←2011-04-18 2011-04-19 2011-04-20→ ↑2011 ↑all
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00:16:23 * Sgeo_ is looking at the Uplink code
00:16:59 <Sgeo_> Apparently, a certain gateway has anonymity
00:22:18 * Sgeo_ determines that Demo vs Nondemo makes a difference to the compiled binary
00:22:20 * Sgeo_ saddens
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01:33:30 <Gregor> "Support for all forms of whitespace in ECMA-262 7.2: Just like it says in the topic. Although I needed BOM in particular, support for the Ogham space mark will greatly improve compatibility with ancient Irish esotericist JavaScript programmers."
01:38:39 <pikhq> Hah.
01:50:16 <Sgeo_> Seizure is not the only potential consequence of getting caught
01:53:17 <pikhq> Sgeo_: Caught in the act of what, pray tell?
01:53:28 <Sgeo_> Hacking (in Uplink)
02:06:45 <pikhq> 成程。
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02:11:43 <pikhq> Hellote, oerjan, lament.
02:11:57 <oerjan> hi
02:15:09 <pikhq> I am convinced that Japanese bands are in a competition for "weirdest name".
02:16:03 <pikhq> "Sakanaction", "the pillows", "B'z", "Bump of Chicken"...
02:16:16 <pikhq> So far, "Bump of Chicken" is winning.
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02:21:43 <Sgeo_> "The system appears to have more security holes than popular 'Micro software' written in the late 20th century."
02:22:01 <Sgeo_> ^^part of a news item if the Global Criminal Database is hacked repeatedl
02:31:50 <Sgeo_> "Further more, there is no record of which real person uses which username."
02:31:52 <Sgeo_> LIES
02:38:09 <coppro> DAMN YOU COMBINATORICS
02:38:12 <coppro> CURSE YOU FOR ALL ETERNITY
02:38:37 <coppro> also, combinatorics is friggin' awesome
03:00:16 <Sgeo_> From some guide:
03:00:25 <Sgeo_> " The patch is simply a replacement exe file"
03:00:40 <Sgeo_> Considering that the distinction between demo/full is in the exe...
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03:11:20 <pikhq> Linear algebra would be a much nicer class if it didn't have pointless, tedious computation in it.
03:12:41 <pikhq> Not to mention it could have actually useful stuff in it. "Compress this image." :P
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03:18:38 <TeruFSX> wow, plenty of people here
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03:21:15 <pikhq> There usually are.
03:23:09 <TeruFSX> I've never been here before, so it's a bit of a pleasant surprise.
03:23:32 <pikhq> Mmm.
03:23:53 <Sgeo_> Do you know what this place is/
03:24:04 <Sgeo_> Sometimes we get people thinking it's something that it's not.
03:24:24 <pikhq> Sgeo_: Aye, there be that chance.
03:26:22 <TeruFSX> What would they think it was? I know where I am, I came here from the wiki.
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03:27:08 <pikhq> We often get people coming in here thinking it's about esotericism.
03:27:15 <pikhq> Rather than esoteric programming.
03:27:37 <TeruFSX> I just noticed the channel title, actually.
03:27:51 <TeruFSX> Yeah, I get it now.
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03:38:06 <pikhq> Seems quite ATM.
03:38:16 <pikhq> Aaah, elliott isn't here. That'd do it.
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03:45:20 <zzo38>
03:47:01 <zzo38> Am I sure?
03:47:13 <pikhq> zzo38: Sure of what?
03:47:41 <zzo38> What it was you were describing.
03:48:07 <pikhq> Ah.
03:48:12 <pikhq> BTW, s/quite/quiet/
03:48:14 <pikhq> XD
03:48:38 <zzo38> OK. Now I know. Thanks.
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04:20:53 <pikhq> It's pretty funny hearing the claim that I can't believe evolution because it's against my religion.
04:21:13 <pikhq> Last I checked, the only thing against my professed religious beliefs would be a belief in a deity.
04:26:13 <zzo38> Well, some people have not even understand what the religion they claim to be, some of what it actually is, so it can confuse that sometimes.
04:27:55 <oerjan> must... resist... urge... to `addquote
04:28:07 <pikhq> zzo38: Actually, more just funny that they presumed I had a religious faith more than anything else.
04:29:28 <pikhq> Of course, many people seem ignorant that atheism implies the following: {}
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04:34:05 <zzo38> Why do you sometimes get someone join, and then changing host and joined again?
04:34:28 <pikhq> zzo38: The mask is set on identifying to nickserv.
04:34:44 <pikhq> He joined and then identified to nickserv.
04:34:59 <pikhq> It seems that his client is sending both commands roughly simultaneously.
04:35:02 <zzo38> Then you should identify first?
04:35:27 <pikhq> Making it a race condition for whether or not he joins and then gets a host mask.
04:35:49 <zzo38> You have to send a password first, before the USER command and then JOIN?
04:36:11 <pikhq> Yeah, it'd be easy enough to fix.
04:36:22 <pikhq> Just saying that this is what his client is doing. :)
04:36:23 <zzo38> That is, you should use the password field in your IRC client to make it do that and also would make it to not display the password on the screen?
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04:37:59 <oerjan> there might be a race condition even if you send the password first - data probably has to be sent back and forth to freenode's services before you get the cloak?
04:38:18 <oerjan> i vaguely recall something about that, anyhow
04:39:03 <pikhq> oerjan: You could set it up to wait for a reply from nickserv with a sufficiently smart client.
04:39:08 <oerjan> and so it might depend on network lag
04:39:35 <oerjan> hm true.
04:39:35 <zzo38> Maybe. I do not use the cloak but I do put the password first and then get "This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>." followed immediately by
04:39:39 <pikhq> Which would actually be necessary to avoid a race condition, actually.
04:39:40 <zzo38> "You are now identified for zzo38."
04:40:00 <oerjan> yeah that last message ought to be enough...
04:40:33 <oerjan> also those messages do seem to show that things take a while to be sorted out
04:40:40 <zzo38> Yes it would seem to me, too. But it sends both messages
04:42:49 <pikhq> My, rum is delicious.
04:44:27 <zzo38> Estimate the number of pages of TeXnicard so far and when it is finished.
04:44:38 <zzo38> Also estimate how many bugs it has.
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04:53:15 <zzo38> Please measure the size of a program in pages.
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05:00:09 <Sgeo_> WTF?
05:00:23 <Sgeo_> This episode of SGU sounds a lot like a DS9 plot
05:01:06 <Sgeo_> Well, similar
05:02:22 <pikhq> o.O
05:02:32 <pikhq> China is sitting on enough reserves to buy New York City.
05:03:27 <pikhq> 10 times over.
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05:31:18 <zzo38> Can you make ASCII tsume shogi notation, can be number of moves, and the letters, uppercase for firstplayer lowercase for second player with 'B' promote to 'C', 'D' promote to 'E', 'F' to 'G', and so on, and then the pieces available to drop
05:34:58 <pikhq> I don't see why not.
05:35:23 <zzo38> And then it can be made into the diagram with kanji, from that.
05:37:30 <pikhq> A function from ASCII notation to a full board would be trivial, so.
05:38:35 <zzo38> I want to make program for tsume shogi. I played tsume shogi game on GameBoy, too.
05:42:44 <zzo38> Have you ever play tsume shogi?
05:47:13 <pikhq> I have not.
05:47:21 <pikhq> Though I have played ordinary shougi.
05:49:56 <zzo38> Do you know tsume shogi?
05:51:17 <lament> tsume just means problems
05:51:26 <pikhq> I know *of* it.
05:51:33 <pikhq> Similar to chess problems, yuh?
05:51:35 <lament> it's not a game
05:51:50 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, similar to chess problems. However, in tsume shogi you must give check on every turn.
05:51:50 <lament> tsumechess :)
05:51:51 <pikhq> lament: 詰め has a *lot* of meanings.
05:51:52 <pikhq> :)
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05:52:14 <zzo38> (Unlike in chess)
05:53:39 <vinh> 8-)
05:53:49 <vinh> sepi....
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05:55:54 <zzo38> What kind of algorithm would I use to implement futile interposition rule?
05:57:57 <coppro> futile interposition rule?
05:58:01 <zzo38> Futile interposition rule is: It is not allowed to block check by dropping a piece that can just be captured to make check again without changing anything else.
05:58:33 <coppro> Run through every other piece and see if it can move there
05:58:52 <coppro> (or perhaps in shogi, run through every attacking square and see if there is a piece there that can attack)
05:59:09 <coppro> then for each piece that could take, see if it delivers check "without changing anything else"
06:00:25 <zzo38> But there is a few complications
06:01:45 <coppro> You must clearly define what constitutes a futile interposition
06:02:00 <coppro> pikhq: duh
06:02:18 <coppro> pikhq: china is rich thanks to your government's incompetence
06:03:00 <coppro> idea: let's cut taxes and increase war spending
06:03:03 <coppro> it's guaranteed to work
06:03:22 <zzo38> Look at this one: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_13/futile.png
06:04:01 <zzo38> Also the bottom of this webpage: http://www.shogi.net/nexus/ladder/help.html
06:04:13 <zzo38> See, there is a trick.
06:04:44 <coppro> I cannot read shogi positions
06:04:50 <coppro> I just read up the futile interposition rule
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06:10:34 <zzo38> Notice I posted the GameBoy tsume shogi. Level 1. 1 move. You can move a dragon king causing discovered check by the angle mover in the corner. Now, a piece can be dropped, will be pinned You have to move to the right place to recapture and win (moving to the right pins the other piece too), and that silver general is not in the promotion zone.
06:15:16 <pikhq> coppro: Problem is too little income from taxes? CUT TAXES! INCREASE WAR SPENDING!
06:15:34 <pikhq> coppro: Problem is too bad of an economy? CUT TAXES! INCREASE WAR SPENDING!
06:15:44 <pikhq> coppro: Everything going just fine? CUT TAXES! INCREASE WAR SPENDING!
06:16:35 <pikhq> coppro: Anyways, shougi is pretty easy. It's like chess, but Japanese. :P
06:17:06 <pikhq> ... Okay, so the brush-stroke
06:17:14 <pikhq> That was supposed to be C-k, not C-j.
06:17:49 <zzo38> What about brush-stroke?
06:18:04 <pikhq> So the brush-stroke font thing doesn't help much.
06:18:10 <pikhq> It's a bit hard to read the characters.
06:18:23 <pikhq> Especially on a low-resolution display.
06:19:01 <zzo38> Yes especially the promoted side is difficult.
06:20:04 <pikhq> Particularly if you're not accustomed to Chinese characters.
06:20:12 <zzo38> Still, they are features of Shogi And Xiangqi I like that Chess does not have, which is the flat pieces. The flat pieces is better way in my opinion.
06:20:52 <pikhq> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Shogi_ryuma.png This does *not* look like 龍馬 to most people. :P
06:22:29 <zzo38> Yes you are correct, the promoted side are written more messy than the unpromoted side, which makes it look unlike it. Usually diagrams, though, use the nonmessy symbols which makes it much easier.
06:22:50 <zzo38> However, GameBoy tsumeshogi has low resolution, which makes it hard to see.
06:23:13 <pikhq> It's using cursive script.
06:23:44 <pikhq> Which is generally hard for even native speakers of a Chinese-character-using-language to read.
06:24:10 <pikhq> (hence why it's only used in a few contexts, largely for artistic effect)
06:28:10 <zzo38> Even English cursive is sometimes written messy; that is, if they are a messy writer, it will be.
06:29:28 <pikhq> Except most English speakers can understand cursive. :P
06:31:07 <pikhq> The glyphs are with little *apparent* connection to the regular script form.
06:31:43 <zzo38> Yes, but sometimes it is very messy and I cannot understand. This happens when they are very messy writers. Sometimes even noncursive is somewhat difficult if they are very messy writers, though.
06:32:04 <pikhq> English cursive is a bit more analogous to Chinese character semicursive script.
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06:32:50 <zzo38> Yes, I think so.
06:41:57 <zzo38> At least, shogi pieces have very commonly the same in different sets, and diagrams usually use noncursive, which means it is less difficult to understand. But still it is the good reason to not use cursive, generally. Shogi can also be made with noncursive and it is also easy to understand.
06:42:39 <zzo38> I have a shogi set but it isn't very good because board is of paper.
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07:23:20 <Ilari> Biggest RIR-level IPv6 allocations in the world: 1x/16, 2x/19, 6x/20, 4x/21, 21x/22. Those all are LIRs or some super-large ISPs.
07:29:45 <Ilari> Wow, together those 34 blocks are 92% of all RIR-allocated IPv6 address space.
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16:02:01 <Vorpal> <Ilari> Wow, together those 34 blocks are 92% of all RIR-allocated IPv6 address space. <-- so that means things are really speeding up?
16:02:21 <Vorpal> Ilari, I predict ipv6 exhaustion in a handful of years (20-30)
16:02:30 <Vorpal> due to allocating too large blocks for routing purposes
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16:21:53 <Ilari> Large blocks are easy to route, it is the small ones that are harder.
16:29:23 <Ilari> APNIC (8x/32+/48 IPv6): 6x1k to Australia, 1k+/32 to China, 1k+/32 to Fiji, 1k+/32 to Hong Kong, 1k+/48 to India, 1k+3x/32 to Japan, 1k to Sri Lanka, /32 to New Zealand. 1k+/32 to Singapore, 2x1k to Thailand, 2+1k to Vietnam.
16:30:10 <Vorpal> Ilari, I know
16:30:22 <Vorpal> Ilari, but too large allocations and we will run out of ipv6 too
16:31:06 <Ilari> How many /48s in a /20?
16:31:46 <Ilari> And there are ~130 000 /20s in current global unicast space.
16:34:53 <Ilari> Well, the point is, even if IPv6 address allocation pracices aren't exactly efficient, there's still metrick shitton of address space (it grows exponentially as more bits are available).
16:40:53 -!- elliott has joined.
16:41:34 <elliott> glagolitic capital letter spidery ha
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16:46:20 <elliott> 04:20:53: <pikhq> It's pretty funny hearing the claim that I can't believe evolution because it's against my religion.
16:46:20 <elliott> 04:21:13: <pikhq> Last I checked, the only thing against my professed religious beliefs would be a belief in a deity.
16:46:29 <elliott> That sort of only works if they know you're atheist :P
16:46:42 <Zwaarddijk> uhm
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16:46:52 <Zwaarddijk> is there a reason to assume some other religious beliefs?
16:47:05 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: pikhq was a Christian until very recently.
16:47:08 <Zwaarddijk> ah, k.
16:47:09 <elliott> OK, for really weak values of Christian.
16:47:44 <elliott> 04:29:28: <pikhq> Of course, many people seem ignorant that atheism implies the following: {}
16:47:44 <elliott> Literally, sure, but something like one hundred percent of people identifying as atheists will base it (or at least pretend to base it) on some form of rationalism
16:48:22 <elliott> 05:02:32: <pikhq> China is sitting on enough reserves to buy New York City.
16:48:22 <elliott> best idea
16:48:23 <Zwaarddijk> there are a lot that only pretend to base it on rationalism though
16:48:40 <Zwaarddijk> and wouldn't recognize rationalism if it was explained to them
16:48:42 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: My parenthical and "some form of" were by no means unintentional :P
16:49:17 <elliott> For instance, at RationalWiki, the term "rational" means "what most liberals with a Ph.D. in a science believe".
16:49:50 <Zwaarddijk> interesting
16:50:06 <Zwaarddijk> I've run into some rather nasty idiots on rationalskepticism.org
16:50:17 <Zwaarddijk> that think they're the rationalest people ever
16:50:36 <oerjan> elliott: like copy/paste from life of brian...
16:50:50 <elliott> At /r/atheism, "rationalism" is pronounced "atheism" and means "mocking the most idiotic Christians".
16:51:09 <Zwaarddijk> yes
16:56:25 <cheater_> pikhq is confused
16:56:30 <cheater_> atheism implies there is no god
16:56:42 <cheater_> he's trying to be an agnostic
16:56:54 <enki-[quit]> people who think atheism is rational tend to think that logical positivism is an attribute of the universe, not an attribute of an epistemological model that a couple popular enlightenment-era thinkers had a hard-on for
16:57:17 <elliott> atheism _is_ rational.
16:57:24 <Zwaarddijk> the most interesting atheists, imho
16:57:27 <elliott> but atheism doesn't imply rationality.
16:57:27 <enki-[quit]> nonsense.
16:57:31 <elliott> enki-[quit]: not nonsense.
16:57:36 <Zwaarddijk> I agree with elliott
16:57:54 <Zwaarddijk> some people may be right by accident
16:58:03 <enki-[quit]> if you have no evidence for or against something's existence, then you have no evidence for or against it. there is no reasonable 'default' belief.
16:58:10 <elliott> enki-[quit]: what is your position on Russell's Teapot?
16:58:15 <elliott> the Invisible Pink Unicorn?
16:58:20 <elliott> come on, these are ancient
16:58:22 <elliott> I'm not even trying
16:58:45 <enki-[quit]> elliott: all of those are examples of things with indeterminate existence, not with existence that is known to be false.
16:58:47 <Zwaarddijk> most people that believe in a God of some kind also believe in one that is logically contradictory
16:58:51 <elliott> also, you just said you think probability theory is flat out wrong.
16:58:52 <elliott> so lol
16:59:00 <elliott> enki-[quit]: atheism is not the statement "god is known to not exist"
16:59:02 <enki-[quit]> so while the odds are extremely low, they are not zero
16:59:11 <elliott> it is the statement "god is so unlikely to exist that it is irrelevant to consider the possibility of its existence"
16:59:17 <elliott> a-theism. not a theist.
16:59:21 <Zwaarddijk> elliott: for any number of proposed gods, the likelihood is zero
16:59:37 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: because of self-contradiction? that's true
16:59:40 <Zwaarddijk> yes.
16:59:42 <elliott> but there are subsets of Christianity that are not self-contradicting
16:59:47 <elliott> just so, so incredibly unlikely
16:59:51 <Zwaarddijk> of course
17:00:00 <Zwaarddijk> but we can still shave off a huge bunch of proposed gods
17:00:05 <enki-[quit]> elliott: that's not how atheists tend to phrase it. i don't have a problem with non-belief. i have a problem with conflating non-belief with belief in the negation
17:00:12 <elliott> enki-[quit]: strawman
17:00:21 <elliott> atheism is stronger than not-belief
17:00:39 <elliott> atheism is the position that the likelihood of any god existing is so low that it can be discounted
17:00:56 <elliott> there are people who self-identify as atheists and say this means that "logic disproves god" or wahtever
17:01:01 <elliott> but there is a name for these people, a very old name
17:01:02 <elliott> "idiots"
17:01:29 <enki-[quit]> i neither believe that russel's teapot exists nor that russel's teapot does not exist. if i could quantify how much it would surprise me if russel's teapot existed, that number would be large.
17:01:58 <elliott> say Russell's Teapot tortures all those who drink tea
17:02:04 <elliott> you would continue living as if it did not exist
17:02:24 <elliott> you have not shown that atheism is irrational, only that a very stupid form of "atheism" is.
17:02:30 <elliott> this is nothing new
17:02:32 <Zwaarddijk> if Russel's teapot existed, I'd be greatly surprised
17:02:41 <enki-[quit]> elliott: if someone believes that the likelyhood of god existing is infinitesimally small but nonzero, they are agnostics, if we are going to be precise.
17:02:54 <elliott> enki-[quit]: ah, you misspelled a word there
17:02:54 <Zwaarddijk> enki-[quit]: no, you're using some weird definitions here
17:02:57 <elliott> replace "if we are going to be precise"
17:02:58 <elliott> with
17:03:04 <elliott> "if we ignore what the words actually mean, and just bullshit out way through"
17:03:05 <elliott> our
17:03:21 <elliott> an "agnostic", by common meaning, is someone who gives undue weight to the hypothesis of god
17:03:28 <elliott> by being unreasonably and irrationally on-the-fence about it
17:03:36 <elliott> most of them do this because they have no idea what atheism means.
17:03:45 <enki-[quit]> elliott: i'm not really sure where you are getting your personal definition of atheism. it's very strange. i've heard a few other people quote it, when i've had this discussion before.
17:03:46 <elliott> or because they're just idiots
17:04:02 <enki-[quit]> feh
17:04:05 <elliott> enki-[quit]: a few other people quote my "personal" definition of atheism?
17:04:10 <elliott> so maybe it... isn't... personal?
17:04:28 <enki-[quit]> elliott: maybe you all read the same book by an author who explained it poorly?
17:04:33 <elliott> lol
17:04:38 <elliott> you're full of shit.
17:05:10 <Zwaarddijk> I concur.
17:05:57 <elliott> i keep talking to all these people who say a zebra is like a horse but with black and white straps and shit
17:06:11 <elliott> but i know for a fact that a zebra is a type of bedsheet
17:06:23 <elliott> i think they all read "Hey, Zebras Are Actually Kinda like Horses" by Dr. Idiot McMormon
17:06:29 <enki-[quit]> i'm trying to make a distinction between belief in a thing's nonexistence and non-belief in a thing's existence, because the popularity of logical positivism has make a lot of people conflate the two. this tends to come up more often in discussions about atheism, but agnosis is not limited to the question of gods -- it's just a convienient situation in which to bring it up.
17:06:52 <elliott> Try "idiot atheism" for the "Gods definitely (p=one, no rounding errors) do not exist".
17:07:44 <enki-[quit]> elliott: by defining atheism as agnosticism skewed to one side, it makes no clean distinction.
17:08:00 <elliott> wow, you mean language is designed to be useful and reflect what people actually mean,
17:08:03 <elliott> not to be full of useless absolutes?
17:08:06 <elliott> gosh
17:08:24 <elliott> Philosophy has invented enough terms by itself that I'm sure it can come up with a few more for ridiculous hypotheses :)
17:09:11 <enki-[quit]> i don't care what the probabilities people cite are, so long as they aren't limited to zero and one. it's a pet peeve. agnosis in a general sense refers to the eschewing of extremes of probability in one's mental models, and the association with the atheist-theist debate is making it difficult to talk about agnosis outside of that context
17:09:44 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> Literally, sure, but something like one hundred percent of people identifying as atheists will base it (or at least pretend to base it) on some form of rationalism
17:09:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Erm, no?
17:09:53 <Phantom_Hoover> New age hippies of certain flavour?
17:09:57 <Phantom_Hoover> *flavours
17:09:59 <enki-[quit]> we have more than enough people who are far too sure of themselves. we don't need otherwise reasonable people to start being too sure of themselves too
17:10:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: well, let's be fair, "atheism" in common use has the even more general meaning of "areligion...ism".
17:10:47 <elliott> enki-[quit]: ok, there's the probability I cite for any God that more than five people have described as "the Christian God": 0. if you want a precise value, i can sit here pressing the 0 key for about an hour, and then there'll be some digits after that
17:10:53 <enki-[quit]> i have other problems with what you call 'idiot atheists' -- for instance, their abrahamocentrism -- but that's an unrelated issue.
17:11:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Still, homeopaths are hardly universally religious.
17:11:03 <elliott> abrahamocentrism is a wonderful word
17:11:08 <elliott> rolls of the tongue
17:11:16 <elliott> abrahamocentrismabahramocentristabrahamocentrbaicbramcioba
17:12:49 <enki-[quit]> i have yet to see one of the big-name atheists talk about a hypothetical god other than the god of abraham. this isn't because abrahamic religions are dominant, because they aren't. they are dominant in those parts of western europe and the americas that are not yet dominantly atheistic, agnostic, or areligious
17:13:05 <enki-[quit]> (i make a distinction between those three terms)
17:13:39 <elliott> hmm, The God Delusion was a pretty generic argument, but "big-name atheists" are irrelevant IMO
17:13:55 <enki-[quit]> to the question of 'is there a god', the respective answers are: no, maybe, and fish
17:14:10 <elliott> most of them are surely pretty smart people, but most of the new trend of atheist books are fluff
17:14:13 <Phantom_Hoover> <enki-[quit]> i have yet to see one of the big-name atheists talk about a hypothetical god other than the god of abraham. this isn't because abrahamic religions are dominant, because they aren't. they are dominant in those parts of western europe and the americas that are not yet dominantly atheistic, agnostic, or areligious
17:14:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Get a demographic survey before making such claims.
17:16:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Christianity and Islam total 3.5 billion adherants, according to WP at least.
17:16:13 <enki-[quit]> elliott: unfortunately, intelligence in other areas appears to have no correlation with ability to counter one's own confirmation bias. i've seen pretty smart people get sucked into obscure religious sects and waste their skills on elaborate attempts at proving the earth is flat mathematically
17:16:39 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm curious as to how you arrived at the conclusion that they are not 'dominant'.
17:16:39 <elliott> enki-[quit]: True. Evolutionary biologists are pretty well-guarded against creationism, though.
17:16:57 <elliott> (I know of exactly one creationist evolutionary biologist, and he's a Discovery Institute shill.)
17:17:29 <enki-[quit]> they are clearly capable of formulating a proof, and working one out. but, they have taken it as axiomatic that the earth is flat and then continue on from there, discarding results that don't confirm their axioms
17:17:47 <enki-[quit]> Phantom_Hoover: what are the two most populous nation-states on earth?
17:18:29 <enki-[quit]> (the answer is china and india. you shouldn't have had to look that up. shame on you)
17:18:46 <elliott> enki-[quit]: dude
17:18:48 <elliott> this is IRC
17:19:00 <elliott> yelling at someone when they don't respond instantly is moronic
17:19:13 <elliott> PH rarely does to anyone because, y'know, not everyone has the IRC window focussed all the time
17:19:37 <Phantom_Hoover> enki-[quit], well?
17:19:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:19:40 <elliott> see?
17:19:43 <elliott> his Wi-Fi drops all the time.
17:19:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:19:45 <enki-[quit]> *shrug*
17:19:45 <Phantom_Hoover> 17:17:47: <enki-[quit]> Phantom_Hoover: what are the two most populous nation-states on earth?
17:19:46 <Phantom_Hoover> 17:18:29: <enki-[quit]> (the answer is china and india. you shouldn't have had to look that up. shame on you)
17:19:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Damn WiFi.
17:20:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Making me miss people making facile arguments and act entitled to an immediate answer.
17:20:50 <enki-[quit]> look at the religious makeup of china and india. look at the religious makeup of europe, and keep in mind that numbers for lutheranism are skewed upwards in scandanavia.
17:21:12 <Phantom_Hoover> enki-[quit], like I said, the lower bound from WP's figures for religious adherence to Christianity and Islam is 3.5 billion.
17:21:32 <Phantom_Hoover> That's over half of the world population, unless it exceeded 7 billion and I didn't notice.
17:21:48 <enki-[quit]> *shrug*
17:22:06 <elliott> *shrug*: the universal counterargument.
17:22:48 <enki-[quit]> add judaism and what percentage would you reckon that is?
17:23:23 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a non-entity as far as proportions are concerned.
17:23:46 <elliott> Nentity.
17:23:48 <Phantom_Hoover> 18 million at most according to the page.
17:24:16 <elliott> they could start their own nation
17:24:16 <elliott> wait
17:24:35 <enki-[quit]> so, these people are addressing the half of the world that they have the least likelyhood of convincing, and ignoring the rest?
17:25:33 <elliott> enki-[quit]: most people don't address the entire world
17:25:36 <elliott> for instance, they speak in English
17:25:38 <elliott> this also limits their market
17:25:38 <Phantom_Hoover> The rest is considerably more fragmented, so you can't make generalised arguments.
17:25:39 <elliott> I WONDER WHY
17:26:00 <elliott> Supported Operating Systems
17:26:00 <elliott> Microsoft Windows 98/SE/ME/2000/XP/Vista/7
17:26:00 <elliott> Mac OS X 10.x
17:26:00 <elliott> Linux 2.4x
17:26:01 <elliott> damn
17:26:05 <elliott> I'll have to downgrade my kernel
17:26:07 <elliott> for this external hard drive
17:26:09 <elliott> :D
17:26:53 <Phantom_Hoover> BtW, India and China combined are only slightly over a third of the world's population, not the crushing majority you seem to think they are.
17:27:22 <olsner> I am 100% of the population of my world
17:27:41 <elliott> olsner: deep, man.
17:27:44 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, people living on the moon don't count.
17:27:47 <elliott> THE DEEPEST
17:27:49 <Vorpal> <elliott> I'll have to downgrade my kernel
17:27:50 <Vorpal> <elliott> for this external hard drive
17:27:51 <Vorpal> I doubt it
17:27:51 <oerjan> solipsists unite!
17:27:55 <elliott> Vorpal: Whoosh
17:28:01 <Vorpal> elliott, where was it from?
17:28:06 <elliott> scan.co.uk
17:28:09 <elliott> oerjan: let me bring up for the seventeenth time
17:28:11 <Phantom_Hoover> (I assume this is where you live because you're Swedish and hence must live somewhere with huge seasonal temperature variations.)
17:28:12 <elliott> oerjan: solipsist missionaries
17:28:14 <elliott> would be the best thing ever
17:28:15 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah I mean what product
17:28:35 <elliott> Vorpal: let me find the window :D
17:28:49 <elliott> http://www.scan.co.uk/products/320gb-intenso-6002510-super-slim-external-25-hdd-usb-20-5400-rpm-8mb-cache-bus-powered-black
17:28:51 <oerjan> elliott: hey it _could_ make sense... they're tired of their illusion spreading falsehoods...
17:29:02 <elliott> I'm just trying to find the cheapest external hard drive that's over two-hundred-and-fifty gigs.
17:29:17 <elliott> oerjan: "What I'm saying is: You are the only person who exists. Just you."
17:29:22 <elliott> oerjan: "I'm not real. I'm a figment of your imagination."
17:29:26 <oerjan> ...ah.
17:29:42 <elliott> oerjan: Response: "So are... you a solipsist?"
17:29:49 <elliott> "Absolutely. You're just a figment of my imagination."
17:30:00 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: sweden => cold => THE MOON?
17:30:18 <elliott> olsner: good album title
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17:33:19 <Phantom_Hoover> <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: sweden => cold => THE MOON?
17:34:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, yes, but it also gets incredibly hot on the moon during the (12-day-long) day, and I hear summers in Sweden are very warm.
17:34:22 <Zwaarddijk> elliott: I tihnk what's needed to get the previous debate working is a good grasp of what a language game is.
17:34:24 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, thus clearly Egypt is the moon
17:34:25 <Vorpal> as weell
17:34:35 <Zwaarddijk> most people, alas, don't have that
17:34:53 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, anyway, Norway is pretty much the same as Sweden there
17:34:59 <Phantom_Hoover> (I live on Cruithne, since I have a great affinity for things with unpronounceable Irish names.)
17:36:00 <elliott> Well, it explains your name, Adhamhnáin McCool
17:36:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
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17:36:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
17:36:05 <elliott> WHOOPS
17:36:25 <elliott> (Please tell me your name is actually accented like that.)
17:36:40 <Phantom_Hoover> NO COMMENT
17:36:48 <elliott> AWESOME
17:37:10 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO PROOUNCE YOUR FIRST NAME
17:37:15 <elliott> PROOUNCINATION
17:37:18 <Phantom_Hoover> NO
17:37:24 <Phantom_Hoover> IT IS A SECRET
17:37:33 <olsner> elliott: isn't it just "Phantom"?
17:37:42 <Phantom_Hoover> NO COMMENT
17:37:48 <elliott> olsner: Adhamhnáin McCool, pronounced "Phantom Hoover"
17:37:55 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I WILL MISPRONOUNCE IT UNLESS YOU TEACH ME
17:38:03 <Phantom_Hoover> DO YOUR WORST
17:38:09 <elliott> Well, McCool has the oo from Hoover, so it sounds kind of similar.
17:38:19 <elliott> And if you really muffle Adhamhnáin, it sounds like Phantom pronounced really stuttery.
17:38:21 <elliott> SO YES I AGREE
17:39:02 <elliott> HMMM
17:39:09 <elliott> COMPARED TO USB TWO
17:39:10 <elliott> Vorpal: ?
17:39:22 <elliott> WAIT
17:39:22 <Vorpal> ?
17:39:24 <Vorpal> what?
17:39:29 <elliott> there are no two-hundred-anf-fifty-gig sd cards
17:39:29 * oerjan notes that irish pronunciation is just weird enough that Adhamhnáin _might_ have been pronounced like phantom
17:39:30 <elliott> NEVER MIND
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17:39:39 <elliott> Vorpal: Just dreading copying tens of tens of gigabytes over USB Two :)
17:39:54 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm watching last episode of Cosmos. Got any actual message?
17:40:01 <olsner> tens of tens!? that's like HUNDREDS
17:40:02 <elliott> Vorpal: I ASKED A QUESTION
17:40:04 <elliott> BUT THEN RETRACTED IT
17:40:12 <elliott> Vorpal: BTW CARL SAGAN DIES AT THE END
17:40:14 <elliott> SPOILER
17:40:22 <elliott> (HE WAS THE COSMOS ALL ALONG)
17:40:26 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway SD card would depend on the card and the reader
17:40:35 <Vorpal> elliott, :P
17:41:09 <oerjan> choking on an apple pie
17:41:12 <elliott> Actually I could probably get away with only copying a fraction of things.
17:41:17 <elliott> OS X home folder, and this home folder.
17:41:35 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway, why does the trasfer speed matter? You can easily let it run while doing other stuff. This is what we who work in the area of computers call "multi-tasking"
17:41:46 <elliott> Vorpal: Yes but sloooow.
17:41:58 <Vorpal> elliott, DMA. It doesn't much slow down what else you do
17:42:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
17:42:40 <elliott> Vorpal: I mean slow in general.
17:43:06 <elliott> Like, what's USB Two's theroretical maximum?
17:43:13 <Vorpal> elliott, yes but for your use case, why does it matter much
17:43:24 <elliott> A high-speed (USB 2.0) rate of 480 Mbit/s (~57 MB/s) was introduced in 2001. All hi-speed devices are capable of falling back to full-bandwidth operation if necessary; they are backward compatible. Connectors are identical.
17:43:31 <fizzie> 480 M... right.
17:43:31 <elliott> OK, well that's bullshit, there's no way I'd get anywhere near that.
17:43:51 <elliott> Vorpal: Because I'd like to send it back sooner rather than later?
17:43:57 <elliott> Vorpal: And because I have to be there to reinstall when it finishes.
17:44:01 <elliott> And doing it overnight would be annoying.
17:44:05 <Vorpal> elliott, well what will it take? A couple of hours?
17:44:11 <elliott> And if I need to reboot, I'm fucked.
17:44:17 <Vorpal> elliott, why is that
17:44:17 <elliott> At least, I need to restart X all the time, and can't use the console.
17:44:19 <elliott> I could change my password.
17:44:21 <Vorpal> elliott, you could easily use rsync
17:44:24 <Vorpal> to do the backup
17:44:29 <elliott> Vorpal: True, but still.
17:44:35 <elliott> I could do it from the console, but STILL
17:44:46 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway why would you need to reboot?
17:44:56 <Vorpal> 19:44:13 up 17 days, 5:34, 19 users, load average: 1.14, 1.15, 1.59
17:44:56 <fizzie> SD cards don't tend to saturate USB 2.0 anyway. (SDHC "speed classes" go from 2 up to 10 MB/s == 80 Mbps.)
17:45:22 <fizzie> (For some sort of sustained-write speed, if you trust the manufacturer.)
17:45:46 <elliott> Vorpal: (A) I don't give a shit about your digi-penis[caret]Wuptime. (B) Kernel upgrades, bad hardware support leading to instability, etc.
17:46:00 <Vorpal> elliott, W?
17:46:04 <elliott> (C) At least, I have to restart X sometimes multiple times a day, no matter what window manager, because of bad hardware support.
17:46:07 <elliott> Vorpal: [caret]W.
17:46:10 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving").
17:46:13 <Vorpal> what is the W for?
17:46:14 <olsner> oh my: "What is the difference between git and cvs version control systems? I have been happily using CVS for over 10 years and have been told that GIT is much better."
17:46:25 -!- elliott has joined.
17:46:32 <elliott> (D) I don't know, I can't predict the future.
17:46:57 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway the disk is slower than 480 MBit/s probably
17:46:58 <olsner> otoh, if you've *happily* used CVS for that long, you obviously barely even need version control
17:47:02 <elliott> Vorpal: [caret]W erases the previous word. Lern-to-emacs.
17:47:14 <elliott> Or even just lern[two]shell.
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17:47:28 <Vorpal> elliott, right, I thought it was like your X for !
17:47:39 <elliott> NonsenseXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
17:48:38 <Sgeo_> The following directories were created:
17:48:38 <Sgeo_> %UserProfile%\WINDOWS
17:48:38 <Sgeo_> %UserProfile%\WINDOWS\system
17:48:39 <Sgeo_> WTF?
17:51:12 <Phantom_Hoover> <olsner> oh my: "What is the difference between git and cvs version control systems? I have been happily using CVS for over 10 years and have been told that GIT is much better."
17:51:20 <Phantom_Hoover> A question I have often pondered myself.
17:51:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Although I don't use any VCS, so I only do it in a theoretical way.
17:51:40 <elliott> That is because you have no idea what version control is or how it works :P
17:52:11 <elliott> Hahahahahaha
17:52:14 <elliott> "Consider this to be your dismaying PSA of the day: Apparently, if you're a Kindle owner with a magazine subscription, and you decide to stop subscribing, the back issues you previously downloaded are also lost—for good."
17:52:22 * elliott checks Engadget to see if it's actually true
17:52:31 <elliott> NO POST MUST BE FALSE
17:53:55 <olsner> old news - if you buy a book and they later stop selling it: bam! no book for you
17:54:33 <olsner> applies for all these e-book readers that are integrated into online thingies: the only safe way to use them is for pirated books
17:55:19 <elliott> olsner: Well, the only sensible thing to do when moving to a medium with the immense power of infinite copying is... to restrict copying and viewing even further.
17:55:36 <elliott> Not only is water not wet, it's a good towel, dammit.
17:58:42 <fizzie> Good towel: http://www.shopperhive.co.uk/compare/natural-collection-santens-bamboo-and-cotton-shower-towel-prices
17:59:00 <elliott> I... er...
17:59:13 <fizzie> What! It's a good towel.
17:59:16 <fizzie> Yes.
17:59:21 <elliott> OK
17:59:23 <elliott> I WILL BUY THEM
17:59:26 <elliott> CLEARLY
17:59:29 <elliott> IF THEY ARE SO GOOD AT TOWELING
17:59:31 <fizzie> Currently not available, please try again later!
17:59:56 <fizzie> There were those towels in a hotel in Belgium, that's all I know.
18:00:11 <fizzie> You could say the made an impression!
18:00:15 <elliott> Yes, when I'm in Belgian hotels, the thing I think about most is the quality of the towels.
18:00:18 <fizzie> s/the/they/
18:00:24 <elliott> fizzie: Do Finns have towels?
18:00:28 <elliott> I guess if they don't that would explain int.
18:00:29 <elliott> it.
18:00:43 <elliott> "Oh, I'm wet. Guess I'll go to the sauna and MELT THE WETNESS"
18:00:45 <fizzie> No, we just dry ourself to some tree-bark.
18:01:17 <elliott> Nothing like a good tree-barking after you jump into ice-cold water after you come out of the sauna.
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18:28:22 <elliott> <Younder> 'data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a ' seems like awkward way of defining generalized boolean. Well that is the prose for static typing I guess.
18:28:23 <elliott> [...]
18:28:24 <elliott> <Younder> dmwit, Like in Lisp. All types are a subtype of t except nil which is a subtype of null.
18:28:26 <elliott> LISP WEENIE
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18:35:15 <elliott> <crystal-cola> the poeple in #python nput me off of python
18:35:19 <elliott> <crystal-cola> annoyed
18:35:22 <elliott> <crystal-cola> this channel sucks
18:35:25 <elliott> [more of that in hash-haskell]
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18:35:30 <elliott> <crystal-cola> people are naturally horrible to each other
18:35:32 <elliott> then in haskell-blah:
18:35:39 <elliott> <Veinor> one of the guys in #python-ops says crystal-cola has just been spamming python-ops with
18:35:39 <elliott> <Veinor> 'unban me'
18:35:39 <elliott> <elliott> lol
18:35:39 <elliott> <mauke> it's j-invariant
18:35:46 <elliott> our friend is alive and well :D
18:41:54 <Vorpal> in summary, Cosmos. Is pure awesome.
18:42:03 <elliott> no it's pure cosmos
18:42:03 <elliott> idiot
18:42:08 <elliott> cosmos isn't made out of awesome
18:42:11 <elliott> learn some science fag
18:42:21 <elliott> see i can be as tasteless as i like even when i've slept
18:42:23 <Vorpal> elliott, ... I meant the movies
18:42:34 <elliott> vorpal calls episodes of a tv series movies
18:42:34 <elliott> ;D
18:42:41 <Vorpal> well whatever
18:43:21 <Vorpal> elliott, yes. I never claimed you couldn't be tasteless. I just claimed you do it a lot more when sleep deprived... Though I'm sure you are also capable of temporarily reversing it just to prove a point.
18:43:34 <elliott> your MOM is capable of
18:45:50 <elliott> wow j-invariant is annoying
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19:08:31 <Phantom_Hoover> j-invariant!
19:08:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Wheeee!
19:08:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Best combination of intellect and obnoxiousness ever!
19:08:45 <elliott> Crazier than everXXX
19:09:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You misspelled "insanity".
19:09:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Intellect, obnoxiousness and insanity?
19:09:21 <olsner> I don't remember j-invariant, what did it do?
19:09:35 <elliott> olsner: j-invariant left because it went public that we knew who they were.
19:09:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Really?
19:09:45 <elliott> olsner: whatever-fax-was-called-at-the-time beforehand left because of being banned.
19:09:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Well, it was a pretty ... hectic... day for them.
19:09:53 <elliott> i.e.
19:10:02 <elliott> they were whining in hash-haskell about the pointlessness of all programming waah waah
19:10:03 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought s?he fell out with #haskell.
19:10:08 <elliott> and got temp-banned for not STFUing
19:10:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but they're still in hash-haskell now, and haven't returned here.
19:10:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Something to do with trying to solve the halting problem in limited cases and not communicating it clearly enough to avoid looking like an idiot.
19:11:02 <elliott> No, that was ages ago.
19:11:13 <elliott> As in, before that.
19:11:18 <elliott> Before they got banned.
19:11:38 <elliott> olsner: Anyway, previous-fax left because Phantom_Hoover said they "failed at [Conway's Game of] Life", and they took it rather too literally, spamming pages of "FUCK YOU" at him in-channel.
19:11:46 <elliott> Note insanity.
19:12:06 <olsner> sounds unproductive
19:12:31 <elliott> By left, I mean got banned and didn't return post-unban.
19:13:07 <Phantom_Hoover> To be fair, soupdragon's point which lead to that remark was an interesting one I've considered before, but I couldn't resist the pun.
19:14:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god.
19:14:45 <Phantom_Hoover> There is a stage version of Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of the War of the Worlds.
19:14:50 <elliott> Oh god
19:15:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh my god
19:15:56 <Phantom_Hoover> there is a giant head
19:16:01 <elliott> wat
19:16:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i... words fail me
19:16:07 <Phantom_Hoover> this is too awesome
19:17:00 <Phantom_Hoover> and cgi
19:17:03 <Phantom_Hoover> ^_^
19:17:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit dinner intrudes upon my life yet again.
19:17:18 <elliott> DAMN YOU, DINNER
19:17:56 <elliott> NEED HAH
19:17:58 <elliott> HASH
19:18:00 <elliott> CTOHORPE
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19:28:26 <Phantom_Hoover> #
19:28:47 <Phantom_Hoover> OMG
19:28:53 <Phantom_Hoover> The singer looks like an accountant.
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19:39:37 <elliott> bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh
19:39:44 <elliott> Haskell's typeclass system is far too weak for this
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19:47:49 * Phantom_Hoover installs Star Control 2
19:48:05 <elliott> MOAR LIKE STAR CRAFT TWO
19:48:26 <Phantom_Hoover> NO
19:48:29 <Vorpal> elliott, why don't you use the on screen keyboard btw?
19:48:31 <Phantom_Hoover> IT IS NOT FREE
19:48:34 <Phantom_Hoover> WITH A CAPITAL F
19:48:49 <elliott> Vorpal: TO OMUCH WORK
19:48:59 <Vorpal> .... why
19:49:20 <Vorpal> elliott, surely it can be found in your launcher menu, gnome, kde or whatever you use?
19:49:23 <Vorpal> ;P
19:50:12 <elliott> xvkbd can't, actually.
19:50:13 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that game you mentioned... How realistic are the physics?
19:50:17 <Vorpal> elliott, oh?
19:50:20 <Vorpal> elliott, weirc
19:50:21 <Vorpal> weird*
19:50:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, the combat is a deliberate clone of the original Spacewars'.
19:50:59 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, hm. I don't remember what sort of physics it has
19:51:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Asteroids with gravity towards a central point.
19:52:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Jesus the voice files are huge.
19:52:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: IT SHOULD IMITATE ASTEROIDS II INSTEAD
19:52:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Also: since when did I have only 12GB of free space on my home partition.
19:53:04 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: BTW the Asteroids II bullets totally need to be fully-fledged objects.
19:53:05 <elliott> Why?
19:53:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, I had that planned.
19:53:32 <elliott> I foresee the top-ranking Asteroids II players spending whole matches in severe nested time dilation and insane gravity.
19:53:48 <elliott> Where it becomes a non-realtime strategy game :P
19:54:08 <Zwaarddijk> it would be pretty awesome to manage to have time dilation in some game
19:54:13 <Phantom_Hoover> My planned hierarchy for masses basically starts from generic massive body with inertia but not gravity.
19:54:17 <Zwaarddijk> in a way that still maintains real-time strategy stuff
19:54:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Zwaarddijk, you mean relativistic?
19:54:25 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: That's what's planned in Asteroids II, though your camera is always outside the dilation.
19:54:33 <Zwaarddijk> Phantom_Hoover: yeah
19:54:36 <elliott> So you just see everything in your bubble going slowly, and move slowly.
19:54:38 <Zwaarddijk> elliott: ah, well, that works
19:54:50 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: An expected strategy is to make a time dilation bubble around your opponent, then circle around it firing bullets.
19:54:53 <Phantom_Hoover> It's kinda-sorta possible, but only assuming infinite processor speed or breakdown at edge cases.
19:54:55 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, no.
19:55:05 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: Sure, the bullets will go slowly inside, but you can fire them at such speed that your opponent is pretty helpless.
19:55:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Asteroids II is Newtonian with embellishments.
19:55:08 <Zwaarddijk> I presume breakdown at edge cases is what you have to go for
19:55:20 <Zwaarddijk> is there a demo of it already?
19:55:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: We can handle "dilation" (not real dilation) as a special-case.
19:55:26 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: Heck no X-D
19:55:26 <Zwaarddijk> like, proof-of-concept video or such?
19:55:39 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: Phantom_Hoover has a tech demo which proves that two-dimensional Newtonian works properly with gravity.
19:55:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Zwaarddijk, i.e. you can't be going at 0.99999999999999c and have a billion years of stuff happen in a second.
19:55:54 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: It is some Lisp code that prints out a bunch of tuples quickly.
19:55:55 <Zwaarddijk> Phantom_Hoover: obviously not
19:56:01 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: (oklopol said it wouldn't work.)
19:56:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Well, yeah, it'd be fixed in Asteroids II.
19:56:25 <elliott> Once you're going slow enough that nothing will move for a year, you're pretty much done :P
19:56:31 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, TbH, I'm not strictly speaking emulating Newtonian gravity in that sim.
19:56:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but it's two-dimensional gravity.
19:56:43 <elliott> And the rest is Newtonian.
19:56:48 <elliott> And that's close enough for a game.
19:56:59 <elliott> How did your restructure go, btw? Not even started yet? :P
19:57:05 <Zwaarddijk> I guess what really will ruin it though
19:57:17 <Zwaarddijk> is that you're going to end up having a privileged frame
19:57:25 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: Yes we are, because it's a game :)
19:57:30 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: A multiplayer game.
19:58:00 <elliott> Zwaarddijk: Anyway, the main thing is the gravity and the Newtonianness.
19:58:00 <Zwaarddijk> imagine not having a privileged frame
19:58:10 <elliott> Yes, that would be cool, but would require dilating the user and their computer.
19:58:10 <Zwaarddijk> then you'd run into greatly weird stuff
19:58:14 <Zwaarddijk> yes.
19:58:24 <Zwaarddijk> sure it's entirely impossible to emulate dilation?
19:58:26 <Zwaarddijk> like
19:58:28 <Zwaarddijk> real dilation
19:58:37 <Zwaarddijk> not just dilation wrt priviliged frame
19:58:39 <elliott> Not multiplayer.
19:58:48 <elliott> For obvious reasons.
19:59:00 <elliott> i.e. everyone else gets to see what you're going to do five seconds in the future.
19:59:31 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> How did your restructure go, btw? Not even started yet? :P
19:59:42 <Phantom_Hoover> No, since I'd like to have a clear picture of the kinds of objects first.
20:00:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You realise OOP is sort of designed to allow extensibility after-the-fact? :P
20:00:25 <elliott> I guess you need the initial hierarchy down, though.
20:00:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, but mainly for conceptual clarity.
20:01:27 <ais523> elliott: something that might amuse you: someone in #nethack was complaining that vi didn't do vikeys properly
20:01:31 <ais523> they were trying to move diagonally
20:01:34 <elliott> haha
20:01:46 <elliott> hey coppro, http://i.imgur.com/m0PSa.jpg
20:02:03 <elliott> (thanks reddit)
20:02:07 <ais523> (of course, it's sort-of unsurprising that Emacs does actually have methods of moving diagonally if required, in certain modes)
20:02:26 <elliott> hmm, does ais523 play Magic the Gathering? I have no idea
20:02:27 <elliott> (I don't)
20:02:35 <ais523> elliott: I used to, I don't any mroe
20:02:39 <elliott> hey ais523, http://i.imgur.com/m0PSa.jpg
20:02:42 <ais523> because they put out two bad expansions in arow
20:03:09 <ais523> hmm
20:03:18 <elliott> apparently that card is worth over six hundred dollars :)
20:03:19 <olsner> elliott: Vorpal probably does
20:03:23 <ais523> there's something silly about a card so rare it's valuable, and so good it's banned from pretty much every tournament
20:03:27 <elliott> olsner: that would require him having friends
20:03:39 <ais523> you'd expect a card so good people aren't allowed to play with it to be not all that useful
20:03:51 <olsner> elliott: isn't there a single-player version? :)
20:03:54 <elliott> :D
20:03:54 <ais523> elliott: well, if it's that expensive, it must be from the limited edition alpha set
20:03:57 <elliott> single-player mtg
20:03:58 <olsner> or maybe you can use them as tarot cards
20:03:59 <elliott> the saddest game
20:04:16 <elliott> ais523: and in beta, it seems xD
20:04:23 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/Black_lotus.jpg
20:04:33 <elliott> that description doesn't look particularly powerful, but i have no idea about mtg or anything
20:04:35 <ais523> and as those cards are a different shape from the other sets, you have to put them in deck protectors that hide the difference
20:04:46 <elliott> haha
20:04:58 <ais523> elliott: put it this way: Dark Ritual is so good it's banned
20:05:09 <ais523> and it has the same effect, except restricted to black, and at a cost of one black mana
20:05:13 <elliott> heh
20:05:51 <elliott> they should introduce a card that does Gödel's number damage to EVERYTHING YOUR OPPONENT HAS EVER
20:06:04 <elliott> then have some ridiculously implausible way to boost health past Gödel's number
20:06:11 <elliott> tada, new rung of top players
20:06:15 <elliott> note: again, i have no idea about mtg or anything
20:07:20 <Gregor> I stand steadfastly by the notion that the fact that somebody will pay $600 for something does not mean that it's worth $600 :P
20:07:39 <elliott> Gregor: it sort of does, by definition
20:07:51 <elliott> if you had a black lotus, you could sell it for six hundred dollars
20:07:55 <elliott> therefore, it's worth six hundred dollars to you
20:07:57 <elliott> therefore, it's worth six hundred dollars to everyone
20:08:17 <Gregor> But /I/ wouldn't pay $600 for it, so it's /not/ worth $600 to me.
20:08:33 <elliott> Gregor: It is, because if you had it, you could get six hundred dollars for it.
20:08:44 <elliott> Similarly, your house is worth whatever it would sell for, regardless of what you bought it for.
20:08:56 <elliott> Traded in a house for a paperclip? Irrelevant, it's still worth whatever it would sell for.
20:09:17 <olsner> does that make the paperclip expensive or the house cheap?
20:11:28 <elliott> Gregor: BECOME A DEONTOLOGIST
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20:11:49 <Vorpal> <olsner> elliott: Vorpal probably does <-- do what?
20:12:00 <olsner> play MTG
20:12:24 <Vorpal> olsner, hell no
20:12:37 <olsner> aha, denial
20:12:50 <olsner> (and don't try to deny it!)
20:13:25 <Vorpal> olsner, I find card games boring, and the commercialism of the constant releases of add-ons and so on sickens me.
20:13:31 <Vorpal> trade card games in general do
20:14:02 <elliott> CARD GAMES ARE A TOOL OF THE MAN
20:14:28 <Vorpal> elliott, well the issue is mostly that the game play becomes about how many cards you bought
20:14:30 <olsner> Vorpal: i.e. you find them funny although you realize they should be boring, and it sickens you that you buy all cards of every new release despite the obvious commercialism
20:14:53 <Vorpal> elliott, I mean, if they were shared between the players like an add-on to many other games it would be different
20:15:05 <Vorpal> olsner, I don't own any such cards. :P
20:15:34 <olsner> that is exactly what an owner of such cards would say
20:15:51 <Vorpal> olsner, D&D is a lot more fun.
20:16:42 <elliott> and D[and]D ISN'T commercial?
20:17:31 <Vorpal> elliott, it is. But buying more of a resource from the company doesn't give you an advantage over the other player(s)
20:17:46 <Vorpal> elliott, that is the bit that sickens me
20:18:11 <elliott> SICKENS
20:18:14 <elliott> SICKENS I SAY
20:18:24 <elliott> SICKENING
20:18:40 <Vorpal> elliott, I have absolutely nothing against add-ons that are sold for money. There are quite a few for D&D. But they don't exhibit that property I just described.
20:18:57 <elliott> SICKENING
20:19:12 <Vorpal> elliott, also you are doing a wildly inaccurate strawman atm
20:19:14 <Vorpal> why
20:19:16 <elliott> SICKENING
20:19:45 <fizzie> I think I own some MTG cards (some sort of a "starter set" thing-thing thing), but I have never actually played a game of it.
20:20:10 <elliott> omg there is a site that measures how long you listen to nyancat
20:20:34 <fizzie> (Maybe reading the Microprose's Magic: The Gathering lparchive.org epic counts, though.)
20:20:56 <Vorpal> fizzie, heh. Is there any game there is no lp on?
20:21:34 <elliott> Vorpal: life
20:21:36 <elliott> DEEP BRO
20:21:36 <elliott> DEEP
20:22:00 <fizzie> Vorpal: I was about to say "I haven't seen a Skyroads LP, for example", but seems that there is one in the You Tube.
20:22:08 <Vorpal> ah...
20:22:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, isn't it the one that requires about perfect timing?
20:22:46 <elliott> Skyroads is that thing Ilari was rendering.
20:22:56 <Vorpal> elliott, yes I know
20:23:04 <fizzie> The actual game is through-playable by mortals, but the Xmas extra levels are... something else.
20:23:29 <fizzie> Quick googling says there's at least a couple of Finnish shareware games I know of that don't seem to have letsplay thingsies.
20:23:30 <Vorpal> Hey! there is non on NWN1
20:23:33 <Vorpal> none*
20:23:51 <fizzie> Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdcF5ZpCKL0 ?
20:23:56 <Vorpal> fizzie, I meant on lparchive there
20:24:07 <fizzie> Well, sure, there's quite a lot of games that aren't on lparchive.
20:24:17 <elliott> "Bluemoon's creation of SkyRoads is a polished-up remake of the game Kosmonaut. The three months spent working on it paid off when the shareware title was released in 1993, selling internationally and getting LCR distribution deals from the U.S. to Taiwan.
20:24:17 <elliott> The game's interface is an instant hit with downloaders."
20:24:19 <elliott> Downloaders?
20:24:25 <Vorpal> fizzie, most good ones are. I haven't seen df lp on youtube
20:24:31 <Vorpal> it would be boring anyway
20:24:42 <elliott> There's no Eversion LP on the archive.
20:24:43 <elliott> Is there?
20:24:53 <elliott> It wouldn't be nearly as hilarious as the jewtubes.
20:25:30 <fizzie> Also I did a thing; earlier I've only ever looked at Homestuck without sounds; now I went through http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Sound and klickeded most of the links. The flash bits were ridiculously epic before; with the music, they were positively ludicrous.
20:26:06 <elliott> Bahahaha at Homestuck without the sounds.
20:26:08 <elliott> How did that happen?
20:26:35 <Vorpal> is there any video lp of nethack? there are text ones on lparchive
20:27:02 <Vorpal> oh wait, one of them is videos
20:27:02 <fizzie> I don't tend to bother with sound. If I leave the headphones visible, the cat chews on the cord, and taking them out of a box is So Demanding(tm).
20:27:03 <Vorpal> right
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20:27:25 <elliott> fizzie: Compared to the time investment that Homestuck poses? :P
20:27:31 <Vorpal> fizzie, wouldn't cat chew on other wires too? Like keyboard cable or power cable?
20:27:36 <Vorpal> or mouse cable
20:27:38 <elliott> BLUETOOF
20:27:39 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, recommend you spread tabasco sauce on cord.
20:27:48 <Vorpal> elliott, DOESN'T SOLVE POWER CABLE
20:27:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Teach the little bastard a lesson.
20:27:55 <elliott> POWER OVER BLUETOOF
20:28:12 <fizzie> elliott: Yeah, well... I try to sort of avoid thinking about how much time it wastes.
20:28:35 <elliott> fizzie: I have a hypothesis that it is impossible to keep up with Homestuck without having your life revolve around Homestuck.
20:28:57 <elliott> I AM DREADING THE PART AFTER I FINALLY FINISH MY ARCHIVE BINGE (i.e. keeping up with like over fifteen panels per day).
20:29:15 <fizzie> elliott: I only look at it every two months or so, and then have to stay awake to 05am or so to catch up.
20:29:43 <elliott> fizzie: I am now imagining Archive Binge adding Homestuck upon its completion.
20:30:09 <elliott> fizzie: "At one panel per day, it will take you sixteen years to read the entire archive."
20:30:18 <elliott> (Assuming an extremely conservative six-thousand final panel count.)
20:31:15 <fizzie> It's at 3700-and-something now.
20:32:11 <fizzie> That's already 10+ years for page-a-day-keeps-the-doctor... busy?
20:32:59 <elliott> fizzie: OMG I am going to raise any child I have on the diet of one Homestuck per day.
20:33:03 <elliott> By the end, e might even understand it.
20:33:16 <elliott> NO WAIT
20:33:20 <elliott> Starting on eir thirteen birthday.
20:33:22 <elliott> OH MY GOD BEST IDEA
20:33:24 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I am curious as to how you plan to acquire this child.
20:33:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: DO THEY HAVE... EGG BANKS
20:34:01 <elliott> I COULD ROB ONE
20:34:08 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm not sure.
20:34:28 <elliott> AND POOP OUT A BABY
20:35:37 <elliott> https://gist.github.com/925584
20:35:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: SHUT UP
20:35:45 <elliott> THE BABY DOESN'T NEED A WOMB
20:35:46 <elliott> ONLY LOVE
20:35:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Wait, I could just do it the Homestuck wa y.
20:35:57 <elliott> way.
20:36:10 <elliott> Ol pybavat zlfrys naq fraqvat gurz onpx va gvzr. V guvax.
20:36:45 <elliott> I NEED AN EXCLAMATION MARK
20:36:46 <elliott> CAN I HAVE ONE PLEASE
20:36:53 <elliott> NEVER MIND
20:37:22 <Phantom_Hoover> I gave you all the number row in -minecraft.
20:37:32 <elliott> TOO MUCH DISCUSSION
20:37:37 <elliott> CARET-NR DOES THAT TOO ANYWAY
20:37:39 <elliott> JUST I CAN'T TYPE CARET
20:37:57 <elliott> http://koweycode.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-darcs-users-care-about-consistency.html ;; BITCH NEEDS SCAPEGOAT
20:38:43 <Sgeo_> ^nr
20:38:44 <fungot> `1234567890-=~!@#$%^&*()_+
20:38:47 <HackEgo> No output.
20:39:14 <Phantom_Hoover> I really hope you implemented ^nr.
20:39:19 * Vorpal writes a elliott-CAPS filter
20:39:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Thinking it would solve all your problems.
20:39:28 <elliott> I didn't.
20:39:29 <elliott> oerjan did.
20:39:35 <Phantom_Hoover> That.
20:39:38 <elliott> Vorpal: I'LL USE FULL-WIDTH IF YOU DO THAT
20:39:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Is even better.
20:39:44 <elliott> Vorpal: BECAUSE FUCK YOU
20:39:51 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, full-width?
20:39:58 <Vorpal> elliott, fail. I already have a conversion filter in place for that :P
20:39:59 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Japanese Latin alphabet stuff.
20:40:06 <elliott> Vorpal: And do they cascade?
20:40:13 <Vorpal> elliott, what do you mean?
20:40:23 <elliott> It'll filter out the full-width but will it then filter out the capitals?
20:40:44 <Vorpal> elliott, well that would be trivial to do by putting the caps filter after the full width one
20:41:08 <elliott> I could get around any filter trivially.
20:41:23 <Vorpal> elliott, depends on if you know it
20:42:49 <fizzie> Pre-apologies for a three-line spam that probably won't look correct for all/most/many/any.
20:42:50 <Vorpal> ah I had an awesome idea for an additional heuristic for it. Well, that will take a bit to implement (say, 10 minutes)
20:42:51 <fizzie> ▌▌▌ ▄ ▟▖ ▄ ▌ ▗ ▖▖▟▖ ▌▗ ▝ ▄ ▗▖ ▟▖▌ ▝ ▗▖ ▟▖▗ ▄ ▖▖▗ ▝ ▌ ▗▖▝ ▐ ▟▖▗ ▖▖▗▖▀▖
20:42:51 <fizzie> █▌▛▖▄▌▐ ▄▌▛▖▌▌▌▌▐ ▞▌▌▌▐ ▌▌▚▌ ▐ ▛▖▐ ▘▖ ▐ ▌▌ ▄▌▚▘▌▌▐ ▞▌ ▙ ▐ ▐ ▐ ▛▘▛ ▘▖▝
20:42:51 <fizzie> ▘▘▘▘▀▘ ▘ ▀▘▀ ▝ ▝▘ ▘ ▝▘▝ ▝ ▘▘▄▘ ▘▘▘▝ ▀ ▘▝ ▀▘▝ ▝ ▝ ▝▘ ▘ ▝ ▘ ▘▝▘▘ ▀ ▝
20:43:03 <elliott> fizzie: looks awesome in proportional font
20:43:18 <elliott> Vorpal: Wasting his time to make a stupid point since forever.
20:43:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, True. But if you do that too much someone is going to kick you
20:43:40 <Vorpal> hm actually this is easier.
20:43:46 <elliott> You could just ignore me.
20:43:50 <Vorpal> okay, first version in place
20:44:00 <Vorpal> elliott, it doesn't target just you, it targets everyone
20:44:13 <fizzie> tr A-Z a-z ← 0th version.
20:44:17 <elliott> _ _ _ _ _____ ___ ____ _____ _ _ _ _ _ _____ _____ _ __ __
20:44:17 <elliott> | | | | \ | | ___/ _ \| _ \_ _| | | | \ | | / \|_ _| ____| | \ \ / /
20:44:17 <elliott> | | | | \| | |_ | | | | |_) || | | | | | \| | / _ \ | | | _| | | \ V /
20:44:17 <elliott> | |_| | |\ | _|| |_| | _ < | | | |_| | |\ |/ ___ \| | | |___| |___| |
20:44:17 <elliott> \___/|_| \_|_| \___/|_| \_\|_| \___/|_| \_/_/ \_\_| |_____|_____|_|
20:44:18 <elliott>
20:44:19 <elliott> ___ _____ __ _____ _ _ _ _____ __ _____ ____ _ __
20:44:21 <elliott> |_ _|_ _| \ \ / / _ \| \ | ( )_ _| \ \ / / _ \| _ \| |/ /
20:44:23 <elliott> | | | | \ \ /\ / / | | | \| |/ | | \ \ /\ / / | | | |_) | ' /
20:44:25 <elliott> | | | | \ V V /| |_| | |\ | | | \ V V /| |_| | _ <| . \ _
20:44:27 <elliott> |___| |_| \_/\_/ \___/|_| \_| |_| \_/\_/ \___/|_| \_\_|\_(_)
20:44:29 <Vorpal> rate limit
20:44:32 <Vorpal> sucks doesn't it?
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20:45:19 <Vorpal> elliott, bonus: now I cut down on the rate you can write in. Much less information possible in the same number of IRC lines now
20:45:50 <Vorpal> elliott, :)
20:46:11 <Vorpal> http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/imgs/city_83.png
20:46:20 <elliott> If you actually just wanted to filter them out, you'd shut up and do it, but you're clearly just trying to irritate me since that's pretty much you only use ":)" after attempting to prove me wrong.
20:46:26 <Vorpal> that is a pretty realistic city plan
20:46:31 <Vorpal> (procedural of course)
20:46:37 <elliott> Soooo... you're kind of just giving me an incentive to work around it in the most annoying way possible
20:46:58 <Vorpal> elliott, you get riled up too easily
20:47:29 <elliott> I'm not riled up, but you're clearly trying to rile me up, and it's an idiotic enough attempt to make me want to flip it around.
20:47:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, shut up, OK?
20:47:56 <Vorpal> elliott, oh I'm not riled up :P
20:48:01 <elliott> Not yet.
20:48:57 <ais523> elliott: I can read your ASCII art despite the oroportional font
20:49:05 <ais523> well, despite my proportional font
20:49:17 <ais523> it's very distorted, but not so much that the brain can't reconstruct what it must be saying
20:49:41 <elliott> HELLO, VORPAL.
20:49:46 <Vorpal> elliott, hi?
20:50:26 <elliott> VORPAL: WHY NOT CHECK YOUR /MSGS?
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20:51:31 <Vorpal> elliott, uh, what about it?
20:51:50 <Vorpal> elliott, caps are much more annoying than caps in figlet anyway
20:53:57 <Vorpal> and now I bid you good night
21:00:25 <elliott> "...the very nature of how node works. It's event-driven, which is the reason why it's so fast."
21:00:29 <elliott> Gregor: EVENT-DRIVEN = SPEED
21:00:44 <Gregor> elliott: Best logic ever, right? :P
21:01:00 <elliott> Gregor: Maybe Node would be bearable if someone put a CPS transformer on top of it.
21:01:43 <elliott> The last nine lines of a typical Node application:
21:01:44 <elliott> });
21:01:44 <elliott> });
21:01:44 <elliott> });
21:01:44 <elliott> });
21:01:44 <elliott> });
21:01:49 <elliott> });
21:01:51 <elliott> });
21:01:53 <elliott> });
21:01:55 <elliott> });
21:02:33 <elliott> ais523: apparently Beta cards are actually the same shape and therefore more valuable
21:02:44 <ais523> elliott: Beta cards are the same shape as modern-day ones, yes
21:02:53 <ais523> although if that makes them more valuable than Alpha, that's hilarious
21:03:02 <elliott> ais523: well, no need for a holder :D
21:03:06 <ais523> (Alpha and Beta were limited-edition versions of Unlimited)
21:03:11 <olsner> elliott: that calls for lispishly putting all the end-brace-paren-semicolons on the same line
21:03:25 <ais523> olsner: I've been doing that in OCaml recently
21:03:28 <olsner> "I can code lisp in any language!"
21:03:30 <elliott> olsner: yum
21:03:30 <elliott> :D
21:03:33 <ais523> as I've been writing major chunks of parsetrees by hand
21:03:37 <elliott> }); -- totally uglier than )
21:03:38 <ais523> and any lang looks like Lisp if you do that
21:03:41 <elliott> ais523: you do that in C :D
21:03:52 <ais523> in C it would be }}}}}} in a row
21:03:54 <elliott> also, not any language where you have to initialise the fields by hand
21:03:58 <elliott> those end up looking like assembly
21:04:10 <ais523> and indeed, dekludge.c looked like that until I ported it to OIL
21:04:54 <ais523> the asm version, that is
21:04:59 <ais523> although it was comparisons not initialisations
21:05:05 <ais523> (the generated version of it still does, in fact)
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21:07:28 <elliott> hmm
21:08:30 <elliott> "If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, destroy all permanents it touches."
21:08:32 <elliott> does that mean like
21:08:35 <elliott> actually rip the cards apart?
21:08:41 <elliott> say yes
21:12:14 <olsner> elliott: see http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5712
21:12:32 <elliott> :D
21:12:35 <elliott> olsner: so destroy actually means destroy
21:12:43 <olsner> but I suspect "destroy" means something else than physically destroying the card
21:12:51 <elliott> well, if you tear up the card...
21:12:58 <elliott> now someone has to do it with those ones worth almost a thousand dollars
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21:20:02 <fizzie> Some year in RopeCon there were folks that sold Magic: the Gathering cards for the express purpose of physically destroying them. I think they awarded points for imaginative ways (setting on fire, eating, that sort of stuff) of doing it.
21:20:20 <fizzie> s/C/c/, it seems.
21:22:59 <elliott> What about melting and inhaling?
21:23:50 <ais523> elliott: there's a story of someone who ripped up their own Chaos Orb, so that it would cover a wider area
21:23:50 <ais523> possibly apocryphal, though
21:23:50 <elliott> ais523: so destroy means physically destroy?
21:23:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Chaos Orb?
21:23:50 <elliott> please just say yes
21:23:50 <ais523> no, it doesn't
21:23:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: An MTG card that involves physically throwing it up in the air and destroying the cards it lands on.
21:23:51 <ais523> it's just the MTG equivalent of an OHKO
21:23:51 <elliott> ais523: Well, http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5712 involves destroying the card in that way.
21:23:51 <elliott> Probably it was based on that story given that flavour text.
21:23:57 <ais523> I think so too
21:24:32 <ais523> but it's in an Un-set, you could expect it to have silly rules
21:31:27 <elliott> gah, software is the wors
21:31:27 <elliott> t
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21:34:01 <Phantom_Hoover> THINGS THAT ANNOY ME: people who are annoyed that Oscar Pistorius wasn't allowed into the Olympics.
21:41:22 <Phantom_Hoover> So.
21:41:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Is Homestuck worth watching at all.
21:45:22 -!- Hyper-Core has joined.
21:47:20 <Phantom_Hoover> OK
21:47:33 <Phantom_Hoover> I have just played a game of Minesweeper that convinced me God exists.
21:47:53 <Phantom_Hoover> I made, like, 4 1-in-2 random choices in succession, and they all worked.
21:50:40 <olsner> yes, obviously the work of God
21:52:31 <Phantom_Hoover> God is, like, omnipotent.
21:52:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Capriciously helping me in Minesweeper is an infinitesimal application of his powers.
21:54:44 <Phantom_Hoover> OMG there is an IT Crowd game.
21:57:00 <elliott> mathematical puzal: how many spheres can you pack into a sphere
21:57:07 <elliott> <Phantom_Hoover> Is Homestuck worth watching at all.
21:57:12 <elliott> "watching" lol
21:57:17 <elliott> And yes, abso-fucking-lutely.
21:57:18 <elliott> Well.
21:57:25 <elliott> Maybe it becomes shit after the most-of-it that I read.
21:57:31 <elliott> But seriously, it is hilarious.
21:57:49 <elliott> And epic.
21:59:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oscar Pistorius should enter the Translympics
21:59:53 <elliott> which are like the Paralympics, but for transhumanists
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22:04:44 <Gregor> <elliott> The last nine lines of a typical Node application: // REMIND YOU OF ANY OTHER LANGUAGES??? <trollface/>
22:05:02 <elliott> Gregor: At least with Lisp there wouldn't be one per line :)
22:05:26 <Gregor> X-D
22:05:27 <elliott> Gregor: But yes, it was a deliberate riff on the "leaked Lisp application" joke.
22:08:41 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:09:35 -!- augur has joined.
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22:17:49 <elliott> "interesting - so I'd be comparing an old text file with a new one? what are the real world applications?"
22:25:34 <Sgeo_> elliott, seriously? Who asked that?
22:25:44 <elliott> /r/minecraft
22:26:10 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, link. Now..
22:26:14 <elliott> Lost it by now.
22:26:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Homestuck must defer to mocking idiocy.
22:26:39 <elliott> Also, Phantom_Hoover, HOMESTUCK
22:26:40 <elliott> DEFERS
22:26:41 <elliott> TO
22:26:41 <elliott> NOTHING
22:26:51 <Phantom_Hoover> REMEMBER TKTECH????
22:26:54 <elliott> GASP
22:27:55 <Phantom_Hoover> What item was it on?
22:28:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Was it a selfpost?
22:28:19 <elliott> Shut up.
22:29:17 <Sgeo_> I should probably text her
22:29:32 <elliott> No you shouldn't, history suggests she's almost certainly a complete moron.
22:30:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, this may surprise you, but there are some women in the world who are not abject idiots.
22:30:50 <Phantom_Hoover> You may benefit from focusing your attentions on them.
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22:33:59 <Sgeo_> I have no idea if what she just texted me back with requires a response or not
22:34:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Is it stupid?
22:34:22 <Sgeo_> It's... hard to parse
22:34:31 <Phantom_Hoover> If so, I will gladly give a crack at a response.
22:34:39 <elliott> Perhaps because she is stupid and therefore cannot compose English sentences.
22:34:52 <Sgeo_> "Hey u like me call u when i gt home" I have no idea if she's asking if she should call me, or telling me that she'll call
22:35:05 <elliott> Dear god.
22:35:13 <elliott> You are not to converse with that female.
22:36:58 <monqy> I can't parse it either :(
22:36:59 <Phantom_Hoover> "I would have expected that after 2_ years, anyone living in an English-dominated environment to the extent of at least creating cogent and clear sentences. Whilst some leeway is to be given due to the vicissitudes of text messaging, there is no excuse for what you have done. Please cease all communications with me forthwith."
22:37:14 <Phantom_Hoover> (Fill in the _ with the appropriate digit.)
22:37:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, *environment would have learned it
22:37:57 <monqy> concise response: "what"
22:38:13 <elliott> better: "English, motherfucker. DO YOU SPEAK IT?"
22:38:34 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Spoiler: She's actually 9 years old.
22:39:27 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yes, the immediate followup would be "In case you failed to understand the last message: English, motherfucker. DO YOU SPEAK IT?"
22:39:48 <elliott> Say what again, motherfucker, I dare youX
22:40:11 <elliott> "ummmmm ok"
22:40:18 <elliott> "OK no country I ever heard of. They speak English in OK?"
22:52:55 <Gregor> CORRECT RESPONSE: Yes, they speak English in Oklahoma <trollface/>
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22:55:25 <elliott> [asterisk]OK ain't
22:55:30 <elliott> ([asterisk]OK ain't no)
22:56:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, I am sorry you are not making this very fun for us.
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22:59:45 <Sgeo_> ?
23:02:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, mocking this idiot.
23:02:35 <Sgeo_> I didn't text her back
23:02:52 -!- cheater- has joined.
23:04:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, but did you not see my response.
23:05:08 <Phantom_Hoover> A CHISELLED MASTERWORK of prose.
23:05:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Comparable with SCOTT AT HIS BEST
23:05:24 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:06:07 <monqy> my response was pretty good too
23:06:07 <monqy> imo
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23:08:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, for it was like something very small but very good which I can't think of a simile for because I exhausted all my literary skills on that response.
23:15:38 <Ilari> Where the heck do those researcers pull those "A or B therefore A" fallacies?
23:17:29 <Phantom_Hoover> What researchers.
23:19:42 <Ilari> Well, bad researchers all over the place.
23:20:48 <Sgeo_> A or B, not B, therefore A should work
23:21:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, that's correct.
23:21:45 <Ilari> Yes, that would work. Except that requires the "not B" bit.
23:22:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Ilari, can you actually give examples of them doing that, though?
23:22:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:23:11 <Ilari> http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/28/38/77/XHTML/index.xhtml ... For example this.
23:24:46 <Ilari> And the obvious suggested experiment: Feed rats some salted food and see what that does to proneness to colon cancer.
23:25:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Have they actually assumed that A \/ B → A, or have you seen a second explanation B that they haven't?
23:29:37 <Ilari> Well, there is more blatant stuff like this (generally being "let's change N things. Ah, the diffrences are because of this (because we think it/other factors is/are good/bad).").
23:31:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Erm, that's kind of the principle behind a controlled study.
23:32:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Isn't the principle behind those changing _one_ thing?
23:32:58 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I was assuming Ilari took "this" to mean "N things".
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23:47:00 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZycn7o7Po
23:47:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Uranium-based hard drives.
23:47:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Best idea?
23:47:19 <elliott> Yes.
23:47:38 <Phantom_Hoover> BEST PART: all the data on your disk is effectively in a Schrodinger's cat scenario.
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23:48:54 <elliott> X-D
23:49:29 <Sgeo_> Old iPods used magnetic media?
23:49:31 * Sgeo_ WTFs
23:50:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, flash memory was pathetic back then, wasn't it?
23:50:26 <Phantom_Hoover> (I remember a when a 128MB flash drive had large capacity.)
23:50:33 <Phantom_Hoover> (I still have it, somewhere.)
23:51:47 <elliott> I think I have a magnetic iPod.
23:51:49 <elliott> It is soooooo heavy.
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