< 1296000084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to Cygwin... < 1296000093 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/Rjca < 1296000095 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're welcome. < 1296000096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I don't know either. < 1296000109 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AutoHotKey script that makes Win+K empty the recycle bin.) < 1296000126 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeeeeewl < 1296000143 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So... got a link? I'm willing to try that out. < 1296000188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: I haven't a clue how to use it. < 1296000194 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan < 1296000207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: All I know is they've got a shell script that bootstraps it. < 1296000214 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan < 1296000219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: I don't know how you're supposed to run that shell script without a shell. < 1296000222 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan < 1296000250 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have a Cygwin shell. < 1296000251 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link me. < 1296000264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: http://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/alt/browser/trunk/prefix-overlay/scripts/bootstrap-prefix.sh?format=txt < 1296000278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use: < 1296000287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see private message) < 1296000305 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: msg elliottXP plz < 1296000305 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea < 1296000312 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1296000315 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's rewrite all of minecraft in sql!!! < 1296000334 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is content having finally come up with the dumbest idea ever.
< 1296000384 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, wait. < 1296000393 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Won't this just compile all that shit with Cygwin? < 1296000398 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How can I tell it I want a Win32 build? < 1296000431 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i586-pc-interix*) < 1296000431 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : profile="${PORTDIR}/profiles/prefix/windows/interix/${C$ < 1296000434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: Uh... Should be an extra argument to the script. < 1296000434 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;; < 1296000436 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i586-pc-winnt*) < 1296000439 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : profile="${PORTDIR}/profiles/prefix/windows/winnt/${CHO$ < 1296000442 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;; < 1296000445 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i686-pc-cygwin*) < 1296000447 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : profile="${PORTDIR}/profiles/prefix/windows/cygwin/${CH$ < 1296000450 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;; < 1296000453 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I somehow doubt this will work ... < 1296000459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000467 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000467 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000468 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000469 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000469 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000471 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000532 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: http://i.imgur.com/dIFw6.png < 1296000569 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: RUN < 1296000574 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop taking screenshots and run < 1296000604 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1296000608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good God there's a lot of stuff to bootstrap Gentoo Prefix. < 1296000630 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000630 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000630 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000630 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cheater99 < 1296000636 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF there is another one < 1296000646 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan i have something for you < 1296000648 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Spicy-Cock-Soup-1-7oz/dp/B002Q46EH6/ < 1296000652 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bon apetit. < 1296000664 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what was that for :D < 1296000711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: um cheater99 started it < 1296000727 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: um oerjan started it < 1296000730 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh did i, i wasn't paying attention < 1296000731 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*he, < 1296000737 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you, < 1296000738 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you kick him, that would be great, thanks < 1296000746 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(worth a shot) < 1296000750 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can kick me in the ballz < 1296000751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: i'll decide after visiting that link < 1296000760 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's child pornography < 1296000762 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd better kick him < 1296000763 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm quite into trampling today < 1296000781 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: i have a hunch he'd very much enjoy that topic... < 1296000789 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right oerjan <3 < 1296000798 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is cock soup somehow distinct from chicken soup ...? < 1296000803 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh please, just kick him and end our national nightmare < 1296000803 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296000819 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol cygwin bash fails at wrapping lines < 1296000825 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: what does this have to do with nationality? < 1296000832 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is a nationality. < 1296000848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: ok i find the link to be insufficient reason for kicking < 1296000869 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you find elliottXP's moaning to be sufficient reason? < 1296000876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am seriously intrigued :P < 1296000879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: not yet < 1296000882 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1296000884 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know why cock soup is different from chicken soup. < 1296000896 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the product actually /is/ a joke. < 1296000897 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's gayer. < 1296000903 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not yet? < 1296000904 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's out of *cocks* < 1296000907 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well cheater99 molested me you see. < 1296000919 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: you have such a slender bum < 1296000922 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Yes, but why would that make any difference? < 1296000925 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: it's like wet velvet.. < 1296000929 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: case in point < 1296000933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is actually a "cock-a-leekie soup". < 1296000937 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, I'm going to cry every day unless you kickban cheater99. (if you kickban me, I will continue to whine every day until cheater99 is kickbanned) < 1296000938 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do cocks and hens really taste so different in soup form? < 1296000946 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thru magick < 1296000946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq au vin < 1296000953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not really. < 1296000958 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey you may appreciate :list foo in ghci < 1296000965 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it shows the lines that define foo in a loaded module < 1296000990 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chelliot < 1296000998 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1296001010 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a cheater trappend in an elliott's body! < 1296001019 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trapped, too. < 1296001022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: only for interpreted modules, alas < 1296001028 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296001036 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: clear impersonation, please kickban chelliot < 1296001050 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could compiled modules not have relevant meta data in them? < 1296001058 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you give me a reason you consider adequate I can endeavour to make them come true < 1296001059 0 :amca!~amca@CPE-121-208-84-154.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1296001071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chelliot: _source_ metadata? < 1296001078 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see, he's an idiot. kickban him. < 1296001084 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1296001095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like they're not bloated already < 1296001109 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chelliot is bloated. kickban him. < 1296001114 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: python modules contain source meta data after compilation < 1296001126 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: i'm bloated after molestating you < 1296001128 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chelliot just suggested that Python does anything that could even remotely be considered compilation. < 1296001132 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kickban him. < 1296001152 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: i am michael jackson, you are macaulay culkin < 1296001168 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kickban chelliot because he keeps pinging me < 1296001231 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: you're clearly impersonating windows xp.. < 1296001236 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: he's an exception to the /ignoring people is more annoying than it's worth rule. no one talks to him anyway. go for it. < 1296001270 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh I do ignore him on my main client, it's just that while I can see his messages, I might as well try and get him kickbanned before resorting to ignoring him < 1296001280 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point < 1296001282 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's the only person in here that more than one person ignores < 1296001288 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-20-124.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296001306 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: do your separate split personalities count as separate persons? < 1296001315 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen abpounp < 1296001325 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :76 ++++++++++[>++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>---.+.++++++++++++++.-.++++++.-------.++.>. [189] < 1296001348 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we'd buy you a cake if you got rid of him. < 1296001369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1296001373 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: two cakes? < 1296001381 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: can you bake one cake, to make it three? < 1296001384 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we can do this < 1296001392 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: would pai be okay? < 1296001401 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not good at caek < 1296001416 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1296001418 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: he doesn't want to get fat and depressed like a certain person < 1296001421 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :277 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>-...>>-....<-..<..>..<..>..<..>......<.....<-.>..........>>.......<.<...>...<....>.......<...>..<.......<........>.......>..<.<...>...---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. [898] < 1296001425 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ rubbish < 1296001441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that was underwhelming :D < 1296001442 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am...not fat < 1296001450 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kick him for being a poophead < 1296001457 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1296001475 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not kidding < 1296001480 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck egobot? someone reimplement bf_txtgen plox < 1296001480 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1296001485 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the funny thing about it < 1296001500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Kicking myself out of this madness < 1296001505 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's genetic < 1296001516 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1296001519 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's so slow < 1296001547 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time try reasonable human created heuristics combined by learning with boosting < 1296001584 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a compression algorithm + implement in BF < 1296001605 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296001628 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time that'd be rubbish Mathnerd314 < 1296001630 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it sucks that that would work better < 1296001656 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many strings of text are the shortest BF programs that generate them known? < 1296001689 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the longest string for which the shortest program is known? < 1296001697 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few? like...the first 20 characters tops :P < 1296001710 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that it gets too hard to prove < 1296001713 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1296001716 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 chars? < 1296001717 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolno < 1296001719 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than 5 < 1296001726 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1296001729 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's essentially busy beaver. i think < 1296001732 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was setting an upper bound < 1296001743 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how hard it would be to push that limit < 1296001749 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: exceedingly. < 1296001754 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really do want to see the first nontrivial brainfuck program to deal with < 1296001756 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure that as soon as it's long enough to implement multiplication in, we have no idea < 1296001779 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to get my hands dirty with this :P < 1296001784 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know how to program :/ < 1296002501 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228061206.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296002687 0 :chelliot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296002721 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: #haskell is being annoying < 1296002746 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: want a ban? i could convince copumpkin :D < 1296002752 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1296002756 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1296002758 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd be _fun_ < 1296002766 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: well you could ban Axman and monochrom and a bunch of other peopel < 1296002775 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I could just ban you < 1296002780 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :axman's cool < 1296002782 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1296002787 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quit being a douche < 1296002794 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol what's going on < 1296002801 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyoen is being a turing machineologist < 1296002824 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I am not, and several other people don't believe in it < 1296002832 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I'll have you know that #esoteric has an inalienable right and tradition of talking behind people's backs without consequences < 1296002843 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1296002853 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, copumpkin is a poopy head < 1296002885 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1296002897 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:41:14 Any tips on brainfuck termination checker < 1296002899 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6: are you using Unicode symbols in your source code? < 1296002902 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wut < 1296002903 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1296002903 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong paste < 1296002910 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:41:33 j-invariant: it's theoretically impossible < 1296002915 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:41:41 wow you guys are not that smart < 1296002916 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:41:45 I thought #haskell was really clever < 1296002925 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: protip: being a jerk to someone who said something entirely correct isn't a good idea < 1296002932 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you could have phrased your question better < 1296002948 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :termination checker doesn't imply halting problem < 1296002951 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "any tips on a brainfuck termination checker (that doesn't work in all cases, just a large number)?" < 1296002957 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296002966 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm with j-invariant on this one, but I just think his attitude needs some adjustment < 1296002970 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: since a ton of people don't realise you _can't_ solve the halting problem and really DO want to write a perfect termination checker < 1296002975 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: google it < 1296002977 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to get past people's moron filters < 1296002981 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: google what < 1296003029 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly think he has me on ignore though < 1296003057 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: you wouldn't happen to have copumpkin on ignore? < 1296003148 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Daemon escaped from pentagram < 1296003196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The price is too damned high" < 1296003211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know Jimmy McMillan was on Star Trek < 1296003276 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296003279 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:04 -!- mode/#haskell [+o monochrom] by ChanServ < 1296003280 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:04 -!- degaus [50d448d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.212.72.208] has left #haskell [requested by monochrom (degaus)] < 1296003335 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[08:03:14 PM] it must be more popular < 1296003335 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[08:03:26 PM] because dons never talks about anything else < 1296003356 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1296003376 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I forget that dons actually does cool stuff and isn't just a marketroid < 1296003392 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1296003413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1296003414 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling he puts more people off Haskell than encourages :P < 1296003431 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this "pattern match" thinking that IRC encourages < 1296003443 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so switch to mailing lists < 1296003449 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1296003449 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate mailing lists < 1296003484 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1296003488 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why < 1296003735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1296003747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This permanent seeming action cannot be permanent < 1296003758 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Did EVERYONE DIE < 1296003761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I surprised when shows do permanent-seeming actions < 1296003777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP, not a person (well, a person too) < 1296003806 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what I don't get is why permanent changes are such a problem? < 1296003826 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do they make a whole bunch of episodes in a random order then shuffle them and decide this one goes before that? < 1296003831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, because with this change there would be no show < 1296003842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So clearly it's not actually occuring < 1296003846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still weirds me out < 1296003853 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: DS9 subverts that by having actual plotlines < 1296003870 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: the avoidance of change is mostly so that random syndication works and also so that you don't have to remember tons of canon to write an episode < 1296003891 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and so that people can join late to watch your series < 1296003899 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1296003906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1296003919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I waited a few minute < 1296003920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1296003947 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296004027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: It's a fairly common thing in US TV, especially as shows tend to last several seasons. < 1296004319 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this wonderful vision of a site which shows the nth brainfuck program.. and if anyone submits a proof that it terminates or does not terminate then it moves the n+1th < 1296004326 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody would participate though :/ < 1296004381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8137688?dopt=Abstract < 1296004388 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: why, I wrote a program to get the nth brainfuck program! ;) < 1296004391 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly the numbering was bad < 1296004396 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sorting them would do better < 1296004402 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lexicographically) < 1296004419 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: the point is finding the first brainfuck program that nobody knows how to decide < 1296004432 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe this program is very interesting < 1296004435 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to find it < 1296004468 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably quite big < 1296004498 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know how many months I would have to work on refining and refining a termination checker to find it < 1296004543 0 :td123!~td123@archlinux/trusteduser/td123 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296004548 0 :td123!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1296004559 0 :td123!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a fork bomb for brainfuck? < 1296004570 0 :td123!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even possible? < 1296004578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1296004579 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use brainfork < 1296004580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very no. < 1296004604 0 :td123!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1296004631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have trouble with the Y-combinator < 1296004662 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the Y-combinator is simple got any questions? < 1296004691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bomb() -> spawn(fun bomb/1, []), spawn(fun bomb/1, []). < 1296004699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION probably screwed that up
< 1296004701 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats erlang.. < 1296004726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1296004736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with Erlang? < 1296004756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I want to know how to do that without the named function, which is why I asked after the Y combinator < 1296004775 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it can be written in eralng < 1296004781 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably] < 1296004852 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1296005088 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottXP: Example of how stupid people are: < 1296005089 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:34 < j-invariant> Does anyone know any good software for C which tries to decide if your program terminates or not < 1296005092 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:34 < j-invariant> I need a free software < 1296005095 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:34 < manizzle> ? < 1296005097 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:34 < CaZe> lol? < 1296005099 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:35 < CaZe> I think Turing wrote one. < 1296005107 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer science is over < 1296005109 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the end < 1296005127 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the people that hang around in programming channels on IRC don't know anything < 1296005179 0 :td123!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296005359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, maybe CaZe was, you know, JOKING < 1296005361 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it's sophomoric computer science < 1296005364 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people have heard of turing < 1296005387 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they hear "halts" and parrot "impossible" < 1296005397 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should use rewrite systems instead of BF < 1296005401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soundfonts suck at strings X_X < 1296005404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1296005430 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1296005438 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1296005444 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://spikedmath.com/374.html < 1296005455 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, gregor, that's because ADSR fail < 1296005463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, did I fall for what copumpkin said idiots fall for? < 1296005465 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stoped caring about spiked math when it made that stupid mistake a while back < 1296005467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dies a little inside
< 1296005475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid mistake? < 1296005490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: fine. but give me a hint how to do this one plox? < 1296005551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, ok, what's the thing? That you're asking for programs written in C? Or that you said "tries"? < 1296005611 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1296005642 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296005784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: VSTi's do strings OK, but it's difficult to mix and match X_X < 1296005856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1296005861 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1296006219 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i figured out the puzzle < 1296006243 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do i do arbitrary precision arithmetic to calculate the actual answer < 1296007097 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296007665 0 :Adiemus!~Adiemus@dslb-088-065-017-180.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296007750 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296007923 0 :Supersonic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1296007957 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://spikedmath.com/358.html haha that's a good one < 1296008095 0 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296009091 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1296010191 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1296010196 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jackd WHY < 1296010197 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1296010899 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1296010946 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why must DSSI/VST/Rosegarden be 100% non-automatable X_X < 1296010957 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like anything that I can't type "make" to build < 1296012367 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1296012422 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD I hate GUIs. < 1296012424 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HATE HATE HATE < 1296012430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's my goddamn shell. < 1296012507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't *hate* GUIs. < 1296012530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have yet to see one I'm actually enthusiastic about. < 1296012557 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a GUI IDE I didn't hate once. < 1296012729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clicks the Build menu
< 1296012738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clicks Compile and Run ( Ctrl-F5 )
< 1296012754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION completely neglects the existence of keyboard shortcuts
< 1296012789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess that's not as not knowing Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V < 1296012794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My a key is being weird < 1296012806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't allow crumbs to get near the keybord < 1296013906 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296014312 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296014422 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Google Chrome have a maximum line length for received data? < 1296014630 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha < 1296014647 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant didnt understand that the halting problem isnt a problem with turing machines alone? ahahaha < 1296014670 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296014797 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296015142 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no < 1296015155 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it! < 1296015167 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't read enough of the discussion then < 1296015183 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only read a tiny bit of it < 1296015189 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :summary: he is bad at asking for what he really wants < 1296015207 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what i did see was his agreeing that it was about halting behavior, but then complaining that hes not talking about turing machines < 1296015214 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is everyone talking about turing machines < 1296015218 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wont they stop < 1296015224 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296015234 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he wasn't looking for a halting decider < 1296015251 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was looking for a halting predictor for specific languages < 1296015279 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1296015319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, he was wanting something entirely doable: a function that accurately returns {Halts, Doesn't halt, I don't know}. < 1296015369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there something along the lines of algorithmically determining that such a thing is such a thing is also impossible? < 1296015430 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rice's Thm < 1296015439 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1296015442 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not determining < 1296015444 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deciding < 1296015482 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deciding* whether an algorithm has non-trivial property X is impossible < 1296015494 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make as many recognizers as you want < 1296015521 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love that its decidable that some things are undecidable < 1296015544 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because decidability of non-trivial properties is a trivial property < 1296015547 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that you can prove that you cant prove something < 1296015552 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all non-trivial properties are undecidable < 1296015580 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's possible to prove the existence of unprovable propositions < 1296015619 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are provably unprovable propositions about that proposition as well < 1296015641 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like some power tower of provable unprovability! < 1296015658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Provably unprovable propositions can be false [I hope] < 1296015674 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1296015704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People seem to talk about provably unprovable, but true, propositions a lot < 1296015720 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well < 1296015752 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any provably unprovably false proposition is a negation of a provably unprovably true proposition! < 1296015791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it's possible that there are provably unprovable, but potentially disprovable, statements? < 1296015792 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you even know what you're saying? < 1296015793 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1296015803 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes. < 1296015807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect Sgeo is word-vomiting. < 1296015818 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can provide you with logical forms in at least two semantic formalisms. < 1296015826 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no certainly not < 1296015841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a statement is disprovable then its negation is provable < 1296015851 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since disproof of P is proof of not P < 1296015862 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the initial statement provable < 1296015867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But its negation doesn't necessarily need to be provable < 1296015870 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so its false that its provably unprovable < 1296015871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is wht I meant < 1296015885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERM < 1296015887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ofcourse that could just be a proof that leads to a contradiction! < 1296015888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT < 1296015895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its inconsistent but complete! < 1296015914 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Gödel's sentence is both true and not provable. It doesn't even make sense to talk about sentences that are false and not provable... < 1296015918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a statement is disprovable, then its negation is provable. But its negation doesn't need to be disprovable, does it? < 1296015934 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we dont know if its sentence is true or not, quintopia < 1296015951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, A^~A is false and, assuming consistency, not provable < 1296015993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We shouldn't be able to prove that a sentence is a Godel sentence... I think < 1296016004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be tantamount to a proof of the sentence? < 1296016021 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: disprovable(S) = provable(~S) = ~provable(S) < 1296016042 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore disprovable(~S) = ~provable(~S) = ~disprovable(S) < 1296016064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if S is disprovable, its negation must NOT be disprovable < 1296016082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how you got provable(~S) = ~provable(S) < 1296016095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hm < 1296016105 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we can agree that disprovable(S) = provable(~S) < 1296016108 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm working off a different definition of "provable" than.. is correct < 1296016111 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that disprovable(S) = ~provable(S) < 1296016127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By provable, I meant not proven to not be provable < 1296016141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily true < 1296016142 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes we do. G translates to "G is not provable in this system" Assume it is false. then, G is provable in this system. therefore, G is true. Contradiction. Now, assume it is true. We can't prove it, but there is no contradiction. Hence, it must be true. < 1296016143 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats circular < 1296016146 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus nonsensical < 1296016158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: It does not follow that something being disprovable means that something is *not* provable. < 1296016176 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats what disprovable means! < 1296016188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, wait, dur. Sorry. I'm stupid. Carry on. < 1296016188 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not! < 1296016199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think augur's definition of provable relies on the provable statement being tre < 1296016201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1296016205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what was headaching me < 1296016214 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends i suppose on whether you mean "dis-" in the metaphysical sense or the epistemological sense < 1296016242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just, forget everything I said. I think. < 1296016254 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can say "disprovable" as in we dont know whether or not something is true, but we know for certain that we could find out SOMEHOW < 1296016259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, did you fall into the same trap I did? < 1296016259 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by brute force < 1296016265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Who the hell are you? < 1296016284 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can also say "disprovable" as in we have a way to disprove this proposition. < 1296016350 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on the one hand, "P = NP" is a provable/disprovable proposition < 1296016369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It doesn't even make sense to talk about sentences that are false and not provable..." < 1296016374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This STILL makes no sense < 1296016374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we dont know if its true or false, but the truth or falsity of it is (afaik) possible to prove < 1296016396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quoted text, I mean < 1296016404 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other hand, "P = NP" is neither provable nor disprovable, in the sense that we dont have the ability to give you that proof right now < 1296016412 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this is a fact about the notion of "ability" < 1296016426 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same semantic ambiguity relates to modal verbs like "can" < 1296016467 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1296016796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just True? < 1296016803 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1296016810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Bool? < 1296016920 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so soundfonts can do woodwinds decently, and brass acceptably, VSTi's can do strings quite well but are a huge pain in the arse, and bleh. < 1296017022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too tired for this shist
< 1296017025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundfonts? < 1296017062 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundFont < 1296017371 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1296017441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: See http://codu.org/music/e/superturing/superturing.ogg :P < 1296017549 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :able to leap tall call stacks in a single bound, its: Super-Turing! < 1296017572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The theme music for SuperTuring, the newest (and best) superhero. Spider-Man may have spider powers, and Superman may have super-strength, but only SuperTuring can solve the halting problem! " < 1296017640 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1296017678 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that music sucks btw < 1296017746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Is that Prelude in a different key on the harp? Seriously, WTF? < 1296017783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, electric guitar and MIDI = OUCH < 1296017794 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Electric guitar and VSTi also = ouch. < 1296017808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, that's not Prelude at all, not all arpeggios are Prelude. < 1296017830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH. < 1296017839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY UEMATSU INVENTED THE ARPEGGIO. < 1296017941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ITYM "That music is so awesome it changed my life forever" < 1296017954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1296017962 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont speak obscure acronym < 1296017973 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I Think You Mean" is not an obscure acronym < 1296018202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a computer which is as fast as Superman to convert Celsius/Fahrenheit? < 1296018218 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SuperTuring transcends clock speed. < 1296018263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can SuperTuring decide whether SuperTuring will ever die? < 1296018272 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1296018290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, SuperTuring is SuperSuperTurinng < 1296018293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How incredible < 1296018302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot have a computer like SuperTuring, because no actually built physical computer is even quite Turing, either. < 1296018315 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i can assure you i didnt mean that. < 1296018338 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I am quite certain that you did. < 1296018343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1296018655 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want you do today? Make a linear-scale music, meaning that the notes are 100Hz, 200Hz, 300Hz, 400Hz, 500Hz, and so on. < 1296018735 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296018736 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do so < 1296018797 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: He meant "this music is so awesome it changed my life forever", right? < 1296018814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Feh. < 1296018873 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have two non-fans X-P < 1296019255 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296019319 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: http://codu.org/music/e/superturing/superturing.ogg < 1296019369 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY EARS!!!! ;P < 1296019445 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty cool so far, actually < 1296019496 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Farewell < 1296019693 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels himself powering up
< 1296019706 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION solves the halting problem with ease
< 1296019734 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION returns to normal
< 1296019775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all but the true SuperTuring, the effect is temporary. < 1296019849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the beginning sounds like you stole it from Falcon's Eye < 1296019868 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering that I have no idea what that is, I'm gonna go with "no" < 1296019879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the similar instruments < 1296019917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/jtpelto2/nethack.html < 1296020598 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can you write any John Stump style music? < 1296021857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What size of chapter headings should I use (from \magstep1 to \magstep5)? < 1296022218 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1296023364 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296024209 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296025350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for fun, looking at allocations during 2010 (IPv4 addresses in /32s, IPv6 addresses in /64s): < 1296025393 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA (direct): 0 IPv4, 0 IPv6 < 1296025563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Well, yes... < 1296025572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA has ceased to do direct allocations. < 1296025910 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFRINIC: IPv4: 8 520 960, 446 677 516 288 IPv6. < 1296025931 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296026017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LACNIC: 17 278 976 IPv4, 197 569 937 408 IPv6. < 1296026029 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296026166 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIPE NCC: 56 761 248 IPv4, 8 027 328 217 088 IPv6. < 1296026220 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARIN: 45 240 832 IPv4, 2 508 420 284 416 IPv6. < 1296026281 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC: 120 926 208 IPv4, 13 920 020 267 008 IPv6. < 1296026289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC now at 1.38 /8s... < 1296026448 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All RIRs combined except APNIC: 127 802 016 IPv4, 11 179 995 955 200 IPv6. < 1296026559 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So APNIC allocated 48.6% of the total IPv4 space allocated last year and 55.5% of the total IPv6 space allocated last year. < 1296026678 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the reasons for relatively low amount of IPv6 allocations might be that LACNIC region has extensive LIR system and some of those (especially Brazil) hold amazing amounts of IPv6 address space. < 1296026788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems kinda odd that it's that low for APNIC, also. < 1296026821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that much of Asia is actually on the ball with IPv6 adoption. < 1296026826 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually only brazil there holds amazing amount of IPv6 address space, but that number is really amazing: Almost the same amount as rest of the world _combined_. < 1296026860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, end user IPv6 has been easily available in Japan for 11 years now... < 1296026864 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err... 13.9 billion is more than rest of the world combined... < 1296026877 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they are allocating IPv6 a lot. < 1296026881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang. < 1296026895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all those numbers are going to be shooting way the hell up in the next couple of years. < 1296026898 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, 13.9 trillion < 1296026961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, we'll probably see much less allocation of IPv6, relatively speaking, just because even a /48 is a *gigantic* allocation for anyone not actually running an ISP. < 1296026989 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard for ISP is /32. And large ISP get blocks even larger than that... < 1296027008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know. < 1296027095 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even IPv6 /32 is more network addresses than there are total host addresses in the entiere IPv4... < 1296027131 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296027183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv4 is a /96. < 1296027212 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's IPv4 mentality... :-) < 1296027226 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296027247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, really, it's ::ffff:0:0:0/96. :P < 1296027248 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that I said "network address" about IPv6 and "host address" about IPv4. < 1296027256 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that block. < 1296027299 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some magic properties as address in some TCP/IP stacks (at least the one in Linux)... < 1296027351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's intended to be a hook for magic properties in interacting between IPv4 and IPv6. < 1296027588 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ::ffff:0:0/96; with 0:0:0 you'd have 48 bits of zeroes. < 1296027601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, ::ffff:0.0.0.0/96, but that's just ugly. < 1296027610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, balls. < 1296027624 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1296027643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's actually intended to have 48 bits of zeroes. (RFC 2765) < 1296027686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's the IPv4-translated block. < 1296027688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though ::ffff:0:0/96 is *another* form of IPv4 onto IPv6 mapping. < 1296027694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that one more. < 1296027713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, the transition methods are non-trivial. < 1296027727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is what an IPv6 socket that has accepted an IPv4 connection returns for the peer address. < 1296027909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole "IPv6 wildcard-address-bound sockets also accept IPv4" thing is very messy. On Linux the port addresses are shared, so if you bind to IN6ADDR_ANY:1234 you can't bind to INADDR_ANY:1234 later, unless you setsockopt IPV6_V6ONLY on the v6 socket; on Windows it's similar except V6ONLY is set by default; on OS X you can bind to both, and the magical map-to-the-v6-socket only happens if there is no corresponding bound v4 socket. < 1296027978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think on some BSDs they don't (by default) map v4 connections to IN6ADDR_ANY v6 sockets at all. < 1296028010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solaris at least treated those things completely separately, IIRC. < 1296028092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you generally have to listen-an-accept on two sockets with some sort of select/poll thing, except that on some systems binding the second socket won't work. < 1296028295 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296028330 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296028429 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296028457 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g231048100.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296028765 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1296028775 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there way to override IPV6_V6ONLY on per-socket basis? < 1296028799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1296028800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1296028800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, with setsockopt before binding. < 1296028812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think the whole option is completely portable. < 1296028892 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anything that doesn't support it is probably either 1) Totally obsolete, 2) Windows (with who knows what TCP stack) or 3) Doesn't support IPv6 anyway. < 1296028907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does exist on Linux, Windows and OS X, though, so I guess you can be portable to those three by explicitly either setting it + binding both v4 and v6 separately, or unsetting it and binding just a v6 wildcard socket. < 1296028919 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know IPv6 has magic properties. Actually I don't know a lot about IPv6 in general. < 1296029004 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many addresses does an end user need? < 1296029155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 quintillion (short-scale) addresses is what you tend to get. At least that's what 3G specs to be given to each phone, for personal-area-networking stuff like that. You know, if you happen to be carrying 18 quintillion other devices that need to share the link. < 1296029218 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems too much. Even 2048 addresses should be enough for someone with many devices. There are also port numbers, too. < 1296029226 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if SLAAC is to be used... < 1296029303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is SLAAC? < 1296029314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stateless address autoconfiguration" < 1296029368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that thing that lets hosts automagically pick their addresses. The router sends a 64-bit prefix, and the host builds the other 64 bits out of (usually) its MAC address + fffe in the middle. < 1296029471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some commands that IPv4 programs will work with IPv6 not requiring a change? < 1296029529 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296029629 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296029771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what "commands" here refers to. There's the getaddrinfo() socket API function; if you use that to translate addresses to names (and don't explicitly specify AF_INET or AF_INET6, but use AF_UNSPEC) things will mostly work on both IPv4 and IPv6 hosts. And then there are those tricky translation mechanisms. < 1296029880 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean some things like that, and some API command to tell it to make a connection with a hostname and port number, and those things. < 1296029930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well. getaddrinfo() takes a host and a port (string, actually; you can give it names in addition to numbers) and returns a list of address structures you can give to connect(). < 1296029978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lunchtime here.) < 1296030127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But IPv6 addresses can have colons. So, maybe what could be done to fix that, is have the local DNS program to check if it ends with ".ipv6" and if so, will change the dots to colons and then resolve it to the corresponding IPv6 address. Is such things exists/possible? < 1296030175 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs designed for IPv4 will probably not accept colons in the address, so you would have to do something like that? < 1296030363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you give "a:b:c:d:e:f:g:h" style of address to getaddrinfo, it'll return a IPv6 address back; of course usually you'd just use names. < 1296030424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What often breaks though is v4-oriented programs that take a "host:port" string; they might not handle numeric v6 addresses right. < 1296030460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is the "[a:b:c:d:e:f:g:h]:port" format standardized anywhere? < 1296030488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the "host:port" string is what I am refering to, that is why you should have some local DNS program that converts forms with dots if it ends with ".ipv6", so that IPv4 programs will continue to work with IPv6. < 1296030547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could do that; haven't heard of anyone doing it though. < 1296030729 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296030755 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes programs supporting IPv6 are broken with at least numeric addresses: 1) Bugs in some resolver routines, 2) Bugs in handling the [addr]:port notation. < 1296030827 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296031001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be easier to get right if they would have made getaddrinfo support "host:port", "v4addr:port" and "[v6addr]:port" style strings internally. < 1296031283 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best way to get an image of a remote container? < 1296031300 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't scp cuz that follows symbolic links < 1296031321 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar over ssh perhaps? < 1296031326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used that. < 1296031326 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, i have it set up to not allow connections as root < 1296031330 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howzat work? < 1296031339 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar the whole system into itself? < 1296031413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ssh host tar blah-to-make-a-tarball > ball_of.tar", vaguely speaking. < 1296031435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As non-root it might not be so easy. < 1296031476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done tar-over-netcat too, but that's something you'd probably only do in a local, safeish network. < 1296031496 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have any ability to run things as root, you can "tar blah-to-make-a-tarball | ssh somewhere blah-to-save-somewhere" < 1296031517 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm doing the latter < 1296031519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's tar-over-netcat-over-ssh-forwarded-port. < 1296031575 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just making a tarball and then downloading it really < 1296031594 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as tarring the folder you're creating the tar inside doesn't break things... < 1296031714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc -l -p 1234 > ball.tar + (in another term) ssh -R 1234:localhost:1234 host + sudo + tar blah | nc localhost:1234 is one way. < 1296031773 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ha, it does break things < 1296031791 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to not save the tar, but pipe it directly over the network < 1296031799 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1296031803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "nc localhost 1234" I guess. Netcat command line details depend on the variant. < 1296031807 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also i need to disconnect irc first < 1296031817 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1296031819 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1296031825 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you have to? < 1296031850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pipe it (base64-encoded) here on channel, and then extract from the clog logs?-) < 1296031855 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking because the log files might update as it is read < 1296031858 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1296031865 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is that command you posted fizzie < 1296031903 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was four commands (on two different hosts) :P < 1296031903 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything like netcat that can receive multiple connections at the same time, send stdin to all of them, and send data received from all of them to stdout? < 1296031910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just tar-over-netcat except fed through a SSH port forwarding for safety. < 1296031928 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296031965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not that I know of, but it should be called netoctocat or something if it did exist. < 1296031965 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1296032004 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are opening a netcat receiver on my end, and then creating a tunnel for that port, and then connecting to the remote serving and tarring to netcat over that tunnel < 1296032027 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296032135 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nc -l -p is an error < 1296032145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on your netcat. < 1296032159 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man nc says basically you can't use those options together < 1296032171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some take "-l port", some "-l -p port". < 1296032184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME nc - TCP/IP swiss army knife < 1296032184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNOPSIS nc [-options] hostname port[s] [ports] ... nc -l -p port [-options] [hostname] [port] < 1296032192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine does this. < 1296032194 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1296032344 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar without -f sends output to stdout? < 1296032363 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it sends it to the content of the TAPE env variable... < 1296032403 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1296032407 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdout if it isn't set < 1296032472 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :localhost:1234: forward host lookup failed: Unknown host < 1296032525 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean i'm blocking 1234 on my end? < 1296032527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that should've been "nc localhost 1234", not "nc localhost:1234". < 1296032534 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1296032572 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet it's working < 1296032685 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296032764 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it errors out D: < 1296032820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes. < 1296032908 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What error? < 1296032949 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1296032961 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just got the "error exit delayed from previous errors" message < 1296033127 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296033225 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296033237 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i watched that time < 1296033248 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some socket ignoreds and a file changed as we read it < 1296033256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296033391 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do i need to backup in order to preserve my iptables config? isn't it like iptables-save filename? < 1296033449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and ip6tables-save too if you have any. < 1296033471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "iptables-save > filename", I think. < 1296033823 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231050114.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296033889 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1296034166 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this netcatting thing is fun ... but there's no way to tell when the file has finished sending :P < 1296034215 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i think i backed up the things i care about now... < 1296034427 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296035273 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1296037972 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db411eb.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296038416 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transfer rate should drop a lot after it finishes... :-) < 1296038418 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296038471 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g231049235.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296039535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1296039634 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1296039737 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296039944 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296043623 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha... "That's good news - we need to make sure we have a /3 for both the Moon and Mars colonies. ;)". < 1296043662 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah... I think RIR-class notional allocation (/7) would be enough for the Moon... :-) < 1296043717 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are currently two of those free... < 1296043904 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, not 2 but 10. < 1296044056 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296044195 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296044943 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1296045271 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296045371 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296046471 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296046571 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296046997 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296047670 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296047770 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296047895 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296048037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296048438 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296048825 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296048870 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296048969 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296050069 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296050167 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1296050994 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1296051403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296051566 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296051595 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-130.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1296051849 0 :j-invariant!~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant JOIN :#esoteric < 1296051919 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296052123 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1296052485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can you relink me that interix iso? < 1296052491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refound it but it's only downloading at 20 kilobytes / sec < 1296052501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking i might be on a bad mirror < 1296052539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:42:41 • Sgeo clicks the Build menu < 1296052540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:42:50 • Sgeo clicks Compile and Run ( Ctrl-F5 ) < 1296052540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:43:06 • Sgeo completely neglects the existence of keyboard shortcuts < 1296052550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to something but I can't wrIte. < 1296052676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:37:34 Sgeo: disprovable(S) = provable(~S) = ~provable(S) < 1296052681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: excluded-middle scum < 1296052796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ superturing hate < 1296052798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you're not human < 1296052799 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disprovable(S) is not the same as ~provable(S). < 1296052800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you're not human < 1296052877 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: in constructive logic, I can't prove double negation elimination or LEM, but that doesn't make them false < 1296053035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCLUDED MIDDLE IS FALSE ///HARDCORE CONSTRUCTIVISM/// < 1296053052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, OK, so any intuitionistic logic + ~LEM is almost certainly inconsistent.) < 1296053066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:56:57 well, just making a tarball and then downloading it really < 1296053074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if you did it like "ssh host tar foo >blah", you could skip the downloading < 1296053084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having it stream directly to your disk over the network < 1296053091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yeah augur is full of shit :P < 1296053102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disprovable(S) = provable(~S) < 1296053106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it ends there < 1296053114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disprovable(S) also => ~provable(S) < 1296053126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not = < 1296053133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~provable(S) does _not_ => provable(~S) < 1296053135 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296053137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's => not <=> aka = < 1296053177 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1296053183 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beep boop < 1296053185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: hi, you said wrong things < 1296053191 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: im not a constructivist < 1296053195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you aren't < 1296053195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: disprovable(S) = provable(~S) = ~provable(S) < 1296053196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is plain false < 1296053198 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also i didnt < 1296053201 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its entirely true < 1296053202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you did < 1296053204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not < 1296053206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1296053212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are statements where ~provable(S) and ~provable(~S) < 1296053217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which violate what you said < 1296053236 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesnt < 1296053244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: disprovable(S) = provable(~S). provable(~S) implies ~provable(S). < 1296053250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are NOT the same < 1296053257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: tell augur why he's wrong kthx < 1296053266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too early to deal with stupid statements < 1296053270 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this depends on the meaning of provable, which we commented on afterwords < 1296053274 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please read those comments < 1296053281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no, it doesn't, there's exactly one meaning of provable < 1296053291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has nothing to do with whether humans have managed to prove it yet < 1296053305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's exactly one meaning of disprovable, "negation is provable" < 1296053305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, well i was speaking in english < 1296053309 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in precise terms < 1296053311 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1296053316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: disprovable(S) = provable(~S) = ~provable(S) < 1296053318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that's some english < 1296053325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: the precise terms were exactly what matter < 1296053327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1296053334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo was going on about godel and all the time you were talking about ... < 1296053339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statements that people haven't proven yet? < 1296053347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what you were even talking about tbh < 1296053374 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i even gave a specific counterexample ... ~provable(G) and ~provable(~G) < 1296053401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bai < 1296053434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: "bai"? < 1296053463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think augur just admitted he lost the argument < 1296053601 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:48 < elliott> 04:37:34 Sgeo: disprovable(S) = provable(~S) = ~provable(S) < 1296053613 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AHEM* provable_Th(S) < 1296053618 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, you may resume < 1296053626 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where Th is an axiomatic theory) < 1296053633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: SORRY EXCUSE ME BY "DISPROVABLE", AUGUR MEANT "NOT YET PROVED OR DISPROVED BY HUMANS" APPARENTLY < 1296053638 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54 < elliott> EXCLUDED MIDDLE IS FALSE ///HARDCORE CONSTRUCTIVISM/// < 1296053639 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LOL < 1296053677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: i also follow the axiom of LIFE < 1296053678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~Choice < 1296053682 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1296053686 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1296053687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of my deep religious beliefs < 1296053984 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181128136.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296054283 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haie < 1296054603 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296054633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296054650 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did augur actually admit he was wrong? < 1296054657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well he said "bai". < 1296054778 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, he admitted that he didn't have an argument and ran away because he is an intellectual coward. < 1296055008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously! < 1296055118 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so I'm being bitter, but he's done this before to me and cpressey. < 1296055182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I *do* need someone to blame for making cpressey leave that isn't me ... < 1296055211 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: me! < 1296055225 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, it was months before that. < 1296055226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Yeah, I blame you. < 1296055232 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1296055249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: DRIVE AWAY THE MOST FAMOUSEST MEMBER OF THE ESOLANG COMMUNITY, WOULD YOU < 1296055257 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous how? < 1296055274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: http://catseye.tc/ < 1296055277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: inventor of Befunge < 1296055281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :among many, many others < 1296055288 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1296055289 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just said something stupid which we told him was wrong, and he basically stuck his fingers in his ears and sang "LALALALALAI'MRIGHT" until we got tired and gave up, then gloated about winning the argument. < 1296055320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think augur has a tendency to ... respond to questions using precise terminology by assuming they mean something else entirely. < 1296055343 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case it wasn't even that. < 1296055349 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1296055365 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said IIRC that a TM that forbade one specific program couldn't be TC, which was blatantly wrong. < 1296055394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid < 1296055404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you forbid a countable set of programs then maybe. < 1296055409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(countably infinite) < 1296055428 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even then. < 1296055448 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need computational equivalence to do it so that a UTM was completely impossible. < 1296055472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: It's arguable whether the language L = {a Brainfuck interpreter} is Turing-complete. < 1296055502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: L could be another language (say, Brainfuck) with a countably infinite set of programs removed (all apart from that one program). < 1296055521 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, I know. But the point stands that just adding steadily more complex nops would make it uncomputable to actually create such a TM. < 1296055526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, it's TC by the "has a program that implements a UTM" definition, but not by the "has one program for every Turing Machine". < 1296055542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The latter is the original definition of a UTM generalised to arbitrary languages.) < 1296055551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Eh? Erm, whatever. < 1296055633 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, i.e. that you can't actually *prove* that an arbitrary program is equivalent to the forbidden one(s), so it's not possible to prevent TCness without making it superturing. < 1296055651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I was assuming it was just syntactic forbiddenness. < 1296055658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., if prog in forbiddens: slkjgsdkhjl < 1296055692 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but that's not going to stop TCness either. < 1296055707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom__Hoover: It's arguable whether the language L = {a Brainfuck interpreter} is Turing-complete. < 1296055717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Brainfuck minus a countable subset of programs, and I don't think it's Turing-complete. < 1296055723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qeeeeeeeed < 1296055728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*countably infinite < 1296055784 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, i.e. it's just if prog /= : stop else ? < 1296055814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: yes < 1296055815 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1296055824 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have a bf interp in haskell < 1296055851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it has never been done < 1296055852 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe Is hould do lambda calculsu instead < 1296055857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically impossible :D < 1296055865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: lc is probably easier to reason about in Coq, but < 1296055868 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, pikhq has that super-optimising x86(-64?) compiler that he still hasn't shown me. < 1296055869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think harder to check termination for? < 1296055873 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ኣ�ኡኣ�� ዶኦ ኣቡ��ዖ� �ሎኣድ� < 1296055883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: bf seems easier to check termination < 1296055887 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell one would be a nice accomplishment < 1296055896 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or prolog < 1296055904 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hm? < 1296055924 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: do it anyway, just for the challenge < 1296055933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"challenge"? < 1296055934 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, LC or BF? < 1296055940 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: do what? :) < 1296055941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf interps are not a challenge < 1296055955 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LC, perhaps, simply due to having to deal with alpha equivalence. < 1296055986 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd be a challenge for me, who knows no haskell < 1296056003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: you don't have to < 1296056006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :de bruijn or hoas < 1296056014 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, yes. < 1296056020 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's trivial. < 1296056025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just substitute directly when applying < 1296056058 0 :elliottXP!~Elliott@91.105.119.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296056113 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:44 < Phantom__Hoover> But that's trivial. < 1296056119 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that the point?? < 1296056168 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant, it seems unrelated to his point, which was anyway poorly articulated and was never supported with anything approaching that argument. < 1296056203 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't decide whether to use brainfuck or lambda < 1296056239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: brainfuck < 1296056249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: I have no idea how you'd write an LC termination checker < 1296056256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck at least has several easy halting types < 1296056267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the extended euclidean thing for a certain type of loop < 1296056282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could detect e.g. < 1296056283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[--] < 1296056285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as looping < 1296056286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: really though < 1296056290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: use esotope-bfc's output < 1296056298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: it detects certain simple infinite loops for you < 1296056301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and e.g. can figure out arithmetic < 1296056305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: and also gives you While loops and the like < 1296056898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.04:14:52:59 hello :) < 1296056898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.04:14:53:31 --- nick: cpressey_ -> cpressey < 1296056898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.04:16:16:25 yep < 1296056898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.07:19:57:21 heatsink: re type inference: the dragon book contains a good description & algorithm < 1296056899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.07:19:58:42 np < 1296056901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.07:19:58:57 it still took me a loooong time to figure out exactly what was going on with it :) < 1296056904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.07:19:59:20 replacing the greek letters with T1, T2, T3 and walking myself through abunch of examples seemed to help < 1296056907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.07:20:02:47 no < 1296056909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04.11.07:20:03:44 word-final :) < 1296056912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either cpressey was lagged that day, or clog has ignores < 1296056962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1296056967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1296057011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:33:53 so uh whats the norm discussion here? < 1296057011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:34:06 nothin' < 1296057011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:34:22 This channel isn't active most of the time < 1296057011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:34:33 lets make it active! < 1296057014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK IT'S SGEO'S HERO < 1296057029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1296057034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:35:33 i'm working on stack effect inference for postfix languages < 1296057034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:35:48 * heatsink has no idea what that is < 1296057034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:36:05 what is that? < 1296057034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:36:21 eg, the stack effect of 2 2 + is [ 0 | 1 ] because it takes no values from the stack, but leaves one < 1296057034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:36:38 the stack effect of dup * is [ 1 | 1 ], because it takes one value, duplicates it, multiplies the two duplicates, to yield one value < 1296057037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :history in the making < 1296057084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:46:47 What language syntax do you use? Is it taken from an existing language? < 1296057084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:47:02 factor < 1296057084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:47:51 Hey, the inventor of factor is named slava too! what a coincidence! < 1296057093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:47:57 ;) < 1296057146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:31:20 not related, but mooz could perhaps say something here about his "random programs" experiments. < 1296057148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:31:40 it's esoteric enough. < 1296057153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:32:14 apparently he keeps finding composite-number-factoring algorithms at a surprisingly high rate. :p < 1296057153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that a joke...? < 1296057227 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1296057334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:01:00 hi all! i'm first time here with linux < 1296057334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:02:39 (i hadn't linux before) < 1296057334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:02:39 client is sirc i hope? < 1296057334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:02:39 no < 1296057334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:02:39 it's something x-chat < 1296057335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:02:39 but i don't know anything about this < 1296057378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol nooga hasn't changed since 2004 < 1296057393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:55:00 mmmm befunge < 1296057393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:56:58 My girlfriend complains when I speak of scheme and lambdas in bed, maybe I should try talking about befunge. < 1296057393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:04:19 Maybe you should speak of brainfuck. < 1296057393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:00 I find incomprehensible rectangular blocks of befunge code very exciting, maybe she would also? < 1296057442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:35:06 --- quit: ChanServ (ACK! SIGSEGV!) < 1296057444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::wat: < 1296058189 0 :elliottXP!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296058972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO WANTS TO JOIN MY EPIC LOG-READING PROJECT < 1296058979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover?! Er... clog?! < 1296058982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE?! < 1296058986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEROBRINE? < 1296059007 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, NEVER < 1296059051 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 14:06:00 I find incomprehensible rectangular blocks of befunge code very exciting, maybe she would also? � clearly she did, assuming she's the one he married. < 1296059060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The secret to a happy marriage. < 1296059073 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goddamn it, I was just about to say that. < 1296060137 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296060183 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty unusual fetish < 1296060453 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@86.241.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296060617 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296060638 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: two points. 1) by disprovable i mean "in principle could be proven or disproven but not necessarily already so", as in "P = NP is a (dis)provable proposition, but we haven't yet found the (dis)proof" < 1296060640 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2) "bai" was meant as "i wont be responding because im in class" < 1296060657 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, er, what? < 1296060660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) that isn't what disprovable means. < 1296060666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disprovable is a formal term meaning "negation is provable". < 1296060672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provable means "proof exists" not "proof has been found". < 1296060683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't argue, because it simply /isn't/ what disprovable means in the context of logic < 1296060692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my definition is the one Sgeo_ meant too, as it is the only relevant one < 1296060697 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i already agreed to this on grounds that theres a muddling of non-technical language < 1296060698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the context of goedel's incompleteness theorems < 1296060698 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, can you just clarify here that you no longer think that provable(¬P) = ¬provable(P)? < 1296060827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1296060845 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually i also think that provable(~P) -> ~provable(P) < 1296060853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true. < 1296060859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ~provable(P) does not -> provable(~P). < 1296060866 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reverse might be true if we have a closed world assumption < 1296060871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore provable(~P) =/= ~provable(P) < 1296060873 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i think is necessarily what we dont have < 1296060875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that's not true < 1296060877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: consider the axiom of choice in ZF < 1296060879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right < 1296060925 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUu < 1296060945 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this also, i suppose hinges on what "dis-" means. obviously if we dont take "dis-" to be analysable in this context, fine < 1296060963 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*COUGH COUGH* *AHEM* provable_Th(S) < 1296060967 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think its true, in common parlance at least, that "dis-" is negation < 1296060969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: :) < 1296060972 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Th being the axiomatic theory S is provable in < 1296060984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: in logic, disprovable(P) means provable(~P). < 1296060988 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure sure < 1296060991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just not arguable terminology < 1296060999 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say things like "provable" or "disprovable" without respect to an axiom system you will end up writing a book like GEB one day < 1296061000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean that like < 1296061003 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhh < 1296061009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr.v. dis·proved, dis·prov·ing, dis·proves < 1296061009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To prove to be false, invalid, or in error; refute. < 1296061010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disprovable (not comparable) < 1296061010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capable of being disproved. < 1296061020 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its impossible to prove that P, i think that constitutes a disproof of P < 1296061025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: lol! < 1296061027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at logic < 1296061027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1296061029 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonononono < 1296061033 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:07 < elliott> augur: in logic, disprovable(P) means provable(~P). < 1296061034 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction < 1296061039 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not < 1296061041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1296061042 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In logic, disprovable(P) is meaninless < 1296061044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: in Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory, the Axiom of Choice is neither provable nor disprovable. < 1296061048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it is neither true nor false. < 1296061050 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In logic, disprovable_Th(P) has meaning though < 1296061052 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, obviously this is true only in certain systems < 1296061054 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes ok < 1296061056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: both ZFC and ZF~C are valid. < 1296061059 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of completeness < 1296061064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no, it's true in no sufficiently powerful consistent system < 1296061064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1296061067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: shut up :) < 1296061079 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the completeness<->satisfiable equivalence < 1296061087 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but in a consistent system, either proposition is either probably true or provably false < 1296061089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your axiom system must be consistent < 1296061098 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you cant prove it's true, it must be possible to prove its false < 1296061107 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you say things like "provable" or "disprovable" without respect to an axiom system you will end up writing a book like GEB one day � in that it can only be kept on reinforced steel bookcases? < 1296061110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: but in a consistent system, either proposition is either probably true or provably false < 1296061111 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No, there are many consistent systems in which you can neither prove or disprove something < 1296061112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1296061113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't. < 1296061117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no, *no* it isn't. < 1296061122 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er sorry, you said consistent < 1296061127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, ZFC is a consistent system that cannot prove or disprove the continuum hypothesis < 1296061134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a complete system, yes. < 1296061137 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1296061141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are no useful complete systems :) < 1296061141 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasnt reading fully < 1296061145 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since i said complete < 1296061156 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey boolean algebra is both complete, consistent, AND useful! < 1296061166 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that its terribly complex < 1296061180 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that the completeness<->satisfiable equivalence, in an axiomatic logic system, follows from the principle of explosion and one other statement that I need to dig out of my notes) < 1296061218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate text editors they are so bad. < 1296061224 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, ((a->(~a))->~a) < 1296061260 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's like teaching kids { x | P(x) } instead of { x in X | P(x) } < 1296061279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: yes but disprovable(P) is perfectly valid INFORMAL SHORTHAND < 1296061281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an assumed theory < 1296061283 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1296061288 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have those two as theorems of your system, then you have completeness<->satisfiable which has all the nice properties you expect < 1296061296 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn you for forcing me to unignore elliott < 1296061299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in informal language, convenience wins over precision when the rest can be inferred < 1296061299 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: "Informal logic"? LOL < 1296061306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: informal discussion of formal logic < 1296061312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, the _theory_ wasn't relevant < 1296061313 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be logreading < 1296061320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if left as a free variable < 1296061323 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The theory is always relevant < 1296061325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1296061332 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with elliott here. it is understand that we are speaking of a particular system, namely any system where GIT applies. < 1296061344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're all gits < 1296061364 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also < 1296061388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1296061390 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't prove that in this system < 1296061394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :githouse | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ < 1296061394 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why do text editors suck < 1296061399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're unusable < 1296061429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of systems in which (~a) and (a) are provable; namely all inconsistent ones < 1296061442 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how so < 1296061454 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is vim unusable? why is emacs unusable? why is unusable? < 1296061464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're either vastly inefficient or nearly impossible to commit to muscle memory < 1296061485 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pebkac < 1296061488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: With enough time I could probably turn Emacs into a usable text editor, but that's just writing a text editor myself, except with keybinding clashes. < 1296061494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not pebkac, just unrealistically high standards < 1296061497 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make a usable one then! < 1296061499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok acme is quite nice. < 1296061499 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1296061501 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pebkac < 1296061505 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pebkac < 1296061519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am disappointed < 1296061526 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting interesting conversation < 1296061527 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being unrealistic is a problem... < 1296061527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: in #esoteric we are generally more lenient to those who are dissatisfied with the current status of computing. < 1296061529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reignores
< 1296061536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gb2/r/programming < 1296061539 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296061546 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's keep it real, shall we? < 1296061551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being unrealistic isn't a problem if you make attempts at fixing it, which i have < 1296061557 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im utterly dissatisfied with the current status of computing < 1296061567 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because i dont know whats new and interesting < 1296061567 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: hmm? < 1296061573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: almost nothing < 1296061575 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, elliott: whats new and interestion < 1296061575 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1296061576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: obviously your ACM membership isn't up to date < 1296061576 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1296061579 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the closest *realistic* approximation to your standards? < 1296061581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1296061582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the field is in stasis < 1296061586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: my editor :P < 1296061592 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i dont need an acm membership, im at a university! < 1296061597 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1296061606 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: show me < 1296061606 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said yesterday, computer science is dead < 1296061607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well. acme is quite nice. yaedit has good finger feel and muscle memory. < 1296061618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what interesting stuff have you read lately < 1296061618 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1296061624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I was joking < 1296061628 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :( < 1296061630 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: step 1) pick a field < 1296061631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro doesn't do interesting things < 1296061638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step 2) find the people at your university in that field < 1296061640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step 3) ask them < 1296061648 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what the field is that im interested in < 1296061650 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the topic < 1296061654 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its not really a field < 1296061670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i was off ignore for coppro? < 1296061673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joyous day < 1296061711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear coppro gets paid by the number of times he mentions that i'm on ignore < 1296061714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whining about minecraft discussion < 1296061737 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constraint logic seems interesting, in principle < 1296061738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what topic? < 1296061750 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot of the techniques ive seen involve just prologesque resolution < 1296061769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try to solve 3-SAT in polynomial time :P < 1296061779 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but but < 1296061782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant prove p = np! < 1296061785 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously; find the people, then find the research < 1296061788 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get interested in practical programming with dependent types < 1296061801 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need an army of people interested in that in order to get things moving < 1296061820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whats your favorite dependent type language again? coq? < 1296061833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all suck! but you can define and prove things in Coq so that's a plus < 1296061834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1296061835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram 2 < 1296061837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Epigram 2 < 1296061839 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epigram 2 < 1296061840 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296061842 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill look into it < 1296061847 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but epigram 2 isn't .... real?? < 1296061850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: :TROLL: < 1296061854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: come back in ten years < 1296061855 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1296061856 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq is probably the best for learning < 1296061870 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you elliott :( < 1296061871 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's actually possible to automate proofs < 1296061875 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: any idea on the status of the latest try on that front? < 1296061878 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296061913 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139032.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296061929 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather, the latest try at showing it can't be done :P_ < 1296062058 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing that what can't be done? < 1296062091 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20 < coppro> you should try to solve 3-SAT in polynomial time :P < 1296062096 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1296062245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll add haskell indentation support to yaedi < 1296062245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1296062700 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effing Google. < 1296062712 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO, GOOGLE, NOT EVERYONE HAS AN SMS-CAPABLE DEVICE TO HAND. < 1296062747 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Birdsniper.jpg < 1296062755 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best image ever to appear on a WP article. < 1296062962 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaedit seems okay, but that planned "smart syntax-checking and variable coloring" thing sounds awful nice. wonder how long that will take. < 1296062998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well the main thing i like about yaedit is its interface and its auto-save < 1296063018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interface, i.e. a spartan GUI where everything is shown at all times, accessed by the keyboard < 1296063028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that informs you how to use the keyboard to do things when you do them with your mouse (e.g. clicking in the line dialogue) < 1296063030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1296063036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the line jumping/search is very well-done < 1296063038 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: auto-save kind of bugs me, but then, i want a text-editor that i can use as a textual scratch pad and not just programming < 1296063059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: in leaden (my editor project), auto-save is coupled with VCS-save < 1296063069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that is, every change is saved to disk automatically, and Ctrl+S asks for a commit message and does a VCS commit < 1296063082 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, i want to be able to use it as a multi-line input buffer that isn't associated with any file < 1296063088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, leaden can do that < 1296063091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: also, undo information is stored to a file in ~/.leaden < 1296063096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can undo, say, days of changes < 1296063099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even after reopening a file < 1296063109 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's nice < 1296063111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the auto-save thing is great because you can test changes to a program extremely rapidly < 1296063118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Ctrl+S vcs integration makes version control a lot nicer < 1296063122 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: i dont know if that word you mentioned is a word or not. that will depend on the person. < 1296063141 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so what happens when you are editing without specifying a file? < 1296063152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it doesn't save it... either that or it saves it in /tmp < 1296063203 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does leaden do all the things you like about yaedit? < 1296063219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes < 1296063230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: also: smart language modes < 1296063238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pervasive syntax highlighting and auto-indentation < 1296063241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :handled _programmatically_ < 1296063249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., the indenter for a language is an actual program < 1296063257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even complex languages like Haskell can be auto-indented < 1296063293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: also: extensive project support _without_ any project files < 1296063303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a certain directory open as a project, then you can "open in project" extremely rapidly < 1296063310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you have foo.h in myproj/foo/bar/baz/ < 1296063313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can just do < 1296063315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+O foo.h < 1296063320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll complete that < 1296063324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as fo.h < 1296063329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming this is unambiguous; you select from a list) < 1296063330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1296063347 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so < 1296063351 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is missing? < 1296063370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I lost the code to the initial prototype and haven't yet got the energy to rewrite it? < 1296063406 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have a binary with no source? < 1296063432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, i just don't have it :) < 1296063447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this stuff is pretty easy to implement, but i didn't yet get around to it... if i still had the basic editor code i'd be implementing them now < 1296063455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had auto-indent working for python < 1296063489 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obtw < 1296063494 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you're reading the logs < 1296063532 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the odds you'll come upon a link for your little roguelike that still has its source in it? < 1296063551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1296063571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: do you not have a copy? < 1296063639 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so. if i did, it'd be one of the earliest ones < 1296063822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think cheater99 has it >__> < 1296063908 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck did you lose it? < 1296063976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: wiped drive by accident, then pastie.org went all fag and deleted old pastes < 1296064006 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dropped a magnet on it? < 1296064025 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try recovering? < 1296064079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, i was reinstalling linux and backed up my shit to the windows partition < 1296064083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i then accidentally deleted < 1296064088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and installed linux over < 1296064121 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux is smaller than windows. basically always. i would have still tried recovering < 1296064225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but there was nothing of value :P < 1296064228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than vagrant, basically < 1296064358 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1296064372 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite vagrant for maximum awesomeitude < 1296064520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it was already max awesome < 1296064562 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1296064565 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in-progress < 1296064569 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had potential < 1296064727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: find it for me then fucker < 1296065420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:37:43 Gregor: OMG < 1296065420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:37:47 The smallest enemies, right < 1296065420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:37:52 Little tiny critters that are only a mild annoyance < 1296065420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:37:55 Gregor: Make them the favicon. < 1296065420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:38:02 The website fights back! < 1296065420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:38:06 It doesn't want you to steal its images! < 1296065422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:38:14 ... YES. YES, YES. < 1296065424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:38:29 Favicon goombas! < 1296065426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:38:32 YESSS < 1296065435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIKE HOW THE FAVICON GOOMBAS WERE FUCKING TERRIFYING RATHER THAN A MILD ANNOYANCE < 1296065459 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1296065460 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude ... they're goombas. < 1296065499 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i ever give them a death sequence? i don't remember... < 1296065574 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1296065615 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that was my next task i was trying to remember :P < 1296065634 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a giant flying boss with 1000 HP < 1296065638 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1296065674 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.119.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296065682 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They're goombas and YOU HAVE ONE HEART OF HEALTH. < 1296065691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1296065692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That's your fault. < 1296065704 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, yes it is :P < 1296065714 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instadeath is pretty much awesome < 1296065839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Also, in Mario * you have one hit worth of health until you get a powerup, and they still throw goombas at you *shrugs* < 1296065852 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mario's collision detection is A LOT MORE FORGIVING :P < 1296065867 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's easier to move around without slipping. < 1296065994 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< qntm> Switching from Courier New to Consolas has made a tangible improvement to my programming happiness. < 1296066011 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't believe he used courier new < 1296066029 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a cool looking font, but does not look good in an editor < 1296066084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You crazy fontophiles. < 1296066202 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Courier New in my XP VM :P < 1296066209 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consolas I don't like. < 1296066216 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My XP VM has font antialiasing disabled.) < 1296066222 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know a decent Windows 7 torrent...? < 1296066223 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1296066234 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use Droid Sans these days... < 1296066237 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to find a cracked one without any extra bullshit... < 1296066255 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Computer Modern sometimes iirc < 1296066271 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: For...coding? < 1296066301 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to recheck my settings < 1296066312 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my terminal is set to use droid sans though < 1296066335 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Droid Sans *Mono*, more likely < 1296066415 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hi < 1296066424 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes < 1296066450 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 hours remaining ... oh JOY. < 1296066462 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: do you have um, say, like, a Vagrant, like, loitering on your system somewhere, that, uh, you'd like to, erm, share, pretty please? < 1296066492 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1296066509 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pleeeeeeeease? < 1296066523 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ < 1296066569 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't someone mention something about a minecraft server //__ // < 1296066591 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know about that. can't help you there. < 1296066621 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i demand vagrant.py < 1296066628 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i do know a few good ones...i just dont know #esoteric's < 1296066634 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: >__> < 1296066655 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I am not allowed to give you the server address, nor is any other member. Please give me my program. < 1296066668 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ur not nice to me < 1296066745 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: give it to me then? i promise i won't give that file to elliott. i'll work on it myself. < 1296066746 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please cut the childishness, I merely want the single latest .py file that is my program. < 1296066758 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no vagrant.py < 1296066770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called game.py >________________> < 1296066795 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you kids playing < 1296066810 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please just give me my program. < 1296066821 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel the ratio of you being non-nice to me vs me being non-nice to you is not balanced! < 1296066829 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you accidentally delete your program and this guy has a backup? < 1296066833 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1296066877 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Look, I'll be nice, just give me my program. < 1296066892 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the program? < 1296066903 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a fan of Droid Sans Mono. I just wish it had a dotted 0 < 1296066905 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: Vagrant. < 1296066907 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this actually genuine < 1296066909 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1296066913 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 cheater cheater 2.0K 2010-10-06 01:48 game.py < 1296066920 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is this actually genuine? < 1296066978 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yes. please give me my program. < 1296066983 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple request ... < 1296066988 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-invariant: that's the name of the program < 1296066992 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1296066996 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's seen it < 1296067000 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott will be nice to me < 1296067031 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you're not setting a good example < 1296067045 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Can you put it on sprunge/any pastebin? < 1296067054 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that's the plan < 1296067067 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to figure out which file is which < 1296067208 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Can't you just upload all of them? < 1296067215 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have just done that < 1296067217 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/43338/vagrand < 1296067221 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/43340/vagrand_alternate < 1296067303 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know which of those is more recent. hm < 1296067309 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VagRand, the random number generator for ladies only. < 1296067316 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the first one is with G's < 1296067327 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that all the versions you have? < 1296067330 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296067368 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's where the monsters got AI < 1296067374 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before that they would beeline you < 1296067385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296067387 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both these versions are broken < 1296067391 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now they can even go around obstacles < 1296067392 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296067398 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're not big bugs from what i remember < 1296067407 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a debug.py? < 1296067418 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1296067498 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact they raise no exceptions < 1296067503 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296067526 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot what that was... but we were able to figure it out. < 1296067643 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we" < 1296067733 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: do you not have the more recent code with my rewritten ai? < 1296067768 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1296067794 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1296067904 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-237-250.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296067978 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that was fairly simple < 1296067994 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try: .... < 1296067994 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except Exception as e: < 1296067994 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Q(repr(e)) < 1296067994 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s.getkey() < 1296068059 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1296068062 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing cast somewhere < 1296068071 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1296068314 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not what i thought it is < 1296068316 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's near < 1296068432 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed: < 1296068434 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if w[v]==81 or w[v]>9000: < 1296068434 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : u = int((1-2*(r(0,10)/10))*o(1,11+y-B)+11-B),int(A-40+o(1,40+x-A)*(1-2*(r(0,10)/10))) < 1296068434 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Q(str(B)) < 1296068434 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if u in w and w[u] in (0,32,33,36,37) and u not in s: < 1296068448 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's with one extra indent for the try/except) < 1296068571 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you can take off those int()'s < 1296068583 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's your lame ai version though < 1296068587 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1296068592 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the bug in the other :P < 1296068600 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the other? < 1296068603 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i suppose i could backport my ai to the first one < 1296068604 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1296068605 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: the older one < 1296068607 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1296068622 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know a good X server for windows? < 1296068740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there even any options besides the one that comes with Cygwin and XMing? < 1296068780 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think so... but the thing with Xming is that the author thinks that only offering a version from 2007 for free and then asking for a "donation" (read purchase) to get something recent is a good strategy. < 1296068801 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great way to pretend to be an "open source community program" while charging for it .. < 1296068849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty cool :P < 1296068854 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*... < 1296068859 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We evidently have different definitions of cool. < 1296068882 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If it was "Newer versions cost money and are released for free after four years", fine. < 1296068891 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's worded in a slimy way. < 1296068913 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I <3 both "Donor Password" and the incorrect use of "Public Domain" < 1296068919 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still under the X11 license, right? < 1296068930 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Only the PUBLIC DOMAIN versions. < 1296068939 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cost versions are proprietary, pay-for software, plain and simple. < 1296068949 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost makes you wanna use the GPL : < 1296068950 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1296068951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's retardalicious. < 1296068962 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just makes me want to not use Windows *shrugs* < 1296068967 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hell, I'd prefer a restricted free version rather than just an OBSOLETE free version. < 1296068978 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The problem here is a moron, not Windows :P < 1296069002 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, I'm running a recent version of X11 ;) < 1296069017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Again, where's my goddamn TROLL FACE codepoint) < 1296069049 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Cygwin/X exists ... and requires Cygwin, which is the worst piece of software ever created :P < 1296069080 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I wonder if your ELF loader thing would work with Interix. < 1296069091 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine why not. < 1296069105 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it might require some minor tweaking to get the image offset right, but otherwise. < 1296069249 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there is that one trollface emoticon that's _ < 1296069252 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try that one < 1296069263 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'snot trollfacey enough :( < 1296069327 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's look of disapproval < 1296069328 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trollface < 1296069332 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOB < 1296069332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1296069372 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, when the electric guitar isn't shredding MIDIly, it's actually not that bad ;P < 1296069416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION had no luck finding any VSTi's that do electric guitars any better ... particularly at the end, where it's really vital.
< 1296069433 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll shed YOUR MIDIly. < 1296069461 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"crumbs", he said, "i'm all out of crumbs" < 1296069461 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: end where? < 1296069472 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of universe < 1296069479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: End of http://codu.org/music/e/superturing/superturing.ogg < 1296069484 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Play it on a real guitar. < 1296069493 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't play the geetar < 1296069496 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In fact, play all of it. < 1296069497 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: add some reverb < 1296069505 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but neither does SuperTuring's theme tune :P < 1296069507 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It molests the guitar. < 1296069521 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ... more reverb? :P < 1296069540 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1296069541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think elliott_ is exaggerating how bad the guitar is, all things considered it's pretty darn good :P < 1296069544 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING NEEDS MORE REVERB < 1296069550 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's just not hardcore enough. < 1296069555 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that all sounds like a mpu-401 < 1296069559 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well that's definitely true. < 1296069608 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Oh it does not. < 1296069646 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you totally need to work on your mix < 1296069655 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he doesn't < 1296069658 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great < 1296069706 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the fact that everything shares the same reverb is not helping at all < 1296069718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true :P < 1296069724 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not an audiophile. < 1296069726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fuck off :P < 1296069731 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that you're not using any eq on anything < 1296069732 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1296069746 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: It sounds awesome < 1296069748 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're lame. < 1296069748 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that all velocities are set to 100 or some other constant number < 1296069755 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it sounds like an mpu 401 < 1296069759 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they're not... at least I doubt they are. < 1296069761 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's what you want, it sounds awesome < 1296069764 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like mpu 401 music < 1296069766 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: No, they're not. < 1296069771 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor isn't a noob :P < 1296069779 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i wager a bet that wasn't gregor's intention < 1296069786 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: It's meant to be a cheesy theme tune. < 1296069794 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, it's meant to sound like that. < 1296069797 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is most assuredly meant to be cheesy, yes. < 1296069800 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, it's perfect < 1296069805 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not supposed to be dramatic, it's supposed to be ridiculous. < 1296069815 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1296069820 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, ridicoulous in a way that makes it sound like it's trying to be dramatic but failing hard. < 1296069823 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1296069824 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ridiculous < 1296069836 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you recording it all with vst synths? < 1296069844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope :P < 1296069850 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how then? < 1296069864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s all soundfonts ... my experience with VSTs is somewhat limited and I find them very annoying. < 1296069866 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundfont < 1296069872 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1296069884 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to pretend VSTs existed when I found out that they all have custom skins. < 1296069887 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a physical midi interface? < 1296069890 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom, terrible skins meant to look like REAL AUDIO HARDWARE MAN. < 1296069898 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Yes. < 1296069907 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a trick you can use to make it more cheesy < 1296069911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem I have with VST's is that I can't "make" and go from source -> sound. < 1296069919 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dump the output as a midi file through the interface < 1296069962 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll rate-limit the midi events < 1296069966 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smearing the notes out < 1296069971 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in a real dos game < 1296069987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, awesome, but that's not really the way in which it's supposed to be cheesy :P < 1296069998 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, jus sayin < 1296069998 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not necessarily ... maybe. < 1296070125 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also another thing you can do is play it back through cheesy speakers and a cheesy microphone, and mix that with the original < 1296070128 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little < 1296070133 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give it that cheesy grunge < 1296070143 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when lots of bass comes in and the tiny speaker starts farting < 1296070164 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think cheater99 has a very good conception of cheesy. < 1296070418 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has their own idea :p < 1296070421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real problem here is that I'm a classically-trained musician, and electronic music ain't my thing ... I'm used to composition and performance being well-separated, and a lot of the aspects of tonality being related to environment rather than human fine-tuning. And I hate that fine-tuning, and I'm not an audiophile :P < 1296070441 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... the first half a minute isn't tonal at all < 1296070456 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1296070461 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1296070463 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO < 1296070463 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TONAL < 1296070473 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEGATONAL < 1296070477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I meant character, not tonality >_> < 1296070486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, character of tone. < 1296070495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in SOUND < 1296070496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boom* < 1296070540 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, things like reverb are out of the hands of both the composer and the performer. < 1296070576 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even making my hand-played piano works sound as good as I'd like is annoying for me because I am not an acoustical engineer :P < 1296070598 0 :miekko!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1296070662 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm learning, so shut your facehole. < 1296070666 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which you already have :P ) < 1296070791 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is this miekko guy, i blame fizzie < 1296070795 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks suspiciously fizzie-related < 1296070814 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no they're not < 1296070845 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you have no idea what an awesome amount of work goes into fine-tuning the reverberation of a concert area! < 1296070858 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Fine-tuning BY ACOUSTICAL ENGINEERS, not the performers. < 1296070861 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: That's my goddamn point. < 1296070864 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296070868 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1296070871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1296070871 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1296070871 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the acoustical engineer here < 1296070876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S MY POINT < 1296070878 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you're building from ground up < 1296070882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT - IS - MY - POINT < 1296070887 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, you can get altiverb < 1296070896 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it gets easier for you < 1296070910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Altiverb 6 is a convolution reverb plug-in for Mac OS X and Windows XP." < 1296070912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mac OS X and Windows XP." < 1296070916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurf durf < 1296070925 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use one of those philharmonic ensemble samplers that also have a reverb/space placement solution < 1296070939 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: horses for courses < 1296070940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they have the same stunning Linux support too. < 1296070954 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i wish audio software would come to linux :( < 1296070962 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, by dumping hundreds of dollars into something I make no money on, I can make something good enough to make cheater99 say "this is tolerable" < 1296070963 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray < 1296070977 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i said "get" < 1296070977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: My 100% disbelief that Gregor will stop using Linux for his music especially when he's stated that he doesn't want any solution that he can't use from the command-line for the fact that it already sounds fine. < 1296070979 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "buy" < 1296070983 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being silly :p < 1296070986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I don't pirate stuff. < 1296070991 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you can use windows vst under linux < 1296070998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, cheater99's going back on ignore now that I have what I want. < 1296071028 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: The only VSTs I've found that enable my absolute requirement of "make -> music" are DSK's (quite awesome) VST's of brass and strings. The brass I haven't tried integrating into this yet. < 1296071080 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, I tried integrating it's trumpet and it's not as good (IMHO) as the relatively-good soundfont I have. Its trombone MUST be better than the one I have since the one I have has shitty audible looping X_X < 1296071111 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But controlling the dynamics mix when you have both soundfonts and VSTis in a make-able way is a PITA *sigh* < 1296071115 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am a Finn, I study CS and am writing my bachelor's thesis on complexity theory, no association to any fizzie of any kind < 1296071126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miekko: Aren't all you Finns related? < 1296071137 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related by Finnish EVIL. < 1296071139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure fizzie isn't your uncle or something? < 1296071159 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there are soundfont vst's. < 1296071165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Terrible ones. < 1296071191 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: FluidSynth is still, by a wide, wide margin, the best SoundFont renderer for any platform available legally for free. < 1296071227 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe, but if that is the case, his identity as fizzie is unknown to me < 1296071230 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't tried all of them, blah blah blah disclaimer) < 1296071246 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was told to come here by slereah < 1296071443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in abo.fi at all. < 1296071452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd blame the oko instead. < 1296071473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that sneaky Slereah < 1296071488 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that guy I say < 1296071517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, not everything that ends in .fi is related to me. < 1296071571 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies! < 1296071580 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finland everyone is a second cousin < 1296071593 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of incest < 1296071605 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yea? < 1296071608 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm, I am probably not a second cousin to everyone else, because my village is so badly inbred that it's ... < 1296071612 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine, if you have two parents < 1296071616 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's say, all my second cousins are my third cousins < 1296071617 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four grand parents < 1296071620 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1296071640 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many ancestors 20 generations ago would that be? < 1296071659 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 30? < 1296071662 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about 1000 years ago? < 1296071708 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it grows exponentially, but you can also make exponential-sized cuts in it < 1296071731 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why. < 1296071734 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1296071743 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has two parents < 1296071754 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're going to have it grow exponentially, we're assuming every grandparent only is present in one place < 1296071759 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1296071764 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generations may be of different length < 1296071770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not assuming anything < 1296071782 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your paternal whateverwhateverwhatever may be half-sibling with your maternal whateverwhateverwhateverwhatever < 1296071789 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296071792 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1296071796 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :megaincest! < 1296071799 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should avoid counting anyone twice? < 1296071813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miekko: you are not helping the "finns are not crazy" case here < 1296071825 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's undoubtedly been multiple bottlenecks throughout biological history < 1296071833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll fit right in :P < 1296071835 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole human race is related by incest :P < 1296071861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never thought my life would turn out like this ... updating a Gentoo installation that's running on Windows... < 1296071867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did I go wrong? < 1296071878 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, how's gentoo these days? < 1296071885 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Still Gentoo" :P < 1296071893 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I abandoned it a few years ago < 1296071924 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION begins screaming "Debian" over and over again and foaming at the mouth
< 1296071935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miekko: I hate Gentoo, it's just that nothing else is maintained for Interix... < 1296071946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miekko: (POSIX kernel running on top of Windows NT.) < 1296071951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Cygwin, except not terrible :P < 1296071952 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why do you have Interix? :P < 1296071964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because if I didn't, I'd have Cygwin, and Cygwin is the worst piece of software ever invente. < 1296071967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*invented. < 1296071968 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why in the sense of "by what totes-legal means did you obtain it" < 1296071980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: By downloading it from microsoft.com, it's free :P < 1296071985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is??? < 1296071990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes BUT < 1296072000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You almost certainly want to download the Gentoo Prefix ISO instead. < 1296072004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gets you things such as "a gcc newer than 3.3". < 1296072006 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I guess gentoo isn't worth getting back to then < 1296072009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And it installs Interix for you. < 1296072016 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERIX COMES WITH GCC?!?! < 1296072021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...X-D < 1296072027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, and Gentoo Prefix comes with gcc 4.2. < 1296072030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can of course update that. < 1296072041 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ... it's a Microsoft product! < 1296072047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In fact, you can use Gentoo Prefix to build native Windows applications with GNU make... < 1296072048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, yes it is. < 1296072050 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain axplote* < 1296072056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It also comes with ksh... Gentoo Prefix gets you bash :P < 1296072088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The only Interix available for XP is 2004-vintage but it works fine. If you have Windows 7 Ultimate (Ultimate only... well, also Enterprise) it comes with Interix. < 1296072100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a Windows Server OS (why?!?!!) it comes with it. < 1296072104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have some other Windows 7 version sucks to be you :P < 1296072117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, Interix and Gentoo Prefix are actually pretty polished... < 1296072120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Windows No Edition < 1296072125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance fork() is instant because it isn't implemented in a retarded way on top of Win32. < 1296072129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's the BEST edition! < 1296072165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1296072189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god, emerge is slow to synchronise. < 1296072381 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1296072475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My only Windows here is Windows Server 2003; I suppose that'd work. (Except I somewhat fail to see the point.) < 1296072498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I *think* you need the standalone for that, only Vista's server onwards have it. *Think*. < 1296072504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, the point is FUN! < 1296072522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could probably build mcmap with the existing Makefile and Gentoo Prefix :P < 1296072555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Would it then work on non-POSIX-subsystemy Windowses? < 1296072585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, you set it up using the I-forget-the-name Gentoo thing so that "cc" is just a wrapper around Visual Studio. < 1296072597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Admittedly it would be easier just to use MinGW with the Gentoo Prefix's Makefile. < 1296072603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just msys :P < 1296072622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: One thing that Cygwin can do that Interix can't is build a hybrid Win32/POSIX program. < 1296072628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a Win32 program that uses ptys. < 1296072757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "emerge --sync" meant to take five years? < 1296072797 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1296072798 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-43.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296072808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How long is $ emerge --sync meant to take. < 1296072937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, first sync or later on? < 1296072948 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since it is rsync the time will vary < 1296072952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: First sync after install of what I think is a stage1. < 1296072967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be synchronising everything... < 1296072969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not stage3? I thought stage1 wasn't supported any more < 1296072969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's up to dev-vcs/tig. < 1296072978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, maybe. This is Gentoo Prefix. < 1296072980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird shit happens. < 1296072983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes first time it will fetch the portage tree < 1296072994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it says it's deleting things, so I bet I already had one. < 1296073000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It has gcc 4.2 and stuff, so maybe it is stage3. < 1296073001 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf < 1296073003 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1296073007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well probably < 1296073015 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe a very out of date tree? < 1296073026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2010-03; so only about 7 months out of date. < 1296073033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's reasonably close to "very" for computers. < 1296073058 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1296073065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for the portage tree: extremely < 1296073207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish a better distribution was maintained for Interix :P < 1296073227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, Funtoo was started by the same guy as Gentoo? < 1296073239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall Funtoo's website having something crazy on it... < 1296073346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, er, is it wise to try and install a new package with Portage before updating the system? < 1296073675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no < 1296073685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: s/wise/possible/? < 1296073693 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably not < 1296073699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1296073704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it might not complain though < 1296073709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to devote the next five years to updating the system :P < 1296073712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, initial sync can take like 20-30 minutes < 1296073718 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as far as I remember < 1296073723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you might be using a bad mirror < 1296073726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still syncin' < 1296073728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you select a UK mirror < 1296073733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't select any mirror. < 1296073737 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or did you go with the default US one < 1296073740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Note that I doubt every mirror has Gentoo Prefix. < 1296073741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's the issue then < 1296073744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1296073754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is probably one of, like, 3 I could pick :P < 1296073768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway I don't mean update, I mean upgrade. < 1296073773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc the default US mirror is rate limited if you don't run an official mirror since it is the master sync server for them < 1296073778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Can I install a package without upgrading the world? (Isn't that the TERMINOLOGY?) < 1296073779 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1296073819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can but the issue with doing this while it is syncing could be that 1) ebuild is changed while building 2) deps might be messed up possibly < 1296073834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not while. < 1296073836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean after :P < 1296073856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do the binary packages have different names or whatever? I just want the basic X programs i.e. xlogo, xterm, etc. and if there are binary versions that is preferable. < 1296073874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well sure < 1296073876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1296073883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask pikhq for details < 1296073888 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to forget them < 1296073890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq! < 1296073891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1296073899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Won't be long until he does, he's a Debianer now < 1296073901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now. < 1296073976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :net-libs/gnutls... < 1296074024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so why windowas < 1296074027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows* < 1296074049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because this is entertaining. < 1296074062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It disturbs me slightly that the Windows in a VM is performing better than its Ubuntu host. < 1296074075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what really < 1296074083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1296074084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it xp 64-bit? < 1296074090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32. < 1296074100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also allocated only 768 megs of ram and a single core. < 1296074102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then I'm utterly surprised < 1296074116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To be fair, I did disable almost every service... but still. < 1296074119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 64-bit XP is the best windows version < 1296074132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno about that, very little supports 64-bit on XP :P < 1296074143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP is pretty good though if you configure it. < 1296074155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Windows 7 has several advantages... < 1296074167 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was Vista really an unmitigated disaster? < 1296074173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xp 64 bit was based on 2003 server iirc < 1296074176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Yes. And don't ask for a comprehensive list of why. < 1296074178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains why it is snappy < 1296074200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NanoXP is based on XP SP3 corporate. < 1296074203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Corporate = doesn't bug you about activation. Ever.) < 1296074205 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, BUT I WANT MY PREJUDICES AFFIRMED < 1296074215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And it's the snappiest Windows around! :P < 1296074249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 2003 server? < 1296074252 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes probably < 1296074255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, NanoXP. < 1296074267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with the server ones is that they're usually configured to give priority to background services, not applications. < 1296074271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the opposite of what you want. < 1296074277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do nano-2003! < 1296074278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you change that, well, they're essentially the consumer edition :P < 1296074294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maaaaybe... 2003 is very un-desktop-suitable by default. < 1296074295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might do Nano7. < 1296074306 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nanoXP64 < 1296074328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That will never happen, since XP/64-bit is incredibly unsupported by everything :P < 1296074346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7's start menu is better than XP's at least... because you can just type in a program name and hit enter :P < 1296074441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey I was able to play an old windows 9x game on xp 64 < 1296074452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, planescape iirc < 1296074478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Major advantage of NanoXP: It uses the Windows 2000 installer interface. < 1296074482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is waaaay less gaudy :P < 1296074492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and doesn't even _install_ the Fisher Price theme. < 1296074503 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what theme? < 1296074513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default one, Luna. < 1296074519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the XP default blue thing? < 1296074520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fisher price"? < 1296074529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You know, Fisher PRice. < 1296074531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1296074542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I don't < 1296074545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google it. < 1296074549 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, go eat shit fuckers < 1296074556 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, what < 1296074558 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Possibly not what elliott was referring to] < 1296074565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NanoXP comes with two themes: Windows Standard, and Windows Classic. Both are Windows Classic themes, the latter looks like Windows 95 :P < 1296074658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have I mentioned that the resulting C:\WINDOWS is 200 or so megs? < 1296074665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ISO is like 180 :P < 1296074680 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slava was in #esoteric ? < 1296074683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE BENEFITS: C:\Programs instead of C:\Program Files! C:\Users instead of C:\Documents and Settings! < 1296074684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: YOUR HERO < 1296074704 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was being an idiot < 1296074710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ? < 1296074711 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a proof to exist, a statement must be true < 1296074713 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slava? < 1296074715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is that < 1296074719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: NOT IF YOU'RE INCONSISTENT < 1296074723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pestov, creator of jEdit, Factor. < 1296074730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good or bad? < 1296074739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's cool :P < 1296074741 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1296074746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I forgot his greatest achievement, Flying Shits 2000. < 1296074762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what < 1296074771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://factorcode.org/slava/FlyingShits.html < 1296074796 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you have to catch elliott? < 1296074798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMERGE STILL HASN'T FINISHED SYNCING < 1296074798 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1296074800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You need a Java compatible browser to run this applet!" < 1296074803 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will check later < 1296074809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I can't run more than w3m atm < 1296074810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's quite possibly not worth it :P < 1296074821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, summary of it then? < 1296074835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a game where you catch feces. < 1296074839 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1296074842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will skip then < 1296074844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil shits are coming to Earth from Uranus! The only way to stop them is to catch them with your Super-Loo. < 1296074847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Objective < 1296074856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was, as the page said, made when he was 13 :P < 1296074864 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be having some trouble with it < 1296074870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to start it. < 1296074872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES < 1296074885 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clicking does nothing < 1296074903 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, some of the text is cut off < 1296074924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Mac OS X cat program is not actually interrupt-safe" < 1296074931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUG REPORT FOR CAT(1) < 1296074961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, {^Raven^} is jonripley. < 1296074982 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, you can mess up *cat*? < 1296074987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY ON UNIX < 1296075008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, I bet gnu could anywhere < 1296075017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interrupted system call... why the heck really < 1296075017 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, well, yes. < 1296075022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EINTR is the stupidest thing ever < 1296075023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep, that < 1296075026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% < 1296075028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1296075028 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a unique talent for messing up the simplest programs. < 1296075030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% cat < 1296075032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^Z < 1296075032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% fg < 1296075033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: OH NOES < 1296075037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the basic transcript on os x < 1296075045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: EINTR is basically the PC luser problem, isn't it? < 1296075050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As outlined in Worse is Better... < 1296075054 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. They messed that up. < 1296075061 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*true*. < 1296075063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I prefer correctness over simplicity < 1296075092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I prefer reducing the problem until making it correct requires no thought :P < 1296075101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the obvious thing to do here is to not have signals. < 1296075107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well sure that would be nice.... < 1296075109 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:58] eazyigz: can't i manually gc? I mean like in C/C++? < 1296075109 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:58] bradleymeck: you can use delete < 1296075109 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:58] brianc: maybe "delete" < 1296075110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:58] Gregor bashes all three of you in the head.
< 1296075112 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:59] Gregor: "Manually GC" is meaningless, you cannot manually allocate/deallocate, and delete in JavaScript is not the same as delete in C++. < 1296075113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, it wants me to update portage. < 1296075114 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:59] eazyigz: Gregor: but v8 is c++ based, not JS based < 1296075116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth a shot I suppose. < 1296075129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :( < 1296075134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suggest you /part that channel forever < 1296075135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ha, it wants me to update portage. <-- yeah if it wants that you should < 1296075139 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1296075152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* IMPORTANT: 2 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo_prefix' < 1296075157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So silley. < 1296075193 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296075201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, cmd.exe fails at Unicode :P < 1296075206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so surprised. < 1296075219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eselect is ridiculously slow ... < 1296075225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that? < 1296075232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it written in bash or something? :P < 1296075319 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1296075379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... eselect is iirc written in bash yes < 1296075387 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably fork() still sucks < 1296075397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it doesn't. < 1296075406 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1296075407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Interix is implemented at the same layer as Win32; i.e. directly on top of NT. < 1296075415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NT has code in it specifically to support fork(). < 1296075422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, no, Interix fork() is actually pretty fast. < 1296075499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1296075514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Remember that Interix is actually used in ENTERPRISEY environments. < 1296075523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Unlike Cygwin, which is a creaky, half-broken toy. < 1296075580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/opt/gentoo/usr/lib/portage/bin/chpathtool" < 1296075586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might think that this is the most ridiculous path ever. < 1296075587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no. < 1296075596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow me to tell you what its path is in the Win32 subsystem. < 1296075608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\SFU\opt\gentoo\usr\lib\portage\bin\chpathtool < 1296075611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT is the most ridiculous path ever. < 1296075636 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what happens if you put a literal \ in a filename using this < 1296075646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: LET'S TRY IT < 1296075658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, after that: newline in filename (yay) < 1296075665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newlines in filenames are a bug :P < 1296075677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're never useful and make it harder to use things like find etc. safely. < 1296075678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe. < 1296075688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you need a separate print-with-\0s function... which is useless for console output. < 1296075695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the whole Unix "pass around text" stuff kinda falls apart. < 1296075707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone ever put an \n into a filename intentionally? If yes: Without being a moron? < 1296075737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I get a "no such file or directory" when I do $ touch 'a\b'. < 1296075743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but touch '?' works. < 1296075744 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err < 1296075750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1296075770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the other ones that are forbidden. Such as : < 1296075792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works too. Remember that that restriction is at the Win32 level, and Interix is accessing NTFS directly through NT. < 1296075809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but \ is on NTFS level? < 1296075812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They show as squares in explorer for me. < 1296075815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably, yes. < 1296075823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Explorer < 1296075828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does c:\ and d:\ and so on show up from interix < 1296075839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /dev/fs/C, /dev/fs/D < 1296075848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the prettiest solution but you can always symlink e.g. /c: there. < 1296075854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, under /dev? *cringe* < 1296075854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: / itself is C:\SFU. < 1296075866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes. But I would have expected under /mnt < 1296075881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're not mountpoints :P < 1296075890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1296075893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* IMPORTANT: 2 config files in '//opt/gentoo/etc/' need updating. < 1296075898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after updating portage < 1296075900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds scary... < 1296075904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dispatch-config < 1296075906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1296075917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can set it to use colordiff if you install it < 1296075923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dispatch-conf < 1296075930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah yes < 1296075930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did nothing :P < 1296075935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is wtf < 1296075939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe it tries /etc < 1296075939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. It paused for a second then exited. < 1296075956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is another tool for it too < 1296075959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see < 1296075961 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc-something < 1296075962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1296075969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or update-something < 1296075975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says nothing left to do. < 1296075983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how strange. < 1296075985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scans, and then says "nothing left to do, exiting" < 1296075992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they didn't really need updating. < 1296075994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it auto-merged. < 1296076000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, pikhq: what's the binary package for the basic X executables?! < 1296076004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc portage does that already < 1296076014 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, find /opt/gentoo/etc -iname '.*' < 1296076019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SAD OF THE DAY: I need the Cygwin DLL or something somewhere on the system so I can use mintty.) < 1296076020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look for any strange ones < 1296076027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just to make sure they *are* merged < 1296076034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably ._something < 1296076042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.keep_app-admin_eselect-python-0 < 1296076045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.keep_sys-apps_portage-0 < 1296076049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.keep_dev-libs_openssl-0 < 1296076051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the only strange ones. < 1296076110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm they are fine < 1296076117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are like .keep for CVS kind of < 1296076124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portage doesn't track dirs. Just files < 1296076327 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad spent $150 to let me have mobile Internet access while preventing my step-mom from knowing about it? < 1296076330 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mindboggles
< 1296076347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped watching Zero Punctuation and pressed alt-tab to reply, but I can't think of anything to say. < 1296076460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, that masking thing... wtf is it? < 1296076462 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I... your stepmother must be the most awful person ever < 1296076466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently xeyes is MASKED. < 1296076473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm just imagining Zorro here. < 1296076475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zorro on my desktop. < 1296076503 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be like that kitten thing. < 1296076523 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except sometimes he scratches 'Z' onto the screen. < 1296076528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: What kitten thing. < 1296076580 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the one that adds a kitten which follows your mouse around. < 1296076588 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it had a Japanese name. < 1296076608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1296076612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should install that! < 1296076639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: WHAT IST MASKE < 1296076647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh? < 1296076651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, more specific < 1296076662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: xeyes is apparently Masked. < 1296076669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have plain old unmasked eyes on my desktop rather than Zorro. < 1296076678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do. < 1296076689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well masked by what < 1296076692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I seem to recall you can't install things that are masked because Gentoo loves to make everything complicated. < 1296076697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: * x11-apps/xeyes [ Masked ] < 1296076703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh. No more details? < 1296076705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe X11 is masked or something? < 1296076712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not from emerge -s. < 1296076722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to run something specific to ask for more details? < 1296076722 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was -s now again < 1296076727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--search. < 1296076730 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, try emerge -pv xeyes < 1296076734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -p for pretend < 1296076736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-v for verbose < 1296076752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masked by missing keyword. < 1296076770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the interix arch called < 1296076773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-something? < 1296076787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-interix, I think... or something. Let me check. < 1296076794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the ebuild is missing that < 1296076799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or has ~x86-interix < 1296076807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ means testing < 1296076811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86-interix, yep. < 1296076823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is there a standard way to look at it, or should I just fish in directories? < 1296076827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it = the ebuild) < 1296076837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which version number? < 1296076848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1.1. but there's also 1.1.0. < 1296076851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean of xeyes. < 1296076855 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1296076870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, less /whatever/your/prefix/is/usr/portage/x11-apps/xeyes/xeyes-1.1.1.ebuild < 1296076878 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason my step-mom would be mad is because she'd see it as a waste of money < 1296076892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A waste of not her money. < 1296076903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in other words: the package category/name + version gives ebuild path and name < 1296076906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful to know < 1296076913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: KEYWORDS includes ~x86-linux... < 1296076917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1296076920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean that regular Gentoo users can't install xeyes? :-D < 1296076924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they changed it to read ~x86-linux? < 1296076927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe 1.1.1 is TESTING xeyes. < 1296076930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look at 1.1.0. < 1296076937 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is 1.1.0 stable? < 1296076940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, 1.1.0 has ~x86-linux. < 1296076944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: x86 is in there but also ~x86-linux. < 1296076945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf < 1296076945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now bizarre. < 1296076947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*How < 1296076951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1296076955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never heard of ~x86-linux before < 1296076958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: x86-linux is Gentoo Prefix. < 1296076960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux. < 1296076963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1296076970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well x86 is plain linux then < 1296076982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so, how can I tell portage that I don't give a shit about no damn maskin' and I want it anyway? Isn't it editing some conf file? < 1296076982 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ask pikhq for how to work around this. I forgot < 1296076994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq! < 1296076996 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh wait wasn't it /etc/portage/something.keywords and add a specific line < 1296076999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1296077002 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember details < 1296077023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a serious question. Do Gentoo users think that every distribution is this over-complicated? < 1296077034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to understand the mind of a person who would subject themselves to this. < 1296077044 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@62.1.175.222.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1296077060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package.keywords it seems. < 1296077075 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well having several versions available of a package at one time *is* actually useful sometimes < 1296077080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, apart from that: no clue < 1296077089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J < 1296077091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I mean the masking stuff :P < 1296077097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, uh, everything. < 1296077107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when I began with it I wanted rolling release. I didn't know about arch then. Heck was arch around in 2004 even? < 1296077123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exactly a noob but just about every Gentoo document confuses me... so much random terminology. < 1296077133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: arch started in 2002 < 1296077137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1296077143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I didn't know about it anyway < 1296077149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Kitten will run on Interix. :-) < 1296077171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported platforms: x86/Linux; x86/NT < 1296077187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I need... < 1296077206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11-apps/xeyes x86-interix < 1296077207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in package.keywords < 1296077224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc you need < 1296077228 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1296077232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no < 1296077238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to list a keyword that it has < 1296077239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need the full version too it seems < 1296077242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't have < 1296077253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "For example, if we're not on x86 but would like to install quake3-demo anyway < 1296077257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :games-fps/quake3-demo x86" < 1296077258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1296077259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11-apps/xeyes x86 < 1296077266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure hope that works :P < 1296077274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well it might :P < 1296077289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well it *should*, there's a compiled xfce-terminal on the DVD image. < 1296077295 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why did you stop with Kitten, BtW? < 1296077300 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project ADHD? < 1296077302 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1296077302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE: elibc_Interix kernel_Interix prefix userland_GNU x86-interix < 1296077308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEATURES: nostrip preserve-libs < 1296077309 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296077310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nostrip? Why ... < 1296077315 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no clue < 1296077329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also they put random-non-user-options in USE < 1296077331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I'd have to fight with Mac hardware to develop it on here. < 1296077336 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296077338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I get a desktop work will continue. < 1296077339 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah. < 1296077343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, I know USE is crazy. < 1296077344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which was really an abuse (pun not originally intended) of USE < 1296077344 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use your old laptop? < 1296077360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: More trouble than it's worth, it's not like it has rigorously-supported hardware either. < 1296077366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A desktop will really be the most convenient platform to do it on. < 1296077391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a thinkpad would work well too < 1296077394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just like to say that Kitten's package manager will be rigorously sane. < 1296077409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but only because ThinkPad gets preferential treatment by kernel devs... the hardware is just as nonstandard as any laptop :P < 1296077423 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how long until ais or Keymaker vapes the ClearBF page on the wiki? < 1296077425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder why kernel devs like thinkpads? < 1296077441 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1296077441 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a weird glee in hoping they'll react. < 1296077444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe because it works well mostly. Circular preference < 1296077468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, "vapes"? < 1296077476 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, vapourises? < 1296077484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, oh < 1296077490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because they were decent when laptops were terrible :P < 1296077537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah < 1296077695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why does xeyes depend on libxslt. < 1296077700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY < 1296077768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... what < 1296077772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, directly? < 1296077777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, emerge -pvt xeyes < 1296077781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this list it as a tree < 1296077785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have no idea, I did "emerge xeyes" and it's installing libxslt, so I don't want to question it :P < 1296077788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I do that while it installs? < 1296077793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, should be < 1296077797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be possible < 1296077804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it won't list already installed ones < 1296077805 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you found xcb or something in the depends < 1296077806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, emerge is slow. < 1296077816 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you can do multiple emerges side by side < 1296077816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh, right, I blame xcb. < 1296077817 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc that involves XML) < 1296077828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's XCB. < 1296077839 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wins
< 1296077845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Xlib programs depend on XCB depend on libxslt, wooooo :P < 1296077847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROGRESS < 1296077851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296077866 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, that's PROGRESS right there < 1296078035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, source-based distros are so tedious ... and emerge is so noisy. < 1296078039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people put up with this stuff? < 1296078057 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the speed of course < 1296078078 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a while to compile, but it's SO FAST afterwards, like SEVERAL PERCENT faster < 1296078094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Several percent? I doubt that very much ... :P < 1296078103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A *single* percent, maximum, unless the comparison is _really_ biased. < 1296078109 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, MAYBE! < 1296078138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckin' ricers. < 1296078255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so use debian interix < 1296078263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not even vaguely maintained. < 1296078267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately. < 1296078314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is gentoo/interix maintained? < 1296078323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1296078325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actively. < 1296078329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf < 1296078339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gentoo/Interix is just Yet Another Gentoo Prefix port. < 1296078345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo Prefix's main targets are OS X, Solaris, other Linuxes. < 1296078355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1296078364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Interix is POSIX, and it has gcc, so porting Gentoo Prefix to it is honestly not that hard. < 1296078367 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has "other" as a main target? < 1296078376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, Linux, yes. :p < 1296078379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It only has one main developer, but hey, it has a swanky installer. < 1296078386 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this port is *mainly* for everything, but mostly everything else < 1296078409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It just uses the main Gentoo Prefix tree (I don't know whether that's the main ports tree, I don't think so since --sync kept printing out a figlet "Gentoo Prefix" from the ports server). < 1296078419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be maintained as a diff to the ports tree adding the target keywords or whatever. < 1296078423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, no it is so you can do Gentoo/Debian Linux < 1296078426 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1296078432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But really, with a source distro it's quite easy to do ports like this :P < 1296078447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, there's one developer of the port itself, but many more of Gentoo Prefix. < 1296078447 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296078487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emerging 6 of 23... boy oh boy this is fun. < 1296078495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can almost taste the wasted CPU cycles. < 1296078532 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I shouldn't have closed that mplayer window, I'm never going to be able to watch this episode without rewatching something I've already seen < 1296078554 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296078577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, minecraft weirdness: the fastest tool to break a wooden pressure plate is a pickaxe < 1296078588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it a WOODEN pickaxe? < 1296078592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no < 1296078607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, diamond. Because everyone know diamond is so good for cutting wood < 1296078608 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amber tamblyn sucks in house :/ but I liked her in joan of arcadia < 1296078619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haus < 1296078626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ my useful contribution < 1296078631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. Figured out how to make a ray-transparent (it's what Blender calls actually raytracingly transparent stuff, as opposed to just z-sort + blending) object cast shadows based on the material (so the gridwork I have in windows casts grid-shaped shadows), but it's horreebly slow to render that. (I keep dabbling with that house-render.) < 1296078645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: -minecraft :P < 1296078647 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's incidentally the daughter of one of the actors in twin peaks < 1296078650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are terrible at this, aren't we. < 1296078662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1296078675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I first thought you were criticizing it for being not minecraft-related enough. < 1296078696 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-not < 1296078713 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1296078729 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, taub's wife looks like she could be taub's sister < 1296078764 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what. < 1296078791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Housecest! < 1296078792 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: yeah, I just realized they look a lot like each other < 1296078797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ my useful contribution < 1296078801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well duh that's because of genetics! < 1296078802 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :> < 1296078812 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, they mix the genes when they have intercourse < 1296078836 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1296078840 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily this means infidelity is not that big a deal since you get your genes in there anyway < 1296078846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :D < 1296078883 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is one of those yahoo answers thingies on this topic, it's kind of fun) < 1296078937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 of 23 ... < 1296078942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 of 23 actually < 1296078995 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that gentoo installing stuff? < 1296079088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes. < 1296079093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: *Gentoo/WinNT < 1296079131 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, nice combo < 1296079174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It has a fancy installer and everything. < 1296079179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: tl;dr it's the only maintained Interix distro :P < 1296079196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: But hey, it has a fancy graphical installer that lets you set up accounts and everything, and installs Interix for you. < 1296079220 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo/winnt includes interix? this sounds crazy convenient < 1296079234 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I had an nt kernel running anywhere, that is < 1296079239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yep, and all the hotfixes < 1296079247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: also, it uses the system interix on later OSes < 1296079252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: downside is it's a 2 gigabyte ISO :P < 1296079256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it is really convenient < 1296079262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically click next a bunch of times and you're done < 1296079320 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296079333 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the nature of its non-integration with win32? can it start windows programs at all? < 1296079335 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296079496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, /dev/fs/C/WINDOWS/notepad.exe works. < 1296079513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The "non-integration" is simply that you can't have a program that makes both Interix and Win32 calls (like e.g. mintty does). < 1296079534 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1296079586 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1296079607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Also it's a lot faster than Cygwin. :p < 1296079732 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made out of win and awesome, eh? < 1296079739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Win32some! < 1296079803 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win32some, Lose32some? < 1296079814 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally 32 is the ascii for space < 1296079843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Downside: at least Cygwin has binary packages :P < 1296079860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You can even run Gentoo Prefix on Cygwin, if you want the true slow-compilation experience. < 1296079882 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1296079922 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i should have proper whisky glasses < 1296079966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you should be like me, use this channel as a substitute for drinking hard liquor while looking grumpy and pissed off < 1296079982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i don't exactly have first-hand experience, but I'm pretty sure it's equivalent < 1296079987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate all you bastard < 1296079988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1296080015 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, being grumpy and pissed off doesn't require alcohol (or anything at all, really) < 1296080030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh sure, but I do it in a really classy way. < 1296080040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix might be faster than Cygwin but ./configure still ain't quick :P < 1296080161 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1296080459 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1296080498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORAPANDORA < 1296080514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 of 23. < 1296080563 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcqV7pLC0A < 1296080600 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sits on gregor
< 1296080621 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone help replace the speechbox? this one's shortcircuited < 1296080655 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1296080702 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296080717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * quintopia sits on gregor < 1296080729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17 of 23 ... holy fuck this is slow. < 1296080737 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :282) * quintopia sits on gregor < 1296080739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is rolling release really worth this crap < 1296080810 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rolling release" is where packages get updated continuously? < 1296080855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes < 1296080920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Putting Gentoo users on the same level as ricers is a bit unfair; the Gentoo users don't annoy the general public and cause traffic hazards." < 1296080921 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that sucks... but the alternative also sucks :D < 1296080934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo users don't annoy the general public? < 1296080941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not but certainly the Linux public... < 1296080954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why does rolling release suck? sure everything is hideously unmatched with each other but you get that anyway < 1296080958 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general public is luckily complete unaware of their even existing < 1296080960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since no fucking release cycles are synched up < 1296080965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky them < 1296080981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do cause the analogy of traffic hazards too... well, for developers < 1296080983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked my game programming professor if there was an equiv. of Haskell's Maybe types in C# < 1296080990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't know Haskell, so < 1296080992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"game programming professor" < 1296081004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: this is where we pull out our standard line about Sgeo's college < 1296081006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll write some code that does the same < 1296081010 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "their even existing", but I think that's how you say it? < 1296081019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, it is < 1296081029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: useless, C# already has null < 1296081034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Maybe is completely unsafe, basically < 1296081052 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA < 1296081057 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:40 < elliott> "game programming professor" < 1296081064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you put null into a bool? < 1296081071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably. < 1296081073 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :null is like Maybe with implicit fromJust < 1296081079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can certainly put _|_, but then you can in Haskell too :-) < 1296081095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: from a thread about funroll-loops.org on the Gentoo forums, circa 2004: "One week later: this is on the Arch forums. One month later: the Arch people get the joke." < 1296081110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1296081133 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that *might* be biased though :P < 1296081139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly :P < 1296081161 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw fuck, pandora is now making schlager music < 1296081180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's Kitten's CRAZY policy: I upgrade packages, except when that would break shit! < 1296081186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I don't! < 1296081203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I upgrade gcc every two major releases! :-P < 1296081216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well... I'm not going to ship the latest gcc, considering its stability record...) < 1296081231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: vikingarnarna? < 1296081254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* Gentoo does save time because it is easier to administer -- emerging does not require user intervention and its CPU usage can be tuned" < 1296081255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This person has never used apt. < 1296081313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 of 23... < 1296081316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL THIS FOR XEYES < 1296081322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, libx11 < 1296081323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will take years < 1296081393 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1296081650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's the power of Gentoo, being able to choose whether or not you want to install all of KDE just to get arts, or whether you want to enable gnome support in Abiword. No RPM-based distro can do that." < 1296081652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install arts < 1296081655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap :P < 1296081667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reading anti-Gentoo material helps me forget that I'm running emerge in the background.) < 1296081814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Gentoo deal with self-hosted compilers other than gcc? < 1296081841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same way it deals with gcc? < 1296081937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, looks like it. < 1296081999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it just allows binaries < 1296082001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like that < 1296082090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Um, no, it uses the binary to compile the source. < 1296082101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35890 < 1296082125 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1296082141 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1296082163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I write a self-hosted SgeoLang compiler, I can just get the binary to be downloaded, even if it's only temporary before it gets compiled on the user's machine? < 1296082184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you assuming that Gentoo has some kind of... religious objection to binaries? < 1296082351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I thought that part of the reason behind it using source instead of binaries mostly is ... safety. Somehow. Although what sane person actually reads all of the source code for everything that they use? < 1296082369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure zzo38 could do it < 1296082504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35890 <-- what < 1296082537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lead GAIM developer gets fed up of Gentoo users, hilarity ensues. < 1296082571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, his request is a bit stupid though < 1296082583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *amusing < 1296082587 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that too < 1296082592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but stupid as well < 1296082602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *amusing < 1296082987 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296083056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention that Kitten is made of happiness and yay? < 1296083179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wow! emerge crashed! < 1296083197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"error: sys/poll.h: No such file or directory" < 1296083351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*** Bug 124595 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** < 1296083351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1296083469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, that's the "get rid of Quod Libet god damn" bug. < 1296083606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: will libX11 even _work_ on a platform without poll? < 1296083633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1296083636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interix _has_ poll < 1296083643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1296083647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just in poll.h, not sys/poll.h < 1296083648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes symlink
< 1296083654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gay and yay < 1296083660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1296083669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: kitten < 1296083717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with Quot Libet? < 1296083723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lol < 1296083725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nothing. < 1296083740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Quod Libet developer asked for the package's removal, as the package was unmaintained and broken. < 1296083751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin lesson: quod = what, quot = how many < 1296083753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because it was causing many, many incorrect bug reports for the developer. < 1296083764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Due to the package being broken.) < 1296083767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Gentoo developers said "no". < 1296083771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *maintainers < 1296083776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Developers" is too kind. < 1296083838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he should send them a bill for his wasted time < 1296083866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, that should be possible < 1296083941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: consider that things like Bitcoin essentially use time as a currency :) < 1296083950 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1296083956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a bitcoin is a proof that you've done at least this much computing work, which takes about this much time < 1296084229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh wow: http://pastebin.com/7VRZpfmy < 1296084244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which Gentoo tells everybody who installs libX11 to bother the X.Org developers. < 1296084248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of two warnings. < 1296084428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1296084444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Implicit declarations can have really surprising results sometimes. < 1296084444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How reasonable! < 1296084458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeees... but a distro shouldn't be telling EVERYONE who installs a package to bug the developers. < 1296084464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that way lies FIVE THOUSAND DUPLICATE BUG REPORTS. < 1296084486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not entirely sure why emerge outputs those QA notices by default. < 1296084491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Better would be for the *damn package maintainers* to be able to run it and get those notices to report. < 1296084496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Cause it's kinda intended for the maintainers. < 1296084514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right ... but the wording doesn't say "maintainers, report this" it says "report this" :P < 1296084518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus resulting in... bad. < 1296084530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, the Gentoo Prefix installer Just Works. < 1296084551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I'm on the slow, slow path to installing xeyes with only one thing I had to fix (link /usr/include/sys/poll.h to /usr/include/poll.h). < 1296084619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Then there are the people who compile everything with "-O3 -fomit-frame-pointers -ffast-math -fguess-at-hard-math -mmmx -msse2 -fexpensive-optimizations -mcpu=Pentium4 -march=AthlonXP -finline-functions" and don't understand why things crash from time to time." --Gentoo forums < 1296084626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You should integrate -fguess-at-hard-math into the cfunge build process < 1296084628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*process. < 1296084733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have I mentioned that in Kitten, the package manager automatically updates all packages before installing a new one? :p < 1296084744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my INNOVATIVE solution to the "packages don't like each other" problem. < 1296084803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, I just realised something. You know how you said that dynamically-linked stuff will fail if it's built for prefix / and you put it in e.g. /arch/x86? < 1296084924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's not a problem if you don't dynamically link! < 1296084945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, I just realised something. < 1296084960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The only directories that actually differ depending on the architecture are /lib and /bin, right? < 1296084985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most distros have /lib -> /lib64 or vice versa and then use /lib32. Well... why not just have /bin64 and /bin32? Except by /bin64 I mean /bin-x86-64, of course. < 1296085302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG XEYES INSTALLED < 1296085324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A handful of packages will actually install different headers as well. < 1296085356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am about to run xeyes on Gentoo on Interix on Windows NT, shown on an X11 server running on Win32 running on Windows NT. < 1296085367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1296085386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IT WORKS < 1296085439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldl < 1296085439 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z [] = z < 1296085439 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs < 1296085442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ^ < 1296085450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldr < 1296085450 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z [] = z < 1296085450 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f z (x:xs) = f x (foldr f z xs) < 1296085467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How does one take a screenshot in Windows if one has no Print Screen key, do you know? :p < 1296085485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh. < 1296085512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you have to use the onscreen keyboard :P < 1296085521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Fn+F11 apparently < 1296085525 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it is defined recursively using itself doesn't mean its functionality is absolutely necessary as a primary syntactical element... is there a way to define it with respect to other functions only? < 1296085533 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka, no recursion) < 1296085537 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on itself) < 1296085546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no. haskell has no recursive primitives < 1296085552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is implemented in terms of recursion < 1296085555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src fix < 1296085555 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix f = let x = f x in x < 1296085560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can implement the Y combinator with a data type < 1296085564 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1296085571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use that to implement fix < 1296085577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically you don't need to recurse < 1296085579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... that's pointless < 1296085603 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chews
< 1296085603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Jesus though, is installing xeyes meant to take hours? < 1296085615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh, from scratch? < 1296085622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, X has a giant dependency tree. < 1296085626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, installing libxcb upwards and all, yeah. < 1296085633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Faster than Cygwin :P < 1296085783 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~bf +[.+] < 1296085866 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooool < 1296085874 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[.+] < 1296085874 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
 .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€�‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹Œ�Ž��‘’“”•–—˜™š›œ�žŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏ ... < 1296085891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +.[+.] < 1296085892 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
 .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€�‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹Œ�Ž��‘’“”•–—˜™š›œ�žŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏ ... < 1296085892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftfy < 1296085899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the nul is stripped :P < 1296085937 0 :j-invariant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1296085944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1296085959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++.[++.] < 1296085959 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. "$&(*,.02468:<>@BDFHJLNPRTVXZ\^`bdfhjlnprtvxz|~€‚„†ˆŠŒŽ�’”–˜šœž ¢¤¦¨ª¬®°²´¶¸º¼¾ÀÂÄÆÈÊÌÎÐÒÔÖØÚÜÞàâäæèêìîðòôöøúüþ < 1296086031 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot strips a lot of special chars by replacing them with . < 1296086032 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that'll never grow the stack indefinitely. i assume irc has limits to the language you choose pales in comparison to its peers, perl, etc. < 1296086072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i see only a few .'s < 1296086089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ^J and ^M < 1296086096 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for \n < 1296086097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and . itself < 1296086101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for some reason xeyes causes 64% cpu usage in the posix process... < 1296086108 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1296086108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: \n = ^J < 1296086119 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: orait < 1296086155 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happened to ^B? that makes bold right? did the ^C override it? < 1296086156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: however ^B-^H are probably stripped by the channel +c mode < 1296086162 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1296086163 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1296086174 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1296086175 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right < 1296086185 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got the same output in PM < 1296086193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^O, ^V and ^W also are missing < 1296086211 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g229028201.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1296086216 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^M is \r right? < 1296086235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1296086266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1296086272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else see the 128 and up a while characters as double inverted? < 1296086286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's ctrl+foo, I think < 1296086289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which irssi shows as inverted foo < 1296086292 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything after the second @ < 1296086301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^H = ^@ + something < 1296086304 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and until the second _ < 1296086309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ^@ is 127 or something < 1296086316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something = offset of H from @ < 1296086320 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after which are undisplayable characters in this font... < 1296086322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's shown as inverted H in irssi < 1296086351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except i don't see them as a single char but as two equal copies of the x-128 one, which is itself x-64 inverted i think < 1296086369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, i see char 128 as two inverted @'s < 1296086379 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooope < 1296086383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i blame faeries < 1296086393 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1296086398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. < 1296086399 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :€