00:00:13 Sgeo is taking a course of some sort on i dunno elementary school math i guess
00:00:22 oklopol, multivariable calculus
00:00:26 yeah that stuff
00:00:27 :P
00:00:30 http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-02sc-multivariable-calculus-fall-2010/part-a-vectors-determinants-and-planes/session-1-vectors/
00:00:55 the multivariable calculus course we had here is horribly hard, i barely got a 5 from it
00:02:47 mit, huh? that's a big name, maybe they know what's useful to learn better than me
00:09:07 -!- pumpkin has joined.
00:09:07 -!- pumpkin has quit (Changing host).
00:09:07 -!- pumpkin has joined.
00:09:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:11:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:12:54 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:14:43 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
00:19:05 hey i just got a great idea
00:19:20 if i don't sleep at all, i get to go to the university now!
00:19:58 there's one small but, i don't get to sleep at all
00:20:11 i'm in quite a pickle
00:23:21 -!- copumpkin has joined.
00:23:24 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:32:16 -!- cheater00 has joined.
00:35:42 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:59:41 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
01:04:25 -!- Behold has joined.
01:06:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
01:11:40 The PDF didn't say i-hat, it said i
01:11:41 :(
01:18:13 -!- augur has joined.
01:19:04 :|
01:19:07 where the fuck is oerjan
01:22:00 -!- copumpkin has joined.
01:22:41 copumpkin! \o/
01:22:42 |
01:22:42 |\
01:22:45 :X
01:25:07 hi augur
01:26:25 hey :D
01:26:43 http://www.wellnowwhat.net/puzzles/1/
01:26:46 have more puzzle!
01:29:35 @tell oerjan i was wrong about the 2 2-cycles 3 4-cycles one :x
01:29:36 Consider it noted.
01:30:08 Someone in the class just asked the question I was thinking, and was going to ask here
01:32:57 creat@libc.so: STILL AVAILABLE
01:33:38 -!- wareya_ has joined.
01:37:01 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
01:41:51 MIT professors have awesome blackboards
01:47:11 blackboards suck
01:47:55 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:48:24 http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-02sc-multivariable-calculus-fall-2010/part-a-vectors-determinants-and-planes/session-1-vectors/MIT18_02SC_we_3_comb.pdf
01:48:37 It took me way too long to remember the trig behind that answer
01:50:37 The midpoint P = ⇒ (B + A) − C
01:50:38 Gah
01:50:51 The midpoint P = ⇒ (B + A) − C.
01:51:00 It won't let me copy what I need to copy
01:51:06 http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-02sc-multivariable-calculus-fall-2010/part-a-vectors-determinants-and-planes/session-1-vectors/MIT18_02SC_we_4_comb.pdf
01:51:16 I see.. how that works, but I don't think I'd be able to do it myself
01:52:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
01:59:44 Gaaah, Glee. Perhaps the worst thing about it is that its obnoxious focus on modern popular music.
02:08:01 * Sgeo 's eyes light up when he realizes that the first question requires no trig... wait
02:08:16 The answer has to be in terms of... angle ? So it does
02:10:52 * Sgeo WTFs
02:13:03 Como se dice "right angle" in vectorese?
02:14:25 I know what I'm subtracting. I'll just draw that
02:16:14 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
02:16:16 -!- pikhq has joined.
02:17:24 Now that I know what I'm doing, WTF does this problem have to do with vectors?
02:17:29 It's just a trig problem
02:20:25 "a) A river ﬂows at 3 mph and a rower rows at 6 mph. What heading should the rower
02:20:25 take to go straight across a river?"
02:20:40 Easy enough once I decided to just ignore anything related to vectors
02:20:54 Well, except remembering subtraction, which helped me visualize it
02:27:00 sgeo: right angle in vectorese is "orthogonal" which formulaically means "have a dot product of zero"
02:27:16 I haven't gotten to dot products yet
02:27:49 I kind of did glance ahead, but have no conception of what dot products mean geometrically. I'm going to watch the video, I think
02:28:50 that problem in vectorese would be "find theta such that 6*[cos theta,sin theta]+[0,3]=[x,0]"
02:29:33 which you can see reduces to solving 6sin theta=3
02:29:49 -!- augur has joined.
02:29:51 but yeah, just putting things in perspective :P
02:34:21 * Sgeo headaches in the shape of parallelograms
02:34:57 I'm just going to read the solutions and move on with my life
02:35:31 And laziness means half of my solution for the first question is wrong
02:50:15 quintopia, you inadertantly gave me an answer to one of these problems
02:51:33 no i didn't
02:52:26 quintopia, you haven't even seen the problem I'm referring to
02:52:52 exactly. therefore i couldn't give you the answer.
02:53:07 indeed, it is impossible to give an answer inadvertently
02:53:23 i may have given you some information that made it possible for you to find the solution
02:53:30 but that's not exactly the same
02:59:26 Note to self: Do not guess at cosines
02:59:57 I decided that cos(30deg) = 1/sqrt(2)
03:03:49 * pikhq chants tau at Sgeo
03:06:40 copumpkin: did you check out the puzzles?
03:07:31 Would it be so terrible to write 2pi/2 everywhere?
03:07:48 2pi/8, etc.
03:07:55 >.>
03:08:05 Refuse to simplify!
03:08:08 * Sgeo goes nuts
03:08:19 augur: checking now :)
03:09:30 Good *God* the Fukushima-Daiichi reactor is in a bad state.
03:10:40 augur: do you have an answer yourself? :P
03:10:57 augur: or did you just figure out how to express your usual question in graphical form and are hoping someone figures it out? :P
03:11:22 i have the answer :)
03:11:22 Containment breach, meltdown, too radioactive to allow humans near...
03:11:38 * copumpkin wonders what the question is
03:11:44 You can see that equations with x, y, and z, whether they are planes, or empty sets... using dot products somehow?
03:11:45 Burning spent fuel rods...
03:11:53 Ok, I renounce my fear of dot products
03:12:32 copumpkin: the question is what explains it!
03:12:37 :o
03:14:28 n/m
03:14:36 ok ill be back in a bit
03:14:37 :)
03:14:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:16:31 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
03:16:32 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
03:16:49 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
03:17:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
03:17:30 hmm
03:17:41 a friend brought up an interesting question to me, maybe some of you dudes have ideas
03:17:57 he's trying to optimize deflate compression on a wordlist
03:18:03 the list doesn't need to be in order
03:18:24 so the question is, is there a method that could be used to squeeze a bit extra out of deflate by rearranging the order of the words?
03:26:23 Take points P = (a, 1, −1), Q = (0, 1, 1), R = (a, −1, 3). For what value(s) of a is P QR
03:26:23 a right angle
03:26:25 WTF
03:26:31 QR is never a right angle
03:26:52 And is it asking for all 3 2d angles to be right angles at once? Because QR is never a right angle
03:27:43 O...k
03:27:48 I misunderstood the question
03:28:15 Let's all laugh at Sgeo for forgetting basic geometry!
03:28:47 Well, basic notation regarding geometry
03:29:42 -!- augur has joined.
03:29:53 augur, feel free to laugh at me
03:30:26 Sgeo: ok
03:30:45 why?
03:30:55 copumpkin: sussed it yet?
03:31:03 augur: nope :/
03:31:08 :(
03:31:11 ask me questions!
03:31:20 augur, not understanding what was meant by "angle PQR"
03:31:30 Sgeo: what
03:31:47 As in, I failed to properly comprehend the question
03:31:56 what question
03:32:08 In this OpenCourseWare course I'm doing
03:32:22 ok
03:32:22 well
03:32:24 i dont care
03:41:39 augur: are there infinite non-isomorphic pictures you could provide?
03:41:49 what do you mean
03:42:03 would you run out of pictures, eventually?
03:42:06 for this particular problem
03:42:10 no
03:44:44 copumpkin: tho keep in mind that this is entailed by the fact that oerjan discovered, which is that the disjoint union of graphs is always a member
03:46:39 I see
03:46:44 but thats not why
03:46:47 its merely entailed
03:46:53 i mean, its part of why
03:46:56 but even without that
03:51:12 :o
03:51:17 hmm?
03:51:24 I dunno :P
03:51:29 ask questions about it!
03:54:49 Why am I wasting time by writing an Mandelbrot set generator in C?
03:54:57 Oh well. I guess I could count this as C practice.
03:54:57 inda
03:54:59 kinda*
03:54:59 copumpkin: its really simple and elegant underlyingly :)
03:55:35 I'm sure it is :P
03:55:48 :)
03:58:10 copumpkin: no questions? :(
03:58:47 sorry, doing other stuff too
03:58:52 o ok
04:01:01 myndzi: are all the words unique?
04:01:18 \o/
04:01:33 obviously myndzi is dead
04:03:33 tes
04:03:37 *yes
04:03:51 but he's still online because \o/ still works
04:03:52 ¦
04:03:52 ´¸¨
04:03:58 wat
04:03:58 :|
04:04:01 \o/
04:04:05 myndzi hates me :()
04:04:07 \o/
04:04:08 try adding some leading spaces
04:04:12 \o/
04:04:12 |
04:04:13 >\
04:04:15 :|
04:04:16 >|
04:04:26 it's not that complicated
04:04:33 i will murder you, myndzi
04:05:04 myndzi: change your nick to "my" or "zi" or "dz" or something so people will stop complaining when it doesn't work :P
04:05:32 what
04:06:37 -!- pikhq has joined.
04:06:56 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
04:07:07 pikhq, apparently the OCW Multivariable calculus course includes stuff about matrices and determinants
04:07:34 Is this a major component of linear algebra? Is this course going to give me knowledge of linear algebra on the side?
04:08:03 there is a major overlap between calculus and lin alg
04:11:02 maybe people should just figure out that i can't put a foot in my nick
04:11:03 :P
04:11:04 That overlap is an example of the solid FAIL of mathematics education.
04:11:06 I wonder if I should do the later stuff in the earlier calculus
04:11:21 But, yeah, that's pretty normal.
04:11:47 I don't really know about Taylor series, about improper integrals, I don't remember more advanced integration stuff..
04:12:06 And I deliberately pushed all introduction of trig where the original problem doesn't have trig out of my mind
04:12:17 You need trig.
04:12:47 I can do the derivatives and integrals of sine and cosine...
04:13:02 And derivative of tangent given a bit of time, since I haven't memorized it
04:13:16 Memorise trig identities. And when you're done with that, do it again.
04:13:32 sin/cos=tan
04:13:38 sin^2+cos^2=1
04:17:42 myndzi: what? foot in your nick?
04:17:43 i dont get it
04:20:05 pikhq: i don't consider it fail. i think calc 3 should have strong lin alg elements in it. you should know basic lin alg coming in and not have to be retaught it, but calculus techniques should be added to your lin alg arsenal
04:21:49 quintopia: I think linear algebra should be taught long before then.
04:22:13 pikhq: exactly. i just said the same thing.
04:22:41 No, you said "the status quo is just fine".
04:22:51 Which is the exact *opposite* of what I'm saying.
04:25:38 the status quo of math in general is not fine
04:25:53 but this particular part of the curriculum's organization makes sense to me
04:25:58 what would you change specifically
04:26:34 Teach linear algebra before, not after & during, calc 3.
04:27:07 And beat whoever thought that teaching vectors 4 or 5 seperate fucking times was a good idea.
04:27:08 ...which is how it is done now. i was asking what you wanted to change.
04:27:27 News to me!
04:27:47 something must be wrong with your school
04:28:06 Where do you reside?
04:28:13 atlanta
04:28:31 I can only conclude your school is less stupid than most.
04:30:37 here at gatech, lin alg is done during the first 1/3 of calc 2 (the last 2/3 are actual calculus topics)
04:30:50 oh
04:30:51 I just took a peek at the final exam
04:30:53 got that backwards
04:31:04 It states a trigonometric identity right there
04:31:07 At the top of the exam
04:31:09 the first 1/3 is single variable calc and the last 2/3 is lin alg
04:31:29 Congrats, GA Tech isn't quite as stupid as some other places.
04:31:30 http://i53.tinypic.com/hwd6is.png
04:31:34 http://i52.tinypic.com/b9dkzb.png
04:31:37 so taken as a series, calc I,II,III is svc, then lin alg, then MVC
04:31:40 This is the difference between abs and fabsf.
04:31:55 opps
04:32:06 In my experience, calc II has consisted of more single variable calculus, and calc III has been multivariable calculus.
04:32:20 And then comes linear algebra.
04:32:30 what school are you at
04:32:52 http://www.math.gatech.edu/course/math/1502
04:32:55 Currently, local community college, but this is the *third* fucking school I've been to.
04:33:44 calculus and then linear algebra?
04:33:45 :(
04:33:47 i didn't take calc I or calc II here though
04:33:52 I did calc I as an AP class, calc II at University of Colorado, and calc III at Missouri University of Science & Technology, and am now doing linear algebra at the community college.
04:34:05 incidentally, anyone familiar with voting system research?
04:34:10 (like, actual research)
04:34:14 pikhq: depends which country your in. in the US you would be right
04:34:19 variable: I'm in the US.
04:34:19 i took AP calc in high school to exempt calc I, then adv calc and lin alg as separate courses at a community college while in high school to exempt calc II
04:34:25 As is quintopia.
04:34:29 coppro: minimally I've read some studies but I don't know it well
04:34:38 coppro: i know the arrow thm
04:34:44 i don't know any modern stuff
04:35:01 coppro: Calc II is a hard prereq for linear algebra.
04:35:16 Which is basically "single-variable calculus we didn't teach you in calc I".
04:35:41 which...doesn't make any sense
04:36:01 how about they just squeeze that stuff into calc I and then teach a whole course on lin alg :P
04:36:43 quintopia: in the EU system they do that. EU Calc I is == US Calc I and Calc II; and EU calc II is == calc III + more
04:36:49 quintopia: arrow theorem?
04:37:00 coppro: basically: there is no perfect voting system
04:37:10 variable: oh yeah, that's not the exciting one
04:37:20 Random voting FTW? :P
04:37:28 pikhq: what we have at UW is calc 1, 2, and 3, with 3 being multivariate
04:37:31 or more accurately: one can't convert a ranked order of preferences into a group pref
04:37:37 coppro: Likewise.
04:37:45 algebra is given in Algebra, Lin Alg I, Lin Alg II
04:37:47 it's a spearate stream
04:38:00 variable: rather, there is no system where more than 2 candidates can be voted on that satisfies 3 specific "fairness" principles. there can still be a "perfect" system if you redefine "fair"
04:38:17 Algebra is a singular course that is basically 'learn to proof'
04:38:27 linear algebra teaches, unsurprisingly, linear algebra
04:38:27 Single linear algebra course, a presumption you're familiar with elementary algebra, and that's about it on the algebra front unless you're seeking a math degree.
04:38:30 quintopia: yes. I wasn't giving a precise definition
04:38:36 pikhq: oh yeah, this is math faculty
04:38:42 dunno what other faculties do
04:38:57 rank preferences are kind of a shitty way to vote anyway
04:39:08 At which point you, of course, actually have all the fun stuff in the cirriculum. :)
04:39:17 Curriculum, even.
04:39:43 aka
04:39:46 (there's also calculus 4 and 5 for amath)
04:39:47 discrete math <3
04:39:51 pikhq: who?
04:39:55 students or me in particular?
04:40:05 dmath > amath
04:40:13