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01:22:12 <zzo38> How much of a polyglot quine can you write?
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01:49:16 <HackEgo> 85) <@Lawlabee> Why does Monday start at 10PM on Sunday? \ 94) <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. \ 95) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :( \ 112) <Warrigal> Making a small shrine to Lawlabee
01:50:37 <HackEgo> 198) <Phantom_Hoover> It's only been 2 months since anyone last made a commit! <alise> WRONG 8 WEEKS
01:51:21 <tswett> We've got some trigraph gaps.
01:51:28 <HackEgo> 62) <Madelon> yay fire! * Madelon combusts spontaneously. \ 79) <oklofok> i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program \ 89) <coppro> hmm... does anyone know a nonsense game designed for the mentally handicapped involving yelling \ 106) <scarf> and an AMICED
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01:51:44 <HackEgo> 106) <scarf> and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source <scarf> whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain <scarf> it's all falling into place
01:56:51 <zzo38> I think it is something in TURKEY BOMB (see the esolang wiki)
01:57:19 <zzo38> AMICED is described as "negative six sevenths of a decimal digit"
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02:12:58 <elliott__> oerjan: i just won all the raw pots. all of them.
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02:23:17 <elliott> Sgeo_: btw if you said anything to elliott__ he probably died before it got through.
02:23:36 <Sgeo_> Last thing I said was Ok.
02:25:30 * oerjan swats himself -----###
02:25:45 <oerjan> READING COMPREHENSION, OERJAN
02:27:05 <zzo38> I went to Victoria yesterday and today because it cannot go tomorrow so I go today instead. It is the good Japanese restaurant, too.
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02:30:30 <zzo38> They make fish miso soup including noodle, and bowl of beef and eggs and rice together, without putting too much sauce, and make tea with corn, too. Also, it is not necessary to ask them for the spoon.
02:32:56 <zzo38> Do you know about that?
02:33:03 <elliott> i know everything about that.
02:34:07 <zzo38> How do you know? Have you been to Victoria? Have you been to Japanese restaurant there? Have you been to other Japanese restaurant? Have you been in Japanese restaurant in Japan? Have you cooked it yourself?
02:35:35 <zzo38> I looked behind my chair and I didn't find you. Do you mean in the past?
02:41:50 <zzo38> How many hands are you holding up?
02:42:23 <elliott> how can you count....FROREVER
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02:43:14 <elliott> pikhq is the headquarters of piks
02:43:19 <elliott> i want a new pik PIKHQ GIVE ME A FUCKING PIK
02:45:49 <elliott> oh my GOD outside birds... why do you make sounds.
02:47:37 <zzo38> The bird is supposed to make sounds! And also people! And wind! And the other stuff!
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03:08:31 <oerjan> for being a nihilist he's making a lot of noise
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03:11:12 <elliott> NihilistDandy: YOU ARE NOT BEING VERY DANDY AT ALL.
03:12:21 <elliott> AT LEAST I STAY CONNECTED LIKE A TRUE NIHILIST
03:13:29 <elliott> YOU'RE TAKING THIS VERY PERSONALLY FOR A NIHILIST
03:14:11 <NihilistDandy> You've struck to the heart of me. I concede, sirrah.
03:21:25 <zzo38> 3 out of 4 statisticians objected to the small sample size of this study.
03:24:09 <oerjan> 1 out of 1 mathematicians thinks the sample size is just fine
03:25:10 <zzo38> I also played the D&D game while at Victoria although one of the players did not play in this session because the other players did not want them to eat and make all the crumbs fall on the bed
03:28:14 <oerjan> good, good, keep on thinking
03:36:48 <oerjan> i sense much anger in you
03:39:30 <elliott> hmm, can delay/force be implemented in pure Scheme...
03:40:05 <oerjan> pure = without mutation? then i doubt it...
03:40:14 <elliott> no, pure as in without extensions
03:40:26 <elliott> but actually the report provides one :-)
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03:41:35 <elliott_> does Scheme define any other "unspecified types" like it does promises, I wonder
03:41:44 <elliott_> i.e. it's perfectly fine for a promise to be a pair, a string, a procedure, anything
03:41:48 <elliott_> so you can't actually distinguish promises portably...
03:52:38 <pikhq> My computer's sensors claim that the +5V line out of the PSU is outputting +3.04V, and the +12V line +4.08V...
03:52:47 <pikhq> I *highly* doubt that that's true.
03:53:12 <pikhq> Pretty sure my RAM would be randomised.
03:53:36 <elliott_> pikhq: Hey, what's the playstation two emulation state like.
03:53:49 <elliott_> I realise the only thing that'll work is HLE but are there any?
03:53:58 <elliott_> Googling suggests there's, like, a handful, but god knows how good they are.
03:54:04 <pikhq> PCSX2 is the only PS2 emulator.
03:54:22 <elliott_> That's the one I'm looking at -- but, er, google suggests otherwise.
03:54:31 <pikhq> It requires a decent computer & graphics card, but it seems to have decent compatibility.
03:54:39 <pikhq> It's the only one that you're going to actually play games with.
03:55:47 <elliott_> I should just buy a bunch of consoles and hook them up to a network somehow rather than trying to emulate them.
03:55:57 <pikhq> They're reporting 65% playability rate on the PS2 library with the latest release...
03:56:20 <pikhq> Which is actually a pretty astounding feat considering how much of a fucking pain the PS2 is.
03:56:26 <elliott_> The only question is, will it run on this laptop?
03:56:33 <pikhq> What's your CPU and GPU?
03:56:56 <elliott_> My CPU = 2.13GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 6MB shared L2 cache
03:57:06 <pikhq> CPU is good enough.
03:57:08 <elliott_> And it's a MacBook Air, so it's probably not the latest Core 2 model either... (but it is the new model.)
03:57:23 <elliott_> NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory3
03:57:34 <pikhq> Mmmm, decent chance of it working.
03:57:38 <elliott_> It's meant to be the best integrated laptop GPU or something like that, which is like being the best... mediocre thing.
03:57:56 <elliott_> But hey, it can do Minecraft on Far/Fancy with a bunch of graphical mods at >hundred fps, SO CLEARLY IT'S A SPEED DEMON.
03:58:22 <elliott_> Hmm, aren't PS2 games distributed on DVDs?
03:58:31 <pikhq> With a few exceptions.
03:58:33 <elliott_> Please tell me they're mostly the four gig kind.
03:58:46 <pikhq> (the PS2 will also read PS2 games on CD-ROM; this was not much used)
03:58:51 <elliott_> The time it would take to download 9 gigabytes exceeds the enjoyment I could possibly glean from any game.
03:58:55 <pikhq> They're mostly the 4 gig kind.
03:59:09 <elliott_> I might give it a go later then.
04:00:02 <pikhq> Remember, this thing came out in *2000*.
04:00:33 <elliott_> Yeaaaah, but it came from /Japan/ and even /they/ got it from visiting technological space aliens.
04:00:40 <pikhq> At the time, developers were probably having trouble thinking up ways to use 4 gigs...
04:00:55 <pikhq> With the exception of Square, which was probably highly tempted to make FFX a 2-disc game.
04:00:55 <elliott_> As opposed to Luddite space aliens that rode in on a wagon.
04:01:42 <zzo38> 4 gigs is way more than enough for most things (other than movies)
04:02:24 <elliott_> zzo38: games are getting more and more cinematic...
04:02:25 <pikhq> zzo38: Yeah, most of the space for modern games is video and audio. Code is negligible.
04:02:31 <zzo38> elliott_: If it takes too long to download, purchase the CD or DVD of it (if you have money and can find to purchase)
04:02:39 <elliott_> zzo38: i don't have a CD/DVD drive
04:03:28 <zzo38> OK. That is one reason to download the copy from elsewise.
04:03:31 <pikhq> Also, 4 gigs is way more than enough for movies if you don't mind it being SD, and can use x264.
04:03:48 <zzo38> Yes, including from elsewise.
04:04:14 <pikhq> Well, if you want full 1080p, 4 to 8G is entirely reasonable.
04:04:23 <pikhq> If and only if you can use x264, of course.
04:04:41 <elliott_> sure wish H.264 wasn't encumbered
04:04:45 <zzo38> pikhq: I don't mind it being SD but I want to use a format that is not patented.
04:05:04 <pikhq> Such a shame H.264 is encumbered.
04:05:15 <elliott_> OTOH, if you're committing an act of piracy, who cares :-P
04:05:15 <pikhq> Because x264 is so *ridiculously* far ahead of the competition.
04:05:37 <zzo38> Then wait for patent to expire before using it, if it is patented
04:06:15 <pikhq> zzo38: Only in the past year have patents that were first made in my lifetime started to expire.
04:06:21 <elliott_> pikhq: speaking of x264, after the ffmpeg/libav drama I joined the channels of both and DarkShikari took the wrong side and I was sad but then I realised WOW that is a really stupid thing to be sad about and reconsidered my life decisions and it turns out I'm a terrible person, hi
04:06:58 <pikhq> elliott_: DarkShikari probably took the side with the most technical merit, politics be damned.
04:07:09 <elliott_> they're both nearly identical :P
04:07:34 <pikhq> YOU AND YOUR "FORKS HAVEN'T DIVERGED YET"
04:08:01 <elliott_> yeah i just don't think i can ever use libav with the ridiculous childishness i saw on the lists
04:08:08 <zzo38> I think many games have too much movies in it, it not only uses up disk space but also time, you have to watch the movie to understand the game and you cannot skip it, too bad!
04:08:19 <elliott_> pikhq: didn't i already tell you about this??
04:08:31 <elliott_> they basically rewrote the ffmpeg website because they had the commit bit, to have them as the new core team
04:08:35 <elliott_> because changing it on the website makes it true
04:08:39 <zzo38> Make a game where maybe only 1% consists of audio/video and special effects on screen
04:08:53 <elliott_> so then after this coup d'etat was reverted, they decided to "change the name of ffmpeg" (read: fork the project to get rid of the maintainer)
04:08:56 <elliott_> pikhq: so they set up new mailing lists
04:08:58 <pikhq> zzo38: I think that games are focusing way too much on shiny bits over substance, personally.
04:09:04 <elliott_> pikhq: then /automatically subscribed every single person on the ffmpeg list to the new libav/
04:09:07 <elliott_> pikhq: then /automatically subscribed every single person on the ffmpeg list to the new libav list/
04:09:19 <elliott_> pikhq: and then /posted on the ffmpeg list saying they were "renaming the list, so it would be shutting down in a few days"/
04:09:35 <pikhq> elliott_: ... *Jeeze*.
04:09:40 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, I think so, too. Mostly because many people don't know a lot of things about game design (including mathematical things about game design, but not limited to that).
04:09:47 <elliott_> fork instead? PRETEND IT'S A RENAME
04:09:59 <elliott_> and try and technologically destroy your parent project
04:10:19 <pikhq> zzo38: And not even just talking about gameplay. You can see the same thing with game plots.
04:10:57 <pikhq> zzo38: "Deep, involved story? Nah, let's just put a few bishōnen in the cast and spend a few extra million on CGI, and call it a day."
04:11:25 <elliott_> speaking of the games industry, i can't believe telltale games are still afloat
04:11:28 <zzo38> pikhq: Depending on the game, some kind of game don't need too much of involved story, however.
04:11:46 <pikhq> zzo38: True, but some kinds do.
04:13:21 <zzo38> A puzzle game doesn't need a story, except for text adventure games including puzzles. I also consider text-adventure games to be the closest kind to role-playing games (such as Dungeons&Dragons), which also should have some kinds of stories although it can be modified.
04:14:01 <zzo38> I also wrote a article about some things about computer game design, in my gopher server.
04:14:10 <zzo38> And I would like your opinion of this article, too.
04:16:38 <zzo38> I am sure I wrote some things that some people will disagree with, although some of this disagreement will be due to not understanding it.
04:22:06 <zzo38> elliott_: I was trying to ask pikhq (not you), but that is OK too, since it is public message and anyone is allowed to answer and/or complain about it.
04:24:23 <zzo38> Oops! Too bad, I forgot to write the URL(s)!!!
04:24:40 <zzo38> Therefore maybe you have to guess
04:26:22 <zzo38> Do you agree, that in Caverns of Zeux, you have unlimited
04:26:33 <zzo38> Do you agree, that in Caverns of Zeux, you have unlimited in Caverns of Zeux, you have unlimited
04:26:56 <zzo38> Do you agree, that in Caverns of Zeux, you have unlimited ammunition, which ruins this system of scoring?
04:36:22 <zzo38> (Received blank message from client)
04:36:46 <elliott_> -zzo38/#esoteric- (Received blank message from client)
04:40:52 <zzo38> elliott_: Do you have any opinions of computer games design? Either way, make up one computer game that has its own opinions of computer games design.
04:40:55 <elliott_> zzo38: i take it the message was not actually blank?
04:41:23 <zzo38> elliott_: Message? Do you mean the message that says "(Received blank message from client)"?
04:43:03 <zzo38> Yes, it was not actually blank. I did type those words in.
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05:29:52 <CakeProphet> you know what would be amazing? A function that converts a Perl regex into a Parsec parser.
05:39:15 <elliott_> Parsec parsers are easier to write than regexps.
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05:52:05 <pikhq> Well, that was fun.
05:52:20 <pikhq> Kernel panic, sysrq didn't work.
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06:01:07 <Sgeo_> Is sysrq supposed to work during kernel panic? If so, how can there be a kernel panic where it doesn't work, that's scary
06:02:45 <pikhq> Sysrq works as long as the *keyboard driver* works.
06:02:52 <pikhq> It is very, very low level.
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06:16:01 <elliott_> pikhq: Clearly we need a Sysrq that works EVEN IF THE KEYBOARD DRIVER DOESN'T
06:16:16 <elliott_> Morse code on the power button, perhaps?
06:20:59 <pikhq> elliott_: You're not going to get anything to work without some CPU modification.
06:21:23 <pikhq> At minimum, an absolutely unavoidable interrupt.
06:22:03 <olsner> the bios could set up a system management interrupt
06:22:25 <olsner> that's almost impossible for the operating system to work around
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06:27:29 <elliott_> olsner: yes but it's also impossible for it to _react_ to :D
06:31:31 <olsner> just put code in bios to handle the magic sysrq for every version and configuration of linux and any other operating system
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07:17:52 <pikhq> Just wire an interrupt line to the keyboard.
07:18:07 <pikhq> Make it unmaskable.
07:18:45 <elliott_> make it fire even if interrupts are off ;D
07:18:53 <elliott_> pikhq: Label the button "PANIC".
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07:19:24 <Lymia> elliott_, and what would it do?
07:19:28 <ais523> I'm going to spend all day marking exams
07:19:35 <elliott_> Lymia: Fire an unmaskable interrupt.
07:19:35 <ais523> but I came in here before the marking session starts
07:19:40 <Lymia> From.. a keyboard.
07:19:44 <elliott_> ais523: get us to mark them for you, it'll be GREAT
07:19:53 <elliott_> Lymia: It's for when magic sysrq would fail.
07:19:59 <ais523> elliott_: I think that would violate some sort of data protection law
07:20:18 <Lymia> ais523, get a program to do it for you.
07:21:11 <ais523> first-year programming (specifically Java)
07:21:19 <ais523> although it's more about the concepts than the languages
07:21:42 <Lymia> If the exam was written right, you could automatically grade "write code" segments, couldn't you?
07:22:13 <Lymia> Or... is it on paper.
07:22:16 <ais523> only if the student got it right
07:22:19 <ais523> and it's on paper, ofc
07:22:25 <Lymia> No code on it, right?
07:22:32 <ais523> (working out how many marks to give to a partially wrong answer is hard to do automatically)
07:22:38 <ais523> and of course there's code on it, it's a programming exam
07:23:15 <elliott_> ais523: what, those poor kids have to /code/ on /paper/? that's a violation of some kind of international law, isn't it?
07:23:39 <ais523> elliott_: it's to stop them randomly typing stuff into NetBeans in the hope of triggering the autocomplete
07:24:45 <Lymia> ais523, what kinds of questions are used?
07:25:00 <ais523> e.g. a C programmer assuming that "sizeof" was invalid, and trying to use "size_t" instead, because "sizeof" wasn't in the autocomplete
07:25:06 <elliott_> ais523: int x = malloc size_t(sizeof). printf(x\n);
07:25:23 <ais523> Lymia: some of it's about the basics; arithmetic, recursion, OO concepts (the Java version thereof), etc
07:25:48 <ais523> we teach recursion before iteration here, which is a little bizarre as Java teaching goes
07:26:12 <Lymia> Sounds a little dangerous.
07:26:35 <elliott_> ais523: Why on earth would you teach a low-level concept of recursion so early? :-)
07:26:43 <elliott_> Do you teach them about microcode and branch prediction too? ;D
07:26:50 <Lymia> Mostly with recursion (supposedly) being harder to get, and the danger of a stack overflow with long enough loops.
07:26:58 <elliott_> Lymia: no way is recursion "harder to get"
07:27:07 <Lymia> I guess the language with recursion is simpler.
07:27:10 <elliott_> the only people who think that are
07:27:19 <elliott_> - people who haven't coded in a functional language before
07:27:25 <Lymia> if/function calls/arithmetic/etc
07:27:25 <ais523> elliott_: well, many people seem to miss it, especially if taught iteration first
07:27:33 <elliott_> - students who's problem is terrible teaching, not recursion
07:27:38 <elliott_> - people who just want to whine :)
07:27:40 <ais523> but if you see the number of ways people mess up for loops, you can see that iteration can be just as tricky
07:27:51 <elliott_> ais523: Oh, iteration is just a lower-level way of expressing the same thing.
07:27:52 <Lymia> ais523, worse than off-by-one errors?
07:28:03 <elliott_> I'm being a snarky FP douchebag here; higher-order combinators are where it's at.
07:28:07 <elliott_> Why recurse when you can unfold?
07:28:37 <ais523> higher-order combinators are really nasty to write in Java (although possible)
07:28:48 <ais523> that said, I wrote a couple of higher-order functions in C recently
07:28:59 <Lymia> When's Java 8 going to be out anyways.
07:29:06 <Lymia> Lambda expressions would be really useful.
07:29:11 <ais523> they were a mess of casts as they had one of those infinite types that Haskell dislikes
07:29:34 <elliott_> Lymia: it's available from your local Consider The Bad Life Choices You Have Made That Have Resulted In You Programming Java store.
07:29:53 <elliott_> I suggest Existential Crisis Two Point Oh as a useful program to go with it.
07:30:21 <Lymia> I hope Java 8's out by the time I get any kind of (Java) programming job.
07:30:43 <elliott_> Lymia: You think they'll upgrade their infrastructure that quickly?
07:30:45 <Lymia> elliott_, what language do you prefer?
07:30:48 <elliott_> there are shops still on one-point-four.
07:31:08 <elliott_> Java onepointfour, shut up, my number keys are broken.
07:31:15 <elliott_> <Lymia> elliott_, what language do you prefer?
07:31:39 <elliott_> I'm usually a Haskell weenie :P
07:32:04 <Lymia> I still need to get around to doing something serious with that.
07:32:21 <elliott_> What can be more serious than SHIRO??????
07:33:06 <elliott_> Lymia: Shiro, the best Funge-9eight interpreter this side of reality/
07:33:15 <elliott_> THOUSANDS OF LINES OF VERY SERIOUS HASKELL
07:33:40 <elliott_> Totals grouped by language (dominant language first):
07:33:45 <elliott_> I distinctly recall it being longer.
07:33:53 <elliott_> That... does that actually include all of my fingerprints?
07:34:27 <Lymia> I wonder how your average Java shop would react to code with more functional stuff than otherwise, or clojure.jar
07:34:41 <elliott_> insert vague anti-clojure sentiment
07:34:53 <elliott_> although it's probably better than scala :)
07:34:58 <ais523> elliott_: that seems a remarkably general objection
07:35:05 <Lymia> The reaction or language?
07:35:31 <elliott_> I have a general objection to PHP too, general-anti-language-objections aren't uncommon
07:35:36 <ais523> elliott_: yes, I mentally inserted a vague anti-clojure sentiment, then replied to it
07:35:39 <elliott_> although my dislike of Clojure is too mild for me really to care
07:37:35 <elliott_> Yes, I too am thoroughly enjoying being deranged.
07:37:50 <elliott_> I shouldn't mock Perl, it's like stealing the disabled parking space :(
07:38:06 <CakeProphet> you have to be kind of crazy to enjoy Perl.
07:38:23 <monqy> I like perl in that it's hilarious
07:38:27 <CakeProphet> but really it's quite nice. I decided to learn it a few weeks ago by doing a bunch of random projects with it, and so far it's been amazing.
07:38:32 <monqy> fun but nightmarish
07:38:34 <Lymia> Perl is useful for golf
07:38:51 <Lymia> And string processing.
07:38:51 <elliott_> CakeProphet: indeed, I too sometimes take copious amounts of drugs and end up intoxicated for several weeks in a haze of insanity.
07:38:54 <elliott_> Disclaimer: This is not actually the case.
07:39:21 <CakeProphet> I guess from a language design standpoint it's pretty bad, but... it's so good at what it does.
07:39:42 <Lymia> elliott_, I will force you to use BASIC.
07:39:50 <elliott_> Lymia: I like QBASIC. It makes me happy.
07:40:01 <Lymia> Basic of the Visual type.
07:41:00 <CakeProphet> ..but I've noticed since using Perl I've started using regex for almost every string processing task ever.
07:41:51 <CakeProphet> which I guess isn't really a bad thing. It's only bad when I have to use something other than Perl, I guess.
07:41:52 <elliott_> CakeProphet: And how many problems do you have now?
07:42:33 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Nonsense, they've clearly doubled.
07:43:05 <elliott_> I'm going to assume you haven't seen the famous quote then.
07:43:14 <CakeProphet> people who suck at reading and using regex just complain when other people use regex to do amazing things.
07:43:21 <CakeProphet> elliott_: I have, I just posit that it is wrong.
07:43:47 <elliott_> I can read, understand, and write advanced regexps perfectly well; that doesn't mean I don't think they're not a completely awkward syntax for all but the most simple of expressions.
07:44:35 <Lymia> With regexes being a part of Perl's syntax, couldn't you just break down the regex into components?
07:44:57 <elliott_> You mean... some kind of... abstract... syntax... tree?
07:46:02 <CakeProphet> true, but for most simple tasks regex beats alternatives. And really in #esolang you can't complain about awkward syntax. :D
07:46:16 <elliott_> I think you may be confused as to what channel this is.
07:46:32 <elliott_> Anyway I don't do my programming in /// for a reason, so mentioning the channel name is silly :P
07:47:13 <elliott_> You're lucky # isn't a metacharacter (unless the x flag is on).
07:47:19 <CakeProphet> elliott_: well yes, it would be silly to think that regex is a programming language.
07:47:28 <CakeProphet> elliott_: if it were I would have escaped it.
07:47:41 <elliott_> It /is/, though, it's an embedded domain-specific language.
07:48:02 <elliott_> Perl six is redesigning the syntax for a reason.
07:48:40 <CakeProphet> elliott_: technically correct, sure. But it's not turing complete unless you're in Perl. I was referring to turing complete programming languages. You know, the ones that most people think of when they hear the phrase programming language.
07:48:57 <elliott_> actually, perl regexps are tc.
07:50:15 <CakeProphet> though isn't it only because of the @{[]} feature? I guess that's technically not part of the regex syntax, but just perl string interpolation, actually.
07:50:27 <elliott_> There's a more explicit perl embedding thing.
07:50:31 <elliott_> (??{...}) I think. ais523 knows.
07:50:46 <elliott_> But it's still pretty powerful even without that
07:50:57 <CakeProphet> ?? is delayed execution of Perl code. Makes it possible to do recursive patterns.
07:50:57 <lambdabot> is delayed execution of Perl code. Makes it possible to do recursive patterns.
07:50:59 <elliott_> It can do parenthesis matching, aNbN, etc.
07:51:09 <ais523> embedded Perl is actually (?{...})
07:51:23 <elliott_> CakeProphet: also lets you write a debugger
07:51:26 <ais523> (??{...}) instead embeds Perl, then interprets the result as a regex, so it was mostly used for recursion
07:51:30 <elliott_> http://perl.plover.com/Rx/paper/
07:51:32 <ais523> but (?R) is the usual way to do that nowadays
07:51:50 <CakeProphet> ais523: oh really? not familiar with that option.
07:52:04 <ais523> recursion by itself isn't enough to make regex TC, though, I think
07:52:11 <ais523> because there's no way to do the storage required
07:52:35 <CakeProphet> yeah I don't see how you could model a Turing machine with regex.
07:54:08 <CakeProphet> one problem I would think is that it has a limited means of output. Usually a success or failure, or with s/// a substitution count.
07:54:31 <elliott_> repeated regexp is tc obviously
07:55:13 <CakeProphet> uh, I don't know what that acronym stands for.
07:57:04 <monqy> bitwise cyclic tag? sometimes I memorise catchy acronyms and I guess that's one of them
07:57:38 <CakeProphet> elliott_: I think we have different definitions of obvious..
07:57:55 <elliott_> regexps can trivially do single steps of bct
07:58:00 <elliott_> repeating it equates to running a bct program
07:58:16 <elliott_> do = with s/// on the combined program<>data string
08:00:06 <elliott_> repeated regexp as in regexp in a for(;;) loop.
08:00:31 <CakeProphet> how does that imply that Perl regex as a language is Turing complete, if you're using a for loop?
08:00:54 <elliott_> please look at the actual claims i'm making
08:02:00 <CakeProphet> ah. you did indeed say "repeated regex", though at the time I thought that meant something completely different.
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08:06:49 <CakeProphet> so we're not even talking about the turing completeness of regex anymore. derailed.
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08:50:19 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
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08:54:18 <elliott_> i'm so glad ph came to dispense his wisdom
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10:55:30 <Phantom_Hoover> 23:03:34: <elliott__> I don't think the wiki has nearly enough traffic to keep it turning over at a decent rate were it democratic, though
10:55:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Clearly we should just select an esolang here with the RationalWiki Method Of Deciding Things.
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11:08:49 <cheater__> mac-fail of the day: the only replacement for hte shitty terminal app is even shittier
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11:46:16 <Maxdamantus> jw, has anyone made an interesting VM of some sort in brainfuck or similar?
11:46:30 <Maxdamantus> (one that lets you program in a non-BF manner)
11:47:23 <Maxdamantus> (eg, by allocating objects and storing values in them, where a value would be some sort of integer or pointer to object)
11:47:36 <elliott_> people have written interpreters.
11:47:42 <elliott_> vms are just interpreters of a bytecode :)
11:47:51 <Maxdamantus> (and where allocation of objects will be unrestricted, thus making it turing complete)
11:49:07 <elliott_> well, again, that's just a specific type of interpreter :)
11:49:14 <elliott_> there are certainly interpreters of tc languages in bf
11:51:53 <elliott_> see http://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoInterpreters
11:52:09 <elliott_> hm there's a surprising lack there
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11:52:15 <elliott_> i know they exist, but evidently not on that page :)
11:52:26 <elliott_> the bct one still counts though
11:52:42 <elliott_> also see http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/
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11:52:52 <elliott_> game of life counts if it's infinite
11:53:05 <elliott_> being a universal turing machine
11:53:24 <elliott_> and ofc there is the dbfi self-interpreter :-)
11:56:58 <Sgeo_> Why is MSPA Wiki so slow
11:57:26 <Sgeo_> Or maybe it's my comp
11:57:37 <Sgeo_> Just having troubl with the pages for some reason
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12:13:42 * elliott reads some Coding Horror to restore his hate in humanity.
12:15:39 <elliott> "That was the day I officially stopped caring what version Chrome is."
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13:05:24 <Patashu> the writer of coding horror or the people's work who get featured on it restore your hate?
13:07:58 <elliott_> i don't think you understand what coding horror is
13:08:04 <elliott_> (it has nothing to do with coding horrors and is nothing like the daily wtf or anything)
13:08:16 <elliott_> it's jeff atwood's personal insult to intelligence and humanity and, also, matter
13:08:21 <elliott_> yes. it is so bad it discredits matter.
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13:39:33 <ais523> ouch, I still have that headache from a particularly bad answer to a question
13:40:30 <ais523> here's the gist of what happened: the question had two functions, each of which just did arithmetic on their argument and returned the result
13:40:50 <ais523> they were identical except that one took an int as an argument, and the other took a double
13:41:05 <ais523> (it was one of those questions that tests whether people know the difference between integer and floatingpoint division)
13:41:18 <ais523> and the question asked "do these functions return the same result?"
13:41:26 <ais523> most students answered "yes" or "no" ("no" was correct)
13:41:46 <ais523> this student, however, copied the question, then wrote two more functions with the same names as the first two
13:42:07 <ais523> the first of the new ones had the same semantics as the first in the question, just rearranged
13:42:30 <ais523> the second was identical to the first new one, except there was an extra multiplication by 2 (or rather, an existing constant was doubled)
13:43:08 <ais523> and the answer was along the lines of, "the first function returns the same result because I just rearranged it, the second one doesn't because it's double"
13:43:22 <ais523> my head is still hurting
13:44:22 <ais523> oh dear, I think the shock killed elliott_ too
13:45:11 <elliott_> You need to track them down and have a breakdown while screaming "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY".
13:45:30 <ais523> I pity any logreaders who stumble across this
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14:02:30 <ais523> hmm, I think it broke cheater__ too
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14:18:46 <ais523> hmm, which reminds me, was there any reaction from the person advertising the rapture as to why he isn't in heaven yet?
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14:45:52 <cheater__> ais523: no idea, but you should find out, it sounds interesting
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15:14:39 <ais523> Wind: West / Southwest - 20.7 mph
15:14:46 <ais523> presumably it's even windier in Scotland
15:17:24 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/hhsu8/its_official_i_have_no_life/
15:18:03 <Phantom_Hoover> I like the way half the comments are pathetic failures at self-aware humour about the fact that the poster is female.
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15:40:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Make a pen, one end of which has an inked stamp saying "×10".
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15:41:44 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: We should make one for mathematicians too, although it might be hard to fit "The proof of this is left as an exercise to the reader." on.
15:43:09 <variable> elliott_: I have the most remarkable proof but this pen is too small....
15:44:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Perhaps with the money from these inventions I can make my Ludicrously Rare Things.
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17:05:55 * pikhq is pleasantly surprised at some of the GNU extensions tcc can handle
17:06:11 <pikhq> It actually does GNU's statement expressions.
17:07:03 <ais523> that's quite easy, isn't it, though?
17:07:19 <ais523> statement/expression distinctions aren't really necessary for a language
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17:07:32 <pikhq> Yeah, *but* it's not exactly something you expect a minimal C compiler to do.
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17:23:28 <zzo38> Some people ask me questions such as "Practicing writing shitty programs with shitty tools originally intended as jokes and only actually implemented because computer geeks have no sense of humor? ... why would you want to practice that? "?
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17:24:48 <pikhq> Isn't half the point of esolangs that they're fun to fuck around with?
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17:25:55 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, I think so
17:27:57 <zzo38> Did I write shitty TeX program?
17:28:05 <zzo38> http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/24383/254898.aspx#254898
17:33:44 <zzo38> Now what you *you* think??????????????????????????????
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17:46:59 <elliott_> asdfqasdfqasdfqasdfqasdfQASDFAFQASFQWQSDFQASFDSDWQASFQ
17:48:00 <zzo38> elliott_: What do you mean by that?
17:52:42 <zzo38> Do you know what is happening here? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_14/desktopdesktop.png
17:52:53 <zzo38> (Note: not my computer)
17:53:48 <zzo38> Lymia: Yes that is one part of it.
17:54:25 <fizzie> Perhaps the user installed Microsoft Office? I mean, offices typically have lots of desks...
17:56:10 <elliott_> what happened is that zzo38 a desk
17:56:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god has elliott_'s radiant smoothness claimed another life,
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17:58:23 <zzo38> How many hands am I holding up in 5 seconds from now?
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17:59:40 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, was the IRC channel the idiot mentioned #esoteric?
18:01:51 <elliott_> ">Most people that use it use LaTeX (or XePDFeLaTeX or whatever)
18:01:51 <elliott_> Yeah... obviously most people use thing nobody except open source freaks have ever heard of."
18:01:54 <elliott_> this guy cant actually read can he
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18:04:05 <elliott_> being stupid is its own punishment
18:04:11 <elliott_> but maybe the punishment isnt harsh enough
18:04:39 <Phantom_Hoover> "I don't feel I "know" any languages. JavaScript has been my bread and butter for like 6 years now, and I still learn new things about it."
18:08:52 <zzo38> They didn't mention any IRC channel, but was refering to the mention of +TEXNICARD
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18:31:41 <zzo38> All he [SpectateSwamp]rebukes with is something about us being perfect-perfects and that UNIX somehow prevents "the common people" from sharing knowledge.
18:33:03 <ais523> you mentioned SpectateSwamp in here?
18:33:56 <Phantom_Hoover> It seems to have aroused EMOTIONS in ais, so it must be IMPORTANT.
18:38:16 <zzo38> Note that I have mentioned that UNIX already has enough things (you might add a few more minor things) to do most of the stuff needed that you do not need SSDS (a badly designed program anyways). He has claimed the "random" feature is important for viewing photographs in a 5000+ family photo album. In Linux try this: display `ls | shuf | head -1`
18:39:15 <zzo38> Or, I guess, shuf -n1
18:39:17 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: seriously, you don't want to know
18:39:30 <ais523> zzo38: try not to take SpectateSwamp seriously
18:39:35 <ais523> he might believe what he's saying, but most people don't
18:40:00 <ais523> and rebutting his points is kind-of pointless, as he mostly won't care and everyone else can see the problems with them already
18:40:47 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: if you're really curious, I imagine you can discover all you need to know via Google, although I admit I haven't actually tried
18:41:33 <fizzie> Googlehit #4 (for me, anyway): "Download Spectate Swamp Search full keygen crack serial patch"
18:42:00 <zzo38> Or possibly this: display `shuf -en1 *.jpg`
18:42:48 <fizzie> The name sounds eerily familiar, but I can't recall any details. (Maybe a coping mechanism of some sort?)
18:43:46 <zzo38> fizzie: A keygen or crack is not necessary, it is open source (public domain), although he failed to package it correctly, even when told how to do so.
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18:45:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, one of the first results is "Is SpectateSwamp a real person?"
18:46:18 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: SSDS isn't exactly... a typical desktop search program
18:46:36 <ais523> it involves video cameras
18:47:15 <ais523> an unfortunate domain name
18:47:38 <ais523> and probably not true, given that there are probably about 2.5 billion men, and it's unlikely that the very stupidest would be known
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19:26:17 <Vorpal> <ais523> how dare you! <-- How very unlike your usual safe
19:27:19 <oerjan> ais523's self plays it safe
19:27:21 <Vorpal> <ais523> it involves video cameras <-- eh?
19:27:31 <ais523> Vorpal: I said earlier that you didn't wnat to know
19:27:42 <Vorpal> ais523, conspiracy theory?
19:27:58 <ais523> even without a conspiracy theory
19:28:18 <ais523> I meant, why a desktop search program would involve video cameras
19:28:42 <Vorpal> ais523, so it is just an utterly stupid idea?
19:29:18 <ais523> although the exam answer I discussed in here earlier probably beats it
19:29:20 <Vorpal> ais523, but no I can't think of a reason for video cameras unless you search by body gestures
19:29:20 <oerjan> hey it might, if it searched your _physical_ desktop
19:29:47 <Vorpal> <ais523> although the exam answer I discussed in here earlier probably beats it <-- I missed this, tell me
19:30:46 <ais523> Vorpal: http://pastie.org/pastes/1961483/text?key=xlk9mmy5zajpdmfwtp2fza
19:30:48 <oerjan> <elliott_> I'm usually a Haskell weenie :P <-- except you whine at haskell for not being dependently typed :)
19:31:43 <oerjan> and then you cycle back to haskell because all the dependent languages are unusable for practical programming, right?
19:32:01 <Vorpal> great. maximising suddely decided that it is okay to maximise under the top menu bar of gnome
19:32:26 <Vorpal> could be due to messy dual screen setup with one screen above the other. Not sure
19:33:19 <Vorpal> <ais523> Vorpal: http://pastie.org/pastes/1961483/text?key=xlk9mmy5zajpdmfwtp2fza <--- how... did you phrase that question?
19:33:30 <ais523> it wasn't me who wrote the question
19:33:39 <ais523> and it was phrased very straightforwardly
19:33:46 <ais523> the answer given didn't fit any remotely sane interpretation of the question
19:34:30 <Vorpal> ais523, failed I guess
19:34:54 <ais523> they didn't get any marks for that question
19:35:16 <ais523> I only marked one question, and didn't check to see what marks they got for other questions
19:35:30 <Vorpal> ais523, so someone else marked the other questions?
19:35:45 <ais523> we marked one question each, rather than a portion of the scripts each, to keep things consistent
19:36:01 <oerjan> <elliott_> That... that's really tiny. <-- you are surprised that haskell is compact? :P
19:36:19 <elliott_> oerjan: well istr it being like three thousand lines before but then i remember that that was with my multiple copies hanging around the place..
19:36:28 <Vorpal> oerjan, what was he commenting about
19:36:30 <elliott_> I can see the core thing being a thousand lines
19:36:34 <elliott_> but including the fingerprints??
19:36:40 <elliott_> is not much over a thousand lines in total
19:36:56 <Vorpal> elliott_, so haskell is 9 times as compact as C roughly
19:37:31 <Vorpal> whaaaaat... I started getting weird colour bleeding along the edge of the scanner bed
19:37:42 <Vorpal> think flower power style and you are thinking along the right lines
19:38:03 <elliott_> Vorpal: Well cfunge is a bit more optomized. :p
19:38:14 <elliott_> I plan to implement a Supah Smart fungespace once I have a bunch of fingerprints down, though.
19:38:28 <Vorpal> elliott_, then the code will probably grow yes
19:38:32 <Vorpal> elliott_, what about TRDS?
19:38:38 <Vorpal> elliott_, also good luck beating CCBI
19:38:52 <elliott_> if i can, i'll even do the windows-only ones (for windows only ofc)
19:40:42 * oerjan wonders if optomus was ever correct latin
19:41:04 <oerjan> i vaguely recall seeing some strange vowel changes in those superlatives
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19:43:43 <oerjan> "... probably related to ops "power, resources" (in which case the evolution is from "richest" to "the most esteemed") or to ob "in front of," with superlative suffix *-tumos."
19:43:57 <oerjan> so it may very well have been optumus at one point
19:45:46 <oerjan> i know they have this ridiculously complete latin dictionary at the library but that would involve me actually going there
19:46:02 <elliott_> I disapprove. Phantom Hoover 11:02, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
19:46:02 <elliott_> Disapprove to WHAT? You could be a bit more precise. And since many people have written BF derivates, this is a good extension. Also, in general, it is just an esoteric language like "Ook", so nobody has to APPROVE to an esoteric language. If you have CONSTRUCTIVE critique, please let me know and I will think about how to improve this work. Me personally I like the idea that BF can communicate with other processes/computers to work on a doulbe-I/O ("3D"
19:46:02 <elliott_> ). --87.165.157.233 18:59, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
19:46:09 <elliott_> someone's a bit sensitive about their bf derivative ;D
19:46:51 <Deewiant> MVRS should be relatively easy with your Haskell since you don't have global state
19:46:51 <oerjan> "On the etymology of Latin optumus / optimus and the reflex of PIE " indeed it was
19:46:54 <elliott_> The extension can be implemented in other Brainfuck derivates like ClearBF (ClearBF with NetFuck extension)
19:51:14 <elliott_> "I'll have to admit, I'm totally ignorant on this matter, but I was under the impression that a 32-bit application would still need to treat the address space of graphics memory as a 32-bit integer and the runtime is also generally agnostic to exactly where this memory is stored, which means if you have, say, 3Gb of standard memory used up, you actually can only make use of 1Gb of the video card memory, whether it's shader code or what have you."
19:51:21 <elliott_> ais523: confirm that that's bullcrap?
19:51:27 <oerjan> elliott_: i think you should put quote marks around you talk page quotes, my {{unsigned}} reflex triggered a bit there
19:51:34 <elliott_> i'm reading thedailywtf's forums because... i'm a masochist i guess
19:52:10 <ais523> elliott_: a single process could only access 4GiBytes of memory total without remapping
19:52:15 <ais523> which is quite different from what's written there
19:52:33 <ais523> the shader code would probably be using a different memory map from the main logic of the program, for instance, due to running on a GPU
19:52:49 <ais523> unless it was using a software GPU emulation, like the pure-software versions of Mesa
19:52:49 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, I like the way the guy thinks that networking consists of a 2-way pipe.
19:53:03 <ais523> and if really necessary, it could spin off a child process to access more memory
19:53:26 <ais523> I think Windows XP does genuinely work as described in many versions, but it's to provide an incentive to people to upgrade rather than because it has to work that way
19:53:32 <ais523> (there are versions where it does it correctly)
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19:58:43 <oerjan> hm does that mean GPU running code always counts as a different process to the CPU running one, or not?
20:01:12 <cheater897> oerjan, it's not about process, it's about binary image
20:01:45 <cheater897> a 32 bit architecture can only perform jumps to stuff that's a 32-bit pointer away from the base address... or something like that. i barely know asm.
20:03:54 <oerjan> i'm assuming this is about 32 bit applications running on a 64 bit architecture
20:04:36 <oerjan> which means different processes can map things independently.
20:05:00 <cheater897> a 32-bit architecture can have more than 4gb ram too
20:05:15 <elliott_> not a pure 32-bit architecture by definition.
20:05:35 <oerjan> well ok, but sort of irrelevant here i think
20:05:40 <cheater897> there's someone who's not talking with you elliott
20:06:03 <cheater897> oerjan, well the basic idea is the same
20:06:07 <oerjan> otoh if the GPU can have a different map, can any thread in the process?
20:06:09 <elliott_> yes and there's someone who's nitpicking and wasting everyone's time.
20:06:56 <cheater897> oerjan, i don't think stuff being run on the gpu is seen as a process in windows xp.
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20:07:59 <oerjan> hm maybe, i guess since the gpu is mainly for interacting with video
20:08:33 <oerjan> but nevertheless different process need to share the gpu
20:09:19 <cheater897> well it's a different program, yes. but it's not a process. it's just like the firmware in your network card isn't seen as a process.
20:09:40 <cheater897> it's pretty much a separate computer inside your computer.
20:09:58 <oerjan> maybe it all passes through the kernel
20:10:12 <cheater897> can you define "passes through the kernel"?
20:10:41 <cheater897> the kernel isn't scheduling the program on the gpu
20:10:44 <oerjan> by that i mean user processes don't have permission to run gpu code directly
20:11:19 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, I like the way the guy thinks that networking consists of a 2-way pipe. <-- arguably that is the abstraction that is provided by tcp
20:11:23 <cheater897> i've never programmed gpus, but i remember reading somewhere that it's a big security flaw.
20:11:29 <oerjan> in that case how does the gpu separate code from different processes... ah.
20:11:49 <Phantom_Hoover> There is simply a static connection between two programs.
20:11:50 <cheater897> oerjan, there isn't "code from different processes"
20:11:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, *blink*
20:12:01 <oerjan> ok a big security flaw, i guess that would make sense if the gpu doesn't have a process distinction
20:12:30 <cheater897> either you're running shaders, or you're doing 2d stuff through a driver which runs shaders.
20:12:52 <Vorpal> <ais523> I think Windows XP does genuinely work as described in many versions, but it's to provide an incentive to people to upgrade rather than because it has to work that way <-- eh?
20:13:44 <cheater897> basically you're asking something similar to "how does the hard drive know which program the file came from, otherwise it can't prevent viruses from replicating"
20:15:06 <zzo38> Me and my brother's character now manage to have not only the same number of experience points, but also the same number of hit points. And the same grapple modifier, and even the same weight. However, most things are different.
20:15:50 <Vorpal> aren't grappling rules quite a PITA.
20:17:21 <oerjan> Vorpal: there was some nice lampshading of that in darths & droids
20:18:11 <zzo38> I am the only one in the game that has used grapple so far, I think three times in total so far.
20:18:43 <cheater897> oerjan, i always read that comic book's domain as "darth sand droids"
20:19:07 <cheater897> and it makes me think r2d2 + sand people + darth maul
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20:19:22 <zzo38> I have never made any other melee attacks though. I have used ranged attacks three times, all of them magic, once by accident, and once when I knew it wouldn't hit anyways.
20:20:31 <oerjan> http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0232.html
20:23:32 <pikhq> Hrm. Apparently movie theater chains in the US have started running their projectors dim to save on electricity and bulb replacement costs...
20:23:46 <zzo38> Do you understand the reasons for any of this (apparently strange) things?
20:24:13 <pikhq> So... My shitty LCD monitor may well have better video quality than a theater's setup by now.
20:25:01 <oerjan> http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0343.html and http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0344.html (including the expanded version)
20:25:45 <pikhq> And my cheap-ass PC speakers definitely have better audio quality. (they tend to have very, very poorly calibrated surround sound, with *notable clipping*)
20:26:47 <Vorpal> pikhq, not like that in Sweden
20:26:52 <Vorpal> not sure about light level
20:26:59 <Vorpal> but the sound is usually okay
20:27:37 <pikhq> "AMPLIFY THE SUBWOOFER!" seems to be their attitude.
20:28:33 <olsner> movie sound is usually way too loud here, but otherwise ok
20:29:54 <olsner> kind of: with ear plugs I doubt the quality would be the same, and at these sound levels you really should be using ear plugs...
20:30:33 <pikhq> And the pricing is such that it'd be much cheaper to buy the damned DVD, even if you intend to watch it only once ever...
20:30:43 <Phantom_Hoover> <pikhq> "AMPLIFY THE SUBWOOFER!" seems to be their attitude.
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20:32:26 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: It really, truly isn't the filmmaker's doing.
20:32:46 <oerjan> 00:29:45 <CakeProphet> elliott_: none? regex is pretty easy.
20:32:46 <oerjan> 00:30:07 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Nonsense, they've clearly doubled.
20:32:51 <oerjan> i see no contradiction here
20:33:46 <oerjan> <CakeProphet> true, but for most simple tasks regex beats alternatives. And really in #esolang you can't complain about awkward syntax. :D
20:34:03 <oerjan> you realize most esolangs have a completely trivial syntax, parserly speaking
20:34:45 <oerjan> i mean a lot of brainfuck implementers don't even bother separating parsing and running...
20:35:48 <olsner> parsing is probably the most boring part of implementing any language
20:36:44 <pikhq> Parsing Brainfuck is pretty dang trivial, though.
20:37:06 <pikhq> Even hand-writing a recursive descent parser isn't much effort.
20:37:55 <oerjan> it's just barely complicated enough not to be regular
20:38:52 <olsner> implementing brainfuck you barely even need a parser
20:39:20 <pikhq> You can actually compile it with sed if you don't mind having a trivial compiler.
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20:39:49 <pikhq> You only really *need* a parser for it if you want to do optimisations.
20:40:01 <pikhq> (beyond the obvious RLE optimisations and such, that is)
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20:42:17 <elliott_> this channel is about programming,
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20:50:11 <Phantom_Hoover> You know, the more I listen to it the more I am convinced that the Homestuck music is primarily an exercise in combinatorics.
20:50:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Most of the songs are either leitmotifs or are recombinations of leitmotifs.
20:51:22 <Phantom_Hoover> You're probably going to have a hard time finding anyone who can speak Spanish around here.
20:51:39 <oerjan> <ais523> I pity any logreaders who stumble across this
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20:52:11 * oerjan wanted to cash in some pity
20:55:06 <oerjan> that was today. maybe that doesn't count as stumbling...
20:55:47 <oerjan> i'm not sure if anyone but elliott does random logreading
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20:58:13 <oerjan> <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: We should make one for mathematicians too, although it might be hard to fit "The proof of this is left as an exercise to the reader." on.
20:58:30 <oerjan> maybe an end of proof square...
20:58:42 <Phantom_Hoover> <oerjan> i'm not sure if anyone but elliott does random logreading
20:58:56 <oerjan> wait elliott actually went to bed?
20:58:59 <Phantom_Hoover> I sometimes do when trapped in Ireland with nothing but the hg logs.
20:59:20 <oerjan> you are frequently trapped in ireland, then?
20:59:40 <Phantom_Hoover> He seems to have been up all night crying into his keyboard at Sgeo_ reading Homestuck.
21:00:11 <Phantom_Hoover> And yes, because my parents have this strange urge to spend time with their family.
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21:01:32 <monqy> sssssssssssssssssssssssss
21:10:27 <zzo38> Someone told me that TeXnicard is a bad program and I am bad at user interface design, because the description on the repository mentions IRC. Like, what? How does mentioning IRC on the repository (not in the program itself!) make it a bad program?
21:11:27 <zzo38> And why do some people come in this channel they try to speak Spanish or whatever and cannot understand the other things?
21:14:37 <zzo38> Do you know the game "End is a Finnish word"?
21:17:08 <oerjan> no, but i strongly doubt that end is a finnish word.
21:17:30 <oerjan> (seeing as it's ending in a consonant combination)
21:18:07 <zzo38> oerjan: I also doubt it. That isn't the point of the game. You write things on a chalkboard such as "End is a Finnish word", "Boolean is a Andoran word", and so on; they do not have to be correct statements.
21:18:36 <oerjan> boolean being andorran sounds more likely
21:20:22 <oerjan> idook is clearly an eskimo word
21:21:13 <oerjan> ui is probably hawaiian
21:21:37 <zzo38> You seem to not understanding this game
21:21:39 <oerjan> i doubt you could _get_ more japanese than that
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21:21:51 <zzo38> Now you are making a different game.
21:21:54 <oerjan> ...which is why i'm making one up
21:22:15 <zzo38> What algorithm is used for making up these words?
21:22:24 <EgoBot> haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!)
21:23:11 <oerjan> iqfbs, i got nothing. maybe related to iqbal?
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21:24:30 <zzo38> I have read of a bit different algorithm that uses d6 and d20 dice, which I have used to make up the name of my D&D characters; the last time I used it, I came up with the name "BIDAKIQUOOD"
21:24:40 <oerjan> @hoogle Int -> [a] -> IO [a]
21:24:40 <lambdabot> Data.List drop :: Int -> [a] -> [a]
21:25:00 <zzo38> The one with dice is also possible to come up with a blank name, with a single letter name, or any length at all.
21:25:07 <oerjan> looks like that has a vowel preference
21:25:30 <oerjan> or maybe a cv syllable pattern
21:25:41 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, the algorithm with dice does have a vowel preference. d6 is used to select what kind (consonant, vowel, end), d6 selects vowels, and d20 selects consonants.
21:26:03 <oerjan> zzo38: well that haskell code is for acronyms, not names, so pronouncability isn't an issue
21:26:40 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, I guessed, that is what "acro" might be short for
21:27:31 <zzo38> And I can see what the code does even though I do not know how to program anything in Haskell at all
21:28:11 <oerjan> i guess the pick definition above could easily be used to make your version too (in fact it's a little surprising nothing like pick is in the haskell Data.Random library
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21:29:06 <zzo38> But the way the one with dice works, if you roll 6 on the first d6 roll for each letter, is the end of the word, otherwise you continue.
21:30:01 <oerjan> and if you roll 6 immediately you get a length 0 word?
21:30:31 <zzo38> I know, this algorithm is not a particularly good one, but someone invented it and I still used it to make up the names
21:31:38 <zzo38> Roll 1d6, if 6, stop. If 1 2 3, make a vowel. If 4 5, make consonant. For vowel, 1d6 makes 1=A 2=E 3=I 4=O 5=U 6=Y, for consonant, 1d20 makes all the other letters in alphabetical order 1=B to 20=Z.
21:34:44 <oerjan> !haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) : [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:37:26 <oerjan> !haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word :: IO String; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) : [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:38:03 <oerjan> !haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word :: IO String; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) : [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:39:37 <oerjan> !haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word :: IO String; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) ++ [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:40:04 <oerjan> EgoBot seems to be straining
21:41:03 <zzo38> When typing !haskell by itself I got a DCC CHAT message, when I connected by "nc codu.org 10078" I got "<interactive>:1:116: Not in scope: `Main.main'"
21:41:20 <zzo38> See if you have any such message?
21:41:33 <oerjan> i have got several, although not for the last one
21:41:39 <oerjan> it may have just timed out
21:41:57 <oerjan> !haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word :: IO String; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) ++ [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:42:25 <zzo38> I also programmed this algorithm in TI-92 calculator as well
21:42:38 <oerjan> !haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) ++ [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:42:57 <zzo38> !haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word :: IO String; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) ++ [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:43:10 <oerjan> zzo38: heh, i think i programmed a name generator on my hp-28 once
21:43:13 <zzo38> !haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word :: IO String; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) ++ [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:43:22 <oerjan> probably not the same algorithm
21:43:33 <oerjan> it seems like it simply times out occasionally
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21:43:37 <zzo38> Can you save the program in EgoBot?
21:44:01 <oerjan> !addinterp simplename haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn =<< word; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) ++ [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:44:02 <EgoBot> Interpreter simplename installed.
21:44:24 <oerjan> they don't look very long these names
21:44:54 <zzo38> Sometimes they do get longer, although maybe it is too slow to make longer names I don't know
21:45:23 <zzo38> See? Now it is longer.
21:45:48 <zzo38> I will use that name if I need to make up the next my D&D character.
21:45:56 <oerjan> seems not, i found it unlikely that the timeout was because of the running time anyway ( EgoBot recompiles each time, and that's probably what takes time )
21:46:35 <zzo38> If you save it, will it still recompile each time?
21:47:26 <oerjan> EgoBot doesn't know the difference between compilers and interpreters
21:48:07 <zzo38> Can you make it compile only once if put on HackEgo?
21:48:31 <oerjan> oh wait i realized - it's not timeout, it's just when it generates an empty string
21:48:31 <zzo38> My current character does psionics and pact magic. I like the "Subjunctive TV" kind of pact magic.
21:48:51 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, that is 1/6 to do so
21:48:53 <oerjan> EgoBot makes no output when the program doesn't
21:51:44 <oerjan> that's a bit confusing, maybe change it to check after generating the letter
21:51:59 <zzo38> Or, terminate with a period, is another way
21:52:15 <EgoBot> Interpreter simplename deleted.
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21:52:47 <oerjan> !addinterp simplename haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!); main = putStrLn . (++".") =<< word; word = join . pick $ replicate 3 (liftM2 (:) vowel word) ++ replicate 2 (liftM2 (:) consonant word) ++ [return ""]; vowel = pick "AEIOUY"; consonant = pick "BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"
21:52:48 <EgoBot> Interpreter simplename installed.
21:59:18 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> It seems to have aroused EMOTIONS in ais, so it must be IMPORTANT. <-- we are doomed, aren't we
22:06:00 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, we are facing an imminent invasion of wind-blown leaves, it appears.
22:06:36 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that would be even worse than the ash
22:06:55 <Vorpal> imagine what this would do to aircrafts
22:06:56 <oerjan> well we just had the rapture, so a little general destruction is to be expected
22:07:27 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, indeed. The situation looks dire to say the least.
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22:11:06 <zzo38> And the video artifacts.
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22:23:49 <zzo38> I was reading a book about shogi once, most things written there are reasonable, except that one sentence ended with "and softee, softee catchee monkey." and it didn't match the rest of that sentence.
22:25:19 <oerjan> sounds like some wikipedia vandalism
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22:25:54 <zzo38> Maybe some Wikipedia vandalism has like that, but this was a book
22:27:33 <zzo38> No, it is a normal book by one author.
22:39:52 <Sgeo_> asdfhashdflaksdfajdfh stupid wikia
22:40:31 <Phantom_Hoover> I am sorry is there any other adjective that can precede 'Wikia'?
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