< 1310947264 790104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: killed to death < 1310947290 223551 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310947554 107007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310948126 582000 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found an interesting reddit comment on reverse engineering and (somewhat) haskell by copumpkin: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/iqz0l/reverse_engineering_of_compiled_haskell/c264g5b < 1310948149 648103 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1310948153 455305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalking.jpg < 1310948174 295750 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i only noticed it was by copumpkin after i'd starting reading it < 1310948179 170741 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*started < 1310948180 864016 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1310948186 475279 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, stalking.png < 1310948257 147359 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have re-read the panels around the end of act 4 < 1310948302 446298 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes it obvious that it's refereing to it, but I'm still lost < 1310948326 537866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1310948337 392257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wrt Homestuck update < 1310948358 651602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it < 1310948392 609079 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd still be curious to feed hex-rays a ghc-compiled binary < 1310948394 829004 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity I don't have hex-rays < 1310948411 22651 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet even function boundary analysis in basic IDA would fail, though < 1310948446 993532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, elliott is going to mock you about this, but he was completely lost by the ectobiology stuff when I read it with him. < 1310948447 405444 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found myself wanting to use a PHI command in C, although of course C doesn't have that. < 1310948456 440832 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he was reading it for the second time. < 1310948790 666050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait, why the heck is that the highest rated comment....? < 1310948800 499428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this confirms it, YouTube commenting has now become a parody of itself < 1310948822 779751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1310948833 749341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been suspecting it for a while, but not had solid proof < 1310948903 508348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you _do_ know what the top voted reddit post ever is, don't you? < 1310948916 771437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1310948933 134893 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://www.reddit.com/r/all/top/?sort=top&t=all :) < 1310948952 374523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310948957 701742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the icon next to it mean? < 1310948993 231165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is the person who made it famous/special in any way that might lead to a post of theirs getting singled out? < 1310949019 655610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye < 1310949020 72630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1310949025 627622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you know qgyh2? < 1310949037 174835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was the most famous user of old reddit < 1310949044 352978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, I don't really use reddit < 1310949049 375241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read proggit for the comments, but that's about it < 1310949053 684193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read homepage, for instance < 1310949095 214790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was this before or after the test post? < 1310949142 287196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: much before < 1310949169 189142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, so it was the power user crap Reddit prides itself on not having? < 1310949220 271705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure what that icon means, i _thought_ it meant a picture was missing but that's a self post so cannot have any... < 1310949249 533617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, qg was cool < 1310949275 632673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well sure, but the fact that it was upvoted wasn't a random thing. < 1310949276 327570 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no looking at the frontpage the missing picture icon is an alien with a camera and a question mark < 1310949283 30121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's something i've never seen before, probably added just for that post < 1310949283 228178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe that's why it's missing < 1310949289 505172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well sure, but come on, it's a one-off < 1310949376 515784 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but there other self posts which have no icon < 1310949446 548924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/static/self_default2.png < 1310949448 45049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1310949453 823871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe using a question mark changes it:) < 1310949455 352772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it :) < 1310949698 935109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310949795 63984 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i finally found one deep down in the frontpage which has it http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/is1s7/extralivesorg_is_trying_to_raise_8500_to_build_a/ < 1310949851 553325 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moreover this one has the A+ icon for a self comment as well < 1310949874 343930 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i've found a couple that have neither < 1310949884 771835 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aa+ < 1310949918 200487 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well maybe there's some obscure setting which does it < 1310950772 696335 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you interested in reversing? < 1310950977 81533 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very deeply, no < 1310950987 266941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1310950992 521650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1310951241 142774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1310951885 961237 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310951886 377522 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1310951886 575557 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310951916 103888 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310951984 739961 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1310952865 345583 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953086 189192 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310953215 57162 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953413 152952 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310953581 255098 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953606 932596 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310953694 237108 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953694 514028 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1310953694 712113 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953831 85198 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1310954196 185202 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229130116.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310954331 92883 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310954609 194195 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310954646 520007 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write a patch for XChat < 1310954657 306199 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To stop its notifications from telling me that I disconnected < 1310954671 267040 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, limit it to only once in x amount of time. < 1310954839 863137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop disconnecting :P < 1310954929 842282 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129159.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310955002 658434 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if XChat scripts have access to that stuff < 1310955724 315742 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how much does prgmr HD space cost? < 1310955765 538804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um? < 1310955772 347948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean/why do you want to know? < 1310955787 850261 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know because I'm considering trying prgmr < 1310955800 738046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what < 1310955807 270686 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To play around with < 1310955834 302270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like a bad reason to spend at least ten dollars a month :-P < 1310955841 570375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it increases with the RAM. < 1310955860 373883 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what VPSes are more suited to just playing around with? < 1310955900 928997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a Linux box with an IP already, don't you? < 1310955916 429910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A VPS is for when you have actual services that you want to serve twenty-four seven :P < 1310955922 857869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, your money, but... < 1310955934 477097 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, probably my dad's money) < 1310955936 353375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not gonna find anything more than a few dollars cheaper than prgmr and what you do find will be a lot worse. < 1310955976 478510 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want toy services that I want to serve 24/7 < 1310956047 646789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your usecase sounds rather badly thought-out < 1310956050 388192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, not < 1310956062 767342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thought out, that is.) < 1310956116 552772 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC bots, maybe some Second Life stuff, wanting to play with web stuff without being restricted in my choice of language < 1310956131 491771 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Web stuff that other people can actually use) < 1310956171 750459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just leave your laptop on, then it costs [fraction of electrical bill] rather than whatever prgmr does:P < 1310956173 279766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does :P < 1310956177 530898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, prgmr would fit for that I guess. < 1310957733 288412 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129159.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310957966 361671 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders what happened to a certain DJ that shares his name < 1310958006 462492 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we found it confusing with several people named the same thing, so we killed him. < 1310958018 716767 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a fair coin toss, though < 1310958020 898182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, we found it confusing with several people named the same thing, so we killed you < 1310958030 690369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are not sure why your client is still sending messages < 1310958053 451824 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...are you sure you remember the right coin result < 1310958082 421788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310958095 369524 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, awkward < 1310958107 431189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310958359 622401 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, each of oerjan and ais523 was tasked with killing one of you if the coin flip went that way, but they both misread the coin and killed both of you. < 1310958366 860699 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the ambiguity was resolved. < 1310958492 226768 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310958556 111556 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1310958571 640994 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d2 < 1310958572 416655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d2 => 1 < 1310958603 582241 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310959599 255557 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310960631 192978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310960673 458328 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.245.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310960680 715005 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.245.90 QUIT :Changing host < 1310960680 913130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310961588 512298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310961591 359802 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310962975 760908 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother made up his character's name by now. He named his character "Also". < 1310963022 987515 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1310963289 292943 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is part of this group, and also his brother < 1310963326 836602 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I should *also* put it into the computer. < 1310963439 362548 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also puns can easily fall flat if you don't get the grammar just right < 1310964358 501044 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jeffkatz.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a721c2d7970b0133ed630c7b970b-800wi Delicious, delicious heart attack. < 1310964424 458232 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am American and I approve of this murder weapon. < 1310964739 775388 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.90 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310964745 152596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310965043 999116 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made a couple of those < 1310965094 962455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're still alive? < 1310965121 198288 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't say he ate them < 1310965216 315171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd inhale the cholesterol < 1310965316 688970 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1310965522 472177 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were delicious < 1310965528 990110 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I did feel rather gross after eating them < 1310965546 896885 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly copumpkin is as deceased as I am. < 1310965705 626024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow java generics are crappy < 1310965756 59294 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow water is wet < 1310965773 392315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1310965781 935435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're, like, _really_ crappy :O < 1310965847 274385 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but water is, like, _really_ wet :O < 1310965854 933175 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, completely drenching < 1310965905 47727 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps wetness is the extent to which a thing is saturated with water < 1310965947 12127 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean water is the wettest thing of all? < 1310965955 282351 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1310965956 567176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, phew, they're not _quite_ as bad as I thought I'd just proved < 1310965972 231659 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wetness might relate to liquids, which would complicate things < 1310965979 802333 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :since not all liquids are water < 1310966031 86223 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also brings up the question of whether ice is wet < 1310966062 818715 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, that's deep < 1310966072 211749 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in wetness, is water a necessary element? is liquid state a necessary element? < 1310966088 200199 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you have something wet which is neither water nor liquid < 1310966169 8797 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is humid air wet? Is mercury? < 1310966180 978770 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a natural word, so its probably ambiguous at best. < 1310966182 818340 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am showing off because gregor is here < 1310966217 346407 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok case closed < 1310966235 622255 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not capitalizing my name or using punctuation isn't particularly impressive showing off ... :P < 1310966244 79803 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know which way to go < 1310966254 971310 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Particle Man is in water, does he get wet, or does the water get him instead? < 1310967017 632541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you there? < 1310967021 810707 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Soviet Russia, wet gets YOU!! < 1310967032 199020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1310967040 563790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haskell/java bridge using jni < 1310967044 636045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare for me to leave the computer on and unattended overnight < 1310967049 444508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therapy is available down the hall. < 1310967053 539924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for the nightmares. < 1310967054 306734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the daytime, it's possible my boss has contacted me or something like that < 1310967063 542160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only avoid reading that line for so long, ais523. < 1310967069 351841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's no more insane than haskell/imperative language, isn't it? < 1310967083 435950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're saying that involving Java in something doesn't make it more of a terrible idea? < 1310967094 678243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be some kind of Act of Maximum Terribleness < 1310967096 234234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only marginally < 1310967098 440338 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell/JavaScript bridge 8-D < 1310967104 479750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider Java some sort of great, all-encompassing evil < 1310967109 392656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, killing a baby with Java isn't really worse than just killing a baby, I suppose < 1310967109 948265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an ordinarily evil < 1310967113 460923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ordinary < 1310967119 432130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost mundane, in fact < 1310967120 376379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, but as a language, it sure doesn't like talking to other people :P < 1310967127 892348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course Java is mundane, it's just /strange/ and mundane < 1310967145 574381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java constantly surprises me, and I'm hardly inexperienced with C and Python and other such "boring languages" < 1310967156 639327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1310967158 805412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't surprise me much < 1310967159 4547 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I think I have use for that < 1310967170 277605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that may be cause for concern :-) < 1310967176 850414 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION abruptly gets shot < 1310967179 35696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes, it honestly does < 1310967182 373116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed exactly like I expect it to be designed < 1310967198 381269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you expect type erasure? < 1310967201 818815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more abstraction layers than are particularly sane, and a standard library that tries to do everything itself < 1310967225 96119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, but partly because I know that Java's template system is a last-minute hack that was retrofitted to the language < 1310967235 316654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unfair < 1310967236 23547 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the name is also weird < 1310967237 425542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not an "expectation" < 1310967240 252383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating :-) < 1310967242 574712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you expect the rather strange anonymous subclass syntax? < 1310967259 828869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's saner than what C++ would come up with for the same thing < 1310967270 795652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means nothing! < 1310967286 567604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you come up with a better syntax < 1310967299 60248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why, when I could come up with a better language? < 1310967299 796518 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ template syntax is bad because it uses < > as delimiters even though they also mean less than and greater than signs. < 1310967301 242226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're just not thinking from the Java point of view < 1310967305 37784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's strange to be able to do that with shortcut syntax in the first place < 1310967316 900031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And certainly not what I'd expect from the Most Boring Orthodox OOP Language Ever < 1310967317 178611 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax isn't what's bothersome, although I haven't used Java much. But how do you not have lambdas? < 1310967320 435928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is not orthodox IMO < 1310967320 713596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, if everything is a class or an object, then what's a new method? a class < 1310967333 100846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to be able to make throwaway classes like that < 1310967340 825276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the syntax is much the same as defining an ordinary class < 1310967349 784891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that you put the class definition where the class name should go < 1310967364 99011 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't anonymous functions just be syntax sugar for a method of an anonymous class, then? < 1310967366 338707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steps away from ais523, curls up in a ball, and cries himself to sleep. < 1310967370 376783 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, hmm < 1310967383 936127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I note that C does the same thing, with anonymous structs < 1310967397 365554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct {int i; float f;} x; < 1310967398 328885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wish you were around when Java actually surprised me so I could tell you why < 1310967407 109262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens in IDEA, stays in IDEA < 1310967711 983464 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Java 8 is actually adding lambdas. < 1310967737 759600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what syntax, incidentally? < 1310967745 448004 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yay! Now how about all the APIs that don't take lambdas? < 1310967759 454570 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are they using Runnable or something, which, I _think_ stuff takes? < 1310967767 525263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're just sugar for a five-liner that creates an anonymous inner class < 1310967791 282870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runnable is sort-of the defacto standard for those if you're just using them as a callback, but taking no arguments and returning void is a bit crippling < 1310967801 170881 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1310967814 626087 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't used much Java < 1310967817 776831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not /fatal/, but you don't want to have to use stupid workarounds) < 1310967832 757703 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The planned syntax is #{ arglist -> code } < 1310967858 61147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/now/ I'm surprised < 1310967862 96320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly at the -> < 1310967868 624583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's such an unjavaish operator < 1310967919 758206 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can only close over final or "effectively final" variables... < 1310967940 759596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mostly at the # < 1310967952 610028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never expect to see that outside of a literal/comment in java < 1310967993 56224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's for consistency with method pointers, isn't it? < 1310968000 485098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that restriction's been around for ages < 1310968009 621342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to save having to distinguish between current and original value < 1310968015 40516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effectively final? < 1310968038 480042 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Basically, can be declared final without causing a compilation error. < 1310968051 624940 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, cool < 1310968066 289660 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, cool's the wrong word. But ... smarter than... an unsmart compiler?) < 1310968081 486727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. It's basically syntactic sugar around anonymous classes. < 1310968098 319711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's to make idiots think about whether they mean {final T x = this.x; return new C() {C(){setT(x);} } } or {final T finalThis = this; return new C() {C(){setThingToAccessToGetT(finalThis);} } } < 1310968116 461896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably have made minor syntax errors there, because Java more or less requires an IDE to do the boilerplate for you < 1310968121 98705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost as bad as VHDL < 1310968130 27273 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Anonymous classes of a single method. < 1310968147 13893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310968155 121110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1310968163 740026 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the type gets inferred. < 1310968185 463537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'll love this syntax, then (proposed, I'm not sure it was accepted): Math#sin for what is basically #{ x -> Math.sin(x) } < 1310968199 672013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: type inference? in /Java/? now I'm shocked < 1310968210 468120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's about as advanced as C++0x's. < 1310968221 465593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how advanced is that? < 1310968225 187090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1310968249 161202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++0x is more insane than my mind can easily grasp < 1310968259 439514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't even follow the move constructor debate < 1310968265 389607 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pretty much, if you're trying to use #{ } where only a class with a single method is expected, it figures out that you want to use that type. Otherwise it's a compile error. < 1310968267 190511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++0x is a beautiful, crystalline trainwreck < 1310968272 50599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite knowing early C++ (really early, before namespaces were invented) < 1310968281 228579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the Best language and, therefore, a completely useless piece of shit < 1310968290 715629 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Really* naive. < 1310968296 116654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone here explain move constructors? < 1310968300 443323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it lead to C++ sudoku! < 1310968307 640107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no, because they're basically inexplicable < 1310968315 326868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps someone here is insane enough to grasp them < 1310968325 329821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I understand the intention and what they're meant to encourage < 1310968345 303847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't get a) why that's considered a desirable feature for a language, or b) any of the millions of details needed for them to work correctly < 1310968362 597831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :summarise? opening a tab will crash flash < 1310968364 636793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not a joke) < 1310968369 964182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also make perfectly innocent-looking code do ridiculous things < 1310968375 895202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(flash /really/ hates pages loading or closing in Chrome for some reason) < 1310968381 240829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't easily, because I don't understand it really < 1310968386 135866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, < 1310968387 526400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, I understand the intention and what they're meant to encourage < 1310968388 349744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this part < 1310968394 510645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what a copy constructor is, right? < 1310968405 498679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like that, except you destroy the thing being copied, because it isn't needed any more < 1310968406 193718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's constructing a new object with just an existing one as an argument < 1310968408 763885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copying all its fields over < 1310968411 111444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's really hard to get right < 1310968413 650176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow < 1310968414 779087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: linear typing < 1310968422 135169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but... at runtime < 1310968430 282205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1310968432 440706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it uniqueness typing < 1310968436 34312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever Clean uses for IO, anyway < 1310968448 814007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's reminiscent of linear typing, at least < 1310968454 694947 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *reason* for move constructors is so that the compiler doesn't have to actually do deep copies for its temporary values. < 1310968458 891256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that linear typing's "legitimate ways to cheat" are rather unlike C++'s < 1310968473 400889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why can't it just use the original value? < 1310968511 198088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutability? < 1310968520 243833 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because things tend to get passed *by value* to relevant functions. < 1310968532 617200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, the reason for anything insane in C++ tends to be "performance, even though you'd just use a struct if you _really_ cared" < 1310968532 993098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh right, and C++ doesn't hide calling convention stuff < 1310968542 100845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310968547 947920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's because C++'s market is very specific nowadays < 1310968568 593765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's people who care massively about performance, but who can't use C for various reasons, mostly library support < 1310968569 879113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: games programming, application developers (who don't care about the new features), and "specialist" areas? like embedded/realtime stuff < 1310968587 277277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't include needing to use an object-oriented view of things as a reason to use C++, as C is better at that) < 1310968598 797099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote (I don't include needing to use an object-oriented view of things as a reason to use C++, as C is better at that) < 1310968599 996922 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :512) (I don't include needing to use an object-oriented view of things as a reason to use C++, as C is better at that) < 1310968605 964297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, a milestone < 1310968612 893645 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. foo = bar + baz + qux; would have to create a value for "baz + qux", to pass it to operator+ for adding bar to get the final value... < 1310968615 21117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll delete most of them later :-) < 1310968626 122707 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, think? < 1310968682 698979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: unless operator+ took references as arguments < 1310968689 928904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the standard for arithmetic operators, isn't it? < 1310968703 630174 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. To *work around that*. < 1310968718 36762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, nice < 1310968723 723377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there ever really a reason to pass by value in C++? < 1310968724 859741 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s semantics are far too complicated. < 1310968725 648817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1310968733 828487 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I dunno, but people *do it*. < 1310968736 592630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you pass integers and smaller primitive types by value, generally < 1310968759 285527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you pass them by reference, the compiler has to find some memory to store them in in order to pass a pointer to them, which is pretty convoluted < 1310968783 514324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes < 1310968786 108883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean non-primitive types < 1310968801 309907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most languages don't even have a /way/ to specify that you want a by-value passing < 1310968810 392176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to by-reference) < 1310968815 626837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays, I think value is faster for even structures up to 64 bits wide, with modern compilers and calling conventions < 1310968825 328779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although this is an implementation detail in the case of immutable objects) < 1310968831 299965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not many structures are less than sixty four bits wide... < 1310968848 683366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they are if you go up to Java levels of enterpriseyness < 1310968849 377772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would say that int is usually used even when char would do fine, for futureproofing and not-having-to-think-about-it reasons) < 1310968870 616215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have nothing but a vtable, for instance < 1310968876 595355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the vtable is stored as a pointer < 1310968882 152648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pointer to a pointer would just be ridiculous < 1310968888 540333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1310968900 48578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, in the minds of C++ users < 1310968900 326382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you're saying is, C++ needs opaque typedefs :) < 1310968903 245847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Haskell newtype) < 1310968913 75440 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly. < 1310968914 742318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskell, those desugar to the contained value < 1310968918 326043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's zero runtime overhead < 1310968949 492921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, never suggest a new feature for C++, even as a joke < 1310968953 365200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1310968954 377819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the consequences aren't pretty < 1310968970 454033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sad that concepts weren't accepted, those were really what C++ template metaprogramming needed < 1310968980 131978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he thinks I'm joking) < 1310968980 330021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something wasn't accepted? seriously? < 1310968986 270498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know about concepts? < 1310968994 868004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were half the size of C++ itself < 1310968997 686521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if the word has a specific technical meaning in the context of C++ < 1310968998 103729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hyperbole) < 1310969004 170104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and required a massive gcc fork to implement < 1310969009 2677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably to prove it was even humanly possible < 1310969009 844371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1310969017 37593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: take a skim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concepts_(C%2B%2B) < 1310969021 481999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the pending C++0x revision of the C++ programming language, concepts and the related notion of axioms were a proposed extension to C++'s template system, designed to improve compiler diagnostics and to allow programmers to codify in the program some formal properties of templates that they write. Incorporating these limited formal specifications into the program (in addition to improving code clarity) can guide some compiler optimizations, and < 1310969021 760936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : can potentially help improve program reliability through the use of formal verification tools to check that the implementation and specification actually match. < 1310969031 757170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was kind of like.... typeclasses < 1310969040 806798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except... used as a sort of formal verification system < 1310969042 545583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's someone trying to embed a different language into an existing one? < 1310969053 593547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wikipedia lists no prior art < 1310969059 666552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest a quick read of the article, it's truly jaw-droppingly C++ < 1310969063 401778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently too C++ for the committee < 1310969063 599745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310969084 416514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of a random reddit poster saying that incomprehensible template error messages were the compile-time version of a segfault < 1310969090 515487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, that's an attempt to statically prevent segfaults < 1310969099 434052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, metastatically < 1310969115 597600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope they were powerful enough to make a big C++ subset --> C++ template compiler easy-ish < 1310969128 263664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could propose to the committee to specify C++ templates based on the C++ semantics itself < 1310969134 964763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus shortening the report and allowing for further extension < 1310969141 141287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, say, allowing every C++ feature to be used at the type level < 1310969164 168437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Java-like solution to this would be to allow templates to extend each other < 1310969168 999367 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the C++ committee take the same crap that the html5 committee does? < 1310969176 588138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't /help/, but would be more javaish < 1310969186 867579 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: same crap as in what? < 1310969190 390678 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i actually meant XML < 1310969200 172590 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Most likely. < 1310969207 253565 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not know entirely what I mean.. but I hear the ISO is a joke < 1310969227 216404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, the axioms addition is very C++ish indeed < 1310969231 748399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it reminds me a bit of C99 < 1310969257 422618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I see the kind of feel you mean < 1310969262 310141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... on a C++ scale < 1310969292 936524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's a good description < 1310969314 661537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this reminds me a bit of listening to a piece of computer game music and trying to figure out what series it comes from by the style < 1310969315 102319 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for fake foreign accent) It is much the feeling that dependancy on C/C++ undermines potential of esoteric languages. < 1310969322 998210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only with programming languages < 1310969340 405416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not fake foreign accent, that's just academicspeak < 1310969345 489738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: C in particular has a view of the universe that was low-level once, but nowadays is an abstraction inversion < 1310969346 937993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the latter is an absorption of the former < 1310969365 997107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to do better < 1310969372 887195 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is danger in dependance. < 1310969375 628892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have a feeling the C committee went that way after someone came up to them with a copy of the Lisp Machine ZETA C compiler, and said "explain this". < 1310969411 83442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got annoyed with gcc-bf, because I just run into abstraction inversions everywhere, and it saddens me < 1310969424 706694 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstraction inversions? < 1310969433 240826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: java < 1310969438 253292 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, coppro asked the question I was going to ask < 1310969438 531132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that made sense when i typed it < 1310969451 539784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thus proving that neither of you can use Google (you're not ais523, you have no excuse) < 1310969452 19054 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dependance on c/c++ means that GNU can be led along by the c standard. < 1310969455 623987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: basically, when a language provides high-level concepts only, so if someone wants to use low-level concepts, they have to implement them in terms of the high-level concepts < 1310969458 180192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well, no < 1310969460 93729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU code in GNU C < 1310969466 69941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are again implemented in terms of low-level concepts < 1310969467 328036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't advance automatically with the C standard < 1310969467 620282 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, yes < 1310969468 691794 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they define their own standards? < 1310969475 978238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: --std=gnu99 < 1310969476 176014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: they refer to published ones < 1310969477 278254 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g.? < 1310969477 747329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can't change < 1310969483 911163 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1310969489 616224 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok its probably safe < 1310969491 458070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the classic example is synchronization in ADA, but most people, including me, don't know how it works < 1310969492 386258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change what the latest ISO standard for C is, but you can't change what ISO C90 is < 1310969494 837282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ada < 1310969497 627156 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can see the danger here right? < 1310969504 662727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it's just the trust issue. < 1310969510 208497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, you have to (depend|trust) someone. < 1310969515 808672 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, I mean "in C". < 1310969520 938985 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if google and microsoft lobby the standard < 1310969527 857445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know what abstraction inversion is, and can think of a few really good examples. < 1310969542 649154 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most obviously, implementing locking primitives in Erlang on top of its messaging. :) < 1310969546 107925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm... vectorised instructions, perhaps < 1310969563 523460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not quite what I mean, though < 1310969568 174868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think < 1310969577 236568 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should make a language called stallman < 1310969596 205985 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D every program needs to have the name stallman in the filename to compile < 1310969600 775639 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so you can do locking-based multithreading on top of message-passing multithreading on top of locking-based multithreading!) < 1310969630 434330 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :smacks my knee with jocularity < 1310969669 690853 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, ...why? No offense, really, but that sounds boring < 1310969696 885275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fetch/modify/store's a decent example, I think < 1310969706 390128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, all movement of data into and out of caches is implicit < 1310969735 908537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to do silly things normally used only by Vorpal, and weird unusual libraries, or else confusing code that doesn't really mean what it looks like it means, to get your memory access patterns to what you want < 1310969749 945973 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will anyone be mad at me if I strap my hash output language into a sucky thing like BF? < 1310969754 609458 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm uncreative < 1310969758 582198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1310969761 751116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't, but half the channel will < 1310969786 170817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't < 1310969788 687029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i won't care anyway :P < 1310969798 234872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH will, but PH already hates literally every person on the planet < 1310969809 429064 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Obvious solution is to ban 3/4ths of people from using C ever. < 1310969826 719532 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: Come up with a unique language just to show off the hash output. < 1310969827 577251 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't solve any of the problems with C, but it *does* make them hardly relevant! < 1310969850 627719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/SLOBOL? < 1310969871 72627 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have seen it but forgotten everything about it < 1310969876 754374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, look at it again < 1310969897 129980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hash source rather than hash output, but much the same thing < 1310969917 373578 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. It's the compiler that has to bruteforce hashes, not the program author. < 1310969934 742406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, on NetHackWiki, I just found a disambiguation page with two disambiguation headers < 1310969942 304797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it had to disambiguate what was being disambiguated < 1310969955 94882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity the other pages linked aren't dab pages too, or it would have been even better < 1310969992 884172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1310970008 708646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Fire < 1310970022 102095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's full of all the different pages relating to fire as in burning things < 1310970026 542478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why not just put it on top of BF, it won't really matter < 1310970031 189062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a header connecting to fire as in firing an arrow < 1310970031 486083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and make cells the size of a hash < 1310970037 267525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another one about a god in Slash'EM < 1310970054 425373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Wikipedia just uses different sections for homonyms like that < 1310970059 685568 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ooh, didn't think of that < 1310970076 49856 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was thinking I'd add ! to the commands, or something < 1310970134 571865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: means you get to use fun arithmetic to output the simplest things :D < 1310970146 800751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest quine will be, like, a gigabyte long < 1310970154 224913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so elegant < 1310970175 407868 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming there is a quine.. < 1310970194 253216 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: I don't know how you're using hashing in them outputs, but...) If you have a k-bit output from a hash function, and restrict yourself to k-bit inputs for it, I don't think it's very likely the function will be surjective, so you wouldn't be able to generate all possible outputs. < 1310970242 555194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: didn't the NSA go to a lot of trouble to prove that DES wasn't surjective? < 1310970243 621995 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually wait, the hash-sized cells restricts the possible inputs to the hash < 1310970275 162809 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would make it less likely that a quine exists, I thin < 1310970277 464958 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :think < 1310970309 696996 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mmmmaybe. It sounds like something that -- especially for a hash function -- would be really tricky to prove. < 1310970309 900115 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: poking light hearted fun at stallman's fixation on which words people use. stallmanhelloworld.gnu .. if gnu is the extension < 1310970314 547786 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe it was the round function? < 1310970328 412319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I imagine it was really tricky to prove < 1310970331 330092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it was far from obvious < 1310970341 37566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they had to in order to ensure that 3DES was harder to bruteforce than DES < 1310970449 105373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sgeo wants a language for which it's unknown whether a quine exists or not < 1310970453 234740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw don't use dha or whatever < 1310970453 790172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sha < 1310970460 784293 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had an idea about quines < 1310970464 806057 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a keyword quine < 1310970470 885045 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which produces a quine < 1310970486 279667 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :would piss people off < 1310970486 730002 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm, why not? < 1310970516 635786 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :presence of the word quine in the file would cause the program to compile a quine of the program" < 1310970527 763181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because you ideally want the hash to be two-hundred-and-fifty-seven bytes long. The first byte is "how many bytes of this hash to print" minus one. i.e. first byte = 0 means the one byte following will be printed. < 1310970541 581772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So this way we can specify only the valid lengths in the first byte and there are no edge cases. < 1310970568 812806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's a really nice hash that outputs an infinite stream that you just take the first N bytes of that you want; lemme find it < 1310970572 889915 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if first byte = 0 means that 0 bytes following will be printed < 1310970583 844965 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 256 byte hash < 1310970586 127007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, you could have that, but it means . could be a nop. < 1310970589 934280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not shared with brainfuck. < 1310970592 286611 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1310970592 760077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And seems kinda grosse. < 1310970599 20916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean there's no problem with it. < 1310970602 638412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't like it. :p < 1310970612 595709 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A scheme like that sounds like it would make it trivial to just bruteforce a set of hashes that start with "0000", "0001", "0002", ..., "00ff", and then use those for all output. < 1310970613 647196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, it means that . at the start of the program does nothing, rather than outputting a NUL byte < 1310970616 432835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I like less. < 1310970620 795160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, hmm, of course. < 1310970652 387084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I just cooked it up in three seconds after I told Sgeo that he obviously didn't have arbitrary output at an arbitrary point because ... < 1310970652 942458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdjfdsf < 1310970654 332662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1310970664 861284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Because of lengths etc. < 1310970671 744648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is dum < 1310970688 930307 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Some sort of "remove trailing nulls" thing might work, except then you couldn't output trailing nulls. < 1310970698 552560 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Yes" to the lengths thing.) < 1310970700 910573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's also what I said. < 1310970707 349988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo could cheat and have an "output NUL byte" instruction. < 1310970710 517062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Erm. < 1310970712 903519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That fails too < 1310970715 856700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just calculate the prefixes again < 1310970719 13662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each byte you want < 1310970756 50455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, remove trailing nulls from the "final output". Okay, I guess that's not going to work if you want some output before the end of the program. < 1310970765 323677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's a good idea. < 1310970768 619044 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output transformer. Program can only output 1-255, but this somehow expands to 0-255. 0 is always and only at the end < 1310970773 460518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do what fizzie said, except don't filter the nuls outputted by @. < 1310970780 593201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where @ is the nul byte outputter instruction because I said so. < 1310970821 669554 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to sleep soon < 1310970825 48394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_smooth_hash oh this is cool < 1310970828 885438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really cool < 1310970878 823381 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... surjective or non-surjective? < 1310970891 829453 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wikis surjective < 1310970900 212128 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can never keep the jectives straight < 1310970928 73811 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1310970949 285139 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want unknown surjectivity < 1310970984 53427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasnt suggesting it < 1310970987 702232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just calling it cool < 1310970993 98671 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1310971031 973717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0k < 1310971087 547880 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws his initial idea for making doing computations in a language require reversing a hash out the window < 1310971111 286725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was wrong with my idea < 1310971120 487202 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1310971125 130162 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye sgeo's initial idea for making doing computations in a language require reversing a hash < 1310971125 825646 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about your idea < 1310971141 57400 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll miss you < 1310971148 837902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ok < 1310971267 41318 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should throw it out here to be fixed up: Just stuff separated by ! that when hashed, must result in BF code. < 1310971292 204265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm reading TV Tropes again < 1310971295 710708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I enjoy it and have time < 1310971299 330194 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it's too easy to just do a bunch of brute-forcing to get each of the BF commands, then just use that forever < 1310971306 736938 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since no-ops are pretty easy < 1310971308 71033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, Firefox 3 opens tabs in IE order rather than Firefox 1 order < 1310971321 197710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does actually make a huge difference when visiting TV Tropes < 1310971321 395707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is Chrome order? < 1310971331 875698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably IE order, everything uses it nowadays < 1310971346 523787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :opening a tab next to the page that contained the link you clicked on < 1310971357 709291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Chrome opens tabs to the right of the last middle-click-opened tab; if you've switched tabs since you last did some middle-clicking, I'm not entirely sure how it decides < 1310971357 946874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Firefox 1 opened it at the end, leading to you reading in a queue rather than a stack_) < 1310971371 347077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's IE order < 1310971373 217216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it either goes to the right of the current tab or to the right of the tab bar, it seems < 1310971378 132638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, apparent nondeterminism? < 1310971388 802413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never did figure out exactly what caused which of those to happen < 1310971392 527500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly don't know how it's deciding where to put the first, but I'll just assume it's doing something Terribly Clever < 1310971399 305535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works for me, anyway < 1310971488 560388 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attention Sgeo: Sleep is not optional. < 1310971503 303735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1310971504 172079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1310971596 35224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I was reading TV Tropes and came across a reference to me < 1310971597 818877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was unexpected < 1310971609 446399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although inevitable in retrospect < 1310971637 655258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the nethack article? < 1310971641 70507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is guessing < 1310971644 394761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1310971650 796262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might even be able to figure out what for < 1310971656 577094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your stupid fame < 1310971657 949689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TAEB < 1310971660 553000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1310971663 330894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ace < 1310971663 931364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't seen it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9oMSPzChgk < 1310971667 89461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310971670 293245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the speedrun < 1310971672 516128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he says without clicking) < 1310971674 185023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that either < 1310971678 174890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :speedrun isn't finished < 1310971682 92377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, fastest death < 1310971683 77172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally an April Fool's joke < 1310971688 438590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1310971691 665979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that beep hurt < 1310971698 973536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame the encoder, not me < 1310971699 171716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the start < 1310971710 378284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a slower version............. < 1310971711 221328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whoever wrote the bootup sequence of DOS < 1310971722 206047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't see much more, I gave a transcript in the comments < 1310971746 412559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: RNG cheat, wish for an item, touch it in a way that makes you die? < 1310971750 131760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kinkkku I quote the submission text: «A female Tourist comes into the dungeon, finds a shiny artifact silver saber (Grayswandir) on the stairs she entered by [...], picks it up (the default options pick up all items you come across), takes damage from touching the artifact (a 1 in 4 chance for an unintelligent crossaligned artifact like the lawful Grayswandir for a neutral Tourist; [...]), and dies from the damage (around a 52% chance for a < 1310971750 330108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting Tourist [...])» < 1310971750 527681 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1310971753 835945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310971756 36371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, summariser < 1310971759 960757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would involve getting control of the character < 1310971768 453914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me around 2 and a half million tries < 1310971772 792592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat? < 1310971778 791567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at < 1310971780 542829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: that would involve getting control of the character < 1310971784 129773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eventually, I stumbled across a game where I died before gaining control of the characer < 1310971785 650541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*character < 1310971787 845887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's theoretically possible < 1310971790 494019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310971795 111575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1310971795 309789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :touching a cockatrice corpse < 1310971796 861313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on your spawn spot < 1310971799 353805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you spawned blind < 1310971800 187916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I knew it was, so just left my computer running for a week playing games until it happened < 1310971803 986236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1310971805 654121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't spawn blind, but you have the right idea < 1310971808 723417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310971810 120914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same sort of thing < 1310971813 623820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Grayswandir was generated on the upstairs, he picked it up due to autopickup, and it blasted him." < 1310971818 691526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310971820 671058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you go: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=267682#267682 < 1310971826 336397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought it meant fastest in realtime < 1310971845 58331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I finish input before the game loads, is that fast enough? < 1310971845 997806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, is that post just what i quoted but with really long aistext in the [...]s? < 1310971849 722429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no < 1310971859 155374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310971861 205634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thoguht you wrote that < 1310971862 554645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you didn't < 1310971866 718114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought < 1310971867 521836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a transcript of all the text the game would output if I hadn't skipped it < 1310971878 605709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310971885 343206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it is fastest in realtime, anyway < 1310971890 567243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything slower in gametime means actually inputting commands < 1310971897 663832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, Patashu, get out of that thread < 1310971898 17507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's bound to be slower than ending input before the game loads < 1310971902 900165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am seriously worried about how tiny the internet is < 1310971923 640792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally can't go anywhere without running into someone I've seen before somewhere completely unrelated < 1310971950 4367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why would input take any sort of time? < 1310971963 237643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because you overflow the BIOS keyboard buffer eventually < 1310971973 81416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh; write a PureDOS < 1310971975 28081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you type too early, the keys are interpreted as interrupting the boot process < 1310971989 320926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of some specification of the xeightsix's semantics < 1310972000 585617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then normalise its results to some cycles/sec count < 1310972004 512464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, the whole point is to emulate the real hardware as accurately as you can < 1310972015 563704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack doesn't _have_ hardware! < 1310972015 841800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually had to submit a patch to the emulator so that it would run NetHack < 1310972032 907087 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't it run NetHack? < 1310972036 148031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was a case of improving its handling of a particular edge case that was nonetheless exploited a lot by DJGPP < 1310972043 523170 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1310972054 449058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: basicaly, DJGPP does __int86 by using self-modifying code to overwrite the argument of an int instruction < 1310972062 499094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310972063 430285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and JPC-RR's pipeline was longer than NetHack expected < 1310972065 123041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is beautiful < 1310972065 613778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*basically < 1310972073 333349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of hate pipelining because of that < 1310972075 275313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instruction caches < 1310972078 822316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-modifying code is so nice < 1310972085 918125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I added code to do a simulated pipeline stall if the code tried to self-modify < 1310972095 633532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stalls the pipeline a bit faster than real hardware does, but NetHack doesn't notice < 1310972109 232646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither would anything else unless it were specifically trying to detect an emulator < 1310972120 34091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently some games have done that as an anti-cheating measure) < 1310972149 618026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, naughty TV Tropes, assuming I'm male without asking < 1310972160 261523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suppose someone who already knew I was might have added that < 1310972180 7431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to track down a citation for ais523 being male with Google < 1310972194 512673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it exists but will be nontrivial to find < 1310972215 922676 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't #esoteric logs work? < 1310972216 617994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=User%3Aais523 is the second result for "ais523 male"... < 1310972222 652237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it can't interpret < 1310972229 715697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1310972229 913489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not if google doesn't find them < 1310972250 405030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are not too many male admins wearing rouge, because I like men in makeup .... We still have one: {{subst:User:Ais523/User wikipedia/RC patrol (NCR)}}. ... < 1310972256 121672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Wikipedia talk:No climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spider-Man ... < 1310972260 319373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, ais523 is a male admin wearing rouge < 1310972261 952348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only one, in fact < 1310972271 458581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, that's not a reference to me < 1310972275 573500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SSSSHHHHH < 1310972278 601469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have userfied the userbox in question < 1310972284 220841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't imply anything about my gender < 1310972291 969211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact, IIRC I /created/ it) < 1310972307 931800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that quote doesn't even appear on that page, seemingly < 1310972328 800012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am allergic to cologne, and therefore will need to scale in protest.[citation needed] There are not too many male admins wearing rouge, because I like men in makeup.[citation needed] - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 01:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC) < 1310972337 198134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1310972344 646059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that ... is cheating < 1310972348 672911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems it just picked your signature up because i mentioned it < 1310972350 591123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even in an unrelated comment! < 1310972358 48568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's not a sig, it's a userbox < 1310972367 968197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sig has a link to my user, user talk, contribs pages < 1310972368 166353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310972370 984479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :user twice, in fact < 1310972373 134790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1310972377 16381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just cheating b- < 1310972380 159279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[PDF] Lamborghini Miura < 1310972380 357512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.macchinaveloce.com/.../wikipedia-book-pdf_lamborghini-miura_...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View < 1310972380 357697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 Jan 2011 – The three men worked on the car's design at night, hoping to sway ..... Aetherfukz, After Midnight, Ais523, Alanraywiki, Alansohn, Alhutch, ... < 1310972393 20470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that even < 1310972414 356925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some spambots were using usernames taken from Wikipedia a while back to confuse spam filters < 1310972417 306523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that's it < 1310972431 822354 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's brilliant < 1310972432 518203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concludes that he/she has no real reason to believe that ais523 is male < 1310972450 808849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jokes only ais will get . com < 1310972499 515403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you male < 1310972514 181107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of question is that? < 1310972522 935392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a question that Google will index the answer to :-D < 1310972681 320213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QDB: Best of the Queue < 1310972681 598168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.qdb.us/queue/best/5 - Cached and i have a fantasy about having 2 men at once: one for .... meh, I've been so busy in RL recently I've hardly been sleeping at all ... < 1310972683 337473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is qdb famous < 1310972689 127858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like bash famous but slightly less popular < 1310972695 607026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i give up, i'm going to refer to ais523 with spivak from now on < 1310972711 864751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refer to /myself/ with singular they in /me, because it seems weird otherwise < 1310972722 796281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use gendered pronouns without hesitating nowadays < 1310972756 344910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's simpler than worrying whether I'm making assumptions about my own gender < 1310972803 919293 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should return to myself as "it". that'd be cool. too bad I don't use /me at all ever < 1310972821 521632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" is a cool pronoun i approve of it < 1310972825 842832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're hardly the first to though monqy < 1310972862 944024 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone consider it offensive to be referred to as "it" < 1310972897 123200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably most people for whom it isn't their preferred pronoun < 1310972899 906175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind, for the record < 1310972906 785447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it might confuse me the first few times < 1310972951 806461 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only grammatical gender wasn't a thing. then I would be less unhappy. < 1310972972 217645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammatical gender must be such a fucking pain < 1310972977 159723 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't see ais523 on there < 1310972986 511513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1310972991 424618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's clearly a cached version < 1310973001 751889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: can i call you it, that would be cool. or wait how about punctuation < 1310973003 988093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I call you -- < 1310973004 405048 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1310973030 841744 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- is the new personal pronoun? < 1310973034 965740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310973041 653066 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm cool with it so long as I know what it means < 1310973044 132311 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION submitted himself to bash once. Everyone hated it. < 1310973051 230414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that -- is going to use "--" forever < 1310973053 947501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "everyone"? < 1310973058 970812 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: --self :P < 1310973060 920380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a mod will have seen it < 1310973062 735464 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Not literally everyone < 1310973065 123244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it got APPROVED < 1310973070 766769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. one person < 1310973128 592405 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by bash I may have meant qdb < 1310973147 203302 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ther are votes on it < 1310973157 263586 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 votes, although it no longer shows up as approved < 1310973187 176932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/297375 < 1310973200 978683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/search?q=%23esoteric&order=real_score&sort=desc&limit=25&approved=-1 < 1310973204 113622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1310973204 311251 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good quote very funny < 1310973205 85625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im there < 1310973206 894278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its good voted < 1310973211 158342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I;M FANOUS < 1310973224 341153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fanous monqy < 1310973233 111562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1310973236 816833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo submitted a quote < 1310973239 229443 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre famouse < 1310973240 340616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in his client's format < 1310973247 81080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1310973268 969244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems to be an excerpt of random channel banter :D < 1310973286 116576 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe if you didn't submit it yourself in a fit of "omg I'm so funny" but rather waited until you said something that someone else found worth quoting, your first quote would be better < 1310973297 159369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/298929 < 1310973301 527086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ITS ALMOST HALF RATED GOOD < 1310973305 876750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG OMG OMG OMG IM SO FANOUS < 1310973308 607846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzoquote's rating is appropriately "?". < 1310973314 639625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner i am so fanous < 1310973351 492497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it ok to vote myself up DONT CARE SUCKAS DOING IT ANYWAY < 1310973353 582279 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the reasoning I use to prevent myself from quoting all my super awesome puns just because no-one else did) < 1310973371 466570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://qdb.us/303709 < 1310973382 172730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: plz explain your proximity to an imitator of I < 1310973464 716745 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a single well-voted bash.org-quote -- http://bash.org/?39012 -- and I can't quite recall if it was from #esoteric or not. Based on the content it might well be, though the other speaker's nick doesn't sound that familiar. < 1310973513 595603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1310973523 645595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it was unlogged. < 1310973545 174411 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have all the logs memorized or something? < 1310973546 7137 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in my logs either, and I suppose I was on-channel at the time. < 1310973551 221450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i have a copy < 1310973586 130545 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's a much more realistic explanation < 1310973591 119720 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should wget them or something at some point < 1310973598 143486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or sync with Gregor's project < 1310973603 522212 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel willing to use cygwin < 1310973611 777934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gregor's project"? < 1310973615 21609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need rsync for windows. < 1310973618 422580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/302321 <-- wat < 1310973679 324345 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now very curious as to what network that was < 1310973712 612823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zamabe [~zamabe@i.saw.this.giant.bird.and.his.name.was.linux] has quit [G-Lined: Spam sucks.] < 1310973713 45103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good hostname < 1310973736 156086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christ is clearly Gamzee < 1310973739 726822 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Chris < 1310973747 75178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chris, christ < 1310973748 799926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference < 1310973760 39450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : like there was this one day I took three grams of sugar and few litres of coke and some assorted lego mindstorm bits and made sense out of them < 1310973763 331640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what does it MEAN????? < 1310973802 830406 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://honk-honk.org/ well, that's pathetically boring < 1310973878 563184 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: More context would maybe make SENSE out of it, but I can't find any of this stuff from my logs. They must be in the -- dramatic pause -- OLD LOGS. Annoying that bash.org doesn't show a submission timestamp. (But the numbers are pretty low, they're around 900k now.) < 1310973902 696501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This is why you should never snort Lego Mindstorm bits. < 1310973915 97096 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is bash.org even older than 2002/2003? < 1310973926 916968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 isn't it? < 1310973932 729690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an Institution(tm). < 1310973953 499933 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :© QDB 1999-2011, All Rights Reserved. if that means anything < 1310973953 698053 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :old enough that it has always existed < 1310973955 377118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: plz tell wikipedia they need an article on bash.org. thx < 1310973963 826597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: thanks, it < 1310973972 564084 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310973976 222624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [[Wikipedia:Requested articles]]? < 1310973982 659327 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to throw this router in the trash < 1310973984 968383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's probably existed a thousand times :P < 1310973996 216291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1310974003 225141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody ever reads requested articles anyway < 1310974016 36257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"here's a lot of _actually difficult_ non-gnome work to do" < 1310974019 470798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"enjoy" < 1310974068 439467 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310974142 131049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you know of any tolerable non-Java JVM languages? < 1310974148 706626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clojure sucks, Scala sucks, Python sucks, Ruby sucks, ... :( < 1310974150 926636 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, this xkcd is more of a ... pitch for some sci-fi show, than an actual comic < 1310974153 622924 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala sucks? < 1310974159 894986 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clojure sucks? < 1310974161 980401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why did you add "non-Java" to "tolerable"? < 1310974171 143239 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Mindstorm one seems to come from Mar 29, 2002, and here's the context that will make it all sensible: http://p.zem.fi/37do < 1310974174 376345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, Java is... tolerable, it just shortens your lifetime. < 1310974179 385542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have expected you to think of Java as tolerable, even though you'd been writing in it < 1310974191 904301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Suddenly it makes SENSE. Also you had no tab-complete. < 1310974199 170295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not good or acceptable, it's just... tolerable. < 1310974204 321101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not, for instance, yet dead. < 1310974209 285863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare if I'd been using PHP. < 1310974216 410269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1310974223 418836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, < 1310974225 697210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not, for instance, yet dead. < 1310974228 825318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has an insanely weird rhythm < 1310974242 126299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading proggit discussing PHP deprecating the mysql library (in favour of mysqli) < 1310974245 771185 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do like how mooz's "standard" way of decoding ROT13 is to run it through a Befunge program. That's dedication. < 1310974259 221070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're deprecating it in one of the worst ways possible (in particular, generating no deprecation warnings) < 1310974264 583607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that mooz guy sounds totally cool, he should drop his life and come have fun with us :( < 1310974278 109459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a firefox extension to derot13 stuff < 1310974279 667157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is PHP, if they do anything like that they'll get murdered by the users < 1310974295 733812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure register_globals' deprecation was met with insane fury and footstomping < 1310974302 472457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, too, magic quotes < 1310974303 862251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing doesn't even support parametrized queries! < 1310974305 682605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, magic quotes < 1310974309 141954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you BELIEVE magic quotes?? < 1310974310 183615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what did magic quotes do? < 1310974319 178821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what register_globals did, and why it's an insanely bad idea < 1310974320 237532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: automatically escaped every quote/backslash in query/form parameters < 1310974323 338549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you would avoid SQL injections < 1310974329 31294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1310974330 575144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, ouch < 1310974336 854255 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... not the right way to avoid SQL injections < 1310974340 688399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst thing is, in some cases that might actually work < 1310974341 660951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you had to strip the slashes to output them < 1310974342 797494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just makes it worse < 1310974347 81364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazing < 1310974357 644635 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dead < 1310974359 588492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kiled me < 1310974363 675696 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does anyone not know the right way to avoid SQL injections? < 1310974368 456764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: php < 1310974373 595697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like undefined behaviour, defined as "does more or less what you want except when you demonstrate it to a customer" < 1310974375 196290 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they've HEARD of it, I mean, how do they not know < 1310974391 516596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: well, we are talking 1997/1998 < 1310974404 733478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably didn't hear of it, someone probably just complained that their site got hacked < 1310974411 99507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they looked at the ogs < 1310974411 762370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logs < 1310974414 653031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aha, we need to escape this" < 1310974421 61017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it would be convenient if you didn't have to" < 1310974425 348055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so that you couldn't make mistakes like this" < 1310974426 927345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an hour later... < 1310974447 955138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: when magic quotes was introduced, < 1310974460 860021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP still did loops by fseek()ing back to the start of the loop upon reaching its end < 1310974461 246790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have a better idea for something that has PHP levels of awful and yet is not as bad as magic quotes < 1310974463 492318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and continuing execution from there < 1310974466 92433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow < 1310974468 759827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : im double dead < 1310974478 942876 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the mailing lists archived somewhere? < 1310974486 292538 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To actually see the thought processes < 1310974487 266140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you change the string concatenate operator to escape things it concatenates other than string literals < 1310974489 691379 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of speculating < 1310974499 421056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and wow, that is a pretty ridiculous way to do loops < 1310974521 473295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you have a SQL query tree, then it makes sense for a string node to be escaped in conversion to raw textual SQL < 1310974523 992673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is sane < 1310974529 372102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't involve a concatenation operator, though < 1310974530 223695 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why would anyone ever do loops like that < 1310974534 617859 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fseek()? That sounds like opening the file and I guess, in this context, executing part of it? < 1310974534 816242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you used string interpolation, it'd look about the same < 1310974544 360834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Never reading the dragon book? < 1310974545 651814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: X_X < 1310974547 535877 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it amazes me how php manages to exist < 1310974558 317824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ghod, magic quotes. There were even separate settings for magic_quotes_gpc (for GET/POST/COOKIE fields) and magic_cookies_runtime (for database/fread/most-but-not-all-external-sources data), and you could never know which values will and will not have magically escaped quotes. < 1310974561 365380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, concatenation is really weird if you're thinking of an ast < 1310974573 873941 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fseek() + an eval, I guess? < 1310974577 195972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (select foo from) has to be a "partial query"... basically, wherever the parser ends up, you ... oh it's a zipper < 1310974582 549624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is PHP, I'm just thinking of "whatever's hackiest to implement" < 1310974586 46316 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :although wouldn't that hit stack overflow? < 1310974586 741512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you navigate down the parsetree with a zipper as you construct it < 1310974588 270345 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current PHP docs: "There is no reason to use magic quotes because they are no longer a supported part of PHP. However, they did exist and did help a few beginners blissfully and unknowingly write better (more secure) code. But, when dealing with code that relies upon this behavior it's better to update the code instead of turning magic quotes on. So why did this feature exist? Simple, to help prevent SQL Injection. Today developers are better aware of security < 1310974588 468705 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end up using database specific escaping mechanisms and/or prepared statements instead of relying upon features like magical quotes." < 1310974590 152440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when you reach the end ) < 1310974593 639436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you store that zipper < 1310974594 890898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the object < 1310974597 644424 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, "it made sense back then", they say. < 1310974599 361678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a+b < 1310974605 528205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replaces the hole in a < 1310974608 987513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with b < 1310974610 135720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reminds me a bit of the metasyntactic variable - in maths < 1310974619 932470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if a is a holy-parse-tree) < 1310974632 459867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(select a from) + (foo.) + bar --> select a from foo.bar < 1310974640 19379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is used to construct, basically, parse trees with holes in < 1310974647 863903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1310974652 465962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's more like mixfix, but yes < 1310974665 69815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, it's more like defining arbitrary operators i.e. mixfix, than a parse tree < 1310974671 814773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because mathematics doesn't really /have/ parse trees < 1310974679 109501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not ones that even vaguely match up to the syntactic form < 1310974746 875053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh man these holy parse trees are cool < 1310974749 441617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1310974750 681350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1310974760 275224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*holey? < 1310974762 971439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the typo deliberate? < 1310974764 47584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310974766 500996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fun typo < 1310974770 696910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deliberypo < 1310974780 600182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what ((select a from) + (where b=9)) results in < 1310974792 798344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, clearly you just need a subtree-insert operation < 1310974796 684587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like inserting in a string < 1310974800 165830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you have to do silly things normally used only by Vorpal, and weird unusual libraries, or else confusing code that doesn't really mean what it looks like it means, to get your memory access patterns to what you want <--- XD < 1310974815 833849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"silly things normally" < 1310974825 685330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/normally// < 1310974827 506262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert(1, sometable, (select a from) + (where b=9)) --> select a from sometable where b=9 < 1310974830 729843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: beuatiful < 1310974835 617413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, I don't actually have to implement posix_memadvise or whatever it's called < 1310974855 970452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, posix_madvise iird < 1310974858 786769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc* < 1310974861 237605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1310974869 346313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, secret project < 1310974882 250980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not very secret if you blab about it < 1310974884 950897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains anything I do that results in obscure questions about Linux internals < 1310974900 26986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: STUPID PUBLIC LOGBOTS < 1310974903 97485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, writing fakeinit < 1310974909 816358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when will it stop being secret < 1310974918 617982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: when, if ever, it's finished < 1310974931 323057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good thing Feather wasn't under that, then < 1310974933 664199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we'd never hear about it < 1310974939 514253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1310974940 244530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not that interesting to this community anyway, other than in being generally insane and programming-related < 1310974960 447793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you mean, it is interesting to this community? < 1310974964 802111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is it secret < 1310974981 561400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, convoluted reasons < 1310974988 773194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s/convoluted/secret/ < 1310975006 439162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are really minor, in that the reasons don't really justify the effort I have to go to to stop anyone figuring out exactly what I'm doing < 1310975049 366540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, NDA? < 1310975056 547502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310975059 382492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1310975065 380950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be a lot more cautious if it were an NDA < 1310975066 547208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1310975080 799140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I care about is that people don't figure out exactly what I'm doing, or at least why < 1310975101 124219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :figuring out approximately what is fine < 1310975105 581363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it makes no sense out of context < 1310975112 644482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway the fact that you even consider "implementing" posix_madvise indicates it is a libc, OS or similar. < 1310975124 450475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is actually implementing Microcosm < 1310975137 340063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that could be it yes. < 1310975140 909569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, it's secret but not for official reasons? < 1310975148 422881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't love us :'''''''''''( < 1310975149 526303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may ask someone to explain user-mode Linux to me at some point, but I don't think it does what I want < 1310975157 282508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1310975158 395033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's secret for really inane and pointless reasons < 1310975164 589010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me want to keep it secret all the more < 1310975165 714257 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310975177 472211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lamest???? signs point to YES < 1310975190 601925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well said < 1310975200 353596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't an OS, at least < 1310975201 989726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not exactly < 1310975204 642542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some similarities < 1310975228 36443 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML is very obvious from the name; it just runs an instance of the kernel as a user-mode task, without most of the drivers since they're not necessary, and some plumbing back to the host. < 1310975233 485376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I know < 1310975267 223715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I could even tell people its name and they wouldn't know what it did, but that's because it's not a very descriptive name < 1310975270 517127 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like some sort of A New Kind Of OS. < 1310975273 397265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: update < 1310975278 866521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dododododo < 1310975283 154950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's @ < 1310975285 86116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1310975287 33262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not going to, because I suck at maintaining deceptions < 1310975294 884129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we will wear you down eventually < 1310975306 395310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, why is everyone so excited? < 1310975307 683683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave that to elliott yes < 1310975319 223311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because it sounds interesting < 1310975346 765076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this the always PID 2-project? < 1310975351 637696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's fakeinit < 1310975352 706612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310975353 957122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is apparently part of it < 1310975355 943510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fakeinit's part of it < 1310975360 243527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bit's easy < 1310975360 441980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh come on, with your track record, we're interested in everything you do by definition < 1310975367 354991 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1310975368 995618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that init doesn't actually do very much < 1310975373 768806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have to, at least < 1310975393 501339 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: http://io.smashthestack.org:84/intro/ < 1310975395 922722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: hs update < 1310975464 95564 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah < 1310975464 330872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1310975467 935028 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush < 1310975485 3659 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really like the graphical demo < 1310975517 50757 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they could use the existing partition table as a possible source of data for autogenerating more interesting graphical presentations < 1310975631 776962 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1310975716 967175 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ty < 1310976197 483349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310976201 119950 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310976247 73379 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does it say about me that the first thing I thought in this recent patch of Java coding when I found that the Bukkit API forces you to use instanceof was "but that breaks parametricity!"? < 1310976274 703029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: that you're still thinking in terms of actual OO as compared to practical real world Java OO < 1310976283 869314 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, parametricity is a functional thing < 1310976298 715929 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it breaks down slightly with _|_, IIRC < 1310976301 894752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, there's an OO equivalent that's basically the same thing < 1310976306 361056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :substitutability, or something < 1310976311 125493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with different names < 1310976314 377777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instanceof is bad, anyway < 1310976317 938939 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that Liskov substitution? < 1310976321 127696 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :principle < 1310976324 755658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, could be < 1310976330 252126 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what parametricity is, really < 1310976335 499570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time I've used instanceof is to work around a really badly designed API < 1310976345 553539 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with Bukkit, it seems reasonable enough < 1310976361 504514 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g. in the body of a /command, you have a CommandSender < 1310976372 644910 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which could be the server console, a player, or < 1310976377 378239 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can execute commands in code) < 1310976383 486824 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if you want to do something player-specific... < 1310976390 966206 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (sender instanceof Player) ... < 1310976402 453701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those should be subclasses of CommandSender, surely? < 1310976407 20526 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably there could be a nicer way of doing it, but I can't think of a similarly extensible one off the top of my head < 1310976407 562494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, of Command < 1310976411 439562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CommandSentByPlayer, etc < 1310976418 757826 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, there is no such Command object < 1310976420 705612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Java's lack of multiple inheritance stops that working properly < 1310976427 614628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what represents the /command itself? < 1310976427 874163 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an event handler < 1310976435 760344 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command < 1310976438 296421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, have different listeners, then < 1310976452 640577 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jd.bukkit.org/apidocs/org/bukkit/command/Command.html < 1310976456 715758 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jd.bukkit.org/apidocs/org/bukkit/command/CommandSender.html < 1310976569 117396 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DefaultCommands is the only plugin you need for your server! It has everything!" < 1310976574 937595 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual quote < 1310976736 536617 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Infer Nullity" --IntelliJ IDEA < 1310976760 246644 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone implemented nullity for a popular programming language? < 1310976815 846057 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does NaN count? < 1310976920 23183 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310976936 241563 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bookofparagon.com/Mathematics/PerspexMachineIX.pdf good paper < 1310976994 216695 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Imagine you're landing on an aeroplane and the automatic pilot's working," he suggests. "If it divides by zero and the computer stops working - you're in big trouble. If your heart pacemaker divides by zero, you're dead." < 1310976995 304295 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1310976997 687748 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot how amazing. < 1310977011 905681 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to wiki, whether it equals itself is the only significant difference < 1310977080 670851 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop abbreviating wikipedia as wiki < 1310977109 540483 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I allowed to abbreviate c2 wiki as wiki < 1310977110 128179 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1310977142 94041 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310977146 62572 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1310977175 806315 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1310977177 419619 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no < 1310977229 226246 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I'm on Windows 7 now, I may be able to get Haskell working < 1310977255 119930 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading the platform installer... < 1310977342 326726 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing < 1310977359 855138 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should provide us a progress bar too. < 1310977369 693290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TV Tropes queue emptied < 1310977380 186901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was surprising, to say the least, I expected it to last longer < 1310977396 817599 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting good at escaping TVTropes < 1310977397 15408 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat, you ran out of tv tropes? < 1310977398 904811 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too good < 1310977405 153684 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: tell ais523 about your system < 1310977408 932467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, i don't follow every link < 1310977415 750488 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I managed to escape TV Tropes perfectly < 1310977419 53439 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and permanently < 1310977423 304723 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also need to remember to use full stops. < 1310977424 438772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I tend to follow less than 1 link on average from each page < 1310977430 153502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: don't tell me you memorized the whole thing? < 1310977446 39781 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like the semicolons of written language < 1310977467 701717 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, i started finding people casually dropping trope terminology as a substitute for actually knowing anything about fiction sufficiently annoying that every time I read a page it's insanely obnoxious < 1310977474 361997 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've developed a natural resistance < 1310977475 720307 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go my brain < 1310977484 990815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310977530 843703 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My system consists of a .txt file of tvtropes URLs; there's about 60 or so in there. I pick from there at random, and then add any interesting-sounding non-duplicate links at the end of the file. < 1310977554 116494 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make it an sql database; then you don't have to worry about duplicates < 1310977556 76630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's not too dissimilar from mine, except that I do more than one at a time < 1310977563 482516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and queue rather than picking at random < 1310977573 432134 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My escape system is, think of something else, close the browser in one go, realise I'm not in TVTropes anymore, celebrate. < 1310977579 809309 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell installed < 1310977620 641944 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's an idea: a script that detects if you ever click a link you've clicked before this session; if you do, it closes the tab you clicked it on < 1310977637 973915 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually, you'll get sufficiently paranoid of clicking links that you'll give up < 1310977638 529629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: why would that help? < 1310977642 553280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1310977645 513339 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, I suppose, run out of links that don't self-destruct < 1310977653 646178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I click duplicates sometimes, but they don't take much effort to close < 1310977663 514752 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's just a "this has gone on way too long" signal :D < 1310977676 759078 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since it closes duplicates, there's no way to get back a page it takes away from you < 1310977678 844213 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always seem to end up at the page for Futurama < 1310977711 832786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it happened to me recently, which makes sense as I stay within related groups of pages < 1310977730 734212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people normally browse it aimlessly? < 1310977736 168661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I go there to look up something in particular < 1310977753 885535 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people end up on it and then can't get out because every link looks interesting < 1310977788 19498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the links that look interesting to me tend to form a finite subset, and be only a couple on each page < 1310977804 656107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eventually they end up forming a walled garden, when I disregard links I don't care about < 1310977805 629281 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're lucky < 1310977811 696128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also helps that I have some of the more common targets memorized < 1310977821 914871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it's reaching the point that I can often guess what's behind a piped link too < 1310977994 818402 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is wtf-is-latin's-code:generis etymologically related to en:generic at all? < 1310978006 445396 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in sui generis < 1310978030 825228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin is la: < 1310978033 244910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know < 1310978060 116388 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, I can find out < 1310978072 826424 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is < 1310978090 922721 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic: "Etymology: Either < post-classical Latin genericus (a1315; also 1644 in Descartes), or directly < classical Latin gener-, genus kind (see genus n.) + -ic suffix." < 1310978112 148415 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1310978256 748700 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variables in Haskell do not vary? < 1310978267 191840 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why the hell are they called variables? < 1310978285 278664 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: got a better name? < 1310978288 355586 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric : name < 1310978295 912778 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: But really, they vary as much as variables do in mathematics < 1310978300 850078 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x = x + 9 < 1310978302 865672 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is a variable < 1310978314 217290 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense < 1310978314 415388 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't actually call f a variable... < 1310978321 197045 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is one, technically, I'd say < 1310978329 383693 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1310978331 653391 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Reading LYAH? < 1310978343 949932 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just Wikibooks < 1310978347 563831 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ew < 1310978351 417745 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't < 1310978357 630721 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a very good tutorial at all IMO < 1310978380 639968 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://learnyouahaskell.com/ is the best tutorial but if you really can't stand cartoon animals then I guess Real World Haskell might suffice < 1310978463 352976 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Or, well, read what you want but if you suffer eternally then I warned you :-P < 1310978525 680509 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the pointers < 1310978662 396430 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Real World Haskell is also good to read after LYAH; it's good on the overall "how to structure and write a Haskell program" which isn't easy to see coming from imperative languages, but less so on the details of the actual language which LYAH covers bettwe < 1310978664 290206 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1310979998 136335 :Taneb_!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310980099 272589 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1310980295 659573 :Taneb_!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 NICK :Taneb < 1310980557 985241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310980830 131584 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's pretty neat < 1310980921 790741 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2^x|x<-[1..10]] < 1310980937 108613 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The elegance of that is outstanding < 1310981267 817871 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (2^) [1..10] < 1310981268 905514 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftfy < 1310981336 700536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> 2.^(1:10) < 1310981336 898484 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans = < 1310981336 898650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Columns 1 through 9 < 1310981336 898760 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 < 1310981339 811524 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the MATLAB in us. < 1310981343 88345 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1310981369 701954 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How does MATLAB print arrays longer than the screen? < 1310981375 174969 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, "Columns 1 through 9" < 1310981378 531899 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess it just truncates them < 1310981380 646450 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross < 1310981388 617115 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It continues on the second line with "Column 10". < 1310981391 427073 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't bother pasting. < 1310981413 216524 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The output formatting is not very pretty in general, though. < 1310981480 759921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's a spreadsheet-like matrix viewer in the GUI side.) < 1310981945 580944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310981949 280079 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find the matlab ui appaling < 1310982096 42934 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it usual to nest packages in Java to provide a hierarchy? < 1310982101 981732 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than prefixing a bunch of class names < 1310982111 874401 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not, since you can't import them qualified like that < 1310982243 528173 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The larger collections in the standard runtime do have some hierarchical packagemancy going on. E.g. java.awt has java.awt.font, java.awt.color, java.awt.image and so on for not-used-all-the-time specializations. < 1310982321 806660 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1310982345 49179 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's net.[secret].[secret].MiscellaneousCommands vs. net.[secret].[secret].commands.Miscellaneous. < 1310982957 990386 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1310982960 415432 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1310984375 717570 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1310984379 978486 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se QUIT :Changing host < 1310984380 176398 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1310984602 490810 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310984611 662919 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310984868 670611 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: long time no nick < 1310985416 914166 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> take 5 $ fix (+1) 0 < 1310985422 278767 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 $ fix (+1) 0 < 1310985423 795206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a]) < 1310985423 993249 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_1510' at take 5 $ iterate (+1) 0 < 1310985517 526714 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it provides general recursion < 1310985518 81879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,2,3,4] < 1310985525 25748 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't imply infinite loops by any stretch < 1310985527 649995 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 $ fix (1:) < 1310985528 623593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,1,1] < 1310985562 135029 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fact me 0 = 1; fact me n = n * me (n-1) in fix fact 9 < 1310985562 864915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 362880 < 1310985565 375664 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: note how fact doesn't refer to itself < 1310985573 711286 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix f === f (fix f) < 1310985614 657322 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1310985632 613264 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that's the implementation, almost < 1310985640 21209 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's actually "fix f = let x = f x in x" for sharing) < 1310985668 907544 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ($) < 1310985670 121809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> b) < 1310985670 320035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1310985694 362258 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix ($) < 1310985695 196805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b < 1310985696 918587 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is quite sure she has at least one type wrong. < 1310985698 241120 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful < 1310985700 225581 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ($) 9 < 1310985708 87200 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: are you trying to get just _|_> < 1310985710 750830 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want fix id < 1310985712 431122 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :id :: a -> a < 1310985714 932662 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix :: (a -> a) -> a < 1310985715 433308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1310985716 227357 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fix id < 1310985716 871841 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, I'm being silly. < 1310985717 218622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1310985728 773397 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i was asking how exactly you're trying to be silly < 1310985739 376406 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Create ways to crash things. < 1310985743 93394 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1310985747 303479 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1310985789 737616 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't crash lambdabot :) < 1310985793 611323 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except by looking at it. < 1310985796 34588 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware. < 1310985796 452910 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1310985809 741169 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error "Not even this way?" < 1310985811 131762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Not even this way? < 1310985814 652887 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope! < 1310985815 234649 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310985823 295237 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(heh obviously not) < 1310985826 772284 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be horrible otherwise) < 1310990419 506466 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310990427 13070 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again < 1310991245 31178 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310991913 426506 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My advisor was in Paris on Thursday, Indiana this weekend, and is now in Seattle. < 1310991920 211376 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote: "My body clock is ... missing" < 1310991975 181275 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, nice < 1310991979 826856 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not nice < 1310991983 221688 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you know < 1310992020 494092 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also my bank account." < 1310992074 211562 :asiekierka!2e0fa1c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.15.161.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310992076 658732 :asiekierka!2e0fa1c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.15.161.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1310992090 398189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also my left kidney." < 1310992091 57554 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1310992105 135822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, FFS, tell me when you leave messages. < 1310992116 784728 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want me to leave a message when I leave messages? < 1310992131 990909 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember leaving any, those must be from at least yesterday. < 1310992159 812755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 hours ago. < 1310992168 510117 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's basically yesterday. < 1310992191 678141 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pretend you're in California < 1310992193 534877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that it was today, then yes. < 1310992874 68737 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rain looks nasty < 1310992987 104588 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I was about to say "oh, what a coincidence; it's raining here too" but then I... yeah. < 1310993027 813956 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still outstanded by that coincidence < 1310993035 849986 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereabouts in Hexham do you live? < 1310993049 683545 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO CHANCE < 1310993065 836496 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me an East or a West < 1310993081 336195 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMMM MMMM M MMMMF < 1310993096 210192 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fine < 1310993152 526842 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote you have become < 1310993156 159455 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :498) elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for! < 1310993331 624520 :asiekierka!2e0fa1c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.15.161.194 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1310993808 404253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone recommend a wireless router, quick. < 1310993886 760810 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Linksys. < 1310993906 950001 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Does it have to be a modem too? < 1310993911 345535 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1310993921 643027 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So you have a separate ADSL modem? < 1310993925 130949 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or cable or whatever. < 1310993928 20093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1310993939 698654 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/UK/en/products/WAP54G < 1310993945 220350 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For extra niceness run OpenWrt on it. < 1310993965 439772 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I technically haven't used that Linksys router, but I own one and let's face it, I've never heard a single person do anything but recommend it.) < 1310993986 626503 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But < 1310993987 182750 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC with 300MHz or Faster Processor < 1310993987 443359 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :128MB RAM Memory < 1310993987 641383 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet Explorer 5.0 or Netscape Navigator 6 or higher for Web-based Coniguration < 1310993987 641548 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD-ROM Drive < 1310993987 839574 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 2000 or XP (to use the Setup Wizard) < 1310993992 75958 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will need IE5. < 1310994001 378244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, really? < 1310994005 8585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, seriously? < 1310994016 681813 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. < 1310994030 311934 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you want to "conigure" it. < 1310994050 872978 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1310994055 145433 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pro webdesign < 1310994076 240744 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WAP (at least some hardware revisions of it) has significantly less flash than the WRT, so running OpenWRT on it (at least some models) is a bit painful. < 1310994077 75097 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why'd you want to know a good router anyway. < 1310994086 127936 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh does it? < 1310994094 836376 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh well, nothing really wrong with the Linksys firmware is there? < 1310994105 831491 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, unless you REALLY want to run a web server off your router. < 1310994110 567749 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, unless you want to do Fancy Tricks. < 1310994126 542706 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a better wireless router by Linksys? < 1310994128 634729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, because the current one sucks to the extent that I have been using the neighbours' network exclusively for a month. < 1310994134 279849 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, http://www.linksysbycisco.com/UK/en/products/WAP54G < 1310994136 93674 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed it entirely. < 1310994148 928230 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1310994155 193741 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does the WAP even have Ethernet ports? < 1310994163 305127 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has one. < 1310994163 542946 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, one. < 1310994166 749670 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an access point. < 1310994177 424990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much the main difference between the WRT and the WAP. < 1310994181 155927 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah OK get the WRT54GL or WAP54G if you can't. < 1310994190 832518 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Their site is badly organised :-P < 1310994196 425562 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The routers section looked wired-only to me < 1310994199 486377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, what's the signal strength like? < 1310994215 717993 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's... what does that even mean? < 1310994221 88010 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been following Linksys hardware in the recent years, so I don't know what are their current models. < 1310994224 149034 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good? < 1310994227 751909 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they're all black and shiny and round. < 1310994229 478720 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't trust 'em. < 1310994241 347907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, well, I'm on the opposite side of the house to where the modem is. < 1310994241 625743 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean it has DUAL ANTENNAE. < 1310994244 517375 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like an alien. < 1310994247 237063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And moving it would be a chore. < 1310994266 745435 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I doubt you'll find anything with an especially better signal strength without, I dunno, buying some kind of super-expensive corporate Cisco router. < 1310994269 626098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need a newer thing if you want 802.11n, though. Unless they have modernized versions of the 54G series. < 1310994272 383868 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie can tell me I'm full of shit if he wants. < 1310994282 120642 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We don't have fast enough internet connections in the UK for n to matter :) < 1310994308 686707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you might want to hang some sort of NAS into a Ethernet port or something, I'unno. < 1310994311 767745 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRT54GL is 2005-vintage-ish, but. < 1310994320 424391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, hey, I theoretically have fibre optic broadband! < 1310994322 920920 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems there's a bunch of tangly spinoffs and the like. < 1310994332 95251 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The network projected by my WAP54G certainly has worked just fine through two non-load-bearing walls. < 1310994332 929249 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What speed do you get when plugged in via Ethernet? < 1310994349 819387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, perhaps I should have said 'ostensibly'. < 1310994359 711379 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That was a sincere question. < 1310994372 626802 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, I'm not actually sure. < 1310994379 898511 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just be really bad WiFi that's making it slow. < 1310994564 651451 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRT160NL seems to be the modernized version of WRT54G for OpenWRT purposes; at least it's on the list of supported hardware. In other ways it seems to have the standard-ish hardware configuration; one ethernet port for a modem/cable/whatever, a four-port ethernet switch for wiring things directly, and then the wireless. < 1310994584 209642 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes but. < 1310994586 9286 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's black and shiny. < 1310994589 899719 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. Cannot. Trust. It. < 1310994593 500197 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's like ten quid more expensive. < 1310994594 355142 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any personal knowledge of post-{WAP,WRT}54G* models. < 1310994604 395225 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does look more evil, that's for sure. < 1310994615 389624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: What speed do you get when plugged in via Ethernet? < 1310994639 877689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot just plug the computer into the modem and get a connection, but I suspect this is my fault. < 1310994657 889079 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does your router not have ethernet ports? < 1310994671 14136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1310994686 196603 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I plug the ethernet cable from the modem into my computer, nothing happens. < 1310994693 697218 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310994694 114394 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1310994694 313074 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1310994699 374856 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop confusing "router" and "modem", Phantom_Hoover. < 1310994719 530582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I confused 'router' and 'computer'. < 1310994725 61586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because they rhyme. < 1310994731 643428 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does your router not have ethernet ports? < 1310994749 821179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it doed. < 1310994752 698836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1310994755 42797 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Router? We hardly knew her!" < 1310994766 189238 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: then why are you plugging the ethernet into the modem. < 1310994786 561770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was because the router wasn't there or something. < 1310994810 743199 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a WRT120N < 1310994833 180428 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The WRT160NL has 40 units more of... stuff. Plus an L. < 1310994849 860997 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, recommend? < 1310994850 272834 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I have a WRT120N Gregor: The WRT160NL has 40 units more of... stuff. Plus an L. < 1310994851 667267 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :513) I have a WRT120N Gregor: The WRT160NL has 40 units more of... stuff. Plus an L. < 1310994857 598028 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's black and shiny. < 1310994864 524079 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pls to be trusting my superior judg- < 1310994865 357841 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 'snot bad. < 1310994866 562038 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is cheap. < 1310994873 68239 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'L' means it supports custom firmwares by the way. < 1310994880 906360 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supports as in actively supports. < 1310994883 917631 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/191548?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products < 1310994886 592914 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not hacktively supports) < 1310994888 564667 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Share and enjoy. < 1310994905 609800 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It also has over twenty more pounds :-P < 1310994926 805440 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, the 120N can't run OpenWRT. < 1310994932 539678 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but really. < 1310994943 499512 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not worth twenty pounds. :p < 1310994947 276205 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SHARE AND ENJOY < 1310994957 16356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL RIGHT OK < 1310994987 630687 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ONLY TWENTY-THREE QUID THAT'S A BLOODY BARGAIN < 1310994999 108676 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The native firmware is not bad at all, actually. < 1310995013 410583 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WITH CHEAPEST POSTAGE IT'S £27.16 < 1310995014 5143 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember using a ... WRT-wtf-some-old-shit and thinking "this firmware SUCKS I need DD-WRT" < 1310995019 202304 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the modern firmware is much better. < 1310995030 893671 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the Queen of France. < 1310995032 750790 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Any Linksys firmware would be godly coming from the ISP-supplied crap I'm using. < 1310995050 262746 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd-wrt always sets off my... marketing alarms. < 1310995064 433698 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are these people and why are they spending more time making a sleek website than coding. < 1310995074 91123 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: EXCUSE ME I JUST ADDED IT AND WORKED OUT THE CHEAPEST POSTAGE < 1310995076 448647 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SAVING YOU MONEY HERE < 1310995092 535356 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, there are these things called "stores" < 1310995096 239992 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go to them to buy things. < 1310995102 602261 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you have them immediately, no waiting for post. < 1310995110 717625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHERE I LIVE < 1310995117 334698 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Considering how much more expensive most of the sellers of those routers are... < 1310995131 511562 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm gonna say that buying it from the cheap, reputable online store is a better idea. < 1310995141 246372 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I DON'T BUT THE POSTAGE DIDN'T ASK FOR AN ADDRESS < 1310995146 433838 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> makeHash alphabet = fromList . zip $ (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] $ [0..] < 1310995147 553667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1310995153 393158 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> makeHash alphabet = fromList . zip $ (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] $ [0..] in makeHash "abc" < 1310995154 671268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1310995161 164451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let makeHash alphabet = fromList . zip $ (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] $ [0..] in makeHash "abc" < 1310995162 572877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[(a, GHC.Real.Rational)]' < 1310995162 770824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inf... < 1310995182 886600 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought my WRT120N for $40 last week. That's about £25 < 1310995195 901930 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Congratulations, you're in America where electronics are generally cheaper. < 1310995202 902431 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next on a series of really obvious things... < 1310995229 705039 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like you fail at being AMERICAN < 1310995234 862422 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul look at their accent < 1310995243 984219 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DON'T PRONOUNCE THEIR 'R'S < 1310995245 320526 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1310995277 187924 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that Brits don't pronounce our "R"'s is slightly unaccurate < 1310995286 75009 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We pronounce them when they begin a syllable < 1310995290 926779 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1310995298 60538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, that's inaccurate too. < 1310995298 258806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let makeHash alphabet = M.fromList . zip $ (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] $ [0..] in makeHash "abc" < 1310995299 470775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[(k, a)]' < 1310995299 692847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[b] ... < 1310995309 814253 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the local retailer sells this "cheap networking products" brand called "Netwjork". It sounds so incredibly reliable. < 1310995312 389823 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Also there are more accents in the British isles than in North America :P < 1310995314 458518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip < 1310995315 755535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] < 1310995328 787597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most English accents drop rs after vowels to a greater or lesser extent, yes. < 1310995343 124723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As do Welsh ones, IIRC. < 1310995363 82765 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a southern American accent < 1310995364 24598 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Netwjork WLAN router is 19.90 eur, so £17/$28. < 1310995364 605611 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scottish and Irish ones don't, with a very few exceptions. < 1310995366 382208 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the best of all. < 1310995386 809334 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Viking accents? < 1310995389 552774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually doesn't have much of an accent. He masks it pretty well usually. < 1310995391 672753 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Netwjork from Bjork < 1310995400 949368 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes your net just wjork < 1310995403 887479 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dood. General American accent can kick all your butts. < 1310995412 984914 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's covert enough that other southern people do not hear my accent, but people from other regions will still notice it a little bit. < 1310995415 433619 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make people's ears bleed by talking to them. < 1310995440 545932 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, IT'S LIKE EAR SANDPAPER < 1310995446 867788 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The General Americam accent is stupid. Now, a Midwest accent: that's a good accent. < 1310995448 461732 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why the fuck is this code not working. < 1310995462 877151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs has the best accent ever. < 1310995464 205650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, Australian accents are pretty cool. < 1310995466 601170 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The Midwest accent is the prototype of the GA accent :P < 1310995467 758129 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :way better than vim < 1310995479 654409 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ARE YOU GOING TO BUY IT < 1310995481 585450 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, my western US accent is shifting into a midwest accent :( < 1310995481 783311 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does GA have Canadian raising? < 1310995487 844052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, YES OK < 1310995492 286217 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No. Neither does the vast majority of the midwest. < 1310995497 352261 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1310995497 908678 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I agree tswett's native country's accent is sweet. < 1310995520 871248 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, a Hancock accent. :P < 1310995529 695313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let makeHash alphabet = M.fromList . zip ((`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..]) $ [0..] in makeHash "abc" < 1310995533 991340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1310995537 475055 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww... < 1310995549 837652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my incredibly efficient hash function does not construct very quickly or something. < 1310995559 263116 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to being infinite in size. < 1310995595 289859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Map isn't lazy? < 1310995667 119402 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for Map < 1310995667 680279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, also cheapest shipping on that router is useless. < 1310995670 615784 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use < 1310995673 616579 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookup < 1310995674 331557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b < 1310995676 675603 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why. < 1310995678 995701 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're gone for a week anyway. < 1310995681 266044 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hancock is the United States' Finnish outpost. It has a teleporter that takes you to Porvoo, Finland. < 1310995692 628628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, yes, so I don't exactly want it arriving to an empty house. < 1310995703 82110 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: not quite as efficient as the non-existence infinite Map. < 1310995706 600614 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes they will abandon it at the door so that ten people can steal it. < 1310995709 947923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the one that has to rebalance itself all of the time. < 1310995710 225592 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what will happen. < 1310995736 609096 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: would be kinda cool if it like constructed the tree on lookup, then like < 1310995737 390048 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cached it < 1310995742 315406 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Obviously, Porvoo has a teleporter that takes you back to Hancock.) < 1310995742 594917 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and morphed it next lookup < 1310995743 315644 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1310995748 22050 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes. < 1310995764 753826 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: is that even simple to do? < 1310995776 229844 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it makes no sense, so no. < 1310995796 873736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded pretty strange, but I wasn't sure... < 1310995835 628283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this coming from someone who is trying to implement a hash function as a Map. < 1310995865 855044 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Porvoo in particular? < 1310995920 180971 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I'm just trying to find as many uses as possible for the set-of-all-strings-in-an-alphabet thing. < 1310995928 932157 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the bishop of the porvoo diocese is pretty important in this conspiracy < 1310995934 782722 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash function is probably not one of them, I guess. < 1310996005 547817 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know; it wasn't my decision. < 1310996392 954163 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can assure you the teleporter definitely takes you to Porvoo. < 1310997222 805278 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we had a concrete metric for expressiveness < 1310997229 222102 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Haskell would rank pretty high. < 1310997419 884938 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess expressiveness has a lot to do with your available library. < 1310997477 165903 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :its generality or the conrete problems it solves. < 1310997571 636513 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can generate a powerset in Haskell as well as list all finite strings in an alphabet with two functions. < 1310997587 760223 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the standard library. < 1310998244 603704 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1310998377 874033 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1310998736 240048 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1310998917 960970 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311000470 850956 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311000471 307167 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 QUIT :Changing host < 1311000471 505639 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311001390 297629 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311001933 639566 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311001936 950268 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1311002440 525770 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1311002597 335799 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311002630 921361 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311003093 485092 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311003570 253356 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311005339 872400 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-68.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311005493 994091 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311005518 655646 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311005519 332778 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 QUIT :Changing host < 1311005519 531206 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311005861 641324 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311006446 568287 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311006508 428853 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1311007951 630063 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311008634 80740 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT : < 1311008672 269254 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311008684 504527 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :anafunctor < 1311009056 340573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311009062 2911 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311009090 230422 :anafunctor!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311009847 635028 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311009859 893183 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311009865 114284 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1311009872 350092 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deja vu face* < 1311009904 887521 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SD < 1311009979 773281 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311010335 136484 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311011040 723040 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311011385 663037 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311011509 90060 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311012207 64214 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they exist Knuth-style literate Haskell? < 1311012602 613708 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./esotope -v hello.sp < 1311012602 889521 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automatically guessed a kind "spoon" for the extension ".sp". < 1311012603 89616 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found a path with 4 processors (weight=25): stream --(10)--> spoon --(5)--> brainfuck --(9)--> interp-textio --(1)--> interp < 1311012605 678272 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1311012632 33367 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have to determine whether .bf belongs to Brainfuck or to Befunge... < 1311012709 107783 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use .b for Brainfuck so that .bf can be used for Befunge, it is what sometimes is used convention. < 1311012713 519298 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311012724 690646 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311012737 745524 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen .bf for brainfuck in the wild, so i wasn't quite sure about it. < 1311012781 585255 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is sometimes used. Although I believe the recommended convention is .b for brainfuck (which is also commonly used). < 1311012910 90809 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an idea for an esolang name: lingua abstrusa < 1311012995 580313 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and due to the obvious reason its preferred file extension would be a period followed by Unicode code point U+3164. < 1311013012 909315 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be declarative, if I understand declerative right. < 1311013013 107384 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :language names aren't as interesting as language ideas < 1311013058 215188 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Claudius patros Augusti est is equivalent to Augustus cliens Claudii est < 1311013094 673815 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People (the only data type) can have many clients but only one patron < 1311013142 993489 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :clauidus agricola est < 1311013172 116968 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each person has an occupation, e.g. agricola < 1311013193 859323 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupation is defined such as Claudius aricola est < 1311013205 482332 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are second declension < 1311013210 312912 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupations are first < 1311013220 9498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operations are based on occupation < 1311013325 173841 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupations can also be third declension < 1311013500 474126 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :agricolae res mercatori dare potest < 1311013529 949479 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mercatori res omnes dare potest < 1311013626 867015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : agricolae cibum facit < 1311013695 491706 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :artifices artes facit < 1311013763 903994 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :saceradotes I/O sunt < 1311013774 892519 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does this look so far? < 1311013948 413670 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone? < 1311014247 36588 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you like it < 1311014255 209088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more syntactic sugar < 1311014262 710015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs more syntax < 1311014325 578773 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1311014330 905861 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making a page on the wiki for it under my username < 1311014331 185095 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with that < 1311015078 867144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, suggest you look at Perligata. < 1311015099 282439 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also consider that esolangs built around syntax tend to suck. < 1311015508 279159 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfffft, that's just your opinion < 1311015524 807412 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to watch University Challenge now, bye < 1311015527 906067 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the point is to have unusual syntax... < 1311015581 301684 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes .bef is used for Befunge, since it's more unambiguous. < 1311015589 574949 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course .b93/.b98. < 1311015664 123404 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION invents a trivial alteration of Brainfuck called BeFuck. The only differences between BF and BeF are 1) that < and > are swapped for { and }, and 2) the file extension is .bef < 1311015691 625971 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311015693 974971 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1311015787 139704 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a name like BeFuck, the only difference SHOULD be a terrible C++ API and fanatic devoted followers. < 1311015840 262247 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider me a devotee < 1311016012 941862 :hiato!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1311016013 180086 :hiato!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za QUIT :Client Quit < 1311017399 967427 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311017422 27350 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was the university challenge < 1311017428 150019 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good < 1311017433 808703 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clare college Cambridge won < 1311017434 507306 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1311017450 839564 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beat Winchester college Oxford 190-180 < 1311017461 227833 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311017565 52791 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ugh*. So, I found out that my drive needs 4k alignment, but doesn't report that. < 1311017585 498681 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a *royal* pain to change the start of an LVM PV. < 1311017600 543549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311017615 320367 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, "I'm probably going to have to start shuffling shit." < 1311017637 649194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shuffling shit is not very fun, i think < 1311017664 143749 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was one of the Twelve Tasks of Herakles < 1311017682 231308 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Shuffling my partitions so that I can have them start on 4k boundaries. < 1311017682 742912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed. so the moral is, use lots of water. < 1311017713 192353 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, for drives with 4k physical blocks, can double or triple IO performance. < 1311017749 47051 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for utterly *retarded* reasons, most drives report that they have 512 byte blocks. < 1311017765 952573 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, there is a scheme for reporting the drive's physical layout, but drives lie.) < 1311017791 183328 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they lie, if they told the truth the operating systems would just be so terribly confused by all the information < 1311017800 888976 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*And* sometimes the layout is offset. There is also a means of reporting *this*, but the drives lie about it too. < 1311017826 701273 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO CAN YOU TRUST < 1311017873 956315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION skips most of the logs today. < 1311017915 812356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do they exist Knuth-style literate Haskell? < 1311017939 508352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by knuth-style? \begin{code}...\end{code} is one of the supported styles, anyhow < 1311017948 102869 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I think my drive is 512 *bytes* off, too. :/ < 1311017961 454970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311017965 931697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other being "> " bird marks) < 1311018001 490189 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so the first block is just 1/8th block? and then the rest of the disk is filled with n+7/8 blocks? < 1311018016 361057 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "Knuth-style" I mean things such as: Table of contents, index, named chunks (which can be included in others), pretty printing, print out (rather than HTML), etc. Partially also the input format, but mostly I refer to the output presentation and how they work in general. < 1311018022 488782 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. < 1311018038 682011 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's a workaround so that a partition spanning the entire disk will pretty much work. < 1311018057 756248 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what isn't the norm in Linux-land? < 1311018069 211755 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the 512 bytes is for an MBR, basically? < 1311018072 272951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh. i don't know. maybe some of that if you also use haddock. istr it does not support reordering things though (and haskell doesn't really need that) < 1311018072 469043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, I happen to prefer Plain TeX + DVI rather than using LaTeX + PDF, although this is mostly a matter of preference) < 1311018074 742838 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311018088 403008 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the traditional layout required 512 byte alignment. < 1311018093 496976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since most haskell declarations can appear in arbitrary order) < 1311018142 774529 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: However, note cross-references. Also named chunks might be useful in case of very complicated expressions or something like that maybe..... < 1311018146 758751 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I could easily move my LVM partition 512 *bytes* towards the start, I'd be set up right. < 1311018161 958586 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, that is nontrivial. < 1311018180 978334 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd can probably do that :> < 1311018193 825595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the haddock-generated html on hackage does have many interior cross-links < 1311018229 88520 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fish generate all my HTML. < 1311018233 700580 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, but that is HTML. Not printout format. < 1311018309 765035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes also haddock isn't tex/latex based < 1311018322 426466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then Knuth-style does prettyprinting. < 1311018363 942613 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1311018488 994746 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to get 58 MiB/s writing to my filesystem. < 1311018507 681321 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *raw* performance of my drive being ~114 MiB/s. < 1311019056 431924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares at Taneb. like a cow. < 1311019079 744080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COAP? < 1311019086 888410 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's based on real events < 1311019087 857255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course < 1311019098 367270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311019122 699561 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I walked through a field with cows in it, and the cows stared at me < 1311019144 285216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you suddenly woke up with a lot of dead cows around, i assume. < 1311019173 855567 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That is exactly what happened. < 1311019178 813579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so. < 1311019205 958071 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if this esolang I'm making will ever be turing-complete < 1311019234 756836 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, it's more of a farming sim < 1311019238 587528 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IN LATIN < 1311019276 362815 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Taneb/lingua_abstrusa < 1311019293 102137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :urbs agricolae < 1311019295 104346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: have you seen Lingua::Romana::Perligata? < 1311019309 49063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably a bit different from what you're doing, but it's awesome < 1311019324 457068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nihil novi sub soli < 1311019353 443264 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a Perl dialect < 1311019373 684479 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say just, but a lot of work probably went into it < 1311019481 376990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clings to the illusion that "soli" may be a legitimate variation there < 1311019535 187109 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ave Damian Conway, facentes te salutant < 1311019551 303636 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lingas abstrusas facentes < 1311019561 85150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*linguas < 1311019566 742019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is facentes < 1311019573 953565 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They who make < 1311019583 846041 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From facio, facere < 1311019619 279322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok even i should have known that < 1311019638 145364 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lingua abstrusa is as close to esoteric language as I could be bothered to work out < 1311019657 142011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say < 1311020609 304092 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Bleh < 1311020678 250673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, you know that 'esoterica' is a Latin word, right? < 1311020690 964015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was Greek < 1311020707 54432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.latin-dictionary.org/esotericus < 1311020757 419592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION madly corrects Taneb's grammar < 1311020769 423973 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311020784 88753 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you people talking about polish constitution < 1311020788 600755 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain yourself oerjan < 1311020799 6490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: wat < 1311020809 536334 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUh < 1311020846 25599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: feel free to undo if you thought that was too mad < 1311020865 476332 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihil_novi < 1311020899 228529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if, heaven forbid, i actually got something wrong < 1311020954 223079 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, clickady-clickadilidoo < 1311021032 798301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: shut up, you mere peasant < 1311021081 824097 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, i come from a royal family < 1311021113 985319 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I may be part Sri Lankan < 1311021119 621958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so you're a _royal_ pain in the ass? < 1311021124 516569 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And part Spanish < 1311021136 367296 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm definitely English and Dutch decent < 1311021169 677361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls his mother's family had some dutch nobility way back < 1311021190 538807 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm peasantry as far as tracable < 1311021226 204739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tanebarajan < 1311021249 98427 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a friend who's grandfather was a peer < 1311021266 133445 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the house of Lords < 1311021278 859617 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yep! < 1311021283 519396 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That offers me some social standing, feudal system wise < 1311021288 59782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, norway abolished its aristocracy in 1814 < 1311021351 523670 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1311021363 661975 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :my family is older than any country i have lived in < 1311021366 678197 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cool is that < 1311021385 787320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so, Mr. Noah < 1311021436 910268 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 QUIT :Changing host < 1311021437 106982 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1311021446 185630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My family is Irish peasants as far as the eye can see. < 1311021450 765866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: lies.) < 1311021484 239540 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My family has bee traced back to the 26th of December 1613 < 1311021484 981723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my family is pretty much mostly norwegian fishermen afaik < 1311021494 637901 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Dutch guy < 1311021510 113448 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called Aris Jansz < 1311021519 808887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, ISTR that my family has been traced back to Rathlin, before which they were in Scotland which makes tracing it very hard. < 1311021656 767294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandmother was nessie < 1311021666 444050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely, oerjan, unlikely. < 1311021684 194078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT FITS SO WELL < 1311021702 792579 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nessie was in Loch Ness. Phantom_Hoover's family comes from the Hebrides < 1311021717 309325 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or as I like to call them, the Grooms < 1311021731 528739 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hebrides? < 1311021738 896271 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hebrides schmebrides < 1311021750 558050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously the people from the hebrides are hybrids, duh < 1311021766 531374 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Island group off the West Coast of Scotland < 1311021775 491938 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Taneb, I know that. < 1311021788 599229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you conclude that my family comes from there. < 1311021797 654351 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made it up for the sake of a joke < 1311021803 766590 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Do they? < 1311021808 89044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No./ < 1311021822 618841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how it works as a joke, though. < 1311021857 35428 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disprooving the nessie claim in a kinda stupid way < 1311021865 79593 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When there are more sensible ways to do it < 1311021882 568445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spits out his drink after reëntering #jesus. < 1311021886 933404 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I pointed out the spelling of the island group looks like he-brides < 1311021890 731667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : islam was not created by christianity < 1311021890 928544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it was created by fake christianity < 1311021890 928733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : called roman catholicism < 1311021914 640203 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What? < 1311021938 267529 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Islam, like Christianity, was created by a bunch of people doing what a Jew told them to do < 1311021960 839274 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere in the Middle East < 1311021981 828822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i'm not sure that is much more accurate than what Phantom_Hoover quoted < 1311022002 815039 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus and Mohammed were both Jews < 1311022007 623097 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Middle East < 1311022021 375306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall ever hearing that mohammed was a jew < 1311022044 156514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Mohammed wasn't. < 1311022051 184551 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP supports me. < 1311022134 538493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc muhammed was from a pagan tribe < 1311022146 326277 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, prove me wrong < 1311022170 268411 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, they both have Judaism as a major influence < 1311022368 984946 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, my ancestry has been traced back to the probably 16th century < 1311022377 40000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Muhammad’s denunciation of the Meccan traditional religion was especially offensive to his own tribe, the Quraysh, as they were the guardians of the Ka'aba." < 1311022396 994567 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parents of someone who got married in 1611 < 1311022471 302478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"About five generations before Muhammad the situation was changed by Qusai ibn Kilab. By war and diplomacy he assembled an alliance that delivered to him the keys of the Kaaba, an important pagan shrine which brought revenues to Mecca because of the multitude of pilgrims that it attracted." < 1311022515 26005 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, fine, I'm wrong < 1311022600 680283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a small victory dance < 1311022962 387334 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311023522 268744 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1311023545 168101 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311025180 533560 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-68.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311027518 499594 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311027628 424667 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311028447 466265 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311028526 394675 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Cookin' < 1311028594 743048 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311028602 17949 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1311028604 241210 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS < 1311028606 113883 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONNECTION < 1311028636 949782 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it fucked. < 1311028660 427669 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311029509 348443 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers it fucked < 1311029612 497566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311029715 446609 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311029860 428354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1311030911 898250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1311030913 438277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311031744 924252 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311032263 786481 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311032263 786630 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311032263 786777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311032584 504046 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032584 701912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032598 947022 :comex!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311032605 892493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1311032614 408779 :comex!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032670 66100 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032687 948388 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311032775 450222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032823 88878 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311033501 472224 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311033560 754702 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1311033583 581255 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric