00:00:04 <quintopia> mv: cannot move `coppelius/' to `../coppelius': Directory not empty
00:00:18 <quintopia> it doesn't say which directory is not empty!
00:00:26 <elliott> quintopia: obviously the latter :)
00:00:30 <elliott> that message is too specific!
00:00:37 <elliott> quintopia: it should just say "already exists" tv
00:01:02 <elliott> a fine example of when trying to be too user-friendly backfires
00:02:06 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/178871922613507/178871922613507.ogg SONiVOX does brass A-OK
00:06:01 <oerjan> elliott: except it probably works if the target exists and _is_ empty
00:06:28 <elliott> oerjan: yeah, but a slightly incorrect but vastly more useful message is better
00:06:38 <elliott> imo "mv foo ../foo" should make ../foo/foo if ../foo exists
00:06:47 <elliott> although i don't know what command quintopia used
00:07:29 <oerjan> now what if ../foo/foo already exists? >:)
00:14:12 <elliott> hmm can rsync synchronise a directory in one file?
00:14:19 <elliott> i guess that's just called tar
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00:38:06 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
00:38:12 <Gregor> Whoops, that's fungot ...'
00:38:13 <fungot> Gregor: i never said mine was turing complete, it's actually some neat magic. i think lmfs used host names too, but that
00:38:15 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
00:39:48 <pikhq> 2 more Matrix sequels coming.
00:40:20 <Gregor> pikhq: http://codu.org/webmidi/ looka the cool web service I made!
00:40:25 <elliott> The school mentioned does not exist, no appearance was made at the real similarly-named school.
00:40:27 <Sgeo> I've seen the sequels and the latter part of the original
00:40:36 <elliott> Sgeo: You should just kill yourself.
00:40:38 <pikhq> elliott: Oh. Thank God.
00:40:43 <elliott> You will never be able to enjoy the original movie.
00:40:49 <elliott> Oh wait Sgeo probably loved the sequels.
00:41:11 <pikhq> elliott: I will give the sequels this: definitely better than the Star Wars prequels.
00:41:19 <quintopia> we're talking about the fact they've decided to make sequels to the Matrix
00:41:39 <pikhq> They don't make you want to murder the Wachowski brothers, just beat a bit of sense into them.
00:42:17 <pikhq> "Psuedo-philosophical wanking is *not* how you follow up a decent action film, dammit."
00:42:19 <elliott> If we're going for unsubstantiated rumours, shouldn't you say "Wachowski siblings". :p
00:42:43 * Sgeo decides to abuse Gregor
00:42:45 <Sgeo> 's web service
00:43:00 <quintopia> gregor: make a webservice that converts strings to short bf code that generates those strings. i couldn't find one, and it's such an obvious tool to have.
00:43:02 <elliott> To play ALL OF HIS FAVOURITE MIDIS
00:43:05 <elliott> "It sounds too good!!!!!!"
00:43:22 <elliott> !bf_txtgen QUINTOPIA IS FA
00:43:23 <elliott> !bf_txtgen QUINTOPIA IS FAG
00:43:29 <Sgeo> Even I wrote such a tool
00:43:31 <Gregor> (!bf_txtgen is kinda slow though :P )
00:43:39 <Sgeo> Then again, my tool is crappier than bf_txtgen
00:43:39 <pikhq> elliott: As Larry still goes by "Larry" and claims to be male, they're still brothers...
00:43:42 <quintopia> how many newlines can i put in it?
00:43:47 <elliott> pikhq: I said "unsubstantiated rumours". :p
00:43:53 <elliott> quintopia: get the tool itself
00:44:04 <EgoBot> 140 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++>+++++>++<<<<-]>---.>+.>+++.<<---.>-.<+.+.>>.--------.>++++.<++++++++.<-.>>.<---.-----.>----------------------. [883]
00:44:05 <EgoBot> 143 +++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>>+++.++++.------------.>>.++++++.-----.+.<<.<.>>++++++.<.>>+++.<.<---.<.>+.>----------------------. [368]
00:44:05 <EgoBot> 62 ++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>+><<<<-]>.---.>+++..--------.>--. [438]
00:44:07 <quintopia> elliott: how can i do that without downloading and compiling something?
00:44:18 <elliott> quintopia: what have you got against compiling
00:44:22 <elliott> specifically javac in this case
00:44:22 <Sgeo> Gregor, is SONiVOX better than Unison?
00:44:37 <elliott> quintopia: well sucks to be you then
00:44:40 <pikhq> elliott: Given the various claims, though, I get the *feeling* that he enjoys crossdressing. Of course, even that is somewhat unsubstantiated.
00:44:42 <elliott> #esoteric is not your personal army of... text generators.
00:44:50 <pikhq> (and quite different from being transgendered, besides)
00:44:58 <Gregor> Sgeo: Haven't tried Unison, will give it a shot.
00:44:59 <quintopia> yes. it does suck for me. you assholes.
00:45:01 <Sgeo> quintopia, there's a text generator somewhere in my PSOX stuff
00:45:20 <Gregor> Sgeo: It's much, much bigger, that's for sure.
00:45:37 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/187322163012/187322163012.ogg HOLY FUCK YES (except the percussion is still way too loud)
00:46:20 <elliott> Gregor: Do the Onerously Uptight Toccata or whatever that really good one was from algorhythms
00:46:22 <Sgeo> It sounds like an AW song
00:46:25 <Gregor> elliott: Zeal from Chrono Trigger.
00:46:39 <Sgeo> No, a BYOND song
00:46:40 <elliott> I should really get around to actually playing Chrono Trigger sometime >__>
00:46:54 <elliott> quintopia do you need minecraft i need counsel
00:47:02 <Sgeo> Gregor, now find which one of my nonusefullynamed MIDIs that is
00:47:30 <elliott> Sgeo is the only person on earth who keeps MIDIs for nostalgia purposes.
00:47:51 <elliott> Gregor: You should make it automatically turn down percussion or something :P
00:48:07 <Gregor> elliott: 'snot that easy >_>
00:48:28 <Gregor> elliott: And once it gets into the song, I kinda like having the crazy-loud clacker :P
00:48:56 <elliott> Gregor: To be perfectly honest, the way the percussion sounds and echoes against the sparse background just makes me think of In The Air Tonight :P
00:49:06 <elliott> I know that's completely illogical.
00:49:27 <Gregor> elliott: I finally found a workaround for many of FluidSynth's bugs though ... if I give it a 2-second MIDI file with no audible notes before the actual MIDI file, then it applies all its bugs and bullshit to that one instead :P
00:49:48 <Sgeo> What are FS's bugs?
00:50:07 <elliott> "PLEASE ENUMERATE ALL THE BUGS OF THIS BUGGY PIECE OF SOFTWARE FOR ME:"
00:50:14 <elliott> I swear Sgeo acts like a non-programmer.
00:50:56 <Sgeo> Gregor, I love you http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/187671562520370/187671562520370.ogg
00:51:08 <Gregor> # fluidsynth's broken options:
00:51:08 <Gregor> # -i (no shell): Crashes 99% of the time
00:51:08 <Gregor> # -F (fast render): Doesn't map programs properly
00:51:08 <Gregor> # MIDI files: doesn't work with -f
00:51:08 <Gregor> # SF2 files: doesn't allow loading with an offset, so will clobber each other
00:51:26 <elliott> Gregor: Sgeo is proposing to you.
00:51:35 <elliott> Sgeo: Wow that is the worst song I have ever heard.
00:51:38 <Gregor> elliott: I think he's proposing to an ogg file.
00:51:42 <quintopia> ^bf ++++++++++.>+++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++>+++++>++<<<<-]>>+++++.++.>--.<++++.---------.++++++.>--.>++.+++.<<++++++++++++++++++.<-----.----.+++++.>.<--.>++++.------.>>---.<-------------.++++++++++++++++++++
00:51:47 <Gregor> elliott: But the soundfont is awesome ;)
00:52:58 * Sgeo queues another file
00:53:07 <Sgeo> Maybe I should just download SONiVOX
00:54:51 <Gregor> elliott: It is awesome http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/19004299946313/19004299946313.ogg
00:54:58 <elliott> Gregor: The Algorhythms one?
00:55:16 <elliott> Gregor: Oh god this is sex.
00:55:29 <elliott> LINK ME TO ALGORHYTHMS AGAIN
00:55:37 <Gregor> http://codu.org/algorhythms/
00:56:15 * Sgeo vaguely wonders what being blind has to do with soundfonts
00:56:26 <elliott> Gregor: I love 28-29s in Tocatta thingy whatever it's called.
00:56:32 <elliott> Gregor: When everything stops for a split second :P
00:56:42 <Gregor> elliott: 55ish is the best
00:57:05 <Sgeo> Why does http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/1917664324275/1917664324275.ogg seem broken?
00:57:28 <elliott> http://codu.org/algorhythms/?list
00:57:35 <Gregor> Sgeo: If it can't convert it within 2 minutes CPU time, it kills it and ends up fucky.
00:57:39 <elliott> Gregor: Are the older ones on the old Masterpieces site or something?
00:57:47 <elliott> Ooh, I wanna hear the broken!
00:57:49 <Gregor> elliott: If you did it before I split Algorhythms from Masterpiece--- yeah
00:57:54 <Gregor> elliott: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/
00:57:58 <GreaseMonkey> uh, for algorhythms, i have deprecation warnings all over my midi
00:58:21 <elliott> HOW CAN MIDI GET DEPRECATED
00:59:02 <elliott> Gregor: Deprecated: Function split() is deprecated in
00:59:09 <elliott> Gregor: Can you just... replace that :P
00:59:23 <elliott> "This function has been DEPRECATED as of PHP 5.3.0. Relying on this feature is highly discouraged.
00:59:30 <elliott> Gregor: Use preg_split apparently.
00:59:54 <quintopia> a free beer to anyone who can name this tune: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/19391356931184/19391356931184.ogg
01:00:14 <elliott> Gregor: lib/midi.php to be exact
01:02:15 -!- pumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
01:02:35 <Gregor> I recognize that SO HARD ...
01:02:55 <Gregor> I only listened to the first 9 seconds X_X
01:03:28 <Gregor> quintopia: Where's my beer.
01:03:28 <Sgeo> Gregor, are you a character in Superosity?
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01:03:51 <Gregor> Sgeo: I'm a character in SuperTuring.
01:03:52 <quintopia> gregor: i'll buy it next time we meet in person, wherever that shall be
01:04:15 <Gregor> elliott: Oh sorry, got distracted, uploading now :P
01:04:24 <elliott> Gregor: lol@not using vi on the server
01:04:43 <Gregor> I have hg repos that push themselves into /var/www :P
01:05:07 <elliott> Gregor: Mr. Fancy "Scared of Work" Pants
01:07:16 <quintopia> free beer to anyone besides Gregor who can name this one: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/19620121792712/19620121792712.ogg
01:08:04 <elliott> ha ha now you have to buy a 15 year old beer
01:08:06 <Gregor> Which piano is this? SONiVOX?
01:08:25 <elliott> I don't like the sound of this rendition much :P
01:08:34 <elliott> Whatever you made the real one with is better.
01:08:53 <pikhq> Cause "Opus 13" is probably a pretty common name.
01:09:08 <Gregor> pikhq: That's what I named my daughter.
01:09:09 <pikhq> Say, anyone who uses opus numbers and has had at least 13 of them. Or sucks at counting. :P
01:09:13 <Gregor> quintopia: Movement 2 is Finale
01:09:14 <elliott> quintopia: Movement 2 is Finale in Three.
01:09:27 <elliott> It's "in Three" because Gregor doesn't understand counting.
01:09:38 <elliott> Gregor: STATUS_DONE but the ogg seems "invalid". I think what happened is it got /queued/ for two minutes, but not actually processed.
01:11:01 <elliott> Gregor: D: It's consistently doing it.
01:11:04 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/198362294728300/
01:11:45 <Ilari> Haha... Lagerholm predicting April (that was back in November, before the surprise AFRINIC and RIPE allocations)...
01:11:50 <elliott> Gregor: It has like 70 channels :P
01:12:04 <elliott> But Opus 14 (aka SuperTuring) is better.
01:12:30 <elliott> Srsly Gregor, you must rename SuperTuring to Opus 14 :P
01:12:44 <Gregor> Good thing I can write a better work in two hours than three months :P
01:12:53 <elliott> Gregor: Yes, definitely, you MUST rename it.
01:12:55 <elliott> Ask pikhq, he will concur.
01:13:00 <elliott> And he is the arbitrator of truth.
01:13:13 <Gregor> pikhq: Congrats, you're the arbitrator of truth.
01:13:15 <quintopia> gregor: cf. "top 40 formula nailed in 8 hours"
01:13:35 <elliott> quintopia: Is that that video thing? If so, I actually liked the result :P
01:13:37 <elliott> Proof that I have no taste.
01:14:05 <elliott> Gregor: Yah, it did the broken ogg thing on my third try too.
01:14:10 <elliott> I conclude that you need to make it less pitiful.
01:14:30 <elliott> Gregor: Or, what happens if sonivox is missing an instrument?
01:14:35 <elliott> Maybe it's just too hardcore.
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01:15:19 <Gregor> elliott: I'm not sure. If it's missing /every/ instrument, it would cause that.
01:15:27 <elliott> Gregor: I very much doubt that :P
01:15:42 <Gregor> It's a full GM set ...
01:15:54 <elliott> That is misses all, I mean.
01:15:59 <elliott> Gregor: But bear in mind that this thing has like 11 tracks :P
01:16:25 <Gregor> Mmmmm, it might not work for >16 tracks.
01:18:47 <elliott> Gregor: Is it really that bad?
01:19:10 <Gregor> Yet the sound it produces is so beautiful.
01:19:17 <elliott> So anyway, how do I play a midi on Linux the plain boring way.
01:19:57 <elliott> Gregor: The MIDI in question is Onerous Cake-Eating Festival Disallowment Barricade, BTW.
01:20:06 <elliott> Which will ONLY BE BETTER with that fancy soundfont.
01:20:09 <Gregor> FluidSynth only turns to hell once you start trying to generate a .wav
01:20:32 <elliott> Gregor: But it doesn't work for >16 channels :P
01:21:12 <elliott> Timidity works ... and reminds me that this track only sounded great with Apple's MIDI sounds.
01:21:29 <elliott> Gregor: Can you believe this stuff is from 2009?
01:21:42 <quintopia> apple's midi sucks, but not as bad as everyone else's. why?
01:22:10 <Gregor> Yeah, they actually put money into it is all. They bought the license to a decent soundfont.
01:22:18 <elliott> --2011-01-25 01:31:48-- http://filebin.ca/wojhum/OnerousCake-EatingFestivalDisallowmentBarricade.mp3
01:22:19 <elliott> Resolving filebin.ca... 208.68.18.109
01:22:19 <elliott> Connecting to filebin.ca|208.68.18.109|:80... connected.
01:22:19 <elliott> HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
01:22:19 <elliott> C'mon... please exist, file...
01:23:02 <elliott> http://filebin.ca/bmdpxh/RidiculouslyAbsentToccata.mp3 too
01:24:08 <elliott> Gregor: THE FILES AREN'T LOADING PANIC
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01:26:41 <Gregor> elliott: A decent free GM soundfont.
01:26:48 <elliott> Gregor: But not as good as sonivox; right :P
01:26:52 <elliott> Is gregors actually any good for random midi files?
01:27:05 <Gregor> elliott: For random MIDI files, it's Chorium.
01:27:19 <elliott> fluidsynth: warning: Preset "Tremolo Strings": Some invalid generators were discarded
01:27:19 <elliott> fluidsynth: warning: Preset "Perc Organ": Some invalid generators were discarded
01:27:19 <elliott> fluidsynth: warning: Preset "SciFi": Some invalid generators were discarded
01:27:19 <elliott> fluidsynth: warning: Instrument "Reverse Cymbal": Some invalid generators were discarded
01:27:19 <elliott> fluidsynth: warning: Instrument "Nylon Guitar ": Some invalid generators were discarded
01:27:30 <elliott> Gregor: Didn't you put the MI1 theme through Sonivox?
01:28:09 <Gregor> elliott: Yes, fluidsynth likes to complain :P
01:28:18 <elliott> <elliott> Gregor: Didn't you put the MI1 theme through Sonivox?
01:28:18 <elliott> <elliott> Or was that Chorium?
01:28:41 <Gregor> Apparently we're lagged to hell, yes :P
01:28:58 <Gregor> Anyway, no, I never put the MI1 theme through anything.
01:28:59 <elliott> <elliott> <elliott> Gregor: Didn't you put the MI1 theme through Sonivox?
01:28:59 <elliott> <elliott> <elliott> Or was that Chorium?
01:29:18 <Gregor> Oh, I thought you meant something else :P
01:29:39 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/20221630415266/20221630415266.ogg This might just be amazing.
01:30:05 <elliott> Perfect. Absolutely perfect.
01:31:20 <Gregor> It's pretty alright :P
01:31:43 <elliott> Gregor: I think this is better than the MT-32 version of the same, but tbh MI2 wasn't so good on MT-32, compared to Adlib :P
01:32:34 <elliott> The campfire bit at the end is great too.
01:33:30 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:33:47 <elliott> Now I MUST get the Largo LeGrande theme going.
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01:36:07 <elliott> The stabbing largo theme will HAVE TO DO
01:37:12 <elliott> Gregor: This is win, btw :P
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01:40:34 <elliott> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAGEZnFVTos REAL-TIME PATH TRACING
01:41:17 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/203421205018158/203421205018158.ogg YESSSSSSSSS
01:41:31 <elliott> Gregor: This one did not turn out so well: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/204491201820231/204491201820231.ogg :(
01:41:34 <elliott> But it has multiple parts.
01:41:39 <elliott> So I'm hangin' on to see if it gets better.
01:41:50 <elliott> Gregor: The volumes are just a bit out of whack I think.
01:41:54 <elliott> Compared to "standard" MIDI.
01:42:03 <Gregor> elliott: Yeah, that's an understatement.
01:42:45 <elliott> Yeah this has not turned out well at all :(
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01:44:01 <elliott> Gregor: What is that YESS one, I'm gonna listen in a second.
01:44:47 <Gregor> elliott: It's the ending to SMB2.
01:45:07 <elliott> Gregor: IT'S GREAT BEING IN THE 90S
01:47:24 <elliott> Gregor: Are you sure this is legal :P
01:47:28 <elliott> fluidsynth: warning: Failed to pin the sample data to RAM; swapping is possible.
01:47:35 <Gregor> elliott: Legal enough :)
01:47:36 <elliott> Gregor: Wow, chorium is so much faster.
01:47:44 <Gregor> elliott: Chorium is 1/10th the size.
01:47:47 <elliott> Copyright (C) 2000-2009 Peter Hanappe and others.
01:47:47 <elliott> Distributed under the LGPL license.
01:47:47 <elliott> SoundFont(R) is a registered trademark of E-mu Systems, Inc.
01:47:47 <elliott> fluid_ostream_printf: buffer overflowfluid_ostream_printf: buffer overflowRendering audio to file '/tmp/206163043921772.wav'..
01:47:52 <elliott> Gregor: That's why Onerous doesn't work.
01:47:55 <elliott> Because FluidSynth is a piece of shit.
01:47:59 <Gregor> Doesn't look broken to me ...
01:48:16 <elliott> Gregor: Onerous, not chorium.
01:48:16 <Gregor> The "buffer overflow" is always output X_X
01:48:26 <elliott> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/206163043921772/ <-- does this look non-broken to you?
01:48:38 <Gregor> Nonono, I'm sure it's broken.
01:48:41 <Sgeo> elliott, two O'Brien Must Suffer episodes in the same season?
01:48:43 <Gregor> But the "buffer overflow" is unrelated.
01:48:58 <elliott> Gregor: Can you pass --handle-more-channels-please.
01:49:47 <elliott> "They should make a heist film where a group of thieves infiltrate the facility and slightly change the mass of the original prototype kilogram as well as its sister copies, thereby redefining the kilogram. Months later, chaos ensues as cars start crashing, planes fall from the sky, the stock market plummets, and overly self conscious women all over the world go crazy over their weight, thus fulfilling the 2012 doomsday prophecy"
01:49:51 <elliott> THIS WOULD BE THE BEST FILM EVER.
01:50:21 <quintopia> elliott: you should write your own shell that parses anomalous flags into english and rewrites and recompiles programs to make those flags work
01:50:27 <Gregor> With Chorium first plzkthx
01:50:33 <elliott> quintopia: You should write it for me.
01:50:44 <Gregor> Which apparently does ... something.
01:51:12 <elliott> $ sh --that-fixes-programs-based-on-unknown-flags
01:51:42 <Gregor> elliott: Wait to see whether it works first :P
01:51:53 <elliott> Gregor: I'm doing it with chlorine now.
01:52:11 <quintopia> elliott: now you just have to call it from within itself so that it creates itself so that it exists so that you can call it from within itself. can do?
01:52:39 <Gregor> This soundfont seriously fucking rocks.
01:52:45 <Gregor> And I'm glad that this is probably legal maybe.
01:52:58 <elliott> Gregor: I dunno... I think it's legal to render any MIDI someone gives you because YOU'RE doing it.
01:53:12 <elliott> Gregor: But I think that legally, you're essentially offering access to the copyrighted material to anyone, which isn't allowed :P
01:53:14 <Gregor> Yeah, I haven't given them the soundfont.
01:53:31 <Gregor> elliott: But I'm not, you couldn't reproduce the soundfont with this service.
01:53:36 <elliott> Gregor: It's kinda like "Yeah, I'll follow these instructions in Photoshop for you" vs. "OK, here's a world-accessible VNC to Photoshop."
01:53:47 <elliott> You can't produce photoshop.exe on disk with the latter, but it sure as hell isn't legal-sounding.
01:53:52 <elliott> "For personal use only" and whatnot.
01:53:58 <Gregor> elliott: Except that there ARE companies that offer VNC(ish) to programs, and rent it out.
01:53:58 <elliott> Not that anyone gives a shit, of course :P
01:54:16 <Gregor> Also, SONiVOX is too cool to actually specify licensing terms.
01:54:16 <elliott> Gregor: Nope, same result.
01:54:24 <Gregor> elliott: Then 'snot gonna work.
01:54:45 <Gregor> elliott: -K actually just sets the max channels :P
01:54:53 <elliott> Gregor: MAYBE IT NEEDS MORE HEADROOM
01:55:03 <Gregor> elliott: Maybe your mom needs more headroom.
01:55:14 <elliott> I thought you were above your mom jokes.
01:55:41 <elliott> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/20681251887557/20681251887557.ogg ;; this is pretty good
01:55:47 <Gregor> ... I make "your mom" jokes on an almost-constant basis.
01:55:59 * pikhq really wonders if the "Logic" course (offered in the philosophy department) will end up actually being worthwhile...
01:56:04 <pikhq> Or if it ends up just being an easy A.
01:56:16 <Gregor> These FLACs are fucking huge ... maybe I should just not generate the FLAC.
01:56:21 <Gregor> Or maybe I should make it optional.
01:56:32 <elliott> fcont = fcont[fcont.find('\n')+1:]
01:56:45 <elliott> Gregor: Yeah, but you used to be all about YOUR FACE, not YOUR MOM.
01:56:54 <elliott> Gregor: Yeah well, your mom, she bangs.
01:57:04 <elliott> Gregor: Also, just disable the FLAC ... if someone wants it they can ask you to do it manually :P
01:57:10 <elliott> Gregor: Or at least do the oggs first.
01:58:20 <elliott> return u"<pre>%s</pre>" % node.content
01:58:26 <elliott> Gregor: You forgot to preformat the result of the program.
01:59:01 <Gregor> elliott: I intentionally didn't.
01:59:09 <elliott> Gregor: Seems a bit weird :P
01:59:18 <elliott> Also, does Hackiki whitelist all the HTML or whatever at a high level?
01:59:35 <elliott> Gregor: <script>evil</script> ... just sayin'
01:59:38 <Gregor> That's a goal I gave up on on Hackiki day 1.
02:00:11 <elliott> Gregor: So, er, basically, "don't browse a popular Hackiki if I value my browser" :P
02:00:26 <elliott> There are plenty of APIs that make it easy to sanitise HTML, but whatever.
02:00:37 <elliott> I think that does HTML, but whatever.
02:00:57 <Gregor> Sanitizing JS is a joke, and remember, all the wiki software is IN THE WIKI, so if you want it to have any features at all, you have to let through arbitrary HTML+JS
02:01:07 <elliott> Gregor: HTML sure, JS I don't really see why.
02:01:28 <Gregor> For wikis that have JavaScript ...
02:01:44 <elliott> Gregor: What kind of wiki uses JS to show a page?
02:01:53 <Gregor> Even wikipedia has JS on its main page now.
02:02:03 <Gregor> Err, article view page that is.
02:02:13 <elliott> Gregor: Sure, but it's all trivial shit and it works ~the same without it.
02:02:19 <elliott> Like TOC collapsing and stuff.
02:02:41 <Gregor> WhyTF are you looking at Hackiki anyway?
02:02:49 <pikhq> elliott: Allowing JS on Hackiki is no worse than allowing JS on the web in general.
02:03:11 <elliott> Gregor: Perverse curiosity, plus the nagging feeling that there's a good idea trying to escape :P
02:03:17 <pikhq> elliott: Except that it's *slightly* easier for someone to be an asshat on a wiki.
02:03:28 <elliott> pikhq: Yeah, but at least a random webpage doesn't _inspire_ morons to go "Hey, I can put script tags in here!".
02:03:39 <pikhq> elliott: Yes, yes it does.
02:03:55 <elliott> pikhq: No ... no it doesn't. "Run any program!" -> Edit this -> HTML -> "IMA PUT <SCRIPT> IN"
02:04:02 <elliott> That is a problem rather unique to Hackiki :P
02:04:43 <pikhq> elliott: "Run any program!" → edit this → perl → "Imma fork while fork!"
02:05:01 <elliott> pikhq: I don't see the connection. That Perl program doesn't run when I click a link.
02:05:17 <pikhq> elliott: It runs *on the server*, though.
02:05:20 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/21156213132983/21156213132983.ogg YESSSSSSSSSSS
02:05:57 <Gregor> elliott: ... U SUCK AT RPG
02:06:05 <Gregor> elliott: It's the chocobo theme!
02:06:25 <pikhq> Gregor: That is a very odd rendition of "x de Chocobo".
02:06:50 <Gregor> pikhq: It's "Samba de Chocobo", it was the first result for "chocobo" on vgmusic.com under SNES->F :P
02:07:13 <pikhq> Ah, right, my least favorite rendition of the Chocobo theme.
02:07:14 <Gregor> pikhq: And that's more or less what it sounds like in-game, only more awesome.
02:07:29 <pikhq> ... No, wait, FFXIII.
02:07:45 <elliott> http://littleitaly.fortunecity.com/vatican/791/midi.htm <3
02:08:01 <elliott> "Is that applause or is that a laugh track?"
02:08:13 <elliott> KashmirLed ZeppelinWe dare you to listen to all 9 minutes!
02:09:54 * pikhq is fairly partial to Swing de Chocobo. Or "tiȳokohònotêma", in its NES glory...
02:10:33 <elliott> Gregor: Convince me not to feed Hit Me Baby One More Time, the MIDI rendition, into this.
02:10:43 <elliott> Wait. What happens with non-piano ones on the steinway one?
02:10:54 <Gregor> pikhq: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/21262479113464/21262479113464.ogg
02:11:31 <pikhq> Gregor: Which one is *that*‽
02:11:49 <Gregor> It claims to be "Baroque de Chocobo" ... the only thing Baroque about it though is that it sucks.
02:12:08 <pikhq> Definitely not Uematsu's work.
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02:13:39 <Gregor> elliott: So have you put Hit Me Baby One More Time through webmidi yet? :P
02:13:56 <elliott> Gregor: You have not convinced me not to yet, so I WILL
02:14:09 <elliott> <elliott> Wait. What happens with non-piano ones on the steinway one?
02:14:34 <quintopia> i should put the cheers theme in the steinway on
02:14:43 <Gregor> elliott: They become pianos.
02:15:23 <elliott> Prepare for Hit Me Baby One More Piano
02:15:23 <Gregor> elliott: Well don't do THAT to Hit Me Baby :P
02:15:46 <quintopia> here tis: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/213811375219097/213811375219097.ogg
02:15:49 <elliott> Gregor: Remember that that site is for bad MIDIs of even GOOD songs
02:15:54 <elliott> So this is going to be the worst of the worst :P
02:16:18 <Gregor> quintopia: It's the best.
02:16:36 <Gregor> quintopia: Also, you are obsessed with TV :P
02:16:50 <Gregor> quintopia: And this MIDI sucks :P
02:17:02 <Gregor> It's the sheet music, with no dynamics. Yay.
02:17:04 <quintopia> Gregor: just shit i had randomly lying around
02:18:01 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/214051887116122/214051887116122.ogg
02:18:20 <Gregor> elliott: I'm afraid D-8
02:18:41 <quintopia> most of my tracked files are in .it or .xm
02:19:00 <quintopia> i have all the songs from jazz jackrabbit 2 in .s3m
02:19:13 <elliott> Gregor: I have never heard anything worse :P
02:20:19 <Gregor> elliott: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/21447310216470/21447310216470.ogg Rendered in real MIDI, I've actually heard much worse. It's pretty bad though :P
02:20:32 <elliott> ARE YOU LISTENING TO THE PIANO ONE
02:20:48 <Gregor> I listened to a bit of it :P
02:21:43 <Gregor> On the piano I love the little "plucks" of the piano in the background :P
02:22:41 <elliott> Gregor: I want to hear this played on real pianos.
02:24:54 <elliott> quintopia: the piano-only one?
02:25:46 <quintopia> i want to hear the conlon nancarrow version
02:26:24 <Gregor> I can't think of any more awesome video game music :P
02:27:18 <elliott> Gregor: Think it'll render an 8 minute masterpiece in the time allotted?
02:27:22 <elliott> If not, please specialcase job 21595134129605.
02:27:36 <Gregor> So long as it's <=16 tracks, probably :P
02:28:22 <pikhq> Gregor: "Final Fantasy".
02:28:37 <elliott> That will be Gregor's final midi fantasy HURHURHURHURHURHR
02:28:40 <Gregor> pikhq: MORE SPECIFIC PLZ
02:28:49 <pikhq> Gregor: That's the name of it.
02:28:58 <pikhq> Gregor: "Final Fantasy", by Nobuo Uematsu.
02:29:17 <elliott> He means the main title Gregor
02:29:20 <elliott> pikhq is just a PRETENTIOUS FAG
02:29:30 <pikhq> Though in FFI it was known as "Prologue".
02:31:34 <elliott> Gregor: I only had ten tracks and it gave up.
02:31:41 <elliott> Also no overflow warning :P
02:31:48 <Gregor> elliott: YOUR MOM GAVE UP
02:32:10 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/21595134129605/21595134129605.mid I think we can both agree that this needs to be rendered with SONiVOX.
02:33:50 <Gregor> Checking why it failed ...
02:34:00 <elliott> See, you realise how amazing it is.
02:34:57 <Gregor> pikhq: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/21797299108804/21797299108804.ogg JUST FOR YOU
02:35:21 <pikhq> Gregor: That's Prelude.
02:35:23 <Gregor> The high bits on the harp are REALLY HARSH with the harp alone >_>
02:35:33 <pikhq> Gregor: Not "Final Fantasy".
02:35:35 <Gregor> lawl, I totes forgot what I was doing :P
02:36:16 <elliott> Gregor: Yeah highs kill in sonivox.
02:36:29 <Gregor> elliott: It's still trying to render ... maybe?
02:36:38 <elliott> Gregor: Oh, you restarted it?
02:36:42 <elliott> It was STATUS_DONE before.
02:36:47 <Gregor> elliott: Yeah, I'm watching the output here.
02:37:08 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaning_toothpick_syndrome X-D
02:37:34 <Sgeo> elliott, "The Jem'Hadar"
02:37:36 <Gregor> pikhq: Which Final Fantasy should I try to get Prologue from? :P
02:38:06 <Gregor> elliott: Yup, straight up time limit. And I've doubled the time limit twice, so screw you :P
02:38:19 <elliott> Gregor: Can't you just run this one specially?
02:38:21 * quintopia watches piano britney spears go viral
02:38:24 <elliott> Gregor: It will really be amazing :P
02:38:27 <pikhq> Gregor: It's pretty much the same in all the games it's been in.
02:38:38 <elliott> Gregor: I'm listening to it locally and it's just the best.
02:39:37 <pikhq> And yes, I *do* have all the Final Fantasy soundtracks, and so have confirmed that. :P
02:41:27 <Gregor> elliott: Fine, I'm doing it on MY OWN MACHINE.
02:41:45 <elliott> Gregor: With SONiVOX, mind you, not that LOW-CLASS CLAPTRAP.
02:42:56 <quintopia> with regard to piano britney spears: < thegrumples> @quintopia why is this playing on my computer. why has this not always been playing on my computer
02:43:22 <Gregor> quintopia: Y'know that URL will disappear in two days :P
02:43:31 <elliott> quintopia: Excuse me, you have CREDITED ME, RIGHT?
02:43:41 <quintopia> elliott: no one has asked me to yet
02:43:54 <elliott> AND REHOST IT SOMEWHERE PERMANENT
02:44:14 <elliott> How do I figure out who's responded to that twat, I can't figure it out :P
02:44:31 <elliott> http://twitter.com/#search?q=%40quintopia
02:44:45 <elliott> IT'S MISSING THAT ONE YOU QUOTED
02:45:01 <Gregor> pikhq: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/21878737724151/21878737724151.ogg
02:45:14 <elliott> quintopia: I have no http server right now :P
02:45:20 <quintopia> GREGOR: CAN YOU JUST MAKE IT SO THAT ONE NEVER DELETES KTHX
02:45:25 <elliott> BUT SRSLY JUST CREDIT ME FOR HAVING THE *INSPIRATION*
02:45:44 <Gregor> quintopia: MIRROR IT URSELF ... AND CREDIT ELLIOTT FOR RUINING EARTH
02:46:06 <elliott> Gregor: Just add an if to the purger :P
02:46:15 <quintopia> but gregor! i already linked your copy! it is too late! it is already viral! you must preserve the madness!
02:46:20 <Gregor> elliott: I would just have to remove the at job, but still :P
02:46:33 <elliott> Gregor: It's a cultural ... icon? Item.
02:46:58 <elliott> It just sounds so... emotiona
02:47:01 <pikhq> Gregor: That comes out pretty lame in MIDI.
02:47:04 <elliott> sushimustwrite @ana_marai @quintopia Because it's on piano! Piano makes everything better.
02:47:05 <pikhq> Gregor: And is that cowbell?
02:47:21 <elliott> Gregor: Rendered my 8-minute masterpiece locally yet? :P
02:48:14 <quintopia> gregor: preserved the cultural icon for posterity yet?
02:48:30 <elliott> <elliott> Gregor: Rendered my 8-minute masterpiece locally yet? :P
02:48:32 <elliott> Also, seriously, please do :(
02:48:38 <elliott> quintopia: *MY cultural icon
02:50:12 <Gregor> elliott: This ogg is enormous :P
02:54:04 <Gregor> elliott: Is your mom uploaded yet?
02:54:48 <Gregor> elliott: It's stalling out every three seconds while uploading :P
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02:57:44 <elliott> Gregor: UPLOADED YERTHSJDLGKFMC
02:58:33 <elliott> quintopia: you have to tweet this one too
03:00:28 <quintopia> gregor: preserve the cultural icon or the beer deal is off >:(
03:00:44 <Gregor> quintopia: I don't drink :P
03:01:10 <elliott> quintopia: *the Moxie deal
03:02:05 <Gregor> quintopia: Make it a Moxie and I'll preserve it :P
03:02:27 <Gregor> What was the gen #? :P
03:02:55 <quintopia> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/214051887116122/214051887116122.ogg
03:02:59 <elliott> Gregor: GOGOGO AND ALSO FINISH THE UPLOAD
03:03:21 <Gregor> quintopia: WTF, surely you jest.
03:03:31 <elliott> Hmm, Moxie is probably horrible, since Gregor can't smell.
03:03:37 <elliott> It probably smells of pain.
03:04:13 <elliott> [[Through extensive advertising, the neologism "moxie" has entered popular American usage with the meaning "courage, daring, and energy,"[8][9] as in "This guy's got moxie!"]]
03:04:16 <elliott> ..not the other way around?
03:05:20 <elliott> Presevred, but UPLOADEDE?DE{?
03:05:34 <Gregor> elliott: It's at 100%, except not 8-D
03:05:43 <elliott> I hope it sounds like rape.
03:05:45 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/22160750729636/22160750729636.ogg Listen to this while you wait.
03:06:07 <elliott> Is that Chrono Trigger... I think so ... I have noooo idea :P
03:06:21 <Gregor> Other than the saxophone (?), that sounds friggin' awesome.
03:06:36 <Gregor> And the sax is just too quiet.
03:06:48 <elliott> It sounds that weird in the game too doesn't it.
03:08:42 * elliott tries to decipher http://www.1010.co.uk/org/ again
03:08:52 <elliott> I swear there's something cool in here but it's buried in zany.
03:10:38 <elliott> im going to kill gregor of i dont get my ear pina
03:10:39 <Gregor> elliott: http://codu.org/tmp/21595134129605.ogg
03:10:55 <elliott> Gregor: Oh wow... it's deliciously awful.
03:11:02 <elliott> quintopia: Tweet this now: "more on the same theme: http://codu.org/tmp/21595134129605.ogg"
03:11:31 <elliott> Anticipate "@quintopia IT SOUNDS ALL WEIRD WHAT'S THE CORRECT LINK"
03:11:39 <elliott> quintopia: YOU ARE FOR THE FEW SECONDS IT TAKES TO COPY-PASTE THAT
03:11:48 <elliott> Gregor: Oh wow, it is so glorious ...
03:12:00 <quintopia> this chrono trigger thing is awesome still
03:12:48 <elliott> TO ALL FINNS: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/f87p6/what_is_your_most_controversial_opinion/c1e0u3w?context=2
03:13:42 <elliott> quintopia: tweet it ggod damn
03:14:12 <quintopia> it sounds like HPSCHD but with more instruments
03:15:08 <quintopia> it really isn't all that bad if you're used to this kind of thing :P
03:15:16 <quintopia> and i am used to this kind of thing :P
03:15:39 <elliott> i want to get my viral std all around the interwebs
03:15:53 <quintopia> everyone will just go wtf and forget about it
03:16:08 <quintopia> a really weird one like balley mechanique
03:16:33 * elliott blinks... I think I just discovered cpressey
03:16:34 <quintopia> was this just a bunch of keymashing?
03:16:39 <elliott> but probably not but ... what
03:16:47 * Gregor goes back to listening to SuperTuring on loop :P
03:16:49 <elliott> quintopia: in fact all the tracks have the same general structure
03:17:48 <elliott> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=309&cpage=1#comment-1382 <-- url links to a catseye language
03:17:52 <elliott> but it might just be a random url
03:18:07 <quintopia> you are george antheil crossed with john cage
03:18:12 <quintopia> see http://www.zappinternet.com/video/WaDtPiyPep/Fernand-Leger-Ballet-mecanique-1924
03:18:19 <elliott> quintopia: i hope you listen to all of this
03:18:45 <quintopia> elliott: only if you listen to something of mine :D
03:18:54 <elliott> quintopia: the ending is the best part of mine btw
03:19:15 <elliott> <quintopia> see http://www.zappinternet.com/video/WaDtPiyPep/Fernand-Leger-Ballet-mecanique-1924 <-- sry, no flash, got a youtube? :p
03:19:22 <elliott> (for sake of cpu/battery life on this)
03:19:46 <quintopia> just search for "ballet mecanique"
03:20:17 <quintopia> that was just the only complete one. the youtube ones are cut short.
03:20:51 <elliott> quintopia: full disclosure, i did get a computer to do the tedious parts of writing it for me
03:21:07 <elliott> so that's as valid as using any music composition software vs. writing a midi by hand
03:22:18 <quintopia> it did get more interesting towards the end though
03:22:46 <elliott> Also the basic algorithm is actually Gregor's, but I fed it the parameters I wanted.
03:23:08 <Gregor> Only the ipv4 part of it.
03:23:32 <elliott> WHAT I'M SAYING IS I did it with http://codu.org/algorhythms/
03:32:49 <quintopia> elliott: http://www.filedropper.com/binaccapella1 i listened to yours, so you must listen to mine, mwahahaha
03:36:44 <Gregor> Hey guys. WHY ARE YOU NOT LISTENING TO SUPERTURING ON LOOP
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03:51:10 <quintopia> gregor: because i have just discovered a vps that will give me 1024MB of RAM and 2 IP addresses for $20/mo (which is what I'm paying now for 256MB of RAM D:)
03:52:20 <Gregor> Mind you, that's what I get except for the 2 IPs part :P
03:52:24 <Gregor> And I have no need for 2 IPs
03:53:07 <quintopia> I AM OUTRAGED AT THE OVERPAYING I HAVE BEEN DOING AND SO CANNOT ENJOY SUPERTURING
03:55:19 <quintopia> (another advantage: the server is in the city i live)
03:55:28 <quintopia> (so i can personally bitchslap them if they fuck me)
03:55:41 <Gregor> ... wtf is "burst memory" and "guaranteed memory"
03:55:58 <quintopia> you don't know much about vms do you?
03:56:17 <quintopia> guaranteed memory means it's held in reserve for you. no one can have it
03:56:29 <quintopia> burst memory means you can steal that memory if no one else is using it
03:56:44 <Gregor> quintopia: "Pinned". Got it. So 1024 is what the VM sees, which would also be good to know.
03:57:08 <Gregor> Ohwait, I see, yes, 2 IPs.
03:57:37 <Gregor> Hm, that's kinda compelling ...
03:59:54 <quintopia> downside: "IRC access is forbidden"
04:00:17 <quintopia> which they won't notice for months, of course
04:00:34 <quintopia> if they bother to check and find you doing it, they'll drop you
04:00:49 <Gregor> ... prgmr's policy is "do what you want"
04:04:05 <pikhq> Gregor: Bet you can't wait for IPv6 to be ubiquitous.
04:04:25 <pikhq> Gregor: Instead of a single IP, you get a single /64. :P
04:04:36 <Gregor> vhosts are for pussies.
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04:11:51 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/23564130829196/23564130829196.ogg Hayden ala SONiVOX
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04:14:09 <quintopia> prgmr looks cool, in that the SLA comps you even if you don't complain...but you get less disk space, and they are out of space atm anyway :P
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04:47:25 <Gregor> quintopia: I've actually been autocompensated a couple times too.
04:53:56 <pikhq> tan^3(x)sec^4(x). Anyone want to tell me what I'm too stupid to see?
04:54:25 <pikhq> Sorry. Integral thereof.
04:54:29 <pikhq> Should have specified.
04:55:06 <pikhq> I managed to get a nonsensical answer doing that.
04:55:31 <pikhq> Though I bet I did just do something stupid there...
04:55:39 <quintopia> there's a way you can pull constants out of there too...
04:56:00 <pikhq> I'm certainly not seeing any "simple" u substitutions that work.
04:56:32 <pikhq> This is my diff eq professor's idea of a "review" of calculus.
04:57:06 <coppro> wait, fractions of trig functions
04:57:09 <coppro> there's a trick to this
04:58:10 <pikhq> Not *too* big of a deal if I don't figure this out right away, though. This is due a week from now. :P
05:17:24 <Sgeo> Why does Chrome hate reddit so much?
05:17:35 <Sgeo> I'm seriously starting to think that Firefox may be less hateful
05:19:04 <Gregor> Why are you offending The Google?
05:19:10 <Gregor> Do you want to bring down The Google's wrath?
05:39:08 <Ilari> Ah, this article has (normal) IANA request serving time: about 2 business days.
05:43:26 <pikhq> http://www.snyderstreasures.com/eBay/Images/2009/Terry/ColoredHouse-1.jpg Hitler really should have stuck with the art thing.
05:44:32 <Gregor> pikhq: The guy third from the right is a JEW.
05:45:15 <coppro> that's actually quite a nice piece
05:45:26 <quintopia> i'm not sure pikhq. as bad as the holocaust was, imagine if he had continued to subject the world to his awful version of art!
05:46:05 <pikhq> He was rejected by the art school for not being sufficiently "modern" in his art style...
05:46:16 <pikhq> Yes, stupid art snobbery brought us the death of millions.
05:46:19 <pikhq> Bravo, art world. Bravo.
05:49:40 <pikhq> And he probably wouldn't have even become antisemetic, were he accepted.
05:50:48 <Gregor> Amid rampant suspicion, what to make of Master Sgt. Paul Hitler? That was the name of an Army military police officer who, beginning in the spring of 1942, made his office in the old Trenton High School on Hamilton Avenue. But he had no relation to Adolf Hitler, he explained to curious interviewers; he was, in fact, Brooklyn-born and Jewish.
05:50:48 <Gregor> "I'm not changing my name," Sgt. Hitler told Time magazine. "Let the other fellow change his."
05:52:28 <Gregor> I keep forgetting that there was a time when "Hitler" wasn't synonymous with "evil"
05:52:46 <pikhq> Likewise with the toothbrush mustache.
05:54:08 <pikhq> God... The man managed to ruin an entire facial hair style.
05:54:57 <pikhq> Where they are, in fact, a quite common indicator of hierarchy.
05:54:58 <Gregor> You can suffix nearly any sentence about how people behave with "except in Japan"
05:55:29 <Sgeo> It kind of bothers me to see Suzumiya Haruhi with that armband
05:55:39 <pikhq> Sgeo: You get used to it pretty quick...
05:55:51 <pikhq> Sgeo: That sort of thing is *the norm* there.
05:57:41 <pikhq> Sgeo: What do you feel about swastikas?
05:58:32 <Sgeo> _Perpendicular lines_ can make me feel uneasy
05:58:51 <Sgeo> Well, hmm, more than two, I think
05:59:04 <Sgeo> Actually, I think I'm mostly over that
05:59:56 <pikhq> Then you'd probably be somewhat uneasy in learning Japanese or Chinese.
06:00:31 <Gregor> Yeah, that asshole stole the swastika too!
06:00:40 <pikhq> Meaning: swastika.
06:02:04 <Sgeo> This client isn't showing it properly
06:02:20 <pikhq> It's a Buddhist swastika.
06:02:20 <Sgeo> #redditdowntime is insane right now
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07:01:19 <Ilari> If the processing delay is 2 business days and request threshold is 1.5x/8, that would likely mean allocation tomorrow...
07:01:40 <Ilari> (no idea if that is correct...)
07:02:43 <pikhq> Maybe APNIC said "Fuck it, let someone else do it"?
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08:22:54 <fizzie> Literally "devil", but usually just a generic cuss word.
08:23:43 <augur> fizzie: you're finnish?! :o
08:24:08 <fizzie> Well, yes. Doesn't the fact that my nick starts with "fi" already indicate that?
08:24:38 <augur> no i thought you were just sparkling
08:25:12 <fizzie> http://theimaginaryworld.com/fizzie06.jpg
08:37:17 <augur> satw finland is so cute
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09:18:35 <fizzie> "bath whisk" says my dictionary. It's a bit of tree leaves and such, you whip yourself with it in a sauna.
09:18:53 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vihta
09:18:58 <augur> that makes no sense :D
09:18:59 <fizzie> There's two hanging on a wall there in that pic.
09:19:05 <fizzie> "It is used in traditional sauna-bathing for massage and stimulation of the skin."
09:19:20 <augur> http://satwcomic.com/sauna-time
09:20:29 <fizzie> Yes, that's pretty much how it works.
09:21:31 <augur> northern european boys <3
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11:53:09 <Ilari> Oh my... Talk of what if some other RIR grabs those two last blocks... That would be very bad, as APNIC would then have 3.09 normal pool after dust settles, and knowing the normal rate of APNIC, it is going to burn it in about 4 months even without run-on-the-bank.
11:53:45 <Ilari> Oops, not 3.09, about 2.96...
11:55:47 <Ilari> And regarding run-on-the-bank, some have already semi-jokingly stated that APNIC pool could deplete in April (or so...). Of course, that's trying to model panic.
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12:06:40 <Ilari> "We can't model panic. If you could tell me how to model panic behavior, I could give you an exact end date." -- Tony Hain (about IPv4 depletion).
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12:47:27 <ais523> wait, APNIC needs 3.09 blocks?
12:47:39 <ais523> it'd only get 3 even if it got 2 + final allocation
12:51:26 <Ilari> It would have ~3 blocks if someone else snatches the final 2x/8 allocation. But since that probably won't happen, it has 5x/8 at IANA depletion...
12:54:49 <ais523> I thought the last 5 blocks were going one to each RIR?
12:55:23 <Ilari> Yes, but the amount of address space APNIC will have after the 5x/8s go out happens to be about 5x/8...
12:55:34 <Ilari> (normally allocatable space, that is).
12:56:02 <Ilari> With 5x/8, at 6 weeks per /8 (approx rate of APNIC), it would be 30 weeks, or about 7 months...
12:57:20 <Ilari> After that, they still have 1x/8, but the allocations from that are rather restricted.
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12:58:09 <Ilari> Interestingly, the RIR policies to slow down full depletion of RIRs are probably not going to do good things to routing table size...
12:59:44 <ais523> yep, a routing table explosion's been predicted for a while
13:00:09 <ais523> and somehow I fear IPv6 won't do much to fix it, because it's unlikely to be allocated in a vaguely geographical way, which is what would be needed to keep the routing tables simple
13:01:35 <Ilari> Address bisection (that's popular with IPv6). Also apparently IANA does it too...
13:03:18 <Ilari> Allows allocating adjancent block when someone comes for more address space...
13:06:18 <Ilari> Also, transfer policies are also probably going to blow the amount of routes up.
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14:14:13 <ais523> hmm, most pointless Groklaw thread ever: http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20110124200708910&title=n%2Ft%20posts%20go%20here.&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=0#c897897
14:14:25 <ais523> it's not normally that much like reddit
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14:26:19 <ais523> heh, someone found a way to make the Sun/Oracle JVM version 1.6 segfault (using the matching JDK)
14:34:38 <Ilari> Heh... Reminds me of finding a way to make GCJ compile code (pure Java) that segfaults on runtime...
14:35:53 <Ilari> Involved somehow slipping uninitialized variable past initialization checks...
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14:36:52 <ais523> gcj is rather buggy IME
14:36:57 <ais523> and also pretty outdated
14:37:18 <Ilari> And it was also an old version...
14:41:15 <Ilari> Heh... And for C++, the magic words for hitting compiler bugs are "partial template specialization"...
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14:44:00 <ais523> hits program bugs quite easily too, IIRC
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15:14:58 <variable> Ilari, there was a funny bug in gcc which allowed one to declare a class inside a template decl.
15:17:33 <ais523> variable: did that do anything useful?
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15:27:38 <Gregor> I want to make a five-minute work that never resolves.
15:27:56 <Gregor> You would listen to it and just scream "Why why god why RESOLVE PLEASE OH GOD RESOLVE"
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15:36:07 <ais523> reddit are busy discussing the following program:
15:36:26 <ais523> ($=[$=[]][(__=!$+$)[_=-~-~-~$]+({}+$)[_/_]+($$=($_=!''+$)[_/_]+$_[+$])])()[__[_/_]+__[_+~$]+$_[_]+$$](_/_)
15:36:45 <ais523> I originally guessed the language incorrectly
15:37:14 <ais523> it isn't, although I tried to parse it as that originally
15:37:26 <ais523> you get a syntax error on the first ], if I mentally parsed it as Perl correctly
15:38:01 <Gregor> Also, "$" is an invalid variable name :P
15:38:21 <ais523> @= is a valid variable name, though
15:38:36 <ais523> and $=[1] would index it
15:38:50 <Gregor> Oh bloody effing wtf perl
15:38:52 <ais523> (I think there isn't actually a variable with that name, though, and it's in implementation namespace)
15:38:58 <ais523> (so you aren't allowed to use it)
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16:17:16 <elliott> Wow, it is impossible to find a Windows XP torrent that hasn't had shit added to it.
16:17:55 <ais523> don't you have a legitimate copy?
16:18:19 <elliott> ais523: yes, but I used my CD key 5 times, and Microsoft have decided that I need to call them on a telephone to use my legally-bought copy any more.
16:18:50 <ais523> elliott: I needed to do that even to use Windows once
16:18:55 <ais523> due to installing it somewhere without an internet connection
16:19:06 <ais523> it was all automated for that
16:19:13 <ais523> just typing long strings of numbers over the phone
16:19:18 <elliott> But yeah, I've decided that getting a cracked copy is less fuss, especially as it'll come with SP3 preinstalled.
16:19:21 <ais523> a little annoying as the phone was at the other end of a house
16:19:34 <elliott> It's not like they'd even sell me XP any more even if I wanted to buy it.
16:20:30 <ais523> and why would you want to buy something you already had a legit copy of?
16:20:57 <elliott> If you're not selling it and you want me to go through unreasonable hoops to make me use something I've already bought, I'm just going to crack it.
16:21:09 <ais523> cracking something is also unreasonable hoops IMO
16:21:37 <elliott> ais523: oh, certainly, but it doesn't involve a tedious phone conversation ... and the last time I did this it was easy to find a cracked Windows without any rubbish
16:21:49 <Gregor> ais523: HEY what's your opinion on the legality of http://codu.org/webmidi/
16:22:06 <ais523> Gregor: what does it do? if it's potentially illegal, I'm not sure if I want to click on it
16:22:30 <Gregor> ais523: It renders MIDIs to .ogg
16:22:35 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: MUAHAHAHAHA
16:22:51 <elliott> ais523: It renders MIDIs to .ogg using a paid-for sound pack thing.
16:22:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, but he already infuriates me with his attitudes!
16:22:56 <elliott> ais523: For free, arbitrary MIDIs
16:23:01 <ais523> it'd probably depend on the license of the sound pack
16:23:13 <ais523> and whether they thought of that when writing it
16:23:14 <Gregor> The license of the sound pack is "Here, have a soundfont"
16:23:36 <ais523> in that case, I think it'd come down to common law, which I don't know
16:23:40 <elliott> It would be awesome if the sound pack disallowed distribution of any part in any form ... then you couldn't distribute your own music rendered with it
16:23:46 <ais523> because they clearly intended you to be able to use the soundfont for something
16:24:02 <ais523> so there's an implied license there, but you probably need a huge court battle to work out exactly what it's implying
16:25:52 <elliott> Oh, this is cool: apparently corporate editions of Windows don't have the "YOU MUST ACTIVATE IN 30 DAYS" crap... so you can use a stock Microsoft ISO and as long as you have a valid CD key at install time (trivial to get), it won't bug you.
16:30:07 <ais523> elliott: the (I assume genuine) Windows installations at university decided to randomly fail WGA a few years ago
16:30:13 <ais523> and give little popup boxes about being illegal
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16:30:33 <elliott> Gregor: Microsoft's life would be a lot easier if they just didn't try and prevent piracy at all :P
16:30:58 <ais523> elliott: they need to prevent it enough that people who don't know what they're doing at all can't pirate it
16:31:08 <elliott> ais523: they can... by asking a techie friend
16:31:20 <ais523> in fact, IIRC the purpose of WGA is to prevent accidental institutional piracy
16:31:26 <ais523> where computer stores use illegal copies of Windows by mistake
16:31:33 <elliott> ais523: Piracy of Windows is probably the one constant in the universe, it's completely unstoppable and utterly rampant, and not only that but shit like WGA hurts good customers too.
16:31:44 <elliott> (By way of being FUCKING ANNOYING and occasionally deciding a legit machine isn't.)
16:32:03 <elliott> Not only would they get a lot of good karma for not fighting piracy, but they'd have a lot more time to fix bugs :P
16:32:04 <ais523> WGA is a bad idea, yes
16:32:19 <ais523> I'm not convinced that not fighting piracy would give them good karma, though
16:32:22 <elliott> Apple don't do it, although admittedly Apple solve problems like OSx86 via lawsuits.
16:32:32 <elliott> ais523: Certainly would from the pirates.
16:32:52 <elliott> ais523: And most Windows users don't care if people pirate Windows...
16:32:53 <ais523> elliott: hmm, they probably don't care about that, though
16:33:08 <elliott> ais523: Look at all the indie games without DRM and the praise they get for it.
16:33:42 <ais523> and even if they required a CD key, nobody would care
16:33:45 <elliott> ais523: Hell, look at every time a corporation has noticed piracy and not reacted in a hostile manner -- the internet explodes with gratitude.
16:34:01 <ais523> what sort of DRM does Minecraft have, anyway?
16:34:15 <elliott> ais523: if you don't authenticate with the MC servers on login, you can't play on 90% of multiplayer servers
16:34:29 <elliott> ais523: also, it automatically updates every time you log in without backup (but this is being fixed...)
16:34:49 <elliott> ais523: tl;dr when you fail to log in, you can play locally, but remote servers will check if you're logged in to minecraft.net, and if you're not, they won't let you in
16:34:52 <ais523> (see, if I treat Sun's pet projects like PSOX, perhaps they'll realise they're a bad idea)
16:34:55 <elliott> there are mods to stop this, but very few people use them
16:35:06 <elliott> ais523: err...I don't think Sun can realise anything at this point
16:35:15 <elliott> considering it's a lifeless carcass
16:35:20 <ais523> no, it was merged into Oracle
16:35:26 <ais523> that doesn't cause it to cease existing
16:35:31 <ais523> it's more like becoming a member of the Borg
16:35:32 <elliott> ais523: More like "dismembered".
16:36:15 <elliott> I seriously can't figure out whether Oracle are incompetent and evil or just REALLY evil.
16:43:26 <oerjan> just check for scales under the executives' makeup
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16:52:58 <Gregor> (If scales -> incompetent + evil. Friggin' lizards)
16:55:01 <elliott> no scales -> incompetent and evil
16:55:21 <oerjan> i was assuming elliott's interpretation here
16:55:32 <Gregor> Lizards aren't capable of that degree of evil, they're too stupid. Friggin' lizards.
16:56:00 <oerjan> these are ALIEN lizards, Gregor. not your average amazon jungle kind.
16:56:37 <Gregor> oerjan: And we all know that God's chosen people were on Earth, not out in space, so the space-lizards are clearly morons. QED.
16:56:45 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Microsystems#Sun_acquisitions Man... Sun acquired shitloads of corporations.
16:56:59 <oerjan> in fact they're probably dinosaurs who survived the extinction by developing FTL space travel and are now coming back to claim what they see as rightfully theirs.
16:57:11 <elliott> oerjan: but are they also nazis?
16:57:33 <oerjan> elliott: that's backward, the nazis were clearly them
16:57:45 <Gregor> Did they really have to develop FTL space travel to fit this story?
16:57:57 <Gregor> They would have had 30 million years of outwards travel (in potentia)
16:58:07 <elliott> DINOSAURS EXCEEDING LIGHTSPEED
16:58:17 <oerjan> Gregor: hm that's a point. in fact it would fit better with a slower-than-light generation ship
16:59:07 <elliott> CD87T-HFP4C-V7X7H-8VY68-W7D7M
16:59:10 <ais523> oerjan: wrong way round, FTL space travel would cause them to arrive before they set off
16:59:11 <elliott> that's just a random string of digits
16:59:14 <Gregor> They travelled for 30 million years, went "well this place is rubbish", and turned around in hopes that in the 60 million years since they'd left, Earth would've been restored.
16:59:16 <elliott> everyone ignore it, especially ais523
16:59:33 <ais523> elliott: I'm sure that posting suspicious random strings of alphanumerics is against some policy or other
16:59:46 <elliott> ais523: I have a policy that there is no such policy.
16:59:47 <Gregor> I'm betting it's a Windows product code
16:59:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It MIGHT be a Windows XP key that I just copied!
17:00:10 <oerjan> ais523: i think any ftl travel which doesn't come with some way of preventing closed time loops is going to be very destructive.
17:00:15 <ais523> why would you put it in the channel, anyway?
17:00:30 <elliott> ais523: because opening the iso again would be tedious, and why would i open another text editor when i have this one open?
17:00:32 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, to troll your boneheaded attitude towards copyright law, presumably.
17:00:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh shut up.
17:00:47 <elliott> ais523 is just anal about following laws, it doesn't mean he likes them.
17:01:10 <ais523> elliott: you could have PMed yourself
17:01:14 * elliott gives 768 megs of ram to the VM, but only because 1 gig seemed like a ridiculous amount
17:01:16 <ais523> it'd stop it getting lost in the garbage
17:01:30 <elliott> ais523: i'm just going to grep for lots of discussion about a key :D
17:02:06 <elliott> Failed to create a new virtual machine Windows XP.
17:02:06 <elliott> Registered machine with UUID {0380cf4a-618f-40a4-a9a0-e867c24c88ea} ('栯浯⽥汥楬瑯⽴嘮物畴污潂⽸慍档湩獥圯湩潤獷堠⽐楗摮睯偘砮汭') already exists.
17:02:38 <elliott> Now I can't remove this unknown VM :P
17:03:03 <ais523> elliott: why on earth would you not compare the hash to a known-genuine hash of Windows?
17:03:07 <ais523> because Microsoft doesn't publish those?
17:03:30 <ais523> elliott: well, you didn't put that VM there, presumably
17:03:37 <elliott> ais523: it was a virtualbox bug
17:03:43 <elliott> restarting virtualbox fixed it
17:03:49 <elliott> ais523: I haven't even /shown/ it the ISO yet
17:04:10 <elliott> ais523: anyway, there was a hash in the torrent information, and plenty of comments saying it was bit-for-bit identical to stock Windows, so I'm not going to bother checking -- after all, this /is/ a VM
17:04:18 <elliott> the whole _point_ is to run untrusted native code in complete safety
17:04:31 <elliott> ooh, I have hardware virtualisation now, which means I can emulate a dual-core machine if I so desire
17:04:48 <ais523> what about triple-core, two hardware, one software?
17:05:06 <ais523> elliott: sorry, just another insane idea
17:05:12 <ais523> that is probably a very bad one
17:05:44 <elliott> ugh, virtualbox is infuriatingly badly-designed
17:06:05 <elliott> also, by making the host key right ctrl, it has conveniently ignored the fact that i have no right control key
17:06:16 <ais523> elliott: how do you manage that?
17:06:32 <ais523> as in, what sort of keyboard wouldn't easily let you press control with either hand?
17:06:33 <elliott> fn ctrl alt cmd [spacebar] cmd alt <- V ->
17:06:37 <elliott> where <- V -> are the arrow keys
17:06:54 <elliott> (the arrow keys are one row heigh)
17:07:02 <elliott> ais523: obviously, you don't press ctrl in os x much
17:07:06 <elliott> since cmd is the main shortcut key
17:07:14 <ais523> the bottom row here is ctrl fn super alt ` spacebar altgr \ menu ctrl left down right
17:07:21 <elliott> no, wait, right winkey (cmd)
17:07:34 <ais523> ah, cmd = super, internally?
17:07:47 <elliott> ais523: well, by default -- this is Ubuntu, not OS X
17:07:54 <elliott> I could use xmodmap to change it if I wanted
17:08:03 <ais523> Ubuntu + apple keyboard
17:08:20 <elliott> ais523: *Ubuntu + MacBook Air
17:08:28 <elliott> except the rest of the hardware is Apple, too
17:09:17 <elliott> meanwhile on reddit: "Help! Just found out my vegan friend is trying to put her cat on a vegan diet, what should I do?"
17:10:29 <oerjan> <ais523> elliott: you could have PMed yourself> <-- /me didn't know this was possible
17:10:37 <ais523> oerjan: why wouldn't it be?
17:10:53 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin.
17:10:57 <elliott> <elliott> it's always good to have company
17:10:57 <elliott> <elliott> it's always good to have company
17:10:57 <elliott> <elliott> nobody else talks to me
17:11:00 <elliott> <elliott> nobody else talks to me
17:11:33 <copumpkin> for the lonely person too dumb to fire up to IRC instances?
17:17:48 <oerjan> <ais523> oerjan: why wouldn't it be? <-- it's not like using a remote chatting protocol to send yourself a message is an _intuitively_ obvious design feature
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17:18:19 <ais523> oerjan: well, it would more need a special case in order to stop that, and why would anyone implement that?
17:20:21 <elliott> only makes sense if you know the IRC protocol's basic structure, really
17:20:33 <elliott> mind you, stupid special-cases are annoyingly common in software
17:21:10 <elliott> wtf, the serial key doesn't work :(
17:21:16 <oerjan> <elliott> meanwhile on reddit: "Help! Just found out my vegan friend is trying to put her cat on a vegan diet, what should I do?" <-- it is a relatively well-known fact that felines _need_ some chemical(s) from meat in order to survive
17:21:37 <Gregor> Cats are not omnivores X_X
17:21:41 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, the post said that the friend in question had taurine covered.
17:21:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, she was.
17:22:00 <Slereah> Well, cats sometimes eat a bit of plants.
17:22:04 <elliott> Trying to put a carnivore on a non-carnivorous diet = moron.
17:22:07 <Slereah> But it's not a big part of their diet, yes
17:22:13 <elliott> No matter how many precautions you take, you're still an abject moron.
17:22:18 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, well, she'd clearly thought out the nutritional blah blah blah.
17:22:28 <Gregor> Slereah: It's as much a part of their diet as fiber is a part of ours, it aids in digestion but is not itself digested.
17:22:32 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Doesn't stop her being a moron.
17:22:34 <Phantom_Hoover> But yes, trying to force your beliefs on your cat is idiocy.
17:22:52 <elliott> MY KITTY-WITTY WOULD NEVER HUWT A FLY
17:22:52 <Gregor> My cat eats bugs ... hopefully hers will too :)
17:23:02 <elliott> WOULDN'T YOU KITTY? WUDDN'T YOO?
17:23:20 <elliott> NO YOO WUDN'T! OH NO YOO WUDN'T!
17:25:37 <oerjan> now what would _really_ make me facepalm is if it was an outdoor cat :D
17:26:07 <elliott> ugh @ the idea of an indoor cat
17:26:19 <Phantom_Hoover> I have, due to family stupidity, become the de-facto Disposer Of Dead Mice The Cat Brings In.
17:26:44 <Gregor> elliott: My cat is friggin' terrified of outside.
17:26:55 <elliott> Gregor: Your cat is broken.
17:27:01 <elliott> Gregor: (Don't tell me it's declawed)
17:27:10 <Gregor> Declawing is horrible.
17:27:19 <elliott> I had no idea you crazy bastards did it.
17:27:22 <Gregor> elliott: Having an indoor cat is not however.
17:27:40 <elliott> Gregor: Well, all the cats _I've_ known would have clawed you to death if you kept them indoors :P
17:27:49 <Gregor> quintopia: I have a friend whose cat is a dog.
17:27:57 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: get a new family
17:28:04 <elliott> I have a friend who's a dog.
17:28:13 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Strictly no, but imagine somebody tearing off all your fingernails so they wouldn't grow back.
17:28:18 <elliott> "Windows Xp Professional Professional serial number S/N: S/N:"
17:28:21 <elliott> Windows Xp PROFESSIONAL PROFESSIONAL
17:28:26 <quintopia> gregor: literally? or just acts like one?
17:28:36 <Gregor> quintopia: Behaviorally.
17:28:44 <Phantom_Hoover> [[...amputating all or part of the distal phalanx...]] — WP
17:28:46 <elliott> Gregor: Your friend's cat is broken.
17:28:56 <coppro> My other cat is also a dog
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17:29:39 <Gregor> And hates everyone who isn't me. And outside.
17:30:02 <quintopia> the only thing better than a cute little kitty is any dog.
17:30:09 <Gregor> Pfff, dogs are made of fail.
17:31:20 <elliott> Fail and stupid and moron and SMELL.
17:31:32 <elliott> In conclusion, dogs = poop
17:31:52 <oerjan> <elliott> Gregor: Well, all the cats _I've_ known would have clawed you to death if you kept them indoors :P <-- i vaguely recall it only works if you do it from birth
17:31:53 <Phantom_Hoover> [[It is estimated that 25% of owned cats in the United States are declawed (Patronek 2001).]]
17:32:14 <Gregor> oerjan: Nope, my cat lived the first seven years of her life as an indoor-outdoor cat.
17:32:19 <elliott> What's the point of a cat if you can't get a steady supply of dead mice from it
17:32:28 <elliott> Also the smiley for butts. I mean, the bottom value.
17:32:52 <Gregor> oerjan: Then she got bit and that got horribly infected, giving her very good reason to not want to go outside :P
17:33:05 <Gregor> oerjan: Since then, she's only willing to be outside if she's carried, and even then she's freaking out.
17:33:48 <elliott> Gregor: Please tell me her eyes widen considerably.
17:33:56 <elliott> While being completely still apart from a slight tremble.
17:34:04 <Gregor> elliott: She is not still in the least.
17:34:23 <Gregor> elliott: She hugs my neck with her claws in the back of my neck, and her considerably poofed-up tail twitches like mad.
17:34:39 <elliott> Gregor: BUT DO HER EYES WIDEN
17:34:54 <Gregor> elliott: Probably, it's hard to see her eyes when I'm carrying her in this fashion :P
17:35:56 <elliott> I wonder what I should feed into webmidi next.
17:36:45 <Gregor> elliott: It pans out the instruments to give it a more natural, stereo feeling.
17:36:52 <elliott> Gregor: Do I... want that?
17:37:03 <Gregor> elliott: If you're feeding it something orchestral, maybe. Otherwise, no.
17:37:14 <elliott> Gregor: I would say that this is certainly ORCHESTRAL in scope.
17:37:44 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
17:39:30 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/6768222720461/6768222720461.ogg ... not as good as the MIDI :P
17:39:34 <elliott> It's oklopol's sevenfold.mid.
17:39:51 <elliott> Gregor: Some of the drums are missing or something I think.
17:41:06 <elliott> Gregor: Trying it with chorium now.
17:42:21 <elliott> I think the amazing broke Gregor's brain.
17:43:04 <oerjan> Igor! Bring Gregor a new brain.
17:43:38 <Gregor> Yeah, my brain is pretty much dead from that.
17:44:13 <elliott> Gregor: The midi verison is better :P
17:44:19 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/6914810022931/6914810022931.mid
17:44:20 <ais523> what is sevenfold.mid?
17:44:24 <elliott> ais523: oklopol's masterpiece
17:44:35 <ais523> yes, but in what sense?
17:44:38 <elliott> ais523: http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/sevenfold.mid
17:44:40 <ais523> I mean, more precisely?
17:45:06 <elliott> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/6914810022931/ HOW LONG WILL THIS STAY QUEUED
17:45:35 <Gregor> elliott: FOREVER AND A DAY
17:47:38 -!- quintopia has joined.
17:49:20 <elliott> Gregor: It's still queued.
17:49:40 <Gregor> elliott: Has it been forever and a day yet?
17:51:04 -!- j-invariant has joined.
17:51:31 -!- cal153 has joined.
17:52:36 <Gregor> I really wish SONiVOX had better strings >_>
17:52:48 <elliott> I RE-ADDED IT AND IT'S STILL QUEUED
17:52:53 <elliott> I think your system is b0rked.
17:53:00 <Gregor> My system is batch(1), it's not broken.
17:53:16 <Gregor> Probably Codu is just a bit busy right now, webmidi is about the lowest priority anything on the system can possibly be.
17:53:31 <elliott> Gregor: No, clearly bath(1) is broken :P
17:54:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, incidentally, it just occurred to me that the trombute isn't really like a flute.
17:55:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, yes, but other things like, say, producing notes by overblowing, don't translate well.
17:55:38 <Gregor> It's not a trombone, either.
17:55:40 <Phantom_Hoover> And when you get around to the high notes with crazy fingerings, the mechanism of producing sound is clearly entirely different.
17:55:45 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/6914810022931/6914810022931.ogg This is better, except the volumes are more screwed up.
17:55:54 <elliott> The guitar is way too quiet and the non-cymbal drums too.
17:56:15 -!- variable has joined.
17:56:20 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/68611741718438/68611741718438.ogg This is better, but would be better if SONiVOX had better strings.
17:58:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, what's that enormous bit at the top of the trombute, BtW?
17:59:01 <elliott> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/7220343828770/7220343828770.ogg This is officially the greatest thing I have ever heard.
17:59:04 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: ... the mouthpiece??? I don't know to what you refer.
17:59:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, it has the narrow tube which slides, and then a much thicker cylinder at the top where you blow into it.
18:00:20 <Gregor> It's not thicker, it's the same bore.
18:00:48 <elliott> GUYS, http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/7220343828770/7220343828770.ogg
18:01:25 <variable> <ais523> variable: did that do anything useful? -> yeah it made the class :-)
18:02:01 * Phantom_Hoover tries to remember if the bore of a flute would affect its pitch
18:02:17 <ais523> variable: now I'm trying to remember the context of /my/ comment
18:02:26 <variable> ais523, hehe; re the class in a template
18:02:31 <ais523> oh, defining a class in a template arg
18:03:13 <ais523> elliott: g++ specifically, you're not supposed to be able to do that
18:03:21 <ais523> and I think probably only in older versions
18:03:52 <elliott> Man, the Haskell Platform Windows installer sure is swanky.
18:04:07 <elliott> (I must put GHC on every OS I possibly can.)
18:04:35 <elliott> 04:09:43 <quintopia> downside: "IRC access is forbidden"
18:04:36 <elliott> 04:10:06 <quintopia> which they won't notice for months, of course
18:04:43 <elliott> quintopia: just use prgmr.com, like Gregor does :P
18:04:58 <ais523> banning IRC is quite common because IRC used to make you a DDOS magnet
18:05:09 <ais523> I'm not sure if it still does
18:05:20 <elliott> well, gcc is very buggy, I imagine g++ is even worse
18:05:31 <ais523> (incidentally, when Vorpal gave me shell access to one of his machines, the only requirement was "don't use it for IRC", although I wouldn't have done so anyway except possibly by mistake)
18:06:02 <elliott> ais523: I wonder why on earth.
18:06:23 <elliott> ais523: oh, maybe because if you did something evil, Vorpal would get the same IP banned :-P
18:08:15 <elliott> oerjan: I think you might have to _omit_ the & in winghci to get it to fork
18:08:27 <elliott> oerjan: the default editor is "¬epad", and "notepad foo.txt" from a console exits immediately
18:08:29 <elliott> so I bet & means "wait for"
18:09:17 <elliott> oerjan: also, non-maximised scrolling works for me, in haskell platform 2010.2
18:09:27 <variable> ais523, http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=47144
18:10:31 <elliott> 05:55:57 <pikhq> He was rejected by the art school for not being sufficiently "modern" in his art style...
18:10:31 <elliott> 05:56:08 <pikhq> Yes, stupid art snobbery brought us the death of millions.
18:10:35 <elliott> pikhq: ISTR this being a total myth
18:10:37 <zzo38> In Windows, when I use the Windows command-line, GUI programs will reactivate the command-line immediately instead of waiting for the program to finish. When the UNIX command-line is used in Windows (such as with MinGW or Cygwin), the command-line will not be reactivated until the program is finished, unless & is typed at the end.
18:10:46 <elliott> in that he got his political opinions and aspirations well before he was rejected from art school
18:11:28 <variable> zzo38, depends on if the program forks and execs to "deamonize" or not
18:11:36 <elliott> 06:08:25 <Sgeo> _Perpendicular lines_ can make me feel uneasy
18:11:47 <elliott> variable: No fork in Win32 :P
18:11:57 <oerjan> elliott: hm i guess i'll have to try again with the newest version
18:12:14 <elliott> oerjan: then we can welcome you to the glorious world of 2007
18:12:22 <zzo38> (Use START /WAIT if you want to run a GUI program in the Windows command-line and wait for it to finish, but it is useful only for batch scripts?)
18:12:42 <elliott> oerjan: btw i notice that it defaults to using Consolas even if you don't have Consolas installed, which causes it to revert to Times New Roman
18:12:43 <variable> elliott, there is something similar in createProccess; I was talking about the unix tools though
18:12:56 <ais523> elliott: Windows has the spawn*() family of functions, which do the same as fork/exec; also CreateProcess/CreateProcessEx
18:13:10 <elliott> ais523: IIRC they don't quite do the same
18:13:14 <elliott> ais523: note that the NT kernel has forking capabilities, and the POSIX subsystem exposes this
18:13:24 <ais523> well, unlikely to be quite the same
18:13:36 <elliott> ais523: so NT is perfectly capable of efficient exact POSIX forking
18:13:39 <elliott> (well, I think it's efficient)
18:13:42 <elliott> ais523: just not in Win32 programs
18:13:58 <oerjan> elliott: although i'm pretty sure i tried without & too. the thing is that gvim from a console _also_ exist immediately, but _not_ from ghci or winghci last i tried. iirc.
18:14:22 <elliott> oerjan: hm you could make a start-gvim.bat
18:14:25 <elliott> oerjan: and use that as the editor
18:14:27 <zzo38> variable: In Windows it doesn't do. Cygwin programs can use fork, and ngIRCd (also CthulhuIRCd) runs in daemonizing mode by default (although doing this in Windows causes it to say the service was unable to start, and start anyways; now the service command cannot stop it, so I run it in non-daemonizing mode since the service manager will daemonize it for me)
18:14:40 <olsner> I have a gvim.bat in windows
18:14:50 <elliott> oerjan: for instance "start notepad" starts notepad and immediately returns
18:14:55 <olsner> (not sure what the problem is, but I'll just drop a solution anyway)
18:14:55 <elliott> oerjan: so if you had a gvim.bat with
18:15:10 <elliott> oerjan: then you could just give that as the editor to winghci
18:15:17 <variable> zzo38, heh ok; I haven't programmed for windows in years
18:15:31 <elliott> oerjan: put that as C:\whatever\gvim.bat, and use that as the winghci editor
18:16:31 <zzo38> Most UNIX programs can compile on Windows if you have Cygwin, though. Some will also work with MinGW.
18:16:51 <elliott> oerjan: winghci doesn't blink matching parens though which is irritating
18:17:40 <ais523> ^ perhaps the first time anyone has accused /absence/ of blink of being irritating
18:21:21 <Phantom_Hoover> http://knol.google.com/k/carl/what-is-computation/pcxtp4rx7g1t/30#
18:22:17 <Phantom_Hoover> It seems to be saying that the Cloud disproves the Church-Turing thesis.
18:22:53 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: by being super-TC and actually existing?
18:23:16 <ais523> AFAIK, that's the only way you can disprove the thesis, although it depends on your definition and there are something like 12 of them
18:23:26 <olsner> would something super-TC disprove the thesis?
18:23:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Seems to involve nondeterminism, which is not superturing by itself.
18:23:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:24:19 <Phantom_Hoover> [[there is a bound on the size of integer that can be computed starting on a blank tape by an always-halting machine]]
18:24:38 <Gregor> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/78362931531772/78362931531772.ogg <-- solution to all of life's problems.
18:24:46 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: only if you also put a bound on the size of the machine
18:25:07 <j-invariant> it's just a quantifier mixup, everyone makes mistakes like that
18:26:05 <Gregor> lol, the way they handle the fireworks and eggs hatching in MIDI = epic to the max.
18:26:32 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: IF YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE IT, YOU ARE MADE OF FAIL.
18:26:36 <Gregor> j-invariant: 'course not
18:26:53 <Gregor> j-invariant: I made http://codu.org/music/e/superturing/superturing.ogg though! 8-D
18:27:28 <Phantom_Hoover> j-invariant, well, OK, but is it actually the case that concurrency disproves the Church-Turing thesis?
18:28:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Although that was kind of the way the Reddit post for it framed it.
18:28:49 <olsner> based on the layout of the page, I'd say they're wrong
18:28:50 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: FAIL TO THE MAX
18:28:54 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: You need more Mario.
18:29:15 <olsner> Gregor: I don't recognize it either
18:29:21 <elliott> <ais523> ^ perhaps the first time anyone has accused /absence/ of blink of being irritating
18:29:30 <elliott> (foobar|) <-- the ( blinks
18:29:33 <ais523> elliott: I know, don't ruin the joke
18:29:34 <elliott> makes it easy to match parens
18:29:48 <olsner> Gregor: and mario is overrated
18:29:52 <elliott> <Phantom_Hoover> It seems to be saying that the Cloud disproves the Church-Turing thesis.
18:29:52 <elliott> <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: by being super-TC and actually existing? <-- nuh uh, there are no TC machines in this universe, and that doesn't disprove Church-Turing
18:29:56 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: I was 4 at the end of the eighties, and this game came out in '95 :P
18:30:02 <elliott> the universe that Church-Turing applies to is ... ill-defined, but it's one with turing machines in it
18:30:10 <Gregor> It's the ending and credits to Super Mario World ya loser.s
18:30:43 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Then you're a child of the '00s, and the point you were trying to make is that you weren't a child of the NINETIES.
18:30:47 <elliott> <Gregor> lol, the way they handle the fireworks and eggs hatching in MIDI = epic to the max.
18:31:01 <elliott> with drums for the eggs it seems :P
18:31:11 <elliott> that's a firework setting off
18:31:18 <Gregor> elliott: The eggs are a ways through.
18:31:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: So is SuperTuring Opus 14?
18:32:12 <Gregor> I thought it was pikhq's opinion that mattered.
18:32:19 <elliott> It is, and I'm sure he agrees. pikhq?
18:35:05 <elliott> pikhq: How do you get the POSIX subsystem running again?
18:35:57 <elliott> "Because only the first version of POSIX (POSIX.1) is implemented, a POSIX application cannot create a thread or window, nor can it use RPC or socket. Instead of implementing the later versions of POSIX, Microsoft offers Windows Services for UNIX."
18:36:01 <elliott> OK, tl;dr I should use Interix instead.
18:36:52 <ais523> elliott: IIRC, Windows POSIX implements only the bare minimum necessary to correctly claim compliance
18:36:58 <elliott> Still, I could download a Windows X11 server.
18:37:15 <elliott> ais523: false -- it ships with ksh, vi, gdb, perl, x11 programs and libraries (but no server), ...
18:37:28 <elliott> ais523: you're thinking of the POSIX subsystem, which just implemented the first POSIX standard, POSIX.1
18:37:37 <elliott> which is not the same thing as Windows Services for UNIX, based on the Interix subsystem
18:37:47 <elliott> (POSIX subsystem isn't included as of XP)
18:38:09 <elliott> ais523: heck, it even ships with gcc 3
18:38:18 <elliott> hmm, but it looks like the last release was in 200
18:38:25 <elliott> I'm just thinking that it's probably _much_ faster than cygwin
18:40:39 <elliott> oh look, Cygwin redesigned their website rather than making their package manager not suck or optimising
18:42:24 <Vorpal> <ais523> (incidentally, when Vorpal gave me shell access to one of his machines, the only requirement was "don't use it for IRC", although I wouldn't have done so anyway except possibly by mistake) <- I did?
18:42:34 <Vorpal> ais523, must have been ages ago
18:42:47 <Vorpal> ais523, I doubt whatever machine it was exists still
18:42:49 <ais523> you were hosting a C-INTERCAL repo, IIRC
18:43:02 <Vorpal> ais523, ah yes that server is gone
18:43:26 <quintopia> "don't use it for IRC. forkbombs, sure, but no IRC."
18:43:33 -!- impomatic has joined.
18:43:44 <ais523> as is envbot, by the look of it
18:43:58 <Vorpal> ais523, still launchpad. Probably not running on irc atm though
18:44:10 <Vorpal> quintopia, well it was freebsd with sensible limits set up
18:44:17 <Vorpal> so fork bomb wouldn't have worked really
18:44:19 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: j-invariant: the same guy who wrote that concurrency-disproves-church-turing thing also thinks Wikipedia is corrupt and censors
18:44:25 <elliott> Wikipedia ban for disruptive professor response at http://wikicensored.info
18:44:25 <elliott> http://wikicensored.carlhewitt.info
18:44:25 <elliott> Professor Carl Hewitt has written a response at the Google Knol "Corruption of Wikipedia."
18:44:29 <elliott> at least, I think that's what that implies
18:44:39 <elliott> Knol is basically a crackpot wasteland, anyway
18:45:27 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, from replies on the Reddit thread it looks like he neglected to mention that the Actor model is superturing by dint of adding a halting oracle.
18:47:06 <elliott> Cygwin still installs bash 3 by default. Discuss.
18:47:27 <Gregor> bash 4 sux and is for noobs
18:47:37 <ais523> I didn't even realise bash had distinct major versions
18:47:55 <Gregor> elliott: Did you notice that I upgraded WebMIDI's interface and it is now awesome?
18:48:03 <Gregor> (Read: Slightly less terrible)
18:48:31 <ais523> elliott: many programs just leave the major version the same forever
18:48:32 <elliott> Gregor: It's almost identical, dude :P
18:48:35 <ais523> in fact, probably most
18:48:39 <elliott> Gregor: NEEDS MOAR COLOUR MATCHER SET TO "DON'T MATCH"
18:48:52 <Gregor> elliott: The interface when you tell it to generate, not the start page X_X
18:48:54 <elliott> ais523: software versioning is a joke
18:49:04 <elliott> Gregor: Yeah, the text is different, but it still links to a raw directory listing :P
18:49:13 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
18:49:32 <Gregor> elliott: ... THE TEXT UPDATES ITSELF AND THEN GIVES YOU A DIRECT LINK TO THE OGG AND PLAYS THE AUDIO IN-PAGE YOU DUCKFUCKER
18:49:33 <quintopia> Gregor: update us when you get actual progress bars kthx
18:49:44 <elliott> Gregor: I didn't actually read the text.
18:49:47 <Gregor> quintopia: I have as close to a progress bar as is possible given FluidSynth.
18:49:50 <elliott> I just noticed that the wording was fluffier :P
18:50:03 <impomatic> I'm not a big fan of Wikipedia... Stupid bureaucracy, admins deleting stuff because they don't think it's notable yet they're not in a position to judge. Content being deleted because it's missing citations. :-(
18:50:22 <quintopia> Gregor: recommend you ditch fluidsynth forever
18:50:29 <Gregor> impomatic: Well, Wikipedia's not a fan of you either.
18:50:34 <Gregor> quintopia: FluidSynth - fucking - rocks.
18:50:48 <Gregor> quintopia: I don't think I can stress to you enough how much better FluidSynth is than all other options.
18:50:49 <ais523> impomatic: I get annoyed with the attitude of some admins wrt that too; in particular, "not notable" shouldn't even be a deletion reason
18:50:51 <quintopia> Gregor: surely there is something out there that rocks as much while sucking less
18:50:53 <elliott> FluidSynth is an utterly terrible program that produces great results, seemingly :P
18:51:09 <elliott> ais523: you shouldn't have given up your admin privileges, just so you can say things like that and people would listen
18:51:14 <ais523> "no significant secondary source coverage" is, and the one which should probably be used instead to remove the majority of people making pages about themselves, etc
18:51:23 <quintopia> suggest taking its main algorithm and putting it in a nonsuck program
18:51:33 <elliott> ais523: I still think the "reliable sources" criteria is... obsolete.
18:51:44 <ais523> elliott: it's policy, notability's just an essay
18:51:45 <elliott> ais523: I don't know what to replace it with, but "HURR IT'S INK ON PAPER" is just unbelievably stupid.
18:51:57 <ais523> oh, requiring printed sources is a little ridiculous, yes
18:52:04 <Gregor> quintopia: That's effort I have no intention of investing :P
18:52:07 <ais523> newspaper websites typically count, though, and are normally the easiest source to find
18:52:18 <ais523> (random blogs don't, which also makes sense)
18:52:30 <quintopia> Gregor: suggest you not be so damned lazy. leave laziness to the pros.
18:53:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
18:53:05 <ais523> email spam's dropped below 80% of all messages, it seems
18:53:19 <ais523> and has declined by more than half since this time last year
18:53:29 <Gregor> ais523: It's dropped below 99.99% of all messages???
18:53:57 <ais523> email spammers are either getting bored, or deciding other communication media are more worthy of spending cycles spamming
18:53:58 <quintopia> one of the major botnets quit outputting at the end of last year
18:54:02 <elliott> Vorpal: How does one obtain the latest cfunge?
18:54:06 <quintopia> and it has restarted but only at a trickle
18:54:11 <elliott> I want to subject Cygwin to it again.
18:54:16 <quintopia> who knows what they are gearing up for
18:55:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:55:35 <elliott> oerjan: any luck w/ Haskell Platform?
18:55:49 <impomatic> ais523: marking an article for deletion only gets a response from regular wikipedia users... not the kind of people who can judge whether or not it's notable.
18:55:53 <j-invariant> they have failed if you are even asking that question
18:55:59 <elliott> j-invariant: oerjan just has a nitpick with it
18:56:02 <elliott> j-invariant: specifically WinGhci
18:56:08 <elliott> the windows gui interface to ghci
18:56:08 <ais523> impomatic: that's why the conditions for deletion shouldn't depend on something as vague as notability
18:56:11 <elliott> and its interaction with gvim
18:56:30 <ais523> deleting an article because you can't find sources for it makes sense, though, because otherwise you have no way to tell if it's reliable
18:56:49 <elliott> impomatic: note that "the people who can judge whether or not its notable" are hard to find
18:56:57 <elliott> the people who know a lot about it usually want it kept, after all
18:57:01 <elliott> even if it's utter twaddle
18:57:21 <quintopia> let us discard the notability condition
18:58:02 <impomatic> Wikipedia seems to be full of people making non-productive edits.
18:58:50 <oerjan> elliott: um i haven't started yet :D
18:58:55 <ais523> impomatic: if you see how much obvious junk there is, you wouldn't be surprised at how people end up quick to delete
18:59:09 <ais523> when 80% or so of new stuff is rubbish, people get into a mentality of just deleting everything
18:59:52 <ais523> not that they should, but it's easy to see how it happens
19:00:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:00:13 -!- pikhq has joined.
19:00:49 <impomatic> The pseudo code on most Wikipedia pages seems to get regularly tweaked :-(
19:05:30 <oerjan> i've noticed an amount of what looks like very subtle vandalism that i simply cannot judge without knowing the subject - like changing single digits of years...
19:05:56 <oerjan> some places there is obviously a revert war going on but as a bystander i don't know who is the vandal :/
19:06:08 * elliott puts NetHack on the Windows VM
19:06:20 <elliott> GHC and NetHack -- does a computer without them have a right to exist?
19:06:45 <elliott> impomatic: The fork bomb page has something like 50 examples in different languages including multiple ways to do it in Win32 assembly (IIRC) -- totally ridiculous.
19:06:57 <elliott> impomatic: I got rid of most of them except for the iconic and useful ones and got reverted.
19:07:32 <elliott> "In PHP (probably only for POSIX compatible systems)"
19:07:52 <elliott> "In x86 FASM for Linux" "In x86 FASM for Win32" "In x86 NASM assembly for Linux" "In x86_64 NASM assembly for Linux"
19:08:04 <elliott> then a Lisp version that isn't even a forkbomb
19:08:19 <elliott> Java, VB.net, Pict, M, ABAP (wtf is ABAP)
19:08:29 <elliott> ABAP one looks like just for(;;);
19:08:42 <elliott> tl;dr People are idiots and I hate them.
19:09:45 <elliott> Quiz: What do you call a browser that isn't executing JavaScript but doesn't show noscript tags?
19:09:50 <elliott> Answer: Opera on Windows XP
19:10:13 <elliott> Gregor: Firefox would probably take all the VM's RAM hostage :P
19:10:25 <Gregor> Yeah, but at least it would execute JS.
19:10:34 <elliott> Gregor: I disabled JS execution :P
19:10:37 <olsner> hmm, "Any attempt of stopping this will cause the computer to flat-line"
19:10:42 <elliott> Gregor: I just want to know why it isn't showing the noscript contents.
19:10:44 <impomatic> Fork bomb in Redcode: spl 0 / jmp -1... I think it needs adding to Wikipedia
19:10:44 <Gregor> elliott: Well then you're made of fail.
19:10:54 <elliott> Gregor: Like Opera could handle any JS properly.
19:10:55 <Gregor> elliott: That reason is fine I guess :P
19:10:59 <Gregor> elliott: Fair enough :P
19:11:01 <elliott> Gregor: OH MAN WE'RE LAGGED AGAIN
19:11:10 <olsner> elliott: for the DOS forkbomb
19:11:31 <elliott> impomatic: you should add a complete OS implementation that just implements enough to be able to do while(fork()) fork()
19:11:40 <elliott> hmm, or should it be while (!fork()) fork()
19:11:48 <elliott> impomatic: in three different assemblers
19:12:02 <olsner> that is actually a really great idea
19:12:45 <elliott> olsner: it would act just like the NOP OS
19:13:05 <elliott> olsner: the OS that boots, and then does HLT, forever
19:13:12 <elliott> olsner: hmm, or just does JMP $ forever
19:13:16 <elliott> since the forkbomb will likely ramp up the CPU
19:13:25 <elliott> olsner: you should build every operation in your OS around fork()!
19:13:30 <olsner> depending on how you do it, you'd do nothing and then panic due to running out of memory
19:13:30 <impomatic> It doesn't mention the earliest example of a fork bomb.
19:14:07 <olsner> actually, I did consider making every syscall in my OS a "start process and send message" call with some magical way to start approved kernel processes
19:14:50 <olsner> which is not fork, but kind of somewhat similar
19:14:51 <elliott> the earliest example of a fork bomb is when somebody made a fork out of TNT
19:15:07 <elliott> olsner: ooh, or better: send message and start process before I started
19:15:20 <elliott> olsner: that is, it sends a message back in time, to a process that is retroactively created just before the current process was
19:15:35 <elliott> olsner: I have a proof that you can use this to implement your version but this message is too small to contain it
19:15:53 <olsner> aha, not just an OS but a causality experiment
19:16:23 <olsner> well, how hard can it be to say "oops, I didn't start this one before", then rollback to before the process started and try again
19:16:45 <elliott> olsner: result = compute_for_ages(); my_pid = getpid(); if (!preforksend(result)) { printf("Result will be: %d\n", result); exit(0); }
19:16:53 <elliott> olsner: this will print a result that takes a lot of time to compute, and then compute it
19:17:12 <elliott> olsner: note that *this* version will result in a causality error, probably resulting in your quantum universe being destroyed: result = compute_for_ages(); my_pid = getpid(); if (!preforksend(result)) { printf("Result will be: %d\n", result); exit(0); kill(pid); }
19:17:23 <elliott> hmm, shouldn't have had my_pid in the previous example
19:17:35 <olsner> if it calls exit, it can't have called exit!
19:24:56 <j-invariant> elliott: I said "love the game but one of the reason I bought it was because the site says no DRM. yet it connects to minecraft.org when you load it. fix pls?"
19:25:04 <olsner> elliott: the idea of doing syscalls in the past
19:25:06 <elliott> minecraft.org? moar like minecraft.net
19:25:21 <elliott> anyway the chances of him fixing that are nil.
19:25:28 <elliott> also he ignored fizzie too but i imagine he gets like 2 million tweets / second
19:25:33 <olsner> and an OS that can have causality errors
19:25:51 <elliott> olsner: it isn't the OS's error it's the universe's
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20:00:08 <j-invariant> elliott: have you read Conors new Ornaments paper?
20:00:48 <j-invariant> sure it sounds like a word so use it as one
20:02:27 <j-invariant> I guess snab would be the depiction of the sound of a mouse trap accidentally catchingp your finger
20:03:28 <Phantom_Hoover> j-invariant, I thought it meant something more akin to 'grab', with added connotations of friendly borrowing without permission.
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20:10:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I think you're just thinking of snag.
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20:11:31 <Gregor> Hmmm, no, that's definitely a real use of "snab", but I think that may be a corruption of "snag". I've definitely heard it.
20:12:44 <Gregor> Probably an Americanism too.
20:13:08 -!- impomatic has left (?).
20:17:19 <elliott> j-invariant: try a solid colour.
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20:22:02 <Gregor> j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled)
20:22:55 <Gregor> j-invariant: OKOKOK, then http://codu.org/ugly.png (also tiled)
20:23:57 * Gregor has the best wallpapers EVER.
20:24:00 <elliott> `addquote <j-invariant> I need a new desktop background <Gregor> j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled) <j-invariant> uhrghoaudp
20:24:34 <Gregor> Oh Mercurial ... I still love you!
20:24:49 <HackEgo> 281) <j-invariant> I need a new desktop background <Gregor> j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled) <j-invariant> uhrghoaudp
20:24:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: solid colour
20:25:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, I thought your love for Mercurial was being added to the next DSM?
20:25:26 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: ...???
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20:33:32 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: GO LISTEN TO SUPERTURING ON LOOP
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20:43:24 <elliott> Gregor: You know what sucks? MERCURIAL. And YOUR MOM.
20:43:51 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> j-invariant, is 'snab' a word. <-- "snabb" is a word in swedish :)
20:44:30 <elliott> huh, mario is a bigger franchise than pokemon
20:45:15 <elliott> pikhq: I just did a quick REVIVAL of MicroXP.
20:46:08 <oerjan> (also in norwegian it means a piece of sausage)
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20:51:09 <elliott> pikhq: I've been a bit less drastic than last time in that I've left IE in for the purpose of downloading another browser... but the ISO is still <200 megs :P
20:57:38 <elliott> C:\WINDOWS: 339 MB (344 MB on disk)
20:58:26 <Vorpal> elliott, which version of windows?
20:58:35 <elliott> XP, with all the crap gutted.
20:58:40 <elliott> (OK, so it doesn't support printers or scanners like this.)
20:58:55 <elliott> And it has Windows 2000's installer, too.
20:59:02 <Vorpal> elliott, well I presume you don't
20:59:05 <elliott> Which is vastly superior to XP's by way of not being hideous.
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21:22:25 <quintopia> is there a python IDE that sucks least?
21:23:45 <elliott> or vi if you're that kind of person
21:24:00 <elliott> quintopia: emacs works fine on windows. gvim even better
21:24:18 <elliott> quintopia: if going the emacs route, get EmacsW32 to avoid pain
21:27:03 <quintopia> http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7084/screenshotrqx.png
21:28:17 <elliott> quintopia: gedit is actually "okay" if you customise it... kinda... that isn't windows
21:28:23 <elliott> that's ubuntu skinned to look vaguely like vista
21:28:37 <elliott> dear god my eyes, how can anyone live with all that noise on the screne
21:28:44 <elliott> lol at "sh: vim: not found"
21:28:49 <elliott> quintopia: but you COULD!!!!
21:28:55 <elliott> http://live.gnome.org/Gedit/Windows
21:29:01 <elliott> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/binaries/win32/gedit/
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21:52:33 <elliott> oerjan: btw running ghci in a cygwin terminal works quite nicely
21:52:51 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
21:52:53 <oerjan> ...now he wants me to install cygwin as well :D
21:52:53 <elliott> mintty (= fork of putty as a cygwin terminal) + running "ghcii.sh" = ghci
21:56:26 <oerjan> ok now about to start winghci
21:56:29 <elliott> heh, apparently cygwin startup is very slow because bash_completion forks a lot
21:56:39 <elliott> oerjan: written gvim.bat yet? :p
21:57:00 <oerjan> i'm checking the scrolling first
21:57:16 <oerjan> it decided to maximize without asking
21:57:29 <elliott> oerjan: it does that on first launch
21:58:35 <elliott> oerjan: hey in fact the vim installer has an option to create .bats for command line use for you :)
21:58:59 <oerjan> hm ok aborting an infinite fibonacci left it in reasonable state
21:59:22 <elliott> iirc I was unable to abort "sum [0..]", but i've never entered _that_ into ghci before :)
22:00:16 <oerjan> so did a simple mapM_ print of a list of lists
22:00:40 <oerjan> elliott: yes that's well known that you cannot abort loops that neither allocate nor do IO
22:01:03 <oerjan> or at least it was last i heard
22:01:11 <elliott> but not on windows i guess
22:01:13 <elliott> since ^C sends a signal on unix
22:01:16 <elliott> and i doubt it does on windows
22:01:26 <elliott> so it'd have to have a keyboard input check in the native code, I guess
22:01:30 <elliott> rather than just in the allocator/IO
22:01:32 <elliott> which would be very slow ofc
22:01:39 <oerjan> well winghci has an abort button did you use that?
22:02:07 <elliott> yeah you can't ^C with ghcii.sh either
22:04:32 <oerjan> i'm trying now just setting up gvim with & in front like i did last time, to see if that's also fixed
22:05:40 <oerjan> elliott: it looks like both of the irritating bugs from last time have been fixed so i don't need any special .bat file :)
22:06:07 <elliott> oerjan: mwahahaha, we have forcibly pulled you into the 21st century!
22:06:17 <elliott> oerjan: when are you going to upload your cabalised packages to Hackage
22:06:31 <elliott> oerjan: that malbolge unshackled interpreter of yours -- should use bytestrings shouldn't it?
22:07:39 <elliott> oerjan: oh and really you should rewrite your programs to take advantage of fusion... and then compile them with the llvm backend
22:08:08 <oerjan> nao replacing winhugs desktop shortcut
22:08:48 <elliott> oerjan: but will you uninstall it, or are you keeping it around for remembering the good ol' days?
22:09:00 <oerjan> the scrolling bug came back
22:09:48 <oerjan> the window doesn't show the bottom of the screen and i cannot scroll to it
22:09:56 <oerjan> (including the prompt)
22:10:12 <elliott> oerjan: try pressing enter?
22:10:36 <oerjan> i restarted winghci, loaded my Basic file of simple functions and imports, and did a :bro(wse)
22:11:03 <oerjan> maximizing and unmaximizing worked
22:11:31 <oerjan> another :bro didn't mess it up again
22:12:07 <oerjan> i'm wondering... could it have anything to do with the font fallback you mentioned?
22:12:22 <elliott> oerjan: hm possibly, go into options and set it to a font you have
22:12:24 <oerjan> i'll try setting it to times new roman explicitly
22:12:39 <elliott> proportional fonts for haskell
22:12:45 <elliott> oerjan: good for you ghci doesn't do layout :P
22:12:58 <Phantom_Hoover> At some point someone should really do that in-GHCi documentation thing.
22:13:28 <oerjan> elliott: hm that is a point, what did i have in winhugs...
22:13:41 <elliott> oerjan: courier new maybe?
22:13:52 <elliott> please don't tell me it's fixedsys :D
22:13:53 <pikhq> Huh... Now, APNIC, ARIN, *and* RIPE are eligible to allocate.
22:14:05 <elliott> oerjan: I set it manually to Arial because that's what my fallback became when i installed NanoXP
22:14:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Due to Chrome not letting me move my webcomic feed collection, I have forgotten to follow Darths & Droids for the last week or so.
22:14:22 <elliott> oerjan: well... i'm not going to let you use fixedsys with winghci
22:14:35 <elliott> Courier New 9pt is quite nice if a bit small ... and serifed
22:14:45 * oerjan sets winghci to courier new
22:15:06 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: USE GOOGLE READER OR USE AN RSS READER PROGRAM OR WHATEVER
22:15:15 <elliott> it took several seconds to start irssi
22:15:16 <oerjan> elliott: perhaps the proportional font messed it up, say by not being able to guess how big the lines were
22:15:36 <elliott> oerjan: possibly, although it looks like a fairly standard windows text control to me
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22:16:17 <elliottXP> Cygwin is /impressively/ slow, even; I wonder if I'm doin it rong
22:16:41 <quintopia> someone help me build a magical flying auto-targeting sword to kill people who don't like Lynyrd Skynyrd. And also everyone who refuses to help build it.
22:16:45 <elliottXP> oh, ghc.exe at 99% CPU might have something to do with it
22:16:50 <elliottXP> quintopia: um I don't like Lynyrd Skynyrd
22:17:00 * quintopia puts ehird at the top of the list of kill targets
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22:18:25 <pikhq> Because of the PS3 hack, the *PS2* is hacked pretty wide open, too.
22:18:30 <elliottXP> pikhq: HEY YOU, I GOT A WINDOWS XP ISO DOWN TO LESS THAN 200 MEGS
22:18:44 <elliottXP> _WITH_ THE CONVENIENT BROWSER SELECTION & DOWNLOAD INTERFACE KNOWN AS "INTERNET EXPLORER"
22:18:52 <pikhq> One of the PS2 signing keys is on the PS3.
22:18:55 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: but will you uninstall it, or are you keeping it around for remembering the good ol' days? <-- well it _was_ occasionally nice to be able to :f straight to a function's source
22:19:09 <pikhq> Yes, that's *3* systems cracked for the price of one.
22:19:14 <pikhq> Oh, sorry, also Bluray.
22:19:26 <elliottXP> oerjan: Well hey, if you use Emacs, then you can even click errors to go to (and highlight) the appropriate region of your code ...
22:19:56 <quintopia> what fraction of Sony's console sales are PS2?
22:20:10 <pikhq> quintopia: Now? Somewhat small.
22:20:12 <oerjan> <oerjan> elliott: indeed it is <-- that was in response to courier new btw, not fixedsys
22:20:30 <quintopia> so they probably don't care so much
22:20:35 <pikhq> quintopia: In the past? Well, it is the best selling console of all time.
22:20:56 <oerjan> <pikhq> Huh... Now, APNIC, ARIN, *and* RIPE are eligible to allocate. <-- uh oh. maybe someone did a behind the scenes deal for APNIC not to take all at once?
22:21:06 <pikhq> oerjan: Irrelevant.
22:21:07 <elliottXP> so hey guys, what ridiculously impractical program should I compile on Cygwin
22:21:26 <pikhq> oerjan: Whichever RIR asks for the smallest possible IANA allocation finishes the IPv4 space off.
22:21:49 <pikhq> oerjan: As the remainder of the IANA space gets split and handed to every RIR when that happens.
22:22:00 <quintopia> pikhq: point is, they don't care as much now as they would have 2 years ago
22:22:37 <pikhq> quintopia: Quite true.
22:22:44 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> Due to Chrome not letting me move my webcomic feed collection, I have forgotten to follow Darths & Droids for the last week or so. <-- heh. i actually don't use feeds for my webcomics since i know when they all update. (i did use for oots when i followed that, since it's so irregular.)
22:22:50 <quintopia> elliottXP: it prevents a lot of headaches and competition
22:22:54 <pikhq> quintopia: However, this is *in addition* to the PSP and PS3 both being hacked forever and ever and ever.
22:23:07 <pikhq> quintopia: And Bluray being kinda-sorta hacked forever and ever and ever.
22:23:13 <elliottXP> I don't think the RIRs are that childish.
22:23:14 <quintopia> pikhq: and, we know they DO care about those
22:23:50 <elliottXP> you know what sucks? Xming's release policy
22:23:57 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, well, I do follow OOTS, although I'm beginning to wonder why, as well as Hark, A Vagrant, which is unquestionably worth reading.
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22:25:03 <quintopia> kate beaton is pretty much awesome
22:25:07 <oerjan> <elliottXP> oerjan: Well hey, if you use Emacs, then you can even click errors to go to (and highlight) the appropriate region of your code ... <-- i actually meant code to the haskell _libraries_ there, hugs is an interpreter so includes them.
22:25:47 <elliottXP> oerjan: ah. hm I don't know if ghc includes sources, but it would be cool if it did
22:25:51 <Phantom_Hoover> She is literally the only person with a humanities degree who I respect.
22:25:54 <pikhq> quintopia: Perhaps the best bit is that Sony appears to be learning absolutely no lessons on how to do this "right".
22:26:01 <elliottXP> oerjan: interpreting haskell seems a bit weird, since you already need a typechecking stage :)
22:26:20 <quintopia> pikhq: well, no worries. eventually they'll get out of the console business and someone who doesn't suck will step in
22:26:30 <elliottXP> someone who doesn't suck will step in
22:26:31 <pikhq> "Someone who doesn't suck". Not going to happen.
22:26:36 <elliottXP> never have less probable words been uttered
22:26:42 <pikhq> The closest we have is Microsoft.
22:27:01 <quintopia> (even though whoever that is will eventually suck as much)
22:27:03 <elliottXP> quintopia: name a field of computing where suckage has gone down over time rather than up
22:27:06 <quintopia> (it's the natural order of things)
22:27:16 <oerjan> <pikhq> oerjan: Whichever RIR asks for the smallest possible IANA allocation finishes the IPv4 space off. <-- oh so asking for just one /8 isn't possible?
22:27:26 <quintopia> we're talking about an instantaneous change
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22:27:45 <elliottXP> because sony are going to go out of business overnight
22:27:49 <elliottXP> and PoopCorp Consoles will take their place
22:27:52 <quintopia> sony takes the suck to level 50. someone steps in who sucks 40 and takes it up to 90, when someone who sucks 80 steps in
22:28:21 <pikhq> oerjan: And asking for that /8 causes IANA to split up the remaining 6.
22:28:34 <elliottXP> oerjan: btw i'm almost done rewriting the log formatter :D
22:28:43 <elliottXP> just need to tune it up, attach it to http, ... other stuff ...
22:28:48 <quintopia> elliottXP: i really think poopcorp has a chance. if not, i'm out a lot of money cuz i bought so much POOP stock
22:29:04 <pikhq> So far we have both Nintendo and Sony doing *ridiculously* basic crypto fails...
22:29:27 <pikhq> Kinda surprised that Microsoft's not had anything like that happen.
22:29:47 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: mind you the feed for oots didn't actually _work_ for me, it kept readding old comics.
22:30:07 <pikhq> strcmp is *definitely* the right way to compare arbitrary blocks of memory containing binary data. *Definitely*.
22:30:43 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Nintendo.
22:30:51 <elliottXP> Phantom_Hoover: The Japanese esoprogram constantly.
22:30:59 <elliottXP> PostScript esoprogramming is common in Japan but seemingly rare elsewhere.
22:31:07 <elliottXP> Also they're the top golfers (see golf.shinh.org)
22:31:14 <elliottXP> Japanese programmers are awesome :)
22:31:16 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: That is the first arbitrary code execution exploit.
22:33:03 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: For the Wii.
22:33:10 <oerjan> <pikhq> oerjan: And asking for that /8 causes IANA to split up the remaining 6. <-- erm there are 5 RIRs not 6
22:33:39 <elliottXP> Phantom_Hoover: don't do that i don't have an interrobang here
22:33:39 <pikhq> oerjan: Mmm... Lemme check.
22:34:05 <Gregor> TIME TO SEE IF MY NEW JACKET IS IN
22:34:22 <pikhq> oerjan: Ah, sorry, s/6/5/, and APNIC is almost certainly going to request 2 /8s.
22:35:06 <oerjan> pikhq: well i suggested conspiratorially above that maybe they had made a deal to only take 1 and so to wait until the others could take the other
22:35:23 <elliottXP> oerjan: I think one /8 would cause division too
22:35:24 <pikhq> elliottXP: IANA will deny the request for, like, the first time ever.
22:35:30 <pikhq> elliottXP: They are capable of it.
22:35:40 <elliottXP> pikhq: it'd be hilarious to see them try though
22:35:42 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: There's been several other exploits for the Wii, because the thing is coded in C.
22:35:47 <oerjan> elliottXP: if they took one /8 there would be 6 left, which is plainly not divisible by 5
22:35:53 <elliottXP> "HELLO, I would like THE REST OF THE INTERNET, thank you."
22:35:56 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: And, as you can tell, Nintendo's coders aren't carefull...
22:36:07 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Also, third-party coders are even less careful.
22:36:07 <elliottXP> pikhq: you're not very carefull with your spelling either
22:36:23 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: There's probably hundreds of usable buffer overflow bugs.
22:36:25 <pikhq> elliottXP: Shaddup.
22:37:22 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Probably the funniest thing is how Nintendo fixed the savegame buffer overflow bug in Zelda...
22:37:40 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: They added buffer checking for that specific game *into the system menu*.
22:38:19 <oerjan> <elliottXP> PostScript esoprogramming is common in Japan but seemingly rare elsewhere. <-- there's this guy at ntnu's math institute who i recall occasionally wrote things directly in postscript. well, i've also tried too.
22:38:58 <pikhq> coppro: Well, yes, there is nothing they can update for actual on-disc games.
22:39:01 <Gregor> NEW JACKET NEW JACKET NEW JACKET YESSSSS
22:39:30 <pikhq> They can't even update IOS.
22:39:52 <pikhq> (oh, yeah, the Wii actually *adds a new copy of IOS* when it adds features.)
22:40:22 <pikhq> Such a terrible architecture.
22:41:00 <Gregor> This jacket ... it has so many pockets ... <3
22:41:02 <oerjan> postscript feels like a sort of forth/logo hybrid
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22:41:09 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, how I felt about swastikas
22:42:04 <Sgeo> That showed up properly in the pop-up thingy, but not in XChat itself
22:42:10 <Gregor> Crap I seriously need the pocket map X_X
22:42:34 <Sgeo> Unless the second char wasn't a weird unicode
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22:42:52 <pikhq> The second character was the full-width question mark.
22:42:59 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, showing up just after the nick of time
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22:45:37 <elliottXP_> in a feat never previously accomplished by oerjan, I have an irssi in a PuTTY terminal running natively on Windows without the requirement or lag of an SSH connetion
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22:46:19 <oerjan> elliottXP's a witch. burn him!
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22:48:34 <elliottXP_> i bet oerjan's such a noob as to not even use nanoxp
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22:49:39 <elliottXP> Windows 3.1 GUI executable gvim##w16.zip and gvim##m16.zip
22:49:40 <elliottXP> These are GUI versions for 16 bit windows (Windows 3.1). The "w16" has many features, "m16" has few features (for when you're short on memory).
22:50:41 <elliottXP> oerjan: NanoXP is what happens when you give me nLite (Windows ISO customisation tool) and a healthy belief that almost all software is completely useless
22:51:01 <elliottXP> oerjan: It's a Windows XP ISO that's less than 200 megabytes and doesn't install things like "themes" and "things needed for printer support".
22:51:21 <elliottXP> But hey, it runs pretty quick and doesn't yell at you for not installing things it wants you to.
22:51:46 <elliottXP> http://java.com/en/ "JAVA + YOU, DOWNLOAD TODAY!"
22:52:09 <elliottXP> Never before has a virtual machine been so aggressively, or badly, marketed.
22:53:04 <elliottXP> Hey, installing Windows is the key to getting a swatter.
22:54:14 <Gregor> lol, this jacket has an excellent spot for everything except my wallet :P
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22:54:50 <elliottXP> Sgeo: 23:01 < elliottXP> oerjan: NanoXP is what happens when you give me nLite
22:54:50 <elliottXP> (Windows ISO customisation tool) and a healthy belief that
22:54:51 <elliottXP> almost all software is completely useless
22:54:51 <elliottXP> 23:01 < elliottXP> oerjan: It's a Windows XP ISO that's less than 200 megabytes
22:54:54 <elliottXP> and doesn't install things like "themes" and "things needed
22:54:59 <elliottXP> 23:01 < elliottXP> But hey, it runs pretty quick and doesn't yell at you for
22:55:02 <elliottXP> not installing things it wants you to.
22:55:26 <elliottXP> Hey, Java didn't tell me that by installing Java, I will be able to experience the power of Java, brought to me by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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22:57:27 <oerjan> it is oracle now. you are utterly powerless. *MWAHAHAHA*
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23:06:32 <elliott> does anyone know how to get opengl working in virtualbox?
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23:16:44 <tswett> "alaskausa" looks like a Finnish word.
23:17:12 <oerjan> `translatefromto fi en alaskausa
23:17:41 <oerjan> `translatefromto fi en kausa
23:17:44 <tswett> It's not a Finnish word, though.
23:18:02 <HackEgo> Alaska's primary provider of consumer credit and one of the State's largest financial institutions with branches across Alaska and Washington. AlaskaUSA ... \ www.alaskausa.org/ - [13]Cached - [14]Similar
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23:23:51 <Sgeo> elliott, so DS9 supposedly gets more storyline based in season 3 and beyond?
23:24:08 <elliottXP> Sgeo: It's all storyline, all the time.
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23:26:07 <quintopia> Sgeo: but as soon as other members of Odo's people start showing up, it gets more coherent
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23:27:29 <elliottXP> quintopia: Pretty good criteria for a name :P
23:27:52 <quintopia> yes, but it is also a poor choice for a name
23:28:08 <quintopia> since it traditionally refers to demon babies left in cribs to replace stolen human babies
23:28:30 <elliottXP> Uh oh, it's getting to the point where I've made Windows comfortable enough and the memories of battling with my GHC installation are still fresh enough in my mind to feel vaguely good about this installation ...
23:28:57 <olsner> elliott: uh oh, this is not a sign of anything good
23:29:12 <quintopia> elliottXP: be afraid. be very afraid. it's like a tootsie roll pop. too many licks and you will bite it. or it may bite you!
23:30:02 <elliottXP> olsner: don't worry -- as soon as I realise how fucking _slow_ Cygwin is and always will be, it'll subside
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23:30:39 * oerjan recalls when he was young he used to eat the paper of the stick after eating the lollipop candy
23:30:54 <olsner> that seems like a common thing to do
23:31:16 <olsner> I never did it obviously, I realized that it was not a part of the candy and learned to throw it away
23:31:32 <elliottXP> olsner: also, once I realise that editing things like "C:\Users\Elliott\Application Data\cabal\config" is going to get really tedious quickly
23:31:35 <oerjan> (the paper the stick was made of, not the wrapping paper)
23:31:38 <elliottXP> oh wait, I can make a symlink ~/appdata
23:32:09 <olsner> symlinks only work in cygwin though, windows programs won't be able to use it
23:32:23 <elliottXP> olsner: yeah, but that doesn't exactly matter
23:32:39 <elliottXP> olsner: %APPDATA% works in Win32 :P
23:32:40 <olsner> (junction points can be used similarly to symlinks if you need windows support, but cygwin doesn't support them properly)
23:32:50 <elliottXP> well cygwin doesn't support anything properly.
23:32:54 <elliottXP> it's pretty much a failure at life.
23:32:56 <olsner> but $APPDATA doesn't work in cygwin?
23:33:08 <olsner> (of course not, it's cygwin...)
23:33:12 <elliottXP> olsner: well. it points to the C:\foo style path
23:33:15 <elliottXP> i dunno if cygwin progs will like that
23:33:33 <elliottXP> olsner: oh actually $ nano "$APPDATA/cabal/config" works
23:33:35 <olsner> it translates the PATH automagically
23:33:48 <elliottXP> does need quoting though thanks to windows spaces in filenames
23:33:58 <elliottXP> ofc gvim can just use $APPDATA too IIRC
23:34:09 <olsner> oh right, lots of cygwin stuff actually work with windows paths too iirc
23:34:21 <olsner> for other stuff and/or scripts you can use cygpath
23:35:03 <elliottXP> olsner: I've made progfiles be C:\Programs and Documents and Settings be C:\Users, so at least typing in paths isn't quite so tedious
23:36:11 <elliottXP> olsner: I have a feeling 2004-vintage Interix might be better than Cygwin
23:36:19 <elliottXP> because it, you know, actually uses a kernel subsystem to do this shit
23:36:28 <elliottXP> rather than a bad, rickety user-space impl
23:36:42 <elliottXP> lol gvim.bat in cygwin ignores my vimrc
23:38:15 <olsner> elliottXP: is any of that unix-on-windows stuff free?
23:38:25 <olsner> elliottXP: $HOME is different under cygwin
23:38:54 <olsner> and the cmd that runs the bat inherits its environment from cygwin
23:39:49 <elliottXP> olsner: Yes, Microsoft-supported Interix is free.
23:39:57 <elliottXP> Ships with, you know, gcc 3.3! You can run Gentoo Prefix on it I think.
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23:44:46 <pikhq> elliottXP: Or Debian.
23:44:56 <olsner> hmm, I might be replacing some cygwin crap with that then
23:45:29 <elliottXP> olsner: last release 2004, supported until 2011 only iirc
23:45:37 <elliottXP> olsner: later releases integrated into Windows Server I think but no standalone download
23:45:46 <elliottXP> olsner: OTOH, POSIX doesn't really change much, so you could rip out the whole userland
23:46:06 <elliottXP> olsner: but note that it's a totally different kernel subsystem to Win32 -- i.e. there is literally no interaction with Win32
23:46:25 <pikhq> elliottXP: It's also available for Vista and Windows 7... For free.
23:46:29 <elliottXP> but then, you don't really need it
23:47:26 <pikhq> Ah, sorry, it's *included* in Vista and 7 Ultimate and Enterprise.
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23:47:36 <olsner> elliottXP: not even starting windows programs?
23:47:37 <pikhq> But not standalone.
23:47:48 <elliottXP> olsner: the lengthy corporate name to google is "Windows Services for UNIX"
23:48:13 <pikhq> elliottXP: "Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications" post-XP.
23:48:17 <elliottXP> olsner: notably, I think it has a fast fork(), thanks to being an actual kernel (well, kernel-on-a-kernel)
23:48:30 <elliottXP> pikhq: Yeah, but post-XP versions aren't downloadable.
23:48:43 <olsner> hmm, meh, there are easier ways to get rid of cygwin
23:49:11 <pikhq> http://www.debian-interix.net/
23:49:32 <olsner> for this particular purpose, rewriting a bunch of shell scripts in (e.g.) python
23:49:33 <pikhq> Not an official port, but it's a functional one.
23:49:57 <pikhq> elliottXP: That's Debian Stable right now.
23:50:02 <elliottXP> without cygwin you don't have a shell
23:50:04 <pikhq> elliottXP: Anyways, I could swear there's a more recent one. :/
23:50:24 <elliottXP> pikhq: pretty sure subsystem for unix based applications is Server editions only
23:50:44 <pikhq> elliottXP: No. No it isn't.
23:51:20 <pikhq> Argh, yeah, that Debian port is no longer maintained.
23:52:05 <pikhq> The Gentoo one is.
23:56:03 <pikhq> Gentoo Prefix apparently also supports Win32?
23:58:16 <pikhq> I am attempting to find details.