< 1310601655 507268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cur) (last) 22:20, 13 July 2011 Taneb (Talk | contribs) (Replaced with new esolang) < 1310601655 706973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cur) (last) 21:53, 13 July 2011 Taneb (Talk | contribs) (Numberwang moved to Numberwang (brainfuck derivative)) < 1310601659 888046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find this precedent disturbing < 1310601673 531256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to invent a language called brainfuck and move the old article away < 1310601680 181877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps to Brainfuck (brainfuck derivative)) < 1310601714 242716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:51:26: motion that people stop thinking i'm a wiki admin < 1310601714 975817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER < 1310601718 571415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: delete a page for me plz < 1310601755 552345 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm going to invent a language called brainfuck and move the old article away < 1310601764 652577 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I told him to try it and see if anyone stopped him. < 1310601771 625918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL STOP HIM WITH MY POWERS < 1310601774 347354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:07: * Rugxulo is not interested in searching months of backlogs ... < 1310601774 509727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:36:21: I probably missed some interesting stuff ... is fizzie here now? perhaps he can sum it up for me < 1310601780 433978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: your true purpose in life revealed. < 1310601795 904251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're just before the gay stuff. < 1310601799 930768 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor Taneb. < 1310601805 913227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cringing is ready. < 1310601838 376216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:44:14: You don't know what gender I am < 1310601843 336080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what i was giong to say < 1310601968 382728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:47:39: I am regretting joining this chat < 1310601968 565904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am regretting reading this log. < 1310602102 5113 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310602243 918745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:57:18: Taneb: although funnily i can only recall two people on the channel who are openly gay. (augur being one, of course.) < 1310602244 83683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait who's the other I KEEP A REGISTRY < 1310602256 337158 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you, ofcourse < 1310602275 451845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:59:11: `addquote ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex? < 1310602275 680675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOLLOW THE FUCKING RULES < 1310602279 713284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 503 < 1310602281 356190 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1310602286 731096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex? < 1310602288 392732 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :503) ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex? < 1310602308 403413 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whats the rules < 1310602315 55638 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a double space < 1310602336 643089 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1310602337 689246 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see because it breaks the line and I'm too lazy to adjust my terminal < 1310602393 897414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310602528 965434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait what < 1310602536 682795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1310602538 545608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two spacing rule < 1310602571 231282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it _was_ two spaces O_O < 1310602587 428097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea why you didn't see that < 1310602599 523537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh was it < 1310602605 309612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1310602606 592043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logs stripped it < 1310602606 997061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310602616 420594 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad logs < 1310602677 861577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, slereah < 1310602709 105947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce 'Slereah' as 'Slerah' in my head for some reason. < 1310602722 442229 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu QUIT :Quit: bye < 1310602734 258649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I thought 'Fibonacci' was 'Fibocanni' for quite some time, so I'm not terribly good at that. < 1310602766 486732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nthern_archive < 1310602770 53498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itt: userspace < 1310605684 549443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O...K... < 1310605689 23388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear seagulls outside. < 1310605698 894814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This suggests that it is uncomfortably close to morning. < 1310605704 649788 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1310605706 242175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1310605714 876387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's two am, you idiot. < 1310606945 19889 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310607045 377148 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310607349 536601 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More than 6,000 people with pillow-related injuries check into U.S. emergency rooms every year!" < 1310607360 445302 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I really, really, wanted to know that < 1310607438 961362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have... pillowphobia. < 1310607456 641102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pobia < 1310607485 246260 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I've never feared dying from pillow before < 1310607498 823260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now you do < 1310607518 187475 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably more likely to die in a pillow-related accident than by shark bite. especially if you never swim in the ocean. < 1310608246 416021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys how does Maven even work. < 1310608260 406693 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d932d7e4.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310608465 633121 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you "die from pillow"? < 1310608492 140017 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that thing in the movies where they put a pillow on someone's face and try to suffocate them < 1310608497 791261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work. < 1310608513 874859 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pillow fight gets violent < 1310608516 167483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we tried that with my ex once, but we just couldn't kill each other that way < 1310608527 708081 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just breathe through it or slightly tilt your head < 1310608532 266030 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that thing where you sneak rocks into your snowballs because you're mean < 1310608537 815887 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with pillows too < 1310608544 5871 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310608564 910059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a porks < 1310608683 196938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote you know that thing in the movies where they put a pillow on someone's face and try to suffocate them that doesn't work. we tried that with my ex once, but we just couldn't kill each other that way < 1310608684 923066 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :504) you know that thing in the movies where they put a pillow on someone's face and try to suffocate them that doesn't work. we tried that with my ex once, but we just couldn't kill each other that way < 1310608914 691191 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it is possible to suffocate someone with a pillow though. you have to shove it down her throat. hard. just because the movies do it wrong doesn't mean it can't be done. < 1310609092 734446 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right or you could set the pillow on fire and then shoot the girl < 1310609909 611510 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310612543 169183 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1310613354 946200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1310613769 497026 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.52 QUIT :Quit: left < 1310613848 867145 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310613923 494613 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310614080 534056 :ralc_!~ralc@dhcp233.akk.k-net.dk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310614167 496387 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310614635 864451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait < 1310614642 173267 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1310614850 818050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1310615268 235911 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you touch a boob that was on fire? < 1310615285 675296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Debian are always right, right? < 1310615301 180314 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/make -f says no. < 1310615320 83096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1310615339 724620 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the first line of boilerplate in pretty much every debian/rules file. < 1310615347 386512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so? < 1310615372 544147 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is, "Their packaging scheme is absurd." < 1310615385 273077 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just the most easy to spot absurdity. < 1310615521 515264 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1310615706 919086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OI < 1310616062 507082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, someone else answer :P < 1310616068 795517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Apache Two a DFSGLSGLSG-ok license? < 1310616107 47056 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's DFSG, FSF, and OSI approved. < 1310616113 151675 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to being GPLv3 compatible. < 1310616141 32635 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, it's only a non-copyleft license with a patent clause. < 1310616166 326017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN WHY ISN'T INTELLIJ IDEA IN DEBIAN (As someone suffering with Java, I am trying to find a tool to make it as bearable as possible, and Intellij IDEA looks well-liked :P) < 1310616211 324797 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :DFSG is pretty good < 1310616216 872357 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because it became free software only a couple years ago. < 1310616222 400855 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian packaging scheme is ridiculous < 1310616231 65060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh boy, their Linux distribution is a tar.gz. < 1310616232 778113 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, so are all packaging schemes < 1310616236 570136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS < 1310616236 804935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unpack the idea-10.0.tar.gz file using the following command: tar xfz idea-10.0.tar.gz < 1310616236 967189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run idea.sh from the bin subdirectory. < 1310616249 68294 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Some more so than others. < 1310616255 538617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just try NetBeans; that has the advantage of being packaged in my distribution. < 1310616269 346708 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most the source-based distros have at least *respectable* packaging schemes. < 1310616278 544468 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Most t/T/ < 1310616301 298704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I might just stick with Eclipse if I can get a tolerable build system working with it :P) < 1310616325 119256 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I give Slackware props for simplicity, though Slackbuild scripts are way too complicated for my tastes. < 1310616350 651679 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly due to being *entirely standalone*) < 1310616432 875550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, good, IDEA doesn't install globally. < 1310616439 447439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... just has no installation script. < 1310616446 623047 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try Groovy < 1310616451 77918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a language. < 1310616452 825178 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1310616461 488836 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in relation to your Java suffering) < 1310616464 959101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a fairly crappy one, but more importantly, an excruciatingly slow one. < 1310616491 524074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I'd have to bundle the entirety of Groovy in. < 1310616493 187586 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :java? aren't there other languages that run on the jvm and can interface with java, or are they bad too, or do you really have to use java < 1310616506 256434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :groovy is one such language. < 1310616522 91138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I'm writing a Bukkit plugin, so it has to be JVM based; any language will add heaps to my filesize; and I don't know of any languages that run on the JVM that are sufficiently good to make this worthwhile. < 1310616524 101074 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Clojure < 1310616533 990091 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah < 1310616540 984899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala is a mess. Clojure is also a mess. < 1310616548 884838 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jython! < 1310616554 408844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is... Python. < 1310616554 992489 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is a mess < 1310616572 476640 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a perl for jvm < 1310616579 981842 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it < 1310616583 881227 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one perl. :) < 1310616586 951415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jerl < 1310616591 354418 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jacl. < 1310616596 406654 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :jaskell < 1310616598 39660 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't there multiple perl6s at least < 1310616603 719145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's only one perl. :) < 1310616608 237346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=272641 < 1310616616 56668 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right parrot < 1310616619 188883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather dead now, I think < 1310616643 531816 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other languages exist < 1310616646 388849 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://jtcl.kenai.com/ < 1310616648 879437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bancstar < 1310616652 441029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: "lol" < 1310616661 92935 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not just code in JVM. < 1310616668 57536 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310616670 757197 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a real programer. < 1310616676 988977 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, with one m < 1310616681 963791 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more realistically, write your own Forth for JVM. < 1310616682 215839 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zepto for jvm < 1310616686 659996 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :j zepto < 1310616691 202638 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jepto. < 1310616696 913950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: You are launching IDE using OpenJDK Java runtime < 1310616697 88060 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that ruins it < 1310616697 250363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS STRICTLY UNSUPPORTED DUE TO KNOWN PERFORMANCE AND GRAPHICS PROBLEMS < 1310616719 103539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh IDEA why are you using ugly Javaish text rendering < 1310616720 842350 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I was unaware there was any notable difference between OpenJDK and Sun JDK. < 1310616726 419454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ugly javaish ui < 1310616732 469295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: there is < 1310616739 668971 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Like? < 1310616749 723980 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :known performance and graphics problems < 1310616753 414905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :openjdk = java seven backported to work with previous java versions < 1310616759 803506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a bunch of proprietary stuff rewritten < 1310616780 150776 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:JVM_programming_languages < 1310616818 930540 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are any of them minimal < 1310616848 165367 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pizza is a superset of Java. < 1310616850 98002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEA you are not being nice to me. < 1310616866 802098 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jscheme is r4rs is r4rs any good is jscheme any good < 1310616871 477910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with generics, function pointers, and "class cases and pattern matching (a.k.a. algebraic types)" < 1310616881 489341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, pizza == gj predecessor < 1310616891 672858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was designed by Gilad Bracha, Martin Odersky, David Stoutamire, and Philip Wadler to offer developers a smoother transition and better Java compatibility than the Pizza programming language, previously created by Odersky and Wadler." < 1310616893 399968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big names < 1310616894 639312 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pizza tastes good < 1310616992 44515 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GJ? < 1310617001 56383 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only one I recognize is Bracha :/ < 1310617002 517097 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there php for jvm < 1310617013 952160 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only one I recognize is odersky < 1310617026 722635 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this make me a bad person < 1310617067 447289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you don't recognise odersky? wadler? < 1310617082 341174 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I only recognize Bracha because of Newspeak, tbh < 1310617091 85487 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :odersky is the scala guy right < 1310617100 799901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever knew who wadler is, I forget now < 1310617118 956989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: odersky = creator of Scala, Wadler = populariser of monads in functional programming, populariser in general of functional programming, influential in development of Haskell, author of "Theorems for free!", which popularised the study of parametricity in functional languages < 1310617157 406664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Larry Wall = God of teh computers < 1310617157 603054 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds decent < 1310617162 853963 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1310617163 293789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: r u srs < 1310617171 791674 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :teh is a serious word < 1310617176 114808 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya srsly < 1310617198 270267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, IDEA is complex < 1310617206 354218 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike IDEs < 1310617208 587391 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it stand for? < 1310617216 12139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEA, I think < 1310617223 555227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah but with Java it's not an IDE so much as... < 1310617226 143829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the real language < 1310617236 671682 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1310617237 928087 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be possible to change the D to a K and make furniture puns? < 1310617245 701672 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um, it's not Smalltalk.. < 1310617248 485314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you might see , but the actual language behind it is is [File → New → Class] < 1310617267 166119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just erases that information after you write it, because java is stupid < 1310617271 810866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't reify intentions < 1310617288 11887 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do it with reflection < 1310617294 28890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a joke right < 1310617296 428427 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310617305 95933 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to continue it < 1310617309 251208 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make it better < 1310617313 106347 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you killed it < 1310617314 138189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1310617317 358815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: go on < 1310617317 789002 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the answer to any problem in Java is "define a class" < 1310617320 791981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's pretend i said nothing < 1310617321 721519 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't < 1310617322 744535 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dead < 1310617324 212905 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gone < 1310617328 915238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1310617343 217361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IntelliJ IDEA Q[ampersand]A for Eclipse Users < 1310617343 382346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: What happened to my Workspace? Where are all my projects? < 1310617343 545835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: They're OK, but in a slightly different way. < 1310617354 50267 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in a better place < 1310617360 319015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have been converted into a hilarious furniture themed interface! < 1310617381 604169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: I feel that the editor behaves differently. Am I right? < 1310617381 824151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Yes, you are. < 1310617395 999202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these answers are so helpful. < 1310617477 953750 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of your files are in drawers, the current file being edited is on the table. You have a handy wardrobe of tools, and you compile with the coffee cup. < 1310617499 92106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's longer answers below :P < 1310617543 635023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEA what are you doing, you confuse me even more than Emacs :( < 1310617545 369628 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the homespring of ides? < 1310617556 297385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asterisk HOtMEfSPRIbNG < 1310617562 684475 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't bother to remember that < 1310617583 12092 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott can always be bothered. < 1310617604 213309 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is his youthful superpower < 1310617611 354176 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently jaskell is a thing but instead of being like haskell it's weird < 1310617615 12818 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :young whipper-snapper < 1310617639 234446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice apparently has ideas from ML and Haskell < 1310617649 913533 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's all I know about it. Also I think it's dying. < 1310617668 554300 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I wish io wasn't dead. Such a good idea.. < 1310617670 288877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god yeah jaskell < 1310617672 127498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we found that before < 1310617673 952237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazing < 1310617685 521616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has like, literlaly nothing to do with haskell? < 1310617685 683884 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know what its deal is < 1310617687 103775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally < 1310617690 795408 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally < 1310617718 384333 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's OCaml-Java < 1310617760 616276 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erjang, and Micro Focus JVM Visual COBOL < 1310617769 229310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEA is upsetting me < 1310617769 484975 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are your best choices. < 1310617771 253532 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOBOL < 1310617772 221002 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 4 java schemes, 2 java phps, 3 java clisps, two cobols, awk, ada, 2 logos, 3 luas, 2 pascals, perl6 < 1310617784 514415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll write it in logo then < 1310617786 13521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pascal < 1310617790 143833 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cobol < 1310617790 874940 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice < 1310617792 628520 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : I probably missed some interesting stuff ... is fizzie here now? perhaps he can sum it up for me <-- Just paste the last year of logs into Microsoft Word and use the "auto-summarize" option. < 1310617808 667440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a C to JVM compiler... < 1310617808 840264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow IDEA wasn't joking about letting you place the cursor outside of a line boundary < 1310617825 504861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what IDEA reminds me of < 1310617827 379201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEA reminds me of J < 1310617860 262841 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never bothered to understand J < 1310617874 708994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the other J < 1310617877 41437 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310617881 418436 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alef++, a programming language inspired by Perl and Lisp. < 1310617884 66725 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds good to me. < 1310617884 397911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J the language is awesome you sohuld understand it. < 1310617889 608768 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ahahahaha what < 1310617896 534190 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two Js? < 1310617904 337711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages < 1310617905 33327 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll put J in my reading pile < 1310617911 547422 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :under "New JVM languages" < 1310617916 712699 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alefpp.sourceforge.net/ < 1310617924 940619 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a language have ++ in its name that's obscene < 1310617931 789306 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a language be influenced by both perl and lisp < 1310617934 167056 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's obscene < 1310617960 427322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, IDEA is kind of slow when i type, prolly cause of openjdk < 1310617961 365597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1310617962 576058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i < 1310617964 404565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am going to try netbeans < 1310617989 169155 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Eclipse for Java IDEs.. < 1310617996 717355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, it sucks < 1310618007 252121 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember J is related to APL and it's good for golf and it's "function-level" but that's it < 1310618009 269386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the best one I've found. I don't like netbeans at all. < 1310618016 986760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it wouldn't suck if i had the patience to get the build system working < 1310618035 358934 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: be a snob and use emacs for everything. < 1310618036 774680 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :investigating alef++ now < 1310618038 56290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's actually a really powerful paradigm and understanding it brings a great insight into why programs in it are so short < 1310618042 410939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: J, that is < 1310618054 459273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hint: J would be just as good as golf if every operator had a word-long name < 1310618079 660899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :function-level is a misnomer, it basically just has higher-order functions (every function is an operator, functions have one or two arguments only) < 1310618080 820056 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah it's on my reading pile. I read about that function-level paradigm once but I never really tried doing anything with it. I will. eventually. < 1310618086 188387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not full higher-order functions, just second-level < 1310618092 377990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has things like forks < 1310618117 511962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unopa binopb unopc) x = (unopa x) binopb unopc x < 1310618124 191058 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only the functions were even slightly possible to remember < 1310618125 114671 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember there are no values things in "function-level" languages and that's it < 1310618129 771543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1310618131 979756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bullshit < 1310618134 389768 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310618136 881391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: they are. < 1310618143 37926 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I should make an Ahnk deck thing < 1310618155 90346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so sum is +/%# = +/ % # < 1310618158 688745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :% is division < 1310618162 360903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is length < 1310618165 740972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1310618168 442217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: mean < 1310618168 986252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sum < 1310618173 176379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ is over (fold) < 1310618177 390626 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1310618180 114277 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: they are hard to remember forever without making a mnemonic. they are easy to remember while you're actually reading and using it. < 1310618183 490022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just (sum fold) divide length < 1310618183 652014 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or < 1310618197 143274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and basically, every operation is lifted to arrays < 1310618201 866749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. array+array does the obviousa < 1310618205 739653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arrays are N-dimensional) < 1310618210 558198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and fixed-size) < 1310618222 104820 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they always have 7 elements < 1310618224 660592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310618234 355580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: basically the J approach to solving problems is to look at the problem so that everything is an array, and then you just construct the array operation out of the primitives. :) < 1310618244 942968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you very rarely see explicit loops or recursion of any sort < 1310618252 306678 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I need to learn this. I'll do it after I finish my busy. < 1310618252 742265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have this thing called map that kind of works like that. < 1310618257 641939 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fold.. < 1310618257 991087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: busy is a bad thing to do. < 1310618262 291213 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and zip < 1310618266 300903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes, and J takes that idea to the entire language. < 1310618331 942816 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right and I'm suspending my busy until I get on this alef++ thing. good time management. < 1310618357 66100 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why "Alef++"? < 1310618357 413533 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some day I'm bored -- no project no idea --, but magically, i Googling a magical words "Creating my own programming language", by finding, reading, and testing some Open Source projects based in Java Virtual Machine like ObjectScript, Sleep, JRuby ..., i want to create my own dynamic programming language with a design like Perl. but recently, Artificial Intelligence has attracted my curiosity by programming with Lisp. < 1310618363 80205 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :After, i decided to forge a revolutionary design for a programming language, between my imagination and (Perl, Lisp) syntax, by giving birth for Alef++. < 1310618366 82028 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this for serious < 1310618406 707497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to counteract the horrible with http://inamidst.com/pluvo/
< 1310618417 500319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Perl-influenced language that's actually interesting < 1310618445 263722 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :onto the reading pile < 1310618465 160689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION barf all over netbeans
< 1310618495 837212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eclipse it is < 1310618507 505924 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alef++ is, unsurprisingly, horrible < 1310618520 664248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its syntax owes much to Bash" ;; hehe, these words rarely signify goodness < 1310618523 236857 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand a J/Perl hybrid. < 1310618530 886910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I demand that there be Perl hybrids of every language. < 1310618540 441249 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl/lisp oh wait < 1310618544 689081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl/per < 1310618545 147236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1310618555 434259 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually alef++ doesn't seem anything like lisp to me < 1310618557 407686 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I missing < 1310618559 141532 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT BASH INSPIRED SYNTAX < 1310618564 253386 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi sgeo < 1310618568 710851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: pluvo is actually good, shut your trap. < 1310618585 121141 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even alef++'s website is broken wtf < 1310618589 637395 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, thought we were talkig about a different language < 1310618605 179758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logic < 1310618619 956743 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alef++, is a new programming language like Perl and Lisp syntax, with a many changing in classical languages designs, her specification designed to be implemented for any VM, by default can access to any private/protected/default Java fields or methods. < 1310618635 677323 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwhat < 1310618640 112375 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alef++ < 1310618641 13359 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can access any private Java field? < 1310618681 840485 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...don't tell me encapsulation isn't enforced at the JVM level.. or is it workaround-able like in Ruby? < 1310618704 57361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion of my java ide exxxploration: everything sucks, eclipse slightly lessso < 1310618706 968529 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe access modifiers are compile-time only. < 1310618720 393300 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: They definitely exist on the bytecode level in Java. < 1310618721 300274 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have reached the same conclusion. < 1310618735 171916 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall you can go around them with the reflection API, though. < 1310618736 130750 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, well, shows what I know about JVM. :P < 1310618767 956265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey, you can configure eclipse to use less ugly tabs < 1310618800 146694 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://radio.javaranch.com/val/2004/05/18/1084891793000.html "Hack any Java class using Reflection" (first Google hit on some relevant keywords) < 1310618803 972758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION configures Eclipse to automatically close tabs. good idea.
< 1310618820 562038 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay enough alef++ for me < 1310618861 165170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[X] Show affordance in hover on how to make it sticky" < 1310618862 103270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1310618870 892413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hey Pluvo looks pretty cool. < 1310618910 608744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wish Eclipse was slightly less laggy than it is < 1310618913 502047 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax looks like someone mixed Haskell and Perl. < 1310618948 964413 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good idea < 1310618949 913764 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect this is superficial. < 1310618959 819237 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You put shit in my jelly!" "You put jelly in my shit!" < 1310618987 88900 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax is good at being superficial < 1310619001 348289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does eclipse really rebuild every project whenever i save a file < 1310619024 794906 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: superficial in some sense, but not superficial in the "unimportant" sense. < 1310619114 868575 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly concrete syntax that invites superficial; abstract syntax is nice and structurey < 1310619247 112540 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :concrete syntax is concerned with layout, abstract syntax is the structure. I think both are important. < 1310619277 940515 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that makes Haskell nice is the user-defined infix operators. A small change in syntax layout that improves the coding experience. < 1310619325 556077 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice the subtle difference between "is" and "is good at being"/"invites" < 1310619393 395495 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's important (at least at some level), but it invites lots of concern/hype/whatever about things that really don't matter < 1310619398 445515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Eclipse actually wraps to eighty chars by defaul < 1310619398 951177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1310619452 802112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: depends on what you think matters. The concrete layout of the syntax is important to me, especially as the semantics become more complex. < 1310619555 517718 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reiteration: it matters, but is, in my opinion, more prone to invite superficial nonsense than other aspects of language design < 1310619613 43323 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: awesome < 1310619635 810732 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Because a ***<>* b makes code so clear < 1310619655 463496 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, no, not quite. < 1310619666 754413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly prefer things to be convenient. This is why I don't like Java. < 1310619667 587971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "awesome"? < 1310619672 205900 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1310619679 634422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i too use a vtonehundred < 1310619686 994751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having short infix operators composed of just a few symbols is rather convenient. < 1310619705 583179 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 80cols is important for putting multiple files up simultaneously < 1310619719 945529 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also reducing horizontal scan < 1310619731 285616 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes except all the good ones are taken < 1310619731 967875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is java < 1310619737 561943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eightycols just makes boilerplate spread across multiple lines < 1310619742 262634 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike infix operators due to alignment/precedence/yuck issues but I don't know of anything better :( < 1310619761 97894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I very rarely run into wanting to name an operator a name that's already taken in Haskell < 1310619770 746044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe it's an issue that exists in practice < 1310619789 253797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only duplicates I get are for Parsec, which has names identical to ones in Control.Applicative for backwards-compat, but they do the exact same thing as the Applicative ones < 1310619791 785555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's not even a conflict < 1310619807 44577 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I see code using operators like ||| or *** I cringe < 1310619815 243513 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have a fucking clue what they are supposed to do < 1310619818 185851 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used *** < 1310619818 439485 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just symbols < 1310619820 185685 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ||| yet < 1310619829 709024 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me it's Java syntax that mostly ruins Java for me. Semantically I actually consider somewhat elegant due to the minimalism, but the syntax is verbose and that makes simple things very inconvenient. < 1310619830 179643 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd much rather `infix` operators at that point < 1310619830 372719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (***) is called split < 1310619834 596388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I don't think that would enlighten you either < 1310619839 695901 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....not that I like Java semantics, I was just comparing it to the syntax. < 1310619849 682512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Before you learned , you didn't have a fucking clue what was supposed to do. < 1310619856 14576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except by familiarity with things you already know. < 1310619857 201602 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ||| is used in xmonad for composing layout strategies or whatever they call them < 1310619859 867920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learning curves are not bad. < 1310619874 687119 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh I know (|||) from the ArrowChoice or whatever it is definition < 1310619875 745288 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is true < 1310619882 347357 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (and (***) from Arrow) < 1310619888 659996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason you could possibly think learning curves are bad is because you have rarely strayed outside your circle of knowledge, i.e. you've only used languages that are really no improvement on what you know. < 1310619889 357835 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1310619912 665923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming languages are... well, languages; they should optimise for concision for powerful/general/useful/common operators. < 1310619940 226404 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: Perl. :D < 1310619945 625319 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elliott: However I find that the Haskell community's treatment of abstract symbols are an unnecessary addition to the learning curve < 1310619947 306673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Arrow options are pretty much as general as they come, so they have short, concise names; some of them are infix operators because any alphabetic name would either be far too long, or incomprehensible. < 1310619965 778432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also alphabetic names for everything suck. see: Java < 1310619974 736586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sucks < 1310619977 266378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I hear that complaint a lot, but never from someone who actually uses Haskell for actual projects. < 1310619997 786021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that, usually, valid complaints are echoed from within a community; certainly for Haskell there are many valid complaints that are echoed within the community. < 1310620010 703690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually most valid complaints about Haskell are heard /only/ within the community because they require an understanding of the language to form.) < 1310620051 644250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When using Haskell I basically never think "oh, these infix operators sure are a drag"; usually, replacing infix operators with alphabetic ones would make my code's structure harder to see. < 1310620053 70839 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with these statements, elliott.. < 1310620080 936788 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must congratulate you on one of the most lucid arguments I have heard you make < 1310620110 151828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now extend the arguments to complaints about Perl, plz. :) < 1310620120 355504 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I would say that part of the reason these sorts of complaints don't get heard as much within the community are that the learning curve is steep enough to discourage the people who would complain about that sort of thing < 1310620123 480007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare (f `blahBlah` g) with (f >>+ g); you may not know what (>>+) does, but you probably wouldn't know what blahBlah does either; you're pretty much going to have to look it up no matter what you do. At least with the latter, those who know the operator can more easily scan the code, because the symbols make a distinction between "branch"/"structural" elements and "leaf" elements of a tree of compositional-style code. < 1310620128 14916 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is a mess end of argument < 1310620128 308425 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: not on your life < 1310620177 17783 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps this is an implicit goal of the haskell community < 1310620178 172390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Certainly true, but the Haskell community is big enough that I feel that just about any argument should have someone arguing for it from within. For chrissakes, I even saw someone argue, on /r/haskell -- someone who actually used Haskell to write actual code -- that nobody uses the monads that aren't basically StateT IO, and that they should be removed. < 1310620224 262966 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1310620224 632896 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, no one uses [] or Maybe... < 1310620244 579766 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -> < 1310620257 213667 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest thing I ever wrote to a real project in Haskell used Parsec < 1310620269 762519 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime I should learn what the (-> a) monad instance means < 1310620272 269332 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I still consider Parsec to be one of the greatest things about Haskell < 1310620286 765564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Another thing on infix operations: If you read a paper about Haskell, the operators are almost universally prettied up with LaTeX along with the rest of the code, < 1310620289 58642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]code. < 1310620297 673025 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f >>= g a = g (f a) a < 1310620301 774821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: <*> is a lot nicer when you see it as "star in a circle". < 1310620303 679216 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :return = const < 1310620309 314359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically a limitation of ASCII, though. < 1310620322 751924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally we'd write Haskell programs on whiteboards. :p < 1310620326 365958 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno; the angle bracket shape is pretty groovy < 1310620359 708602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsec is certainly a great way of showing how Haskell's abstractions help in writing actual code. < 1310620409 614234 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also how infix operators help to make code more concise. < 1310620411 914990 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: out of curiosity, how familiar are you with category theory in the rigorous sense? < 1310620433 428342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not nearly as much as I'd like to be, but learning it properly isn't on my short-term todo list. < 1310620439 103848 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*proper use of infix operators < 1310620446 93583 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok < 1310620469 467813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I feel a little twinge of disappointment in myself every time Edward Kmett posts something and I don't "get" it. :) < 1310620480 57791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "get" as in understand why the code works, but "get" in a more abstract sense. < 1310620488 255607 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my experience with Haskell tells me I would be best served learning proper category theory and considering Haskell to be an application of the category theory) < 1310620489 103511 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : does perl properly use infix operators, or is that just unary prefix and those wacky sigil things and whatever /// and friends are? < 1310620495 751347 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a: no < 1310620509 67121 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: a useful function is ap. ap f g = (\a -> f a (g a)) < 1310620518 342640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: There are a significant number of prominent Haskell programmers that consider the category theory relation to not actually be that useful to understanding Haskell code < 1310620533 511597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be able to say who's right, though. < 1310620533 673764 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap(++)show$"ap(++)show" < 1310620535 186349 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ap(++)show\"ap(++)show\"" < 1310620536 326755 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: S is nice, yes; I usually use (<*>) instead though < 1310620549 697591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is obviously much of Haskell that does not actually originate from category theory. < 1310620555 383354 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and return is K < 1310620563 646845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only a handful of main abstractions from category theory to understand, I would say. < 1310620563 987093 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1310620565 307521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe two handfuls. < 1310620584 960657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to get Eclipse to unindent blank lines as soon as I leave them? < 1310620591 47201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really irks me to have those tabs lying around. < 1310620594 626946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tab characters, that is. < 1310620604 950640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that Clean Up does it, but that's another step. < 1310620616 293327 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think fmap is composition < 1310620626 870439 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember anything else at the moment < 1310620629 418819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: not familiar with how <*> works for the (e ->) instnace < 1310620637 607814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: correct. < 1310620642 340998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap.($) < 1310620643 82703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1310620651 143226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1310620657 549774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (flip fmap.($)) < 1310620658 296327 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b a1. (a -> b) -> (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> b < 1310620680 654926 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: (<*>) is literally ap but defined as a part of applicative functors rather than in terms of monad stuff < 1310620699 878847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, we really need a better hierarchy for those typeclasses < 1310620716 607137 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh, so it's identical. < 1310620728 891758 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but <*> looks a lot nicer than `ap` < 1310620731 809468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1310620759 36403 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and <*> is more general, assuming someone bothered to define applicative instances for every monad < 1310620759 901042 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or perhaps something better than typeclasses.. < 1310620770 583363 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: perl allusion? < 1310620784 811221 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done no alluding to Perl.... < 1310620800 478896 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1310620803 520428 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about? < 1310620818 294813 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking if you were in the process of alluding to perl < 1310620822 249420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no. < 1310620822 498508 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1310620832 543703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typeclasses are pretty good. < 1310620838 871010 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Haskell has generally figured shit out better than Perl has. < 1310620854 152650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be silly to allude to Perl as a means to improve Haskell. < 1310620875 583571 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly is good so long as not everyone is serious < 1310620877 562985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1310620880 394517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eclipse, u r being bad. < 1310620884 607323 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning of good depending on who is serious < 1310620900 307064 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe ant < 1310620925 980071 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know about it is it uses xml < 1310620933 529019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1310620937 134305 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had dynamic typing like Perl, then typeclass hierarchies wouldn't even be an issue! < 1310620951 931837 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how was that? < 1310620959 742569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had loose typing like forth, type errors wouldn't even be an issue! < 1310620966 507457 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen antfiles and heard stuff and stuff < 1310620977 709831 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: notwithstanding the dumbstupid bits of design whereby Haskell concepts don't map cleanly onto category-theoretic ones, my main issue with Haskell is simply one of comphrehending the reason each particular abstraction exists < 1310620999 664759 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who thought xml was a good idea suited to build process definition or whatever the term is for what antfiles do < 1310621002 833859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstraction for the sake of abstraction, duh. < 1310621014 637800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I feel like "issue" places the blame unnecessarily on Haskell, since the problem seems to be mainly one of ignorance < 1310621033 66361 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry, yes, that was phrased badly < 1310621044 576945 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl fixes all of these issues by not allowing you to define other data structures besides the ones it provides you. < 1310621057 374690 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it gives you oop < 1310621057 551367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I mean, understanding why monads are useful is pretty easy (IMO; way too much emphasis is placed on monads as being a Thing in writings about Haskell by people who don't know Haskell, which is unfortunate) < 1310621062 112705 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my small experience with formal category theory tells me that this is the best approach. I shall eventually follow it up with learning examples (both in mathematics and in Haskell) < 1310621076 660532 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed on that point < 1310621077 626860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Alternative is an abstraction that is very easy to understand the use of: < 1310621080 779073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Applicative f => Alternative f where < 1310621081 14448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty :: f a < 1310621081 176778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<|>) :: f a -> f a -> f a < 1310621081 176961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some :: f a -> f [a] < 1310621081 177068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :many :: f a -> f [a] < 1310621092 344069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know Parsec, you understand Alternative's use, and can easily visualise its generalisation to failure handling of various kinds < 1310621103 899741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know the list monad, you can come up with the implementation pretty easily < 1310621129 55224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, some and many are confusing, but they have defaults) < 1310621154 250284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shame with Alternative is that it's separate from Monoid and MonadPlus, sigh < 1310621171 79592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean, sure some abstractions are difficult to see teh application of < 1310621174 734710 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's arrowplus' deal; I forget < 1310621177 156366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to think of a solution to that other than reading a bunch of code < 1310621188 686400 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it have a different name like arrowadd < 1310621200 819033 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be nice if the only thing that mattered was the type of the function and not the name for the purposes of being an instance, but I think that would create some ambiguity. < 1310621208 432804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: uhhhh, yeah. < 1310621209 90411 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sorry, but I have to be honest; the defintion of Alternative provides me little insight into what it does < 1310621216 848410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well it has documentation, I elided it < 1310621222 822631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it "does" nothing, it is a typeclass < 1310621231 890807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you've used Parsec, you know what <|> does < 1310621235 59058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty is the failure value < 1310621240 187144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some and many are irrelevant (they have defaults) < 1310621262 990267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i hadn't picked it now since it's part of the Great Number of Typeclasses That are Actually Just Monoids, sigh < 1310621268 736740 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm lookingat the documentation < 1310621273 417600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list implementation is empty = []; (<|>) = (++) btw < 1310621291 862551 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do some and many do? < 1310621298 934584 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ArrowPlus < 1310621299 122894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Are you on drugs? < 1310621307 136241 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310621317 838259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: like I said, they're basically just library functions; they're in the typeclass so you can give them more efficient implementations < 1310621318 358483 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: why is lambdabot so mean? < 1310621318 585264 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'll bet that lurking further down the road is some sort of magic shell script that gives you ( complaints/ bugs to: < 1310621329 280528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're irrelevant for this quickly-becoming-disasterous example < 1310621334 1114 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh ArrowPlus is actually split up into ArrowZero and ArrowPlus < 1310621335 919693 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snazzy < 1310621365 997813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1310621372 149020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310621382 4497 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :may your example rest in peace < 1310621393 237521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guh, Eclipse's generated ant build.xmls are so ugly < 1310621393 399532 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok let's pretend you did MonadPlus then < 1310621404 440964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's just as bad. < 1310621411 158613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only Monoid should exist :P < 1310621420 531064 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok fine < 1310621430 779429 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: monoid it is < 1310621431 861695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh hey, new homestuck albums) < 1310621436 311381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think that Monoid would be vastly improved by having (++) instead of mappend < 1310621439 885953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, you know whawt a monoid is. < 1310621441 327492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably.c < 1310621444 387512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hysterical raisins < 1310621448 773305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :base sucks, get used to it :P < 1310621460 487334 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :caleskell caleskell < 1310621503 445389 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, since monoids are pretty common, it seems expected that there would be a number of typeclasses that are supersets of Monoid. < 1310621514 588007 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is a real complaint about the Haskell community: They let the abstract algebra leak into 'how to program in this language' way too quickly < 1310621521 201463 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they use better names like (<|>) instead of mappend... < 1310621526 736611 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: supersets/identical???????? < 1310621531 696086 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully I enjoy abstract algebra so I am not significantly discouraged by this < 1310621539 188726 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: except requiring a different kind < 1310621548 216461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: every other language lets sloppy engineering leak into "how to program in this language" way too quickly < 1310621575 226172 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for newbies, the Monoid a => Monoid (Maybe a) instance documentation is horrendous < 1310621576 102893 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well yes, some are identical. It's nice to not have to newtype for every possible monoid. < 1310621582 401452 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance) < 1310621589 196203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instances need documentation? < 1310621599 841493 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so, yes. < 1310621616 806641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some types have more than one possible instance for a typeclass < 1310621620 32720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of the time they don't < 1310621625 593765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any documentation would be... boilerplate. < 1310621635 251476 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't Maybe like that < 1310621643 166559 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's what First and Last < 1310621645 312893 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Just 2 `mappend` Just 3 < 1310621646 102748 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `t' in the constraints: < 1310621646 265225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Monoid.Monoid t' < 1310621646 427818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1310621653 13775 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use +++ < 1310621654 577594 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1310621655 505401 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ < 1310621656 78221 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Lift a semigroup into Maybe forming a Monoid according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid: "Any semigroup S may be turned into a monoid simply by adjoining an element e not in S and defining e*e = e and e*s = s = s*e for all s S." Since there is no "Semigroup" typeclass providing just mappend, we use Monoid instead. " < 1310621657 73863 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleugh < 1310621659 366793 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (++) < 1310621660 104913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall m. (Monoid m) => m -> m -> m < 1310621665 619081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok, I agree that's ugly inline < 1310621682 33207 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wait, (++) = mappend? Is that standard Haskell? < 1310621686 705284 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: caleskell < 1310621691 617117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's wrapped in the code which is slightly better http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/4.3.1.0/doc/html/src/Data-Monoid.html#Monoid < 1310621702 778056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but basically ... well < 1310621706 882704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok, what you're saying is: < 1310621716 375757 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) < 1310621717 155539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1310621720 115610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that documentation is not helpful for a newbie who doesn't know abstract algebra < 1310621721 368003 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: caleskell < 1310621739 656873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is true, but the newbie probably either doesn't want to use the instance, or will just use it without the documentation by experimentation < 1310621755 938059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes just a brief explanation of how a particular instance works would be nice. < 1310621762 659765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But remember that this is an API reference, not a tutorial < 1310621767 901900 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is true < 1310621774 421366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: tbh, I find sourcediving the quickest way to answer such wishes < 1310621781 974646 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's normally what I do. < 1310621790 103256 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thus it becomes apparent that knowing the abstract algebra is useful < 1310621799 975669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it doesn't describe intent/use-cases and such. < 1310621803 915780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I agree that the Haskell... "experience" for a newbie could use improvement, but on the other hand, I don't really care much about the experiences of people coming from "traditional" imperative languages. < 1310621838 542963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not that they're bad people or anything, I just think that "dumbing down" Haskell to make it easier for them would miss the point of Haskell < 1310621847 527221 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't find Haskell to be particularly difficult to learn, at least the basics anyways. < 1310621858 152241 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell wasn't difficult at all for me < 1310621868 860180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not saying I want to be "elitist" about it or anything -- god I love scare quotes -- but I find, e.g. a mathematician wanting to learn Haskell a much more interesting origin to optimise for. < 1310621869 899870 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the learning curve is in the abstractions that are built from a fairly simple language. < 1310621893 724300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I also don't think that belittling "traditional" programmers by hiding the abstract algebra, etc. underpinnings of things a good idea, either. < 1310621912 993059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, there are a lot of programmers who would dismiss it as abstract nonsense, but let's be honest, they probably wouldn't end up using Haskell anyway. < 1310621919 948674 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true < 1310621954 61333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately this kind of we're-all-practical-and-those-guys-are-so-abstract-ho-ho superiority complex seems to be distressingly common with programmers on the internet, but well... this is the internet, everyone is an asshole.) < 1310621983 158348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: Perl programmers < 1310621987 731449 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're "practical" — we believe malloc is cheap and garbage collection expensive. < 1310622005 34269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think your criticism is definitely valid, but at the same time I think that the Haskell community should focus on making the language nicer for existing users is more important than making it nicer for newbies, at least in the short-ish term. < 1310622008 308875 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do php programmers think < 1310622013 338575 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Nothing. < 1310622013 562880 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok < 1310622015 917840 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :php programmers don't think anything.... < 1310622018 411250 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their heads are entirely empty. < 1310622033 906915 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they also have a hat full of bomb? < 1310622047 939062 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP programmers are programmers who are too stupid to be Perl programmers. < 1310622054 448973 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or who are paid to be PHP programmers. < 1310622064 538555 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who pays someone to program in php < 1310622068 578991 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people... < 1310622072 188093 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: the internet < 1310622076 898916 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: One thing I wish was possible was a better way to handle cases where a single type may have multiple instances of a typeclass, as with Monoid < 1310622080 262879 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadist? idiot? are there other reasons? < 1310622094 589332 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, money. < 1310622107 296391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Typeclasses are a trade-off: You avoid passing a record to every single function you're using, but you can only have one instance. < 1310622122 740190 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really every PHP script in the world should be replaced with Perl. < 1310622131 889745 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well you can get around that with newtype < 1310622132 52052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Actually I hear that ML programmers laughed at Haskell typeclasses to start with, because "ho ho only one instance", but then it turns out that passing around records is a huge gigantic pain and typeclasses are so much more convenient. < 1310622140 910923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: IMO, if there is more than one possible instance, either: < 1310622149 770345 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype newtype newtype! < 1310622154 768139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- There is one instance that is much more useful than the other, and the other should be provided with a newtype; < 1310622165 378435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Or both are equally useful, and there should be _no_ instance for the base type, only two newtypes. < 1310622183 312857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not ideal, but usually there's only one instance you would actually want to use, so it works out. < 1310622188 219659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the latter seems to be a path not often taken. < 1310622237 988466 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I agree in concept; I just wish the syntax was better < 1310622263 878300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1310622271 618386 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype is a pain :'( < 1310622297 863523 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have Monoid1, Monoid2, Monoid3, ... :) < 1310622302 232258 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what could be simpler. < 1310622318 311325 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Actually, not really. < 1310622321 102453 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: 'everything else' is not a valid response) < 1310622322 978805 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There'd be only one Monoid. < 1310622344 807871 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There'd be ConcatList and ZipList, though. < 1310622383 370137 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, not Monoid implementations. My brain sucks at thinking of a more relevant example.) < 1310622388 943962 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for instance, getSum $ mconcat $ map Sum [1..10] < 1310622408 788621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/newtype/0.2/doc/html/Control-Newtype.html < 1310622414 262357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ala Sum" < 1310622449 681447 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice, didn't know about that < 1310622452 924386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conor McBride: always the best? < 1310622453 642814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes.) < 1310622458 11258 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does look very nice < 1310622497 884975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make Ant easy with Eclipse --http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/tutorials/os-ecl-easyant/ < 1310622501 595478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote have become < 1310622503 322583 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :498) elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for! < 1310622514 217887 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I /think/, however, you could work this into the type system somehow < 1310622514 380362 :cal153!~cal@c-67-160-238-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310622522 168760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is 9 pages lol < 1310622523 906372 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps I should write a paper on it, or do those exist? < 1310622535 772797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Probably :-P < 1310622538 804433 :cal153!~cal@c-67-160-238-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1310622555 982720 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Where is a good repo of Haskell papers < 1310622593 40435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Research_papers ? < 1310622597 471016 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1310622602 657899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should basically just read anything McBride has ever written and be done with it. < 1310622626 466638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But really, a blog post would accomplish at least as much as far as whatever idea you have goes. < 1310622674 712843 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure < 1310622683 974548 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I can do one better with a paper < 1310622693 848994 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I actually go and explain detailed semantics, etc. < 1310622699 746135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said "sure", then immediately contradicted yourself :) < 1310622710 491401 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, fine then < 1310622711 983179 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1310622713 333365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put anything you can put in a paper in a blog post :P < 1310622732 178913 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no one wants a multipage blog post < 1310622734 500444 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not quite getting what ala Sum would do
< 1310622740 211680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I do. < 1310622756 406886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: This is Haskell, we expect multipage blog posts :) < 1310622766 590673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure most of Conal's posts count as multi-page. < 1310622791 766185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of ezyang's oto. < 1310622793 597417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too. < 1310622940 730505 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, would that "getSum $ mconcat $ map Sum [1..10]" example be written as "ala Sum (\_ -> mconcat)", or what? < 1310622967 911297 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, "ala Sum (\_->mconcat) [1..10]" < 1310623031 172840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd use foldMap, not mconcat < 1310623056 905734 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldMap < 1310623057 637509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `foldMap' < 1310623077 943350 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle foldMap < 1310623078 204650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable foldMap :: (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m < 1310623078 394706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable foldMapDefault :: (Traversable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m < 1310623477 241322 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my approach to multiple instances would be to basically allow the type system to implicitly create a complex type where multiple instances exist, and then disambiguate it later. Operations on the typeclass would be lazy and thus not performed until at least the disambiguation occurs. There's some deep type system magic that it would entail though. < 1310623504 643723 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the issues are actually unresolvable < 1310623528 441829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lazy" is way too vague in this context; what you mean is that it'd add a context like < 1310623535 742099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Num Integer) => Integer -> Integer -> Integer < 1310623548 79323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the disambiguated signature of (+) whenever you used + on Integer arguments, right? < 1310623562 638187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the Integer arguments there are actually the same Integer as that Num instance. < 1310623565 373608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really vague :P < 1310623568 181118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something like < 1310623570 888264 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1310623573 149078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Num t, t ~ Integer) => t -> t -> t < 1310623582 375180 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean something like trying to make mconcat [1..10] be well-defined < 1310623589 845446 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but useless until you perform getSum or getProduct on it < 1310623591 730686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mconcat [1..10] < 1310623592 489964 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t, Enum t, Monoid t) => t < 1310623595 20547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1310623600 935192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat [1..10] < 1310623601 672503 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1310623601 834516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Monoid.Monoid a' < 1310623601 996717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1310623606 852482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat [1..10] :: [Integer] < 1310623607 619229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum [GHC.Integer.Type.Integer]) < 1310623607 781484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from ... < 1310623612 472663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, you can make an instance < 1310623630 945582 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure you can. < 1310623800 176546 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it could be done by making a type which is a supertype of Integer, Sum Integer, and Product Integer, and the underlying machinery would actually make an mconcat instance on that type. The actual evaluation semantics would depend on whether you attempt to use the result as a Sum Integer or a Product Integer; an attempt to use it as an Integer would be illegal < 1310623819 456127 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait that makes no sense < 1310623836 320813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1310623841 135577 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I want the magic type-inference disambiguation of Num < 1310623859 4424 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it works on constants < 1310623990 818570 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :except applying to ambiguous applications of polymorphic functions < 1310624003 447292 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and this is not the same as overloading, I'll note) < 1310624182 505135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want Perl contexts in Haskell. :) < 1310624191 140400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you can define your own contexts. < 1310624242 74300 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310624288 294276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically I want the magic type-inference disambiguation of Num < 1310624288 495047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : as it works on constants < 1310624295 196627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not magic; "9" simply doesn't mean "9::Integer" < 1310624301 222100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means Prelude.fromInteger (9::Integer) < 1310624306 229368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it means Prelude.fromInteger (9::Prelude.Integer) < 1310624310 74180 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310624317 965167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also IsString with recent ghc and -XOverloadedStrings < 1310624320 884198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Data.String < 1310624324 11789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lets you overload string literals too < 1310624336 137 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1310624342 982428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "x" means Data.String.fromString ("x"::Prelude.[] Char) :P < 1310624348 931188 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't work quite like that then < 1310624352 86383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of ad-hoc, but... < 1310624355 665286 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess it could < 1310624356 210748 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310624365 232099 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromString < 1310624365 969816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fromString' < 1310624373 852074 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Data.String.fromString < 1310624374 657806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Data.String.IsString a) => String -> a < 1310624397 42106 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a beautiful thing. < 1310624429 784191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that is pretty much the same thing as read. < 1310624436 722359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh. < 1310624440 603649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no it is not. < 1310624447 413112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t read < 1310624448 206719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Read a) => String -> a < 1310624451 418217 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310624455 240849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT HAS THE SAME TYPE OBVIOUSLY THE SAME FUNCTION OMFGWTFBQBQ < 1310624463 803915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, the argument to fromString is not expected to be a piece of valid Haskell cod.e < 1310624464 698824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :code. < 1310624476 603044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, this is even better. < 1310624486 321427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... < 1310624488 696431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally completely unrelated. < 1310624493 101477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is only for string types like ByteString and Text. < 1310624507 386199 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it means I can take an arbitrary data structure, and implicitly parse a domain-specific language into that data structure. < 1310624514 102612 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromString "hello" :: String < 1310624514 848691 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `fromString' < 1310624516 500305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not what IsString is for. < 1310624520 531452 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Data.String.fromString "hello" :: String < 1310624521 253397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `Data.String.fromString' < 1310624523 374910 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1310624524 310564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: k. < 1310624548 168297 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is nothing stopping this usage is there? so... < 1310624567 561275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, there is; my real-world ability to club you if you do that. < 1310624571 323876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not expect me to back down on this. < 1310624610 127846 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the harm in taking a risk here... < 1310624655 7315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's obviously a language extension that needs ridiculous exploiting. < 1310624679 340428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi, I know someone who thinks it's a good idea to use -XOverloadedStrings so that strings can act as a DSL for any data structure whatsoever. please give me appropriate threats to use in response. thanks < 1310624690 296354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell is on the case < 1310624730 619793 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally he also likes perl < 1310624733 550121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "go write perl" seems like an appropriate dismissal < 1310624735 660415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: craet < 1310624743 266652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :caret. < 1310624749 134901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1310624829 531108 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so I think this is doable within the type system, but not with the existing language constructs < 1310624859 415831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's way too ad-hoc for me to support it ;D < 1310624888 872842 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: since it requires a transparent supertype < 1310624896 454806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has no supertyping :P < 1310624901 305916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, subtyping. < 1310624905 341716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you are using "supertype" correctly. < 1310624906 950336 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not explicitly < 1310624914 478008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean: data type with one type argument. < 1310624917 540660 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1310624928 434001 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean "type whose set of values is a superset of the other's" < 1310624937 995703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, Haskell does not have those at all. < 1310624943 53132 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it does < 1310624944 987730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1310624946 671992 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see nothing wrong with my idea. < 1310624958 762772 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it is an excellent abuse of a wonderful language extension. < 1310624967 685987 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's because Perl has removed your sense of taste. < 1310624976 884541 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what type is fromInteger < 1310624980 920252 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sorry < 1310624989 840731 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1310624998 926476 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you know what I meant the first time) < 1310625016 91841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but it has given me a newfound appreciate of convenience. :) < 1310625021 201152 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*appreciation < 1310625036 661992 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying < 1310625043 284068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: < 1310625043 763519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t 0 < 1310625044 554513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t) => t < 1310625045 262411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't lived until you've died. < 1310625055 76500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just like the type of < 1310625060 310599 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool well-designed macros are like convenience except elegant < 1310625062 609939 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1310625065 892675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (fromInteger (0::Integer) +) < 1310625066 642510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1310625067 543591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is that. < 1310625074 315742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not subtyping at all, just syntactic sugar. < 1310625076 795177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you define < 1310625077 906769 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: We're talking about a language that enforces a variant of Hungarian notation. Except more confusing. < 1310625085 541956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Integer = Neg Nat | Zero | OnePlus Nat < 1310625088 34503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Nat = Z | S Nat < 1310625089 195216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1310625095 100107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 === fromInteger Zero < 1310625103 594119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? nothing that even looks like subtyping < 1310625112 890541 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :template haskell sounds more pleasant than abusing overloaded strings < 1310625122 243510 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me < 1310625126 65491 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm not even sure if that's the right way to describe sigils. < 1310625135 628590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, there is a very shallow form of subtyping; every type has _|_ < 1310625138 828718 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: At the very least, Template Haskell is *intended for that*. < 1310625145 988590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: typeclasses are kind of like subtyping, but only if you look at them wonky :) < 1310625156 318183 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, every type has bottom < 1310625210 127145 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the fuss about? It is completely harmless to use OverloadedStrings to my own advantage. < 1310625224 114428 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Every type that has an instance of Read also has the type of read < 1310625226 707767 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, in live coding, it would reduce the amount of typing required to do something. < 1310625227 728276 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm crying < 1310625239 792453 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: itwould increase the crying < 1310625243 474587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: category error: types don't... have types. < 1310625247 30870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rephrase thx < 1310625251 568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pedantic? yup, but so is this discussion :P) < 1310625257 168770 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *value < 1310625260 928404 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: just use quasiquotation or something actually meant for what you want to do < 1310625266 114594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's overloading, not subtyping < 1310625271 440602 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you know about template haskell, right? < 1310625281 257545 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1310625283 136162 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1310625291 90640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: why is the intent of a feature important when the actual utility of the feature is completely exposed for a certain use? < 1310625306 50190 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead < 1310625308 251038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really want to ban CakeProphet from using haskell < 1310625334 200261 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :send him to #agda < 1310625334 722691 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and yes I know about it. < 1310625348 916945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did he do < 1310625349 801800 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know about quasiquotation specifically < 1310625362 532243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bad things. < 1310625363 728512 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything, the intent is a completely meaningless assertion. Call me a language anarchist, I guess. :P < 1310625369 532182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, such as? < 1310625373 121897 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perlist < 1310625386 806586 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wow are you serious < 1310625388 557751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has nothing to do with Perl... < 1310625398 766869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bad < 1310625407 920634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i guess we really do need coq < 1310625416 821315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually _cannot_ trust some people to respect non-codified laws. < 1310625424 118384 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was abusing Python's featured for unintended purposes before he ever learned Perl.
< 1310625433 737700 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*features < 1310625435 769077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a bad person < 1310625438 776323 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guido is crying too < 1310625440 167168 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense. < 1310625452 154140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he wants to use -XOverloadedStrings to use string literals as arbitrary DSLs < 1310625462 350744 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm merely apathetic to the designers concerns. < 1310625465 975123 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because quasiquotation is uncool < 1310625476 914520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance IsString (IO ()) where fromString = compileAndRunWithGHC < 1310625477 968350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whoa < 1310625478 878447 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "Apathetic to design", more like. < 1310625483 431697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = "print ()" < 1310625487 109284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does -XOverloadedStrings do now again? < 1310625492 613792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: < 1310625495 207003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src IsString < 1310625495 395728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. < 1310625496 941629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1310625499 9027 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: k we're both wrong < 1310625502 303224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: class IsString a where fromString :: String -> a < 1310625507 668427 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when they haven't implemented a means to restrict the usage to the one they intended. It is purely vapor... < 1310625508 792534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "a" == fromString ("a"::String) < 1310625513 467510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eeeer whoa < 1310625516 447085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just like integer literals are overloaded < 1310625519 207428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's for ByteString + Text < 1310625519 396026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrrr* < 1310625523 469159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ other similar packages < 1310625524 848421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with it < 1310625526 262789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nice < 1310625527 158614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you let CakeProphet near it < 1310625531 474955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see < 1310625540 220691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah I can imagine where that is heading < 1310625542 14539 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time I read a bug report involving someone using it to embed XML < 1310625544 60686 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a mess < 1310625546 801800 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I got the relation backwards < 1310625550 732722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fits into perl though. But not haskell < 1310625555 520106 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You're the kind of person who would use undefined behavior in C because it works with your compiler. < 1310625565 60235 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: no, that's different. < 1310625577 759540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: the difference is that the language spec forbids that :P < 1310625598 943039 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has actual negative consequences. < 1310625614 309867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :being clubbed in the head is an actual negative consequence. < 1310625615 964471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please remember this. < 1310625619 828538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can find out where y oulive. < 1310625629 348864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I can sell you an iron helmet < 1310625634 357477 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Assume that the next person who will maintain your code is a serial murderer who knows where you live. < 1310625646 130655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are (it's me) < 1310625648 321541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone maintain my code? < 1310625650 360595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is silly. < 1310625655 826608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can club you < 1310625658 807202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be concerned with things that aren't going to happen. < 1310625682 84684 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serial murderer. Who knows where you live. < 1310625684 123416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ooh what will be required to make you maintain cfunge in the future!? < 1310625689 227339 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pikhq_: hartnell or tennant < 1310625693 26293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: loss of soul < 1310625696 522484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1310625699 77296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hartnellant < 1310625702 969941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: an abomination against nature. < 1310625705 405729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, who's soul? < 1310625706 423271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if anything, you should club whoever designed OverloadedStrings < 1310625707 966386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mine. < 1310625711 122258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, aaah < 1310625711 734717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, they were trusting. < 1310625719 664421 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they ever do that? < 1310625719 826996 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no seriously I have to watch something < 1310625722 36671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO YOU SPLIT ECLIPSE WORKSPACES < 1310625728 399172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: which episodes are under consideration < 1310625768 406224 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :trusting anyone and everyone to use something exactly as you intended is like... writing an IRC bot with a command that executes bash outside of a sandbox. < 1310625771 950363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, i have no ide ahow you're actually meant to use workspaces. < 1310625775 280984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is anyone an eclipse expert. < 1310625789 407638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how the fuck are they meant to prevent what you are trying to do? < 1310625792 506339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a strong AI problem < 1310625798 453501 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: is your fascination with breaking OverloadedStrings just because you want to defy something, or do you just not know about how quasiquotation is what you really want and so much better < 1310625803 500512 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh.. next up for Hartnell is the Aztecs. Next up for Tennant is start of series 3 < 1310625810 53880 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: This is like complaining about the design of unsafePerformIO because someone wants to define foo = unsafePerformIO killAllOfHumanity `seq` undefined < 1310625823 576319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by defining it to be undefined behaviour < 1310625851 100521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Smith and Jones is, as I recall, quite good; The Aztecs sounds like it'll be cringingly sixties-racist < 1310625854 938535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for tennant < 1310625875 404166 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1310625879 447745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no, I'm not fascinated. I just see a possible use case that is pretty simple to implement, but really if I need TH I'll use that instead. < 1310625889 442434 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the one hand, this gets me closer to finishing the new series. on the other hand, it doesn't get me any closer to Baker < 1310625914 769287 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: This is worse than my C lambda macros. < 1310625933 353759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, how so < 1310625937 761990 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why is I am the Doctor only in the 11th doctor episodes < 1310625971 617889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i haven't seen many of them, so i don't know what you're talking about < 1310625983 118878 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's already something in the language that does this, but better and doesn't involve murder! < 1310625993 224369 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the awesome music < 1310626006 523841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: presumably because it wasn't written until then < 1310626009 771702 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but unsafePerformIO doesn't have some arbitrary vaporous restriction attached to it. It is intended to break the rules where appropriate because sometimes it's a good idea. < 1310626026 883578 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1310626033 173903 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does < 1310626043 687401 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe I linked it to you < 1310626070 640878 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not saying OverloadedStrings is a bad idea. I am stating the opposite. < 1310626072 807117 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "arbitrary vaporous restriction" is that application should be referentially transparent < 1310626108 376048 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or however the proper terminology says it < 1310626130 29396 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a perfectly reasonable restriction, in that case. :) < 1310626143 32247 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also yes it was only written by then. But it will probably go away for the twelfth :( < 1310626148 300658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1310626160 438034 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's so unreasonable about overloaded strings being supposed to represent textual data? < 1310626203 103385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOES ANYONE USE ECLIPSE HALP;P < 1310626206 809077 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310626214 490596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you could use it safely for other purposes. < 1310626216 991041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA;LPERGKJ < 1310626226 872745 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because it is the eleventh doctor's action theme < 1310626271 19901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: safely? If there's any sort of parsing going on, you can't check the wellformedness until runtime < 1310626277 574853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, read the docs? < 1310626283 729539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, try google? < 1310626305 381772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: docs don't answer nebulous questions of life < 1310626311 14124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh is smith retirin' < 1310626311 971634 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1310626315 385121 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any parsing that might fail < 1310626315 547485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh google does < 1310626318 790505 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaaah, it pretty much eliminates static guarantees. < 1310626321 718460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no i tried < 1310626334 274518 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well he will eventually < 1310626345 962073 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare template haskell which is good at actually happening at compile time < 1310626352 491900 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well, not safe in that sense, no. < 1310626360 152056 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :safe in the sense that it's a reasonable use... < 1310626363 138715 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310626365 533350 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1310626372 697221 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does reasonable mean < 1310626396 298631 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm, maybe a (Read a) => String -> IO a? < 1310626398 704756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane, useful, not buggy. I don't know. < 1310626416 887937 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeParse :: (Read a) => String -> IO a < 1310626455 124045 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sane; we already covered buggy; usefulness is covered by template haskell (or just making a function to do the parsing for you) < 1310626466 431265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iWantToKillAndMurderCakeProphet :: (Killing a) => a < 1310626469 725446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it denotes exactly the value you want < 1310626472 839568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that specific situation < 1310626477 780817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just define an instance and off you go < 1310626487 79251 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-139.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310626487 79511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to state your intent to kill and murder CakeProphet to use it though < 1310626491 669430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOPEFULLY THIS SHOULD BE AN ADEQUATE DETERRENT < 1310626505 443635 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :intent is meaningless < 1310626513 39026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but but, quasiquotation involves at least three more characters : ' CRYNIIG ( < 1310626518 371611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[f|uck|] < 1310626559 325839 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how would calling the function explicitly eliminate the horrible possibility of a runtime error. < 1310626580 899864 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it doesn't but it eliminates a good bit of the insanity < 1310626592 759635 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good thing < 1310626618 729769 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-228-176.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310626689 547745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=how+do+i+use+eclipse+and+workspaces+and+what+is+it+and+also+should+i+have+just+one+per+like+bukkit+plugin+i+am+writing+or+multiple+in+one+or%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F+FUCK+YOU+SHIT+HEAD+HELP+ME < 1310626691 635406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't working < 1310626703 706174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: help < 1310626735 7721 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=eclipse+workspaces does this help i have no clue help me help you < 1310626752 919225 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what does CakeProphet want to do? Complex value literals via overloaded strings? < 1310626758 511212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310626767 710625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i dont .'t;,mk know < 1310626771 961868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im look at eclipse documentation < 1310626781 111536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im also cry < 1310626811 40517 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why even use that instead of (read "Whatever")? < 1310626824 679888 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, um < 1310626830 206763 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better yet, not use a string < 1310626831 258507 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because read is intended to be Haskell code!! < 1310626831 420788 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: the better question is why even use that instead of template haskell < 1310626836 848880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: becaue CakeProphet is a trrible ipersonje < 1310626854 435605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i just ate my keyboard < 1310626892 236270 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, do you object to 60 * 60 * 24 in code? < 1310626907 322338 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I am thinking it would be useful as a way to describe a rhythm in a library for creating music. < 1310626915 351420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I can just define a function to do that. < 1310626920 788739 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not use overloaded strings. < 1310626928 726204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[rhythm|dumf ook dumf dumf ook|] < 1310626931 734230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TOO LONG" < 1310626934 870050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[r|dumf ook|] < 1310626946 242234 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too long < 1310626946 404434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[r|damf pluk|] --> compile time error < 1310626962 480885 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let runtime handle it < 1310626966 893413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy im crying irl how do i eworksapce < 1310626970 262489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's fine really. I just didn't consider TH as something to consider. < 1310626978 132174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should try actually crying irl < 1310626981 667545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would help ease my suffering < 1310626997 240889 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, listen to Nightmare repeatedly < 1310627008 318460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The welcome page is the first page you see when you first launch eclipse. Its purpose is to introduce you to the product. Welcome content will vary from one Eclipse based product to another, it typically includes an overview of the product and its features, tutorials to guide you through some basic tasks, samples to get you started, etc. < 1310627008 497193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many possible forms of welcome, ranging from simple static text to elaborate extendable multi-page presentations. The Eclipse platform and platform SDK uses a form known as Universal Welcome, which defines a common page structure, allowing several products to share the welcome space. If your product is using the Universal Welcome, you can customize its appearance using the "customize page" button. Products which use universal welcome w < 1310627008 659501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill display a welcome page the first time they are restarted after new features with welcome content are installed and highlight the new welcome content. < 1310627011 343887 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even know what a workspace is whats ecluispe...... < 1310627023 854683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ecluispe sounds like the best ide < 1310627039 888135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=good+java+ide&aq=f&aqi=g-c2g-b1&aql=&oq= < 1310627042 279146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help it still shows eclipse < 1310627045 519801 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is quickly learning all the programs. < 1310627072 135846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imjust looking at my screen crying softly < 1310627076 823090 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=bad+java+ide hth < 1310627089 172975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: NO STUOPD MAKING ME CRY < 1310627090 989769 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that "hope that" helps or "happy to help"? < 1310627091 231869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOPS < 1310627095 953306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java IDE ? Or should I even use Java? - YoYoGames Forums < 1310627133 372036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/26210/my-pet-is-a-public-menace-what-did-i-do-wrong < 1310627139 870912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw this ad on stackoverflow w/o it specifying gaming subreddit < 1310627141 28950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like wow < 1310627146 805652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now im not crying any more < 1310627278 847645 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm thinking it would be a good idea to write a Perl interpreter as an instance of IsString < 1310627307 453296 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO . runperl < 1310627311 952281 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, if by good you mean "insane". Insane isn't bad, of course, just please keep it away from regular projects < 1310627323 110094 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't encourage him < 1310627375 968182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people like IntelliJ IDEA so much < 1310627377 605632 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that at this point CakeProphet is joking < 1310627389 518441 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1310627396 387526 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you responded so seriously < 1310627404 246461 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im confused < 1310627407 96889 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-; < 1310627413 576996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is :-; < 1310627415 319969 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I should add that I intend all of the Perl code used with this interpreter to be referentially transparent. < 1310627418 779379 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1310627431 519900 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ;-; < 1310627439 808380 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....he's 100% serious. And apparently intending to use it in a project? < 1310627441 958642 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i hit the rwong key < 1310627450 474530 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, no, I'm just reading too much into that < 1310627465 216825 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 100% serious. I'm going to have nightmares now. < 1310627486 428365 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Note: I will not literally have nightmares due to this. I think.] < 1310627486 761251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah obviously he's serious < 1310627492 717327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youuve jused good logi =c to that < 1310627498 305321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM GONNA PUNCH A JAVA SHIT FUCK < 1310627501 469452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kjnmfglhjk;tdrmknohgtreghmtrhn < 1310627509 115476 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310627512 184127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION CRYS; EXTENSIVELY;
< 1310627516 999410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is always serious.
< 1310627526 495099 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens Eclipse.
< 1310627536 566908 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a preprocessor or something like that instead of an ide < 1310627536 954643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IntellJ IDEA. I use to have this project with some 2,000 classes and tons of libraries. I swapped from Eclipse to IntellJ, bacause I hated so much the project and I though it was Eclipse fault. The result was Idea was very slow. Workaround? I create a module and use IDEA anyway. :) Idea is awsome!! – OscarRyz Oct 1 '08 at 2:08 < 1310627540 25595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im doint like you < 1310627545 730650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: HOW DO I USE WORKSPACES < 1310627550 424107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO I USE ONE PER ACTUAL LIKE END PRODUCT < 1310627552 777005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR?////////// < 1310627562 8632 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1310627562 929750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM MAKE A BUNCH OF BUKKIT PLUGINS DO I WANT ONE WORKSPACE PER PLUGIN < 1310627567 581150 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :workspace = project < 1310627569 515609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBCAUSE THAT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF WORKSPOCES < 1310627577 736445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: thats clearly bull taken literally < 1310627585 226122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because a Project is something you create inside a workspace < 1310627595 599829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess some big programs are made up of more than one project????? < 1310627595 770634 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, not what I meant. < 1310627602 175184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it feels like < 1310627603 583767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eclipse < 1310627607 391494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wants you to just use one workspace < 1310627611 118835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the default is ~/workspace < 1310627617 339501 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a prbleject < 1310627617 501913 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right. < 1310627618 231921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and switching workspaces is kind of a pain??? < 1310627620 806090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1310627623 162869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the ame time < 1310627626 581694 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you normally only use one workspace. < 1310627629 86145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: aksjdg < 1310627632 60586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the... location of all of your projects. < 1310627637 823613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but thats really weird because like < 1310627642 631078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each plugin should have its own project probably. < 1310627644 824386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you import the same builder into two separate java projects < 1310627649 997301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually renames them < 1310627653 521533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have (number) after < 1310627655 799008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it considers itt a conflict < 1310627656 758240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im like < 1310627659 278406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are completely separate < 1310627660 887479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you doing that < 1310627661 586727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like < 1310627663 704524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the build fails in one < 1310627668 454763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it bothers you whenver you make a change to another plugin < 1310627669 645703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im like < 1310627675 524503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is coupling these projects together way more than i want < 1310627675 713836 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I have never imported a builder. I'm not even sure what that means. < 1310627680 246287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i meant to use two different workspaces???? < 1310627685 575065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well i said other things < 1310627726 402817 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean you're importing a package into two different projects? < 1310627738 495203 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEGWAYS < 1310627762 265821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no < 1310627774 538215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse can't remotely be called an IDE to my opinion. Okay that's exaggerated, I know. It merely reflects my intense agony thanks to eclipse! Whatever you do, it just doesn't work! You always need to fight with it to make it do things the right way. During that time, you're not developing code which is what you're supposed to do, right? eclipse and maven integration: unreliable! Eclipse and ivy integration: unreliable. WTP: buggy buggy buggy! Ec < 1310627774 770700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lipse and wstl validation: buggy! It complains about not finding URL's out of the blue even though they do exist, and a few days later, without having changed them, it suddenly does find them etc etc. I Could write a frakking book about it. To answer your question: NO ECLIPSE IS NOT EVEN CLOSE THE BEST IDE!!! IntelliJ is supposed to be MUCH better! < 1310627798 131276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does java < 1310627804 713965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION weep
< 1310627814 601321 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you need an IDE again? < 1310627820 3419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because java < 1310627822 121864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks < 1310627881 524751 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a "builder" in Eclipse-land is either; but I'd probably still at least try to put multiple plugins in the same workspace as long as there's at least something that could be shared. I wouldn't put any "serious" completely unrelated projects to the same workspace though. < 1310627896 972132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres nothing that will be shared pretty much < 1310627903 192611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a builder is like... < 1310627906 221692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you build your project with ant < 1310627908 179752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have an ant builder < 1310627911 908922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and theres the built in Java Builder < 1310627913 125012 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I believe you merge workspaces by closing Eclipse, merging the two directories, and opening Eclipse again. < 1310627915 850182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :each project has a bunch of builders < 1310627919 420979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no id want to split eclipse < 1310627951 788053 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can see that; but I've just been using Ant without any "builders". I mean, you can run the tasks from a build.xml just like that. < 1310627960 845362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's not automatic < 1310627987 128411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sorry, you're probably want some kind of IDE to handle that for you. < 1310627995 907071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um i mean i want to split workspaces < 1310628003 678312 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I only use the ant thing to make .jars and other sort of "releases", I don't see why that should happen automatically. < 1310628018 507945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I need jars every single change because that's how bukkit plugins are packaged < 1310628029 851100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can't test without the jar being created, at all < 1310628033 737680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as far as I know Eclipse only uses one workspace at a time... < 1310628059 33887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff < 1310628063 202560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to make a workspace into two workspaces < 1310628065 668373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i put too mcuh in one < 1310628088 108348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make two directories, but I don't think you can work with both workpaces at the same time. < 1310628103 327203 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :be productive make a language that compiles to java..... < 1310628104 134777 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's still just one more click to run the ant task. Presumably you need to do something to reload the plugin in Bukkit too; amortized in that it's not much. < 1310628109 990257 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to get rid of boilerplate < 1310628122 698665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i dont want to. < 1310628128 36060 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds much more pleasant than using an ide < 1310628133 749220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i thought an ide was meant to save me work < 1310628135 219844 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then file > switch workspaces > Other.. < 1310628140 396067 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ides are hell < 1310628142 888731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I WANT TO SPLIT A WORKSPACE < 1310628145 440776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god's sake < 1310628147 809948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not hard to understand < 1310628154 988191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: man mv < 1310628159 876861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs < 1310628164 121274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has metadata files with references to projects < 1310628169 635021 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha ides < 1310628170 647869 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1310628180 705459 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "cp -a workspace anotherWorkspace"; then delete half of one, switch to the other, delete the other half? < 1310628186 193412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gross, but fine < 1310628200 669152 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then clean up the metadata? < 1310628215 990289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :find would probably be good for that. < 1310628228 679504 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleting things, that is. < 1310628284 290132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the builder thing, I don't really know; I wouldn't want to run my horrible ant packaging mess after *every* change, just when I'm ready to test it, so I'd keep it non-automatic anyway. < 1310628288 160234 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you probably just want to use sh from now on instead of Eclipse... < 1310628296 264103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Horrible mess = single task to create a jar < 1310628306 561473 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan NICK :Lymee < 1310628315 655874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: WHAT IDE DO YOU US < 1310628316 118680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :E < 1310628353 370083 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Still, it feels stupid to build a .jar every time a single file changes. But that's probably just me. < 1310628369 9345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It builds the Java files whenever a file changes; why not build the .jar too? < 1310628378 440568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, every time I save, I'm going to alt-tab, /reload, and test it; why add more steps? < 1310628382 196953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could make it automatically /reload, I would < 1310628432 95079 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be confusing Eclipse with something that does everything slightly tedious for you. < 1310628454 747106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called automation, yes, and it's what a computer is for. < 1310628470 802312 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right. < 1310628488 534518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it isn't possible. I'm just Eclipse probably isn't going to do that for you. < 1310628490 751285 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310628495 61149 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just saying < 1310628502 190241 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1310628513 766711 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to have to make changes to multiple files before a "thing" is ready to test, possibly because of the all-classes-in-separate-files. But anyway, I really suppose it's just my peculiarities why I don't want it to automatically keep updating the .jar file. < 1310628514 563692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1310628537 531599 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'd feel differently if it was clever enough to actually update it instead of throwing it out and rebuilding it completely. < 1310628570 850309 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does everyone think of Numberwang? < 1310628573 198659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also hate how you have to re-import a builder every time it changes for the changes to take effect, sigh. < 1310628574 386976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1310628579 726189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just make the single build.xml build all the projects. < 1310628590 515898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though that's kind of gross. < 1310628602 635837 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes programming is like surgery. < 1310628604 315655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought you didn't know how to use Ant any other way than incrementally :-P < 1310628612 742067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What; kind of gross? < 1310628615 25542 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1310628624 944122 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of gross? < 1310628656 177445 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..the kind that makes elliott not want to do something? I don't know. < 1310628665 679534 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was in the "compiling Java" context. :p < 1310628717 158180 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t if' < 1310628717 869832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `if'' < 1310628734 743631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the web it sounds like a builder can be "interested in" multiple projects, so having a single all-plugins builder might be possible to automatate properly. < 1310628749 888060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\c a b -> if c then a else b) < 1310628750 76518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if' < 1310628754 774466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right; that seems like it'd have a lot of duplicated code with Ant though < 1310628756 439388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. one per project. < 1310628787 38730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it's not standard, pl is just telling you to define that function. < 1310628801 441579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle if' < 1310628801 662139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1310628804 741846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1310628808 623953 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It sounds like it should be possible to re-use a single task but change some properties between the invocation of it. < 1310628828 445551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Meh, possibly. It really feels like Eclipse wants me to use one workspace per project if I'm going to bring the BIG GUNS of Ant in. < 1310628830 939075 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean like a function? < 1310628846 872404 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With different stuff put in? < 1310628850 874889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: this is Ant, it lacks such civilised concepts. < 1310628866 813094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh what, is this article kidding me or does the ant builder stuff not actually have compile-on-svae. < 1310628868 234103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate java. < 1310628887 478025 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :svae < 1310628888 715811 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Having a separate buildfile for each plugin sounds like a lot of duplicated Ant code too, except duplicated in separate files, not in one file. Unless you go into pulling stuff in from some common file, and so on. < 1310628899 623072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they all have the same build.xml < 1310628902 753550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just store it in a "common" project < 1310628907 592930 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let if' c a b = if (c a b) then a else b in zipWith (if' (>)) [1,3,7,2,45,7,2,4,2,234,4,1,4,-4] [7,3,7,23,5,213,1,5,2356,35,24,21] < 1310628908 350237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [7,3,7,23,45,213,2,5,2356,234,24,21] < 1310628951 381828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really if' as pl defines it, it's more like a generalization of max and min... < 1310629032 68640 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's an task which runs a target from the same build.xml with some defined parameters; that way you could have a single ... and then one-line per plugin. But again I don't know about hooking the Ant builder to the auto-build system. < 1310629047 269593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh this is all so gross. < 1310629052 324648 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that running Ant's awfully slow (more than one second) anyway. < 1310629093 64583 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\f a b -> g (f a b) a b) < 1310629093 311710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip id . (ap .) . (flip . (g .) =<<) < 1310629165 87523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: help <-- ? < 1310629173 86668 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let if' c a b = if c then a else b; compareWith = flip flip id . (ap .) . (flip . (if' .) =<<) in compareWith (==) [1,3,7,2,45,7,2,4,2,234,4,1,4,-4] [7,3,7,23,5,213,1,5,2356,35,24,21] < 1310629174 664418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [7,3,7,23,5,213,1,5,2356,35,24,21] < 1310629278 374993 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Bool -> a < 1310629278 708294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception assert :: Bool -> a -> a < 1310629278 896823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException assert :: Bool -> a -> a < 1310629279 59143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base assert :: Bool -> a -> a < 1310629286 700655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think bukkit uses maven instead < 1310629290 858670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks about as bad < 1310629310 884626 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, unfortunately using other peoples stuff can get ugly. < 1310629383 703214 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310629387 39522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ISTR that running Ant's awfully slow (more than one second) anyway. < 1310629389 453150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1310629393 726858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah i am tempted to use maven myself < 1310629397 236588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea for stupid esolang: generic brainfuck variant. Basically you feed a file with string->command mappings for brainfuck and a program to be translated. < 1310629417 914464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310629422 427719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually brilliant < 1310629427 860107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meta-turing-complete, too! < 1310629438 465397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait what? < 1310629444 784479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :meta-turing-complete? < 1310629469 938959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just a simple lookup table to translate, say, ook or whatever, into brainfuck, and then it is executed < 1310629472 610143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh < 1310629485 147030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Meta_Turing-complete < 1310629509 209388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh tehz < 1310629510 166418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310629538 671323 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm in the slow process of specifying a regular expression based language that would basically be a superset of that. < 1310629548 599749 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mapping file is the program string, the program to translate is the input string. < 1310629549 553772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :many languages are subsets of that < 1310629553 9020 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes. < 1310629556 981446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*supersets < 1310629567 559913 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also subsets, I guess. < 1310629583 628910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was " that's actually brilliant" a joke too? I presume so < 1310629596 192856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310629598 551647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hilarious < 1310629618 885608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I lost my wiki account, you can put it up on the wiki and attribute it to me < 1310629634 967519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i'll actually spec it so its BY EHIRD WITH INSPIRATION FROM VORPAL < 1310629637 721035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MINOR INSPIRATION < 1310629639 177028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(REALLY MINOR) < 1310629642 336385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((LIKE, HE SNEEZED)) < 1310629644 32224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1310629644 863274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((AT THE TIME))) < 1310629651 432436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll define it more < 1310629655 556483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, file format: < 1310629656 961025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ignore Vorpal < 1310629662 144446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CANT FUCKING HEAR YOU < 1310629666 344777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how does maven work thx < 1310629671 236383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1310629673 444600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1310629689 756685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by newline < 1310629699 897140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maven.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html HWICH DOES I USE < 1310629702 388426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is all there is to it < 1310629713 113586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you should define it like this... < 1310629715 951956 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's a brainfuck equivalent creation tool? < 1310629735 662810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, basically yes < 1310629737 453766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, :D < 1310629747 492962 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :("string to be used" -> "bf code")* < 1310629756 201591 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by a newline, or.. not < 1310629758 806921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, why that format? < 1310629759 942618 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the best syntax for it < 1310629763 943640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is the best. < 1310629766 845086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1310629779 42674 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then it will be a subset of a language I am working on. :) < 1310629788 85254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, not a valid reason < 1310629795 642453 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the best reason.. < 1310629808 340441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest string := <4 byte with length of string> < 1310629808 522537 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it would be possible to make a language using that syntax that's barely like brainfuck at all < 1310629822 147615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the file is made up with pairs of strings < 1310629824 784816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of* < 1310629837 88921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be < 1310629842 137228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/string/bf code/ < 1310629845 223651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then it's a subset of /// < 1310629849 760291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1310629857 527349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, bf code can have comments < 1310629859 962410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then it's literally /// < 1310629878 706532 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-139.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Brainfuck code must have matched [] < 1310629894 843822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh the interpreter needs two inputs: language definition and program-to-translate < 1310629912 598188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but < 1310629916 792335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define loop equivalents with this < 1310629916 954582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm we need to be rather advanced to do bitfuck, so that it out of the scope < 1310629917 116930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1310629998 575782 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it could output an interpreter, that would be good < 1310630025 537009 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I might define ->* in a prelude-esque file that is equivalent to (... -> ...)* < 1310630103 160298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, hm that could work yeah < 1310630110 758552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone used Maven with Eclipse, I have literally become an insane. < 1310630130 457936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't look at me. I don't use eclipse at all < 1310630177 646540 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1310630211 105856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Lymee. < 1310630235 287189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why < 1310630301 349393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because she didn't tell me what IDE she uses for Bukkit development which would obviously completely solve my problems by way of expertosity. < 1310630307 539956 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so I have encountered a problem... < 1310630323 350932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can define global substition in terms of single substition and *.. < 1310630341 141078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless single substition consumes all input up to the point of substition... < 1310630345 61342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bad. < 1310630382 997488 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add some sort of multiplication thing < 1310630395 850052 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is kind of what * is. < 1310630411 993 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay < 1310630418 690001 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add some sort of wildcard thing < 1310630467 567820 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so everything has a string result, numeric result, and a success or failure value. pattern* repeats pattern zero or more times until it fails. The numeric result of * is the addition of the numeric results of each subpattern invocation, and the string result is the concatenation of the subpattern's string results. < 1310630495 523604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> is the substition pattern. Originally I intended to make it zero-width, meaning it doesn't consume any input. < 1310630527 35652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it doesn't consume input (i.e. "move forward" in the input string), then each invocation of -> within a * will start at the beginning of the input string. < 1310630541 784525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is inefficient and will lead to strange things happening.. < 1310630555 525125 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible infinite loops and such, which is generally not good. < 1310630596 57202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if I make -> work so that it consumes all input up to the point of substition, then that means that using -> by itself will almost never happen. I will have to always enclose within a backtrack operator. < 1310630631 985670 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think I should define them seperately, as much as I don't want to... < 1310630643 454683 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a -> and a ->* < 1310630666 75555 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ->* not being defined in terms of -> < 1310630705 783413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just gonna wait until Lymee appearss. :p < 1310630743 193839 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find this exceptionally lame, as the idea is that you should be able to use general-purpose combinators to do complex things with basic expressions. < 1310630806 307273 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the meantime you should help me with this. :P < 1310630808 946532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310630839 869398 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you always have good ideas for these types of problems... < 1310630870 943266 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't define -> without the backtrack operator? < 1310630897 594683 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saying make -> inherently zero-width, right? < 1310630946 649634 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what's going on, I'm just trying to say things so something happens < 1310630946 812244 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1310630952 739401 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1310630972 21290 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so basically I want to define global substition in terms of single substition (->) and * < 1310630998 981053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to do that I need to make -> not be zero-width.. < 1310631022 673121 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it's zero-width then things like ('a' -> 'ab')* will loop infinitely. < 1310631058 637412 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could lock text that's been substituted in this cycle < 1310631075 405488 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I either need to change the semantic model, or change -> so that it is not zero-width but instead consumes input, which is lame because then there will be backtrack operations everywhere. < 1310631088 853072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: rename -> to => and make it not zero-width < 1310631098 105351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make a->b an alias for backtrack(a=>b) < 1310631112 881989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a possibility. < 1310631122 329035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the obvious possibility. < 1310631124 217749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1310631134 503882 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but couldn't I create some hackish semantic model? < 1310631135 622276 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310631152 360402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicit shenanigans. < 1310631193 683931 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would prefer --> to =>, or something. < 1310631200 3430 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I am using => for something else. :) < 1310631259 197928 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> is a kind of variable modifier thing. The left hand side is a variable name and the right hand side is a pattern. The pattern is evaluated with the string result of the variable as the input string. < 1310631304 175557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the pattern modifies the contents of the variable. it's basically defined in terms of another operator that I haven't named yet. < 1310631330 625616 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sure this makes perfect sense to everyone. < 1310631391 456625 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :~> looks like a good name for it. left-hand sides result string is used as the input string for the right-hand pattern. < 1310631432 107785 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seeing what the Numberwang program 0! 1! does < 1310631441 698156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the a => b := (a = (a ~> b)) < 1310631444 296606 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1310631457 663948 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, it's into its second Numberwang < 1310631479 209941 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am finding the name Numberwang somewhat hilarious. < 1310631521 85247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjOZtWZ56lc < 1310631576 89014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what the hell is this. < 1310631589 959321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sincere and legitimate British institution throughout the ages. < 1310631606 914971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r6NY4Kl8Ms < 1310631609 43978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This should be enlightening. < 1310631672 870758 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these laugh track things are unnerving. < 1310631740 802301 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :philosopher and magician Bertrand Russell... < 1310632051 60901 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graaah! I need a numberwang debugger < 1310632054 597091 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a shower < 1310632059 70099 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1310632066 130159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Numberwang! < 1310632067 803560 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :TanebIsNotHere < 1310632270 995353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjOZtWZ56lc <-- like Mornington Crescent right? But even more senseless < 1310632276 448368 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Read a) => String -> Maybe a < 1310632276 763287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.CGI.Protocol maybeRead :: Read a => String -> Maybe a < 1310632276 925618 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.CGI readCookie :: (Read a, MonadCGI m) => String -> m (Maybe a) < 1310632277 87792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.CGI readInput :: (Read a, MonadCGI m) => String -> m (Maybe a) < 1310632323 418686 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle String -> Bool < 1310632323 780864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.URI isAbsoluteURI :: String -> Bool < 1310632323 943202 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.URI isIPv4address :: String -> Bool < 1310632323 943382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.URI isIPv6address :: String -> Bool < 1310632659 909777 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp numberwang haskell flip when (putStrLn "That's Numberwang!") =<< (any (all isDigit) =<< getContents) < 1310632660 719333 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang installed. < 1310632672 554108 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 22 34 83 < 1310632701 825615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, parse error. < 1310632793 646386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp numberwang < 1310632794 49226 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang deleted. < 1310633217 28347 :TanebIsNotHere!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1310633221 864066 :TanebIsNotHere!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb < 1310633295 203145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he;lo < 1310633464 56705 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle f (a -> f b) -> f a -> f b < 1310633464 567163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1310633464 729361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1310633464 891405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>=) :: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1310633480 355467 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o rly? < 1310633567 752315 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those appear to match < 1310633580 798902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not < 1310633657 682670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, yes they do < 1310633663 349226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, close enough :) < 1310633672 954944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (join .) . (=<<) < 1310633673 719222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a a1. (Monad m) => (a1 -> m (m a)) -> m a1 -> m a < 1310633680 8045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join . (=<<) < 1310633680 776500 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m a) < 1310633680 939923 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `=<<' is applied to too few arguments < 1310633681 102284 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(.)', namely `(=<<)' < 1310633683 875904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1310633696 462931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f x -> f >>= \f' >>=x >>= \x' -> f' x' < 1310633696 662699 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 19): < 1310633696 825009 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected ">" < 1310633696 825229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting operator, pattern or "->" < 1310633706 858108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f x -> f >>= \f' -> x >>= \x' -> f' x' < 1310633707 51443 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. (>>=)) . (>>=) < 1310633710 395394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310633716 86977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hmm < 1310633719 117494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle () < 1310633719 441238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error: < 1310633719 603322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : --count=20 () < 1310633719 765647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1310633720 211143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone do that plz < 1310633807 651694 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (<*>) < 1310633807 857097 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<*>) :: Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1310633871 184307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310633875 376218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (join .) . () < 1310633876 146465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `)' < 1310633877 76753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone do that also. < 1310633886 815448 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (join .) . (<*>) < 1310633887 599929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a a1. (Monad m, Applicative m) => m (a1 -> m a) -> m a1 -> m a < 1310633916 184873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1310633918 566322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now u r the planet < 1310633944 293426 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl (join .) . (<*>) < 1310633944 483269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ d i -> (d <*> i) >>= \ e -> e) < 1310633971 384109 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :......? < 1310633978 174322 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>= id? < 1310633980 584026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1310633981 743474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's join. < 1310633982 476825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join < 1310633983 209736 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a < 1310634000 876641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310634010 176733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah I was just about to ask him something < 1310634416 482293 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl do { f <- when <$> (any isDigit <$> return "22"); f . putStrLn $ "That's numberwang!"} < 1310634416 670249 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 4): < 1310634416 832538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "{" < 1310634416 994727 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or end of input < 1310634424 370557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw... < 1310634528 783640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp numberwang haskell do { f <- when <$> (any isDigit <$> getContents); f . putStrLn $ "That's numberwang!"} < 1310634529 477108 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang installed. < 1310634532 321369 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 22 < 1310634555 472249 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so bad at this it's ridiculous. < 1310634659 906748 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp numberwang haskell do { c <- (any isDigit <$> getContents); when c $ putStrLn "That's numberwang!"} < 1310634660 410626 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​There is already an interpreter for numberwang! < 1310634666 4573 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1310634670 385473 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp numberwang < 1310634670 864161 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang deleted. < 1310634672 133894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp numberwang haskell do { c <- (any isDigit <$> getContents); when c $ putStrLn "That's numberwang!"} < 1310634672 576286 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang installed. < 1310634680 707867 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang I hate you 23 < 1310634699 485615 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 12 < 1310634713 644621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got a parse error... < 1310634733 938069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp ! haskell putStrLn "I really hope this works." < 1310634734 126490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1310634734 457293 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter _ installed. < 1310634736 673151 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! < 1310634738 725329 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!_ < 1310634739 239789 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope this works. < 1310634741 405703 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope this works. < 1310634741 744254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. < 1310634745 445158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no < 1310634747 55119 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! < 1310634749 846154 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope this works. < 1310634784 578279 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could speed it up by using an interpreted language, since it compiles Haskell every use. < 1310634794 108426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp ! < 1310634794 489497 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter _ deleted. < 1310634815 713105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp numberwang < 1310634816 197309 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang deleted. < 1310634936 628780 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp numberwang perl print q(That's numberwang!) if grep /\d/, <> < 1310634937 103048 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang installed. < 1310634939 596623 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 22 < 1310634940 540220 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's numberwang! < 1310634943 978955 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I succumbed... < 1310634972 382592 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang hello < 1310634983 185596 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 12 < 1310634983 813347 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's numberwang! < 1310634992 261400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose a "That's not numberwang!" would be appropriate. < 1310635010 380050 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "Sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable!" < 1310635027 900495 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp numberwang < 1310635028 385586 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang deleted. < 1310635080 251719 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp numberwang perl print (grep /\d/, <>)? q(That's numberwang!) : q(I'm sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable!) < 1310635080 628054 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang installed. < 1310635098 210044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang when is that? < 1310635103 650296 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :o < 1310635105 480677 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 2 < 1310635106 239611 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1310635108 661044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310635138 20631 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you have made an error < 1310635143 370135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I believe so as well. < 1310635153 649294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/iot8b/dear_miners_and_notch_think_bigger/c25jyoh < 1310635156 371266 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp numberwang < 1310635156 904013 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang deleted. < 1310635163 172998 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please please please tell me this person isn't right. < 1310635171 831364 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if so I'll have to shoot every programmer ever. < 1310635202 434824 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp numberwang perl print (grep /\d/, <> ? q(That's numberwang!) : q(I'm sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable!)) < 1310635202 932231 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang installed. < 1310635206 917127 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310635207 311860 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang what is this? < 1310635212 231560 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310635231 68928 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 44 < 1310635252 101152 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp numberwang < 1310635252 603427 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang deleted. < 1310635271 16615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp numberwang perl print (grep (/\d/, <>) ? q(That's numberwang!) : q(I'm sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable!)) < 1310635271 531739 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter numberwang installed. < 1310635275 22528 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 44 < 1310635275 685549 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's numberwang! < 1310635278 732783 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang q < 1310635279 521426 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable! < 1310635300 263243 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang I'll give you a tenner if this is Numberwang < 1310635300 425546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I have a bad habit of not using parentheses on operators... < 1310635300 907543 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable! < 1310635407 2686 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now there's three esolangs called Numberwang < 1310635424 5028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four, although my one doesn't count. < 1310635426 210676 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 12! < 1310635426 865965 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's numberwang! < 1310635437 557717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could have used "" instead of q() but... I'd like to think that I'm making the code more efficient by not interpolating. :) < 1310635454 495605 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 12! 2! 42.4! < 1310635455 94217 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's numberwang! < 1310635500 363571 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Make your version < 1310635518 134898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I want to, but it's not an easy task. < 1310635579 178135 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just say it's imperatively functional and build from there < 1310635610 973552 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does one make a numberwang programming language? < 1310635644 549966 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 1: Have an idea < 1310635659 838338 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, what makes it themed off of numberwang? < 1310635663 221655 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 2: Share idea < 1310635663 384109 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 3: Build on idea < 1310635663 384327 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 4: Publish idea < 1310635663 384435 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 5: ... < 1310635663 384542 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 6: PROPHET! < 1310635683 770263 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1310635693 52843 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like calvinball, but with numbers < 1310635746 694716 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1310635845 323117 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You could've used '', it's literally the same as q(). < 1310635868 122169 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, right, but I used it to escape escaping the ' in the string < 1310635871 457215 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Numberwang has something that's a bit like eval(12!4.4!92!10!49.8!2!2!2!) < 1310635892 11850 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the program 0!1! it's in at least 7 nested ones of those < 1310635953 779904 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :After 14 instructions < 1310635986 392965 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310636092 585473 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if it is Turing-Complete or not < 1310636119 466797 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am interested in defining a language for which the halting problem is solvable, and where programs can halt or not halt. < 1310636127 625766 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the halting problem is solvable for a language if it always halts... < 1310636174 375465 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have all loops by definition infinite < 1310636182 399266 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it has any loops, it does not halt < 1310636185 855444 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, it does < 1310636249 242871 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310636266 262820 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310636301 656566 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear < 1310636302 140506 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction 16 is a successful goto < 1310636314 837355 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: or you could have a finite loop and an infinite loop. The finite loop could not be infinite. < 1310636342 628953 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then there's the problem of conditionals < 1310636351 986543 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it exits after n iterations where n is finite? < 1310636354 815855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you conditionally infinite loop on the input? < 1310636358 830182 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: right. < 1310636396 193067 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this language will be Turing-Complete < 1310636490 131703 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the halting problem would still be solvable with conditionals. < 1310636512 633323 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you would do is execute the program, and when you come across an infinite loop construct then you say the program does not halt < 1310636519 662427 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you reach the end of the program, then it does halt. < 1310636551 991104 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only way to not reach the end of the program would be to use an infinite loop construct. < 1310636563 58019 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1310636601 38832 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1310636649 834371 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there'd be no conditional loop, only a conditional, a repetition loop, and an infinite loop. < 1310636685 674734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it probably isn't possible to implement brainfuck since you have no way to implement [] < 1310636720 431609 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it isn't Turing Complete < 1310636722 594607 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, well, you might be able to compile it... < 1310636737 394209 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, you'd be given lots of money by Cambridge University < 1310636755 913702 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but compiling bf does not make your language turing complete. < 1310636796 620641 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can compile HQ9+ into Brainfuck < 1310636861 972442 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a almost entirely irrelevant question: < 1310636890 378214 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could prove that /any/ Turing complete language cannot have the halting problem solved for it. < 1310636892 700890 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should a goto line number command work with non-integer values? < 1310636921 237680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely by mapping each non-integer value to an integer. < 1310636937 798303 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what a label does essentially. < 1310636942 200054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder if you could prove that /any/ Turing complete language cannot have the halting problem solved for it. <-- hm < 1310636949 733004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, can you explain what you mean < 1310636982 319339 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any Turing-Complete language p, it is impossible to solve the halting problem < 1310636987 211525 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that statement provable? < 1310637009 563228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on if oracle machines can exist surely? < 1310637049 291277 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any program p with input i in Turing-complete language l, it is impossible to solve the halting problem. < 1310637058 219503 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input string is important. < 1310637116 340692 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the halting problem itself only asserts that you can't determine whether all programs and inputs halt or not. < 1310637123 901616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, well you could given a program that consists of only the symbol "halt" say that it halts. < 1310637147 102356 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but it also has to be turing complete. < 1310637154 730550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, or take C, it is trivial to say that #include \nint main(void) { return 0; } halts < 1310637164 817982 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this was why Alan Turing invented his famous machine < 1310637165 18750 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Wikipedia: "Alan Turing proved in 1936 that a general algorithm to solve the halting problem for all possible program-input pairs cannot exist. A key part of the proof was a mathematical definition of a computer and program, what became known as a Turing machine. " < 1310637179 334136 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the idea is that we want to prove that it's impossible for all turing complete languages. If we can't, then it may be possible that a Turing complete language exists for which the halting problem is solvable. < 1310637249 488941 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As any Turing Complete language by definition can be translated into any other < 1310637293 177716 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that we can't tell whether any program for turing complete language p will halt on input i < 1310637335 443810 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, that makes sense. < 1310637378 601730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially the inability to determine whether an arbitrary program halts in a turing complete language is built-in to being turing complete... < 1310637383 212094 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think I need to walk my dog < 1310637383 374477 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye, everyone < 1310637383 374678 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :TanebIsNotHere < 1310637383 374759 :TanebIsNotHere!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :TanebIsAway < 1310637383 374838 :TanebIsAway!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I've dissappeared < 1310637617 210747 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310637769 331287 :TanebIsAway!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310638371 950586 :tswett_!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1310638800 352116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : so essentially the inability to determine whether an arbitrary program halts in a turing complete language is built-in to being turing complete... < 1310638818 27842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc the halting problem is not solvable for some simpler models of execution either < 1310639972 695470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not solvable for any model of execution that allows a self interpreter, basically. < 1310640587 836533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, look up the proof on the Wikipedia article; it's very simple. < 1310641484 425690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Wikipedia doesn't have an article on code golf < 1310641492 906432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead "code golf" redirects to Perl. < 1310641510 188690 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not GolfScript? < 1310641541 168923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think the practice of code golfing might have originated in the Perl community, but it's since become a more general phenomenon < 1310641827 204564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@P=split//,".URRUU\c8R";@d=split//,"\nrekcah xinU / lreP rehtona tsuJ";sub p{ < 1310641827 411645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1310641827 573955 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@p{"r$p","u$p"}=(P,P);pipe"r$p","u$p";++$p;($q*=2)+=$f=!fork;map{$P=$P[$f^ord < 1310641827 574156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :($p{$_})&6];$p{$_}=/ ^$P/ix?$P:close$_}keys%p}p;p;p;p;p;map{$p{$_}=~/^[P.]/&& < 1310641827 736316 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1310641830 689077 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :close$_}%p;wait until$?;map{/^r/&&<$_>}%p;$_=$d[$q];sleep rand(2)if/\S/;print < 1310641961 228316 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :''=~('(?{'.('-)@.)@_*([]@!@/)(@)@-@),@(@@+@)' < 1310641962 75239 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^'][)@]`}`]()`@.@]@%[`}%[@`@!#@%[').',"})') < 1310641964 371905 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1310641977 671133 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even understand how people come up with these. < 1310642137 696284 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, no pack/unpack pair? < 1310642365 827336 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/dist/Acme-EyeDrops/lib/Acme/EyeDrops.pm < 1310642509 630114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @{sub b{[@b=(abs||No,bottle.'s'x!!++$_,of,beer),on,the,wall]}b} < 1310642752 44844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1310642752 514167 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1310642756 124352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it is there < 1310643032 272926 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310643188 312624 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310643705 526295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION drinks cow milk like a baby cow
< 1310643861 70034 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I am a large bipedal furless ape. < 1310643983 791350 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, a mammal's a mammal. < 1310644115 612924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as a string-parsing ape creature, I feel strange about stealing delicious fluids from mama cows. < 1310644139 543789 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much so that I am generating strings about it. :) < 1310644176 491119 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I found that whole string-generation thing hilarious. < 1310644185 674349 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh look, it's generating strings all flustered there!" < 1310644214 621048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's the cow's fault somehow. It always is. < 1310644241 884338 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because their strings do not suggest that they care. < 1310644261 864773 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all "moooo" < 1310644267 620295 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"meeeeh". < 1310644290 246309 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how one of the 18 pictures in the Mammal_Diversity_2011.png main illustration of Wikipedia's "Mammal" article is the meeting of Nixon and Brezhnev. < 1310644336 6957 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diverse indeed. < 1310644367 845502 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a cow: http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/only_when_youre_ready/21.gif < 1310644404 151224 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had a dot-matrix printer rendition of that on my wall as a decoration, not more than 9 years ago.) < 1310644575 604254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1310644587 504479 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Welcome to the cow channel. < 1310644612 783433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moo! < 1310644618 288544 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct! < 1310644627 99004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1310644779 362068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : For some reason I found that whole string-generation thing hilarious. < 1310644837 42816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i am imagining sentient^Wsapient spiders communicating with silk strings < 1310644937 677383 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could form... a SPIDER NETwork! < 1310645152 444995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Step 6: PROPHET! < 1310645159 714637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds dangerous. < 1310645621 808959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:27:50 > let if' c a b = if (c a b) then a else b in zipWith (if' (>)) [1,3,7,2,45,7,2,4,2,234,4,1,4,-4] [7,3,7,23,5,213,1,5,2356,35,24,21] < 1310645625 71956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:27:51 [7,3,7,23,45,213,2,5,2356,234,24,21] < 1310645625 234121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact... < 1310645627 591196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:28:34 not really if' as pl defines it, it's more like a generalization of max and min... < 1310645649 773129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith max [1,3,7,2,45,7,2,4,2,234,4,1,4,-4] [7,3,7,23,5,213,1,5,2356,35,24,21] < 1310645650 548416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [7,3,7,23,45,213,2,5,2356,234,24,21] < 1310645834 357996 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The zipWith Camel, a famous World War 1 era airplane. < 1310646241 259972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote The zipWith Camel, a famous World War 1 era airplane. < 1310646244 910288 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :505) The zipWith Camel, a famous World War 1 era airplane. < 1310646426 8386 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to come up with some sort of add-on, maybe a known function that sounded like "Camel" and a related pun, but failed. < 1310648396 584498 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith (zipWith f) < 1310648397 404648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (Show a, Show b, SimpleReflect.FromExpr c) => [[a]] -> [[b]] -> [[c]] < 1310648448 128603 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith zip < 1310648448 937835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. [[a]] -> [[b]] -> [[(a, b)]] < 1310648452 646510 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else would you zip with? < 1310649058 985245 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith zip3 < 1310649059 747738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. [[a]] -> [[b]] -> [[c] -> [(a, b, c)]] < 1310649062 807708 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reasonable type. < 1310650181 242304 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1310650209 312418 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1310650259 333524 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1920, H. G. Wells referred to the Mediterranean race as the Iberian race. He regarded it as a fourth subrace of the Caucasian race, along with the Aryan, Semitic, and Hamitic subraces. He stated that the main ethnic group that most purely represented the racial stock of the Iberian race was the Basques, and that the Basques were the descendants of the Cro-Magnons. < 1310650848 745194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310651598 964508 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zapWith (zapWith zipWith) < 1310651599 723022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `zapWith' < 1310651599 885104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `zapWith' < 1310651607 705392 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith (zipWith zipWith) < 1310651608 451827 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. [[a -> b -> c]] -> [[[a]]] -> [[[b] -> [c]]] < 1310651755 86633 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310651786 499749 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1310651830 446826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1310651833 28609 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1310652167 833230 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's happening in the world of esoteric programming? < 1310652221 915867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think i just proved DigFill TC, see wiki < 1310652261 71095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about Anarchy again < 1310652318 340390 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchy? < 1310652340 699775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a programming language I'm working on, possibly an esoteric one, I'm not sure (it's near the boundary) < 1310652344 684238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, just thoughts, no code < 1310652364 489503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based on algebraic data types where type constructors can mean different things at different points in the program < 1310652372 501127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a feature that's both insane, and badly missing from Haskell and OCaml < 1310652383 713233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just one of ais523's methods to suppress thinking of fe *hit by falling anvil* < 1310652425 845172 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meta type constructors? < 1310652475 162470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never m *anvil rolls on top of him again* < 1310652513 190488 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite the pesky anvil... < 1310652521 600551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1310652912 266796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that a mezzacotta reference (with an indirect reference behind it)? < 1310652946 702799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not that i recall < 1310652958 918042 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's a mezzacotta reference < 1310652966 211388 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of it to reference < 1310652974 945563 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Turing Oracle of Webcomics < 1310653032 490008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is of course _finding_ the reference. < 1310653228 694600 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310653228 895145 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 QUIT :Changing host < 1310653228 895326 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310653342 950241 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't my German-made French-published game with Italian characters run on my Japanes-designed Chinese-made laptop with a South African OS based on a kernel designed by a Swedish speaking FInn? < 1310653386 424853 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game also has Norwegian and... Argentinian? characters < 1310653409 664233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there's the problem. the chinese currently hate the norwegians. < 1310653434 984049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they _really_ didn't like the last nobel peace prize. < 1310653541 273171 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains < 1310653544 327309 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1310653554 173951 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pressed return compulsively... < 1310653590 129315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :newline is a punctuation mark on IRC < 1310653597 646255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one that several channels discourage people from using < 1310653604 448804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, people tend not to be completely consistent on its meaning < 1310653656 333465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "i despise you so much i'm going to steal your screen real estate despite not really saying much." hth. < 1310653678 724589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels out of character.
< 1310653705 953465 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, Settlers IV doesn't run on Ubuntu on my Toshiba < 1310653722 859139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS is it intended for? < 1310653726 849162 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows < 1310653735 158380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, that was out of character for you < 1310653744 479820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numberwang should clearly just be a stupidly computationally expensive algorithm for generating sequences of numbers. < 1310653761 744173 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could think of a fix, but it's easier just to nick my brother's laptop with Windows < 1310653763 392219 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YOU THINK? < 1310653799 375258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe elliott is taking over my brain. except he does the return thing too... < 1310653851 959510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey turing proved all computation is really just generating sequences of numbers. well, more or less. < 1310653875 781394 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any data can be encoded as a sequences of ones and zeroes < 1310653902 984974 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, depends on how you define 'data', I suppose. < 1310653965 993919 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me a definition that you can't < 1310653988 175984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets the virtual popcorn
< 1310654000 340203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you allow arbitrary reals to be data, you can't. < 1310654000 646648 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just curious < 1310654024 697430 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you encode reals as anything, though? < 1310654042 708927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a real is perfectly encodeable as a sequence of ones and zeroes. it just has to be infinite. < 1310654052 50673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, OK then, P(R). < 1310654076 533421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiendish. < 1310654094 207308 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick Ps on until it gets big enough. < 1310654227 592318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if you define data as something you can extract any part of in finite time, Taneb's point may still stand. < 1310654267 310555 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a really good argument if you said something like "the feeling of happiness" < 1310654276 570637 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's no use now < 1310654286 676866 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pretty... psychopathic < 1310654316 662800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1310654323 182168 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it sociopathic? < 1310654331 798579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :homeopathic < 1310654345 881575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that actually does make sense. < 1310654454 560871 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310654553 883009 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What, homeopathy? < 1310654564 272172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, what you said. < 1310654571 755896 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you'd just gone slightly mad. < 1310654586 75732 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, not gone. < 1310654591 157369 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not slightly < 1310654593 142004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310654595 922160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles for that quote again
< 1310654740 402428 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The next time you decide to stab me in the back, have the guts to do it to my face"? < 1310654754 170870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310654766 169834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people. < 1310654766 332191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad. < 1310654766 332397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alice: How do you know I'm mad? < 1310654766 332506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here. < 1310654767 788000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1310654771 794525 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's stabbing who in the back? < 1310654783 492268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to find a version without line breaks, but i gave up < 1310654788 949585 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jayne Cobb and Captain Mal Reynolds < 1310654792 849078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's any backstabbing going on, I want to be in on it. < 1310654799 196133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god not Firefly. < 1310654874 350253 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be the last Firefly I quote, I promis < 1310654877 452393 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1310655037 972323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does his regular thursday taneb stalking
< 1310655046 634566 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais253 < 1310655049 990083 :ais253!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1310655055 181567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone else has ais253 registered < 1310655061 727205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop registering typos of my name, ais253! < 1310655067 166631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1310655073 360536 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's you? < 1310655078 371439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I know who it is, too < 1310655087 720345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's someone I know from another channel, they must have set that up to troll me < 1310655120 223051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if e has ever been here without us noticing it... < 1310655147 126608 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just got a 416 error on the wiki < 1310655152 914387 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recent Changes page < 1310655175 183577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sometimes gets a bit flaky < 1310655182 346193 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never had one of those before < 1310655186 668164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, the internet is collapsing around you. < 1310655191 205735 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Civilisation is at its end. < 1310655204 502440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads for me < 1310655208 8776 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are actually just chatbots to keep you occupied until you can fulfil your purpose. < 1310655219 578388 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4xx errors are client-side < 1310655220 890195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does 416 even mean? < 1310655230 229523 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Requested Range Not Satisfiable" < 1310655242 110653 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to do with asking for stuff after EOF or something < 1310655353 779264 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the recent changes page < 1310655473 655962 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on < 1310655478 226352 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My purpose? < 1310655493 699925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Destiny < 1310655502 710685 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it come with a sword? < 1310655520 559446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or a spaceship, i'm not sure which. < 1310655536 621439 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, like in Arthur King of Space and Time? < 1310655544 801317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly, a horse and a gun. < 1310655591 768050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you discover it is a laser sword and a space horse, run away as fast as you can. < 1310655642 181635 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep that in mind < 1310655800 674155 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229098133.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1310655805 228784 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229098133.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :eiffel in gmail ads < 1310655836 710907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, on the space horse? < 1310655860 617001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'd not recommend that. at least unless you also have a space suit. < 1310655872 412003 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a terraformed planet < 1310655896 327835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the trouble here, you see, is keeping the horse _on_ the planet < 1310655912 893407 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, what, you mean I ride away on my space horse on a terraformed planet. < 1310656215 297985 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a problem: Is Taneb's Numberwang Turing Complete? < 1310656257 467572 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it is < 1310656265 369410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's numberwang! < 1310656391 343581 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310656463 111685 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℼ < 1310656468 995747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes it a table so he doesn't need to scroll
< 1310656658 97859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm digital root, so there is a fundamental mod 9 operation in most cases < 1310656672 999991 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a subsequent mod 4 < 1310656704 509830 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what precisely is "the value of the current command" in command 2? < 1310656737 796208 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your program was 0, 7, 2, and you were on the 7, it would be 7 < 1310656756 643220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so before any of that summing and moduloing stuff < 1310656782 168318 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1310656801 612945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was a little confused by the "this value" a bit above that, which means something else < 1310656834 393972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and can only be 1-9 afaict) < 1310656858 201438 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the word value to mean three different things < 1310656867 331103 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll change the second to number < 1310657143 499882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this will not be too hard if you make sure all jumps are by multiples of 9, so the step number is always in synch with the position < 1310657220 777846 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have encountered a problem involving my regular expression language I would like to submit to you.. < 1310657247 972139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, i mean hm? < 1310657303 21827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: do step numbers and positions start at 0 or 1? < 1310657325 78739 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1310657339 458942 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so basically the language is composed of patterns, which can also take subpatterns as arguments. A pattern has a string result and a numeric result, which can be based on the string/numeric results of their subpatterns... < 1310657349 348430 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have -> as a substition operator. It takes the first occurence of the left-hand pattern in the input string and replaces it with the string result of the right-hand side. < 1310657383 307189 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to define global substition (s/.../.../g) in terms of ->, as (a -> b)* < 1310657399 690659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where * is similar to * in other regexp languages. < 1310657413 136485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however... < 1310657416 188194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ok so if jumps are ensured to be mod 9, then the adjustment to each command is predictable (mod 9) from position: 0,2,4,6,8,1,3,5,7,0 etc. < 1310657455 112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if -> is zero-width then upon each repetition it will start at the beginning of the input string, which is undesirable because it means patterns like ('a' -> 'ab')* would loop infinitely. < 1310657459 529350 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jumps are mod length of program < 1310657464 34517 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1310657478 23614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: er *0 (mod 9) < 1310657534 449500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the length of the program is _not_ divisible by 9, then you should be able to jump from any position < 1310657539 736229 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if -> consumes the input string after the point of substition, then I can define global substition as * applied to ->, but then.... it consumes the input string that I just made substitions upon, which is generally not desirable. < 1310657557 928999 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd have to explicitly backtrack. < 1310657618 559574 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm just trying to figure out how to make this work... < 1310657639 699453 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310657646 109683 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I need a second method of traversing the input string rather than literally consuming it.. < 1310657662 267996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'm afraid my brain refuses to switch context to your problem < 1310657664 775793 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or different backtracking semantics... or multiple substition operators. < 1310657670 280770 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha, okay. That's fine. < 1310657690 708490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obscenely late in the morning for me to be thinking about this. < 1310657771 345810 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to ditch defining global substition in terms of a repetition of single substition, and just have -> and a separate ->* defined as built-ins. < 1310657838 681787 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott suggested a zero-width version and a consuming version of ->.. but a consuming substition operator seems pointless unless the semantics of the backtracking operator magically preserve side-effects of things when backtracking... < 1310657860 213873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be undesirable in other cases.. < 1310657885 956485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out making a systematically elegant regular expression language is difficult. < 1310658001 671785 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would make everything much more confusing? < 1310658026 60591 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making Numberwang have ternary cells < 1310658061 938606 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, perhaps I could add more contextual return values for expressions. Yes, this sounds fun. < 1310658074 477304 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :string result, numeric result, and NEXT ITERATION RESULT. < 1310658076 144417 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1310658080 74645 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this is a terrible idea. < 1310658109 238058 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ternary isn't terribly confusing, but I don't know how numberwang works so... < 1310658140 819726 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's binary < 1310658171 287585 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :3,6,0, oh hum < 1310658197 287087 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With similar changing commands to one of the BF Minimization things < 1310658209 946662 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what would be awesome about (a -> b)* is that * defines its string result as the concatenation of each iteration of the subpattern, and the numeric result as the addition of the subpattern's numeric results.. < 1310658241 174724 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310658249 505419 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> could return the number of substitions that occurs for the numeric result, which would be either 0 or 1 < 1310658263 611338 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the * would return the total number of substitions... < 1310658280 998919 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is awesome, you see. < 1310658308 862042 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had a crazy idea for making an esolang < 1310658315 454666 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all say stuff, and see what sticks < 1310658350 512703 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory < 1310658419 551096 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an imperative language those are boring if they don't have really good gimmicks < 1310658423 452718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly no one ever tried to sort out that mess :P < 1310658458 942579 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310658471 650097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: positions 2,5 or 8 (mod 9) are ideal jump points for numberwang, as when the step number and command value are all of the same kind, that gives a jump < 1310658493 82586 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1310658500 539630 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this crazy idea < 1310658512 318289 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABCDEF... G < 1310658536 328497 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :G? < 1310658548 351872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Taneb for the heinous crime of abbreviating Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory
< 1310658554 928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -----### < 1310658560 511892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forgot the swatter) < 1310658562 270616 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never abbreviated that < 1310658574 926918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL YOU GOT DANGEROUSLY CLOSE < 1310658607 40249 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I abbreviated Abbreviation Because Crazy Declarative Esoteric Fantasy... Groans < 1310658612 870263 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjudicated blind collaborative design esolang factory garden < 1310658623 212830 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1310658625 578673 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :garden is a good word < 1310658632 850363 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaiden? < 1310658678 980271 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means like a spin-off < 1310658697 326397 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I enjoy your submission the most. :D < 1310658698 467915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i'm miscalculating, because a jump should go to a position _after_ the current one (mod 9) < 1310658712 823122 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an adjudicated blind collaborative design garden of esolang factories < 1310658727 68715 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it a garden of adjudicated blind collaborative design esolang factories < 1310658749 636815 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the garden that is attached to an adjudicated blind collaborative design esolang factory < 1310658939 955554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,4,7, whoops < 1310658964 813972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ok my miscalculation corrected, there actually _aren't_ any perfect jump points < 1310658989 202171 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's possible to jump from anywhere to anywhere, though < 1310659012 612678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it still should work if the length of the program is not 0 (mod 9) < 1310659059 107638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the thing is i'm trying to do this without step numbers getting out of synch < 1310659135 305707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to make it 4 (mod 9) instead, by appending a NOP 1,0,1,0 < 1310659173 259009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, later < 1310659176 395619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1310659176 863652 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1310659252 122810 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the language has only numbers as values < 1310659272 708295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in string contexts, an inverse hash function is applied to the number to get a string. < 1310659284 684920 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hash function is implementation defined. < 1310659308 139545 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All functions take strings < 1310659465 951032 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all numbers are quantum numbers that can be composed of a possibly infinite number of superpositions. The superpositions collapse based on what context the value is used in. For example, in string context the collapse occurs as the concatenation of the inverse hash value of each superimposed number. < 1310659568 359567 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229098133.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shrike.depaul.edu/~mhendri5/CSC394/ConceptDemo/projectManager.html Professor Elliott - 2 l's and 2 t's. < 1310659587 893895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every context there is an anti-context in which an inverse collapsing operation occurs. For every defined context an anti-context must also exist. < 1310659632 988658 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one context that is its own anti-context < 1310659661 123613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, are you working on figuring out ABCDEF? < 1310659679 339783 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we are defining a language collaboratively via logs. :) < 1310659687 200724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am sleep deprived enough to come up with some crazy ideas. < 1310659698 995627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, uh, logs of who and from which time span? < 1310659705 965393 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logs of us, and now < 1310659714 371222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310659750 146495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, Taneb whatever it is, the source code (if such exists) should exist on a hyperbolic surface < 1310659858 444637 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the anti-string context is the union of each superposition in string-context. There is an operator to induce the anti-context of whatever context an expression is in. < 1310659905 850092 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :numeric context is the summation of the superpositions. anti-numeric context is the subtraction of each superposition in left-associative order < 1310659947 914296 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing horrible about any of this. < 1310659950 732923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1310659974 323184 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a context and its anticontext are used in the same function, that function is from thence forth outputs infinity on any input < 1310659991 275186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you discussing hyperbolic surfaces? < 1310660063 203763 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making an esolang < 1310660110 358212 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the null superposition is a special value that is empty. It represents the identity element for whatever context it is being evaluated in. < 1310660155 303513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you trying to make the semantics as complicated as possible? < 1310660159 185931 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1310660217 688314 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All operations are nondeterministic. < 1310660228 750394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In list context the superposition is merely a linked list. This is the natural state of the superposition. The anti-context of this context is identical. < 1310660229 818252 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the rand() function < 1310660230 423237 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to make sure that all eventualities lead to the same outcome. < 1310660244 128515 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which always outputs four < 1310660247 587278 :MigoMipo!~John@2.69.127.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310660287 12192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In boolean context, only the null superposition is false, all other superpositions are true. The anti-context is the logical negation of this. < 1310660353 54881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : In list context the superposition is merely a linked list. This is the natural state of the superposition. The anti-context of this context is identical. <-- shouldn't the anti-context be the reversed list? < 1310660369 334800 :MigoMipo!~John@2.69.127.136 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310660371 461319 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess that would make sense... < 1310660371 681571 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, did you need to paste the last line of chat to reply to it? < 1310660378 548959 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1310660382 159867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it wasn't the last line < 1310660384 827742 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1310660385 936186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1310660405 231315 :MigoMipo!~John@2.69.127.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310660422 574971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it would make sense? Perhaps we can think of something else then < 1310660424 704819 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got Settlers IV working on Ubuntu < 1310660444 399447 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a splash and my CD drive is whirringh < 1310660464 579192 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And flashinh < 1310660475 951984 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can figure out what I mean < 1310660520 233125 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :operators can only be named as numbers. < 1310660538 301429 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Names can only be numbered as operators < 1310660552 272481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even mean < 1310660558 657029 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Brainfuck&curid=961&diff=23689&oldid=23593 uhm, can we just split the "implementations" section to the separate comparison page? it is becoming hard to manage. < 1310660590 636575 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in function context, a superposition acts as the function with the same name. The result is the superposition of each function in the superposition applied to all of the arguments specified. < 1310660607 733318 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The superposition of two superpositions is their concatenation concatenation. < 1310660634 912999 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with columns like "implemented in", "targets", "cell size", "behavior on EOF" etc. < 1310660648 766195 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus an infinite superposition of 1s will apply the function 1 infinitely many times to its arguments. < 1310660681 895063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If I wanted to assign a number to a name (like Vorpal is number 6) I would have to say "Vorpal is +" or something < 1310660687 66310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, how would you write such a superposition in the source? < 1310660694 578185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, ah < 1310660708 947964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just put the bits on your hard drive into quantum entanglement < 1310660712 715337 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: shenanigans. Probably via some repeat function. < 1310660716 484346 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310660719 392932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably recursive. < 1310660725 169936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or that yes < 1310660725 950122 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numbers can only been operated as names < 1310660756 546283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like... a hybrid between Haskell and Perl. :) < 1310660761 675916 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310660766 576588 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And befunge < 1310660783 656909 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there needs to be more two-dimensionality somewhere... < 1310660803 357055 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on a hyperbolic surface, isn't it? < 1310660814 687458 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what that means. < 1310660827 269827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, suggestion: if you write "foo is" without anything after (except statement delimiter such as newline) it should be assigned a default implementation defined value out of the set {-42, 0, 42, 2-5} < 1310660853 61040 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not my language, there's nothing I can do to stop it < 1310660854 878586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so that's the extent of my idea-vomit. I am probably going to sleep now. < 1310660859 597730 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's everybody's language < 1310660863 280056 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1310660883 211231 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only is it two-dimensional, it's non-euclidean < 1310660885 505610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, not sure either. But I guess that mean parallel lines aren't like in an Euclidan geometry < 1310660906 784852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I suggest a hyperbolic geometry (which one: implementation defined) < 1310660985 286822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't even know what that means. < 1310661004 864619 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, hang on < 1310661009 996543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get one by taking a standard triangular tiling and putting seven triangles around a point rather than six. < 1310661010 716642 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>v < 1310661012 717297 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^< < 1310661014 991947 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't an infinite loop < 1310661018 612591 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers are delicious fruit. Thus subtraction is the devouring of a number of fruit from a pool of fruit by the interpreter or object code. Negative fruit is fruit owed and thus accumulates compound interest over time. < 1310661020 505502 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does sort of work < 1310661040 74399 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numbers can fall in any direction < 1310661137 625852 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, BtW, I assume you're referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order-5_square_tiling as the tiling used. < 1310661154 377256 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works < 1310661188 34788 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is it just me or is that projection not a Poincare disc?) < 1310661197 691217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The lines near the centre seem too straight.) < 1310661237 477380 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, never mind. < 1310661328 669557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1310661535 949316 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative numbers accumulate continuous compound interest, with an interest rate that is implementation defined. The interest rate must be available to programs as a built-in constant. < 1310661631 211985 :MigoMipo!~John@2.69.127.136 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310661671 157603 :foocraft!~ewanas@78.101.63.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310661753 632277 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :local usury laws wherever the program is being run provide a cap for the interest rate. < 1310661786 221052 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...basically, negative numbers get more negative proportional to their magnitude < 1310661792 240768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310661815 245991 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can get an exponentially large number by subtracting one, nopping for a while, and then absing < 1310661820 898367 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds useful < 1310661825 556077 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with respect to local legislature on the matter. < 1310661829 276654 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310661848 167208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : local usury laws wherever the program is being run provide a cap for the interest rate. < 1310661857 369839 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's impossible to use in the Islamic world? < 1310661884 595094 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible for a program that is destitute and performing nothing but nops to collect unemployment? < 1310661946 723390 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, is it? < 1310661955 369201 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible for a program with a large fruit debt to go bankrupt? < 1310661977 914741 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I would presume that in those countries it would either be simple interest or no interest at all. < 1310661983 624558 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(knowing that its credit score will weaken and it will be unable to store negative values until it performs well for a while) < 1310662050 857015 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be possible for it to store a positive value (over some minimum value) in a savings register and collect interest on it? < 1310662069 767199 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are complex financial and legal matters. You will need to contact your program's lawyer and accountant on the matters. < 1310662102 414790 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sounds resonable. < 1310662159 256076 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps also a mutual fund with net loss/earnings based on regional stock quotes. < 1310662266 429826 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABCDEFG, a context, quantum, hyperbolic, numeric, and finance oriented language. < 1310662318 150794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it's not going to be very helpful for anything hyperbolic, TbH. < 1310662343 523612 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, wait, if it has Befunge-style mutable program space it can construct geometrical things. < 1310662496 686803 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might be possible, but perhaps not globally. < 1310662507 952522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it a fungeoid constricts the syntax to single characters. < 1310662524 533446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but incorporated a 2D code grid as part of the language would be interesting. < 1310662530 254479 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incorporating < 1310662577 246753 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :code that manipulates quantum superpositions of fruit and fruit-loans, no doubt. < 1310662604 50485 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: if it's finance oriented, all output should be as advertising. thus, it must be paid for and associated with some commodity. the value of that commodity will rise depending on the investment in advertising. < 1310662642 833199 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fruit is a good commodity. < 1310662650 712861 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is delicious. < 1310662651 899116 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :all input should be as market research, and may not be possible for some users depending on whether they are in the target demographic < 1310662660 923168 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the preferred input method will be multiople choice surveys < 1310662670 973321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1310662681 152113 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lol'd < 1310662740 351957 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the nice thing about surveys is that sometimes they include "select all that apply" questions, thus making it possible to input superpositions) < 1310662885 234742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : making it a fungeoid constricts the syntax to single characters. <-- unicode is large < 1310662900 839706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, anyway you could construct source lines on the surface or something < 1310662924 19572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, oh and... hm... perhaps the gravity of the program deforms the geometry? < 1310662930 758044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sufficiently large programs < 1310663062 450350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, there is only one free text input per program, which is so annoying to get at, that most programs will promptly discard it? < 1310663140 436849 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rather, the user can provide as much input as s/he likes, but the program pays by the character to read it < 1310663158 928210 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229098133.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have n-character-wide commands too < 1310663160 496614 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually, this cost is passed on to the user < 1310663164 756127 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229098133.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with that < 1310663269 789477 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, actually i wanted something like this: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Tokigun/Brainfuck_Implementations < 1310663527 955429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, sure, but it's good to have them out of the main article before experimenting. < 1310663556 102757 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. that's exactly why i set it up in my user page. < 1310665720 410775 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310665728 753129 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1310665981 386251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1310665982 388329 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laughing at where the esolang I suggested has gone < 1310665994 469428 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A context, quantum, hyperbolic, numeric, and finance oriented language? < 1310666443 820837 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310666637 363232 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229098133.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310666903 358975 :MigoMipo!~John@2.69.127.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310666998 507027 :MigoMipo!~John@2.69.127.136 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310667032 515274 :MigoMipo!~John@2.69.127.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310668275 506167 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310670177 465117 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1310670538 697868 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet, are you working on figuring out ABCDEF? < 1310670557 941650 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ABCDEFG. there is no such thing as a language abbreviated ABCDEF. < 1310670569 454502 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION readies the swatter in case someone disagrees.
< 1310670585 858598 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually abbreviated ABCDEF...G < 1310670592 2467 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ellipsis is important < 1310670593 465151 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1310670624 9077 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it can be replaced by a newline in some contexts < 1310670658 404730 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310670683 773504 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i realized my former idea of perfect jump points in numberwang works again if the program has an initial 2!, to put things into the correct phase initially < 1310670696 578467 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, brilliant < 1310670855 381395 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we can put the "real" instructions at spots that are position 2 (mod 9), and pad between with 1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0 nops (although one might manage to put something other than a nop in there too) < 1310670899 389307 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 0 and 1 commands can be achieved easily anywhere < 1310670940 580289 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1310671058 643591 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is ... the thing that ABCDEF is not an abbreviation for? < 1310671076 967662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inactive < 1310671082 129789 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusing < 1310671086 514123 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-contradicting < 1310671119 826496 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest in peace abcdef < 1310671129 411360 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats monqy -----###
< 1310671131 217151 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan? < 1310671143 563011 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as I expected < 1310671169 795154 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it was inevitable < 1310671190 688985 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest in peace that thing for which abcdef is not an abbreviation, too < 1310671400 681584 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is also possible to put jumps at positions 5 and 8 (mod 9), although they can only jump to other instructions with consistent phase (lest you make the phase inconsistent :P) < 1310671469 733137 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310671530 682430 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those jumps can be to next instruction, so you can insert nops that way < 1310671541 723988 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the next < 1310671554 904311 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is too easy to program in < 1310671562 794419 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1310671617 448047 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it looks obvious that you can automatically translate a Wang B-machine to this now < 1310671629 341594 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence it is Turing Complete < 1310671710 91224 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1310671945 60140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it meant to be sub-TC? < 1310671947 987658 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually it's not exactly the same, numberwang flips bits while the B-machine only sets them (and the W-machine also clears) < 1310671964 496487 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be really hard to prove < 1310671992 477885 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing really difficult there i guess < 1310672011 509311 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's practically usable < 1310672034 441772 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oozlybub and Murphy is a good example of hard to prove < 1310672141 162733 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but in a somewhat unsatisfactory way < 1310672171 280992 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any satisfactory examples < 1310672230 280942 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not off the top of my head < 1310672234 463799 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piet? < 1310672243 861960 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no one has attempted my Malbolge Unshackled yet afaik :P < 1310672250 567511 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not me, for sure) < 1310672429 665000 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I complicate this? < 1310672462 114587 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want its computational class to be "probably Turing Complete..." < 1310672512 27146 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All programs much reach Numberwang so many times? < 1310672533 582583 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does numberwang do < 1310672555 342360 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Numberwang < 1310672561 275354 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1310672570 49706 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok < 1310672570 687531 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12! 4.4! 92! 10! 49.8! 2! 2! 2! < 1310672577 701982 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends when it happend < 1310672580 378677 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*happens < 1310672583 932020 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310672598 440753 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it necessarily have any effects? < 1310672610 846119 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an almost certainty < 1310672652 731649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310672673 247554 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I have no idea what the program 3! does < 1310672790 297498 :MigoMipo!~John@2.69.127.136 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310672882 401735 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is the digital root of 4.4 or 49.8 defined? < 1310672903 168419 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, but the most common algorithm doesn't work < 1310672910 244015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 and 3 respectively < 1310672915 492544 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1310672941 102139 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiply by 10 until n % 1=0 < 1310672943 57433 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it only affects the interpretation of instruction 2, right? < 1310672949 455963 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1310672974 887202 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what on the earth is the command at the fractional index? :p < 1310672992 984409 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given the current cell is marked) < 1310672998 929987 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't worked that out yet < 1310673052 346747 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess some kind of interpolation will be fine... < 1310673058 141662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you do the * 10 until n % 1 = 0 < 1310673120 911642 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you go to the offset 4.2 which is between the command 92 and 10, then it is interpreted as the command 26.4 < 1310673160 578696 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works, too! < 1310673163 214087 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the initial commands are always integers multiplied with 10^-k (k integer) < 1310673171 705384 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no problem with recurring decimals etc. < 1310673205 302610 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All commands are k/(2^j)*(5^l) < 1310673228 985464 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is k'/10^max(j,l) for some k'. :p < 1310673247 847275 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, < 1310673258 371576 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no don't mind. < 1310673270 837859 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my expression parser seems to be broken < 1310673385 499566 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310673579 279747 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your suggestion is now canon < 1310673601 718172 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1310673607 447858 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1310673608 131369 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know what encoding this page is in? http://www.john-a-harper.com/tubes201/ < 1310673640 781150 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eyes fizzie
< 1310673652 232684 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8? < 1310673665 21817 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML 3.2? < 1310673685 741669 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIF? < 1310673686 343560 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think HTML 3.2 is an encoding < 1310673702 941609 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, any ideas? < 1310673709 268015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's UTF-8 < 1310673734 287353 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With HTML 3.2 markup and images as GIFs < 1310673735 610902 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you search for the text "is a constant for a given electrode geometry. In other words, the actual plate voltage is divided by" ? < 1310673752 797119 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does a \mu character show up? < 1310673756 921868 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : nice < 1310673761 687979 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1310673763 20500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the "broken" characters seem to be UTF-8 "missing character" symbols. < 1310673791 130067 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :� ...encoding...:( < 1310673820 701876 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like U+FFFD in UTF-8. < 1310673836 669264 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the byte sequence EF BF BD (which is UTF-8 for the U+FFFD) for both the degree signs and the supposedly-µ. < 1310673852 779303 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not something you could reverse back to anything sensible. < 1310674036 946902 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is an element? < 1310674042 540307 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking at the source of this < 1310674046 863978 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google has a quick-view of a PDF version, second hit for me for the "How Vacuum Tubes Really Work" (in quotes) search. < 1310674066 364580 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah i decided to change everything by hand < 1310674068 440942 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess someone sent non-UTF-8 to a program that was expecting UTF-8, and the unknown characters were turned into that < 1310674077 341229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the and tags are used to denote insertations and deletions in a document. < 1310674171 860412 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oh < 1310674225 227784 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1310674262 453807 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make a better website with Wine Notepad and a packet of crisps! < 1310674271 961076 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By better, I mean better HTML < 1310674277 312698 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not better content < 1310674296 312916 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the preview has all the right characters < 1310674324 677364 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace your mu characters with μ < 1310674371 283954 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :&moo;. < 1310674401 998006 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i will < 1310674409 789820 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the degree one? ° right? < 1310674434 753288 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :°, yeah < 1310674440 873981 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The semicolon is important < 1310675053 667053 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realize, but it's part of sgml, not the entity < 1310675066 880970 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough i have had to use two different encodings for the mu character < 1310675075 465845 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1310675076 76762 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :&mu and µ for different contexts < 1310675081 91782 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1310675102 548455 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu is used for the prefix "micro" in units as well as for a variable called "mu" < 1310675115 451453 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "Vari-mu", "low-mu", "high-mu" < 1310675132 190004 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does a zen cow say? < 1310675134 584322 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mu! < 1310675221 890159 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did the kitten stay on the hot tin roof longer than the adult cat? < 1310675227 99800 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a higher mu! < 1310675297 871611 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that made no sense < 1310675341 18911 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I have ice cream, so I take it away from you. < 1310675352 164718 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow I have no ice cream, so I give it to you. < 1310675359 485383 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an ice cream koan < 1310675870 231273 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i had lots of beer < 1310675873 969637 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a koanhead < 1310675916 282278 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to finally have working webernauts. < 1310676064 511496 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1310676416 472632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310676787 522955 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310676934 969502 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310677435 535626 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310677458 837383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that he just clicked on a YouTube video called "Mitchell & Webb Mac Adverts" on the assumption it would be a parody.
< 1310677502 530321 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4fe19.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310677594 346471 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls someone posted an animated gif of a mac advert on reddit the other day
< 1310677630 84591 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a norwegian online newspaper < 1310678191 546183 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310678255 41496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310678583 432468 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is wrong, elliott joined and the channel is _still_ silent < 1310678592 382772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im logreading -minecraft first is why < 1310678597 544051 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1310678600 986673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310678610 587492 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1310678614 600585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroing < 1310678658 867440 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwrong < 1310678963 362918 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310679319 224635 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION figures -minecraft must have been _really_ active today.
< 1310679339 167701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no im just scrolling dwon to find ten am < 1310679344 724325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i left < 1310679347 115664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :down < 1310679397 459114 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses ^F for that
< 1310679419 546526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur an f < 1310679500 146704 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your angle? < 1310679512 680021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:06:23: it's just one of ais523's methods to suppress thinking of fe *hit by falling anvil* < 1310679512 845703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:05: Meta type constructors? < 1310679513 7988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:07:55: i never m *anvil rolls on top of him again* < 1310679513 170577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310679515 96629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pet anvil < 1310679532 95224 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww :D < 1310679554 168174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:22:22: Why can't my German-made French-published game with Italian characters run on my Japanes-designed Chinese-made laptop with a South African OS based on a kernel designed by a Swedish speaking FInn? < 1310679554 426794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:23:06: The game also has Norwegian and... Argentinian? characters < 1310679554 588995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which south african os? < 1310679558 342024 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hihihi here i come oerjie" "AAAAAAARGH!" < 1310679564 200219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjie < 1310679582 372832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:27:36: it means "i despise you so much i'm going to steal your screen real estate despite not really saying much." hth. < 1310679583 535957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why < 1310679584 249082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't < 1310679584 738132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1310679586 64557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :love < 1310679587 387120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME???????????? < 1310679617 709010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:28:25: But yeah, Settlers IV doesn't run on Ubuntu on my Toshiba < 1310679617 937511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu is South African only by very dubious measures :-P < 1310679619 939993 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing personal, you're just evil newline-spamming scum, is all. < 1310679649 18968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:34:02: a real is perfectly encodeable as a sequence of ones and zeroes. it just has to be infinite. < 1310679649 184035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:34:12: oerjan, OK then, P(R). < 1310679649 346408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:34:36: fiendish. < 1310679649 346581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:34:54: Just stick Ps on until it gets big enough. < 1310679650 739928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310679678 421154 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think domesticated anvils will be made of light metals and have some form of truss-like interior instead of being solid metal < 1310679707 508693 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just not that cuddly when they still weigh a ton or two (or a half) < 1310679766 419680 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Surface < 1310679776 740872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITA: Madk doesn't understand fundamental polygons. < 1310679784 740528 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww now i want a pet anvil :D < 1310679800 136866 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anvils are not pets! < 1310679803 119685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am going to revert your [[Brainfuck implementations]] change < 1310679809 414041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1310679814 769816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had CONSENSUS. < 1310679821 754823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you moved every single implementation, including the /original/ < 1310679822 274039 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are fierce creatures who hate puns < 1310679822 436225 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pet anvils are pets < 1310679834 840072 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :really it would be kind of sad, it moves by jumping so everyone always yells at it if it moves too much because it makes this huge noise :( < 1310679845 805975 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, consider simply moving that into the article, rather than moving the whole thing. < 1310679858 247250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it _is_ an implementation regardless. < 1310679865 262530 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when it tries to come greet its master, it will just often step on his feet and get yelled at again :( < 1310679928 352842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 July 2011 < 1310679928 607529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Brainfuck implementations‎; 21:44 . . (-8,084) . . Ehird (Talk | contribs) (...better organisation than the current section. I will do a proper move later today or tomorrow.) < 1310679928 770027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Brainfuck‎; 21:44 . . (+8,024) . . Ehird (Talk | contribs) (Revert; while I support the separation of implementations into a separate article, ''notable'' implementations (e.g. original distribution, esotope) should stay. And any such page should have...) < 1310679933 743388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (read backwards) < 1310679963 883404 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: tokigun is already working on a better implementation listing < 1310679973 603641 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310679980 173231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: citation? < 1310679982 45913 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not got very far, mind you < 1310679984 164568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1310679987 858839 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had 100 million moneys < 1310679990 25673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that format much worse, I'm afraid < 1310679997 342164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since we don't have wikipedia's table sorting JS < 1310680007 554730 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could buy a pet anvil AND pillow shoes for it < 1310680222 374835 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh it's all fun and games until one day you want to meet a pun and then *BAM* < 1310680247 682879 :sidhe!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310680268 47230 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1310680268 721436 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION smells an elf
< 1310680280 687763 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-219.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310680307 283869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name sidhe rings a bell < 1310680316 495374 :sidhe!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dresden files < 1310680370 912344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1310680380 488355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean from here. < 1310680402 771900 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310680432 921814 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you the chairman of the "former pet anvil owners who've had enough" club or something? < 1310680437 701559 :sidhe!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just on ##nomic for a few seconds due to forgetting the name of this channel < 1310680452 483494 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one < 1310680453 96096 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, i never met any other survivors < 1310680454 87050 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hundred < 1310680455 141748 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :million < 1310680456 376811 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :moneys < 1310680463 137452 :sidhe!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i've never been here before using this nick. < 1310680478 248351 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's not my pet < 1310680516 681167 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-139.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1310680525 170705 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-132.vpn.utu.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310680556 103726 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310680683 100140 :sidhe!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com PART :#esoteric < 1310680708 725865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: OK SERIOUSLY HOW DOES MAVEN EVEN WORK. < 1310680727 609440 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maven? isn't that some java crap? < 1310680732 547086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1310680746 759733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lymee is our resident expert on java crap. < 1310680751 534861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i gather it's less crap than ant, though < 1310680752 250569 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you really want to know how it works? < 1310680759 518556 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Maven works with magic. < 1310680759 987847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i need to use it, yes, so i can avoid using ant. < 1310680764 95792 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic is bad < 1310680770 404300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: do you have a better suggestion < 1310680770 911569 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1310680773 435271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1310680776 176088 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I let Eclipse deal with maven. < 1310680785 883798 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "loldunno < 1310680786 509523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but there's two different plugins and no indication of which one to use :-( < 1310680792 127430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like fascism. < 1310680838 75938 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the impression that maven does things that ant users find useful, and it uses xml < 1310680847 356959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: http://maven.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html Which one ;_; < 1310680939 915079 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1310680982 882504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly you want me to suffer. < 1310680983 752870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries.
< 1310680996 565616 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's Apache. < 1310681004 533912 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162048.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1310681042 382950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one do you have installed, I just want something that works :P < 1310681049 926105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ant has completely melted down under its own shittiness. < 1310681063 595467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think Maven is meant to be a bit faster than Ant, which is nice because Ant is dog slow. < 1310681178 981666 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/temporary%20shit/anvie.png < 1310681182 954610 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maven Integration. < 1310681207 430406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: Thanks. < 1310681215 594387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: awwwwww < 1310681250 684463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just have to figure out how to write Maven files :( < 1310681252 337703 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you drew that? < 1310681260 796513 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it a photograph? < 1310681274 282558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :photograph < 1310681315 215877 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i photographed it using my mspaint brand camera < 1310681389 146404 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A TRAP < 1310681430 585695 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's soooooo cute when it bounces around :D < 1310681468 92776 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i was awesome at animating shit, hope you're imagining what i'm imagining < 1310681501 227968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, it looks like my eclipse version is too old to use m2e < 1310681510 123439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Lymee for probably not using Linux < 1310681521 86098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to blame every Bukkit plugin development problem I have on Lymee < 1310681529 833862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes things super easy < 1310681545 731487 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: bouncy bouncy :D < 1310681575 521406 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the antidog in the sense that it loves to scratch you with its horn < 1310681602 354818 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it can actually move that thing a bit) < 1310681619 678319 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: also think of the floor repair bills < 1310681639 801122 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it wiggles and waggles it like a dog does with its tail, although the movement is slightly slower and much smaller < 1310681711 941742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Eclipse software development kit is the development environment used to develop plug-ins for the Eclipse platform." < 1310681718 569595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse is like the most incestuous piece of software imaginable. < 1310681728 937588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its main distribution is a tool to extend itself. < 1310681778 642102 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Lymee does use Linux. < 1310681796 847186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAH < 1310681821 225861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having problems; the only conceivable way anyone else could not be having problems is if they are inferior to me. < 1310681876 169861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit what the hell is maven < 1310681912 523636 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a monster raven < 1310681993 895634 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww that's so cute :D < 1310682010 863616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like using martian software, if martians were idiots < 1310682033 320392 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion, oklofok thinks everything that can kill you is cute < 1310682729 983814 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/temporary%20shit/monsterravie.png < 1310682741 858523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my fursona < 1310682824 653453 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm updating a bit < 1310682862 483189 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :realized i had two ground levels < 1310682903 708583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thats good < 1310682914 386607 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer the new one < 1310682936 170182 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is disappointed that http://www.vjn.fi/permanent%20shit/ doesn't exist
< 1310682992 430064 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we emptied vjn.fi, and moved stuff to our new domain, but missed the deadline for cancelling the webhotel thingie we had for it so now we'll just have an empty domain standing there for about a year < 1310683021 563989 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it turns out i love drawing shit < 1310683029 242889 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why have i never drawn anything :\ < 1310683051 39244 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're no good at it? < 1310683090 238352 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, did you see the pics? < 1310683098 93851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: if I steal CommandBook's pom.xml and modify it to my own nefarious purposes, do you promise not to tell? < 1310683115 827018 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1310683131 989100 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1310683142 902390 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've ever seen a cuter monster raven < 1310683156 798952 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a more terrifying anvil < 1310683557 660670 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310683573 757999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow OK Maven is literally the slowest thing. < 1310683578 479616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... downloading every dependency each time? < 1310683589 310003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the least Zepto I have ever felt. < 1310683664 407403 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you still eclipsimng < 1310683722 642641 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if it is... < 1310683773 790861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Maven? < 1310683803 652698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: It isn't. < 1310683804 253770 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst build system evern < 1310683805 523199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Confusing. < 1310683814 765958 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[sic] < 1310683821 462980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mavern. < 1310683824 80691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Yes. < 1310683862 833192 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why haven't you just made something to replace ides yet < 1310683889 629682 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is an ide actually required for whatever you're doing is it a bukkit plugin I don't even know what that is < 1310683945 411753 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310683999 109076 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can also check you my picture of maven < 1310684045 10110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, did. < 1310684048 11447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was best. < 1310684080 438981 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how paint adds a smoothing touch around every line so that the filler fucks up < 1310684100 473312 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it would have been hard to have a wing otherwise, but still sorta ugly < 1310684130 453866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet Maven and Hella Oklopol. < 1310684190 101700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1310684200 206527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maven has to download maven-clean-plugin just to clean the repository out. < 1310684202 996623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful. < 1310684332 824324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14/07/11 23:57:54 BST: [WARN] Some problems were encountered while building the effective model for net.pyralspite:hostilechunks:jar:0.1 < 1310684332 995521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14/07/11 23:57:54 BST: [WARN] 'build.plugins.plugin.version' for org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-compiler-plugin is missing. @ line 49, column 12 < 1310684333 157895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14/07/11 23:57:54 BST: [WARN] 'build.plugins.plugin.version' for org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jar-plugin is missing. @ line 58, column 12 < 1310684333 158085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14/07/11 23:57:54 BST: [WARN] The expression ${artifactId} is deprecated. Please use ${project.artifactId} instead. < 1310684335 994857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLARRRRRRRRRR < 1310684404 786877 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310684710 710695 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1310684719 830402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: wat < 1310684729 680309 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : 14/07/11 23:57:54 BST: [WARN] 'build.plugins.plugin.version' for org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-compiler-plugin is missing. @ line 49, column 12 < 1310684735 894385 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boggles* < 1310684739 650978 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS THIS A PLUGIN!? < 1310684741 266768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you have to tell Maven the exact versions of every Maven component you want. < 1310684744 587607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so great. < 1310684753 73313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: Like I said, "mvn clean" actually downloaded maven-clean-plugin. < 1310684757 282614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -r: a plugin < 1310684779 350294 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enterprisey, eh? < 1310684796 95202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm this close to replacing my build system with a shell script and getting Eclipse to run it. < 1310684801 106039 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand that level of modularization, but not not including it by default. < 1310684806 989281 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :including core modules* < 1310684842 753849 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... < 1310684861 459018 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do that, the only reason you'd remove core modules is for slimmed down bundled releases. < 1310684938 826957 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/iph88/mathematics_questions_over_on_raskscience_are_met/ < 1310684950 135370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r/math vs. r/AskScience: place your bets! < 1310684962 833258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why you should use the Maven Ant Tasks instead of Maven or Ivy < 1310684963 86715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MARCH 8, 2009 BY PETER THOMAS 21 COMMENTS < 1310685003 700026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, incidentally, is it possible to have a non-Euclidean space where there is a circle constant which works like it does in Euclidean space? < 1310685044 492836 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1310685047 408970 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since radius:circumference clearly isn't constant in an elliptical space, and ISTR it's not constant in hyperbolic space either. < 1310685054 159207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: hmm, does Maven kill Eclipse's automatic error-highlighting for you, too? < 1310685084 476055 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually a kind of interesting question < 1310685109 247778 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, havn't used it with anything I actively modified a lot. < 1310685141 563547 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what i recall is that in both hyperbolic and elliptic geometries the limit is the usual pi when you let the radius approach zero < 1310685162 496373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sure, but it's not the case for *all* circles. < 1310685186 478051 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but i mean neither gives the possibility of anything _other_ than pi being special < 1310685279 541340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, OK, but is it possible to have a space where all circles have radius:circumference = k, k != pi? < 1310685293 45392 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm if you do it around poles in the complex plane don't you get a multiple of pi... although that's just at that point < 1310685328 466774 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, i know way too little about lesser mathematics to even *try* to construct such a space < 1310685333 856933 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry non-discrete mathematics < 1310685348 682979 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i don't know the answer either < 1310685355 277265 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a circle? < 1310685363 546594 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would certainly love to know the exact rules < 1310685369 299773 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we talking 2d manifold? < 1310685383 477360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, that's what I had in mind. < 1310685411 767726 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then some metric for it k < 1310685417 709976 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Isn't it something like "a set of points equidistant from a given point in a given 2d product space" or some such? < 1310685427 937812 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a 2d product space? < 1310685431 676818 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1310685431 949609 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect it must always be pi in the limit for a riemannian manifold < 1310685434 900790 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nono < 1310685441 416932 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly < 1310685447 118787 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a product space < 1310685469 925682 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a riemannian manifold? < 1310685488 974356 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is what's a circumference in general? < 1310685513 822968 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the 1-dimensional measure of the radius 1 sphere < 1310685532 282166 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming its hausdorff dimension is 1 < 1310685543 402184 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you define something like that? < 1310685561 772578 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310685562 835088 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :riemannian manifolds are obvious spaces in which you can at least define a circumference (because you have a metric and differentiation) < 1310685576 699023 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310685588 875679 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hausdorff measure can be supplied with a dimension right < 1310685593 815242 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you i don't know that much about them < 1310685609 413117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a rational number is a quotient of two integers. 10 is not an integer." < 1310685634 564268 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc the hausdorff measure of a set is always 0 or infinite except for at most one dimension < 1310685649 586617 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how can you define circumference based on a metric and differentiation? < 1310685656 383081 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a concept of angle? < 1310685666 555584 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Riemannian metric makes it possible to define various geometric notions on a Riemannian manifold, such as angles, lengths of curves, areas (or volumes), curvature, gradients of functions and divergence of vector fields. < 1310685675 617738 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemannian_manifold) < 1310685709 463621 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" iirc the hausdorff measure of a set is always 0 or infinite except for at most one dimension" yes and circumferences should have dimension 1 and their length as the measure in the euclidean case < 1310685719 91965 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1310685721 193644 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :spheres < 1310685724 208424 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*circles < 1310685752 305784 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't see how that still necessarily lets you measure the length of a circle < 1310685821 294843 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you measure the length of a differentiable curve < 1310685834 880576 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... what curve do you measure? < 1310685856 780905 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a set < 1310685863 22737 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of points at a certain distance < 1310685906 42272 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess i don't know for sure whether that _does_ form a curve < 1310685939 337504 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each point there is an r such that you get a curve out of the r-sphere or smaller i think < 1310685939 882084 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm sure someone who actually knew this stuff could answer < 1310685950 228833 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be < 1310685957 835612 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the metric is compatible with the topology and you need to have R^2 in some neighborhood < 1310685978 513664 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get something that's homeomorphic to the usual sphere for small enough radius (?) < 1310685980 886909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In what year was your Gandi account created?" -- worst possible security question < 1310685993 287815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes exactly /twelve/ tries to beat at most :D < 1310685998 624858 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh i don't know shit about this stuff < 1310685999 971319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, eleven < 1310686132 651667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.gandi.net/static/contracts/en/whois/pdf/ObfuscatedWhois_1_1.pdf < 1310686136 928178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone read this for me, thnx < 1310686157 115293 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm actually i'm pretty sure a circle is a curve < 1310686162 554940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1310686163 23881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resell < 1310686163 263324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesno < 1310686163 425689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our contract with ICANN requires that we sell our WHOIS database to any party that requests it. However, you have the right to refuse the sending of your personal data in such an event. Only click on YES and proceed to the next form if you accept that your personal data may be sold. < 1310686169 858613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean that it won't let me go past if i don't say yes :D < 1310686198 332094 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any manifold with a metric compatible with the topology, i think it's a path < 1310686213 586530 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310686234 738557 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually dunno, blergh < 1310686263 391632 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey btw recall that really interesting thing we proved the other day? < 1310686268 221374 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we generalized it yesterday! < 1310686272 665215 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we know it for all chains < 1310686302 609129 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it seems it's not true for anything else by a simple counterexample) < 1310686311 411175 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1310686318 544947 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310686333 554575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a chain < 1310686411 924401 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it just becomes a question of homomorphism from S^n to S where S is a lattice. for chains these are just projection to one coordinate + homomorphism < 1310686445 445889 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a nontrivial homo from D^2 to D for the diamond D < 1310686448 313283 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310686472 977705 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*finding homomorphisms < 1310686603 371839 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i'm thinking is if you have a diamond (you do if it's not a chain) and take like a minimal one in some sense, then you might be able to homo the whole S^2 into that one diamond < 1310686643 292511 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well haven't given it thought really but sounds like it should be doable, solving the problem completely, in a sense < 1310686708 91611 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as everyone here prolly already knows a subshift that's also a group is easily shown to be an SFT < 1310686723 367987 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more recent result is that it is in fact a full shift (or conjugate to one at least) < 1310686746 130790 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps there is something similar for lattices < 1310686802 720275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what's my telephone number < 1310686817 556592 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-trivial binary subshift that's a lattice always contains the all-0 and all-1 points (proof: it's obvious), and if there's a 0-finite or 1-finite point then it's the full shift < 1310686823 371241 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dunno. < 1310686849 731259 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's all we know so far < 1310686863 718288 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have a hunch it's really simple as well < 1310686937 600998 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, take a point and shift it a bit, and and or it with itself, if you get something trivial then the point is periodic and otherwise maybe you get something interesting < 1310687066 126096 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't actually know if it has to be periodic if what i said happens)