22:13:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:13:11 -!- glogbot has joined. 22:13:25 OK, /now/ it shouldn't be so screwy :P 22:13:29 !logs 22:13:29 Logs: http://gregorr.dyndns.org:8080/logs/_esoteric/?C=N;O=D 22:14:07 The reason I want to know is in case of TCP/IP drivers that will use those invalid addresses for their internal use, and not conflict with anything since they are invalid. Actually, we should group the invalid addresses into two groups, "driver level" and "application level" invalid groups so that the driver and application program can use their own codes for internal use. 22:16:35 For example, if a IPv4 only program tries to connect to a IPv6 only server, then the driver can allocate a temporary IPv4 address for that connection. There might be other uses too; and maybe the application programs can also have their own uses different to these. 22:17:16 That sounds more like something you should configure on a per-network basis (in which case they can use the private address ranges) and not hardcode anywhere. 22:17:33 The "Future Use" block (240/4)? 22:18:19 There's that, though of course technically speaking it wouldn't be impossible for those to be used to something that'd conflict with your home-grown solution. 22:24:13 Purely as a hack you might also be able to do that particular job by allocating different "unlikely" addresses in the 127.0.0.0/8 block and then treating them specially, but of course that's not very legal. 22:45:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:58:45 Which is, why to designate some are driver level and some as application level. Then it will not conflict. 23:01:36 -!- augur has joined. 23:07:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:08:26 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:10:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:11:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:34:20 Ping. 23:34:22 `echo ping 23:34:23 ping 23:37:36 Phantom_Hoover: What is she doing in #esoteric? Is this your doing too? 23:37:44 Haskell does not qualify as esoteric. 23:38:01 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 23:38:09 I'VE BEEN BACKTRACED 23:38:19 CONSEQUENCES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME 23:39:11 but esoteric qualifies as a haskell 23:45:26 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:47:06 ALL HAIL PHANTOM_HOOVER, THE GREAT LAMBDABOT SUMMONER 23:47:39 *GLORIOVS SOCIALIST SUMMONER OF COMRADE LAMBDABOT 23:48:41 QVITE 23:51:01 bye 23:51:08 -!- lambdabot has left. 23:51:32 Phantom_Hoover: Take that. 23:51:40 * shachaf shouldn't abuse lambdabot bugs, actually. 23:51:45 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:51:56 * oerjan hugs lambdabot 23:52:04 shachaf, I HAVE POWERS BEYOND YOVR IMAGINING 23:52:17 GLORIOVS SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF ESOTERICA WILL PREVAIL 00:00:45 Ubuntu is the Worst Distro. 00:01:40 zzo38: Wayland has hardly any features at all. 00:01:41 Yes. Still, Ubuntu is what is used at Free Geek, when I am there I am using the Ubuntu system (although there are things I do not like about it). 00:02:48 Just about all it really does is combine the framebuffers of each program into the graphics card's framebuffer. 00:03:23 The reason for this is that APT Guy has write access to its repositories. 00:03:29 High-level write access, too. 00:03:44 It has some things I don't like, also there should be a few things added. And then make the window manager as a separate module. 00:03:55 -!- impomatic has joined. 00:03:57 But mostly, Wayland seems good idea. 00:04:07 What features don't you like about it? 00:04:34 pikhq_, based on the fact that this is zzo, it's probably a weird mix of ludditism and hatred of bloat. 00:04:56 And I doubt that making the window manager seperate is all that sane; it actually makes sense for there to be a bit more of a tight binding between compositing and window management these days. 00:05:34 Not to mention that the Wayland design gives a window manager developer much more flexibility. 00:05:34 pikhq_: I mean, make it a separate module but that both modules are compiled together. 00:05:51 zzo38: Oh. That's kinda-sorta what it actually has going on. 00:06:54 zzo38: The intent is to have most of the functionality for compositing and such in a seperate library, so that someone making a specific compositor doesn't have to deal with much boilerplate. 00:07:59 I would have it without MIME types. Also without dragging, without non-rectangular windows, no dragging an icon from one window to another, and so on. 00:08:19 I would have selection buffers have PRIMARY,SECONDARY,CLIPBOARD like X has. 00:08:24 MIME types is not part of Wayland at all. 00:08:58 Dragging is implemented above. 00:08:58 pikhq_: I found a XML file that says some things about MIME types, though. 00:09:17 Non-rectangular windows? What, you mean how there's an *alpha channel*? 00:09:57 I've got a Forth interpreter in under 600 bytes :-) 00:10:14 pikhq_: Well, I don't actually know. But I do not think there should be an alpha channel or shaped windows. 00:10:46 Also, the format for mouse pointer icons I would have a table with each mouse pointer icon 256 bytes, plus 1 byte to indicate the adjustment for hot spot of mouse pointer icons. 00:10:47 It would take more effort to *not* support an alpha channel. 00:11:08 You could implement a Wayland compositor with such a format. 00:11:33 Remember, Wayland enforces *even less* policy than X. 00:12:01 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:12:22 Even if, there is alpha channel, and it would take more effort to make not support alpha channel, I would do so that using alpha channel is not guaranteed to work, according to my specification. 00:12:34 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 00:13:37 zzo38: It is entirely up to the compositor how the alpha channel is handled. 00:13:56 I found also information about notification about the screen size. I would do it only the window manager is allowed to know the screen size, and all other programs only know the size of their window(s) and not the screen size. 00:14:02 It could even be rendered as epilepsy-inducing flashing, if you so like. 00:15:58 http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/g6fnk/microsoft_shuts_down_the_worlds_largest_spam/ 00:16:06 zzo38: what about games that want to size themselves to the screen? 00:16:08 I should deal with alpha channel in a bit different way: I write a specification that says there is no guarantee as to what will happen when the alpha channel is used, and then make the program to ignore the alpha channel. 00:16:26 e.g. DNA Maze fullscreens itself if the screen isn't large enough to fit the window it wants to make plus a window border 00:16:29 and windows itself otherwise 00:16:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:16:37 zzo38: It would be entirely valid for a compositor to do that. 00:16:52 I can't help but think that it's Microsoft's damn fault in the first place for getting the world into a situation with huge amounts of hardware running a pathetically insecure OS. 00:16:55 ais523: They would specify what size they want. So if they want 640x480 and the screen is larger, the program gets a 640x480 window. 00:17:22 zzo38: Part of the *intent* of Wayland is to make full-screen display not a set of hacks. 00:17:23 That is, the client area of the window is 640x480, but the border and stuff is added on to that size. 00:17:48 -!- Zuu__ has joined. 00:18:11 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:18:41 pikhq_: Well, I think it should be up to the user to select full-screen mode (the window manager knows the screen size so that you can push the key combination for full screen and that resizes the window and tells the program that its window size is now [X,Y] where [X,Y] is the screen size. 00:19:46 The program does not need to know whether it is running full screen or not, it only needs to know the size of its window. 00:20:02 -!- impomatic has left (?). 00:22:05 Most programs will want to render differently in full-screen mode than not. 00:22:21 Not to mention that it's nice to have the program be able to do it. 00:23:17 I do not think so. Otherwise you will run two programs that both want full-screen and then you cannot tile the screen into multiple windows anymore. 00:24:41 Seems to me that it'd be a simple matter for the compositor to just decide against allowing that. 00:32:51 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 00:35:10 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:35:34 -!- cheater- has joined. 00:38:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:41:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:58:35 -!- Zuu__ has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:34:17 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:35:04 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:42:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:48 -!- catseye has joined. 01:50:18 256 bytes per mouse pointer icon may be too much, maybe 65 bytes for each icon is OK (one byte is for adjustment for hot spot) 01:55:02 -!- catseye has changed nick to cpressey. 01:56:40 i don't know what you are talking about, because i haven't read the logs, because my web browser thinks they are BIN files and wants to download them instead of letting me read them, so i will give you advice based on complete ignorance: you should use a compiled sprite for the mouse pointer icon 01:57:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:57:21 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 01:57:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:58:21 that way the hotspot can be recomputed on the fly as a function of mouse speed 01:58:47 cpressey: Can you prepend "view-source:" to make them ignore as binary file? Some browser can do that. 02:00:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:00:03 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 02:00:18 How is a compiled sprite used and how the hotspot is recomputed like that? 02:00:45 zzo38: view-source: worked! you are my hero for tonight 02:02:21 a compiled sprite is just any code: the intention is that it draws a sprite at (x,y), but there is of course no good way to enforce that. likewise, the hotspot could be a function that... takes (x,y) and returns (xh,yh), i suppose 02:02:36 anyway i'm just being silly 02:03:05 i have to boot this recovery disc to see if i can get a windows bootloader back on this machine 02:03:23 will probably be back in a bit... unless something goes horribly wrong 02:03:34 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:05:07 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:09:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zulEMWj3sVA <-- best Ohhhhh ching chong ling long ting tong response ever 02:15:37 -!- cpressey has joined. 02:16:18 yay! installing ubuntu only confused windows, it did not destroy it. and the recovery disc knew what was wrong immediately and fixed it without hassle. 02:16:27 and now, back to ubuntu 02:16:30 -!- cpressey has quit (Client Quit). 02:20:14 -!- cpressey has joined. 02:22:11 -!- augur has joined. 02:23:09 speaking of text files that are binary files that are text files: it appears that it is not possible to open mycology.b98 in gedit. it just freaks out and asks you to reselect the encoding ad infinitum 02:29:39 (I implemented Befunge-93 in yoob and I'm looking to test it) 02:36:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:37:23 -!- augur has joined. 02:37:59 The reason I think of 65 bytes is two planes of 32 bytes each, 1 bit per pixel of 16x16, one plane for transparent/opaque, one plane for black/white; and one byte for the hotspot, which is 4 bits for X hotspot and 4 bits for Y hotspot. And then perhaps have 16 standard mouse icons. 02:38:28 running sanity.bf in Befunge-93 results in an infinite loop when the PC gets to the 'v' in the word 'invalid' 02:40:00 zzo38: having an entire plane for transparency makes it easier to implement, but it wastes a tiny bit of space (assuming transparent white and transparent black display the same) 02:40:16 i should read the log to find out what you're talking about 02:43:15 cpressey: Yes that would waste space but makes it simpler. And it does not waste too much space if they are only 16x16 icons and only 16 such icons are loaded at one time. 02:48:53 good ol' bef seems to fail mycology's test for Go West, which seems unlikely to be true 02:49:57 it probably loads the long lines wrong or something 02:57:24 sigh 03:00:36 http://sprunge.us/ICPT Facebook fun 03:03:34 oh, i think i see. if there are >80 characters on a line, the remainder get wrapped onto the next line. fun 03:11:10 -!- cheater99 has joined. 03:11:49 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:12:58 if i were king, all compiler error messages would contain the word 'somewhat' 03:13:34 foo.c:391: somewhat missing semicolon 03:14:59 yurf, it works now 03:25:12 Really, all error messages can be replaced with "I have no idea what the fuck is going on, but something is wrong here" 03:25:25 foo.c:391: I have no idea what the fuck is going on, but something is wrong here 03:25:31 First referenced in foo.h:32: I have no idea what the fuck is going on, but something is wrong here 03:59:16 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:00:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:06:00 zzo38: how are you planning to implement it? is this for Wayland, or X-windows, or whatever that is that was being discussed? 04:06:32 pikhq, I playe a Pokemon battle against my friend 04:07:50 Deewiant: not sure if you care, but: bef's # has different behavior depending if it's on the north or west vs the south or east edge. (wrapping is implementing differently for + and - directions) 04:16:32 fixing that 04:20:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:20:48 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:21:32 test case: 04:21:37 >>>>v 04:21:37 @0.v>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>># 04:21:37 Unknown command, try @list 04:21:40 #<<< @.1@ 04:22:42 bef now prints out '0 1 ', its previous incarnation (or running with the flag that enables backwards-compatible behavior) will just print '0 ' 04:25:43 cpressey: I do not know quite yet how I plan to implemented it, but probably a variant of Wayland. 04:40:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:55:59 -!- augur has joined. 04:57:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:59:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:59:45 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:11:10 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:13:42 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:13:48 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:15:40 -!- cheater99 has joined. 05:28:37 -!- ak4d7 has joined. 05:39:21 -!- ak4d7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:41:01 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:41:59 -!- wareya has joined. 05:54:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:54:43 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 05:54:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:56:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:56:56 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 06:09:20 alright then... new version of bef released, v2.22: http://catseye.tc/projects/bef/ 06:09:28 and with that, good night 06:09:31 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:13:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:15:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:17:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:41:58 -!- augur has joined. 07:22:06 Dang, it's weird out tonight. 07:22:58 Perigee at full moon is shockingly bright. 07:26:23 pikhq_: isnt it like 20% brighter? 07:26:26 something like that 07:26:28 Something. 07:26:42 The brightness is quite noticable. 07:26:59 The sky is blue. 07:36:46 cheese blue 07:38:57 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:40:32 I tried playing various raw picture files as raw audio files. 07:52:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:55:38 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:55:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:10 John Tyler, 10th president of the US, has 2 living *grandchildren*. 08:03:24 He was born in 1790. 08:11:08 Hrm. How odd would a case such as this be: "The Crown v. Her Majesty"? Is it even technically possible? 08:11:45 Well, *practically* it isn't, as the Queen could simply opt to exercise her ordinarily delegated authority as prosecutor in criminal cases. 08:22:51 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:24:20 -!- cal153 has joined. 08:38:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:40:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 08:44:32 Can you figure out these number sequences? 08:45:49 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:46:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:50:49 http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/textfile/miscellaneous/numseq.txt 09:04:10 oh! ohhh! 09:04:13 i know! 09:04:25 the next number in each of those sequences is 0, right? 09:05:46 ... 09:05:52 pikhq_: let's say there's a law set out by one of the previous bearers of the crown that is still in effect that the current queen breaks 09:06:19 * oerjan was more thinking about the queen getting multiple personalities, but... 09:06:25 pikhq_: and this law then means that people in the institution ("the crown") have to sue the person ("her majesty")? 09:09:34 -!- wth has joined. 09:10:53 -!- wth has left (?). 09:19:28 cheater99: No they arenot zero 09:19:49 Hmm.. Lagerholm estimate for APNIC jumped from 13th to 2nd July (WTF, it is that optimistic???). Huston estimate jumped from May 5th to April 30th. 09:23:17 APNIC relative allocations for last 30 days: 87.9%. ~7.3x ROW. 09:30:32 Time when APNIC relative allocations were <1x RoW was only few months ago. :-/ 09:34:02 All RIR allocation rates except APNIC are trending down. APNIC is rapidly shooting up, likely not decreasing until APNIC depletes. 09:36:34 It seems that the Huston estimate on RIPE NCC is overly pessimistic vs. recent events. 09:36:48 zzo38: there's no mathematical proof for that! 09:38:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:38:38 Of course, pretty much nothing can be predicted about what APNIC exhaustion will do to RIPE allocation rates. 09:39:29 And also to ARIN rates. 09:41:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:41:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 09:41:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:47:54 RIPE last 30 days allocations: 3 541 792 (0.211). RIPE has at least 2.87 blocks free (3.87 minus setaside). 10:13:42 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:19:55 cheater99: You are correct there are not mathematical proof. 10:21:01 How many patterns can this program make? http://sprunge.us/gDCA 10:24:54 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:40:33 zzo38: probably quite many, given it's nondeterministic. 10:56:53 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:58:32 -!- cheater99 has joined. 11:03:13 The initial state is 36 bits, but some states can be reached from other states, so you have to take that into consideration. 11:11:31 Looks like the evolution is time-reversible. 11:11:44 (Each state having unique precessor). 11:13:40 Eventually the screen goes black and it repeats. 11:18:30 (0,0,0,0) is part of cycle of length 3 52 255. 11:18:39 (0, 0, 0, 2) generates some huge cycle. 11:18:52 (or not). 11:19:49 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:19:59 1 337 908 11:20:54 What's POINT(X, Y)? 11:22:45 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:22:47 The color value of pixel (X,Y) in some BASICs at least. 11:23:24 Ah, it apparently cycles the colors then. 11:23:55 -!- cheater99 has joined. 11:24:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:43:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:47:16 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:47:27 -!- cheater00 has joined. 12:00:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:16:43 -!- asiekierka has joined. 12:22:12 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 12:31:22 okokokokokokokokoko 12:37:36 klop 12:37:40 :D 12:54:36 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:01:52 i'm bored :( 13:03:44 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 13:03:48 Ilari, what is ROW in the statement about APNIC above? 13:08:16 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:15:20 new textbook arrived yesterday, for the next course. Title sounds fun: "Real-Time Systems and Programming Languages" The subtitle less so: "Ada, Real-Time Java and C/Real-Time POSIX" 13:15:24 who the fuck invented "real-time java"!? 13:19:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:26:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:32:24 /r/esoteric has been banned. 13:32:25 HMMM. 13:33:37 lol 13:33:40 any relation to us? 13:33:56 was there an optbot there? 13:34:35 * oerjan wishes a certain person's add applied to his grudges and not just to his projects 13:34:50 Huh? 13:34:57 Add? 13:34:58 sorry, *ADD 13:35:14 is that the same thing now called ADHD? 13:35:26 i guess. 13:35:33 Oh, right. 13:35:40 it was in any case a joke designation, not a diagnosis 13:35:45 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:35:55 Yeah, I just parsed it as the word rather than the acronym. 13:36:12 is it just me or does ADA code look similar to Pascal code at a first glance? 13:36:21 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:36:37 Vorpal, Ada is a close descendent of Pascal. 13:36:43 Direct, even. 13:36:49 Phantom_Hoover, ah that would explain it 13:36:51 Phantom_Hoover, oh also: 13:36:56 new textbook arrived yesterday, for the next course. Title sounds fun: "Real-Time Systems and Programming Languages" The subtitle less so: "Ada, Real-Time Java and C/Real-Time POSIX" 13:36:56 who the fuck invented "real-time java"!? 13:37:13 i've had the same kind of dejavu when i read some gopher code lately 13:37:20 it's basically just haskell. 13:37:42 oh that gopher 13:37:58 cheater00, gopher the protocol? 13:38:24 i think the good parts of gopher basically merged back in haskell and gopher disappeared 13:38:27 *into 13:38:43 Gopher? 13:38:47 i think haskell is like a successor of gopher 13:38:53 and ghs is the gopher something something 13:39:03 no, wait 13:39:09 hugs is the something something gopher something 13:39:31 Phantom_Hoover: a lang. 13:39:37 yes, hugs changed from gopher to haskell at some point, but i think gopher was a haskell variant to start with 13:40:15 oh, i was told it was a predecessor 13:40:19 Phantom_Hoover, also this book seems to use bold for syntax highlight keywords in ADA and java code examples. But no syntax highlighting at all for C examples 13:40:20 "fun" 13:40:24 basically sort of parallel to miranda 13:40:27 Hugs is Haskell without the shouting at you when you get types wrong? 13:41:04 * oerjan googles 13:41:16 Phantom_Hoover: um hugs still requires correct types 13:41:46 ah, it's gofer 13:41:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gofer_(programming_language) 13:42:06 Yes, but I was under the impression that it didn't spit out incomprehensible type jargon when you got it wrong. 13:43:08 -!- Zuu has joined. 13:43:14 maybe not quite as much. 13:45:22 hey oerjan 13:45:37 what was that visual functional programming language for making music? 13:46:28 no idea 13:47:23 damn... i lost the link. 13:47:28 cheater00: i find that wikipedia article about gofer self-inconsistent about the history. but i _think_ gofer started as a haskell variant, did some things closer to miranda, invented several things that were later adopted by haskell, and was basically abandoned when hugs got advanced enough to support full haskell. 13:47:29 i think elliott posted it 13:47:38 this rather cheap digital watch keeps the time well... I haven't set it for two or three years (I rarely use it, I prefer my phone for checking the time), and it is less than 4 seconds off. 13:47:55 oerjan: aha 13:47:57 only off by an hour, so it is on DST likely 13:48:16 Vorpal: is it a radio clock maybe? 13:48:20 cheater00, nope 13:48:39 Vorpal: Rest of the World. 13:48:46 Ilari, aha 13:48:57 i have a vague recall that the Monad type class was first implemented in gofer 13:49:07 cheater00, basic three function ugly digital watch (time, alarm, stop watch) 13:49:27 oh and a button for backlight 13:49:35 bbl phone 13:49:46 Vorpal: my watch doesn't have radio in it, but it's still a radio clock 13:49:57 which just means it can be synced through radio, that's all 13:50:03 and what that article doesn't say is that haskell _did_ get monad comprehensions, then dropped them again, and is currently about to readd them as an option. 13:50:08 mine doesn't even seem to have alarm.. or deos it 13:50:38 oh, it does indeed 13:50:50 oerjan: how do monad comprehensions work at all? 13:52:09 cheater00: basically it works as syntactical sugar something like [x] = return x, [f x | x <- y] = y >>= f 13:52:25 um wait 13:52:37 that doesn't look right :X 13:52:42 [f x | x <- y] = y >>= \x -> return (f x) 13:53:12 cheater00: oh it works perfectly well and gives the result for lists 13:53:55 *the same result 13:57:43 Vorpal: my watch doesn't have radio in it, but it's still a radio clock <-- you are confusing two different "meanings" of radio here 13:57:49 or rather 13:57:52 you think I am 13:58:11 cheater00, I can assure you that this clock has no radio receiver 14:05:29 Vorpal, what are the two meanings you're nattering about? 14:05:58 If it's synced to an atomic clock, it definitely does have a radio receiver. 14:09:55 once upon a time, before such syncing was widespread, "radio clock" had a rather different meaning. i don't know what you kids call it these days. 14:10:08 AND GET OFF MY LAWN 14:10:25 If it's a clock with a radio attached, then Vorpal is an even bigger idiot than I though. 14:10:28 *thought 14:11:02 Phantom_Hoover, "my watch doesn't have radio in it" sound like he means "doesn't have a radio for listening to common broadcast" 14:11:04 yeah only idiots use clocks with radios attached 14:11:22 Phantom_Hoover, because if it is a radio clock then it certainly has a radio of some sort in it. 14:17:55 Vorpal: ok 14:19:09 oerjan, may I come onto your lawn? To me radio clock means the older meaning still 14:19:25 oerjan, and "radio synced clock" or such means the modern meaning 14:19:56 funnily enough this clock is made in a small village that has a technical university and like 10 houses 14:19:57 i'm sorry, but you're not senile enough 14:20:02 and a technology park 14:20:10 it's on the other end of germany 14:20:31 and i worked in the exact same street it was made on, a year ago. 14:20:37 what are the odds of that happening? 14:20:45 oerjan, aww, I don't remember what I had for lunch today even 14:20:47 1/9865060 14:21:01 (disclaimer: this is because I haven't eaten yet) 14:21:09 ...i seee 14:21:50 cheater00, did you buy it in that village? 14:22:02 no, i bought it in here because i liked the look of it 14:22:10 i didn't even know that company existed there 14:22:46 the village was so small i had to live in an adjacent city and commute (two s-bahn stations) to work there 14:22:47 :D 14:23:06 cheater00, s-bahn? 14:23:12 yea like a tram 14:23:19 imagine a bus but on rails. 14:23:28 I know what a tram is 14:23:30 cheater00: do you have over a thousand clocks? 14:23:34 no 14:23:53 it's like my first ever OWN bought alarm clock 14:24:05 perhaps except for a mechanic one i'd had ages ago 14:24:15 that i think ended up breaking 14:24:17 cheater00, what about ones you got as presents? 14:24:22 no 14:24:32 i had like 4 in the course of my life. 14:24:34 i propose we accept god 14:24:43 oklopol, I suggest FSM instead 14:24:52 it is much more plausible 14:24:54 finite state machine? 14:25:09 dammit, oklopol, i was going to say that 14:25:11 i do believe in those 14:25:19 oerjan: erm, that's not what he meant? 14:25:20 :D 14:25:34 almost certainly not 14:25:35 what else does that mean 14:25:57 Fussili Salsicca Maccaroni 14:26:19 is that the flying spaghetti monster? 14:26:23 oh. 14:26:25 *salsiccia 14:26:26 FSM 14:26:37 I suggest FSM - the universe is a finite state machine, only the number of states is far too much for us to comprehend and notice 14:26:42 that actually already directly is that 14:26:49 no, not some spaghetti monster crap 14:26:52 finite state machines! 14:27:08 asiekierka: i've had that idea before 14:27:20 that idea is old 14:27:26 also probably right 14:27:57 who cares what the universe is, i just wanna know what the deal is with this clock thing 14:28:12 what happened to it 14:33:35 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 14:36:20 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:37:51 oklopol, you will never know*! MWHAHAHAHAHA 14:37:55 * Unless you check logs. 14:50:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:57:15 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:57:20 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:01:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:01:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 15:01:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:18:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:18:59 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:53:56 asiekierka: i've had that idea before ← isn't that just finite space with some additional caveats? 15:54:17 i'd call it practically infinite but theoretically finite space machine 15:54:37 "Practically infinite"? 15:58:59 maybe it's just an infinite state machine? 15:59:20 http://gcc.gnu.org/viewcvs/trunk/gcc/reload.c?view=markup 15:59:26 MY EYES HAVE SEEN THE GLORY 16:13:10 Phantom_Hoover: I'm not getting why that file is so fascinating :P 16:13:46 Have you seen the HIDEOUSNESS? 16:15:44 See also http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/reload 16:19:03 "Reload is the GCC equivalent of Satan." lol 16:21:12 Also, http://sprunge.us/ICPT :P 16:24:28 Who's ---? 16:33:00 [18:18:26] hello is there any practical consequence of the fact that irrational numbers exist? 16:33:00 [18:18:27] or let me rephrase: hello is there any practical consequence of the "fact" that irrational numbers "exist"? 16:33:07 why did i ever leave #math 16:40:32 oklopol: because of TRWBW? 16:42:09 what's wrong with TRWBW 16:42:43 What's TRWBW? 16:42:49 he's this annoying jackass 16:43:02 everyone hates him because he's a dick to everyone 16:43:26 cheater00: could you please answer my question? 16:43:41 oklopol: he's terrible! 16:43:48 eh? 16:43:58 oklopol: i didn't see your question because you didn't highlight me btw 16:44:14 oklopol: well, when i stopped going to #math he would have those fits all the time 16:44:33 sort of like but not as bad as ... another person. 16:44:50 i see what you mean 16:45:04 i have learned a lot of life skills from TRWBW 16:45:18 are you joking me? 16:45:30 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:45:36 no 16:45:41 really? 16:45:49 like what skills? 16:46:19 my opinions on math are to a large extent the same as his, strictly speaking i dunno if he's really influenced them 16:46:26 also he really makes you think about what you say 16:46:40 because otherwise he'll ignore you forever 16:46:46 the only way in which that was true for me was "i wish i hadn't come to #math to talk about this" 16:46:47 and he's a really nice guy so who'd want that 16:47:08 are we talking about the same TRWBW? 16:47:21 the way i took his punishment was "indeed, i should've been less of a retard" 16:47:23 ok i guess there aren't two of him 16:47:49 two of him existing would probably just collapse the universe forever 16:48:23 oklopol: well i understand what you mean with the "life skills" bit 16:49:15 everyone's got experience with a pompous asshole (sorry about the wording), except you only need a few in your life to learn how to be nice to people, and i've had my fair share before i'd become.. exposed to him 16:49:42 so i guess i could've liked him the way you do, had i made contact with him 10 years earlier! 16:50:17 right, i like him because he told me i was a fucking retard once when i totally was and didn't realize it 16:50:27 funny how our views diverge very much yet seem to be part of one bigger mechanism if you think about it 16:50:29 i'm sure everyone would do the same 16:50:55 i dunno, the only thing i've experienced from his side was aggresive negativity 16:51:01 but again, ymmv 16:51:08 hmm 16:51:39 well he is pretty aggressive and negative, i don't actually like talking to him :D 16:51:51 me either 16:51:57 hence i stopped hanging out in #math 16:52:21 and like, when i first started going there the place was overrun by like first-year CS freshmen 16:52:22 i just hang out in math because it's fun to watch people being clueless 16:52:50 so you'd go there and ask how to prove something about real numbers and they'd say write a program that loops over numbers. or something dumb like that. 16:53:13 i can rarely help with any interesting questions, just the "if x = 2, does that also mean all the 2's of the world are suddenly x?" 16:53:18 or you'd ask how to find the limit to a series and they'd give you a truncated decimal expansion. 16:53:39 haha 16:53:41 well yea 16:53:55 but tbh i enjoyed efnet #math very much more than the place here 16:54:01 and i don't mean i help with those either, i mostly watch others try and fail 16:54:21 learned loads about how to approach maths from people like zeno, Polytope, landen, etc 16:54:38 i just know Polytope 16:54:44 they also helped me a lot 16:54:48 and really just the nick 16:54:50 polytope is a good dude 16:55:05 i have that impression, dunno where it comes from 16:55:07 landen is like this old guy on tenure in mit 16:55:20 he's so old he remembers when time begun 16:55:32 but i don't think he's as old as glk lol 16:55:36 have you ever met glk? 16:55:39 no 16:55:47 i'm not sure if the nick is right, i think so 16:56:23 http://grahamkendall.net/Main_Files/All%20URL.txt 16:56:37 he'd idle in the channel 16:56:54 and like every time someone would mention anything about orbits or calculators he'd immediately spring up and spam his website url 16:57:14 and then engage into an in-depth conversation about the wonderful features of the TI-83 16:57:29 grahamkendall.net < picture 16:57:33 click. the. picture. 16:58:20 what about it 16:58:30 that's him 16:58:33 he has funny hair 16:58:33 :D 16:59:13