00:02:08 -!- myndzi has joined. 00:04:08 -!- pumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:04:20 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 00:04:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:13:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:18:59 I am highly amused by Homestuck reaction videos 00:54:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:01:47 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:03:08 -!- ralc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:41:22 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:01:50 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:15:59 -!- augur has joined. 02:22:28 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:26:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:34:06 -!- myndzi has joined. 03:08:47 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:10:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:15:38 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:38:44 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 03:40:43 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:43:43 -!- augur has joined. 04:23:12 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 04:34:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:35:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:36:39 what's the difference between $ and . and not having either in haskell? 04:36:44 I seem to have some mental confusion over them 04:37:16 well you can define them easily if you don't have them 04:37:40 (f . g) x = f (g x) 04:37:47 f $ x = f x 04:38:03 the confusion comes from the associativity of ($) 04:38:04 probably 04:38:05 infixr 0 $ 04:38:09 f $ g $ h $ x 04:38:18 is equivalent to f . g . h $ x 04:38:44 f $ (g $ (h $ x)) 04:38:48 (f . g . h) $ x 04:39:14 so on one hand, you're just doing boring function application (and avoiding a couple of parentheses in some cases) 04:39:23 the other you're building a reusable "function chain" 04:39:29 in the latter case 04:39:32 you could easily say 04:39:36 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:39:39 newFunction = f . g . h 04:39:47 and refactor the other expression to be newFunction x 04:40:01 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 04:41:38 what if I said newFunction = f $ g $ h $ 04:42:32 you can't write sections like that 04:42:44 :t (?f $ ?g $ ?h $) 04:42:45 The operator `$' [infixr 0] of a section 04:42:45 must have lower precedence than that of the operand, 04:42:45 namely `$' [infixr 0] 04:43:04 What you're thinking of is more like ((f $ g $ h) $) 04:43:15 :t ((?f $ ?g $ ?h) $) 04:43:15 also, in general the x may not be as simple as a single operand 04:43:15 forall a b a1 b1. (?h::a, ?g::a -> b, ?f::b -> a1 -> b1) => a1 -> b1 04:43:19 hm! 04:43:29 pikhq_: that doesn't work 04:43:42 copumpkin: Baah. 04:43:45 :P 04:43:53 it's a missing flexibility in sections that might have been useful to have 04:44:09 although not for that particular case 04:44:30 but say it's annoying to have to write ((f . g) .) instead of (f . g .) 04:46:08 and you might have wanted (2 + 3 *) 04:47:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:47:54 (btw (. f . g) is fine, but both cannot be regardless of how you define .'s associativity) 04:50:00 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:52:26 -!- pukey has joined. 04:54:58 Just took 300mg melatonin 04:55:08 I know no one cares, and I don't care that no one cares. 04:55:33 this is a severe violation of your privacy, i'm afraid i may have to ban you 05:01:37 300 mg melatonin is going to make you teh greatest rockstar ever. 05:11:58 -!- pukey has left. 05:12:05 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:15:01 It's a bit weird having my computer actually wired up for TV watching. 05:15:30 "I'm really bored... Maybe I'll watch some TV or something. [1 minute later] Oh, right, TV sucks." 05:15:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:18:42 Back to Youtube with me. 05:22:27 So, according to Harold Camping, it was a spiritual rapture, the world's ending in 5 months 05:22:51 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_apocalypse_saturday 05:23:42 'spiritual rapture' 05:23:51 was the earthquake metaphorical too? 05:24:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:25:09 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:26:18 He may have used the term "Judgement Day", not "rapture" 05:26:21 erm 05:42:47 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:46:55 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:52:57 -!- augur has joined. 05:55:10 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:55:21 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:55:29 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:56:42 This means that $foo and @foo are two different variables. It also means that $foo[1] is a part of @foo, not a part of $foo. This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird 05:56:46 I lol'd. 06:02:35 -!- olsner has joined. 06:05:07 -!- aune_ has quit (Quit: Hath Deprated). 06:05:20 CakeProphet: Perling? 06:05:26 pikhq_: yes, quite a bit these days. 06:05:49 it's the most fun I've had programming in a while. 06:08:44 Perl has a lot of interesting concepts. Like context, for example 06:09:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:18:41 Use of Termnology for Memorable Paper Titles: A Case Study: "The Non-Bayesian Restless Multi-Armed Bandit: A Case of Near-logarithmic Regret" 06:18:42 Perl has every concept. 06:19:57 logarithmic regret doesn't sound too bad 06:20:06 now if it were exponential... 06:20:14 title doesn't have enough references to movies 06:20:16 did not read paper 06:20:50 the Good, the Bad, and the Aversion to papers whos' titles fail to reference movies 06:23:28 http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Contextual-Return-0.003001/lib/Contextual/Return.pm 06:23:38 oh god... and here I thought there was only list, scalar, and void context. 06:30:57 hmm, I'm actually considering to temporarily set aside my hate for perl to play with that thing 06:33:41 olsner: I think you should only love Perl before you try to use that particular module. 06:34:02 what is it -for- 06:34:03 for your own sake. 06:34:31 Patashu: It allows you to control the behavior/return-value of a subroutine based on its calling context. 06:34:51 oh, as in...whether the result is going into a variable or not? 06:34:51 wantarray is a built-in that does something similar, but that module has a few more features for special contexts. 06:35:01 that's scalar and void 06:35:04 list is when it's being applied over a list? 06:35:14 list is when it's in.... a list context. 06:35:16 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:35:19 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:35:19 the code expects a list, basically. 06:35:26 hmm, interesting 06:35:34 CakeProphet: eek! I don't want to use the rest of perl, only the contextual returns 06:35:34 @list = my_sub(); 06:35:34 No module "= my_sub();" loaded 06:35:36 is a list context. 06:36:28 Patashu: For a Fistful of Papers 06:36:35 as is for(my_sub()) and grep !/\.\.?/, my_sub() 06:37:53 a lot of Perl built-ins and operators return different things in different contexts. 06:40:16 for example, m/regex/ returns true or false in scalar context if the regex matches a string, but in list context it returns a list of all the captured groups. 06:41:40 this is...interesting 06:41:51 Oh, goody. Harold Camping was apparently off by 5 months. 06:42:18 The rapture will happen on 2011-10-21T18:00. 06:42:46 haha 06:42:49 link? 06:43:17 http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/radio-host-says-worlds-955120.html 06:43:28 for(`ls directory`) {my ($name, $extension) = m/(.*?)\.(.*?)/; ...} 06:43:41 my ($var,$list) = ... is list context. 06:43:59 actually that should be ls -1 directory 06:43:59 Sorry, more crazy than just "he was off by 5 months". 06:44:20 Rather, the rapture wasn't *really* going to happen, but we have all been judged, and the world will end 2011-10-21T18:00. 06:44:37 ...lol 06:47:27 Patashu: yes, Perl is interesting. I'd recommend giving it a look sometime. 06:49:32 Is contexts one of the reasons they invented Perl-golf? 06:51:14 I'd say it's one of many reasons, yes. 06:51:37 another reason would be $_ 06:52:34 Yes, that would also be one. 06:59:07 I do know AWK and what you described about m/regex/ seems similar to something in AWK as well. In AWK, something like /regex/ matches against $0 and is boolean, although some built-ins take regular expressions as arguments in which case it does that instead. You cannot make your own functions that take regular expressions as arguments, in AWK. 06:59:38 hmmm, interesting. 06:59:49 can you specify a non-default string to match? 07:00:16 Yes, using the ~ operator; it takes a regular expression as one of its arguments. 07:00:19 by default perl does m// on $_, but not if you use the =~ operator. 07:00:27 yeah that's awk inspired for sure. 07:04:14 and the m is optional actually. 07:06:11 zzo38: so, if I know Perl, is there any reason I'd want to use awk instead? 07:08:44 CakeProphet: I don't know. Probably because awk is standard in UNIX and for the kind of things that awk is good for. 07:09:03 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:09:37 I wonder if, the Deadfish challenge in anarchy golf, the shortest AWK submission is similar to the shortest Perl submission? 07:10:06 they're likely very similar since it's all string processing. 07:10:22 so, regex. 07:11:49 You try submitting a Perl code to that challenge (I would advise to always select "Open code statistics", although it is not required). 07:11:56 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Deadfish 07:12:35 (If you push "use form" then you can enter the code on the HTML form text area, otherwise you send a file with the correct extension) 07:13:00 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 07:13:12 ...woah Ruby. 07:13:33 I saw def and I thought "Python..?" then I saw // and I thought "...Perl?" 07:13:45 and of course, Python + Perl = Ruby 07:13:51 ..right? 07:14:25 I don't know. 07:14:29 speaking of which, now that I've got Perl down I should probably learn Ruby. 07:15:19 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:15:36 hmmm.. 07:15:58 But if you are interested, try submitting to the code golf challenge(s), using whichever programming language(s) you know. 07:16:47 I code golfed in java once 07:16:51 For that particular challenge, I am unbeat at AWK but my C codes are not quite short enough. 07:16:51 It's tough 07:18:08 Patashu: They have Java, there, too. 07:21:06 xkcd-sucks is now deliberately trying to tick people off. Or, well, it's so obvious that they're joking that it won't tick people off. Maybe 07:22:25 Patashu: What are some of your opinions of making code-golf with Java? 07:23:13 zzo38: If it comes short of 2 megs, it's successful. :P 07:23:47 Yes, they do have Java 07:23:49 That's why I used it :Bv 07:24:18 My opinion on codegolfing in Java is: class A{static{try{for(int i=0,j,z=System.in.read()&7,k=z*6-2;i3*Math.max(z-i-1,i-3*z)?(i*3+j)%6:5));System.out.println();}}catch(Exception e){}}} 07:24:24 Yeah, pretty much that 07:24:35 Which is a code for what? 07:24:40 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?hexagon+2nd+fixed 07:24:42 Priting hexagons 07:25:07 Have you used any of the other programming languages available there? If so, which ones? 07:25:18 while(<>){s/i/$x++/e;$x-- if /s/&&$x!=0;s/s/$x**=2/e;s/o/print $x/e;last if /h/;$x=0 if $x==256} 07:25:47 Not yet, but I can tell you anyway that codegolfing in java is very cumbersome because it doesn't have any native language constructs for common idioms like other languages do 07:26:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 07:26:35 zzo38: that's the shortest Perl gold I've got for deadfish 07:26:36 Doing something as simple as IO is a pain 07:26:44 *golf 07:26:54 CakeProphet: You can send to the form directly; all codes are revealed in 4 days 07:27:06 hmmm, okay. 07:27:16 what were you saying about the open code statistics again? 07:27:26 also, I'm going to wait and see if I can find something to remove. 07:27:31 or change. 07:27:31 You should select it (make sure it is checkmark). 07:27:52 ...I should also test that it works. 07:28:31 CakeProphet: Also, if you post, you can post another one later and if it has the same name it will override if shorter. If you do not want that, add something in parentheses after your name in case you want multiple submissions. Also, the server will test that it works automatically (if it doesn't, the error messages that it caused will be displayed) 07:28:57 hmmm, okay 07:30:02 I'm saving one character by using the s/i/$x++/e trick instead of using $x++ if /i/ :D 07:30:13 unless Perl lets you do something horrible like $x++if/i/ 07:30:28 You can try 07:30:44 is that...are you embedding an increment in an s/old/new? 07:30:46 I need to learn perl 07:31:09 or does / mean something else 07:31:10 I think /e at the end makes it so that you can do that 07:31:18 Patashu: yes I am. 07:31:30 the e option at the end allows you to use Perl code as the replacement string 07:31:38 it's evaluated and then the result is substituted 07:33:07 but I could find a good way to use it for $x-- so I just wrote it out as an if. 07:33:10 *couldn't 07:33:44 ah and I could do $x*=$x==256 07:35:58 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:36:12 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:36:16 while(<>){s/i/$x++/e;$x-- if /s/&&$x!=0;s/s/$x**=2/e;s/o/print $x/e;/h/&&last;$x*=$x==256} 07:36:27 also changed last if /h/ to /h/&&last 07:38:21 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:38:41 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 07:38:47 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 07:41:21 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 07:42:23 hmmm, the s///e doesn't seem to be working though 07:43:50 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 07:44:38 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 07:45:04 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 07:49:34 alright this seems to work: while(<>){/i/&&$x++;/d/&&$x!=0&&$x--;/o/&&print$x;/s/&&($x**=2);/h/&&last;$x*=$x!=256} 07:49:38 and is shorter 07:50:09 87 bytes. 07:53:47 The shortest is 50 bytes. The shortest AWK code is 39 bytes and is the one I wrote by myself. 07:54:17 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:54:44 Also, I think it is allowed to place options on the shebang line, although unlike real Perl-golf, the "#!perl" is still counted. 07:54:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:56:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:56:41 while(<>){/i/&&$x++;/d/&&$x!=0&&$x--;/o/&&print$x;$x**=2if/s/;/h/&&last;$x*=$x!=256} 07:56:42 | 07:56:42 |\ 07:56:44 85 07:57:00 thanks myndzi 07:57:14 ...lolwhut 07:57:51 hmmm... I'm not sure a shebang line could give me too many byte reductions. 07:58:37 actually wait 07:58:40 #!perl -n 07:59:04 would allow me to remove the while(<>){} compeltely. 1 byte lost. 07:59:48 Remember a line break is also required, and that if you use the form, it makes CRLF; you need to use a send file to make only LF. 07:59:58 hmmm, okay. 08:00:01 good to know. 08:02:33 hmmm... 08:06:28 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 08:09:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:10:22 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:13:05 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 08:13:08 I don't know if I can go lower than 84 bytes on this one: 08:13:10 while(<>){/i/&&$x++;/d/&&$x!=0&&$x--;/o/&&print$x;$x**=2if/s/;/h/&&last;$x*=$x!=256} 08:13:10 | 08:13:11 /| 08:13:15 any suggestions? 08:13:28 er... wait that's not right. 08:13:41 replace the while loop with a #!perl -n line at the top 08:14:19 -!- Faaizaan has left. 08:15:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:15:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:16:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:18:14 ....oh 08:18:21 it wants output on individual lines. 08:18:33 ffuuu.. 08:19:23 so I'm up to 88 now 08:24:42 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:25:22 Something I think missing from AWK is something like this: /^Say "(.*)"$/{print \1} 08:34:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:34:07 zzo38: is that Perl? 08:34:14 oh... I see 08:34:18 you just used {} isntead of ; 08:34:41 actually outside of the regex itself you use $1 instead of \1 08:35:24 In AWK, $1 refers to the first field of the current record. 08:35:37 Not necessarily what is matched by () in regular expressions. 08:35:57 oh, that's pseudo-AWK then? 08:35:58 Which is why I suggest \ instead of $ for this case 08:36:04 CakeProphet: Yes. 08:37:03 oh wow... I set the record at 94 bytes. 08:37:25 I thought I did rather poorly since my initial estimate was 84, but I had to make some changes to account for output formatting 08:38:39 $x=0;while(<>){/i/&&$x++;/d/&&$x!=0&&$x--;/o/&&print"$x\n";$x**=2if/s/;/h/&&last;$x*=$x!=256} 08:38:39 | 08:38:40 /| 08:38:53 ...I have no clue what that bot is doing 08:39:42 it looks like it's pointing to the first o 08:39:45 oh wait 08:39:48 /o/ 08:39:49 | 08:39:49 /| 08:39:50 yep 08:39:53 it's a dude dancing 08:39:55 \o/ 08:39:56 | 08:39:56 /< 08:39:58 \o\ 08:39:58 | 08:39:59 /| 08:40:01 /o\ 08:40:02 | 08:40:02 /| 08:40:07 :D 08:40:39 so either there's a) no one using Perl in this contest b) no expert Perl golfers in this contest c) I am an expert Perl golfer. 08:40:52 you mean on golf.shinh.org ? 08:40:56 yes 08:41:01 that place should be packed with ridiculous golfers 08:41:13 oh, it's one of the problems that only just got added 08:41:16 maybe they haven't seen it yet 08:41:32 I'm sure there's a smaller way to do it 08:41:39 possibly using eval 08:42:31 keep in mind that it only needs to support the cases that it tests for 08:42:43 so I could omit the halt probably? 08:42:57 CakeProphet: Yes you can, there is EOF at the end. 08:43:18 if sample input i becomes sample output i for i = 1, 2, 3 golf.shinh.org won't care if it implements deadfish or not 08:43:29 for instance, my solution to hexagons only works for odd values 08:43:33 because it only tests odd values 08:43:38 that allowed me to shave off a lot of bytes 08:44:19 ...won't they like, look for cheating though? 08:44:24 No 08:44:26 No one looks for cheating 08:44:31 It's anarchic golf, after all ;) 08:44:38 Btw, you said you had 94 bytes? 08:44:43 CakeProphet: No, although if you want, you can make multiple submissions you can put stuff after your name such as (cheat) for cheating entries and so on 08:44:44 down to 84 now with the halt removed. 08:44:55 According to the page the shortest perl solution is 50 bytes and the shortest awk solution is 39 bytes 08:44:57 so it can be done very short 08:45:11 oh really? why does it say "and it's a new record!"? 08:45:14 39 bytes in GoldScript and xgawk too, how about that 08:45:17 Because it's a new record for -you- 08:45:22 It's just to keep track of your improvements 08:45:22 ...oh, lame. :P 08:45:29 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Deadfish 08:45:32 Scroll down to language ranking 08:46:03 ...what the hell, 50 bytes... 08:47:40 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:47:52 Think of things like: the bitwise relationship between the values you read 08:48:03 I would consider it not cheating if you check for EOF instead of the "h" to halt, but it is cheating if other valid inputs fail to work. I suggest submitting cheating entries anyways but adding (cheat) after your name. 08:48:08 mine is 7th in Perl. 08:48:18 Patashu: I used that in the C code. 08:48:26 For instance, I saw a codegolfed brainfuck interpreter. It takes the modulo 2 of the input, because + and - are adjacent in the code and have opposite effects 08:48:34 If i and o have a similar relationship... 08:49:41 I thought (cheat) was only used for insane exploits? 08:50:31 awww, ais beat me.. 08:50:49 for instance, http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Quine/eban%28cheat%29_1182659566&rb 08:51:09 Patashu: Well, I guess different people have different opinion what to use it for; I suggest using (cheat) if other valid inputs fail to produce valid outputs. 08:51:21 Or else, use (embed) or (specific) in that case. 08:51:45 In the case of the quine, reading your own file is considered cheating, too, of course. 08:51:52 embed is where the output is contained within the code 08:52:01 I'm not aware of a tag for only solving the specific sample inputs, because it's the expected way 08:52:16 haha, erlang is the worst. If I knew Erlang I would try to beat the record on that one 08:52:32 If you do not want a tag for only solving the specific sample inputs, then you could instead use (genuine) to say it works on all valid inputs. 08:52:41 I like that more 08:52:52 I think I'll use it if I pick up code golfing again 08:54:01 For the reason of these kind of tags used in different ways (as well as just to make sure of things), I dislike endless problems. 08:54:26 zzo38: we should write something better than golfscript for golfing. with more operators. 08:54:40 better than golfscript? it's called flogscript 08:54:48 CakeProphet: I have had some idea for some binary file code golf 08:54:56 lol, binary golfscript 08:55:00 Patashu: Better in some cases, worse in others, equally good in others. 08:55:09 reverse base 64 golfscript and call it a new language? 08:55:23 25% smaller! *wink wink* 08:55:30 Patashu: I don't mean quite like that. 08:57:16 well, if you actually shrunk the number of operators you could fit two on a byte and then have an operator for each hex digit 08:57:48 that's basically my joke 08:58:24 In fact, sometimes vi or z80 is the shortest solution, shorter than the GolfScript and FlogScript codes. 08:58:33 isn't z80 assembly? 08:58:37 so of course it's smaller 08:58:42 hmm... 09:00:01 For the printer oriented banner problem, my vi solution is shortest of all of them. 09:00:59 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?PrinterOriented+Banner Note that "exec is denied" does not affect shell scripts, and only partially affects vi. 09:01:47 oh wait.... 09:01:52 all the short versions are people managing to call it anyway? 09:01:53 I just realized something I could try. 09:02:00 yeah 09:04:23 Patashu: Yes, although there is one difficulty being that it is not in PATH, even though the program is installed. And the C code does read the banner program without executing it. The other difficulty is that spaces are added to the end of the line and the problem requires it without the trailing spaces. 09:04:40 Both are not too difficult to correct. 09:05:00 ha, changing my while to a for shaved 2 bytes. :D 09:05:10 \o/ 09:05:11 | 09:05:11 |\ 09:06:46 so I wonder what kind of system they're running on that website. 09:07:19 essentially, I'm wondering if I could use system commands in Perl on the server. I doubt it. 09:07:48 and it's probably chrooted or something. 09:08:02 CakeProphet: Depends. 09:08:17 the golf.shinh exploits are the best 09:08:18 There were two directories where we can write permanent files and one of this was used in http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?27c3_Generate+C . I've already fixed the permission of this directory and removed the entries. Thanks 27c3 guys for finding this issue! 09:08:23 I can't buy high-temperature superconductors over the internet? 09:08:27 What is this crap? 09:08:27 there was some system V exploit someone made to communicate between programs that was fixed ages ago 09:09:12 http://github.com/shinh/ags apparently this is what it runs 09:10:21 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 09:16:03 I love this: Tim LaHaye, co-author of the best-selling "Left Behind" novels about the end times, recently called Camping's prediction "not only bizarre but 100 percent wrong!" He cited the Bible verse Matthew 24:36, "but about that day or hour no one knows" except God. 09:16:07 even the left behind writers know better 09:18:33 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:20:29 Know what better? 09:21:44 know better than to set a date 09:22:58 The "Count asterisks" problem, I invented it and designed it with a cheat. I don't know who can notice right away the cheat and who doesn't. 09:23:14 So basically God isn't even going to organise his armies ahead of time for the apocalypse? 09:23:14 The angels will just be sitting around and one day suddenly there'll be all these Christians everywhere? 09:23:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:23:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:23:41 I'm pretty sure he has a contingent set aside for permanent end of the world readiness 09:23:45 like how the army has swat teams 09:25:33 Patashu: I also agree that the left behind writers did know better than to set a date. One thing it can be determined by the logic, the other is that it even says so in the Bible itself! 09:26:28 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi). 09:26:32 Besides, how come people never set an end times prediction more than a lifetime away? 09:26:40 -!- cheater__ has joined. 09:26:42 If the bible self-evidently set it, then surely it would have been in the far future at some point 09:27:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 09:28:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 09:28:30 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 09:28:35 -!- cheater__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:29:02 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Client Quit). 09:35:48 https://github.com/shinh/ags/blob/master/be/modules/sandbox.c this looks complicated as 09:46:28 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 09:56:08 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 10:00:31 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:01:05 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 10:06:18 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi). 10:06:40 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 10:09:40 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Client Quit). 10:14:43 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 10:16:17 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:21:57 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi). 10:22:37 down to 78 bytes on Perl. 10:30:15 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 10:30:48 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:30:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:35:54 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:40:47 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi). 11:02:24 -!- ralc has joined. 11:08:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:08:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 11:08:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:11:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:34:25 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 11:39:33 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi). 11:45:40 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:46:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:46:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:55:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:55:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:55:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 11:55:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:57:29 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 11:59:27 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Client Quit). 12:06:46 -!- cheater_ has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:07:12 -!- cheater__ has joined. 12:11:04 ha! 12:12:38 i've come up with a linux kernel quine 12:16:04 well i guess it's actually a GNU kernel quine 12:20:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:21:46 how does it work? 12:22:07 -!- augur has joined. 12:24:02 creating wiki entry 12:35:04 -!- cheater__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:40:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:42:43 -!- cheater__ has joined. 12:51:56 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/GNU_Operating_System 12:56:27 so it's a file IO quine? 12:56:40 we really need some place to file "esoteric applications of typically non-esoteric languages" on the wiki 12:58:14 -!- ralc has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:59:04 -!- Vorpal has joined. 12:59:19 ais523: but that's an esolang. no one programs for the kernel shebang interpreter. 12:59:29 ais523: they just copy-paste. 12:59:54 that isn't programming for the shebang interpreter, though 13:00:07 it's an awk program 13:00:14 with a shebang so that it will be invoked under awk 13:00:20 you might as well just do #!/usr/bin/cat 13:03:10 what I'm saying is, you're invoking external programs there 13:03:35 it's like writing "system '/usr/bin/ruby'" and using it as a proof that Perl is Turing-complete 13:03:41 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:04:45 also, it does contain commands to read the source file! #! provides the source file as an argument to something, and /usr/bin/awk interprets its argument as a file to read 13:08:44 that isn't programming for the shebang interpreter, though <-- hm would that be possible though 13:08:48 I doubt it 13:08:58 I don't think it's intelligent enough 13:09:04 right 13:09:08 hmm, if you do #!/tmp/a and save it as /tmp/a 13:09:11 then chmod it executable 13:09:15 do you get an infinite loop? 13:09:16 * ais523 checks 13:09:37 oh, of course not 13:09:41 or, hmm 13:09:49 all that happened was that it went back to command prompt immediately 13:09:51 * ais523 straces it 13:09:56 * ais523 has quit (Connection reset by peer) 13:09:58 ;) 13:10:21 ais523, I doubt strace will help, it will likely never leave the kernel 13:10:45 ais523, can the #! interpreter even recurse at all? 13:10:55 -!- ralc has joined. 13:10:57 ah, that's an interesting point 13:11:11 I assumed it would drop to userspace at some point, but semantically, that's a kernelspace infinite loop 13:11:26 (of course, if it were actually /interpreted/ as one it'd be a trivial DoS vulnerability 13:11:28 ) 13:11:32 ais523, I mean, what happens if you do /tmp/b containing #!/bin/bash\nbash "$@" and then put /tmp/b as an interpreter for another program 13:14:01 ais523, I mean, what happens if you do /tmp/b containing #!/bin/bash\nbash "$@" and then put /tmp/b as an interpreter for another program <-- seems it works 13:14:11 Vorpal: as in, you get an infinite loop? 13:14:13 ais523, no 13:14:14 or do you get a forkbomb? 13:14:24 ais523, as in in my test it prints foo 13:14:28 ah 13:14:34 ais523, I just did finite recursion 13:14:59 ais523, anyway, infinite recursion between two different interpreters might work. Probably not 13:15:14 ais523, also I assume there is a finite length for such chains of interpreting 13:15:31 Vorpal: that isn't an infinite chain, though, it's only two tiers 13:15:32 ais523: it's programming for the shebang interpreter. 13:15:38 ais523, indeed 13:15:41 as it goes into userspace after loading bash 13:15:43 ais523: refresh the page, i have made a simpler quine. 13:15:45 cheater__: no, it isn't 13:15:48 ais523, so we know it allows at least two tires 13:15:48 it's programming for awk 13:15:58 err 13:16:00 tiers* 13:16:01 your page would be vaguely interesting if it was even remotely factually correct 13:16:06 but it isn't 13:16:08 #!/bin/cat is not awk 13:16:52 cheater__: s/made a simpler quine/copied the quine I gave in the channel/? 13:16:57 and all cat programs are quines 13:17:00 ? 13:17:07 i didn't read that 13:17:29 also, your line was wrong, because cat isn't in /usr/bin on many systems 13:17:35 well, OK 13:17:43 in fact i don't know a system where it's in /usr/bin but i hadn't searched. 13:17:46 even so, though, it has basically nothing to do with the shebang interpreter 13:17:54 cheater__: DJGPP 13:18:07 I keep getting directories for executables wrong because I'm used to DJGPP 13:18:07 how does it not 13:18:20 the shebang interpreter is what passes the file name of the script being executed 13:18:21 because it's not the shebang interp that's doing the printing, but an external progam 13:18:35 yes, that's why it's a quine for the GNU OS 13:18:40 not for the GNU shebang interpreter 13:19:16 quines are trivial with file IO though 13:19:30 never said it's complicated 13:21:48 * Vorpal ponders the possibilities of a /bin/cd instead of having it as a builtin in the shell 13:21:59 I can see how it could be done, but it would be utterly messy 13:22:14 for a start it would involve ptrace() 13:22:32 ais523: you cannot have infinite recursion in the shebang interpreter because the interpreter itself cannot be a script (in most versions of the interpreter). 13:23:13 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 13:23:30 I'd like to code an OS, but most of the time would be spent during boring stuff rather than the few interesting things 13:23:34 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Client Quit). 13:23:43 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 13:24:32 there are some things I think could be done better than *nix, and I have some ideas. But yeah, I'm not very interested in spending hours coding drivers and so on. Nor is most of memory management very interesting 13:24:39 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Client Quit). 13:24:41 ais523: i have really not read your /usr/bin/cat though, came up with it myself :p 13:24:45 but it's so obvious :p 13:24:49 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 13:25:04 I wonder if building an OS in an HLL on top of a good microkernel would work 13:25:31 (speaking of which, what good microkernels are there?) 13:25:43 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Client Quit). 13:25:52 -!- Faaizaan has joined. 13:26:14 Faaizaan, I think you need to fix your connection 13:26:48 -!- Faaizaan has quit (Client Quit). 13:27:15 -only- hours? very fast coder 13:28:38 Patashu, well I didn't say how many. Probably hundreds of them :P 13:28:45 heh, true 13:28:59 I wouldn't know the first thing about coding a driver 13:29:50 it's simple, basically you're writing to special addresses to memory, oh and you sometimes need to do realtime and make sure you don't block stuff. 13:29:53 and some other things. 13:30:15 only for memory mapped IO registers obviously 13:30:28 x86 uses a separate bus for IO ports iirc 13:30:40 not sure if that is still used on modern systems though 13:32:15 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cgi-bin/poll.pl?a=9 13:32:44 I really, *really* hope DMM recently got a child and hasn't told us and this is actually him picking a name. 13:33:13 Phantom_Hoover, is "Zelda" actually an old name? Not something simply made up by Nintendo? 13:33:54 Zelda is a nickname for the feminine name Griselda which means "dark battle".[citation needed]" huh 13:34:02 s/^/"/ 13:34:21 ya 13:36:08 The games are named ultimately after F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife. 13:36:18 heh 13:36:40 doubt that though :P 13:37:45 wikipedia down heh 13:38:48 ya, wtf? 13:38:55 without wikipedia we're doomed! 13:39:27 and up again 13:43:46 Zelda Sayre Fitzgerald (July 24, 1900 – March 10, 1948), born Zelda Sayre ("Sayre" is pronounced to rhyme with "fair") in Montgomery, Alabama, was an American novelist and the wife of writer F. Scott Fitzgerald. 13:44:01 Zelda's glamorous image also inspired the name of video game creator Shigeru Miyamoto's character Princess Zelda in his The Legend of Zelda video game series. Miyamoto explained, "Zelda was the name of the wife of the famous novelist F. Scott Fitzgerald. She was a famous and beautiful woman from all accounts, and I liked the sound of her name. So I took the liberty of using her name for the very first Zelda title."[85] 13:44:25 citing this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/117177/ 13:53:44 -!- Cocytus has joined. 13:54:06 -!- Cocytus has left. 13:56:34 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:59:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:06:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:06:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:06:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:10:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_fish 14:10:01 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:11:20 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:15:12 I'll just leave that there. 14:20:44 there's a very similar idiom in polish. 14:21:00 it is "what does the gingerbread cake have to do with the windmill" 14:35:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:52:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:53:05 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:53:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:53:05 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:56:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:59:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:00:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:00:26 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:08:09 -!- azaq23 has joined. 15:10:13 @protontorpedo 15:10:13 is it hard to set up n ready my pc for programming? 15:10:17 @protontorpedo 15:10:17 I personally emailed paul graham the lisp guy today after reading about python in E raymonds essay he metions ruby n python is u cant use lisp 15:10:38 @protontorpedo 15:10:39 Im really only a bash person and even then Im tin 15:10:49 ? 15:10:52 @protontorpedo 15:10:52 how does haskell compare to say java? 15:10:55 @protontorpedo 15:10:55 so this java guy I know says that java is the best when things get really complex and u need your apps do do real work 15:10:58 lol 15:11:00 @protontorpedo 15:11:00 why haskell over lisp? 15:11:02 @protontorpedo 15:11:02 cant u just have data in arrays and do operations using you prog lang? 15:11:06 @protontorpedo 15:11:06 is haskell doomed to be a mysql driver? 15:11:09 LOL 15:11:21 this guy is brillant 15:11:52 yup 15:25:44 What is protontorpedo? 15:27:20 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:28:05 -!- wareya has joined. 15:37:51 interesting. It seems that I need to hit auto adjust on the monitor when the temperature of the GPU changes significantly (such as when playing a 3D game for a while, or a while after stopping playing one) 15:38:02 that is some shoddy intel graphics 15:39:09 it's pretty hard to temperature-compensate circuits 15:39:24 often you have to use two entirely different circuits with opposite temperature responses, and arrange them to cancel each other out somehow 15:39:29 and that's relatively expensive to do 15:39:41 if you can just autoadjust the monitor instead, why not do it that way? 15:41:23 if you can just autoadjust the monitor instead, why not do it that way? <-- it is annoying to have to do that every minute or so when the chip is warming up or cooling down 15:42:43 ais523, especially since the monitor seems to need an image with lots of sharp lines in it to autoadjust. Meaning the typical 3D game is not well suited. Something like text works well however. 15:43:29 I seem to remember my old syncmaster came with a windows program to display some sort of auto-adjust pattern on the screen with a checkerboard pattern with a white frame in the outermost pixel 15:43:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 .). 15:44:58 anyway, we need one standard for digital monitor attachment. I could do digital for this monitor except I have no DP-to-DVI converter 16:18:08 -!- ineiros has joined. 16:22:44 -!- cheater__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:32:44 -!- cheater__ has joined. 16:37:44 "In computer science higher-order functions consists of two things: closures and currying." 16:37:56 (From http://www.lazygun.net/) 16:38:30 I am clearly going to have to find this man and hit him until he stops being wrong. 16:39:26 uh.... what 16:39:37 Arn't higher order functions functions that take or return functions? 16:40:50 Yes. 16:41:04 By his definition Python does not have higher-order functions. 16:41:31 By his definition Lazy K doesn't have higher-order functions, come to think of it. 16:43:44 http://groovy.dzone.com/news/higher-order-functions-groovy- 16:43:45 Source. 16:43:48 Go correct him. 16:44:43 Phantom_Hoover, ask him what "map(func,iter)" is if that's the definition of higher-order functions. 16:45:14 -!- monqy has joined. 16:45:14 Then ask him how the hell you can have functional programming without higher-order functions, when using the correct definition. 16:45:34 (Even C supports functions that take functions as parameters, right?) 16:45:51 If you mean function pointers, then yes. 16:45:51 Phantom_Hoover, Link him to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_function 16:46:20 Which is why defining functional languages as those with higher-order functions is stupid. 16:47:07 my working definition is that functional languages are those where reassignable variables are nonidiomatic (and might not even exist) 16:47:33 I'd define it as where programming in such a style is possible. 16:47:48 higher-order functions help too, but I'm not sure they're actually required for a lang to be functional 16:47:49 Except you can emulate FP in C quite easily. 16:47:51 (And not a giant pain in the ass) 16:48:10 You could program functionally in Python, couldn't you? 16:48:20 Even more easily. 16:48:59 I wouldn't call Python a functional programming language, although I would call it one in which functional programming was entirely possible 16:50:26 What about, say, Scala. 16:50:42 I don't actually know Scala 16:50:51 Nor I. 16:50:52 It's var/val distinction makes it more likely to be functional by your definition, no? 16:51:04 Sgeo__ does. 16:51:12 Also, isn't such a definition more reliant on the community than the language unless no mutable state exists? 16:51:33 Lymia: potentially it is 16:51:38 Well yes, paradigms are not at all rigidly-defined. 16:52:18 If you gave a Haskell programmer Python, I doubt you'd see much mutable state. 16:52:21 mutated* 16:52:38 (If you gave them Java, they'd kick you in the shin) 16:52:55 If you gave them C++, you might not see much runtime behavior. 16:55:30 Hmm, output doesn't actually break referential transparency. 16:56:27 No, but your compiler might do surprising things unless it acts like it does. 16:57:35 pikhq, no. 16:57:41 If you gave them C++, they'd still kick you in the shin. 16:57:51 That's still runtime behavior, but not from the computer. 16:59:57 Lymia: I was saying they'd do most of their programming in templates. Which is *just* this side of tolerable if you write a preprocessor for the purpose. 17:00:50 Well... 17:01:15 I guess you could replicate functional programming in any OO language reasonably well if you have inner classes. 17:01:28 What happens if you give a Haskell programmer basic? 17:01:30 It's nothing more than a compile-time static functional programming language with pattern matching. 17:01:49 You'd have a Basic backend for GHC in a month. 17:02:10 :P 17:02:16 Compiling Haskell to Basic? 17:02:20 Yuh. 17:03:28 Either that, or they'd peek and poke their way to a better language in a few minutes. Say, an assembler. 17:03:29 Heh. 17:03:53 I wonder. 17:03:58 I still woner. 17:03:59 Is Basic really all that bad? 17:04:00 wonder* 17:04:14 What would happen if you went to a Java shop, and lugged in scala-library.jar and scala-compiler.jar 17:06:19 -!- Vorpal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:06:37 Or clojure. 17:06:48 ()()((())()())] 17:06:51 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:07:11 They'd probably be surprised at how little bloat your code has. 17:21:38 wow, nice! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2mCDkqXki0&feature=related 17:50:49 -!- cheater__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:54:45 my working definition is that functional languages are those where reassignable variables are nonidiomatic (and might not even exist) <-- what about closures? 17:55:03 those are less important too, although very useful 17:55:13 i.e. separating bindings and references? 17:56:05 ais523, hm does bash have higher order functions? Arguably you could do it by eval 17:56:17 or even without it sometimes 17:56:34 Vorpal: I don't know, I'm not a bash expert 17:56:43 anything with eval, you can normally simulate higher order functions in, though 17:56:44 foo { $1 whatever; } bar { something; } foo bar 17:56:46 hm 17:56:50 unless it's sufficiently eso that you can't do anything vaguely like that 17:57:15 ais523, I mean it is easy to do function pointers in bash 17:57:42 so you can reach the level that C has easily. 17:57:49 even without resorting to eval 18:08:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:10:20 -!- elliott_ has joined. 18:11:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:14:32 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:16:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:17:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:19:28 ais523: ping (/msg) 18:22:07 [[GNU Operating System]] is even more off-topic than [[PHP]] was and needs deleting 18:23:17 I don't think that sort of thing is inherently offtopic, it's just that nobody's written one that's at all interesting yet 18:23:48 well, it's not esoteric, it's not a language, 18:24:00 and its interest to esoteric programmers is only in that... you can run esointerpreters on it? 18:24:10 04:54:58: Just took 300mg melatonin 18:24:10 300??? 18:24:53 elliott_: I mean, things like Perl without letters or numbers probably qualify as esolangs 18:25:23 ais523: well, the shell /is/ a programming language, by design 18:25:25 it's unix's REPL 18:25:30 yep 18:25:34 but note that this is not the same thing as Unix, or GNU, at all 18:25:37 it's just one possible interface 18:25:47 the fact that you can do quines, or recursion, or anything, with it, is irrelevant 18:25:53 elliott_: cheater897 wasn't claiming that the shell was an esolang, but that the "shebang interpreter" was, whatever that means 18:26:01 because it's a language by design, and not really an esoteric one 18:26:05 ais523: that makes no sense at all 18:26:07 and really, it isn't, it's the executables that it runs that are... non-eso langauges 18:26:09 oh, and 18:26:09 echo '#!/usr/bin/awk {print $0}' > quine; chmod oau+x quine 18:26:10 *languages 18:26:10 is broken 18:26:13 because there's no newline 18:26:19 and also, a cheat quine 18:26:20 even if it did work 18:26:22 elliott_: I was wondering about that, but didn't know enough awk to tell 18:26:23 same with the simpler quine 18:26:28 wait 18:26:29 wtf? 18:26:31 it's even more broken 18:26:35 it reads lines of input 18:26:36 and outputs them 18:26:37 forever 18:26:40 that's not a quine... that's cat 18:26:44 elliott_: it has to be cat 18:26:46 ais523: actually, the lack of a newline is after awk 18:26:51 ah, no 18:26:52 it's a bug in the "shebang interpreter" code ;-) 18:26:58 if you do #!/usr/bin/cat 18:27:05 anyway, the fixed quine is an actual quine, but a cheat one, so it doesn't count at all 18:27:06 then that's a quine by itself, on DJGPP 18:27:08 yes 18:27:09 on unix too 18:27:12 but it's still a cheat 18:27:18 additionally the recursion example is broken 18:27:19 elliott_: on UNIX, cat is apparently typically not in /usr/bin 18:27:25 because you can't use shebangs in a shebanged executable 18:27:28 elliott_: anyway I already deleted the page 18:27:30 ais523: it uses which 18:27:49 yeah ok even for an off-topic page, it's literally the most error-ridden unfunny piece of crap i've ever read :P 18:27:55 didn't realise you deleted it 18:27:58 (I opened it earlier) 18:29:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:29:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:29:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:32:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:39:19 "PS. The voices in my head also tell me that the numbers are getting too big. I may just call the thing 2.8.0." — Linus 18:39:42 The last release would have actually been a good time for it. 18:39:50 Complete removal of the BKL and all. 18:44:29 2.8.0 would be exciting. 18:44:53 I kind of feel like the "2." part will disappear sometime soon. 18:45:03 An alternate proposal is to go to 3.0. 18:45:15 pikhq: And then, hopefully, increment the major version more often... 18:45:24 I mean, compare 2.0 to whatever long string the latest release is. 18:45:29 (by "alternate proposal" I mean "alternate proposal that Linus is actually considering") 18:45:30 Tell me that isn't a major-version-worthy difference. 18:45:32 Even going a year or two back. 18:45:55 elliott_: Dear me, there's been quite a few major version-worthy changes in there. 18:46:36 Heck, even a few in 2.6. 18:47:06 Tickless kernel and removing the BKL are two such changes. 18:47:07 Didn't 2.6 come out like half a decade ago? 18:47:45 2.6 came out 7 years ago. 18:48:14 Shit. 18:48:38 I thought going to 2.8 implied branching off a 2.7 first, and since there's been no branching there'll be no 2.8 18:49:23 olsner: it's Linus, he can do what the fuck he wants :) 18:49:23 olsner: The odd-number development thing is just straight-up outmoded, but there's still a bit of a desire for even number branches. 18:49:35 elliott_: true :) 18:49:59 BitKeeper and git kinda killed the need for development version numbers. 18:50:50 man, how long did Linux use bitkeeper for anyway? 18:51:02 Like 3 years. 18:51:21 I bet before it did version control haters had an easier time -- "Damn man, use a VCS." "Linus doesn't." "Um, er, that is to say, erm," 18:51:33 Complete removal of the BKL and all. <-- BKL? 18:51:41 Vorpal: Big Kernel Lock. 18:51:44 ah 18:52:25 Probably the single biggest architectural change Linux has had. 18:52:42 I think they should switch from 2.6.x.y to 3.1.1 and just let the last two numbers keep increasing forever... 18:52:49 well, until some magical time they realize it's sufficiently different from 3.1.1 to call it 4.1.1 18:53:04 olsner, why not 3.0.0 first? 18:53:40 pikhq, anyway most stuff in the kernel hadn't beel using the BKL for years iirc 18:53:40 I think major version numbers are irrelevant for any project that releases sufficiently often. 18:53:50 People have already realised that Chrome's major version number increments every few weeks. 18:54:00 so really it was just the last remains being cleaned up 18:54:19 Vorpal: The removal of the BKL happened in the 2.6 tree. Entirely. 18:54:20 elliott_, doesn't chrome use a rather longwinded version number 18:54:29 pikhq, hm yes but the 2.6 tree has been going for years 18:54:30 Vorpal: It was a fairly long, drawn-out process. 18:54:41 Vorpal: maybe using .1.1 would signify that it's not really the first major release (with the instability that usually implies), but already moved on to the first usable patch version 18:54:50 Vorpal: yes; I'm on 11.0.696.68 18:54:53 pikhq, anyway didn't some parts in 2.4 not take the BKL as soon as entering the kernel even? 18:54:55 Can't we just abandon versions, and use a release number, along with a git commit id? 18:55:03 but really it was just random, I temporarily forgot where the numbers start 18:55:06 Vorpal: and it hit eleven on... 18:55:08 olsner, heh 18:55:11 Vorpal: 28 April 18:55:18 and twelve is already in the dev channel IIRC 18:55:28 it'll probably be in the stable channel in a matter of weeks :P 18:55:33 Vorpal: Well, yes, but that wasn't due to a plan to remove the BKL. 18:55:39 elliott_, that one is worse the old df version numbers iirc 18:55:50 Vorpal: I think the last two probably are a revision identifier of some kind 18:55:55 chrome moved past opera in version numbers in about a tenth of the time opera has existed 18:55:57 pikhq, hm right 18:56:04 Vorpal: Chrome on Windows and Mac updates completely silently, after all 18:56:08 (on Linux it's an apt repository) 18:56:13 (probably something for yum too) 18:56:20 Vorpal: I don't think you realise just *how* tied in the BKL was when they started this. 18:56:33 elliott_, it is a bit scary that it updates silently. Is there an option to at least notify you of it? 18:56:45 pikhq, probably you are right 18:56:50 Vorpal: you're not supposed to care. really. 18:57:01 Even *open* took the BKL. 18:57:01 Vorpal: I'm not sure. It does yell at you to restart if it's gone too long without being quit or crashing (it actually includes "or crashing" in the message, at least as of last year :-D). 18:57:03 olsner, I wouldn't trust google :P 18:57:30 pikhq, but not whatever system call is used for getpid() I bet 18:57:32 Vorpal: I'm not totally "comfortable" with it as far as the potential for abuse goes if it got popular, but I really can't bring myself to care when it's Google. 18:57:41 Vorpal: It's hardly any more secure than apt. 18:57:45 Do you check every update that comes in? 18:57:49 [asterisk]less secure 18:58:07 with the process-per-tab thingy in chrome, they should be able to partially upgrade the browser as you go along, upgrading tabs silently when you press reload :) 18:58:13 elliott_, nope, but I have a nagging feeling that I should 18:58:22 elliott_, and then I realise I wouldn't have time 18:58:33 Vorpal: Even if you did, you can't read binary patches. 18:58:39 You would have to compile every update from source yourself. 18:58:45 elliott_, indeed. 18:58:48 And if you think you can detect exploits in source code -- see Underhanded C contest. 18:58:59 elliott_, I'm quite aware of that. 18:59:01 The only possible solution is a smart environment (capability security, etc.). 18:59:07 elliott_: most of those exploits aren't all that hard to find, though 18:59:11 So while we're on our current systems... Chrome doesn't really bother me. 18:59:18 elliott_, then you have to trust that environment. What about upgrades to it? 18:59:26 elliott_: Chrome is probably better on that count than most programs, really. 18:59:28 Vorpal: you always have to trust someone. 18:59:36 (in that it at least has a sane security *model*) 18:59:37 elliott_, yes indeed 18:59:38 If you don't trust any part of your computer, there is exactly one solution: don't tell it anything. 19:00:08 Don't plug in a webcam. Never type anything you don't want the world to know. Blah blah blah. Basically if you don't trust anything you can't use a computer for anything. 19:00:09 (of course, if Google wants to rape that, then it's pretty well raped next update) 19:00:11 elliott_, well I can probably trust something I build myself out of TTL logic :P 19:00:30 Vorpal: That's trusting yourself. 19:00:33 Vorpal: And write *all* the software yourself? 19:00:46 And if you trust yourself not to make mistakes... congratulations! You're an idiot! 19:00:46 Don't plug in a webcam. Never type anything you don't want the world to know. Blah blah blah. Basically if you don't trust anything you can't use a computer for anything. <-- 1) I don't even have a webcam 2) no comments ;) 19:01:06 Vorpal: that includes your email password. 19:01:13 elliott_, yes indeed, what about formal verification 19:01:20 In fact, an email account is out of the question if you don't trust anybody. 19:01:20 If you rely on an external compiler, you get Trusting Trust. If you rely on an external anything *else*, you rely on the source code not being underhanded or poorly written. 19:01:27 Vorpal: Coq could have a deliberate exploit. 19:01:34 And if you rely on yourself, you rely on your own perfection. 19:01:37 elliott_, well you have to consider what damage could be done if whoever you trusted was not trustable 19:01:37 Such hubris, that. 19:01:43 Of course trusting that the authors of Coq is not exactly a hard thing to demand, but it's still trust. 19:01:53 And in this hypothetical we're trusting nothing. 19:01:55 pikhq: if you rely on multiple external compilers, from different vendors 19:02:00 you can use them to compile each other from source 19:02:09 Not trusting anyone is definitely a mental illness. 19:02:12 elliott_, indeed, trust is like mathematics. You need to take something for given to do anything useful. 19:02:16 which gets rid of all trusting-trust situations that don't involve a huge conspiracy 19:02:18 It also completely precludes society entirely. 19:02:27 Vorpal: you have to trust an awful lot. 19:02:40 elliott_, yes sadly 19:02:44 ais523: see also DDC 19:02:50 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 19:02:51 (http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/) 19:03:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 19:03:00 ais523: But they could very well be working in a conspiracy. 19:03:08 elliott_: is that a different trusting-trust article from the famous one? 19:03:09 If anyone actually stopped using computers after reading the Trusting Trust paper then ... 19:03:14 I don't even know, they're alien as far as I'm concerned. 19:03:28 ais523: trusting that there's no gigantic conspiracy is trust 19:03:34 and plenty of people don't do it 19:03:46 (they've all made major failures of reasoning, but so does anyone who doesn't trust anything) 19:03:52 in my case, there are things I trust and things I don't 19:03:59 ais523: yes 19:04:04 David A. Wheeler’s Page on Fully Countering Trusting Trust through Diverse Double-Compiling (DDC) - Countering Trojan Horse attacks on Compilers 19:04:08 it's a phd dissertation 19:04:09 and lack of a massive conspiracy is more trustworthy than lack of a small conspiracy, for instance 19:04:12 http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/dissertation/wheeler-trusting-trust-ddc.pdf 19:04:48 hmm, you can get a PhD out of that defence? I thought it was obvious 19:05:06 ais523: It's not as simple as what you said 19:05:14 Essentially, at a certain point you have to take the trustworthiness of *something* for granted, or give up on everything more advanced than a big stick and your own arm. 19:05:16 I guess so 19:05:17 which is why I linked to it, so you could read the summary 19:05:32 I appear to have momentarily deluded myself into thinking you might actually click a link 19:06:10 I suppose I could always Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V the page, but you seem to prefer I reword things in my own awkward words for some reason 19:06:22 pikhq_, but how can you trust the stick to be a stick? 19:06:25 ;P 19:06:35 you could easily bug a stick 19:06:56 Vorpal: Oh, fuck, solipsism. 19:07:14 Very well then. You can trust nothing but the existence of your own mind. 19:07:16 pikhq_, are you sure your mind exists then? 19:07:26 COGITO ERGO SVM 19:07:27 how can you be so sure it isn't just an illusion 19:07:31 COGITO ERGO SVM 19:07:49 Vorpal: the answer to that is obvious. 19:07:59 pikhq_, do you actually think, or do you just feel like you do. 19:08:02 Vorpal: the answer to that is obvious. 19:08:21 Vorpal: If you are capable of asking that question, you are clearly thinking. 19:08:24 elliott_, shut up, I'm being factitious here. :P 19:08:31 Vorpal: yes but it's just stupid. 19:08:31 Ergo, your mind must exist in some fashion. 19:08:42 What that fashion *is* is, of course, debatable. 19:08:56 true 19:09:13 suddenly this conversion is kind of stupid 19:09:32 elliott_, of course 19:10:44 pikhq_: gtfi -minecraft 19:16:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:16:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:16:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:20:17 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:26:59 hmm, TIL that tcc was originally the C compiler submitted as an IOCCC entry 19:27:09 I was aware of both of them, but wasn't aware that they were the same codebase 19:37:25 TCC? 19:38:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:43:48 Is a MSPA flash coming? 19:44:31 no 19:44:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:44:43 AH is having computer problems 19:44:50 Oh 19:45:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:47:44 Phantom_Hoover: TCC: Tiny C Compiler. 19:47:50 Phantom_Hoover: By Fabrice Bellard. 19:48:04 AH is having computer problems 19:48:14 Still unclear why he hasn't just bought a new one. 19:48:21 And shot the old one. 19:48:31 Phantom_Hoover: I told you to read the Twitter so read the damn Twitter 19:48:40 @andrewhussie 19:48:40 andrewhussie 19:48:40 Unknown command, try @list 19:48:40 buying a new one wont fix it this time, its software probs. 19:48:40 22 May via web 19:48:59 Yes but I don't actually understand what the hell that means. 19:49:13 How can it be persistent across multiple machines? 19:49:35 he copies his drive over 19:49:57 well, re-uses it, rather 19:50:03 which is logical, since software licensing is incredibly painful and copying large work-in-progress files would take ages 19:50:07 "Actually, I want to implement a NF interpreter sometime. This will include "networking" and implicit "IPC" (IPC in the sense of a localhost-localhost communication). Please, read my article again. There I have written that the SETUP of the connection has to be established by client and server which is running NF. Actually, I do know what these words mean, as I studied network technique 1 year in the University of Applied Sciences in Mannheim as part of 19:50:07 my Bachelor study of computer sciences. I do know how to use pipes, IPCs, shared memory, traps, rendevouz, mutexes and deadlock-free communications." 19:50:10 Phantom_Hoover: DON'T MESS WITH THIS GUY 19:50:15 HE STUDIED NETWORK TECHNIQUES FOR A YEAR 19:50:20 AT THE UNIVERSITY OF APPLIED SCIENCES IN MANNHEIM 19:50:26 AS PART OF A BACHELOR STUDY OF COMPUTER SCIENCES 19:50:33 He will RUIN you with his knowledge. 19:53:18 elliott_, what is NF? 19:53:26 Crappy BF derivative. 19:53:36 Vorpal: NetFuck. 19:53:40 The creator seems to be touchy about it. 19:53:55 an utterly uninteresting, incredibly underspecified BF derivative whose creator is arguing its merits with PH on the wiki right now hilariously badly 19:54:00 It's the one which has a single static 2-way pipe between processes which he calls networking. 19:54:03 "I have a Bachelor's degree in CS, your argument is invalid" 19:54:09 Phantom_Hoover: well it is networking, with a single socket 19:54:16 he seems to be saying that interpreters have you set up the socket beforehand 19:54:24 which is stupid, ofc 19:54:42 elliott_, so what does it add to bf, I mean, since Ook is still on the wiki it has to be more mediocre than that 19:55:12 nobody wants it deleted 19:55:16 Ook is vaguely tolerable due to novelty value and DMM armour. 19:55:16 PH is just saying it's crap :P 19:55:28 Ook is terrible, but it was, like, the first BF remapping. 19:55:29 Phantom_Hoover, dmm made ook!? 19:55:30 So there's that. 19:55:37 elliott_, ah okay 19:55:48 http://esolangs.org/wiki/David_Morgan-Mar 19:55:50 Also Piet. :p 19:55:59 elliott_, yes I know dmm made piet 19:56:08 one BF remapping is clever 19:56:10 more, not so much 19:56:19 BF derivatives wouldn't be so looked-down-upon if there weren't so many of them 19:56:21 Vorpal, the thing about DMM is that his stupid languages are unapologetic jokes. 19:56:28 ais523, that is true 19:56:46 Phantom_Hoover, hm true. Ook does have a slight humour value 19:57:10 NF, OTOH, seems to be meant as an actual exercise in programming. 19:57:25 The creator Daniel Marschall announces a price for the person who implements 19:57:25 A NetFuck 1.0 interpreter 19:57:25 AND 19:57:25 A comfortable "pong" game written in NetFuck 1.0 (Classic notation) 19:57:30 really tempted to ask what the prize is 19:57:50 although a comfortable pong game with BF IO is impossible, probably he's assuming , works instantly 19:57:59 elliott_, do you have a link to the place where that guy wrote about his 1 year of CS study? 19:58:09 ralc: no no, one year of networking study 19:58:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:NetFuck 19:58:30 ralc, to be fair, that was in response to me saying he didn't know what networking or IPC were. 19:59:23 it would be great if a static connection between two programs meant that you embedded an identifier of the program it's connected to in the source 19:59:32 and then every instance of program A and B are connected to each other in the world, simultaneously 20:00:20 ralc, if you find it, can you link me up? 20:00:21 we should make a parody of stupid BF derivatives 20:00:29 that's the stupidest BF derivative we can think of 20:00:36 Does my BF derivative count as stupid 20:01:07 Sgeo__: probably, although I haven't seen it; statistically speaking, most are 20:01:30 Sgeo__, was that the RLE one? 20:01:39 PH, Yes 20:01:43 cheater897, elliott_ just linked it 20:01:44 It was passively stupid. 20:02:05 "passively" stupid? 20:02:13 we should make a parody of stupid BF derivatives 20:02:13 thanks 20:02:13 that's the stupidest BF derivative we can think of 20:02:18 ais523: bf, but with the command meanings permuted 20:02:20 arbitrarily 20:02:24 that's the stupidest BF derivative we can think of <-- that's deadfish. It is so stupid it is no longer turing complete. 20:02:28 i think that already exists :( 20:02:35 Vorpal: brilliant 20:02:41 elliott_, as always 20:02:44 "passively" stupid? 20:02:44 remove <>[] 20:02:48 I don't even consider Deadfish a BF deriv 20:02:49 add a squaring instruction 20:02:52 make the wrapping broken 20:02:56 and rename + and - 20:03:00 plus misinterpret . as decimal output 20:03:01 and remove , 20:03:02 As in it wasn't an interesting idea, but it didn't actually take *effort* to be stupid. 20:03:03 that's genius 20:03:07 why don't we just remove ]? 20:03:07 ais523: I didn't before now but now I have to 20:03:12 haha 20:03:14 It's a bit above command substitution. 20:03:17 yes, and then try and justify looping still being possible 20:03:18 it just caught my attention, being a CS student myself.. one year teaches you sh*t 20:03:18 I don't even consider Deadfish a BF deriv <-- yes it is, if you kind of squint and move your head back and forth 20:03:23 because a[b is obviously the same as a[b[a[b[a[b[a[... 20:04:10 this reminds me of Minimum 20:04:15 which is one of my favourite joke languages 20:04:18 elliott_, another idea. bf with whitespace syntax. 20:04:49 it just caught my attention, being a CS student myself.. one year teaches you sh*t 20:05:05 Hmm I have not seen you before. 20:05:08 ARE YOU A NEOPAGAN 20:05:22 Phantom_Hoover, a what 20:05:33 i had to google that 20:05:33 ais523: there is actually one valid Minimum program, depending on how you interpret things 20:05:36 an infinite string of `s 20:05:40 ARE YOU SECURELY LOCKED INTO THE MATRIX OF SOLIDITY 20:05:45 ais523: unfortunately, it just hangs 20:05:52 ais523, who deleted my entry on the esolang wiki? 20:05:54 elliott_: there are multiple valid Minimum programs 20:05:55 cheater897: ais523 did. 20:06:12 a Minimum program is the application of one Minimum program to another, right? 20:06:15 elliott_, someone's not talking to you 20:06:22 cheater897: (Deletion log); 18:21 . . Ais523 (Talk | contribs) (deleted "GNU Operating System": factually incorrect, not particularly interesting, and not an esolang) 20:06:26 someone doesn't give a shit 20:06:53 someone's really hung up on it 20:07:05 clearly 20:07:05 ais523, have you deleted my entry on the esolang wiki? 20:07:19 cheater897: the deletion log is public knowledge, you know 20:07:27 and yes, because there was no useful content there 20:07:29 ais523, i don't know how to access it. 20:07:34 no you see you have to tell him you did so he can yell at you and waste your time. 20:07:40 typing Special:Log/delete is probably the easiest way 20:08:03 why did you think there was no useful content in there? 20:08:41 cheater897: well, /was/ there any useful content in there? 20:08:52 merely observing that quines exist does not imply that something is an esolang 20:09:33 ais523, why would you say the kernel shebang interpreter is not an esolang? 20:09:51 because it just runs arbitrary executables 20:09:57 hm, *tries to think of a haskell quine*. I guess you could do the usual way, but format strings simplify that quite a bit 20:09:59 that's a) useful, and b) computationally uninteresting 20:10:02 thus the opposite of an esolang 20:10:16 how many websites are there that explain its workings in full? 20:11:13 `quote 20:11:16 ​36) augur: pretty true. 20:11:58 ais523, i am asking because i believe the answer to that question challenges your notion that it's not an esoteric language. 20:12:17 cheater897: quite a few, I imagine, because it is very simple 20:12:26 imagination is not reality 20:12:31 it is if it's right 20:12:35 IMAGINATION IS NOT REALITY 20:12:36 DREAMS ARE NOT REAL 20:12:39 YOU ARE WHAT YOU PERCEIVE 20:12:45 vortex is higher-dimensional mathematics 20:12:48 and I can't be bothered to find the relevant portion of the source code 20:13:14 ais523, your imagination is not right. 20:13:35 that's a really stupid way of saying "you're wrong" 20:13:37 ais523, just google for "shebang interpreter" and see how many tutorials you find that explain e.g. how parameters are parsed there. 20:13:40 which is a stupid thing to say to start with 20:13:43 cheater897: you just made an unsubstantiated statement that something in particular did not exist on the internet 20:13:44 nobody says "shebang interpreter" 20:13:50 ais523, no 20:13:52 i have not. 20:13:54 in fact, I invoke rule 35 on you right now, just to make you feel the implications 20:14:08 you have said "quite a few", and i have said that that was wrong. 20:14:19 "not quite a few" does not equal "none". 20:15:47 a herp derp derp a derp derp derp derp 20:15:50 derp derp? herp 20:15:52 herp a derp a derp a derp 20:16:01 ais523: i believe that's a logically sound argument. what do you answer to it? 20:16:12 cheater897: that your logic is very wrong (counterexample: INTERCAL) 20:16:13 herpaderp-derp 20:16:28 ais523, counterexample to what? 20:16:38 or, basically, that you're saying A! well, B might be relevant! You said C, but you're wrong, thus I win the argument! 20:16:42 olsner: deeeeeeeeeerp herp 20:16:51 why does upgrading libc in ubuntu involve generating/compiling/herp-derping a million locales? 20:16:54 and counterexample to B 20:16:56 no, not really ais523. 20:17:02 ais523: why are you being distracted by an irrelevant argument, anyway? his page did not fully explain the "shebang interpreter" anyway 20:17:06 I'll let you fill in the metasyntactic variables yourself, because they really don't matter 20:17:15 so his argument is dismissable from the start 20:17:18 elliott_: because winning the argument three times is more fun than winning it once 20:17:23 ais523: :) 20:17:24 I've won it twice already 20:17:26 herp_DERP.ISO-8859-7 will be so very useful for me 20:17:33 olsner: derp_HERP.HERP-DERP 20:17:34 I think I lost it the third time, but that was a very pointless argument 20:17:40 here is my argument: 1. an esoteric language is a language that is not widely understood 2. there are only very few widely known documents on this specific interpreter 3. therefore, it is not widely known 4. that makes it esoteric 20:17:40 Wow. Gold and silver are now legal tender in Utah. 20:17:44 ais523: I should keep a score card 20:17:51 And this changes *nothing* but the herp and the derp. 20:17:57 cheater897: that is not a widely-accepted definition of esolang 20:18:06 in fact, our frontpage directly contradicts it 20:18:09 and so does wikipedia 20:18:12 elliott_, there's someone who's not talking to you 20:18:17 cheater897: I disagree with 1 and 4, and I think 2 and 3 may also both be wrong 20:18:18 "An esoteric programming language (sometimes shortened to esolang) is a programming language designed as a test of the boundaries of computer programming language design, as a proof of concept, or as a joke." 20:18:40 (as someone who would not accept gold for a debt is a complete moron) 20:18:47 cheater897: Nobody is talking to you; I'm sitting from the sidelines mocking you, and ais523 is apparently bored enough to try and humour you 20:18:55 But there's definitely nothing so mutually intellectual as talking going on. 20:19:20 elliott_: you forgot to mention olsner 20:19:35 ais523: olsner isn't talking, he's monologuing :) 20:19:37 as is pikhq_ 20:19:42 and, also, at this point, me 20:19:42 yep 20:19:51 pikhq_'s statements were interesting, but I have nothing to say in response to them 20:20:02 ais523: I'm just herping the derps, don't mind me 20:20:07 My power is immense. 20:20:13 I CONTROL THE UNIVERSE 20:20:28 olsner: I mean to ask; what exactly does herp mean, and how does it differ from derp? 20:20:33 I was actually curious enough to look it up 20:20:38 and found explanations of derp, but not herp 20:20:43 pikhq_, why would you even make that legal tender. 20:20:53 ais523: Herp and derp are the two constituent components of herp derp. 20:20:57 Phantom_Hoover: Because herp derp. 20:20:58 ais523: in other news, the sr_CS.ISO-8859-5@jekavian locale is broken 20:20:59 OMG THAT'S WHAT OUR WORST BF DERIVATIVE MUST BE 20:21:04 Ook, but with herp and derp rather than ook and punctuation 20:21:07 i have a feeling that being in here long enough... 20:21:14 ralc: sorry about this 20:21:19 ais523, programming the shebang interpreter is by definition hard, because it's not meant to be programmed in 20:21:21 ralc: Rots the brain, indeed 20:21:29 elliott_, sigh, you're aiming too low. 20:21:30 ralc: Especially when cheater's talking. 20:21:31 cheater897: nor is MS Paint 20:21:51 ais523, if you figured out how to computer-program ms paint, i'd applaud. 20:21:55 ais523: actually, your MS Paint tic-tac-toe AI counts as a proof that esoteric programming can be done in Paint 20:22:00 doesn't prove MS Paint an esolang, ofc 20:22:03 The worst BF derivatives are those that, in dbc's words, attempt to make a luxury car by sticking parts onto a skateboard. 20:22:09 cheater897: he did. 20:22:16 well then there you go. 20:22:16 someone not talking to you herp derp 20:22:25 oh man what, you're talking to me sometimes?? 20:22:30 is it a quantum talking flag? 20:22:37 elliott_: I think a separate term is needed for trying to use things not intended as programming languages at all as esoprograms 20:22:41 i see you have a problem with tenses. are you sure you're british? 20:22:44 Phantom_Hoover: And then remaking the skateboard out of herp derp. 20:22:45 not an immigrant? 20:22:58 I went and implemented the same tic-tac-toe program in a variety of other programs I had lying around on the computer too 20:23:02 just jumped off the ship, elliott? 20:23:04 such as Powerpoint and WinHlp32 20:23:06 cheater897: hmm, the fact that nobody actually wants to talk to you is now blatantly obvious to everyone watching 20:23:11 so, either you're extremely dense, or a troll 20:23:20 elliott_, yes, but superfluous additions to the language that fail to understand minimalism are crucial to making the Platonic worst BF derivative. 20:23:23 unfortunately, I already expected both, so that doesn't actually prove anything either way conclusively 20:23:27 ais523, how did you implement it in there? 20:23:29 actually, I /think/ it was winhelp (16-bit)'s format, being implemented for backwards compatibility 20:23:33 cheater897: it's not hard 20:23:44 ais523, that does not answer the question, though. 20:23:53 ... MS paint tic-tac-toe AI‽ 20:23:57 ais523: Link. 20:23:57 note that you can express a tic-tac-toe solver as a finite state machine 20:24:09 pikhq_: it was on filebin.ca, so is probably down by now 20:24:09 How can you make MS paint tic-tac-tie AI or programming the shebang interpreter? 20:24:11 pikhq_: spoiler: it works with the flood tool 20:24:14 and near-invisible wires 20:24:15 but I can repost it on imgur or somewhere 20:24:23 ais523: Please do. 20:24:26 ok, do it 20:24:31 ais523: imgur, perfect web host for Piet and MS Paint programs 20:24:38 wow, this file is so old its filename is in uppercase 20:24:40 elliott_: Beautiful. 20:24:51 $ ll OANDX.BMP 20:24:53 -rw-r--r-- 1 ais523 ais523 599574 2003-11-04 01:05 OANDX.BMP 20:24:57 The flood tool is actually fairly computationally impressive IMO 20:25:11 the main issue was getting rid of wire-crossings 20:25:32 has the wire-crossing problem ever been conclusively solved? 20:25:33 IIRC it hasn't 20:25:43 gah Gnome's file chooser is the most annoying ever 20:25:48 ugh, yes 20:26:00 elliott_: I tried, but gave up when I figured out I didn't actually know what the wire-crossing problem meant 20:26:05 elliott_, both me and ais523 have come to the conclusion that it is so poorly-defined that it cannot be solved in any meaningful way. 20:26:26 What is programming the shebang interpreter supposted to means? 20:26:41 zzo38: it means next to nothing 20:26:43 http://i.imgur.com/ip6xZ.png 20:26:52 pikhq_: caret 20:27:13 hmm, imgur's translating of it to .png will prevent it opening in Windows 3.1 20:27:20 although presumably more modern versions of Paint will be able to cope 20:27:22 oh noes 20:28:19 "I'm not sure if there are actually theories that don't pertain to Lord English in that thread, but you should ask there anyway." 20:28:31 also, ouch that border is ugly 20:28:44 Sgeo__: stop reading the worst forum :P 20:29:04 How is it the worst forum? Just because it's official in some sense? 20:29:17 Sgeo__, you have not seen the things we have. 20:29:19 No, it's the worst forum because it's the worst forum 20:29:26 ais523: Hmm, does it do perfect play? 20:29:26 Phantom_Hoover: lol 20:29:28 you're so dramatic 20:29:31 ais523, would this work with any fill tool? 20:29:44 Phantom_Hoover: any with the same algorithm, ofc 20:29:55 pikhq_: no, in that it doesn't always take an opportunity to win 20:29:58 but it never loses 20:30:29 Ah it is because of the way X&O game works, it is possible to do this. 20:30:30 -!- TOGoS has joined. 20:30:30 Phantom_Hoover: any tool that changes the color of an area of constant color 20:30:33 ais523, is there a version where the wires etc. are difficult to see? 20:30:34 zzo38: indeed 20:30:43 Other games you might can't. 20:30:43 Sgeo__: that is that version 20:30:57 Sgeo__: they were on a 640x480 screen on a computer with 4-bit color depth 20:31:06 Ah 20:31:12 Sgeo__: This is for Win 3.1 colors. 20:31:28 but you can see them anyway once they turn black 20:33:35 Can you do more complicated things like that by using fiood fills that have a tolerance value? 20:34:13 ais523, you are a god among men. 20:34:16 zzo38: ooh, interesting 20:34:18 I think so 20:34:22 that would allow wire-crossing 20:34:31 if you had a tolerance of one 20:34:33 then you could have 20:34:34 | 20:34:35 +----- 20:34:35 | 20:34:40 where the two |s have colours two pixels away 20:34:43 zzo38: I experimented along those lines; I concluded it was probably possible, but failed to make anything interesting 20:34:45 and the +- is in between the two colours 20:34:51 that allows wire-crossing 20:34:52 awesome 20:35:01 elliott_: Burn worked along similar lines, IIRC 20:35:04 I just can't remember how 20:35:07 elliott_, I don't think it does... 20:35:12 hmm, there's a problem, though 20:35:16 you need /recursive/ tolerance 20:35:19 After it runs once the crossing is reset. 20:35:29 Phantom_Hoover: that's irrelevant, everything is once-only here 20:35:34 ais523: i.e. it has to be tolerance relative to the last pixel you coloured 20:35:41 otherwise, a crossed wire can't cross on to another wire 20:35:41 :/ 20:35:47 elliott_, well, OK. 20:35:51 elliott_: indeed 20:36:10 actually, that wouldn't work either 20:36:16 or the crossing wouldn't work at all 20:36:22 Link to MSPA forum horribleness? 20:37:20 zzo38, the linux kernel has a special interpreter built in 20:37:42 zzo38, it interprets the first line of scripts that you run as executables. the first line has the form of #!/bin/bash or something like that. 20:38:18 cheater897: that is not a programming language interpreter 20:38:24 it runs executables, that's it 20:38:24 cheater897: I know that. I think it has to start #! followed by the filename of the program, and a space and parameter and then a line feed 20:38:56 zzo38, kinda, yes 20:39:15 ais523, no 20:39:33 And you have to have +x permissions on the file. 20:40:59 zzo38, pretty much, yes, except for versions of unix where that's not the case. 20:41:34 ais523: you realise he's not going to listen to you no matter what you say? 20:41:48 ais523, it does not run executables, just specific one 20:41:48 s 20:42:55 cheater897: In what versions of UNIX does it differ, and in what ways? 20:43:06 zzo38, well you don't always have +x.. 20:44:37 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:46:18 "Q: The Homestuck TVTropes page says- 20:46:18 A: The TVTropes page is a joke." 20:49:41 cheater897: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/execve.html (search for the "rationale" section) 20:50:11 it seems that the reason that you yourself couldn't find a widely available description of shebang lines is that it is, in fact, not standardised, and merely a POSIX-sanctioned behaviour for running executables 20:50:14

RATIONALE

20:50:21 you could have used an anchor :-) 20:50:25 elliott_: I was wondering about htat 20:50:35 but couldn't find any obvious way to determine what it is 20:50:37 *was 20:50:41 and didn't want to check the source 20:50:53 especially because the site uses frames 20:50:57 inspecting the element works 20:51:01 in both chrome and Firefox-with-firebug 20:51:07 its source is pretty clean, though 20:51:17 didn't want to load Firebug either 20:51:43 oh, right, Firebug has a performance penalty 20:51:45 such silly browsers >:) 20:52:16 ais523, many versions of the interpreter will not execute scripts as the embedded interpreter 20:52:48 Sgeo__, where'd you get that quote from? 20:53:04 http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?37956-MSPA-Simple-Questions-Thread 20:53:22 Phantom_Hoover: /msg ping. 20:54:46 Phantom_Hoover: /msg ping. 20:55:33 ais523, scripts are executables too.. but those versions of the kernels will only execute binaries. 20:55:46 cheater897: you lost the argument ages ago 20:55:47 twice, in fact 20:55:54 what argument 20:55:55 so I'm not entirely sure why you're still trying 20:56:04 you think i'm still going on with that argument? 20:56:18 that's a bit ill. 20:56:23 "I'm not arguing, I'm just responding to counterarguments you're making." 20:56:25 are you all right? 20:56:42 hmm, I wonder who here /isn't/ mentally ill according to cheater 20:56:45 probably just cheater 20:56:47 i understand erratic behaviour from elliott_, he's not really completely right in the head 20:57:27 elliott_, i think the set is {elliott}^c 20:57:54 cheater897: i sent you a /msg 20:58:19 * ais523 takes the powerset of elliott 20:58:21 for no real reason 20:58:33 (note: it's {elliott, not elliott}) 20:58:34 haha 21:00:05 elliott_: if you invested as much energy into being friendly as you do into being repulsive, we'd both be much happier. 21:00:41 nah, I've tried being friendly to you but it turns out you're too stupid 21:00:44 ais523, either way, i agree with you that maybe that page doesn't belong on the esolang wiki. 21:00:55 elliott_, nope, you've never. 21:01:06 no, actually, I was quite friendly to you when you first came here, so was everyone else 21:01:12 ais523, i think you're right there should be a place for this sort of thing 21:01:23 when on earth did ais523 say that? 21:01:48 elliott_, then you had a mental breakdown and picked a target, and becuase no one else wanted you to live it out on them, they just ignored it, and then went with it 21:02:10 yes. absolutely. this is definitely what you believe. 21:02:20 but, that conversation doesn't really belong in here. 21:02:25 nor does anything else you say 21:02:29 so you might as well 21:03:14 God cheater897 you really suck. 21:03:30 elliott_: what /was/ that program you ran in B Nomic? 21:03:31 ais523, if you somehow come up with an area on the esolang wiki to put the "usual" languages, i can populate it with "funny" behaviour in a few languages. 21:03:34 I remember you did, but not what it did 21:03:36 Phantom_Hoover: The most eloquent message ever said. 21:03:43 cheater897: That's not ais' decision to make and it doesn't belong on the esolang wiki. 21:03:45 cheater897: I don't have the userrights to do that sort of thing 21:03:46 It's minimalist! 21:03:52 ais523, oh ok 21:04:03 The only person who could sign away their server space to being filled with your absolutely retarded ideas is Graue. 21:04:03 and even if I could, wouldn't without Graue's approval, and especially not since the category debacle 21:04:18 Maybe Graue is somehow stupid enough to, though. Or maybe we'll fork and Timwi will be the new admin :-P 21:04:25 ais523, oh alright. 21:04:32 ais523, what is the category debacle? 21:04:49 I think it's on [[Esolang talk:Categories]], but i can't remember 21:05:51 Hey elliott_ you really suck as well come at me breakdownily bro. 21:06:19 Phantom_Hoover: I hate you so much. Totes. 21:06:22 Legit hate going on here. 21:06:31 Hate hate hate hate hate. 21:06:33 ais523, do you mean this? http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:Categories 21:06:41 cheater897: Put things about "funny" behaviour in a few "usual" languages in subpages of your userpages if it doesn't go with the normal stuff. 21:07:20 cheater897: no, that's a blank page 21:07:34 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorisation 21:07:35 ais523, i know. what url did you mean then? 21:07:38 ok 21:07:46 assuming I've remembered the name right 21:07:50 ah, I didn't 21:08:00 HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE ELLIOTT SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED HOOVER FILTERS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR ELLIOTT AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE. 21:08:09 the page does exist, I just can't remember where it is.. 21:08:10 ais523: z not s? 21:08:51 Phantom_Hoover: this is even more breakdown-relieving than cheater897 21:08:53 How can I possibly thank you 21:09:18 By dying. Also, dying painfully. 21:09:28 In sequence? 21:09:29 Hatey McHate the Hate. 21:09:36 Yes. 21:09:40 I'm on it. 21:09:42 elliott_: you were right, it is indeed z rather than s 21:09:51 ais523: Americans running our wiki :| 21:10:20 You would have to die painfully about 200 times before I started not hating you. 21:10:26 but that page only hits the tail end of the debacle 21:10:27 ais523, quick, rename it. 21:10:31 GRAUE WILL NEVER KNOW 21:10:32 ais523: that posix page you linked is confusing 21:10:36 Applications that do not require to access their arguments may use the form: 21:10:36 main(void) 21:10:36 as specified in the ISO C standard. However, the implementation will always provide the two arguments argc and argv, even if they are not used. 21:10:45 Two arguments will be provided that cannot possibly be accessed in any way 21:10:56 elliott_: it's POSIX, did you expect it to make sense? 21:11:00 in fact, passing two arguments to a (void) function might even break some conforming C implementations, no? 21:11:05 many of them, even 21:11:10 it'll corrupt the stack 21:11:18 and main is special 21:11:35 hmm 21:11:54 "It's kind of a pity that MediaWiki makes a distinction between articles and categories (instead of, say, just having some sort of general "can-be-classified-under" association between articles.) What if I want to see a list of all languages designed by Gerson Kurz, for instance...?" 21:12:00 someone needs to tell Chris Pressey about "what links here" six years ago 21:13:39 To the LHC! 21:14:00 anyway, http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User_talk:Stux#Incident is the actual beginning of the categorisation drama 21:14:02 (The LHC can be used for any science whatsoever.) 21:14:09 although can it really be said to be drama if Graue is the only participant? 21:14:12 The Categorical Incident. 21:14:21 well, it was drama, and I think other people commented on it 21:14:22 ooh, someone brave should add an {{unsigned}} template to that 21:14:24 since Graue wrote it 21:14:30 someone /very/ brave 21:14:38 I am brave. 21:14:41 and also, Graue's other comment 21:14:43 which ends with ~~ 21:14:51 hmm, Keymaker used ~~~~~ by mistake too later on 21:14:54 such sloppiness 21:14:56 Well OK I am foolhardy but there's basically no difference. 21:15:15 And I appreciate your response Graue for replying to my post and explaining your actions (No offense, but Graue, could you sign your posts more often? It's taken me 3 months to realize that it was one of your replies posted here). 21:15:19 Phantom_Hoover: statements like that are also why you're not our leader 21:17:40 ais523: hmm, do you think we have consensus for [[Category:Turning tarpits]]? 21:18:00 "In a few days, if no one complains, I'll add the category." --Maharba in April 21:18:13 elliott_: I think so 21:18:38 * elliott_ creates 21:20:16 created 21:20:21 and added to appropriate pages 21:20:34 (→Incident - Add unsigned. Also, why does this thing demand a timestamp.) 21:20:41 Phantom_Hoover: because you should include a template 21:20:42 erm 21:20:44 Phantom_Hoover: because you should include a timestamp 21:20:54 please fix it so I don't have to, I'm lazy :) 21:20:58 elliott_, yes but I really can't be bothered checking the history. 21:21:00 I am lazier. 21:21:03 Also I hate you. 21:21:09 ais523: here, you do it 21:21:29 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Stux&diff=2936&oldid=2935 21:21:32 Graue top-posts, too 21:21:48 in mediawiki that is a sin 21:22:21 email and Usenet, too 21:22:27 Yet another reason LQT is bad and people who like it should be shot. 21:22:32 ais523, yes 21:22:32 if people top-post when emailing me, I edit their message into a bottom-post before replying to it 21:22:41 Phantom_Hoover, LQT? 21:22:45 ais523: I usually omit nested quotes 21:22:52 they're usually irrelevant/annoying in email 21:23:09 elliott_: so do I 21:23:16 but in the case where they're relevant, I edit them into top-posts 21:23:21 Vorpal, crappy thing for thread management in MW. 21:23:56 Phantom_Hoover, huh? 21:24:12 Phantom_Hoover, oh an extension? 21:24:22 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:24:25 Explaining would derail the conversation pointlessly, so you might as well just Google it. 21:24:39 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 21:25:14 Phantom_Hoover: pointless derails are what IRC discussions are mostly made of, aren't they? 21:25:55 It would be nice if Graue upgraded the wiki. 21:26:06 LQT SYMPATHISER 21:26:07 I wonder if Vector would expose the trilime's horrible white edges. 21:26:12 YET ANOTHER REASON TO HATE YOU 21:26:15 What. 21:26:46 elliott_, why do we have the trilime for the logo 21:26:57 Vorpal: you have asked that at least twenty times. 21:27:02 elliott_, nope 21:27:04 yep 21:27:09 elliott_, no more than 19 21:27:12 And don't grep for "trilime" since I'm the only person who calls it that :P 21:27:21 elliott_, right, why then 21:28:21 Why what? 21:28:37 I don't know if anyone knows why 21:28:46 elliott_, why the logo 21:29:38 Vorpal: ask ais523, he's the one you normally ask. 21:29:47 elliott_, eh why 21:29:56 because I can't be arsed to answer 21:29:59 elliott_, I ask you this time 21:30:06 elliott_: so far, he's statistically asked about Google's, YouTube's, and Apple's logos more often than Esolangs 21:30:19 oh, and Firefox's 21:30:21 I have asked about apple's logo? 21:30:32 ais523, I think I complained about firefox logo 21:30:33 ais523: I am so glad you are keeping track of this 21:30:34 yes, mostly about the positioning on an iPhone-alike 21:30:44 elliott_: I wasn't, I'm just messing with grep 21:30:55 ais523, so tell me about the esolang logo... 21:31:08 assume I have a short memory or something 21:31:14 oh, and Haskell's too 21:31:18 Vorpal: there isn't much to say 21:31:29 ais523, right, that's all? :P 21:31:34 I think the official answer is "it's just an image Graue chose as a placeholder, and people decided they liked it" 21:31:57 ah 21:32:14 ais523, is it public domain? 21:32:28 I don't know 21:32:37 I assume so, given that it's on the wiki, but I don't know for certain 21:32:39 Grrrrr I wish I still had the -- aha 21:32:43 Is it... no. 21:32:45 Ah. 21:32:46 Maybe? 21:33:24 Found it. 21:33:25 http://www.mca-ltd.com/martin/Ten15/introduction.html 21:34:19 "The compilers were (loosely speaking) just functions from "text objects" to module values, and a module value was just a record containing the interface specification, and compiled data and function values. There were no such things as include files; if a program needed to link with a library, then (a capability to) the library's module value was simply inserted into the persistent "text object" holding the program's source." 21:34:40 Programmed in Algol-68 except with first class functions. 21:34:41 SO COOL. 21:34:47 And OS GC. 21:36:25 elliott_: Algol but with first class functions? what was the syntax for declaring variables that held functions? 21:36:26 So is this @lgol? 21:41:21 CURSE IT WIKIA 21:41:56 Why have you been randomly cursing Wikia lately. 21:42:11 Phantom_Hoover: because Wikia deserves to be randomly sweared at 21:42:18 Are you on the MSPA wiki and being driven mad by the interstitials? 21:42:20 I know I have. 21:42:33 the skin thing was the last straw for me 21:42:57 I still read it sometimes, but have a browser extension force it to monobook, and no longer correct mistakes I see on Wikia wikis 21:44:42 Phantom_Hoover, more by my inability to just middle-click external links 21:44:54 Yeah, that's extremely frustrating. 21:45:22 At least right-click -> open in new tab works properly for me 21:45:38 I was trying to make a Greasemonkey script to disable it, but it didn't work. 21:45:50 * Sgeo__ vaguely remembers that his trackpad doesn't have a middle button, and that he 21:45:56 he's been Ctrl-clicking 21:46:36 mine does, but I've been control-clicking anyway 21:46:37 elliott_: Algol but with first class functions? what was the syntax for declaring variables that held functions? 21:46:45 it just let functions escape their closure thing 21:46:50 so, same as declaring a nested one 21:46:50 because to middle-click, you have to simultaneously hold down both ends of the button bar, or else tap the top-right corner 21:46:54 elliott_: ah, OK 21:47:37 I middle-click with three fingers FWIW 21:48:14 the touchpad here can't detect that 21:48:21 either that or the driver can't, but that seems less likely 21:48:33 especially as it acts like a single-touch touchpad would if you put multiple fingers on it 21:48:47 I have a proper middlebutton for my trackpoint, but not for the touchpad 21:48:56 not that I use the touch pad 21:50:01 ais523: well, it doesn't work in OS X, but it does in Linux 21:51:15 elliott_, how do you do it in OS X? 21:53:34 night → 21:54:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: :::). 21:55:01 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:56:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:01:04 installing samba will allow use of the gnome file sharing preference on ubuntu, right? 22:01:24 -!- ralc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:01:40 it seems to recommend apache, though 22:06:04 -!- azaq23 has joined. 22:10:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:11:07 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:15:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:24:03 -!- TOGoS has left. 22:35:31 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:40:18 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 22:40:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:44:21 man i used to really not understand filesystem organisation. 22:51:41 -!- TOGoS1 has joined. 22:53:58 -!- TOGoS1 has left. 22:57:53 Searching Samba shares: the slowest thing? 22:59:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:00:23 New post on the forum (and a reply by me) 23:01:06 SOUND THE ALARM BELLS 23:01:10 Is it Timwi asking how to contact Graue? 23:01:14 Hell is very cold today: DNF went gold. 23:01:21 ...no 23:01:27 pikhq: AND someone posted on the esolangs forum 23:01:30 more interesting than that :D 23:01:34 oerjan: He's done that at least twice to my knowledge :P 23:01:36 elliott_: Hell is positively chilly, then. 23:01:38 Maybe even thrice. 23:01:50 (although not much, if you already know this stuff) 23:02:12 hm I wonder who's spreading such MISCONCEPTIONS 23:02:36 * oerjan guesses who is elliott_'s first suspect 23:02:58 So, it will almost certainly be out June 14. 23:02:58 erm who is my first suspect in your estimation 23:03:06 pikhq: oh, you mean the /real/ date of the rapture 23:03:08 everyone was just off by a few 23:03:15 (unless some horrendous mishap occurs) 23:03:19 SUDDENLY EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE. 23:03:32 elliott_: Yes, the rapture will actually take up the true believers in Duke. 23:04:23 the game will probably be inevitably shitty 23:04:48 I wouldn't go that far. It *could* actually be decent. 23:04:57 It most *certainly* will fail to live up to the hype. 23:09:00 just like the rapture 23:09:26 where is my old code :(((((((( 23:09:46 the bits rotted 23:09:51 har har 23:09:56 this is an important part of my childhood oerjan 23:10:28 oh 23:10:29 well :P 23:10:29 that was pretty facetious 23:10:29 in case you couldn't tell 23:10:29 whew 23:10:41 well i mean 23:11:31 it's certainly part of my childhood insofar as I never bothered having one ;D 23:11:34 Phantom_Hoover: because Wikia deserves to be randomly sweared at 23:11:45 what is with ais being emotional lately 23:12:09 he has? 23:12:17 ...that was an example 23:12:20 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:12:22 21:41:21: CURSE IT WIKIA 23:12:22 21:41:56: Why have you been randomly cursing Wikia lately. 23:12:22 21:42:11: Phantom_Hoover: because Wikia deserves to be randomly sweared at 23:12:25 I never thought ais523 was Dr. Gears 23:12:31 that's just ais expressing a standard anti-Wikia position 23:12:38 phrased in a humorous manner wrt Sgeo's line 23:12:49 oerjan: note that ais isn't the one who actually cursed. 23:12:56 elliott_: well he elaborated a bit 23:13:03 Is "CURSE IT" a curse? 23:13:06 I'm not sure how that's emotional 23:13:10 Sgeo__: by ais' standards, probably 23:13:11 no, but i didn't recall him having that strong opinions 23:13:24 maybe i've just not paid attention 23:13:27 that... doesn't seem strong at all to me :D 23:13:34 Aargh, curse Windows 23:13:38 Why have you been cursing Windows lately. 23:13:39 elliott_: there was that event the other day though 23:13:42 Windows deserves it 23:13:46 oerjan: what event? 23:14:07 Incidentally, I said "curse" it and not a word I wanted to say since I didn't want to offend ais523 23:14:08 sorry if I'm being dense 23:14:19 Sgeo__: he doesn't care about inanimate objects, AFAICT 23:14:22 or indeed other people, much 23:14:33 it's if you curse him to eternal damnation that he gets paranoid 23:14:40 how dare you! 23:14:43 that was it 23:14:59 18:33:03: you mentioned SpectateSwamp in here? 23:14:59 18:33:05: how dare you! 23:15:02 obviously joking 23:15:13 this may not be obvious if you're not familiar with spectateswamp 23:15:23 indeed i am not 23:15:51 although the rest of the conversation seemed to imply someone a bit nutty 23:16:17 "bit" 23:18:18 I remember someone linked a site claiming he's the stupidest person in the world but that's it 23:18:53 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:20:08 WHERE IS THIIIIS 23:21:01 the site itself or the instance of someone linking to it 23:21:09 or are you talking to yourself 23:22:15 myself 23:26:30 elliott_, where ii2 thii2 23:28:13 We're now replacing the letter i2 with i2? Thii2 plan cannot poi2i2ibly be bad! 23:28:51 the letter "is"? 23:28:55 i2/i2/i2/g 23:29:36 coppro: it's sollux's typing quirk 23:29:45 Sgeo__: i saved you from a long and probably cringeworthy explanation line you're welcome 23:29:58 elliott_: you mean i2ollux? 23:30:11 2ollux 23:30:20 coppro: i might mean tholluckths 23:30:35 sorry [asterisk]tholluckth 23:30:39 coppro, s/i/ii/g 23:30:43 s/s/2/g 23:31:52 you just turned his message into "you mean ii2ollux", congratulations 23:32:25 I don't recognize that character at the start of your linei2, I2geo. 23:32:27 Sgeo__: you also forgot s//two/ but unfortunately most regexp engines don't have DWIM replacements so i will let it pass 23:34:35 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:42:23 thii2 remindi2 me of the problem with i2ubi2tituting i2ingle characteri2 in /// 23:42:51 (it'i2 irreveri2ible) 23:44:34 oerjan: stop butchering the quirk ;_; 23:44:42 a little pang of pain pains inside me each time 23:45:06 also of Victor Borge's number incrementation 23:45:20 what am i butchering? 23:45:44 oerjan, it's one i gets replaced with ii 23:45:49 And s gets replaced with 2 23:45:57 aha 23:46:03 2orry about that 23:46:06 And gets replaced with two 23:46:20 sound of "to", too 23:46:25 Weird how in some circumstances, it's indistinguishable from what you proposed 23:46:32 i mean the "to" in "tonight" doesn't exactly sound like "too" but he still says twonight 23:46:34 god 23:46:36 why am i arguing about this 23:46:37 i'm stupid 23:47:09 And for with four, iirc 23:47:15 iiiirc 23:47:31 um i don't think so but i'll check 23:48:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY6kElOYcd8 23:48:26 Sgeo__: Nope, in fact he's never said four, not once 23:48:38 (grepped /four/ on http://mspaintadventures.com/?search=6_2) 23:48:56 great waste of a minute there elliott 23:48:59 yes i agree elliott 23:49:04 y 23:49:05 Sorry 23:49:13 wut 23:50:20 oh perhaps it is in my documents 23:50:29 (i am searching my _really_ old files) 23:51:56 googling for "sollux" without adding something like "cartoon" doesn't work very well 23:52:18 although the image hits on page two gave a clue 23:52:32 um it is the first link here 23:52:37 Sollux Captor - MS Paint Adventures Wiki 23:52:42 i realise google personalises the results, but 23:52:52 oh 23:53:07 http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Sollux_Captor 23:53:46 well it was 4th here, and somehow my eyes passed it because the "Captor" looked like the kind of thing you would add to the boat trademark that was my first hits 23:54:31 haha 23:54:45 apparently it's a norwegian boat company 23:55:38 do you use norwegian google? 23:55:39 that would explain it if so 23:55:57 well naturally 23:56:15 in fact that's the _only_ relevant hit on the first page