00:14:01 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:14:59 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:23:02 -!- calamari has joined. 00:30:39 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving"). 00:32:36 Is it possible to make a statistical distribution (or some sort of statistical construct) that obeys Gambler's Fallacy? 00:33:45 It's easier for me to vaguely invision with something discrete 00:34:37 Would (1/2)^x work? 00:36:45 a markov chain is dependent on previous outcomes, right? 00:37:32 but yeah you'd scale p down after getting more 1s and up after getting more 0s 00:37:41 either looking at the latest streak or how many of each you've gotten since you started 00:39:12 Hmm, I was thinking more of termination on failure. I kind of have death on my mind recently, and one chain of thought lead to that question 00:39:27 Termination on failure? 00:39:30 (Someone from my graduating class died recently) 00:39:39 Patashu, that is, if I get a 0, it's over 00:39:49 aah 00:39:55 it's the 'playing slots at vegas' distribution :) 00:41:44 so you want something like 'flip coins and +1 for heads -1 for tails, stop if you hit 0' and you want the average length it'll go for, hmm... 00:41:47 I know there's a distribution for that 00:42:33 Not quite what I meant, to be honest, but close, I guess 00:42:33 try a markov chain? 00:43:08 well, there are a couple of similar takes like 'at X steps, what percentage of gamblers are at 0' and 'at X steps, what's the average money of a gambler' 00:45:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_ruin relevant 00:45:49 Is it correct to say that I have a 50% chance of living to see half the people in my age group die? 00:46:07 Hmmm 00:46:11 Depends on the distribution of deaths 00:46:27 I think... 00:46:35 Sgeo: no 00:46:56 CakeProphet, hm? 00:46:59 No, I think it is true 00:47:04 Consider the median of the distribution, whatever it is 00:47:14 Everyone above the median will have seen 50% of the people die 00:47:40 but that doesn't imply that they had a 50% chance of seeing 50% of the people die. 00:47:57 yes, but no matter how you slice it, 50% will live past the deaths of the other 50% 00:48:01 (going to assume no simultaneous deaths) 00:48:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:49:03 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:49:10 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:49:29 sure, if you simplify things, that makes sense. But I would say in this scenario that not everyone has equal likelihood of survival. 00:49:45 If you want to model gamblers, use this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain You want a markov chain where at 0 you always stay at 0, and at any higher number you have a p chance of going up and a p chance of going down 00:49:56 Well, if not everyone has the same distribution of lifespan...we need to know what distributions people are using :9 00:49:59 Otherwise I can't say much aboutit 00:50:09 indeed 00:50:31 but yeah if you consider number of equally likely favorable outcomes / number of equally likely total outcomes 00:50:34 you would get .5 00:50:52 for that. 00:51:05 Hmm, because by being healthier than aveage, it increases the individual's chances? 00:51:11 Yep 00:51:45 If I was guaranteed to be immortal I'd always see 50% of my generation die, which robs some other sod of that distinction (since I have a 0% chance of dying) 00:51:47 humans are much more complicated than numbers and such, there are a lot of factors to consider if you want to make any kind of realistic statement about the outcome of a person's life. 00:52:07 Can't you model human lifespan as a normal distribution reasonably well? 00:52:25 reasonably, I suppose 00:53:03 anyways, gotta run. 00:53:03 my intuition from 'introduction to statistics' is 'throw a normal distribution at it' 00:53:05 cya 00:53:35 Patashu: yes, that's what I was taught as well. But I doubt it's very accurate for lifespan, since that varies by environmental factors quite a bit. 00:53:48 what other kind of distribution is it likely to be? 00:53:55 Improvements in medicine make certain causes of death less likely over time 00:54:22 (Of course, that's not factoring in the possibility of antibiotics becoming ineffective) 00:54:27 it could be a negatively skewed normal distribution I suppose 00:54:37 I have no idea, I'm not a statistics person. :P -leaves- 00:59:37 why on earth does mueval give me "Exception: not a number" when I try to eval ['a'..'z'] 00:59:42 what's the type of eval 01:01:42 @hoogle eval 01:01:43 Control.Monad.RWS.Lazy evalRWS :: RWS r w s a -> r -> s -> (a, w) 01:01:43 Control.Monad.RWS.Strict evalRWS :: RWS r w s a -> r -> s -> (a, w) 01:01:43 Control.Monad.RWS.Lazy evalRWST :: Monad m => RWST r w s m a -> r -> s -> m (a, w) 01:01:47 bah 01:02:18 wtf why do people leave the moment before i want to respond to them 01:02:23 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: I think it is improper being immortal.). 01:04:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:28:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:30:54 -!- F has quit (Changing host). 01:30:54 -!- F has joined. 01:34:15 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:36:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:43:03 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:44:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:53:27 -!- elliott has joined. 01:54:07 00:45:49: Is it correct to say that I have a 50% chance of living to see half the people in my age group die? 01:54:07 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 01:54:10 this log sure will be fun 01:54:16 elliott: I thought you might like to know that today was the day of Dresden Codak's semimonthly update. 01:55:07 pikhq_: Ha ha ha, I only follow comics which update at least once per day. 01:55:19 (He says, noting that there was no Homestuck update today, and crying.) 01:55:31 elliott: Then you don't follow SMBC? BLASPHEMER 01:56:24 I'm on the internet, I see every SMBC without trying. 01:56:25 SMBC doesn't update once a day? 01:56:49 Sgeo: Oh, wait, it does. Thinko. 01:57:12 elliott: Sorry, let's change that to something that actually has a non-daily schedule. :P 01:57:21 elliott: Then you don't follow Dr. McNinja? BLASPHEMER 01:57:36 You don't follow Bonobo Conspiracy? 01:57:55 (Well, ok, there's nothing left to follow. Maybe in 5 years there'll be an update) 01:58:02 Dr. McNinja looks like way too much initial investment for the payoff, to be perfectly honest. 01:58:39 elliott: "Investment" implies you can not read it after a handful of pages. 01:59:36 pikhq_: It implies I don't read any comic without reading the entire backlog. 01:59:43 Unless it's Dinosaur Comics or something in which case it's totally irrelevant. 01:59:59 elliott: No, I mean "You can't not finish once you start the backlog". 02:01:21 I totally could. 02:01:37 pikhq_, that's true for me with most things that have backlogs 02:01:48 Except SBaHJ 02:02:17 elliott: Irish ninja doctor comic. Why aren't you reading already? 02:02:18 :P 02:02:42 Sgeo: Uhh, SBaHJ is more addicting than Homestuck. 02:14:15 -!- foocraft has joined. 02:24:25 "As a long time unix user, I don't have to figure out file types. If I see a binary file without an extension and I don't know what it might be, it is going off my system." 02:24:59 what 02:25:29 Does using file count as "not having to figure out file types"? 02:25:41 Using file sounds sensible. Using extensions on UNIX less so 02:29:26 'using file'? 02:29:44 Patashu: file(1) performs heuristics to tell you information about what a given file is. 02:29:53 ah, handy 02:30:12 it's a big ball of knowledge about every file format's headers? 02:30:18 Yup. 02:34:25 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:34:28 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:40:37 :lol: this is the best trojan ever http://www.symantec.com/connect/imagebrowser/view/image/1815391/_original 02:46:30 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:46:30 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 02:46:30 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:55:58 -!- Behold has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:01:02 -!- Adamfyre has joined. 03:06:17 -!- Adamfyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:09:24 -!- Adamfyre has joined. 03:09:31 elliott, elliott 03:09:59 what 03:10:37 Oh, you saw it 03:10:42 Just saw your comment on Reddit 03:12:10 I find it hilarious that bitcoin is unencrypted by default 03:14:16 -!- Adamfyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:16:43 -!- Adamfyre has joined. 03:19:09 Patashu: Eh? 03:19:18 your wallet.dat 03:19:20 which has a private key 03:19:23 sits unencrypted on your drive 03:19:32 rather than e.g. behind a symmetric key algorithm that takes a password 03:19:33 Well, what is it going to be encrypted with? Another private key? :) 03:19:35 :P 03:19:42 (Joke.) 03:19:50 there's an algorithm that takes a password and spits out a symmetric key 03:19:56 put it into AES-256 or whatever 03:22:04 -!- Adamfyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:28:32 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:28:45 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:31:48 -!- Adamfyre has joined. 03:35:53 -!- Adamfyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:37:19 pikhq: I was thinking that, with my revised needs mechanism, "c99 needs libs ..." should actually be "c99 libs ...", since it actually has special code now, rather than being part of a "generic" mechanism. 03:37:36 (Despite that it's actually more flexible, but yeah, it's not straight "needs" any more, it postprocesses the output from the solver to translate the result into the right flags.) 03:38:13 "This is one of the pitfalls of Ubuntu: it uses the command make for the same program that basically every other Unix-based OS calls gmake." 03:38:43 uh... dude 03:38:50 most Linux do that aiui 03:39:04 coppro: When I quote things, it is because they are stupid. 03:39:11 Usually. 03:39:15 Unless they're awesome. 03:39:33 what's the difference 03:40:32 Also, it is *entirely* reasonable to install GNU make as "make". 03:40:46 As, as far as I'm aware, it suffices as a POSIX make. 03:41:46 What do you want the distro makers to do, maintain a BSD make package as well? 03:43:24 -!- Adamfyre has joined. 03:47:09 -!- ralc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:56:37 -!- Adamfyre has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:00:04 "Okay, I guess that's it. The last HLE code in bsnes is now gone, and every special chip uses LLE." 04:00:07 :) 04:02:20 -!- Adamfyre has joined. 04:07:32 -!- Adamfyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:13:58 -!- DocHerrings has joined. 04:14:47 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 04:16:24 DocHerrings: doc, we need some herrings. 04:16:34 Anyone here any good with common lisp? I have a eodermdrome interpreter in its final stages and I just can't seem to find the problem? 04:16:50 I've... written a few Common Lisp programs. 04:16:52 elliott: I'm a doctor, not a fisherman! 04:17:09 Isn't the problem with Eodermdrome efficient implementation? 04:17:18 Hold on.. I will put it on pastebin. Beware, it's a bit if a beast. 04:17:19 ISTR it's really slow done naively, but ais knows more than me. 04:18:06 elliott: I did it by implementing a hash mapping nodes to sets of connections. Seems to be working fine currently... 04:18:36 How do you know? I only know of one publicly-posted Eodermdrome program, and it sounds like your implementation doesn't actually work yet :) 04:19:02 Not doubting, just curious. 04:20:24 The fact is, the parts work. The program does not seem to. (It could be minor bugs I haven't traced yet). 04:21:02 http://pastebin.com/V7Qg0Pw9 Beware... I did not use comments. I kinda wrote it in a single session. 04:21:24 ^There you go, elliott. Good luck with it. 04:21:28 I find the lack of empty lines more distressing :P 04:21:58 DocHerrings: But, erm, "it doesn't work" is a bit non-specific. 04:22:07 The program is non-trivial, so I don't even know where I'd start debugging it. 04:22:38 Well, here is the breakdown - it parses the file properly, and produced the correct graphs and mappings. 04:23:13 It also correctly detects input and all other prerequisites. 04:23:45 But when running an actual program, ...? 04:24:06 BUT the example program fails miserably. All the code seems to be executed, but no changes to the internal graph are made 04:24:45 DocHerrings: Bear in mind that it is completely untested... 04:25:08 So it may be that the program is broken. It is likely, even. 04:25:23 You might be able to pry a simpler example program out of ais523 here or on the wiki. 04:25:57 True, but by tracing the that section of code, I see something even worse - for some reason, the internal graph is not being altered - at all. 04:26:19 Weird. 04:26:53 DocHerrings: Perhaps you are expecting a functional operation to behave imperatively? i.e., you are transforming the graph into a new graph, but not actually _mutating_ it, and in the end just throwing it away. 04:27:01 This is just a guess based on a cursory glance at your code, no actual evidence. 04:27:30 And I made one of my own - I simply reduced the graph to one node 'a', and then string down the alphabet, printing "Counting 1" etc. That does not work either. 04:27:37 Hm. 04:28:11 Maybe I should get back into CL 04:28:25 elliott: You will notice the gratuitous use of setf. Even if the function returns an object, as long as it is setf'ed, the changes stick. 04:28:42 That's an odd way to put it, but sure. 04:28:58 DocHerrings: Still, closed-nothings bugs me. 04:29:10 For a start, 04:29:29 you're discarding the result of a map, which means you should really use LOOP instead. 04:29:41 Or, well, anything that isn't a map. 04:29:59 Oh wait. 04:30:04 maphash does not actually map. 04:30:09 DocHerrings: "The consequences are unspecified if any attempt is made to add or remove an entry from the hash-table while a maphash is in progress, with two exceptions: the function can use can use setf of gethash to change the value part of the entry currently being processed, or it can use remhash to remove that entry. 04:30:09 " 04:30:13 This doesn't affect you, right? 04:30:45 No, the only time I use maphash, a local variable is the one being changed. 04:30:52 Right. 04:31:37 I dunno, it's weird. 04:31:54 Hmm... I am going to comment out the main loop, and execute the commands by hand. Maybe that will help. 04:32:25 And I badly need to clean and refactor this code anyways. It's a god-awful mess. 04:32:32 It kind of is, yes. 04:32:53 I diagnose this as the obvious result of not being written in Haskell. :p 04:33:30 Funny, I have written in Haskell. Playing around with Clean now. 04:34:10 Clean is interesting, although I'm not convinced that uniqueness types are useful enough to justify the added complexity to the type system and language. 04:34:26 (Apart from that, of course, it's mostly a carbon copy of Haskell-98 with some weirdness.) 04:34:41 -!- kwertii has joined. 04:35:24 Yeah, I find that monads are a more natural abstraction to apply to sequencing IO than uniqueness typing. 04:35:31 Interesting idea, though. 04:35:44 Well I don't know about that. 04:36:17 But two different ways of modelling imperative IO semantics are... hard to compare because the end result is practically the same. 04:36:26 It's a heavily subjective thing. 04:36:30 The question is whether uniqueness types are fun for anything else. 04:36:37 Ahahah, okay, now I know I need to re-do part of this. 04:37:00 Seems my state-machine/regexp code hates the letter a. 04:37:07 wat 04:37:16 I diagnose your code with wat. It is terminal. 04:37:23 I am so, so sorry. 04:38:14 man, terminal code is a pain 04:38:15 I prefer initial 04:38:16 Since I didn't feel like getting a regexp library involved with what was already a trainwreak, I wrote a state machine to parse the input. 04:38:32 Not simple, and nicely esoteric. 04:39:14 If your first thought for an Actual Parsing Library is dragging regexps in, then you have a problem and it's a good thing you were too lazy :P 04:40:38 Well, I found the problem. 04:40:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:40:55 "It was the (if letter-is-a (break-randomly)) line." 04:41:00 hi oerjan your eodermdrome program MIGHT be broken MIGHT 04:41:13 Working on it. 04:41:21 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 04:41:53 No, seems the code failed miserably when the match or replacement subgraph was of length 1. gotta go fix that. 04:42:00 i shall have to ban DocHerrings for this 04:42:10 ? 04:42:39 FOR SULLYING MY PRISTINE PROGRAM WITH ACTUAL BUG CHECKING 04:43:08 Whoah whoa WHOAH. Slow down there! The your pristine program might still work, your majesty! 04:43:24 The implimentation is a bit broken. 04:43:32 the your pristine program 04:43:32 O KAY. WE'LL POSTPONE THE OFF WITH YOUR HEAD, THEN 04:44:20 elliott: this is what I get for not sleeping, okay? :p 04:45:26 Bah, sleep is for mortals. 04:46:21 DocHerrings: talking to a person who operates on average 0 sleep/day 04:46:55 elliott: I thought you averaged higher than that, but that the mode was 0. 04:51:20 * oerjan opens http://hackage.haskell.org/package/mueval and backs away when he notices there are no haddock links 04:51:46 its ok oerjan i will give you a hug 04:51:46 btw 04:51:47 by "eval" 04:51:50 i think CakeProphet just meant > 04:51:51 not a function 04:51:53 u r dum lol 04:51:55 > ['a'..'z'] 04:51:55 "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" 04:51:58 oh 04:52:07 elliott: oh 04:52:14 but still it might have been in a repl or w / e 04:52:46 > sum ['a'..'z'] 04:52:46 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char) 04:52:46 arising from a use of `Data... 04:52:53 Insanity, go... aww 04:52:59 > sum [0..] 04:53:16 thread killed 04:53:30 > sum $ map (\x -> x * x) [0..] 04:53:37 elliott: i was imagining he was trying some eval "['a'..'z']" which defaulted to Integer 04:53:39 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 04:54:29 Lymia: sum is indeed a strict function 04:54:31 @src sum 04:54:32 sum = foldl (+) 0 04:54:44 is it! 04:54:45 Lymia is not a he. 04:55:00 Lymia: i was referring to CakeProphet 04:55:06 Oh. 04:55:28 well, at least we know that Lymia is not a he now 04:55:45 note that this does not necessarily mean that Lymia is a she, though 04:55:52 That is correct. 04:56:12 yes. confer a certain soupy, faxy dragon pig 04:56:39 wait, a new one? 04:57:07 hmm, sum [0..] :: LazyNat is _|_, gross 04:57:08 well i don't _think_ Lymia is fax etc. 04:57:25 hasn't Lymia not being a he been established for months 04:57:29 or was that in -minecraft 04:57:33 Dunno. 04:57:35 ("A he": best terminology?) 04:57:41 well i did notice it a while ago 04:57:59 I thought oerjan was referring to me, considering the whole "defaulted to Integer" clause. 04:58:20 > foldl (++) ['a'..'z'] 04:58:22 Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show 04:58:22 ([[GHC... 04:59:03 > foldl (/x -> show $ ++) ['a'..'z'] 04:59:04 : parse error on input `->' 04:59:15 > foldl (\x -> show $ ++) ['a'..'z'] 04:59:16 : parse error on input `++' 04:59:18 Lymia: missing argument on the first one 04:59:30 oerjan, ? 04:59:42 Lymia: foldl takes 3 args 04:59:53 or more! 05:00:07 Alright, problem found. Well check back in when I have everything done. Then oerjan can have proof of his pristine program. 05:00:09 :t foldl 05:00:11 forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a 05:00:14 as for the parse, sections can only have arguments of higher (or sometimes equal precedence) 05:00:27 -!- DocHerrings has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]). 05:00:34 oh wait 05:00:51 > foldl (\x y -> show $ ++ x y) "" ['a'..'z'] 05:00:52 : parse error on input `++' 05:00:59 > foldl (\x y -> show $ x ++ y) "" ['a'..'z'] 05:00:59 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 05:01:00 against inferred ty... 05:01:12 > foldl (\x y -> show $ (show x) ++ (show y)) "" ['a'..'z'] 05:01:12 what do you want the show for 05:01:16 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 05:01:17 Uh.. 05:01:18 Dunno. 05:01:32 hm 05:01:33 > foldl (\x y -> x ++ y) "" ['a'..'z'] 05:01:34 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 05:01:34 against inferred ty... 05:01:37 Right 05:01:39 Char!=String 05:01:39 > foldl (\x y -> show $ (show x) ++ (show y)) "" ['a'..'z'] 05:01:41 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... 05:01:55 > foldl (\x y -> x ++ $ show y) "" ['a'..'z'] 05:01:56 : parse error on input `$' 05:01:57 not all timeouts are for infinite looping 05:02:04 > foldl (\x y -> x ++ (show y)) "" ['a'..'z'] 05:02:06 "'a''b''c''d''e''f''g''h''i''j''k''l''m''n''o''p''q''r''s''t''u''v''w''x''y... 05:02:46 > fix show 05:02:47 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... 05:03:02 > map length . group . fix $ show 05:03:10 [1 05:03:44 > take 5 . map length . group . fix $ show 05:03:45 wat 05:03:46 [1,1,1,3,1] 05:03:51 wat 05:03:55 > take 10 . map length . group . fix $ show 05:03:57 [1,1,1,3,1,7,1,15,1,31] 05:04:02 > map length . group . fix $ show 05:04:06 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 05:04:09 heh 05:04:12 > take 10 . filter (/= 1) . map length . group . fix $ show 05:04:14 [3,7,15,31,63,127,255,511,1023,2047] 05:04:30 copumpkin: the \ groups go as 2^n-1 05:04:38 yep 05:04:52 I'm mostly puzzled wtf is wrong with lambdabot 05:04:55 that [1 05:05:18 > map length . group . fix $ show 05:05:24 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 05:05:25 mueval: ExitFailure 1 05:05:33 yes that was weird 05:05:49 lambdabot seems to have many possible failure modes for too long computations 05:06:01 yeah, but normally it'll lazily produce some of that list 05:06:13 more than the first element, at least 05:06:29 copumpkin: not if it times out before producing a whole line, does it? 05:06:46 hm 05:06:50 oerjan: maybe not, but it's weird that it spat out [1 before 05:06:54 yes 05:07:37 i mean if it reaches an exception it does spit out what came before, but i don't think it does that with timeout 05:07:43 "ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA, AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE" This is a real phrase from a (presumably phrase) book on Latin. 05:07:47 Meaning "Is that a scroll in your toga, or are you just happy to see me?" 05:08:10 :D 05:08:13 how old 05:09:07 oh the previous mueval version has haddock 05:09:15 No idea; the quote came to me by way of Omniglot. 05:09:39 pikhq: sounds a bit familiar 05:11:06 eval :: MonadInterpreter m => String -> m String 05:11:10 no shit sherlock :P 05:11:12 oerjan: "Is that a pistol in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?" is an extraördinarily well-known, oft slightly mis-quoted, oft referenced quip by the actress Mae West. 05:11:28 pikhq: i mean the actual latin you dolt 05:12:09 i'm sure there's a list of several of them 05:12:23 Ah. Yeah. 05:14:16 -!- foocraft has quit (Quit: if you're going....to san. fran. cisco!!!). 05:17:27 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:19:38 "Serbia includes the Bosnian language as an elective subject in primary schools." 05:19:41 That is comical. 05:20:01 That would be like America including the Canadian language as an elective subject. 05:20:13 i don't know what you mean eh 05:20:30 * oerjan beats pikhq on the head with a Nynorsk dictionary 05:20:34 -!- rodgort has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:21:09 elliott: Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian/Montenegrin/Standard Serbo-Croatian is a pluricentric language with a multitude of names for nationalist reasons. 05:21:32 how ridiculous, eh 05:21:41 isn't it more likely to just be classes on how to insult bosnians? 05:21:43 oerjan: At least Nynorsk and Bokmål *possess* differences. 05:21:44 i'm going to go and get some syrup from a tree, or whatever it is canadians do all day, eh 05:21:50 coppro: a fellow canadian 05:21:51 coppro: eh 05:22:14 goodnight, eh? 05:22:27 coppro: eh 05:24:46 oerjan: The differences between the different Serbo-Croatian "languages" are best compared to "color" vs. "colour" type spelling differences. 05:25:45 except for the shooting at people who say "colour" 05:25:47 (okay, so you *can* write "Serbian" text that a speaker of "Croatian" can't read, but that's only because Croatian only uses Latin script) 05:26:02 oerjan: I did say it was for nationalist reasons, did I not? 05:26:14 Unlike US vs. UK spelling, which is for hysterical raisins. 05:26:35 yes, yes. iiuc the differences where hastily introduced after the wars started... 05:26:51 Yup. 05:27:59 lol 05:28:26 just like canadian english eh 05:28:27 coppro: eh 05:28:28 coppro: eh 05:29:43 I'm not sure it's even meaningful to say "Canadian English". 05:30:29 eh 05:30:30 eh 05:30:34 syrup from trees 05:30:35 bears in snow 05:30:35 eh 05:30:36 eh 05:32:00 syrup from bears in snow, check 05:32:29 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:32:54 -!- rodgort has quit (Client Quit). 05:34:11 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:34:14 so I was thinking it would interesting to make a language that was both high level and low level. 05:34:18 almost as two sublanguages. 05:34:23 that can interact with one another. 05:34:36 so you can write efficient code or you can write abstract code. 05:34:59 CakeProphet: We call it "Haskell". 05:36:30 well, as an alternative to Haskell. 05:36:38 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:39:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:42:12 I could see using Python's with statement to write monadic code... but I'm not entirely sure. 05:43:07 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: bye). 05:44:19 pikhq_, now all we need is Haskell with a builtin C-like language. 05:46:49 that's called haskell 05:46:58 (he says, despite thinking pikhq_'s original statement a bit rich) 05:49:25 would an interpreter in Haskell be reasonable if you're concerned with performance? 05:49:40 elliott: Only mild hyperbole. 05:50:06 CakeProphet: If you're good at Haskell, of course :-) 05:50:19 Shiro is... faster than pyfunge :P 05:50:21 Lymia: If you were mildly crazy, you could probably implement C in Template Haskell. 05:50:26 (It was faster before I refactored the code.) 05:50:45 pikhq_: mildly crazy, you say? :D 05:50:55 CakeProphet: I mean, obviously you need to have some kind of intuition about the performance characteristics of Haskell structures and code which are very different to most languages. 05:51:00 But yes, Haskell interpreters can be very fast. 05:51:25 Also I feel like linking to: 05:51:26 http://augustss.blogspot.com/2009/02/more-basic-not-that-anybody-should-care.html 05:51:28 Lymia: Without doing crazy implementations of things C assumes; you could just translate pointer semantics directly. 05:51:35 which is an embedded BASIC DSL in Haskell that uses LLVM to produce BLAAAZING fast code. 05:51:43 You could easily do that with... a less perverse language. 05:51:52 elliott, Haskell.... uh.... 05:51:52 Wow. 05:51:54 Like, one that doesn't use horrific syntactic tricks. 05:52:16 elliott: so you mean Perl? :3 05:52:19 elliott, I thought a rough ordering of language speed goes something like this [C,C++]>[Java,C#,Haskell]->[Python,Perl,Ruby] 05:52:25 CakeProphet: ... 05:52:33