< 1308787279 983056 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a local one, somewhere < 1308787405 685377 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not in norway; in fact from http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/bld/kampanjer/familia/familia-42006/diverse-saker/-gavekort-til-jul-25-milliarder-kroner-i.html?id=536565 i see the default is 3 years unless otherwise agreed < 1308787522 637080 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_order_cellular_automaton you could just slap this onto GoL? < 1308787532 340732 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that article ends with an example of inconsistent confusing terms < 1308787658 350325 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308787670 650355 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pretty much < 1308787694 752228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How commonly are the various typesetting units for distances used today? < 1308787696 540086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see what that would look like < 1308787727 881992 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some by-hand calculations are in order < 1308787759 524516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's pretend that generations 0 and 1 are always the same... unless that would always lead to a dead universe. I think it does for still-lives but not ... wait, that makes no sense < 1308787901 984169 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want to make in TeXnicard is something that it can read and understand the text of all of the cards and then compile it to make a computer program that can enforce the rules (maybe something like Inform7 but with many differences). < 1308787968 291266 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1308787999 501474 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308788024 95354 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it does for patterns which die immediately in life, i think < 1308788045 814083 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308788046 528445 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, those become still-lives in this version < 1308788055 457359 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, for generations 0 and 1, should 0 -> 1 by normal GoL rules? < 1308788073 392042 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I just killed the Oerjan Still Lives < 1308788102 790791 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that is equivalent to setting generation -1 all zeros, i think < 1308788132 934331 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is reversible, so you can extend it both ways < 1308788209 788965 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, under these rules, 1 cell in gen 0 ... dies the death, I think. What pattern dies in 2 generations? < 1308788215 400009 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I just confused here < 1308788233 496778 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, normal GoL pattern < 1308788282 462004 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pattern dies in generation 2 iff the gol result of generation 1 == generation 0 < 1308788343 70855 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you have no way to make it _stay_ dead < 1308788361 873692 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, dies in 2 generations by GoL rules < 1308788373 639080 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, stay dead? < 1308788388 913739 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, I was thinking empty universe == stay dead, which makes no sense < 1308788432 25975 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that produces an indefinitely empty universe is an indefinitely empty universe < 1308788505 591957 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can there exist any motion? Perhaps not in an empty universe, but < 1308788515 114776 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308788521 261608 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*near-empty < 1308788550 239141 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, scratch that.. I'm barely thinking about this < 1308788606 53229 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it makes sense for "5P6" means "66pt" while "5p6" means "66bp"? < 1308788623 6329 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This information is based on the Wikipedia article titled "Pica (typography)") < 1308788681 315956 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, instea of using "pc" since different units might be used) < 1308788769 596830 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1308788873 970395 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be easy enough to convert it into a more normal CA describable as cells with 4 states, but I need to sit still long enough to do so < 1308788986 380530 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308788999 817614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1308789029 238229 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, according to North Korean writing rules, names of leaders Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il must always be set off in bold. < 1308789044 297401 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia mentions it but has no citation. < 1308789063 323344 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it sounds utterly believable < 1308789302 724380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whos a bro < 1308789302 903790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1308789350 800638 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1308789384 44429 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1308789449 483305 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308789485 876757 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-15-133.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308789688 984594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:46:34: -!- Elizacat has joined #esoteric. < 1308789690 920100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:46:37: hi < 1308789691 68873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:46:44: * Elizacat pokes Vorpal < 1308789699 750019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful, you might catch whatever it is that Vorpal has < 1308789707 609065 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1308789713 662516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:30:55: Shortly afterwards, elliott complained about this, but while doing so, repeated the original intent, exactly as it appeared in the original emaill.... so that in Gmail, and perhaps some other clients, it looked like elliott was just quoting what appeared in a previous email. < 1308789718 133037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, that wasn't intentional. < 1308789722 961420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just coincidental wording. < 1308789742 15275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I still think that being able to object to your own inactivity intent is a Bad Thing. < 1308789766 982873 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308789793 608721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:45: I never quite got the whole anti-loanword thing. < 1308789793 783792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it's a purity thing, see: l'Académie française < 1308789799 141124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(correctly capitalised?) < 1308789836 357288 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sits down < 1308789936 159253 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were standing up? < 1308789957 142139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:56:21: Let's make a page calling Haskell a wimpmode of Unlambda < 1308789961 665721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: oh come on, at least Lazy K < 1308789963 318027 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was. < 1308790032 682027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:13:30: I went and made a basic optimizing Brainfuck->C compiler in Scala. < 1308790032 869316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:13:36: ... < 1308790033 17989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:14:02: It might benefit from code to recognize balanced loops and handle them specially. < 1308790045 684054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: balanced loops reduce to polynomials < 1308790053 377716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:42:38: while(ptr[0]){ < 1308790053 568379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:42:38: ptr[0]-=1; < 1308790053 717194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:42:38: } < 1308790056 435653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you call that optimised? < 1308790063 485993 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Google Docs: Fuck you < 1308790083 44349 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, not really. < 1308790099 376714 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only merging sequences of +->< right now < 1308790109 172476 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to do something about balanced loops. < 1308790119 165721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: do you handle +>+-<- < 1308790122 554964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to empty string < 1308790165 321356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: balanced loops: copy esotope or http://mazonka.com/brainf/bff4.c (see the initial comment and grep for /LNR/) < 1308790171 423566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that latter is an interpreter < 1308790178 806993 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, that should be eliminated < 1308790197 593628 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308790269 389414 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm... < 1308790309 730804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the esotope code (Python), see https://bitbucket.org/lifthrasiir/esotope-bfc/overview. < 1308790316 863526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is by far the most advanced optimising compiler anyone has written. < 1308790321 528353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiles hello world into a print statement < 1308790325 861701 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know the loop is balanced, you can compile it into a sequence of int loops=some_function(ptr[0],ptr_0_change);ptr[0]=0;ptr[1]=(some number)*loops; right? < 1308790351 584588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can compile it to much less than that. < 1308790383 915592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/esotope-bfc/wiki/Optimization has some fairly outdated information on esotope's optimisation < 1308790403 556949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it now manages to eliminate dead code and propagate conditions < 1308790485 974180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you could also ask lifthrasiir (the author of esotope), ais523 or Vorpal for information on reducing balanced loops to polynomials. < 1308790591 943640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:42:38: * Phantom_Hoover notes that his understanding of special relativity has collapsed. < 1308790592 124632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:42:48: Or, more likely, wasn't there to begin with < 1308790592 273897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:43:43: Phantom_Hoover, oh? It is easy, twins age at different rates when one travels at high speed. The end. < 1308790592 274060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:43:53: (actually: accelerates) < 1308790596 279141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure hope you're joking < 1308790751 992425 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott. < 1308790777 492933 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can convert constant references to variables instead of accesses to the memory array, right? < 1308790809 138453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just going to tell you to read esotope's code :) < 1308790813 373738 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okey < 1308790814 234069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ask lifthrasiir < 1308790814 481591 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=18eLRRmojIXEU36uad7lW7XwRRGEKFvjiYV6pS3-UF-4 well, this is intuitive as mud. < 1308791201 64941 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh you're not here < 1308791313 176074 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1308791618 513387 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308791642 136637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure oerjan cares < 1308791650 655170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"comprehendible" < 1308791697 644848 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308792341 498506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:57:49: oh wait there may be only two people called that (since 1950, anyway) :P < 1308792344 942817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot for iceland < 1308792346 389368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1308792474 899536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I have a day off, I should really take this opportunity to continue working on various projects... < 1308792480 676812 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I think I'm just going to do nothing today instead. < 1308792485 827686 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8) < 1308792735 906866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1308794158 289563 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-192.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308794237 737346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup pikhq < 1308794382 657114 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-183-92.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308794436 192235 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308794519 691587 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, equipment that thinks that dropping a connection is a good thing. < 1308794535 852498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1308794537 680000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw nothing < 1308794539 608491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq (~pikhq@174-22-156-192.clsp.qwest.net) has joined #esoteric < 1308794540 144300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : sup pikhq < 1308794540 295454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) < 1308794540 295616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq_ (~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net) has joined #esoteric < 1308794540 295723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, equipment that thinks that dropping a connection is a good thing. < 1308794579 276811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wanna help me write the BEST WC???? < 1308794594 432715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot fix < 1308794595 348968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my space < 1308794596 252566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :leak :( < 1308794604 247930 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-192.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1308794629 261808 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:59 < pikhq> Stuff. That is up. < 1308794858 200436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: SPACE LEAK < 1308794929 496893 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1308795048 389565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: SPLEAK < 1308795058 797726 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :KAELPS < 1308795065 681380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: : < < 1308795151 708204 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308795417 624944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you are hurting haskell with your lack of support < 1308795586 461073 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is time. < 1308795685 424285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: for < 1308795689 817428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god not more bot things is it < 1308795692 665715 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. For. < 1308795751 369294 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I assuming that reversible CA implies a conserved quantity? < 1308796176 52621 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you are silly < 1308796185 746738 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-185-248.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT : < 1308796203 655538 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosh, my bedtime is in ten seconds. < 1308796208 905501 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night, everyone. < 1308796213 261280 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :eee*shoop* < 1308796215 982092 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1308796250 820727 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :although for a totalistic kind of CA (or anything where the entire neighborhood is considered equally tributary) that will have to be true i think? < 1308796364 133013 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversible means no entropy, which means no information is lost, and in a CA where cells are indistinguishable, that would imply conservation of quantity, yes? < 1308796430 434171 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1308796492 728087 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does reversible imply no entropy? Our universe is (kind of) reversible, as far as we know, but still has entropy < 1308796628 963422 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1308796664 221250 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversible process (thermodynamics), a process or cycle such that the net change at each stage in the combined entropy of the system and its surroundings is zero < 1308796680 959150 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, the universe is not reversible < 1308796691 768635 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, the arrow of time is uniquely forward < 1308796695 22823 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? we do not know < 1308796741 603064 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversible computing, logical reversibility of a computation - a computational step for which a well-defined inverse exists < 1308796747 798158 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the relevant definition for CAs < 1308796753 116534 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's mathematically equivalent < 1308796789 587002 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an inverse is operation is only well-defined if information is conserved < 1308796797 690628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can't have two states be inverses of one another because then it will cycle, which isn't really all that useful. < 1308796859 666293 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so that's why I failed my sanity check. < 1308796870 173579 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming the same rules would apply backwards and forwards. < 1308796876 465411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ... < 1308796876 740558 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it can produce some other thing. Similar to how glider guns work in CGoL < 1308796886 703019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION claps for Sgeo_ < 1308796892 546543 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im clapign too < 1308796897 814358 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance "minus" is not an invertible operation because it takes two pieces of information and throws out one. "minus one" is invertible because it takes one piece of information and gives back an equal amount of information < 1308796903 88576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i clapign all the time < 1308796945 778358 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in, the sanity check was moronic, not what I produced prior to doing the sanity check) < 1308796980 778541 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308796991 689163 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1308797021 678583 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does bsmnt mean basement < 1308797024 986249 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does dood mean dude < 1308797028 612684 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does bomb mean bomb < 1308797031 702930 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you could not destroy the state of any cell, right? That would be bad because then you have no form of "motion" < 1308797036 137689 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does monqy mean monkey < 1308797040 311268 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does cake mean caek < 1308797046 482444 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, yes < 1308797069 632159 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ah how do you destroy the state of a cell? < 1308797073 67629 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete it? < 1308797082 313972 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er yes, return it to the default state. < 1308797093 643916 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose this all depends on the rules of the automaton < 1308797107 996907 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1308797117 941952 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confusing time-symmetry with reversibility < 1308797132 661125 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clapign again < 1308797133 93622 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1308797159 406819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you give rules that allow the default state to prodce non-default states, then that would imply that your grid starts off in some kind of non-constant setup. < 1308797179 175647 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not know the terminology for these things he's talking about. < 1308797253 575342 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how easy/difficult it would be to put his table into Mirek's Cellebration < 1308797261 478020 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I can never spell < 1308797278 43828 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: if you return it to the default state without regard for how it will affect its neighbors, yes, you will change the nature of the CA. it might be destroying information in one sense of thinking about it, or creating it in another sense. < 1308797279 54059 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I got it right < 1308797304 982566 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no one uses MCell anymore. put it in Golly. it's not that hard. < 1308797321 156164 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be easier in Golly than MCell? < 1308797357 610685 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm okay, so then to create a CA without information loss, you would need to have no way to return to a dead state, or have a way to go from dead to alive that is reversible from the way in which the information was originally configured. < 1308797374 638304 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the "destruction" < 1308797386 532806 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, there's an algorithmic way to make a reversible CA from a non-reversible CA < 1308797394 105623 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1308797411 42713 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's an algorithmic way to make a reversible anything from a non-reversible anything < 1308797414 937695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay. < 1308797449 561130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi < 1308797449 911188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : does bsmnt mean basement < 1308797450 62106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : does dood mean dude < 1308797450 62195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : does bomb mean bomb < 1308797455 19813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no mocking non-sgeo elders >:| < 1308797456 327514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1308797494 425795 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13874049 < 1308797524 733663 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elder is a good description of sgeo < 1308797534 213031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: been here longer than me < 1308797583 633373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We get it Apple, you own the ‘App Store’ trademark. Except, let’s be honest: you really don’t – the English languages does." < 1308797590 721266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omgubuntu, hard-hitting edited journalism < 1308797609 94296 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1308797617 473953 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it has been shown that every reversible cellular automaton can be emulated by a block cellular automaton."hmm < 1308797643 935201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't "app store" pushing heavily on genericised trademark? < 1308797646 128975 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :english languages owns the app store trademark??????? app store is a mark of english languages' trade????????? < 1308797648 306081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: english languages < 1308797650 847403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1308797663 802866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't know, would anyone else name anything an App Store if Apple hadn't? < 1308797676 471230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"App" wasn't a very common abbreviation for "programoid" < 1308797682 650020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where programoid means... < 1308797691 591753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that isn't quite the same thing as an application or program < 1308797698 144706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to define < 1308797704 599389 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Irrelevant. < 1308797728 218889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it shouldn't be :) < 1308797740 906150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1308797746 385101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: oh you said genericised < 1308797753 666223 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1308797757 638541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i dunno, nobody says "android app store" < 1308797762 178550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone says "android market" < 1308797791 904790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20073524-248/judge-likely-to-deny-apples-appstore-complaint/ <-- seems apple are trying to get amazon for using "Appstore" < 1308797832 159172 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I hear "app store" as a generic term fairly often. < 1308797855 946607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though if there's a more specific term available that'll be used instead. < 1308797860 392127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1308797868 828732 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308797872 339452 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does apple own "app" < 1308797874 158845 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does apple own "store" < 1308797899 922876 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't cite, because I'm talking anecdotes here. < 1308797906 323565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: does that matter if "app store" is the trademark < 1308797915 47755 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Doesn't matter for trademarking. < 1308797922 909384 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trademarking is the worst :( < 1308797929 81219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the trademark system is fairly sane < 1308797930 363297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if the roomba was called the Robotic Magic Vacuum < 1308797933 435472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you object to that being trademarked < 1308797938 290046 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1308797941 830974 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phrase trademarking < 1308797944 193604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Micro Software < 1308797944 344550 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if someone else tried to sell apps < 1308797954 447052 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a store < 1308797957 718356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that "app store" is a bit edge-case, but I think the fact that nobody said "app" before that matters < 1308797970 672082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a weird abbreviation that was only ever used colloquially and... I never even heard it < 1308798017 58588 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is trademarked by me. < 1308798022 658005 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I use it as part of my business. < 1308798030 749159 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is associated with my business of awesome. < 1308798144 797313 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, trademark law has astoundingly few abuses, misuses, or unintended consequences. Quite unlike the other two things termed "intellectual property". < 1308798168 692255 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it's the only one that's not utterly outmoded. < 1308798233 553965 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favorite thing about patents is that they are reasoned to promote competition < 1308798238 662778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... they do the exact opposite of that. < 1308798255 415257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308798264 715044 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the *concept* of patenting might have some remaining validity. < 1308798271 835940 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implementation, sure as hell not. < 1308798291 736056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1308798342 445867 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think patent is bad thing now although in the past it might have helped a bit. Now it should be abolished, though. Trademark is good things, though. Therefore they should change "Patent and trademark office" into just "Trademark office" and then have no patent. < 1308798374 325167 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, copyright law is less worthwhile than laws regulating that all chariots (horseless or otherwise) must be equipped with at least 2 horses. < 1308798474 844360 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1308798496 720132 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's such a law, but hey. < 1308798498 745381 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308798504 766102 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308798516 255279 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of some pretty stupid laws but forgotten them all < 1308798517 540677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was only amazing once i thought it was real < 1308798522 538290 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"system is fairly sane < 1308798522 805723 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : imagine if the roomba was called the Robotic Magic Vacuum < 1308798522 956572 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : would you object to that being trademarked < 1308798522 956747 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean < 1308798522 956855 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : phrase trade" < 1308798525 238699 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1308798537 533474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote "system is fairly sane imagine if the roomba was called the Robotic Magic Vacuum would you object to that being trademarked I mean phrase trade" oops < 1308798538 503771 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1308798538 654802 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All editing operations are restricted to cells whose coordinates are within +/- 1 billion. " < 1308798539 358568 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :464) "system is fairly sane imagine if the roomba was called the Robotic Magic Vacuum would you object to that being trademarked I mean phrase trade" oops < 1308798571 802921 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised and a bit sad that you didn't quote my sanity comments < 1308798576 908305 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There are *similarly* outmoded laws regulating horseless chariots, I just couldn't remember any. < 1308798586 38040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: which ones < 1308798598 375808 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something about faiing a asanity check < 1308798599 245944 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity < 1308798605 141908 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faliling < 1308798608 323552 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing < 1308798621 889902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Something about faiing a asanity check sanity faliling failing < 1308798623 152741 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :465) Something about faiing a asanity check sanity faliling failing < 1308798740 275490 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sanity is insufficient by itself. Many other things are also important. < 1308798759 461302 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that sanity is mostly optional. < 1308798801 849147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Sanity is insufficient by itself. Many other things are also important. < 1308798803 51849 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :466) Sanity is insufficient by itself. Many other things are also important. < 1308798806 289035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people would have included CakeProphet's line < 1308798811 400886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those people do not understand zzo38 < 1308798929 123323 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308798956 307702 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey, you're mocking a non-sgeo elder! < 1308798963 701427 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think zzo38 is an elder) < 1308798967 58892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mocking zzo38? < 1308799010 80889 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo is clearly mocking you < 1308799033 611900 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. (Nor do I know exactly what you mean by "an elder" or how it is relevant) < 1308799043 111590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh < 1308799061 161509 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you a non-sgeo elder < 1308799070 978256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does two thousand seven count as elder < 1308799074 818929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i came in once the previous year < 1308799083 634079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm the top talker, which surprises EVERYONE < 1308799094 983477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :act surprised < 1308799105 896611 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308799121 299239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-02-28.txt:01:03:21: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric. < 1308799122 768011 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-164-57.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308799123 416537 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't gathered a sample to compare with that < 1308799127 162841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that zzo38 didn't actually come here before that < 1308799131 298113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you mean for elderness? < 1308799139 753043 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :talkativity < 1308799140 130638 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308799147 196613 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know if I should be surprised or not < 1308799154 524315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it was the first day zzo38 was in here < 1308799157 221517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have worked with esolangs before that though. I have not been on this channel, though, is true. < 1308799160 8569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well the second is vorpal/anmaster < 1308799178 111197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but ignoring him i talk like three times the person below me < 1308799218 760743 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308799290 21953 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quote number 97 mentions quote number 124. < 1308799330 567447 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it an old quote 124 from before some quotes were deleted, moving 97 below 124 < 1308799335 495326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because quotes get deleted < 1308799339 728046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the numbers aren't saved < 1308799340 929786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a bug :D < 1308799357 649502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could actually calculate the real numbers of all current quotes based on the hg log... < 1308799430 849697 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1308799454 88446 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 97 < 1308799455 125665 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :97) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. < 1308799469 837663 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good quote < 1308799493 398220 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308799511 127974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308799535 440650 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308799756 600252 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about I not wait patiently for Golly to do a random fill on a large area just because I want to know what random fill is like in day and night < 1308799810 422978 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308799842 909308 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need a large area < 1308799854 570936 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1308799864 785800 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308799869 13709 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But didn't think it would cause a problem < 1308799870 47631 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until it caused a problem < 1308799880 66508 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it should be better at generating randomness < 1308799883 333476 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster < 1308799887 617070 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then people could complain it was too predictable < 1308800002 607932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, would there ever be a case where you want to use a regular expression negation operator without implicit backtracking? < 1308800014 237095 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Forced garbage collection. I never have any problems with memory management in C++, so this just seems like disadvantages to me." < 1308800016 369347 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In most cases the effect would be the same. < 1308800027 89089 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ..what is this from? < 1308800028 140424 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: see cut in prolog < 1308800030 900013 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some idiot on reddit < 1308800051 241955 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, "forced garbage collection" < 1308800061 94348 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare "forced manual memory management" < 1308800094 211468 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I never have any problems with memory management in C++" < 1308800103 386896 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that this person hasn't done non-trivial programming. < 1308800121 671546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, screw this convenience shit, I want to manage my own memory! I don't have problems with that shit, so it's obviously a drawback to have it. < 1308800128 780702 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: non-trivial? in C++, memory management is _always_ a problem < 1308800138 705348 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to copy constructors, destructors, blah blah bksjfskghdfk < 1308800163 125268 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not only convenience -- manual memory management has a performance cost versus good garbage collection! < 1308800166 831441 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: With certain forms of trivial programming in C++, you can be ignorant of memory management. < 1308800176 467765 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Make your language slower and difficult to program in correctly, please." < 1308800185 559693 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, Go's GC is stop-the-world mark-and-sweep, but that's an implementation issue.) < 1308800194 502545 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then again so is GC; Scheme, for instance, just says that objects are never freed. Ever.) < 1308800209 853734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh really? I was under the impression that MMM still existed because it allowed for more efficient programs. < 1308800222 552965 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I could see how /poor/ memory management would create the opposite < 1308800237 207111 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A high-quality garbage collector is faster than a manual memory management scheme in *many* cases. < 1308800242 86533 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first post to esolang wiki is from August of 2005. < 1308800253 966536 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No. < 1308800255 602656 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's a myth. < 1308800265 995493 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Malloc and free are expensive operations. < 1308800274 250281 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A good garbage collector outperforms them practically every time. < 1308800279 407225 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And manual memory management is only going to be *notably* faster than a high-quality garbage collector in edge cases. < 1308800292 594120 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: does a garbage collector not use free or something equivalent? < 1308800293 852679 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the conservative (but very very impressive) Boehm collector for C programs beats malloc and free. < 1308800300 936591 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, but it does it in clumps. < 1308800304 612849 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1308800313 251196 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: And a parallel collector won't even pause your program to do it. < 1308800347 839836 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get *really* big gains if you can actually compact the heap. < 1308800352 652601 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308800366 35557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so do you get any gains on malloc calls? It seems that in a GC language you would still call malloc just as often. < 1308800367 643128 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get amortised O(1) allocation. < 1308800388 643683 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because 99% of the time, malloc is a pointer increment) < 1308800394 227510 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308800414 499619 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: GC's can have a much simpler allocator than malloc. < 1308800427 143846 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is me incompetently implementing GC an "edge case"? < 1308800439 366062 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: We specified "high-quality" for good reason. < 1308800440 559221 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you being incompetent doesn't sound like an edge case to me. < 1308800455 481689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: libc malloc has to search its allocated heap for free space of sufficient size. < 1308800485 627487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would a well-designed GC do for allocation? < 1308800498 2121 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: see boehm gc, ggggc source :P < 1308800504 750943 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr pointer bumping < 1308800521 72470 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://codu.org/projects/ggggc/hg/index.cgi/file/72b3f073cbe4/alloc.c, http://codu.org/projects/ggggc/hg/index.cgi/file/72b3f073cbe4/collector.c < 1308800543 299642 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faster than malloc/free and Boehm GC, pretty competent with Java's (which has the best GC in existence). < 1308800551 805682 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]pretty competitive < 1308800568 608320 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it'll need concurrent and maybe parallel collection to be truly competitive with Java. < 1308800570 746691 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well is the memory allocation used in TeX? That one does not store the size of the allocated memory anywhere, so the function to free the memory must explicity be given the size. < 1308800571 535609 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *malloc(size_t size) {heap_used += size;} < 1308800573 717013 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, the allocator is trivial. < 1308800574 41599 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1308800579 68492 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: seriously? Java's is the best? < 1308800580 847396 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308800581 455965 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *malloc(size_t size) {return (heap += size);} < 1308800600 32895 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What do you mean by "seriously?"? The Java VM is one of the fastest virtual machines in the world in pretty much every aspect. < 1308800610 502564 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Java's garbage collector is a century in the future and probably designed by aliens from space. < 1308800618 236538 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that it has a rather high start-up time and Swing UIs are sluggish has nothing to do with the quality of the VM. < 1308800630 150272 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the first does, but it's because the JVM is so fast that it has a high start-up cost. < 1308800631 640549 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't know. I assumed that because Java was a shitty language it would not have a great implementation. < 1308800640 78745 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srsly? < 1308800645 219926 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise Sun poured millions and millions into Java, right? < 1308800648 384452 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java probably has the best implementation of anything ever. < 1308800677 117544 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the language is terrible, the runtime is so insanely good. < 1308800682 205248 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is how it is because Sun wanted a language that was less of a pain than C++ and safe (i.e. can't segfault, etc.). And Java is that, mostly. < 1308800691 40833 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To defeat it you have to microöptimise C or assembly. < 1308800697 116678 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it put millions of dollars into creating an environment around it. < 1308800698 745206 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it sure worked. < 1308800715 580635 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, that's not quite true, Java doesn't beat compiled languages in benchmarks always. < 1308800725 807733 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's competitive with C++, which is saying something. < 1308800795 364221 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some cases you can use static allocation instead of dynamic allocation. < 1308800816 483343 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially they traded segfaults for null pointer exceptions. :P < 1308800827 627883 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308800835 519480 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Please, null has been in most languages since the sixties. < 1308800854 762000 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, that's not what I meant. < 1308800854 912875 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are almost as bad as segfaults though, that is certainly true. < 1308800874 529455 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a perfectly fair criticism, it's just that null isn't Java's fault :P < 1308800894 774209 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean that null pointer exception is the most common error I've seen when debugging java. So it is comparable to segfaults in C(++)? < 1308800926 440168 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's similar, because e.g. < 1308800927 844129 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very few languages don't have that misfeature, though. < 1308800933 410356 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C you would write a search function returning either a pointer to the found data or NULL < 1308800937 72476 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308800938 876951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you used that without checking you could get segfaults < 1308800944 673076 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically = null pointer exceptions < 1308800946 44321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1308800970 74619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never get those problems in Perl. My code just doesn't work. :D < 1308800975 764768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :big difference, right. < 1308800976 383338 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :undef < 1308801001 425235 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I don't get an /exception/, just more undefs, usually. < 1308801003 906243 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: help me debug my space leak or DIE. < 1308801015 864911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIG DIFFERENCE, as I said. < 1308801020 985630 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge difference. massive. < 1308801026 944431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :galactic < 1308801027 875933 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: or you. < 1308801048 756570 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1308801055 394960 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a *for? < 1308801072 572216 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: help me debug my space leak or DIE. < 1308801080 546729 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yeah dude I'm a master of Haskell. < 1308801085 736481 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this a difference space leak? < 1308801094 657446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*different < 1308801099 26852 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope :) < 1308801102 869681 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just can't find it, argh < 1308801107 106887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CODE PLZ. < 1308801107 598262 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should have constant memory use :( < 1308801111 935517 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEED CODE. I AM HUNGRY. < 1308801144 301176 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/aViQ; the profiling results say it's in option, but I suspect countBytes is being inlined by optimisation or something into optBytes, so it might be in countBytes instead < 1308801150 323908 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already strictified option as much as I can, so < 1308801160 156083 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, oh dear, I think I may be overly strict < 1308801161 426441 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in wcthere < 1308801162 766156 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc there < 1308801165 166420 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1308801171 902222 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, it should have constant memory use, but it grows forever < 1308801173 710147 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try on a one gig file < 1308801282 659142 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, depends on iteratee and fclabels < 1308801334 406300 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile with: ghc --make -Wall -O2 wc.hs < 1308801349 161141 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use to profile? < 1308801363 799472 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308801401 64476 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it is not in countBytes, i just checked by removing the options stuff < 1308801413 234868 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: compile normally, then compile with -prof -auto-all -osuf p_o < 1308801422 893513 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ./wc quux +RTS -p produces wc.prof < 1308801434 346735 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ghc manual for heap profiling options, -hc produces a basic thing which you can convert to a postscript file to view < 1308801447 643574 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the leak is in optBytes < 1308801470 967395 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning it's in option somewhere < 1308801526 22958 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this program is mad strict. < 1308801530 804399 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ho, I think of course, < 1308801532 799469 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what? no it's not < 1308801540 311509 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I _think_ I might have figured out the problem < 1308801546 893417 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a Haskell program anyways < 1308801555 872807 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1308801561 954580 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are exactly two functions with any kind of strictness annotations < 1308801564 364815 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine. it's not. < 1308801566 852935 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In LLVM, Is it possible means to, like, assume x>0 if you have a command test x>0 and then branch to an "unreachable" instruction if false, In case the optimizer does something with that, somehow? < 1308801569 281838 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :countBytes, to make the byte count strict < 1308801570 916444 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and option < 1308801575 827175 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a misguided attempt to reduce a thunk leak that isn't there < 1308801578 177228 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i am now fixing for real < 1308801590 920646 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why not ask in the llvm channel on oftc? < 1308801597 824371 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it I.zip perhaps? < 1308801606 206471 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's the fact that I don't zip it all at once < 1308801609 717069 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ < 1308801612 361270 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did already. Do you have any opinions about it though? < 1308801616 439985 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nope < 1308801619 74886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so needs an extra $! < 1308801625 123107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ...no. < 1308801630 65557 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs _less_ strictness < 1308801642 333976 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: btw, if countBytes wasn't strict in n, it would blow up a huge thunk. < 1308801647 894609 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1308801651 351259 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proportional to the size of the file < 1308801667 485290 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just misunderstood what you meant by "zip it all at once" < 1308801672 854527 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you meant zip it strictly. < 1308801702 82994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, i mean zip it _before_ any binds < 1308801705 562973 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ < 1308801707 235963 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may be totally wrong < 1308801713 751101 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, doing < 1308801715 787319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wc <- I.run =<< I.enumHandle I.defaultBufSize handle (countBytes `I.zip` countWords `I.zip` countLines) < 1308801717 65902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a let right? < 1308801717 419476 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :removes the leak entirely < 1308801719 314905 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no. < 1308801720 758806 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to restructure things < 1308801722 214898 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ...no. < 1308801723 120808 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget it < 1308801725 544165 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've solved the leak < 1308801730 155625 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am simply curious now. < 1308801733 346818 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I just have to fix the program... < 1308801739 922573 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i know, but I'm not sure I could explain :) < 1308801809 519060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so what's the associativity rules for functions used with the ` syntax? < 1308801824 719763 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the associativity is irrelevant, but I forget < 1308801828 631759 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr zip < 1308801829 174321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: b = (a, b) < 1308801829 325359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: [b] < 1308801829 325517 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: [(a, b)] < 1308801834 748551 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you declare infix[rl] on non-operators? < 1308801848 226624 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can for `foo` < 1308801855 58756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, also is there a default? < 1308801861 489682 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1308801881 68388 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1308801928 440881 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no clue how you're handling options there.. < 1308802047 421745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see. :) the foldr1 (.) xs defaultProc was confusing me < 1308802051 420701 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't see the 1 < 1308802081 879350 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308802085 968840 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, turns out that way sucks though :) < 1308802093 213636 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying a new way now, it kind of irks me though < 1308802132 904733 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is this some kind of elaborate way to one-up my wc interpreter that was totally superior to your sed one? < 1308802174 896649 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this is me trying to write the fastest wc ever that's feature-complete with gnu's < 1308802183 302480 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in clean, pretty haskell < 1308802225 513864 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that sounds like some serious one-upping right there. >:D < 1308802247 276455 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308802256 628673 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you should one-up the rest of coreutils. :P < 1308802301 168649 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well, my old version is already faster than gnu wc, but its word counting is a bit broken (but it's just as expensive as a "real" word counter, so it's still a fair comparison), and it doesn't handle multibyte or locale word boundaries < 1308802308 656985 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gnu wc with LC_ALL=C, i.e. disabling locale handling < 1308802312 292589 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without LC_ALL=C, gnu wc is totally hopeless < 1308802336 390809 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://sprunge.us/jMOH this is the old version < 1308802337 275063 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so what makes this one faster than gnu's < 1308802344 706774 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: GNU is stupid. < 1308802347 620720 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, iteratees, basically. < 1308802347 797851 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1308802352 776365 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well the gnu wc code probably is not that bad < 1308802356 910353 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that iteratees are great. < 1308802368 624921 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It abstracts C stdio. < 1308802374 244466 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: (that version doesn't do the expensive-but-wrong word handling, the one that does is an abandoned version) < 1308802382 270562 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldl' < 1308802382 999619 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a < 1308802397 638011 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308802400 174114 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Haskell IO is more intelligent than C IO. < 1308802494 868676 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh look the example in Data.Iteratee is even a byte counter. < 1308802515 547327 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: see http://okmij.org/ftp/Streams.html#iteratee, where oleg does his own benchmarked wc :) < 1308802519 725754 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and introduces iteratees) < 1308802529 527033 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/Iteratee/Wc.hs < 1308802576 110373 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, concurrent MUD client in Haskell is a project now. < 1308802597 10272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a job I don't know if I'll work on that anytime soon. < 1308802637 867355 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ Oleg. < 1308802750 870194 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1308802790 821043 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308803153 833539 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1308803162 840014 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, memory leak solved, only problem is that it's kind of ugly < 1308803222 987374 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to make something like that with GNU C: #define static_new(_type) ({ _type x; &x; }) < 1308803230 482225 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops sorry < 1308803230 733699 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308803238 25714 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to make something like that with GNU C: #define static_new(_type) ({ static _type x; &x; }) < 1308803240 280965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is better. < 1308803362 447214 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'd work in GCC, though I *don't* know if it's defined behavior or not. < 1308803379 393241 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle uncurry < 1308803379 583212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude uncurry :: (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1308803379 758632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Tuple uncurry :: (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1308803387 870085 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle uncurry2 < 1308803388 65823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1308803439 458484 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How would you expect to figure out if is defined behavior or not? < 1308803781 821383 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1308803820 639450 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry < 1308803821 590401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c < 1308803844 199456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy stuff. < 1308803858 829138 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308803917 836339 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno; I'm not sure that defined/undefined behavior is well-defined for GNU C. < 1308803948 605041 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I knew I'd get your attention with this one. Let me start out by saying that I'm not here to trash, insult or attack women. Instead, I want people to better understand that men and women are more alike than they think when it comes to sex and sins of the flesh. In order to do this, I will show, by example, how women behave in the exact manner that they accuse only men of behaving: like pigs." < 1308803954 985994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love finding terrible things randomly on the internet < 1308803993 772655 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this man is a scholar of the highest tier. < 1308803994 513971 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...:'( < 1308804022 531756 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uk.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith/59_dating_advice.html < 1308804023 77490 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy < 1308804028 544137 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Men want sex, women want money... Next Page >> < 1308804030 341343 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta press that link < 1308804039 353439 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1308804045 931269 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pig Scale < 1308804046 102579 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Women= [five pictures of a pig] < 1308804058 339506 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is the most horrible thing i have ever seen < 1308804076 397676 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this just for men to read so they can continue to ignore being called pigs < 1308804077 659941 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uk.askmen.com < 1308804099 564587 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6. Women use men for money: The stereotype that men use women for sex has been around for centuries. And when you hear that women use men for cash, remember that that also places them in the pig category. At least we want their bodies, they, in turn, are checking out our checking accounts. So while women complain that men use women for sex, how much better are they if they're using men for materialistic purposes? < 1308804101 631874 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should select a subset of the GNU C features. ({ ... }) is allowed, vararg macros are allowed, case ranges is allowed, pointer arithmetic on void pointers (but not on function pointers, nor is sizeof allowed on void) is allowed, \e is allowed, x?:y is allowed, zero length arrays are allowed. < 1308804143 536199 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just < 1308804145 160732 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst article < 1308804152 248310 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uk.askmen.com, why < 1308804173 354839 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a zero legnth array? < 1308804176 742964 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why 0-length arrays? C99 provides the struct hack in a portable manner. < 1308804191 983634 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im disappointed, i had such high expectations for uk.askmen.com < 1308804195 910409 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: struct foo {blahblahblah; int bar[0];} < 1308804200 366048 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7. Queen of the industry: Yes, men buy pornography, but women dominate the industry. Sex sells and everywhere you look, be it a movie, an album, a magazine cover, the fashion world, or the adult industry, you will always see a woman endorsing sex. < 1308804203 999345 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :endorsing sex: PIG POINTS < 1308804204 978101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also structures with no members, and unnamed struct/union fields. < 1308804210 831625 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308804215 244905 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Used to represent an array with a header. < 1308804218 111546 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's the real oinker here? Next Page >> < 1308804225 413279 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i like how he doesnt even bother keeping score for men < 1308804227 208614 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The C99 equivalent is struct foo {blahblahblah; int bar[];} < 1308804238 919689 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flexible array members are different according to the GCC manual: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.6.0/gcc/Zero-Length.html#Zero-Length < 1308804247 259808 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I dunno about no-member structs, but unnamed fields is C1x. < 1308804270 718834 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember another great thing like that but I forgot where < 1308804271 94926 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "Get it on Mr. Clinton! You Go Lewinsky!" last line < 1308804277 443458 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about turning femenists into "real girls" < 1308804283 328687 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i saw that too < 1308804288 990372 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great article < 1308804292 306731 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the [0] is actually simpler and more sensible to fit with C in my opinion; it is possible for the compiler to do nothing special and work. < 1308804293 289161 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still not sure it was actually real < 1308804296 62017 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to believe < 1308804318 572520 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the copy i saw was a photo/scan of a magazine but i forget the magazine name < 1308804322 45486 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, *but* it's non-standard. < 1308804326 251371 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was a mens magazine < 1308804331 422167 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and also long long int is allowed. < 1308804343 151523 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it's trivial like that, you really should prefer standard features. < 1308804345 179613 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes, askmen is a men's magazine < 1308804347 281663 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :long long is C99. < 1308804357 460657 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no I mean the article about turning femenists into "real girls" < 1308804361 279076 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :long long long? < 1308804363 238758 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, some of these features are C99 features. Some are not. < 1308804364 545387 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't think it was askmen < 1308804367 250169 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: yes, askmen is a men's magazine < 1308804370 911967 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for this valuable info < 1308804373 902741 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it was... maxim i think? < 1308804378 123879 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes maxim < 1308804380 138898 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: just clearing up some confusion. < 1308804387 678178 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does =~ in ruby do? < 1308804388 805058 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=w= < 1308804394 808858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: probably regex stuff. < 1308804399 661034 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that is what it does in Perl. < 1308804407 499675 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Ruby jacked Perl's regex syntax. < 1308804409 426436 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why pointer arithmetic on void*? < 1308804411 800461 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I am saying is simply a simpler C than GNU C that is a subset of GNU C and a superset of standard C. < 1308804425 993757 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I know. < 1308804433 79682 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have no idea what kind of regex stuff. < 1308804434 584104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saying what makes sense to me, at least. < 1308804436 298667 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: $string =~ m/pattern/ < 1308804444 940562 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: or string, or whatever your variable is in Ruby. < 1308804447 640539 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@string even < 1308804448 209767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1308804451 773267 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, all this nitpicking aside, that subset of GNU C seems like the subset that C compilers are likely to implement, so. < 1308804455 699737 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :if word =~ /([\W\d]+)/ < 1308804457 455017 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How cryptic. < 1308804461 670425 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: not really. < 1308804479 527489 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is =~ "matches?" < 1308804480 221577 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it matches, that returns true. It matches one or more repetitions of non-word characters or digits. < 1308804484 9205 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1308804496 271415 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :=~ is "apply this regexp to a string" < 1308804501 690279 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be a match or a substition. < 1308804517 864120 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So because there's no second // part, it's a match? < 1308804518 526732 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ltcconline.net/lukas/gender/political/pics/political21.jpg found a copy < 1308804520 112884 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of /.../, that is a match. < 1308804530 351850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: no, because there's no s. Substition looks like: s/.../.../ < 1308804532 433518 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1308804534 80711 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not a substitution < 1308804536 794161 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing in ruby < 1308804539 155138 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :substitution is a separate function < 1308804542 141712 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ah. < 1308804543 640784 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really? < 1308804545 231038 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=~ is match in ruby < 1308804551 81323 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame. :P < 1308804551 232157 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also mutates global variables relating to the match < 1308804577 702321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: okay, well everything I said applies in Perl. m/.../ is match in Perl, but the m is optional. < 1308804597 378420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, it is my opinion too. It is what makes sense to me without adding too much stuff that didn't seem to fit. < 1308804603 790888 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and also // comments are allowed. < 1308804616 819084 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :// is C99, so they damned well *better* support it. < 1308804617 449593 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1308804643 109473 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, it's in the common subset of C and C++. < 1308804660 110367 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am talking about something else; this subset is usable in the semiGNU C89 mode as well. In semiGNU C99, of course it is already allowed, as well as many more things. < 1308804690 124595 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you're talking C89 you should probably add a few more things. < 1308804699 572404 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: also, there's probably a !~ operator, which would be "does not match" < 1308804703 256033 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :First and foremost: mixed declarations and statements. < 1308804732 810569 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps also _Pragma, just because #pragma is a complete misfeature. < 1308804748 708283 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. I think is not necessary to add that. Although of course in C99 mode is allowed. < 1308804762 712875 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, just consider C99. < 1308804771 203967 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 is older than I am. < 1308804814 661883 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 itself is 12 years old. < 1308804828 370605 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And soon to be deprecated. < 1308804848 392696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 includes some things I think do not belong. Even GNU89 includes some things I think do not belong. Is why I invent this subset (I believe it works in GNU89 mode in both GCC and LLVM C compiler, but both of them support more than what I said) < 1308804870 334239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with C99? < 1308804906 206891 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think untagged unions are the lamest thing ever. Even lamer than Ruby's use of a substitute method instead of s/// < 1308804966 602423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Many things. There are some good things with it, though. Just some things I believe does not fit very well with my idea of what C should be. Maybe some people might agree and others disagree, possibly, which is also OK. < 1308804972 957819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lameness is an important quality, that should be avoided. < 1308804979 969989 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's better to conflate an operation upon a regexp and a function with an operation upon a regexp that the former uses < 1308804987 789281 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby's use makes noOooOooo sense < 1308805023 817268 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being lame does not imply making no sense. < 1308805072 205635 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I bet you've got problems with < 1308805181 506822 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the other stuff seems either benign or fixing something that was done distinctly on different systems. < 1308805182 129920 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: also that's a strange way of looking at it, I think. < 1308805201 679054 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really isnt < 1308805206 401552 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s vs m makes no sense at all < 1308805223 217926 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance: variable-length arrays, to replace much of the use-case for alloca, which is nearly impossible to use portably) < 1308805234 809703 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:48:55 < elliott_> =~ is match in ruby < 1308805235 6727 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49:00 < elliott_> it also mutates global variables relating to the match < 1308805241 945907 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :global mutation? really? < 1308805256 222255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all just for the benefit of syntactic shorthand. It's not really a jacked up semantic model at all. < 1308805260 216355 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so you can do e.g. < 1308805267 140557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: capture variables, yes. < 1308805269 5117 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :puts $1 if foo =~ /abc(bar)/ < 1308805291 723610 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't like that, then just assign your capture variable to a different name, problem solved. < 1308805293 533515 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: How Perl. < 1308805311 354029 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well in ruby $ means global < 1308805328 202814 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still a very Perl-like thing. < 1308805338 687408 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, complex numbers in C is the most problem. < 1308805347 204768 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's optional in C1x. < 1308805532 653260 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they're making unmandatory a couple of features. < 1308805546 768028 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: qr, m, and s are all their own operators. =~ is an application, and without it the operation is applied on $_. What is nonsensical about that? There's no function. Nothing is conflated. It doesn't work like that. < 1308805589 197572 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they really did get that from Perl. < 1308805596 657012 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.../.../ does not produce a result that =~ takes. < 1308805603 486388 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes it's exactly the same in appearance < 1308805609 568700 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: if you get it from Perl, you're doing it wrong. < 1308805636 963874 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Particularly* if you intend to have programs longer than 20 lines or so in it. < 1308805641 579249 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake "likes perl" prophet < 1308805659 241077 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it is conflating distinct operations, you just defend perl no matter what stupid decisions it makes < 1308805667 63384 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not really interested in arguing this < 1308805774 322296 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : makeIter Main 473 4 67.7 68.1 71.1 69.5 < 1308805774 513263 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : countBytes Main 478 1048577 2.1 1.4 2.1 1.4 < 1308805777 45368 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my, makeIter is slow < 1308805782 851538 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I have reasons for defending it. it's not an irrationality. Perl is not a religion. < 1308805807 540881 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, there is definitely no rational way to defend this aspect of perl, or at least it is not what you said < 1308805840 189177 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are defending awk++. Stop it. < 1308805856 854215 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(x<=0) __builtin_unreachable(); < 1308805865 710172 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that have any meaning at all? < 1308805870 757596 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: perl is not indefensible < 1308805877 588943 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: only if you have an else after, I think < 1308805908 767302 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Behavior is undefined after reaching that function. < 1308805941 224523 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know it is undefined. < 1308805953 135602 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used to give the optimiser a hint that control doesn't go past that point. < 1308805961 539555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that. < 1308805975 472727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then... Why did you ask? < 1308806004 489226 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is a bit different. See that it is an unusual kind of use that the GCC manual does not mention for this command. < 1308806080 5762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: basically you are saying I cannot defend a syntactic construct because it's convenient. < 1308806084 890175 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is somehow possible for the optimizer to deduce x is positive at that point (maybe it is returned from an external function that the compiler does not know about)? Or, do something similar to assume it is not null pointer, or whatever? < 1308806092 304452 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is back, with chips. :D < 1308806109 934196 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: < 1308806121 972008 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It is *possible* for the optimizer to make that deduction from that, yes. < 1308806124 766018 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice quine. < 1308806131 358012 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$foo =~ s/a/b/g; < 1308806137 65309 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.gsub! /a/g, "b" < 1308806138 356380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me that maybe it does mean that but I don't know if it actually does that. < 1308806141 499543 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow yes, that last one sure is less convenient < 1308806144 634994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURE IS < 1308806170 372735 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.gsub! /a(.)/g { |x| x.upcase } < 1308806180 741861 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOOPS look at that, doing it the proper way allows using functions far more conveniently than Perl's ugly /e < 1308806185 380739 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN this is so inconvenient < 1308806192 172712 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so glad Perl conflates matching and substitution instead < 1308806232 867240 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is absolutely no difference. Your complaint is a syntactic preference. < 1308806249 207393 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no conflation of... anything. < 1308806258 232825 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1308806267 572506 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when i said i wasn't interested because you're just a perl fanboy < 1308806270 274634 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1308806285 806654 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no this is a revolutionary new paradigm < 1308806292 344939 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can compare two different ways of doing something with an example program < 1308806296 742534 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it has to be a purely syntactic issue < 1308806307 840429 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERY LANGUAGE IS JUST A DIFFERENCE OF SYNTACTIC PREFERENCES!!!!!! < 1308806308 386642 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1308806311 863301 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :semantics aren't real! < 1308806316 670090 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this is so zepto!!!! < 1308806319 574884 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1308806320 397641 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is semantically different here? < 1308806341 646439 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fun: I managed to make shish compile to 940 bytes. < 1308806410 360591 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, absurd C. < 1308806483 601166 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is more than syntactic preferences. It is a large part of it though. < 1308806501 571946 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: aside from the scoping of variables in the upcase example compared to how you would do it in Perl, there isn't really any semantic difference. < 1308806520 761760 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, my interest in discussing this with you is zero. < 1308806588 164043 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's a discussion; I considerably doubt any argument you would be able to come up with would sway me, and I very much doubt you'd concede that what Perl is doing is a semantic conflation, so it's akin to two missionaries trying to convert the other. which is never going to happen over at maximum an hour or two of irc. < 1308806608 577718 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/hZNB (for those who are curious) < 1308806641 883815 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, if you explained what is semantically different, I could at least tell you why I think you're wrong. :P < 1308806652 714312 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you could do the same. Sounds fun! < 1308806664 313383 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: exactly, all you want to do is explain to me why Perl is right < 1308806676 35848 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no part of you that is open to reconsidering whether it might be, and the same for me < 1308806676 392403 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because as everyone knows < 1308806678 753094 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is always right < 1308806679 114946 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. I just want to explain that is semantically the same. < 1308806686 283264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+it < 1308806686 927422 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that i'm right, and you're wrong, and I'm not interested in going back and forth. < 1308806694 494178 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: exactly, all you want to do is explain to me why Perl is right < 1308806716 482936 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's the same but also wrong (it isn't the same (also it's all wrong)) < 1308806723 974065 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that small strcpy sucks, you can do that in asm shorter < 1308806734 232388 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: lets appreciate haskell together < 1308806738 435362 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there's no normative argument here. Programming languages are not ethical assertions. < 1308806738 635627 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be great and unproductive < 1308806759 254158 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha WOW shut up < 1308806772 501174 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not saying that no argument could take place < 1308806777 779894 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying the argument you want to take place would not be one < 1308806781 443840 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a doctor of programming language ethics < 1308806817 56487 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that is not appreciating haskell < 1308806817 306734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, if you're just going to laugh at me, I suppose I don't really want to talk about it. < 1308806839 691689 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was laughing at your statement < 1308806857 446994 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally like haskell but the complex/irregular syntax gets on my nerves, especially when it comes to metaprogramming < 1308806862 619292 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not sure why you're continually pushing me into a silly folly i've expressed repeated disinterest in having < 1308806869 24308 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: metaprogramming as in template haskell? < 1308806872 111959 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the lack of nested (pattern) guards. < 1308806898 638468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I am genuinely curious as to what you think is happening when you use regexps in Perl. Semantically. What evaluates to what. < 1308806904 29027 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes; I forget if there are any others but I've never looked much at them < 1308806907 154665 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you don't understand what semantics are < 1308806918 564511 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I mean, I still think that if you realise that operators are regular and user-defined, Haskell's syntax is actually one of the simplest languages in terms of syntax; no Lisp obviously, but it's close < 1308806932 32068 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (and Lisp has syntax, really, it's just hidden in the special forms) < 1308806935 917708 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1308806943 339232 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: right, well, Template Haskell is ugly... but it's also not something you use a lot < 1308806954 495042 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308806968 798509 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: uh, the meaning of a program? < 1308806981 410202 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and the most common uses of TH -- quasiquotation and top-level ... I forget the term, $() things -- are pretty as of GHC 7 < 1308806996 420882 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're talking about a specific semantic theory, then you're right I don't know anything about that. < 1308806999 800809 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc $() is "splicing" < 1308807004 603796 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I checked the docs at least < 1308807007 700585 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: [qq|...|] and at the top level, -- ah yes top level splice -- you can omit $() < 1308807009 151765 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so e.g. < 1308807012 785784 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkLabels [''MyDataType] < 1308807031 133938 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right that defining those is pretty super-ugly, though < 1308807038 32631 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308807039 852152 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's comprehensive, though < 1308807049 669429 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I use TH rarely < 1308807065 420870 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can define your own control structures without it, it's not that useful most of the time < 1308807068 328811 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I last used it two years ago so my memory's a bit foggy < 1308807072 206317 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308807086 469925 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: haskell or TH? < 1308807089 201830 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TH < 1308807095 18285 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I last used haskell today or was it yesterday < 1308807095 381828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language do you normally use anyhow < 1308807098 537 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell < 1308807102 48372 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P < 1308807136 150156 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't really use any language other than haskell at this point, even disregarding the language itself, it's just so far ahead in pretty much everything < 1308807151 106763 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing, IO, state management, concurrency, text processing... < 1308807232 512818 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308807534 162257 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Eric Gill, the designer of the famous Gill Sans typeface: "His personal diaries describe his sexual activity in great detail including the fact that Gill sexually abused his own children, had an incestuous relationship with his sister and performed sexual acts on his dog." < 1308807564 394161 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is the typeface any good < 1308807621 968948 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ever looked at the BBC logo? or anything else the BBC has ever done? < 1308807633 520586 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the bbc < 1308807639 688987 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you're joking right < 1308807641 90502 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: not everyone is a limey. < 1308807648 688413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an American, I guess. < 1308807655 55911 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say I've ever taken a good look at it < 1308807655 407636 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes, non-limeys don't know what the bbc is. < 1308807658 880504 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1308807669 747633 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'd say most Americans know of the BBC. < 1308807678 191052 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer lots of serifs on my typefaces < 1308807683 569421 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, that is what I said. < 1308807690 434390 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the bbc use gill sans almost exclusively. gill sans is used a lot in railway stuff in the uk. < 1308807697 50489 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tufte uses gill sans on his website (THANKS WIKIPEDIA) < 1308807701 696099 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :child abuse endorsement < 1308807703 540822 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe it or not, we're not completely ignorant of the UK; it's one of the few countries that we don't ignore, in fact. < 1308807706 688741 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: definitely < 1308807728 123625 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Gill Sans is a nice font. < 1308807732 330812 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and the child was a _dog_, too! wait, you're referring to his kids. < 1308807755 95105 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bestiality endorsement < 1308807758 668386 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the revelations about Gill's private life resonated, there was a reassessment of his personal and artistic achievement. As his recent biographer sums up: < 1308807758 849390 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After the initial shock, […] as Gill's history of adulteries, incest, and experimental connection with his dog became public knowledge in the late 1980s, the consequent reassessment of his life and art left his artistic reputation strengthened. Gill emerged as one of the twentieth century's strangest and most original controversialists, a sometimes infuriating, always arresting spokesman for man's continuing need of God in an increasingly materialis < 1308807759 309 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tic civilization, and for intellectual vigour in an age of encroaching triviality."[8] < 1308807777 476075 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, it's not Helvetica. < 1308807787 616570 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how he's all... < 1308807790 653883 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well we got over the child abuse thing" < 1308807863 612063 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honk < 1308807884 993072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ Homestuck withdrawal < 1308807914 975054 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders at Arial having ever been made < 1308807925 223540 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: fonts cannot be copyrighted in the US. < 1308807932 471100 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :comic sans ms, papyrus < 1308807934 257585 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :classics there < 1308807945 412348 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes they can < 1308807948 970618 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typefaces can't though < 1308807958 25229 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think that is only for raster fonts < 1308807960 656391 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Ah, right, sorry. The distinction is important. < 1308807967 887115 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know for sure < 1308807969 945053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wingdings is another classic. < 1308807972 989257 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The shape of the glyphs is uncopyrightable. < 1308807999 511793 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. < 1308808001 477690 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A programmatic representation of them, such as a TTF file, can be under copyright. < 1308808007 886300 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What about patents < 1308808063 794279 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, amusing: Other people can't file patents if we have them. No, you're wrong. < 1308808077 531494 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Novel designs can be patented. < 1308808087 564001 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1992, only days after the release of Windows 3.1, it was discovered that the character sequence "NYC" in Wingdings was rendered as a skull and crossbones symbol, Star of David, and thumbs up gesture. This was often interpreted as an antisemitic message.[8] Microsoft strongly denied this was intentional, and insisted that the final arrangement of the glyphs in the font was largely random. (The character sequence "NYC" < 1308808131 216375 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :How strange. < 1308808160 248128 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Of course, such a patent on Helvetica would have expired when Arial was made. < 1308808165 559243 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence, Arial has no reason to exist. < 1308808187 877633 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: are you serious < 1308808194 176768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh yes. < 1308808199 762019 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like really < 1308808210 768315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the article ☎ redirects to telephone on Wikipedia. I found this amusing. < 1308808215 165442 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Wingdings_NYC.svg < 1308808221 100162 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but are you serious < 1308808230 947868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ...now I don't know what you mean. < 1308808232 97344 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can i improve upon shish < 1308808236 415787 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Feel free. < 1308808238 34673 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: like do you really think that is strange < 1308808252 200923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. I think it's strange that people would notice something like that and freak out. < 1308808270 462643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This program http://sprunge.us/hZNB seems like it is one that should be written assembly language, not in C, it seems to me < 1308808303 403553 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It halfway is. < 1308808347 221023 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can you link me to the gcc docs on __asm__ thx < 1308808368 29610 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw the "c" (status) line has tabs < 1308808370 288685 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Extended-Asm.html < 1308808376 7969 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so do the pid and options lines < 1308808376 919410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz fix < 1308808380 489198 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also other ones < 1308808480 416924 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reversible CA on a torus must eventually repeat everything, right? Because a normal CA on a torus eventualy goes in a loop like.... suppose I have a timeline A B C, then a normal CA might start from B. But a reversible CA, if it did that, would lose information about A, an dit would also imply that theee are two ways to get to B. < 1308808494 460881 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CA? < 1308808501 480303 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308808533 672632 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: seriously? < 1308808544 215590 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, how would I get esi and edi set to specific values in an asm? < 1308808551 285856 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: he obviously means california from this context < 1308808559 156673 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also say i read esi and clobber bytes at edi and beyond (as a pointer) < 1308808564 896435 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no he doesn't < 1308808634 692661 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, cellular automata < 1308808652 359825 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: esi and edi are S and D < 1308808668 356674 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: not really, there are plenty of patterns that could die without any repetition. Essentially it is the same thing as a CA that wraps around. < 1308808680 495732 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, do the rep prefixes modify the destination poitner? < 1308808680 839496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer < 1308808701 227193 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly off topic for this channel, but might be amusing read http://adamharley.co.uk/2011/06/wordpress-plugin-backdoors/ < 1308808716 426436 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plugin. backdoors. < 1308808717 183794 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: are you kidding, we are never on topic < 1308808726 29824 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :analysis of the rogue source commits found on the wordpress repo recently < 1308808726 491702 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: why is that phrase objectionable < 1308808731 736500 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you mean code... has bugs?" < 1308808739 59778 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, hmm, how could something die, though? Death implies that a previous state was similar to the new one, and also a different previous state was more active than the new one < 1308808739 210796 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Hmm? < 1308808744 849423 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: wait, people trust wordpress's code nowadays? < 1308808746 229806 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1308808762 121202 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: do you like reversible cas because they'd prevent death < 1308808763 529898 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That statement, I do not understand it. < 1308808768 670343 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont knwo if they do, but if they do, they should probably upgrade. :) < 1308808777 248997 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: xeightsix asm < 1308808787 35490 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: so they can wait until the next vulnerability is found? < 1308808795 396747 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, presumably a conscious being on a reversible CA could still die, but on a torus, if the world repeats, they'd exist again. < 1308808804 261471 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Ah. I dunno. < 1308808809 335101 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :running code in an unsafe language run by amateurs on a high-profile website, PERFECT IDEA < 1308808818 404251 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/run by/written by/ < 1308808838 402985 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: but is that why you like them < 1308808851 149498 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: perhaps when you are older I will tell you why I found that sequence of characters amusing. < 1308808865 160131 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no, I just want a conserved quantity < 1308808867 418409 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it had nothing to do with code. < 1308808876 463460 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that there's something to compete over other than space < 1308808919 523428 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh, duh < 1308808924 361542 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1308808927 973806 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: my age is irrelevant, it just was not funny. < 1308808935 161009 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with elliott_ < 1308808964 299671 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes it was actually a somewhat juvenile observation. oh well. < 1308808989 330296 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :juvenile is fine as long as it's funny :P < 1308808996 221491 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :amused, not laughing. < 1308809002 979459 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unamused < 1308809004 396909 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but seriously i have to make this code shorter. < 1308809012 448167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hey why are all these asms volatile < 1308809019 775218 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pessimisation < 1308809048 832424 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I've always thought a CA with several interesting states would be... interesting. < 1308809060 741513 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is something completely different than what you're talking about. < 1308809068 986240 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you know the Interesting Number Theorem? < 1308809073 602920 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1308809084 670343 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: . < 1308809088 217558 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem: Every natural number is interesting < 1308809091 658639 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Someone who's never heard of it? < 1308809108 534272 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Actually, probably no good reason, thinking about it now. < 1308809139 740543 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof: Consider the set of uninteresting natural numbers. If nonempty, it must contain a least element, which is the lowest uninteresting natural number. This is an interesting property. Contradiction. Therefore the set is empty. < 1308809143 265402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sounds very, uh, interesting. < 1308809161 832564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is every theorem interesting? < 1308809172 524887 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shishorig.c: In function ‘small_waitpid’: < 1308809172 705318 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shishorig.c:59: error: ‘__NR_waitpid’ undeclared (first use in this function) < 1308809172 882896 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shishorig.c:59: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once < 1308809173 33661 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shishorig.c:59: error: for each function it appears in.) < 1308809174 133661 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1308809178 241489 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a thing as a noncomputable theorem? < 1308809192 69167 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The Interesting Number Theorem can be extended to any countable set < 1308809192 246208 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: how about defining that and then asking < 1308809223 433536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so then theorems are a countable set? < 1308809228 985981 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1308809230 432678 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: obviously < 1308809233 452121 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you all pikhq should just fix my problem < 1308809236 516984 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Strange. That's in asm/unistd.h, part of the kernel headers. < 1308809240 813451 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but this particular issue has nothing to do with amateur developers. < 1308809252 130793 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pretends not to have asked a similar question as CakeProphet did, even if I was joking < 1308809253 24956 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: sure < 1308809253 382147 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an intentionally placed backdoor through compromised accounts < 1308809257 872102 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: but it still involves trusting wordpress code :) < 1308809261 445473 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that depends... < 1308809265 698342 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the set of proofs is countable, the set of truths is not < 1308809278 135441 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* bloggers.. < 1308809282 278516 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: im on sixtyfour bit btw < 1308809284 451891 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it does depend on your definition of theorem, however < 1308809287 706400 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i donnut use the wordpress < 1308809295 455867 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: -m32 < 1308809295 935949 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a theorem can be expressed as a finite set of definitions, plus a statement < 1308809298 782754 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: kay < 1308809301 60898 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so am I. < 1308809316 269546 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: a theorem is a statement and a proof < 1308809319 306767 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there are countable theorems < 1308809320 681420 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This *really* won't work on x86_64. < 1308809322 342767 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a theorem is a statement that is true < 1308809324 884750 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there are uncountable theorems < 1308809329 982856 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: right < 1308809338 468848 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/ccP6IGbl.o: In function `_start': < 1308809338 648535 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shishorig.c:(.text+0x4d): undefined reference to `__builtin_unreachable' < 1308809338 799571 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shishorig.c:(.text+0x177): undefined reference to `__builtin_unreachable' < 1308809341 185875 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess ill use a newer gcc < 1308809349 442978 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: The true statements expressible in the English language are, however, countable < 1308809358 421573 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: should shish just hang when you start it < 1308809358 572526 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in any reasonable human language < 1308809363 643460 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that has nothing to do with formal logic < 1308809375 12721 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: neither do theorems < 1308809377 510694 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fuck, it segfaults on input. < 1308809386 767763 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes they do, theorem is a term of formal logic < 1308809406 458928 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./shishorig < 1308809406 637650 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdjoasd < 1308809406 788732 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asoijd < 1308809406 788926 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdijasdoijaosdjasdj < 1308809406 789032 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[control+D]Segmentation fault < 1308809407 531965 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: see above < 1308809409 929657 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Formal logical theorems are different from English theorems, though < 1308809410 947543 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the set of countable sets countable? < 1308809420 146996 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: dude, no < 1308809427 553340 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: nobody says theorem to mean "something true in English" apart from nerds trying to sound smart < 1308809428 127205 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yeah, WTF. < 1308809438 592555 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: jesus < 1308809446 56639 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: which is the One True Formal Logic then? < 1308809448 164648 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Oh, wait. Of course it's not going to do anything if it gets passed a non-command. < 1308809453 688601 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kripke modal logic? < 1308809456 19028 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: there is none, obviously < 1308809461 662083 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: english isn't a formal logic though < 1308809485 888962 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was answering in terms of the most common logics, i don't know of one anyone uses that has a countable number of truths < 1308809496 342418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i tried "ls" < 1308809500 117819 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Also, it does not understand PATH. < 1308809501 547271 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that wrong < 1308809511 433553 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, /bin/ls works < 1308809513 232567 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Most logics actually do have a countable number of truths < 1308809523 654408 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are there a countable number of truths in zfc? i very much doubt that. < 1308809539 975673 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: zfc is not a logic < 1308809548 112286 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The volatiles are needed. < 1308809561 642182 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure it is < 1308809564 362534 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a set of axioms < 1308809574 390719 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the set of all logics a countable set? < 1308809583 764533 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ;_; < 1308809595 997535 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've typically seen it presented without syntactic trappings < 1308809599 110209 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"countable" being synonymous with "interesting", now that it is proven. < 1308809607 831338 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not at all < 1308809628 970832 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"countable set" being synonymous with "interesting stuff"...? < 1308809633 222848 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well zfc is basically parameterised over the logic of your choice < 1308809639 78873 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: exactly < 1308809642 18441 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: do you have any idea what you are talking about < 1308809645 431482 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so it's a family of logics :) < 1308809646 481362 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. < 1308809652 440072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could I not know what I am talking about. That is silly. < 1308809672 492830 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even make that a question, because it is so obvious that I do not need to ask. < 1308809679 228822 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: First-order may or may not have a countable number of truths, depending on the model < 1308809692 821921 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the model has an uncountable member, the set of truths be uncountable < 1308809713 770763 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: } else if (*(unsigned*)tokened[0] == '\0tes') { < 1308809716 469183 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is this for "env"? < 1308809722 205229 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one use this :P < 1308809732 175613 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: fair 'nuff < 1308809736 169123 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first-order logic upsets me :( < 1308809740 735804 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes, that's for env. < 1308809742 850135 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like not having first-class functions < 1308809745 707411 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so "env foo-bar"? < 1308809748 36760 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo=bar < 1308809767 703192 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: "set foo=bar" < 1308809767 853994 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: assuming unsigned * is a 4 byte integer? < 1308809776 21808 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :err 4 byte value < 1308809777 95929 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how come /usr/bin/env does nothing < 1308809782 491835 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: yeah this program is wildly unportable < 1308809819 246288 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Define "does nothing". < 1308809835 971563 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: $ ./shishorig < 1308809836 159452 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/env < 1308809836 159641 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/echo hello < 1308809836 159753 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1308809844 252994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should print the environment < 1308809852 315878 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1308809854 851726 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the environment starts off empty < 1308809855 567067 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1308809860 940595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i broke strcpy < 1308809895 487183 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This really, truly is the shittiest shell possible. < 1308809907 656866 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if the interesting number theorem can be extended to any countable set, then that means all countable sets contain interesting elements. :) < 1308809913 303717 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there a gcc-favoured way to get a constant value into a register in an __asm__? < 1308809924 500366 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blah" (9090)? < 1308809930 996398 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can now use this theorem to gauge the interestingness of things, though I cannot determine if something is not interesting. < 1308809971 568423 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right yes it's that < 1308809976 224671 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sigh < 1308810017 147692 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed interesting. < 1308810227 883782 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ugh, how do you just say you are clobbering a register? < 1308810232 959479 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without actually outputting it to anything < 1308810305 390623 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Pretty sure you just give the constraint for the register. < 1308810330 438910 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how < 1308810336 771183 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :__asm__("..." : : "=a", ...) < 1308810340 13602 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :produces a syntax error < 1308810344 10577 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balls. < 1308810357 322297 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh, wait, obvious error is obvious. < 1308810368 686343 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the obvious error < 1308810393 274847 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"=a" is used to indicate that the operand is an output, and you stuck it with the inputs. < 1308810412 271111 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :__asm__("..." : "=a" : ...) < 1308810417 798870 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :already tried that < 1308810431 362724 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try ()? < 1308810437 805457 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :already tried that < 1308810448 8465 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :../Desktop/shish.c:55:13: error: matching constraint references invalid operand number < 1308810462 941099 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1308810467 190328 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just put it in the clobbered list < 1308810467 369363 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1308810501 164175 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was simple. :P < 1308810519 299541 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work, wtf < 1308810633 725811 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you prove that all rational numbers are interesting? < 1308810641 104720 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :../Desktop/shish.c:33:12: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘:’ token < 1308810641 282314 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1308810653 180107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, the rational numbers aren't countable, DUHHHHHH < 1308810659 9206 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro said it only applies to countable sets < 1308810660 257279 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH < 1308810664 683394 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DURHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH < 1308810675 727782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, this is a new theorem that we are trying to prove. :) < 1308810680 522318 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1308810683 740702 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you actually believe that < 1308810755 189549 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if we could prove that uncountable sets are also interesting, and that cardinality of a set corresponds to more interesting sets < 1308810761 397436 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we could find THE MOST INTERESTING set. < 1308810770 277341 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, rational numbers are countable < 1308810780 248822 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradoxes are pretty interesting. how about one of those. < 1308810783 180566 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well played < 1308810877 501140 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, you've caught me, I don't know everything. < 1308810925 648886 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually expect to be bottom of the #esoteric barrel. I mean, top of most people I meet IRL, but this place is ... I'm low here < 1308810957 324352 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops being mean to CakeProphet  < 1308811033 984402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you guys are going to hurt my feelings. :( < 1308811049 638597 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1308811066 85047 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy solution to that. Queen. < 1308811131 908374 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1308811143 654033 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's talking about the band? maybe? < 1308811146 964828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure. < 1308811156 32329 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why I said it. < 1308811161 516045 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I was referring to the band. < 1308811170 567272 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the album, but mostly the band. < 1308811192 724994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott_: well played < 1308811194 154241 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarcasm? < 1308811206 820866 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was sure the durhhhhs would give me away :( < 1308811222 876641 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh no, you've caught me, I don't know everything. < 1308811234 391109 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry dude but knowing the rationals are countable is like the second thing to know about countability after what it is < 1308811278 535797 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is essentially what I know about countability. < 1308811319 399329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did not occur to me that every quotient of any two natural numbers can also be counted. < 1308811344 99764 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Involve an infinite number of natural numbers, _then_ it's uncountable < 1308811372 551668 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's utterly trivial to do an isomorphism from (Integer, Integer) to Integer. < 1308811430 229471 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any tuple, really. < 1308811431 790411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....? but aren't rational numbers a quotient of /any/ (read: from an infinite set of natural numbers) integers? According to what Sgeo_ says that would make rational numbers uncountable? < 1308811445 349431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol s/integers/natural numbers/ of course < 1308811448 39828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: products of countable sets are countable < 1308811450 254666 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end < 1308811469 34978 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, no, as in, if to specify an entity, it took an infinite amount of natural numbers < 1308811487 678735 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say rationals are points on a 2-dimensional plane (ok, that's redundant, I know) < 1308811503 880551 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cantor_pairing_function#Cantor_pairing_function < 1308811504 744676 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where each dimension is an integer < 1308811515 612478 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the set of infinite lists of naturals is uncountable. < 1308811521 157345 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof: diagonalisation. < 1308811547 25686 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if you had infinite number of dimensions, even though each dimension can only take integer values, the number of points is uncountably infinite < 1308811567 89578 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: this is a really awkward explanation < 1308811586 367243 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, um < 1308811588 650116 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I suspect he's coming up with it as he's going along. Would explain the awkwardness. < 1308811618 601874 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, better yet. Take a real number, which in some cases takes an infintie number of digits to describe < 1308811641 525193 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see how it's countable, I think. But I usually think of these things algorithmically and so I couldn't see a clear algorithm to assign each rational number to a natural number. < 1308811649 874788 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reals are uncountably infinite, even though each digit can only have 1 of 10 values. < 1308811662 459868 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: constructivist < 1308811662 610685 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever base.. which would still be written 10, but wahtever0 < 1308811664 603602 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever) < 1308811674 196156 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you're not making this any less awkward :P < 1308811685 358481 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but consider interleaving the bits, Q.E.D. < 1308811719 440223 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cantor_pairing_function#Cantor_pairing_function < 1308811734 862261 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: And realise that the rationals can be represented as a 2-tuple of naturals. < 1308811766 45958 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's not that simple since you need a bijection < 1308811767 663278 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1308811794 501861 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: The Cantor pairing function is a bijection. < 1308811799 304834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: already realized. Don't need to worry. < 1308811801 135463 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the fact that that function works isn't intuitive to me, I prefer thinking along the lines of assigning 0,0 to 0, 0,1 to 1, 1,0 to 2, etc. etc. etc < 1308811805 776091 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1308811812 753918 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but rationals are not a pair of integers < 1308811816 980575 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I understand it, don't know if this function is equivalent < 1308811817 225093 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1308811831 536382 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, of course dealing with negatives) < 1308811835 690253 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That* bijection is at least a bit more obvious, though. < 1308811858 219771 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: That is the mapping, yes. < 1308811934 522423 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1308812186 892361 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html < 1308812191 535714 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope this has first-class environments < 1308812195 231444 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(sqrt(8*z+1)-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812199 518203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1308812216 70624 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1308812222 295480 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again < 1308812232 710341 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(sqrt(8*z+1)-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812233 604367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (6.0,0.0) < 1308812246 250820 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(truncate (sqrt (8*z+1))-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812247 325052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `t' in the constraints: < 1308812247 475978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Float.Floating t' < 1308812247 476142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1308812254 153562 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(truncate (sqrt (8*z+1) :: CReal)-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812255 225364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral Data.Number.CReal.CReal) < 1308812255 412183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from... < 1308812259 728464 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(truncate (sqrt (8*z+1) :: Double)-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812260 660028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral GHC.Types.Double) < 1308812260 811029 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use ... < 1308812262 836439 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ojgiogjdfog < 1308812268 409572 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t truncate < 1308812270 669429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1308812283 742405 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=((truncate (sqrt (8*z+1) :: Double)::Integer)-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812285 26461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Double' < 1308812285 177379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ty... < 1308812287 143390 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfgh, < 1308812293 394785 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=((truncate (sqrt (8*z+1) :: Double)::Integer)-1) `div` 2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812294 822350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Double' < 1308812294 973293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ty... < 1308812313 612256 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... < 1308812331 472405 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sqrt < 1308812332 470856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a < 1308812337 501652 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still obsessed with the idea that, if intelligent life emerges in a reversible CA on a torus, it _will_ inevitably be destroyed < 1308812346 674759 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are obsessed with everything. < 1308812350 605017 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1308812357 828468 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=((truncate (sqrt (8*(fromIntegral z)+1) :: Double)::Integer)-1) `div` 2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812358 541488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Integer.Type.Integer) < 1308812358 719421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fr... < 1308812361 48965 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromIntegral < 1308812361 760625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b < 1308812383 329639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(truncate (sqrt (8*(fromInteger z)+1) :: Double)-1) `idv` 2; t=(w**2+w) `div` 2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812384 66401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `idv' < 1308812388 482655 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(truncate (sqrt (8*(fromInteger z)+1) :: Double)-1) `div` 2; t=(w**2+w) `div` 2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in icantorpair 21 < 1308812389 369753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Integer.Type.Integer) < 1308812389 520646 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fr... < 1308812393 674143 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you need truncate for? < 1308812393 917671 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the scientists figure out they're on a torus somehow, and understand reversiblity, then... < 1308812395 703653 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aojsdfghj < 1308812401 965345 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i am trying to make it not result in doubles, but am far too lazy < 1308812407 406290 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: oh n0ez < 1308812412 152955 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's wrong with doubles? < 1308812419 616453 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfghm, < 1308812424 677903 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its a bijection on naturals < 1308812435 294058 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but it's a program. it's all good.. < 1308812442 288410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...do you even understand anything < 1308812444 614922 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1308812452 372586 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can reversible CAs be turing-complete? < 1308812457 257322 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just not as picky as you about these things. That is the difference in this case. < 1308812465 47744 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yes. proof: reversible languages can < 1308812467 706931 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's nothing about pickiness < 1308812469 321684 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1308812518 895432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so.. < 1308812543 227257 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are looking for a function (Integer,Integer) -> Integer (actually (Nat,Nat) -> Nat, but unfortunately Haskell has no natural type) < 1308812548 534043 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, reverse that < 1308812561 896479 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours is Integer -> (Double,Double) which is incorrect (actually a bunch of things with Num and Floating but that's irrelevant) < 1308812607 17768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I understand. understood even. < 1308812629 336451 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like writing down 2 + 2 = 5 and saying it's correct because you're not picky. < 1308812679 548969 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no. it's not caring because I am not writing an actual program and only care about getting a result that is readable by me. < 1308812693 353236 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...but it's a program. it's all good.. < 1308812695 357248 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was a program < 1308812713 738970 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not writing something to be re-used. < 1308812715 118365 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you're the one who objected to me attempting to correct your function < 1308812750 699500 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let icantorpair z = let w=(sqrt(8*z+1)-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in map icantpair [0..] < 1308812755 541015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(sqrt(8*z+1)-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in map icantpair [0..] < 1308812756 806452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `icantpair' < 1308812761 999893 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let icantorpair z = let w=(sqrt(8*z+1)-1)/2; t=(w**2+w)/2; y=z-t; x=w-y in (x,y) in map icantorpair [0..] < 1308812763 335698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0.0,0.0),(1.0,0.0),(1.5615528128088303,0.0),(2.0,0.0),(2.3722813232690143... < 1308812769 803018 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that < 1308812773 293149 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using doubles broke your program < 1308812774 382935 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gj < 1308812805 454111 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* Double. It really shouldn't be a Num. < 1308812822 496509 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not, it is a perfectly valid Num < 1308812826 525402 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fault is Num requiring Eq and Show < 1308812830 586572 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is stupid < 1308812849 206101 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating point "numbers" are not associative. < 1308812882 941657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can numbers even be associative? < 1308812884 327167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and? < 1308812887 406308 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: where does Num require this? < 1308812889 26431 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ... < 1308812902 642720 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was the operation/relation that was associative. < 1308812940 641551 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Though the typeclass doesn't require it, the user probably does. < 1308812982 129431 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this is silly; what of surreal numbers/games? < 1308813005 971342 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can hardly define what Num is because the whole typeclass is stupid, there is no point putting additional constraints on < 1308813025 254971 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, the whole typeclass is a misfeature. < 1308813124 375625 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I would prefer that you actually communicate with me instead of being condescending and assuming I'm just stupid. < 1308813141 222176 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with there being, say, vectors, that you might like to be able to use normal addition on, even though there's not really a sane multiplication function for them. < 1308813158 458278 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you criticised me for trying to fix your program, likening it to needless pedanticism; then you respond to an offhand remark of pikhq with needless pedanticism < 1308813175 60709 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i tried to converse with you under such circumstances, it would merely try my patience. < 1308813265 951489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, see. I was fine with you fixing the program. I thought you had gotten it to work when it returned doubles. At that point, I thought you were simply trying to make the types reflect the actual mathematical definition, which I thought was a waste of time since the program seemed to work. My mistake. < 1308813291 309614 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it returned doubles when you wrote it, all my modifications were to make it integers < 1308813304 624517 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fair enough < 1308813321 49046 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah it timed out on mine. I thought you made changes. < 1308813326 893536 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, just re-ran it. < 1308813328 727688 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot does that a lot. < 1308813390 120581 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they would all starve to death. After all, they would likely require some sort of energetic ... stuff for their brains < 1308813396 674743 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1308813399 237744 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1308813446 29525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what on earth... < 1308813473 560353 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could life exist on an abstract mathematical grid? < 1308813500 141554 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1308813504 498147 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can life exist that's made of mathematically describable matter? < 1308813505 760523 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like the universe? < 1308813537 861654 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you mean, what if intelligent life existed in a torus shaped universe? < 1308813546 772818 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the 3-dimensional equivalent. < 1308813568 36706 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sticking with torus shaped universe for simplicity < 1308813602 861982 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: except discrete. < 1308813610 302701 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, what do you mean "how could life exist on an abstract mathematical grid" < 1308813627 372547 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sounds strange to talk about something life on an idea. < 1308813642 36415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1308813651 752705 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im seriously not trying to be condescending you're just not making any sense < 1308813682 18752 :choochter!~choochter@host81-146-28-169.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308813685 784931 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I don't see how it makes sense to talk about things living on an automata. Does that not sound strange to you? < 1308813695 854079 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*automaton < 1308813715 581519 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know of GoL replicators. That's a start < 1308813721 832668 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-185-248.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1308813724 747547 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It is possible that we live in an automaton. < 1308813736 997273 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't see how that sounds strange < 1308813746 844523 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...platonists. < 1308813750 124964 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1308813751 413318 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whether or not we *do* is, of course, an unanswered question ATM.) < 1308813753 770266 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has nothing to do with platonism < 1308813760 531914 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can model the universe FUCK NOW IT'S ABSTRACT HOW CAN LIFE EXIST ANY MORE < 1308813805 978031 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, talking about life in a universe sounds fine to me. But talking about a physical entity on an abstract entity does not make any sense. Sure, we can model physical things with abstract things, but that does not mean they are one and the same. < 1308813815 337780 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise nobody is saying < 1308813818 669971 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if humans were in a CA < 1308813819 758994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're saying < 1308813823 239370 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if life emerged in a CA < 1308813842 227882 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is life made out of a bunch of on-off squares unimaginable to you < 1308813849 577600 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, WHOO boy let me tell you about these things called quarks < 1308813864 824859 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :electrons aren't made of quarks < 1308813908 378957 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, I just tend to think of life as a physical occurence. Talking about intelligent or self-replication in an abstract model makes sense, yes. < 1308813909 634487 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: sorry ill adjust all my jokes for accuracy in future < 1308813913 856813 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*intelligence < 1308813929 708707 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what is not "physical" about a CA < 1308813937 533212 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it because it's two-dimensional < 1308813958 207567 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, didn't you like the mathematical universe hypothesis once? < 1308813966 72591 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that relevant < 1308813971 146256 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has nothing to do with platonism or anything < 1308813976 650368 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's because it is a thing that only exists in our minds. I suppose it has a physical existence in our universe, but it's purely a neurological thing and not an actual 2D grid in our universe. < 1308813999 140101 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do seriously realise you're making no sense at this point? < 1308814004 838452 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1308814009 331364 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagining physical life in a CA is no different to imagining a physical cylinder in an imaginary three dimensional world < 1308814018 171939 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saying you cant imagine a cylinder because IT;S JUST NEUROLOGICAL ... < 1308814024 851140 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :justn o < 1308814027 206231 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]just no < 1308814041 641307 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing non-physical about the cylinder, or the life < 1308814068 885990 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Boy, I bet you'd love you some solipsism. < 1308814086 588403 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, how to word what I am saying. < 1308814123 854350 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can imagine physical things, sure. You can also imagine abstract things, because that is how they come to be in the first place. But I don't see how you can imagine a physical thing in an abstract system where it doesn't belong. < 1308814152 622429 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I understand what Sgeo_ means by "life" in a CA now. < 1308814157 157384 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so what makes imagining a cylinder a physical thing, and imagining CA cells not a physical thing < 1308814162 489309 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it because a CA is discrete? two-dimensional? < 1308814170 21319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes an imagination of an object in a world physical or abstract < 1308814207 322088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a cylinder is also an abstract object... < 1308814220 841600 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so if i imagine my room < 1308814223 101984 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's physical, right? < 1308814232 462929 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. it's not like that. < 1308814238 469638 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is imagining something physical, then? < 1308814280 347128 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you imagine your room, then it can fit together into other imaginings that correspond to the system it resides in. I suppose that means three-dimensional, yes. Since when imagining things, you could also imagining that your room can now fly, or something. < 1308814292 153232 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*imagine < 1308814307 347673 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you really think all of this the first time you got confused by someone saying life or are you just trying to justify it after the fact because that sentence makes literally no sense < 1308814313 285053 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as an explanation as to how it's physical goes < 1308814317 426370 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to correspond to the physical world no. But it generally has to make sense to exist in the imagined environment. < 1308814322 625133 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no this is all justification for your questions. < 1308814451 377638 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to imagine a physical lifeform residing in a concept, and having trouble seeing how that would make sense. But yes, I can see how you can model life in a CA. < 1308814484 804383 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still have no idea how you are defining physical and concept < 1308814490 688672 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you talk about sentient beings "living" in a CA, doesn't make sense to me. < 1308814491 719330 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes a CA a concept and our universe a physical thing < 1308814560 302908 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1308814561 599314 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :different categories of knowledge I suppose. This is a tricky thing for me to try to explain. It's probably an intuitive notion to a degree. < 1308814599 296174 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Minecraft physical in this sense or a concept < 1308814602 580711 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you imagine living in Minecraft < 1308814665 731271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine living in Minecraft, but I could not actually live in Minecraft. Also, to be an accurate representation of Minecraft, I would have to conform to Minecraft physics. < 1308814673 140942 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I would have to be made of large blocks. < 1308814707 958736 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Minecraft physical in this sense or a concept < 1308814711 331754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't strictly true. I could just be superimposed in Minecraft world, but then it corresponds less to the actual Minecraft world (which is also a concept) < 1308814713 566333 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Minecraft physical in this sense or a concept < 1308814716 920816 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the important question < 1308814722 501560 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so it's a concept < 1308814723 565171 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1308814728 961139 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is physical if it's literally identical to this universe < 1308814733 620713 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a concept otherwise < 1308814736 221209 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. < 1308814742 690194 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can only talk about physical things living in this universe < 1308814749 24092 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, great, that's totally a thing that makes no sense at all < 1308814754 882244 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can talk about anything you want. < 1308814778 717743 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally can't imagine referring to something physical living in a world that's exactly like the earth, but flattened out and repeated forever, with an infinitely high sky and an infinitely deep (tiled) underground < 1308814780 833871 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE < 1308814784 116552 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an abstract concept < 1308814785 226919 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just zeroes and ones < 1308814810 443211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed that Sgeo was talking about some actual species of life living on a CA, and the possibility that something could exist. Perhaps I misunderstood. < 1308814834 392452 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "something could exist" < 1308814897 673630 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, typo. s/something/they/ < 1308814920 870413 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to have some fun here... < 1308814925 888441 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Prove to me the universe exists. < 1308814931 822768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thanks. < 1308814940 139402 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: exist as in physically? < 1308814944 2565 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think you're just a concept! < 1308814952 24921 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, that's what I was thinking at the time. < 1308814955 198181 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: can you imagine simulating a CA on a computer and an intelligent species of life arising < 1308814963 278396 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(consider periodic injections of random blocks) < 1308814970 841888 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(timeframe irrelevant) < 1308814999 140027 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really think this is just a case of you not having a good enough imagination to imagine life existing in a CA. or you're just not applying it. i honestly cannot see what distinction you are trying to make between physical and abstract at all. < 1308815025 520880 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: He can't even prove there is such a thing as "physical". :) < 1308815039 467987 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a species in the typical sense, no. I can imagine intelligence emerging on a CA, and even being closed into a particular homeostatic pattern. < 1308815074 347123 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just don't want to get into epistemology :P < 1308815074 573053 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise species is just... a specific type of life < 1308815083 820116 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OE SHITE ITS NOT IDENTICAL TO EARTH LIFE IT CANT BE A SPECIES < 1308815086 449165 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously this is so stupid < 1308815125 246524 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just semantics, dude. I said it's not a typical species. < 1308815128 186956 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty true. < 1308815132 120399 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What I was trying to get you to realise is that your distinction presumes that there is such a thing as "physicalness", even though it is entirely possible that there is not. < 1308815132 410981 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is semantics < 1308815134 550325 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's atypical to what is typical to us. < 1308815142 771323 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: We could ourselves be in a simulation. < 1308815143 115571 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the one being a pedant about what a species is here < 1308815146 666563 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an unreasonable statement? < 1308815148 493707 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or someone's hallucination. < 1308815160 816868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, see, this is why I didn't want to get into that. :P < 1308815181 304558 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to pretend that this world is special in a way that an interesting cellular automaton is not is, well, utterly pointless. < 1308815186 323862 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ljferwzwgvhmsjox QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308815196 368365 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kdlfwkghudpvnlnp JOIN :#esoteric < 1308815221 740587 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, "I didn't want to be shown stupid"? < 1308815235 319543 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shut up both of you < 1308815243 711215 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I didn't. I simply misunderstood what Sgeo was saying. I was maintaining a distinction between unrelated concepts. In particular, "physical life" and "cellular automaton" < 1308815264 587196 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointless distinction. < 1308815270 409406 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: okay. < 1308815279 594681 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And quite plausibly not even well-founded. < 1308815290 140430 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: probably not. Since, after all, we can't know anything. < 1308815296 580025 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1308815302 364031 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, we can know lots of things. < 1308815304 863621 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please someone else say something < 1308815306 707711 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone < 1308815319 888987 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: feel like talkin'??? < 1308815324 751758 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hows about the good man here do you want to say words < 1308815327 284842 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone < 1308815344 888906 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Bird's the word. < 1308815351 222762 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said someone else < 1308815400 561069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really intend to start any sort of argument. < 1308815486 984656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, what I was originally talking about wasn't even remotely philosophical. < 1308815581 68984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1308815637 57823 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if you want to change subjects, we could always talk about the semantics of Perl. >:D >:D >:D >:D < 1308815743 224447 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am going to officially strike today from the log record it is too bad < 1308815766 997594 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308815786 132461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : i am going to officially strike today from the log record it is too bad < 1308815789 490540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1308815794 13719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks the log < 1308815794 406651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1308815806 563816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the log < 1308815820 644025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont < 1308815823 832601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why < 1308815827 583620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't < 1308815839 769703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, give me a good reason not to < 1308815857 569462 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I am talking a lot in it. < 1308815874 41081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, why, elliott doesn't hate you does he? < 1308815879 709809 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1308815882 460005 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1308815887 249547 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, ask him. < 1308815890 370011 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my place to say. < 1308815904 74568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't < 1308815905 451530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unrelatedly, see /msg < 1308815906 509329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it. < 1308816186 208362 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. RCA made a car record player. < 1308816214 595932 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only did 45s, but hey. < 1308816290 886658 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you have anything in your strife specibus at the moment? < 1308816358 149016 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a can of orange Fanta, which I will pretend is Faygo. < 1308816386 294451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend to be fictional characters in a webcomic irc event 2011 < 1308817344 205377 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-58.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308818119 960680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?info ShowS < 1308818120 538168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ShowS < 1308818122 814068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1308818125 511336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src ShowS < 1308818126 154163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type ShowS = String -> String < 1308818198 872468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl f (\s -> g (\t -> k (s.t))) < 1308818199 435172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (g . (k .) . (.)) < 1308818203 583866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl (\s -> g (\t -> k (s.t))) < 1308818204 80660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :g . (k .) . (.) < 1308818207 270193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl g (\t -> k (s.t)) < 1308818207 734625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :g (k . (s .)) < 1308818207 928612 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like someone else had the same idea I did < 1308818294 287372 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1308818358 45628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(%%) < 1308818358 196717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: (((b -> c) -> t1) -> t) < 1308818358 196920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> (((a -> b) -> t2) -> t1) < 1308818358 197032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> ((a -> c) -> t2) < 1308818358 197142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> t < 1308818374 51361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (((b -> c) -> t1) -> t) -> (((a -> b) -> t2) -> t1) -> ((a -> c) -> t2) -> t < 1308818374 808870 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1308818462 907082 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This does not.... look reversible < 1308818660 915588 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?djinn (((b -> c) -> t1) -> t) -> (((a -> b) -> t2) -> t1) -> ((a -> c) -> t2) -> t < 1308818661 147582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = a (\ d -> b (\ e -> c (\ f -> d (e f)))) < 1308818677 174630 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?. pl djinn (((b -> c) -> t1) -> t) -> (((a -> b) -> t2) -> t1) -> ((a -> c) -> t2) -> t < 1308818677 363411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = (. ((. ((. (.)) . (.))) . (.))) . (.) < 1308818693 89745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hahaha, WOW < 1308818697 761119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's beautiful < 1308818852 762899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: unfortunately i'm having trouble simplifying the type down < 1308818856 771821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(making it less general) < 1308818984 181153 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES IT EVEN MAKE SENSE FOR A UNIVERSE OPERATING BY REVERSIBLE RULES THAT WAS ACTIVE TO BECOME STATIC < 1308819007 417330 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to assume that either I installed this rule improperly, or the person who made it is an idiot < 1308819011 343521 :adamfyre!~puma@247.sub-174-253-211.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308819034 300096 :adamfyre!~puma@247.sub-174-253-211.myvzw.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1308819141 609764 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1308819725 193919 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1308819934 331009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Data.Format> format (str "List:" %% each (str " " %% showable)) [9,0,9] < 1308819934 561667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"List: 9 0 9" < 1308819935 20093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1308820062 432108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src intercalate < 1308820062 910410 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercalate xs xss = concat (intersperse xs xss) < 1308820192 958893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x r -> f (. r) x < 1308820193 616716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (f . flip (.)) < 1308820307 107214 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-185-248.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1308820794 351809 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1308820997 291692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1308821032 529440 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1308821053 186362 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=18eLRRmojIXEU36uad7lW7XwRRGEKFvjiYV6pS3-UF-4 well, this is intuitive as mud. < 1308821066 50786 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, _i_ thought it was obvious < 1308821072 446293 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1308821169 738971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: later on: discover that sgeo thought reversibility = time symmetry < 1308821265 190077 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? well all CAs are time symmetric. < 1308821279 718982 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the symmetry of adding one tick, anyway) < 1308821295 935267 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : therefore, the universe is not reversible < 1308821306 950972 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO NOT THINK THIS IS GENERALLY AGREED UPON < 1308821512 141258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that too :) < 1308821530 116444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel seems to constantly see us authoritatively stating absolute bullshit. :D < 1308821704 27972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i am having typeclass problems :( < 1308821746 882461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :typical < 1308821781 705286 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well just rejoice in the fact ghc now allows equations in superclass contexts, maybe that solves your problem < 1308821833 354711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i saw that :) < 1308821836 819920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but no, no it does not < 1308821847 475832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a problem with a too-polymorphic instance not getting recognised, I think < 1308821856 535946 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308821857 845146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's saying "no instance for (more specific thing despite me having a more general instance)" < 1308821861 585677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is where flexibleinstances leads :( < 1308821867 773790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst thing is, I seem to _recall_ this working prior < 1308821875 89797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I do differently... < 1308821875 720573 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1308821901 905366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual sympathy :O < 1308821903 81934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1308821985 907203 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No one in this channel ever authoritatively states absolute bullshit. < 1308821997 230877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You're funny. < 1308822002 161068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :O H S N A P < 1308822043 471650 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear what would happen if elliott and I were to meet < 1308822054 891113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloodshed < 1308822066 991615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after you start defending C++ < 1308822067 358907 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some explosion involving gamma rays < 1308822077 38963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't specify the kind of bloodshed < 1308822082 137730 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, you're free to attack C++ < 1308822091 191401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah, but you're not free to defend it < 1308822105 312505 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I'll defend to the death your right to.. wait < 1308822124 120765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahaha < 1308822198 262222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now i wonder if you're sympathetic enough to try and _fix_ it... < 1308822201 421455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i fixed my space leak :D < 1308822224 678584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was that i was binding the zip, rather than zipping it all at once and _then_ binding < 1308822279 344603 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I C < 1308822285 24691 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you writing? < 1308822300 198492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: two different things < 1308822320 847972 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they? < 1308822321 781376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The space leak was in my work-in-progress wc.hs, which is an attempt to write a wc that has feature-parity with GNU wc and is much, much faster < 1308822344 262174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I already have something that does the basic byte-only wc quite a bit faster than GNU wc with multibyte disabled) < 1308822360 11709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It fails a bit at word-counting, but what it does instead is as expensive, so it's a fair win :)) < 1308822369 59889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :While also being readable and clean < 1308822376 18660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I'm succeeding excellently < 1308822487 772335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Format (Formatter r0 (a1 -> r0)) String a0) < 1308822487 960659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `format' < 1308822490 154245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OJFDOIJGOGDOFJG < 1308822539 285322 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo dawg i heard you like to format < 1308822616 256832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is me attempting to generalise my (stolen the idea from somewhere -- I forget where) type-safe formatting combinators to something hackageable < 1308822620 73893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., type-safe printf < 1308822631 553441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you recommend iteratee for regex processing? < 1308822668 81951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i.e. format ("Elements: " %% str %% eachJoin ", " str) ["a", "b", "c"] < 1308822675 567040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what? < 1308822768 436062 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would help me write a regex interpreter/compiler in Haskell? < 1308822781 245780 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from Parsec... < 1308823318 825676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/f12c043e1 meanwhile, some ocaml code i wrote in early 2009 < 1308823910 905212 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308824027 179306 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In February 2011, Cage claimed to have created a new method of acting he calls Nouveau Shamanic. He claims to have used the acting style throughout his career and one day plans to write a book about the method.[citation needed] < 1308824065 887539 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :vandalism? or hilarious reality? < 1308824073 816202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it's the latter. < 1308824148 646830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling suggests it used to be cited < 1308824151 160002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably with a bad citation < 1308824316 560887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm such a Homestuck fanboy that I might buy a godhoodie.. < 1308824343 884775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, um, the fanboy thing wears off a little after a week or so. < 1308824359 159428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have bought the hero of breath hoodie if it had the stupidly long hood :) < 1308824385 201855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that would be silly.. < 1308824445 665020 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it would be awesome, but I would get strange looks when walking around in public. < 1308824470 218934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't anyway? < 1308824473 312398 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it would probably be way more expensive. < 1308824480 187610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already expensive :D < 1308824480 338494 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. :P < 1308824494 137664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, then i diagnose you with boring normal person disorder < 1308824527 804589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I'm just incognito. < 1308824567 394669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I fail pretty well at that actually. < 1308824579 905494 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I do get weird looks? I'm not sure actually. < 1308824593 962341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make it certain by making your own ridiculous godhood < 1308824614 596089 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy Turing day! \o/ < 1308824614 858019 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                  ¦ < 1308824615 130319 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 ´¸¨ < 1308824637 209924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fag < 1308824640 448430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaa c wut i did thar < 1308824643 147009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im so funny and edgy < 1308824650 391172 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edgy is for hipsters < 1308824651 652029 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hipster < 1308824659 983755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwhatevver < 1308824880 627729 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Cont < 1308824881 641142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Cont' < 1308824890 530844 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Monad.Cont < 1308824891 600553 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Control.Monad.Cont' < 1308824896 478537 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runCont < 1308824897 506294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall r a. Cont r a -> (a -> r) -> r < 1308824941 157255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah yeah < 1308824954 510687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tempting only in that it could make (f %% g) k = f $ \s -> g $ \t -> k (s . t) < 1308824954 661427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :less ugly < 1308825129 385554 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let (f %% g) k = f $ \s -> g $ \t -> k (s . t) in (%%) < 1308825130 455703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b b1 b2 (f :: * -> *) t. (Functor f) => (((a -> b) -> b1) -> b2) -> ((f a -> t) -> b1) -> (f b -> t) -> b2 < 1308825140 799757 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1308825146 107315 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let (f %% g) k = f $ \s -> g $ \t -> k (s Prelude.. t) in (%%) < 1308825147 164518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c b1 b2 a t. (((b -> c) -> b1) -> b2) -> (((a -> b) -> t) -> b1) -> ((a -> c) -> t) -> b2 < 1308825171 81391 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe too much switching of the final type < 1308825198 215837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh? < 1308825219 223853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?mtl (ShowS -> r) -> a < 1308825219 837655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: ft map msg pl unmtl url < 1308825224 496412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1308825372 766686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: overloadedstrings or TYPECLASS???/// < 1308825461 112585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:26:16: kerlo: i hear "assume a spherical cow" is well-known <-- spherical copy on write? < 1308825461 356589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:26:17: wth < 1308825593 210291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:11:06: sprintf has one of those stupid collapsing '_a types < 1308825593 455981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:11:12: value restriction? < 1308825593 606877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:11:33: yeah what is that thing < 1308825594 638810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1308825714 460027 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH I WAS RIGHT < 1308825725 696227 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you are saying it's working now? < 1308825782 601591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm saying it's not ocaml any more :D < 1308825786 789470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:25:05: snot a very good name < 1308825786 940408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:25:21: i shall have you hear from my lawyer! < 1308825786 940595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1308825829 932674 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i get the money to pay him, anyway < 1308825831 606325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:04:40: we should genetically modify humans to just breed breed breed < 1308825831 840752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:04:43: and get infinite humans < 1308825831 991720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:04:45: ehird: no we shouldn't < 1308825838 350799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good advice hour with ais523 < 1308825997 711638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, heh, i originally did this in oh-eight < 1308826072 965684 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://caml.inria.fr/pub/papers/garrigue-value_restriction-fiwflp04.pdf might be relevant. annoyingly it doesn't have a proper date... < 1308826121 535489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:57:56: (%) (FormatterInt f) (FormatterInt g) = < 1308826121 775017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:57:57: FormatterInt (\k r -> f (g k) r) < 1308826121 925939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what... < 1308826331 629179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:18: i don't play any games more violent than FreeCiv < 1308826331 819509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:36: I don't play any game more violent than Postal 2. < 1308826331 819695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:46: But only because I haven't found any so far. < 1308826552 660587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308826581 200612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1308826891 350894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse is O(n) in Haskell right? < 1308826896 839853 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for [a] < 1308826912 2974 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1308826932 650550 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm okay. < 1308826958 932457 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to decide what data structure to use for a look-back buffer in a regex interpreter. < 1308826963 331330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipper < 1308826964 643916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :always zippers < 1308826976 275507 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so zippy < 1308827039 443107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not deduce (r ~ (s -> s)) < 1308827039 594101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : from the context (Monoid s) < 1308827040 386014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crying < 1308827046 32106 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would work. < 1308827149 976682 :Tritonio_GR!~TrT@188.4.6.112.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1308827167 854023 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to have infinite look-back somehow/ < 1308827228 547387 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easy if look-back patterns were in reverse. Because then I could just construct a reverse list of previous characters. < 1308827248 506808 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sounds silly.. < 1308827313 947628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I could execute the look-back pattern in reverse on a reversed buffer.. < 1308827425 900026 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that would be extremely complicated. < 1308827633 452820 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think infinite-lookback is just going to be complicated, and I'll worry about it later. < 1308827761 930677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: gah, why do flexible instances simply never work? < 1308827764 500076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance IsString (Formatter r r) where < 1308827770 538656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Text.Format> format "a" < 1308827770 689631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:8: < 1308827770 689832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (IsString (Formatter String a0)) < 1308827783 882423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so stupid :( < 1308827786 922519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :format "a" :: IsString (Formatter String a) => a < 1308827982 870208 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well does format "a" :: String work? < 1308828038 875265 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1308828046 760333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm, it does < 1308828054 442588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1308828056 64017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: Int -> Int -> String < 1308828056 215258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = format (showable % " " % showable) < 1308828056 858247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't < 1308828058 294861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it useless < 1308828061 566632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text/Format.hs:29:26: < 1308828061 717729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (IsString < 1308828061 717923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Formatter (a0 -> String) (Int -> String))) < 1308828126 677705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically it cannot deduce what a0 is < 1308828227 523137 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other behavior are you going for besides simply interpolating the string produced by show? < 1308828281 959041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used printf < 1308828300 129056 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-15-133.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have always wanted to < 1308828306 462072 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-15-133.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it never came to it < 1308828323 41222 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-15-133.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :years later, i am still sad about the fact that i hadn't taken the chance < 1308828334 43054 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: number formatting, padding, etc? < 1308828337 139232 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-15-133.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one of the big failures of my life. < 1308828344 115243 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you just use functions for those? < 1308828361 779107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what do you think i am doing < 1308828366 720708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, (++) is slow < 1308828427 945456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you get around not using ++? < 1308828478 169002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see shows < 1308828492 961016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?type shows < 1308828494 57116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Show a) => a -> String -> String < 1308828495 350046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src ShowS < 1308828495 840735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type ShowS = String -> String < 1308828505 593812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (shows 9 . shows 0) "" < 1308828509 719661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1308828511 343194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (shows 9 . shows 0) "" < 1308828513 700889 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "90" < 1308828555 857238 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, fancy. < 1308828606 806162 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (shows 9 . shows 0) "a" < 1308828608 669800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "90a" < 1308828659 839202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still a concatenation though. < 1308828680 319314 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (shows 900000000000000 . shows True) "" < 1308828682 389011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "900000000000000True" < 1308828756 608096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it is not a (++) < 1308828816 989870 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's magic? < 1308828844 783975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1308828968 263070 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1308828977 448607 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it has much better complexity, because you aren't _nesting_ ++ 's < 1308829045 861932 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and especially not in the left argument < 1308829056 933808 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Think about left vs right associative ++ < 1308829144 608745 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is linear in the length of the result, the other quadratic < 1308829222 227473 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl' (++) $ replicate 1000 "a" < 1308829223 314441 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show < 1308829223 465354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([[[GH... < 1308829227 84282 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1308829232 222217 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl' (++) "" $ replicate 1000 "a" < 1308829234 77423 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... < 1308829237 17371 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1308829244 891517 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl' (++) "" $ replicate 100000 "a" < 1308829249 87707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1308829256 224785 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (++) "" $ replicate 100000 "a" < 1308829258 163672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... < 1308829286 475707 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> legnth $ foldl' (++) "" $ replicate 100000 "a" < 1308829287 474477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `legnth' < 1308829291 189935 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ foldl' (++) "" $ replicate 100000 "a" < 1308829295 356909 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1308829300 875350 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that one's lazier, too :-P < 1308829303 19422 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but how does shows work faster than right-associative ++? < 1308829303 172961 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ foldr (++) "" $ replicate 100000 "a" < 1308829305 81331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100000 < 1308829351 508215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK MONAD TRANSFORMERS THEY DO AWAY WITH MY SOCKAGES < 1308829381 246979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YOU'RE A CARPAL TUNNEL < 1308829388 603492 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1308829406 28802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :REAAAAAAAAAAAERARGAHERGHJRGHGH < 1308829428 485523 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It doesn't, it's just that typical incremental uses end up being left-associative unless you use something like ShowS < 1308829442 239177 :Tritonio!~TrT@188.4.6.112.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1308829460 439945 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see. < 1308829475 69194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he;lp i got lost in okmij.org < 1308829478 651363 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something like shows, without the application of show? < 1308829489 401848 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you're only working with strings and don't want the double quotes. < 1308829491 366833 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has now left us for the type system < 1308829505 523934 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Data.DList < 1308829528 285056 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um (++) is perfectly fine for prepending a single string :P < 1308829547 490331 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the answer is (++), really < 1308829553 396759 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlist on Hackage IIRC < 1308829565 827976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: its like space < 1308829572 429298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : is there something like shows, without the application of show? < 1308829577 366059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shows does not apply show < 1308829586 155669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :show applies shows < 1308829587 986299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait what < 1308829593 291555 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> shows 9 "what?" < 1308829594 230698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "9what?" < 1308829604 746092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src show < 1308829605 422112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :show x = shows x "" < 1308829613 493339 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are defaults both ways, actually. < 1308829617 53552 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay fine, you know what I meant though. < 1308829617 436131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1308829622 347515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but in _good_ usage :D < 1308829628 997308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for a show instance that isn't just constant strings, etc.) < 1308829641 333400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reads < 1308829642 550252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Read a) => String -> [(a, String)] < 1308829654 563465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, DList sucks :( < 1308829657 626579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: only supports [a] collections < 1308829666 411952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna use it but I need ByteString, Text, etc. support too < 1308829773 414570 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so reads and shows are not really analogous. < 1308829776 816560 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Read is inefficient, iirc. ghc defines some extra methods in the class to rectify this, i think < 1308829793 780964 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Read < 1308829794 216533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Read a where < 1308829794 394716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : readsPrec :: Int -> ReadS a < 1308829794 545514 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : readList :: ReadS [a] < 1308829794 545699 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : readPrec :: ReadPrec a < 1308829794 545807 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : readListPrec :: ReadPrec [a] < 1308829794 696395 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and your modern Haskell < 1308829812 120917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have you down as a very modern person < 1308829825 495918 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that includes the extra methods < 1308829827 433978 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use [a] like God intended < 1308829848 257447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's mostly for HIGH-QUALITY purposes :) < 1308829858 97576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Hackage packages must satisfy the Pokémon Theme Song requirement. < 1308829882 657636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM EVEN WONDERING HOW I CAN CALCULATE ESTIMATED LENGTHS TO PREALLOCATE A BYTESTRING < 1308829906 177275 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with numbers, probably. < 1308829935 16898 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a computer would help too. < 1308829957 59452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "I decided to make it because I noted that much of the time of Coadjute was spent doing naïve list operations on sets of strings." You should have just used lists < 1308829965 771552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION DEDICATED TROLLER < 1308830022 448799 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if Richard Stallman joined this channel right now? What would you do? < 1308830032 660528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoy him until he goes away < 1308830093 20881 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guido Von Rossum? Larry Wall? ? Same protocol? < 1308830111 184988 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they had some awesome esolang ideas? < 1308830111 335710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GvR is an idiot, so same < 1308830127 63045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Larry Wall is a Christian missionary, so I'm legally obligated to annoy him on at least a daily basis even if I let him stay < 1308830251 317711 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1308830620 354945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi can you get oleg on the phone i need his help < 1308830715 814656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is urgent < 1308830721 277625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the type system has failed < 1308830765 815059 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308830806 366753 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1308830828 181786 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-58.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308830868 352399 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1308830883 317998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:59:17: ais523: why are you being such a spoilsport today? You're usually all over puzzles and the like < 1308830889 233092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais gets so many people complaining about him :D < 1308831298 839396 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_One_Infinity < 1308831304 900371 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so silly why does it even have a stupid name. < 1308831391 605599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an actual criticism < 1308831419 630966 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a waste of nomenclature. < 1308831429 270478 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no reason for that to even be a name for something. < 1308831442 245459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else do you want to call "zero one infinity" < 1308831453 162053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing. it doesn't need a name. < 1308831470 296042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok do you have an actual argument for that, there is pretty lively discussion on http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeroOneInfinityRule after all and it's a decent rule of thumb < 1308831479 598359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you just not like its existence, should we never talk about it, would you like it to be taboo < 1308831530 983321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't see how it ever became a rule of thumb. I think it is more or less implied now... < 1308831548 35927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? please point me to a program with no arbitrary limits < 1308831548 344802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I didn't even think there was a name for it, but I knew this was a good thing to do regardless. < 1308831553 230341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-trivial one < 1308831581 912375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, we have names for things that should be assumed. < 1308831588 147918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "not being a gigantic raging asshole". < 1308831599 894649 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no program has no limits. I mean "if you are going to allow multiple elements, then allow an arbitrary number" < 1308831649 163223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean no program has no limits? < 1308831652 635522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is far from assumed < 1308831664 228000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of people will cap something at six five five three six if they don't think anyone will need more than that < 1308831667 857617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves dynamic allocation code < 1308831680 368725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway < 1308831680 840600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you are going to allow multiple elements, then allow an arbitrary number" < 1308831682 679697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"zero one infinity" < 1308831685 258153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder which one i would rather say < 1308831696 524610 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh. forget it. < 1308831726 92043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm open to being convinced if you have any actual arguments for why it shouldn't be a term, or evidence that it is, in fact, widely assumed < 1308831768 288286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. not everything is a fucking debate. It was a comment, about something that seemed to be yet another unnecessary software design term. < 1308831777 816468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am done. < 1308831802 509963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made no debate, it's just that you keep saying really stupid things that seem to be asking for a response in the form of agreement or whatever. < 1308831811 777623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i not reply to any of your messages < 1308831947 787397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a serious question < 1308832047 983413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just dislike having to painstakingly back up everything I say with detailed evidence for why it is reasonable for me to like/dislike something, when all I am doing is simply commenting on the fact, whether you agree or disagree. < 1308832097 401975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't say "this term seems silly to me", you just said "this is so silly why does it even have a stupid name". either way, if you're saying it on an irc channel, presumably you want some kind of response, or you'd just cat it into /dev/null. < 1308832101 799588 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: idea, would instance (r ~ s) => IsString (Formatter r s) work better? < 1308832121 302385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i apologise for disagreeing with your statement. < 1308832127 984424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll try that < 1308832139 775846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I would still prefer a Formatter solution, so I'll try adapting that to that first < 1308832166 189149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nice, undecidableinsatnces time < 1308832183 928972 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1308832196 783457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, still the same problem, I will try with IsString < 1308832241 825480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow it works < 1308832246 745920 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo! < 1308832435 391057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: dcc? wtf? < 1308832438 85986 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you ready? < 1308832440 867271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1308832449 18404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that, i instinctively rejected < 1308832477 756952 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just needed to exceed some character limits for a moment in a /msg < 1308832493 48636 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that a different protocol? I can't remember. < 1308832496 823964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is different < 1308832500 52222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't see the message < 1308832551 663508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t arr < 1308832552 807953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c (a :: * -> * -> *). (Arrow a) => (b -> c) -> a b c < 1308832559 440648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: darn < 1308832565 512416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Formatter _almost_ looks like an arrow < 1308832568 189589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait, it is a Category < 1308832572 856713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(%) :: Formatter a b -> Formatter c a -> Formatter c b < 1308832573 599632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1308832597 521049 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I believe if you accept I should be able to bombard you with massive amounts of text.. < 1308832600 999298 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that point. < 1308832607 468030 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what egobot does right? < 1308832608 263420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i already rejected, so you'd need to try again < 1308832624 14177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accepted < 1308832648 699613 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<<<) < 1308832649 612392 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (cat :: * -> * -> *) b c a. (Control.Category.Category cat) => cat b c -> cat a b -> cat a c < 1308832914 325076 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-15-133.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1308833043 305802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: < 1308833045 618026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: (Show a) => [a] -> String < 1308833045 768966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = format ("List length: " % int <-- length %& "; elements: " % each showable) < 1308833095 443237 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1308833141 870847 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does each put in a delimiter? < 1308833145 734429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- is just "map the formatter over a function"; %& means "repeat the formatting value I just used as the next one" < 1308833159 403121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, I plan an eachJoin that takes a zero-argument formatter to go in-between < 1308833165 849580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would say eachJoin " " showable < 1308833170 192559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe it should just be called each < 1308833184 52603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the types are quite pretty < 1308833185 89852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(%&) :: Format a (b -> c) -> Format c (b -> a) -> Format c (b -> c) < 1308833194 951912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle cat a (b -> c) -> cat c (b -> a) -> cat c (b -> c) < 1308833195 546936 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1308833203 651061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1308833303 702860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \k -> k (mappend s) < 1308833304 253564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :($ mappend s) < 1308833349 992458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I am worried that I'm going to need a typeclass for pretty much every formatter if I support non-string types < 1308833376 495842 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1308833410 935502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (IsString s, Monoid s, r ~ a) => IsString (Format s r a) where < 1308833417 591012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised _that_ works fine! < 1308833443 934797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm kind of thinking that I really want "higher-order" formatters < 1308833453 886513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so that each actually is a formatter that returns a /list/ < 1308833457 521363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of whatever the formatter it's given does < 1308833460 790017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you say < 1308833463 645824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join " " (each showable) < 1308833551 237148 :Tritonio!~TrT@188.4.6.112.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1308833657 714695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, id is really hard to write :D < 1308833676 783626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU SAY SO < 1308833677 336608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((s -> s) -> r) -> r < 1308833677 849974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1308833678 882497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1308833780 507517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g k x -> f (\s -> g (\t -> k (s . t)) x) x < 1308833781 241363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip id . ((flip . (ap .)) .) . (. ((flip .) . (. ((. (.)) . (.))) . (.))) . (.) . (.) < 1308833786 153754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: beautiful < 1308833799 453912 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :flipping crazy < 1308833849 527863 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.... I need to study up on Haskell. a lot. < 1308833869 776500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1308833875 473994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all in the dots < 1308833884 214959 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :point-free style is so elegant. < 1308833901 785590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep i just replaced my code with flip flip id . ((flip . (ap .)) .) . (. ((flip .) . (. ((. (.)) . (.))) . (.))) . (.) . (.) < 1308833911 928806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best is definitely < 1308833932 416853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g k -> f (\s -> g (\t -> k (s . t)))) < 1308833933 103047 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 40): < 1308833933 283188 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected ")" < 1308833933 434208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or end of input < 1308833934 144100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g k -> f (\s -> g (\t -> k (s . t))) < 1308833934 904513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. ((. ((. (.)) . (.))) . (.))) . (.) < 1308833938 773250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. ((. ((. (.)) . (.))) . (.))) . (.). < 1308833939 252250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1308834004 246695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :amorphous nipple blob. < 1308834040 323688 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do those dots even do? < 1308834041 307956 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1308834046 37847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :function composition < 1308834115 422680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: each :: Format s (DL s) (a -> DL s) -> Format [s] r ([a] -> r) < 1308834116 570109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1308834143 637696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DL s is s -> s) < 1308834148 909770 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sleep and die while exists time < 1308834150 955958 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :exists argument is not a HASH or ARRAY element or a subroutine at /tmp/input.26055 line 1. < 1308834206 309669 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: O KAY < 1308834225 161692 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently time does not count as a subroutine name. < 1308834274 131161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sleep for defined time < 1308834283 863166 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no need to die, I guess. good night. < 1308834316 884395 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, wtf does that do? < 1308834317 338054 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1308834346 471255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \k xs -> k (mappend (map (format f) xs) < 1308834346 968929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 40): < 1308834347 147468 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected end of input < 1308834347 298637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or ")" < 1308834347 449603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \k xs -> k (mappend (map (format f) xs)) < 1308834348 38579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. (mappend . map (format f))) < 1308834354 945660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1308834364 915007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \xs -> k (mappend (map (format f) xs)) < 1308834365 296919 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :k . mappend . map (format f) < 1308834388 985828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :each showable :: Show a => Format [String] r ([a] -> r) < 1308834391 568956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1308834418 728252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1308834424 402516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1308834454 977710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1308834468 627626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((s -> s) -> s) -> s < 1308834471 209329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1308834516 745507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src intercalate < 1308834517 442272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercalate xs xss = concat (intersperse xs xss) < 1308834518 449380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src intersperse < 1308834518 883154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intersperse _ [] = [] < 1308834519 50585 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intersperse _ [x] = [x] < 1308834519 201669 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intersperse sep (x:xs) = x : sep : intersperse sep xs < 1308834523 552117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle intersperse < 1308834524 246362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString intersperse :: Word8 -> ByteString -> ByteString < 1308834524 397396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List intersperse :: a -> [a] -> [a] < 1308834524 397476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 intersperse :: Char -> ByteString -> ByteString < 1308834588 993475 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl ((a + b) / c) * ((d * e) + f) < 1308834589 523490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a + b) / c * (d * e + f) < 1308834595 829779 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1308834613 728710 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b c d e f -> ((a + b) / c) * ((d * e) + f) < 1308834614 368773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip (((+) .) . (*)) . ((flip . (((.) . (.) . (.) . (*)) .) . (/)) .) . (+) < 1308834651 64208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Text.Format> foo [0, 990, 0] < 1308834651 215274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"List length: 3; elements: 0, 990, 0." < 1308834696 180388 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b -> [a..b] < 1308834696 772419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enumFromTo < 1308834700 7078 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1308834708 300153 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does ?pl work? < 1308834803 349081 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1308834891 732367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: see the code :P < 1308835363 339031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like the other commenters who pointed out, this does not mean the passwords are stored in plain-text. we can only presume that they are encrypted with something like an MD5 algorithm (which is reversible)." < 1308835404 710713 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link? < 1308835563 212593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1308835569 624946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you ant a link to an idiot < 1308835676 143681 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see what they're talking about. < 1308835770 246187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1308835772 343917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nottetris is perfect < 1308835845 364318 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, besides, MD5 is reversible with enough computing power. < 1308835854 206615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isnt < 1308835858 838435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are infinite inputs for a single mdfive output < 1308835912 958992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok that kind of counts as reversible < 1308835915 55038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in the way they meant < 1308836029 278453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: but seriously go play nottetris right now < 1308836112 139044 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-204-101.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308836437 59385 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308836644 664872 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78.69.168.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308838699 804846 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308838781 646986 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229098031.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308838784 602391 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78.69.168.43 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308838823 581551 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1308838941 558722 :cheater_!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-204-101.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1308838957 994936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's oerjan when you need him < 1308839113 418880 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308839268 309650 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1308839542 414889 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229098031.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308839733 762252 :TOGoS!~Stevens@h69-128-42-2.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net PART :#esoteric < 1308840319 532494 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229098031.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308840718 439622 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1308840788 449491 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308840788 791514 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.69 QUIT :Changing host < 1308840788 940392 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1308840951 572332 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan NICK :Rimii < 1308840960 588994 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308841023 699567 :Rimii!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan NICK :Lymee < 1308841135 439075 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229098031.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308841251 848394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a snake isn't actually a list of positions, it's a list of turtle instructions < 1308841286 726859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...plus a starting position < 1308841405 407588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src scanr < 1308841405 905463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanr _ q0 [] = [q0] < 1308841406 77091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanr f q0 (x:xs) = f x q : qs < 1308841406 225977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : where qs@(q:_) = scanr f q0 xs < 1308841412 425410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanr < 1308841413 831858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> [b] < 1308841868 830325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> snakePositions initialSnake < 1308841869 68798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromListA [(1,2),(0,3),(2,2)] < 1308841872 136320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :snake doesnt work like that < 1308841877 584844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I need scanl < 1308841883 871636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanl < 1308841885 95445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a] < 1308841886 254448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src scanl < 1308841886 715470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of < 1308841886 882634 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> [] < 1308841887 31455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs < 1308841901 510650 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src map < 1308841902 43644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map _ [] = [] < 1308841902 192261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f (x:xs) = f x : map f xs < 1308841912 847928 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl map f (x:xs) = f x : map f xs < 1308841913 522376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map = fix (flip flip tail . (ap .) . flip flip head . ((.) .) . liftM2 flip (((.) . (:)) .)) < 1308841915 286353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanl < 1308841916 401265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a] < 1308841917 138372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src scanl < 1308841917 597445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src scanl < 1308841917 831260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of < 1308841917 980134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> [] < 1308841917 980365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs < 1308841918 129074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src scanl < 1308841918 277877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of < 1308841918 426676 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> [] < 1308841920 346214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs < 1308841922 522741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of < 1308841924 457149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> [] < 1308841926 643695 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs < 1308842001 939135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1308842043 631579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr move (0,0) ['r','d','d','d'] where move 'u'(x,y)=(x,pred y);move 'd'(x,y) = (x,succ y); move 'l'(x,y) = (pred x,y); move 'r'(x,y) = (succ x,y) < 1308842044 756856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `where' < 1308842053 278800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let move 'u'(x,y)=(x,pred y);move 'd'(x,y) = (x,succ y); move 'l'(x,y) = (pred x,y); move 'r'(x,y) = (succ x,y) in foldr move (0,0) ['r','d','d','d'] < 1308842054 328572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1,3) < 1308842058 256130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let move 'u'(x,y)=(x,pred y);move 'd'(x,y) = (x,succ y); move 'l'(x,y) = (pred x,y); move 'r'(x,y) = (succ x,y) in scanr move (0,0) ['r','d','d','d'] < 1308842059 422810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,3),(0,3),(0,2),(0,1),(0,0)] < 1308842065 227806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1308842067 968895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let move 'u'(x,y)=(x,pred y);move 'd'(x,y) = (x,succ y); move 'l'(x,y) = (pred x,y); move 'r'(x,y) = (succ x,y) in scanl move (0,0) ['r','d','d','d'] < 1308842069 275127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1308842069 424596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1308842075 192114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let move 'u'(x,y)=(x,pred y);move 'd'(x,y) = (x,succ y); move 'l'(x,y) = (pred x,y); move 'r'(x,y) = (succ x,y) in scanl (flip move) (0,0) ['r','d','d','d'] < 1308842077 161956 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(0,0),(1,0),(1,1),(1,2),(1,3)] < 1308842081 583391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1308842082 974262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src scanl < 1308842083 421128 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of < 1308842083 604448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> [] < 1308842083 753274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs < 1308842088 853171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t scanl < 1308842089 939209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a] < 1308842553 877411 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-234-18.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1308843098 110650 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-166.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308843230 22278 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl let move 'u'(x,y)=(x,pred y);move 'd'(x,y) = (x,succ y); move 'l'(x,y) = (pred x,y); move 'r'(x,y) = (succ x,y) in scanl (flip move) (0,0) ['r','d','d','d'] < 1308843230 690746 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 10): < 1308843230 839653 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "'" < 1308843230 839851 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting pattern or "=" < 1308843234 556522 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1308843241 218287 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to see how it would mutilate your code. < 1308843563 71552 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308843563 261597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308843865 273984 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308843919 656224 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1308843927 65336 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1308844163 445587 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1308844199 690435 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i knew what this data structure was called < 1308844212 880892 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308844219 441891 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think its called accordion :( < 1308844400 230942 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B14C69F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308844867 161616 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy do you know the name of this < 1308844900 34809 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1308844994 495494 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308845069 309630 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose a standard unit of Bullshit. < 1308845073 434969 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the "English" < 1308845081 222852 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under this standard, PHP would be "50E" < 1308845139 261302 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is a description of the data structure in the logs < 1308845152 607725 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Accordion a = End | Leaf a | Join a (Accordion a) a < 1308845153 729323 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is now < 1308845173 184354 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1308845178 160795 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/cBHJ < 1308845183 66622 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that just a linked list? < 1308845198 430646 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1308845202 312982 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look carefully at the last one < 1308845215 875522 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1308845221 67631 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think it may be related to Data.Sequence but i'm not sure < 1308845227 942105 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1308845236 360456 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1308845239 296693 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it. < 1308845249 77904 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my glance it's a linked list of (a, a) but can end either in noting an end or an a < 1308845253 617750 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1308845259 681390 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the a on the right is at the _end_ < 1308845260 632578 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noting an end/nothing < 1308845266 337360 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can access the first and last elements immediately < 1308845270 138907 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1308845272 669799 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :second and second-last by descending one < 1308845272 992304 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1308845276 740471 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what are these for? < 1308845283 248195 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: representing a snake < 1308845295 875174 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1308845315 559425 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Snake = Snake Direction Position (Accordion Direction) deriving (Show) < 1308845351 49906 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1308845402 907873 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, i could do it zipper style ... nah < 1308845409 746999 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but maybe < 1308845555 12738 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why do you need the reversed list to represent a snake? < 1308845629 610637 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: because i both tail and append on it < 1308845812 798828 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't any sort of appending mess up one of your lists < 1308845817 260960 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to leave now < 1308845892 177261 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it's all perfect < 1308846596 629043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if programs compiled with LLVM can be linked with programs compiled with GCC? < 1308847205 545399 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1308847273 514701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308847752 711997 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308848053 730870 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308848053 941678 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308848294 751733 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308848329 843410 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308848800 834583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1308848858 432928 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi it is broken < 1308849137 569283 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-185-248.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1308849149 940100 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308849388 639609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source scanl < 1308849388 971267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl not available < 1308849393 542870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source scan < 1308849394 52666 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scan not available < 1308849399 695581 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src scanl < 1308849400 343943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of < 1308849400 493016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> [] < 1308849400 493169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs < 1308849691 400361 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src show < 1308849691 907985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :show x = shows x "" < 1308849713 37193 :choochter!~choochter@host81-146-28-169.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308849738 151986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee, show will eventually just use a typeclass function, so you're not going to get anything useful that way. < 1308849738 643474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1308849748 608036 :choochter!~choochter@host81-146-28-169.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308849904 166080 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308850035 731682 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1308850076 396995 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-166.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1308852796 988747 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Square root of zero. Good luck with that." < 1308852830 181187 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/geek/comments/i74yk/bob_sends_a_message_to_alice/c21ful3 < 1308853011 642099 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1308854419 714961 :choochter!~choochter@host81-146-28-169.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1308854862 655409 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom/lymee: you can show the source for a class. < 1308854865 694053 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1308854898 576571 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1308854906 550432 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Accordion a = End | Leaf a | Join a (Accordion a) a < 1308854906 713214 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called < 1308854909 49040 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's similar to Se < 1308854909 466247 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1308854914 268418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the definition of Seq looks different < 1308854925 33698 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1308854952 498651 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can only add the same number to the beginning and end... < 1308854961 843524 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1308854975 236013 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true at all; it's isomorphic to [a] < 1308854980 302020 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks a little like a finger tree < 1308854984 839970 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that is essentially just ([(a,a)],a) < 1308854987 538661 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1308854989 213489 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: Seq is based on finger trees, so... < 1308854994 859004 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: note that the a at the end is at the _end_ < 1308855001 852103 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of a weird space-time accordion < 1308855004 635809 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :start and end are big < 1308855007 95444 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :second and second-last are smaller < 1308855007 480131 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1308855013 373947 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until the middle is really small < 1308855026 77052 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons and snoc are O(n), though :) < 1308855026 225831 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um my point is you have no way to remove the first without removing the last simultaneously, efficiently < 1308855030 551097 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, right < 1308855037 872698 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah -- < 1308855039 390203 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leftA :: Accordion a -> Maybe (a, Accordion a) < 1308855039 539152 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leftA End = Nothing < 1308855039 539350 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leftA (Leaf a) = Just (a, End) < 1308855039 539464 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leftA (Join a xs b) = Just (a, xs `addA` b) < 1308855040 903411 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rightA :: Accordion a -> Maybe (Accordion a, a) < 1308855042 876596 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rightA End = Nothing < 1308855045 12579 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rightA (Leaf a) = Just (End, a) < 1308855046 914828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rightA (Join a xs b) = Just (a `joinA` xs, b) < 1308855048 798038 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where join/addA are O(n) < 1308855114 869848 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308855123 419263 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1308855154 578534 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i guess it is just worse than Seq in every way :) < 1308855161 579766 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1308855167 652696 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that taking the init of a Seq is ugly, you need the second-last element of the Seq that inits returns... < 1308855179 591933 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to not be O(one) < 1308855189 151741 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm storing a snake, you see, from the game < 1308855196 39167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Snake = Snake { snakeDirection :: Direction < 1308855196 188060 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : , snakePosition :: Position < 1308855196 188266 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : , snakeSegments :: Accordion Direction } < 1308855203 482526 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :advance :: Snake -> Snake < 1308855203 736167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :advance (Snake d p ds) = Snake d (move d p) (tailA ds `addA` d) < 1308855215 71472 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can find all the blocks to draw by just starting with the position and inverting all the movements < 1308855257 880247 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um init is just something like case rightview s of s' :> _ -> s' < 1308855268 17800 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, duh >_< < 1308855279 682497 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where i've forgotten the actual name of rightview) < 1308855342 291982 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i believe that's a* O(1) where a* is the same word i couldn't remember a while ago :P < 1308855373 909275 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle viewr < 1308855374 663339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence viewr :: Seq a -> ViewR a < 1308855374 812376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence data ViewR a < 1308855393 812990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amortised? < 1308855396 659029 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1308855403 99253 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I want Seq, then :) < 1308855410 26552 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle Seq.scanl < 1308855410 462699 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1308855413 201552 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle scanl < 1308855413 858445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude scanl :: (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a] < 1308855414 7365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString scanl :: (Word8 -> Word8 -> Word8) -> Word8 -> ByteString -> ByteString < 1308855414 7569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List scanl :: (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a] < 1308855428 250227 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanlA :: (a -> b -> a) -> a -> Accordion b -> Accordion a < 1308855428 399096 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanlA _ z End = Leaf z < 1308855428 911652 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanlA f z (Leaf x) = Join (f z x) End z < 1308855430 772397 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanlA f z (Join a xs b) = Join z xs' (f z' b) < 1308855432 878584 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : where xs' = scanlA f (f z a) xs < 1308855434 827986 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just (_, z') = rightA xs' < 1308855436 752793 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is broken and i don't know why :) < 1308855456 34063 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well Seq _should_ be Foldable, doesn't that have some scanl thing? < 1308855493 256650 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its in Data.Sequence < 1308855498 490822 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traversable would also work < 1308855532 315234 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, there should be a Foldable instance. i guess the modules may not be integrated (orphans and everything) < 1308855582 754839 :newsham!~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.2/html/libraries/containers-0.4.0.0/Data-Sequence.html says Foldable and Traversable < 1308855593 231817 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1308855608 299982 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :advance :: Snake -> Snake < 1308855608 448820 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :advance (Snake d p ds) = Snake d (move d p) (ds' |> d) < 1308855608 918092 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric : where ds' :> _ = Seq.viewr ds < 1308855610 764372 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grow :: Snake -> Snake < 1308855612 904942 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grow (Snake d p ds) = Snake d (move d p) (ds |> d) < 1308855614 789996 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ugly duplication :( < 1308855630 159016 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> snakePositions (grow initialSnake) < 1308855630 307816 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromList [(1,0),(2,0),(3,0),(4,0),(3,0)] < 1308855632 22289 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: New kernel time < 1308855632 896122 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that, it is broken < 1308855643 768703 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1308855648 173094 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1308855650 328501 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it sort of is < 1308855797 869520 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308855924 755815 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh right, scanl _is_ in Data.Sequence < 1308855936 735643 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which may be what you said) < 1308855942 443488 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1308856066 853896 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308856551 320495 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : where's oerjan when you need him < 1308856574 604571 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :walking to the shop, or possibly already inside < 1308856703 175814 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :carbon DIEoxide < 1308856704 237232 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ?pl let move 'u'(x,y)=(x,pred y);move 'd'(x,y) = (x,succ y); move 'l'(x,y) = (pred x,y); move 'r'(x,y) = (succ x,y) in scanl (flip move) (0,0) ['r','d','d','d'] < 1308856721 833992 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: ?pl has its own partial haskell parser for only the things it understands < 1308856733 174851 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1308856751 951451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IAmA reddit admin - AMA!" < 1308856752 527283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reddit has sunk to a new level. < 1308856769 153896 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This surprises me, because it's very close to the maximum of sunkishness. < 1308856776 310827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more and it'll have to start drilling. < 1308856788 257482 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: also, nearly nothing with pattern matching can be ?pl'ed. 2-tuples being one exception. < 1308856821 4595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm is there a monadic foldl... < 1308856826 449266 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \(x,y) -> (y,x) < 1308856827 152781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncurry (flip (,)) < 1308856828 61111 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can use the Maybe monad to prematurely terminate it < 1308856833 98144 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle foldlM < 1308856833 588999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable foldlM :: (Foldable t, Monad m) => (a -> b -> m a) -> a -> t b -> m a < 1308856839 162107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1308856864 1694 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1308856887 765456 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, what I want is concatMapM. < 1308856890 587935 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle concatMapM < 1308856891 57090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1308856893 690119 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CURSES < 1308856905 169522 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"3 completely identical human beings stop eating fats, carbohydrates and proteins respectively. In what order to they die, if at all, and what happens? " < 1308856912 674900 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a very hypo post, try it on your own body - it's there for experiencing." < 1308856922 996443 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait < 1308856936 83268 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapM (\x -> if even x then Just 9 else Nothing) [0,0,9] < 1308856937 230598 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1308856940 108460 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1308856967 134985 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldlM (\r x -> if even x then (9:) `fmap` r else Nothing) [] [0,0,9] < 1308856967 317268 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: What a strange question. < 1308856968 778783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `foldlM' < 1308856970 419020 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ffs < 1308856979 404558 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i just want it to stop processing the list and use the zero value whenever I return Nothing :( < 1308856987 630817 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, really? < 1308856990 571241 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: WriterT Maybe, maybe? < 1308856997 855742 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mapM, you mean? < 1308856999 315438 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find that answer very um... nasty < 1308857002 388528 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/i7as8/3_completely_identical_human_beings_stop_eating/ < 1308857008 242071 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo killed by sensitive < 1308857040 135781 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: um no? you would use tell to add new parts to concat... < 1308857046 968529 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :errorflux just looks like a boring trollidiot < 1308857060 995765 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have never really used Writer much : < 1308857079 144993 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: But, yeah, odds are the person without carbs wouldn't actually die from it, though they *might* have somewhat poor health. < 1308857088 423903 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: see keto < 1308857096 769835 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that seems to be the consensus in the thread < 1308857097 100671 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yuh. < 1308857102 111962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, *which* answer. < 1308857110 270179 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh hm you want it to keep the parts _before_ the first Nothing? < 1308857112 658505 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the very bottom one which he quoted < 1308857113 600913 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep < 1308857127 477434 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1308857131 238676 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: basically, I always advance the snake < 1308857137 609507 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: sounds like an unfoldr-like thing, then < 1308857137 922769 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but < 1308857148 462192 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if the game is over < 1308857151 260526 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to advance the snake < 1308857154 608425 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to close the list then and there < 1308857212 316552 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover> "IAmA reddit admin - AMA!" <-- without even looking, i assume that's a parody on all the fake IAMAs? < 1308857222 618639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1308857223 349338 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its real < 1308857230 15884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nope, it's by an actual admin. < 1308857275 61397 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: huh :P < 1308857292 306176 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle unfoldrM < 1308857293 7111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1308857295 457205 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mknin9n9n0j0ninji9nujhujhuijijuijujijjijijijkjikjkkjijjj < 1308857299 297489 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GAP THERE < 1308857348 431171 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hm, MaybeT Writer perhaps... < 1308857366 453358 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ought to keep things already written < 1308857383 511660 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that requires pulling in maybet :( < 1308857387 546951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a plain unfoldr work? < 1308857402 258307 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps? is the function pure... < 1308857433 512106 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1308857433 874626 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unfoldr < 1308857435 115229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. (b -> Maybe (a, b)) -> b -> [a] < 1308857441 37126 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1308857441 585331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe mapMaybe :: (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1308857441 765537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude mapM :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b] < 1308857441 914391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad mapM :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b] < 1308857448 461401 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1308857457 551006 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> m (Maybe b)) -> [a] -> m [b] < 1308857458 151690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1308857460 78508 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (\(x:xs) -> if even x then Just ("yaaaaaaay", xs) else Nothing) [0,0,0,9] < 1308857460 227041 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1308857461 175532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["yaaaaaaay","yaaaaaaay","yaaaaaaay"] < 1308857493 133125 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good then < 1308857495 884155 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1308857499 645330 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, I need to handle empty list < 1308857500 113251 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1308857501 343217 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :run out of events < 1308857502 30333 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now < 1308857504 627899 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I can't really do < 1308857511 901782 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I need to produce more elements < 1308857516 372811 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would involve a Just < 1308857519 911680 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what would the reduced value be? < 1308857530 656994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, quick, get to the nearest particle accelerator. < 1308857595 432500 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what would you do if hitting an empty list, you say < 1308857621 163356 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: add the "advance the snake" event, mainly < 1308857635 340226 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I halt the processing early e.g. in case of game over, I do _not_ want to do that < 1308857641 709694 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm starting to think a manual recursion over the list might be best... < 1308857664 786901 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1308857677 586480 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1308857679 705363 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are too many options to branch over < 1308857819 970233 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ?src show < 1308857822 794230 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src Show < 1308857823 365232 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Show a where < 1308857823 532856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : showsPrec :: Int -> a -> ShowS < 1308857823 681660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : show :: a -> String < 1308857823 681821 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : showList :: [a] -> ShowS < 1308857840 953069 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm oh, I also need a sort of feedback loop thing... < 1308857849 606740 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of those can be defined in terms of the other, you need at least one of the first two < 1308857852 826717 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because triggering AdvanceSnake will trigger something looking up where the snake is now, which then might trigger a game over < 1308857858 334590 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: starting to think I need a _proper_ event system here < 1308857862 224410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with its own monad < 1308857876 981160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What are the benefits of a 45.7% increase in serum testosterone levels?" < 1308857890 342208 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lycanthropy, duh < 1308857893 62870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AskScience, you have been fatally holed below the waterline. < 1308857924 510659 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i assume that was inspired by the recent post about the results of not masturbating for a week < 1308857968 208592 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: either that or you need some truly gordian knot tying :P < 1308857983 697822 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's my idea of a library :D < 1308857994 784359 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have a feeling I'm about to reinvent FRP < 1308858023 186631 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP is out, now it's all RDP < 1308858040 77320 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1308858067 78804 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could figure out frp is functional reactive programming but what's that < 1308858083 740940 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: http://awelonblue.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/comparing-frp-to-rdp/ < 1308858118 869140 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im not going to have to expand my brain am i < 1308858120 281959 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im quite tired < 1308858128 979713 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reactive Demand Programming (RDP) was invented by me (David Barbour) around April 2010" < 1308858131 797568 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is not a good start < 1308858136 991621 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i may be slightly exaggerating here :P < 1308858140 501456 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has conal or luke said anything yet < 1308858155 570703 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there is no way i am going to read this < 1308858156 712255 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck if i know < 1308858164 276908 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not until i see a response at least < 1308858175 212230 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm dmbarbour rings a bell < 1308858219 176919 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading the overall < 1308858237 95 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i'm just reposting from r/haskell, anyhow < 1308858262 101311 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems interesting but tl;dr at this stage in my mind < 1308858278 547715 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not sure i like the tone, it reminds me too much of me < 1308858765 381299 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1308860937 746329 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B14C69F.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330] < 1308864553 916747 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.85 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1308864820 1180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308864859 857318 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have found a bug in LLVM (and I did report it on their IRC channel and bug report system) (as you might see from the report, I prefer to use pipes) < 1308864909 559447 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=10181 < 1308865561 7947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it when people use "borealis" in random names. < 1308865575 569625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not nearly as cool as it sounds. < 1308865601 168408 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty cool here up north < 1308865624 436485 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is indeed. < 1308865645 269369 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK so I'm quite a bit south of you but I'm still really north by, like, American standards.) < 1308865657 116309 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also we have colder summers than Helsinki so HA) < 1308865684 9487 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't finnish in case someone is confused < 1308865694 869699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, OK where do you live. < 1308865702 809519 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trondheim, Norway < 1308865726 950926 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1308865767 421109 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, tomorrow this is what sweden is doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ft1YyUkYY < 1308865778 443786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, we have colder summers than you as well. < 1308865850 902864 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it would ever actually be useful to use a code like that in the bug report! < 1308865875 100742 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow? we have our midsummer celebration today. < 1308865979 440332 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you weird norwegians < 1308865982 738202 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :det var ju lustigt att se < 1308866006 912923 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :midsummer's eve is always on a friday in sweden for ... well holiday scheduling reasons < 1308866018 269146 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1308866042 563532 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but today is also a de-facto friday since tomorrow is a no-work day < 1308866070 747715 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you get midsummer's eve off? < 1308866086 302328 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, you don't? < 1308866105 940697 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you get the 'day' off instead of the 'eve'? < 1308866123 762071 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair neither is an official day :P < 1308866177 207220 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you celebrate midsummer on a work day? even if it is before a work day so you have to work hung over? < 1308866190 734205 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just so bad, oerjan < 1308866217 633135 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it's on a thursday there _might_ be a slight decrease in people working on the day after :P < 1308866251 411430 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just as with other movable days off < 1308866418 800734 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :as always in sweden everything goes to a fixed pattern: thursday is queueing at systembolaget to get beer and schnaps, friday is pickled herring, schnaps and dancing the frog dance around the phallos, saturday is dedicated to being hung over < 1308866450 473151 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordning och reda < 1308866459 93583 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308866459 643161 :cheater__!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-234-18.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION subjects oklopol to torpillage. < 1308866469 396675 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordning och reda, pengar på freda' < 1308867769 666592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did comex just call Java a fine language? < 1308867782 982497 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-43500f4b.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By pointing to a comment that called it a fine language, I mean < 1308868130 950403 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1308869026 697785 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1308869033 888456 :CakeProphet!~adam@h40.1.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1308869034 142553 :CakeProphet!~adam@h40.1.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1308869034 291480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1308869416 650760 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308870284 75335 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1308870500 184452 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308870734 899350 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1308870796 88443 :Wamanuz4!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds