< 1306368170 351058 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1306368245 45684 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306368751 984267 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306368806 409413 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306368882 420395 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-214-228.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1306369965 685126 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1306370739 164194 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN MORE HOMESTUCK < 1306370746 747444 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott et. al. < 1306370761 748561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah um I check often enough you don't have to remind me. :p < 1306370810 621357 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you check several times a day? < 1306370824 676038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who doesn't? < 1306370853 75146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually this time it was that I loaded the SA thread and someone mentioned a new update. :p < 1306370892 711801 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the past few minutes? (Just want to be sure we're on the same page here) < 1306370954 755496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306370963 758785 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:48:12: In the past few minutes? (Just want to be sure we're on the same page here) < 1306370964 309668 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1306370972 687100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306370974 89769 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1306371204 652222 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, someone renamed the despotic language section in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language to turning tarpit < 1306371233 133720 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't think that's quite right... < 1306371316 364888 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1306371319 645988 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing tarpit and...turning tarpit? < 1306371330 73021 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of _course_ it's a pun < 1306371377 111543 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they should instead rename it to "Despotic languages (turning tarpit)" < 1306371385 558946 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In Wikipedia, I mean) < 1306371474 391390 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306371493 798153 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is LOLCODE really an esoteric programming language? < 1306371497 69337 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C with different syntax < 1306371512 640054 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the black sheep of the family < 1306371540 615986 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly _intended_ to be esoteric, yet it's so only in a very shallow way < 1306371978 688412 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shitty < 1306371986 580247 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric : although i don't think that's quite right... < 1306371988 558106 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso? < 1306371991 870386 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we agreed is a better name < 1306372226 331537 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try harder!!! < 1306372338 823143 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i mean they are not actually _synonyms_ < 1306372345 136045 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turning tarpit has to _turn_ < 1306372385 778224 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well meharharharbaraba said that despotic was just another name for a turning tarpit < 1306372388 718915 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. < 1306372390 938777 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]so... < 1306372398 126238 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "turning tarpit" is a misnomer already :) < 1306372636 628316 :micah|insane!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306372731 338450 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the three articles in the category pretty much fits the definition of turning tarpit on our wiki. it is just not the same as the definition on wikipedia (which was the definition of despotic language) < 1306372844 939379 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1306372985 718028 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: LOLCODE is composed principally of fecal matter. < 1306373045 678170 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306373233 767765 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306373650 322399 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's thundery outside, and my scaredy cat has shoved herself uncomfortably under my chest :P < 1306373751 223995 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missed opportunity to say "scaredy cat cat". < 1306373769 622954 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be "scaredy-cat cat" X-P < 1306373776 839841 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scaredy cat-cat. < 1306374222 865224 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N Free download of 7 Khoon Maaf‎; 01:26 . . (+5,110) . . Anicgibcamp (Talk | contribs) (New page:


'''[http://popmovz.com/415894?pnr_id=667 Download 7 Khoon Maaf movie, CLICK HERE!!!]'''


All formats: DVD, DivX, Xvid, Avi, Mkv, Mp4, HD, Blu-Ray
Downlaod video fo...) < 1306374223 556678 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally < 1306374233 194359 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive wanted to download 7 Khoon Maaf for my entire life < 1306374236 65980 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i can do it for fee < 1306374238 94800 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :free < 1306374238 782057 :lameNOT!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net NICK :lament < 1306374241 659727 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you Anicgibcamp < 1306374243 518045 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you so much < 1306374247 63266 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1306374865 266044 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N Yutham Sei Divx Hd‎; 01:51 . . (+2,934) . . Easmapohand (Talk | contribs) (New page:


'''[http://popmovz.com/422588?pnr_id=667 Download Yutham Sei movie, CLICK HERE!!!]'''


All formats: DVD, DivX, Xvid, Avi, Mkv, Mp4, HD, Blu-Ray
Downlaod video for ...) < 1306374866 178963 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1306374867 744128 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN MORE DOWNLOADS < 1306375450 649401 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohston < 1306375453 818714 :micahjohston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micah|irssi < 1306375457 572526 :micah|irssi!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micah||| < 1306375461 756784 :micah|||!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306375468 999465 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :ec|ec < 1306375551 210094 :ec|ec!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306375738 297470 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :mj|irssi < 1306375759 276945 :mj|irssi!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306375835 549163 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1306375839 57887 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :micahjohnston: stop < 1306375850 846786 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly micahjohnston is a secret agent communicating in nick changes < 1306375875 217641 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must accept this as a matter of utmost importance to global security < 1306375877 997752 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, the period of nick changes convey the information. < 1306375887 680201 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :periods* < 1306375889 215815 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :steganickraphy < 1306375894 986889 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nick itself does not have any meaning. < 1306375914 132823 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah a clever ruse < 1306375940 168763 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except this needs some heavy error correction to beat lag < 1306376000 344866 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reality some kind of modulation would have to be in use. < 1306376039 693835 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :not-quite-correc < 1306376055 50663 :not-quite-correc!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :theyreontome < 1306376064 831655 :theyreontome!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306376107 911442 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not-quite-correc"? clearly this scheme is using self-reference < 1306376136 769232 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :oerjanisoverthin < 1306376145 138421 :oerjanisoverthin!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :overthinking < 1306376150 26961 :overthinking!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306376158 401059 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :story of my life < 1306376240 904066 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan you're overthin < 1306376243 294040 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat a sandwich or something :/ < 1306376351 924016 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is esco still alive? < 1306376365 499023 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :heisnotthin < 1306376368 388075 :heisnotthin!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306376541 83949 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306376548 308735 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1306376966 976095 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: doubtful :P < 1306377035 295746 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yeah, actually (as i mentioned hours ago) i'm working on something like it < 1306377064 706963 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the main architecture differs. < 1306377115 790151 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it less terrible than Esco? :) < 1306377121 873078 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this esotope? < 1306377126 87421 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306377131 732147 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mearie.org/esotope/esotope < 1306377139 840162 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO such a project is interesting if it shares backends. < 1306377145 181915 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that anyway. < 1306377204 893059 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, esotope attempts to implement N^2 combination from input language to output language, when there are N languages < 1306377213 465547 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinations* < 1306377274 940609 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since it is infeasible, i instead implement much less number of those combinations and fill the remaining cases transitively < 1306377312 706856 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example if one has a processor from Text to Brainfuck, and one from Brainfuck to Ook!, then you don't have to write a processor from Text to Ook! < 1306377327 939733 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an EsoInterpreters type thing < 1306377342 602680 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's suboptimal when the language is not Ook!, but better than nothing. < 1306377345 718457 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: exactly. < 1306377365 782767 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to this end i had to implement some kind of meta-object system in ocalm < 1306377367 426652 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml* < 1306377387 529170 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks feasible? :p < 1306377449 184851 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked yet :) < 1306377452 656645 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, obligatory - < 1306377455 498288 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell Haskell Haskell ;D < 1306377459 470593 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1306378230 997971 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a common backend thing for esoteric languages might be interesting < 1306378241 718180 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, most of the bf tape optimisations aren't specific to bf, they work for any tape-with-head structure < 1306378361 485080 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a good word for rejecting-out-of-snobbery? < 1306378407 845283 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Douchebaggery. < 1306378416 726509 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something i can put in a paper :P < 1306378423 453188 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Have you considered using not-Make? < 1306378430 655241 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh please :P < 1306378441 24737 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: :P < 1306378493 759092 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly more serious note: any particular reason for Ocaml? < 1306378503 838953 :Aune!~arne@piggelin.lysator.liu.se QUIT :Quit: Hath Deprated < 1306378776 787762 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i) of course i dislike make generally, but for now i'm going to stick to it. ii) to use both imperative and functional features. < 1306378795 296472 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION afk < 1306379166 175911 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is good at that too ;D < 1306379190 815055 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, only in Haskell are imperative actions first-class. < 1306379193 347141 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1306380068 119253 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it ever get to be a pain using monad transformers? < 1306380434 873325 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306380600 267382 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, TV Tropes on Homestuck comments that the wiki takes what trolls say at face value < 1306380610 230458 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-176-233.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306380617 499924 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the entire community consist of portions taking pot shots at each other? < 1306380650 784172 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know since I'm not stupid enough to read the TV Tropes page, which consists of an alphabetical listing of every trope on the entire site. < 1306380677 114407 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never found any incorrect information on the wiki but I'm not exactly cross-referencing things. < 1306380685 200545 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does it say that anyway. < 1306380810 479102 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Homestuck/TropesS-U search for Unreliable Narrator < 1306380822 47396 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306380836 539028 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306380890 725837 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some random person added that :P < 1306380897 361866 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like anyone would notice anyone adding anything to those pages < 1306380901 523137 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering they're all fives miles long < 1306380942 542462 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway who cares, the tv tropes page is interminably boring < 1306381495 552328 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306381513 829145 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang wiki is not supposed to be the movie downloading wiki < 1306381559 913685 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS NOW. < 1306381580 142777 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: blanking the pages is a waste of time, wait for an admin < 1306381634 893307 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe it reduces their google hits in some cases < 1306381664 234666 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I know, that is why I only put it on one of them. < 1306381737 442468 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i wonder if google detects links that are frequently removed... < 1306381771 627978 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we use nofollow < 1306381771 995778 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1306381819 330029 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway the permalink is still in recent changes < 1306381842 840713 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as a link < 1306381874 82204 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION back < 1306381905 176800 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, and it was quite painful for me to get used on it. ;) < 1306381912 384319 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean to the article version. that simply _has_ to be nofollow, otherwise we'd get swamped like haskellwiki once was < 1306381927 441301 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or robots.txt, even < 1306381942 129351 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a new esolang added called "Hatter". I don't know if "\apply" is allowed < 1306381966 629736 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm also trying to learn ocaml in the course of the development (i do write code in Haskell as my daily job...) so it actually does not matter :p < 1306381978 314153 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, < 1306381992 420884 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: psht, real haskellers don't get paid for it < 1306381998 47200 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, links are nofollow < 1306381998 564432 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[THINLY DISGUISED JEALOUSY] < 1306382011 702505 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "A numeric constant behaves as a hat that always yields the corresponding value. Data dropped into a numeric constant is lost." Is the "nop" hat similar? < 1306382042 702421 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does tvtropes still exist < 1306382057 706187 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, as a part of my research, actually. *wink* < 1306382066 808606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: because humanity is dead. RIP. < 1306382068 27285 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Probably because they have a lot of things and informations on there. < 1306382072 115085 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: >:E < 1306382083 136339 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :tvtropes is the next wikipedia < 1306382087 542829 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon we'll be feeding it into our AIs < 1306382090 573188 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can impersonate nerds < 1306382093 106472 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1306382093 601881 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1306382095 176317 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most obnoxious ais < 1306382097 11006 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is a different set of information, it is a different kind of things. < 1306382100 572418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every sentence would start < 1306382103 607376 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This Troper" < 1306382116 796301 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia is one thing, TV Tropes is other things. < 1306382120 855809 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think ais would like tvtropes fed into him < 1306382126 720680 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, no, but the AI will automatically generate a work using its knowledge of tropes in order to amuse itself. < 1306382129 146637 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: whenever i need tautologies < 1306382132 506134 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can always rely on you to deliver them < 1306382162 503879 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay good point < 1306382173 221025 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will read tvtropes but ignore the 'examples' list < 1306382174 645850 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Unless it was the AI designed specifically for that purpose, maybe? < 1306382185 659783 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: whoosh < 1306382267 123538 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey zzo38 < 1306382271 889024 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :burgers are made of koala fish < 1306382274 469649 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1306382277 73529 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all koalas are space < 1306382279 990309 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your opinions? < 1306382293 14053 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't know. < 1306382360 177639 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up the 'unexamples' list, in case of Uncyclopedia. < 1306382372 21393 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1306382557 270231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :New kind of exotic code golf: Make amount of alnum same as amount of symbol, and put (alnum=sym) after your name. < 1306382578 65317 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so exotic < 1306382590 868740 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: would you be willing to critique a draft of an introduction to a paper im writing? < 1306382601 982373 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if it was tomorrow and not five am today < 1306382603 351867 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or er < 1306382605 877016 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if it was later today < 1306382611 830489 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i am saying is no, but yes if you're asking future me < 1306382614 133496 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :later today is fine! < 1306382617 263238 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least what i assume future me is going to be like < 1306382624 243620 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might actually decide to hate you way too much to do it < 1306382624 951685 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1306382625 157639 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :future D: < 1306382626 569315 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timey wimey < 1306382628 63157 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :youll have to ask him when he starts existing < 1306382634 296704 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after i become him < 1306382636 624483 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :transform into him < 1306382647 89306 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :REGENERATE, IF YOU WILL < 1306382658 38450 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that is definitely what you think is taking place here. < 1306382735 85244 :micahjohnston!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :everyone < 1306382743 725275 :everyone!~ec@174.129.205.205 NICK :micahjohnston < 1306382839 55954 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1306382841 64044 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/cwatc_draft.pdf < 1306382878 838001 :SimonRC!~sc@217.155.91.250 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306382943 984836 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should remove all references to "i", they make the paper impure and ugly. < 1306382952 328286 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i didn't want to pretend people didn't exist i wouldn't be reading something set in computer modern. < 1306382971 736139 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: :X < 1306382981 749314 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want more coherent opinions WHOOPS YOU'RE SHIT OUT OF LUCK but slightly more amusing (but equally incoherent) ones will be available once i've slept < 1306382984 983176 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate using the impersonal style < 1306382987 921330 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels unnatural < 1306383012 259359 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i shall stick with the fun DT literature in using personal pronouns < 1306383030 224266 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1306383031 916194 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words < 1306383037 659705 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its good enough for conor, its good enough for me < 1306383056 19679 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but theres a difference < 1306383064 138242 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conor mcbride is fucking god incarnate and pretty much the best person to ever live < 1306383065 244470 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre not < 1306383068 545407 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuase youre not conor mcbride < 1306383074 484028 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to do that < 1306383077 808193 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will have to become conor mcbride < 1306383182 241848 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true < 1306383186 397307 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about mcbride being awesome < 1306383189 171109 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fucking love his accent < 1306383214 917889 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheres he from, btw < 1306383219 670637 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he sounds northern of some sort < 1306383232 285170 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scotland < 1306383240 985910 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1306383241 525296 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i'm very much mistaken. < 1306383243 180321 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he actually sounds a bit like arthur darvill to me < 1306383249 694571 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and darvill is from birmingham < 1306383268 937392 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well aren't his two universities he's been at both in scotland... < 1306383271 575776 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fairly good evidence :P < 1306383291 671472 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no wait < 1306383305 119707 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strathclyde is glasgow < 1306383308 65703 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dunno < 1306383309 527517 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isnt he also at nottingham? < 1306383310 834828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but nottingham isnt :P < 1306383316 55410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he used to be < 1306383324 617715 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is epigram two out yet < 1306383330 474037 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his current email is at nottingham < 1306383346 498635 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if his site is up to date < 1306383353 584839 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.e-pig.org/epilogue/?p=802 < 1306383355 306831 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maybe ()"? < 1306383357 177604 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a pointless type < 1306383367 350704 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i guess it might be to use the maybe monad < 1306383392 397749 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nottingham is east midlands < 1306383402 889032 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :last myth adventures comic :( < 1306383412 173970 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not tooo far from birmingham < 1306383434 165811 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe () ~= Bool! < 1306383446 675410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1306383450 430064 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1306383451 25074 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: not strictly true in haskell < 1306383451 852821 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe () has one more element < 1306383455 621013 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo bottom < 1306383462 784137 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a dangerous thing to modulo :) < 1306383466 810797 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1306383467 96572 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine it's being used for the maybe monad here anyway < 1306383473 732274 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't have a bool monad after all < 1306383481 327650 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep indeed it is < 1306383485 707043 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot, True, False vs. Bot, Nothing, Just (), Just Bot < 1306383490 412345 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ < 1306383491 474496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftfy < 1306383494 562112 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\bot < 1306383496 357937 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kthxbai < 1306383535 713685 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a full unicode cultist < 1306383539 221482 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Silent cumulativity is a kind of subtyping, and if you are not scared of subtyping, you have not properly understood it." < 1306383563 171439 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i read conor's paper on ornamental algebras todayesterday < 1306383572 726736 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :todayesterday < 1306383573 638692 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it yestertoday < 1306383574 1505 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a nice word < 1306383592 349809 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what will you do todaymorrow < 1306383600 953947 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what a fucking paper man < 1306383602 191893 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep hopefully < 1306383615 250119 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully indeed < 1306383641 927645 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rpscontest.com/ this is cool < 1306383649 36137 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top programs are all pretty short, too < 1306383736 13187 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will now be going to sleep, indeed < 1306383738 120893 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1306383751 88555 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric : /msg me with comments on the intro, elliott_, oerjan < 1306383757 366057 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why /msg < 1306383761 395106 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a perfectly good channel right here < 1306383792 729339 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: scrollback! :( < 1306383795 657305 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fine < 1306383797 373536 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ping me < 1306383799 528963 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sleeping too < 1306383806 951256 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you comment < 1306383916 83 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what makes me sad? < 1306383924 684415 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :K&R C and Smalltalk are contemporary languages. < 1306383935 202403 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Smalltalk is the *older of the two*) < 1306383965 465306 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure about that < 1306383969 776813 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1306383982 560044 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk. 1972. C. 1973. < 1306384024 199622 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt c older than that, thats just the first release < 1306384032 705844 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took until nineteen eighty for smalltalk to go public < 1306384033 243993 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo < 1306384038 399731 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should find C's inception date instead < 1306384041 333497 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like late sixties i believe < 1306384049 549747 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1969 vs. 1969, then. < 1306384073 224004 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "The C Programming Language" came out in 1978. < 1306384121 136621 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but unix w/ c came out in seventy-three < 1306384129 457423 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people didn't not use c until the book did they :P < 1306384132 225300 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1306384161 528951 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. *Smalltalk and C are contemporary languages*. < 1306384162 190135 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im going to < 1306384162 764024 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep < 1306384163 148018 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1306384164 368803 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1306384166 808504 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1306384172 410348 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i wish smalltalk caught on rather than c. < 1306384174 896838 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1306384186 535722 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should really get an fpga set-up. xeightsix sucks. < 1306384186 947684 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1306384187 647810 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1306384188 369718 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1306384188 484725 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1306384188 897576 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1306384189 795717 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1306384191 759381 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1306384241 996092 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnight < 1306384322 834488 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you critique too! < 1306384455 986149 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1306384961 295126 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1306385087 506355 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306385809 472391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306386002 365585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-248-202.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306386012 63911 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306390093 296704 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at my C codes of Deadfish for a few minutes and failed to see how to make any more shorter. I already have three question marks and adding more will just make it even longer! < 1306390642 907361 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db43b9d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1306390722 473162 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c 1^256&&1 < 1306390764 278662 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1306390765 112845 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1306390774 161231 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306390787 702875 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",1^256&&1); < 1306390789 807675 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​1 < 1306390795 381330 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",256^256&&1); < 1306390797 617196 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​0 < 1306390810 157365 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1306390814 622004 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",256^256&&256); < 1306390816 899030 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​0 < 1306391157 473922 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, it is really weird to think that once upon a time, typing was a relatively uncommon skill. < 1306391181 83841 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/typing/touch typing/ < 1306391190 346285 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially before the 19th century < 1306391226 549953 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, it was obviously an uncommon skill before the invention of the typewriter. < 1306391239 172719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only time travellers could really be said to have the skill, after all. < 1306391362 696763 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306392212 463096 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of C code are you trying to write? < 1306392248 529427 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, me? < 1306392270 25378 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had an idea for doing the deadfish 256 test < 1306392273 992236 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ^ does not mean what you think it means. :) < 1306392287 711127 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: want to bet? < 1306392306 740340 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, yeah, you probably are meaning to use it as bitwise xor. < 1306392318 691909 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda glossed over the boolean ands for some reason. < 1306392351 302931 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should sleep. < 1306392384 997784 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1306392982 309863 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Remember the order of precedence of operators in C, and how && and || works. Whatever you wrote is clearly not working I just used something like (~x&&x-256) which results in zero when you are -1 or 256 or in one otherwise. < 1306393011 528747 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what's not working about it? < 1306393027 708689 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",3^256&&3); < 1306393030 163190 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​1 < 1306393036 755259 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1306393075 185711 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, && doesn't return its last argument :( < 1306393107 342556 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1306393116 264387 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is not the same as in JavaScript. && converts to boolean and || also converts to boolean. If you want like || in JavaScript you can use ?: in GNU C. < 1306393116 929337 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that what ? is for? < 1306393135 24188 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With nothing else in between the ? and : signs) < 1306393140 479386 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i was trying to find something shorter than using ? < 1306393161 762220 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could still use ^ for the test though, it's shorter than != < 1306393162 52302 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we need to make GoC < 1306393165 89590 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along the lines of Goruby < 1306393225 927633 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",3^256?:3); < 1306393231 894816 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​259 < 1306393246 690378 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I didn't know about that one < 1306393248 684214 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that didn't help < 1306393252 170031 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the argument tests to true, it prints the argument? < 1306393271 604675 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? it prints always < 1306393275 88309 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x?:y is the same as x?x:y in GNU C. < 1306393290 190137 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the left size of ?: is nonzero then that is the result and it will skip the part afterward, if zero then it does evaluate the right part. < 1306393294 80541 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pikhq said < 1306393294 194176 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know about that shortcut < 1306393302 780033 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently ?: doesn't have low enough precedence < 1306393302 987417 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a GNU-ism. < 1306393307 817328 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, except that it will not cause "x" evalulated twice < 1306393348 344055 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, yeah, it more accurately maps out to ({ typeof (x) _x = x; _x?_x:y; }) < 1306393358 967930 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more GNU!) < 1306393410 205190 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc x?:y is also different than x?x:y in that it doesn't evaluate x twice < 1306393414 127034 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait ?: is like ||, not && < 1306393425 571376 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's wrong < 1306393430 111095 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: As we discussed. < 1306393438 294746 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I must have missed it < 1306393456 188155 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",3^256?3:); < 1306393457 493802 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an official golf challenge for a deadfish interp? < 1306393457 832770 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Does not compile. < 1306393463 520191 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1306393471 729626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes < 1306393476 538197 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",!3^256?:3); < 1306393476 721211 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anarchy golf is official < 1306393478 695612 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​256 < 1306393482 150830 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH < 1306393486 697338 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",(!3^256)?:3); < 1306393488 754357 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​256 < 1306393506 220890 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no point in that < 1306393506 394933 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Fuck me, I should sleep. < 1306393515 792136 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anagol is the MOST official < 1306393526 409264 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",3^256?3:0); < 1306393528 584134 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​3 < 1306393565 901046 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one works < 1306393590 587006 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pity golf.shinh.org doesn't let you have arbitrarily many input/output pairs < 1306393669 958795 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is true, but it is also true that you can post multiple submissions by () after your name < 1306393707 729696 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean, you can't pose problems that force you to implement the entirety of a problem, just whatever you can fit in three tests < 1306393717 340986 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you multiplex tests together but that's just a pain to have to do for every entry < 1306393762 341343 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be okay even if they just allowed ten tests < 1306393763 983196 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for deadfish it is easy to add more than one test, since each input can have many commands. however the deadfish golf still manages to miss some important tests < 1306393780 313406 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real golf challenge should require more than ten tests < 1306393780 955245 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah 10 would be good for most things < 1306393783 685845 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Which ones? Be specific? < 1306393798 495944 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it never increments or decrements to 256 < 1306393825 354813 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some of the submissions cheat by only testing on squaring < 1306393860 717249 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everyone knows they are CHEATERS < 1306393866 402922 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306393867 424885 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I know... but, at least, you can set the deadline, so it can be checked afterward. You can also put like (cheat) (embed) (genuine) (exec) and whatever else afterward. < 1306393898 895896 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, yes, so that's how they made their C codes shorter... I don't mind posting such solutions as long as they are clearly marked as such... < 1306393941 9719 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spy one such cheater IN THIS VERY CHANNEL < 1306393957 354302 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROTECT US FROM THE CHEATER OERJAN < 1306394025 371919 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i haven't made any submissions. < 1306394051 337450 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, grammar ambiguity < 1306394085 341344 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, they might. i haven't seen the c code < 1306394111 558854 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will see on Friday, then. < 1306394115 176512 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've seen python code which did use that cheat < 1306394127 738379 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell < 1306394200 209073 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i considered making a haskell one but when my first try was much much longer than the leader... < 1306394235 895008 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Send it anyways, maybe... < 1306394240 740741 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is haskell good for golfing? < 1306394255 842097 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my first try was a modification of someone else's < 1306394262 545453 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: well it's better than java :D < 1306394291 310475 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, in that case, you don't need to. < 1306394292 182621 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1306394366 221406 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think haskell is not-very-good for golfing ... maybe not bad, but many useful function names are long and lots of stuff require import statements < 1306394385 960038 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1306394397 964606 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: All that means is you have different challenge to determine to use function with short name or whatever else it is. < 1306394417 123982 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean obviously haskell's never going to beat golfscript < 1306394421 755050 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way my C code is written, it seems that trying to make it check only on squaring doesn't make it shorter anyways. (If I could make it shorter using cheats, I would use separate submissions using () after my name, but I can't.) < 1306394422 299152 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it entertaining to minimize < 1306394457 168144 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1306394461 16492 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Yes, but each language is a separate challenge. < 1306394498 689466 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskellers like to make point-free code, which sometimes is more compact. but not always, it tends to add parentheses. < 1306394541 570705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course some of that suffers from the import problem, which is not an issue with lambdabot < 1306394568 854292 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except that lambdabot has too many imports sometimes so inconsistent things crash) < 1306394619 848061 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for really compact point-free code, you want to import at least Control.Applicative, Control.Arrow and Control.Monad.Instances) < 1306394695 714311 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably Data.List and Control.Monad for higher order combinators < 1306394822 632869 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, the tags you put after your name in anarchy golf, can be two kinds, cheats and exotics. < 1306394847 520016 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(embed) is a common one < 1306394874 579571 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is a common one falling into the "cheats" category in my categorization of two kinds. < 1306395012 66013 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nubBy(((>1).).gcd)[2..] < 1306395013 498069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101... < 1306395014 670800 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common tags for "exotics" include (bin) (nobin) (alnum) (sym) while some others in the "cheats" category might include (embed) (cheat) (exec) (noexec) (genuine) (luck) (rand) note sometimes tags indicate presence of cheating and sometimes absence of cheating < 1306395030 459429 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: ^ < 1306395035 461257 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooo, clever < 1306395148 113347 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one with scanl for fibonacci which i have forgotten < 1306395191 572161 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1306395257 641600 :shachaf!~shachaf@208.69.183.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ((1:).scanl(+)1) -- This? < 1306395261 5866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1... < 1306395266 859035 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does fix too? < 1306395267 445923 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it was < 1306395283 963672 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the fixpoint combinator < 1306395284 153707 :shachaf!~shachaf@208.69.183.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Fixed-point combinator. fix f = f (fix f) < 1306395335 478572 :shachaf!~shachaf@208.69.183.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What ar eyou doing in this channel instead of #haskell? :-) < 1306395358 142474 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was here before i was in #haskell < 1306395608 523595 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :morn < 1306395626 811307 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :morndu < 1306395672 371230 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems while my eyes were closed, some time passed. < 1306395693 903467 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike this < 1306395987 89062 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oerjan how about the fact that if you have two exact sequences of length 5 and you have an onto homomorphism between the first nodes, an isomorphism between the second and fourth nodes and a one-to-one homomorphism between the fifth ones, then if the middle is a homomorphism it is an isomorphism < 1306396018 270942 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just something < 1306396034 83174 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very nice fact which i used in the first article i published < 1306396039 226278 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306396041 975321 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1306396044 482888 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306396047 520750 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306396073 208652 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i recall the referee wanted us to remove it, so we had to clarify that it was actually needed < 1306396112 144733 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it used very often or do we just have very a similar aesthetic sense < 1306396150 236971 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i just grabbed that from a list of 50 random "preliminary" definitions and lemmas < 1306396171 858584 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why i quoted preliminary, did some heavy editing on that sentence < 1306396287 26352 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just read all your articles < 1306396294 514397 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOULDN'T TAKE TOO LONG HUH :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1306396312 581009 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we were doing k-theory, which is a sort of homological algebra, and we had homomorphisms going between two exact sequences and needed to show the important one was an isomorphism - it was pretty much a perfect fit. < 1306396315 406172 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i probably still wouldn't get any of it < 1306396342 975579 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a paper on a k-theoretic approach to symbolic dynamics on my desk < 1306396379 993771 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, is anyone of Giordano, Putnam or Skau involved? < 1306396383 894566 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know what k-theory is, except that it's a sort of homological algebra apparently < 1306396399 860789 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :putnam sounds very familiar, he must be in at least one of the papers i'm reading < 1306396417 937219 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can check today if i manage to drag myself out of the armchair < 1306396437 806690 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well there's also the putnam contest which is something entirely unrelated < 1306396448 469711 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that < 1306396453 915315 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for also being math) < 1306396483 136070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc i've heard "the putnam article" at some point at uni < 1306396486 535170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's putnam? < 1306396527 404787 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ian putnam, a professor who collaborated with my advisor on a breakthrough paper < 1306396543 915908 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my advisor being Skau) < 1306396545 434371 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read "i am putnam" < 1306396568 482446 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the breakthrough paper abourt < 1306396570 359326 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about < 1306396635 792666 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :about classifying cantor set minimal dynamic systems up to orbit equivalence by their k-theory < 1306396743 688492 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm, cantor set minimal dynamic systems, what's that in symbolic dynamics lingo, minimal closed shift-invariant subset of the bi-infinite sequences + shift? < 1306396766 662974 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that first article btw was proving that this classification broke down if you went slightly outside cantor sets < 1306396777 683239 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes i recall us talking about this < 1306396783 547847 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i didn't quite get it since i have to ask < 1306396784 720412 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1306396850 955232 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe the things you mention from shifts are a subset of minimal dynamic systems, the expansive ones < 1306396917 508246 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have the property that there exists an epsilon > 0 such that for any distinct points x and y you can apply the dynamics some number of times to them and get them further away than epsilon < 1306396922 606013 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least shifts are expansive on minimal systems < 1306396926 980691 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah < 1306396940 141755 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm < 1306397007 647622 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm the cantor set is actually more like the one-way infinite sequences? < 1306397008 485744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Can't Believe It's Not Hitler! < 1306397050 815048 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one-way or two-way are homeomorphic, you just need two-way to put a dynamics on it < 1306397094 94057 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so can you somehow connect CA and this stuff? < 1306397111 479722 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bratteli diagrams we used are more like one-sided ones < 1306397144 187988 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe it is hitler < 1306397161 465766 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well CAs have their dynamics sort of in the orthogonal direction, don't they < 1306397175 988561 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :intuitively < 1306397190 870681 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea, do you mean since you think of the dynamics in the cantor set case as a *shift*? < 1306397201 253947 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shift invariant though < 1306397220 837355 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAs are the continuous shift invariant functions yes < 1306397239 274705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while minimal systems are shift invariant _sets_ < 1306397258 600907 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so shift-invariant? so the dynamics is the shift? < 1306397274 106626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well those that are shift systems are so < 1306397291 226946 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what i wanted to hear < 1306397305 304105 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, invariant wrt whatever is the dynamical transformation < 1306397331 757960 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow so this is the same thing symbolic dynamics does really, except symbolic dynamics usually restricts to SFTs and sofic shfits so that you can play with matrices < 1306397361 525905 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and transition graphs < 1306397365 874732 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we played with bratteli diagrams, and an infinite tower of matrices < 1306397389 973755 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bratteli-vershik diagrams, to be precise) < 1306397391 354723 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow your dad must be rich < 1306397403 909613 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1306397412 253021 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because your toys are so much cooler < 1306397438 171865 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my advisor and my co-author, silly < 1306397455 708497 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" well we played with bratteli diagrams, and an infinite tower of matrices" < 1306397468 601858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we < 1306397500 881852 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i never got the impression he was particularly rich. the main algebra professor supposedly was rather well off, though.) < 1306397530 812441 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reasons not related to her work, i think < 1306397627 862017 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the dynamics invariance idea is also played with in cellular automata < 1306397663 166639 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you often let your CA run forever first and then look at the dynamics on the set you get are a result < 1306397665 552482 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :more precisely < 1306397715 188889 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have any feature request and/or ideas for TeXnicard, please tell me; I would like to know. < 1306397716 803969 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a clopen set U is inward if G(U) \sub U, and U's attractor is \cap_i G^i(U) < 1306397756 806367 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :often enough we take the attractor of S^Z because that's what the CA looks like "eventually" < 1306397767 584381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a clopen set? < 1306397769 650204 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306397774 35615 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: closed and open set < 1306397808 452871 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah and the attractor of S^Z is called the limit set, didn't remember that so had to define attractors :P < 1306397814 485053 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistency is important < 1306397838 93612 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are interesting results on the limit set < 1306397846 339210 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :our dynamics was always invertible so we never had that < 1306397862 788869 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance my supervisor proved a rice's theorem for limit sets some years ago < 1306397872 626516 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, this is very different from the kind of stuff you ppl do < 1306397892 636105 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rice's theorem is the one that says you can't say anything about a turing machine's language < 1306397894 257156 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is trivial < 1306397920 234022 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306397937 726627 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for CA, it means for any property P (nontrivial subset of limit sets that *actually occur*), you can't tell if your CA has that property in general < 1306397950 108039 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is much harder to prove < 1306397961 959927 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no connection with the TM case) < 1306398146 276538 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyhow there are less computational questions as well and for the 1D case, a lot of fun little stuff is known about the structure of the attractor "tree" < 1306398168 279027 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimal systems are the leaves i guess < 1306398179 747868 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should go to work at some point i think :D < 1306398478 96466 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in 0-dimensional spaces, clopen sets form a base for the topology < 1306398483 865449 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they are very important < 1306398553 187648 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U is open <==> clopen set around each point of U within U < 1306398580 881079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, i'm just fucking with you, i don't except this to be a very useful lesson < 1306398671 750110 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's "the" definition of dimension according to you? < 1306398720 285205 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for zero dimensions they tend to agree don't they < 1306398754 834319 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly what another guy who studies zero dimensional spaces said when i asked < 1306398759 519120 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the later work on topological measures, the important one was about refinement of coverings < 1306398764 157508 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306398766 885541 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell < 1306398768 868566 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's umm < 1306398796 43641 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always find a refinement such that at most dimension + 1 sets intersect < 1306398797 720723 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1306398809 912133 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :refinement being a.... subset of the cover? :P < 1306398813 255461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although our spaces were compact, which i think makes some variations of _that_ identical again < 1306398824 434839 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actually subset + smallening? < 1306398838 418898 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306398844 679935 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually < 1306398888 191300 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if you might have to take more than one subset of each original open set < 1306398895 912523 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1306398899 876223 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm right < 1306399101 453901 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought for about a day that i had a proof that if a space had dimension >= 2, then there existed nontrivial (non-lebesgue derived) topological measures, but that proof had a fatal flaw. < 1306399122 975267 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the changes they made to Magic: the Gathering, except for the change of the name of the remove from game zone. That zone is still used in the game so it makes sense to change it. Other than that I do not like their changes. < 1306399134 557491 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have 2n balls on a circle, each connected through the middle of the circle to the ball on the other side, have each of them contain a point contained in none of the other balls, and so that the whole circle gets covered, then you have to cut some of the connections in two or you have a huge number of collisions in the middle < 1306399139 585891 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMM < 1306399146 678435 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's not really true < 1306399154 476858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah kind of hard to come up with an example < 1306399191 773205 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would that be a huge thing? < 1306399209 62769 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing you thought you did < 1306399240 324403 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would have determined precisely which compact spaces have nontrivial top. measures < 1306399258 708726 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does every compact space have a dimension? < 1306399272 537923 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1306399281 7945 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense with the refinement thing at least < 1306399282 258010 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be infinite of course < 1306399306 885224 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can't these days < 1306399352 63147 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah topological measures, that was again something you talked about but i don't remember at all < 1306399363 575736 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since the spaces are compact, you can never find a particular cover which needs an infinite subcover < 1306399384 411811 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes no sense to go beyond infinity < 1306399393 251860 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306399436 311028 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond the first infinity < 1306399437 339386 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1306399587 86988 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you explain topological measures again? :) < 1306399594 745985 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1306399623 802333 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you have a compact hausdorff space, and its families of closed and open sets < 1306399634 147685 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306399708 793906 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you have a set function from the union of open and closed sets to some [0, a] where a may usually be assumed = 1 < 1306399745 860775 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1306399774 158488 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it m, and the space X, so m(X) = a < 1306399785 455449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default Magic Word, "Abracadabra", actually is a corruption of the Hebrew phrase "ha-Bracha dab'ra" < 1306399789 103099 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1306399796 261614 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306399798 835968 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye zzo < 1306399824 536307 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A is an open or closed subset of B, then m(A) <= m(B). < 1306399872 791342 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, that's CRAZY!! (i'm being sarcastic btw) < 1306399880 338208 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A, B and C are open or closed subsets, A and B are disjoint and C is their union, then m(A) + m(B) = m(C). < 1306399897 829515 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's additive < 1306399930 862263 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i guess it's useful to open up the definition because of our crazy domain constraints < 1306399956 18514 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but note that if A in B are open or closed subsets, then B \ A need not be, and in that case m(B \ A) does _not exist_, and there is no additivity. < 1306399976 395568 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why it made sense to open the definition < 1306399985 374885 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually the way you usually define it < 1306400004 643436 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is exactly what you said, measurable disjoint things and measurable union => additive on those < 1306400019 774041 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do continue, or are we done < 1306400031 366077 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is possible to formulate the definition exactly like for ordinary measures < 1306400035 152759 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1306400089 343907 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if C is a closed set and epsilon > 0, then there exists an open set O containing C such that m(O) <= m(C) + epsilon < 1306400105 533619 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(regularity) < 1306400122 39292 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306400122 547281 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that may be it < 1306400165 108629 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's pretty neat, why do we even bother with borel sets < 1306400231 680606 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it follow that you can approximate open from inside by compact? < 1306400245 747775 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an important theorem is that if m(A union B) <= m(A) + m(B) for every open or closed A and B such that A union B is open or closed (subadditivity), then m actually comes from a borel measure. < 1306400246 739619 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or closed) < 1306400252 9835 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306400274 704307 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have m(C) + m(X \ C) = m(X), always, which gives a duality < 1306400308 948100 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1306400334 394201 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it's noon, i have to go :P < 1306400335 763632 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1306400344 521383 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1306400576 924556 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1306401135 850277 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306401162 225140 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306401513 607745 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1306403084 41335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1306403509 853001 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a C or C++ library for reading graphics files < 1306403511 180210 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's good? < 1306403821 401070 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but if I use a library I have to supply the library with my assignment too < 1306403826 274016 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are we expected to do it again ?_? < 1306403830 127268 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn university assignments < 1306405616 429411 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could possibly just use one of the trivial formats, maybe. < 1306405853 941094 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1306407927 155261 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306407976 855633 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306408004 715885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello everyone. < 1306408004 796944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1306408075 914378 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's send Phantom_Hoover 42 messages. < 1306408084 654827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noooooooooo < 1306409750 527888 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah like .raw < 1306409754 227771 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I don't know how to convert into it < 1306409756 319778 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise that'd be good < 1306409767 76344 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1306409789 401322 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sydneyarchitecture.com/ROC/ROC006-Sydney_Opera_House_Sails.jpg I need a .raw of the kind of striped texture of the brown surface on this picture < 1306412326 614711 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm, PSP can save as raw. sweet < 1306414833 5775 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also other uncompressed formats with trivial headers. < 1306414865 732507 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall Gimp has raw-writing capabilities too. (Or maybe it was just reading.) < 1306415181 456193 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1306415311 7186 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1306418021 330748 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306418050 379205 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306418053 679802 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306418053 761601 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306418248 156738 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306418464 657652 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Client Quit < 1306418481 787250 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306418836 174976 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: 1... 2... 3... HUGS! :D < 1306418854 325833 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306418894 457113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : There are also other uncompressed formats with trivial headers. <-- I don't know what .raw is, but if it is at all related to raw camera images it will be quite a pain to work with < 1306418951 707590 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Client Quit < 1306418971 724400 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306419199 733646 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1306419875 396699 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1306420785 587739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306421583 535600 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306422877 518453 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-243-1.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1306422880 548188 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306423085 270858 :sebbu2!~sebbu@83.194.55.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306423085 424923 :sebbu2!~sebbu@83.194.55.202 QUIT :Changing host < 1306423085 506703 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306423298 263726 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306424323 568230 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306425307 731778 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1306425381 709136 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306425393 10207 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1306426847 587733 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306427607 263823 :Lymia!~moe@123.120.134.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306427607 385840 :Lymia!~moe@123.120.134.215 QUIT :Changing host < 1306427607 385978 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306428492 938345 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Normally water and electricity don't mix." < 1306428496 440775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, Cracked? < 1306428498 52831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1306428557 87155 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether you're making a comment at the obviousness of that, or that it's technically not distilled water that conducts electricity (iirc) < 1306428662 975188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that water and electricity mix extremely well. < 1306428679 390234 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, lol < 1306428763 348054 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could even explain the logic behind their statement but it's so stupid I... can't. < 1306428871 903196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And distilled water does conduct electricity a little, just not nearly as much as water with dissolved ions does. < 1306428895 159298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, distilled water only conducts electricity because of dissolved ions < 1306428901 9712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out water actually can dissolve in itself < 1306428905 234401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it saturates quickly < 1306428969 891885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OK, but I didn't really feel like explaining dissociation to be technically correct. < 1306428989 424440 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much water can you dissolve in 1L of water? < 1306429111 258181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember offhand < 1306429121 918591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know it's used as the basis for the definition of pH < 1306429152 932964 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pH = -log_10 [H+] where [H+] is the concentration of H+ ions. < 1306429218 503859 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306429238 919486 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much water can you dissolve in 1L of dissolved water? < 1306429249 769103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work that way. < 1306429276 676632 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a joke. < 1306429309 211489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's often not much difference between jokes and interesting questions. < 1306429531 316018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose you could say that a litre of water will have 10^-7 mol of dissolved water in it.) < 1306429548 729403 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306429660 638223 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiment < 1306429669 492965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I applaud whoever got that image onto the article. < 1306429749 25579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still confused by Firefox's absolutely stupid decision to make a self-signed SSL certificate scream loudly < 1306429780 838628 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of the following is more secure, cryptographically: an unencrypted message, or an encrypted message with no assurance of who sent it? < 1306429782 609464 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which image? < 1306429800 70152 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you said "the latter", congrats, you're not a complete, blithering moron! < 1306429833 530595 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, it does become a problem if you're expecting the certificate to verify the owner... < 1306429843 881654 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is "very often" < 1306429857 591656 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which image? < 1306429861 859082 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one. < 1306429912 799116 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: It could at least make a distinction between "this is encrypted" and "the CAs we trust have verified this". < 1306429957 591647 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. < 1306429976 417672 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't self-signed certs still have the power to stop man in the middle attacks, or phishing? < 1306429976 756724 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, beyond "ZOMG THIS IS ENCRYPTED WITH A SELF-SIGNED CERTIFICATE! IT WILL RAPE YOU, GIVE YOUR COMPUTER A VIRUS, AND KICK PUPPIES!" < 1306430020 52455 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: The *only* difference between a self-signed cert and a CA-signed cert is that there is no verification of the identity of the cert holder with a self-signed cert. < 1306430051 550618 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which also mean it doesn't help in man-in-the-middle attacks, because the MITM can just present his own self-signed cert and pretend to be the destination server. < 1306430061 559219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq_ is still confused by Firefox's absolutely stupid decision to make a self-signed SSL certificate scream loudly < 1306430069 867466 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confused by your not using Chrome. < 1306430081 86384 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome Adblock sucks balls. < 1306430082 357396 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if you already have a copy of the cert, you can stop it, can't you? < 1306430086 916950 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to be confused if Chrome allows self-signed certs any more silently. < 1306430087 251612 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used cert A before. < 1306430089 863821 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It now uses cert B. < 1306430106 117997 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Yes, but no browser complains on unexpected certificate changes. < 1306430118 609103 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be cause for concern, shouldn't it? < 1306430146 571211 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the CA-driven (broken) trust model. :p < 1306430174 432451 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSH host key checking works like that, though. < 1306430195 329029 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, the CA-driven trust model is pretty fundamentally broken. < 1306430200 407679 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am going to be confused if Chrome allows self-signed certs any more silently. < 1306430202 278722 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know many people who get the initial host key in any very secure manner most of the time. < 1306430229 409143 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC they display an untrusted certificate by striking through their SHTTP thing. < 1306430242 923943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than opening an alert to tell you. < 1306430263 215917 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Huge difference between "WARNING WARNING WARNING THIS IS UNSIGNED. IT WILL RAPE PUPPIES. WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION?" < 1306430272 24325 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DOING SO WILL RAPE TWICE AS MANY PUPPIES." < 1306430276 624318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I mean. < 1306430298 344651 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a bit strange is that even though it opts for that stance, it then makes the exception permanent by default. < 1306430310 460405 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that makes sense? < 1306430328 658139 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1306430351 585801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they went for a truly secure stance, it'd warn you on non-HTTPS. < 1306430377 6816 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "Hey, none of our CAs recognize this cert." < 1306430384 775607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As, after all, self-signed HTTPS is strictly more secure than HTTP. < 1306430387 386250 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's notify the user if it decides to change" < 1306430403 148187 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but if they want to make sure no-one misses the self-signed cert warning, they could show it by default every time. Though I guess with a permanent exception it does sort-of do the change notification, that's true. < 1306430453 692789 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Except that HTTP < self-signed HTTPS. They warn for the more secure of the two. < 1306430459 633755 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is moronic. < 1306430479 284519 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP is too common to warn on. < 1306430487 63335 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is unfortunate. < 1306430596 144888 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if they wanted to go for "true" security, they'd just do "Warning: your computer has not been turned into a plasma. This may cause some of your personal data to be stolen. Click here to turn your computer into a ball of incandescent gas, a gigantic nuclear furnace." < 1306430688 328891 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306430915 564997 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306430915 645877 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306430915 646019 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306431111 419348 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1306432408 849670 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone here used the Oberon TUI? < 1306432424 384505 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's said that it doesn't have a prompt. how does someone run commands in it? < 1306432613 90212 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306432781 574776 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306432792 594577 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306433299 867116 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a nice emulator for it < 1306433330 530374 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there are penty < 1306433453 474272 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure whether to emulate Oberon in VirtualBox or install it on Windows < 1306433458 853626 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to do the former first < 1306433543 916601 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what's Bluebottle? < 1306433560 53189 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net PART :#esoteric < 1306433606 479060 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, are you installing it now? < 1306433624 153715 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm downloading Bluebottle, not really sure what it is < 1306433721 884267 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based on AOL (active oberon language) < 1306433809 57815 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, i was specifically talking about this TUI: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/OberonScreen.PNG < 1306433888 913237 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oberon has a text user interface (TUI). It combines the point-and-click convenience of a graphical user interface (GUI) with the linguistic strength of a command line interface (CLI) and is closely tied to naming conventions of the Oberon language. Any text appearing on the screen can be edited and used as command input. Nothing like a prompt is required. Although radically different from a commandline, the TUI is very efficient and < 1306433889 175357 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : powerful[4]. A steep ascend in the early learning curve makes it difficult to start with. Its usage and programming interface is documented in Martin Reiser's book "The Oberon System." < 1306434531 458783 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice clown < 1306434562 823550 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CLI means that when you press "ENTER" the command is executed. With a TUI you can do pretty much the same thing, except that the command isn't executed until you click on it. < 1306434565 545994 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-ha < 1306434656 227041 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, it's fairly nifty like that < 1306434666 778238 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i bet it has no vim support < 1306434671 505678 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bluebottle in VirtualBox isn't working for me < 1306434671 833665 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it inherently sucks < 1306434684 434568 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe vb isn't bluebottle certified :X < 1306435001 948525 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-old.oberon.ethz.ch/cli.html < that argument sucks. < 1306435019 406441 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote it in 1999? it's mostly void due to things which already existed in 79. < 1306435235 989678 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:53:24: huh, someone renamed the despotic language section in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language to turning tarpit < 1306435240 17308 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was me, FWIW. < 1306435267 669892 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306435387 993078 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck's minimality borders on elegant and pure language design; in fact it is related to the P'' family of Turing machines. < 1306435393 147627 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"related" :D < 1306435646 320663 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck vs Java. < 1306435646 973283 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go. < 1306435678 485850 :CakeProphet!~adam@h84.48.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306435678 702685 :CakeProphet!~adam@h84.48.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1306435678 784675 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306435876 282398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:45:56: zzo38: not really. i only have opinions on math nowadays :\ < 1306435883 763704 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sorry oko this is clearly false. < 1306435895 284638 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have opinions on which soft drink is best to have sex in, for instance. < 1306435900 413506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1306435903 877185 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that and math < 1306435913 972296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, P'' is a bit of a tarpitisation of BF < 1306435923 379477 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i thought it's the exact same thing < 1306435923 524375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the causality goes the other way < 1306435933 159698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :P'' combines < and flip-bit, I think < 1306435936 257327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also has no I/O < 1306435962 699313 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it combines those. i guess also the binary thing is a bit of a tarpitisation. < 1306435978 137251 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, more so) < 1306436012 489338 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1306436072 611746 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : That was me, FWIW. < 1306436080 388962 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1306436091 363399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are you watching us in Stalker Mode? < 1306436094 722592 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the definition of turning tarpit is _not_ what wikipedia now says it is < 1306436107 878918 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :tur*n*ing tarpit? < 1306436111 891832 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well last i checked) < 1306436113 396642 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a typo or different word? < 1306436118 450161 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's a pun < 1306436138 212092 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. I don't get it. < 1306436150 418900 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is wheel a turning tarpit? < 1306436156 346602 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: also a different word < 1306436177 655462 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Whirl is < 1306436185 259464 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a couple others < 1306436185 855673 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm yeah that. < 1306436221 991845 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway a despotic language did not have to have its command arranged in a wheel-like fashion, so need not be a turning tarpit < 1306436241 571918 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*commands < 1306436578 948912 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : how much water can you dissolve in 1L of water? < 1306436595 598488 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, how much? < 1306436603 608859 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 said water is water-soluble. < 1306436614 544526 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^(-14) something, which is why equal amounts of positive and negative ions gives pH = 7 by what Phantom_Hoover said < 1306436626 989429 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka neutral pH) < 1306436636 437717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, that sounds about right < 1306436647 644335 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1306436658 229422 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could that possibly have to do with 7 < 1306436660 67407 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 10^-7 l/mol of both H+ and OH- ions, so it's effectively 10^-7mol/l of dissolved water. < 1306436668 993742 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 09:40:35 actually, distilled water only conducts electricity because of dissolved ions < 1306436671 946362 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:40:41 it turns out water actually can dissolve in itself < 1306436677 94948 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1306436678 334871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, pH is defined as -log_10 concentration(H+). < 1306436715 620957 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the _product_ of amount of positive and negative ions which is 10^(-14) < 1306436718 764736 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just wondering why a square root is taken when there's an equal amount of A and B < 1306436725 772624 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't actually looking this up, btw < 1306436734 78458 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ^ < 1306436735 4175 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306436752 254966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's because the product stays approximately constant even if you add ions to the mix by hand < 1306436754 442568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oklopol: < 1306436759 912339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default you get equal amounts < 1306436764 556999 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It's 10^-7 l/mol of both H+ and OH- ions, so it's effectively 10^-7mol/l of dissolved water." <<< and how does this have anything to do with the number 10^-14 :D < 1306436774 960003 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it's just the dissociation constant. < 1306436776 260121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say, if you add enough H+ to get 10^-6 H+, you get approximately 10^-8 OH- < 1306436779 942975 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp < 1306436780 930645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it multiplies to 10^-14 always < 1306436802 109835 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading backlog < 1306436806 64007 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Water molecules will pull each other apart until the concentrations are at 10^-7. < 1306436882 504975 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, that's pretty cool < 1306436890 606684 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the solution of water in water conduct electricity? < 1306436911 337269 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: well that's what ais523 said which started this < 1306436928 277692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: yes, although not too well because not a lot of water self-dissolves < 1306436933 816168 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but i thought he meant some other ions < 1306436940 133856 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not water ions. < 1306436955 983708 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was distilled water, it doesn't have any other kind < 1306436972 393447 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "self-dissolves"? < 1306436991 167794 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, distilled water is never 100% pure. i thought he was referring to that. < 1306437004 801870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: no, I'm referring to the way that distilled water nonetheless contains dissolved water < 1306437010 972996 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1306437011 373276 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: some of the water molecules split into H+ and OH- ions < 1306437015 576947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being pure, it couldn't contain dissolved anything else, right? < 1306437017 643533 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fairly revealing < 1306437039 366954 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in typical distilled water, what's the percentage of water ions to all ions? < 1306437053 775992 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no such thing as a water ion. < 1306437065 873785 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean ions that come from water dissolving in water. < 1306437074 474584 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you can it least get it pure enough that the water ions dominate, or this wouldn't be much of a subject < 1306437079 354317 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a shorthand < 1306437088 591625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^-7 l/mol is the concentration. < 1306437108 968057 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he's a german and i'm norwegian, we're predisposed to making up new words < 1306437109 248415 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :concentration in the solution, ok < 1306437133 356993 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you take the mass of all ions in distilled water, and call that 100%, then what part of that is the ions that come from water? < 1306437141 783490 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1306437142 216414 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what part is impurities? < 1306437146 458856 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :("what do you mean it's not a word, i just made it up") < 1306437157 900274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10^-7 * 18)/1000 < 1306437158 511456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `^-' < 1306437162 533538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: all of them come from ions < 1306437164 28349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10^(-7) * 18)/1000 < 1306437164 510488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from water < 1306437164 630302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Negative exponent < 1306437168 265004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's pure by definition < 1306437170 486109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1306437174 86845 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10**(-7) * 18)/1000 < 1306437174 674343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they couldn't come from anywhere else < 1306437174 755475 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.8e-9 < 1306437179 100075 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i mean in the real world, not on paper. < 1306437181 984333 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__, there's your percentage. < 1306437206 434162 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hence i asked about "typical" distilled water < 1306437215 977088 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, i think we're misunderstanding eachother < 1306437246 320482 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number you posted is just the percentage of the mass of ions in the complete mass of the solution, yes? < 1306437248 454906 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :|at < 1306437251 655805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1306437258 651783 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :** < 1306437261 667639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: you mean water that isn't completely pure, but is more pure than tap water? < 1306437272 261586 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want the percentage of the mass of impurities in the mass of all ions. < 1306437291 868552 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, i mean the kind of stuff i get when i buy "distilled water" in a chemist's shop. < 1306437314 132350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: I wouldn't know offhand, and it would probably depend on the chemist < 1306437323 520481 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet < 1306437355 655045 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could ask "how much can you purify water before the process does not improve" < 1306437367 362156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in which case it would depend on the process < 1306437369 10191 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might actually depend on technological progress... < 1306437432 239937 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in the future you can do it much better, but you have to shoot individual ions into a hard vacuum to do it... < 1306437445 201688 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but that's not going to accurately reflect the typicality of that process in the production of distilled water. < 1306437451 574733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, cheater__, can you talk about nothing without trolling? < 1306437463 722845 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1306437492 573012 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "CG: DO I GET ON YOUR CASE FOR ALL THE TERRIBLE HUMANNING YOU DO?" < 1306437495 6873 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: well the point is what process is typical depends on what is available < 1306437509 807480 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm, yes < 1306437522 949466 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's "poster title that caught the eye" entry: "Horror Video Scene Recognition via Multiple-Instance Learning" < 1306437531 476012 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :say in five years they discover a much better process based on sieving through graphene, or something < 1306437537 877541 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Along with the ever-growing Web comes the proliferation of objectionable content, such as pornography, violence, horror information, etc. Horror videos, whose threat to children’s health is no less than pornographic video, are sometimes neglected by existing Web filtering tools. Consequently, an effective horror video filtering tool is necessary for preventing children from accessing these harmful horror videos." < 1306437548 551612 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the abstract.) < 1306437565 206997 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't go to stileproject < 1306437565 854969 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Could they be any more political about it? < 1306437585 735472 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes < 1306437604 8729 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought these types of papers were usually all academic about it and pretended to be oblivious of the real-world applications. :p < 1306437605 111414 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this reminds me of this one quote that said you shouldn't be writing your programs as well as you can, only relatively well < 1306437612 609884 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that "no less" doesn't actually imply that either value is actually large < 1306437614 354578 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because to debug them you need more skill than to write them < 1306437614 967646 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Authors: Jianchao Wang, Bing Li, Weiming Hu, Ou Wu, National Laboratory of Pattern Recognition / Institute of Automation / Chinese Academy of Sciences, China < 1306437632 417453 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they know about filtering content in China. < 1306437691 134791 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how an "academy of sciences" proliferates information hampering, whereas science stands for information propagation. < 1306437714 276412 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like the Ministry of Truth. < 1306437769 243769 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on "color emotion and color harmony theories". < 1306437805 906789 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is possibly the one context those phrases could be used without immediately discrediting the paper they're in. < 1306437995 449799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the "no immediately obvious applications" front, there was a rather nice talk about parametrizing "audio textures" (natural-ish sounds like rain, wind, fire, applause, etc., that are in some sense stationary), and then synthesizing "equivalent" new sounds. It did sound quite nice. < 1306438022 188917 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1306438028 762674 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :please link me up to the relevant paper and demos < 1306438036 729930 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm 100% interested in this < 1306438038 91328 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had invented a soundtrack classification application for it, but it really didn't work all that well, and the whole task felt quite forced. < 1306438094 940075 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The synthesis paper is "Sound texture synthesis via filter statistics", Proc IEEE WASPAA, 2009. Googling for the title finds the paper, and also a project that cites it. < 1306438106 944681 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.cornell.edu/projects/sound/fire/ < 1306438115 566936 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Coming soon: source code for .. audio texture synthesis". < 1306438129 379573 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resynthesizer... for SOUND. < 1306438131 562072 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be cool. < 1306438151 816846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might use the same thing; the paper for the fire thing is 11M so I haven't bothered to load it over this slow net. < 1306438167 26478 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least they cite the texture-synthesis page. < 1306438177 196650 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if you try and stretch out a terrible pop song. < 1306438181 888204 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I produce the next big hit in this manner. < 1306438211 410430 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about synthesizing fire sounds that are synchronized with a physical fire simulation video thing. < 1306438234 656048 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where are the demos? < 1306438244 535520 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess they know about filtering content in China. <-- i briefly had the approximate thought process here: "hm, they're wanting to censor _both_ violence _and_ sex? hm that fits neither with americans nor europeans. oh right, chinese." < 1306438261 181783 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The link has some videos of the fire thing. < 1306438270 186008 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1306438277 141134 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other demos that you have heard? < 1306438280 571764 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306438280 740814 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the US censored violence, our culture might... < 1306438285 577583 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be less screwed up. < 1306438291 301431 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1306438301 126386 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, on the front of sound resynthesis i think hartmann neuron is very interesting. < 1306438316 86899 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, Ted Kaczynski has some interesting views on that. < 1306438325 247911 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you actually just say that < 1306438325 958906 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahaha < 1306438339 7593 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The talk contained examples of rain, fire, applause, stream, bubbles, insects and wind; but I don't know where (or if) those would be in the interwebs. < 1306438352 898082 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, say what? < 1306438353 588248 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1306438360 835698 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: i was talking to cheater__. you may have him on ignore. < 1306438391 515902 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am mentally filtering him out. Does that count? < 1306438395 135015 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ICASSP didn't do the "include multimedia files in your submission" system, so the proceedings memory stick just has the papers. < 1306438398 616091 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, no. < 1306438399 167683 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Yes. < 1306438399 830048 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hey it was a pretty funny comment i say < 1306438422 857809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK my breath is fogging up. < 1306438427 757956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In late May. < 1306438429 407893 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ha ha Scotland. < 1306438430 614253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indoors. < 1306438433 501249 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /msg < 1306438649 29299 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was the talk for the paper you told me to google or for something else? < 1306438701 381305 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: It was for a newer paper, but that was just taking the same parametrization they used for synthesis and applying that for soundtrack classification, possibly not as interesting. < 1306438711 36031 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: But I did find the texture synthesis sound samples: http://www.cns.nyu.edu/~jhm/texture_examples/ < 1306438727 704607 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :splendid! thanks < 1306438770 528922 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1306438878 838938 :CakeProphet!~adam@h75.36.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306438878 920859 :CakeProphet!~adam@h75.36.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1306438878 921011 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306439080 794253 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-216.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306439088 754536 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-232-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306439199 115682 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just downloaded the demos, listening now.. < 1306439272 367665 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:00:45 Lymia: Yes, but no browser complains on unexpected certificate changes. < 1306439287 556995 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although putty does < 1306439307 241403 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: SSH clients in general; I mention SSH host key checking later on. < 1306439359 987126 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one person who refuses to SSH into systems without first acquiring the host key through some trustworthy means; everyone else seems to just trust their luck on the first connection attempt. < 1306439418 414190 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306439486 641792 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the configuration, OpenSSH may be obstinate enough to completely refuse to connect until you manually edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts and remove the offending key. < 1306439567 443291 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I know one person who refuses to SSH into systems without first acquiring the host key through some trustworthy means; everyone else seems to just trust their luck on the first connection attempt. < 1306439568 964447 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know vorpal too < 1306439572 541925 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1306439576 118318 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh; then I know two. < 1306439620 164959 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote And if they wanted to go for "true" security, they'd just do "Warning: your computer has not been turned into a plasma. This may cause some of your personal data to be stolen. Click here to turn your computer into a ball of incandescent gas, a gigantic nuclear furnace." < 1306439621 809043 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what are the marginals? < 1306439623 841430 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​429) And if they wanted to go for "true" security, they'd just do "Warning: your computer has not been turned into a plasma. This may cause some of your personal data to be stolen. Click here to turn your computer into a ball of incandescent gas, a gigantic nuclear furnace." < 1306439660 813678 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]miasma of incandescent plasma < 1306439727 853465 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1306439792 231712 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: The parameters they use are based on a cochlea-simulating filterbank; the "marginals" (IIRC) were simple time-average statistics (mean, variance, kurtosis) over the marginal distributions (in practice, histograms) of the amplitudes of each filterbank signal. < 1306439867 215146 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306439869 619005 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "full set" included something like cross-correlations between low-pass envelopes of those signals. < 1306439915 284392 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he had some statistics where they just used the spectrum (well, spectrogram) to synthesize things, purely to show that the spectral shape is not enough to capture the texture. < 1306439922 377596 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/statistics/samples/ < 1306439930 958150 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "spectrum" examples might be those. < 1306439978 685163 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't listened to the ones on the page, the multimedia didn't work out right (it never does) and then I lost interest before actually downloading them. < 1306440007 240853 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are statistics "over marginal distributions"? < 1306440056 780002 :CakeProphet!~adam@h104.2.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306440056 861659 :CakeProphet!~adam@h104.2.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1306440056 861802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306440080 630310 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"amplitudes of each filterbank signal" - do you mean "amplitudes of each filterbank band"? < 1306440092 117798 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Output signal. < 1306440151 791373 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306440172 97528 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are these "marginal distributions"? < 1306440223 466352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I know one person who refuses to SSH into systems without first acquiring the host key through some trustworthy means; everyone else seems to just trust their luck on the first connection attempt. <-- I can't fathom why most people don't bother with it < 1306440256 353544 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow I was even joking. < 1306440300 727166 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater__: In this case I'd say it refers to just taking the amplitude histogram of the signal. I mean, that's a bit like a marginal distribution p(amplitude) if you consider the sample as the joint distribution p(time, amplitude). < 1306440311 927211 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, i just did this to download: 1. wget the index file 2. do this: cat texture_examples3.html | sed -e "s/.*\"\(.*wav\)\".*/\1/" | grep wav | while read i; do wget "http://www.cns.nyu.edu/~jhm/texture_examples/$i" & done < 1306440323 743767 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet this sed/grep could be optimized but i suck at sed. < 1306440326 915975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait, you were joking that I would verify host key? Of course I do! < 1306440342 557413 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if wget has a "fetch embeds" recursion mode. < 1306440361 162284 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what are marginal and joint distributions? < 1306440364 705023 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This shit up: you can't make it. < 1306440402 406341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, however, when trusted channel for it is hard to come by I might settle for some other sort of independent channel to verify it by. < 1306440433 33395 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh it combines those. i guess also the binary thing is a bit of a tarpitisation. < 1306440436 509270 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, such as /dev/urandom ? < 1306440437 528748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this means I will accept verifying it in a discussion over IRC, though I'd prefer a more secure mean. < 1306440442 20401 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :P'' isn't necessarily binary < 1306440451 25557 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this shit up. < 1306440454 989735 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make it. < 1306440456 394232 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can't. < 1306440468 738557 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i thought initially < 1306440470 194283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wget can fetch embedded images in html yes < 1306440492 780667 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why would it combine the two commands < 1306440500 50040 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he meant media mentioned in tags. < 1306440501 425558 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if it were binary, why would it combine them :\ < 1306440504 51044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Depending on the configuration, OpenSSH may be obstinate enough to completely refuse to connect until you manually edit ~/.ssh/known_hosts and remove the offending key. <-- that is the default config afaik < 1306440522 266317 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that's what i've found it to be < 1306440543 773524 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit annoying for some hosts. < 1306440559 501737 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Could be. I do know that HashKnownHosts officially defaults (or at least did) to 'no', but some distributions make it 'yes'. < 1306440575 53841 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the prize for implementing the interpreter and Pong game? —ehird 19:58, 24 May 2011 (UTC) < 1306440575 207482 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ubuntu does < 1306440575 384003 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, no finally defined, but I think it will be free (ad-free) webspace. --80.139.110.66 19:52, 26 May 2011 (UTC) < 1306440576 901932 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaahahahahaa < 1306440586 465151 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here I was thinking it'd be something of value < 1306440597 792289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually I think that depends on which sort of match it is. If it is a non-perfect match it will allow you to go on. As in, the host is not found in the config, but the ip of that host is found in it, with a different key < 1306440603 296425 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could store the complete knowledge of humanity on said webspace < 1306440617 967751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the host name is found with a different key, it won't allow you to continue < 1306440619 740039 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306440622 90720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc something like that < 1306440622 364048 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-216.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306440654 820101 :Lymia!~moe@123.120.134.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1306440654 902110 :Lymia!~moe@123.120.134.215 QUIT :Changing host < 1306440654 902284 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1306440669 109616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for HashKnownHosts that is somewhat different from the question of allowing connection on host key mismatch < 1306440672 233375 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to win $300, there's a logo contest on some new IEEE Signal Processing Society conference they advertised at the start of the day today. (Though I don't think they're going to accept anything too... esoteric, or #esoteric.) < 1306440681 803210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :HashKnownHosts simply hashes the host part in the config < 1306440696 453026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so someone can't check ~/.ssh/known_hosts to find out all systems you have access to < 1306440697 534861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of sane person distributes an animation as a GIF? < 1306440705 11105 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hussie? < 1306440707 784973 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A large, detailed one, at least. < 1306440716 322761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about stuff like http://jila.colorado.edu/~ajsh/insidebh/engulf_640x480.gif < 1306440721 539392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, uh, that is quite common on wikipedia, though for short ones. Like showing how a motor works < 1306440733 550525 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would take far, far less time to load if you just stuck it on YouTube. < 1306440763 855973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that image doesn't take long to load. Just about 3 seconds < 1306440776 153960 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish browsers would delay showing animated GIFs until they load completely. < 1306440776 235918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warning: If you fall into a black hole, you will die. You will not go through a wormhole to another time and place." < 1306440780 347449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best warning. < 1306440787 865418 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i assume P'' was meant to be minimalized. i also read that the author later defined and used combined commands that were identical to the brainfuck ones < 1306440808 296874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, good idea < 1306440808 651776 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought P'' was meant to prove you can have loops < 1306440819 373046 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why show you can have structured computation and then fucking obfuscate it < 1306440819 920079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306440826 306431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, or at least until there was a buffer loaded < 1306440846 806683 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/can have/only need to have/ < 1306440867 148949 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ieee-espa.org/LogoContest.asp < 1306440901 433370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here are the conference parameters:" < 1306440905 2504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice way to put it < 1306440919 626904 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They certainly emphasized the "for practicing engineers" part. < 1306440928 98521 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're doing talks without papers and all. < 1306440932 454353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also Industry with capital I < 1306440937 580068 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's been co-located with CES. < 1306440937 850912 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy shit < 1306440942 524266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, CES? < 1306440948 169098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consumer Electronics Show. < 1306440950 777486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some-such. < 1306440952 63775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306441016 731418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :practical assholes < 1306441025 728541 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a Microsoft Research guy doing today's plenary talk; quite a lot of Kinect advertisement included. < 1306441035 233660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're releasing their own non-commercial SDK for it soon. < 1306441054 54126 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :He mentioned that the open-source driver lacks the funky microphone array DSP stuff they have. < 1306441062 95857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the point? Others already done all the job < 1306441065 175111 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do people use it for perverted purposes? < 1306441079 735183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, eh? < 1306441085 284099 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well the obfuscation isn't on the loop commands < 1306441090 278129 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bets are open. < 1306441104 578929 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, there was one point right there. < 1306441120 695951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: Surely it has already happened. < 1306441123 461151 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, how long until people start using the Kinect for less than work safe purposes. < 1306441124 673492 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also as I understood it it lacked something else too than just the mic-array stuff. < 1306441125 447432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah I wrote it before you entered your line. Had quite a lag spike there. Weird. < 1306441146 345874 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: http://kinecthacks.net/kinect-sex/ + < 1306441151 316470 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\+/?/ < 1306441156 169864 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1306441158 840592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, are you invoking rule 34 on it? < 1306441176 192241 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brainfuck: based on breakthrough research in structured programming" < 1306441179 580545 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1306441192 470265 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking how long until somebody does perverted things wiht it. < 1306441194 505403 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306441194 620525 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :with* < 1306441205 821940 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft's also pushing out some sort of "Kinect Avatar" that does the whole virtual-reality chat stuff with facial expression and gesture tracking. < 1306441215 628848 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you're saying that as if they haven't already < 1306441221 209084 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, right. < 1306441245 179101 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Lymia: http://kinecthacks.net/kinect-sex/ + < 1306441250 118537 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worryingly quick response :P < 1306441253 598197 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also for the record: there was quite a lot of content in the talk that wasn't advertising their own stuff.) < 1306441279 187078 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It was right there in the google quick-linkery thing when I googled for "kinecthacks" -- couldn't remember the tld. < 1306441279 834169 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But well, NF is NOT a programming-language. It is an esoteric language which extends BF." < 1306441282 960742 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is an idiot < 1306441298 575339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you should know that fizzie is good at finding stuff of all sorts. Everything from log graphing to finding weird things on google quickly < 1306441304 781959 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: suuure < 1306441305 197888 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. < 1306441308 981617 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hifive < 1306441311 72639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1306441311 917474 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1306441313 110292 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1306441314 157094 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asterisk < 1306441316 127210 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1306441358 445161 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well that fit with Vorpal too < 1306441380 942347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All in all, NF is just a notation of a finite state machine," < 1306441388 424827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, err why did you change your hifive to target fizzie? < 1306441400 161658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does not work with my definition of FSM. < 1306441410 767879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, does it have a bounded tape? < 1306441414 361846 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i changed the suure < 1306441425 534670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh okay < 1306441430 589604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it wasn't terribly clear < 1306441434 187106 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : "brainfuck: based on breakthrough research in structured programming" < 1306441443 579621 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cool i wanna touch virtual boobs < 1306441447 317059 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should write a fake advertisement for that. < 1306441467 216890 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you rarely get to put your hands completely inside a boob so that's even better? < 1306441492 804920 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The guy(tm) said it'll still be quite a while before haptics really take off, that it's the least understood area basically. So it'll be a while before the boob will touch you back. < 1306441534 340554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I bet if you asked fizzie about almost any googlable topic he would be able to find something about it very quickly. He might however not be interested in doing that I guess. < 1306441535 645508 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [...] So it'll be a while before the boob will touch you back. < 1306441537 298443 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​430) [...] So it'll be a while before the boob will touch you back. < 1306441545 665986 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hey i was just about to! < 1306441546 711532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, come on. That was evil. < 1306441548 387485 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: please find me some information on whole-hand boob immersion < 1306441550 699175 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1306441568 714603 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just beat me because you didn't include the whole quote < 1306441571 396052 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe i'll just buy a sex doll < 1306441578 677315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what haptics? Does kinect have that?! < 1306441593 43896 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, that's why it'll be a while. < 1306441618 70800 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the smell thing, it lacks that too. < 1306441622 935505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah. You said "least understood area" I thought you meant "least understood area of the kinect hardware" (from the point of view of open source drivers) < 1306441648 937317 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh; no, it was in the sense of "least understood area of immersive(tm) communications(buzzword)". < 1306441691 490087 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The repetition of "immersive" was almost as bad as some other people are with "ubiquitous".) < 1306441710 727665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306441719 670628 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well immersing in immersive ubiquity is ubiquitous < 1306441868 642682 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :He did tell an amusing anecdote about attending some VRML conference (way back when that was relevant) at Stanford, where they had VRMLized the whole university; and when the guy demonstrating the thing navigated to the meeting room door, the speaker said he got a sudden feeling of dread that the (physical) door's going to open and a some sort of a huge eyeball is going to peek in, with all the people in the meeting room peering out from behind it. < 1306441946 900318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh :P < 1306442013 753378 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual reality ...? < 1306442026 615737 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody ping Sg_o < 1306442074 112288 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./esotope -f text -t minus -v < 1306442074 598325 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found a path with 5 processors (weight=45): stream --(10)--> text --(10)--> brainfuck --(5)--> spoon --(10)--> minus --(10)--> buffer < 1306442077 675793 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1306442082 509563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to ping him just to annoy you but then I looked at the context and realised the dire consequences that would have. < 1306442092 104708 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: You frighten me. < 1306442098 518186 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you should get a doctor to look at your right eye < 1306442099 48406 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, i would love to see an application of this resynthesis paper to data provided with BSS < 1306442109 719207 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ugh, really? < 1306442145 232763 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Cause that's that's clever and frightening, simultaneously. < 1306442154 159781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jila.colorado.edu/~ajsh/insidebh/realistic.html < 1306442155 24867 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway now it is capable for parsing Text code (yes, a plain text) and translating it into Brainfuck, Spoon and finally Minus < 1306442180 338499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mind is rarely blown, but that has blown it. < 1306442190 655880 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :Philippa_ < 1306442191 780795 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minus does not directly implement a Brainfuck transformer since Spoon is a superset of it (with an additional exit command). < 1306442195 165734 :Philippa_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1306442204 18894 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is just fine in esotope. yeah. < 1306442230 454528 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now gotta have some sleep.. < 1306442267 290278 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind being blown: ......... < 1306442271 892342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ ./esotope -f text -t minus -v <-- eh, what does that -f and -t mean? < 1306442282 804451 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"from" and "to". < 1306442299 174068 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, from and to. < 1306442301 710049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean this is an automatic tool to find chains of esolang interpreters? < 1306442304 145747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what? < 1306442304 575840 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-v for verbose, obviously. < 1306442320 681114 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it is a unified architecture to support such thing < 1306442334 585547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, heh. Does it try to find the shortest or the longest one? < 1306442350 998069 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everything has to be reimplemented (d'oh!) but once done it is quite powerful < 1306442357 184641 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shortest. < 1306442378 895823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, what if you want to find the longest one without cycles? < 1306442386 854403 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the longest path would be infinite (due to cycles) < 1306442387 578400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quite tricky I imagine) < 1306442392 914091 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1306442396 979394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, longest one without cycles I meant < 1306442403 839122 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that seems interesting, but for now no. < 1306442413 995200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306442462 201489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306442466 459368 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also plan to add some optimization flag, so every processor has two kinds of weights; the complexity weight and optimization weight. < 1306442515 803844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, heh < 1306442543 648033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, so you don't look for shortest path in number of languages you pass through, but best path? < 1306442547 254720 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the driver will find the path with the minimal sum of complexity AND the maximal sum of optimization (which can be bounded by the option) < 1306442563 491716 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, yes. i'm still figuring out the details. < 1306442605 184012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, presumably it would be useful to have an option that goes for fewest number of languages as well < 1306442606 553358 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have lots of languages to implement (i think 20 is enough for architectural testing though). < 1306442620 63486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, what language is esotope in? < 1306442639 105537 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not always, since some transformation is trivial (e.g. Ook and BF) < 1306442641 604113 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ocaml. < 1306442647 988034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, and couldn't it call out to external interpreters possibly? < 1306442676 500142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, why ocaml? < 1306442680 346692 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, but definitely in the plan. < 1306442708 130683 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the prime reason is that i wanted to learn Ocaml in a hard way... < 1306442713 294856 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. trial and error) < 1306442737 483890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, is there any other way? < 1306442739 370882 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other reasons include i can mix the imperative and functional programming styles < 1306442754 444058 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though many told me that Haskell will do ;) < 1306442757 489269 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's compilers < 1306442758 764424 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not interpreters < 1306442765 297105 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whiiich is not a major consideration of language choice. < 1306442773 280307 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh shut up he can use whatever language he likes < 1306442776 4297 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as long as it's haskell) < 1306442780 283981 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1306442786 225410 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can do imperative and functional programming styles in just about any language younger than 50. < 1306442794 486971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hey, you let me write gravity.lisp in CL. < 1306442796 79794 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some more sanely than others) < 1306442808 996713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, ah compilers only? So you won't ever be able to do befunge98 then, unless you "compile" to a bundled interpreter < 1306442827 343966 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it includes both the interpreter and compiler (i.e. transformer). < 1306442838 662256 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-247-254.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1306442847 164580 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is simply a transformer that gives nothing (or, in Haskell, IO ()). < 1306442876 160378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306442956 923254 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some time later, esotope will have (for example) brainfuck-optimized kind which represents an optimized Brainfuck code, which can be used to generate an efficient C code (as the current esotope-bfc does)ff < 1306442973 889239 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for now i'm going to keep implementing important languages < 1306442981 435843 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the transformers for them < 1306443058 882593 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm compiling from a language which has a self-interpreter gives an interpreter automatically < 1306443141 394147 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if B has an interpreter for A, and you compile B to C, then you get an interpreter for A in C < 1306443173 137954 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why i didn't implemented an interpreter for Ook!. < 1306443177 473153 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement* < 1306443179 229915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about a self-compiler, err wait that would be damn useless. never mind < 1306443194 199681 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :D < 1306443237 55644 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically for interpreters there are up to two languages involved, while for compilers there are three < 1306443237 569333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the only case where a self-compiler could be useful would be if it was optimising. Like say one for bf that turned ++- into + < 1306443256 123290 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306443326 980646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm *tries to imagine some way to run programs that involve more than three languages* < 1306443435 418047 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well when bootstrapping a language compiler, you might write the compiler for B in A, compiling into C (the last one literally) < 1306443461 293759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is three so far < 1306443463 189744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no D < 1306443471 343940 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you said _more_ than three < 1306443476 243534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306443483 450123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no success so far < 1306443511 251867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, three is easy. Just imagine a bf->C compiler written in something else than bf or C < 1306443511 721272 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously there are cases where one stage contains more than one language, but that may not count... < 1306443520 259360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm... < 1306443538 649246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you mean like the language that is mostly not Murphy? < 1306443539 40125 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like web stuff, you have both client and server languages < 1306443546 488834 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what is that < 1306443553 661932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the first part of it < 1306443557 958521 :comex_!~comex@comex.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306443559 196223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that cpressy made < 1306443563 408956 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1306443570 605364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ozzlybob or something iirc? < 1306443574 817254 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306443592 943893 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is another pair of esolangs, one of which is Portia < 1306443598 653712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well it said that most parts of the language was the thing on O, the rest of it was however Murphy :P < 1306443611 746845 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1306443646 241494 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it's not called Oolzybub is called Murphy < 1306443646 361550 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :portia is supposed to go with 2iota right? < 1306443648 147456 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise < 1306443652 464968 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or beta-juliet < 1306443658 115614 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Beta-Juliet_and_Portia < 1306443659 469755 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :once of those car languages < 1306443681 254697 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Oozlybub_and_Murphy < 1306443688 870013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1306443694 325559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it says preprocessor < 1306443702 860218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't preprocessor another compiling step < 1306443730 951121 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah that's why i'm asking if splitting stages counts < 1306443758 883411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, like CPP takes C source from C to C-preprocessed which a C compiler (as it is confusingly named, should be called a C-preprocessed-compiler!) then compiles to asm, which the assembler then compiles to an object file. And lets not discuss the linker. < 1306443759 12350 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although web stuff with client/server split feels more relevant < 1306443766 32853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes kind of < 1306443799 113000 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what about that supercompilation stuff i've sometimes seen mentioned here < 1306443815 138053 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that may be mainly one language applying to itself < 1306443838 596303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, isn't supercompilation simply a way to optimize by brute forcing ways to compile an expression to < 1306443854 346363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like testing all ways you could possibly zero out a register to find the shortest one or whatever < 1306443860 659929 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1306443876 936582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I heard supercompilation used to describe that however. Hm < 1306443882 753289 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall anything about "brute forcing", i'm unclear about it but i thought it was related to partial evaluation < 1306443897 660740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is super-compilation then < 1306443924 856766 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specialisation. < 1306443925 221009 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think elliott_ may be who mentioned it previously < 1306443947 195261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, hm that is still three languages at most right? < 1306443953 398317 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1306443959 301708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306443976 68047 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in compilation, you have three languages involved in a single stage < 1306444003 719899 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which cannot be logically split up without some part having the same property, i think < 1306444015 616875 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1306444123 679055 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A compiles B to C, then you can split it by compiling the compiler from A to C first, then running the resulting C program to compile from B to C < 1306444194 932379 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not quite clear that there are intrinsically units involving more that 2 languages < 1306444209 267109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you could do that, but then you need a new compiler that compiles from A to C. Involving an extra software < 1306444242 124335 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1306444246 502261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you mention hand compilation I would argue that counts as a "software" in this context < 1306444335 818583 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit neat to think that the entire compiler/interpreter infrastructure we have today all builds necessarily on an ancient, forgotten layer of hand compilation < 1306444355 794516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe someone still does it occasionally for fun < 1306444370 458274 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for efficiency < 1306444470 135875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I would say it is a form of hand compilation when turning pseudo-code into < 1306444478 241112 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hand bootstrapping doesn't need to be done particularly efficiently either. like that inefficient "unregistered C" target for ghc, which is just to get an initial port < 1306444507 606348 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why do you need unregistered C for ghc at all. Why not simply cross compile full blown ghc < 1306444508 995178 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hm yeah. and on the other side even assembly is not machine code < 1306444528 313086 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh. current ghc does not support cross compilation. < 1306444538 676653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, people started out writing machine code before they invented asm < 1306444541 964984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah why < 1306444573 515111 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new upcoming code generator is supposed to though (i saw something to the effect that it always essentially cross compiles) < 1306444611 827051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm, you could say that when turning your idea of what you want to do into code in any programming language, you are hand-compiling your thoughts to said language. < 1306444633 858312 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: although it might still be nice to have easy port version to be able to get things started before you have a full implementation of all the target architecture's quirks < 1306444640 813605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what new upcomming code generator? < 1306444642 659485 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*easily ported < 1306444662 331979 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well i've seen it mentioned, they're completely rewriting that part < 1306444669 584492 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in ghc) < 1306444694 955121 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the old one was getting so full of cruft that they had trouble adding new things to it < 1306444791 373776 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Compiler/NewCodeGen < 1306444813 862199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, neat. I had a pencil lying on a shelf. (Yes my desk and the nearby area is quite messy.) I bumped the desk with my foot by mistake. This caused the pen to fall off. It landed right way up in the pencil jar (is that the right English word?) right below. < 1306444829 220064 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306444850 843818 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that "new" code gen has been the "current" code gen for a while now < 1306444853 290635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm the unregistered C one uses the evil mangler? Or is that some other one? < 1306444870 15472 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306444876 71114 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, see the current status report section < 1306444924 928476 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: meh! < 1306444927 693178 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the evil mangler is used by the _registered_ C backend < 1306444933 293443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh < 1306444945 387693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why the name "(un)registered"? < 1306444953 215194 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unregistered avoids those tricks to be completely portable, at the cost of efficiency < 1306444973 237430 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not attempt to control which machine registers are used for things < 1306444980 321870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how does the unregistered one do gc? < 1306445004 225963 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :simpler, i assume? < 1306445006 368661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, does it allocate a large array to use as backend for gced stuff? < 1306445012 350106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that is really the only portable way < 1306445015 614370 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know such details :) < 1306445061 851363 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't know _how_ portable it is < 1306445079 107337 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it doesn't depend on that many deep gcc specialties < 1306445155 742620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306445214 999422 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1306445219 287272 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and architecture dependent details < 1306445315 51030 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fvia-c is deprecated < 1306445316 7770 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way < 1306445321 186441 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. registered C builds < 1306445323 794198 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the mangler is deprecated too < 1306445339 226071 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueBottle works just fine in VMware Player :/ < 1306445350 55166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but the mangler is fun. Since it is evil. < 1306445510 58918 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil mangler? < 1306445520 779963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306445561 417244 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In this respect, the A2 System GUI surpasses many existing windowing implementations. Windows can moved, rescaled etc. while the programs "behind" the windows kep running." < 1306445564 851668 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sounds old < 1306445579 980052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh seems it is completely gone < 1306445586 712192 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: it's a perl script which ghc -fvia-c runs on the assembly produced by gcc, mangling it < 1306445593 622798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, check this historical version of the page for more info http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/EvilMangler?version=2 < 1306445594 540658 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's also the Satanic Splitter < 1306445597 419263 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which does? < 1306445637 341005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh? link? < 1306445696 372840 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember *exactly* what it does, but something like splitting assembly sources into several files to allow the linker to make smaller programs < 1306445707 355786 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil mangler, eh? < 1306445718 213288 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that evil! < 1306445723 914616 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i think it also ensures proper tail calls < 1306445792 900594 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be bothered doing more than googling, but there is this: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/glasgow-haskell-users/2005-February/008006.html < 1306445866 524762 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i don't think the mangler is what splits object files, at least that isn't its main purpose, see that link by Vorpal < 1306445881 503458 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the satanic splitter, not the evil mangler < 1306445909 47353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, confirmed: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Porting#Thesplitter < 1306445921 206477 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh right < 1306445930 389641 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GHC no longer has an evil mangler." < 1306445940 409729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I said that < 1306445958 519366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the splitter is still there: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/browser/driver/split/ghc-split.lprl < 1306445979 961192 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm having trouble getting all the irc conversation _and_ checking out your links at the same time :P < 1306445984 837523 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's because the registered C backend is deprecated :P < 1306446009 323707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you are too slow < 1306446015 189029 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1306446029 582993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, overclock yourself (first ensure proper cooling) < 1306446053 732766 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately overclocking has severe side effects on me. < 1306446065 612705 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the Oerjan Enhanced Speedstep Technology has kicked in already < 1306446132 628919 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yeah but i didn't know it was deprecated to the point they had stopped keeping it working efficiently... < 1306446151 659866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the evil mangler file is gone even < 1306446157 815609 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They started doing that because the LLVM backend performs better in all cases, IIRC. < 1306446159 950372 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures < 1306446163 788717 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ah. < 1306446168 298402 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1306446215 58053 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think NFA = FNFA with any amount of dimensions < 1306446234 90722 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1306446257 385873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've spent hundreds of hours trying to solve that, so yes :P < 1306446294 794825 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a proper counterexample would of course have been good too < 1306446306 93074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Compiler/Backends/LLVM/WIP : what *is* this elsusive STG register in haskell? < 1306446309 603824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone knows? < 1306446312 609304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at elliott_  < 1306446324 516428 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1306446328 446894 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although it didn't take me long to convince myself 100% that they are equal in n-D < 1306446330 859917 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stg is for spineless tagless g-machine < 1306446339 659708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err, what < 1306446345 593989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, joke right? < 1306446363 272146 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language like Haskell cannot exist without nasty dirty hack under it's skin. < 1306446364 852655 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, this means i probably cannot sleep tonight. < 1306446374 749152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or did what you say actually mean something? < 1306446377 869813 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. well it may contain a pun, but it's the intermediate representation stage between core and c-- < 1306446398 619044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, so what is the STG register for, and why is it pinned to a machine register < 1306446409 206766 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: why not < 1306446414 584815 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq is dirty-hack free :P < 1306446422 242308 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1306446439 294097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait a second. coq is written in ocaml. ocaml is not dirty-hack free < 1306446446 330150 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if my solution is correct, this is bigger than P != NP for the picture-walking automata people! (that is, me and maybe that one japanese guy although he's probably dead already.) < 1306446456 120244 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i think there is more than one, it's the registers that result from something in the stg representation i assume < 1306446468 250313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm < 1306446479 795183 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the stg running model presumably requires them to be at a known place < 1306446494 140309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory on stg is too vague < 1306446515 188430 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that representation is old i think, perhaps from the 80s < 1306446523 188571 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ghc has modified it < 1306446564 49757 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they added tags back to pointers at one stage for efficiency, iirc) < 1306446583 533058 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it may not actually fit its name any longer :D < 1306446610 879422 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(argh, i knew i'd find a problem with the solution the second i announce it) < 1306446641 14303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ah yes. a known problem. < 1306446697 837249 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is it big < 1306446700 243853 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually when that happened for the 2-D problem, i managed to solve the problem the same day anyway. so i still have hope. < 1306446738 446535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not at all big. the 2d question was left open in at least 2 articles and a book, but the n-dimensional case has only been asked by me. < 1306446741 856192 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: happened to me with that wrong >= 2d proof for topological measures i mentioned yesterday. < 1306446751 91502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you solved it? < 1306446763 572187 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you mean you announced it before realizing < 1306446769 379751 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it fell through when i was explaining it on the blackboard < 1306446775 917125 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1306446797 205270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1306446802 327539 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictly speaking i had already announced it, sort of (i SMS'ed "Eureka" to my collaborator) < 1306446871 891876 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nerd :D < 1306446878 126045 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose "dork" is more appropriate < 1306446887 296958 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you wouldn't understand < 1306446921 833852 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I meant the "Eureka" < 1306446934 82386 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right < 1306446934 846341 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1306446938 49256 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "spineless" iirc is for how that representation did away with having an internal representation of the reduction graph for functional languages, using stack arguments instead. < 1306446948 634350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306446976 444462 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh if the solution doesn't work, then i now have three proofs for the 2d case but none for the general case < 1306447044 625819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to think the most useless multiclassing in nwn. < 1306447046 728849 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one more than two. < 1306447069 378758 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tagless" iirc is for how it used return destination to branch directly to the code that wanted the result, instead of allocating constructors that might never be used since the destination might just pick them apart < 1306447071 124994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly multiclassing sorcerer and wizard? That one must come close at least < 1306447122 714725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah nice < 1306447140 327974 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is this like optimising a tuple into an unboxed tuple? < 1306447166 40952 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, except it works for data types with more than one constructor, such as Just x vs. Nothing < 1306447184 316893 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it also works < 1306447191 167319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh, nifty. But this would only work within a single module surely? < 1306447195 201924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not across modules < 1306447234 345375 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the return address would be in a known spot on the stack or in a table pointed to from the stack, i think < 1306447265 344189 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making that work across modules _might_ be a reason for pinning those registers < 1306447272 826810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306447286 177073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is everything slow suddenly < 1306447303 63364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird, I'm swap trashing for no obvious reason < 1306447501 242375 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: nerd :D <-- ARE YOU CALLING ARCHIMEDES A NERD? < 1306447506 820390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ git clone http://darcs.haskell.org/ghc.git/ <-- wait what, 1) ghc went git!? 2) why call it darcs.haskell.org if it isn't darcs? < 1306447513 154927 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He was Greek :P < 1306447523 211132 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (one) Alas, yes. (I didn't realise they had finished transitioning though.) < 1306447528 190502 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (two) It's a separate server. < 1306447547 61167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No point in fiddling with DNS, since they still host a lot of darcs repos too. < 1306447553 144425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1306447566 485775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, sad, darcs was better than git < 1306447576 89113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: He was Greek :P < 1306447576 737022 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With foresight, it would have probably been named repo.haskell.org. :p < 1306447581 628169 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In fairness, GHC is huge, and darcs was quite slow for them. < 1306447582 793278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, indeed < 1306447586 592286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306447588 692863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, really? < 1306447592 147494 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i guess i didn't do it properly, i should have ran naked in the streets as well < 1306447592 349574 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the Greeks were the ultimate nerds. < 1306447594 670168 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Really what? < 1306447597 650279 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*run < 1306447600 382015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, really it being slow < 1306447604 672639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, this was definitely something you should have done. < 1306447605 204558 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They invented steam engines and just saw them as a cool toy. < 1306447607 875326 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classic nerd. < 1306447608 428380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, darcs never came across as slow to me < 1306447611 442938 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: darcs has known efficiency issues for large projects /shrug < 1306447616 109864 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs one was absolutely glacial. < 1306447618 728494 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs two is faster, buuut. < 1306447632 689375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, but what < 1306447663 407844 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, can't get fooled again". < 1306447687 478414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306447707 984676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, not all docs are updated to saying they use git however. Some still suggest darcs. < 1306447711 134784 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "I don't know why you're talking about Sweden. They're the neutral one. They don't have an army." < 1306447719 908776 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Found when Googling to make sure I had the Bush quote right; http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_W._Bush.) < 1306447748 746558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, our army is just an excuse for not having one really < 1306447767 835964 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you have a fairly good army, but just not use it for anything? :p < 1306447790 430442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, we used to have that. But budget cuts has been going on for well over 15 years now, so not much left. < 1306447808 728759 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-232-99.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1306447815 503605 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: mind you the ghc guys refused to change to Darcs 2 format (or something like that) because it didn't work with something they used to do, thus not using some of darcs's later improvements, i think. < 1306447822 926726 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, hey, at least you're cutting from the military. That's something America hasn't quite figured out how to do yet. < 1306447832 994708 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah < 1306447833 588728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, :D < 1306447847 31486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did it work with git however? < 1306447863 910028 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: presumably. < 1306447887 43860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it would be somewhat funny if it didn't < 1306447911 404497 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might mean that ghc chose git over darcs because they insisted on using git workflow... < 1306447922 313612 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(speculating here) < 1306447927 996450 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and always had < 1306447959 843525 :CakeProphet!~adam@h139.56.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306447959 926479 :CakeProphet!~adam@h139.56.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1306447959 926613 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306447996 2088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, rebase *shudder* < 1306448037 347928 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Don't you have a fairly good army, but just not use it for anything? :p <-- i vaguely think that sweden, unlike norway, having a pretty good army at the start of ww2 was how that managed to _stay_ neutral then < 1306448059 284700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Found when Googling to make sure I had the Bush quote right; http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_W._Bush.) <-- I glanced at that page and the stupidity ratio is utterly outstanding < 1306448079 738607 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*how they < 1306448083 715638 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-16.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306448087 26621 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-27.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306448121 458713 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Surely you've heard all the Bushisms by now. < 1306448129 994038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well... no we didn't have a good army at the start of ww2. However the politicians claimed we did and then did a mad rush to make it true. Meanwhile allowing the germans to transport troups through Sweden for the first few years of the war < 1306448138 688810 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: aha < 1306448161 625586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I know he is stupid yes. But I haven't heard all those quotes no. Quite a few yes. < 1306448196 72209 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just recently learned from wikipedia that britain invaded iceland shortly after germany invaded norway and denmark. the icelanders protested, but not overly much < 1306448205 443431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and we sold them iron ore too. Since they invaded you guys and thus controlled Narvik. < 1306448219 852540 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "En svensk tiger", eh? ;D < 1306448221 289243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, really? that is news to me < 1306448225 695601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh that yeah < 1306448241 121523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was that invented around then or after? < 1306448271 308168 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they then passed control of iceland over to us troops. this was _before_ the us formally joined the war. < 1306448294 691681 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um you should know, you're the swedish one. < 1306448311 140642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hey you are Norwegian and you told me you haven't seen Peer Gynt! < 1306448312 667358 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306448312 824339 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-202.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306448312 906283 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306448320 5856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, så kasta inte sten i glashus < 1306448329 618324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have no idea what that idiom would be in English) < 1306448349 468712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(literal translation would be "don't throw stones in houses made of glass") < 1306448366 815888 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same, basically. < 1306448368 486651 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" < 1306448374 870083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306448393 150691 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "the pot calling the kettle black" also fits the theme < 1306448418 32072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1306448428 304414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, aren't they basically the same? < 1306448438 532544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what is the difference in meaning between the two idioms < 1306448484 554016 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, rebase *shudder* <-- i am not entirely sure, but it may be close to the thing ghc insisted on using < 1306448504 317200 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1306448507 238622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, rebase is Modifying History. Which is Wrong. < 1306448522 105533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which means I hate the git workflow) < 1306448544 990700 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306448570 125629 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 9 2 < 1306448570 672756 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1306448577 240034 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 8 2 < 1306448577 783014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1306448579 80293 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1306448604 116895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, shouldn't you use where instead of let, iirc you told me so some time ago? ;P < 1306448615 898098 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um not in this context, no < 1306448630 597701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, okay, for the purposes of learning idiomatic style, why is that? < 1306448640 228973 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cannot use where on an expression alone < 1306448642 537737 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is ghci, it's hardly idiomatic < 1306448644 875648 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what oerjan said < 1306448645 177608 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x where x = 9 < 1306448645 782741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `where' < 1306448647 566993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right < 1306448652 298558 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, i wrote the function first ;) < 1306448654 231573 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um lambdabot isn't ghci < 1306448660 64193 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: close enough :) < 1306448664 892208 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same "workflow" < 1306448668 472968 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just vaguely similar to a few subcommands of ghci < 1306448680 279697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> :t thiswontwork < 1306448680 883091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `:' < 1306448683 565025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1306448687 199102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ghci < 1306448692 990697 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t thiswontwork < 1306448693 563736 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `thiswontwork' < 1306448704 663638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed. But > is not ghci < 1306448708 535497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my main point < 1306448711 863845 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1306448720 931530 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-58-47.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1306448721 13798 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-58-47.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1306448721 13929 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1306448739 646720 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Variable occurs more often in a constraint than in the instance head < 1306448739 861367 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in the constraint: Divisible n' d r < 1306448739 942433 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Use -XUndecidableInstances to permit this) < 1306448740 34524 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1306448754 313207 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to remember when to add > or @, and you still only get non-IO expressions, let, :t and :k < 1306448756 528922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, err, what does that mean < 1306448781 823498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is @ for in lambdabot? < 1306448790 830306 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let sub n 0 = n; sub n m = sub (n-1) (m-1) in sub 9 2 < 1306448791 456870 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1306448813 652866 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Sub a b r | a b -> r, a r -> b < 1306448813 830061 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Sub n Z n < 1306448813 911757 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Sub n m r) => Sub (S n) (S m) r < 1306448816 77847 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last instance fails :( < 1306448818 348475 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um your definition above fails on divs 1 1 < 1306448825 407071 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ugh does it < 1306448830 463875 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully i never use one < 1306448832 316837 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what mistake did i make < 1306448842 49540 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1306448844 682844 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1306448851 499171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 1 1 < 1306448852 51022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1306448854 475534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306448856 79495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1306448861 792194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 2 1 < 1306448862 457128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1306448865 154890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 1 2 < 1306448865 735838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1306448867 770850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1306448889 415962 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up, my main problem is this undecidable instance :) < 1306448891 74964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever order that is in, that is wrong (while 2 doesn't divide 1, 1 definitively divides 2) < 1306448907 53708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 8 8 < 1306448907 606501 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1306448911 119388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 2 2 < 1306448911 713143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1306448913 592966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1306448916 120921 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: more seriously, it fails on divs 8 3 < 1306448921 413384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 2 3 < 1306448924 983092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1306448928 625788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaaat < 1306448928 810025 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok ok ok but i need to fix this first < 1306448936 869188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 8 3 < 1306448940 455025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1306448940 813851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1306448942 973131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1306448954 307771 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> wat language is dis < 1306448954 930648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `wat'Not in scope: `language'Not in scope: `is'Not in scope: ... < 1306448956 926557 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1306448963 84842 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: same as your 2 3, actually. leaky recursion base. < 1306448967 951716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1306448983 894465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 8 5 < 1306448985 72246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Terminated < 1306448991 207210 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that one is new < 1306448993 471491 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wai < 1306448993 924440 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1306448996 117634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it different or same? < 1306448997 946066 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the add definition works < 1306448999 905144 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case < 1306449056 107702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, haskell < 1306449062 233276 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah wtf... < 1306449066 894045 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need undecidable instances to do this < 1306449223 445679 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i don't know why that claims it's got a greater context, maybe the functional dependencies are involved somehow? < 1306449238 402648 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1306449244 479965 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, undecidabled up the wazoo < 1306449256 371960 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to fix that divisible algo :D < 1306449260 448667 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, aren't they rewritten to type functions these days? < 1306449267 196155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does undecidable instances do? < 1306449277 695148 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1306449355 152236 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hm i recall seeing Terminated before, although i don't recall if there's a difference with that mueval-core thing < 1306449364 687494 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there are two different competing timeouts < 1306449432 541935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1306449448 964727 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am wondering, is having both a b -> r and a r -> b causing unbounded growth in itself < 1306449459 173699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it is repeatable: < 1306449462 928292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 8 3 < 1306449465 214263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Terminated < 1306449467 615123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let divs 1 _ = False; divs 0 _ = True; divs n d = divs (n-d) d in divs 8 3 < 1306449471 136844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1306449474 148550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nope < 1306449484 531971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, looks like two competing timeouts indeed < 1306449510 16559 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw the 2 1 thing is equivalent to my first comment on 1 1, he doesn't handle d = 1 < 1306449561 24600 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1306449568 187767 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i think the mueval-core thing is newer, they may have restructured lambdabot at some point < 1306449605 263008 :ntides!~tidal@S0106c84c75c3cea7.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306449622 716216 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got FizzBuzz C code down to 87 bytes now I should try for mathematical shortcuts, I think < 1306449625 281083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm don't you usually write x divides y as x | y, rather than y | x < 1306449628 467420 :ntides!~tidal@S0106c84c75c3cea7.vc.shawcable.net PART :#esoteric < 1306449632 152898 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: does it work if you remove a r -> b ? < 1306449637 131375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in which case elliott_ has the parameters backwards < 1306449649 540099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1306449649 540262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which means 8 `divs` 3 will be all backwards < 1306449660 74189 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1306449661 987081 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1306449666 756788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he left < 1306449672 184802 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's the same order as div and mod < 1306449680 862067 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which aren't predicates) < 1306449687 274722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes but | is usually written the other way around < 1306449720 870004 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1306449796 536242 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw on some periodic table of Perl6 that the % operator is "iffy" which means it can be ! (logical not), but when I tried using !% operator it didn't work but it did say to use %% instead, so I did, and it worked < 1306449804 876593 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "The famous poster for the propaganda campaign was created by Bertil Almqvist in 1941" < 1306449809 492125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"periodic table of Perl6"? < 1306449810 837332 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(en svensk tiger) < 1306449815 350887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1306449816 727746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1306449824 288910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I googled it several minutes ago < 1306449829 180452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes I found the Periodic Table of Perl6 Operators < 1306449844 56513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1306449863 114694 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Table is quite old; maybe it hasn't been kept current? < 1306449864 306720 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is categorized, similar to, but not quite like, the periodic table of elements. < 1306449890 544789 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe that is why it did that, then < 1306449930 629358 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although at first when I read that on the table, I immediately thought that making % to be "iffy" is a good idea, and that it had other good ideas too from what I could see on that table < 1306449939 446199 :CakeProphet!~adam@h104.40.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306449939 565082 :CakeProphet!~adam@h104.40.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1306449939 565219 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1306450839 882955 :h[a]gb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4140a.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306451890 916155 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1306452183 230633 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-27.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently non-Americans think root beer tastes like medicine. Personally, I wonder how they get good-tasting medicine. < 1306452226 214148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1306452233 894194 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1306452294 845325 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, EZ Tab Tylenol or whatever tastes great! < 1306452309 507920 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could have medicine flavoring without the medicine < 1306452331 528912 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-27.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are probably a freak. < 1306452353 595082 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't think I mean raw medicine < 1306452361 927918 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They add flavoring to medications I think < 1306452366 298816 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's what I like < 1306452371 568432 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I am a freak, so < 1306452372 356402 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-27.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are probably a freak. < 1306452390 87836 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some medicine, anyway < 1306452398 112264 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, the taste of Wellbutrin was horrible < 1306452412 982294 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I tended to chew it despite it not supposed to be chewed < 1306452446 340625 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1306452450 487304 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with Ritalin. Oh wait, I didn't chew Wellbutrin, the taste was _too_ horrible < 1306452451 911952 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plural logic has never made sense until now < 1306452462 619172 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i know its because noone knows how to explain it properly except boolos himself < 1306452514 40484 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dosn't this apply to a lot of things? < 1306452541 697628 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: yes < 1306452553 453053 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even basic mathematics.... < 1306452573 637058 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that starts making sense once you get into Algebra, etc. < 1306452636 924737 :variable!~variable@unaffiliated/variable PART #esoteric :"I found 1 in /dev/zero" < 1306453666 246410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shortened FizzBuzz C code to 63 < 1306453756 472747 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I didn't do that. I shorted "google" to 63 < 1306453923 282927 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FizzBuzz" is 86 < 1306454135 974084 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grats. < 1306454142 775945 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do it in Perl which you can actually golf worth shit. < 1306454383 132088 :CakeProphet!~adam@h177.62.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1306454383 252768 :CakeProphet!~adam@h177.62.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1306454383 252834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric