00:01:14 -!- cheater- has joined. 00:02:32 if (t > (data->pause_char+data->pause_word)/2 && t <= 2*data->pause_word) { 00:02:35 log_debug("[libsilly/morse] Based on the timing, appending a space to %d.", ch); 00:02:44 It's a bit silly. 00:02:58 fizzie: Aww, I was hoping you just wrote it when you needed to copy a file one day. 00:03:59 14:22:35 i used it in Malbolge Unshackled to create an infinite lazy datastructure containing IORefs. afaik that usage is perfectly safe. 00:04:03 hmm, I wonder how 00:04:29 !haskell mdo iorefs <- (:) (unsafeInterleaveIO newIORef) iorefs 00:04:32 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:37 wait 00:04:42 mdo? 00:04:45 meh, never mind 00:04:49 Sgeo: yes. 00:04:57 recursive do 00:05:32 But... do doesn't DO anything! 00:07:01 elliott, recursive? 00:07:20 oh 00:07:21 GHC used to support the flag -XRecursiveDo, which enabled the keyword mdo, precisely as described in A recursive do for Haskell, but this is now deprecated. Instead of mdo { Q; e }, write do { rec Q; e }. 00:08:02 Q being? 00:08:08 anything. 00:11:54 What is recursive about it? 00:13:18 {-# LANGUAGE DoRec #-} 00:13:18 justOnes = do { rec { xs <- Just (1:xs) } 00:13:18 ; return (map negate xs) } 00:13:27 "As you can guess justOnes will evaluate to Just [-1,-1,-1,...." 00:13:44 see http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.12.3/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html#recursive-do-notation 00:14:27 I don't need all the features of other systems. Only commands should be have is: send, receive, list, logs. And then have files in the directory such as ".vcsconfig" and ".vcsstate" to tell such things as which files should be listed, text/binary, server to connect to, which is your current version if you want to upgrade, and so on. 00:14:33 Is there any such things? 00:15:35 zzo38: No. So you get to write your own!! 00:15:37 O happy day. 00:16:50 I can write my own but I would still need a remote server for running this system. 00:18:03 my server is far too loaded, with irc logbots 00:19:10 It should also be acceptable to have multiple servers in case someone else wants copies of it too. 00:21:00 I suppose there is also the way to make it without server, in case you want to copy the packets by disks or by IRC or whatever. 00:21:20 yo 00:23:51 Greeble: the best word ever? 00:25:18 greebdogifiericificjiojewofijaejgdfklm 00:25:19 yes 00:32:29 Maybe I should email Stony Brook 00:32:54 Sgeo: Email..st..for what purpose 00:33:18 http://codu.org/tmp/silly.ogg <-- have something extremely silly I just wrote 00:33:24 To try to figure out if I could get accepted into grad school or not, try to figure out what's going on 00:33:58 Via email. 00:34:00 Gregor, I like it 00:34:14 I'm not sure me and quintopia have accurately conveyed just how worthless Sgeo's degree is going to be. 00:34:15 pikhq too. 00:34:19 Shall we have another bash at it? 00:34:31 Sgeo: No. No you could not. 00:34:45 Sgeo: Transfer, you dumbass! 00:34:48 There, that's enough work for me. 00:34:52 quintopia: we're awaiting your statement. 00:35:03 I want something to show my dad 00:35:12 A response from them would probably be sufficient 00:35:24 Sgeo: YOU CAN TRANSFER WITHOUT ASKING YOUR FATHER FIRST 00:35:36 Sgeo: You may have trouble even transferring. 00:35:46 Sgeo: As most of your classes have been *useless*. 00:36:03 pikhq, my English classes haven't been, possibly 00:36:13 Those will transfer just fine, I bet. 00:36:23 But you're looking at literally having *the entire CS curriculum* to do. 00:36:39 pikhq: Better than starting from square 1, still. 00:36:41 I think that's what my dad is getting at. I'd have trouble getting homework done in non-computer courses at a more difficult college 00:36:45 elliott: True. 00:36:47 -!- Mannerisky has left (?). 00:36:55 Sgeo: So transfer and keep your non-CS courses. 00:37:04 Sgeo: I doubt it. 00:37:25 I still have more non-CS courses to do maybe. I'm not sure 00:37:32 *I* can get my homework done. And I'm a guy who actually spent a couple years not doing homework in high school until the very last minute. 00:37:40 "The very last minute" was literally "finals week". 00:37:43 "You don't need a type system to avoid SQL injection, you just need to stop being terrible at programming." 00:37:57 Sgeo: Getting homework done is easier when you're not at a shitty school with tedious work... 00:39:54 Sgeo: You'd have a more useful degree if you went to a 2-year college and got an associates. 00:40:27 Can I find a code to compute the message hash? I should use a fast one but secure. 00:40:32 All this hatin' on Sgeo is getting in the way of people praising my beautiful work X-P 00:40:50 Gregor: How dare you. 00:40:57 Gregor, move it out of tmp and someplace more permanent 00:41:08 Sgeo: tmp is actually pretty permanent X-D 00:41:21 We're not hatin' on Sgeo, we're hatin' on Sgeo's college. 00:41:28 We're trying to help him to not be stuck in shitland with shit degree. 00:41:46 What's your course called again Sgeo? 00:41:51 Computer and Information Systems? 00:41:56 Computer Programming and Information Systems 00:42:16 Gregor: Sgeo thinks he might be able to get into grad school at Stony Brook with a degree in Computer Programming and Information Systems from Farmingdale State College. 00:42:28 I refuse to comment on this matter. 00:42:35 Me and pikhq are _trying_ to beat logic into the man. 00:42:37 so? good luck to him 00:42:38 elliott, right now, I just want to contact someone to confirm whether I can or not. 00:42:48 Gregor: The CIS program in question has data structures as a senior-level course. 00:42:48 j-invariant: With that degree, his chances are pretty much nil. 00:43:04 Gregor: And yes, that class *is* the equivalent of what you probably did your freshman year. 00:43:09 j-invariant: We're trying to spare him going to college again at a respectable university which would involve starting from scratch. 00:43:18 probably 2nd year here 00:43:30 elliott, I'll be starting from scratch no matter what, right? 00:43:34 Sgeo: No. 00:43:44 Sgeo: You'll almost certainly be able to keep your non-computer courses. 00:43:56 And possibly even some of the computer ones, but pikhq will know more than I. 00:43:59 apparently it's really hard to get into uni these days 00:44:01 You freaky Americans. 00:44:12 since aparently everyone is applying ??? due the recession ?? 00:44:18 this makes zero sense to me, but that's what newspaper says 00:44:29 elliott: He will probably be able to get one transferred as the intro to CS class. 00:44:41 Sgeo: So: No, you won't be starting from scratch. 00:44:54 -!- augur has joined. 00:45:02 If you transfer now, you'll almost certainly be able to skip 90% of the non-computer shit, plus a bit of the CS. 00:45:07 j-invariant: "Knoll's Law of Media Accuracy: Everything you read in the newspapers is absolutely true except for that rare story of which you happen to have firsthand knowledge." 00:45:15 elliott: He will need math, though. 00:45:26 pikhq: Better than starting from scratch. 00:45:28 elliott: His CIS program requires almost none. 00:45:29 True. 00:45:32 I'm taking a statistics course now. 00:45:32 hey doesn't augur go to stony brook 00:45:34 Does that help? 00:45:37 or at least did 00:45:40 Sgeo: "maybe" 00:45:43 did 00:45:49 im at university of maryland now 00:45:50 Sgeo: But point is, you'll have a lot less work to do than starting from scratch :P 00:45:50 why 00:45:53 Sgeo: If it's not shitty it'll probably transfer, and will probably be a degree requirement. 00:46:11 augur: could Sgeo get into grad school for CS with a degree titled "Computer Programming and Information Systems" from SUNY Farmingdale 00:46:30 Gregor: The CIS program in question has data structures as a senior-level course. elliott: He will need math, though. elliott: His CIS program requires almost none. 00:46:36 no idea, but i cant imagine why he couldnt 00:46:39 just gettin' an opinion here :P 00:46:40 Sgeo: you went to farmingdale? 00:46:46 augur, going to 00:46:51 augur: his course is /really/ shitty 00:46:51 Present tense 00:47:04 i didnt know you're on long island! 00:47:06 i'ma let pikhq come up with words to describe how shitty it is 00:47:09 because i lack the vocabulary 00:47:10 we couldve hung out! 00:47:12 quintopia can join in too 00:47:18 It requires more *business classes* than math! 00:47:28 IT REQUIRES BUSINESS CLASSES, FOR GOD'S SAKE 00:47:37 but it's about INFORMATION SYSTEMS 00:48:51 Oh, sorry, that data structures course *isn't even required*. 00:48:54 IT'S OPTIONAL. 00:49:10 augur: TALK SOME SENSE INTO SGEO 00:49:17 sgeo: go to sbu 00:49:28 Ah yes, Sbu University. 00:49:37 augur, I want something to present to my dad more than "#esoteric says so" 00:49:43 Thus, an email 00:49:47 Sgeo@Sbu.edu 00:49:55 You could take "Programming in Visual Basic" to meet your basic programming requirement! 00:50:02 not sbu university 00:50:03 :| 00:50:07 yes Sbu University 00:50:11 the most respectable university! 00:50:15 are we making fun of Sgeo's institution again? 00:50:17 pikhq, the Data Structures course is in C++, so that makes no sense, but yes 00:50:18 elliott: Then put your PIN number into the ATM machine. 00:50:20 sbu - stony brook university 00:50:20 :| 00:50:22 no 00:50:25 Sbu University 00:50:26 I BET YOU SAY PIN NUMBER TOO 00:50:27 DONT YOU 00:50:31 yes 00:50:37 nothing wrong with RAS syndrome 00:50:42 it's a silly complaint 00:50:45 RASS syndrome 00:50:46 you should know that, mr. descriptivist :P 00:50:47 it is 00:50:56 RSS syndrome 00:51:00 ass syndrome 00:51:04 <3 00:51:10 ATOM syndrome 00:51:20 muon syndrome! 00:51:43 Sgeo: Why are you so hung up on what your dad thinks? 00:51:51 Sgeo: It's pretty clear that he has no fucking clue. 00:51:55 bcuz his dad is god incarnate! 00:52:59 Sgeo: If you don't transfer to a more respectable university you will be qualified to ask, "Would you like fries with that?". 00:53:12 nothing wrong with RAS syndrome ← other than being pointless. 00:53:20 pikhq: that requires a degree in advanced McDonalds! 00:53:29 Phantom_Hoover: no 00:53:38 "PIN number" is easier to read in a lot of cases 00:53:44 you don't read "PIN" as "Personal Identification Number" 00:53:46 you read it as "PIN" 00:53:56 "PIN number" is clearer 00:54:36 Now we have moved inescapably into the subjective, so there's no point arguing further. 00:54:52 hmm, the ClearBF authors have edited the page, but not looked at either its talk page or their account's talk page 00:54:58 augur: you argue with him, you have the CREDENTIALS 00:55:11 http://codu.org/tmp/silly.ogg <-- Hey guys, still have something extremely silly I just wrote X-P 00:55:21 Gregor: GAVE UP AFTER 15S DUDE 00:55:23 Gregor: Needs more cowbell. 00:55:24 *15s 00:55:26 YES 00:55:28 Add cowbell 00:55:41 elliott: im not going to argue with someone over the pointedness of something like RAQ 00:55:44 .. RAS 00:55:47 elliott: Actually, the cowbell comes in at 18s. 00:55:48 augur: YOU MUST 00:55:54 Gregor: INSUFFICIENTLY SOON 00:55:56 ALSO PROBABLY NOT ENOUGH OF IT 00:56:12 Gregor, that's not a cowbell, you fool! 00:56:20 Phantom_Hoover: I'm just trolltrolling :P 00:56:34 First you invent a trombute and completely fail at playing it, and now this! 00:56:43 GO BACK TO PIANO, PIANO BOY 00:56:44 Phantom_Hoover: lots of language is pointless on the surface, and its not subjective since we can do studies. does this pertain to RAS? who knows. its not a significant enough thing about language to worry about. 00:56:54 My favourite instrument is the xylotheremin. 00:56:57 Phantom_Hoover: Hey, this is awesome :P 00:57:02 elliott: happy? 00:57:03 You just sort of hold your hands above the relevant keys. 00:57:07 augur: no, you have to kill him now 00:57:12 * augur kills Phantom_Hoover 00:57:17 no, IRL 00:57:27 * augur kills Phantom_Hoover irl 00:57:32 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE I LIVE 00:57:34 kill him! and his irls! 00:57:38 Phantom_Hoover: Yes we do, Adhamhnan. 00:57:42 * Phantom_Hoover kills elliott IRL. 00:57:43 Or however the fuck you spell your retarded name. 00:57:46 augur: The issue of "which is preferable", however, is inherently subjective when both options are equally understandable and natural-seeming. 00:57:51 Gregor: Perhaps you should switch to a zeusaphone. 00:57:52 Phantom_Hoover: you don't know where i live either 00:58:01 * Sgeo sends the email 00:58:06 elliott, I know you live in Hexham and I know your surname. 00:58:15 Phantom_Hoover: Good luck with that :P 00:58:26 pikhq: indeed, and hence why i said its not significant 00:58:35 ass syndrome lol 00:58:41 That said, I still think RAS syndrome is silly. 00:58:49 No, it isn't :P 00:58:50 How many people can there be in Hexham 00:58:54 Phantom_Hoover: Lots 00:59:01 My thoughts on the matter don't change anything at all, of course, but it's still silly. 00:59:02 I looked it up once and there weren't any famous people at all. 00:59:16 And obviously the work of the Department of Redundancy Department. 00:59:28 pikhq: You have no idea how much redundancy the typical English sentence contains, dude :P 00:59:42 language is incredibly redundant 00:59:45 pikhq: You no idea how redundancy typical English sentence contains. 00:59:50 Population 11,000? 00:59:51 for the same reasons that communications protocols have redundancy 00:59:55 Phantom_Hoover: his surname is Hird 01:00:00 coppro, I know that! 01:00:06 GNUHird 01:00:08 elliott: Well, I do know that most all human-relevant data has very low entropy. 01:00:10 elliott, 11,000 is *pathetic*. 01:00:20 pikhq: have 01:00:22 Phantom_Hoover: It's enough that finding me will be non-trivial :P 01:00:26 pikhq: we operate over very noisy channels 01:00:38 I could find you easily with a phone directory. 01:00:41 yeah, called #esoteric 01:00:42 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, it's the sort of number you could kill before breakfast. 01:00:43 Phantom_Hoover: we're not listed 01:00:47 Phantom_Hoover: so GOOD LUCK 01:01:08 elliott, OK I WILL GO TO THE LOONY BIN AND ASK THERE 01:03:14 elliott, ALSO THERE MUST BE LIKE 2 SECONDARY SCHOOLS THERE 01:03:25 Phantom_Hoover: Try one 01:03:27 Well. 01:03:29 One high school. 01:03:32 One middle school too afaik :P 01:03:46 elliott, wait, you guys have middle schools as well? 01:04:01 Yeeeeess... there are two systems and we have the three-tier one. 01:04:03 what tahe fuck is a middle school 01:04:07 Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, I'm sure there's only like two people in Scotland with YOUR name :P 01:04:20 j-invariant: 8-12 year olds 01:04:22 GOOD LUCK FINDING THEM 01:04:23 in the three-tier system 01:04:37 I wonder what I should do 01:04:40 Phantom_Hoover: Well, one of them is you. 01:04:42 j-invariant: implement my language! 01:04:47 (I'm already implementing it) 01:04:54 hmm there was some problem with it, wonder what it was :D 01:04:54 nah you'll do it better 01:05:00 but my language is cool 01:06:40 elliott, how's Amethyst coming? 01:06:52 Sgeo: GOOD 01:07:01 Sgeo: have i mentioned that it has sandboxing 01:07:12 Now you have. This makes me feel happy. 01:07:31 Sgeo, you should return the favour and get a transfer. 01:08:14 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 01:08:23 Sgeo: In fact, EVERYTHING is sandboxed! 01:08:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:13:34 * Sgeo goes to watch more DS9 01:19:25 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:19:46 -!- nooga has joined. 01:26:20 Is there a way to make git work with a list file? 01:26:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:28:42 What is a SSH randomart image? 01:29:54 zzo38: well I think gpg generates them but I am not sure why 01:30:35 I am using the program "ssh-keygen" though. 01:33:51 zzo38: I think it's some thing that shows your public key or something. 01:34:00 They're not relevant. 01:34:21 zzo38: BTW, git was created by Linus Torvalds to manage the Linux kernel. 01:35:55 Does git allow specifying whether a file is text or binary file? 01:36:26 zzo38: It automatically recognises binary files, but yes, you can: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/gitattributes.html 01:36:44 zzo38: For instance "*.foo -crlf" would make all .foo files binary. 01:36:59 zzo38: Oh, sorry. 01:37:01 zzo38: -text. 01:37:08 -crlf is deprecated, -text is equivalent. 01:37:15 You can also tell it that the file is text by saying text. 01:37:19 Currently I have no binary files to upload to the repository, I want to make all files as text. 01:37:33 zzo38: It behaves like that by default, I bleieve. 01:37:34 *believ. 01:37:35 *believe. 01:37:43 zzo38: But to be sure, you could do: 01:37:44 * text 01:37:52 Ah, wait. 01:37:52 If you want to interoperate with a source code management system that enforces end-of-line normalization, or you simply want all text files in your repository to be normalized, you should instead set the text attribute to "auto" for all files. 01:37:52 * text=auto 01:38:01 zzo38: So just create a .gitattributes file with the contents: 01:38:02 * text=auto 01:38:24 Hmm. Google doesn't help when finding Elliott. 01:38:26 Alas. 01:38:34 pikhq: I...stop talking me :P 01:38:40 I feel VIOLATED. 01:39:01 Especially as there is a second Elliott Hird in Hexham. 01:39:18 wat 01:39:20 really? 01:39:26 wow 01:41:23 I am a bit confused with using git. How can I make a shell script that adds the files according to a list file, and then sends all changed files when I tell them to send? 01:42:08 zzo38: Is there something wrong with this? 01:42:13 $ git commit -a commits all files in the repository 01:42:17 $ git add foo adds a new file to the repository 01:42:22 $ git rm foo removes a file 01:42:32 zzo38: That's equivalent to having a list file, except to add you use "add", and to remove you use "rm". 01:42:40 zzo38: You can use "git status" to see what files are in the repository. 01:42:44 Files that aren't in the repository are shown with ? in front. 01:43:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:45:15 Do I need: git commit; git remote add origin ...; git push --all origin; like it tells me on the webpage? 01:45:29 When I type "git status" it lists all file under "untracked files" with # at the front. 01:45:34 Ah, yes, indeed, sorry. 01:45:39 I do not want to upload all of the files. 01:45:43 zzo38: You only need to do "git remote add origin ..." and "git push --all origin" once. 01:45:47 That will not add all of the files. 01:45:55 So I type "git add" and the filenames? 01:45:59 Yes. 01:46:05 zzo38: From then on, you just need to do "git commit -a" to make a local commit, and "git push" to give your changes to the server. 01:47:28 zzo38: Actually do not do "push --all", just do "git push origin". 01:47:40 After you make your first commit with the files, of course. 01:52:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:53:08 pikhq: haskela min legak 01:55:30 pikhq: lakhaskela toleur? 01:58:19 -!- j-invariant has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:02:50 Can it be told to only add files that are changed, and tell it that files that are not part of the list are removed (but still kept on the local filesystem and in the deleted files area of the server)? 02:03:11 zzo38: It does only add files that are changed, if you do "git commit -a". 02:03:18 zzo38: And yes, it does not commit files that are not on the list. 02:03:22 To remove a file from the list use "git rm filename". 02:05:26 Do I need --cached option when removing files? 02:06:29 zzo38: Definitely not. 02:06:41 "git rm foo" will not touch your current files. 02:06:45 Wait, no. 02:06:47 zzo38: Yes, you do. 02:06:53 Sorry, yes. 02:07:09 zzo38: "git rm --cached foo" removes foo without removing it from your current directory. 02:07:38 zzo38: If you have removed some files from your directory without using "git rm foo", just use "git add -u" and git will delete the files that are no longer there from the list. 02:07:56 Do I do like this? git add -- `cat vcslist` 02:08:12 zzo38: No, you just do "git add somefile" to add somefile to the list. 02:08:16 "git rm somefile" removes somefile from the list. 02:08:20 "git status" shows you the list. 02:12:00 What happens if I use "git add" with a file that has already been added and not modified? 02:12:08 zzo38: Nothing happens. 02:12:31 Does that make it safe to do so? 02:12:36 Yes. 02:12:37 elliott: Börk börk börk. 02:12:40 zzo38: But why would you want to? 02:12:56 In case I keep a separate list file. 02:13:04 zzo38: Why? Git already has a list file. 02:15:32 i was out having a life and risking it and getting drunk and meeting hot girls elliot 02:15:36 t 02:15:41 well, Sgeo is more important 02:15:54 but now i am fully willing to support you in your assessment of sgeo's degree as worthless 02:16:04 appreciated but SADLY BELATED. 02:16:40 well i'm so sorry 02:16:54 relay my feelings of disgust to him next time he comes around 02:19:44 ok. 02:20:55 Erlang won't get out of my head1 02:20:56 ! 02:21:44 Sgeo: amethyst has concurrency 02:22:16 Amethyst has to be compilable to machine code, and also capable of running on BEAM, and on Android 02:22:17 >.> 02:22:24 Sgeo: Why BEAM? 02:22:35 Because BEAM's awesome? 02:22:37 =P 02:22:40 Sgeo: Not as awesome as machine code. 02:22:58 Fine 02:23:11 Sgeo: Android, sure, that would be possible. 02:27:36 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:27:47 Hay, it's work now!!! 02:27:57 HOORAY 02:28:21 zzo38: I see your commit. You should do: git config --global user.name zzo38 02:28:24 Right now you are "user" 02:28:33 zzo38: Also you did not add a commit message? 02:28:50 http://repo.or.cz/w/TeXnicard.git/blob/c69b4f72ef872a35db284b772b06a82e47cc0af3:/vcslist You should probably not track vcslist in the repository 02:29:08 There are people who don't do commit messages, besides the other person on my project? 02:29:26 Sgeo: but now i am fully willing to support you in your assessment of sgeo's degree as worthless relay my feelings of disgust to him next time he comes around 02:30:50 "Inside sources" claim that IANA's been asked to do the final allocation, and they just need to finish the press release before doing so. 02:31:13 elliott: Why shouldn't I track vcslist in the repository? 02:31:23 zzo38: Well, it just seems strange to. 02:31:23 Not that that means much... Even if that's BS, final allocation's within the week. 02:31:44 zzo38: You could call it MANIFEST instead of vcslist, that's quite common. 02:32:00 And, I did the git config after that commit I realized, so hopefully next time it will use the username and email registered with repo.or.cz. 02:32:46 And didn't I add a commit message? 02:33:06 I just used "`date`" as the commit message, because it is mandatory. 02:33:29 zzo38: You should describe your changes in the commit message, so that other people can see what you have changed. 02:33:33 Otherwise it is hard to look through the history. 02:33:40 That is the purpose of using a version control system. 02:34:13 I do not always remember what changes I made. I just make some changes and then send them when I want to send it. 02:34:42 zzo38: If you do "git diff", you can see what changes you have made. Also, you can do "git commit" every time you make a significant change, and then do that multiple times before pushing. 02:34:49 You can commit as many changes as you want before pushing. 02:35:26 And it does not seem to treat the files properly, I looked at the files and it says "\r" at the end of each line. 02:35:58 How can I make it remove it when sending, but to add it when receiving the files on a Windows computer? 02:36:04 zzo38: Try this: * text 02:36:06 in .gitattributes 02:36:08 rather than text=auto 02:36:25 Then make another commit. 02:36:26 Where is .gitattributes file? 02:36:34 zzo38: In your directory. 02:36:36 Same place as vcslist. 02:36:39 It is hidden from "ls" by default. 02:36:58 There is no such file, probably I have to create it? 02:37:17 Yes. 02:37:23 Is a single line with "* text" good enough? 02:37:23 And add the line "* text" to it without quotes. 02:37:26 Then commit again. 02:37:26 Yes. 02:37:43 zzo38: You do not need to add the .gitattributes file to the repository, but you can if you want to. 02:38:58 OK, I fixed it now. 02:41:15 Also this time it commit with the correct username and email address, the same ones I used for register with the service. Please do not try to send message to this email address; it will probably bounce due to unreachable server. 02:41:39 zzo38: But will you start making proper commit messages? 02:42:38 elliott: Maybe. 02:42:46 Yey! 02:43:20 Did I configure everything correctly on the repo.or.cz service? 02:43:27 Yes 02:43:57 3 02:43:57 4 % Licensed by GNU GPL v3 or later version. Modified versions of this 02:43:57 5 % program must not be called "TeXnicard" without permission from the 02:44:02 10 % whatever you want, as long as they are not part of this file and it 02:44:04 11 % requires the user to compile it themself. 02:44:06 That is not GPLv3! 02:44:21 You cannot license your program under the GPL version 3 with those restrictions, you must make your own license or use another one. 02:44:38 elliott: I thought there was some option in GPLv3 which permits some restrictions? 02:44:49 zzo38: Yes but that restriction is not allowed 02:45:01 Then how can I rewrite it to make it allowed? 02:45:03 zzo38: Also, anyone can remove the additional restrictions. 02:45:15 Apart from certain ones. 02:45:31 zzo38: You cannot, with the GPL. 02:45:40 zzo38: You should remove your extra text and just license it under the GPLv3. 02:45:48 Is it option 7c? 02:45:59 zzo38: Also, your terms are non-Free, and Debian will not include your program in its operating system because of that. 02:46:09 So you should consider removing the restrictions. 02:46:14 I think I am trying to use option 7c. 02:46:23 I am not intending to make it non-Free. 02:46:36 zzo38: No, that is not true. Misrepresenting the origin would be saying you wrote it. 02:46:41 You cannot prohibit people using the name TeXnicard. 02:46:51 zzo38: But you could say that they have to say "my version of TeXnicard" instead. 02:46:56 Can option 7e do that if I make it the trademark? 02:47:32 zzo38: Yes, but you would have to pay, to make the trademark. Also, Debian would have to rename your program to include it. 02:47:36 I don't care if people say they wrote it I just don't want people to call incompatible versions also "TeXnicard". 02:48:00 zzo38: Well, you have to. But you can make it so that people have to clarify that it is not the real TeXnicard, just their version of it. 02:48:53 elliott: Yes, that is my intention, that they are not allowed to claim it is the real TeXnicard. 02:49:32 zzo38: OK, you should say instead: Modified versions of this program must, if they are called "TeXnicard", clarify in their included documentation that their modifications are not part of the official TeXnicard. 02:49:38 zzo38: But I think that might be non-Free, too. 02:49:54 And isn't there such thing as unregistered trademark? (As long as "TM" instead of "(R)"?) 02:50:16 elliott: Why do you think that might be non-Free? Don't many projects already do that and called Free? 02:50:31 zzo38: No, you cannot use that exception with an unregistered trademark, only a registered one. 02:50:35 And no, no other Free project does it. 02:50:57 Firefox does it, but Firefox is not Free by default, and this is why Debian calls it Iceweasel; GNU also have their own version of Firefox because of this, called IceCat. 02:52:15 zzo38: Also, Debian only renamed Firefox because many people use it, if it is a smaller project, they will probably reject it completely. 02:53:17 elliott: The LaTeX license (LPPL) has roughly that restriction. 02:53:57 Gregor: I do not think so. 02:58:43 -!- macrohauler has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:01:21 What do I type if I want to ensure that modified versions are not misrepresented as the official version of this program? 03:01:43 zzo38: That is already prohibited by the GPL, I think. 03:03:14 elliott: The TeX license only allows the use of the TeX name if it strictly conforms to some test of TeX correctness. 03:03:33 pikhq: Yes, but that is not this restriction. 03:03:42 pikhq: COMMENT ON MY AWESOME SILLY MUSIC 03:03:43 pikhq: See /msg. 03:03:45 LaTeX, though, has a clause stating "You must not distribute the modified file with the filename of the original file."... 03:03:57 pikhq: That is non-Free. 03:04:17 elliott: Ah, sorry, it *used to* have that clause. 03:04:21 I do not care about filename, as long as it is clear that it is not the official version of TeXnicard. 03:04:30 zzo38: Nobody will impersonate TeXnicard. 03:04:34 The license does not allow it. 03:04:52 The current license has the same requirement as the GPL: modified components must not be misrepresented as original. 03:05:08 Yes. 03:05:10 OK. 03:05:12 zzo38: So the GPL already has what you want. 03:05:18 zzo38: BTW, DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT add odd license requirements. 03:05:27 "Or the fire monster will get you!" 03:05:32 The thing is, the GPLv3 allows anyone to remove them. 03:05:36 So you can't really add much. 03:05:40 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:05:49 OK I removed everything else now and it just says "Licensed by GNU GPL v3 or later version." 03:06:15 zzo38: At best, it makes people hate you. At worst, it makes it damned hard for any distro to have your package. 03:07:05 pikhq: And with the GPLv3, almost all additional restrictions can be removed. 03:07:15 pikhq, examples of this happening? 03:07:22 Sgeo: Firefox. 03:07:27 Oo 03:07:29 Now I removed that problem from my program. 03:07:33 *Ooh 03:07:34 Sgeo: It is near impossible to package it right. 03:07:36 zzo38: Thanks. 03:07:42 Sgeo: "Ooh"? 03:07:54 As in, that's an interesting example 03:08:11 I think the only distro not having to make some sort of peculiar arrangement for it is Slackware. 03:08:25 And that's because Slackware doesn't really patch stuff. 03:08:39 pikhq: Even so, Slackware should rename it just so that it is not packaging a non-Free program. 03:08:49 elliott: Slackware has never given a shit. 03:08:54 pikhq: Indeed :P 03:09:08 Once upon a time it included Netscape. 03:09:28 Was redistributing Netscape even /allowed/? 03:09:33 Yes. 03:09:39 Well, once they made it gratis. 03:10:13 Pretty sure Debian had it in nonfree for a (short) while. 03:11:54 pikhq: hmm, was netscape ever not gratis? 03:12:43 I doubt I am ever going to include any binary files in the repository for TeXnicard, since they can be compiled from the other files. Even such things as logos can be created using GF-Magick or something like that. 03:12:56 elliott: Yes. 03:13:02 heh 03:13:11 elliott: It was made gratis because of Internet Explorer being gratis. 03:13:18 heh 03:15:26 Did I add enough Content tags to the repository? 03:15:46 And is there a way to remove the Content tags in case they have been added by mistake? 03:15:47 Probably. Hay, you did not enter a good commit message! 03:16:13 pikhq: /msg 03:16:43 I don't think I need a commit message, I just have a script that automates sending the files to the repository. 03:17:15 zzo38: But that is what the purpose of a version control system is! 03:17:21 You are meant to enter a commit message so that the history can be tracked. 03:17:29 Otherwise there is no point in using a version control system. 03:17:43 But you can still track the history. You can still look at the changes! 03:18:01 zzo38: But you are meant to be able to track the history without looking at the changes. 03:19:00 zzo38 is Epsilion! 03:24:29 How long is the commit message allowed to be? 03:24:52 zzo38: The first line should be less than 60 or at least 80 characters. 55 is probably the best limit. 03:25:01 zzo38: But then you should have a blank line and as many as you want to describe the change. But you can leave those out. 03:25:08 So you can just write one short line if you want. 03:25:15 Like: "Optimise text procedures." 03:26:22 Do I use -F for multiple lines commit message? 03:26:48 zzo38: No. If you just say "git commit -a", it will open an editor for you. You can set what editor it uses by setting the EDITOR environment variable. 03:27:06 zzo38: But it must wait until you close it before the command exits, so EDITOR=notepad will not work because it exits immediately! 03:27:18 You can also use -F if you want (-F - reads from standard input.) 03:27:25 (And if you make a mistake you can use Control+C to cancel it and try again.) 03:33:38 OK I fixed the commit message. 03:34:19 Yey! 04:08:26 So, there I was, calmly harvesting some wood... 04:08:38 When a TREE FREAKING DECIDES TO COEXIST WITH ME, THEREBY KILLING ME. 04:08:50 pikhq: Yup! 04:08:55 pikhq: Try digging out in futute. 04:09:02 pikhq: Or just blame Notch -- was there a sapling below you? 04:09:04 If so, yeah, don't do that. 04:09:13 And now I can't find any of my stuff. 04:09:17 It's just tree intercourse, gone horribly wrong. 04:09:23 pikhq: It's near the tree :P 04:09:37 No. No it's not. 04:09:41 Oh. 04:09:45 No idea then. 04:09:48 Maybe they expired. 04:09:51 pikhq: Protip: chests 04:09:52 >_> 04:09:57 It happens. 04:10:14 Fucking hell. There goes my diamond tools and some redstone. 04:10:37 :( 04:10:44 pikhq: I blame Notch. 04:10:52 pikhq: Also, you have a full diamond toolset? 04:11:04 pikhq: Are you still playing on Peaceful? Because, y'know, man up at this point. 04:11:10 elliott: No, but I had the relevant diamond tool. 04:11:14 Right. 04:11:15 PICKAXE. 04:11:22 pikhq: ARE YOU PLAYING ON PEACEFUL 04:11:54 Yes. If I hadn't been I would have died several times by now. Because the tree spawned at me at the very start of night! 04:12:25 And my spawnpoint is not *that* close to where my stuff is. 04:12:32 pikhq: If you have armour you can survive at night :P 04:12:37 And a sword. 04:12:52 elliott: When you die you start WITHOUT ITEMS 04:13:14 pikhq: Well. Right. But it's semi-easy to run back to your base ... dig an underground tunnel to it with a door to enter maybe? :P 04:13:35 elliott: It's not like dying comes up often for me... 04:13:41 I've been playing on peaceful! 04:13:42 pikhq: It will if you go off Peaceful :) 04:13:44 Which you should. 04:13:51 FUCKING TREE 04:14:06 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:15:38 pikhq: When your biggest enemy is a tree, it's time to turn off Peaceful :P 04:16:14 IT TOOK MY DAIMOND 04:16:16 can you do tree farms? 04:16:22 Yes. 04:16:24 Mathnerd314: ... Yeeessss. 04:16:26 By planting saplings. 04:16:29 I died in mine. 04:17:18 pikhq: go get your diamond back 04:17:23 and then KILL ALL TREES 04:17:24 quintopia: It's not there! 04:17:25 It's lost. 04:17:26 As he said. 04:17:31 pikhq: Blame Notch. 04:17:37 I did, however, kill all trees. 04:17:46 Cause trees to go extinct! 04:18:25 pikhq: YOU elliott: HE CAN MINE IT AGAIN 04:18:37 what 04:18:46 ...what 04:18:52 quintopia: Diamond is rare. Insanely rare. 04:18:59 yes 04:19:01 quintopia: Do you actually play MC :P 04:19:04 search long and hard 04:19:09 Oh wait... 04:19:11 this isn't #esoteric-minecraft 04:19:16 I was wondering why all you fuckwits were in here 04:19:20 or build a giant tnt ball 04:19:21 pikhq: Oi, get to the proper channel! 04:19:24 and blow out a crater 04:19:29 and uncover all the diamond 04:19:36 quintopia: And destroy 70% of it ... 04:19:44 SO 04:19:51 How do I remove a content tags from git repository? 04:20:02 That's not a git thing, that's just a repo.or.cz thing. 04:20:06 I think you email them? 04:20:07 Why? 04:21:10 How do I remove a content tags from repo.or.cz thing? 04:22:01 zzo38: By emailing the administrator, I think. Why? 04:22:14 The service is maintained by the admin team as a public service for the Git community, please contact admin@repo.or.cz with any requests, proposals, issues or patches - the underlying engine is fully open-source and easy to deploy. Or you may be also interested in other Git hosting sites. 04:22:15 zzo38: I 04:22:17 There is a tag "porn" by mistake. You could use the program to make pornographic cards, but it is not the intention to do so. This repository does not contain anything pornographic. 04:22:21 zzo38: So I think you email admin@repo.or.cz. 04:25:11 Is there some kind of prefix to tell it to delete a tag? 04:26:05 zzo38: I do not think so. You have to email admin@repo.or.cz. 04:28:12 I looked at the source-codes for their system and in fact they do not have a command to tell it to delete a tag. 04:28:25 zzo38: OK, that is why you should email admin@repo.or.cz. 04:28:26 But they probably should, in case some tags are added by mistake. 04:28:42 elliott: I don't have email. 04:28:54 zzo38: But you used an email to sign up. 04:29:12 elliott: That is receive-only, and only when my SMTP server is running (which at this time, it isn't). 04:29:24 zzo38: OK, well, you will have to send an email to them in some way to remove the tag. 04:29:48 -!- azaq23 has joined. 04:30:42 No, I don't think they should remove the tag. I think they should add a command for removing the tag. 04:30:51 pikhq: http://gergo.erdi.hu/blog/2010-05-16-compiling_haskell_into_c++_template_metaprograms/ 04:31:04 zzo38: OK, then the tag will stay there. If you had email you could email them to suggest that they add a feature to remove tags. 04:31:17 zzo38: You could even press the "fork" link on the repo.or.cz source, add that command yourself, and ask them to merge it back. 04:31:47 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 04:32:50 OK 04:33:15 But you would have to ask them using email. 04:34:06 I do not have any email! 04:35:22 zzo38: Then you cannot ask them. But you could easily get an email address... 04:35:54 I do not want any email. 04:36:05 Then you cannot ask them and the tag will have to stay. 04:36:25 Do they have any postal mail? 04:36:35 zzo38: ...no. 04:36:36 Or, IRC? 04:36:39 No. 04:36:57 zzo38: Why do you not want email? 04:37:02 What's wrog with the tag? 04:37:41 Sgeo: The tag is mistake, it is not the correct tag. 04:38:07 MetaFun is officially my new favorite language 04:49:31 * Sgeo looks at Erlang's TV 04:50:11 Tk 04:50:35 Sgeo: link 04:50:37 to metafun i mean 04:50:42 augur: i linked 04:50:46 pikhq: http://gergo.erdi.hu/blog/2010-05-16-compiling_haskell_into_c++_template_metaprograms/ 04:50:51 oic 04:50:55 also 04:51:00 whats with c++ templates 04:51:02 i hear they're TC 04:51:10 see my link :P 04:51:18 not sure they're tc, but 04:51:21 recursion limit 04:51:23 but apart from that 04:51:26 quite probable 04:51:37 why are they such 04:51:38 this is insane 04:51:44 augur: accidentally :) 04:51:45 what do they do thats so magical 04:51:51 nothing 04:51:55 :| 04:51:58 now exCUSE me, i'm watching a minecraft video! 04:52:12 haskell's type system is exponential worst case 04:52:25 er? 04:52:28 how do you even get into super-exponential domains 04:52:38 you're being incoherent 04:52:41 templates are related to type systems, right? 04:52:45 or am i mixing things up 04:53:00 not really 04:53:01 well sorta 04:53:04 they're like java generics 04:53:08 thats what i thought 04:53:10 or rather java generics are like them :P 04:53:13 generics are parametric polymorphism 04:53:19 like parametric types in haskell 04:53:24 or so #haskell says 04:53:33 and thats what it seems like to me 04:54:11 so if its almost TC to parse and typecheck C++ because of templates, wtf is going on 04:54:26 *like type classes in haskell 04:54:32 augur: um it's not actually that esoteric... 04:54:41 x3 04:54:43 anyway stfu im watching this video 04:54:47 i love haskell's type system, btw 04:55:14 Who doesn't? 04:55:33 :3 04:56:23 meh 04:56:25 it's not powerful enough :P 04:56:49 fair enough 04:56:58 but its sexier than fuckin C#'s type system 04:57:06 i just love haskell 04:57:12 i think thats it 04:57:26 i wouldnt mind it if it had OO support and the options of a more powerful type system 04:57:29 but i love its syntax 04:57:38 and its semantics 04:57:49 OO is useless 04:57:52 sry 04:57:56 and would destroy haskell 04:57:57 its pretty useless, yeah 04:58:02 so nyah :P 04:58:26 what i like most about OO is the style 04:58:38 functional style beats all! 04:58:44 ok let me rephrase that 04:58:48 no :D 04:58:49 i like postfix notation for certain things 04:58:52 well ok 04:58:55 haskell can do that :-P 04:58:57 im watchin a video 04:58:59 i know :) 04:58:59 VIDYA 04:59:30 alsp, i like the almost (but certainly not quite) reactive style that OO promotes 04:59:37 augur: FRP 04:59:39 i dont think most people think of OO that way 04:59:42 solution to all problems :D 04:59:59 i know 05:00:08 augur: (note: fully generic implementation of FRP that doesn't leak space requires a lazy specialiser which is an open research problem :D) 05:00:15 well, doesn't require, but it's the only way anyone knows how to do that 05:00:26 dunno what a lazy specialiser is 05:00:36 OO is like a beautiful woman, who you want to make love to to prove to your dad that you're not a homosexual, but you just can't get it up, so you take some blue pills (functional paradigm) and ... 05:00:40 i know conal thinks that we should have good multithreading to make it truly shine, tho 05:00:48 Gregor: ...and then your analogy breaks down. 05:00:53 "..." = nonsense metaphor taken too far :P 05:00:55 also, you're still gay 05:01:08 augur: luke palmer is in cohorts with conal and he's the main proponent of specialisation for FRP :P 05:01:15 but VIDEO 05:02:11 i feel that OO should be reconsidered in light of haskell type classes 05:02:17 fag fag fag VIDEO 05:02:21 elliott: im talking to Gregor 05:02:26 Gregor hates you 05:02:28 with all his heart 05:02:29 thats ok 05:02:29 VIDEO 05:02:35 elliott: What video? 05:02:50 Gregor: THAT VIDEO YOU DIDN'T WANT GETTING OU-- stupid Minecraft shit 05:03:05 ...? 05:03:48 I have only one thing to say to you, elliott. 05:03:50 PORNOGRAPHY. 05:03:54 * Gregor goes to jail. 05:03:55 Gregor: he's underage 05:03:58 o ok 05:04:31 I should be nighty eating 05:04:42 Sgeo: what 05:04:47 Eating nighties doesn't sound wise at all. 05:05:06 HE WILL DEVOUR THE BLACKNESS 05:06:07 "Nighty" is another word for "nightgown" 05:06:18 DEVOUR 05:06:19 THE 05:06:19 BLACKNESS 05:06:25 It's a black nightgown? 05:06:31 No, he's just a racist. 05:06:42 A cannibalistic racist. 05:06:49 Like Gregor Richards cannibalistic racist. 05:07:04 augur: Like being underage ever stopped anyone from watching porn. 05:07:18 no but it generally stops people from talking about porn to the underaged 05:07:23 it being a crime and all 05:07:24 :P 05:07:42 Is it really a crime for an underaged person to pretend to be 18 and to watch porn? 05:07:47 I don't see how it is. 05:08:02 No, it's a crime to knowingly give an underaged person porn. 05:08:13 Right. And websites can hardly do better than asking, since, well, this is the interwebs :P 05:08:19 its a crime for someone >=18 to give porn to someone <18 05:08:22 in the us, anyway 05:08:31 augur: yes, but consider a website 05:08:33 or to talk about it 05:08:35 and so forth 05:08:37 Even parent->child, even though in any good family that's a 16th-birthday tradition :P 05:08:41 /talk/ about it, are you sure 05:08:46 ye 05:08:47 s 05:08:50 i cant talk about sex with you 05:08:54 unless its in an educational fashion 05:08:55 i don't believe that :P 05:09:00 It could be breach of contract for someone underage to pretend to be 18 and then watch porn, *if they could agree to contracts*. 05:09:06 augur: Lies and deceit. 05:09:08 At least I don't think freedom of speech has been pooped on THAT much. 05:09:10 its not! 05:09:14 I would be very, very surprised if that were true. 05:09:15 VERY. 05:09:18 And also facepalmy. 05:09:25 if i asked elliott what his cock looked like i'd be breaking the law 05:09:30 its true! 05:09:32 augur: In many states in the US, it would be legal to *actually have sex* with elliott. 05:09:38 Don't tempt him 05:09:39 well yes 05:09:43 its state-dependent 05:09:51 elliott: dont worry, you're not my type ;P 05:09:55 i dont like girls, after all! 05:09:59 * elliott cries 05:10:02 <3 05:10:07 * elliott cries some more 05:10:09 And, anyways, it's too late for me to give a shit about stupid laws. 05:10:22 I've already earned a few thousand years in jail with DMCA violations. 05:10:25 where's oklopol when we need him 05:10:33 srsly though 05:10:36 is that really the case 05:10:40 pretty much 05:10:45 elliott: I don't think it is. 05:10:47 are you sure, i don't believe you 05:10:48 citation plz 05:10:49 yeah 05:10:54 [citation needed] 05:10:58 i dont have citations 05:11:01 its just common knowledge 05:11:02 and stuff 05:11:07 augur: [US Constitution, 1st Amendment] 05:11:08 common knowledge is usually wrong 05:11:09 and its done mostly to justify other things 05:11:14 common knowledge is usually wrong 05:11:16 pikhq: the first amendment doesnt apply to everything 05:11:31 * elliott tried to google "folk physics" -- entered "folk psychics" -- far more awesome 05:11:52 I SEE IN YOUR FUTURE... A BAND! 05:11:57 WITH BANJOS! 05:11:58 augur: Ah, right, it doesn't apply to judges being "it doesn't apply because FUCK YOU". 05:12:03 Even though the text does. 05:12:08 seriously though 05:12:09 seriously though 05:12:09 seriously though 05:12:10 seriously though 05:12:11 seriously though 05:12:13 seriously though 05:12:16 i don't believe augur 05:12:18 so 05:12:18 ok 05:12:26 well im not having sex with you, either way 05:12:32 wait was this just a really obfuscatory way for augur to be able to say if i asked elliott what his cock looked like i'd be breaking the law 05:12:34 so dont you think of trying! 05:12:35 without it technically being illegal 05:12:43 no 05:12:45 this raises the question, is it legal to talk about talking about sex with me 05:12:51 i imagine your cock looks like a cock 05:13:00 http://www.petsintouch.com/nwposter/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/rooster-big1.jpg 05:13:07 ITS SO BIG 05:13:11 It's big1. 05:13:16 and look at that red head... 05:13:17 *a big1. 05:13:18 <3 05:13:26 And ... those feet. 05:13:27 Plus the feathers! And claws! 05:13:34 thats how i like my cocks 05:13:34 Keep fuckin' that chicken. 05:13:35 Gregor: Aww, ninja'd :P 05:13:40 feathered and clawed 05:13:42 I swear that chicken only has one leg 05:13:44 http://www.petsintouch.com/nwposter/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/rooster-big1.jpg 05:13:45 Look at it 05:13:49 One fuckin' leg 05:14:02 Due to the nature of this conversation, I keep reading that domain as penistouch.com 05:14:03 your eyes are broken 05:14:06 there are clearly two legs 05:14:20 Augur and the Penistouch, a novel for young children 05:14:35 as written by Elliott Hird 05:14:53 As fapped to by Augur 05:15:05 i wouldnt fap to something named that 05:15:09 thats a stupid title 05:15:43 I have figured out how much memory is used in total by Plain TeXnicard. It uses 0x12C6 bytes (0x22 objects). 05:16:00 Augur and the Fap 05:16:09 But of course it is not finish yet, so probably later it will be longer and use more memory. 05:16:13 i might read that 05:16:15 zzo38: Bloat! 05:16:24 elliott: be sure to submit it to nifty.org when you're done with it! 05:16:27 augur: Augur and the Fapulatory Wonderganza! 05:16:52 Do you think it is bloated? 05:17:23 Very. 05:17:30 I'm going to start Enhanced TeXnicard to remove the bloat. 05:18:31 Gregor: Would you prefer http://www.penisland.com/? 05:18:50 augur: http://eu.nifty.org/nifty/gay/highschool/my-sleepover/my-sleepover-2 "When I was 13 I gave my first blowjob and had my first gay anal sex. It was with a boy called Elliott." // elliott's secrets revealed by Google's site: feature X-P 05:19:00 I, er, wow X-D 05:19:22 didnt we already guess this? 05:20:13 Gregor: From this we can conclude that my penis was at least 7 inches long as of two years ago. Now I just need to figure out a way to claim that the story proves it has exponential growth. 05:20:24 I AM DETERMINED TO USE THIS TO MY ADVANTAGE 05:20:37 I didn't read past the first paragraph, didn't mean to actually make any positive statements >_> 05:20:52 I mean, 7in at 13 ... that's gotta equate to like 11in by adulthood <_< 05:21:27 man 05:21:42 if only 05:21:54 Gregor: Definite qualifications for going into porn. 05:21:57 I am not going to do _anything_ to dispel this rumour. 05:21:59 At all. 05:22:03 Please propagate it. 05:22:58 -!- acetoline has joined. 05:23:04 can i just point out that elliott has entered that period his life when he actually starts caring about sex? 05:23:15 as opposed to two eyars ago, where he only cared about programming languages 05:23:16 elliott: You can do that if you want to, but I think it is not bloated. I think even primitive TeX uses more than 4K of memory. 05:23:26 augur: Psht, programming languages are clearly superior. 05:23:29 its so cute. we get to see him become a real woman <3 05:23:32 elliott: well yes 05:23:43 `addquote its so cute. we get to see him become a real woman <3 05:23:47 elliott: You'll note that we are *here*, not sleeping with women. 05:23:50 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:23:52 I don't really think I've changed much in two years apart from becoming less stupid :P 05:23:52 \o/ 05:23:57 pikhq: Which is *obviously* because we made that choice! 05:24:00 *more 05:24:01 pikhq: (Or men, as the case may be :P ) 05:24:06 Gregor: No, just women. 05:24:11 We're all either straight men or lesbians here. 05:24:14 Erm... 05:24:18 Right, yes. 05:24:21 So augur is clearly a lesbian. 05:24:36 im a big fat lesbian 05:24:39 totally true 05:24:41 elliott: Nah, those of us interested in men multitask. 05:24:51 X-D 05:24:58 That came out slightly differently than intended. 05:25:11 pikhq: its ok 05:25:11 276) its so cute. we get to see him become a real woman <3 05:25:15 augur: i thought you said you weren't into girls 05:25:23 HackEgo: IT'S OK WE STILL LOVE YOU 05:25:31 elliott: im not! 05:25:35 augur: but you're a lesbian! 05:25:40 except those girls that might as well be boys 05:25:48 At this exact moment, acetoline is thinking "What the hell kind of channel did I just join" 05:25:54 acetoline: Here, we are GAY. 05:25:59 Gregor: They've been in here before :P 05:26:02 who 05:26:04 Although not said anything afaik. 05:26:06 nah I know you guys 05:26:13 CREEPY 05:26:15 acetoline is the fbi agent watching this channel 05:26:24 acetoline: Who are you 05:26:25 usually he just sniffs packets 05:26:36 And cocaine. But mostly packets. 05:26:38 And doesn't notice that we save him effort with the logs. 05:26:41 elliott, wtf you mean none of you remember me? 05:26:56 acetoline: OH NO I remember ... good ol'... acetoline... who are you 05:26:57 acetoline: Did you use a different nickname previously? 05:27:16 acetoline: According to my logs, that's the first line you've ever SAID in here :P 05:27:30 oh, hmmm 05:27:35 Primitive TeX has 322 multiletter control sequences and 1330 strings. The format file generated when "\dump" is given at the "**" prompt for INITEX, is 119694 bytes long. 05:27:45 I have my "Three Worlds Collide" song stuck in my head 05:27:48 I might have changed my nick; the last time I talked in here was several months ago, I really don't remember 05:27:49 $ grep acetoline 10* 05:27:49 $ grep acetoline 09* 05:27:49 $ grep acetoline 08* 05:27:53 Yes, I have a song for Three Worlds Collide 05:28:13 I don't remember my nick then, I mean 05:28:25 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/01/110119-yellowstone-park-supervolcano-eruption-magma-science/ 05:28:28 acetoline: I do not remember either. 05:28:29 yellowstone is going to erupe 05:28:30 D: 05:28:32 I have "omoitè ha okusennmann" stuck in my head. (思いでは億千万 if you want to Google) 05:28:33 we're all doomed 05:28:41 yellowstone is just a big pizza 05:28:43 do you guys remember the regex replacement language? 05:28:49 the one that compiled to DFA? 05:28:51 that was mine. 05:28:54 acetoline: there are fifty of those i think ... well the dfa thing 05:28:55 what is it called 05:29:03 wait 05:29:14 is the yellowstone supervolcano actually /about to erupt/ 05:29:15 I never gave it a name really 05:29:20 i thought we had a few more decades 05:29:21 quintopia: no 05:29:23 but its bulging 05:29:30 Bulging like augur. 05:29:35 HAD TO BE DONE 05:29:36 rawr 05:29:44 It was mode-based, and it was blazing fast 05:29:44 actually im kinda drunk so 05:29:47 i say we start a massive geothermal energy project there 05:29:47 I can link it if you guys want 05:29:52 bulging is difficult 05:29:53 steal heat 05:30:16 what, in augur? 05:30:22 no no 05:30:23 acetoline: sure 05:30:25 heat in yellowstone 05:30:50 no pretty sure quintopia means your bulging 05:30:51 elliott: what do you look like, now that you've begun to become a "man" 05:30:53 quintopia: confirm/deny 05:30:59 augur: like a girl still xD 05:31:03 pics! 05:31:06 no 05:31:06 maybe i'm secretly female 05:31:08 k 05:31:16 well im not asking to see your secret vagina 05:31:22 alise: i plead the 5th 05:31:23 but i don't have one, that's how secret it is 05:31:26 Only the public one. 05:31:31 it's being withheld from my OWN EYES 05:31:40 LE GASP 05:31:44 now i'm paranoid 05:31:53 maybe i'll try chopping things off to see if they're real, brb 05:31:57 last i saw of you, you looked lik a young david deutsch 05:32:04 back 05:32:06 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH 05:32:08 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH 05:32:09 OW OW OW OW OW 05:32:22 cut your fingernail too close to the nail bed, huh 05:32:26 hate it when that happens :( 05:32:43 i'm currently missing an arm and an anus 05:32:49 good time to sleep i feel 05:32:52 <3 05:33:12 augur is into girls only if they lack anuses 05:33:13 and arms 05:33:23 not at all true 05:33:23 good to know 05:33:28 both arms and anuses are important to me 05:33:33 But nothing else. 05:33:51 shake hands -> anal sex, what more do you need 05:33:56 * Sgeo doesn't particularly mind if a girl's eye is near useless 05:34:06 "eye" 05:34:08 not eyes, mind you 05:34:18 elliott: who shakes hands 05:34:20 what is this 05:34:30 well erm 05:34:31 fisting then 05:34:34 GOOD BOY 05:34:45 augur: isn't this discussion illegal 05:34:45 venus demilo is supposed to be quite beautiful 05:34:48 yes 05:34:49 without arms and an anus 05:35:01 Venus Demilo sounds like a pornstar 05:35:10 she is 05:35:11 augur: How does the law work with a cross-jurisdiction conversation, anyways? 05:35:17 an armless anusless headless pornstar 05:35:26 pikhq: i think its determined based on where you are 05:35:26 i'm just a bloody stump of a finger 05:35:30 or where the "victim" is 05:35:33 AND AM GOING NOW FUCK OFF GOODBYE 05:35:35 augur: i feel molested 05:35:40 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: fucking sleeping). 05:35:40 * quintopia sleeps also 05:35:45 whichever jurisdiction wins 05:35:49 Hmm. Clearly we should all head out to the Vatican. 05:35:53 Age of consent is 12. Fuck yeah. 05:35:58 :P 05:36:02 practical age of consent is 6 05:36:21 seriously tho, who the fuck would want to fuck a prepubescent kid? 05:36:38 post-pubescent, fine, but pre? 05:36:38 Pedophiles? 05:36:44 well yes thats not the point tho 05:40:43 NASA has a solar sail in space right now. FUCK YEAH. 05:47:09 "solar sail" 05:47:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:48:53 -!- TLUL has joined. 05:55:01 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:01:57 solar fail amirite 06:27:10 -!- MagiMaster has joined. 06:29:21 -!- MagiMaster has left (?). 06:35:31 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:48:07 -!- TLUL has changed nick to TLUL|afk. 06:48:47 Is the reason why you get error messages saying "The operation completed successfully" because of the command to receive error message text not done immediately after the operation with error? 07:13:39 -!- amca has joined. 07:20:37 -!- TLUL|afk has quit (Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*). 07:23:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: *disappears in a bomb of invisible smoke*). 07:41:19 zzo38, exit(normal). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:46:07 -!- totem has joined. 09:06:49 -!- totem has left (?). 09:50:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:14:47 http://www.2playerproductions.com/images/stories/jeb.png 10:15:08 "How on earth did he confuse = for == and not notice for 3 years?" 10:54:17 i have great news btw 10:54:29 in my dream, i actually saw the solution to the collatz problem! 10:54:40 prolly shouldn't be that hard to reproduce it 10:56:35 the solution was not written in traditional math notation tho, there was this black board that had like a 20x30 grid of holes, and then the girl who solved the prob put red, green and blue pearls in the wholes and drew a racetrack 10:58:08 she didn't quite have time to explain what the interpretation was before the killing started, i don't remember what happened, all i remember is the fear of death 11:08:05 Swedish open source spell checking software generally sucks more or less badly. I wonder why. 11:09:00 For example, firefox's spell checker suggested that "tvåkomplement" (two-complement) should be "tvålkomplement" (soap complement). The latter I have no idea what the fuck it would be. 11:09:14 oklopol, Phantom_Hoover ^ 11:10:48 I mean, either it doesn't handle concatenating words properly, in which case "tvålkomplement" must actually be in the word list(!). Or it does handle concatenation. In which case it should handle "tvåkomplement" just fine. 11:14:21 Don't worry, Finnish free spell checkers suck even more; esp. wordlist-based approaches that can't do the inflections. 11:15:20 fizzie, heh 11:15:50 fizzie, but seriously, "soap complement". That's ridiculous! 11:17:59 fizzie, at least Swedish have rather few suffix variants for a given word. 4 I think. Or actually 8 I guess but the equiv of the 's (as in foo's) in English is pretty much the same always iirc. 11:20:28 Firefox's Finnish spell-checker actually seems to do better than I expected, based on five or so test-words. 11:24:35 fizzie, the one in firefox is vastly better than the one in open office for Swedish 11:32:30 Vorpal: tv isn't a noun so it can't be the first part of a compound? 11:32:47 not really even a question, i'm sure that's the reason 11:32:48 fizzie, know any modern general purpose language with built in support for fixed point values? 11:33:01 oklopol: I would think they can compoundize things like "kaksikäsinen"? 11:33:09 NO 11:33:10 oklopol, uh. tvåkomplement is the Swedish word. 11:33:22 I mean, as far as I know it is valid 11:33:25 Vorpal: the spell-checker isn't a native spearker 11:33:27 *speaker 11:33:42 oklopol, well no, it is a stupid program :P 11:33:56 fizzie, what does that word mean? 11:33:58 Vorpal: so what about two-handed 11:34:22 Vorpal: it means "he who possesses a pair of hands" 11:34:31 tvåarmad, is it? 11:34:39 oklopol, I would say it should be tvåhändig. 11:34:51 fizzie, well that is better, though that means two-armed 11:34:57 i'm not asking what it is, i'm asking if the program understands it 11:35:03 oh. sec 11:35:21 yeah the finnish version can mean either really 11:35:35 although perhaps only the arms one makes sense 11:35:49 i didn't actually even consider it might mean something 11:35:51 oklopol, yes it knows "tvåarmad" at least. 11:36:07 not tvåhändig though 11:36:11 no, surely it said "you must mean" tvlarmad 11:36:16 oh 11:36:16 oklopol, nope 11:36:23 so tvarmad might be an exception 11:36:33 it *did* suggest tvålhändig though :P 11:36:33 tvlhndig must be in everyday use anyway 11:36:37 yeah 11:36:41 then there's no mystery 11:37:03 tv can't be the first part of a compound, tvarmad is in the word list 11:37:07 oklopol, the problem here is that "händig" also means something else 11:37:19 * Vorpal tires tvåhandad 11:37:22 Dictionary here does list "tvåhändig" and "tvåhänt" both; you could try the latter. 11:37:37 Or tvådimensionell, for that matter. 11:37:51 They're different sort of words than komplement, though. 11:38:00 tvåhänt sounds better yes. But it doesn't handle that either. 11:38:17 tvådimensionell it *does* handle 11:38:28 what a weird spell checker 11:38:41 it is like it handle compounds only in some cases 11:38:52 Not all compounds are valid, after all. 11:39:04 Must be something word-class-related. 11:39:15 fizzie, well. I have always preferred a descriptive grammar to a normative one. 11:39:34 And everyone would find words like that just fine. :P 11:39:38 I couldn't (immediately) figure out any unarguably correct Finnish words it didn't handle. I mean, it doesn't recognize "kissaisa" which I unambiguously parse as "catlike", but it does recognize "kissamainen" which is more "regular". 11:40:07 i parse kissaisa as a internetified kissais 11:40:10 *an 11:40:23 fizzie, a native speaker of Swedish just hears if a compound sounds valid or not. To me "tvåhänding" does sound slightly awkward but still valid. 11:40:34 err tvåhändig* 11:41:10 tvåhänding sounds like some creature from a book. 11:41:31 oklopol, "very catlike"? 11:41:37 :D 11:41:47 oh wait 11:41:50 "a -> " does not have any sort of function in finland 11:41:51 you said *internet*ified 11:41:52 *finnish 11:41:55 not *intensified* 11:41:56 oh 11:41:58 how did I misread that 11:42:16 And it doesn't recognize the always-touted "longest word" epäjärjestelmällisyydellistyttymättömyydellänsäkään, but that's just ridiculous anyway. It does do shorter variants, like "epäjärjestelmällisyydelleenkin". 11:42:33 And it does do the also-often-mentioned long-compound kolmivaihekilowattituntimittari. 11:43:08 fizzie, I made a 73 letter word in Swedish. This was many years ago. Word 98 for Mac OS (classical mac os) thought it was valid btw. I doubt open office would 11:43:21 "epäjärjestelmällisyydellistyttymättömyydellänsäkään" makes perfect sense at least, i've heard variants that aren't really finnish at all 11:43:42 though word failed miserably at hyphenating it! 11:44:08 fizzie, is "epäjärjestelmällisyydellistyttymättömyydellänsäkään" a compound word? 11:44:12 compounds are unbounded in finnish, you can just concatenate any nouns as long as you like 11:44:14 and what does it mean 11:44:18 that's not a compound 11:44:40 compounds are unbounded in finnish, you can just concatenate any nouns as long as you like <-- same in Swedish. Though after a while you run out of imagination. 11:44:56 -!- amca has quit (Quit: neit). 11:45:10 järjestelmällinen → organized, systematic. 11:45:18 Then it's just suffixes, and a negation prefix. 11:45:41 Vorpal, clearly a soap-complement would be what you get when you replace everything that isn't soap with soap and replace all the soap with something else. 11:46:04 that means "even with his not having been made become full of unsystematicness" 11:46:07 roughly 11:46:12 I don't really like the whole "järjestelmällisyydellisyys" bit it has in there. 11:46:20 Phantom_Hoover, but soap is not a binary thing. 11:46:44 järjestelmällisyydellisyys iterates a syffix twice, yeah 11:46:46 you can just repeat that 11:47:02 iloisuudellisuudellisuudellisuudellisuudellisuudellisuud 11:47:03 *s 11:47:14 *suffix 11:47:15 fuck 11:47:31 so maybe unsystematicnessness 11:47:44 Yeah, it's a bit like repeating -ness in English. 11:48:11 And kolmivaihekilowattituntimittari means "three-phase kWh-meter", but that's very straight-forward. 11:48:11 well repeating ness is a perfectly valid way to construct arbitrary length words in english 11:48:12 fizzie, you mean like foonessness? 11:48:15 how meta 11:48:24 happinessnessnessnessnessnessnessnessnessness 11:48:33 is the longest english word that's not a compound 11:48:42 but i think i know a longer one 11:49:00 well repeating ness is a perfectly valid way to construct arbitrary length words in english <-- actually I can't work out what it means after the third iteration or so 11:49:26 erm, the state of being the state of being the state of being happy? 11:49:29 fizzie, ah in Swedish that would be "trefas kilowattmätare" I think 11:49:30 are you stupid or something 11:49:55 oklopol, hm I meant actually sensible meaning 11:49:59 Vorpal: Doesn't that just measure kW's, not kWh's? 11:50:03 fizzie, oh right 11:50:13 "trefas kilowatttimmemätare" 11:50:15 then 11:50:31 The triple-t is nice. 11:50:40 fizzie, typo 11:50:44 probably 11:50:59 fizzie, I think one t should be stripped there 11:51:11 fizzie, but I'm not sure. 11:51:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:51:53 well someone could be experiencing happiness in your backyard, so you tell them happiness is not allowed in there, and then he says "but the happinessness of my happiness is so overwhelming i can't control it!" and then you say "the happinessnessness your happiness' happinessness is feeling is an illusion" and shoot the guy 11:52:07 oklopol, I see... 11:53:21 Here in Finland we'd put a dash in, probably. Though usually there's two matching vowels at the inner border of a compound, not consonants. 11:53:41 that wasn't really correct use of -ness :D 11:53:44 fizzie, yeah I would probably rewrite it in some way in Swedish 11:53:48 but let's not get into that 11:53:52 oklopol, yeah I was wondering if happinessness really mean "happiness of happiness" 11:54:30 one thing it could mean is "the fact that someone is the happiness of something" 11:54:41 hmm 11:54:41 oklopol, the way you used it, it seems like you reified happiness 11:55:07 well you pretty much have to for that meaning of -ness, don't you 11:55:17 well 11:55:19 suppose not 11:55:21 oklopol, yeah and I'm wondering if that is actually valid. 11:55:36 but you need to get some tangible grip of the happiness that someone is feeling 11:55:52 so that you can start talking about the happinessness of that particular happiness... 11:56:07 oklopol, quite. So does adding extra -ness make any sense at all then? 11:56:16 someone might argue that there is only one happiness, but then talking about its happinessness surely is even more important. 11:56:22 it makes a lot of sense 11:56:32 it doesn't have any uses ofc 11:56:46 oklopol, :D 11:56:49 i mean in your everyday life 11:57:02 but it would be crazy to say it's not valid 11:57:20 INSANE 11:57:43 PURE MADNESS 11:58:46 oklopol, hm what we need is a formal definition of what -ness means exactly. Because I don't read happinessness as happiness of happiness. But rather as the state of being in the state of being happy. 11:59:26 it's not the happiness of happiness, it's the property defining happiness. 11:59:49 you are feeling happiness if the thing you are feeling has the property of happinessness. 12:00:21 oklopol, hm okay. 12:00:25 just like you are feeling cat if the thing you are feeling has the property of catness! 12:00:30 :D 12:01:04 oklopol, but what about non-emotions where you add -ness? 12:01:22 oklopol, tidiness for example 12:01:31 tidinessness? 12:02:06 well you know, when your room is tiny, it has the property of tidiness, in which case the tidiness characterizing your room shows clear signs of tidinessness. 12:02:12 oklopol, also isn't -ness only for adjective -> noun? That is another reason why it wouldn't work for cat or for multiple ones 12:02:21 oklopol, "tidy" not "tiny" 12:02:45 because if it didn't have the property of tidinessness, it wouldn't be tidiness in the first place, and thus wouldn't have been a property of the room in the first place 12:02:49 *tidy 12:02:55 typo, d and n are so close 12:03:06 oklopol, what keyboard layout? 12:03:06 catness is valid 12:03:40 oklopol, but cat is a noun, and from what I can find -ness can only be used on adjectives. And that turns them into nouns. 12:03:50 but okay, could be you are right 12:04:14 catness first turns cat into an adjective, then before anyone notices, it goes one level higher so that it looks less suspicious 12:04:23 oklopol, :D 12:06:39 oklopol, hm oklopolnessness 12:07:04 or would it be oklonessness 12:07:25 PURE MADNESSNESS 12:09:04 I think for catness a more attitudinous word is "cattitude", for obvious reasons. 12:09:58 fizzie, "attitudinous"? 12:10:38 It's like "fabulous", but with more 'tude. 12:21:13 Wonder what the heck is going on with APNIC... Someone says the depletion date is known (but confidential), someone else says APNIC just hasn't requested (and if they will, it will be processed in normal time...) 12:22:35 It's the end of the world as we know it 12:22:45 It's the end of the world as we know it 12:22:53 It's the end of the world as we know it 12:22:57 and I feel fine 12:23:31 -!- acetoline has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:25:17 Or they send the request on schedule (not on allocation threshold...) 12:27:00 They are way below when they should have allocated... 12:27:14 asparagus 12:28:24 APNIC may well know how long IANA is going to take, so by sending request at suitable moment, one has pretty good idea about the depletion day.... 12:33:57 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:37:09 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:10:25 What's up with all the news articles about IPv4 depletion coming out lately? 13:16:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:18:30 Apparently 60% of AOL's income comes from idiots who haven't realised they're paying for a service they don't use. 13:22:44 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:24:41 -!- cheater- has joined. 13:37:00 Phantom_Hoover, which service is that? 13:37:17 Vorpal, the actual "IS" in "ISP". 13:37:29 Phantom_Hoover, so... what do they use AOL for then? 13:37:35 Email. 13:37:48 Phantom_Hoover, and they use another ISP for actual browsing? 13:37:53 (and so on) 13:37:53 Yep. 13:37:57 Phantom_Hoover, wtf 13:38:19 BTW: Any progress on getting esolangs.org to have an AAAA record? :-) 13:38:35 Based on the stuff I've read it's mainly technologically-illiterate old people, so "idiots" is a bit harsh. 13:38:41 Ilari, I doubt the server has IPv6. 13:38:55 Ilari, as in, it doesn't have any inet6 ip apart from ::1 and a link-local one 13:42:26 Yeah, if the server doesn't have AAAA record, it probably doesn't have IPv6 address anyway... 13:49:54 Gregor, I have concluded that the clicking mechanism you used in the pen projectiles is unworkable for pen rockets. 13:56:35 -!- oklofok has joined. 13:59:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:59:57 I get this sense that my attention span is plummeting. 14:00:43 that usually happens as you get younger. 14:00:50 completely normal 14:06:31 -!- cheater00 has joined. 14:06:43 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:30:35 oklofok, oh, right, I'm just going through time backwards. 14:31:51 is all i'm saying 14:31:51 For a second there I was worried something was seriously wrong. 14:59:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:02:35 .emit sdrawkcab gnivom m'I syas kofolko 15:02:48 !najreo 15:03:56 ni* 15:04:46 * oerjan swats Phantom_Hoover in all four dimensions simultaneously -----### 15:04:51 .oN 15:05:10 hm didn't help 15:05:19 * Phantom_Hoover swatpans oerjan in the 5th dimension. 15:05:26 .ha 15:08:10 suo!suaw!p ay+ u! punoje h11njaje> sujn+ uefjao * 15:08:28 some loss of information may be expected 15:14:31 00:11:29 14:22:35 i used it in Malbolge Unshackled to create an infinite lazy datastructure containing IORefs. afaik that usage is perfectly safe. 15:14:34 00:11:33 hmm, I wonder how 15:15:30 dammit wiki's down 15:16:28 * oerjan visits his own homepage directly, notices Unshackled isn't mentioned there 15:17:02 http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/Unshackled.hs 15:18:14 suo!suaw!p ay+ u! punoje h11njaje> sujn+ uefjao * <-- really? that's interesting! 15:18:35 oerjan, do you have a proof of that though? 15:19:01 well you may notice that i am no longer going backwards in time 15:19:06 Q.E.D. 15:19:28 !haskell mdo iorefs <- (:) (unsafeInterleaveIO newIORef) iorefs 15:19:41 oerjan, oh. I blame it on the loss of information then. It ended up as "The Riemann hypothesis is true" 15:20:41 oerjan, unless it has been shown that you not going backwards in time implies that it is true. 15:21:57 elliott: i think you'd want something like iorefs val = let iorefs' = liftM2 (:) (newIORef val) (unsafeInterleaveIO iorefs') in iorefs' 15:23:21 i've got nothing on the RH, although i could direct you to a crank commenting on godel's letter who does 15:24:08 :P 15:24:28 elliott: oh you're just trying to make a cyclic mutable list 15:25:06 oerjan, btw I'm downloading system upgrades. Just after I read your line about the crank I checked back at the terminal window and saw that it was downloading cracklib, which I first read as cranklib XD 15:25:34 (in case you don't know, cracklib is the thing used to say "no, you can't use that as password, it is too weak) 15:25:44 in which case, mdo iorefs <- (: iorefs) `fmap` newIORef whatever should work, i don't think you even need unsafeInterleaveIO for that 15:25:54 s/)$/")/ 15:26:18 Vorpal: SPOOOOKY SYCHRONICITY 15:26:31 (not really) 15:26:38 not really no 15:26:55 although it _could_ be 15:27:41 oerjan, don't you need more than two events for that to happen. Like if I would check into #nethack and someone would say "kraken" and then I would misread that or whatever. 15:27:46 elliott: um it needs a ; return iorefs at the end too 15:27:51 (not that that happened atm) 15:28:13 Vorpal: no, two events is enough 15:28:16 *are 15:28:27 of course more help 15:28:32 a friend of mine wrote a game in javascript 15:28:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvKZPvJ5dBY 15:28:35 :D 15:28:51 using his own 3d engine 15:30:10 nooga, was the 3D engine written in js too? 15:30:18 of course 15:30:23 it runs in chrome 15:30:46 http://redshootinghood.info/ 15:30:46 nooga, meh doesn't count unless you write a JITing js implementation in js to host it :P 15:32:12 :t do rec {x <- return (True:x)}; return x 15:32:13 forall (m :: * -> *). (MonadFix m) => m [Bool] 15:35:55 bl 15:37:44 -!- FireyFly has joined. 15:38:34 * oerjan swats FireyFly -----### 15:45:53 oerjan, why 15:46:05 oh just because of his nick? 15:46:49 -!- Adiemus has joined. 15:48:50 why? well because of the why of course. 15:50:40 -!- Adiemus|2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:51:07 MVSCA SWAPPENDA EST 15:51:50 although them darn flies seem to be getting tougher 15:55:01 MVSCA SWAPPENDA EST <-- hm. Is it a transposition crypo? 15:55:04 crypto* 15:55:14 no it's mock latin 15:55:17 Sounds LATIN 15:55:27 oerjan, oh. What is it supposed to mean 15:55:30 well only the SWAPP- part is fake 15:55:53 The fly should be swapped 15:55:58 oerjan, wait, does latin have v or something as a vowel or how do you pronounce "MVSCA"? 15:56:21 in classical latin, U and V were still one letter. same with I and J. 15:56:32 and W didn't exist of course 15:57:41 wait what 15:57:45 *SWATTENDA 15:57:49 d'oh 16:02:48 wow 16:02:52 i mean just wowe 16:03:04 you even translated it correctly...still not what you meant 16:03:14 also, if MVSCA is fly, what is mouse? 16:03:21 MVSCVLVS? 16:03:59 just MVS, i suspect 16:04:14 quintopia, what does a fly have to do with a mouse? 16:04:40 Vorpal: the latin words look slightly similar 16:04:47 oh okay 16:05:07 "The best known mouse species is the common house mouse (Mus musculus)." 16:05:16 aha 16:05:41 the musculus part being an adjective only used in the scientific nomenclature, not in actual day-to-day latin 16:06:53 ah, but the modern term "muscle" comes from that adjective form, so i expect that they did use it in conversation to mean "mouse-like" 16:07:15 or "mousey" 16:07:31 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mus#Latin 16:07:45 also en:mouse = sv:mus 16:08:08 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/musculus, see etymology 16:08:40 oerjan, I haven't checked yet but I expect something like "because the mouse back then were body builders" 16:09:14 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%E1%BF%A6%CF%82#Ancient_Greek it looks like the greek had some trouble giving this word just one meaning :D 16:09:45 Vorpal: the muscle meaning is borrowed from the greek, where the word has four different unrelated meanings 16:10:08 three of which sound similar in english, btw 16:10:36 the reason i heard was that when one flexed the bicep, it looked like a little mouse currying around underneath the skin 16:10:37 (well the last one is from the same greek/latin, so may not count) 16:11:06 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:11:17 quintopia: plausible, but with it being from ancient greek it's not exactly easy to confirm... 16:11:23 right 16:11:41 the greek were big on fake etymologies iirc, they thought hero and eros were related... 16:12:17 (hero=heros in greek, so just one letter difference, and one that greek doesn't actually write to boot) 16:12:34 *didn't actually write 16:13:52 quintopia: i think the singular is still biceps, btw 16:14:11 if you want to be all latinate about it, yes 16:14:23 but bicep is common usage in english 16:14:57 ...it is? 16:15:28 what would you know. although it's listed as nonstandard. 16:16:09 but so common that i've never heard biceps used as a singular noun in my life 16:18:28 well maybe you only hang out with stupids 16:18:33 have you thought about that 16:19:53 quintopia, isn't it "bicepses" or something in plural? 16:20:14 not in latin 16:20:19 oerjan, I meant in English 16:20:29 oerjan, in Swedish it is same in singular and plural at least 16:20:34 oklofok: i would not be surprised if the entirety of the american population that can be commonly found on the weight room floor fell into that category 16:20:36 -!- Adiemus has quit (Quit: The Spirit and the bride say, Come! Let everyone who hears this say, Come! Let everyone who is thirsty come! Let anyone who wants the water of life take it as a gift! [Revelation 22:17]). 16:21:26 ...someone probably didn't fit in this channel 16:21:38 do you live on the weight room floor, quin? 16:22:32 oklofok: far from it. it's just that people don't talk about biceps much in other places 16:22:34 yeah esolangs can be too much for some 16:23:32 quintopia: oh right, i didn't actually realize that the word meant... even though i did look up the finnish term to check " oerjan, in Swedish it is same in singular and plural at least" 16:23:38 *what 16:24:28 i thought you met all your friends in the weight room, which sounded interesting 16:25:56 i should try that sometime 16:26:06 go to the gym just to make friends 16:26:10 see what kind of people i can find 16:26:13 :P 16:36:43 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:11:11 so 17:11:17 alamaailman vasarat 17:11:20 they are really good 17:12:51 Based on the name they must be a Finnish thing. 17:13:14 -!- elliott has joined. 17:13:15 well yes 17:13:41 well no 17:13:52 XML was a great choice for SVG. I usually write my SVGs by hand in a text editor, so it was nice to have a format that's human-readable. 17:13:53 Though, it shouldn't be too much of a problem in most cases. 17:13:53 Gregor: like YAML or JSON 17:13:53 yorick, sadly, does not know The Way. 17:13:53 human-readable, maybe; human-editable, not even close. 17:13:54 you call reading a single line of xml "human readable"? 17:13:57 Trolling ##javascript for fun and profit. 17:14:42 niiiice 17:16:40 11:02:07 i have great news btw 17:16:40 11:02:19 in my dream, i actually saw the solution to the collatz problem! 17:16:40 11:02:30 prolly shouldn't be that hard to reproduce it 17:16:41 11:04:25 the solution was not written in traditional math notation tho, there was this black board that had like a 20x30 grid of holes, and then the girl who solved the prob put red, green and blue pearls in the wholes and drew a racetrack 17:16:45 11:05:58 she didn't quite have time to explain what the interpretation was before the killing started, i don't remember what happened, all i remember is the fear of death 17:16:48 I want to `addquote all of this. 17:17:13 10:22:56 "How on earth did he confuse = for == and not notice for 3 years?" 17:17:23 Phantom_Hoover: wtf, minecraft is fairly close to being 3 years old... 17:17:25 that's fucking scary 17:17:27 wait no 17:17:27 two 17:18:11 i'm pretty sure i played the alpha that long ago. sounds right. 17:19:02 it ran fast, but it didn't have much in the way of crafting or user interface...it was just pick up blocks here and put them there... 17:20:33 quintopia: you don't mean alpha 17:20:34 you mean classic 17:20:40 anyway it was mid/late 2009 17:20:56 classic? is that what they call it now? 17:21:20 quintopia: It was never called alpha :P 17:21:37 it played like an alpha 17:22:32 quintopia: not as much as Alpha did 17:22:42 and Alpha wasn't as alpha as the first Beta :D 17:22:48 lol 17:23:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:23:32 -!- nddrylliog has joined. 17:23:54 hi everyone. bored. any cool esoteric language to implement? I'm kinda lost in esolang's language list. 17:24:14 nddrylliog: Underload is pretty easy and fun to implement 17:24:55 sounds fair. Let's do it 17:24:58 implement banana scheme please 17:25:37 haha I wish :) 17:25:55 15:25:00 http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/Unshackled.hs 17:25:57 oerjan: dear god 17:26:11 Of course, Underload have already been implemented many times. You can make another implementation if you want to, but other way is to make implementation of one which is not currently implemented. 17:26:16 quintopia: And then I'll write a Brainhype interpreter in Scheme-omega, right? 17:26:27 nddrylliog: if you have time, sure 17:26:39 nddrylliog: If you implement Scheme-1 then you can run my error-compliant Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php implementation: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php 17:26:52 (Some are not implementable though) 17:27:42 zzo38: yeah, that the problem. Most reasonable/not-a-clone-of-brainfuck languages seem to have been implemented already 17:28:10 nddrylliog: You could implement Magenta. 17:28:25 Note that Magenta is not only hideously complicated, but it has a curse on it, and implementing it is therefore incredibly unwise :P 17:28:34 nddrylliog: There are many others (see the Unimplemented category, many of those are implementable but have not been implemented yet) 17:28:37 elliott: seems like the spec's offline 17:28:41 http://www.reocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Station/2266/tarpit/magenta.html 17:29:02 I have a backup copy of the Magenta spec too. 17:29:03 oh, right 17:29:46 nddrylliog: Example Magenta function: 17:29:46 function feedthebear (enum[bear] whichone, enum[food] bearfood) 17:29:47 begin 17:29:47 bool fed;//if all goes well... 17:29:47 whichone[call] (); 17:29:47 try{ 17:29:48 whichone[eat] (bearfood); 17:29:50 throw (whichone[eat](armp));//armp is a global indicating 17:29:52 }//zookeeper's arm 17:29:54 17:29:56 return (fed=TRUE); 17:29:58 end; 17:30:13 omg my eyes. 17:30:26 it basically takes the worst in every language ever, right? 17:30:27 Amusingly, I am fairly sure that, despite its incredibly redundancy, they still don't manage to have a loop construct as complicated as Common Lisp's LOOP. 17:30:37 nddrylliog: It takes everything from every language ever. 17:30:48 hahah 17:31:00 task feed_fish(food Fishfood, fish Goldfish) [yp=lastproc+1, \ zp=MINPRIORITY] begin 17:31:00 bowl Fishbowl; 17:31:00 commode toilet; 17:31:00 17:31:00 get(Fishfood); 17:31:02 feed(It, Goldfish);//It=Fishfood here 17:31:03 17:31:07 toilet=Fishbowl:empty(); 17:31:09 toilet:flush(); 17:31:11 clean(It);//It=toilet here 17:31:13 17:31:15 end; 17:31:25 why the gratuitious backslash? (before zp=MINPRIORITY) 17:31:47 huh are comments somehow meaningful/interpreted sometimes? 17:32:09 well silly questions, I should just go and read the spec 17:32:23 I'll finish implementing Underload first 17:33:18 nddrylliog: the backslash probably means something :D and no, I don't think so 17:33:35 I wrote an Underload compiler once, which was good fun, but it was slower than a clever interpreter (that optimised integers). 17:34:06 15:29:55 elliott: i think you'd want something like iorefs val = let iorefs' = liftM2 (:) (newIORef val) (unsafeInterleaveIO iorefs') in iorefs' 17:34:08 oerjan: hmm 17:34:18 oerjan: isn't it technically valid for that to evaluate to an infinite list of the /same/ IORef? 17:34:22 i.e., only one 17:34:34 nddrylliog: have you been in here before btw? haven't seen your name before :) 17:35:10 oerjan: I'm trying to get an infinite list of /different/ IORefs 17:35:43 elliott: Nope, never joined esoteric. I'm the author of http://ooc-lang.org/ though. 17:36:04 nddrylliog: Oh, that language I've been ignoring :-) 17:36:08 but now non-esoteric languages sound a bit boring. I needed more nonsense in my life 17:36:14 elliott: That particular one :) 17:36:39 Actually ooc has the distinction of being the one language that Sgeo hasn't managed to decide is the best ever before getting bored of it. 17:36:51 I was going to put "dubious" before "distinction" but I'm not so sure. 17:36:57 haha 17:37:15 But bah, darned kids and your mutability and yer side effects and yer objects. 17:37:25 yeah. I've repented of my sinful ways since. 17:37:38 very well, we won't sacrifice you _immediately_ 17:38:01 awesome. I'm just about done fucking over every relationship - one left to go. How does monday sound? 17:38:17 hmm...Monday's not good 17:38:21 How does Wednesday sound? 17:38:54 aw 17:38:56 i want to watch 17:38:59 if I'm not into ethyl coma by then, sure 17:39:13 well, "into" is probably a poor choice of words. 17:39:33 nddrylliog: What are you going to use to write the implementation? 17:40:09 zzo38: Why ooc, of course. I'm almost done redefining basic constructs on top of basic types. 17:40:26 zzo38: Along the years, ooc has grown in some sort of INTERCAL-2. Or what Java would be if they listened to users. 17:40:33 so many features to abuse, it's really esoteric heaven 17:40:36 nddrylliog: You probably want to just store everything as a string. 17:40:50 Thanks to S. 17:40:55 ^ can be interpreted as "eval" 17:41:32 I have made implementation of Underload written in TeX. 17:41:44 haha, awesome 17:42:36 Some things are easy like ! is just \endgroup 17:43:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:45:40 wonderful, I already have 5 levels of indirection in just a few lines of code. 17:45:59 ur doin it rong 17:47:23 haha, no. that's the goal 17:48:28 I'd extend Func but I'm not sure if rock supports that. 17:49:16 push(popAndThen(|| push(pop()))) // ain't that beautiful? 17:50:36 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:50:38 oh god 17:50:39 :( 17:51:38 in a few years elliott will be pasting this stuff, going all "lol nddrylliog u were so noob lol" 17:51:51 totally 17:52:06 nddrylliog: heh "I'd like to do this, but I dunno if my language can do that!" 17:52:09 that's reassuring :D 17:52:11 and nddrylliog'll be like STFU FAGGOT IMA IGNORE UR ASS 17:52:13 well *compiler 17:52:14 heh, my language could. 17:52:15 my compiler... 17:52:35 I PRESCRIBE SICP 17:52:54 but if you could see the things I'm throwing at it right now - it's a pretty fair fighter, if you ask me. 17:52:58 have you read sicp already, elliott 17:53:03 oh yes, constantly 17:53:14 sicp is a bit like bdsm, right? 17:53:18 somehow i find that hard to believe 17:53:19 except without the fun part 17:53:22 did you do all the exercises? 17:53:32 ALL OF THEM 17:53:39 they are kinda simple 17:53:42 ooh I was gonna use match. but that's too high-level. Let's find another constricted way of doing it. 17:53:56 nddrylliog: sicp is a nice read 17:54:02 you guys think SICP is five times awesomer than CLRS? 17:54:03 maybe extending Char with a function taking a hashmap from strings to funcs. 17:54:05 just for inconsistency 17:54:12 what's clrs short for 17:54:30 abbreviations are useless, there's always some retard who asks what they mean 17:54:30 oklofok: It's that "Introduction to Algorithms" book. 17:54:36 ohh 17:54:52 Cormen Leiserson Rivest and Stern 17:54:54 i just skimmed that once and was all "lul i'm way above this stuff" 17:54:56 By Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest and Stein. 17:55:25 But the R in it is the same R as in RSA. 17:55:26 stein... :/ 17:55:49 -!- rodgort has joined. 17:55:56 The first edition was just CLR; second edition adds the S. 17:56:07 I've used their latex pseudocode thingie somewhere. 17:56:15 oklofok: no one is way above getting pseudocode for implementations of data structures. it's so much easier than trying to remember how to do them yourself 17:57:05 oklofok doesn't use data structures! 17:57:10 Oh, they have a third edition out already. 17:57:17 quintopia: i'm way above programming 17:57:20 :D 17:57:29 oh me too 17:57:48 same here 17:58:08 and i don't really do algorithm stuff either, aside from the occasional remark "which can clearly be done effectively" 17:58:18 ahaha 17:58:35 are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? 17:58:38 "and so it's reduced to a linear programming problem and we are done" 17:58:40 that's been used before. 17:59:04 nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full 17:59:16 oklofok: close enough 18:00:11 `addquote are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full 18:00:33 276) are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full 18:00:38 `quote 18:00:39 179) pigeons are very smart. all the known ways to show a language is not regular are based on pigeons. 18:00:41 *Main> run $ parse "(:aSS):aSS" 18:00:41 "*** Exception: wtf 18:00:46 yet it's still a better impl than nddrylliog's! 18:00:47 `quote 18:00:48 6) His body should be given to science. He's alive :P Even so. 18:00:54 `quote 18:00:55 27) IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! 18:01:06 don't scare the newbie with our insane quotes :D 18:01:45 but they are so much fun to spam on the channel 18:02:12 also, ...says the man trying to kill bots using recursive asses 18:02:20 wait 18:02:22 that was local 18:03:12 one more then i'll stop 18:03:14 `quote 18:03:15 234) For instance, Jesus' Y chromosome was clearly GOD'S. 18:03:34 that doesn't count 18:03:35 `quote 18:03:36 148) alise: mainly it's the fact it blows so hard i cannot avoid hitting the walls of the thing, which completely goes against my basic public toilet hygiene principles 18:03:52 erm 18:03:59 that will definitely do. 18:04:55 :D 18:06:28 scared? pffrt. 18:07:09 nddrylliog: http://sprunge.us/aRgY your move 18:07:38 i suggest optimising church numerals like derlo does :D 18:07:47 haha, not bad :) 18:08:01 $ ./underload 99bob 18:08:01 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer. 18:08:01 Take one down and pass it around, 88 bottles of beer on the wall. 18:08:01 underload: That's not a program. 18:08:02 oh dear 18:08:24 (c == this) ifTrue(yeah) ifTrue(noes) ifTrue(|| /* make up your mind */) 18:08:26 ^ truly gold. 18:09:06 * elliott suspects forces of mild intoxication are at work :D 18:09:16 meh, alcohol are for the weak. 18:09:26 alcohol is plural? 18:09:34 so what do yeah and noes evaluate to, is that your language's innovation, nicer names for booleans 18:09:37 so is my headache. 18:09:45 nope, they're just variables 18:09:46 because that's what i've been waiting for in a language 18:09:47 arguments, in fact 18:09:52 i'm disappointed 18:09:54 well, functions, really 18:09:59 but definitely not objects. 18:10:30 isn't everything an object?!!?!?!?! 18:10:35 * elliott troll 18:10:42 now wtf is this bug 18:11:00 objects are everywhere 18:11:12 everything is an boejct 18:11:20 a boejct indeed 18:12:40 boejct put quajects to shame 18:13:10 i should read the rest of that synthesis paper 18:13:11 SOME DAY 18:13:15 so, so far only one compiler segfault and twice generated invalid C code. Not bad, not bad 18:13:23 Aiming for Balmer peak but missing? :-) 18:13:31 nddrylliog: you are getting me soooo hyped about your language 18:13:34 elliott: what, this quaject/OS/kernel/bizarre thing? 18:13:46 nddrylliog: Synthesis is the quaject OS, yes. 18:13:52 so hyped > Sorry, did it look like I cared? :) 18:13:54 Well, was, I doubt anyone has a machine that will run it any more. 18:14:02 right 18:14:09 nddrylliog: oh i'm not being sarcastic ... your toolchain looks like it's rivalled only by D :-D 18:14:37 OH GOD PLEASE DON'T 18:14:38 sorry. 18:14:48 I have really really bad memories of.. the-language-that-shall-not-be-named. 18:14:58 but Walter's actually a pretty nice guy 18:15:02 a bit shy, though. 18:15:06 we have a few D victims here 18:15:21 I don't think I ever /did/ get LDC compiled 18:15:40 good thing the langauge sucks then :D 18:15:40 I went to chat with him after his talk at the ELC and he was like "hum, right - humans. How do they work again... oh, hi!" 18:16:09 i'm fairly sure everyone in here is like that apart from oklofok 18:16:10 BTW, what is "PACHELBEL"? 18:16:11 oh, I'm using closures more than 4 levels deep - workaround time 18:16:28 That would be a good drinking game, drink for every nested closure. 18:16:30 Ilari: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Pachelbel 18:16:37 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 18:17:16 I asked "what" not "who"... :-) 18:17:40 elliott wanna go drinking some time? i can buy you beer! 18:17:46 elliott: Haha, will try tonight :) 18:17:51 `quote kids 18:17:52 btw where are you guys located? 18:17:54 111) think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat 18:17:58 `backquote 18:17:58 don't remember if i addquoted that 18:17:59 No output. 18:18:04 dhu. 18:18:06 `run ls -l 18:18:08 total 56 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 53 Jan 22 18:27 1 \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jan 22 18:27 babies \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jan 22 18:27 bin \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 3 Jan 22 18:27 foo \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jan 22 18:27 paste \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 11 Jan 22 18:27 quine \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 27598 Jan 22 18:27 18:18:14 `run rm -rf / 18:18:15 No output. 18:18:20 nddrylliog: OH WOW WE DIDN'T THINK OF THAT HURRRR 18:18:20 ah, too bad. 18:18:28 It uses plash in an empty chroot :P 18:18:30 elliott: Actually, bash designers thought of that 18:18:34 *coreutils 18:18:34 elliott: so I wasn't too worried anyway 18:18:38 ah 18:18:38 not bash 18:18:40 huh 18:18:40 right. 18:18:47 but hum 18:18:50 !c printf("RAPID C PROTOTYPING\n"); 18:18:50 zsh folks did then 18:19:01 RAPID C PROTOTYPING 18:19:07 $ /bin/rm -rf / 18:19:07 /bin/rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' 18:19:07 /bin/rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe 18:19:10 pretty sure that's a coreutils feature 18:19:20 ^ that one, yeah 18:19:33 but I think the zsh folks *did* some tampering with rm in an inane attempt to make it safer 18:19:38 like wrapping it or something 18:19:46 bah, this might be the lack of liquor talking 18:20:00 they probably did, zsh does like everything 18:20:32 they probably reimplemented emacs in zsh. 18:20:44 which is, like, the universe in a box. 18:21:03 talking of which, does the new Futurama season suck or does it not? My internet connection wants to know 18:21:23 i've heard only good things about it 18:21:32 but no first-hand experience 18:21:47 btw where are you guys located? 18:21:49 england, fwiw 18:21:56 we have a dangerously high population of finns here though 18:22:38 haha, nice :) 18:23:02 so a nested-closure-drinking-session is an easy-jet flight away. 18:24:17 on an unrelated note, I still haven't made good use of my jonskeetfacts.com domain. 18:24:44 lol@stackoverflow 18:25:12 :) 18:25:53 oerjan: isn't it technically valid for that to evaluate to an infinite list of the /same/ IORef? <-- i cannot imagine why, it's no more shared than it would be for let x = newIORef val in liftM2 (:) x (liftM2 x (return [])) 18:26:06 -!- FireyFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 18:26:22 oerjan: hmm, right 18:26:52 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Silly_Emplosions&curid=2318&diff=20841&oldid=19921 <-- in which my definition of "witty" is found to clash with another's 18:31:23 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:32:29 -!- nddrylliog has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:33:05 -!- cheater00 has joined. 18:33:48 19:01 oklofok> did you do all the exercises? 18:33:48 19:01 elliott> ALL OF THEM 18:34:05 so it's not the kind of book that contains famous unsolved problems? 18:34:11 it's certainly not 18:34:57 the exercises are not problem solving, they are about 1) understanding program structure 2) filling gaps in code the writers were too lazy to include 18:35:05 mostly 2) 18:35:47 at least afair, i didn't actually do any of them, and i read it quite a while ago 18:38:44 alcohol is plural? <-- i don't know it's all arabic to me 18:40:38 `addquote I went to chat with him after his talk at the ELC and he was like "hum, right - humans. How do they work again... oh, hi!" 18:40:41 277) I went to chat with him after his talk at the ELC and he was like "hum, right - humans. How do they work again... oh, hi!" 18:41:21 i wonder if he actually said that out loud 18:42:14 btw where are you guys located? <-- all over europe and north american, plus the occasional korean, south african and kiwi 18:43:22 "Any "if" statement requires at least 14,000 subconditions." 18:43:42 that's actually quite many 18:44:03 JS quine: _=/[,'_='+_+_(_)]+/,'_='+_+_(_) 18:44:17 yeah right 18:45:26 can you parse that for me, my js skills are slightly lesser than that. 18:45:42 it has the structure of a quine 18:46:07 i'm not even sure how it works, that // is a regexp i believe 18:46:22 ha 18:46:28 x = /[,'_='+_+_(_)]+/, '_=' + _ + _(_) 18:46:36 i bet it matches the rest of the string as a regexp 18:46:36 x = /[,'_='+_+_(_)]+/, "_=" + _ + _(_) 18:46:38 hm maybe not 18:46:44 since _ is clearly assigned in ther 18:46:46 *there 18:46:58 oh maybe the regex stringifies in a weird way 18:47:10 does the comma after "/" separate two statements 18:47:13 or expressions or whatever 18:47:19 *north america 18:47:22 erm 18:47:32 i doubt it does. 18:47:43 we have a kiwi here? 18:47:50 oklofok: i think so. 18:47:56 hmmhmm 18:47:57 ok wait 18:47:57 elliott: GreaseMonkey 18:48:07 iirc 18:48:11 oerjan: oh... well let's pretend not, since he's irritating 18:48:14 x = /[,'_='+_+_(_)]+/, "_=" + _ + _(_) 18:48:15 aha 18:48:19 x is actually named _ 18:48:19 :) 18:48:31 regexp = /[,'_='+_+_(_)]+/, "_=" + regexp + regexp(regexp) 18:48:36 ok so I bet regex(foo) matches regex on foo 18:48:39 well right, that was obvious 18:48:42 so regexp(regexp) matches a regex on itself 18:48:44 hmmhmm 18:48:48 so 18:48:54 the [] is just the listing of characters used in the expression 18:48:58 repeated 1+n times 18:49:00 but in a convenient order 18:49:01 uh 18:49:02 hmm 18:49:02 duh 18:49:08 <- norwegian, and strangely the only regular one i think 18:49:09 so i guess the match results in the regexp's stringification itself 18:49:19 but i don't see how that'd be different to just regexp.toString(), which could be written as just +regexp 18:49:29 although i recall someone else not too long ago 18:49:40 some guy oklofok was with 18:49:57 ah yeah 18:50:00 oh wait nddrylliog already left 18:50:01 i don't remember his nick 18:50:05 started with v 18:50:11 Velmont 18:50:18 but his name was something like thor 18:50:22 :D 18:50:49 oklofok: here? 18:50:54 no i mean irl 18:51:07 as elliott said, he was Velmont here 18:51:14 kipple is norwegian of course but he hasn't been seen in ages afaik 18:52:47 actually both the korean and the south african are present, just not saying much :) 18:54:25 and for some reason we have no danish regular that i can recall, there are some obvious holes here >:) 18:54:59 it's because danes are stupid obviously 18:55:00 not really, 3 finns, 2 swedes, 1 norwegian, 0 danish 18:55:06 let's say Herobrine is a dane 18:55:09 just for completeness 18:55:10 oklofok: ah 18:55:14 although technically he should be a swede 18:55:17 but maybe notch is secretly danish 18:55:26 elliott: well it almost looks like it could be danish 18:55:27 (herobrine is notch's dead brother) 18:55:47 ...HeroBrine? 18:55:49 who's that 18:56:00 elliott's log bot 18:56:00 Herobrine: who's you 18:56:04 oh. 18:56:17 elliott: logging channels is unethical 18:56:32 yes, it is 18:56:51 Sex with weetabix is also unethical. 18:56:56 oklofok: but but it's so nicely formatted. well better than tunes.org anyway. although i am having a bit of trouble getting used to proportional irc font. 18:56:57 But you don't see ethics stopping us, do you? 18:57:37 elliott: THE FORMATTING SUCKS AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD 18:58:02 "proportional irc font" and "nicely formatted" don't really fit in the same internet. 18:58:16 Gregor: What's wrong with the formatting. 18:58:17 um 18:58:19 it's not proportional 18:58:21 it's monospaced 18:58:24 -!- j-invariant has joined. 18:58:27 oh maybe my font alias isn't right 18:58:28 oh okay, then can i see 18:58:32 Yeah, it's monospace :P 18:58:35 oerjan: Can you screenshawt :P 18:58:38 Gregor: I think it only is on Linux 18:58:39 I use "mono" 18:58:42 the css is "monospaced" 18:58:44 or monospace 18:58:48 but Mono is a local fontconfig alias I think 18:58:56 Unicode SO needs a TROLL FACE codepoint. 18:59:02 I had it as originally proportional, but changed it because the dates didn't line up :P 18:59:09 elliott: i cannot reach the host at the moment 18:59:16 oerjan: try reconnecting, it's synchronous 18:59:18 and i just loaded a page 18:59:19 there you go 18:59:21 (i wrote my own http server :D) 18:59:23 (it's SHIT) 19:00:55 i've never done a screenshot before :D 19:01:23 oerjan: press printscreen 19:01:28 oerjan: open paint 19:01:29 Ctrl+V 19:01:30 save as png 19:01:32 imgur.com 19:01:47 alt+printscreen if you have donkey porn in the taskbar and just want to screenshot one window 19:03:03 i've tried all kinds of combinations of Fn/shift/ctrl/alt with Prt Scr and none of them seem to have any effect what so ever 19:03:14 oerjan: they just copy to clipboard 19:03:16 oerjan: open paint 19:03:17 Ctrl+V 19:03:19 oh 19:03:20 plz2be following instructions in full 19:04:12 yay it's working 19:06:04 now i cannot reach imgur :( 19:06:05 happy day 19:06:07 oerjan: ompldr.org 19:08:21 elliott: http://imgur.com/mahzT 19:09:04 while true; do nc 208.78.103.223 80; done 19:09:08 lol @ having cellebration on your desktop :D 19:09:17 Gregor: Don't :P 19:09:36 oerjan: hmm i'm trying to decide between making the alignment work with proportional or making it monospaced for everyone :D 19:09:42 it's rarely opened these days 19:09:52 oerjan: I basically need to rewrite the formatter, since it's an awful, awful hack 19:09:58 thankfully the logs themselves are raw IRC 19:10:03 so I can pretty much format them as I want 19:11:13 other than that, my desktop is rather clean, the only icon that's hidden is the image i just uploaded 19:11:46 And the donkey porn. 19:11:59 i don't have icons for porn 19:12:11 * oerjan whistles ambiguously 19:12:12 Oh, right, it's donkey RESEARCH. 19:12:23 oerjan: You're 40, you can't do that, it's creepy. :p 19:12:29 heh 19:12:29 Donkey porn is BIBLICALLY APPROVED 19:12:45 Gregor: as long as the donkey is FEMALE, mind you 19:12:45 YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE TO ALLUDE CRYPTICALLY TO THINGS AND THAT CHANCE IS GONE 19:12:49 or is that just islam 19:12:51 oerjan: Vice-versa 19:13:01 oerjan: The donkey has to be male, the human has to be female. 19:13:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:13:13 O KAY 19:13:30 you are the half-jew, you should know this stuff 19:13:42 Half-jew = islamd 19:13:43 *islam 19:13:43 so what, if i love both donkeys AND god, i have to get a sex change operation 19:14:18 yes 19:14:21 Yes 19:14:22 but that's disallowed too 19:14:25 so basically go to hell 19:14:31 :( 19:14:32 Do not pass Go 19:14:42 hey i just played that game a couple days ago 19:14:45 oerjan: i didn't realise anyone actually used my logs except for me, my ego is soooo boosted :D 19:15:43 Unicode SO needs a TROLL FACE codepoint. <-- dammit there's going to be Unicode exhaustion eventually isn't there 19:15:50 :D 19:15:53 X-D 19:16:04 just make a codepoint an ipv6 address 19:16:15 that runs a server that gives back the unicode info for it 19:16:22 then, it's even distributed! anyone can make their own character! 19:16:56 that's actually not a bad idea 19:17:02 .... 19:17:03 what 19:17:06 you should write that down 19:17:07 I've heard worse. 19:17:16 Herobrine WROTE IT DOWN FOR ME 19:17:18 'sa terrible idea 19:17:23 *best idea 19:17:31 just because it's not the worst, doesn't mean it's actually good 19:17:59 but i wanna make my own character! 19:18:29 it would be a perfect circle 19:18:33 o 19:18:33 o 19:18:34 o 19:18:34 o 19:18:34 o 19:18:35 o 19:18:35 o 19:18:36 o 19:18:36 o 19:18:37 o 19:18:38 o 19:18:38 o 19:18:38 o 19:18:38 o 19:18:40 o 19:18:43 o 19:18:44 o 19:18:46 that spams itself a few times when you type it 19:18:47 oo 19:18:48 o 19:18:51 o 19:18:53 o 19:18:55 ooo 19:18:57 o 19:18:59 o 19:19:03 oo 19:19:05 o 19:19:07 o 19:19:09 o 19:19:11 o 19:19:13 o 19:19:15 o 19:19:17 ]o 19:19:19 o 19:19:19 oerjan: i didn't realise anyone actually used my logs except for me, my ego is soooo boosted :D <-- it's nice to not have to scroll horizontally 19:19:21 o 19:19:23 o 19:19:25 o 19:19:27 o 19:19:29 sorry i mistaked 19:19:38 oerjan: also it has a saner timezone :P 19:19:45 i thought 19:19:47 o 19:19:48 ]o 19:19:48 o 19:19:50 looked nice 19:19:54 yeah it does kinda 19:19:55 o 19:19:55 ]o 19:19:56 o 19:19:57 o 19:19:58 ]o 19:19:59 ]]o 19:19:59 ]o 19:20:03 exactly 19:20:03 o 19:20:05 could catch on 19:20:07 o 19:20:09 ]o 19:20:10 ]]o 19:20:12 ]]]o 19:20:15 ]]]]o 19:20:17 ]]]]]o 19:20:19 ]]]]o 19:20:21 ]]]o 19:20:23 ]]o 19:20:25 ]o 19:20:27 o 19:20:27 could certainly 19:20:37 i would make a character that was the current unix timestamp 19:20:52 oklofok: also mirrored perhaps 19:20:53 o 19:20:54 o[ 19:20:55 o[[ 19:20:56 o[ 19:20:57 o 19:20:57 nah 19:20:59 quintopia: lol first you say you hate the idea and then you're all like OMG LET'S DO THIS I WANNA DO SOME TIMESTAMP STUFF 19:21:05 elliott: yeah no 19:21:11 o 19:21:12 [o 19:21:12 o 19:21:14 erm 19:21:16 *]o 19:21:18 o 19:21:19 that looks gay. 19:21:19 }o{ 19:21:21 }}o{{ 19:21:24 }}}o{{{ 19:21:24 just because i would not support it actually happening doesn't mean i wouldn't mess with it if it already existed 19:21:27 }}}}o{{{{ 19:21:28 }}}o{{{ 19:21:30 }}o{{ 19:21:30 }o{ 19:21:31 o 19:21:31 quintopia: fair enough 19:21:33 it's not that it isn't a cool idea in theory 19:21:36 just not practical 19:21:54 well everything in the universe should have their own ip 19:21:58 elliott: that too, although i eventually learned that tunes.org starts at 9am for me 19:22:00 unicode characters are no exception 19:22:00 sort of like having a character that looks different every time you requested it is a weird thing 19:22:04 Just needs smart caching + big lists of constants. 19:23:23 i would make a character that was the current unix timestamp <-- so basically you want to move unicode to ipv6 in such a way that you can get ipv6 exhausted as well? 19:23:39 lol 19:23:39 not bad 19:26:08 hm if humanity discovers FTL travel and communication then ipv6 would likely no longer be sufficient would it 19:26:21 > 2^128 19:26:22 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 19:27:22 (assuming we also keep breeding like rabbits) 19:27:42 > 2^8192 19:27:43 109074813561941592946298424473378286244826416199623269243183278618972133184... 19:27:53 > 2^2^2^2^" 19:27:53 : 19:27:54 lexical error in string/character literal at end o... 19:27:54 I'd just use a one-kilobyte identifier for everything if that happened 19:27:56 8192 bits 19:27:58 > 2^2^2^2^2 19:27:59 200352993040684646497907235156025575044782547556975141926501697371089405955... 19:28:05 !haskell 2^8192 19:28:13 !haskell print $ 2^8192 19:28:53 elliott: both of those should work if EgoBot doesn't timeout 19:28:57 !help 19:28:58 1090748135619415929462984244733782862448264161996232692431832786189721331849119295216264234525201987223957291796157025273109870820177184063610979765077554799078906298842192989538609825228048205159696851613591638196771886542609324560121290553901886301017900252535799917200010079600026535836800905297805880952350501630195475653911005312364560014847426035293551245843928918752768696279344088055617515694349945406677825140814900616105920256438504578013326493565836047242 19:29:05 is that the whole thing, i wonder 19:29:13 lawl 19:29:22 and of course there's that bug that it sometimes prints long lines only at the next command 19:29:32 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:29:44 I think that bug was only the previous EgoBot ...? 19:29:46 !echo hi 19:29:48 hi 19:29:48 > 2^8192 :: Double 19:29:49 Infinity 19:29:53 lawl 19:29:53 er 19:30:01 that's not really infinity........ 19:30:13 -!- elliott has joined. 19:30:14 it's just really big........................................ 19:30:17 Gregor: well it ignored the !help, i was assuming that was the bug happening since !help is unlikely to timeout 19:30:20 oerjan: i'm sure ipv6 is _sufficient_ -- 2^80 atoms in the visible universe and all -- but the technology means no 19:30:26 oerjan: since there's a minimum allocation size 19:30:32 !help 19:30:32 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 19:30:35 elliott: _10_^80 i believe 19:30:36 Hm, weird *shrugs* 19:30:39 and /actual/ allocations are far bigger than that, the usual allocation is many times the whole ipv4 address space 19:30:43 > logBase 2 (10^80) 19:30:44 265.754247590989 19:30:48 oerjan: hmm, good point 19:31:08 elliott: and of course FTL might easily get beyond the _visible_ universe 19:31:12 oerjan: well a one-kibibyte identifier should be just fine for anything, even with a relatively crazy allocation policy. but of course then you can't really type them in 19:31:20 OTOH, in an advanced FTL society, who would type anything like that manually :) 19:31:31 > logBase 10 (2^8192) 19:31:32 Infinity 19:31:36 thanks, lambdabot. 19:31:54 2466 19:31:58 well duh, log(infinity)=infinity 19:32:13 oerjan: so basically a one kibibyte identifier could identify every atom in the visible universe 31 times 19:32:27 oerjan: which, even in an FTL society, should be ok, since we're unlikely to want to actually give atoms addresses 19:32:35 elliott: btw lambdabot gives longer answers in privmsg 19:32:43 heh, strange 19:33:38 log(infinity)=infinity <-- mtwo different infinities 19:33:43 in fact didn't lambdabot use to give longer responses than that in the channel before... 19:33:51 probably 19:33:52 darn modernism 19:35:06 j-invariant: no, not really. there is a bijection... 19:36:17 > 8192*logBase 10 2 19:36:17 indeed, log(x) and exp(x) provide a bijection between the positive reals and the reals...QED 19:36:18 2466.0377244793335 19:36:29 quintopia: hey that is cool 19:36:29 bijection?? 19:36:47 infinity isn't a real 19:37:07 you can fill in the blanks here j-invariant 19:37:17 heh, strange <-- i assume it's an anti-spamming measure 19:37:20 I must read infinitely differently than you mean it 19:37:21 but if you want to make those functions continuous between the extended reals and extended positive reals, infinities would go to infinities right 19:37:28 oerjan: one message can't really be spam 19:37:40 0 <=> -infinity, infinity <=> infinity 19:37:48 oklofok: exactly 19:38:04 Read Euler 19:38:08 what 19:38:13 when he wrote log(infinity)=infinity 19:38:16 he meant something else 19:38:16 elliott: it could still be annoying if it happened frequently, as is easy in haskell because of infinite lists 19:38:47 oerjan: 2^big is just the same as [1..] i don't see the connection to infinite lists here 19:39:01 well yeah, i was, at that moment, making fun of the fact that lambdabot didn't do the lazy thing that preserves precision 19:39:21 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:39:35 -!- cheater- has joined. 19:39:37 elliott: i mean it is sometimes easier in haskell to write something that gives an infinite list even if you just want a few terms 19:39:41 j-invariant: i don't know what he meant, i just went mmmmm topology 19:39:42 right 19:40:04 > let fib=1:1:zipWith(+)fib(tail fib) in fib 19:40:05 [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1... 19:40:16 i golfed that once 19:40:24 didn't we all :) 19:40:29 in here, yes :P 19:41:45 > logBase 10 (2^8192) :: CReal 19:41:48 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:41:53 bah :D 19:42:30 hmm, fibs actually do grow pretty fucking fast 19:42:43 exponnentially 19:42:43 i never realized how few there actually were below 1000 19:42:44 exponentially fast 19:42:46 duh 19:42:47 oklofok: they _are_ exponential up to rounding 19:42:50 phi^n 19:42:51 Back. 19:42:54 well of course i know that 19:43:15 that's how Matiyasevich produce a diophantine representation of the exponential function 19:43:23 hmm, exponential sequences actually do grow pretty fucking fast 19:43:29 using binary quadratic forms to encode matrix multiplication which encodes fibonacci 19:43:31 j-invariant: oh, i didn't know that 19:43:38 cool 19:43:50 * oerjan had been assuming it was something more insane 19:43:57 that was the final missing peice of the theorem 19:44:58 quintopia: btw the :: CReal test above was to see what happened when we _make_ lambdabot do the lazy thing that preserves precision. alas. 19:45:23 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:46:16 the fibonacci word is given by the morphism f(a) = ab, f(b) = a and it's totally sturmian 19:46:22 erm 19:46:32 by taking the limit of a's orbit 19:46:34 oh yeah like an L-system type thing 19:48:02 -!- elliott has joined. 19:48:09 it's a substitution shift system, we made bratteli-vershik diagrams for it during my phd years 19:48:29 that wasn't something entirely new then though 19:48:43 yeah that's very old stuff 19:48:56 i mean the diagrams 19:49:20 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:49:29 a guy at uni gave a few lectures about bratteli diagrams once 19:49:58 what this vershik thing is i cannot understand 19:50:03 ah forum message. in delicious japanese. 19:50:09 hey i can translate! 19:50:21 http://esolangs.org/forum/index.rss 19:50:31 http://esolangs.org/forum/ 19:50:32 :P 19:50:42 "teefanii" 19:50:52 erm 19:50:56 *tifanii 19:50:57 im so bad at group theory :( 19:51:05 j-invariant: me too! 19:51:16 what are you trying to do 19:51:17 oerjan: i'm going to renovate that log-viewer now 19:51:24 but i need a nice web server :( 19:51:49 oklofok: you add an order to the edges above each vertex, this gives you the dynamic map for all paths except one, which will if you do it right only have one possible place to map to 19:51:59 oerjan: it just always has the same stuff in katakana as in the link 19:52:07 classify abelian groups 19:52:23 oklofok: you realize i _was_ joking about the spam, right? 19:52:26 oerjan: yeah we actually talked about that stuff in pm when i had those lectures :D 19:52:38 oklofok: yeah probably 19:52:39 oerjan: "spam"? 19:52:52 oklofok: that forum message is spam, surely 19:53:19 unless tiffanyjewhatever is an unexpected esolang site 19:53:23 oh well right, possibly, i just thought of it as an exercise in translating japanese 19:53:42 but umm, i don't actually remember how exactly substitutions have to do with bretteli diagrams, just that dynamic map thing 19:54:02 j-invariant: oh that old thing 19:54:14 it's a lot of work 19:54:26 I mean finite ones 19:54:32 or at least finitely generated 19:54:38 well of course 19:55:02 "old thing" sort of implies that as abelian groups don't really have a nice little chracterization otherwise afai 19:55:03 k 19:55:08 possibly they do 19:55:21 im not trying to classify the finite simple groups :D 19:55:32 j-invariant: all finite abelian groups are direct products of cyclic ones 19:55:39 oerjan: prove it! 19:55:40 well surely he knows that 19:55:45 he's trying to prove it 19:55:46 yeah 19:55:53 ok it's an exercise? 19:55:57 everyone knows that, no one remembers how it's done 19:56:05 it's something I am supposed to know :| 19:56:05 it's probably actually not that hard 19:56:05 neither do i, on the spot 19:56:15 but i have no idea where to start 19:56:18 oklofok: I tried induction on composition series 19:56:29 i remember that one of the first things you do is characterize the free ones 19:56:31 so that gets it down to classifying abelian extensions of products of prime powers 19:56:37 then you separate into free part and torsion part 19:56:41 -!- nddrylliog has joined. 19:56:43 and then you characterize the finite stuff 19:56:57 back o/ with a good excuse for weird code this time (ie. trojka) 19:57:12 j-invariant: what about separating the different primes first? 19:57:22 i don't even remember what a composition series is :P 19:57:29 ah yeah 19:57:32 they _should_ be separate parts of the product 19:57:44 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:57:45 hmm 19:57:45 since that's true for cyclic ones 19:57:54 !haskell data Foo = A { x :: Int } | B { x :: Int } 19:58:06 yay, that's allowed 20:00:42 so take the elements whose order is p, and then in some totally standard fashion show that part and the rest form the group as a direct product 20:00:50 oerjan: not sure how to seperate 20:00:57 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:01:04 ah clever 20:01:16 -!- cheater- has joined. 20:01:19 but umm, i don't actually remember how exactly substitutions have to do with bretteli diagrams, just that dynamic map thing <-- well for a -> ab, b -> a you basically let each level except the top have two vertices labeled a and b, and up from the a one you have edges to both a and b above, in that order, and from b you have just one edge to a above. so you just read the edges off the substitution. although sometimes you need to massage it a 20:01:27 but once it is seperated you still have to prove it :P 20:02:03 "sometimes you need to massage it a" 20:02:11 j-invariant: prove what? 20:03:10 you have to show the group can't have an element that has order p that is generated by the subset of elements that don't have order p right 20:03:21 i have no idea how to do this 20:03:39 oklofok: it a bit afterward to ensure the "only one path left out" property. 20:03:49 hey oerjan, StateT [String] IO 20:03:50 :( 20:03:53 this code is gonna be so ugly 20:04:01 because whether to show a message or not depends on folded state 20:04:24 elliott: wait are you rewriting your logs in haskell? :D 20:04:42 oerjan: rewriting the formatter, yes, currently it's the ugliest Ruby script ever written 20:04:52 What really hurts my heart is Gauss proved all this stuff without even knowing the word "group" 20:04:59 oerjan: the logbot I might rewrite in haskell too, but really the entirety of what it does is: respond to pings and discard them; log everything else to the current date 20:05:05 so it's trivially swappable 20:05:58 hmm 20:06:12 if the "target" of a MODE command is the channel it's sent to, what should I call the list of names and channels at the end? 20:06:16 elliott: do you really need your state to contain all the lines so far? 20:06:18 affecteds? :P 20:06:30 assuming that's what you are doing 20:06:32 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:06:34 oerjan: no, but I have to keep track of who is in the channel, so that I know which PARTs and QUITs to display 20:06:44 elliott: ah 20:06:48 oerjan: this is because the same bot runs in both channels 20:06:51 erm 20:06:53 just QUITs, actually 20:06:53 oh 20:06:54 NICKs too 20:07:22 -!- cheater- has joined. 20:07:31 oerjan: i am /tempted/ to just make Herobrine log only #esoteric-minecraft, and have the #esoteric part just be an interface to the clog logs 20:07:45 oerjan: but I'm not so sure, since clog is down relatively often and doesn't log perfectly 20:07:50 e.g. notices and stuff 20:07:56 elliott: you could drop the IO part by using lazy input, couldn't you? 20:08:11 oerjan: oh where did IO come from... it's not IO at all actually 20:08:16 it's State [String] Html 20:08:25 ok 20:08:31 where Html is from blaze-html 20:08:32 I want to learn Alice ML, but don't want to learn Standard ML first 20:08:35 still, State is kinda ugly 20:08:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:38 Sgeo: standard ml is nice enough 20:08:47 Does it have OCaml 20:08:50 alice ml seems like a mess 20:08:52 Sgeo: does what have ocaml 20:08:53 OCaml's +. weirdness? 20:08:54 elliott: you _could_ pass the state explicitly you know 20:08:55 no 20:08:57 it doesn't 20:08:58 Oh, good 20:09:06 Sgeo: it instead has a special case for numeric types >:D 20:09:08 (IIRC) 20:09:10 :/ 20:09:17 elliott, FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU 20:09:35 Sgeo: pick one. typeclasses weren't really known at the time 20:09:38 <==not actually that upset) 20:09:39 oerjan: yeah, but "let (realresult,crap) = recurse in (foo:realresult,crap)" is even uglier 20:10:16 elliott: oh and btw you need to get the channel members at the start of each logging period 20:10:22 oerjan: i do 20:10:24 oerjan: and the topic 20:10:35 Wouldn't a logbot in Erlang make sense? 20:10:48 Sgeo: no 20:10:50 oerjan: indeed, one of my gripes with clog is that it doesn't have this, but OTOH it already does the filtering for me 20:11:10 oerjan: still, for clog claiming to be a "raw" format, it omits much and is not trivial to parse 20:11:35 i still need to get fizzie and Vorpal to give me their private logs so I can try and merge everything :P 20:12:43 oklofok: the massaging is usually what we call "telescoping", removing some subset of the levels and collapsing the paths between them to edges. iirc this works if you choose the levels to remove right. 20:13:05 oerjan: I think what I'll do is make the #esoteric logs be formatted clog logs rewound to UTC ... except no 20:13:10 because it'd only update, like, every day 20:13:23 oerjan: OK, I'll stick to using Herobrine's logs for now, and work on getting the clog ones formatted for the archive. 20:13:36 I miss cmeme :( 20:13:42 oerjan: all that sounds really familiar 20:13:46 :t runState 20:13:48 forall s a. State s a -> s -> (a, s) 20:13:50 :t execState 20:13:52 forall s a. State s a -> s -> s 20:14:00 @hoogle State s a -> a 20:14:01 Text.Parsec.Prim stateUser :: State s u -> u 20:14:01 Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Prim stateUser :: State s u -> u 20:14:01 Control.Monad.State.Lazy evalState :: State s a -> s -> a 20:14:32 actually Html is a monad itself 20:14:38 @hoogle StateT s m a -> m a 20:14:39 Control.Monad.State.Lazy evalStateT :: Monad m => StateT s m a -> s -> m a 20:14:39 Control.Monad.State.Strict evalStateT :: Monad m => StateT s m a -> s -> m a 20:14:39 Control.Monad.State.Lazy execStateT :: Monad m => StateT s m a -> s -> m s 20:14:59 oerjan: actually, I could do the filtering beforehand 20:15:10 keep track of nicks and filter out the irrelevant QUITs, and /then/ send it to the html press 20:15:11 yeah, I will do that 20:17:10 oerjan: ugh, having a few common fields in a record in haskell is a real pain :( 20:17:14 why is everything so stupid 20:17:24 elliott: there's also evalState 20:17:33 indeed, that's what I saw :P 20:18:02 * oerjan somehow glazed over the hoogle output 20:18:16 -!- acetoline has joined. 20:18:25 * elliott decides to represent timestamps as a String. 20:18:29 like a boss. 20:19:38 btw i _think_ clog's timezone is local time with DST shifts included 20:20:10 in case you want to get all of the history 20:21:48 elliott: yeah separating the nick handling from the printing sounds like a good idea 20:22:43 oerjan: yeah the DST shifts are going to be a bitch 20:22:46 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:22:48 gah, sometimes I really hate haskell-mode 20:22:52 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 20:22:58 if it can't parse one line, it refuses to indent the rest of your code, forever 20:23:45 * elliott tries the darcs version 20:23:54 elliott: huh it should at least reset when things start at the beginning of a line, i think 20:24:09 oerjan: yeah but it tries to indent based on past lines because it's clever 20:24:15 so if it can't parse it just goes *cry* 20:24:34 unless it's inside literal brackets 20:25:28 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 20:25:58 i still need to get fizzie and Vorpal to give me their private logs so I can try and merge everything :P <-- for my private log, only from mid-2010 and later can be considered even. Before that the format was really screwed up and would be ambiguous. 20:26:01 hm i guess if you have a {} mismatch resetting at things starting at column 0/1 may technically be incorrect 20:26:26 Vorpal: ambiguity is absolutely fine, I remember you talking about it: the specific case is so rare as to be irrelevant, and combined with other log sources + manual disambiguating it could work fine 20:26:44 really everybody's private log would be ideal, but most people's are probably very small :P 20:26:50 OTOH, Vorpal only has like 2008 onwards 20:26:56 elliott, also there could be stuff from nickserv in there earlier. 20:27:00 whereas fizzie I think has the mostpart of the entire channel 20:27:02 Vorpal: sed them out? 20:27:21 oerjan: yeah but i'd rather it just forget that line ever existed rather than giving up for the rest of the file 20:27:22 elliott, yes but how can I trust I got everything out? What I will do is white list to set out the proper stuff 20:27:36 as in channel messages, actions, joins parts and so on 20:28:22 [27 of 27] Compiling System.Console.Haskeline.IO ( System/Console/Haskeline/IO.hs, dist/build/System/Console/Haskeline/IO.o ) 20:28:22 System/Console/Haskeline/MonadException.hs:23:7: 20:28:23 Could not find module `Control.Monad.State': 20:28:24 not this again 20:28:40 elliott, huh? broken installation? 20:29:02 (of ghc I mean) 20:29:11 maybe, or profiling libraries, or something 20:29:15 ah 20:33:03 i hereby appoint myself the channel's archivist since nobody else will 20:33:31 hm actually I could use clog's logs by simply making the proxy request whenever anyone tries to view a log 20:33:35 might be a bit slow though 20:34:45 elliott, and not very nice towards tunes.org 20:34:55 Vorpal: err, no it's not? 20:34:55 elliott, better use a local copy. It isn't large really 20:35:03 it'd only load tunes.org whenever someone loaded a log 20:35:13 if my interface didn't exist, whoever it was would just load up tunes.org instead 20:35:19 hm 20:35:19 the load is exactly the same, what are you talking about? 20:35:31 I'd probably cache, say, 2 days old logs plus 20:35:31 elliott, okay I misunderstood you then 20:35:34 (2 days for allow to UTC adjustment) 20:35:39 but for the latest log it'd load from tunes.org 20:35:43 and the day before 20:36:03 elliott, anyway you need to normalise timezones :P 20:36:11 elliott, my older logs would be affected by this 20:36:22 elliott, but current format records offset 20:36:24 yes, the clog logs will be normalised to UTC 20:36:32 which will make the current day "fun" to stitch together :) 20:36:41 since clog does DST 20:36:48 and I'm not sure there's a non-heuristictastic way to detect this 20:37:08 elliott, my logs use dst too. Since mid 2010 the offset is recorded for every line though. Older logs, not so. 20:37:25 elliott, and the files are split per month by a cron job that triggers once a month 20:37:27 really, logging "HH:MM:SS " in UTC is the sanest way in the long term, plus doing TOPIC and NAMES at the start of each new day 20:37:31 since you can turn that into basically anything else 20:37:38 but you can't reliably turn other things back into that 20:37:48 it's simple to write a log bot that does that too :P 20:37:56 elliott, I log this: 20:37:58 2011-01-22 21:45:56 +0100 it's simple to write a log bot that does that too :P 20:38:09 right, that's imperfect for long-term archiving 20:38:16 there's no point to do the pretty-printing at that stag 20:38:17 e 20:38:21 it's error-prone, as you've pointed out 20:38:24 elliott, actually the timestamp is perfectly possible to extract correctly 20:38:29 elliott, since it records +0100 20:38:32 that's ... not what i said at all 20:38:40 elliott, then I don't see what you mean 20:38:44 indeed. 20:39:24 elliott, oh you mean the raw line. well that would be a hell to pick out since I don't log all channels anyway. I don't log a few really high traffic ones I'm in 20:39:42 elliott, and I prefer it per channel 20:39:45 I'm talking about long-term archiving logging bots, not personal logs. 20:39:50 right 20:39:58 elliott, well you talked about wanting my logs :P 20:40:03 For logging a channel, raw IRC is the only thing that makes sense, because it's the most reliable by far. 20:40:13 Processing = potential for bugs. 20:40:58 Let an Erlang process do the processing, if the processing process collapses, switch to raw logs 20:41:00 elliott, but that can still have bugs 20:41:04 Sgeo: Shut up. 20:41:05 and I'm not sure there's a non-heuristictastic way to detect this <-- well in the autumn you do have a couple hours that can theoretically be undistinguishable if there are no messages in a 1-hour period inside them. i think. 20:41:06 Just shut up. 20:41:32 (assuming you use non-heuristical means to detect when the timezone actually changes) 20:41:35 Vorpal: I'd trust "if PING; respond; else utctime + " " + line; done" about as much as I'd trust any piece of code... 20:41:36 elliott, Better use RAID 1 or better. And ECC memory. And multiple radiation hardened CPUs running in lock step with circuits to compare what they do to flag errors. 20:41:44 oerjan: oh, ofc, i can just look at a database 20:41:48 elliott, ;P 20:42:11 Vorpal: i don't take channel logging _that_ seriously 20:42:16 elliott, :D 20:42:17 but i do take it seriously enough to be sad that clog does it wrong 20:42:27 elliott, iirc there are weird jumps in mid-august some year for clog 20:42:35 elliott, that look DSTish but aren't 20:42:47 once I get this interface up and running, I'm going to start the Chronological Logreading Effort 20:42:49 oerjan can join in! :D 20:43:05 elliott, the best way would be to try to match up sources against each other I think. 20:43:09 2003-present, all clog logs. although we might skip over most of 2004 as it's a wasteland of non-activity. 20:43:16 Vorpal: Thus why I want fizzie's logs :P 20:43:18 elliott, I made an attempt at that but it didn't work out 20:43:26 elliott, netsplits make it a real pain 20:43:46 though I only tried fairly simple algorithms 20:43:49 Netsplits I think I'll just choose one side of... or have two log files for separate quantumly views. Mostly one side is pretty silent. 20:43:58 Vorpal: I'm happy doing most of the work myself :P 20:44:01 for netsplits 20:44:12 elliott, well and clog going down. 20:44:25 Yes, I do wonder why it's so damn unreliable. 20:44:34 no clue 20:45:30 * elliott uses a table! zomg! 20:45:45 (For layout, but actually it's perfectly valid tabular data.) 20:45:55 Specifically, the time and message as two different columns. 20:46:05 Heck, I could even do right-aligned, if I was a fan of hideousness! 20:46:08 elliott, iirc there are weird jumps in mid-august some year for clog <-- darn right i remember that happening too 20:46:15 right-aligned nicks that is 20:46:16 oerjan: oh joy :D 20:46:33 well Herobrine's logging should be pretty consistent from now on ... 20:46:49 it temporarily used a different time zone than usually. it may even have been UTC. 20:46:52 >_< 20:46:58 FML 20:47:04 right-aligned nicks that is <-- you know, I'll just use firebug to change it on the fly :P 20:47:06 or something 20:47:18 Vorpal: Ooh, ooh, maybe I'll have SETTINGS. 20:47:20 elliott, FML? 20:47:23 (No, that can wait for botte.) 20:47:41 yay darcs is compiling 20:47:50 elliott: mad idea: use heuristics based on who was talking when to guess timezone ;D 20:47:56 * elliott kills oerjan 20:48:43 hey it's the only way to detect such a timezone jump i would think 20:49:26 oh or that source matching up thing could also work 20:49:28 oerjan: Wouldn't work here, though. 20:49:48 pikhq: _some_ people may have more reliable schedules than others 20:50:02 And some of us went to bed at 2 AM. 20:50:11 2 am? try 5 am 20:50:15 Dear form: You should probably specify the format the date needs to be in BEFORE telling me I got it wrong 20:50:19 Been there done that. 20:50:32 Just not doing so presently. 20:50:56 elliott, some of the time changes have no lines spoken for a backward jump 20:51:06 elliott, so you can't even detect something fishy going on 20:51:15 only found it by comparing logs 20:51:22 Vorpal: you mean the next time is after the previous one, but in actual fact it's like two hours after? 20:51:24 like 20:51:28 00:00:00, 00:00:05 20:51:30 when in reality it's 20:51:35 00:00:00, 02:00:05 20:51:47 elliott, I mean that you don't have anything like 00:00:10, 00:00:05 and so on 20:51:51 THIS IS WHY WE USE UTC PEOPLE 20:51:56 elliott, where you can see thgy are out of order 20:51:58 they* 20:51:59 Vorpal: well you can easily detect that 20:52:03 Vorpal: "f* my life" 20:52:04 if time goes backwards, yell at the operator, ask them to compare logs 20:52:12 elliott, yes but it doesn't there 20:52:21 right 20:52:24 00:00:00, 00:00:05 20:52:24 when in reality it's 20:52:24 00:00:00, 02:00:05 20:52:26 so that's what i said 20:52:29 elliott, because there are no suitable lines spoken 20:52:37 elliott, yes. something like that 20:52:45 And some of us went to bed at 2 AM. <-- hey at this point that's about what i'm _aspiring_ to do :D 20:52:53 oerjan: Hah. 20:52:55 just to get it regular 20:53:08 oerjan: melatonin not working? :P 20:53:11 oerjan: I've got a class at 10AM... I could do with sleeping earlier. 20:53:23 elliott, or even that a line was spoken at 01:20, and another at 01:40 but in reality it was 01:20 and 02:40 or such. That happened too iirc 20:53:35 Vorpal: right. 20:53:36 elliott: seems to be working, at least somewhat 20:53:40 Vorpal: that's basically what i said 20:56:09 Debian squeeze to be released Feb. 5th. Whooo. 20:56:09 elliott: what vorpal says is just what i was alluding to above with "two hours with a silent 1 hour period within" 20:56:33 right 20:56:40 pikhq: and it's already obsolete! :D 20:56:49 elliott: Not very. 20:56:58 elliott: of course this only happens once a year 20:57:03 pikhq: well it's a gnome version behind at least 20:57:40 (the spring case of jumping forward is not a problem if you know the actual times of DST changing) 21:00:46 holy shit http://haha.nu/entertainment/games/sensation-mario-doesnt-hit-the-blocks-with-his-head/comment-page-1/ 21:00:59 "Wait but if you crouch jump, he'll hit it with his head. So it's kinda both." 21:01:00 YAY 21:01:07 nooo 21:01:12 elliott: More like half of a Gnome version behind; it's using a bizarre hybrid of 2.30 and 2.32. 21:01:17 pikhq: Yeah ... 21:01:28 Not that I care, for I don't use Gnome. 21:01:32 pikhq: This is why everyone should use Alacrity! 21:01:38 ? 21:02:09 pikhq: alacrity-panel is what I'm calling my fork of gnome-panel once it gets abandoned in lieu of GNOME "Shit" 3 21:02:40 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nanavati-panels-alacrity-surprises-rights/363226/ ? 21:02:50 elliott: Ah. 21:02:58 eek nddrylliog came back 21:03:08 epic Google fail btw. 21:03:10 Alacrity was just the first word I thought of :P 21:03:18 elliott: I've been watching you for an hour now 21:03:22 I'm scared. 21:03:41 you should. 21:03:58 I should scared. 21:04:10 Although I couldn't quite make sense out of all this timezone discussion. Logs should be easy :x 21:04:35 (No, you should lazy) 21:05:19 rotfl 21:05:22 what a pun 21:05:33 nddrylliog: it's more that clog sucks :D 21:05:56 i started mc and i see a title: MINECRAFT with flashing, yellow "Technically good!" 21:07:49 technically officially 21:07:55 i have been able to figure out upsettingly little about oerjan from his screenshot, other than that he /still/ hasn't switched to WinGhci 21:08:33 elliott: i have the haskell platform downloaded but i couldn't get it set up the way i like 21:08:35 which screenoshot? 21:08:44 oerjan: you luddite :) 21:08:44 -!- MagiMaster has joined. 21:10:51 elliott: (1) winghci had utterly broken scrolling when the window is not maximized. (2) both winghci and ghci have the unpleasant property of _thwarting_ gvim's attempt to detach from the calling process when i use :e. (winghci has an & prefix to the editor setting which _should_ turn this off but didn't) 21:11:32 oerjan: (1) hm did it? I never noticed that 21:11:38 okay so I'm glad ooc has syntax highlighting by default in gedit now (yes, in Ubuntu 10.10, haha my life is successful) but 1) why all-caps? 2) why the fucking red background on try/catch ??? 21:11:50 oerjan: if you used emacs and inferior-haskell you'd have no problem :D 21:11:56 elliott: bah! 21:11:57 nddrylliog: i know the answers to these questions! 21:12:46 elliott: as for (1) text disappears beneath the window and the scrollbar cannot reach it 21:12:57 iirc 21:13:07 oerjan: actually, you could use emacs just as a host for ghci :D 21:14:25 nooga: http://i.imgur.com/mahzT.png 21:14:34 elliott: nah, seriously. whoever did the default color mappings for gedit must live in a pumpkin-shaped violet house. 21:14:55 nddrylliog: thankfully, nobody uses gedit 21:14:58 oerjan: ugh, seriously 21:15:06 don't tell him to stop using windows 21:15:07 elliott: except drunk and lazy people - ie. me right now 21:15:07 he never will 21:15:08 ever 21:15:09 or IE 21:15:13 ever 21:15:28 oerjan: I'm pretty sure it's in fact NetBSD with skins just to troll everyone 21:15:33 :D 21:15:35 it isn't :P 21:15:42 oerjan is just old-school 21:15:44 hmph yeah they wouldn't be pixel-perfect. 21:15:46 yes, using windows and IE is now old-school 21:15:56 I gave up XP when it would take 10 secondes to Alt-tab between League of Legends and Google Chrome 21:15:58 elliott: technically i used linux for years before this 21:16:13 tbh, oerjan probably battles with computers a lot less than I do 21:16:24 although i guess he doesn't ever compile C :D 21:16:30 * oerjan doesn't like battling 21:16:46 oh joy, parse error even with the new one 21:16:50 gonna fuckin' kill myself 21:16:51 elliott: it has happened, then i use my nvg account 21:16:52 goddamn haskell 21:16:56 -!- elliott has left (?). 21:16:58 -!- elliott has joined. 21:17:00 GODDAMN 21:17:02 who would want to compile C: u_u' 21:17:36 C:, the smiliest language 21:17:43 nddrylliog: to run mcmap! 21:17:46 can't think of any other reasons 21:17:51 oh, the GHC runtime 21:17:52 that's about it 21:18:15 everyone (actually just elliott), stop using words that fail the Googles. 21:18:15 C: is a bit TOO smily. lips should not bend like that 21:18:24 Marine Corps Martial Arts Program is nothing I can relate with 21:18:44 oklofok: Functional languages don't usually bend that much. 21:18:44 https://github.com/fis/mcmap 21:18:50 for us poor minecraft-addicted bastards 21:19:01 oh right. 21:19:10 it's fizzie's thing :P 21:19:18 it also uses glib, so it's fairly horrifying 21:19:29 sort of medium horrifying I would say 21:19:40 haskell, freenode, reddit, minecraft, github, imgur - seems to be a popular combination 21:19:47 ugh glib 21:19:49 * nddrylliog runs back into his lair 21:19:52 i don't like imgur 21:19:57 they've started to make big pngs turn into jpgs 21:20:00 and i can't forgive that :( 21:20:10 also i dislike freenode :P 21:20:24 ...and i'm not the biggest fan of github either, dammit, i refuse to be a stereotype! 21:20:36 @hoogle [a] -> [a] -> [a] -> [a] 21:20:38 Network.CGI.Protocol replace :: Eq a => a -> a -> [a] -> [a] 21:20:38 Prelude zipWith3 :: (a -> b -> c -> d) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] -> [d] 21:20:38 Data.List zipWith3 :: (a -> b -> c -> d) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] -> [d] 21:20:39 not a fan of github? HOW CAN YOU? 21:20:51 nddrylliog: mostly because i'm not such a fan of git 21:20:59 (not for stupid reasons like "lol bad interface" either) 21:21:00 ah right. that I understand. 21:21:03 haskell, freenode, reddit, minecraft, github, imgur - i don't like any of these things 21:21:07 they all suck ass 21:21:08 I dislike hg for the same reason :P 21:21:22 bahhhhh. 21:21:26 specifically, they view the repository in a dumb way 21:21:35 they don't have any concept of patches, just full dumps of the repository contents 21:21:37 elliott: what did you want to hoogle? 21:21:41 oerjan: replace substring :-D 21:21:47 ah. 21:21:47 haskell lacks such advanced functions as these 21:22:09 well it's probably not very efficient with lists 21:22:29 hey, cute, my pet rats fell asleep on my lap. 21:22:39 you can easily write it with isPrefixOf and drop 21:22:39 that is cute 21:22:43 nddrylliog: they're pooping on you 21:22:45 now I can't move 21:22:49 i don't hate pet rats 21:22:53 oerjan: oh right, I should use ByteStrings because of invalid unicode... 21:22:54 not even a bit 21:22:59 elliott: so is C. I'm not doing Haskell for that little. 21:23:02 i was in a pet store just the other day 21:23:07 looking at different kinds of rats 21:23:12 nddrylliog: what 21:23:20 i'd never buy one 21:23:42 -!- TLUL has joined. 21:23:43 oklofok: Why not? 21:23:45 maybe i should store the timestamp properly 21:23:49 like as an actual time thing 21:23:49 oklofok: Rats make great pets. They're like tiny cats. 21:23:51 but that sounds scary... 21:23:52 elliott: C poops on me as well 21:24:03 Gregor: i would never get any sort of pet 21:24:03 elliott: I'm still using it 21:24:04 Gregor: cats are like big rats! 21:24:10 elliott: you want to allow at least both iso-8859-1 and utf-8 in irc lines 21:24:14 nddrylliog: well that's just because you're stupid obviously, can't think of any other reason! 21:24:14 well except a human 21:24:19 oerjan: no, I'm just going to tell the browser it's utf-8 21:24:22 I feel at this point that I should mention that elliott does not like Haskell very much either. 21:24:27 oerjan: anyone who doesn't send utf-8 on irc is lame 21:24:30 hey haskell is alright 21:24:32 as these things go :D 21:24:43 oklofok: you heard elliott. unless you've changed it recently. 21:24:52 wut 21:25:03 i can't parse that line oerjan 21:25:04 oerjan: Nobody uses ISO-8859-1. 21:25:09 except for hitler 21:25:20 he loved ISO-8859-1 21:25:29 elliott: oklofok's messages used to be iso-8859-1 when i checked 21:25:44 oerjan: Though many people use Windows-1252 and call it ISO-8859-1. 21:25:51 well oklofok is a poop 21:26:06 pikhq: i doubt oklofok uses any characters not in the intersection 21:26:14 oklofok should download a real client 21:26:23 like netcat 21:26:56 I wonder what purpose would an util named "octocat" serve. 21:26:58 well if i was a cat, i'd probably eat rats 21:27:13 oerjan: Like... €? 21:27:41 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:27:55 oklofok: even with delicious cat foot being served to you by puny humans? 21:27:57 elliott: so is C. I'm not doing Haskell for that little. <-- hey the proper reason for doing haskell is so you can experience your brain exploding^H^H^H^H^H^Handing 21:27:58 nddrylliog: Clearly it concatenates octopice. 21:28:00 -!- cheater00 has joined. 21:28:19 pikhq: what did i say about words that fail the Googles? 21:28:27 oerjan: exanding? 21:28:50 nddrylliog: hòkukàsiranaiyo.osietekure. 21:28:53 elliott: no, don't tell me you seriously don't see the ^H.. 21:29:03 shush 21:29:08 i haven't counted them :D 21:29:14 pikhq: that's... better.. or worse, can't decide. Omg undecidability. 21:29:31 pikhq: ok € is not in 8859-1, is it in -1252? 21:29:37 oerjan: Yes. 21:30:02 € is actually a nice currency 21:30:12 0x80. 21:30:17 interrupt! 21:30:28 pikhq: O KAY THEN 21:31:24 € is also in 8859-15, or latin-9. 21:32:41 nddrylliog: no pikhq's self-designed japanese romanization is _definitely_ worse. 21:33:17 It's also in ipv6unicode X-P 21:33:29 fizzie: is it in the same place as in Windows-1252? 21:33:59 -!- TLUL has quit (Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*). 21:34:03 oerjan: Of course not. 21:34:04 i recall the 8859-/latin- sets are careful to not move characters 21:34:18 *not to 21:34:47 oerjan: 8859-1 is already "full" if you don't go to the 0x80..0x9f control codes like Windows-1252; 8859-15 just does some replacements. 21:34:53 Gregor: We need to make IPv6nicode :P 21:34:54 orange smoke. hmm. 21:35:09 elliott: Yessssssssss ... I don't even have ipv6 :P 21:35:31 Maybe DNSnicode would be a bit more accessible :P 21:35:37 Gregor: TUNNELING! 21:35:44 The euro symbol in latin-9 replaces the generic "currency symbol". 21:35:48 ¤, that is. 21:35:58 Gregor: The day we get an IPv6 call into the inner loop of Pango's text rendering is the day we succeed. 21:36:16 nddrylliog: does nddrylliog mean anything? 21:36:21 elliott: Yes 21:37:09 it looks vaguely welsh or something 21:37:43 oerjan: no, but "'n ddrylliog" does 21:38:05 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:38:11 close enough :P 21:38:22 -!- cheater- has joined. 21:38:33 oerjan: it means "shattered" in welsh 21:38:43 ah 21:38:48 oerjan: so... well played :) 21:39:37 i thought welsh too when you came in 21:39:53 mrf, looks like I need to convert all this to utf-8, presumably invalid stuff can become the substitution char thing 21:39:54 might need to use Text 21:40:52 elliott: um i just told you not to do that didn't i :( 21:41:15 and if you do historical logs, it will certainly be used even more 21:41:29 I'm a bit confused by nested () in Underload. 21:41:36 oerjan: yeah but i was just going to embed things as-is :D 21:41:39 nddrylliog: what's confusing 21:41:44 It says that ( pushes everything between it and the matching ) to the stack 21:41:48 yep 21:41:51 nddrylliog: (x)a === ((x)) 21:41:53 fwiw 21:41:55 so I understand that (Hello world) would push Hello world to the stack. 21:42:00 yes 21:42:04 and ((Hello world)) would push (Hello world) 21:42:18 but huh ((x)S) ? 21:42:18 elliott: ideally you would check lines for whether they are correct utf-8 and if not you could convert from latin-1 21:42:18 ((Hello world))(bob)* pushes "(Hello world)bob" 21:42:24 or that windows thing 21:42:24 nddrylliog: that pushes (x)S to the stack 21:42:29 yeah but.. 21:42:32 ahh for later evaling 21:42:34 right 21:42:37 oerjan: right, I'll see if I can even use some detection thing 21:42:43 nddrylliog: or output, remember :) 21:42:46 (yes, I do actually use 'evaling' instead of 'evaluation') 21:42:51 right, but who outputs parenthesis anyway :D 21:42:53 who doesn't 21:42:58 elliott: beware of ^A and the like i guess 21:42:58 -!- jix has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:42:58 nddrylliog: um that is kind of vital 21:43:13 oerjan: oh, i've processed that already by this point 21:44:27 elliott: there could be irc colors 21:44:28 -!- jix has joined. 21:44:39 oerjan: this channel is +c, has it ever not been +c? 21:44:52 hm i guess you actually got that escape from that message i pasted, but that's different (i saw it in the screenshot) 21:45:01 elliott: there probably have been occasions. or was that just in #haskell... 21:45:18 elliott: what escape? 21:45:27 it was ^H i think or something 21:45:45 elliott: um that's just ancient unix tradition afaik 21:46:06 oerjan: no no no it was as an _escape_ 21:46:07 in my message 21:46:10 due to xchat colour codes 21:46:14 elliott: i didn't actually write it as one character 21:46:19 I KNOW THAT 21:46:21 i was talking about MY line 21:46:22 jesus 21:46:26 from the time you took the screenshot 21:46:32 -!- Mannerisky has joined. 21:47:51 elliott: oh that one, well it was unrelated to what i did now, although i had been wondering why you pasted control codes 21:49:00 nddrylliog: mind you (Hello world) pushes Hello world to the stack as _one_ item 21:49:02 knjdfgkjkfg 21:49:17 it's not split up into commands or characters 21:49:32 nddrylliog: basically stack = list of string, when you see (, go to the matching ), that string inside, is pushed to the stack 21:49:41 when you see an "a", you add ( before and ) after the top stack element 21:49:47 when you see ^, you eval the top stack element 21:49:47 simple as that 21:51:29 oerjan: yup, I got that far :) 21:51:44 elliott: yeah that's what I had in mind from the beginning but.. I was wondering if the nesting was particular, or not. 21:52:23 in fact you can make a variant of underload which doesn't even have () 21:52:27 although you can't really do IO 21:52:30 right, but who outputs parenthesis anyway :D <-- quines are a tradition and underload quines need them, also i sometimes have used (~aS:^):^ for printing the entire stack with elements in parentheses 21:52:39 (nice for debugging) 21:52:52 simple as this: when you run the instruction %, the previous instruction in the program (lexically) is pushed to the stack 21:52:55 so for instance 21:53:08 ():% makes the stack be (enclosed by []): [][][:] 21:53:18 you can turn this into [:] by doing 21:53:21 ():%~!~! 21:53:31 [][][:] -> [][:][] -> [][:] -> [:][] -> [:] 21:53:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:53:41 so (:) is the same as ():%~!~! 21:53:44 except ofc you don't have () 21:53:48 but err how did I solve that 21:53:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:53:53 I think I had an instruction to push () 21:54:17 fizzie: we have a fungot deficiency 21:55:16 !echo hi 21:55:21 hi 21:55:30 :t mapM_ 21:55:31 forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m () 21:55:36 !underload (1)(2)(3)(~aS:^):^ 21:55:36 (3)(2)(1)Error: Stack underflow in ~ 21:55:43 :t forM_ 21:55:45 forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m () 21:55:58 wtf 21:56:00 ohh 21:56:03 haha :) 21:56:12 oerjan: "(foo .) $ ..." <-- lol@me 21:57:07 elliott: that _could_ be useful in some cases, i'm sure 21:57:24 if the thing to the right of $ has low fixity 21:57:33 the specific case is 21:57:35 formatLines = (table .) $ mapM_ $ \(Line timestamp origin message) -> do 21:57:41 which then continues on the next line 21:57:50 "table . mapM_ $ \... ->" is wrong obviously 21:58:23 elliott: you should use (table .) . mapM_ ... 21:58:29 ./underlood.ooc:46:64 ERROR Invalid use of operator = between operands of type Bool@ and Bool@ 21:58:32 ^ omg. 21:58:41 references are evil 21:58:42 oerjan: :D that's tempting 21:59:46 elliott: um that's recommended style by some, the not chaining $'s that is 22:00:04 oerjan: yeah 22:00:07 but in this case it seems weird 22:02:15 nddrylliog: your compiler SUCKS :D 22:02:16 hm table . mapM_ ( ... ) would be correct but also ugly 22:02:19 or your language, i'm not sure what it is here 22:02:23 oerjan: well the lambda is multiple lines as i said 22:02:40 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:03:03 elliott: yes precisely 22:03:07 No instance for (Data.String.IsString ByteString) 22:03:09 ugh why not 22:04:55 -!- cheater- has joined. 22:05:09 elliott: in this particular case yeah. 22:05:22 nddrylliog: i blame mutability! 22:05:31 >:) 22:05:50 -!- fizzie has quit (Quit: jumpin' jumpin'). 22:05:57 elliott: haha ^^ usually a good call, but.. not in this case :) 22:05:57 -!- fizzie has joined. 22:06:05 elliott: haha ^^ usually a good call, but.. not in this case :) 22:06:07 just for fizzie's logs 22:06:09 since i want them 22:06:13 might as well make them complete! 22:06:19 -!- fungot has joined. 22:06:42 elliott: i think there's another option if you're willing to be more pointy: formatLines ls = table . forM_ ls $ ... 22:06:55 unless i'm confused 22:07:09 oerjan: of course, i'm protesting against the gods of pointiness though 22:07:57 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 22:08:15 elliott: oh, shouldn't it be mapM not mapM_ ? hm what _is_ the monad... 22:08:20 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Client Quit). 22:08:21 oerjan: Html 22:08:25 from blaze-html 22:08:28 it's definitely meant to be mapM_ 22:08:33 formatLines :: [Line] -> Html 22:08:33 formatLines = (table .) . mapM_ $ \(Line timestamp origin message) -> do 22:08:33 tr $ do 22:08:33 td $ time "HH:MM:SS"--timestamp 22:08:33 td $ formatLine origin message 22:08:35 that's the function 22:08:55 oerjan: all the functions in it take Html actions themselves as arguments, so it's a bit confusing 22:09:07 oerjan: in fact IIRC it isn't even a proper monad, only applicative, but they have the instance so you can use do notation 22:09:10 argh 22:09:11 but don't quote me on that 22:09:14 oerjan: argh? :D 22:09:18 it also uses OverloadedStrings 22:09:21 which is why that literal is in there 22:10:55 "* Concatenate the top element of the stack to the end of the second element of the stack." <- so huh.. it mutates the second element of the stack or it pushes the result of the concatenation? 22:11:07 nddrylliog: let [] enclose a stack member 22:11:11 nddrylliog: [abc][def]... -> [abcdef]... 22:11:17 so e.g. if the full stack is 22:11:21 [abc][def][quux][lol] 22:11:22 nddrylliog: no mutation needed in underload ever 22:11:22 the new stack is 22:11:24 oh, okay so pop both and push the result 22:11:25 [abcdef][quux][lol] 22:11:26 right 22:11:30 right 22:11:31 thanks 22:11:33 nddrylliog: or equivalently, pop the top one 22:11:36 and then mutate the new top one 22:11:40 by putting the one you popped in front 22:11:45 s push(s pop() + s pop()) // woo hoo. 22:11:47 nddrylliog: but that's just an obvious optimisation, your compiler does that, right? 22:11:53 i'm sure it does 22:11:54 elliott: obviously 22:11:55 since it's smart 22:11:55 surely 22:11:59 ghc does that, you know 22:12:01 yah. basic stuff. 22:12:01 :D 22:12:09 haha, of course - but what doesn't ghc do? 22:12:16 nddrylliog, what language? 22:12:20 nddrylliog: dependent types! 22:12:27 Sgeo: nddrylliog is the guy who made ooc. 22:12:32 Oh 22:12:50 elliott: that was more of a rhetorical question 22:12:50 by ooc do you mean ook! 22:12:59 oklofok: OH YEAH NOBODY MADE THAT JOKE BEFORE 22:13:01 hum sorry 22:13:05 elliott is a bad example :( 22:13:06 $ grep -i 'Sgeo.*ooc' 11* 22:13:06 11.01.08:23:50:04 Now I'm looking at ooc 22:13:06 11.01.08:23:56:56 I think ooc has more marketers than program language designers 22:13:09 swear he's said more 22:13:10 :D 22:13:15 someone did? 22:13:16 nddrylliog: i corrupt everyone 22:13:20 Sgeo: xD blame our webmaster 22:13:29 ooc is a pretty terrible name, gotta say :D 22:13:34 oklofok: only a thousand times 22:13:42 elliott: what's *your* language? 22:13:47 erm is it like a real language? 22:13:57 oklofok: real-ish! http://ooc-lang.org/ 22:13:58 Can I blame your webmaster for not having a coherent way to determine in which order to read the pages in your tutorial? 22:14:00 say what you will, we have the top google spot for "ooc". That's pretty epic if you ask me 22:14:01 it's one of those fancy new languages 22:14:08 nddrylliog: i have the top google spot for diughsfkjsrthre 22:14:09 hum, okay, had. 22:14:10 feel so proud 22:14:23 elliott: ... it's not a TLA, you jerk. 22:14:23 we have the top one for vjn 22:14:41 * Sgeo pokes 22:14:46 nddrylliog: nqk 22:14:47 oij 22:14:52 SO MUCH UNEXPLORED TERRITORY 22:14:54 :D 22:15:04 abbreviations.com has the top spot for vjn and nqk 22:15:05 http://ooc-lang.org/guide/cool.html "jump to..." that's great 22:15:06 ah here we go 22:15:08 11.01.20:10:37:27 Oh, ooc 22:15:08 11.01.20:16:55:20 How do I keep from being bored while looking at ooc? 22:15:14 I have no idea where to jump to 22:15:18 oklofok: vjn is #3 for vjn here 22:15:26 alright, just in finland then 22:15:33 Sgeo: that's just a rocco clone 22:15:34 or was it docco 22:15:36 or whatever it's calle 22:15:41 d 22:15:43 but the page hasn't been updated in years, maybe it once was #1 everywhere. 22:15:44 the jump to menu looks fine to me 22:15:49 this is obviously not a manual, it's a tutorial 22:15:52 so i have no idea wtf you're complaining about 22:15:57 elliott, yes, but which page do you jump to? 22:16:01 What's the best order? 22:16:02 Sgeo: meh, you've been missing out on all the neat features. 22:16:03 Sgeo: You don't, you read the thing :P 22:16:11 Or whatever. 22:16:13 all i'm saying is top google spot requires absolutely nothing 22:16:14 [[bash -c “curl -L http://ooc-lang.org/install.sh”]] <-- augh, stop teling people to do this :( 22:16:16 bahh. the guides are pretty weak. 22:16:22 elliott: yeah, not my idea 22:16:27 it's a 404 lol 22:16:30 good thing too 22:16:30 oh well, I'm tired of explaining why my webmaster and I are two different persons. 22:16:37 nddrylliog: no no i'm sure you're identical 22:16:38 oerjan: all the functions in it take Html actions themselves as arguments, so it's a bit confusing <-- hm? wouldn't that require it to be simply type HTML a = Action -> a, afaict you couldn't even wrap a in anything more and get a Monad instance 22:16:43 nddrylliog, what should I read then? 22:16:44 I'm guilty for the compiler and the language sucking - mostly. Not the rest 22:16:55 Sgeo: my underload interpreter as soon as it's finished 22:16:57 nddrylliog: but i need _someone_ to blame 22:17:01 oerjan: no it's like 22:17:06 oerjan: "td :: Html -> Html" 22:17:06 elliott: would a pink unicorn do? 22:17:10 oerjan: I think Html is like HtmlMonad () or something 22:17:18 nddrylliog: yeah ok. is it invisible? 22:17:50 elliott, what's wrong with the curl, other than running potentially untrusted code (which you'd end up doing anyway without something so direct) 22:18:01 Sgeo: the latter... ok so the whole compiler is untrusted code 22:18:10 but changing one file in a website to rm -rf 22:18:14 vs., say, hacking into github 22:18:17 or switching a tarball 22:18:19 dunno it just rubs me the wrong way 22:19:11 elliott: nope, it's right there http://www.flickr.com/photos/cv47al/4337354455/ 22:19:13 so what does ooc do 22:19:19 is it the solution to my problems 22:19:28 oklofok: break your heart with mutability 22:19:30 I think it's supposed to be a good compiled language 22:19:33 We need some 22:19:37 there are plenty 22:19:38 for instance haskell 22:19:39 and haskell 22:19:40 and haskell 22:19:41 and haskell 22:19:44 answers to all questions about ooc: No. ooc is the answer to nothing. I'm not marketing it anymore, and I never will be. I'm just having fun with it and figuring out what to implement next. 22:19:47 and why aren't you using haskell 22:19:49 plus: HASKELL 22:19:58 HASKAL 22:20:17 What's concurrency like in ooc? 22:20:24 Sgeo: not pretty. 22:20:28 nddrylliog: that answers most of my questions, thanks 22:20:35 Oh 22:20:41 Sgeo: well. I'm pretty proud of what's going on in http://github.com/nddrylliog/oc 22:20:48 Sgeo: ie threads + coroutines = pretty neat. 22:20:54 Sgeo: but yeah, one could dream of much better. 22:21:06 Sgeo: mostly, mutability and side-effects make it pretty hard to go beyond that 22:21:23 well see in haskell we do concurrency automatically! well not really but the research is vaguely promising. 22:21:24 also, STM. 22:21:32 (I'm not a Haskell fan I just play one on IRC) 22:22:03 * Sgeo still wants to learn Alice ML 22:22:08 elliott: what i mean is in order for (table .) $ mapM_ $ ... to even _type_ the monad used has to be _literally_ the (e ->) monad 22:22:34 same ahaha 22:22:41 elliott: "The research is promising" HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHahahahaha. Sorry 22:23:07 +BWAHHA 22:23:20 elliott: but yeah, sure, chose your poison. STM or Actors, whatever. 22:23:37 oh. I missed the "vaguely". Now it all makes sense. 22:23:37 nddrylliog: actually there were some recent advances in automatic parallelisation 22:23:44 oerjan: well i didn't _test_ it 22:23:52 oerjan: you tell nddrylliog, you're the one who told me that the research seemed promising, vaguely :D 22:24:16 Why is SML a requirement for learning Alice ML? 22:24:18 * Sgeo sads 22:24:41 SAD IS NOT A VERB 22:25:46 elliott: well it was obviously hearsay even as i was saying it 22:25:49 * Sgeo stumbles onto some criticism of Scala 22:25:53 oerjan: moar liek heresy 22:26:01 That comes down to "Most people aren't smart enough to understand it!" 22:26:07 * Sgeo suddenly interests 22:26:13 Sgeo: um isn't Alice ML a _superset_ of SML, or something? 22:26:34 oerjan, I still want a tutorial that assumes no prior knowledge of SML 22:26:44 Sgeo: hm 22:26:52 Just paste it after a SML tutorial. 22:26:57 Vorpal, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNkvASxfEWQ&feature=channel 22:27:21 Wrong channel, but whatever. 22:27:26 most people aren't smart enough to hate Scala 22:27:30 oerjan: well i didn't _test_ it <-- ok so theoretically we don't know yet that it's even well-typed? :D 22:27:31 hahaha 22:27:36 22:35 < nddrylliog> most people aren't smart enough to hate Scala 22:27:46 j-invariant: trust me, I know what I'm talking about .... 22:27:47 o.O? 22:27:53 nddrylliog, may I ask? 22:28:03 ate enough of it, and I study where it's been conceived. 22:28:04 nddrylliog: that was funny 22:28:15 so I'm in a bit of a Scala overload. And really, there's not much to be proud of. 22:28:32 If my compiler sucks, theirs vacuums 22:29:00 **hoovers 22:29:09 scala is terrible :( 22:29:10 >_> 22:29:14 That's... not actually a criticism of the language, just of the main implementation 22:29:17 j-invariant: no brands! 22:29:25 :) 22:29:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:29:43 Sgeo: right. The language isn't pretty either. They like to have 6 different syntaxes for everything 22:30:06 Sgeo: they also like to pretend non-nullability. And lack of side-effects. And they like to care about Big O notation even though their main impl. is slow as fuck. 22:30:49 Sgeo: Scala is the kitchen-sink of the 00s like C++ was the one of the 80s 22:30:56 yeah 22:31:00 that's a good descripton 22:31:01 there's so much stuff that you can actually pick a sane subset and make good stuff with it 22:31:08 I recently asked in #scala if it was worth playing about even though I don't care one whit about JVM compatibility or Java libraries. They said no, due to how many concessions it made for Java compatibility 22:31:12 and lots of people will eventually use it. 22:31:35 Sgeo: haha :) java also made a lot of concessions for java compatibility (can you believe that erasure is *still* an ongoing debate? dear God.) 22:31:47 nddrylliog: It's crazy how much anti-academic sentiment there is, especially when people dismiss languages that aren't hodge-podges of features kludged to work with each other as being impractically "purist" 22:32:19 elliott: ooh, I plead guilty. I've been anti-academic from the start, but I'm getting better. Mostly I fell in love with Scheme when I was forced to learn it. 22:32:26 wnat is erasure? 22:32:55 j-invariant: I'll let Stephen Morley explain it better than me http://code.stephenmorley.org/articles/java-generics-type-erasure/ 22:32:59 Java can't tell a Something from a Something at runtime, I think 22:33:04 I may be mistaken 22:33:16 Sgeo: that's a side-effect of type erasure, yeah. 22:33:28 What six different syntax do you have for everything? 22:33:30 mostly it does all checks at runtime and stores no runtime information on generic specialization 22:33:37 so you don't have generic introspection, for example 22:33:49 zzo38: I was thinking mostly about function definition (ie. def vs () =>, etc.) 22:34:03 nddrylliog: ah that, wasn't there a type soundness error in there at some point 22:34:06 zzo38: apart from that, humm () vs Tuple(), the clusterfuck of operators they have, etc. 22:34:16 j-invariant: couldn't tell but it seems likely 22:34:27 zzo38: oh also Blah() vs new Blah() 22:36:26 nddrylliog: I like the MSE function syntax, just put the function codes inside of { } I also like the Forth syntax that you can just make up your own syntax if the one it has is insufficient for your use. C doesn't have those kind of function syntax, but such things doesn't belong in C and C is good with what it does have. 22:36:58 Maybe I should look into Factor again 22:37:04 Oh gawd 22:37:19 Although its standard libraries seem to be a hodgepodge of ideas 22:37:30 I think it has 20 million different notions of concurrency 22:37:36 nddrylliog: In what program language is Blah() vs new Blah()? 22:37:36 Sgeo: disclaimer: the Factor guys drink a *lot*. 22:37:50 updog 22:37:54 Huh, shutup's dead. 22:37:59 nddrylliog, hm? 22:38:13 nddrylliog, I'm curious as to your opinion of Newspeak. 22:38:15 zzo38: Scala - sometimes you create objects with Blah(), sometimes with new Blah(), may have something to do with case classes, maybe not, I don't even want to look it up 22:38:16 oh dear god 22:38:24 nddrylliog: anyone who comes into contact with Sgeo turns to heavy drinking, I feel 22:38:31 maybe that's just me though 22:38:48 Sgeo: re "hm?": at the emerging languages conf., after the talks we went out for a drinks and all the Factor team was on heavy liquor 22:39:19 Sgeo: re "Newspeak": awesome ideas, sounded very pure, I meant to try it for real one day, and I love the guy (except his taste for arts) 22:39:22 They drink a *lot* of air, blood, poison, acid, alkaline, eyes, tears, and dihydrogen monoxide, and also LSD and beer and wine. 22:39:26 elliott: :) 22:39:51 * Sgeo also has an eye towards Seph 22:39:54 nddrylliog: i read a post where gilad bracha claimed we should switch from filesystems to object databases because it allows for copy protection 22:39:54 no joke 22:40:11 Have I met a language I didn't like? 22:40:21 which is possibly like the biggest gap between the goodness of the justification (extremely bad) and the goodness of the idea (very good) I've ever seen 22:40:36 `addquote Sgeo: re "hm?": at the emerging languages conf., after the talks we went out for a drinks and all the Factor team was on heavy liquor 22:40:47 nddrylliog: Why do you have to use "new" sometimes, but not always? (I know how it works in JavaScript, I don't know how it works in Scala) 22:40:48 278) Sgeo: re "hm?": at the emerging languages conf., after the talks we went out for a drinks and all the Factor team was on heavy liquor 22:41:29 I'm tempted to list languages and see nddrylliog's reaction 22:41:39 nddrylliog is now a celebrity to sgeo! 22:41:41 :D 22:42:29 haha 22:42:34 Sgeo: that would be fun. 22:42:44 oh can i play too??? 22:42:59 Slate, Atomo, Newspeak, Factor, Ioke, Seph, Io, Ruby, Erlang, Falcon, Oz, Alice ML\ 22:43:11 that's too many languages for 10:51 pm in the morning 22:43:21 a bit too many but I'll try anyway 22:43:49 Nimrod 22:44:10 HE HASN'T EVEN ANSWERED YET :D 22:44:50 I'm forgetting some 22:44:56 Slate: I tend to be doubtful when it comes to project with a *blog* for a homepage. But I'm pretty sure I know Brian from somewhere, so I wont criticize his overselling ("OMG SMALLTALK BUT USABLE") 22:45:01 Atomo: buzz buzz buzz 22:45:09 nddrylliog: slate used to have a real homepage 22:45:14 i think they switched it out of laziness recently 22:45:18 since it was dead for like 22:45:19 N years 22:45:22 it's a boring language tho 22:45:36 Newspeak: nested classes ftw. Die, packages, static classes, and other artificial wrappings 22:45:37 the Atomo guy is nice enough, he's a haskell dude, but yeah, concur with nddrylliog 22:45:47 *dependent records ftw. *Die, classes, 22:45:53 *cough* 22:45:54 >_> 22:46:05 i'm just going to publish my opinions as diffs to nddrylliog's 22:46:42 Factor: Half the time I can't quite understand what they're saying - either because they put *so much effort* into writing a kick-ass implementation of a... stack-based programming language, or because of the Whisky. 22:47:12 Probably the whisky. 22:47:19 Also, they prefer "concatenative". 22:47:32 The only non-concatenative stack-based language is, like, Forth :P 22:47:35 Ioke: Ola has a nice gothic look, that's what i remember mostly about it. Also, Steve is a bit pissed off that this rip-off of Io got basically more attention than the original but he doesn't like to admit it. I'm more excited by... 22:47:40 And Forth is very different to e.g. Factor. 22:47:41 Seph: buzz buzz buzz. Waiting to see actual stuff. 22:47:43 I think "new" command in JavaScript should be a function like: New=function(x)(function(){var y={__proto__:x.prototype};x.apply(y,arguments);return y;}) 22:47:54 nddrylliog: Seph looks interesting in that it's immutable! >_> 22:48:04 But yeah, Ioke is like Io: The JVM Edition! 22:48:23 With some functions that Io shold have come with 22:48:31 Although Io lacks things such as any documentation at all. 22:48:37 Or a standard library :P 22:48:44 Io: I'm absolutely in love with both the minimalism and Mr. Dekorte (except for his stance on existentionalism) 22:48:49 elliott: both those are untrue 22:48:57 It was true as of two or so years ago. 22:49:02 elliott: you need a good spank and a recent visit on iolanguage.com 22:49:03 Existentionalism! 22:49:06 I seem to recall Array and String were barren of functions. 22:49:33 Io is like Libertarianism: The Language... but maybe I just say that because I know Steve is one :P 22:50:02 Io's documentation is ... annoying to navigate sometimes 22:50:05 Ruby: I'm absolutely admirative of everyone involved in maintaining 6 implementations of this language. I'm very jealous of their DSLs, and the community is all-around awesome (once you get over the whole rockstar thing). But they're facing the hard challenge that's evolution - as is Python & co 22:50:31 Is it possible to make directory in git that some users can only send files into that directory? 22:50:36 Python's probably the language I have the most experience with 22:50:37 You forgot to mention the part where the Ruby language itself is a gigantic mess :P 22:50:45 Erlang: sounds old and killed, lots of good have been said about it but I'm not too impressed so far. Also, I try not to look at its syntax when I feel dizzy 22:50:47 ...and also that the Ruby community is very douchebaggy thanks to Rails. 22:51:09 Erlang's syntax is what happens when you like Prolog and you want to make a language but it's nothing like Prolog but you'd be betraying the cause if you used another syntax! 22:51:11 elliott, ooh, whining! I love whining about things I can't be bothered with! 22:51:21 Me too!!!!!!!!!!!8327485 22:51:35 It makes me feel superior for not having bothered with them! 22:51:37 Falcon: heard so much hate about it that I didn't even bother looking seriously into it. Looks like it sinks even *more* features than Scala, except it's not done by academics 22:51:43 I swear my brain has a natural supply of liquor. 22:51:47 elliott, CONTINUE WHINING IN DETAIL 22:51:49 Falcon is the worst language ever :D 22:51:49 Oz: yellow brick road? 22:52:02 ah the endless days of fun me and cpressey had mocking it 22:52:04 nddrylliog, elliott and I trolled #falcon a while ago. 22:52:06 I have not had much experience with Python but I did a little bit. 22:52:08 nddrylliog: have you seen how Falcon does monads 22:52:14 nddrylliog: every value has an "out of bound" value which is, I think, a bit 22:52:20 and that's used to implement monads 22:52:21 SOMEHOW 22:52:27 Alice ML: sounds like an educational program poorly written in JDK - but it's actually not. I should take a look at it someday 22:52:41 It failed because there are no language ideas stupid enough that johnnymind wouldn't add them. 22:52:42 I seem to remember suggesting some hideously complicated, useless feature and they started thinking about how to make it work :P 22:52:43 Nimrod: a compromise between Atomo and Falcon, probably 22:52:44 nddrylliog, I think that's the wrong ALICE 22:52:53 Sgeo: yup 22:52:56 Phantom_Hoover: haha, awesome :) 22:53:05 elliott: woha o_O 22:53:10 ALICE is a world simulating thingy, isn't it? 22:53:18 Phantom_Hoover, wrong one 22:53:28 The fact that Nimrod has foo_bar and fooBar and FooBAR as equivalent identifiers saved me from looking at the rest of the language, as I already had confirmation that the author was seriously confused. 22:53:36 It "saves remembering"! 22:53:41 ah bah, by the looks of the Alice homepage, it's' no longer interesting whether a language is Turing-complete. Now people look for Gtk+-complete languages. 22:53:49 Gtk-complete :D 22:53:52 elliott: awww really? 22:53:56 nddrylliog: yeah! 22:54:01 was TCness ever interesting outside of esoteric circles? 22:54:03 :P 22:54:09 elliott: and I thought it would be an ooc concurrent x_x 22:54:16 it's hard to design a general purpose language that isn't TC 22:54:23 nddrylliog: concurrent? 22:54:25 is any mainstream language not TC? 22:54:31 C 22:54:40 C+POSIX is TC technically 22:54:42 C+libc might even be 22:54:44 elliott: %s/concurrent/competitor/, sorry 22:54:49 but bare, standalone C isn't, I don't _think_ 22:54:49 gave away my origins, dammit. 22:54:50 or at least 22:54:56 elliott: you need a good spank and a recent visit on iolanguage.com <-- /me thinks nddrylliog fits in very well here :D 22:54:59 I think you can make pure C TC, but if you do that, you can't host a libc on it 22:54:59 ah bah, by the looks of the Alice homepage, it's' no longer interesting whether a language is Turing-complete. Now people look for Gtk+-complete languages. ← link! 22:55:05 (I'm not kidding) 22:55:06 oerjan: why thank you :) 22:55:14 for instance, consider making char a bignum 22:55:16 elliott: I'm not sure what you mean 22:55:17 then sizeof(void *) = 1 22:55:19 elliott: ah right 22:55:20 and so you can address infinite memory 22:55:21 BUT 22:55:23 if you want a libc 22:55:25 you must define CHAR_BIT 22:55:26 which you can't do 22:55:27 Who is this nddrylliog guy, he's awesome 22:55:36 Phantom_Hoover: the guy who made http://ooc-lang.org/. ok clarification. 22:55:41 the guy who made the language that that page is about. 22:55:49 right 22:56:08 libc I think might be TC because of file io 22:56:14 :) 22:56:28 nddrylliog: more seriously though, Coq 22:56:31 ok that's not quite mainstream 22:56:34 Does libc have file inode numbers or only POSIX does? 22:56:36 but you can't write a non-terminating program in it 22:56:43 zzo38: hmm, not sure 22:56:55 coq is the language where everything is a proof 22:56:59 :D 22:57:01 Have I ever mentioned my insane export-based module system here? 22:57:02 everything is an object? no, a proof! 22:57:06 Phantom_Hoover: i'm scared 22:57:10 elliott: Wiki says Coq is a proof helper or something, not really a programming language imho 22:57:15 Phantom_Hoover, I love good module systems! 22:57:18 nddrylliog: well 22:57:20 Phantom_Hoover: I don't know. Mention it if you want to. 22:57:22 nddrylliog: it is a language 22:57:23 nddrylliog: what is a programming language? 22:57:31 nddrylliog: there are some haskell libraries written and verified in Coq 22:57:33 and then exported to Haskell 22:57:34 (coq can do that) 22:57:39 nddrylliog: you can write plain recursive functions in it 22:57:42 j-invariant: that's a good question. 22:57:45 Basically, export makes visible in / 22:57:45 :D 22:57:49 nddrylliog: In fact, OCaml was invented to implement Coq (seriously!) 22:57:55 This is the *only* way of doing anything with modules. 22:57:56 elliott: oh so it's a bit like untyped lambda calculus? 22:58:03 * nddrylliog ducks 22:58:03 nddrylliog: dependently-typed lambda calculus 22:58:06 :p 22:58:07 haha 22:58:09 is exactly what it is 22:58:12 type theory-based 22:58:21 types :: propositions 22:58:24 values :: proofs 22:58:24 So importing stdio would have to be something like export stdioImports stdio. 22:58:30 dammit, even when I joke, I'm right 22:58:36 nddrylliog: btw the inventor of underload is ais523 in here, more commonly known for http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solved.html (ok, for strange definitions of "common") 22:58:52 Where stdioImports is something that's executed by stdio. 22:59:02 are you kidding? wolfram is sooo mainstream. and WOW. 22:59:19 that explains why Underload is sane at all :) 22:59:30 nddrylliog: Wolfram is _unfortunately_ mainstream :P 22:59:52 nddrylliog: Apparently the Wolfram guys translated his Perl code to Mathematica, and when he tested it, Mathematica segfaulted 23:00:07 elliott: lol 23:00:15 elliott: see, Mathematica sucks too :) 23:00:23 nddrylliog: everyone knows THAT :P 23:00:39 MORE LANGUAGES COME TO MY MIND 23:00:41 * Sgeo goes insane 23:00:46 http://blog.wolfram.com/?year=2007&monthnum=10&name=the-prize-is-won-the-simplest-universal-turing-machine-is-proved <-- this is quite amusing, "haha i'm right! i knew it! i'm such a genius! p.s. thanks to this guy who proved that i was a genius, did I mention I'm a genius" 23:00:47 The fact that Nimrod has foo_bar and fooBar and FooBAR as equivalent identifiers [...] <-- they _totally_ stole that from Reaper. the fact that reaper is neither finished specced nor implemented is _totally_ irrelevant. 23:00:51 -!- Yonkie has joined. 23:00:51 * Phantom_Hoover exports sanity to Sgeo. 23:01:00 OH AND OERJAN IS KNOWN AS THAT GUY WHO WROTE LIKE HALF OF THE HASKELL 98 REPORT 23:01:07 isn't that right oerjan 23:01:11 Phantom_Hoover: access denied 23:01:24 oerjan: are you into leather? 23:01:26 nddrylliog, not in my module system! 23:01:40 i like the idea of forcing other modules to import things 23:01:53 Phantom_Hoover: that line sounds like you should pull out a lightsaber or something right after 23:01:53 (I'm hoping Sgeo will use my module system due to him not being able to resist bad novelties.) 23:01:59 elliott: that's what she said 23:02:14 I have no response :P 23:02:15 * Phantom_Hoover pulls out a lightsaber. 23:02:30 * Phantom_Hoover remembers that he can't use a sabre. 23:02:40 That's what she said? 23:02:44 No, probably not. 23:02:45 Phantom_Hoover: why? it has side-effects? 23:02:47 * Sgeo exports sabre to Phantom_Hoover 23:02:51 * Phantom_Hoover pulls out a lightépeé 23:02:58 Phantom_Hoover: awwwww so close 23:03:03 *épée 23:03:06 lighty pee lol lol 23:03:16 hahaha 23:03:18 nddrylliog: Phantom_Hoover can fence, don't fuck with his text! 23:03:22 gave away my origins, dammit. <-- hey a norwegian might make that error! 23:03:24 He'll poke you! 23:03:35 Damn the French! 23:03:43 oerjan: ooh. That's right, I'm totally Norwegian. 23:03:49 hey, I'm only half-french. 23:03:51 where are you from anyway 23:03:52 -!- Yonkie has quit. 23:03:54 you asked but didn't answer :D 23:03:57 damn you multithreaded brain 23:03:58 >< 23:04:03 -!- Yonkie has joined. 23:04:08 -!- Yonkie has quit (Excess Flood). 23:04:17 -!- Yonkie has joined. 23:04:21 -!- Yonkie has quit (Excess Flood). 23:04:23 from France, studying in Switzerland, got both nationalities. 23:04:53 cool... apart from the french part, I think I have to hate you for that 23:05:01 -!- Yonkie has joined. 23:05:05 -!- Yonkie has quit (Excess Flood). 23:05:10 nothing personal, it's just that you're all smelly and unwashed 23:05:40 Going to watch more DS9 23:05:49 I think I like where this season is going 23:05:57 * Phantom_Hoover remembers that Scottish people are meant to like the French. 23:06:07 Presumably because they also hate the English. 23:06:08 * zzo38 pulls out a lightbulb 23:09:01 elliott: oh really? that's false, now that exams are over 23:09:13 but you're French 23:09:24 although I guess you might have reformed, since Switzerland is probably pretty clean 23:09:28 might be socially unacceptable not to be and such 23:09:51 oerjan: are you into leather? <-- er what, no. is that because i approved of your spanking comment? 23:10:09 i think it was because you wrote half of the haskell 98 report :D 23:10:32 ....the Factor people actually criticise Joy for an insufficient module system? 23:10:33 isn't that right oerjan <-- well with enough orders of magnitude correction... 23:10:35 Pot, meet kettle 23:10:44 lol @ criticising Joy for anything 23:10:46 oerjan: nope, because you're into Haskell 23:11:03 nddrylliog: he wouldn't be accepted as a Modern Haskeller, he uses /Hugs/ for chrissakes 23:11:10 ooooh. 23:11:12 old-school. I like it. 23:11:16 Hugs hasn't been maintained for half a decade, I think 23:11:23 last release 2006 but it was dormant before that 23:11:25 *over half 23:11:26 "Primarily for teaching", says the Googles. 23:11:29 elliott, it's not that they're criticising Joy, it's that Factor has some severe deficiencies 23:11:41 http://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Factor/FAQ/Why%3F 23:11:48 Ooh yeah, I like the academic world - dump awesome research proof-of-concept on an ftp somewhere and forget about it 23:12:13 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:12:22 nddrylliog: Hugs wasn't really dumped :P 23:12:35 last releases were November 2003, March 2005, May 2006, September 2006 23:12:37 elliott: it was a consensual break-up? 23:12:37 then GHC took over the owrld 23:12:39 *world 23:12:48 nddrylliog: more like GHC murdered hugs 23:12:54 aw c'mon this one was good :D 23:12:55 THE END OF HUGGING 23:12:58 what about huh 23:13:06 that haskell compiler.. forgot its name now 23:13:11 yhc? 23:13:12 nhc98? 23:13:14 LHC? 23:13:49 oh right http://lhc-compiler.blogspot.com/ 23:14:00 what about it 23:14:24 lhc is like mlton for haskell i think 23:14:29 -!- cheater- has joined. 23:14:39 except... with bytecode 23:14:40 or something 23:15:20 I have no idea, but their blog articles are freaking awesome. To the point that I bookmarked it. (I never bookmark anything - much less browse my bookmarks) 23:15:39 approx. of the same level as the Factor blog 23:15:55 oerjan: nope, because you're into Haskell <-- elliott is seriously exaggerating, i just sent in some typo corrections while i was reading the haskell report. although haskell _is_ the language i use on most of the rare occasions when i actually program 23:16:06 no no oerjan wrote 3/4s of the report 23:16:07 he's just so modest 23:16:09 so so modest 23:16:30 haskell 98 was a mistake anyway, they removed monad comprehensions :( 23:16:37 and that's why nobody comprehends monads nowadays 23:16:39 :D 23:16:53 oh that was a good one 23:17:02 * elliott links http://arcanesentiment.blogspot.com/ since it's another blogspot blog worth bookmarking along with the lhc one and factor's :P 23:17:18 it's not a non sequitur, it's just a really complicated sequitur! 23:18:56 oh that was a good one <-- this is awkward, i don't think i've made a single pun today 23:19:00 :D 23:19:07 you're getting old oerjan 23:19:09 old and punless 23:19:11 nddrylliog might get the completely wrong impression 23:19:19 yeah he might think you're like 50, not 40 23:19:21 whoops 23:19:30 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 23:19:33 have you considered getting checked for alzheimer's 23:19:42 (or do you keep forgetting :D) 23:19:42 elliott: i keep forgetting 23:19:44 haha 23:19:47 *hi5* 23:19:48 brb 23:20:30 Do you think some Japanese guy might have a implementation of AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! programming language? 23:20:45 Why Japanese :P 23:21:01 elliott: it hardly hurts for insanity 23:21:29 elliott: I saw the scans of pages of some Japanese book mentioning this programming language. 23:21:45 Haha, really? 23:21:46 it was iirc a japanese guy who found out how to program malbolge 23:21:52 You're famous :P 23:21:57 (properly) 23:22:00 I still need to write the Esoteric Book 23:22:30 Yes really there is some Japanese book mentioning AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! programming language. 23:22:53 elliott: What is the Esoteric Book? 23:22:58 A book of esoteric! 23:23:18 Can you print one of the pages upsidedown by mistake? 23:23:25 (Or by deliberate?) 23:23:25 zzo38: just some advice, when you get so famous that the japanese ask you to come to one of their tv shows, DON'T ACCEPT 23:23:30 :D 23:23:57 doing it by mistake might be _more_ impressive, at least now 23:24:16 -!- nddrylliog has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:24:45 -!- nddrylliog has joined. 23:24:48 oerjan: Whether or not I accept is my own choice; usually I do not accept to come on to some TV show. 23:24:58 _usually_? 23:25:35 re 23:25:35 zzo38: it's just that japanese tv shows can be _uncomfortable_, i hear 23:25:48 elliott: In this case, "usually" meaning, if it ever happens, but it never does and probably never will. I have no intention to be on some TV show, anyways. 23:26:08 nddrylliog: re? 23:26:24 rewb if you prefer, but that's ooc folklore 23:26:31 ablative singular of res 23:26:31 But if I *do* go on some Japanese TV show, I should learn better speaking Japanese!! 23:26:32 or "back" 23:26:47 zzo38: you are invited to TV shows? what have you done? 23:26:53 I doubt he is:P 23:26:55 *is :P 23:27:00 "meaning, if it ever happens, but it never does" 23:27:05 nddrylliog: I hever have been. And I probably never will. And I do not intend to. 23:27:28 nddrylliog: it's all my fault, as usual 23:27:38 oerjan: ha! I knew it. 23:28:13 But some Japanese people have written things related to things I have made. (This has happened more than once.) 23:28:17 so my Underload interpreter is almost finished. 23:28:24 http://blog.wolfram.com/?year=2007&monthnum=10&name=the-prize-is-won-the-simplest-universal-turing-machine-is-proved <<< god i hate this man 23:28:35 And by finished I mean ready for inclusion in the next Ubuntu, leading to a riot of the masses and its dubious cover-up 23:28:48 any likeliness with PulseAudio is pure speculation 23:28:50 oklofok: he's the worst :P 23:29:03 nddrylliog: the solution to a deficient layer of abstraction is another layer on top of that! 23:29:07 welcome to Linux! 23:29:35 Should I write Underload interpreter in TeXnicard? I expect it is probably possible. 23:29:44 nddrylliog: make sure to test it on my rule 110 interpreter. then you can be vaguely wolfram-related too! 23:30:14 HELLS YEAH 23:30:25 oerjan: it's not on the wiki though i don't think 23:30:34 elliott: um sure it is? 23:30:40 well ok maybe it is :D 23:30:56 * nddrylliog quickly googles rule 110 23:31:14 that's not the if there's no binary porn of it, reinstall gentoo, right? 23:31:21 ah, no. 23:31:23 no, that's 34 23:31:35 Rule 110 is the cellular automata rule. 23:31:41 34b maybe 23:31:48 It is mentioned on Wikipedia. 23:31:53 okay 23:32:04 although you could easily modify the interpreter to do wolfram's rule 34 instead 23:32:10 what's the other one suspected to be "universal" that has those weird mushrooms 23:32:27 um like uh what was the number again 23:32:28 dunno i forgot 23:32:36 30 is the really random one 23:32:41 right 23:32:42 or one of them at least 23:32:43 so huh now that we're acquaintances, is Banana Scheme actually possible in this universe? 23:32:53 nddrylliog: probably not 23:32:55 cause I really like the article but I can't figure out its level of seriousness 23:33:17 nddrylliog: it's mathematically serious, just not physically possible 23:33:18 I'm particularly fond of the "our Scheme would require a transfinite ordinal datatype - not a big deal." part 23:33:25 nddrylliog: it's serious theoretical comp sci and an utter joke of software engineering :P 23:33:32 oh it is 54 23:33:44 elliott: as is the whole theoretical computer science, right? :D 23:33:45 it's just very ininteresting from 00000100000 23:33:49 nddrylliog: well it _might_ be possible that there are super-turing computers in this universe. 23:33:51 *u 23:33:56 nddrylliog: (the opposite of the Church-Turing thesis) 23:33:59 nddrylliog: but it seems unlikely 23:34:13 well 23:34:16 nddrylliog: there aren't, pretty much 23:34:16 oklofok: 54, hm wasn't that from a different numbering scheme, not elementary ones 23:34:19 since there are no Turing machines 23:34:26 nddrylliog: basically "is possible" is really ill-defined 23:34:29 maybe Turing machines are just an uncomfortable basis for computing 23:34:29 totalistic iirc 23:34:31 Brainfuck isn't even possible in its TC form! 23:34:41 because there are no machines with infinite memory, that we know of :P 23:34:42 right 23:34:48 elliott: /dev/null 23:35:03 http://uncomp.uwe.ac.uk/genaro/Rule54.html 23:35:05 reminds me of that epic prank http://www.supersimplestorageservice.com/ 23:35:08 but no, you will never see a proper Banana Scheme interp. 23:35:11 oh i love that 23:35:52 :) 23:35:57 oerjan: no same scheme 23:36:42 I'm particularly fond of the "our Scheme would require a transfinite ordinal datatype - not a big deal." part <-- it's easy to implement some of them, like < epsilon 23:37:08 you don't even really need that 23:37:17 since like 23:37:24 in Scheme-omega+1 or 1+omega or whatever it's called 23:37:27 you just need "omega" to be a value 23:37:31 nddrylliog: it's serious theoretical comp sci and an utter joke of software engineering :P ← yeah, but SE is stupid and only idiots do it in favour of theoretical CS. 23:37:37 ok when you get beyond that and need infinite of them, but jofgsfhjkl,hlkfjhdklhj what am i saying 23:37:40 *idiots and Sgeo 23:37:47 Phantom_Hoover: i meant software engineering as the doing things part, not as a subject 23:37:50 oklofok: ok i might be thinking of another one then 23:37:58 Blargh 23:38:00 software engineering could be a good field but it's being done badly 23:38:56 I was under the impression that SE was for those antiïntellectual "CS is for ACADEMICS IN IVORY TOWERS" programmers. 23:39:12 You know, the ones who are the reason most programs suck. 23:39:24 Phantom_Hoover: right :) Guilty as trolled. 23:39:44 elliott: the whole problem is to have something super-turing complete in the first place 23:39:59 nddrylliog, super-TC computers are actually surprisingly plausible. 23:40:09 Uh huh :P 23:40:12 For strange definitions of plausible. 23:40:18 FTL, for instance, would imply superturing computers. 23:40:25 hmm, would it? 23:40:31 some believe in an omnipotent entity above the clouds 23:40:32 Violation of causality. 23:40:35 * nddrylliog tries to remove the mental image of Super-Turing from his mind. 23:40:38 :D 23:40:41 like he got his super powers from the apple or something 23:40:58 why would you ever try and remove that image 23:40:59 you should cherish it 23:41:05 Is it Gödel? Is it Alonzo Church? No, it's SUPERTURING! 23:41:11 haha xD 23:41:14 epic. 23:41:31 Gregor, COMPOSE A THEME TUNE RIGHT THIS MINUTE 23:41:50 Phantom_Hoover: http://codu.org/tmp/silly.ogg Forget you've already heard this. 23:42:01 It is now SuperTuring's theme. 23:42:02 Gregor, NOT EPIC ENOUGH 23:42:09 It's pretty damn epic :P 23:42:13 We are talking about ALAN TURING WITH SUPERPOWERS 23:42:16 Gregor: what did you use to make that stuff again 23:42:25 oklofok: ...??? 23:42:25 Gregor: you're surprisingly responsive 23:42:35 nddrylliog: Should I not be? 23:42:36 The SUPERMAN theme tune is not epic enough for that. 23:42:42 Gregor 23:43:04 Gregor: it makes me reconsider my whole conception of an idler 23:43:13 Gregor is not an idler :P 23:43:22 nddrylliog: ... I am not in any sense an idler. 23:43:35 Of all the idlers in this channel, you pick the guy who isn't an idler. 23:43:40 Gregor: forgive me my rapid and equally bad assumption 23:43:44 mtve, now he's an expert idler. 23:43:53 mtve: kitty kitty kitty 23:44:00 i'm an idler 23:44:09 * nddrylliog pulls out his pocket watch 23:44:18 `addquote mtve, now he's an expert idler. mtve: kitty kitty kitty 23:44:19 279) mtve, now he's an expert idler. mtve: kitty kitty kitty 23:44:20 i'm never really here 23:44:22 * nddrylliog gives a snug look to the white rabbit with a jacket 23:44:28 Make music with seven and a half tones in one octave 23:44:46 ooooooooh Underload works well. 23:44:55 to the test benches! 23:45:14 bet it's SLOW because your language is SLOW 23:45:22 (INHERENTLY) 23:45:35 nddrylliog: how come it took you this long to make underload work? i bet i could do it faster in clue 23:45:41 the violence is inherent in the system 23:45:41 :D 23:45:44 hum, something's broken. 23:45:45 yeah clue is pretty bestest 23:45:50 perhaps even the most bestest 23:45:53 oklofok: because I'm trying to write *really awful* code and it takes time 23:45:55 in fact i would've finished it hours ago, and it might even have compiled by now. 23:46:01 well. 23:46:02 at least soon. 23:46:03 :D 23:46:06 that's a bit optimistic! 23:46:41 nddrylliog: oh well, then i guess we couldn't really compete, as you can't write bad code in clue 23:46:42 nddrylliog: but in clue you cannot _help_ but write awful code 23:46:45 * oerjan ducks 23:46:49 nono 23:46:51 on the contrary 23:46:54 you can't write any code 23:46:56 so you can't write bad code 23:47:03 indeed 23:47:09 oh right. 23:47:21 see in clue, you don't have to program, you just need to give a few hints and the high-iq compiler will do all the work for ya. 23:47:29 :D 23:47:29 a few hints 23:47:33 a few hints 23:47:39 but does clue even have IO 23:47:42 no 23:47:45 but you can call functions using luatre 23:47:48 and that's good enough 23:47:54 well no, and you can't actually call any of your functions 23:47:59 but yeah there's luatre 23:48:07 wth is luatre 23:48:13 oerjan: my expression language for clue 23:48:17 also the name of the bot that runs it 23:48:29 yeah so you can test the programs without directly calling the python functions given by the compiler 23:48:30 it's basically just function name(arg arg arg ...) 23:48:33 and [thing thing thing] 23:48:35 and integers 23:48:37 that's it 23:48:49 btw elliott, parenthesis are perfectly legal in names... :D 23:49:21 at least i think so 23:49:39 oh god it's 2 am 23:49:49 i didn't do anything today, shit :DS 23:50:15 i knew it, the minute i open irc after a week of offlinity, i'm stuck forever 23:51:31 ndd@naku:~/Dev/underlood$ echo '(()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^' | ./underlood ~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^ You dun goofed: Trying to pop an empty stack. 23:51:38 ^ that doesn't sound good. 23:51:53 *underload 23:51:56 xD 23:51:59 <3 oklofok 23:52:00 you have to start over, since you even typoed the name 23:52:09 eveerything is wrong 23:52:12 *everything 23:52:29 ^ul (()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ 23:52:29 */*/**/***/*****/********/*************/*********************/**********************************/*******************************************************/*****************************************************************************************/********************************************************************************* ...too much output! 23:52:48 wow that's one helluva fast growing sequence 23:53:04 goddammit that's fast 23:53:13 is it?? 23:53:15 of course, you already said so earlier today 23:53:17 it's like hey i'm here NO I'M NOT I'M SOMEWHERE COMPLETELY ELSE 23:53:26 oklofok: right. Learn to spell everything and come back to denounce my bad plays on words. 23:53:39 -!- azaq231 has joined. 23:53:53 -!- azaq231 has quit (Changing host). 23:53:53 -!- azaq231 has joined. 23:53:53 nddrylliog: well i can't learn to spell *everything* wait i see what you did thar haha :DDDD 23:54:16 * nddrylliog facepalms. 23:54:21 ;D 23:54:23 :DS 23:54:28 actually, make it double 23:54:40 MAKE ME ONE WITH EVERYTHING 23:54:59 okay, my headache migrated to my stomach. That's not a good development. I'm gonna lie down and watch Starcraft II replays while you continue make the world an esoteric-er place. 23:55:09 alright 23:55:09 xoxo <3. 23:55:23 one for me, one for oerjan 23:55:29 but we have to split the heart 23:55:35 eek 23:55:37 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:55:51 i hear that symbol actually comes from the shape of a woman's ass 23:55:57 how heartbreaking 23:56:11 you probably meant to say that before what i just said 23:56:33 or DID he 23:56:45 that's what SHE asked 23:56:46 ...i heard the symbol comes from the shape of an ancient contraceptive seed or fruit 23:56:50 oklofok, erm, given that real hearts have that general shape. 23:57:05 they do? 23:57:05 oh btw if anyone wants to look at funny code: https://gist.github.com/791639 23:57:23 i thought the heart was a random lump 23:57:52 nddrylliog: wow this is the worst code i've ever writte 23:57:54 *written 23:57:56 erm 23:57:57 read 23:58:00 i _also_ heard that it was shaped from a _pigs_ heart because most people didn't actually know what a human heart looked like (autopsies being illegal and stuff) 23:58:01 i applaud you 23:58:07 *pig's 23:58:12 elliott: aww thank you :) 23:58:14 elliott: yeah who write load as "lood" :D 23:58:19 oklofok: EXACTLY 23:58:25 nddrylliog: that main interpreter loop is... impressive :D 23:58:51 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:58:52 elliott: 25% of it is workarounds for the compiler messing up scope capture for nested closures 23:59:28 -!- cheater00 has joined. 23:59:30 i gotta tell you dude, i am so not regretting ignoring ooc, sorry man :D 23:59:30 elliott: which in turns prints a shitload of warnings for "Statement with no effect"... 23:59:33 lemme know when you get that better compiler written 23:59:38 haha 23:59:41 and also remove side-effects *shot* 23:59:45 that code is pretty 23:59:51 How can I make permission to send git some people only some directories, in case some people are different part of the project, such as documentation, testing, templates, general notice, etc. ?