompload seems broken. Any idea for some automated command line upload? < 1295389142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uuencode to sprunge < 1295389142 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the series of screenshot < 1295389148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, too much work < 1295389153 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now seriously < 1295389159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. < 1295389165 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no upload then of screenshots < 1295389167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work < 1295389173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just upload one... < 1295389183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I won't start browser however < 1295389188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't when minecraft runs < 1295389191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3m < 1295389209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude just give me url to an automated program for it. That's all < 1295389216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For WHAT < 1295389223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3m is too tedious to use < 1295389229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For WHAT < 1295389229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to upload image to some image hosting site! < 1295389234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a browser. < 1295389239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use w3m, it takes two seconds... < 1295389246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I won't. No upload for you then < 1295389256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the screenshots saved < 1295389261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1295389261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you change your mind < 1295389290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK, so basically "I want to make things hard for you so I'm going to waste more effort than I would end up spending if I just did what he said complaining that it's too much effort". < 1295389317 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually such a tool will be useful further on < 1295390013 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paper about finetuning of the Plank constant. That of course assumes dark energy really exists and is not just an atefact of GR being incorrect... < 1295390143 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.227.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295390578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I SEE YOU WITH MY EYES < 1295390588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have accidentally driven the Nimrod dev insane < 1295390608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Howso. < 1295390617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introduced him to the AW SDK < 1295390642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How has that driven him insane. < 1295390655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you ever seen AW SDK code? < 1295390692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1295390710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=SDK_Sample_Program_1 < 1295390785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: With my EYES. < 1295390801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Doesn't seem that unreasonable... < 1295390866 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am seen by you with your eyes. Your eyes are seen with by you of me. < 1295390908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: More like "you know someone I know and I did not know they knew you and this fact has been communicated to my brain via imagery". < 1295390922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I see your physical manifestation with my eyes due to witchcraft. < 1295390925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't let facts get in the way of it. < 1295390927 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I see. So who's our mutual knowee? < 1295391415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My step-mom's giving my dad grief about the cell phone plan, so my dad wants to give me a regular phone and a small wifi portable hotspot thing < 1295391450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "The cell phone plan"? < 1295391455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION braces for cringe
< 1295391465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a data plan, I guess < 1295391633 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whew. My Less Wrong karma has finally risen above 799. < 1295391646 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, I don't actually look like that. < 1295391655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes you do. < 1295391661 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Okay. < 1295391668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You are quite clearly a Warrigal mouse. < 1295391674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that might have been a rat. < 1295391675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall. < 1295391683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I will gladly murder your stepmother. < 1295391698 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a mouse. < 1295391715 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295391757 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett why were you shooting for 800? < 1295391792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a power of two. < 1295391798 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I was at 799, an annoying number. < 1295391801 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 800 is a power of two. < 1295391804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1295391806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best power of two. < 1295391819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the 9.64th power of two. < 1295391822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately. < 1295391833 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, it's 6668014432879854274079851790721257797144758322315908160396257811764037237817632071521432200871554290742929910593433240445888801654119365080363356052330830046095157579514014558463078285911814024728965016135886601981690748037476461291163877376. < 1295391835 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1295391845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Indeed, 800 = 6668014432879854274079851790721257797144758322315908160396257811764037237817632071521432200871554290742929910593433240445888801654119365080363356052330830046095157579514014558463078285911814024728965016135886601981690748037476461291163877376 < 1295391854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^800 < 1295391855 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 666801443287985427407985179072125779714475832231590816039625781176403723781... < 1295391886 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295391895 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the 800th power of two, whereas 800 is the ... < 1295391905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.64th power of two. < 1295391917 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ln(800)/ln(2) < 1295391918 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `ln'Not in scope: `ln' < 1295391921 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1295391933 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't lambdabot
< 1295391936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 800 < 1295391937 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9.643856189774725 < 1295391970 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 9.643856189774725...th power of 2 < 1295392015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 800 :: CReal < 1295392016 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9.6438561897747246957406388589787803517297 < 1295392037 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1295392039 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1295392039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so creal < 1295392048 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..246... < 1295392052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you know any dataflow languages that I would like? < 1295392062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANIC-like, but actually existing, perhaps < 1295392079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ANI exists... < 1295392088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's stupid :P < 1295392109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1295392110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, come on: < 1295392113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Try to imagine, if you will, the amount of time and effort it would take you to write a bug-free, efficiently multithreaded real-time clock + infix calculator hybrid application in a language like C." < 1295392119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write those EVERY DAY. < 1295392158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To those more technically inclined, anic compiles source-specified pipeline definitions down to object code modules, which are linked with a runtime providing initialization code and a root arbitrator thread; the arbitrator spawns worker threads which are dynamically dispatched to the compiled pipelines in such a way that there are no memory conflicts." <-- this is also almost entirely devoid of detail < 1295392163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The author seems a bit...fanatical. < 1295392185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at D
< 1295392194 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something about it having two standard libraries < 1295392244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D is shit. < 1295392247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not want to use D. < 1295392248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever. < 1295392254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1295392261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only is it the worst language, but even its most ardent fans agree that the toolchain situation is beyond fucked. < 1295392263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask Gregor or pikhq. < 1295392267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the toolchain stuff.) < 1295392279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason it's a bad language is because it's basically C++ done slightly better with heaps and heaps of shit piled on top :P < 1295392283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also there's a D1/D2 divide. < 1295392293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Gregor, explain the toolchain stuff. < 1295392295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's two languages, two standard libraries, and seven compilers of which none work. < 1295392298 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are at least six Ds. < 1295392305 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of them are compatible with any other. < 1295392314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D, D, D, D, D, and D. < 1295392318 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The community is so fractured as to be useless to help rectify this situation. < 1295392329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't the two stdlibs supposed to be compatible in D2? < 1295392331 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in some years, five or more Ds will die, leaving a good D. Until then, stay away. < 1295392334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reading wikipedia) < 1295392355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and faeries are friends with the demonic legions of hell. < 1295392364 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and as of the last time I looked, D2 had easily the worst const system in any language. < 1295392368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is almost impossible to get a "modern" D toolchain running on any OS. < 1295392381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, and faeries are friends with the demonic legions of hell. ← well traditionally... < 1295392383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that toolchain will be on one of the six Ds :P < 1295392406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, I use gdc from sourceforge with gcc 3.0 and Phobos < 1295392409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why no worky < 1295392409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are there 6 Ds? < 1295392423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 versions * 2 stdlibs = 4 < 1295392430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: + compiler differences and shit < 1295392432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toolchain crap < 1295392443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1295392446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1295392450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks like you've already made up your mind to like D anyway, so I don't bother < 1295392457 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The different compilers are wildly incompatible, as are D+Windows from D+Mac from D+Linux, mostly for author-has-never-written-portable-code reasons. < 1295392478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are some D-like languages that don't have these issues? < 1295392485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D HAS NO PROPERTIES. < 1295392491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no "D-like languages". < 1295392495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D is a gigantic ball of mud. < 1295392498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False. < 1295392503 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D has some very nice properties. < 1295392508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It has no _unique_ properties. < 1295392519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot look at a random language and say "oh, it's like D" because D is like everything. < 1295392524 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the right features from Java and the right features from C++. I know of no other language with as nice of a mix. < 1295392539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Dylan like? < 1295392541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, Java + C++, that's exactly what I've been looking for. < 1295392549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Scheme with an object system and bad syntax. < 1295392556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The syntax was added to make it more accessible.) < 1295392562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It was originally just a Scheme.) < 1295392596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: tailconst headconst what the fuck is this shit < 1295392601 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295392641 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, and as of the last time I looked, D2 had easily the worst const system in any language. <-- s'truth :P < 1295392661 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes C++'s const types look downright peachy. < 1295392674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My const types are declared like this: < 1295392677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And errors look like: < 1295392681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p = x --> SYNTAX ERROR < 1295392687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it Haskell < 1295392725 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1295392727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki on Dylan programming langage seems to be written for someone who has never seen a CLOS-like system before < 1295392795 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coi gregor .i mo < 1295392854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with that sentence, tswett constructs the most complicated Lojban sentence anyone ever has. < 1295392856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to know if I would like a Scheme variant for reasons that elliott would deem irrational: It distinguishes itself from "just another Scheme" in the minds of the general programming project < 1295392865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence Racket and Dylan < 1295392883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Yes, I'm considering a name change to be enough of a distinction] < 1295392950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Amethyst isn't a Scheme, you can tell because of the name. < 1295392977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or because of everything you told me about it thus far < 1295392992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hey, it's homoiconic. Like Scheme! < 1295393017 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1295393021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It has keyword arguments, does this not make you happy < 1295393038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes me happy, why wouldn't it? < 1295393043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I AM JUST ASKING < 1295393058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In fact, even "[replace foo with: bar]" works. Like SMALLTALK. < 1295393174 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295393407 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1295393572 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295393604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In fact, every argument is a keyword argument. < 1295393814 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.79x/8 for APNIC... Wonder how long IANA is taking to process the request... Well, probably involves at least few meetings... < 1295393906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the last available IPs have been requested? < 1295393914 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP is over? < 1295393920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's being processed. < 1295393930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After this request, they'll have been allocated. RIR depletion will take a month or two, I think. < 1295393943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the actual "we can't allocate shit" point will be about a month after that? < 1295393980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you ever get gcc running on jsmips? < 1295394007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope :P < 1295394017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: why not :P < 1295394023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> f . length < 1295394024 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. (Int -> b) -> [a] -> b < 1295394028 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just never really got that far *shrugs* < 1295394036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DO EET < 1295394049 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My project-o-the-moment (again) is ZEE. < 1295394058 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a more complicated Lojban sentence: < 1295394059 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please wait a full cycle before expecting JSMIPS again :P < 1295394064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that actually being worked on, Gregor? :P < 1295394066 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coi gregor .i mo mo mo mo mo mo mo mo mo mo mo mo < 1295394084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's making progress by some semi-reasonable definition. < 1295394085 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has, like, eleven layers of nesting. < 1295394099 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo. < 1295394144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 `div` 2 < 1295394145 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1295394154 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe first RIR (APNIC) would run out (actually, enter phase 3 with allocations restricted) something like 6-9 months after IANA depletion... < 1295394157 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@150.140.227.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1295394170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> drop 1 [1,2,3] < 1295394171 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3] < 1295394210 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo la bafalos visnda poi terpa lo la bafalos visna cu se terpa lo la bafalos visnda poi terpa lo la bafalos visna < 1295394287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timber's supposed to be used in embedded systems? < 1295394334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is used < 1295394343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I gather it is. < 1295394589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Those symbols are: black, tree, ear, and ... I dunno. Juice is entirely plausible. < 1295394601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (from http://9gag.com/gag/29876/) < 1295394622 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, Jews are a black tree. < 1295394668 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rastafaris are a Black Star Liner < 1295394675 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third phase has fun restrictions like maximum allocation size being 1024 addresses at once(!). < 1295394703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to jisho.org, I should *know* what 露 is, and it can, depending on context, mean: dew, expose, Russia, and tears. < 1295394733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With dew as the primary semantics for it. < 1295394774 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "juice" is presumably by metaphor with "dew" < 1295394783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Jews" is by metaphor with "black tree" < 1295394790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in Japanese it's a homophone for a somewhat rare word meaning either "juice" or "soup". < 1295394846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's no wonder the English is so fucking weird. The Chinese, unless I'm missing something, is "Black tree ear dew". < 1295394885 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1295394919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, Google Translate comes up with "Black fungus Lu". < 1295394930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black tree ear jews < 1295394954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders about using Timber in Second Life
< 1295394969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1295394982 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1295395017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all the complaints about Notch, you must admit: it's significantly better-written than Second Life. < 1295395049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i reiterate, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auricularia_auricula-judae < 1295395094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh holy god. < 1295395097 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, I didn't see that :P < 1295395106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jew's Ear" in Japanese is 木耳. < 1295395118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jusea < 1295395121 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ... it's actually an accurate translation? X-D < 1295395140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Chinese, it's "黑木耳". < 1295395148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name was criticised by mycologist Curtis Gates Lloyd, who said "Auricularia auricula-Judae is cumbersome and in addition is a slander on the Jews". < 1295395156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, "Jew's Ear Juice" is an *entirely valid* translation.