< 1302394014 540862 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree. < 1302394031 224513 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely won't be present in any shape for about ten more minutes. < 1302394242 740694 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1302394395 963875 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302394456 41555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1302394619 456059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Okay. < 1302394655 71737 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I'm not here just yet. Give it one more minute. < 1302394690 640169 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION arrives. < 1302394695 315771 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, everyone. How's it going? < 1302394696 24515 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1302394718 586090 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302394720 786154 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.49.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302394803 172985 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vardøger < 1302394927 605169 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent! < 1302395811 769779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Only a true artist can fail to draw a perfect circle. < 1302395977 104605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi tswett. < 1302395998 91430 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi elliott. < 1302396029 864649 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you subtly hinting at something? < 1302396040 896788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1302396055 471492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will, however, note that you seem to be 40 minutes late. < 1302396057 698582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it 20 minutes early? < 1302396098 254319 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it's 40 minutes late. < 1302396103 324843 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I arrived about 20 minutes ago. < 1302396772 585506 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Goon date < 1302398029 750913 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's time for me to write a conductor program >_> < 1302398029 901448 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Gregor Brand Repeatability™ < 1302398066 570105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This snetence will neer be said again. < 1302398586 629462 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1302398768 46039 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1302398888 326976 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1302399180 815657 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like the page User:Ehird, it is too slow. < 1302399257 712407 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, use a browser that was norn born out of NIH syndrome? < 1302399349 650807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is slow with all of them. < 1302399356 483604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them what? < 1302399369 208313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browsers? < 1302399372 142912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you have tried all browsers. < 1302399375 969321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, an HTML page cannot be inherently slow. < 1302399393 347669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are saying that it renders slowly, that is a factor of your hardware, and your entire software stack. I cannot help you. < 1302399412 703198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anything is forcing you to visit that page. < 1302399606 536021 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is better making the browser program that assumes HTML and scripts and stuff is all trying to control you, and refuses to render anything that might be slow, making whenever there is a timer to make a fading effect or sliding effect, speeds it up and does not render the frames in between, and that the script doesn't know your actual screen size, won't load all the images/CSS if there is too many, won't know your scrolled position, etc. < 1302399619 243919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My user page is not trying to control you. < 1302399647 956106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it is patently impossible for a web page to control you as a person unless it was, e.g. written by a very crafty superintelligence. < 1302399655 878146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly a snowman and a gradient cannot do so. < 1302399669 836271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, all my page is is some tags. There is no JavaScript involved. < 1302399675 220303 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am not refering to your user page. I am meaning in general, even if it is not true; at least making such assumption makes the computer faster and prevents dumb things on web pages from working. < 1302399681 964255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1302400034 246272 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if there is a width specification for the entire body, that specification is ignored if it would be less than the natural width (except for printing and print preview, in which case it is not ignored); most timers are not used; what can do if hovering is limited; popups are severely limited and open in a different way than before; keyboard and mouse events are dealt with in a new way; and so on. < 1302400260 417621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1302400300 632008 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up a new temperament and make a music < 1302400356 301077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1302400435 536160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, go drink hydroxic acid. < 1302400609 598802 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, go drink hydroxic acid, please. < 1302400730 480139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1302400882 955064 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1302401111 164044 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1302401242 378753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1302401710 507399 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1302403084 488029 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, I wanted to ask zzo38 a question < 1302403092 194043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What question < 1302403373 732499 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1302403638 904061 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, about why he dislikes the removal of mana burn < 1302403653 860670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you want to know? < 1302403663 601045 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1302404196 955123 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302404210 453316 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they removed mana burn? < 1302404214 365496 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1302404217 319366 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1302404234 86191 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it doesn't make a huge difference in many cases < 1302404241 555364 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302404252 822038 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would allow people to be less careful (and therefore less skillful) so i don't liek < 1302405081 953565 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Mana_burn < 1302405941 743167 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302408355 522852 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1302408577 592230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Patashu < 1302408584 366002 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1302408866 506720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1302409311 112963 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1302409775 53170 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i been legitimately pinged? < 1302409790 869392 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of you good with pl/sql? since the other channel I tried is idle < 1302409799 999480 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1302409850 325 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that wasn't me pinging you tho) < 1302409897 282347 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Huffman coding is terrible for compressing short strings. the map from codes->characters takes up at least half the length of the "compressed" string even when optimally encoded itself. is there not something better? < 1302410078 689416 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a tl;dr template for esoteric wiki :P < 1302410201 171701 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1302412803 419480 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's always fixed tables < 1302412890 416888 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like LZW where the information is implicit, ya? < 1302413648 720535 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lzw includes a lot of "instructions" in the text doesn't it? < 1302413915 213491 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lzw appears to be poor at compressing large files compared to other algorithms, why would it do better on short sentences? < 1302414155 337725 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're right that a fixed huffman table (based on average frequencies of characters in english language) would probably do well enough < 1302414278 382038 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should read up on arithmetic coding < 1302414583 269701 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recent PPM implementations are among the best-performing lossless compression programs for natural language text." < 1302414590 800511 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes sense < 1302414594 606564 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet that's the answer < 1302414890 346118 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, ppm are pretty awesome, but take a long time < 1302414917 105601 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how lzw compares to say, huffman, but you can't very well complain about small strings and then use large files as the counterexample < 1302414933 472014 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i guess you're looking for all-around compression? < 1302414948 98207 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there's some crazy version of paq < 1302414963 364717 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has like a neural network that governs the output based on a series of separate predictor models < 1302414974 128512 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1302417579 685095 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1302417629 843735 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302420512 800793 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302420592 91525 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1302423049 609177 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1302423223 766451 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: what do you need? < 1302423236 172111 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sup < 1302423262 729619 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some 'pl/sql'. I airquote it because on a logical level it does what I need to, but it doesn't fit the grammar so it won't compile < 1302423269 945388 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you help me think of ways to rework it so it will? http://pastebin.com/2ECDXR4i < 1302423306 914877 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an example, the holiday function does not compile, because I cannot use a subquery in that context < 1302423332 419924 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to ask questions < 1302423444 470891 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :where exactly are you using it? < 1302423484 216751 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :um can you repaste the text not in an sql pastebin, because it's annoying to read < 1302423499 400627 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait raw is below < 1302423499 923075 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1302423586 766855 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what server are you using it with? < 1302423637 168586 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :?????? < 1302423644 142744 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: ping < 1302423693 437186 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this thing on? < 1302423699 714728 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1302423702 866601 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1302423710 636384 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well yeah for obvious reasons you won't be able to run it < 1302423713 503660 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I'm on a dif. server < 1302423720 933426 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm asking you what software < 1302423735 192771 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oracle sql developer anddd a university db < 1302423736 713859 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you have this theoretical pl/sql supporting server that doesn't exist < 1302423739 655826 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1302423741 728920 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyways < 1302423748 135710 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason to use PL for this < 1302423751 586437 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a few joins < 1302423806 243603 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a table of future dates that have a bit flag for if it's a holiday or not < 1302423806 503803 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I was making good work of reducing it down to just joins < 1302423807 721842 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not quiiite < 1302423812 459964 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the day of week / holiday logic is a thing < 1302423821 192701 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's where you use "if" < 1302423828 859634 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you can't use if within sql < 1302423832 24771 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where I'm having trouble < 1302423847 827286 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/if-statement.html < 1302423859 681229 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if mysql can do it, oracle can do it < 1302423871 527711 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that looks like it's in mysql's equivalent to pl/sql < 1302423873 162143 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean to say < 1302423880 614156 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use if when it's not pure sql < 1302423884 83791 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's mid-query I can't < 1302423890 239720 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.devx.com/tips/Tip/20063 < 1302423896 853815 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's why you do four joins < 1302423921 553771 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually no.. just two ? i guess < 1302423937 989144 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do one big select for when the future day is a holiday, and one big select for when it's not < 1302423950 775669 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1302423952 359181 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1302423957 584603 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better way of doing it than I was trying < 1302423962 757644 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I may as well give in and split it into two queries < 1302423972 567050 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's not, you just select rows in the past that were not holidays and use a limit clause < 1302423973 127049 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like blurp da blurp da blurp FUCKASS LOGIC IN ONE QUERY < 1302423985 131452 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it is, you do a select over the past holidays with a limit < 1302424011 601108 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really something you could golf down to a oneliner < 1302424049 218691 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think about this then come back to you < 1302424122 391850 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so instead of a loop < 1302424133 381682 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp table with the future dates and whether they're a holiday or not < 1302424135 866858 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'd do that in a loop rather < 1302424137 751324 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :than just do some joins < 1302424259 721376 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1302424264 297927 :cheater-!~cheater@g230229011.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302425019 861270 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reworked it to be more sql'y http://pastebin.com/3mfVndyc < 1302425025 935950 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can make it better but hmmm < 1302425084 513820 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate the extra join when I'm actually making the forecast, but the way you have to do it is weird, see, you have to make a forecast whenever that tnifrmp/lr/hh/dayofweek combination has data and I have to not make one whenever it doesn't. however, if it turns out to be a holiday I have to not use the energy average from that dayofweek and instead use the holiday one, and put all 0s if none < 1302425084 663887 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :exists < 1302425301 744544 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1302425503 995524 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :any thoughts? < 1302425546 694849 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait lol, it's telling me boolean isn't a valid datatype? one second < 1302425590 553362 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, it isn't. it's only valid in pl/sql < 1302425713 418319 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry had someone at the door < 1302425724 163790 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1302425726 981837 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to store it as a char or number(1) apparently. gay < 1302425730 713867 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw away your code and just build it up the way i told you < 1302425738 223521 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you have BIT? < 1302425747 15264 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I tried to and I ended up with that again, so I'm obviously not thinking about it the right way < 1302425754 141747 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1302425770 54678 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : you do one big select for when the future day is a holiday, and one big select for when it's not < 1302425776 63945 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaah < 1302425776 330905 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) when it's not, you just select rows in the past that were not holidays and use a limit clause < 1302425781 624599 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me when you're done with (1) < 1302425785 258417 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and show me the code < 1302425823 30286 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also nope, no bit http://ss64.com/ora/syntax-datatypes.html < 1302425824 406071 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask me why < 1302425824 942015 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bit < 1302425884 751923 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wait before I start < 1302425888 823862 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: < 1302425889 514313 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :create table tbool (bool char check (bool in(0,1)); < 1302425889 679757 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert into tbool values(0); < 1302425889 828091 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert into tbool values(1); < 1302425897 4862 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do this for every future day < 1302425902 124357 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I create a table with 14 dates in it < 1302425902 288097 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302425905 364153 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or enclose it in a 1..13 loop < 1302425907 40105 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never mind that just use a char < 1302425912 595808 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there another way, synthesize a table in a subquery? < 1302425913 449209 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you start optimizing < 1302425918 300527 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@62.119.155.253 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1302425922 407224 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok just do the select before i get tired < 1302425925 141700 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1302425926 191751 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1302425968 327923 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on it? < 1302425971 334751 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1302425975 451626 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1302426084 518878 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :done? < 1302426133 197724 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll leave you to it a bit :p < 1302426141 926372 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll brb, need to go out for a sec < 1302426146 168735 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1302426427 157171 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity < 1302426456 100326 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok here's my attempt http://pastebin.com/mr46GfAP < 1302426623 466513 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh forgot something in the holiday version < 1302426638 683728 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually nvm < 1302427128 19716 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the controversial step of fixing it until it compiles O_O < 1302427174 637921 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOT IT TO COMPILE *rocks da fuck out* < 1302427251 409201 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/nN5BpbRW < 1302427329 68473 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a FOR there < 1302427368 499709 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1302427380 828372 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to make the table of days I'm forecasting to to join against < 1302427384 958341 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a pure sql way of implementing that? < 1302427399 732777 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :select trunc(sysdate+rowid) from dual where rowid > 0 and rowid < 14; < 1302427401 297624 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1302427412 602857 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what the row id variable is named in oracle < 1302427423 399722 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual only has one row but that's a good idea < 1302427444 485294 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right i forgot < 1302427449 103375 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah there was something like that < 1302427454 735638 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe use LIMIT or something < 1302427469 128381 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can fix that later < 1302427548 300915 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I tried running it, took 28 seconds. that is an awful time < 1302427599 611797 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it didn't appear to make any rows either lmao < 1302427600 664189 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fml < 1302427641 987801 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :still better than your shitty pl/sql < 1302427653 432060 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. 5 marks if it compiles < 1302427655 8959 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can be optimized and is functional < 1302427659 286478 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 5 marks if you can run it and it does something < 1302427663 302045 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1302427663 812884 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it just needs to do the correct thing < 1302427671 378947 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it not? < 1302427675 371542 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadn't been through the code yet < 1302427676 586723 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :any thoughts? here's the output: 0 rows < 1302427681 650714 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to < 1302427685 776016 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran for 28 seconds then did nothing < 1302427725 366398 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1302427725 637567 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :from v_nem_rm16 n join forecast_day f on to_char(f.day, 'D') = to_char(n.day, 'D') < 1302427725 789787 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1302427725 789940 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : and f.day not in (select trunc(holiday_date) from dbp_holiday) < 1302427740 344996 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that be "where f.day not in ..." ? < 1302427747 198414 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw dbp_holiday has 50 rows and v_nem_rm16 has 47k rows < 1302427757 924162 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm < 1302427771 764990 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take it down to just the non-holiday version < 1302427773 232657 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :get that to work < 1302427776 796375 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then look at the bulkier half < 1302427802 955659 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is forecast_day? < 1302427806 97202 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and holiday_date? < 1302427818 147431 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :forecast_day is the table holding the 14 days into the future I'm forecasting for < 1302427822 802716 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :holiday_date has every date that is a holiday < 1302427847 89706 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your to_char(f.day, 'D') might be screwy < 1302427894 750171 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it returns the day of the week, 7 for sunday 1 for monday etc < 1302427897 618192 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tried it < 1302427902 293563 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean the USAGE of it < 1302427910 236292 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok, then it's fine < 1302427919 60269 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does the "non holidays" part do < 1302427921 367656 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it ok? < 1302427927 498668 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :do a forecast for one day < 1302427931 218404 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1302427935 934080 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs in 0.3 seconds with just the non holidays part < 1302427936 586949 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :good sign < 1302427944 293653 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1302427967 676564 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and produced 28464 rows < 1302427980 100330 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably because v_nem_rm16 is not indexed. < 1302427988 862985 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue if it's indexed or not < 1302427993 230451 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok just select one of em and compare it to the data you get < 1302428015 279859 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thing is < 1302428020 998509 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to check my results except by doing another query < 1302428024 202185 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be wrong too < 1302428027 462477 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolol < 1302428041 505050 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :query past days and calculate average by hand. < 1302428074 474804 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :47k rows < 1302428088 886451 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said for one day < 1302428094 13888 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, for one combination of your three variables < 1302428097 764805 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1302428208 923252 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1302428253 373920 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I tried one blah blah combination < 1302428256 108663 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like the same result < 1302428263 669887 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll check that as 'complete or ought to be' < 1302428266 355113 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do the non holiday part < 1302428274 835557 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what made my query take 30 sec to produce nothing < 1302428458 567265 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebinning again http://pastebin.com/ysL5UyUP also thanks SO MUCH hahaha < 1302428622 257955 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I take it I made a horrible cross join by mistake so I need to Not Do That < 1302428767 972982 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow. only took 3 seconds this time < 1302428770 834560 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I do a thing??? < 1302428859 212885 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. it still only produces 28464 rows :( < 1302428862 904286 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the holiday part isn't doing its job < 1302428937 742120 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302429256 681076 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what cross join? < 1302429270 806748 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this is weird. if I do this: < 1302429271 865936 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :select trunc(holiday_date) from dbp_holiday < 1302429272 193099 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERSECT < 1302429272 343495 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :select trunc(day) from v_nem_rm16; < 1302429273 417730 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get 0 rows < 1302429292 12422 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :has he not put any past holidays aligning with data? because...that makes it hard to test! < 1302429293 292685 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's NVL? < 1302429300 764661 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvl means 'in case of null, put this instead' < 1302429322 582943 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think you need to soften your algorithm < 1302429327 79882 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's an offline thing < 1302429340 441577 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a couple of seconds < 1302429349 558448 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then it's good < 1302429352 420881 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (if this were to actually be used in production) it'd run once a day < 1302429352 911924 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to fix < 1302429353 759540 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's fine < 1302429365 522460 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it going to run on a high availability service? < 1302429371 330935 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well < 1302429372 372868 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine < 1302429381 400748 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1302429384 272624 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I just put up there? < 1302429393 73180 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah some code < 1302429393 236591 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently no past holidays align with data he's put in < 1302429397 683504 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that statement is correct < 1302429402 58923 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't read it < 1302429406 549525 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1302429422 506962 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then try selecting a holiday in the next 14 days < 1302429429 10448 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't find any here's your answer < 1302429434 325207 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do, then keep digging < 1302429472 454426 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one of those holidays, select all days from the past on that weekday, and only select rows where that day is a holiday < 1302429512 744808 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :22/apr/11 is listed as a holiday, so is 23 and 25, and today's the 10 so < 1302429513 841278 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1302429603 363970 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I do this: select day from forecast_day where day in (select trunc(holiday_date) from dbp_holiday); I get 22nd and 23rd of april back < 1302429621 179113 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I do this: select day from v_nem_rm16 where day in (select trunc(holiday_date) from dbp_holiday); < 1302429631 721140 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I literally can't test it right now unless I make my own data to test it on < 1302429631 983739 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1302429729 562203 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for all your help < 1302429958 163138 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: i doubt it's a neural network. i think it would be easier and have better results if they applied boosting or WM to their set of predictive experts. < 1302430173 710478 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1302430177 528042 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized i can't count to 14 < 1302430178 660552 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :go me < 1302430197 100478 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the lecturer literally said < 1302430207 220226 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :'you'd be surprised how many people don't forecast for 14 days exactly' < 1302430210 506520 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those people was almost me < 1302430460 467817 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1302430571 475344 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I really love the setup oracle sql developer gives you < 1302430574 55035 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a big blank worksheet < 1302430578 50457 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can select any block of text and execute it < 1302430590 91420 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just doodle wherever your cursor happens to be I <3 it < 1302431274 850039 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql workbench is better < 1302431282 733609 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sql developer is like a really old version < 1302431289 700866 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you want is jdeveloper and use the sql bits in that < 1302431675 150513 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :jdeveloper, huh? < 1302431704 450740 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1302432251 616934 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1302432335 800686 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1302432415 544696 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1302433024 853509 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1302433126 310284 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :This snetence will neer be said again. < 1302433132 483127 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly. < 1302433428 997020 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a real bastard u know that < 1302433457 163368 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-112-151.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're an integer bastard < 1302433586 296739 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least i'm not complex. < 1302433591 136005 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i... < 1302433965 661866 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have this red stuff that's really hot and i never learn < 1302434704 528508 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you read laws of form? < 1302434782 911454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what does "neer" there mean < 1302434804 833745 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ask elliott... < 1302434812 848522 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no < 1302434825 397588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, he is not here atm, since you used it I presume you know what it means? < 1302434846 459273 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was _assuming_ it meant never. < 1302434891 201169 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you would seem to be missing the joke again < 1302434892 3492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1302434901 630822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there was a joke? < 1302434923 695346 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1302434930 943321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what was it? < 1302434940 221642 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be telling. < 1302434962 445230 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but searching for neer in the logs _should_ clear things up. < 1302435016 10615 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks like a cool book < 1302435042 731344 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.4shared.com/get/bBAP7ovO/G-spencer-Brown-Laws-of-Form-1.html < 1302436067 431916 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a load of crap to me < 1302436083 254252 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1302437491 698139 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-90-63.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1302437491 848436 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-90-63.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1302437491 848575 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1302437666 367112 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1302437790 119206 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1302437830 939015 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-43.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302438166 553256 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302440200 807698 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1302440244 19163 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's a formalization of mathematical logic < 1302440262 776044 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it allows you to evaluate statements such as "This sentence is false." < 1302441020 105570 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1302441023 278169 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT'S NOT! < 1302441613 803948 :Slereah!~buttes@ANantes-259-1-112-151.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT TRUE THEN? < 1302442225 499761 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1302442432 88613 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cn't be :Ds < 1302442694 996336 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1302442708 106251 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah < 1302442712 823795 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that was my reaction < 1302442721 294686 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically this book is cool < 1302442730 596544 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was even mentioned by russell as a good book < 1302442750 510977 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact the preface quotes him saying he's happy someone came up with this stuff before he died < 1302446290 464425 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1302446397 71705 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302446810 33645 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1302447302 677934 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1302447390 621995 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302449002 6190 :ZOMGMODULES!~catseye@adsl-99-74-83-131.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302449135 286391 :ZOMGMODULES!~catseye@adsl-99-74-83-131.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is no support for user defined generics yet. However, three built-in classes List, Map, and Func can be parameterized using a special syntax." < 1302449150 128188 :ZOMGMODULES!~catseye@adsl-99-74-83-131.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so glad that Func can be parameterized < 1302449186 32646 :ZOMGMODULES!~catseye@adsl-99-74-83-131.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, it does not seem to be the SAME special syntax used for all three type constructors < 1302449191 371933 :ZOMGMODULES!~catseye@adsl-99-74-83-131.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would have been nice. < 1302449305 739582 :ZOMGMODULES!~catseye@adsl-99-74-83-131.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1302449922 320529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : sadly, it does not seem to be the SAME special syntax used for all three type constructors <-- what language? < 1302450134 828476 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1302450377 509848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1302450434 200303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:31:37: elliott: Huffman coding is terrible for compressing short strings. the map from codes->characters takes up at least half the length of the "compressed" string even when optimally encoded itself. is there not something better? < 1302450441 100443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: fix the map, duh < 1302450453 682071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:34:38: someone should make a tl;dr template for esoteric wiki :P < 1302450453 846956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should buy an attention span :) < 1302450485 708079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:38:35: also lzw appears to be poor at compressing large files compared to other algorithms, why would it do better on short sentences? < 1302450486 231984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1302450868 596139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg i just missed zomgmodules < 1302450882 746332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's synchronicity < 1302450896 832836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater discovers worst book ever, loves it, zomgmodules appears, disappears < 1302450900 657068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like synchronicity to me < 1302450915 997794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find the author's proof of riemann hypothesis < 1302450932 543935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In a 1976 letter to the Editor of Nature, Spencer-Brown claimed a proof of the four-color theorem, which is not computer-assisted.[2] The preface of the 1979 edition of Laws of Form repeats that claim, and further states that the generally accepted computational proof by Appel, Haken, and Koch has 'failed' (page xii). Spencer-Brown's claimed proof of the four-color theorem has yet to find any defenders; Kauffman provides a detailed review of pa < 1302450932 706476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rts of that work.[3][4]]] < 1302450938 835174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmf where's the riemann one! < 1302450976 755526 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302451004 11228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE WE GO < 1302451004 829834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de/~linde/weblog/GSB-RHproof.pdf < 1302451071 242111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lawsofform.org/gsb/nature.html ;; ooh, the four colour theorem too! < 1302451075 621429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual proof i mean < 1302451077 910200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his genius knows no bounds < 1302451703 193185 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302451893 144285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : omg i just missed zomgmodules <-- "just"? It was about over 15 minutes. < 1302451900 821349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302452080 338815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I presume he didn't publish either in peer reviewed papers? < 1302452499 76917 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302452516 681575 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1302452707 538371 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302452841 518870 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302452841 519013 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302452841 669264 :enki-[quit]!~john@c-24-63-206-22.hsd1.ct.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302453678 422858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lol < 1302453688 24129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 15 minutes is 0 seconds, on a global scale < 1302453739 922791 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1302453951 874779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, on a truly global scale, you just missed Archimedes too. < 1302454519 150031 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302455172 174939 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302455217 116502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed. very sad. < 1302455826 519676 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1302456030 428899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which MI game do you think is best? < 1302456043 937673 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1302456045 395037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1302456128 668608 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1302456259 873871 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1302456397 727991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1302456876 8949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY are PC cases so stupid. < 1302456893 594247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hdds should be at the back, and connectors at the front. Well okay, power connector could be at the back < 1302456916 214947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not headphones < 1302456933 986720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two usb connectors on the front. And the hdd bays < 1302456944 704349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you think about it, this arrangement makes no sense < 1302456957 961794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have hot-swap bays for the hdds, which I don't < 1302457150 376489 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302458487 451765 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1302458512 223426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a Dungeons&Dragons class called "Feater" class, they get feats but not much else < 1302458586 551981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what's the point of it? < 1302458813 562647 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make a new class, and see if it works. I put feats at every even number level and some weaker things at odd number levels < 1302458822 994566 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it is good, yet. < 1302459775 997042 :nottwo!~trannie@nottwo.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302459781 856512 :nottwo!~trannie@nottwo.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1302459945 935902 :enki-[quit]!~john@c-24-63-206-22.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302460107 933066 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1302460305 516757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1302460334 304166 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302460705 35845 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a good portable MIDI library? That is, for both reading MIDI files and for communicating with MIDI devices. portmidi/portsmf doesn't look too promising, though it might be sufficient. < 1302460721 337426 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, does anybody happen to know one) < 1302460726 100879 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1302460727 301189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of one. < 1302460775 14120 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302460842 664191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suspect the two things will be separate < 1302460860 857006 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's fine, but I just don't know if portmidi/portsmf is the best we can do :P < 1302460963 604731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: portaudio is pretty popular < 1302460965 813773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming those are part of it < 1302460983 545853 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1302460990 478713 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But AFAICT, portmidi sucks and nobody ever uses it :P < 1302460997 830124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well only fags use midi, any quetions < 1302461203 892722 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@093105167222.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302461302 132168 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why do you dislike the removal of mana burn? < 1302461458 946601 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: I like the rule of mana burn, it allows some strategy. There are also rules that I didn't like too, such as some of the rules relating to planeswalker cards (I like the idea, but not the implementation; I also dislike the name for confusion with "Plainswalk"), rule about a Aura which is also a creature being discarded, and so on. < 1302461681 218653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have created some of my own variant rules for a variant of the game, such as rules for "Playercard" type, and for "entities" which is a generalization of "objects", etc. I do, however, like the name "Exile zone" for what was called "remove from game" zone, since it isn't really remove from game. However, I would rather call the "Library" the "draw zone", the "Graveyard" the "discard zone", and maybe calling "in play" (or "Battlefield") the "p < 1302461739 914193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did the message get cut off?) < 1302461849 765131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1302461965 782161 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, where did it get cut? < 1302461982 891947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Battlefield") the " < 1302462113 884099 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, Portal I think had more "game-y" names < 1302462117 771019 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1302462173 631683 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and maybe calling "in play" (or "Battlefield") the "permanent zone". < 1302462348 424745 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have invented rules for the "playercard" type that counts as both a player and a permanent at the same time. They never get a turn, but if they make choices, their choices are decided by their controller. The number of their life points is equal to the number of their loyalty counters (or perhaps rename them to "life counters"?), loss of life results in loss of counters and gain life results gain counters. < 1302462356 583537 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a playercard wins or loses the game, it is discarded. < 1302462366 180449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the game is not over.) < 1302462380 172997 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1302462441 236182 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions? < 1302462478 590787 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note, when I was trying to describe these various of my rules to some other people who played the game, they did not understand and thought I was trying to make the life total into another player.) < 1302463213 849452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Did the message get cut off?) <-- you might want an IRC client that automatically splits at the best word boundary < 1302463541 548905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302463582 287045 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could program in a maximum if necessary, and then it will ding like some typewriters might. < 1302464880 402582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1302465167 959682 :clog!nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1302466122 103038 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1302467602 521535 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302468043 50603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor will be so happy, they've compiled poppler and freetype to JS. < 1302468297 525102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean you can write a JS-only PDF reader? < 1302468309 810943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :already done < 1302468311 18768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://syntensity.com/static/poppler.html < 1302468315 961194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(external pdf loading only works on FF4) < 1302468322 256410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(downloads 12 Mio) < 1302468329 201548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think it's a one-page reader, but whatever < 1302468524 26842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor will be so happy, they've compiled poppler and freetype to JS. <-- uh does that mean they have a generic C->JS compiler? < 1302468554 470712 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LLVM one, right? < 1302468556 696284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, even better < 1302468558 598467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM->JS < 1302468564 415610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so awesome < 1302468567 764134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the performance? < 1302468594 117312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1302468597 693072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :emscripten. < 1302468605 661513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is the performance though < 1302468684 924714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not great < 1302468689 261223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or my computer sucks < 1302468690 754788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both < 1302469354 150291 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1302469722 130845 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1302469727 707459 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1302469753 58922 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Guest42334 < 1302469838 990199 :Guest42334!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1302470002 469913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey elliott: out of all the common household objects found in most homes, which of them would it be most hilarious to actually be sentient and be plotting a conspiracy, but too simple-minded to do anything but set up levels of bureaucracy? < 1302470014 98619 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: um it seems like glogbot doesn't show nick changes... < 1302470017 485489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1302470021 133653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your question has floored me < 1302470024 922080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1302470029 549060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok wait < 1302470033 260211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: socks < 1302470041 192283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I like < 1302470055 943431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mainly because of http://qntm.org/socks :) < 1302470064 658950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be a cheating way to answer < 1302470075 118774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, indeed < 1302470098 547209 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The occupants. < 1302470123 576634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's a nice lateral-thinking solution, I suppose < 1302470174 198840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed it's cheating? < 1302470178 512662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what on earth is this for anyway :) < 1302470189 70807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BlogNomic < 1302470207 298047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way you assumed there was an actual motive behind the question < 1302470220 152360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there was, but it seems like a surprising assumption) < 1302470239 664049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, /usually/ you don't ask things quite so... err... that < 1302470247 230763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not to someone in particular :) < 1302470247 722237 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that may make answering more fun < 1302470262 135536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ais523 is figuring out how solid the defences of his race, the washing machines, are < 1302470267 841035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has concluded that WE SUSPECT NOTHING < 1302470275 819726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will be relaying this information on to his masters < 1302470372 264314 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : 04:34:38: someone should make a tl;dr template for esoteric wiki :P < 1302470393 758733 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1302470394 465036 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been thinking that the language list should contain one-line descriptions < 1302470407 49229 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a bad idea < 1302470411 519911 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 NICK :quintopia < 1302470412 76048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grrs as he removes an {{unsigned}} < 1302470417 422546 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1302470417 573768 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1302470428 234135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523: where do P.S.es go in a letter? < 1302470430 572146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :after your signature or before? < 1302470435 719919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you put another signature after the P.S.? < 1302470440 480378 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :after < 1302470441 300551 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-43.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1302470443 66743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the signature, no extra signature < 1302470444 378898 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1302470450 303024 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start my PS:es after the signature < 1302470456 611209 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't write letters < 1302470470 446513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can do PSes in email too < 1302470478 488741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :observe: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gravity/w/w/wiki/Talk:Gravity/w/index.php&diff=21796&oldid=21775 < 1302470479 634288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1302470481 615355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's less of a reason < 1302470486 656373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you're meant to have two signatures! < 1302470517 508782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote That's for $literals in the parser. It should maybe be atol too, but probably you shouldn't have nonterminals with more than two billion children. < 1302470520 339891 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :358) That's for $literals in the parser. It should maybe be atol too, but probably you shouldn't have nonterminals with more than two billion children. < 1302470565 490702 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fairly often have PS:es in my e-mails < 1302470583 35894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the purpose of a PS: was so that you could write more after you'd already written/typeset the letter < 1302470607 220308 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is/was ... I use them as appendices < 1302470628 527148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for snarky remarks and footnote-alikes < 1302470630 82167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly snarky remarks < 1302470796 212696 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. < 1302470909 500416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: hello. < 1302471540 81502 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1302471546 356630 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pophangover.com/wp-content/uploads/will-ferrell-twitter.jpg < 1302471981 127198 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1302472019 11200 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now both logs seems to be broken. < 1302472031 619746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso < 1302472053 974794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog is broken, but Gregor's is still on < 1302472070 368880 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me they both seem broken. < 1302472075 898752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? < 1302472080 12791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is broken about Gregor's? < 1302472104 664898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's won't load at all. The clog will load, but there is no messages past 12:35:48 < 1302472124 342298 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem a tad non-loading < 1302472124 511051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It loads for me. Your internet connection is probably having problems. clog is indeed broken. < 1302472132 619028 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it did < 1302472133 546904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It loads perfectly here... < 1302472162 202992 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i had to reload it too, but then it worked < 1302472189 696688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works now < 1302472227 13109 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ok the nick change complaint was just the logs failing to update until now, then < 1302472257 641582 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although at that time reloading didn't work either < 1302472307 779120 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and _now_ it updated without even reloading, just using forward button in browser < 1302472318 892501 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1302472325 759930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb clog < 1302472336 488436 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now #esoteric is clogged again! < 1302472352 768672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog: I HATEEE YOUUU < 1302472400 726725 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write a letter, the postscript (PS) message is after the "Sincerely" line, especially when writing by hand. When writing a letter by computer I usually do not use a postscript message. < 1302472426 246551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never say anything sincerely < 1302472431 421267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sign my messages < 1302472432 232627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quack, < 1302472433 545124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Duck < 1302472435 19308 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :who writes letters by hand? really? < 1302472439 168887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: zzo38 < 1302472444 913409 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently! < 1302472458 125011 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You mean, you don't write letters by hand? < 1302472463 735384 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should sign them Duck, A Quack < 1302472477 611263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i did that once but then i lost my medical license? < 1302472478 799664 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict, there has been no reason to do that since about 1990 which was before I learned to write < 1302472479 181288 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and them include a homeopathic bomb < 1302472493 604511 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1302472494 644921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a homeopathic one one that contains only one atom of actual explosive? < 1302472494 908794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1302472505 795677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, since when do homeopathic remedies contain a whole ATOM?? < 1302472510 843699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*homeopathic bomb < 1302472516 909109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some of them probably do, by chance < 1302472517 566731 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people add postscript messages to every message, and as par for the course? < 1302472520 970037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's unlikely < 1302472525 920345 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then it will only explode a little bit? < 1302472529 700454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more like, they're made out of random rain < 1302472534 276195 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they do like it originally was meant- to add something you think of after writing it, but before sending it < 1302472535 645904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: after all, it's probably rained once or twice in chernobyl < 1302472538 973908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and that was nuclear < 1302472543 113662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the water memory ... < 1302472550 559474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good point < 1302472568 174193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: When I add a postscript message, it is usually for that purpose. < 1302472619 618430 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I believe some people think postscripts somehow are proof that they're good writers well versed in the art of writing letters, and so add them _while composing the letter_ < 1302472665 758501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :postscripts are for snarky comments < 1302472667 502392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of discussion :D < 1302472693 482626 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I doubt water memory can last for even one second in a gravitational field (or even outside of a gravitational field), but other people think they can make water memory with telephones. < 1302472694 873013 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS: Postscripts don't obey ends of discussion < 1302472703 95083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ... What ... < 1302472724 566292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: I doubt water memory can last for even one second in a gravitational field (or even outside of a gravitational field), but other people think they can make water memory with telephones. < 1302472727 529247 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :359) elliott: I doubt water memory can last for even one second in a gravitational field (or even outside of a gravitational field), but other people think they can make water memory with telephones. < 1302472764 155912 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume he means that without gravitation, at least water shape might be preserved... < 1302472810 788460 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait surface tension would ruin that < 1302472843 32136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when you assume, you make an ass out of u and zzo38 < 1302472883 746851 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume you are talking out of your ass < 1302473005 443729 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Sometimes I write the postscript for things that I want to write but that does not belong to the letter, but usually it is for things I forgot. < 1302473509 680454 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1302473564 547630 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cephalopod sighted < 1302473645 694189 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2002, the Roman composer Nicola Sani composed Con Fuoco (for hyperbass flute and 8-track magnetic tape), <-- wtf < 1302473698 371923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: AWESOME < 1302473712 946337 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto it en fuoco < 1302473714 733227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ten times more awesome than ANYTHING YOU WILL EVER DO < 1302473715 816739 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fire < 1302473727 500862 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *sobblecopter* < 1302474140 376299 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hola elliott. < 1302474144 123355 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hecho en Durango. < 1302474163 28708 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sólo necesitas... < 1302474171 171029 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uno. < 1302474212 338615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fart. < 1302474217 212845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S SPNAIHS LOL < 1302474239 920879 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pienso que la palabra que buscas es "pedo". < 1302474257 433273 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ¿haces pedo? < 1302474478 626442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm a paedophile, yes. < 1302474479 421942 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1302474600 593385 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Como entrenar tu dragón. < 1302474710 302421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re: Why it works < 1302474712 354278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. All I can say is that two's complement only has to be actually implemented where the resulting numbers are actually used; a simple addition or subtraction module wouldn't care a bit (no pun intended). --Ihope127 01:49, 25 August 2005 (UTC) < 1302474715 487779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON MY WIKIPEDIA TALK PAGE < 1302474755 919248 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about? I have no idea who that is. < 1302474767 383837 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Wikipedia account is User:Tanner Swett. < 1302474799 904321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure < 1302474858 293877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On nicknames: 10.08.22:11:56:02 But this one is awful. < 1302474869 413966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1302474871 14202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1302474877 642253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why the /cycle? < 1302474882 293429 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was I saying that the username "tswett" is awful? < 1302474883 617101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a mistake < 1302474889 483557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1302474895 734740 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't believe you. < 1302474895 899702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas my mistakes tend to be parts, not cycles < 1302474904 449554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 11:55:55 The only nick I'm actually considering is tswett, so if you want to take what I want from me, register that one. < 1302474907 102842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:55:59 --- nick: swett -> tswett < 1302474907 253001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:56:02 But this one is awful. < 1302474917 133369 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1302474930 634795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky you! < 1302474937 206892 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has ceased to be awful. < 1302474951 738600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Note "swett -> tswett" :P < 1302474983 346211 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I also change nicks in between '5:55 and '5:59? < 1302475002 812859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a direct paste. < 1302475013 954533 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1302475026 190850 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there were two of me in play at the time. < 1302475031 739432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1302475033 167090 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny what can happen with today's technology. < 1302475035 932684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the yous was me. < 1302475049 869261 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's impossible. Even with today's technology. < 1302475069 371430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I want you to think. < 1302475100 998524 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're pretty benevolent, so I should probably think whatever you want me to think. < 1302475106 344407 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else do you want me to think? < 1302475134 574698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Giving all my money except that which I require to survive to elliott and devoting my life to developing @ is the best possible thing I could do." < 1302475158 45000 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1302475170 418524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett: don't < 1302475178 661438 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll probably have a much better time surviving if I go through university. < 1302475194 131593 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll probably have a much better time developing @ if I survive. < 1302475199 215537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That statement was only in the context of money. < 1302475201 941571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, damn. < 1302475208 266860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's okay. < 1302475210 20187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can wait. < 1302475214 843750 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I should put all my time and money toward university. < 1302475217 580789 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1302475242 317530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: "Spending lots of my free time on developing @ is an excellent idea. Free time is defined as those periods of time in which I have completed all currently necessary work for university." < 1302475272 219747 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course. < 1302475272 875257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, which Windows IRC client should I recommend to people? < 1302475283 104393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Linux < 1302475287 405455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1302475291 85804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that might be the answer < 1302475295 943792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more seriously, one of the free XChats < 1302475296 599160 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :PuTTY is pretty good if you know what you're doing. < 1302475303 887173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Silverex. < 1302475308 532045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: PuTTY is not an IRC client by itself. < 1302475312 270707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you like to type PRIVMSG a lot. < 1302475316 394835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.silverex.org/news/ < 1302475325 34573 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely what I'm saying. < 1302475344 622692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1302475353 113246 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use PuTTY, but still, it is not good as an IRC client by itself (for more than one reason, actually; it isn't only because of typing PRIVMSG a lot). < 1302475353 922692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think http://code.google.com/p/xchat-wdk/ is more actively developed < 1302475385 89446 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you would need the messages being received not to override what you are typing, and also ping-pong, as well. < 1302475402 778114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed (http://code.google.com/p/xchat-wdk/wiki/InfoComparison) < 1302475411 225183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :silverex seems to be closed source, which is ugh < 1302475415 483841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: agreed < 1302475420 826456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what license is xchat under? < 1302475438 273594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GPL, but the Windows builds are for-pay < 1302475440 450266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're assholes < 1302475452 404656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they used to be free, but they decided they weren't getting enough money off suckers) < 1302475457 391346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus xchat-wdk < 1302475472 182100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, GPL, but pay for them to give you the binaries? < 1302475496 380685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the source tree doesn't work on windows, IIRC < 1302475500 879587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why xchat-wdk and the like have to patch it < 1302475504 146330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a Unix program < 1302475510 278310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sort of) < 1302475534 344201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, they're violating the GPL, but it doesn't matter if they wrote all the code themselves because they could have issued a separate license to themselves < 1302475543 21400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they're not < 1302475547 257859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth does that violate the GPL? < 1302475554 151724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :binaries without matching source? < 1302475560 704089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1302475567 792742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if silverex is then illegal < 1302475572 19695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :source is available but it doesn't match the binaries, I'm pretty sure it doesn't count < 1302475577 162140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it might be more, custom build system < 1302475580 43024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :than source code changes < 1302475585 108522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that violates GPL 3, but not GPL 2 < 1302475788 662972 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought xchat on Windows was from the regular source, I don't think it had any separate sources ... < 1302475806 233188 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they made people pay for binaries just because they assume that Windozers won't compile. < 1302475823 606948 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A wholly-supported assumption) < 1302475823 871312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They say it's "difficult" and "not automated" and blah blah blah. < 1302475824 386618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I once came across a program that was GPL source + "shareware" binary on Windows < 1302475828 216765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they at least have a separate build system. < 1302475834 561454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AKA XChat < 1302475835 899326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they gave a cut-down version that had a 30-day trial, and asked you to pay to keep it for longer < 1302475842 349071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, depends on the definition of shareware :P < 1302475852 222120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely it has to mean something it doesn't mean >_> < 1302475853 367726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just used the source to see how the free-trial code worked, and patched it out < 1302475868 269551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR you telling us about this < 1302475873 158842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a fork of gcc, right/ < 1302475874 963173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right? < 1302476032 438724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1302476064 809280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care if they make people pay for binaries as long as you can still compile it by yourself (without too much difficulty) and redistribute copies (modified or not) under the same terms, and that someone selling it by itself does not claim it is official distribution unless they: have permission, make substantial modifications, or include it as part of other things. < 1302476080 927146 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or changes the name. < 1302476306 9650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some ideas for GPL v4 for what they might make in future: One is to have a copy of the license formatted in Plain TeX for CWEB programs (and other documents). Another is to allow the licensor to specify that their version is official and unofficial one should be marked differently (such as a different package, a different name, or a different scheme for version numbers), as long as such things cannot affect the usage of the software and < 1302476382 524208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I read somewhere they wanted to include the GNU Manifesto with GPL licensed software? I don't think so, but perhaps include a shortened form of it in the preamble of the license. < 1302476402 882300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another is to allow the licensor to specify that their version is official and unofficial one should be marked differently <--- GPLv3 allows reasonable restrictions like that < 1302476482 675248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I read the license but am not sure about everything completely < 1302476495 929429 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1302476532 1219 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have forked some GPL software (some version 2 and some version 3), I had made sure to make specified not confused with original software, either by changing the name or using a different version numbering scheme. < 1302476572 542877 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1302476573 111962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same name, different version numbering scheme: Not confusing at all! < 1302476582 711934 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is sometimes done with MegaZeux, the different forked versions are usually given different version numbering schemes or some title after the program but before the version number. < 1302476658 68706 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it depends what kind of version numbering scheme. It has to be one that cannot be confused with others. For example, I made MegaZeux versions numbered "P1", "P2", "P3" and so on; while some other forks use other notations in the version numbers. < 1302476706 578025 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1302476739 687446 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you fork something, you can mark it as a fork simply by sticking another word after the title? < 1302476761 168180 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302476764 66213 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Chromium Indigo, or GHC Indigo, or NetHack Indigo? < 1302476773 35446 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though NetHack isn't under the GPL, of course. < 1302476779 305555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you do not allow it to get confused with other things, I guess. < 1302476791 457782 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's under the GPL, but it's the wrong one. :P < 1302476852 166212 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess your example works. < 1302476854 381107 :invariable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/io failed < 1302476871 496421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I did not write the GPL or the other licenses. < 1302476871 646659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's under a modified version of the Bison license < 1302476875 719036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like GPL 0 < 1302476886 133549 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL Indigo. :P < 1302476902 607007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, really? < 1302476909 1373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know Bison predated the GPL < 1302476911 87609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NetHack, that is < 1302476915 111575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what license was GPL 1 under? < 1302476920 264744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1302476922 627082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC 1 < 1302476923 326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-derivs < 1302476930 153278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? < 1302476932 460243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's awful < 1302476935 523750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's the license GPL 1 was under < 1302476938 340098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc 1, I don't know < 1302476950 191983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a little ridiculous that the GPL is under no-derivs, but there you go < 1302476962 621019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FSF doesn't believe in license-freedom for anything but software < 1302476969 341528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once modified the WTFPL to be under the WTFPL < 1302476973 923090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to amuse myself < 1302476975 451614 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1302476983 557673 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1302477012 102719 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are informally allowed to modify the GPL as long as they remove certain stuff. < 1302477020 964456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1302477021 701648 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPL can be modified to make something that is not the GPL, but only to make a new license for different software, and you have to remove the preamble and postamble, and should not be called the same thing. That is how GPL itself is licensed. < 1302477074 680276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it is usually discouraged due to causing incompatibilities (you can specify explicit compatibility if you want to, though, I guess). < 1302477315 402203 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other ideas for GPL v4 (if they choose to use these ideas) is something regarding literate programming, if that would help. < 1302477348 471796 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you sell the book it would be a good idea to include a copy of the license in the book as well as a machine-readable copy such as a DVD in the back of the book, or something like that. < 1302477387 474900 :cheater00!~cheater@g228063147.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1302477563 245359 :cheater99!~cheater@e181132179.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302478098 996548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, there appears to be no gmp irc channel < 1302478128 632880 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Tell them to make one < 1302478136 146590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1302478137 161359 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell the gmp < 1302478351 4184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1302478425 373133 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1302478450 901145 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1302478503 661559 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1302478563 724706 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1302478596 775861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LGPL, AGPL, and FDL, are not available in ODF, and none of them are available in Plain TeX. Also, the LGPL is not available in LaTeX. And they have GNU license logos but not with METAFONT. < 1302478618 257003 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302478639 8345 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're available in plain text < 1302478698 374432 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should they be available in ODF or TeX? < 1302478720 805046 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1302478721 188202 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is, all are available in plain ASCII text. It can also probably be included in ODF and TeX, but it isn't formatted as well as it could be. < 1302478728 242884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ? < 1302478737 678510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes what < 1302478744 540526 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I expect you to infer the question I am answering < 1302478755 984646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I expect your mom to infer the question I am answering < 1302478759 207918 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Some people probably use ODF (the main GPL license is available under ODF), and they should be available in Plain TeX too, including for literate programming. < 1302478769 818895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Or in other words, no u < 1302478782 557808 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not use ODF myself, but probably some people will) < 1302478942 777729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, gmp is totally worthless. < 1302479117 382942 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1302479157 121974 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302479216 445810 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :WHARRGARBL < 1302479228 358717 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Client Quit < 1302479235 265063 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1302479281 336128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other thing I would like to have from them, is not only the Plain TeX format of licenses but also the license logos with METAFONT. < 1302479303 720266 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric