←2011-03-10 2011-03-11 2011-03-12→ ↑2011 ↑all
00:00:12 * Sgeo really, really wants to do what he's previously been told was impossible
00:00:33 <zzo38> Sgeo: What things are that?
00:00:37 <quintopia> zzo38: why do you want to know?
00:00:48 <Sgeo> zzo38, booting into an .iso stored on the hard drive
00:01:25 <zzo38> Sgeo: Try figuring it out...
00:01:56 <zzo38> quintopia: Why do I want to know what?
00:02:19 <quintopia> zzo38: the best sizes for pieces on a chess board?
00:02:43 <zzo38> quintopia: To make the TeX chess program and METAFONT chessboard.
00:03:09 <quintopia> so by point sizes you mean, as in font points?
00:03:15 <zzo38> quintopia: Yes.
00:04:08 <quintopia> my answer: there is no best. it all depends.
00:04:22 <zzo38> OK, I guess that does make sense.
00:04:28 <zzo38> However I ought to put in some default.
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00:22:18 <Sgeo> Hmm
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00:38:29 <pikhq> Bleck. DST starts up again soon.
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00:41:59 <Sgeo> pikhq, you there/
00:42:24 <Sgeo> Is there only one Suzumiya Haruhi movie, or is there another, meaning I'm risking watching in the wrong order?
00:53:42 <Ilari> National pastime being screwing around with DST rules (it is in some countries) would be even worse.
00:54:08 <zzo38> I do not like DST either
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00:56:25 <Ilari> Heh. I set this script to print high pings in red (normal ones in red). The threshold is 1ms.
00:57:13 <Ilari> (yes, it classifies 1.2ms ping as high)
01:08:03 <myndzi> lol @ risking watching in the wrong order when it comes to haruhi
01:08:13 <myndzi> it's funny you should mention that... ;)
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01:15:39 <Gregor> MUST
01:15:40 <Gregor> GET
01:15:41 <Gregor> libc.so
01:15:47 <Gregor> MUST!!!
01:21:33 <Gregor> Obsession, thy name is libc.so!
01:23:04 * variable secretly bids against Gregor and forces him to pay me for the domain name
01:23:12 <variable> oops - did I say that in channel?
01:23:16 <Gregor> variable: Closed auction.
01:23:43 <Gregor> The fact that it's a closed auction is the only reason I have a chance :P
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02:34:02 <pikhq> Sgeo: So far, there is only one susùmiya haruhi movie.
02:35:15 <Sgeo> pikhq, ty
02:54:27 <Sgeo> So, the spoiler I saw some time ago is apparently a very severe one
02:58:07 <pikhq> What, Haruhi being omnipotent?
02:58:17 <pikhq> That's not really a spoiler, that's more the premise.
02:59:38 <Sgeo> pikhq, I meant for the movie specifically
02:59:46 <Sgeo> Not ... the premise of the series
02:59:58 <pikhq> :P
03:00:08 <Sgeo> (Although I've seen speculation about Kyon actually being the omnipotent one)
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03:19:32 <Sgeo> Someone needs to put a warning for photosensitive epileptics on this movie
03:24:23 <pikhq> You'd think Japan would know that.
03:24:33 <coppro> heh
03:24:36 <pikhq> Considering the infamous episode of Pokémon only aired there...
03:24:44 <pikhq> And put hundreds in the hospital.
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03:37:35 <Ilari> Lots of flickering?
03:40:34 <coppro> Ilari: yes
03:40:39 <coppro> to say the least
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04:00:39 <Sgeo> pikhq_, should I seek out the Suzumiya Haruhi mangas?
04:05:51 <pikhq_> Sgeo: No.
04:05:57 <pikhq_> Sgeo: You may, however, wish to seek out the novels.
04:06:03 <pikhq_> As those are actually the original media.
04:06:04 <Sgeo> ....huh?
04:06:09 <Sgeo> Oh
04:06:47 <pikhq_> Up to 10 volumes.
04:07:08 <pikhq_> The anime, BTW, covered roughly the first volume.
04:07:30 <Sgeo> I saw the occasional spoiler on TV Tropes
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04:09:17 <pikhq_> Sweet. The Jefferson Bible is getting digitised.
04:09:39 <Zwaarddijk> I don't see how that's particularly sweet
04:09:49 <pikhq_> Zwaarddijk: I take it you're unfamiliar with the Jefferson Bible.
04:09:54 <Zwaarddijk> I know what it is
04:09:58 <pikhq_> Zwaarddijk: I take it you're unfamiliar with the Jefferson Bible.
04:10:01 <Zwaarddijk> ...
04:10:08 <Zwaarddijk> it's the subset that jefferson considered uh, good.
04:10:14 <Zwaarddijk> not particularly exciting
04:10:45 <pikhq_> Among other things, it is devoid of supernatural claims.
04:10:48 <Zwaarddijk> yes.
04:11:01 <Zwaarddijk> anyone can see which claims in the bible are supernatural, so it's pretty trivial to filter those out?
04:11:29 <Zwaarddijk> of course, here's the point about "anyone can do that" "yeah so, it's trivial in retrospect" etc ...
04:11:58 <Zwaarddijk> and yeah sure, it has some historical relevance in that we can learn something about 19th century progressive-religious thought
04:12:18 <pikhq_> I'm sorry that I like the digitisation of important historical documents. :P
04:12:32 <Zwaarddijk> but when it comes to religious scholarship i kind of prefer the historical-critical methods in actual use by irreligious scholars
04:12:55 <Zwaarddijk> I think there's more important historical documents to attend to
04:13:38 <Zwaarddijk> and I don't see why that's particularly interesting. (a friend of mine's been collecting copies of nahuatl codices from just after the spanish conquista, I think those'd be more valuable, for one)
04:15:33 <Zwaarddijk> how much impact did the Jefferson bible have in America, btw?
04:15:42 <Zwaarddijk> here, it's basically just a footnote
04:15:56 <Zwaarddijk> did it inspire lots of people to become somewhat more moderate christians in america?
04:16:08 <Zwaarddijk> or did those that became moderate become so because of other reasons?
04:17:14 <Zwaarddijk> I'm not opposing the digitization, but uh ... I guess I'm a bit difficult to excite
04:17:29 <pikhq_> Absolutely no impact, because Jefferson did not publish for fear of getting lynched.
04:17:46 <pikhq_> However, Jefferson *himself* had an absurd amount of impact in the US.
04:17:56 <Zwaarddijk> certainly
04:18:09 <Zwaarddijk> but I think he, like pretty much everyone has even more impact as a kind of
04:18:22 <Zwaarddijk> uh, canvas onto which people project their own idealization
04:19:00 <pikhq_> I also think it's somewhat important to have a digitisation just so that I can shove it at people who claim that "This is a Christian nation; after all, the founding fathers were Christian."
04:19:16 <pikhq_> Jefferson took God out of the Bible, your argument is invalid!
04:20:24 <Zwaarddijk> pikhq_: that's a good point
04:20:50 <Zwaarddijk> but those people won't read the first paragraph of the jefferson bible even if you stick things in their eyes to keep the eyelids open
04:21:18 <pikhq_> In which case I'd much prefer a normal Bible.
04:21:28 <pikhq_> Significantly heavier object for beating clue into people.
04:21:46 <Zwaarddijk> I recommend you get a seriously commented edition
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04:22:01 <Zwaarddijk> those can get rather heavyweight
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04:22:57 <Zwaarddijk> you could probably use them for sailing ballast, even
04:24:40 <pikhq_> Well aware.
04:24:53 * pikhq_ is a preacher's child. Those suckers are fucking *heavy*.
04:25:17 <Zwaarddijk> I like the kind of language game that eisegesis and exegesis really is
04:25:27 <Zwaarddijk> I would like a game that basically just is a big book
04:25:33 <Zwaarddijk> and deriving things out of that book
04:25:50 <pikhq_> Interesting concept.
04:25:53 <Zwaarddijk> which may be why I feel so attracted to the talmud
04:26:01 <Zwaarddijk> I know some games like nomic kind of get close
04:26:06 <pikhq_> Only problem is that it may evolve into a world religion.
04:26:11 <Zwaarddijk> probably not, though
04:26:29 <Zwaarddijk> if you make the content incomprehensible enough
04:26:41 <Zwaarddijk> I'm not saying stupid enough, I'm saying genuinely meaningless
04:26:49 <Zwaarddijk> the bible does contain meaning, it's just mistaken meaning
04:26:58 <Zwaarddijk> this should be meaning that barely registers as such
04:27:14 <pikhq_> And you'll get bible code shit coming out of it.
04:27:50 <Zwaarddijk> but yeah
04:27:52 <Zwaarddijk> i've sort of
04:28:08 <Zwaarddijk> taken to ~trolling christian fora just for the sake of playing the game of exegesis/eisegesis
04:28:13 <pikhq_> XD
04:28:19 <Zwaarddijk> in general, I know the bible and christian history better than them anyway
04:28:20 <Zwaarddijk> so ...
04:28:34 <pikhq_> That's not very hard.
04:28:58 <Zwaarddijk> what's worst is
04:29:04 <Zwaarddijk> I know the bible better than the other trolls too :|
04:29:21 <Zwaarddijk> mostly because of my interest for the talmud, though
04:29:27 <Zwaarddijk> that's such a fascinating thing
04:29:33 <Zwaarddijk> guys discussing things back and forth
04:29:37 <Zwaarddijk> seldom concluding anything
04:29:57 <Zwaarddijk> and going off on tangents that you can spend days trying to figure out why that tangent even came up
04:30:10 <Zwaarddijk> it's awesomely weird
04:30:59 <Zwaarddijk> in a way, I'm happy with the state of computational linguistics the day a computer actually can sort of understand what the talmud is on about
04:31:20 <Zwaarddijk> because then, we have conquered language games.
04:35:44 <Zwaarddijk> zen koans could maybe be another test case
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05:22:34 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | Contrary to public belief[2], portals do not conserve momentum..
05:33:16 <pikhq_> ... Wut? There is a JVM written in .Net.
05:33:32 <pikhq_> I put a VM in your VM so you can VM while you VM.
05:38:44 <fizzie> Do you mean IKVM?
05:40:21 <pikhq_> Yeah.
05:41:45 <fizzie> It has an ahead-of-time compiler too if you don't wan't to VM while you VM. (Though "double JIT" does remind a bit of Battle Programmer Shirase.)
05:41:51 <fizzie> s/wan't/want/
05:46:43 <pikhq_> I'm a bit surprised that it works *well* though.
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06:58:23 <cheater-> pikhq_: there's python written in python.
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07:08:32 <pikhq_> cheater-: Yo dawg.
07:08:59 <cheater-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qukCulDOJzg
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09:17:46 <fizzie> The glitziest thing ever: http://mbostock.github.com/d3/
09:37:48 <Zwaarddijk> i just got a defretted guitar :)
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11:02:04 <fizzie> "Don't fret, it's been defretted"?
11:04:41 <nooga> bass?
11:22:23 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | we're compiling via a functional language.
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12:21:07 <quintopia> so this japan thing...haven't read the news...is it an eqrthquake or a tsunami?
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12:37:15 <Ilari> Both.
12:37:31 <Ilari> The earthquake caused a tsunami
12:39:28 <Ilari> Reportedly the wave height at shore was ~10m in some places. Tsunami from earthquake top off at about 35m wave height (at shore). Some other mechanisms can generate huge tsunamis with 500m+(!!!) wave height.
12:40:22 <Ilari> Yes, over half a kilometer height.
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12:51:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Ilari, you meant Vajont, yes?
12:58:02 <Ilari> Not really. Even if it was a huge wall of water (~250m).
13:00:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, Lituya Bay.
13:00:35 <Ilari> I think it was that...
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13:11:28 <nooga> microsoft xna is so lame
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13:12:33 <elliott_> 00:42:03 • Sgeo really, really wants to do what he's previously been told was impossible
13:12:35 <elliott_> 00:42:24 <zzo38> Sgeo: What things are that?
13:12:37 <elliott_> 00:42:38 <Sgeo> zzo38, booting into an .iso stored on the hard drive
13:12:39 <elliott_> Possible, but *only* with both bootloader and kernel support.
13:12:49 <elliott_> The kernel runs on the bare metal; it *must* know where to find its files, and thus know to mount the filesystem the iso is on and read it.
13:12:54 <elliott_> Only some versions of Linux can do this.
13:13:07 <elliott_> You can do this with GRUB 2 and some versions of Linux.
13:13:12 <elliott_> I think grml can do it.
13:13:43 <elliott_> 01:23:51 <Sgeo> pikhq, you there/
13:13:43 <elliott_> 01:24:15 <Sgeo> Is there only one Suzumiya Haruhi movie, or is there another, meaning I'm risking watching in the wrong order?
13:13:43 <elliott_> Yes, this is _definitely_ a hard-to-Google question.
13:13:44 <elliott_> Definitely.
13:15:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Incredibly.
13:15:27 <Phantom_Hoover> It's like the guy in my school who allegedly posed as a girl in order to coerce naked pictures out of lesbians.
13:15:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Because there's a shortage of pictures of naked lesbians.
13:16:18 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: The only thing there are more naked pictures of than lesbians are people pretending to be lesbians.
13:17:10 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, even if he is some kind of lesbian photo connoisseur it's still way more effort than it's worth.
13:17:20 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU
13:17:24 <elliott_> BY WAY OF BAD JOKE
13:17:29 <Phantom_Hoover> TOTALLY
13:17:59 <Phantom_Hoover> In other news I want to get the latest version of Chrome but I have no idea how.
13:18:22 <Phantom_Hoover> *Chromium
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13:19:05 <elliott_> Chromium or Chrome, and which latest version?
13:19:18 <elliott_> i.e. for Chrome, which channel; for Chromium, which release or... uhhh... VCS commit
13:19:35 <elliott_> s/Chroimum, which/Chromium,/
13:20:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Whichever one has WebGL.
13:21:05 <elliott_> I refus eto let you be Sgeo.
13:21:07 <elliott_> *refuse to
13:21:19 <Phantom_Hoover> It's just for a fractal viewer thing that looks interesting.
13:21:26 <elliott_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/WebGLScreenShot.png "Screenshot from a WebGL-based game running in a web browser"
13:21:29 <elliott_> Meet Sgeo
13:21:31 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm not going to add it to Google or anything.
13:22:20 <elliott_> Anyway, presumably you just want to switch to the official "ever-so-slightly-closed-source" Google version that updates through apt.
13:22:32 <elliott_> That's easier than building Chromium and keeping it up to date.
13:22:37 <Phantom_Hoover> You mean Chrome or...
13:22:45 <elliott_> Yes.
13:22:59 <elliott_> So remove Chromium and install the deb from http://www.google.com/chrome (it adds an apt repository, installs from it, and then self-destructs).
13:23:14 <elliott_> That's the stable channel, which should be fine (it has WebGL).
13:23:17 <elliott_> I use it.
13:23:53 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, meet optbot. He died, but I revived him.
13:23:53 <optbot> elliott_: due to the way floating-point works
13:24:10 <elliott_> Yes. optbot's revival was entirely due to floating-point minutiae.
13:24:11 <optbot> elliott_: you fail
13:24:13 <elliott_> optbot: :(
13:24:14 <optbot> elliott_: Version information is in manifest/*.ver within each zip. Contents
13:24:19 <elliott_> optbot: Oh?
13:24:19 <optbot> elliott_: Yeah.
13:24:24 <elliott_> optbot: OH YEAH.
13:24:24 <optbot> elliott_: well so was this
13:25:01 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: He sets our channel topic every six hours and babbles in the same way.
13:25:06 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, in other stupid-ring-related news, turns out that rhenium looks awesome but has unknown toxicological effects, so it's unwise.
13:25:08 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Like the good old days.
13:25:22 <fizzie> fungot: Competition!
13:25:23 <elliott_> He was here before you!
13:25:23 <fungot> fizzie: my english is too bad, but if it did not exceed fnord per gcc session.' then x is done.
13:25:32 <elliott_> fizzie: Erm, considering that optbot inspired fungot's babbling in the first place... :P
13:25:33 <optbot> elliott_: well, at least they're honest
13:25:33 <fungot> elliott_: arcus translation is better, amiga or atari.
13:25:43 <elliott_> optbot: fizzie is NOT honest at all
13:25:43 <optbot> elliott_: fuck
13:25:44 <fizzie> It's still competition.
13:25:44 <elliott_> *!
13:25:49 <elliott_> optbot: Yeah. You done a bad.
13:25:49 <optbot> elliott_: "nor will they nerver be integrated"?
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13:26:06 <elliott_> optbot: I hope you're never integrated with fungot, at least. That sounds wrong.
13:26:06 <optbot> elliott_: and he thought that the outside of that boundary-line was "definition" and then he asked me: What do you think is on the inside of that boundary?
13:26:06 <fungot> elliott_: or at least a month, and wasn't quite done ( modulo stuff like ipv4/ 6), still, i don't
13:26:21 <elliott_> optbot: You shouldn't talk to that other bot. He's a bad influence. Also crazy.
13:26:21 <optbot> elliott_: probably
13:26:24 <elliott_> optbot: Definitely.
13:26:24 <optbot> elliott_: Also, you can't share Gmail messages.
13:26:28 <elliott_> optbot: Why not?
13:26:28 <optbot> elliott_: Well, that was a fun experiment anyway :P
13:26:38 <elliott_> optbot: It may have been fun, but talking to fungot is NOT good for your health.
13:26:39 <optbot> elliott_: windows*
13:26:39 <fungot> elliott_: is that something you are looking for more bdb like approach. feeley doesn't agree. it " should replace the implementation of tco.
13:26:45 <elliott_> optbot: It's not good for your... Windows?
13:26:45 <optbot> elliott_: It's interesting how a beautiful mathematical framework can look all contrived and stuff once you turn it into a programming language
13:26:51 <elliott_> optbot: You're contrived.
13:26:51 <optbot> elliott_: 18
13:26:55 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Behold!
13:27:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Which beautiful mathematical framework is he talking about?
13:28:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit, Chrome didn't get Chromium's settings.
13:29:21 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: mv .config/chromium .config/google-chrome
13:29:23 <elliott_> Same for .cache, I think.
13:29:26 <elliott_> This is not difficult.
13:29:32 <elliott_> (Remove the target directories first, obviously.)
13:29:37 <elliott_> (And close Chrome before all of it.)
13:29:45 <elliott_> <Phantom_Hoover> Which beautiful mathematical framework is he talking about?
13:29:50 <elliott_> How should I know? He's a bot.
13:30:50 <Phantom_Hoover> I know, but these are pulled from the logs, are they not?
13:32:32 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: How would I know?
13:34:09 <Phantom_Hoover> [[The "matter at hand" I was addressing was the double standard in ais523's argument, which is relevant, even if you don't understand why.]]
13:34:19 <Phantom_Hoover> — the idiot who disagreed with ais
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13:38:36 <elliott_> how on earth does that moron still have 4 points
13:38:45 * elliott_ upvotes MatmaRex for being the only non-stupid reply
13:39:06 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, there are two replies.
13:39:16 <elliott_> Yes.
13:39:17 <elliott_> Yes there are.
13:39:25 <elliott_> One of them is stupid, and the other one, MatmaRex wrote.
13:39:47 <elliott_> "To anyone who thinks this discovery has only dry theoretical importance, you're mistaken: It is no longer possible to righteously chastise people who claim to "program in HTML"." --the same idiot, top of the thread
13:39:51 <elliott_> So wait...
13:39:56 <elliott_> The discovery could be said to only have "dry theoretical importance"...
13:40:03 <elliott_> yet it only "proves" something in "practice", not in "theory"...
13:40:23 <elliott_> Hey copumpkin, how's your downvote brigade these days
13:40:43 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, c'mon, that's just a joke.
13:40:54 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Shaddap. :p
13:41:17 <elliott_> "Nope. While this very clever person was able to create a Turing-complete machine in HTML and CSS, it doesn't run by itself. The user has to repeatedly click to step it."
13:41:18 <elliott_> "ahem, Turing-completeness is about problems, not machines."
13:41:22 <elliott_> No. No it isn't.
13:41:26 <elliott_> (Thankfully this one has -4 points.)
13:42:49 <elliott_> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/KindFact
13:42:52 <elliott_> Now this is awesome.
13:43:02 <elliott_> I might just be saying that because Conor proposed it.
13:43:07 <elliott_> It is impossible to say.
13:44:56 <quintopia> where is the whole html/css TC debate?
13:45:01 <quintopia> someone throw me a link here
13:46:19 <elliott_> reddit.com/things
13:49:26 <quintopia> oh
13:49:33 <quintopia> that isn't much of a thread
13:50:16 <quintopia> i thought it was going to be a bunch of folks being idiots. but it was just one guy.
13:50:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, and now half of #esoteric is on him.
13:50:52 <elliott_> Yes.
13:50:54 <elliott_> All three of us.
13:51:03 <quintopia> i upvoted wreckerone though. very insightful
13:51:05 <Phantom_Hoover> LIKE BASICALLY HALF
13:51:18 <elliott_> All six actives, of which ten or Finnish.
13:51:19 <elliott_> *are
13:52:09 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, so anyway
13:52:19 <Phantom_Hoover> IRIDIUM OR RUTHENIUM
13:52:49 <elliott_> IRIDIRUTHENIUM
13:52:56 <Phantom_Hoover> NO ALLOYS
13:52:58 <elliott_> THE MOST DANGEROUS ALLOY
13:53:11 <Phantom_Hoover> ALLOYS ARE THE WORK OF SATAN
13:55:02 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.diamondworld.net/contentview.aspx?item=4242
13:55:03 <Phantom_Hoover> HMM
13:55:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, what?
13:55:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Based on the listed prices for the .5mm iridium wire, it actually seems relatively cheap to make a ring from it.
13:56:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Admittedly, metalworking costs need to be accounted for, but still.
13:59:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, I need to make the final draft of that Comic Sans essay.
14:15:32 -!- asiekierka has joined.
14:16:27 -!- cpressey has joined.
14:17:36 <cpressey> i feel ill
14:17:42 <elliott_> The Pythonistas are everywhere.
14:17:45 <elliott_> They could be in here right now.
14:17:47 <elliott_> It's not safe!
14:18:14 <cpressey> the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart.
14:18:18 <cpressey> it was a cheat-quine
14:18:24 <elliott_> :D
14:18:35 <cpressey> and she was like, "now try writing this in C!" howls of derisive laughter.
14:18:40 <elliott_> `addquote <cpressey> the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. <cpressey> it was a cheat-quine
14:18:43 <elliott_> argh two spaces at the end
14:20:02 <elliott_> optbot: What is your opinion on Python?
14:20:02 <optbot> elliott_: what direction?
14:20:09 <elliott_> cpressey: What direction is all the Python?
14:20:12 <elliott_> Left?
14:21:14 <cpressey> all i know is it's got me down
14:21:18 <elliott_> optbot: Down.
14:21:18 <optbot> elliott_: I found this, rather interesting: gopher://blubb.ch/11/software/fbf
14:21:20 <cpressey> http://en.literateprograms.org/Quine_%28Python%29
14:21:24 <elliott_> cpressey: Gopher will set you free.
14:21:49 <elliott_> "Another way of implementing quines is to have them print the contents of their own files. This is made possible by the fact that Python is an interpreted language; in C, such a quine would be impossible, due to the difference between source code and executable file."
14:21:50 <elliott_> fml
14:21:59 <cpressey> the slide was only up for a moment but I believe it was one from that page:
14:22:01 <cpressey> a= 'print "a=",repr(a);print "exec(a)"'; exec(a)
14:22:01 <elliott_> I like the part where these programs aren't literate at all
14:22:15 <elliott_> cpressey: hmm, I'm not sure that counts as a cheat
14:22:21 <cpressey> repr? please
14:22:27 <elliott_> oh
14:22:31 <elliott_> well right, that's pretty lame
14:22:47 <elliott_> very lame, but maybe not a cheat quine (i'd reserve cheat for programs that read their own source literally)
14:22:50 <cpressey> AND exec()
14:22:54 -!- pumpkin has joined.
14:22:56 <elliott_> (with the empty program not being considered a quine at all)
14:23:01 <cpressey> that's like, double-cheat
14:23:02 <elliott_> cpressey: well there's that standard lisp quine
14:23:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
14:23:27 <elliott_> ((lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x))) '(lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x))))
14:23:34 <elliott_> quote is... sorta... like repr... kinda
14:23:43 <elliott_> well, (list 'quote x) is sorta like repr. kinda.
14:23:46 <elliott_> hmm what was the one with eval
14:23:47 <elliott_> whatever
14:23:48 <HackEgo> No output.
14:23:51 <cpressey> 10 LIST 10
14:24:04 <Phantom_Hoover> <cpressey> it was a cheat-quine
14:24:07 <elliott_> `addquote <cpressey> the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. <cpressey> it was a cheat-quine
14:24:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Cheat-quine?
14:24:09 <elliott_> stupid HackEgo
14:24:12 <Phantom_Hoover> You mean it read the file?
14:24:22 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: RTFEverything else :P
14:24:23 <HackEgo> 333) <cpressey> the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. <cpressey> it was a cheat-quine
14:24:29 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: < cpressey> a= 'print "a=",repr(a);print "exec(a)"'; exec(a)
14:24:52 <elliott_> scheme@(guile-user)> ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
14:24:53 <elliott_> $2 = ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
14:24:55 <elliott_> well that works
14:25:27 <elliott_> cpressey: that quine thing on the literate programmings site just makes it a worse rosettacode...
14:25:33 <elliott_> they don't even print the <<filename>>= part of the program!
14:25:35 <cpressey> it's not really that it was a cheat-quine that makes me ill. it's that it had nothing to do with the rest of the talk, wasn't explained, and was apparently lifted off a web page with no credit given
14:25:54 <elliott_> the language source itself is the result of compilation, that's like a "quine" that prints out its own machine code
14:25:59 <elliott_> (not that that wouldn't be impressive)
14:26:01 <elliott_> *that /that/
14:26:15 <elliott_> especially if it stored its own source and compiled it on the fly :)
14:26:24 <cpressey> the rest of the talk was dippy too, actually, and the whole thing is just pissing me off.
14:26:33 <elliott_> as in, with its own compiler.
14:26:43 <elliott_> cpressey: you haven't told us what exciting pythonicity it was about!!!
14:26:51 <elliott_> We need to keep up, you know.
14:26:58 <cpressey> elliott_: it was about... "data science"!
14:27:04 <elliott_> Data... science!
14:27:05 <elliott_> DATA SCIENCE
14:27:10 <elliott_> It's about doing science on data.
14:27:13 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, elliott_ wants a picture of Guido van Rossum looking disappointed.
14:27:16 <elliott_> Also known as: science.
14:27:16 <Phantom_Hoover> YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO
14:27:18 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: ALREADY FOUND ONE
14:27:25 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, MORE DISAPPOINTED
14:27:34 <elliott_> (Actually I'd like to see him angry now, please get Guido really angry and/or disappointed and snap a picture.)
14:27:45 <elliott_> Say you, uhh...
14:27:52 <elliott_> Wrote a Python VM in Perl.
14:28:03 <elliott_> And, um, made it force everyone to use tabs.
14:28:09 <cpressey> snark != anger
14:28:18 <elliott_> And since you work for Microsoft it's going into Visual Studio 2012.
14:28:27 <elliott_> And being advertised as Microsoft Python.
14:28:34 <elliott_> Actually don't say that, he might cry.
14:28:57 <elliott_> Ooh, ooh, I know!
14:29:20 <elliott_> "I write voting machines that give every vote to the Republicans. And it wouldn't have been possible, without Python."
14:31:46 <cpressey> http://us.pycon.org/2011/blog/2010/10/02/first-pycon-keynote-speaker-announced-hilary-mason/
14:32:16 <elliott_> cpressey: "I'm a computer science professor, data scientist, and web geek."
14:32:22 <elliott_> cpressey: WHY IS SHE A PROFESSOR
14:32:31 <cpressey> this is not the talk, but it is another talk by the same person, this year, so you can experience the /kind/ of pain I just went through: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWszSUm-x2Y
14:32:32 <elliott_> "She has discovered two new species, loves to bake cookies, and asks way too many questions."
14:32:35 <elliott_> Poor species.
14:32:41 <elliott_> specieses.
14:32:54 <elliott_> "[LOL IT'S EARLY COFFEE JOKE]"
14:32:59 <elliott_> cpressey: _must_ i sit through this?
14:33:04 <cpressey> i have to decide now whether to kill myself or go on a month-long binge of exotic drugs
14:33:07 <cpressey> elliott_: YOU MUST
14:33:09 <elliott_> :<
14:33:12 <elliott_> cpressey: do both
14:33:15 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, exotic drugs.
14:33:19 <Phantom_Hoover> THINK OF THE ESOLANGS
14:33:24 <elliott_> "I want to talk about data, and data, and people who work with data."
14:33:25 <elliott_> And data.
14:33:27 <cpressey> THINK OF THE PUKE
14:33:55 <cpressey> ok, well
14:34:05 <cpressey> "regular" talks coming up
14:34:17 <elliott_> cpressey: plz liveblog here
14:34:17 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, should we send reinforcements?
14:34:35 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: just be prepared... for anything
14:34:37 <elliott_> TOO MUCH DATA
14:34:46 <elliott_> cpressey: Liveblog or no reinforcements!
14:34:55 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, we might be able to get a flash drive with GHC on it through.
14:35:22 <elliott_> Honestly, if I could be in either cpressey's position, or in the position of someone endangered by the events in Japan...
14:35:28 <elliott_> Hey, it'd be a nice swim.
14:35:50 <elliott_> cpressey: Is GHC 6.4 acceptable? 7 won't fit on the hundred floppy disks we have allocated to the task.
14:36:06 <elliott_> They will be dropped from a helicopter. Please be prepared to dodge as the roof falls.
14:36:24 <cpressey> i dunno about liveblogging but i'll keep you abreast of any further sickness.
14:36:26 <cpressey> oh
14:36:27 <cpressey> cooool
14:36:44 <elliott_> cpressey: We're going to drop them so as to hit as many Pythonistas as possible.
14:36:44 <cpressey> that's just what this needs, actually
14:36:58 <elliott_> cpressey: Please purchase a device that can read 3 1/2" floppy disks.
14:37:27 <cpressey> i'll see what i can do. need to dive back into the fray now
14:37:30 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving).
14:37:41 <elliott_> A true American hero.
14:38:35 <elliott_> pikhq_: So, is RTK3 actually worth buying, in the long run? 'TIS MONEYCOSTING
14:40:43 -!- augur has joined.
14:42:42 <quintopia> whoa. cpressey came back for...minutes!
14:43:07 <elliott_> quintopia: he was here yesterday too.
14:43:09 <elliott_> he's at PyCon.
14:43:13 <elliott_> we don't know how much longer he'll last.
14:43:14 <quintopia> yes
14:43:22 <quintopia> why am i not at pycon
14:43:27 <elliott_> the 100 floppies should get there in a few hours
14:43:29 <quintopia> it's just miles away
14:43:30 <elliott_> quintopia: because pycon is the worst thing ever
14:43:37 <quintopia> and i could meet cpressey!
14:43:58 <elliott_> PyCon, from the root words pyc (torture-rape) and on (demonic-place), is more commonly known as "Hell".
14:45:45 -!- sftp has joined.
14:47:26 -!- cpressey has joined.
14:47:34 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, any news?
14:47:39 <cpressey> i only have an hour of battery
14:47:40 <elliott_> cpressey: * cpressey (~cpressey@conference/pycon/x-mcktulsevreylzfb) has joined #esoteric
14:47:42 <elliott_> cpressey: your hostname
14:47:43 <elliott_> cpressey: dear god
14:47:52 <elliott_> cpressey: use webchat.freenode.net so it overrides it with your ip
14:48:03 <cpressey> i'm at a talk about celery. it's dull. THAT'S GOOD.
14:48:10 <elliott_> YOU'RE TAINTED
14:48:16 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: +b *!*@conference/pycon/*.
14:48:19 <Gregor> Problem?
14:48:27 <elliott_> I wholeheartedly approve... but actually remove that :P
14:48:29 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: -b *!*@conference/pycon/*.
14:48:31 <Gregor> :P
14:48:38 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
14:48:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, WILL YOU HELP ME WITH MY ENGLISH HOMEWORK
14:48:57 <quintopia> what talk are you in cpressey?
14:49:07 <elliott_> quintopia: it's about celery.
14:49:14 <quintopia> i got that much
14:49:15 <elliott_> i'm going to assume he means literally celery
14:49:16 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: THEN REPLACE "YOUR" WITH "YORE"
14:49:16 <elliott_> not http://celeryproject.org/.
14:49:20 <elliott_> it's probably actual celery.
14:49:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, NO I WANT YOU TO HELP ME SAY HOW AWFUL COMIC SANS IS
14:49:37 <cpressey> yeah, and my laptop is freaking out
14:50:14 <elliott_> cpressey: it can smell the python.
14:50:23 <elliott_> I suggest uninstalling it from your system to reassure it.
14:50:49 <cpressey> quintopia: http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/1/
14:51:00 <Gregor> Comic Sans is French for "not funny"
14:51:13 <cpressey> i can barely type -keystrokes dropped or repeated
14:51:16 <elliott_> More like "without funny" :P
14:51:23 <elliott_> cpressey: SUDO APTITUDE PURGE PYTHON
14:51:33 <elliott_> -2.5 or -2.6 or -25 or whatever :P
14:51:39 <cpressey> i read that as "sudooooooooooooooooooooooooooo appetite"
14:51:44 <cpressey> well, not the ooooooo part so much
14:51:46 <cpressey> that was my keyboard
14:51:51 <Gregor> elliott_: I'm bending it a bit to make it grammatically meaningful :P
14:52:09 <elliott_> Sudo Appetite, the worst superhero.
14:52:30 <oklopol> "<Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, NO I WANT YOU TO HELP ME SAY HOW AWFUL COMIC SANS IS" <<< you're still on this?
14:52:40 <Gregor> Apatite, the best mineral there is.
14:52:41 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, I need to redraft it.
14:52:51 <oklopol> alright
14:53:42 <oklopol> i don't get any of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWszSUm-x2Y
14:53:59 <Phantom_Hoover> That's a good sign.
14:54:20 <oklopol> except that amazing stuff is going on
14:54:21 <elliott_> How PyCon orders partners: Media, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond.
14:55:05 <quintopia> diamond, eh
14:55:23 <cpressey> oklopol: is that the link i pasted earlier?
14:55:43 <elliott_> yes
14:55:50 <nooga> Media, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Ladder.
14:55:56 <elliott_> nooga: yes.
14:57:00 <cpressey> oklopol: welcome to data science
14:57:05 <quintopia> s/ladder/artificial heart/
14:57:14 <oklopol> :D
14:57:19 <quintopia> those things are expensive
14:57:34 <oklopol> i've taken courses like that
14:57:50 <oklopol> well. less hype, but anyhow something about data. i didn't get it.
14:58:25 <elliott_> oklopol: SCIEEEENCE
14:58:28 <elliott_> data on science.
14:58:31 <elliott_> it's science data
14:58:32 <elliott_> data science!
14:59:02 <cpressey> i hould try to save battery for more objectionable moments than this talk.
14:59:04 <cpressey> later
14:59:13 <elliott_> cpressey: go to guido
14:59:15 <oklopol> laterses
14:59:18 <elliott_> wherever guido is
14:59:18 <elliott_> find him
14:59:20 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, why aren't you being WITTY
14:59:23 <elliott_> and tell him to say hi to #esoteric
14:59:24 <Phantom_Hoover> :(
14:59:28 <elliott_> and we will greet him
14:59:30 <elliott_> with love
14:59:32 <elliott_> and eternal carnage
14:59:41 <Gregor> (Best kind of love)
14:59:46 <Phantom_Hoover> So should I try to get APT guy into PyCon as an agent?
14:59:48 <elliott_> And murder.
14:59:51 <elliott_> The best best kind of love.
15:00:01 <Phantom_Hoover> *APT Guy
15:02:09 <elliott_> Meanwhile: http://i.imgur.com/rcna5.jpg
15:03:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Can I put "IN PIAM MEMORIAM" on [[Chris Pressey]]?
15:03:18 <elliott_> No.
15:03:19 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:03:25 <Phantom_Hoover> :(
15:04:14 <quintopia> so chris is interested in testing eh
15:04:41 <elliott_> quintopia: I have this feeling he's there because of his employer :P
15:04:46 <elliott_> JUST A HUNCH THOUGH.
15:04:50 <Phantom_Hoover> quintopia, iridium or ruthenium?
15:04:56 <quintopia> ruthenium
15:05:13 <quintopia> elliott_: who's his employer?
15:05:23 <elliott_> quintopia: Sekrit.
15:05:28 <elliott_> JOKE RESPONSE
15:05:32 <elliott_> quintopia: Cat's Eye Technologies.
15:06:29 <quintopia> well, he signed up for a testing BoF tomorrow...
15:06:38 <quintopia> so something to do with testing
15:06:52 <elliott_> quintopia: ?
15:06:54 <elliott_> are you cyberstalking him? :)
15:07:10 <elliott_> he's just a code monkey afaik. which involves involves writing tests in this Enlightened Age
15:07:20 <quintopia> i see
15:07:28 <elliott_> http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/
15:07:28 <elliott_> Conference Schedule
15:07:29 <elliott_> E
15:07:29 <elliott_> = EXTREME PyCon
15:07:30 <elliott_> *E =
15:07:53 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey being a code monkey depresses me.
15:08:03 <elliott_> Beats manager.
15:08:10 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
15:08:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Why, what do they do?
15:08:25 <elliott_> Fuck all.
15:09:03 <quintopia> code mlnkey seems okay. you have a chair and you get paid. then you can think about whatever you want when you get home
15:09:04 -!- copumpkin has joined.
15:09:58 <elliott_> Code mlnkey.
15:10:03 <elliott_> quintopia: except it's Python.
15:10:11 <elliott_> You have to deal with the Pythonistas and their Pythonicness.
15:10:22 <elliott_> Extreme Programming Best Practices Design Patterns
15:10:23 <elliott_> brb vomit
15:10:38 <quintopia> :D
15:10:40 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, I am so glad I have never heard anyone say these things.
15:10:59 <elliott_> quintopia: also their code.
15:11:04 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Just wait for the First International #esoteric Conference.
15:11:05 <quintopia> shit, accidental caps lock
15:11:18 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, where there will be 14 people?
15:11:18 <elliott_> I'm going to give a talk on Extreme Design Pattern Practices and how to use your code fu to become a ninja rockstar.
15:11:25 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Whoa, that many?!
15:11:28 <quintopia> elliott_: eh fixing their code is easier than talking to them
15:11:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm.
15:11:41 <elliott_> Depends where it is :P
15:11:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Regulars who aren't idiots...
15:12:01 <elliott_> Finland would be the "logical" choice to maximise participants, but then anywhere in that part of Europe is pretty much interchangable, flights take like 0 seconds and cost £0.
15:12:21 <elliott_> There's a non-negligible amount of American here after all.
15:12:33 <elliott_> Probably the UK or Finland would be the best choice... not that anyone would show up.
15:12:53 <quintopia> is it still normal to say a certain building is "in" a certain street in british english?
15:13:08 -!- blueraf has joined.
15:13:11 <elliott_> Uhhh... dunno, maybe.
15:13:12 <elliott_> blueraf: ello
15:13:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, coppro, elliott_, fizzie, Ilari, oklopol, me (I hope), pikhq_, quintopia, Sgeo (arguably), Vorpal (*very* loosely).
15:13:55 -!- blueraf has left (?).
15:14:16 <elliott_> , ineiros, tswett, oklopol
15:14:18 <quintopia> oerjan too
15:14:21 <elliott_> oerjan
15:14:22 <elliott_> augur
15:14:26 <elliott_> pikhq_:
15:14:32 <quintopia> olsner
15:14:33 <elliott_> nooga
15:14:41 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:14:46 <elliott_> Everyone else almost certainly doesn't care enough to come :-P
15:14:50 <augur> elliott_: what
15:14:51 <elliott_> tswett: AND WHY IS THAT
15:14:56 <elliott_> augur: Blame PH
15:14:56 <augur> it was my birthday yesterday
15:14:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Would ineiros?
15:14:59 <augur> congratulate me
15:15:04 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: fizzie would drag him along.
15:15:08 <elliott_> augur: Congratulations on not dying.
15:15:18 <elliott_> tswett: I wonder if that's a script.
15:15:21 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:22 <Phantom_Hoover> augur, congratulations, you have successfully allowed time to affect you.
15:15:26 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:15:28 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Aww.
15:15:31 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:31 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:31 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:34 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:35 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:35 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:36 <elliott_> tswett tswett tswett
15:15:41 <elliott_> ...
15:15:44 <elliott_> tswett
15:15:57 <oklopol> i get to come twice?
15:16:01 <elliott_> tswett
15:16:08 <elliott_> oklopol: yes, just like a woman!
15:16:09 <elliott_> ARF ARF ARF
15:16:11 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:16:30 <elliott_> tswett: Either you have rand() calls, or that's not a script :P
15:16:32 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Y'know what normal users who aren't idiots do? Contribute to the Gregoran Somalian Relief Fund
15:16:58 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:17:41 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:17:46 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:18:01 <elliott_> Donate to me; I'm *definitely* a paedophile.
15:18:03 <elliott_> There is no ambiguity.
15:18:41 <oklopol> haha you mean you like kids your own age
15:18:43 <oklopol> hahahahaa
15:18:48 -!- wareya has joined.
15:18:53 <oklopol> that thing never gets old
15:18:56 <oklopol> ...elliott that is
15:18:57 <oklopol> xdDDD
15:18:59 <oklopol> XXDDDD
15:19:00 <elliott_> xD
15:19:01 <oklopol> anyhow.
15:19:13 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_ cannot age.
15:19:19 <Phantom_Hoover> It's been scientifically proven.
15:19:25 <elliott_> This just in:
15:19:26 <elliott_> <tswett> Dicks dicks dicks.
15:19:59 <oklopol> wait tswett doesn't respond to pings on this channel?
15:20:04 <oklopol> que
15:20:06 <tswett> Come, now. I don't just say "dicks dicks dicks". I say specific things about dicks.
15:20:14 <elliott_> <tswett> Dicks dick.
15:20:21 <tswett> That sort of thing.
15:21:24 <Gregor> Such as "come, now"
15:21:38 <Phantom_Hoover> `addquote <Warrigal> My penis is definitely way smaller than that.
15:21:39 <HackEgo> 333) <Warrigal> My penis is definitely way smaller than that.
15:21:45 <elliott_> tswett: confirm/deny
15:21:54 <tswett> Let me look it up.
15:22:14 <elliott_> In the the famous Sizes of Things as Compared to Tanner Swett's Genitalia?
15:22:20 <elliott_> A true classic.
15:22:24 <tswett> No, on reddit. I got about 70 karma points for that one.
15:22:37 <elliott_> And then promptly exchanged those karma points for money.
15:22:39 <tswett> Okay, 61 karma points.
15:22:43 <elliott_> It's like being a prostitute.
15:22:54 <tswett> And yes, the wording and punctuation and everything are all correct.
15:23:00 <tswett> http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/ch7hq/it_takes_7_seconds_for_food_to_pass_from_mouth_to/c0sk64d
15:23:19 <elliott_> Your penis is indeed definitely smaller than that 404.
15:23:31 <Gregor> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_actual_size.png
15:23:31 <Phantom_Hoover> What is karma actually good for?
15:23:49 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: some guy once redeemed his karma for a golden reddit alien torso.
15:23:55 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: It can buy several goods such as blowjobs and blowjobs.
15:23:55 <tswett> Gold-painted, rather.
15:24:01 <elliott_> Also, blowjobs.
15:24:05 <tswett> Someone click on Gregor's link and tell me what it's a picture of. :P
15:24:07 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, not even iridium?
15:24:08 <elliott_> It is a currency based on blowjobs.
15:24:21 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, god only knows.
15:24:30 <elliott_> tswett: It's a picture of your penis as compared to the sizes of other objects.
15:24:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, and HDTV aerial.
15:24:34 <Phantom_Hoover> *an
15:24:40 <tswett> elliott_: oh, okay.
15:24:43 * tswett clicks.
15:24:59 <elliott_> Gregor: Oh, that's an aerial? :P
15:25:19 <tswett> I can't tell what that big long thing on top is.
15:25:20 <Gregor> It's an ANTENNA
15:25:37 <elliott_> Scientists have yet to discover what the big long thing on top of tswett's penis is.
15:25:40 <tswett> I guess it's an aerial, like Gregor said.
15:25:55 <elliott_> tswett: Quick, go downvote ais523 and upvote __j_random_hacker! http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/g0d5g/breaking_news_html5css3_is_turing_complete/c1k03fg
15:26:01 <elliott_> Here I am using the psychological principle of reverse psychology.
15:26:10 <tswett> That thing's a good fifteen feet long.
15:26:18 <tswett> (Metric conversion: about 5 meters.)
15:26:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Jesus, he's up to 7 points.
15:26:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Who are these idiots?
15:27:13 <Gregor> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_really_actual_size.png
15:27:44 <tswett> Is that a picture of an HDTVA?
15:27:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
15:28:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Actual-size.
15:28:08 <Gregor> REALLY actual size.
15:28:12 <tswett> Oh, it's a picture of this: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=hdtva&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8433157347537932007&sa=X&ei=ZUl6TZvfDsHirAGsleiQBg&ved=0CEAQ8wIwAg#
15:28:18 <elliott_> Gregor: Expect next picture to compare it to the Milky Way.
15:28:34 <tswett> Here's a better link to it: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?cid=8433157347537932007
15:28:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Then the observable universe.
15:29:19 <elliott_> Then Gregor's nose.
15:29:26 <elliott_> (The aerial is slightly smaller)
15:29:35 <tswett> The next picture will compare it to itself.
15:29:55 <elliott_> tswett: Excuse me, having executed a successful Jew joke, the thread of discussion is now over.
15:30:05 <tswett> Oh, okay.
15:30:09 <Gregor> elliott_: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_the_one_true_and_real_actual_.png How'd yah know :P
15:30:12 <tswett> Is Gregor of Jewish descent?
15:30:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes. Also ENGLISH
15:30:23 <elliott_> tswett: You misspelled ``kikeular''.
15:30:52 <tswett> But "kike" isn't a Latin root ending in a consonant.
15:30:53 <oklopol> executing jews is NOT a joke
15:31:04 <elliott_> That Hubble picture would work too.
15:31:05 <oklopol> even if they're succesful jews.
15:31:09 <oklopol> *s
15:31:10 <elliott_> http://www.firstpr.com.au/astrophysics/hubble-deep-field/Hubble-Deep-Field-1024-wide.jpg
15:31:20 <Gregor> elliott_: I made these YEARS ago :P
15:31:30 <elliott_> Gregor: You must complete the sequence.
15:31:50 <elliott_> Ending with it resting on top of your nose.
15:31:57 <elliott_> The largest object possible.
15:32:34 <oklopol> i'm so gonna go out to drink with some friends now
15:34:28 <elliott_> memetech.com now completely replaced.
15:34:39 <elliott_> I will have to attempt to contact the owner.
15:34:41 <Phantom_Hoover> What was it?
15:35:29 <elliott_> oiu manifesto + cap system pdf.
15:37:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
15:37:27 <elliott_> Emailed.
15:38:37 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: See http://web.archive.org/web/20080411221531/http://www.memetech.com/, though that lacks the cap stuff.
15:39:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, right.
15:39:48 <Phantom_Hoover> You'd've thought that with all these people trying to make essentially the same OS, some tangible progress would have been made.
15:41:13 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: There's no way everyone's trying to make the same OS; the most common property is distinctness from Unix.
15:41:36 <elliott_> The fact that their bases (plural of basis!) share quite a bit of material is due only to the *sheer obviousness* of those ideas.
15:41:39 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, well, no filesystem is very common.
15:42:01 <elliott_> Yes, because you have to try hard to be stupid to invent a filesystem if you ignore Unix.
15:42:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Fair enough.
15:46:49 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:48:18 * Phantom_Hoover decides to test the Law Of #esoteric Expertise.
15:48:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Anyone in here know about metalworking?
15:48:57 <elliott_> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god. <Phantom_Hoover> I've become a metallurgy hipster. <Phantom_Hoover> Iridium is way too mainstream.
15:48:57 <HackEgo> 334) <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god. <Phantom_Hoover> I've become a metallurgy hipster. <Phantom_Hoover> Iridium is way too mainstream.
15:52:32 <tswett> I know the tiniest bit about metalworking.
15:52:51 -!- Zuu has joined.
15:52:53 <tswett> Metals melt when you get them hot enough. Liquid metals can be mixed.
15:53:10 <tswett> Metal is easier to work when it's hotter.
15:53:37 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, regrettably not enough.
15:53:38 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: URANIUM RING
15:53:39 <tswett> When metal is cooled slowly, it ends up relatively soft; if it's cooled quickly, it ends up harder.
15:54:04 <elliott_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/HEUraniumC.jpg ;; perfect ring material
15:54:18 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, in case you missed it, I spent yesterday evening looking up platinum group metals and their practicality as rings.
15:54:28 <tswett> Oh, cool.
15:55:10 <tswett> Which of the platinum group metals is the cheapest?
15:55:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Osmium looks really cool, but it has the obnoxious property of oxidising in air to a highly toxic gas.
15:55:24 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, not sure.
15:55:37 <Phantom_Hoover> There's not really a single source that I can find that's grounded in reality.
15:55:57 <elliott_> Really obnoxious property.
15:56:18 <elliott_> [Name]... will you marry me? [PSSSSSSSSSSSHT] "Well, our love will persist beyond the grave."
15:56:42 <elliott_> (PSSSSSSSSSSSHT is the noise osmium makes when it oxidises into a highly toxic gas.)
15:56:50 <elliott_> Douchebag Osmium:
15:56:53 <elliott_> LOOKS REALLY PRETTY
15:56:55 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, nah, it does it really slowly.
15:57:01 -!- asiekierka has joined.
15:57:16 <Phantom_Hoover> But I still wouldn't want it around my finger for protracted periods.
15:57:17 <tswett> Looks like at the moment, palladium is in fact cheaper than platinum.
15:57:21 <tswett> Weird, isn't it.
15:57:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Interesting.
15:57:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Still TOO MAINSTREAM.
15:57:46 <elliott_> Palladium is quite the borings.
15:57:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Same goes for ruthenium, although it's normally electroplated AFAICT.
15:57:57 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: DEMAND RADON RING
15:58:16 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, a ring made of gas?
15:58:27 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Demand solid radon ring.
15:58:47 <tswett> And rhodium appears to be more expensive than platinum.
15:58:49 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, I did find a source for iridium and osmium which listed prices.
15:59:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, rhodium is really rare and really useful, hence expensive.
15:59:15 <Phantom_Hoover> s/osmium/rhenium/
15:59:49 <Phantom_Hoover> I found samples of osmium and ruthenium on eBay, although I suspect they'd be even harder to use than wire.
16:00:00 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: ^{286}Uut ring please.
16:00:10 <elliott_> Half-life of ~20s, that's good enough for anyone.
16:00:24 <Phantom_Hoover> (Rhenium has the second-highest melting point of any metal.)
16:00:52 <elliott_> LITHIUM RING
16:00:53 <elliott_> DO IT NOW
16:00:53 <tswett> Roentgenium is more noble and more discovered than ununtrium.
16:01:10 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: the highest is tungsten, right?
16:01:17 <elliott_> tswett: On the other hand, your mom is more noble than ... things.
16:01:30 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, yep.
16:01:37 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: I really want a ring made out of CP.
16:01:39 <tswett> My chemistry teacher once said something like, "Why don't we make rings out of lithium? Because they would burn your hand off."
16:01:45 <elliott_> So, ununbium, please.
16:01:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, it does appear that others have considered rhenium rings, but it's still hipsterish enough.
16:01:57 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, CP?
16:01:59 <tswett> elliott_: made out of... carbon phosphide?
16:02:07 <elliott_> Like I said, ununbium.
16:02:13 <elliott_> Also known by mainstreamers as CoPernicium.
16:02:17 <tswett> Ooh.
16:02:23 <elliott_> Unfortunately for SOME reason it was assigned Cn instead of Cp.
16:02:28 <elliott_> Probably because of Jews.
16:03:10 <tswett> I wonder what the heaviest element with a Wikipedia article is.
16:03:22 -!- cpressey has joined.
16:03:41 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, any news?
16:03:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Have the Pythonistas turned you?
16:04:02 <cpressey> was at a talk about unit tests. it was relatively sane, so i listened.
16:04:12 <cpressey> i'm about to experience: http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/245/
16:04:28 <elliott_> oh man.
16:04:36 <elliott_> cpressey: found a socket to charge yet?
16:04:38 <cpressey> yeah, i'm doing this one for your entertainment.
16:04:45 <tswett> Looks like it's untriseptium.
16:04:45 <cpressey> and yes, i'm plugged in
16:04:46 <elliott_> wow, this is a metapresentation.
16:04:50 <elliott_> I am astonished.
16:04:51 <cpressey> and no, they haven't turned on me yet.
16:05:02 <elliott_> but have they turned you on?! obligatory, had to, move along
16:05:13 <tswett> Darn atomic instability. I want every possible chemical element to be possible.
16:05:29 <cpressey> there are two categories of talks, afaict: 'novice' and 'extreme'.
16:05:40 <elliott_> cpressey: yeah I quoted
16:05:44 <elliott_> "E = EXTREME PyCon"
16:05:45 <elliott_> --http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/
16:05:59 <elliott_> this does not appear to be an extreme course. so maybe we can handle it.
16:06:01 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, even the ones that don't make alloys?
16:06:06 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: MAKE THEM
16:06:22 <cpressey> all extreme talks are given in henry rollins style!
16:06:31 <elliott_> that's a pycon i could support.
16:07:20 <elliott_> cpressey: How much do we have to pay you to get you to run up on stage and yell about how unChristian this evil feminist tripe is?
16:07:51 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, OMG BEST IDEA
16:08:17 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Read as "asteroid naming"; well, they already do theorems and stars and things.
16:08:21 <elliott_> But YES I AGREE
16:08:33 <elliott_> I wonder what the most promiscuous possible alloy is.
16:08:55 <cpressey> Helium-Neon
16:09:18 <quintopia> yourmomium
16:09:41 <elliott_> cpressey: yelling yet?
16:10:33 <cpressey> i have to wait for the most embarassing possible moment
16:11:40 <elliott_> yessssss
16:11:46 <elliott_> make sure someone's videoing
16:16:50 <elliott_> 13:29:59 <SimonRC> Is there anything like the Internet WRT that affair?
16:16:50 <elliott_> 13:30:27 <SimonRC> I can't think other time that taking firm action against a problem makes it 100,000 times worse.
16:16:50 <elliott_> Sure thing, Barbara Streisand.
16:17:44 <Phantom_Hoover> What's he talking about
16:17:45 <Phantom_Hoover> *?
16:20:26 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: 09 f9
16:32:01 <elliott_> 08:31:10 <pikhq> There is no OS but GNU, and Linux is one of it's kernels.
16:32:01 <elliott_> YES MR PIKHQ
16:32:39 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, YOU ARE NO LONGER A MEMBER OF THE SET OF COOL PEOPLE
16:45:49 <Phantom_Hoover> ...what.
16:46:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Rhenium has a higher Mohs hardness than iridium.
16:46:44 <Phantom_Hoover> But a lower shear modulus.
16:47:12 <elliott_> 13:30:08 <CakeProphet> ...you made a program that...
16:47:12 <elliott_> 13:30:10 <CakeProphet> prints itself?
16:47:15 <elliott_> WHAT IS THIS WITCHERY
16:47:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Please tell me that was his idiot incarnation.
16:47:45 <elliott_> What.
16:48:00 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving).
16:59:41 -!- elliott_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:02:52 -!- elliott has joined.
17:04:46 <elliott> optbot!
17:04:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | could it be rescripted so that the ball, as soon as it hits it, just disappears and you lose a point?.
17:13:37 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
17:20:44 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#The_language_defined_by_the_Revised_Revised_Revised_Revised_Revised_Report_on_the_Algorithmic_Language_Scheme
17:21:27 <elliott> NO!! THERE IS BUG!!
17:22:12 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | !kill 2.
17:27:45 <elliott> optbot!
17:27:45 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | the protocol must be a valid URI protocol..
17:27:47 <elliott> optbot!
17:27:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | Yeah, I suppose it could be used like that.
17:27:48 <elliott> optbot!
17:27:48 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip.
17:28:07 <Phantom_Hoover> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:28:07 <lambdabot> (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:28:18 <Phantom_Hoover> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:28:19 <lambdabot> (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:28:48 <Phantom_Hoover> ...unpl doesn't do eta elimination?
17:29:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, that's not eta elimination.
17:29:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's unpl.
17:29:58 <elliott> @unpl flip
17:29:58 <lambdabot> (\ a b c -> a c b)
17:30:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It expands things that are used in pointfree code.
17:30:14 <Phantom_Hoover> :t flip
17:30:14 <elliott> flip is one of those things.
17:30:15 <lambdabot> forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b
17:30:22 <elliott> (Note: Caleskell.)
17:30:37 <Phantom_Hoover> I see that.
17:33:23 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:34:08 <oerjan> argh the bubble wrap of topics
17:34:18 <elliott> oerjan: wut
17:34:22 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:34:23 <lambdabot> (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:34:24 <elliott> we did it earlier :)
17:34:31 <elliott> seems like flip^N = flip
17:34:31 <elliott> because
17:34:39 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:34:39 <lambdabot> (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:34:41 <oerjan> elliott: i thought you might which is the only reason i resisted
17:34:46 <elliott> @unpl flip
17:34:46 <lambdabot> (\ a b c -> a c b)
17:34:47 <elliott> @unpl flip flip
17:34:47 <lambdabot> (\ b c f -> c f b)
17:34:49 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip
17:34:49 <lambdabot> (\ c f -> c f (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:34:51 <elliott> ah
17:34:53 <elliott> flip^3 === flip
17:34:55 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip
17:34:55 <lambdabot> (\ f l -> f l (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:34:58 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip
17:34:58 <lambdabot> (\ l o -> l o (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:35:00 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:35:00 <lambdabot> (\ o r -> o r (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:35:09 <elliott> hm
17:35:14 <elliott> flip^(3+n) === flip
17:35:39 <oerjan> flip and fmap, are there any others like that...
17:37:15 <oerjan> flip flip flip flip = flip flip flip, surely...
17:37:49 <oerjan> oh right that's what you said
17:38:01 * oerjan read it as flip^(3+n) === flip^n
17:38:52 * oerjan gets his cod dinner
17:46:57 <elliott> oerjan: quick, we need more deadfish implementations!!!!!
17:48:37 <oerjan> i'm afraid my dinner is not useful for computation. not until the results reach my brain, anyhow.
17:49:50 <elliott> oerjan: no no i just mean it in general
17:49:59 <elliott> i've done the language defined by the Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme
17:50:06 <elliott> but we only have 22 implementations
17:50:08 <elliott> that's not nearly enough
17:50:22 <oerjan> ah. i may have a certain experience in the matter.
17:50:34 <elliott> cpressey has done falcon :D
17:50:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Don't tell Sgeo!
17:50:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON A RHENIUM RING?
17:51:05 <elliott> it doesn't use oob though :(
17:51:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Most awesomely crazy Falcon idea: store numbers in arrays of arbitrary objects.
17:51:52 <elliott> X-D
17:52:01 <Phantom_Hoover> I might even suggest that...
17:52:08 <elliott> Store a natural as a list of log_2 random numbers.
17:52:11 <elliott> *log_2(n)
17:52:20 <elliott> Or even log_2(n) empty lists.
17:58:47 * Phantom_Hoover gets his troll on
17:58:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: psht
17:58:56 -!- Vonlebio has joined.
17:59:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Waste of time (I'm in #falcon preemptively, mind you)
18:07:08 -!- Vonlebio has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:07:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit, Falcon always beats me when it comes down to stupidity.
18:07:54 <elliott> Drag to level, beat with experience, etc.
18:08:33 <Phantom_Hoover> quintopia, incidentally, I have decided that iridium is a pretty terrible investment.
18:10:06 <Phantom_Hoover> As the suppliers I have found have been technical suppliers.
18:10:19 <elliott> And?
18:10:45 <Phantom_Hoover> So I wouldn't count on the prices being either stable or indicative of the "worth".
18:11:05 -!- cpressey has joined.
18:11:14 <Phantom_Hoover> As actually refining the rarer platinum group metals is a very tricky process.
18:11:20 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, how goes the conference?
18:11:23 <cpressey> still on the metals, eh
18:11:32 <cpressey> "a raw string cannot end in a single backslash (since the backslash would escape the following quote character)"
18:11:35 <elliott> Heavy 'uns!
18:11:42 <elliott> <cpressey> "a raw string cannot end in a single backslash (since the backslash would escape the following quote character)"
18:11:45 <elliott> lawl
18:11:50 <elliott> I like how raw strings aren't actually raw, mind you.
18:11:55 <cpressey> literal string syntax in python is a trainwreck
18:12:29 <elliott> cpressey: I kinda liked James Hague's idea when he suggested that strings should have no escapes at all, and that \n should be added "by default" with printing functions...
18:12:38 <elliott> With a few symbolic constants for the few common ones.
18:12:41 <cpressey> i like that idea too
18:12:45 <cpressey> or, something like it
18:12:45 <elliott> (And chr() or similar for the rest.)
18:12:55 <elliott> I print \n quite a lot, so I'm not sure I totally agree. Maybe just have string interpolation, but no escales.
18:12:57 <elliott> *escapes.
18:13:06 <elliott> So if char syntax has \n, you'd say ${'\n'} or whatever for a newline.
18:13:10 <elliott> ($ is a bad choice though.)
18:13:10 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, how do you put the string terminator?
18:13:16 <elliott> *escapes.
18:13:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Same way you put other escapes.
18:13:30 <cpressey> i'm at the end of my first "extreme" talk; i couldn't find much difference with the "novice" talks in terms of complexity of content, but the speaker *does* have a kind of gravelly voice
18:13:31 <elliott> "foo " + DQUOTE + " bar".
18:13:31 <elliott> Or.
18:13:36 <elliott> "foo " + '"' + " bar".
18:13:38 <Phantom_Hoover> But the escaping isn't done at the parse level, no?
18:13:43 <elliott> Or "foo #{'"'} bar".
18:13:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes it is...
18:14:14 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought the point is that "foo\n" => "foo\n" and the \n is only substituted when printed?
18:14:30 <elliott> ...
18:14:40 <cpressey> whose point was that?
18:14:42 <elliott> For reference, my jaw is currently situated on the floor.
18:14:52 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> cpressey: I kinda liked James Hague's idea when he suggested that strings should have no escapes at all, and that \n should be added "by default" with printing functions...
18:15:09 <elliott> Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline.
18:15:10 <cpressey> i may be misremembering his post
18:15:30 <elliott> http://prog21.dadgum.com/76.html
18:15:30 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, so it doesn't s/\n/<actual newline>/?
18:15:35 <elliott> er, it's not that one
18:15:36 <elliott> it's...
18:15:42 <elliott> where is it :D
18:16:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No. That's an unbelievably terrible idea.
18:16:17 <cpressey> i don't like the idea of i/o functions "executing" escape sequences
18:16:24 <cpressey> well, or maybe i do, but i don't think so
18:16:30 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, erm, I don't understand then.
18:16:32 <elliott> Maybe if it was some kind of expand() function.
18:16:33 <cpressey> i really have no idea
18:16:37 <elliott> <elliott> Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline.
18:16:38 <elliott> <elliott> Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline.
18:16:38 <elliott> <elliott> Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline.
18:16:41 <elliott> woo multipastes
18:16:45 <elliott> cpressey: aka printf :)
18:16:51 <cpressey> expand() function seems to make more sense, but... lazy/streaming
18:16:52 <elliott> And lawd knows everyone loves printf!!
18:16:59 <Phantom_Hoover> So it is a message to the print function, not the parser?
18:17:00 <elliott> cpressey: sprintf!!
18:17:04 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: THERE IS NO \N
18:17:09 <elliott> print(x) := print(x); printnewline()
18:17:09 <elliott> good god
18:17:23 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, NOW I AM THE CONFUSED
18:17:28 <Phantom_Hoover> OH RIGHT
18:17:31 <Phantom_Hoover> THAT MAKES SENSE
18:17:41 <cpressey> pascal
18:17:43 <cpressey> Write()
18:17:45 <cpressey> WriteLn()
18:17:49 <elliott> cpressey: haskell
18:17:50 <elliott> putStr
18:17:51 <elliott> putStrLn
18:17:55 <elliott> (although putStr is ugly)
18:18:29 <elliott> hmm, i should write a real forth os rather than trying to finish this 510-byte thing :)
18:18:38 <elliott> butbutbut i almost have a compiler...
18:18:41 <cpressey> in haskell it should be Ln . putStr
18:18:52 <elliott> cpressey: that... almost makes sense
18:18:54 <elliott> except not really
18:19:02 <elliott> data Output = Str String | Ln [String]?
18:19:21 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, what's wrong with putStr?
18:19:35 <cpressey> well, Ln x just appends a newline to the string x... then you putStr it.
18:19:55 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's ugly.
18:20:00 <elliott> cpressey: that would be "putStr . Ln".
18:20:02 <Phantom_Hoover> I know you have high standards, but how can you mess up an output function that simple?
18:20:06 <elliott> but then Ln would have to be a constructor, not a function.
18:20:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: IT'S NOT A BAD FUNCTION
18:20:10 <elliott> IT'S A BAD NAME
18:20:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh.
18:20:18 <elliott> You're misinterpreting simple statements a lot today :P
18:20:23 <cpressey> elliott: that's what i wanted to write, but i forgot which compose operator did which
18:20:24 <elliott> All two of 'em.
18:20:33 <elliott> cpressey: there is no operator for the other way around (unless you define one)
18:20:36 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, at no point did you indicate you were talking about the name rather than the function.
18:20:43 <cpressey> there isn't? hm
18:20:49 <cpressey> wonder what i was thinking of then
18:20:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Considering that cpressey's and my points were names...
18:20:53 <elliott> <cpressey> pascal
18:20:53 <elliott> <cpressey> Write()
18:20:53 <elliott> <cpressey> WriteLn()
18:20:53 <elliott> <elliott> cpressey: haskell
18:20:53 <elliott> <elliott> putStr
18:20:54 <elliott> <elliott> putStrLn
18:21:00 <elliott> cpressey: F#? :-P
18:21:02 <elliott> Scala?
18:21:11 <elliott> Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: Scala?
18:21:17 <elliott> Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: F#?
18:21:19 <cpressey> everyone must learn Scala
18:21:20 <elliott> Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: Haskell?
18:21:28 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, NOOO
18:21:32 <Phantom_Hoover> DON'T TURN INTO SGEO
18:21:34 <elliott> cpressey: everyone must learn Scala, or every other language
18:21:35 <elliott> it's equivalent
18:21:38 <cpressey> Scala is the hot new thing because no one uses it
18:21:49 <cpressey> therefore: talk about a lot!
18:22:08 <cpressey> anyway
18:22:13 <cpressey> bbl
18:22:15 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving).
18:22:32 <elliott> That cpressey, so zany.
18:23:08 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey is to languages what I am to metals.
18:23:18 <elliott> No...he's not?
18:23:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, no, that's completely wrong.
18:23:44 <Phantom_Hoover> *Sgeo* is to languages what I am to metals.
18:23:57 <elliott> Sexually attracted to?
18:24:02 <Phantom_Hoover> ...no?
18:24:04 <elliott> <PH> Yes, exactly.
18:24:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I cannot attribute Sgeo's behaviour to anything other than languagephilia.
18:24:19 <elliott> (A cromulent word.)
18:24:55 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, neophilia seems more appropriate.
18:25:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: COBOL :-D
18:25:28 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, "neo" in the sense of "I haven't used it before".
18:25:37 <elliott> Joke.
18:28:08 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=271521
18:28:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Chuck Norris is so badass sanity flees from him.
18:29:16 <elliott> <3
18:29:51 <variable> Chuck Norris is the only person who knows how bad jokes about him ar
18:29:53 <variable> e
18:30:23 <Phantom_Hoover> variable, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON RHENIUM
18:30:24 <elliott> Order Chuck's brand new book, "The Official Chuck Norris Fact Book: 101 of Chuck's Favorite Facts and Stories"
18:30:24 <elliott> Read more: U.S. public schools: Progressive indoctrination camps http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=271521#ixzz1GJtbVKvc
18:30:27 -!- cheater00 has joined.
18:30:56 <variable> Phantom_Hoover: Re is a chemical. That is all :-)
18:31:48 <Phantom_Hoover> variable, ACKNOWLEDGE ITS AWESOMENESS
18:31:58 * variable smacks Phantom_Hoover
18:32:42 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:37:45 <tswett> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=878UP&x=0&y=0
18:38:05 <tswett> Serial number A-113. Model "CARL FREDRECKSENS". Experimental balloon-type aircraft.
18:44:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
18:44:27 <tswett> Of course, the picture is much more interesting than that information.
18:45:54 <elliott> tswett: I like the part where you didn't show us a picture.
18:45:54 <tswett> http://i.imgur.com/tC1aZ.jpg
18:45:57 <elliott> Damn.
18:46:07 <tswett> I agree. Damn.
18:46:12 <elliott> oh god
18:46:15 <elliott> is that real.
18:46:18 <elliott> :D
18:46:32 <tswett> It would be kind of silly if it weren't real.
18:46:32 <elliott> hmmbut, i thought some totally sciency people concluded you'd need like, so many balloons :|
18:46:35 <elliott> how can i believe this picture.
18:46:45 <tswett> "Hey, we made an imaginary thing based on an imaginary thing. Isn't that awesome?"
18:46:50 <elliott> CLEARLY
18:46:51 <tswett> I suppose the house is really light or something.
18:47:04 -!- pumpkin has joined.
18:47:41 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:47:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
18:47:58 <tswett> Besides, these balloons are big.
18:48:42 <elliott> That's what... she... said?
18:48:46 <elliott> In response to seeing that picture.
18:55:04 <oerjan> <elliott> cpressey: there is no operator for the other way around (unless you define one) <-- Control.Arrow.>>>
18:55:20 <elliott> oerjan: yeah, if you're an elitist academician
18:55:46 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, it's wantonly wasteful of a scarce resource.
18:55:57 <elliott> You misspelled "awesome".
18:56:17 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, HELIUM SHORTAGE IS A REAL PROBLEM
18:56:26 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: true.
18:57:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Fecking US government.
18:57:07 <tswett> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
18:57:07 <lambdabot> (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h))
18:57:22 <tswett> Of course.
18:57:29 <tswett> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
18:57:29 <lambdabot> (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h))
18:57:46 <tswett> @type flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
18:57:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god.
18:58:01 <lambdabot> thread killed
18:58:06 <Phantom_Hoover> XD
18:58:08 <tswett> @unpl flip
18:58:08 <lambdabot> (\ a b c -> a c b)
18:58:11 <tswett> @unpl flip flip
18:58:11 <lambdabot> (\ b c f -> c f b)
18:58:21 <elliott> flip^(3+n) === flip^n
18:58:22 <tswett> @unpl flip flip flip
18:58:22 <lambdabot> (\ c f -> c f (\ g h i -> g i h))
18:58:24 <elliott> trivial to see
18:58:47 <tswett> @unpl flip flip flip flip
18:58:47 <lambdabot> (\ f l -> f l (\ g h i -> g i h))
18:58:56 <tswett> It looks like flip flip flip = flip flip flip flip.
18:58:59 <elliott> flip flip flip flip === (flip flip) flip flip === flip flip flip
18:59:05 <elliott> flip^(3+n) === flip^n.
18:59:22 <elliott> flip flip flip X === (flip flip) flip X === flip X flip.
18:59:24 <elliott> if X == flip...
18:59:28 <tswett> Indeed.
18:59:48 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:00:02 <tswett> But flip^(3+n) === flip^n means that this thing has period 3. It doesn't; it has period 1 starting at 3.
19:00:11 <elliott> uH, NO.
19:00:13 <elliott> *Uh, no.
19:00:15 <elliott> That would be flip^3n.
19:00:28 <elliott> 4 == 3+1.
19:00:33 <elliott> Ergo flip^4 == flip^3.
19:00:48 <elliott> You may now commit seppuku.
19:00:53 <tswett> Let n = 1 in "flip^(3+n) === flip^n". Tell me what you get.
19:00:54 -!- Deewiant has joined.
19:01:17 <elliott> Err.
19:01:23 <elliott> Did I say === flip^n?
19:01:28 <elliott> I meant === flip^3, of course.
19:01:34 <tswett> Whew.
19:01:53 -!- Gregor has set topic: Please coperate with this channel's strict diaeresis mark requirements | I couldn't think of a more relevant word with a diaeresis ... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and
19:01:58 <elliott> tswett: Alternateively: NOPE IT'S RIGHT CLEARLY YOU'RE RETARDED
19:02:10 <tswett> You're right about one thing.
19:02:23 <tswett> At least one thing, I mean.
19:02:38 <tswett> Out of all the things you've ever said.
19:02:44 <elliott> optbot!
19:02:44 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | but you're only supposed to pass things in the char range or EOF as arguments to it.
19:02:49 <elliott> Gregor: Excuse me, optbot has returned.
19:02:49 <optbot> elliott: [1 % 2,1 % 8,0 % 1,(-1) % 192,0 % 1,1 % 2880,0 % 1,(-17) % 645120,0 % 1,31 % 14515200,0 % 1,(-691) % 3832012800,0 % 1,5461 % 5115781120,0 % 1,(-929569) % 64134053888,0 % 1,(-3202291) % 3593732096,0 % 1,221930581 % 16817061888,0 % 1,(-4722116521) % 2090860544,0 % 1,968383680827 % 12415139840,0 % 1,(-14717667114151) % 7415529472,0 % 1,2093660879252671 % 11005853696,0 % 1,86125672563201181 % 5637144576,0 % 1]
19:02:56 <elliott> Please follow Optbot Topic Policy, i.e. HE OWNZ UR SHIT
19:03:05 <elliott> (Note: POLICY NOT ACTUALLY A POLICY)
19:03:09 <elliott> optbot!
19:03:09 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | doesn't work..
19:03:11 <elliott> YES
19:03:13 <elliott> Best topic.
19:03:16 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: +t.
19:03:16 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -t.
19:03:21 <elliott> LAWL
19:03:25 <Gregor> :(
19:03:36 <Gregor> My @ gives me no real power :(
19:03:42 -!- Gregor has set topic: Please coperate with this channel's strict diaeresis mark requirements | I couldn't think of a more relevant word with a diaeresis ... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and
19:03:55 <tswett> Who opped Gregor?
19:04:15 <Gregor> I did.
19:04:17 <Gregor> With magic.
19:04:18 <Gregor> And ponies.
19:05:02 <oerjan> Gregor: ö käÿ
19:06:13 <elliott> you know oerjan, I'm fairly sure you can add ops to chanserv >:D
19:06:14 <elliott> like say
19:06:15 <elliott> me
19:06:17 <elliott> or
19:06:18 <elliott> me
19:06:31 <oerjan> yes, i'm pretty sure i can do that
19:07:12 <elliott> yeah.
19:07:14 <elliott> so you should do that now.
19:07:25 <oerjan> i'm not quite so sure of that.
19:07:37 <elliott> Gregor: op me
19:07:52 <Gregor> You could add the relevant access to, say, some long-lasting, relatively-mild-mannered user with a capitalized nick.
19:08:12 <oerjan> yes i could also do that.
19:08:18 <elliott> You shouldn't do that.
19:08:22 <elliott> You should give it to oklopol
19:08:24 <elliott> And lambdabot.
19:08:34 <pikhq_> You could also add the access to fungot, our most important member.
19:08:34 <fungot> pikhq_: that's not too difficult to implement than malloc.
19:08:37 <elliott> YES
19:08:39 <pikhq_> You see?
19:08:48 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, do you agree that rhenium is the best?
19:08:49 <elliott> oerjan: Wait, give it to Deewiant. or ais523. Nobody could ever possibly object to them ever.
19:08:58 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: For which purposes?
19:09:11 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, jewellery.
19:09:51 <Gregor> I object to Deewiant. He's a deewiant.
19:09:54 <Gregor> Err, deviant.
19:09:55 <Gregor> Whatever.
19:10:07 <Gregor> I think he might be Russian too.
19:10:16 <oerjan> no, that's lament.
19:10:27 <oerjan> you may notice lament is already an op.
19:10:38 <Gregor> I was making a bad joke w.r.t. v->w :P
19:10:44 <tswett> Gregor: I'm guessing it wouldn't be very hilarious if you opped me. How can I convince you that opping me is what you want?
19:10:45 <elliott> he's in Finland. same thing
19:11:04 <elliott> Ah, tswett approach to the AI Box problem: "Hey human, how can I convince you to let me out of the box?"
19:11:14 <oerjan> Gregor: i am not aware that russian uses overly much w's...
19:11:16 <elliott> "You can't." "Damn."
19:11:18 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Iridum. Covered in precious gemstones.
19:11:25 <elliott> pikhq_: Garish!
19:11:28 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, TOO MAINSTREAM
19:11:28 <pikhq_> (avoid the diamond; those suckers have no real value)
19:11:34 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote 334
19:11:36 <tswett> elliott: it's a good approach to some things that are not the AI Box problem.
19:11:42 <elliott> tswett: But not getting opped :P
19:11:51 <tswett> I don't know. Gregor hasn't spoken yet.
19:11:57 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
19:11:58 <tswett> Maybe he's planning to op me but hasn't gotten around to it.
19:12:15 <Phantom_Hoover> HackEgo, Y U NO WORK
19:13:55 <elliott> WHY IS THIS SUCH A LAME.
19:14:10 <elliott> Stupid no-good nasm.
19:14:43 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, the ultra-relevant quote in question is <HackEgo> 334) <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god. <Phantom_Hoover> I've become a metallurgy hipster. <Phantom_Hoover> Iridium is way too mainstream.
19:15:09 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BitZ fml
19:15:12 <tswett> For a non-mainstream metal, I suggest...
19:15:19 <oerjan> I was into iridium before the stars started producing it.
19:15:57 <pikhq_> I was into hydrogen before atoms.
19:16:07 <tswett> ...Rutherfordium.
19:16:22 <HackEgo> No output.
19:16:30 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, radioactives need not apply.
19:17:14 <elliott> HELIUM
19:17:14 <tswett> Okay. Lemme see.
19:17:21 <tswett> Osmium... that's definitely way too mainstream.
19:17:24 <elliott> ...
19:17:28 <elliott> But Osmium was Phantom_Hoover's favourite!
19:17:37 <elliott> Unfortunately, Douchebag Osmium:
19:17:41 <elliott> LOOKS INCREDIBLY PRETTY
19:17:42 <elliott>
19:17:54 <tswett> Samarium.
19:18:07 <pikhq_> How's about some californium?
19:18:09 <elliott> That's multiple letters away from semen!
19:18:15 <elliott> (Californium obviously)
19:18:19 <tswett> If you want a non-mainstream metal, go with samarium.
19:18:28 <elliott> Go with [insert metal band here]
19:18:50 * pikhq_ can't name any non-mainstream metal bands, so.
19:19:02 <elliott> pikhq_: NIRVANA
19:19:04 * elliott swats himself
19:19:11 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, rhenium was last to be discovered!
19:19:13 <pikhq_> I mean, sure I could *say*, say, Black Sabbath, but that's pretty mainstream.
19:19:17 <tswett> Nope. Samarium.
19:19:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Can't get more mainstream than that.
19:19:21 * pikhq_ swats elliott
19:19:24 <Phantom_Hoover> *non-mainstream
19:19:43 <tswett> optbot: samarium!
19:19:43 <optbot> tswett: for some the length mod 3 might be important ;)
19:19:45 <elliott> optbot: Talk to tswett. He's lonely.
19:19:45 <optbot> elliott: Universe hates you?
19:19:46 <elliott> ...wow.
19:19:49 <elliott> Nice timing.
19:19:49 <pikhq_> Alt rock ≠ metal, you jerk. :P
19:20:04 <elliott> pikhq_: And Nirvana =/=/==/=/=/ alt rock!
19:20:06 <elliott> CIRCLE OF LIFE
19:20:31 <tswett> optbot: say something coincidentally relevant to the situation, so I can feel awesome!
19:20:31 <optbot> tswett: Seems to work.
19:20:41 <elliott> It works to make you feel awesome.
19:20:48 <elliott> Anyway, it's not coincidence, it's strong AI.
19:21:08 <pikhq_> elliott: You crazy Brits.
19:21:11 <tswett> I think a quote from the movie Rango is appropriate here.
19:21:15 <tswett> "Damn." --Rattlesnake Jake, "Rango"
19:21:35 <elliott> I think a quote from the movie [insert movie here] is appropriate here.
19:21:43 <elliott> "Yes." --[character], "[movie]"
19:21:59 <tswett> Hey, that's also a Rango quote.
19:22:05 <elliott> OMG!
19:22:09 <tswett> "Yes." --Rango, "Rango"
19:22:10 <elliott> Here's another.
19:22:11 <elliott> "the"
19:22:27 <tswett> I think Rango also said that.
19:22:41 <tswett> Though he might have said "them" instead.
19:22:48 <elliott> Maybe he didn't and you just didn't notice.
19:22:51 <elliott> (As part of a line, of course.)
19:22:53 <tswett> Oh, he did say "the" in some other instance.
19:23:09 <elliott> Despite saying "Yes".
19:23:11 <elliott> ...
19:23:13 <tswett> He said, "I'm the law." Or maybe, "I am the law."
19:23:13 <elliott> Letter "e".
19:23:18 <Gregor> Ellipses also help.
19:23:25 <tswett> They help what?
19:23:35 <Gregor> "I [...] love [...] s [...] e [...] x [...] with [...] men." -- Rango, "Rango"
19:23:53 <tswett> I don't know if he said "love" or any word containing "x".
19:24:07 <tswett> He probably said "with", but I don't know about "men".
19:24:18 <pikhq_> "[...] lay with men as you would lay with woman [...]" — God.
19:24:19 <Gregor> Note: I haven't watched the movie, and don't intend to :P
19:24:24 <Gregor> pikhq_: Perfect :P
19:25:02 <elliott> "Stone [...] women." --God
19:25:05 <elliott> *women[...].
19:25:21 <tswett> Oh, he definitely said "with". The phrase "with just one bullet" was said many times by multiple characters.
19:25:38 <pikhq_> elliott: I'm pretty sure you can just go with "Stone women [...]".
19:25:45 <coppro> 1/win 2
19:25:51 <elliott> "[...]get [...] stone[...]d." --God
19:26:02 <pikhq_> As you are suppose to stone women who exhibit infidelity.
19:26:18 <elliott> Yah, but is it in that order i nthe Bible :P
19:26:29 <pikhq_> In at least one translation.
19:26:44 <tswett> In the Bible, it's more like "[...] nmw ntS".
19:26:52 <tswett> Except the words are Hebrew.
19:26:58 <elliott> *in the
19:27:07 <elliott> tswett: What did this channel ever do without your stunning intellect? :-P
19:27:10 <pikhq_> tswett: Thy win is evident.
19:27:23 <tswett> elliott: you'd probably all be dead.
19:27:25 <elliott> Note: "nmw ntS" is a common Welsh idiom.
19:27:31 <elliott> It means "I".
19:27:36 <tswett> Actually, no. You'd probably all be alive if it weren't for me.
19:27:37 <elliott> *is also
19:27:46 <elliott> tswett: Darn, I hate being dead.
19:27:48 <tswett> Don't be ridiculous. "ntS" doesn't have any vowels.
19:27:49 <elliott> Which I'm not.
19:28:01 <elliott> Um, the joke is that Welsh has no vowels :P
19:28:07 <elliott> I expect you realise this.
19:28:18 <pikhq_> Sadly, it actually does.
19:28:23 <pikhq_> Vowels such as "w" and "y".
19:28:33 <tswett> My joke is that I'm recognizing your joke and choosing to ignore it.
19:28:53 <tswett> You can tell that I got the joke by the fact that I picked "ntS", which indeed has no vowels, rather than "nmw", which does have a vowel. :P
19:29:05 <elliott> Let's stone tswett.
19:29:53 <oerjan> <elliott> Note: "nmw ntS" is a common Welsh idiom. <-- WHY ISN'T NDRYLLIOG HERE TO CONFIRM...
19:30:00 <tswett> You cannot effectively stone me! I am this big!
19:30:02 <Phantom_Hoover> He's French.
19:30:03 <elliott> YES, BECAUSE HE'S WELSH
19:30:08 * tswett holds up his hands, a certain distance apart.
19:30:10 <elliott> tswett: We have SO MUCH CANNABIS.
19:30:18 <Phantom_Hoover> (Bloody French, never came through for us.)
19:30:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Smelly. Unwashed.
19:30:29 <elliott> Rude.
19:30:30 <oerjan> tswett: by that do you mean you're too small for us to hit you, or to big for the stones to have any effect?
19:30:32 <elliott> Wine-drinking artfags!
19:30:36 <oerjan> *too
19:30:39 <tswett> oerjan: the latter.
19:30:44 <oerjan> ah.
19:30:50 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yeah, but they hate the English too so I need to like them to count as Scottish.
19:30:53 * oerjan casually picks up a nearby mountain.
19:30:56 <pikhq_> At least the Normans had the common decency to *invade*, rather than just be wine-drinking artfags mocking us! :P
19:31:19 <tswett> oerjan: just a casual question: where are you, relative to the mountain, as you're holding it?
19:31:24 <elliott> pikhq_: Please refrain from usage of "us", Americunt.
19:31:27 <elliott> WE DISOWNED YOU
19:31:35 <pikhq_> elliott: I'm of British descent, now shaddup.
19:31:41 <elliott> pikhq_: SO'S EVERY FUCKING AMERICAN X-D
19:31:51 <pikhq_> elliott: Not really.
19:31:53 <elliott> GREGOR is of British descent.
19:31:55 <pikhq_> elliott: German is the most common ancestry.
19:31:56 * pumpkin was born in england
19:31:58 <elliott> Yet shows no signs of ``humour''.
19:32:00 * pumpkin is awesome
19:32:11 <pikhq_> By far.
19:32:11 <elliott> (He unfortunately shows irritating symptoms of ``humor'' on a regular basis.)
19:32:15 <tswett> I have no idea what sort of descent I'm of. It must be mostly European, since I seem to be white.
19:32:23 <elliott> no clearly it's african.
19:32:27 <elliott> per logic.
19:32:40 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, WHAT KIND OF BRITISH DESCENT
19:32:40 <pikhq_> tswett: Definitely South African.
19:32:45 <Phantom_Hoover> THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
19:32:46 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> (Bloody French, never came through for us.) <-- i vaguely recall reading recently they _did_ try to help some scottish faction against the english at one time...
19:32:53 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: England.
19:32:54 <tswett> There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation.
19:33:05 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, there's something called the "Auld Alliance" but I never actually found out what it entailed.
19:33:09 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Worcestershire, to be specific.
19:33:18 <elliott> pikhq_ makes sauce.
19:33:35 <elliott> `addquote <tswett> There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation.
19:33:38 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Worcester, to be even more specific.
19:33:40 <HackEgo> 335) <tswett> There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation.
19:33:42 <elliott> What is it with crazy people and being quotable.
19:33:55 <tswett> pikhq_: your ancestors are from Worcester? That would explain a lot.
19:34:00 <elliott> A LOT
19:34:02 <oerjan> <tswett> oerjan: just a casual question: where are you, relative to the mountain, as you're holding it? <-- as i'm using the famed munchhausen method, i am above it.
19:34:08 <Phantom_Hoover> But there were all kinds of weird olde-European alliancy things, like Queen Mary marrying the dauphin.
19:34:09 <tswett> Ah.
19:34:09 <pikhq_> tswett: Yes, hence the last name of "Worcester".
19:34:32 * tswett climbs on top of the mountain and shoots oerjan.
19:35:00 <elliott> Gregor: -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 0 2011-01-13 23:45 11.02.29
19:35:04 <elliott> Gregor: hg fail
19:35:05 <tswett> Gee, I sure hope there are no hawks up here. That would make me really regret this piece of gratuitous exposition.
19:36:14 <oerjan> <elliott> What is it with crazy people and being quotable. <-- now is _that_ correlation or causation?
19:36:34 <elliott> oerjan: it's tswettation.
19:36:37 <elliott> a cross between neithe
19:36:39 <elliott> *neither
19:37:03 <oerjan> tswett: hawks?
19:37:27 <tswett> oerjan: yes, hawks. They're the only thing mentioned in the movie that I'm afraid of.
19:37:38 <oerjan> which movie.
19:37:41 <tswett> Rango.
19:37:45 <oerjan> ah.
19:37:53 <elliott> oerjan: hmm for arrow purposes (a,b) behaves like (\x -> if x then b else a), right?
19:37:55 <tswett> Why did they mention my fears in that movie? I'm not a movie character.
19:37:56 <elliott> as in, isomorphihic.
19:37:58 <elliott> oh wait.
19:37:59 <elliott> that isn't right.
19:38:06 <elliott> can't have polymorphic return.
19:38:13 <elliott> Bool -> Either a b, then. except that's not right either.
19:38:28 <elliott> (a,b) acts like how you do tuples in LC, then :-P
19:38:28 <oerjan> tswett: in fact you were lucky, when you shot me i briefly lost my grip and the mountain fell and crushed some hawks.
19:38:36 <oerjan> also a small city, but never mind.
19:38:48 <tswett> Oh, neat.
19:39:05 <oerjan> elliott: wat
19:39:22 <elliott> oerjan: (a,b) acts like (\x. x a b) in the LC for Arrow instance purposes, right?
19:39:37 <elliott> just say yes.
19:39:47 <elliott> tswett: http://goo.gl/IYgRQ
19:40:10 * tswett shoots at his computer screen.
19:40:18 <tswett> Damn, you fooled me.
19:40:33 <oerjan> elliott: oh you want a (,) instance? i don't think you can do that as both type arguments are covariant...
19:40:47 <elliott> oerjan: err ((,) t) is an arrow.
19:40:48 <elliott> no?
19:40:51 <elliott> :t (***)
19:40:52 <lambdabot> forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c b' c'. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a b' c' -> a (b, b') (c, c')
19:40:59 <elliott> :t (&&&)
19:41:00 <lambdabot> forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c c'. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c, c')
19:41:02 <oerjan> elliott: arrows take _two_ type arguments
19:41:08 <elliott> oerjan: err right
19:41:09 <elliott> (,) is an arrow.
19:41:10 <elliott> > (1,2) (&&&) (3,4)
19:41:10 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t2 -> t'
19:41:10 <lambdabot> against inferred type ...
19:41:12 <elliott> huh.
19:41:16 <elliott> i swore it was :)
19:41:22 <elliott> @src Arrow
19:41:22 <lambdabot> class Arrow a where
19:41:22 <lambdabot> arr, pure :: (b -> c) -> a b c
19:41:22 <lambdabot> (>>>) :: a b c -> a c d -> a b d
19:41:29 <oerjan> elliott: how in the world would you implement arr
19:41:31 <elliott> well, right, you can't do arr and pure :D
19:41:34 <elliott> *arr/pure
19:41:39 <elliott> oerjan: i just kinda assumed ;(
19:41:49 <elliott> because of all the *** and &&&s involving tuples :D
19:41:52 <oerjan> elliott: it's essentially a monad, Writer
19:42:01 <oerjan> (assuming t Monoid)
19:42:12 <elliott> oerjan: arr f = (x, f x) where x = undefined
19:42:14 <elliott> TADA
19:42:15 <pikhq_> We need to convince Kevin Bacon to do a movie with a bunch of mathematicians as extras.
19:42:26 * pikhq_ wants someone to have an Erdős-Bacon number of 2!
19:42:30 <elliott> pikhq_: A film about Paul Erd\Hos, too.
19:42:33 <elliott> Using stock footage.
19:42:45 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, you aren't a mathematician!
19:42:50 <oerjan> elliott: the tuples are in _addition_ to the arrow type. also i'm pretty sure you're supposed to have arr id >>> x = x and such things
19:42:53 <elliott> * pikhq_ wants someone to have an Erdős-Bacon number of 2!
19:42:56 <elliott> someone
19:43:18 <elliott> oerjan: WELL OK MR SMARTY FANCY PANTS
19:43:18 <pikhq_> elliott: Actually, because of *just that* happening, Erdős has an Erdős-Bacon number of 3.
19:43:27 <elliott> pikhq_: I know.
19:43:30 <elliott> pikhq_: I'm trying to COMBINE the concepts.
19:43:45 <elliott> omg, Er\Hdos and Bacon can have an Er\Hdos-Bacon number of 1.
19:43:47 <pikhq_> If only Kevin Bacon were in it.
19:43:55 <elliott> just make a KEvin Bacon film with stock footage of Erd\Hos.
19:43:57 <elliott> (it's \H right?)
19:43:59 <elliott> *Kevin
19:44:04 <tswett> Is it Er\Hdos or Erd\Hos?
19:44:12 <pikhq_> It's Erdős.
19:44:16 <oerjan> <tswett> Why did they mention my fears in that movie? I'm not a movie character. <-- synchronicity, duh
19:44:16 <pikhq_> elliott, COMPOSE
19:44:23 <pikhq_> Actually, can't get Kevin Bacon to have a Bacon number of 1; Erdős is dead.
19:44:30 <elliott> tswett: Err, latter :P
19:44:37 <elliott> pikhq_: ...
19:44:37 <tswett> Is it Erdös or Erdõs? :P
19:44:41 <elliott> Erd\Hos.
19:44:45 <elliott> number.
19:44:46 <elliott> that is.
19:44:48 <elliott> not a Bacon number.
19:45:00 <elliott> pikhq_: Anyway, appearing in a film with stock footage of Erd\Hos has been counted for your Erd\Hos number.
19:45:03 <pikhq_> tswett: It's Erdős, not Erdös. Erdős was Hungarian.
19:45:07 <elliott> So Bacon could easily get an Erd\Hos number of 1.
19:45:13 <elliott> And Erd\Hos a Bacon number of 1.
19:45:18 <elliott> Giving them both an Erd\Hos-Bacon number of 1.
19:46:15 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, but the Erd\Hos number is for papers, not films.
19:46:30 <elliott> It's for collaborations.
19:46:36 <elliott> Playing ping-pong with him should count!
19:46:44 <elliott> Or maybe only if you're doing it doubles, and he's on your side.
19:46:49 <oerjan> <elliott> omg, Er\Hdos and Bacon can have an Er\Hdos-Bacon number of 1. <-- i think you're missing the "joint paper" part...
19:47:05 <elliott> oerjan: the "films count" was used by someone fairly prominent or at least interesting. iirc.
19:47:34 <augur> oklopol: hey
19:47:36 <augur> you can uh..
19:47:40 <augur> come twice
19:47:41 <augur> if you'd like
19:47:59 <oerjan> elliott: someone desperate to get low erdős-bacon numbers, obviously
19:48:01 <elliott> "It seems that older historic figures such as Leonhard Euler (born 1707) do not have finite Erdős numbers." --Wikipedia
19:48:04 <elliott> augur: HOW FUNNY I MADE THAT JOKE TOO
19:48:11 <elliott> oerjan: it wasn't very low even counting that :D
19:48:21 <elliott> oerjan: it was tongue in cheek, but then so are Erd\Hos numbers.
19:48:22 <augur> elliott: yes that may be
19:48:35 <augur> elliott: but you werent suggesting he actually cum on your face or other body parts
19:48:38 <augur> or in them
19:48:39 <augur> soooo..
19:48:45 <elliott> augur: i said women though, so probably you automatically ignored the line
19:48:46 <elliott> HAHA
19:48:47 <elliott> moving on
19:48:54 <oerjan> <pikhq_> tswett: It's Erdős, not Erdös. Erdős was Hungarian. <-- mind you hungarian does have ö as well, long vs. short vowel.
19:49:33 <pikhq_> oerjan: Huh.
19:49:50 <pikhq_> Still, it explains ő being valid.
19:49:56 <oerjan> yeah.
19:50:14 <elliott> 19:43:32 <thematrixeatsyou> one thing that you wouldn't know: i have made two esoteric programming languages and i'm actually 15.
19:50:15 <elliott> WOW
19:50:20 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:50:30 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I've seen that name before.
19:50:33 <oerjan> basically hungarian puts ´ on any vowel to make it long, if there are dots already they get replaced with ´'s.
19:50:35 <elliott> = GreaseMonkey
19:50:38 <elliott> hi ais523
19:51:23 <oerjan> applies to i, ö, ü
20:00:48 -!- copumpkin has joined.
20:00:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host).
20:00:48 -!- copumpkin has joined.
20:01:09 <ais523> hi elliott
20:02:00 <ais523> !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD
20:03:14 <elliott> somehow I've got myself into a veritable OS dev rut.
20:03:25 <elliott> (anywhere I can't printf debug counts as a rut)
20:03:26 <cheater00> i heard the ipad2 waiting line is real tough today
20:03:52 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
20:04:12 <elliott> !c printf("%x\n", '/');
20:04:27 <elliott> ais523: grr
20:04:27 <ais523> oerjan: Hungarian also seems to use the letter y as an accent (after the letter, rather than on top of it which would be bizarre)
20:04:31 <elliott> you made egobot go the slow!
20:04:35 <elliott> :D y on top of the letter
20:04:37 <ais523> it hasn't even started processing slowpoke yet
20:04:45 <ais523> also, slowpoke, despite its name, runs pretty quickly
20:04:47 <elliott> okind of like e or u on top of the letter instead of diaeresis
20:04:48 <ais523> much faster than waterfall3
20:04:49 <elliott> i forget which it was
20:04:50 <elliott> I think u
20:04:52 <elliott> (historically)
20:04:52 <oerjan> ais523: that's for consonants, it uses lots of combined letters
20:04:54 <elliott> *kind
20:05:07 <ais523> oerjan: ly, gy, ny, sz
20:05:10 <oerjan> gy and ty, but also sz, cs ...
20:05:22 <ais523> ty? are you sure?
20:05:28 <ais523> I don't remember seeing any of those when I actually went to Hungary
20:05:47 <oerjan> hm maybe i'm misremembering
20:05:49 <elliott> THE KEY TO BECOMING AN EXPERT
20:06:11 <elliott> "The difference between <PERMABLINK> and <BLINK> is that there is no </PERMABLINK>.
20:06:11 <elliott> Ever.
20:06:11 <elliott> Using <PERMABLINK> causes all Web sites people see after yours to blink. Forever."
20:07:06 <oerjan> confusingly sz is what most other countries would consider s, while s is similar to english sh.
20:07:25 <ais523> elliott: is that a zzo38 quote?
20:07:30 <ais523> oerjan: indeed
20:07:32 <oerjan> (remember that when pronouncing erdős)
20:07:36 <elliott> ais523: err, no, that would be a terrible zzo38 quote
20:07:39 <elliott> it's ``humour''
20:07:46 <ais523> for English loanwords, they actually transliterate s into sz
20:07:52 <ais523> so you see shops marked "szupermarket"
20:08:47 <elliott> szuzpzezrzmzazrzkzeztz
20:08:53 <oerjan> oh and zs
20:09:04 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:09:18 <Deewiant> ais523: Well done
20:09:21 -!- EgoBot has joined.
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20:09:34 <ais523> oh come on
20:09:43 <ais523> it was halfway through running my relatively simple program, too
20:09:48 <ais523> !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD
20:09:49 <cheater00> ais523: yeah, it's funny to hear people try to pronounce Riesz theorem
20:09:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
20:10:01 <elliott> it crashed EgoBot, i can be as sarcastic as i like now
20:11:08 <ais523> elliott: is its debug output as pretty as juiced?
20:11:11 <ais523> *juiced's?
20:11:13 <oerjan> <elliott> it's ``humour'' <-- zzo38 sometimes says things which one might detect as humor. not necessarily what most people would consider humor, but humor nonetheless. and i think i've chuckled at some time.
20:11:22 <elliott> ais523: the most prettiest. well it could be.
20:11:27 <elliott> oerjan: yes but it's unintentional :)
20:11:32 <Gregor> <elliott> Gregor: -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 0 2011-01-13 23:45 11.02.29 <elliott> Gregor: hg fail // hg fail how?
20:11:37 <elliott> and wouldn't be punctuated in such a way as to draw attention to the humour
20:11:38 <ais523> also, I don't see why we don't post all these BF Joust interps rather than posting them somewhere
20:11:39 <elliott> which the above does
20:11:42 <elliott> Gregor: your hg repo fail
20:11:47 <elliott> it created an empty 11.02.29 file
20:11:48 <elliott> or did clog :)
20:11:49 <Gregor> elliott: That's more like it :P
20:11:50 <oerjan> elliott: no i mean he says things that are obviously _meant_ to be humor.
20:11:55 <elliott> ais523: <ais523> also, I don't see why we don't post all these BF Joust interps rather than posting them somewhere
20:11:56 <elliott> wait what
20:11:56 <Gregor> Probably my repo.
20:12:05 <ais523> umm, rather than keeping them secret
20:12:09 <oerjan> it's rare, but i'm sure i've seen it.
20:12:14 <elliott> oerjan: I have a strong feeling those are just bit-for-bit copies, or at least minor mutations
20:12:20 <ais523> people who want to try to run BF Joust programs locally atm have no option but to write their own interp
20:12:24 <elliott> (of other ...humour)
20:12:33 <elliott> ais523: err, chainlance is open source
20:12:35 <elliott> well
20:12:37 <elliott> i dunno if it has an actual license
20:12:47 <ais523> I mean, I don't have a copy, nor any links to it
20:12:51 <elliott> unfortunately it sucks
20:12:55 <elliott> ais523: that's your problem?
20:12:57 <elliott> you didn't exactly ask
20:12:59 <elliott> or logread
20:13:01 <ais523> I did ask
20:13:05 <elliott> well, nobody heard
20:13:09 <ais523> could be
20:13:11 <elliott> http://git.zem.fi/chainlance -- but it's so buggy, why would you :)
20:13:18 <ais523> for SCIENCE!
20:13:37 <elliott> Perhaps I'll write a LANCELANCE, that compiles them to ANSI PORTABLE C.
20:13:52 <ais523> elliott: that's an HTML page
20:13:58 <oerjan> <cheater00> ais523: yeah, it's funny to hear people try to pronounce Riesz theorem <-- the trap here is you need to know whether the name is hungarian or polish, because polish uses s/sz in the exact opposite way
20:14:00 <ais523> I just tried to wget it...
20:14:22 * oerjan didn't actually know riesz was hungarian
20:14:26 <elliott> ais523: I'm not your personal web browser; you get to find the appropriate download link yourself.
20:14:32 <ais523> fair enough
20:14:40 <ais523> it's just that the link was misleading
20:14:49 <elliott> gitweb is hardly uncommon.
20:14:56 <elliott> In this case it seems that there's no convenient tarball link.
20:15:00 <ais523> there is
20:15:01 <elliott> I suspect git://git.zem.fi/chainlance may be right.
20:15:03 <ais523> under "snapshot"
20:15:10 <elliott> Oh, indeed.
20:15:22 <elliott> But having a checkout of the git repository is more useful, as you can get new bugs fizzie introduces more conveniently.
20:15:23 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_slowpoke: 78.0
20:15:23 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_slowpoke: 78.0
20:15:34 <elliott> yikes
20:15:47 <ais523> 22 | + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + | 78.0 | 36.4 | 22 | ais523_slowpoke.bfjoust
20:15:50 <ais523> wow that's a good score
20:15:51 <elliott> Gregor: YOU'RE NOT AT THE TOP, BAN AIS523
20:15:52 <Deewiant> Heh, it does better against allegro than any of my others
20:16:09 <Gregor> Holy hell
20:16:12 <elliott> !bfjoust elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1 <
20:16:16 <EgoBot> Score for elliott_elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1: 0.0
20:16:19 <Deewiant> ais523: Well, waterfall3 had the same wins, just less score :-P
20:16:24 <ais523> indeed
20:16:26 <Deewiant> The all-+ row isn't new
20:16:29 <elliott> It'll get like 60 points just from beating it.
20:16:30 <Gregor> 89? We're romped.
20:16:39 <elliott> Gregor: Uhh, 78.
20:16:52 <ais523> 78 is still rather insane, given that allegro has 55
20:17:05 <ais523> btw, FFSPG /almost/ beats it
20:17:10 <elliott> ais523: prepare for death by egojsout!!!!!
20:17:12 <ais523> it generally loses by around 20 clock cycles
20:18:08 <elliott> Gregor: [>] is bugged in egojsout
20:18:13 <elliott> oh, wait, no
20:18:45 <ais523> elliott: I doubt it, triplock3 uses and runs correctly there
20:18:48 <ais523> *uses it
20:18:57 <ais523> and waterfall3 embeds many copies of triplock3, and runs them sometimes
20:19:18 <elliott> hmm, how can one generate [>], >[>], >>[>], etc. with ()%?
20:19:23 <Gregor> It figures my computer would go bonkers right after I tpyo 78 as 89 X_X
20:19:26 <elliott> hmm, actually that's wrong
20:19:28 <ais523> you can't, I don't think
20:20:15 * oerjan is wondering if the ie in riesz should actually be pronounced as two vowels or not
20:20:38 <oerjan> it could be germanized, so just one
20:21:23 <cheater00> oerjan: yeah
20:21:34 <oerjan> "He had an uncommon method of giving lectures: he entered the lecture hall with an assistant and a docent. The docent then began reading the proper passages from Riesz's handbook and the assistant inscribed the appropriate equations on the blackboard—while Riesz himself stood aside, nodding occasionally."
20:21:39 <cheater00> oerjan: Riesz is not a polish name tho :p
20:21:56 <cheater00> btw
20:22:04 <cheater00> does this show up unstyled for y'all? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesz-Fischer_theorem
20:22:11 <oerjan> cheater00: yeah it looks like it could be either german or hungarian to me
20:22:23 <cheater00> german never has sz
20:22:30 <cheater00> it would be Rieß
20:22:43 <oerjan> cheater00: looks fine to me
20:22:53 <cheater00> trust the guy living in germany
20:23:04 <oerjan> cheater00: i think sz is archaic german spelling, so might still hang on in names?
20:23:09 <cheater00> nope
20:23:32 <cheater00> if it's in a name then it's a foreign name.
20:23:44 <cheater00> germans are very strict about their spelling
20:23:52 <cheater00> even names get strict spelling updates
20:24:08 <cheater00> so what about that link oerjan :p
20:25:10 <elliott> hmm
20:25:16 <elliott> ais523: can you get [-[--[---[---[---?
20:25:21 <elliott> with [-] in the middle
20:25:47 <elliott> never mind
20:26:01 <elliott> ais523: gah, antislowpoke is hard; anti space_elevator was easy :)
20:26:12 <oerjan> cheater00: i said it was just fine. i think styles are separate files so might fail to load separately, try reloading.
20:26:24 <cheater00> ah, weird
20:26:37 <oerjan> has happened to me before
20:26:38 <cheater00> sorry, i thought you said Riesz looks fine to you
20:26:55 <cheater00> yeah the wird thing is that the style for all other pages in wikipedia works
20:26:57 <cheater00> but for this one, no
20:27:00 <oerjan> cheater00: well that is also true
20:27:15 <cheater00> and i have reloaded
20:27:17 <cheater00> multiple times
20:27:25 <oerjan> cheater00: shift-reload?
20:27:51 <cheater00> o no, shift worked
20:27:58 <cheater00> yea, stupid firefox
20:28:50 <elliott> ais523: well i can draw with slowpoke some of the time :D
20:29:06 <elliott> < < < < < = = = = = < = = = = < = = = = =
20:29:06 <elliott> < < < < < > > > < < < < < < < < < < < < <
20:29:13 <oerjan> <elliott> hmm, how can one generate [>], >[>], >>[>], etc. with ()%? <-- all uses of ()% expand to ()*...()* if you ignore [] matching
20:29:31 <elliott> oerjan: right
20:29:36 <elliott> i meant with nesting and stuff
20:29:43 <fizzie> "<elliott> unfortunately it sucks" "<elliott> http://git.zem.fi/chainlance -- but it's so buggy [..]" "<elliott> [...] you can get new bugs fizzie introduces more conveniently." ← are you trying to participate in some sort of "bitterest man on earth" competition here?
20:30:15 <elliott> fizzie: YES
20:30:20 <elliott> fizzie: You crashed EgoBot, you deserve it :-)
20:31:10 <oerjan> <cheater00> germans are very strict about their spelling <-- ok germans, but hungarians etc. might still use archaic spellings for names that are originally german. on the other hand as ais523 said hungarians do replace s by sz in loanwords so it might be that too.
20:31:21 <cheater00> yea
20:31:44 <elliott> wonder if I can ignore only _quotes_... although replies would be good too and i already wrote that :)
20:31:48 -!- cpressey has joined.
20:31:54 <elliott> cpressey: REPORT
20:31:55 <cheater00> but then germans replace S with Z in their pronounciation
20:32:13 <oerjan> <elliott> i meant with nesting and stuff <-- i meant i don't see how to do it with plain ()* either.
20:32:20 <elliott> oerjan: right
20:32:24 <cpressey> i'm surrounded by... jythonistas.
20:32:35 <cpressey> or, at least, people attending a talk about jython
20:32:36 <elliott> oerjan: it needs to be like... ((>)*n[>])*(n=100) :-D
20:32:48 <cpressey> there seems to be less -ista here
20:33:03 <elliott> cpressey: those are javadroids :D
20:33:40 <oerjan> <cheater00> o no, shift worked <-- i believe shift causes it to ignore already cached content in case there's something wrong with it, while without shift doesn't if the page's modified date hasn't changed.
20:33:45 <cpressey> the intersection between the two sets seems rather small
20:35:20 <cpressey> there is like no one here. i was going to attend "extreme network programming in python" but it was really crowded and i forgot that i don't really care about low-level network protocols
20:36:38 <oerjan> and i'm not entirely sure, but without shift might also be less clever about following included content. (this is all just my impression.)
20:38:17 <ais523> <elliott> ais523: well i can draw with slowpoke some of the time :D <-- haha
20:38:27 <elliott> ais523: btw, optbot is back
20:38:27 <optbot> elliott: i'll try think more about it now
20:38:49 * oerjan thinks that was a zzo38 comment
20:39:15 <ais523> I'm guessing oklopol
20:39:31 <oerjan> hm could be
20:39:33 <elliott> it's not zzo38
20:39:34 <elliott> "i"
20:39:46 <elliott> oklopol seems plausible, but it could also be any non-native speaker
20:39:57 <elliott> 05.06.07:14:09:02 <Keymaker> i'll try think more about it now
20:40:00 <elliott> like Keymaker.
20:40:04 <cpressey> oklopol often seems quite implausible to me
20:40:22 <oerjan> cpressey: HE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST
20:40:29 <oerjan> it's all a bug in reality
20:40:32 <ais523> oh, how come I didn't notice cpressey was here earlier despite him having made lots of comments already?
20:40:48 <elliott> cpressey: do an impromptu talk on esolangs; start it with announcing that you are "THE... yes, THE ... Chris Pressey".
20:40:51 <cpressey> PlauseError: HE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST
20:40:53 <elliott> ais523: he's at PyCon, dying
20:41:14 <elliott> cpressey: when nobody applauses, throw something angrily and stomp off
20:41:16 <elliott> *applauds,
20:41:28 <cpressey> elliott: ...
20:41:35 <elliott> cpressey: come on, that's the best idea ever.
20:41:55 <cpressey> no, not being here is the best idea ever
20:42:01 <oerjan> elliott: an applausible idea
20:42:04 <elliott> cpressey: second-best, then.
20:42:30 <oerjan> cpressey: but it's the perfect setup for not being there afterward
20:42:40 <cpressey> i could post a card on the board for an "Esolang BoF" and watch no one else show up
20:43:04 <elliott> Bachelor of Furnaces?
20:43:11 <elliott> Buddy of Fucking?
20:43:17 <elliott> Bastion of Ferventry?
20:43:39 <Gregor> Bestiality-only Family
20:43:40 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_a_Feather_(computing) lame
20:43:51 <elliott> Bankers of Franchises
20:44:04 <elliott> Backwards-ogling Fat-ass
20:44:25 <Gregor> Gonna stick with Bestiality-only Family
20:44:32 <cpressey> it's aaaaaaaall lame
20:44:37 <oerjan> hm is feather slightly named after twoducks?
20:44:49 <elliott> i hope so but doubt it
20:45:09 <cpressey> PiFeathersPerDuck
20:45:15 <elliott> cpressey: ok, here's a less coherent idea: yell "ATTENTION EVERYBODY, THIS IS NOW AN UNCONFERENCE! That means you have to dance!", and start dancing
20:45:18 <elliott> punch everyone who does not dance
20:45:31 <elliott> now to increase my toxication levels to get something even better
20:45:50 <oerjan> ais523: ^
20:46:02 <ais523> oerjan: no, it isn't
20:46:04 <elliott> yeah ais523 better admire my amazing lingotalk.
20:46:06 <ais523> altohugh it might as well be
20:46:52 <oerjan> there's this fairy tale about the feather that turned into five hens
20:47:04 <elliott> 17:01:19 <GregorR> If you solve the game and make it so that the AI literally cannot lose, it's different. If you win, you suck, if you lose, you're brilliant.
20:47:04 <elliott> or if you win, you're *really* brilliant
20:48:09 <oerjan> http://hca.gilead.org.il/no_doubt.html
20:48:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Back
20:48:56 <elliott> oerjan: how big is your personal library?
20:49:13 <Phantom_Hoover> It has all the books.
20:49:29 <oerjan> elliott: it contains google
20:49:41 <elliott> oerjan: THE BIGGEST LIBRARY
20:50:01 <oerjan> although i probably have the andersen fairy tales stored away somewhere physically too
20:50:03 <elliott> I wonder if there are more pages on Google than there are pages on the internet (discounting infinite page generators, other search engines)
20:50:10 <elliott> and not counting 0-result googles
20:50:21 <elliott> but counting every string that return something
20:50:21 <oerjan> *paperally
20:50:28 <elliott> (and _not_ assuming that google has crawled every single page)
20:50:50 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, almost certainly.
20:51:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: well right, because you have at least the number of words in the page that return that page
20:51:18 <elliott> so it blows up quite quickly :)
20:51:29 <cpressey> also, google indexes its own results pages
20:51:33 <elliott> The Googles: bigger than the internets.
20:51:37 <elliott> cpressey: well, not counting that. but does it really?
20:52:01 <elliott> "Error 404 (Not Found)!!1" --title of Google's (new) 404 page
20:52:20 <Gregor> slowpoke's behavior looks stunningly similar to FFSPG :P
20:52:40 <elliott> as ais523 said, FFSPG almost wins
20:52:47 <elliott> well, is almost equal
20:52:53 <elliott> loses by about 20 cycles IIRC
20:52:53 <cpressey> elliott: no. i am lying freely
20:52:57 <Gregor> Yeah, FFSPG is really close.
20:53:09 <elliott> Gregor: Fix it, even if it makes it slightly worse on other programs, you'll get a shitload of points for it :P
20:53:13 <oerjan> elliott: NEEDS MOAR ELEVEN
20:53:17 <Gregor> elliott: 'struth.
20:53:23 <Gregor> WEEKEND TIME
20:53:32 <elliott> Gregor: Although not in the fixed-point system I think.
20:53:33 <ais523> I could make it win by a lot rather than a little at the cost of performance against some other programs
20:53:47 <ais523> I didn't actually notice how close it was until after the program was already finished
20:55:02 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=661
20:55:04 <Phantom_Hoover> XD
20:56:19 <elliott> :-D
20:56:29 <elliott> beautifully subtle
20:56:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Paul Simon looks so funny.
20:57:09 <ais523> Gregor: slowpoke was just designed around "let me make a deep-poke program", but it turned out quite similar
20:57:24 <ais523> however, its decoy setup is rather different from FFSPG, it's a fundamentally different strategy there
20:57:27 <ais523> and its attack is different too
20:57:37 <elliott> Furry furry deep poking girls.
20:57:41 <elliott> Or is that where the SP name comes from.
20:57:48 <ais523> it is, I think
20:58:29 <elliott> was the original poke deep?
20:58:37 <ais523> no
20:58:44 <elliott> howso?
20:58:51 <ais523> it stops as soon as it sees a nonzero cell
20:58:58 <elliott> ah
20:59:03 <elliott> how did it work? >:)
20:59:04 <ais523> whereas FFSPG and slowpoke look for other values near zero too
20:59:05 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
20:59:19 <ais523> the idea of poke was to find the opponent's first decoy and set up nine squares from it
20:59:26 <ais523> so as to be able to make more decoys, and attack sooner
20:59:47 <ais523> slowpoke uses the poke to know where to start attacking, but it has different secondary purposes
21:00:00 <ais523> for one, it tries to trip enemy tripwires
21:00:12 <ais523> causing them to screw up their synchronization by starting too early
21:00:24 <elliott> Deewiant: Quick, make [insert type of train here].
21:00:26 <ais523> and causing programs to think slowpoke is fast-rush and use an inappropriate response to it
21:00:48 <elliott> Or use allegro as a transition to music names :P
21:01:59 <ais523> <bhaak> wow, sometimes you wonder how many people respobsible for POSIX get shot by disgruntled programmers <Xjs> 362'881 <Xjs> why are you asking?
21:02:18 <ais523> ^ this explains why POSIX sucks, it was designed by a /very large/ committee
21:02:35 <elliott> rest in peace POSIX committee members.
21:02:38 <elliott> actually, don't.
21:03:09 <elliott> ais523: it was mostly defined by the ridonkulously huge committee of "every unix system vendor and hackers thereof"
21:03:21 <elliott> :)
21:03:24 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train (>)*8(>[-][-])*21
21:03:30 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train: 16.6
21:03:36 <Deewiant> elliott: Happy?
21:03:44 <elliott> Deewiant: Does it beat slowpoke?
21:03:54 * Sgeo wonders what a war between the Integrated Data Sentient Entity and an aware Haruhi would be like.
21:03:55 <Deewiant> Some of the time
21:04:01 <Sgeo> Of course, that would destroy the premise
21:04:01 <ais523> only on short tapes?
21:04:03 <elliott> Deewiant: Insufficient.
21:04:08 <Deewiant> ais523: Yes
21:04:17 * Phantom_Hoover wonders how much thought has been put into clockwork computing.
21:04:17 <ais523> slowpoke can't beat fast rush programs on tapes shorter than 14 or so, unless it's lucky
21:04:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Not enough.
21:04:32 <cpressey> i guess this one's next --> http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/137/
21:04:42 <cpressey> i'll let you know if it's actually interesting :)
21:04:43 <elliott> cpressey: YESSS
21:04:45 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving).
21:04:51 <elliott> by a reverend no less!
21:04:56 <Phantom_Hoover> XD
21:04:58 <ais523> wasn't the Analytical Engine clockwork?
21:05:18 <Phantom_Hoover> My children, let us consider the theological implications of Guido van Rossum.
21:05:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Is he the Messiah born again?
21:05:36 <Sgeo> I've seen ++variable as a useful trick
21:05:43 <ais523> elliott: did you notice that I slightly tweaked waterfall3 to beat your copy of it, btw?
21:05:51 <elliott> ais523: nope :)
21:06:01 <elliott> ais523: i removed my copy
21:06:03 <ais523> I couldn't resist
21:06:05 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:06:05 <ais523> and no you didn't
21:06:07 <elliott> (my (remaining) copy)
21:06:08 <ais523> you gave the wrong name
21:06:08 <elliott> ais523: I did
21:06:16 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:06:16 <Deewiant> elliott: You didn't specify that, you just wanted a train.
21:06:17 <elliott> ...thanks for telling me!
21:06:22 <elliott> Deewiant: I specify it now.
21:06:23 <ais523> 30 | + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + - + + + + + + - + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + | 53.4 | 24.6 | 30 | elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1.bfjoust
21:06:24 <ais523> 31 | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | 0.0 | -47.0 | 31 | elliott_elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1.bfjoust
21:06:32 <elliott> !bfjoust _ais523_waterfall3_1 <
21:06:43 <elliott> lesson: don't ever have a nick X_Y if someone has the nick X.
21:06:46 <EgoBot> Score for elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1: 0.0
21:06:47 <Deewiant> Where's the interpreter that's currently used on the hill
21:06:56 <elliott> Deewiant: http://git.zem.fi/home-of-bugs/
21:07:02 <elliott> (Or "chainlance", you decide.)
21:07:27 <ais523> anyway, I can't think of any way to tweak waterfall3 to beat slowpoke
21:07:55 <elliott> ais523: If I figure out how to do an antislowpoke, maybe it'll revive the hill strategy set a bit :)
21:07:55 <ais523> other than detecting it (not too hard) and switching to a strategy designed specifically to beat it
21:08:02 <elliott> interior_crocodile_alligator was surprisingly interesting.
21:08:17 <ais523> elliott: it was, it actually inspired me to invent the triplock
21:08:25 <ais523> well, I didn't invent it, Gregor did
21:08:28 <elliott> mostly it's because anti- programs don't really do anything logical
21:08:30 <ais523> but it inspired me to remember it existed
21:08:34 <elliott> which tends to confuse anything that does any thinking
21:08:57 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck&curid=1138&diff=21473&oldid=21035 SOME KINDLY RUSSIAN PLEASE RESPOND
21:09:00 <ais523> well, I think timing-based defence (defend9, etc) is more or less dead nowadays
21:09:46 <Deewiant> elliott: {chain,crank,gear}lance?
21:10:18 <elliott> Deewiant: It's the one that doesn't do any statistics output.
21:10:43 <ais523> elliott: what does defend8mwahahaha or whatever it's called do?
21:10:44 <elliott> "Carmack: Direct3D is now better than OpenGL" What joy.
21:10:54 <ais523> I tended to defeat it by accident too much, and never really looked into it
21:10:59 <elliott> ais523: I have nooooooo idea
21:11:08 <elliott> ais523: I probably just tweaked it randomly
21:11:12 <elliott> scores were nondeterministic back then
21:11:15 <ais523> (note: slowpoke wasn't tweaked to defeat anything particular, apart from one of the trains, and that was just a bugfix)
21:11:33 <ais523> (although I think I continued by tweaking it to beat one of the programs it was already beating more convincingly)
21:11:42 <elliott> does anyone here know nasm?
21:12:33 <elliott> gah
21:12:41 <elliott> 0f5c != (0x0f00 | '\\')
21:12:42 -!- cpressey has joined.
21:12:42 <elliott> in nasm :/
21:12:44 <elliott> why?!
21:12:57 <elliott> hi cpressey-essey
21:14:34 <elliott> Deewiant: Is nasm part of the everything you're an expert in?
21:14:40 <elliott> (Yes, I looked at the manual. :p)
21:15:03 <Deewiant> I've only really used fasm
21:15:48 <elliott> Oh, how thoroughly *weird*.
21:15:58 <elliott> '\' is how you do a backslash.
21:16:04 <elliott> '\\' is interpreted as a string, and packed into a word.
21:16:10 <elliott> fizzie: plz2be fix nasm mode to handle '\' :P
21:18:11 <Deewiant> !bfjoust antislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-])*21
21:18:13 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 13.1
21:18:24 <Deewiant> elliott: Happy?
21:18:57 <elliott> Deewiant: Does it work? :P
21:19:04 <Deewiant> It beats slowpoke
21:19:22 <Deewiant> Not always, but more often than not
21:23:59 <cpressey> speaker mentioned brainfuck!
21:24:09 <cpressey> and is in fact introducing it.
21:24:57 <cpressey> (he's getting to implementing it entirely using decorators)
21:25:59 <cpressey> stateful decorators.
21:28:37 <elliott> :D
21:28:43 <elliott> cpressey: Ask for Funge-98.
21:28:50 <elliott> :trollface:
21:29:10 <elliott> also, a reverend saying fuck?! *gasp*
21:29:33 <cpressey> he didn't say its name, and his slide said "BRAINF*CK"
21:30:15 <elliott> lame
21:30:17 <elliott> boycott
21:30:46 <pikhq> Expertise in fasm should carry over to nasm.
21:31:26 <pikhq> What with it being an masm-esque assembler.
21:32:32 <ais523> elliott: how do you do a single single quote? '''?
21:32:51 <elliott> ais523: no idea
21:32:55 <elliott> but probably
21:33:19 <Deewiant> Why not, '' is invalid, after all
21:33:27 <elliott> Deewiant: not necessarily true
21:33:29 <elliott> 'abcd' is a valid word
21:33:45 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:33:46 <Deewiant> '' would just mean 0 and thus isn't very necessary
21:43:36 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
21:47:01 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
21:47:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:48:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/218476/top-story-katamari-hack-will-destroy-your-productivity/
21:48:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Sorry, WebSplat is no longer the coolest.
21:49:19 <elliott> WebSplatamari Damacy
21:49:34 <elliott> It has multiplayer, the one thing Gregor was too stupid to do!
21:49:35 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: ... damn, hard to compete with that.
21:50:09 -!- cpressey has joined.
21:51:35 <Phantom_Hoover> OMFH
21:51:39 <Phantom_Hoover> *OMFG
21:51:43 <Phantom_Hoover> MUST PLAY ON HAVENWORKS
21:51:54 <Phantom_Hoover> NOOOO
21:51:57 <Phantom_Hoover> IT'S GONE
21:59:57 <fizzie> elliott, ais523, Deewiant: nasm does escape characters (with a quite traditional set of escapes) when you put the string in backquotes; so `\\` would do a backslash too. And I think the official way how you do a single quote is "'". (".." and '..' are completely equivalent, except you can put 's inside ""s and vice versa; and `..` works otherwise the same except enables those escapes.)
22:00:19 <elliott> fizzie: But nasm-mode fails at '\'! :p
22:00:22 <elliott> And it's YOUUUURS
22:00:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: havenworks is gone
22:00:33 <elliott> oh god
22:00:34 <elliott> Gregor:
22:00:35 <elliott> Gregor:
22:00:37 <elliott> put up your mirro
22:00:39 <elliott> r
22:00:52 <Gregor> ... uh oh
22:00:58 <Gregor> I didn't make a mirror of havenworks :P
22:01:25 <elliott> Gregor: you said you did!
22:01:27 <elliott> ooh, can't wait for december
22:01:46 <Gregor> I did? Then I guess I did :P
22:01:51 <Gregor> I just don't remember :P
22:03:15 <ais523> fizzie: hmm, egostats hasn't updated like you said you were going to
22:03:43 <elliott> he didn't say would just could iirc
22:03:58 <ais523> I thought he said he was going to add slowpoke to it while EgoBot was down
22:04:03 <ais523> in order to get in first, or something
22:04:06 <ais523> not that it massively matters
22:04:30 <fizzie> ais523: I think I said "perhaps I should", or some such matters.
22:04:35 <ais523> ah, perhaps
22:04:42 <fizzie> Since it's now officially in, I think I'll just hg pull.
22:06:26 <fizzie> It takes awfully long to draw those per-program plots; I was thinking of just exporting the data as json and doing most of the graphics client-side, at least for per-program (or maybe even per-match, though I guess egojsout is a better platform for that) visualizations.
22:06:44 <Deewiant> !bfjoust antislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21
22:07:24 <ais523> Deewiant: heh, that probably does work
22:07:36 <Deewiant> There's already a working one up
22:07:56 <elliott> does it beat it in all configurations?
22:08:00 <elliott> a real anti- program does
22:08:08 <Deewiant> !bfjoust antislowpoke <
22:08:13 <ais523> I expect so, yes
22:08:13 <Deewiant> !bfjoust NOTAREALantislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21
22:08:19 <elliott> or not.
22:08:26 <Deewiant> <<<<<<>><<<<<<<<<<><< <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<X<< 33
22:08:34 <ais523> hmm, that's bizarre
22:08:38 <elliott> hmm, shoddy
22:08:41 <elliott> i can do better!
22:08:54 <elliott> ais523: get on writing a program to make an anti- automatically
22:09:03 <ais523> I've thought about it
22:09:08 <Deewiant> !bfjoust foo bar
22:09:11 <ais523> but if I did, I'd do it to anti the whole hill and get a perfect score
22:09:23 <elliott> ais523: null program draws with slowpoke
22:09:25 <elliott> how fun
22:09:26 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, how often are you told that you need to vote in response to political whinging?
22:09:29 <elliott> oh wait no
22:09:48 <ais523> no it doesn't
22:09:57 <ais523> strangely, I tried to run allegro vs slowpoke in egojsout
22:10:03 <ais523> and allegro just sat there doing nothing, not even setting decoys
22:10:08 <ais523> I assume it was some sort of egojsout glitch
22:10:19 <ais523> race condition in parsing, perhaps
22:10:25 <Deewiant> Meh, !bfjoust isn't working
22:10:37 <ais523> it was being very weird for me earlier
22:11:48 <Deewiant> Well anyway, the current one does <<<<<<>><>><<<<>><<<< <<<<<<<><<X<>X<<X<>X< 20
22:11:55 <elliott> So what's a good clear loop these days? :P
22:12:00 <Deewiant> [-]
22:12:05 <elliott> Lame
22:12:10 <ais523> you can steal the one from slowpoke if you like
22:12:19 <elliott> ais523: to use in antislowpoke? brilliant
22:12:21 <ais523> although I think it can actually be marginally improved to do better versus shudder
22:12:35 <elliott> what is it? I haven't read slowpoke
22:12:42 <Deewiant> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_slowpoke.bfjoust
22:12:42 <elliott> I do antis purely on traces
22:12:47 <elliott> Deewiant: that doesn't show me the clear loop
22:12:50 <elliott> it has multiple loops
22:12:54 <Deewiant> Use 'em all
22:12:58 <elliott> What.
22:13:06 <ais523> ((+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]]>)*21 is the clear loop
22:13:12 -!- iconmaster has joined.
22:13:16 <ais523> hmm, it'd be interesting to see how that does on its own
22:13:53 <ais523> anyway, if you want to beat slowpoke, specialcase the tape values +/- 2, 30, 32, 98
22:13:55 <elliott> !bfjoust (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]]>)*22
22:13:58 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
22:14:06 <elliott> !bfjoust camber (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]])*22
22:14:06 <ais523> EgoBot: you mean *21 at the end
22:14:12 <elliott> ais523: nope, see start of loop
22:14:14 <elliott> which i changed
22:14:19 <ais523> not that it'll matter, that clear loop is incapable of falling off the tape anyway
22:14:22 <ais523> and yes, it's *8 *21
22:14:26 <ais523> if you move the > to the start
22:14:30 <ais523> as you want to move at most 29 times
22:14:56 <ais523> oh dear, egojoust has got muddled again
22:15:00 <elliott> ais523: is slowpoke's loop any good if you remove the (+)*9?
22:15:03 <ais523> you two should both submit your program again
22:15:08 <ais523> elliott: that's an offset
22:15:09 <elliott> you two?
22:15:14 <elliott> oh, Deewiant's
22:15:16 <ais523> you and Deewiant
22:15:18 <elliott> !bfjoust camber (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]])*22
22:15:20 <elliott> ais523: yes, but a slow offset
22:15:36 <ais523> well, you can change it to an offset clear or non-offset clear or whatever
22:15:40 <ais523> but who uses non-offset clears these days?
22:16:04 <ais523> what I will say is that against slowpoke, the optimal offset size is probably either 2 or 30, or maybe 32
22:16:04 <elliott> innovators!!
22:16:37 <elliott> your clear is lame, it does badly on your own decoys
22:17:16 <ais523> well, that clear is incredibly inflexible
22:17:26 <ais523> it just beats defence programs trivially
22:17:31 <elliott> ISTR my interior_crocodile_alligator one being okay
22:17:37 * elliott checks
22:17:40 <ais523> no existing defence program, or even existing defence /strategy/, will work well against it
22:17:50 <ais523> I've thought of a couple that might
22:17:56 <elliott> ais523: what about "assume opponent is using perfect RNG"?
22:18:00 <ais523> but I fear they'd be rather detail-dependent
22:18:02 <elliott> hmm, kinda hard to counter :P
22:18:06 <ais523> elliott: and how do you lock that?
22:18:09 <elliott> ais523: magic
22:18:24 <elliott> grr, in_egobot isn't loading
22:18:29 <ais523> you use your own perfect RNG with your same seed, that might work
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22:18:42 <elliott> what kind of perfect RNG has a seed?
22:18:56 <elliott> well.
22:19:01 <elliott> i suppose it makes sense. kinda.
22:19:01 <ais523> a reproducible perfect RNG, ofc
22:19:10 <ais523> being reproducible is generally good in an RNG
22:19:11 <elliott> if you had a functional definition (which would have to be infinitely-long)
22:19:14 <ais523> especially if you have an infinite seedspace
22:19:16 <elliott> *infinitely long
22:19:21 <ais523> I mean, if you allow arbitrary real numbers as seeds
22:19:31 <ais523> then everything is just fine
22:19:36 <elliott> heh
22:19:40 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:19:48 <elliott> at least it's not egobot
22:20:03 <ais523> anyway, it might be interesting if BF Joust had a nested loop limit
22:20:12 <ais523> in order to remove timer clear strategies
22:20:16 <ais523> that is, if they prove to hurt the gameplay
22:21:20 <elliott> oh wow
22:21:24 <elliott> I forgot ICA's clear is insane
22:21:35 <elliott> [-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]
22:21:39 <ais523> and very culnerable to triplocks
22:21:42 <ais523> *vulnerable
22:21:46 <elliott> So culnerable.
22:21:49 <ais523> very very very vulnerable to triplocks
22:21:59 <elliott> it's also very slow
22:22:01 <ais523> triplocking works against programs with three or more ] in a row
22:22:06 <ais523> and that program has, umm, 129?
22:22:48 <elliott> hmm
22:22:56 <ais523> (admittedly, they have to be actually executed for the lock to work, and at the right moment)
22:23:04 <ais523> but they would be in that clear
22:23:11 <ais523> the triplock is IIRC how waterfall3 beats ICA
22:23:13 <Phantom_Hoover> http://tourdelisp.blogspot.com/2008/03/lisper-first-look-at-haskell.html
22:23:22 <Phantom_Hoover> This is the most amusingly pretentious thing ever.
22:23:30 <ais523> also, ICA is an acronym I use all the time in my day job (idealized concurrent algol) so seeing it in this context is weird
22:23:42 <elliott> ais523: I hope you don't use CMT too.
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22:24:11 <ais523> I don't
22:24:23 <elliott> ais523: Good.
22:24:23 <ais523> that one's used a lot on certain Internet forums
22:24:28 <ais523> but not by me, and it's not so much of a jar
22:24:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:24:41 <elliott> hmm, standing for what
22:25:05 <elliott> yay for ([+{}])%n
22:25:18 <elliott> the silliest thing ever
22:25:18 <ais523> "check my thread"
22:25:28 <elliott> err, that sounds like a really irritating gthing to say
22:25:38 <fizzie> ais523: It's also Independent Component Analysis, a blind source separation thing our lab's been involved in; somewhat known in the "cocktail party problem" context.
22:25:39 <ais523> which in trading forums, translates to "you have something I want, look at what I have to see if there's something you want too"
22:25:53 <elliott> looks like egojsout doesn't handle {}
22:26:05 <ais523> I'm relatively sure it does
22:26:11 <elliott> time to troll fizzie a bit
22:26:16 <elliott> fizzie: voice input is useless
22:26:34 <fizzie> I don't think I'm up to the "no it's not" repetition this time, sowwy.
22:26:38 <elliott> :(
22:26:58 <elliott> fizzie: so can your system understand that "sowwy" is sorry
22:27:01 <elliott> OR IS IT TOO THE DUMBS
22:27:03 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, what do you actually *do*?
22:27:13 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: "Stuff."
22:27:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Kills kittens for fun and profit.
22:27:15 <Phantom_Hoover> I know you taught Java a year ago or so.
22:27:26 <elliott> I lie; he's a professional IRCer.
22:27:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: err, ais523 was the javateacher
22:27:33 <elliott> (and still is, I think)
22:27:35 <fizzie> I haven't really taught Java; that's more of an ais523 thing.
22:27:36 <ais523> indeed
22:27:51 <elliott> ais523 just kills young CSers' minds for profit!
22:27:53 <ais523> this month's exercise is effectively "recreate Zork"
22:27:56 <elliott> (I kid, I kid, they probably deserve it.)
22:28:00 <ais523> although it's not me that set it
22:28:06 <ais523> elliott: I'm trying to improve the average skill of Java programmers
22:28:06 <fizzie> There's an ICA poster on the wall in a nearby corridor at work; it's really quite a cheat.
22:28:09 <ais523> which admittedly isn't difficult
22:28:12 <elliott> ais523: not exactly the worst exercise in the world
22:28:18 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, ISTR him marking Java programs a while ago...
22:28:23 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ais523.
22:28:28 <elliott> unless you mean the bot tournament
22:28:29 <elliott> thing
22:28:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Possibly.
22:28:36 <elliott> which is the most interesting thing i know nothing about.
22:29:16 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: The AI tournament uses Java, right, but that's just my "side job"; it's not even our department's course.
22:29:25 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, so what *do* you do?
22:29:48 <elliott> IRCs.
22:29:55 <elliott> He summarises #esoteric every day.
22:30:01 <fizzie> Noise-robustness for speechy stuff, in the most general sense.
22:30:02 <elliott> Unfortunately they're under an NDA.
22:30:09 <elliott> fizzie: Yeah, yeah, your cover story.
22:30:16 <elliott> Nobody would ever REALLY work on something so pointless.
22:30:28 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, is it capable of comprehending the Scottish accent?
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_NOTAREALantislowpoke: 14.2
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_foo: 4.2
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 0.0
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 0.0
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for elliott_camber: 19.6
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for elliott_camber: 19.6
22:30:51 <Deewiant> Thar we go
22:30:52 <elliott> Whoa.
22:31:08 <Deewiant> !bfjoust foo <
22:31:14 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_foo: 0.0
22:31:35 <Deewiant> !bfjoust NOTAREALantislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21
22:31:38 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_NOTAREALantislowpoke: 14.8
22:31:45 <Sgeo> pikhq_, why is Suzumiya Haruhi trying to teach me math?
22:31:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:31:57 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, YOUR SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUMES
22:32:13 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Our system's been evaluated mostly for Finnish, really. I don't think anyone in our group is doing English dialects.
22:32:39 <fizzie> The acoustics lab guys have some sort of "recognize speech when the speaker's yelling" thing, I think that's curious enough.
22:32:57 <Phantom_Hoover> That's a start.
22:35:31 <pikhq_> Sgeo: Cause that's susùmiyaharuhinoyûutu for you.
22:35:53 <Sgeo> I think... there might be an issue with this piece of math though
22:36:04 <Sgeo> There seems to be an undeserved assumption
22:36:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, WHAT IS IT
22:37:34 <Sgeo> With the house with the Planar Graph Theorem thing, it should be impossible to determine whether x=vertices and z=sides (as assumed by Koizumi) or x=sides and z=vertices
22:38:27 <Deewiant> !bfjoust ALMOSTantislowpoke +(>)*8(>[++[-]]+)*21
22:38:45 <pikhq_> Oh, what does koisùmi know about math anyways? :P
22:39:15 <pikhq_> (or is it koitùmi?)
22:39:15 <Deewiant> That beats allegro too, ugh
22:39:21 <Sgeo> pikhq_, am I mistaken?
22:39:50 <pikhq_> Ah, it's koisùmi.
22:40:00 <pikhq_> Damned ambiguities in kana.
22:40:17 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ALMOSTantislowpoke: 19.2
22:40:35 <pikhq_> (sù and tù are pronounced *exactly the same*, and often get romanised the same.)
22:43:09 <Deewiant> elliott: <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<<<< 38, feel free to fix it.
22:43:19 <elliott> Deewiant: I'm already working on my own. :p
22:43:36 <Sgeo> pikhq_, answer me! (please)
22:43:57 <pikhq_> Sgeo: I don't know why susùmiyaharuhi is trying to teach you math at all!
22:44:24 <Sgeo> pikhq_, so I'm likely to just be correct in this matter?
22:44:36 <pikhq_> Perhaps.
22:44:39 <pikhq_> Or perhaps not.
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22:50:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, is it that an Euler characteristic doesn't change if you swap faces and vertices?
22:52:25 <Sgeo> The equation in the book certainly seemed to be saying that
22:52:45 <Phantom_Hoover> It doesn't.
22:53:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Proof is left to the reader.
22:56:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Aha!
22:56:54 <Phantom_Hoover> I found a video of someone singing "Lemon Tree"!
22:57:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Now I can sing Stan Kelly-Bootle's version!
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23:22:01 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | which is not the same thing as Windows Services for UNIX, based on the Interix subsystem.
23:24:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
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23:28:23 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:23 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | your parents should add a filter.
23:28:26 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:26 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | hm.
23:28:28 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:28 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | [22:51:47] virsys [n=virsys@or-67-232-64-36.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit IRC: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out).
23:28:30 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:30 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | │ │ (0x1000000) Alignment value to which kernel should be aligned │ │.
23:28:32 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:32 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | A bit silly to have to open a Chromium for web browsing when the while thing is Chromium.
23:28:35 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:35 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | ais523, it is 20" btw.
23:28:36 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:36 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | well exactly, people read "strcmp foo bar" and think foo==bar.
23:28:38 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:39 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | Oh, if it's a shell/dispatcher thingy, that's not too bad..
23:28:41 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:41 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | Ibwasnt running much.
23:28:42 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:43 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | Phantom_Hoover, it was like in the lab recently. Some prankster had taken all the female-female-serial-cable-converters and hooked them up into something that was almost a complete circle.
23:28:47 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | I wish that web browsers would do justified text rendering, though....
23:28:49 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:50 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | If Station V3 actually had a website, it would probably suck me into a dimensional portal or something.
23:28:52 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:52 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | u.
23:28:53 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:53 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | any non-variable merely advances the ip.
23:28:55 <elliott> optbot!
23:28:55 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | dependent on your logic that might _be_ an axiom..
23:28:56 <Deewiant> elliott
23:29:06 <elliott> Deewiant: Hey, advancing optbot repeatedly is Traditoin.
23:29:07 <optbot> elliott: oh, and y should tell the program which is the case?
23:29:08 <elliott> *Tradition.
23:29:09 <elliott> optbot!
23:29:09 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | Set one awsistor to 1 and a different one to 0 for 1, and visa versa for 0, and send a pulse when something changes?.
23:29:11 <Sgeo> Rust uses reference counting for immutable stuff, and GC for mutable stuff
23:29:13 <elliott> optbot!
23:29:13 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and | Is good..
23:29:16 <elliott> yes!
23:29:18 <Sgeo> That makes a twisted kind of sense.
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23:36:22 <Sgeo> Oh, the FAQ may be out of date
23:36:33 <Sgeo> There's an immutable later, a state layer, and a gc layer
23:38:09 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep
23:38:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:40:49 <Sgeo> " These
23:40:49 <Sgeo> notations are marked using a special form of bracketing, such that a reader unfamiliar
23:40:49 <Sgeo> with the extension can still parse the surrounding text by skipping over the bracketed
23:40:49 <Sgeo> extension text"
23:40:54 <Sgeo> This puts me in a good mood
23:44:54 <Sgeo> Tutorial
23:44:56 <Sgeo> TODO.
23:48:09 <Sgeo> Hmm, prove is a keyword
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