←2011-04-02 2011-04-03 2011-04-04→ ↑2011 ↑all
00:11:21 <zzo38> What I think that 4-letter TLDs should be used for, is for special use, such as making .example into .xmpl and having the same purpose as .example has.
00:17:13 <elliott> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
00:18:18 <zzo38> ????????????????????????????????????
00:18:43 <olsner> @?
00:18:57 <elliott> olsner: yes! @!
00:19:08 <olsner> haha, as if
00:19:32 <elliott> olsner: what
00:20:09 <olsner> I'm saying you will never build @ or get someone to do it for you :)
00:21:00 <zzo38> Is anyone in here who knows cricket rules and has experience?
00:21:51 <elliott> olsner: i can't parse the precedence of that sentence
00:21:52 <elliott> parenify plz
00:21:57 <Slereah> What if I told you the baseball rules in a british accent?
00:22:00 <Slereah> Would that work?
00:22:22 <elliott> `addquote <zzo38> Is anyone in here who knows cricket rules and has experience? <Slereah> What if I told you the baseball rules in a british accent?
00:22:24 <zzo38> Slereah: No, baseball is a different game.
00:22:25 <HackEgo> 345) <zzo38> Is anyone in here who knows cricket rules and has experience? <Slereah> What if I told you the baseball rules in a british accent?
00:23:37 <zzo38> It is someone said before that draws are common and I have some ideas that can make it less common without eliminating draws or changing much else, but someone with experience should answer me please.
00:24:12 <zzo38> What is this? http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:IRC&curid=2413&diff=21685&oldid=10846
00:24:27 <zzo38> Also this? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:M-code
00:24:43 <elliott> A tankre.
00:26:25 <oerjan> zzo38: bot spam, almost certainly
00:26:33 <zzo38> Slereah: Have you ever told anyone baseball rules in a British accent?
00:27:05 <ais523> zzo38: I have
00:27:10 <ais523> but that's because I'm British
00:27:14 <ais523> so it's my natural accent
00:27:22 <ais523> also, I know most of the rules of cricket
00:27:43 <ais523> anyway, the reason draws are common are due to people running out of time for a match, due to people not getting out quickly enough and not declaring
00:27:51 <ais523> (either by mistake, or because it would make them lose)
00:28:01 <ais523> and there are alternative rules that avoid draws already for one-day matches
00:28:04 <ais523> but they aren't used in full matches
00:28:21 <elliott> oerjan: what kind of bot spams with hello world?
00:28:29 <zzo38> ais523: Yes I know that. However, I have some ideas to make draws a bit less common while still possible, such as making some changes to the world during the last half hour of play.
00:28:35 <zzo38> s/world/rules/
00:28:37 <olsner> elliott: what was the ambiguouous part?
00:28:55 <olsner> I meant that you'll never (build @) or (get someone to do it(= build @) for you)
00:29:06 <elliott> olsner: (never {build @ or get someone to do it for you}) vs. (or {never build @} {get someone to do it for you})
00:29:09 <oerjan> elliott: i don't know but "catch sufficiently hello world" gives google hits
00:29:17 <ais523> zzo38: that might be unfair, as as one side's bowling and one side's batting then, the rules change would affect the two sides differently
00:29:31 -!- elliott has set topic: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Qdeql +Sceql +SMETANA) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
00:30:46 <libc\x2Eso> try { ... } catch (ex) { if (ex.sufficientlyHelloWorld()) { console.log("Hello, world!"); } }
00:33:49 <zzo38> ais523: Yes I can see that, but the idea I have was that there would be ways to make it end faster but that this might benefit both sides, and that it would then become a bit more difficult to continue until time up. Such as, during the last half hour of play (on the last day), any maiden automatically takes a wicket and the ball into designated areas earns double runs. Perhaps also these rules can be adjusted based on time wasting calculations
00:34:13 <ais523> double runs is a much more minor bonus than maidens taking wickets automatically
00:34:22 <ais523> maidens are much more common than wickets
00:34:45 <ais523> perhaps a straight *3 on runs might balance it, but it still probably wouldn't be completely balanced
00:36:28 <oerjan> cricket is like this game, if you didn't know it was old, you'd think it was a parody of something else
00:36:38 <zzo38> Yes that might fix it a bit.
00:37:19 <oerjan> so well-made it is useless to try and parody it further. although i'm sure people must have tried.
00:37:27 <elliott> Vorpal: how much ram does an ubuntu-for-genera vm require?
00:37:43 <zzo38> oerjan: Is that what it looks like to you? Maybe it might. How much of the rules do you know, oerjan?
00:38:11 <oerjan> right now i'm going just by your long line above.
00:39:44 <elliott> ais523: btw, is blognomic any fun?
00:39:48 <ais523> oerjan: you know how there are plenty of stereotypes about English gentlemen, who spend all day sipping tea and taking things slowly in immaculate and beautiful gardens?
00:39:51 <elliott> nowadays
00:40:03 <ais523> cricket's like what you get if you try to apply all those to baseball simultaneously
00:40:11 <ais523> elliott: it varies a lot; this dynasty may be a good one, but it's too early to tell
00:40:17 <ais523> it's been boring for months, but I rejoined recently
00:40:20 <oerjan> ais523: nice summary
00:41:10 <ais523> five-day cricket is probably the slowest-paced sport in existence
00:41:26 <elliott> ais523: Uh, Brockian Ultra-Cricket?
00:41:38 <ais523> elliott: that's probably pretty fast-paced
00:41:46 <elliott> *Ultra Cricket
00:41:49 <elliott> no wait
00:41:51 <elliott> *Ultra-Cricket
00:42:00 <elliott> ais523: I dunno, beating people might be really slow in the seventh dimension
00:43:08 <oerjan> Ul-Tra Cricket. named by its mad scientist inventor Siad Ul-Tra.
00:43:47 <ais523> oerjan: it's not an understatement, anyway, to say that cricket games are intended to take five days, but often are drawn due to not being nearly finished by then
00:44:01 <oerjan> ...right.
00:44:20 <elliott> i propose a new form of cricket
00:44:23 <elliott> Zero-limit Cricket
00:44:27 <elliott> teh game lasts until someone wins. no exceptions
00:44:43 <ais523> elliott: it was originally unlimited; the five-day limit was added due to people getting bored after a few weeks
00:44:47 <elliott> :D
00:45:09 <lament> how can anyone get bored of cricket
00:45:22 <lament> well, short of watching it i guess
00:45:22 <oerjan> elliott: see? you cannot actually parody cricket.
00:45:28 <elliott> oerjan: :D
00:45:47 <elliott> we british. so durpy.
00:45:54 <elliott> (that's the motto of britain)
00:46:04 <zzo38> Long-form cricket is certainly slow, although it allows many possibilities to be played. It would certainly be very boring to people who prefer the short-forms or who do not understand cricket very well.
00:46:10 <elliott> ("british nos, ita durpy")
00:46:16 <ais523> lament: for bonus points, many channels just show "extended highlights" of cricket, which is all the bits that they thought were interesting
00:46:22 <ais523> and they typically last around twenty minutes
00:46:29 <ais523> as a summary of the whole five-day matches
00:46:49 <elliott> :D
00:47:15 <ais523> elliott: hey, why are /you/ laughing? aren't you British?
00:47:21 <zzo38> elliott: If the game lasts until someone wins, does that mean that there is no draws, and in case of tie you do the fifth and sixth innings?
00:47:23 <ais523> aren't you forced to play cricket in school?
00:47:36 <ais523> zzo38: ties are statistically incredibly unlikely
00:47:47 <elliott> <ais523> elliott: hey, why are /you/ laughing? aren't you British?
00:47:49 <ais523> after five days, and hundreds of runs, it would be quite a fluke for both sides to have exactly the same score
00:47:50 <elliott> yes, it's quite shameful
00:47:53 <elliott> <ais523> aren't you forced to play cricket in school?
00:47:54 <elliott> ABSOLUTELY
00:47:58 <elliott> cricketulum
00:48:06 <ais523> at least it's pretty easy, you don't do anything 95% of the time
00:48:10 <elliott> zzo38: yes
00:48:11 <ais523> and at least if you're me, mess up the other 5%
00:48:19 <elliott> the number of innings can in fact exceed nine thousand
00:48:32 <ais523> I was so bad at cricket that in the end they decided to make me be the scorekeeper rather than play on either team, at school
00:49:02 <oerjan> crickethulhu. the game where the players try to slow it down as much as possible, for obvious reasons.
00:49:06 <zzo38> ais523: I know ties are unlikely.
00:49:32 <ais523> oerjan: bowlers have been fined for stalling, on occasion
00:49:39 <ais523> real-life money, that is, not anything in-game
00:49:59 <oerjan> ais523: i am sure the penalties in crickethulhu would rather more severe.
00:50:02 <oerjan> *be
00:54:54 <oerjan> _occasionally_ some players on the winning team might survive, i guess.
00:55:25 <zzo38> oerjan: If you try to slow it down as much as possible, there won't be a winning team, it will end in a draw.
00:55:26 <lament> survive till the victory ceremony, anyhow
00:55:35 <ais523> zzo38: exactly
00:55:37 <zzo38> The penalties would be prohibiting slow-motion VCRs. And that you have to bet your fingers and ears if you run out of money.
00:56:13 <oerjan> crickethulhu draws are in the sense of "hung, drawn and quartered".
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01:06:58 <zzo38> Write down the rules. [1] If the batsman catches the ball (out handling the ball), you have to eat the ball. [2] If you hit a duck with anything, you lose instantly. [3] You do not stop due to the weather. If it is snow or lightning storm, you still have to continue playing in lightning storm. [4] No protective equipment is permitted. [5] Slow-motion VCRs are permitted until there is a stalling penalty, at which point they are prohibited for th
01:07:02 <elliott> oerjan: but what about the slow-motion VCRs?
01:07:50 <zzo38> e rest of the match. [6] In case of draw, is hung, drawn and quartered. [7] In case of tie, the umpire is required to tie you up. [8] U mUST USING, propper, spellling/gram-er @all times!!!!!!!!!!!
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01:08:49 <oerjan> argh
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01:09:09 * oerjan checks logs
01:09:15 <zzo38> [9] You have to use heavier balls at the victory ceremony.
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01:10:04 <oerjan> zzo38: if that's supposed to be the crickethulhu rules then i don't think you have got the spirit of it at all
01:10:20 <ais523> I think zzo38's just trying to make the game a little less boring
01:10:25 <zzo38> oerjan: Well, it is not finish yet. You have to write the rest, too.
01:10:29 <ais523> pun cricket, or something
01:10:38 <oerjan> hint: cthulhu doesn't mess around which such chicken "penalties"
01:10:44 <ais523> zzo38: but in the case of crickethulu, writing the rest wouldn't make sense
01:10:48 <ais523> as even reading it would make you go insane
01:10:57 <oerjan> ais523: hm true
01:10:59 <ais523> hmm, unless writing one of those things makes you become sane?
01:11:03 <zzo38> ais523: But some people in esolangs is already a bit insane in some ways, so you can write it.
01:11:07 <ais523> there would be a nice sort of symmetry to that
01:11:14 <oerjan> ais523: i wouldn't bet on that...
01:11:20 <ais523> oerjan: neither would I
01:11:29 <zzo38> (I do mean you. Not only me. Also you.)
01:13:26 <elliott> yay, og2 is going fast
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01:16:57 <elliott> ais523: Do you know how to boot Ubuntu 7.10 or similar versions in expert install mode?
01:17:24 <ais523> elliott: no
01:17:33 <elliott> that's okay, i just figured it out X-D
01:17:52 <elliott> "Coming soon: Better ads in Google Mail."
01:17:54 <elliott> golly gosh!
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01:23:04 <elliott> @@@@@@http://sprunge.us/ZGMd@@@@@@@@
01:23:24 <olsner> yay obfuscated url
01:23:30 <ais523> not /very/ obfuscated
01:23:34 <elliott> FSVO obfuscate@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
01:24:02 <oerjan> NSFVO
01:24:39 <elliott> not safe for vixen oligarchies
01:25:02 <libc\x2Eso> It's obfuscated enough to confuse XChat >_>
01:25:26 <ais523> even rot13 would do taht
01:25:28 <ais523> *that
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01:25:47 <libc\x2Eso> Uhhh, but that's substantially less obfuscation than rot13.
01:26:12 <libc\x2Eso> @@@@@Hahahaha, you'll never unobfuscate this!@@@@@
01:26:29 <elliott> I think I did it! Is the answer: "Unununun, lbh'yy arire haboshfpngr guvf!"?
01:26:53 <olsner> Haboshfpngr would be a nice name for an esolang
01:27:21 <elliott> "fpng" has to be one of the heartiest sounds
01:27:29 <elliott> the p kind of nuclear-bombs the phonetics
01:27:50 <olsner> yeah, shfpngr is a consonant cluster to kill for
01:28:16 <elliott> i like how it's actually pronounceable without any vowels sneaking in
01:28:21 <ais523> and it has enough semivowels in that it's actually pronouncable
01:30:26 <elliott> grr ubuntu
01:30:46 <elliott> just because i'm using a US english system
01:30:49 <elliott> doesn't mean my timezone is american
01:31:58 <elliott> gah
01:32:06 <elliott> it's impossible to have the two, it seems
01:32:39 <elliott> meh, i'll fix the timezone post-installation
01:33:35 <elliott> it feels so quaint to disable shadow passwords
01:34:45 <elliott> Re: that obfuscation, btw, if it made you gave up, I saved you some wasted time :P
01:39:41 <zzo38> Is the \linepenalty parameter of TeX misnamed?
01:41:00 <elliott> Yes.
01:41:26 <ais523> it was meant to be named bzspoiajsd, but that name's apparently illegal in Norway
01:42:30 <zzo38> Then why did Knuth call it \linepenalty? It is not a penalty value.
01:43:23 <elliott> ais523: that's totally not something ais would say
01:43:25 <elliott> what did you do with him
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01:43:42 <ais523> elliott: I think I was trying to do an impression of you, but not a very good one
01:43:53 <elliott> that was closer to a bad oerjan
01:43:58 <elliott> except he'd have picked another country :D]
01:44:02 <elliott> s/\]$//
01:44:07 <ais523> elliott: perhaps
01:44:16 <ais523> although Norway has rules on name legality, which is why I picked it
01:44:19 <elliott> otoh the random text reminds me of... olsner? cpressey?
01:44:29 <elliott> ais523: doesn't sweden too, c.f. albin
01:44:39 <ais523> ah, perhaps that's what I was thinking of
01:44:47 <elliott> they should rename that kid to "pronounced [ˈalbɪn]"
01:44:51 <ais523> and the text wasn't random, I tried mashing my keyboard several times
01:44:53 <elliott> like lynard skynyrtrd
01:44:58 <ais523> until I got a sequence of letters I liked
01:45:01 <elliott> haha
01:45:06 <elliott> like rutian!
01:45:44 <elliott> re that law: The law was enacted in 1982, primarily in order to prevent non-noble families from giving their children the names of noble families..
01:45:47 <elliott> s/\.\.$/./
01:45:49 <elliott> totally gross
01:46:20 <elliott> wow, Lynyrd Skynyrd have had so many lineup changes that the past members section on WP ensd with "also see: List of Lynyrd Skynyrd band members"
01:46:20 <elliott> *ends
01:46:26 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lynyrd_Skynyrd_band_members
01:47:06 <ais523> haha
01:47:17 <elliott> ok, this is ridiculous:
01:47:19 <elliott> [[The title of the album (and its title track) is written by Mark Stephen Jones, Travis Meadows and Bud Tower. Lyrically, it appears to oppose all kinds of gun control, a notable change from the lyrical stance of the original Lynyrd Skynyrd fronted by Ronnie Van Zant, who many claim sang against handguns in the song Saturday Night Special. When one cites a line from "Saturday Night Special", Van Zant's position on gun control might seem unclear:
01:47:19 <elliott> "Why don't we dump em, people, to the bottom of the sea", with the subject of the sentence being "em", or handguns, which might also be interpreted as "Why don't we dump em people to the bottom of the sea", with the subject being em people (them people). [3] The potential ambiguity is resolved in the next line, "Before some fool come around here / Wanna shoot either you or me". Had Van Zant's subject of the previous line been "em people", then th
01:47:23 <elliott> e guns would still be accessible.]]
01:47:40 <elliott> it just sort of gets more and more ridiculous then climaxes in that final sentence
01:49:15 <oerjan> <ais523> it was meant to be named bzspoiajsd, but that name's apparently illegal in Norway <-- i don't know, our name laws have been considerably loosened in recent years.
01:49:24 <elliott> i think he was thinking of sweden
01:49:25 <elliott> :P
01:49:31 <ais523> perhaps
01:49:36 <elliott> hmm, i should read techdirt more
01:49:38 <ais523> but besides, "recent years"
01:49:47 <ais523> I don't think it was recent when Knuth wrote TeX
01:50:14 <zzo38> Do you mean \linepenalty was supposed to be bzspoiajsd but they wanted to make sure the program was not illegal in Norway????
01:50:36 <elliott> Yes.
01:50:39 <elliott> Yes, that is what we mean.
01:50:46 <ais523> zzo38: we may well be lying, though
01:50:55 <zzo38> elliott: I don't believe that.....
01:51:28 <ais523> it's ok if you don't believe it or if you do believe it, in the end everybody has to be able to make up their own mind
01:51:54 <oerjan> i have little idea what our name law does say these days
01:51:56 <zzo38> ais523: OK
01:52:44 * oerjan googles
01:56:25 <oerjan> bzspoiajsd is probably illegal anyway, it's just too weird.
01:56:47 <elliott> oerjan: I FIND THAT VERY OFFENSIVE
01:56:59 * elliott decides not to reveal that his name is actually Bzspoiajsd "Elliott" Hird for the time being
01:57:04 <elliott> too many JERKS
01:57:05 <elliott> like OERJAN
01:57:32 <zzo38> I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same name!!!
01:57:47 <elliott> `addquote <zzo38> I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same name!!!
01:57:50 <HackEgo> 346) <zzo38> I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same name!!!
01:58:03 <oerjan> you are not allowed to give a child a first name that would be a considerable burden to it. the word "considerable" (vesentlig) was added in the recent liberalization.
01:58:23 <elliott> dammit, so much for Dicknose Hird
01:58:38 <oerjan> also you cannot use a surname as a first name unless it's already traditionally a first name.
01:58:45 <zzo38> What if the child decide to change their own name afterward? What are laws about that?
01:58:51 <elliott> (if we say this enough, the conservatives will get scared about the name law causing rampant abortion)
01:59:32 <elliott> hmm, does configuring language-pack-en-base normally take a long time?
01:59:51 <zzo38> elliott: Yes, maybe they should get scared of the name laws (whether or not it causes abortion)
01:59:55 * oerjan clicks the actual law text
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02:00:19 <ais523> elliott: language configuration often does take a while
02:00:23 <elliott> [Smoking Everywhere] (4:43:09 PM): NO LIMIT
02:00:25 <elliott> [CX] (4:43:21 PM): awesome!
02:00:25 <elliott> ^ this was judged to actually change a contract
02:00:49 <elliott> NO LIMIT constituted an acception of the previous offer to change the contract (a few lines saying "blah blah if I have your blessing"), "awesome!" was the agreement
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02:00:58 <elliott> which is, what's the word
02:01:00 <elliott> awesome
02:01:04 <elliott> ais523: it's been doing it for about 10 minutes
02:01:28 <ais523> it normally doesn't take /that/ long
02:01:38 <elliott> which is what's worrying me
02:01:41 <elliott> I think I'll restart the installation
02:02:04 <elliott> the VM is worryingly slow, anyway
02:02:34 * elliott disables APIC on a hunch
02:04:07 <elliott> hmm, now the installer won't even start
02:05:24 <oerjan> §3: Surnames held by more than 200 people in Norway can be changed to by anyone without consent. otherwise you need their consent or have a specific right to use it.
02:08:39 <oerjan> A surname which _no one_ has, you can use unless (1) It's too similar to another, protected name (2) It's identical to a wellknown trademark or similar (3) Is or has been used as a first name, and is not traditionally also a surname.
02:08:47 <oerjan> *It is
02:08:52 <elliott> Albin Coca-Cola
02:09:06 <oerjan> precisely
02:09:24 <elliott> oh well, at least it stops parents giving their kids names like "Ørjan Johansen"
02:09:37 <oerjan> true, true. (note: not actually true.)
02:09:49 <elliott> clearly I must start Johansen Enterprises
02:09:55 <zzo38> Do they have a list of what is traditionally a given name and surname?
02:10:05 <oerjan> (Johansen is still the second most common surname in norway, iirc)
02:10:17 <elliott> so are you like Joe Smith?
02:10:20 <elliott> that's so coooooooool
02:10:48 <oerjan> zzo38: the central people register, is what the law refers to
02:11:20 <oerjan> no, more like Gregor Smith
02:12:01 <oerjan> (Ørjan is no. 50 or so, unless i misremember)
02:12:16 <libc\x2Eso> "Smith" is a common surname in Norway? :P
02:12:46 <libc\x2Eso> Oh, or do you think that Gregor is like name #50 in England/America?
02:12:51 <libc\x2Eso> (Which is a pretty broken assumption)
02:13:21 <oerjan> i did report on my checks in the statistical name database on this channel previously...
02:14:04 <oerjan> libc\x2Eso: well i first thought "George" which is actually cognate to Ørjan, but then thought that has to be too common
02:14:15 <elliott> georjan
02:14:22 <libc\x2Eso> We're talking about #50 here, not #1.
02:14:37 * oerjan rechecks
02:14:38 <libc\x2Eso> Gregory might be #50, Gregor can't be more than #15,000 in England or America.
02:14:44 <elliott> http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CMayhejY6P_D5QEQrAIY2AQyCHE0hnAwrr-0
02:14:46 <elliott> IT'S
02:14:48 <elliott> HIS HAIR
02:14:50 <elliott> JUSTIN BIEBER
02:14:52 <elliott> STARTS FRIDAY
02:14:59 <libc\x2Eso> WITH A GANG FIGHT
02:15:24 <elliott> <libc\x2Eso> Gregory might be #50, Gregor can't be more than #15,000 in England or America.
02:15:25 <elliott> srsly?
02:15:26 <elliott> gregor is like
02:15:27 <elliott> a common name
02:15:29 <elliott> isn't it
02:15:33 <elliott> i
02:15:34 <elliott> i guess it isn't
02:15:35 <elliott> that's weird
02:15:36 <oerjan> libc\x2Eso: oh actually Ørjan is 152
02:15:46 <oerjan> i just remembered the "5" part :D
02:16:04 <libc\x2Eso> "Gregor" is effectively unheard of in the US, I can't speak for England. People assume I'm not American based on my name.
02:16:16 <elliott> yeah i guess it's like
02:16:17 <elliott> russian sounding
02:16:19 <elliott> but like
02:16:22 <elliott> you're the first gregor i know
02:16:25 <oerjan> Johansen is indeed #2
02:16:26 <elliott> and your name sounds so like
02:16:27 <elliott> gregor richards
02:16:30 <elliott> it sounds like a really common name
02:16:44 <elliott> this is like an optical illusion :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDfghjklup0[i]o;f'lp
02:17:23 <oerjan> Smith is not _unheard_ of in norway, btw, our neighbors when i group up had that name, and there are the "Smith's friends"...
02:17:33 <elliott> *Church numerals
02:17:52 <oerjan> Smith is #244
02:18:04 <oerjan> *grew up
02:18:06 <libc\x2Eso> I can't find a /first name/ DB for USA.
02:18:43 <ais523> Gregor is pretty rare as a first name in the UK too
02:18:52 <ais523> MacGregor is a common surname, though
02:18:53 <elliott> ima call libc\x2Eso Mendel from now on
02:19:10 <libc\x2Eso> Heredity: I invented it. That's right. Invented.
02:19:24 <elliott> i wonder why this vm is so slow
02:19:26 <elliott> makes me very sad
02:19:29 <elliott> like a porcubine
02:20:08 <libc\x2Eso> Gregory is #37. Gregor isn't in the top 300. I would be surprised if it's in the top 10,000.
02:20:35 <oerjan> here's the statistical page in english: http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/00/navn_en/
02:20:44 <elliott> i swear
02:20:45 <elliott> it's hugn
02:20:47 <elliott> on loading the floppy module
02:21:05 <libc\x2Eso> In fact, it seems there are too few Gregors in the USA for the census to report it in its summary data
02:21:05 <elliott> i wonder if they cripple the open source version :D
02:22:26 <libc\x2Eso> There are more Eldens, more Keneths who don't know how to spell, more Modestos, more Warners, more Andreases, more Rayfords :P
02:23:21 <elliott> What's the frekwensee Keneth?
02:23:24 <libc\x2Eso> Oh daaaamn! It's #7,153
02:23:43 <libc\x2Eso> There are more Gregoires X-D
02:23:45 <oerjan> the english page seems to be missing first names listed by frequency though
02:24:06 <libc\x2Eso> But less Gregersons (wtf first name)
02:24:39 * oerjan knew a Greger back in the old home town. mad as a hatter.
02:24:50 <elliott> wait oerjan has moved?
02:24:53 <elliott> that's so unoerjan :/
02:25:02 <oerjan> as in, paranoid schizophrenia or something.
02:25:33 <oerjan> or well, i didn't know him as much as my parents did
02:26:41 <libc\x2Eso> "Grega" wtf X-D
02:26:43 <elliott> WHY DID YOU MOVE OERJAN
02:26:48 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: Greggsybob
02:26:56 <oerjan> because my home town doesn't have a university?
02:27:03 <elliott> oerjan: build one there? :/
02:27:12 <elliott> that sounds like a pokemon
02:27:24 <elliott> its call would just be a distorted "grefrath"
02:27:40 <libc\x2Eso> An old family name in the Richards family, Dodifer, doesn't appear :P
02:27:41 <oerjan> libc\x2Eso: are you saying _grefrath_ is more common than gregor?
02:27:48 <libc\x2Eso> oerjan: No, that one's less :P
02:28:00 <libc\x2Eso> Now I'm just staring at silly names :P
02:28:41 <libc\x2Eso> The artist formerly known as Prince
02:28:52 <elliott> Is it Shwiuqeiêé'eakrtaqx (pronounced "Chan-ikwah")
02:28:59 <elliott> OMG RACISM
02:29:03 <libc\x2Eso> No, that's like #15
02:29:08 <elliott> X-D
02:29:26 <libc\x2Eso> ♥ the "qx" btw :P
02:29:38 <elliott> It's a silent qx.
02:33:23 <oerjan> §4 lists a lot of ways you can have a right to a surname, starting with your great great grandparents having had it, and including marriage, farm names and a lot of other minor cases. Adoption is not there but in §5.
02:34:46 <elliott> yay, newer closed source virtualbox is... kind of faster
02:34:55 <elliott> except not
02:35:07 <ais523> elliott: also kind-of broken
02:35:13 <elliott> ais523: howso?
02:35:32 <elliott> (it does start with an oracle logo on bootup though, which I find repulsive :))
02:35:51 <ais523> at least on our NetHack TASing server, trying to poweroff hangs, force-quitting corrupts the disk image, and the kernel spouts all sorts of filesystem errors on reload
02:36:05 <elliott> ais523: known bug with ext4
02:36:10 <elliott> it tells you to enable the host cache
02:36:14 <elliott> when you start the VM
02:36:15 <elliott> at least for me
02:36:20 <ais523> that's ext3
02:36:25 <elliott> well, maybe ext3 too
02:37:13 <oerjan> §6 allows you to make the spelling of your surname less weird. Also to change the gender ending if it has one. (The latter isn't precisely common.)
02:37:46 <elliott> and again, virtualbox gets stuck on the
02:37:47 <elliott> EXTREMELY
02:37:48 <elliott> DIFFICULT
02:37:49 <elliott> TASK
02:37:51 <elliott> of loading the floppy module
02:38:28 <elliott> maybe i'll install the EXACT VERSION vorpal used
02:40:46 <elliott> ais523: i think i concur re kind of broken
02:40:55 <oerjan> §7 allows you to combine two surnames with a hyphen. §8 prohibits using surnames as first names unless traditionally first names. §9 allows surnames to be used as middle names. §10 contains the prohibition agains adopting a name that could be a considerable burden, it actually says nothing about whether it's a child or not.
02:41:05 <oerjan> zzo38: ^ §10 up there
02:41:26 <oerjan> also, "other strong reasons"
02:41:31 * elliott http://dlc.sun.com/virtualbox/3.2.6/
02:41:47 <elliott> karmic? that's the same thing as maverick!
02:41:51 <elliott> or did lucid come after karmic
02:41:59 <elliott> ah, lucid is what i want
02:42:16 <elliott> ais523: so are you planning on updating to ubuntu 11.04?
02:42:28 <ais523> perhaps; I didn't update to 10.10
02:42:33 <ais523> I may go LTS from now on
02:42:42 <oerjan> §10 also prohibits changing your name more than every 10th year, except in certain cases like marriage or reversing a previous change
02:42:47 <ais523> also, Ubuntu's getting a worse attitude as time goes on
02:42:48 <elliott> ais523: the thing with 11.04 is that you get Unity, which is terrible
02:42:59 <elliott> (it had the potential to be good, but last I checked, it's god-awful)
02:43:01 <ais523> hopefully it'll be less terrible by release
02:43:02 <elliott> (literally unusable)
02:43:07 <elliott> ais523: it's at beta already...
02:43:16 <elliott> this _is_ the month :P
02:43:25 <ais523> from what I've heard, the concept's decent, but the implementation is so inefficient it doesn't run on anything
02:43:35 <elliott> it's not about inefficiency, it's that it's basically a skeleton
02:43:40 <elliott> like the application picker thing
02:43:44 <elliott> you can type things and click things
02:43:50 <elliott> I'm not even sure pasting worked
02:43:55 <elliott> it felt really weird
02:44:03 <elliott> and the way you can drag the icons on the left was just... weird and stupid and pointles
02:44:04 <elliott> s
02:44:06 <ais523> ah
02:44:19 <elliott> ais523: FWIW, I can vouch that Debian works flawlessly on your hardware (well, its big brother, but they're basically identical)
02:44:39 <ais523> yep, I'm just not sure if I want to go through the trouble of an OS reinstall
02:44:42 <elliott> and Debian ~= older Ubuntu, with a tiny tweak to make PolicyKit use sudo
02:44:42 <ais523> rather than upgrade
02:44:51 <elliott> I wonder if upgrading will keep Gnome
02:44:52 * oerjan sees a bug in §6: it doesn't consider the case of a gender _prefix_ like arabic ibn/bint
02:45:03 <elliott> oerjan: OR A GENDER INFIX
02:45:54 <oerjan> although since that surname doesn't actually inherit as such, it should only apply to actual transgendering...
02:46:02 <oerjan> *that surname form
02:46:42 <elliott> "transgendering", there's a word
02:47:12 <elliott> lol, googling suggest dan brown was the first to use it
02:47:14 <elliott> [[The act of tattooing one’s skin was a transformative declaration of power, an announcement to the world: I am in control of my own flesh. The intoxicating feeling of control derived from physical transformation had addicted millions to flesh-altering practices …. . . cosmetic surgery, body piercing, bodybuilding, and steroids . . . even bulimia and transgendering.]]
02:47:16 <oerjan> and the change would probably be allowed by the other paragraphs in any case (that one in particular says that changing the gender doesn't count as a change at all for the rest of the law)
02:47:25 <elliott> that has to the most bizarre paragraph i've read in a while
02:48:45 <oerjan> might be going slightly off the deep there at the end
02:48:50 <elliott> ugh, the version vorpal used seems to be no faster
02:50:29 <elliott> I wish the port of OpenGenera to linux sucked less, so it could be used directly
02:50:38 <elliott> but then it's genera itself that craps all over your config...
02:52:39 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: "maloader is a Mach-O (OSX) loader for Linux. It is already able to run the XCode toolchain on Linux. [repost from /r/linux]"
02:52:55 <libc\x2Eso> HOLY AWESOME
02:52:59 <libc\x2Eso> WANT
02:53:01 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: Clearly you must create (A,B)loader, parameterisable over executable format A and OS B.
02:53:08 <elliott> ONLY THEN WILL YOU RULE
02:53:11 <elliott> omfg
02:53:13 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: it's shinh's <3
02:53:16 <elliott> shinh: the best????
02:53:17 <elliott> THE BEST
02:53:20 <elliott> https://github.com/shinh/maloader
02:53:44 <libc\x2Eso> Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTW7Pd1vqc
02:53:45 <libc\x2Eso> elliott: Thankee
02:53:57 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: DON'T THANK ME, THANK SHINH
02:54:05 <libc\x2Eso> elliott: Thank you for the INFO
02:54:11 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: ALL THANKS GO TO SHINH
02:54:16 <elliott> <libc\x2Eso> Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTW7Pd1vqc
02:54:20 <libc\x2Eso> Is shinh somebody I should know? :P
02:54:24 <elliott> Ten seconds in, this already has more melody than the entire original
02:54:29 <oerjan> §14 allows the government ("the King") to make appropriate special rules for foreigners (only wrt protected surnames) and norwegians abroad.
02:54:35 <libc\x2Eso> elliott: lol
02:54:41 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: shinh runs Anarchy Golf (http://golf.shinh.org/), implemented 64-bit support (and more) for tcc...
02:54:49 <libc\x2Eso> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhkidokie
02:55:05 <oerjan> *foreigners in norway
02:55:59 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: this is much better than the original
02:56:16 <libc\x2Eso> I'm discovering that all of Bad Lip Reading's versions are better than the originals :P
02:56:48 <elliott> Distinct chicken and fighting theme I see
02:57:49 <oerjan> §16 says that if you already have two surnames with no hyphen, you can keep it that way. i presume that and §7 means you're no longer allowed to adopt two surnames without a hyphen.
02:58:30 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: The thing is that really, you only see their lips so often, so most of this is them just making up shit X-D
02:58:48 <libc\x2Eso> Yeah, but still amusing :P
03:00:20 <oerjan> and the rest of the law is just boring bureaucracy.
03:02:20 <elliott> I fear that this VM will be ridiculously slow :(
03:04:18 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: Great, now "ASIAN BABEH" is stuck in my head X_X
03:05:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Can I get some monkey brains or mermaid?).
03:07:28 <elliott> No.
03:08:42 <elliott> hey augur what are you doing on my reddits
03:09:42 <augur> uh
03:09:55 <augur> something?
03:09:56 <augur> nothing?
03:11:04 <oerjan> evil linguist plotting, probably
03:11:28 <augur> whats up now
03:11:45 <oerjan> the roof
03:12:03 <augur> elliott: whats happening with your reddits
03:12:08 <elliott> augur: you're on them
03:12:12 <augur> what
03:12:34 <elliott> yes
03:12:44 <augur> i dont follow
03:13:14 <elliott> L
03:14:05 <elliott> Vorpal: FIX IT
03:15:37 <augur> elliott: how am i on your reddits
03:15:45 <elliott> augur: you are
03:15:51 <augur> how tho
03:17:07 <elliott> i saw your name
03:17:08 <elliott> thats illegal
03:17:40 <augur> oh? where about?
03:18:23 <elliott> reddit
03:18:55 -!- pumpkin has joined.
03:19:02 <augur> right but where on reddit
03:19:39 <elliott> a comment page
03:20:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
03:20:06 <augur> elliott: which subreddit
03:20:11 <augur> seriously, dont make me hurt you
03:20:23 <elliott> a... subreddit
03:20:24 <elliott> gosh
03:20:29 <elliott> annoying you is difficult
03:20:38 <augur> WHICH SUBREDDIT
03:20:52 <elliott> LA LA LA LA I CANT'T HEAR YOU
03:20:53 <elliott> *CAN'T
03:21:12 <augur> im going to assume the haskell subreddit
03:21:34 * Sgeo fails to see augur as having posted anything
03:21:37 <elliott> nope :D
03:21:42 <elliott> it was actually /r/politics
03:21:45 <elliott> you came #1 in best ranking and i was like
03:21:47 <elliott> hey i know that name
03:21:49 <elliott> it's that annoying fag
03:21:50 <elliott> so yeah
03:21:56 <augur> #1 in best ranking?
03:21:58 <augur> oh
03:21:59 <augur> oh!
03:22:06 <augur> the arrested development picture
03:22:07 <augur> yes ok
03:22:32 <elliott> oerjan: ALWAYS WITH THE CHEAP KARMA THAT AUGUR
03:22:43 <augur> elliott: you know it!
03:22:47 <elliott> we /real/ #esoteric redditors, why, we contribute things of value, don't we ais523
03:22:54 <elliott> and...er...oerjan
03:23:13 <ais523> elliott: occasionally
03:23:47 <elliott> ais523: btw did you see how grauenwolf replied to you?
03:23:49 <elliott> i think he got mad :D
03:25:56 <ais523> yes, I did
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03:27:17 <elliott> hmm, does anyone have a simple way to create a window of WxH size in X?
03:27:19 <elliott> it can be blank
03:32:03 <elliott> cool, pbmlife(1) :D
03:33:15 <elliott> wow, Multics' `calendar`'s source was ugl
03:33:16 <elliott> *ugly
03:34:46 <elliott> hmm, it has -flags
03:34:50 <elliott> so -flags don't originate from unix
03:34:54 <elliott> although, Multics' were multiple-word
03:34:59 <elliott> and also had abbreviations
03:35:04 <elliott> -julian == -jul
03:35:07 <elliott> -date D == -dt D
03:35:12 <elliott> ais523: GNU didn't invent GNU long options :D
03:35:40 <ais523> did they invent the -- convention?
03:35:45 <elliott> ais523: well, probably
03:36:02 <elliott> this program seems to date back to 1972/1973
03:36:09 <elliott> and it's a huge mess of PL/I: http://multicians.org/calendar.html
03:36:18 <elliott> dunno if the indentation just got messed up or whether it was really that awful
03:36:24 <elliott> if ec ^= 0 then /* Ought to be an error, but might be old syntax. */
03:36:24 <elliott> if an = 1 then goto try_date;
03:36:25 <elliott> else goto arg_value_error;
03:36:25 <elliott> call hcs_$initiate_count(if_data.if(i).dn,if_data.if(i).en,"",if_data.if(i).bitc,1,
03:36:25 <elliott> if_data.if(i).ifptr,ec);
03:36:25 <elliott> if if_data.if(i).ifptr = null then /* Ought to be an error, but ... */
03:36:26 <elliott> if an = 1 then /* .. check for old syntax. */
03:36:28 <elliott> do;
03:37:00 <elliott> they sure as hell had no 80 column rule :D
03:43:13 <elliott> 11:10:02 <oklopol> you know how toilet paper comes from those weird boxes in public shitting places
03:43:14 <elliott> 11:10:14 <fizzie> oklopol: Thus far it's not sounding like a love story.
03:43:30 <elliott> Should have included 11:09:58 <fizzie> oklopol: You met your true love at the uni?!
03:43:31 <elliott> at the top there.
03:44:13 <elliott> 11:14:24 <ais523> the same sort of discovery as when you put a battery in backwards in an old-fashioned analog battery-powered clock, and the hands start ticking backwards
03:44:15 <elliott> ais523: does this work
03:44:18 <elliott> tell me this works
03:44:26 -!- libc\x2Eso has changed nick to Gregor.
03:44:29 <ais523> elliott: it does work
03:44:32 <ais523> on some sorts of clock, at least
03:44:34 <ais523> possibly not all of them
03:44:34 <elliott> ais523: i
03:44:40 <elliott> ais523: my life is complete
03:44:48 <Gregor> Argh. Stupid bip. Every time I connect from a different place it names me back to Gregor :P
03:44:56 <ais523> it never works on digital clocks, but certain analog clocks, it does
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03:50:38 <elliott> 11:20:38 * ais523 has trouble remembering events from the future
03:50:39 <elliott> deep
03:50:44 <elliott> ais523: lol if it worked on digital clocks
03:53:34 <elliott> 15:54:04 <alise> There once lived a family of old, old wasps. These wasps, every day, would clamour for a chance to see the Queen Wasp -- like a queen bee, but more a figurehead than a head of state, you see -- and the rest of the time they fantasised about seeing the Queen Wasp. One day they all got killed in a very boring way, and Bjorn knew nothing of this as he passed through the forest in which they didn't live.
03:53:35 <elliott> wow, i used to be a poet :|
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04:11:43 <elliott> 13:39:12 <Gregor-W> AnMaster: So is their C-to-LISP compiler actually available? Does it work with semi-real code?
04:11:53 <elliott> Gregor: to belatedly answer: AFAIK ZETA C is not available.
04:11:58 <elliott> Oh! It is!
04:12:01 <elliott> http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/TI/Explorer/zeta-c/
04:12:03 <elliott> For TI Explorer, though.
04:12:06 <elliott> Not Symbolics.
04:12:11 <elliott> There is a TI emulator, though.
04:12:18 <elliott> And *Zeta-C
04:12:22 <elliott> Oh, *ZETA-C
04:12:28 <Gregor> Wow, talk about "belatedly"
04:12:34 <elliott> Gregor: Yeah X-D
04:12:48 <elliott> Gregor: ZETA-C is awesome; its pointers are actually cons cells.
04:12:55 <elliott> (array . index). NULL is (NIL . 0).
04:13:08 <elliott> "All pointers were represented as pairs of an array and an index; NULL was
04:13:09 <elliott> simply a pair of NIL and 0. If you cast a pointer to an integer, you got a
04:13:09 <elliott> cons of the array part and the index part. You could later cast this back to
04:13:09 <elliott> a pointer without loss of information, but obviously you couldn't do
04:13:09 <elliott> arithmetic on it while it was in the form of a cons."
04:13:24 <elliott> "ZETA-C attempted (fairly successfully, I think) to find the right compromise
04:13:24 <elliott> between performance and generality. If you looked real closely, there were
04:13:24 <elliott> lots of little corners of C semantics where ZETA-C was not correct. In
04:13:24 <elliott> practice, however, one very rarely tripped over any of these.
04:13:24 <elliott> For instance, I used Lisp integers for C `int' and `long'. This meant bignums
04:13:25 <elliott> would be created automatically, as usual in Lisp. Technically this is not a
04:13:27 <elliott> correct C implementation (even though I don't think the standard specifically
04:13:29 <elliott> says that the length of `int' and `long' shall be finite, one can take this as
04:13:31 <elliott> implied) but it very rarely ran into trouble. The only such case I remember,
04:13:33 <elliott> which was rather amusing, was a program that did something like
04:13:35 <elliott> "
04:13:37 <elliott> Gregor: Bignumz!
04:13:43 <elliott> " int i;
04:13:43 <elliott> for (i = 1; i; i <<= 1) ...
04:13:43 <elliott> (shifting a 1 bit left repeatedly, expecting it to fall off the left end of
04:13:47 <elliott> the word).
04:13:49 <elliott> "
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04:25:39 <elliott> 15:41:49 <oklopol> i would like to inform you all that i just fixed an error in Gregor's plof implementation using my penis
04:25:39 <elliott> 15:42:30 <Gregor-W> He didn't fix it, he just identified it.
04:25:41 <elliott> Gregor: what
04:26:05 <Gregor> You seem to think I have memory.
04:26:08 <Gregor> I do not.
04:26:12 <elliott> 15:45:57 <oerjan> alise: @ despite appearances is a reserved _word_ (operator-like word), not a reserved character, so it doesn't count as special inside other operators. many other things like -- and \ are similar, afair. but somethings work like actual punctuation, like brackets, semicolons and commas. iirc.
04:26:14 <elliott> oerjan: *some things
04:26:20 <elliott> Gregor: I don't eithello Gregor!
04:26:27 <elliott> How are you toit sure is boring today.
04:26:38 <elliott> Nobody's said anything in the laman, I am a rabbit indeed.
04:26:39 <Sgeo> Reddit is down
04:26:40 <elliott> *I am
04:26:51 <Sgeo> Meaning #reddit-downtime is crowded with nuts
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04:37:13 <variable> The only problem with troubleshooting is that sometimes trouble shoots back.
04:38:58 <oerjan> > let (+;) = 3 in (+;)
04:38:59 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `;'
04:39:32 <oerjan> i guess allowing ; would just be too weird.
04:39:47 <oerjan> also complicate the indentation rule
04:40:43 <oerjan> > let (+,) = 3 in (+,)
04:40:44 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `,'
04:43:11 <oerjan> oh and it would interact badly with unary minus
04:43:25 <oerjan> of course some things already do that
04:43:35 <oerjan> > 2 == -2
04:43:36 <lambdabot> False
04:43:38 <oerjan> > 2 ==-2
04:43:39 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `==-'
04:44:30 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:54:17 <elliott> WTF, now the VM crashes on boot
04:54:23 <elliott> oh, or not
04:54:54 <oerjan> das boot
04:55:47 <elliott> das u-boot is a bootloader :p
04:57:30 <oerjan> natürlich
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05:00:35 <oerjan_> oops
05:00:40 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Client Quit).
05:00:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:00:58 -!- oerjan has joined.
05:02:25 <oerjan> hm i don't like this network error, that's the second time this week
05:02:38 -!- pumpkin has joined.
05:02:51 <elliott> oerjan: it's okay *hugs*
05:03:00 <Sgeo> variable, what is your Clearance?
05:03:06 <oerjan> it's coming from _inside_ the house
05:03:14 <Sgeo> What VM?
05:04:00 <oerjan> i have an idea i'll try if it happens again, though.
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05:07:57 <oerjan> (one of the router boxes looks like it might be misbehaving, but the other one was recently replaced and now has many more outgoing whatchamacallits, so i may just scratch the misbehaving one. perhaps.)
05:11:33 <elliott> gah, genera does not seem to be working
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05:14:40 <variable> Sgeo: clearence ?
05:14:44 <variable> * clearance
05:15:15 <Sgeo> Citizen! Failure to properly report your clearance is treason!
05:18:28 <elliott> variable: buy me a lisp machine ktnx
05:22:29 <elliott> GENERA FUCKING STARTS
05:22:30 <elliott> YES
05:22:33 <elliott> uh
05:22:37 <elliott> hasn't dignified any bootup text yet though
05:22:43 <elliott> oh the vm froe
05:22:44 <elliott> ze
05:22:45 <elliott> cool
05:23:26 <elliott> kinda disappointed variable isn't rushing to purchase me a lisp machine, that's never happened to me before
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05:42:10 <elliott> hey Vorpal! I think I may have a clue why internet in genera didn't work
05:42:19 <elliott> "Address for GENERA: INTERNET" --the define site screen
05:42:22 <elliott> that doesn't look right to me!
05:42:44 <elliott> oh wait that is right for the vm
05:55:22 <elliott> Vorpal: it works. thank you, thank you, thank you for creating this guide.
05:55:48 <elliott> http://ompldr.org/vODNieQ "It is two hundred sixty-seven words long."
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06:06:06 <elliott> this intro is so awesome
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06:52:10 <elliott> What was the first full-ASCII terminal?
06:52:15 <elliott> As in, both uppercase and lowercase.
06:57:00 <elliott> Gregor: BTW, also-belatedly in reply, I half-plan to write a mouse-oriented tiling WM since none seem to exist (apart from... acme).
06:57:06 <elliott> Actually wmii might do it...
07:09:51 <elliott> http://vlee.sourceforge.net/
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08:08:19 <elliott> "I have two thoughts about why students resist the idea of functions being values of no fundamentally different character than any others. One source, no doubt, is that many of them have “learned” programming on the street, and have developed all sorts of misconceptions that are being applied here."
08:08:25 <elliott> Dangerous street programming gangs!
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08:21:50 <Vorpal> <elliott> hey Vorpal! I think I may have a clue why internet in genera didn't work <-- oh?
08:21:56 <elliott> Vorpal: I was wrong
08:22:27 <elliott> Vorpal: anyway, it works, but it's a crapshoot to get it started; half the time the bottom bar loads and I can move my mouse around and it changes but it won't load the rest and clicking out of the window causes X to freeze silently
08:22:33 <elliott> the rare case, it works
08:22:52 <Vorpal> elliott, I haven't had that issue you mentioned
08:23:01 <Vorpal> <elliott> Vorpal: it works. thank you, thank you, thank you for creating this guide. <-- so does that mean you think I'm awesome?
08:23:04 <Vorpal> I assume it does
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08:23:55 <Vorpal> <elliott> Dangerous street programming gangs! <-- I like the idea
08:24:45 <elliott> well you'd be awesome if it didn't hang like that. and if it were faster. and if the scroll wheel worked.
08:24:54 <elliott> ...and backspace worked...
08:25:22 <Vorpal> elliott, the scrollback worked afaik?
08:25:29 <elliott> ???
08:25:33 <Vorpal> elliott, and delete does what backspace does
08:25:36 <elliott> yes, it does
08:25:39 <elliott> but delete is annoying to press her
08:25:40 <elliott> e
08:25:42 <elliott> fn+backspace
08:25:44 <Vorpal> ah...
08:25:50 <elliott> also every F-key :D
08:25:56 <Vorpal> hm?
08:25:59 <elliott> Fn+Shift+F10 was fun to press.
08:26:10 <elliott> as in, "I now have carpal tunnel" fun
08:26:18 <Vorpal> hah
08:26:25 <Vorpal> elliott, well that is your keyboard's fault
08:26:38 <Vorpal> elliott, my thinkpad have proper keys for it
08:26:49 <elliott> *has
08:26:52 <elliott> and depends on your definition of proper
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08:26:55 <Vorpal> elliott, besides Fn+Shift is easy, Fn is right below shift
08:26:59 <elliott> if you mean clustered at the top in a random jumble... :P
08:27:06 <elliott> and yes it is, but i still had to bend my hand to get both pressed
08:27:12 <Vorpal> elliott, well yes
08:27:20 <Vorpal> elliott, or move your hand
08:27:35 <elliott> 10:48:32 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, it's a lovely idea, but I enjoy programming, and as such am a terrible developer.
08:27:35 <elliott> HA HA HA THOSE WERE THE DAYS
08:27:40 <elliott> JULY 2010 EH
08:27:51 <Vorpal> elliott, what idea?
08:28:04 <elliott> Lisp OS things. But the point is that PH said he enjoys programming there, ha ha ha
08:28:12 <Vorpal> hah
08:28:42 <Vorpal> elliott, I thought he enjoyed procrastinating?
08:28:52 <elliott> X-D
08:29:00 <elliott> I wonder if I could write the @ compiler in BitC.
08:29:14 <Vorpal> interesting idea
08:29:52 <Vorpal> elliott, or write your own meta compiler in coq? Which is used to compile the compiler
08:30:03 <elliott> yo dawg
08:30:07 <Vorpal> :D
08:31:56 <elliott> Vorpal: Do you think a hash tree would work for storing objects in @?
08:31:58 <elliott> I've been thunkin'.
08:32:46 <elliott> 11:17:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Of course I mean VirtualBox. Writing bootloaders in Visual Basic is so stupid it's almost cool.
08:32:46 <elliott> BEST IDEA
08:33:54 <Vorpal> elliott, hash tree? Err?
08:33:57 <Vorpal> wait what
08:34:03 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_tree
08:35:13 <Vorpal> seems to be used for verification rather?
08:35:32 <Vorpal> btw I think I have a cold
08:35:52 <elliott> Vorpal: yes, but if you look at the structure...
08:35:57 <elliott> and pretend the arrows go the other way...
08:36:03 <elliott> it's suddenly a lookup tree
08:37:21 <Vorpal> hm
08:38:10 <elliott> 12:09:18 <alise> Basically, aliseOS will make you toast, take over the internet so you have some more computing power, make your mind explode every time you use it, and sexually gratify your dog*.
08:38:10 <elliott> 12:09:29 <alise> *Advanced edition only.
08:38:11 <elliott> 12:10:46 <zzo38> But I don't have a dog
08:38:11 <elliott> 12:10:57 <alise> zzo38: It will buy you a dog first.
08:38:11 <elliott> 12:11:28 <zzo38> But I don't need a dog
08:38:45 <elliott> (12:11:36 <alise> Yes, but the dog will be cuddly, you see. <zzo38> But I don't want a dog)
08:43:46 <elliott> routine that is a pain to code in python: "if all these lines start with a common whitespace prefix, remove it from all of them"
08:52:39 <oerjan> > transpose . dropWhile ((`elem` [" ", "\t"]) . map head . group) . transpose $ [" \t a ha", " \t\tbc", " \t hm"]
08:52:41 <lambdabot> [" a ha","\tbcm"," h"]
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08:53:27 <oerjan> wait what
08:53:36 <oerjan> darn
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09:16:56 <elliott> oerjan: bastard
09:17:02 <elliott> oerjan: get it right so i can port it :-D
09:19:23 <oerjan> > join (drop . length . takeWhile (`elem` [" ","\t"]) . map (map head . group) . transpose) $ [" \t a ha", " \t\tbc", " \t hm"]
09:19:25 <lambdabot> [" \t hm"]
09:19:32 <oerjan> er nope
09:19:47 <oerjan> > join (map . drop . length . takeWhile (`elem` [" ","\t"]) . map (map head . group) . transpose) $ [" \t a ha", " \t\tbc", " \t hm"]
09:19:49 <lambdabot> [" a ha","\tbc"," hm"]
09:20:31 <elliott> that should strp no prefix
09:20:33 <elliott> oh wait
09:20:37 <elliott> it should strip just the \t
09:20:38 <elliott> *strip
09:21:19 <oerjan> it does what i thought it should...
09:21:36 <elliott> right
09:21:36 <elliott> yes
09:21:47 <elliott> > join (map . drop . length . takeWhile (`elem` [" ","\t"]) . map (map head . group) . transpose) $ [" x"," x"," x"]
09:21:49 <lambdabot> [" x","x"," x"]
09:22:03 <elliott> ok, now to find a way to express that in a way that Idiot Python will understand
09:22:27 <elliott> :t transpose
09:22:28 <lambdabot> forall a. [[a]] -> [[a]]
09:22:33 <elliott> > transpose [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]
09:22:34 <lambdabot> [[1,4],[2,5],[3,6]]
09:22:38 <elliott> gah
09:22:48 <elliott> oerjan: it'd probably be easier to convert this whole program to haskell :D
09:22:53 <oerjan> heh :D
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09:23:20 <oerjan> note i am giving no guarantees that this is the most efficient method, even in haskell...
09:24:13 <elliott> i can't believe i'm brainfreezing on how to do it in python X_X
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09:25:47 <oerjan> um loop over the first line until you either hit whitespace or something which isn't in all lines?
09:25:53 <oerjan> *non-whitespace
09:27:09 <elliott> oerjan: except that the first line could have more than the prefix
09:27:13 <elliott> oh, i see what you mean
09:27:21 <elliott> isn't that uh
09:27:23 <elliott> O(mn)
09:27:29 <elliott> where m is the prefix chars and n is the number of lines apart from the first
09:27:35 <elliott> what a strange complexity
09:28:10 <oerjan> that's not strange, that's how many characters you actually need to check to be sure what to remove
09:28:19 <elliott> well, eys
09:28:20 <elliott> yes
09:28:23 <elliott> but that's still strange!
09:29:45 <oerjan> trying to drink gravy from one compartment in a telly dinner while there is still liquid in another is not recommended.
09:29:56 <elliott> noted
09:32:16 <oerjan> it's still O(n) in the actual file size
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09:35:39 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, you've now given me the most pathetic image ever.
09:36:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Unemployed mathematician sitting on a sofa with TV dinner liquid all over him.
09:38:24 <Phantom_Hoover> (Are you still an unemployed mathematician?)
09:52:06 <oerjan> yes. although it was just a little potato water.
09:52:18 <oerjan> and a chair, not a sofa.
09:53:02 <elliott> why, i'd PAY oerjan to be an unemployed mathematician
09:53:10 <oerjan> ...interesting.
09:53:25 <elliott> note: this counts as employment
09:54:00 <oerjan> darn.
09:55:32 <elliott> sorry to disappoint
09:55:39 <elliott> oerjan: i'll pay you to work on @ ;D
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10:57:16 <Vorpal> elliott, I looked more at the hash-tree, and I can't see how you could use it for lookup
10:57:27 <elliott> Vorpal: Like I said, pretend the arrows go the other way X-D
10:57:31 <Vorpal> elliott, each hash is a hash of the entire subset of blocks
10:57:50 <Vorpal> elliott, yes indeed, but I can't figure out how you can make it more than one level deep (a hash-list...)
10:59:13 <elliott> True :P
10:59:47 <Vorpal> elliott, so in other words, it won't work
10:59:52 <elliott> OH WELL
10:59:59 <Vorpal> elliott, b-tree is useful :P
11:00:08 <elliott> Sure, if you're LOSER :P
11:00:16 <Vorpal> elliott, okay do a b+-tree then
11:04:44 <Vorpal> bbl
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14:12:34 <elliott> 15:29:34 <olsner> it's like, drowning while strapped to a board and having fun!
14:13:50 <olsner> waterboarding?
14:16:45 <elliott> yes, the sport version
14:16:59 <elliott> 15:25:23 <elliott> olsner: ok so maybe with waterboarding you're actually like
14:16:59 <elliott> 15:25:29 <elliott> olsner: lying flat on the board at all times
14:16:59 <elliott> 15:26:10 <olsner> hmm, that could work
14:16:59 <elliott> 15:26:24 <olsner> although you do that when surfing too, just not all the time
14:16:59 <elliott> 15:27:07 <elliott> olsner: right, but CONSTANTLY
14:16:59 <elliott> 15:27:09 <elliott> olsner: ooh
14:17:01 <elliott> 15:27:16 <elliott> olsner: maybe your arms go underneath, and you tie them to it
14:17:03 <elliott> 15:27:18 <elliott> same with feet
14:17:05 <elliott> 15:27:21 <elliott> you become one with the board!
14:17:07 <elliott> 15:29:34 <olsner> it's like, drowning while strapped to a board and having fun!
14:17:10 <elliott> 15:30:39 <elliott> olsner: yup!
14:17:11 <elliott> 15:30:46 <elliott> olsner: just like waterboarding.
14:17:13 <elliott> 15:32:37 <olsner> well, the torture version is less likely to kill you I think
14:17:15 <elliott> lolflood
14:17:23 <elliott> olsner: Thank you for this life wisdom:
14:17:25 <elliott> 17:26:33 <olsner> it's all fun and games until you think of the details
14:18:07 <olsner> hehe, that's so true
14:24:08 <elliott> 20:08:46 <Sgeo> I also like what I've heard of Nickleback
14:24:08 <elliott> 20:09:04 <Sgeo> Although the lyrics are objectionable -- I am able to hande that
14:24:08 <elliott> i should only read logs from like 2005 so i don't have to have my nice relaxing times pooped on by terribleness
14:24:48 <elliott> 20:11:27 <Sgeo> Are you saying I can hear the same melody, with different lyrics???
14:24:48 <elliott> MY LIFE IS FINALLY COMPLETE
14:25:05 <Phantom_Hoover> You had the nick elliott before 2010?
14:25:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ?
14:25:26 <Phantom_Hoover> That conversation with olsner?
14:25:36 <elliott> Is from 2010-10-30.
14:26:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ?
14:26:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, right.
14:26:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: WHEN DID YOU THINK IT WAS FROM
14:27:08 <Phantom_Hoover> I THOUGHT IT WAS THE DISTANT PAST
14:27:14 <Phantom_Hoover> LIKE, 2 OR 3 YEARS AGO
14:29:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: YOU THINK THAT'S DISTANT, I WAS IN HERE A WHOLE ONE TIME IN 2006
14:29:43 <elliott> [~/esotericlogs]% grep ehird 06.* 20
14:29:44 <elliott> 06.12.29:12:42:41 --- join: ehird (n=ehird@user-5440e204.wfd80a.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #esoteric
14:29:44 <elliott> 06.12.29:12:43:09 --- part: ehird left #esoteric
14:29:44 <elliott> [~/esotericlogs]%
14:29:50 <Phantom_Hoover> FULLY FIVE YEARS AGO
14:30:07 <Phantom_Hoover> BACK WHEN I WAS ELLIOTT'S REAL AGE
14:30:14 <elliott> (THREE)
14:30:32 <elliott> [~/esotericlogs]% grep ehird 06.* | wc -l
14:30:33 <elliott> 2
14:30:33 <elliott> [~/esotericlogs]% grep ehird 07.* | wc -l
14:30:33 <elliott> 25729
14:30:39 <elliott> *GROWTH
14:30:43 <Phantom_Hoover> NO
14:30:55 <Phantom_Hoover> > 25729/2
14:30:55 <lambdabot> 12864.5
14:31:11 <Phantom_Hoover> > 25729 * 12864.5
14:31:12 <lambdabot> 3.309907205e8
14:31:20 <Phantom_Hoover> MY PREDICTION IS MADE
14:32:46 <elliott> [~/esotericlogs]% for i in 06 07 08 09 10; do grep "^..:..:.. <(ehird|elliott|alise|iEhird)[^>]*>" $i.* | wc -l; done
14:32:46 <elliott> 0
14:32:46 <elliott> 23597
14:32:46 <elliott> 52801
14:32:46 <elliott> 180807
14:32:48 <elliott> 181962
14:32:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: STATISTICS
14:33:13 <Phantom_Hoover> SURE BUT YOU CAN'T BEAT ELEGANCE
14:34:22 <Phantom_Hoover> (I'm amazed you were able to increase your activity from '09 to '10 despite being institutionalised for most of it.)
14:35:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You have NO IDEA how quickly I can type on an iPhone now.
14:35:55 <elliott> Also, '10 I was locked up, '09 I was free. But yeah, no idea how I managed to quadruple my activity :P
14:36:31 <Phantom_Hoover> I should totally implement my iPhone lockout mechanism on my family's WiFi network just to annoy my father and sister.)
14:36:34 <Phantom_Hoover> s/)//
14:37:06 <elliott> Define your iPhone lockout mechanism. Character in password not on iPhone keyboards?
14:37:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
14:38:28 <elliott> 21:54:38 <catseye> HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
14:38:28 <elliott> 21:54:48 <catseye> i had OS/2 Warp once.
14:38:28 <elliott> 21:55:02 <catseye> i had all those fucking floppies
14:38:28 <elliott> 21:55:04 <catseye> it never worked.
14:38:28 <elliott> some people are just poets
14:38:35 <elliott> 21:55:41 <elliott> catseye: summary of computing.
14:38:38 <elliott> some people are DOUBLE POETS
14:39:04 <Phantom_Hoover> == SUMMARY OF COMPUTING==
14:39:11 <Phantom_Hoover> I had OS/2 Warp once.
14:39:17 <Phantom_Hoover> I had all those fucking floppies.
14:39:21 <Phantom_Hoover> It never worked.
14:40:09 <elliott> brb editing [[wikipedia:computing]]
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14:48:38 <elliott> 23:21:31 <catseye> (i'll have an orange coke. let's slap a bsd gpl on this thing and check it into the github sccs.)
14:54:26 <elliott> 11:14:27 <cpressey> There's a squirrel that lives near my building that I see every so often. I can recognize it's the same squirrel because it has no tail. It is a constant reminder that, visually speaking anyway, squirrels are approximately 50% tail.
14:55:28 <olsner> it's a half-a-squirrel
14:56:11 <olsner> it would nicely symmetrical if there was a squirrel tail running about somewhere
14:57:23 <elliott> Apr 3 12:32:11 rutian thttpd[25281]: - - "GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/10/game-console.jpg HTTP/1.1" 404 0 "http://www.altavista.com/image/randomlink" "webcollage/1.135a"
14:57:24 <elliott> what
15:06:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Alta Vista?
15:06:59 <Phantom_Hoover> That still exists?
15:08:11 <elliott> :D
15:09:41 <olsner> looks like it's an altvista-themed frontend for yahoo nowadays
15:12:00 <elliott> yeah
15:12:36 <Gregor> IT'S STILL MORNING
15:12:45 <Gregor> I've been doing WORK
15:12:48 <Phantom_Hoover> NO IT'S NOT
15:12:49 <Gregor> And it's still MORNING
15:12:51 <Gregor> ... on SUNDAY
15:12:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Hey what happened to pikhq,
15:13:28 <elliott> he died
15:13:31 <Gregor> He /nick'd to pingveno a while ago and doesn't seem to talk much recently.
15:13:40 <elliott> lawl
15:13:43 <elliott> ALMOST BELIEVABLE
15:15:58 <elliott> olsner: btw: so gonna work on that forth again
15:17:14 <olsner> elliott: nice
15:17:58 <elliott> olsner: one problem is i need to copy the dictionary elsewhere, cuz right now it's in my code :D
15:18:21 <olsner> if you put it at the end of your code, can't you just keep adding to it? :)
15:19:08 <elliott> olsner: 0x55 0xAA
15:19:17 <elliott> i don't feel like making sure that aligns as some junk dictionary word
15:20:43 <elliott> hmm, how did i break my interpreter
15:21:40 <elliott> olsner: some of the words are promisingly tiny though
15:21:41 <elliott> store:pop bx ; addr
15:21:42 <elliott> pop ax ; value
15:21:42 <elliott> mov word [bx], ax
15:21:42 <elliott> next
15:21:49 <elliott> where next is
15:21:53 <elliott> xchg sp, bp
15:21:53 <elliott> ret
15:22:41 <Vorpal> oh doing the forth again? heh
15:23:01 <elliott> Vorpal: yeah, adding digit reading support and writing a compiler.
15:23:29 <Vorpal> hah
15:23:48 <Vorpal> elliott, chances of fitting it in 510 bytes?
15:23:58 <elliott> decent i guess?
15:24:06 <elliott> maybe more likely if i remove the interpeter :D
15:24:07 <Vorpal> :)
15:24:08 <elliott> *interpreter
15:24:18 <elliott> "there's a forth there, you just can't get at it"
15:25:25 <Gregor> s/interpreter/REPL/?
15:26:20 <elliott> Gregor: no, forth terminology is interpreter
15:26:24 <Gregor> Hm.
15:26:27 <Gregor> Okidoke
15:26:41 <elliott> Gregor: a forth interpreter reads words and executes them. a forth compiler reads words and compiles them into a new word definition
15:26:54 <elliott> you invoke the compiler with the : word in the interpreter
15:27:17 <Gregor> Fine, but presumably the main problem isn't the interpreter /per se/, but the keyboard interrupt driver, display, all that BS.
15:27:37 <elliott> Well, still, the interpreter is my longest subroutine :P
15:27:42 <Gregor> Mmm.
15:27:56 <elliott> http://sprunge.us/chBI
15:28:29 <Gregor> Ohwow, we actually get to see some code?
15:28:38 <elliott> THERE'S YOUR SCRAP
15:28:42 <Gregor> "ahem" is a good block name :P
15:28:55 <elliott> not sure what inspired me to call that ahem :D
15:29:55 <elliott> hmm, i should factor out that word-finder
15:30:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
15:31:27 <elliott> Gregor: FWIW, the definition of "Forth" this thing uses is very loose :P
15:32:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
15:32:45 <Gregor> Well, being /spiritually/ Forth is what's important, not being e.g. ANS Forth :P
15:33:07 <elliott> Gregor: Define spiritually :P
15:33:34 <Gregor> You must worship the great Forth god.
15:33:40 <elliott> That it does.
15:35:13 <elliott> hey omnipit-olsner, after a jz and a ret, will another jz have the same branch?
15:35:16 <elliott> or could it branch any old way
15:35:29 <elliott> i.e. does jz or ret invalidate/reset the flag
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15:47:44 <Vorpal> elliott, do you need that compiler? Can't you just do threaded code?
15:47:52 <elliott> Vorpal: ...
15:47:59 <Vorpal> string threaded I mean
15:48:05 <Vorpal> elliott, as in, interpret everything
15:48:13 <elliott> plz 2 learn how forth works
15:48:18 <Vorpal> mhm
15:49:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
15:59:44 <elliott> hmm
15:59:47 <elliott> do additions to bl overflow into bh?
16:00:21 <elliott> oh _dear_ that's broken
16:09:32 -!- asiekierka has joined.
16:09:57 <Vorpal> issue with firefox 4: if I type a m at the start of the address bar, it eats it up as a short cut for switch to tab. Extremely annoying. Any idea how to disable?
16:10:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Use Chrome </obnoxious>
16:11:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, there are some things I don't like with chrome.
16:16:28 <Vorpal> ...
16:18:01 <Vorpal> elliott, no. I'm talking about stuff like where the tab bar is. (Yes I know their motivation for it, I don't like it still.) And how it doesn't look native in a Gnome environment.
16:18:15 <Vorpal> at least not last I checked.
16:18:18 <elliott> There are themes to make it native for just about any gnome theme.
16:18:24 <elliott> That + tell it to use WM decorations.
16:18:29 <elliott> Looks flawless here.
16:18:34 <Vorpal> elliott, as for the tab bar?
16:18:52 <elliott> Vorpal: If you won't use a browser because of a few pixels difference in where the tab bar is placed, I say you're making up excuses.
16:19:31 <Vorpal> elliott, also, I couldn't find advanced options for cookie acception last I looked. And is there a noscript for chrome? Adblock? Firebug?
16:19:41 <elliott> you can move the tabs to the side with dev channel IIRC
16:19:52 <elliott> Vorpal: noscript yes (built in even, but there are extensions too)
16:19:55 <elliott> adblock yes
16:20:00 <Vorpal> and firebug?
16:20:02 <elliott> firebug maybe. there's always the webkit inspector which works fine for me
16:20:06 <Vorpal> right
16:20:08 <elliott> and has basically the same features
16:20:24 <Vorpal> including modifying it on the fly?
16:20:25 <elliott> there is also http://getfirebug.com/releases/lite/chrome/
16:20:28 <elliott> Vorpal: um, duh.
16:20:29 <elliott> everything has that.
16:20:30 <Vorpal> ah
16:20:36 <elliott> firebug lite is shitty though imo
16:20:40 <elliott> the inspector works fine
16:20:44 <Vorpal> elliott, right, so what about the cookie stuff?
16:20:55 <elliott> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/?hl=en
16:20:56 <elliott> JFGI :P
16:21:10 <Vorpal> hm
16:21:10 <elliott> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/cfhdojbkjhnklbpkdaibdccddilifddb?hl=en ;; TOTALLY OFFICIAL (TM) adblock
16:21:44 <Vorpal> yep looks good
16:22:47 -!- copumpkin has joined.
16:23:05 <elliott> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/ppfdcmehpgiojcjgpclmfnbnpdmcmbgo ;; clearlooks scrollbars, not a full theme though :-p
16:24:16 <elliott> Vorpal: I recommend using the official repos btw on an distro that can. (the .deb from their frontpage just adds an apt repository, installs the chrome package, and self-destructs)
16:24:25 <elliott> chrome updates far more frequently than debian or ubuntu do :-P
16:24:52 <Vorpal> har
16:25:04 <Vorpal> elliott, well I found how to disable the thing in firefox
16:31:58 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ghnea/those_of_you_labeled_smart_how_has_it_affected_you/
16:32:01 -!- nooga has joined.
16:32:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit, impending sense of dread.
16:40:16 <Gregor> lolololFAIL
16:45:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's Well-Known(tm) that telling kids they're smart kills 'em :P
16:46:00 -!- azaq23 has joined.
16:46:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, at least my parents refuse to acknowledge that I am in any way talented.
16:49:00 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: QUITE RIGHT HUR HUR
16:49:11 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, -_-
16:50:18 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:50:30 <elliott> hi ais523
16:50:39 <ais523> hi
16:50:55 <ais523> theory: most houses are actually haunted, but by especially shy ghosts who never make their presence known
16:51:07 <elliott> i... okay
16:51:21 <Vorpal> ais523, sounds logical
16:51:32 <Vorpal> but why
16:51:40 <ais523> oh, it's just a theory
16:51:45 <ais523> but one that's kind-of hard to disprove
16:52:01 <Vorpal> yes
16:52:04 <elliott> it's not a theory
16:52:12 <elliott> even by the informal sense
16:52:15 <elliott> because it's not falsifiable
16:52:50 <Vorpal> also you mean hypothesis, not theory
16:52:52 <elliott> now, why is btr behaving wrongly?
16:53:03 <elliott> Vorpal: theory means hypothesis in informal conversation.
16:53:11 <Vorpal> yes
16:53:17 <elliott> otoh what ais523 said is just a religious belief, so it's a wild conjecture, not a theory or a hypothesis or anything :)
16:53:19 <Vorpal> which is wonderfully confusing
16:53:42 <Vorpal> elliott, not sure it is religious. Belief though yes.
16:53:50 <elliott> it is religious
16:53:56 <Vorpal> how so=
16:53:57 <Gregor> In the informal sense, basically any sequence of words is a theory, even nonsense :P
16:54:04 <Gregor> (That's my theory anyway HERP DURP)
16:54:08 <elliott> it's a superstitious belief only able to be taken on faith
16:54:20 <Vorpal> hm
16:54:31 <Vorpal> elliott, so yes it is conjecture indeed
16:54:33 <elliott> you could institute some kind of requirement for popularity to be a religious belief, but i don't think that'd hold up in practice
16:55:25 -!- Leonidas has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
16:55:45 -!- Leonidas has joined.
16:56:22 <elliott> hmm, wtf is u pwit hthis :/
16:56:53 <elliott> ok so it's going the wrong way around
16:56:55 <elliott> *up with this
16:57:30 <Vorpal> elliott, what are you talking about
16:57:35 <elliott> my forth
16:58:01 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
16:58:19 <Vorpal> ah
16:59:26 <elliott> possibly the first on-topic thing i've done in ever >:D
17:00:17 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> it's a superstitious belief only able to be taken on faith ← I wouldn't define religiousness purely on that basis.
17:00:26 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: "religious belief", not "religion"
17:01:58 <elliott> bleh
17:02:00 <elliott> olsner olsner olsner :D
17:02:34 <elliott> OH DUH
17:02:37 <elliott> that's why it's not working
17:02:39 <elliott> ...i'm a stupid fuck
17:04:29 <elliott> yes!
17:04:32 <elliott> integer reading works!
17:04:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Vorpal: now is your chance to convince me it needs to support hex
17:05:05 <elliott> also: in an unprecedented innovation, you can write your integers in packed-letter format
17:05:09 <elliott> just prefix a word with a 0!
17:05:15 <elliott> also, you can mix and match
17:05:24 <elliott> qw9f70 is a number. i'm not sure which.
17:06:05 <elliott> Well 6e2 is a block drawing character.
17:06:18 <elliott> 0qwe apparently fails to qualify for number status.
17:09:14 <elliott> Vorpal: Phantom_Hoover: ais523: WOULD YOU LIKE TO TRY OUT THE FRTH510 DEVELOPER'S PREVIEW
17:09:25 <ais523> elliott: not right now
17:09:33 <elliott> *gasp*
17:09:36 <Vorpal> elliott, maybe another day
17:09:37 <elliott> but it's only a 512 byte download!
17:09:39 <elliott> and implements SEVERAL words!
17:09:46 <elliott> it can entertain you for whole SECONDS with a simple qemu call!
17:09:58 <Vorpal> <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Vorpal: now is your chance to convince me it needs to support hex <-- it doesn't
17:10:18 <Vorpal> elliott, and I would need to install qemu
17:11:00 <elliott> Vorpal: bochs also works
17:11:07 <Vorpal> elliott, not installed either
17:11:14 <elliott> virtualbox...might work
17:11:15 <Vorpal> only have virtualbox around for virtualisation
17:12:23 <elliott> anyway how long does it take for you to install a package X-D
17:13:23 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: do YOU want to try
17:13:29 <Phantom_Hoover> NO
17:15:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: WHY NOT
17:16:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It isn't Forth, it only has six words, of which three you can actually use.
17:16:14 <Phantom_Hoover> The other three?
17:16:30 <elliott> One is broken and the other two have no discernable effects from inside the interpreter.
17:16:37 <elliott> Also I appear to have broken a word.
17:18:26 <elliott> SO THAT IT DOES WHAT YOU WANT
17:22:27 <Vorpal> elliott, develop the rest using that
17:22:31 <elliott> Vorpal: no :D
17:22:38 <Vorpal> aww, come on
17:22:42 <Vorpal> that was a wonderful idea
17:22:51 <elliott> with an assembler and a lot of patience it could be done.
17:23:08 <elliott> you'd want to poke the dictionary so that you have a new entry, "do stuff", that points to some code far away
17:23:12 <Vorpal> elliott, real men pokes memory directly. With a magnetic needle
17:23:24 <elliott> and then you could just modify that code by assembling it manually and poking the words in
17:23:30 <Vorpal> elliott, indeed
17:23:40 <Vorpal> elliott, how many bytes is it currently?
17:24:09 <elliott> 200 and something last I checked. it's going to expand, obviously, to grow a compiler and more words, but it's also going to contract as I microoptimise
17:24:21 <Vorpal> right
17:24:24 <elliott> I figured out the most ghetto possible way to do IF ... THEN
17:24:33 <Vorpal> elliott, test, jmp?
17:24:36 <Vorpal> cmov?
17:24:38 <elliott> not that simple
17:24:45 <elliott> in most forths, if leaves a special marker on the stack
17:24:49 <elliott> then goes back and twiddles it with the pointer to the THEN
17:24:50 <Vorpal> err not jmp obviously
17:24:52 <elliott> so that it knows where to jump to
17:24:54 <Vorpal> jne rather
17:24:56 <elliott> but with mine
17:24:58 <elliott> IF will just:
17:25:01 <elliott> (1) look at the call stack
17:25:04 <elliott> (2) read the calling word's code
17:25:14 <elliott> (3) skip past the call instructions until it finds the address of THEN
17:25:17 <elliott> (4) jumps there
17:25:18 <elliott> (if it's false, that is)
17:25:36 <elliott> so it works by inspecting the machine code that called it :D
17:25:43 <Vorpal> heh
17:25:52 <elliott> i'd like to see you do THAT in C
17:26:16 <Deewiant> Easy enough unless you meant portable C
17:26:24 <olsner> how will that cope with nested ifs?
17:26:30 <elliott> olsner: it won't
17:26:37 <olsner> o.O
17:26:41 <elliott> Deewiant: Good luck getting predictable enough code from the C compiler to manage that
17:26:46 <elliott> olsner: what's the need? you can just define multiple words
17:26:53 <elliott> olsner: iirc colorforth doesn't support nested ifs either
17:27:07 <elliott> (I'm also leaving out ELSE support for the same reason as colorforth; simpler to implement a separate return)
17:28:04 <olsner> in forth it's normal not to support nested ifs at all?
17:28:10 <elliott> olsner: not in *forth*
17:28:16 <elliott> colorforth hardly counts as normal forth :-D
17:28:37 <elliott> olsner: but anyway this lets me avoid any complicated "compile semantics".
17:28:42 <elliott> everything has one... semantic.
17:28:55 <elliott> apart from integer literals, which are treated specially by both interpreter and compiler :)
17:29:00 <olsner> aha
17:29:11 <elliott> (they are in a real forth, too, just they have a needless level of indirection (LITERAL))
17:29:39 -!- lament has joined.
17:29:45 <elliott> olsner: i think this also means that IF...THEN will fail badly in the interpreter :)
17:30:13 <elliott> since it'll try and look at the interpreter's source code, which is ofc free-form x86
17:30:23 <elliott> but who cares, define a temporary word!
17:31:16 -!- catseye has joined.
17:31:22 <elliott> hi
17:31:41 <catseye> hi
17:31:47 <olsner> cat's hi
17:31:57 <elliott> what is it with norwegians and puns
17:32:36 -!- catseye has set topic: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Ale) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
17:32:46 <elliott> catseye: fwiw, yoob feedback: for some reason, loading a new language hangs the thing for several seconds
17:32:51 <elliott> also clicking the about language button.
17:33:00 <elliott> it's quite disconcerting
17:33:06 <catseye> i'll work on it
17:33:16 <elliott> "ah. i see the problem. what we need is MORE SPEED"
17:33:22 <elliott> speed(); speed(); speed();
17:33:56 <catseye> it needs to load new classes in the background
17:33:57 <elliott> also i clicked edit in ale and the whole applet went white :D
17:34:22 <catseye> never seen that before
17:34:59 <Vorpal> <elliott> speed(); speed(); speed(); <-- that obviously has some call overhead without an inlining compiler! ;P
17:35:17 <elliott> catseye: hm right
17:35:18 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, any plans to add Lazy K :P
17:35:21 <elliott> catseye: if you click about -> done
17:35:26 <elliott> catseye: edit/reset/step/run become ungreyed
17:35:29 <elliott> for some reason
17:35:38 <elliott> and then clicking edit borks it
17:36:03 <catseye> i believe that
17:36:22 <elliott> actually i'm not sure why edit starts off greyed
17:36:29 <elliott> afaict it leaves no way to actually input an initial program
17:36:56 <elliott> also the brainfuck input thing reorders text if you type quickly :p
17:37:29 <catseye> um? the input thing is just a JTextArea...
17:37:41 <elliott> yes, but the implementation deletes characters from it and repositions the cursor as it goes
17:37:53 <elliott> so if you type faster than java can wake up and remove the characters, your typing gets out of order
17:38:01 <elliott> testing! can become ng!testi or whatever
17:38:18 <catseye> oh, the input box, not the program-editing box
17:38:20 <elliott> try typing hello world into revcat right as it starts
17:38:20 <elliott> right
17:40:37 <catseye> it needs to be a custom control of some kind, not a textarea.
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17:41:26 <Vorpal> I wonder why ls is called ls. After all it stands for list directory? Shouldn't it be ld or lsd then? Not sure why the linker is ld... Link Objects? Should be lo?
17:41:26 -!- copumpkin has joined.
17:41:37 <elliott> catseye: preferably just a box that can hold one char?
17:41:41 <elliott> and silently buffers them behind the scenes
17:41:55 <elliott> Vorpal: List Segments from Multics
17:41:56 <Deewiant> Vorpal: 'list segments'
17:42:05 <elliott> in Multics, (collection of) segment(s) = file
17:42:10 <Vorpal> Deewiant, ah
17:42:35 <elliott> dunno where ld comes from
17:42:39 <catseye> Vorpal: it was carefully chosen to produce a unique value in an existing perfect hash function
17:42:40 <Vorpal> hm
17:42:49 <Vorpal> catseye, heh :P
17:43:41 <catseye> Link on up Dem objects
17:43:47 <elliott> catseye: you should implement frth in yoob :-P
17:43:49 <Vorpal> hah
17:44:20 <ais523> elliott: linkers used to be called loaders
17:44:29 <ais523> and ld is a plausible abbreviation for "loader"
17:44:32 <elliott> ais523: hmm, right, I think the Multics one was a loader
17:46:58 -!- impomatic has joined.
17:47:01 <impomatic> Hi :-)
17:47:05 <elliott> omg impomatic heard
17:47:07 <elliott> i'm working on the forth
17:47:09 <elliott> he has spies
17:47:16 <ais523> wow, someone just made a 14-bit quantum register
17:47:22 <ais523> that's twice as much as the state of the art a few years ago
17:47:29 <elliott> ais523: they're second-class persons?
17:47:38 <elliott> is forcing the hand of a person allowed like that?
17:47:39 <Vorpal> <ais523> wow, someone just made a 14-bit quantum register <-- wow
17:47:44 <ais523> although they haven't hooked it up into an actual quantum computers
17:47:46 <ais523> *computer
17:47:48 <impomatic> Elliott: what precisely are you writing?
17:47:59 <elliott> impomatic: I'm continuing work on my 510-byte Forth.
17:48:13 <elliott> impomatic: I've added integer literals; after I fix this pesky bug, I'll be adding a compiler.
17:48:35 <elliott> impomatic: And then I will RULE THE WORLD
17:48:57 <impomatic> elliott: only until Itsy-Forth is released :-P
17:49:05 <elliott> impomatic: Will IT be 510 bytes of x86?
17:49:07 <elliott> I THINK NOT
17:49:12 <catseye> elliott: was "frth" a typo?
17:49:15 <elliott> catseye: no
17:49:19 <Gregor> Saves a byte :P
17:49:20 <catseye> i can't find it
17:49:23 <elliott> impomatic: TECHNICALLY all this work is superfluous; it has poke, you can just poke the program you want into memory and cause the interpreter to jump there with a well-placed additional poke. So I'm DONE ALREADY and it's like 200 bytes.
17:49:41 <elliott> catseye: that's because it's neither adequately specified, implemented entirely, or mentioned outside of here ever
17:49:44 <elliott> or indeed given a name
17:50:09 <catseye> frth = your 510-byte Forth?
17:50:16 <elliott> maybe :)
17:50:17 <Vorpal> elliott, do you mean FRTH? The fingerprint?
17:50:34 <elliott> catseye: space constraints are twisting it into, uh, something more than a little esoteric
17:50:48 <impomatic> elliott: it'll be as long as it needs to be, probably 1K. Otherwise it'll be missing some features.
17:50:53 <elliott> impomatic: WELL THEN!
17:51:21 <Vorpal> elliott, impomatic: you are both doing it wrong. Do it in VHDL
17:51:29 <impomatic> I could make it smaller if I didn't worry about strict ANS compatibility.
17:51:36 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: I'll have to implement something representing the functional/combinatorial world at some point. Lazy K is probably easier to implement than Unlambda. (guessing)
17:51:43 <elliott> impomatic: I reject your culture of demanding software spend bytes on implementing SO-CALLED ``features'' at the alter of NEEDLESS BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY.
17:52:04 <elliott> Yes, indeed, your BUREAUCRATIC programming style is OBSOLETE and OUTMODED! You would STEAL another 512 bytes from the user for no gain at all!
17:52:19 <ais523> catseye: Unlambda has a few features that more or less make it deliberately awkward to implement
17:52:36 <ais523> agreed, DOS is awesome, nothing should require an awesome thing
17:52:43 <elliott> xD
17:55:29 <elliott> wtf is with some of these bugs :/
17:55:31 <elliott> hmm oh wait
17:55:31 <elliott> hmm
17:55:46 <elliott> weird
17:57:49 <impomatic> It's not really possible to make the interpreter/compiler loop much smaller than 100 bytes.
17:58:39 <impomatic> By the way, there's a #forth channel :-)
17:58:52 <Vorpal> elliott, you know the freebsd bootloader has forth?
17:59:00 <elliott> Yeah?
17:59:02 <Vorpal> elliott, could your forth replace that one?
17:59:12 <Vorpal> to make the bootloader smaller
17:59:12 <elliott> impomatic: I know, but last time I was in it ams wouldn't shut up.
17:59:24 <elliott> impomatic: Also, err, my interpreter is smaller than that.
17:59:39 <impomatic> Hmmm... I'd be interested in seeing it.
17:59:40 <olsner> Vorpal: probably not without losing the remaining bootloader functionality :P
17:59:41 <elliott> Maybe like 50 bytes?
17:59:47 <Vorpal> olsner, hah
18:00:06 <elliott> impomatic: http://sprunge.us/JaXb Here's the currently-something's-broken version :P
18:00:14 <elliott> Those two commented out lines really should be there, there's just some weird bug I'm tracking down.
18:00:16 <catseye> the freebsd bootloader doesn't reside in the bootblock
18:00:27 <Vorpal> catseye, ah
18:00:28 <catseye> s/bootblock/MBR/
18:00:39 <elliott> impomatic: Unless you count the word reader and word finder (as in, dictionary lookup) in the byte count.
18:00:44 <elliott> impomatic: But since the compiler reuses them..
18:00:47 <elliott> *them...
18:01:21 <impomatic> My loop is compiler and interpreter. Probably why it's bigger.
18:01:25 <elliott> two example word bodies:
18:01:26 <elliott> fetch:pop bx
18:01:26 <elliott> push word [bx]
18:01:27 <elliott> next
18:01:29 <elliott> store:pop bx ; addr
18:01:31 <elliott> pop ax ; value
18:01:33 <elliott> mov word [bx], ax
18:01:35 <elliott> next
18:01:38 <elliott> impomatic: My compiler is a separate word; I'm curious, why are yours intertwined?
18:01:58 <elliott> (next is just xchg sp, bp; ret)
18:02:18 <impomatic> I keep the top stack entry in a register instead of on the stack. Makes some of the code smaller.
18:02:22 <elliott> (that store comes out to four bytes, btw)
18:02:26 <elliott> oh wait, slightly more
18:02:32 <elliott> 7 bytes
18:02:35 <elliott> (including next)
18:02:38 <impomatic> fetch: mov bx, word [bx]
18:02:43 <impomatic> next
18:02:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:02:55 <elliott> fetch is six bytes including next
18:03:07 <elliott> impomatic: Well, yeah, that makes some code shorter.
18:03:13 <elliott> impomatic: But the stack manipulation words would require more juggling.
18:03:20 <elliott> As well as pushes.
18:03:20 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:03:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
18:03:21 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:03:22 <elliott> So I'm not sure it pays off.
18:03:26 <elliott> impomatic: What's your NEXT?
18:03:28 <impomatic> store: pop word [bx]
18:03:32 <impomatic> pop bx
18:03:34 <impomatic> next
18:03:38 <elliott> impomatic: I'm doing subroutine threaded code, btw.
18:03:54 <elliott> Also, how does that store work at all...
18:03:54 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
18:04:13 <elliott> Isn't that reversed?
18:04:39 <elliott> thanks for the pop-to-dereference trick though :P
18:04:48 <elliott> store is now 6 bytes X-D
18:05:48 <impomatic> elliott: I have two different NEXT. At the moment I can do indirect of direct threaded.
18:05:56 <impomatic> of EQU or
18:06:08 <elliott> For me, subroutine threaded pays off massively.
18:06:16 <elliott> Because I can reuse the short x86 stack instructions.
18:06:37 <impomatic> You could use INT 3 for next. It's only 1 byte :-)
18:06:54 <olsner> so is ret...
18:08:46 <impomatic> How do you handle the return address if you're using the stack for other stuff?
18:08:58 <elliott> impomatic: xchg sp, bp :P
18:10:03 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:10:07 <impomatic> So each word starts and ends with xchg sp, bp?
18:10:27 <elliott> impomatic: No -- each word ends with it, and then a ret. Well, usually; as long as it ends up in the right place at the end it can do whatever it wants.
18:10:35 <elliott> impomatic: The initial swap is done by the interpreter loop I pasted.
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18:12:19 <catseye> this way you get nearly zero dB loss in the 100-500 KHz range, and only negligble dropout thereafter
18:12:46 -!- FireFly has joined.
18:13:00 <elliott> catseye: ...yes...what
18:13:26 <Sgeo> FireFly, Take my love, take my land
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18:14:08 <Vorpal> catseye, wrong channel?
18:14:19 <FireFly> I haven't even seen the series
18:14:34 * Sgeo mindboggles
18:14:47 <Vorpal> Sgeo, I haven't seen the series either
18:15:00 <Sgeo> Vorpal, you're not named after it, though
18:15:14 <Vorpal> Sgeo, uh... His nick is after the insect obviously
18:15:18 <Sgeo> (Yes, I know firefly is not just the name of a series)
18:15:44 <FireFly> I started using this nick long before I knew about the series :P
18:15:57 <Vorpal> catseye, touche
18:17:23 <Sgeo> So, how do I perform esoterica spells?
18:18:01 <Vorpal> Sgeo, usually you write a program in Malbolge that outputs an underload program that perform the task
18:18:04 <Vorpal> performs*
18:20:57 <catseye> can anyone refresh my memory: the lambdas in FALSE aren't proper closures, right? If I do like [n;] then change the value stored in n, executing that lambda won't give me the original value of n?
18:21:26 <elliott> um, that's unrelated to proper closures
18:21:29 <elliott> (define x 42)
18:21:32 <elliott> (define f (lambda () x))
18:21:36 <elliott> (set! x 24)
18:21:38 <elliott> (f) => 24
18:21:59 <elliott> since afaik all false vars are global
18:22:16 <elliott> catseye: more importantly, it's not a real false unless you support `... :)
18:22:39 <catseye> "can't properly close over values" then
18:23:18 <elliott> if you don't have local variables, then of course you can't close over values :)
18:23:32 <catseye> then, in my book anyway, you don't have closures
18:23:55 <catseye> but uh, you could close over globals by copying them when constructing the closure
18:24:09 <elliott> you can do it i'm sure! with `!
18:25:03 <elliott> somehow i don't get the impression catseye is rushing to implement ` either
18:25:16 <elliott> dunno why, 68000 emulator in java sounds like fun
18:25:29 <elliott> oh, you'd also have to require amiga OS files
18:25:31 <catseye> Catch sufficiently 68000 emulator in Java.
18:25:35 <elliott> yes.
18:27:24 <catseye> or, 68000-subset emulator in MBR. An unusually not mephitic project.
18:27:31 <catseye> I wonder how many instructions you could do.
18:29:24 <olsner> what's the deal with these "catch sufficiently"?
18:29:50 <catseye> I don't know.
18:31:55 <elliott> olsner: they're caught sufficiently
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18:32:19 <olsner> hmm, I'm obviously not catching sufficiently
18:33:03 <elliott> try catching more sufficiently
18:33:06 <elliott> an unusually not metphitic task
18:33:17 <elliott> and while you're at it, enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity!
18:33:18 <Vorpal> elliott, wtf is "metphitic"?
18:33:28 <Vorpal> elliott, oh are all these from the same source?
18:33:29 <elliott> olsner: have a nice kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen.
18:33:34 <elliott> Vorpal: no
18:33:43 <Vorpal> elliott, then what is the source of the other two=
18:33:49 <Vorpal> s/=/?/
18:33:52 <olsner> #esoteric? :)
18:33:54 <elliott> which other two
18:33:59 <catseye> those other two -->
18:34:12 <Vorpal> elliott, catching sufficiently and metphitic task
18:34:26 <elliott> former is recent esowiki spammer
18:34:43 <catseye> i thought that was the latter
18:35:04 <elliott> it's mephitic, please stop failing at spelling things right in front of you
18:35:06 <elliott> quite offensive
18:35:11 <elliott> ;D
18:35:55 <elliott> because society will never accept alternative lifestyles
18:36:01 <olsner> catseye: you're no snowflake, obviously you can't dance like one
18:36:05 <elliott> 2011-04-01.txt:11:41:30: <elliott> (diff) (hist) . . N Talk:Velato/‎; 05:01 . . (+169) . . (Talk) (Unusually not mephitic forum!!!! Epilogue to bookmarks. To a countless extent wares resource. Greatly much admins)
18:36:08 <elliott> so both were spammers.
18:36:13 <Vorpal> <elliott> it's mephitic, please stop failing at spelling things right in front of you <-- I copy pasted your line "<elliott> an unusually not metphitic task"
18:36:23 <elliott> oh
18:36:25 <elliott> *mephitic
18:36:26 <elliott> shameful of me
18:36:33 <Vorpal> elliott, :D
18:36:37 <olsner> all this discussion from a little typo...
18:36:47 <Vorpal> so what does mephitic mean?
18:37:01 <elliott> miasmic: of noxious stench from atmospheric pollution
18:37:01 <elliott> wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
18:38:16 <olsner> sweet, google has word definitions now
18:38:31 <elliott> impomatic: wanna debug my ugly asm? :D
18:38:37 <elliott> olsner: "define:x" has existed for years
18:38:39 <elliott> literally
18:38:41 <catseye> *mephitic asm
18:39:19 <olsner> elliott: true, but I don't want to have to remember having to add "define:"
18:39:36 <olsner> plus you only get crappy definitions with define:x
18:39:37 <elliott> why does this thing refuse to acknowledge mephitic solidity :/
18:39:42 <elliott> im gonna cry
18:39:52 <elliott> h^@¸^Gh^@<8c>^W¼ÿÿ½^@<80>è1^@1öë^G&Ç^D^@^@FFè-^@èF^@èt^@<83>ÿ^@t^Oh^U|<87>åÿe^D<87>åS<87>åëÜ&Ç^D?^GFFëÓ0À1ÿ¹ ^OóªÃ&fÇ^Do^Gk^G<89>ð³ öó@<^X^?^Eöã<89>ÆÃ1öëÚf1Û0äÍ^V&<88>^DF&Æ^D^GF< u^AÃfÁã^E,@$^_^HÃëâf^Oºë^_,00äkÛ
18:39:53 <elliott> ^AÃëÒ¿â|f9^]u^AÃ<83>=^@t^E<83>Ç^Fëð1ÿÃ<87>åè´ÿÃ[ÿ7<87>åÃ[<8f>^G<87>åÃX<87>å_P<87>åÿç<87>å_X<87>åPÿçX&<88>^DF&Æ^D^GF<87>åÃ^D}^^^@^@^@»|òQ^@^@Á|²=i^@Ê|4µ^B^@Ó|^\^@^@^@^@^@^@^@µ|
18:39:55 <elliott> lol how is it still that small
18:39:57 <Vorpal> <olsner> elliott: true, but I don't want to have to remember having to add "define:" <-- the non-crappy ones been around for years too
18:40:01 <elliott> how :|
18:40:31 <impomatic> elliott: I don't mind having a look for a few minutes.
18:40:40 <elliott> impomatic: trust me, you don't want to :)
18:40:43 <elliott> it's unbelievably hideous
18:41:01 <impomatic> I don't mind ugly code.
18:41:01 <elliott> wtf
18:41:04 <elliott> removing that dictionary entry fixed it
18:41:13 <elliott> 4+2 is 6 right? just checking
18:42:33 <impomatic> It can't be more ugly than this : C >R 256 15 16 1799 4 13107 2 21845 R> 4 0 DO TUCK OVER AND -ROT INVERT AND ROT / + LOOP ;
18:42:43 <elliott> ok, sent it in /msg, trade secret after all :P
18:42:46 <elliott> pertinent comment is at the bottom
18:42:48 <olsner> hmm, how would you noun mephitic? mephicity?
18:42:49 <elliott> ; If this is uncommented, then trying to execute @ (= 0) reports "?"
18:42:56 <elliott> olsner: no, that's the city of Mephi
18:43:06 <olsner> mephiticity?
18:43:06 <Vorpal> sometimes youtube fails badly: [download] 62.1% of 133.44M at 63.31k/s ETA 13:37
18:43:14 <elliott> impomatic: also, the other things that are commented out are commented out "permanently"
18:43:16 <Vorpal> note the video is about 6 minutes
18:43:18 <elliott> i.e. there are no debug hacks left in this
18:43:23 <Vorpal> there is no way that buffering could work here
18:43:28 <elliott> wait
18:43:29 <elliott> wtf
18:43:35 <elliott> oh no wait
18:43:36 <elliott> nm
18:43:38 <elliott> i thought it fixed itself
18:43:41 <elliott> but i forgot to uncomment the dictionary entry
18:43:55 <elliott> impomatic: basically I _think_ fword is somehow broken
18:44:09 <Vorpal> <impomatic> It can't be more ugly than this : C >R 256 15 16 1799 4 13107 2 21845 R> 4 0 DO TUCK OVER AND -ROT INVERT AND ROT / + LOOP ; <-- "DO TUCK OVER AND" look a bit like intercal somehow
18:44:27 <ais523> it's the DO followed by a bunch of caps, I think
18:44:31 <Vorpal> ais523, yep
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18:48:33 <Sgeo> elliott
18:48:43 <Sgeo> You're wanted in #esoteric-minecraft
18:48:58 <catseye> please say it isn't so
18:49:24 <Vorpal> catseye, what isn't so?
18:49:40 <catseye> anything, doesn't really matter
18:50:39 <Vorpal> catseye, ais523 theory about ghosts probably isn't so :P
18:50:43 <Vorpal> happy ?
18:51:43 <catseye> yes
18:51:44 <catseye> thanks
18:51:49 <catseye> what theory was that?
18:52:22 <catseye> involves Feather probably
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18:52:41 <elliott> no, just ghosts
18:52:44 <elliott> shy ghosts
18:58:33 <Gregor> I will summarize: Ghosts are all over the damn place, but they're fucking pussies.
18:58:41 <elliott> XD
18:58:44 <Gregor> Interpret the last two words in either of the two obvious ways.
19:00:07 <Vorpal> catseye, <ais523> theory: most houses are actually haunted, but by especially shy ghosts who never make their presence known
19:03:16 <catseye> this combines well with my theory that upon death, the human soul remains on earth but becomes remarkably timid
19:07:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Sam Hughes has a job now?
19:07:09 <Gregor> I preferred my statement of the "theory"
19:09:48 <elliott> sam hughes has always had a job ever
19:11:07 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
19:11:08 <catseye> "Sam Hughes (January 18, 1824–April 1, 1898) was the last great ophicleide player and one of the greatest who ever played the instrument in its short history."
19:11:15 <elliott> yes.
19:11:31 <elliott> he should set that as his twitter bio :D
19:11:31 <catseye> but now he's too shy and also non-corporeal so can't
19:13:05 <catseye> I had not heard of the ophicleide before. That's quite the instrumet.
19:13:08 <catseye> *instrument
19:14:01 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> sam hughes has always had a job ever ← what about the constant moaning about him not being able to get a job in the older entries?
19:14:06 <elliott> well i mean
19:14:09 <elliott> after time started beganning
19:14:11 <elliott> he jobbed
19:14:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Link to his Twitter, BtW?
19:14:41 <elliott> Meanwhile, internet commentators cannot resist being irritating snooty douchebags: "If I had a choice, I'd take NO beer. If I didn't have a choice, and was faced with the prospect of spending the rest of my life required to drink beer regularly, I'd probably drown myself in the waves."
19:14:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: http://twitter.com/qntm. He is forgiven for his slander against J THIS ONE TIME.
19:15:51 <Vorpal> catseye, now I have to google what "ophicleide" is
19:16:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, it's a weird brass thing.
19:16:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, and why isn't it played any more?
19:16:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Because there's only room for so many brass instruments?
19:17:01 <Phantom_Hoover> "Tau is the Dvorak of trigonometry."
19:17:04 <Vorpal> ah fair enough
19:17:08 <Phantom_Hoover> SAM HUGHES AGREES WITH ME HAH
19:17:16 <Phantom_Hoover> WHERE IS PIKHQ I MUST GLOAT
19:17:18 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, you like Dvorak music?
19:17:34 <Phantom_Hoover> *facepalm*
19:17:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Suspiciously plausible hypothesis proposed on Metafilter: Simon Pegg and Nick Frost are Sam Vimes and Fred Colon.
19:17:47 <elliott> *REDDIT
19:17:57 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh the keyboard layout?
19:20:24 <catseye> <Phantom_Hoover> SAM HUGHES AGREES WITH ME HAH
19:20:57 <elliott> catseye: mathematician, code monkey and hard-science-fiction author, before you possibly ask
19:21:34 <elliott> Gregor: It's like Evolution of Dance—a collection of kicky songs, just substitute dancing for the tribal drumming of a self-crafted PVC pipe instrument. 19 songs in 8 minutes. [more inside]
19:21:38 <elliott> Gregor: EVERYTHING PVC IS GREGOR RELATED
19:23:47 <catseye> I already TOLD you who Sam Hughes was, duh
19:23:52 <elliott> catseye: SAME GUY
19:25:23 <elliott> http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e8d9/ ;; thinkgeek, always like 17 years behind!
19:26:52 -!- augur has joined.
19:26:58 <olsner> 17 years eh?
19:27:04 <elliott> yes. :P
19:27:37 <lament> ouch http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e8b8/
19:27:51 <olsner> I wonder if the images have reached china or some other place stereotypically heartless towards pets and made someone try it for real
19:28:08 <elliott> lament: yeah well, sometimes a cigar is just a light saber
19:28:14 <elliott> olsner: WE CAN ONLY HOPE
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19:29:02 <Sgeo> I'm pretty sure TA-TK likes me :/
19:29:44 <Sgeo> She called me "babes" (outloud, so I don't know if she'd spell it like that) and "boo" and "swee" (I think that was cut off)
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19:31:49 <catseye> I am quite amused by the idea of a shelf in the library coming on to Sgeo.
19:32:12 <catseye> "TL-UA, on the other hand, won't give me the time of day..."
19:32:20 <elliott> BOOSWEE
19:32:43 <Sgeo> Oh, she said "my sweet"
19:32:48 <elliott> catseye: Man, you ain't lived til you been with some of dat Dewey decimal material
19:33:30 <catseye> Wait, since when does "I'm pretty sure <name> likes me" deserve to be followed by the emoticon ":/"?
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19:33:49 <ais523> depends on who :/
19:33:56 <Sgeo> catseye, since I've come to the conclusion a while ago that she's a boring idiot.
19:34:01 <elliott> I'm pretty sure Hitler likes me :/
19:34:01 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, well, a bookshelf would be blind and unable to move, so Sgeo would probably be attracted to it anyway.
19:34:02 <elliott> A lot :/
19:34:13 <catseye> Well I would think it would quantize to :) or :( pretty soundly in most cases, is all.
19:34:15 <elliott> Like, he's proposed to me and everything :/
19:34:20 <ais523> elliott: now I'm trying to mentally imagine a cross between :/ and !, interrobang-style
19:34:22 <elliott> And threatened to kill me if I don't marry him :/
19:34:29 <elliott> I am sort of neutral about this :/
19:34:46 <elliott> So wait, which one is TA-TK?
19:34:52 <elliott> Is that KT-AT?
19:34:52 <Sgeo> elliott, the "programmer"
19:34:55 <elliott> Or is another one TA-TK.
19:34:56 <elliott> I LOSE TRACK.
19:34:59 <Sgeo> Another one
19:35:00 <Sgeo> Not KT-AT
19:35:12 <Sgeo> Someone decided that "Other" was not a good enough moniker
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19:37:51 <elliott> Sgeo: Probably me
19:37:54 <elliott> HI OKLOPOL
19:37:56 <oklopol> hi.
19:37:57 <elliott> YOU'RE A MASTER
19:38:02 <elliott> literlaly loll
19:38:06 <oklopol> ahajhahahaha
19:38:17 <oklopol> ehheahehehehehehehehehehehaw
19:38:19 <oklopol> se
19:38:25 <elliott> kjnesfrdldfglvcx
19:38:28 <oklopol> t3q4w5yj6ue4tgqrthyetwrqgthekliuolikurjyeuio'p
19:38:29 <oklopol> r5deio'ple3't0sl5edoP
19:38:29 <oklopol> y'tf'g
19:38:30 <oklopol> hy8ftghgfduiohpjkp'o<
19:39:05 <olsner> suddenly: oklo
19:40:12 <Vorpal> <elliott> literlaly loll <-- laughing out loudly loud?
19:40:20 * catseye sticks "t3q4w5yj6ue4tgqrthyetwrqgthekliöäuolikurjyeuio'p" into Google Translate
19:40:33 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 3.5.18/20110319140258]).
19:40:42 <elliott> catseye: its clever for "asljasd"
19:40:42 <catseye> "Maltese to English translation"
19:41:10 * catseye clicks "Listen"!
19:41:17 <Vorpal> catseye, it means "Piranhas in your hovercraft"
19:41:41 <catseye> "Listen" is not working :(
19:41:59 <elliott> catseye: it is
19:42:03 <elliott> catseye: every letter in that sentence is silent
19:42:24 <catseye> every letter is pronounced as "Google fails to serve content to browser"
19:44:03 <elliott> yes
19:46:17 <Vorpal> hey I found a new "hat" for Gregor!
19:46:23 <Gregor> Uh oh
19:46:31 <Vorpal> Gregor, two new
19:46:40 <Vorpal> Gregor, http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/hats-ties/beac/ and http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/hats-ties/b53e/
19:48:06 <catseye> Wierd spec neither defines the size of values on the stack nor what happens if you try to pop an empty stack.
19:48:31 <catseye> wow, thinkgeek really makes me hate being alive
19:48:53 <Gregor> `addquote <catseye> wow, thinkgeek really makes me hate being alive
19:48:58 <HackEgo> 347) <catseye> wow, thinkgeek really makes me hate being alive
19:49:29 <olsner> catseye: why?
19:49:40 <Vorpal> catseye, heh
19:50:16 <elliott> <catseye> Wierd spec neither defines the size of values on the stack nor what happens if you try to pop an empty stack.
19:50:30 <elliott> catseye: just steal a convenient type of values on the stack from TURKEY BOMB
19:50:40 <olsner> catseye: what's wrong with the products?
19:50:45 <catseye> Also, Befunge-93 doesn't define what happens if you try to p or g outside of the 80x25 area
19:52:40 <catseye> Or if someone else tries that either!
19:53:35 <elliott> catseye: You should implement -98 next ;D
19:53:50 <elliott> Ooh, ooh, or jumping to -1 is exciting, my old language that NOBODY HAS EVER GIVEN ANY LOVE EVER
19:54:10 <ais523> elliott: that was yours?
19:54:16 <elliott> yes
19:54:29 <Vorpal> <elliott> catseye: You should implement -98 next ;D <-- what about the y coordinate issue you found?
19:54:32 <ais523> ouch
19:54:36 <elliott> ais523: what?
19:55:38 <elliott> I'm still not sure whether it's TC or not
19:56:13 <ais523> I haven't actually looked at it
19:56:15 <ais523> but the name's painful
19:56:21 <Vorpal> <elliott> Ooh, ooh, or jumping to -1 is exciting, my old language that NOBODY HAS EVER GIVEN ANY LOVE EVER <-- which language?
19:56:27 <elliott> Vorpal: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jumping_to_-1_is_exciting
19:56:30 <elliott> the syntax of that "spec" is
19:56:32 <Vorpal> elliott, *oh*
19:56:36 <elliott> command name stack trace -> result
19:56:40 <elliott> stack track = right-most is top of stack
19:56:47 <elliott> # is a pick type instruction thing
19:56:48 <Vorpal> elliott, *that* was that name
19:56:55 <elliott> Vorpal: wat
19:57:14 <Vorpal> elliott, I searched for "or jumping to -1 is exciting" :P
19:57:37 <elliott> X-D
19:58:13 <catseye> Vorpal: what y coordinate issue?
19:58:17 <Vorpal> blahbot` in #esoteric can run this.
19:58:21 <Vorpal> catseye, sec
19:58:25 <catseye> I'm implementing Wierd next, btw.
19:58:28 <catseye> It deserves it
19:58:54 <Vorpal> 1 vector containing the least point which contains a non-space cell, relative to the origin (env)
19:58:54 <Vorpal> 1 vector containing the greatest point which contains a non-space cell, relative to the least point (env)
19:58:54 <Vorpal> These two vectors are useful to give to the o instruction to output the entire program source as a text file.
19:59:02 <Vorpal> catseye, I remember elliott found some issue with that
19:59:07 <Vorpal> I forgot the details. Ask him
19:59:28 <elliott> dude we've been over this
19:59:31 <elliott> does it really matter :P
19:59:36 <ais523> I like Wierd, but also SNUSP
19:59:37 <Vorpal> elliott, well catseye doesn't know
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20:01:21 <catseye> I...that's one of the things FBBI still fails at. It doesn't shrink those bounds if you overwrite the edges with space.
20:01:27 <elliott> that's not the issue
20:01:32 <catseye> i realize that
20:01:37 <elliott> :p
20:01:42 <catseye> but no one is saying what the issue is
20:01:43 <Vorpal> catseye, I think it was something like the way it was written it meant that it wasn't usable by o in fact.
20:01:45 <elliott> cfunge breaks that too unless you compile it explicitly stating you want it to not be broken
20:01:56 <ais523> slowdown.b98 was designed to completely screw with that effect, IIRC
20:01:56 <elliott> catseye: <Vorpal> 1 vector containing the least point which contains a non-space cell, relative to the origin (env)
20:01:58 <elliott> catseye: that's not
20:02:00 <Vorpal> elliott, the default is for "not broken" there
20:02:01 <elliott> catseye: the top-left of the bounding box
20:02:07 <elliott> catseye: that's the least _occupied_ point
20:02:13 <elliott> the bounding box could be much bigger
20:02:23 <elliott> catseye: now, you could say that "these two vectors are useful to give to the o instruction" overrides this, but
20:02:29 <elliott> catseye: (1) "useful" is subjective,
20:02:29 <catseye> oh, ok
20:02:33 <elliott> catseye: (2) that's in italics,
20:02:40 <Vorpal> elliott, it isn't
20:02:41 <elliott> catseye: (3) the other sentences are far more precise than it
20:02:42 <catseye> no, i'm not saying that
20:02:43 <elliott> Vorpal: oh
20:02:44 <elliott> well whatever
20:02:45 <elliott> anyway
20:02:46 <Vorpal> not in http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/doc/funge98.html#Sysinfo
20:02:49 <elliott> <ais523> slowdown.b98 was designed to completely screw with that effect, IIRC
20:02:54 <elliott> ais523: no, it's just meant to create a huge fungespace
20:02:57 <elliott> so that wrapping takes ages
20:03:04 <ais523> elliott: doesn't it then remove the original program?
20:03:07 <ais523> or was that something else?
20:03:16 <elliott> i dunno, i think it's something to do with bounds though :)
20:03:25 <elliott> that cfunge with bounds shrinking doesn't handle
20:03:27 <elliott> but ccbi does
20:03:35 <elliott> (handle = without taking years)
20:04:02 <elliott> catseye: So is there an official Yoob API for implementing Yoobular Environments? :-P
20:04:04 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:04:05 <catseye> I don't plan to fix that in FBBI fwiw. The only thing left that I plan to fix is that it reports that { or something "pushes a strange storage offset" or something, without telling me what it is
20:04:27 <catseye> elliott: not yet. API still fluid
20:04:37 <catseye> and stupid
20:04:40 <elliott> catseye: bah. i'd prefer you locked it into a matrix of solidity!!!!
20:04:42 <elliott> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
20:04:52 <elliott> also are there plans to make the 2d editors more... 2d friendly
20:05:06 <catseye> not really
20:05:23 <elliott> at least make them work overwriting, not inserting?
20:05:45 -!- Slereah has joined.
20:06:15 <Vorpal> <catseye> I don't plan to fix that in FBBI fwiw. The only thing left that I plan to fix is that it reports that { or something "pushes a strange storage offset" or something, without telling me what it is <-- "without telling me what it is" is *very* typical of mycology
20:06:43 <catseye> The main purpose, for now, is to showcase the languages. If you are doing serious editing of programs in the languages, you're free to use an offline editor and copy and paste. (If you want to save your work, you have to do this anyway.)
20:07:42 <catseye> OK, I have a rudimentary implementation of Wierd, completely untested. I guess that'll be my next step, but... later
20:08:04 <elliott> Can you up the maximum speed, too? I'm watching this particularly slow program churn. :p
20:08:07 -!- Sadhu788543 has joined.
20:08:07 <catseye> And if there's a Befunge-111, y will reflect >:)
20:08:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:08:17 <catseye> elliott: it's on the todo list
20:08:19 <elliott> Befunge-111 should just specify everything :P
20:08:24 <elliott> FILE IO IS MANDATORY ... or preferably nonexistent
20:08:37 -!- Sadhu788543 has left.
20:08:53 <catseye> the spec should just be an implementation... in some horribly underspec'ed language
20:09:09 <elliott> say, python
20:09:26 <elliott> yoob's rng sucks. this befunge program will never end.
20:09:28 <catseye> yes. without giving a version number, too
20:09:36 <elliott> make it rely on python 1.5 quirks
20:09:36 <catseye> you're watching anagram, huh
20:09:39 <elliott> nope
20:09:47 <elliott> i modified hello to have some stupid directions and then a bunch of ?s
20:09:48 <elliott> in lines
20:09:49 <catseye> no? that one takes forever for me
20:09:50 <elliott> and stuff
20:09:54 <elliott> so i'm waiting for it to go back to real code
20:09:56 <catseye> i'm using Java's stock RNG, blame it
20:09:57 <elliott> rather than just dancing around the ?s
20:09:59 <elliott> :D
20:10:05 <elliott> that's why i want a higher max speed :-P
20:10:16 <catseye> ah, idea: allow you to specify a sequence to be used by the RNG...
20:10:29 * elliott puts a @ in a lone square on the board, surrounded by ?s
20:13:53 <elliott> catseye: post hitting @, buttons do not allow me to restart program. they act as if it's still running but stop is greyed out. weird.
20:13:56 <elliott> but i can edit and press done to fix.
20:14:00 <elliott> or maybe i'm just sleep-deprived
20:15:05 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:15:08 <elliott> hm this time it worked
20:16:23 <elliott> catseye: also you might want to reverse the stack display
20:16:28 <elliott> so that you don't have to scroll when the stack gets big
20:18:26 <elliott> haha, >_ is cool
20:18:31 <elliott> it holds the @ until it eats up all the stack :)
20:18:33 <elliott> or gets to a 0
20:18:40 <elliott> err
20:18:41 <elliott> not the @
20:18:42 <elliott> the ip
20:19:20 -!- Slereah has joined.
20:19:20 <catseye> reset should totally work after @... if it doesn't then, eh
20:19:26 <catseye> bugs bugs bugs
20:26:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:27:21 -!- zzo38 has joined.
20:31:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:34:30 <elliott> catseye: i can't seem to copy output
20:34:55 <catseye> probably you can't
20:36:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:36:50 <elliott> hmm, start does nothing, stop does nothing, both leave the program running :)
20:36:58 <elliott> wait no
20:37:01 <elliott> run makes it go twice as fast
20:37:03 <elliott> i am not shitting you
20:37:11 <ais523> haha
20:37:12 <catseye> yeah, probably started two execution threads
20:37:17 <catseye> i hit that once
20:37:33 <catseye> i have no idea how it gets into the state where that's possible
20:37:48 <elliott> so, strong-typed languages, eh
20:38:01 <catseye> so, threads, eh
20:38:17 <elliott> no specifically i'm now referring to the fact that i can't edit befunge-93 without the applet blanking :D
20:38:35 * elliott tries going through an example rather than the about screen
20:38:50 <catseye> ... don't use the about screen, then
20:39:04 <elliott> catseye: then why does it enable the edit button!
20:39:13 <catseye> you get what you pay for
20:40:16 <elliott> catseye: btw i think that in -93, ps and gs to x,y coords should be moduloed
20:40:24 <elliott> at least that makes random programs do more fun things ;D
20:41:08 <catseye> i think i have a headache :/
20:41:09 <catseye> later
20:41:11 -!- catseye has quit (Quit: leaving).
20:47:06 -!- zzo38 has left.
20:47:52 <Vorpal> <elliott> run makes it go twice as fast <-- that is so awesome
20:48:09 <olsner> starts out in walking mode, until you press run
20:48:42 <Vorpal> <catseye> yeah, probably started two execution threads <-- shouldn't that cause sync issues?
20:49:25 <Vorpal> olsner, :p
20:49:37 <Vorpal> <catseye> i think i have a headache :/ <-- wait, did you try to implement ais523's Feather?
20:50:10 <ais523> Vorpal: DON'T INFECT HIM TOO!
20:50:20 <Sgeo> Featherfeatherfeather
20:50:49 <Vorpal> ais523, :P
20:51:18 <Vorpal> ais523, you using caps like that feels so weird. Almost as much as if fizzie would...
20:53:29 <Vorpal> dwarf fortress has both "sandy loam" and "loamy sand"... I'm not sure what the difference is as such.
20:53:48 <Phantom_Hoover> It seems obvious to me.
20:53:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh?
20:54:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Sandy loam is predominantly loam, loamy sand predominantly sand.
20:54:18 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, both however work the same when it comes to in game mechanics
20:55:00 <fizzie> Vorpal: OH NO, IS THIS WEIRD?
20:55:29 <Vorpal> fizzie, well it fails, since it is triggered by this specific instance
20:55:36 <Vorpal> I mean, you doing it naturally
20:55:41 <Vorpal> like elliott does
20:58:04 -!- augur has joined.
20:58:42 <fizzie> Vorpal: 2009-03-09 01:21:53 <fizzie> elliott: WATER MEMORY.
20:58:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:59:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, that was more than two years ago!
20:59:15 <Vorpal> fizzie, it proves my point
20:59:18 <fizzie> 2011-01-22 14:15:17 <fizzie> PURE MADNESSNESS
20:59:19 <olsner> Vorpal: BUT THE WATER REMEMBERS
20:59:20 <elliott> BULLDOZER WEASELS
20:59:22 <oklopol> yes you have grown as a person
20:59:31 <Vorpal> fizzie, ah... okay
20:59:40 <Vorpal> fizzie, you don't do it very often though
20:59:42 <elliott> fizzie: you fabricated that quote. what pure madnessness.
21:00:06 <oklopol> <fizzie> I WOULD NEVER FABRICATE A QUOTE
21:00:08 <fizzie> Vorpal: There are several instances of one or two full-uppercase things but very few that would have nothing else.
21:00:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, it is the nothing else bit that counts
21:00:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, well, a nick is allowed
21:00:49 <elliott> `addquote <olsner> it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
21:00:53 <HackEgo> 348) <olsner> it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
21:01:01 <elliott> `quote 2002
21:01:02 <HackEgo> No output.
21:01:07 <elliott> `quote olsner
21:01:07 <Vorpal> elliott, wait, when did he say that
21:01:08 <HackEgo> 174) <nooga> i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages <olsner> even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok \ 221) <olsner> DAMN YOU, I'm leaving <Vorpal> olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! \ 237) <tswett> elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are
21:01:15 <elliott> Vorpal: 2010-11-01
21:01:21 <elliott> 15:44:47 <elliott> `addquote <olsner> it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
21:01:23 <elliott> never got added
21:01:34 <Vorpal> "<Vorpal> olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION!" <-- wait what?
21:01:44 * Vorpal looks
21:01:45 <Vorpal> ah
21:02:28 <elliott> `quote oklopol
21:02:29 <HackEgo> 37) <oklopol> i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 39) <oklopol> anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true <oklopol> should put that on my todo list \ 42) <oklopol> i'm my dad's unborn sister \ 55) <oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer? \ 67) <oklopol>
21:02:40 <elliott> `pastequotes oklopol
21:02:41 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9627
21:03:41 <elliott> 223) <oklopol> well i just ate some stuff and watched family guy <oklopol> and i own a piano <oklopol> and i'm not wearing socks
21:03:41 <elliott> poetry
21:03:51 <Vorpal> hah
21:04:35 <Vorpal> 110) <fax> oklopol geez what are you doing here <oklokok> ...i don't know :< <oklokok> i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things...
21:04:37 <Vorpal> heh
21:04:43 <Vorpal> elliott, who was fax now again?
21:04:51 <oklopol> that few quotes :o
21:04:55 <elliott> soupdragon quantumEd MissPiggy j-invariant etc. etc. etc.
21:05:00 <elliott> no wait
21:05:00 <elliott> omg
21:05:01 <elliott> finally
21:05:04 <elliott> a chance to use the best latin
21:05:05 <oklopol> i thought there were many quotes of me
21:05:05 <elliott> *et alia
21:05:07 <Vorpal> eh?
21:05:08 <elliott> oklopol: there are
21:05:10 <Vorpal> `pastequote olsner
21:05:11 <HackEgo> No output.
21:05:12 <elliott> oklopol: because yours are all the best
21:05:15 <elliott> Vorpal: pastequotes
21:05:15 <Vorpal> what
21:05:18 <Vorpal> ah
21:05:21 <oklopol> elliott: so that was not all?
21:05:21 <Vorpal> `pastequotes olsner
21:05:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10188
21:05:32 <elliott> oklopol: that was all. they were best.
21:05:35 <Vorpal> elliott, "348) <olsner> it is from 2002 though, I was younger then" is there
21:05:38 <elliott> `pastequotes ehird|elliott|alise
21:05:40 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1469
21:05:47 <elliott> wooo
21:05:50 <elliott> i'm the master of the quotes
21:05:54 <Vorpal> elliott, the issue is that `quote 2002 looks for *quote number 2002*
21:05:54 <oklopol> but that's so few, i thought there'd be at least 10 more
21:05:58 <elliott> Vorpal: o rite :D
21:06:00 <elliott> `quote (2002)
21:06:01 <HackEgo> 348) <olsner> it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
21:06:10 <elliott> oklopol: well keep saying funny things
21:06:15 <Vorpal> elliott, regex?
21:06:18 <elliott> Vorpal: yes
21:06:20 <elliott> 19) <oerjan> ehird has gone insane, clearly.
21:06:21 <Vorpal> right
21:06:21 <elliott> err
21:06:23 <elliott> am i missing something
21:06:25 <elliott> i don't get the jok
21:06:26 <elliott> e
21:06:41 <elliott> `pastequotes <ehird|elliott|alise>
21:06:42 <oklopol> i guess i'll have to get depressed another day
21:06:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27220
21:06:43 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah it doesn't seem funny at all. Just a matter of fact. :P
21:06:46 <elliott> (only want quotes actually directed at me)
21:06:55 <elliott> anyone mind if i remove it, we have Standards
21:06:58 <elliott> oklopol: does depressed=funny?
21:07:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:07:10 <elliott> `pastequotes <(ehird|elliott|alise)>
21:07:11 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10749
21:07:20 <oklopol> actually i thought depressed = not funny, but then i realized oerjan is all about jokes
21:07:26 <elliott> `pastequotes <(ehird|elliott|alise)>
21:07:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2939
21:07:28 -!- azaq23 has joined.
21:07:30 <tswett> `quote oklopol
21:07:31 <oklopol> not that he's all that funny
21:07:31 <HackEgo> 37) <oklopol> i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 39) <oklopol> anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true <oklopol> should put that on my todo list \ 42) <oklopol> i'm my dad's unborn sister \ 55) <oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer? \ 67) <oklopol>
21:07:35 <elliott> why is this not working
21:07:36 <elliott> WHY
21:07:37 <elliott> WHYYYYY
21:07:41 <elliott> `pastequotes \<(ehird|elliott|alise)\>
21:07:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13301
21:07:46 <Vorpal> <oklopol> not that he's all that funny <-- is he depressed?
21:07:47 <tswett> `quote lawl
21:07:48 <HackEgo> 85) <@Lawlabee> Why does Monday start at 10PM on Sunday? \ 94) <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. \ 95) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :( \ 112) <Warrigal> Making a small shrine to Lawlabee
21:07:52 <elliott> tswett: protip pastequotes
21:07:54 <elliott> (WHEN IT WORKS)
21:07:56 <oklopol> Vorpal:
21:08:02 <elliott> `quote <(ehird|elliott|alise)>
21:08:03 <HackEgo> No output.
21:08:06 <elliott> `quote <(ehird|elliott|alise).*>
21:08:06 <Vorpal> oklopol, yes?
21:08:07 <HackEgo> No output.
21:08:07 <tswett> Okay.
21:08:11 <tswett> `quote 112
21:08:12 <oklopol> No output.
21:08:12 <HackEgo> 112) <Warrigal> Making a small shrine to Lawlabee in my basement is something I should get around to at some point.
21:08:14 <elliott> `quote <ehird>|<elliott>|<alise>
21:08:15 <HackEgo> No output.
21:08:17 <elliott> :|
21:08:20 <elliott> `quote <ehird>
21:08:21 <HackEgo> No output.
21:08:23 <elliott> `quote <elliott>
21:08:24 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:08:24 <HackEgo> No output.
21:08:24 <tswett> Why did I say that?
21:08:29 <elliott> `quote \<elliott\>
21:08:29 <HackEgo> No output.
21:08:37 <Vorpal> <oklopol> No output. <-- you what
21:08:39 <oklopol> i should prolly go to work
21:08:39 <elliott> `quote [<]elliott[>]
21:08:40 <HackEgo> No output.
21:08:46 <elliott> oisdjosidjfoisjfsjfosijdfoisjdfiojdofjisf
21:08:47 <elliott> oisjfosdjf
21:08:47 <elliott> soijf
21:08:47 <elliott> soifj
21:08:50 <elliott> `url bin/quote
21:08:51 <oklopol> okokokokokoko
21:08:52 <oklopol> okokokoko
21:08:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote
21:08:53 <oklopol> okoko
21:08:54 <oklopol> o
21:09:04 <tswett> Whuff whuff whuff wharrgarbl.
21:09:06 <Vorpal> `ls
21:09:09 <HackEgo> babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine \ quotes \ test \ test.c \ tmpdir.19865
21:09:11 <elliott> `run egrep -i "<(elliott|alise|ehird)>" quotes
21:09:12 <HackEgo> <ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers \ IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! \ SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO):
21:09:21 <elliott> `run allquotes | egrep -i "<(elliott|alise|ehird)>" | paste
21:09:23 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4003
21:09:29 <elliott> tada
21:09:38 <tswett> `ls bin
21:09:39 <HackEgo> addquote \ allquotes \ botsnack \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ esolang \ etymology \ fuck \ google \ imdb \ json \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ penis \ ping \ quine \ quote \ quotes \ rec \ roll \ runasperl \ runfor \ rungcc \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate
21:09:46 <tswett> `penis
21:09:47 <HackEgo> I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals.
21:09:47 <Vorpal> elliott, why didn't it work?
21:09:51 <elliott> Vorpal: god knows
21:09:55 -!- sftp has joined.
21:09:55 <oklopol> it's raining!
21:09:58 <Vorpal> elliott, should be debugged?
21:10:04 <tswett> What is babies?
21:10:29 <Vorpal> `whatis
21:10:30 <HackEgo> whatis what?
21:10:34 <Vorpal> hah
21:10:36 <Vorpal> `whatis babies
21:10:37 <HackEgo> No output.
21:10:41 <elliott> `man ed! ed man
21:10:42 <HackEgo> No output.
21:10:42 <Vorpal> well there, you know
21:10:47 <oklopol> tswett: babies is little human
21:10:48 <elliott> `whatis love
21:10:49 <HackEgo> No output.
21:10:50 <elliott> `baby dont hurt me
21:10:51 <HackEgo> No output.
21:10:54 <elliott> `dont hurt me
21:10:54 <HackEgo> No output.
21:10:55 <elliott> `nomore
21:10:56 <tswett> `cat babies
21:10:56 <HackEgo> No output.
21:10:56 <Vorpal> `whatis whatis
21:10:57 <HackEgo> No output.
21:10:58 <HackEgo> No output.
21:11:05 <Vorpal> `type whatis
21:11:06 <HackEgo> No output.
21:11:06 <tswett> I'm not sure `cat actually works.
21:11:12 <Vorpal> `type babies
21:11:12 <HackEgo> No output.
21:11:27 <Vorpal> `run type whatis
21:11:27 <fizzie> elliott: I think you get a syntax error from if [ "$(($1+0))" = "$1" ] .
21:11:28 <HackEgo> whatis is /usr/bin/whatis
21:11:33 <Vorpal> `run whatis whatis
21:11:33 <HackEgo> No output.
21:11:34 <Vorpal> why
21:11:40 <Vorpal> Gregor, why doesn't whatis work?
21:11:59 <Gregor> Because it hates you.
21:12:00 <fizzie> `run bin/quote '<elliott>' 2>&1
21:12:01 <HackEgo> bin/quote: line 3: <elliott>+0: syntax error: operand expected (error token is "<elliott>+0") \ /usr/bin/nl: write error: Broken pipe
21:12:04 <fizzie> See, like that.
21:12:05 <Vorpal> Gregor, no man pages installed?
21:12:11 <Gregor> No.
21:12:14 <elliott> fizzie: WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD FIX IT SMARTARSE :|
21:12:20 <elliott> fizzie: (thx for finally finding the elusive bug)
21:12:31 <elliott> fizzie: I propose "sed", it's how I wrote the thing after all. Well, that and echo.
21:12:50 <elliott> Mayhaps $(("$1"+0)) would suffice?
21:13:02 <Vorpal> why do you need the +0?
21:13:37 <elliott> to see if it's a numbra
21:13:44 <Vorpal> ah
21:13:47 <elliott> `run echo $(("nozzles >-4"+0)
21:13:48 <HackEgo> No output.
21:13:48 <elliott> `run echo $(("nozzles >-4"+0))
21:13:49 <HackEgo> No output.
21:13:52 <elliott> `run echo $(("nozzles >-4"+0)) 2>&1
21:13:53 <HackEgo> No output.
21:13:58 <elliott> `run bash -c 'echo $(("nozzles >-4"+0))' 2>&1
21:13:59 <HackEgo> /bin/bash: "nozzles >-4"+0: syntax error: operand expected (error token is ""nozzles >-4"+0")
21:14:14 <fizzie> I don't actually know how it manages to work for most non-numbers.
21:14:19 <elliott> `url bin/quote
21:14:19 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote
21:14:20 <elliott> fizzie: It doesn't.
21:14:49 <Vorpal> elliott, use bash regex match
21:15:17 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/if [ "$(($1+0))" = "$1" ]; then/if expr "$1" + 0 2>/dev/null; then/' bin/quote
21:15:18 <HackEgo> No output.
21:15:27 <elliott> darn, didn't replace
21:15:37 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/if \[ "$(($1+0))" = "$1" \]; then/if expr "$1" + 0 2>/dev/null; then/' bin/quote
21:15:38 <HackEgo> No output.
21:15:52 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/if \[ "$\(\($1+0\)\)" = "$1" \]; then/if expr "$1" + 0 2>/dev/null; then/' bin/quote
21:15:53 <Vorpal> elliott, you fail at sed
21:15:53 <HackEgo> No output.
21:15:54 <elliott> ESCAPE EVERYTHING
21:15:56 <oklopol> what if i had like an epileptic fit and tried to get help here, i bet you bastards would just let me die
21:16:00 <elliott> oklopol: yep
21:16:01 <Vorpal> elliott, $ needs to be escaped
21:16:09 <oklopol> i hate you
21:16:12 <oklopol> i knew it
21:16:21 <oklopol> erm switch those
21:16:24 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/ if.*/ if expr "$1" + 0 2>/dev/null; then/' bin/quote
21:16:25 <HackEgo> No output.
21:16:30 <elliott> wtf
21:16:32 <elliott> how did that not work
21:16:38 <elliott> oh
21:16:39 <elliott> dur
21:16:46 <elliott> `run sed -i 's! if.*! if expr "$1" + 0 2>/dev/null; then!' bin/quote
21:16:47 <HackEgo> No output.
21:17:00 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:17:01 <elliott> `run bin/quote '<elliott>' 2>&1
21:17:02 <HackEgo> 229) <elliott> Vorpal loves the sodomy. <Vorpal> elliott, sure why not \ 230) <elliott> [...] ALWAYS OPEN TO TRYING NEW THINGS. \ 231) <elliott> So it's not exactly trivial. [Later about same thing] <elliott> It's a trivial C program :P \ 239) <elliott> ONLY GOOD QUOTES PLEASE! AND NO FAKE ONES EITHER! \ 240) * pikhq sticks
21:17:05 <elliott> YAY
21:17:09 <Gregor> elliott: I love your HackEgo-editing style.
21:17:11 <elliott> `quote trivial C
21:17:11 <HackEgo> 231) <elliott> So it's not exactly trivial. [Later about same thing] <elliott> It's a trivial C program :P
21:17:12 <elliott> Gregor: I DO TOO
21:17:24 <elliott> Gregor: It makes me feel so manly, 'cuz you know what, I could do that on an actual teletypewriter.
21:17:31 <elliott> Well, with a live "cat" window :P
21:17:43 <elliott> It makes me feel so 70S.
21:18:27 <ais523> elliott: it's trivial, but not exactly trivial
21:18:40 <elliott> let's find out how profane we are!
21:18:50 <elliott> `pastequotes shit|fuck|crap|dammit|damn
21:18:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8277
21:18:58 <elliott> (Worst list of top-of-head curses ever.)
21:19:03 <Vorpal> I wonder if you could get a current going in a ring shaped super-conductor
21:19:04 <oklopol> poopie
21:19:06 <elliott> answer: not as profane as i thought
21:19:09 <elliott> `quote poopie
21:19:10 <HackEgo> No output.
21:19:19 <elliott> `addq... no, i can't
21:19:20 <HackEgo> No output.
21:19:24 <elliott> it would just be too low
21:19:49 <elliott> 280) <Vorpal> ooh I want to see ehird pole dancing <ehird> I think that would be illegal. <Vorpal> oh you are right <Vorpal> damn :/
21:19:49 <elliott> i still have no idea what that was about
21:20:00 <Vorpal> elliott, nor do I
21:20:02 <elliott> also, i think the best feature of my quote system is that whenever you delete a quote
21:20:08 <elliott> every quote after it gets renumbered
21:20:10 <elliott> it's wonderfully confusing!
21:20:16 <Vorpal> elliott, that is like the worst thing
21:20:23 <elliott> the best thing
21:20:28 <elliott> it's the most Unixy way to implement it ;DDD
21:20:39 <Vorpal> elliott, lets agree on the middle ground
21:20:44 <Vorpal> it is the most thing
21:20:47 <elliott> deep
21:20:49 <ais523> why do they even have numbers?
21:20:52 <Vorpal> elliott, thanks
21:21:00 <elliott> ais523: umm...because...err...fuck you
21:21:06 <elliott> mostly for seeing the whole thing in search results i think :D
21:21:18 <oklopol> i read that as "why do they have even numbers"
21:21:25 <oklopol> thought it was a philosophical question
21:21:42 <oklopol> i guess it could've been philosophical as it is
21:21:52 <olsner> why even do they numbers have?
21:22:26 <elliott> wombats
21:22:29 <elliott> wombats have countries!
21:23:14 <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny
21:23:24 <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D
21:23:29 <oklopol> can't sopt laughitn
21:23:32 <ais523> err, I can't think of anything funny to say right now
21:23:41 <ais523> but I'll retroactively edit the above line to be funny when I get Feather working
21:23:52 <elliott> ais523: i'm going to addquote that now
21:24:00 <elliott> ais523: soon you will learn not to say unfunny things!
21:24:03 <oklopol> my feather joke the other day was way better than that
21:24:08 <ais523> oklopol: indeed, that isn't funny
21:24:10 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:24:11 <HackEgo> 349) <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:24:13 <HackEgo> Failed to record changes.
21:24:14 <ais523> but it will be eventually!
21:24:16 <elliott> another oklopol quote -- aiee!
21:24:18 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:24:19 <HackEgo> 349) <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:24:20 <HackEgo> Failed to record changes.
21:24:23 <elliott> Gregor: ENCODING SHIT
21:24:24 <oklopol> that was not very good :D
21:24:28 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:24:28 <HackEgo> 349) <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:24:30 <HackEgo> Failed to record changes.
21:24:30 <oklopol> it wasn't even a joke man
21:24:32 <elliott> Gregor: FFFF
21:24:34 <elliott> Gregor: DEFAIL IT
21:24:47 <Gregor> Argh, what have you done here
21:25:07 <elliott> Gregor: oklopol uses latin-1, BUT
21:25:11 <elliott> I retyped out the second try by hand
21:25:14 <elliott> so that was utf-8
21:25:29 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:25:30 <HackEgo> 349) <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:25:31 <HackEgo> Failed to record changes.
21:25:33 <elliott> yeah
21:25:37 <elliott> teh b0rk3lde
21:25:47 <Gregor> That's odd, the repo seems to be fine >_>
21:25:58 <oklopol> okay that thing is getting funnier by the minute
21:25:59 <olsner> elliott: "borkelde"?
21:26:03 <elliott> <Gregor> I didn't just override that quote because I hate oklopol <_<
21:26:23 <elliott> <Gregor> And I'm not just doing this out of my badly-concealed lust for him >_>
21:26:27 <elliott> <Gregor> <_< >_>
21:26:33 <elliott> olsner: yes.
21:26:42 <Vorpal> <elliott> <Gregor> I didn't just override that quote because I hate oklopol <_< <-- whaaat?
21:26:46 <elliott> oklopol: look at the kinda things gregor says in teh /msgss! ^^
21:26:48 <Vorpal> you made that up right?
21:26:51 <elliott> Vorpal: NO
21:26:54 <elliott> and not the lust parts either
21:26:56 <elliott> it's all true
21:26:59 <Vorpal> elliott, log link
21:27:04 <elliott> like i said
21:27:04 <elliott> /msg
21:27:10 <Vorpal> ah well
21:27:19 <elliott> and i use a vt100 so i can't take a screenshot SORRY
21:27:20 <Vorpal> elliott, I don't believe it, until confirmed from Gregor
21:27:29 <elliott> like he'd admit his true desires :(
21:27:34 <elliott> when all this time he's learned to bottle them away
21:27:36 <Vorpal> suuure
21:27:37 <oklopol> you don't believe Gregor wants to have sex with me?
21:27:43 <Vorpal> oklopol, nope
21:27:48 <oklopol> eh
21:27:50 <elliott> yeah doesn't every straight male want to have sex with oklopol
21:27:51 <elliott> ...wait
21:27:55 <Gregor> `run echo nicode! > test
21:27:55 <HackEgo> No output.
21:27:56 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:27:57 <HackEgo> Failed to record changes.
21:28:01 <Gregor> wtfbbq ...
21:28:13 <elliott> `run echo bork bork bоrk >test
21:28:14 <HackEgo> No output.
21:28:15 <HackEgo> Failed to record changes.
21:28:17 <elliott> Gregor: ...
21:28:26 <Gregor> O_O
21:28:27 <elliott> `run echo bork bork bork >test
21:28:28 <HackEgo> No output.
21:28:35 <elliott> Gregor: JUST FUCKING WITH YOU, that was a Cyrillic o
21:28:35 <Vorpal> whaaat
21:28:38 <elliott> ;D
21:28:42 <Vorpal> oh
21:28:43 <Gregor> elliott: Jackass :P
21:28:46 <elliott> `rm test
21:28:47 <oklopol> actually i do know a straight male who wants to have sex with me
21:28:47 <HackEgo> No output.
21:28:50 <Gregor> OH, I know what the issue is.
21:29:01 <elliott> oklopol: he's just (hetero+oklo)sexual amirite
21:29:52 <Gregor> `run echo nicode! > test
21:29:53 <HackEgo> No output.
21:29:56 <Gregor> `cat test
21:29:57 <HackEgo> nicode!
21:29:58 <oklopol> i haven't asked in detail, because he's a random internet dude
21:30:29 <elliott> `rm test
21:30:29 <HackEgo> No output.
21:30:34 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:30:35 <HackEgo> 349) <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
21:30:57 <Vorpal> whaat: 07:62/05:34
21:31:02 <Vorpal> I think vlc is broken
21:31:21 <elliott> that happens a lot with inaccurate files
21:31:23 <Vorpal> and that second counter is counting up. At second rate.
21:31:23 <elliott> file formats
21:31:25 <elliott> what file format is it?
21:31:29 <Vorpal> elliott, flac...
21:31:32 <elliott> hmm
21:31:38 <Vorpal> elliott, the file must be broken
21:31:40 <elliott> i think flac _does_ include such precise information, but it can get messed up
21:31:41 <elliott> yeah
21:31:44 <elliott> flac -d and reencode
21:31:52 <Vorpal> elliott, but 07:62
21:31:57 <Vorpal> I mean, the 62 bit
21:31:59 <elliott> oh
21:31:59 <Vorpal> come on
21:32:00 <elliott> lol :D
21:32:05 <elliott> Vorpal: well vlc sucks and stuff :)
21:32:22 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah re-encoding atm
21:32:44 <Vorpal> elliott, mplayer is rather annoying. And totem doesn't play a lot of stuff
21:32:44 <elliott> incidentally arch seem to have made their first good decision lately :)
21:32:50 <Vorpal> and xine is hideous
21:32:51 <elliott> to not consider switching to the libav fork
21:33:01 <Vorpal> elliott, what libav fork?
21:33:08 <elliott> background for those who haven't been following: a group of ffmpeg devs were unhappy with the maintainer
21:33:14 <elliott> so they literally tried to perform a coup d'etat
21:33:21 <elliott> they changed the repo url, the project leaders, etc. on the website
21:33:23 <elliott> from underneath the maintainer
21:33:27 <Vorpal> ouch
21:33:28 <elliott> this understandably cause a lot of upset
21:33:37 <Vorpal> what did the maintainer do?
21:33:39 <elliott> so after about two months of the hostility of two factions sharing the same list
21:33:49 <elliott> the coup d'etatters (THAT'S A WORD) decided to "rename" ffmpeg
21:33:51 <elliott> to libav
21:33:59 <elliott> so they posted a name saying our "new release" is under the "new name" libav
21:34:04 <elliott> then -- and this is where it gets insane --
21:34:10 <elliott> they say the mailing list is being "renamed and moved"
21:34:14 <Vorpal> wait, it is already insane
21:34:14 <elliott> and so the ffmpeg list will be "shut down shortly"
21:34:18 <elliott> and you will be automatically subscribed to the libav list
21:34:24 <elliott> that ffmpeg list was STILL BEING USED by the original maintainers
21:34:24 <Vorpal> elliott, ... that's silly
21:34:26 <elliott> and developers
21:34:32 <elliott> Vorpal: more than silly, it's childish and bullshit
21:34:36 <Vorpal> yes
21:34:37 <elliott> a gentoo dev was one of the forkers, FWIW
21:34:50 <Vorpal> elliott, I NO LONGER USE GENTOO!
21:34:51 <elliott> Vorpal: anyway, fabrice bellard controls the DNS and so handed it back to the original maintainer
21:34:54 <elliott> ;D
21:35:02 <Vorpal> elliott, that name is familiar
21:35:08 <elliott> umm, qemu and ffmpeg founder
21:35:11 <elliott> and tcc author
21:35:13 <Vorpal> ah yes
21:35:13 <elliott> and god
21:35:21 <olsner> what, same guy?
21:35:31 <elliott> it seems like the original maintainer caused some problems but at most that justifies a fork, not a failed hostile takeover followed by trying to systematically shut down the original project's resources
21:35:31 <elliott> olsner: yes
21:35:40 <Vorpal> olsner, yes he is one of those awesome guys. Like djb
21:35:41 <elliott> olsner: also discoverer of bellard's formula for pi
21:35:52 <Vorpal> and jwz
21:35:55 <elliott> (wp says 43% faster than BBP)
21:35:59 <olsner> elliott: lucky guy, discovering something that had his name on it!
21:36:04 <elliott> also multiple time IOCCC winner
21:36:08 <elliott> olsner: :D
21:36:59 <elliott> Vorpal: anyway yeah, there was a thread on the arch forums (i idly browse every now and then out of morbid curiosity) and one of the devs basically said "i don't like forks so we're not going to consider it" :P
21:37:12 <elliott> thus, i eagerly look forward to arch replacing xorg with xfree86
21:37:20 <Vorpal> elliott, har har
21:37:29 <elliott> BLEEDING EDGE
21:37:32 <Vorpal> elliott, what was the original dispute about?
21:37:40 <oklopol> okay bye ->
21:37:44 <elliott> Vorpal: the maintainer being a pain about applying patches basically
21:37:48 <elliott> single point of control, etc.
21:37:52 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:38:00 <Vorpal> elliott, ah... Could be time to fork yes, but in a less childish way
21:38:03 <elliott> but i don't find it very relevant; i can't really sympathise with them considering the childishness
21:38:16 <elliott> Vorpal: afaict they didn't even bother trying to have a serious discussion about it first
21:38:17 -!- aloril has joined.
21:38:23 <Vorpal> elliott, *whops*
21:38:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:39:38 <elliott> Vorpal: seriously though, as a GENTOO USER (;D;D;D), why did they drop support for static linking>
21:39:40 <elliott> *linking?
21:39:49 <elliott> if i could tell gentoo to statically link everything with musl i might even use it :-D
21:39:56 <Vorpal> elliott, musl?
21:40:02 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I have no idea
21:40:05 <elliott> http://www.etalabs.net/musl/
21:40:12 <Vorpal> elliott, besides wasn't it just a few packages that supported it?
21:40:26 <elliott> Vorpal: i think you used to be able to build a whole static system?
21:40:39 <elliott> anyway gentoo doesn't really have any merits if you can't control every variable of the system :)
21:40:51 <Vorpal> elliott, with some CFLAGS hacking probably
21:41:01 <elliott> (considering that "this optimisation flag" vs. "this other optimisation flag" doesn't even count as a variable due to being irrelevant)
21:41:05 <Vorpal> elliott, there were some static use-flags before I know
21:41:14 <elliott> (every (32-bit x86) debian package runs on a 386!)
21:41:27 <elliott> (don't see people going around claiming debian is slow :))
21:41:33 <elliott> though maybe they do and i just haven't run into them
21:41:39 <Vorpal> elliott, libc comes in multiple variants though
21:41:43 <olsner> don't those people all use gentoo?
21:42:00 <elliott> Vorpal: uh? not ereally
21:42:08 <elliott> just libc6-i386 here, oh wait this is the 64-bit repo
21:42:09 <elliott> s
21:42:14 <Vorpal> elliott, yes, cmov one
21:42:15 <elliott> the kernel comes in multiple flavours too
21:42:17 <Vorpal> and non-cmov
21:42:17 <elliott> 386...
21:42:18 <elliott> and 486
21:42:19 <elliott> :D
21:42:30 <Vorpal> elliott, well yeah that's debian...
21:42:32 <elliott> hmm, there might be a 686 too
21:42:34 <elliott> yeah i think there is
21:42:40 <elliott> yep
21:42:41 <elliott> 686
21:42:43 <elliott> 386, 486, 686
21:42:49 <Vorpal> elliott, and some stuff do CPU detection. Like mplayer
21:43:05 <Vorpal> elliott, point is that cpu generation only matters in a handful of places
21:43:13 <elliott> hmm, "autoconf standard" is -O2 -g right?
21:43:18 <Gregor> Yes
21:43:20 <Vorpal> elliott, I have no idea
21:43:34 <elliott> i guess 90% of debian is -O2 -g -march=i386 then :)
21:43:48 <Gregor> Quite probably.
21:43:49 <Vorpal> elliott, *probably* also -mtune=generic these days
21:43:54 <elliott> well right
21:44:03 <Vorpal> elliott, which helps to some degree
21:44:13 <Gregor> Actually I thought they made a dangerous decision to go all the way to i486 at some point :P
21:44:14 <elliott> imo -Os -march=i386 -mtune=generic would be a better choice nowadays
21:44:29 <ais523> don't -march and -mtune contradict?
21:44:29 <elliott> (nobody uses the debugging info, and the space savings from not having it + the savings from -Os = cache loves you)
21:44:32 <Vorpal> elliott, probably -march=i686 actually
21:44:41 <elliott> Vorpal: i meant, without breaking compatibility
21:44:43 <elliott> Gregor: GASP
21:44:47 <Vorpal> elliott, the debugging info is split out into separate debugging packages
21:44:48 <Gregor> ais523: Not all -march options conflict with all -mtune options.
21:44:49 <ais523> as in, -mtune implies "portable to all processors in the group"
21:44:52 <Vorpal> <ais523> don't -march and -mtune contradict? <-- no
21:44:53 <ais523> Gregor: hmm, interesting
21:44:56 <elliott> Gregor: well it's still advertised as i386 and you can still install a 386 kernel
21:45:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:45:01 <elliott> so i doubt they made that GIGANTIC LEAP
21:45:04 <Gregor> elliott: Well, cancel that then.
21:45:23 <Vorpal> elliott, debugging info for libc = invaluable
21:45:30 <elliott> ok for libraries yes :-D
21:45:40 <elliott> but apart from like... emacs
21:45:41 <ais523> I like having debug info around
21:45:45 <elliott> nobody runs system binaries under gdb
21:45:45 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, IWC has finally confused the hell out of me.
21:45:54 <elliott> ais523: hmm
21:45:55 <Vorpal> I'd hate to run emacs under gdb
21:46:00 <Phantom_Hoover> I have literally no idea what the overriding plot threads have been since... forever.
21:46:02 <elliott> Vorpal: some people do it 100% of the time
21:46:07 <elliott> ais523: is debugging info stored inline with code, or is it separated?
21:46:13 <elliott> if the latter, then I guess it won't affect the cache
21:46:13 <Vorpal> elliott, separated
21:46:20 <elliott> then -Os -g would be the best choice, I guess
21:46:24 <Vorpal> elliott, separate files even these days
21:46:27 <Vorpal> I told you above
21:46:34 <elliott> Vorpal: that might be the best idea, have -dbg packages
21:46:34 <Vorpal> ubuntu does it that way at least
21:46:36 * Phantom_Hoover → sleeop
21:46:37 <elliott> that install into /usr/dbg
21:46:39 <elliott> or whatever
21:46:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Also sleep
21:46:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit).
21:46:56 <Vorpal> elliott, paths look like /usr/lib/debug/bin/bash iirc
21:47:01 <elliott> * Phantom_Hoover (~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486) has joined #esoteric
21:47:03 <elliott> MINUTES LATER
21:47:04 <elliott> * Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit)
21:47:18 <elliott> Vorpal: right, well, that's what you get for refusing to extend the fhs
21:47:31 <Vorpal> elliott, :D
21:49:19 <elliott> so what IS it with airline food^W^Wtiling wms
21:49:59 <ais523> airline food's been pretty good IME
21:50:12 <ais523> although admittedly I've only been on four flights, and get very annoyed at having to use plane travel
21:50:30 <ais523> and in no case did I pay for the flight myself, if I'd had to do that I'd have refused outright
21:50:46 <ais523> did Gregor give up on libc.so?
21:50:59 <Gregor> I refuse to speak of it in this channel.
21:51:08 <Gregor> Well, attempt to refuse anyway.
21:51:16 <ais523> haha
21:51:20 <olsner> great way to fail not speaking of it :D
21:51:59 <elliott> hey Gregor
21:52:01 <elliott> libc.so
21:52:01 <Vorpal> Gregor, did you win libm.so?
21:52:02 <elliott> libc.so
21:52:03 <elliott> libc.so
21:52:09 <elliott> ais523: i didn't say anything about airline food!
21:52:12 <elliott> i asked about tiling wms
21:52:21 <Gregor> I refuse to speak of the DETAILS OF THE AUCTION, not the domain itself X_X
21:52:27 <Gregor> Vorpal: Didn't even try.
21:52:32 <Vorpal> Gregor, oh
21:52:33 <elliott> Gregor: Is it $800
21:52:35 <elliott> Gregor: Is it $900
21:52:37 <elliott> Gregor: Is it $1000
21:52:41 <elliott> (Binary search setup phase)
21:52:58 <elliott> (RIP Yhc!)
21:53:03 <Gregor> It is a numeric, integer value greater than 0.
21:53:14 <elliott> $7000 then.
21:53:19 <Gregor> "Numeric" is redundant here, and "integer greater than 0" could be replaced by "whole number" :P
21:56:41 <Vorpal> elliott, musl looks great
21:57:34 <elliott> Vorpal: it is
21:57:46 <elliott> Vorpal: only C.UTF-8 locale support now, but that's being worked on
21:58:08 <Vorpal> missing C99 math functions and POSIX priority scheduling options. Damn
21:58:10 <Vorpal> XD
21:58:33 <olsner> bah, why would anyone need anything else than C.UTF-8 locale
21:58:47 <elliott> Vorpal: C99 math is being worked on :P
21:59:03 <elliott> Vorpal: Surprisingly enough some things actually use it X-D
21:59:09 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway the locale stuff is a show stopper
21:59:10 <elliott> e.g. an mpfr testcase I think refused to compile becuase of the lack of...
21:59:12 <elliott> roundbyint or something.
21:59:17 <Vorpal> elliott, I don't want silly C locale date
21:59:37 <elliott> Vorpal: No it's not a show-stopper.
21:59:41 <elliott> It's an incredibly minor thing that is being added.
21:59:41 <Vorpal> elliott, for me it is
21:59:57 <elliott> Yes, well, 3 April 2011 3 April 2011 3 April 2011.
22:00:19 <Vorpal> $ date
22:00:19 <Vorpal> sön apr 3 23:59:41 CEST 2011
22:00:33 <elliott> Yes. Because seeing "3 April 2011" instead of "sön apr 3" affects your entire computing experience.
22:00:42 <Vorpal> that is very weird order too I think
22:00:44 <Vorpal> in date outout
22:00:46 <Vorpal> output*
22:01:00 <elliott> Yes it is, which is why that locale sucks :
22:01:00 <elliott> :P
22:01:25 <Vorpal> tLC_ADDRESS="sv_SE.UTF-8"
22:01:26 <Vorpal> LC_TELEPHONE="sv_SE.UTF-8"
22:01:26 <Vorpal> LC_MEASUREMENT="sv_SE.UTF-8"
22:01:31 <Vorpal> I wonder where those are actually used
22:01:41 <Vorpal> LC_PAPER="sv_SE.UTF-8"
22:01:43 <Vorpal> that too
22:01:49 <Vorpal> presumably that selects A4?
22:02:01 <Gregor> In Sweden they use Q12 instead of A4.
22:02:08 <Vorpal> Gregor, Q12?
22:02:10 <Gregor> It's measured in fractions of furlongs.
22:02:18 <Vorpal> Gregor, per fortnight!
22:02:22 <elliott> also anyone who sets LC_foo to get /error messages/ and the like in non-English is clearly in need of institutionalisation more than locale support
22:02:25 <Vorpal> yes the speed of the papoer
22:02:26 <Vorpal> paper*
22:02:30 <Vorpal> is what matters
22:02:34 <Gregor> The width is conventionally given in terms of oxtails, but standardized as fractions of furlongs.
22:02:57 <Vorpal> elliott, I do this:
22:03:03 <Vorpal> LANG=sv_SE.UTF-8
22:03:06 <Vorpal> LC_COLLATE=C
22:03:08 <Vorpal> LC_MESSAGES=C
22:03:11 <Vorpal> :P
22:03:19 <elliott> Vorpal: =C?
22:03:23 <Vorpal> elliott, yes?
22:03:27 <elliott> =en_GB.UTF8 or something would provide more reasonable output
22:03:36 <elliott> especially for collation
22:03:42 <Gregor> elliott: =C guarantees that the bug reports are in the same language that the author wrote it in.
22:03:43 <Vorpal> elliott, I wish C.UTF8 worked with glibc
22:03:58 <Vorpal> elliott, I do not want messed up sorting
22:04:00 <elliott> Gregor: "I'm sorry, you said -ise instead of -ize, WONTFIX"
22:04:03 <Vorpal> elliott, I want CASE SENSITIVE sort
22:04:08 <elliott> Vorpal: Define messed up...
22:04:11 <elliott> ASCIIbetal isn't logical :P
22:04:19 <Vorpal> elliott, I prefer that one!
22:04:28 <Gregor> elliott: More like "I am not having good with English, can please error messages with original Portuguese thanks."
22:04:59 <Vorpal> Gregor, I would go insane at a program doing that!
22:04:59 <elliott> Gregor: That's a great argument NOT to use =C, I don't fucking know Portuguese :P
22:05:17 <Gregor> elliott: Also, I wouldn't WONTFIX a bug for -ise instead of -ize, but I would for zed instead of zee :P
22:05:35 <elliott> Really though, a FOSS project with a lead developer not competent in English is also known as a trainwreck :P
22:05:46 <Gregor> True
22:05:54 <elliott> Yeah yeah cultural imperialism, I don't give a shit, the Bible was right, language divisions are a curse.
22:06:00 <elliott> That was the Bible right.
22:06:03 <ais523> Gregor: pls to change "prized" to "prizee"?
22:06:09 <elliott> prizee :D
22:06:12 <elliott> best word
22:06:29 <ais523> as opposed to "prised", ofc
22:06:51 <elliott> you can prizee my spellings from my cold dead hands
22:07:34 <Gregor> ais523: DONE
22:11:29 <Vorpal> elliott, you realise valgrind won't work on statically linked code?
22:11:41 <elliott> onoezes!!!111
22:11:43 <Vorpal> or at least I don't think it will
22:11:50 <elliott> Anyway I plan to dynlink with musl for kitten
22:11:52 <Vorpal> nope, it won't
22:11:57 <Vorpal> elliott, you do?
22:12:02 <elliott> he's working on a dynamic loader that's embedded in the libc itself
22:12:04 <elliott> not separate
22:12:07 <elliott> so there's 0 overhead
22:12:15 <elliott> so i'll dynlink libc only
22:12:18 <Vorpal> ah
22:12:38 <Vorpal> elliott, why not work on @ instead?
22:12:47 <elliott> who said i was working on kitten
22:13:02 <Vorpal> well not right now...
22:13:21 <elliott> can hardly work on @ if i don't have a nice tiling wm can i
22:13:29 <Vorpal> elliott, sure you can
22:13:34 <elliott> no i can't
22:13:39 <Vorpal> elliott, okay so write one then
22:13:51 <elliott> i thought you said i shouldn't work on kitten
22:14:02 <Vorpal> elliott, oh but run it on ubuntu :P
22:14:10 <elliott> anyway i'm going to try out i3 soon. maybe
22:16:00 <Vorpal> night →
22:23:18 <zzo38> How many bits would you need if you were doing fourier transforms with fixed point?
22:25:25 <ais523> depends on how accurate you'd want the answer to be
22:26:50 <zzo38> It should be accurate enough that if you do forward and then reverse on a picture, you should get the same picture, or one very close to the same.
22:27:40 <ais523> zzo38: same as the number of bits as the picture, then
22:28:03 <ais523> e.g. if the picture uses 8-bit color, you need 8-bit transforms
22:29:01 <zzo38> Would that be enough? If you are doing real/imaginary instead of amplitude/phase, I mean.
22:29:39 <ais523> you use a different algorithm, I think
22:29:53 <ais523> look up about algorithsm for doing discrete cosine transforms
22:29:58 <ais523> which is the fixed-point version of the fft
22:30:54 <zzo38> I know I have found the code for two-dimensional FFT, it uses floating point anthough square root is the only special function used, the others are only multiplication and division.
22:31:13 <fizzie> I vaguely recall that fixed-point FFT needs some care in scaling the numbers during the processing, to avoid large inaccuracies.
22:33:37 <zzo38> METAFONT has careful division to ensure not overflow in a 32-bit fixed point, TeXnicard uses the same algorithm but for 64-bit numbers instead.
22:34:03 <zzo38> In the FFT I found, the square root is only used for the sa = sqrt((1.0 - ca) / 2.0);
22:34:04 <olsner> I guess if anyone's done jpeg en/decoding on architectures without floating point, they'll have solved this problem
22:34:08 <zzo38> and ca = sqrt((1.0 + ca) / 2.0);
22:34:36 <olsner> or DCT anyway, not necessarily FFT
22:35:52 <zzo38> And the value of sa and ca are initialized ca=-1.0 and sa=0.0 with nothing else ever changing ca
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22:40:41 <zzo38> I have made a graph of it
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22:58:59 <zzo38> If I want to add image manipulation into TeXnicard, how many (monochrome) bitmap registers and how many graymap registers should I have?
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23:35:46 <quintopia> whoa
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23:35:57 <quintopia> this is the earliest i've ever seen elliott leave
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23:37:58 <Gregor> quintopia: But he ping-timeout'd, not quit.
23:38:51 <quintopia> i don't think it's a problem with his connection
23:39:15 <quintopia> i bet he just unplugged his computer because he was fed up with us
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