< 1307491202 370891 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp wc2 < 1307491202 612932 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter wc2 deleted. < 1307491225 933265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp wc2 perl $_=<>;chomp;s/^\W*([-]\w+\W+)*//;$opt=$1;print `echo "$_" | wc $opt` < 1307491226 228264 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter wc2 installed. < 1307491230 362585 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wc2 -c abc < 1307491230 966798 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​1 2 6 < 1307491235 527295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffff < 1307491241 13931 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah Iwas confusing \w and \W < 1307491253 882983 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :\w stands for "word character" not "whitespace" < 1307491292 383285 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp wc2 < 1307491292 613114 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter wc2 deleted. < 1307491371 157549 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapM (length <$>) [lines, words, id] "test\nho there" < 1307491372 193513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1307491372 399424 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1307491372 561767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im...robot < 1307491378 637413 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1307491390 201794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im...robot < 1307491391 169615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im...robot < 1307491392 83654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im...robot < 1307491392 323346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im...robot < 1307491392 569277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im...robot < 1307491396 670610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im...robot < 1307491398 668869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im...robot < 1307491406 449436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could this ircing get any better??? < 1307491427 729733 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1307491459 545629 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp wc2 perl $_=<>;chomp;s/^\s*((?:[-]\S+\s+)*)//;$opt=$1;print;print `echo "$_" | wc $opt` < 1307491459 821198 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter wc2 installed. < 1307491464 875641 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wc2 -c weorjsoidfjiuwehriuwheriuhweriuh < 1307491465 388937 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​weorjsoidfjiuwehriuwheriuhweriuh33 < 1307491478 416394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now I'm Leibniz. < 1307491487 846500 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with emulating wc as an IRC bot command < 1307491491 517025 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of calculus. < 1307491497 174548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp wc2 < 1307491497 397072 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter wc2 deleted. < 1307491520 417658 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp wc2 perl $_=<>;chomp;s/^\s*((?:[-]\S+\s+)*)//;$opt=$1;print `echo "$_" | wc $opt` < 1307491520 701962 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter wc2 installed. < 1307491523 964032 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. include-what-you-use may be the single greatest boon to porting something to work on musl. < 1307491541 637058 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl? < 1307491546 908325 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A simple libc. < 1307491603 244264 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapM (length.) [lines, words, (pure.)] "test\nho there" < 1307491604 693838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,13] < 1307491625 535197 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And include-what-you-use is a static analysis tool built with clang that does, well, what you think it does. < 1307491630 758786 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sh++ perl $_=<>;print `$_` < 1307491631 37954 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sh__ installed. < 1307491641 390668 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's an improved sh because it runs through perl... < 1307491679 276067 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend using it in the future. < 1307491872 501181 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307491895 354740 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, because there was totally an implied golfing contest, my code has few bytes with whitespace removed < 1307491903 581830 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fewer < 1307491927 753910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp wc2 < 1307491927 983007 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter wc2 deleted. < 1307491969 175703 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp wc2 perl $_=<>;chop;s/^\s*((?:[-]\S+\s+)*)//;print`echo "$_"|wc $1` < 1307491969 464833 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter wc2 installed. < 1307491978 702823 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ahem- and now even fewer. < 1307492441 130172 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm. I think that I might be able to get GNU coreutils to coöperate with me. Near as I can tell, the stupid bits of gnulib are actually just someone being overzealous. < 1307492453 800613 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, I may well be able to fix it via rm. < 1307492509 491236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why would you want gnu coreutils < 1307492601 399363 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering, mostly. < 1307492625 433201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be amused if the portability problems of GNU shit is because they just stuck too much stuff from gnulib in there. < 1307492812 336933 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much money do I make working at FSF? < 1307492821 767331 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1307492837 307652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stallman's foot clippings < 1307492927 741362 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why stallman is the butt of so many jokes. He's a pretty cool guy, doesn't afraid of anything. < 1307492946 611946 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1307492948 553983 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if 1 < 1307492953 524142 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :# include < 1307492953 686748 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1307492967 561717 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what won't work anywhere at all? < 1307492976 707719 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ... < 1307492987 318941 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwhut < 1307492993 97519 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, that header only exists on OS X 10.5. < 1307493000 575147 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: xlocale.h? < 1307493002 849881 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite common < 1307493020 184685 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* MacOS X 10.5 defines the locale_t type in . */ < 1307493024 168485 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's what they claim. < 1307493028 851879 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307493038 513687 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc does the same but they #include in < 1307493169 829036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION myndzi < 1307493170 713555 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elliott < 1307493232 535524 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: on an utterly pedantic note, I don't think you have to escape the ? if there's nothing in front of it. < 1307493364 847285 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would be an interesting extension if a ? at the beginning of the regex signified that the null string is acceptable or something. < 1307493403 879126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent to (?:...)? around the entire expression < 1307493468 950733 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-194-194.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1307493647 833609 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-194-194.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1307494340 73306 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what I would be doing with myself if I had never learned how to program. < 1307494351 845034 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-212.vpn.utu.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1307494376 230968 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably write a lot more. < 1307494405 92720 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would have become an English major or something awful like that. < 1307494466 693700 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: link me an interesting data structure that I haven't heard of. < 1307494578 536260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on yet another unrelated note, they should REALLY put something like fclabels into Haskell by default, and completely redo the record syntax. < 1307494617 540876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell records are pretty much the worst yeah < 1307494644 505840 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because as it currently stands there is no higher-order mechanism to re-set record fields cleanly. < 1307494662 593293 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without using fclabels, which uses template haskell I believe. < 1307494669 994424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also need some kind of type-directed name resolution. < 1307494671 415108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/TypeDirectedNameResolution < 1307494678 799590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you can derive the accessors manually if you want to avoid TH < 1307494700 374779 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :expand TH plz. < 1307494706 791015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1307494707 414886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1307494708 287924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1307494744 78208 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not so much that I want to avoid it, it's just that the fclabels syntax to declare something as a fclabel is somewhat ugly. < 1307494767 977477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can omit the $() in ghc 7 < 1307494776 427504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Point = Point { _x :: Integer, _y :: Integer } < 1307494780 183367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkLabels [''Point] < 1307494783 594460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not so bad. < 1307494831 300228 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: essentially this proposal is proposing a kind of overloading. Which I think is a good idea(tm) < 1307494841 934503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1307494847 473345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have overloading (typeclasses) < 1307494851 718737 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1307494852 703218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unstructured overloading is Dangerous) < 1307494870 618804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in fact just exactly what it says on the tin ... type-directed name resolution :P < 1307494999 542023 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to me the . lexeme seems somewhat unecessary. < 1307495075 558933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1307495078 656163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just overload the accessor name based on the type of the first argument (read: type directed name resolution) but skip the . syntax, which already has enough things that it represents. < 1307495184 604488 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1307495293 740068 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem would be that :t accessorName is now ambiguous, or would refer to only one while hiding all others. But, that proposal has that problem as well. < 1307496178 480630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1307496190 547294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's really ugly. and no, the proposal doesn't have the latter problem < 1307496195 201760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that most of the later sections are just /ideas/ < 1307496206 956200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ones that involve two functions with the same name in the same module scope are bad ones :) < 1307496240 91789 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see anything wrong with M.accessor x < 1307496289 192887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/ExistingRecords#First-classsyntax < 1307496298 656346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :M.accessor x is ugly. < 1307496303 53348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and verbose. < 1307496308 233063 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like this proposal. Except the second syntax form is kind of weird and isn't really needed. < 1307496309 351994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :M is usually more than one letter :P < 1307496328 506131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS ML-STYLE MODULES DAMMIT < 1307496342 523746 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's wrong with "accessor x", where the name is resolved by the type of x? < 1307496431 219361 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (=:) x = "test" in (=:) 3 < 1307496432 27700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "test" < 1307496509 649291 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (~) < 1307496509 895640 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.HUnit.Base (~:) :: Testable t => String -> t -> Test < 1307496510 76596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.HUnit.Base (~=?) :: (Eq a, Show a) => a -> a -> Test < 1307496510 239192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.HUnit.Base (~?) :: AssertionPredicable t => t -> String -> Test < 1307496511 29965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : so what's wrong with "accessor x", where the name is resolved by the type of x? < 1307496516 941141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unstructured overloading is Scary. < 1307496531 368343 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lazy pattern < 1307496538 875683 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equally structured to x.accessor < 1307496551 844706 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just no sugar. < 1307496563 324126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, it's not about sugar < 1307496572 733061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .accessor denotes something very important here, it conveys the intent < 1307496586 857151 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> case Nothing of ~Just x -> "This will break " ++ x < 1307496587 699985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : Parse error in pattern < 1307496591 572718 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1307496601 779229 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> case Nothing of ~(Just x) -> "This will break " ++ x < 1307496604 727242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel http://r6.ca/blog/20090511T013939Z.html is quite relevant here < 1307496607 28004 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1307496610 294774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's about a more dynamic kind of dispatch than this. < 1307496612 214871 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> case Nothing of ~(Just x) -> "This will break " ++ x < 1307496615 79806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "This will break *Exception: :(3,0)-(4,21): Irrefutable patter... < 1307496630 94712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh FUCK NO fly < 1307496635 573438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get the FUCK out of this room < 1307496780 499944 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought it was about structured overloading.. < 1307496818 412197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes but "f x" doing any kind of overloading is Scary :) < 1307496831 62724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's unstructured about "accessor functions are special, can overlap in a namespace, and are resolved by the type of their first argument" < 1307496898 985267 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary for the timid, I suppose. It changes absolutely nothing about the semantics. It's purely a syntax thing to convey a smidgeon of extra warning that something (apparently) EVIL is going on. < 1307496900 185194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what? "accessor functions are special"? < 1307496906 640034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type-directed name resolution works on /every/ function < 1307496935 782686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's what you're defending, I'm defending someting else. < 1307496972 519736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys what does fly poo look like < 1307496976 396828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is important < 1307496983 721893 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :miniscule. < 1307497003 919937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so this thing on my bed < 1307497005 114082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt fly poo < 1307497012 252044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh its fluff < 1307497022 84438 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's large enough to cause alarm probably not. < 1307497205 123469 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1307497221 32332 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, accessor functions are already special in the sense that they're automatically generated. It would be perfectly reasonable to specialize them a small step further by allowing their names to be disambiguated by first argument. Regular functions don't /need/ type-directed name resolution so they should be excluded. < 1307497269 599694 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, yes, unstructured overloading is scary. < 1307497337 871452 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :overloading of record field names is not scary, and is pretty commonly encountered in languages. < 1307497438 702781 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :overloading of the . symbol to be a kind of reversed function application, a means to qualify variable names, and function composion... is pretty scary. < 1307497458 574827 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-212.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1307497567 448354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1307497576 190037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but dude < 1307497578 920432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pass accessor functions around < 1307497587 983004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :treating applications of accessor functions differently to all other functions < 1307497590 310486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the exact same syntax < 1307497593 97647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the exact same naming rules < 1307497598 851984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the most perverse, horrible thing ive ever heard of < 1307497609 963960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and goes right against everything i know about the spirit of haskell i.e. no insane non-local shit like that < 1307497629 721900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway . as composition already needs spaces around it because of module resolution < 1307497636 19569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally I would prefer some kind of unicode for composition < 1307497639 10105 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307497642 617124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that . could be less weird like that < 1307497644 290529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's like that anyway < 1307497648 508818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we might as well take advantage of it < 1307497752 199982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :four days without homestuck update :'( < 1307497813 363775 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't going to be a Flash, is there? < 1307497838 632559 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'd assume there would be, if not for the fact that the point of Doc Scratch narrating seems to be to prevent it < 1307498118 395047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see formspring. no flash till EOA < 1307498146 459764 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last Bonobo Conspiracy update was July 10, 2010 < 1307498832 155182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1307499075 632738 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1307499076 120420 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1307499076 282794 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1307499076 607772 :Herobrine!~Herobrine@208.78.103.223 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1307499076 932682 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1307499077 340278 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1307499084 550713 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1307499085 609321 :Herobrine!~Herobrine@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307499091 140131 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just noting that some webcomics are kind of sad in how irregular updates have become, and MSPA hasn't hit that point < 1307499100 354334 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1307499101 900217 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1307499102 62537 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1307499215 570898 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1307499226 250686 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1307499248 422442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT TARSKI < 1307499347 385104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so... "some comics are dead -> a comic which has updated as often as twenty-one pages in one day not updating for four consecutive days, despite there being no Flash update coming, is irrelevant"? :p < 1307499357 980242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc it's not actually a big deal that it hasn't updated, but still < 1307499383 197516 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GHC could easily substitute the first argument of the accessor name to be a until the type is known. It doesn't have to resolve it immediately. :) < 1307499391 629574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um how is that relevant < 1307499440 793551 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1307499447 473825 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's relevant because it has nothing to do with insane non-local shit. < 1307499470 803673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is definitely non-local; the semantic definition of "f x" can change just because the definition of f was changed < 1307499473 666841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider that < 1307499493 436188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype MyMonadStack a = MyMonadStack { runMyMonadStack :: LotsOfTransformers a } < 1307499495 611218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is often used but also < 1307499502 293827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype MyMonadStack a = MyMonadStack (LotsOfTransformers a) < 1307499507 18677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runMyMonadStack (MyMonadStack m) = m < 1307499508 539975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is used too < 1307499511 491686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in similar proportions < 1307499522 633604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck 'em. < 1307499526 669070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have this kind of trivial refactoring drastically change the semantics of every function application in another module < 1307499528 610320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is completely insane < 1307499529 681498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and terrible < 1307499530 922488 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to make my Haskell/Perl hybrid. < 1307499534 946710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1307499537 706709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have terrible taste < 1307499558 323224 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you make a Haskell/Perl hybrid? < 1307499566 273454 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :carefully. < 1307499581 746370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1307499594 443329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hybrid in principle, not in exact semantics, of course. < 1307499600 898846 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1307499900 419603 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional style (not ncessarily pure), powerful type system, convenient syntactic/semantic constructs, general awesomeness all around. < 1307500037 933662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you want perl 6. < 1307500083 277755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab gc time < 1307500091 513378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Running at only 91.5MHz on an FPGA, the Reduceron is faster than mature bytecode implementations of Haskell running on a 2.8GHz PC." ;; wow, I had no idea things were /this/ good < 1307500116 272126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cool if there was some automatic parallelisation stuff going on too with a many-cored graph reducer... < 1307500145 363363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "bytecode implementations" < 1307500149 473697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's excluding GHC? < 1307500158 623858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1307500164 613385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? < 1307500166 493932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that GHC isn't a bytecode implementation.. < 1307500174 771527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc has a few stages which could be described as similar to bytecode < 1307500203 628454 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's probably not what they mean, in the context of final state execution. < 1307500209 814893 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/state/stage/ < 1307500215 877034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan I think knows more than me, but spineless tagless g-machine? < 1307500310 90108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah: < 1307500311 603653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On average, the Wide Reduceron (on FPGA) outperforms the Reduceron, < 1307500311 766203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yhc, and Nhc98 bytecode interpreters (on PC). All of these implementations < 1307500311 766380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :share a common frontend, so each interpreter runs the same core Haskell programs. < 1307500334 163464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The leading native-code compiler GHC performs many advanced optimisations. For example, GHC spots that the critical safe function in Queens is < 1307500334 326290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict, so need not be instantiated on the heap. Similar optimisations might be < 1307500334 326471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :used in a future Reduceron implementation, but architectural changes would be < 1307500336 461662 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugs is bytecode right? < 1307500339 688591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :times slower than GHC -O2 (on PC)." < 1307500341 599727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, hugs is a straight interpreter < 1307500343 625324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1307500351 198305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.85 slower than GHC with -O2 < 1307500351 465585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1307500352 858545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really impressive < 1307500361 323067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the Reduceron is an /FPGA/ running at 91.5MHz... < 1307500384 343094 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a modest improvement in hardware should make it run faster I'd think. < 1307500396 171142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although investing into getting such optimisations working would be a more productive use of time < 1307500407 525735 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1307500416 969934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brute force doesn't usually scale :) < 1307500446 215247 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have elastic super powers. < 1307500462 916837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should ask ais about fpgas again. < 1307500465 206395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can scale to whatever you please.. < 1307500473 269205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Vorpal, he's done some stuff with them iirc. < 1307500493 785444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just so expensive, though :( < 1307500601 474680 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't ghci use a bytecode backend < 1307500609 872975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-starter.html ;; bet this is shit < 1307500617 675696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheap though < 1307500640 265805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seemingly their highest-end "starter kit" (i.e. thing anyone could ever hope to afford) < 1307500653 864996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks xilinx < 1307500662 644325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fucking duopolies) < 1307500686 215488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, xilinx's site is user-hostile < 1307500730 69295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JESUS I JUST WANT SOMETHING ORDERED BY PRICE < 1307500736 333882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate you hate you hate you < 1307500775 553321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atlys Spartan-6 FPGA Development Kit $349 < 1307500775 794311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :($199 for academic customers) A complete, ready-to-use development platform based on a Xilinx Spartan-6 LX45 FPGA, the Atlys kit features high-end peripherals and is an ideal host for complete digital systems built around embedded processors like Xilinx’s MicroBlaze. < 1307500775 956819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spartan-6 FPGA SP605 Evaluation Kit $495 Conveniently delivers all the basic components for developing cost and power-sensitive applications that require transceiver capabilities in one package. < 1307500781 594928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stab my eyes out < 1307500806 559521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want to try the reduceron but im not paying hundreds of pounds more for something that is compatible with the reduceron toolchain :D < 1307500829 227326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clocking < 1307500829 426203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :50-MHz on-board oscillator < 1307500836 317530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it's about half as fast as the one the reduceron guys used i guess < 1307500885 786880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok they used Virtex-5 it seems < 1307500906 859810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my fuck xilinx site < 1307500907 993377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate your shits < 1307500977 95670 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: start a t-shirt business. < 1307500981 265507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1307500986 557861 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :find trendy things to make t-shirts about. profit. < 1307501016 766108 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially obscure trendy nerdy things. Read xkcd for ideas. < 1307501041 49061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :id rather stab my eyes out < 1307501052 478741 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't make money from that! < 1307501060 201261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you i can do whatever i want < 1307501106 543863 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your reduceron isn't going to be much use if you can't write Haskell programs because you don't have any ideas. < 1307501112 841565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas for what < 1307501117 913712 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ideas/eyes/ :P < 1307501124 507054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i don't want a reduceron well i mean i do but < 1307501128 665581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mostly want to write my OWN SHIT YEAAAAAAAH < 1307501138 265781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont tell anyone that im essentially talentless and unmotivated < 1307501160 348087 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey you can write a wc shortcut faster than me. < 1307501180 767139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just because i have a functioning brain ;DDDDDD < 1307501233 938094 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that's not nice. < 1307501251 619129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorry can yo ufind it in ur hert.... to forgive me......... < 1307501285 959053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..no? asshole. < 1307501459 36812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1307501519 958386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cry < 1307501566 958547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :hurt feelings on irc: the game | | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1307501567 185517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric set by elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott at Tue Jun 7 19:36:45 2011 < 1307501574 307584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf happened there < 1307501583 438245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :hurt feelings on irc: the game | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1307501628 396148 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: must have been a server glitch. < 1307501643 563613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a bad copy-paste. < 1307501652 965183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? never. < 1307501682 419395 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always use fresh paste when copying < 1307501726 686804 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always kill it before you yank it. < 1307501798 768585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross gross < 1307501831 226495 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know nothing of my work. < 1307501988 624559 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I decided for my regexp language it would be a good idea to not make bare symbols means "match this character", which makes things a lot easier when trying to specify a complex language of any sort. < 1307502031 51808 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use quotes to match literal strings of text. *(capturename = "literalstring") < 1307502043 551717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also decided to make * and friends prefix, because that's how I roll. < 1307502080 993856 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also () doesn't implicitly capture to a numeric group because that's lame when you can just assign to variables. < 1307502143 659947 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1307502244 240868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1307502296 701381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1307502376 625737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whos a... < 1307502389 351350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i dunno < 1307502410 568829 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...whut? < 1307502413 182847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ar < 1307502441 397050 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I attempt to call an ambulance? < 1307502513 875979 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to take a Benadryl and a melatonin. If anything bad happens, blame my dad who claims he gives that to his patients all the time < 1307502528 802721 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely nothing bad will happen. < 1307502567 970017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wtf are you talking about < 1307502570 236915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a fatal dose < 1307502571 629330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus Sgeo < 1307502573 457240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get to a fucking hospital < 1307502577 99235 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can take a whole bottle of melatonin tablets and be fine. < 1307502586 270411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what the fuck were /you/ talking about? < 1307502609 895158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: JESUS CHRIST do you KNOW what benadryl and melatonin fucking do together? < 1307502616 975286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo trust me please jesus christ get to a hospital < 1307502622 379958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could die < 1307502741 794738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its funny because sgeo is actually on his way right now < 1307502855 190077 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1307502918 338471 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were to say I took 8 pills of Tylenol, how would elliott actually attempt to tell me that that's bad, given that he pretends things like this are bad < 1307502927 220815 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this==benadryl + melatonin) < 1307502953 851459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is bad. It is as bad as anything else. < 1307502987 515315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... not really. < 1307502989 677012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: guess what < 1307502999 968496 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are definitely different levels of bad in relation to drugs. < 1307503000 933310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i am not here to tell you what cocktail of deadly drugs will or will not end your life < 1307503017 87933 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: actually I believe you would also survive 8 tylenol as well. < 1307503023 995633 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a complicated troll or ignorance at work? i can't tell! < 1307503024 268321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorry ive not yet explained to you... but this is not...... an internet doctor.......... < 1307503033 825703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: what, Sgeo? < 1307503037 490745 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to go check out the details of tylenol to be sure i wasn't misremembering < 1307503039 764203 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol yes < 1307503047 451642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, 16 tylenol then < 1307503051 807468 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if i take a bunch of tylenol i bet that's not bad either!!!" < 1307503056 80557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: no he just doesn't have any kind of built-in reaction to making a fool of himself in public < 1307503063 389188 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, I didn't say that < 1307503076 303274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to be unrectifiable < 1307503090 491734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most lethal concoctions of drugs will result in you vomiting and thus surviving. If you really want to kill yourself with drugs the best way is to also take an anti-vomiting agent (there is a fancy term for it but I can't remember the name) < 1307503103 346911 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307503104 873527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: erm tylenol is paracetamol is it not? < 1307503112 663676 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or take one bullet to the head every hour until success < 1307503115 118045 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Tylenol is dangerous, I'm just saying if I didn't, what would elliott say if I said I was taking it? < 1307503115 291486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually, a bunch of them is an excellent way to kill yourself < 1307503119 227477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er, no. < 1307503128 793411 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably that it was dangerous? < 1307503129 447461 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :acetominophen < 1307503133 947826 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aceta < 1307503135 957981 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1307503138 52745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think there would be more obvious signs that you were fucked < 1307503141 681191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um that's another name for paracetamol < 1307503147 408661 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well then yes. :) < 1307503153 326506 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every drug has TWO NAMES! < 1307503161 124266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well that's actually quite a large cause of death < 1307503162 782472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi, unless it has 3 < 1307503163 29727 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's awesome that way < 1307503166 967136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just takes ages < 1307503168 870055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is really painful < 1307503174 720970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you just vomit it up < 1307503205 773307 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i think most over the counter stuff that is dangerous includes things to make you puke if you take too much < 1307503209 420806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, 16 tylenol MIGHT kill you. But most suicide attempts with medicine fail for that reason. < 1307503210 548782 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1307503226 408172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: right, but actually paracetamol is one of the exceptions, overdoses are _really_ bad < 1307503238 679981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there's a bunch of stories of suicidal people taking a bunch of paracetamols as a cry for help < 1307503248 191242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: get woken up from unconsciousness hours later < 1307503255 278129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: told to call their family because they're going to die slowly and painfully < 1307503262 680147 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely. < 1307503265 167464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1307503293 162981 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just don't have a reaction to making a fool of myself in here? < 1307503294 777170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moral: always try to suicide with something harmless like ibuprofen < 1307503299 813094 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, if I ever kill myself, I will know exactly what I'm doing. I have this shit down. < 1307503311 296338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok ibuprofen overdoses can do some bad shit but it's not going to be that bad) < 1307503312 521636 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will most certainly die as a result. < 1307503321 301850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you mean we alone have to experience this shit?? < 1307503322 460859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1307503326 764180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did we go wrong < 1307503365 914557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a fool of himself on #esoteric quite often. < 1307503384 290630 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are all fools. < 1307503388 500828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe oerjan. < 1307503396 339749 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's got a ph.d and shit. < 1307503487 189311 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: itym N-(4-hydroxyphenyl)ethanamide < 1307503495 658711 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: BTW, a normal dosage of Tylenol can actually cause liver failure in rare cases; it's *very* close to the lethal dose. < 1307503513 339945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: go fuk urself < 1307503515 779058 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tylenol, BTW, is the leading cause of liver failure. < 1307503519 122820 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: good to know. < 1307503521 993601 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not drinking. Tylenol. < 1307503526 324709 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is *fucking scary shit*. < 1307503561 10525 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: doesn't help that it's in a lot of non-tylenol drugs < 1307503696 996676 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1307503842 48417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_ you also get a free Perfect Computer < 1307503848 183109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes my cost-free receiver list: oerjan, pikhq < 1307503885 291306 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION barfs some more at gnulib's usage < 1307503940 930584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1307503941 168921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A notable feature of our new design is that each of its six < 1307503941 331315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :semantic reduction rules is performed in a a single-clock cycle. All < 1307503941 331409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the necessary memory transactions required to perform a reduction < 1307503941 333512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are done in parallel. The Reduceron performs on average 0.55 < 1307503943 904042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand-reductions per clock-cycle. A hand-reduction is a reduction < 1307503945 902916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that programmer would perform in by-hand evaluation trace of a < 1307503947 902097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :program; it includes function application and case analysis, but not < 1307503949 900954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine-level reductions such as updating and unwinding." < 1307503976 566356 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function to *concatenate file names* ends up pulling in basically a reimplementation of stdio.h. < 1307503996 595209 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. I give up on GNU. It is the worst software. < 1307504006 277860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#External_resources < 1307504007 146575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1307504012 264406 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: serious question. < 1307504016 911115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh man i totally want you to meet your few-years-ago self < 1307504021 880358 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: would you help write a libc? < 1307504041 567050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION predicts the answer: "yes if musl didn't already exist" < 1307504049 296329 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, but only because there is already a libc I find entirely satisfactory, modulo a small handful of missing bits. < 1307504053 493022 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1307504055 517653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was riiiiiiight < 1307504057 926279 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl! < 1307504059 137931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why did you ask? < 1307504068 530609 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I may be writing a libc < 1307504084 787477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: for what purpose? < 1307504086 881005 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307504094 228045 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: LLVM project < 1307504102 821037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why are existing libc unsuitable? < 1307504104 611670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :legit question < 1307504120 512923 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only PCC could build Busybox and Linux. Then, I could have a GNU-less system up and running easily. < 1307504132 541895 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: clang? < 1307504132 793801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, there is rather a lot of GTK software. Ah well. < 1307504135 349411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: pcc kind of sucks though. < 1307504139 931647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you'd still need binutils < 1307504144 255486 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: musl is unsuitable due to GPL. < 1307504151 320014 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: musl is not GPL. < 1307504158 299418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: musl is not GPL < 1307504164 73303 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, lpgl < 1307504164 405178 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Clang needs a C++ library. < 1307504165 475790 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gpl < 1307504170 65959 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it has one < 1307504171 929290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why does lgpl make it unsuitable? < 1307504172 91469 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly complete < 1307504177 310229 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: LLVM project is BSD < 1307504180 698252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and? < 1307504188 116042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why does LLVM need to integrate musl? < 1307504189 449423 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Would you like a list of C++ libraries that can bootstrap? < 1307504195 954422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what? < 1307504209 196614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm not sure how the license is a problem here, or anything < 1307504210 538118 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GNU's. That's it. There are no other suitable free C++ libraries. < 1307504222 125958 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though LLVM's is at least getting there. < 1307504223 653170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it was coppro who mentioned that llvm has a c++ library, not me < 1307504225 72327 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I believe libc++ can do so on Mac < 1307504226 645866 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1307504235 385253 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hey, we agreed to meet up some time in 2014, didn't we? I think I lost the plan. < 1307504251 971758 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presently, though, you need GNU to get clang working. < 1307504257 67106 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because the LLVM project can't have a libc that is LGPL, since it's a BSD-licensed project... what's so hard to understand? < 1307504262 861034 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You need a C++ compiler < 1307504267 806822 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :** := a*(ia); *. ** "|" #awww yeah < 1307504269 171695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why does musl need to be "part" of the LLVM project? < 1307504269 950784 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfectly capable of compiling itself < 1307504271 581680 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why I care about PCC *at all*. PCC can bootstrap, very quickly. < 1307504272 370629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I do not understand. < 1307504281 974067 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, except for the need for a C++ library. < 1307504298 487048 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: k < 1307504304 419410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that was a request for clarification < 1307504315 884674 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Suppose that it compiled and worked under libc++ < 1307504323 395408 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not that far off on Linux < 1307504324 908408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... I don't expect the pcc team to suddenly announce "We're importing uClibc!" < 1307504334 915813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :idgi, why does the fact that LGPL is not the same license as LLVM matter < 1307504339 867514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the goal < 1307504343 603347 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If libc++ worked on musl, or could be ported easily, then I would be entirely satisfied with clang. < 1307504355 297245 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the simple fact that Linux doesn't build yet... < 1307504359 156565 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It's supposed to be as C-library agnostic as possible < 1307504363 775189 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Enough of Linux builds < 1307504367 132958 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I think is the only major thing that *doesn't*. < 1307504368 168315 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :While I have no complaint if you use BSD-license, I do not want to use BSD-license for my own projects. (Although I make some projects in the public domain, which is compatible with BSD-license so it isOK) < 1307504389 662346 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, in short, clang is still a WIP, but it is *very very close*. < 1307504395 700577 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: there are some issues with parts of the C++ library being unimplementable on top of a purely standard C library, though < 1307504401 736475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suspect LLVM is attempting an embrace/extend/extinguish on GNU's build chain. < 1307504411 472703 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hence why I said "or could be ported easily". < 1307504419 459813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: we will never know, since coppro has apparently decided he doesn't want to answer me any more < 1307504425 343184 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: is musl posix-compliant? < 1307504436 195442 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not quite, but nearly so. < 1307504440 647949 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, the required facilities are logical extensions < 1307504442 747106 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in locale < 1307504455 157355 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is musl and clang and these things? < 1307504457 177123 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, if every locale-aware function has an _l version, I think it's good < 1307504485 290794 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if musl already has _l functions, adding them to the others is a fairly straightforward transformation < 1307504495 489993 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly even something clang could do automagically < 1307504510 118194 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it does, though its locale support is somewhat anemic. < 1307504513 699346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you actually going to answer my simple question...? i'm actually curious. < 1307504516 618255 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It supports C.UTF-8 as its locale. < 1307504528 767574 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: not just "C"? < 1307504528 977825 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it has _l functions. < 1307504539 334224 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Nope, it's very specifically UTF-8. < 1307504547 146868 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ASCII is old and retarded. < 1307504550 159175 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that's non-compliant :/ < 1307504563 630559 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a very minor issue. < 1307504568 217291 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well it is if it doesn't support "C" < 1307504576 336169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you /ignoring me < 1307504578 121003 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it just has "C.UTF-8" as the default, no issues < 1307504579 251297 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1307504597 913587 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII is not retarded. < 1307504598 577945 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think e/e/e is a bad way of putting it, but is effectively the goal < 1307504611 801121 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that GNU has already actually e/e/ed the build chain < 1307504611 963517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why not just endorse musl? < 1307504615 391570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is pointless to duplicate work < 1307504628 153061 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because Apple, the main sponsors, want BSD < 1307504631 456440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think even Apple would object to an LGPL libc, though of course they won't likely be switching because they're BSD < 1307504655 38555 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The default locale is named C.UTF-8 and has all the required properties of the C or POSIX locale, plus UTF-8 semantics for high bytes. Collation is plain codepoint-order, and character classes are based on Unicode." < 1307504659 493982 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, there we go. < 1307504679 846442 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1307504682 546972 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine then < 1307504687 474648 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not relevant to the C++ stuff < 1307504690 428747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well if the justification is just "Steve Jobs wants us to duplicate the large amount of work that goes into creating a conformant, fast, lightweight libc because he's being unreasonable about licenses", then who the hell would want to devote time to that?? < 1307504724 62876 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if you are using a single-byte encoding and do not want UTF-8? Then there might be some problem. I think UTF-8 already has the feature that sorting using normal strcmp can still work with Unicode < 1307504733 331214 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well they have their own libc so it's actually irrelevant to them directly < 1307504738 188369 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that what it's missing is some C99 math functions, *perhaps* a few wide character interfaces, POSIX priority scheduling options, and stuff added in POSIX 2008. < 1307504745 853345 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :crud < 1307504748 471212 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :locale_t was 2008 < 1307504759 291411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: musl has some oh-eight stuff < 1307504765 221278 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What header would it be in? I can check. < 1307504765 766739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: precisely... so I don't see the need to do anything more than endorse musl. < 1307504772 11840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it just sounds like completely duplicated work. < 1307504773 260498 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: locale.h; possibly xlocale.h < 1307504779 616280 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the simplest answer is that LLVM wants a complete toolchain. LLVM is BSD-license < 1307504791 14840 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make no sense to add some LGPL stuff to it < 1307504794 490238 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has locale_t. < 1307504795 502225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok, so "we're being pointlessly anal about licenses, and we want to NIH things" < 1307504799 912644 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's goddamn duplicated work < 1307504802 887903 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why GPL sucks < 1307504808 18812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: IT'S LGPL < 1307504815 497876 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: s/GPL/copyleft/ < 1307504816 899050 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1307504817 478206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL is unacceptable for licenses < 1307504818 623072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LGPL isn't < 1307504831 114330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: LGPL isn't copyleft in the "bad" sense because _it doesn't affect linkers_ < 1307504842 464313 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not absurd copyleft < 1307504854 709492 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes no sense from the LLVM project's perspective either < 1307504861 449171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, it is absolutely ridiculous for LLVM to want to duplicate a massive amount of effort because "we want a COMPLETE toolchain (for no reason) under this SPECIFIC license (because of our egos)" < 1307504863 101789 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose someone is considering using LLVM < 1307504869 347639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointless waste of time < 1307504869 509877 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then they see that it's LGPL < 1307504873 586441 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't do LPGL code < 1307504876 243706 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well shit < 1307504881 476183 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, musl is a libc I'm actually happy with on a technical basis. < 1307504883 171958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you're... actually making less than 0 sense. < 1307504884 805062 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of corporate users won't touch any GPL < 1307504897 235500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: lots of corporate users aren't exactly going to switch out their libc < 1307504898 20311 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have not worked in the software industry < 1307504898 182621 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *actually understand how the damned thing works*. < 1307504908 683886 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'd be surprsied < 1307504910 783259 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*surprised < 1307504937 716772 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The corporate world runs around Windows. Each compiler has its own libc there. Any further questions? < 1307504940 394210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok... so "we're going to duplicate a massive amount of work for (a) our egos (b) so that a few corporate idiots will be happy"? Is anyone not using LLVM right now because it doesn't have its own libc? < 1307504954 483525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, I was going to use LLVM, but it doesn't have a graphical display server? Skip it." < 1307504959 949332 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not AFAIK, but the project would like to provide that and I agree with that idea < 1307504968 945136 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, duplicated work is not all bad in this instance < 1307504979 868131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't heard a single good reason for llvm to provide a libc < 1307504980 73884 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are more viable options, e/e/e is less likely to happen < 1307504986 662583 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I'm certainly uninterested in writing a libc when there's a perfectly *great* one already around. < 1307504989 684942 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because why not? < 1307504992 653673 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: k < 1307505001 216725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because why not? < 1307505008 48151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by that logic LLVM should provide a complete fucking OS and application set < 1307505026 43120 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why does LLVM provide a C compiler? < 1307505033 417171 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly that's not part of the project < 1307505036 138107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because it's a compiler project. < 1307505039 432118 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1307505042 352033 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a compiler backend project < 1307505052 256489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it obviously isn't < 1307505065 532172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, i'm done with this conversation, it has reached heights of stupidity I thought impossible < 1307505069 16604 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1307505102 645979 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: please go extend every locale aware function to have one with an _l suffix that takes a locale_t < 1307505109 640294 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it already has _s, make it _sl) < 1307505138 37027 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the locale-aware functions, anyways? < 1307505157 201034 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :any function that is defined in the C spec to alter its behavior when the locale changes < 1307505186 633984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If LLVM becomes with many good things than GNU, then maybe it will be good thing idea to use. < 1307505189 27731 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is going to be a paper to this effect in front of the C committee at some unspecified time in the future < 1307505277 844872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Already, it's generally got a better toolchain than GNU... < 1307505288 728033 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What, incidentally, are the chances of binutils being replaced? < 1307505309 542862 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: high < 1307505322 894268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: to what effect? < 1307505324 978331 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: there's already an integrated assembler on some platforms < 1307505342 194159 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Does it optimize? There are some features of GNU that should be used, such as, being able to declare array with [0] is good thing I think < 1307505347 564583 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 23:51 < coppro> pikhq_: please go extend every locale aware function to have one with an _l suffix that takes a locale_t < 1307505353 44785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1307505369 530935 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The optimizer is not quite as good as GCC's yet, but it has other advantages < 1307505376 708358 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like having a compiler that doesn't suck < 1307505379 471417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you know, it might be worth contacting eta labs about relicensing and integrating musl. < 1307505396 806434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe unlikely, but a better use of time than writing yet another libc when a very good one has just recently been created. < 1307505419 798831 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: not sure what will happen to the ELF linker < 1307505440 163274 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: in theory it's unnecessary as you could create a platform where all libraries are linked in bitcode form < 1307505455 603917 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At present, most of the locale-aware functions only look at the globally stored locale. That is, a global variable that needs to have a lock over it in a large number of functions. < 1307505459 783361 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1307505474 280892 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, as long as they do not change the license so that it is no longer acceptable, then it should be OK. < 1307505482 546788 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: True, there is the llvm-ld. < 1307505509 909005 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :more importantly, C++ needs thread-safe access to those functions in specific locales and cannot do so because it can't lock them unless it just pauses every other thread < 1307505531 149391 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the optimizer may not be *quite* as good as GCC, but it is *definitely* good enough for general use. < 1307505535 771132 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307505549 155295 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'd even call pcc's good enough for general use, and that's not as good as LLVM. < 1307505558 201763 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC is very slow. Is LLVM faster? < 1307505582 131882 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it less messy than GNU programming? < 1307505582 838529 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, clang's something like 3 times faster. < 1307505595 923341 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually can understand LLVM source code. < 1307505610 955199 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't wait for Diablo 3. < 1307505618 805134 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must surely be as epic as Starcraft 2. < 1307505620 467833 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly elegant, but it's actually readable by humans. < 1307505631 840803 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Then I suppose those things do help. < 1307505704 801790 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare an array with [0]? < 1307505708 190005 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you ever do that < 1307505740 876904 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obfuscation of a pointer, perhaps. < 1307505768 995536 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: It's a GNUism for indicating that at the end of a structure is a dynamically allocated array. < 1307505778 231196 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? hmm, okay < 1307505796 616062 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a different means of doing it in C99, and so [0] is a deprecated GNU extension. < 1307505819 444038 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM uses that pattern in C++ without a standard syntax < 1307505949 800600 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wow. Apparently current SVN checkouts of clang builds pretty much all of Linux. < 1307505976 852192 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the integrated assembler works, making it so that the only GNU thing needed ATM to build Linux is GNU ld. < 1307505990 19616 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1307506041 351750 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307506051 704101 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure if the integrated assembler was that mature < 1307506053 801571 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently it is < 1307506118 960037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be cool to have a fully clang/musl system < 1307506146 8821 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly, it's not that far off. < 1307506154 22947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays around with this modular synthesiser < 1307506163 744246 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all that's needed is LLVM's libc++... < 1307506218 262386 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: get on it then < 1307506233 644423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: C++ is irrelevant < 1307506239 491971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for a basic Linux system. < 1307506252 458179 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clang itself needs C++, though. < 1307506267 201681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1307506273 113640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1307506276 466918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should fix that :p < 1307506830 579827 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think using [0] makes more sense than the C99 way, actually. < 1307506857 748083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun < 1307506862 45691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: seriously? < 1307506864 604734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] makes more sense than []? < 1307506964 369381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. Since, in a structure, the size of the structure when measuring, is only the part before that array. So, you put [0] to mean its sizeof measures 0 and when added to everything else, you can then add to sizeof, the number of elements and malloc, you can do it. And it should be allowed [0] anywhere in a structure, not necessarily at the end (but most commonly use at the end). < 1307506971 129025 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. GCC can be bootstrapped with a non-GCC compiler. < 1307506974 626285 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clang. < 1307506989 305705 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least to me, it makes mathematical sense. < 1307507020 513289 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: EDG's been doing it for years, but it's proprietary < 1307507057 549988 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda sad that it's notable when a compiler builds GCC. < 1307507075 467912 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like the sort of package you'd want to be able to build on anything that's no completely crazy. < 1307507078 748681 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/no/not/ < 1307507087 433012 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1307507094 409522 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that would make it too easy for people to infect it with proprietary software < 1307507096 74046 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In TeXnicard, I have used a [0] array in a union. < 1307507104 524764 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use it on systems where proprietary software is known to lurk < 1307507107 158391 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you're a bad person < 1307507142 465391 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... Which you generally can do, because GCC until very recently has been effectively the only compiler not from Microsoft. < 1307507151 161296 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why do you think I am a bad person? < 1307507172 30826 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: not at all true < 1307507189 903651 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm discounting the proprietary UNIX vendor's C implementations, because, well, you can discount everything else from them.) < 1307507204 944996 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: are you familiar with EDG? < 1307507211 120391 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, EDG. < 1307507224 476071 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also uses sizeof(struct{...}) < 1307507241 35748 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's entirely valid. < 1307507247 50770 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a little evil < 1307507250 789362 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit weird, but entirely valid. < 1307507263 817883 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a C compiler doesn't handle that, it's a pretty big bug. < 1307507268 306205 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307507286 911664 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmhrmhrm < 1307507317 483980 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes I know that, and I have it being used in some macros for allocating nodes. < 1307507332 751415 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn it < 1307507359 811499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it "a little evil"? < 1307507367 29232 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, it seems to me that you'd really *want* for a C compiler to be able to at least build on any ISO C89 platform. < 1307507376 575248 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: C99 < 1307507381 835642 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's not bury ourselves in the past < 1307507395 345004 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not anything supporting K&R... < 1307507411 349996 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :god no < 1307507420 925667 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The idea being to allow you to get a sane C environment up and running on anything. < 1307507422 95604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, is switching everything over to prefix/infix instead of the traditional prefix/postfix for regular expressions going to freak anyone out? < 1307507427 543747 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use [0] to allocate an array then the compiler should just do the same things as if a positive number is in there, it would make most sense, at least to me. < 1307507427 864173 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than being stuck with retardedly old shit. < 1307507431 912165 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *infix/postfix < 1307507469 904102 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't care if you pull this off by just building a retardly simple compiler to build the rest of the thing, BTW. < 1307507482 900375 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for an example of something "retardly simple", see TCC) < 1307507784 229654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if SmallBug will freakout on us for being so ~rude~ < 1307507834 711427 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, it'd be *really* awesome to have a full, tiny UNIX building with TCC. :P < 1307507862 588732 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as a serious thing, but y'know, just as a toy. An OS with every bit understandable... < 1307507865 726836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well it can build a modified kernel... < 1307507871 304451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux that is < 1307507871 541308 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm describing Minix, aren't I. < 1307507877 538559 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was 2.4. < 1307507921 200628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: so? :P < 1307507935 265921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, minix is a microkernel, which is probably not an aid to having a really small understandable system < 1307507941 119940 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! You have to make a book. Such as, write the operating system with CWEB. And then sell the book with the DVD in the back cover. < 1307507948 932960 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Minix is entirely intended as a small, understandable system. < 1307507966 456761 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a textbook. < 1307507978 504767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yes but that doesn't mean it succeeds. < 1307507980 990967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: -_- < 1307508025 761301 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: _-_ < 1307508031 317428 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your criticism of microkernels probably comes from how fucked up HURD is... < 1307508067 610101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: No, I'm just saying that if you want a self-contained, tiny system, a microkernel is probably an impediment to that < 1307508075 274354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's abstraction designed to make something easy that you don't want to do (extend the system) < 1307508082 598715 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah. < 1307508227 346809 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw microkernals, I run on this: http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2004/gavin.c < 1307508258 287082 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I specified "UNIX" for a reason. :P < 1307508273 207667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fun to golf a unix kernel (not golf as in raw bytes or lines of code, but) < 1307508295 492926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, question is, define Unix < 1307508299 542266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that can run bash? < 1307508312 951050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means running a pretty GNU-compatible libc < 1307508318 484620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdclib won't cut it < 1307508321 452153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably) < 1307508337 352177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc implies ELF < 1307508347 129897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't tcc also depend on linux somehow? dunno < 1307508350 469603 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :implies implies implies < 1307508360 309524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are the ELF headers linux-only?) < 1307508399 605512 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ELF headers aren't Linux-only; they *should* exist in the same place on all ELF platforms. < 1307508420 352185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a filesystem would be fun < 1307508432 193837 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's rather a lot of ELF platforms... < 1307508468 169444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I'm not quite sure how filesystems work :( < 1307508480 378444 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as "every non-Microsoft console since 2000". :P < 1307508506 274109 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Filesystems are really, truly nothing special. < 1307508517 409463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1307508525 793724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like HOW DO YOU APPEND A DIRECTORY ENTRY TO A DIRECTORY :D < 1307508529 338236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES SHOT COMPUTER :( < 1307508534 480531 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one of a handful of fairly mundane data structures on disc. < 1307508544 179050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose you could just have a pointer at the end of every directory entry < 1307508546 153554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do it linked-list style < 1307508549 184853 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That IOCCC operating system is not even complete < 1307508550 819279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just allocate randomly all over the disk < 1307508560 59338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like do you need a freelist of blocks? < 1307508579 318740 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You do also need to implement, basically, a malloc. < 1307508629 368691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :diskmalloc :D < 1307508725 618449 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone happen to know what the brightness-equivalent of resolution is in a camera? < 1307508800 773022 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what the term for that is? < 1307508822 761502 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going with "color space". < 1307508852 228729 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, how much brightness you can fit in? < 1307508855 558941 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a property of color space to me < 1307508870 494971 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, i mean how many distinct brightness levels you have < 1307508901 350979 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may as well be a property of the color space/color depth < 1307508903 970442 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :greyscale is still a monochromatic colorspace but there are many kinds of greyscale depending on how finely you cut the greyness < 1307508910 8075 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :color depth, maybe thats it < 1307508920 173688 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah color depth < 1307508921 395666 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1307508954 205024 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, Patashu! < 1307509009 653198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: you need to submit some awesome bf joust contestants to revive the sport again :P < 1307509019 486212 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1307509936 601828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if my bfjoust program is really long? < 1307509940 847758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1307509943 312076 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I submit it? < 1307509951 361137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[exclamation mark]bfjoust < 1307509954 618314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the current programs are really long < 1307509979 538431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/?C=S;O=D < 1307509984 958214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :largest program is 200K < 1307510012 188199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :space_elevator kicked off the recent "zomg huge programs" streak though, at 38K < 1307510021 502308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are machine-generated, I think < 1307510024 295444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anticipation is < 1307510030 940117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the furry-furry programs are, although actually < 1307510041 15237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :their K ratings are wrong because they include the base-sixtyfour encoding of the perl program that generated them < 1307510050 471034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :definer2 is generated too < 1307510056 338953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all these meaning partially generated, ofc) < 1307510063 340044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about defend9.75 but I think so < 1307510072 858567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the waterfall programs were < 1307510073 975754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307510075 622168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowpoke too I think < 1307510085 87940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we really need quintopia's scoring system though. < 1307510094 256105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: btw http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/report.txt < 1307510623 202677 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really have a place I can host my program. < 1307510641 651359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um sprunge.us < 1307510668 688408 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone attempted to genetically create bfjoust programs? < 1307510702 222997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1307510768 144795 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bf joust program is the best of all < 1307510784 15466 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an efficient killer < 1307510801 117318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307510805 254373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre about to submit a shitty program aren't you < 1307510809 193330 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :never. < 1307510816 624396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so you are concealing it from us < 1307510823 194224 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpossible. < 1307510863 485306 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, what's the best way to git from a git. < 1307510867 525180 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used git before. < 1307510959 486014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1307510966 611780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's git relevant to bf joust < 1307510983 878174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry about it. < 1307511014 970499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, 5.2 is a good score right? < 1307511022 621372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no. btw please submit things in-channel < 1307511031 6720 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. :) < 1307511034 188379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes us antsy if the board changes without us knowing :< < 1307511040 339302 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will laugh at how excellent my program is < 1307511050 112926 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is rushpolarity STILL so high up < 1307511051 682911 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so ooooold < 1307511055 701295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: please, it's a matter of common courtesy < 1307511080 46242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could set up a bot to constantly refresh the hg log, but it'd be easier just to submit in channel. < 1307511086 482802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is vlad even supposed to be < 1307511114 20006 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the impaler. :) < 1307511117 901987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: it's really successful for some reason < 1307511121 861229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i mean the strategy. < 1307511132 810647 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well http://sprunge.us/LPcT < 1307511136 30930 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see, it's genius. < 1307511139 736224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i can see it. < 1307511143 869510 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1307511146 789045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm asking how you made it, apart from vomiting on the keyboard < 1307511148 417210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, congratulations, you're at position 48 < 1307511196 535457 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you don't have to paste it < 1307511196 921006 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ < 1307511198 491540 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just find it in the list < 1307511204 936798 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nvm it's not in the list < 1307511209 260661 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because it didn't beat anyone < 1307511216 50982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did, but it was on the bottom < 1307511217 523724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it got trimmed < 1307511240 539229 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what I meant < 1307511243 359691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but seriously, it's vastly preferred if you submit programs in-channel. especially since the activity tends to generate interest in bf joust. < 1307511261 716536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well the idea was to go forward the minimum of 10 spaces, fill it with stuff because presumably that will slow someone down, and then proceed to blindly wipe everything in front of it to 0. < 1307511262 920918 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at this < 1307511263 990501 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet_vlad.bfjoust vs Gregor_return_of_ehird_defend8mwahahaha.bfjoust < 1307511264 153306 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<><<<><><><><><><><> <><<<<><><><><><><><> 6 < 1307511264 153418 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor_return_of_ehird_defend8mwahahaha.bfjoust wins. < 1307511269 61851 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some nice parity going on there < 1307511277 78868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: let's put it this way < 1307511285 570711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: any attack program will have obliterated you before you even get to their flag < 1307511291 426364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you waste endless cycles putting dummy values up < 1307511297 979580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you don't seem to be aware of the various abbreviations that exist. < 1307511304 360889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: sieved up all the kettles < 1307511307 334476 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, just looked at the wiki article < 1307511314 51952 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top part < 1307511315 922413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1307511321 387179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki article sucks < 1307511327 718856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because quint rewrote it making it unreadable < 1307511337 469945 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :look on the bright side < 1307511338 518168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BF_Joust&oldid=21108 instead < 1307511340 674205 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see the * syntax < 1307511340 969793 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you beat anticipation.bfjoust < 1307511341 584792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1307511362 847192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: well it's a sufficiently stupid program that "advanced" defenders and the like might get confused :P < 1307511369 216206 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, yes < 1307511383 625751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was hoping that I would be jousting against very complicated defensive things. < 1307511403 158650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeeeeeeees < 1307511407 986944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's always a mix on the hill < 1307511411 180024 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you even lost to my not very complicated things < 1307511411 884788 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooo < 1307511418 50287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because whenever the hill is full of defensive programs, attack programs do really well < 1307511420 113048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vice versa < 1307511426 113299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically the hill is always quite balanced. < 1307511461 936579 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see a sane way to encode any kind of logic when the other program can mess with my variables. < 1307511479 410133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that is because you are not an experienced jouster :) < 1307511499 614211 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... does x86_64 have delay-slot semantics??? < 1307511505 530694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically: set up large decoys before cells if you /really/ need scratch space. but generally, you don't want to store any values < 1307511511 199970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use [] as a conditional of sorts < 1307511518 474557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :set up tripwires and use them to work out what the program is doing < 1307511526 73952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: read http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies < 1307511527 744787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's there for a reason < 1307511534 640243 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read what elliott posted < 1307511536 182963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's practically How to Write Joust Programs: The Manual. < 1307511536 558704 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is enlightenin < 1307511537 388950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307511539 100687 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :soul transcending even < 1307511587 848010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: basically it goes through a bunch of simple to advanced attack and defence techniques, then covers all the number-one programs from the start of egobot's bf joust tournament setup to the present day, with explanations of the most interesting programs, and traces and animations in the online egojsout tool. < 1307511790 341055 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I would probably go with a defensive strategy. or the poke. < 1307511819 416270 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, nobody knows if x86_64 has delay-slot semantics :P < 1307511827 150400 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a clue what that is < 1307511836 838937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre a delay slot < 1307511842 749630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slottiest delay slot in all the galaxy < 1307511849 579480 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To put it differently, why did GCC generate this code: < 1307511850 105949 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : call *368(%rdx) < 1307511850 283551 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : movq GGGGC_fytheConstBank(%rip), %rdx < 1307511858 302612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow are you still working on fythe stuff? < 1307511863 381505 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, yes? < 1307511868 934832 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that GGGGC_fytheConstBank[368] is my function. < 1307511873 404703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, just before my fythe commits there had been none for like five thousand years :D < 1307511875 146468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to keep working on bignums soon btw < 1307511888 795007 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should look at GGGGC, not Fythe :P < 1307511903 917505 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got distracted building a friggin' amazing general-purpose GC. < 1307511927 101166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it have finalisers yet. < 1307511932 706508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares the "WHOOPS you suck". < 1307511980 571871 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a defensive poke vibrator < 1307512030 340396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'M GOING TO DROP THE WHOOPS YOU SUCK IF YOU DON'T REPLY SOON < 1307512162 412088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, is there a reason you use T-Rex instead of RE2? The latter is better-maintained and I would guess faster (though I don't have any benchmarks). OK, RE2 doesn't do backreferences, but it doesn't look like T-Rex does either. < 1307512184 353803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And both are C++, although T-Rex seems to have a few C wrappers that you'd have to whip up by hand with RE2. < 1307512198 233552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also RE2 handles Unicode; dunno about T-Rex.) < 1307512234 423870 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't have finalizers, I've been working on threadsafety. < 1307512237 864895 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And T-Rex is in C. < 1307512247 15612 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't use it unless PCRE is unavailable :P < 1307512266 300183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/fythe/hg/index.cgi/rev/8d99109d97d7 ;; Oh, it just has a C++ wrapper. < 1307512271 736150 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then you have to say "No seriously I want this bullshit" < 1307512276 170329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Doesn't T-Rex support different things to PCRE though? < 1307512282 339312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz, like, that's totally stupid if so :P < 1307512297 947344 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does JS regex; I haven't defined what subset of regex Fythe is supposed to support yet. < 1307512299 744228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Personally I'd advocate for always using RE2 since it'll make parsing stupidly fast, but then I'm me :P) < 1307512313 613381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also because using backreferences in regexp literals in a parser is a sign of insanity.) < 1307512318 380518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And not the good kind ether.) < 1307512320 580755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]either < 1307512416 708653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet logic from Elliottcorp: "I sure am really fucking ill. And getting to sleep is a royal horrible pain when I'm feeling like this! OBVIOUS SOLUTION: DON'T SLEEP". < 1307512684 450961 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm. I bet Fythe works on PCC and musl. < 1307512699 637000 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you don't suck. :P < 1307512730 343647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implying Gregor isn't the worst person. < 1307512791 288322 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, poo, it depends on GMP. I will have to build that. < 1307512874 169998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: YOU CAN THANK ME FOR THAT ;D < 1307512888 130759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that arithmetic is what you might call broken right now because I'm a lazy ass wrt the bignum support. < 1307512941 998997 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like space elevator. :) < 1307513027 157014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelevator < 1307513094 341006 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, libtool, if you're going to get your nasty teeth in everything couldn't you at *least* have the decency to check if shared libraries can be built? < 1307513235 682995 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1307513346 148541 :comex!~root@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should try BF Joust :) < 1307513361 664608 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307513507 697151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, time to try a better program. < 1307513593 798593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: good luck :P < 1307513602 831821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: the current hill is _extremely_ competitive. < 1307513615 719885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top program was considered game-breaking by its author for a while < 1307513634 817588 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a bfjoust program be 'game breaking'? < 1307513681 584281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: because the only programs that beat it might do terribly against all other types of opponents, etc. < 1307513695 512747 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1307513776 410187 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, there's a new king < 1307513787 385801 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't think bf joust saw much activity most times ;) < 1307513797 163992 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowrush has really sorta stood the test of time it seems, for which i am glad < 1307513807 462253 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause damn i don't want to write anything all complicated ;p < 1307513819 457818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: it had a huge burst of activity earlier this year < 1307513835 382319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and simple programs can still do very well, it's just that they tend to turn into complicated programs very quickly < 1307513837 6458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ask Gregor :P < 1307513924 240960 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1307513928 961853 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was here during that time i think < 1307514513 714373 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so, ] doesn't remember the starting point of the while right? < 1307514523 997197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what? < 1307514525 391793 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting tape element that is. < 1307514535 869399 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only interested in whether or not the current cell is zero. < 1307514537 57904 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks at whatever tape element is under your guy < 1307514543 452353 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1307514547 341502 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking. :P < 1307514552 944453 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to check the starting point use some <>s < 1307514561 146334 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more flexible this way < 1307514600 134443 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if I go back more spaces on each loop. :P < 1307514605 383301 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*want to go < 1307514628 391826 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1307514637 939817 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tape length is guaranteed to be within a finite range, so... < 1307514644 996128 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a program to generate whatever algorithm you're after < 1307514648 739678 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :program can be as big as you want < 1307514650 763000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307514654 55718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the standard practice nowadays < 1307514660 53120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to detect tape length and what the program's doing, react accordingly < 1307514668 145986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with big partially-generated programs < 1307514680 388024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with a generator tailored to that one algorithm, that is) < 1307514693 618017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You could look at some of Gregor's generated programs, they include the Perl code used to generate them < 1307514702 398279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as base-sixtyfour; running them as Perl produces the Perl code) < 1307514708 81799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is because BF Joust doesn't have full comments) < 1307514720 535192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth can you deduce the board length < 1307514741 213846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you READ space_elevator? :P < 1307514759 849926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But basically, number of cycles passed + where the opponent has tripwires + where the opponent's flag is + a bunch of other stuff = deduction. < 1307514799 38464 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how randomly_arbitrarily_large bfjoust would fare < 1307514806 287861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: wat? :P < 1307514853 631362 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to randomly_fairly_small bfjoust which is what we have < 1307514877 859341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Homestuck update, finally. < 1307514885 152879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: oh < 1307514888 295665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: the original tapes were very long < 1307514889 943615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr it sucked < 1307514891 893625 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307514894 267230 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :figured < 1307514961 66701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's pull back from this ever narrowing dark pocket. All this uncertainty is wearing thinner than the only pair of pants in an immortal's wardrobe." < 1307515073 983675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come the fuck ON Scratch did you just pull the "ONLY KIDDING THAT WASN'T THE ALPHA TIMELINE" shit < 1307515109 994748 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, so that's quarters' ability < 1307515133 116953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what was it? I must have missed it < 1307515148 471034 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've noticed the top banners change right < 1307515153 599113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was too busy fantasising about making Scratch speak in sentences of five words of four syllables each at maximum < 1307515155 939816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yes of course :P < 1307515160 568286 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :give them anotherl ook < 1307515162 884434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1307515165 780068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :disappearing into the quarter? < 1307515172 924109 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some kind of pokeball < 1307515174 295799 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1307515177 370612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1307515182 79434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gif loaded wrongly for me < 1307515214 676230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously what a cheap recovery. < 1307515358 205897 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going to do this one entirely by hand over the course of several days. < 1307515374 497489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You want to be testing it really regularly :P < 1307515377 709017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you'll just end up with a shitty program. < 1307515381 729792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use egojsout extensively, it is REALLY useful. < 1307515387 661074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and SEND THE COMMANDS IN-CHANNEL >:| < 1307515443 854916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: (...but seriously how come all the deceased members of the Felt are back to life. Spades has all his injuries, so this isn't pre-intermission.) < 1307515447 940039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe he's travelled back in time.) < 1307515459 486152 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, I hadn't even thought of that < 1307515467 421092 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just assumed pre-intermission < 1307515496 665673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: The banner on 5738 makes that even less likely X-D < 1307515520 872668 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1307515529 946947 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1307515540 287761 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1307515553 510952 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...jack noir = spades slick right? so he can't die. right?? < 1307515821 815184 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: egojsout, what is that? < 1307515833 533767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/index.php < 1307515834 865075 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am too lazy to read things before I plunge into something, obviously. < 1307515837 436992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as seen on the wiki < 1307515846 877634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you should _really_ read the entire strategies page. < 1307515850 960378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you _will_ get beaten mercilessly < 1307515860 834940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically egojsout is an interactive warrior development/debugging tool < 1307515873 225879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you pit any two warriors against each other, see a full trace of the execution, an animated version so you can see how the programs are operating... < 1307515885 9189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically vital for developing warriors. < 1307515893 543875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see all the "Trace and animation" links on http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies < 1307516764 156745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who is left in egojsout? < 1307516786 671128 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1307516789 651279 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can give it any two programs < 1307516800 93825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: nobody is left. only our dead souls. < 1307516803 159946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1307516832 556717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1307516841 758824 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, which program is left and which is right. < 1307516861 822566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :left istop < 1307516862 732469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is top < 1307516864 613281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right is bottom < 1307517000 492625 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1307517063 971298 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tape length is always 10... < 1307517092 538313 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should let you adjust it < 1307517130 900851 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it does. < 1307517143 591698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT USER FRIENDLY < 1307517157 706172 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is user friendliness paramount! < 1307517176 439257 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks at doing fast fourier transforms though < 1307517210 618687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um that's what all the links are for < 1307517215 67111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :first line is sieve, second line is kettle < 1307517220 100620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from left to right are the tape lengths < 1307517234 105172 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sieve? kettle? < 1307517252 10085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: sieve means + increments and - decrements for both players < 1307517256 764243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kettle means that + and - are swapped for one player < 1307517257 305863 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooh < 1307517259 77514 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kettle is- right < 1307517261 333528 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1307517265 816867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i named these and will never apologise for their naems. < 1307517267 966425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]names. < 1307517276 604025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember how flipping polarity used to be a viable strategy? < 1307517278 60784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307517281 763911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- GUY WHO PUT A STOP TO THAT HERE < 1307517295 629760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol oh wow i remember people rerunning programs ten times just to get a good tape length < 1307517311 683123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah we need quintopia's fixed-point scoring system IMHO < 1307517332 126021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:BF_Joust#Scoring < 1307517390 236805 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1307517397 967169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307517662 854699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how is a donkey < 1307517704 211704 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my current program beats slowpoke at some of the small boards and some of the middle boards. < 1307517732 226523 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/?l=c8f08955801dce28866a597d4ef33ea66dfba938&r=9a8203d4a81d0e908f795647f147054a602211bf < 1307517738 232506 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything can be beaten part of the time, it's beating stuff consistently that's troublesome < 1307517761 6999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1307517761 191608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 21 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1307517774 109148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, how did I manage that. < 1307517786 334314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lol ok so it basically doesn't beat it at all < 1307517788 760811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an unquestionable loss < 1307517791 343492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that slowpoke is /slow/ < 1307517792 602773 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know < 1307517793 711005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it against a rush program < 1307517803 579718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :allegro beats it on every single configuration < 1307517808 876452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost instantly < 1307517821 375193 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: on small boards my program is a rush program. Just needs some finetuning. < 1307517843 503749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at it, it's a rush program on every configuration, just a bad one :P < 1307517866 774694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loses against the furry furry girls on pretty much every configuration. < 1307517901 49081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you are actually fairly competitive with waterfall < 1307517912 818364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three, that is < 1307517913 943816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, congratulations, you have broken lambdabot with your stupidly large number of messages. < 1307517917 669440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On two you win but only by a small margin. < 1307517929 615323 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah there are ties and shit on waterfall < 1307517933 617776 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIES < 1307517937 900023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Fuck you, you beat ICA. < 1307517942 365155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Un-for-fucking-givable. < 1307517992 259242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loses against spelevator :P < 1307518011 184127 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly. < 1307518035 679798 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would make it more defensive? < 1307518091 157599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, a complete rewrite? They're orthogonal strategies. < 1307518099 280977 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it deliberate that there's no 'wait' command? < 1307518104 630855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write a hybrid, but that's really two programs fused into one. < 1307518105 910289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is wait < 1307518106 73004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: . is a nop < 1307518108 941193 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1307518118 823034 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't listed < 1307518141 685298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The revised version < 1307518141 848493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :User:ais523 introduced a revised version of BF Joust, with the following changes: < 1307518141 848671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new command . is added, which does nothing but takes one cycle < 1307518143 681198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in the old revision < 1307518147 496453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the new one, it's with every other command < 1307518153 49802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is saner, but unfortunately the text itself is unreadable :P < 1307518178 507622 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :merge 'em then < 1307518183 390979 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I blindly rush the first 5 cells the flag could be, and then go back and try to set up a defense but it seems by the time I get to that point they're already beyond my tripwire. < 1307518216 370974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: To be perfectly honest, this is the kind of program that would have done well two years ago :P < 1307518222 628157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Too lazy. :p < 1307518227 473801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if we get another resurgence. < 1307518262 977711 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1307518268 662861 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fucking shit < 1307518270 246995 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :question period < 1307518295 411356 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess mine isn't generated and massive enough. < 1307518303 991248 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help that I'm a shitty BF programmer. :P < 1307518304 660192 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1307518306 407952 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine isn't generated < 1307518311 209234 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still like 10th for some fucking reason < 1307518326 735468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what < 1307518332 319253 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tie with i_like_turtles < 1307518336 163747 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's almost respectable < 1307518337 786548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yours is a modified version of a polarity thing iirc :P < 1307518344 448136 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine isn't generated and it's third < 1307518344 660657 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the MPs are actually letting each other talk < 1307518345 367091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what is < 1307518347 967289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1307518361 897077 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Others he will beat and that will be neat. < 1307518373 288111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that would never happen in britain < 1307518374 598164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrocious < 1307518414 648351 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it got particularly out of hand last Parliament < 1307518425 81 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :going in, they all said they wanted a better parliament, but no one believed them < 1307518433 610405 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :turned out they seemed to actually mean it, at least so far < 1307518440 432451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm fucking disgusted. < 1307518443 21186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok we're coming over. < 1307518445 283751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I seem to win quite often on small boards. < 1307518445 694202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the queen and everyone. < 1307518447 410087 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :politicians not interested in long term well being of nation < 1307518448 656880 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :film at 11 < 1307518449 669921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're going to rebuild your society. < 1307518458 768595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have clearly been led astray by your lumberjacks. and kindness. < 1307518468 55910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's easy to win on small boards, because you can do a lightspeed rush < 1307518516 901464 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1307518518 843514 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I do. < 1307518873 850563 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you trick someone into suiciding. < 1307518901 953507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1307518968 699663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: complicatedly < 1307518972 936961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Vorpal what fpga board should i buy < 1307519034 357858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will tell you what I know about that if you give me the spec to the computer first < 1307519060 578446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to know a spoiler......................................... < 1307519069 289203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, however, why are you interested in an FPGA? < 1307519076 212540 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: MPs, *talking*? < 1307519079 239700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading extensively about the Reduceron < 1307519087 945228 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What's next, a constitution? < 1307519089 624230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is the spoiler? < 1307519094 888287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am getting interested in purely-functional hardware < 1307519106 673344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i never.........made a spec i................ was too busy doing.......... other things........... < 1307519115 945517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... when will you do it then < 1307519119 599711 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Canadian MPs < 1307519125 438750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, Canada. Technically has a constitution. < 1307519133 340511 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They talk. Typically all at once < 1307519139 377105 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :except not today, apparently < 1307519140 212389 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, need some other way of poking fun. < 1307519158 180626 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harder to do for Canada, because their government is *less* ridiculous. < 1307519162 466868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't know, ph has been waiting for like at least five months < 1307519169 226658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Harder to do for Canada, because their government is *less* ridiculous. <--- than US? yes < 1307519174 204580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't rush genius < 1307519175 445536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uh < 1307519178 570874 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Than the UK, actually, in this case. < 1307519180 666080 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, brainfuck programming is difficult. :P < 1307519180 982316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't rush mismotivated < 1307519190 72821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you did it for bsmnt < 1307519194 320926 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. It's still a monarchy ruled by divine right. < 1307519195 24854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and nobody since < 1307519199 622712 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty ridiculous. < 1307519209 527736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I guess I'll go ahead without you then < 1307519209 690892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had the spark that day, maybe i'll have the spark tomorrow, maybe two days in the future, but relying on me is generally a bad plan < 1307519227 397748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude you won't survive university if you can't keep deadlines < 1307519241 53573 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: If I see 5 conservatives vote against party lines and see an opposition-moved amendment on a government bill, I will go to Ottawa and attempt to hug every MP < 1307519246 878766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well to be fair there is significantly less resting on creating a spec for you. < 1307519257 805602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also your deadlines kept not actually being deadlines anyway. < 1307519265 364730 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: also I will publicize this promise < 1307519278 384027 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I might raise the numbers a bit < 1307519284 756713 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that they've four years to implement them < 1307519291 965736 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, some dude ruled the country, and had his kid take over, and so on, right? And you call this a way to rule a country? < 1307519299 485574 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You deserve everything you get, you git. < 1307519301 489322 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1307519305 401115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you using EDF or LST scheduling for your life? < 1307519323 142922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Boy howdy, that's undoubtedly a really hilarious joke I don't get. < 1307519331 787484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I'm serious < 1307519339 945205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Wikipediad it. Hilarious. < 1307519347 634373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which method do you think works best for real life. < 1307519355 229255 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: If by 'rule' you mean 'sit in a different country and only get directly involved very rarely, the last time to help a politician commit political suicide in order to implement the most intelligent economic measure attempted in 50 years', sure, got no problem < 1307519358 39309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm utterly serious. < 1307519371 559578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know, but I do know that my inability to "do X now" makes using any actual algorithm pointless. < 1307519375 481566 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDF sounds a lot like me < 1307519381 150169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, ah < 1307519402 160874 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Still less ridiculous than the UK. Where the Queen could do just about anything... < 1307519407 888409 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and get lynched for it, mind.) < 1307519412 549512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, LST works better in the presence of sporadic tasks iirc. < 1307519417 499502 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307519452 670734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, if she tried to do it, that right would very quickly be revoked < 1307519464 455475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As I said, "and get lynched for it". < 1307519467 974187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307519474 835085 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Y'know what? Fuck it. Think you could invade? < 1307519495 364224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, how does US and CA compare to each other wrt this? < 1307519500 638980 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I love framing < 1307519511 949595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE I'LL JUST ASK AIS ABOUT FPGAS INSTEAD ;_______________; < 1307519533 962701 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The US is nominally ruled by just consent of the governed, and there exists no single individual with a high level of power. < 1307519551 165169 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :counterexample: koch bros < 1307519555 137717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well, only nominally. < 1307519558 698828 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: "Nominally". < 1307519564 496576 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice, it depends. < 1307519564 958563 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nominally, sure < 1307519568 489327 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, that's how it works. < 1307519575 252466 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, most people do what they're told/what their parents do < 1307519579 476067 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of lack of free time < 1307519581 52234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes that's how it works? r u srs < 1307519592 264158 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, the President has large brass testicles and can effectively act as monarch. < 1307519601 205151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh I ended up doing an ineiros. I have a "restore session" tab listed in the "restore session" one. < 1307519620 770028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK Mr. FPGA "Enemy-Of" Vorpal < 1307519637 461016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bad person" < 1307519639 336778 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this turns out both good and bad, depending. < 1307519641 978404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, iirc you need state of the art for redueron. < 1307519648 952514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, simpler ones won't work < 1307519655 601239 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bush is the most recent example of it turning out bad. < 1307519657 220710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It only ran at ninety megahertz, but that's probably irrelevant :P < 1307519667 8146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only thirty-two kilowords of heap :P < 1307519671 321028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I don't expect to run the Reduceron. < 1307519674 232881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how many gates did it use? < 1307519674 661448 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "bad" I mean "holy fuck, he's probably fucked over the next few generations". < 1307519680 184396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want the best evaluation board that I can afford. < 1307519692 41595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know; the VHDL file is available but it is generated code. < 1307519713 292817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, you need to feed it into the synthesiser to get that info out < 1307519738 896130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, the PC software... The cheap editions are generally very sucky from what I understood < 1307519744 76904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It requires over < 1307519744 239771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2,000 logic gates, but this is less than 1% of our FPGA’s logic-gate < 1307519744 239942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :capacity." ;; comment on one specific piece of functionality < 1307519745 15534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the pro version at university < 1307519752 263695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could always pirate the software, couldn't I? < 1307519771 980855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure how easy it is to find such specialised software... < 1307519787 866356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1307519795 463543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://torrentz.eu/search?f=xilinx < 1307519795 678279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://torrentz.eu/search?f=altera < 1307519798 777031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't look too bad. < 1307519818 109550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I only used xilinx boards. You might get more info from ais on this stuff < 1307519838 839748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only the windows versions from what I can see < 1307519846 293367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :xilinx at least makes linux versions too < 1307519854 583178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I pretty much just want something that can run something bigger than "hello world", and that can do serial I/O :P < 1307519862 122516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why serial? 'Cuz it's fucking simple.) < 1307519879 304018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugging serial into a MacBook Air (via an adapter of course): HEIGHT OF WEIRDNESS? < 1307519900 521196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the board I programmed used parport. Anyway serial is easy. You can do the basics with two GPIO pins! < 1307519930 913323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, assuming you mean UART < 1307519941 726732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be kind of sad if the Reduceron required a high-end board. < 1307519949 726618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's generated code, but I presume the design is probably simply that complex. < 1307519956 752849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want USRT it would be more complicated < 1307519975 847982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know nothing of serial ports TBH, I just know that they're meant to be simple to program with :P < 1307520004 391279 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`/win 2 < 1307520007 780505 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307520023 292784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no idea how many gates it would use. You would have to test synthesise it for the model in question < 1307520035 214461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I do that without buying anything? :-P < 1307520189 613787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unsure < 1307520219 102192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling it would be easier just to rob the high-end kits from a university. < 1307520225 578611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway programming FPGAs is *nothing* like writing a normal program < 1307520256 884510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely different paradigm from any other sort of programming < 1307520261 152625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware, but then I learned functional programming after a lifetime of imperative languages too. < 1307520278 76236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway there is always that thing ais is working on. :p < 1307520287 882247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I plan to play with York Lava which looks cool too.) < 1307520318 910052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, best way to describe VHDL would perhaps be as writing event driven code using imperative style in the time domain or something like that. < 1307520350 246266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, basically it is better to approach it as electronics engineering rather than as programming < 1307520375 768065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is great 'cuz I know no EE at all. < 1307520382 392706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But event-driven shit is something I'm relatively comfortable with. < 1307520389 365219 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :circuitry is very different - you can parallelize it as much as you want for starters < 1307520403 528663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is *easier* to make it parallel than serial even < 1307520415 962919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, doing stuff in a serial order is *hard* in vhdl < 1307520461 623333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need to do some sort of flip-flop to keep track of which state you are in. That is probably a screenful of code alone. < 1307520480 185247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and you need to take care of the clock signal in most places. < 1307520501 521574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNLESS I MAKE EVERYTHING CLOCKLESS. < 1307520515 942181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You should look at the Reduceron's VHDL file, it's hilarious. < 1307520528 271395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ghdl + gtkwave might be a good way to learn the basics, by simulating < 1307520556 463159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22274 : and2 port map (w22274_0,w74_0,w228_0); < 1307520556 625793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22254 : or2 port map (w22254_0,w22255_0,w22274_0); < 1307520556 625879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22250 : or2 port map (w22250_0,w22251_0,w22254_0); < 1307520556 625924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c83 : or2 port map (w83_0,w84_0,w22250_0); < 1307520556 625973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22276 : inv port map (w22276_0,w138_0); < 1307520556 963299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22277 : inv port map (w22277_0,w151_0); < 1307520558 964581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22275 : and2 port map (w22275_0,w22276_0,w22277_0); < 1307520559 655212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : UNLESS I MAKE EVERYTHING CLOCKLESS. <-- uh. 1) damn hard 2) Most FPGAs are based on a clocked design, so it won't work well 3) damn hard < 1307520560 963918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c82 : and2 port map (w82_0,w83_0,w22275_0); < 1307520565 146551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22280 : or2 port map (w22280_0,w1670_0,w1689_0); < 1307520567 38380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22282 : or2 port map (w22282_0,w68_0,w202_0); < 1307520568 968540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22281 : or2 port map (w22281_0,w1708_0,w22282_0); < 1307520570 965977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22279 : or2 port map (w22279_0,w22280_0,w22281_0); < 1307520572 669883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, looks normal apart from the generated names < 1307520572 973700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :c22285 : or2 port map (w22285_0,w208_0,w1536_0); < 1307520575 29672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quality code < 1307520581 409119 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1307520583 685983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's thousands of lines of that < 1307520593 591059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file is literally almost fifty thousand lines long < 1307520603 882652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is in an architecture joining components right? < 1307520606 79592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :before that there's a lot of < 1307520607 438349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c21952: label is "0"; < 1307520607 603985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c21948: label is "0"; < 1307520607 604072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c21965: label is "0"; < 1307520607 604119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c21961: label is "0"; < 1307520607 604165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c21976: label is "0"; < 1307520608 942156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c21984: label is "0"; < 1307520611 91288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c21992: label is "0"; < 1307520612 362618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh wtf < 1307520612 978014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c22000: label is "0"; < 1307520615 97536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :attribute INIT of c22008: label is "0"; < 1307520616 533284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the start there's a lot of < 1307520618 28219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no idea what that means < 1307520618 531887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22412_0, < 1307520620 529562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22418_0, < 1307520621 965785 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice spam < 1307520624 717655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22419_0, < 1307520626 560149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22417_0, < 1307520628 263786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link the file? < 1307520628 535978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22421_0, < 1307520630 544588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22422_0, < 1307520632 538486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22420_0, < 1307520634 645635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22416_0, < 1307520635 181308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to check it < 1307520636 539648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22411_0, < 1307520638 645604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22410_0, < 1307520639 642306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes yes < 1307520640 540150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22405_0, < 1307520642 538535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w48_0, < 1307520644 537941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w41_0, < 1307520645 418026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :op! < 1307520646 637337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w40_0, < 1307520648 760305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w39_0, < 1307520648 923279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop the spam < 1307520650 192208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on < 1307520650 694602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yw < 1307520654 559809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Tried to sprunge it but then I just realised it's a meg big < 1307520656 558029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shut up < 1307520658 669880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link it? < 1307520662 688753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't paste that much >_> < 1307520663 16422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1307520666 314447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you get it from < 1307520668 997537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/reduceron.tar.gz < 1307520671 616976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fpga/Reduceron/Reduceron.vhd < 1307520673 237402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what you want < 1307520683 921415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, that is in an architecture joining components right? < 1307520685 762021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this mean? < 1307520693 568421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Reduceron is described in York Lava, not VHDL < 1307520698 171300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :York Lava just compiles to VHDL < 1307520704 211037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(York Lava is a Haskell library) < 1307520709 252440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha < 1307520712 220715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha? < 1307520719 112823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *crashed* kate < 1307520723 594455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1307520735 131563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I tried to scroll < 1307520736 646758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For a brief introduction to York Lava, see YorkLava.txt in http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/york-lava.tar.gz.) < 1307520769 308376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1307520773 793856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is all one entity?? < 1307520787 489618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay that is no normal vhdl. < 1307520798 365331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's. Generated. Code. < 1307520805 135623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many times do I have to say this. < 1307520817 138537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but where the fuck is the non-structural definitions < 1307520823 987583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would there be any? < 1307520836 261575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because somewhere there has to be, or there is nothing to synthesise < 1307520844 578694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, do you mean a "top level"? < 1307520848 128591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See extra/. < 1307520852 4435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :README.txt and top.vhd. < 1307520863 277167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the fpga/Reduceron/Reduceron.vhd file *is* the top level as far as I can tell < 1307520867 365781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See extra/. < 1307520871 166989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just joins together other components yeah < 1307520873 334251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top-level .vhd and .ucf files that basically connect the reduceron to < 1307520873 496910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LEDs and switches on the XUPV5 board (also known as ML509). < 1307520890 476145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would suggest that fpga/Reduceron/Reduceron.vhd is the top level one yeah < 1307520913 709251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that answer your question about "where are the non-structural definitions"? < 1307520921 865164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm top.vhd isn't it < 1307520951 105130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has to be; that's all there is. < 1307520953 36938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1307520967 913385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you _sure_ it's not top.vhd? < 1307520996 773891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, structural architectures is basically a way to join together many behavioural architectures. Like saying "place component foo and bar, and connect foo.out2 to bar.in1" or such < 1307521025 82092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, it is joining together all those w560_0 things < 1307521030 789460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem here is that "architecture structural of Reduceron is" < 1307521031 937981 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-185-136.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307521054 215385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1307521117 204162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean there is process in the top.vhd file < 1307521134 114416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure structural architectures can't do more than you're thinking? < 1307521135 210033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :w22497_0 : std_logic; < 1307521159 899771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, could be. Actually they are freetext names. There are conventions though. < 1307521174 619608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and this doesn't seem to follow those conventions for names. < 1307521185 167894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's generated code. < 1307521185 527441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : red_instance : Reduceron < 1307521185 689838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : port map ( < 1307521185 689919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : finish => fin, < 1307521185 689965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : result1 => result(0), < 1307521185 978922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : result2 => result(1), < 1307521187 589494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : result3 => result(2), < 1307521189 692182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : result4 => result(3), < 1307521190 866228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes right < 1307521193 747798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's hand-written, obviously.) < 1307521200 454945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that looks like a structural one to me yes < 1307521201 556928 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-168-63.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1307521207 223117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1307521213 802576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is just I would expect a shitload of "begin process" in the generated one < 1307521213 973210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why's there nothing to synthesise? < 1307521227 798887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1307521241 64348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that York Lava is still based around signals and the like. < 1307521242 854480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because how else would you do a latch or a flip-flop < 1307521245 136130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not compiling Haskell to VHDL or anything. < 1307521265 113596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe look at YorkLava.txt in http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/york-lava.tar.gz to see its architecture. < 1307521277 804034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's short. < 1307521281 251796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ish. < 1307521287 488965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a wide overview. < 1307521321 31138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. But where are all the latches and so on! < 1307521334 578409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :library unisim; < 1307521334 741545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :use unisim.vcomponents.all; < 1307521334 741732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :use work.all; < 1307521335 571023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1307521341 308502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latches? Who needs 'em? < 1307521351 352485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, flip-flops though < 1307521377 52784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can they be simulated by anything lower-level in VHDL terms? :p < 1307521387 685461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, processes that is how you do them < 1307521398 895157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously there is another way, or the Reduceron wouldn't work. < 1307521407 468395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect use unisim.vcomponents.all; might be it perhaps < 1307521410 598358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, look at YorkLava.txt. It's pretty damn low-level at its core. < 1307521424 155691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xilinx.com/itp/3_1i/data/fise/xst/chap03/xst03007.htm < 1307521434 252507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a summary of unisim.vcomponents.all. I think. < 1307521451 161137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the Verilog code is consistently shorter and less noisy. < 1307521548 5170 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1307521575 38602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, everything is processes in verilog iirc < 1307521607 396108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway top.vhd contains a set of flip-flops I can tell < 1307521615 408147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (rising_edge(clock)) then < 1307521615 570525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : saved_switches <= switches; < 1307521616 892006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all < 1307521648 445142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucked up indentation in that file < 1307521759 896234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what, Lava uses two-valued logic? < 1307521777 468021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally in VHDL you have 7-valued logic., < 1307521779 610495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,// < 1307521781 430299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who says low and high are the only values of Bit? :P < 1307521789 37101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1307521796 546341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bit = < 1307521796 708958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Symbol { componentName :: String < 1307521796 709142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , numOutputs :: Int < 1307521797 546482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , parameters :: [Parameter] < 1307521799 728141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , inputs :: [Bit] < 1307521801 562621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , instanceRef :: IORef (Maybe InstanceId) < 1307521803 583071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , outputNumber :: OutputNumber < 1307521805 539945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , outputSignal :: Signal < 1307521806 478533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1307521807 546405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1307521809 536702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S TOTALLY A BIT YO < 1307521811 724793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's symbolic, obviously :P) < 1307521813 543099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- | Logic '0'. < 1307521815 611748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :low :: Bit < 1307521817 535485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :low = makeComponent "low" < 1307521819 533276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Inputs: -} [] < 1307521823 720589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Outputs: -} 1 < 1307521825 593213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Simulate: -} (\[] -> [repeat False]) < 1307521827 652734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Params: -} [] < 1307521829 526548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Continue: -} (\[o] -> o) < 1307521830 270916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can it be high impedance? < 1307521831 525696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- | Logic '1'. < 1307521833 522848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :high :: Bit < 1307521835 521977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :high = makeComponent "high" < 1307521837 572639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Inputs: -} [] < 1307521839 715699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Outputs: -} 1 < 1307521841 519167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Simulate: -} (\[] -> [repeat True]) < 1307521843 517183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Params: -} [] < 1307521845 519067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Continue: -} (\[o] -> o) < 1307521847 548681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logic2 :: String -> (Bool -> Bool -> Bool) -> (Bit, Bit) -> Bit < 1307521848 592916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1307521849 658452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logic2 name f (a, b) = < 1307521853 519661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : makeComponent name < 1307521854 742878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam < 1307521855 519346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Inputs: -} [a, b] < 1307521855 901845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on < 1307521857 548910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Outputs: -} 1 < 1307521859 543132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Simulate: -} (\[a, b] -> [zipWith f a b]) < 1307521861 648310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Params: -} [] < 1307521863 522680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- Continue: -} (\[o] -> o) < 1307521865 526463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Dunno :P < 1307521867 525949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What. < 1307521869 524747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's helpful spam. < 1307521871 583024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1307521899 984273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I just record forever as my stupidity that I didn't realise x+y = (x^y) | ((x&y) << 1) until really recently. < 1307521929 331153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for signed integers?! < 1307521961 726976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ... < 1307521980 908386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm wondering what you are talking about here < 1307521991 413862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsigned, obviously. < 1307521994 529973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307522001 459816 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o < 1307522017 295303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR is just addition without carry, AND gives you the locations of all the bits where there would be a carry. < 1307522031 250130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that the next digit needs setting, so you shift it one and OR it in. < 1307522032 910031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait something must be wrong, why don't we all use that instead of complex carry forwarding networks. < 1307522045 68056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cuz that's probably slow? < 1307522053 798614 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't *look* slow to me < 1307522059 332749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe it fails if there's a cascaded carry. < 1307522067 492006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it must do that. < 1307522072 45322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you suuuuuuuuuuuuure < 1307522094 911366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not 100% sure no. But it looks faster than ripple carry to me at least. < 1307522101 362428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> but adding is not a bitwise operator.[/color] < 1307522101 604895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :....but it is easy to implement in terms of bitwise operators, as long as you remember the truth table for the full adder. < 1307522102 269744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `but'Not in scope: `adding'Not in scope: `is'Not in scope: `b... < 1307522104 179823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT GOOGLE YOU ARE INCONCLUSIVE < 1307522117 669951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A full adder has three inputs: addend, augend and carry in and two outputs: < 1307522117 870921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum and carry out. Carry in is 0 for the rightmost bit. Make a truth < 1307522117 871026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :table and note that the exclusive or is very useful." < 1307522123 13643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP BEING A FUCKING SOCRATES TELL ME THE ANSWER < 1307522140 678264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1307522141 409780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1307522141 797001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Addition can be viewed as a sequence of bitwise operations. < 1307522141 959731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exclusive or-ing the addend and augend yields all of the partial < 1307522141 959920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum bits; while and-ing the addend and augend yields all of the < 1307522141 960028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry bits. Shift the carry bits left one position. < 1307522143 795237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put the partial sum in the addend. < 1307522145 731885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there are no 1's in the carry bits, then you're done and the < 1307522147 793780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :result of the addition is in the addend. < 1307522149 871412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise put the carry bits in the augend and repeat. < 1307522153 788791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So mine is actually just one step in a loop. < 1307522157 827475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1307522167 831784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I said it wouldn't work like that :P < 1307522186 8630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this explains why we use complex full adders and carry and so on instead < 1307522198 280461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what I don't get is why people don't use double adders or such lined up < 1307522204 642422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :double the speed < 1307522214 195608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Lava> synthesiseHalfAdd < 1307522214 358620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Creating directory 'HalfAdd/' < 1307522215 693272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Writing to 'HalfAdd/HalfAdd.vhd' < 1307522217 702247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Done. < 1307522219 857030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI-TEQUE < 1307522222 645153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not quite, but close I think. < 1307522230 721852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was a joke but okay < 1307522239 998944 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307522244 129087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man type level naturals < 1307522247 678587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS NOT THE BEST ABOUT THIS < 1307522255 514531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in circuitry you can trade speed for time to a large degree. < 1307522256 879218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1307522259 439525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed for space* < 1307522260 969805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1307522270 290151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function 'vat' indexes a vector. < 1307522270 453292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Lava> (13 :: Word N4) `vat` n2 < 1307522270 453476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : low < 1307522270 453587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A static type error is given if the index is out of bounds. < 1307522272 905179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL LAH DE DAH < 1307522291 944127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could in *theory* do a 32-bit adder as a 2-level network of and and or gates for each output < 1307522299 663486 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust anti_slowpoke_stolen_from_Deewiants +++(>)*8(>[++[-]]+)*21 < 1307522306 648775 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for CakeProphet_anti_slowpoke_stolen_from_Deewiants: 18.1 < 1307522309 263020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the required space however would be stupidly large < 1307522357 108374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : A static type error is given if the index is out of bounds. <-- how is this different from vhdl? Array indexing going out of bounds would likely fail at synthesis < 1307522365 615207 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all Dewiant had to do was change his initial + to +++ to get a perfect score against slowpoke. :D < 1307522366 632456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it's at Haskell type-check time. < 1307522374 672672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Haskell runtime is when the VHDL is output.) < 1307522382 877950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr Fancy type-level natural shit. < 1307522418 145971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# OPTIONS_GHC -fglasgow-exts -XUndecidableInstances -fcontext-stack=1024 #-} < 1307522420 183889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always a good sign. < 1307522432 942001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh btw vhdl synthesis is slow. I worked on systems with dual core 2 quads at university when I did that. For the basic stuff I did then it still took like half a minute < 1307522441 487477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Eurgh. < 1307522448 501236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, expect synthesising redueron to be an over-nighter at least < 1307522464 535926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is why you do simulation :P < 1307522474 506378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xilinx provides a cool utility called Data2MEM. Given a bit-file, < 1307522474 731285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this utility can change the initial contents of a specified set of < 1307522474 893883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :block RAMs. This allows us to change the program in the Reduceron's < 1307522474 893979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :code memory without having to resynthesise, which would take ages. < 1307522486 663035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1307522491 677066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, overnighter at least :P < 1307522492 512605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :York Lava provides the following constructs for writing behavioural < 1307522492 675351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :descriptions. < 1307522493 574886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah no way, slowpoke vs slowpoke = tie < 1307522498 35927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the important part < 1307522499 705457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No shit sherlock < 1307522508 621493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, of course a program ties against itself < 1307522540 256667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : newMult :: N n => New (Mult n) < 1307522540 419073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : newMult = return Mult `ap` newReg `ap` newReg `ap` newReg < 1307522540 640917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : shiftAndAdd s = < 1307522540 803492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : While (s!b!val =/= 0) $ < 1307522540 803663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seq [ s!a <== s!a!val!shr < 1307522541 905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , s!b <== s!b!val!shl < 1307522544 734868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , s!b!val!vhead |> < 1307522546 796765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : s!result <== s!result!val + s!a!val < 1307522548 682114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , Tick < 1307522550 649193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ] < 1307522552 650782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : shr x = low +> vinit x < 1307522554 647974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : shl x = vtail x <+ low < 1307522556 714423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prettyyyyyyyyy < 1307522558 817571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ashamed of the spam < 1307522560 733300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was pretty < 1307522562 644806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you all had to see it < 1307522587 521769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I hope you like reading time graphs. Like these http://www.2lazy.nl/MartinsBlog/mpp_images/exp1_gtkwave.jpg (found by google image search) < 1307522599 638910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, generally that is what you get from simulation < 1307522608 283123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Doesn't it have serial emulation? :P < 1307522635 887095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, simulation for vhdl means writing a test program, that provides a set of input signals over time, then checking the output signals. < 1307522643 835626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT ALL THESE VIBES OF MINE YOU'RE HARSHING < 1307522646 899665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so simulation for vhdl is very much like unit testing. < 1307522648 685724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT THEM < 1307522652 865400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what < 1307522671 278033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Making plans isn't the same as being alive!" < 1307522676 991463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I don't know any vhdl simulation tool that lets you do interactive input to them < 1307522683 876930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :( < 1307522708 392839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, vhdl is very... enterprisy. < 1307522722 590217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKES A MAN WANT TO BECOME A RENEGADE AND USE VERILOG ALL HIS LIFE < 1307522728 621239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR, ALTERNATIVELY, STAB HIS EYES OUT < 1307522738 564184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no clue about verilog, but isn't it pretty similar < 1307522750 314889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESS WORDS < 1307522752 259486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also come on, vhdl has an ada/pascal like syntax. Who doesn't love that. < 1307522757 995985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYONE < 1307522769 238108 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude slowpoke is ridiculous. < 1307522777 574278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Reading the explanation of it? < 1307522802 113324 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff that's in the source code anyways < 1307522810 854101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's generated, don't bother < 1307522815 823795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I can't find any traces of the 7-valued logic in york lava. < 1307522821 879103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that will be "fun" then < 1307522822 144874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: btw the York Lava code for Reduceron is actually quite readable. < 1307522838 933361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulator/emu.c is still the most understandable bit of code though :P < 1307522846 380660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1307522858 38907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- | A time-varying binary signal is clasically a list of booleans. < 1307522858 242670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Signal = [Bool] < 1307522869 675866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep, york lava's Bit is 2-valued < 1307522873 102728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sad < 1307522881 251613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why's that sad :P < 1307522908 455734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because ieee.std_logic_1164 is a lot more useful in practise than vhdl's built in 2-valued logic < 1307522914 914429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why :P < 1307522922 282849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1164 < 1307522941 122442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it allows you to detect conflicting signals, like two strong drives on the same wire and what not < 1307522946 243152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well don't do that then. < 1307522956 634130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and you can do weak drive, very useful < 1307522959 619656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it's seven-valued but actually nine-valued. < 1307522962 504411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and high impedance of course < 1307522976 494847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1307522980 962637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, typo on my part then < 1307522986 674250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's called seven-valued, I think. < 1307522988 940470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was about a year ago I last used vhdl < 1307522990 341986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because two values don't count. < 1307522993 401108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uninitialised and don't care. < 1307522994 526596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1307522996 659188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. So stupid. < 1307523004 347315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't care is utterly useful < 1307523014 92876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeeeeees :P < 1307523014 844544 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for example < 1307523023 55361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lets say you want to drive a 7-segment display < 1307523039 14455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get the input on 4 wires, so BCD coding basically (same as binary in this interval) < 1307523042 83107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you wanted one of them to flicker on and off at random whims because "hey, I don't care". < 1307523043 735844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIGHT????? < 1307523065 928667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that means that some of the input combinations are not valid. Which means you can output whatever is easiest on those < 1307523075 837077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they never happen < 1307523081 66452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can simplify gates and so on < 1307523085 767629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh :P < 1307523094 234859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An impossible branch just trailing off to the edge of the circuit. < 1307523096 326243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so yes don't care is very useful < 1307523102 226206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The impossible happens => circuit catches fire < 1307523103 545231 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't understand how these programs know when to reverse their polarity without relying on any kind of temporary variable. < 1307523103 864168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SAVED GATES < 1307523116 284824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Nested branches. Lots and lots and lots of nested branches. < 1307523119 159103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of nested branches. < 1307523120 28099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tripwires. < 1307523120 789425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of nested branches. < 1307523124 302876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Read the ENTIRE strategy pages. < 1307523124 465747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, let me get a real example of this. I have it on a paper somewhere < 1307523127 624676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That INCLUDES all the program summaries. < 1307523129 868109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes found it < 1307523197 164169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first segment in a 7-segment display (the upper on on the left side) we can do this given the inputs A,B,C,D: C+A+BC+D'B' where ' is "invert previous symbol" < 1307523252 646346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice :P < 1307523254 887182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this gives the right outputs for 0-9, which is the valid domain. However, it will give strange results for the values not allowed. Basically don't care means that the compiler can optimise without regard to what the result of these undefined values will be < 1307523269 21405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which in this case hugely simplifies the logic < 1307523270 647645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you actually specify don't care there? < 1307523298 56813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well in the example I gave, I did it in the Karnaugh diagram I made on paper. I did this example for redstone logic, so no vhdl here < 1307523313 868869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does redstone have don't care? :P < 1307523352 304296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, but it doesn't matter. Because it is used so that I can assign that specific combination whatever value is easiest < 1307523354 843925 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :redstone, a robust model for circuitry < 1307523359 174592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, har. < 1307523362 537924 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol) < 1307523380 299063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnaugh_map < 1307523392 877846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean you did not actually write C+A+BC+D'B' < 1307523398 214545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a diagram with each input/output enumerated < 1307523398 664853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1307523423 480461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, then I try to encircle power of two sizes in the diagram. The larger area, the simpler the gate < 1307523437 392826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thus for don't care values I can encircle them *if* it would make the area greater. < 1307523449 52470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SO GLAD I LIVE IN THE WORLD OF HAPPY DIGITAL BINARY LOGIC. < 1307523451 156132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S SO FUCKING AWESOME. < 1307523472 8021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'ma ask ais if his ALGOL compiler outputs code with that fancy seven-valued stuff so I don't have to :P < 1307523484 172397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then spend two whole years coercing him out of his overly-legalistic mindset so that I can get a leaked copy. < 1307523492 445526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN ATTEMPTING TO UNDERSTAND VHDL < 1307523500 818321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, another case. Data bus. You definitely want the value Z there (high impedance) < 1307523513 330830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBVIOUSLY < 1307523547 305725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, you have to basically disconnect from sending to the data bus when you aren't sending < 1307523554 754451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is done by high impedance < 1307523569 967411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't, then you would drive it to zero or to one all the time. Not a good idea. < 1307523590 519312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, read the introduction to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-state_buffer < 1307523607 651675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-starter.html How shitty is this. < 1307523620 226597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ubercheap which is nice. < 1307523630 915478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have never used altera. But it looks like York lava is xlinix specific < 1307523640 44981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actually it's the most expensive Altera starter kit that isn't completely unaffordable. < 1307523649 472735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean ignoring things like "Cyclone IV GX Transceiver Starter Kit" which is just, what is that even. < 1307523662 404699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was just asking for opinions on the specs. < 1307523672 68289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find them on the page atm.. < 1307523724 623391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where is the spec for the actual FPGA found on that board < 1307523744 241471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean Cyclone III? < 1307523745 76783 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you just gave me the spec for the board itself < 1307523747 260490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something more specific? < 1307523750 912394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cyclone III EP3C25F324 FPGA" < 1307523752 915187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1307523754 369821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.altera.com/products/devices/cyclone3/cy3-index.jsp < 1307523760 232583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.altera.com/products/devices/cyclone3/overview/cy3-overview.html has model info. < 1307523780 942294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :24,624 logic elements it seems? < 1307523785 820954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1307523787 785274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is... piddly, isn't it. < 1307523793 909426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not enough for redueron no < 1307523799 691106 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :high impedence means you'll be overwritten by any other value, right? < 1307523802 883758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember 2000 was less than 1% < 1307523803 809372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the Reduceron papers said twenty-k was less than one percent of their capacity. < 1307523808 699602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was twenty-k < 1307523810 798246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not two-k < 1307523815 792756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I realise that I've no hope of running the Reduceron < 1307523823 749917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1307523824 518381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, err, more like *you* won't overwrite anyone else < 1307523825 232115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was two-k yeah < 1307523837 600102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But still, is that enough to ... do anything with? < 1307523840 104690 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the result if two signals conflict? < 1307523848 706955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ask ais on that < 1307523852 43543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, X < 1307523853 941788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gah :P < 1307523867 358562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make an FPGA catch fire with VHDL? Say yes. < 1307523883 600829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, possibly you could make it overheat if there isn't adequate cooling < 1307523910 193256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm 594 kilobits < 1307523913 495952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot of ram < 1307523938 706690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has megabytes doesn't it? < 1307523940 368698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just on the board. < 1307523955 646528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but that will be somewhat more annoying to access you see < 1307523962 710606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for a start it will be fixed to byte IO < 1307523990 705728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, likely they only provide the library of vhdl modules to access it in some more expensive edition < 1307524011 18958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm tempted to build my own little York Lava-esque thing where absolutely everything is done at the bit level :P < 1307524026 310214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thirty-two-bit word? Why, that's just thirty-two bits in a tuple. < 1307524027 130315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? But with 7-valued logic? < 1307524031 901590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO, NICE BINARY EVERYTHING < 1307524037 390780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BINARY LOVE HAPPY EVERYTHING NICE YUM HAPPINESS HUGS ALWAYS < 1307524037 737052 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :9-valued logic! < 1307524039 491664 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly more < 1307524041 589584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thirty-two-bit word? Why, that's just thirty-two bits in a tuple. <-- vhdl does this :P < 1307524060 811745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, not sure what more useful values you could add < 1307524062 1047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then byte IO to RAM is indeed inconvenient... it's eight times too much!!!!! < 1307524074 294156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh < 1307524111 358927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Quartus® II Web Edition (FPGA design software) < 1307524111 795583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ModelSim®-Altera Web Edition (FPGA simulation software from ModelSim) < 1307524113 135734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :web edition? < 1307524115 986114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web edition. < 1307524118 400403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the crap is that < 1307524120 11659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... sure is... promising... < 1307524125 636971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAVE THEY COME UP WITH THIS TIME < 1307524138 877836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, the thing is, the software is what they really charge you for < 1307524156 645267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the FGPA itself is relatively cheap compared to the software for developing < 1307524162 742635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Macs, except that nobody actually wants to use the software at all. < 1307524183 764637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do the synthesisers have a command-line interface? < 1307524192 646526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1307524196 46519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly if I can avoid creating a single "project" or "solution", it will not bother me in the slightest. < 1307524197 218769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1307524208 893622 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the barrier of entry on bfjoust is too steep now. So I think I'm going to not pursue that anymore and get some sleep. < 1307524217 235182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, let me check a project directory from xilinix stuff < 1307524235 124275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Is that... surrender I hear? < 1307524242 55360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were going to spend a week on this : ( < 1307524255 315156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Unfortunately Xilinix's site is a huge huge pain to navigate. < 1307524256 554184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this was from a lab at university: < 1307524258 230502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls < 1307524258 393288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :automake.log full_blink.cmd_log full_blink.lso full_blink.pad full_blink.syr full_blink.ucf _impact.cmd Project.dhp vsim.wlf < 1307524258 393460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :blinkers.dhp full_blink.data full_blink.mfd full_blink_pad.csv full_blink_tb.fdo full_blink.ucf.untf _impact.log __projnav _xmsgs < 1307524258 393563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :blinkers.ise full_blink.gyd full_blink.mod full_blink.pnx full_blink_tb.udo full_blink.vhd _ngo __projnav.log xst < 1307524260 232500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :blinkers.ise_ISE_Backup full_blink._hrpt full_blink.ngc full_blink.prj full_blink_tb.vhd full_blink.vm6 _pace.ucf tmperr.err < 1307524263 238443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :full_blink.bld full_blink.jed full_blink.ngd full_blink.rpt full_blink.tim full_blink.xml pepExtractor.prj transcript < 1307524266 242549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :full_blink_build.xml full_blink.lfp full_blink.ngr full_blink.stx full_blink._trpt half_blink.vhd prjname.lso work < 1307524266 423201 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm not good at programming in brainfuck, and I definitely wouldn't know code to generate if I tried that. < 1307524269 247356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for the spam) < 1307524282 923093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: BF Joust is nothing like BF programming really < 1307524283 598454 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :.win 17 < 1307524285 685236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Like, I literally yelled at the computer trying to navigate the site. < 1307524286 623897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a number of those are directories :P < 1307524289 812432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple times. < 1307524303 356920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It _refuses_ to answer the question "what starter kits do you have?". < 1307524304 770079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm a bit scared about "automake.log" < 1307524312 39694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It _refuses_ to give a flat list of all kits that are available with the prices on the same page. < 1307524312 396282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is empty though < 1307524315 817472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the _worst site ever_. < 1307524388 667824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1307524404 604669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, this is the worst website: http://www.angelfire.com/super/badwebs/ < 1307524426 190762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this site is way too preachy < 1307524428 662732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :F- < 1307524445 97583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically this guy is jealous of everyone's web pages for looking far more cool than his which are probably all boring < 1307524453 293037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Misspelled werds and impropr punktuation, make yur web look amaturish, and unfinishd. Awlays run a spel chek befor yu uplode!!!!!! : )" < 1307524456 362135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT A FUKEN HYPOCRITES < 1307524469 525616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I hope this is a case of Poe's law < 1307524478 751803 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1307524479 978225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whoosh < 1307524486 96934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs Vorpal a bit. < 1307524488 713510 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a deliberately bad web page about bad web pages is... < 1307524493 81710 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :?_? < 1307524494 478586 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fake????? < 1307524495 9533 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1307524499 583441 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :never saw it coming < 1307524510 839352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a strong drive on the bit in "stabs a bit" < 1307524516 108090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah, X! < 1307524546 968377 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: http://www.dokimos.org/ajff/ < 1307524551 923127 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a document somewhere that explains all the interactions betweeen states in 9 state logic? < 1307524563 572264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: god i love this one < 1307524567 942143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, a text book perhaps < 1307524572 56007 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably lol < 1307524580 744786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the front page is way better than all the others < 1307524586 600601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, anyway you generally don't mix them randomly < 1307524604 970185 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't imagine you would < 1307524655 132912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, for a start Z only makes sense for an output. < 1307524666 406529 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :war on drugs -> cryptography?? http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/07/weed-as-surprise-driver-for-mass-cryptoproficiency/ < 1307524726 948966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :war on cryptography -> drugs! < 1307524735 792310 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1307524735 966283 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1307524736 128633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cryptography on drugs -> war! < 1307524736 291326 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /´\ < 1307524741 610164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :war cryptography -> drugs on! < 1307524742 453737 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god text penis < 1307524749 589921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on! war -> drugs cryptography < 1307524791 968629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I can't imagine you would like to program for FPGAs. < 1307524805 677717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is far too low level < 1307524814 427409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its declarative < 1307524816 781554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hey i wrote a bootloader < 1307524820 445424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE YOU WRITTEN A BOOTLOADER ASSHOLE < 1307524822 185359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, vhdl and verilog makes asm seem high level < 1307524834 90736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS YOU HAVE NOT WRITTEN: A BOOTLOADER ASSHOLE < 1307524839 615157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in asm you do ADD r1,r2. In VHDL you write a page of code to do it < 1307524850 845708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for verilog < 1307524861 334957 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have a circuit for adding can't you just reuse it? < 1307524873 400451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, yes indeed, but that takes a page of code :P < 1307524884 309411 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you only have to do it once < 1307524887 831440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, besides, what about carry forwarding < 1307524891 618307 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-72.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307524899 682660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be annoying < 1307524908 584522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a ripple carry adder is pretty simple < 1307524923 838275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so you have to define addition so what < 1307524953 890251 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you define...division? < 1307524954 766619 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun dun < 1307524962 685620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingly hard likely < 1307524977 873870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: no. < 1307524985 884245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mathematical impossibility of division is why arithmetic never really caught on. < 1307524986 214170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well the main issue is making things sequential when you need it. Everything sequential essentially has to be written as a clocked finite state machine < 1307524994 691205 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :division sucks and dead < 1307524996 437198 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip maths < 1307524997 396972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not hard. < 1307525001 217178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have a global clock, woop pow done. < 1307525003 530161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, but it is verbose < 1307525008 893701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and of course you have a global clock < 1307525019 571215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do it clocklessly, anyway? < 1307525038 55202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well you can do that for purely combinatorial circuits. < 1307525051 577040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain :P < 1307525052 464834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean the crazy sort of advanced clockless? < 1307525061 960302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that clockless MIPS CPU? < 1307525064 672972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain both :P < 1307525090 604551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, combinatorial circuits: output = logical expression of inputs, no memory of previous state < 1307525104 840412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example. the 7-segment display. It doesn't have to keep track of previous state < 1307525111 227976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing that requires more than one step to express at all? < 1307525140 621330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pretty much. You can express any such expression as a 2-level network of and + or gates (plus inverters before sometimes) < 1307525152 17956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or nand-nor < 1307525156 978470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now what about the crazy sort of advanced clockless? :P < 1307525159 232839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, like, at a slower scale. < 1307525161 989379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clockless addition, say. < 1307525171 569119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it just have a local clock? < 1307525182 798023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well addition is clockless. Just wait for all the ripples to get through before reading the result. < 1307525189 609221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make your clock slow enough < 1307525194 111014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a FA is not clocked after all < 1307525202 667662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to take care of the gate delay < 1307525210 981977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that everything takes a finite time < 1307525220 21543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no clue how the super-advanced clockless CPUs work < 1307525223 227352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask ais about that < 1307525227 924472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAH < 1307525234 326531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The biggest disadvantage of the clockless CPU is that most CPU design tools assume a clocked CPU (i.e., a synchronous circuit). Many tools "enforce synchronous design practices".[4] Making a clockless CPU (designing an asynchronous circuit) involves modifying the design tools to handle clockless logic and doing extra testing to ensure the design avoids metastable problems. The group that designed the A < 1307525234 488788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MULET, for example, developed a tool called LARD to cope with the complex design of AMULET3. < 1307525241 344126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure does sound painful < 1307525259 781551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely < 1307525285 278310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :metastability would be an issue yes < 1307525300 344636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :clocked circuits nicely avoids that < 1307525303 209670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.async.caltech.edu/mips.html ;; this paper isn't gonna be fun to read i guess :D < 1307525328 569512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SEAforth multi-core processor (2008) from Charles H. Moore.[12] < 1307525328 732616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GA144[13] multi-core processor (2010) from Charles H. Moore. < 1307525330 402944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sna < 1307525331 139535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :p < 1307525333 702739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chuck is in town < 1307525339 589614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he ain't got no clocks < 1307525371 810813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1307525377 552290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Honeywell CPUs 6180 (1972)[7] and Series 60 Level 68 (1981)[8][9] upon which Multics ran asynchronously < 1307525378 171761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hawt < 1307525386 905761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1307525399 667819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WHAT IF YOU USED A SINE WAVE FOR A CLOCK LOL < 1307525416 287439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds stupid. < 1307525430 698527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1307525441 428521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you don't get a square wave in practise, only reasonably close < 1307525503 730036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reassuring < 1307525510 120919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1307525532 138276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, come on, you can't do instantaneous voltage changes in reality... < 1307525553 436557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying, electronics is a lot less of a comfortable discipline than programming :D < 1307525561 481135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well it's a square wave. ...sort of. physics kind of gets in the way." < 1307525567 227275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"uh, booleans. yeah. ours have 9 values..." < 1307525570 648092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, har < 1307525586 930339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh well um... not using a clock might make your electronics just sort of fuck up and oscillate around." < 1307525593 803740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but then that usually happens anyway." < 1307525597 186267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but yes. With vhdl and verilog you are working at a lower abstraction layer than when programming < 1307525598 418304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we don't really know how to do any of this." < 1307525602 811298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we're basically just bullshitting." < 1307525609 28958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello i am an electronics engineer and i suck." < 1307525611 651649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"elliott is awesome." < 1307525617 568897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh man i feel so good saying all these true things." < 1307525621 40077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1307525639 556332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :````It would have been better if images are included in the page < 1307525639 719004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--[[Talk:Fall time]] < 1307525640 818941 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307525715 162708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, just like haskell is a higher abstraction than asm, vhdl and verilog are on a lower level abstraction than asm. Of course both are still higher than EDA software... < 1307525732 76015 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDA? :O < 1307525742 316232 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this < 1307525748 678963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, EDA is kind of like "well, lets place some p-type silicon here, and then some ... < 1307525752 131709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1307525754 316546 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1307525761 87610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like fun < 1307525763 545562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually do that? < 1307525793 526423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes, when designing ASIC for example < 1307525803 109879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they tend to have module based systems < 1307525806 537851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, but surely Intel's Latest Fancy Processor isn't made by hand, right? :-P < 1307525822 708490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, probably not, but designs for gate modules used might well be < 1307525824 51066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man... wouldn't it be cool to see the source code to the i7?????? < 1307525856 681743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder who has less ugly designs from a maintenance point of view, amd or intel :P < 1307525871 745539 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i've read the memo 23 < 1307525903 124531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the FP parts are likely auto generated < 1307525907 186605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that seems to be what YorkLava.txt is < 1307525909 605249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and formally verified < 1307525910 645834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: FP? < 1307525913 671781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, floating point, right < 1307525916 472738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307525918 65160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well who cares about that. < 1307525953 665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1307525971 577305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, the York Lava specification of that simple stack machine is really pretty. < 1307525977 390687 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307525983 955434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicer than vhdl :P < 1307525994 287374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1307526011 519750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function 'simPoly' has almost the same type has 'eval', and it is < 1307526011 682075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :straightforward to define a correctness property for the processor. < 1307526011 682175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : prop_poly :: Expr -> Integer -> Bool < 1307526011 682221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : prop_poly e x = eval e x == wordToInt (simPoly e x) < 1307526012 668446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1307526017 198058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickCheck for hardware < 1307526034 307019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course york lava is not quite as general as vhdl. < 1307526047 698563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely there are things you can't do directly in york lava < 1307526061 814335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah but why would you want to. < 1307526077 706836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tri-state buffers looks like one case < 1307526084 223270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know, I know, "why would you want to create your own hardware anyway"...) < 1307526218 480654 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"America is in crisis, " the Republican governor says on a website promoting the event. "We have been besieged by financial debt terrorism, and a multitude of natural disasters." < 1307526218 829701 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1307526221 809666 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINANCIAL DEBT TERRORISM < 1307526227 391247 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word terrorism is quickly becoming meaningless < 1307526265 201014 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : haskell is shit!!! OMG IRC TERRORISM < 1307526332 736480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: that was... so rude of you to... impersonate me...... < 1307526335 418799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nick terrorism............. < 1307526341 699112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nick Terrorism, superhero < 1307526354 916181 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean supervillain < 1307526358 341100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Programming terrorism: the channel | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1307526359 456611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: no < 1307526361 776006 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307526367 805959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1307526372 575796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1307526374 628476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1307526375 421010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1307526376 224264 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIC terrorism < 1307526379 194668 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I am doing to you atm < 1307526380 552088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: he nicks terrorism < 1307526381 17484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1307526382 553416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he steals terrorism < 1307526383 593220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from societ < 1307526384 32395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1307526385 535446 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :accept my unsolicited IP packets < 1307526386 299458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and safely deposits it < 1307526387 988836 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh < 1307526388 151477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the TRASH < 1307526389 391677 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1307526391 793082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHH YEAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1307526396 449766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :S/ [DOLLAR SIGN]// < 1307526398 496886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/caps/not caps/ < 1307526411 655566 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-194-194.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/fb7188d8be002ece64870dffe9ec6fa7?s=32&d=identicon&r=PG < 1307526442 344905 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: F-lite implementation is interesting itself < 1307526457 456773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it is? < 1307526747 596056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it is? < 1307526936 843520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it is? < 1307526937 378961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it is? < 1307526937 609670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it is? < 1307526938 675030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it is? < 1307526938 984115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it is? < 1307526988 786308 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1307526995 642289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso? < 1307527208 418920 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's simple and can be used as an example when writing a minimal, lazy, functional language < 1307527243 107502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1307527272 545937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modules are awfully broken up < 1307527281 516903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is f-lite? < 1307527291 990975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1307527292 682032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :F-lite is a core subset of Haskell. Unlike GHC Core and Yhc Core, < 1307527292 844555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :F-lite has a concrete syntax. You can write F-lite programs in a < 1307527292 844653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :file, and pass them to the F-lite interpreter or compiler. Another < 1307527292 844699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to view F-lite is as a minimalist lazy functional language. < 1307527296 723403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a symbolic term-rewriting language < 1307527297 81613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307527299 334433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that compiles to the reduceron < 1307527305 214470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is the main programming language for it < 1307527315 610677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307527318 455779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually not quite a subset, since you omit data declarations < 1307527323 880829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so valid f-lite programs aren't necessarily valid haskell programs < 1307527325 497736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's untyped < 1307527326 663136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1307527589 255850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys what's a good abbreviation for root < 1307527592 287832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in square root, cube root, ... < 1307527595 270335 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rt < 1307527596 671224 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally < 1307527598 875027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :three letter < 1307527608 724000 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad < 1307527611 874501 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only a two letter one < 1307527630 810474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1307527633 41839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Rot is weird :P < 1307527633 513607 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rot sounds like rotate, rut doesn't sound like anything... < 1307527648 103084 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use root(a,b) = pow(a,1/b) < 1307527649 674869 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1307527652 144292 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then say pow < 1307527656 290903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, I guess I'll call it Root < 1307527677 481158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anything wrong with "root" < 1307527681 864926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it have to be 3 letters < 1307527691 906912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consistency :P < 1307527696 18383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data BinOp = Add | Sub | Mul | Div < 1307527696 180449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Exp | Root | Log | Mod < 1307527696 180525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Eq | Lt | Gt < 1307527696 180589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : deriving (Show) < 1307527697 349867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1307527710 169429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have three two letter ones < 1307527714 261612 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need root if you have pow < 1307527717 755283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so why not Rt as said above < 1307527731 724641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and what is this for < 1307527733 145079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah yeah :P < 1307527736 403361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I do, it's in the spec < 1307527738 485459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SyL < 1307527742 629617 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm OK then < 1307527743 314894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, esolang? < 1307527752 650954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I'm implementing it solely because I can call the result sylladex. < 1307528079 532540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1307528085 909266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "PRINT 9" is a statement, what would you call PRINT? < 1307528088 41784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people usually talk about like < 1307528090 464264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PRINT statement < 1307528092 461877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's ambiguous :/ < 1307528095 429852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PRINT < 1307528096 140731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :command? < 1307528096 968029 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command < 1307528113 241753 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :command, function, method, subprogram < 1307528121 549672 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :action < 1307528131 844491 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :word < 1307528151 62003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command should work, thanks < 1307528586 900391 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing? < 1307528749 122820 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307528811 900288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: syl < 1307529272 646104 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1307529342 477366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what < 1307529348 976765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh did you die of melatonin < 1307529351 599756 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The update < 1307529383 34930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right that < 1307529392 663032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking scratch pulled the fucking beta timeline bullshit < 1307529396 321772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1307529403 704290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also slick is very holy. < 1307529419 712137 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307529566 50592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I formed a hypotheses around the beginning of this update, the ending discarded it < 1307529980 688597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is n+0 -> n constant folding or dead code elimination? < 1307530243 637085 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction simplification < 1307530275 933966 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not constant folding unless n is constant < 1307530330 13207 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And DCE is for code that's never run, not code that does nothing < 1307530469 540004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: My "constant folding" pass does instruction simplification too, then :P < 1307530476 554928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's not all that unreasonable to interleave the two passes. < 1307530845 712929 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :syl? < 1307530855 237505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it's this semi-decent language. < 1307530860 717325 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :any spec? < 1307530919 744680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh i didn't write it < 1307530921 739528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on the esowiki < 1307530932 845439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hands off, i'm over-engineering implementing it >:| < 1307531783 168979 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-89-219.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1307531783 508005 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-89-219.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1307531783 671004 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1307531922 664496 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1307531922 900494 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1307531958 314938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-212.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" why not use root(a,b) = pow(a,1/b)" <<< how about Wop < 1307532038 812765 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-212.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 to the wopper of 2 < 1307532111 445617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307532434 559370 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1307532459 758551 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-212.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: i saw your bachelor's supervisor today and he was bragging about his finnish skills < 1307532539 314047 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-212.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :g2g ~> < 1307532551 354935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307532633 580973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- lt and gt can wait i am so fucking lazy < 1307532633 787014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- also all the others, fuck this shit < 1307533573 780990 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1307533610 234930 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1307533671 116076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe (Either Expr Value)... gross < 1307534300 111747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sylladex.Optimise> constFold (EBinOp Add EReadChar (EBinOp Add (EConst (VInt 0)) (EConst (VInt 0)))) < 1307534300 274807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EReadChar < 1307534304 434690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray. < 1307534309 211513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for EVEN MORE SPECIAL CASING. < 1307534347 350304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sylladex.Optimise> constFold (EBinOp Sub (EBinOp Add EReadChar (EConst (VInt 9))) (EConst (VInt 9))) < 1307534347 512320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBinOp Sub (EBinOp Add EReadChar (EConst (VInt 9))) (EConst (VInt 9)) < 1307534357 381062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This still needs some handling; re-arranging things is gonna be pretty ugly, though. < 1307535499 837429 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1307535614 227735 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1307536395 253460 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1307536825 832113 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.225.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307536860 85688 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaa < 1307536863 32170 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must code < 1307536871 603895 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a concrete idea what to code < 1307536878 60355 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and skills to code it < 1307536890 708839 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm procrastinating < 1307537038 548554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the idea < 1307537095 455300 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-140.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307537126 927273 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-185-136.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1307537357 652707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: WE DEMAND YOU TELL US < 1307537860 48150 :Kustas!~xix@gprs-inet-65-19.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1307538590 52061 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am forward thinking in that, after a thought, it is now the future. < 1307538641 990728 :Kustas_!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1307538750 684730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wat < 1307538788 535225 :Kustas!~xix@gprs-inet-65-19.elisa.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1307538789 762004 :Kustas_!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee NICK :Kustas < 1307539045 319484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307539150 20109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1307539150 739112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fpga < 1307539151 996864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i < 1307539153 416723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the < 1307539171 741628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: compare to the situation in which I thought in reverse. < 1307539182 12600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I need more words to work out what the sentence means < 1307539228 325791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fpga buy kit affordable but is usable i had links but now i don't in clipboard and the fpga and also which of duopoly has support better linux < 1307539232 532204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i and the < 1307539245 41467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1307539266 531104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1307539276 18655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think they both claim native support for Linux < 1307539287 142863 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: let a thought be a string X where blah blah blah blah blah time goes backwards when I think. < 1307539288 274570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xilinx's tools showed huge signs of running on Cygwin, when I tried them on Windows < 1307539291 210584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that doesn't mean it's any _good_ < 1307539294 377435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1307539306 824491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know we're using Altera tools at the moment, because we couldn't figure out the Xilinx stuff at all < 1307539310 294042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm basically asking which is more tolerable, but actually, Xilinx seem to be a lot more expensive than Altera < 1307539314 37728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for the evaluation boards < 1307539329 502175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Reduceron stuff was done with Xilinx, but that's basically academic since there's no way I could afford anything that could fit it < 1307539334 274552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's marketed at managers rather than programmers < 1307539344 21394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although being able to use York Lava would be a perk, and it compiles to Xilinx-specific VHDL < 1307539353 840354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(York Lava is the declarative Haskell library used to define the Reduceron) < 1307539363 907956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it uses two-valued logic exclusively :-----O) < 1307539421 655666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was also meaning to ask: how efficient is the code your ICA → VHDL compiler outputs? < 1307539448 122292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: possibly not as good as code generated by hand, but much the same order of magnitude < 1307539468 261859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from it doesn't do pipelining yet, but we may fix that at some point < 1307539484 639472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think York Lava may be similar; the actual basis of it is fairly direct mucking with signals, but it has a bunch of sequential stuff that probably generates less-than-ideal code < 1307539490 809742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what Lava is about < 1307539504 45869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, < 1307539504 792022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd get in trouble if I didn't < 1307539506 928534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of efficiency < 1307539510 210449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307539524 406943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Lava is just a really good language for expressing circuits designed by hand < 1307539532 561085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but there's also things like < 1307539538 905416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let instr = s!code!top in < 1307539539 67973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seq [ Tick < 1307539539 68076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , While (instr!isHALT!inv) $ < 1307539539 68120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seq [ isLIT instr |> s!rtop <== getLIT instr < 1307539539 68163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , isDUP instr |> s!stack!push (s!rtop!val) < 1307539539 404616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , isREV instr |> < 1307539539 868904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1307539541 514675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seq [ s!rtop <== s!stack!top < 1307539543 403866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , s!stack!pop < 1307539545 477265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1307539547 403887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is decidedly not at... < 1307539548 385971 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's tough, we don't get eruptions around here so I never have enough of the stuff < 1307539549 404876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh great time to drop connection < 1307539553 43344 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's so viscious and slow to propagate < 1307539570 424307 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu < 1307539573 752166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what ELSE Is viscous and slow to propagate?? < 1307539575 72306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right < 1307539576 96704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil. < 1307539583 435404 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :idgi < 1307539585 833568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307539588 649085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1307539592 808770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, Lava is just a really good language for expressing circuits designed by hand < 1307539592 971978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : yep, but there's also things like < 1307539592 972144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let instr = s!code!top in < 1307539592 972253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seq [ Tick < 1307539592 972359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , While (instr!isHALT!inv) $ < 1307539593 753140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seq [ isLIT instr |> s!rtop <== getLIT instr < 1307539595 421012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the remote host closed the connection, for no reason at al < 1307539595 751138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , isDUP instr |> s!stack!push (s!rtop!val) < 1307539597 747734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , isREV instr |> < 1307539599 750371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seq [ s!rtop <== s!stack!top < 1307539601 774998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , s!stack!pop < 1307539603 643421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is decidedly not at the level of the low level stuff < 1307539607 969454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no obvious good reason, anyway < 1307539610 11235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even VHDL < 1307539631 930445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still looks pretty low-level < 1307539647 210180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, but my understanding is that "While" and "Seq" are distinctly higher-level concepts than VHDL offers < 1307539712 738793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only marginally higher level < 1307539718 853389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq in particular is just wires in what I'm doing < 1307539740 461535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1307539743 813298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even while is just wires and one gate < 1307539759 118070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now the actually relevant question: how long is everyone who isn't you or someone else working on it gonna have to wait before we play with the compiler :-P < 1307539766 342182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VHDL scares me. :( ) < 1307539772 830954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a couple of years < 1307539781 263857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL SIT HERE UNTIL THEN < 1307539807 895636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've been doing fun things putting the equivalent of printf statements in the input to the compiler and having them actually work < 1307539815 673028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using the simulator debug API < 1307539832 679867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even making the program exit via an assert-false set to the maximum severity level < 1307539836 787194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stop bragging about your amazing compiler powers while I sit here with the prospect of hacking VHDL manually >:( < 1307539841 335403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maximum but one, you don't use the one above that unless things go wrong < 1307539850 78910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I send you Algol code and get VHDL code that you obviously hand-translated really quickly in response? :-P < 1307539858 314775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even set up a bot. I mean, with strong AI. To translate the code. < 1307539876 688460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oblig.: You could even release the source code to the bot's AI!) < 1307539954 9927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the compiler isn't really working properly yet < 1307539982 8585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even when we finish implementing what we've done so far, it'll be missing at least one important feature, and one massively important optimisation (which is about as fundamental to hardware programming as TCO is to functional programming) < 1307539984 445347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a (*b)() is the same as a (*b)(void) in C, right? even though (in C90) a b() and a b(void) aren't (as prototypes) < 1307539991 738507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which important feature? < 1307539996 861026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipelining < 1307540028 240758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, Vorpal told me to ask you about advanced clockless stuff, so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he really hates you < 1307540034 617785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, I think a(*b)() isn't quite the same as a(*b)(void) < 1307540048 866092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR it is; you can't have a function pointer to something of indeterminate arguments < 1307540054 671533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FPGAs aren't really designed for that < 1307540058 584212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to use a pointer to varargs or something else ~wAcKy~. < 1307540075 615063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get it working in theory, but you'd be wasting a large proportion of their circuitry < 1307540090 766812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and function pointer to something of indeterminate arguments is how it worked all the time prior to C89 < 1307540095 212364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even used some in a program I was working on < 1307540107 309760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I wanted a function that you could pass another function of the same type to as an argument < 1307540114 581077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeterminite arguments is obviously the only way to express that in C < 1307540140 433324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But IIRC you need to cast a function pointer into a () one < 1307540144 121270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which obviously means they're not compatible < 1307540149 599539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you don't < 1307540158 679917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, stackoverflow agrees < 1307540162 473859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually makes me believe it less, but < 1307540197 414676 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've been looking at cyclexa as inspiration for my own regular expression grammar, by the way. Looks very interesting. < 1307540203 318872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example: int (*b)() = global_variable; b(2.0f) calls b as if it expects a double < 1307540214 962518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and int (*b)(float) = global_variable; b(2.0f) calls b as if it expects a float < 1307540233 91246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm asking this as part of a ridiculously intentionally-overengineered SyL implementation, FWIW < 1307540237 100887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyL? < 1307540245 434251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's this fairly decent language on the wiki http://esolangs.org/wiki/SyL < 1307540252 671093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i picked it because it was high up in recent changes and not completely idiotic < 1307540257 417772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I didn't even think to ask what you were doing, I just assumed there was a reason and didn't care if there wasn't < 1307540262 808705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also because i can call the resulting implementation sylladex < 1307540267 902975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my motives are < 1307540268 991808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather flimsy < 1307540284 250239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, it'll be the most useful, optimising, flexible of a language you'll never ever want to use < 1307540285 141793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're good enough for #esoteric < 1307540302 461438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that page is uncategorised < 1307540307 807714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been forgetting to check that in the more recent languages < 1307540309 612743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: btw, Vorpal told me to ask you about advanced clockless stuff, so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he really hates you < 1307540319 698381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't categorise it, i'm too busy poking five thousand holes in the spec: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:SyL < 1307540325 595599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only said that ais was more likely to know about it than me < 1307540337 710311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Uncategorizedpages actually works < 1307540347 855999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should clear it out some day < 1307540446 547180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expected it to not work? < 1307540463 497853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a hundred and eighty six pages, it seems < 1307540477 148012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can reduce that by three by deleting the terrible articles: < 1307540484 875973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Prefix_notation < 1307540485 348482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Postfix_notation < 1307540487 69245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Surround_notation < 1307540489 909099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some are subpages of other things < 1307540490 304404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IIRC there's a fourth < 1307540493 180754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol surround notation < 1307540496 478548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Infix_notation < 1307540519 939297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no no, the esowiki is _totally_ the place for tehz to make articles about his weird, arbitrary distinctions between different aspects of notation that nobody else really agrees with < 1307540534 923777 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1307540535 85740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Infix notation is one of the 4 possible ways to describe a program." ;; makes less and less sense each time i read it < 1307540536 860858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correct term for that is circumfix... but "surround" makes it sound high quality, like good speakers. < 1307540545 668866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307540548 203374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx surround notation < 1307540550 93854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he forgot postcircumfix! < 1307540555 820620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :postumfix < 1307540584 200963 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also nullfix < 1307540604 511650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now do I compile the AST directly into the backend, or do I want to compile it to some kind of VM first... < 1307540631 180090 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: compile to a shell script that JITs < 1307540651 714728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307540652 780292 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT compiles a bytecode that is < 1307540660 235105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is a nullfix operator one that has to be the entire program if it's used at all? < 1307540660 710448 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one < 1307540685 313424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you mean the concept more commonly called an operand, but interpreted in a weird way? < 1307540689 952519 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that note, time to go get a drug test brb < 1307540734 472384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests brb < 1307540739 385789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't got a drug, though < 1307540745 124722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my results may not be what you're looking for < 1307540775 394793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, (somestruct){ ... } is C99, right? < 1307540789 327619 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i was thinking of haskell's f x notation :P < 1307540810 672047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307540819 41044 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the ever popular wontfix < 1307540819 459157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an infix operator, just the operator is zero characters long < 1307540834 976443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how does one actually do a union literal? < 1307540837 951417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how they work at all < 1307540885 409052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :union float_or_int {float f; int i;} /* ... */ (union float_or_int){.i = 4} < 1307540898 673010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have to use field syntax like that? < 1307540902 862530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 only, that syntax, but I don't think it works at all in C89 < 1307540919 403799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't need the (foo) if the union is a field of a struct, right? < 1307540921 318220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just do {...} < 1307540945 516933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a struct literal, yes < 1307541047 568400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, KDE < 1307541051 884482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1307541056 52438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd spent all this time complaining about an awkward default setting on my feed reader < 1307541060 435785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1307541066 483982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I realised it was KDE not Gnome and I'd never actually opened the settings dialog box < 1307541068 961837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, challenge: write a C expression that, given x, evaluates to negative one if the result is negative ("equal to EOF" is also acceptable), and the value otherwise < 1307541070 600834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it does what I want < 1307541071 548359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but x can only be evaluated once < 1307541072 822121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I want < 1307541080 502345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (getchar() == EOF) -one else getchar() < 1307541083 327659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as an expression < 1307541086 189308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without re-evaluating getchar() < 1307541116 764434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy enough if you can cheat and use GCC extensions < 1307541125 236642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1307541149 941890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :((getchar() - EOF ?: -1-EOF)+EOF) < 1307541166 15214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ?: takes three arguments in C89 and C99 < 1307541166 444154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1307541231 374842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was User:Uesr up to, btw? < 1307541234 385408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: spambot < 1307541237 800230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can find out but am worried it might be NSFW < 1307541240 759605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not < 1307541247 24872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you consider spam NSFW < 1307541253 718109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1307541255 383312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how pointless < 1307541263 596472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, even addition is a pain with this direct-translation scheme < 1307541266 951337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have probably blocked in addition to the userpage deletion < 1307541267 339522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely feelin' the VM vibes here < 1307541287 277786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't really want to use a stack vm, it feels like such a copout when I could do register allocation < 1307541323 442392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, wow this is going to be beautifully insane < 1307541330 418926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you have a reload pass more insane than gcc's? < 1307541359 346086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately, I don't know what a reload pass is < 1307541373 291926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can explain what it is simply enough < 1307541375 36052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I mentioned I'm planning a full FFI? :/ < 1307541386 169296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- TODO: constant-fold across [function -Ed] calls < 1307541390 28848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual comment in Optimise.hs < 1307541392 35014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way gcc and many other compilers work is, originally they assume an infinite number of registers < 1307541394 748196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sans the [] bit which I just added now < 1307541411 535765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then adapt the code to allow for the finite number of registers they have in practice < 1307541425 575777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SSA generally ends up naturally falling into an infinite-registers model) < 1307541441 247138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they do it by reassigning registers, reusing registers with dead values, and worst-case spilling to memory < 1307541448 245022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the reload pass < 1307541468 496515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1307541480 787264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they should take that to its logical conclusion, and eliminate memory entirely < 1307541482 600470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, everyone who understands how gcc's works has gone insane, or else recovered by refusing to speak of it ever again < 1307541496 770554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just treat all storage as part of the infinite domain of registers < 1307541503 272228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let the reload pass sort out the best place to put it < 1307541516 891267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this feels like a remarkably ais523 thought to have, which pleases me greatly < 1307541533 827708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, one of the main advantages we claim for our compiler is that it doesn't use centralised memory at all < 1307541548 463402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it needs memory that it can't store in a LUT's delay slot, it goes and makes a small amount of memory locally < 1307541550 356222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted a compiler that doesn't use centralised memory at all < 1307541562 625557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because memory bandwidth is the limiting factor nowadays, rather than actual storage capacity, for most programs < 1307541591 522551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have any opinion on how crappy/uncrappy this is? http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-starter.html < 1307541610 204285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :specs on the actual fpga model seem to be here http://www.altera.com/products/devices/cyclone3/overview/cy3-overview.html < 1307541638 914129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it has about a tenth of the logic elements that the Reduceron guys' FPGA has :P < 1307541662 667172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks /very/ small by FPGA standards < 1307541679 337643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have to go to a meeting < 1307541683 662714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1307541690 990954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, that's the highest-end starter kit they seem to have < 1307541699 649096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from ones which seem to be targeted at people doing weird non-generic stuff < 1307541706 498845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about "GX tranceivers" < 1307541757 145317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes, that has half the logic elements < 1307541761 911996 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1307541813 629681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, the person I'm meant to meet isn't there < 1307541835 421458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait for him to phone me < 1307541866 295950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK, the FPGA itself isn't all that small < 1307541876 634711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that the board isn't designed to allow access to its full capabilities at all easily < 1307541897 42850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1307541916 398939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll find that this is often the case < 1307541924 602484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, FPGAs nowadays tend not to have simple VHDL/Verilog interfaces < 1307541931 458344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1307541943 434151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you need to use some crazy design flow wizard thing that takes care of synthesizing a whole lot of crazy boilerplate automatically, more or less like firmware < 1307541956 484944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and custom VHDL or Verilog you have to plug into it via an FFI-type thing with crazy interfaces < 1307541960 847612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eurgh < 1307541968 918448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we figured out how to turn that off with the Altera tools, but not with the Xilinx tools < 1307541974 220942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the Altera toolchain just have a command-line synthesiser I can use and forget about the rest? :P < 1307542004 68665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather, the Xilinx tools, you could turn it off but then there was no obvious way to connect your program to anything, and I spent a week trying to work out how on the Xilinx website and failing) < 1307542023 906323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least Altera give pinouts for their board; how to actually tell them to the compiler is non-obvious but we worked it out eventually) < 1307542584 115525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1307542589 154604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stack machine or not to stack machine < 1307542959 989700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1307543298 397444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307543316 247170 :Kustas!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: appled into ipad < 1307543669 987667 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome seems to have decided to stop displaying favicons < 1307543875 885966 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the lexical analysis wiki < 1307543880 812351 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :article < 1307543907 456784 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mentions a program that makes lexica analyzers. I don't need to do that, right, it's easy to make my own? < 1307543946 629103 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1307543969 853101 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if there's something that makes lexers in Javascript, I might not bother to roll my own < 1307544068 203942 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia article continues to talk as though I shouldn't roll my own unless I have to < 1307544233 959819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is that VM you are working on? < 1307544267 606176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for syl < 1307544285 574865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would xilinx and altera do those insane boilerplate thingies you mentioned!? < 1307544299 70086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why does Windows do wizards? < 1307544387 660992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Hm. From what I remember it worked like this when I used xilinx stuff. You wrote your vhdl file. Then you told it which one was the top entity in the IDE and right clicked somewhere to get a file where you could map signals to pins. < 1307544395 489921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that was some old model < 1307544433 954307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still works, in both Altera and Xilinx, although the exact place to right-click can take us an hour to find sometimes and we keep forgetting < 1307544452 551477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with the Xilinx tools is that they gave no indication of what pin was connected to what on the evaluation board < 1307544452 714454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1307544487 652726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh okay. I think the board I used was a custom made one at the university. At least it looked like it was hand etched... < 1307544498 267885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not completely straight lines and so on) < 1307544525 135895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one frustrating issue with the Altera thing is that the pin assignments tools makes you pick the pin names from a drop-down list, you can't just type them in, which is really annoying as there are hundreds of pins and the names are no more than four characters long) < 1307544533 273276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hand-etched boards still tend to have straight lines < 1307544543 824495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major difference is that the boards tend to be white rather than green or blue if etched by hand < 1307544556 426630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the board was yellow < 1307544559 437991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1307544567 765617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen white ones < 1307544571 23375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the white boards look like if they've been sitting in an acid bath for an hour or so < 1307544573 334758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> (one frustrating issue with the Altera thing is that the pin assignments tools makes you pick the pin names from a drop-down list, you can't just type them in, which is really annoying as there are hundreds of pins and the names are no more than four characters long) < 1307544576 542561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is part of the process < 1307544577 416371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307544582 618974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they support kb completion? < 1307544586 54674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1307544591 31401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1307544591 784053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we tried that < 1307544596 243076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how awful < 1307544602 432610 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.225.198 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1307544614 357115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307544616 972984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we assume that the thing is backed by a text file somewhere so we could edit it by hand, but we never found the file; perhaps it's in a binary format instead < 1307544642 63242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for xilinx it is definitely a text file, though iirc they have a GUI drag-and-drop kind of thingy too < 1307544671 942945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, agreed < 1307544675 655732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we found the file in question for xilinx < 1307544697 52508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even open it from the GUI thingy by simply clicking somewhere iirc < 1307544706 385441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why don't they give you access to the pins in a straight-forward way? I don't get it. What is in it for them? < 1307544721 24261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incompetence < 1307544743 932711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's typical large program design < 1307544767 98990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, have you ever used Eclipse? imagine a program designed along similar lines, but getting all the details wrong < 1307544768 708359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, wronger < 1307544776 661694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, why do hand etched boards tend to be yellow/white rather than green or blue? < 1307544783 789786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different process < 1307544818 470253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, have you ever used Eclipse? imagine a program designed along similar lines, but getting all the details wrong <-- eclipse is rather annoying. The IDE for VxWorks 6.x and later is based on eclipse, and it is annoying to use. < 1307544825 511556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it probably uses different chemicals, or something < 1307544830 231440 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1307544836 533322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's the sort of thing I'm getting at, wrt Xilinx/Altera toolchains < 1307544843 772006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307544861 829355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are there any other FPGA companies? < 1307544880 371383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, happy IPv6 day, everyone! < 1307544885 843244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no major ones, as far as I know < 1307544889 448034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1307544891 415659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as elliott said, it's a duopoply < 1307544893 751314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*duopoly < 1307544905 584872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a real word? < 1307544913 730026 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1307544917 48372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1307544931 379383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I guess altera is better, if they provide pinouts. < 1307544940 95973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the pinouts hard to find? < 1307544963 299103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too bad, they're in the manula < 1307544964 840644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*manual < 1307544968 64520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307544974 231613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the evaluation board < 1307544983 151758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1307544996 103600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun < 1307545008 472474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how did you use it with the compiler < 1307545012 84397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be useful to know < 1307545026 526863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't set it up myself < 1307545028 500231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307545117 883844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I saw something about "web edition" of their IDE. What was that about? < 1307545122 146107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :altera's IDE that is < 1307545129 112325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that came with the board elliott was looking at < 1307545135 700969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1307545139 817514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly jusr means < 1307545143 780096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comes with no cdrom < 1307545148 18949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to give academic versions of the IDEs to universities for free < 1307545153 648907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you download the ide from teh interwebs < 1307545155 66915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, better check... < 1307545164 535777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Xilinx gave us a license for up to 50 unique MAC addresses < 1307545180 300463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i know that for a fact, it's stated elsewhere < 1307545210 668116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, this network isn't doing IPv6 < 1307545287 675287 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could also interpret function application in Haskell as being prefix, with the space not being a special operator but the function being the operator itself. < 1307545304 231500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that muddles operators and operands < 1307545330 483132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to ModelSim-Altera Starter Edition software, Altera offers ModelSim-Altera Edition with the following additional enhancements: < 1307545330 646171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : * 33 percent faster simulation performance < 1307545330 646364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Support for large FPGA designs with no line limitations < 1307545334 51994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :33% faster? < 1307545334 722345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1307545340 210915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a stupid "feature" < 1307545374 444985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm trying to remember if both Altera and Xilinx use ModelSim < 1307545376 866373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they cap the speed of the other one by 33% of what your processor can do or something like that < 1307545382 980457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, xilinx definitely does < 1307545391 146267 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really it's all relative to what is the object in question. A quoted string is circumfix if you go by quotes, but you could also say that the inner string leme itself is infix in relation to the quote lexemes < 1307545401 632729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# 10,000 executable line limitations" < 1307545402 696910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1307545403 663154 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/leme/lexeme < 1307545408 554189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ouch < 1307545410 223089 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I now want to define the word leme.. < 1307545413 850017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10,000 is nothing in VHDL < 1307545417 429882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in the starter edition that is < 1307545424 890876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I wonder if you could get around it by deleting all the newlines < 1307545431 191718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe < 1307545438 154257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's that arbitrary a restriction < 1307545496 350890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the web edition won't use more than one CPU core when synthesising it seems < 1307545509 35007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor will it do incremental compilation < 1307545510 261071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1307545534 887806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, yes, typically the operator is the thing in question. In the case of function application in Haskell I would say that the operator is prefix, because the function application isn't really a lexeme in itself. < 1307545535 839609 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to write an incremental compiler < 1307545564 257827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, make + multiple C files = incremental compilation at file level granularity < 1307545579 730654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it means the web edition simply forces a full recompilation every time < 1307545632 143033 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1307545665 898508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$2,995 USD for the cheapest non-free version. < 1307545668 297008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on... < 1307545703 531369 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1307545716 599703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is more expensive than the computer I'm using < 1307545825 293671 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dude it's perfectly reasonable. strings of machine isntructions encoded as bytes are valuable commodities. There's a very limited supply of it and high demand, so the price is high. BASIC ECONOMICS. < 1307545944 170063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hare < 1307545946 438520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :har* < 1307546015 230260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, in the world of radio frequency electronics simulation, at any one time there's only one program that everyone uses < 1307546023 610575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens is that it gets more expensive over time, as it's the only one available < 1307546041 281002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then someone else writes a program that's better, more featureful, and a tiny percentage of the price, then drives the incumbent out of business < 1307546059 305420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they're the only one available, and it gets more expensive over time... < 1307546071 958286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1307546076 509427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and stupid too < 1307546112 66695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the world of FPGAs, it's even worse, as it's hard to enter the market with the FPGA /manufacturers/ having a huge advantage in writing software < 1307546149 986920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso? < 1307546179 813576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because they don't release the specs required for you to figure out how to compile stuff to their products < 1307546183 970722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1307546184 782006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1307546200 39327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, they get to bundle software with hardware < 1307546227 422153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hardware with other hardware that needs specialised software < 1307546469 158598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about EDA? I guess it is about as bad there? < 1307546481 877353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't expand that acronym < 1307546488 502605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :electronic design automation < 1307546493 49245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ASICs and so on < 1307546501 101299 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1307546505 108855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, in that case I don't know < 1307546508 792938 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ZMGCMKM < 1307546521 29703 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you guys feel about ZMGCMKM? < 1307546596 518709 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1307546654 658228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, what is that one? < 1307546772 134691 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, Zesty Military-Guided Chickens Masturbating Kill Mode < 1307546798 353920 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the latest buzzword. < 1307546806 635231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1307546836 903519 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE LATEST. < 1307546865 19263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the buzzword feed /right here/ < 1307547149 40203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake TOPIC #esoteric :Redefining /Extreme/ Programming | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1307547360 593179 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make an esoteric software development methodology. < 1307547386 392700 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete with fancy diagrams < 1307547394 315259 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of arrows. < 1307548278 798753 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand lexing well enough at this point. < 1307548476 121485 :Kustas!~xix@194.150.65.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307548497 896976 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Parser_Flow.gif I thought compiler==translator < 1307548513 574516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if the former has more of a connotation of complexity than the latter < 1307548913 209153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say they're close enough in similarity to almost be the same thing. < 1307549259 117374 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1307549867 62298 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1307550199 417559 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307550207 404036 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net PART :#esoteric < 1307550262 608413 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1307552258 448726 :Kustas!~xix@194.150.65.51 QUIT :Quit: left forever < 1307552322 973351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i shot assembly < 1307552375 599759 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I freakin' figure out US tax law < 1307552632 571519 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conservapedia makes me laugh < 1307552652 744242 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an argument on a talk page's archive about whether autumn foliage is objectively beautiful < 1307552663 575397 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Counterexamples_to_Evolution/archive1#Some_Comments < 1307552667 179937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're a nasm scientist right < 1307552674 343723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: holy shit, I'm unblocked < 1307552822 533982 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm? < 1307552910 320385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: almost the entire world is blocked IP-wise (403) from Conservapedia < 1307552916 992117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least i can see it now, maybe they lifted it < 1307552919 50111 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1307552934 372937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: (Schlafly asked if there was a way he could just ban all non-USA IPs so he wouldn't have to deal with trolls) < 1307552947 738820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this... worked, but I gather a lot of US IPs are collateral damage) < 1307552959 509487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but evidently Conservapedia's five editors aren't affected < 1307553041 543693 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it have made more sense to just block non-US IPs from editing? < 1307553053 370398 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might require some sort of entry level programmer < 1307553090 937830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should non-US people be allowed to view the American encyclopedia? < 1307553093 532256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't matter. < 1307553101 308743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest, they're hardly even people. < 1307553106 447441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The annual rate of extinction of species far exceeds any plausible rate of generation of species. Expanding the amount of time for evolution to occur makes evolution even less likely." < 1307553125 872704 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :High extinction rate is a recent phenomenon as a result of massive human habitation.. < 1307553138 505872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetics are hard < 1307553140 865036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does nasm works < 1307553145 246801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does ... archaeology < 1307553159 360597 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, did you see the bit about "If there's a 5% chance of any one of these being true"? < 1307553165 250846 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes. < 1307553169 464933 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsimonious repetition of design elements throughout creation, e.g. the eye's appearance in remarkably different species. For such complex structures to arise repeatedly via evolution is impossible, as evolution is an inherently random and historically contingent process. < 1307553177 440998 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....what? that's an argument for evolution if anything. < 1307553241 302600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[SAssign varname (EConst (VInt 999)), < 1307553241 465448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SAssign varname (EBinOp Add (EVar varname) (EVar varname)), < 1307553241 465659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SIf (EVar varname) [SAssign varname (EConst (VInt 0))]] < 1307553248 684116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to hand-translate this to hypothetical bytecode < 1307553263 852004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pleiotropy, the fact that a change of a single gene can have several different effects, renders the "improvement" of animals by random mutation impossible, as any mutation with a potentially beneficial effect will be coupled with one or more other potentially lethal effects. < 1307553283 653848 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, you know, when the lethal mutations kill the organism and prevent inheritance, and the beneficial ones remain. < 1307553299 848550 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, keep reading them in order. There's a ... I want to call it a punchline, it's so ridiculous < 1307553306 148417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys, what's the best way to do a stack of floating point in xeightysix assembly < 1307553311 74489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just push fp values to the normal stack? < 1307553324 68031 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, um, just skip ahead *shrug* < 1307553338 100824 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :For evolution to be true, every male dog, cat, horse, elephant, giraffe, fish and bird had to have coincidentally evolved with a female alongside it (over billions of years) with fully evolved compatible reproductive parts and a desire to mate, otherwise the species couldn't keep going. < 1307553357 150557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, there's a definite line. One day, a baby is born and it just can't mate with anything of its species.. < 1307553426 780802 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307553427 935736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn2 understand speciation plz. < 1307553519 676120 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well, the pleiotropy argument states that beneficial mutations are impossible, because a change to any gene will cause more harm than good. < 1307553592 724675 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a fact? < 1307553601 822198 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1307553642 127303 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is the best so far: < 1307553645 687767 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutations cause a loss of information, rendering it mathematically impossible for mutations to advance the complexity of life. Similarly, entropy (disorder) increases over time, making it impossible for order to increase on its own. According to Cornell University geneticist John C. Sanford, not even the energy of the Sun, which might otherwise reduce entropy in a system not thermodynamically isolated such as the Earth, < 1307553763 373595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :poorly formulated information theory, mathematical assertions about complexity, thermodynamics, ecology, and Biblical apocalypse. There's even a smart guy as a source. < 1307553824 740325 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is such an entertaining read. < 1307553849 148345 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1307553899 674223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : For evolution to be true, every male dog, cat, horse, elephant, giraffe, fish and bird had to have coincidentally evolved with a female alongside it (over billions of years) with fully evolved compatible reproductive parts and a desire to mate, otherwise the species couldn't keep going. < 1307553900 853067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru luv < 1307553935 27360 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the things on that list seem like interesting, potentially valid arguments. Some of them seem like confused ravings. < 1307553977 383234 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, here's a potentially valid one: "Lack of genetic diversity among the Homo sapiens species. Were evolution and the old earth true, the human population would show a much larger genetic variance." < 1307553999 125048 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they've done some mathematical models that show that, if evolution is true, then there indeed must be more genetic variance than there actually is. < 1307554135 533504 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And here's a confused raving: "Evolution does not account for the immense amount of information in the genome, as well as the origin of the information-processing systems in the cell. Information always has a sender, who must be God in this case." < 1307554181 809149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm sorry that you deny beauty. < 1307554191 687728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will suffer for it for the rest of your pitiful heathen life. < 1307554203 452840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...beneficial mutations are impossible, because a change to any gene will cause more harm than good..." This seems nonsense. Even if this is the case there can be changes to multiple genes and this can cause beneficial. And even if one causes more harm than good, does it say the harm is significant? However, none of this means any of the stuff I said actually happens either. < 1307554237 739467 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also failed to account for quanglement. < 1307554246 128640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone always fails to account for quanglement < 1307554254 428523 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scientists have found proof that the first chicken came before the first egg,[40] consistent with a special creation of chickens but not with a gradual descent with modifications from a proto-chicken and proto-egg." < 1307554314 285199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? How old have chickens be? And how do you define what exactly counts as a first chicken or first egg, etc? < 1307554356 334079 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why did Conservapedia block everyone? < 1307554411 159503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, dealing with things greater than one machine word in assembly is a pain :( < 1307554479 712288 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have carry function? < 1307554484 308758 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: There's plenty of genetic diversity in humans. But more importantly, "genetic diversity" is not something you can just measure; it's a qualitive statement. Even more importantly, it is not required that all species exhibit genetic diversity for evolution to be a valid theory. < 1307554508 527735 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1307554556 669130 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you *can* measure genetic diversity, though, can't you? Grab some random people, perform some genetic tests on them, and see how diverse their genes are, compared to your mathematical model. < 1307554588 390906 :Kustas!~xix@194.150.65.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307554597 213871 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: hmm, well, yes. You can determine it that way. < 1307554609 74091 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :statistically. < 1307554616 669419 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1307554728 107932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you still have no metric for what is "very genetically diverse" and "not very genetically diverse", these are still fuzzy qualitive statements. You'd need to compare a number of different species, and perhaps compare between species. < 1307554749 677460 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you'd still probably need to assign some arbitrary scale to determine genetic diversity. < 1307554762 68291 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I have no idea what sort of analysis the people actually did, much less whether or not it was valid. < 1307554800 157016 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: an admirable defense nonetheless. :) < 1307554915 680404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, structuring this bytecode in haskell kind of sucks < 1307554920 822075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I want a map of labels to code < 1307554927 535671 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-194-194.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks cool: http://www.deliantra.net/screenshots.html < 1307554927 987593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's so ugly to use like arbitrary ints for the labels < 1307554936 790927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could include the relevant code directly but that would be a real pain for the code generators < 1307554973 595759 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I agree with this article that the law of thermodynamics necessarily implies slow ecological stagnation, which is an obvious precursor to the End Times. This assertion is in direct contradiction with the Fourth Law of Evolutionary Theory(tm) which states that "In order for the process of evolution to be true, everything must get better all of the time." < 1307555007 49369 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not refuting that, really. < 1307555009 290970 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1307555650 174856 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main problem with most of these arguments is that they attack strawmen assertions that evolutionary theory supposedly makes. < 1307555650 337626 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these assertions are actually just poorly worded ideas based on the principle of evolution that people make in a non-scientific context, and not the theory itself. < 1307555765 629908 :Kustas!~xix@194.150.65.15 QUIT :Quit: quitter < 1307555952 670208 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-140.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's actually a much more obvious rebuttle of that stupid thing. < 1307555965 449711 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-140.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Earth is not a closed system. < 1307556838 71730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a logical argument for privacy? (self.AskReddit) < 1307556840 206081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :REDDIT < 1307556897 146090 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1307556988 484648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, obviously there is < 1307556990 397213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :several, in fact < 1307556995 34924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if any will come up in the thread? < 1307557006 777998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't want to find out < 1307557023 758398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running out of justifications to not unsubscribe from /r/AskReddit to be quite honest < 1307557032 168850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The justifications are a huge long list of "I'm too lazy to".) < 1307557055 240905 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for illustration of this concept see: < 1307557062 641493 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat ("I'm too lazy to") < 1307557064 761883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["I'm too lazy to","I'm too lazy to","I'm too lazy to","I'm too lazy to","I... < 1307557103 166314 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot, expanding minds for a better tomorrow. < 1307557110 739253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm subscribed to the default set, but never (or incredibly rarely) visit the reddit homepage anyway so it doesn't matter < 1307557128 339315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never been to reddit. < 1307557128 505545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 500 $ repeat "I'm too lazy to" < 1307557129 417342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["I'm too lazy to","I'm too lazy to","I'm too lazy to","I'm too lazy to","I... < 1307557136 375324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, now it's a huge long list, rather than an infinite list < 1307557139 419438 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's reddit < 1307557140 47764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: at this point, I would recommend against the experience < 1307557150 605885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few decent subreddits, but outside of that... < 1307557158 952489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read proggit for the offtopic stuff < 1307557161 988607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ontopic stuff too, sometimes < 1307557169 116033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't /submit/ offtopic stuff, though, because I'm not a monster) < 1307557180 842120 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hmm? < 1307557197 608367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: keeping proggit ontopic is well known to be difficult, despite the attempts of the moderators < 1307557201 453900 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with proggit that you wouldn't submit ontopic stu... oh, you said offtopic < 1307557204 272803 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread you < 1307557204 679995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is guilty. < 1307557221 572664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In my... defence... I submitted it to proggit in a shameless karmawhoring attempt without thinking.) < 1307557226 434815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wait, that doesn't sound like a defence at all.) < 1307557237 94439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Propose we drop the subject.) < 1307557251 607823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, was that a snarky reference to this channel? :) < 1307557254 907669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1307557259 11555 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've karmawhored... by submitting an ontopic link to a subreddit < 1307557259 695291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at snarky references < 1307557271 162842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you subhuman :O < 1307557276 923215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you see a snarky reference coming from me, it's either really awful, crude, and obvious, or else unintentional < 1307557287 730892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or, maybe it's intentional and you are just THAT < 1307557288 165721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBTLE < 1307557292 377747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible. < 1307557295 915636 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could incorporate this into a pronunciation based language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplifix < 1307557299 834554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a new kind of operator. < 1307557322 262877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: part of the reason I tend to be so honest is that I'm pretty bad at lying < 1307557330 49525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, shm-reduplication shm-reduplication < 1307557348 490350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE < 1307557408 600109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think ais523 sees what i did there. < 1307557416 742950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's quite blind to what i did there < 1307557418 420793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I Don't < 1307557420 23547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't < 1307557432 351960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shm-reduplication may help :D < 1307557489 301364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's a rather specific thing to do < 1307557529 340251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be fun to parse in a programming language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfix < 1307557529 632838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SHM-REDUPLICATE "SHM-REDUPLICATION" YOURSELF < 1307557531 710839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU LAUGHING YET < 1307557547 818461 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle ("haha") --cue laughter < 1307557548 752140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... < 1307557559 400693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I actually did laugh at that < 1307557562 675496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at elliott's thing yet, though < 1307557571 525862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing shming < 1307557573 848527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo shmoo < 1307557576 982298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shm-reduplication shm-reduplication < 1307557581 798191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNNIEST THING < 1307557583 781320 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle "ha" -- better laughter < 1307557584 720544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... < 1307557594 800646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that laughter is just so much more... compact. < 1307557595 39399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely the second should either be shm-shm-reduplication or shmeduplication? < 1307557601 182615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you are spoiling it :( < 1307557608 422600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all 0 humour in it is now dead < 1307557610 44167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it wasn't funny to spoil in the first place < 1307557617 541339 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott shmelliott < 1307557626 221682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet ShmakeProphet < 1307557653 592847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :#shmesoteric | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1307557660 839442 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shmake, sounds like a make utility. < 1307557672 91516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a terrifying one < 1307557796 484020 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a?b:c would be kind of like transfix, but that doesn't really apply outside of human languages. < 1307557835 456355 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in transfix your interspersing the affix into the stem. Programming languages don't have that concept. a, b, and c do not collectively make a "stem" < 1307557899 533097 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.225.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307557922 603793 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the examples of infix in English: hizouse for house and shiznit for shit < 1307557936 335351 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fucking" and "bloody" are sometimes used as expletive infixes, as in "un-fucking-believable" or "abso-bloody-lutely" < 1307558102 767765 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-140.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1307558103 110875 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307558138 442665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A-whole-nother", in which another (an+other) is reanalyzed as a+nother. < 1307558149 346831 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what /the/ nother is. < 1307558223 841342 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i was afk < 1307558236 156387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :scarf < 1307558281 611402 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1307558307 972198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi scarf < 1307558350 319188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we were having a discussion about alternative nicks in #nethack < 1307558357 881943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a whole load of people changed to backup nicks for a bit, then back again < 1307558370 935533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does #nethack ever have anything worthwhile to discuss < 1307558405 943581 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: still playing Minecraft? or maybe You switched to Dwarf Fortress? < 1307558410 156715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if you consider NetHack worthwhile < 1307558414 28940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ontopic well above 50% < 1307558417 442396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Elliottcraft < 1307558422 876202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: better than us :D < 1307558449 53542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think we're off-topic less than you'd expect, in that, I suspect if we weren't offtopic, there would instead just be huge periods of silence < 1307558456 38676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things tend to happen in spurts in the esoteric world < 1307558471 709906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1307558491 104276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: (I still play Minecraft, but not much lately, but I won't much once Elliottcraft becomes more concrete :P) < 1307558496 806465 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1307558505 193867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you making a Minecraft clone-but-better? < 1307558515 32831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd imagine adding more concrete to a Minecraft-alike would be quite easy < 1307558532 428440 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :;];] < 1307558534 897937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I _might_ be. but actually, it takes a lot of inspiration from a lot of other things, and I'm trying to replace the central game mechanic/framing mechanism itself < 1307558541 813912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, fair enough < 1307558553 276101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just named as a Minecraft reference to confuse/attract people? < 1307558555 243892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as the blockworld itself goes, Dwarf Fortress is a better comparison, although it's presented in the Minecraft manner < 1307558568 255541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I needed a throwaway name while discussing it in #esoteric-minecraft :P < 1307558570 623372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(confusion and attraction form a pretty powerful combo in Pokémon, but it's not recommended to actually use it) < 1307558592 540138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be amusing to actually release it as Elliottcraft though, just to see how much I get yelled at < 1307558597 637502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU STOLE "-CRAFT" < 1307558621 940373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting your own name in the name of a product normally causes it to not do very well < 1307558623 617193 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hey, finnish person: is risto karvinen a real person? < 1307558635 234962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, maybe < 1307558643 906095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are many companies named after people that are very successful < 1307558647 889632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :named after their founders, that is < 1307558650 723612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if /I/ called something Elliottcraft, it would be fine because I'm not called Elliott < 1307558653 817320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risto_Karvinen < 1307558655 939860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: maybe < 1307558666 741397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I'll call it Alexiansmithcraft then < 1307558669 517230 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, that's where I started < 1307558670 944921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST NAME FOR ANYTHING??? < 1307558676 354605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's a crazy name < 1307558682 725759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus points for me because I misparsed it to start with < 1307558683 929148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, it doesn't even parse into your name for me < 1307558688 202673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for me either < 1307558691 428183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexian smithcraft??? what the hell is that < 1307558705 446239 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :like normal smithcraft but more alexian < 1307558706 816585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, really tempted to actually use that now < 1307558716 997257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my regard for popularity is astonishingly low :D < 1307558851 804074 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... finally back in linux now, I don't understand how I could ever use windows as my main OS < 1307558861 54462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: brr < 1307558863 701790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: do you want a hug < 1307558868 308434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know how scary it can be sometimes < 1307558874 94552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get kind of nervous even just booted into OS X < 1307558949 790130 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it conceptually simpler to have continuations accept a continuation but just ignore them, or to have them not accept a continuation? < 1307558972 94543 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in OSX you can just start X or a terminal and it starts behaving more like normal < 1307558979 772457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations don't take continuations. < 1307558991 334083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what would you apply them with?) < 1307559008 522587 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in windows if you happen to start cmd all that's left is to stab your eyes (and soul) out with the nearest blunt object < 1307559020 189720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :( < 1307559023 716007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: im sorry for your experience < 1307559023 949008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you could take an unapplied or thunked continuation, and give it as an argument to a continuation, without any real issues < 1307559029 13361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sometimes you can be in windows < 1307559031 164690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suddenly think < 1307559034 613681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i want to bring a terminal up- < 1307559037 135057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you have a panic attack < 1307559040 502778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I installed djgpp, just so that if I started cmd by mistake (or deliberately) it would work vaguely like a UNIX shell < 1307559041 424447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they find you dead two weeks later :( < 1307559044 516355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix withdrawal < 1307559065 971455 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I used windows I had Cygwin. < 1307559072 493964 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was kind of like having bash. kind of. < 1307559078 72796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin doesn't hijack cmd, does it? < 1307559081 831486 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1307559087 680418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that I mostly only used cmd to start bash /anyway/, but...) < 1307559093 563934 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs in its own little environment, but you can manipulate the entire file system with it < 1307559096 17279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd is a terrible terminal, though < 1307559114 878534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin has the unfortunate thing that it sucks < 1307559134 773079 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. < 1307559144 298379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fork() call is slower than making a cup of coffee < 1307559147 775190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP doesn't suck, but is an insane premise in the first place < 1307559152 863473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its unicode support is just... blegh < 1307559156 93418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :improved as of recent versions but < 1307559156 783974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and doesn't implement fork) < 1307559164 32375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and setup.exe is the worst excuse for a package manager ever just... augh < 1307559168 871437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally painful experience to use < 1307559172 813459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Cygwin's implementation is not the fact that it has a slow fork < 1307559175 399006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact that it uses it < 1307559176 35262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, djgpp has no sh, right? < 1307559179 527876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has bash < 1307559181 282315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it have a manually-supported sh? < 1307559182 701075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1307559183 882128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it have a manually-ported sh? < 1307559185 490798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to not use fork < 1307559186 133543 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have an entire /bin and everything in windows magically? How do you run and use bash effectively in Windows? < 1307559188 951635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's manually ported < 1307559192 823013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1307559195 473313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't do things that would require multiple processes to run at once < 1307559203 343592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's really hard; I tried to get a native environment up once < 1307559204 653614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr: < 1307559212 572486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :either use djgpp for dos < 1307559213 318532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1307559216 822471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/pclouds/busybox-w32 < 1307559219 416397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you do indeed have an entire /bin, attempts to access something in /usr/bin or /bin will rewrite the path into a directory that actually exists < 1307559221 429305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a wonderful native port of busybox < 1307559222 810912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for windows < 1307559240 505251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... I have a solution to this problem. < 1307559242 791877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the reason I keep writing the wrong directory in shebang lines < 1307559244 773890 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :continue not using windows. < 1307559250 150268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in DJGPP, it doesn't actually matter what you put there < 1307559260 761240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's a directory you might vaguely expect to find binaries in < 1307559270 344538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/perl means the same thing as #!/usr/bin/perl, and probably the same thing as #!/sbin/perl < 1307559294 82779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/etc/perl < 1307559301 924315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : augh < 1307559341 895628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the reaction that makes people spit coffee onto their keyboards? I just did that, except I wasn't drinking anything so the computer is fine < 1307559354 903296 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell which can of Coke is cold delicious soda and which is empty by APPEARANCE ALONE < 1307559360 45190 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds this to his list of super powers. < 1307559391 533980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: except Coca-Cola isn't a sort of soda < 1307559393 388931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I confused? < 1307559398 688085 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's open and you're not currently drinking from it, then it's empty < 1307559404 337835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this was a subtle joke on /etc/rmt right? < 1307559404 640805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or do you fill empty coke cans with lemonade to confuse people?) < 1307559409 242066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. < 1307559414 371339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh < 1307559418 755281 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :one standard can holds about one sip of drink, IME < 1307559419 556646 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, I think you're confused. < 1307559422 232372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet: except Coca-Cola isn't a sort of soda < 1307559424 656205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, how isn't it? < 1307559430 703804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually wondering if it's a language barrier thing < 1307559432 217670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://sprunge.us/BFcR < 1307559433 734682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :soda = pop = even coke in the southern us < 1307559434 973532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite interesting < 1307559437 97898 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some non-US meaning of soda that I don't know? < 1307559439 501431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, I see < 1307559443 233285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := ten thousand different fucking names for "sugary carbonated drink"" < 1307559444 699318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soda would be a more specific drink in the UK < 1307559447 528368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you know about /etc/rmt? < 1307559450 147883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1307559461 876884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like lemonade but worse < 1307559467 424374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh < 1307559467 587308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1307559467 587520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# This is not a mistake. This shell script (/etc/rmt) has been provided < 1307559467 587633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# for compatibility with other Unix-like systems, some of which have < 1307559467 587743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# utilities that expect to find (and execute) rmt in the /etc directory < 1307559468 603657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# on remote systems. < 1307559470 486701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1307559474 419555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec /usr/sbin/rmt < 1307559476 414201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how exciting < 1307559480 392716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I typed /etc/rmt in chrome expecting it to google; instead it displayed the file < 1307559482 381401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1307559484 552205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is arguably more helpful here...) < 1307559498 862823 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: coke is "kind of" a generic term in the southern US, yes, but it doesn't explicitly mean that. It just works out nicely because everyone in the south drinks Coke so it usually doesn't matter what you mean. :P < 1307559500 325167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is why separate address and search bars is useful < 1307559507 437751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you referring to crem soda, btw? < 1307559509 357222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]cream < 1307559514 994909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that's something slightly different again < 1307559517 67776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling that just "soda" would be weird < 1307559522 83699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I pastebinned it above. there is no need to paste it in channel < 1307559523 607205 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: soda water right? < 1307559524 921059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, then I'm not sure what you're referring to < 1307559526 826369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't see < 1307559527 628805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm willing to accept that that's a sort of soda, given how similar they are < 1307559529 214508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that might be it < 1307559529 569815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: this is why separate address and search bars is useful < 1307559534 417344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually type Ctrl+K when I want to search < 1307559538 255927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it automatically adds the ? prefix for search < 1307559539 649700 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "soda" is a generic term for carbonated water, yes. < 1307559541 577836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I highlighted you < 1307559542 378468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the states as well. < 1307559542 555487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never /clicked/ the boxes, so it's equivalent < 1307559545 33320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to configure Firefox to not search when entering a typoed URL in the address bar < 1307559567 499568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it tries to visit the website instead, which is still annoying when I press return early < 1307559588 771968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate combined search bar thingy < 1307559596 203048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails badly on any system on the lan < 1307559610 568530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that runs a http server < 1307559623 561650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it and dislike any browser I can't configure to work like that, whoop de doo, who cares < 1307559630 469717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you one of the few people in the world who uses /etc/hosts for its intended purpose? < 1307559644 346855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just type my search and have absolutely no problems.. < 1307559655 200297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: where do you type it? < 1307559659 351538 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ctrl+k thing is useful. I didn't know that. < 1307559670 158751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the address/search bar of Chrome. < 1307559675 210627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use my mouse to focus the search box, as web browsing is mouse-driven anyway < 1307559690 15007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: are you one of the few people in the world who uses /etc/hosts for its intended purpose? < 1307559693 709868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: same. < 1307559699 931012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: routers usually handle assigning IPs to computer names, don't they? < 1307559705 368033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least my router's DNS seems to, or whatever < 1307559708 654075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, or DNS < 1307559710 459220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems saner than keeping it on every system < 1307559713 109343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what I meant < 1307559724 65502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, that's why I asked Vorpal rather than you < 1307559727 424730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still use my router's DNS because everything else ends up slower < 1307559729 806396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :-D < 1307559732 863088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, could I recursively mount root in my file system for great win? < 1307559744 602017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you could use a loopback mount < 1307559753 743618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1307559754 572709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if it'd be a great win or a mild curiosity < 1307559759 6570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: are you one of the few people in the world who uses /etc/hosts for its intended purpose? <-- yes < 1307559770 401199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only time I saw a useful use for that was when we mounted / at /var/www/root on Normish < 1307559781 214944 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: directory walking algorithms would rejoice and become immortal. They will bow down and worship me. < 1307559781 708016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and had the entire VM served to the web < 1307559793 415315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: amazingly, some of them have actually thought of that < 1307559807 977866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know certain directory walking programs have flags not to change filesystems < 1307559809 391255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? why? < 1307559814 202153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mean < 1307559817 587737 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously we know why < 1307559830 255308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more useful to stop you directory-walking onto an NFS share < 1307559835 806804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you didn't mean to do that < 1307559841 953442 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense I guess. < 1307559842 275376 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why use /etc/hosts for its intended purpose? Not *that* hard to set up a DNS server. < 1307559864 749787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I'm planning to switch over to running a zone on the caching dns server. < 1307559869 265945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, this explains why so few people use it that way, because there's not much of a reason < 1307559876 512834 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yup. < 1307559876 831235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but I don't have many systems < 1307559879 33878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *shrug* < 1307559882 927474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few people use it to redirect sites they don't want to browse at localhost or 0.0.0.0 or whatever < 1307559900 628473 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh, that's what I've got Adblock for. < 1307559910 488297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it extends to not just browsing < 1307559923 584092 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When else would that come up? < 1307559923 852954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it to block arbitrary Internet-capable applications from accessing certain sites by name < 1307559931 778710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stopping automatic updates on Windows is a semi-common use < 1307559942 412848 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much everywhere else, you're explicitly specifying a single host. < 1307559949 264968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can do that in preferences < 1307559953 842455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for self-control < 1307559957 231177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for the OS as a whole < 1307559959 170285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. blacklisting away reddit.com < 1307559962 638045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1307559963 965390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :individual programs can be nastier-behaved < 1307559967 363548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307559979 760798 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless those applications include a DNS client... which would be a sensible thing to do if you want to make it a wee bit harder to work around their phone-home code < 1307559981 385918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Windows everything has its own updater < 1307560000 575219 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best idea ever. < 1307560002 715037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of which like sitting in the system traynotification area whether you're using the associated application or not, and even show a little icon to let you know they're running < 1307560003 227489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I used /etc/hosts to redirect minecraft when minecraft.net was down, so the program would time out logging in a fraction of a second instead of over a minute < 1307560014 495731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, that's a sensible abuse of it < 1307560019 643122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :notification system tray area < 1307560022 721744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the bit that implies you were playing minecraft < 1307560032 886667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh? :P < 1307560035 870979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Microsoft have to go around denying that it's called the system tray < 1307560037 902828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that just an "I don't like Minecraft" comment, or? < 1307560045 959404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, it's just an I don't like Minecraft comment < 1307560053 276326 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how advanced is Elliotcraft? < 1307560059 211531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I know of no such game < 1307560066 991688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway the best way to thwart phone home is a firewall to block that ip < 1307560076 483304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliottcraft I'm happy to talk about in #esoteric-minecraft, to avoid the wrath of ais523 < 1307560080 78195 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: presumably it's a craft the like of which you have never seen < 1307560080 241370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because making petty jibes at things is easy to do when you're tired < 1307560088 878360 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hypothetically not as advanced as the hypothetical Cakecraft < 1307560089 775441 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliottcraft* < 1307560090 508632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : except the bit that implies you were playing minecraft <-- what < 1307560094 117579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't necessarily dislike things similar to MInecraft < 1307560105 730353 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecruft < 1307560111 280255 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yourcraft < 1307560122 270843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the game itself annoys me due to being shallower than its competitors, badly-written, and attracting hordes of fanboys < 1307560125 225787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what did you mean with that phrase!? < 1307560133 649135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What would you consider its competitors? I'm curious. < 1307560140 632389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would explain except that I already explained to elliott a few minutes ago < 1307560152 752199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just wait for his scrollback to scroll into the right place < 1307560154 115548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1307560154 941186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1307560155 554537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should only take a few more lines < 1307560158 369920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1307560162 62586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1307560168 312054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yay now I have a valid excuse! < 1307560168 540932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cakecraft will support real death! and system clean up tools, which entails destroying your Windows partition. < 1307560172 744132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thank you so much < 1307560187 652621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in ##nomic I compared it to a game trying to do both what NetHack and Rubicon do, and doing them both really badly < 1307560192 215223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it might have been a bad comparison < 1307560202 37725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it depends on what you want from a game < 1307560217 311112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: while, mechanically, that may be true, I think the whole presentation and intent of a game matters greatly < 1307560220 789323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sim City could be another comparison, too < 1307560224 433613 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also serves as a sophisticated botnet! so that you can collaborate with other Cakecrafters and share computational resources, for example, to help me spam advertising for Cakecraft. < 1307560225 221825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dwarf fortress might be a better parallel, though much less intricate gameplay < 1307560228 405677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack is, of course, a wildly different game as far as gameplay goes < 1307560241 180702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but the premise is vaguely similar < 1307560243 651111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarf Fortress too -- all those games have _goals_ of a sort :) < 1307560246 622441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if the gameplay is very different < 1307560247 139230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course very different game play again < 1307560256 152693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, minecraft is sandbox < 1307560269 672599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, not dying could be a goal in minecraft? < 1307560272 431266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree that Minecraft is essentially not that interesting after you play it for a while, beyond some fun stuff like redstone circuits that are interesting for mainly reasons unrelated to the game itself; and Notch is obviously incompetent at practically everything < 1307560274 567661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my issue is that I don't see why a sandbox game should require you to gather the sand yourself < 1307560293 740683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think minecraft really rocks because of SMP < 1307560298 83504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the essential presentation -- threedee world of purely blocks that you can mutate yourself creating a world with no inherent purpose -- is a really nice idea, hough. < 1307560299 491003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though. < 1307560311 943108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, Minecraft Classic was literally just that < 1307560313 803258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, I think that's a decent premise < 1307560318 9357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could walk, jump, place blocks, and delete them (instantly) < 1307560324 459230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was no health or anything, no time passing, nothing < 1307560325 843345 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good idea, implemented by someone who's not that good at implementing these things. < 1307560330 168933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the addition of the other stuff that seems pointless, although some people seem to like it < 1307560330 744732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was still hugely popular, because that's the interesting core < 1307560335 751750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it needs to be added on to be truly interesting < 1307560337 786677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, come on, have you still not got apple to fix your keyboard? How long does the warranty last < 1307560338 102684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Notch stopped far too short < 1307560349 284809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, let's make a 3D Rubicon < 1307560349 681584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: long enough for me to be lazy for a little while longer < 1307560352 817438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's the addition of the other stuff that seems pointless, although some people seem to like it < 1307560354 783132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1307560355 988665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree here < 1307560358 666196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classic gets boring quickly < 1307560358 972849 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :pistons < 1307560367 134173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you've built a few houses, you're pretty much done < 1307560371 584966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I can imagine the addition of things to interact /with/ < 1307560376 780643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so long as it's optional or summonable < 1307560391 107888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like redstone? < 1307560401 312636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Elliottcraft, I'm basically trying to make the world generation a lot more involved and detailed, and go from there < 1307560402 511699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know what redstone is < 1307560402 857441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 8-bit computer is really fun < 1307560404 748478 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made a mod that gives you an editable ROM block < 1307560412 584384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :majorly, I plan for there to be a lot of forces that aren't you < 1307560417 83681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this isn't Slaves to Armok III, is it? < 1307560418 173964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically allows you do build logic gates in minecraft. < 1307560418 667832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike in Minecraft, where everything is either < 1307560420 122287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- you < 1307560426 264181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- idiotic and does nothing, only useful to kill < 1307560427 641049 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that redstone and rails where the two additions that Notch did that kept the interest up... < 1307560431 349418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- evil but really not that threatening < 1307560433 706026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It might be :) < 1307560446 426038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: following the guidelines discussed in-channel? < 1307560449 575886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you have wire, you have power sources, and you have inverters. Someone built a simple CPU with it < 1307560450 501024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not quite :P < 1307560452 52510 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it gives you more things *to actually build*, rather than "Oh, look, I can add some new blocks to my house. Whoo." < 1307560459 952241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Amusingly the main catalyst for this was how terrible Minecraft's network protocol is. < 1307560469 547449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could literally tell it you were at any y position, and it would believe you. < 1307560472 437167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't see why those couldn't be in minecraft classic < 1307560480 548602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even use this to fall from such a height that you _wrapped the health counter around_. < 1307560480 737293 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No particular reason. < 1307560485 220041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making you effectively immortal. < 1307560490 308891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, is that how the warping commands worked? < 1307560495 413532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, actually < 1307560497 959011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it was some sort of debug feature < 1307560503 190068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, Notch is just really stupid < 1307560503 899473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just trust-the-client? < 1307560507 162191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1307560511 645636 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Though, the mining *itself* would be interesting... If it got developed more. < 1307560513 557518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fixed recently, probably in a really terrible way < 1307560513 842770 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notch is stupid < 1307560514 505728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't work any more though < 1307560520 704855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the vast majority of games I've made have had some sort of teleport as a debug feature < 1307560523 656665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have I mentioned that client-side and server-side are two completely different codebases? < 1307560528 912257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two complete implementations of the same game < 1307560531 716482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, some things are shared < 1307560532 144969 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, as soon as you have an iron pickaxe it's not that interesting, and as soon as you have diamond everything it's downright boring. < 1307560533 648673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's less necessarily insane < 1307560534 90661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that said, I heard that movement being client side is quite common in many multiplayer games. < 1307560536 583959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how it works < 1307560539 907274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think in the copy-and-paste the java files shared < 1307560542 161164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if it was insane in this case < 1307560555 162197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as in "there are tons of single-player and multi-player exclusive bugs that have nothing to do with the network or your hard disk" < 1307560555 324797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, they were doing the same calculations on different codebases? that's insane < 1307560561 831184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know /how/ < 1307560570 38079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the most idiotic person would have a common library for this stuff < 1307560575 267193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah < 1307560582 1518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can see a plausible client-side = rendering and UI, server-side = logic split that wouldn't require common codebases) < 1307560597 117198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what I'm doing for Elliottcraft, basically < 1307560605 427393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, notch wasn't that stupid when teleport worked. Just as stupid as most other < 1307560614 264304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what most sensible multiplayer games do unless it doesn't work for performance reasons < 1307560619 743285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you just connect to a local server, except it's changed slightly, in that it's made to share the map data between the srever and client in memory < 1307560624 725533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it communicates directly rather than through a socket < 1307560627 979232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307560633 458611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it do sockets too, for multiplayer play? < 1307560635 372014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the plan, anyway < 1307560637 939991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, of course < 1307560641 984720 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is something that IndustrialCraft gets right — there is a massive, massive tech tree to go through, rather than "3 days in and you're done". < 1307560658 242252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so it's "finish the tech tree and you're done" instead? < 1307560659 611488 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IndustrialCraft is a poorly documented but gigantic mod for Minecraft) < 1307560661 750533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I figure if I get all the hard problems of not trusting the client, synchronisation, timing blah blah blah right /once/, then the overhead should be sufficiently low that I can just use the same locally < 1307560675 289973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, agreed < 1307560684 787771 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cakecraft = amazing physics playground that will never be made. < 1307560685 636293 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That would be on par with building your own 64 bit computer in Minecraft. < 1307560693 579419 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you *could*, but holy fuck it would take a long time. < 1307560703 778830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, the real reason minecraft sucks is because it has a tiny finite y dimension :( < 1307560713 607932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm not sure I enjoy such a tech tree. I mostly play on a creative (free /give) server these days. With movecraft of course. < 1307560722 278480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case, it's like Pokémon where you don't go through the game with all 693 of them as you'd get bored past about 30 or 40 < 1307560739 384720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, free /give apart from bedrock) < 1307560742 29971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the key with these sorts of games < 1307560744 157567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1307560745 965753 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, disclaimer, I tend to play in a modded-up creative mode. < 1307560746 252183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the player have enough fun < 1307560750 745334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they don't realise there's no actual point to the game < 1307560752 104511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1307560753 563959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or goal, or anything < 1307560758 739300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: any command to unbedrock a square? it seems a plausible thing to add to a creative mod < 1307560764 32912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that wait until they're talking on irc about it < 1307560769 466585 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be interesting if, instead of bedrock, there was a point where you reached the other side of the planet, and gravity inverted. :) < 1307560770 123536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope they forget by the time they play again < 1307560772 926403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there doesn't have to be a goal if the game is generally fun, though < 1307560783 913048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a goal is something that can help to make games fun < 1307560785 314848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS WHAT IS THE GOAL OF TETRIS??????? < 1307560788 987098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're fun anyway, though, you don't need one < 1307560800 917394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the server has worldedit (a plugin that adds an in game map editor basically) for the admins, that lets them break bedrock. Which can't normally be done. < 1307560801 165803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been playing for a year but i have still not won < 1307560818 306738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aim to reach the killscreen < 1307560824 911310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, generally things work out nicely though, small group of players, whitelisted server < 1307560840 598712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, killscreen? < 1307560853 243630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in a platformer I'm vaguely planning, I'll have a bedrock-equivalent called unobtanium < 1307560854 212429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetris, what an utterly boring game < 1307560861 185117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never liked that sort of arcade style < 1307560866 459682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the name suits the way it behaves really well < 1307560869 482824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetris is great < 1307560877 860920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you stop playing < 1307560881 318385 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetris is, in fact, fucking awesome. < 1307560882 304287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and realise how worthless that was < 1307560884 903170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know some people like it. Good for them. I don't. < 1307560893 33638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you read a bullshit study about how it helps your brain to be the smarts < 1307560894 257211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in a computer game, a killscreen is a screen you reach where you've got so far in the game that the level you're on is completely impossible because it glitches out < 1307560894 924054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you feel better < 1307560915 298200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I never manage to get past more than one or two of the levels. I think my record in gnome's tetris clone is level 4 or so < 1307560915 790734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pah, pacman doesn't have one of THOSE < 1307560916 73159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's most famous in Pac-Man, where level 256 overwraps something or other and half the screen glitches out, meaning that the level can no longer be completed < 1307560919 565098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has a super-difficult last level < 1307560922 163956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can, actually < 1307560923 208848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1307560923 815369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a huge pain < 1307560943 103981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, even if you collect every thing-it-thinks-is-a-dot, it still doesn't go to the next level < 1307560948 103574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, really? < 1307560949 280677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough then < 1307560951 67743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so although it's theoretically "completable", there's no reward for doing so < 1307560962 221164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not well tested eh < 1307560966 830586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best you can do is die and complete the level again, repeating until you're out of lives < 1307560973 135653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I doubt they expected anyone to reach level 256 < 1307560983 910385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, they were wrong < 1307560990 879301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not well-tested? < 1307560991 944075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after level 9 or so (I forget the last number), the same level just repeats over and over anyway, getting slightly faster each time < 1307560994 325061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took /decades/ for anyone to reach that far < 1307560997 600680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1307561004 854201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was by memorising the RNG sequence < 1307561009 282400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pac-Man's RNG is very simpel) < 1307561010 839874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simple < 1307561014 589178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sequence of inputs required to win < 1307561018 81323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1307561021 822947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it took much more time than it took for someone to find out that minecraft's terrain is actually way smaller than it claims to be :P < 1307561026 566209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly, that was by "cheating") < 1307561035 86327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307561069 388028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if people hadn't cheated, then it wouldn't have been found out in the next handful of years at least < 1307561076 572165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it would < 1307561086 629900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :put stack of coins on return key and forward key < 1307561090 378015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave for a month < 1307561095 818439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, return? < 1307561096 192932 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1307561097 452649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :return to find the game crashed :D < 1307561099 827295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean space? < 1307561101 930021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: er right < 1307561108 132739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : return to find the game crashed :D <-- come on, it does that anyway < 1307561128 767561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what ACTUALLY would have happened would be that you had fallen into a deep pit and now stood jumping against the wall < 1307561139 405342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even 2 high blocks < 1307561147 52218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah :P < 1307561160 229280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could script it, though whether you consider that "cheating"... < 1307561161 671296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who cares < 1307561170 600187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't cheat at a sandbox game < 1307561173 264222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1307561183 454181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something I realised last night: radix sort is actually O(n log n), and people have been misrepresenting it all this time < 1307561191 724002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about SMP survival servers, you could probably "cheat" there < 1307561200 677586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparison sorts use comparisons, which take the same length of time for the first and last comparisons < 1307561206 344998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but radix sort increments bin counts < 1307561208 556012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only 'cuz notch sucks < 1307561213 714043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding 1 to a number is O(log n) < 1307561230 124905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arithmetic is considered to be O(1) in big-O analysis usually < 1307561233 759594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does SMP stand for, btw? something multiplayer? < 1307561234 188436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, speaking of which, the "flying detection" in bukkit is really buggy. It thought I was flying when I went down a ladder, removing it under me < 1307561237 89384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's cheating! < 1307561239 757457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it isn't < 1307561245 438456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who said we had to go by the laws of real-life computers? < 1307561248 149623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's arbitrary < 1307561259 717829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :picking something nice and simple like arithmetic to be O(1) is perfectly reasonable < 1307561261 566352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the number takes O(log n) space to represent < 1307561266 326681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and time complexity >= space complexity < 1307561298 609170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could do a large adder as a combinatorial circuit maybe < 1307561303 640363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory you could < 1307561307 994859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but that puts a limit < 1307561313 776976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the size of the numbers added < 1307561322 194985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's O(infinity) with optimizations for small n < 1307561322 637440 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : and adding 1 to a number is O(log n) < 1307561324 262085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why don't people use something like double-adders or such < 1307561344 832679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is half the number of carries < 1307561348 688255 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's right with ...damn tip of tongue... < 1307561358 129755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: capitalism? < 1307561367 292258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, incrementing? < 1307561372 467181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dodecahedron < 1307561375 600821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: brontosaurus < 1307561377 719796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oligarchy < 1307561378 749616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, crocodile < 1307561381 12195 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that thing they use to describe functional data structures < 1307561381 526119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: rocks < 1307561384 481601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, for very wide additions, there's often separate circuitry to calculate the carries at midpoints, etc < 1307561385 34549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fortuitousness < 1307561393 173844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: some sort of zipper? < 1307561394 345015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, definitely crocodile then < 1307561397 524302 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it starts with a < 1307561399 146624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: infelicity < 1307561404 741486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: rhombus < 1307561404 903960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, aardvark < 1307561410 292159 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those creeps are not helping :D < 1307561412 296905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cartographing < 1307561416 40899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Istanbul < 1307561416 789401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean carry-lookahead? < 1307561419 79211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cashmere < 1307561422 201584 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: abstract data type? < 1307561425 752654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pastiche < 1307561426 298840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1307561428 168044 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, about their complexity < 1307561432 929624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fanned < 1307561435 560430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Big O notation? < 1307561435 777097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i helping < 1307561439 113945 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1307561440 746740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that isn't a word, moron < 1307561445 93425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh true < 1307561451 155285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he said it started with a. < 1307561454 662714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1307561459 307511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: affluency < 1307561463 408062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: apex < 1307561465 984792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aperture < 1307561468 585005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: axiomata < 1307561471 947699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: all < 1307561473 268366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I already did aardvark btw < 1307561474 943704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: able < 1307561476 390969 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not _sure_ it starts with an a < 1307561479 664388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: acrimonious < 1307561486 836332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh. Hm array? < 1307561489 563917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: astigmatism < 1307561500 834195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: arachnophobe < 1307561505 10357 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WON'T GUESS IT IF YOU HAVEN'T HEARD IT < 1307561505 969985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: alter < 1307561512 895983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: annals < 1307561516 166351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AM I HELPING YET < 1307561519 129829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, altar, you forgot that < 1307561524 641250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not a word silly. < 1307561525 136780 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about the complexity of functional data structures < 1307561526 63091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd help more if the words were vaguely related to the field < 1307561533 321658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: amortization? < 1307561534 127864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just trying to be thorough < 1307561534 673334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, isn't "altar" a word? < 1307561540 912347 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: THANK GOD < 1307561545 278127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: should I leaf through my copy of Purely Functional Data Struc- oh < 1307561545 497029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1307561547 774395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could have guessed that < 1307561552 709409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see, it takes you all those guesses and I only took two < 1307561555 361053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you SAY that was the word you were looking for < 1307561556 302077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sooner or later yes < 1307561569 281189 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats elliott -----### < 1307561585 183202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't think it's O(1) with amortization, but I'm not sure < 1307561587 710261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe O(log log n) < 1307561591 476846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, come on elliott was being intentionally silly. (More so than me) < 1307561593 921606 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically if you are counting stuff, the _average_ bin addition only takes O(1) < 1307561602 515238 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bin increment < 1307561607 349588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was actually seeing how well I could generate random words, too < 1307561609 697037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out: pretty well < 1307561622 410789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm come up with something that is O(log_{log n} n) < 1307561628 551171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why? < 1307561637 188394 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2 take 1, 1/4 take 2, 1/8 take 3 < 1307561637 440298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because I can't think of something like that < 1307561651 681832 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok maybe slightly more than O(1) but not O(log n) < 1307561667 956188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, so it averages out at 2 < 1307561668 118983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I agree with you now < 1307561679 973723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you are just adding these together, couldn't you do a partial sum thingy and add the carry in at the end? < 1307561695 220383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O(2) I think < 1307561696 714877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1307561700 159345 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1307561706 248933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carry_save_adder < 1307561721 780984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we're talking about the asymptotic behaviour of repeated increments < 1307561756 735146 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goal in life: implement constant time list search using acquired magical abilities. < 1307561766 622351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and I say you could do it in O(1) per addition even for repeated arbitrary additions. Using carry save < 1307561788 677961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sylladex.VM> runVM (ExcCtx test Map.empty) (snd (head test)) [] < 1307561788 902018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[VInt 1999] < 1307561791 753349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not rite < 1307561816 308656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1307561823 721095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that requires O(n log n) /space/ < 1307561826 131588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait WHAT < 1307561828 218173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1307561830 100632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because your numbers have to have arbitrary digits in < 1307561842 250180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind-of much worse than O(1) or even O(log n) < 1307561871 570415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best complexity is O(log log log log log log n) < 1307561872 730065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NO less < 1307561881 84605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, my Slashdot sig (the shortest known INTERCAL adder) is basically iterated carry-save < 1307561890 212049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without using the standard library, that is) < 1307561892 304323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm wait, it just needs 2* the space of the number in bits < 1307561893 324702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do a distributed search for a shorter adder. :p < 1307561899 391851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be like protein folding, only even more worthwhile. < 1307561902 786946 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, it's n log n - log n worse < 1307561918 928796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL@home < 1307561924 86182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't think computational classes add/subtract like that < 1307561932 582819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD KEEP IT CONFINED TO YOUR WORKPLCAE < 1307561934 479906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]PLACE < 1307561936 827829 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do for purposes of comparison. :D < 1307561948 508464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've expended quite a lot of thought to getting an adder in a single expression, but I haven't found a way to do it that isn't really really long < 1307561960 953167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I managed something like a one-expression increment that was only a few hundred characters long < 1307561976 614893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I think I managed something like a one-expression increment that was only a few hundred characters long < 1307561977 856835 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​442) I think I managed something like a one-expression increment that was only a few hundred characters long < 1307561991 246842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was funny? < 1307561998 35427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, more so out of context < 1307562021 292215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, imagine this without context. Then it sounds fun < 1307562024 111489 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird < 1307562030 319621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1307562031 716494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't < 1307562036 813621 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:37 elliott> the best complexity is O(log log log log log log n) < 1307562036 988979 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:37 elliott> and NO less < 1307562047 558858 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows 7 uses 100% cpu with no process to blame < 1307562053 151385 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't approve of that inverse ackermann thing for union find? < 1307562058 948455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm sorry who has the phd here. < 1307562060 384162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. < 1307562064 31472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop questioning things i say. < 1307562065 914722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take them at face value. < 1307562066 817718 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu is 100% bussy constantly and i don't know why < 1307562111 835449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you don't approve of that inverse ackermann thing for union find? <-- wait what < 1307562128 817453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT RUNVM < 1307562130 184701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS MAKES NO SENSE < 1307562131 810445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU < 1307562134 33607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND ALL YOUR GUTS < 1307562138 285277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is runvm? < 1307562152 478782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function < 1307562153 520169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WIAT < 1307562154 312339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1307562163 188349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh wow this is going to be so ugly < 1307562172 363728 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's this algorithm called union find that works in time O(n + inverse of ackermann) < 1307562174 489032 :adam__!~adam@h185.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1307562175 837201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow uh can i even < 1307562176 558183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1307562180 792410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok wait what if i < 1307562181 703642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1307562188 128576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME TO NEST THE LIST MORE LOL < 1307562191 74616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god wait no i can't do that < 1307562197 352799 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that's higher than O(log log ... n) actually, because of the O(n) < 1307562202 367020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1307562207 682443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i represent some machine code in haskell :( < 1307562208 913738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wouldn't that just be equivalent to O(n)? < 1307562216 40949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(Label,[Ins])] sucks < 1307562216 606410 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may misremember stuff, i only saw it mentioned again yesterday on godel's lost letter < 1307562221 296778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because implementing the fall-through to the next label < 1307562222 925177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a pain < 1307562225 51485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like O(n + log n) is equivalent to O(n)? < 1307562228 175619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the evaluation function < 1307562228 629808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1307562232 632836 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um maybe it was O(1+inverse ackermann) < 1307562234 512919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is union find for? < 1307562238 705959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make more sense < 1307562248 168366 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme look it up < 1307562255 841957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm on the point of inventing a new language to solve that sort of problem < 1307562261 73947 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it was something about mazes, not GLL < 1307562266 539198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh < 1307562267 355892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far it only has a few basic ideas and a name that doesn't really fit but that I'll use anyway < 1307562276 407640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I suppose I could like < 1307562293 167506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,all:the:instructions:xs), (1,xs)] < 1307562294 582610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1307562301 738346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :each label actually includes a pointer to all the code following it too < 1307562303 737993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by consing it on < 1307562304 924209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh < 1307562305 395706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1307562352 902322 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.algorithmist.com/index.php/Union_Find < 1307562353 447226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i mentioned that the only reason i'm writing this function is to serve as a reference implementation < 1307562357 744157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1307562387 684974 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1307562389 890503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, cool < 1307562407 239964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if that's like < 1307562414 626200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fastest above-constant complexity < 1307562419 158151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for something that actually doe s something of interest < 1307562428 483707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it probably comes pretty close < 1307562443 496484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course O(log ackinv(n)) would be even better < 1307562469 680427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but is there any algorithm that does anything of interest that has that complexity? < 1307562478 740153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know of < 1307562527 381018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Union Find seems to be similar to implementing a dialog of Prolog where you had nothing but variables and = < 1307562537 396539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. A = B, A = C, D = E, etc < 1307562544 941772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the question was if two of them were unified at any given point or not < 1307562578 82245 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(Label,[Ins])] sucks <-- maybe just make Label an element of Ins, then? < 1307562592 890848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that makes jumping to a label really slow < 1307562597 347672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to linearly scan all the code up to it < 1307562609 948279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that's like < 1307562615 522194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a multiplicative factor of what you have to do anywya < 1307562618 352007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]anyway < 1307562619 541158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ew come on < 1307562631 304509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw this structure actually works fairly decently for the actual compilers? just not for an interpreter < 1307562638 549365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't want to make it worse on the actual compilers? even though that wouldn't but < 1307562642 698162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, keep track of labels in a AVL tree with pointers to the relevant code line/node/whatevere? < 1307562643 19822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically what i am saying is < 1307562645 139669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is kind of ew oerjan. < 1307562645 302082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever* < 1307562669 176329 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think you got the memo, but I think I could port util-linux to musl in a couple of hours. < 1307562677 521789 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, of course O(log ackinv(n)) would be even better <-- that may be indistinguishable from ackinv(n) by mortals :P < 1307562678 642533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do it < 1307562687 185853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there is that yes < 1307562688 631342 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The only really non-trivial bit would be implementing error(). < 1307562708 192265 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Everything else, near as I can tell, is a matter of unincluded bits. < 1307562727 563271 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darned easy to fix includes. < 1307562737 560996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does error do again < 1307562764 382769 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can make a Map for jumping to labels even if you put the labels in the code. hm actually if you do that you don't need to include the labels in the code again < 1307562804 8052 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can use knot tying to only calculate this once, i think < 1307562812 620277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: knot tying...scares me......... < 1307562839 139783 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: void error(int status, int errnum, const char *format, ...);. Prints the program name, a colon, and a space, then the format string, then strerror(errnum) if errnum != 0, then exit(status) if status != 0. < 1307562861 307537 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott was once tied up by function pedobear < 1307562865 828439 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*functional < 1307562889 512439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's < 1307562890 670672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :difficult? < 1307562890 833241 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my theory that muphry's law applies to any sufficiently cheesy joke seems to hold < 1307562896 329788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the program name part? < 1307562932 368446 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The reason I said "2 hours" is because there's a hell of a lot of misincluding. :P < 1307562974 953304 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the place i saw this was about implementing mazes by starting with a grid and removing random walls between rooms that had no connection already, this needs union find to check for connectedness < 1307562998 861572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, that's another application for much the same thing < 1307563017 125171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend not to end up using standard algorithms that much beyond dijkstra/A*/priority queues/sorts < 1307563050 853241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although recently for my work, I had to find a list of strongly connected components in a partial preorder (like tsort, except focusing on the error condition rather than the success condition) < 1307563054 232863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best algorithms are ones that involve spinning around a lot < 1307563097 718164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, I found one on Wikipedia, and implemented it, even if I'm not entirely sure on how it works < 1307563164 844504 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wonder if there would be advantages to a prolog implementation using union find for unification < 1307563193 546365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the major issue is that you probably want to be able to free things again when they go out of scope < 1307563196 595622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[PDF] Optimal Union-Find in Constraint Handling Rules < 1307563196 836611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View < 1307563196 999513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by T Schrijvers - Cited by 65 - Related articles < 1307563196 999716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible to write the classic union-find algorithm and variants in CHR. ... For example, one often hears the argument that in Prolog some graph algorithms .... to combine the existing CHR solvers for term unification with our union- ... < 1307563197 162569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid...?doi=10.1.1... < 1307563198 591994 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307563199 194791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's going to be slower than the actual unification < 1307563199 628572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's an implementation though < 1307563202 734388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than using it as a technique < 1307563321 180998 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So far, 21 files that don't build right, and several more stupid warnings. < 1307563350 962131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : as always, replying to ehird < 1307563374 381209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1307563394 836329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is why you make your spec perfect the _first_ time round < 1307563451 120846 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm that rank comparison thing in that wiki article i linked should be applicable to unification while still allowing easy freeing. i think that's essentially a way to prevent too long chains of unified variables, no? < 1307563491 205870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, but the issue is you need reverse pointers to free something < 1307563506 785192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if one of your variables happens to be a root, there's no way you can free it without fixing up everything pointing to it < 1307563513 214118 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but you need that for unification anyway? < 1307563530 47228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Union-Find doesn't let you know everything in the same set as something < 1307563532 924651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just if two things are in the same set < 1307563545 934585 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm just saying this rank thing is a way to be careful _which way_ you identify < 1307563616 978619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you figure out a better data structure for the asm :D < 1307563623 883096 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1307563653 163627 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um my idea now is to simply have a list for the whole code from start to finish, and represent the labels by pointers into that < 1307563672 326758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah < 1307563681 339466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I would quite like there to be integers too, although I suppose I could just make < 1307563684 802353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Label = (Int,Prog) < 1307563699 118311 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or put differently, approximately your [(Label,[Ins])] except you _don't_ stop the [Ins] list before the next label < 1307563730 134513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I see a fairly major issue -- it will make Show practically impossible < 1307563736 181941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the structure will be effectively infinite < 1307563740 777649 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1307563777 780971 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always an issue < 1307563787 85532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros why is your server OUTDATES < 1307563787 401673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 12 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1307563792 372753 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FFS. < 1307563796 405531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was online! < 1307563826 341659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... that's a good point. < 1307563831 864601 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you broke it again. Congratulations. < 1307563834 932212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1307563860 428697 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok then, have your original [(Label,[Ins])] but make a second variant which doesn't end, for easy fall through < 1307563877 420771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you mean by a second variant? < 1307563899 605944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm really tempted just to roll in the labels into the actual Ins like you said < 1307563907 174737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the linear scan for interpretation is not that big a deal, the interpreter is just like < 1307563909 861568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be reference semantics < 1307564048 419037 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f = zip . scanr1 (++) . unzip in f [(1,"ab"), (2,"cde"), (3,"f")] < 1307564049 294560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1307564049 456927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `([a1], [b... < 1307564058 836407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just doing it in a simple way instead >_> < 1307564059 197606 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord < 1307564061 423590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whups < 1307564083 112956 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f = zip . second (scanr1 (++)) . unzip in f [(1,"ab"), (2,"cde"), (3,"f")] < 1307564083 999352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1307564084 169139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(d, [a1])' < 1307564136 347919 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip . second (scanr1 (++)) . unzip < 1307564137 181292 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1307564137 364106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(d, [a1])' < 1307564137 526657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `second (scanr1 (++))' < 1307564146 875348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr1 (++) < 1307564147 619355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Monoid a) => [a] -> [a] < 1307564162 135657 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody caleskell :P < 1307564178 911278 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t second (scanr1 (++)) < 1307564179 707869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a d. (Monoid a) => (d, [a]) -> (d, [a]) < 1307564185 80755 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t second (scanr1 (++)) . unzip < 1307564185 858447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (Monoid a) => [(a1, a)] -> ([a1], [a]) < 1307564204 189555 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip . second (scanr1 (++)) . unzip < 1307564204 947123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1307564205 121601 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(d, [a1])' < 1307564205 283941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `second (scanr1 (++))' < 1307564215 838418 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip < 1307564216 591804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] < 1307564218 366185 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1307564223 820769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runVM ctx ((_, IPush x : is):iss) xs = runVM ctx (is:iss) (x:xs) < 1307564225 805127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at dat ugliness < 1307564233 311278 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f = curry zip . second (scanr1 (++)) . unzip in f [(1,"ab"), (2,"cde"), (3,"f")] < 1307564234 879433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `(a, b)' against inferred type `[a1]' < 1307564243 970693 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW WHAT < 1307564250 650544 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry zip . second (scanr1 (++)) . unzip < 1307564251 530718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `(a, b)' against inferred type `[a1]' < 1307564251 693519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `curry', namely `zip' < 1307564251 693715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `curry zip' < 1307564266 607753 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry zip < 1307564267 416763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `(a, b)' against inferred type `[a1]' < 1307564267 579246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `curry', namely `zip' < 1307564267 579334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: curry zip < 1307564283 876950 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1307564298 332405 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry zip < 1307564299 137214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. ([a], [b]) -> [(a, b)] < 1307564306 345968 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f = uncurry zip . second (scanr1 (++)) . unzip in f [(1,"ab"), (2,"cde"), (3,"f")] < 1307564307 898388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,"abcdef"),(2,"cdef"),(3,"f")] < 1307564319 415718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait argh < 1307564320 966535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is even uglier < 1307564332 119698 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always get curry and uncurry mixed up < 1307564339 319040 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1307564345 430712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nice < 1307564351 620844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately i'll end up recomputing that a ton < 1307564355 570394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i do something really ugly < 1307564357 480940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i guess i could < 1307564386 499839 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um why? unless the language is self-modifying < 1307564401 373702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just as in < 1307564402 360056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jhfhjg < 1307564407 134110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fine thank you < 1307564415 730766 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean not caching? :P < 1307564466 273237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1307564656 703233 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how lazy scanr is < 1307564687 970672 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (take 5) . take 5 . scanr1 (++) $ [1..] < 1307564688 885612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instances for (GHC.Num.Num [a], GHC.Enum.Enum [a]) < 1307564689 53494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use... < 1307564695 283388 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1307564731 595839 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (take 5) . take 5 . scanr1 (++) $ map show [1..] < 1307564733 442122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["12345","23456","34567","45678","56789"] < 1307564751 915350 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy enough, it seems :P < 1307564802 656955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr < 1307564803 385203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> [b] < 1307564812 734075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what is scanr doing? < 1307564827 738792 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: otoh that path compression thing is something i've pondered as useful for both FORTE and Reaper (although neither actually _implemented_...) < 1307564843 691764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr (\a.\b.a+b) 4 [1,2,3,4,5,6] < 1307564844 516434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `.\' < 1307564851 739473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr (\a -> \b -> a+b) 4 [1,2,3,4,5,6] < 1307564852 54127 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Should I just try to do a reimplementation of error(), or should I just replace all mentions of it? < 1307564852 664845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [25,24,22,19,15,10,4] < 1307564862 93506 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr f x [a,b,c,d] :: Expr < 1307564863 207135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr' < 1307564863 386509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ... < 1307564868 17738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's doing a cumulative sum < 1307564869 435692 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1307564890 231630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a scan is basically a fold that saves intermediate results? < 1307564896 249615 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307564907 471349 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (*) [1..] < 1307564908 274019 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,6,24,120,720,5040,40320,362880,3628800,39916800,479001600,6227020800,8... < 1307564945 244670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1307564945 967990 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) [1,3..] < 1307564946 943450 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,48... < 1307564948 178103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to have a programming language that actually made you feel strongly physically uncomfortable when you tried to programi n it < 1307564953 984452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a real step forward in esoteric programming < 1307564987 856385 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so that means you really appreciate Snack, then? >:P < 1307564994 562633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1307565023 93529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god dammit Maharba, adding new operations to syl :( < 1307565075 680328 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the positive of it, you have to learn how to program in a highly modular and modifiable way :P < 1307565106 431946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1307565118 433286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for the inevitable talk page comment < 1307565123 245299 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr f x [a,b,c,d] < 1307565123 969094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Expr] < 1307565128 454824 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1307565135 908691 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr f x [a,b,c,d] :: [Expr] < 1307565136 807258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [f a (f b (f c (f d x))),f b (f c (f d x)),f c (f d x),f d x,x] < 1307565150 960484 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly ais523 left < 1307565183 980867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :left us bleeding < 1307565390 570981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : god dammit Maharba, adding new operations to syl :( <-- implement syl version whatever < 1307565464 419145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t f < 1307565465 216458 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => a < 1307565470 782080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1307565476 224881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t < 1307565479 27434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t SimpleReflect.FromExpr < 1307565479 837513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `SimpleReflect.FromExpr' < 1307565486 278983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::info SimpleReflect.FromExp < 1307565486 441702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i SimpleReflect.FromExpr < 1307565486 986175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::info SimpleReflect.FromExpr < 1307565490 28419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src SimpleReflect.FromExpr < 1307565490 318401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I feel much better now. < 1307565492 500893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src FromExpr < 1307565492 701093 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. stty: unknown mode: doofus < 1307565493 333286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::info SimpleReflect.FromExpr < 1307565501 100141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle simplereflect < 1307565501 372449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1307565502 770752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?google simplereflect < 1307565504 202682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh where is it < 1307565506 167312 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-reflect < 1307565506 434133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: HackageDB: simple-reflect-0.2 < 1307565519 401433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1307565526 673711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t a < 1307565527 740395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1307565529 873749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1307565553 5036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t hasd < 1307565553 775681 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `hasd' < 1307565557 679271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1307565586 462746 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made all single letters be Expr, except f g h which have an overloaded type which can be used for functions < 1307565586 730761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t g < 1307565587 555646 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => a < 1307565592 332818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307565655 783744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK what is the deal with the weak force. < 1307565672 124059 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people call it a force. < 1307565673 849372 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. < 1307565680 103950 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even all that weak. < 1307565684 954445 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum [a,b,c,d] < 1307565685 829183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 + a + b + c + d < 1307565690 816057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is weak compared to the strong force iirc? < 1307565700 673033 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Num instance is _really_ primitive < 1307565732 312532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1307565752 431905 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even simplify 0 + away :P < 1307565764 125821 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes, but it's not that much weaker, and I think both electromagnetism and gravity are weaker still. < 1307565767 21015 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanr1 (+) [a,b,c,d] < 1307565767 893453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [a + (b + (c + d)),b + (c + d),c + d,d] < 1307565771 403766 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1307565776 744375 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr1 (+) [a,b,c,d] < 1307565777 748579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a + (b + (c + d)) < 1307565779 195002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, gravity certainly is < 1307565783 774956 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be damned, there's actually something that's not sufficiently supported in musl. < 1307565790 255524 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl does not have wcsdup. < 1307565798 292545 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wchar_t analogue of strdup. < 1307565808 350102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like < 1307565808 871361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, easy to implement yourself < 1307565810 131624 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think they used to be called weak and strong _nuclear_ force < 1307565812 569560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a whole three lines to implement ZOMG :D < 1307565821 428147 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere that word got dropped < 1307565835 137257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what's the strongest weak force you know of in't < 1307565840 836610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which is half right, but it still doesn't actually behave as a force. < 1307565852 511428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh? < 1307565879 679625 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307565890 423533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the only example of its effects that anyone who isn't a particle physicist knows about is beta decay. < 1307565903 634897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... a decay, not a force in the conventional sense. < 1307565905 463130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah < 1307565916 29865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but for those who are particle physicists? < 1307565957 882971 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*For now*, I'll just tell the build system that there's no wide character support. < 1307565976 605506 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But later, I'll actually add a wcsdup. < 1307565980 302922 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well presumably that decay can happen because there is a weak force between neutrinos and quarks? < 1307565985 177250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some more neutrino/nucleon interactions it's involved with, although they still don't work that forcily. < 1307566022 759289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it's more like a down quark spontaneously emits a W- boson which then decays into an electron and an antineutrino. < 1307566054 30030 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you could say all electromagnetism is is decay of excited charged particles into non-excited particles and photons :P < 1307566055 691268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is a quark end of discussion < 1307566082 925303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you don't have , though. < 1307566084 497296 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i _think_) < 1307566124 548744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There does seem to be a normal stuff-flies-apart-or-moves-together interaction between nucleons and neutrinos, though. < 1307566130 971477 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've seen the word "interaction" used instead of force, i think < 1307566143 609060 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably for this kind of reason < 1307566147 83782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's a much better name. < 1307566300 629826 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOUR UNPORTABLE USE OF sys/types.h. < 1307566320 323261 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sudden switch to lowercase there makes it look quite amusing. < 1307566324 430403 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"quad_t" is a BSD-ism, dammit. What you want is int64_t. < 1307566340 301522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm just going to inline labels inside < 1307566342 623898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you were yelling at someone and suddenly composed yourself and said "sys slash types dot h". < 1307566347 177088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the actual backends will have no problem with it... I think < 1307566530 547279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is travelling salesman NP-complete or NP-hard? < 1307566534 259170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1307566564 129437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course if it is the former it is also the latter < 1307566758 376846 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats head against wall < 1307566768 245084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1307566774 573466 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the decision version is NP-complete < 1307566777 979743 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *literally* has a part that requires inb and outb. < 1307566781 916426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course < 1307566789 164917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what part? hwclock? < 1307566793 42396 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1307566796 540140 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was unaware that was permitted outside of ring 0. < 1307566808 612908 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess where that comes from? < 1307566810 12104 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc! < 1307566810 890169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, uh you need CAP_SOMETHING for it < 1307566824 266273 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Linux stopped exporting those, because THAT IS FUCKING STUPID. < 1307566832 863474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAP_SYS_RAWIO < 1307566842 994249 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING. STUPID. < 1307566843 235187 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sort of parser is easier for a newbie at writing parsers to write? < 1307566844 294400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so you can't do it then? < 1307566855 456661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does glibc do it then < 1307566856 513822 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to. < 1307566866 180281 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc has embedded ASM. < 1307566868 896688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway doesn't hwclock use /dev/rtc these days? < 1307566870 193881 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the header. < 1307566875 957782 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can't copy glibc anyways < 1307566905 273114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you painfully-obvious license laeyer < 1307566906 211945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawyer < 1307566927 115046 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why not? LGPL 2.1+ is entirely compatible with LGPL 2.1+. < 1307566944 964359 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I refuse to because GOD NO. < 1307566957 35725 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not something that belongs in a libc. At all. < 1307567032 666178 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, I didn't realize glibc was still on 2.1 < 1307567036 614631 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top down parsers can't accomodate all context-free grammars, iiuc < 1307567047 237224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if my language even is context-free :/ < 1307567067 5639 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1307567091 384983 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My lambda syntax is flawed, there's no way to specify return type < 1307567114 204797 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, could always type-infer < 1307567141 967675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so change the language then < 1307567145 651888 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have enough backtracking, i'm pretty sure top down can do anything CF... but perhaps not always efficiently < 1307567161 980032 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and the header was once asm/io.h, from Linux < 1307567168 516417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Sgeo is talking about grammars, mentally blocks him. < 1307567174 543060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so copy it from there? < 1307567182 687166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does it do it btw? < 1307567210 584886 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess context-free would make my life much easier? < 1307567222 240238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1307567245 587029 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :context-free unambiguous LR(1) < 1307567253 17287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no LL(1) < 1307567256 853317 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, hwclock is the *one thing* stopping me from having util-linux building. < 1307567264 400124 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what LL(1) means < 1307567265 563114 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah that's even easier < 1307567283 836927 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: LL(1) are essentially languages for which top-down is ridiculously easy < 1307567295 164840 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I'm not committed to top-down < 1307567295 700297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well then why use hwclock. Aren't modern kernels able to do the job themselves? < 1307567310 626827 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, s/top-down/recursive descent/ iirc < 1307567310 814669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, python is LL(1) < 1307567332 504948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what about LL(0) < 1307567334 423606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1307567335 635169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1307567340 754048 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well everything other than recursive descent is relatively unfeasible to write by _hand_ < 1307567345 159322 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1307567350 729540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, there? < 1307567354 478490 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do want the syntax to be vaguey LSL-like < 1307567362 552904 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a parser generator < 1307567364 469085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, WHY < 1307567368 851946 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Well, I can do a *nasty* hack to get it to build. < 1307567373 244036 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for L(AL)R(1) stuff < 1307567378 303786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is that hack < 1307567388 925342 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can replace its "#include " with #undef __i386__ < 1307567394 303332 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, to make things easy for others who I will convince to use my language < 1307567421 959426 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there good parser generators that output parsers in Javascript? < 1307567423 911650 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(asm/io.h is conditionally included if the system doesn't have sys/io.h. Incidentally, asm/io.h should not exist anywhere, as it's not a header the kernel *intends* to export.) < 1307567434 936210 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the syntax ends up making the language harder for everyone < 1307567449 654283 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it's hard to pick up a new syntax < 1307567451 693456 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: unless your syntax is completely insane, it can probably at least be refactored to be mostly LR(1). < 1307567451 855896 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By doing this, hwclock will not be able to access the BIOS clock directly, and will have to function through alternate means. < 1307567455 783465 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless second life people are dumb < 1307567494 232884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or you could just remove the code for the BIOS clock completely < 1307567503 765799 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the technical requirement for LL(1) is that which subrule to use for parsing a token always is determined by the first terminal token you see < 1307567504 61326 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering that my language _will_ make race conditions more of a possibility than they are in LSL, maybe I should hope SL people aren't dumb < 1307567504 915430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Humour for Haskell programmers: http://solog.co/47/10-scala-one-liners-to-impress-your-friends/ < 1307567510 809227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1307567510 971744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 to 10) map { _ * 2 } < 1307567512 687102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW < 1307567519 504667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : unless second life people are dumb <-- spot on < 1307567544 782417 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: iirc there was a haskell version posted (which showed the author obviously didn't know much haskell) < 1307567570 73474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boring people should stop having blogs :P < 1307567577 837257 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://blog.fogus.me/2011/06/03/10-haskell-one-liners-to-impress-your-friends/ ) < 1307567586 148151 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (* 2) [1 .. 10] -- alternatively, [1, 2 .. 10], right? < 1307567590 196942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the author of the solog thing post or fogus? < 1307567593 438213 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like the way they're completely oblivious that their programs are half boilerplate. < 1307567607 599861 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: as long as your grammar mainly has that property, it is easy to parse top-down/with recursive descent < 1307567630 391714 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok so maybe it isn't the same author < 1307567645 561535 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you mean the one in /r/Haskell? < 1307567649 531663 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ime it's easier to write compilers when you know what you're doing < 1307567650 541735 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1307567655 397481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I wonder how long I could convince someone that you're a bot < 1307567655 683807 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then. I can hack util-linux into building with musl. < 1307567658 1290 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, quick example? < 1307567665 881317 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that is the one in /r/Haskell. < 1307567672 631892 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fnord < 1307567680 551387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indefinitely, then < 1307567681 41530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, remember wide string stuff < 1307567681 203896 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pong < 1307567692 65799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ( See also: Deewiant human is not a bot. ) < 1307567699 240997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : haha who added that factoid < 1307567703 994106 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well Pascal is sort of a star example of this. nearly every declaration starts with a keyword identifying what kind it is, e.g. Var X : Integer; < 1307567706 63713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, are there actually any linguistics questions on /r/AskScience. < 1307567714 907765 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: occasionally! < 1307567716 58550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: its not a real science so no :trollface: < 1307567731 753303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was designed to be easy to parse. as i think are all wirth languages. < 1307567735 395473 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why do you ask? < 1307567746 965031 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TBhV < 1307567750 223142 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, how hard could it be once I have the AST? Just turn expressions into function calls and lambdas, then convert to CPS, then convert to bytecode < 1307567756 212251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"byte"code < 1307567762 532171 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I do still need to add that to musl. < 1307567765 566057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, dunno, just saw you were a panellist. < 1307567767 253217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: very few languages are LL(1), you should note :P < 1307567773 204345 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: anyone can be a panelist :P < 1307567774 438694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you can't have both "x = y" and "f(x)" < 1307567778 881704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because both start with an identifier < 1307567779 765130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is POSIX 2008 it seems yeah < 1307567785 870060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's a real science, in the same way as anthropology is a 'science'. < 1307567794 150830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or computer science. < 1307567796 303807 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but do you know how to do those < 1307567798 367317 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: C on the other hand is not LL(1) < 1307567798 529790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interesting bits are mathematics AFAIK. < 1307567805 5024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or physics. < 1307567807 863223 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser < 1307567808 25402 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, how hard could it be? < 1307567809 612933 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: its even more real than that! we have an MEG machine and an MRI machine! < 1307567812 69678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or biology. < 1307567812 759672 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE! \o/ < 1307567813 111804 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :         ¦ < 1307567813 274389 :myndzi!myndzi@c-98-247-234-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :        ´¸¨ < 1307567813 554512 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you can fix that example with a little refactoring < 1307567817 207505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, study of actual human languages is a science-as-in-physics-science. < 1307567818 360668 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you myndzi < 1307567820 282798 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive missed you < 1307567821 130427 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, not the foggiest idea (ok, a somewhat foggy idea) < 1307567824 575685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser monqy, how hard could it be? < 1307567825 611238 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​443) Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser monqy, how hard could it be? < 1307567840 957939 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1307567841 120826 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wouldnt go so far as to say that < 1307567851 774272 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: x = y and f(x) are both ok as long as they don't parse to different nonterminal tokens < 1307567853 32539 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How hard could it be" should NOT go with "parser" < 1307567855 106448 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsers are actually easy if you know what you're doing < 1307567855 458874 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build with --disable-shared --disable-libmount --disable-schedutils, and comment out the HAVE_WIDECHAR. < 1307567856 702409 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its more akin to logic and some aspects of computer science < 1307567858 364622 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was meant to go with the other stuff < 1307567863 888623 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in config.h < 1307567866 692472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1307567869 738169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "--- util-linux-2.19.1/text-utils/#display.c# 1969-12-31 17:00:00.000000000 -0700" < 1307567873 34367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, patch fail < 1307567882 639197 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yes, but is some amount of linguistics attempting to model human communication? < 1307567891 375901 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what I saw: < 1307567894 517078 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy, how hard could it be? < 1307567894 679715 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser < 1307567901 131269 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1307567910 443083 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe a handful of people < 1307567915 192476 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's what I saw too. < 1307567917 965459 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Argh, fuck emacs. < 1307567921 356338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw it the way I added it. < 1307567927 936337 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "how hard could it be" was directed towards program transformation < 1307567928 418985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complaints will be ignored; humour comes above accuracy. < 1307567937 589399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not an invitation to add me saying "lol im a fag". < 1307567964 457112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits the inevitable < 1307567967 367713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag". < 1307567968 494235 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​444) This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag". < 1307567974 566735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote ​444 < 1307567975 700855 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307567978 733700 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :program transformation is a lot more interesting than parsing, at least < 1307567979 556640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh the power I wield. < 1307567981 90209 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag". < 1307567982 142954 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​445) This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag". < 1307567989 149435 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I meant to fix that error. < 1307567995 2311 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 444 < 1307567996 300907 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​444) This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag". < 1307567996 700614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh delquote is still broken < 1307568004 684992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: sgeo should learn compiler-writing from sylladex < 1307568007 297848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is schedutils? < 1307568012 975969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and libmount? < 1307568021 376281 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sylladex? < 1307568034 845826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits elliott's inevitable facepalm. < 1307568053 729913 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: schedutils lets you change the realtime priority of processes; relies on some POSIX 2008 features that musl doesn't support. < 1307568053 892823 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just Googled, first hits were what I thought you weren't referring to < 1307568065 284245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1307568069 265218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its got everything, full parser, optimiser, stack-based VM intermediate language, assembly backend... < 1307568075 181398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incremental compilation... < 1307568076 266511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and libmount? < 1307568077 17407 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: libmount is an experimental mounting library that seems buggy that's unnecessary, that I didn't want to fuck with. < 1307568082 873108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1307568085 270565 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all for SyL? < 1307568091 905319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes. < 1307568101 898122 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this gets you a *pretty much* complete util-linux. < 1307568110 229776 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a serious language for serious business < 1307568118 464361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you don't KNOW how sleek it will be to compile the gtk+ ffi example. < 1307568118 907794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, *oh* is it schedtool? < 1307568120 869294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I use it < 1307568121 979304 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1307568122 994479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't know. < 1307568130 991930 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope type inference isn't difficult < 1307568139 217534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I hope type inference isn't difficult < 1307568140 495775 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing *wrong* with it at all, it just uses some interfaces musl doesn't have yet. < 1307568140 658260 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​446) I hope type inference isn't difficult < 1307568152 619721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I run hdapsd with real time privs it seems < 1307568158 759810 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, what's wrong with delquote? < 1307568159 450917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the init script does < 1307568165 106450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: its broken in some way that i dont know how < 1307568169 455473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which is very sensible < 1307568174 261503 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas just about everything I patched in util-linux is *actual fucking bugs*. < 1307568179 863229 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That musl happened to trigger. < 1307568190 551406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, send those patches upstream < 1307568199 475186 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to. < 1307568202 788209 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time I learned how to do type inference < 1307568205 62191 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty cool < 1307568207 867641 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% forgotten < 1307568260 425451 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at lifetime of variable. If it has two incompatible types, fail typechecking. If type of variable is omitted at one location, no big deal. < 1307568264 926862 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds easy < 1307568275 287118 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably more complicated than that. < 1307568292 491032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: its broken in some way that i dont know how <-- do a binary search over the revisions to find it? < 1307568295 515677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say that one day Sgeo will look back on these logs and ... but then i realised < 1307568298 423554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably won't < 1307568302 170028 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehheheheheheh < 1307568321 543917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I invite you to fix it. < 1307568332 63807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why me < 1307568343 154880 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem like a man who knows what he's doing. < 1307568348 863917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if you fix it i'll give you minecraft. < 1307568354 399419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1307568355 541516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run url $(type delquote) < 1307568355 862524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR DECISION < 1307568356 743667 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delquote < 1307568386 752639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: delquote@6875624d657a: not found in manifest < 1307568388 134469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fu < 1307568391 713067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clap < 1307568392 238821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clap < 1307568392 909517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clap < 1307568394 562250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clap < 1307568396 899543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what < 1307568401 238183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls delquote < 1307568402 256785 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307568402 784369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/delquote < 1307568403 840483 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​bin/delquote < 1307568410 391554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I did use type dammit < 1307568410 749878 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I hope type inference isn't difficult <-- ok now you are in _way_ over your head < 1307568414 784972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type delquote < 1307568415 876805 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​delquote is /tmp/hackenv.30916/bin/delquote < 1307568418 73714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1307568419 506515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1307568426 441672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sadly, I think he was way in over his head as soon as he went from lexing to parsing. < 1307568442 983322 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo did lexing? < 1307568459 839468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: he... ostensibly knows what lexing is. < 1307568462 261253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1307568470 117211 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so proud < 1307568477 541145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexing isn't really hard < 1307568481 777076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing can be < 1307568488 926478 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i was deducing from the fact he finds parsing tricky < 1307568491 804522 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: as I said earlier, writing a compiler is easier when you know what you're doing < 1307568513 670891 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means type inference will be completely impenetrable < 1307568536 431779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, how *does* type inference work? < 1307568547 81220 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Lemme just check that it builds with glibc still. *Should*, but hey. < 1307568549 268060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, but I bet I could learn < 1307568568 966482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: depends if you mean like C[hash] style or full Hindley-Milner or even beyond that < 1307568585 992712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is ridiculously simple. < 1307568590 379851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lets start with the simplest one and work upwards from there :P < 1307568604 133952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle isn't simple, but it's not hard to get a hang of. < 1307568607 84882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter gets a bit gnarly. < 1307568610 98853 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it doesn't. < 1307568616 243329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, how does the middle one work then. < 1307568616 405610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well the first one is like a totally different breed to the latter < 1307568619 949101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you have to do is know the types of literals < 1307568620 787789 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits/user.h DNE... < 1307568621 121647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like < 1307568623 455529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what types functions return < 1307568624 349720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah right < 1307568624 600275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're done < 1307568627 128389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1307568629 68076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1307568636 626438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since functions in C# can't return var < 1307568642 231764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle one works like ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_inference#Hindley.E2.80.93Milner_type_inference_algorithm < 1307568650 292444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be perfectly honest, I couldn't describe H-M without having the description in front of me < 1307568664 87733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the last one I don't even know what it is < 1307568667 892531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: haskell < 1307568671 601691 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I learned H-M when I learened type inference < 1307568678 7123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't haskell use H-M? < 1307568681 390998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell with one or two extensions gives you the absolute most you can fully infer, basically < 1307568685 825610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it uses H-M with extensions < 1307568691 342743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what extensions? < 1307568697 201721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeclasses f.e. < 1307568708 533896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "fancy" haskell stuff isn't fully inferrable. < 1307568715 481221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just like haskell ninetyeight is. < 1307568717 220846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a bit extra. < 1307568725 524349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1307568754 304934 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for ghc, heaps of them. basically if someone invents a new type idea that is mostly inferable, it'll probably end up in ghc :P < 1307568757 67380 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, there is no good place for pulling __WORDSIZE. < 1307568766 928344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and even if it isn't < 1307568768 435666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah < 1307568814 744430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan i was reading that talk page and you had a comment so i clicked on your contribs and < 1307568818 668871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have [[7 (number)]] on your watchlist < 1307568819 147367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why < 1307568824 880152 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1307568840 145013 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, lemme check why i edited that < 1307568846 934718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:22, 20 January 2011 (diff | hist) 7 (number) ‎ (Undid revision 408789001 by 84.252.249.235 (talk) (1+1 is not a composite number)) < 1307568847 97550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:46, 12 January 2011 (diff | hist) m 7 (number) ‎ (fix spelling) < 1307568851 460873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWICE, oerjan, TWICE :D < 1307568854 289066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it your synchronicity number < 1307568857 75211 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i _do_ however have Type Inference on my watchlist < 1307568871 675130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guessed, and probably [[esoteric programming language]] too < 1307568877 561225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've said you watch [[look-and-say sequence]] in here before < 1307568877 800453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1307568883 650202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i know so much about what wp pages you watchlist < 1307568889 991563 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh. i have a policy of following an article's changes for about a week after i've edited it < 1307568890 268549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crisis of introspection < 1307568919 929519 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so since those are 8 days apart, it falls under that < 1307568937 666656 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: correct on [[esoteric programming language]] :P < 1307569094 121118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK IWC's new poll is hurting my brain. < 1307569105 674811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really really hope DMM isn't going to go all pretentious on it. < 1307569106 151899 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: heh < 1307569157 561237 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-212.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : mji < 1307569171 47833 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, best way of faking __WORDSIZE (which, realistically, is meaningless) is CHAR_BIT*sizeof(void*)... < 1307569180 658959 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: last time DMM removed the old poll without putting up a new one. someone joked about it by making up options on the forum. i recognize several of them in the newest one. < 1307569228 512065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :random mouse-waving and clicking picks baarle-nassau for me < 1307569236 750683 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think this is one is based on forum ideas < 1307569266 11640 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i picked those spheres as they were the only thing i hadn't heard about before < 1307569477 728040 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was an interesting wikipedia article on them < 1307569506 98241 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :baarle-nassau is a good choice though :P < 1307569576 211647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the thing with baarle-nassau < 1307569579 396984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it because it has complicated borders < 1307569581 316586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol pediawiki < 1307569582 773395 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1307569584 383548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok right border < 1307569653 41915 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems the patch is *much* shorter on a git checkout. < 1307569678 800121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i come from land < 1307569679 760679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ojias < 1307569707 326895 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the patch? is shorter? < 1307569717 439110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the patch? is shorter? < 1307569720 57391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ojias < 1307569721 39147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the patch? is shorter? < 1307569730 933822 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let shm = unwords . sequence [id, ("shm"++).dropWhile(`notElem`"aeiou")] in shm "elliott" < 1307569731 170928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error: in < 1307569734 635762 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1307569739 782235 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let shm = unwords . sequence [id, ("shm"++).dropWhile(`notElem`"aeiou")] in shm "elliott" < 1307569741 586830 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "elliott shmelliott" < 1307569747 719140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh ooh ooh < 1307569761 77319 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let shm = unwords . sequence [id, ("shm"++).dropWhile(`notElem`"aeiou")] < 1307569762 230903 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1307569771 106358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let thanks = ("Th"++) . dropWhile (`notElem` "aeiou") in thanks "elliott" < 1307569772 666677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Thelliott" < 1307569785 697804 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1307569792 708929 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> shm "thanks" < 1307569794 220366 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "thanks shmanks" < 1307569799 911914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let thanks xs = (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile (`notElem` "aeiou") in thanks "elliott" < 1307569800 706481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show < 1307569800 937150 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([GHC.... < 1307569809 918818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let thanks xs = (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile (`notElem` "aeiou") $ xs in thanks "elliott" < 1307569811 429992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Thanks, elliott. Thelliott" < 1307569816 817290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toLowerCase < 1307569817 646913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `toLowerCase' < 1307569820 501580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle lower < 1307569820 797962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Char lower :: Stream s m Char => ParsecT s u m Char < 1307569820 960699 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Char lower :: Stream s m Char => ParsecT s u m Char < 1307569820 960811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Char LowercaseLetter :: GeneralCategory < 1307569824 826305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle lowercase < 1307569825 58937 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Char LowercaseLetter :: GeneralCategory < 1307569826 227825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle downcase < 1307569826 705642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1307569828 286074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1307569828 448627 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toLower < 1307569829 389639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Char -> Char < 1307569839 112371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let thanks xs = (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs in thanks "ants" < 1307569840 105164 :pikhq!~pikhq@71.219.232.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The patch to get util-linux to build with musl. < 1307569840 657873 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Thanks, ants. Thants" < 1307569846 353865 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> shm "wyrd" < 1307569847 999973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "wyrd shm" < 1307569848 608385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let thanks xs = (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs in thanks "ants" < 1307569850 184467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Thanks, ants. Thants." < 1307569851 953797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let thanks xs = (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs in thanks "Elliott" < 1307569853 421133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Thanks, Elliott. ThElliott." < 1307569855 318842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t isVowel < 1307569856 113095 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `isVowel' < 1307569858 6636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1307569862 369330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was hoping there'd be a fancy Unicode thing for it < 1307569871 9807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?let thanks xs = (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs < 1307569872 20397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1307569872 976696 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no fancy Unicode stuff in base < 1307569874 337268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "lambdabot" < 1307569875 917710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Thanks, lambdabot. Thambdabot." < 1307569882 329921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?let thanks xs = text . (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs < 1307569882 912329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :6:12: < 1307569883 95818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[Char]' against inferred ty... < 1307569886 324014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unlet thanks < 1307569886 537365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : TemplateHaskell is not enabled < 1307569887 998743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1307569892 67802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you redefine < 1307569913 718274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?undef < 1307569916 336947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?undefine < 1307569920 1589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?let thanks xs = text . (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs < 1307569920 778989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1307569924 990271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Deewiant" < 1307569926 526223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Deewiant. Theewiant. < 1307569929 317259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1307569941 625948 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "wyrd" < 1307569943 177306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, wyrd. Th. < 1307569964 813924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1307569971 65396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?undefine < 1307569974 805589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t any < 1307569975 947864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool < 1307569986 587981 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "QUEEN" < 1307569987 374939 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `thanks' < 1307569990 207407 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : was hoping there'd be a fancy Unicode thing for it <-- you realize languages don't agree on which letters are vowels, right? :P < 1307569995 410110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?let thanks xs = if any ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) then text . (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs else text "What are you, Welsh?" < 1307569996 4104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:15: < 1307569996 187174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Bool' < 1307569996 349976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against i... < 1307570001 217177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?let thanks xs = if any ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) xs then text . (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs else text "What are you, Welsh?" < 1307570002 44835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1307570005 28303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "wyrd" < 1307570006 543944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, wyrd. Th. < 1307570009 398972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1307570018 468954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1307570021 375394 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "QUEEN" < 1307570022 946733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, QUEEN. ThUEEN. < 1307570025 636876 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 'w' `notElem` "aeiou" < 1307570026 573093 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1307570029 537600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1307570035 632939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?undefine < 1307570040 118910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?let thanks xs = if any ((`elem` "aeiou") . toLower) xs then text . (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs else text "What are you, Welsh?" < 1307570040 923745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1307570042 215218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "wyrd" < 1307570043 614186 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : What are you, Welsh? < 1307570047 280835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Deewiant" < 1307570048 839863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Deewiant. Theewiant. < 1307570053 84857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERFECT. < 1307570079 421164 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "cymru" < 1307570080 858491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, cymru. Thu. < 1307570091 906099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "antidisestablishmentarianism" < 1307570093 430492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, antidisestablishmentarianism. Thantidisestablishmentarianism. < 1307570093 775040 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, missed that one :/ < 1307570098 766440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: nothing wrong with Thu < 1307570104 176156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Tchaikovsky" < 1307570105 638013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Tchaikovsky. Thaikovsky. < 1307570107 425763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1307570110 342671 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "why" < 1307570111 778511 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "thanks" < 1307570111 941109 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : What are you, Welsh? < 1307570113 413015 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, thanks. Thanks. < 1307570129 735206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually realise what this is from :P < 1307570132 772058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "thunks" < 1307570134 248318 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, thunks. Thunks. < 1307570136 397087 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1307570139 365361 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix thanks < 1307570140 182060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' < 1307570140 364265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ty... < 1307570141 572186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "sknaht" < 1307570143 90075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, sknaht. Thaht. < 1307570154 572261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jtU9BbReQk < 1307570160 972685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forty seconds) < 1307570179 958559 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it uses weird shenanigans to print text < 1307570197 643604 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you get a string from that somehow, so that it works with fix? < 1307570200 37141 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (show . thanks) "thanks" < 1307570201 534652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["thanks","Thanks, thanks. Thanks.","Thanks, Thanks, thanks. Thanks.. Thank... < 1307570208 967505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let thanks' xs = (++ ".") . (("Thanks, " ++ xs ++ ". Th") ++) . dropWhile ((`notElem` "aeiou") . toLower) $ xs in fix thanks' < 1307570210 948902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, Th... < 1307570220 988620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Kant" < 1307570222 680039 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Kant. Thant. < 1307570234 909269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "smorgasbord" < 1307570236 621486 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, smorgasbord. Thorgasbord. < 1307570240 172110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thorgasbord < 1307570254 176500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, presumably quite electric? < 1307570261 169660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Knuth" < 1307570262 657928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Knuth. Thuth. < 1307570270 472737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "William Blake" < 1307570272 31213 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, William Blake. Thilliam Blake. < 1307570285 416260 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "västkustskt" < 1307570286 897756 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, v < 1307570287 60244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "lambdabot" < 1307570288 686660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, lambdabot. Thambdabot. < 1307570290 982809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch" < 1307570292 486174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. Thanfai... < 1307570295 163044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1307570311 726681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, your definition fails as olsner showed < 1307570322 490098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: give me a perfect vowel function < 1307570326 764986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect lambdabot fails at encoding itself < 1307570327 708460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or text does < 1307570330 311099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i could not fix it anyway < 1307570334 929566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "fucking" < 1307570336 476297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, fucking. Thucking. < 1307570342 71971 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think both/all fail at encoding < 1307570349 833689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "oobleck" < 1307570351 408141 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, oobleck. Thoobleck. < 1307570352 439295 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that's how it usually goes < 1307570353 851624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheehehehehehe < 1307570364 255818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, perfect vowel can't be done. y is not a vowel in English is it? < 1307570365 602543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Istanbul" < 1307570367 133811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Istanbul. ThIstanbul. < 1307570367 295992 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in Swedish < 1307570370 577703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sometimes it is :P < 1307570372 128104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "istanbul" < 1307570373 697347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, istanbul. Thistanbul. < 1307570380 374287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Mercury" < 1307570381 837478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Mercury. Thercury. < 1307570437 679009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks (fix show) < 1307570441 654679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1307570443 806745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1307570446 320184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks ants < 1307570447 293039 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `ants' < 1307570451 79888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "mueval-core: Time limit exceeded" < 1307570452 787346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, mueval-core: Time limit exceeded. Thueval-core: Time limit exceeded. < 1307570455 488180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "ants" < 1307570456 936067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, ants. Thants. < 1307570464 23832 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "Hanks" < 1307570465 428841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Hanks. Thanks. < 1307570467 351445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix < 1307570468 319050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a < 1307570469 878760 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thueval Core < 1307570473 702625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is fix? < 1307570479 674359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1307570492 398483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1307570496 141382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not even Vorpal. < 1307570501 906543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just plain stupidity. < 1307570506 417611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tried < 1307570514 442629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tried < 1307570526 275680 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_point_combinator < 1307570530 559698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I'm tried < 1307570531 61770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1307570531 773807 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​447) I'm tried < 1307570537 942620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1307570539 247637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, why'd you ruin the fun? < 1307570540 981244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, tired* < 1307570546 778716 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bad at not ruining the fun < 1307570549 337032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "but no thanks" < 1307570550 938688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, but no thanks. Thut no thanks. < 1307570559 418568 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix show < 1307570560 444165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... < 1307570565 762393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "archaeopteryx" < 1307570567 414016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, archaeopteryx. Tharchaeopteryx. < 1307570570 763641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tharchaeopteryx < 1307570578 139911 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes, but I'm trying to get you to fix delquote. < 1307570583 665410 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Through MANIPULATION. < 1307570586 988215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, meh < 1307570587 734687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just apply delquote to itself, infinite times < 1307570591 523277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry oerjan stole ur wind < 1307570593 238701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail quotes < 1307570596 692109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "combine" < 1307570597 260891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tail quotes < 1307570598 227940 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, combine. Thombine. < 1307570598 390190 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ Fiddle. It makes a big difference, you know. \ but touchscreens should feel like poking a boob \ are there boobs you wack and squeeze around to move the mouse? [...] like those little nipples in laptop keyboards, but they'd be full-blown boobies \ [after a long string of Lymia getting < 1307570603 510731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "tapestry" < 1307570605 132146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, tapestry. Thapestry. < 1307570605 798332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tail -n1 quotes < 1307570606 182321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> thanks "oligarchy" < 1307570606 988625 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307570607 689483 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, oligarchy. Tholigarchy. < 1307570611 299600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail -n1 quotes < 1307570612 539490 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ I'm tried < 1307570623 31000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run wc -l quotes < 1307570623 630351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote `run tail -n1 quotes < 1307570624 179713 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​447 quotes < 1307570624 820400 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​448) `run tail -n1 quotes < 1307570640 330837 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I CANNOT REMOVE A LINE FROM A FILE < 1307570641 513510 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​449) I CANNOT REMOVE A LINE FROM A FILE < 1307570648 379897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ALSO I SMELL FUNNY < 1307570648 966594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote lets just leave all these in < 1307570649 447108 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​450) ALSO I SMELL FUNNY < 1307570650 54946 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​450) lets just leave all these in < 1307570653 436663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote lets just leave all these in < 1307570654 534394 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​451) lets just leave all these in < 1307570658 733320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote someone in the future will be really confused < 1307570659 729185 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​459) someone in the future will be really confused < 1307570660 408316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run head -n 446 quotes > t; mv t quotes < 1307570660 730065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 450 < 1307570661 501655 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307570662 952897 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​450) <<<<<<< /tmp/hackenv.1231/quotes < 1307570664 696341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1307570666 643849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 450 < 1307570666 810713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1307570667 835040 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​450) `run tail -n1 quotes < 1307570670 998007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone < 1307570672 99920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to do < 1307570673 886118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual surgery < 1307570675 98771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the file < 1307570678 655692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 450 < 1307570680 78001 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​450) `run tail -n1 quotes < 1307570682 694233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to you guys < 1307570687 957481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to bed. < 1307570691 307344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if you want the slander there forevr... < 1307570703 233068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1307570704 271395 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1307570721 47170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I kick puppies for sport! < 1307570722 182958 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​463) I kick puppies for sport! < 1307570729 824190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 389 < 1307570731 467766 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1307570740 268144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he doesn't like that one < 1307570750 626634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I simply fixed it < 1307570751 410805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I kick puppies for sport[AN EXCLAMATION MARK APPEARED HERE IN REALITY] < 1307570752 461058 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​447) I kick puppies for sport[AN EXCLAMATION MARK APPEARED HERE IN REALITY] < 1307570755 196204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 389 < 1307570756 656764 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1307570758 213003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I kick puppies for sport[AN EXCLAMATION MARK APPEARED HERE IN REALITY] < 1307570759 337851 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​447) I kick puppies for sport[AN EXCLAMATION MARK APPEARED HERE IN REALITY] < 1307570779 629719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you didn't fix delquote though < 1307570786 54807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Nice, fucking this corpse. < 1307570787 198204 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​448) Nice, fucking this corpse. < 1307570798 734433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can be nasty too < 1307570805 925976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1307570817 608197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm closing the lid, will time out soon < 1307570819 963189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1307570827 656517 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such a Vorpal thing to add. < 1307570871 786184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote You know what's better than three dead babies? I'll tell you what's better than three dead babies. The only thing, on this Earth, or not on this Earth, that could possibly be said to be dead babies, is as follows: Dead babies, i.e. two of them, are excellent, but there is one thing that is superior to them in every aspect, and that thing I am now going to detail to you. The only thing better than four dead babies is: about to b < 1307570872 23698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e revealed. I shall reveal it now. The only thing better than nine dead babies is four dead babies, but that is a lie, because there is only one thing better than three dead babies, and it is this: < 1307570872 930420 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​449) You know what's better than three dead babies? I'll tell you what's better than three dead babies. The only thing, on this Earth, or not on this Earth, that could possibly be said to be dead babies, is as follows: Dead babies, i.e. two of them, are excellent, but there is one thing that is superior to them in < 1307570879 51830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it got cut off. < 1307570884 355376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we will just have to leave it at that. < 1307570902 498572 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Also I kick puppies. < 1307570903 467922 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​450) Also I kick puppies. < 1307570940 246344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote im ban you for puppy kick < 1307570941 514713 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​451) im ban you for puppy kick < 1307570957 164765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 390 < 1307570958 601799 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1307570964 35997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ​449 < 1307570965 58671 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307570967 774358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ​44​448 < 1307570968 879061 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307570969 338613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ​44​48 < 1307570970 335457 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307570972 227806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ​44​8 < 1307570973 570519 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1307570976 251812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1307570977 183772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1307570985 856265 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 447 < 1307570986 995038 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​447) I'm tried < 1307570996 130213 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOU AM PLAY GODS < 1307571006 108702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im ban you for puppy kick < 1307571015 353902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, fucking this corpse. < 1307571037 367249 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep. < 1307571070 454089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1307571123 835968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1307571136 665656 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... you make me tried < 1307571169 140717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, fucking this corpse. < 1307571184 40025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ... you make me tried Nice, fucking this corpse. < 1307571185 197700 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​448) ... you make me tried Nice, fucking this corpse. < 1307571412 336248 :foocraft_!~ewanas@89.211.214.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1307571413 373410 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.225.198 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1307571747 45068 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :K :> L < 1307571790 753767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ionnonoinoinoino < 1307571795 179213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, fucking this corpse. < 1307571874 804033 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking nice corpse < 1307571875 655917 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1307571943 786385 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1307572141 1828 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var < 1307572141 988191 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1307572156 294752 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1307572162 570479 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fun < 1307572163 342305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => String -> a < 1307572170 883054 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1307572179 19378 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "hm..." < 1307572179 856462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm... < 1307572197 799378 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ repeat 'a' < 1307572198 589989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... < 1307572230 213225 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "a" + var "b" < 1307572231 19471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a+b < 1307572233 472995 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "a" + var "a" < 1307572234 264213 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a+a < 1307572243 74557 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t a < 1307572243 824300 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1307572245 417352 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-89-219.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1307572245 719465 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-89-219.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1307572245 882275 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1307572278 40449 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var "a" == a < 1307572278 872783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Sym a' against inferred type `Expr' < 1307572279 78990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(==)', namely `a' < 1307572279 241670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: var "a" == a < 1307572291 236206 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is Sym < 1307572294 526708 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Sym < 1307572294 839065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Read Symbol :: String -> Lexeme < 1307572295 1573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Read.Lex Symbol :: String -> Lexeme < 1307572295 164125 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Token symbol :: GenTokenParser s u m -> String -> ParsecT s u m String < 1307572302 712467 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle var < 1307572303 175086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH VarE :: Name -> Exp < 1307572303 337819 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax VarE :: Name -> Exp < 1307572303 500334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH varE :: Name -> ExpQ < 1307572339 841847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1307572372 194931 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let var = "hm" < 1307572373 25741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1307572377 162689 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var < 1307572377 943435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence `var' < 1307572378 125811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `L.var', defined at