←2011-03-06 2011-03-07 2011-03-08→ ↑2011 ↑all
00:00:10 <zzo38> Can you use something based on the current time of day?
00:00:27 <Sgeo> Hmm, didn't think of that
00:03:24 <zzo38> Maybe you can try now see what happen?
00:05:33 <Sgeo> Meh
00:05:38 <Sgeo> Not too interested, tbh
00:07:54 <zzo38> I made a wiki, it has no colors but you could do things based on the time of day. However, if we want more random numbers I should implement that in addition because the time of day is only in minutes
00:10:33 <zzo38> I play a card game called Yomi, do they have a userbox for that, maybe?
00:19:55 <Patashu> it's kind of tempting to try and hack at the bfjoust hill again
00:20:08 <Patashu> but I think I'd need to write my thesis on it to have any chance at this current state of development
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00:38:20 <Ilari> Wow: "When just one person is using certain P2P networks at home, I have seen 30 or more TCP SYNs _per second_ going out - over a 2Mbit ADSL."
00:39:38 <oerjan> GO, AND SYN NO MORE
00:44:32 <Ilari> Also, CGNs tend to have low state timeouts (as low as 1 minute has been spotted).
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01:21:55 <elliott> <Patashu> it's kind of tempting to try and hack at the bfjoust hill again
01:21:55 <elliott> <Patashu> but I think I'd need to write my thesis on it to have any chance at this current state of development
01:22:06 <elliott> he'd be surprised, what with Gregor's quick rise from cheap tricks :D
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02:23:31 <zzo38> Have I missed anything important in making a wiki system?
02:23:51 <elliott> do you have the chickens?
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02:31:38 <zzo38> What chickens?
02:34:47 <zzo38> Are you chicken?
02:35:19 <oerjan> nah he's just an egghead
02:37:23 <oerjan> things are a bit fishy in freefall today
02:41:24 <zzo38> My userpage in Wikipedia is fixed now, isn't it?
02:43:29 <zzo38> Or is it broken more now?
02:44:58 <oerjan> at least the brokenness is self-referential
02:46:04 <zzo38> Actually I think I fixed it more and I also broke it more, too.
02:48:54 <zzo38> All the new things I added to the bottom (except for a HTML comment near the top)
02:50:05 <zzo38> Did you read it?
02:51:36 <zzo38> Some of them I (or others can) might change to template pages so that it can be transcluded instead
02:52:21 <zzo38> Wikipedia has no article about "Yomi (card game)"!
03:07:48 <zzo38> What kind of cleric domain would you make for this spell? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Good_Insane_Spell.s
03:08:03 * pikhq_ returneth
03:08:22 <zzo38> (I think domain clerics ought to cast it sometimes?)
03:09:11 <zzo38> pikhq_: Do you think domain clerics ought to cast it sometimes?
03:15:39 <pikhq_> A curious spell.
03:17:10 <variable> gnight all
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03:18:15 <zzo38> Sorry, it was connection error.
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03:45:06 <Ilari> Hah. Two of temperature sensors report alarms on this computer. Except those aren't "temperature too high", it is "temperature too low".
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03:59:54 <zzo38> Ilari: What should be the minimum temperature, then?
04:00:37 <Ilari> Those minimum temps seem way too high.
04:01:06 <zzo38> Can you try to figure out the reason for that, and if it is not good reason, adjust the minimum setting to a lower number?
04:04:53 <zzo38> Do you agree that UNIX is better than SpectateSwamp Desktop Search?
04:09:38 <elliott> 08:26:10 <Sgeo> Today I Learned: ais523 is a KDE person.
04:09:38 <elliott> lolno
04:10:01 <Sgeo> elliott, then explain the use of Konversation and Akregator
04:10:53 <Sgeo> zzo38, a lump on a log is better than SpectateSwamp Desktop Search [slight exaggeration]
04:10:55 <elliott> 08:50:49 <ais523> indeed, I pinged him then and didn't get a response (I don't actually /know/ that fizzie is male, but I'm guessing)
04:10:55 <elliott> 08:51:46 <Gregor> To quote a high-school English teacher "English is a male language, if you don't know somebody's sex then you should use 'he', deal with it."
04:10:55 <elliott> Untrue.
04:11:10 <elliott> I would totally argue this, except me and variable just argued with and subsequently convinced pikhq about this issue mere days ago, so I can't be arsed.
04:11:27 <Gregor> I was just quoting a teacher :P
04:11:54 <elliott> To quote Hitler, "We should kill all the Jews."
04:12:00 <elliott> "Especially Gregor Richards."
04:12:01 <zzo38> Sgeo: Better for what?
04:12:34 <elliott> 08:56:10 <Gregor> pikhq_: And yet, we have no gender-neutral living pronouns...
04:12:34 <elliott> they
04:12:43 <Gregor> Fair point
04:13:07 <Sgeo> zzo38, anything. And anyone. Except maybe SpectateSwamp. He might find use out of it.
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04:14:34 <zzo38> No, not anything. Bump on the log is probably no good if you want to share videos? (Unless you have a video camera, in which case you should use the video camera instead)
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04:15:26 <elliott> 20:10:01 <Sgeo> elliott, then explain the use of Konversation and Akregator
04:15:32 <elliott> it is impossible to install kde programs in gnome
04:16:56 <Sgeo> SSDS is no good if you want something usable by anyone outside the set of {SpectateSwamp, zzo38}
04:17:36 <zzo38> I do not find it a very good program either
04:18:09 <zzo38> I rarely work with videos anyways.
04:23:01 <pikhq_> elliott: GNOME excludes all.
04:23:13 <elliott> Every time you log in, GNOME removes all non-GNOME programs. Permanently.
04:23:16 <elliott> Including all associated data.
04:23:42 <Sgeo> What's so great about Konversation and Akregator though that makes them worth using on GNOME?
04:24:03 <Sgeo> I've kind of always had a prejucide for keeping GTK+ apps on GNOME and Qt on KDE
04:24:16 <Sgeo> Well, hmm, not that much
04:24:22 <Sgeo> GNOME apps on GNOME and KDE apps on KDE
04:30:09 <pikhq_> Well, KDE apps on GNOME works quite well these days.
04:34:49 * pikhq_ wonders how Ferrero has the balls to claim that Nutella is an exceptionally healthy food.
04:35:13 <pikhq_> It's ⅔ sugar!
04:35:29 <pikhq_> (corn syrup in the US)
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04:42:37 <elliott> pikhq_: It's delicious.
04:42:40 <elliott> That's quite relevant.
04:43:20 <copumpkin> lol
04:43:26 <copumpkin> healthy for your soul
04:43:28 <copumpkin> mmm
04:44:47 <pikhq_> elliott: True, true.
04:46:04 <copumpkin> http://www.viva64.com/en/b/0094/
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05:07:20 <Gregor> "Bieng diagnsoed with a seriuos illenss or giong throguh a divocre ofetn triggres derpession."
05:07:22 <Gregor> lolspam
05:07:27 <Gregor> Wouldn't want derpession.
05:07:35 <Gregor> (durpession?)
05:07:54 <pikhq_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2k9JwGpm1w Some days, I ♥ BBC.
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05:08:12 <elliott> you haven't seen look around you?
05:08:18 <elliott> :|
05:08:23 <elliott> only the best TV show on earth
05:08:34 <pikhq_> elliott: No, it doesn't air in the US.
05:08:41 <elliott> pikhq_: You have the Internet.
05:08:48 <pikhq_> elliott: Hence why I'm seeing it now.
05:08:56 <pikhq_> Erm, well, hence *how* I'm seeing it now.
05:08:57 <elliott> And it doesn't air in the UK either, there are two series and they each have like six episodes, like all British programs :P
05:09:08 <elliott> (And the second serious is wildly different.)
05:09:39 <pikhq_> elliott: Yes, but the point is, *quality TV basically doesn't happen in the US*.
05:09:50 <elliott> Kinda like your mom. ...what?
05:09:57 <pikhq_> Except when it does, in which case it gets freaking milked for all it's got.
05:10:12 <elliott> Wait until you get to the music episode.
05:10:27 <elliott> Hey now little mouse / I hope we understand one another / Hey now little mouse / Show me what to do.
05:10:30 <elliott> THE MEANING, IT IS SO DEEP.
05:11:08 <coppro> look around you is truly awesome
05:11:18 <coppro> and yeah, the US is lacking in quality TV
05:11:22 <coppro> except for satire
05:11:24 <coppro> which is fantastic
05:11:54 <elliott> 17:16:11 <Pikhq> %.b : %.bfm
05:11:54 <elliott> 17:16:19 <Pikhq> *Surely* pfuck.0.b matches that.
05:11:55 <elliott> 17:16:51 * GregorR never uses that syntax.
05:11:55 <elliott> 17:16:59 <GregorR> .bfm.b:
05:12:03 <elliott> Gregor came here from the 70s to let us all know that, 70s!
05:12:45 <pikhq_> coppro: Oh, it definitely has some quality. And this quality gets spread out into as many seasons as it takes for the quality to stop.
05:16:05 <Gregor> elliott: And you came here from 200(something) to tell us that ...
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05:58:20 <pikhq_> Man. ATI drivers are kinda weird with Flash video.
05:58:32 <pikhq_> Full-screen performance > normal performance.
05:58:44 <pikhq_> (judging from smoothness of video & lack of tearing)
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08:11:15 <cheater00> pikhq_: if you're in linux and using ff, try installing flash-aid
08:11:28 <cheater00> pikhq_: i've had the same problems as you because of a wrong version of flash being installed
08:13:24 <pikhq_> cheater00: It's just that I get video tearing from Flash not v-syncing *unless* it's full screen.
08:13:39 <pikhq_> Which doesn't really suggest any actual *problems*, except incompetence.
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08:38:53 <cheater00> pikhq_: yeah, i've had that too. give it a go.
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10:21:00 <fizzie> http://fuckyeahnouns.com/bfjoust
10:21:14 <fizzie> (I sure hope it'll return the same image for everyone.)
10:22:34 <Deewiant> It does
10:23:30 <fizzie> Deewiant: You might find http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/tmp.gif amusing too; the reference might be lost on non-.fi people, though.
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11:46:14 <ais523> !bfjoust suicide <
11:47:49 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_suicide: 0.0
11:48:27 <ais523> that's better
11:48:44 <ais523> (waterfall3 was losing to the program at the bottom of the hill and none of the programs above it, so I bumped it off to regain a flawless record)
11:49:14 <ais523> !bfjoust nop .
11:49:35 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_nop: 4.1
11:50:25 <ais523> hmm, it seems no-ops still have a vague chance on the hill
11:51:11 <ais523> also, wow, all the numbered defenders have fallen off the hill
11:53:58 <fizzie> !bfjoust trivial (>)*9(+[[-]].>)*21
11:54:04 <EgoBot> Score for fizzie_trivial: 15.4
11:54:05 <fizzie> Just in the interests of experimentation.
11:54:22 <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/JKFa
11:54:29 <ais523> that's with the whitespace bug fixed
11:54:31 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_defend9_75: 43.2
11:54:34 <ais523> or workarounded, anyway
11:54:46 <ais523> it should do rather better now that it's repeating 9 times rather than 1
11:55:02 <ais523> hmm, #8, not bad
11:55:05 <fizzie> Actually if you had whitespace, it was interpreted as *0.
11:55:21 <ais523> ouch
11:55:49 <ais523> good to see waterfall3 still beats it
11:55:51 <ais523> even with the bugfix
11:55:55 <fizzie> I did (...)*[garbage] as *0 since it was giving parse error for Gregor's "let's put some Perl inside (...)*0" thing.
11:56:28 <ais523> that was a very chaotic match, because they keep trying to full-tape-clear each other, which is always messy
11:56:33 <fizzie> I don't know if Gregor installamated the bugfixed gearlance; perhaps not.
11:56:52 <fizzie> !bfjoust trivial ((>)*9(+[[-]].>)*21)* 1
11:56:55 <EgoBot> Score for fizzie_trivial: 4.2
11:56:59 <fizzie> Apparently not.
11:57:52 <ais523> btw, triplock is targeted specifically against the sequence ]]]
11:58:11 <ais523> you'll see trivial's score drop if you change the [[-]] to [[[-]]], not that there's any reason to really do that directly
11:58:22 <ais523> it's because things like [-[++[+]]] are quite common that it's a good tactic
11:58:48 <ais523> (things like ]]...] also fall to it)
11:58:58 <ais523> (where you can interpret the ... as an ellipsis, or as waiting three cycles)
11:59:42 <fizzie> !bfjoust trivial (>)*9(+[[[-]]]>)*21
11:59:45 <EgoBot> Score for fizzie_trivial: 8.6
12:00:14 <ais523> let me try that against triplock3 in egojsout, to see if it actually finishes in a plausible length of time
12:07:07 <ais523> looks like it'll "only" be ten thousand cycles or so
12:07:30 <ais523> fizzie: I thought of a new statistic for you to graph, btw: for each program, the average length of time before it wins, and before it loses
12:07:50 <ais523> (before it draws would potentially be useful, but only if there were simultaneous-loss draws rather than timeout draws, and I'm not sure if there are any on the hill)
12:09:17 <fizzie> I'll try that out at home. I already have an average-duel-length graph, but it's sorted according to left/right program, not the win/loss result.
12:09:42 <ais523> if a program tends to win slowly but lose quickly, for instance, it's likely defence
12:17:36 <ais523> I also want to adapt juiced to attempt to determine the reason for a win or loss
12:17:47 <ais523> which obviously can't always be done automatically, but there are some cases where you can make a good guess
12:21:44 <fizzie> Since you're not above using cheap tactics, here's a mostly-constant evo4 tweak that I think beats waterfall, purely to screw up your +-row. (At least it did in egojsout unless I misran something.)
12:21:48 <fizzie> !bfjoust evo4 ((-)*8>)*9((-)*128.[.(-)*1]+.>)*21
12:21:59 <EgoBot> Score for fizzie_evo4: 15.1
12:22:01 <fizzie> Whoops, I forgot the underscore in the name.
12:22:29 <fizzie> At least it's at the bottom so you can displace it easily. But the table has a - in it now.
12:22:42 <ais523> wow, Epiphany is so much faster than Firefox at egojsout
12:22:51 <ais523> which is strange, because Chromium wasn't when I tested
12:23:43 <ais523> but then it crashes/freezes when I try to run the animation
12:24:06 <cheater00> i think they had a js engine update at some point late last year
12:24:42 <cheater00> ais523: can you link me up to bfjsout?
12:24:59 <ais523> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/
12:25:02 <ais523> it's actually called egojsout
12:25:08 <cheater00> thanks
12:25:31 <cheater00> ah right i messed the name up :)
12:26:41 <ais523> the plot thickens: Epiphany itself was working fine, just the egojsout tab itself was broken
12:27:35 <cheater00> hah
12:28:13 <cheater00> so ais523 how does bfjoust work exactly?
12:28:15 <ais523> could someone else try this run: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/?l=f9ca4256e24ba262ba77e3ff7c182288baff4dee&r=e334674b466455690582d51437a4400e7dab8f98
12:28:24 <ais523> cheater00: what do you mean by that?
12:28:33 <ais523> the language itself? the competition ecosystem?
12:28:45 <cheater00> the latter please
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12:29:18 <ais523> basically, there's a "hill" here in #esoteric, which contains the top 48 or so programs of the past
12:29:34 <ais523> whenever anyone submits an entry, it's run against all the programs on a hill, and gains points for beating them
12:29:34 <cheater00> mhm
12:29:45 <ais523> you get more points by winning by a wider margin, or against better enemies
12:29:57 <ais523> likewise, the better the enemy or the wider the margin, the more points you lose from losing
12:30:07 <cheater00> how is the match performed?
12:30:13 <ais523> if you end up with more points than the worst program previously on the hill, you end up on the hill yourself
12:30:26 <ais523> and 42 games are run, at each of the 21 tapelengths and each of the 2 polarities
12:30:47 <ais523> (switched/reversed/"kettle" polarity is where one of the programs has all its + and - swapped to avoid trivial dependencies on which way round the program was written)
12:31:34 <cheater00> what is the goal of a match?
12:31:40 <cheater00> as in, how do you know which program wins?
12:31:59 <ais523> oh, a program loses if it goes off either end of the tape, or the cell it started on becomes 0 for two cycles in a row
12:32:10 <ais523> you're the second person to ask that recently, which implies to me that it should be clearer on the wiki page
12:32:26 <cheater00> i was unable to find the wiki page by googling
12:32:39 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust
12:32:58 <ais523> what /did/ you find by googling, if not that?
12:34:49 <ais523> also, isn't looking on Esolang typical for finding definitions of esoprogramming langauges?
12:34:52 <ais523> *languages?
12:35:54 <fizzie> Google for me when searching for "bfjoust" is all "Showing results for joust. Search instead for bfjoust."
12:36:19 <fizzie> But after searching-instead like it suggests, the wiki-page is first.
12:38:11 <ais523> aha, "bfjoust" or "BF joust" gives Esolang
12:38:24 <ais523> but hits for "brainfuck joust" are retroprogramming (impomatic's blog) and Agora
12:38:51 * ais523 creates redirect at [[Brainfuck Joust]]
12:43:34 <cheater00> ah that's why
12:43:45 * cheater00 is at a lowered mental capacity today
12:43:56 <cheater00> yup, mensa was definitely wrong about me :D
12:45:31 <ais523> I don't see how expanding an abbreviation and not realising that would confuse Google is a sign of stupidity
12:45:32 <ais523> given that normally it makes Google less confused
12:46:41 <Gregor> Latest xkcd: Worst ever?
12:47:45 <cheater00> ais523: well according to elliottt everything i do is a sign of stupidity :)
12:47:55 <ais523> Gregor: I think it's just a complaint in comic form
12:48:19 <ais523> (a reference to the fact that many sites, when visiting any of the pages on their main site on a mobile, redirect to the homepage of the mobile site, not the corresponding page on the mobile site)
12:48:21 <Gregor> With no comedic value whatsoever.
12:48:42 <cheater00> haha that's cool, they sneaked zalgo into google search results
12:53:34 <variable> ais523: *cough* reddit *cough*
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13:16:27 <ais523> hmm, I just went and clarified http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust, and removed most of the gratuitous italics
13:16:29 <ais523> is it better now?
13:25:27 <oerjan> • pikhq_ wonders how Ferrero has the balls to claim that Nutella is an exceptionally healthy food.
13:25:34 <oerjan> ferrero has the _best_ balls
13:26:24 <copumpkin> yum
13:26:55 <oerjan> <Gregor> "Bieng diagnsoed with a seriuos illenss or giong throguh a divocre ofetn triggres derpession."
13:27:01 <oerjan> also apparently dyslexia
13:27:53 <oerjan> or wait are they doing it on _purpose_ to avoid filters?
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13:50:01 <cheater00> oerjan: http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/memes-you-code-in-c-son-i-am-disappoint.jpg
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13:53:07 <Gregor> oerjan: It's intentional, I just enjoyed "derpession" :P
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14:05:38 <quintopia> why have i been repeatedly pinged about space elevator?
14:06:37 <oerjan> i vaguely recall ais523 was about to write something on the wiki about it
14:07:26 <fizzie> It was also on my list of 5 longest programs on the hill.
14:08:45 <oerjan> with that name, ought to be _the_ longest
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14:28:01 <quintopia> well, it was _the_ longest when i first submitted it, which was part of the reason for giving it that name
14:29:10 <fizzie> It still is, if you just discount Gregor's "Big Girls" series (FFSPG/FFLDG).
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14:40:06 <Gregor> "Big Girls" X-D
14:40:40 <fizzie> What, it's not an official name?-)
14:42:26 <quintopia> well, i suppose it is still the longest program that was hand-assembled (the only generated parts are the defend sequences)
14:51:40 <Gregor> My program was assembled by the loving hands of Perl :P
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15:01:22 <ais523> quintopia: waterfall3 was assembled by hand, with a bit of help from copy and paste
15:01:28 <ais523> but I think it's probably a bit shorter
15:01:51 <quintopia> ais523: so sayeth fizzie's measurements earlier.
15:03:32 <ais523> meanwhile, I just spent an hour or so benchmarking recursive hardware
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15:03:59 <ais523> using the famously inefficient fibonacci example as the benchmark (the fib(n) = fib(n-1) + fib(n-2) definition, plus base cases, without memoization or anything like that)
15:04:00 <quintopia> sounds...dull?
15:04:13 <ais523> it can be, although it's fun seeing your code running on the hardware
15:04:22 <quintopia> which hardware?
15:04:27 <ais523> the CPU still outperforms it, but only by a factor of 4 or so
15:04:29 <ais523> and FPGA
15:04:58 <ais523> if it's only slower by a factor of 4, it's going to be much much faster when parallelised; the FPGA's quite capable of running 50 or so copies of the code at once
15:05:15 <ais523> not that that code's at all useful to run multiple copies in parallel, but the concept generalises to more useful programs
15:05:45 <quintopia> what CPU are you comparing to? is it something pipelined?
15:06:07 <ais523> it was my supervisor's MacBook
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15:07:19 <quintopia> was the macbook experiment run with the fib program set to run at real-time priority?
15:07:33 <ais523> no, but we weren't trying to measure that accurately
15:08:00 <ais523> (and I'm not even sure quite how you set something to realtime priority on a Mac; nor am I at all convinced that setting a process that doesn't yield and takes 30 seconds or so to run to rt priority is a good idea)
15:08:11 <quintopia> so basically, even while it was multiplexing 30 odd system services and apps, it still beat the FPGA by a factor of four? :P
15:08:26 <ais523> but I used user-time rather than realtime as the measurement, because it's more accurate to the time that a CPU-bound program takes
15:08:36 <quintopia> ah
15:08:40 <ais523> and of course, it's a single-threaded program, so the CPU and FPGA were both executing completely sequentially
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15:08:53 <ais523> the CPU has a faster clock rate, so you'd expect it to be faster
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15:10:23 <Gregor> Mac OS can't do realtime anyway.
15:10:29 <Gregor> It's even worse at realtime than Windows.
15:11:17 <ais523> and Windows is even worse than Linux
15:11:35 <ais523> which is far from good at it, without a whole bunch of customizations
15:12:48 <ais523> hmm, earthshatteringly important question: does "Brainfuck Joust" have a lowercase b when not at the start of a sentence?
15:12:52 <ais523> my guess is no as that would just be weird
15:13:30 <quintopia> i can see why you had to ask though
15:14:00 <quintopia> the earth slows down its rotation speed while such an important question hangs in the air
15:14:54 <ais523> such a pity that elliott isn't here
15:15:11 <Gregor> Correct capitalization is bRAINfUCK JOUST
15:15:14 <ais523> he'd give a definitive answer that everyone would agree with
15:15:30 <ais523> Gregor: ouch, really?
15:15:34 <ais523> in that case I'd rather stay incorrect
15:15:43 <Gregor> ais523: Yup. I decree it canon.
15:15:44 <ais523> I suppose I should ask Kerim Aydin about it, he invented the sport in the first place
15:17:31 <coppro> that would be correct
15:17:46 <coppro> I refuse to accept that Gregor might possibly even be maybe correct
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15:19:30 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot,
15:19:30 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: it is you get a crown?
15:19:35 <ais523> oh, hi coppro
15:19:51 <ais523> hmm, I can't remember; were you playing Agora when BF Joust was created?
15:19:56 <ais523> did you see the phenomenon start?
15:20:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Phenomenon?
15:20:20 <ais523> phenomenon!
15:20:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Phenomenon.
15:21:26 <ais523> hmm, I'm trying Chromium on that triplock example; it runs the actual runs quite fast, and doesn't crash on the animation, but the animation is very slow for some reason
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15:23:59 <coppro> ais523: I joined after it died
15:24:04 <ais523> ah, pity
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15:36:19 <ais523> what's up with mariolone?
15:36:26 <ais523> that's the second time they've joined and quickly parted again
15:37:06 <quintopia> perhaps they are a banned spambot
15:37:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Bans are very rare here, so...
15:37:38 -!- mariolone has joined.
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15:38:25 <quintopia> its ircname indicates it is a bot
15:40:33 <ais523> it's parting rather than quitting, so it's not a k-line
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15:46:50 <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/5FkE7.jpg
15:46:57 <Phantom_Hoover> I *really* hope this is genuine.
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15:48:24 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Ha
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15:51:29 <elliott> i think cheater is paid to advertise flash-aid whenever anyone has a problem with flash
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15:51:38 <ais523> what does it do?
15:51:57 * Sgeo looks at Circa
15:52:01 <elliott> ais523: just uninstalls "wrong" flash versions and installs the "right" one for ubuntu, it's a firefox plugin
15:52:07 <elliott> i.e. useless
15:52:14 <Sgeo> I get the impression that the current syntax was hastily designed
15:52:18 <elliott> cheater suggested it because pikhq was having flash v-sync issues.
15:54:29 <elliott> 11:02:44 <fizzie> Deewiant: You might find http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/tmp.gif amusing too; the reference might be lost on non-.fi people, though.
15:54:29 <elliott> I'm pretty sure at least 80% of people in the world* know at least Jukka Korpela's site, but I'm struggling to find the reference. (The character encoding?)
15:54:33 <elliott> *figure not made up, absolutely true
15:58:42 <elliott> 13:55:46 <ais523> hmm, I just went and clarified http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust, and removed most of the gratuitous italics
15:58:42 <elliott> 13:55:48 <ais523> is it better now?
15:58:48 <elliott> ais523: did you fix the terrible organisation?
16:00:00 <elliott> ais523: at least, calamari looked at the wiki page and had to ask in here to figure out HTF you won a match; I have a feeling that the losing condition isn't prominent enough... blergh, it's terribly rewritten, I'll rewrite it once I finish integrating Guile into mcmap
16:00:30 <ais523> I fixed the formatting and added more explanation
16:00:37 <ais523> but it could still do with being organised a bit better
16:01:29 <ais523> fun fact: on tape length 29, kettle polarity, waterfall3 takes 97389 cycles to beat simple, and at the time its flag has value -11 and is being cleared upwards with a 2-cycle clear
16:01:39 <ais523> in other words, there are only 22 cycles in it after 97389
16:02:04 <ais523> it'd make a great example for the wiki, except it'd kill everyone's browsers
16:02:11 <ais523> shall I put it in anyway? waterfall3 doesn't really win on short tapes
16:02:24 <ais523> also, did you update interior_crocodile_alligator? it's started beating waterfall3 for no obvious reason
16:03:25 <ais523> especially as it should lose to it quite badly, strategy-wise
16:03:52 <elliott> ais523: I didn't, no
16:03:58 <elliott> probably chainlance got another shiny bug or something
16:05:05 <ais523> oh, I misread
16:05:13 <ais523> it's fizzie_evo4, updated to beat waterfall3
16:05:15 <ais523> that makes more sense
16:05:25 <elliott> 15:52:11 <ais523> hmm, earthshatteringly important question: does "Brainfuck Joust" have a lowercase b when not at the start of a sentence?
16:05:25 <elliott> 15:52:15 <ais523> my guess is no as that would just be weird
16:05:30 <elliott> there's no such thing as Brainfuck Joust
16:05:31 <elliott> only BF Joust
16:05:38 <elliott> If you really wanted to expand it, maybe "brainfuck joust"
16:05:41 <ais523> it was called Brainfuck Joust in the original contract
16:05:46 <elliott> Or Brainfuck Joust at the start of a sentence!
16:05:52 <elliott> ais523: yes, but we don't play a game anything like that any more.
16:06:00 <ais523> people still search for it, though
16:06:19 <ais523> two people had to ask for the win condition, one couldn't find it in the wiki page, the other couldn't find the wiki page via Google
16:06:20 <elliott> ais523: no, cheater searches for it, and cheater is a troll and a (possibly on-purpose) idiot
16:06:32 <elliott> calamari's confusion was due to bad wiki page organisation :P
16:06:41 <elliott> 15:54:17 <ais523> such a pity that elliott isn't here
16:06:41 <elliott> 15:54:37 <ais523> he'd give a definitive answer that everyone would agree with
16:06:41 <elliott> hey, I still think , should give 0 on EOF for majority compliance
16:06:45 <elliott> and you never agreed to that
16:06:51 <ais523> is that majority compliance?
16:07:05 <ais523> I'm not sure there's enough evidence, considering how many crappy BF interps there are
16:07:13 <elliott> ais523: well, all the implementations that matter use , = 0 on EOF, apart from dbc's, which use no-change
16:07:26 <elliott> bff, bff4, esotope, egobf
16:07:28 <ais523> I think programs should be written to allow no-change or 0 on EOF, with a trivial fix for if it's actually -1
16:07:33 <ais523> but that's another matter
16:07:38 <elliott> oh, wait
16:07:40 <elliott> else if( z->c == ',' ){ m[mp] = getchar(); continue; }
16:07:43 <elliott> bff4 is just broken
16:07:47 <elliott> I don't think EOF is guaranteed to be -1
16:07:51 <ais523> also, I think interps with more than an 8-bit tape should use -1 or no-change
16:08:00 <ais523> but there aren't many of those
16:08:00 <elliott> 8-bit tape is also canon :P
16:08:04 <ais523> indeed
16:08:25 <elliott> also, , being 0 is more elegant in most code
16:08:30 <ais523> so, should I post this 97389-cycle monstrosity on the wiki as an example of waterfall3?
16:08:32 <elliott> because the loop structure is fundamentally based on 0
16:08:36 <elliott> ais523: BUT OF COURSE
16:08:39 <elliott> using my wonderful template
16:08:49 <ais523> even though you need a powerful computer to run it and a browser really good at JS?
16:08:56 <ais523> I'm definitely going to describe the program on the wiki
16:09:04 <ais523> but I need to know which example to use
16:09:13 <ais523> and that one shows off quite a lot of what the program can do, but it's so long
16:10:18 * ais523 adds it anyway
16:10:33 <elliott> <ais523> even though you need a powerful computer to run it and a browser really good at JS?
16:10:42 <elliott> This is where we see the fine border between ais523
16:10:48 <elliott> This is where we see the fine border between ais523's universe and everyone else's universe.
16:11:02 <ais523> also, what's the wikisyntax for kettle polarity?
16:11:28 <elliott> ais523: lemme check
16:11:43 <elliott> ais523: |p=1
16:11:48 <elliott> or even, wait
16:11:53 <elliott> yep
16:11:54 <elliott> |p=1
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16:14:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Kettle polarity?
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16:15:13 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Inverted polarity for people who have a problem with being clear.
16:15:14 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, +-
16:15:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
16:16:12 -!- elliott has joined.
16:16:22 <elliott> WTF, X
16:16:27 <elliott> Why are you so crashy X_X
16:16:37 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest97317.
16:16:46 <Phantom_Hoover> It heard you saying you were going to leave it for Wayland.
16:16:46 <Guest97317> 16:26:14 <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/5FkE7.jpg 16:26:21 <Phantom_Hoover> I *really* hope this is genuine.
16:16:48 <Guest97317> it's not.
16:16:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Awww.
16:17:04 -!- Guest97317 has changed nick to Guest97318.
16:17:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Still pretty funny, though.
16:18:04 <Gregor> elliott: Just not happy with that guest number? :P
16:18:18 -!- Guest97318 has changed nick to Guest97319.
16:18:19 <Guest97319> oh dear god
16:18:21 <Guest97319> i'm incrementing
16:18:23 <Guest97319> ais523 is next!
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16:20:23 -!- Phantom__Hoover has changed nick to Phantom___Hoover.
16:20:42 -!- Phantom___Hoover has changed nick to Phantom____Hoove.
16:20:51 <Phantom____Hoove> Damn nick limits.
16:20:56 -!- Phantom____Hoove has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover.
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16:22:01 <fizzie> Oh no, it's contagious!
16:22:13 <Guest97319> NOOOOOOOOOOO
16:22:15 <Guest97319> IT'S GETTING
16:22:16 <Guest97319> EXPONENTIAL
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16:22:34 * Gregor is now known as Gregor
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16:23:23 <Vorpal> as long as it isn't Ackermann
16:24:39 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
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16:25:55 <elliott> And that, friends, is why you always identify.
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16:30:41 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, why?
16:30:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Exponentials.
16:31:05 <fizzie> Oh, the silliness has passed?
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16:31:33 <elliott> char is always at least 8 bits, right?
16:32:17 <fizzie> At least in C99 it is.
16:32:27 <fizzie> Might well be in earlier editions too.
16:32:27 <elliott> packet_add_byte(p, (jbyte) scm_to_char(scm_car(scheme_field)));
16:32:29 <elliott> Good :-P
16:32:34 <elliott> *schar
16:32:38 <elliott> At least I think jbytes are signed.
16:32:41 <elliott> (No?)
16:32:53 <fizzie> Java "byte" is.
16:33:02 <fizzie> So the name would suggest so.
16:33:15 <fizzie> Yes, it's int8_t.
16:36:18 <ais523> btw, before anyone shouts at me, waterfall3's constants were tweaked by a genuine genetic algorithm, not just evolutionary
16:36:26 <ais523> it even did crossover/sexual reproduction
16:37:09 <Phantom_Hoover> What's the difference between genetic and evolutionary?
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16:38:04 <ais523> genetic's a subtype that has reproduction and a genotype, IIRC
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16:42:11 <elliott> ais523: amazing
16:42:40 <variable> ais523: I'm taking a bio class now *sigh*
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16:47:47 <ais523> heh, my description of waterfall3 is really long compared to the others
16:48:11 <ais523> but I was trying to explain what the program actually did, and it's less simple than most of the other descriptions as there are so many cases
16:49:15 <ais523> anyway, I think the triplock is going to turn up a lot more in the future
16:49:22 <ais523> given that two of the best current programs use it
16:52:06 <ais523> also, how come ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys is doing so well
16:52:15 <ais523> is 4 decoys the most common number at the moment?
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16:52:49 <variable> elliott: char is always 8 bits in all versions of C
16:52:56 <ais523> variable: wrong
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16:53:09 <variable> ais523: in C89 it is. In C99 it is. perhaps pre-standard it wasn't
16:53:16 <ais523> it's allowed to be more than 8, although the only other values I know of it having are 9 (some old mainframes), and 32 (DSPs)
16:53:23 <ais523> why do you think CHAR_BIT is in the standards?
16:53:29 <ais523> it does have to be 8 in POSIX, though
16:53:34 <ais523> !bfjoust triple_tripwire_avoider (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2
16:53:36 <variable> ais523: erm your right. I should have said "at least 8 bits"
16:53:46 <ais523> ah, fair enough
16:54:04 <variable> ais523: I was thinking at least but didn't type it. Meh
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16:55:38 <ais523> EgoBot?
16:55:41 <ais523> !help
16:55:44 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
16:55:47 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
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16:56:28 <elliott_> ais523: more chainlance bugs? ;)
16:56:34 <variable> !bfjoust do_nothing_forever [.]
16:56:36 <ais523> no, it hasn't even started
16:56:46 <variable> where are the scores?
16:56:57 <ais523> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/report.txt
16:57:10 <ais523> and http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/breakdown.txt is stats for the last/current run
16:57:17 <ais523> it's still showing the last run, which is a sign that it hasn't started
16:57:23 <ais523> ah, now it has
16:57:47 <variable> I'm curious to see how well do nothing will do
16:57:57 <ais523> around 4.2, typically
16:58:51 <EgoBot> Score for variable_do_nothing_forever: 5.7
16:58:51 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_triple_tripwire_avoider: 37.7
16:59:20 <variable> wow - I won Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys.bfjoust vs variable_do_nothing_forever.bfjoust
16:59:28 <ais523> it's a tripwire avoider
16:59:39 <ais523> !bfjoust _double_tripwire_avoider <
16:59:55 <EgoBot> Score for ais523__double_tripwire_avoider: 0.0
17:00:00 <ais523> !bfjoust quadruple_tripwire_avoider (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>>>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2
17:00:13 <variable> <EgoBot> Score for variable_do_nothing_forever: 5.7 --> heh
17:00:23 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_quadruple_tripwire_avoider: 26.3
17:00:32 <ais523> !bfjoust quadruple_tripwire_avoider <
17:00:35 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_quadruple_tripwire_avoider: 0.0
17:00:47 <ais523> !bfjoust quintuple_tripwire_avoider (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>>>>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2
17:00:59 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_quintuple_tripwire_avoider: 24.3
17:01:11 <ais523> !bfjoust quintuple_tripwire_avoider <
17:01:14 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_quintuple_tripwire_avoider: 0.0
17:01:20 <ais523> !bfjoust sextuple_tripwire_avoider (+)*20(++>)*4(-->[>>>>>(>[+[--[(-)*120[-]]]])*21])*23(>++[-])*2
17:01:23 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_sextuple_tripwire_avoider: 23.5
17:01:28 <ais523> !bfjoust sextuple_tripwire_avoider <
17:01:31 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_sextuple_tripwire_avoider: 0.0
17:01:34 <ais523> looks like 3's optimum on the current hill
17:02:08 <ais523> I suspect optimal tripwire avoidance count will rise as time goes on, with current strategies
17:02:38 <ais523> I should say, current trends
17:04:21 <ais523> attack and defence are so different nowadays
17:04:29 <ais523> as you get to try a whole load of different defences if you like
17:04:34 <ais523> but when you use an attack, you have to commit to it
17:04:48 <ais523> unless it's a really slow one, which is counterproductive
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17:09:08 <variable> !bfjoust this_change_anything [.<>.]
17:09:11 <EgoBot> Score for variable_this_change_anything: 0.0
17:09:14 <variable> !bfjoust this_change_anything [..]
17:09:23 <EgoBot> Score for variable_this_change_anything: 4.4
17:09:37 <variable> interesting
17:10:33 <ais523> the score of a nop is a reflection of the number of tripwire-avoiders on the hill, more than anything else
17:11:00 <ais523> (pure draws don't add to score for whatever reason, so it doesn't count pure defenders as well like you might expect it to, not that pure defenders really exist nowadays)
17:13:42 <variable> !bfjoust just_do_this >
17:13:45 <EgoBot> Score for variable_just_do_this: 4.2
17:14:08 <variable> ais523: I enjoy seeing how simple strategies do in various games.
17:14:14 <variable> !bfjoust just_do_that <
17:14:16 <EgoBot> Score for variable_just_do_that: 0.0
17:14:24 <variable> !bfjoust just_do_that .
17:14:27 <EgoBot> Score for variable_just_do_that: 4.2
17:14:41 <variable> !bfjoust only_add +
17:14:43 <EgoBot> Score for variable_only_add: 5.9
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17:15:02 <ais523> indeed
17:15:42 <ais523> hmm, after reading through discussion at Agora, it's struck me that if I were very evil I could submit a huge number of copies of waterfall3 and push all other programs off the hill (this always happens if you have a program that beats everything, and submit enough copies of it)
17:15:53 <ais523> but I won't, because there wouldn't be much point
17:16:04 <elliott_> at Agora?
17:16:38 <elliott_> ais523: ?
17:17:35 <ais523> the old archives
17:17:38 <elliott_> oh
17:17:39 <ais523> of when BF Joust was created
17:17:52 <elliott_> ais523: hmm, would that still apply with the fixed point scoring system?
17:18:55 <ais523> actually, maybe not
17:19:06 <ais523> given that it obviously draws with itself, that might make a foothold hard to gain
17:19:09 <ais523> it's not obvious either way to me
17:19:30 <elliott_> let's try it out, for science
17:19:33 <elliott_> Gregor: Back up the hill :P
17:19:40 <ais523> it's automatically backed up
17:19:42 <ais523> but I wouldn't suggest it
17:19:47 <ais523> it'll definitely work on the /current/ hill
17:19:52 <elliott_> Gregor: Back up the entire hill manually
17:19:56 <ais523> it's all hypothetical future hills that the issue's about
17:20:10 <Gregor> The hill is in Mercurial anyway.
17:20:18 <elliott_> Gregor: You asked for it
17:20:31 <Gregor> Huh?
17:20:42 <elliott_> !bfjoust ais523_waterfall3_1 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_waterfall3.bfjoust
17:20:48 <Gregor> Oy vey
17:20:48 <EgoBot> Score for elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1: 55.6
17:20:49 <elliott_> !bfjoust ais523_waterfall3_2 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_waterfall3.bfjoust
17:20:53 <EgoBot> Score for elliott__ais523_waterfall3_2: 53.5
17:20:54 <elliott_> I'll do it in /msg X-D
17:21:16 <ais523> anyway, time to go home
17:21:19 <elliott_> ais523: they're actually getting a worse score each time
17:21:27 <elliott_> also, wow, this one is going slowly
17:21:29 <Gregor> "Duh"
17:21:38 <elliott_> Gregor: the question is whether it'll push everything else off
17:22:00 <Gregor> It will, it'll get lower scores but still form a higher block.
17:22:16 <ais523> yep, that's obvious on the current hill
17:22:17 <elliott_> Right. Which is a flaw in the scoring system :P
17:22:23 <elliott_> I'll stop now, Gregor should probably revert that.
17:22:24 <Gregor> No, it's not.
17:22:26 <ais523> I recommend you put the hill back to normal, anyway, at some point
17:22:36 <elliott_> better to revert, since things will have been pushed off
17:22:36 <ais523> to protect it from elliott's evil experimentation
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17:27:25 <Gregor> !bfjoust i_regret_everything <
17:27:28 <EgoBot> Score for Gregor_i_regret_everything: 0.0
17:27:38 <elliott_> wat
17:30:50 <Gregor> Easiest way to get it to rerun the hill :P
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17:53:50 <variable> Gregor: where is your hg repo of the channel logS?
17:55:38 <Gregor> variable: See PM
17:57:22 <elliott_> Gregor: I thought they were public now
17:57:51 <Gregor> They're public if they're in the /topic X-P
17:58:00 <Gregor> Idonno, I may or may not care, I vacillate on that :P
17:58:27 * elliott_ sets up a bot to download all of Gregor's logs every five seconds.
17:58:28 <variable> heh
17:58:50 * variable watches elliott_'s internet connection slow down
17:59:08 <elliott_> I'm running it on my botnet.
17:59:24 <variable> !bfjoust one .
17:59:24 <variable> !bfjoust two [.]
17:59:24 <variable> is there a difference - lets see
17:59:29 <elliott_> no
17:59:34 <elliott_> those programs are literally identical
17:59:41 <elliott_> if they get a different score it's because of things being pushed off the hill
17:59:53 <Gregor> Somebody should make a scientific computing botnet ... spread a virus, hack a bunch of machines, then use them to cure cancer :P
18:00:03 <EgoBot> Score for variable_one: 4.1
18:00:03 <EgoBot> Score for variable_two: 4.1
18:00:14 <variable> Gregor: its called @home
18:00:15 <elliott_> Gregor: It's called Folding@Home
18:00:18 <elliott_> variable: *hi5*
18:00:24 <Gregor> The keyword here is "botnet"
18:00:29 <elliott_> Gregor: Yep
18:00:31 <Gregor> As in "spread by virii"
18:00:48 <elliott_> A memetic virus, but yes.
18:00:54 <Gregor> Oy, that is so many levels of bullshit.
18:00:57 <elliott_> ("Hey, you, install F@H! Join my team!" "Okay!")
18:01:10 <elliott_> Gregor: Fictional Richard Dawkins FUMES AT YOU
18:01:48 <Gregor> Somebody should box up Folding@Home with an actual worm, thereby forcing anybody too stupid to upgrade from Windows $OBSOLETE to at least cure cancer :P
18:02:02 <variable> Gregor: how are memes bullshit ?
18:02:06 <elliott_> Gregor: It has been bandied about too many times that someone should make a virus that upgrades IE.
18:02:20 <elliott_> Targeting IE 6, naturally.
18:02:25 <elliott_> (Upgrades it to Firefox, say X-P)
18:02:40 <Gregor> variable: The description of that as a virus, given my previous statements, is just being a contrarian asshat.
18:02:56 <variable> elliott_: on any windows computer I touch I replace IE with with FF and change the image icon to the IE logo
18:03:05 <elliott_> Me? A contrarian asshat? My my!
18:03:18 <elliott_> variable: You should probably not touch too many Windows computers.
18:03:18 <Gregor> elliott_: I know, it's so unlike you!
18:03:20 <elliott_> Especially corporate ones X-P
18:03:31 <elliott_> Gregor: No it isn't, dickwad!
18:03:48 <Gregor> ... *brain axplote*
18:04:56 <elliott_> Ooh, there's an interesting GC concept. I should steal it for @.
18:05:15 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:05:23 <Gregor> ?
18:05:55 <elliott_> Gregor: @ = elliottOS, my pie-in-the-goddamn-sky pipe dream of an OS; and
18:06:09 <elliott_> Gregor: http://wingolog.org/archives/2011/02/25/ports-weaks-gc-and-dark-matter grep /garbage collectors, yo/
18:06:17 <elliott_> (It's a meta-post-of-posts, the rest is irrelevant.)
18:06:34 <elliott_> (The Linux/x86 stuff is of course irrelevant, it's the GC concept itself that would work well in an OS environment.)
18:08:01 <Gregor> Oh that's clever, using the page fault as your barrier.
18:08:33 <elliott_> And an OS might actually be able to get away with constantly running a GC...
18:08:40 <Gregor> Seems like it would be difficult to guarantee that /eventually/ all pointers get changed, so it's not clear from this tiny description how to ever reuse memory space, but *eh* :P
18:09:09 <elliott_> Actually I wonder if you don't _have_ to run the GC _all_ the time...
18:09:12 <elliott_> As in, just have it as a regular thread.
18:09:18 <elliott_> (I was thinking about devoting an entire core to it.)
18:09:36 <elliott_> (Consider that 4, 6, 8 core systems are becoming ubiquitous. 4-core, at least.)
18:10:08 <elliott_> Gregor: Mind you, in the context of @, it's going to be GC'ing *disk*.
18:10:13 <elliott_> Which is going to be ... interesting ...
18:10:14 <Gregor> Eventually having only one core for GC won't scale, but for the time being *shrugs*
18:10:23 <elliott_> Oh, I just mean one core constantly in use :P
18:10:31 <Gregor> I know.
18:10:40 <Gregor> Eventually having only one core constantly in use for GC won't scale.
18:10:51 <elliott_> Gregor: Specifically, because in @, memory is just cache of disk, and both memory and disk map to artificial 64-bit address space...
18:11:00 <elliott_> So GC happens at the disk level, basically.
18:11:25 <elliott_> Although probably 90% of GC will be done at the memory level, partial GCing of the disk does have to happen *occasionally* (preferably very spread out).
18:11:29 <elliott_> Like say when you run out of disk.
18:11:43 <elliott_> Doing it partially would be far preferable to scanning the whole disk, though X-D
18:12:42 <elliott_> * Gregor slowly backs away from the madman.
18:13:18 <Gregor> *eh*
18:14:21 <elliott_> Gregor: That's Gregor for "slowly backs away from the madman", right?
18:14:56 <Gregor> No
18:14:58 <Gregor> More like *eh*
18:15:42 <elliott_> Gregor: Define *eh* :P
18:16:26 <Gregor> *eh* (i): An interjection meaning, roughly "I find this so unlikely to reach fruition that its details are irrelevant."
18:17:20 <elliott_> Gregor: Hey man, I've written SEVERAL boot sectors.
18:17:28 <elliott_> SEVERAL.
18:17:35 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:18:13 <Sgeo> What were my suggestions for polarity names?
18:18:43 <Sgeo> Source and Antisource I think
18:22:51 * pikhq concludes that elliott needs an injection of time
18:23:46 <elliott_> pikhq: I wish to become a TIME JUNKIE.
18:24:05 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, CLEARLY YOU NEED TO ACCELERATE THE EARTH TO RELATIVISTIC SPEEDS
18:27:02 <elliott_> "I don't know Guile, so forgive me for asking, but why all the parentheses (particularly closing parentheses)? Even with my most parentheses ridden JavaScript or Python code, I've never seen so many. o.o
18:27:02 <elliott_> Even with a text editor that highlights matching pairs of paren's/brackets with good accuracy, I would think it'd be difficult to keep track with that many."
18:27:18 <elliott_> THERE ARE PYTHON AND JAVASCRIPT PROGRAMMERS WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT LISP IS
18:27:21 <elliott_> I AM GOING TO CRY NOW ->
18:28:10 <cheater00> go to hugbox
18:28:36 <elliott_> Hmm.
18:28:45 <Gregor> elliott_: Bahahaha
18:28:49 <elliott_> What is it with libertarians and pretending to be confused to express their idiotic viewpoints?
18:28:51 <elliott_> "I'm confused, why should the government have any say in whatever negotiations I make with an employer?"
18:28:53 <elliott_> Seriously, they do it all the time.
18:29:05 <elliott_> It's always phrased as the innocent question borne of ignorance; the genuine confusion.
18:29:18 <elliott_> Gregor: LAUGHING IS NOT CRYING, THIS SITUATION CALLS FOR CRYING.
18:29:32 <cheater00> i'm confused, why would you be deciding about what a libertarian should or should not be saying?
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18:37:17 <elliott_> pikhq: Wanna try and answer my Haskell code structure question? :-P
18:38:09 <Sgeo> "In Australia, you don't have to put .au"
18:38:51 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/06/AR2011030602662.htmlhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/06/AR2011030602662.html
18:38:53 <Phantom_Hoover> what
18:39:08 <cheater00> i can't believe elliott is infecting this channel with questions about mainstream programming langs
18:39:17 <cheater00> might as well start talking about php
18:39:47 <cheater00> you're really the worst elliottt
18:40:11 <Sgeo> No, my professors are the worst.
18:40:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, ?
18:40:56 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, you have cheater00 on ignore
18:41:05 <Phantom_Hoover> And I've never looked back.
18:41:30 <elliott_> Everybody has cheater on ignore.
18:41:33 <cheater00> Phantom_Hoover: no, that was after you dropped off the deep end!
18:41:38 <elliott_> Well, at least three channel regulars (including me).
18:41:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo doesn't, and was coming dangerously close to taking relationship advice from him.
18:42:00 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: I know, I was watching.
18:42:00 <cheater00> elliott_: are the other two channel regulars other personalities in your head?
18:42:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
18:42:41 <cheater00> Phantom_Hoover: how cute, you'd see Sgeo have a shitty life rather than have me talk to him.
18:42:56 <Sgeo> cheater00, I'm not going to become an asshole.
18:43:02 <cheater00> Sgeo: thank you
18:43:17 <Sgeo> cheater00, which is why I'm ignoring your advice
18:43:25 <cheater00> Sgeo: i know.
18:43:31 <cheater00> Sgeo: the world has enough assholes as it is.
18:43:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, *please* put him on ignore.
18:43:56 <Phantom_Hoover> The only way to get rid of him is if oerjan comes to his senses and bans him or noöne feeds him.
18:44:13 <elliott_> Talking about this in-channel is feeding.
18:44:16 <elliott_> Take it to /msg.
18:44:34 <cheater00> feeeed meeeee
18:49:12 <olsner> elliott_: how goes the shenanigans?
18:49:18 <elliott_> olsner: Totally shanny.
18:49:34 <elliott_> olsner: Well, I think the packing stuff will work. Haven't worked on it much; have been busy integrating Guile into mcmap.
18:49:58 <olsner> but... how will that help bring forth a boot-sector forth?
18:50:11 <elliott_> Obviously I'm going to rewrite it in SCHEME
18:50:14 <elliott_> With a 10-byte Scheme runtime.
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19:05:34 <elliott_> "PAD is a catalog of the author's attempt to lift each and every item in his apartment with his dick. Nothing is spared his strength—from the furniture to the walls, from the coins in the coin jar to the cards in the card decks." --an actual book.
19:06:30 <Gregor> Uhh
19:06:31 <Gregor> Good for him
19:06:47 <elliott_> Gregor: BEST BOOK EVER
19:07:06 <elliott_> It reads like a parody book description :P
19:07:24 <elliott_> As in, a parod...ical {book description}
19:08:09 <Gregor> Pariodical
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19:28:00 <elliott_> wb Patashu
19:28:28 <elliott_> Patashu: you should be able to get on the current bf joust hill without studying extensively; Gregor (and quintopia) started out doing silly programs that only won in certain cases, and their strategies gradually evolved to what they are now
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19:30:00 <Patashu> mhm
19:30:02 <Gregor> Why did you parenthesize quintopia :P
19:30:44 <elliott_> Because ISTR quintopia did slightly less stupid things than you to startwith :)
19:30:46 <elliott_> *start with
19:31:04 <Gregor> Pff :P
19:31:25 <Gregor> !bfjoust gregor_still_does_stupid_things (>)*9([[-]]>)*21
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19:33:01 <EgoBot> Score for Gregor_gregor_still_does_stupid_things: 17.0
19:34:06 <Patashu> lol
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19:38:05 * oerjan swats Gregor for stupid naming -----###
19:38:22 <olsner> Gregor: what happened to your naming convention? it should be masochistic_slave_gregor or something
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19:51:21 <Gregor> oerjan, olsner: Come on, this was a once-off :P
19:53:21 <olsner> no excuse, you need to be careful about these things
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19:54:20 <elliott> or we'll kill you
19:54:23 <elliott> let's kill Gregor with forky knives
19:55:06 <olsner> treat him to ye olde plastic forks with serrated edges
19:55:14 <olsner> mwahaha
19:56:20 <olsner> I hate it when they display the whole episode before it happens, and/or show a recap of the previous episode, but in a way that it's not clear which it is
19:57:37 <Ilari> APNIC down 0.09: 128k+64k+32k+8k+2k+3x1k to Japan, 512k+8k to China, 2k to Cambodia, 4k to New Zealand, 2k+/32 to Australia, 512k+256k to Thailand, /32 to Pakistan.
19:58:33 <elliott> olsner: i hate it when flies die.
19:58:41 <oerjan> > chr $ 128+64+32+8+2+3
19:58:42 <lambdabot> '\237'
19:58:49 <oerjan> bah
19:59:03 <olsner> elliott: no you don't, you don't care the least
19:59:12 <elliott> olsner: but i do.
19:59:18 <elliott> > chr chr chr chr chr
19:59:18 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int'
19:59:19 <lambdabot> against inferred type ...
19:59:34 <elliott> ghc is the only compiler with like three error messages
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20:19:00 <Phantom_Hoover> O... K...
20:19:13 <Phantom_Hoover> AUCTeX's previews have just stopped working for me.
20:19:36 <Phantom_Hoover> I just get little red stop signs everywhere.
20:21:28 <oerjan> YOUR FREE PREVIEW IS OVER
20:22:11 <Phantom_Hoover> NOOOOO
20:23:01 <Phantom_Hoover> This is seriously annoying.
20:24:54 <Phantom_Hoover> It seems to be a Ghostscript issue...
20:27:57 <Phantom_Hoover> [[Error: /typecheck in --setfileposition--]]
20:50:29 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a Debian problem and noöne on #debian cares, so I'll have to grin and bear it.
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21:26:15 <Ilari> Heh. If >0.35 blocks more are used by APNIC this week (there's 4 days for that), then the equivalent of whole APNIC ERX space (~1.55 blocks) has been wiped out in 2 weeks. :-/
21:28:59 <Ilari> Apparently ERX space is 1.58 blocks or thereabouts.
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21:45:11 <Slereah> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/02/17/y-combinator/
21:45:12 <Slereah> heh
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22:40:06 <pikhq_> So, APNIC is going nuts.
22:41:35 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep
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22:46:44 <cheater-> pikhq_: why?
22:48:23 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:48:39 <pikhq_> cheater-: See Ilari.
22:48:49 <pikhq_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baarle-Nassau_-_Baarle-Hertog-en.svg That is one crazy section of border.
22:49:00 <pikhq_> Enclaves of enclaves!
22:50:01 <cheater-> those crazy gales
22:50:31 <pikhq_> And that's a single town.
22:50:36 <pikhq_> Well, de jure two towns.
22:50:47 <pikhq_> And yes, the border *does* go right down the middle of buildings.
22:56:43 <cheater-> does it go right down the middle of rooms though?
22:56:48 <cheater-> that would be fun
22:57:44 <pikhq_> Yes.
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22:57:55 <cheater-> i could put a couch right on the border
22:58:00 <cheater-> and sit there with a buddy
22:58:18 <cheater-> and be like "hey netherlands, can you reach me the potato chips"
22:58:31 <pikhq_> Thank goodness that Europe has gotten relatively sane, and so if you're entitled to be on one side of the border you're entitled to be on the other side.
22:59:00 <cheater-> and he'd be like "sure belgium, let me order my diplomats to do just that."
22:59:04 <pikhq_> I think before Schegen, it could have *technically* been illegal for you to sleep on the wrong side of your own house.
22:59:07 <cheater-> diploMATES.
22:59:14 <cheater-> schengen
22:59:24 <cheater-> heh ya
23:00:10 <cheater-> but i don't think so because in many countries border citizens (people who live in the very vincinity of the border) are usually allowed on both sides
23:00:33 <pikhq_> Not in the US!
23:01:19 <cheater-> usa has no borders inside it
23:01:32 <pikhq_> Though there are exceptions for those buildings that are physically on the border, allowing you to be anywhere *in the building* without going through customs.
23:01:46 <pikhq_> But if you leave through the wrong door, you're screwed.
23:01:55 <cheater-> wait are you talking about state borders?
23:02:00 <pikhq_> No.
23:02:00 <cheater-> there are customs on state borders?
23:02:03 <pikhq_> US-Canada border.
23:02:06 <cheater-> oh ok
23:02:17 <cheater-> well that's stupid but it's MORE understandable
23:02:48 <pikhq_> The Constitution *bans* customs on state borders, IIRC.
23:03:30 <pikhq_> And there's quite a lot of stuff crossing state borders. What with there being 50 states and all...
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23:09:17 <cheater-> cool
23:10:02 <fizzie> pikhq_: The Finland/Sweden border has this thing on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%C3%A4rket_Island_map.svg -- it's not *quite* as complex as your map though.
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23:10:46 * pikhq_ would like to see a fractal border.
23:11:07 <fizzie> The rationale for that goes approximately "whoops, we built this lighthouse on the wrong side, and now we can't change the coastline and/or the overall land area".
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23:40:46 <variable> Is there any brainfuck variant with fork like command?
23:41:14 <variable> I'm thinking a fork and set cell to zero so the parent and child could do different things
23:42:03 <Ilari> Ugh... "Thanks for pointing this out. I never anticipated such high burn rate when I initially programmed the dashboard…" (Lagerholm about site bug report).
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23:47:31 <fizzie> variable: Brainfork.
23:47:41 <fizzie> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfork
23:48:09 <oerjan> fizzie: dammit i was about to type this snarky comment...
23:48:53 <variable> fizzie: ty
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23:55:00 <Ilari> At the beginning of this year, APNIC had (including future allocations from IANA but excluding setaside blocks) 6.18 blocks free. It is now down to 2.80 blocks (more than 50% relative depletion in little over 2 months).
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