00:01:31 oerjan i have an off-by-one bug 00:01:32 punchline 00:01:35 it's in a haskell program 00:01:46 Probably a bad translation choice, though. 00:01:53 elliott: :D 00:02:04 pikhq: you don't say :D 00:02:24 oerjan: what i'm learning here is that constructing a tree from a list is a pretty stupid idOH i see what i did there 00:02:40 *Main> fromList [(Just Nil,Just Nil),(Just Nil,Just Nil),(Just Nil,Just Nil)] 00:02:40 Branch (Leaf (Just Nil,Just Nil)) (Branch (Leaf (Just Nil,Just Nil)) (Leaf (Just Nil,Just Nil))) 00:02:41 weet 00:02:53 i should probably like 00:02:59 learn tree algorithms 00:03:03 j-invariant: teach me tree algorithms 00:03:42 * pikhq is of the opinion that the "jew's ear" should just be called a "tree ear". 00:04:07 tree algorithms? 00:04:10 like what 00:04:24 Or, if you prefer slightly less childish name, kikurage... 00:05:05 j-invariant: algorithms, on trees! 00:05:40 i should probably just use haskell's Data.Map except no because I have duplicate keys 00:05:52 elliott: I can't think of any good algorithm 00:06:03 for...trees? 00:06:14 elliott: just write the fold and find random functions that satisfy the type until something interesting appears 00:06:22 :D 00:06:28 elliott, you're implementing Amethyst? 00:06:33 Sgeo: seemingly 00:08:07 Or, if you prefer it to be nearly impossible to pronounce right, hēimù'ěr. 00:08:41 j-invariant: i'm pretty sure what i'm trying to write is just a B-tree 00:08:50 or actually 00:08:53 just a self-balancing binary search tree 00:08:55 that's not an algorithm :( 00:09:14 well yeah but the algorithms on them :D 00:09:28 right so red-black trees, the things i've been trying to pretend don't exist for my entire programming life 00:11:43 don't do it 00:12:10 if you expect your data to be mostly random, use a splay tree instead 00:12:15 they are so much easier to implement 00:12:20 you need syntax coloring to implement red black trees 00:13:15 ...you can get a lot of help with a data type which includes the color restrictions 00:13:28 use color forth 00:13:59 goodmath/badmath had a post on doing red black trees in haskell iirc 00:14:22 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:14:23 elliott: do it in Coq, then you can extract it to haskell 00:14:30 i've implemented three kinds of binary trees. the straightforward "check if it needs rebalancing on every insert or delete" was like half as hard even as red-black trees 00:14:38 and splay trees were just ridiculously easy 00:14:41 elliott: this is one of the very few examples where that approach actually works really nicely 00:14:52 although i vaguely recall complaining that he didn't use the best data type 00:14:52 j-invariant: i'm not devoting that much energy to Sgeo sorry 00:15:08 oerjan: i saw some post about doing deletion in red-black trees that modified okasaki's presentation to have "fake black" nodes or something 00:15:08 Aww 00:15:09 and i just cried 00:15:12 for days 00:15:35 splay trees look interesting, but lol @wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splay_tree#Deletion_Code_in_C_language 00:17:09 i'm staring at this code and it's looking at me like 00:17:11 why are you staring at me 00:17:12 and i'm just 00:17:14 i don't know, code 00:17:15 what are you guys doing? 00:17:15 i don't know 00:17:22 j-invariant: i'm trying to implement the language to trap sgeo forever 00:17:26 with p0werz 00:17:38 Will it be compilable? 00:17:55 probably 00:18:08 elliott: it's a nice delete function isn't it? "splay the tree and then choose one child to be the new root and attach the other to it 00:18:14 that's it 00:18:41 quintopia: yeah but lol at the formatting and (...) comments and sthit 00:18:43 *shit 00:18:45 also "Delete _ Splay" 00:18:49 as a function (non-)name 00:18:55 okay 00:19:01 yeah i see it now 00:19:06 i'm laughing a little on the inside 00:20:05 i'm so tired 00:20:12 um right so 00:20:19 soebody implement those trees for me 00:20:20 thanks 00:21:28 excuse me 00:21:29 soebody 00:21:31 i am waiting 00:21:34 SOEBODY 00:21:37 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:21:49 in what language? 00:22:53 haskel 00:22:54 haskela 00:22:57 haskelamots 00:23:00 haskelamotsinfot 00:23:03 haskelamotsinfoticatious 00:23:10 haskelamotsinfoticatiouslambdaluddite 00:23:18 haskelamotsinfoticatiouslambdaludditelerpisticulatorour 00:23:27 haskelamotsinfoticatiouslambdaludditelerpisticulatorourinkydinkalakazamtwaddlepit 00:23:31 that language 00:23:35 also known as: haskell 00:25:12 excuse me quintopia can you get on the phone to soebody, say: 00:25:13 hello soebody 00:25:15 yes this is quintopia 00:25:18 elliott wants to know why you have not 00:25:18 yet 00:25:20 why you have 00:25:21 stop 00:25:25 why you have not coded 00:25:27 what? the thing 00:25:27 you know 00:25:29 and then hang up 00:25:31 thank you 00:26:12 quintopia have you done that 00:26:28 -!- elliott has set topic: nobody is at http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ and insert tedious clog url here. 00:26:52 -!- quintopia has set topic: soebody is at http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ and insert tedious clog url here. 00:27:00 oh 00:27:02 hi soebody 00:27:02 can you 00:27:04 that is to say... 00:27:16 ok i need to aks a question here why is quintopia not splay tree in haskelmitron yet 00:27:48 give me a month 00:27:59 *hour 00:27:59 ok go 00:28:01 qUCIKLY 00:28:08 i've heard it takes that long to get reasonably proficient in haskell starting from scratch 00:28:23 i'll learn haskell for a month and then do the trees in an hour 00:28:52 quintopia: you don't know haskell? 00:28:53 lol noob :D 00:28:54 you're like 00:28:58 "dinosaur": the stone age version 00:29:00 &programmer 00:29:04 meld concepts together and stuff, i'm too tired to 00:29:39 quintopia hav eyou called soebody yet 00:30:21 i might leave the cs program. 00:30:40 but i did tell soebody what you wanted 00:30:44 he said he'll be right on it 00:31:21 * Sgeo wonders if Reia is decent 00:32:11 quintopia: ok.-;so do you know haskell yet 00:32:25 no, sorry. too busy reading antijokes and not caring 00:35:18 quintopia: you are he worst 00:35:36 no, she is he worst 00:35:47 and you are knockwurst 00:37:11 oijsd 00:37:24 hey don't knock wurst until you try it 00:38:25 oerjan write some fucking trees in haskell jesusc rhstit 00:41:22 im waitign oerjan 00:43:04 nope 00:43:36 data Tree a = Tree Tree a Tree | NoTree 00:43:38 So, it seems FFvsXIII might just be what FFXIII should have been... I certainly hope so. 00:43:51 oh wait, that fails 00:43:53 I never understood putting 'a' in the branch 00:43:59 I always put it in the laeves 00:44:14 data Tree a = Tree (Tree a) a (Tree a) | NoTree 00:44:29 j-invariant: um then you cannot search efficiently 00:44:33 * Sgeo hits j-invariant with a tree 00:44:44 WOOD 00:44:57 oerjan: so there is a reason after all.. 00:45:11 indeed 00:45:25 It has an overworld! 00:45:35 data Tree = Nil 00:45:35 | Leaf Leaf 00:45:36 | Branch Tree Tree 00:45:39 oerjan: you get to fix that 00:45:40 to be nice 00:45:41 enjoy 00:46:07 data Tree a = Tree' where 00:46:21 Tree' = Branch Tree' Tree' 00:46:24 no that wouldn't work 00:46:44 sadly not a supported syntax 00:46:56 lol 00:47:01 yeahbut even if it was it would be rubbish 00:47:02 data Tree a = f Tree fix a where Tree' 00:48:08 elliott: need to design a nice "interface" for working with algebraic numbers 00:48:17 interface interf ace face 00:48:19 ace face interface 00:48:20 building the polynomials etc is too much hassle 00:48:21 coincidence? 00:48:33 lol 00:48:48 elliott: did you look a tmy code at all 00:48:57 yes for like... a few seconds... i totally will look at it 00:49:01 it's just amethysr taskes priority 00:49:05 because Sgeo is the talk al the time 00:49:25 elliott: I am not sure if what I have is good for continuing, or I need to rewrite 00:50:02 j-invariant: don't rewrite just implement my change :> 00:50:54 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:51:47 :[ 00:52:42 my change solves all problems 00:52:43 like 00:52:45 a magical faerieroysjdfhkgl 00:53:12 elliott: why don't you help :( 00:53:17 because i'm really tired :x 00:53:37 I hate the code I write, it all seems so wron 00:53:50 nah it's good 00:53:57 you haven't looked! 00:54:52 j-invariant: i did 00:54:52 briefly 00:55:13 fizzie: it works though 00:59:33 I think I've worked out a fire suppression system 00:59:54 Roof, bottom to top: 01:00:17 Cobblestone, TNT, Water Springs, Cobblestone 01:00:39 Why TNT... 01:00:43 Fire ignites tnt 01:01:01 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 01:01:03 Have fire detection hooked up to the TNT 01:01:14 Probably some redstone mechanism, don't want to blow up the main building 01:01:24 TNT blows up, destroys cobblestone, water falls 01:01:37 * Sgeo suddenly sees a flaw 01:02:11 better solution 01:02:13 don't use flammable materials 01:02:31 Oh come on, thinking about this sort of thing is fuN! 01:03:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 01:04:29 it's too finite 01:04:30 (IMO) 01:04:57 hmm? 01:05:51 the possibility space - you don't have much to explore 01:06:35 Mathnerd314: what? 01:06:40 that doesn't make any sense at all 01:06:50 Fire suppression mechanisms? 01:07:04 Sgeo: no, the game in general 01:07:15 WAR 01:07:27 There is a resource worth fighting over: Time 01:07:50 In some circumstances, it might be easier to attack a neighbor than to build infrastructure and mine yourself 01:10:18 Mathnerd314: unfortunately, your pseudo-theorising loses against the experimentally-verified fact that the game is fun. also, arbitrary circuits are hardly very finite as far as possibility space goes. 01:10:20 and now i leave 01:10:21 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:16:45 since I can ensure elliott will read the logs later: 01:16:47 elliott: perhaps MC is addictive and fun 01:16:48 elliott: but a deadly drug could be addictive and fun too 01:16:50 elliott: so your argument is invalid 01:17:20 Maybe I should learn Go 01:18:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:24:14 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:35:15 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:41:12 Haha... "I guess we live in different universes." (from one mailing list post). 01:45:55 -!- calamari has joined. 01:52:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:53:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:55:30 -!- cal153 has joined. 01:56:26 context? 01:56:54 (that quote is actually rather common) 02:03:15 -!- TLUL has joined. 02:06:05 Digital certificate stuff, OpenPGP vs. X.509 02:08:51 Hmm (from one sideset): "Users should have certified authentication keys and use these to certify their own confidentiality keys"... DNSSEC KSK/ZSK anyone (well, that's for authentication not confidentitality)? 02:10:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:12:06 Someone want to explain to me why Clojure's considered so bad? 02:12:30 Besides "Someone got some CS question wrong" 02:12:46 it's not necessarily bad...it's just considered harmful 02:13:06 harmful howso? 02:15:17 lol: "CA copies subjKID into authKID field" "Fields have a completely different structure" "Undetected by Eudora, Mulberry, Netscape 4.x ­ 6.x, OpenSSL, OS X Mail, Windows" 02:15:54 -!- zeotrope has joined. 02:17:09 anyone know the way to do rectangular selection in rxvt? is possible? 02:19:07 "CA certs have basicConstraints CA = false (Several large CAs, PKIX RFC (!!))" 02:20:17 quintopia, how is Clojure considered harmful? 02:21:01 sgeo: i do not actually know anything about clojure. use it and find out and report back. 02:21:17 Me? Actually _use_ a language? 02:22:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:23:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 02:24:25 "Policy text: Must be used strictly as specified in keyUsage" "Key usage: keyAgreement (for an RSA key)". 02:29:11 (in case someone doesn't know, you can't do keyAgreement using RSA key (it requires DH key). 02:32:21 "Having worked with PKI software, I wouldn't trust it to control access to our beer fridge." ­ Developer, international software company 02:42:00 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:43:34 Heh... What's actually unhealthy about chips / french fries? 02:43:37 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 02:45:21 (For soft drinks the unhealthy part is clearly fructose) 02:55:28 Except when it's the Jew's ear juice. 02:56:10 i've heard jew's ear juice is the elixir of life 03:01:59 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:03:29 Gregor, if you see something about CitiVille on my wall in a few minutes, don't be alarmed 03:03:38 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:03:40 I plan on preventing it from posting if possible 03:04:22 Sgeo: Thank you for the update on things I don't give one flying fuck about. 03:13:12 Mathnerd314: Minecraft has at least as much of a possibility space as any other sandbox game. 03:13:18 Mathnerd314: Which is to say, "insanely large". 03:13:40 pikhq: not really... there aren't that many interactions 03:13:44 Mathnerd314: Especially as Minecraft is practically Turing complete. 03:13:55 And it's not too painful to exploit this. 03:14:01 so? Brainfuck is turing complete 03:14:15 And it has a lot of possibilities. 03:14:21 And it's quite enjoyable. 03:14:37 the game of life is the best sandbox game 03:14:40 You *do* realise that we're in here because we claim to enjoy esoteric programming languages, right? :) 03:14:53 pikhq: you're in here, maybe. 03:14:55 and it has VERY few interactions: cell on or cell off :P 03:15:45 quintopia: right, and I find the Game of Life to be getting boring. This is all consistent. 03:16:03 Mathnerd314: Name to me some games you actually find enjoyable. 03:16:41 random ones on the internet, for as long as it takes to extract their underlying rules 03:16:51 Mathnerd314: sounds like a personal problem. if you can't get excited about Gemini then you don't belong in this channel. 03:17:12 Mathnerd314: "For as long as it takes to extract their underlying rules", eh? 03:17:17 You must hate RPGs. 03:17:24 yes, with a passion 03:17:24 Or FPSes. 03:17:31 Or, indeed, any other form of game. 03:17:34 depends. 03:17:45 Mathnerd314: GoL is exciting because we still don't understand its rules on a "symbolic" level. it requires /actual research/ to discover its rules. how is that boring? 03:18:02 what's Gemini? 03:18:03 Heck, I bet you are the one person to genuinely dislike Super Mario Bros. 03:18:33 it's ok for the first few levels 03:18:34 Mathnerd314: the UCC-based knightship 03:19:18 Mathnerd314: You are hereby forbidden from talking about any games. Reason: lack of understanding of "fun". 03:19:19 Let's port Gemini to Night&Day 03:19:47 pikhq: my point is that most people's idea of "fun" is destructive 03:20:11 You are less normal than zzo38. 03:20:12 Congrats. 03:20:30 a dubious honor? 03:20:42 Actually. 03:20:46 What *do* you find fun? 03:20:53 Mathnerd314: destruction is a big part of the fun of minecraft. if you don't find destructive things fun, then you are surely missing out 03:21:21 pikhq: discussing the nature of fun on IRC 03:21:44 Mathnerd314: What species are you? 03:21:53 he's a math nerd. 03:21:56 clearly 03:21:58 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:22:09 quintopia: Though a descriptor, that is not a form of species. 03:23:05 pikhq: he may lack a description that is a form of species 03:23:11 pikhq: homo sapiens sapiens, according to my parents 03:23:12 he may be pure, raw, distilled math nerd 03:23:24 Mathnerd314: I believe that to be a lie. 03:23:36 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:23:49 Homo sapiens mathematicus 03:24:05 Strictly that's the same species of course, just a different subspecies. 03:24:12 Unlike Homo zzolicus 03:24:43 Gregor: I'm not sure zzo38 is a member of Homo. Though he is most likely hominid. 03:25:00 Hominidae pan zzolicus? 03:25:09 Nah, not pan. 03:25:17 Hominidae zzolicus zzolicus? 03:25:28 Perhaps Hominidae posthomo zzolicus. 03:26:29 pikhq: I'd love to be proven wrong. 03:26:58 Mathnerd314: I'm pretty sure you've given enough evidence to dispute your species claim. 03:28:44 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100627191843AA1w2Lk 03:28:58 http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/gpicarcher.png 03:29:00 "Only humans can operate computers and type legible sentences." 03:29:26 Pretty sure computers can do that. 03:30:36 Dominion episode! 03:30:45 Second one to contain the text "Dominion" 03:30:51 * Sgeo is in a good mood 03:30:56 Sgeo: like "The Secret of Dominion"? 03:32:11 no, of course not 03:32:55 it would be stupid of me to think that I, a being who is apparently "not human", could share any possible traits with a human, such as Sgeo 03:33:52 Mathnerd314, episode 2x10 "Sanctuary" 03:34:05 Maybe not a Dominion episode, but at least they got at least one mention thus far 03:34:43 pound_esoteric select(chatter, chatter normal?) 03:34:47 That returns 0 results 03:36:56 this is... Star Trek? 03:40:13 ...of course? 03:41:58 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:43:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:59:31 -!- Mannerisky has joined. 04:00:12 Hmm, I missed an episode by accident 04:03:58 how are you watching it? google seems to think that 2 pages of torrents are more important than Wikipedia 04:10:23 On YouTube 04:11:54 pikhq: pretty sure I can pass the turing test 04:17:10 I think I like goroutines 04:17:18 I just wish they were part of a better language 04:26:22 Mathnerd314: Your incomprehension of fun is your downfall! 04:26:44 pikhq: I know enough to pretend 04:34:48 Is this a commercial for ITT Tech or E-Harmony? 04:37:30 ITT Harmony. 04:39:24 So my Pandora shipped. 04:39:34 And now my greatest fear is that I'll get ZEE running on it and it'll be HORRIBLY slow. 04:39:37 Then I'll have to rewrite ZEE in C. 04:39:40 Which will suck foot. 04:41:56 http://i.imgur.com/JW6p5.jpg 04:42:10 Pandoras EXIST?! 04:42:32 You actually are in posession of a functioning Pandora?!? 04:42:40 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:08 Sgeo: No, USPS is in possession of my functioning Pandora. 04:44:15 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:44:18 Well, maybe. As I complained about earlier, Royal Mail says it's in the US, and USPS says it's in the UK. 04:44:43 Probably it's in customs hell. 05:00:45 http://www.musecorp.com this makes me sad 05:02:37 no firefox ?! 05:12:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:14:29 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:22:48 Y'know, it is probably insanely hard to be a computer scientist and remain a creationist... 05:23:08 As soon as you hit evolutionary algorithms. 05:23:19 "Oh, fuck, evolution works?" 05:29:14 What was my problem with Erlang the last time I looked at it? 05:29:26 Centralized receive per process? 05:30:15 Sgeo: Probably "the language sucks". 05:30:22 (hint: it does) 05:30:28 o.O? 05:30:46 Really good runtime environment, hosting a bad language. 05:31:28 How so? 05:31:52 ... Have you ever written anything in Erlang? 05:32:16 I haven't written much in anything other than Python or C# or LSL, to be quite honest 05:33:55 Even at syntax *alone*, the suckiness is apparent. It makes a distinction between statements at the end of a function, the end of a nested block, or otherwise... 05:35:36 And its pattern matching is positively *painful* to use. 05:36:22 Really, in all its syntax is just very very useless-noise-filled. 05:37:48 Are there any non-Go languages with Go-like channels? 05:37:49 And the type system is very... Questionable. 05:39:05 Oh, God, I forgot that it doesn't curry. :( 05:39:21 It's nominally functional, and it doesn't curry. 05:42:38 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:44:55 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:46:03 Are there any good languages that run on Erlang's VM, then? 05:46:14 -!- TLUL has quit (Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*). 05:46:25 Not really. 05:46:50 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]). 05:48:37 " This is indeed unfortunate, but note this: apart from a few libraries which implement their functionality directly in the Erlang VM kernel, most libraries are written in pure Erlang and can be replaced easily. If you hate the list module, you can write your own lst." 05:48:42 http://jlouisramblings.blogspot.com/2010/12/response-to-erlang-overhyped-or.html 05:48:51 That is NOT a valid response to that criticism 05:49:14 It's good that it's theoretically possible to do that, but do you really want to turn into D? 05:49:47 Hahaha, we've already got him using "D" as an insult :P 05:50:56 Huh. Twitter has an *entirely* different vibe in Japanese. 05:51:36 Because Japanese is significantly more character-dense, Twitter's character limitation turns microblogging into posting paragraphs. 05:52:18 (note: Twitter considers Unicode codepoints "characters", rather than bytes as characters.) 06:02:53 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:04:33 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 06:20:24 -!- acetoline has quit (*.net *.split). 06:20:28 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 06:20:56 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 06:21:03 -!- Leonidas has quit (*.net *.split). 06:21:11 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 06:21:20 -!- dbc has quit (*.net *.split). 06:21:22 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (*.net *.split). 06:21:32 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 06:21:41 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 06:21:44 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 06:32:05 I still am obsessed with Erlang 06:32:11 It seems like it would be a good fit for AW bots 06:32:47 Feel free to use it; the runtime environment is much more good than the language is bad. 06:34:02 I secretly wish my project was in Erlang, or at least on its VM, rather than C# 06:53:18 Ah, so Erlang is the language where it avoids having arrows like => and <= for the comparisons 06:56:19 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:04:27 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 07:05:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:18:18 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:22:43 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:25:22 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 07:27:27 http://learnyousomeerlang.com/static/img/circular-dependencies.png 07:32:24 "However (there is always a 'however'), only andalso and orelse can be nested inside guards. This means (A orelse B) andalso C is a valid guard, while (A; B), C is not. " 07:32:35 * Sgeo starts gibbering like an idiot 07:43:05 -!- Oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:43:35 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:48:12 * Sgeo suddenly sees how a process can store state in Erlang 07:48:37 I don't know if it's the typical way, nor what the typical way even looks like, but: 07:49:09 It just recurses. The argument is the state. The body contains a receive that can modify if needed, then passes the modified thing as an argument into the next ... call 07:50:51 That is the typical way, yes. 07:51:17 It's essentially the standard way of handling "state" in functional languages, except with messages thrown into the mix. 07:52:26 Though, given Erlang actually not being referentially transparent, it really seems to me that at a minimum they should have sugar for that. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:34 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:03:02 -!- sftp has joined. 08:05:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 08:11:11 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:22:32 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:22:32 -!- dbc has joined. 08:22:32 -!- ineiros has joined. 08:22:32 -!- 92AAB6JPB has joined. 08:22:32 -!- fizzie has joined. 08:22:32 -!- coppro has joined. 08:22:32 -!- lambdabot has joined. 08:22:32 -!- Leonidas has joined. 08:24:02 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:25:25 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 08:28:33 "They can do pretty much everything normal functions can do, except calling themselves recursively (how could they do it if they are anonymous?)" 08:28:35 * Sgeo facepalms 08:28:48 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:29:59 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:34:13 -!- 92AAB6JPB has changed nick to acetoline. 08:43:48 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:45:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 08:46:44 Sgeo: wat 08:47:03 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Y. 08:47:07 -!- Y has changed nick to Sgeo. 08:47:12 Y is registered 08:49:22 Now the Lagerholm estimate is today and Houston estimate is February 4th... 09:03:47 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:04:42 -!- choochter has joined. 09:05:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 09:16:48 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 09:23:47 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:25:23 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 09:26:23 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:30:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:34:06 -!- myndzi has joined. 09:35:01 \o| \o/ \m/ \m/ \o/ |o/ 09:35:01 | | `\o/´ | | 09:35:02 /| /`\ | /´\ >\ 09:35:02 /´\ 09:35:02 (_| |_) 09:43:27 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:43:29 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 09:43:46 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:45:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 09:51:02 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:53:35 Why are those four other guys floating in the air? 09:53:36 -!- myndzi has joined. 09:53:44 Well, maybe it's just a perspective thing. 09:56:34 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:05:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 10:11:45 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:23:45 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:25:21 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 10:29:48 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:15:37 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 11:16:30 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:23:22 \m/ \o/ 11:23:22 | 11:23:22 |\ 11:23:40 \o\ /o/ 11:23:40 | | 11:23:40 /| >\ 11:23:55 \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ 11:24:16 * lifthrasiir disappointed 11:24:39 you need extra spacing outside the \m/ \m/ 11:24:39 `\o/´ 11:24:39 | 11:24:39 /'¯|_) 11:24:39 (_| 11:24:56 see how one foot extends beyond it 11:25:13 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined. 11:26:14 \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ 11:26:14 `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´ `\o/´ 11:26:15 | | | | 11:26:15 /'\ (_|¯`¯|_) /`\ (_|¯`\ 11:26:15 (_| |_) (_| |_) |_) 11:26:22 ha! 11:27:25 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:28:39 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:31:16 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:33:58 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:35:34 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 11:42:42 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:42:42 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 11:52:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 11:53:57 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:55:34 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 11:57:56 -!- choochter has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:18:19 -!- acetoline has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:42:03 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:43:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:52:01 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:52:22 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:54:15 -!- aloril_ has joined. 12:54:55 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:56:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 13:04:44 -!- cal153 has joined. 13:14:55 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:16:31 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 13:26:53 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 13:34:54 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:36:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 13:54:53 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:56:30 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 14:10:55 -!- elliott has joined. 14:11:22 OK, who broke the logs? 14:11:32 Oh, there they are. 14:13:18 01:22:07 elliott: perhaps MC is addictive and fun 14:13:18 01:22:09 elliott: but a deadly drug could be addictive and fun too 14:13:18 01:22:11 elliott: so your argument is invalid 14:13:19 oh please 14:14:53 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:15:41 03:08:53 Gregor, if you see something about CitiVille on my wall in a few minutes, don't be alarmed 14:15:41 03:09:04 I plan on preventing it from posting if possible 14:15:41 03:09:46 Sgeo: Thank you for the update on things I don't give one flying fuck about. 14:15:43 saved for posterity 14:16:08 03:20:04 You *do* realise that we're in here because we claim to enjoy esoteric programming languages, right? :) 14:16:08 03:20:18 pikhq: you're in here, maybe. 14:16:08 03:21:10 quintopia: right, and I find the Game of Life to be getting boring. This is all consistent. 14:16:12 Mathnerd314: you are really the worst, not sure if you knew that 14:17:27 03:25:11 pikhq: my point is that most people's idea of "fun" is destructive 14:17:28 you are full of shit 14:17:38 -!- j-invariant has joined. 14:17:55 04:32:10 pikhq: I know enough to pretend 14:17:55 NOBODY UNDERSTANDS MY AUTISM BUT I CAN PRETEND TO HAVE EMOTIONS 14:18:00 ^^^^ internet self-diagnosis in action 14:18:51 05:43:16 Are there any non-Go languages with Go-like channels? 14:18:51 Sgeo: Go's channels are just CSP. 14:26:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:30:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:30:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:35:09 -!- choochter has joined. 14:36:38 http://i.imgur.com/Mb483.jpg 14:59:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:59:17 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:04:11 -!- zeotrope has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:28:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:32:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:36:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:38:21 -!- cheater99 has joined. 15:43:53 Gregor, another reason for you to hate MC: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=144991 15:44:46 Bahaha 15:45:40 ... 15:45:41 Yup 15:45:43 Hatred. 15:45:50 Fucking PACHELBELLLLLLLLLL 15:48:18 Gregor, your views on the Pachelbel Rant? 15:48:49 I read nothing but the title :P 15:48:53 I refuse to read more. 15:49:03 -!- elliott has set topic: PACHELBEL, GOD DAMN | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ and insert tedious clog url here. 15:49:04 Wait, not the video? 15:50:16 I'd assumed you'd have seen the video 15:52:29 wtf is going on with Novell now? 15:54:01 apparently, of the 882 patents they were going to sell, it turns out 19 of them don't exist, and 1 was counted twice 15:54:10 according to the press release, they now have 861 15:54:24 which is quite a failing of mathematics... 15:55:27 It was just patent language? 15:57:55 anyway, the Microsoft consortium that they were going to sell too has demanded that they sell more patents in order to make up for it 15:58:05 which really doesn't make sense, surely the value of patents is not in quantity 15:58:11 or, well, some patents are more valuable than others... 15:58:14 Ilari: lapsed applications 15:59:12 ais523: the new logbot is up, btw 15:59:18 as evidenced by my extreme laziness in setting the topic 15:59:23 indeed 15:59:28 do you not have copy-and-paste? 15:59:34 -!- elliott has set topic: PACHELBEL SUCKS | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ clog clog clog. 15:59:40 (Maybe I sent Pachelbel to hell momentarily.) 15:59:49 ais523: I'd have to check the logs for the topic with clog in it! 15:59:53 And my logs don't go back far enough! 15:59:58 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D 16:00:00 thank you Firefox 16:00:08 Feel free to put it in, but my logs are sooo much better :P 16:00:11 why did you not just check your browser history? 16:00:14 At least once I fix the   thing they will be. 16:00:24 ais523: Laaaze (I set it like that when incredibly tired yesterday) 16:00:25 -!- ais523 has set topic: PACHELBEL SUCKS | logs: http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ (formatted); http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D (unformatted). 16:00:38 the (formatted) (unformatted) dates from the days when cmeme was still running 16:01:10 I plan to import the clog archive into fake plastic raw IRC imitation substitute format so they can be formatted by my interface sometime. 16:01:15 (i.e. translate what little clog logs into IRC.) 16:01:31 http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2011-January/088315.html (list at end) 16:01:51 oerjan: that isn't a list, it's a map or dictionary 16:01:59 ais523: it's a list of pairs 16:02:06 SHEESH 16:02:12 oerjan: it's funny because 16:02:14 we're arguing 16:02:15 SEMANTICS 16:02:19 we need a rimshot bot 16:02:19 ah. 16:02:21 so I can go 16:02:22 !rimshot 16:02:23 and it'll go 16:02:25 ba-dum, TISH! 16:03:10 !add-interp rimshot sh echo "ba-dum, TISH!" 16:03:31 !help 16:03:32 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 16:03:35 oerjan: it's !addinterp 16:03:39 I was just going to do that, but in PM 16:03:45 !addinterp rimshot sh echo "ba-dum, TISH!" 16:03:46 Interpreter rimshot installed. 16:03:48 and was busy looking up the syntax at the time 16:03:54 !rimshot 16:03:55 !rimshot 16:04:00 ba-dum, TISH! 16:04:00 ba-dum, TISH! 16:07:07 _shell_? 16:07:11 how /poseur/ 16:07:14 !delinterp rimshot 16:07:14 Interpreter rimshot deleted. 16:07:21 !bf_txtgen ba-dum, TISH! 16:07:30 it was the first i remembered 16:07:35 144 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++>+++++>++++++<<<<-]>.-.>+++.<+++.+++++++++++++++++.--------.>-.------------.>>.<+++.>-.<-.<+.-----------------------. [704] 16:07:40 !addinterp rimshot bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++>+++++>++++++<<<<-]>.-.>+++.<+++.+++++++++++++++++.--------.>-.------------.>>.<+++.>-.<-.<+.-----------------------. 16:07:40 Interpreter rimshot installed. 16:07:42 !rimshot 16:07:43 ba-dum, TISH! 16:07:46 O KAY 16:07:55 KO AY 16:08:05 O YAK 16:08:43 O, YAK 16:08:45 YAK YAK YAK 16:08:47 YAK, O 16:08:48 O, YAK 16:10:01 * oerjan watches as elliott is trampled by the yak he summoned 16:10:22 beautiful robotic yak simulacrum 16:11:44 robot yak attack? 16:14:08 no 16:14:09 turns out we were wrong about pi http://www2.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=909*x^5+-+3060*x^4+%2B+1814*x^3+-+3389*x^2+-+723*x+-+626 16:14:26 it's not trancendental, it just can't be written in terms of radicals 16:14:59 funny guy 16:14:59 I suspect it's Alpha that's wrong there, rather than the old proofs 16:15:31 * oerjan swats ais523 -----### 16:15:38 ouch! 16:15:42 what have I done to deserve that? 16:15:43 maybe I should submit this to Journal of Number Theory on april 1st 16:15:50 A FEW COMMON DECIMALS DO NOT PI MAKE 16:16:24 hmm, does that fifth-order polynomial just happen to match pi to lots of decimal places? 16:16:33 a good approximation of pi might still be useful 16:16:41 ais523: I computed it on purpose :P 16:17:01 i doubt it's particularly good compared to the size of the polynomial 16:17:14 however, i saw something in r/math yesterday 16:17:47 oh that was also from r/math 16:17:59 er, on 16:18:19 http://mathworld.wolfram.com/eApproximations.html 16:18:54 oerjan: on that note, http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/f4kc0/you_are_never_asked_to_prove_a_negative_then_why/ 16:18:54 that approximation of e _is_ incredibly good 16:19:55 j-invariant: stop trolling :D 16:20:23 elliott: I will teach a course called "Mathematically structured trolling in Agda" 16:20:48 "Also, don't take Ayn Rand too seriously on questions of empirical or philosophical reasoning. She didn't particularly understand either. 16:20:52 " 16:21:12 j-invariant: W|A is not very helpful http://www2.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=pi+-+(root+of+909+x^5-3060+x^4%2B1814+x^3-3389+x^2-723+x-626) 16:22:09 oerjan: hm i know the guy who posted that, wonder if i should tell him he got trolled :) 16:22:28 elliott: no that's jus tmean 16:22:49 elliott: http://www2.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=909*x%5E5+-+3060*x%5E4+%2B+1814*x%5E3+-+3389*x%5E2+-+723*x+-+626+for+x+%3D+pi 16:22:51 i'll let him wallow in his ignorance then :D 16:23:10 oerjan: lol at the alternate form 16:23:13 > let x = pi in http://www2.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=909*x%5E5+-+3060*x%5E4+%2B+1814*x%5E3+-+3389*x%5E2+-+723*x+-+626+for+x+%3D+pi 16:23:14 : parse error on input `=' 16:23:27 argh 16:23:44 oh, hi lambdabot 16:23:45 xD 16:23:48 > let x = pi in 909*x^5 - 3060*x^4 + 1814*x^3 - 3389*x^2 - 723*x - 626 :: CReal 16:23:49 -0.0000000000000000001128309241000195890771 16:23:58 not the most impressive approximation 16:24:11 it's pretty much the best you can do 16:24:16 hm that's different from WA 16:24:22 Pi doesn't want to be approximated by a polynomial 16:24:57 > pi :: CReal 16:24:57 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841972 16:25:13 i suspect WA may not use exact arithmetic there 16:27:00 damn you, stephen 16:29:56 in a quadratic approximation for pi how fast do the constants in the quadratic grow in proportion to the number of digits of precision? 16:30:57 quintopia: it looks just a bit slower than linear 16:31:49 so, like n^1.1? 16:32:16 O(n) 16:32:32 oh, not bad 16:32:56 you can't achieve quadratic convergence with any polynomial though? 16:33:07 *degree 16:33:34 the constant seems to tend towards 1/4 (we would expect it to be <= 1/3) 16:34:25 sorry, which constant is that? 16:34:35 your speech. it is ambiguous. 16:34:45 the constant multiple in the O(n) thing 16:35:04 oh, yes right. 16:35:35 what I mean is, for a 4000 digit approximation, the coefficents are about 100 digits long 16:35:36 i thought you were answering the quadratic convergence question. 16:35:38 sorry 100 16:35:39 sorry 1000 16:36:36 making the degree bigger seems to actually make approximation /harder/ 16:36:53 in other words, expressing pi as a quadratic gives a compression of at least 3/4 16:38:26 -!- cheater00 has joined. 16:39:13 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:39:17 ergo pi is not ranodam! 16:40:15 if you were to choose a random number between pi-eps and pi+eps as eps->0, you'd be very likely to pick pi. 16:40:43 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:40:48 hello! 16:41:07 hi 16:41:07 16:46 < quintopia> if you were to choose a random number between pi-eps and pi+eps as eps->0, you'd be very likely to pick pi. 16:41:11 WAT 16:41:22 elliott: what's the compression factor given by huffman coding? 16:41:28 huffmanny 16:41:40 like 7/10 on truly random data yes? 16:41:42 yeah I think huffman code works well on pi 16:41:58 since pi has more of one digit than another (in the digits we have seen so far) 16:42:50 which digit? 16:43:33 Z 16:44:43 you lie j 16:45:14 the difference in frequency of digits is already insignificant in just the first 10000 16:47:16 "It shows no statistically significant departure from a uniform distribution. " 16:47:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:48:31 since pi has more of one digit than another (in the digits we have seen so far) 16:48:33 missing a negation? 16:48:39 no I was just wrong 16:50:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:58:04 I want to build a mechanical device that computes pi 16:58:36 maybe I could do it in minecraft but I probably don't have enough redstone 16:59:27 j-invariant: just use an inventory editor :P 16:59:45 j-invariant: but it'd be a huge circuit... the cpu was made with a map editor i think 16:59:54 you'll need like, a scrolling display 17:00:02 elliott: this is just one program hard coded, it might be simpler... then again it does need arithmetic 17:00:11 8-bit arithmetic.. 17:00:22 j-invariant: can you do it all with shifts i wonder 17:00:24 bbp that is 17:00:26 hmm maybe 17:00:31 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/3/5/535d2d106b4243d1f9872f916b273c7a.png 17:00:40 yeah that's the thing I was thinking of 17:00:49 have fun :D 17:01:00 I don't think I will do it, it's not obvious how 17:01:40 elliott, the BBP is not as simple as it appears. 17:01:47 Phantom_Hoover: why not 17:01:55 yes it is X) 17:02:42 elliott, the inner bracket is not the 16th digit. 17:03:09 you can derive an alg. from it tohugh 17:03:17 Phantom_Hoover: yeah but just google bbp digit extraction 17:03:22 :D 17:03:28 there's some simple python code for it 17:08:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:08:57 -!- sshc has joined. 17:19:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:26:40 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:30:52 hello 17:31:36 elliott, wait, was mc updated recently? my launcher asked me if I want to update 17:31:39 I'll say no 17:31:51 Vorpal: I think it was just a lol-I-reorganised-the-site thing again 17:31:52 and I don't see anything mentioned anywhere about this update 17:31:54 Or "moved server" or w/e 17:32:04 elliott, but that means reapplying mods? 17:32:14 Well, it's probably what caused me to lose mine. 17:33:13 elliott, the md5sum is the same of my old backup and the new minecraft.jar ... 17:45:29 elliott, I started a new single player world a few days ago. Rather nice scenery. But just took a look at the map of it. Found out I explored both sides of a surface lava lake some 30 blocks from spawn but completely missed the lake itself XD 17:45:32 it is rather large too 17:45:37 Ha 17:45:44 "Python 3 is a commercial disaster. In 2010Q3 I had negative sales of DiP3. More people returned it than bought it. I'm considering retro-fitting the book's content to Python 2.7 and re-releasing it as "Dive Into Python 2." Seriously." --Mark Pilgrim 17:46:17 elliott, though in my defence the terrain is rather hilly, which was part of the reason I stuck to this world instead of throwing it away 17:46:31 who's talking about fences? 17:47:00 ? 17:47:07 it'd be nice if you could choose to start with say a few bits of iron armour, and an iron pickaxe and sword (and only that), plus a small house in a mountain (i.e. just glass wall looking out and a door), and workbench/furnace/single chest 17:47:11 like 17:47:14 i keep playing the same early game all the time 17:47:31 start game on hard, build a house, it's tiny, stay in there for the night, get damn scared, go out the next day, get blown up by a creeper 17:47:32 repeat 17:47:43 it'd be nice to be able to skip it :P 17:48:01 elliott, oh btw there was coal like 20 blocks from spawn, reachable from ground. And a few trees nearby. Plus a perfect site for a very quick side-of-cliff shelter thing 17:48:27 elliott, I mean, I was prepared for the evening (even though I'm on peaceful) before noon of the first day 17:48:49 play on Hard, dammit 17:48:54 i do and i'm a wimp 17:48:55 elliott, no way 17:49:02 hard is just the same as normal :P 17:49:05 just slightly higher enemy hp 17:49:41 elliott, only downside of this world is a lack of pumpkins. I did spot a few just now in a corner of the map (which is rather small atm) 17:49:55 pumpkins = useless :P 17:50:12 elliott, they are nice to have still. Besides they aren't for underwater building 17:50:20 * elliott sets clock forward to play LIGHTSPEED MINECRAFT 17:50:25 and the lake near this place look large and deep enough for that sort of stuff 17:50:30 Vorpal: also, -minecraft dammit :P 17:50:37 oh right 17:50:38 as fizzie points out, -minecraft just discussed erlang 17:50:40 WE NEED TO REVERSE THIS 17:59:19 on-topic/off-topic channels always swap places 17:59:49 also, I am inches away from working preemption of user processes, I'm going to start IPC:ing after that 18:07:48 elliott, is Go a decent language?/ 18:08:09 Sgeo: Can you start trying to answer questions before bothering others with them? 18:21:21 elliott: that's not how it works. obviously. 18:21:28 Going to try Planeshift again 18:21:32 olsner: wut 18:21:47 elliott, I _think_ I like Go's concurrency stuff 18:21:53 As I said, it's just CSP. 18:22:06 What other CSP languages are there? 18:22:19 * Sgeo googles 18:23:30 Any modern languages other than Go? I don't see any 18:29:48 Vorpal, do you too think Erlang is bad? 18:30:15 Vorpal likes Erlang but I don't think he's as liking of it as he used to be :P 18:35:26 Sgeo, no not really. But sure it has it's flaws. Mostly syntax ones. 18:36:22 elliott, I think that *every* non-trivial language have some flaws or ugly parts. Some simpler DSL can manage okay but that is all 18:36:35 Certainly, but Erlang has a big ol' bag of shittiness :P 18:36:50 elliott, not much more than haskell. And quite a bit less than C. 18:36:54 Such as taking Prolog's syntax, perverting it, and then using it despite the fact that the language has no relation whatsoever to Prolog and it thus makes no sense whatsoever. 18:37:08 Vorpal: It has side-effects, and is dynamically typed, that's like worth 100 shits more than Haskell. 18:37:20 elliott, actually the first version of erlang was implemented in prolog 18:37:31 Yes, but the language is unrelated... and that was a stupid choice of implementation language. 18:37:37 elliott, indeed. 18:37:43 Seriously though, I don't mind Prolog syntax in Prolog, but Erlang syntax is just ghastly :P 18:38:04 Sgeo: Anyway, Erlang is basically CSP. 18:38:15 And it has HOTSWAPPING 18:38:17 elliott, erlang syntax is a bit idiosyncratic. 18:38:22 elliott, CSP? 18:38:23 Vorpal: And shit :P 18:38:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communicating_sequential_processes 18:38:37 elliott, ah that yes 18:38:38 Model used by Go and mostly by Erlang. 18:38:45 Occam is basically CSP: The Language. 18:38:58 elliott, I just didn't recognise the acronym 18:40:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4DZwYqnyJM&feature=related Oh holy crap. 18:41:09 Qumranet, BTW, is now owned by Red Hat. 18:42:36 "Seriously? You're asking if you can do four screens, full motion video, flash, and skype over a 128Kb connection? 18:42:36 Of﻿ course you know the answer to that!" 18:42:37 So, yes? 18:42:51 elliott: So, yes. 18:43:02 I doubt :P 18:43:13 Well, probably not actually a 128kb connection. 18:43:28 has anyone actually implemented teh pure pi calculus? 18:43:40 But just getting it going over a 100Mb/s LAN is quite impressive. 18:43:57 Admittedly, I have noooo idea how to compute anything with the pi calculus :P 18:44:05 elliott: ooh, discussing pi calculus? 18:44:09 "Although the minimalism of the π-calculus prevents us from writing programs in the normal sense, it is easy to extend the calculus. In particular, it is easy to define both control structures such as recursion, loops and sequential composition and datatypes such as first-order functions, truth values, lists and integers." 18:44:14 So is the pi calculus TC by itself? 18:44:17 I think so, security researchers use it all the time 18:44:19 Or do you need some extra magic? 18:44:22 wrt being implemented 18:49:12 -!- choochter has quit (Quit: lang may yer lum reek..). 18:57:42 i'm going to invade galois 18:57:45 meanwhile 18:58:01 ais523: Figured out what I should implement next in sg? :-P It seems like I could implement any one of 100 things but it's not clear which would be best... 18:58:19 sounds like my NetHack TAS 18:58:23 and no 18:58:28 aww :( 19:00:39 s/sg/sgeo/ 19:01:31 Sgeo: no. 19:03:59 -!- pingveno has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:07:58 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 19:08:07 -!- dbc has quit (*.net *.split). 19:08:27 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 19:08:49 -!- cal153 has quit (*.net *.split). 19:08:57 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 19:09:14 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 19:09:21 -!- Leonidas has quit (*.net *.split). 19:09:26 -!- asiekierka has quit (*.net *.split). 19:09:36 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:09:44 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (*.net *.split). 19:09:44 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split). 19:09:51 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:01 -!- Ilari has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:05 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:05 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:20 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:27 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:32 -!- hiato has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:34 -!- mycroftiv has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:54 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 19:14:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 19:14:05 -!- pingveno has joined. 19:14:05 -!- asiekierka has joined. 19:14:05 -!- elliott has joined. 19:14:05 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 19:14:05 -!- cal153 has joined. 19:14:05 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:14:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:14:05 -!- Leonidas has joined. 19:14:05 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:14:05 -!- coppro has joined. 19:14:05 -!- fizzie has joined. 19:14:05 -!- ineiros has joined. 19:14:05 -!- dbc has joined. 19:14:05 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has joined. 19:14:05 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 19:14:05 -!- hiato has joined. 19:14:05 -!- Ilari has joined. 19:14:05 -!- mycroftiv has joined. 19:14:05 -!- EgoBot has joined. 19:14:05 -!- HackEgo has joined. 19:15:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:15:14 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 19:15:16 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 19:15:32 -!- acetoline has joined. 19:16:11 holy crap 4-dimensional raytracing 19:16:11 brilliant 19:16:49 ouch 19:17:42 coppro, hmm? 19:18:41 coppro, link? 19:22:47 pooppy: ... magic? 19:23:44 Poopy magic. 19:23:47 The best kind of magic. 19:24:22 *Pooppy 19:25:23 -!- asiekierka_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:31:00 * Sgeo ponders learing Scala again 19:31:07 Anyone remember why I put it down last time? 19:31:26 I suspect it might be elliott-related reasons 19:31:38 jesus christ 19:31:57 hey Gregor convert your hg logs to utc thanks 19:32:19 elliott: All they are is a dump of the clog logs, do it yourself. 19:32:35 Gregor: customer service rating: 0/1000 19:32:43 that might become 0/10000 real quick 19:32:48 elliott: You are not a customer. 19:32:58 really? Then why am I paying you all this money? 19:33:08 All \$0? :P 19:33:26 OH, wait, no, that's going to organised crime, not you. 19:33:36 You know, that other Gregor Richards. The one who's a drug dealer. 19:33:47 What I'm saying, Google, is: GREGOR RICHARDS IS A DRUG DEALER CODU.ORG 19:33:48 Oh yeah 19:33:50 We're good buds. 19:33:56 GREGOR RICHARDS SELLS DRUGS TO PEOPLE FOR MONEY 19:34:02 CODU.ORG CODU.ORG CODU.ORG 19:34:26 Hey now. 19:34:32 I don't sell drugs to people for money. 19:34:35 I only accept sexual favors. 19:34:38 They're FREE! 19:34:38 Oh. 19:51:55 -!- j-invariant has joined. 19:52:34 ais523: does this function do what I'd expect in perl? 19:52:40 sub foo { @_[0] =~ s/foo/bar/ } 19:52:41 e.g. 19:52:46 foo "hellofoo" ==> "hellobar" 19:53:02 I can't remember 19:53:07 mutating arguments is a bit weird 19:53:12 you could try it and find out 19:53:27 ah, I think you might need a prototype 19:53:37 I don't actually want to mutate :P 19:53:38 most weird things wrt sub arguments do that 19:53:43 sub strip_brackets { substr @_[0], 1, -1 } 19:53:46 That should be good enough. 19:55:15 assigning to @_ does indeed mutate the args 19:55:26 nasty :) 19:55:29 that is, to elements 19:55:40 you can use the my \$arg = shift; pattern to make copies, most people do 19:56:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:50 Io needs better documentation 20:03:39 I told you that at the start and you didn't listen. 20:04:13 I don't remember that, just your gripe about no rules 20:05:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 20:18:07 Back. 20:18:53 Front. 20:19:37 Left. 20:22:13 Well, he sure wasn't here very long. 20:22:16 BA-DUM CHING 20:27:34 elliott, I don't think anyone's quite explained to me why Clojure is considered so bad 20:27:42 I'm sure I've asked multiple times 20:27:46 maybe my memory is failing 20:29:25 Yah, you see, nobody wants to bother explaining to you when you'll act the same whether it's explained or not. 20:30:02 Clojure is what? 20:30:28 oh yeah "Instead of implementing a standarised lisp ill invent my own 'cool' 'new' version" 20:31:27 elliott, this channel's opinion has more influence than it deserves over whether or not I decide to look into a language 20:31:30 Racket is to Scheme is to Lisp as ... :P 20:31:59 * Sgeo fails to parse Gregor's analogy 20:32:29 j-invariant: hey that's what I do :D 20:32:35 that's what the Racket guys ended up doing too 20:32:43 clojure is just a bad language though 20:32:46 Scheme is a dialect of Lisp. Racket is a dialect of Scheme. Clojure is a dialect of Lisp. All of them suffer from the same problem: Lisp is fucking terrible. 20:33:01 haha 20:33:36 Gregor, wait, since when was Lisp a Bad Thing? 20:34:13 Well, more to the point, it sucks to see things that are in the Lisp family when you're in language design, because basically it's easy to do lots of things when the programmer just hands you an AST. 20:34:26 Why these people are so afraid of syntax is beyond me. 20:34:52 wbat :D 20:35:31 Although all these dialects of Lisp slowly add tidbits of syntax to it, fundamentally Lisp is "I'm too lazy to parse, give me the AST." 20:35:42 Gregor: Incidentally, you're wrong. 20:35:54 Or, at least, have never tried writing a macro that operates on, oh, JavaScript's AST. 20:36:04 Nonono, this is my very point! 20:36:18 (I also wonder how you can like JavaScript when the only reason JavaScript doesn't have Scheme's syntax is that Brendan Eich wasn't /allowed/ to use a non-Java-like syntax.) 20:36:27 That kind of thing is easier exactly because Lisp has no syntax. "Code is data" is easy when your code is a friggin' tree. 20:36:36 Yes... and that's an advantage of Lisp. 20:36:47 Whether you think that worth the tradeoff or not is personal. 20:36:49 Lispers do. 20:36:58 Of course it is, I'm presenting an opinion here. 20:37:04 Nimrod has syntax but can manipulate the tree 20:37:08 Don't know how easily 20:37:15 Gregor: Yes, but you're portraying Lisp as based on laziness which is just... dumb. 20:37:35 elliott: God I love the complete inability to understand humor :P 20:38:00 Gregor: Well, evidently Phantom_Hoover missed the humour, and j-invariant's typo'd attempt at "what :D" seemed at least a little uncertain. 20:38:09 It is worth considering that your American blend of humour is neither funny nor detectable :P 20:38:25 Well, more to the point, it sucks to see things that are in the Lisp family when you're in language design, because basically it's easy to do lots of things when the programmer just hands you an AST. 20:38:29 ^^ This strikes me as jealousy :P 20:38:49 Also, "good" Racket code has very, very little in common with "good" R5RS code. 20:38:55 So saying Racket is a dialect of Scheme is tenuous at best. 20:39:07 But anyway, more to the point, I feel that that ends up hindering some developments in language design, because every time somebody introduces a powerful macro system or similar for a very different language, some LischePLTrackjure guy trolls "well has X, why doesn't yours durpadurp" 20:39:50 Gregor: The Smug Lisp Weenie is intensely irritating but mostly fictional outside of the more idiotic parts of IRC and blog comments. 20:40:08 elliott: You should give a presentation at a language design conference some time. 20:40:28 Gregor: No, thank you. 20:40:31 :P 20:40:33 Now let me try and find the appropriate bit of copypasta for the occasion. 20:40:52 I can't find it :-( 20:41:05 Now to watch the DS9 episode that I accidentally skipped 20:41:13 Gregor: Meanwhile: "Given that mathematics is universal, lambda calculus is universal. The lambda notation is about the simplest that we can imagine to represent computation. LISP is a computer language based on this notation. Therefore it seems a strong possibility to me that alien computer scientists have something very much like LISP, or Scheme." 20:41:20 * elliott facepalms forever. 20:41:44 ... aliens totes are human dude. 20:41:50 They just have rubber foreheads. 20:41:55 And the top-voted answer is affirmative, by Matt Might, which upsets me because Matt Might is cool. 20:42:01 Gregor: Sgeo knows this 20:42:04 That is why he is watching DS9. 20:42:08 X-D 20:42:09 RESEARCH. 20:42:12 lol 20:42:14 XENOPSYCHOLOGY. 20:42:18 Xenupsychology. 20:42:26 Oh my god I want a degree in Xenupsychology. 20:42:38 X-D 20:43:15 I CANNOT FIND THE LISP ALIEN COPYPASTA GOD DAMN. 20:43:36 Oh, I finally remember the name :P 20:44:05 ...and still can't fucking find it 20:51:04 Related: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/gpicarcher.png 20:52:18 Gregor: I... what... it's so beautiful but I... 20:52:25 I CANNOT FIND THE LISP ALIEN COPYPASTA GOD DAMN. <-- ? 20:52:39 Vorpal: The suave yoshi lisp. 20:52:47 elliott, what on earth is that 20:52:57 elliott: http://spamusers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13529 20:53:02 Gregor: I... what... it's so beautiful but I... <-- weird, but /not/ beautiful 20:53:03 Specifically, the merger of the suave yoshi lisp with the tablecat that I ONCE SAW 20:53:11 THE WORLD IS MADE OUT OF PICARD 20:53:14 just very wtf 20:53:24 also macabre 20:53:29 * Sgeo hears of REBOL 20:53:45 elliott, some redshirt cut off his head and put it on an arrowhead? 20:53:48 macabre 20:53:55 It's Picard ... 20:54:00 elliott, it's his head 20:54:14 Picard shooting Picard heads with his Picard head hands, what is the problem 20:54:36 Sgeo: Read the entire archives of http://arcanesentiment.blogspot.com/. Not only do they contain helpful opinions on languages, but by gosh, they even have *reasoning*, and to boot, you'll GET SOME GODDAMN TASTE IN LANGUAGES WITHOUT HAVING TO ASK US. 21:00:23 elliott, that blog looks very interesting 21:00:51 Vorpal: The archives are all great and new posts, while slow to arrive, are almost always interesting. 21:01:12 elliott, I'll bookmark it I think 21:01:16 I'm not sure how I came across it -- it's on the Loper OS blogroll, but I read it before I noticed that -- but I've read it since. 21:01:20 *ever since. 21:01:59 elliott, I never looked at blogging, how do those blogrolls work? Just a link list to other blogs you like? 21:02:04 Vorpal: Yep :P 21:02:12 It's just yet another blogosphere blogannoying term. 21:02:18 elliott, so a fancy name that just obscures the actual purpose 21:02:31 Blogosphere linkvlog blogtastic blogmother bloggery. 21:02:44 elliott, it's like those weird things, forgot the word... not "trackbacks" but something similare 21:02:47 similar* 21:02:53 which gives strange comments sometimes 21:02:59 Linkback? 21:03:09 elliott, could be but I don't think so 21:03:14 Be more specific :P 21:04:08 elliott, well I never figured out what they were for, but sometimes you see comments that are entirely link, the text being some phrase like someone talking about the blog post you just read. 21:04:17 and which goes to another blog or something such 21:04:21 just... strange 21:04:26 Vorpal: Trackback, surely. 21:04:34 A trackback is one of three types of linkbacks, methods for Web authors to request notification when somebody links to one of their documents. This enables authors to keep track of who is linking, and so referring, to their articles. Some weblog software programs, such as Wordpress, Drupal and Movable Type, support automatic pingbacks where all the links in a published article can be pinged when the article is published. The term is used colloqui 21:04:35 ally for any kind of linkback. 21:04:35 elliott, oh so it was that then? 21:04:55 Yeah, trackbacks are almost never valuable... if you really want to say that you've written a post in reply, make a fucking comment :P 21:04:58 elliott, "pinged"? 21:05:11 in this context it is confusing 21:05:12 Vorpal: WE CAN OVERLOAD AS MUCH TERMINOLOGY AS WE WANT WE'RE WEB 1.99999 VISIONEERS 21:05:23 visioneers==vision+engineer+ENERGY 21:05:26 +s 21:05:27 elliott, hah at web 1.999999 :P 21:05:42 elliott, well I don't get what *these* pings do anyway 21:05:43 Vorpal: We don't believe that 1.9 recurring equals 2. 1.9 recurring offers...infinite possibilities. 21:05:48 2.0 is so restricting. 21:05:55 :D 21:07:14 In which Quadrescence tells /r/lisp they need to add his stupid post to the sidebar: http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/f3feh/i_changed_the_links_in_the_right_side_bar_what_do/c1d0539 21:07:51 (Bonus: Pretending to KNOW MATH by way of superfluous LaTeX and Greek letters.) 21:08:14 (And an irritating uppercase Lisp style, and an irritating strawman-dialogue-based format.) 21:09:01 elliott, hm does haskell have any function in prelude for ∏ ? Yes it is trivial with some fold but since it has sum as a shorthand for folding with (+) basically... 21:09:15 Pi types are just dependent functions, silly! 21:09:20 Vorpal: (Yes, it's called product.) 21:09:26 factorial n = product [1..n] 21:09:27 elliott, incidentally, my Good Deed For The Week is pointing APT Guy at Learn You a Haskell. 21:09:37 Phantom_Hoover: Doesn't he hate functional programming? 21:09:38 elliott, I meant ∏ as in product the way ∑ is the sum! 21:09:41 elliott, ah right 21:09:52 elliott, I tried prod and didn't work (of course) 21:10:03 Vorpal: Yeah, ∑ is the symbol for sum types, what of it?! 21:10:06 elliott, I just couldn't imagine haskell using a longer name for it 21:10:14 If you want the non-dependent version, which is all you can get in Haskell, just use a tuple! 21:10:15 elliott, well, he seemed more to have tried it and not liked it very much. 21:10:18 Vorpal: Seriously? 21:10:20 Lots of Haskell names are long. 21:10:22 elliott, yes yes it is overloaded 21:10:27 elliott, true but not those common ones 21:10:32 Which doesn't necessarily make him *hate* it. 21:10:35 Product isn't very common :P 21:10:37 elliott, foldl vs. foldleft or such 21:10:45 Well, yes. 21:10:50 has anyone actually implemented teh pure pi calculus? <-- possibly Pict, by haskell guy benjamin pierce et al. 21:10:51 elliott, uh it is? As a math operation... 21:11:13 http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/papers/pict/Html/Pict.html 21:11:21 Vorpal: Not all code is numeric. 21:11:30 * oerjan is in the backscroll 21:11:38 elliott, also foldl1 vs. foldleftusingfirstarg 21:11:51 elliott, and I don't think I ever actually used foldl1 :P 21:11:55 Haskell uses camel-case, you silly. 21:11:58 foldl1 is rarely useful. 21:12:03 foldl is almost never useful though, vs foldl'. 21:12:09 elliott, indeed 21:12:10 (Well, it depends.) 21:12:21 Haskell Integers suck because they're strict :( 21:12:21 HOW THE HELL DOES GOOGLE WORK? O_O 21:12:22 elliott, foldr1 then. Never used that either 21:12:28 Vorpal: Good, because it doesn't exist. 21:12:30 :t foldr1 21:12:31 forall a. (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> a 21:12:32 Oh. 21:12:33 Never mind. 21:12:38 j-invariant: MAGIC 21:12:40 elliott, see! It is that useless :P 21:12:42 oerjan: NOT PURE 21:12:58 oerjan: also, say no to backscroll, use convenient, low-fat formatted logs! http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ 21:13:01 ALL THANKS TO NOTCH'S DEAD BROTHER 21:13:11 elliott, and foldl' which is rather useful *is not in Prelude*. This is just silly 21:13:17 :t foldl' 21:13:18 forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a 21:13:20 Sure it is ... 21:13:27 Wait, no. 21:13:27 elliott, wait, did that change recently? 21:13:30 Yeah, it's in Data.List. 21:13:33 Rebsites? Really? 21:13:39 But Data.List is a must-have anyway :P 21:13:59 Vorpal: The trend is more towards shrinking the Prelude anyway. 21:14:04 elliott, yes indeed. But really it should be in Prelude. Or plain foldl/foldr should be in Data.List 21:14:05 (Although that hasn't happened for backwards-compat reasons.) 21:14:10 currently it is inconsistent 21:14:16 Vorpal: No way, foldl/foldr are useful in every single program ever :P 21:14:24 OK you're probably right. 21:14:28 elliott, and foldl' is useful in every other program :P 21:14:28 But a featureless Prelude would suck. 21:14:41 elliott, I mean, is asking for some sort of consistency too much? 21:14:47 Yes. 21:15:03 Do what I do, use functions and if you get a "lol what is this" error add more modules until it works. 21:15:07 elliott, and yes I don't really think that foldl/foldr should be in Data.List. But then I don't think foldl' should be either 21:15:19 elliott, haha 21:16:05 HOW THE HELL DOES GOOGLE WORK? O_O <-- why did you ask that now? 21:16:30 Interestingly if you replace GHC's error messages beyond the file and line number and the relevant identifiers mentioned with Lorem Ipsum, the productivity of Haskell programmers is not affected in the slightest. 21:16:30 j-invariant, also, stupid AI basically. 21:16:39 (weak stupid AI) 21:18:18 elliott, that would almost be true. Not quite. When I got syntax error it was actually rather helpful once 21:18:22 Vorpal: that means nothing 21:18:25 elliott, but otherwise it is usually not. 21:18:31 Vorpal: That is unheard of. 21:18:36 j-invariant, it means something, but not very much :P 21:18:37 You will have to repeat it in scientifically-valid experimental conditions. 21:18:44 Otherwise it's pure anecdote. 21:19:18 elliott, it was something like forgetting a - in the -> in a type signature iirc 21:19:28 elliott, some simple typo like that 21:19:28 Oh my god I want a degree in Xenupsychology. <-- HEY I'M SURE ALL YOU NEED TO GET STARTED IS TO BE A FAITHFUL SCIENTOLOGIST FOR A FEW DECADES 21:19:37 elliott, or perhaps the > of it 21:19:58 elliott, also iirc it gave rather useful error message when I had a case of unmatched [ 21:20:21 elliott, so I maintain that it can give useful help for trivial syntax errors. But not for any other errors 21:21:48 so wait what are you writing 21:22:06 elliott, right now? English 21:22:12 i mean that you need product for 21:22:36 elliott, oh. Just tried to work out a simple equation :P 21:22:53 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:22:59 elliott, closed the window, so won't copy what I wrote 21:23:10 and I have it on paper 21:23:19 Vorpal: How much TNT you need to blow up the Cube when it's done? 21:23:22 (not the code but the equation) 21:23:27 elliott, no :P 21:23:34 elliott, this was university related. 21:23:37 Thank god for LavaLite Inc's patented TNT Prevention System, integrated into all LavaLite lighting products. 21:23:38 bbl 21:23:59 elliott, you mean that it won't destory lava? Well indeed it won't I think 21:24:03 should protect like water does 21:24:06 Vorpal: Lava stops TNT. 21:24:13 elliott, yes indeed. 21:24:19 So the most you can destroy of the Cube with one detonation without, like, going up the stairs is a floor. 21:24:26 (And most likely less than that.) 21:24:29 elliott, will destroy a lot sideways 21:24:40 Sure, but the damage will be very localised. 21:24:49 elliott, anyway Ḯ'm not you. I don't do this kind of stuff 21:24:58 elliott, I do not blow up for other people 21:25:03 CUBE INDUSTRIES TAKES NO CHANCES. 21:25:15 elliott, no longer HHI? I see 21:25:25 The Cube has never been HHI property. 21:25:35 Also, Cube Industries is at war with Hoover Heavy Industries. And always has been! 21:25:36 elliott: Lava is more destructable than bedrock. 21:25:45 elliott, "always". Right 21:25:54 pikhq: Can you destroy lava with only about 6-7 height to do it in? 21:26:00 Possibly even a little bit less? 21:26:20 pikhq: (126x126 floor space, but that's not really relevant.) 21:26:33 Lessee. Block resistance of 500... 21:27:03 -!- impomatic has left (?). 21:27:28 Vorpal: No way, foldl/foldr are useful in every single program ever :P <-- foldr yes, but maybe foldl and foldl' should have switched places 21:27:39 oerjan, indeed 21:27:53 yeah 21:27:54 If you manage to get a 7-height high tower of TNT to be all primed simultaneously, you can destroy a single block of lava. 21:28:03 oerjan: otoh putting strict things in the stdlib feels wrong 21:28:06 and this includes Integers :) 21:28:13 pikhq: Consider that it's actually 21:28:14 GLASS 21:28:14 LAVA 21:28:15 GLASS 21:28:16 pikhq: above. 21:28:27 pikhq: So it'd have to puncture the glass, *and* the lava, *and* glass to affect the floor above. 21:28:31 Oh, there's glass in the way? 21:28:34 Yes. 21:28:36 You'll need much more TNT. 21:28:40 why is there no foldr' 21:28:45 well of course it doesn't make sense 21:28:46 Lava sandwiched in-between glass for ceilings. 21:28:46 but still 21:28:51 Oh, technically you can puncture one floor. 21:28:52 for completeness 21:28:54 Lava is only every two floors. 21:29:06 Vorpal: No :P 21:29:08 BTW, I'm presuming you mean *stationary* lava; flowing lava has a block resistance of 0. 21:29:11 WHY ISN'T THERE A FOLDR1' 21:29:13 Not that that matters much. :P 21:29:19 elliott, it is so unsymmetric 21:29:23 pikhq: Stationary, yes. 16 thousand of it every two floors. 21:29:37 Vorpal: Clearly there should be one "fold" function, that takes a fold specifier. 21:29:38 elliott: That gigantic Sphere O' TNT would do a number on it. 21:29:45 pikhq: It wouldn't fit into that height. 21:29:52 pikhq, what sphere? 21:29:58 elliott, hah 21:30:03 Vorpal: The one that put a hole in the bedrock. 21:30:09 pikhq, link? 21:30:36 Vorpal: data FoldDirection = Left | Right / data Fold = Fold { direction :: FoldDirection, one :: Bool, isStrict :: Bool } 21:30:36 * pikhq tries to find again 21:30:44 OH WAIT 21:30:57 Vorpal: data FoldDirection = Left | Right / data Fold a = Fold { direction :: FoldDirection, base :: Maybe a, isStrict :: Bool } 21:31:06 (Nothing for base to get fold*1) 21:31:18 hah 21:31:22 Oh wait, the types of the function differ for each. 21:31:23 I GIVE UP 21:31:48 Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFZKtvHQSNY 21:31:56 pikhq, anyway bedrock have higher resistance than fluids. You wouldn't as much TNT to blow up obsidian for example. Fluid: even less 21:32:25 Vorpal: Yes, but if it puts a hole in the *fucking bedrock*, it's going to destroy fluids. 21:32:36 pikhq, yes but it will be overkill :P 21:32:45 ... And? 21:32:58 Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFZKtvHQSNY <-- nice music during the title screen! 21:33:28 and this includes Integers :) <-- well if you make integers lazy i think it's not quite obvious exactly how lazy they should be 21:34:09 oerjan: data Nat = Z | S Nat / data Integer = MinusS Nat | Zero | PosS Nat 21:34:17 -!- acetoline has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:34:18 oerjan: can it _get_ any lazier? hmm maybe sign could be made lazy? 21:34:46 data Pos = One | Succ Pos; data Sign = Negative | Positive; data Integer = Zero | Signed Sign Pos 21:34:50 pikhq, in fact extremely nice music in that video! 21:35:00 that guy have good taste 21:35:07 oerjan: or even just type Integer = (Nat, Nat) representing (a-b) :P 21:35:13 a la rationals 21:35:22 * Mathnerd314 scrolls 21:35:33 Scrolls... what, exactly 21:36:22 why is there no foldr' <-- i guess it's less useful because you end up recursing on the stack anyway, unless you actually build a reversed list first 21:37:19 oerjan, I was joking a bit. :P 21:38:25 pikhq, hm... the free-altitude water and lava lake generation can punch holes in the bedrock. Could perhaps that hole have been caused by that? 21:39:53 Vorpal: The thing is, bedrock actually does have finite TNT resistance... 21:40:02 And the hole is right at the epicenter of the explosion. 21:40:07 Vorpal: That seems incredibly unlikely given what pikhq said. 21:40:11 And considering it's the ONLY hole. 21:40:11 elliott: the chat window, to the place where you reply 21:40:25 Mathnerd314: ...why did you tell us that? 21:40:29 Vorpal: Also it's from December. 21:40:33 Vorpal: So pre-lava-lakes-anywhere. 21:40:34 elliott, ah okay 21:40:44 oerjan: can it _get_ any lazier? hmm maybe sign could be made lazy? <-- it's not that it can get lazier but that the maximally lazy choices are not _unique_, in my view 21:40:50 elliott, which was added in mid-december 21:40:54 elliott: because someone else told me, and I liked knowing 21:41:01 oerjan: well no, but as long as it _is_ maximally lazy 21:41:11 or more precisely, not canonical 21:41:14 Mathnerd314: can't you reply wherever you are? i haven't seen a client which scrolls the input line. 21:41:21 oerjan: well nor are various things in the Prelude 21:41:41 "data Bool = False | True", why not "data Bool = Bool (Maybe ())" 21:44:21 heh 21:44:52 well apart from the fact that the latter has more values than the former 21:44:59 former has three, latter has four 21:45:05 * elliott waits for Vorpal to go wtf 21:45:32 no they both have infinitely many :D 21:45:45 (well in ghc, not in haskell98) 21:45:47 oerjan: isn't it generally assumed that all bottoms are equal 21:45:53 ? 21:46:03 if you don't mean that i don't know what you do mean 21:46:13 something to do with exception catching maybe? 21:46:27 elliott: they developed a theory of imprecise exception precisely to distinguish those 21:46:32 *exceptions 21:46:39 how does it have infinite values then? 21:46:45 oh wait, to distinguish them? 21:46:46 facepalm 21:46:57 yep 21:47:07 oerjan: who came up with that, if it's not oleg, i'm going to slap them 21:47:24 one of the big haskell guys, but not oleg iirc 21:47:45 oerjan: augustss? marlow? 21:47:47 spj? 21:47:51 it was to give a mostly pure semantics to exceptions from pure code 21:47:52 * Sgeo is glad he is not photosensitive epileptic 21:47:57 dons? (ha ha yeah right dons does nothing but market (i know this isn't true)) 21:48:13 So wait, how did that TNT thing blow a hole in the bedrock? 21:48:18 oerjan: mostly pure, but only if you're merely somewhat pregnant 21:48:20 I thought TNT damage wasn't accumulative. 21:48:30 Phantom_Hoover: Apparently there is more to TNT than we know. 21:48:43 * elliott waits for Vorpal to go wtf <-- you meant bottom I presume 21:48:50 Vorpal: yes 21:48:50 "A semantics for imprecise exceptions. Simon Peyton Jones, Alastair Reid, Tony Hoare, Simon Marlow, Fergus Henderson." 21:48:58 (True | False) has values [True, False, _|_] 21:49:00 elliott, then I see no reason to go wtf 21:49:15 (Maybe ()) has values [Nothing, Just (), Just _|_, _|_] 21:49:22 hmm can you enumerate such values from within haskell? 21:49:24 oh, obviously 21:49:28 enumeration of () is [(), _|_] 21:49:34 so that enumeration of (Maybe ()) is trivial 21:49:39 elliott, but I think bottom is wrong. It shouldn't exist. 21:49:51 Nothing : map Just enumeration ++ [bottom] 21:49:58 Vorpal: you like sub-TC langs then? 21:50:06 elliott, total programming ftw! 21:50:14 yyeaaaaah :P 21:51:32 elliott, and indeed. Though I strongly suspect that a nice way to do things might be to write as much as you can in a total language and then turn on some special TC-monad (okay I might need to work on that idea) to use in case you need a infinite mainloop that can't just be bound by input length (such as a server) 21:52:21 Partiality monads exist...but er, what you said doesn't really make sense. 21:52:21 Well. 21:52:26 It does if TCness is part of IO... kinda. 21:52:32 But it's a real semantic headache. 21:52:41 You can't just put random shit in monads to wave semantic issues away :P 21:52:45 elliott, well as I said I might need to work on the exact terms 21:52:56 elliott, the idea I have is kind of vague 21:52:56 Also, servers can be done totally. 21:52:58 For instance event-based. 21:53:01 (FRP) 21:53:14 elliott, ah yes heard about that, should probably look closer at FRP 21:53:39 elliott, does it move the main loop magic outside your code or how does it manage to do this totally? 21:54:11 FRP isn't about totalness, it's an entirely separate thing. 21:54:14 But it is teh awsum :P 21:54:22 But, er, the main loop part is, as we say, an implementation detail. 21:54:33 Indeed an OS, for instance, is likely to only have one gigantic main loop, at least conceptually. 21:54:34 elliott, I mean, an obvious solution to the server thing is to do it like some sort of inetd style (but for each byte or whatever). But that just shifts the non-totality elsewhere 21:54:45 It doesn't shift it, it removes it from the language. 21:55:01 elliott, yes but it would end up outside the language still, no? 21:55:06 in the runtime or whatever 21:55:08 Sure :P 21:55:12 CPUs are imperative, hard to avoid that. 21:55:20 elliott, reduceron 21:55:26 Yep. 21:55:31 elliott, not imperative! 21:55:32 -!- cal153 has joined. 21:55:46 I think Reduceron does IO with lazy streams. 21:55:49 So you could build FRP on top of that. 21:55:51 elliott: it wasn't oleg but i recognize at least three big names in there 21:56:01 oerjan: probably all LAME 21:56:02 elliott, that sounds awesome. But what does it mean in practise for hardware 21:56:16 elliott: both simons, and hoare 21:56:17 Vorpal: The Reduceron isn't very fast, I don't think. 21:56:28 Vorpal: Of course the IO port stuff is probably based on polling, as I think it is in every CPU :P 21:56:31 elliott, I meant, what does lazy streams mean in practise at the hardware level 21:56:34 oerjan: BAD 21:56:39 Vorpal: Uhh, very little? 21:56:55 elliott, oh wait, nvm. I confused two concepts :P 21:56:55 Vorpal: The Reduceron does everything as functions (well graph rewrite rules, but), so they mean functions :P 21:58:07 elliott, kind of scary: the first google result for "lazy streams" (without quotes) is "[PDF] Implementing Lazy Streams in C++" 21:58:25 heh 21:58:28 Lazy streams = infinite lists :P 21:58:37 elliott, yes indeed. 21:58:48 elliott, as I said, I googled it because I was confusing it with another concept 21:59:53 elliott, it sucks that google replaced "view as html" with that "Quick View" because "Quick View" just stalls in a progressbar for me and never works 22:00:04 It requires JS. 22:00:09 elliott, I have js on 22:00:20 hey, I got a "broken image" now instead on it 22:00:23 WFM :P But it's shit. 22:00:28 It renders text SUPREMELY badly. 22:00:47 "which will turn the star's carbon and oxygen into elemental hydrogen" 22:01:02 Sgeo: wat 22:01:04 elliott, the old "view as html" was at least good shit. I mean, it let you quickly scan the start, then if you found it interesting you opened the pdf to get the formulas and such to display 22:01:06 I feel like such shit for not being able to get a proof of this theorem 22:01:12 oerjan, Star Trek 22:01:19 oh 22:01:42 well it's certainly not realistic physics afaik 22:01:50 j-invariant: aw 22:02:02 Vorpal: You know, my PDF reader opens instantly with no fuss :P 22:02:16 elliott, linux? 22:02:18 elliott, or OS X? 22:02:18 I even disabled the prompt for PDF downloads. 22:02:28 Vorpal: Linux. Evince. 22:02:30 It's awesome. 22:02:32 maybe it could happen briefly in a big crunch or big rip scenario 22:02:42 The "remembers your place in a document and zoom settings" is actually really nice :P 22:02:44 For long reads. 22:02:56 elliott, okay get back to me when I can get 1 TB SSD for not more than 1.5 the price of such a HDD 22:03:04 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:03:05 elliott, :P 22:03:26 elliott, I need volume more than I need instantness 22:03:32 What has that got to do with anything... 22:03:51 elliott, I use evince. It does not open instantly when MC just been running and filling the RAM :P 22:10:52 Vorpal: you could use *multiple disks*... 22:11:49 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:12:58 What? 22:16:01 http://gnome3.org/ 22:16:04 What a bunch of crap. 22:16:17 Don't worry, the Alacrity Project will save GNOME 2... 22:19:09 Vorpal: So what are you switching to when GNOME 3 comes out: GNOME 3 "Shit Edition", Ubuntu Unity "We Just Think It Looks Cool, That's All" or Alacrity??!?!?! 22:19:45 "MCEdit Alpha 78.1 for Python2.7 on Linux (one-time build, no updates)" What the fuck does that mean, it's Python, all you have to do is copy some .pycs, dickwad... 22:21:28 elliott, likely xfce if gnome 3 is bad 22:21:31 "The GNOME 2 desktop had a long life, and parts of it became difficult to maintain over that period. As a result, continued releases of the entire GNOME 2 desktop was never a practical option for the GNOME Project, and several parts of the old GNOME 2 desktop will not receive new releases after GNOME 3 is released. The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by Linux dis 22:21:31 tributions for years to come." 22:21:35 Yep, Alacrity is inevitable. 22:21:37 elliott, when is gnome 3 about to come out? 22:22:11 elliott, Alacrity? 22:22:14 Vorpal: 2011. 22:22:22 elliott, ouch 22:22:46 Vorpal: Alacrity is the it's-a-word-and-nobody's-used-it-so-I'll-take-it name for the maintenance work I'm going to do on several pertinent components of GNOME 2. 22:23:00 elliott, wait. gnome3 looks like a bad ripoff on KDE 4 22:23:06 Vorpal: Specifically, I'll maintain gnome-panel and possibly others if they get thrown out. 22:23:30 The idea is that you use the GNOME 3 applications (which are not anything other than continuations of the GNOME 2 versions), but keep the GNOME 2 desktop around them. 22:24:00 elliott, unless xfce decides to go batshit insane too (in which case I'm truly lost) it is a decent alternative 22:24:18 elliott, good idea. If you decide to do this 22:24:19 Thankfully, gnome-panel should not take much maintaining, as it's a stable codebase. 22:24:26 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 22:24:32 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (*.net *.split). 22:24:37 -!- hiato has quit (*.net *.split). 22:24:39 -!- mycroftiv has quit (*.net *.split). 22:24:56 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to ta_mere. 22:25:06 -!- ta_mere has changed nick to sebbu. 22:26:10 -!- elliott has joined. 22:26:21 Vorpal: I didn't see your last messages thanks to netsplit... 22:26:30 But yeah, I will do it, since I don't like Xfce for various niggly reasons :P 22:26:32 elliott, unless xfce decides to go batshit insane too (in which case I'm truly lost) it is a decent alternative 22:26:32 elliott, good idea. If you decide to do this 22:26:32 Thankfully, gnome-panel should not take much maintaining, as it's a stable codebase. 22:26:34 + elliott has quit (*.net *.split) 22:26:41 22:28:59 elliott, wait. gnome3 looks like a bad ripoff on KDE 4 22:26:44 I didn't even see that. 22:26:45 But yeah. 22:27:00 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 22:27:00 -!- hiato has joined. 22:27:00 -!- mycroftiv has joined. 22:27:37 The new GNOME? 22:27:38 Sgeo: What? 22:27:39 22:28:59 elliott, wait. gnome3 looks like a bad ripoff on KDE 4 22:27:39 Vorpal: I hope they don't drop Nautilus too, as that would be a big maintenance task... 22:27:40 elliott, oh I saw a lot you sent since then 22:27:40 elliott, what a weird netsplit 22:27:40 elliott, perhaps the routes are async? 22:27:55 Vorpal: Possibly... 22:28:03 That happened last netsplit too I think. 22:28:42 fucking mcedit linux build doesn't work on python 2.6 ubuntu 22:28:51 no 2.7 pygame in repos 22:28:51 ugh 22:29:05 elliott, mcedit is closed source iirc? 22:29:12 elliott, and include the *.pyc files 22:29:15 or such 22:29:20 Vorpal: Yeah. 22:29:21 elliott, so you need to run it with the same version 22:29:24 Yes. 22:29:29 elliott, and last I checked it was 2.6-only? 22:29:30 But that's impossible on Ubuntu without manually compiling pygame for 2.7. 22:29:34 No, 2.7-only. 22:29:39 elliott, then it changed recently 22:30:03 Vorpal: I get the feeling he doesn't give a shit about Linux: "MCEdit Alpha 78.1 for Python2.7 on Linux (one-time build, no updates)" 22:30:14 elliott, ouch 22:30:16 Oh, wait. 22:30:21 Nope, wait, yes. 22:30:27 I'll use an older version... unless this is the one for beta. 22:30:33 In fact, you know what. 22:30:37 I'm going to use the win32 version. 22:30:39 elliott, it used to be updated regularly for linux 22:30:47 elliott, mcedit sucks anyway 22:30:54 elliott, it is slow and hard to use 22:30:54 Vorpal: Got anything better for tiling the landscape with TNT? 22:31:21 elliott, hmod/bukkit + worldedit 22:31:40 Vorpal: Don't have the resources for that, and besides Bukkit isn't out. 22:31:46 And hMod doesn't work with the current MC version. 22:32:05 elliott, well worldedit is easy to use :P 22:32:48 But impossible to use, as above. 22:32:51 elliott, like: type //wand, get wooden axe, left click with it to select a corner, right click to select other corner 22:33:01 then you just use //expand if you need it to go up/down 22:33:05 Yes, yes, yes. How does it show corners, anyway? 22:33:09 Turning them into glass? :P 22:33:22 elliott, well it doesn't show them, never found it an issue 22:33:30 I mean you see where you aim when you click 22:33:48 elliott, and it is easy to figure out what expanding say 4 down would do 22:34:09 elliott, and you might want to use //overlay tnt 22:34:21 will would cover the top blocks below any air in the selection with TNT 22:34:25 Yes, but *I can't because hMod doesn't work with the current MC*. 22:34:39 just do something like //expand 20 u to make sure to go above hills (or more) 22:35:35 elliott, of you could stand in a cavern and type //fillr tnt 200 to recursively replace all airblocks connected to the block you are standing in (from you feet height and below only) for 200 steps 22:35:35 Vorpal: Besides, exploding massive amounts of TNT explodes servers. The client seems to be much better at it (especially with optimine, which HEAVILY optimises TNT). 22:35:56 sebbu2 is now known as ta_mere <-- classy :D 22:36:09 oerjan, "ta"? 22:36:14 oerjan, shouldn't it be "le"? 22:36:20 or is this not French? 22:36:31 wait, is it le mere or la mere? 22:36:41 elliott, they should make worldedit for single player as a mod 22:36:43 that would rock 22:36:55 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:37:34 elliott, worldedit can also fix snow. You type //snow 20 and it snows in a radius of 20 from you. Handling water -> ice and such too 22:37:56 elliott, oh and //thaw and //drain and such exists too of course 22:37:57 Vorpal: Unfortunately duplicating such work is not appealing to mod authors, as it's essentially coding the same shit over and over thanks to Notch's bad design. 22:38:01 and //fixwater or //fixlava 22:38:09 elliott, couldn't code be reused? 22:38:16 Sure... but it's still a pain. 22:38:21 elliott, hm probably 22:39:29 Vorpal: "ta" means "your" 22:39:41 oerjan, and mere is sea isn't it? 22:39:53 I doubt in this context :P 22:39:56 oh wait 22:39:57 `translatefromto fr en mere 22:39:58 that is mer 22:40:11 *sigh* MCEdit doesn't work in WINE _or_ Mono. 22:40:16 `help 22:40:18 mother 22:40:18 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to \$PWD are persistent, and \$PWD/bin is in \$PATH. \$PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 22:40:24 elliott, mono? it is python! 22:40:33 Vorpal: Worth a try... 22:40:43 elliott, you make no sense :P 22:40:51 wine: Unimplemented function msvcr90.dll._get_output_format called at address 0x7b8352a2 (thread 0009), starting debugger... 22:41:01 elliott, winetricks 22:41:09 elliott, get the native dll in question using it 22:41:12 elliott, worth a try 22:41:47 Have I mentioned: Fuck closed-source software. 22:41:57 elliott, write you own! 22:42:01 editor I mean 22:42:03 8-D 22:42:04 No thank you :P 22:42:10 elliott, heck a layer by layer 2D view would be useful 22:42:12 Maybe mcmap will get an editor! It already does display! 22:42:15 Vorpal: I was thinking that, yeah. 22:42:18 Dwarf Fortress-style :P 22:42:23 also lol @ this should be in -minecraft 22:42:24 elliott, doesn't ones exist already 22:42:40 elliott, no... it should be here 22:42:51 elliott, why should it be in esoteric *minus* minecraft 22:42:55 elliott, you make no sense! 22:44:17 "Impressive apps that work really, really well, and that anyone can try for free, are a great tool for demonstrating Wine to skeptical audiences. (And potentially good for automated regression testing.)" 22:44:19 Now that's just dishonest. 22:44:39 "To make sure you don't realise that Wine can't run 90% of games until you switch to Linux, here's a misleadingly good demonstration." 22:45:08 elliott, it runs portal just fine btw 22:45:30 Reminds me that I need to buy http://store.steampowered.com/sub/2546/ sometime. 22:46:27 elliott, what really. Also where is the price? 22:46:36 Vorpal: At the bottom. 22:46:44 Vorpal: Individual price: £130. 22:46:46 elliott, what, not more? 22:46:48 Vorpal: Package price: £50. 22:46:48 than that 22:46:54 £80 savings ain't bad! 22:46:59 elliott, indeed 22:47:06 Considering that new games are like £35 :P 22:47:09 Each 22:47:14 elliott, wrong: 22:47:15 (in stores) 22:47:30 Vorpal: ? 22:47:41 elliott, oh wait 22:47:48 elliott, it shows it in Euro here 22:47:54 elliott, that explains why the numbers didn't match 22:48:25 elliott, anyway portal isn't stem is it? 22:48:30 elliott, I mean it predates stem iirc 22:48:34 ...Stem? 22:48:44 elliott, steam* 22:48:50 Steam came out in 2003, dude :P 22:48:52 Portal came out in 2007. 22:49:05 The Orange Box was released both via retail and also Steam. 22:49:14 OK, Steam sucks, but that price is pretty good. 22:49:28 elliott, well my copy of portal is standalone as far as I can tell 22:55:34 Vorpal: If it's on the PC, it isn't. 22:56:05 Erm. Well, you may have purchsed just Portal, but Steam is part of the package. 23:04:51 -!- amca has joined. 23:06:27 Heh... Reportedly some beta versionw of Windows XP had no way to turn off IPv6 (sadly, the final versions do). 23:27:59 The Nimrod guy is just ignoring any thoughts on concurrency 23:28:10 "I can't think of any real problem they solve, they just pretend their are no problems :P" 23:28:18 "and if I don't need shared state, I will use OS processes :P" 23:28:26 Sgeo: Who is "the Nimrod guy". 23:29:31 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 23:30:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:38:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:38:48 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:39:30 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:39:39 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:40:08 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 23:40:56 -!- pumpkin has joined. 23:41:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:43:42 Erm. Well, you may have purchsed just Portal, but Steam is part of the package. <-- now we shouldn't use world like "purchsed". I got it from a friend who didn't like the game. it is just wine on the .exe. Works. 23:44:08 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:45:21 indeed we shouldn't use world like "purchsed", ever. 23:46:33 -!- fizzie has joined. 23:47:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:48:38 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:48:52 Vorpal: Ah, so you obtained a de-Steamed version. 23:49:02 Vorpal: Which probably doesn't have the latest update... 23:49:12 Vorpal: Granted, it's only a minor Portal 2 tie-in, but hey. 23:50:00 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:50:17 "Today's IANA depletion date estimate: 2011-01-19" 23:50:20 What's holding up APNIC? 23:50:21 pikhq, it could be 23:50:35 They're at 1.78 /8s now. 23:50:37 pikhq, anyway, I didn't really like the game 23:50:47 ... What. 23:51:04 pikhq, sure it was innovative. But I don't like the first-person format 23:51:08 TOO MUCH VIOLENCE 23:51:16 pikhq, and also well it gets a bit boring in the long run. 23:51:32 pikhq, need to vary more especially the mid testing levels 23:51:34 It's maybe 10 hours! 23:51:38 -!- aloril_ has joined. 23:51:43 pikhq, yes, Long run. 23:51:44 No, wait, that's too long. 23:51:56 monkey island 1 is supposedly 30 hours :D 23:51:59 lol: can't connect to google.com 23:52:03 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:52:04 "and IMHO the problems with locks are vastly exaggerated" 23:52:05 * Vorpal kicks ISP 23:52:23 actually 23:52:25 I'll kick modem 23:52:27 On the other hand, many people actually spend like 80 hours just to finish Final Fantasy games... 23:52:37 So I do have to account for people sucking ass. 23:52:45 I'm likely to time out during the night. Can't hard-reset it. Since someone is sleeping in that room. 23:53:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:53:14 pikhq, didn't take 10 hours. Most of Portal is straight forward 23:53:34 pikhq, that is another issue. It needs to be harder to figure out what to do to be fun. 23:53:39 Sgeo: Locks aren't actually all that bad at all. :p 23:53:46 ...? 23:53:49 I mean, there was a handful of places where it was hard 23:53:50 that was all 23:53:51 Lock-free data structures are very, very tricky. 23:53:56 Vorpal: I suspect you'd like the sequel, then. 23:53:56 \ 23:54:01 And I don't think there's one known for every data structure. 23:54:07 pikhq, doubt it would run on my computer 23:54:12 Sgeo: Why the "...?" 23:54:17 Which is basically making Portal into a fully fleshed out game, instead of basically a short, experimental pack-in. 23:54:37 And I don't think there's one known for every data structure. <-- isn't it known that you can do lock free in general but overhead might be huge? 23:54:42 Vorpal: It's still a Source engine game. 23:54:48 I was thinking of lock-based concurrency as evil 23:54:49 pikhq, hm 23:54:51 Vorpal: Probably, but that doesn't mean that concrete examples are known. 23:54:52 A 10 year old computer will run it fine. 23:55:03 Sgeo: Yes, that is because you are prone to misconceptions based primarily on what seems cool and hip in programming. 23:55:10 elliott, actually many concrete examples are known with DCAS (see synthesis!) 23:55:16 Sure, it'd be nice if all the world was lock-free. 23:55:19 But it ain't. 23:55:19 elliott, but plain old CAS sucks 23:55:24 Vorpal: Yeah, well, x86 doesn't have DCAS :P 23:55:38 elliott, yes it sucks. So does most other platforms 23:55:41 Vorpal: But you could do it at the high-level language level couldn't you? 23:55:46 Albeit very, very slowly. 23:55:47 elliott: What you really want is software transactional memory, anyways. 23:55:53 :) 23:55:56 elliott, well that would be with locks then 23:55:57 pikhq: I'm not convinced STM is the right thing. 23:56:06 I haven't seen it put into wide-scale practice yet. 23:56:09 Vorpal: Right. 23:56:17 elliott: If it's not The Right Thing, it is certainly closer than anything else I know of. 23:56:29 elliott, what you really want is wait free structures! 23:56:32 pikhq: It may be the Right Thing, but does it /work/? 23:56:35 OK, where can I stick a 54 meg file. 23:57:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 23:57:08 elliott: Hard to say without people writing significant code in it. 23:57:29 Which is definitely something going for the actor model: it definitely works. 23:57:32 Heh... Now there are rumors using "inside information" (well, it isn't hard to see even without inside information) that allocations happen this week... 23:57:43 [[No results found for "colostomy bag of a programmer".]] Google, you are not indexing my reddit comments well enough. 23:57:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:58:00 (what with telecom companies running stuff on Erlang) 23:58:15 Ilari: That's pretty funny. 23:58:50 Ilari: You don't need inside information to see that if APNIC *doesn't* allocate soon they'll actually run out of addresses before depletion. :P 23:58:55 Vorpal: pikhq: Will you settle for access via scp? 23:59:05 elliott, that. Will take forever 23:59:09 elliott: You know you want Bittorrent. 23:59:19 elliott, bittorrent would be good 23:59:19 Vorpal: Okay, fine. I'll serve it ... via NETCAT. 23:59:21 elliott, magnet! 23:59:23 Vorpal: NETCAT 23:59:28 OK, fine, BitTorrent. 23:59:30 elliott, MAGNET ONLY TORRENT! 23:59:33 But only if both of you download it to speed things up. 23:59:34 elliott, YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO! 23:59:39 Vorpal: OKAY FIN 23:59:40 E 23:59:44 elliott, well sure I'll download it 23:59:54 elliott, can't answer for the stability of my connection atm