00:00:45 Smalltalk at: #One put: 1. 00:09:00 -!- augur has joined. 00:10:39 Smalltalk globals keysAndValuesDo: [:key :value | 00:10:39 (value class class = Metaclass) ifFalse: [ 00:10:39 Transcript cr. 00:10:39 Transcript show: key]] 00:10:54 May have some false positives 00:14:29 In my image, there are 16. 00:15:12 I seem to have many more than 16 00:15:26 Some of them are traits. 00:15:29 Which are like classes. 00:15:35 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:15:38 -!- sftp_ has joined. 00:15:54 Ooh 00:16:10 Optimist, Sensor, SystemOrganization, World, Display, ActiveEvent, TextConstants, Smalltalk, Processor, ScheduledControllers, Transcript, SourceFiles, ActiveHand, ActiveWorld, Undeclared, ImageImports. 00:16:22 ActiveWorld! 00:16:28 :P 00:16:43 I don't have Optimist 00:16:52 Optimist is strange. It's a True. 00:17:13 In fact, it's true. 00:17:40 -!- fungot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:18:46 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:21:28 -!- fizzie has joined. 00:35:15 ActiveWorld! <-- different one I suspect 00:35:54 Optimist is strange. It's a True. <-- Pessimist should be False then? 00:37:50 It should be, but it isn't. 00:57:14 So, what uses Optimist? 00:57:19 Is it possible to determine? 01:09:13 Hm, let me see. 01:10:14 I don't know of any way to determine that. You could look through all of the code in the system and see if it uses Optimist. 01:10:43 Or you could replace Optimist with an object that pretends to be true but logs all its accesses. 01:11:08 tvvl: bot 01:11:08 nil 01:11:28 tvvl: Smalltalk globals remove: #Smalltalk 01:11:37 >.> 01:11:47 No worries, this bot is supposed to be abused. 01:11:50 I'm sure I had something more creative in mind 01:11:53 It's not *made* to be abused, but it's supposed to be. :P 01:11:56 tvvl: bot 01:12:13 It looks like that expression is simply an error. 01:12:22 The image is still working perfectly. 01:12:45 I suggest "Smalltalk globals at: #Smalltalk put: nil". 01:12:47 -!- tswettbot-boxed- has joined. 01:13:01 I'll see what that does. 01:13:03 tvvl: Smalltalk globals at: #Smalltalk put: nil 01:13:04 nil 01:13:12 tvvl: Smalltalk 01:13:12 -!- tswettbot-boxed has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:13:28 There. *Now* the image has crashed. 01:14:06 -!- tswettbot-boxed- has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:00 -!- tswettbot-boxed has joined. 01:15:01 Feel free to repair the bot through IRC. :P 01:15:17 You just need to fix a certain method. 01:16:10 tvvl: (ZbasuDefaultHandler methodDictionary at: #bot:heard:) methodSourceString 01:16:22 Oh, that's not how that works. 01:16:27 I dismiss you, tswettbot. 01:16:30 * tswett shrugs. 01:16:35 -!- tswettbot-boxed has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:16:51 -!- tswettbot-boxed- has joined. 01:17:08 tvvl: (ZbasuDefaultHandler methodDictionary at: #bot:heard:) getSource 01:17:09 bot: t1 heard: t2 01:17:27 Of course it sends every line of that as a separate IRC command. 01:17:51 Zbasu? 01:17:57 * Sgeo is confused 01:18:00 Yep, that's the name of the project. 01:19:58 tvvl: (ZbasuDefaultHandler methodDictionary at: #bot:heard:) getSource withBlanksCondensed 01:19:58 bot: t1 heard: t2 | t3 t4 | 01:20:12 Not much help. 01:22:58 tvvl: (ZbasuDefaultHandler methodDictionary at: #bot:heard:) getSource onlyLetters 01:22:58 bottheardtttTranscriptshowRCVDtcrtbeginsWithPINGifTruetsendMessagePONGtincludesSubStringIdismissyoutswettbotifTruetquitttvvlttfindStringttifFalsetsendMessagePRIVMSGesotericCompilerevaluatetallButFirsttsizetnotifyingnilloggedfalseasString 01:23:02 :P 01:24:59 tvvl: (ZbasuDefaultHandler methodDictionary at: #bot:heard:) getSource select: [:x | x ~= Character cr and: [x ~= Character lf]] 01:25:00 bot: t1 heard: t2 | t3 t4 |Transcript show: 'RCVD: ' , t2; cr.(t2 beginsWith: 'PING')ifTrue: [t1 sendMessage: 'PONG'].(t2 includesSubString: 'I dismiss you, tswettbot')ifTrue: [t1 quit].t3 := 'tvvl: '.t4 := t2 findString: t3.t4 = 0ifFalse: [t1 sendMessage: 'PRIVMSG #esoteric :' , (Compilerevaluate: (t2 allButFirst: t3 size + t4 - 1)notifying: nillogged: false) asString] 01:27:35 tvvl: (ZbasuDefaultHandler methodDictionary at: #bot:heard:) getSource select: [:x | ({Character cr. Character lf. Character tab} includes: x) not] 01:27:35 bot: t1 heard: t2 | t3 t4 |Transcript show: 'RCVD: ' , t2; cr.(t2 beginsWith: 'PING')ifTrue: [t1 sendMessage: 'PONG'].(t2 includesSubString: 'I dismiss you, tswettbot')ifTrue: [t1 quit].t3 := 'tvvl: '.t4 := t2 findString: t3.t4 = 0ifFalse: [t1 sendMessage: 'PRIVMSG #esoteric :' , (Compilerevaluate: (t2 allButFirst: t3 size + t4 - 1)notifying: nillogged: false) asString] 01:27:44 There, there's your source code. :P 01:28:26 Oh, interesting. All the argument names are absent. 01:29:13 All the argument names in the entire image. And there are no comments. 01:29:24 I'm guessing that's supposed to happen when the sources file can't be found. 01:37:52 -!- lament has joined. 01:43:29 eir 01:52:13 coppro: I know, i know. 01:52:17 s/i/I/ 02:03:06 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- Ilari has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- tswettbot-boxed- has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- R-Type has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- Zwaarddijk has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- dbc has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- comex has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- marchdown has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:06 -!- coppro has quit 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lolwut 02:49:44 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:51:14 augur: i've just never noticed you leave 02:51:24 you're not paying attention then! 02:51:26 yay complexity theory has been discussed here 02:51:51 oh i thought you had done some sorta magix 02:52:37 if there are sparse NP-complete sets with respect to many-to-one reductions, then P=NP, same for sparse coNP-complete sets 02:53:22 sparse = for some polynomial p there are at most p(n) words of length n in the language 02:54:56 oklopol: even worse, if there's unary languages that are NP-complete, P=NP 02:55:16 Zwaarddijk: i'm actually just now writing the proof of that 02:55:36 cool 02:55:42 care to share it once it's done? 02:56:13 easy one: if there's a tally set (subset of 1^*) that's NP-complete, then P=NP: take an SAT instance, and one var at a time branch to both the true and the false case, now just note the set of formulas you get never gets exponential because you can prune out two formulas if they have the same image in the tally set 02:56:25 yes i was writing it for your pleasure 02:56:36 but that was kinda simplified 02:56:43 i'll be happy to get into the details ofc 02:57:56 you need an SAT encoding where setting a value to true or false doesn't increase its length 02:58:20 ahm 02:58:22 then let p be a polynomial such that the reduction from SAT to the tally set takes time at most p 02:59:05 and note that if the SAT instance has size n, then the images of all formulas you get when branching are at most size p(n) 02:59:53 and in fact there are at most p(n) formulas you need to keep track of, because for all formulas, you can remove them if they don't have an image in 1^*, and if they do have an image in 1^*, it's at most length p(n), and for each length, you store just one formula 03:00:29 that should be the key points 03:00:49 is it followable? 03:01:00 kind of a random list of facts 03:01:33 hm, yeah I get the gist of it 03:01:45 I was thinking, btw, how would a language like 03:02:19 1^(R(x,y), x and y being any integer, and R() being the Ramsey numbers 03:02:22 be classed? 03:02:45 R(x,y) is very difficult to compute, but is that even relevant to the language itself? 03:03:33 i'm sure no one knows a fast algorithm for that because R(5,5) is open 03:03:40 exactly 03:03:42 it's 43-49 iirc 03:03:47 does this mean that language is difficult 03:03:50 oklopol: ever played with agda? 03:03:53 too? 03:04:53 Zwaarddijk: even though tally sets cannot be NP-complete, they can be exponential time or even uncomputable 03:05:05 oh wait 03:05:16 we don't know ... 03:05:16 there was something about NP-hardness 03:05:29 oh well we certainly know they can be uncomputable 03:05:36 that's trivial 03:05:52 well, the NP-completeness is unknown, that was my point 03:06:07 erm okay it seems that 03:06:18 does P=NP => NP-complete tally sets, or is it just NP-complete tally sets => P=NP? 03:06:35 if P=NP, then {1} is MP-complete 03:07:25 but my ct books says tally sets cannot be even bounded truth table hard for NP 03:07:43 i guess that's essentially the same thing 03:08:05 erm 03:08:08 when I read the thing about tally sets first 03:08:15 I figured that's pretty much proof that P!=NP 03:08:46 or maybe at least the closest we have? 03:09:04 erm the reason i gave the proof is that it's a simple little thingie 03:09:25 sparse NP-complete => P=NP is much more interesting 03:09:57 yeah, I figured that much 03:10:29 and i don't understand it. i have understood the details separately, once upon a time, but i'm not sure i ever really got what the idea was 03:11:03 sparse coNP-complete => P=NP is essentially the same as that tally set proof, but i don't recall how it goes, similar pruning thing 03:11:06 augur: no 03:11:17 oklopol: you should 03:11:18 its fun 03:11:29 i'm sure it is 03:12:08 but umm, i should go to work 03:12:38 I have recently realized I should learn javascript :| 03:16:32 Muahahahaha 03:18:28 :| 03:18:36 yes, it is a terrible thing to realize 03:23:46 http://sss.cs.purdue.edu/projects/dynjs/javascript_the_evil_parts.png <-- recommended book to learn from 03:26:00 got it already! 03:26:26 (not really) 03:29:46 oklopol: you do math, right? 03:29:49 Gregor! 03:30:41 augur: I don't do math :P 03:30:46 not you 03:30:51 im just saying hi to you 03:31:01 No, you're saying "Gregor!" to me. 03:31:07 Durpadoopadlip 03:31:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:31:21 augur: yes 03:31:52 Gregor: yes, thats a way of saying hi 03:31:56 oklopol: well, you can do math in agda! 03:32:04 i can but umm. 03:32:04 for instance, im doing abstract algebra right now! 03:32:11 You can do math in JavaScript too X-P 03:32:16 Gregor: i mean proofs 03:32:17 what's abstract algebra, is it universal algebra? 03:32:27 augur: And I mean to trollolol :P 03:32:36 oklopol: eh. in this case its just some graph-theoretic stuff i guess? 03:32:41 i dont know 03:33:08 okay 03:33:19 must be pretty damn abstract if you don't know what it is 03:34:16 according to wp, abstract algebra is the same as universal algebra 03:34:24 augur: I didn't get libc.so *sobblecopter* 03:34:47 Gregor: sux4u 03:34:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:35:28 augur: Why even say "hi" if I can't then relate personal tragedy :P 03:35:30 i imagine doing math in agda would be similar to programming in brainfuck, sure it can be fun but you'll be proving 1+1=2. 03:36:27 Gregor: courtesy 03:36:34 oklopol: hardly! 03:37:29 currently im proving that any graph order built from Unit and disjunctive concatenation will be a linear order 03:37:42 disjunctive concatenation? 03:38:56 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:38:57 concatenation with disjoint union of the underlying sets 03:39:20 and how do you "concatenate" graphs 03:39:27 good question! 03:39:37 in this case, its roughly like so 03:41:38 (X, arrX) ++ (Y, arrY) = (X + Y, \(z,z') -> if z z' <- X then arrX z z' else if z <- X & z' <- Y then true else if z <- Y & z' <- X then false else if z z' <- Y then arrY z z') 03:41:58 plus the relevant isomorphism to make the new relation be of type (X + Y) x (X + Y) -> Bool 03:42:12 so connect vertices of X to those of Y 03:42:13 roughly speaking 03:42:27 right, the X's point to the Y's 03:42:29 exclusively 03:42:39 well obviously that's a total order 03:42:44 nope 03:42:48 the X's dont point to themselves 03:42:52 total orders are reflexive 03:42:58 linear orders are irreflexive 03:43:04 i mean, it COULD be total 03:43:05 or linear 03:43:25 depending on whether you state from (1, const True) or (1, const False) 03:43:34 the former is a total order, the latter is a linear order 03:43:40 well okay linear, point is that's obvious, easier than 1+1=2 03:43:58 perhaps! depends on how you define 1, 2, and + :) 03:44:00 and =! 03:44:11 but its neat cause ive got a _proof_ 03:44:12 almost 03:44:25 im still constructing the proof that (1, const False) is a linear order 03:44:30 it's NEAT, but it's not math 03:44:43 well it's math but it's kidss math 03:44:46 *kids' 03:45:22 :( 03:45:26 true 03:45:35 but you can do growed up math too! 03:45:39 im just not doing that kind of math 03:45:45 because its not relevant to my work 03:45:48 doing math is all about the basic idea, formal proof is a lot of fun, but it's not really why i'm into math 03:46:06 well whatever :| 03:46:21 i'm on a course about formal proving 03:46:24 but we use HOL 03:46:57 hopefully i'll be able to prove that same theorem in a month or so 03:47:01 i doubt i could do it now 03:48:39 okay gotta go -> 03:50:19 see ya oklopol 03:50:20 * augur bites oklopol 04:03:10 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:10:41 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:11:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:55 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:57 -!- augur has joined. 04:43:48 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:05:12 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to wharrrgarbl. 05:12:57 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:17:33 -!- sftp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:27:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:29:24 -!- augur has joined. 05:38:37 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 05:38:37 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:38:42 -!- fizzie has joined. 05:43:05 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:03:33 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:16:26 -!- aloril has joined. 06:49:04 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:50:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:50:39 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 06:50:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:25:23 -!- lament has joined. 07:29:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:52:33 -!- cheater99 has joined. 07:53:29 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:34:43 Ah, usenet: 08:34:44 Newsgroups: sci.math,comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.lang.c,alt.religion.christianity 08:34:44 Subject: Alpha and Omega R-Language Computer Code|Robot Jesus|Sermon on the Mount| 08:35:09 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:57:33 quite esoteric - http://arxiv.org/abs/1104.0924v1 09:08:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:30:16 Newsgroups: sci.math,comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.lang.c,alt.religion.christianity <-- that's a joke, right? 09:30:48 I mean, that list... 09:31:04 fizzie, or was that not a To list for one message? 09:31:30 There's no "To:" header in postings; but it was a Newsgroups: header for one (crossposted) message, yes. 09:31:59 I mean, it does have both "computer code" and "robot jesus" in the subject, why not. 09:32:57 The contents didn't really make sense, though: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/msg/5e1c4335efdc2ecf 09:33:01 (How surprising.) 09:42:39 fizzie, looks like program code 09:42:52 fizzie, probably in R as it said in the subject 09:43:01 The syntax looks like R, yes. 09:43:09 Well, except those quotation bits. 09:43:11 I don't know R however. 09:43:31 fizzie, could be some sort of comment? I don't know 09:43:41 I'm not an R expert either, but I doubt "be comforted by the words which I give unto" is valid syntax. 09:44:02 it could be doing the intercal way. Invalid syntax = comment 09:44:12 iirc 09:44:15 R comments are from # to end-of-line. 09:44:21 ah 09:46:07 The same author posted a P=NP "proof" the other day, too. 09:46:47 ah.. 10:03:58 -!- nooga_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:20:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:20:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:21:07 -!- augur has joined. 10:25:01 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:25:20 -!- augur has joined. 10:33:04 -!- lmk0tter has joined. 10:33:12 -!- Imk0tter has joined. 10:34:31 -!- lmk0tter has quit (Client Quit). 10:37:40 -!- Imk0tter has quit. 10:37:59 -!- Imk0tter has joined. 10:55:10 -!- Lymia_ has joined. 10:55:15 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:46:14 -!- k0tk0t has joined. 11:46:21 -!- PatashuNuMou has joined. 11:47:10 ,[->+>+<<]>>[<<+>>-]>+>>++++++[<<[>++<-]>[<+++++>-]>-]<<[->+>+<<]>>[<<+>>-]>>+<<<<[>>>>>>>>>>>[-]+[<<<<<<<<<<<<<[->>>>>>>>+<<<<<<<<]>>>[->>>>>>+<<<<<<]<[->+>+<<]>>[<<+>>-]>>>>[>[-<->>>+<]<<]<[>]>[-<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>]>[-]>>>+<[-<<<<<<<<->>>>>>>>]<<<<<<<<[[-]>>>>>>>>>->-<<<<<<<<<<]<[->+>+<<]>>[<<+>>-]>>>>>>>>>]<[->>+>+<<<]++++++[->>++++++++<<]>>.[-]>[-<<<<<<<<<<<<[-]<[->+>+<<]>>[<<+>>-]<[->>>>>>>>>>>>>+<<<<<<<<<<<<<]>>>>>>>>>>>>]>[ 11:50:28 oh hey, bf joust 11:51:02 -!- wth has joined. 11:51:04 -!- wth has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:53:12 -!- k0tk0t has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:53:34 -!- k0tk0t has joined. 11:55:31 -!- fungot has joined. 11:58:21 anyone familiar with brainfuck? 11:59:19 -!- k0tk0t has quit (Quit: k0tk0t). 11:59:53 -!- wth has joined. 12:02:16 -!- wth has left. 12:02:49 anyone familiar with brainfuck? <-- yes, to some degree 12:04:09 hm, I think bf is one of the few languages where output of a good optimising compiler might be easier to follow than the original source code for most programs. 12:04:46 (of course it is probably possible to obfuscate code in many languages to get that effect there too) 12:06:46 well, probably the same goes for some other easily compileable tarpits 12:08:39 -!- wth has joined. 12:11:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:14:00 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:24:50 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:32:10 Hah. I seemingly got signed up to one mailing list in "opt-out" fashion (quite understandable given the situation). 12:32:22 -!- sftp has joined. 12:32:38 Ilari, what mailing list heh? 12:33:27 Well, basically one mailing list was shut down and new one created to continue (apparently mailman can't rename mailing lists). 12:33:42 ah 12:33:46 well that makes sense then 12:33:50 And the admins copied the subscriber lists. 12:33:54 (well, mailmail doesn't) 12:34:33 All data wasn't copied. The password changed for instance. 12:35:09 ouch 12:36:35 -!- wth has left ("Leaving."). 12:59:16 -!- Wamanuz4 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:00:00 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:01:23 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined. 13:06:45 -!- wharrrgarbl has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:07:58 -!- jcp has joined. 13:09:49 -!- PatashuNuMou has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 .). 13:14:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:27:25 -!- asiekierka has joined. 13:29:12 -!- wharrrgarbl has joined. 13:44:42 -!- augur has joined. 14:14:27 -!- cheater00 has joined. 14:15:21 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:28:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:35:23 -!- cpressey has joined. 14:35:51 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:36:25 R-Type! You survived the night! 14:36:25 * R-Type scowls at cpressey 14:36:45 I credit your good attitude. 14:39:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:43:18 -!- wareya_ has changed nick to wareya. 14:54:48 cpressey, hm, why did you make the bot act like that? Is it a reference I'm missing or something? 15:01:55 Vorpal: Well: I wanted to write a bot in R, just because R is a horrible language to do such a thing in. I named it 'R-Type' because 'rbot' was taken, 'R-bot' is boring, and R-Type was a significant game in the history of video games (not a huge favorite of mine, but I can appreciate it.) Since the point was just to write a bot in R, I didn't care what it actually did. So I modelled its personality after a cat I met o 15:01:55 * R-Type groans 15:02:33 cpressey, I think that got cut off 15:02:39 "So I modelled its personality after a cat I met o" 15:02:49 So I modelled its personality after a cat I met once. 15:02:53 ah 15:03:03 I guess a rather annoying cat... 15:04:08 It was a stray that was rescued. It was also a longhair. 15:04:46 Longhair + living on the streets = permanent knots in fur = quite painful, I imagine = not the happiest individual. 15:04:47 -!- pumpkin has joined. 15:06:06 Oh, I should post its source code somewhere so you can bask in the glory 15:06:39 -!- wharrrgarbl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:07:36 ah 15:08:00 cpressey, I don't know R though 15:08:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:09:47 Vorpal: you don't have to know it to appreciate how BEAUTIFUL it is. 15:10:02 See the beauty! http://pastie.org/1768075 15:10:43 The command line to run it, alone, is worth it. 15:10:46 hm 15:11:00 "irc.irc.irc" is the greatest hostname ever. 15:11:28 cpressey, if you want to avoid the erlang shell you can get pretty silly command lines there too 15:12:23 "Every time I hear that XKCD isn't funny anymore I get slightly pissed off. It's always been hit and miss but the hits so outweigh the misses that it's my favourite on line comic (with the possible exception of Doonesbury)." ← a decent precis of why I left RationalWiki. 15:13:05 "I am continually impressed/annoyed that we spent zillions of edits and hundreds of words making a point in favour of rationalism, then XKCD kicks our arses saying the same thing in four panels with a couple of matchstick men." 15:13:11 That's better, actually. 15:14:21 Phantom_Hoover, hm I'd say xkcd is sometimes good, though rather rarely nowdays. And even back in the "good old days" it wasn't always good. 15:14:40 Very rarely nowadays. 15:14:52 And the misses are cringeworthy. 15:14:55 What's xkcd? 15:15:06 Oh, I apologize for that. 15:15:15 cpressey, a Thing Man Was Not Meant To Know. 15:15:47 the master xkcd will rise from the sunken city of frwgll 15:15:51 I know as much about xkcd as I want to -- more, actually. I should not tempt fate. Or #esoteric. 15:15:55 (That's Welsh.) 15:16:50 cpressey, I'm not sure if you meant you didn't know what xkcd was above or not. It is however a webcomic. 15:17:11 http://www.xkcd.com/879/ <<< i like this one 15:17:49 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to wharrrgarbl. 15:18:05 http://www.xkcd.com/881/ <<< and could someone explain this to me 15:18:12 Vorpal: Depending on who you ask, it is THE webcomic. 15:18:18 is the joke that they have a weird way of hugging 15:18:49 cpressey, it was THE webcomic before ~400 or so. 15:20:20 but i suppose it's still the simpsons of webcomics 15:21:04 Once again oklothink triumphs. 15:21:28 err... sure? now can you explain 881 to me 15:21:35 is it about his illness? 15:22:32 It's about LOOK AT ME I CAN WRITE CRINGEWORTHILY AWFUL "EMOTIONAL" COMICS WITH SCIENCE SHOEHORNED IN I AM NERD HUMOUR 15:22:55 I am fascinatingly tempted to actually look at it. 15:23:12 Also *anyone* who thinks probability is worth doing for practical applications should be shot. 15:23:28 are you sure there isn't some sort of punchline? 15:23:43 what are the numbers in the table 15:23:51 The impression I get is that the actual *mathematics* requires some kind of degree. 15:23:56 *to understand 15:24:10 like, that many survive 5/10 years of X 15:25:03 and i wonder if the way they hug is relevant 15:25:26 You're overanalysing it. 15:25:57 i think i just don't get it 15:26:05 Perhaps if I prepare myself mentally and emotionally beforehand sufficiently, I can look at it. 15:26:19 cpressey: i would appreciate that 15:26:36 I mean, I have seen xkcd's involuntarily on peoples' shirts and hanging in their cubes, and it didn't damage me *too* much. 15:26:40 fun little problem: find a 5-regular planar graph, where 5-regular = every vertex has degree 5 15:26:43 oklopol, I think you're assuming there's an actual joke somewhere under the mawkish sentimentalism, and are combing through it. 15:26:50 *for anything funny. 15:26:54 OK, here goes. 15:26:56 well yes 15:27:42 um 15:27:53 cpressey, you shouldn't have done it. 15:28:00 Phantom_Hoover: You are correct in that. 15:28:23 Well, unless you have the love for your fellow humans of Charlie Brooker. 15:28:56 I don't know who that is and the extra information is not helping me recover. 15:29:16 Charlie Brooker is an infamously misanthropic reviewer of things. 15:29:21 i suppose this is the right time to tell cpressey that santa isn't real 15:29:28 OK, well: oklopol, if you want my opinion: it wasn't intended to be funny. 15:29:47 It was intended to be Hallmark-y. 15:30:02 For lack of a better adjective. 15:30:15 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:30:54 "mawkish sentamentalism", I suppose that's a good way to put it too 15:31:06 but 15:33:05 oklopol: this was all a PLOT by you, to get me to read an xkcd, WASN'T IT 15:33:29 cleverly FEIGNING non-understanding of the fail 15:33:51 hm, or can you actually call that fail? because i'm sure it was totally what was intended 15:34:13 i wouldn't know, I DON'T GET IT 15:34:19 oklopol: THERE IS NOTHING TO GET 15:34:24 MUST BE 15:34:58 oklopol: Are you familiar with a pre-web comic strip called Fred Bassett? 15:35:31 Sometimes, there is nothing to get. 15:35:33 no, except if it's pre-web i might know it in finnish 15:36:19 oklopol: "Koiraskoira" 15:36:24 (the internet is amazing sometimes) 15:36:42 or "Retu, Pitko" 15:36:53 (thanks wp) 15:37:16 oh yeah i've seen those comics 15:37:21 in finnish prolly 15:37:40 "Some strips are merely a surreal or whimsical description of a moment of life as seen from a dog's point of view. As very British cartoon strips, they break the normal strip rules by sometimes not having a traditional ending, a punchline or even a distinct purpose, distinguishing them from the more direct, American-style Garfield or Peanuts strips." 15:38:15 imo, this is the xkcd version 15:39:47 maybe i'll try to solve it tomorrow 15:39:51 too tired now 15:40:02 koiraskoira sounds really silly 15:40:13 retu i may have heard 15:40:22 I mean, I always thought it must be hard being a comic strip writer, you have to come up with a new funny thing for every day. But! Not if you aren't actually funny every day. 15:40:24 koiraskoira = male dog 15:41:05 well you can always just make a play on words 15:41:27 never funny, but good enough for a newspaper comic strip. 15:42:14 I have this particular strip hanging in my cube: http://www.glyphjockey.com/uploaded_images/Uncanny_Old_Gags_1-772109.jpg 15:42:34 It's revenge against those who see fit to hang xkcds where others can see them. 15:43:15 i.... don't get that one either 15:43:23 have i become even stupider 15:43:44 i like it tho 15:44:35 oklopol does not know the hubris of man. 15:45:51 is the points that bad things can happen even though no actual failing is involved, proper walking can cause footprints in the wrong place, and a nice throw can destroy a painting 15:45:57 *point 15:46:17 i mean 15:46:19 something related to that 15:46:41 oh the first guy is in the picture 15:46:49 I believe the point was "I can take panels from seperate Nancy strips and put them together into something that can be read, but does not make sense as we understand it" 15:46:54 oklopol, have you considered that sometimes there is, in fact, no elaborately hidden punchline, and that the reason you cannot find one is not that you lack a sense of humour? 15:47:07 This would perhaps be justified were you Vorpal, but you are not. 15:47:25 i think i'm seeing it 15:47:34 nice puzzle 15:47:36 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:47:40 hmmhmm 15:47:42 The objective of dada is to freeze the brain until the dressmakers' assistants arrive. 15:48:49 cpressey, you should say to everyone "really, you don't get it? It's obvious!" 15:49:03 yeah no my approach didn't work 15:49:10 Phantom_Hoover, not every comic strip has a punchline. 15:49:23 depends a bit on which webcomic though 15:49:26 Phantom_Hoover: In my younger days... 15:50:01 has the author said there's no solution? 15:50:10 oklopol 15:50:17 cpressey 15:50:41 oklopol's use of the words "solve" and "solution" in regard to comic strips disturbs me somewhat. 15:50:51 And Vorpal performs quite possibly the most amazing feat of oblivious demonstration the world has ever seen! 15:51:49 cpressey: if you directly see why a comic is funny, you didn't learn anything. 15:51:56 Phantom_Hoover, of course, there are cases where either the author of the webcomic or the reader of it have different types of humour. That would give a similar end result. 15:52:27 I don't think Vorpal even reads what other people say beyond the most cursory examination. 15:52:46 Phantom_Hoover, I read the previous three lines + the highlight one 15:52:49 oklopol: that is true, although I am not always seeking to learn new things when I read a comic strip. 15:52:53 It's just tangential to the brilliance of his ego. 15:52:57 (the previous ones to the highlight that is) 15:53:09 This is particularly apparent whenever any form of subtlety is applied. 15:53:23 Phantom_Hoover, but come on... comics like freefall doesn't use a punch line in *every* strip. 15:53:26 Vorpal, are you aware that we don't know what lines your IRC client highlights? 15:53:30 cpressey: well to be honest the only reason i read comics is to take a break from thinking. 15:53:40 cpressey, " This would perhaps be justified were you Vorpal, but you are not." had my nick in it 15:53:48 pretty obvious it would highlight me 15:53:55 Sarcasm being one thing he is utterly unable to detect or penetrate. 15:55:24 Vorpal: how's uni 15:55:41 Anyway, xkcd pegged why R is the language of the future. It tells you that you're going to DIE 15:55:46 which year is this again? i have some trouble with time 15:56:09 cpressey: in 881? 15:56:24 oklopol: the sappy one with the statistics and the hugging, yes 15:56:39 well that's what i initially assumed, but the details don't quite seem to fit 15:56:45 mainly 15:56:50 Ooh, Edinburgh apparently has in international science festival. 15:56:52 oklopol, working out well. Not there today, the lab was cancelled. Lab was cancelled after the electricity system failed in that room. They were going to replace it today. 15:57:00