< 1297382406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THE FAIL IS SO STRONG. < 1297382443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ANY LUCK < 1297382448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think i'd like to see the code for y, too < 1297382464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm are you sure, it _may_ scare you; shall i just show the relevant lines? < 1297382469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how the bug can be in what you showed me < 1297382472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1297382477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (minX,minY) = minCoords (fungeSpace st) < 1297382479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (maxX,maxY) = maxCoords (fungeSpace st) < 1297382479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pushVec (maxX-minX,maxY-minY) < 1297382479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pushVec (minX,minY) < 1297382480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but < 1297382484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when i recalculated bounds the really slow way < 1297382496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i.e. whenever we're at an extremity in either x or y, recalculate them from every key in the map from scratch < 1297382501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that y code worked just fine < 1297382505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i've changed is fungespace.hs < 1297382507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1297382546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [[Sometimes when someone has a shameful or socially unacceptable death, such as suicide or the above mentioned alchohol poisioning and such, the media will blame fan death even when it is clearly evident that they were killed by some other means. It is possible for the death someone with a gun shot wound to be blamed on fans.] [[I was recently discussing this via email with a friend, his (humorous) comments follow: < 1297382546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The explanation of fan death is accepted by many Korean medical professionals. In summer, mainstream Korean news sources regularly report on cases of fan death, even if more likely causes (e.g. heart attack, ****gunshot****, alcohol poisoning) are evident."]] < 1297382551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1297382567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → how the hell is it twenty past twelve oh god < 1297382570 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf. i just noticed that how_stupid_is_it beats wireless XD < 1297382575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THE FAN PUT A BULLET IN MY HEART < 1297382607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, A BULLET MADE OF SLICED UP OXYGEN ATOMS < 1297382613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297382625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [[I'm a South Korean, and my family also has used the function in summer nights. However, it's not because of the only "fan death" belief. My family uses the function because of not only "fan death" belief but also other various reasons: < 1297382625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent to be sick with air-conditioningitis (냉방병; 冷房病) < 1297382625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to save electric charges: When we already fell asleep in usual summer night, although fans are turned off, we can sleep comfortable continually if the windows are opened (except abnormally hot night). < 1297382625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to ask you not to think a "timer snob" of Korean fans as "just" a equipment to prevent "fan death". ― 韓斌/Yes0song (談笑 筆跡 다지모) 07:16, 19 February 2008 (UTC)]] < 1297382631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: PREVENT TO BE SICK WITH AIR-CONDITIONINGITIS < 1297382680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koreans are just particularly suseptible to hypothermia < 1297382686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wow, i didn't realise jhc was such a cool compiler < 1297382689 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by adding a single + to the beginning of wireless, it now gets almost two more points than the next best program. crazy. < 1297382695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://repetae.net/computer/jhc/jhc.shtml (out of date apparently but mostly correct) < 1297382717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: s/hypo/hyper/ < 1297382722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "No pre-written runtime. other than 20 lines of boilerplate all code is generated from the Grin intermediate code and subject to all code simplifying and dead code elimination transformations." "Second Intermediate language is based on Boquist's graph reduction language. This allows all unknown jumps to be compiled out leaving standard case statements and function calls as the only form of flow control. Combined with jhc's use of region in < 1297382722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ference, this means jhc can compile to most any standard imperative architecture/language/virtual machine directly without special support for a stack or tail-calls." ""All indirect jumps are transformed away, jhc's final code is very similar to hand-written imperative code, using only branches and static function calls. A simple basic-blocks analysis is enough to transform tail-calls into loops." < 1297382724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "E is a pure type system based on Henk and the lambda-cube. An important property of E is that there is no distinction between types and values, this is important for jhc's implementation of type classes." < 1297382736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: They get temperatures and humidity high enough to cause hyperthermia during the summer. < 1297382752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I was making a joke explanation for air-conditionitis < 1297382761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH < 1297382825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked my dad what if I talked to someone who looked at my college courses. He said they wouldn't know me, and about my tending to not get stuff done on time, and said that anywhere else, I'd have failed a lot of courses < 1297382867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your dad is a moron, ignore him, you should move out, blah blah why do I even bother typing this shit < 1297382926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your course of study qualifies you to ask "would you like fries with that?". His argument is invalid. < 1297382994 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the max length of a bf joust program? < 1297383004 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or max nested depth < 1297383032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: mu < 1297383064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you sure that insertFS is the only function updating your fungespace? < 1297383087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, have you tested it directly < 1297383133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haven't tested it directly, I will now; nothing else modifies it directly < 1297383136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only through insertfS < 1297383138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*insertFS < 1297383175 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you mean fan death? < 1297383197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *Shiro.FungeSpace Data.Map> insertFS (10,10) 42 $ insertFS (-10,10) 42 emptyFungeSpace < 1297383198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FungeSpace {spaceMap = fromList [((-10,10),42),((10,10),42)], minCoords = (-10,0), maxCoords = (10,10), rowPopulation = fromList [(10,2)], colPopulation = fromList [(-10,1),(10,1)]} < 1297383201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now to try removing < 1297383214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Shiro.FungeSpace Data.Map> insertFS (10,10) 32 $ insertFS (10,10) 42 $ insertFS (-10,10) 42 emptyFungeSpace < 1297383215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FungeSpace {spaceMap = fromList [((-10,10),42)], minCoords = (-10,10), maxCoords = (-10,10), rowPopulation = fromList [(10,1)], colPopulation = fromList [(-10,1)]} < 1297383216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: argh < 1297383219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (32 is space obviously) < 1297383233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rowPopulation got updated correctly < 1297383238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did colPopulation < 1297383244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but minCOords/maxCoords didn't < 1297383245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact < 1297383248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1297383250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxCoords went *negative*?? < 1297383251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1297383252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right < 1297383253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguable < 1297383256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1297383257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*arguably < 1297383260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: figured it out? :P < 1297383286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you got the correct result then... < 1297383304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, someone quoted something that someone said about people worrying about air conditioner death too < 1297383320 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297383322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I did? < 1297383355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Shiro.FungeSpace Data.Map> insertFS (10,10) 42 $ insertFS (-10,10) 42 emptyFungeSpace < 1297383356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes, those are the correct minCoords/maxCoords < 1297383357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FungeSpace {spaceMap = fromList [((-10,10),42),((10,10),42)], minCoords = (-10,0), maxCoords = (10,10), rowPopulation = fromList [(10,2)], colPopulation = fromList [(-10,1),(10,1)]} < 1297383357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Shiro.FungeSpace Data.Map> insertFS (999,999) 32 $ insertFS (999,999) 42 $ insertFS (10,10) 42 $ insertFS (-10,10) 42 emptyFungeSpace < 1297383357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FungeSpace {spaceMap = fromList [((-10,10),42),((10,10),42)], minCoords = (-10,10), maxCoords = (10,10), rowPopulation = fromList [(10,2)], colPopulation = fromList [(-10,1),(10,1)]} < 1297383363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: those two results should be identical < 1297383363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not < 1297383363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss < 1297383366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/not $/not/ < 1297383385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intermediate result: < 1297383386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Shiro.FungeSpace Data.Map> insertFS (999,999) 42 $ insertFS (10,10) 42 $ insertFS (-10,10) 42 emptyFungeSpace < 1297383387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FungeSpace {spaceMap = fromList [((-10,10),42),((10,10),42),((999,999),42)], minCoords = (-10,0), maxCoords = (999,999), rowPopulation = fromList [(10,2),(999,1)], colPopulation = fromList [(-10,1),(10,1),(999,1)]} < 1297383394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(easier to understand with wide irc window) < 1297383444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh (-10,0) and (-10,10)... < 1297383486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: want me to try less confusing coordinates? < 1297383487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1297383515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i want you to shut up so i can look at what's already there < 1297383701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm... lessee the code again < 1297383806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you want me to put it on sprunge again? :-P < 1297383841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um isn't it what it was previously? < 1297383868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, i was joking < 1297383925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rowPopulation and colPopulation are correct at all times, it seems < 1297383949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. so it's the calculation of bounds that is wrong < 1297383992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Map.alter < 1297383993 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `Map.alter' < 1297383996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> M.alter < 1297383997 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show < 1297383997 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((Data... < 1297384003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1297384092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i note that minCoords and maxCoords are correct in the case above where the space was added < 1297384110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was added last < 1297384122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1297384137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me suspect the _other_ branch < 1297384198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (min x minX, min y minY) (max x maxX, max y maxY) < 1297384203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ought to be correct... < 1297384348 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1297384363 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOT! < 1297384381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah that branch is correct < 1297384383 0 :cheater-!~cheater@g229029172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297384384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in the old correct version too < 1297384395 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireless = #1 program on the hill, with almost 5 more points than the second best < 1297384400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well obviously the modm part wasn't < 1297384533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's just the tiny problem that the examples above that give the wrong result are cases where _only_ that branch should be used < 1297384534 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1297384575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good point. well. < 1297384575 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297384576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh i _know_ < 1297384579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (modm (+1) y popRow) (modm (+1) x popCol) < 1297384582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh thank god < 1297384584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1297384593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the error is in emptyFungeSpace < 1297384611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is empty, it shouldn't _have_ minima or maxima < 1297384630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emptyFungeSpace = FungeSpace Map.empty (0,0) (0,0) Map.empty Map.empty < 1297384633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but so? < 1297384635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in all my examples, < 1297384640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this causes min 10 0 = 0, the wrong result once you add one element < 1297384641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i add before removing < 1297384645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and findMin/... aha < 1297384665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what's the solution though :D < 1297384674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from an ugly Maybe around everything < 1297384712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you just need to know when it's empty in the second branch < 1297384747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if m == Map.empty then (x,y) else (min x minX, min y minY)) < 1297384750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacks away! < 1297384770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so my minimum bound has been broken this whole time heh < 1297384794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and btw you might get a crash from the first branch if you empty fungespace again, not that i know whether this is possible < 1297384804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is but i'll deal with that later < 1297384806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just fixed that AND... drumroll ... ... wait for it < 1297384814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right!! nothing changed < 1297384822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297384837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = < 1297384837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FungeSpace (Map.insert k v m) < 1297384837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if m == Map.empty then (x,y) else (min x minX, min y minY)) < 1297384837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (max x maxX, max y maxY) < 1297384837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (modm (+1) y popRow) (modm (+1) x popCol) < 1297384867 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297384867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you need that on max too < 1297384918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although indeed that should have changed that error part... < 1297384938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1297384967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same error still though < 1297384976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing top-left corner, y should report least point as ( -2 -1 ), not ( -10 -10 ) < 1297384978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing top-left corner, y should report greatest point as ( 182 910 ), not ( 190 919 ) < 1297384978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing right edge, least point reported by y should remain ( -2 -1 ) < 1297384978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing right edge, y should report greatest point as ( 181 910 ), not ( 190 919 ) < 1297384978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing bottom edge, y should report greatest point as ( 181 909 ), not ( 190 918 ) < 1297384996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297385074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that particular error just corrected cannot give anything but a misplaced 0 somewhere, i think < 1297385086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that cannot be the cause < 1297385165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is the most wtf bug ever... < 1297385172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1297385175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the algorithm does make sense right? < 1297385183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1297385185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the minimum and max keys of a population count map where there are no 0 values < 1297385194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: AHA < 1297385204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what if there's a value at (0,500) and a value at (700,0) < 1297385212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, that works < 1297385218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxX = 700, maxY = 500 < 1297385314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so err... any clues < 1297385398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it possible for you to get a print of the fungespace at that point when the bad thing happens? < 1297385416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i could print it out on every y, but IIRC Mycology tests y a shitload. but it could be worth a try. < 1297385427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except that that would be /hopelessly/ impractical, unless i omitted the space map < 1297385435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because mycology is a 100K text file even to start with < 1297385442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would just the min/max coords and population lists do? < 1297385445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try putting in a test for the faulty values 190 919 it mentions above < 1297385445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(population lists will be very long) < 1297385454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just print out the value at that point? < 1297385459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1297385481 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297385490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah try that first < 1297385539 0 :augur!~augur@pool-173-73-128-87.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297385542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw just so you know: < 1297385544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before that test: < 1297385548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("YYYYYY","190 919 --> ",32) < 1297385548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y claims all of the following: < 1297385548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1297385550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the least point containing a non-space cell is ( -3 -2 ) < 1297385556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the greatest point, relative to that point, is ( 183 911 ) < 1297385556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: relative to that point < 1297385562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tl;dr whenever y is called, 190,919 is 32 < 1297385570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hunch is that it's always 32. < 1297385581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: remember that even if (x,y) is the tightest max bound it can be space < 1297385589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because consider (32,0) and (0,32) < 1297385591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max bound is (32,32) < 1297385593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will just have a space at it < 1297385636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1297385700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but _is_ the separate maxx and maxy which should be reported, not some actually filled cell, i presume < 1297385705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it _is_ < 1297385710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1297385722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (well technically the spec contradicts that but then it contradicts itself a line later, so we just ignore it) < 1297385737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's the topleftmost point of the smallest bounding rectangle and its size, basically < 1297385760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1297385776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by basically, i mean exactly < 1297385787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO ER ANY IDEAS :D ... maybe it's a GHC bug! < 1297385801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you said this worked before you optimized insertFS's minmax calculations < 1297385802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, the logic is flawless. so i'm dumbfoundergasted. < 1297385818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes; for posterity here is the original version of insertFS < 1297385848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try calculating the min and max at that point directly from the main Map < 1297385863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er, if you let me paste, that's exactly what insertFS /used/ to do < 1297385865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid sprunge is being slow < 1297385871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://sprunge.us/GhCM < 1297385892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this worked perfectly apart from the minor "empty fungespace min/max" bug which did _not_ trigger in mycology < 1297385906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc there were no population count maps < 1297385984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1297385989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so we know that the population counts are being updated perfectly. < 1297386012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and we know that the non-shrink case updates the ... wait < 1297386019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, nm < 1297386023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and we know that the non-shrink case updates the bounds perfectly < 1297386034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so the error _must_ be in the calculation of bounds from population counts in the shrink case < 1297386041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : newMinX = fst . Map.findMin $ colPopulation fs' < 1297386043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : newMaxX = fst . Map.findMax $ colPopulation fs' < 1297386043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : newMinY = fst . Map.findMin $ rowPopulation fs' < 1297386043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : newMaxY = fst . Map.findMax $ rowPopulation fs' < 1297386044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the error must be there < 1297386047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1297386124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you _have_ checked that colPopulation and rowPopulation are correct at the BAD point? < 1297386157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, whatever mycology wants it to be) < 1297386189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well no. but thanks to my exhaustive two-line test, i assume that code is perfect < 1297386210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL CHECK IT ANYHOW < 1297386223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Shiro.FungeSpace Data.Map> insertFS (10,12) 22 $ insertFS (10,11) 22 $ insertFS (10,10) 22 emptyFungeSpace < 1297386224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FungeSpace {spaceMap = fromList [((10,10),22),((10,11),22),((10,12),22)], minCoords = (0,0), maxCoords = (10,12), rowPopulation = fromList [(10,1),(11,1),(12,1)], colPopulation = fromList [(10,3)]} < 1297386224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Shiro.FungeSpace Data.Map> insertFS (10,11) 32 $ insertFS (10,12) 22 $ insertFS (10,11) 22 $ insertFS (10,10) 22 emptyFungeSpace < 1297386224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FungeSpace {spaceMap = fromList [((10,10),22),((10,12),22)], minCoords = (10,10), maxCoords = (10,12), rowPopulation = fromList [(10,1),(12,1)], colPopulation = fromList [(10,2)]} < 1297386228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks good to me < 1297386234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there is no way i can test col/rowPopulation on mycology < 1297386238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as i said, it's 100K + some < 1297386240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not _that_ test < 1297386243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what test? < 1297386254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that many columns and rows? < 1297386274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you mean? obviously there can be an empty row < 1297386278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it won't be in the list < 1297386278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle < 1297386295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean 100K doesn't mean 100K rows or 100K columns < 1297386314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess rows are often larger < 1297386325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so just check the columns < 1297386335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: same with columns, it was an example < 1297386336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were reported in error too, after all < 1297386343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mycology explicitly puts something a way out of space < 1297386349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with both blank columns and rows separating it from anything else < 1297386363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well that doesn't matter unless it puts things in _every_ column < 1297386368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, most) < 1297386385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i'm not sure what you want me to print them < 1297386388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1297386396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : io $ print ("YYYYYY","190 919 --> ", fungeSpace st !@ (190,919)) < 1297386400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I have now < 1297386401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*)) < 1297386450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just print minimum . keys ... and maximum . keys ... for colPopulation directly < 1297386490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to see if colPopulation itself contains an error before assuming that the error is in calculating data _from_ it < 1297386503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so calculate the data in a different way < 1297386520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, where do yo uwant the output from? < 1297386522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which point < 1297386523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you want < 1297386536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("minkeys are monkeys",-10,"but maxkeys are for life",180) < 1297386537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("minkeys are monkeys",-10,"but maxkeys are for life",180) < 1297386537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing top-left corner, y should report least point as ( -2 -1 ), not ( ("minkeys are monkeys",-10,"but maxkeys are for life",180) < 1297386537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[same coords for the rest of the errors] < 1297386539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some point where you know mycology is complaining about the result of y < 1297386551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thta's the first point < 1297386557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relevant: < 1297386564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("minkeys are monkeys",-3,"but maxkeys are for life",180) < 1297386568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the least point containing a non-space cell is ( -3 -2 ) < 1297386568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the greatest point, relative to that point, is ( 183 911 ) < 1297386572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that it's offset so 183-3 = 180 is the real greatest point) < 1297386578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the y output that is) < 1297386580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the debug output is absolute) < 1297386591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and it turns to -10,180 here: < 1297386596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: read written data to (-10, -10) < 1297386597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: (-8, -9) is @ < 1297386597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: read data in binary mode to (-10, -10) < 1297386597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: (0, -10) is 13 < 1297386597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("minkeys are monkeys",-10,"but maxkeys are for life",180) < 1297386600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for obvious reasons < 1297386617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so that means colPopulation _is_ in error < 1297386629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i would assume now < 1297386644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that -10 should have been -2) < 1297386677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemingly < 1297386690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh i think i know again! < 1297386696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1297386718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i asked you about why you didn't check if Map.lookup k m == Nothing < 1297386719 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-209.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297386729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because mistake :D < 1297386729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1297386735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of _COURSE_ < 1297386738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that if it's nothing, < 1297386747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still subtracts from popcount! < 1297386749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1297386761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing < 1297386767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if fs !@ k == space then fs else < 1297386768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one line fix < 1297386800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: after spacing top-left corner, y should report least point as ( -2 -1 ), not ( ("minkeys are monkeys",-10,"but maxkeys are for life",180) < 1297386802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("minkeys are monkeys",-10,"but maxkeys are for life",180) < 1297386802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-10 -10 ) < 1297386808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1297386811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wtf, we (you) keep discovering and fixing all these fatal bugs, but they don't change shit < 1297386818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the worst :D < 1297386870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sooooooooooooo :D < 1297386887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait ... the other branch has the _opposite_ error :D < 1297386899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you add 1 even if it _wasn't_ space :D < 1297386902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aaargh :D < 1297386912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have i ever told you i'm retarded? < 1297386921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1297386929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON OCCASION < 1297386938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if fs !@ k == space then modm (+1) y popRow else popRow) < 1297386940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if fs !@ k == space then modm (+1) x popCol else popCol) < 1297386951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i love how perfect the code looked at first < 1297386954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now ALL THESE BUGS < 1297386967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1297386974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: y reports shrunk bounds correctly after spacing top-left corner < 1297386978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: y reports shrunk bounds correctly after spacing right edge < 1297386982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: y reports shrunk bounds correctly after spacing bottom edge < 1297386983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman < 1297386988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a happy dance < 1297387004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you've finally put your phd to good use! < 1297387008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh snap) < 1297387019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but seriously :DDDDDD ENDLESS HAPPIES THANK YOU < 1297387020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1297387048 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297387048 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1297387048 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1297387130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooo < 1297387145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now i have to backport my optimised mergeByteString to this new structure :-D < 1297387148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to break shit!!! < 1297387161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh _dear_ god < 1297387179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMETHING LIKE THAT < 1297387196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep -> < 1297387202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1297387387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: actually port the optimise mergeByteString :D < 1297387437 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi < 1297387444 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the bot tries to msg back the wrong nick < 1297387451 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it tried to msg myndzi_ < 1297387458 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not? < 1297387467 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just didn't send for some reason < 1297387854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses dcc < 1297388085 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297388087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1297388348 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1297388363 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone doesn't know the difference between dcc and msg? < 1297388462 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1297388669 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :p_q < 1297388684 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :poiuy_qwert < 1297389139 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1297389139 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297389319 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1297391022 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai myndzi < 1297391094 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful beats wireless every time on one polarity, and vice versa on the other XD < 1297391105 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1297391107 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that possible < 1297391116 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297391119 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1297391125 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1297391127 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant you submitted wireless with a reversed polarity < 1297391135 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297391136 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1297391144 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly tho, how does it happen? < 1297391150 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1297391151 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckin polarities, how do they work < 1297391153 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's polarized < 1297391172 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed to work better on one polarity? < 1297391172 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, i'll even it out < 1297391174 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297391217 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez man, wanna shorten that thing a bit? < 1297391241 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, that actually didn't do what i thought it would < 1297391278 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what are you doing, tweak2win? :P < 1297391313 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well just now, i was just trying to figure out a way to beat shudder consistently, cuz the old version just basically beat it on length 30 < 1297391322 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still haven't quite got it < 1297391333 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about shudder :P < 1297391353 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i already beat most everything else < 1297391364 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiggle3 is my bane, but i don't know what to do about that < 1297391367 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shudder seems doable < 1297391387 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiggle3 -> set bigger decoys than it offsets < 1297391397 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already do that. < 1297391399 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the right order < 1297391405 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which order? < 1297391405 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess maybe you just attack too slow then < 1297391410 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the order it clears them < 1297391415 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first ones it clears are small < 1297391424 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i am misremembering < 1297391426 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore that < 1297391432 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just want to force it into the deepest loop < 1297391448 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the thing with careful < 1297391451 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only attacks in one direction < 1297391466 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously if you have defensive mechanisms, decoys, etc. in the other direction it won't work well in that combination < 1297391483 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i could balance it out if i added an attack in the opposite direction but that didn't happen < 1297391527 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my decoys are l2r, -127,129,-129,-19,18,-1,1 < 1297391572 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well wiggle was optimized agaisnt slowrush lol < 1297391574 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which used 19 < 1297391582 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you go to 20 and it'll help < 1297391593 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually cheated a little, bumped the decoys just a bit to get him back for that < 1297391594 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297391602 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it looked like it was optimized against 20 when i read it < 1297391616 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, he went one over < 1297391617 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, those decoys worked better than 20 when i tested them < 1297391623 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the time every time i changed it he edited it to match < 1297391628 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with other people on the hill < 1297391628 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297391664 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a built-in game of the the traveller's dilemma :P < 1297391672 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*iterated traveller's dilemma < 1297391725 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can see ais avoiding doing that sort of thing < 1297391744 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to too, slowrush was a special case for me because it was back and forth between 1 and 2 with wiggle back then and now i get to have the last word ;) < 1297391753 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently alternating attacks isn't enough < 1297391792 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, any idea how to stop drawing against shudder? < 1297391802 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on all but one tape length? < 1297391812 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297391816 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you aren't reaching the last cell < 1297391823 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, drawing on all BUT one < 1297391841 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i can detect it, but no idea what sequence of shifts would kill it < 1297391856 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to counter its attack < 1297391862 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ when it -- or something < 1297391869 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the right time, too < 1297391875 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's a waste of time < 1297391900 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it'll get me a lot of points without costing me in other matches, so.... < 1297391905 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm curious why our programs behave that way too < 1297391917 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will cost you in other matches < 1297391922 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to spend a lot of time on your attack to beat it < 1297391928 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1297391929 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tie with it and call it good < 1297391929 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297391939 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you tie with it every round except the last one, that's enough to beat it actually < 1297391953 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do beat it < 1297391954 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tying means don't fall out of the attack loop < 1297391958 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i could beat it more < 1297391961 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297391966 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get more points for beating it more < 1297391968 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?) < 1297391975 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't i? < 1297391979 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of < 1297391985 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik the only point gain is from win or loss < 1297391987 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not how much you won or lost by < 1297391989 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i could be wrong < 1297391994 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see then < 1297392042 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scores say you do < 1297392062 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each program gains one point per win and loses one point per loss, with ties < 1297392062 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither gaining nor losing points. The duel points have the range -84 to 84, < 1297392062 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inclusive. < 1297392062 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sum of these duel points total is then divided by 84, the total number of < 1297392062 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configurations, such that the point range is -M to M inclusive, where M is one < 1297392064 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than the total number of programs. < 1297392087 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's points, but you're ranked by score < 1297392092 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but... < 1297392096 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :score is based on the points of the programs you beat, yes? < 1297392100 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scores are derived from the basic points, but giving more emphasis to defeating < 1297392103 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good programs. Every program is given a worth of (points+N)/(M*2), where N is < 1297392106 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of programs and M is N-1. < 1297392112 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :points are included in the score < 1297392116 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1297392121 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well t hen < 1297392122 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1297392129 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should be optimizing a little more ;) < 1297392150 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1297392169 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can detect when i'm facing shudder already, and only do the long attack loop in that case < 1297392180 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know what sequence will kill it fastest < 1297392198 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butter doesn't work :P < 1297392202 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you want both polarities you have to spend like 256 cycles on both < 1297392205 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1297392238 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it beats them both < 1297392243 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno by how much though < 1297392255 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway look at it like this < 1297392260 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shudder makes the flag cell sequence go: < 1297392270 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 0 1 2 1 2 3 2 3 4 3 4 5.... < 1297392302 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you need to do is hit it with a - or + at the right time, and then you beat it < 1297392312 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see that the 'right time' is basically every other cell < 1297392337 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to be lined up with it < 1297392351 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see what happens if you do something like -..-..-..-..-.. < 1297392396 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started to work it out like this on paper but then i was like BAH THIS WILL TAKE FOREVER < 1297392419 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sequence is basically what i'm doing already, and it doesn't work < 1297392435 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking out loud here ;p < 1297392439 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously -. won't work properly < 1297392442 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm actually doing [+.] which is equivalent) < 1297392447 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need a sequence that is relatively prime to its progress < 1297392458 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for excel < 1297392460 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe +.. < 1297392470 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+.. will not work better than -.. < 1297392475 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297392481 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [+..] is rel prime to it < 1297392485 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 cycles to 3 < 1297392491 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that's a 4 cycle loop < 1297392495 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but i see what you mean < 1297392499 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, one sec < 1297392659 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297392743 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, two cycles is relatively prime to 3 < 1297392756 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a net positive, then a two cycle negative loop will beat it very slowly < 1297392768 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to try the reverse < 1297392787 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many cycles does it take there? < 1297392805 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long time < 1297392811 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it progresses at a rate of like 1 every 6 < 1297392820 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could be as much as 255*6 < 1297392829 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still less than 10000 < 1297392829 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that if the polarity switches you're SOL < 1297392860 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1297392863 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway unless you manage to get exactly in synch with it < 1297392869 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you put a tripwire there < 1297392871 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't a real good solution < 1297392876 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking about that just now < 1297392883 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are guaranteed not to run this code unless you are facing shudder < 1297392887 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1297392890 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you should be able to synch up fairly easily < 1297392896 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by waiting until it hits 0 on its own < 1297392904 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what you want to do is assume it's going one way < 1297392910 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and attack in a way that would kill it < 1297392912 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then repeat if you were wrong < 1297392914 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wait again and do it the other direction < 1297392915 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1297392923 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably the fastest way to do it < 1297392936 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, []+[]- < 1297392940 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1297392949 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] checks at the beginning of the cycle < 1297392953 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death checks at the end < 1297392961 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when your tripwire falls through < 1297392966 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cell will have moved on to the next instruction < 1297392975 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it hits 0 three times < 1297392978 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on each instruction < 1297392987 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297392991 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to synch up you'd have to do some craziness actually < 1297392995 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1297393001 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, say that it is running +-- < 1297393004 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the + makes it 0 < 1297393009 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when your code runs it will be -1 < 1297393016 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to get it back to 0 for two cycles < 1297393035 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to run +.+ < 1297393046 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the + would counteract the second - < 1297393050 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. lets it bring itself to 0 < 1297393053 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and + counteract the first - < 1297393059 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can have another loop to check if that failed < 1297393065 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, you try another sequence < 1297393073 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could have like < 1297393073 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the possibilities are < 1297393075 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++- < 1297393077 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and --+ < 1297393086 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's timing remember < 1297393089 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1297393091 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say it hits it on the second instruction < 1297393102 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could happen depending on when you arrive, i guess < 1297393110 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd go with the most probable one first, which is to be on the 'leading edge' < 1297393115 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is there a sequence of additions that can cover multiple polarities and timings? < 1297393118 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll assume you get there and you are waiting for it to find 0 on its own < 1297393133 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1297393134 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, but it's probably convoluted and takes a long time < 1297393144 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you've said we can "detect" it and therefore run specific code < 1297393147 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here's how i'd do it < 1297393148 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ++- is most likely to hit the second + < 1297393155 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and --+ the second minus < 1297393167 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a net positive, it will first hit 0 on the second + < 1297393179 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your trip falls through and it will be running the backwards step < 1297393187 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which takes it to -1 < 1297393192 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when your code runs it is 0 again < 1297393194 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...[]+.+[]-.- < 1297393198 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [].- < 1297393205 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297393213 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ran [] when it wasn't in the middle of "being near zero" < 1297393217 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's a net negative < 1297393224 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it first hits zero on the second minus < 1297393237 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [].+ < 1297393268 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297393281 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it runs +--+-- and you run .- which makes it become -1 and it's on the second minus < 1297393290 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you counteract that with a +, making it -1 again < 1297393296 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it runs + making it 0 < 1297393300 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you counteract the - with a + < 1297393308 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [].-+.+ < 1297393311 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will kill it < 1297393321 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guaranteed, i believe < 1297393331 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you happen to enter [] in an unlucky spot < 1297393336 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that can be fixed by looping on the above code < 1297393368 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shutter (>[[].-+.+])*29 < 1297393395 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, stop stealing my breakdown < 1297393401 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i goofed on one polarity somehow < 1297393404 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me rethink this < 1297393423 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_shutter: 7.7 < 1297393474 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to able to have something like: phrase("destroy",6,"target","creature") which "creature" might converted to and(is(entity.object.permanent),has_type(type.creature)) and then "target" to something like target(...) and then deal with multiple targets, with actions, and then move target(...) outside and make it referenced within the action, and so on... < 1297393476 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp...no luck...looks like i'm not detecting it right :P < 1297393495 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can't help you there ;) < 1297393509 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shutter (>[[].-+.+])*29 < 1297393519 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you copy paste my code and reenter it? < 1297393530 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to have the exact same result except you look like a dick! :p < 1297393534 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides i'm about to fix it < 1297393562 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't see the result the first time < 1297393564 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_shutter: 7.7 < 1297393572 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pounded the breakdown < 1297393584 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shutter (>[[].-++])*29 < 1297393588 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off by one, always the problem < 1297393607 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal_shudder.bfjoust vs myndzi_shutter.bfjoust: < 1297393607 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < 1297393607 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi_shutter.bfjoust wins < 1297393612 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1297393626 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_shutter: 9.9 < 1297393628 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting on the inverse one < 1297393635 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi_shutter.bfjoust vs quintopia_one_o_them_shudder_thangs.bfjoust: < 1297393635 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < 1297393636 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi_shutter.bfjoust wins < 1297393637 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1297393644 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gj < 1297393734 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297393734 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297393737 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shutter ----->+++++>(-)*25>(+)*25>>>>>(>[-][[].-++])*29 < 1297393755 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_shutter: 19.3 < 1297393758 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didn't work out, forgot i could get stuck < 1297393763 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shutter ----->+++++>(-)*25>(+)*25>>>>>(>[---][[].-++])*29 < 1297393780 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help < 1297393787 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to use a loop based attack < 1297393805 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_shutter: 27.4 < 1297393813 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shutter ----->+++++>(-)*25>(+)*25>>>>>(>(-)*128.[[].-++])*21 < 1297393857 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i don't need the noop there < 1297393876 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_shutter: 13.2 < 1297393895 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, the original wireless that ignores shudder gets more points :P < 1297393902 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what'd i tell you < 1297393905 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notworth the time ;p < 1297393928 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says to me < 1297393938 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there is some program that looks like shudder < 1297393985 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1297393988 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does that last one get ties < 1297393998 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is add a fixed attack? < 1297394009 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297394010 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly me < 1297394013 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to move after that < 1297394013 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1297394021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOOOOO < 1297394024 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crapping_turtle <40 :( < 1297394036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wireless #1 D-8 < 1297394049 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First time ais hasn't been in the top two since the recent revival! < 1297394063 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297394076 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, i tromp shudder perfectly again < 1297394113 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i get shit points against anything else < 1297394113 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1297394147 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a looping attack is ok, but i want to beat shudder 100% so i need to do something that will eventually fall out of alignment in any eventuality < 1297394156 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M SO FONCUSED < 1297394183 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your tripwire loop doesn't work for me. i need a graphical referee to see what is happening < 1297394192 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at it this way < 1297394201 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume you are looping when shudder is far away from zero < 1297394206 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait < 1297394211 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean it doesn't work when you put it in your code < 1297394214 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297394214 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously looping in the wrong place < 1297394220 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be sure you don't run it after, say, making a cell nonzero < 1297394221 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i did above < 1297394222 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1297394227 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1297394242 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant code was: < 1297394255 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-[++[(+)*9[.-][[+.]][[].-++]]]] < 1297394269 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1297394273 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the one i meant < 1297394275 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297394287 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-[++[(+)*9[.-][[].-++]]]] < 1297394292 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1297394314 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll run it again and check < 1297394316 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [] is landing on shudder's cell, then it will work; that means if it doesn't work, it's not landing on shudder's cell < 1297394380 0 :x43112609!~Tu1ly@212.203.98.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297394397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_regret_everythiiiiiiiiiing < < 1297394409 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_i_regret_everythiiiiiiiiiing: 0.0 < 1297394413 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sad thing is [---] gets the most points but doesn't 100% shudder < 1297394421 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[--] gets fewer points but 100%s it < 1297394422 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, apparently it's not landing on shudder's flag because it isn't working < 1297394442 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try with an offset clear < 1297394444 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for lulz < 1297394458 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297394479 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse < 1297394479 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a bfjoust sim that lets me see what happened at each step of the match? < 1297394479 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1297394488 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of < 1297394492 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust debugger lol < 1297394497 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about how handy it would be earlier today < 1297394522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_regret_everythiiiiiiiiiing < < 1297394539 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you keep doing that? < 1297394564 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_i_regret_everythiiiiiiiiiing: 0.0 < 1297394571 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing what < 1297394579 0 :x43112609!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi dudes :) < 1297394600 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Because I have magic powers. < 1297394605 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x43112609: You'd better be armed with BFJoust programs X-P < 1297394619 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BEAT YOUR SUICIDER HAHAHAHA < 1297394631 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flawless victory! < 1297394697 0 :x43112609!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh!! < 1297394735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'm still #16 :) < 1297394756 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my score has gone down by 2 points since myndzi showed up :P < 1297394764 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1297394809 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bf joust debugger would be p neat though < 1297394823 0 :x43112609!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know rules < 1297394836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x43112609: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust < 1297394845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x43112609: And TECHNICALLY you don't have to do BFJoust here, but everybody else is right now :P < 1297394871 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would make one myself if i weren't so worried i screw the rules up when i wrote the interp :P < 1297394890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: EgoJoust is open. < 1297394892 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always test for same results as the hill < 1297394893 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1297394924 0 :x43112609!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wath is BF... < 1297394930 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wath < 1297394956 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, quintopia < 1297394962 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can modify the attack to not require a tripwire < 1297394990 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to understand that you can fall out of the loop at another point in the cycle < 1297395001 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you will have a longer attack < 1297395009 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll go from 5 cycles to probably 20 < 1297395029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*120[+].+>]+>[(+)*120[+].->]->)*11 < 1297395036 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may as well solve this while i'm at it < 1297395043 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_rapping_turtle: 16.9 < 1297395046 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah, but i'm no good at graphics in C < 1297395048 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO SENSITIVE X_X < 1297395053 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YO MY NAME IS MC TURTLE AND I'M HERE TO SAY / BRAINFUCK HURTS MY HEAD IN THE VERY BEST WAY < 1297395090 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SCOOT ALONG THE TAPE / MY SIGHTS ARE SET ON RAPE / BUT I'M SLOW SO WHEN I GO IT MAY JUST TAKE ALL DAY < 1297395102 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*126[+].+>]+>[(+)*126[+].->]->)*11 < 1297395107 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was actually more of a limerick and only if you pronounce it weirdly < 1297395107 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297395115 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIGHT so i'm going to solve shudder < 1297395117 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_rapping_turtle: 17.5 < 1297395190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*112(+.)*32.+>]+>[(+)*112(+.)*32.->]->)*11 < 1297395203 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_rapping_turtle: 39.3 < 1297395208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better :) < 1297395245 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*120(+.)*16.+>]+>[(+)*120(+.)*16.->]->)*11 < 1297395256 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_rapping_turtle: 40.0 < 1297395264 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i love how dirk hangs on so diliGENTLY < 1297395265 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betterer :) < 1297395270 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it hits the bottom regularly < 1297395289 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rapping_turtle (-)*64(>+>-)*4>([(+)*120(+.)*16.+>]+>[(+)*120(+.)*16.->]->)*11 < 1297395300 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_rapping_turtle: 31.7 < 1297395304 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yikes < 1297395309 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do the points add up to zero? < 1297395313 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*120(+.)*16.+>]+>[(+)*120(+.)*16.->]->)*11 < 1297395327 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: In principle, modulo rounding error on output. < 1297395333 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_rapping_turtle: 40.0 < 1297395346 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is a zero sum game. neat :P < 1297395361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Points are not the final score. < 1297395370 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: And score does not add to anything meaningful. < 1297395375 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WAT < 1297395381 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust snapping_turtle < < 1297395391 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_snapping_turtle: 0.0 < 1297395415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/SCORES < 1297395425 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor keke2 < 1297395453 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah, i was just about to suggest you rewrite that so it didn't take a million years of reading to figure out what it means < 1297395478 0 :x43112609!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1297395486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think he'd last :P < 1297395506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It's really not that complicated X-P < 1297395517 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why is the description so complicated < 1297395528 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understood it once < 1297395534 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's slippery < 1297395577 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-10-216.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297395577 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@208.69.183.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297395610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook: < 1297395610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1: I do believe I am blind as a fucking bat. < 1297395610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me: ‎"Most species of bats have a second set of opaque eyelids which close only during sexual intercourse, protecting the eyes from damage due to mid-coital scratching or biting." -- Wikipedia < 1297395610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm. Did not know. Explains the post though. < 1297395610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#3: My favorite part is you looking that up. < 1297395620 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favorite part is being able to make pseudowikipedia that people apparently think is real :P < 1297395664 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297395678 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pretty believable < 1297395703 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should add it to wikipedia < 1297395710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297395712 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and preemptively tag it with citation needed < 1297395721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahahah < 1297395725 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking citing something irrelevant. < 1297395737 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297395739 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better idea < 1297395744 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screencap the facebook thread < 1297395746 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imgur it < 1297395747 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cite that < 1297395760 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1297395788 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see how long it lasts < 1297395904 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"poor keke2" wut? < 1297396067 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is drowning < 1297396089 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you solve shudder? < 1297396093 0 :pingveno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297396254 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohohoh < 1297396257 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i know < 1297396260 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong < 1297396266 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with wireless XD < 1297396453 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1297396456 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universal shudder killer: < 1297396458 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still can't beat shudder thou < 1297396467 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.--++++++ < 1297396471 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after any loop exits < 1297396473 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ezpz < 1297396479 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows < 1297396495 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to let me be the first to submit though < 1297396497 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1297396516 0 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297396516 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go quick cuz i'm about to stick it in wireless to see what happens < 1297396527 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going right now < 1297396530 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a test run < 1297396554 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :success < 1297396562 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even gonna bother trying to alter the timings < 1297396563 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second < 1297396566 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am content it should work < 1297396582 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to add ---- to the end if it's in a loop right? < 1297396585 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turned out to be simpler than i thought < 1297396594 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to loop this < 1297396600 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1297396621 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i need to be in a loop to detect i need it in the first place XD < 1297396621 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it should be < 1297396624 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.--++++++. < 1297396630 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least the last cell should not be + or - < 1297396633 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe < 1297396635 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.--++++++? < 1297396639 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for clarity's sake < 1297396651 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to be this long, the original would work fine most times < 1297396656 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this handles all fringe cases < 1297396663 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works on net positive and net negative < 1297396672 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the loop falls through after any time it hits 0 < 1297396684 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three times it can hit zero < 1297396702 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you want a loop to fall through < 1297396704 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need . so shudder dies < 1297396710 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then put it back to zero < 1297396714 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the loop will fall through properly < 1297396721 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not shudder, then no probz < 1297396727 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if some of my programs can benefit from this < 1297396737 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if they consistently win against those two or what < 1297396774 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful and careless don't use loops so it wouldn't apply to them, they probably lose some and there's not much help < 1297396777 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowrush might benefit though < 1297396903 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's ONE program on the hill making it this slow lol < 1297396916 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend7 apparently < 1297396924 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust good_vibrations (++--+++)^100000 < 1297396930 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the others i guess < 1297396932 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1297396934 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh give me a break < 1297396936 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust good_vibrations (++--+++)*100000 < 1297396942 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't need that shit ;p < 1297396950 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably suck < 1297396954 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just curious < 1297396956 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1297396998 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend13 does surprisingly well for being so easy to beat < 1297397017 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had another idea for it too... < 1297397079 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah you still fail against shudder < 1297397100 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surprising < 1297397108 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still can't figure out what i'm doing wrong against it < 1297397124 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_good_vibrations: 23.5 < 1297397125 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_good_vibrations: 23.5 < 1297397204 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't implement it right in slowrush either when i tried that < 1297397208 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it back! < 1297397322 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297397357 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust superfast_jellyfish (>([{+[--[(-[{(+)*22[.+].--++++++.----}])%22]]}])%4)*29 < 1297397379 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_superfast_jellyfish: 17.4 < 1297397423 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1297397424 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect! < 1297397437 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks, but it beats defend13! < 1297397457 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still ties with shudder though < 1297397460 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna stop messing with stuff < 1297397460 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you explain that one < 1297397470 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[.+] <- getting stuck < 1297397472 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1297397478 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, the loop has to exit < 1297397490 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1297397521 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to find out i guess < 1297397532 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not getting stuck < 1297397536 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should still hit 0 < 1297397538 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so slow < 1297397558 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are you sure that syntax even works? < 1297397561 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1297397634 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be broked. i was wrong about beating defend13 < 1297397638 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooo.... < 1297397687 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust when_will_it_explode (>[.+].--++++++)*29 < 1297397738 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_when_will_it_explode: 23.0 < 1297397803 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ties with shudder for all of two polarities and half of the other two < 1297397818 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly sweeps it < 1297397999 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297398060 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it exiting the loop, is the question < 1297398070 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used [--] and sweep it < 1297398080 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :----->+++++>(-)*25>(+)*25>>>>>(>[--].--++++++)*21 < 1297398098 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i think i may have forgotten something important < 1297398109 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see how this plays out if the last instruction before ] is a math instruction < 1297398137 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :result (you + enemy) = 0, ] falls through < 1297398142 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297398146 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is different from it reaching 0 naturally < 1297398163 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can't happen if you oppose the enemy, only if you are moving in the same direction < 1297398166 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it is premature < 1297398581 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297398656 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1297398662 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try this: < 1297398682 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>[.+]--.--+++++++++)*29 < 1297398691 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that assumes the + "helped" it along < 1297398709 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though to be honest my head is severely hurting from this spreadsheet being hard to read < 1297398712 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi < 1297398714 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1297398743 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i synched it up so that the + in the loop makes it hit 0 in each of the three places < 1297398750 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each of the six cases < 1297398759 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust superfast_jellyfish (>([{+[--[(-[{(+)*22[.+]--.--+++++++++.-----}])%22]]}])%4)*29 < 1297398770 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting that a straight row of +s or -s at the right location takes care of it < 1297398782 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_superfast_jellyfish: 17.3 < 1297398784 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we only really shortcut this for one direction < 1297398794 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why (+)*10000 probably works < 1297398821 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i guess it's obvious that a straight row of +/- takes care of it < 1297398825 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal_shudder.bfjoust vs quintopia_superfast_jellyfish.bfjoust: < 1297398825 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX < 1297398828 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tie < 1297398832 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twat < 1297398837 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're obviously doing it wrong < 1297398838 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1297398841 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obv < 1297398843 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it < 1297398849 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already did, with my original thing! < 1297398858 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you just go like < 1297398874 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.)*20(-)*100(+)*100 < 1297398875 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give up < 1297398875 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297398889 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that wasn't an insult, it was t + wat < 1297398890 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1297398901 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how i read it < 1297398913 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1297398926 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea why it would tie < 1297398930 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but try the simpler one < 1297398936 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aight < 1297398946 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to at least see that that works < 1297398947 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1297398966 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instruction immediately before ] can skew it, that's why i had to revise < 1297398971 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simpler_one (>[.+]--.--+++++++++.-----)*29 < 1297398998 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_simpler_one: 9.8 < 1297399001 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a shorter sequences < 1297399002 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s < 1297399009 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal_shudder.bfjoust vs quintopia_simpler_one.bfjoust: < 1297399010 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX < 1297399011 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started in the wrong direction that's why it was so long < 1297399013 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tie < 1297399019 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf man >:( < 1297399027 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your spreadsheet is lying to you < 1297399034 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked for ME < 1297399055 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wat (>[.+]++.-------)*29 < 1297399077 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_wat: 25.3 < 1297399078 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1297399087 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wat (.>[.+]++.-------)*29 < 1297399094 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal_shudder.bfjoust vs myndzi_wat.bfjoust: < 1297399094 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX < 1297399096 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, did that wrong < 1297399097 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tie < 1297399099 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oho < 1297399102 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i can read < 1297399103 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wat .(>[.+]++.-------)*29 < 1297399106 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_wat: 26.7 < 1297399109 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to use your attack loop < 1297399113 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1297399120 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the one i used, which worked :P < 1297399142 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wat ..(>[.+]++.-------)*29 < 1297399153 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you used would fail against timing based progs like defend7 < 1297399154 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_wat: 24.8 < 1297399155 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for myndzi_wat: 24.8 < 1297399155 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, as you can see it is a timing issue < 1297399171 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i skew the cycles by one and get different results < 1297399185 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it must be missing the 0 on those ties < 1297399187 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting stuck infinitely < 1297399198 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297399199 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the + boosts it past < 1297399206 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you only win sometimes when it lines up with the - < 1297399233 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of -1 0 1 0 1 2 1 2 3 it goes like < 1297399234 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds reasonable < 1297399238 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 1 2 1 2 3 < 1297399242 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never leaves the loop < 1297399252 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the cycles something that will wind up at 0 at some point < 1297399298 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you use [--] it sweeps it? < 1297399303 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297399322 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my original pattern even < 1297399323 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity that's even < 1297399333 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shutter: ----->+++++>(-)*25>(+)*25>>>>>(>[--].--++++++)*21 < 1297399339 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, change the pattern < 1297399349 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't change it to something that can synch up in certain tape lengths < 1297399357 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe use two loops < 1297399365 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that'll be trickier to calculate < 1297399368 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be something like < 1297399369 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :].] < 1297399370 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shutter2 ----->+++++>(-)*25>(+)*25>>>>>(>[---].--++++++)*21 < 1297399374 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then crazier stuff < 1297399386 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_shutter2: 27.4 < 1297399399 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: make your own damn spreadsheet ;p < 1297399400 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297399405 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit goes A through U < 1297399406 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1297399408 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweeps it < 1297399414 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only reason i can read it at all is conditional formatting < 1297399416 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 cells = red < 1297399420 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297399439 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could probably make a program to calculate what must trail a loop of any kind < 1297399441 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should do that < 1297399467 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to wait till i get home though < 1297399471 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still at work, it's 9pm jesus < 1297399474 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go drive < 1297399582 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1297399672 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1297399730 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297400265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i came up with one that gets a slightly lower score than before but beats all the shudders...i think i'm gonna leave it like that :P < 1297400354 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297400381 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, no i'm not. because it loses to decoytuner and decoybooster2 now :P < 1297400450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297400476 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297401115 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1297401152 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297401575 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1297401837 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297401852 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297401862 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1297401872 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so i was making things too complicated i think < 1297401879 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to go through this in my head than messing with a spreadsheet < 1297401888 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the instruction before ] is a -, here are the cases < 1297401936 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarity --+, first instruction: double-decrement; it can hit 0 if it was 2, then it goes to -1, then it goes to 0 on its own < 1297401977 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarity --+, second instruction: double-decrement; it can hit 0 if it was 2, then it goes to 1, then it goes to 0 on its own < 1297401981 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297402003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297402004 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarity --+, third instruction: net change: 0; it cannot hit 0, the loop will never fall through < 1297402006 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297402019 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the f irst two cases, the next instruction is - and so you should increment to kill it < 1297402068 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives us ?-].+ < 1297402076 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving only the other polarity cases to deal with < 1297402099 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarity ++-, first instruction: no change; it cannot hit 0, the loop will not fall through < 1297402103 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarity ++-, second instruction: no change; it cannot hit 0, the loop will not fall through < 1297402143 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarity ++-, third instruction: double decrement; it can hit zero if it was at 2; then it goes to 1, 2, 2 during the ] . + < 1297402205 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next two instructions are + so we have to ward it off: -- < 1297402216 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one after is -, so - gives us a double decrement, bringing us to zero < 1297402231 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally the one after that is a +, so one more - seals the deal < 1297402277 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore: a loop concluding in -].+---- should kill all shudders < 1297402290 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as the timing resolves such that it can fall through < 1297402358 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i determined that using [.-] as the kill loop works much better than basically any thing else, so i gave up on expecting to be able to kill shudder without ruining my score < 1297402369 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing proves it out < 1297402390 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, my modified shutter does much worse < 1297402397 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it has a simpler kill < 1297402431 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your new shutter appears to kill good_vibrations too < 1297402437 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that was my initial conclusion ;P < 1297402476 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1297402482 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% like with the other shudder < 1297402489 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1297402494 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it lines up with the same set of instructions < 1297402512 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i could extend it to cover that but then someone would just make a bigger one and ugh < 1297402530 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it would fare well against almost all shudders that do okay though < 1297402539 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just...not against anything else < 1297402558 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real trick here is to figure out what to put after ?-][ < 1297402570 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't do anything if it's *not* shudder < 1297402586 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---.+++++++++. works but that's long < 1297402613 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well see what i said above; it's going to be zero in that cell < 1297402623 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will skip it even if it is shudder < 1297402628 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to add a . < 1297402634 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make a longer loop < 1297402648 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297402678 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine. ?-].[ then < 1297402690 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, you'd just have to add more instructions < 1297402698 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be so short because you catch it at a convergence < 1297402704 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1297402706 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the longer you wait, the more you have to struggle to swing to the other side < 1297402725 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would ].[+++-------] do it < 1297402732 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at what i said above < 1297402735 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figure it out for yourself < 1297402749 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said something along the lines of tl;dr < 1297402784 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look man, there's only so much work i'm going to do for YOU < 1297402793 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have satisfied myself < 1297402798 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you aren't satisfied, then do some damn homework < 1297402803 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M TRYING MAN < 1297402813 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i laid it out quite simple above, just extend the pattern < 1297402817 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm staring at what you wrote < 1297402819 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297402822 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying to make heads or tails of it < 1297402830 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went through every applicable case < 1297402831 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might take a few minutes < 1297402835 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three < 1297402853 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only three cases where a -] loop will end when executing on a "shudder cell" < 1297402958 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see what format you're writing it out in now < 1297402977 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"second instruction" means "the second of the three coincides with the - inside the loop" < 1297403105 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, i've got a good form for you < 1297403106 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a second < 1297403116 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've almost got it worked out man < 1297403123 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but this will look so obvious < 1297403124 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1297403228 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it makes it super long < 1297403254 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it may be that you can use the second loop to your advantage to make the code succinct < 1297403256 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so -].[.++--------] will do it < 1297403257 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1297403258 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it matters since it's gonna skip all this < 1297403262 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1297403270 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your timing is off < 1297403271 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one moment < 1297403285 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that works man < 1297403291 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your timing is off < 1297403292 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could spell out the cases like you do < 1297403297 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shudder : -  -  +  -  -  +  - < 1297403297 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attacker: -  ]  .  [  +  .  + < 1297403297 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell Val: 0 -1  0 -1 -1  0  0 < 1297403297 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shudder : -  +  -  -  +  -  - < 1297403297 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attacker: -  ]  .  [  +  .  + < 1297403300 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell Val: 0  1  0 -1  1  0  0 < 1297403317 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i guess they are equivalent < 1297403336 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, the long string of -s is necessary < 1297403345 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only goes down by one every three cycles < 1297403358 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297403359 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so to make it up... < 1297403372 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-].[.++--------++++++] will do it < 1297403374 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297403390 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should only enter that loop if you are running on a shuddering program < 1297403393 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on a stable one < 1297403401 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-].[.++--------.++++++] will do it < 1297403404 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's kinda pointless to try and bring it back to what it was at the start < 1297403411 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also don't need to pause < 1297403424 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes 13 -'s < 1297403425 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't sure whether i finished it or not < 1297403427 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all of them are required < 1297403432 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13? < 1297403437 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shudder : -  +  +  -  +  +  -  +  +  -  +  +  -  +  +  -  +  +  -  +  < 1297403438 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attacker: -  ]  .  [  +  .  +  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - < 1297403438 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell Val: 0  1  2  1  3  4  4  4  4  3  3  3  2  2  2  1  1  1  0  0 < 1297403476 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- + + - + + - + + - + + - + + - + + < 1297403489 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the third case: the opposite polarity < 1297403492 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- ] . [ . + + - - - - - - - - - < 1297403565 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 2 1 2 4 4 4 2 2 2 0 0 < 1297403573 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zat it? < 1297403581 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ - != 2 < 1297403583 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from 4 < 1297403596 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 2 1 2 4 4 4 4 2 2 2 0 0 < 1297403596 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i counted wrong, you're right < 1297403619 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only need 7 -s < 1297403619 0 :nddrylliog!~ndd@AAnnecy-551-1-164-118.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297403644 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point about not trying to make it match up tho < 1297404045 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297404069 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1297404071 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just did it < 1297404090 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireless_frownie not pwns shudder and outscores wireless < 1297404095 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1297404100 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to have two of them < 1297404113 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-249-88.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297404116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297404179 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to me the beest way to beat them all is just to rely on a loop that doesn't synch up and takes advantage of the -+ switch < 1297404183 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty simple < 1297404183 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297404190 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always switches from + to - regardless of polarity < 1297404212 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-94.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297404277 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1297404289 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only beat wireless because it beat wireless < 1297404309 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i remove the original wireless...the new one sucks < 1297404318 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pwnd < 1297404333 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooo...back to the one that loses :P < 1297404473 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1297405806 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1297406739 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is there a max depth that ({})% can be expanded? < 1297409470 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297409650 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1297410790 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1297410838 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-123.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297410987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : someone doesn't know the difference between dcc and msg? <-- EgoBot uses dcc for responses of more than one line. msg would be inappropriate when the response can be up to 4096 characters (iirc) < 1297411199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1297411200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1297411495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... (a(b{c{d}e}f)%m g)%n as an abbreviation of (a(b)*m c))*n d (e(f)*m g)*n is actually perfectly effectively executable < 1297411524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the former matches []'s textually < 1297411612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*efficiently < 1297411704 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that how you nest them? < 1297411717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a[b)*p)*q((c]d)*q)*p would be a bitch to expand < 1297411722 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it doesn't work in egojoust < 1297411730 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({})% i mean < 1297411743 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the constant is too large it fails to parse < 1297411746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'm not sure anyone has thought of this before < 1297411769 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you going to reimplement egojouse to work and work quickly? < 1297411775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: egojoust expands ({})% textually, as you know < 1297411787 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries to, yes < 1297411795 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't always succeed < 1297411803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'm not sure if i have the sufficient initiative < 1297411817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i _do_ have ideas for how it _could_ be done < 1297411863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297411870 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-213-242.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297411877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now i'm pondering how to convert the currently accepted format to something which _does_ have lexically matching [], for which that (({{}})%)% notation would be _very_ useful < 1297411897 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1297411916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however for that ((a[b)*p)*q((c]d)*q)*p is a problem < 1297411940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(imagine p and q being primes, any expansion has to do that one fully afaict < 1297411941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1297411968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(imagine a b c d don't contain []) < 1297412019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i am thinking that a conversion preprocessing stage would be a bitch to do in C, but you only needed to do it once for each program and the _result_ would be easy to interpret in C < 1297412107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Isn't that particular one just identical to (a[b)*(c]d)* = (a[b{}c]d)% (where means substitute-the-product) since you don't have anything else inside the two "top-level" parens? < 1297412171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sheesh i _tried_ to put a b c d to avoid such a simple fix < 1297412185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you need content somewhere else in that < 1297412222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a([b)*p)*q c((]d)*q)*p perhaps? < 1297412292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds more problematical, though maybe (c(]d)*q)*p as the latter half for symmetry? < 1297412317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1297412511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe even (a([b[)*p)*q(c(]d])*q)*p < 1297412523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait no < 1297412574 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1297412593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the first one, p=3, q=5 → a[b[b[b a[b[b[b a[b[b[b a[b[b[b a[b[b[b c]d]d]d]d]d c]d]d]d]d]d c]d]d]d]d]d → a [b[b [ba [b [b [ba [b[b [ba [b [b [ba [b[b [bc] d]d] d] d] dc] d] d]d] d] dc] d] d] d]d] d which does look quite messy. < 1297412606 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d9329f5a.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297412615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a([b[)*p)*<3*q>(c(]d]])*q)*<2*p>, now the expansion won't even preserve textual matching of parentheses < 1297412620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1297412645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously since there aren't the same number of [ and ] textually < 1297412659 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297412969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh the expansion numbers have a limit of 10000 < 1297412990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything not between 0 and 10000 is turned into 10000 < 1297413006 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in egojoust it breaks if you use anything above like 20 < 1297413021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however this check afaict doesn't happen if the loop isn't expanded < 1297413029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hm that's weird < 1297413259 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is why wireless_frownie's code is so damn ugly at the moment. the compressed version always failed to parse < 1297413672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps there is an actual bug there, and not just the size of the resulting expansion < 1297413936 0 :ndd!~ndd@dhcp-83-219-104-237.customers.tvtnet.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1297413948 0 :ndd!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nddrylliog < 1297413983 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1297414001 0 :nddrylliog!~nddryllio@dhcp-83-219-104-237.customers.tvtnet.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1297414006 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1297414031 0 :nddrylliog!~nddryllio@dhcp-83-219-104-237.customers.tvtnet.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1297414247 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1297414333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you imply it works for values < 20, seems a bit strange < 1297414375 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never figured out exactly what value it first failed for < 1297414392 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think it still failed sometimes for 19 < 1297414414 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(depending on whether the loops had to ever be expanded) < 1297414730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i'm detecting some dubious testing for the _end_ of the program during the iteration < 1297414737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i = 0; i < prog.bufused; i++) { < 1297414753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but while expanding he is _not_ keeping prog.bufused accurate < 1297414758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^ < 1297414784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he is ignoring the length of the actual iteration _number_ < 1297414821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog.bufused = prog.bufused - llen - 2 + temp.bufused; < 1297414823 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh i see < 1297414850 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if it expands so that the brackets fall off the *old* end of the program, it might come up that they look mismatched to the parser < 1297414857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is _possible_ that he could be parsing uninitialized memory at the end < 1297414876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: um no < 1297414879 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297414886 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you're saying then :P < 1297414892 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't studied the source < 1297414900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think his code actually _copies_ anything into a wrong place < 1297414932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: he is using realloc. realloc gives no guarantee on the contents of the buffer outside the already used part, iiuc < 1297414966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the thing is that after expansion his variable for telling the _length_ of the program might be too large < 1297414976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(prog.bufused) < 1297415020 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would be better? calloc a whole new bit of memory and copy to it when realloc doesn't give back enough memory? < 1297415026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"#esoteric is not a very noob-friendly channel, and you can expect to receive abuse at the drop of a hat" -- what, are we really that angry? < 1297415061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what does realloc not giving back have to do with this? < 1297415072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: THE ELLIOTT FACTOR < 1297415111 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iunno oerjan. i don't understand exactly what the problem here is < 1297415126 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i was referring to the elliott factor, as oerjan said. < 1297415133 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1297415138 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i secretly meant was < 1297415151 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you people are as like as not idiots, so you should probably not talk" < 1297415162 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be insulting to the ones who aren't idiots < 1297415175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1297415190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: MAYBE _YOU_ SHOULD PROBABLY NOT TALK < 1297415200 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297415202 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1297415208 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can take abuse < 1297415215 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lay it on me bro < 1297415215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats quintopia -----### < 1297415224 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, that's how i like it < 1297415239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a room, you two. < 1297415265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a CHATroom. What, I get a "Tr" ligature on this input line? < 1297415283 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1297415294 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fonts ligature Tr? < 1297415321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just a kerning thing now that I look closely enough; the r is under the T though. < 1297415339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh f wait i found a much worse bug in the size calculation < 1297415378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is _reusing_ llen only inside the % code for a _much_ smaller part only from ( to { ... < 1297415410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the _same_ llen that he is later using to calculate the size of the final program < 1297415420 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297415464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so basically he is overestimating the program size after expansion, _particularly_ much if using ()% < 1297415499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the more he overestimates, imho, the more likely he might end up interpreting uninitialized memory < 1297415504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^ < 1297415622 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1297415647 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh, i see the problem now. < 1297415650 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1297415656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor I have been looking a bit at your egojoust parsing code and i think you are miscalculating the new size of the program after expansion, particularly if using ({})% (you are clobbering llen for a different use) but also elsewhere (ignoring the atoi length). might you not end up looking at unitialized memory? < 1297415656 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1297415668 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, technically speaking they *are* in a room. < 1297415696 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are in different rooms < 1297415703 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from which we access the same channel < 1297415764 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right. < 1297415794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure oerjan is in a room instead of, say, a cave? (I can easily picture him in a cave.) < 1297415811 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297415816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this _looks_ like a room. < 1297415825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the "bearded recluse of which the local populace tell strange stories of" style of cave. < 1297415865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i recall we had one such here in trondheim, not sure if he still lives outside < 1297415923 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd live in a cave < 1297415926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a recent more national example... hm latest i heard he had managed to attract fleas or something from animals < 1297415948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he took a break < 1297415952 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i could find a virgin one and lock it up < 1297415965 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd totes build something just inside the entrance < 1297415966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wat < 1297415994 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1297416029 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking that if i got rich one day, i'd add speleothems and slanted floors and stuff in the basement so i could feel like i was in a cave < 1297416038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor I started looking because quintopia tells he cannot get ({})% to use with iteration count more than 20 or so, at least if the contents are slightly complicated iiuc < 1297416038 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1297416071 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he has to know that eh? < 1297416071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor *to work < 1297416072 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1297416089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well if that actually _affects_ things... < 1297416119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he might be more likely to take a look if the bug actually affects something... < 1297416157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not sure they're _really_ related, i don't see how the calculation bug would be affect by the actual iteration size used < 1297416172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*affected < 1297416274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm i see, the memmove(prog.buf + i + temp.bufused, prog.buf + end + 1, prog.bufused - end - 1); < 1297416280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might interact with this < 1297416336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it might be that _that_ line breaks things more horrible but only due to a _nested_ expansion when prog.bufused has _already_ been miscalculated < 1297416342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more horribly < 1297416419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor the interaction of this with memmove(prog.buf + i + temp.bufused, prog.buf + end + 1, prog.bufused - end - 1); after a _nested_ expansion when prog.bufused has _already_ been miscalculated particularly worries me, that _could_ be the case giving quintopia problems... < 1297416420 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1297416421 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was putting ()* inside of ({})% when it happened < 1297416466 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor is going to get a flood when he next talks and it will be hilarious < 1297416505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: lambdabot initially only tells him there _is_ a message < 1297416523 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1297416535 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...same as memoserv < 1297416544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. the ({})% is expanded first, giving a particularly wrong calculation of prog.bufused (basically, approximately by the length between { and ) ) < 1297416547 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i know < 1297416564 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was cpressey's bot that just said it without any prelude < 1297416617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this is large enough then when the program is rearranged uninitialized memory will end up _inside_ the program < 1297416640 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you nailed it < 1297416928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait no i don't think that memmove actually can do that < 1297416997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prog.bufused is only used to tell how _much_ to copy, and it will only end up beyond the program anyway < 1297417149 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Deewiant maglev currently draws with shudder. it's easy to make it beat it. just change the the *21 to *20>(.+)*10000. this shouldn't hurt its performance elsewhere much at all. < 1297417150 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1297417271 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust maglev (>)*8<+<-<(+)*10<(-)*10<(-)*30<<(+)*42(>)*7(>[(+)*9[-]])*20>(.+)*10000 < 1297417271 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1297417278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait the atoi thing is _not_ a problem because he doesn't actually _remove_ the number from the program. or wait... < 1297417303 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_maglev: 47.4 < 1297417319 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :improvement! < 1297417336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loses to egodeath instead of drawing with it now, but still a net improvement, yes < 1297417340 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheers < 1297417350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still kicks wireless's ass < 1297417363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More score, less points :-P < 1297417415 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also try the anti-shudder trick myndzi and i worked out earlier. it might work for you even better. < 1297417422 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it may not be worth the effort :P < 1297417472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick with that for now < 1297417908 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand decoybooster2 at all at all < 1297417938 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would he set that decoy to size 85, then decrease it to 42? wouldn't it make more sense to increase it to 128? < 1297417951 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a mistake to me < 1297417959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1297418102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor actually won't the memmove(prog.buf + i + temp.bufused, prog.buf + end + 1, prog.bufused - end - 1); end up copying the ) as well... _that_ would surely be a problem when nesting... < 1297418102 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1297418167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor Scratch that last, i cannot read. also the atoi length is of course not a problem. the reuse of llen inside the % branch still is, i believe. < 1297418167 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1297418311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i think i was wrong about there being something subtly wrong with the ()* case as well, i realize it doesn't _matter_ if the *n (or %n for that matter) is left in the program after expansion < 1297418382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list tell < 1297418383 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell provides: tell ask messages messages? clear-messages < 1297418392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help clear-messages < 1297418392 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clear-messages. Clears your messages. < 1297418417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1297418418 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1297418441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't say whether it's messages sent or received though... < 1297418576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell gregor Summary (I don't know whether the previous messages were cleared or not): i think the reuse of llen in the % branch of egojoust.c's parseFile function is a problem that causes the prog.bufused to be calculated wrong when using ({})%, conceivable leading to reading of unitialized memory < 1297418576 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1297419041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems @clear-messages clears messages _to_ you, not from you :D < 1297420125 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297420195 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181135058.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297420215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is synchronistic with bfjoust today < 1297420292 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1297420387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have spurious )s after seeing those on multiple channels. < 1297420593 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1297420610 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1297420858 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297420928 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181131235.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297421190 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: -a- < 1297421210 0 :nescience!~myndzi@m250e36d0.tmodns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297423105 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297424893 0 :nddrylliog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1297425043 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1297425056 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297425121 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@unaffiliated/poiuy-qwert/x-0506151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297426402 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@afrodite.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297426611 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1297427739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297429110 0 :Tritonio!Tritonio@afrodite.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297429227 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1297429232 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1297429268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297429273 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-187.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297429279 0 :elliott_!~elliott@91.105.83.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297429280 0 :elliott_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1297429282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:00:32 huh? < 1297429282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:00:48 someone doesn't know the difference between dcc and msg? < 1297429291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: oh i thought you meant egobot < 1297429295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sends errors via dcc chat < 1297429315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:49:59 well just now, i was just trying to figure out a way to beat shudder consistently, cuz the old version just basically beat it on length 30 < 1297429315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:50:08 still haven't quite got it < 1297429318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: submit in channel dammit < 1297429380 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297429590 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1297429669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ~/Code/shiro/shiro mycology.b98 >/dev/null 2>&1 < 1297429669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m4.261s < 1297429671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad. < 1297429893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's before porting forwards my optimised mergeByteString < 1297429952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiro: <> < 1297429952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot < 1297430235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ~/Code/shiro/shiro mycology.b98 >/dev/null 2>&1 < 1297430235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.971s < 1297430244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 900x speed improvement before I equal or beat cfunge < 1297430267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small piece of cake, clearly < 1297430287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually CCBI only does Mycology in 0.94 to 0.73 seconds here. < 1297430294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's more like 10x-20x-30x improvement. < 1297430303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is totally feasible. < 1297430314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a dumb hashmap and haven't even started unpacking and strictifying things. < 1297430369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ClearBF page got updated < 1297430372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's a bit unfair, since CCBI implements a lot more fingerprints than I do. < 1297430392 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust very_stupid_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+.)*255.+>]+>[(+.)*255.->]->)*11 < 1297430392 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1297430402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI gets 0.028, 0.027, 0.41s with fingerprints disabled here. < 1297430403 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Yeah, fuck oerjan, that guy's a loser. < 1297430409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still a bit weird, but no longer a candidate for deletion, i should think. < 1297430411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1297430417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would anyone message Gregor with _lambdabot_ < 1297430434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he wasn't here and i couldn't remember if he read logs. < 1297430441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :D < 1297430442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: " ● Ability to make comments using "%" to start a comment. The comment ends at the end of the line. < 1297430442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ● All new identifiers (variables) will be awarded automatically initialized to zero." < 1297430453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i got a bit carried away with the blathering. < 1297430457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, I got "basic commands" almost exactly right with my direct cipher of brainfuck < 1297430478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:35:55 @tell Gregor I have been looking a bit at your egojoust parsing code and i think you are miscalculating the new size of the program after expansion, particularly if using ({})% (you are clobbering llen for a different use) but also elsewhere (ignoring the atoi length). might you not end up looking at unitialized memory? < 1297430486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: btw ()*-1 lets you write *10000 easily < 1297430488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with one more 0 whatever < 1297430508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If I write lance will you rejig the scoreboard system to use it? :-P < 1297430519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll do ()* and ()% efficiently and all. < 1297430540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah i noticed ais523 has one program on the hill that actually has *-something and it then means *10000 < 1297430550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's *-160 for some strange reason < 1297430559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and IIRC they're [s < 1297430563 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you write it to exit with the same status as egojoust, there's virtually nil rejigging to do. < 1297430572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's [[[...10000 [s... blah ...10000 ]s...]]] < 1297430583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's egojoust's exit status :P < 1297430591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Number of points. < 1297430602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Negative for left. < 1297430603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297430606 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297430613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot how points are calculated. < 1297430636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yay, lance will result in IMMENSE POINT DEFLATION by not running redundant polarities :P < 1297430640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, it's divided. < 1297430640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DARN < 1297430643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No point deflation. < 1297430652 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be more clear :P < 1297430660 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: EgoJoust returns right wins - right losses. < 1297430669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ah. < 1297430680 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_very_stupid_turtle: 16.7 < 1297430684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 'Sok, I can make it do that, and the fact that it returns lower than egojoust all the time is your code's problem :P < 1297430747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't put it in EgoBot unless you multiply by two. < 1297430759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it also prints the breakdown to stdout. < 1297430779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (1) Dude, s/egojoust/lance/ is as much work as s//*2/ < 1297430784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) I can do that, sure. < 1297430880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returning an array of label pointers: BEST IDEA??? < 1297430881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: note that some people turned out to be sorta attached to the ([)*n notation < 1297430897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: s/some people/impomatic/, and he uses it unmatched, which is just perverse < 1297430906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else is just doing it because it's faster on the current hill afaik < 1297430919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah only impomatic did it completely unmatched < 1297430923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway lance will end up running things like 50x faster than egojoust this way, so I'm going to reject such programs outright. well maybe ([)*nfoo(])*n I can do. < 1297430931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'd rather people just use %. < 1297430941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll write a preconverter and plug it into lance to handle the 90% case. < 1297430986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw what about my (({{}})%)% variation idea? < 1297430998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what was that again? < 1297431001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite easy to do efficiently too < 1297431084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you can abbreviate (([)*m{...}(])*m)%n as (([{...}])%m)%n < 1297431091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1297431102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right now i'm implementing without any () stuff, just to get the basics down < 1297431138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: typedef enum { < 1297431138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SIEVE, /* no change */ < 1297431138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : KETTLE, /* for right warrior, DINK and DONK are swapped */ < 1297431138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} polarity; < 1297431144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what real engineers do, Gregor. < 1297431147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use correct terminology. < 1297431168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically ( pushes starting count on the stack, { iterates back to matching ( or pops, } pushes like (, and ) iterates or pops < 1297431206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and provided [] matches inside () and inside {} like the rule is supposedly already, it should all work < 1297431255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297431258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess } and ) need to count the reverse way of ( and { < 1297431263 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297431279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well myndzi is the one who came up with supar-efficient ways to do ()*n (well that's trivial) and ()%n (harder) < 1297431283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter i'll have to ask him about < 1297431293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it ais who came up with that. < 1297431298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mine is just a generalization of a ()%n method < 1297431301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1297431325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you serious about that "won't put it in EgoBot unless you pointlessly multiply by two" thing? < 1297431325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized you didn't have to put {} immediately inside () always, you can have intervening ()'s < 1297431348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a stack regime for matching < 1297431385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1297431429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and the notation looks like it could be useful, too < 1297431443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll implement that as soon as it can run ()-less programs then < 1297431752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what's the maximum number of loops a warrior can get into, ... oh wait, it's 100000 < 1297431764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in egojoust, yes < 1297431771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well i'm not changing that for lance < 1297431804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :781 kilobytes on the stack, nice :D < 1297431823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1297431850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, looks like the TV Tropes people are eviscerating the Troper Tales and Fetish Fuel namespaces. < 1297431856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* (([{{...}}])%m)%n < 1297431883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So first they move everything to Troper Tales, and then they demolish it? < 1297431905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's talk about moving it to another site. < 1297431939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1297431948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it either. < 1297431952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it irks me that I can't optimise loops in BF Joust sanely :( < 1297431961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the normal way basically turns it into a while loop that recurses the interpreter < 1297431966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which obviously fucks up cycles < 1297431968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's no big deal < 1297431972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [ scanning for the matching ] is shitty < 1297432033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um Gregor's method of caching matching [] positions is quite adequate, you can just do it in a preprocessing pass if you want < 1297432048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i haven't read the egojoust code < 1297432051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could do it < 1297432055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just irks me that i can't do it the normal way < 1297432084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: caching [] _is_ equivalent to the normal way of compiling into something with jumps < 1297432099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1297432101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it just irks me that i can't do it the normal way <-- "the normal way"? < 1297432115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: give loop instructions a ->body, just do "while (tape[ptr]) interpret(ins->body)" < 1297432141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the weather is horrible over here. < 1297432158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you implementing brainfuck? < 1297432172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more accurately bfjoust I guess < 1297432176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'm writing lance < 1297432178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the jump method is better for implementing () efficiently, i think. it leaves you free from needing handling [] on the stack as well < 1297432191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to handle < 1297432215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, congrats on the befunge project being alive until now. That is a record in continuous time spent on a given project I think! < 1297432253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um i'm just taking a break after getting mycology all passing apart from text IO, including all the FILE tests, having instant bounds shrinking, and getting Mycology running fully in less than a second < 1297432259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've earned the right to write a little C program :D < 1297432272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, text IO isn't that hard really. < 1297432283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, but it's also boring, so i've skipped it for now < 1297432290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can read in text and binary mode, just not write in text mode < 1297432298 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, especially with a high level languages you could quite easily do a possibly-slow variant < 1297432329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure i could in haskell too, it'd just feel wrong. < 1297432334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (reverse . dropWhile (==' ') . reverse) . lines < 1297432338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: bytestrings < 1297432342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map is slow i think < 1297432348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1297432350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's map over a list < 1297432351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah whatever < 1297432353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BS.pack . unlines . map (reverse . dropWhile (==' ') . reverse) . lines . BS.unpack < 1297432359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD < 1297432391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that won't work though. Consider literal \n bytes in the funge space being written out < 1297432397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "you better pray that fuses" < 1297432415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or wait, what should you do in that case even? < 1297432443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You should do exactly that, and I think Mycology tests that. < 1297432452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Pack is slow :-P < 1297432456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But, uhh, B8.lines exists. < 1297432459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's \n-only. < 1297432464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1297432468 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, guess I does then < 1297432471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _write_ with \ns in rectangleToByteString. < 1297432474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: You should do exactly that, and I think Mycology tests that. < 1297432477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says UNDEF < 1297432479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1297432481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeaah < 1297432483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: "you better pray that fuses" < 1297432487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have the utmost faith in GHC! < 1297432490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like religion < 1297432500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREAT < 1297432527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So have you implemented the O(1) wrapping yet :P < 1297432552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no. I just got home today. As I told you before. Likely not until the weekend < 1297432563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tomorrow or so < 1297432563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"EXCUSES" < 1297432570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it's UNDEF, but I think it's preferable. :-P < 1297432570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still got university stuff to do < 1297432592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Rite, because then binary reading works with text output. < 1297432597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] < 1297432597 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude dropWhile :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] < 1297432598 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude filter :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] < 1297432598 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude takeWhile :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] < 1297432601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, no initsWhile :-P < 1297432611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :textify = B8.unlines . map (reverse . dropWhile (== ' ') . reverse) . B8.lines < 1297432615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that has a good chance of fusing. < 1297432628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's initsWhile < 1297432632 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent snowfall of rather dry snow + hard wind orthogonal to direction of road = horrible < 1297432638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course reverse won't work there since they're bytestrings < 1297432674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You want map (fst . BS.spanEnd (==' ')) < 1297432676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *B.reverse < 1297432680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a function for that? < 1297432683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1297432696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: P.S. you mean == space < 1297432699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' ' is a Char :P < 1297432703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(We need OverloadedChars.) < 1297432706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I don't know your data types < 1297432713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: space is just 32 < 1297432719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously a bytestring contains word8s, not chars < 1297432727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yours doesn't work anywhere < 1297432731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: initsWhile f === reverse . dropWhile f . reverse < 1297432736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> init [1,2,3] < 1297432737 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2] < 1297432741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it should be initWhile < 1297432753 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you ever get such conditions in UK btw? Snow blowing over road. So much that you can only see about half a meter in front of the car. < 1297432753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ' ' would work for a Data.ByteString.Char8 bytestring. < 1297432761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mine works on the abominable Char8 ByteStrings... which are the only ones that provide lines/unlines < 1297432762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1297432767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I envy you < 1297432774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The Char8 type is the same as the regular type. < 1297432783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So you can happily use Char8 (B8) functions on regular ByteStrings when you need to. < 1297432783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No it's not, it's Char vs Word8 < 1297432788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes it is. < 1297432791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or at least it types for me. < 1297432793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the ByteString type is the same < 1297432795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that < 1297432797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This might be an implementation detail, but it works :-P < 1297432845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrote to mycotmp3.tmp with o in linear text mode. < 1297432845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: o removed space prior to newline < 1297432845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: o removes spaces prior to newline-valued cells < 1297432845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: i misread or o miswrote < 1297432845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. But it's better than last time. < 1297432864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, do you expect there to be no trailing newline, or something of that sort? < 1297432872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1297432887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: o wrote EOL to EOF < 1297432896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1297432899 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1297432912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm it doesn't tell how it miswrote/misread? < 1297432918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not here. < 1297432920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :textify = B8.unlines . filter (/= empty) . map (fst . B.spanEnd (== space)) . B8.lines < 1297432921 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, of course not. It is mycology < 1297432921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might work. < 1297432925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, I only want to strip them off at the end. < 1297432930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initsWhile, in other words. < 1297432932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1297432949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's much more of a pain to preserve info and print stuff out in Befunge than it is in your interpreter < 1297432981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When working on CCBI I practically ignore Mycology's BAD info other than seeing what instruction it's testing < 1297433000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah indeed. But sometimes knowing what you expected would be nice. It isn't always obvious. < 1297433009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The problem is that everyone who doesn't have fancy-super-debuggers because they're trying to get compliance first has a bit of a problem :-P < 1297433013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'm complaining < 1297433027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who writes over 100K of comprehensive Befunge-98 test suite has done enough for the world already :P < 1297433031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You don't need a fancy-super-debugger, you just need the ability to put traceShow in the right function < 1297433032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps more than they should have.) < 1297433041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That counts as fancy-super-debugger in my book. < 1297433049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have that ability :-P < 1297433066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, but I do it by printing tuples with ridiculous first values so they stand out :-P < 1297433078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I actually think I change ccbi to print a trace in the same format as cfunge -t does and then diffed at one point. That was for some threading stuff though. IIRC that one was a bug in mycology and ccbi. Was quite long ago. < 1297433088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Nokia will partner with Microsoft and use Windows Phone" < 1297433093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ha ha, Finnish Nokia losers < 1297433096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch < 1297433105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The biggest impact will be to Finland's economy as Nokia is preparing to lay off thousands of workers." Joy < 1297433107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Windows is an improvement over Symbian < 1297433110 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297433115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy going back to the ice age where you belong, dirty Finns! < 1297433124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is what happens when Nokia collapses, I'm told.) < 1297433126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, meego looked good < 1297433136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MeeGo looked crap < 1297433142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might've been better but it's still an improvement over what they have < 1297433155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine actually wanting to use it... more importantly, I don't see how it could work on a tiny device. < 1297433157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it might even be a good business move; in case you didn't know, there's a lot of Windows machines out there :-P < 1297433170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this: < 1297433171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Meego_Architecture.jpg < 1297433174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the very image of brain damage. < 1297433188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I do like how they've lumped huge chunks of Linux into the tiny bottom box. < 1297433200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently consider X11 on the same level as device sync and single sign-on. < 1297433213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wait, they used X? Thank god nobody uses it.) < 1297433224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And it might even be a good business move; in case you didn't know, there's a lot of Windows machines out there :-P < 1297433228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Windows != Windows Phone. :p < 1297433234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1297433237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Phone talks to Windows < 1297433244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So do other phones. < 1297433247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same way iOS talks to OS X < 1297433254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOS talks to Windows too :-P < 1297433256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine they'll be much more synergistic < 1297433266 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is the very image of brain damage. <-- what in specific? It looks rather complex... < 1297433268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just said synergistic wrt a business strategy, congrats < 1297433270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Precisely < 1297433272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you use hotmail and the works, whatever < 1297433279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotmail? ITYM WINDOWS LIVE MAIL < 1297433311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's Windows Live Hotmail which I can abbreviate to Hotmail if I so choose < 1297433318 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I think it might be the picture that is brain damaged. "3D Graphics" is listed twice in "Visual Svcs" < 1297433347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, synergistic wrt software, not the strategy :-P < 1297433357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still said synergistic :-) < 1297433367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was renamed to Windows Live Mail, but they quickly had to change it to Windows Live Hotmail on the basis that their customers wanted hotmail, not just ordinary mail < 1297433369 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in generally that image looks rather unprofessional. What with the text going outside boxes and so on < 1297433371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you find the word offensive that's your problem < 1297433373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *groan* < 1297433380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not offensive, just meaningless < 1297433388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't blame Microsoft for that sort of thing, but I can definitely blame their customers < 1297433406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, Microsoft's business model - marketing to idiots - is probably a pretty good one < 1297433434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wish Microsoft would just, for once, cater to second-stupidest people out there and disregard the absolute stupidest. < 1297433455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why throw away money < 1297433476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because the rest of us have to deal with the result < 1297433476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps; but the absolute stupidest are more likely to spend money on things they don't actually need < 1297433482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what would the stupidest do. Possibly annoy other people than microsoft instead? Which sounds worse. < 1297433493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been in a computer shop where the salesman convinced someone who clearly didn't need Office - and probably not any other office suite either - to buy it < 1297433497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The result being hotmail instead of mail? I don't mind much :-P < 1297433518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IT WOULD BE A START < 1297433568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as if the customers didn't realise that people trying to sell them things generally don't have their best interests in mind < 1297433623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have thought long and hard* about this matter and have concluded that most people are, in fact, dumb as bricks. < 1297433626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not really < 1297433636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't see any other explanation :-P < 1297433669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I tend not to meet really really stupid people much < 1297433678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the methods I use to meet and virtual-meet people < 1297433687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not stupid then at leats gullible < 1297433688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*least < 1297433694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, gullible I can believe < 1297433695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not very critically-minded < 1297433696 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: perhaps; but the absolute stupidest are more likely to spend money on things they don't actually need <-- you know what < 1297433708 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it "windows live mail" and then offer "hotmail" as an upgrade < 1297433709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really surprising considering the state of the school system < 1297433718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You're hired. < 1297433722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn up in Redmond tomorrow. < 1297433738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it seems the ClearBF people turned up and added details about the lang < 1297433749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed, it's ... odd < 1297433752 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change logo, add possibly one or two features so somewhat less stupid people can't complain about you selling nothing < 1297433752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I almost thought it was spam < 1297433753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like PEBBLE, except useless < 1297433755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but took a second use < 1297433757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*second look < 1297433767 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, $2 / month or such for it? < 1297433790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ingenious < 1297433797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ingenious < 1297433806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and then just team up with ISPs < 1297433806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvious extra feature is to remove the ads in the sig space < 1297433810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to try and get people to buy it when they sign up < 1297433814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god, it would make millions < 1297433824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I bet sufficiently stupid people like them < 1297433825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately, you have to be Microsoft to make it work < 1297433828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: say, they click them on other people's emails < 1297433832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they interest them < 1297433841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could be an actual useful one. No idea how much money they make from the ads. But price it after that I guess < 1297433852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt it's $2/month per user < 1297433853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better: < 1297433862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, less or more? < 1297433863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have it advertise that the person is a VIP hotmail user < 1297433864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1297433868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less I guess < 1297433868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt it's that much < 1297433871 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1297433876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This person uses Hotmail, the email service for [...]. Do you? http://hotmail.com/" < 1297433883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where [...] is some self-congratulatory bullshit < 1297433887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the ad with that < 1297433904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or change it to an "upgrade to" advert if the email they're sending to is @live.com < 1297433906 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and offer veryhotmail for $3 / month that lets you turn that off? < 1297433913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotmail no longer sends that < 1297433915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sizzlingmail < 1297433925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OKAY, HOTMAIL USER < 1297433926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah, they did last I checked, but that was a couple of years ago < 1297433939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's relatively recent < 1297433955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember (or might not even know) when exactly < 1297433964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worth noting that hotmail/live.com blocks emails from yahoo.com addresses < 1297433976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I discovered that one by accident, but it was easy enough to confirm < 1297433984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/really/? < 1297433988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _very_ much doubt that < 1297433989 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how strange < 1297433995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it might have been a temporary spat < 1297433998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Yahoo is still pretty damn commonly used < 1297434018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, I ended up in charge of an existing mailing list that had previously been run by someone else < 1297434021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Yahoo! Groups < 1297434036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and emails sent to hotmail addresses from it didn't work < 1297434052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems more like yahoo blocking hotmail if anything < 1297434100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what sort of spam mail you get to emails under the .ng domain. < 1297434106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's Nigeria) < 1297434125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, i'm just this dude < 1297434127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i hear you're a prince < 1297434133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and want to give me lots of money, if i give you some < 1297434140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i give you $2 < 1297434145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think you could give me $1,000,000? < 1297434147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sincerely, < 1297434149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :john smith smithson < 1297434152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few quick searches imply it was a case of hotmail blocking yahoo, but only april-june 2007 < 1297434153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that ^ < 1297434156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably it doesn't happen any more < 1297434162 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ha. Nice reversing of sum < 1297434194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have to ask for the $1,000,000 first < 1297434208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right < 1297434210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you're, umm, advance-fee defrauding yourself, in case the other person just never sends the million < 1297434230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: insert "THAT'S THE JOKE" macro < 1297434250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought the joke was what Vorpal pointed out < 1297434265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think the joke was that the *whole* thing was reversed < 1297434294 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dude asking a prince, instead of the reverse. That is also part of the joke < 1297434332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like how you tend to call other people's jokes poor, but always end up being all "WHOOSH" when you tell a joke yourself < 1297434338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I like that too < 1297434345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, the money bit would work more like this: "I hear your uncle died last week, and you're having trouble moving the money, TEN BILLION POUNDS, to the UK. I'd be willing to pay your 10% processing fee in order for a 50% split of the resulting funds." < 1297434354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have a state-sanctioned monopoly on bad jokes, you see < 1297434363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *oerjan has < 1297434368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he's puns < 1297434377 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it would indeed not be inaccurate to say that elliott's behaviour is somewhat hypocritical. < 1297434386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see. That /would/ be the simplest explanation. < 1297434395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the case that double negatives don't not not not make you sound more not unneutral. < 1297434401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, ClearBF is actually sub-TC < 1297434410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so's Funge-98 < 1297434414 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah. That is UK only though. I have the one in Sweden. < 1297434432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way you can have bignum coordinates violates the spec (like efunge does) < 1297434435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, Funge-98 is a push-down automaton < 1297434439 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice that yet again when I update the report style, nobody showers me with gratitude. < 1297434440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because y requires you to push the number of bits < 1297434441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ingrates. < 1297434441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ClearBF's finite state < 1297434446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: we haven't looked at it yet < 1297434447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You updated it again? < 1297434454 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday :P < 1297434462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's amusing because people go "oh, Funge-98 lifted the restriction and it's TC now!!" < 1297434464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297434465 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297434470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: well, Funge-98 is a push-down automaton <-- err... I thought it was BSM? < 1297434473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's a reasonably small change < 1297434479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like BDSM < 1297434486 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1297434488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: looks the same :P < 1297434491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only for implementing it :P < 1297434492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think it /is/ TC < 1297434498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added the position >_< < 1297434501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the stack stack is infinite < 1297434503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1297434507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have to push stack stack length and stack length on stack < 1297434511 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah, it's a reasonably small change <-- what is it? I can't find it. < 1297434515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the junction of the top of the SOSS and the top of the TOSS as a zipper < 1297434526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's fine so long as you never call y < 1297434552 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, befunge-98 is TC if you allow bignum implementations like efunge. (Though of course efunge is not TC in practise either.) < 1297434555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no? < 1297434559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm < 1297434562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's not a case of "the existence of y means you can never make a change that would make y fail"; it's more "the specification of y means it can't manage certain possible states on the stack" < 1297434567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y should simply reflect in such cases < 1297434569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1297434576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y dictates the rest of the implementation < 1297434577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1297434584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's _system_ info < 1297434590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. information that exists in /every system/ < 1297434596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and y just _queries_ it < 1297434598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must already be there < 1297434624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is there, nothing about y implies that the information is restricted to the size of a stack element < 1297434627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the fact that y pushes it < 1297434629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just push infinity < 1297434639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the information is /there/, just y is incapable of pushing it, therefore should reflect < 1297434641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you need tagged cells, of course < 1297434651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think that's spec-compliant :P < 1297434666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it's a value that works transparently like infinity then I guess it would be allowed < 1297434691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: heh, are you arguing that there's no way from within standard Funge to determine that someone hasn't just pushed infinity on the stack? < 1297434693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ingenious < 1297434696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point is, regular Befunge-98 isn't TC because of Funge-space being relaxed, like people think it is :P < 1297434698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm not sure you can consistently handle cells with the value infinity < 1297434699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply push a value that is too huge for your program to ever detect it is not infinite < 1297434707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, it clearly doesn't have infinite fungespace < 1297434711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does have multiple stacks < 1297434716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graham's number or so < 1297434720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as in mathematically consistently < 1297434724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think there is, as such < 1297434732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity isn't inconsistent < 1297434733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some fingerprints can cause problems, of course < 1297434743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then take the limit of that behavior < 1297434744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, that's such an engineer way of thinking about it < 1297434747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed < 1297434749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, do you mean that < 1297434751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since fungespace is infinite < 1297434759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there's a value and a value+1 that no Funge-98 program can distinguish? < 1297434762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1297434764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since fungespace is finite < 1297434765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there's a value and a value+1 that no Funge-98 program can distinguish? < 1297434766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not as such. But if you aren't careful in how you handle it you can get issues. Besides what infinity is it? Aleph-zero? < 1297434768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you have to figure out what to do about infinity-infinity and infinity/infinity < 1297434771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if so, that's genius < 1297434772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that no < 1297434775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fungespace coords < 1297434777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about doing it Feather-style: just push 8 or something, if any other value in the program ever end up becoming more just go back in time and increase the number you pushed < 1297434779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have the same possible range as cells < 1297434784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no such value exists oerjan :( < 1297434797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Aleph-null is a cardinality, not relevant here < 1297434800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That'd work TRDS-style if it weren't for the fact that there's I/O < 1297434808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm true < 1297434820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what i'm really saying is that _if_ you make things actually infinite you can do it in such a way that no befunge program can prove you did it < 1297434827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1297434832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but howso < 1297434835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but how < 1297434838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I/O doesn't fit well into Feather's worldview < 1297434865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the world doesn't < 1297434867 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Some fingerprints might interact badly with it. Is there any pow() for non-floating point in fingerprints? < 1297434877 0 :ultra1!~mipsel@81-64-174-246.rev.numericable.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297434896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to flood 12 lines for their sheer ugly insanity, please forgive me: < 1297434897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1297434897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Just saying that this isn't Feather, which may complicate things < 1297434900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergeByteString :: Bool -> ByteString -> FungeSpace -> Vector -> (Vector, FungeSpace) < 1297434900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergeByteString is2D s (FungeSpace m minXY maxXY rowPop colPop) offset@(ox,oy) = ((bx,by),FungeSpace m' (min offset minXY) (max (bx-1,by-1) maxXY) rp cp) < 1297434900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where ((_,by),m',rp,cp,_,bx) = B.foldl' byte ((ox,oy),m,rowPop,colPop,False,0) s < 1297434900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : byte (p@(x,y),!m,!rp,!cp,lastWasCR,!biggestX) w < 1297434900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | is2D && (w == ff || (w == lf && lastWasCR)) = (p, m, rp, cp, False, biggestX) < 1297434902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | is2D && (w == cr || w == lf) = ((ox,y+1), m, rp, cp, w == cr, biggestX) < 1297434904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | w == space = ((x+1,y), m, rp, cp, False, max (x+1) biggestX) < 1297434906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = ((x+1,y), Map.insert p (fromIntegral w) m, if Map.findWithDefault space p m == space then modm (+1) y rp else rp, if Map.findWithDefault space p m == space then modm (+1) x cp else cp, False, max (x+1) biggestX) < 1297434912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where modm f = Map.alter (\x -> < 1297434913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the befunge program cannot prove you didn't just choose a finite number too large to distinguish during the lifetime of the universe. since you are _actually_ doing it infinite, this still applies if the estimate for universe lifetime increases (as long as not infinite) < 1297434914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case f (maybe 0 id x) of < 1297434916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 -> Nothing < 1297434918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x' -> Just x') < 1297434919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1297434920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1297434922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: Make be not hideous < 1297434924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sprunge.us works too < 1297434928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lifetime of the universe? please, we're not restrained by such petty constraints < 1297434931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: EVERYONE HAD TO SEE THAT. < 1297434937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it easily can: just run :- on it < 1297434950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity-infinity can be 0 :P < 1297434950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you end up with 0 if it pushed Graham's Number, and NaN if it's an actual infinity < 1297434958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity-infinity can be 0 :P < 1297434960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There is such a pow(), in FIXP IIRC, slowdown.b98 uses it < 1297434961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :1+- then < 1297434970 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, NaN only if floating point surely? < 1297434972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1297434980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or even just < 1297434983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::` < 1297434991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1297434993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously infinity=infinity < 1297434994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1297434999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1+`...it's infinity... < 1297435019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you could have a stack of infinities :) < 1297435023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infinity+1 -> infinity+1 < 1297435032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is that infinity == infinity+1 < 1297435035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, now I'm not sure what sort of infinity we use, so what would 10^infinity do in that case? < 1297435040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but you could make that not be the case < 1297435049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^infinity = infinity < 1297435050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas A(G_64,G_64) != A(G_64,G_64)+1 < 1297435059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make infinity+1 be a distinct value < 1297435074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that contradicts typical mathematical theory < 1297435078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nope, 10^infinity = 10^infinity < 1297435081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just store it algebraically < 1297435108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eh? lim n 10^n = infinity, surely? < 1297435134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's a different infinity, the cardinality of reals rather than the cardinality of ints < 1297435148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if we're talking about cardinalities < 1297435151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you want to choose a hyperreal number of some sort < 1297435168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we're going to reinvent ordinals soon < 1297435173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that has the 1+infinity vs infinity+1 problem < 1297435178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ordinals are inadequate for this < 1297435184 0 :ultra1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c est quoi ce charabbia < 1297435188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORDINALS ARE INADEQUATE. WE NEED MORE INFINITY!! < 1297435191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultra1: quoi! < 1297435203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the cardinality of the set of all ordinals btw? < 1297435206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultra1: esteda moude emt ablee? < 1297435213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a number that can give answers to all your questions as if it were finite, but actually isn't < 1297435214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is no set of all ordinals, surely you know that < 1297435221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a set is inconsistent < 1297435233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hyperreals fit that < 1297435242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh indeed < 1297435261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all the way down to #20? D-8 < 1297435308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookAhead < 1297435309 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `lookAhead' < 1297435348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ['0'..'9'] < 1297435349 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "0123456789" < 1297435353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can & read an integer with - in front of it? < 1297435358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. negative :P < 1297435406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle hLookAhead < 1297435407 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO hLookAhead :: Handle -> IO Char < 1297435434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1297435437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope < 1297435443 0 :ultra1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297435443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Really? < 1297435445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1297435448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yep < 1297435461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, indeed. "Nice". < 1297435725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What does mycouser do between saying "UNDEF: got (char you entered) which is hopefully correct." and saying "All done checking the following instructions: / % & ~"? < 1297435730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It waits on a newline for me. < 1297435815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust raping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+.)*144+>]+>[(-.)*144->]->)*11 < 1297435852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's warrior names get steadily more classy. < 1297435860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nose < 1297435861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But invariably turtle-oriented. < 1297435866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It reads another char, can't remember why. < 1297435876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ah. < 1297435895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please input a number: UNDEF: got 3 which is hopefully correct. < 1297435895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please input a character: UNDEF: got 120 'x' which is hopefully correct. < 1297435895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiro: : hGetChar: end of file < 1297435897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1297435900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be reflecting. < 1297435905 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it swallows newline iirc < 1297435908 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no? < 1297435966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle hIsEOF < 1297435966 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO hIsEOF :: Handle -> IO Bool < 1297435986 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435986 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435987 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435988 0 :cheater-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435988 0 :miekko!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435988 0 :Herobrine!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435988 0 :Mannerisky!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435989 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435990 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435990 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435990 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435991 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435992 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435992 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435992 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435993 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435993 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435994 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435995 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435995 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297435995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297436001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yay you're still here < 1297436005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1297436008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297436010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I use it < 1297436017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but more importantly, I use ioReflect < 1297436022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we're on the same server < 1297436030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should just be _reflecting_ < 1297436032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than complaining < 1297436039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless isEOF doesn't throw an exception... < 1297436048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does error "foo" count as an IOException? < 1297436051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1297436062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope not, since that would fuck up some of my "wtf?" error prints :D < 1297436073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, although you _can_ catch it < 1297436091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the more general exception catching < 1297436101 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297436103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I use Control.Exception, which is probably that < 1297436104 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_raping_turtle: 30.0 < 1297436119 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-187.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1297436203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.IO; main = hGetChar >>= print < 1297436225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that won't really print anything < 1297436271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you want to only catch IOExceptions, you have to restrict it i think... < 1297436275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I do < 1297436296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ioReflect :: IO a -> Shiro a < 1297436296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioReflect action = do < 1297436297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : st <- get < 1297436297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : io action `catchShiro` < 1297436297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \(e::IOException) -> do < 1297436298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : io . hPutStrLn stderr $ "*** [Reflecting on IO exception: " ++ show e ++ "]" < 1297436300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : throw (ShiroIOException st) < 1297436304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(print is just for dbeugging) < 1297436402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but er < 1297436407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eof <- isEOF < 1297436407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if eof then return i else do < 1297436414 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :cheater-!~cheater@e181131235.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-123.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@208.69.183.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-10-216.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :Mannerisky!~mannerisk@71-38-55-113.frgo.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :tswett!ihope@128.12.169.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :miekko!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :Herobrine!~Herobrine@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436414 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to get more direct than that kind of checking :) < 1297436421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1297436432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's read with the other instruction < 1297436433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh which ghci < 1297436433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 30.0 for the raping turtle btw < 1297436441 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1297436448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think HackEgo has ghc < 1297436454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh which ghci < 1297436459 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/ghci < 1297436464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, there's quite a renaissance of slow-rush programs in BF Joust < 1297436467 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1297436470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that would be `run < 1297436471 0 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235033089.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which ghci < 1297436476 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1297436562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm my catch should be working actually < 1297436578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioReflect works other places? < 1297436594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1297436618 0 :tswett_!ihope@thay.Stanford.EDU JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436620 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297436621 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297436621 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297436621 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1297436622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can you show the actual use case which isn't working? < 1297436623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1297436624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not again < 1297436632 0 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant_, not sure if this got through last time: < 1297436647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, it swallows newline iirc < 1297436648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, no? < 1297436651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did < 1297436657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: coreIns '~' = io (hFlush stdout) >> (push . fromIntegral . ord =<< io getChar) < 1297436658 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well to us, but to him I meant < 1297436662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose hFlush could be failing :) < 1297436667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297436670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"io getChar" < 1297436672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we two were on the same side of the split. He wasn't :P < 1297436672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurrrrr < 1297436677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: o rite < 1297436680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297436702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and that's all wrapped inside ioReflect? < 1297436702 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant_, anyway I'm pretty sure mycouser wants to eat a newline there. < 1297436711 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436711 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436711 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436711 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1297436718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no :D < 1297436719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ioReflect is like io except reflecting < 1297436719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just forgot to use it < 1297436719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed < 1297436723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1297436731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: seems pointless < 1297436735 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1297436736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes choosing \n as the character odd :) < 1297436740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quintopia? < 1297436743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why < 1297436747 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check your pms < 1297436750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well why read the newline? < 1297436752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get one < 1297436755 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1297436756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you implement STRN it will test it's input function afterwards < 1297436759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably PMed me during the netsplit and it got lost as a result < 1297436761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again < 1297436765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same for BASE iirc < 1297436772 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so it would mess up those tests < 1297436772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: stop CONSPIRING < 1297436777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well true < 1297436783 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1297436785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm STRN seems easy < 1297436793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "input a string" does MKRY mean "line" or what :) < 1297436827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what I do is give the rest of the input line buffer as the result of that (unless it is empty in which case I read a line) < 1297436847 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust raping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([([+)*144(])*144+>]+>[([-)*144(])*144->]->)*11 < 1297436849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I forgot if I strip away the trailing \n or not < 1297436857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : check your pms <-- THAT'S VERY INSENSITIVE TO THE WOMEN HERE < 1297436862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all zero of them < 1297436873 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_raping_turtle: 13.1 < 1297436877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly, Herobrine is obviously female < 1297436877 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME FAILS < 1297436885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1297436885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... what? < 1297436895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: THAT'S VERY INSENSITIVE TO HEROBRINE < 1297436905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Vorpal, even more obviously female! < 1297436909 0 :tswett!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297436910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297436914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no :P < 1297436916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i have _some_ doubts about that. < 1297436929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is there something wrong with that? do you feel _accused_? are you SEXIST? < 1297436934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvida norlander < 1297436937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why? if I said e was male you wouldn't object!! < 1297436939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sexism! < 1297436941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust raping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*112([+)*32(])*32+>]+>[(-)*112([-)*32(])*32->]->)*11 < 1297436941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :institutionalised sexism! < 1297436944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm leaving forever -> < 1297436962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have some conflicting information < 1297436970 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_raping_turtle: 12.1 < 1297436976 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssssssssssssssssssssss < 1297436983 0 :Deewiant_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Deewiant < 1297437021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust raping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*120([+)*16(])*16+>]+>[(+)*120([+)*16(])*16->]->)*11 < 1297437038 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is that the verb or the adjective in that program name? < 1297437046 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_raping_turtle: 12.8 < 1297437052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude you're pushing me below defend13, don't do that < 1297437053 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adjective. < 1297437055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That henk guy that isn't rcfunge or catseye or glfunge, where are the specs for those < 1297437060 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like {snapping,crapping,rapping} < 1297437093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1297437096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I SENSE A LACK OF SHORT VOWEL < 1297437099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raping is a verb? < 1297437110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's an adjective < 1297437123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying, how could it not be adjective < 1297437124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a participle, to be precise, the adjective form of a verb < 1297437125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the seed of rape < 1297437130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *groan* < 1297437130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, well raping_turtle is a fail regardless :P < 1297437132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I misread that word as another one. < 1297437135 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame elliott < 1297437136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, it's a noun < 1297437146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth can you misread "raping" < 1297437147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's also a gerund spelt the same way, derived from the same verb < 1297437153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it cannot get the speed up < 1297437166 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't understand why this does so much worse than rapping_turtle .... < 1297437167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you talked about sexism. I misread it as "rapeing" < 1297437176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rapeing isn't a word. < 1297437180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let alone an adjective or a verb. < 1297437189 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297437198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, "raping" means what you think "rapeing" means :P < 1297437231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SENSE THE CURRENT BFJOUST NAMING CONVENTIONS DO NOT REFLECT WELL ON THIS COMMUNITY < 1297437237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: [[Rc/Funge-98 is the official implementation of these fingerprints. When a behavior is not specified in these specs, the way that Rc/Funge-98 operates is the correct behavior]] < 1297437244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: SPECIFIED SEGFAULTS < 1297437248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *GREGOR'S CURRENT < 1297437254 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*120(+.)*16(-.)*16>]+>[(+)*120(+.)*16(-.)*16>]->)*11 < 1297437256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :-P < 1297437263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. But then follows that "to rape" gives that "raping"? < 1297437269 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_fapping_turtle: 34.1 < 1297437271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What? < 1297437271 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did that turn it into an adjective? < 1297437282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're very confused about how the English language works < 1297437290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not anywhere AFAICT: mirror http://tar.us.to:1234/ < 1297437310 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*121(+.)*14(-.)*14>]+>[(+)*121(+.)*14(-.)*14>]->)*11 < 1297437322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't the -ing form of a verb still a verb? < 1297437325 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_fapping_turtle: 34.1 < 1297437345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+)*124(+.)*8(-.)*4>]+>[(+)*124(+.)*8(-.)*4>]->)*11 < 1297437352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: verbs generally have two -ing forms, one of which is an adjective (present participle), and the other of which is a noun (gerund) < 1297437357 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_fapping_turtle: 35.3 < 1297437362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foobar. < 1297437365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :present participles basically always end -ing; gerunds sometimes end -ion instead < 1297437387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. verb "subscribe" -> participle "subscribing", gerund "subscription") < 1297437416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then "raping turtle" could mean either "the act of raping a turtle" or "a turtle that rapes "? < 1297437420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subscription is a gerund? i thought it was latin. < 1297437430 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1297437433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only the second < 1297437437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1297437442 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1297437444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRY: "Addresses used by this extension are absolute, the storage offset does NOT apply to these functions." < 1297437445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first would have the words the other way round, "turtle raping" < 1297437447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why < 1297437451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because English is often word-order-sensitive < 1297437474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: gerunds come up more in Latin than English, for whatever reason < 1297437488 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(-.)*8(+)*112(+.)*16>]+>[(-.)*8(+)*112(+.)*16>]->)*11 < 1297437499 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_fapping_turtle: 3.6 < 1297437502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, nonsensual intercourse with testudines < 1297437504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1297437504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... I'm pretty sure that other order does occur. Mostly in titles. (Not that specific example of though) < 1297437508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nonconsensual < 1297437524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly they are not correct though < 1297437525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not particularly sensual either < 1297437535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: NCRS is the sane one and TERM the insane one right? < 1297437545 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, neither is completely sane < 1297437551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More-sanerer < 1297437558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not really. < 1297437570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't CCBI do NCRS and not TERM or something < 1297437571 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't know one was saner than the other either < 1297437607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I believe that was the case for ccbi1. Or it did TERM only on windows or something like that < 1297437616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI1 did TERM only on Windows, yes < 1297437645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ccbi2 does it on both? < 1297437666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1297437674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway TERM isn't insane. It is just cursor positioning mostly. < 1297437684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(-..)*8(+)*112(+..)*16+>]+>[(-..)*8(+)*112(+..)*16->]->)*11 < 1297437685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle String -> CString < 1297437686 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.C.String newCAString :: String -> IO CString < 1297437686 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.C.String newCString :: String -> IO CString < 1297437686 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude read :: Read a => String -> a < 1297437695 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_fapping_turtle: 3.6 < 1297437776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./ffitest < 1297437776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1297437776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot < 1297437786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE ForeignFunctionInterface #-} < 1297437787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import Foreign.C < 1297437787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign import ccall "puts" c_puts :: CString -> IO () < 1297437787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main :: IO () < 1297437787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = c_puts =<< newCAString "Hello, world!" < 1297437799 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(-.)*8(+)*128(+.)*16+>]+>[(-.)*8(+)*128(+.)*16->]->)*11 < 1297437802 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad math is bad < 1297437811 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_fapping_turtle: 25.0 < 1297437842 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I'm above defend13 again < 1297437845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fapping_turtle -(>+>-)*4>([(+.)*256+>]+>[(+.)*120(+.)*16->]->)*11 < 1297437856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna kill fapping_turtle soon :P < 1297437861 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_fapping_turtle: 16.0 < 1297437871 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fapping_turtle < < 1297437874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust raping_turtle < < 1297437880 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_fapping_turtle: 0.0 < 1297437888 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_raping_turtle: 0.0 < 1297438017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed that I can't do better without actually looking into other code and targeting specific contenders :( < 1297438254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor raping turtle. < 1297438281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Here's some fun for you: < 1297438283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Some C functions are actually defined by a CPP header file to be a C macro. Suppose you foreign import such a "function", thus: < 1297438283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign import foo :: Int -> IO Int < 1297438283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'll get the right thing if you compile using -fvia-C, provided you cause the right header files to be included. But the native code generator knows nothing of CPP mcros, so it will generate a call to a non-existent C function "foo". In effect, the FFI is defined to interface to the C ABI rather than the C API; it doesn't take account of CPP magic.]] < 1297438298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I could do ncurses without a C wrapper, iff I use the right code generator :-P < 1297438350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses is full of macros < 1297438365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1297438375 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does ccbi manage it? < 1297438383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a C wrapper I believe < 1297438417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./ffitest < 1297438417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1297438421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell: LANGUAGE OF SAFETY < 1297438488 0 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1297438500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, almost works now \o/ < 1297438501 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                        | < 1297438501 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                       /| < 1297438550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1297438551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Unsafe.Coerce Data.ByteString> (unsafeCoerce 42 :: ByteString) < 1297438551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package bytestring-0.9.1.5 ... linking ... done. < 1297438551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Segmentation fault < 1297438556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language of safety, indeed! < 1297438562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: INDEED < 1297438577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, I now have env(1) written in hideously-unsafe Haskell. < 1297438604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you don't have Unsafe.Coerce imported by your .ghci? < 1297438608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :-D < 1297438617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses the environ variable, and C's puts. < 1297438628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I might've but evidently not < 1297438632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's FAST (0.006 seconds, that's almost as fast as cfunge running Mycology) < 1297438638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You actually use unsafeCoerce? :-P < 1297438638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::m +Control.Applicative Control.Arrow Control.Monad Control.Monad.Loops Data.Char Data.Either Data.Function Data.Functor Data.List Data.List.Split Data.Maybe Data.Monoid Data.Ord Numeric Text.Printf < 1297438649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Numeric" :x < 1297438652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S NOT HIERARCHICAL < 1297438663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no more hierarchical version of it < 1297438672 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle showIntAtBase < 1297438672 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numeric showIntAtBase :: Integral a => a -> (Int -> Char) -> a -> ShowS < 1297438689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1297438717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we thus have proved that ByteStrings are not the Answer. < 1297438738 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What the hell does wireless_frownie DO? < 1297438778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Numeric and Foreign, iirc < 1297438788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1297438796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no hierarchy < 1297438870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well Foreign has a hierarchy underneath it < 1297438878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numeric should be Data.Numeric really < 1297438913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Foreign stole my peek and poke names :( < 1297438961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showIntAtBase 13 intToDigit (6*9) "" < 1297438962 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "42" < 1297438966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/NjCI HOW TO PROGMA IN C < 1297438969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY < 1297438970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CSKELL < 1297439113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MANDATORY_PATH=/usr/share/gconf/gnome.mandatory.path < 1297439114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated < 1297439114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting environment variables... < 1297439182 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-94.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297439218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does Windows have putenv()? < 1297439240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This POSIX function is deprecated beginning in Visual C++ 2005. Use the ISO C++ conformant _putenv or security-enhanced _putenv_s instead." < 1297439243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does < 1297439243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in theory, yes. < 1297439255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Security-enhanced. Heh. < 1297439256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not setenv < 1297439261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the environ variable, right? < 1297439264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1297439269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You sure? >_< < 1297439271 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1297439284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WELL, I'll just make EVAR POSIX-only like it is now. < 1297439309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Microsoft have deprecated quite a lot of the C89 libraries < 1297439331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing them with _s versions which take (buffer, buffersize) pairs rather than just buffers < 1297439344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't suppose 0"oof"P can remove the environment variable "foo"? :-P < 1297439347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this becomes a little ridiculous in the case of functions that /already/ took the buffer size as input < 1297439351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does say the argument is of the form foo=bar < 1297439354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess that's fine < 1297439382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's a case of Microsoft missing the point of C < 1297439384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The C1x "bounds-checking interfaces" thing has _s functions that are quite similar. < 1297439401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm < 1297439429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember Microsoft suggested their _s functions to the C committee, and they rejected them in favour of something else < 1297439469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle CString -> IO String < 1297439469 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.C.String peekCAString :: CString -> IO String < 1297439470 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.C.String peekCString :: CString -> IO String < 1297439470 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude show :: Show a => a -> String < 1297439510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C1x seems pretty crap so far :) < 1297439623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody pastebin an explanation of the no-expansion algorithms for BFJoust. < 1297439640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure they're exactly the same; but similar. And even those that already took a size (say memcpy) do extra checking (for NULLs and such) and fail in a bit more safe fashion than a segfault. < 1297439711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Food now. ->) < 1297439767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, I'm implementing lance. < 1297439771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Stop ruining my fun >_< < 1297439784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What I'm trying to make is in no way competition for lance. It is strictly complementary. < 1297439793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But that's the only thing lance has :P < 1297439805 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am not making a replacement for egojoust. < 1297439808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask oerjan I guess, he generalised it today/yesterday. < 1297439816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU ARE GRANTED PERMISSION THIS ONE TIME < 1297439853 0 :Minizours!~alex-pc@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-111-204.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297439857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:54:34 elliott: basically ( pushes starting count on the stack, { iterates back to matching ( or pops, } pushes like (, and ) iterates or pops < 1297439857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:55:13 and provided [] matches inside () and inside {} like the rule is supposedly already, it should all work < 1297439857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:56:05 hm i guess } and ) need to count the reverse way of ( and { < 1297439858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^ < 1297439868 0 :Minizours!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1297439879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that way, * is the same as % after a (), and {} just become freaky-deaky virtual 0-tick instructions < 1297439903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not quite: { needs to look forwards to the % after the ) matching the containing ( < 1297439907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to know what the repeat count is < 1297439908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'm convinced about [], in particular with respect to non-matching []s in ()s. < 1297439919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-matching []s in ()s is evil and should be banned. < 1297439925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-matching []s in ()s are disallowed by the spec as you're supposed to use ({}) instead < 1297439926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why does defend13 have a *-160? < 1297439936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't? < 1297439942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oerjan said it did. < 1297439944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that defend14. < 1297439973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't duplicate anything a negative number of times < 1297439983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do < 1297439986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've just forgotten where < 1297439988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or oerjan is a liar < 1297439989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297439997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, just checked < 1297440008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicating something a negative number of times would make no sense anyway < 1297440014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO I HEAR THIS MUBARAK PERSON STEPPED DOWN, just trying to keep #esoteric ON TOP OF CURRENT EVENTS, like we always are < 1297440018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's the same as *100000 in egojoust < 1297440021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you _do_ do it! < 1297440032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is infallible < 1297440041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just ran control-F over defend14's source < 1297440048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and defend13 as well < 1297440049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no *- there < 1297440053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.02.10:13:15:59 so why does ais523_defend9 contain *-160 twice... < 1297440054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.02.10:13:22:34 elliott: and there are two *-160, one containing exactly one [ and one containing exactly one ], so the match even if it's interpreted as 10000 :D < 1297440070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you didn't say defend9! < 1297440077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1297440077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: <elliott> You do < 1297440078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> You've just forgotten where < 1297440082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I don't remember which contestant it was :P < 1297440083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: **10000 < 1297440092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm really? < 1297440093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that looks like a bug in defend9.pl < 1297440094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1297440099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the cycle count is 100000 < 1297440100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in case you didn't guess, defend9 is machine-generated) < 1297440155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe if you fixed it it'd do well :D < 1297440165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, the code that bit's in is unlikely to ever run < 1297440171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with the current hill < 1297440176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it detects a strategy nobody uses < 1297440190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What does EgoJoust do for a tie, not change the return value? < 1297440210 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The return value is WINS - LOSSES. Is a tie a win or a loss? :P < 1297440219 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The answer is "no" :P ) < 1297440257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1297440257 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1297440260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1297440261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!info < 1297440262 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null < 1297440280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Gregor, does that codu.org email forward to Hotmail :-p < 1297440281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:-P < 1297440288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... no. < 1297440290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The INSULT < 1297440293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The OUTRAGE < 1297440334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you notice my comment that (({{}})%)% also makes sense and is efficient? < 1297440352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why LANCE, the enterprise BF Joust referee, will support it < 1297440362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, but that's interesting < 1297440448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: erm really? <-- really. if (times < 0 || times > 10000) times = 10000; < 1297440453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1297440459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid OOM presumably < 1297440463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a problem with LANCE < 1297440510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: however it helps nothing with people doing (()*10000)*10000 < 1297440554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1297440561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust slug ((.)*-1)*-1 < 1297440569 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297440575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297440575 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297440577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SHEESH < 1297440580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1297440589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh it's actually running semi-quickly < 1297440589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1297440592 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_slug: 10.0 < 1297440593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only expands if there's no [ in it < 1297440601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust slug (([)*-1)*-1((])*-1)*-1 < 1297440611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rule_of_nine >(>+[[<](>)*9((-)*64[-]>)*21])*30 < 1297440616 0 :PH|lazytypist!52848b9c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.132.139.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297440618 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297440626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, an ais523 program name that isn't [program style][number] < 1297440633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: many of mine aren't like that < 1297440634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (The answer is "no" :P ) <-- although "both" would be equivalent < 1297440636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you the 523rd ais program? < 1297440643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, that is [program style][number] if you think about it < 1297440653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you kill slug so I actually get a result before the end of the universe? < 1297440653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the ninth rule_of program? :-) < 1297440663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm they run simultaneously < 1297440665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/breakdown.txt < 1297440685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect it to do too well; the strategy is reasonable, but that implementation isn't advanced enough < 1297440688 0 :PH|lazytypist!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1297440689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, they run in alphabetical order < 1297440696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there'll be a few of mine, then a few of yours < 1297440707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be able to get all my runs in unless you kill yours < 1297440726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll wait until it stops running yours < 1297440731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because i want to see what will happen >_> < 1297440745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that programs have no business being more than four megabytes, sets that as static limit < 1297440747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday: Mubarak refuses to step down. Today: Mubarak flees from Cairo and steps down. < 1297440768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant_sloth.bfjoust vs ais523_rule_of_nine.bfjoust: <<<<<<>>>>>>>><<<<<<< <>>><<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> <>>><<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<>>>>>>>><<<<<<< Tie < 1297440771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... bizarre < 1297440785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rare but not unheard of :-P < 1297440814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule_of_nine is not doing well :P < 1297440816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you meant something about the specific <> patterns < 1297440823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet slug beats it < 1297440844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1297440850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not advanced enough < 1297440854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: btw that bug i mentioned could be fixed by changing prog.bufused = prog.bufused - llen - 2 + temp.bufused; into prog.bufused = prog.bufused - end + i - 1 + temp.bufused , i think < 1297440855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, slug does beat it < 1297440878 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: TBH, I'm kinda hoping elliott replaces egojoust outright X-P < 1297440884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what rule_of_nine needs is to waste time, preferably by setting large decoys < 1297440888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's what I'm coding right now :P < 1297440919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DINK, /* + */ < 1297440919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DONK, /* - */ < 1297440919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FRTH, /* > */ < 1297440919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BACK, /* < */ < 1297440919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WAIT, /* . */ < 1297440920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LOOP, /* [ */ < 1297440922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : POOL, /* ] */ < 1297440924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone rename FRTH < 1297440929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my other operations fit into four chars nicely < 1297440944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORE < 1297440985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer "ADVANCE" "RETREAT" modifications, because it's not really > all the time < 1297440990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can go left if you're the right player etc. < 1297441000 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RITE / LEFT < 1297441004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's best described as "towards enemy flag", "towards own flag" < 1297441018 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: stuff < 1297441028 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1297441060 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume you're asking about the mess o' [+? < 1297441074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using such a command while on your own or enemy's flag means that you collide with the flag and die from concussion < 1297441138 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THE ENEMY'S GATE IS RIGHT < 1297441160 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what this rule_of_nine thing is < 1297441168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not working atm < 1297441184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ONWD RTRT ? < 1297441200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the breakdown's indicating that it's at least a promising strategy < 1297441203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay, fine < 1297441258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/LOOP/LEAP/ , fits better with POOL >:) < 1297441261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it looks like it just isn't executing slug at all < 1297441264 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also TO and FRO < 1297441284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably didn't get the allocation it wanted < 1297441284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'd a thought 4 letters were mandatory here < 1297441288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's not four characters! < 1297441292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, MANDATROY < 1297441297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program will CRASH if they aren't used < 1297441299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRASH < 1297441322 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paris was a mandaTROY < 1297441345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what does unmatched [ do in egobot? < 1297441346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop? < 1297441353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it end the program if the value isn't 0? < 1297441357 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yerp < 1297441358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1297441359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 0 < 1297441361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be parse error IMO < 1297441366 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1297441377 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it matter what egojoust does? < 1297441377 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, agreed, I was trying to preserve the ] is nop behaviour but _meh_ < 1297441386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWSE WSNS < 1297441387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well i don't want to break the current hill beyond program that do ([)*n < 1297441391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1297441397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might make ([)*n...(])*n work with a preprocessor < 1297441401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but impomatic's program is gonna have to go :P < 1297441436 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be unfair to break programs that do ([)*n because egojoust can't do ({})%n properly < 1297441500 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, lunch over. time to go engage in an act of ritual vampirism for the good of my fellow man! < 1297441522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, what does unmatched [ do in egobot? <-- none of the programs i checked yesterday had that after expansion, anyway < 1297441530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some reason why you can't just do the (slower) text-expansion thing for those ()*n's you can't handle well? < 1297441564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Not "can't handle well". < 1297441567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: According to the spec, they're invalid. < 1297441582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are abusing undefined behaviour to write invalid programs that can't be run efficiently, and that's not my problem :P < 1297441619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can I have two simple ()-less BF Joust programs where you know one beats the other on a defined tape length and polarity? < 1297441627 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should make a converter, that, if it gets an invalid program, converts it into a valid one and resaves it. also you should possibly remove this feature once the current hill has been processed by it :P < 1297441657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: (1) That would cause rapid expansion for certain types of program's (a single impomatic one); the simple cases I'm planning to preprocess if I can't convince Gregor just to ditch the fuckers. :p < 1297441663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) Indeed :P < 1297441682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to add a tracing feature to lance, anyway, so you can debug your programs. < 1297441687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks some of us might find that useful :P < 1297441689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the impomatic one doesn't get _that_ large, i actually did that manually yesterday. oh i tried to match up parts though. < 1297441712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: impomatic has way too many programs on the hill anyway :D < 1297441738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there were only two that would affected if you do simple ()*n ... ()*n matching < 1297441756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would save 4 of them) < 1297441762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [>[-]+] [>[-]-.-.-.-.-.-]; the first loses on normal polarity, the second loses on swapped polarity, the length of the tape doesn't matter < 1297441765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the hill may be different today < 1297441776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be affected < 1297441779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thank you < 1297441803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes the makefile as insane as possible just for the hell of it < 1297441891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# MWAHAHAHAHA < 1297441892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHONY: all clean < 1297441892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all: lance < 1297441892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance: lance.c; $(shell grep '* compile:' $< | cut -d' ' -f4-) < 1297441892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean:; rm -f lance < 1297441893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHA < 1297441900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.PHONY < 1297441911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alright, lunch over. time to go engage in an act of ritual vampirism for the good of my fellow man! <-- i'd a thought that would fit better _during_ lunch, m'self < 1297441915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * elliott hird 2011 < 1297441915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * compile: gcc -std=c99 -O2 -Wall lance.c -o lance < 1297441915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * use: lance p1.bfjoust p2.bfjoust; $? = right wins - right losses < 1297441915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1297441917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1297441922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* lance -- duel bf joust warriors efficiently < 1297441922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * elliott hird 2011 < 1297441922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * compile: gcc -std=c99 -O2 -Wall lance.c -o lance < 1297441923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * use: lance p1.bfjoust p2.bfjoust; $? = right wins - right losses < 1297441925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1297441929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see wut i did thar < 1297441964 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_slug: 2.4 < 1297441965 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_rule_of_nine: 2.4 < 1297442042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it ran < 1297442046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that took a while. < 1297442049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1297442052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equal scores < 1297442056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the only kind of cycle timeout is a tie, right? < 1297442059 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"{ iterates back to matching ( or pops" When would it ever pop? < 1297442075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would probably use, say, at least 500 Mb of memory? < 1297442076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohduh, if the iteration count matches. < 1297442077 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IGNORE ME < 1297442077 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC down 0.09 in last day, 0.35 in last 2 weeks. < 1297442078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If the count is 0, presumably. < 1297442083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What are you implementing? < 1297442093 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'll see :P < 1297442097 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does INVOLVE a BFJoust interpreter. < 1297442101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it's not going to last long, is it? < 1297442101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I MUST KNOW < 1297442108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: the only kind of cycle timeout is a tie, right? < 1297442108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming ints for *loops are 4 bytes, if they're 8, then 900 Mb < 1297442110 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297442111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: An evolver? < 1297442122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ints are 32 bit in C < 1297442122 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, no. < 1297442123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1297442124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux < 1297442125 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More helpful to other people than that. < 1297442130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: A debugger? < 1297442135 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ding < 1297442136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IGNORE ME <-- O KAY < 1297442138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because the debugger/tracer is part of lance :| < 1297442144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd like to add a tracing feature to lance, anyway, so you can debug your programs. < 1297442144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Methinks some of us might find that useful :P < 1297442149 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mine will be nicer :P < 1297442161 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This allocation rate is actually bit slowish compared to one shown in first half of December and on January. < 1297442162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mine was going to have an optional ncurses animation of the tape activity. < 1297442165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NICER THAN THAT, BITCH? < 1297442172 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Substantially. < 1297442175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What, then < 1297442184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is browser-based :P < 1297442184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine was going to let you change programs as they run! < 1297442190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, that I won't do. < 1297442201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have a really weird definition of "nicer" that involves using a browser. < 1297442207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: If the count is 0, presumably. <-- depends which side he lets count up and which counts down (they need to be opposite) < 1297442218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is it because of your JavaScript-induced brain damage? >:) < 1297442236 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*, the poor unindoctrinated. < 1297442247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey ais523 < 1297442260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can either use a line-based BF Joust debugger with live tape display and program editing capabilities < 1297442264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a browser-based debugger with none of that < 1297442266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which do you use < 1297442275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the former is far faster for obvious reasons (i.e. C vs. JS) < 1297442316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mine is browser-based :P <-- i sense some escalation here < 1297442327 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297442327 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.89 (primary blocks minus 1 reserved) + 1.58 (ERX) is 4.47 blocks. That would last about 24 weeks (about 5 and half months) at 0.35 blocks per 2 weeks. < 1297442420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also if you want my proposed (({{}})%)% extension then ( and { as well as } and ) match in a somewhat parenthesis-like fashion < 1297442432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I got that. < 1297442442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '[>[-]-.-.-.-.-.-]'; echo $? < 1297442443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1297442445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was a... draw. < 1297442579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Any explanation? :-P < 1297442584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was correct iirc < 1297442592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither can kill a flag < 1297442593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 said that the former loses < 1297442598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he a liar? < 1297442605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one loses all with one polarity, the other with the other polarity < 1297442618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no this does only one match < 1297442623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return duel(program1, program2, SIEVE, 10); < 1297442623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1297442624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1297442708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Right warrior failed to parse, left warrior wins!" < 1297442711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like sloth didn't parse :D < 1297442720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erms < 1297442721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*erm < 1297442721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slug < 1297442724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sloth would have been a better name < 1297442949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes )* is equivalent to {})% < 1297443081 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@86.241.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297443125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: got another set of programs? :P < 1297443143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty on the hill! < 1297443154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they all use () < 1297443156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this is totally bugged < 1297443158 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thumbs up on the trace. if it does not flood the screen because it uses curses even better < 1297443161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '.'; echo $? < 1297443161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1297443162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '.' '[>[-]+]'; echo $? < 1297443162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1297443171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well your commands will flood the screen (it'll be part of the debugger) < 1297443181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: but you could run it in "animation mode" so to speak < 1297443184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the tape would look like < 1297443205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 0 94 0 ... 123 0 94 0 < 1297443212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the current cell of the warrior highlighted < 1297443219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they entered the ... region it'd scroll that part < 1297443223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this comes after it replaces egojoust ofc :P < 1297443361 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changes to BF Joust? < 1297443404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: no, they're planning a new interp < 1297443409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can handle ({}) efficiently < 1297443414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but keeping the rules the same < 1297443426 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah good :-) < 1297443450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: it is likely at least two of your warriors will need conversion and resubmission < 1297443480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you use mismatching ()*n not in the ()*n...()*n format < 1297443524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: what oerjan said < 1297443537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ([)*nfoo(])*n is Officially Deprecated; I'll probably preprocess it to work, but you should use ({})% from now on < 1297443546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, the spec has said this all along < 1297443555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: preprocess it into ([{foo}])%n < 1297443562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's what i mean < 1297443602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (A[)*NB(]C)*N -> (A[{B}]C)%n... as for (A[B)*NC(D]E)*N, not sure how to conevrt that < 1297443609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*convert < 1297443636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um the latter is completely similar < 1297443652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right, of course < 1297443677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A[B)*nC(D]E)*n -> (A[B{C}D]E)%n < 1297443681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond that i'm not going to bother converting < 1297443786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i want to fix this bug first :D < 1297444144 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust sexyghoul >(-)*9>(+)*9(>---)*6(>([+{[(-)*7([-{[(-)*122[-]]}])%5]}])%6)*21[-] < 1297444152 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly legal version < 1297444178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Write a preprocessor :-P < 1297444188 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_sexyghoul: 32.9 < 1297444193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: um you shouldn't resubmit _yet_, egojoust has big _trouble_ with ()% < 1297444200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it worked this time < 1297444222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah what oerjan said < 1297444235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: has been complaining about not being able to use %n for n >~ 20. well you didn't, actually. < 1297444244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quintopia < 1297444247 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Egojoust only have trouble with ()% if it expands too large? < 1297444268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: there's at least one definite bug in the code, it miscalculates the resulting program size < 1297444308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see my lambdabot messages to Gregor earlier) < 1297444381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this may cause stray characters to be interpreted after the end of the program. < 1297444410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be heisenbuggy :/ < 1297444432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this is all theoretical) < 1297444444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for the fact quintopia _had_ trouble) < 1297444776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so it actually does timeout < 1297444798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what times out? < 1297444804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the match i'm testing < 1297444817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '.' | head -c 10; echo < 1297444817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 0 0 0 0 < 1297444819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's not right < 1297444829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm so it's not parsing the programs < 1297444842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1297444898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (*p++) < 1297444898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (i >= MAXPROG) { < 1297444898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fprintf(stderr, "Oi -- your program is too long.\n"); < 1297444898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : exit(1); < 1297444898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1297444899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch (*p) { < 1297444901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOTTE BUG < 1297444978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '.'; echo $? < 1297444978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi -- your program has an unmatched [, and it's all your fault. < 1297444979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1297444980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't! < 1297445029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bug: switch (*p) after you already incremented p < 1297445040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but wrong < 1297445045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: bug was that while block had no {}s :D < 1297445058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1297445065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx for that btw :P < 1297445075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/Code/lance$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '.'; echo $? < 1297445075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1297445075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/Code/lance$ ./lance '.' '[>[-]+]'; echo $? < 1297445075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1297445076 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297445077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"er." < 1297445123 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: -a- < 1297445126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Gregor < 1297445131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does egojoust return if right wins all < 1297445137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely not a negative < 1297445145 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1297445198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: return rwins - lwins; < 1297445203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from main < 1297445207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1297445209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what if rwins=0a < 1297445211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0 < 1297445212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lwins=big < 1297445215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll return a large unsigned value < 1297445220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet, this bug doesn't manifest on the hill < 1297445221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1297445225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1297445269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["Kilroy Was Here" is a school play available from Pioneer Drama Services, written by Bill Francoeur and Tim Kelly. Kilroy is a comedy and the setting is a U.S.O. Club ("The Serviceman's 'Home Away From Home'") in Brooklyn in 1942. Ships leaving the nearby Navy yard are being sunk by enemy U-boats. Allied intelligence suspects the club is unknowingly harboring Axis spies. Enter Private Joe Kilroy, a young soldier who draws a curious cartoon face < 1297445269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : everywhere he goes (and is this causing trouble!). He's the only one who knows where the next Allied convoy will converge. The enemy agents are stopping at nothing to learn his secret. The action builds to an exciting finale during a wild radio broadcast. The score includes such hits as "Don't Say No To The U.S.O.," "Slap That Jukebox," "Jitterbug Saturday Night," and "Rat-a-tat-tat That Rivet," with classic Andrews Sisters style harmony.]] --Wi < 1297445270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipedia < 1297445273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wikipedia < 1297445280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: report.c does st = WEXITSTATUS(st); < 1297445283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would remove it but I'm too busy WTFing. < 1297445291 0 :jix_!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297445296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :st is an int < 1297445303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1297445306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how that can work then < 1297445307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor! < 1297445327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have a feeling that it might be calculated such that you always end up with 0 if it loses more than it wins < 1297445377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this one of those times where you've found it already, or not? < 1297445379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hm i vaguely recall that being said < 1297445380 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297445381 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1297445381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you found it or you'd be staring at the channel waiting for an answer < 1297445381 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1297445382 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1297445384 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1297445384 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297445394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wow, you're lagged. < 1297445395 0 :nescience!~myndzi@m250e36d0.tmodns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297445406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or I am. < 1297445409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, clearly < 1297445411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was < 1297445425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got what I suspect is 8 minutes' worth in the span of 6 seconds < 1297445455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess the server hasn't completely recovered from its issues a few hours back < 1297445460 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess I'm lagging again < 1297445467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hi < 1297445471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not 8 minutes I suspect < 1297445480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Unless you got a LOT before that while < 1297445488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I got your "SPOTTE BUG" at 19:43 < 1297445500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I got your "$ ./lance" at 19:51 < 1297445515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with your "Wow, you're lagged" < 1297445554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1297445555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :st = WEXITSTATUS(st); < 1297445561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1297445563 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1297445563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm yes i saw that < 1297445566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1297445569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 130 if (p1 < p2) { < 1297445569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 131 win = scores[p1*programCount + p2] * -1; < 1297445569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 132 } else { < 1297445569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 133 win = scores[p2*programCount + p1]; < 1297445571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 134 } < 1297445592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from report.c < 1297445597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what. < 1297445603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway, while braces, *p++ and then *p, and using i instead of something like p - begin (if you have both a running index and a running pointer... dude.) < 1297445618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ...yeah, why do I have i and p :-D < 1297445716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway is there anything wrong with passing an int through an exit code, as long as it's cast back at the end... < 1297445736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *actually* I need i < 1297445739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: because of comments < 1297445742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that get stripped from the result < 1297445745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refers to the position in the /result/ < 1297445748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO HA < 1297445756 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297445765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well signals do (255 - something)... < 1297445771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sits wrongly with me :D < 1297445781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1297445807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess a signed char would have been less disturbing < 1297445826 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297445918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297446074 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1297446107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm posix man page for exit shows that only last 8 bits are supposed to be transferred < 1297446126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just prints out the return for now :P < 1297446157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/Code/lance$ ./lance '.' '[>[-]+]' < 1297446157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..........................................42 < 1297446157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/Code/lance$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '.' < 1297446157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..........................................42 < 1297446159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf... < 1297446179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oh* < 1297446189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm nope < 1297446350 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297446350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1297446350 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1297446536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c (-1000) >> 8 < 1297446554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi < 1297446561 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1297446564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1297446565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need printf < 1297446568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297446571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", -1000 >> 8); < 1297446572 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-4 < 1297446575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this isn't haskell, - is parsed correctly < 1297446577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1297446588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATEVER < 1297446601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just looking at #define __WEXITSTATUS(status) (((status) & 0xff00) >> 8) < 1297446636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if status is signed and 32 bits, this should all give a signed result right < 1297446664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really have a clue here < 1297446693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", -1000 & 0xff00) >> 8) < 1297446694 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1297446698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", -1000 & 0xff00) >> 8); < 1297446700 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1297446711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", (-1000 & 0xff00) >> 8)); < 1297446712 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1297446717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW WHAT < 1297446739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", ((-1000) & 0xff00) >> 8)); < 1297446743 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1297446756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", ((-1000) & 0xff00) >> 8); < 1297446760 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :252 < 1297446770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not, hm < 1297446790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", ((int)(-1000) & 0xff00) >> 8); < 1297446792 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :252 < 1297446851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... < 1297446862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result is put into char later < 1297446872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *scores; < 1297446889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and putc(st, cacheF); < 1297446931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as long as char is signed, report.c works. < 1297446954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls this is not guaranteed < 1297446990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is on linux. < 1297446995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1297446999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Gregor can i rewrite half of report.c, sounds like it sucks :D < 1297447005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1297447027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah but note! < 1297447031 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I checked signdedness somewhere ... < 1297447036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when you do "return -1;" that gets turned into 255 < 1297447048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: before any other process gets it < 1297447052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what does that do to your logic? :D < 1297447057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: note that st doesn't contain the status < 1297447065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains the status somewhere, but its format is essentially ill-defined < 1297447073 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1297447073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr report.c works out of utter chance. < 1297447086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced it _does_ work :P < 1297447098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um it does after the st = WEXITSTATUS(st); surely? < 1297447107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh yes < 1297447120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesson learned: if your Internet connection dies, the solution is not to SSH into your firewall and ifdown its LAN interface < 1297447125 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably just ends up as 255. but then if you put it into signed char, right, it will work < 1297447136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You've totally ruined my image of you as infallible, dude. < 1297447154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the programs . and [-] draw, whodathunkit? < 1297447191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reasoning was that I wanted access to my cable modem, but I didn't quite realize that I was killing my SSH connection in the process < 1297447250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: just put signed in front of char *scores; i think. < 1297447277 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well... < 1297447284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just let me rewrite report.c personally :-P < 1297447290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1297447414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm it's not an automatic loss for a program to end, is it? at least . drawing would seem to imply that < 1297447428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it should not be. but it may be. < 1297447444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it isn't < 1297447461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-] on your own flag loses, right? < 1297447468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1297447475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait well duh < 1297447487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK I DON'T BELIEVE YOU < 1297447499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[-]' '>' < 1297447499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 -9 -10 -11 -12 -13 -14 -15 -16 -17 -18 -19 -20 -21 -22 -23 -24 -25 -26 -27 -28 -29 -30 -31 -32 -33 -34 -35 -36 -37 -38 -39 -40 -41 -42 < 1297447501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that works < 1297447509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait what < 1297447517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1297447540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int ptrs[2] = {0,0}; < 1297447541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the bug oerjan < 1297447542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the bug < 1297447561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um are those the starting positions < 1297447571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1297447572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you put the warriors in the same spot? < 1297447577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297447582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '<' '.'; echo < 1297447583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 < 1297447583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '.' '<'; echo < 1297447583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1297447584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 -9 -10 -11 -12 -13 -14 -15 -16 -17 -18 -19 -20 -21 -22 -23 -24 -25 -26 -27 -28 -29 -30 -31 -32 -33 -34 -35 -36 -37 -38 -39 -40 -41 -42 < 1297447585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that works < 1297447589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [-] doesn't seem to suicide :D < 1297447616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (int i=0; i<2; i++) < 1297447616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (tape[i?tapesz-1:0] == 0) deathcount[i]++; < 1297447616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else deathcount[i] = 0; < 1297447616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (deathcount[0] >= 2 && deathcount[1] >= 2) return 0; < 1297447616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if (deathcount[0] >= 2) return 1; < 1297447616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if (deathcount[1] >= 2) return -1; < 1297447618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should _work_ :( < 1297447633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1297447696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HEY COME BACK HERE < 1297448058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1297448071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1297448085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this gives me the idea of "mexican BFJoust" < 1297448120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.1/gcc/Lvalues.html#Lvalues < 1297448121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: insanity < 1297448124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1297448152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three warriors, on a circular tape, equidistant, all with > clockwise, say < 1297448191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i approve < 1297448204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait but a circular tape is just a wrapping tape < 1297448208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the second warrior would be in the middle, say < 1297448212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1297448214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait yes < 1297448252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the tape has 3n cells, then it wraps, with warriors at positions 0, n, 2n say < 1297448288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rule_of_nine (>)*15(+<)*14(>)*14(-[(>)*8((-)*64(-.)*128>)*21]+<)*14(>)*20([(-)*2[+]]>)*8(+.++.)*10000 < 1297448326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, why did I make that leave a trail? obviously that I wasn't thinking < 1297448463 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_rule_of_nine: 0.8 < 1297448555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rule_of_nine (+>)*9[(-[(>)*8((-)*64(-.)*128>)*21]<)*19(>)*9](+>)*9[(-[(>)*8((-)*64(-.)*128>)*21]<)*19(>)*9](>)*8[--[+]]>[--[.+]](+.++.)*10000 < 1297448570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i see nothing wrong with your above paste < 1297448588 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_rule_of_nine: 0.0 < 1297449225 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297449334 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297449345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm testing rule_of_nine locally now, it's getting better... < 1297449499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rule_of_nine (>+)*9(-[(>)*9((-)*64(-.)*128>)*21]+<)*9(>)*9(>+)*9([(-[(>)*9((-)*64(-.)*128>)*21]+<)*18(>)*18)*1000([+.++][+.++]>)*10(+.++.)*100000 < 1297449510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still isn't very good, but it should do a lot better than 0 < 1297449537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *100000 is changed to *10000 < 1297449546 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_rule_of_nine: 5.0 < 1297449572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just meant "until the end of the program" < 1297449572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's likely to matter... < 1297449715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>(>-[+[+[---]]])*21 < 1297449731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, there's an obvious fix to /that/ one < 1297449775 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_speedy1: 28.1 < 1297449777 0 :asiekierka_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1297449812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust speedy1 >>>>>>>>(>[-[++[---]]])*21 < 1297449835 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_speedy1: 31.0 < 1297449858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's add a few decoys and see what happens < 1297449872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust speedy1 >++>-->++>-->>>>(+>[-[++[---]]])*21 < 1297449885 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_speedy1: 29.2 < 1297449886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, I should change the number now < 1297449895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust speedy1 < < 1297449910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust speedy2 >>>>>>>>(>[-[++[---]]])*21 < 1297449914 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_speedy1: 0.0 < 1297449933 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_speedy2: 31.1 < 1297449943 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, my quick (not yet complete) debugger is working, but it's quite slow :P < 1297449949 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even for "I hacked this up quickly in JavaScript" < 1297449954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha at it being higher up than defend7 < 1297449967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the mighty have fallen < 1297450002 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually it's only slow when it has to run all 100K iterations. < 1297450012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which usually only happens with defend v defend. < 1297450016 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297450051 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-123.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297450267 0 :Tritonio!~TrT@178.128.140.104.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297450470 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297450519 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, elliott (haha you don't care), whoever: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/egojsout.html // Stick a program in each box, click "Run", then click on the result of a particular run to see the step-by-step breakdown. If it takes all 100K iterations, you'll be waiting a while :P < 1297450544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've been doing that locally already, but it might be useful for if I'm not at my computer < 1297450553 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is prettier :P < 1297450652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to draw one element beyond the flags on each side, is that deliberate? < 1297450667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, loss count? < 1297450686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loss count, yeah < 1297450708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It sucks because it's browser-based any questions! < 1297450719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration2 >>+<-<(-)*128(+-)*10000(+-)*10000(+-)*10000(+-)*10000(+-)*10000 < 1297450776 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_vibration2: 14.4 < 1297450785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297450899 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1297450929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mind if I call my rewritten report.c lancealot? < 1297450934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, you see, it runs lance a lot. < 1297450953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care what you call your report.c since I'll be using my own. < 1297450973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration2 >>+++<---<(-)*128(+-)*10000(+-)*10000(+-)*10000(+-)*10000(+-)*9939(-)*100 < 1297451030 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_vibration2: 12.0 < 1297451042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watching defend14 is a thing of beauty X-D < 1297451043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But its return code mechanism is insane. < 1297451055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what should I watch it against? < 1297451063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: note that -1 isn't a valid UNIX return code < 1297451074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yay, so report.c is even more broken. < 1297451075 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Idonno, I was watching it against wireless_frowny < 1297451100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Srsly, I'm not going to make lance to blatantly invalid things just because report.c does crazy stuff. What's wrong with changing it < 1297451102 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm sorry that it doesn't run on the purely-hypothetical OS that doesn't exist and it isn't running on. < 1297451128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you're so adamant to keep using the exact same code < 1297451138 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You misunderstand. < 1297451141 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm adamant about bothering you. < 1297451172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy laggy EgoJoust then :-P < 1297451187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/laggy/laggy and broken on % < 1297451192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/%$/%\// < 1297451201 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, fixing report is TOTALLY going to make it faster X-P < 1297451224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, but I'm not going to mess with lance to make it do invalid things and multiply by two arbitrarily just so that report.c doesn't have to change :P < 1297451233 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care if you rewrite report, but I'd like to see SOMETHING actually come out of this and if you go "this all sucks because it's not PERFECTION ON A SANDWICH so I'm rewriting it" then instead I'll get nothing. < 1297451262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By rewrite I probably just mean tweak < 1297451298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And hey, it'll stop the reports clashing with each other, so quit yer yappin' :P < 1297451300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The breakdowns) < 1297451326 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAN, all this debugger is accomplishing is making me realize how wildly outclassed I am >_< < 1297451384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah? Well LANCE'S debugger uses STRONG AI to make COMMENTARY on the match and SUGGESTS improvements to your program! < 1297451389 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the debugger have drop down menus to select programs from the hill? < 1297451420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh for fucks sake X_X < 1297451427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mine was joke btw < 1297451433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I got that :P < 1297451441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST CHECKIN' < 1297451460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do a dropdown client-side by AJAXXXXXXXin' to in_egobot/ :-P < 1297451533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit Emacs, why you forget my font settings < 1297451543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's what I'm doing :P < 1297451543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More or less) < 1297451563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This is like the one situation where PHP would be appropriate :P < 1297451573 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using PHP on the server :P < 1297451576 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence the "more or less" part. < 1297451592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why not just send all programs down in a JS object at page load then < 1297451594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO AJAX AT ALL < 1297451598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you thought I meant JS by AJAX. < 1297451607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a horrible excuse for a human being so I don't say AJAX to mean JS. < 1297451612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is generating the original use. < 1297451614 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err < 1297451615 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i only ask because copypasta is difficult on my phone :P < 1297451616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*original list < 1297451626 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yeahyeah, I'm doin' it :P < 1297451665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, Emacs, give me the right font size < 1297451681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to size it in PIXELS because you're DUMB < 1297451704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HA HA, VIM < 1297451716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set-default-font "Monospace-10.5") < 1297451716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooooo < 1297451813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance: lance.c; $(shell grep '* compile:' $< | cut -d' ' -f4-) < 1297451813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think this is the best Makefile rule ever written. < 1297451870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, programs still aren't being stored ... somehow ... < 1297451887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait *what*... < 1297451927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like my programs are... circular... < 1297451937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is cool mind, but not what I was going for. < 1297451992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh DUR < 1297452055 0 :Tritonio_GR!~TrT@79.103.34.27.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297452059 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297452253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '.' '' < 1297452253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......................................... < 1297452253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right wins (0) < 1297452258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1297452262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops in output code. < 1297452299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How long does it take egojoust to pit [] against [] with all polarities/tape sizes? Not bragging, just really want a point of comparison :-P < 1297452307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.074s for lance. < 1297452328 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no friggin' clue, don't care to check, and would be running it on a VM making the comparison meaningless. < 1297452345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just assume lance is better then :-P < 1297452354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it does think that [] beats [>[-]+] though. < 1297452361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem...quite...right. < 1297452415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And polarity isn't working quite right. < 1297452419 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the Borg met the Changelings? < 1297452443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping < 1297452448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why did i ping < 1297452450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pong < 1297452459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the polarities are ++ and +- right? < 1297452463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297452473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so this is entirely understandable, < 1297452479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/Code/lance$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '[>[-]+]' < 1297452479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......................................... < 1297452479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right wins (32) < 1297452479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/Code/lance$ ./lance '[>[+]-]' '[>[-]+]' < 1297452479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......................................... < 1297452480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left wins (-42) < 1297452481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1297452483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1297452487 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, egojsout now gets the hill from the server. < 1297452487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first isn't understandable < 1297452488 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297452489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it should be a draw < 1297452491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the latter has got me confused :P < 1297452503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it getting wins wrong... < 1297452508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should both be draws < 1297452521 0 :Tritonio_GR!~TrT@79.103.34.27.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1297452527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1297452568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '[>[-]+]' < 1297452569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X>X>X>X>X>X>X>X>X>X> < 1297452569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right wins (32) < 1297452570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1297452648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '<' '<' < 1297452648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < 1297452648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right wins (42) < 1297452649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1297452650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIAS! < 1297452728 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: is bfjsout supposed to do anything but display the breakdowns? < 1297452747 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not seeing it step through in realtime >_> < 1297452756 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Click on an element of the breakdown. < 1297452763 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297452784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't step through real-time for 42 runs (well, I could, but it'd be dumb) < 1297452798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[>[+]-]' '' < 1297452798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX < 1297452798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody wins (0) < 1297452798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eyebrow* < 1297452868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Heh, I like the hex tape display, might steal that >_> < 1297452918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: May I humbly suggest replacing the X with an =, so that it's clearly distinct from the number < 1297452924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That vaguely makes sense in context of the comparison operators :P < 1297452928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because the cell is "tied" < 1297452944 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wasn't thinking comparison operators, I was thinking arrows :P < 1297452948 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suppose that would be more distinct. < 1297452955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pun, it doesn't have to make sense :P < 1297452967 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297453103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bug was fixed by... recompiling? < 1297453114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '[>[+]-]' < 1297453114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < 1297453115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right wins (42) < 1297453117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not < 1297453185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're always checking the prevalue, right? < 1297453193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not letting one commit then checking the other? < 1297453202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In loops? Yeha. < 1297453203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yeah. < 1297453220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (int cycles=0; cycles[+]-] vs. [>[-]+] makes no sense to me (first breakdown). < 1297453669 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: +- is identical to -+. check any breakdown.txt < 1297453669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They stop in the middle and start doing freaky shit for no apparent reason after spending two cycles doing nothing. < 1297453675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: indeed < 1297453691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait. < 1297453694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They cross over or something. < 1297453699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, still makes no sense. < 1297453785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does the bottom program appear on the left? x_x < 1297453803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, the trace is totally fucked-up for a program like < :P < 1297453839 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEIRD < 1297453844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ? < 1297453870 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[[ does not actually work as a reverse tripwire avoider in all cases, but it does improve my score O_O < 1297453877 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what it is doing for me < 1297454031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you only need two, {+p1,+p2} and {+p1,-p2} < 1297454038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1297454044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my trace is totally effed up right now, trying to figure out the problem < 1297454044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'm surprised it works at all, although it does < 1297454055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically has to hit the first tripwire while it's 0, then it works < 1297454063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reverse tripwire < 1297454154 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it works just often enough to help? < 1297454172 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pretty much kill defend13 and defend14 on every game even without it though < 1297454179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because you generally beat defend13/defend14 even if you trip the tripwire < 1297454180 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think it's helping somewhere else < 1297454203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might help vs. defend13/14 not by doding the tripwire, but by causing it to misdetect your strategy < 1297454233 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1297454265 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so. i think the [.+] wins regardless of what they think my strategy is < 1297454312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incorrect, as seen by the fact that defend14 beats wireless_frownie on a max-length tape < 1297454340 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not since i removed that special case :P < 1297454352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually has a counter-three-cycle-clear in there somewhere, but doesn't trigger it very often < 1297454366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, three cycle clear can be countered, but only if you know the opponent's using it < 1297454373 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the special case did a 2-cycle clear, which is why defend won in that case < 1297454377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1297454395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to find a defend7/10 variant that also deals with three-cycle clears via pure maths < 1297454402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kind-of tricky as 3 doesn't divide into 256 < 1297454403 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of doing that < 1297454416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defend10 can deal with /four/-cycle clears without issues) < 1297454420 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you just have to simulate the thing on all polarities simultaneously < 1297454434 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adjust every place it COULD go to zero by as much as possible < 1297454454 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resulting code would be ugly as shit tho < 1297454460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't work, due to not knowing the size of the enemy's offset clear < 1297454465 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, imo, all defend code is already :P < 1297454477 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you detect it? < 1297454484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easily at all < 1297454511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you knew the first time the enemy would set your flag to 0 outside an offset, it would be easy < 1297454513 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's gotta be some kind of alternating bump that works for both 2 and 3 cycles though < 1297454517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't think of any way to detect that at all < 1297454533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that defend7/10 don't work via bumping at all < 1297454545 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they do? < 1297454550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more reliable to drive the opposing program backwards, so that the flag doesn't hit 0 at all < 1297454559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, they can't detect the 0 and change tactics < 1297454566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 and 10 both do that on one polarity < 1297454571 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297454579 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still kind of like bumping < 1297454583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit < 1297454588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's over a wide range of cycles < 1297454596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the timings are chosen so that they accelerate a push in the other direction < 1297454608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus causing the opponent to go over the same sequence each time < 1297454619 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sequence that misses zero < 1297454624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: plz stop submitting programs in /msg < 1297454628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does go past 0, potentially, but not for more than a frame < 1297454629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means we have to look at in_egobot all the time < 1297454634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, don't see when our programs get knocked off etc. < 1297454635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : please spam the channel < 1297454639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh please < 1297454646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like we talk much anyway :P < 1297454648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do. < 1297454654 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1297454655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking it was opposite to your normal point of view < 1297454665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes, it is nice to watch people improve their bots. and also useful for the _rest_ of us players. < 1297454669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just courtesy < 1297454680 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'll copy the versions i end up leaving to here if that makes you happy < 1297454695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I test mine locally, often, before posting them in-channel < 1297454700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'd rather just see them all, after all, failed strategies often get copied by others and improved upon < 1297454703 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not going to spam with all the little tests and tweaks < 1297454746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone else does it :) < 1297454752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not as if you're creating spam out of nowhere < 1297454753 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, you don't have any competitors on the hill...why are you the advocate? < 1297454797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that relevant? < 1297454798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i used to :) < 1297454799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: elliott isn't on the hill because he isn't very good at BF Joust, rather than because he hasn't tried < 1297454807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, I had some programs that were pretty high up first time around < 1297454813 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how reliably can you detect polarity of consistent programs? < 1297454813 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1297454815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1297454828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I firmly believe I could do well at the current hill, if I spent time studying the existing programs; I just haven't yet < 1297454830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: not completely reliably; I'd say around 50% < 1297454844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, better than that < 1297454846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very tempted to write exact_opposite_of_defend13 that specifically counters everything it does < 1297454849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean 50% better than guessing < 1297454878 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, 75% :P < 1297454978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the issue is that detectors can be tricked quite easily < 1297454991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes into going into an infinite loop rather than detecting either way < 1297454993 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure there is no way to prevent both 2 and 3 cycle decrementers from hitting zero at *some* point, but i suspect you could create a sequence that bumps both of them indefinitely (with the caveat that one of them could detect it) < 1297455045 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, you'd let the 2-cycle one be able to detect it < 1297455052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT movement is broken... < 1297455055 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stave of the 3 indefinitely < 1297455056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a little dangerous < 1297455076 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opposite is even more dangerous < 1297455100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't avoid 0 indefinitely without either a) getting lucky with exact timings (i.e. making both programs do + to go from -1 to +1), or b) knowing both the cycle sequence and polarity of the opponent < 1297455117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R80 < 1297455118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R80 < 1297455118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L7F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R7F < 1297455118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L7F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R7F < 1297455118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L7E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R80 < 1297455118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L7E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R80 < 1297455120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7E L00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R7F < 1297455122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7E LFF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R7F < 1297455126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7E LFF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R80 < 1297455128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7E LFE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 R80 < 1297455130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that right program is _not_ [>[+]-] < 1297455140 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odds on the first being possible? < 1297455144 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1297455161 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it is heavily dependent on offset sizes < 1297455166 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna say it's not < 1297455189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not too < 1297455200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing it depends on is impossible to detect < 1297455230 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1297455236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much the only thing you could do would be to set up three or four decoys at 128 and count the number of cycles between them being zeroed < 1297455241 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that bfjsout's trace? < 1297455244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1297455246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance's < 1297455247 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1297455253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1297455255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then assume the opponent will be consistent in the timing to the next one < 1297455257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there isn't time to do that < 1297455281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>[+]-] spends five ticks on a normal zeroed cell, right? < 1297455283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1297455285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>[-]+] < 1297455287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1297455290 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there could be... you'd just have to make time to build a *lot* of decoys < 1297455301 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b77fa.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297455302 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those programs are identical < 1297455314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean with normal polarity < 1297455316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes five ticks < 1297455329 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four ticks < 1297455334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I really think that -p1,+p2 might differ from +p1,-p2, because p1 might time out with the other polarity < 1297455334 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the first [ < 1297455338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of a [+] or [-] loop < 1297455342 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trace for zeroed cells < 1297455345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hmm, a bug then < 1297455357 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is [>[-]>[-] < 1297455362 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1297455373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, symmetry < 1297455380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please understand the concept of symmetry < 1297455396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that only applies when the programs are the same! the point is that with a timeout it's not equivalent < 1297455397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-p1, +p2 is always the same as +p1, -p2 because the two runs will be identical, except for each tape element being - that tape element < 1297455404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: that only applies when the programs are the same! the point is that with a timeout it's not equivalent < 1297455405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said < 1297455406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timeout < 1297455412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no difference either < 1297455420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're neglecting that +p1 might have a [-] loop that runs in N ticks < 1297455422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after, say, 50 cycles, even if the two programs are different, the two tapes will be the same < 1297455431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the values in one being minus the values in the other < 1297455453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't that only apply if the starting tape differed? < 1297455454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if +p1 has a [-] loop, -p1 has a [+] loop in the same place, running on a value which is minus the value that +p1 started on < 1297455456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no. hmm. < 1297455461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the starting tape is minus itself < 1297455461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1297455463 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes against a different opponent the breakdowns for the two polarities will be switched when you switch the polarity :P < 1297455465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the symmetry wouldn't work < 1297455528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, my loop code is broken < 1297455538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297455625 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297455722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1297456852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added more SWEET debugging to egojsout :) < 1297456859 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click on a particular state for deliciousness :) < 1297457272 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: k, but did you fix the thing where (<(-)*127<(+)*127)*2 doesn't get expanded right? cuz, you know, that's p annoying < 1297457288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? Since when? < 1297457296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how quintopia wants Gregor to fix bugs without reporting them < 1297457313 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you fix bugs before people find them all the time! < 1297457345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly looks right to me ... < 1297457372 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, that's expanded right. < 1297457431 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme refresh and make sure i'm testing on the latest version < 1297457531 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yup. it's not doing it right. fight monorail against wireless. you'll see wireless only builds two of the largest decoys before attacking and leaves the two cells nearest its flag zeroed < 1297457544 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(put wireless on the right in case it's asymmetric) < 1297457562 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>(<(-)*127<(+)*127)*2>>>>>(>[-])*100 has the correct behavior, btw. < 1297457576 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, sure, but replicate my test case < 1297457666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think it's bugged in that [>[-]+] vs [>[+]-] produces weeeeeeird output. < 1297457673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sort of stop at the middle for some reason. < 1297457717 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehehe < 1297457744 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet he typed that with a perfectly straight face too < 1297457749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: E_CANNOTREPRO < 1297457755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1297457758 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1297457770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i bet he typed that with a perfectly straight face too < 1297457772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who < 1297457777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me? :p < 1297457788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally don't expect loops to start when the tape pointer is on a zero. < 1297457789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally. < 1297457821 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WTF < 1297457846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a BROWSER INCOMPATIBILITY. < 1297457880 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not, it's a quintopia-is-doing-something-wrong-incompatibility :P < 1297457950 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i'm getting you a screencap of what is happening < 1297457967 0 :R0b0t1!~sid@unaffiliated/r0b0t1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1297458023 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lame +.+ < 1297458031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the + in the first program cancels out the - in the second program, then they both escape from their main loops < 1297458035 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: http://imgur.com/qchSQ do you not see this in your trace? < 1297458039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NOP forever due to hitting the end of the program < 1297458045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hi R0b0t1 < 1297458047 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R0b0t1: Yup, that's pretty lame :P < 1297458048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not what i got in egobfjsout < 1297458053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that program will do particularly well < 1297458060 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for R0b0t1_lame: 10.8 < 1297458063 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just checking. < 1297458073 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No. Browser/platform? < 1297458080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it isn't even last < 1297458081 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF 3.6.3 < 1297458084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor vibration2 < 1297458090 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: And this was wireless, right? Not wireless_whateverthatotheroneis? < 1297458094 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297458105 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireless currently has the code i mention above in it < 1297458225 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lame2 [+.+] < 1297458242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BROWSER INCOMPATIBILITY < 1297458250 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not as far as I can tell. < 1297458257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I hope it is. < 1297458262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that would be SO 90s. < 1297458266 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for R0b0t1_lame2: 14.9 < 1297458272 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet another shudder! < 1297458281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R0b0t1: hi, how did you find out about this place? the wiki? I suspect so since bf joust isn't exactly well known < 1297458284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1297458286 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one that sucks more because it actually loops and therefore suicides < 1297458302 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Indeed :3. < 1297458309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome etc. < 1297458376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was posted on reddit once < 1297458376 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it only happens in that particular trace for some reason < 1297458385 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ... < 1297458386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be a pretty delayed reaction < 1297458388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if anyone turned up here and stayed as a result < 1297458388 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHWAIT < 1297458405 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: There is a race condition, did you wait for it to finish running all traces before drilling down one? < 1297458405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc, #irp exists merely as a honeypot for Redditors < 1297458409 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also, you need to make it so when you click on a different trace it stops ... yeah < 1297458429 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That race condition is actually REALLY FREAKING DIFFICULT to fix, so I didn't bother with it :P < 1297458447 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, that's not what caused this. that was the first trace i clicked on after loading and running < 1297458485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have a global variable that specifies the stats of the trace that's running, stop looping if it's set different to the trace that you're generating < 1297458492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not so REALLY FREAKING DIFFICULT, is it? < 1297458504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Feh, I could do that :P < 1297458511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: be kind, Gregor is a javascript programmer, he doesn't understand such complex things! < 1297458512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But I can also fix it a little bit better, which I will in ~2hr < 1297458515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you want to use lance instead < 1297458518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(countdown to "fuck you"...) < 1297458550 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it work first? < 1297458587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do we have warring interps for any particular esolang? < 1297458602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge vs. CCBI (not really vs. Shiro, as it came at a different time) < 1297458602 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Idonno what to tell you, it works perfectly. < 1297458609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotope vs. in-between < 1297458617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, any others? < 1297458638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm joking though < 1297458639 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah, i can't repro it now either. i repro'd it twice perfectly and now nothing! heisenbug? < 1297458645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, esotope vs. inbetween wasn't much of a war < 1297458653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, because Vorpal got bored < 1297458654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: windows has three file path separators. quiz: what are they? < 1297458654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just me mocking V*rpal for copy-paste code, which i also did when he was doing cfunge :P < 1297458663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, he'll see that now! < 1297458689 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: \ is the main accepted one < 1297458711 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::? < 1297458817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: \ for legacy purposes, / for modern use, : as the drive separator < 1297458917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ is not for legacy purposes < 1297458927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UNC uses it < 1297458993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot yen < 1297458999 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¥ < 1297459003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(japanese versions only) < 1297459009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone take the credit for that; coppro won't see it < 1297459020 0 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1297459053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interestingly in cmd.exe, / = .\ < 1297459057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for cd < 1297459061 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on every version, I think, it's just rather hard to type the ¥ symbol on some computers. < 1297459074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tried it. It does not work on 7. < 1297459237 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1297459243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.exe is insane < 1297459250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are you sure? I think it's a locale-specific thing, originally just because the \ octet showed as the yen sign in shift-jis, then retained for idiot-compatibility < 1297459259 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just reading "The Tao of Programming" again :-) < 1297459264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect that it just special-cases the japanese locale but I may be wrong, perhaps for software compatibility < 1297459271 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, on XP I remember seeing it on some autoconfigure scripts. < 1297459280 0 :R0b0t1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about 7. Still haven't used it :) < 1297459311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strange how programs can drop down the leaderboard merely due to a change in the composition of the hill, not because they're being outcompeted < 1297459329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the actual truth is that it's locale-dependent) < 1297459332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a program can drop below another one that stays in much the same place < 1297459334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maglev at some point beat everything that was above it < 1297459337 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's the same in Corewar < 1297459345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't surprise me at all < 1297459347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not any more though < 1297459352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the yen and won symbols are path separators in Japanese and Korean locales, respectively < 1297459359 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it was at pos 5 it did < 1297459438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's just because of the scoring system < 1297459442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's totally correct < 1297459448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1297459457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it suddenly turns out that your big win against a major player was actually not as impressive, you should drop down < 1297459458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even because of the scoring system, it would happen with a naive scoring system too < 1297459462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not so impressive < 1297459466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure? < 1297459468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the programs that you're measured against change < 1297459479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if, say, lots of defence programs end up on the hill < 1297459484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then programs that do well vs. defence will do well < 1297459490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result, all defence programs will start dropping down < 1297459495 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i see now what you mean about defend9 guessing timings. it does an admirable job with wireless (probably due to the small offset size it uses) < 1297459505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because counter-defence stays on the hill longer < 1297459526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more counter-defence will get up there and push away programs that might be more vulnerable to it < 1297459546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why is lance so broken < 1297459557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's the worst? off-by0one errors < 1297459558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by-one < 1297459562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so sneaky and tricksy and heisenbuggy < 1297459571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet so stupidly simple < 1297459593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to amend the famous quote: < 1297459593 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits elliott with a fencepost ===========> < 1297459602 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: off by one < 1297459603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors < 1297459605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*errors. < 1297459609 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, fixed the race condition X-P < 1297459615 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neatsauce < 1297459618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU GET IT < 1297459656 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the original quote < 1297459737 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I want to intentionally throw a technical interview by answering "what is a race condition" by answering "when a bunch of programs line up in the same place and, at a signal, each start moving as fast as they can to get to the destination. Like in Tron, or Reboot." < 1297459744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things. < 1297459788 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like in Tron, or Reboot" X-D < 1297459789 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only two hard things in Computer Science: interfacing with Facebook and my sexy body. < 1297459799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1297459813 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What, do you have pooppy on ignore now? < 1297459845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, ever since the entire list of topics he talked about became "mentioning that I'm on ignore and how much better the channel is when it's nearly silent^W^Wlacking me, and complaining about Minecraft talk". < 1297459856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gets a bit irritating. < 1297459859 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm < 1297460303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that computer science joke seems to have its own local version of Muphry's Law, at least on the Internet < 1297460308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that people nearly always seem to mess them up, or at least you do < 1297460326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I copy+pasted it, and added "off-by-one errors" < 1297460334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean that I said "two" instead of "three" hard things... that's the joke. < 1297460389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean the correction to add the full stop < 1297460399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've made a typo every single time you've done that joke < 1297460410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how often have I done it? < 1297460433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:24:51 The REAL two hardest problems in CS: Cache Invalidation, Naming Things, and Off by One Errors. < 1297460434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:06 ...yes. < 1297460434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:33 when did #esoteric become #uncyclopedia < 1297460436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:55 Presumably variable is writing an Oscar Wilde language. < 1297460438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26:15 but was that off by one error caused by a cache invalidation? < 1297460440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't appear to have context < 1297460443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but er < 1297460444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: twice, or maybe three times < 1297460445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did it before me < 1297460447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi variable < 1297460552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"int foo[N];" is guaranteed to be zero-filled, right? < 1297460580 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's global... maybe < 1297460587 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget how that works < 1297460599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's global, eys. < 1297460600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes. < 1297460604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that "int foo;" is 0. < 1297460618 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1297460627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1297460636 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20:25:33 when did #esoteric become #uncyclopedia --> explain ? < 1297460651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1297460658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that _months_ ago that i quoted that < 1297460660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least week < 1297460660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1297460665 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeap < 1297460667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was also earlier today < 1297460673 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not me < 1297460686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, just now < 1297460690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it was elliott who quoted that < 1297460695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: someone did a fake abraham lincoln quote before < 1297460695 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh yes < 1297460697 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1297460697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable, in fact < 1297460703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it oscar wilde... think it was abraham lincoln < 1297460723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:23:44 â<80><9c>The problem with Internet quotations is that many are not genuine.â<80><9d> - Abraham Lincoln < 1297460723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:24:32 "Abraham Lincoln never said that." - Oscar Wilde < 1297460723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:24:51 The REAL two hardest problems in CS: Cache Invalidation, Naming Things, and Off by One Errors. < 1297460723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:06 ...yes. < 1297460723 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you didn't say the joke properly < 1297460724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25:33 when did #esoteric become #uncyclopedia < 1297460732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why no < 1297460734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1297460763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1297460774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I invented adding off by one errors to it, probably subconciouscly stole it from you < 1297460808 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things. -> no off-by-one errors part < 1297460823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: um that's what the _actual_ quote is < 1297460829 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hehe < 1297460839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I would like to amend the famous quote: < 1297460841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors < 1297460841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> *errors. < 1297460844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1297460846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<quintopia> what was the original quote < 1297460846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things. < 1297460851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: ^ < 1297460854 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah ok - I didn't read that far up < 1297460858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1297460860 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealing things from me is ok < 1297460865 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1297460869 0 :variable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like quotes < 1297460879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote stealing things from me is ok sometimes like quotes < 1297460929 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :303) stealing things from me is ok sometimes like quotes < 1297461290 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297461494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: holy shit! < 1297461499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: E17 reached 1.0 last month < 1297461512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now /that's/ more surprising than Duke Nukem Forever < 1297461528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise it was so delayed < 1297461542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since 2000 < 1297461553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's been in pretty much constant 0.0.0.0.0.000000000000000.1 release stage < 1297461569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that doesn't stop anyone using it, though, it just had a drawn-out release cycle) < 1297461613 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TheDoctor < 1297461619 0 :TheDoctor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1297462211 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1297462242 0 :nescience!~myndzi@m680e36d0.tmodns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297462255 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust mapping_turtle -(>(+)*9>(-)*9)*4>([(+)*120(+.)*16.+>]+>[(+)*120(+.)*16.->]->)*11 < 1297462279 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_mapping_turtle: 51.3 < 1297462293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS < 1297462294 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1297462310 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOES IT BURN < 1297462314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, maglev and monorail beat it no problem < 1297462368 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm just in the right sideo of the triangle-o-wins :P < 1297462370 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*side < 1297462379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust mapping_turtle -(>(+)*10>(-)*10)*4>([(+)*120(+.)*16.+>]+>[(+)*120(+.)*16.->]->)*11 < 1297462422 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_mapping_turtle: 55.2 < 1297462430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1297462433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust -(>)*8<+<-<(+)*10<(-)*10<(-)*30<<(+)*42(>)*7(>[(+)*9[-]])*20>(.+)*10000 < 1297462434 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297462437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: K w]] < 1297462438 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust maglev -(>)*8<+<-<(+)*10<(-)*10<(-)*30<<(+)*42(>)*7(>[(+)*9[-]])*20>(.+)*10000 < 1297462439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1297462455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was expecting "arson murder shit-eating turtle wanker" after your progression < 1297462461 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I momentarily hit number one LA LA LA LA NUMBER ONE ONE ONE < 1297462466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1297462466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297462467 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297462478 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_maglev: 47.7 < 1297462486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: See with lance, nothing at fucking all would change, carry on. < 1297462489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust maglev -(>)*8<+<-<(+)*10<(-)*10<(-)*30<<(+)*42(>)*7(>[(+)*9[-]])*21 < 1297462498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do better if I killed rapping_turtle, but I'm not quite that dishonest :P < 1297462500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GREGOR IS AT #1, PANIC PANIC PANIC < 1297462505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what wive? < 1297462508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with? < 1297462511 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_maglev: 47.5 < 1297462512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -(>(+)*10>(-)*10)*4>([(+)*120(+.)*16.+>]+>[(+)*120(+.)*16.->]->)*11 < 1297462515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapping_turtle < 1297462516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, that shows how badly I can typo while not concentrating < 1297462522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust maglev -(>)*8<+<-<(+)*10<(-)*10<(-)*30<<(+)*42(>)*7(>[(+)*9[-]])*20>(.+)*10000 < 1297462524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one of your wives wrote that program Gregor < 1297462526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 wants to know < 1297462529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's just a blatant 128-detector < 1297462536 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: All the turtles are. < 1297462539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLATANT, Gregor; BLATANT < 1297462548 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_maglev: 47.7 < 1297462552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that those are doing so well means that we need more fast attack programs, and that adjusting your own flag may soon be a good strategy < 1297462553 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you all go "HEY DISHONEST" if I kill crapping_turtle? < 1297462561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's dishonest < 1297462565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a valid strategy < 1297462570 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust crapping_turtle < < 1297462575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's one that does far too well in the current hill < 1297462577 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a strategy, I just don't like having old things floating around. < 1297462583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust (>)*9([(-)*128[-]]>)*20 < 1297462583 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297462586 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_crapping_turtle: 0.0 < 1297462596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shitting_tortoise (>)*9([(-)*128[-]]>)*20 < 1297462601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm carrying Gregor's naming convention on. < 1297462601 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW IS DIRK STILL ALIVE < 1297462603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since he ABANDONED it. < 1297462615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So long as you keep "tortoise" only :P < 1297462620 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_shitting_tortoise: 13.8 < 1297462626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you copyrighted "turtle"? < 1297462639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, but within the scope of BF Joust programs it's my trademark. < 1297462649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shitting_tortoise >-(>+>-)*4([(-)*128[-]]>)*20 < 1297462652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I SEE < 1297462690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, i beat defend9 < 1297462697 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_shitting_tortoise: 10.2 < 1297462723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shifting_tortoise (-)*127>+(>->+)*4([(-)*128[-]]>)*20 < 1297462731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shitting_tortoise < < 1297462747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can dirk STILL BE THERE < 1297462748 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly < 1297462751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it even possible. < 1297462753 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody knock it off. < 1297462760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1297462764 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like it only wins against programs which are overall better than it. < 1297462769 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And not already on the hill) < 1297462775 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_shifting_tortoise: 20.8 < 1297462776 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_shitting_tortoise: 0.0 < 1297462804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, dirk is too close to shitting tortoise :P < 1297462817 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dirk is shortsword with trivial modification. < 1297462820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shifting_tortoise (-)*127>+>-(>)*8([(-)*128[-]]>)*20 < 1297462839 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_shifting_tortoise: 22.4 < 1297463058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shifting_tortoise (-)*127>+>-(>)*8([(-)*64[+]]>)*10([(-)*128[-]]>)*10 < 1297463129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is shocked beyond belief to still be #1 :P < 1297463139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1297463141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1297463200 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_shifting_tortoise: 22.2 < 1297463224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust overshot (>)*15(>[(-)*127[+]])*15 < 1297463232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '[>[-]+]' '[>[+]-]' < 1297463232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :========================================== < 1297463232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody wins (0) < 1297463232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot < 1297463269 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_overshot: 1.6 < 1297463362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (-)*127[+] is ... an odd choice. < 1297463374 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since if you leave the flag as is, that'll take for friggin' ever to zero it. < 1297463380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how not to do an offset clear! < 1297463380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was aiming for mapping_turtle < 1297463389 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1297463397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember polarity :P < 1297463408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And am unsure why it only wins in one tape size < 1297463418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well sure, it'll only win in one polarity < 1297463420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like lance does basic programs perfectly, now to ping oerjan so I can get him to briefly walk me through the efficient {}% stuff < 1297463437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: His explanation that you pasted at me was perfec.t < 1297463456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's a bit vague and unassured-sounding for my tastes, but okay. < 1297463487 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1297463592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust misoffset (>)*8(>[(-)*127[+]])*21 < 1297463684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust be_well_to_strangers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[----++++] < 1297463733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:19:28 13:54:34 elliott: basically ( pushes starting count on the stack, { iterates back to matching ( or pops, } pushes like (, and ) iterates or pops < 1297463733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:19:28 13:55:13 and provided [] matches inside () and inside {} like the rule is supposedly already, it should all work < 1297463733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:19:28 13:56:05 hm i guess } and ) need to count the reverse way of ( and { < 1297463754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm Gregor do you make sure to take into account that (){} all take 0 ticks < 1297463764 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course. < 1297463768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay :P < 1297463772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily do that with... A GOTO < 1297463782 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ... a while loop :P < 1297463783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(()*100+())*100*10 < 1297463804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:19:28 13:56:05 hm i guess } and ) need to count the reverse way of ( and { < 1297463806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that supposed to mean < 1297463840 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for elliott_be_well_to_strangers: 14.7 < 1297463841 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_misoffset: 12.9 < 1297463842 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, I thought it was in reference to the fact that ({ are a matching pair and }) are a matching pair. < 1297463856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1297463877 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In his head probably he was counting up for one, then doing the middle, then counting down, but of course you don't NEED to do it that way. < 1297463905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1297463908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just reset the count < 1297463915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hayaku (>)*8(>[[+]])*21 < 1297463915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be what it is in the program < 1297463925 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1297463942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instructions in lance: < 1297463951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENDP, DINK, DONK, ONWD, RTRT, WAIT, LOOP, POOL, PARE, ERAP, ONCE, ECNO < 1297463952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best ever < 1297463955 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_hayaku: 6.6 < 1297463968 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION huggles mapping_turtle < 1297463987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hayaku (>)*8(>[(-)*11[+]])*21 < 1297464029 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_hayaku: 12.4 < 1297464045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ac (>)*8(>[(-)*11[+]]>[(+)*11[-]])*10>(-)*127[+] < 1297464118 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_ac: 12.1 < 1297464164 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ac +(>->+)*4(>[(-)*11[+]]>[(+)*11[-]])*10>(-)*127[+] < 1297464209 0 :nescience!~myndzi@m6f0e36d0.tmodns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297464209 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_ac: 23.9 < 1297464218 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eventually got it < 1297464225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, mapping_turtle is still 0.02 score higher than the second < 1297464235 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-8 < 1297464236 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting it to show up in the wifi list like my (windows 7) laptop < 1297464241 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only .02, 'snot enough < 1297464241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ac +(>->+)*4(>[(-)*11[+]]>[(+)*11[-]])*10 < 1297464243 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops wrong channel < 1297464254 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WHY YA GOTTA BRING ME DOWN < 1297464259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE < 1297464273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like jousters at the top that all my programs beat :-D < 1297464282 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297464293 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_ac: 22.1 < 1297464303 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1297464344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I should probably use a less hacky parser than I'm using now, it's insane. < 1297464347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When expanding to () :P) < 1297464492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Am I right in thinking that * and % are treated identically with these semantics? < 1297464522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I ignore which is used in egojsout :P < 1297464543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since your use of {} or not implies % or * < 1297464546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Propose, perhaps, that we deprecate % in favour of * then? < 1297464554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% is quite an ugly character. < 1297464555 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If ais523 agrees. < 1297464559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY ais523! < 1297464565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGREE TO OUR DEMANDS < 1297464581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to make the difference clearer < 1297464593 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGREE < 1297464593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think they might be different with oerjan's idea of (( {{}})%n)%n < 1297464593 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO < 1297464594 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUR < 1297464596 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEMANDS < 1297464602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you just parse them as identical? < 1297464617 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's what I do, and wtf does (({{}})) do < 1297464618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're not different with his idea < 1297464630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You handle that with the algo oerjan gave you < 1297464635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what he invented it for < 1297464636 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodie :P < 1297464645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Parsing them as identical, suuure, but redundant syntax is irksome. Especially in BF. < 1297464663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context-sensitive commands is irksome too < 1297464669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eh? < 1297464670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really care < 1297464674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ and } aren't context-sensitive the way oerjan does it. < 1297464680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ is a right bracket to ('s left. < 1297464682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a sense. < 1297464688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that } looks at the ( before it. < 1297464705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and then for the % after the matching ) < 1297464712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1297464718 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how it works in oerjan's semantics < 1297464720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you store the count in the ( < 1297464721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, how does it know how many times to repeat? < 1297464722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1297464728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could store it in the ) too, but it'd be redundant. < 1297464741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so the ( copies the count from the )% on parse? < 1297464747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1297464751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott: basically ( pushes starting count on the stack, { iterates back to matching ( or pops, } pushes like (, and ) iterates or pops < 1297464755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case % does need to be different from *, as the ( wouldn't copy the count from a )* < 1297464762 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :untrue < 1297464763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: basically ( pushes starting count on the stack, { iterates back to matching ( or pops, } pushes like (, and ) iterates or pops < 1297464794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egojsout does it this way :P < 1297464821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Do we forbid *0? I kind of like it because you can use it for comments. < 1297464825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hello, world! ...)*0 < 1297464835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I like *0 for comments too < 1297464848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as [...][comment] isn't a comment in BF Joust < 1297464858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even strip it (but I won't bother to start with since it'll be skipped over immediately). < 1297464860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes that in egojsout :P < 1297464870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fixes what, *0? < 1297464874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1297464875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, so I have to use strtol because atoi uses 0 to signal errors :P < 1297464917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite some error recovery < 1297464947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1297464953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In his head probably he was counting up for one, then doing the middle, then counting down, but of course you don't NEED to do it that way. <-- um yes you do. that's the way you ensure that jumping directly between [] in there doesn't require changing the counter stack < 1297464958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a legit return as an error return < 1297464975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, strtol allows whitespace before the number. I'll just parse it manually. < 1297464979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base 10, how hard can it be. < 1297464983 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, are you writing the new interpreter? < 1297464987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1297464994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: With efficient () parsing. < 1297465001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Note that (a{b}c)%n is now (a{b}c)*n. < 1297465005 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1297465010 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1297465017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because % turned out to be redundant. < 1297465030 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it should accept both < 1297465031 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust superfast_jellyfish +>(+)*128>>>>>>>>([-[++[(+)*15[(.-)*3]]]]>)*21 < 1297465036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Additionally, (A[B)*nC(D]E)*n is Highly Deprecated, but will be supported with a preprocessor. < 1297465039 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for compat with old programs < 1297465042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Please use {} in future programs. < 1297465046 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1297465055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Such repeats _without_ trivially-matching []s are *banned*. < 1297465055 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only used the other because the % loop failed < 1297465060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1297465076 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I wrote it and it didn't work < 1297465078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banned as in the program will literally reject them because interpreting them efficiently is ~impossible. < 1297465081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Yeah, blame egojoust :P < 1297465089 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297465104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and I think they might be different with oerjan's idea of (({{}})%n)%n <-- not that i know of < 1297465128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ((({{}})%n)*n)%n, insert commands between the parens as appropriate < 1297465129 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast does it do Defend now? :) < 1297465145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the {s couldn't tell which *s they matched if % and * were the same character < 1297465171 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't allow traversal of } and )? < 1297465190 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if everything is balanced it should be able to tell < 1297465219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure? < 1297465243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ((({{}})*)%)% has different semantics from ((({{}})%)%)* < 1297465247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fprintf(stderr, "%d : Oi -- you have a * not followed by a digit. Did your parents drop you on your head as a kid?\n", n); < 1297465247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inspired by lambdabot: < 1297465248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465248 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. < 1297465250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465250 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1297465252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming there are actual commands and numbers there) < 1297465252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465253 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. My pet ferret can type better than you! < 1297465254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465254 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. My pet ferret can type better than you! < 1297465255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465255 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Sorry about this, I know it's a bit silly. < 1297465259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465259 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1297465264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, where's the insulting ones :P < 1297465265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : { and } aren't context-sensitive the way oerjan does it. <-- actually it is slightly context-sensitive, you actually need to do that ({ and }) matching separately from the rest, so it's the _intersection_ of two context-free languages (i just thought this up while away) < 1297465265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465265 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I am sorry. < 1297465272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465272 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Do you think like you type? < 1297465278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i wasn't talking language-wise :D < 1297465278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems rather un-Haskellish < 1297465280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465281 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. That's something I cannot allow to happen. < 1297465283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465283 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. :( < 1297465285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foo < 1297465285 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Wrong! You cheating scum! < 1297465286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1297465295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up :P < 1297465298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's with the spaces in that last message? < 1297465305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src : < 1297465305 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1297465311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably the insults are in a separate list < 1297465314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no source for :? < 1297465317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the "Source not found." message < 1297465317 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop criminal scum? < 1297465318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (:) < 1297465318 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1297465325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a constructor < 1297465327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hardly surprising < 1297465329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need the ()s < 1297465333 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src nescience_shade < 1297465333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in that case % does need to be different from *, as the ( wouldn't copy the count from a )* <-- ( doesn't _have_ to be different, although either ( or ) must be slightly different i think < 1297465333 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? < 1297465334 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we not disallow (({{}}))? it seems more complicated than it's worth < 1297465335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it still needs to be declared somewhere < 1297465353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, so we still need %? < 1297465355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell Gregor < 1297465356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the thing is about knowing which */% matches which ( when parsing < 1297465358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't distinguish between them < 1297465371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the same representation at runtime I think < 1297465379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to initialise the counts differently at parsetime < 1297465385 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it belongs to the one at the proper level < 1297465412 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be missing something here because it seems obvious < 1297465418 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I came in in the middle < 1297465445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with nescience < 1297465456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you test your example with Gregor's efobfjsoust? < 1297465460 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, look who's still #1 on the hill. < 1297465465 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't distinguish * and % and implements your trick < 1297465469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what are the semantics of (({})*)% meant to be anyway? < 1297465513 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1297465526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how it makes any sense at all < 1297465533 0 :hagb4rd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd < 1297465537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. what does (a(b{c}d)*2)%2 expand to? < 1297465541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of anything that is both sensible and not super-confusing. < 1297465573 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_superfast_jellyfish: 33.6 < 1297465582 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that took wai too long :P < 1297465616 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks an awful lot like careless, what differentiates it? it seems to attack every other cell? < 1297465622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No speed complaints until lance is deployed :P < 1297465632 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUESS WHICH GUISE! shudderalikes are about to fall off the scoreboard... < 1297465647 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1297465667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance.c:182: error: a label can only be part of a statement and a declaration is not a statement < 1297465668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1297465680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Because you've been doing things in /msg and hiding things from us? :| < 1297465682 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHEY < 1297465683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirk is gone < 1297465685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "int x:"? < 1297465692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "int repeat = 0;" < 1297465697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: join my anti-/msg-submitters brigade! < 1297465699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brigade I tell you. < 1297465700 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Run clang over it :-P < 1297465701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brigade. < 1297465703 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: the innovation i was hoping would accomplish something was the [(.+)*3] thing < 1297465707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Heh < 1297465710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: ((({{}})%n)*n)%n, insert commands between the parens as appropriate <-- i consider that illegal with my implementation idea, since it would require keeping track of _which_ iteration of *n you are recursing, each time. there should intuitively be only _one_ {} for each () after expansion < 1297465711 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not since you complained this morning < 1297465721 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant mapping turtle < 1297465722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of other things) < 1297465726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, so you're just going to like < 1297465727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAMMY us < 1297465728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one god < 1297465729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*go < 1297465731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm preparing myself < 1297465733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emotionally < 1297465738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed, I mentioned a little later that it didn't make any sense < 1297465740 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks similar to careless.. just attacks +-16 and moves on < 1297465742 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1297465750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: GUESS WHICH GUISE! shudderalikes are about to fall off the scoreboard... < 1297465750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're banning {} if there's a * inside the matching %? < 1297465752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1297465768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Rather, it'll just take on whatever interpretation it takes on, since again * = % for all legal programs. < 1297465768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are shudderalikes popular because they're easy to write? < 1297465768 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, yeah. i mean. as soon as some more good programs get submitted :P < 1297465777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since illegal programs are... illegal, we can again unify * and % :P < 1297465784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1297465792 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because they succeed < 1297465808 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with the work I did the other day they should be easier to trivially beat < 1297465809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their easy-to-writeness is nice, though < 1297465813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone can write a shudder :P < 1297465828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice as in appealing. < 1297465835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : My college required two years of a foreign language as an entrance requirement; I managed to get them to accept Fortran. < 1297465841 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are actually kind of elegant < 1297465851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: lance.c:182:9: error: expected expression < 1297465851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int repeat = 0; < 1297465851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1297465851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helfpul < 1297465854 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 44 26 20.53 -20.79 impomatic_self_aware_brainfuck.bfjoust < 1297465860 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't like them because they kind of can't be successful by definition < 1297465862 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a huge disparity < 1297465863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context: < 1297465865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch (*p++) { < 1297465865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case '*': < 1297465865 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int repeat = 0; < 1297465867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that a clang message? < 1297465872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1297465873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't put a declaration there < 1297465877 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's correct :-P < 1297465880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm in C99 < 1297465880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, you can't label a declaration, only a statement < 1297465886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to put declarations EVERYWHERE < 1297465886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't matter < 1297465895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit C, I hate your guts. < 1297465897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case '*': ; int repeat = 0; < 1297465898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: switch (*p++) { int repeat; case '*': repeat = 0; < 1297465900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/ < 1297465902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, done. < 1297465904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sitll. < 1297465904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ugly. < 1297465906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still < 1297465914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare you find a legit use for the null statement < 1297465915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: hmm, so we still need %? <-- no, you can consider just whether there is matching {} inside (see previous comments) < 1297465925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance.c:181: warning: ‘repeat’ may be used uninitialized in this function < 1297465926 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: ? < 1297465927 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like typo :P < 1297465931 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'snot < 1297465932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DOUBT IT, GCC < 1297465938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't even have to, do you? < 1297465943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do the same thing for ( and ) always < 1297465967 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice < 1297465970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./lance '(abc)*0' '' < 1297465970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 : Oi -- you have a * not followed by a digit. Did your parents drop you on your head as a kid? < 1297465970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like my program's error messages when they're wrong < 1297465985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: Click a particular run in the breakdown (if you didn't already) < 1297465985 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but too hard to use on my phone < 1297465990 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1297466001 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I was supposed to enter code :) < 1297466009 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can ... < 1297466013 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You misunderstood :P < 1297466021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you do a run, it shows the breakdown. Click on an element of the breakdown < 1297466031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : can we not disallow (({{}}))? it seems more complicated than it's worth <-- it's not _that_ complicated :( < 1297466035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Would be nice if EgoJSout printed the final result of a battle. < 1297466058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do most of the algorithm just for a single level anyway < 1297466071 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice work! < 1297466075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(128(128+)128(128-)128)128" I like your debug output, Gregor, I like it a lot :P < 1297466076 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is really cool < 1297466076 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it prints everything you need to know! < 1297466088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, putting the repeat in the ) too is probably a good idea. < 1297466102 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as the author I was just asking what you did to improve on the idea in careless that was so effective < 1297466112 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't decide how sarcastic you're being :P < 1297466131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well it, er, could have less 128s in there. < 1297466138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but you need to initialise the counts differently at parsetime <-- um the counts are initialized at runtime, not parsetime < 1297466146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also for compulsive clickers like me, it's annoying clicking to the right of the playfield and having shit appear :P < 1297466148 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't have the flexibility to really take it on on my phone :P not trying to be lazy < 1297466155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, you need to initialise the value the count initialises to at parsetime < 1297466201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: decoytuner improves on careful by detecting opponents who use small decoys and using a standard offset clear in such cases < 1297466229 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :referring to mapping turtle < 1297466240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'm not sure why that one works so well at all < 1297466248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheer bloody-mindedness < 1297466250 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first glance seems very similar to careless but maybe it skips every other cell or something < 1297466255 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1297466275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's independent work, I think. < 1297466288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128 detection is a time-honoured strategy, but it never used to work well < 1297466293 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't quite mean that it wasn't < 1297466295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : e.g. what does (a(b{c}d)*2)%2 expand to? <-- _if_ it's allowed, it would be -> (ab{c}db{c}d)%2 -> ababcdbcddbabcdbcdd < 1297466298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a few people decided to try it again and it worked quite well < 1297466312 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that I think they work pretty similar so what makes the difference in the results < 1297466319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming we distinguish * and %) < 1297466349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should go all the way, and allow BF Joust programs to be generated from 1cnis progams < 1297466353 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think nesting () inside {} should be illegal if it crosses the braces < 1297466353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1297466366 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it includes either of them really < 1297466372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, we came to that consensus, I think < 1297466393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (assuming we distinguish * and %) < 1297466397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if we don't? < 1297466398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1297466398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see what sane meaning can be given to, say, (a{b)*2c}d)%2 < 1297466402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it does the obvious < 1297466408 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, I don't remember any programs much like careless.. I just noticed all the attackers were loop based and wanted to write one that wasn't < 1297466417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, (a(b{c}d)*2)%2 seems so ridiculously useless :P < 1297466426 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a wider attack range at first but I wound up narrowing it way down < 1297466427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unifying * and % is worth it < 1297466438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience: impomatic_Nyarlathotep has no control flow, IIRC < 1297466440 0 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b682a.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297466451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a tripewireless defence program < 1297466454 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it is basically a defender < 1297466459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1297466460 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant straight attack < 1297466490 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but regardless, the question is why mapping turtle scores so much better ;) < 1297466508 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I get my phone back,gonna update the rom < 1297466518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so we're banning {} if there's a * inside the matching %? <-- if we ignore the difference of * and %, then each ( must match a ) or { and each } must match a ) in that second context-free language (the first being ordinary matching of all types of brackets) < 1297466529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what i figured recently < 1297466574 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zip >>>>+<(+)*64)<(-)*64<(+)*128(>)*8([(.-)*15(.+)256[.-]])*21 < 1297466651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1297466676 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapping turtle scores so well not because it beats a lot of programs, but because it beats the *right* programs < 1297466703 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_zip: 0.0 < 1297466710 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1297466717 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i screw that up < 1297466718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can just do the same thing for ( and ) always <-- no. in * assuming the ( does not set the counter to max (i.e. it starts zero instead), then ) must increment it, while for % ) must decrement it. vice versa if ( _does_ set the counter to max < 1297466728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You don't > in the *21 < 1297466734 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297466736 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1297466738 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1297466745 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zip >>>>+<(+)*64)<(-)*64<(+)*128(>)*8([(.-)*15(.+)256[.-]]>)*21 < 1297466757 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_zip: 0.0 < 1297466763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can just do the same thing for ( and ) always <-- no. in * assuming the ( does not set the counter to max (i.e. it starts zero instead), then ) must increment it, while for % ) must decrement it. vice versa if ( _does_ set the counter to max < 1297466766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How do you handle this < 1297466778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You close two ] in the () < 1297466787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, that's right < 1297466801 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1297466808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: (.+)256 instead of (.+)*256 < 1297466813 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1297466814 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1297466819 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zip >>>>+<(+)*64)<(-)*64<(+)*128(>)*8([(.-)*15(.+)*256[.-]]>)*21 < 1297466820 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure whether that makes sense to me ... < 1297466827 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1297466834 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_zip: 1.0 < 1297466840 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, better :P < 1297466851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1297466863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ^ < 1297466873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.+)*256 seems excessive < 1297466878 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably is < 1297466892 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :135 or so would be enough < 1297466903 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zip >>>>+<(+)*64)<(-)*64<(+)*128(>)*8([(.-)*15(.+)*135[.-]]>)*21 < 1297466914 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_zip: 1.0 < 1297466936 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite enough < 1297466945 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zip >>>>+<(+)*64)<(-)*64<(+)*128(>)*8([(.-)*15(.+)*150[.-]]>)*21 < 1297466988 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_zip: 1.0 < 1297466990 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1297466993 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1297467037 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a terrible idea! < 1297467043 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1297467046 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes away now < 1297467079 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, first i want to see how the thing with the thing does... < 1297467079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and I don't see what sane meaning can be given to, say, (a{b)*2c}d)%2 <-- indeed as i said i consider all brackets needing matching in the ordinary sense. only [] could even _consider_ an exception, the way egojoust applies it < 1297467080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zap >>>>+<(+)*64)<(-)*64<(+)*128(>)*8([(.-)*15(.+)*25[.-]]>)*21 < 1297467095 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Deewiant_zap: 1.0 < 1297467133 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ITYM "crap" < 1297467147 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, I wanted an edit distance of 1 from zip < 1297467156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might've meant "zit" < 1297467157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : To be honest, (a(b{c}d)*2)%2 seems so ridiculously useless :P <-- well with a higher %n it can give exponentially sized programs < 1297467187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But can it give _reasonable_ exponentially-sized programs? < 1297467195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any way to use it without my brain stack overflowing. < 1297467203 0 :pumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :djtiesto < 1297467204 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HOWWWWWWWWWwwwwwwtf does that even mean? < 1297467245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, it even breaks Gregor. < 1297467247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON THE OTHER HAND < 1297467260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see competition getting so fierce that exponentially sized programs are worthwhile. < 1297467269 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have 100K cycles. < 1297467272 0 :djtiesto!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :copumpkin < 1297467273 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exponential programs = nonsense. < 1297467274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but note that because of the stack limit, after a certain point, large programs stop making sense < 1297467276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Untrue. < 1297467280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Consider lots and lots of control flow. < 1297467295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have a problem that consists of essentially five thousand special cases. < 1297467302 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do that with (({})*)%? < 1297467305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An exponential repeating mechanism might come in useful. < 1297467306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, ask oerjan :P < 1297467332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to < 1297467347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure whether that makes sense to me ... <-- once again, the left side of ({})% needs to increment the counter if the right side decrements it, so that matching nesting levels have the _same_ counter value, allowing jumping between [ and ] in there with no further adjustment of the counter stack < 1297467382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHHH I seeeeeeeeeeeeehmmmmmmmmmm do I handle that some other way? X-P < 1297467413 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zup (>+)*3(>)*5((+)*128<)*4(>)*5([(-.)*135(+.)*135>)*21(])*21 < 1297467430 0 :nescience!~myndzi@m760e36d0.tmodns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1297467436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: (a)*n can be considered an abbreviation for (a{})%n or ({}a)%n. each of those give different implementations of ()*n given the one for ({})%n < 1297467438 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was disallowed? < 1297467447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or (half of a{}half of a)%n < 1297467449 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_zup: 2.1 < 1297467451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's not in egojoust. < 1297467454 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1297467466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought we switched already, for some reason < 1297467518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But it looks like that one fits the form (A[B)*nC(D]E)*n, which is easily convertible to (A[B{C}D]E)*n. < 1297467521 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dominion episode! < 1297467525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I'll write a preprocessor to lance to do. < 1297467532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then summarily remove when said programs get replaced. < 1297467533 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you rather I deadblog? < 1297467551 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dominion episode? < 1297467579 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This episode seems to relate to the Dominion War < 1297467583 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, upcoming < 1297467585 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zup (>+)*3(>)*5((+)*128<)*5(>)*6([(-.)*135(+.)*135>)*21(]>)*21 < 1297467596 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ds9 < 1297467596 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1297467620 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_zup: 2.2 < 1297467638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: HOWWWWWWWWWwwwwwwtf does that even mean? <-- note that a program of _depth_ 100000 can still have size > 2^100000 after expansion, and (a(b{c}d)*2)%100000 would be an example < 1297467683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I honestly have no idea what that would even expand to, I can't argue about whether the expansion makes sense when there's no obvious expansion. < 1297467712 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember something the wiki said about these two episodes..... < 1297467719 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.16/20101130074636] < 1297467741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can you do that with (({})*)%? <-- don't know, but (...{}...{}...)% looks more plausible... < 1297467760 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: JUST SHOW ME THE DAMNED EXPANSION >_< < 1297467765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that could actually work < 1297467769 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1297467771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if { scans backwards to the last ( in-code < 1297467801 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't work in ego*, matching is static. < 1297467814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all stored in the ( < 1297467820 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do curlies do again? < 1297467831 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pooppy: (a{b}c)*2 = aabcc < 1297467837 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1297467846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean %2 < 1297467854 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not :P < 1297467869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he doesn't. < 1297467871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He means *2. < 1297467875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone forward that to crapppy. < 1297467895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think < 1297467926 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What - the - fuck < 1297467931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tell him about the ENTERPRISE LANGUAGE CHANGES, we can't have people lagging behind. < 1297467942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think oerjan: What - the - fuck < 1297467960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's not _that_ difficult to understand; first expand the inner: < 1297467968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ab{c}db{c}de)%2 < 1297467970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1297467975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ababcdbdbcdede < 1297467980 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohohohohoh, it's just like the hypothetical multi-{} < 1297467983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just type everything not in {}s twice. < 1297467986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I thought that was disallowed? <-- i don't see why empty parts of ({})% should be disallowed, it's just that it simplifies to ()* < 1297467992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, except that you can cause exponential blowup with oerjan's syntax. < 1297467997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is arguably a good thing. < 1297468005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was talking about zup, not your line < 1297468045 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think oerjan: What - the - fuck < 1297468051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I thought that was disallowed? <-- oh wait misread who you were referring to < 1297468055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quote... number... )? < 1297468057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1297468061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail quotes < 1297468063 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : actually, I think vorpal is the "retarded team member" to the left \ Deewiant: ha, you were wrong, I have stacks, fungespace and MULTIPLE functions! and a monad! nothing can stop me now! \ !bfjoust test (-)*10000 Score for Vorpal_test: 12.9 yay \ < 1297468068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those aren't quotes about tails! < 1297468072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 300 < 1297468072 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail -n1 quotes < 1297468074 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :300) The context is Gracenotes releasing an illegal copy of a film about monster cock dildos. < 1297468074 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you have legacy software in befunge that needs supported? < 1297468076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 305 < 1297468076 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1297468078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 304 < 1297468081 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1297468083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 303 < 1297468084 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1297468087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 302 < 1297468088 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :302) so you have legacy software in befunge that needs supported? < 1297468098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think oerjan: What - the - fuck < 1297468100 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :303) oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think oerjan: What - the - fuck < 1297468103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf. < 1297468112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat =addquote < 1297468113 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1297468182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: if { scans backwards to the last ( in-code <-- parsing-wise i'm thinking of this as allowing matching { and } in my second CF part, and then looking at chain matchings ( 2 { 1 } 2 { 1 } 2) < 1297468196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: =addquote? < 1297468210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A zshism, apparently < 1297468225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does it mean $(which addquote)? < 1297468228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh is so weird < 1297468229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1297468263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh builds like 50000 programs into the shell :P < 1297468293 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I would have to say I expect (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 to be a parse error < 1297468307 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zip (>+)*3(>)*5((+)*128<)*5(>)*6(([(-.)*135(+.)*135>)*21(])*21>)*21 < 1297468310 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would do innermost first < 1297468317 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one beats defend14. i checked that at least :P < 1297468322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ababcdbdbcdede <-- um no, you missed the part for db{c}d < 1297468322 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_zip: 9.4 < 1297468325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to (ab{c}db{c}de)%2 which is worng < 1297468326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wrong < 1297468327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OH NOES < 1297468364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude... you stole lance's format... < 1297468367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Left wins(-42)" < 1297468374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a space after wins and that's exactly what lance's output ends with right now :P < 1297468375 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It says "tie" when nobody wins :P < 1297468382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OH, that's not COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT then. < 1297468386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gergor < 1297468393 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'M not POSING as GREGOR. < 1297468393 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And thank you for pointing out I missed the space. < 1297468397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do outside first, then yes, it works out to ababcdbcdedbabcdbcded < 1297468417 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend13 sure is hilarious in the trace screen < 1297468417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, plus an e < 1297468477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Besides, you requested the feature. < 1297468486 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I? X-D < 1297468487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: I would have to say I expect (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 to be a parse error <-- currently we seem to be settling on unifying * and %, which means it's just interpreted as old (a(b{c}d)%2e)*2 by the matching rules < 1297468511 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does Greggsy Gregor handle {} vs normal < 1297468518 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like he seemed to imply he didn't < 1297468525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just fixed it X-P < 1297468529 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How :P < 1297468538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counting up in the left part, then down in the right part. < 1297468546 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust superfast_jellyfish +>>>>(+)*33<(-)*66<(+)*99<(-)*128>>>>>>>>([-[++[(+)*15[(.-)*3]]]]>)*21 < 1297468562 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So still no marking of whether a repeater is a {} or () style? < 1297468566 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's belief system is CRUSHED ONCE MORE. < 1297468571 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for quintopia_superfast_jellyfish: 36.8 < 1297468586 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I had to mark that in the first place. < 1297468596 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just don't distinguish * from % because I already know by then. < 1297468612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the other legal option would require allowing multiple {} (iteration counts as multiplying there) corresponding to each (), which needs a different algorithm to handle the data for exponential blowup < 1297468621 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *Gergor: < 1297468624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck < 1297468625 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, what should (a{b}c)*0 do < 1297468632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illegal < 1297468632 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Expand to the null string. < 1297468634 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like all *0s. < 1297468638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: b < 1297468638 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not b? < 1297468640 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1297468644 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welllllllllll < 1297468646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not b < 1297468648 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer it be the null string < 1297468650 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's obviously stupid :P < 1297468650 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For commenting purposes. < 1297468652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes b < 1297468656 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are not trying to make obfuscated bf code < 1297468659 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's useless. < 1297468663 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to be able to say {} in comments :P < 1297468704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: b is the _logical_ result. (a{b}c)* = a(a{b}c)*n c fits with that < 1297468704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust mostly_ripped_off_of_quintopia +>>>>(+)*33<(-)*66<(+)*99<(-)*128>>>>>>>>([-[++[(+)*15[(..-)*3]]]]>)*21 < 1297468715 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [expecting logic from coppro] < 1297468717 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1297468720 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1297468720 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for coppro_mostly_ripped_off_of_quintopia: 23.7 < 1297468722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except n should be a positive integer < 1297468764 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Err, do you stop the battle at the end of program execution? < 1297468773 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or no... wait what. < 1297468777 0 :Gergor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh