00:00:09 oerjan: C kind of lets you pop things too. 00:00:20 oerjan: sort of. 00:00:25 no, wait 00:00:25 (*:C):C 00:00:26 it doesn't 00:00:27 ignore me 00:02:45 (*::C):C if you want some infinite growth 00:04:55 oerjan: ok now write a brainfuck interpreter! with input! 00:05:05 XD 00:05:29 oerjan: if it's turing complete it's possible obviously because it means it can do anything my computer can do. 00:05:34 don't you know anything 00:05:56 I KNOW ALL 00:06:04 then why is your name mr. stupid? 00:06:11 SOMETIMES OPPOSITE THINGS 00:07:23 `addquote BLAST FROM THE PAST: my name is obviously Oerja Nilsson. Sorry for fooling you all about my gender so long. oerjan, hm, sounds Scandinavian 00:07:26 -!- cheater00 has joined. 00:08:00 i may have also mentioned that Ørja is a place name 00:08:19 oerjan: btw spot something you and Vorpal have in common on this page for a prize (hint: Flash): http://www.environment.gov.au/parks/kakadu/ (as for why I've even loaded that page, it seems that my bored web browsing has adopted the TV Tropes Model) 00:08:26 311) BLAST FROM THE PAST: my name is obviously Oerja Nilsson. Sorry for fooling you all about my gender so long. oerjan, hm, sounds Scandinavian 00:08:34 (i.e. read page, open every link in a new tab, close tab, repeat) 00:08:51 oerjan: caught me off guard when i saw it though :D 00:10:24 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:10:30 i assume you are referring to DMM 00:10:45 oerjan: well I can't imagine you and Vorpal have _two_ things in common 00:10:54 INDEED 00:12:10 hey since when does DMM have a blog :D 00:12:16 ok i thought a little bit more about :()C and it's definitely not TC: you can _never_ get below the top stack element 00:12:24 ...since always? :D 00:12:33 I'M NOT CLEVER OKAY. 00:13:05 oerjan: what pace do you recommend i archive-binge iwc btw? i've been meaning to. 00:13:24 my usual strategy is "a hundred comics a day". that might get... tiring. 00:13:25 * oerjan hasn't used archive binge 00:13:28 oh no 00:13:30 i mean it in the usual sense 00:13:37 as in 00:13:38 binging 00:13:38 an archive 00:13:44 which is what the site is named after. obviously. 00:14:03 you _do_ know Archive Binge is also on the iwc site 00:14:23 oerjan: yes. but. i am a manual man. 00:14:58 15:23:04 (hm what is a "mad science webcomic"?) 00:14:58 15:23:14 * AnMaster just reads user friendly 00:14:58 15:23:28 for the last 5 years or so 00:15:08 it's been a while since i binged web comics, but i tend to recall it as including ignoring sleep even more than usual for a few days 00:15:09 every time I get mad at Vorpal I'm just going to read some old logs and be thankful that AnMaster died 00:15:30 RIGHT 00:15:57 15:26:41 EhirD`, what? I use tor when I browse 00:15:57 wonder if that's still true 00:20:24 Various leftovers going to APNIC: 139, 140, 144, 150, 153, 157, 163, 171. 00:24:02 Latest update: 26 778 624 addresses total available there. 00:26:01 That's about 0.60 blocks after substracting 1, which means APNIC has total of something like 4.23 blocks left until final /8 policy is triggered. 00:26:51 Last 2 weeks, APNIC has blown through 0.5 blocks. 00:30:28 I should probably, like, probably, do some, like, Statistics homework 00:38:51 with high probability indeed. 00:45:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:46:09 -!- augur has joined. 00:46:10 Heh. There are servers that exist just for AXFR of '.' and some other zones, such as 'in-addr.arpa' and 'ip6.arpa'. 01:00:09 Argh, why is Xfce so good in most aspects and then so annoyingly bad in a few really important places. 01:06:32 Deewiant: So what operation did you end up using :P 01:06:41 hm 01:06:49 :t \f -> (f `flip` x) `flip` y 01:06:50 forall (f :: * -> *) b. (Functor f) => f (Expr -> Expr -> b) -> f b 01:06:55 heh 01:06:59 fuckin' hate caleskell 01:07:20 *what operator 01:07:39 yay, that indeed does the right thing 01:08:20 > let (◻) = flip in (f ◻ x ◻ y) a b 01:08:21 Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: 01:08:21 `GHC.Show.Show a' 01:08:22 a... 01:08:24 x_x 01:08:26 > let (◻) = flip in (f ◻ x ◻ y) a b :: Expr 01:08:28 f a x y b 01:08:34 wow, that actually works :D 01:08:39 oerjan: ^ 01:09:41 heh 01:10:31 that square is a bit ugly though. 01:10:32 at least here. 01:10:46 > let (◌) = flip in (f ◌ x ◌ y) a b :: Expr 01:10:48 f a x y b 01:10:50 oerjan: PLEASE FILL IN THE BLANKS 01:11:02 > let (◌) = flip in ((f ◌ x ◌ y) ◌) :: Expr 01:11:03 Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr' 01:11:03 against inferred ... 01:11:07 > let (◌) = flip in ((f ◌ x ◌ y) ◌) 01:11:08 Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> f b) 01:11:09 arising from a use of... 01:11:11 :t let (◌) = flip in ((f ◌ x ◌ y) ◌) 01:11:12 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) 01:11:15 meh :D 01:11:16 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:12:49 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:21:38 Dear asexuals of the world: *mention you're asexual before the second date kthx*. 01:22:27 o.O 01:22:41 you and Sgeo get a discussion room 01:22:51 oerjan: there's an important difference 01:22:52 * Sgeo is not asexual. 01:22:53 How many have a second date without mentioning? 01:22:56 i lol'd at what pikhq_ just said 01:23:06 I would not expect it to happen much 01:23:08 i never lol at what Sgeo says, i just stare at my irc window sadly 01:23:30 elliott: And what font size is your IRC window supposed to be ??????????????????????????????? 01:23:38 ... 01:24:10 I am lolling at ellipsises 01:24:14 This is scary 01:24:25 an elliptic response 01:26:23 Dear Jews of the world: *mention you're Jewish before the second date kthx*. 01:26:25 pikhq_ -- ANTISEMITE? 01:27:14 BTW: First currently actually allocated for use unicast IPv4 address: 1.9.1. For IPv6, that address would be 2001:200::1 01:27:24 pikhq_, should abstinence-only people mention the abstinence thing before the second date too? When does that sort of thing come out? 01:28:56 Probably they should mention. If they have a second date yes they should mention before second date 01:29:41 I have some reason to believe KT-AT may be abstinence-only, but I'm not certain 01:32:25 The last addresses are 223.255.251.254 (by APNIC) and 2C0F:FFF8:0010:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF (by AFRINIC). Both of those first addresses were by APNIC. 01:33:50 Gregor: Does c2bf still work? 01:34:01 "No, it broke." 01:35:39 The good/bad thing about abstinence-only people is that if/when they finally "break down", the result could very well be you know what. :-/ 01:35:49 -!- iconmaster has left (?). 01:35:52 Ilari: DEATH??? 01:37:26 Or a new birth in about 9 months? 01:38:08 Well if you want to be LOGICAL about it. 01:38:18 But I'm fairly sure being logical about things is a bannable offence here. oerjan? 01:38:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:39:48 THAT WOULD BE ILLOGICAL 01:39:54 WHICH IS WHY IT'S THE POLICY 01:40:17 VERY INTUITIVE 01:40:58 Did you consider nothing-only people? 01:41:16 oerjan: DID YOU 01:42:09 I NEVER CONSIDER NOTHING ONLY 01:42:17 oerjan: bracist 01:42:26 WHAT 01:42:28 YEAH 01:42:30 YOU HEARD ME 01:42:31 JEWMEISTER 01:42:54 curiously, i am not aware of any jewish ancestry 01:43:08 oh suuure 01:43:18 of minorities, sami would be more likely, but i cannot recall hearing about that either 01:43:28 Maybe mention the variant of Underload in the wiki. 01:43:39 oerjan hasn't done enough interesting things with it for that yet :D 01:43:47 heh 01:43:59 elliott: C2BF never worked :P 01:44:14 Gregor: But I'm reading me writing malloc in it in the logs and you saying that it is NOT AVAILABLE ANYWHERREEE 01:44:29 Huh? 01:44:30 Dammitt I wish Amazon was like Google 01:44:41 I want to search for books with this in the title that were published before 2000 01:44:57 I know there's plenty of woo books about this subject, but I'm looking for one specific woo book 01:45:57 http://9gag.com/gag/78952/ lollercopters 01:46:21 Or maybe they changed the title since I've read it 01:46:28 This chapter list looks very familiar 01:46:36 I do remember some of the stories 01:47:01 Including one bit of testimony from a guy who should have won a Darwin award 01:49:54 Gregor: Eh? 01:53:08 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:53:55 How often do you think the "mail" command and "write" command is used in UNIX systems now? 01:54:33 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 02:08:37 zzo38: Approximately once every never. 02:08:58 i've used mail 02:09:09 write though... never :P 02:09:10 well 02:09:13 i think i used it to bug cpressey once. 02:09:22 or did i just use wall. 02:10:25 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 02:10:37 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 02:10:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:11:03 139 ++++++++++[>++++>+++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>>++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.<++++.>>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [329] 02:11:08 lol terrible 02:11:09 Sgeo: Let's just say that having little interest in a romantic relationship is a bit of a dealbreaker for a romantic relationship. 02:11:22 pikhq: asexual != aromantic 02:11:23 kthxbai 02:11:29 elliott: She is also aromantic. 02:11:36 pikhq: ...and she's... going out on dates? 02:11:41 pikhq: Does she just like to torture people? 02:11:52 elliott: I was her first! 02:12:07 pikhq: Your last line, it is unparseable. 02:12:17 elliott: I was her first date. Ever. 02:12:32 pikhq: Did she figure out in-between the two dates that she was aromantic or something? :-P 02:12:41 Apparently. 02:12:46 "This pikhq guy is really gross. I think I'm going to stay away from people. Forever." 02:12:48 !bf_txtgen te3d7pYKTdXVZbUrTpndwNgERsthIWL5 02:12:53 306 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>-.>>---.<-.>-.<++++.<----.>>>--.<<++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++.>.>-.--.++++.<--.>-----.<<<++.>.<--.--.>>++.<<+++++++++.>>>-------.<+++.>---------.<<--.<----.+.>>+.>++++.<<+++++.>>+++.-----------------------.-------------------------------------------. [836] 02:13:31 Needless to say, this has been a fairly awkward day. 02:13:42 pikhq: Condolences on your... awkward :P 02:13:59 pikhq: This is why in Europe we just get shamans to arrange our marriages instead of going on dates. 02:14:17 While beating sticks and rocks together and wearing insufficient clothing to count as civilised. 02:15:51 YES 02:16:01 The Empire State Building was built with a zeppelin dock. 02:16:07 ... 02:16:10 THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING 02:16:18 http://ephemeralnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/empirestatebuilding1.jpg 02:16:37 QUICK, SOMEBODY BUY A ZEPPELIN. 02:16:48 pikhq: I like how it looks tiny in that picture :P 02:17:45 -!- MickyBo87 has joined. 02:25:34 But ... 02:25:40 You can't get off a Zeppelin from ... the front tip ... 02:25:49 At FreeGeek I use the "mail" command (I even have it in my login script). I also used "write" once there. I also use "dc" there whenever I want to make a quick calculation. 02:26:03 I use dc now and then. 02:26:16 I happen to like dc 02:27:14 I use ghci as my calculator :P 02:27:47 They have Ubuntu but I only use the command shell for everything (except Redmine, since that won't work with the command shell). It is often useful to load multiple tabs for the command shell. 02:28:08 isn't redmine a bug tracker thing 02:28:37 elliott: Yes it is. That is what they use there for bug tracker and feature tracking. 02:29:15 you could use w3m or links in the command shell to access redmine. 02:30:17 The first time you log in requires your name and email. The name is in the account list anyways though, but I still had to fill it in. I filled in "black@yew" for email but it wouldn't accept that so the system administrator told me to add ".shop.lan" afterward and it accepted that. However I don't use the email of that anyways, so it doesn't matter what is typed there. 02:31:17 I also put "echo fortune | nc -q -1 zzo38computer.cjb.net 70" into my login script as well. 02:31:53 They do not have a local copy of "fortune" 02:32:25 What I cannot figure out is how to make it start the Terminal window maximized. Do you know how? 02:32:32 why start X11? 02:32:38 you don't need it if you only want to use the shell 02:32:44 just use Ctrl+Alt+F1 02:32:48 (up to F6 is generally available) 02:32:53 (so you can use multiple terminals) 02:32:58 this uses the PC's console 02:33:10 elliott: I cannot do that if I push Ctrl+Alt+F1 I cannot login there. It is LTSP and you cannot login LTSP in that way. 02:33:23 LTSP? 02:33:27 oh. lame :P 02:34:23 What does work is to login to fg-utility and then install secure shell and connect that way. 02:35:12 zzo38 clearly attends the Lutheran Theological Seminary at Philidelphia 02:35:16 -!- augur has joined. 02:35:25 augur, zzo38 is Lutheran 02:35:43 ok 02:35:47 ? 02:35:56 fg-utility is loaded from the network and then runs locally with a temporary filesystem. 02:36:10 Sgeo: I am not Lutheran, actually. And I do not attend that seminary either. 02:36:12 [Note: He is not actually] 02:36:12 augur: ok? 02:36:18 ok?? 02:36:23 ok 02:36:27 zzo38 is totally Lutheran 02:36:28 yes 02:36:30 ok 02:37:15 elliott: No I am not Lutheran, actually. 02:37:19 prove it 02:38:23 How to prove it? 02:39:13 True or false: What is the bus driver's name? 02:39:24 Floyd 02:39:25 False. 02:39:29 False McKinnelly. 02:39:38 -!- zzo38 has set topic: True or false: What is the bus driver's name? | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 02:39:58 Gregor: OK. Where is the bus going? 02:40:03 zzo38: True. 02:40:04 True, Arizona. 02:40:21 OK. 02:40:23 Now I know. 02:40:51 And knowing is half the action figure doll! 02:41:26 How can I prove not to be Lutheran? 02:42:15 Impossibly. 02:45:56 OK, fine. I am agnostic. 02:46:25 Aaaw, I prefer atheism. 02:46:33 We do prayers to Athe, the God of No God. 02:46:46 pikhq: That is OK. You can be atheism if that is what you like to be. 02:47:02 So much better than Agnos, the God Devoid of All Knowledge. 02:48:19 Some people is atheist and some agnostic, and some more religious people. Even some scientists are religious, which is OK, but you still have to remember, assuming God exists is not how you are supposed to do science! 02:48:37 Atëism 02:48:57 00:38:30 Here's a simple program that outputs 2^(2^65536) bytes. Add another '+' to the start and it will output 2^(2^(2^65536)) bytes, and so on. 02:48:57 00:38:44 +++++++[>>+<[>[>+<-]>[<++>-]<<-]>[<+>-]<<-]>[.-] 02:48:57 00:41:07 (Naturally, this assumes integer cells as in ihope's challenge. And it's way too tidy to be the best answer for this length.) 02:48:57 nice 02:49:05 we should resurrect that competition 02:49:20 oerjan: Is it different language that you put two dots for atheistm? 02:49:20 `addquote Some people is atheist and some agnostic, and some more religious people. Even some scientists are religious, which is OK, but you still have to remember, assuming God exists is not how you are supposed to do science! 02:49:31 atheistm? saying that is against my religion 02:49:46 Oooooh, this almond soda is spectacular! 02:49:56 Gregor: ...O_O 02:49:58 Gregor: Send me some. 02:50:05 I misread that as secular 02:50:11 zzo38: no. it's a pun. 02:50:27 oerjan: What pun is that? Is it a pun in a different language? 02:50:40 poor oerjan 02:50:46 Gregor, you don't have any soda that believes in God? 02:50:51 zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At%C3%AB 02:50:52 Do you have any secular almond soda? 02:50:58 Soda is incapable of such beliefs. 02:50:59 02:51:01 311) Some people is atheist and some agnostic, and some more religious people. Even some scientists are religious, which is OK, but you still have to remember, assuming God exists is not how you are supposed to do science! 02:51:25 Gregor: I WANT ALMOND OSLDEORIJSH 02:51:34 Gregor: Does it taste like liquid marzipan oh god 02:51:37 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 02:52:08 O, it is the Greek gods. And it is the ruin, folly, delusion, action performed by hero. Now I know! 02:53:23 -!- MickyBo87 has left (?). 02:53:31 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:53:33 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:57:31 http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1989-08-09/ 03:11:22 @hoogle a -> a -> Bool 03:11:23 Prelude (<) :: Ord a => a -> a -> Bool 03:11:23 Prelude (<=) :: Ord a => a -> a -> Bool 03:11:23 Prelude (>) :: Ord a => a -> a -> Bool 03:11:41 pikhq_: what's that unsafe ghc thing to decide if two objs have the same memory location :p 03:13:11 elliott: Dunno. 03:17:38 * pikhq_ is still WTF'ing at tday. 03:17:40 Today, even. 03:18:21 @hoogle a -> a -> IO Bool 03:18:21 Control.Concurrent.MVar tryPutMVar :: MVar a -> a -> IO Bool 03:18:22 Data.HashTable update :: HashTable key val -> key -> val -> IO Bool 03:18:22 Control.Concurrent.MVar swapMVar :: MVar a -> a -> IO a 03:18:47 @@ @elite @read @run wordsWise (map reverse) @show @keal 03:18:48 Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse 03:18:53 @@ @read @elite @run wordsWise (map reverse) @show @keal 03:18:54 Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse 03:19:01 oerjan: your code sample of ages ago no longer works. 03:19:11 hum? 03:19:20 17:14:02 @@ @read @elite @run wordsWise (map reverse) @show @keal 03:19:20 17:14:15 * oerjan runs after Wong with an axe 03:19:20 17:15:06 Does that make sense? 03:19:20 17:15:26 actually i switched @read and @elite 03:19:20 17:15:35 as for the output, certainly not :D 03:19:23 17:20:07 Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse 03:19:25 17:20:35 Oh, swapping them yields sense. 03:19:26 17:21:07 yeah, @read needs a well-formed "string" 03:19:29 17:21:18 which @elite certainly does not give 03:19:31 17:21:34 So it grabs a Keal quote, reverses every word, and leets the thing? 03:19:33 17:21:40 yep 03:19:34 also, it's not -> IO Bool 03:19:36 it's -> Bool 03:19:38 (it ends with a #, so all bets are off) 03:19:46 elliott: i'd expect wordswise needs a definition 03:19:53 *wordsWise 03:20:11 @let wordsWise f = unwords . f . words 03:20:13 Defined. 03:20:14 @@ @elite @read @run wordsWise (map reverse) @show @keal 03:20:16 |13xs4H 5Y4\/\/lA dIA5 deNiph3dNu 03:20:18 @@ @elite @read @run wordsWise (map reverse) @show @keal 03:20:20 y||Autca TI guB ni h+a/\/\ 03:20:21 oerjan: very well then 03:20:22 @@ @elite @read @run wordsWise (map reverse) @show @keal 03:20:24 Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse 03:20:27 fail :D 03:25:35 there may be some trouble for some particular quotes, i vaguely recall 03:25:35 maybe very long ones, losing the final " on the string 03:25:35 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:25:35 -!- clog has quit (ended). 03:25:39 -!- clog has joined. 03:25:39 -!- clog has joined. 03:28:05 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:28:20 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:29:24 Yup, still WTF'ing. 03:30:23 pikhq: You can stop WTFing now. 03:30:28 It isn't _that_ much of a WTF :P 03:32:24 elliott: BAH 03:32:38 elliott: I WILL WTF AT ANYTHING I FEEL LIKE AS LONG AS I FEEL LIKE. 03:32:48 s/WT// 03:32:49 I shall, in fact, WTF at the letters WTF now. 03:32:50 pikhq: ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH 03:33:10 elliott: Someone's watched Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann recently, eh? :P 03:33:11 world tapdancing foundation 03:33:23 no? 03:33:25 It's a meme :P 03:33:28 I thought it was a 4chan meme... 03:33:34 Sgeo: It's lyrics. 03:33:34 World Tapdancing FEDERATION 03:33:40 Gregor: MUST 03:33:40 BE 03:33:41 ESTABLISHED 03:33:48 Gregor: O KAY 03:33:51 It must be as ridiculous as professional wrestling. 03:33:58 I'm talking about: tapdancing so hard the other guy just FALLS OEVR. 03:34:00 *OVER. 03:35:18 Sgeo: From the song "ラップは漢の魂だ! 無理を通して道理を蹴っ飛ばす! 俺たち大グレン団のテーマを耳の穴かっぽじってよ~く聴きやがれ!!" from the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann soundtrack. 03:35:35 That title... 03:35:39 DO THE JAPANESE HAVE NO SENSE OF SCALE 03:35:42 ("Rap is a Man's Soul! We Kick Reason to the Curb to Make the Impossible Possible! Open up Your Ears and Listen to Our Team Dai-Gurren Theme!!") 03:35:47 ...evidently not 03:35:50 elliott: No, the series has no sense of scale. 03:36:15 It's a mecha anime. That doesn't take itself even slightly seriously. 03:36:33 It ends with a mech orders of magnitude larger than galaxies. 03:37:23 I was under the impression that the mecha-anime-that-doesn't-take-itself-even-slightly-seriously market was completely covered for the next hundred years by FLCL :P 03:37:38 No, Gainax decided to outdo themselves. 03:38:07 I love how the popup notification displays the characters correctly, but the XChat window doens't 03:38:22 "You know what we got wrong last time? Yeah, SEVERAL SENTENCES were semi-coherent." 03:38:24 "We should fix that!" 03:38:36 Oh, it's entirely coherent. 03:38:47 That doesn't help. 03:38:51 Is Gainax the one that made Neon Genesis Evangelion? 03:38:54 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:38:59 Sgeo: Yes. 03:39:23 Can we just forget Evangelion exists and/or ever existed? 03:39:37 I still haven't seen the movies 03:39:53 Or the what's her name movie 03:40:01 Suzumiya Haruhi 03:40:01 There is a limit to the amount of pseudo-intellectual Christian symbolism wankery I can handle, and nobody's shut up yet. 03:40:25 Angels as evil.. um 03:40:40 They're taking the symbols and making them not symbolic of anything, as far as I'm concerned 03:40:52 elliott: Well, almost any Christian symbolism coming out of Japan is going to be bizarre, psuedo-intellectual wankery. 03:40:54 Sgeo: But, duuuude. 03:40:56 It's 03:40:56 so 03:40:57 deep 03:40:57 and 03:40:59 meaningful 03:40:59 and 03:41:00 oh 03:41:02 my 03:41:04 god 03:41:06 the 03:41:08 best 03:41:10 work 03:41:12 of 03:41:12 What with Japan having negative understanding of the tenants. 03:41:14 fiction 03:41:16 in 03:41:18 this 03:41:22 entire 03:41:24 fucking 03:41:26 universe 03:42:31 10:50:25 Of course, figuring out roundabouts AT ALL was still pretty tough :P 03:42:33 haha Gregor is stupid 03:42:45 they're simple, you go around and around and around and around and when you get so dizzy you're gonna vomit, turn randomly 03:42:49 repeat until you end up where you want to be or die 03:42:58 YOU HAVE FUCKING ROUNDABOUTS OF ROUNDABOUTS 03:43:03 ONLY IN SWINDON 03:43:20 Gregor: Beats the US model, i.e. LET'S PILE ROADS ON TOP OF EACH OTHER 03:43:43 elliott: Well, almost any Christian symbolism coming out of Japan is going to be bizarre, psuedo-intellectual wankery. <-- i guess they are treating it about like we treat greek or norse mythology... 03:43:49 oerjan: Worse. 03:43:54 [butthurt about norse mythology] 03:44:01 im a viking 03:44:06 a meaningful viking 03:44:12 im "in tune" with my viking ancestry 03:44:42 i only added "norse" as an afterthought, actually... 03:44:50 oerjan: We're at least likely to be aware of what the Greek and Norse gods *stand for*. 03:44:58 i was into norse mythology 03:45:01 before it was cool. 03:45:11 oerjan: Japan sometimes has Satan as a force of good. 03:45:19 Why? Hell if I know. 03:45:19 funny, so does Norway 03:45:25 i _did_ have a norse mythology book as a child, i think 03:45:32 pikhq: i dunno, satan sounds like a chiller guy than god :D 03:45:39 Oh, Shin Megami Tensei. Where the final boss is God. 03:45:44 he killed way less people in the bible. also, as has been scientifically proven, hell is colder than heaven 03:46:02 also: accommodates all the cool people in hell. 03:46:05 pikhq, sounds like one of the storylines in my head! 03:46:13 also, is way more metal. see: horns. 03:46:20 Well, not quite 03:46:25 I dunno, man. Jesus is pretty fucking metal. 03:47:01 pikhq: WELL THEN MAYBE JESUS AND SATAN SHOULD TEAM UP. 03:47:04 And have a fucking party. 03:47:07 FORM A FUCKING BAND 03:47:17 CAN YOU THINK OF ANY DOWNSIDE TO THIS IDEA 03:47:58 Curiously, Japanese depictions of things related to Christianity tend to completely omit Jesus. 03:48:14 Y'know, the one thing really seperating Christianity from a sect of Judaism. 03:48:26 Erm, from being a. 03:50:57 I dunno, man. Jesus is pretty fucking metal. <-- a mecha adonis, you mean? 03:51:26 we should ban oerjan . 03:51:28 *oerjan. 03:51:48 walk -> 03:52:08 * pikhq declares that Deus Est Machina need be more common. 03:52:28 -!- aloril has joined. 03:54:19 omg 03:54:23 we need to make a road system 03:54:26 based entirely around roundabouts 03:54:27 of roundabouts 03:54:29 no straights 03:54:31 Gregor: WHAT DO YOU THINK 03:56:06 I feel discriminated against! 03:56:15 We need hover cars. 04:00:21 We need to end use of cars in the US. 04:00:41 Step one: relocate most of the continent. 04:00:58 in case anyone hasn't noticed, the Watson crew are feeling questions in r/IAmA right now 04:01:07 *fielding 04:01:10 Everyone sane in the US needs to get out of the US so that we can all forget the US exists :P 04:01:23 And then nuke it. 04:01:28 With the US's own nukes. 04:02:26 I have an excellent plan for making the nice parts of the US happy and the bad parts ignorable, but it involves Cascadia, mass migration to several countries, taking over the UK, and requesting that the European Union do something absolutely ridiculous. 04:02:31 (I really did work it out.) 04:02:58 That "something ridiculous" is? 04:03:11 pikhq: Admit a country that is quite plainly not in Europe. 04:03:34 elliott: Membership in the EU in no way requires being in Europe. 04:03:50 pikhq: (The idea was to invade some random European country that nobody cares much about -- say Italy -- whereby invade I mean "everyone migrates there, forms the Invasion Party, and votes for it" -- and then use that EU position to lobby for Canadia's interests.) 04:04:04 This is the official opinion of the European Council, in fact. 04:04:12 Canadia being the result of Cascadia joining with Canada to form the Canadian and Cascadian Union, AKA Canadia. 04:04:15 pikhq: WELL THAT SIMPLIFIES THINGS. 04:04:54 you just need to be European 04:04:56 pikhq: (At the very end, Canadia manages to semi-accidentally adopt the UK's royal family, thus inverting the Commonwealth X-D) 04:05:02 (By taking over the UK.) 04:05:04 quintopia: what is r/IAmA? 04:05:17 http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/ 04:05:27 oh 04:05:45 tomorrow I'm flying out of Toronto to Denver; I'm going to ask why I have to go through customs 04:05:52 Denver, eh? 04:06:40 yeah, that's the same country as Toronto, right? 04:07:25 they actually explained how it made that mistake today at the lecture 04:07:33 what mistake 04:07:53 yeah, it was discussed to length at the math society 04:08:01 Watson was confident that it was supposed to be looking for a city in the U.S., and it found evidence both that Toronto was a city, and a U.S. entity. 04:08:05 elliott: To join the EU, a nation must be European *in the judgement of the European Council*. 04:08:13 quintopia: X-D 04:08:16 just not enough for it to be sure it was a U.S. city 04:08:21 elliott: This has been interpreted to mean "culturally European". 04:08:24 hence all the question marks 04:08:33 pikhq: What the fuck does culturally European mean X-D 04:08:42 quintopia: Did it answer "Toronto???????????????????????????"? 04:08:45 elliott: I don't know, ask the European Council. 04:08:49 elliott: yes 04:08:52 quintopia: :D 04:08:53 along with a very low wager 04:08:56 quintopia: why didn't i watch this 04:09:03 I DUNNO??????????????????????????? 04:09:11 quintopia: could it not find something that was definitely a U.S. city? 04:09:17 seems like the kind of information that would always be included... 04:09:21 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:09:49 elliott: chicago was actually it's second highest rated choice, but it couldn't prove that was a U.S. city either :P 04:09:52 pikhq: honestly, I am glad the EU doesn't require actually europeanness 04:09:54 *its 04:09:56 nice :D 04:10:02 elliott: And the thing is, this *actually matters*. 04:11:26 Cyprus, an EU member state, is in Asia. 04:11:57 In fact, it's closer to the Middle East than anything else. 04:14:00 ...wow :P 04:15:19 Not to mention it's been suggested Israel could join if they, y'know, stop with the apartheid. 04:16:17 Canada 4 EU 04:16:35 (Pronounced "CANADA FOR YOU!") 04:17:29 Canada for ewwwww. 04:17:40 Also, before 1992 there were no formal requirements for EU membership. 04:18:42 (okay, so it *technically* wasn't the EU until then, but the same damned institutions have existed since the 50s in some form.) 04:19:49 if any modern entity goes on to be a world government, it will be the EU 04:20:21 (the UN does not count as a world government) 04:20:38 Unless the UN completely reforms itself, that seems quite likely. 04:21:09 I'm not saying the EU necessarily will do - I doubt it will. But definitely has the best shot out of anything that currently exists. 04:21:48 There's a few other such things that technically *could*. 04:22:01 But aside from the Commonwealth and the EU, none of them matter at all. 04:22:29 The African Union would if Africa didn't suck so bad. :P 04:22:40 The Commonwealth isn't really governmental 04:22:40 World government, sounds like a GREAT idea :P 04:22:50 coppro: It's vaguely close. 04:22:56 I'm being loose here. :P 04:23:09 I suppose it could be if people really watned 04:23:10 *wanted 04:23:19 but it's moving away from unity, not towards it 04:23:30 yeah, the African Union might if Africa wasn't broken 04:23:36 Actually, it's gotten a few new members. 04:24:10 (there is no requirement that members be a former British colony. At all.) 04:25:06 isn't the only requirement the Queen? 04:25:11 No. 04:25:31 Only some Commonwealth nations are monarchies. 04:25:48 ur mom is a monarchy 04:25:51 ah, neat 04:26:02 The requirement is saying "Yeah, I guess the commonwealth is pretty cool." 04:26:20 Gregor: And the Commonwealth saying "Yeah, I guess that country is pretty cool." 04:26:35 coppro: Though, of course, membership does require some acknowledgement of the UK throne. After all, Her Majesty is Head of the Commonwealth. 04:26:57 ah, ok 04:28:04 We cool? 04:28:07 We cool. 04:28:17 (this role, though, is entirely distinct from any nobility, except by the "coincidence" that it's a hereditary position that started with King George VI, and has the same rules of ascension as the throne.) 04:29:35 UTTER COINCIDENCE 04:31:01 If you want to use TeX formats invented by Christians, use Plain TeX. However, I do not think the religion of its author is a good way to decide what to use. I decide to use Plain TeX for its own reasons. 04:31:13 elliott: lol 04:31:21 Gregor: wat 04:31:27 ...oh. 04:31:38 Gregor: was that in reference to the line above the line you made. 04:31:42 At the thing before the last thing you said before I said the last thing I said :P 04:31:49 `addquote If you want to use TeX formats invented by Christians, use Plain TeX. However, I do not think the religion of its author is a good way to decide what to use. I decide to use Plain TeX for its own reasons. 04:31:51 Gregor: Wat 04:32:17 312) If you want to use TeX formats invented by Christians, use Plain TeX. However, I do not think the religion of its author is a good way to decide what to use. I decide to use Plain TeX for its own reasons. 04:32:18 elliott: Exactly. 04:32:29 Gregor: You're not secretly zzo38, by any chance? 04:33:52 `quote 04:33:53 197) (I've just been playing with myself.) 04:33:54 Why, pray tell, do I find the trappings of nobility so fascinating? 04:34:17 In spite of finding nobility itself a horribly outmoded concept? 04:34:54 I'm of the opinion that a constitutional monarchy is a very sane system of government 04:35:04 pikhq: Because everyone on IRC has to feel special SOMEHOW :P 04:35:17 elliott: NO I DON'T. BECAUSE I'M SPECIAL. 04:35:21 elliott: :P 04:35:26 coppro: Oh? 04:35:34 by investing the reserve power in someone who can lose nothing but face by exercising them, it keeps them from being abused 04:35:57 The single advantage of monarchy is that if you don't have it, you get the same worship directed to the upper class and politicians. 04:36:11 But that is... very little argument. 04:36:24 What coppro said makes no sense; there is no need for power that should never be used to exist. 04:36:43 elliott: Are you sure? 04:36:49 zzo38: What? 04:37:06 elliott: And a monarchy is pretty much always in the limelight, giving them little incentive to do things that are remarkably stupid. 04:37:20 Erm, monarch? 04:37:20 ^ 04:38:05 elliott: It's a hell of a lot easier to respect the nobles of the UK than the more-notorious members of the US upper class, simply by merit of them having *done things worthy of respect*. 04:38:33 And easier still with Japanese nobility, as many of them are published scientists. 04:38:36 :P 04:38:49 This debate is rather stillborn as coppro can't see anything I say. 04:38:53 So I'll step out. 04:40:12 coppro: Y'know, in the few cases that a monarch in, say, the UK could exercise the reserve power, so could an elected figure. 04:40:16 coppro: Even if the law didn't say so. 04:40:36 ^ yes, but they would be more subject to political pressure 04:40:45 coppro: Because, quite obviously, the public would be so in support of it that they wouldn't *give a fuck* about what the legal system says. 04:41:35 pikhq: There was a case recently in canada where we came close here 04:41:35 Eh, I guess I'd call a constitutional monarchy "ultimately not worth objecting to much". 04:42:03 Monarch as a mere symbol of the state? Just... Straight-up doesn't matter that much. 04:42:10 Bit extraneous, perhaps, but meh. Whatever. 04:42:16 exactly 04:42:52 Though the UK's particular implementation is all sorts of nuts. :P 04:42:59 true 04:43:14 The Queen's power is mostly limited by tradition! 04:45:39 "Firefox 4 is code-named Tumucumaque, after the world's largest rainforest park." 04:45:48 Oh man, that's gonna be a mouthful in Linux title bars. 04:46:02 Do you want to set your default browser to Tumucumaque? 04:46:11 `quote 04:46:12 102) Sgeo_: Gregorr: and someone could, by mistake, rewrite psox to be a weak erection if it is... A filename. 04:47:34 Do you know any shogi variants? 04:55:47 I am going to bed in like two seconds. 04:56:12 zzo38: Chess. 04:56:20 Oh snap. 04:56:49 pikhq: I mean others played like shogi, but different. 04:57:02 Chess. 04:57:19 One thing I do not like in chess is the tall pieces, I prefer the flat pieces like Xiangqi and Shogi uses. 04:57:38 Tic-tac-toe. 04:57:47 Like shogi, but _very_ different. 04:58:13 :D 04:58:20 Can you design a game a cross between shogi and tic-tac-toe? 04:58:30 Yes. It's called shogi-tac-toe. 04:58:36 You play a game of shogi and a game of tic-tac-toe simultaneously. 04:58:38 Whoever wins one, wins. 04:58:47 Any quests or questions? 04:59:30 But tic-tac-toe will end much sooner? And probably ties anyways. So then it is like shogi. Isn't it? 04:59:51 Yes. 04:59:53 It's like shogi, but different. 04:59:54 Because, if you tie, does the entire game end in a tie, or do you continue playing shogi until someone wins at shogi? 04:59:55 And a cross. 04:59:57 SO I DID WHAT YOU SAID 04:59:59 zzo38: Continue playing. 05:00:06 If both tie, both contestants must commit suicide. 05:01:12 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:01:34 By putting on your tie too tight? Or in what way? 05:03:06 zzo38: What do YOU think? 05:03:58 elliott: I think that unless you specifically want to commit suicide, you won't actually do so because instead you will agree not to. 05:07:03 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:07:12 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 05:07:12 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:16:25 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:17:03 I think I have now finally finished two files, "texnicard.w" and "texnicard_format.tex". Now I just have to finish "plain.cards" as well. 05:32:02 oerjan: what pace do you recommend i archive-binge iwc btw? i've been meaning to. <-- divide in 7. Spread it out over a single week 05:32:29 um... 05:32:48 wonder if that's still true <-- no, not generally 05:33:29 Vorpal: that seems rather higher than the hundred comics a day he mentioned as too excessive 05:33:47 with high probability indeed. <-- for a good pun in that context you would need something about statistical significance. 05:33:59 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:34:11 oerjan, oh I missed that bit 05:34:39 i.e. that would give about 30 days 05:34:47 oerjan, I read iwc back then spread out over like two nights 05:34:57 was summer holidays though I think 05:35:10 also it is of course significantly longer 05:35:15 nowdays 05:36:57 i think i started in autumn 2006 when ther were only around 1300 comics 05:37:09 *there 05:37:24 now it's soon about to pass the 3000 mark 05:40:35 zzo38: Bughouse chess. 05:41:38 bbl university 05:54:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 06:18:01 -!- Lymia_ has joined. 06:18:15 -!- Lymia has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:18:17 -!- Lymia_ has changed nick to Lymia. 06:18:18 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 06:18:18 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:38:34 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:40:04 -!- Lymia_ has joined. 06:42:08 -!- Lymia has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:42:09 -!- Lymia_ has changed nick to Lymia. 06:42:10 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 06:42:10 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:44:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:41 -!- Lymia_ has joined. 08:09:50 -!- Lymia has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:09:51 -!- Lymia_ has changed nick to Lymia. 08:09:52 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 08:09:52 -!- Lymia has joined. 08:35:50 -!- Lymia_ has joined. 08:37:51 -!- Lymia has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:37:52 -!- Lymia_ has changed nick to Lymia. 08:37:52 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 08:37:52 -!- Lymia has joined. 08:53:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 09:38:53 Gregor: http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/ejsoutTapeMap.js + http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/egojsout.js.patch.txt -- you get to integrate(tm) it in better if you want to have it. Since the tape-map is a collected thing over all tape lengths and polarities, I didn't put it in with the debugFunctions thing but instead spliced the statistics-collecting in directly. 09:40:29 Looks like http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/ejstape.png since I just plonked the canvas in wherever it happened to go. 09:41:47 Log-scaling the colors might look interesting too, currently it's often quite a "binary" output. 09:42:03 It's also not the most easiest thing ever to read. 09:43:17 My blue/red colors are the opposite of the animations, also; the red parts are where the left program spent time. 11:04:28 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:04:43 -!- cheater- has joined. 12:54:03 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:54:33 -!- Lymia has joined. 13:08:00 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:10:37 -!- cheater- has joined. 13:13:26 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:14:12 are the white parts the average decoy heights? 13:24:28 fizzie: I predict a whole new game: trying to form pretty pictures in the tapemap :P 13:29:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:35:18 Urgh. crsc.nist.gov is slow as molasses. And it isn't IPv6 messing things up (I checked the DNS records, it only has A, NSEC and RRSIG records, no AAAA so no IPv6 connection attempts). 13:50:30 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:53:06 i want a catbus where you can arbitrarily specify the flow of input and output 13:53:46 but every program talking to every program is probably good enough 13:57:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:57:22 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:58:20 -!- cheater- has joined. 14:08:42 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:12:33 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:17:57 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:18:09 quintopia: Here's a good name for the latter utility, sure to gain popular approval: "incest pipe". 14:23:15 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:30:01 hmm, I'm still working on defend9.75 14:30:16 I got it to beat interior_crocodile_alligator (closely) last night, which is something I didn't even realise was possible 14:33:25 I'm testing it against the current hill now 14:33:46 it's kind-of slow, as the current version takes over 30 thousand cycles to beat some programs 14:37:17 ais523: Creeping up to tying by cycle limit :P 14:37:25 ais523, those bfjsout animations for the strategy page demos. Which is the program they compete against? 14:37:35 I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere on the page 14:37:48 Vorpal: it's "simple", it's not a very good program 14:37:56 it's designed to be beaten in as many different ways as is possible 14:37:59 I think the golf hill should be 320 characters, 10K cycles >: ) 14:38:04 in order to demonstrate opposing strategies 14:38:22 ais523, hm. it does manage to beat shudders iirc 14:38:23 Gregor: note that the extraordinary long length was a result of trying to make it fit into egobot 14:38:28 it uses a tape cell as a counter rather than () 14:38:37 Vorpal: not always, it depends on tape length 14:38:40 320 chars is plenty, allegro is less than half of that 14:38:44 ais523: 'twas an independent thought. 14:38:44 ais523, anyway, maybe it should be mentioned somewhere on that page. If it really is missing 14:38:53 Unless you meant expanded 14:38:56 ais523, is the tape length random or given in the link? 14:39:03 Vorpal: the page is a list of notable programs 14:39:12 and the tape length is given in the link; it defaults to 25 on sieve polarity 14:39:32 sometimes we change it to make sure simple loses 14:40:12 320 chars is plenty, allegro is less than half of that <-- You obviously don't mean that the library allegro is less than that, so which allegro do you mean? 14:40:21 the most hilarious defend9.75 result at the moment is the timeout tie against space elevator at one polarity 14:40:29 What do you think I mean in the context of bfjoust 14:40:40 ais523, is "sieve polarity" ++ or +- ? 14:40:44 I assumed it was a result of being too slow; looking into it, what happens is that they both end up trying to clear the same nonzero cells in the same direction at different speeds 14:40:48 in a way that it never hits 0 14:40:50 and it's ++ 14:41:59 ais523, I'm curious as to why you call ++ "sieve polarity"... And I also wonder what you would name +- 14:42:11 they're elliott's names 14:42:15 and he names +- "kettle" 14:42:43 ais523, any idea as to why he selected those? 14:42:55 no 14:44:00 Looks like http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/ejstape.png since I just plonked the canvas in wherever it happened to go. <-- the "imagey" bit in that screenshot looks like some sort of procedurally generated pixel art from a demo from the 8-bit era. 14:44:36 Vorpal: Did you see the http://zem.fi/~fis/tapestats_all.png version? 14:44:46 no. *checks* 14:44:52 -!- iconmaster has joined. 14:45:15 fizzie, 1) you should make an animation out of these frames. 2) pretty, what does it mean? 14:45:46 I guess you would need frames in between though to make it smoother 14:46:00 There's an explanation somewhere in the logs, but basically it's tape locations colorized by the amount of time the tape pointer has spent there. 14:46:17 how fizzie to think of such a thing. 14:46:18 Blue for right program, red for left; and one side of the image for normal polarity, the other for reversed. 14:46:52 There's a larger picture somewhere. 14:46:53 fizzie, it is interesting how often they are fairly symmetric still. 14:47:01 http://zem.fi/~fis/tapestats2.png 14:47:05 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:47:06 That one has labels and all. 14:47:10 Vorpal: you'd expect that, if it ever got very asymmetric likely one program would win soon after 14:47:13 except in rush vs. defence 14:47:33 ais523, I meant around the y axis 14:48:03 ais523, as in, they are fairly symmetric when polarity is reversed 14:48:04 Oh, and the tapes are oriented so that the centermost pixel is always the opponent's flag. 14:48:36 Vorpal: most programs aren't particularly polarity-sensitive 14:48:42 hm okay 14:48:59 the days where polarity reversal made a huge difference are mostly long gone 14:49:04 fizzie, also you mirrored the image between the polarities right? Or why else is it a diamond shape 14:49:05 although it happens sometimes, especially with the program I'm working on atm 14:49:14 which is much more reliable on one polarity than the other 14:50:01 Yes, it's flipped for the other side, to make the center line always the flag. 14:50:17 ais523, hm you can use unpredictable zeroing patterns to counter stuff like vibrators and shudders right? 14:50:35 to some extent 14:50:38 ais523, I wonder how well an unpredictable shudder pattern would do. 14:50:43 and very badly 14:50:50 ais523, how comes? 14:51:14 if the opponent is immune to being tricked off the tape, like most are nowadays (apart from turtles), it'd simply increase the chance you'd lose by chance 14:51:26 you can compare good shudder and good antishudder patterns 14:51:31 fizzie, right. And why is the grey area a triangle? 14:51:33 the best shudder patterns are along the lines of --+ 14:51:46 antishudder, something like -----++++++. works quite nicely 14:53:53 Different Y values correspond to different tape lengths; I've just arbitrarily arranged them from 10 to 30 and then from 30 to 10 (for the other program) in that order. 14:54:14 fizzie, ah I see 14:54:37 fizzie, so it was just pure chance it made a nice-looking diamond shape? 14:54:38 :P 14:55:16 Yes; it used in fact to be a hourglass shape, see http://zem.fi/~fis/tapestats.png 14:55:41 also nice looking 14:55:47 fizzie, but it was never a saw tooth one? 14:56:10 Not in anything I copied to the web. 14:56:15 fizzie, also some of those tape lengths near the middle look too short. And the top ones are cut off? 14:56:27 Hm, in which picture? 14:56:34 http://zem.fi/~fis/tapestats2.png for example 14:56:45 fizzie, the outermost lengths seem to be 2? 14:56:49 Huh? 14:56:50 rather than 9 14:56:59 fizzie, wait, isn't it one block per cell? 14:57:00 The bottommost length is 10 for both. 14:57:12 fizzie, oh I read it the wrong way around XD 14:57:12 And the topmost is 30 for both. 14:57:17 as in, rotated 90 degrees 14:58:34 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 14:58:38 fizzie, anyway, you should do some sort of similarity graph thingy based on this "loitering time" and other parameters :P 14:59:10 fizzie, in fact it might even work out well enough that it could be used to classify them like ais523 suggested some time ago 14:59:16 I already have that clustering thing. 14:59:21 Based on the scores. 14:59:23 yep, I like fizzie's clustering 14:59:29 fizzie, how did it work out? also link 14:59:34 http://zem.fi/~fis/clust15.png 14:59:41 fizzie: could you explain the tapemap? 15:00:00 fizzie, pretty graph but what is that one 15:00:06 as in, how do I read it 15:00:11 the colours and so on 15:00:45 ais523, "ais523_definder2"? 15:00:48 what is a definder? 15:01:09 definder's my program that generates flexible defence algorithms 15:01:16 ah I see 15:01:21 Vorpal: Well, it's a dendrogram; you read it the "usual" way. The vertical bars give a distance between the two things they connect; and it just arbitrarily assigns a single color for all those blocks where the distance is below 0.7*max. 15:01:38 and definder2 was what happened when I combined such an algorithm with the concept of defend13 15:01:42 fizzie, I'm not familiar with dendrograms, however I will google for it 15:01:57 fizzie, just what is the x axis scale though? 15:02:17 distance. sort of. 15:03:42 Vorpal: Yes, it's a rather arbitrary distance measure. Basically, for two programs A and B, it's the manhattan distance between the vectors you get if you take all (N-2)*(21*2) scores they have in common against other programs, as (-1, 0, 1)-valued vectors. 15:04:04 -!- sftp has joined. 15:04:20 And for two clusters, the distance is the average distance between all pairwise distances. 15:04:25 fizzie, I guess PCA wouldn't be very helpful here? 15:05:32 if you're trying to work out strategies in clustering, treating win/loss/draw as all different might work better 15:05:44 as several types of programs are basically incapable of drawing 15:06:00 fizzie, another thing you could do once you clustered the program is try to show which authors are similar. And possibly also how wide "spread" they have between their programs. For example impomatic's program seem to be a group on their own there. 15:06:32 Vorpal: It (or some other dimensionality reduction algorithms) might provide interesting-looking 2d projections; I did consider it, didn't plot anything yet. 15:06:46 fizzie: fucking tape maps: how do they work? 15:06:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:07:38 quintopia: Oh, right. Well, it does ltapestats[lp]++; rtapestats[rp]++ (where lp and rp are the left/right tape pointers) on every cycle, then just scales those so that 1 = max and plots all 21*2*2 vectors. 15:08:05 !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/VTYQ 15:08:07 fizzie, link to those diagrams? 15:08:14 that's unlikely to go right to the top of the leaderboard, but it should go higher 15:08:34 So if you have a program that sits on the opponent's flag all the time, it'll have a direct vertical line in the middle; while a [-]-suicider will have a /\ sort of shape since it'll be on the "outermost" spot all the time. 15:08:42 Vorpal: Which diagrams? 15:08:49 fizzie, the ones quintopia mentioned 15:08:54 or are those the diamonds? 15:09:41 fizzie: the center is opponent flag and the outside edge is home flag? 15:09:47 quintopia: Yes. 15:09:48 Vorpal: Yes. 15:10:24 fizzie: can you make an average decoy size as function of distance from home flag map? 15:12:23 ais523, anyway I suspect that adding "loitering time" to the classification stuff might give interesting results. Hard to tell though. 15:15:00 quintopia: I'm not quite sure how to detect when a program sets a decoy. Unless you just want something simple, like average over all tape values (for one location) that the programs leave there when moving away from it. 15:15:40 fizzie: exactly. in absolute (distance from zero) size 15:16:52 I'll try to remember to plot one later today when I get home. 15:17:05 quintopia, how would you show when a program builds a small decoy then goes back and extends it a bit later 15:18:22 Vorpal: perhaps just use the maximum size the cell reaches 15:20:34 I think I know how to fix defend9.75 to beat the bondage girls, too 15:20:37 or at least some of them 15:21:40 but it'll double it in length 15:21:49 :D 15:21:58 go for it. eoubling isn't bad 15:22:11 Vorpal: If I directly add "full tape maps against all shared opponents" as features, I'll get 67200-dimensional feature vectors; that might be overdoing it a bit. But I could try out (either for clustering or for separate plotting) the program's own tape-map averaged over all opponents; that might look interesting too. 15:22:19 ais523, strange that such a thing could double it in length 15:22:49 Vorpal: very large offset clears currently cause misdetections 15:23:04 but I have another tripwire that I can use to detect those and switch to a different tape length 15:23:14 ais523, by defend9.75 or by Gregor's programs? 15:23:18 There seems to be some across-columns correlation for the red halves of http://zem.fi/~fis/tapestats_all.png -- and across-rows for blue -- which would make sense, since the red/blue program is always the same in each column/row. 15:23:34 Vorpal: defend9.75 currently picks the wrong strategy against things using unusually large offset clears 15:23:40 right 15:24:09 Or maybe it's the other way around. Hard to tell from the images, really. 15:24:28 fizzie, hm you could do some sort of graph to show much much it varies for different programs there 15:25:04 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:25:04 fizzie, and the blue is definitely horizonal in similary for many 15:25:24 Based on that one row where the red program has just thin / \ stripes (indicating it never moved from its own flag) I'd say one row == same red program. 15:25:40 There is also a corresponding blue \/ column. 15:25:53 (I probably had a suicider on my hill there.) 15:27:08 fizzie, red looks like it is vertical in many other places though. Such as the one that is almost always a line in the middle with little outside 15:27:27 column 9 (one-index) 15:27:38 heh, defence programs are pretty recognisable 15:27:59 full-tape clears have a pretty distinctive view 15:28:02 yep 15:28:11 Yes, there is correlation both ways; I guess some opponents manage to "force" a similar sort of behaviour. 15:28:38 fizzie, ah could be. Could you plot that tendency to force a behaviour somehow? Would that even be feasible. 15:28:55 ais523: You can also read rule of 9 from the plots. 15:29:02 ais523: Such as furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls? 15:29:06 It has an offset clear of size 30 15:29:06 yeah. def row=red and col=blue 15:29:22 Gregor: yep, 30 * 3 > 85, so it's just enough to defeat me 15:29:23 Gregor, what is the strategy of that one? 15:29:25 but I can detect that separately 15:29:38 really, I should call this program defend9.85, it's so focused on the number 85 15:29:45 Vorpal: It's two new strategies plus a hybrid, I'll doc it on the wiki this weekend and/or tonight. 15:29:51 Gregor, ah 15:29:57 ais523_defend9_75.bfjoust vs elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator.bfjoust: >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<< ais523_defend9_75.bfjoust wins 15:30:07 that's the outcome I still can't really believe, even though I know how I did it 15:30:14 Vorpal: The two new strategies are deep poke (appropriate for the name) and breadcrumbs. 15:30:18 beating alligators should be nearly impossible for defend9.75 15:30:31 Gregor, mhm 15:30:33 Gregor: hmm, is it a poke that skips small values? 15:30:39 ais523: Yup. 15:30:43 I was wondering about that 15:30:44 ais523, what does alligator do? 15:30:49 alligators* 15:30:57 changes strategy halfway through its clear 15:31:08 luckily, doing that means that it takes a huge amount of time to move off a tape cell 15:31:10 ah 15:31:15 that confuses most previous defence programs 15:31:20 but it turns out it's detectable 15:32:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:32:23 oh, I also added a brainfuck-joust-mode to esolangs.el 15:32:29 ais523, would it be a decent tactic to assume the length of the tape is, say, 11 or longer and get an advantage on the longer tapes at the expense of failing at a handful or short ones? 15:32:43 no; it used to be, but that works badly against large decoys 15:32:46 or does the scoring somehow bias against such behaviour? 15:32:56 ais523, hm? 15:33:00 because the amount you lose is equal to the amount you gain 15:33:12 ais523, how do you mean 15:33:38 ais523, what i meant was doing (>)*11 instead of (>)*9 or such 15:33:48 Score for ais523_defend9_75: 40.5 15:33:51 while you would lose on the short tapes there are many more long tapes 15:33:52 the advantage you gain on the longer tapes if, say, you abandon length 10, only works on a number of tape elements equal to the nubmber you skip 15:33:55 hmm, only 40.5? 15:34:07 ais523, hm 15:34:07 It went down from the previous 15:34:27 21 | + + + + + - 0 + - + + + + + - + + + + + - + + - - + - + + + + - - - - + + + + + + + + - + - | 42.8 | 11.4 | 21 | ais523_defend9_75.bfjoust 15:34:30 21 | + + + + + - - + - + + + - + + + + + + + - + + - - + + - + + + - - - - + + + + + + + + - + - | 40.5 | 10.5 | 21 | ais523_defend9_75.bfjoust 15:34:44 Sweet 15:34:50 ais523, why did it use to be a good tactic though? 15:35:01 because decoys were small and the length of trails mattered 15:35:05 nowadays, though, people don't use trails 15:35:06 ah 15:35:29 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:35:38 hmm, I can't do this fix after all, it'll kill egojoust 15:35:39 ais523, but for a fast rush style program that would give less time for the opponent to set up a large decoy though 15:36:07 1 cycle? 15:36:18 it's only going to help on 1 tape length 15:36:27 hm true 15:38:09 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:49:00 !bfjoust huzzah ((-)*256(+)*256)*-1 15:49:28 I don't know why I keep trying this stupid crap :P 15:50:27 it'll do no better than any shudder... 15:50:44 it might draw more often maybe 15:52:01 -!- augur has joined. 15:53:38 Gregor_huzzah.bfjoust vs Gregor_return_of_ehird_defend8mwahahaha.bfjoust: 15:53:38 <><><><><><><><><><>< <><><><><><><><><><>< <><><><><><><><><><>< <><><><><><><><><><>< 15:53:38 Gregor_huzzah.bfjoust wins 15:53:39 Hyuk 15:53:56 lol 15:54:58 Score for Gregor_huzzah: 11.1 15:55:12 :D 15:55:38 not as good as good_vibrations was 15:55:47 *shock* 15:56:12 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:56:29 Still, my strapon pegging girls are so good at the deep poke. 15:56:35 >_> 15:56:41 DEEP poke. 15:56:46 Oh sorry, just thinking about something else. 15:57:22 Anyway, I foresee an arms race exactly like the current offset-vs-decoy arms race, but one level indirected into deep poke. 15:59:06 i wouldn't be surprised. people building bigger decoys during initial rush, slowing themselves down a bit to avoid the deep poke, while poking deeper themselves 15:59:06 -!- Zuu has changed nick to Xyz. 15:59:17 defend9.75 has an anti-deep-poke already 15:59:22 but it may not be fast enough 15:59:43 it's actually there for the purpose of beating saccharin_philip, for a mostly unrelated reason 15:59:54 i still think the primary benefit of a poke is to get a little bit more room on longer tapes, and would rather see more strategy develop in the midgame 16:00:00 -!- Xyz has changed nick to Zuu. 16:00:09 saccharin_philip isn't even on the board any more :P 16:00:15 I don't think pokes are all that powerful 16:00:18 Gregor: I know :( 16:00:45 ais523: It was brilliant back when nobody was doing it, but poke-v-poke is ineffectual :P 16:01:01 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:01:54 it doesn't help at all against reverse-decoy-setup defence 16:01:59 in fact, it actually hinders 16:05:20 !bfjoust decoys_are_dead_just_rush_instead (>+>-)*4(>[[-]]+>[[-]]-)*11 16:05:46 That looks almost exactly like an old version of monorail 16:05:47 (Prediction: faillol) 16:05:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:07:04 Score for Gregor_decoys_are_dead_just_rush_instead: 13.1 16:07:38 Yesssssssssssssssssssssssss 16:13:21 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys (>)*8(>[>>>(>[[-]])*17])*21 16:13:37 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 7.5 16:13:39 That might be so fast that the name is true but the behavior is wrong :P 16:13:59 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys (.)*256(>)*8(>[>>>(>[[-]])*17])*21 16:14:32 Ohwait, starting this with (>)*8 makes no sense too :P 16:14:46 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 8.1 16:14:53 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys (.)*256(>)*4(>[>>>(>[[-]])*17])*21(>[[-]])*4 16:15:15 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 11.0 16:15:26 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys (.)*256(>)*4(>[>>>(>[(+)*30[-]])*17])*21(>[(+)*30[-]])*4 16:15:38 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 15.2 16:16:07 * oerjan has this inkling that the () parentheses perhaps should be optional around single characters... 16:16:17 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys (>(+)*32>(-)*32)*4(>[>>>(>[(+)*30[-]])*17])*21(>[(+)*30[-]])*4 16:16:21 like with regexps 16:16:32 oerjan: Eh, it makes parsing it a modicum easier *shrugs* 16:16:41 yeah i realize that 16:16:46 oerjan: Also it lets * be a comment in any place other than after ) 16:16:53 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 28.3 16:16:57 Well well well 16:18:01 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys (>(+)*64>(-)*64)*2(>[>>>(>[(+)*30[-]])*17])*17(>[(+)*30[-]])*4 16:18:14 Gregor: i am just noticing that () around single chars seems rather common 16:18:16 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 28.1 16:19:25 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys (>)*4(+)*64<(-)*64<(+)*64<(-)*64>>> (>[>>>(>[(+)*30[-]])*17])*17(>[(+)*30[-]])*4 16:21:02 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 33.1 16:21:05 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys (>->+)*2(+)*64<(-)*64<(+)*64<(-)*64>>> (>[>>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*17])*17(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:21:17 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 32.2 16:21:23 Worse :P 16:21:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:22:47 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*64<(-)*63>>> (>[>>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*17])*17(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:23:02 Whoops, that's not quite what I wanted... 16:23:22 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 34.4 16:23:28 Heh 16:23:38 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*85<(-)*85>>> (>[>>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*17])*17(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:23:57 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 28.5 16:24:04 Yowza 16:24:09 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[>>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*17])*17(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:24:17 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 39.8 16:24:22 actually i don't think it needs to be much harder to parse. all you need is a pointer to the previous command (you may want to null that when passing comments) when hitting a *, you don't need to insert anything before the already parsed command 16:24:52 in fact the logic could be entirely in the standalone * parsing 16:25:14 (assuming you can peek at the previous char) 16:25:53 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[>>>(>[(+)*32[-].[[.-].[.++-------[...-]]]])*17])*17(>[(+)*32[-].[[.-].[.++-------[...-]]]])*4 16:26:05 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 39.3 16:26:14 Worse again >_> 16:28:21 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[>>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*17])*21(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:29:39 except for *0, which simply resets the end of the compiled program to the previous command instead (works with literal () too) 16:30:02 *start of the previous 16:30:11 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 44.1 16:30:17 lololololol 16:30:37 oerjan: For me it's just that I'd have to insert some artificial things into the parsed command stream, which is doable but obnoxious :P 16:30:49 ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys is now #7 X-D 16:30:52 _what_ artificial things? 16:31:19 oerjan: ( and ). All my looping logic is in the handling of BFJ.PSTART and BFJ.PEND. 16:32:17 ok maybe your design isn't compatible with this 16:32:50 if you are not using actual pointers 16:33:10 if you are using pointers, ( can be a nop and so needs no representation 16:36:12 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ ([+{([-{ >>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*21 }])%8}])%4 ])*21(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:36:15 (i am thinking of imperatively parsing bfjoust more as a kind of bytecode compiling) 16:36:37 I'm talking about egojsout :P 16:38:19 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 41.2 16:38:26 Whoopsipoo :P 16:38:33 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ >>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*21 ])*21(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:38:45 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 44.1 16:38:48 Looks like doing a deep-poke-alike didn't do so well there. 16:39:40 oh well if you use javascript's functional features (note i don't really know javascript), then this should be even easier 16:39:47 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ [+([-{ >>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*21 }])%2] ])*21(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:39:55 no need to lay down the result in an array as you go 16:40:11 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 41.1 16:40:14 Bleh 16:40:17 * oerjan feels like he is trolling right now :D 16:40:17 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ >>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*21 ])*21(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:43:39 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:44:49 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:45:11 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 44.1 16:45:11 oerjan: I'm the one writing ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys :P 16:45:11 Now that is trolling. 16:45:12 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ >>>(>[(+)*33[-]])*21 ])*21(>[(+)*33[-]])*4 16:45:13 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 43.1 16:46:29 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ >>>(>[(+)*9[-]])*21 ])*21(>[(+)*9[-]])*4 16:46:29 (Much worse) 16:46:40 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 30.1 16:46:48 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ >>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*21 ])*21(>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:46:49 you aren't actually checking for four decoys you know 16:46:56 quintopia: Yes I am. 16:47:02 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 44.1 16:47:09 Errr, not "checking", no. 16:47:13 Just skipping them under the assumption that they're there. 16:47:20 you are checking that the first decoy you see is at least 4 out from the flag 16:47:28 Fair enough. 16:47:46 and that it is within 4 of the 10th cell 16:47:50 Gregor: Tweaking constants, I see! 16:48:05 Deewiant: This isn't a serious contender, it's just a troll :P 16:48:08 try making the last 4 in the program bigger 16:48:19 say, 25 16:48:35 quintopia: ... 4 + 21 + 4 = 29 16:48:49 so? 16:48:56 try it 16:49:02 quintopia: 4 + 21 + 4 > 29, so that's just running off the tape for no reason. 16:49:10 Erm 16:49:14 4 + 21 + 25 > 29 :P 16:49:22 ... 16:49:59 your program quits if it doesn't find a nonzero value on cells 9-12 16:50:16 you may do better by looking forward a bit 16:50:23 quintopia: No, it doesn't, it looks at cells 9-29 X_X 16:50:42 Gregor: You have (>[stuff])*4 16:50:53 oh maybe i'm misreading 16:51:01 mah bad 16:51:07 Deewiant: Yes, for if I got to a cell so far ahead, that skipping decoys guarantees me to jump off the tape. 16:51:30 ^^^ totes English you guys 16:51:31 Oh, right 16:51:37 i mentally matched parens wrong 16:51:39 Ditto 16:51:52 It looks like the *4 wraps the whole thing 16:52:27 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ >>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*21 ])*21 YOU GUYS LOOKA THE SPACE HERE LOL (>[(+)*32[-]])*4 16:52:45 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys: 44.1 16:52:54 I SEE IT 16:53:06 why didn't you put it there to begin with? 16:53:23 geez man, does readability mean nothing to you? 17:02:32 It's amazing that you thought it got to 7th place with a bug that glaring :P 17:03:38 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_six_decoys >->(+)*37<(-)*37>>> (>[ >>>>>(>[(+)*32[-]])*21 ])*19 YOU GUYS LOOKA THE SPACE HERE LOL (>[(+)*32[-]])*6 17:03:54 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_six_decoys: 28.6 17:04:12 lol 17:04:18 APNIC down 0.06 (1x/15+1x/16 to Hong Kong, 1x/15 to China, 1x/15+1x/18+2x/22 to Singapore, 1x/18+1x/19+2x/22 to Japan, 8x/16+1x/19+1x/24 to Australia). On IPv6 front: 2x/32 to Australia, 1x/32 to Indonesia. 17:04:39 !bfjoust ill_bet_you_have_six_decoys <3 17:04:50 Score for Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_six_decoys: 0.0 17:07:47 -!- sftp has joined. 17:19:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:20:36 APNIC totals for month (IPv4(blocks)/IPv6): Allocated this month : 11 252 480(0.67)/3 342 349. Extrap. to 28 days: 17 503 857(1.04)/5 199 209. To 31 days: 19 379 271(1.16)/5 756 267. Last month: 23 735 040(1.41)/2 818 065. 17:27:43 -!- iamcal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:30:19 This month is already 16th highest in IPv4 allocation counts (out of present allocations). At that extrapolated amount, this month would rank the 4th. Out of top 20, 9 are from last year or this year. 17:32:25 it'll do no better than any shudder... <-- why do you hate shudders so much? 17:33:25 There's a scene in the episode of Futurama that's a parody of Titanic where Kif goes to Brannigan and the conversation goes something like this: "We have a problem." "Come back when it's a catastrophe." *ship crashes* 17:33:43 That conversation is a parallel to ipv4->ipv6 migration :P 17:39:03 Allocation rate this month: 13.61bpa. Last month was 16.67bpa. 10bpa would deplete present pool in about 5 months, 12bpa would do it in about 4.2 months, 15bpa in about 3.4 months. 17:40:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:40:08 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 17:40:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:42:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:42:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:43:14 Ilari: Dang. 17:48:13 IETF&co realized "We have a problem" in the 90s. IPv6 IANA pool was created 1st July 1999. After that, problem mitigation has been pretty lackluster. 17:50:34 Reminds me of Metric Act of 1866. In the following 145 years, not much progress (besides some new industries). 17:51:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:53:10 Well, when IPv4 DFZ routing table size starts to give serious headaches and ISP support phones are ringing off the hook with support requests because of NAT444, perhaps then IPv6 deployment will really take off... 17:53:37 Ilari: I thought the Metric Act just /allowed/ metric where otherwise disallowed, it didn't really /encourage/ it. 17:55:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:55:29 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:55:58 Yup. But back then metric adoption was "hotter" topic. But then it "died". 17:57:49 Metric adoption is actually happening in the US, though. 17:58:06 Almost entirely because industry doesn't want to retool stuff for domestic use. 17:58:42 it's mostly happened in the UK already 17:59:00 although you still get things like beer sold in pints 17:59:11 For instance, US cars are now down entirely in metric, with the only non-metric bits being the speedometer... 17:59:13 (the bar has to say what the size of a pint is in metric, but that's normally in tiny small print somewhere) 17:59:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:59:24 UK speedometers are marked in both mph and kph 17:59:29 although the speed limit is measured in mph 17:59:35 Same in the US. 17:59:41 MPH as the primary marking. 17:59:53 here it seems more or less random which is the primary 18:00:20 I'm sad that the US road standards recently stopped allowing metric. 18:00:32 Not that it matters too much; there was like one or two roads with metric signage. 18:00:44 Oh, and electric units are already metric. Imperial electric units existed but are apparently totally forgotten. 18:01:09 ... There were imperial electric units? 18:01:17 I'm scared. 18:01:41 not only that, but there are three separate sets of metric electric units 18:01:42 Probably can't beat the elegance of, say, the kg m^2 c^-1 s^2. 18:01:49 although people are standardised on SI nowadays 18:02:02 ais523: Well, yes, there are many different forms of metric systems. 18:02:09 But who gives a crap about non-SI? 18:02:41 s/c^-1/C^-1/ 18:03:15 I haven't been able to locate any more information about imperial electric units than that those existed. 18:03:56 Probably just died out really quick, courtesy of physics being so very much simpler in metric systems. 18:05:00 -!- cal153 has joined. 18:05:41 But if rest of imperial system is of any indication, those units were a real Charlie Foxtrot. 18:06:05 Yeah... 18:06:31 The only sane way to do complex calculation on imperial units is, of course, to convert to and from metric first. As I'm sure you well know. 18:06:45 Metric system is internally consistent. Imperial system isn't. 18:10:09 -!- elliott has joined. 18:14:15 There's also fun page containing the meter/inch ratio. The correct value is of course 5000/127 = 39.[370078740157480314960629921259842519685039]. It had numerious diffrent ways to round that number plus various strange values. 18:15:05 (collected from various sources). 18:16:52 FAIL: firefoxlive.org, promotional site for Firefox streaming live video of firefoxes, requires Flash to play. 18:18:00 Fail. 18:18:58 I'm considering switching to Firefox 4 when it comes out 18:20:39 pikhq: Although *to be fair*, there's no Standard(TM) way to do live streaming right now. 18:22:00 21:32:02 oerjan: what pace do you recommend i archive-binge iwc btw? i've been meaning to. <-- divide in 7. Spread it out over a single week 18:22:01 elliott: Clearly