00:00:22 elliott, you haven't seen all of DS9? 00:00:29 Where are you, so I can avoid spoiling you 00:00:32 Sgeo: no, I haven't; but I meant ruin my enjoyment 00:00:34 :p 00:00:35 not spoil it 00:00:51 I've seen the last season iirc, so you can't really spoil me 00:00:57 ais523: I need something like $PATH but for non-command-line-tools 00:01:06 ais523: sort of like $LD_LIBRARY_PATH 00:01:10 ais523: except it's... $SHELLPATH 00:01:11 elliott: omg look at what glguy posted in #haskell 00:01:23 copumpkin: uh oh? 00:01:27 haha 00:01:42 If there are any Minecraft players here, I've been toying around with a Haskell project http://www.github.com/glguy/minecraft-proxy 00:01:51 fizzie: I SUGGEST IMMEDIATE LEGAL ACTION. 00:05:01 I stupidly forgot to patent the technology. :/ 00:05:21 how did Minecraft end up so popular anyway? 00:05:33 ais523: because it's a good game, despite all its flaws 00:05:35 and very addictive 00:06:45 http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/fa6fs/i_heard_notch_wanted_to_add_another_realm_like/c1efi59 00:07:02 Look closely at the name of the first commenter. 00:07:08 copumpkin: the reason I didn't link in-channel is because of //goto 00:07:14 ? 00:08:36 copumpkin: it can crash servers :) 00:08:39 oh 00:19:16 -!- cheater00 has joined. 00:19:17 elliott: I thought, only when you use it 00:19:33 the really ironic thing is, Minecraft definitely qualifies as an esolang 00:19:37 so I'm not even convinced it's offtopic here 00:19:42 maybe we should add it to the wiki 00:19:52 along with Dwarf Fortress 00:20:16 ais523: "only when you use it"? 00:20:35 elliott: wasn't it you who crashed the server via /goto? 00:21:05 ais523: PH is the one who crashed the reddit server with it :) 00:21:20 Shhh! 00:22:01 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:22:18 perhaps a /travel could be useful, equivalent to NetHack's _ or Crawl's control-G 00:23:03 Entirely possible if someone actually writes a pathfinder for it. 00:23:21 fizzie: how did you work around the zlib truncated chunk updates? 00:23:29 ais523: part of MC's appeal is how manual it is 00:23:42 ais523: BTW, *//goto 00:23:51 mcmap commands start with two /s to avoid clashing 00:23:58 oh, I assumed you'd overescaped by mistake 00:26:08 avoid clashing by slashing 00:26:50 fizzie: research results: 00:26:51 I found that the server will let you place blocks wherever 00:26:51 it doesn't check that you are in range or that you aren't just placing against air 00:27:00 fizzie: we were wondering about that 00:27:01 or was it Phantom_Hoover 00:27:09 It was me. 00:27:41 elliott: Well, I use the same zlib decompression style as openjdk (which doesn't finalize and therefore won't fail if it's just the checksum that is truncated), and I also accept truncated updates as long as the chuck data (first two fifths) is there. 00:27:45 Wait. 00:27:51 You can place lava anywhere. 00:28:00 Usually it doesn't blow up so much that this would be a problem. 00:28:09 Without range or line-of-sight considerations. 00:28:16 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 00:28:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:29:48 isn't game servers trusting their clients too much like, the oldest way to be easily cheated ever 00:30:12 oerjan: Notch is an idiot 00:30:23 http://i.imgur.com/KM74P.jpg <-- this is the stupidest thing ever 00:31:35 elliott: Dang. 00:31:51 i can't think of anyone who would say yes 00:32:05 apparently that's from Chuck Klosterman 00:32:09 who reddit says is an idiot 00:32:20 i'm sure there's some kind of obscure ethics philosophy that implies it 00:32:34 oerjan: Yes. The philosophy of "Fuck you". 00:32:45 This is actually astoundingly common. 00:33:05 pikhq: well _that_ philosophy makes it redundant to mention that it's hitler, doesn't it 00:33:08 some people think that revenge is more important than justice 00:33:09 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.12/20101026210630]). 00:33:17 so, making Hitler less happy is inherently good 00:33:23 oerjan: Yes, yes it does. 00:33:25 (even though he hadn't /done/ the awful things he did yet at the time) 00:34:03 elliott: By that point he was Chancellor of Germany. 00:34:09 had he killed any jews yet 00:34:43 the more interesting variant i've heard is "Say Hitler was still alive. You can decide whether Hitler spends the rest of his life in a utopian paradise, completely happy, with his every need catered to, living in absolute luxurious bliss. Do you?" (I forget what the alternative was) 00:34:44 elliott: that philosophy + a little time travel could lead to a nice little genocidal closed time loop 00:34:48 oerjan: :D 00:35:23 Sgeo: pong 00:35:46 The Holocaust didn't start for a few more years... 00:35:53 elliott: hm. my ethical philosophy implies that i _should_ send hitler to paradise. 00:35:55 elliott: rather depends on what "his every need" is 00:35:59 coppro, what about respecting a person regardless of their beliefs, rather than respecting the belief itself? 00:36:07 He *was* de facto dicatator, though. 00:36:11 ais523: just imagine a wonderful paradise resort 00:36:18 oerjan: I agree 00:36:28 ...wow 00:36:32 elliott: I mean, would he be allowed to commit genocide, if he felt a need to do that? 00:36:33 oerjan: what? 00:36:43 elliott: i didn't expect you to agree on that :D 00:36:48 ais523: As I said, it's perfect -- he would have absolutely no desire to commit genocide. 00:36:49 s/dicatator/dictator/ 00:37:01 elliott: doesn't that imply that he's been brainwashed? 00:37:19 ais523: The resort was created based on every one of his beliefs. 00:37:24 Sgeo: I mean respecting the right to hold the belief 00:37:24 There are no Jews there, for instance. 00:37:33 rather than respecting the content of the belief 00:37:37 Ah. 00:37:40 oerjan: Hitler can never repay his debt to society, so it's basically a case of "make Hitler happy" vs. "don't make Hitler happy", and obviously more happiness for a sentient being wins out in that case 00:37:41 ais523: Not really. He could just be convinced that the resort is entirely run by Übermensch in his honor. 00:38:05 ais523: if it makes it easier, you can imagine that it's a perfect virtual reality 00:38:15 filled with philosophical zombies emulated by an AI :) 00:38:22 (note: i don't believe in philosophical zombies) 00:38:25 (but it's called a thought experiment) 00:38:34 i.e. even if he did want to commit genocide, no sentient being would die 00:38:34 elliott: the thing is, I find the hypotheticals hard to follow 00:38:39 I think... I may have indicated to her that there are beliefs that I don't do that for, but that her beliefs aren't those 00:38:41 only philosophical zombies believe in philosophical zombies 00:38:45 I can't work out whether that would be a blessing or a curse 00:38:50 ais523: ok, let's completely abstract the resort away 00:39:06 [I got somewhat hysterical when I mistakenly thought that she believed that medicine should be ignored in favor of prayer. This was a while ago] 00:39:11 ais523: You can either make Hitler happy forever completely separated from society, or not. Do you? 00:39:15 we can simplify it by saying that I don't believe in revenge 00:39:26 which I think answers the question without having to establish what the question actually is 00:39:30 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 00:40:20 ais523: indeed 00:40:32 I think Malbolge needs an update. I may write Visual M++ 2008 Extra Ultimate Edition if I'm feeling bored some weekend. 00:40:40 ais523: now, I think you'd find that the vast majority of the general public would disagree 00:40:55 revenge is awfully and sadly popular 00:40:58 elliott: that wouldn't surprise me 00:41:05 see for instance: the entire justice system (moreso in the US) 00:41:32 I mean, you might not want to do that if it had other negative effects; for instance, if it inspired people to go around committing genocide because they thought they'd be rewarded the same way as a result 00:41:34 ais523: wait Ben Olmstead is still around? 00:41:40 oerjan: it's an old comment 00:41:44 I assume he still exists, anyway 00:42:00 date was "03/02/07", unfortunately I'm not sure of the notation 00:42:00 oerjan of FRC fame is still around? 00:42:17 oh, must be mm/dd/yy because otherwise the dates here wouldn't be in sorted order 00:42:35 Sgeo: well i hadn't seen anything new by olmstead last i checked... although i don't recall if i checked very carefully 00:42:35 Future rules must not exist. 00:42:51 oerjan: see, I can quote you from old FRC from memory 00:43:06 ais523: hm rings a very vague bell, did that get declared invalid 00:43:23 oerjan: I think so, but you were platonically incapable of writing any valid rules that round 00:43:30 oh 00:43:40 Which round? 00:43:45 the person who actually won did so unintentionally 00:43:52 Sgeo: I don't remember the number, but the theme was "win at all costs" 00:44:11 I remember seeing that summary, I don't remember reading what the archives said 00:44:24 * Sgeo googles 00:44:25 and there was an overrule for the round stating that any posts to the mailing list counted as rule submissions, also that any invalid rules at all disqualified you from the round 00:44:38 ftp://ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/pub/frc/35 00:44:48 "Win at Any Cost" 00:44:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:45:07 'A record breaking round. The meanest round in FRC history, the round with most proposals, and also the round with the highest number of participating members (thanks to Stephen).' 00:45:09 o.O 00:45:26 Does FTP offend ais523? 00:45:55 i wouldn't think so, where else would _he_ have read it... 00:46:15 i suppose someone might have mirrored them elsewhere 00:46:49 I can't find the quote 00:47:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:47:28 hm maybe i can reel oerjan back into agora via FRC 00:49:30 oerjan was an Agoran? 00:49:48 ...yes... 00:49:55 http://home.nvg.org/~oerjan/agora-horoscope/ 00:50:05 Sgeo: circa 1997 or so 00:50:10 although i think he was around in like 1994 00:50:13 oerjan knows more than I do :P 00:50:17 1993 00:50:20 and in turn, Registrar probably knows more than oerjan 00:50:21 oerjan: ah 00:50:22 Was that before or after ISIDTID was defined? 00:50:27 i joined a couple months after it started 00:50:28 Sgeo: much, much before 00:50:35 ISIDTID is like a mid-2000s invention! 00:50:36 and was a member of nomic world before that 00:50:54 oerjan: but did you yell at lindrum???? 00:51:03 ...i don't recall 00:51:11 I took a glance at Agora around 2005 or so 00:51:35 Didn't get into it until after Canada ceased to be 00:51:50 I think elliott brought me into Canada 00:51:54 Sgeo: i cannot find the quote either 00:52:08 We should find logs1 00:52:27 of what, ircnomic? 00:52:33 most of it was just Vorpal ruining everything :) 00:53:57 Sgeo: grepping implies "should not exist" does not exist in that archive 00:54:05 oh wait 00:54:10 it was must 00:54:27 doesn't exist either 00:54:39 oerjan: btw ISIDTID = I Say I Do Therefore I Do, it's an Agoran idiom 00:54:45 oerjan: e.g. someone posting "I win." 00:54:47 elliott, I meant of #esoteric hearing of IRCnomic 00:54:52 that's an example of ISIDTID 00:54:54 elliott: someone already said that 00:54:59 Sgeo: um ihope mentioned it right before I entered 00:55:03 #esoteric created it 00:55:04 oerjan: right 00:55:12 oerjan: there's also ATEOISIDTIDWHPAFALT 00:55:24 oerjan: "A typical example of "I say I do, therefore I do", which has plagued Agora for a long time.", first said by Kelly 00:55:30 (note: nobody actually says that :D) 00:55:39 IYSS 00:55:45 OK 00:55:46 oh wait 00:55:49 (for O KAY :P) 00:55:53 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 00:56:06 oerjan: wait, did NttPF/TTttPF exist in your time? 00:56:37 oerjan: ("Not to the Public Forum" i.e. you posted to agora-discussion, you dummy, and "This time to the Public Forum" (said when quoting an NttPF'd message to have it take place)) 00:58:02 I'd love to see someone NttPF in ##nomic 00:58:04 they're making a documentary about Turing? great! 00:58:18 Sgeo: well ##not-a-cow was an Agoran Public Forum for all of a few hours 00:58:25 I just thought of something inappropriate I could have said 00:58:33 ... 00:58:44 ooh 00:58:56 oerjan: ? 00:59:02 i didn't realize there were full mailing list digests there as well 00:59:21 oerjan: can I convince you to subscribe to the Agoran lists as a daily digest? :D 00:59:22 "elliott, apple?" 00:59:23 well "full" for when they were made 00:59:34 Sgeo: that would be more inappropriate if it made any sense 00:59:34 elliott: absolutely not 00:59:38 oerjan: weekly? 00:59:51 elliott, I got this idea in my head that Turing poisoned himself with an apple 00:59:56 Sgeo: Yes, he did. 01:00:01 "this idea in my head" :P 01:00:12 elliott, as in, I don't know if it's true 01:00:15 It is. 01:00:23 I wasn't certain when I said it 01:00:28 Sgeo: After being persecuted by the government for being gay and forced to take oestrogen (which caused him to grow breasts among other things). 01:00:35 "must not exist" does not exist in the digests either 01:00:42 I did know that he comitted suicide 01:00:52 Just didn't know whether "by apple" was some story or not 01:00:57 ais523's memory is FAULTY, i tell ya! 01:01:06 he's a LIAR! 01:01:07 and a crook! 01:01:15 And weights the same as a duck! 01:04:14 is the fact that i can grep the frc ftp archives directly on disk making me mad with power? only time will tell. 01:04:20 *weighs 01:04:24 oerjan: rm * 01:04:37 not _that_ mad. 01:05:15 oh and the digests are not owned by my user, only the summary directory 01:07:55 hmm, wtf happened 01:09:24 spam saves lives! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/8284279/Black-Widow-attempted-New-Year-Moscow-attack-but-blew-herself-up-by-mistake.html 01:09:42 :D 01:11:05 qpqpqp 01:11:11 got a 404 01:11:25 qpqpqpqpq 01:11:31 hmm wtf is going on here 01:11:40 my code is kosher 01:11:59 elliott: that's it, it's refusing to work on a saturday 01:12:07 :D 01:12:17 i think i'm going to shoot myself 01:12:24 that would solve this problem! 01:14:51 http://www.mojang.com/notch/j4k2k6/dachon4k/ he stole asteroids ii 01:18:22 this shit is seriously fucked. 01:18:26 YEAH I SAID IT 01:18:53 HEY GUYS: Sociopath is htapoicos spelled backwards! 01:19:02 ohhhh 01:19:05 Gregor: OMG. 01:19:10 O 01:19:11 M 01:19:11 G 01:23:19 Gregor: ...gonna follow up on that? :P 01:23:44 Nope. 01:24:09 -!- elliott has changed nick to htapoicos. 01:25:19 Wow... bash's "<<-" only supports literal tab characters. 01:35:32 @hoogle <<- 01:35:32 No results found 01:35:54 shocking! 01:36:46 oerjan: WE MUST INVENT MORE OPERATORS QUICKLY 01:45:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:45:46 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:08:15 -!- htapoicos has changed nick to elliott. 02:10:49 -!- GermainAdrian has joined. 02:11:07 what is the meaning of this chat? 02:11:42 GermainAdrian: definitely _not_ programming 02:11:49 not at _all_ the esoteric kind 02:12:10 According to the topic, it's chlorine. 02:12:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:12:19 GermainAdrian: The purpose is various things, who knows 02:12:23 Apparently people in Europe fear chlorine. 02:12:27 Discuss. 02:12:28 why? 02:12:38 i wanted to discuss most esoteric things. 02:12:41 O'Brien Must Suffer! 02:12:42 chlorine is rather mundane. 02:13:01 What about Bromine? 02:13:02 i don't fear chlorine. much. 02:13:09 as long as it's not in gas form. 02:13:09 GermainAdrian: The channel is for esoteric computer programming, but they discuss a lot of things in here of various things that have nothing to do with esoteric or with programming. 02:13:25 oerjan: Do you use bleach? I'm told that using chlorine bleach is an almost-exclusively American thing, but all my Euro friends are crazy. 02:13:42 bromine is good in low doses. 02:13:51 -!- Gregor has set topic: Esoteric and chlorinated programming | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://example.com. 02:13:55 Isn't Beach+Ammonia dangerous? Or is it something else that I'm thinking of 02:13:58 as for chlorine bleach, ive heard its nice to mix it with some strong vinegar 02:14:10 sgeo: beach+acetic acid 02:14:11 this channel is actually about cooking 02:14:16 sorry if I mislead you GermainAdrian 02:14:32 This channel is about cooking, which is why I am not in this channel. 02:14:37 I don't eat. 02:14:45 Cooking with chlorine! Discuss. 02:15:10 cooking people with chlorine 02:15:12 disgust 02:15:16 hehe 02:15:17 Gregor: hm my mom used to use chlorine bleach but i'm mostly going with something called JIF, don't really recall what it contains 02:15:40 oerjan: dead kitten juice 02:15:52 GermainAdrian: no but seriously, this channel is about esoteric programming languages. 02:15:53 just kidding! 02:17:38 oerjan: Do your washing machines have this crazy "cook" mode I'm told of? Maybe that's just some crazy German thing ... 02:18:20 To...cook food in your washing machine? 02:18:37 Gregor: there's a 95 degree mode, yes. i only use it when the machine starts smelling (the manual said to do that to clean it properly) not for actual laundry 02:18:50 *degree celsius 02:19:03 elliott: One of the German postdocs here claims that instead of using chlorine bleach, they use "cook" mode, which is apparently somehow just as good for whites. Idonnowtf. 02:19:15 Gregor: :what: 02:19:22 anyway chlorine on clothes sounds like an excellent stupid idea 02:19:28 ok it's not a mode it's a dial which goes up to 95 02:19:29 do you guys...do that? 02:19:38 elliott: wtfman bleach = chlorine (usually) 02:19:45 95 celseijiserus? yow 02:19:58 Gregor: well okay yes... i'm scared of bleach though 02:20:13 elliott: Wuss. I drink the stuff. Just to prove my might. 02:20:13 bleach is for cleaning toilets and nothing else :P 02:20:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:20:33 Gregor: i understand one is _theoretically_ supposed to use it for white linen or underwear or something but i never go above 60 anyway 02:20:44 modern washing powder doesn't need it, i think 02:21:20 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:21:40 are you all at least somewhat serious? 02:21:50 GermainAdrian: almost never serious 02:22:02 ok sometimes pikhq drags in political or law talk 02:22:41 i suppose you could call actual pasted programming code serious 02:24:15 Insanity: Trying to use debootstrap to capture a copy of wine and JUST its dependencies (not bash, coreutils, etc) 02:24:35 Gregor: wat. 02:25:25 elliott: It appears not to be working :P 02:25:35 Gregor: Why would you do that. 02:25:42 Lindows 2.0? :P 02:26:09 elliott: Because wine can't be compiled statically and qemu-usermode doesn't need bash. 02:26:32 (But wine has a fuckton of dependencies, so gathering them all = nightmare) 02:26:33 Gregor: WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACHIEVE, FOUL DEMON? 02:26:41 elliott: Windows binaries on Pandora :P 02:26:48 Gregor: FOUL 02:26:50 Gregor: DEMON 02:40:43 i hate make 02:40:45 thought you should all know 02:42:10 duly noted 02:48:05 -!- Slereah has joined. 02:49:46 this doesn't work why doesn't this work 02:50:10 i _told_ you kosher software doesn't work on the sabbath 02:51:33 i made it unkosher 02:51:45 ah. 02:54:21 hm how do you get from foo.bar -> foo in bash? 02:56:04 I NEED ANSWERS PEOPLE 02:57:13 FFFFFFFFF 02:59:36 And there's now another person who seems to want me out of her life 03:00:17 [Not that she was ever in my life really. She does have some good reasons to dislike me. But today, I spontaneously decided to apologize for something that.. wasn't one of those reasons] 03:01:02 Sgeo: PLEASE GET A FUCKING BLOG 03:01:33 Sgeo: you mean the religious one? 03:01:39 copumpkin, no 03:01:42 or, if you prefer, post stuff here, because we don't really mind 03:02:00 a twitter account is also good 03:02:08 If I were certain the religious one didn't want to talk to me again, I'd be miserable right now 03:02:09 * copumpkin uses it to post all sorts of shit his followers don't care about 03:02:15 Not thinking "Hmm, maybe that was stupid of me" 03:02:26 i only tweet interesting things 03:02:31 damn 03:02:39 I should follow your example 03:02:51 or, if you prefer, post stuff here, because we don't really mind 03:02:53 no we really do 03:03:05 pay no attention to elliott 03:03:11 pay ALL the attention to me! 03:03:16 he's just bummed he can't use #esoteric as his own brainfarting ground 03:03:22 as he usually does 03:03:31 psht i can do that even with Sgeo liveblogging 03:03:42 Sgeo: go, tell me about your day, and I'll talk about my feud with gnu make 03:03:46 THIS IS ON 03:04:22 elliott, I'd treat that the same way I'd treat anything that mildly, but not completely, bores me. Ask about interesting or weird stuff, and just ignore the rest 03:04:34 Sgeo: TELL ME ABOUT THE 03:04:34 WILDEST 03:04:35 TIMES 03:04:37 all of them 03:04:38 all of the wildest times 03:04:44 so anyway gnu make fails at variable substitution and i hate it 03:04:48 i'm thinking about killing it? it's possible 03:05:07 Some things I have no intention of revealing on IRC, believe it or not. 03:05:16 ok well 03:05:21 the SUBWILDEST TIMES 03:07:07 why not? do we know too much about you already? 03:07:18 we know 03:07:19 his SECRETS 03:08:12 No you don't. 03:08:35 then feel free to tell us all kinds of stuff 03:08:45 if we don't know enough to trace it back to you, who cares? 03:08:52 Sgeo: There's thinks you don't reveal on IRC? 03:08:57 News to me. 03:08:59 Things, even. 03:09:14 Mostly past stuff, really 03:09:35 quintopia, let's see. This channel knows my name, age, and where I go to college. 03:10:05 There's actually not a whole lot I feel like *not* mentioning on IRC. 03:10:14 also the entire details of your relationship with katie at the alluded-to female 03:10:34 elliott, "entire" LOL 03:10:43 Passwords? Some of my tastes in porn? Oh, and anything that's just too fucking boring. 03:10:59 I don't know any of those 03:11:08 copumpkin: you haven't been paying enough attention! 03:11:20 copumpkin: (Seth Gold, 21, Farmingdale SUNY, and she thinks vitamin c cures cancer) 03:11:25 lol 03:11:32 how about passwords and porn 03:11:49 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:57 don't tell me 03:12:00 I also have pictures of Seth Gold. 03:12:05 it's just creepy if he isn't here 03:12:15 so wait 03:12:21 he has his initials in his nick? 03:12:24 creative 03:12:30 my nick is related to my name too 03:12:37 quintopia: oh i just kinda noticed that 03:12:37 it's a very profound relationship 03:12:42 i don't know if that's intentional though 03:12:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:12:47 Granted, it's not hard to get pictures of someone you've friended on Facebook. 03:12:47 SETHGOLD SETGOL SEGO SGEO 03:13:10 It is, in fact, fucking easy. 03:13:19 no it's impossible! 03:13:23 i should friend him on facebook. 03:13:27 shockingly, my nick is also related to my name 03:13:41 I would have never guessed that, Ørjan Johansen. 03:13:42 elliott, it's intentional 03:13:55 Seth Gold sEth gOld 03:13:56 oerjan: indeed, Orkney Ecclesiastical Ruckus Johnny Ackermann Nullified 03:13:58 OMG YOU BLEW IT! 03:14:02 elliott: :D 03:14:05 Sgeo: wow that is the worst nickname creation ever 03:14:07