< 1305158577 857334 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1305158907 328011 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy jesus fuck the Enterprise is fast. < 1305158914 270533 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homework time < 1305158916 320296 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warp 9 is about 1000c. Or 0.1 lightyears per *hour*. < 1305158918 748138 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm staying here, though < 1305159344 678890 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And the Federation is 8,000 lightyears wide. < 1305159356 529776 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making travelling across the Federation take 9 years. < 1305159947 72425 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Warp 10 is INFINITE SPEED < 1305159961 43247 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when you go warp 10 you DE-EVOLVE OH NOOOOOSE < 1305160285 205954 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you get it on with your captain. < 1305160323 320155 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to stop farking around with Fark < 1305160328 152507 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually start working < 1305160342 646767 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (really?) #f) < 1305160361 307937 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defun really () nil) < 1305160364 338692 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1305160367 929321 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defun really-p () nil) < 1305160375 899708 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it reallyp ? < 1305160406 152494 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err wait < 1305160411 146908 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :De-evolution was a different episode :P < 1305160418 357933 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that notion ALMOST approaches making sense almost. < 1305160421 829921 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You HYPER-EVOLVE < 1305160467 180378 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly, the writer's point was that there's no such thing as de-evolution < 1305160468 591290 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1305161186 684347 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1305161261 492330 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Err wait < 1305161261 573712 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric : De-evolution was a different episode :P < 1305161261 573884 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric : And that notion ALMOST approaches making sense almost. < 1305161261 573982 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You HYPER-EVOLVE < 1305161266 787988 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Err, warp ten makes you go all lizard. < 1305161287 684155 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The writer's point is that he should choke on a cock and die. Writing Threshold is unforgivable and warrants torture. < 1305161291 335963 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :His words should be banned. < 1305161315 173436 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He feels remorse for what he's done, doesn't he? < 1305161334 157612 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRRELEVANT < 1305161340 956052 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He must suffer for all eternity. < 1305161347 255463 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should watch it... < 1305161404 266732 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1305161407 311740 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really shouldn't. < 1305161409 803445 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd like it. < 1305161488 258469 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Warp 10 also makes you have infinite velocity with finite energy (?), but only go a few fractions of a lightyear away. < 1305161583 474362 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Err, warp ten makes you go all lizard. // yes, but that was by means of hyper-evolution. < 1305161611 971218 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: But he could SEE EVERYTHING, and he THOUGHT his way back to Voyager maaaaaaaan *smokes more pot* < 1305161638 583046 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to think they invented an Infinite Improbability Drive, myself. < 1305161708 582339 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should also try PHP, just to give elliott_ an anxiety attack < 1305162175 412792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have used PHP and made programs in PHP, it isn't very good. You can try if you want to though, see what it is. < 1305162731 586797 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I thought zzo38 was a PHP fan. I guess using != liking < 1305163064 10092 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1305163080 443874 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just looking up sources to support what I already know, instead of learning from them < 1305163231 75939 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305163240 25925 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Maps has options for "avoid highways" and "avoid tolls", but no "avoid Chicago" < 1305163265 529748 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Google Maps has options for "avoid highways" and "avoid tolls", but no "avoid Chicago" < 1305163267 248414 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​406) Google Maps has options for "avoid highways" and "avoid tolls", but no "avoid Chicago" < 1305163279 214770 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305163279 551493 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305163279 998625 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305163280 406506 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305163280 763330 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305163280 992489 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​322) just because i'm homosexual doesn't mean i have sex with men. ...i'm also a paedophile [...] see if i'm a gay paedophile i don't have sex with men i have sex with BOYS < 1305163282 528549 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​126) Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. < 1305163282 925545 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​276) [on Walter Bright] I went to chat with him after his talk at the ELC and he was like "hum, right - humans. How do they work again... oh, hi!" < 1305163283 242823 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​318) gah, who'd have thought removing concurrency from algol could be so difficult < 1305163285 98988 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​141) AnMaster: to any airbus plane. 3 passengers sadly died the most awesome thing ever. < 1305163288 738880 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :our quotes sure do suck < 1305163291 408069 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1305163292 337577 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1305163294 370363 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :our quotes are the best < 1305163294 894839 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1305164181 950769 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305164395 237403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bites his tongue < 1305164407 48720 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about to recommend Subversion instead of Mercurial < 1305164417 850927 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like a traitor < 1305164452 881636 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm writing this paper from the point of view of a hypothetical corporation that has never seen version control before) < 1305164495 101555 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes his mind < 1305164590 138023 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel even worse for it being Joel who made me change my mind back towards Mercurial. < 1305165322 297076 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders if there's freely available autotuning software. According to Wikipedia, "Auto-tune" is a proprietary product :/ < 1305165916 213091 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than 2 hours to go < 1305167090 772906 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: git git git git. < 1305167099 735621 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1305167116 622227 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, rather, DCVS DCVS DCVS DCVS. < 1305167123 675224 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, swap V and C. < 1305167149 986104 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Centralized version control is a fundamentally broken model. < 1305167158 139419 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not going to really describe how to take full advantage of D < 1305167166 746669 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I'm unsure of it mysef < 1305167169 116838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myself < 1305167317 895632 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you recommend D, anyways? < 1305167330 752555 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless they fixed the stupid. < 1305167369 443921 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, the "Distributed" of DVCS < 1305167373 400042 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as in the language < 1305167382 699789 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1305167397 407724 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will there be an E language? < 1305167400 544893 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have B, C, D < 1305167404 998557 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there is already < 1305167406 190442 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn git. < 1305167477 739505 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :B,C,D,E,J,R < 1305167487 698724 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's plenty I'm forgetting. What are they? < 1305167628 469848 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305167800 209355 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-217.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1305168146 306245 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My next few paragraphs will be: Subversion, Git, and Mercurial < 1305168318 767255 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dangit, can't find any sources that give the brief overview that I do < 1305168361 972013 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for a glossary < 1305168383 862067 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds one < 1305168872 503670 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way in heck that I will reach 5 pages. It is simply impossible. < 1305169479 430807 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you're going to kill me. I plan on vaguely being irritated at Git's history modification < 1305169493 494448 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without any real sources to back up my claim that it's a ticking-off sort of thing < 1305169848 741839 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cites gitvsmercurial.com < 1305169879 818300 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets the person's name off of whois < 1305169880 744238 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1305169939 250573 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :random question < 1305169958 41935 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking for a set of rules describing a turn-based strategy game that is very simple < 1305169960 796913 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe board-game level < 1305169965 121622 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305169972 640714 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teru Atlantis? < 1305169982 304188 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that'd be fun, with considerations for basic terrain features somehow and maybe a handful of units, at least one with ranged attacks < 1305169991 670396 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF that's not the phrase? < 1305170013 796378 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "Terra Atlantis"? < 1305170055 567107 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :talkin to me? < 1305170078 439762 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just commenting on TeruFSX's name < 1305170088 429034 :myndzi!myndzi@c-76-28-158-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o right < 1305170093 419590 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name < 1305170101 927000 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really want me to explain my name < 1305170562 281306 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1305171319 905062 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1305171328 416896 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is technically possible for a child to have 5 parents. < 1305171340 406637 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How? < 1305171366 629252 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biological father, biological mother, surrogate mother, adoptive father, adoptive mother. < 1305171425 562184 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider only their biological parents their real parents, but I guess what you said is possible. How many times have you found anything like this? < 1305171433 305380 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 2 and 1/4 pages < 1305171435 33236 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed 5 < 1305171468 787974 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about multiple adoptive parents? < 1305171474 529499 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I have 10 sources. < 1305171532 353448 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1305171544 434983 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, let's go further — polygamous parents. < 1305171580 96560 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is technically possible for a child to have as many parents as there are humans capable of entering into a marriage. < 1305171690 19477 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely polyamorous counts too < 1305171700 752950 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless two people who have a kid outside of marriage aren't parents < 1305171721 377724 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I wouldn't say that all polyamorous configurations would lead to everyone being a parent... < 1305171733 974185 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's obvious i guess < 1305171774 931284 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 pages of bullshit < 1305171778 28085 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 10 sources < 1305171788 229140 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way would I be able to write 5 pages, I think. < 1305171813 190050 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe namedrop some more VCSes? < 1305171819 179933 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual SourceCrap < 1305171833 269747 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Don't call "crap" things I have a limited awareness of) < 1305171876 293367 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual SourceSafe is definitely crap. < 1305171881 562716 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is incapable of multi-user use. < 1305171905 869767 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear EasyBib: Now is NOT a good time to stop working < 1305171944 782338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you need to write this report for? < 1305171989 394291 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Management Information Systems < 1305171993 366321 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : the topic is from the spambots right? are those things still going? < 1305172005 680015 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a term project. I started it today. It's due in 12 minutes. < 1305172020 349130 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it seems that tightening captchas fixed it (before it only was for anonymous edits with links in) < 1305172082 427882 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought *I* was a procrastinator. < 1305172144 65532 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't write anymore < 1305172150 835117 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm handing it in as is < 1305172270 233863 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No! Make it double-spaced! < 1305172275 473476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it is < 1305172299 589490 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then make narrow margins! < 1305172326 453034 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way it will fill 5 pages. < 1305172337 13476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to make sure TurnItIn doesn't think I'm a plagiarist < 1305172355 889837 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it check? < 1305172359 442618 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea < 1305172371 282546 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't use their service. < 1305172385 594363 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo needs to make sure TurnItIn doesn't think I'm a plagiarist < 1305172389 433436 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an amazing inversion of logic. < 1305172396 746124 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plagiarism.org < 1305172396 911370 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, Turnitin for students. Avoid accidental plagiarism. < 1305172400 375413 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidental plagiarism < 1305172403 964954 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP < 1305172450 294513 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was once accused of plagiarising by a professor, simply because I used big words. < 1305172480 880832 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1305172484 247588 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered < 1305172489 287238 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRANSFERRING TO A PLACE THAT ISN'T A HEAP OF SHIT < 1305172641 404902 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cited a page that says "Who the FUCK cares" < 1305172651 44691 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel ... weird, not bad weird, about that < 1305172658 512523 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: 42 < 1305172667 766806 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if he's secretly a muslim, we'll be okay < 1305172669 518801 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus i wish xchat's ignore features were more usable this is killing me < 1305172679 315871 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, ...what? < 1305172680 290786 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1305172686 316282 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was scrolled too far up < 1305172688 686964 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1305172699 3327 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i was only like a screen away from current < 1305172705 3759 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like...a day off :P < 1305172726 877019 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1305172861 726115 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He's probably just tired. Or a sociopath." < 1305172889 267813 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1305172913 746866 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with that, oklofok entered < 1305172938 338303 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1305173002 229648 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305173044 128985 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1305173048 924595 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Biological father, biological mother, surrogate mother, adoptive father, adoptive mother. < 1305173074 137051 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this woman of which the norwegian government made a half-example < 1305173079 394502 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexample < 1305173097 906558 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :she went to india to get a surrogate mother for her child (this is not legal to get done in norway) < 1305173140 665761 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :intending to become a single mother. she didn't use her own eggs. < 1305173141 347784 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what isn't legal? < 1305173158 759145 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :using surrogate mothers < 1305173179 298809 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1305173179 477459 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1305173276 634110 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least paying them for it. i'm not sure of the details. < 1305173305 606896 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, since she's not even the biological mother, by norwegian law she is _not_ the parent. by indian law, she is. < 1305173323 467302 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :left the twins in complete legal limbo < 1305173379 204278 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that leave them stateless? < 1305173380 105312 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :she almost got permission to adopt them anyway, but she lied on the application and said it _was_ her eggs < 1305173380 972158 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a limbo < 1305173387 721801 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1305173418 469631 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fuck. < 1305173427 628954 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like HATEless < 1305173470 523469 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they showed some mercy after about a year, and let her adopt anyway. < 1305173484 235422 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why there's laws against altruistic surrogacy. At all. < 1305173566 670745 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for most of that year she was stranded in an indian hotel room with twins without a legal visa < 1305173703 417614 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty clear that the government were going to let them in _eventually_. but making sure no one else would want to try and copy her. or be able to claim ignorance. < 1305173739 960378 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, seems that the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons does not cover in any way a stateless child of a stated person. < 1305173773 282706 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's irrelevant, anyways. India is not signatory. < 1305173854 770900 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one _could_ point out that india's laws support a booming surrogate parent _industry_ < 1305173884 158493 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy as hell to cease that. Stop banning practices for no good reason! < 1305173910 736410 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305173969 320748 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1305174126 704057 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1305174184 491290 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. < 1305174193 198911 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa? < 1305174207 981493 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A third instance of eye evolution in the vertebrates. < 1305174213 439176 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dolichopteryx longipes is a species of barreleye fish. It has evolved a second pair of eyes with distinct optics. < 1305174217 740449 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using *reflective* optics. < 1305174232 315527 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION found an english article somewhat about it on an indian website http://www.csrindia.org/index.php/surrogate-motherhood < 1305174280 188620 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone's arguing against /unregulated/ surrogacy are they? < 1305174292 140179 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]surrogacy, < 1305174300 151501 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the barreleye fish, BTW, have transparent skulls) < 1305174392 54571 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you mean _for_? < 1305174402 439685 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, yes < 1305174406 493448 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1305174421 967753 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eyes elliott_ suspiciously < 1305174457 494851 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1305174491 106942 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SCARY LIBERTARIANS < 1305174521 733088 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes absolutely a libertarian that is what i am < 1305174987 265017 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme wiki has been hit by spam < 1305175162 522570 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abqbebrsbbsbbdbsbdbsbabqbqbqbqbqbqbqbq < 1305175362 211141 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really want some < 1305175362 938648 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bread < 1305176057 604464 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Turing Completeness Considered Harmful" < 1305176103 606862 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also total FP :P < 1305176115 420852 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (spam) (spam) (spam)) < 1305176116 321937 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also all theorem provers < 1305176186 190146 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is all the spam from that streak reverted? < 1305176192 267729 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we sort of went about it piecemeal < 1305176238 478105 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to double check everything, and yesterday i asked ais523 to look over Special:New pages < 1305176259 965616 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hopefully < 1305177292 667356 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL about Louis Wain, a man whose cat paintings show the progression of his schizophrenia. (dangerousminds.net) < 1305177293 218305 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :REDDIT < 1305177295 265099 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME < 1305177548 716798 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROBLEM? < 1305177616 851646 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CANNOT FUCKING COUNT < 1305177618 477604 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE NUMBER OF TIMES < 1305177620 332570 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE SEEN THAT BULLSHIT < 1305177622 470127 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON THE INTERNET < 1305177631 719407 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I CAN COUNT IN EQUAL NUMBER THE AMOUNT OF TIMES I'VE SEEN IT REFUTED < 1305177647 726027 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think I can unsubscribe from *every* subreddit? < 1305177806 444182 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1305177844 267298 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1305177847 765873 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go do that now. < 1305177855 661420 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there'll be no crap at all on my frontpage. < 1305177877 20646 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could add askscience, i hear it's pretty good < 1305177902 661506 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why would I want to see other people's ignorance? < 1305177913 398812 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there sixty seconds in a minute, sixty minutes in an hour etc? And why does a second last the duration that it does? (self.askscience) < 1305177918 281258 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't you make a perpetual spinning magnetic motor? (self.askscience) < 1305177926 425315 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have 20/20 vision and put on somebody's prescription glasses, will I basically see the way that they do? (self.askscience) < 1305177926 545578 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1305177933 65220 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, i do not think this would be a good subreddit to subscribe to. < 1305177948 912216 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :too cynical to live, check < 1305177949 773870 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does a dog know to make eye contact? With a human? (self.askscience) < 1305177950 491547 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's magic < 1305177957 183007 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell phones are killing bees? Is this true? (self.askscience) < 1305177957 777052 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305177961 195461 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the sky a bright orange sky before a thunderstorm? (self.askscience) < 1305177962 565764 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god's wrath < 1305177966 911418 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Questions about the wave-particle duality in quantum mechanics (self.askscience) < 1305177968 863083 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ride the wave < 1305177971 10210 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't surf on particles < 1305177974 210672 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can drinking distilled water exclusively be harmful? (self.askscience) < 1305177976 499655 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you will get drunk < 1305177980 157160 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do atomic explosions result in mushroom-shaped clouds? (self.askscience) < 1305177982 308352 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because god is getting high < 1305177986 926837 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many Homo Sapien ancestors do I have (approximately)? (self.askscience) < 1305177989 436960 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about three, you inbred fuck < 1305177991 165363 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is great < 1305177994 878705 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should post all of these < 1305178009 64885 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, Arc is one of the 3 despised-by-many-Lispers lisps? < 1305178016 583302 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are three? < 1305178019 166934 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with newLisp and Clojure? < 1305178028 663389 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most Lispers like Clojure. < 1305178030 263178 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um are these actual posts and answers or have you never actually visited the subreddit? (i admit i rarely have) < 1305178034 308447 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1305178042 995394 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actual posts, I'm making up the answers because I hate these people < 1305178056 19749 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, Arc isn't hated much for its actual language, it's more pg's hyping and the subsequent utter letdown. < 1305178056 534899 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't quit your day job < 1305178065 250197 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's the _answers_ i've heard are good < 1305178068 235173 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"utter letdown"? < 1305178072 832874 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language itself is uninteresting/crappy, but it's too intwined with pg's ego as far as hatred goes. < 1305178085 713885 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um, he spent over five years saying he was working on a revolutionary lisp dialect that would last a hundred years < 1305178098 876831 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it was released it was a few hundred lines of scheme code with shorter names for some functions, and an http server < 1305178105 758156 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even any unicode support < 1305178114 724212 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he literally said he wanted arc to last a hundred years) < 1305178123 825192 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good answers to stupid questions? well that's not exactly a difficult business :D < 1305178124 58206 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-179-134.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1305178167 328700 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1305178176 588723 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305178212 678000 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically arc is the proof that pg has hit his own whatever it was starting with b < 1305178227 290850 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :book? < 1305178232 417491 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :buxom < 1305178233 420664 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastard < 1305178234 851672 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bark < 1305178239 924361 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no a word someone made up, possibly pg himself < 1305178245 200901 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bust < 1305178248 196656 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: blub < 1305178251 619211 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, pg made it up < 1305178252 856053 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it was < 1305178433 721263 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really remember why newLISP was hated, except for the memory management, and I think even I saw that something some newLISP defender said was... wrong somehow < 1305178499 341790 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no garbage collection, is uninteresting in most if not every way, and its creator and all its fans are evidently idiots as they try and scramble to justify this in the most terrible way possible < 1305178502 117583 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BUT EVAL IS FAST" < 1305178513 818775 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'll let dynamic scoping slide as picolisp pulls it off) < 1305178570 400171 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dutch is like English from some alternative, backwards universe where hydrogen is replaced with vowels." < 1305178610 452870 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"@radekg Please don't insult COBOL like that. It's nowhere near as bad as ColdFusion. :-)" < 1305178614 535544 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/2846/which-programming-language-do-you-really-hate < 1305178621 3459 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't < 1305178623 115454 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't fucking ask < 1305178623 976301 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question < 1305178625 253144 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are about < 1305178626 275154 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fucking ask < 1305178628 12867 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do it < 1305178635 567307 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i will commit serious acts of violence against you and nobody will be able to stop me :( < 1305178640 502972 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such will the force of my facepalming be < 1305178646 802531 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, did you think I was about to ask if I should learn ColdFusion? < 1305178660 421420 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were going to ask why it sucked < 1305178717 66526 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's more than just the XMLishness < 1305178730 15291 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had and read a book on ColdFusion once when I was young) < 1305178737 819721 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a non-xml thing too < 1305178738 953621 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i know this < 1305178739 525318 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this < 1305178746 581033 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to get drunk and forget everything i know about codlfusion < 1305178802 355640 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't hide that easily < 1305179122 137985 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha @ coldfusion < 1305179183 877645 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Basic constructs of any decent language include the ability to specify a null value. You will find no such thing in ColdFusion, only hacks into it's Java layer (another questionable mess) and a ridiculous nod in the form of (cfqueryparam null="yes")." < 1305179200 606233 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. That's... probably the only wrong reason to hate CF < 1305179211 837359 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not having nulls is _not_ a bad thing) < 1305179225 982184 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having no nulls and no maybe/option type certainly is < 1305179226 773084 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you can't handle their occasional use cases easily) < 1305179233 765462 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasional? < 1305179239 690219 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returning "maybe a value, or maybe not" is almost universal. < 1305179244 74766 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, any kind of lookup. < 1305179265 450936 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, true < 1305179401 668571 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the superiorest way to fail is continuations, especially these modern and structured continuations called exceptions are particularly handy < 1305179443 124285 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-local control flow ARE YOU CRAZY????? < 1305179460 603606 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the locals are so dirty < 1305179497 260309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also every monad can be implemented with continuations, see felleisen < 1305179552 829342 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a nice sigfpe post about that too < 1305179662 979387 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one about how you could get monad syntax for any monad if it just worked for Cont? < 1305179689 674290 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1305179703 585999 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think so < 1305179871 910991 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is this the real Slava Pestov? http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6ikav/shortest_summary_of_the_release_of_arc_and_the/c03xxhe < 1305179980 144766 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1305179988 396028 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION said that without even clicking :) < 1305180011 512788 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6ikav/shortest_summary_of_the_release_of_arc_and_the/c03y3l6 < 1305180048 623656 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1305182123 444472 :elliott_!~elliott@91.104.253.77 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305182333 940987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1305182759 820102 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, he's even on irc here < 1305182793 280420 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1305182810 248236 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 33 hours idle < 1305182931 162780 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like, he chats n' stuff < 1305182943 7421 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can totally orz him if you want < 1305182974 97002 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater666: well i was just wondering if the reddit account was real, is all < 1305182980 728229 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :o ok < 1305183002 78741 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, he was making a pretty strong statement, there < 1305183007 969078 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahah < 1305183023 974915 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orz (also seen as Or2, on_, OTZ, OTL, STO, JTO,[22] _no, _冂○,[23] 囧rz,[20] O7Z, _|7O, Sto, O|¯|_, and Jto[original research?]) is an emoticon representing a kneeling or bowing person < 1305183032 373185 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"original research" xD < 1305183060 868898 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, good programmers need a good kick in the butt if they're doing stupid shit < 1305183138 696598 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1305183198 123738 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that applies very well to paul graham. he is one of those unreasonable people George Bernard Shaw spoke about. < 1305183216 814494 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is wonderful when he is _right_, of course, but... < 1305184340 720377 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bootable livecd for anonymity? Where have I heard that before... < 1305184628 325292 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boo-table, the main building block of a ghost database. < 1305184649 380494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealing that kthx < 1305187902 420837 :siracusa!~siracusa@p54ACF957.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305187996 100963 :siracusa!~siracusa@p54ACFA01.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305188091 313729 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1305190516 601537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1305190687 461407 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater666. < 1305190688 946423 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :囧? < 1305190691 320285 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is that? < 1305190708 837905 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a mangled Chinese 4. < 1305190764 956292 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it is a kanji/hanzi < 1305190768 398838 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be the font. < 1305190917 253051 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :adfgkjsdfb < 1305191570 531254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305192504 864503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1305192544 747739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1305192549 732583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I'm meant to be teaching a tutorial right now < 1305192553 700790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of my students showed up < 1305192558 127440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm sitting in the room with a laptop < 1305193135 230618 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the right room? < 1305193295 930831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305193314 389263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was slightly late, so I'm wondering whether they all turned up, decided I wasn't coming, and went home; or whether they never turned up in the first place < 1305193319 782599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's optional, because it's exam revision < 1305193345 974880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they haven't turned up, I have to wonder if they don't need it, or they're really overconfident, or they're really lazy < 1305193614 336063 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around here people generally wait for up to 10-20 minutes before giving up. < 1305193686 988080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about how late I was, train issues < 1305193863 836986 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1305193982 92430 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1305194031 233350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 囧? <--- looks like a simple outline of a house inside a frame < 1305194089 415390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is not slightly late, that is quite a bit late < 1305194097 443007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1305194188 996808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, slightly late: up to 5 minutes, a bit late: up 10 minutes, late: up to 15 minutes, quite a bit late: up to 25 minutes, very late: up to 45 minutes, extremely late: anything above that < 1305194208 509033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you could quantify vague adjectives that accurately < 1305194209 658805 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this an ISO standard? < 1305194214 733633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it should be! < 1305194230 585233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then you learnt something new today < 1305194238 480246 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The late: when dead. < 1305194262 942673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1305194389 83477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually that is the old system, in the new system it is preferred to give it in units of late (with metric prefixes), so you were 8 decilate < 1305194408 980863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1305194413 104655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that was wrongt < 1305194414 888359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong* < 1305194436 741530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :4/3 late in fact < 1305194460 830681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I suspended my laptop, came back to my office, unsuspended it, and was still connected to IRC < 1305194481 343231 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305194488 129258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was that s2ram? < 1305194498 259616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to RAM, yes < 1305194502 502197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect hibernation to work < 1305194514 332412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to pull out ethernet cable, untangle the cabling, plug it back in, and still be connected to irc < 1305194529 841213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised it works with wireless and with s2ram though < 1305194545 631813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that really surprises me is that the IP didn't change < 1305194551 782263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably, if it had, reconnecting automatically would have failed) < 1305194552 981229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCP's like that; I guess I've mentioned the "can hang-up the dialup connection and redial without IRC dropping" thing here earlier. < 1305194572 465711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm well aware that TCP is capable of handling the connection break, though, as long as it's short enough that there's no pingout < 1305194573 783441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not that I remember < 1305194580 773865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UDP is actually like that too, for different reasons < 1305194594 438285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes UDP is like that hm < 1305194595 935749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the connection doesn't actually exist, so a short enough interruption is indistinguishable from the connection breaking < 1305194614 885158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that depends on the protocol on top of udp though < 1305194631 498077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, yes, but I'm talking if you just write a program that's pretty much raw UDP < 1305194634 827665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a chat server or something < 1305194650 830366 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, that was most of the story already, though I also did patch ircii to say "PING? PONG!" whenever the server pinged, so I could choose to do the disconnection immediately after a previous ping. < 1305194650 911403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could lose messages in the udp case (unlike the tcp case) < 1305194666 856168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1305194668 654807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed, but for something like a chat server that's less of a problem < 1305194672 653542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why did you patch it like that < 1305194683 493744 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think mIRC used to say it like that. < 1305194691 62174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1305194697 687470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC servers don't actually ping each other to check connection < 1305194697 768550 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some win3.11-age version of it, anyway.) < 1305194707 759631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just assume the pings, and send a constant stream of pongs < 1305194708 355722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why did you redial < 1305194725 149259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean the server-server protocol? Well that varies between ircds < 1305194762 519387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though sending keep alive messages is one way yes < 1305194835 707601 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That was a silly telephone call pricing thing. The local telephone company used to have fixed-price-per-call "evening" (17-08) local call prices; then after modems got all popular they changed it so that the "per-call" price only got you 30 minutes, after that it was some per-minute pricing. So the cheapest way to stay online was a series of ~30-minute calls. < 1305194871 269307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, that's why they do that? < 1305194890 865980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK, the phone cost for evening calls nowadays is something like 10p for the first hour, then 1p per minuts < 1305194892 414798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh, did you do it by a script then? < 1305194892 622819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minute < 1305194916 512757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the phone company actually suggests redialing every hour for that reason < 1305194934 156343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh :D < 1305194942 102678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they suggest it openly... < 1305194945 617458 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I haven't seen any official rationale; but that's my guess, anyway, since it happened pretty soon after people started spending time online with several hours long phonecalls. < 1305194958 913434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think they're assuming that people assume that that's just how phones work < 1305194972 682371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1305194986 511222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they need reconnecting? < 1305194987 81286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the other reason to do things like that is because most phone calls are very short, but people still have to pay for the whole first hour anyway < 1305194994 623374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that they start costing more after an hour < 1305195004 481578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh I see < 1305195050 55073 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I guess; but the per-call price here was only ~5 minutes worth of the per-minute pricing. (Which was actually I think the same per-minute price they used normally for the mon-fri 8-17 calls.) < 1305195054 817678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, modems are dead these days (outside development countries at least) < 1305195076 68286 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't have a completely automated script since I wanted to time it for the pings, and hooking up pppd's time-elapsed counter with ircii's ping-checking sounded a bit overly elaborate. < 1305195085 682042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ditto here < 1305195095 958360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, PPP still survives in the form of PPPoE/PPPoA and such, oh and tethering over bluethooth at least < 1305195101 99896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's because the per-minute pricing is insane, rather than because the first-hour price is cheap < 1305195133 760252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, after a while, one of the phone companies came up with an "as many phone calls as you like, of any length, to one ISP for a flat rate" < 1305195148 982094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's more or less how the monthly-cost internet connection came to the UK < 1305195161 350954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1305195177 80802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't monthly cost internet standard for anything that isn't dial-up? < 1305195187 100045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever seen dial-up that is monthly cost < 1305195197 548974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is /nowadays/ < 1305195201 392104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway at least in Sweden the ISPs are generally the phone companies < 1305195202 262906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was pretty revolutionary then < 1305195210 41091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as it was dialup back then < 1305195224 148069 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they did some sort of Internet-related phone-call deals here in Finland too. < 1305195240 891599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, in the UK nowadays, the ISPs, cable/satellite TV providers, phone companies, and even sometimes mobile phone companies are all the same < 1305195260 504624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember the price too, it was £25 a month < 1305195270 32059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes, mobile phone companies are mostly the same as land line ones, with a few that are mobile only < 1305195275 498451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here < 1305195277 677748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, it's about that nowadays, although effectively cheaper because of inflation < 1305195292 634245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: here, there are several mobile only < 1305195309 461857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there aren't all that many companies doing mobile phone here < 1305195323 157062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the largest landline company, BT, don't really do mobile phones (they do, technically, but only because they bought a mobile phone company and run it as a mostly separate unit) < 1305195331 711174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are quite a lot of major mobile phone companies in the UK < 1305195361 700228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see, Telia, Tele2, Telenor, 3, Comviq, Halebop (owned my Telia, but targets a different market segment than Telia itself). < 1305195365 51523 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that the current landline local call price here is... 0.012 eur/minute + 0.121 eur/call, with no special cases. Or possibly 0.0059 eur/minute with a different sort of deal. < 1305195372 388813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some more, but not any large ones < 1305195442 155283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow, that's cheap by UK standards < 1305195457 181099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what landline price is < 1305195459 259022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably the UK is cheap by the standards of some other countries < 1305195474 668606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is here* < 1305195476 972668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was in Canada, I tried to make an international call by payphone to the UK < 1305195490 937290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the way it worked was, you dialed the number first then the phone told you how much it would cost, and you either paid or hung up < 1305195495 472097 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0.012 eur/minute + 0.121 eur/call translates to 1.046p/minute and 10.544p/call, which sounds like those prices you mentioned, with the exception that you start paying per-minute immediately at the start of the call even in the evenings. < 1305195519 512248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I tried, it took something like 5 minutes to work out the cost, and gave a number so large that I couldn't be reasonably expected to fit that many coins into my wallet to be able to pay it a coin at a time < 1305195531 584023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh right, I muddled euros and eurocents < 1305195536 119949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder I thought your prices were cheap < 1305195552 562364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe < 1305195563 205234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it took 5 minutes to work out the cost!? < 1305195572 51975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think the phone wasn't doing it itself < 1305195587 162553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it phoned up some central cost calculation location that had to work out how much a call to the UK was likely to cost < 1305195597 271623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for all I know, it was being done by hand rather than automatically < 1305195597 937691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was it a human doing it then? < 1305195600 725360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305195608 493771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1305195626 88359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a computer would do it in a fraction of a second yeah < 1305195630 163120 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :International telephony is a complicated thing. < 1305195653 100335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a phone call from Hungary to the UK and that wasn't so bad < 1305195668 40047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was definitely calculated automatically, connection took no more than a couple of seconds longer than normal < 1305195694 784395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :expected since it would have to route in a complex way I guess < 1305195696 482845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a bit more expensive than a typical landline connection, but that wasn't surprising < 1305195703 471189 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile phone roaming abroad is also quite messy, protocol-wise, if I recall correctly from some telecommunications-basics lectures. The phone gets a temporary "virtual number" in the country-you're-visiting and so on. < 1305195716 326016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they do, huh < 1305195731 544431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it was within Europe, though, and that's practically one country for some purposes < 1305195763 422428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in Sweden there is no longer any difference between long distance/local within the country for rates < 1305195772 510531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a difference between to landline / to mobile though < 1305195785 698398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course international rates is the usual mess < 1305195800 346312 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We still have local/long-distance landline prices, it seems. < 1305195836 396462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think people are really making any new landline deals in any significant numbers, though. < 1305195849 667345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305195860 858408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about ADSL? < 1305195870 558644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes over landline after all < 1305195899 416383 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, but that's usually sold (at least in here) as an internet-only service and without a telephone number + contract. < 1305195905 406823 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1305195946 71735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in the UK, the landline normally just comes with the house nowadays < 1305195948 407593 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think new buildings tend to opt for some sort of fiber-based interwebbing anyway. I have no idea if they still install traditional telephone wiring though. < 1305195954 896178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so new landline deals are mostly only made for new houses < 1305195968 795632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have to have traditional telephone wiring so you can make an emergency call during a power cut < 1305196001 843024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305196042 509883 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have some sort of "can make an emergency call even without a landline contract"? Because at least in here people have been busily giving those up. < 1305196042 644734 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone here used any AST-based source code editors? < 1305196053 151931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: I think Cheery was writing one < 1305196060 532356 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's Cheery? < 1305196065 771759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who was here a while back < 1305196076 308108 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know someone's writing one for Haskell, but he's only talking about it and not really doing it < 1305196084 529212 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you guys think of the concept? < 1305196093 14907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you make an emergency call from a mobile in the UK, any mobile operator in range has to pick it up and relay it, whether you have a contract with them or not < 1305196095 317479 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think AST + vim style operation could be very cool < 1305196100 847099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, many phones can do it even without a SIM card < 1305196115 126156 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with telephone wiring. < 1305196122 645077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1305196124 262352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think you can call 112 no matter what in Sweden. Such as mobile carriers have to let them through by law even if you don't have a contract with them, or you are out of money on a pre-paid plan or whatever < 1305196136 878424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the telephone wiring, I imagine emergency calls would only work if it was physically connected to something at the other end < 1305196138 811070 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, technically, a sim card has got wires (well, conductors) in it < 1305196154 645822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc my mobile can call 112 without entering the PIN even < 1305196165 110112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: would suck if your PIN started 112 < 1305196166 659882 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1305196169 419598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the phone know about that? < 1305196171 768362 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the enter-pin screen? < 1305196174 506966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, different button for call and for OK < 1305196175 401974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1305196176 913918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. do you have to press 1 1 2 green, or something like that?) < 1305196188 219037 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1305196206 489407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 is technically the emergency number in the UK too, although 999 still works, and probably will do forever < 1305196208 727245 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Percentage of homes with a landline telephone in Finland has dropped from 94% to 33% between 1995-2007; but I can't find any newer statistics. :/ < 1305196217 912514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, from google image search, this is my phone model: http://dansbandsfrun.bloggproffs.se/files/nokia-3120-classic-021.jpg < 1305196224 929778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have the blackish one) < 1305196243 397911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(112 is a much superior number from a physical point of view; it's harder to type by mistake on a keypad, and faster to dial on an old-fashioned rotary dial phone) < 1305196249 898962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blue - button above the call button is used for OK < 1305196308 565259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on a non-rotary phone it is harder to get right if you are in a stressful situation, with 999 you can just mash one button a couple of times < 1305196333 231238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, when my little sister was very young she dialed 999 by mistake, because 9 was her favourite number < 1305196338 597734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1305196341 393799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N900 "enter lock code" screen has a number pad and a "done" button; if you type in 112 as the code, an extra "emergency call" button appears above the "done" button. < 1305196341 820567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my parents had to explain what happened to the emergency response people < 1305196350 993747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, they were presumably quite used to that sort of thing happening < 1305196353 901424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1305196372 698172 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SIM entry dialog might have a similar thing. < 1305196383 314268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't cost much money for them to answer a call and decide it isn't an emergency; it's only when they decide it is that it's really expensive < 1305196396 222038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, has anyone here made an actual emergency call, ever? < 1305196400 734442 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have. < 1305196402 588036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still hitting 9999 will still take you to emergency service, while I don't think 1112 or such will take you to the right place (presumably 1122 would though) < 1305196417 479500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did once (calling university security on their emergency number because a fight had broken out in the building I was in) < 1305196429 799398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a fight at university, heh < 1305196432 999224 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305196434 982101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how weird < 1305196435 329898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what was yours about? < 1305196442 331492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed, and it was looking quite violent < 1305196456 189314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just wouldn't expect that in a university < 1305196466 473474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to stop it myself, but the fight just migrated into a lift (en-us:elevator) and shot off way out of the range where I could chase it < 1305196481 818120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the end it was broken up by security < 1305196499 360852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyone you knew involved? < 1305196512 570500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1305196519 760325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were in my department, but I had no idea who they were < 1305196525 530787 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There was a fire alarm device going on in the apartment above us, and after it had been going on for 15 minutes or so without stopping I thought I'd better let the fire emergency people know about it. They sent a car to take a look. < 1305196528 326579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, students? faculty? < 1305196534 188059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :students < 1305196537 353399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1305196544 209103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: was it a fire? < 1305196572 152059 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Turned out the people living above us had for some really inexplicable reason an (indoors) fire alarm in their *balcony*, and perhaps the -25-degrees-Celsius temperatures or something had gotten it confused. < 1305196580 131329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, uh wouldn't fire alarm in a university building be wired to automatically notify emergency services < 1305196582 493127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha < 1305196583 488798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least around here they are < 1305196587 718647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mostly they are over here < 1305196588 852633 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This was at home. < 1305196598 418027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh I read that as department, not apartment < 1305196604 59429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last building I was in (not this one, the one with the Door) was originally wired up to the fire department < 1305196619 540094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they gave up after a while, as the builders kept drilling through fire alarm signal wires and calling out the fire engines as a result < 1305196619 755208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, originally? < 1305196628 807363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1305196642 860417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I seen a handful of false alarms at university myself < 1305196650 166729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now they have a system where the signal went to security control, and they'd check to see if it looked like an actual fire or manual call, and call the fire brigade themselves if it was actualy a fire < 1305196660 804813 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i would <3 to see uni faculty get it on < 1305196663 944468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my current department, the fire alarm has only ever gone off during actual fire drills < 1305196671 569940 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"take this, you LIBERAL FAG!" < 1305196675 173475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the burglar alarm goes off by mistake quite a bit < 1305196681 684713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can be annoying during lectures < 1305196714 499517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I seen an electrician set off a burgler alarm next to a lab I was in at one point. < 1305196714 913364 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think an ast-based editor can be useful? < 1305196720 830022 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ^ < 1305196724 538778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice < 1305196730 517055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a few hours in between < 1305196733 215976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: potentially, yes, but I likely wouldn't use one < 1305196740 571993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think he would avoid doing it the second time < 1305196740 865351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :text has huge benefits < 1305196741 487532 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you not? < 1305196751 345586 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of benefits? < 1305196762 293532 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe he failed at avoiding. < 1305196765 262159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily interpret it in a different way < 1305196771 281865 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled snake eyes on the critical roll < 1305196777 307647 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and? < 1305196785 14865 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does that relate to source code? < 1305196795 59991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often line up columns with whitespace in my programs, for instance, so I can easily do edits going down the columns rather than across the rows < 1305196798 945693 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: After our high school building was renovated (and a new wing built), there was a series of maybe 5 or so spurious fire alarms within a period of about two weeks. The emergency service people probably got quite bored about it. (And the first call was answered with real fire truck, maybe even a couple, while for the last one someone just came with a regular car to turn the thing off.) < 1305196801 674491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an operation that makes no sense in an AST < 1305196811 869457 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no reason an ast-based editor couldn't do that < 1305196817 962068 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just display < 1305196830 180111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: I'd say it wouldn't be AST-based if it did < 1305196832 274873 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things can display serialized data in equal-width columns < 1305196835 165881 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say it is < 1305196840 623391 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about the navigation and editing < 1305196847 4775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lucky there wasn't a real fire then the last time < 1305196856 763046 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example the space between the source items could, inside the editor, be zero-width < 1305196876 255593 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would not be displayed zero width, instead the right amount of space would be displayed < 1305196884 597975 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, what's on screen != what's in the buffer < 1305196888 212291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: but the columns aren't part of the AST at all < 1305196897 246634 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but they're part of the display < 1305196904 417870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now design a language where columns would be part of the AST < 1305196906 620794 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason you can't have a render pass < 1305196906 785871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no clue how) < 1305196911 68535 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1305196922 543636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they would be in DownRight < 1305196930 351985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, part of the reason that doesn't have an interp yet is that it doesn't have a syntax < 1305196932 908824 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um, befunge. < 1305196935 492645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not familiar with that language *checks esowiki* < 1305196942 719963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I put it there yet, but it's really simple < 1305196959 833606 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what do you think about an ast-based text editor? < 1305196962 894444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't there indeed < 1305196964 722177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program is a rectangular matrix, treated as a torus, and each cell contains a possibly empty string of "down" and "right" < 1305196976 287337 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if the text editor does a render pass to line up things, are you happier with it? < 1305196977 626307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :running a program, you start by appending a copy of the contents of the first cell to a queue < 1305196984 885638 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean lining up columns is trivial < 1305196984 993344 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1305196991 362036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what? < 1305196994 433025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then continuously move in the program according to the queue, appending a copy of the contents of each cell as you go < 1305197005 451887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1305197009 607540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's TC < 1305197019 244860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that queue wouldn't grow more than 1 element would it? < 1305197025 478328 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have two lines like this: [1, 2, 555, 6, , 2, 1] and [1, 5, , 2, 77] <--- those two can be lined up trivially < 1305197026 59216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each cell contains a string < 1305197029 377998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1305197062 935013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you know it is TC? < 1305197068 469899 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want is a language where the indentation of the line changes the scope it operates in, but lines still get executed from top to bottom < 1305197098 856468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the width and height of the matrix are coprime, it compiles neatly into more or less everything (that's not how I know it's TC, I proved it was TC by compiling cyclic tag into it) < 1305197110 256561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: Python? < 1305197110 460421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305197112 237462 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: you could have an if branch which defines a new local scope. inside this if branch you could have a single line that's one indentation less than the rest of the if body. it makes the line operate on the context that the if clause was on. < 1305197114 565140 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Vorpal, what languages do you speak natively? < 1305197121 639506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1305197126 750983 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, python finishes blocks on encountering lesser indentation < 1305197128 508093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so why would it not have an interpreter? < 1305197133 540125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think INTERCAL is the only program which has scopes that work like that, and it doesn't use indentation for scoping < 1305197137 440190 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i speak native haskell < 1305197140 390028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you could interpret it just fine < 1305197145 647685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just also happens to compile easily < 1305197145 822486 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1305197151 402194 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think this could be an interesting esolang? < 1305197157 700588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be < 1305197161 799457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, so could most other things < 1305197162 246048 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1305197165 655968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, Swedish I guess. Though I manage quite well in English, and in some areas (compsci mostly) I know the words of things in English but not in Swedish. < 1305197168 543740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it wouldn't be a boring BF derivative < 1305197170 782532 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why could it be? < 1305197180 74161 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok < 1305197185 994317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: because you only really need one new idea to make an interesting esolang < 1305197189 500141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you milk it to death < 1305197200 993159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forte is my favourite example of that, among the esolangs I've designed < 1305197204 777750 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what other ideas could be used for this esolang? < 1305197206 731759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so why is it not implemented, it should be easier than befunge even, < 1305197214 49091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :need a proper spec though < 1305197214 818600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it doesn't have a syntax < 1305197221 415342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus you can't write programs in it < 1305197226 72139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305197237 857499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a file format like befunge's would surely work? < 1305197250 247039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are strings in every cell < 1305197254 857807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd need to separate with tabs or something < 1305197265 346876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then, it'd look ugly in an editor if your strings were more than 7 chars long) < 1305197269 103622 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheres my finns :| < 1305197273 2452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 3 you mean :P < 1305197291 6958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually I suggest space separation, if you can write downright < 1305197294 632510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of down right < 1305197304 956669 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: What do you need a Finn for? < 1305197311 191194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't think you'd write out the words < 1305197312 740016 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: data collection < 1305197322 120276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ↓ and → < 1305197323 724589 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could use html < 1305197327 661038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1305197328 739747 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and use html tables for the cells < 1305197331 481708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have the benefit of being easy to type on my keyboard < 1305197334 378336 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i need some minor translations and judgements of grammaticality < 1305197334 473480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well space separation then. < 1305197335 539333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: that is an awful idea < 1305197343 228806 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's exactly why it should be done < 1305197348 235298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes ↓→ are easy, just altgr-u/i < 1305197348 586136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how would you distinguish an empty cell? < 1305197350 909973 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or better yet, excell spreadsheets < 1305197354 953805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: same combo as on here < 1305197371 901401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... maybe a symbol representing that? < 1305197380 91932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-, perhaps? < 1305197388 879671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, possibly < 1305197391 923765 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: excel spreadsheets can be output to TSV, you don't need to look at the intermediate code < 1305197399 302965 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not any symbol that isn't space, ↓ or → < 1305197403 845779 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Well, if it doesn't take long, I can provide some; though I'm not always so good at judging grammaticality. (Finnish is anyway quite flexible about some things, especially if you just apply some poetic license.) < 1305197406 777444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or enter < 1305197408 629308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1305197416 495726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so you can put a comment in a cell to mark it as empty? < 1305197422 252238 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you a native finnish speaker, or a second language speaker? < 1305197430 144721 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Native Finnish speaker, yes. < 1305197436 913269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, why not < 1305197440 985343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might work < 1305197451 85956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as long as there is no space in that comment of course < 1305197454 200716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I vaguely want to write a downright -> BF compiler now, it shouldn't be too hard < 1305197458 309304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since then it would be multiple cells < 1305197470 745476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although simplest to insist on coprime width/height < 1305197477 805962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I want to write a DownRight interpreter if you put up page on the wiki about it < 1305197485 668929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why do they need to be co-prime? < 1305197495 155250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as then you can use just one modulo operation to wrap both of them, rather than needing two < 1305197509 230190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1305197512 584890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1305197521 940069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say your program is 7 wide and 5 high < 1305197524 389018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305197535 144114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can map (x, y) to (5x + 7y) mod 35 < 1305197540 319569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it as an index to a lookup table < 1305197541 712565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean one integer to track the position, right < 1305197548 378515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then going down is adding 5, across is adding 7 < 1305197563 785749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right is adding 7 < 1305197574 410045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, solved too many crosswords? < 1305197585 670907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1305197641 974335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, why compile to bf? < 1305197650 796766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fun, not for any particular reason < 1305197653 123298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why esolang at all? < 1305197672 935740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1305197680 150435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not compile to feather? < 1305197690 102688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or intercal < 1305197708 956009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a) that would be uninteresting given the nature of Feather, b) I still don't really get how Feather works yet < 1305197716 528695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and INTERCAL generally makes a bad compilation target < 1305197725 436664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in what way < 1305197737 10718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to see a queue implemented in intercal < 1305197759 935034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplest way to do a queue in INTERCAL is two stacks < 1305197766 784351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1305197778 475602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pop from the first and push on the second; if you try to pop from the first and it's empty, you reverse the second stack onto the first and continue < 1305197789 841706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1305198611 391348 :jix_!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305198921 999769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1305200942 557686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/DownRight is on the wiki now, anyway < 1305201769 380112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm what happens with leading whitespaces on a line? < 1305201778 167014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to be defined < 1305201783 16652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the start of a program, it isn't < 1305201797 764363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at the start of a line I was considering < 1305201802 984159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere else, they end up as part of the whitespace that separated it from the line before < 1305201819 836297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's a string of whitespace containing at least one vertical whitespace character < 1305201820 940634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305201843 455424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw real comments will likely end up like this foo_bar_quux < 1305201848 170419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1305201848 444035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this:* < 1305201851 912152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe using dots < 1305201855 124080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1305201870 57672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about weird unicode spaces < 1305201890 139863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wouldn't be the first time esolangs had a bizarre comment syntax < 1305201897 712433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well indeed < 1305201898 849485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know < 1305201919 206568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, since when has Unicode support ever been consistent between implementations of a widely-implemented esolang? < 1305201921 797560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about a unicode zero width space, is that a whitespace or a comment? < 1305201939 791919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an official definition of what is and what isn't whitespace somewhere, though < 1305201957 176913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean, for esolangs, or in general? < 1305201969 731643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the official definition's in general < 1305201979 984768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305201981 159666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO? < 1305201988 145065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1305201992 280654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode Consortium, most likely < 1305202052 743052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at some point (not today) I might write a ↓→ compiler. Compiling to C probably, though dynamically growing queues in C sounds no fun < 1305202060 67269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also um, how would one observe the state < 1305202140 331015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, languages with output are nice in that it is easier to test them < 1305202143 972558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's just halt/nonhalt < 1305202148 526318 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1305202148 936145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's easy enough to do debug output < 1305202155 980223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could be halt-at-position < 1305202156 415253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just print the sequence of downs and rights as they're popped < 1305202166 151687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe coordinates too < 1305202169 136660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1305202206 3696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't see any way to optimise this language that isn't just evaluating it < 1305202283 762800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of static analysis? < 1305202308 945160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not sure how helpful it would be... < 1305202326 897832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what sort of thing you could extract from it < 1305202366 592576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some downs/rights you could statically prove to always move to blank cells < 1305202381 20457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could merge them into the downs/rights afterwards, as a sort of "move diagonally" or whatever < 1305202387 191948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I guess the best way to do a queue in C would be a single-linked list and keeping a pointer to the end element, blergh < 1305202393 936239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic memory allocation < 1305202395 521751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C < 1305202413 593826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the best way is to use a circular array and grow it if necessary, even if it means you have to copy the queue < 1305202428 611596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, but wouldn't that depend on where they came from before, to know what was already in the queue? < 1305202429 936333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has much better cache properties, stores more compactly in memory, and requires much fewer allocations < 1305202449 927901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305202458 879916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, more painful to work with, but sure < 1305202478 173570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'd write the compiler in a HLL though < 1305202565 888871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, after spending several hours translating an algorithm from Haskell into OCaml < 1305202581 678470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concluded that the major difference between the languages is that Haskell's standard library was better, or at least easier to memorise < 1305202604 86299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe you are just more used to haskell? < 1305202628 57015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc ocaml has a very good compiler btw < 1305202628 182242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's more that I had to write lambdas a lot more in OCaml < 1305202637 456575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305202643 971985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in Haskell, normally there was a handy combinator I could just use < 1305202650 927300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305203270 30634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this is utterly useless: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Golang < 1305203275 123002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too little information about it < 1305203294 923289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see the talkpage < 1305203305 376522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay now that made me more confused < 1305203373 502988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh is WireWorld TC? < 1305203381 352261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it has finite memory < 1305203389 601640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since the wires can't grow) < 1305203476 537716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is if you can have an infinite (and repeating) program < 1305203481 100594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305203497 468830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably most easily by making a Minsky machine < 1305203645 722070 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, at least my Google search puts the Esolang wiki "Minsky machine" article above the two Wikipedia results (titled "Register machine" and "Counter machine"). < 1305203720 689922 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-102.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305204151 569325 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1305204169 872721 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you override __builtin__.str on eval.appspot.com, you override it's front page. < 1305204221 670433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: presumably they didn't think that someone would do that < 1305204253 232931 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the front page was nyancat for a hile. < 1305204254 343734 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :while* < 1305204544 555331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, that is an empty page currently < 1305204572 587427 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, somebody broke shell.appspot.com which it redirects to. < 1305204666 951393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305205966 573403 :cheater666!~cheater22@ip-80-226-46-15.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305206699 997981 :cheater_!~cheater@p5099e3f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus why are macintoshes so annoyingly slow and inefficient < 1305206814 603745 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no offense but have you considered that you might just be really quick and efficient yourself? < 1305206834 656210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm? < 1305206857 437276 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: birds are really cute when scavenging for food < 1305206868 155438 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305206869 729375 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifting stuff up with their little beakies < 1305206877 529437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what kind of birds < 1305206885 63067 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh any kind i suppose < 1305206892 407447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, even large birds? < 1305206906 730569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those don't have small beaks after all < 1305206918 289401 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose just relatively small ones < 1305206933 673235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, do you consider something like a crow to be relatively small? < 1305206943 575540 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305206971 599515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, eagles? < 1305206978 392556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :swans? < 1305206998 13005 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :those might be pushing it < 1305207005 707330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ducks then? < 1305207016 26376 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305207025 78059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are smaller than swans certainly < 1305207038 290881 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ducks are relatively small too < 1305207234 997695 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just got the results from my last exam ever < 1305207237 425626 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yays < 1305207245 391080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305207261 995628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so you are done at university after this? < 1305207268 641025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what are you going to do then? < 1305207271 194592 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm still doing my phd < 1305207274 67476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305207282 147082 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else i finished months and months ago < 1305207289 320601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so why this exam? < 1305207294 8069 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for funsies < 1305207296 239937 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never again < 1305207297 753721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1305207303 490279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what is your PHd about? < 1305207313 144301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that was weird caps < 1305207313 278377 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue! :D < 1305207319 152634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, uh uh :P < 1305207383 354674 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a few fun open problems in cellular automata and finite state automata that would be fun to solve but they might not actually be very feasible < 1305207450 457275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, such as? < 1305207470 696743 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cerny's conjecture, if there's a synchronizing word for a DFA, then there's one of length O(n^2) < 1305207492 164982 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronizing word = from any state, you go to one particular state, when reading that word < 1305207493 878837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I see, what is a synchronizing word in this context? < 1305207497 623468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you beat me to it < 1305207522 72426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what is n in there? < 1305207526 470217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of states? < 1305207529 8006 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's relatively easy to show O(n^3), but that's all that's known < 1305207529 579882 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305207535 248486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305207535 678299 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oklofok < 1305207546 790425 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heys < 1305207552 173334 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows life < 1305207583 977803 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay, i haven't gotten a fix of mathoin for about a month now so if i don't get results soon i'll probably get depressed and die < 1305207590 598074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so that word has to be the same for any given state you are in hm < 1305207594 132766 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1305207599 238272 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1305207602 903853 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus synchronizing < 1305207609 629474 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you synchronize every state to one < 1305207623 172298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well you could do one that would go to a known state and then to the state you want, I guess that one would be O(n^3) though? < 1305207628 246819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1305207631 741745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work hm < 1305207659 603234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, interesting problem. How do you show the O(n^3) case? < 1305207661 696274 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: mathoin? < 1305207665 916947 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i get it < 1305207680 807874 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's the conjecture about periodic points in surjective CA, namely that they are "dense", that is, let G be a surjective CA, and let w be any word, then the conjecture says there's some (one-dimensional infinite) configuration x that contains w and is periodic in the sense that G^n(x) = x for some n > 0 < 1305207702 451515 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i wasn't sure fix was unambiguous enough so i had to do something like that < 1305207732 84789 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that just made it worse XD < 1305207744 23670 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: shut up :( < 1305207748 771831 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::x < 1305207756 132620 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I TRIED MY BEST < 1305207764 560955 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: erm let me think i haven't slept at all < 1305207769 171011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305207772 686246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, never ever? < 1305207780 208592 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so < 1305207780 685691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1305207794 348522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I can prove O(2^n) quite easily < 1305207804 841686 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1305207807 715602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's less than O(n^3) for small enough n < 1305207812 845413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1305207822 923321 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can do O(n^3) the same way, but you have to use a different modified graph < 1305207832 747375 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :called the pair graph < 1305207833 578300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yes, I was thinking along those lines < 1305207839 460027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you don't need all sets, just prime subsets < 1305207850 911084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1305207851 19774 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and in fact you don't need subsets < 1305207875 814961 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to try and extrapolate from "pair graph"? < 1305207885 633121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't < 1305207888 950820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy as I am, I think < 1305207899 976043 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since if you understand the powerset construction, then that's kinda obvious too < 1305207900 540903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I think about the problem seriously I'll hit the n^3 proof quite easily, I imagine < 1305207907 623139 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1305207969 657476 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the pair graph H constructed from G is, we have pairs of states as the new states, and (x, y) -> (z, w) in H with label a if x -> z and y -> w both with label a in G < 1305207988 49969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a concept stolen from category theory < 1305207990 64670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1305208000 920987 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :H is partitioned into the diagonal and... well, the rest < 1305208010 485157 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the diagonal is the vertices of the form (x, x) < 1305208024 357072 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, synchronizing two states means finding a path from outside the diagonal to the diagonal < 1305208079 350430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1305208095 476220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think wlog we can assume the transition graph is strongly connected < 1305208108 379321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wlog? < 1305208110 966055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if it isn't, you can work on each half of the problem separately < 1305208113 210763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without loss of generality < 1305208115 592426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305208126 861680 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1305208130 328425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that the result if you assume something also applies to the situation where you don't, just with terms reversed or something like that < 1305208135 308101 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the graph is strongly connected, the result is obviously untrue < 1305208142 14096 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that was implicitly assumed < 1305208142 416407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1305208156 52377 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think it isn't, you misunderstood the problem < 1305208162 249799 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1305208163 85875 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stronly < 1305208165 954397 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*strongly < 1305208166 812501 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1305208167 297317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say each state transitions to each other state, with a label depending on what it aims to < 1305208180 41530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you think I'd said? < 1305208185 450896 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just missed strongly < 1305208189 317550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1305208194 890076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make quite a difference < 1305208199 239735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yet you typed it? < 1305208205 567972 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not needed in the proof anyway < 1305208219 416962 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well i didn't miss the actual word < 1305208220 559982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it isn't, just thought that it might be interesting aiming for a different sort of proof < 1305208226 177636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I see < 1305208232 774122 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh you got the proof already? < 1305208242 542283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm just brainstorming < 1305208251 711445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1305208268 707616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when aiming for a proof, I aim to come up with relevant-looking lemmas and conjectures first < 1305208269 405152 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you just note that n^2 steps is enough to unify *some* two vertices in case there exists a synchronizing word < 1305208273 40864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I can't see why they'd matter < 1305208283 910852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oh, for the n^3, that's easy enough to work out < 1305208297 306001 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if there's a synchronizing word, there will have to be a path from outside the diagonal to the diagonal in H, so there must be one of length at most n^2 < 1305208306 729945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1305208315 826668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, n(n-1), but that's the same thing because we're messing with big-O notation < 1305208316 523381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, can there exist a synchronizing word for one target state but not for another in a graph? < 1305208324 679678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: really easily < 1305208332 56123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm okay < 1305208335 769801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1305208335 850889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a state machine with two states, and one letter in the input alphabet < 1305208346 374774 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not in a strongly connected graph, otherwise sure < 1305208346 586831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only four such machines, two of them have that property < 1305208348 117055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I see A->B but no other one < 1305208361 108810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no other connection that is) < 1305208365 475225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I should have eaten lunch hours ago < 1305208366 759368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll do that now < 1305208368 739760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1305208373 815681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305208406 578101 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow so as i said, n^3 is sort of trivial, but it seems clear that n^2 is actually enough < 1305208422 765649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, but you don't have a proof for it? < 1305208428 444164 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for n^2? < 1305208431 93873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1305208443 147921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do, write your phd on that :P < 1305208444 556963 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think i scribbled that in my solution to the riemann hypothesis notes < 1305208466 873350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ah, like in the margin saying the margin was too small to contain that proof as well? ;P < 1305208506 455941 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i managed to fit the whole proof, there was just enough space between my one-liner solution to the 4-color conjecture and my proof of god < 1305208522 433758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1305208557 406782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, did you have a go at the Church–Turing thesis too? < 1305208570 352731 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i considered it obvious enough, like the rest of the world < 1305208573 56338 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1305208586 750370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, it isn't actually proven though < 1305208593 751985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1305208667 216125 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL CAN ANYTHING REALLY EVERY BE PROVEN? < 1305208673 673654 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :every. < 1305208681 585714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, that is philosophy I think, not math < 1305208755 928851 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this thesis that topological limits are the true definition of approaching < 1305208791 397420 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me demonstrate: if i have a point that goes towards another point, then we can put some open sets around one of them and, well, the rest is history < 1305208804 545826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, eh < 1305208811 978320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know next to nothing about topology < 1305208827 766985 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well it was a stupid joke anyway < 1305208844 398300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that topologists likes to drink coffee from doughnuts ;P < 1305208847 63317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like* < 1305208981 531610 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and cut off penises < 1305209015 660775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh :P < 1305210325 494317 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :4b2o$2o2bobo$o5bo$b5o$3bo! < 1305210329 385920 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in case anyone was wondering. < 1305210728 732378 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305210797 486774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, what is that? < 1305211326 797865 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :A still life. < 1305211347 771346 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen it before and it doesn't seem to have a LifeWiki article, probably because it's not notable. < 1305211381 91769 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Mark Niemiec discovered it, if nobody else did before him.. < 1305211383 80413 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.././ < 1305211797 384752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, oh it is a GOL thingy < 1305211801 996431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, how does one read it < 1305211898 946677 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :First line: four dead, two live. Next line: two live, two dead, live, dead, live. Next line: live, five dead, live. Next line: dead, five ilve. Next line: five dead, live. End. < 1305211936 560648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1305212828 959470 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305213109 314725 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the appeal of ooc? It mystifies me that BitBucket includes it in its dropdown to select "what language is this project written in". While there is no mention of, say, Pure or Felix. < 1305213335 857070 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course BitBucket's search sucks so badly that I have no real idea how many projects there *are* written in ooc... I only see one that mentions ooc in its description, and it's one of those "learn you this language" tutorials. < 1305213340 680910 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1305213357 487768 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it's not even ooc :/ It's a tutorial on "Object-Oriented C" < 1305213573 313259 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it crashed my browser < 1305213851 980606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1305213903 711534 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it bit my sister, once < 1305213928 426511 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mind boggles at ais523 managing to get the Unparseable spec to approach self-consistency < 1305213951 17711 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't even assuming it was a design goal at this point < 1305214016 483451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm still not convinced it's anywhere near self-consistent < 1305214026 931805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but atm, I'm beginning to think of it as a constraint solving puzzle < 1305214039 263513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :find at least one execution path that doesn't break any of the rules < 1305214056 629158 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1305214094 879144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not yet sure if there's a program with multiple consistent interpretations < 1305214101 226673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if the inventor of Feather cannot make it, no one can < 1305214134 23041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I haven't invented Feather yet < 1305214153 886349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I may need access to clog's hard-drive so I can retroactively change the previous line if necessary) < 1305214253 463217 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1305214289 939364 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's reminder of how I'm pretty low on the pecking order of the world: "I am contacting you regarding your reservation in our hotel, we have a problem with your reservation. This problem ocured because of unexpected increasing of rooms in one group we are accommodating in the period of your reservation and we are not able to break this group. Therefore we have to move your reservation to another hotel in Prague, --" < 1305214334 93822 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the logic here goes "big group == large amount of money for the hotel == more important". < 1305214465 104965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /me acts on advice honed over years on the Internet: if you're going to reply to someone you agree with, tell them you do, or they're going to assume you're arguing with them < 1305214589 89985 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305214655 126669 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on the network, it's a good idea to be strict in what you provide < 1305214681 193840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: heh, are you trying to make this into something that's amusing just because it's said so often? < 1305214714 287952 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was riffing on what I told you yesterday, re your   spambot < 1305214741 880210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1305214756 34600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being strictish in what you accept is a good way to keep out spambots, actually < 1305214759 927395 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305215591 47928 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t tree < 1305215591 655960 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `tree' < 1305215597 58621 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle tree < 1305215597 214558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Data.Graph.Inductive.Tree < 1305215597 296541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Data.Tree < 1305215597 296701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Tree data Tree a < 1305215612 538458 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Tree < 1305215613 189826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Tree' < 1305215616 208105 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Node < 1305215616 822234 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> Forest a -> Tree a < 1305215647 97526 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let n = Tree [n,n] in n < 1305215647 775522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Tree' < 1305215654 233843 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let n = Node [n,n] in n < 1305215654 883234 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: < 1305215654 964507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : t = Data.Tree.Forest [... < 1305215666 382922 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1305215674 2259 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1305215700 366305 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me the bot can't see the Forest for the Trees. < 1305215702 266013 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let n = Node () [n,n] in n < 1305215703 17057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Node {rootLabel = (), subForest = [Node {rootLabel = (), subForest = [Node ... < 1305215750 917432 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = [x] in x < 1305215751 513238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = [t] < 1305215817 868784 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t [x] < 1305215818 489486 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Expr] < 1305215823 740379 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1305215824 751349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, if the trees are dense enough, you can't see if they're an isolated thicket, or if there's an entire forest behind them < 1305215844 461687 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t x < 1305215845 69530 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1305215848 885492 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1305215870 821429 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t m < 1305215871 460312 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1305215877 764833 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mzgbd < 1305215878 375809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `mzgbd' < 1305215893 608564 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let mzgbd = [mzgbd] in mzgbd < 1305215902 772907 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let mzgbd = [mzgbd] in mzgbd < 1305215903 404949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = [t] < 1305215916 521817 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least it's not shadowing anything, am i right? < 1305215922 786193 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305215949 984063 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists cannot recurse into their heads, only their tails < 1305215960 922325 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was working on that angle < 1305215964 877918 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my HEAD < 1305216014 35909 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let mzgbd = (():mzgbd) in mzgbd < 1305216014 671899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()... < 1305216038 769919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Compiler.find_connected_components_from_edge_inner ;; < 1305216040 83938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : - : 'a -> ('a * 'a) list -> int -> 'a list -> 'a list -> ('a * int) list -> 'a list list -> 'a list -> ('a * 'a list) list -> 'a list list = < 1305216061 726090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, I seem to do stateful algorithms by passing all the components around by hand, rather than using monads or variables < 1305216076 453793 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that too < 1305216091 525752 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :habit from when I learned Erlang, in my case < 1305216147 835305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> :t findConnectedComponents'' < 1305216148 533267 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually I get like "all these arguments are being passed everywhere and they always appear together -- let's make this a record" < 1305216149 184833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :findConnectedComponents'' :: (Eq a, Ord b, Num b) => a -> [(a, a)] -> b -> [a] -> [a] -> [(a, b)] -> [[a]] -> [a] -> (b, [a], [a], [(a, b)], [[a]]) < 1305216151 376526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it in Haskell too < 1305216170 325448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OCaml version was written more recently, though, and I rewrote it in CPS, which made it quite a bit simpler < 1305216177 177666 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've every written something with *that* type < 1305216179 802511 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ever < 1305216204 229699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the ('a * 'a list) list-typed argument in the OCaml version is actually a manually maintained call stack) < 1305216223 791984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the "all these arguments are being passed everywhere" thing didn't really come up, as it was just one thicket of functions < 1305216265 822600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, a manually maintained continuation stack, but I made "continuations-by-reference" by hand, because it was less insane than trying to do it automatically) < 1305216376 996145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major advantage of Haskell over OCaml is its standard library, IMO < 1305216387 594610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much more relevant than the whole laziness and purity arguments < 1305216394 608908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unique < 1305216395 228007 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `unique' < 1305216398 597798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305216404 789437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that isn't in the library after all? < 1305216406 920162 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't know if I agree with that < 1305216420 641791 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my use case for Haskell is probably not typical < 1305216420 736799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed, I wrote it by hand < 1305216432 284332 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle unique < 1305216432 398944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Data.Unique < 1305216432 480241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Unique data Unique < 1305216432 480391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Unique hashUnique :: Unique -> Int < 1305216442 293159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I even wrote member by hand, but I think mostly because I didn't know what it was called < 1305216448 691741 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty nub < 1305216449 323739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Eq a) => [a] -> [a] < 1305216450 952436 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty elem < 1305216451 614397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Eq a) => a -> [a] -> Bool < 1305216474 529580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wanted something that deleted all items from a list that were the same as items that had occured previously in the list < 1305216480 62103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> [a] < 1305216480 189159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude cycle :: [a] -> [a] < 1305216480 271023 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude init :: [a] -> [a] < 1305216480 353063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude reverse :: [a] -> [a] < 1305216483 360946 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nub < 1305216490 432585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah, is that what it's called? < 1305216491 169423 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nub indeed < 1305216494 418019 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically write my own map functions in Haskell < 1305216510 307469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nub [1,2,1,4,3,1,5,2,4,3,1,2,5,4,3] < 1305216510 954604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,4,3,5] < 1305216512 372576 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty map head . sort . group < 1305216513 13579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ord a) => [a] -> [a] < 1305216522 158852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other thing that catches me out a lot is that OCaml uses ; not , as a list separator < 1305216526 949371 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, group . sort < 1305216534 898644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that [1,2] is perfectly legal, and means [(1,2)] < 1305216544 768005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a one-element list of tuples < 1305216561 897518 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you should be aware that many of haskell's list functions have optimization rules < 1305216567 507064 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ML's syntax does not appeal to me < 1305216587 598522 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er - I misspoke previously < 1305216595 548899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other thing I find myself doing a lot is having computations which are clearly monad-based, but as I'm in OCaml, doing it by hand using the definitions from the List monad < 1305216611 122637 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically define my own mapping data structures in Haskell < 1305216614 954055 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1305216636 581177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I tend to define fmap for my own structures if it fits < 1305216641 7254 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "Cafeteria See Your Food" < 1305216661 298451 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : in fact, I even wrote member by hand, but I think mostly because I didn't know what it was called <-- sounds like you really need to learn to use hoogle :D < 1305216670 165958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that only works when online < 1305216673 823464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically don't program when online < 1305216678 270180 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1305216683 951729 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t member < 1305216684 594812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `member' < 1305216697 426236 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle member < 1305216697 525635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap member :: Key -> IntMap a -> Bool < 1305216697 609479 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntSet member :: Int -> IntSet -> Bool < 1305216697 691742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Map member :: Ord k => k -> Map k a -> Bool < 1305216703 673208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, all this work on compilers I've been doing recently (that's where the scary type signature from above comes from) has lead to an esolang idea < 1305216745 857779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically taking dependent typing to the extreme, and hoping the resulting language is TC adding nothing extra but a combined lambda/switch statement < 1305216758 606683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear it may even end up computable < 1305216763 75898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*uncomputable < 1305216785 360906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, more likely, the language itself TC, but the type system uncomputable < 1305216787 965361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would just be bizarre < 1305216852 187102 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind of all dependent types which are provably finite < 1305216856 707754 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1305216863 246429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Functor t => FunctorM t where < 1305216864 566048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fmapM :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> (t a) -> m (t b) < 1305216869 432789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to figure out why I wrote that < 1305216875 253193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I needed to cross fmap and mapM < 1305216878 838887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the library didn't obviously have it < 1305216881 658839 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems most of the research in type systems is to find type systems which are *decidable*, so finding ones that are undecidable probably is not difficult < 1305216888 724108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Monad m => (a -> m b) -> (t a) -> m (t b) < 1305216888 974163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable mapM :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b) < 1305216889 56182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable forM :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => t a -> (a -> m b) -> m (t b) < 1305216889 138173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude mapM :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b] < 1305216917 499851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like I was reinventing Data.Traversable < 1305216940 131983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, on the obvious basis that functors don't have to have a natural order < 1305216965 83769 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :always repeat yourself always repeat yourself < 1305216977 285082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't be added to Functor generally, even though it would be useful < 1305216989 285101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I read an actual paper about monads in the mathematical sense < 1305216993 966714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was surprisingly like Haskell < 1305217086 466184 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :purity is useful if you want your program to be math < 1305217154 782850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1305217180 727358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not always, some mathematical algorithms are described in terms of inherently imperative ideas < 1305217187 425206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the one above, which uses two stacks < 1305217192 348534 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think INTERCAL is the only program which has scopes that work like that, and it doesn't use indentation for scoping < 1305217207 793419 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think SML has that local ... in ... thing which might fit < 1305217214 27075 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still not indented) < 1305217223 157000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a bit ridiculous that I even need an algorithm to find strongly connected components in a directed graph in a compiler...) < 1305217233 999522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, INTERCAL's scoping rules are different < 1305217235 460476 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait is that backwards < 1305217249 436104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misunderstood < 1305217261 143236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule with INTERCAL, is that the scopes of different variables don't have to nest well, or indeed have any relation to each other < 1305217308 557190 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean with STASH etc.? < 1305217331 625565 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's not lexical < 1305217381 325276 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"inherently imperative"? I dunno about that concept... < 1305217390 517663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it's technically a form of dynamic scoping < 1305217447 461048 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and barely that, since you don't have to leave the scope in a consistent place even for a single variable iirc < 1305217473 967917 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be used that way < 1305217597 900954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it doesn't enforce well-nesting < 1305217606 523719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see why that's intrinsically necessary for dynamic scoping < 1305217608 225976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a good idea < 1305217768 986037 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see a filesystem where entire subtrees could be made read-only atomically < 1305217785 102299 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would help me feel better about "sudo make install" < 1305217846 567945 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, even then, there's usually a collection of files spread out across the system, like the binary in bin, and conf files in etc < 1305217855 972316 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305217861 425805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use fakeroot or something < 1305217898 914734 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hm downright might be a good language for your java suite < 1305217925 186619 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually install stuff into my home dir, but there's always these silly projects that expect their dependencies in a 'systemwide' place < 1305217963 913243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally install stuff in a dir parallel to the build < 1305217964 803588 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: link? also, it's too late: it's already in java :) < 1305217984 68905 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the next step is to release the source < 1305217991 214149 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let people tear it apart cruelly < 1305217998 157017 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1305218000 276438 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: um downright is ais523's latest 2d-and-some esolang < 1305218004 390555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://esolangs.org/wiki/DownRight < 1305218010 550557 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oh ok' < 1305218013 922646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan was suggesting implementing DownRight in the suite, not the suite in DownRight < 1305218028 346149 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought this was some new "JVM language" that yoob could be reimplemented in. gotcha < 1305218029 672050 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1305218047 87025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never written a JVM-based language < 1305218196 469777 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoiks. ok... < 1305218268 571424 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, "matrix of strings" is a little bit of a stretch for yoob's UI, but since they don't change, that makes it easier < 1305218565 266805 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklofok, even large birds? < 1305218586 163025 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your discussion has a disturbing lack of vultures < 1305218846 294090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but they are cute! < 1305218861 577941 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely! < 1305219203 519084 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsoderrick puggammin laggages < 1305219290 576338 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand sometimes Data.Map is just what I need because I am teh lazy < 1305219305 563048 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Data.Map is not lazy! < 1305219309 755925 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strict in the spine < 1305219357 877909 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because I am teh GOLDBRICKERS < 1305219654 661817 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell, a malingering functional language" < 1305219709 868734 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your ma is lingering < 1305219767 375896 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re maps: although, I do tend to write recursive functions which consume a list, over using folds, too.) < 1305219796 801960 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Conquest, War, Famine, Death and Herring Pasta | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1305219809 125635 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... i don't care about efficiency. i care about a certain kind of readabilty. < 1305219814 470052 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a very disturbing pasta < 1305219831 439706 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is a sign of the apocalypse. < 1305219832 412671 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :using map, foldlrlr and such detract from the readability, because you have to know what all those li'l bastards do < 1305219910 181657 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ironistical, since they're supposed to in fact add to the readability, precisely because you then immediately know what they actually do. < 1305219933 146428 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unique < 1305219933 799138 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `unique' < 1305219979 764870 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nolo contendere < 1305219990 946979 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what do you want? < 1305220006 569516 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pony < 1305220007 746442 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already established there is no function by that name < 1305220022 33308 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just a demonstration < 1305220049 533250 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that nub was what was originally intended by it < 1305220077 190771 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... do I really have to explain my choreography? < 1305220146 725240 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t no < 1305220147 376405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `no' < 1305220157 273386 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldlololololr < 1305221873 551117 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :War, Famine, Pasta-lence and Death < 1305221909 52052 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Pasta-lents < 1305224171 836738 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1305224262 611371 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1305226007 337982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : in fact, I even wrote member by hand, but I think mostly because I didn't know what it was called <-- sounds like you really need to learn to use hoogle :D < 1305226007 458506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: that only works when online < 1305226008 923617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I typically don't program when online < 1305226011 31692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal install hoogle < 1305226151 143187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : using map, foldlrlr and such detract from the readability, because you have to know what all those li'l bastards do < 1305226154 210048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more readable than recursion. < 1305226201 207152 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping < 1305226219 406462 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ping < 1305226224 326255 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion versus vocabulary, i guess < 1305226294 96809 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnop < 1305226333 907508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: recursion is low-level, like goto :) < 1305226339 537956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for loops < 1305226342 583657 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to understand vocabulary you just have to understand vocabulary, while to understand recursion you first have to understand recursion < 1305226439 987990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm, I typically work out which of foldl and foldr I need by experiment < 1305226442 679834 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't change < 1305226477 164314 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Type system: The type system is formally an enhanced version of the typed lambda calculus plus pattern matching." < 1305226481 998452 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because -- why pretend < 1305226530 46894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend what < 1305226542 315712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if the operation is associative, then you just use foldr if you need to handle infinite lists :P < 1305226558 320144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess ocaml forbids you from having those ;D < 1305226561 638250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is in OCaml < 1305226711 198193 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I don't know, because there is no such thing as "*the* typed lambda calculus" from what I see < 1305226746 673056 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I meant "why pretend your type system is anything except another programming language" < 1305226818 802216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who pretends that? < 1305226824 314972 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is "the simply typed lambda calculus" < 1305226849 587987 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a typed lambda calculus for any adjective. < 1305226854 136561 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*adverb < 1305226857 954200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the regular lambda calculus is a bad language for a type system < 1305226860 31994 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a heap of extensions < 1305226891 111610 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305226893 481311 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they probably meant "simply" but left it out < 1305226912 222892 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows. i can't clone their git repo off github using their instructions. < 1305226935 860086 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could also mean hindley/damas-milner < 1305226949 290822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :old git version? < 1305226976 232678 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, their instructions are wack < 1305226995 433257 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :github has ones thatw ork < 1305227009 640046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1305227031 511371 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :felix < 1305227044 121260 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make you run git submodule commands in order to build it! < 1305227049 608909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes? < 1305227063 464659 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need Python 3 < 1305227066 69529 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fanTAStic < 1305227135 948769 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND OCAML! < 1305227166 806494 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Also, its not that the execution is meaningful up to the point where undefined behavior happens: the bad effects can actually precede the undefined operation." < 1305227174 706670 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1305227205 961730 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my kind of execution model < 1305227214 978636 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use undefined behavior, the program may prevent the big bang from happening! < 1305227235 953790 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn < 1305227249 905524 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously Gregor doesn't like that < 1305227259 40426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why is that quote surprising < 1305227285 305583 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1305227313 300464 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do bad effects precede the undefined operation? Is that just a theoretical idea, or can it actually happen in real implementations? < 1305227325 120531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Consider optimisations. < 1305227340 993990 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1305227384 479237 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a miracle that the universe has survived the invention of C, really < 1305227787 590353 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I should probably implement an esolang in such a way that it requires both Pure and Felix to be installed, in order to build. < 1305227821 353434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :build system in felix, testing system in pure < 1305227835 69422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the tests mandatory somehow < 1305228029 481688 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many pathological perversions, so little time. < 1305228032 458553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[For example a C implementation has undefined behavior when: < 1305228032 690552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : An unmatched ‘ or ” character is encountered on a logical source line during tokenization.]] < 1305228035 223400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1305228041 768834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta make that into a feature somehow < 1305228063 256377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you can use ' in names, but only if you don't use character constants on the same line, and as long as you have an odd number of 's" < 1305228077 133033 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C compiler that starts interpreting the file as iag source after that point < 1305228338 705255 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use of an uninitialized variable: This is commonly known as source of problems in C programs and there are many tools to catch these: from compiler warnings to static and dynamic analyzers. This improves performance by not requiring that all variables be zero initialized when they come into scope (as Java does). For most scalar variables, this would cause little overhead, but stack arrays and malloc'd memory would incur a memset of the stora < 1305228338 842889 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ge, which could be quite costly, particularly since the storage is usually completely overwritten." < 1305228375 674081 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another solution: Make the language simply fail to compile if there's an unini... well, C can't be modified that way that easily, I guess < 1305228392 323525 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/language/file/ < 1305228397 614182 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Werror -Wno-uninitialized-somethingth < 1305228413 921827 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure gcc can do that < 1305228446 711115 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well, that's a compile-time cost, not a runtime cost, so why not have the standard do that? < 1305228467 824609 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can stil get around it < 1305228514 826842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (never_true) x = 9; < 1305228515 760616 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ int a; if (/* ...*/) { a = 0; } printf("%s", a); } < 1305228515 889593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :return x; < 1305228519 861261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1305228565 462793 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oh, man, shaving off that instruction to zero out a when it wasn't really necessary < 1305228570 162495 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MUST OPTOMIZE < 1305228584 708355 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one instruction TOOK TIME that you'll NEVER HAVE BACK < 1305228590 258585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://getsatisfaction.com/mojang/topics/minecraft_is_not_written_in_terse < 1305228634 588055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:04:10: Vorpal: Well, that was most of the story already, though I also did patch ircii to say "PING? PONG!" whenever the server pinged, so I could choose to do the disconnection immediately after a previous ping. < 1305228641 792524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could ping the server instead; that works at least on freenode. < 1305228671 561113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so this was in the 90s but STILL. < 1305228721 453077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, sending anything at all works on Freenode < 1305228730 438410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not certain that other ircds work like that < 1305228809 278976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1305228875 609576 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1305228951 122589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was reading this article about undefined behaviour again (it's old, and may have been mentioned here before: http://blog.regehr.org/archives/213) < 1305228958 373070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then noticed the first post was by Michael Norrish < 1305228961 368843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a little surprising < 1305228994 328346 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305229096 273658 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if anyone understands the GCC build system < 1305229209 381865 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH DEAR GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE < 1305229229 904197 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that pikhq is it... < 1305229239 65374 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, GCC's build system. < 1305229242 314105 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL IT WITH FIRE < 1305229272 469641 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what asdf is like < 1305229297 720678 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"asdf" refers to something beyond slapping a keyboard in disgust? < 1305229314 245734 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1305229324 956425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I vaguely understand some of it < 1305229337 898662 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It definitely needs replaced. < 1305229340 925065 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ < 1305229343 211009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my only method of tweaking it was to run it halfway through, then run a Perl script over some generated files, then complete it < 1305229358 140117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also gave me a huge catalogue of things to avoid when writing C-INTERCAL's, which solves much the same problem a lot better < 1305229381 938825 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glibc's is perhaps worse. < 1305229382 641059 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1305229384 519633 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is roughly what Common Lisp hackers use to build software where C hackers would use say GNU Make. " < 1305229422 784724 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc uses hand-written recursive Make. < 1305229424 767309 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With autoconf. < 1305229476 438327 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, is that very quotable for you? < 1305229479 375107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, asdf < 1305229480 42984 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf < 1305229482 724770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's a terrible analogy < 1305229487 937417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually more like a package manager and module system combined < 1305229494 781966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a build system < 1305229497 975645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1305229500 86389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of complicated < 1305229501 642180 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as its hackers using it < 1305229602 157516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to wonder about "another". Was there an earlier system in use before asdf took hold, or was there competition like OO systems for Scheme? < 1305229622 62553 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember: friends don't let friends recursive make. < 1305229644 747806 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a beautiful esolang here but it doesn't work because two-dimensional space doesn't have the properties i need or something < 1305229686 459479 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not true < 1305229693 295036 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need to twist my head more < 1305229727 812046 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey's head exploding in 1, 2, ... < 1305229882 940852 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reverses the clock battery < 1305229899 79251 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey's head exploding in 3, 2, ... < 1305229955 393664 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicken or Racket? < 1305229961 204274 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know how to decide < 1305230065 935835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you trying to lay an egg or hit a tennis ball? < 1305230102 468838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1305230162 858845 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously one of his evil schemes < 1305230199 815216 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be even eviller if it required both < 1305230226 111743 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION calls up the SPCA < 1305230349 872743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken tennis < 1305230362 871967 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original badminton < 1305230395 404469 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is surprisingly difficult to find an up-to-date comparison of various Schemes < 1305230425 911838 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: gatherer.wizards.com < 1305230443 496941 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did see one table, but considering that it had TCO as a column, I can only assume it's older than dirt) < 1305230463 764749 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am teh confused < 1305230477 147864 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, took me a minute to remember that Scheme is ... something to do wiith MtG < 1305230491 206479 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, it's a special card type? For use in certain formats, or what? < 1305230529 554418 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for use in an official multiplayer variant < 1305230555 109379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1305230583 12329 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I'm right in assuming I had no school today < 1305230613 329769 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a new Scheme / One that won't make me sick / One that won't make me crash my cdr / Or make me feel three feet thick < 1305230655 894874 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no rplacd, check < 1305230676 886810 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where oes the name rplacd come from, anyway? < 1305230688 759525 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At any rate, I think CLers these days just use setf instead < 1305230694 472145 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's CL < 1305230718 822184 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*set-cdr! < 1305230729 96620 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what are you looking for in a Scheme? < 1305230739 434402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: replace c[d]r < 1305230751 806724 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to look for one that runs Scheme programs, in which case, just about any of them work < 1305230786 263769 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can be used to compile, or for long-running programs that can be modified while they're running. Nice FFI < 1305230795 657860 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiii < 1305230803 617469 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf is not an ffi. < 1305230818 15243 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1305230834 707944 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is ajf an asdf, i bet < 1305230843 593327 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a qwertyuiop < 1305230928 938339 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but poiuy_qwert might be, if he were here < 1305230944 425076 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS POSSIBLE < 1305230964 162364 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305230971 313866 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a new esoteric language < 1305230988 844671 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas from the ideas list that appeal to any of you particularly? < 1305230998 92756 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1305231021 394175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c float a=0.0f; printf("%2x%2x%2x%2x", ((char*)a)[0], ((char*)a)[1], ((char*)a)[2], ((char*)a)[3]); < 1305231024 804732 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231032 131021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) {float a=0.0f; printf("%2x%2x%2x%2x", ((char*)a)[0], ((char*)a)[1], ((char*)a)[2], ((char*)a)[3]);} < 1305231033 361821 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231041 125302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I done wrong there? < 1305231043 676080 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie you here < 1305231046 439788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, missing an & < 1305231055 735904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) {float a=0.0f; printf("%2x%2x%2x%2x", ((char*)&a)[0], ((char*)&a)[1], ((char*)&a)[2], ((char*)&a)[3]);} < 1305231067 552187 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { printf("Hello world!"); return 0; } < 1305231105 82049 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1305231108 683010 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a C bot here? < 1305231108 819922 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c asdf < 1305231109 921800 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231115 487154 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1305231120 807669 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I should make a devperc bot < 1305231122 315779 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is distressing < 1305231123 944779 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1305231149 131804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it just checks if C compiles or not < 1305231155 137060 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1305231157 388244 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boo < 1305231158 435779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) {float a=0.0f; printf("%2x%2x%2x%2x\n", ((char*)&a)[0], ((char*)&a)[1], ((char*)&a)[2], ((char*)&a)[3]);} < 1305231164 197413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I was just describing its apparent behaviour < 1305231168 775093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm adding a \n because stdio caching < 1305231189 379238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't seem to help either < 1305231193 603738 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { printf("Is it legal to leave off the return like that?\n"); return 0; } < 1305231199 843768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is in C99 < 1305231200 995293 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("EGOBOT IS A FATTY FATTY FAT FAT"); < 1305231202 812060 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​EGOBOT IS A FATTY FATTY FAT FAT < 1305231204 100067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only from main < 1305231207 921851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no int main() stuff? < 1305231208 400015 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you have rather uncompromising requirements. I don't know if you'll find a Scheme with all three of those. < 1305231214 895417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c float a=0.0f; printf("%2x%2x%2x%2x\n", ((char*)&a)[0], ((char*)&a)[1], ((char*)&a)[2], ((char*)&a)[3]); < 1305231216 779204 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​0 0 0 0 < 1305231223 556547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so 0.0f /is/ all-bits-zero? < 1305231225 586366 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I think both Chicken and Racket fit. < 1305231234 904615 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c parse_brainfuck("?"); < 1305231236 787135 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231249 169765 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you EgoBot y u no support brainfuck < 1305231258 588542 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more brainfuck < 1305231260 673634 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1305231261 818722 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[.+] < 1305231262 63357 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​........ < 1305231262 856462 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket (/MzScheme) apparently has OK FFI, but I didn't know it even had a compiler < 1305231268 946540 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1305231271 30255 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305231275 81202 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [] < 1305231286 197706 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicken is reputedly a fine compiler, but I don't know anything about its FFI < 1305231289 628251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, um, well, at least there's a "Make Executable" option in DrRacket < 1305231318 588694 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [.>] < 1305231320 700759 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Make Executable" doesn't necessarily compile any code -- it can just link an interpreter together with the source < 1305231341 499001 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know if that's what Racket does, but for other languages, that's the case < 1305231350 173505 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [.+] < 1305231361 555375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think it just checks if C compiles or not < 1305231362 319283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1305231363 370299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs it. < 1305231374 899505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c puts("asdkjaf"); < 1305231375 674109 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-] < 1305231375 986769 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Hello < 1305231376 132218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was remarking on the fact that nobody had got anything to happen but compile errors < 1305231376 846029 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​asdkjaf < 1305231379 134086 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+. < 1305231385 52523 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1305231391 274150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah, no int main() stuff? < 1305231392 450884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that < 1305231394 789824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why it isn't working < 1305231410 315731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's checking for "int main()" literally, and I put (void) in the parens out of correctnes < 1305231411 887206 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [+]. < 1305231433 866658 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main() { printf("Checking ais523's hypothesis\n"); return 0; } < 1305231435 867746 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Checking ais523's hypothesis < 1305231446 232431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not correctness < 1305231450 382261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are identical in a definition < 1305231457 264654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in ANSI C /declarations/ that they differ < 1305231461 302367 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { printf("Checking ais523's hypothesis\n"); return 0; } < 1305231463 586217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and () is still perfectly valid, it just means something subtly different < 1305231464 619186 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^just in case < 1305231469 128717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can change the calling convention < 1305231479 729822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1305231508 468635 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c void main() { printf("Wouldn't it be funny if it allowed this?\n"); } < 1305231523 797399 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww < 1305231527 90090 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\134ACTION hates all of you"); < 1305231529 56947 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ACTION hates all of you < 1305231539 323921 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", sizeof void); < 1305231540 552020 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231549 122233 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", sizeof int); < 1305231550 283168 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231558 133689 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my C that rusty? < 1305231565 659895 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", sizeof(void*)); < 1305231566 743330 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​8 < 1305231581 684703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you need parens around the name of a type < 1305231582 235638 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", sizeof(int)); < 1305231583 262172 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", sizeof(int)); < 1305231584 119668 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​4 < 1305231585 85470 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​4 < 1305231585 663234 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\001ACTION hates all of you"); < 1305231587 564465 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.ACTION hates all of you < 1305231587 661470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: you need parens around the name of a type < 1305231588 767265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies < 1305231593 362598 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\1ACTION hates all of you"); < 1305231594 992812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: inside sizeof, at least < 1305231595 287099 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.ACTION hates all of you < 1305231597 817484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305231601 807513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is it just "sizeof x" that's valid < 1305231605 869767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has to be "sizeof (int)"? < 1305231607 257610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really weird < 1305231607 898477 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%cACTION hates all of you",1); < 1305231609 906530 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.ACTION hates all of you < 1305231610 223536 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so stupid < 1305231615 937976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", sizeof 0); < 1305231616 130028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\u0001ACTION hates all of you"); < 1305231617 230668 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231618 1883 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​4 < 1305231625 360165 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are a handful of things in C that are that stupid, so, ok < 1305231629 83110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder what's wrong with my \u there? < 1305231637 634123 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("\001ACTION hates all of you\001",1); < 1305231639 562117 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.ACTION hates all of you. < 1305231639 736899 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int x; printf("%d", sizeof x); < 1305231641 580749 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​4 < 1305231650 351170 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot y u no allow "\u0001" < 1305231664 659958 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\001 shouldn't be turning into . unless EgoBot's deliberately filtering output, I think < 1305231665 704028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using that fucking meme < 1305231667 719653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +. < 1305231668 58712 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​. < 1305231673 471311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is deliberately filtering it < 1305231678 639994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS have you been asleep the past forever days < 1305231680 53761 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c putchar(1); printf("ACTION hates all of you"); putchar(1); < 1305231681 810674 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.ACTION hates all of you. < 1305231686 473165 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff < 1305231691 306828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had to do it? < 1305231691 740753 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf, it won't work < 1305231695 71864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you all dense X_X < 1305231698 86857 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1305231701 945981 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1305231719 482717 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not dense! < 1305231728 131037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int a\u2C22a = 4; printf("%d\n", a\u2C22a); < 1305231729 308807 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231736 787199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: do you not even support C94? < 1305231747 365220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1305231752 97043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gnu99 IIRC < 1305231759 603160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the \u stuff is the Unicode version of trigraphs, really) < 1305231772 806407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glagolitic capital letter spidery ha /is/ a letter, right? it even says so in its name < 1305231781 765568 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c #include main() { while(1){ fork(); } } < 1305231820 79411 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c #include main() { while(1){ fork(); printf("Forked!"); } } < 1305231821 180366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I get parse errors from both GCC and clang on the declaration < 1305231821 460471 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char s??(10??); printf("%s", s); < 1305231822 611537 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231826 521414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it only Java where you can do that? < 1305231836 449038 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c #include while(1){ fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231838 455075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe so, ais523 < 1305231842 541633 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305231847 483311 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C uses 8-bit strings < 1305231849 318239 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char s??(10??); < 1305231850 526049 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305231856 346585 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no trigraphs at all, eh < 1305231863 880008 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c fork(); printf("Forked!"); < 1305231864 946576 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked! < 1305231870 926540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quick Internet search implies it's legal in at least C++ < 1305231875 459057 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c while(1) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231882 455365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even g++ doesn't like it < 1305231910 363030 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 25; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231912 242147 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked! < 1305231923 674865 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 500; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231939 821791 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot y u no fork < 1305231944 323332 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231946 192462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ g++ test.c < 1305231946 396391 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231947 509478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.c:1: error: stray ‘\’ in program < 1305231948 955353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.c:1: error: expected initializer before ‘u2C22a’ < 1305231951 633152 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231952 190076 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231952 474795 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231952 845763 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231953 312691 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231953 910876 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231955 224693 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's in C99, at least; "Universal character names [of the \u hex-quad and \U hex-quad hex-quad variety] may be used in identifiers, character constants and string literals ..." < 1305231955 663797 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231957 696294 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231958 254363 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231960 430261 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231960 701799 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231962 708233 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231962 789985 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :egads < 1305231963 130914 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231965 164012 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231965 756821 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231967 895845 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231968 136507 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231970 232581 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231970 759380 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { fork(); printf("Forked!"); } < 1305231972 174212 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you please stop that? < 1305231972 860532 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305231973 244086 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1305231974 776857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep, I just checked C++96 < 1305231975 664723 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaa < 1305231983 353797 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO I STOP IT?! < 1305231985 228006 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1305231990 240656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: it's not really a forkbomb if you have to do it manually < 1305231991 789603 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You stop it by stopping saying it. < 1305231998 656267 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true < 1305232003 673678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, g++ is definitely misparsing that < 1305232004 757579 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1305232018 140623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to parse it as \ followed by u2C22a < 1305232040 178768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Clang is counting the \ as a separate token too < 1305232048 113752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any compilers get that right? < 1305232082 941273 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { if (fork()==0){while(1){fork();}}else{printf("Forked!");}} < 1305232084 992547 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305232093 706605 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeaaah < 1305232097 728056 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORKBOMBS < 1305232126 457887 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { if (fork()==0){while(1){fork();}}else{printf("Forked!");}} < 1305232128 551844 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305232146 537302 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hasn't it broke yet? :< < 1305232184 324239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more bizarre: https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/display/seccode/PRE30-C.+Do+not+create+a+universal+character+name+through+concatenation implies that \u0401 works on gcc, but I just tested it and it doesn't < 1305232191 200416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: because the processes are getting killed < 1305232197 301122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by EgoBot's anti-stupidity sandbox < 1305232213 922844 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it detects stupidity and kills it < 1305232218 310423 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1305232219 322343 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305232223 707065 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1305232231 884361 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket's format doesn't have ~{ and ~}? < 1305232233 959269 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a sad < 1305232240 933675 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { if (fork()==0){while(1){fork(); print("Don't worry I'm not stupid. Honest. Please :<");}}else{printf("Forked!");}} < 1305232242 894838 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1305232251 740843 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { if (fork()==0){while(1){fork(); printf("Don't worry I'm not stupid. Honest. Please :<");}}else{printf("Forked!");}} < 1305232253 949942 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305232262 995942 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: muahahahaha < 1305232320 49007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the evil laugh? < 1305232329 150467 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1305232342 531630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : even more bizarre: https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/display/seccode/PRE30-C.+Do+not+create+a+universal+character+name+through+concatenation implies that \u0401 works on gcc, but I just tested it and it doesn't < 1305232343 742396 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may break the sandbox < 1305232348 295890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe GNU C lacks it specifically for some reason < 1305232348 570805 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can convince it < 1305232352 727696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's weird, GNU C is just extensions < 1305232364 170935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: wrong. < 1305232375 48949 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { if (fork()==0){while(1){fork(); printf("I AM NOT STUPID. REALLY. YOU CAN BELIEVE ME. I AM SANE. SEE!");}}else{printf("Forked!");}} < 1305232377 164912 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Forked!Fo < 1305232399 51243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: you're about the twentieth person to try and break the well-tested sandboxing system EgoBot uses < 1305232400 478740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck :P < 1305232404 888158 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) { printf("nya"); } < 1305232406 747058 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​nyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanya < 1305232431 275187 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you possibly do the noisy stuff in a privmsg? < 1305232448 377914 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 10; ++i) { if (fork()==0){while(1){fork(); printf("---");}}else putchar('f');} < 1305232450 192813 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ffffffffff < 1305232452 818453 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 10; ++i) { printf("nya"); } printf("cat"); < 1305232453 463741 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A non-channel privmsg if you want to be pedantic about it.) < 1305232454 760198 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​nyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyacat < 1305232456 330178 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tried to make an executable with Racket < 1305232459 643251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very trivial thing < 1305232467 635136 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's 4.5MB < 1305232478 74530 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's only supposed to be able to run on my machine, so < 1305232505 253535 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 10; ++i) { printf("nya"); } printf("ncat"); < 1305232507 297411 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​nyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyanyancat < 1305232519 773219 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1894499 this is 4.5MB < 1305232538 720461 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yup < 1305232569 171185 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would bet what you have there is a copy of the Racket interpretr with that code just kind of slapped in < 1305232578 585558 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "GCC currently only permits universal character names if -fextended-identifiers is used, because the implementation of universal character names in identifiers is experimental." < 1305232585 194871 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's good enough for what you want to do, though, go for it < 1305232592 96596 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; printf("http://reddit.com/r/"); for (i = 0; i < 7; ++i) { printf("f"); } for (i = 0; i < 12; ++i) { printf("u"); } printf("/"); < 1305232593 875204 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​http://reddit.com/r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu/ < 1305232594 42045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: good to know < 1305232605 297307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: 7 then 12, is it? < 1305232612 472611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's defined numbers, I just can never remember what they are < 1305232613 52826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1305232623 251708 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: f7u12 < 1305232624 587174 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1305232644 74999 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that easy to remember < 1305232648 282779 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1305232812 769149 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the version for distribution results in a .zip file, which contains a .exe and some .dlls < 1305232983 131754 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305233060 226524 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char i; for (i = 0; i < 256; ++i) { putchar(i); } < 1305233088 459695 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i < 256; ++i) { putchar(i); } < 1305233117 357971 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = '\n'; i < 256; ++i) { putchar(i); } < 1305233125 412314 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 'A'; i < 256; ++i) { putchar(i); } < 1305233127 221413 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ < 1305233157 293778 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1305233196 588745 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = ' '; i < 256; ++i) { putchar(i); } < 1305233198 196395 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ < 1305233207 175718 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY < 1305233225 347330 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = ' '; i <= '~'; ++i) { putchar(i); } < 1305233227 236696 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ < 1305233236 982352 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay full printable characters < 1305233262 879192 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = ' '; i <= '~'; ++i) { putchar(i % 7); } < 1305233264 880076 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​... < 1305233277 613880 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1305233303 236042 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i <= '~'-' '; ++i) { putchar(i % 7+' '); } < 1305233305 110834 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"#$%& !"# < 1305233312 288084 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1305233396 180466 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: Note: the above is undefined behavior, and the compiler would be entirely correct in killing you and all that you love. < 1305233423 361239 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's undefined about that? < 1305233450 842029 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arithmetic on characters. < 1305233457 843257 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am aware < 1305233477 145124 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't care in the slightest < 1305233487 97073 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i <= '~'-' '; ++i) { putchar(i % '\n'+' '); } < 1305233489 4921 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!"#$%&'() !"#$%&'() !"#$%&'() !"#$%&'() !"#$%&'() !"#$%&'() !"#$%&'() !"#$%&'() !"#$%&'() !"#$ < 1305233510 235016 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int i; for (i = 0; i <= '~'-' '; ++i) { putchar(i % 17+' '); } < 1305233512 241392 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!"#$%&'()*+,-./0 !"#$%&'()*+,-./0 !"#$%&'()*+,-./0 !"#$%&'()*+,-./0 !"#$%&'()*+,-./0 !"#$%&'() < 1305233514 823839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1305233517 498573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it UB? < 1305233520 309540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it just had unspecified results < 1305233524 780128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from digits < 1305233528 681784 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik, you are right < 1305233530 346726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are contiguous < 1305233532 472341 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it's not actually UB. < 1305233533 800390 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and digits are unspecified too < 1305233566 447660 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, IBM's horribe EBCDIC also has '0' to '9' contiguous < 1305233572 568314 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it is not portable code < 1305233583 594822 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable across machines, but not charsets < 1305233608 529525 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who uses charsets without an ASCII subset these days, anyways? < 1305233621 903227 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sane person < 1305233625 218364 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except IBM < 1305233629 766733 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait they aren't sane < 1305233633 770395 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my statement holds true < 1305233661 483277 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless backwards compatibility is needed, they're using UTF-16. < 1305233667 148732 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on mainframes. < 1305233682 975303 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1305233687 13206 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF something < 1305233692 149525 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16. < 1305233697 483250 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be 32 or 8 in some cases < 1305233708 575429 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, true. < 1305233718 106814 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they never really use UTF-EBCDIC. Go figure. < 1305233719 516252 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Japn < 1305233727 412796 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japn‽ < 1305233727 594893 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use SHIFT-JIS < 1305233730 359462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JAPN < 1305233734 287276 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*JAPAN < 1305233738 830765 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1305233750 833049 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift-JIS is outmoded in Japan, anyways. < 1305233759 20216 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still widely usd < 1305233761 313863 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1305233774 67967 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Not to mention* it was designed specifically to have an ASCII subset. < 1305233777 850737 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Han unification < 1305233786 459085 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, a JIS X 0201 subset) < 1305233802 964687 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which itself has an ASCII subset) < 1305233832 188598 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: There are no current OSes that use Shift-JIS. < 1305233878 376644 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct, but many web pages are encoded in it < 1305233889 321825 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And legacy applications < 1305233892 519675 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :日本はShiftJISをする < 1305233904 800629 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leaves it as a *legacy charset*. < 1305233908 219281 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. outmoded. < 1305233910 404808 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1305233916 740548 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :However some CHOOSE to use it. < 1305233922 457302 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Han Unification < 1305233930 955223 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a piss-poor reason. < 1305233953 577614 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Felix... can't seem to... read from stdin. < 1305233991 160404 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially considering that Shift-JIS refers to a JIS encoding standard which defines its characters in terms of Unicode codepoints, meaning that Shift-JIS also has Han unification. < 1305234017 588306 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, NOW it can. what did i change? < 1305234043 152254 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH OH OH < 1305234056 717271 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you never use the variable in which you stored the input, it gets OPTOMIZED AWAY < 1305234077 890461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1305234080 771253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1305234235 426841 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: Oh, yeah, and there's the nice property that Shift-JIS is a motherfucking *terrible* character encoding. < 1305234245 367730 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ikr < 1305234265 844365 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1305234278 722389 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIS defines its chars in terms of Unicode codepoints? < 1305234279 790372 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305234287 642528 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound's like china's charset < 1305234288 935532 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't originally, but it does now. < 1305234296 671784 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really just a Unicode transformation < 1305234306 302058 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JIS charsets are *defined as* subsets of Unicode. < 1305234328 83277 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd argue it works in reverse < 1305234339 52611 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode was based on other charsets < 1305234350 611412 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm aware. < 1305234406 993961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined such that converting into Unicode has an inverse, for any used charset. < 1305234419 380942 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1305234429 157389 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of that inverse is "untranslatable" though < 1305234467 376138 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that if you convert a string into Unicode, you can then convert that exact string back *from* Unicode. < 1305234507 258965 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, converting arbitrary strings from Unicode and then back is not really feasible. < 1305234539 861261 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want Unicode to be a subset of ASCII, that is. :P < 1305234546 240686 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305234610 181777 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I should make a version of whitespace that uses all unicode spacing chars < 1305234619 842704 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to wonder why JIS X 0208 stuck ¥ in the space where \ usually goes < 1305234629 273799 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, s/208/201/ < 1305234645 33685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that windows users could enjoy really fun paths < 1305234652 150256 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no < 1305234655 975775 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, 201 < 1305234676 283496 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :space restrictions I'd guess < 1305234681 126901 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: such a language already exissts I believe < 1305234700 890329 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Unispace < 1305234705 146606 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: No, there's actually a lot of unusued space. < 1305234713 91661 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1305234716 849897 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "a lot" in the context of an 8 bit encoding. < 1305234731 433971 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it's not exclusively unicode, it still has ascii space and newline in it < 1305234770 785585 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what I meant < 1305234779 858046 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant utilize all spacing characters in unicode < 1305234783 976607 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the ascii ones < 1305234787 425840 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does what I want < 1305234956 47910 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, today I implemented Deadfish in Pure and Felix, and it made me want to do extremely nasty things to all programming language designers and maintainers the world over. < 1305235082 569469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ templates are the best language < 1305235094 168597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What's wrong with Pure though? < 1305235097 967161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My experience with it was pleasant. < 1305235111 730126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(printf "%s " ">>>") < 1305235114 839852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems a little... redundant. < 1305235147 392315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Versus (printf ">>> ") that is. < 1305235151 552993 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as much as is wrong with Felix, that's for sure < 1305235158 695758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main a = (printf "%s " ">>>") $$ (main (fish (limit a) (gets))); < 1305235159 34428 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, try it! < 1305235161 971136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this could be < 1305235168 724533 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it could be shorter < 1305235173 613171 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not golfing, here < 1305235173 980224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main a = printf ">>> " $$ main (fish (limit a) gets) < 1305235175 597041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or such < 1305235180 191630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm just talking about readability < 1305235183 766345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The excessive parents are kind of ugly. < 1305235189 600987 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf with one argument seems to not exist < 1305235196 223363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's puts or similar < 1305235198 735312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :limit a = if a == 256 || a < 0 then 0 else a; < 1305235201 767920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think Pure has guards too < 1305235203 615726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so sure about that, though < 1305235205 36687 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :puts appends a newline iirc < 1305235218 207500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish a "o" = a when puts (str a) end; <-- More nitpicking, but isn't "when" used for guards?? < 1305235226 967013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems weird to use it for incidental effects but I dunno < 1305235227 48393 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, probably. feel free to further, uh, Pure-ify it :) < 1305235231 903248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no Pure programmer :P < 1305235236 599086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll play around with it though < 1305235242 477653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope Pure has a binary < 1305235249 801006 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the manual said 'when' could be used like that :) < 1305235263 343271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, then it's probably idyomatticke. < 1305235269 174717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, only Windows binaries. < 1305235289 607068 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't *encourage* that use, but... yes. < 1305235384 181665 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the main thing about both of them (but especially Felix) is that input and output (especially input) are an afterthought. Hey, let's just wrap the C API. And let's not really document it. Who would want to read input from a user, anyway? < 1305235498 114103 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1305235502 94632 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile i'm designing esolangs in which I can't figure out how to accomplish useful recursion :/ < 1305235542 562560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht < 1305235546 82976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try doing input in C++ templates < 1305235553 732482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define PROGRAM i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,o,s,i,o,i,i,i,i,i,i,i,s,s,s,o < 1305235555 91460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all i get < 1305235611 203913 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305235721 639087 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the designers of the C++ template really should have done a better job considering input < 1305235726 678716 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*template system < 1305235829 123375 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/done a better job considering input/been shot/ < 1305235902 173767 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too < 1305236098 580792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you forgot to add downright to the language list btw < 1305236116 588033 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses require import using include! < 1305236120 695767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK < 1305236126 756446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do it myself if nobody else does first < 1305236149 216452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, we do not have a mathematica Deadfish < 1305236162 818598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm assuming mathematica even has standard input < 1305236173 416477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although arguably it should just look like Deadfish[{i,i,i,s,o}] < 1305236193 750019 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/Input.html < 1305236233 44855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"interactively reads in one Mathematica expression." < 1305236243 420206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :InputString is more like it < 1305236250 902280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :InputString[">>> "] or similar < 1305236288 135098 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I added that quote to bash.org < 1305236295 696713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1305236297 490531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what quote? < 1305236307 322462 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:29 < cpressey> yeah the designers of the C++ template really should have done a better job considering input < 1305236310 823264 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:29 < cpressey> *template system < 1305236311 26445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is so delusional to think that bash ever accepts new quotes any more? :) < 1305236313 336710 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:31 < pikhq> s/done a better job considering input/been shot/ < 1305236317 586569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ajf: we have our own quote database... < 1305236320 417852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305236323 773726 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something < 1305236333 94805 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1305236339 622208 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :add it to that too < 1305236348 514290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not funny enough :P < 1305236357 72914 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lol'd < 1305236358 961689 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1305236374 919334 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote django < 1305236376 257263 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something < 1305236383 422713 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully only one < 1305236393 59753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one < 1305236394 846874 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​407) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one < 1305236414 973067 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote django < 1305236416 74644 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one < 1305236426 86042 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW ITS ALL CRAZY-LIKE < 1305236427 504159 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully only two < 1305236451 114130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way that would fit on one line so i'm not even going to try and add it < 1305236452 538234 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or however it works < 1305236456 615015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one thankfully only two < 1305236458 243602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1305236458 334895 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​408) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one thankfully only two < 1305236464 122089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah these are quality < 1305236468 36952 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-102.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305236473 11386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305236473 464407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305236473 934444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1305236474 910869 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​190) It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..." < 1305236475 528466 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​135) like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English alise: that's great filler ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... < 1305236476 918134 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​278) mtve, now he's an expert idler. mtve: kitty kitty kitty < 1305236481 484740 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote yeah the designers of the C++ template system really should have done a better job considering input s/done a better job considering input/been shot/ < 1305236482 842862 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​409) yeah the designers of the C++ template system really should have done a better job considering input s/done a better job considering input/been shot/ < 1305236491 803214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong formatting ;D < 1305236493 980898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote yeah the designers of the C++ template system really should have done a better job considering input s/done a better job considering input/been shot/ < 1305236495 915791 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236496 833354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1305236500 625208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote ​409 < 1305236501 673168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes < 1305236502 848907 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236507 883618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote yeah the designers of the C++ template system really should have done a better job considering input s/done a better job considering input/been shot/ < 1305236509 745691 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​410) yeah the designers of the C++ template system really should have done a better job considering input s/done a better job considering input/been shot/ < 1305236512 81251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1305236517 983737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote ​409 < 1305236518 677798 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my name wrong < 1305236519 866686 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236522 691236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1305236524 697109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/delquote < 1305236526 525039 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/delquote < 1305236528 416865 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1305236529 812753 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1305236530 912687 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1305236547 238822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: your fake character breaks url detection here < 1305236552 727853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it even copies with it, so it wouldn't load in my browser < 1305236565 502920 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :progress < 1305236583 69392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ampersand please < 1305236589 488100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run delquote ​409 2>&1 < 1305236590 780684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1305236591 324748 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/hackenv.24269/bin/delquote: line 3: ​409: syntax error: operand expected (error token is "​409") < 1305236596 758379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_X < 1305236604 172777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did that break < 1305236621 142296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok wait < 1305236643 921681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/[ "$((id+0))" = "$id" ]/expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1/' bin/delquote < 1305236645 511659 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236651 71490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1305236659 215353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/\[ "$((id+0))" = "$id" \]/expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1/' bin/delquote < 1305236661 87194 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236666 299833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sffkldmc < 1305236670 486344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why isn't this working < 1305236672 789475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1305236679 950533 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run stfu < 1305236681 222762 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236683 669304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run x=9; echo "$((x+9))" < 1305236685 868641 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​18 < 1305236688 448873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305236703 62885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/[ "\$((id+0))" = "\$id" ]/expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1/' bin/delquote < 1305236705 106821 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236705 413685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1305236705 949751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1305236715 729924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's|[ "\$((id+0))" = "\$id" ]|expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1|' bin/delquote < 1305236717 585691 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236720 606428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oijsgdfkgfdklghlkdfgj < 1305236732 156773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bexpr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>i1n/sh < 1305236732 279442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>i1d=$1 < 1305236732 360625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2> 1"$((id+0))" = "$id" ] || exit 1 < 1305236732 360816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heaexpr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>d1 -n $((id-1)) quotes >quotes.new < 1305236732 360916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :taexpr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>i1l -n +$((id+1)) quotes >>quotes.new < 1305236732 899614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>d1iff quotes quotes.new >/dev/null && exit 1 < 1305236734 682400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mvexpr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2> 1quotes.new quotes < 1305236736 793195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :echoexpr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2> 1'*poof*' < 1305236738 653609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1305236742 868544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1305236744 616530 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1305236755 109014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 291 < 1305236756 871461 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1305236767 74637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's|\[ "\$((id+0))" = "\$id" \]|expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1|' bin/delquote < 1305236768 966402 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236775 918890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>[ "$((id+0))" = "$id" ]1 || exit 1 < 1305236777 132587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sodjgogojgoidfgjdg < 1305236779 268933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 291 < 1305236781 501485 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1305236784 431164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's|\[ "\$((id+0))" = "\$id" \]|expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>\&1|' bin/delquote < 1305236786 410205 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236789 995796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1305236793 77620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's|\[ "\$((id+0))" = "\$id" \]|expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>\&1|' bin/delquote < 1305236794 999327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1305236795 80697 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236803 68899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote ​409 < 1305236804 998363 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236807 451170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seiojgnkoiredk nioekjoighfd < 1305236810 431111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run delquote ​409 < 1305236811 952295 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1305236823 158976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MUCH HATE < 1305236869 469444 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notorious Norwegian bank robber Seiojgnkoiredk Nioekjoighfd, 49, was convicted today of... < 1305236876 195954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1305236910 564037 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 409 < 1305236912 318868 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​409) yeah the designers of the C++ template system really should have done a better job considering input s/done a better job considering input/been shot/ < 1305236929 915588 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job < 1305236955 249459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't working < 1305236962 368063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue why -- wait < 1305236975 610967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sh -c 'id=9; echo $((id+9))' < 1305236977 547729 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​18 < 1305236979 275359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :osdijfndopg < 1305237016 460635 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today I learned 9+9 is 18 < 1305237177 513390 :ajf!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 NICK :ajf|offline < 1305237186 33846 :ajf|offline!~~ajf@78.129.159.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight. < 1305237336 716692 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a third dimension in which I can express formal and actual parameters or NO [USEFUL] RECURSION FOR ME. < 1305237367 591157 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe i just need SPECIAL ARROWS < 1305237400 881588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does... does Eightebed distinguish = in an expression and a statement? < 1305237403 534522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1305237411 461703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = (a = a); < 1305237443 262037 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think so? < 1305237457 401935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, seemingly < 1305237459 491338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary < 1305237459 572232 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = 1; <-- assignment. if (a = 3) <-- equality < 1305237461 945642 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like basic < 1305237469 719099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but can you do "a = (b = c)" in BASIC? < 1305237482 525987 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember < 1305237503 355477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I think you could use the least significant bit of the pointer as the valid flag, since all pointers are even on every OS ever < 1305237509 724640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you already do, dunno < 1305237516 148174 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1305237655 690090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's TC right? < 1305237712 24384 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, because of bounded memory, but aside from that, it should be. < 1305237718 783694 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1305237726 364256 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there is no bound on pointer size, so maybe it is < 1305237729 833890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see anything mandating finite pointers, yeah < 1305237735 18563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could avoid the mark phase. < 1305237775 60290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep a table; pointers are indices into this table. The table entries consist of the pointer, the valid flag, and finally, a list of (plain regular non-Eightebed) pointers to places where this pointer is referenced on the heap. < 1305237787 849392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then all you need to do is append to that list whenever you assign a variable to a pointer. < 1305237798 432237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then "free" is just O(n) in the number of aliases. < 1305237807 562864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which looks even less like a garbage collector. < 1305237843 876593 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember thinking of something like that and rejecting it. < 1305237860 567532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it wouldn't work or because it's lame? :) < 1305237871 535973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, wait, you do not even need the list of aliases < 1305237873 727747 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the question was, how would you manage the table? < 1305237875 383215 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1305237876 586342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the valid bit is in the table < 1305237889 336157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Same way any allocator works. < 1305237897 414382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a free list. < 1305237918 357552 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, feel free to implement it and see < 1305237928 594891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1305237930 794832 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm done with Eightebed unless there's another hole < 1305237959 757561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could actually just store the data inline with the table, come to think of it. < 1305237965 701971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is literally like writing your own memory allocator. < 1305238049 590172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1305238059 964316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a flat memory space, then just store the valid bit before every block of memory. < 1305238066 13614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then when dereferencing, just add one to the pointer. < 1305238074 184493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even, have the bit one /before/ the data, and checking validity is just < 1305238079 855833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ([asterisk](ptr-[one])) < 1305238084 893440 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do you know you can re-use the memory? < 1305238133 572295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1305238139 262789 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-166-10.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305238154 704220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that is problematic :) < 1305238161 85164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, in the table solution, you could never reuse table entries < 1305238170 16488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so here's the revised table solution < 1305238175 275073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the table just keeps the real pointer and all the aliases < 1305238181 333795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the indexes into the table keep the valid bit < 1305238187 972052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then free is again O(n) on number of aliases < 1305238195 380973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can reuse table entries as soon as freeing, because it's never used again < 1305238198 156271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the valid bits go off < 1305238222 263329 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple indexes into same table cell? < 1305238231 574372 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each index has its own valid bit? < 1305238250 370929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1305238260 443163 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i know some other index doesn't think this table cell is still valid < 1305238271 813374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :table = map from int -> {pointer, list of aliases} < 1305238275 52049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :free(index) := { < 1305238288 704922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :detagged := detag(index) // detags the valid bit < 1305238295 470299 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-128.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1305238297 460858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for alias in table[detagged].aliases { < 1305238312 80967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag-as-invalid deref(alias) < 1305238313 521750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1305238318 699346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :add detagged to table-free-list < 1305238319 52619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1305238335 550367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: some other index? < 1305238339 178802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the table stores all aliases to this index < 1305238348 562061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you assign an index to a variable, you go add it to the alias list in the table < 1305238376 965940 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you store that index in a structure? < 1305238390 422939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define structure? < 1305238396 826099 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocated memory. < 1305238405 315370 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it seems as if you are marking as you go < 1305238424 984854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that point of the structure gets added to the alias list < 1305238474 671856 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your free is O(n) because you're caching the references in the list < 1305238488 707756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1305238496 587072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's better than a whole heap traversal < 1305238537 281800 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well, if optimizing a loophole response to an offhand claim is your cup of tea, go for it < 1305238552 759756 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea for me was for it to be done at all < 1305238559 851002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying that it sounds like less of a loophole :) < 1305238566 129473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like refcounting this way < 1305238583 640174 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounting still sounds like GC to me < 1305238584 539202 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1305238629 504290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but istr part of gregor's complaint being that it's a colossally slow free() like this < 1305238646 718019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas O(n) in aliases is pretty okay < 1305238662 886789 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's "well known" that refcounting is "faster than" mark-and-sweep < 1305238679 432459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it's not obvious that refcounting applies to eightebed :) < 1305238686 21802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since its a list rather than a number here < 1305238703 655314 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1305238737 610892 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm working on something else and this doesn't really interest me, is all < 1305238802 579546 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm still far from convinced that storing a pointer into allocated memory in these lists is safe, as well < 1305238813 437681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305238820 7177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it could store (table index, offset) instead :) < 1305238824 111767 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when that chunk is no longer valid? how did you get rid of that reference from all lists it might have been in? < 1305238841 212245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't have to, I think < 1305238846 211750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively < 1305238849 468316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you store (table index, offset) < 1305238855 526155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could add it to the alias list etc < 1305238862 476680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it's not quite O(n) heh < 1305239051 260383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1305239239 976684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:23:42: oerjan: i'll read your papers when i've gathered some additional ownage. < 1305239240 96042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:23:52: i mean, those crazy mathematical papers of yours < 1305239241 17177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:27:07: oerjan: in fact, i'll promise to read them 2012, if we both are still around. < 1305239244 741860 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305239282 309578 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i see your papers please, citizen oerjan < 1305239423 524230 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm happy. I think I figured out how to do recursion in my new language < 1305239439 517979 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: lambda abstractions < 1305239444 966613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:13:42: sex and shit, definitely already done... puppies and sex, sure... puppies and shit, obviously... I guess you do have to go all three to find a new genre < 1305239445 86450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:14:09: hmm, i actually haven't seen anything with all three < 1305239452 788848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: those are pretty cool < 1305239454 217918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdas that is < 1305239697 163335 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1305239747 810196 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305239758 242285 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhhhhahahahahaha < 1305239794 425308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1305239858 744306 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing oerjan said about counting down for my head to explode which i can;t find in my scrollback < 1305239865 870592 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it applies now. < 1305239867 716419 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOM < 1305239870 347978 :cpressey!~cpressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1305239919 736773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that cpressey guy sure is weird < 1305239938 717790 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boom < 1305240002 117439 :Slereah!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-128-64.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1305240002 117510 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1305240003 5694 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1305240206 267102 :Slereah!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-128-64.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1305240206 348286 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1305240206 348402 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1305240547 263796 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-24-112.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1305241648 555600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1305241916 456037 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-24-112.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1305242818 970706 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :From your side, that was a minor netsplit. < 1305242823 855439 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :From my side, that was ULTIMATE NETSPLIT. < 1305242839 492199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your MOM is the ultimate netsplit. < 1305242855 910752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, why does Pure have macros. < 1305242859 6535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's already a term rewriting language. < 1305242864 973265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The difference between macros and functions is that macros are not compiled but expanded at compile time, and the resulting code is then compiled. (This is the usual reason to introduce macros.) In this way, macros can be used for adding optimization to the code as well as for avoiding repetitive code." < 1305242874 22753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, surely you can do inlining. < 1305243108 109509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As the author of PURE says, "if you really need Haskell, you know where to find it."" < 1305243215 149222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(In the Haskell language, special techniques are used in this case to trick the compiler into thinking that several calls to gets need to be compiled in a certain order.)" < 1305243217 565089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they're not? < 1305243225 496623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the creator of Pure didn't write this because damn it's stupid. < 1305243273 756265 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe e's referring to the IO monad? < 1305243305 644471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not apply to the IO monad. < 1305243312 350054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow holy shit Pure's gets is ugly. < 1305244406 453789 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pure a good language < 1305244542 809229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1305244575 586320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Maybe. < 1305244609 874813 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to look at their example code but their whatever is configured improperly and I downloaded them instead < 1305244615 115600 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not bothering < 1305244672 891738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: The IO support seems lame, but the actual language is interesting. < 1305244675 557771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the successor of Q. < 1305244686 44626 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continuations may be just what Active Worlds bots need < 1305244697 27729 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe I didn't see it earlier < 1305244699 634800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It's essentially pure term-rewriting, but compiled and efficient. < 1305244765 527351 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :active worlds? is that one of your virtual reality obsessions? you're the guy who has those right? < 1305244791 504131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes on all accounts