< 1296777644 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have more I want to say
< 1296777672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/StapleStupdity_censored.JPG
< 1296777678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, is stupid here?
< 1296777733 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000 staples, 210 in each block?
< 1296777741 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[I don't remember what it says, I can't read it]
< 1296777753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Staples have no brain, they are inherently stupid.
< 1296777764 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't have a while number things of 210 and have that add up to 5000
< 1296777802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whole
< 1296777815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for
< 1296777828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Staples have no brain, they are inherently stupid.
< 1296777828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> *whole
< 1296777828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> *for
< 1296777829 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and worse is that the association between wheat and various diseases doesn't seem to have much contribution from confounders (of course, being epidemiological in nature, you can never eliminate confounders).
< 1296777848 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*completely eliminate
< 1296777861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for
< 1296777862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whole
< 1296777865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*comlepetly
< 1296777868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, actually, serious question.
< 1296777894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have repeatedly shown that you had an interest in mathematics when younger, but you don't evidence this any more.
< 1296777931 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, see HRT).
< 1296777945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what are you going on about HRT for.
< 1296778002 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I think partly, it was deciding that I'm not particularly likely to succeed in doing novel stuff, and partly not having ready access to infinite pen and paper, and partly constant Internet access, maybe
< 1296778039 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have some interest
< 1296778053 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just there's nothing to play with, and no suitable environment
< 1296778079 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hormone Replacement Therapy is good example of how epidemiological studies can go wrong. Basically, a therapy that seemed to be benefical based on epidemiological studies. It was introduced to wide use based on that evidence. Then clinical trials were done on its effectiveness. It turned to be actually deadly.
< 1296778133 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296778186 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, an increased risk of cancer does not count as deadly.
< 1296778187 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral of the story: Even if something seems harmful in epidemiological studies doesn't mean it is actually harmful. And if something seems benefical, it might not actually be. You need clinical trials (adjusting only single variable at a time!) to see if something is benefical, harmful or neutral.
< 1296778318 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and also poking at the relvant biochemistry can be helpful.
< 1296778355 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus the rather impressive correlation coefficients between wheat and heart disease say nothing more than that the reasons behind the link should be investigated as there may very well be something interesting...
< 1296778363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Ilari, an increased risk of cancer does not count as deadly.
< 1296778364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1296778394 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Heart Disease and Stroke.
< 1296778406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not "deadly".
< 1296778427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my impression is that the increased risk of cancer does not come near outweighing the definite gain in quality of life it gives.
< 1296778452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Phantom_Hoover would know!
< 1296778460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH
< 1296778461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNAPPETH
< 1296778474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I am sourcing this from parents who are doctors.
< 1296778497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably doctors who inject people with cancer because they're evil.
< 1296778506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confirm? Or deny? Or just confirm?
< 1296778516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even if something is clinical study, don't assume it is done well. Garbage studies that change N + 1 variables and then blame 1 for the difference are dime dozen.
< 1296778535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it was predicted in 1990 that IPv4 would be exhausted circa 2011.
< 1296778543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must have seemed pretty far off...
< 1296778556 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something tells me that in "Gnomeo and Juliet" (*vomits*) the title characters don't die tragically.
< 1296778594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've seen two adverts for that so far and I just want to cry.
< 1296778595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Endlessly.
< 1296778601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But oh god, I hope they do.
< 1296778604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be amazing.
< 1296778609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although I'm not sure I agree with "tragically".
< 1296778611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try "moronically".
< 1296778618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this thing?
< 1296778618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gnomeo & Juliet
< 1296778618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A version of Shakespeare's play, set in the world of warring indoor and outdoor gnomes."
< 1296778621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnomeo?
< 1296778622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THE WORST.
< 1296778627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO NOT GET IT
< 1296778630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Patrick Stewart as William Shakespeare"
< 1296778631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DID YOU AGREE
< 1296778632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY
< 1296778633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY
< 1296778634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY
< 1296778635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PATRICK
< 1296778635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY
< 1296778639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1296778645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sobs
< 1296778680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hulk Hogan as Terrafirmenator"
< 1296778681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::what:
< 1296778705 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this increased risk of cancer stuff for all hormone replacement therapy?
< 1296778707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM CLOSE TO GOOGLING AND I DO NOT WANT TO
< 1296778714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THEY GOT PATRICK STEWART
< 1296778716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOBODY CAN SURVIVE
< 1296778806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1296778806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> parse pUL "foo" "(~~)"
< 1296778807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left "foo" (line 1, column 4):
< 1296778807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected ')'
< 1296778807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting "~", ":", "!", "*", "a", "^", "S", "(" or end of input
< 1296778807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> parse pUL "foo" "(~~"
< 1296778808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left "foo" (line 1, column 4):
< 1296778810 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296778811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected end of input
< 1296778813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting ")"
< 1296778816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME
< 1296778850 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e82c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296778853 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, don't expect balanced discussion of *anything* on wikipedia (some subjects are better, some worse in this regard).
< 1296778875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia isn't for discussion.
< 1296778880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an encyclopedia.
< 1296778882 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:34:48 <Sgeo_> Is this increased risk of cancer stuff for all hormone replacement therapy? ← menopausal is the only one I'm sure about.
< 1296778894 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, don't execpt balanced discussion of anything anywhere....
< 1296778901 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that is because you hold a crank position, and WP is sane through force of numbers.
< 1296778919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ISN'T THIS WORKING WHYYY
< 1296778938 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Crowsourcing" only works if there is no systematic bias.
< 1296778939 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE YOU EAT TOO MUCH WHEAT WITH HRT IN IT
< 1296778948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHeaRT.
< 1296778980 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Ilari's position? "Wheat is bad"?
< 1296778984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS THIS SO BROKEN
< 1296779036 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is actually healthy food to eat? What causes the current epidemics of obesity, diabetes, etc... Nobody knows. There are only some reasonable (and lots of unreasonable) suspicions...
< 1296779066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is films about gnomes.
< 1296779068 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228060211.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296779098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's certainly not *solely* wheat. Especially as in centuries past, wheat was a *very* large portion of the common diet in many cultures.
< 1296779101 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1296779113 0 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296779123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheat is pretty tasty. Adding a data point here.
< 1296779142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sugar's at least plausible — we certainly use much more of it than we did even, say, 50 years ago.
< 1296779143 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T THINK THIS ROUTER LIKES ME VERY MUCH
< 1296779175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the US, at least, you can probably put a lot of the blame on portion sizes.
< 1296779216 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, nutrient defiencies can play pretty major roles. Modern agriculture really depletes the soil. Fertilizers only make the plants grow well, they don't add the various trace elements, so the result is food becoming weaker and weaker in nutrients.
< 1296779238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/CountryFriedSteak.jpg This is a deep-fried steak. And yes, it is sufficiently large to count as its own plate.
< 1296779254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Though there was quite a lot of nutrient deficiency in the past as well.
< 1296779258 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296779277 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, grains are poor sources of nutrients anyway.
< 1296779289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/CountryFriedSteak.jpg This is a deep-fried steak. And yes, it is sufficiently large to count as its own plate.
< 1296779291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vomit
< 1296779299 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, DEEP FRIED PIZZA
< 1296779300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably more than there is now.
< 1296779309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Chicken fried steak is actually freaking delicious.
< 1296779311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try a deep-fried Mars bar at some point. :p
< 1296779323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not stopping vomiting.
< 1296779323 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been eating Snickers and Milky Ways
< 1296779341 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and people also subjected grains to pretty heavy processing in the past (that's not done anymore)...
< 1296779356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oh?
< 1296779365 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That actually improves nutrient bioavailablity a lot.
< 1296779396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that our processing was pretty similar to what was done in the past, modulo food industry's fondness for sticking chemicals in it for the sake of the bottom line.
< 1296779416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS SO FAIL I MIGHT CRY
< 1296779422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?
< 1296779426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parsec parser
< 1296779428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work
< 1296779432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1296779436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should fix it
< 1296779441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05.11.08:16:15:39 <beerkills> Sgeo
< 1296779441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05.11.08:16:15:59 <beerkills> I call myself Sgeo everywhere but Freenode
< 1296779561 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, the amounts of nutrients actually in there were much better in the past...
< 1296779577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What, exactly, processing was done previously that isn't now?
< 1296779594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEAR PROCESSING
< 1296779607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on ipv6 depletion: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/feijg/no_unicast_ipv4_8s_remain_unallocated/c1fbsv8
< 1296779620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects that it has something to do with how a lot of the industrial food BS that's available also doesn't *taste* any good.
< 1296779623 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soaking, sprouting, fermenting (etc...)
< 1296779654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could've sworn that was all rather commonly done to grain still.
< 1296779659 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and processed food tends to be really crap in nutrients (just see the amount of processed crap people eat).
< 1296779679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I came here to kick ass and assign IPv4 addresses, and I'm all out of IPv4 addresses." --reddit
< 1296779689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, yeah, I will agree that modern agriculture sucks.
< 1296779690 0 :Phantom__Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296779692 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Fermenting is commonly done to one of the grains.
< 1296779727 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now that an alternative to that exists...
< 1296779729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it produces a *fuckton* of food, but it produces shitty food in a manner that we *can't* keep doing.
< 1296779758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What, are they doing chemical leavening for bread instead of yeast?
< 1296779792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: If so, no *wonder* store-bought white bread has such a bizarre texture. In addition to being the blandest bread ever.
< 1296779829 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe... But leavening using yeast doesn't count as heavy processing.
< 1296779847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fermentation.
< 1296779879 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And IIRC, chemical leavening is widely used...
< 1296779951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who do I blame for this not working
< 1296779953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i blame Ilari!
< 1296779977 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, of the four main grains, only rye is difficult to bake into bread without fermenting it...
< 1296780027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Well, I don't think I've ever had rye bread anywhere *near* as terrible as the shitty white bread you get on store shelves.
< 1296780053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell do they get that shit so dry, anyways? And bland? I swear, hard tack is better.
< 1296780057 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :White rye bread is new invention (and thus not widely manufactured).
< 1296780066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not even joking.)
< 1296780133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe this is better
< 1296780138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is
< 1296780147 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and processed food manufacturers employ scientists and I expect those companies to know what they are doing...
< 1296780162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, hard tack isn't all that bad, really. If you don't like your teeth that much. :P
< 1296780183 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the chemical preseervatives extend the shelf life for so long that it tastes bland and dry?
< 1296780222 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Properly baked bread goes stale very quick.
< 1296780243 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296780309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Hard tack isn't very chemical afaic...
< 1296780339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*afaik...
< 1296780343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Store-shelf white bread is very chemical.
< 1296780348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hARD TACK ISN'T :p
< 1296780362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard tack is flour and water.
< 1296780381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo it works
< 1296780382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda
< 1296780452 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fast that day after it is baked it is a lot worse than the day it was baked. And the day after that it is almost inedible. Complare this to how long store-brought breads last...
< 1296780503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand after that, well, there's a reason we've got croutons, fried bread, bread pudding, etc.
< 1296780658 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, making one eat lots of food involves screwing up or bypassing normal metabolic controls... And that's not a good thing....
< 1296780672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the BEST thing!
< 1296780799 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/zee5ghosts.ogg Opinions?
< 1296780823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insufficiently superturing
< 1296780826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wil llisten later :P
< 1296780828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*will listen
< 1296780853 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions are not restricted to elliott :P
< 1296780853 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296780858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES THEY ARE
< 1296780868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can only conclude that you should learn every instrument, and never have to use synths again.
< 1296780881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can't even snap.
< 1296780908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only conclude that you need to be filthy rich, and thereby become the patron of an orchestra.
< 1296780941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it counts as a patron if I force them to play only my shit :P
< 1296781000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dictator.
< 1296781013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it probably doesn't count as a patron.
< 1296781031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly you should be supreme overlord of all.
< 1296781057 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could work with that.
< 1296781210 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296781512 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv4 RIR status (according to inetcore depletion counter): ARIN at 4%, APNIC at 7%, RIPE at 10%, LACNIC at 25%, AFRINIC at 53%.
< 1296781756 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-14-92.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296781788 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1296781802 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to latest unallocated file, there are 442 414 552 IPv4 addresses unallocated.
< 1296781964 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking set-aside policies into account, there are about 382 645 720...
< 1296781993 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296782176 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are playing a chess variant, where the queen cannot capture (or give check/mate) but stops all adjacent pieces (of any color) from capturing. If your opponent has only one king and nothing else, you have one king and some queens, how many queens do you need to win?
< 1296782179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t index
< 1296782180 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ix a) => (a, a) -> a -> Int
< 1296782199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t indexOf
< 1296782200 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `indexOf'
< 1296782204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> a -> Int
< 1296782205 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List elemIndex :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int
< 1296782205 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List elemIndices :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> [Int]
< 1296782205 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BufferType buf_concat :: BufferOp a -> [a] -> a
< 1296782219 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't a very good answer!
< 1296782221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nub "aabc"
< 1296782222 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "abc"
< 1296782224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sry
< 1296782284 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am pleased to learn that to you she is nothing but a platonic solid."
< 1296782287 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fiveminute.net/ds9/fiver.php?ep=thesearch2
< 1296782389 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1296782399 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to parody good fiction, I guess
< 1296782493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t elem
< 1296782494 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Eq a) => a -> [a] -> Bool
< 1296782759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, this is _tricky_
< 1296782879 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296782925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, too tricky
< 1296782930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait maybe i can
< 1296782930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1296782931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1296783189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296783464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/LPYO
< 1296783474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think using ints as my references is hampering this code's elegance somewhat. :p
< 1296783503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, and my parse accepts ( because of my Invalid rule...
< 1296783567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (")S
< 1296783567 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1296783577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Your Underload interpreter is non-compliant.
< 1296783616 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other people get annoyed that my programs follow the RFC.
< 1296783643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean?
< 1296783654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do they get annoyed about?
< 1296783714 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most IRC servers and IRC clients do not even follow the specifications correctly.
< 1296783732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they get annoyed?
< 1296783742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523-logreading: btw my compiler now supports "[, "], "<, ">, and "", making it the first compliant Underload parser ever... I'll probably remove it due to it being a pain, though :P
< 1296783773 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you make it a command-line switch then? Instead of just putting it in and then removing it.
< 1296783790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, not even the reference interpreter supports that, so I think it is not part of the language.
< 1296784045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other way is write programs that do not use []<>" and then it doesn't matter.
< 1296784052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: finish my program!
< 1296784059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think any existing program does actually
< 1296784089 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then it is good, because it doesn't matter. If some programs do have to, the implementations or the documentations (or both) can be adjusted.
< 1296784109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "official" spec (the wiki page) says it's arguably not part of the language anyway.
< 1296784111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1296784241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/svn/esofiles/underload/impl/stringie.c wow this must be slow
< 1296784816 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296785049 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296785138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh *joy* it is broked
< 1296785143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's right
< 1296785144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broked
< 1296785147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that's not a word? well fuck you.
< 1296785185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1296785186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1296785205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1296785207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1296785208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit...
< 1296785238 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1296785263 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296785571 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a word. you meant borked.
< 1296785621 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you have a shell script for sprunge so you don't have to write out the whole curl -F everytime you want to sprunge?
< 1296785633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, I just write it out ... but it's easy enough to do
< 1296785639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias sprunge="curl -F 'sprunge=<-' sprunge.us"
< 1296785642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 'sprunge <file' works
< 1296785689 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx imma do that
< 1296785693 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1296785711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hammer: apply directly to the forhead.
< 1296785715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/for/fore/
< 1296785716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat
< 1296785720 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it spr instead :P
< 1296785725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, call it sprunge
< 1296785737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: or "pb" if you must
< 1296785740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PasteBin)
< 1296785744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even paste
< 1296785753 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1296785757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste is a POSIX util.
< 1296785768 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pb anything?
< 1296785782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but now you need j.
< 1296785785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pb&j
< 1296785792 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lead and j..?
< 1296785797 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pb is a daemon necessary for j to operate
< 1296785807 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disarghree
< 1296785836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: But then pb&j is a valid command ...
< 1296785836 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1296785842 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biscuit&j also works fine
< 1296785854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Paste is a rather useless posix util. :p
< 1296785996 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is zeotrope known as anything else?
< 1296786009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not AFAIK, why?
< 1296786100 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i just have a copy of a portion of logs i made for zzo back when you were alise, and zeotrope was in it, and i was like "i haven't seen that one in a while"
< 1296786340 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My step-mother's here
< 1296786346 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I locked myself in my room
< 1296786364 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hello
< 1296786940 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@host-193-214.readingconnect.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296787056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: haha
< 1296787074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: get the hg logs, they're the NEW THING
< 1296787084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG SONiVOX HAS THE BEST EFFING ACCORDION EVER
< 1296787124 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: what about the bongos
< 1296787170 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those would be in percussion somewhere, and I'm not willing to look for them :P
< 1296787236 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com
< 1296787569 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST
< 1296787571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACCORDION
< 1296787572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER
< 1296787588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used VSTi accordions. THEY CAN SUCK IT
< 1296787596 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove it
< 1296787602 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a piece for accordion only
< 1296787732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bongoccordians
< 1296787732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE I WILL
< 1296787749 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYMPHONY FOR 15 ACCORDIONS
< 1296787756 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 bongo
< 1296787806 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1296787899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no1
< 1296787900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no
< 1296787902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 accordians
< 1296787903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 15 bongos
< 1296788218 0 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-56-193.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296788244 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Infinite Bongos Project
< 1296788277 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1296788480 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Farewell
< 1296788756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:42:09 <GregorR> Yeah, Javascript is bad ...
< 1296788758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^
< 1296788760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(circa 2005)
< 1296788771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While talking about Firefox 1.5 :lol2005:
< 1296788774 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-253-210.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296788783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite probably JavaScript was bad in FF1.5
< 1296788804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1296788815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually it was in response to someone yaying at the fact that Firefox 2.0 would support Python scripting (???).
< 1296788820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO THAT WAS A COMMENT ON THE LANGUAGE AND YOU CAN'T AVOID IT
< 1296788846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) It could have been sarcastic, B) that was five years ago, C) I've never liked Python, so see (A)
< 1296788913 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Five to six)
< 1296788937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It waaasn't sarcaaaastic~~~~~~~~
< 1296788953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:40:49 <Arrogant> Ah.
< 1296788953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:40:57 <Arrogant> Fx2 will have Python support.
< 1296788954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:00 <Arrogant> Or rather,
< 1296788954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:03 <Arrogant> Gecko 1.9 will.
< 1296788954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:22 <Arrogant> Which means that Chatzilla will become my new IRC client.
< 1296788954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:29 <GregorR> Awesome, gonna be scripting?
< 1296788956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:42 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/pics/3d/Trainer.jpg < Can you see the 3D phone? :P
< 1296788960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:51 <Arrogant> Oh, definitely. The only thing keeping me from writing Chatzilla scripts is that it is in JAVASCRIPT.
< 1296788963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:41:53 <Arrogant> And I hate Javascript.
< 1296788965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:42:09 <GregorR> Yeah, Javascript is bad ...
< 1296788967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:42:49 * Arrogant checks the mimetype of said link
< 1296788969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:42:50 <Arrogant> ;)
< 1296788971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:42:54 <Arrogant> Okay safe.
< 1296788973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:43:12 <GregorR> It's just a jpeg :P
< 1296788975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor takes my mocking so seriously.
< 1296788977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am but a humble logreader.
< 1296789002 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eh*
< 1296789112 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be sarcastic
< 1296789184 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4f969.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296789188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh maaaaaaaaan
< 1296789193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will CRINGE with the accordion awesomeness.
< 1296789193 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1296789197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1296789206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so good it's so bad it's so good.
< 1296789223 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I feel that it's a little bit out of tune, and yet it sounds magnificent :P
< 1296789260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> test "asdaskdl^"
< 1296789260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define TYPE_0 T_QUOT
< 1296789260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STR_0 "asdaskdl^"
< 1296789260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case 0 : quo_0 :
< 1296789260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENCLOSE INVALID("sd") ENCLOSE INVALID("skdl") TAIL_INCLUDE
< 1296789261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EPILOGUE
< 1296789263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooooooooooooooo
< 1296789290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually EPILOGUE is just "return;" :P
< 1296789299 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this ... some two-language quine in development or something?
< 1296789309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, this is my Underload compiler reborn.
< 1296789318 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P
< 1296789323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first line is the GHCi prompt :P
< 1296789335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for, uhh, all the data structures, all the operations, and all the optimisations (e.g. number handling).
< 1296789336 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only reason I thought two-language.
< 1296789336 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: don't forget the bongos
< 1296789346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, it parses!
< 1296789348 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'm just adapting zee1 to new instruments here :P
< 1296789357 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, only one new instrument)
< 1296789358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MAKE HALF OF THEM BONGOS
< 1296789386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This program is great, I have a constructor called FActual.
< 1296789387 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^
< 1296789391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so factual.
< 1296789423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worry that GCing this will be a bitch...
< 1296789466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Gregor, how easy is it to use GREGOR'S GENERIC GENERATIONAL GARBAGE-GARGLING GORGEMEISTER GETTYSBURG-ADDRESSING GAY GAYNESS COLLECTOR.
< 1296789477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't actually want an answer, I just had to do that.)
< 1296789498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy enough *shrugs*
< 1296789518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Easy enough when the language you're implementing isn't almost inherently memory-leaky :P
< 1296789537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, technically, the actual language itself can be done without even refcounting, pop is just a free.
< 1296789550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in this impl it's basically a linked-list on acid.
< 1296789565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might want some kind of periodic "compact lists into one element" thing...
< 1296789630 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/zee1zomgccordian.ogg (Opens with awesome zomgccordion even :P )
< 1296789650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: More bongos
< 1296789654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE FUCKING BONGOS
< 1296789675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I think Gregor might be having trouble interpreting us.
< 1296789678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ltt's try it again.
< 1296789680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: MORE
< 1296789682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FUCKING
< 1296789683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BONGOS
< 1296789691 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH
< 1296789695 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I get it
< 1296789696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to fuck a bongo.
< 1296789705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.
< 1296789718 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll listen after color wheel
< 1296789726 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :color wheel is the best a capella song ever
< 1296789956 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296790656 0 :jordotech!~jordo@cpe-66-69-221-52.austin.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296790730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do most package managers have global locks? It's really irritating.
< 1296790733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know Portage doesn't.)
< 1296790855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, Portage does have a global lock, I thought.
< 1296790885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, you can install two packages simultaneously.
< 1296790894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it locks during merge.
< 1296790896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the actual installing part might be locked but that's insignificant compared to downloading and compiling.
< 1296790903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With apt, it won't even download if another apt is running.
< 1296790930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, locking during the actual merge is just reasonably sane.
< 1296790959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Furball has no locks! Hooray!
< 1296790990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Kitten's pkg manager.)
< 1296791087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have I mentioned that KITTEN COMES WITH GHC. (OK, OK, Kitten comes with GHC if you install my nebulous concept of a system package, which includes a window manager and an IRC client; I'm not sure why anyone would install it unless that person was me.)
< 1296791118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still.
< 1296791122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any OS that comes with GHC is PERFECT!
< 1296791233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh, the things I do to please my future users, and pikhq doesn't even REACT.
< 1296791280 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1296791313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll shoot him.
< 1296791391 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@p4FF69235.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296791404 0 :azaq231!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1296791404 0 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296791410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is dead.
< 1296791413 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296791423 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296791445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :husìtu!
< 1296791463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP TALKING MOON LANGUAGE, AMERICAN
< 1296791488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ketòkètukènnkòkàsukità
< 1296791492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my IRC client architecture would actually be low-latency enough ...
< 1296791518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How fast are the FUSE filesystems to mount ssh filesystems?
< 1296791554 0 :jordotech!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1296791571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> hurr i cant speek
< 1296791576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Reasonably speedy, really.
< 1296791587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Speedy enough to tunnel all IRC traffic over?
< 1296791602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'd even be noticable.
< 1296791636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Consider doing "tail -f foo" and also writing to a FIFO, in an sshfs. Think the latency will be even barely noticeable vs. connecting unencrypted to a bouncer on the same server, reading the same data, and writing the same?
< 1296791645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, well, maybe tail -f foo is not such a good idea, since it is based on polling...
< 1296791659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's possible to make a tail -f alike that doesn't poll though.
< 1296791680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is based on polling right?)
< 1296791853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY PIKHQ THAT WAS A QUESTION
< 1296791859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to think that maybe you're not actually Pikachu.
< 1296791863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikachu knows all about this stuff.
< 1296791996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hìka?
< 1296792028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hì-kâtiȳû!
< 1296792086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> (it is based on polling right?)
< 1296792089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer in Pika.
< 1296792095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hìkahìka.
< 1296792141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is possible to make a tail -f alike that does not use polling right? ANSWER IN PIKA
< 1296792178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hì-hì-hì-, hì-ka'tiȳu!
< 1296792209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1296792215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ì/į/g
< 1296792220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms
< 1296792228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I have absolutely no idea how you would express "no" in this manner.
< 1296792235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION zaps
< 1296792352 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: this zee song sounds like it could have been on the coraline soundtrack
< 1296792352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From this, I conclude that my almost direct clone of ii is not only the perfect IRC client, but the perfect bouncer, too.
< 1296792352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA
< 1296792412 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but the accordion is awesomesauce fo sho
< 1296792462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never watched Coraline :P
< 1296792470 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad
< 1296792473 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good movie
< 1296792483 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is Season 4 entirely about the conflict with the Xyvatbaf, or will there be at least some Dominion stuff?
< 1296792528 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i don't even remember how many seasons there were >_>
< 1296792544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7
< 1296792548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a zero
< 1296792551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70
< 1296792570 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i don't remember a lot of dominion stuff happening until the last couple of seasons
< 1296792745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should use computed gotos here...
< 1296792748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah.
< 1296793532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1296793554 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296793577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1296794826 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296795016 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296795263 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296795299 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296797058 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it Sarah McLaughlin, you make me want to strangle puppies SO MUCH
< 1296797271 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with strangling puppies?
< 1296797287 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touching those filthy animals with your own hands
< 1296797293 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's slightly worse than strangling kittens i suppose
< 1296797295 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1296797298 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just babies
< 1296797303 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not real dogs yet
< 1296797307 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're supposed to use at least a pair of gloves
< 1296797311 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, adults are worth more
< 1296797337 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus they come in litters of like 8
< 1296797348 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's one or two in the grand scheme?
< 1296797406 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296797413 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grande Scheme?
< 1296797430 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dogs are Lispers, I see
< 1296797431 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1296797435 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1296797463 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't brilliant enough to understand LOOP
< 1296797478 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, loop is a CLism, isn't it?
< 1296797484 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did Scheme even have that?
< 1296797489 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1296797502 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i consider CL LISP and scheme...scheme
< 1296797534 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since scheme is simpler, LISP is a scheme, but scheme is not quite a full LISP :P
< 1296797784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cat!
< 1296797854 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cats Gregor 
< 1296799163 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296799257 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296799940 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296800186 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1296800235 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1296800287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice xkcd today
< 1296800462 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296800468 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody happen to know of a FreeDesktop-aligned menu program that can run as a system tray applet?
< 1296800496 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1296800497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can guess what most of the words mean, does that count?
< 1296800514 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-185-157.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296800521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1296800602 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296800675 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296801545 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296801868 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296801879 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296803067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which DSPs are good to compute and output audio and video and programs can be compiled for them using GNU compiler?
< 1296803470 0 :azaq231!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1296804116 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296804205 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296804208 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g228060152.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296804535 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296804568 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38!
< 1296804591 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 * zzo37 * zzo36 * ...
< 1296804603 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1296804627 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are things in zzo38land?
< 1296804719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose GCC mainline targets any DSPs at all. The only DSP arch I'm personally any familiar with is TI's TMS320C* series, and I think there is some sort of an alpha-quality unofficial GCC port for the TMS320C6x (VLIW thingies) series.
< 1296804783 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if GCC mainline doesn't, it has to be one with Free assemblers/compilers that can program the device from any computer, and it has to be able to compute and output audio and video.
< 1296804811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People might be less motivated to work on the GCC port now that TI's released their compiler/assembler/linker kit with a free-as-in-beer-for-non-commercial-use license.
< 1296804902 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's no good; although maybe a new assembler can be written.
< 1296804910 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, does it do audio and video?
< 1296804940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a matter of supporting circuitry, really.
< 1296804979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just processes signals, after all.
< 1296805028 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But which ones would be good at doing audio and video?
< 1296805057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely seem to recall that there's some sort of open-source linux stuff for the older TMS320C54x parts; maybe even a simulator or something. But they might not be very good. (And I don't know if that thing has enough MIPS for serious video processing; I've only done audio stuff with it.)
< 1296805085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to go to prepare a lecture now. ->
< 1296805118 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need at least one channel of video output and two channels of audio output simultaneously.
< 1296805574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I said I need a GCC target for it, I was wrong. What I need is a Free assembler for it.
< 1296805584 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296805675 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296805681 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296805731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(!())^^!S
< 1296805731 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1296805735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)()^^!S
< 1296805735 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1296805744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::**::**)^^!S
< 1296805744 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9
< 1296805753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(:::***::**)^^!S
< 1296805753 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack!
< 1296805757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN
< 1296805781 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1296805795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::::****:*)^^!S
< 1296805795 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*(:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))))
< 1296805826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the carry obviously isn't working
< 1296806055 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :110.0
< 1296806102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):((~a(; )S:^):^~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::::****:*)^^!S
< 1296806102 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((~a(; )S:^):^~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*(:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))))
< 1296806129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):((~a(; )*S:^):^~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::::****:*)^^!S
< 1296806129 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((~a(; )*S:^):^~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*(:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))))
< 1296806205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):((~a(; )*S:^):^~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::::****:*)^^!^S
< 1296806205 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~a(; )*S:^):^~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*(:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^))))))))))
< 1296806224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):((~a(; )*S:^):^~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::::****:*)^^!^^S
< 1296806224 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a(:^)*():(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):^);  ...out of stack!
< 1296806345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::**::**)^^!S
< 1296806345 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9
< 1296806360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::**::**)^^!(~aS:^):^
< 1296806360 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(9)()((a(:^)*():(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):^)((~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*(:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))))) ...out of stack!
< 1296806372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::**::**)^^!(~a(; )*S:^):^
< 1296806372 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(9); (); ((a(:^)*():(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):^); ((~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*(:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^))))))))))));  ...out of stack!
< 1296806399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1296806400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296806412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*a~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::**::**)^^(~a(; )*S:^):^
< 1296806412 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!~:^); (9); (); ((a(:^)*():(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):^); ((~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*(:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^))))))))))));  ...out of stack!
< 1296806536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::**::**)^^!S
< 1296806536 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9
< 1296806541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(:::***::**)^^!S
< 1296806541 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12
< 1296806592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like works now.
< 1296806592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(:*)(:*)::**^^^!S
< 1296806593 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256
< 1296806602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep!
< 1296806780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)((~(, )*S^)~a*^:^):^
< 1296806780 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^))))))))),  ...bad insn!
< 1296806794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1296806805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~((~(, )*S^)~a*^:^):^
< 1296806806 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83 ...too much output!
< 1296806826 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is very good now.
< 1296806844 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is logged, now anyone can look it up.
< 1296806853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe it would be better to add it into the wiki.
< 1296806858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will
< 1296807019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)::::****:*((:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^))~^!S!!!
< 1296807019 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...too much stack!
< 1296807037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*):::***:*((:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^))~^!S!!!
< 1296807038 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...too much stack!
< 1296807041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1296807078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)::::****:*((:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^))~*^!S!!!
< 1296807078 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))
< 1296807102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)::::****:*((:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^))~*^^!S!!!
< 1296807102 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024
< 1296807117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)::::****:*((:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^))~*^^!S!!!!
< 1296807118 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 ...out of stack!
< 1296807145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now it cleans up after itself
< 1296807163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote on the Talk page, about a few thing  about church numbers
< 1296807530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)::::****:*(<-- Sample numeral (1024) to be printed)!((:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^))))))))))()!:(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^))~*^^!S!!!
< 1296807531 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024
< 1296807674 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1296807726 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1296807765 0 :comex!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296807849 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1296807901 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296807993 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1296808032 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1296808700 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329e3d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296809565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1296810114 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1296810298 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296810344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296810395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((::**)~^)((((:((0)(!(1)(!(2)(!(3)(!(4)(!(5)(!(6)(!(7)(!(8)(!9(_))))))))))(^))~*^^!S)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
< 1296810397 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3, 13, 1113, 3113, 132113, 1113122113, 311311222113, 13211321322113, 1113122113121113222113, 31131122211311123113322113, 132113213221133112132123222113, 11131221131211132221232112111312111213322113, 31131122211311123113321112131221123113111231121123222113, 132113213221133112132123123112111311222112 ...out of time!
< 1296810457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do it with 1 as the starting point?
< 1296810478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly
< 1296810488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (()~^)((((:((0)(!(1)(!(2)(!(3)(!(4)(!(5)(!(6)(!(7)(!(8)(!9(_))))))))))(^))~*^^!S)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
< 1296810489 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, 312211, 13112221, 1113213211, 31131211131221, 13211311123113112211, 11131221133112132113212221, 3113112221232112111312211312113211, 1321132132111213122112311311222113111221131221, 11131221131211131231121113112221121321132132211331222113112211, 3113112221131112311311121321123113213 ...out of time!
< 1296810524 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you have 456789 they will never occur in this sequence.
< 1296810553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: just in case someone wanted to use those in the initial condition
< 1296810568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK.
< 1296810575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((::**::**)~^)((((:((0)(!(1)(!(2)(!(3)(!(4)(!(5)(!(6)(!(7)(!(8)(!(9)(_))))))))))(^))~*^^!S)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
< 1296810576 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9, 19, 1119, 3119, 132119, 1113122119, 311311222119, 13211321322119, 1113122113121113222119, 31131122211311123113322119, 132113213221133112132123222119, 11131221131211132221232112111312111213322119, 31131122211311123113321112131221123113111231121123222119, 132113213221133112132123123112 ...out of time!
< 1296810590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realized there was a bug in the 9 there
< 1296810615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still cannot handle consecutive strings longer than 9 though
< 1296810620 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why should you use 0456789 in the initial condition?
< 1296810642 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, using a initial condition that can make 456789?
< 1296810656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to do.
< 1296810682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well the look-and-say iteration can work for any initial condition
< 1296810695 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible to prove that if you start with "1" then you can never get any digits other than 1,2,3 and that "333" cannot occur.
< 1296810705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i know
< 1296810715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has wikipedia's look-and-say page on his watchlist
< 1296810736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact i discussed it in the talk page of that
< 1296810755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well someone's misunderstanding of it, anyway
< 1296810775 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen this sequence known by many different things, but to me, it is just repeating run-length encoding.
< 1296810795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact any starting value other than 22 gives the same asymptotic growth and frequency of substrings
< 1296810822 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can you prove that too?
< 1296810824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah conway just spiced it up a bit with some strange terminology
< 1296810833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well more or less
< 1296810866 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The two things I have mentioned the proof of, I have even proved them myself, but surely many other people have proven them a long time ago)
< 1296810905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need the cosmological theorem to show that it splits into atoms, and then you see that all atoms other than 22 give all the 1,2,3-containing ones eventually
< 1296810934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that 4 and higher can only give a vanishingly small contribution eventually
< 1296811039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc the trick is to check that every string starting with 1 or 3 will eventually _always_ start with 1 or 3
< 1296811045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when iterated)
< 1296811196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((::**)~^)((((:(((((((((((_)(9))(8))(7))(6))(5))(4))(3))(2))(1))(!^))~*^^S!)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
< 1296811196 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack!
< 1296811200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1296811253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i forgot to replace the 0
< 1296811256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to invent a simple card game for the purpose of demonstrating TeXnicard. It should be simple but still playable, designed for draft format, uses most features of TeXnicard, and able to program on computer play easily (so that a future version of TeXnicard with these features can implement that). Do you have ideas?
< 1296811262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((::**)~^)((((:(((((((((((_)(9))(8))(7))(6))(5))(4))(3))(2))(1))(0)(!^))~*^^S!)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
< 1296811264 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3, 13, 1113, 3113, 132113, 1113122113, 311311222113, 13211321322113, 1113122113121113222113, 31131122211311123113322113, 132113213221133112132123222113, 11131221131211132221232112111312111213322113, 31131122211311123113321112131221123113111231121123222113, 132113213221133112132123123112111311222112 ...out of time!
< 1296811294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((::**)~^)((((:((0)(!(1)(!(2)(!(3)(!(4)(!(5)(!(6)(!(7)(!(8)(!(9)(_))))))))))(^))~*^^!S)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^
< 1296811296 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3, 13, 1113, 3113, 132113, 1113122113, 311311222113, 13211321322113, 1113122113121113222113, 31131122211311123113322113, 132113213221133112132123222113, 11131221131211132221232112111312111213322113, 31131122211311123113321112131221123113111231121123222113, 132113213221133112132123123112111311222112 ...out of time!
< 1296811305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shortened it a bit
< 1296811403 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Status of TeXnicard: Currently 140 pages (counting generated printouts for all three files belonging to the program).
< 1296811464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((::**)~^)(<-- Initial number as sequence of encoded digits each followed by ~^)!((((:(((((((((((_)(9))(8))(7))(6))(5))(4))(3))(2))(1))(0)(!^))~*^^S!)()!(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a()!(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)()!~a((, )S:^)**^):^
< 1296811465 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3, 13, 1113, 3113, 132113, 1113122113, 311311222113, 13211321322113, 1113122113121113222113, 31131122211311123113322113, 132113213221133112132123222113, 11131221131211132221232112111312111213322113, 31131122211311123113321112131221123113111231121123222113, 13211321322113311213212312311211131122211 ...out of time!
< 1296811698 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296811876 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 1kbwc seems the obvious choice here :P
< 1296812039 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That doesn't seem quite right to me. It should be a new game invented for the purpose of demonstrating this project, and which uses the features of TeXnicard (so that it can demonstrate and test them).
< 1296812087 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 1kbwc is a new game, and it can demonstrate as many features as you feel like demonstrating
< 1296813056 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming digits are random (they aren't) the probability that some power of two larger than 350 000 digits doesn't contain 1, 2, 4 or 8 is approximately... 10^-77600 (or something like that)...
< 1296813136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i'd expect the _majority_ of digits involved to be indistinguishable from random
< 1296813152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything except near the beginning and end of the numbers
< 1296813405 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculating distribution of digits in 2^100000: 2991 zeros, 2969 ones, 3068 twos, 3075 threes, 3040 fours, 3015 fives, 2952 sixes, 3052 sevens, 2932 eights and 3009 nines.
< 1296813459 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you write a program in TeX to figure out how many lines are in a file?
< 1296813542 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For individual digits, the expected distribution for random numbers is 3010.3+-94.9
< 1296813570 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: http://sprunge.us/QZfE
< 1296813585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pretty much as expected then
< 1296813664 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you discussing?
< 1296813691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether 65536 is the only power of 2 not containing digits 1,2 or 8
< 1296813779 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also 4.
< 1296813865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)(!())((~(, )*S:((^~!)~^^^~)~a*^(::)~(**)**)~a*^:^):^
< 1296813866 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0, 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, 49, 64, 81, 100, 121, 144, 169, 196, 225, 256, 289, 324, 361, 400, 441, 484, 529, 576, 625, 676, 729, 784, 841, 900, 961, 1024, 1089, 1156, 1225, 1296, 1369, 1444, 1521, 1600, 1681, 1764,  ...out of time!
< 1296813867 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the argument being that the size of powers of two grows fast enough that the probability of not having any of those shrinks faster than the fact that it's a positive probability can compensate for?
< 1296813884 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chi square value for digits distribution in 2^100000 w.r.t. uniform: 7.231206 (9 degrees of freedom). P > 0.10.
< 1296813967 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm bad at stat. what is the probability that those same digits were drawn uniformly? :P
< 1296814098 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 2^500000 chi-square is 3.3212969 (even smaller, indicating distribution is even more like uniform)
< 1296814230 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powers of two grow so fast that the probability of avoiding 1, 2, 4 and 8 diminshes so rapidly that the probability that it happens above given power of two goes quickly towards zero.
< 1296814329 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are no such numbers at most 350 000 digits long other than 65536... And avoiding those 4 seems exceedingly unlikely in such huge numbers (even if there are infinity of those).
< 1296814428 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we know that the odds are against it, but is there any way to prove it?
< 1296814443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~()((~:(, )*S~:((!^~)~^^)~a*^(:*)*)~a*^:^):^
< 1296814444 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048,  ...out of time!
< 1296814446 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be difficult... :-/
< 1296814804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296814947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296815126 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out faster approximate method (if it detects 1, 2, 4 or 8 in the number, the number really does have 1, 2, 4 or 8. If it doesn't the number could still have them, but that's unlikely)
< 1296815269 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate about 10 minutes CPU time to scan to 2^10^9... It has already used 4.
< 1296815330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~(0)(~!^)(:*)::**:::***^^~S
< 1296815330 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn!
< 1296815347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~(0)~(~!^)(:*)::**:::***^^~S
< 1296815347 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn!
< 1296815351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1296815436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~(0)~(~!^)(:*)::**:::***^^!S
< 1296815436 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn!
< 1296815464 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296815465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~(0)~(~!^)^!S
< 1296815465 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn!
< 1296815498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~(0)~
< 1296815522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~(0)~()^!S
< 1296815522 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1296815529 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181130087.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296815532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~(0)~(~!^)^!S
< 1296815532 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn!
< 1296815536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296815568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)^!S
< 1296815568 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1296815587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(:*)::**:::***^^!S
< 1296815588 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time!
< 1296815633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::**):::::*****^^!S
< 1296815633 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :729
< 1296815642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::**)::::::******^^!S
< 1296815644 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2187
< 1296815722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(:::***)::::****(::**)*^^!S
< 1296815724 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time!
< 1296815734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(:::***)::::****(:*)*^^!S
< 1296815735 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048
< 1296815785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::::****)(:*)*::**(::**)*^^!S
< 1296815786 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time!
< 1296815791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)~(~!^)(::::****)(:*)*::**(:*)*^^!S
< 1296815792 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000
< 1296815800 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. 2^16 is the only power of two not containing 1, 2, 4 nor 8 below 2^10^9 (which is over 301M digits).
< 1296815831 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeahhhhhh
< 1296815876 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which also means that probability estimate got slashed by factor of ~850 to about 10^(-66.5*10^6)  (66.5 million zeros)
< 1296816001 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296816044 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even if there is power of two not containing one of those digits, it doesn't mean the minimal substring subset size is greater than 5, as 65536 could still be a substring.
< 1296816064 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296816087 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know what you're saying with the last line
< 1296816141 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g230229235.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296816225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the substrings don't have be _consecutive_, do they.  or else there is an obvious counterexample: 11, 101, 1001, 10001, ...
< 1296816234 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, they don't.
< 1296816263 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is minimal substring subset of powers of two? It is known to contain 1, 2, 4, 8 and 65536. If there is 6th element, it is known to be over 300M digits long.
< 1296816410 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The minimal substring subset of primes is known to have 26 primes (and those primes are known).
< 1296816493 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For powers of two, it known to have at least 5 (most probably exactly 5). And the first five are known.
< 1296816615 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, if set is enumerable in lexicographic order and number of elements in minimal substring subset are known, then one can compute the minimal substring subset.
< 1296817093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall the primes were much easier.  2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 19, 41, 61, 89, and now checking 409...
< 1296817156 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296817161 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, found the list: 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 19, 41, 61, 89, 409, 449, 499, 881, 991, 6469, 6949, 9001, 9049, 9649, 9949, 60649, 666649, 946669, 60000049, 66000049, 66600049
< 1296817182 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296817255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts wondering about what it is for other bases
< 1296817291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 469
< 1296817302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi
< 1296817330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, 7 and 67.
< 1296817340 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1296817340 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :469: 7 67
< 1296817354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 409
< 1296817355 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :409: 409
< 1296817376 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In base 2 it is clearly 10 and 11.
< 1296817383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1296817394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 449
< 1296817395 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :449: 449
< 1296817428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 499
< 1296817428 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :499: 499
< 1296817453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 609
< 1296817454 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :609: 3 7 29
< 1296817491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 649
< 1296817491 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :649: 11 59
< 1296817509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 669
< 1296817509 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :669: 3 223
< 1296817527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 681
< 1296817528 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :681: 3 227
< 1296817549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that one was already excluded
< 1296817567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 699
< 1296817568 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :699: 3 233
< 1296817585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 801
< 1296817586 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :801: 3 3 89
< 1296817621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 881
< 1296817622 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :881: 881
< 1296817628 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: that's the same length as the trivial 0,1
< 1296817634 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that a joke
< 1296817642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: 0, 1 are not primes
< 1296817647 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1296817653 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know they had to be
< 1296817662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was sort of implying that
< 1296817699 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're discussing the shortest list of numbers with property X that are substrings of all numbers with property X
< 1296817702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 901
< 1296817702 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :901: 17 53
< 1296817713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1296817734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 909
< 1296817735 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :909: 3 3 101
< 1296817769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 949
< 1296817770 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :949: 13 73
< 1296817783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 969
< 1296817784 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :969: 3 17 19
< 1296817809 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 94949
< 1296817810 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94949: 94949
< 1296817817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 981
< 1296817818 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :981: 3 3 109
< 1296817839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 991
< 1296817840 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :991: 991
< 1296817844 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez man. don't you know you're divisibility rule for 3's?
< 1296817845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 999
< 1296817846 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :999: 3 3 3 37
< 1296817848 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your
< 1296817856 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to find
< 1296817859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah i'm just doing them any way
< 1296817872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just OCD'ing checking the list :D
< 1296817910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 4009
< 1296817911 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4009: 19 211
< 1296817931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the LAS meant to deal with strings longer than 9?
< 1296817999 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't start with one of those numbers :P
< 1296818012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can either concatenate the representations, or treat it as a list of integers without considering base
< 1296818032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former depends on you working in base 10, the latter is essentially base infinity
< 1296818052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base-3... Contains at least 2, 10 and 111. There may be more, but at least there is a big gap after 111.
< 1296818080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however every base >= 4 essentially behaves the same way after you've whittled down the length of the sequences
< 1296818105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all digits >= 4 getting separated and never interacting again
< 1296818145 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did conway find that polynomial?
< 1296818146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also 0
< 1296818170 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not obvious to me that repeated rle must always grow at a nearly constant rate
< 1296818212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's a consequence of the splitting into atoms, where all atoms except 22 turn into all the others after a short while.
< 1296818225 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the atoms
< 1296818243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives you a matrix, whose largest eigenvalue is the constant.
< 1296818274 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there 71 atoms? why degree 71?
< 1296818277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an atom is any substring such that it evolves independently of its neighbors
< 1296818289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there are 92 atoms (ignoring digits >= 4)
< 1296818309 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the matrix is 92x92
< 1296818316 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, discarding 22
< 1296818318 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91x91
< 1296818323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't seen how it's reduced to 71, but my guess is that the characteristic polynomial has the 71 one as a factor
< 1296818327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1296818411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't read his paper, maybe he brute-forced it, or maybe there is some simplifying symmetry
< 1296818456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "guess", it _has_ to be, for it to work that way
< 1296818638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 4669
< 1296818645 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4669: 7 23 29
< 1296818728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6009
< 1296818729 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6009: 3 2003
< 1296818766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6049
< 1296818766 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6049: 23 263
< 1296818791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6069
< 1296818792 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6069: 3 7 17 17
< 1296818814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6099
< 1296818815 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6099: 3 19 107
< 1296818847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random bit of trivia, courtesy of Wolfram Alpha page which I had open when cleaning tabs: human brain matter has a resistivity of 611 ohm centimetres. (This might come in handy if you desperately need to make a resistor.)
< 1296818857 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296818862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6469
< 1296818864 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6469: 6469
< 1296818884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I DOUBT IT
< 1296818890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the handy part)
< 1296818896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh? But brains, they're everywhere.
< 1296818909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you never leave home without one.
< 1296818923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUE THAT
< 1296818971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Assuming "brain" is a material | Use as a radiation absorber or a word or a general material or a given name instead". No, I don't think I'll be using it as a radiation absorber.
< 1296818972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6609
< 1296818973 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6609: 3 2203
< 1296818995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_ i should start doing the 3 rule
< 1296819018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reactor shielding
< 1296819041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6649
< 1296819043 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6649: 61 109
< 1296819061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how effective is it as reactor shielding?
< 1296819103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6949
< 1296819105 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6949: 6949
< 1296819222 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db42451.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296819294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hard to say on one line, there's just some graphs that depend on the kinetic energy of the particles in question.
< 1296819313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 9001
< 1296819314 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9001: 9001
< 1296819326 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296819353 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those 26 numbers are primes..
< 1296819356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can only get the specific heat capacity of brains from Alpha.
< 1296819372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You need to use it as reactor shielding first.
< 1296819378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in the brain-as-matter entry.
< 1296819397 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, something I was trying to do in my head last night: 1cnis golf
< 1296819428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Alpha in that sentence could be either Wolfram or Complex, and it would fit any way
< 1296819448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg...
< 1296819453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the Poisson's ratio and shear modulus of brains, if you want to, say, build a house out of them.
< 1296819456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram alpha _is_ the computer!
< 1296819463 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ouch
< 1296819466 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/computer/Computer/
< 1296819485 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you wonder who things of gathering that info in the first place
< 1296819489 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thinks
< 1296819493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1296819498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this clearly needs to be added to Minecraft.
< 1296819560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: It does have those "source information" links; for "brains for reactor shielding", it might be from NIST; "National Institute of Standards and Technology. 'Stopping-Power and Range Tables for Electrons, Protons, and Helium Ions.'" is listed.
< 1296819583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)(!())((~(, )*S:((^~!)~^^^~)~a*^(::)~(**)**)~a*^:^):^
< 1296819583 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duke nukem 4 ever: new release termin published in l.a. 2 hours ago :D
< 1296819585 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0, 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, 49, 64, 81, 100, 121, 144, 169, 196, 225, 256, 289, 324, 361, 400, 441, 484, 529, 576, 625, 676, 729, 784, 841, 900, 961, 1024, 1089, 1156, 1225, 1296, 1369, 1444, 1521, 1600, 1681, 1764,  ...out of time!
< 1296819591 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-06-11#
< 1296819592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ^ :)
< 1296819604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If those values weren't obtained empirically I will be sorely disappointed.
< 1296819610 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... There is supposed to be rationale for the five SHA-3 finalists document. I haven't seen it yet (it could be interesting reading).
< 1296819646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember they said they were going to provide one.
< 1296819673 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think your convert-to-base-10 code is neater than mine
< 1296819706 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was really crazy, it did division by 10 by converting the number into stack elements and getting each element to pop the 9 below
< 1296819796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Announce the finalists. Publish the selection report." is in 2010 Q3 already in the timeline.
< 1296819809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was sort of working with my look-and-say code as starting point
< 1296819824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they did it in Dec 9th; so they seem to be running a little late.
< 1296819846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: btw i realized that the trick of each "cons cell" deleting the previous head, as you formulated it, actually made the code longer
< 1296819854 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it does
< 1296819859 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized that too
< 1296819872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i modified the code on the wiki
< 1296819933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: my code is mainly counting up to 9, and then when it wraps over it calls recursively a stored subroutine for the tens part
< 1296820176 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see an explicit encoding of 9 anywhere in there
< 1296820179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 9049
< 1296820180 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9049: 9049
< 1296820209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i mean the (!~:^) which is called after the 9 step
< 1296820224 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1296820234 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would also explain why 0 is printed by a separate part of the code
< 1296820250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1296820344 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296820493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 9469
< 1296820495 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9469: 17 557
< 1296820495 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its not the only thing that's running late: Testimonies for 2010 nutrion guidelines were 8th July and the transcript and minutes are still "Coming soon". Oh and IIRC 2010 nutrion guidelines have already been published (the same garbage, what else did you expect from USDA?).
< 1296820555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, please go back to counting down the days 'till IPv4 depletion.
< 1296820589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 9649
< 1296820589 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9649: 9649
< 1296820693 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really think americans don't follow the nutrion guidelines (to the extent they are followable)?
< 1296820735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 9949
< 1296820739 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9949: 9949
< 1296820879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I just rebooted the computer ais523_ was connected from
< 1296820881 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, have screwed up enough nutrion guidelines and they become impossible to follow...
< 1296820882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why it's still here?
< 1296820908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not timed out yet?
< 1296820935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 46669
< 1296820936 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46669: 7 59 113
< 1296820979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it doesn't respond to pings!
< 1296821038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'd have expected it to /quit when the browser was closed
< 1296821038 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1296821041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently not
< 1296821042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, pingout
< 1296821051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 60049
< 1296821052 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60049: 11 53 103
< 1296821054 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is 4 minutes for normal connections.
< 1296821203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*4 minutes AND 5 SECONDS
< 1296821206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 60649
< 1296821206 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60649: 60649
< 1296821305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a fun one (which I think I've done, but in my head): convert this psuedocode program to 1cnis: do 6^n times: write 0, write 1 8^n times
< 1296821308 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is usually bit longer than the set time (it polls the connection list periodically and checks when was last pong received?)
< 1296821310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n is the number of steps that has run
< 1296821456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, what I really want is some sort of 1cnis preprocessor
< 1296821469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contains for loops, and exponential repeat loops
< 1296821495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* do 6^n times: write 0, write 1 (8^n)-1 times
< 1296821499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -1 is the whole point...
< 1296821562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 66049
< 1296821563 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66049: 257 257
< 1296821669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 66649
< 1296821670 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66649: 11 73 83
< 1296821847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, [[User talk:Crescente]]
< 1296821856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggestions about how I should react?
< 1296821872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Out of curiosity, since the 1cnis page points out multiple times that the reference impl doesn't do bignums: is there a particular reason why "use bignum;" wouldn't be enough to make it so?
< 1296821883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I hadn't thought of it at the time
< 1296821888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was aware that it was that simple
< 1296821904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter anyway, because a typical 1cnis program would run a computer out of memory before it ever hit integer overflow
< 1296821912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the principle of the thing
< 1296821928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I'll replace that with a welcome message
< 1296821931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see what happens
< 1296822213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 94669
< 1296822216 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94669: 41 2309
< 1296822696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 466669
< 1296822698 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :466669: 7 163 409
< 1296822796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 600049
< 1296822797 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600049: 17 47 751
< 1296822901 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... FIN+ACK and remote end responds to it with an RST...
< 1296822944 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd
< 1296823049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it legal to respond to /anything/ with an RST?
< 1296823061 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is...
< 1296823353 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Packet trace of a connection. A: SYN, B: SYN+ACK, A: ACK. A: Data 1-415. A: Data 1-415. B: ACK up to 415. B: Data 1209-1614. A: SACK 1,1209-1614. B: FIN+ACK. A: SACK 1,1209-1615. B: ACK up to 415.   <connection hung>.
< 1296823357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 660049
< 1296823358 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :660049: 13 50773
< 1296823521 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess something is dropping that packet containing data bytes 1-1208 from B.
< 1296823521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 660649
< 1296823522 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :660649: 11 19 29 109
< 1296823639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you looking for primes containing no digits but 0, 4, 6, and 9?
< 1296823651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 666049
< 1296823652 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :666049: 79 8431
< 1296823674 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually systematically dropping, since it would be retransmitted.
< 1296823677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'm checking Ilari's list of minimal prime substrings
< 1296823766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although at this point 0,4,6 and 9 may be the only options left. 2,3,5,7 went early of course, and 8 i've dismissed
< 1296823793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check about 1
< 1296823878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, 1 is no longer possible since 991 and 9001 are in the list
< 1296823891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well as 11 and 19)
< 1296823937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"minimal prime substrings"?
< 1296823958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primes that have no smaller primes as (non-consecutive) substrings
< 1296824100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1296824122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're trying to find the largest such prime?
< 1296824173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well proving that Ilari's list is all of them
< 1296824232 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Largest prime that doesn't contain any smaller prime as (non-consecutive) substring is known to be 66600049
< 1296824234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 666649
< 1296824236 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :666649: 666649
< 1296824249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the next one
< 1296824268 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already factorized all the numbers on that list. They were all primes.
< 1296824289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorizing primes is easy!
< 1296824371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LoseThos can update full screen at 30fps without much effort because it's only 640x480x16 color."
< 1296824381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that a bit low for modern systems?
< 1296824662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 946669
< 1296824663 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :946669: 946669
< 1296824680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: YOU DON'T SAY
< 1296824780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 4666669
< 1296824781 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4666669: 7 666667
< 1296824832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6000049
< 1296824833 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6000049: 11 199 2741
< 1296825094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6600049
< 1296825094 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6600049: 19 563 617
< 1296825101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 6660049
< 1296825102 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6660049: 11 557 1087
< 1296825290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 46666669
< 1296825291 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46666669: 7 7 952381
< 1296825317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm those 46*9 are all divisible by 7 aren't they
< 1296825395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10*(x-3)+9 = 10*x - 21
< 1296825459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 60000049
< 1296825460 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60000049: 60000049
< 1296825524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 66000049
< 1296825525 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66000049: 66000049
< 1296825542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 66600049
< 1296825543 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66600049: 66600049
< 1296825624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm using Windows because it has a program I need to run
< 1296825630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's decided to randomly shut down in the middle of things
< 1296825648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially amusing because I had a file on my desktop that was too large, and I was supposed to get rid of it before logging off...
< 1296825754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concludes that no more primes are possible
< 1296825754 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329e7f.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296825782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EUCLID EAT YOUR HEART OUT
< 1296825833 0 :nddrylliog!~ndd@vpn-a-182-218.epfl.ch JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296826157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: oh and for base 3 it's indeed 2 and 111, since there are no primes of the form 3^n+1
< 1296826181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EXERCISE LEFT TO THE READER)
< 1296826246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base four gives 2,3 and 11
< 1296826655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 109
< 1296826685 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :109: 109
< 1296826736 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I can flyyyyyyyyy
< 1296827393 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296828100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 (\x y -> 5*x+y) [1,4,4,4,4]
< 1296828100 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-23.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296828100 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1249
< 1296828144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 1249
< 1296828164 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1249: 1249
< 1296828167 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-11-54.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296828193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base five gives 2, 3, 104 (29), 111 (31), 401 (101), 414 (109), 14444 (625+500+124 = 1249), ...
< 1296828203 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1296828253 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296828334 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-11-54.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296828370 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296828378 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1296828452 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296828473 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-54.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296828488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 (\x y -> 5*x+y) [4,4,4,4,1]
< 1296828488 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  3121
< 1296828497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 3121
< 1296828501 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3121: 3121
< 1296828553 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230229235.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296828589 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also 10 in set of base-3 primes...
< 1296828614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1296828633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's for base 5 as well
< 1296828635 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actually, the only prime of form 3^n+1 is when n is zero.
< 1296828660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that doesn't count
< 1296828680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok scratch that 104 and replace by 10 (5)
< 1296828703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add 44441 (3121)
< 1296828761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think that's all.
< 1296828831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> food
< 1296828846 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In base-3, 2, 10 and 111. To avoid falling into any of those, number must contain at most 2 ones and the rest zeroes. The first 1 must be the leftmost digit. The other must be rightmost since otherwise result is divisible by 3. But all such numbers are even and greater than 2 and as such not primes.
< 1296829034 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base 4: 2, 3, 11. To avoid that set, it must contain at most one 1 and the rest zeroes. But such numbers are 4^n and none of those is prime.
< 1296829357 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296829499 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base 5 seems to have a lot more of those numbers than lesser bases. I got up to 44441 and already found 8...
< 1296829675 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2, 3,10,111, 401, 414, 14444 and 44441
< 1296829924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: same as i found
< 1296829942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when correcting for the 10)
< 1296829955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are all, i believe.
< 1296830031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just say if you want me to give the argument)
< 1296830270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*36+1
< 1296830271 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  145
< 1296830298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*36+4*6+1
< 1296830299 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  169
< 1296830343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*6^3+1
< 1296830344 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  865
< 1296830665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6*(x-1)+1 = 6*x-5, so those 40*1 will all be divisible by 5
< 1296830697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296830737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 871
< 1296830738 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :871: 13 67
< 1296830785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*6^3+4*6^2+1
< 1296830786 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1009
< 1296830791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 1009
< 1296830792 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1009: 1009
< 1296830844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh
< 1296830852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*6^3+4*6+1
< 1296830853 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  889
< 1296830858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 889
< 1296830859 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :889: 7 127
< 1296830909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*6^3+4*6^2+4*6+1
< 1296830910 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1033
< 1296830915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 1033
< 1296830916 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1033: 1033
< 1296831008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*6^4+4^6+1
< 1296831009 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  9281
< 1296831015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 9281
< 1296831016 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9281: 9281
< 1296831176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 6: 2, 3, 5, 11 (7), 4401 (1009), 4441 (1033), 40041 (9281).
< 1296831255 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296831429 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296831608 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296831656 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296831682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (\x -> x*49+8) 1
< 1296831683 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,57,2801,137257,6725601,329554457,16148168401,791260251657,38771752331201...
< 1296831694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 2801
< 1296831695 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2801: 2801
< 1296831705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 7: 2, 3, 5, 10 (7), 14 (11), 16 (13), 41 (29), 61 (43), 11111 (2801).
< 1296831719 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181139122.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296831743 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan what are you doing? Checking out prime generating polynomials?
< 1296831781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: checking what primes in various bases have representations that have no other prime as non-consecutive substrings
< 1296831804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a theorem that says the number of them is always finite
< 1296831844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(primeness is not important for that, just any property of strings can be used)
< 1296831916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far it's been possible to check.  but we don't have a certain proof for the same question for powers of 2...
< 1296831918 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (\n -> n^2 + n + 41) 1
< 1296831919 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,43,1933,3738463,13976109340873,195331632308051498617743043,3815444658012...
< 1296831923 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1296831927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1296831949 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol that's the wrong use though
< 1296831977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [n^2 + n + 41 | n <- [0..40]]
< 1296831977 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [41,43,47,53,61,71,83,97,113,131,151,173,197,223,251,281,313,347,383,421,46...
< 1296831985 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I was just writing that
< 1296831999 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although with take 10 and n <- [0..] instead
< 1296832001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought that might be what you meant
< 1296832019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i know they stop being all primes at around 40
< 1296832030 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1296832035 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Prime-GeneratingPolynomial.html
< 1296832086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually 40 itself doesn't give one
< 1296832101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296832116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear god, there's another version of LoseThos.
< 1296832183 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For powers of two, the minimal subset of substrings is known to be finite. In base 10, it is at least 5 and 6th element if it existed would have to be >2^10^9 (>300M digits).
< 1296832210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right it's the exact set that isn't known
< 1296832353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 8^2+4*8+1
< 1296832354 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  97
< 1296832429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 8^2+6*8+1
< 1296832430 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  113
< 1296832519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 257
< 1296832520 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :257: 257
< 1296832563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LostThos guy remonds me distressingly of zzo, come to think of it.
< 1296832602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*8^2+4*8+1
< 1296832603 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  289
< 1296832609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 289
< 1296832610 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :289: 17 17
< 1296832651 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For base 9: "2, 3, 5, 7, 14, 18, 41, 81, 601, 661, 1011, 1101, ...
< 1296832766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 6*8^2+0*8+1
< 1296832767 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  385
< 1296832976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 6*8^2+6*8+1
< 1296832977 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  433
< 1296832986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 433
< 1296832986 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :433: 433
< 1296833128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 8^3+0*8^2+0*8+1
< 1296833129 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  513
< 1296833269 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1296833297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 8^3+1*8^2+0*8+1
< 1296833297 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  577
< 1296833305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 577
< 1296833306 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :577: 577
< 1296833436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*8^3+1*8^2+1*8+1
< 1296833437 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2121
< 1296833502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*8^3+4*8^2+1*8+1
< 1296833503 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2313
< 1296833510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 2313
< 1296833511 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2313: 3 3 257
< 1296833582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*8^3+4*8^2+6*8+1
< 1296833582 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2353
< 1296833589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 2353
< 1296833589 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2353: 13 181
< 1296833623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*8^3+6*8^2+1*8+1
< 1296833624 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2441
< 1296833631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 2441
< 1296833632 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2441: 2441
< 1296833638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 8: 2, 3, 5, 7, 141 (97), 161 (113), 401 (257), 661 (433), 1101 (577), 4611 (2441), ...
< 1296833679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4*8^3+6*8^2+4*8+1
< 1296833680 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2465
< 1296833741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 6*8^3+0*8^2+0*8+1
< 1296833742 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  3073
< 1296833750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 3073
< 1296833751 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3073: 7 439
< 1296834174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 3137
< 1296834175 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3137: 3137
< 1296834278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 3337
< 1296834279 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3337: 47 71
< 1296834339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 3361
< 1296834339 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3361: 3361
< 1296834599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 4097
< 1296834600 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4097: 17 241
< 1296834704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 4169
< 1296834704 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4169: 11 379
< 1296834722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 4681
< 1296834723 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4681: 31 151
< 1296834727 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296834828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 16969
< 1296834829 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16969: 71 239
< 1296834882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 18697
< 1296834883 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18697: 7 2671
< 1296834932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 18721
< 1296834933 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18721: 97 193
< 1296834950 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel should be renamed to #repl
< 1296835027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what #esoteric-blah is for, isn't it?
< 1296835029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the bots aren't tehre
< 1296835031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try PM
< 1296835041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i just started doing that
< 1296835079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current pastime: repeatedly rebooting Windows (which hasn't been loaded for almost a year) to see how many reboots it takes to finish applying all its updates
< 1296835085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at about 12 atm, I've vaguely lost count...
< 1296835100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Windows 7, in case it matters)
< 1296835519 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181136251.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296835591 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296835830 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296835865 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g230228035.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296836324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 8: 2, 3, 5, 7, 141 (97), 161 (113), 401 (257), 661 (433), 1101 (577), 4611 (2441), 6101 (3137), 6441 (3361), 60411 (24841), 101111 (33353), 444641 (149921), ...
< 1296836675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the ... mean there are potentially more?
< 1296836902 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296836907 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1296836981 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1296837021 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1296837114 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is fairly easy to list all numbers in set up to N, but showing that the set is complete requires a proof (and that isn't easy on bases >=5).
< 1296837367 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-32-21.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296837405 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.101.89.205 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296837410 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1296837410 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296837477 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1296837618 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296837649 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-215.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296837659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> does the ... mean there are potentially more? <-- oh right, yes, i just wanted to put those i've found so far on the screen
< 1296837680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296837701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: i'm proving as i go.  admittedly i might slip up...
< 1296837719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i believe i've got all bases <= 7
< 1296837756 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296838110 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296838153 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296838715 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296838850 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296838869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 8: 2, 3, 5, 7, 141 (97), 161 (113), 401 (257), 661 (433), 1101 (577), 4611 (2441), 6101 (3137), 6441 (3361), 60411 (24841), 101111 (33353), 444641 (149921), 600111 (196681), 1000011 (262153), 1000111 (262217), 4411111 (1184329), ...
< 1296839025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun issue I came up against just now: I had to reproduce someone else's virtual machine from the disks
< 1296839032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they assumed a particular disk was connected to /dev/sdb1
< 1296839062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, I had to make a tiny hard disk and attach it to sda in order to push the other disk onto sdb (and thus get its partition at sdb1)
< 1296839346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do the same with udev trickery; but that is undoubtedly simpler.
< 1296839436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to do udev trickery is unclear if it crashes before I even reach a shell
< 1296839497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By mounting the disk from the host and twiddling the configuration files?
< 1296839591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though with some image formats that's non-trivial.
< 1296839594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the disk wasn't in a format that could be directly mounted, especially because the host was running Windows
< 1296840511 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296840671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the Yes problem on anagolf seems to be shorter to cheat than to not cheat in Python
< 1296840696 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296840698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io.
< 1296840755 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 257
< 1296840756 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :257: 257
< 1296840867 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296841033 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about Io?
< 1296841050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE
< 1296841074 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you just said Io without any context.
< 1296841078 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're turning into me!
< 1296841251 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296841289 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229028013.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296841393 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296841527 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'd like Io more if it worked well on Windows
< 1296841780 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-103-74.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296842368 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296842395 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296842836 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-215.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296842865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I WAS REFERRING TO THE MOON
< 1296842893 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there was no context by which someone would figure that out
< 1296842895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NO MOON
< 1296842916 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is binary addition possible in underload? is it necessary to store each digit as a separate stack element?
< 1296842940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can implement lists
< 1296842950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's surely possible
< 1296842962 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1296842991 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible with having the entire numeral in one stack cell?
< 1296843018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.  the numeral would be a program, of course, like everything else in Underload.
< 1296843046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well everything that's not just for printing)
< 1296843109 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BACON
< 1296843111 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1296843123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cons cell can be implemented as a program that puts the car and the cdr on the stack.  (you might also want an empty flag).
< 1296843161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the cdr is then a subprogram, which has its cdr as a subprogram, etc.
< 1296843202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact my printing routines of lately are essentially mostly cons cells, as ais523 pointed out.
< 1296843232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically list index followed by print, much like you'd do it in any other language that didn't have arithmetic
< 1296843236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on characters
< 1296843258 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the reasonable thing to have here is a numeral such that cating with another numeral and executing would push the sum as a numeral in the same format onto the stack
< 1296843279 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the requirement should be that the length of the representation is logarithmic in the size of the numeral
< 1296843285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why require cat in particular? why not allow any addition function?
< 1296843292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no, i don't think that's necessarily reasonable if you want binary efficiency
< 1296843302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it might happen to be by accident)
< 1296843305 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reasonable"
< 1296843310 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense of "fun to write"
< 1296843316 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296843360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:37:37 <Gregor> Anybody happen to know of a FreeDesktop-aligned menu program that can run as a system tray applet?
< 1296843363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _is_ a simple numeral form for which concatenating is summing:  lists of ^'s
< 1296843364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: gnome-panel? >:D
< 1296843380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, what does freedesktop matter here?
< 1296843380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no execution needed though)
< 1296843383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1296843384 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't that unary?
< 1296843386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about underloda?
< 1296843388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*underload?
< 1296843390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes
< 1296843393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just thinking about how to do division!
< 1296843395 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: .desktop files
< 1296843395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3
< 1296843397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1296843399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not division
< 1296843401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition
< 1296843402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ew
< 1296843405 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By FreeDesktop-aligned I just mean "compatible with their standards"
< 1296843408 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it doesn't meet the logarithmic-sized representation requirement
< 1296843415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Their standards are terrible :P
< 1296843416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping
< 1296843419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'd rather go back to the hell that predated .desktop files?
< 1296843427 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296843428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope.
< 1296843438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, i have a vague idea to do division similarly to my recent printing routine (which you may not have seen in its full glory yet)
< 1296843446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed i haven't
< 1296843453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do you add two UL-church numerals?
< 1296843492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ((:)~*(*)*)~^
< 1296843503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that not a+b+1?
< 1296843503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, so basically what i was thinking, but more elegant
< 1296843507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed
< 1296843515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the more elegant forms of that rule I've seen, though
< 1296843520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy trying to work it out and failing
< 1296843525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You know how you said special-casing numbers would make arithmetic O(1) instead of O(log n)?
< 1296843535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, it is a+b
< 1296843539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's incorrect, because addition and multiplication are both O(log n) IIRC
< 1296843547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But certainly arithmetic isn't O(1)
< 1296843549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just iterating increment on m, n times
< 1296843552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote in the wiki about how to do increment/add church numbers.
< 1296843555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually they're O(n), but you could detect arithmetic too I suppose
< 1296843557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed
< 1296843560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, for naturals less than 2^64 it can work.
< 1296843565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm talking about mathematically
< 1296843569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see
< 1296843571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think addition is O(log n)
< 1296843572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was assuming not bignum
< 1296843575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1296843590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boggles at ais' message on http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Crescente
< 1296843596 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is possible I make mistake
< 1296843606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was wondering how to deal with an obviously spambot UT page
< 1296843612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I decided to do that to see what the reaction would be
< 1296843621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a while to figure out how any given spambot acts
< 1296843622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, what does a numeral of the form ({:*}^n) represent?
< 1296843625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even a church numeral?
< 1296843626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ so
< 1296843627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :power of 2
< 1296843629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it 2^n?
< 1296843630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1296843640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm increment (I want to figure this out myself)
< 1296843646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:*) is 2, I believe
< 1296843651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right ais523?
< 1296843658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)(!())((~(, )*S:((^~!)~^^^~)~a*^(::)~(**)**)~a*^:^):^
< 1296843658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1296843658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1296843659 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0, 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, 49, 64, 81, 100, 121, 144, 169, 196, 225, 256, 289, 324, 361, 400, 441, 484, 529, 576, 625, 676, 729, 784, 841, 900, 961, 1024, 1089, 1156, 1225, 1296, 1369, 1444, 1521, 1600, 1681, 1764,  ...out of time!
< 1296843670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)(:*)^ -> (xx)
< 1296843681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:)(:*)* -> (::*)
< 1296843682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1296843688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:)~*(*)*
< 1296843689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is increment
< 1296843691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1296843696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition
< 1296843696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1296843701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i forgot the solution don't tell me)
< 1296843705 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrr at the clothing he's wearing being 2lbs
< 1296843715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:*)(::**) is 2+3, i.e. 5 i.e. (::::****)
< 1296843717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1296843739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:)~^ ... nope
< 1296843745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<quintopia> then it doesn't meet the logarithmic-sized representation requirement <-- well i just don't immediately see how to do your "addition by concatenation" with a non-unary representation
< 1296843747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, (:*)(::**) is just two numbers
< 1296843753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed
< 1296843754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was 2 and 3
< 1296843756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my examples
< 1296843760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i was working with
< 1296843763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, those are the args you want
< 1296843764 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't either.
< 1296843765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1296843779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, zzo's solution is basically recursive increment
< 1296843781 0 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296843787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want something more "primitive"...
< 1296843788 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D
< 1296843790 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scZ-MHgfol0
< 1296843810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a random person coming in and linking a youtube video that actually seems relevant?
< 1296843812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'd basically have to use a self-delimiting format
< 1296843814 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery is working on a visualised programming language or something like that, it looks very esoteric
< 1296843819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a common occurrence
< 1296843819 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I told him to haha
< 1296843825 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did kfr already linked? we thought you'd here would bother. ;)
< 1296843827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: heh, we've had a bunch of spambots doing that recently
< 1296843841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for a human to do the same thing the same way, only it's relevant, is awesome
< 1296843845 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was worth sharing
< 1296843852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the timings gave it away, though
< 1296843856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: do you know of aardappel?
< 1296843858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at work so can't watch YouTube; what's it about?
< 1296843863 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was funny because I was talking about this in here just a few days ago
< 1296843866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Aardappel from the looks of it :P
< 1296843871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very like aardappel
< 1296843889 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I'm doing a quick search on it now.
< 1296843911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: http://strlen.com/aardappel-language
< 1296843922 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-82.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296843923 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: This channel is good for freethinker talk on programming languages although many people in here are under the influence of Haskell
< 1296843926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouter is one of the "famous" esolangers, made FALSE
< 1296843931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, technically a channel op here
< 1296843936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've never seen him, ever
< 1296843940 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh.. with google I only found this: http://www.fluweelbloem.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/aardappel-bikini-297x300.jpg
< 1296843940 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's an Underload sport going on here
< 1296843959 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means potato in some Germanic language, I suppose
< 1296843977 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be west Germanic
< 1296843992 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah it's Dutch apparently
< 1296844012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, we don't have an Aardappel page on the wiki.
< 1296844014 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://strlen.com/aardappel-language
< 1296844030 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about trying to make this one way to write languages, didn't thought much about its esoteric value.
< 1296844033 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, so I was too late :|
< 1296844037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: HASKELL HASKELL HASTUR AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1296844045 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hva
< 1296844065 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to look up Hastur
< 1296844068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :role playing/cthulhu joke
< 1296844072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:42:11 <kfr> Cheery: This channel is good for freethinker talk on programming languages although many people in here are under the influence of Haskell
< 1296844072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, logreading was a mistake, why can't I learn to trust my past self to make the right ignores...
< 1296844073 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not familiar with it
< 1296844081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: btw er du norsk?
< 1296844084 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nei
< 1296844089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1296844109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...something fishy there...
< 1296844112 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeg er fra tyskland men jeg lære meg norsk fordi jeg vil skrive helnorsk svartmetall sangtekster
< 1296844118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1296844118 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^-^
< 1296844123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw I am really tempted to write an Underload preprocessor
< 1296844127 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296844138 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm exaggerating, I haven't studied Norwegian in a long time
< 1296844140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I even /specced/ one, and implemented it sort-of
< 1296844143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let mock := (:^)*:^.
< 1296844146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() mock -> infinite loop
< 1296844149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't into metal, alas
< 1296844159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I too had idea of Underload preprocessor
< 1296844159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WELL MINE'S BETTER
< 1296844167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a really obvious thing to do
< 1296844173 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Awww, black metal is the most significant export of Norway! :[
< 1296844175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Underload + word definitions could actually be a nice-ish language...
< 1296844181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine let you redefine things like :, though, in terms of other things
< 1296844185 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aardappel looks pretty. I'll have to look into it
< 1296844191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could do things like add bounds checking to the language while keeping source compatibility
< 1296844206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: aardappel is pretty but, like all tree-based structural programming editors, absolutely impossible to use efficiently
< 1296844211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/cough cled
< 1296844218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's awful
< 1296844227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really?
< 1296844232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1296844234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary :)
< 1296844245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda's designed around making that idea possible
< 1296844263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not expecting it to be efficient, but letting you use it to write relatively simple esolang->esolang compilers
< 1296844274 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which spots make it inefficient?
< 1296844278 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inputting?
< 1296844288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to make it a) easy to implement, and b) possible to implement efficiently (but not necessarily easy to implement efficiently)
< 1296844296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: yeah but few actual _norwegians_ are into it :D
< 1296844300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: well, actually inputting programs in structural editors tends to be slower than a textual format; editing I've never done, but I suspect navigating to the right place might take more time too
< 1296844306 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of things I've attempting to get on. :)
< 1296844307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: this problem might not be inherent, but nobody's solved it yet afaik
< 1296844318 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh I'm sure it's far more popular in Norway than in most of Europe, per capita
< 1296844355 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: confirmed typing is pretty fast if you first get to a location where you need to be in
< 1296844365 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although probably not nomimally considering Norway's smaller population
< 1296844388 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: though, navigation is the harder problem I've not yet gotten good solutions to.
< 1296844388 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have enough of an idea of underlambda to have already written some examples for it?
< 1296844393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is the idea that the editor makes it physically impossible to type a syntax error, and also stores the structure of the code so you don't need to use things like braces instead
< 1296844409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd imagine it's at least got a decent niche in Norway.
< 1296844410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, welcome to 1990 or something
< 1296844415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes, I do; the problem with Underlambda is not the Feather problem of me not understanding it, but the entirely unrelated problem of me repeatedly changing my mind
< 1296844417 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's it.
< 1296844420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The Norwegian black metal artists have to come from somewhere, right?
< 1296844420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: I find typing is inefficient because mistakes in the structural parts are harder to correct.
< 1296844433 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just was wondering if anything was set in stone
< 1296844448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, although a few characters are very unlikely to change meaning
< 1296844449 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did a mechanism that lets you correct the last mistake you did
< 1296844451 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So everything you make in a structural editor is a correct program? (as in, it compiles) I think I have seen something like this in two applications before, actually
< 1296844455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you'd think.  mind you since i don't even watch _tv_ i don't really know how mainstream it has got.
< 1296844455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: For instance, if I write "x/4" as the mistaken "x=4", normally I could just backspace. But in a structural editor, it is quite likely that the = will trigger the creation of new nodes etc.
< 1296844458 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was absolutely horrible, though
< 1296844460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And reversing that might be harder than backspacing.
< 1296844463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly the small abbreviation ones, like _ for dip, and & and ` as argument-reversed versions of * and ^
< 1296844467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, undo gets you some of the way, but I don't think all.
< 1296844475 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those were the editors for StarCraft and StarCraft II coded by Blizzard
< 1296844486 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, that will be trouble.
< 1296844487 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They used structural editors for the half assed scripting language
< 1296844497 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then make the editor so that pushing backspace will undo the creation of the new node.
< 1296844500 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was enormously time consuming to get any work done there
< 1296844505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: My "TV" watching consists of: video off the Internet, NetFlix streaming, and football. :)
< 1296844509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I managed to get call/cc implemented purely in the preprocessor
< 1296844512 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was by no means optimising
< 1296844516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I've just realised how insane my previous line was
< 1296844518 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was by no means optimised* for input speed
< 1296844542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: I think structural editors should possibly keep things in a mostly linear form until the completion of small structures, at which point they turn "semantic".
< 1296844554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NetFlix, BTW, is a company in the US that lets you rent any number of DVDs, via the mail, per month, for a flat rate, *and* offers streaming video on a variety of set-top boxes. Quite nice.)
< 1296844557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: (if you start writing a larger structure, parts you typed a short while ago will become structural, but your current focus will stay linear)
< 1296844562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *Netflix
< 1296844569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Blah, right, it's not camel case.
< 1296844570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well we expect _you_ to implement call/cc in the _processor_
< 1296844574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, football? why? :p
< 1296844580 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or have linear form available all the time from the semantic one.
< 1296844585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know why, but I actually enjoy watching American football.
< 1296844590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Little bit of a guilty pleasure.
< 1296844605 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's funny that you chose to go all the way to explain NetFlix but you decided not to add verosity to the football part which would be most misleading one in an international chat :p
< 1296844606 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything in gcc that allows a program to operate on its own GENERIC and GIMPLE codes before it is compiled?
< 1296844609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha, although not very likely, it doesn't even have a remotely sane restriction to finite state unless you make it work like exceptions, and that misses the whole point
< 1296844616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: possibly. but i mean so that fixing recent enough mistakes can be done by just backspacing. :p
< 1296844620 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or Netflix then* :p
< 1296844626 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbosity* rather
< 1296844627 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: editing is the thing you pointed out already. I think that's next thing I should look into.
< 1296844629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think so, because gcc is so muddled around that point; in some cases, it doesn't go via GENERIC/GIMPLE at all
< 1296844640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1296844642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program can operate on RTL using a modified version of __asm, but only to add things
< 1296844648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to move them around
< 1296844653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: Even without mentioning that it's American football, a form of gridiron football, people would at least understand that football is a form of sport that is often watched on TV.
< 1296844662 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1296844667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If gcc doesn't, can LLVM do anything like I described (but without GENERIC/GIMPLE, I guess)?
< 1296844674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know, I haven't looked into it
< 1296844685 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is certainly true for all derivatives of that family
< 1296844691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas if you've not heard of Netflix at all, you're going to be pretty clueless.
< 1296844699 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True that
< 1296844703 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think if it's so easy to directly fix the mistake, but I feel I know how I could approach these things.
< 1296844722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's not true that all forms of football are forms of gridiron football.
< 1296844725 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery by the way, I presume that your language is typed statically?
< 1296844736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only two notable such games are American and Canadian football.
< 1296844743 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is Aardappel typed?
< 1296844750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "gridiron" mean in this context?
< 1296844774 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: depends about the language. I haven't yet decided on the language and actually.. I attempt to do support for both into one multilingual packet.
< 1296844777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you play on a gigantic iron
< 1296844779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arranged in a grid
< 1296844788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I choose not to believe you
< 1296844798 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm? Association Football is the most popular sport wide, and then there are the different forms of Rugby and Australian Rules Football
< 1296844813 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first run it sounds like good idea to start from C-like language.
< 1296844822 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I don't know what the gridiron part means
< 1296844837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: seriously? naw
< 1296844841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a class of football games, which has a series of parallel lines indicating yardage on the play field, and has a system of downs, a line of scrimmage, and forward passes.
< 1296844844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: something like Lisp would work best
< 1296844853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: the uniformity will make the editing easier with that kind of interface
< 1296844856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, OK; that's... rather specific
< 1296844865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's more than one such game is the thing.
< 1296844882 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gridiron_football
< 1296844892 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I feel I need tools that work on non-uniform representation of semantics.
< 1296844898 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296844906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this may or may not be a good time to mention scapegoat
< 1296844912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They're all pretty *similar* games, but definitely distinct.
< 1296844915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good a time as any!
< 1296844920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: why?
< 1296844973 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: better visuals.
< 1296844988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: well, C-like languages are a bad choice, because they usually have few levels of expression nesting
< 1296844989 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though yeah. it boils down to an interesting form of lisp.
< 1296844993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning your tools have less to work with
< 1296844999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I never really understood the attraction in American football, by the way; which is interesting because I prefer baseball to pretty much all sports which are commonly watched in the UK
< 1296845044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:16:09 <ais523> "LoseThos can update full screen at 30fps without much effort because it's only 640x480x16 color."
< 1296845044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:16:19 <ais523> isn't that a bit low for modern systems?
< 1296845044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it redraws the screen every frame, because it's LoseThos and he's clinically insane
< 1296845052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, right
< 1296845056 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I also thought about doing a first run with the language I think would fit best for the editor configuration.
< 1296845056 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My supervisor is from Pakistan, he was too late for a meeting today because he stayed up for a long time to watch a cricket game
< 1296845059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Baseball's a sport I've not really gotten *that* much into, but I will admit that it's pretty fun to watch in a stadium.
< 1296845074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really? I'd imagine you couldn't much tell what was going on live
< 1296845085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that usually seems to be the case, I generally prefer to watch sport on TV for that reason
< 1296845097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have a feeling that I'm potentially missing the point
< 1296845097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Admittedly, I've only gone to minor league games, which have rather smaller stadiums.
< 1296845103 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that'd be using graph reducing with controlled side-effects.
< 1296845106 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't owned a TV in 11 years
< 1296845117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: I think side-effects would be a distraction for this
< 1296845125 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181143178.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296845130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: ideally, you'd be able to press an "evaluate" key at any point in the tree, and see just that subtree reduce to a simpler form, e.g. to the side
< 1296845130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a minor league team in town; family's gone there a few times. Fun and cheap. Yay.)
< 1296845135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :side-effects would destroy that a little bit
< 1296845136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've owned a TV ever, although my parents own at least one
< 1296845138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I feel it could be useful for debugging
< 1296845142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so I can watch it like that if necessary
< 1296845157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I own a TV tuner card. It is permanently attached to my PS3.
< 1296845189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my monitor were HDMI, I'd just have a switchbox instead. Ah well.
< 1296845206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TV situation in the UK is a bit weird, because all the major channels do things online (restricted to residents of the UK) nowadays
< 1296845214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think channels 4 and 5 just put their stuff up on YouTube
< 1296845226 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. getting to keep on this kernel stuff yet a while. I try to get memory management, scheduling and driver interface done. :)
< 1296845229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BitTorrent obsoleted television. :p
< 1296845235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: Oh, you are implementing this in an OS?
< 1296845238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: Cool!
< 1296845239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US, the major channels are still needing to be convinced that it's a good idea to put stuff online.
< 1296845257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, there was Hulu, which got basically everything. Then they started to make Hulu suck.
< 1296845273 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well.. more like I plan implementing an OS with it.
< 1296845278 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1296845282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer analog television, it works.
< 1296845293 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do not watch television much.
< 1296845296 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only after then implement the editor itself in the OS.
< 1296845303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not for much longer, at least in the UK; they're in the process of switching analog transmitters off at the moment
< 1296845305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ONLY WATCH TELEVISION ON AN ANALOGUE, BLACK-AND-WHITE SET FROM 1949
< 1296845307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to free up the bandwidth for other things
< 1296845317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH A 2" SCREEN AND TWENTY KNOBS THAT YOU USE TO CHANGE FROM CHANNEL 1 TO CHANNEL 1 AND BACK
< 1296845319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH WAS ALL THEY HAD IN THOSE DAYS
< 1296845324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT DOESN'T HAVE SOUND, THEY HADN'T INVENTED SOUND YET
< 1296845325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like they don't even realise that if people can't watch it easily online, they'll either say "fuck that" or pirate it, rather than pay money.
< 1296845332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S ALSO GREY BECAUSE THEY HADN'T INVENTED COLOUR YET
< 1296845355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, /mine/ was invisible because they hadn't invented grey yet either
< 1296845356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: most people aren't very good at piracy
< 1296845369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thus why "fuck that" is an option.
< 1296845372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: When the dinosaurs were around, we didn't even have radio, dammit.
< 1296845376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither colours nor sounds had been invented.
< 1296845379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything was just TRANSPARENT.
< 1296845404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BTW, I consider watching illegal Youtube uploads as "pirating it" for purposes of this discussion.
< 1296845405 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I encountered Cheery in #osdev
< 1296845431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Although technically just *watching* it is entirely legal.
< 1296845457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, I never realised that the breaks in proffessional American football were deliberately lengthened to make room for adverts
< 1296845463 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legality is relative, it depends on local legislation
< 1296845465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always assumed the referees were just bad at making decisions
< 1296845466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That is one of the suckier aspects.
< 1296845499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: Most copyright laws do not make it illegal to obtain something that was illegally reproduced; it is merely illegal to actually do said reproduction.
< 1296845516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be hilarious watching US baseball games in the UK; due to the time difference and differences in advertising, they managed to fit in all the coverage that the US broadcast had (they just streamed with permission from ESPN), and did all the UK-extra things in the US ad breaks
< 1296845547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, they basically fit an entire baseball discussion program - discussion, commentary, reading viewers' letters, etc. - into the ad breaks of the US version
< 1296845562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably do that to US football, too.
< 1296845573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but there's a copy in your computer's RAM! <--- actual (yet stupid) precedent from the Blizzard vs. Glider devs case
< 1296845603 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 lol I am familiar with that one
< 1296845628 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been a series of new lawsuits by Blizzard against some other people recently, three of which I know
< 1296845634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know how that interacts with the *actual law* stating that copying into RAM for purposes of utilisation are not regulated by copyright law.
< 1296845644 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About StarCraft II, I think
< 1296845656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what did they do to annoy Blizzard wrt that? it presumably wasn't botting
< 1296845659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe cheating?
< 1296845666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or using unlicensed copies?
< 1296845686 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Selling cheats for SC2
< 1296845696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me find a relevant comic...
< 1296845700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, as in patches that made cheating possible?
< 1296845705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why bother, I'd be unlikely to actually read it
< 1296845705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand there's precedent that creating a derivative work using a cheat device is fair use.
< 1296845711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nintendo v. Galoob, IIRC)
< 1296845729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, Galoob v. Nintendo.
< 1296845730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WHO SAID IT WAS OPTIONAL
< 1296845747 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Usually they are external programs which inject stuff into the target process and then terminate
< 1296845747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and reverse-engineering a copy-protection scheme for the purpose of circumventing it used to be legal, until they specifically banned it via the DMCA
< 1296845755 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how these operate really
< 1296845767 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SC2 has some pretty sophisticated protection
< 1296845778 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a messed up VM with randomised opcodes etc
< 1296845779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sadly, yes.
< 1296845782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I can't find the comic
< 1296845784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fuck the DMCA.
< 1296845786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could even copy a trademarked logo for the purpose, if it was needed as a signing key
< 1296845796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it has some good ideas, but a lot more bad ideas
< 1296845807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually, *that* is entirely legal.
< 1296845810 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only worked my way around Warden in Diablo II, which was quite easy though
< 1296845817 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never dealt with any sophisticated systems like that
< 1296845827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the citation handy, but that's actually been in court.
< 1296845831 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the ones which operate at a kernel level with their own signed drivers
< 1296845838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed, there's precedent like that; although I'm worried about SCEA vs. Hotz, where the accusation is basically that except with the trademark
< 1296845854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*without the trademark
< 1296845870 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I know some people who do PS3 hack dev
< 1296845872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something about a printer cartridge having a very small amount of code in ROM, and it was successfully argued that copying this ROM did not consist of a circumvention device.
< 1296845872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:07:46 <ais523> pikhq: hmm, I never realised that the breaks in proffessional American football were deliberately lengthened to make room for adverts
< 1296845873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*professional HAHA
< 1296845877 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no interest in consoles myself
< 1296845895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know what, I wrote it with one f, got confused, then changed it
< 1296845897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:11:05 <ais523> hmm, what did they do to annoy Blizzard wrt that? it presumably wasn't botting
< 1296845897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was in reply to kfr
< 1296845902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my spellchecker seemed to be happy in both directions
< 1296845920 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this "POTATO" -language looks like pretty fun
< 1296845923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sometimes randomly decides not to check at all, or to draw the red underscores outside the text box where they're occluded by the rest of the window
< 1296845932 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he doesn't seem to concern editing at all!
< 1296845955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes when I design a language I don't even worry about source code format
< 1296845963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. DownRight, which I suspect /still/ isn't on the wiki
< 1296845964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright law is *so* fucking nuts.
< 1296845969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and completely unenforcable)
< 1296845972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: s/Copyright //
< 1296845977 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of my relatives is an IP lawyer :/
< 1296845987 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He probably sues people like me for a living
< 1296845989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At least the *premise* of most law is still workable.
< 1296845998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: good point
< 1296846031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright law nowadays is broken all the way down to the very idea.
< 1296846067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, reading a comparison of American football and rugby, you often wonder how rugby players manage to move the ball forwards at all, because what the attacking side can do seems like a subset of what they can do in American football, whereas the defending side seem to have much the same abilities or better
< 1296846097 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 and they have far less protection lol
< 1296846102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they certainly manage to. And did in American football before the legalisation of the forward pass.
< 1296846106 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think injuries in Rugby are more common
< 1296846122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sorts of contact are less dangerous, though; in rugby, you have to aim for the legs
< 1296846125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(amusingly, this was done for the sole purpose of reducing injuries.)
< 1296846130 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok
< 1296846130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in American football, I think you can aim anywhere
< 1296846147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Certain forms of contact are barred, though.
< 1296846153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "rugby tackle" is actually a sort of tripping people using your arms
< 1296846172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, hitting someone with your helmet is a major penalty.
< 1296846200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make sense
< 1296846222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that in ice hockey, there's a rule against removing your sweater (and they're actually tied down to stop the players doing it)
< 1296846239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it used to be an optimal strategy to prevent your opponents hanging onto you while trying to beat you up
< 1296846273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably the best rule of that nature, though, is the rule against transparent swimming costumes in synchronized swimming; it's the sort of rule that makes you think that it must be there for a reason)
< 1296846297 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o
< 1296846311 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't they permit nude swimmers? Prudes
< 1296846318 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, you can't pull someone down by their helmet.
< 1296846332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: I don't see how being naked would violate a rule against transparent swimming costumes, although perhaps only because I'm overly literal
< 1296846352 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose they want to prevent nudity
< 1296846363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American prudishness and all.
< 1296846366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1296846369 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1296846381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got the fundamental difference between American football and rugby, anyway; in rugby, if you're tackled you have to drop the ball, but if a team-mate picks it up they can just pass it sideways and keep on going
< 1296846387 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that waving your boobs around gives you an unfair advantage
< 1296846387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that happens quite a lot in rugby union
< 1296846397 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're supposed to be rewarding skill, not biology
< 1296846421 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or penises
< 1296846424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~^~((!^~)())((~:(, )*S~:(^~!^)~a*^:^*a~^!a*)~a*^:^):^
< 1296846425 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597,  ...out of time!
< 1296846431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in rugby league, you're limited to doing it four times between change of possession, meaning it's common to kick on the fifth tackle just like american football often punts on the fourth down)
< 1296846445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're really having fun with that, aren't you?
< 1296846450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1296846453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in American football, if you're tackled you stop play.
< 1296846459 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: male synchronized swimmers? :P
< 1296846469 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia I'm sure it exists?
< 1296846477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It definitely exists.
< 1296846478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed
< 1296846489 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if there's an Olympic category for women
< 1296846493 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be one for men, too
< 1296846505 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise that would be discrimination :'(
< 1296846509 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah of course it exists. but it's still not a common thing to expect.
< 1296846516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one interesting difference, incidentally, is that in rugby you can still do the equivalent of a field goal, but have to bounce the ball and kick it on the rebound, in order to make it more difficult
< 1296846528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise, people would get them all the time, the way the offside rule works
< 1296846535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, my underload compiler is going well
< 1296846541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's even the first one to follow the standard entirely
< 1296846545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay!
< 1296846550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first implementation, that is
< 1296846552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever
< 1296846560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for ais523 to ask
< 1296846562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it handle literal NUL correctly?
< 1296846570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, but that's not what I mean
< 1296846584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well, I don't think it can print them out on the C side, although it might actually end up being able to for various reasons
< 1296846585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Underload doesn't special-case it, but most things do, so it's worth checking)
< 1296846587 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it about the stuff that the wiki says no one impleemnets?
< 1296846589 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was no rules in american football
< 1296846590 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implements
< 1296846593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: indeed
< 1296846595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think it fails on invalid Unicode, but that's a bug I need to fix
< 1296846600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not going to guess how it's compliant?
< 1296846606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is definitely referencing the " quoting stuff
< 1296846617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep
< 1296846620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: well there have to be some rules, or you wouldn't be able to tell who'd won
< 1296846682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: It's got rules that evolved out of rugby.
< 1296846762 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Cheery> I thought there was no rules in american football <- err what?
< 1296846766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, Wikipedia seems to have solved the debate about what [[football]] should mean by writing a full article at every plausible title
< 1296846767 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are tons of of rules
< 1296846776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[football]] itself is a comparison of different games called "football"
< 1296846788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: you're showing a Vorpal-like level of missing the point there, I think
< 1296846790 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you be able to have any kind of formal competition otherwise?
< 1296846794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they call football "association football"
< 1296846794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery was trying to make a joke
< 1296846795 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. In my current vision of GoTris, single eyes are just as alive as two eyes
< 1296846806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be stupid, jokes are for academics
< 1296846820 0 :kfr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorpal_sword ?
< 1296846828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you supposed to play football if there are no rules?
< 1296846835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:24:58 <kfr> I mean if there's an Olympic category for women
< 1296846835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:25:02 <kfr> There must be one for men, too
< 1296846835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:25:14 <kfr> Otherwise that would be discrimination :'(
< 1296846835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying it _wouldn't_ be discrimination?
< 1296846838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it very obviously would be
< 1296846842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The way it used to be done. With much violence.
< 1296846845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kfr: Vorpal's a user in this channel, although I think that might have inspired the nickname
< 1296846865 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jabberwock
< 1296846870 0 :Jabberwock!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo
< 1296846888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: famously, in Olympic beach volleyball, there are restrictions forcing the women to wear skimpy clothing, but men are allowed to wear as much as they like
< 1296846893 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how are you supposed to play 1kbwc? how are you supposed to play calvinball?
< 1296846896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, that's terrible
< 1296846900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have some maximum amount of skin that's allowed to be covered, or something stupid like that
< 1296846927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they attempt to justify those restrictions?
< 1296846938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "We dislike fundamentalist Muslims"
< 1296846940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I naturally assumed upon hearing that there were clothing restrictions that they were to stop the competitors revealing too /much/...
< 1296846944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just a guesse)
< 1296847004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still hungry
< 1296847009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably a good thing
< 1296847052 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the justification is "we want people to actually tune in on TV"
< 1296847120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't restrictions on how much the guys can wear get the ladies to tune in? Or is there some sort of difference between guys' interest in ladies and ladies' interest in guys?
< 1296847128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a bit confused on this point
< 1296847149 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is you don't have to have a rule to convince guys to take off their clothes
< 1296847250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *guess btw
< 1296847284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well, male beach volleyball generally wears a shirt and shorts
< 1296847310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, can you relate some horror stories about the NetHack source code?
< 1296847321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Oh, you could do a struct map_flags { } with independently named single-bit bitfields. Didn't you want real bitfields in there somewhere?
< 1296847321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Even NetHack has bitfields!
< 1296847327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie doesn't have the adequate fear of God in him.
< 1296847333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you like; do you know about the famous Yeenoghu touch of death bug?
< 1296847350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, and nor does fizzie, and he wants to know! in _detail_
< 1296847352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that reminds me of UF
< 1296847380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably easier to read the explanation in the wiki than to have me relate it: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Yeenoghu#.22A_ludicrous_bug.22
< 1296847398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes fizzie, read all of that!
< 1296847420 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: i haven't read that in a long long time.
< 1296847427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, death kills you on touch?
< 1296847441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> kfr: Vorpal's a user in this channel, although I think that might have inspired the nickname <-- uh?
< 1296847458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sigh
< 1296847467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tl;dr: a switch statement had a case with a fallthrough, extra code was added just /after/ the fallthrough without the devs noticing, everyone assumed it was deliberate due to the /* fall through */ comment
< 1296847480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mentioned you, kfr wondered if it was a Vorpal Blade reference
< 1296847482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh found the context now
< 1296847501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, nethack has a curses interface?
< 1296847509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks ugly
< 1296847517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jabberwocky
< 1296847518 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does it *normally* use?
< 1296847525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: terminal escapes
< 1296847531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1296847538 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't see the first mention. Strange
< 1296847539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Death can kill you on touch, but if you're immune to that, and you generally are by the time you reach him/her/it, it drains max HP instead
< 1296847542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long ago?
< 1296847544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /me ponders vandalising the old nethack wikia once the moving notice is removed
< 1296847546 0 :Jabberwocky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal
< 1296847561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jabberwocky, that highlights
< 1296847561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't bother, anons are doing that enough by mistake as it is
< 1296847565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1296847566 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it was inside a word
< 1296847581 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems "Vorpal-like" didn't highlight me.
< 1296847582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was someone who was going around "correcting" the source code quotes by changing Sprintf to sprintf and removing unnecessary parens
< 1296847583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange.
< 1296847604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ever played df btw?
< 1296847609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is incorrect in that it's a semantic difference, /and/ incorrect in that it's a quote
< 1296847613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant more the kind of vandalism that made the pages useless, to avoid nethack.wikia.com becoming a wikia ghost town
< 1296847613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, but I know quite a bit about it
< 1296847616 0 :Jabberwocky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1296847619 0 :Jabberwocky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is weird
< 1296847621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that'd likely be noticed and reverted
< 1296847629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. a place that people read and very occasionally edit because they don't have any clue that the wiki moved)
< 1296847634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, thus "ponder"
< 1296847634 0 :Jabberwocky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think NickServ's either asleep or dead.
< 1296847634 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think you would like it. Though I'd like to add that nethack is probably easier
< 1296847647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Tjr (sort-of chief admin on nethackwiki) thinks that doing that will only give them page rank
< 1296847650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nickserv works for me
< 1296847659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not open-source, that removes half the fun in the game for me
< 1296847668 0 :Jabberwocky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NickServ threatened to change my nick
< 1296847671 0 :Jabberwocky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still hasn't done so
< 1296847672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an RMS-level open source fan, but I consider it a feature, and one that adds quite a bit
< 1296847685 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like being able to check how it works?
< 1296847687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jabberwocky: still doesn't mean you should go around stealing other people's nicks!
< 1296847695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the source code to DF would be almost useless
< 1296847698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the logic is so hideously complex
< 1296847705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep; and write patches, and look for exploits
< 1296847715 0 :Jabberwocky!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :NotTheRealJabber
< 1296847718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: DF has mods
< 1296847721 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1296847727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you can do the former, pretty much
< 1296847728 0 :NotTheRealJabber!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm not really XMPP
< 1296847728 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296847728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually parts are quite straight-forward in df
< 1296847732 0 :NotTheRealJabber!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe it or not
< 1296847733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for instance, I wrote this today: http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/DOS/NetHack.html#TimeSystemAbuses
< 1296847752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, you can't read the code, but you can clearly modify it, although I'm not sure how
< 1296847754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most games are pretty hard to analyse in that level of detail
< 1296847754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is because as far as I can tell df behaviour is pretty much controlled by a text config files
< 1296847757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it has an API
< 1296847758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the moding that is
< 1296847764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, really
< 1296847764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1296847768 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229029206.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296847769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be very in-depth files then
< 1296847786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah the definition of what a dwarf is is 400 lines it seems
< 1296847795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm relatively happy with Neverwinter Nights; it's half open source in that it's an engine + a game written in that engine, the engine is closed-source but the files it actually runs are visible-source
< 1296847800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lines like:
< 1296847802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
< 1296847802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
< 1296847806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1296847808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. no redistribution rights, but you can look at it and change it locally)
< 1296847809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUES]
< 1296847810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
< 1296847818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh this is extreme:
< 1296847821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
< 1296847821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
< 1296847821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
< 1296847823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"standard head positions" sounds like like df
< 1296847828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Asteroids II comes with full source code and rights to distribute changed versions to those granted the same license
< 1296847833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (and rights to distribute /patches/ to anyone)
< 1296847841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1296847849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a comment says it has sinew only for wounds simulation to work out
< 1296847851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, that's pretty close to open source except with the existing-license requirement, I like it
< 1296847852 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very df
< 1296847856 0 :me2ufool!~Agents@70-90-25-214-BusName-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296847860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ooh nails are mentioned in there!
< 1296847866 0 :me2ufool!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1296847870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I was wondering about something similar myself if I ever needed to make money from a program
< 1296847871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi me2ufool
< 1296847872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and you can also sell your changed versions
< 1296847879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as you make sure the buyer owns the original game
< 1296847886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's typical of open source, isn't it?
< 1296847889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but all distributed changes must be "open source"
< 1296847898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although very unusual for commercial, I think
< 1296847900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except, you can choose one of two licenses
< 1296847916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: either you can release your changes under what essentially amounts to the GPL, or the same license I'm talking about
< 1296847938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you can make your own extensive commercial mod of it, as long as you use the same license
< 1296847942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can just release it "normally"/
< 1296847946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$//
< 1296847950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now the two issues with this are
< 1296847955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Asteroids II doesn't yet exist, and
< 1296847955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but how do you as the original author make money of it?
< 1296847958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) Asteroids II doesn't yet exist.
< 1296847963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: by selling it
< 1296847970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the source is available only to those who purchase it
< 1296847983 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but one could make a mod that patches pretty much every line a bit then release that under the GPL variation?
< 1296847990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, being nonexistent is a little ridiculous there
< 1296847995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would in effect sell just one copy
< 1296848001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, don't blame me, blame Phantom_Hoover!
< 1296848004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or did I miss something?
< 1296848009 0 :NotTheRealJabber!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, same as closed-source?
< 1296848011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the whole point of it being a "patch" is that you can't reconstruct the original
< 1296848012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, possibly, but i find that incredibly unlikely... and there'll be some sort of reasonability clause in the patches
< 1296848015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a patch any more if you can
< 1296848018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, what ais523 said
< 1296848028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes well, what about diff context.
< 1296848028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have a bunch of -s followed by the original lines, and then a massively changed version
< 1296848039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it depends on your intent, etc.
< 1296848059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ais523: (this arose after I tried to figure out how a games company could be even more Good(TM) than Introversion)
< 1296848079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the third problem with Asteroids II is that it's not written in a language anybody knows or has a compiler for. :p
< 1296848085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't really believe in good/evil companies, individual companies tend to be so inconsistent in the matter
< 1296848110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd imagine people like romhackers would go to huge lengths to make sure that the diffs didn't contain context at all
< 1296848119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm a bit tricky to define that. Okay it is clear cut if you do it as one patch. But what if there are a number of separate patches (possibly different authors) that lets you reconstruct the complete source due to covering it all (or so much of it that the rest would be trivial to implement)
< 1296848144 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm then it is difficult to be sure that it applies correctly
< 1296848146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you don't have to make a program that can tell you if the patch is illegal or not, that's what judges are for
< 1296848159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: release a hash of the modified version
< 1296848166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: context in patches would of course be allowed
< 1296848167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1296848178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but really, the most convenient thing to do would be to only post it in a place where you can reasonably assume everyone owns the game
< 1296848184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g., in some "purchasers only" forum
< 1296848191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can post as much context as you like
< 1296848215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well what if someone wants to apply two different patches. A lot of work then. I guess you could reconstruct each separately locally and create a context patch and then try to apply them. Then make a context free one of the result
< 1296848217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1296848242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that might work better indeed
< 1296848259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you know what happens if you try to apply two different patches to machine code?
< 1296848277 0 :NotTheRealJabber!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't forget to breathe
< 1296848304 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unpredictable results I would imagine!
< 1296848338 0 :NotTheRealJabber!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo
< 1296848365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people manage it with minecraft
< 1296848367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's java bytecode
< 1296848379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it is generally problematic if in the same class file
< 1296848385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: java bytecode isn't so full of literal offsets, IIRC
< 1296848399 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I intend to earn money from a program, I would still probably just license it under the GPL, and put some trademark restrictions, printed documentation, and so on.
< 1296848401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: eh, better light/grass works with mipmapping
< 1296848408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they share classes
< 1296848413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this was even before it used modloader)
< 1296848424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they touch the same .class? How do you do it without modloader then
< 1296848432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manually creating a combined version?
< 1296848447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you copy the mipmapping class in, and then use the better light/grass *patcher*
< 1296848448 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296848449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which patches the bytecode
< 1296848474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, another df definition example:
< 1296848476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	[ATTACK:SCRATCH:CHILD_TISSUE_LAYER_GROUP:BY_TYPE:GRASP:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL]
< 1296848476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
< 1296848486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [.. several lines cut out here ... ]
< 1296848490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1296848507 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would ensure the trademark license allows using these trademarks for compatibility reasons, in case you live in a country which does not permit it by fair use or that the trademark laws are changed later on to deny this type of fair use, to ensure that my trademarks still remain fair.
< 1296848513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh and comments seem to be any line *not* starting with [ as the first non-whitespace
< 1296848550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps ]\n ... \n[ is the comment marker?
< 1296848551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it's safe to remove a key from this keyboard
< 1296848572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-02-04 20:00:00 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG :hello, world!
< 1296848573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess the format
< 1296848584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: So, in sum, "don't be an asshole" would be your policy.
< 1296848595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: reminds me of JSON
< 1296848599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't think so... Since there is a comment before the first [ in some files, and none in other ones
< 1296848617 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it would be weird to start a file with a end comment marker
< 1296848619 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an*
< 1296848624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that makes a lot of sense, actually
< 1296848628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: as someone presently eating weetabix, I must kill you
< 1296848636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> ais523, and it would be weird to start a file with a end comment marker
< 1296848639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literate dwarfing
< 1296848643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1296848652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I had plans for a "comment backwards to start of file" pp-directive in Overload
< 1296848655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there aren't enough comments to claim it as literate
< 1296848674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, there were something like 32 or 64 different sorts of comment markers, they contained a bitfield with options for how far they commented in each direction
< 1296848680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and precedence, etc
< 1296848691 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh.
< 1296848693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could use a more urgent sort of comment if there were things that looked like comment markers in your comments
< 1296848702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1296848702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the details, although I was aware at the time that it was insane
< 1296848715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now I know why overload is still vapor ware. You spent too long on designing comments to get anywhere
< 1296848717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1296848728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, the whole thing was probably inherently unworkable
< 1296848730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothesis: if someone's first five languages were esolangs, they'd turn out like ais523
< 1296848753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a real ancestor of underload (underload is simply one of the many possible tarpits that's a restriction of overload)
< 1296848762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean he learned an esolang before any main stream language?
< 1296848771 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or that he created esolangs first
< 1296848781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, he didn't, but he's like someone who did (the former)
< 1296848786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1296848792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I don't think my first few languages were esolangs, but at least one was moderately insane
< 1296848798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a database scripting language called PAL)
< 1296848801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've been trying to figure out what the "quintessential esolangs" are in my opinion
< 1296848815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: brainfuck, INTERCAL, Underload, Unlambda are what I've thought of so far
< 1296848818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe those are the Big Four
< 1296848828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and Unlambda
< 1296848832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL isn't on that list for me, it's on a different list
< 1296848832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, befunge is pretty big too
< 1296848836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, befunge
< 1296848837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with Befunge
< 1296848840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: brainfuck, INTERCAL, Underload, Unlambda and Befunge are what I've thought of so far
< 1296848843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really?
< 1296848845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what list is that?
< 1296848854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty much listing the "classics" here
< 1296848865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, I think Underload counts as a classic -- I'm surprised it took until 2006 to invent it)
< 1296848866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are two ways an esolang can become classic
< 1296848877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computational interest, like brainfuck/underload/unlambda
< 1296848881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably non-tarpits. Neither intercal nor befunge are tarpits really
< 1296848902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and general insanity that catches the minds of a great number of people, like intercal, befunge, brainfuck
< 1296848909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy to put brainfuck in both lists there
< 1296848910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, a duplicate there
< 1296848924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose LOLcode should be in the second list too, much as I'm loathe to put it anywhere
< 1296848926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, if someone asked me "I want to learn esolangs; which should I look at first?" I'd answer "brainfuck, INTERCAL, Underload, Unlambda and Befunge(-93)"
< 1296848931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-98 isn't a classic)
< 1296848940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, arguably compiling befunge is computationally interesting (for some definitions of computationally).
< 1296848943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think -98 is inherently more awesome than -93, though
< 1296848970 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK that is not a bad choice I guess
< 1296848982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, -93 is more of a tarpit
< 1296848984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more of a classic
< 1296848991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-93 isn't really a tarpit
< 1296848992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't tell someone to look at -98 before -93, that's just silly
< 1296849000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, being not a tarpit is the whole point of Befunge, I find
< 1296849000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's more of a tarpit than -98!
< 1296849010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-98 is amusing but it's not more awesome than -93 I don't think
< 1296849012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus -98 is befungier than -93
< 1296849022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-93 is annoyingly limited, -98 is almost practical
< 1296849027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/wumpus.bf <-- this is why -93 is a classic
< 1296849028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-93 is a non-Turing tarpit.
< 1296849029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1296849038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd say it's the program itself that's awesome there
< 1296849041 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 1) as ais said 93 is no tarpit. 2) where does it say it has to be tarpit-ish to be an esolang?
< 1296849045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't care what you think, you're wrong :P
< 1296849048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for managing to do that despite the limits of -93
< 1296849061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's like saying brainfuck isn't an esolang, just every brainfuck program is
< 1296849070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would you actually suggest learning INTERCAL btw?
< 1296849080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, but I'd suggest looking at it
< 1296849083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reading the manual, probably
< 1296849088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd suggest it, especially modern INTERCAL as opposed to INTERCAL-72
< 1296849097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although reading the original manual first is probably better to get the attitude right
< 1296849099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the manual is the main reason to look at INTERCAL
< 1296849100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect you could be held legally liable for any insanity caused by suggesting someone learning INTERCAL!
< 1296849101 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would suggest it. But it is OK to write only one program with it if that is what you want to do.
< 1296849102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think INTERCAL is really worth learning
< 1296849109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learning /about/, yes, but not learning
< 1296849113 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1296849120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a pity, really; the control flow model in modern INTERCAL is really interesting
< 1296849122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, I can't even write non-trivial BF programs
< 1296849128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I sometimes find myself wishing for it in real languages
< 1296849135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but _writing programs_ in BF is boring
< 1296849140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you write a non-trivial befunge program?
< 1296849148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only INTERCAL had remotely sane expressions, in addition to what it actually has, and some sort of string handling, I think it'd be a practical lang
< 1296849152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also yeah the fun part with BF is writing optimising compilers
< 1296849162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The features of INTERCAL are not really completely different from other programming languages, but they are different from most. Three of the features of INTERCAL are in dc as well. And some machine has something like the INTERCAL select operator.
< 1296849170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, I don't know Befunge at all
< 1296849173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with remotely sane expressions it wouldn't be INTERCAL at all
< 1296849179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Underload is my best esolang, and I'm not very good at that, either
< 1296849183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: indeed, it failed slightly at its goal, but it has other goals
< 1296849184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never been one for writing substantial esolang programs
< 1296849195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, INTERCAL isn't so much about being difficult, as about being different
< 1296849199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you are more an implementer of esolangs?
< 1296849200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, dc is definitely a tarpit. :)
< 1296849201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Befunge isn't terribly complex.
< 1296849206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, "enthusiast"
< 1296849214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes that means being difficult for the sake of it, but ideally it'd be better and still find its own niche
< 1296849215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Someone hasn't seen -98.
< 1296849228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -108!
< 1296849239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, uh. That is complex to implement, but not really complex to code in
< 1296849240 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The features I refer to are: STASH RETRIEVE RESUME
< 1296849240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how are you doing on that spec, btw? presumably it should be -111 by now
< 1296849241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, but even then you can get the basics easily.
< 1296849245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or shall we just call it -11x
< 1296849260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you missed out the developments last spring?
< 1296849261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define PUSH(i) ...
< 1296849261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef NDEBUG
< 1296849261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define INVALID(s)
< 1296849261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else
< 1296849261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define INVALID(s) fprintf(stderr, "\n*** Invalid code, aborting: %s\n", s); exit(1);
< 1296849261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif
< 1296849263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define TYPE_0 T_QUOT
< 1296849265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STR_0 "(:aSS):aSS"
< 1296849268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STR_LEN_0 10
< 1296849269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quo_0 :
< 1296849271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUSH(1) DUPLICATE ENCLOSE OUTPUT OUTPUT
< 1296849273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return;
< 1296849275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1296849277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, slight flood
< 1296849280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a pity dc doesn't have ignore, or we could run an ignorret test on it to see what happened
< 1296849281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cpressey came in, decided to make his own Befunge-111 because he hates everyone, started doing it
< 1296849282 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with cpressy starting on a new more stringent definition.
< 1296849286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then gave up after Vorpal complained it was so different from -98
< 1296849293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I didn't really...
< 1296849299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's why he gave up. :p
< 1296849299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ouch, I'd like to have seen it
< 1296849304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :among other reasons, I guess
< 1296849306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it might still be up
< 1296849309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suggested it was an awesome idea but maybe it wasn't befunge any longer
< 1296849312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1296849316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: like Perl 6?
< 1296849324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once when writing a QBASIC program, wanted to have something like the DO RESUME #2 in INTERCAL, but QBASIC has the RETURN command is allowed to return to a specific label, so I made it return to the next line and then do normal RETURN after that.
< 1296849331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possibly, one of his three latest fungoid-esques are descendants of -111
< 1296849332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, more different than that actually
< 1296849379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what we need is a technical corrigendum and clarification to 98 really
< 1296849385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't even vaguely need that
< 1296849386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least two of my esolangs have been written about by Japanese people.
< 1296849386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would go a long way
< 1296849390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody but you thinks we need that at all :P
< 1296849390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh?
< 1296849393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been keeping track of catseye recently
< 1296849397 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I am not Japanese people)
< 1296849409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well Deewiant probably agrees or have agreed with me when working on mycology
< 1296849413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: RESUME #n is quite common in languages; it's RESUME .5 that makes the command interesting
< 1296849416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://catseye.tc/lab/Befunge-111-Specification-DRAFT.txt
< 1296849426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: people suck at interpreting the spec != we need a new spec
< 1296849434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the difficulty of interpreting it is a feature
< 1296849435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, at least it isn't HTML masquerading as XHTML
< 1296849442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, and dc can do that too
< 1296849442 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh catseye couldn't interpret some parts of it any longer :P
< 1296849447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, ambiguities in the spec can do with fixing
< 1296849448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: more feature
< 1296849452 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I rest my case
< 1296849458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cpressey broke half his site like that because pikhq bugged Gregor about him sending the wrong headers for about 5 years
< 1296849462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-emptive, sort of thing
< 1296849472 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So can TeXnicard; it is somewhat based on dc)
< 1296849486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: without me he wouldn't have had the .htaccess magic to get _some_ of the old html stuff working, anyway :P
< 1296849491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my fault he forgets >:D
< 1296849496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> ais523: cpressey broke half his site like that because pikhq bugged Gregor about him sending the wrong headers for about 5 years <-- wait, if pikhq bugged Gregor then why did cpressey get affected?
< 1296849516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more inspiration, I think. or preemptive avoidance of bugging.
< 1296849547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in my computer, I can just use C-V text/html
< 1296849571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: most browsers don't have that feature, although I was looking for it when that happened
< 1296849574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use C-V to override the content type heading sent by the server)
< 1296849585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you actually use it enough for it to be bound to a single control-letter combination?
< 1296849585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what I have done in the past is set up the extension .xhtml with the right mime type
< 1296849586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how http://catseye.tc/lab/Befunge-111-Specification-DRAFT.txt isn't Befunge
< 1296849602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed that one is
< 1296849603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems pretty faithful to me
< 1296849604 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably it is possible to make a extension for Firefox and maybe even other programs too, that you can do like that.
< 1296849613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one of the previous versions was not
< 1296849615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it breaks fingerprint nesting (as in, tame fingerprints are impossible by that definition if more than one exists), but that's probably just a bug
< 1296849630 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, although it is control-shift-letter combination.
< 1296849647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, by C-V you mean case sensitive V (so caps lock or shift)?
< 1296849658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize keyboards even distinguished the two
< 1296849666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, all key combinations are case-sensitive in this program.
< 1296849688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And C-v is just paste from clipboard)
< 1296849698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they generally are but usually you seem to list them with shift then
< 1296849754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use it when downloading a attached picture, some forum software marks it as application/octet-stream so I tell it to override the type to image/jpeg or image/png instead, so that it can be viewed.
< 1296849763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Ctrl+x/c/v were more common in Unix programs... the problem is that Ctrl+C is overloaded
< 1296849764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are they sensitive to num lock and scroll lock too?
< 1296849766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the definition of "unbounded" it sounds like interpreters should terminate if an integer over-/underflows
< 1296849772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other two are as well, but much less often used)
< 1296849776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't think along those lines, you'll end up inventing the Mac
< 1296849786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *inventing OS X
< 1296849791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yep, but they get to choose what the range is
< 1296849799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not to scroll-lock, but the numpad keys effects depend on num-lock on or off.
< 1296849800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think separate control/command keys are a good idea; only for backwards-compatibility
< 1296849804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm thinking more of separate command/control, which is a mac thing rather than an OS X thing
< 1296849805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is to change ^C to some other binding :)
< 1296849807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's hard to tell
< 1296849815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's OS X; before that, Control did not much of anything
< 1296849817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was just an extra modifier
< 1296849838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sure, but if you implement things as 32-bit ints you're expected to abort() as soon as one wraps around
< 1296849852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that would make sense, really
< 1296849855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C does the same thing
< 1296849860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no it doesn't
< 1296849865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what
< 1296849867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that signed overflow is undefined behaviour
< 1296849873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1296849873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is underflow?
< 1296849875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1296849876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1296849879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1296849883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nobody writes in C anyway
< 1296849886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the Control key could also be used in some Telnet program or something, in order to send a control code. In OS X, it is UNIX, so Control-C will interrupt, and so on, same as UNIX.
< 1296849891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they write in C-plus-extra-semantics
< 1296849891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general it tends to cause wrapping on modern systems, but crashing is entirely legal
< 1296849891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use unsigned to get defined behaviour
< 1296849893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as, overflow working
< 1296849903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love a strictly error-checking C compiler
< 1296849903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a DSP, saturating at the max or min value would be the most likely behaviour
< 1296849910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bound-checking, over/underflow-checking
< 1296849913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C's used to write those too
< 1296849916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that silly stuff
< 1296849917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call it undefined then, but demanding crashing is a bit of a downer
< 1296849917 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh actually gcc will use the overflow freedom to optimise loop conditions
< 1296849923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: haha
< 1296849927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Doesn't GNU C can do strict error checking if you tell it do so?
< 1296849941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, if you start with a signed integer and only ever increment it, gcc will assume it never goes negative
< 1296849946 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it warns you if it detects unsafe cases.
< 1296849946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimise away conditions like x >= 0
< 1296849956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes
< 1296849968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not bounds checking
< 1296849969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it has -ansi -pedantic, but it can't catch everything, it just checks a bit more strictly than normal
< 1296849979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make any out-of-bounds access fail
< 1296849981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at runtime, obviously
< 1296849983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, -pedantic issues warnings wherever the standard requires them
< 1296849986 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant -Wstrict-overflow or whatever it is called
< 1296849994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have no idea on that one
< 1296850007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /standard/ defines /warnings to be emitted/?
< 1296850008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*
< 1296850019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc -Wall enables it
< 1296850020 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then in the next version of GCC they have to fix it so that -ansi -pedantic will catch everything and make only standard C programs working
< 1296850023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, it defines "diagnostics"
< 1296850031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes man page says -Wall includes -Wstrict-overflow=1
< 1296850031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1296850031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's up to the implementer to decide what they are
< 1296850035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: impossible
< 1296850038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't detect all out-of-bounds accesses
< 1296850042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only at runtime
< 1296850044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's normally interpreted as diagnostic = warning or error
< 1296850065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :           -Wstrict-overflow=1
< 1296850066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               Warn about cases which are both questionable and easy to avoid.  For example: "x + 1 > x"; with -fstrict-overflow, the compiler will simplify this to 1.  This level of -Wstrict-overflow
< 1296850066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               is enabled by -Wall; higher levels are not, and must be explicitly requested.
< 1296850074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it goes up to level 5
< 1296850081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning about more and more stuff it optimises
< 1296850085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make sure that's at 5 by default to see what happens
< 1296850091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296850102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a -Wabsolutely-all
< 1296850105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in GCC, I cannot control the warning about casting numbers to pointers (or vice versa) without cast. I want to make that warning into an error (without making all warnings into errors), but I cannot do that.
< 1296850112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sets every single warning to maximum levels
< 1296850117 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296850123 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh level 5 is "Also warn about cases where the compiler reduces the magnitude of a constant involved in a comparison.  For example: "x + 2 > y" will be simplified to "x + 1 >= y"."
< 1296850127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that peer reset my connection again?
< 1296850134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes
< 1296850146 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so any warning replaces your screen with the warning in Impact while it blares it from your speakers?
< 1296850150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering who that peer is, and what the reset pattern is
< 1296850159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YES.
< 1296850160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what it should do, is if the executable is named "cc" instead of "gcc" then it will imply all the options to specify working exactly by the C standard as much as possible.
< 1296850171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's ME
< 1296850191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, maintaining a non-trivial C program as a Haskell string: brilliant idea?
< 1296850191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, x + 1 >= y is always a legal replacement for x + 2 > y, isn't it (although not vice versa)?
< 1296850195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  unlines [ "#define PUSH(i) ..."
< 1296850195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          , "#ifdef NDEBUG"
< 1296850195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          , "#define INVALID(s)"
< 1296850195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          , "#else"
< 1296850195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          , "#define INVALID(s) fprintf(stderr, \"\\n*** Invalid code, aborting: %s\\n\", s); exit(1);"
< 1296850196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, DON'T GIVE IN TO PEER PRESSURE
< 1296850196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          , "#endif" ]
< 1296850201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think there should be a -Wparanoid, which is like -Wextra + some other flags and just exludes those that give like 80% false positives
< 1296850211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the warning's in case x was MAXINT-1, in which case they'd be different in 2's-complement
< 1296850224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -Wabsolutely-everything
< 1296850227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what kind of false positives
< 1296850233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed
< 1296850235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I really want to write an anal C interpreter now
< 1296850235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't some of the warning flags conflict?
< 1296850239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that maintains its own memory array
< 1296850242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -Wparanoid should warn every time you do something that can't be automatically proven as defined and intended behavior.
< 1296850243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, in something as complex as gcc, I'd expect them to
< 1296850247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errors on any out-of-bounds array access
< 1296850251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well -Wunreachable-code tends to be pretty unreliable iirc.
< 1296850251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything undefined by the standard
< 1296850251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1296850264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :casting function pointers and back doesn't work
< 1296850265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make pointers contain the start and length of the allocation, as well as the place they actually point to
< 1296850267 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm
< 1296850271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because the function pointers refer to indices in the function array)
< 1296850271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some of those
< 1296850279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be the best way to do standards-literal bounds checking
< 1296850283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe, that's quite hard to do in an integral type though
< 1296850287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also -Wtraditional is useless generally
< 1296850287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't pointers have to be integral?
< 1296850288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not
< 1296850298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Casting function pointers and back works in some cases.
< 1296850298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used to warn about K&R vs. ANSI C differences
< 1296850298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a struct-type thing as long as arithmetic works
< 1296850302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: zeta C did that, btw
< 1296850303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something similar
< 1296850303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is utterly useless nowdays
< 1296850306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers were a cons cell
< 1296850312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c compiler for symbolics lisp machines)
< 1296850317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, standard-allowed?
< 1296850333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it's going through void, and going to function pointers of the right type, it's defined and works in the obvious manner.
< 1296850334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(func_t) (void *) (func_t) is allowed, right?
< 1296850336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Vorpal: fizzie: NetHack used to use "inline" as a variable name
< 1296850337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1296850337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1296850344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, casting it to the wrong function type = instant error
< 1296850357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm pinging all three of you as parts of different conversations there in a brilliant act of multitasking)
< 1296850361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is *(T *)x even valid?
< 1296850363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x isn't (T *)
< 1296850371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can't cast a function pointer into a void *.
< 1296850378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perverse
< 1296850382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ?
< 1296850388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depends on what T is.
< 1296850402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And what x is.
< 1296850403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, but only if T is unsigned char
< 1296850404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a quasi-quoter
< 1296850410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha
< 1296850410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if T and x are compatible
< 1296850415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: char will be signed in this, then
< 1296850419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and *(char *)x will fail
< 1296850425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but *(unsigned char *)x won't
< 1296850434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no OS-specific functions
< 1296850437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no read or write or sbrk or anything
< 1296850444 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes -Wuninitialized is unreliable too.
< 1296850445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every allocation must be done with malloc
< 1296850470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how could it not be, you'd need to solve the halting problem otherwise
< 1296850476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or calloc, or realloc?
< 1296850489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or free with a negative-sized argument?
< 1296850496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: first two: indeed (those are just library functions)
< 1296850499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last one: that's not legal, surely?
< 1296850506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm do you for C? Hm I guess so. Though it would be trivial to make a TC language where it does not require that
< 1296850510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even make sense, free doesn't take a size argument
< 1296850525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed
< 1296850532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only by forcing variables to be initialized at the first sign of uncertainty
< 1296850539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does memory allocation usually actually work?
< 1296850565 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to store the size somewhere, and tell somewhere which memory is used and which is free.
< 1296850568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *calloc(size_t nmemb, size) { void *ptr = malloc(nmemb * size); if (ptr == NULL) return NULL; return memset(ptr, 0, nmemb * size); }
< 1296850570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: at a high level, malloc reuses previously freed space if there's enough, or if there isn't, asks the OS for more
< 1296850572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*size_t size
< 1296850574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is that valid?
< 1296850581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if nmemb*size overflows?
< 1296850588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if nmemb * size is exactly INT_MAX+1?
< 1296850590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, wait
< 1296850592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hmm
< 1296850597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lead to a huge flamewar in comp.lang.c a while ago
< 1296850599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t can hold the size of any allocatable object, right?
< 1296850603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with various standards committee members around
< 1296850608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if nmemb*size overflows, the call wasn't valid anyway
< 1296850609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> elliott: Vorpal: fizzie: NetHack used to use "inline" as a variable name <-- awesome
< 1296850611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_but_
< 1296850613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is there a block size that it will always allocate a multiple of? Is there any kind of heading for the allocated memory?
< 1296850613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be checked for
< 1296850615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it comp.std.c?
< 1296850626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If nmemb*size overflows, I'm pretty sure you hit undefined behavior.
< 1296850635 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to use "inline" as a variable name, you can just define in the preprocessor?
< 1296850648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *calloc(size_t nmemb, size) { void *ptr; if (__builtin_overflows_on_multiplication(nmemb, size)) undefined_behaviour("calloc() arguments overflow when multiplied"); ptr = malloc(nmemb * size); if (ptr == NULL) return NULL; return memset(ptr, 0, nmemb * size); }
< 1296850649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada!
< 1296850652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> Vorpal: only by forcing variables to be initialized at the first sign of uncertainty <-- indeed I was thinking of "always default to null/0" though
< 1296850664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps it should be __BUILTIN_OVERFLOWS(size_t, nmemb*size)
< 1296850665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1296850673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: inline is a keyword. Aside from preprocessor defines, you can't use that.
< 1296850675 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some less low level languages do that iirc
< 1296850697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/DOS/NetHack.html contains a description of the DJGPP memory allocator (which I wrote), but I can't give you a link anchor because there isn't one; search for "The memory allocation algorithm" on the page
< 1296850731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> (func_t) (void *) (func_t) is allowed, right? ← No, it's not.
< 1296850732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the row was about whether calloc(65536,65536) or whatever the numbers were actually is undefined behaviour, or whether it's specified to return NULL and set errno
< 1296850738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whether it should succeed and allocate more than a size_t
< 1296850740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm
< 1296850743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming func_t is a function type.
< 1296850747 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I think it is?
< 1296850747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can't cast to and from function pointers at all
< 1296850754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and especially, you can't cast to and from /functions/
< 1296850756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm
< 1296850757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which are a separate type)
< 1296850759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If nmemb or size is 0, then calloc() returns either NULL, or
< 1296850759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       a unique pointer value that can later be successfully passed to free().
< 1296850764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "A pointer to void may be converted to or from a pointer to any *incomplete or object type*."
< 1296850768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my man pages suggest that it's undefined behaviour
< 1296850769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not to a function type.
< 1296850771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you got a link to C99?
< 1296850772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but neither nmemb nor size is 0
< 1296850777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or a pointer to a function.)
< 1296850777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly
< 1296850779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that case doesn't apply
< 1296850781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure C99 doesn't allow it?
< 1296850786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll look at c99 first
< 1296850794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That was directly from C99.
< 1296850801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/C99#Obtaining_the_Standard
< 1296850802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick your method
< 1296850806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can convert a pointer to one function to a pointer to any other type of function.
< 1296850809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm didn't it add some hack to make POSIX work or such?
< 1296850812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But you can't stick functions into void *s.
< 1296850814 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah right!
< 1296850815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia links to http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/WG14/www/docs/n1256.pdf
< 1296850816 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296850822 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know "inline" is keyword but I think it is possible to use preprocessor macro to override it, I have tried that and it worked.
< 1296850830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has the technical corrigendums in, I think
< 1296850841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want C99, N1124 is probably the best option, it's the first post-C99 draft of C0x
< 1296850845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION greps for calloc, slowly
< 1296850845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can pick a "generic function pointer" of any type you like (for example void (*)(void)) and use that.
< 1296850849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: N1256 is what I have
< 1296850853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you just can't use "void *" for functions.
< 1296850856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N1425 is the most recent draft, of C1x
< 1296850861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C99, TC3, "Septermber" 7, 2007
< 1296850863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Septermber
< 1296850865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not kidding
< 1296850872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, void* can't be used for function pointers?
< 1296850874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awww....
< 1296850876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: void (*)() (which is a different type), is a better choice for a generic function pointer, I think
< 1296850891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: of course not, there's no guarantee that functions and data are even in the same memory space
< 1296850891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does not appear to have calloc
< 1296850893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there it is
< 1296850899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL
< 1296850903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Description
< 1296850903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 The calloc function allocates space for an array of nmemb objects, each of whose size
< 1296850903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is size.The space is initialized to all bits zero.
< 1296850903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :261)
< 1296850903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns
< 1296850903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 The calloc function returns either a null pointer or a pointer to the allocated space
< 1296850905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's ridiculously underspecified
< 1296850912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the row
< 1296850915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*space.
< 1296850918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Since you need (and can) cast anyway, I don't think it really matters what you pick; but sure, I guess that's "more generic" arguably.
< 1296850926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's defined that size_t can hold the size of any allocatable object
< 1296850930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no obvious reason why it can't return an allocation of more than size_t bytes
< 1296850938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theweinerworks.com/?p=344
< 1296850940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: therefore, SIZE_T_MAX (I don't care if it's not called that), is the size of the maximum allocatable object
< 1296850941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, but that's contiguous space for /lots/ of allocatable objects
< 1296850946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr: Zach Weiner is awesome.
< 1296850950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the difference?
< 1296850952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: obviously, you cannot allocate an object bigger than that, since size_t is defined to be able to hol dit
< 1296850953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hold it
< 1296850959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you aren't
< 1296850962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just allocating more memory than that
< 1296850965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: therefore, the calloc should fail
< 1296850968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is divided into multiple objects
< 1296850969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and?
< 1296850971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1296850979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look up size_t's definition
< 1296850980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make a better C interpreter then I might replace the one in Enhanced CWEB with a new one, maybe.
< 1296850984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can access individual objects there via pointer arithmetic, but there's no implication that the /whole thing/ is an object
< 1296851010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t
< 1296851010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the unsigned integer type of the result of the sizeof operator; and
< 1296851011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1296851021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 The types used for size_t and ptrdiff_t should not have an integer conversion rank
< 1296851021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greater than that of signed long int unless the implementation supports objects
< 1296851021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large enough to makethis necessar
< 1296851031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it depends on sizeof
< 1296851075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so in fact, size_t is an unsigned integral type that can hold the size of the result of any expression, in bytes
< 1296851086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.std.c/browse_thread/thread/35ec063d81174821/c888bee3aeeba7df
< 1296851086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, calloc's definition speaks of arrays
< 1296851098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sizeof(array) = size of member * size of array
< 1296851099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a size_t
< 1296851108 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-82.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296851119 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is impossible to have an array such that sizeof(array) does not return a size_t with its nmemb*size in bytes
< 1296851125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can read that whole thread to see much more knowledgeable people than me argue this
< 1296851132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, calloc cannot allocate the array specified by nmemb=MAX, size=MAX
< 1296851144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, since it cannot, by definition, allocate such an array, the call fails to allocate
< 1296851160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should fail, returning NULL
< 1296851162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and setting errno
< 1296851171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agreed?
< 1296851181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems pretty clear-cut, after tracing size_t's definition back to sizeof
< 1296851183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should also look at defect report resolution 266, which says that objects are allowed to exceed SIZE_MAX bytes
< 1296851190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and considering that calloc says it allocates an _array_
< 1296851196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but not arrays
< 1296851199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably
< 1296851205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop presuming!
< 1296851206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> that has the technical corrigendums in, I think <-- what's wrong with that
< 1296851215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sizeof has to return the size of the array! it is defined to!
< 1296851218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nothing
< 1296851227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0 bytes is not the size of an array like that!
< 1296851230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sizeof can't return 0 in that case
< 1296851234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo, arrays must be under SIZE_MAX bytes
< 1296851242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the argument is that using sizeof on them is undefined behaviour
< 1296851245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the standard doesn't define it
< 1296851251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IMO, such an object would have to be a pointer
< 1296851254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sizeof can't do that to them
< 1296851261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1296851264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard doesn't say
< 1296851266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: read the thread, OK
< 1296851271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On objects whose size can fit into a size_t, sizeof returns their size"
< 1296851271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly, it doesn't define
< 1296851272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says
< 1296851279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sizeof returns a size_t, their size"
< 1296851279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the standard doesn't define something, that's undefined behaviour
< 1296851280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition
< 1296851287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see how it ended up so all over the place in C?
< 1296851288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it DOES define it
< 1296851291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof is defined on all objects
< 1296851293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and return their size
< 1296851295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*returns
< 1296851297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and returns a size_t
< 1296851304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "On objects whose size can fit into a size_t,"
< 1296851306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, arrays must be under SIZE_MAX bytes, there's no argument to it
< 1296851308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from your own quote
< 1296851312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, shit
< 1296851320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, the calloc is undefined behaviour. probably.
< 1296851357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thread went to 122 messages
< 1296851361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The "On objects whose size can fit into a size_t," quote was what the standard does *not* say.
< 1296851371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so elliott lied?
< 1296851381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, he said that is what the standard does not say.
< 1296851387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> the standard doesn't say
< 1296851387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> "On objects whose size can fit into a size_t, sizeof returns their size"
< 1296851398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, and I missed it due to comments in between
< 1296851412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd rather trust comp.std.c on this, who are really good at arguing such things
< 1296851419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and especially the defect report people
< 1296851427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are the same people who write the standard
< 1296851443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1296851445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'm still right
< 1296851465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calloc(x,y) where x*y can't fit into a size_t fails
< 1296851468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, actually
< 1296851471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any program that says
< 1296851476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calloc(x,y) where x*y can't fit into a size_t
< 1296851477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Keith Thompson> In C90, [...] there was *no* way to apply sizeof to the argument created by calloc
< 1296851479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an illegal C program
< 1296851487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, an _illegal_ C program
< 1296851490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not one that merely triggers errno
< 1296851496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, this is the same as undefined behaviour
< 1296851504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that the C standard doesn't explicitly say what to do with such an illegal program
< 1296851518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, can you use a sizeof-based argument if there's no way to apply sizeof to the resulting object?
< 1296851529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, because calloc's definition says it allocates an _array_
< 1296851536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all arrays can be passed to sizeof to get their size in bytes
< 1296851540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, no they can't
< 1296851543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they can
< 1296851547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely because they can't if they were created by calloc
< 1296851550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write code that does that/
< 1296851551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(array) == sizeof(array[0]) * length of array
< 1296851555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: calloc doesn't return the array
< 1296851561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it returns a pointer to the array
< 1296851568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly, so you can't sizeof it
< 1296851570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just because you can't _access_ the array, doesn't mean it's not an array
< 1296851575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is said to be an array
< 1296851579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it does mean you can't apply sizeof to it
< 1296851581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, arrays can be passed to sizeof to get their size
< 1296851589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an object
< 1296851589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is not said to be an array; it is said to allocate space for an array.
< 1296851595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, true
< 1296851595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1296851600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up, this is painful :P
< 1296851612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're saying that arrays can be passed to sizeof, and that calloc's return is an array, thus calloc's return can be passed to sizeof
< 1296851615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously incorrect
< 1296851619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus one of your premises is wrong
< 1296851668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did _not_ say that
< 1296851671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never! did I say that
< 1296851679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was reasoning INTERNALLY TO CALLOC
< 1296851680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not directly, I'm showing your argument
< 1296851683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1296851685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not my argument
< 1296851691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is _not_ and has _never_ been my argument, and I do _not_ believe that premise
< 1296851691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't reason internally to calloc, it might not be written in C
< 1296851694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor have I ever believed it
< 1296851698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: irrelevant, it is defined in terms of _C arrays_
< 1296851713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, else, okay, let's define array to mean whatever it does in calloc's implementation language
< 1296851716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this nice language here
< 1296851716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but not defined in terms of _C arrays that can be passed to sizeof_
< 1296851720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "array" means "byte"
< 1296851725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a different concept
< 1296851727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *EVERY* C array can be passed to sizeof!
< 1296851734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, the internal ones in calloc can't
< 1296851734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's part of the definition of a C array, part of its concept!
< 1296851736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh
< 1296851737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up
< 1296851751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> that's part of the definition of a C array, part of its concept! <--- this is merely incorrect
< 1296851754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a pure false statement
< 1296851761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, it's purely true.
< 1296851778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the thread went on to argue about what sizeof(int[SIZE_MAX][3]) is
< 1296851784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an actual array type there
< 1296851788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still isn't clear-cut
< 1296851797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're really annoying me with this, please drop the issue
< 1296851813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't see how it could be anything but undefined behavior.
< 1296851817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're claiming something blatantly false, and at the same time claiming something directly reasonable from the standard as blatantly false
< 1296851884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the commenters on comp.std.c think that the standard contradicts itself, in that it's defined behaviour but what it's defined /to/ contradicts other parts of the standard
< 1296851908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then clearly the standard is fallacious.
< 1296851921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed
< 1296851945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about R5RS instead, that's an actually sane standard
< 1296851974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And of course, there's no possible way for size_t to be a bignum.
< 1296851982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it have some insane part? I don't remember, but I remember seeing some specific functions criticised
< 1296851986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed
< 1296852009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could be implemented as an arbitrarily bound bignum, I suppose. :P
< 1296852045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t can be a bignum in C minus the stdlib
< 1296852049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make char a bignum
< 1296852054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this fails with an stdlib because you have to define CHAR_BIT
< 1296852070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose the C standard itself may accidentally refer to char as having some number of bits even in the non-stdlib parts, invalidating this)
< 1296852091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, the maximum value of a char must be defined in an unhosted implementation as well.
< 1296852096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stddef.h must always exist.
< 1296852104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC)
< 1296852108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and limits.h, but that's not what elliott said
< 1296852129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a stdlib at all, the type is still implementation-defined, so it still has (by the standard) to be documented
< 1296852138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if documenting it as being infinite would work
< 1296852157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The thing is, *not having* that header is a violation of the standard.
< 1296852159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can you shrink with realloc?
< 1296852164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes.
< 1296852173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, indeed
< 1296852178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, although it's allowed to move the pointer if you do, and also to fail to free any memory if you do
< 1296852199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most implementations of realloc I've seen just ignore attempts to shrink, which is of course legal
< 1296852244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps not optimal (it'd be nice to be able to hand stuff back to the pool doing that), but certainly legal.
< 1296852267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, elliott's arguments were made in the comp.std.c thread too, and other people accused the person making them of circular reasoning
< 1296852273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my conclusion is, this flamewar's happened before
< 1296852278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and repeating it is a little pointless
< 1296852315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: here's a fun one: is "int x = INT_MIN;" legal?
< 1296852317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc(ptr, 0) is also allowed (but not required) to free(ptr) and return NULL.
< 1296852331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have your implementations special-cased that?
< 1296852334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: allowed but not required?
< 1296852339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's insane
< 1296852344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if it fails, wouldn't it leave ptr allocated and return NULL?
< 1296852355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was required to free and return null
< 1296852362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It could just do nothing, and it would be undefined behavior to access the pointer.
< 1296852369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's brilliant
< 1296852371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "If size was equal to 0, either NULL or a pointer suitable to be passed to free() is returned."
< 1296852371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(contrary to malloc, which is allowed to succeed at allocating 0  bytes)
< 1296852382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch
< 1296852388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1296852405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/aeIg <-- here's PedantiC's implementation of calloc and realloc
< 1296852417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Would it make you feel better to know that free(NULL) is a noöp?
< 1296852417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, INT_MIN isn't a legal value for integers because the definition of unary - doesn't give any leeway for it being applied to a value that can't be negated
< 1296852422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know that one
< 1296852432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REALLY ULTRA PEDANTIC
< 1296852450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm, that seems to have been just my non-conforming man page; but if I read C99 right, it can't return NULL at all in that case. (Perhaps because NULL is the error result?)
< 1296852451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> anyway, INT_MIN isn't a legal value for integers because the definition of unary - doesn't give any leeway for it being applied to a value that can't be negated <-- probably not true, but it's the same argument as the sizeof-based one
< 1296852468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "int x = INT_MAX - 1;" -- valid or not? :)
< 1296852474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1296852477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "int x = (INT_MAX + 1) - 1;" -- valid or not? :)
< 1296852484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obvious UB, signed overflow
< 1296852485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "The realloc function returns a pointer to the new object (which may have the same value as a pointer to the old object), or a null pointer if the new object could not be allocated."
< 1296852491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is defined as UB, IIRC
< 1296852499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who said that the expression on the RHS is evaluated as an int?
< 1296852504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe it's evaluated with long longs, and then casted to int
< 1296852505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With nothing special about 0.)
< 1296852510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the standard did, all the values there are ints
< 1296852515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Technically still a true statement, though.
< 1296852517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww :)
< 1296852517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are rules for the widths of intermediate calculations
< 1296852532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It would be entirely permitted to return the old pointer, a *new* pointer, or a null pointer.
< 1296852533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fun: short x = (SHRT_MAX + 1) - 1; is legal, for the same reason
< 1296852539 0 :me2ufool!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1296852542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insufficient comments about PedantiC's helpful error reporting
< 1296852543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if short happens to be shorterthan int
< 1296852545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shorter than int
< 1296852553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like lint on steroids, except going down a different path to splint
< 1296852555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's incorrect on the overflowing sizeof
< 1296852563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *size_t
< 1296852567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes
< 1296852569 0 :me2ufool!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are u guys programming something
< 1296852572 0 :me2ufool!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1296852573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's the whole argument isn't it
< 1296852580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me2ufool: well, this channel _is_ about esoteric programming languages
< 1296852584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention your __BUILTIN_OVERFLOW has a crazy calling convention
< 1296852584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me2ufool: No, just talking about details of a language standard ATM.
< 1296852586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right now, we're just arguing.
< 1296852587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close, though.
< 1296852587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean debating.
< 1296852592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I guess the legality of "free(ptr); return NULL;" depends on how you read the "new object could not be allocated" bit.
< 1296852592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not a function
< 1296852593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1296852595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a compiler builtin
< 1296852598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__BUILTIN_OVERFLOWS_TYPE
< 1296852598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1296852602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the calling convention is /still/ crazy
< 1296852604 0 :me2ufool!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...
< 1296852607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have signed petitions ever accomplished anything in the history of the world?
< 1296852610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: __BUILTIN_DESCRIBE_VARIABLE is a builtin too
< 1296852612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and builtins can have calling conventions as much as anything else
< 1296852615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think so
< 1296852620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: returning a __variable_description_t
< 1296852623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think not.
< 1296852630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (__builtin_incorrect_program is just a compiler-specific function)
< 1296852636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've accomplished getting someone executed before now, at least
< 1296852637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You live in a nation that exists courtesy of one such petition.
< 1296852638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses the functions on __variable_description_t to print out their types and values
< 1296852642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for helpful error reporting
< 1296852647 0 :me2ufool!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1296852657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: realy?
< 1296852658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really?
< 1296852660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very scary
< 1296852663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wars establish independence, not letters.
< 1296852664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: on the other hand, unsigned petitions are more useful as you don't have to worry about overflow
< 1296852676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, actually combining with an earlier statement ("If memory for the new object cannot be allocated, the old object is not deallocated and its value is unchanged") it can't do "free and return NULL" at all. It must either return a free()able pointer (old or new) or return NULL but keep the old pointer valid.
< 1296852677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew that was coming
< 1296852682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even thought Gregor was punning about that to start with
< 1296852685 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kills ais523 with a stick.
< 1296852696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was back in the days of dictatorial kings in the UK, when there was some sort of public rebellion-type thing
< 1296852699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tell that to Canada, then?
< 1296852708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except they went and did it with a petition to start with rather than fighting
< 1296852714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, i thought you meant recently
< 1296852719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like some Daily Mail type bullshit
< 1296852720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it went to fighting eventually, or at least the monarchy was worried, so they executed the ringleader
< 1296852734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, no, the "in the history of the world" was quite definite there
< 1296852754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know
< 1296852756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just interpreted your reply like that
< 1296852758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'mc ynical
< 1296852762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I'm cynical
< 1296852767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, on a much lesser scale. You realise that most ballot issues in many US states are put there because of a petition, right?
< 1296852783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I'd say that __builtin_malloced_size is almost as crazy as __BUILTIN_OVERFLOWS_TYPE
< 1296852792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the latter requires bignums in the general case, I think
< 1296852794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there was some discussion about it
< 1296852796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the compiler
< 1296852801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking whether implementations ever didn't know about it
< 1296852802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as they have a law stating "if a petition for a ballot issue gets $FOO signatures, it's on the ballot.")
< 1296852830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if the "what if it overflows size_t" argument comes up, but there was a "is that possible on all platforms?" argument
< 1296852858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could easily imagine a system where after "void *p = malloc(N);" you couldn't exactly deduce N from p, only an upper bound.
< 1296852887 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess I'm thinking more /unsolicited/ petitions.
< 1296852890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the malloced_size was meant to return the amount of memory that was actually used in that size, rather than N
< 1296852901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not things that are legally designated to be accomplished by petition.
< 1296852994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, that does sound more reasonable. Though I could still believe a malloc() implementation that deferred to some sort of a memory allocation syscall that tracked the size internally and didn't expose it at all to the user-space code. (In which case it certainly could be worked-around, but that wouldn't be very optimal.)
< 1296853014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Paying attention to written and signed attentions has long been a duty of the monarch in monarchies; often times, these petitions would actually have an effect.
< 1296853017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: DOS has one of those, I think I may even have contributed to the thread saying so
< 1296853025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an actual malloc-like syscall, rather than a sbrk-like syscall)
< 1296853071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And in the UK, it's still technically a duty of the House of Commons, though it's ceased to be a common matter.
< 1296853096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously, the House of Commons is here acting the name of the Crown in Right of the United Kingdom)
< 1296853104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/acting/acting in/
< 1296853107 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hmmmmmms loudly.
< 1296853121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you always cast an integral type to a pointer?
< 1296853123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually, they respond to petitions quite a lot, it's mostly done online nowadays
< 1296853130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah, good to know.
< 1296853140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no; in fact, I think it's at least implementation-defined whether you can do that at all
< 1296853162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can, though, there's an intptr_t which is a size of integer suitable for round-tripping to pointers and back
< 1296853169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which doesn't exist if you can't)
< 1296853176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intptr_t can not exist?
< 1296853181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's allowed to not exist, yes
< 1296853186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but has to exist if it would be meaningful
< 1296853222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd expect (void*)ULLONG_MAX to be meaningless on a 32-bit system, though, and defined as such
< 1296853226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with intptr_t being 32-bit
< 1296853240 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last case, ``1'' to ``1st'', is simplest, so it comes first.
< 1296853271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[th]s0[st]s1[nd]s2[rd]s3  dBr  100%d10%r10/1-1 0 1i*  d3-1d0i*  `0+L+>
< 1296853290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then PedantiC has no intptr_t!
< 1296853310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably all int<->pointer conversions are illegal
< 1296853336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1296853351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pointers are, in fact, this structure
< 1296853356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct __pointer_struct {
< 1296853367 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-149-99.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296853370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        size_t __pointer_start;
< 1296853377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        size_t __pointer_size;
< 1296853379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :};
< 1296853380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR SOMETHING
< 1296853383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that in C, it's legal to type-pun anything to an array of unsigned char then read it
< 1296853396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i need to have a type descriptor in there :D
< 1296853399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you probably want to randomize the internal representation to stop people exploiting it
< 1296853404 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pointers in C do not work that way, though
< 1296853404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and the current value of the pointer
< 1296853412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> so you probably want to randomize the internal representation to stop people exploiting it
< 1296853413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naw
< 1296853413 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296853416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they do according to the standard, just it's undefined what happens if you don't
< 1296853421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would break on any _other_ machine :)
< 1296853425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, they can
< 1296853429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the implementation does it
< 1296853437 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually, there's a form of int<->pointer casting that's perfectly lega.
< 1296853440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you can use the as-if rule in order to simplify them down to a single reference to memory
< 1296853440 0 :azaq23!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1296853442 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lemme find the type.
< 1296853445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: now wait for ineiros to disagree
< 1296853448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1296853449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie
< 1296853451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: not 0<->NULL, at least
< 1296853453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you're going to have a fixed-size pointer? You should at least add random padding based on the type.
< 1296853459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the as-if rule?
< 1296853470 0 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296853476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe they'll be done with bignums internally
< 1296853477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that an impl doesn't have to obey the letter of the standard if there's no program you could use to tell them apart without invoking UB
< 1296853481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do guess that is one way, as long as you can still do numbers adding and so on.
< 1296853481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no reason at all,
< 1296853482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all
< 1296853484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the letter of the standard's a little insane in all sorts of ways
< 1296853487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha
< 1296853492 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uh, 0 == NULL.
< 1296853496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that lets you have sane implementations
< 1296853501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: wrong
< 1296853501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that's a pointer == pointer cast
< 1296853502 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC.
< 1296853509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(int)0 == NULL is not necessarily true
< 1296853512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though 0 == NULL is
< 1296853513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1296853517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IIRC,
< 1296853517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296853518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x = 0;
< 1296853521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *foo = (void *)x;
< 1296853525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(int)foo doesn't have to be 0
< 1296853527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have to produce NULL
< 1296853530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as foo itself is a NULL-pointer
< 1296853546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, you'd expect (int)foo to be a segfault the sane way of doing it with that
< 1296853548 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1296853550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to sane nothing about the insane way
< 1296853554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you mean is, foo doesn't have to be NULL
< 1296853561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*say nothing about the insane way
< 1296853568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1296853574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but foo can't address anything
< 1296853575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1296853576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Okay, yeah, that's not actually a cast. 0 == NULL but "(int)0 == NULL" is UB.
< 1296853616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *know* there's an integer type that you can convert a pointer into and then convert back to a pointer and it's defined.
< 1296853622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it can, depending on how int <-> pointer is defined, and it's impl-defined
< 1296853635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's the already-mentioned intptr_t, which need not exist.
< 1296853640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm pretty sure doing arithmetic on it can get you undefined behavior.
< 1296853643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, right, that.
< 1296853682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, according to TDWTF sidebar, a bunch of students were asked to do a project on the pacific northwest tree octopus
< 1296853693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you can find out info about it online, although the info is blatantly lying
< 1296853702 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229031193.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296853707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the students refused to accept that it didn't exist, becaues it said online that it did
< 1296853716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, they are optional.
< 1296853720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no octopus in the tree (unless someone put it there).
< 1296853745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so intptr_t <-> pointer is defined if and only if intptr_t exists.
< 1296853746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it.
< 1296853759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "An integer may be converted to any pointer type. -- the result is implementation-defined, might not be correctly aligned, might not point to an entity of the referenced type, and might be a trap representation." So, uh... the conversion that way is always "legal", it's just that if the result is a trap representation doing anything with it could be undefined.
< 1296853765 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you can steal it from the water and put it on the tree and then tell everyone within range that there is tree octopus.
< 1296853782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: doesn't merely existing cause trap representations to crash programs
< 1296853794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right, your signed integers should /definitely/ have padding, and multiple trap representations
< 1296853797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think that's allowed
< 1296853807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aargh
< 1296853820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this isn't DS9K, just DS9Pedantic
< 1296853822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why bother, when the Internet will pretend there's tree octopi for you?
< 1296853836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but programs might assume that all the bits in an integer are meaningful!
< 1296853841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh no!
< 1296853864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't the point to correct their incorrect assumptions?
< 1296853890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sort of, but it's mainly things like erroring on out-of-bounds array access
< 1296853899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which won't break "most" programs, but is still something you don't expect C to do at all
< 1296853915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect padding bits in ints to break most programs either
< 1296853923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, the standard says they can happen...
< 1296853935 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least.
< 1296853952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, you can still in C99 have padding bits, and some combinations of padding bits are allowed to be trap representations. (A padding bit that is a parity bit is mentioned as an example.)
< 1296853969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is insane
< 1296853979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <zzo38> ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least.
< 1296853981 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :289) <zzo38> ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least.
< 1296854004 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think C is good, regardless of whether or not it is insane.
< 1296854030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make it so that all N-bit integers are actually 2*N bits, where the other half is padding bits and has the same values than the value bits except inverted; and any representation where first_half != ~second_half is a trap representation.
< 1296854039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, have you come up with any innovations in underload data structure representation?
< 1296854053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not really, ints and lists are really the basis of everything
< 1296854060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite many infrared remote controls send ints in that format. :p
< 1296854061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in underload, list via "cons cell" is simplest
< 1296854071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LIRC has a thing for it too.)
< 1296854074 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are taking the quote out of context. It doesn't say what "it" refers to in "Maybe it is better", you can out square brackets to tell you what it is, that is what other quotations do, too. (Here, "it" refers to internet lying, so put "internet lying" in square brackets)
< 1296854102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: elliott likes taking quotes out of context for amusement value
< 1296854114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "code, ~code" is pretty useful when 0s and 1s have different lengths (time-wise); you'll always have the same amount of 0s and 1s, and a fixed-length sequence.
< 1296854129 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, I didn't know that.
< 1296854141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: encoding 0 as 01 and 1 as 10 is also moderately common, in order to keep 0s and 1s in balance
< 1296854155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that isn't a joke, many communication systems require 0s and 1s to be reasonably balanced in order to avoid malfunction)
< 1296854171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as radio, and copper wire)
< 1296854183 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too; I don't quite recall if LIRC has an automagical way of doing that transformation to the entered codes, though.
< 1296854227 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best undefined behaviour ever was in very early versions of GCC if you didn't something obviously stupid (int *a; *a=1;) it would attempt to start nethack :-)
< 1296854234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of C's oddities only make sense when you consider it's meant to be a portable but rather low-level language.
< 1296854241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: it was on #pragma
< 1296854278 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought it occurred in a few places
< 1296854281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: Ah, yes, #pragma starting nethack, or hack, or rogue, or fortune, or just giving up, depending on what was available, IIRC.
< 1296854282 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 100%
< 1296854293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or Emacs running a simulation of the Towers of Hanoi
< 1296854299 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O
< 1296854301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, right, that was in the list.
< 1296854310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't quite give up, it printed "You are in a maze of twisty little compiler features, all different" (quote may not be exactly right)
< 1296854314 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've considered filing a bug requesting the feature in clang
< 1296854342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be very annoying if you actually used pragmas
< 1296854348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think gcc spports a pragma or two now, anyway
< 1296854366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does
< 1296854372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few pragmas required by C99, in fact
< 1296854378 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pragma pack and a few others
< 1296854385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sane thing to do would be to merge _Pragma and __attribute__, although I'm not sure if they did that
< 1296854385 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, _required_ ?
< 1296854390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the idea of requiring a compiler-specific pragma
< 1296854392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: #pragma STDC ...
< 1296854398 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1296854408 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is why I asked
< 1296854459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, #pragma.
< 1296854468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a misfeature.
< 1296854475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_Pragma is not as bad
< 1296854481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bear in mind that most langs have had pragmas for ages
< 1296854483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all just boring floating-point pragmas (#pragma STDC FP_CONTRACT on-off-switch, as well as FENV_ACCESS and CX_LIMITED_RANGE).
< 1296854494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBasic had them; and Algol-68 before that
< 1296854494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because you can't generate a #pragma with the preprocessor.
< 1296854496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just langs I know
< 1296854504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: _Pragma fixed that, as I said
< 1296854508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1296854517 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, #pragma is actually quite useful for requesting things of compilers without them taking other words as "reserved"
< 1296854522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can *kinda* do #pragma with the preprocessor. Conditional #include.
< 1296854539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. *shudder*
< 1296854541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1296854546 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pragma pragma pragma foo
< 1296854546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... a) ingenious, b) twisted
< 1296854551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think _Pragma is pretty weird; it's a preprocessor directive that can be generated by the preprocessor.
< 1296854561 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_pragma or #pragma ?
< 1296854573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296854582 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296854585 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I want to generate preprocessor directives from the preprocessor, so, instead I can use the prepreprocessor.
< 1296854610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that's why m4 was invented
< 1296854634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, I'm calling my compiler unad, I think you can probably figure out why
< 1296854647 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: m4 does not fit with C syntax very well.
< 1296854649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which compiler? underload? PedantiC?
< 1296854657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but it was designed to fit with C-style syntax
< 1296854658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ratfor)
< 1296854663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's closer to c syntax than cpp
< 1296854664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: indeed it doesn't; just because it was invented for that purpose doesn't mean it's good at it
< 1296854667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: underload
< 1296854683 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> ais523: btw, I'm calling my compiler unad, I think you can probably figure out why --> why?
< 1296854691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it fits with ratfor, but ratfor isn't C even if it is a bit similar.
< 1296854704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: i want to see if ais523 can figure it out yet :)
< 1296854755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*first :)
< 1296854768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is the recent edit on [[Brainscrambler]] a genuine fix or subtle vandalism?
< 1296854772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the first, but don't know
< 1296854782 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link?
< 1296854789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainscrambler
< 1296854794 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant link to edit
< 1296854796 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh
< 1296854802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it changed all instances of 2006 to 2004
< 1296854811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the sort of thing that's hard to check either way
< 1296854841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 won't even guess, pfft
< 1296854856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ask the ip, on the off-chance?
< 1296854871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Brainscrambler&diff=8478&oldid=5503
< 1296854877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you were still a WP admin you could check when the article was created/deleted
< 1296854887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it was on WP?
< 1296854895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, probably the creator added it without thinking too hard
< 1296854898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can check that anyway, don't need to be an admin to check the dates, just the content
< 1296854904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1296854915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you even going to guess? :)
< 1296854938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the article itself was created in 2006
< 1296854941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't meant the lang was
< 1296854949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I strongly suspect 2006
< 1296854971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, what kind of person invents a very minor esolang, then two years later, adds it to Wikipedia?
< 1296855056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sort of person who typically creates esolangs, unfortunately
< 1296855061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think asking the IP would work wel
< 1296855063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well
< 1296855064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does perl 6 embed code in strings?
< 1296855081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"{code goes here}"
< 1296855086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I realised when I said it that it was unfortunately a rather easy question to answer :)
< 1296855111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, interpolatedstring-perl6 is what i want
< 1296855151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aw come on, guess why it's called unad
< 1296855223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking online, the person who's meant to have created it is semi-famous, but there are no details on the lang itself
< 1296855280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous how?
< 1296855340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a WP article about them with 8 or so references
< 1296855357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please try to guess how this program works:     BArD91-0 1di
< 1296855383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the IP seems to be dynamic, so asking them wouldn't help
< 1296855386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave a talk page note
< 1296855387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, I'll tell you: underload = un derlo ad
< 1296855389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> un ad
< 1296855390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> unad
< 1296855394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SINCE YOU'RE TOO BORING TO GUESS
< 1296855409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dynamic IPs mean little nowadays
< 1296855412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, routers rarely reconnect
< 1296855422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're usually static for relatively long periods of time
< 1296855425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd still note on the IP talk page
< 1296855477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if ais523 is ignoring all unad talk
< 1296855625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your compiler is based on stripping out all the derlo.
< 1296855654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY
< 1296855663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (ais's fast underload interp is called derlo)
< 1296855674 0 :Lymia!~moe@adsl-68-95-252-93.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296855681 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs random people
< 1296855688 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, [pf]unny name
< 1296855698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you're not oerjan!
< 1296855712 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're not oerjan either!
< 1296855715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A packetfilterunny name?
< 1296855723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH FIZZIE
< 1296855724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUCH COMEDY
< 1296855733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUNNY NAME.
< 1296855742 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that is a [pf]unny response indeed
< 1296855769 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb nothing-2 +[]
< 1296855818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fyb leaderboard activity
< 1296855833 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_nothing-2: 1.0
< 1296855834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still moderately sure that the game's broken by long [....] chains designed to fail
< 1296855844 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v
< 1296855850 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :report.txt was empty before.
< 1296855872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, in the realm of What That Doesn't Even Make Sense What Are You A Java Programmer
< 1296855873 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you think that's bad?
< 1296855873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<deech> Is there versions of the IO Monad that only allow reads for example - called an RO monad for example. So if some function was in the RO monad we know that it can only read the filesystem.
< 1296855878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb [+][%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!:
< 1296855879 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !fyb <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/fyb/
< 1296855884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb ais_test1 [+][%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!:
< 1296855897 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_ais_test1: 72.8
< 1296855910 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you write "@@", you set the data pointer to the current code pointer.
< 1296855914 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let the implications of that sink in.
< 1296855934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't realise @ was quite /that/ broken
< 1296855948 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1296855952 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to write [+]
< 1296855956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, the program template I have there becomes better and better and better just by adding more % signs
< 1296855957 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write @+
< 1296855967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to do it via @ before now, but messed up somehow
< 1296855970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thought I'd do it the simple way
< 1296855971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb ais_test1 [+][%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!:
< 1296855975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, sorry for stealing your name
< 1296855980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i made the program better :P
< 1296855980 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_ais_test1: 60.0
< 1296855985 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's prefixed by user names.
< 1296855987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait what
< 1296855988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :randomness?
< 1296855999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, it's got ais523_ais_test1 to compete against
< 1296856005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is going to drive down the score as it's such a good program
< 1296856017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1296856026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb break [+][%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!:
< 1296856034 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_break: 44.3
< 1296856036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb lose @[+]++++++++++++++!
< 1296856037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb break [+][%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!:
< 1296856038 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_break: 54.0
< 1296856039 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_lose: 1.2
< 1296856042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh :D
< 1296856045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go away, other programs!
< 1296856046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1296856048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's saturate the hill!
< 1296856050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA
< 1296856059 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bring my response.
< 1296856065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer BF Joust, it's much more resistant to that sort of shenanigans
< 1296856065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb break2 [+][%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!:
< 1296856071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm all about shannigans
< 1296856073 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_break2: 37.2
< 1296856074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: link me to report.txt?
< 1296856078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/fyb/report.txt
< 1296856087 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/fyb/report.txt
< 1296856092 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You killed my @@ abuse bot.
< 1296856092 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1296856092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happened to have it at the time, the run of "lose" was just to make it generate more quickly
< 1296856093 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well.
< 1296856096 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still at the top!
< 1296856133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb litter [+][%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!:
< 1296856136 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_litter: 46.0
< 1296856140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: have you looked at BF Joust? it's another similar game
< 1296856143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so trickles off more programs
< 1296856144 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1296856162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a similar principle, but instead of aiming at the opponent's code array, you mess about with a shared data array instead
< 1296856171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives himself credit on the egojoust section of [[BF Joust]]
< 1296856172 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@86.241.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296856175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try to trick the other program into falling off the end, or else set the element they started on to 0 while they aren't looking
< 1296856191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made it sound like the tape length averaging and the polarities were the egojoust implementor's innovation :P
< 1296856192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implementer's
< 1296856201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust
< 1296856219 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb explode :@+[%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];:{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!;@@:{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!;
< 1296856221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, they were yours not Gregor's?
< 1296856222 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_explode: 14.8
< 1296856227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep
< 1296856233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: does ;: do anything but waste time?
< 1296856239 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::;
< 1296856241 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starts a new thread.
< 1296856244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear I really badly misunderstand the fyb spec
< 1296856247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and i was going to implement them, but Gregor beat me to it, the filthy jew^W^Wrespectable, but irritatingly quickly programming, member of society
< 1296856248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wrote ;:, not :;
< 1296856272 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;: is the end of a thread followed by the start of a thread.
< 1296856286 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb explode :@+[%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];:{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!;@@:{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!;
< 1296856289 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_explode: 46.0
< 1296856296 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb explode :@+[%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%];:{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!;@@:{>>}[+]++++++++++++++!;
< 1296856298 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_explode: 29.6
< 1296856300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make every other type of program go extinct!
< 1296856303 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange.
< 1296856316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, i can't even use c-mode
< 1296856319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38
< 1296856358 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing I dislike about FYB is that due to the @@ trick, you can reliablly generate a bot that will kill a target bot.
< 1296856372 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automaticly.
< 1296856378 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have it push other things off the hill too.
< 1296856380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: doesn't @ defect to the :, then + change it in-memory to a ;?
< 1296856385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't put 0 on the tape like ais_test1 does
< 1296856391 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh?
< 1296856396 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ sets the data pointer to the code pointer.
< 1296856396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at explode
< 1296856416 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the code being executed is @, the value has to be one away from overflow.
< 1296856419 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ causes it to overflow.
< 1296856421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is documented as moving the data pointer into your own code, not the enemy's code
< 1296856428 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does the opposite too.
< 1296856430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, elliott: We Jews are known for our programming prowess.
< 1296856431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying it moves onto that instance of the @?
< 1296856432 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ does this exactly.
< 1296856442 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, it sets the data pointer to the code pointer.
< 1296856452 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, it switches the data pointer from your program to the enemy's program, or vice versa.
< 1296856468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the "sets the data pointer to the code pointer" isn't in the spec at all
< 1296856476 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1296856476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder I was never any good at FYB
< 1296856480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYB is pretty much obsolete, dude :P
< 1296856494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that gets round my lightspeed trick
< 1296856509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYB isn't a massively bad idea, it's just let down by implementation somehow
< 1296856516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's your lightspeed trick?
< 1296856518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making [] always loop at least once would help
< 1296856536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what's shown up there, using a [%%%%....%%%] loop to move the IP faster than the other thread's data pointer can catch up with it
< 1296856540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except via @@, apparently
< 1296856561 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :litterer-2 basicly uses @@ to sprinkle lines of bombs all over the enemy's code.
< 1296856569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it works
< 1296856570 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hoping that it hits some code.
< 1296856579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly, even, kinda
< 1296856583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't it always land in the same place?
< 1296856598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, or does it always switch to the /enemy/'s code pointer?
< 1296856602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's broken beyond belief
< 1296856639 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, defect switches between the two tapes.
< 1296856652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I'm asking about where specifically on the tape it switches to it ends up
< 1296856653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: guess the language:
< 1296856654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define TYPE_{i} T_QUOT
< 1296856654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STR_{i} {show (toSrc bs xs)}
< 1296856655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STR_LEN_{i} {length (toSrc bs xs)}
< 1296856655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quo_{i}:
< 1296856655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{bodyToC xs}
< 1296856656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return;
< 1296856662 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp?
< 1296856666 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1296856669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that weird sort of C that LoseThos is written in?
< 1296856673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope
< 1296856674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: nope
< 1296856678 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C or something?
< 1296856681 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk?
< 1296856682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not C family
< 1296856690 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell?
< 1296856713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it could be Haskell + cpp, actually
< 1296856723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for that quo_ line
< 1296856724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Haskell with Perl 6 interpolated strings
< 1296856728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was bit dishonest, it's in a quoted string
< 1296856732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1296856734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoToC :: [[Flat UL]] -> Int -> [Flat UL] -> String
< 1296856734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoToC bs i xs = [$qq|
< 1296856734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define TYPE_{i} T_QUOT
< 1296856734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STR_{i} {show (toSrc bs xs)}
< 1296856734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STR_LEN_{i} {length (toSrc bs xs)}
< 1296856735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quo_{i}:
< 1296856738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using Perl 6 to generate Haskell?
< 1296856738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{bodyToC xs}
< 1296856739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return;
< 1296856742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|]
< 1296856744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, it's a Haskell module
< 1296856750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written by Audrey Tang, the creator of Pugs
< 1296856755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.InterpolatedString.Perl6
< 1296856756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wait, is that eval-ling Haskell at runtime?
< 1296856757 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's disgusting.
< 1296856761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's template haskell
< 1296856763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile-time
< 1296856766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew
< 1296856766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: what is?
< 1296856774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was the best multiple-line-strings-without-pain module i could find
< 1296856778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Haskell's string syntax sucks a bit)
< 1296856779 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I wait to see your response.
< 1296856780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is one of the languages least capable of doing a Perl-style eval
< 1296856793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :response to what?
< 1296856794 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually.
< 1296856798 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb litterer-clone-1 http://lymia.x10.bz/evil.fyb
< 1296856801 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb litterer-clone-2 http://lymia.x10.bz/evil.fyb
< 1296856802 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_litterer-clone-1: 81.2
< 1296856803 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb litterer-clone-3 http://lymia.x10.bz/evil.fyb
< 1296856805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can probably retrofit it onto more or less anything
< 1296856805 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_litterer-clone-2: 73.0
< 1296856806 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb litterer-clone-4 http://lymia.x10.bz/evil.fyb
< 1296856808 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_litterer-clone-3: 64.2
< 1296856809 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's clean out the hill.
< 1296856810 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_litterer-clone-4: 58.3
< 1296856813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, Lymia
< 1296856817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't submit multiple bots with the same source
< 1296856819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's evil
< 1296856822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides
< 1296856822 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=3
< 1296856829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll tie against themselves
< 1296856833 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1296856833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'll start getting lower scores rapidly
< 1296856837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a similar trick would work in BF Joust, too
< 1296856838 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just pushed eachother down.
< 1296856841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way the hill's calculated
< 1296856858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I'm now winning
< 1296856867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should probably treat two identical-when-expanded programs as a loss
< 1296856871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very bad loss
< 1296856872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for both of them
< 1296856892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: what's disgusting?
< 1296856898 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing~
< 1296856911 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I ought to try FYB :-)
< 1296856928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: it's your sort of thing, but has problems in practice
< 1296856948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> for both of them <--- just the newer, otherwise it'd be a really easy way to get rid of unwanted programs
< 1296856952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: FYB is like BF Joust: The Bad Early Version
< 1296856954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, indeed
< 1296856957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, people could vary it a bit
< 1296856962 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give it a go just so I can write a wiki page for it ;-)
< 1296856969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but close-but-varying programs can be good modifications
< 1296856976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: http://esolangs.org/wiki/FukYorBrane
< 1296856977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FYB's not that like BF Joust, it's just that they're both BF-based
< 1296856980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: sorry to disappoint
< 1296856982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not that wiki
< 1296856986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1296856995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not to mention, the one on Esolang could do with improvement)
< 1296856997 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, does anyone know how long it takes for a new Wikipedia page to be reviewed?
< 1296857004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: there isn't a review process
< 1296857005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other wiki with that horrible ASP.NET software?
< 1296857025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: if you've made a page about BF Joust I doubt it'll last :-P
< 1296857030 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb alicia http://lymia.x10.bz/evil.fyb
< 1296857033 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_alicia: 98.0
< 1296857041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are new page patrollers, who will either catch problems with a page within the first half hour, or approximately 4 weeks after creation just before it falls off the back of the queue
< 1296857044 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: 3 units of time, at least
< 1296857046 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296857047 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's right, on the horrible wiki :-P
< 1296857050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, it relies on people finding them at random
< 1296857061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: i just can't stand the software, nothing personal :P
< 1296857080 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1296857087 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One additional thing I might like about BF joust.
< 1296857087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb lose @[+]++++++++++++++!
< 1296857089 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_lose: 5.1
< 1296857096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why does lose keep winning?
< 1296857104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why does lose keep winning?
< 1296857104 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, self-bombers
< 1296857106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb lose @[+]++++++++++++++!
< 1296857108 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_lose: 5.1
< 1296857111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1296857114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it /is/ a self-bomber
< 1296857114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <ais523> gah, why does lose keep winning?
< 1296857115 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :290) <ais523> gah, why does lose keep winning?
< 1296857120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the most efficient one I could come up with
< 1296857120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quicker self-bombers
< 1296857124 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb real-lose [@+++++++++++++++!]
< 1296857128 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_real-lose: 5.1
< 1296857129 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Robot_Battle    <- I assumed there's a review process from the tag at the top...  I was waiting to see if it's deleted for lack of notability.
< 1296857130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do invalid instructions do in fyb?
< 1296857132 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb real-lose-2 +[@+++++++++++++++!]
< 1296857137 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_real-lose-2: 5.1
< 1296857139 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are none.
< 1296857140 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1296857140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it does lose to everything, just doesn't get no points
< 1296857144 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it wining agienst.
< 1296857158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I think that just means nobody's looking at it yet
< 1296857162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: the tags are filed into dated categories, that people look at occasionally; people have to be proactive about doing something about them
< 1296857172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you fix the problem a tag describes, you can remove it yourself
< 1296857179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: the article looks to be well-written as far as formatting, references etc. goes, so I'd say it has a good chance
< 1296857182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you think the problem's fatal, you can nominate the article for deletion
< 1296857191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems notable enough, although ofc not everybody agrees with my definition
< 1296857191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, though, articles just stay tagged indefinitely, more or less
< 1296857200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wouldn't mind an in-depth article on every Pokemon...)
< 1296857218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he wrote the page
< 1296857220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the histor
< 1296857220 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that goes on Bulbapedia.
< 1296857221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1296857221 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p
< 1296857228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: indeed, but I don't see why it shouldn't go on Wikipedia
< 1296857243 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb nothing +[]
< 1296857245 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_nothing: 1.0
< 1296857246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: (cur | prev)  22:06, 2 February 2011 OoS (talk | contribs) (1,280 bytes) (←Created page with '{{New unreviewed article|source=ArticleWizard|date={{subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}}} '''Color Robot Battle''' is an early programming game for...')
< 1296857247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bulbapedia has /multiple/ in-depth articles on some Pokémon
< 1296857248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you _added_ that tag!
< 1296857255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1296857262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. distinguishing between Pikachu in general, and Ash's Pikachu in particular
< 1296857262 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on the subject of BF Joust.
< 1296857267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you're meant to add it to your own pages
< 1296857268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha
< 1296857269 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see one thing nice about it.
< 1296857275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, it gets added by the article wizard
< 1296857280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1296857280 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott: the tag was added by the new article wizard :-)
< 1296857303 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could write an evolver for it.
< 1296857307 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win/lose is not an boolean value.
< 1296857322 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An evolver for FYB?
< 1296857326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolving bf never seems to go very well
< 1296857327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: no, BF Joust
< 1296857352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you're talking about notability within the area of Pokémon, Ash's Pikachu is obviously pretty special compared to others
< 1296857362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes sense for Bulbapedia to have multiple articles like that
< 1296857379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Pokemon itself is notable enough for the entire contents of Bulbapedia being worthy of inclusion into Wikipedia, really
< 1296857390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think too many people agree, though
< 1296857399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some would be a bit dubious
< 1296857406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK, but certainly most
< 1296857422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this and rabid inclusionists still annoy me...
< 1296857427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the whole Shipping namespace, which is full of things like carefully arranged arguments for and against Ash's Bulbasaur being in love with Dawn's Bulbasaur
< 1296857436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that /exists/?
< 1296857440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1296857442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1296857445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's brilliant. -ly terrible.
< 1296857460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notability by Bulbapedia standards is measured relative to Pokémon as a whole
< 1296857475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it goes down much lower than standards relative to the world as a whole
< 1296857519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, wow, it warns you before letting you load a page in that namespace
< 1296857547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Holding hands is often used to show attraction" who the hell wrote this page and were they above the age of 4?
< 1296857558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is the craziest thing ever.
< 1296857559 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, evolving BF wouldn't be that bad... if your goal wasn't to kill human written bots.
< 1296857560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Blushing is often used to show attraction"
< 1296857572 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we're talking about an anime.
< 1296857576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else is used to show attraction, Bulbapedia?! Your list does not appear exhaustive!
< 1296857582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's an attempt to figure out minor details of an anime from other minor details of an anime
< 1296857587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the things on that list actually happened
< 1296857588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the talk page: [[Can We take down all the Gay Shippings like palletShipping, Even with the warning, It just isn't right.--Quick Man 21:18, 14 May 2008 (UTC)]]
< 1296857601 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's my brain bleach.
< 1296857613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you didn't get your lifetime's supply when you joined the Internet?
< 1296857619 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1296857623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, not another lost shipment
< 1296857629 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used it all up with NGE.
< 1296857635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you'll have to call your ISP. in the meantime, I suggest unplugging your router/modem immediately
< 1296857646 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it fanfiction.net
< 1296857646 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wtfbbq
< 1296857704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I would ask what line you're referring to, but really, it's probably all of them
< 1296857740 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets an idea
< 1296857774 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1296857782 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tape itself has a random length from 135 to 167 elements
< 1296857783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mainly "<elliott> from the talk page: [[Can We take down all the Gay Shippings like palletShipping, Even with the warning, It just isn't right.--Quick Man 21:18, 14 May 2008 (UTC)]]", taken entirely out of context because I'm not willing to logread
< 1296857786 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see a roblem with BF joust.
< 1296857795 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: egojoust runs it with all tape lengths.
< 1296857797 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't this mean that all programs would basicly start with 135 > or < commands.
< 1296857802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: no
< 1296857805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going off the end of the tape kills you
< 1296857811 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :135 is the minimum length.
< 1296857814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: wrong
< 1296857817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: they generally set up a few obstacles first, in order to make it harder for the other program to be able to tell where the end was
< 1296857818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust
< 1296857823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you set up a fake flag, or whatever
< 1296857823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: see "The revised version"
< 1296857825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and note the egojoust section
< 1296857829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which includes my improvements
< 1296857830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the version we play
< 1296857833 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1296857836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original version was very flawed in that way
< 1296857837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the version we use here uses shorter tapes
< 1296857852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that you can either spend a long time setting up defenses, or rush to the other side to try to capture its flag before it can
< 1296857866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, the tape is every length from 10 to 30
< 1296857870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of quantum!
< 1296857882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you could actually optimise that
< 1296857884 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nondeterminism sucks :P
< 1296857887 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, wait.
< 1296857888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run the program once
< 1296857893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it goes past tape element N
< 1296857903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note in all result structs with tape length of less than N that it crashed
< 1296857904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1296857909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'd be worth the effort, possibly faster to do it the brutish way
< 1296857914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because of how the flags work
< 1296857914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1296857917 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+>->+>->+>->+>->+>-
< 1296857925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if evolving, you want really quick execution
< 1296857926 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't you start with that to set up a decent wall of defences.
< 1296857938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes, but that won't fool a lot of the programs
< 1296857938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: indeed, many programs do that sort of thing
< 1296857941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some strategies are very advanced
< 1296857945 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+>->+>->+>->+>->+>->[[-]>]
< 1296857946 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then uke.
< 1296857947 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuke*
< 1296857949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most modern programs are aware of that, and have counters
< 1296857953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that's the "obvious" strategy
< 1296857955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it, if you like
< 1296857963 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust stupid >+>->+>->+>->+>->+>->[[-]>]
< 1296857967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the best programs on the leaderboard are just improved versions of that
< 1296857969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the current highest-ranked BF Joust program: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/jix_wiggle3.bfjoust
< 1296857971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the hill
< 1296857979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are very different, like defend7
< 1296857982 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_stupid: 2.6
< 1296857984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rushpolarity is IIRC pretty crazy
< 1296857989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tripwire2 is very unconventional
< 1296857990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC
< 1296857995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_tripwire2.bfjoust
< 1296858004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS my system of calculating scores is downright inspired :P
< 1296858004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Googles Gnomeo and Juliet for much the same reason that none of Lovecraft's protagonists didn't just go home and have a cup of tea.
< 1296858010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tripwire programs are hilarious
< 1296858015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowrush is just weird: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/myndzi_slowrush.bfjoust
< 1296858024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol
< 1296858031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend7 is more unconventional than tripwire, though
< 1296858036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *just went
< 1296858039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not didn't just
< 1296858042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and defend9 is just too massively complex for its own good
< 1296858048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just went home, that is
< 1296858053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, I know.
< 1296858056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Didn't you just not go and don't gone fixin' none grammar?
< 1296858057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_defend7.bfjoust
< 1296858065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was constructing a regex for that and you RUINED it!
< 1296858071 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that programs get complicated.
< 1296858072 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v
< 1296858073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end of defend7 (past the loop) is just insane
< 1296858077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D
< 1296858084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: oh, not really
< 1296858089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: this is the result of like a month of competition
< 1296858093 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1296858096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hill's been static for a while now
< 1296858099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend7 probably has a record for a low number of loops in a successful program
< 1296858103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because almost all strategies are represented in a very good form
< 1296858110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just the one
< 1296858117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1296858130 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1296858142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get strategising!
< 1296858143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend7 is probably clearer commented, but it was IIRC autogenerated
< 1296858167 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> this is the current highest-ranked BF Joust program: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/jix_wiggle3.bfjoust // not true btw, slowrush is because my system of calculating scores is downright inspired :P
< 1296858168 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basicly, you can't afford to go more than 10 steps without checking to make sure you're not stepping off the edge.
< 1296858174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it
< 1296858180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no
< 1296858183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15   56.67   10.71  jix_wiggle3.bfjoust
< 1296858183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19   56.59    9.21  myndzi_slowrush.bfjoust
< 1296858184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i said that
< 1296858191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/now/ it's at the top
< 1296858193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no 100% reliable way to check that you're stepping off the edge
< 1296858194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because lymia's stupid is still there
< 1296858206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: proposal: if the program you submit ends up at the bottom
< 1296858211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the action is cancelled
< 1296858225 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1296858230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes there is, if you destroy the tape to make a counter
< 1296858231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, basic program types: fast rush programs that just try to clear obstacles and sink the flag as fast as possible; defense programs that try to detect the fast rush programs coming and either pin them in place, or trick them off the end of the tape; slow rush programs that are more cautious and don't fall for the defense program tricks
< 1296858235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming your opponent isn't fucking with the tape cells
< 1296858236 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I want to make a programming game involving danmaku.
< 1296858241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's a bad assumption
< 1296858244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, eys :)
< 1296858245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes
< 1296858252 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *eh*, I think the case that it's significant enough to tip the balance between two major players is rare enough (although seen right here) that it doesn't matter *shrugs*
< 1296858263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the various vibration programs are all about fucking with the tape cells, as you put it
< 1296858268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they rarely do all that well
< 1296858270 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you trick things off the end of the tape?
< 1296858274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as you put it" :D
< 1296858280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the elegant words of elliott!
< 1296858292 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, without destroying your flag.
< 1296858306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: difficultly
< 1296858309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: well, most programs move forwards until they see something nonzero, then zero it, then move on further
< 1296858318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: basically, set your flag to 0
< 1296858320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then increment it next turn
< 1296858323 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1296858324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one approach is vibration-style, where you set your flag to 0 every second cycle and hope they miss it
< 1296858325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only die if your flag is 0 for two turns
< 1296858326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this works
< 1296858332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why is that btw, ais523?)
< 1296858332 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder.
< 1296858338 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust bestEver >+[[]+]
< 1296858340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was it just so you could do vibration? :)
< 1296858342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: precisely so that strategy works
< 1296858342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*))
< 1296858343 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cirno [[-]+]
< 1296858345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm
< 1296858350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I was thinking more along the lines of defend7
< 1296858351 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_bestEver: 9.2
< 1296858356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSS
< 1296858357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it seems to have increased the strategies, but it seems like changing the law to allow the strategy :)
< 1296858357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tries to push the flag /past/ 0
< 1296858358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just weird
< 1296858362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BEST EVER
< 1296858369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was basically to make defense programs viable somehow
< 1296858375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they give multiple options for escaping from a zeroed flag
< 1296858378 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_cirno: 7.6
< 1296858382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zeroPoints <
< 1296858392 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_zeroPoints: 0.0
< 1296858397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSS
< 1296858410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: cirno will set the flag to 0 (one cycle), then check if it's 0 (one cycle)
< 1296858412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at that point die
< 1296858428 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: -20 points, not zero; that's the score
< 1296858439 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah.
< 1296858440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust magic ]
< 1296858441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I forgot how points were calculated X-P
< 1296858450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Too INSPIRED for human minds, even yours.
< 1296858455 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_magic: 12.2
< 1296858455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that law change was an attempt to increase the strategy width by making it possible to push beyond 0 or to fake a 0
< 1296858462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shitPile [>[+]]
< 1296858467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12.2!
< 1296858468 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's all wrong :P
< 1296858469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think EgoBot just ignores unmatched brackets
< 1296858469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better than bestEVer
< 1296858471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bestEver
< 1296858471 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even for shitPile
< 1296858475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: dude, we use underscores
< 1296858476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not camel-case
< 1296858480 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_shitPile: 12.2
< 1296858480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bad person
< 1296858484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FUCK YOUR UNDERSCORES
< 1296858496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least shitPile sets up a decoy, and can potentially trap an opponent doing [-]
< 1296858498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shit_pile [>+[+]+]
< 1296858522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell how much I'm trying here :P
< 1296858531 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder.
< 1296858532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust (>-)*5[](<)*5(+-)*128
< 1296858532 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_shit_pile: 5.0
< 1296858532 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
< 1296858533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo cannot factor 56657856797822194249 :(
< 1296858535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: slowest rush progam I've ever seen
< 1296858546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you've been doing that all day?
< 1296858546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poop_house (>-)*5[](<)*5(+-)*128
< 1296858550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat
< 1296858560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this base 8 case is proving even worse than base 10 :D
< 1296858562 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_poop_house: 4.1
< 1296858566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY
< 1296858567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.1
< 1296858568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY SO BAD
< 1296858569 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Egobot's BF Joust intretper publicly available?
< 1296858571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: that vibration should probably last longer than 128
< 1296858571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust multiples_of_two [++]
< 1296858573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes
< 1296858574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well i've not done it very optimally
< 1296858577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it is, although I forget where offhand
< 1296858577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all parts of egobot are
< 1296858580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Gregor for the link :P
< 1296858584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/
< 1296858590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: EgoBot thanks you for the help
< 1296858593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thinks you might mean elliott
< 1296858593 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_multiples_of_two: 8.5
< 1296858598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
< 1296858599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm down to three remaining cases: 10*1, 1* and 61*
< 1296858600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm just surprised you were so patient at it, most people would have got bored by now
< 1296858601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poop_house (>-)*5[](<)*5(+-)*4096
< 1296858606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D
< 1296858616 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust multiples-of-three [+++]
< 1296858617 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_poop_house: 4.1
< 1296858620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust multiples_of_two_plus_one +[++]
< 1296858621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YEAH
< 1296858622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.1
< 1296858622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY SO BAD
< 1296858634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 22 octal digits
< 1296858635 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott.
< 1296858636 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, it's 128 on each end
< 1296858640 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought 127 for some reason.
< 1296858641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :hurr:
< 1296858641 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_multiples_of_two_plus_one: 14.4
< 1296858642 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_multiples-of-three: 7.0
< 1296858642 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296858643 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when a program reaches it's end.
< 1296858649 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So mine just guaranteed a loss :P
< 1296858649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: I think you d ie
< 1296858650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*die
< 1296858652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does nothing forever
< 1296858660 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust do_nothing_forever
< 1296858661 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
< 1296858661 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust multiples-of-three-2 [[+++]+]
< 1296858661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1296858664 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust do_nothing_forever >
< 1296858665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just sits there; it won't fall off, but its flag is a sitting duck
< 1296858668 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_multiples-of-three-2: 7.7
< 1296858669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you can use . for a no-op
< 1296858673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that takes a cycle
< 1296858675 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyeah, forgot .
< 1296858677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why is poop house so bad?
< 1296858679 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_do_nothing_forever: 13.2
< 1296858697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far base 8: 2, 3, 5, 7, 141 (97), 161 (113), 401 (257), 661 (433), 1101 (577), 4611 (2441), 6101 (3137), 6441 (3361), 60411 (24841), 101111 (33353), 444641 (149921), 600111 (196681), 1000011 (262153), 1000111 (262217), 4411111 (1184329), 64111111 (13668937), 444444441 (76695841), 601111111 (100962889), 41111111111111111 (1166110617801289), ...
< 1296858705 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicidal [-]
< 1296858705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mostly because it doesn't even beat tripwire
< 1296858713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :(
< 1296858713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which loses to a do-nothing because it's hilarious like that
< 1296858720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but anyone who runs towards it is a stupid!
< 1296858722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tripwire is basically just trolling
< 1296858729 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hug [-]
< 1296858734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, rather, doing insane amounts of psychology
< 1296858742 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wildfire (>+)*9(>[(-)*128[-]])*20
< 1296858744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poop_house (>-)*5[](<)*5(+-)*10(>)*9[[[-]>]+]
< 1296858749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it assumes the opponent will set up decoys, and uses them in an attempt to judge the location of the enemy flag
< 1296858760 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1296858770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 10 turns of vibration won't trick the opponent off the end
< 1296858771 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try and code an evolver for BF Joust.
< 1296858774 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How idiotic am I?
< 1296858775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurry up, poop_house!
< 1296858779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but it will slow them down, maybe!
< 1296858786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: stop talking about wanting to do it and do it :)
< 1296858788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: probably not massively idiotic; I've had thoughts along those lines myself
< 1296858790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use egojoust for the purpose, most likely
< 1296858791 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurry up Wildfire!
< 1296858791 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_poop_house: 9.9
< 1296858791 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_hug: 8.6
< 1296858792 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_suicidal: 8.6
< 1296858792 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_wildfire: 22.3
< 1296858794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.9
< 1296858795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YEAH
< 1296858797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST PROGRAM
< 1296858798 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well.
< 1296858799 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_hope_you_subtract +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
< 1296858799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEATS EVEN SUICIDAL AND HUG
< 1296858806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I think you're the only person working today who's actually trying
< 1296858810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that would work better with RLE
< 1296858810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1296858811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried
< 1296858813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just really bad
< 1296858817 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_i_hope_you_subtract: 12.0
< 1296858820 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to figure out how to do loops.
< 1296858823 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of doing this.
< 1296858827 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Treat loops as semi-opcodes.
< 1296858841 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their contents are mutated the same as the program as a whoel.
< 1296858842 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whole*
< 1296858843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it like FYB and just ignore unmatched [ and ]
< 1296858865 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does EgoBot do that?
< 1296858882 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wildfire >(>+++>---)*4(>[(-)*128[-]])*20
< 1296858882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to evolve it with no structure is likely to cause MADNESS.
< 1296858892 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_wildfire: 13.9
< 1296858893 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I do expect to get better results from keeping loops intact though.
< 1296858894 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyeah, I forgot about RLE :P
< 1296858903 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_hope_you_add -*127
< 1296858909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parens on *
< 1296858912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (-)*127
< 1296858916 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1296858918 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_i_hope_you_add: 12.4
< 1296858920 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_hope_you_add (-)*127
< 1296858921 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust slow-suicide (>)*31
< 1296858935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you probably didn't remember that rule when you wrote egojoust, so without the parens likely works just fine
< 1296858943 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_slow-suicide: 0.0
< 1296858943 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_i_hope_you_add: 12.8
< 1296858943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do it without keeping loops balanced, it'll be amusing
< 1296858965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poop_cauldron ((+)*3(-)*3)*127
< 1296858979 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with your vulgar names?
< 1296858982 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_poop_cauldron: 15.9
< 1296858984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: put the repeat count up to 100000 or so if you're writing a program like that
< 1296858989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: "poop" is vulgar?
< 1296858991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: elliott uses swear words as metasyntactic variables
< 1296858992 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1296858993 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p
< 1296858993 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_hope_you_FAIL [(-)*127(+)*254(-)*127]
< 1296859006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I woke up in a strange new world where "poop" is a swear word.
< 1296859010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You're so... poop."
< 1296859016 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust idiotic (((++)*256)*256)*256
< 1296859024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's vaguely how defend7 works, except it lets the opponent do the (+)*254 and kills the opposing flag meanwhile
< 1296859024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15.9, not bad!
< 1296859028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're putting bad programs on the hill
< 1296859031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then battling them against each other
< 1296859034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the good programs are going to die out
< 1296859044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1296859046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, because the good programs will beat the bad ones easily
< 1296859052 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I crash Egobot?
< 1296859053 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v
< 1296859059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's just busy
< 1296859061 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_idiotic: 11.6
< 1296859061 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_i_hope_you_FAIL: 11.3
< 1296859076 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust idiotic02 ((((((++)*256)*256)*256)*256)*256)*256
< 1296859080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're getting close to toppling vibration2
< 1296859090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think vibration is actually a viable strategy
< 1296859097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it counts as a bad program too
< 1296859114 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_idiotic02: 12.7
< 1296859116 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does vibration do?
< 1296859124 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust in_my_mind_this_makes_sense >(+)*127[[>+<-]>]
< 1296859133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what's vibration?
< 1296859134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically sets the counter to 0 every other turn, in the hope the opponent will miss it altogether
< 1296859139 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_in_my_mind_this_makes_sense: 10.5
< 1296859146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, it's my reddit birthday
< 1296859148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty flawed strategy, as it's too liable to being killed by mistake
< 1296859151 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust insanely-large-number (+)*100000000000000
< 1296859153 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wildfire (>-)*9(>[+++[-[-[--[-[-[[(-)*125[-]]]]]]]]])*20
< 1296859160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, i've been wasting my time for four years
< 1296859200 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1296859202 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_insanely-large-number: 12.3
< 1296859202 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_wildfire: 26.9
< 1296859203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steals elliott's cake
< 1296859204 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ajfrabbitz
< 1296859206 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does insanely-large-nuber count as malicious intent.
< 1296859207 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALso.
< 1296859209 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it win at all.
< 1296859213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: that (-)*125 looks a little suspicious
< 1296859218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it'll beat tripwire
< 1296859227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tripwire is famous for beating good programs and losing for jokes
< 1296859232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo
< 1296859234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got 0.0
< 1296859248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, because it assumes that the first thing it encounters can't possibly be the real flag because no successful program wouldn't use decoys, but a decoy
< 1296859252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just rushes after that
< 1296859257 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wipe_your_mouth_out_with_soup (>)*10((-)*127>)*20
< 1296859262 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if that succeeds, it fails.
< 1296859265 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_wipe_your_mouth_out_with_soup: 0.0
< 1296859273 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow
< 1296859275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1296859278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was better at getting 0.0
< 1296859283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> !bfjoust spotless_interior (->)*7(<(+)*10<(-)*10)*7
< 1296859283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<EgoBot> Score for elliott_spotless_interior: 0.0
< 1296859286 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think *125 is right... before that it adds 3 then subtracts 6
< 1296859290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought that strategy might actually work, kinda)
< 1296859299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: change it from 20 > to 19 >
< 1296859307 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wipe_your_mouth_out_with_soup (>)*10((-)*127.>)*19
< 1296859316 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_wipe_your_mouth_out_with_soup: 0.0
< 1296859321 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't give it a moment to succeed, so if I zero'd the flag, I'd walk off the end anyway :P
< 1296859323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: but say if the opponent used +4 as an obstacle, you'd go and set the value all the way to -128, then all the way up to +0 again
< 1296859331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first at full speed, then at half speed
< 1296859334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust spotless_interior (->)*7(<+<-)*3<(+-)*128
< 1296859337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose that's no worse than what many other langs do
< 1296859348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: langs?
< 1296859348 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_spotless_interior: 3.7
< 1296859352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, programs
< 1296859352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.7
< 1296859353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YEAH
< 1296859355 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i-would-rather-die-by-my-own-hand (-)*128<
< 1296859363 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_i-would-rather-die-by-my-own-hand: 7.9
< 1296859369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that probably /still/ beats tripwire
< 1296859373 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wash_your_mouth_out_with_soup (>)*10((-)*128.>)*19
< 1296859382 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_wash_your_mouth_out_with_soup: 0.1
< 1296859386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
< 1296859404 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won against defend7 :P
< 1296859412 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lesswild (>-)*9(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*20
< 1296859420 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_lesswild: 27.0
< 1296859424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust and_i_will_bring_you_with_me_on_our_fiery_path_to_the_demolishment_of_terms (>->+)*4(<)*8[(-)*128]
< 1296859440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i overflowed its name buffer
< 1296859440 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_and_i_will_bring_you_with_me_on_our_fiery_path_to_the_demolishment_of_terms: 0.3
< 1296859442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOO
< 1296859442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.3
< 1296859447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLS YEAH
< 1296859467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for me to go home, anyway
< 1296859476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get some work done; and it may even be esolang-related
< 1296859489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296859490 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wilddecoy >----------(>)*8(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*20
< 1296859495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust jello >+[<(-+)*100>+]
< 1296859499 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust !bfjoust cirno (>->+)*10([-]>)*100
< 1296859501 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1296859509 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cirno (>->+)*10([-]>)*100
< 1296859515 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_wilddecoy: 35.1
< 1296859515 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_jello: 5.8
< 1296859516 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia__bfjoust: 0.1
< 1296859519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1296859527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic is actually doing well and we are being terrible
< 1296859527 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_cirno: 0.0
< 1296859531 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_bfjoust is a pretty good name.
< 1296859557 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tripwire-will-lose ([-]>)*100
< 1296859557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust (->)*4<-(-{>+}[+>-<->>])%4[-(+)*3]
< 1296859558 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
< 1296859566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust accidental_stare_into_pit_over_void (->)*4<-(-{>+}[+>-<->>])%4[-(+)*3]
< 1296859571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: underscores, dammit!
< 1296859573 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_tripwire-will-lose: 9.0
< 1296859584 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's wrong with dashes?
< 1296859585 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_accidental_stare_into_pit_over_void: 3.2
< 1296859587 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296859595 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust NO_U +
< 1296859597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: because it turns into "Lymia_foo-bar-baz" which is ugly :P
< 1296859598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.2
< 1296859599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad
< 1296859600 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1296859603 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::V
< 1296859608 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_NO_U: 11.4
< 1296859611 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol'
< 1296859622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1296859636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poop_emporium .
< 1296859651 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_poop_emporium: 10.4
< 1296859659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YEAH
< 1296859664 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust secret_instant_win_op *
< 1296859677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PUT A BACKDOOR INTO EGOJOUST
< 1296859681 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_secret_instant_win_op: 9.6
< 1296859683 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ../../../../../../../../../etc/passwd .
< 1296859684 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*10>(+)*10(>)*7(>[++++++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[-[[(-)*121[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*20
< 1296859689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poop_shopping_centre ((.{.}.)%74)*9
< 1296859703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexyghoul? your naming convention is rather arbitrary :D
< 1296859716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tits (.)(.)
< 1296859721 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 30.1
< 1296859721 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_poop_shopping_centre: 8.0
< 1296859721 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia____________________________etc_passwd: 8.0
< 1296859724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.0
< 1296859725 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_tits: 0.0
< 1296859726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8. FUCKING 0
< 1296859728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID THAT EVEN HAPPEN
< 1296859730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WAS A BUNCH OF NOPS
< 1296859733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW
< 1296859743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to report.txt :P
< 1296859748 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tripwire
< 1296859752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt
< 1296859789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude...
< 1296859792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have totally shitted up the hill.
< 1296859811 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1296859817 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ruh_roh .
< 1296859819 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 |  -  +  +  +  +  +  -  -  0low.bfjoust
< 1296859821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poop_box (.)*999999999999999999
< 1296859823 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck happened here.
< 1296859830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: wat
< 1296859844 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>)*7(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*20[-]
< 1296859844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was probably running two instances at once and got screwy :P
< 1296859850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe bfjoust sucks as a game
< 1296859854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1296859863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust poop_encapsulating_object_oriented_dynamism_to_leverage_synergy (.)*18446744073709551617
< 1296859877 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust d_oh >*10[[]>][[]>][[-]>]
< 1296859897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a system where you write a bot to play nethack, and see who can write the best said bot :P
< 1296859904 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, in Brainfuck.
< 1296859913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, no.
< 1296859916 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tape contains your field of vision.
< 1296859921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck is overused.
< 1296859922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> I should make a system where you write a bot to play nethack, and see who can write the best said bot :P
< 1296859923 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. makes you output a character to input.
< 1296859924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: TAEB would win :P
< 1296859927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAEB would win forever.
< 1296859931 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_d_oh: 6.7
< 1296859931 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_ruh_roh: 6.7
< 1296859932 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_poop_encapsulating_object_oriented_dynamism_to_leverage_synergy: 6.7
< 1296859932 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_poop_box: 6.7
< 1296859932 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 46.4
< 1296859938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.7
< 1296859946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.7 for the poop-encapsulating object-oriented dynamism to leverage synergy
< 1296859952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION falls in love with object-oriented poop
< 1296859994 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to hold up and let the hill settle with less people on it :P
< 1296860000 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just let impomatic add something.
< 1296860007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: add GENIOSITY
< 1296860013 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hello_world >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
< 1296860022 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, y'know, not :P
< 1296860039 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_hello_world: 4.1
< 1296860042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1296860048 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, something be broken :P
< 1296860049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust I win!
< 1296860057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, it's just competing against really bad programs.
< 1296860059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of really bad programs.
< 1296860060 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear :P
< 1296860060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR
< 1296860063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's actually a good strategy
< 1296860069 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, the hill is supposed to clean itself out.
< 1296860069 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, make the bot output the tape for each round.
< 1296860072 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it's not.
< 1296860078 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_I: 6.1
< 1296860080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ISTR you increased its size.
< 1296860083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what, EgoBot?
< 1296860086 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we can output messages into the thing.
< 1296860086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1296860090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen I win!
< 1296860098 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt Observe the lunacy
< 1296860099 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :83 ++++++++++[>+++++++>+>+++>++++++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>>++.>-.--------------.+++++.<+.<. [548]
< 1296860108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IIRC the tape is 15 long or something
< 1296860114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hill
< 1296860117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Err, the report is cut off.
< 1296860123 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, observe the lunacy :P
< 1296860126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_win ++++++++++[>+++++++>+>+++>++++++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>>++.>-.--------------.+++++.<+.<.
< 1296860137 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_i_win: 1.5
< 1296860139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Delete all the retarded-ass programs and start again :P
< 1296860147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: poop_shopping_centre downwards on that report.
< 1296860150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest can stay.
< 1296860157 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it's SUPPOSED to do already.
< 1296860162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do it manually first :P
< 1296860283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if... hmm
< 1296860317 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust likely_blond >->+>----->+++++>---->++++>--->+++>-->++(+++[-]..>---[+]..>)*50
< 1296860334 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_likely_blond: 33.5
< 1296860361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1296860386 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust likely_blond >->+>----->+++++>---->++++>--->+++>-->++(+[-].+>-[+].->)*50
< 1296860391 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what this will do.
< 1296860391 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v
< 1296860393 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_likely_blond: 32.5
< 1296860401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.computer.org/portal/web/buildyourcareer/news/-/blogs/php-tops-list-of-hot-job-categories?_33_redirect=/portal/web/buildyourcareer/news
< 1296860401 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse, it seems.
< 1296860404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... please...
< 1296860420 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get to making an evolver I guess.
< 1296860420 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::s
< 1296860423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must be an overexaggeration.
< 1296860427 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now that I think about it.
< 1296860431 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you score an evolver.
< 1296860439 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The early ones are likely to kill themselves.
< 1296860439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: By using egojoust's resulting score.
< 1296860448 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At fir--
< 1296860449 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right.
< 1296860463 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1296860471 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think making it generate ()*bluh ops would be an bad idea?
< 1296860485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Might be a good idea.
< 1296860495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_hope_i_fixed_it .
< 1296860495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh
< 1296860500 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_i_hope_i_fixed_it: 5.1
< 1296860506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to install Microsoft Visio and Microsoft Project for class
< 1296860511 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better :P
< 1296860539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust crap (.)*999
< 1296860543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust crap9 (.)*9999
< 1296860545 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_crap: 5.1
< 1296860549 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_crap9: 4.7
< 1296860554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :999 IS BETTER
< 1296860559 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah.
< 1296860560 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMMA KILL U
< 1296860562 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have it figured out.
< 1296860566 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One major thing I'm wondering about though.
< 1296860582 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you crossover the contents of loops between bots.
< 1296860587 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pick random loops, and cross them over?
< 1296860592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: You could just hill-climb, rather than actually being genetic.
< 1296860598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF doesn't really have a good concept of genes.
< 1296860603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because code is very context-dependent.
< 1296860606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So breeding is very difficult.
< 1296860617 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1296860626 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just mutate with no crossing over?
< 1296860646 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could work, I guess.
< 1296860660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: As long as you DON'T call it genetic :P
< 1296860665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hill-climbing.
< 1296860672 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's still OK to call it "evolutionary programming" :P )
< 1296860676 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Crossing over would work better in FYB, with :; I guess)
< 1296860679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, yeah.
< 1296860685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not genetic programming or genetic algorithms or anything :P
< 1296860706 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.
< 1296860722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXAMPLE 3 In this example, the size of a variable length array is computed and returned from a
< 1296860722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function:
< 1296860722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include <stddef.h>
< 1296860722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t fsize3(int n)
< 1296860722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1296860724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char b[n+3]; // variable length array
< 1296860726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return sizeof b; // execution time sizeof
< 1296860727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1296860730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS THAT VALID
< 1296860732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What, those }s and {s are the right way around in the standard.)
< 1296860765 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, C99 supports that.
< 1296860773 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1296860777 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The [n+3] thing, not the }{
< 1296860778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1296860780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the C99 standard
< 1296860782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stil
< 1296860784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can you sizeof that :D
< 1296860785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still
< 1296860788 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dunno.
< 1296860793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit evil
< 1296860802 0 :Ajfrabbitz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke*
< 1296860804 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess an array could be something like this.
< 1296860809 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[length][contents]
< 1296860817 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the returned pointer is in between them.
< 1296860825 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296860826 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>-)*6(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*20[-]
< 1296860829 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 33.0
< 1296860849 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*20[-]
< 1296860854 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 33.7
< 1296860864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the sexiest ghoul that's a computer program and not a ghoul!
< 1296860870 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>)*6(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*20[-]
< 1296860871 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so.
< 1296860874 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 31.3
< 1296860878 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For basic mutations, I'm thinking something like this.
< 1296860917 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modify instruction, encase in loop, encase in repeat, duplicate (creates two copies which can be modified independently), deencase, delete instruction, add instruction.
< 1296860930 0 :Cheery!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1296860950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296860961 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well.
< 1296860963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Sure. Can delete instruction delete a [ or ]?
< 1296860965 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough thinking about it, and more coding time.
< 1296860971 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, [] counts as one instruction, I guess.
< 1296860980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1296860982 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually.
< 1296860987 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do we need deencase.
< 1296860990 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it tries to delete a loop.
< 1296860992 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It removes the loop.
< 1296860992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't.
< 1296860995 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not the contents.
< 1296861000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Nor do you need encase.
< 1296861012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc -> insert [ -> a[b]c (] is added automatically) -> move a -> [ab]c
< 1296861020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you just need a "move instruction forwards/backwards".
< 1296861028 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1296861029 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*21[-]
< 1296861031 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the intrepter do that?
< 1296861034 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 36.9
< 1296861051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah BEST IDEA EVER: Metabfjoust: Submit a program that writes a bfjoust program, with all the other bfjoust programs on the last hill as input.
< 1296861058 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I fail at spelling today^H^H^H^H^H)
< 1296861059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D
< 1296861065 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, MetaFYB.
< 1296861067 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it.
< 1296861077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're FYB programs that output BF Joust programs.
< 1296861078 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, you know what I would submit for it)
< 1296861094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, hmm?
< 1296861105 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, while trying to kill eachother.
< 1296861113 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*21[-]
< 1296861117 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 36.6
< 1296861130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Remember, all the other "programs" are actually programs to write the programs, and you only get the last program they wrote as input.
< 1296861145 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]]---)*21[-]
< 1296861147 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hmm...
< 1296861151 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 34.3
< 1296861151 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language would this be written in?
< 1296861159 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Idonno, C? :P
< 1296861165 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the program writers.
< 1296861165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JAVA
< 1296861169 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*21[-]
< 1296861170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Brainfuck. DUH
< 1296861172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or...
< 1296861173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ... yes, C.
< 1296861173 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 36.9
< 1296861175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL.
< 1296861176 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah.
< 1296861178 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1296861179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL OUTPUTTING BRAINFUCK
< 1296861184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nonono
< 1296861186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They have to be IRC-sized
< 1296861187 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's to stop you from making an evolutional sim.
< 1296861189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck is clearly the superior choice.
< 1296861192 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hm, fair point.
< 1296861196 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Nothing.
< 1296861199 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll stick to 36.9 for today :-)
< 1296861200 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1296861203 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take all programs as input.
< 1296861209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Instead of having a . instruction, have instructions to output all the valid things.
< 1296861211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1296861214 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make an internal hill, and evolve them with eachother.
< 1296861222 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And output the top of that hill.
< 1296861223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+
< 1296861225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.-
< 1296861227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1296861228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.<
< 1296861232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.> .[ .]
< 1296861234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.( .) .% .*
< 1296861242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., . is a compound instruction taking the instruction to output.
< 1296861248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would avoid hideously complex "text generation" :P
< 1296861261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain axplote*
< 1296861261 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MetaMetaBFJoust
< 1296861271 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make programs that write programs that write BF Joust programs.
< 1296861285 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or. Better idea.
< 1296861293 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYBJoust
< 1296861299 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must write a program that's a polygot of both.
< 1296861312 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ... actually not a bad idea.
< 1296861348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a terrible idea :P
< 1296861355 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dead [-
< 1296861359 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Lymia_dead: 5.1
< 1296861361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meta^NBFJoust
< 1296861364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes N as an input.
< 1296861378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If N=0, it must act as a BF Joust program after reading that.
< 1296861387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If N=1, it must write a BF Joust program, given the current BF Joust hill as input.
< 1296861396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meta^NBFJoust = every time the hill is run, it's one level of meta further :P
< 1296861415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If N=2, it must write a program that (writes a BF Joust program, given the current BF Joust hill as input), given the current MetaBFJoust hill as input.
< 1296861418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on, so forth.
< 1296861420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is N decided?
< 1296861423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple!
< 1296861428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs N=0 to N=64 on all programs.
< 1296861433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1296861441 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::@+[joust code]*;fyb code
< 1296861442 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1296861449 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYBJoust wouldn't be hard.
< 1296861449 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v
< 1296861452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then pits the resulting BF Joust programs against the BF Joust hill, picks the top one,
< 1296861454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adds it to the hill.
< 1296861454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEHA
< 1296861457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*YEAH
< 1296861481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Implemented it yet?
< 1296861488 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, super-quines.
< 1296861488 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::v
< 1296861521 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm slightly happier with the Meta^1BFJoust idea :P
< 1296861537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, fine. Meta^\inftyBFJoust.
< 1296861546 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now that's just silly.
< 1296861561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Brainfuck programs must output programs that output programs that ... , given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill, given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill, given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill, given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill, given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill.
< 1296861568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*...,
< 1296861574 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!supermetabfjoust i_will_solve_the_motherfucking_halting_problem ...
< 1296861607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1296861616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Gregor: Brainfuck programs must output programs that output programs that ... , given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill, given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill, given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill, given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill, given the current Meta^\inftyBFJoust hill.
< 1296861618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME ON THIS IS THE BEST IDEA
< 1296861631 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make MetaBFJoust, will anybody actually play? It's actually not the worst idea ever :P
< 1296861651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll play Meta^\inftyBFJoust. :p
< 1296861656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MetaBFJoust, MAYBE.
< 1296861672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Make the programs be Scheme programs... Why? Because:
< 1296861679 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1296861683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (1) They can just output lists, basically, so it's easy for them to handle nesting, and for you to avoid getting invalid programs,
< 1296861696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (2) "Easy" enough to sandbox, I think there are implementations designed for it, maybe Elk Scheme,
< 1296861698 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, sure.
< 1296861701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (3) C is a fucking pain.
< 1296861707 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh
< 1296861717 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to learn Scheme then.
< 1296861717 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D=
< 1296861719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Having to malloc when you're busy trying to write a program-writing program = lame :P
< 1296861720 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing to consider other host languages, but not Scheme :P
< 1296861729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Got any better ideas? :p
< 1296861737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JAVASCRIPT
< 1296861738 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java?
< 1296861741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No.
< 1296861741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why not Scheme?
< 1296861743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ... gtfo.
< 1296861745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtfo and die.
< 1296861746 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :(
< 1296861749 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does so
< 1296861750 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now dead
< 1296861752 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The number one problem with Scheme is that it's Scheme.
< 1296861772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor hates languages with parentheses because they obsolete his job as a language-designer. :}
< 1296861804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha I can feel his anger
< 1296861807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His fury, his hatred
< 1296861814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transmitted through his silence
< 1296861816 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, make it take Perl programs.
< 1296861823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ...you are the worst.
< 1296861823 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we can fit it on IRC.
< 1296861823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just make it anything #!/usr/bin/envable
< 1296861828 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And install tcc
< 1296861837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/cat
< 1296861839 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what.
< 1296861841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(insert really good bf joust program)
< 1296861843 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being practical.
< 1296861845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: You've suggested
< 1296861846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Java
< 1296861847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) Perl
< 1296861854 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is easy to fit on IRC!
< 1296861856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That'd be step-one, yeah
< 1296861859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SAID FUCKING JAVA
< 1296861859 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is easy to sandbox!
< 1296861862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO IT'S NOT
< 1296861868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT HAS JUST AS MUCH ACCESS AS ANY LANGUAGE
< 1296861871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE BAD
< 1296861872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD PERSON
< 1296861873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD
< 1296861876 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the SecurityManager mechenism.
< 1296861878 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::V
< 1296861883 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides from elliott 
< 1296861888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1296861894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Seriously, let's just kill this guy.
< 1296861904 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *killed*
< 1296861906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am willing to put our language differences aside to unite against people who like Java in any way at all.
< 1296861914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl, I scared him away :P
< 1296861925 0 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296861927 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it safe now?
< 1296861941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1296861944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rarely
< 1296861946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE KNIFE
< 1296861957 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just agree on LLVM bytecodes <trollface>
< 1296861959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, Newspeak should be sandboxable. In practice, it's not there yet.
< 1296861968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1296861972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: x86 asm
< 1296861975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it all x86 asm
< 1296861978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hardc0r3
< 1296861979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, shutup's dead
< 1296861981 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ITYM machine code
< 1296861982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is updog.
< 1296861989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a crazy, crazy coincidence.
< 1296862003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish. It's machine code.
< 1296862004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly think the #1 problem with MetaBFJoust is we could never ever agree on the host language :P
< 1296862005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :</oblig.>
< 1296862022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hackiki-style seems like the best idea to me. Just install Scheme 48. :p
< 1296862024 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, make it anything with a shebang or a native ELF executable.
< 1296862027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do it in HackEgo.
< 1296862030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we can install our own languages.
< 1296862033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ELF executable? Naw.
< 1296862034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it run Parrot VM bytecode, so we could chose the language
< 1296862038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can even do C, like:
< 1296862041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh
< 1296862052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -x c $(tail -n +3 $0) -o foo
< 1296862054 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, shebang is good I think.
< 1296862055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec ./foo
< 1296862057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...c code here...
< 1296862058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever.
< 1296862063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't we fail to get Factor running on HackEgo?
< 1296862066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'll make a rungcc now to do that in HackEgo.
< 1296862069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Srsly, do it in HackEgo :P
< 1296862075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moar flexible.
< 1296862085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run pwd
< 1296862090 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.9639
< 1296862093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is ./bin always in PATH?
< 1296862095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure *shrugs*
< 1296862103 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $PATH
< 1296862103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. will "#!/usr/bin/env foo" run bin/foo?
< 1296862104 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.9681/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
< 1296862108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rite.
< 1296862113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lawl @ python there)
< 1296862120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOUR FAULT
< 1296862124 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh
< 1296862128 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*insert shar stuff here*
< 1296862133 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java -jar killmenow.jar
< 1296862134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why do you prefer Mercurial?
< 1296862152 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how do you make sure that the program only accesses the BF Joust hill.
< 1296862155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Link me to the !c interpreter thing?
< 1296862157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In HackEgo.
< 1296862159 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because git is terrible.
< 1296862161 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And dosn't, say, use /etc/passwd as input.
< 1296862166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how so?
< 1296862168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: What?
< 1296862198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Its design and user interface are needlessly complicated.
< 1296862200 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you make sure that the MetaBFJoust program dosn't take things it's not supposed to as input.
< 1296862213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: git's design is actually stupidly over-simple.
< 1296862218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I'm not using Git direcctly. I found a nice GUI
< 1296862221 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, are the programs allowed to store persistant state, or do they only take the hill programs as input.
< 1296862223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (About as stupidly-simple as Mercurial's)
< 1296862231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD FEKKING LORD TOO MUCH STUFF
< 1296862251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/rungcc; echo 'name=$(mktemp)' >>bin/rungcc; echo 'gcc -x c -O2 -std=gnu99 "$(tail -n +1 "$0")" -o "$name"' >>bin/rungcc
< 1296862253 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't mean the repository design, I mean the design behind how the command is used. I guess that's UI, but eh :P
< 1296862258 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also.
< 1296862259 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.16/20101130074636]
< 1296862259 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862263 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then you don't like git, you like that UI.
< 1296862269 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: They could store persistent state.
< 1296862280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'shift' >> bin/rungcc
< 1296862282 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ok, but I have no reason to hate it. Your only reason so far is bad UI
< 1296862286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No persistent state, dude :P
< 1296862290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That leaves BF out.
< 1296862305 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That doesn't leave BF out, it just doesn't help BF :P
< 1296862306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'exec "$name" "$@"; st=$?' >>bin/rungcc
< 1296862307 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862308 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could store the tape as persistant state.
< 1296862319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'rm -f "$name" 2>/dev/null' >>bin/rungcc
< 1296862321 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: *persistent
< 1296862328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suggest no persistent state :P
< 1296862333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'exit $?' >>bin/rungcc
< 1296862334 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296862334 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/rungcc
< 1296862337 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/rungcc
< 1296862343 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo hi > /etc/passwd
< 1296862344 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lurn2exec
< 1296862345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/rungcc
< 1296862347 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oops :P
< 1296862359 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /etc/passwd
< 1296862360 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/exec //' bin/rungcc
< 1296862361 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: ITT: permissions
< 1296862371 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1296862384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '#!/usr/bin/env rungcc' >test; echo 'int main() { return 42; }' >>test
< 1296862385 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x test
< 1296862388 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./test
< 1296862394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C'MON DUDE
< 1296862395 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $USER
< 1296862396 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'RE ALL COUNTING ON YOU
< 1296862398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./test; echo $?
< 1296862399 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862400 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1296862401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1296862403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1296862404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1296862406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aahahaha
< 1296862407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fail
< 1296862408 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run env >> env
< 1296862409 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862411 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url env
< 1296862412 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/env
< 1296862414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/exit $?/exit $st/' bin/rungcc
< 1296862416 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./test; echo $?
< 1296862421 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :127
< 1296862426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::what:
< 1296862435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol
< 1296862436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok edit time
< 1296862443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unwilling to read all this shit :P
< 1296862445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./test 2>&1; echo $?
< 1296862446 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/gcc: /usr/lib/plash/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by /usr/bin/gcc) \ /tmp/tmp.GVNllRRSA1: error while loading shared libraries: /tmp/tmp.GVNllRRSA1: file too short \ 127
< 1296862448 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO MUCH STUFF
< 1296862448 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run UNDO=rm -rf /*
< 1296862449 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT
< 1296862451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE
< 1296862451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK
< 1296862453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that
< 1296862456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: what
< 1296862463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"file too short" xD
< 1296862468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run gcc
< 1296862469 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run gcc 2>&1
< 1296862471 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/gcc: /usr/lib/plash/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by /usr/bin/gcc)
< 1296862476 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf /home/hackbot/*
< 1296862476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, gcc is broken.
< 1296862477 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862505 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf /tmp/* > bluhbluh
< 1296862509 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bluhbluh
< 1296862515 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, if you work, then switch over to a different branch or commit in Hg, but working space isn't clean, does Hg warn you?
< 1296862517 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bluhbluh
< 1296862520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Git doesn't seem to
< 1296862550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/OfHY
< 1296862553 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-02-04 23:54:07 URL:http://sprunge.us/OfHY [153] -> "OfHY" [1]
< 1296862558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv OfHY bin/rungcc; chmod +x bin/rungcc
< 1296862559 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./test
< 1296862564 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ./test 2>&1
< 1296862567 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/gcc: /usr/lib/plash/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by /usr/bin/gcc)
< 1296862569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: plz 2 be fixing gcc
< 1296862593 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ps aux > ps
< 1296862595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1296862596 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url ps
< 1296862598 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/ps
< 1296862608 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296862609 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1296862611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck are you doing, Lymia?
< 1296862618 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing.
< 1296862620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck are you doing, Gregor :P
< 1296862623 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296862629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIKE HOW APACHE IS ON THAT LIST
< 1296862631 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking down HackEgo for a tick
< 1296862635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why :P
< 1296862638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To fix gcc?
< 1296862642 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1296862648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0        30204  0.0  3.6 116792 38144 ?        S    Jan28   0:01 spamd child
< 1296862649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREGOR IS SPAMMER
< 1296862665 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run wget whatismyip.org -O - > ip
< 1296862669 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url ip
< 1296862677 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1296862678 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1296862693 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@86.241.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296862737 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a 403 forbidden when I try to access the bfjoust report :-(
< 1296862739 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000      8147  0.0  0.1  45960  1440 ?        S    23:13   0:00 su - egobot
< 1296862739 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1296862749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGOBOT RUNS AS ROOT OBVS
< 1296862778 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1296862779 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>[++++++[-[-[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*21[-]
< 1296862782 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Gregor have spamd.
< 1296862804 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 36.9
< 1296862806 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>[+[+[+[+[+[+[(-)*7[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*122[-]]]]]]]]]]]]]])*21[-]
< 1296862814 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 37.4
< 1296862839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it's an anti-spam daemon stoopid
< 1296862850 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just googled it.
< 1296862850 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p
< 1296862866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's spam-ass-ass-in
< 1296862923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ass in, ass out.
< 1296863180 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nationformarriage.org/atf/cf/%7B39D8B5C1-F9FE-48C0-ABE6-1029BA77854C%7D/JewishEnglish.pdf LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. "Why Marriage Matters: SEVEN SCIENTIFIC REASONS". First words under that header? "In Jewish tradition,"
< 1296863188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you're well on your way to a scientific reason now :P
< 1296863205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT AS A JEW
< 1296863236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1296863236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“How will my same-sex marriage hurt your marriage?”  Same-sex marriage advocates
< 1296863236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to force everyone to dramatically and permanently alter our definition of marriage
< 1296863236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and family.]]
< 1296863238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What X-D
< 1296863262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1296863262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Is same-sex marriage like interracial marriage?”  Laws against interracial marriage were about keeping
< 1296863262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two races apart, so that one race could oppress the other, and that is wrong. Marriage is about bringing male
< 1296863262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and female together, so that children have mothers and  fathers, and so that women aren’t stuck with the
< 1296863263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enormous, unfair burdens of parenting alone--- and that is good.]]
< 1296863265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????????????/
< 1296863267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor this makes less than no sense.
< 1296863281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[“Is polygamy next?” Jonathan Yarbrough, part of the  first  couple to get a same-sex marriage in
< 1296863281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Provincetown, Mass, said, “I think it’s possible to love more than one person and have more than one
< 1296863281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partner. . . . In our case, it is. We have an open marriage.” Once you rip a ship off its mooring who knows
< 1296863281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it will drift next?]]
< 1296863282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...your point?
< 1296863285 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOM is so good :P
< 1296863303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was the stupidest.
< 1296863304 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is something wrong with http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt ?  "Forbidden - You don't have permission to access /eso/bfjoust/report.txt on this server."
< 1296863320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1296863321 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296863323 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296863341 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Because I broke egobot instead of hackego LOL
< 1296863373 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Fixt
< 1296863391 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks :-)
< 1296863391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, remember when Gregor was incompetent
< 1296863393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME TOO
< 1296863396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> Fuck you.
< 1296863411 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall seeing something to that effect in a FYB source file.
< 1296863429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, calling Gregor incompetent? :P
< 1296863449 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> Fuck you
< 1296863456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfff, sources I wrote six years ago :P
< 1296863608 0 :cheater00!~cheater@g230231145.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296863637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FIXED GCC YET
< 1296863654 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1296863671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think C99 has a few bad things
< 1296863692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Be patient, I have to reinit the chroot.
< 1296863705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was joke.
< 1296863710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, NetHack's colours suck on a light background.
< 1296863723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think C should have complex numbers.
< 1296863756 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not?
< 1296863800 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1296863842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is something which does not belong in C.
< 1296863867 0 :Lymia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't harming anything if you ask me.
< 1296863895 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>([+)*6[(-)*7([-)*5[(-)*122[-(])*14)*21[-]
< 1296863899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Lymia> [expecting coherent, logical reasons from zzo38]
< 1296863906 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 37.4
< 1296863943 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>([+)*6[(-)*7([-)*5[(-)*122[-(])*14(-)*9)*21[-]
< 1296863948 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 35.4
< 1296863991 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>([+)*6[(-)*7([-)*5[(-)*122[-(])*14)*21[-]