< 1301184327 398012 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1301185203 438905 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-170.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1301185208 429448 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-237.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301186997 789 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1301187224 907225 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any one left? < 1301187261 767467 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is about to make food
< 1301187323 817160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you going to eat? Paper or plastic?^W^W^W < 1301187490 928931 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh this article I'm reading reminds me of what I regard as one of the most delusional programming-related comments I have ever heard, which basically said that if C# ever goes out of style, it is easy to auto-translate the program into something else. :-) < 1301187526 144869 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 QUIT :Quit: Goodbye, cruel world! < 1301188134 571508 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: coarse bread slices, one with bacon/liver paté, one with blue cheese, and 1/2 with chicken/curry baguette spread. and a cup of orange juice. < 1301188354 181560 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION basks in saved daylight
< 1301188450 354760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like daylight saving time. It doesn't save daylight; it just mixes up the time so that it doesn't match. < 1301188563 389606 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1301188693 230931 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301190310 539918 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1301190455 591933 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1301191126 350391 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1301191334 493744 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1301195773 319531 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1301196076 183139 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301200425 425300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1301200428 899812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't resist, < 1301200430 636830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.basis.netii.net/ursala/links.html < 1301200434 765668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ursala's links page links to esolang < 1301200438 515923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1301200520 426484 :lediable!~chacrasse@212.203.98.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301200847 279359 :lediable!~chacrasse@212.203.98.114 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1301203114 391939 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1301203840 134021 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World!?! < 1301204628 505253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed RFC1 has some errors in it. < 1301204981 125305 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they call it a request for comment < 1301204987 598803 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to a Stone Tablet < 1301204988 421836 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1301205727 294718 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Some of the diagrams are mistyped. < 1301205764 66934 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I downloaded it and it had no carriage returns, but I think RFC format is supposed to be printable text? It does have form feeds. < 1301205971 25074 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote the program ANYTODVI it can print out this RFC by using a file with printer codes with Meta Printer Language. After inserting carriage returns it print correctly. (But it still has the errors in the ASCII diagrams) < 1301206210 72870 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-175.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301206241 516719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-237.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1301206750 407670 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1301208606 823977 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-122.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301208622 641531 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-152-175.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1301209451 266859 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-245-122.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301209680 601360 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1301210149 636737 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301211464 459445 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1301212253 704982 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301212259 512962 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.49.11 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301212456 966889 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1301218127 702008 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-84.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301218956 832028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301218957 75759 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301218992 818782 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1301219142 860839 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301219596 755617 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1301219609 738256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1301220942 823583 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1301220943 74842 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1301220943 279241 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1301220979 893276 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1301220998 899791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301221146 719214 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1301221147 109117 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1301221700 842447 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1301221726 289878 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1301222277 617125 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1301222511 808097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301224243 935843 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1301224846 823656 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301225354 99238 :cheater-!~cheater@g228062042.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1301226210 291116 :cheater99!~cheater@e181137110.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1301226368 123020 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301226565 461769 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1301228523 668313 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301228554 57127 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301228580 663895 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1301228657 414660 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1301229722 102398 :cheater99!~cheater@e181137110.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1301230599 423062 :cheater-!~cheater@g224200179.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1301233188 132867 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1301233217 994876 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1301233449 296328 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301234266 47977 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1301234438 68569 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1301234999 168605 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1301234999 373029 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1301234999 373192 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1301235145 556686 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1301235151 233359 :cheater-!~cheater@g224200179.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301235291 547852 :cheater-!~cheater@g231048169.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1301236737 769812 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1301236738 318480 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if the list is in random order, like poor ehird here < 1301236743 239902 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1301236770 896847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey That data "scientist" somehow got an article into the Scientific American. < 1301236771 102930 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1301237275 73602 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1301237275 466722 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1301237275 671711 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1301237433 540020 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1301237525 863055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what "scientist"? < 1301237536 831478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Phantom_Hoover: if the list is in random order, like poor ehird here < 1301237537 646467 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget her name. < 1301237537 851727 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: " too much free time, fine :) i think that sicp is http://mitpress.mit.edu/ sicp/, the texinfo at http://www.neilvandyke.org/ sicp-texi/ ( texinfo) and http://twb.ath.cx/twb/ canon/ sicp/ ( html) < 1301237539 836030 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :337) Phantom_Hoover: if the list is in random order, like poor ehird here < 1301237556 326062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, some fraud I guess, considering the quotes. < 1301237569 790071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how do you science on data? < 1301237589 145086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no clue what that would even mean. Perhaps information theory? < 1301237635 926377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is mathematics. < 1301237661 15715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or bad translation. In Swedish for example, computer science is called datavetenskap (data here comes from dator, the Swedish word for computer) < 1301237863 4393 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tietojenkäsittelytiede" ("the science of processing information") in Finnish. < 1301237910 707955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1301237935 918398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't really work for the purpose of bad translation however < 1301237944 43330 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, but I doubt it's that. < 1301237954 889559 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Data science" seems to be a somewhat hip neologism. < 1301238000 629523 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Data science requires skills ranging from traditional computer science to mathematics to art. Describing the data science group he put together at Facebook (possibly the first data science group at a consumer-oriented web property), Jeff Hammerbacher said --" and so on, from google-hits. < 1301238013 183511 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1301238013 573387 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-4.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1301238013 778777 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1301238183 117570 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1301238272 333776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what do they do? < 1301238356 165071 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not entirely sure, but it seems to be rather close to data mining, but also information visualization and such. < 1301238366 218779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1301238575 901636 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1301238649 546688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1301238658 231556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(data scientists are like fizzie employed to do his #esoteric log stuff) < 1301238660 905512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a terrible habit < 1301238664 975443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"I really must stop it" < 1301238734 238680 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1301238745 775673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with oerjan.... Worst implementation of channel avoidance ever < 1301238775 679575 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lure of #esoteric, it is impossible to resist, it seems. < 1301238780 58954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1301238828 963171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, speaking of you doing your log stuff... Can you plot channel activity showing how much it declined since elliott decided to mostly leave it? < 1301238846 5086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume more than just his part < 1301238852 282800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since others would be less active < 1301238862 790793 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss elliott < 1301238885 494037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iconmaster, you did. By several minutes ;P < 1301238895 321185 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw this... < 1301238970 260439 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301239000 736402 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our channel activity has quite a large variance, so I'm not sure how easy it is to see trends. < 1301239005 242683 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did he leave, anyway? < 1301239019 176775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some days or weeks ago < 1301239052 976347 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, here's messages/day from my own logs: http://p.zem.fi/donv < 1301239186 391614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is a clear longer term drop there for a while < 1301239282 897300 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same numbers after filtering out elliott-messages: http://p.zem.fi/donv2 < 1301239296 142423 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1301239316 199772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it doesn't surprise me that goes down as well. < 1301239351 147501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussion and not monologue and so on < 1301239486 148886 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, or bad translation. In Swedish for example, computer science is called datavetenskap (data here comes from dator, the Swedish word for computer) < 1301239496 538268 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty sure dator comes from data < 1301239523 964261 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the first is a portmanteau and the second is a genuine latin word < 1301239565 739874 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well actually it may be a genuine latin word too, but i think that use is still a portmanteau. < 1301239601 48243 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in norwegian the word is "datamaskin") < 1301239637 141285 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's a silly ad. It says (in Finnish by geolocation, I guess, but translated) "Congratulations! Your IP address has been chosen in your city!! You have 2 minutes to claim your reward! T:TT [Click here]", and T:TT is a countdown from 2:00 down, with the last ten seconds in red; then when it reaches 0:00, it stays there for ~10 seconds, then restarts again from 2:00. < 1301239639 125303 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1301239647 997274 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be very lucky to win over and over again. < 1301239648 308707 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the genuine latin word "dator" would mean one who gives) < 1301239651 286504 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dator is a portmanteuish thing < 1301239661 435111 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of data and various latinish words ending in -or < 1301239695 959507 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish, computer science is also called informationsbehandling in some universities < 1301239696 680337 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: well that's what i'm saying < 1301239713 284595 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :our university called it informatikk < 1301239713 558871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll behandling informations. < 1301239728 289873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : i am pretty sure dator comes from data <-- yes indeed < 1301239744 54137 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that information ~= data < 1301239760 667763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but I'm saying datavetenskap comes from dator, not from data. Likely. < 1301239763 17044 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :datavetenskap can easily be construed without involving any dator in how it' been formed < 1301239783 589297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, yes it could. But since datavetenskap is about computers... < 1301239784 413188 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unlikely. since norwegian does similar things and doesn't _have_ the word dator. < 1301239788 237453 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... < 1301239789 537861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1301239801 781049 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers is to computer science what telescopes is to astronomy < 1301239804 614412 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ never forget that < 1301239826 645748 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/is/are < 1301239833 124154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk, good point < 1301239836 296833 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/\// to you. < 1301239856 149109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also: < 1301239866 604184 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The g, yes. < 1301239874 232884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\\//&g/ < 1301239876 432042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1301239877 517306 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :datavetenskap is about how to do things with data, essentially. < 1301239881 525952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :corrected your regex < 1301239885 318042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that corrected his < 1301239911 952879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1301239915 170587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i'm being rubbish, < 1301239923 808168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever fucked with gcc spec files < 1301239930 185921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I looked at them < 1301239939 677074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I went and hid under the be < 1301239940 820703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bed* < 1301239955 765279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look monstrous < 1301239956 836447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, I can dump them, modify them, and get gcc to use them < 1301239965 189804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no idea what it's _generated_ from initially < 1301239970 129147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to change /that/ < 1301239972 813778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to change default libc path) < 1301239977 202141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and make -static default) < 1301239986 91612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1301240000 679647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect ais523 is the right person to ask < 1301240006 548451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with gcc-bf < 1301240016 741977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because he wrote a backend doesn't mean he knows all the other crap, gcc has like 50000000000000000 lines of code < 1301240037 939310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you got a few too many zeros there, but yeah < 1301240048 606198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatedly, gcc 3.4.6 has no dependencies (well apart from libc) and builds in a minute or two. compare with 4.5. < 1301240067 148712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bootstrapping non-glibc libc. the most painless way is to bootstrap via gcc 3.) < 1301240072 619586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have a nice computer then. I'd say 5-7 minutes for 3.4.6 < 1301240087 643030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, point is I immediately expected it had errored out when it finished < 1301240094 109689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :after having spent all day building gcc 4.5.2 over and over again < 1301240124 323235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 4.3 is probably the best in the 4.x series. Either that or 4.4 < 1301240165 135980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i would just stick with gcc 3 if i could maintain the delusion that it'd compile anything. < 1301240176 89126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are the spec files generated during compilation? Sure they aren't just included? < 1301240192 730344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i have find(1)'d the whole source tree for any file with name *spec* < 1301240196 694223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just h files and c files < 1301240199 94115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey it can compile cfunge! < 1301240200 606230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checked them all, no generator < 1301240219 497759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, grep -R . < 1301240245 849777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be worth a try < 1301240254 400012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/stage2/gcc-3.4.6$ grep -r '*version:' . < 1301240254 675581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@elliott-MacBookAir:~/stage2/gcc-3.4.6$ < 1301240266 175120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is generated, it's in a file without "spec" in the name, and in a totally different format < 1301240280 586669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is instead cobbled together by code. this is just a hunch though. < 1301240282 462788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could be that the : is added separately from the string : < 1301240287 558555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1301240293 206876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, not as a string < 1301240293 960893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err.. < 1301240297 738891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the string version < 1301240298 266086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a bit about gcc backends, but not frontends < 1301240301 18819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1301240302 862839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sets the variables internally based on configuration and the like, I suspect < 1301240306 114925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only parses if you give it a file < 1301240315 409434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ has the ability to dump < 1301240322 332446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, somewhere it must do the dumping? < 1301240329 316569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1301240333 730547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the dumping isn't what i want to change :) < 1301240343 599909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and what about where it can load dumped spec files? < 1301240354 369634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumper + parser for data structure. < 1301240359 447887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data structure initialised manually w/ code. < 1301240362 248448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := my suspicion < 1301240369 307927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, I remember gentoo used to patch the spec file... Don't know if they still do... < 1301240379 557424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just do that, but it seems awfully ugly. < 1301240384 689853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it looks distinctly generated < 1301240411 350934 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1301240415 528496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well patch the internal variables being set then? < 1301240417 263235 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : datavetenskap can easily be construed without involving any dator in how it' been formed <-- although it would probably be as accurate as astronomy before telescopes too < 1301240429 395813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know where they're set. also that sounds even uglier :) < 1301240453 493795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well if your suspicion is right I doubt there is much choice < 1301240523 834282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a pessimist, i'm hoping my suspicion is wrong. < 1301240549 509950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't you mean optimist? < 1301240563 622737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1301240568 333529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an optimist would predict that it is perfect. < 1301240639 618417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1301240750 540663 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets fire to elliott's optimist strawman
< 1301240888 451167 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I agree with oerjan.... Worst implementation of channel avoidance ever < 1301240900 689689 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been trying to resist suggesting a betting pool < 1301240910 293945 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or poll < 1301240963 269495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD < 1301241092 141694 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1301241114 230431 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly because that might make him try harder) < 1301241300 853613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I would think he is back for a while now < 1301241317 915527 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sssh! < 1301241354 741468 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that shhh < 1301241372 928296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that sshc? (The bastard!) < 1301241383 448928 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives elliott a welcome back swat -----###
< 1301241385 816099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is one thing to try. It involves gdb however. Assuming that gcc uses a generated spec file, it would have to load it during normal operation right? If it doesn't, then the loader won't be called. Set a breakpoint in some important part of the loader and check if it is ever called. < 1301241396 846341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just haven't devoted the energy to typing /part yet, also i look lagged < 1301241413 765762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really i'm waiting for someone who knows gcc to magically prance in < 1301241418 433560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear this is where all the gcc experts hang out < 1301241424 35292 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, will we be thrown back into despair again! < 1301241432 746358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gdb on gcc, yes, that sounds fun, i bet gcc doesn't run 3985734958347958345 lines just to dump out spec file < 1301241438 200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw this is in a chroot < 1301241438 689621 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, #gcc! < 1301241441 750508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think gdb might give up < 1301241448 361779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:P if it wasn't obvious.) < 1301241451 744605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: modifying spec files is unsupported for some incomprehensible reason :) < 1301241453 237870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay do it with printf debugging < 1301241471 651792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, make it look innocent. < 1301241475 901351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: or bug people in here until it gets so annoying that someone figures out the solution just to make me shut up < 1301241476 532774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and gdb works fine in chroots as long as /proc is mounted < 1301241684 152144 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301242349 241249 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1301242692 152949 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1301243009 24328 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Quit: Daemon escaped from pentagram < 1301243221 244899 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1301243480 650719 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1301243497 294093 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again couldn't help myself, had to use Google chart thing to plot those previous numbers: http://p.zem.fi/donv3 < 1301243542 230899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not graphviz? < 1301243556 221799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because graphviz plots graphs, not charts? < 1301243578 261701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1301243582 370905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I meant gnuplot < 1301243590 338587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I confuse their names all the time -_- < 1301243649 438864 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason, really; mangling the data into a Google chart API URL was probably approximately as bothersome as writing the corresponding gnuplot datafile + command would've been. < 1301243652 636818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D size column is distinctive enough < 1301243665 98854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also gcharts are prettier :P < 1301243694 531452 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I could probably get quite similar output from gnuplot, it just always requires fiddling. < 1301244028 472658 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301244219 436385 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1301244777 770407 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301244802 926951 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1301245089 161240 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301245101 25153 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare http://p.zem.fi/donv3 vs. http://zem.fi/~fis/donv.png -- lines are a bit less thick, and to get anti-aliased fonts I'd need to give a path to a .ttf file in some complicated manner (or use the "pngcairo" terminal, but I don't know how to do custom colors there), but other than that they're quite close. < 1301245304 593180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the gnuplot antialiasing is better < 1301245316 292110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for text that is < 1301245326 506318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :less blurry < 1301245340 463770 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because it doesn't have any. < 1301245346 129639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1301245606 152829 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1301246061 240425 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1301246233 265653 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1301246401 387110 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301246651 793857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1301246726 354297 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301247881 318571 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1301248819 990869 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott, incidentally, I started my explorations again after getting bored of the Himalayas. < 1301248822 781295 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :338) elliott, incidentally, I started my explorations again after getting bored of the Himalayas. < 1301248827 382685 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301248874 387464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1301249674 78840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of daylight saving time, make something else: At sunrise the time is "I /". At sunset the time is "/ I". Is OK with you? < 1301249944 707166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced I understand how that works < 1301249985 471711 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what you're talking about, but in the past it was common to measure time by dividing the interval between sunrise and sunset into a constant number of hours < 1301249994 482109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How it works is you do not need to keep changing the day for when daylight saving time is, because it is always at sunrise/sunset, no exceptions. < 1301250028 262307 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there's a big mountain to the east of you, so sunrise comes later? < 1301250051 713652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would still have the 24-hour clock too, going from "00:00J" to "23:59J" (or Z if you want the same time everywhere) < 1301250075 949733 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does J stand for Jupiter < 1301250085 287479 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. J stands for local time. < 1301250094 507390 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Z for Zeus? < 1301250119 921392 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Z stands for GMT/UTC/Zulu time. < 1301250163 108521 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: And I am not sure what happen if there is the mountain. Don't they count sunrise by the horizon though? I don't know? < 1301250244 914454 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I really want is for the value of a second to vary depending on the season. That helps a lot with organizing timetables. "We'll have a one-hour meeting. No, wait, that'll be in February, let's make it a two-hour meeting, that should be about an hour." < 1301250290 286327 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will also vary depending on the latitude < 1301250312 826293 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why? That doesn't seem very good..... < 1301250318 192576 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We'll be having a one-hour meeting (1.5 hours in Canada)" < 1301250321 488646 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: This is /your idea/. < 1301250387 79910 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It isn't my idea for hours or seconds or anything like that to vary at any time. < 1301250419 927838 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think time should be absolute, everywhere < 1301250433 634592 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to achieve that we might have to accelerate the entire universe to the speed of light < 1301250441 392457 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems worth it, no? < 1301250456 750688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time cannot be absolute, spacetime is relative. < 1301250475 946445 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Then your idea is to have a rather arbitrary symbol meaning "sunrise" and another one meaning "sunset". But we already have these symbols, they're "sunrise" and "sunset". < 1301250481 178451 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't mean we cannot use the same units everywhere. < 1301250538 784933 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: These symbols mean something different. Where during the daylight hours, we have a roman numeral followed by a fraction (in normal digits, with / for zero and 1/2 for one half, 3/4 for three quarter), in night hour is other way around. < 1301250869 184261 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the roman numeral indicates what? < 1301250876 127864 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the fraction indicates what, for that matter? < 1301250922 102759 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know the units yet. < 1301251111 921288 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know if they should be measured in hours, or in something else. < 1301251130 581999 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: we already have that < 1301251134 734116 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called Newfoundland < 1301251159 505524 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pooppy: ... huh? < 1301251319 421917 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What does Newfoundland have to do with it? < 1301251771 30181 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody with a medium-profile website familiar with those persistent semi-spam link exchange emails? < 1301251780 382079 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got one saying he'd send me a hat in return for a link :P < 1301251784 134086 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually tempted :P < 1301251983 114674 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, do it and then make it nofollow? < 1301252049 729413 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul. < 1301252076 472368 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make it nonclickable. just plaintext < 1301252091 300720 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"copy and paste this if yoj want to go look at some shit" < 1301252108 685536 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be for Google rankings, not human clicks. < 1301252136 102163 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively I could just put it there, wait for my hat, then remove it :P < 1301252143 335293 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1301252233 480548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it really clear, "someone sent me a hat for this link" < 1301252247 309336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the underline's going to be stripped by the +c mode, I assume?) < 1301252289 364123 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I agree, write that on there. < 1301252553 813380 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH BTW GUYS: libc.so auction starts in five hours; if you haven't donated, now's a great time! < 1301252583 198208 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I wish I knew where my debit card is. < 1301252794 526102 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a part of something I was testing, I had successfully converted RFC1 to DVI format without using TeX. Although when I downloaded it the carriage returns were missing and it came out with only the first line correct and the others too far to the right. When I added the carriage returns then it came out correct. < 1301252809 132034 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises that he'd never pay £10 for an email address under normal circumstances.
< 1301252839 115019 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not need or want any email address. < 1301252853 819006 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure zzo38 isn't a Markov chain bot? < 1301252881 132929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1301252889 33124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was fed with zzo38ese as the seed information < 1301252902 165647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume zzo38 has his own competitive protocol with email < 1301252932 566526 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be something like glados then. < 1301252935 171072 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faulty, and insane. < 1301252957 264248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually I simply do not use email. Knuth stopped using email first, but I did not learn that until after I stopped using email. < 1301252976 658854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his secretary uses email, and relays important announcements to him < 1301253031 823633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a letter to him using paper mail instead. As it turned out I could get it delivered by someone I know who happened to be going to that area for business purposes, so I did not need a stamp. < 1301253074 902871 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does zzo38 have... wait, he *does* have his own version of logic. < 1301253105 518841 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not a consistent system either. < 1301253152 130056 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, I present to you http://esolangs.org/wiki/TNTNT < 1301253256 368957 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders, futilely, why he calls modus ponens "Rule of Detachment".
< 1301253286 606064 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Because Hofstadter called it that. < 1301253655 159069 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :After looking at all the VPS providers, I'm tempted to buy in to one of the super-cheap ones (like $20/yr) just to see how bad it is :P < 1301253866 644481 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION injects zzo38 with estrogen
< 1301253869 266801 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1301253875 237021 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's use zzo38 as a test subject! < 1301253974 428317 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot inject me with anything, because I am too far away < 1301254055 862793 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, what is it with you and oestrogen? < 1301254225 978845 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-25-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1301254226 367893 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-25-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1301254226 574789 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1301254404 419035 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1301254501 424107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh elliott left again < 1301254699 913461 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.118.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1301254851 624342 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301254985 424263 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-25-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1301254985 701783 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-25-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1301254985 907761 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1301255139 533325 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be a useful machine command to have the INTERCAL select operator as well as its opposite command (the unselect operator)? < 1301255208 156981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is unselect unambiguous? < 1301255225 957437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :select would be useful, though, I think < 1301255232 774421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, if all the extra bits are set to zero. < 1301255247 35516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that'd be so useful < 1301255254 317683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a command to do arbitrary permutations on bits would be better < 1301255283 106447 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, maybe some command can be made something like that. < 1301255432 549912 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you think it would be done, what way of making such things would be best? < 1301255519 162111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1301255658 666054 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much space and how much time needed for hardware implementations of different thing compares, such as addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, LFSR, NAND, XOR, etc? < 1301255736 15732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFSR? < 1301255761 902408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NAND is probably the simplest one in CMOS < 1301255764 826338 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear feedback shift register < 1301255768 51648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1301255870 838052 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Perhaps NAND is the simplest one in CMOS, but how to the others compare? (Both in space and in time) And is there other implementation other than CMOS depend which ones are more energy efficient or whatever are used in modern computers (which I don't know)? < 1301255895 669761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMOS is the most energy efficient I know of < 1301255938 449913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh, sub is basically add but negating value first < 1301255940 196525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK. But still, how to the other things I listed compares? Like, how does LFSR compare with arithmetic? How does AND compare with OR and XOR? etc < 1301255975 794271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, too complicated to explain since I'm going to bed shortly. I suggest consulting a text book on digital logic. < 1301255989 12894 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And yes I know how subtract/add works like that, I have written programs in INTERCAL to do addition and subtraction, so I would have figured out these things. < 1301255993 872331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: arithmetic's tricky, e.g. there are several versions of addition, some better in time and some better in space < 1301256021 867666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, generally you use full adders with some carry forwarding, no? < 1301256068 406608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for logic, in CMOS NAND/NOR/NOT are equally easy, AND/OR have twice the space and time cost, XOR has something like three times the space cost and twice the time cost but I can't remember exactly < 1301256110 363191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with different synthesis methods it might work differently, e.g. I think there are TTL versions where NAND is easier than NOR with typical logic levels (unlike CMOS, TTL has asymmetrical levels) < 1301256133 417872 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how does addition compare to multiplication, and how does addition compare to LFSR, and how does addition and LFSR compare to an increment or decrement counter? < 1301256139 544889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :TTL wastes power though afaik < 1301256157 28923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, multiplication is way worse < 1301256187 641435 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By how much? < 1301256192 523905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, several times < 1301256194 89870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about LFSR. probably easier than addition. < 1301256217 970920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as no clue how inc/dec compare to addition. Slightly easier I'd guess < 1301256375 731434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much efficient would a computer be if LFSR was used for instruction counter (and also for a few other things) instead of increment? And if addition was not normally used for indexing arrays and stuff, but only sometimes when necessary? And also if there was other operations, such as INTERCAL select? And so on? < 1301256410 951326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1301256416 528897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that even work? < 1301256418 179010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be less efficient with LFSR for increment, because even though it's an easier operation, CPU time is completely irrelevant in modern computers < 1301256425 333002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because memory bandwidth is a much larger issue < 1301256432 617909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is that too < 1301256442 225639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the memory wouldn't easily be able to pick up the necessary instructions in LFSR order < 1301256450 816220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're trying to optimise the wrong thing < 1301256475 940875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, there are slower components in a CPU than the IP. < 1301256490 202147 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK NAND and NOR are both equally simple in CMOS. Both are 4 transistors one deep. < 1301256492 746576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have so much happening on one cycle < 1301256503 563242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: indeed, that's what I said isn't it? < 1301256520 577007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, indeed < 1301256532 904558 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, NOT is bit simpler than NAND/NOR (2 transistors one deep). < 1301256544 400315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, I missed that < 1301256556 281405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's what I said to. I just took them from zzo3's list. NOT and NOR weren't listed there < 1301256565 904856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so NAND was the simplest on the list < 1301256578 356411 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea would be if you have your program loops stored to the microcode so less memory access is needed? < 1301256637 839270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPUs try to do that sort of thing automatically nowadays, it's what cache is for < 1301256654 672419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to do it by hand rather than automatically, it's better to use an entirely different architecture < 1301256675 449170 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of entirely different architecture? < 1301256870 763867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with many more ALUs < 1301256880 906609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can take advantage of how much faster they are than memory < 1301256891 102743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it also has to do arithmetic and memory activity at the same time < 1301256977 650261 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... How many classical CMOS gates with n inputs (all significant) there are? For 1 input, there is 1 (NOT). For 2 there are 2 (NAND and NOR), For 3 there are at least 8. < 1301257052 732481 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1301257302 913206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, define significant < 1301257311 862162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and afaik NAND is universal, no? < 1301257360 718013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1301257374 943304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just that, it's constant-time universal < 1301257385 439356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm that means? < 1301257407 965420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that you can do any finite state combinatorial circuit with NAND gates stacked just 2 deep < 1301257411 364011 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, no inputs that are completely ignored. < 1301257457 246352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1301257468 235382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about AND and OR then for 2 inputs? < 1301257481 132194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also XOR < 1301257497 652578 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no AND nor OR CMOS gate (implementing those would require 2 gates). < 1301257497 860024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, are those not classical? < 1301257538 37017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, there also the identity one for one input < 1301257597 145229 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's no buffer gate. CMOS tends to invert the value in each step. < 1301257652 613098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, there is the straight wire < 1301257689 680946 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abstract interpratation. What is number of trees with each node labeled using one of n labels, each label used at least once and trees equivalent if for every subset of labels, there is path from root to leaf using only those labels in both or in neither. < 1301257799 190614 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. NAND corresponds to two edges (labeled A and B) one after another. NOR would be two edges (A and B) in parallel. < 1301257829 514432 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AB and {A,B} < 1301257894 470097 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 3-label ones are ABC, {A,B,C}, A{B,C}, B{A,C}, C{A,B}, {AB,C}, {AC,B} and {BC,A}. < 1301257945 439690 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1301257965 426943 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1301257984 991127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1301258115 280719 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also equal to number of boolean functions with n variables present, only using AND and OR as logical operations. < 1301258133 552358 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In INTERCAL, although there is no command for arithmetic, some things still use counting such as RESUME and FORGET, and STASH stacks. Could a variant of INTERCAL be made that works so that an implementation does not need to have any arithmetic or counting in it? < 1301258210 857744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1301259556 593282 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301259581 873299 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@209.150.235.10 QUIT :Quit: ISCOM W00T < 1301259585 692460 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1301259659 117191 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1301260616 991547 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-84.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301262087 909133 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely there must be some package that provides a /usr/sbin/sendmail-compatible interface without being a whole fekking MTA. < 1301262107 324179 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want is "I know how to look up MX records, connect to an SMTP server, and send mail" < 1301262257 130157 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Write one if such thing does not yet exist. < 1301262287 642899 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will do that with my infinite free time. < 1301262602 726021 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There is "connect to a fixed SMTP server" sendmail-compatibles, if you have a suitable (ISP/provider) forwarding host handy. < 1301262661 191728 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And not all the "real" mail servers are so over-complicated, I don't think, and most can be configured into a no-local-mail mode.) < 1301262699 618135 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Connect to a fixed SMTP server" is so stupid, it's so much less additional effort for them to look up the proper MX host X_X < 1301262779 124674 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the assumption is that the fixed SMTP server is "nearby" and properly maintained so that it can just fail if it can't reach it. < 1301262804 981950 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For arbitrary-destination mail you almost-need a queue for delayed-delivery attempts. < 1301263042 213313 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it's common for all outgoing smtp traffic to be blocked except for a designated proxy < 1301263571 170874 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's common in a business environment, but not on an arbitrary ISP. < 1301263598 91004 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's common for arbitrary ISPs around these parts. < 1301263621 692011 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can only send email by using the ISP's SMTP server? Not your own, your school's, whatever? < 1301263643 475293 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1301263657 321014 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can usually connect to the TLS-wrapped SMTP port. < 1301263700 101631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP used to block SMTP, but we complained and they changed it. < 1301263707 902241 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's what most authenticated SMTP uses nowadays, anyway. < 1301263711 554672 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They already need to provide the relay in any case, since "regular" applications like Thunderbird need an outgoing-email SMTP server. < 1301263733 12864 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does your ISP provide you with an email address? < 1301263752 982116 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. < 1301263755 144159 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine doesn't, and to my knowledge doesn't provide a relay server, since they expect whatever email service you use to have one. < 1301263759 130850 :Ilari!~user@2002:5870:3714::1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there are 9 3-input classic gates, not 8. And the amount of gates for n inputs is apparently A006126 in OEIS. < 1301263779 167716 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather weird, from my viewpoint anyway. < 1301263786 180276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My ISP does, but I no longer use it and now it is full of junk and if you try to send a message to it, it will be blocked due to full mailbox. < 1301263786 851221 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be cultural differences. < 1301263816 213525 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why would you want your email address to be attached to your ISP? If you move or switch you're stuck. < 1301263858 489687 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Of course you don't need to *use* it, but they all provide something like five mailboxes per connection. < 1301263914 836980 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't think web-based email services used to provide a SMTP server anyway, "way back then". Does something like Hotmail do nowadays? < 1301263939 532507 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently yes. < 1301263972 64167 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purdue's email does, since IMAP/SMTP is the conventional way of using it. < 1301263981 704464 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would imagine most school or corporate email servers do. < 1301264028 492973 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if our school does, since the "isp provides an outgoing email server" is so widespread thing here. < 1301264103 924007 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, "origin SMTP server != MX record for host" is one of the more common spam-identifying heuristics :P < 1301264105 518311 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of hotmail/yahoo/gmail have their outgoing-mail servers in SSL/TLS non-25 ports so the no-outgoing-plain-SMTP block doesn't affect them anyway. < 1301264150 35765 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's a pretty sucky heuristic. < 1301264180 198288 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since most people use webmail, it's a pretty accurate heuristic. < 1301264200 869694 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can lie and say you're relaying, but then that's another heuristic :P < 1301264309 476847 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that heuristic catch your sendmail-replacement-with-direct-SMTP sent emails too? < 1301264327 337375 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1301264337 368320 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you understand the meaning of the word "heuristic"? :P < 1301264520 864074 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just sounds like a not-so-good one to me. Though I guess it manages to not-match both your "random webmail user" and the thing I think of when someone says "email user", which is "someone with Outlook Express from the ISP's installation CD preconfigured to use the ISP's mailbox + outgoing server", which might be a bit dated view. < 1301264573 581062 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I've managed to substitute Outlook Express with that... what was it called? Not Pegasus Mail, the other one. < 1301264643 665676 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eudora? < 1301264686 225593 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/with/for/ < 1301264748 532561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1301264753 7224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :relevant: toad.com why do i keep < 1301264757 844705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"doing this" < 1301264831 193568 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Mr ellio "hopeless" tt strikes again. < 1301264881 170807 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought a $20 year's service at a VPS host I shall name "Retarded VPS Hosts Inc." < 1301264894 202063 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just too curious to see how awful $20/y VPS hosting is :P < 1301265139 827496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Confusing yourself is a way to stay honest. < 1301265304 142529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, mysql.com was just hacked < 1301265306 316318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :via SQL injection < 1301265345 440361 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1301265471 516423 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess oracle couldn't predict that < 1301265524 742072 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.118.174 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.5.18/20110319140258] < 1301265553 159584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1301265702 548616 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1301265758 598678 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1301266134 317368 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaborate marketing prank: look at the extra security afforded by our enterprise database! < 1301266611 77901 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly realizes "marketing" means "worm eating" in norwegian
< 1301267674 808012 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, same in English. < 1301267696 733894 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Gregor -----###
< 1301268259 858698 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left NICK :TLUL|afk < 1301268556 919324 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GaKaGwch0U Hyuk < 1301268579 263254 :Gregor!~Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen the original, so I can easily convince myself that this is the "correct" version :P < 1301269125 665903 :TLUL|afk!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left NICK :TLUL < 1301269419 949881 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left NICK :TLUL|afk < 1301269510 89827 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's probably the best version of it