join (++) . (inits . repeat) =<< sequence $ "abc" < 1310905377 580610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' < 1310905377 916149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[[a1]]' < 1310905396 967528 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (++) . (inits . repeat) >>= sequence $ "abc" < 1310905397 900932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' against inferred type `a -> a1' < 1310905412 245358 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map join (++) . (inits . repeat) >>= sequence $ "abc" < 1310905413 204235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[m (m a)]' < 1310905413 396477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `m1 ... < 1310905415 779520 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1310905426 340088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map join (++) . ((inits . repeat) >>= sequence) $ "abc" < 1310905427 291144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[m (m a)]' < 1310905427 448470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `m1 ... < 1310905434 647028 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((inits . repeat) >>= sequence) $ "abc" < 1310905435 511373 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' against inferred type `a -> a' < 1310905435 669138 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: [[a]] < 1310905435 886282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: [a -> a] < 1310905445 602605 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh. < 1310905531 667405 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((++) `ap` reverse) . (inits . repeat) "abc" >>= sequence < 1310905533 260301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","c","c","b","a","aa","ab","ac","ac","ab","aa","ba","bb","bc","b... < 1310905561 643004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1310905595 80678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((++) `ap` reverse) $ (inits . repeat) "abc" >>= sequence < 1310905596 787397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","aa","bb","cc","aaaa","abba","acca","baab","bbbb","bccb","caac","cbbc",... < 1310905647 940851 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah, list of all palindromes in an alphabet. < 1310905688 13668 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nub "racecar" < 1310905689 15500 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "race" < 1310905716 39115 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((++) `ap` reverse) $ (inits . repeat) "race" >>= sequence < 1310905717 873414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","rr","aa","cc","ee","rrrr","raar","rccr","reer","arra","aaaa","acca","a... < 1310905735 586982 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere in that sequence is "racecar" :P < 1310905957 410700 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if only I had an isEnglishWord function.. < 1310906040 337033 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence < 1310906063 53203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is probably the more elegant alternative to (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] < 1310906069 414387 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that elliott was looking for. < 1310906075 869100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1310906077 507367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310906104 310550 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that means. < 1310906143 92488 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pleases the way my brain interprets the code" < 1310906146 720840 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric := elegant < 1310906199 916880 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From #haskell, pure elegance < 1310906200 496596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace "the code" with "it" for other things. < 1310906201 751293 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap (fmap fmap fmap) fmap fmap sum (fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap read) return show $ 635 < 1310906202 730272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 14 < 1310906309 777684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unpl fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap (fmap fmap fmap) fmap fmap sum (fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap read) return show < 1310906310 192687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap (fmap fmap fmap) fmap fmap sum (fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap read) return show < 1310906313 262002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1310906324 383496 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310906336 120694 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1310906339 665448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is anyone meant to know what that does? < 1310906341 153220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1310906346 659823 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sum . map (read . return) . show $ 635 < 1310906357 796276 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum . map (read . return) . show $ 635 < 1310906359 549082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do all the fmaps cancel each other out? < 1310906359 567023 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 14 < 1310906386 784825 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a digital sum calculator thing? < 1310906389 552365 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1310906390 498952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) a1 (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f1, Functor f) => (a1 -> a -> b) -> f1 a1 -> f1 (f a -> f b) < 1310906406 387538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : do all the fmaps cancel each other out? < 1310906407 645790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310906421 599691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like all the ones past three make no effect < 1310906422 846494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fmap < 1310906423 784907 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1310906423 961299 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is Neo. < 1310906424 309704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fmap fmap < 1310906425 187172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fmap fmap fmap < 1310906425 326756 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => f1 (a -> b) -> f1 (f a -> f b) < 1310906426 48559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) < 1310906426 131010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1310906426 980370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1310906427 222864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => f (f1 (a -> b)) -> f (f1 (f2 a -> f2 b)) < 1310906427 977731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1 b. (Functor f) => (a1 -> b) -> (a -> a1) -> f a -> f b < 1310906431 667177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I think I can vaguely work out why, too < 1310906432 623612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it cycles < 1310906441 338834 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1310906543 501782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a better way to generate every palindrome in an alphabet. < 1310906567 607758 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than what? < 1310906570 208619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((++) `ap` reverse) $ (inits . repeat) "abc" >>= sequence < 1310906571 947183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","aa","bb","cc","aaaa","abba","acca","baab","bbbb","bccb","caac","cbbc",... < 1310906578 93132 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310906593 997911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is pretty damn nice as is. < 1310906594 67690 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell Don you could do it better in Java < 1310906608 268046 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is wrong though < 1310906622 314559 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1310906623 226747 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it missed "a","b", and "c" < 1310906646 75349 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1310906653 404614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310906662 954045 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only does even lengthed ones < 1310906673 280948 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310906675 947115 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1310906682 887064 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aibohphobia < 1310906692 637774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: fear of palindromes? < 1310906695 660911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay, this is now a much more difficult problem. :P < 1310906697 124021 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fear of palindromes? < 1310906697 420027 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally < 1310906702 494788 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okie < 1310906709 253416 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the glare here is ungood < 1310906714 247952 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot see the screen < 1310906734 16954 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((++) `ap` reverse) $ (inits . repeat) "ab" >>= sequence < 1310906735 846674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","aa","bb","aaaa","abba","baab","bbbb","aaaaaa","aabbaa","abaaba","abbbb... < 1310906742 247838 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310906749 377774 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((++) `ap` reverse) $ (inits . repeat) "a" >>= sequence < 1310906751 16260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","aa","aaaa","aaaaaa","aaaaaaaa","aaaaaaaaaa","aaaaaaaaaaaa","aaaaaaaaaa... < 1310906762 952799 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get all the a's out of lambdabot < 1310906765 807803 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :E: monitor rot in Nome. < 1310906766 747486 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each even length palindrome there needs to be an number of odd palidromes equal to the number of elements < 1310906776 976443 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*number of characters in the alphabet < 1310906786 520492 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Too many n's < 1310906794 55128 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1310906795 111644 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where basically the alphabet character is concatenated in the center of the even length string < 1310906808 547646 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would give a, b, and c by performing this in the case of "" ++ "" < 1310906842 569461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each even length palindrome but the null string, you can create an odd length palindrome by removing one of the letters in the middle < 1310906871 349187 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately, you could delete on of the middle characters from the next rank of palindromes < 1310906878 515914 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1310906885 434049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid glare and ninjas < 1310906890 265613 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quit < 1310906890 450190 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds better? < 1310906906 617181 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the first option myself < 1310906926 15037 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1310906970 580011 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry < 1310906971 588964 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c < 1310906977 919069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry < 1310906978 794899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1310907032 837140 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zen E.C. nip pince-nez < 1310907054 838244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was late, my ball. Lab Y: metal saw. < 1310907060 377291 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be neat, if it meant anything < 1310907076 220991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Aye; rags gare ya. < 1310907082 343610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gare isn't... strictly a word. < 1310907086 401492 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do geese see god? < 1310907095 86476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDD < 1310907099 551113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1310907099 907217 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do nine men interpret? Nine men, I nod! < 1310907132 700992 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mary's on a nosy ram. < 1310907165 556620 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lager, sir, is regal. < 1310907170 216150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :S.L.: Like I 'e kills. < 1310907173 787817 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ninja, A.J. Nina. < 1310907176 881202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1310907184 143091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D D-X. < 1310907201 411711 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lonely Tylenol < 1310907223 700440 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dave saved. < 1310907224 231957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archaeology: ancient cry -- yrc tneicna ygoloeahcra. < 1310907229 105283 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's wrong < 1310907235 750293 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is opposition. < 1310907329 364608 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod $nar = "Finn" if random(). < 1310907346 853673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: wow < 1310907355 285335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: where do you learn your skills... < 1310907361 42316 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reviled did I live, said I, as evil I did deliver. < 1310907364 64799 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310907364 655434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1310907365 182851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: where do you learn your skills... < 1310907367 966816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310907368 365711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1310907369 804520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow lol wow < 1310907372 794330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my best palindrome yet < 1310907425 378051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modenil capra; ARPA-C line DOM. < 1310907433 256370 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. Once you see a lot of palindromes, they start to come easy :D < 1310907442 38558 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yrc tneicna looks like gaelic or something... could be a brand of whiskey < 1310907450 646077 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wednesday 'ad sen dew. < 1310907472 422036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: was that a palindrome < 1310907515 174585 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is open on one position. < 1310907570 507685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:Ooooooooo < 1310907689 105594 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence "abc" < 1310907690 129359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `m a' < 1310907690 282229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1310907694 739536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sequence < 1310907695 810531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => [m a] -> m [a] < 1310907709 429115 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an inverse sequence? < 1310907718 211203 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concat? < 1310907718 735045 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I mean. < 1310907731 562669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have "abc" I want ["a","b","c",""] < 1310907755 285813 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just learned that "Palin" is greek for "backwards"...this explains a lot about American politics < 1310907786 763336 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And certain travel documentaries made by a former member of Monty Python? < 1310907823 922337 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reverse . sequence < 1310907824 850063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [[a]] -> [[a]] < 1310907852 582140 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc"] < 1310907853 542179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["a","b","c"] < 1310907854 138375 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, not what I meant < 1310907854 412535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: map pure < 1310907856 909033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map pure "abc" < 1310907857 772670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (f GHC.Types.Char)) < 1310907857 929274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of... < 1310907862 262392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map pure "abc" :: [String] < 1310907863 228288 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["a","b","c"] < 1310907866 89986 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip sequence < 1310907867 75738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. a -> [a -> a1] -> [a1] < 1310907867 721282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also map return, map (:[]), etc. < 1310907877 19196 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just have to manually concat the []... < 1310907895 570970 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc", []] < 1310907896 549785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1310908009 792765 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (: []) looks like an angry robot < 1310908022 823190 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(:[]) < 1310908025 278937 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = map ((((,) `ap` reverse)) $ (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence >>= (\x y -> map (\z -> x++z++y) ([]:map pure alphabet)) `ap` reverse < 1310908026 285277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1310908032 351323 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = map ((((,) `ap` reverse)) $ (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence >>= (\x y -> map (\z -> x++z++y) ([]:map pure alphabet)) `ap` reverse in palindromes "abc" < 1310908033 325191 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1310908046 210371 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1310908052 754059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, that's messed up. < 1310908060 82102 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, yeah < 1310908070 192992 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence >>= (\x y -> map (\z -> x++z++y) ([]:map pure alphabet)) `ap` reverse in palindromes "abc" < 1310908071 946016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","c","aa","aaa","aba","aca","bb","bab","bbb","bcb","cc","cac","c... < 1310908086 244257 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as clean now though < 1310908092 814463 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see what pl has to say. < 1310908105 140783 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y -> map (\z -> x++z++y) ([]:map pure alphabet)) `ap` reverse < 1310908105 203815 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to :D < 1310908105 570140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (flip . (map .) . (. flip (++)) . (.) . (++)) ([] : map pure alphabet) `ap` reverse < 1310908111 961085 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful. < 1310908159 43225 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That output makes too much sense. I need sleep. < 1310908176 646941 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Off to watch the Puma Man and pass out before work. Adios, all < 1310908191 558633 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather < 1310908193 418590 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a fancier way to do that, but really the only way I can think of is to use >>= with a function that produces a list containing the even palidrome and its associated odd palindromes < 1310908196 707900 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Ida, adios. < 1310908259 731428 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I didn't need the empty string in the list I could simply pass alphabet to that map and use z:y instead of z++y < 1310908312 924485 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need the empty string? < 1310908322 484461 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing isn't a palindrome < 1310908328 108487 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is < 1310908334 478473 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y -> [x++y, map (\z -> x++z:y) alphabet]) `ap` reverse < 1310908334 988958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap (ap . ((:) .) . (++)) (flip flip [] . ((:) .) . flip flip alphabet . (map .) . (. flip (:)) . (.) . (++)) `ap` reverse < 1310908340 2473 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is "" backwards? < 1310908343 27817 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"". < 1310908343 986860 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing < 1310908355 22270 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, nothing is nothing backwards < 1310908360 890951 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no characters to order, so no order to reverse < 1310908404 278150 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence >>= (\x y -> [x++y, map (\z -> x++z:y) alphabet]) `ap` reverse in palindromes "abc" < 1310908405 171244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1310908424 972153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence >>= (\x y -> [x++y, map (\z -> x++(z:y)) alphabet]) `ap` reverse in palindromes "abc" < 1310908425 982516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1310908428 792379 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1310908446 256527 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, I'm talking about the empty string for the last part of the code < 1310908477 605369 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need the empty string so that mapping x++z++y will produce the even lengthed one < 1310908482 271325 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1310908513 698586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh... < 1310908552 380352 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence >>= (\x y -> (x++y) : map (\z -> x++z:y) alphabet) `ap` reverse in palindromes "abc" < 1310908554 101544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","c","aa","aaa","aba","aca","bb","bab","bbb","bcb","cc","cac","c... < 1310908559 194908 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's a little cleaner. < 1310908593 941293 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y -> (x++y) : map (\z -> x++z:y) alphabet < 1310908594 378621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 46): < 1310908594 684059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected end of input < 1310908594 702033 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator, ":", "++", "<+>" or ")" < 1310908596 510749 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y -> (x++y) : map (\z -> x++z:y) alphabet) < 1310908596 946811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap (ap . ((:) .) . (++)) (flip flip alphabet . (map .) . (. flip (:)) . (.) . (++)) < 1310908605 243932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map (\z -> x++z:y) alphabet < 1310908605 610669 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map ((x ++) . (: y)) alphabet < 1310908621 811777 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1310908623 930843 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much nicer < 1310908662 53617 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310908683 177241 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence >>= (\x y -> (x++y) : map ((x++).(:y)) alphabet) `ap` reverse in palindromes "abc" < 1310908683 488867 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310908684 906545 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","c","aa","aaa","aba","aca","bb","bab","bbb","bcb","cc","cac","c... < 1310908698 791305 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think the x and y variables are pretty much necessary to maintain clarity. < 1310908712 52032 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with this approach. < 1310908758 486711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "delete a character from the middle" approach might be shorter with the use of functions from Data.List < 1310908759 910633 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, but < 1310908779 799967 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x y -> (x++y)) just feels ridiculous < 1310908785 318991 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's (++) < 1310908801 71989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that's not the only thing there.... < 1310908822 787382 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. It just seems like some refactoring could get rid of that silly thing :D < 1310908832 699670 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (x y -> (x++y) : f) < 1310908833 158274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 6): < 1310908833 350655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected ">" < 1310908833 368849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or ")" < 1310908837 953170 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y -> (x++y) : f) < 1310908838 269564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip f . ((:) .) . (++) < 1310908863 92595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, no. < 1310908878 627553 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems not < 1310908880 820465 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is borderline okay. < 1310908889 33380 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much flip < 1310908893 727571 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess two flips and 3 compositions is where I draw the line. :P < 1310908906 327188 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested compositions confuse me somewhat. < 1310908916 795437 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? I kinda like 'em < 1310908931 690764 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I understand them in a way that is intuitive... < 1310908995 922985 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((.).(.)) < 1310908996 755491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) < 1310909009 875206 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, wait, that looks familiar < 1310909035 559303 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310909042 208354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((.).(.)).($) < 1310909043 67745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) < 1310909088 742448 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1310909089 842703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) a1 (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f1, Functor f) => (a1 -> a -> b) -> f1 a1 -> f1 (f a -> f b) < 1310909101 230589 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's why < 1310909122 851138 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I like this palidrome code so much I think I will save it. < 1310909127 655110 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap < 1310909128 534929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) (f2 :: * -> *) a b (f3 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2, Functor f3) => f (f1 (f2 (a -> b))) -> f (f1 (f2 (f3 a -> f3 b))) < 1310909132 47545 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's not something I can pull from memory. < 1310909136 965278 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good call < 1310909149 286034 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stick it up on hpaste or on the cafe < 1310909159 17900 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to be able to refer to it sometime :D < 1310909164 290069 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1310909182 1894 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((.)$(.)) < 1310909182 975294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => f (a -> b) -> f (f1 a -> f1 b) < 1310909377 748099 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0..] >>= (`replicateM` alphabet) < 1310909395 191991 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is also equal to (inits . repeat) alphabet >>= sequence < 1310909410 424413 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nicer, too < 1310909430 580409 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO nicer < 1310909438 587861 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? < 1310909469 46245 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah < 1310909472 471106 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FCVO < 1310909480 183379 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For certain values of < 1310909499 90850 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or for some, if I want to stick to my kind of wrong one < 1310909503 97956 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Control.Monad and Data.List are the only dependencies. < 1310909506 633599 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap is in Control.Monad right? < 1310909518 355612 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ap < 1310909518 838823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad ap :: Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1310909518 997851 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.ArtPoint ap :: Graph gr => gr a b -> [Node] < 1310909519 147638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Arrow app :: ArrowApply a => a (a b c, b) c < 1310909521 819338 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1310909542 503043 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle reverse < 1310909543 4670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude reverse :: [a] -> [a] < 1310909543 161732 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString reverse :: ByteString -> ByteString < 1310909543 179608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List reverse :: [a] -> [a] < 1310909553 913847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using replicateM I need only Control.Monad so... I'll do that. < 1310909557 32167 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle repeat < 1310909557 479616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude repeat :: a -> [a] < 1310909557 636439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List repeat :: a -> [a] < 1310909557 788762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Lazy repeat :: Word8 -> ByteString < 1310909559 885618 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle inits < 1310909560 379940 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString inits :: ByteString -> [ByteString] < 1310909560 536399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List inits :: [a] -> [[a]] < 1310909560 688494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 inits :: ByteString -> [ByteString] < 1310909565 991377 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, inits isn't in Prelude < 1310909598 807415 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM it is, then < 1310909638 417725 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/49129 < 1310909654 881886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let palindromes alphabet = [0..] >>= (`replicateM` alphabet) >>= (\x y -> (x++y) : map ((x++).(:y)) alphabet) `ap` reverse in palidromes "ab" < 1310909657 957687 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = [0..] >>= (`replicateM` alphabet) >>= (\x y -> (x++y) : map ((x++).(:y)) alphabet) `ap` reverse in palidromes "ab" < 1310909658 922662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `palidromes' < 1310909664 497469 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let palindromes alphabet = [0..] >>= (`replicateM` alphabet) >>= (\x y -> (x++y) : map ((x++).(:y)) alphabet) `ap` reverse in palindromes "ab" < 1310909666 283050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","aa","aaa","aba","bb","bab","bbb","aaaa","aaaaa","aabaa","abba"... < 1310909673 497485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just double-checking that the new version works. < 1310909782 364974 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. Now if we could just find some suitably opaque combinators equivalent to some of that... < 1310909821 477161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would be nice to somehow be able to have a map that also included an empty element of some kind, but I'm pretty sure that's not possible without using a lot of combinators. < 1310909830 632475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let strings = ([0..] >>=) . flip replicateM; palindromes = alphabet >>= (\x y -> (x++y) : map ((x++).(:y)) alphabet) `ap` reverse in palindromes "ab" < 1310909831 592662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `alphabet'Not in scope: `alphabet' < 1310909841 396656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let strings = ([0..] >>=) . flip replicateM; palindromes alphabet = strings alphabet >>= (\x y -> (x++y) : map ((x++).(:y)) alphabet) `ap` reverse in palindromes "ab" < 1310909843 52669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross < 1310909843 70879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","aa","aaa","aba","bb","bab","bbb","aaaa","aaaaa","aabaa","abba"... < 1310909874 595990 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd mainly like to reduce the lambda somehow. < 1310909882 230247 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the rest is quite fine. < 1310909933 596297 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, since I'm actually putting it in a file now I can define it as a function instead of using the lambda... < 1310909966 403422 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what to call it. < 1310910165 756485 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++ < 1310910184 119515 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say that why did I say that < 1310910227 344083 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++ATH0 < 1310910366 993025 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be a thing that you could disconnect a percentage of dialup users with a "ping -p 2B2B2B415448300D0A" command. < 1310910400 750487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat improved: http://hpaste.org/49130 < 1310910419 164520 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever need to import Control.Applicative I'll change ap to <*> < 1310910458 120486 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's purely cosmetic, everything I'm doing is purely cosmetic. < 1310910465 959711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I kind of like `ap` < 1310910562 521907 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably many sets of interesting strings you could construct with the [0..] >>= (`replicateM` alphabet) thing. < 1310910717 800666 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: use do syntax for non monadic code http://hpaste.org/49108 < 1310910722 818724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? is this a joke? < 1310910895 51752 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going now < 1310910918 528081 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it desugars into something that doesn't use any monad functions, so it ends up working < 1310911095 40198 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do 2 + 2 < 1310911095 58412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1310911095 58585 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you ever do that though. < 1310911095 58700 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310911095 58857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo do should constrain the type... < 1310911108 39631 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310911151 492976 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310911240 880402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do 4 +4; 3 < 1310911241 878227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instances for (GHC.Num.Num (m a), GHC.Num.Num (m b)) < 1310911241 986005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a u... < 1310911249 620897 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...good. < 1310911277 277271 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do x = x, do x;y = x >> y < 1310911560 57114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ABCD count as a stupid BF derivative? or is it worse than that? < 1310911565 396270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically BF restricted to +-,. < 1310911565 967930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1310911632 481713 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just a stupid BF derivative.. if that's literally what it is. < 1310911642 890687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well, commands renamed as usual < 1310911648 133112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310911654 105080 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, still. < 1310911666 291043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you go: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ABCD < 1310911683 382114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you could spawn threads of FSA that could communicate with each other... < 1310911688 721358 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be more interesting < 1310911762 629450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page is vaguely obnoxious < 1310911769 228614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was placed in a category specifically for the language, too < 1310911776 127549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost wondering if it's trolling < 1310911832 486976 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310912078 389103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no almost about it < 1310912163 285024 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310912888 369764 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310913101 894451 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310913120 910315 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1310913212 40530 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola < 1310913262 736752 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game cube Nintendo: cod net nine Buce mag? < 1310913575 79971 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310913681 49014 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: your palindrome makes no sense either forwards or backwards < 1310913703 307070 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't make sense < 1310914037 962497 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in take 20 primes < 1310914038 622950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :take 20 (fix ((`ap` tail) . (. head) . liftM2 (.) (:) . (. (filter . ((> 0) .) . flip mod)) . (.)) [2..]) < 1310914047 583049 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elegant. < 1310914073 100765 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am always impressed with pl's sense of taste < 1310914081 626442 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so constructive < 1310914100 377898 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should see pl's living room < 1310914125 939637 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would imagine there are no points. < 1310914162 824561 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is all very smooth surfaces, with no polka dot colors. < 1310914171 926994 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/colors/patterns/ < 1310914533 751306 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in join (zipWith (!!)) primes < 1310914534 695893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1310914534 884168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1310914554 822029 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? < 1310914561 239426 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join (zipWith (!!)) < 1310914562 122249 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' against inferred type `Int' < 1310914562 279090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: [[a]] -> [[a]] -> a1 < 1310914562 431116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: [[a]] -> [Int] -> [a] < 1310914576 921695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. < 1310914608 786997 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in zipWith (!!) primes primes < 1310914609 705668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral [a]) < 1310914610 44153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_120' at... < 1310914614 234986 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1310914627 767306 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-14.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310914632 440547 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith < 1310914633 429099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] < 1310914634 606414 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (!!) < 1310914635 597420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> Int -> a < 1310914653 109350 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in primes < 1310914654 76522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Integral t) => [t] < 1310914681 679126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in zipWith ((!!) `ap` fromIntegral) primes primes < 1310914682 630796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral [b -> c]) < 1310914682 823563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_12... < 1310914687 743630 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, what? < 1310914691 897397 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS THIS SO COMPLICATED. < 1310914729 740892 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (!!) `ap` fromIntegral < 1310914730 859360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. (Integral [b]) => [b] -> b < 1310914752 658354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... right. :P < 1310914780 704973 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in map (primes!!) primes < 1310914782 858060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,7,13,19,37,43,61,71,89,113,131,163,181,193,223,251,281,293,337,359,373,4... < 1310914790 631902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I wonder how I got so good at Haskell. < 1310914816 644680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, those are the prime numbers that are indexed by a prime number < 1310914834 874457 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were a number theorist, I'd probably give them some kind of goofy name. < 1310914870 759544 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or name them after myself: CakeProphet numbers. < 1310914930 570294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I am now slightly scared by Headshoots. < 1310914933 785431 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7,13,37,61,131,181,281,337... < 1310914951 384559 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have many interesting properties, such as being prime, and being nth prime numbers where n is a prime number. < 1310915014 111740 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in map (primes!!) $ map (primes!!) primes < 1310915018 33744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1310915040 36896 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...as you can see, finding the prime numbers indexed by CakeProphet numbers is somewhat time consuming. < 1310915049 126425 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I will go ahead and name them rank-2 CakeProphet numbers. < 1310915071 679545 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because as a number theorist this is ultimately where I get my kicks. < 1310915092 66664 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7,13,37,61,131,181,281,337... <-- CakeProphet numbers indexed by Prime numbers < 1310915117 752966 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, I'm going to run out of names. < 1310915126 189217 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can they be Taneb numbers? < 1310915133 302833 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose this is acceptable. < 1310915171 740141 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the key challenges of number theory is finding unique names for numbers that exhibit arbitrary and interesting properties. < 1310915197 146639 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written many papers on the subject. < 1310915205 533689 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many? < 1310915262 741690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... < 1310915278 407106 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :many. < 1310915288 686967 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "many"? < 1310915344 925162 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will just say that I have an Erdős number of -1 < 1310915384 589122 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oeis.org/A072677 < 1310915413 690291 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut? < 1310915417 570333 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1310915422 879540 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the CakeProphet numbers < 1310915429 919008 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also http://oeis.org/A117249 < 1310915497 772089 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I not attributed! < 1310915516 295311 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they were listed in 2002 and 2006 < 1310915554 296329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will just have to reword the definition. < 1310915771 7053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :A prime number p is a CakeProphet number if the powerset of the set of prime numbers contains exactly 2^q-1 subsets where p is the maximal element, and q is prime. < 1310915813 87334 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://oeis.org/login?redirect=/edit/new < 1310915920 120402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: is that powerset stuff a really complex way of saying "the qth largest prime number, where q is prime"? < 1310915940 149469 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1310915940 541543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1310915949 229506 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how you could infer such a thing. < 1310915960 419000 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four keystrokes < 1310915964 43555 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe Luc Stephens already published such a thing < 1310915971 206115 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift+y, e, and s < 1310915994 628598 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-53.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: run < 1310916133 95530 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter (elem primes . (-1) . logBase 2 . length . filterM (const [True,False])) primes < 1310916134 150210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [[t]]) < 1310916134 303002 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of syntactic nega... < 1310916163 113593 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter (elem primes . subtract 1 . logBase 2 . length . filterM (const [True,False])) primes < 1310916164 95321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[[t]]' < 1310916164 248351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Typ... < 1310916222 11472 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter (elem primes . subtract 1 . logBase 2 . length . filterM (const [True,False]) . (primes!!)) primes < 1310916222 910626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[[t]]' < 1310916223 67129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Typ... < 1310916230 561898 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1310916283 987784 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter (elem primes . subtract 1 . logBase 2 . length . filterM (const [True,False]) . (\x -> takeWhile (/=x))) primes < 1310916284 995711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[[t]]' < 1310916285 13650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Typ... < 1310916319 924239 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter (elem primes . subtract 1 . logBase 2 . length . filterM (const [True,False]) . (\x -> takeWhile (/=x) primes)) primes < 1310916320 910523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[[t]]' < 1310916321 62455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Typ... < 1310916327 831032 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably not try to program at this hour. < 1310916401 735682 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter (elem primes . subtract 1 . logBase 2 . length . filterM (const [True,False])) (inits primes) < 1310916402 827295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[[t]]' < 1310916402 979201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Typ... < 1310916512 697899 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my input is getting cut off. < 1310916618 634044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t inits < 1310916619 537467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [[a]] < 1310916708 365178 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t filterM < 1310916709 315637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m [a] < 1310916736 495465 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter (elem primes.subtract 1.logBase 2.length.filterM (const [True,False]))$inits primes < 1310916737 438362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[[t]]' < 1310916737 629183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Typ... < 1310916816 571824 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t elem < 1310916817 633112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Eq a) => a -> [a] -> Bool < 1310916821 847749 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....oh < 1310916835 849008 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter ((`elem` primes).subtract 1.logBase 2.length.filterM (const [True,False]))$inits primes < 1310916836 827264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int) < 1310916837 131860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of... < 1310916912 840042 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (/) < 1310916913 771353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => a -> a -> a < 1310916966 155475 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310916995 670432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it sure is incredibly stupid that logBase doesn't work with integral.. < 1310917009 481765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t logBase < 1310917010 372287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a -> a < 1310917109 375141 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toIntegral < 1310917110 351357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `toIntegral' < 1310917185 450650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Integral a) => b -> a < 1310917185 990559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ceiling :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1310917186 146689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude floor :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1310917186 298903 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude round :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1310917243 992571 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let primes = sieve [2..]; sieve (p:x) = p : sieve (filter ((>0).(`mod` p)) x) in filter ((`elem` primes).subtract 1.floor.logBase 2.(fromIntegral::Int->Float).length.filterM (const [True,False]))$inits primes < 1310917247 947181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1310917249 116654 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :success! < 1310917435 510378 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl flip (>>=) f g < 1310917435 953906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f =<< g < 1310917487 32558 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found myself using the monad instance of (e ->) much more now that I know how it works. < 1310917550 605485 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310917573 178721 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sequence < 1310917574 238581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => [m a] -> m [a] < 1310917599 962646 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t sequence [abs, (+1)] < 1310917600 856094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> [a] < 1310917610 392916 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence [abs, (+1)] 4 < 1310917611 534183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,5] < 1310917649 758564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join ((++) `ap` reverse) "hello" < 1310917650 782607 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m a) < 1310917660 369364 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. < 1310917705 489092 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join ((++) `on` reverse) "hello" < 1310917707 161854 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "olleholleh" < 1310917761 688106 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>=>) < 1310917762 634565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b c. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c < 1310917775 5637 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about these operators. Haven't figured out when to use them. < 1310917890 314582 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (>=>) < 1310917890 716663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Where did you learn to type? < 1310917905 132608 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: where did you learn to lookup sources? < 1310918159 434989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, is liftM equivalent to fmap? < 1310918164 797151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be < 1310918172 166429 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for monads, anyway. < 1310918203 559652 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310918264 418367 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM f m1 = do { x1 <- m1; return (f x1) } < 1310918331 553706 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not m1 >>= return . (f$) ? < 1310918343 774134 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think base is afraid of >>=.. < 1310918400 250627 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldM f a (x:xs) = f a x >>= \fax -> foldM f fax xs < 1310918411 123876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps just completely arbitrary about its use... < 1310918846 993111 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1310918856 782450 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1310919079 878430 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919543 649782 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919583 712669 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919628 755281 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919673 816026 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919723 876799 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919763 923451 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919813 971246 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919854 30915 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919894 75756 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919934 112823 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310919984 179579 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920024 237336 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920064 287392 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920114 350999 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920154 387313 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920194 440855 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920239 497195 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920279 545214 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920324 686720 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310920328 486730 :glogbot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310920335 696341 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310920348 486334 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, glogbackup didn't kick in. > 1310920418 245819 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920470 624822 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920510 991648 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920546 6890 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310920596 448431 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310920596 502371 :glogbot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310920604 18721 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310920604 541860 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310921190 822966 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310921202 679397 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1310921338 390690 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wrong answer. the correct answer is: if x is in the union, it is in one of the sets U_i by def of union. thus there's a ball around x completely inside U_i. but obviously the same ball is completely inside the union as well. so the union of open sets is open. < 1310921341 480253 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to take my sign into town because the weather looks... looming and my sign isn't waterproofed < 1310921359 283848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, when did you ask Sgeo a question? < 1310921373 443124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, just write it on your forehead. < 1310921388 595347 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for intersection, consider U = U_1 \cap ... \cap U_k, let u \in U and let B_{r_i}(x) \subset U_i for all i. now just take the smallest of the r_i, and it will of course be contained in all the U_i, and thus their intersection. < 1310921396 404610 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x \in U < 1310921407 845830 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've badly timed this < 1310921411 323463 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost dinnertime < 1310921414 450057 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, a finite intersection of open sets is open < 1310921415 151829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, FOREHEAD < 1310921419 12792 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yesterday < 1310921426 431502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 12 hours ago < 1310921437 908394 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do it tomorrow. Can't be bothered now < 1310921445 892888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and you expected Sgeo, who is inexplicably frightened of maths, to answer? < 1310921453 517863 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he proved the trivial cases < 1310921463 801776 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i left and apparently he didn't continue! < 1310921488 646640 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not that those two cases weren't trivial < 1310921666 285059 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, watching Doctor Who < 1310921679 383711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cglib why are you not working WHY < 1310921692 320722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package OpenGL-2.2.3.0 ... linking ... : /usr/local/lib/GeomAlgLib-0.2.0/ghc-7.0.2/HSGeomAlgLib-0.2.0.o: unknown symbol `__stginit_ghczm7zi0zi2_Maybes_' < 1310921700 641063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that even mean?? < 1310921715 227505 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :doctor who. i saw part of one episode of that and it reminded me of buffy the vampire slayer. < 1310921736 450503 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe i should watch it because buffy was an awesome show < 1310921745 311942 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote doctor who. i saw part of one episode of that and it reminded me of buffy the vampire slayer. < 1310921748 533992 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :508) doctor who. i saw part of one episode of that and it reminded me of buffy the vampire slayer. < 1310921753 624067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No HE. Sigh. < 1310921762 334560 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, HE is there. < 1310921765 435021 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS. < 1310921767 460482 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christopher Eccleston was the best of New Who. < 1310921823 989686 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1310922237 33105 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back > 1310922456 997010 JOIN :#esoteric > 1310922497 54811 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310922497 353598 :glogbot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310922499 920448 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310922500 352417 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310922502 337673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that even meant to mean? < 1310922526 364566 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunderstorm? < 1310922529 105759 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, recursive function, duh. < 1310922535 980291 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1310923172 589022 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-48.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1310923400 927025 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to do something radical < 1310923454 721471 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use this channel to make an esoteric programming language < 1310923484 373805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ban it. < 1310923497 449216 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :radical, eh? < 1310923530 285018 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you use this channel to make an esoteric programming language < 1310923549 556980 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By throwing ideas at people < 1310923554 810993 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And seeing what bounces off < 1310923668 383894 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Taneb < 1310923696 683721 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310923707 852558 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this discrete math everybody keeps going on about. < 1310923717 565027 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very stealthy < 1310923727 5827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha. < 1310923744 272175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise that discrete is spelt differently to discreet, right/ < 1310923763 708063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't letting that get in the way of a good pun < 1310923892 132918 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1310923908 15764 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that esoteric programming language I was going to make... < 1310923917 801641 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Guest87848 < 1310923928 346410 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is not as important as helping me to get cglib to work. < 1310923946 389085 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help you with that < 1310923965 420785 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone here help Phantom_Hoover get cglib to work? < 1310923975 552232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1310923978 158130 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are terrible. < 1310923985 577369 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im terible < 1310924022 935421 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you should just die. < 1310924074 140864 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's no real definition, but if you want something other than a list of fields that are usually considered discrete, i can share my own heuristic: discrete math is stuff that starts with a finite set, non-discrete math starts with the reals. < 1310924102 974576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, but there are all these people talking about it as a school-level thing. < 1310924115 958335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Americans, of course, but whatever. < 1310924156 514417 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are real numbers defined in school level? < 1310924250 131873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: discrete math is not really done that much in unis < 1310924260 307301 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in math < 1310924266 75527 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, graph theory is discrete, no? < 1310924269 955731 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, certainly < 1310924281 629459 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has strong connections with analysis < 1310924295 179026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... does? < 1310924298 742245 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, dinnertime < 1310924301 151613 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so depends on your view really, the way i've done it and seen it done it's definitely discrete < 1310924301 986311 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1310924305 419417 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PART :#esoteric < 1310924345 405053 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well afaiu people get serious boners having planar graphs w.r.t. different topological spaces and shit like this < 1310924356 312534 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh, right. < 1310924378 418029 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about it, but someone here once said graph theory is just algebraic topology < 1310924383 729037 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1310924458 1603 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1310924504 754492 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for instance symbolic dynamics, which is very discrete, is originally a tool for handling dynamical systems in general; dynamical system = topological space and a finite set of continuous functions on it (transformations say), mapping points around in some fun way, symbolic dynamics splits that space into a finite partition and considers the symbolic sequences obtained by taking one partition element and seeing on top of which partition elements it < 1310924528 740952 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1310924565 740728 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the discrete branch symbolic dynamics has given linear algebra one rather big number theoretical type result, and linear algebra is the most important tool in symbolic dynamics; so again strong connections. < 1310924581 193469 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(linear algebra is not at all discrete, since it starts with the reals :-)) < 1310924868 6006 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also graph theory has connections with linear algebra probably since symbolic dynamics mostly studies SFTs and sofic systems, which on the other hand are just sets of possible paths in a finite graph. < 1310924880 616179 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i assume graph theory also cares about such paths < 1310924892 142593 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you prolly ask different kinds of questions < 1310924894 953835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*although < 1310925856 717928 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310925865 926199 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1310926164 556747 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1310926259 222026 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonna switch clients < 1310926278 766492 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PART :#esoteric < 1310926314 293144 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310926321 159790 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1310926780 452749 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :had Duck Madras for dinner < 1310926942 246079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i shall use the common kitchen. < 1310926976 915486 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seriously hope no one comes there while i'm "cooking" < 1310927356 738290 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-169-11.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1310927532 391871 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more double redirects! < 1310927534 767382 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310927642 730735 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Numberwang is tied fourth page for most categories < 1310927979 220052 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "12! 4.4! 92! 10! 49.8! 2! 2! 2!" do? < 1310927993 919388 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can change < 1310927995 855958 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on where it's used < 1310928008 846620 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When more than where < 1310928017 390489 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1310928027 188692 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, wouldn't 12 just run 3 which runs that program...? < 1310928060 354155 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" its position in the program, and the step number is calculated." < 1310928061 674178 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp < 1310928068 118777 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of numberwang categories, how is it self-modifying? < 1310928083 737267 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was when I made the page < 1310928092 789382 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misunderstood, been meaning to remove that < 1310928134 771833 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Refresh? < 1310928141 241039 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for usability unknown, I'd say it's unusable for programming < 1310928197 629550 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1310928205 309802 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually quite easy to write a Hello World program < 1310928211 547550 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just nobody's bothered < 1310928244 453156 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a quine exist, or is that weird exception in play? < 1310928260 65348 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quine probably exists < 1310928281 716898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what weird exception? < 1310928304 669521 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, something about not being able to do arbitrary outputs at arbitrary points < 1310928325 330134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, are you confusing this with arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point? < 1310928333 763260 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be < 1310928400 935012 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon the shortest possible quine in Numberwang, excluding the null program, would abuse the numberwang operation a lot < 1310928409 22289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, if arbitrary ASCII output isn't allowed, then yes, a quine is impossible. < 1310928457 486378 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output is bit-by-bit < 1310928481 775997 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if arbitrary ASCII output is possible, but requires something difficult, like brute-forcing a hash < 1310928500 623240 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how that would work as a language
< 1310928507 687154 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides the boring trivial way < 1310928510 946229 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it and see, Sgeo < 1310928548 669898 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not boring way: Output commands are collected then hashed and the hash is displayed as output < 1310928578 158278 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, does every possible SHA-1 hash (or maybe MD5, not sure which to go with) have at least one corresponding input? < 1310928726 955789 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly have no idea < 1310928802 745093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably impossible to tell < 1310928810 695585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as hard as reversing every hash < 1310928841 785333 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF derivates are boring, but I'm too uncreative to come up with another ... underlying structure for what is essentially only an idea for how to do output < 1310928870 377764 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so, that would make it unknown whether a quine exists, or whether cat programs are possible. < 1310928879 280593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays, I favour the idea of "incremented ASCII" for output, you output, say, 11 for newline or 33 for space < 1310928883 616995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you can have EOF=0 without a clash < 1310928913 993967 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For output? Isn't input what that's more necessary for? < 1310928921 586359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1310928925 798232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be symmetrical < 1310929068 512737 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I finish this Doctor Who series, I'll write up my BF derivative < 1310929078 631777 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I do agree that BF derivatives suck < 1310929098 899377 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too boring for anything else .... ooh, hash-reversing-based computation too? < 1310929116 660770 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that whether it's TC or not is dependent on whether there's a reverse for every hash < 1310929138 114211 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why do I have a feeling others have done this before, except with other "unknown" questions? < 1310929202 15069 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oozlybub and murphy < 1310929300 787314 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way of EOF=0 without clash is if you have more than 8-bits numbers you can make it so that 256 means output 0 byte, 1 or 257 means output 1 byte, etc. It can be used for input, too. There might also be other possibilities. < 1310929477 91526 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1310929740 953475 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing a Hello World program in Numberwang < 1310929817 993346 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It starts 2! 1! < 1310929818 191457 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310929824 513318 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay :P < 1310929884 693104 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if you don't do any jumping you don't need to be that careful with phases, i think < 1310929920 42118 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you are using jumps < 1310929989 344784 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just thinking that the beginning of the program is also the perfect spot to put a 3! command if you want to enter that easy row in my table < 1310929990 125881 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not < 1310930011 863223 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then the step number will be 1 when entering the subprogram < 1310930038 680329 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's handy < 1310930047 835225 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program starts with 3! now < 1310930057 599527 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've got moon chavs in my head < 1310930064 95767 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1310930104 677873 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a song < 1310930122 497544 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :About a feature of the British population < 1310930127 463735 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lowest of the low < 1310930132 972969 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chavs" < 1310930145 614461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310930251 469676 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the safe numberwang flips the cell after where you start and the one after that < 1310930263 517716 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ends up in the one after the one where you start < 1310930276 644826 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you begin with [0...] < 1310930294 506777 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You end up with [0,1,1] with the current cell as the first "1" < 1310930303 622165 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...0..., iirc it's two-sided? < 1310930317 986848 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1310930329 649765 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can ignore that < 1310930332 701238 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...are you talking about bi-infinite sequences over a finite alphabet? < 1310930348 697565 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly < 1310930353 743567 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1310930358 982119 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: over {0,1} yes, since that's what a numberwang tape is < 1310930360 774930 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1310930386 15580 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, kay < 1310930411 739068 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine writing a quine in Numberwang < 1310930415 656616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, nononononono, it's just 'okay'. < 1310930431 960134 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the next command after the 3! will have the _same_ step number (mod 9), but of course incremented position < 1310930452 472679 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: heh, that should be possible < 1310930461 713169 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i just expanded it into its little known second origin < 1310930463 630713 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maddening < 1310930530 9644 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well verbose, for sure < 1310930577 637735 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the shortest would use the numberwang operator in various imaginitive ways < 1310930645 16652 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...This would be a lot easier if the Numberwang operator's program was 1 number shorter < 1310930663 261829 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't < 1310930668 910666 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confusing myself < 1310930699 579254 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a _bit_ easier, since you could then put several 3!'s in a row, but you would have to get lucky with which bits you needed < 1310930714 619524 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to print < 1310930769 812267 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's just 1 too long for that, you'll need some padding. oh hm. < 1310930796 679866 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 commands of padding, i think < 1310930811 66730 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be a nop if it fits < 1310930839 808494 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, wait a mo < 1310930857 942536 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a 1,0,1,0 nop) < 1310930858 140889 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Numberwang sub-program has a length of 8 < 1310930876 60856 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The corresponding commend has a length of 1 < 1310930879 931796 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+8=9 < 1310930894 214426 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which retains mod-nine-ness < 1310930895 380274 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, so the step number will be back to the same for the next main command < 1310930903 570151 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the position will be incremented < 1310930909 991501 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant < 1310930955 99670 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, World!" actually starts 3! 2! 1! < 1310930991 431348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4 padding commands will increment the sum of step and position by 8 < 1310931020 535855 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting back in phase for another 3! < 1310931020 770887 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean two < 1310931030 260079 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean combined < 1310931107 845746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, HOMESTUCK UPDATE < 1310931111 506034 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND FEDORAFREAK IS IN IT < 1310931115 260163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORDS CANNOT CONTAIN MY JOY < 1310931125 585845 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TELL ME AS WELL < 1310931130 126085 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I READ HOMESTUCK < 1310931169 829901 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: um with 3! 2! that 2! will enter the numberwang program again right, but not at the easy row i think... < 1310931175 423605 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, YES BUT YOU DIDN'T SHARE IN THE EXPERIENCE < 1310931214 949166 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would, because the two will change the step counter from 9 to 10 < 1310931219 264873 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 mod 9 = 1 < 1310931268 142106 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god he's going to god tier isn't he IT'S ALL TRUE < 1310931272 872788 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: but the position is 1 now... < 1310931282 737252 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1310931292 990475 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subprogram has its own position < 1310931309 671719 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that works then < 1310931404 827340 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that means that you need 9 commands of padding to get back to the right step number if you need to change the bit < 1310931489 414396 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally you'd want to set up the bits so that is rarely necessary < 1310931977 304712 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3!2!1!0! handily outputs the first four bits < 1310932198 9586 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310932279 880312 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, I'm not going to learn Haskell just yet <-- AAAAAAWWWWW < 1310932285 670520 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1310932321 407530 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1310932345 795565 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-192.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1310932363 25286 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to know a haskell coder on yahoo.. before i left yahoo < 1310932393 750378 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so recall yesterday or a year ago or whatever anyway i told ya i decided to eat my pizza and found that i had already eaten it. < 1310932394 489031 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1310932395 470278 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadn't < 1310932398 654808 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in the microwave < 1310932416 110150 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumptions. < 1310932424 147394 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :never trust em < 1310932445 535440 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or memory < 1310932457 356887 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopolzheimer < 1310932458 859001 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that assumptions really come to life when it comes to "who did this?" < 1310932469 936569 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can't find it" "someone must have stolen it" < 1310932522 380795 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do let {x = 1}; x+2 < 1310932523 702140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1310932528 966224 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do let {x = 1}; x+2 < 1310932555 45375 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ do let {x = 1}; x+2 < 1310932555 456565 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent < 1310932570 769516 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a difficult idea to break if you have it in your head < 1310932590 226198 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you don't deduce things and make associations, you are a stone < 1310932605 357303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they relaxed the typing of do expressions somewhere been EgoBot's and lambdabot's haskell versions < 1310932636 121555 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :prescribing omnipotence to someone causes a lot of problems < 1310932644 545011 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably to make that rebindable syntax stuff work better < 1310932667 409569 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in other words, you can't model a human as a discrete system. maybe noone else does something that dumb < 1310932680 534717 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i seem to do it < 1310932691 625395 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:56:24 < itidus20> to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent < 1310932694 633095 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1310932701 737721 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm being literal. < 1310932717 704423 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a >>= f = f a + 1 in do x <- 3; 2*x < 1310932718 895085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instances for (GHC.Num.Num (m (m b)), GHC.Num.Num (m b)) < 1310932719 312422 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from... < 1310932719 510574 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception < 1310932723 6742 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no rule which applies to someone all of the time < 1310932731 98097 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm human. all the time. < 1310932735 140665 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh that was a bit too much to hope for < 1310932735 338620 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1310932742 126072 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about tautologies < 1310932748 221179 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, but what is a human ( :-s ) < 1310932761 295697 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm stretching < 1310932767 87526 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm alive except when I'm not < 1310932770 609318 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a human is a stage in evolution < 1310932778 589511 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a rule now I'm omnipotent < 1310932782 228168 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im stretching too far < 1310932819 411536 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you admit that to be alive has an excetion ^_^;; < 1310932821 124626 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't get how you jumped from "follows a rule precisely" to "must be omnipotent" < 1310932847 156939 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok.. uhh < 1310932860 64811 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying my no true scotsman logic. < 1310932903 417558 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming a human behaves according to a rule, without exception, is to assume they are omnipotent < 1310932929 762104 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: This presumes that obeying the rule requires omnipotence. < 1310932942 245281 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all rules possess that property. < 1310932944 216376 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to obey a rule without exception does < 1310932948 823747 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1310932950 506624 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310932960 645655 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't. < 1310932961 520565 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ok now this is getting interesting < 1310932976 375585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, allow that collections of rules are themselves rules. < 1310932988 69252 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the rule is "Think while conscious"? < 1310932988 555035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, allow that the set of possible exceptions is finite. < 1310933036 887530 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Following a rule allowing for exceptions is therefore itself a rule. < 1310933037 916491 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought obeying a rule without exception means your not omnipotent < 1310933052 567424 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Not if you are doing so willfully. < 1310933070 155921 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Then, you can be omnipotent but willfully not exploiting it. < 1310933105 766319 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, a good example might be to say of a fighter that he never loses < 1310933126 203329 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he truely never lost then he would be omnipotent < 1310933138 787211 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) and this accounts for every case? < 1310933141 617380 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) no it doesn't mean that < 1310933156 366355 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1310933161 734798 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you mean rules of the form "can do x" < 1310933202 967346 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could try to fight him but be guaranteed to lose < 1310933258 450976 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Not rules are such that obedience requires omnipotence, however. Ergo, your claim is false. :) < 1310933271 931519 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that doesn't even require omnipotence. < 1310933282 132280 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that he be stronger than everything else that fights. < 1310933311 443789 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe itidus20 isn't using omnipotence to mean what we think of as "omnipotence"? < 1310933314 789592 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was better at logic i probably wouldn't need to argue about such a thing < 1310933323 336850 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and might be happier in life < 1310933334 181764 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :logic certainly makes you happy < 1310933334 667786 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case his argument fails for inattentive use of vocabulary. :) < 1310933411 761786 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking in general is the way to happiness. only someone who does not spend all day thinking about whether life has any kind of point can truly get depressed. < 1310933434 600542 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :something starts the thinking off though < 1310933447 602562 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a scab forming in response to an injury < 1310933458 130997 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what? Are you saying chemical imbalances cannot occur in phlosophers? < 1310933480 333068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's incredibly obvious sarcasm. < 1310933490 972586 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hoped it was < 1310933510 131846 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :added the "whether life has any kind of point" just to make sure < 1310933536 566161 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1310933548 400835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgive you < 1310933557 855544 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo the famously bad at responding appropriately to sarcasm bisexual < 1310933564 187406 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310933596 348902 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get where this "Sgeo is famously bisexual" meme is coming from < 1310933602 43286 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that as Sgeo is famously bad at responding to "the sarcasm bisexual" < 1310933610 659808 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a quote i saw on a forum signature once about some yeast talking to some vinegar(i forget exactly what?) blissfully unaware that they were in the process of becoming bread < 1310933610 961554 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : if i was better at logic i probably wouldn't need to argue about such a thing <-- applying logic to omnipotence probably does not work very well. perhaps for similar reasons to russell's paradox. < 1310933612 463100 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering, who's the sarcasm bisexual? < 1310933616 154817 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310933624 138117 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :' I still don't get where this "Sgeo is famously bisexual" meme is coming from' <<< classic Sgeo :D < 1310933626 985180 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: purpose of life < 1310933634 802497 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, where did that come from. < 1310933645 971060 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's non-classic Sgeo? < 1310933660 148027 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^Let me guess, that's more classic Sgeo < 1310933667 876766 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it was that crystal-cola troll, but then I looked at the logs and crystal-cola said that stuff in response to famous bisexuals. < 1310933682 848947 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a list of famous bisexuals on wp < 1310933691 522369 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found that hilarious < 1310933691 720142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No there isn't. < 1310933698 663225 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a list of lists of famous bisexuals. < 1310933709 841465 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1310933714 717522 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway even better < 1310933720 247606 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it occurs to me that I know someone who's bisexual who co-authored a chapter of a textbook < 1310933741 247817 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It wasn't me < 1310933752 660686 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not bisexual < 1310933769 841690 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: obviously it would've been me in this case, since Sgeo was responding badly to my sarcasm < 1310933772 53106 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor have I co-authored a chapter of a textbook < 1310933809 489366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accused oklopol of being openly heterosexual once < 1310933836 365982 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1310933839 506145 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe i have disclosed my sexuality < 1310933855 529182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1310933857 772357 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even a quote about it < 1310933896 884805 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess for all intents and purposes i'm straight tho < 1310933941 516822 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all intents and purposes **it usually doesn't matter** (I think) < 1310933972 213631 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i mean intents and purposes where it does matter < 1310933975 48520 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the purpose/intent of matchmaking < 1310933978 58001 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310933996 132425 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sexmaking < 1310934011 778256 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Willing sexmaking, in anycase < 1310934017 595040 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1310934018 504290 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for those purposes it would matter. < 1310934053 248875 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't matter for purpose of co-authoring a textbook. < 1310934072 360828 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that much no < 1310934082 68480 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1310934097 923298 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the textbook involves personal sexual experiences. Which would be a really weird textbook. < 1310934111 762277 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha this bubbly water thingie has added calcium and it says "scientifically proven to be a good source of calcium" on the bottle < 1310934150 732855 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they actually made scientists test the added calcium was actually in there after the fact just to be able to add that :D < 1310934174 116831 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's things like that why people don't trust science < 1310934235 619952 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310934266 619954 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would be interesting? < 1310934279 306068 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be interesting? < 1310934280 659049 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BCT interpreter in Dwarf Fortress < 1310934301 581039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's already a computational system in DF. < 1310934308 819320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My DVI optimizer program works! Tell me if you have other suggestions related to such program. < 1310934356 417600 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DVI?) < 1310934367 570782 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like pdf < 1310934373 158823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except older. < 1310934373 437108 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Device Independent format < 1310934384 821212 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And used by noöne except zzo38, because he's nuts. < 1310934393 790251 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use it every day < 1310934406 630045 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-167-114.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310934415 361082 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's only really used as an intermediate form for TeX. < 1310934419 613220 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most reliable latex output format on my system atm < 1310934438 624913 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, it *was* invented in the nasty old days before Postscript. < 1310934440 845792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It can be; the final format would be the printer's native format, such as PCL or whatever. < 1310934456 652363 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :something wrong with pdf output and my ps viewer is horrible < 1310934458 234520 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PostScript and PDF is full of dumb things. < 1310934468 397642 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The point is that the only things that really output it are TeX. < 1310934479 890537 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I make other programs that produce DVI files too. < 1310934486 337462 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even groff can do so, I think. < 1310934504 157519 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone use anything other than tex/latex when you can use tex/latex < 1310934505 547869 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make any program for printing, DVI format is the format I use. < 1310934518 323554 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it very easy to forget that roff is used for anything but man pages. :) < 1310934552 910425 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: TeX is very good but sometimes you would need different kind of program for printing. < 1310934553 740540 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because it's evil open sourcery. regards, microsoft. < 1310934587 406787 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: like what? < 1310934775 710411 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Various things, including music, ANYTODVI, things not supported by TeX, and sometimes it is useful to just write a C program that directly produces print output. You might also convert other formats in some cases (not scanned documents though; I believe that is what DjVu is for). < 1310934777 99883 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310934807 481114 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: like what? < 1310934807 679366 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected < 1310934827 483073 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disconnected? < 1310934831 459376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Various things, including music, ANYTODVI, things not supported by TeX, and sometimes it is useful to just write a C program that directly produces print output. You might also convert other formats in some cases (not scanned documents though; I believe that is what DjVu is for). < 1310934875 347972 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server didn't recognize the disconnection < 1310934885 635719 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1310934886 191278 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus i told you about it < 1310934895 4965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1310935053 918115 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cases that you might write other programs converting some format directly to DVI, such as ESC/P. < 1310935090 297015 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few other people I have talked to agree that PostScript and PDF are full of dumb things, although one person preferred PCL. < 1310935210 477419 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't really care, they all look the same on paper < 1310935224 736913 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compilation time is roughly the same < 1310935321 426679 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can use what you want, and you can publish the book. However, PostScript and PDF can sometimes produce fuzzy output on paper (I have experienced this). < 1310935342 323364 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1310935500 850223 :foocraft!~ewanas@78.101.149.71 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1310935523 925538 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they are all being converted to PCL, although the resulting PCL data can become different. < 1310935542 823035 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean being converted < 1310935596 801954 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you convert DVI or PostScript or PDF or whatever into PCL so that the printer can accept it. < 1310935892 431049 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.137.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310936385 288745 :Guest87848!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1310936658 90153 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight everyone < 1310936682 6859 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: being forced to go to bed < 1310937284 808671 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, one of the people in #jesus just called himself a prophet < 1310937333 982266 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> its my responsibility as a prophet to tell you what God wants me to < 1310937334 218568 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> rather then what you want to hear < 1310937347 801259 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(name deleted due to this being a publically logged channel) < 1310937440 784135 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310937449 152176 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burn the witch! < 1310937452 383257 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is that sort of thing unusual for #jesus? < 1310937551 200293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one particular corner in Birmingham City Centre which is good for finding evangelists < 1310937567 529175 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/k7Rqy.jpg < 1310937567 753995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually Christian; they're ranting too much to figure out the specific sort of Christianity they believe in < 1310937625 175977 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god apparently the Catholic church is the New World Order I love this channel. < 1310937633 111645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even describe, it's too much. < 1310937633 729891 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#jesus? < 1310937638 941841 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehe < 1310937646 543423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310937901 183014 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you show him Gödel's ontological proof and tell him why modal logic is bad? < 1310937903 366404 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-48.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: bedtime < 1310938060 178499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:54:52: Loading package OpenGL-2.2.3.0 ... linking ... : /usr/local/lib/GeomAlgLib-0.2.0/ghc-7.0.2/HSGeomAlgLib-0.2.0.o: unknown symbol `__stginit_ghczm7zi0zi2_Maybes_' < 1310938060 455579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:55:00: What does that even mean?? < 1310938060 733230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1310938064 433896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you have problems beyond you < 1310938113 86248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:56:07: Christopher Eccleston was the best of New Who. < 1310938113 365123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man okay I love Eccleston and people who don't love Eccleston are bad but are you really saying he's better than Tennant. < 1310938135 836920 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ridiculous < 1310938158 727175 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though Matt Smith has been surprisingly good < 1310938171 590877 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just doesn't quite have the wrath down like Tennant did < 1310938185 799688 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only seen two episodes of Eccleston, is that why I think he might not be the best? < 1310938189 792111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like recent Doctor Who at all < 1310938191 481722 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Catholic Church the *new* world order? < 1310938197 921999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Define recent < 1310938199 590569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes. < 1310938208 274683 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a dr who anime thing that someone made < 1310938209 530429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they're ancient Egypt, as well. < 1310938210 645662 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the "Older than dirt world order"? < 1310938211 540720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: since and including Eccleston, i.e. after the really long hiatus < 1310938218 768894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i watched that, it was really really bad < 1310938219 894676 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone gave me a link, but it was too confusing. < 1310938227 81398 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Doctor Who 2005 < 1310938232 363242 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :standards are too high ;_; < 1310938241 410656 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That phrase, incidentally, is retarded. < 1310938253 411331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ever seen Blink? Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead? (OK yes River Song is in it but it was before she was an insufferable plot element.) < 1310938254 384548 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :New World Order? < 1310938262 224043 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Yes. < 1310938265 795772 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed < 1310938266 874891 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: if it was crap it's due to the style rather than the quality < 1310938268 882503 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOVVS ORDO SECLORVM is "New Order of the Ages", people. < 1310938269 994914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, here, have the truth: http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/48146280?access_key=key-191mra1tp1fxslz2rem8 < 1310938270 664959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I've seen any of those < 1310938277 369825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped watching it for religious reasons after a bit < 1310938281 173037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange as I'm not religious < 1310938301 55093 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blink is a great episode. < 1310938302 738632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You should; I don't know of anyone who thinks they aren't awesome, even non-Doctor Who-likers < 1310938311 130993 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the Angels stop being scary after the first episode. < 1310938352 201583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: yeah, but it took years for Moffat to ruin that. < 1310938359 329408 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1310938372 39000 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh God the derp. < 1310938377 324896 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think that Amy is my favorite companion so far, though < 1310938385 427049 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in the new series < 1310938401 99283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, I liked Martha, TbH. < 1310938420 476744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really, really want to find whoever paired her off with Mickey and kick them until they say sorry. < 1310938433 853146 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean Rose? < 1310938434 547780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like all the companions, does that make me bad? Well, Rose was a bit annoying, but not THAT annoying. < 1310938445 420557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, no, I mean Martha. < 1310938452 134543 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't put my finger on what put me off about Martha, so it's probably latent racism.~ < 1310938476 637954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wow, wait, that was a thing that happened? Like Rose Mickey? < 1310938477 395525 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it could just be her accent and that I found her uninteresting until the last few episodes < 1310938477 812640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahaha < 1310938484 792690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep. < 1310938493 512418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's because of that Associates of Doctor Who Social Club. < 1310938503 915094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what makes me *angry* about it is that she was already engaged when we last saw her. < 1310938515 469876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would involve hiring a new actor. < 1310938516 471785 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY CONTINUITY < 1310938527 779957 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY FANFICTION < 1310938529 314394 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUINED < 1310938536 700240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote MY CONTINUITY MY FANFICTION RUINED < 1310938538 647757 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :509) MY CONTINUITY MY FANFICTION RUINED < 1310938546 516219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, I don't care about those things! < 1310938549 900073 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1310938570 514332 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to devise a Doctor Who related palindrome < 1310938572 476504 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16:54:52: [...] unknown symbol `__stginit_ghczm7zi0zi2_Maybes_' <-- stginit stuff is part of the ghc runtime system, i think. maybe something has not been linked properly, or there is version incompatibility? < 1310938583 711283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, like I said: problems beyond your reach < 1310938590 484635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reinstall GHC, compile everything again, hope it doesn't break < 1310938592 382761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the fact that they cared about her character so little that they completely ignored the development that had been set up. < 1310938601 791134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Theory: It was a different Martha. < 1310938603 182782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was a self-compiled library! < 1310938640 528870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Was The End of Time really really awesome, or am I just imagining that memory? < 1310938651 641947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK but now back to the on-topic activity of logreading. < 1310938653 663274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remind me which one that was. < 1310938656 449481 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-14.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310938666 596270 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that one. < 1310938707 970516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pretty terrible from a characterisation and plot standpoint, but from a "stuff blows up" standpoint it was pretty good. < 1310938728 807624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:48:01: What if arbitrary ASCII output is possible, but requires something difficult, like brute-forcing a hash < 1310938729 6495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't brute-force a hash, not really < 1310938739 615624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as an output mechanism that doesn't work, at least any way I can think of < 1310938748 971615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because every hash has aleph-null strings < 1310938753 48408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really liked Human Nature/The Family of Blood, but I can't see anyone else who did. < 1310938760 174036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I did! < 1310938763 279997 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I seem to have missed the End of Time < 1310938796 603971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GOOD < 1310938846 346382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:49:38: Wait, does every possible SHA-1 hash (or maybe MD5, not sure which to go with) have at least one corresponding input? < 1310938846 582604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not known AFAIK < 1310938858 327627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like an insanely difficult thing to prove, too < 1310938864 651150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:53:22: it's probably impossible to tell < 1310938865 35164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:53:30: or as hard as reversing every hash < 1310938872 135053 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 18:48:01: What if arbitrary ASCII output is possible, but requires something difficult, like brute-forcing a hash < 1310938875 1114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come now, this is mathematics, you can prove theorems in ways other than brute froce. < 1310938889 408591 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he just means that the output instruction outputs a hash. < 1310938891 611590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed; it's just that hashes are designed specifically to try to stop people proving things about them < 1310938903 298009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:54:39: nowadays, I favour the idea of "incremented ASCII" for output, you output, say, 11 for newline or 33 for space < 1310938903 496556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:54:43: because then you can have EOF=0 without a clash < 1310938903 694943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:55:21: well, yes < 1310938903 695110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:55:25: but it should be symmetrical < 1310938908 242738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: outputting 0 should close stdout :) < 1310938908 961582 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I liked Family of Blood < 1310938914 104284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you want to output x, you need to work out y such that hash(y) = x. < 1310938915 838611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1310939120 91226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are true and false one and zero in underlambda? < 1310939130 258351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1310939133 654609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the Church numerals for those < 1310939157 862987 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes, output instruction ouutputitng a hash is what I'm thinking of < 1310939166 490653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, fits what I want, and I did think of < 1310939169 840538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how easy is it to write the function "0 ==> 0; x > 0 ==> 1" where x is guaranteed to be a church numeral? < 1310939182 560707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1310939186 925128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310939195 143710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: can't output strings whose length is not a certain multiple < 1310939198 914263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the hash output length < 1310939206 381708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the zero? function is pretty basic. < 1310939212 258995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: in underlambda < 1310939216 780976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1310939224 496388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you could omit trailing zeroes from the output but then you couldn't end output with zeroes < 1310939269 756873 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS Haskell, why do you need to make it so hard to extract items from a tuple. < 1310939280 895885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a,b,c) -> a < 1310939281 973176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Typeable typeOf3 :: Typeable3 t => t a b c -> TypeRep < 1310939282 171117 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Typeable typeOf2Default :: (Typeable3 t, Typeable a) => t a b c -> TypeRep < 1310939287 438024 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean come on. < 1310939287 855737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't use three-tuples. < 1310939289 251881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't. < 1310939292 299674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, use pattern matching. < 1310939294 363508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show your code. < 1310939300 178485 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, guess what, the library I'm using uses them. < 1310939304 7782 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use template haskell < 1310939304 946124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Show your code. < 1310939305 780780 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell only supports tuples up to the size of 2 < 1310939310 404275 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1310939314 300762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Show your code.Phantom_Hoover: Show your code. < 1310939316 292580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Show your code.Phantom_Hoover: Show your code.Phantom_Hoover: Show your code. < 1310939318 75732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shacode < 1310939322 892737 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what code? < 1310939324 923036 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :bob_loblaw < 1310939327 308536 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The library? < 1310939328 137539 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their code < 1310939331 267399 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your code < 1310939334 963811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your code. < 1310939335 813567 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, easy to work around < 1310939337 945744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code you are trying to extract. < 1310939341 803386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An element. < 1310939343 441885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a tuple in. < 1310939349 125087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because < 1310939351 997299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = x + y + z < 1310939355 203473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where (x,y,z) = f blah < 1310939357 952901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems good enough to me. < 1310939363 758448 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I... don't have any code. < 1310939385 718516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then why are you complaining about a function being missing? < 1310939387 948213 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make last byte indicate .. no, make first byte indicate... hm < 1310939390 460339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you trying to use it imaginarily? < 1310939405 912800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: make the first byte indicate how many bytes of the rest of the hash to output minus one < 1310939409 294369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that 0 prints one byte) < 1310939410 704625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work out how this library's data structures work. < 1310939418 439786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: assuming hashes are less than two hundred something bytes that should work fine < 1310939424 210961 :bob_loblaw!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1310939439 913133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if it specifies a length longer than the hash, either: - cut out the rest; - make that invalid; - or fix the hash length so that it's exactly two hundred and fifty six bytes long < 1310939441 720007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that be seven < 1310939442 136803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1310939454 873272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception < 1310939456 11261 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :510) to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception < 1310939477 58042 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got to that bit? < 1310939481 773613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310939483 452589 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good bit < 1310939487 236199 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310939508 900106 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hath i wrought < 1310939523 4506 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, was there a good bit? I haven't been following #esoteric today < 1310939542 943946 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: we were comparing penis lengths and shit as usual < 1310939556 605414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: /msg < 1310939559 976321 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok heres a useful example of what i had in mind < 1310939583 519551 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any monitor made by ???? company will be reliable." < 1310939604 615594 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you already explain by a rule you meant a capability to solve certain kinds of problems < 1310939613 616223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: do you mean omniscient, not omnipotent? < 1310939637 802006 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like River Song < 1310939683 556091 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that seeing reality as rules _without having a capacity to be flexible on those rules_ leads to abundant errors assumptions and misconceptions. < 1310939702 58817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ok < 1310939717 384364 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i.e. omnipotence? < 1310939785 39937 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone showed me an image before which brings a great example to mind < 1310939791 850882 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: You just need more precisely defined rules :D < 1310939793 240953 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: what about when those rules are provably correct? < 1310939793 606653 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Titanic is unsinkable." < 1310939800 84775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:11:20: Sgeo, it's incredibly obvious sarcasm. < 1310939800 362538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:11:30: i hoped it was < 1310939800 561188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:11:50: added the "whether life has any kind of point" just to make sure < 1310939800 561354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:12:16: Sorry < 1310939800 561455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:12:28: i forgive you < 1310939800 759095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, itidus20. < 1310939803 291243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad Sgeo < 1310939804 971023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1310939809 160091 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Titanic is unsinkable." "I believe you bro." < 1310939812 260228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That very clearly makes your point. < 1310939814 952883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: "All integers are either negative or positive." < 1310939819 260383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: are the integers omnipotent < 1310939820 494175 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the titanic is sinkable" "oh man omnipotence" < 1310939831 538663 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, I like River Song < 1310939833 59242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1310939835 197640 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :........................ < 1310939839 821423 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :....................................................................................................... < 1310939842 191490 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's 0 < 1310939844 137728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: he's saying that the only way for the titanic to be not-sunk in all possible universes is for the titanic to be able to meld reality itself so that this does not happen < 1310939844 335948 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1310939857 19779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: which is sort of reasonable enough, in that it basically has to override physics < 1310939870 526615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and the only way to do that without contradicting the laws of physics is to stop all world-states where it sinks from happening < 1310939873 584725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. be "omnipotent" in a sense < 1310939875 160193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but come on < 1310939884 168884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a block of styrofoam is unsinkable. < 1310939886 684428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it clearly doesn't apply to tautological statements, i.e. anything mathematical. < 1310939892 770828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's a tautology < 1310939899 775494 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :meld? now you're just making up words. < 1310939909 710640 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By contrast, I can say with mathematical certitude that there exists at least one possible universe where the Titanic sank < 1310939914 935495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true that non-tautological statements (i.e. statements that can be false in a possible world) cannot be guaranteed to be true without some sort of filtering of states being done < 1310939924 382679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: right < 1310939931 326426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's not really clear how omnipotence comes in because like < 1310939941 688607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one world that actually happens, and infinite possible worlds < 1310939946 316797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't change the possible worlds < 1310939953 643104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i dunno, i guess it just gives you great luck < 1310939954 336260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1310939955 35947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is < 1310939958 985400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the integers aren't omnipotent < 1310939966 329792 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1310939979 714136 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an excellent point to make. < 1310939985 916315 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that'd make a great next step in the vein of Flat(ter)land < 1310939992 751038 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to rush things too much, but my intended focus was that qualities other than unsinkability can be applied to humans and their behavior. < 1310940001 177000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it is. < 1310940004 130654 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Abraham and the Integers" < 1310940004 328600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure we can all agree on that. < 1310940008 597685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well < 1310940013 455722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of "the integers are god" type sentiment < 1310940014 94180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe < 1310940014 966979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the integers < 1310940015 568384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE < 1310940017 289230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omnipotent???? < 1310940019 170192 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know math. :D < 1310940027 437404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then so is the set {{}}, because all of its elements are {} :/ < 1310940029 672883 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else "the natural numbers are god" if you prefer that. < 1310940032 199909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1310940036 367528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all mathematical objects are omnipotent < 1310940039 32813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this itidus20 i like it < 1310940055 786444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:14:27: I assumed it was that crystal-cola troll, but then I looked at the logs and crystal-cola said that stuff in response to famous bisexuals. < 1310940067 566585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Come on, you don't have to belittle fax by pretending you don't know who e is. < 1310940070 364979 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's go tell #math that we've proved the existence of god < 1310940077 747846 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm, yeah, that was unclear. < 1310940101 541375 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-234-68.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310940102 236186 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinitely many gods, even < 1310940103 479795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think fax is even intentionally a troll, e's just... really bad at this social interaction stuff. < 1310940105 802193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was "that time crystal-cola trolled". < 1310940108 335087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1310940115 249435 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310940116 638740 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, come on, he admitted that was trolling. < 1310940121 555372 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is glad that something he said meant something to someone else.
< 1310940144 327171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A daring one who would be sure of fax's gender after all this time :-P < 1310940145 712085 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :god created the natural numbers, the rationals were done by man and the work was finally completed (topologically) by satan himself < 1310940150 405979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, it was trolling. < 1310940153 481055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just... really bad and obvious trolling. < 1310940155 12862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that even count. < 1310940158 239628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote god created the natural numbers, the rationals were done by man and the work was finally completed (topologically) by satan himself < 1310940159 732692 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :511) god created the natural numbers, the rationals were done by man and the work was finally completed (topologically) by satan himself < 1310940216 326282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:21:37: Unless the textbook involves personal sexual experiences. Which would be a really weird textbook. < 1310940221 782719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sgeo guide to calculus < 1310940253 725376 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. < 1310940261 946730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1310940262 591102 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :does any point conform to a line? < 1310940267 72356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was he even saying that. < 1310940271 769195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, what does that actually mean? < 1310940277 643028 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to write that textbook < 1310940282 573914 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm or is it.. < 1310940301 244374 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: how easy is it to write the function "0 ==> 0; x > 0 ==> 1" where x is guaranteed to be a church numeral? <-- it's easy enough in underload at least. lessee, (!())~^(!())~^ i think < 1310940323 732797 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i think its useful to think of a rule as a line < 1310940327 104039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but underlambda has all these fancy things :D < 1310940333 710567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's very easy, you basically, just do (0 to the power of (0 to the power of n)) < 1310940337 171972 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, on the relevancy or lack thereof of sexual orientation in writing textbooks < 1310940338 260792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what oerjan's code above does < 1310940347 790060 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1310940349 586250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why was that even a topic of discussion. < 1310940350 780705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god. < 1310940357 763819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok was writing a textbook, wasn't he. < 1310940359 518533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 to the n is generally useful enough that it'll be a single character in Underlambda < 1310940359 716390 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :an object cannot stay on a line forever < 1310940366 104838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: what if it's a point? < 1310940367 203979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fair enough; I think your incremented IO formulation is better if you say "false" than 0; it seems less arbitrary < 1310940372 398352 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Homosexuals are better at computer science, heterosexuals are better at analysis? < 1310940372 965284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although fails to explain why you need to increment, I suppose < 1310940377 573096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then you have more than one type of true < 1310940381 482609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was just wondering how easy it was to write a "if non-zero" in Underlambda < 1310940386 466784 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklofok was writing a textbook, wasn't he." <<< xD < 1310940386 825714 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should very carefully state that my math is the lowest in the room. < 1310940387 122260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty easy, it seems < 1310940388 796523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1310940392 198093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fails on non-Smith numerals right? < 1310940398 196676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smith numerals? < 1310940399 692126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: but Sgeo is in here? < 1310940405 43804 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i write math in a pretty boring way usually actually < 1310940407 933479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dammit, you beat me to it. < 1310940408 907662 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is my math really that bad? < 1310940412 520610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Underload numerals aren't Church numerals, they would need an extra caret after it < 1310940417 903369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, i'm just being snarky :) < 1310940418 782293 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: I'm serious.. I am not a math guy < 1310940418 980691 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to spice it up < 1310940421 969146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no, but you are really weird about it. < 1310940435 733590 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're actually *scared* of it, rather than incompetent. < 1310940437 279992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So I gave oerjan the task of renaming them and now you have an eponymous numeral representation :-P < 1310940440 527569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310940440 926516 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps no object is a point < 1310940455 76152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, or perhaps... ALL the objects are points. < 1310940460 499292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I think that only works on Smith numerals, which is fine ofc when you're dealing with streams < 1310940474 494859 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't want to think of himself as scared of math
< 1310940475 144678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, it would be nice if you could generalise "incrementing" to arbitrary quotations... feels gross to have all streams forced to use integers < 1310940477 406953 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 objects will eventually lose synch from a line < 1310940481 157036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what else would you want it to work on? < 1310940481 713161 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider myself to like math :( < 1310940482 675009 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, itidus20: but then they'd be omnipotent < 1310940485 15962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do it on arbitrary functions < 1310940487 868255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: every object < 1310940492 62006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without being able to solve the halting problem < 1310940494 818969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you could map a stream of (x :: X)s to false and f(x) for some f < 1310940497 672536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course you can < 1310940500 591827 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What kind of math do you like? < 1310940503 859244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, oh, of course. < 1310940510 92642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just wrap the quotation somehow < 1310940512 995641 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I consider myself to like math :( < 1310940516 221467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that makes it distinguishable from 0 < 1310940521 343283 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no 3 objects in the universe will stay in line forever (but this is just using the impermenance rule :-s ) < 1310940525 814500 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've repeatedly said you don't like formal science because of the maths. < 1310940532 69765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, ...impermanence rule? < 1310940535 926878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean boxing objects into a standard form and tagging them to say what they are? < 1310940539 297898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what Feather does < 1310940546 918188 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not that I would call a lot of what the formal sciences do "math" :D < 1310940550 420245 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :buddha gotama's rule that everything comes to an end < 1310940552 865025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: argh, shut up :D < 1310940560 248815 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But at least they beat the social sciences < 1310940562 1930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just saying that anything that can only handle integers sucks :P < 1310940562 199785 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, oh come on. < 1310940566 99133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is overcomplicated for Underlambda < 1310940568 386292 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again my mentor told me buddha wasn't that great at math < 1310940572 352599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make it handle, say, strings too < 1310940573 186536 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, physics is completely mathematically modelled. < 1310940579 57953 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1310940580 962721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, um... I suppose that's true? < 1310940583 141225 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not rigorously < 1310940586 458465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Now now, Phantom_Hoover's literal hate of anyone who does a soft science is bad enough. < 1310940587 292995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, yes? < 1310940589 406377 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : By contrast, I can say with mathematical certitude that there exists at least one possible universe where the Titanic sank <-- rubbish, it was a coverup and it was really abducted by aliens < 1310940591 681969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has itidus20 misinterpreted what the channel's about? < 1310940593 532247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : NihilistDandy: Now now, Phantom_Hoover's literal hate of anyone who does a soft science is bad enough. < 1310940594 505487 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I like my math getting mixed up with practicality. Also, I need paper or a paper like thing, it's been a while < 1310940594 703297 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1310940598 649327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, astoundingly < 1310940605 624016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I, then? < 1310940610 234476 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was about esoteric programming languages. < 1310940610 432578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps :-) < 1310940611 953245 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1310940616 256728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1310940617 152948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, it is, ostensibly. < 1310940619 605049 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1310940620 480782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, supposed to be < 1310940624 836799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : What? < 1310940632 589689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom "Kate Beaton is literally the only humanities major I respect" Hoover < 1310940635 92345 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : What? < 1310940636 724673 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I don't think I like my math getting mixed up with practicality." <<< seconded < 1310940644 75133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, define:hyperbole < 1310940646 799188 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Thirded. < 1310940663 687047 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fourthed. < 1310940672 404857 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1310940673 556817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Define:sarcasm on my original statement < 1310940678 42067 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the room has spokened < 1310940678 240501 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's a lot of "the integers are god" type sentiment <-- a kroneckal mistake < 1310940678 240682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seventhed < 1310940691 790101 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *sigh* < 1310940694 459013 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it said < 1310940696 680726 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also funny < 1310940709 477007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy isn't used to oerjan's puns by now? :D < 1310940717 162665 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it said that math mixed with practicality is not popular < 1310940730 337083 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Usually I am, but sometimes... sometimes I get blindsided < 1310940734 503454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, no, we just like counting. < 1310940736 449901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's popular amongst bad people < 1310940794 226353 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, my mom believes that the brand-name of a food in a supermarket tells her information about the food. It is something I have to slowly educate her about < 1310940806 388941 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Math is about pi and the Fibonacci sequence, obviously. The way people go on about differentiable manifolds and assembly maps, you'd think they were somehow conceptally different from those foundations. < 1310940837 514343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: oh dear, you might be in a competition with Sgeo for misinformed parents there < 1310940848 355552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least your response to the situation is a sane one < 1310940854 259619 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What do Sgeo's parents think? < 1310940854 457380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: like what information < 1310940862 546317 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : the sgeo guide to calculus <-- you've never seen curves so smooth < 1310940870 423742 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DS < 1310940870 828367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: auuuuuuuuugh < 1310940871 577881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I don't know, my mind blotted it out to save me from the stupid < 1310940872 2591 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION claps
< 1310940877 250318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure other people here can remember, though < 1310940877 624758 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the brandnamed one is inherently superior < 1310940905 13885 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the stupidest bit is that he's studying at a school without a CS program. < 1310940912 986479 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At his father's suggestion. < 1310940917 798707 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :She also believes things that are written on the packaging like fat-free.. or approved by such and such a foundation < 1310940927 427746 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wut. God why < 1310940934 586376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is... is ais523 insulting someone. < 1310940937 885246 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: He's getting some sort of IT degree. < 1310940938 83385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, god only knows. < 1310940948 86755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, well only indirectly, and not someone here < 1310940950 414232 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Which requires more *business* classes than math. < 1310940954 328182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ais523 hides his scheming plots behind a veneer of objectivity. < 1310940956 969992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUN WHILE YOU STILL HAVE A CHANCE < 1310940961 238643 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1310940966 917203 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I used to be in that situation. My mother thought I was doing CS. I had to explain to her that she was wrong and possibly broken < 1310940972 354390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't I be objective /and/ insult people? < 1310940975 110606 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais has also taken a lot of business stuff < 1310940981 945006 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, what were you doing? < 1310940985 453805 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad used to explain that the company gets paid a fortune to put their foundation's logo on the food and that, foods without the logo could potentially pass the standards to have the logo. < 1310940990 245276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I'm having trouble parsing your sentence < 1310940992 944149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: "wrong and possibly broken" X-D < 1310940994 484184 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Information Security and Forensics, they called it < 1310940997 604728 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Calc I is the highest math class he is required to take. < 1310941002 420040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, resolving the words in it into possible meanings for those words < 1310941007 725305 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly code monkeying and networking < 1310941024 203257 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could fulfill the programming requirements with Visual Basic. < 1310941027 111861 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was at RIT, though, so it's not like it was some nonsense program < 1310941030 618065 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just wasn't my style < 1310941079 575759 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: So I gave oerjan the task of renaming them and now you have an eponymous numeral representation :-P <-- wait i recall there was a discussion, but i don't recall that i was the one who suggested naming them after ais523 < 1310941103 385409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you did, after the < 1310941105 79591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :friends of smith thing < 1310941106 622553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that church thing < 1310941106 821571 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now I'm doing CS and pure math at UVM. Much happier :) < 1310941154 219038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I can believe that < 1310941165 928733 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that any two points lie on a unique common line is one of the famous ancient greek axioms of geometry. or was that postulate. < 1310941181 596490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in electronics, multimetres cost about ten times as much if they've actually been measured to make sure they measure correctly < 1310941187 407119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's the same both way s round < 1310941189 157358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ways < 1310941189 435921 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My mother thought (until I corrected her) that "computer science" was what gave me insight in to how to fix her computer problems < 1310941195 596511 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*into < 1310941207 652135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I would like to say that "computing theorist" would solve this problem, but it probably wouldn't :P < 1310941210 287829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has "comput" in it < 1310941218 229850 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1310941220 323994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: my mother came to me in a panic today, because she'd tried to turn a computer off and put it into standby instead, and in the meantime removed a USB stick containing a document she was editing < 1310941243 479401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never cease to be amazed at how much distress computers can cause unsavvy people < 1310941258 665560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we could sue major software manufacturers for the grief? :P < 1310941263 454299 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never cease to be amazed how much distress they cause the savviest people < 1310941270 473420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was then terrified at the save-as dialog < 1310941275 238823 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people in the middle are pretty safe < 1310941279 442453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we told her that was probably the best option < 1310941279 999150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: indeed < 1310941298 29784 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklofok: I'm having trouble parsing your sentence" <<< you, as well, have taken many business type of thing classes. < 1310941300 768995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: indeed < 1310941304 454438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: not many < 1310941308 336049 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your mother is the most adorably strange woman I've ever heard of < 1310941313 253087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two a year for four years, and that was far too many < 1310941323 137011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: sounds like a normal non-savvy person to me < 1310941323 415326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: not really, most computer users are much worse < 1310941332 257447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can cause complete havoc by rearranging icons on most people's desktops < 1310941336 278265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows power users, as insane as some of the things they do are, do seem to be rather happy with computers < 1310941339 543352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where by most, I just mean >50%, not ~99%) < 1310941340 431651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because they're sure of everything < 1310941346 68264 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1310941364 437840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was such a relief to me when I moved to Linux and no longer had to understand Windows < 1310941368 355307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1310941375 219507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a moving target, even though I understood it once I no longer do < 1310941375 498814 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just make sure I can do everything I need to do daily on the big three platforms, and that I know some neat tricks for certain things on each one < 1310941382 164100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that computers cause me a lot of grief :/ < 1310941383 866776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used to write Win16 software for fun) < 1310941389 628968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it < 1310941394 439672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, but it's what I'm good at < 1310941421 590395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how long did it take you to work out what File | Save As did? < 1310941429 314396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I didn't work it out immediately, although it was quite fast < 1310941432 306486 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way we can use our computer-related skills without actual computers? < 1310941444 899967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't have any recollection of doing so; I started using Windows when I was three years old < 1310941449 162720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: programming skill works offline < 1310941450 553085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow < 1310941457 297393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have no idea how I learned to type, either < 1310941469 542068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, I was taught to type formally < 1310941472 776768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a suspicious feeling that it may be almost as ingrained as my knowledge of English < 1310941476 601135 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I think I should hang up my null pointers and start a farm in Nebraska. Then I remember that the horror of being constantly surrounded by sunlight and shit is what got me into computer science in the first place and, well... < 1310941479 686257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ignored all that and taught myself how to do it without jamming fingers on the home row < 1310941485 740350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still really slow at using most GUIs though :/ < 1310941494 915398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really, but quite < 1310941498 679801 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im elliott < 1310941509 777733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a lot of videos where people move the mouse at record speed clicking menus and the like without even pausing < 1310941515 457766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could never do that < 1310941526 196649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on a laptop, no. < 1310941527 586146 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyboard shortcuts for lyfe, yo < 1310941530 625371 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guis make me sad < 1310941532 838717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I used to be able to do that, with an actual physical mouse < 1310941603 379188 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I must've learned about "save as" in text mode guis, e.g. quickbasic < 1310941610 267417 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first computer was an Apple, of some sort. Back when things were still really NeXTSteppy < 1310941616 290111 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was before learning about english, of course < 1310941620 671688 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a time that was < 1310941656 180741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: at least English isn't your native language < 1310941657 999909 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, maybe even before that < 1310941671 199132 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else read "with an actual physical mouse" as "an actual live mouse" < 1310941674 232027 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was black and white, I'll just say that < 1310941680 937794 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: For a second, yes, I did < 1310941687 541459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to be really good at using MouseKeys < 1310941694 27796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this laptop now has a touchpad, so I use that instead < 1310941707 322953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the previous one did in theory but it didn't work; at least, it worked for about ten seconds once, but it mostly didn't work) < 1310941738 900170 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being "good with MouseKeys" sounds like a contradiction in terms < 1310941747 417134 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never much saw the use, unless my mouse broke < 1310941750 490326 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310941775 283425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: sometimes you badly need a mouse, though < 1310941786 51619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I actually completed one level of Adanaxis (the one after the tutorial) with the touchpad < 1310941791 245557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wow, was that painful < 1310941807 559352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a stunt-run I'd recommend < 1310941812 29042 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : in electronics, multimetres cost about ten times as much if they've actually been measured to make sure they measure correctly <-- does that mean it's cheaper to buy 9 and measure them yourself? < 1310941820 197020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: probably 1 and measure it yourself < 1310941827 907176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that the measuring equipment is pretty expensive < 1310941845 498417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could buy three and take the majority opinion < 1310942255 755172 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the moment i finish reading scrollback, everyone has stopped talking < 1310942263 97832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310942274 814380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been talking, but in #nethack because I'm in a nethack tournament < 1310942301 173777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1310942307 460132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just logread scrollback < 1310942310 497629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll logread your logreading < 1310942312 334711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can talk forever < 1310942319 466871 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1310942326 728985 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like some kind of correspondence IRC < 1310942353 697927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : String[] ConfigArray = new String[21]; < 1310942362 542187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't get over how bad this plugin's configuration system is < 1310942413 23754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1310942426 131614 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1310942493 563700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it gets better < 1310942496 828156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ConfigArray[0] = simplesaveproperties.getProperty("save.use"); < 1310942497 105890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ConfigArray[1] = simplesaveproperties.getProperty("save.interval"); < 1310942497 304065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ConfigArray[2] = simplesaveproperties < 1310942497 304236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : .getProperty("save.message.starting"); < 1310942497 304340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1310942497 502093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ConfigArray[14] = ""; < 1310942499 615771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ConfigArray[15] = ""; < 1310942501 446164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1310942509 415747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's faster than a hashtable lookup! < 1310942514 359112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is getProperty using reflection, there? < 1310942519 400840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that basically is a hash table < 1310942521 88299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's just reading from a .properties file < 1310942522 452528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a very specific hash function < 1310942527 312958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was a joke < 1310942540 356392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro of bukkit plugins being so easy to write: I can look at most plugins and think "yup, I could write that in a day or two" < 1310942551 552654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :con of bukkit plugins being so easy to write: people like this can write plugins < 1310942560 977848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i have to try and make their plugins work < 1310942569 304030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or just write it yourself in a day or two? < 1310942594 253652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is bukkit plugins? < 1310942648 812350 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugins for bukkit? < 1310942672 420721 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is bukkit? < 1310942690 296741 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecrafty things? < 1310942774 887061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: or just write it yourself in a day or two? < 1310942779 70073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that delays the srver launch :) < 1310942779 971203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :server < 1310942789 652906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if the existing plugins take more than a day or two to figure out < 1310942812 550537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Bukkit is an API for writing portable plugins to change the game mechanics or add various server features to any supporting Minecraft multiplayer server < 1310942818 817320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true < 1310942833 556631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's best to try first, because usually it'll take much less < 1310942852 178287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by the time I realise rewriting would have been quicker, making the existing plugin work would probably add less time to the total than rewriting it from scratch < 1310942853 251131 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :try rewriting first? or using the existing one first? < 1310942863 16732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :-P < 1310942863 255076 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what kind of game mechanics and server features do you change? < 1310942946 141883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, there are plenty of things that adjust the damage various monster attacks, fall damage, etc. do; there are plugins to protect blocks in certain areas from being created and destroyed by various users, and to stop people opening chests owned by others; there are plugins that add whole new game mechanics and blocks to the game; there are plugins that add portals that go to different alternate worlds; there are plugins to allow the serv < 1310942946 339770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er admin to create and edit blocks on a mass scale with commands... things that add various features to the chat system, etc. etc. etc. < 1310942952 992500 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAMPING MINIGAME < 1310942976 572554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this particular plugin just adjusts the interval that the server saves the world in, and also periodically saves to a backup folder whenever anyone is online < 1310942977 115610 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1310943010 964378 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many people can you reasonably have on a server at one time? < 1310943039 355352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Depends on how much money you have. < 1310943065 96573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: The reddit servers have... god, how much is it, Phantom_Hoover? < 1310943067 652498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hundred? < 1310943082 223799 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for a reasonable hobbyist operation, probably no more than 10 < 1310943101 209742 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably fewer than that, anyway < 1310943103 236799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Eh, if you go with one of the "Minecraft server hosts", you could easily do twenty < 1310943105 321959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or thirty < 1310943107 936913 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1310943135 931651 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly I'd just like to see a huge one, with enough people to reduce the landscape to bedrock within a few days < 1310943140 558716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just doing it on my twenty-dollar-a-month one gig of RAM VPS, so something like seven would be the maximum before I'd see serious strain, I suspect, although that's with rather worst-case conditions (nobody sharing loaded chunks, etc.) < 1310943177 305134 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or *a* day, given the obsessive quality of Minecraft < 1310943178 936878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: #esoteric-minecraft if you're interested; we've had a server before, but it hasn't been updated in a rather long time so I've got impatient and am starting my own. < 1310943226 556388 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be neat. I haven't played it online, before < 1310945144 986610 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think LLVM trampolines seem to be more useful than GNU trampolines. < 1310945337 273065 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think they seem? should be easy to verify what they actually seem like :P < 1310945375 132680 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they seem < 1310946968 586205 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Changing server < 1310946969 706017 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1310947264 790104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: killed to death < 1310947290 223551 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310947554 107007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310948126 582000 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found an interesting reddit comment on reverse engineering and (somewhat) haskell by copumpkin: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/iqz0l/reverse_engineering_of_compiled_haskell/c264g5b < 1310948149 648103 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1310948153 455305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalking.jpg < 1310948174 295750 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i only noticed it was by copumpkin after i'd starting reading it < 1310948179 170741 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*started < 1310948180 864016 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1310948186 475279 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, stalking.png < 1310948257 147359 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have re-read the panels around the end of act 4 < 1310948302 446298 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes it obvious that it's refereing to it, but I'm still lost < 1310948326 537866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1310948337 392257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wrt Homestuck update < 1310948358 651602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it < 1310948392 609079 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd still be curious to feed hex-rays a ghc-compiled binary < 1310948394 829004 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity I don't have hex-rays < 1310948411 22651 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet even function boundary analysis in basic IDA would fail, though < 1310948446 993532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, elliott is going to mock you about this, but he was completely lost by the ectobiology stuff when I read it with him. < 1310948447 405444 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found myself wanting to use a PHI command in C, although of course C doesn't have that. < 1310948456 440832 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he was reading it for the second time. < 1310948790 666050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait, why the heck is that the highest rated comment....? < 1310948800 499428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this confirms it, YouTube commenting has now become a parody of itself < 1310948822 779751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1310948833 749341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been suspecting it for a while, but not had solid proof < 1310948903 508348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you _do_ know what the top voted reddit post ever is, don't you? < 1310948916 771437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1310948933 134893 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://www.reddit.com/r/all/top/?sort=top&t=all :) < 1310948952 374523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310948957 701742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the icon next to it mean? < 1310948993 231165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is the person who made it famous/special in any way that might lead to a post of theirs getting singled out? < 1310949019 655610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye < 1310949020 72630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1310949025 627622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you know qgyh2? < 1310949037 174835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was the most famous user of old reddit < 1310949044 352978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, I don't really use reddit < 1310949049 375241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read proggit for the comments, but that's about it < 1310949053 684193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read homepage, for instance < 1310949095 214790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was this before or after the test post? < 1310949142 287196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: much before < 1310949169 189142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, so it was the power user crap Reddit prides itself on not having? < 1310949220 271705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure what that icon means, i _thought_ it meant a picture was missing but that's a self post so cannot have any... < 1310949249 533617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, qg was cool < 1310949275 632673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well sure, but the fact that it was upvoted wasn't a random thing. < 1310949276 327570 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no looking at the frontpage the missing picture icon is an alien with a camera and a question mark < 1310949283 30121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's something i've never seen before, probably added just for that post < 1310949283 228178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe that's why it's missing < 1310949289 505172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well sure, but come on, it's a one-off < 1310949376 515784 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but there other self posts which have no icon < 1310949446 548924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/static/self_default2.png < 1310949448 45049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1310949453 823871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe using a question mark changes it:) < 1310949455 352772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it :) < 1310949698 935109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310949795 63984 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i finally found one deep down in the frontpage which has it http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/is1s7/extralivesorg_is_trying_to_raise_8500_to_build_a/ < 1310949851 553325 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moreover this one has the A+ icon for a self comment as well < 1310949874 343930 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i've found a couple that have neither < 1310949884 771835 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aa+ < 1310949918 200487 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well maybe there's some obscure setting which does it < 1310950772 696335 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you interested in reversing? < 1310950977 81533 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very deeply, no < 1310950987 266941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1310950992 521650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1310951241 142774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1310951885 961237 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310951886 377522 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1310951886 575557 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310951916 103888 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310951984 739961 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1310952865 345583 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953086 189192 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310953215 57162 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953413 152952 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310953581 255098 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953606 932596 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1310953694 237108 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953694 514028 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1310953694 712113 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1310953831 85198 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1310954196 185202 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229130116.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310954331 92883 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310954609 194195 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310954646 520007 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write a patch for XChat < 1310954657 306199 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To stop its notifications from telling me that I disconnected < 1310954671 267040 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, limit it to only once in x amount of time. < 1310954839 863137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop disconnecting :P < 1310954929 842282 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129159.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310955002 658434 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if XChat scripts have access to that stuff
< 1310955724 315742 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how much does prgmr HD space cost? < 1310955765 538804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um? < 1310955772 347948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean/why do you want to know? < 1310955787 850261 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know because I'm considering trying prgmr < 1310955800 738046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what < 1310955807 270686 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To play around with < 1310955834 302270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like a bad reason to spend at least ten dollars a month :-P < 1310955841 570375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it increases with the RAM. < 1310955860 373883 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what VPSes are more suited to just playing around with? < 1310955900 928997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a Linux box with an IP already, don't you? < 1310955916 429910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A VPS is for when you have actual services that you want to serve twenty-four seven :P < 1310955922 857869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, your money, but... < 1310955934 477097 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, probably my dad's money) < 1310955936 353375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not gonna find anything more than a few dollars cheaper than prgmr and what you do find will be a lot worse. < 1310955976 478510 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want toy services that I want to serve 24/7 < 1310956047 646789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your usecase sounds rather badly thought-out < 1310956050 388192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, not < 1310956062 767342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thought out, that is.) < 1310956116 552772 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC bots, maybe some Second Life stuff, wanting to play with web stuff without being restricted in my choice of language < 1310956131 491771 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Web stuff that other people can actually use) < 1310956171 750459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just leave your laptop on, then it costs [fraction of electrical bill] rather than whatever prgmr does:P < 1310956173 279766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does :P < 1310956177 530898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, prgmr would fit for that I guess. < 1310957733 288412 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129159.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310957966 361671 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders what happened to a certain DJ that shares his name
< 1310958006 462492 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we found it confusing with several people named the same thing, so we killed him. < 1310958018 716767 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a fair coin toss, though < 1310958020 898182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, we found it confusing with several people named the same thing, so we killed you < 1310958030 690369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are not sure why your client is still sending messages < 1310958053 451824 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...are you sure you remember the right coin result < 1310958082 421788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310958095 369524 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, awkward < 1310958107 431189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1310958359 622401 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, each of oerjan and ais523 was tasked with killing one of you if the coin flip went that way, but they both misread the coin and killed both of you. < 1310958366 860699 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the ambiguity was resolved. < 1310958492 226768 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1310958556 111556 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1310958571 640994 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d2 < 1310958572 416655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d2 => 1 < 1310958603 582241 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310959599 255557 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1310960631 192978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310960673 458328 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.245.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310960680 715005 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.245.90 QUIT :Changing host < 1310960680 913130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310961588 512298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310961591 359802 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310962975 760908 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother made up his character's name by now. He named his character "Also". < 1310963022 987515 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1310963289 292943 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is part of this group, and also his brother < 1310963326 836602 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I should *also* put it into the computer. < 1310963439 362548 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also puns can easily fall flat if you don't get the grammar just right < 1310964358 501044 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jeffkatz.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a721c2d7970b0133ed630c7b970b-800wi Delicious, delicious heart attack. < 1310964424 458232 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am American and I approve of this murder weapon. < 1310964739 775388 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.90 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310964745 152596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1310965043 999116 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made a couple of those < 1310965094 962455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're still alive? < 1310965121 198288 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't say he ate them < 1310965216 315171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd inhale the cholesterol < 1310965316 688970 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1310965522 472177 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were delicious < 1310965528 990110 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I did feel rather gross after eating them < 1310965546 896885 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly copumpkin is as deceased as I am. < 1310965705 626024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow java generics are crappy < 1310965756 59294 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow water is wet < 1310965773 392315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1310965781 935435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're, like, _really_ crappy :O < 1310965847 274385 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but water is, like, _really_ wet :O < 1310965854 933175 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, completely drenching < 1310965905 47727 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps wetness is the extent to which a thing is saturated with water < 1310965947 12127 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean water is the wettest thing of all? < 1310965955 282351 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1310965956 567176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, phew, they're not _quite_ as bad as I thought I'd just proved < 1310965972 231659 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wetness might relate to liquids, which would complicate things < 1310965979 802333 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :since not all liquids are water < 1310966031 86223 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also brings up the question of whether ice is wet < 1310966062 818715 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, that's deep < 1310966072 211749 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in wetness, is water a necessary element? is liquid state a necessary element? < 1310966088 200199 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you have something wet which is neither water nor liquid < 1310966169 8797 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is humid air wet? Is mercury? < 1310966180 978770 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a natural word, so its probably ambiguous at best. < 1310966182 818340 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am showing off because gregor is here < 1310966217 346407 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok case closed < 1310966235 622255 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not capitalizing my name or using punctuation isn't particularly impressive showing off ... :P < 1310966244 79803 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know which way to go < 1310966254 971310 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Particle Man is in water, does he get wet, or does the water get him instead? < 1310967017 632541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you there? < 1310967021 810707 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Soviet Russia, wet gets YOU!! < 1310967032 199020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1310967040 563790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haskell/java bridge using jni < 1310967044 636045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare for me to leave the computer on and unattended overnight < 1310967049 444508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therapy is available down the hall. < 1310967053 539924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for the nightmares. < 1310967054 306734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the daytime, it's possible my boss has contacted me or something like that < 1310967063 542160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only avoid reading that line for so long, ais523. < 1310967069 351841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's no more insane than haskell/imperative language, isn't it? < 1310967083 435950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're saying that involving Java in something doesn't make it more of a terrible idea? < 1310967094 678243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be some kind of Act of Maximum Terribleness < 1310967096 234234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only marginally < 1310967098 440338 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell/JavaScript bridge 8-D < 1310967104 479750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider Java some sort of great, all-encompassing evil < 1310967109 392656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, killing a baby with Java isn't really worse than just killing a baby, I suppose < 1310967109 948265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an ordinarily evil < 1310967113 460923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ordinary < 1310967119 432130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost mundane, in fact < 1310967120 376379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, but as a language, it sure doesn't like talking to other people :P < 1310967127 892348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course Java is mundane, it's just /strange/ and mundane < 1310967145 574381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java constantly surprises me, and I'm hardly inexperienced with C and Python and other such "boring languages" < 1310967156 639327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1310967158 805412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't surprise me much < 1310967159 4547 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I think I have use for that < 1310967170 277605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that may be cause for concern :-) < 1310967176 850414 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION abruptly gets shot
< 1310967179 35696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes, it honestly does < 1310967182 373116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed exactly like I expect it to be designed < 1310967198 381269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you expect type erasure? < 1310967201 818815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more abstraction layers than are particularly sane, and a standard library that tries to do everything itself < 1310967225 96119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, but partly because I know that Java's template system is a last-minute hack that was retrofitted to the language < 1310967235 316654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unfair < 1310967236 23547 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the name is also weird < 1310967237 425542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not an "expectation" < 1310967240 252383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating :-) < 1310967242 574712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you expect the rather strange anonymous subclass syntax? < 1310967259 828869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's saner than what C++ would come up with for the same thing < 1310967270 795652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means nothing! < 1310967286 567604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you come up with a better syntax < 1310967299 60248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why, when I could come up with a better language? < 1310967299 796518 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ template syntax is bad because it uses < > as delimiters even though they also mean less than and greater than signs. < 1310967301 242226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're just not thinking from the Java point of view < 1310967305 37784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's strange to be able to do that with shortcut syntax in the first place < 1310967316 900031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And certainly not what I'd expect from the Most Boring Orthodox OOP Language Ever < 1310967317 178611 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax isn't what's bothersome, although I haven't used Java much. But how do you not have lambdas? < 1310967320 435928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is not orthodox IMO < 1310967320 713596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, if everything is a class or an object, then what's a new method? a class < 1310967333 100846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to be able to make throwaway classes like that < 1310967340 825276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the syntax is much the same as defining an ordinary class < 1310967349 784891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that you put the class definition where the class name should go < 1310967364 99011 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't anonymous functions just be syntax sugar for a method of an anonymous class, then? < 1310967366 338707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION steps away from ais523, curls up in a ball, and cries himself to sleep.
< 1310967370 376783 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, hmm < 1310967383 936127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I note that C does the same thing, with anonymous structs < 1310967397 365554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct {int i; float f;} x; < 1310967398 328885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wish you were around when Java actually surprised me so I could tell you why < 1310967407 109262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens in IDEA, stays in IDEA < 1310967711 983464 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Java 8 is actually adding lambdas. < 1310967737 759600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what syntax, incidentally? < 1310967745 448004 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yay! Now how about all the APIs that don't take lambdas? < 1310967759 454570 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are they using Runnable or something, which, I _think_ stuff takes? < 1310967767 525263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're just sugar for a five-liner that creates an anonymous inner class < 1310967791 282870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runnable is sort-of the defacto standard for those if you're just using them as a callback, but taking no arguments and returning void is a bit crippling < 1310967801 170881 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1310967814 626087 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't used much Java < 1310967817 776831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not /fatal/, but you don't want to have to use stupid workarounds) < 1310967832 757703 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The planned syntax is #{ arglist -> code } < 1310967858 61147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/now/ I'm surprised < 1310967862 96320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly at the -> < 1310967868 624583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's such an unjavaish operator < 1310967919 758206 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can only close over final or "effectively final" variables... < 1310967940 759596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mostly at the #
< 1310967952 610028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never expect to see that outside of a literal/comment in java < 1310967993 56224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's for consistency with method pointers, isn't it? < 1310968000 485098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that restriction's been around for ages < 1310968009 621342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to save having to distinguish between current and original value < 1310968015 40516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effectively final? < 1310968038 480042 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Basically, can be declared final without causing a compilation error. < 1310968051 624940 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, cool < 1310968066 289660 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, cool's the wrong word. But ... smarter than... an unsmart compiler?) < 1310968081 486727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. It's basically syntactic sugar around anonymous classes. < 1310968098 319711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's to make idiots think about whether they mean {final T x = this.x; return new C() {C(){setT(x);} } } or {final T finalThis = this; return new C() {C(){setThingToAccessToGetT(finalThis);} } } < 1310968116 461896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably have made minor syntax errors there, because Java more or less requires an IDE to do the boilerplate for you < 1310968121 98705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost as bad as VHDL < 1310968130 27273 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Anonymous classes of a single method. < 1310968147 13893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310968155 121110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1310968163 740026 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the type gets inferred. < 1310968185 463537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'll love this syntax, then (proposed, I'm not sure it was accepted): Math#sin for what is basically #{ x -> Math.sin(x) } < 1310968199 672013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: type inference? in /Java/? now I'm shocked < 1310968210 468120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's about as advanced as C++0x's. < 1310968221 465593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how advanced is that? < 1310968225 187090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1310968249 161202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++0x is more insane than my mind can easily grasp < 1310968259 439514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't even follow the move constructor debate < 1310968265 389607 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pretty much, if you're trying to use #{ } where only a class with a single method is expected, it figures out that you want to use that type. Otherwise it's a compile error. < 1310968267 190511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++0x is a beautiful, crystalline trainwreck < 1310968272 50599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite knowing early C++ (really early, before namespaces were invented) < 1310968281 228579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the Best language and, therefore, a completely useless piece of shit < 1310968290 715629 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Really* naive. < 1310968296 116654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone here explain move constructors? < 1310968300 443323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it lead to C++ sudoku! < 1310968307 640107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no, because they're basically inexplicable < 1310968315 326868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps someone here is insane enough to grasp them < 1310968325 329821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I understand the intention and what they're meant to encourage < 1310968345 303847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't get a) why that's considered a desirable feature for a language, or b) any of the millions of details needed for them to work correctly < 1310968362 597831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :summarise? opening a tab will crash flash < 1310968364 636793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not a joke) < 1310968369 964182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also make perfectly innocent-looking code do ridiculous things < 1310968375 895202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(flash /really/ hates pages loading or closing in Chrome for some reason) < 1310968381 240829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't easily, because I don't understand it really < 1310968386 135866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, < 1310968387 526400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, I understand the intention and what they're meant to encourage < 1310968388 349744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this part < 1310968394 510645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what a copy constructor is, right? < 1310968405 498679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like that, except you destroy the thing being copied, because it isn't needed any more < 1310968406 193718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's constructing a new object with just an existing one as an argument < 1310968408 763885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copying all its fields over < 1310968411 111444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's really hard to get right < 1310968413 650176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow < 1310968414 779087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: linear typing < 1310968422 135169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but... at runtime < 1310968430 282205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1310968432 440706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it uniqueness typing < 1310968436 34312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever Clean uses for IO, anyway < 1310968448 814007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's reminiscent of linear typing, at least < 1310968454 694947 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *reason* for move constructors is so that the compiler doesn't have to actually do deep copies for its temporary values. < 1310968458 891256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that linear typing's "legitimate ways to cheat" are rather unlike C++'s < 1310968473 400889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why can't it just use the original value? < 1310968511 198088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutability? < 1310968520 243833 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because things tend to get passed *by value* to relevant functions. < 1310968532 617200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, the reason for anything insane in C++ tends to be "performance, even though you'd just use a struct if you _really_ cared" < 1310968532 993098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh right, and C++ doesn't hide calling convention stuff < 1310968542 100845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310968547 947920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's because C++'s market is very specific nowadays < 1310968568 593765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's people who care massively about performance, but who can't use C for various reasons, mostly library support < 1310968569 879113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: games programming, application developers (who don't care about the new features), and "specialist" areas? like embedded/realtime stuff < 1310968587 277277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't include needing to use an object-oriented view of things as a reason to use C++, as C is better at that) < 1310968598 797099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote (I don't include needing to use an object-oriented view of things as a reason to use C++, as C is better at that) < 1310968599 996922 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :512) (I don't include needing to use an object-oriented view of things as a reason to use C++, as C is better at that) < 1310968605 964297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, a milestone < 1310968612 893645 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. foo = bar + baz + qux; would have to create a value for "baz + qux", to pass it to operator+ for adding bar to get the final value... < 1310968615 21117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll delete most of them later :-) < 1310968626 122707 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, think? < 1310968682 698979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: unless operator+ took references as arguments < 1310968689 928904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the standard for arithmetic operators, isn't it? < 1310968703 630174 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. To *work around that*. < 1310968718 36762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, nice < 1310968723 723377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there ever really a reason to pass by value in C++? < 1310968724 859741 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s semantics are far too complicated. < 1310968725 648817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1310968733 828487 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I dunno, but people *do it*. < 1310968736 592630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you pass integers and smaller primitive types by value, generally < 1310968759 285527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you pass them by reference, the compiler has to find some memory to store them in in order to pass a pointer to them, which is pretty convoluted < 1310968783 514324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes < 1310968786 108883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean non-primitive types < 1310968801 309907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most languages don't even have a /way/ to specify that you want a by-value passing < 1310968810 392176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to by-reference) < 1310968815 626837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays, I think value is faster for even structures up to 64 bits wide, with modern compilers and calling conventions < 1310968825 328779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although this is an implementation detail in the case of immutable objects) < 1310968831 299965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not many structures are less than sixty four bits wide... < 1310968848 683366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they are if you go up to Java levels of enterpriseyness < 1310968849 377772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would say that int is usually used even when char would do fine, for futureproofing and not-having-to-think-about-it reasons) < 1310968870 616215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have nothing but a vtable, for instance < 1310968876 595355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the vtable is stored as a pointer < 1310968882 152648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pointer to a pointer would just be ridiculous < 1310968888 540333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1310968900 48578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, in the minds of C++ users < 1310968900 326382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you're saying is, C++ needs opaque typedefs :) < 1310968903 245847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Haskell newtype) < 1310968913 75440 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly. < 1310968914 742318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskell, those desugar to the contained value < 1310968918 326043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's zero runtime overhead < 1310968949 492921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, never suggest a new feature for C++, even as a joke < 1310968953 365200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1310968954 377819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the consequences aren't pretty < 1310968970 454033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sad that concepts weren't accepted, those were really what C++ template metaprogramming needed < 1310968980 131978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he thinks I'm joking) < 1310968980 330021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something wasn't accepted? seriously? < 1310968986 270498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know about concepts? < 1310968994 868004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were half the size of C++ itself < 1310968997 686521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if the word has a specific technical meaning in the context of C++ < 1310968998 103729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hyperbole) < 1310969004 170104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and required a massive gcc fork to implement < 1310969009 2677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably to prove it was even humanly possible < 1310969009 844371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1310969017 37593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: take a skim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concepts_(C%2B%2B) < 1310969021 481999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the pending C++0x revision of the C++ programming language, concepts and the related notion of axioms were a proposed extension to C++'s template system, designed to improve compiler diagnostics and to allow programmers to codify in the program some formal properties of templates that they write. Incorporating these limited formal specifications into the program (in addition to improving code clarity) can guide some compiler optimizations, and < 1310969021 760936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : can potentially help improve program reliability through the use of formal verification tools to check that the implementation and specification actually match. < 1310969031 757170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was kind of like.... typeclasses < 1310969040 806798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except... used as a sort of formal verification system < 1310969042 545583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's someone trying to embed a different language into an existing one? < 1310969053 593547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wikipedia lists no prior art < 1310969059 666552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest a quick read of the article, it's truly jaw-droppingly C++ < 1310969063 401778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently too C++ for the committee < 1310969063 599745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1310969084 416514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of a random reddit poster saying that incomprehensible template error messages were the compile-time version of a segfault < 1310969090 515487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, that's an attempt to statically prevent segfaults < 1310969099 434052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, metastatically < 1310969115 597600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hope they were powerful enough to make a big C++ subset --> C++ template compiler easy-ish < 1310969128 263664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could propose to the committee to specify C++ templates based on the C++ semantics itself < 1310969134 964763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus shortening the report and allowing for further extension < 1310969141 141287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, say, allowing every C++ feature to be used at the type level < 1310969164 168437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Java-like solution to this would be to allow templates to extend each other < 1310969168 999367 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the C++ committee take the same crap that the html5 committee does? < 1310969176 588138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't /help/, but would be more javaish < 1310969186 867579 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: same crap as in what? < 1310969190 390678 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i actually meant XML < 1310969200 172590 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Most likely. < 1310969207 253565 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not know entirely what I mean.. but I hear the ISO is a joke < 1310969227 216404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, the axioms addition is very C++ish indeed < 1310969231 748399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it reminds me a bit of C99 < 1310969257 422618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I see the kind of feel you mean < 1310969262 310141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... on a C++ scale < 1310969292 936524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's a good description < 1310969314 661537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this reminds me a bit of listening to a piece of computer game music and trying to figure out what series it comes from by the style < 1310969315 102319 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for fake foreign accent) It is much the feeling that dependancy on C/C++ undermines potential of esoteric languages. < 1310969322 998210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only with programming languages < 1310969340 405416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not fake foreign accent, that's just academicspeak < 1310969345 489738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: C in particular has a view of the universe that was low-level once, but nowadays is an abstraction inversion < 1310969346 937993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the latter is an absorption of the former < 1310969365 997107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to do better < 1310969372 887195 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is danger in dependance. < 1310969375 628892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have a feeling the C committee went that way after someone came up to them with a copy of the Lisp Machine ZETA C compiler, and said "explain this". < 1310969411 83442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got annoyed with gcc-bf, because I just run into abstraction inversions everywhere, and it saddens me < 1310969424 706694 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstraction inversions? < 1310969433 240826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: java < 1310969438 253292 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, coppro asked the question I was going to ask < 1310969438 531132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that made sense when i typed it < 1310969451 539784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thus proving that neither of you can use Google (you're not ais523, you have no excuse) < 1310969452 19054 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dependance on c/c++ means that GNU can be led along by the c standard. < 1310969455 623987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: basically, when a language provides high-level concepts only, so if someone wants to use low-level concepts, they have to implement them in terms of the high-level concepts < 1310969458 180192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well, no < 1310969460 93729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU code in GNU C < 1310969466 69941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are again implemented in terms of low-level concepts < 1310969467 328036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't advance automatically with the C standard < 1310969467 620282 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, yes < 1310969468 691794 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they define their own standards? < 1310969475 978238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: --std=gnu99 < 1310969476 176014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: they refer to published ones < 1310969477 278254 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g.? < 1310969477 747329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can't change < 1310969483 911163 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1310969489 616224 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok its probably safe < 1310969491 458070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the classic example is synchronization in ADA, but most people, including me, don't know how it works < 1310969492 386258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change what the latest ISO standard for C is, but you can't change what ISO C90 is < 1310969494 837282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ada < 1310969497 627156 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can see the danger here right? < 1310969504 662727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it's just the trust issue. < 1310969510 208497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, you have to (depend|trust) someone. < 1310969515 808672 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, I mean "in C". < 1310969520 938985 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if google and microsoft lobby the standard < 1310969527 857445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know what abstraction inversion is, and can think of a few really good examples. < 1310969542 649154 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most obviously, implementing locking primitives in Erlang on top of its messaging. :) < 1310969546 107925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm... vectorised instructions, perhaps < 1310969563 523460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not quite what I mean, though < 1310969568 174868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think < 1310969577 236568 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should make a language called stallman < 1310969596 205985 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D every program needs to have the name stallman in the filename to compile < 1310969600 775639 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so you can do locking-based multithreading on top of message-passing multithreading on top of locking-based multithreading!) < 1310969630 434330 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :smacks my knee with jocularity < 1310969669 690853 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, ...why? No offense, really, but that sounds boring < 1310969696 885275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fetch/modify/store's a decent example, I think < 1310969706 390128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, all movement of data into and out of caches is implicit < 1310969735 908537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to do silly things normally used only by Vorpal, and weird unusual libraries, or else confusing code that doesn't really mean what it looks like it means, to get your memory access patterns to what you want < 1310969749 945973 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will anyone be mad at me if I strap my hash output language into a sucky thing like BF? < 1310969754 609458 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm uncreative < 1310969758 582198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1310969761 751116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't, but half the channel will < 1310969786 170817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't < 1310969788 687029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i won't care anyway :P < 1310969798 234872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH will, but PH already hates literally every person on the planet < 1310969809 429064 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Obvious solution is to ban 3/4ths of people from using C ever. < 1310969826 719532 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: Come up with a unique language just to show off the hash output. < 1310969827 577251 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't solve any of the problems with C, but it *does* make them hardly relevant! < 1310969850 627719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/SLOBOL? < 1310969871 72627 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have seen it but forgotten everything about it < 1310969876 754374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, look at it again < 1310969897 129980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hash source rather than hash output, but much the same thing < 1310969917 373578 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. It's the compiler that has to bruteforce hashes, not the program author. < 1310969934 742406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, on NetHackWiki, I just found a disambiguation page with two disambiguation headers < 1310969942 304797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it had to disambiguate what was being disambiguated < 1310969955 94882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity the other pages linked aren't dab pages too, or it would have been even better < 1310969992 884172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1310970008 708646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Fire < 1310970022 102095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's full of all the different pages relating to fire as in burning things < 1310970026 542478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why not just put it on top of BF, it won't really matter < 1310970031 189062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a header connecting to fire as in firing an arrow < 1310970031 486083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and make cells the size of a hash < 1310970037 267525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another one about a god in Slash'EM < 1310970054 425373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Wikipedia just uses different sections for homonyms like that < 1310970059 685568 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ooh, didn't think of that < 1310970076 49856 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was thinking I'd add ! to the commands, or something < 1310970134 571865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: means you get to use fun arithmetic to output the simplest things :D < 1310970146 800751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest quine will be, like, a gigabyte long < 1310970154 224913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so elegant < 1310970175 407868 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming there is a quine.. < 1310970194 253216 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: I don't know how you're using hashing in them outputs, but...) If you have a k-bit output from a hash function, and restrict yourself to k-bit inputs for it, I don't think it's very likely the function will be surjective, so you wouldn't be able to generate all possible outputs. < 1310970242 555194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: didn't the NSA go to a lot of trouble to prove that DES wasn't surjective? < 1310970243 621995 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually wait, the hash-sized cells restricts the possible inputs to the hash < 1310970275 162809 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would make it less likely that a quine exists, I thin < 1310970277 464958 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :think < 1310970309 696996 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mmmmaybe. It sounds like something that -- especially for a hash function -- would be really tricky to prove. < 1310970309 900115 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: poking light hearted fun at stallman's fixation on which words people use. stallmanhelloworld.gnu .. if gnu is the extension < 1310970314 547786 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe it was the round function? < 1310970328 412319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I imagine it was really tricky to prove < 1310970331 330092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it was far from obvious < 1310970341 37566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they had to in order to ensure that 3DES was harder to bruteforce than DES < 1310970449 105373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sgeo wants a language for which it's unknown whether a quine exists or not < 1310970453 234740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw don't use dha or whatever < 1310970453 790172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sha < 1310970460 784293 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had an idea about quines < 1310970464 806057 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a keyword quine < 1310970470 885045 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which produces a quine < 1310970486 279667 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :would piss people off < 1310970486 730002 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm, why not? < 1310970516 635786 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :presence of the word quine in the file would cause the program to compile a quine of the program" < 1310970527 763181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because you ideally want the hash to be two-hundred-and-fifty-seven bytes long. The first byte is "how many bytes of this hash to print" minus one. i.e. first byte = 0 means the one byte following will be printed. < 1310970541 581772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So this way we can specify only the valid lengths in the first byte and there are no edge cases. < 1310970568 812806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's a really nice hash that outputs an infinite stream that you just take the first N bytes of that you want; lemme find it < 1310970572 889915 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if first byte = 0 means that 0 bytes following will be printed < 1310970583 844965 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 256 byte hash < 1310970586 127007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, you could have that, but it means . could be a nop. < 1310970589 934280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not shared with brainfuck. < 1310970592 286611 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1310970592 760077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And seems kinda grosse. < 1310970599 20916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean there's no problem with it. < 1310970602 638412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't like it. :p < 1310970612 595709 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A scheme like that sounds like it would make it trivial to just bruteforce a set of hashes that start with "0000", "0001", "0002", ..., "00ff", and then use those for all output. < 1310970613 647196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, it means that . at the start of the program does nothing, rather than outputting a NUL byte < 1310970616 432835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I like less. < 1310970620 795160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, hmm, of course. < 1310970652 387084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I just cooked it up in three seconds after I told Sgeo that he obviously didn't have arbitrary output at an arbitrary point because ... < 1310970652 942458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdjfdsf < 1310970654 332662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1310970664 861284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Because of lengths etc. < 1310970671 744648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is dum
< 1310970688 930307 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Some sort of "remove trailing nulls" thing might work, except then you couldn't output trailing nulls. < 1310970698 552560 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Yes" to the lengths thing.) < 1310970700 910573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's also what I said. < 1310970707 349988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo could cheat and have an "output NUL byte" instruction. < 1310970710 517062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Erm. < 1310970712 903519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That fails too < 1310970715 856700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just calculate the prefixes again < 1310970719 13662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each byte you want < 1310970756 50455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, remove trailing nulls from the "final output". Okay, I guess that's not going to work if you want some output before the end of the program. < 1310970765 323677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's a good idea. < 1310970768 619044 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output transformer. Program can only output 1-255, but this somehow expands to 0-255. 0 is always and only at the end < 1310970773 460518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do what fizzie said, except don't filter the nuls outputted by @. < 1310970780 593201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where @ is the nul byte outputter instruction because I said so. < 1310970821 669554 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to sleep soon < 1310970825 48394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_smooth_hash oh this is cool < 1310970828 885438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really cool < 1310970878 823381 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... surjective or non-surjective? < 1310970891 829453 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wikis surjective
< 1310970900 212128 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can never keep the jectives straight
< 1310970928 73811 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1310970949 285139 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want unknown surjectivity < 1310970984 53427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasnt suggesting it < 1310970987 702232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just calling it cool < 1310970993 98671 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1310971031 973717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0k < 1310971087 547880 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws his initial idea for making doing computations in a language require reversing a hash out the window
< 1310971111 286725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was wrong with my idea < 1310971120 487202 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1310971125 130162 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye sgeo's initial idea for making doing computations in a language require reversing a hash < 1310971125 825646 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about your idea < 1310971141 57400 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll miss you < 1310971148 837902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ok < 1310971267 41318 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should throw it out here to be fixed up: Just stuff separated by ! that when hashed, must result in BF code. < 1310971292 204265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm reading TV Tropes again < 1310971295 710708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I enjoy it and have time < 1310971299 330194 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it's too easy to just do a bunch of brute-forcing to get each of the BF commands, then just use that forever < 1310971306 736938 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since no-ops are pretty easy < 1310971308 71033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, Firefox 3 opens tabs in IE order rather than Firefox 1 order < 1310971321 197710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does actually make a huge difference when visiting TV Tropes < 1310971321 395707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is Chrome order? < 1310971331 875698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably IE order, everything uses it nowadays < 1310971346 523787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :opening a tab next to the page that contained the link you clicked on < 1310971357 709291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Chrome opens tabs to the right of the last middle-click-opened tab; if you've switched tabs since you last did some middle-clicking, I'm not entirely sure how it decides < 1310971357 946874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Firefox 1 opened it at the end, leading to you reading in a queue rather than a stack_) < 1310971371 347077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's IE order < 1310971373 217216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it either goes to the right of the current tab or to the right of the tab bar, it seems < 1310971378 132638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, apparent nondeterminism? < 1310971388 802413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never did figure out exactly what caused which of those to happen < 1310971392 527500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly don't know how it's deciding where to put the first, but I'll just assume it's doing something Terribly Clever < 1310971399 305535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works for me, anyway < 1310971488 560388 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attention Sgeo: Sleep is not optional. < 1310971503 303735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1310971504 172079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1310971596 35224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I was reading TV Tropes and came across a reference to me < 1310971597 818877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was unexpected < 1310971609 446399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although inevitable in retrospect < 1310971637 655258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the nethack article? < 1310971641 70507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is guessing
< 1310971644 394761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1310971650 796262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might even be able to figure out what for < 1310971656 577094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your stupid fame < 1310971657 949689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TAEB < 1310971660 553000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1310971663 330894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ace < 1310971663 931364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't seen it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9oMSPzChgk < 1310971667 89461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310971670 293245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the speedrun < 1310971672 516128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he says without clicking) < 1310971674 185023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that either < 1310971678 174890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :speedrun isn't finished < 1310971682 92377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, fastest death < 1310971683 77172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally an April Fool's joke < 1310971688 438590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1310971691 665979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that beep hurt < 1310971698 973536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame the encoder, not me < 1310971699 171716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the start < 1310971710 378284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a slower version............. < 1310971711 221328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whoever wrote the bootup sequence of DOS < 1310971722 206047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't see much more, I gave a transcript in the comments < 1310971746 412559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: RNG cheat, wish for an item, touch it in a way that makes you die? < 1310971750 131760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@kinkkku I quote the submission text: «A female Tourist comes into the dungeon, finds a shiny artifact silver saber (Grayswandir) on the stairs she entered by [...], picks it up (the default options pick up all items you come across), takes damage from touching the artifact (a 1 in 4 chance for an unintelligent crossaligned artifact like the lawful Grayswandir for a neutral Tourist; [...]), and dies from the damage (around a 52% chance for a < 1310971750 330108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting Tourist [...])» < 1310971750 527681 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1310971753 835945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1310971756 36371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, summariser < 1310971759 960757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would involve getting control of the character < 1310971768 453914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me around 2 and a half million tries < 1310971772 792592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat? < 1310971778 791567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at < 1310971780 542829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: that would involve getting control of the character < 1310971784 129773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eventually, I stumbled across a game where I died before gaining control of the characer < 1310971785 650541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*character < 1310971787 845887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's theoretically possible < 1310971790 494019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310971795 111575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1310971795 309789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :touching a cockatrice corpse < 1310971796 861313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on your spawn spot < 1310971799 353805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you spawned blind < 1310971800 187916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I knew it was, so just left my computer running for a week playing games until it happened < 1310971803 986236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1310971805 654121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't spawn blind, but you have the right idea < 1310971808 723417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310971810 120914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same sort of thing < 1310971813 623820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Grayswandir was generated on the upstairs, he picked it up due to autopickup, and it blasted him." < 1310971818 691526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310971820 671058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you go: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=267682#267682 < 1310971826 336397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought it meant fastest in realtime < 1310971845 58331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I finish input before the game loads, is that fast enough? < 1310971845 997806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, is that post just what i quoted but with really long aistext in the [...]s? < 1310971849 722429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no < 1310971859 155374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310971861 205634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thoguht you wrote that < 1310971862 554645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you didn't < 1310971866 718114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought < 1310971867 521836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a transcript of all the text the game would output if I hadn't skipped it < 1310971878 605709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1310971885 343206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it is fastest in realtime, anyway < 1310971890 567243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything slower in gametime means actually inputting commands < 1310971897 663832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, Patashu, get out of that thread < 1310971898 17507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's bound to be slower than ending input before the game loads < 1310971902 900165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am seriously worried about how tiny the internet is < 1310971923 640792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally can't go anywhere without running into someone I've seen before somewhere completely unrelated < 1310971950 4367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why would input take any sort of time? < 1310971963 237643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because you overflow the BIOS keyboard buffer eventually < 1310971973 81416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh; write a PureDOS < 1310971975 28081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you type too early, the keys are interpreted as interrupting the boot process < 1310971989 320926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of some specification of the xeightsix's semantics < 1310972000 585617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then normalise its results to some cycles/sec count < 1310972004 512464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, the whole point is to emulate the real hardware as accurately as you can < 1310972015 563704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack doesn't _have_ hardware! < 1310972015 841800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually had to submit a patch to the emulator so that it would run NetHack < 1310972032 907087 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't it run NetHack? < 1310972036 148031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was a case of improving its handling of a particular edge case that was nonetheless exploited a lot by DJGPP < 1310972043 523170 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1310972054 449058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: basicaly, DJGPP does __int86 by using self-modifying code to overwrite the argument of an int instruction < 1310972062 499094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310972063 430285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and JPC-RR's pipeline was longer than NetHack expected < 1310972065 123041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is beautiful < 1310972065 613778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*basically < 1310972073 333349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of hate pipelining because of that < 1310972075 275313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instruction caches < 1310972078 822316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-modifying code is so nice < 1310972085 918125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I added code to do a simulated pipeline stall if the code tried to self-modify < 1310972095 633532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stalls the pipeline a bit faster than real hardware does, but NetHack doesn't notice < 1310972109 232646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither would anything else unless it were specifically trying to detect an emulator < 1310972120 34091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently some games have done that as an anti-cheating measure) < 1310972149 618026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, naughty TV Tropes, assuming I'm male without asking < 1310972160 261523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suppose someone who already knew I was might have added that < 1310972180 7431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to track down a citation for ais523 being male with Google
< 1310972194 512673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it exists but will be nontrivial to find < 1310972215 922676 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't #esoteric logs work? < 1310972216 617994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=User%3Aais523 is the second result for "ais523 male"... < 1310972222 652237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it can't interpret < 1310972229 715697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1310972229 913489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not if google doesn't find them < 1310972250 405030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are not too many male admins wearing rouge, because I like men in makeup .... We still have one: {{subst:User:Ais523/User wikipedia/RC patrol (NCR)}}. ... < 1310972256 121672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Wikipedia talk:No climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spider-Man ... < 1310972260 319373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, ais523 is a male admin wearing rouge < 1310972261 952348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only one, in fact < 1310972271 458581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, that's not a reference to me < 1310972275 573500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SSSSHHHHH < 1310972278 601469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have userfied the userbox in question < 1310972284 220841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't imply anything about my gender < 1310972291 969211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact, IIRC I /created/ it) < 1310972307 931800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that quote doesn't even appear on that page, seemingly < 1310972328 800012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am allergic to cologne, and therefore will need to scale in protest.[citation needed] There are not too many male admins wearing rouge, because I like men in makeup.[citation needed] - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 01:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC) < 1310972337 198134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1310972344 646059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that ... is cheating < 1310972348 672911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems it just picked your signature up because i mentioned it < 1310972350 591123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even in an unrelated comment! < 1310972358 48568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's not a sig, it's a userbox < 1310972367 968197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sig has a link to my user, user talk, contribs pages < 1310972368 166353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1310972370 984479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :user twice, in fact < 1310972373 134790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1310972377 16381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just cheating b- < 1310972380 159279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[PDF] Lamborghini Miura < 1310972380 357512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.macchinaveloce.com/.../wikipedia-book-pdf_lamborghini-miura_...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View < 1310972380 357697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 Jan 2011 – The three men worked on the car's design at night, hoping to sway ..... Aetherfukz, After Midnight, Ais523, Alanraywiki, Alansohn, Alhutch, ... < 1310972393 20470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that even < 1310972414 356925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some spambots were using usernames taken from Wikipedia a while back to confuse spam filters < 1310972417 306523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that's it < 1310972431 822354 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's brilliant < 1310972432 518203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION concludes that he/she has no real reason to believe that ais523 is male
< 1310972450 808849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jokes only ais will get . com < 1310972499 515403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you male < 1310972514 181107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of question is that? < 1310972522 935392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a question that Google will index the answer to :-D < 1310972681 320213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QDB: Best of the Queue < 1310972681 598168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.qdb.us/queue/best/5 - Cached and i have a fantasy about having 2 men at once: one for .... meh, I've been so busy in RL recently I've hardly been sleeping at all ... < 1310972683 337473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is qdb famous < 1310972689 127858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like bash famous but slightly less popular < 1310972695 607026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i give up, i'm going to refer to ais523 with spivak from now on < 1310972711 864751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refer to /myself/ with singular they in /me, because it seems weird otherwise < 1310972722 796281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use gendered pronouns without hesitating nowadays < 1310972756 344910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's simpler than worrying whether I'm making assumptions about my own gender < 1310972803 919293 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should return to myself as "it". that'd be cool. too bad I don't use /me at all ever < 1310972821 521632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" is a cool pronoun i approve of it < 1310972825 842832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're hardly the first to though monqy < 1310972862 944024 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone consider it offensive to be referred to as "it" < 1310972897 123200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably most people for whom it isn't their preferred pronoun < 1310972899 906175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind, for the record < 1310972906 785447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it might confuse me the first few times < 1310972951 806461 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only grammatical gender wasn't a thing. then I would be less unhappy. < 1310972972 217645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammatical gender must be such a fucking pain < 1310972977 159723 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't see ais523 on there < 1310972986 511513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1310972991 424618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's clearly a cached version < 1310973001 751889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: can i call you it, that would be cool. or wait how about punctuation < 1310973003 988093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I call you -- < 1310973004 405048 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1310973030 841744 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- is the new personal pronoun? < 1310973034 965740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310973041 653066 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm cool with it so long as I know what it means < 1310973044 132311 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION submitted himself to bash once. Everyone hated it.
< 1310973051 230414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks that -- is going to use "--" forever
< 1310973053 947501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "everyone"? < 1310973058 970812 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: --self :P < 1310973060 920380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a mod will have seen it < 1310973062 735464 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Not literally everyone < 1310973065 123244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it got APPROVED < 1310973070 766769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. one person < 1310973128 592405 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, by bash I may have meant qdb < 1310973147 203302 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ther are votes on it < 1310973157 263586 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 votes, although it no longer shows up as approved < 1310973187 176932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/297375 < 1310973200 978683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/search?q=%23esoteric&order=real_score&sort=desc&limit=25&approved=-1 < 1310973204 113622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1310973204 311251 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good quote very funny < 1310973205 85625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im there < 1310973206 894278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its good voted < 1310973211 158342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I;M FANOUS < 1310973224 341153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fanous monqy < 1310973233 111562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1310973236 816833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo submitted a quote < 1310973239 229443 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre famouse < 1310973240 340616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in his client's format < 1310973247 81080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1310973268 969244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems to be an excerpt of random channel banter :D < 1310973286 116576 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe if you didn't submit it yourself in a fit of "omg I'm so funny" but rather waited until you said something that someone else found worth quoting, your first quote would be better < 1310973297 159369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/298929 < 1310973301 527086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ITS ALMOST HALF RATED GOOD < 1310973305 876750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG OMG OMG OMG IM SO FANOUS < 1310973308 607846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzoquote's rating is appropriately "?". < 1310973314 639625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner i am so fanous < 1310973351 492497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it ok to vote myself up DONT CARE SUCKAS DOING IT ANYWAY < 1310973353 582279 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the reasoning I use to prevent myself from quoting all my super awesome puns just because no-one else did) < 1310973371 466570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://qdb.us/303709 < 1310973382 172730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: plz explain your proximity to an imitator of I < 1310973464 716745 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a single well-voted bash.org-quote -- http://bash.org/?39012 -- and I can't quite recall if it was from #esoteric or not. Based on the content it might well be, though the other speaker's nick doesn't sound that familiar. < 1310973513 595603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1310973523 645595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it was unlogged. < 1310973545 174411 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have all the logs memorized or something? < 1310973546 7137 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in my logs either, and I suppose I was on-channel at the time. < 1310973551 221450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i have a copy < 1310973586 130545 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's a much more realistic explanation < 1310973591 119720 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should wget them or something at some point < 1310973598 143486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or sync with Gregor's project < 1310973603 522212 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel willing to use cygwin < 1310973611 777934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gregor's project"? < 1310973615 21609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need rsync for windows. < 1310973618 422580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/302321 <-- wat < 1310973679 324345 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now very curious as to what network that was
< 1310973712 612823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zamabe [~zamabe@i.saw.this.giant.bird.and.his.name.was.linux] has quit [G-Lined: Spam sucks.] < 1310973713 45103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good hostname < 1310973736 156086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christ is clearly Gamzee < 1310973739 726822 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Chris < 1310973747 75178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chris, christ < 1310973748 799926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference < 1310973760 39450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : like there was this one day I took three grams of sugar and few litres of coke and some assorted lego mindstorm bits and made sense out of them < 1310973763 331640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what does it MEAN????? < 1310973802 830406 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://honk-honk.org/ well, that's pathetically boring < 1310973878 563184 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: More context would maybe make SENSE out of it, but I can't find any of this stuff from my logs. They must be in the -- dramatic pause -- OLD LOGS. Annoying that bash.org doesn't show a submission timestamp. (But the numbers are pretty low, they're around 900k now.) < 1310973902 696501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This is why you should never snort Lego Mindstorm bits. < 1310973915 97096 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is bash.org even older than 2002/2003? < 1310973926 916968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 isn't it? < 1310973932 729690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an Institution(tm). < 1310973953 499933 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :© QDB 1999-2011, All Rights Reserved. if that means anything < 1310973953 698053 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :old enough that it has always existed < 1310973955 377118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: plz tell wikipedia they need an article on bash.org. thx < 1310973963 826597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: thanks, it < 1310973972 564084 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310973976 222624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: [[Wikipedia:Requested articles]]? < 1310973982 659327 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to throw this router in the trash < 1310973984 968383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's probably existed a thousand times :P < 1310973996 216291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1310974003 225141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody ever reads requested articles anyway < 1310974016 36257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"here's a lot of _actually difficult_ non-gnome work to do" < 1310974019 470798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"enjoy" < 1310974068 439467 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1310974142 131049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you know of any tolerable non-Java JVM languages? < 1310974148 706626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clojure sucks, Scala sucks, Python sucks, Ruby sucks, ... :( < 1310974150 926636 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, this xkcd is more of a ... pitch for some sci-fi show, than an actual comic < 1310974153 622924 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala sucks? < 1310974159 894986 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clojure sucks? < 1310974161 980401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why did you add "non-Java" to "tolerable"? < 1310974171 143239 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Mindstorm one seems to come from Mar 29, 2002, and here's the context that will make it all sensible: http://p.zem.fi/37do < 1310974174 376345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, Java is... tolerable, it just shortens your lifetime. < 1310974179 385542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have expected you to think of Java as tolerable, even though you'd been writing in it < 1310974191 904301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Suddenly it makes SENSE. Also you had no tab-complete. < 1310974199 170295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not good or acceptable, it's just... tolerable. < 1310974204 321101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not, for instance, yet dead. < 1310974209 285863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare if I'd been using PHP. < 1310974216 410269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1310974223 418836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, < 1310974225 697210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not, for instance, yet dead. < 1310974228 825318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has an insanely weird rhythm < 1310974242 126299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading proggit discussing PHP deprecating the mysql library (in favour of mysqli) < 1310974245 771185 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do like how mooz's "standard" way of decoding ROT13 is to run it through a Befunge program. That's dedication. < 1310974259 221070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're deprecating it in one of the worst ways possible (in particular, generating no deprecation warnings) < 1310974264 583607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that mooz guy sounds totally cool, he should drop his life and come have fun with us :( < 1310974278 109459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a firefox extension to derot13 stuff < 1310974279 667157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is PHP, if they do anything like that they'll get murdered by the users < 1310974295 733812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure register_globals' deprecation was met with insane fury and footstomping < 1310974302 472457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, too, magic quotes < 1310974303 862251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing doesn't even support parametrized queries! < 1310974305 682605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, magic quotes < 1310974309 141954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you BELIEVE magic quotes?? < 1310974310 183615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what did magic quotes do? < 1310974319 178821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what register_globals did, and why it's an insanely bad idea < 1310974320 237532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: automatically escaped every quote/backslash in query/form parameters < 1310974323 338549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you would avoid SQL injections < 1310974329 31294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1310974330 575144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, ouch < 1310974336 854255 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... not the right way to avoid SQL injections < 1310974340 688399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst thing is, in some cases that might actually work < 1310974341 660951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you had to strip the slashes to output them < 1310974342 797494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just makes it worse < 1310974347 81364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazing < 1310974357 644635 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dead < 1310974359 588492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kiled me < 1310974363 675696 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does anyone not know the right way to avoid SQL injections? < 1310974368 456764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: php < 1310974373 595697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like undefined behaviour, defined as "does more or less what you want except when you demonstrate it to a customer" < 1310974375 196290 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they've HEARD of it, I mean, how do they not know < 1310974391 516596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: well, we are talking 1997/1998 < 1310974404 733478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably didn't hear of it, someone probably just complained that their site got hacked < 1310974411 99507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they looked at the ogs < 1310974411 762370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logs < 1310974414 653031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aha, we need to escape this" < 1310974421 61017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it would be convenient if you didn't have to" < 1310974425 348055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so that you couldn't make mistakes like this" < 1310974426 927345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an hour later... < 1310974447 955138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: when magic quotes was introduced, < 1310974460 860021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP still did loops by fseek()ing back to the start of the loop upon reaching its end < 1310974461 246790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have a better idea for something that has PHP levels of awful and yet is not as bad as magic quotes < 1310974463 492318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and continuing execution from there < 1310974466 92433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow < 1310974468 759827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : im double dead < 1310974478 942876 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the mailing lists archived somewhere? < 1310974486 292538 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To actually see the thought processes < 1310974487 266140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you change the string concatenate operator to escape things it concatenates other than string literals < 1310974489 691379 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of speculating < 1310974499 421056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and wow, that is a pretty ridiculous way to do loops < 1310974521 473295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you have a SQL query tree, then it makes sense for a string node to be escaped in conversion to raw textual SQL < 1310974523 992673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is sane < 1310974529 372102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't involve a concatenation operator, though < 1310974530 223695 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why would anyone ever do loops like that < 1310974534 617859 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fseek()? That sounds like opening the file and I guess, in this context, executing part of it? < 1310974534 816242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you used string interpolation, it'd look about the same < 1310974544 360834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Never reading the dragon book? < 1310974545 651814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: X_X < 1310974547 535877 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it amazes me how php manages to exist < 1310974558 317824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ghod, magic quotes. There were even separate settings for magic_quotes_gpc (for GET/POST/COOKIE fields) and magic_cookies_runtime (for database/fread/most-but-not-all-external-sources data), and you could never know which values will and will not have magically escaped quotes. < 1310974561 365380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, concatenation is really weird if you're thinking of an ast < 1310974573 873941 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fseek() + an eval, I guess? < 1310974577 195972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (select foo from) has to be a "partial query"... basically, wherever the parser ends up, you ... oh it's a zipper < 1310974582 549624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is PHP, I'm just thinking of "whatever's hackiest to implement" < 1310974586 46316 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :although wouldn't that hit stack overflow? < 1310974586 741512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you navigate down the parsetree with a zipper as you construct it < 1310974588 270345 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current PHP docs: "There is no reason to use magic quotes because they are no longer a supported part of PHP. However, they did exist and did help a few beginners blissfully and unknowingly write better (more secure) code. But, when dealing with code that relies upon this behavior it's better to update the code instead of turning magic quotes on. So why did this feature exist? Simple, to help prevent SQL Injection. Today developers are better aware of security < 1310974588 468705 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end up using database specific escaping mechanisms and/or prepared statements instead of relying upon features like magical quotes." < 1310974590 152440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when you reach the end ) < 1310974593 639436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you store that zipper < 1310974594 890898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the object < 1310974597 644424 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, "it made sense back then", they say. < 1310974599 361678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a+b < 1310974605 528205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replaces the hole in a < 1310974608 987513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with b < 1310974610 135720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reminds me a bit of the metasyntactic variable - in maths < 1310974619 932470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if a is a holy-parse-tree) < 1310974632 459867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(select a from) + (foo.) + bar --> select a from foo.bar < 1310974640 19379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is used to construct, basically, parse trees with holes in < 1310974647 863903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1310974652 465962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's more like mixfix, but yes < 1310974665 69815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, it's more like defining arbitrary operators i.e. mixfix, than a parse tree < 1310974671 814773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because mathematics doesn't really /have/ parse trees < 1310974679 109501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not ones that even vaguely match up to the syntactic form < 1310974746 875053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh man these holy parse trees are cool < 1310974749 441617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1310974750 681350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1310974760 275224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*holey? < 1310974762 971439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the typo deliberate? < 1310974764 47584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310974766 500996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fun typo < 1310974770 696910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deliberypo < 1310974780 600182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what ((select a from) + (where b=9)) results in < 1310974792 798344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, clearly you just need a subtree-insert operation < 1310974796 684587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like inserting in a string < 1310974800 165830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : so you have to do silly things normally used only by Vorpal, and weird unusual libraries, or else confusing code that doesn't really mean what it looks like it means, to get your memory access patterns to what you want <--- XD < 1310974815 833849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"silly things normally" < 1310974825 685330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/normally// < 1310974827 506262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert(1, sometable, (select a from) + (where b=9)) --> select a from sometable where b=9 < 1310974830 729843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: beuatiful < 1310974835 617413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, I don't actually have to implement posix_memadvise or whatever it's called < 1310974855 970452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, posix_madvise iird < 1310974858 786769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc* < 1310974861 237605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1310974869 346313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, secret project < 1310974882 250980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not very secret if you blab about it < 1310974884 950897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains anything I do that results in obscure questions about Linux internals < 1310974900 26986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: STUPID PUBLIC LOGBOTS < 1310974903 97485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, writing fakeinit < 1310974909 816358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when will it stop being secret < 1310974918 617982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: when, if ever, it's finished < 1310974931 323057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good thing Feather wasn't under that, then < 1310974933 664199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we'd never hear about it < 1310974939 514253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1310974940 244530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not that interesting to this community anyway, other than in being generally insane and programming-related < 1310974960 447793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you mean, it is interesting to this community? < 1310974964 802111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is it secret < 1310974981 561400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, convoluted reasons < 1310974988 773194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s/convoluted/secret/ < 1310975006 439162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are really minor, in that the reasons don't really justify the effort I have to go to to stop anyone figuring out exactly what I'm doing < 1310975049 366540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, NDA? < 1310975056 547502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310975059 382492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1310975065 380950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be a lot more cautious if it were an NDA < 1310975066 547208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1310975080 799140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I care about is that people don't figure out exactly what I'm doing, or at least why < 1310975101 124219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :figuring out approximately what is fine < 1310975105 581363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it makes no sense out of context < 1310975112 644482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway the fact that you even consider "implementing" posix_madvise indicates it is a libc, OS or similar. < 1310975124 450475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is actually implementing Microcosm < 1310975137 340063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that could be it yes. < 1310975140 909569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, it's secret but not for official reasons? < 1310975148 422881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't love us :'''''''''''( < 1310975149 526303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may ask someone to explain user-mode Linux to me at some point, but I don't think it does what I want < 1310975157 282508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1310975158 395033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's secret for really inane and pointless reasons < 1310975164 589010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me want to keep it secret all the more < 1310975165 714257 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1310975177 472211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lamest???? signs point to YES < 1310975190 601925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well said < 1310975200 353596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't an OS, at least < 1310975201 989726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not exactly < 1310975204 642542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some similarities < 1310975228 36443 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML is very obvious from the name; it just runs an instance of the kernel as a user-mode task, without most of the drivers since they're not necessary, and some plumbing back to the host. < 1310975233 485376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I know < 1310975267 223715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I could even tell people its name and they wouldn't know what it did, but that's because it's not a very descriptive name < 1310975270 517127 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like some sort of A New Kind Of OS. < 1310975273 397265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: update < 1310975278 866521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dododododo < 1310975283 154950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's @ < 1310975285 86116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1310975287 33262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not going to, because I suck at maintaining deceptions < 1310975294 884129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we will wear you down eventually < 1310975306 395310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, why is everyone so excited? < 1310975307 683683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave that to elliott yes < 1310975319 223311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because it sounds interesting < 1310975346 765076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this the always PID 2-project? < 1310975351 637696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's fakeinit < 1310975352 706612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1310975353 957122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is apparently part of it < 1310975355 943510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fakeinit's part of it < 1310975360 243527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bit's easy < 1310975360 441980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh come on, with your track record, we're interested in everything you do by definition < 1310975367 354991 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1310975368 995618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that init doesn't actually do very much < 1310975373 768806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have to, at least < 1310975393 501339 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: http://io.smashthestack.org:84/intro/ < 1310975395 922722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: hs update < 1310975464 95564 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah < 1310975464 330872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1310975467 935028 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush < 1310975485 3659 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really like the graphical demo < 1310975517 50757 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they could use the existing partition table as a possible source of data for autogenerating more interesting graphical presentations < 1310975631 776962 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1310975716 967175 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ty < 1310976197 483349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310976201 119950 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310976247 73379 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does it say about me that the first thing I thought in this recent patch of Java coding when I found that the Bukkit API forces you to use instanceof was "but that breaks parametricity!"? < 1310976274 703029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: that you're still thinking in terms of actual OO as compared to practical real world Java OO < 1310976283 869314 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, parametricity is a functional thing < 1310976298 715929 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it breaks down slightly with _|_, IIRC < 1310976301 894752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, there's an OO equivalent that's basically the same thing < 1310976306 361056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :substitutability, or something < 1310976311 125493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with different names < 1310976314 377777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instanceof is bad, anyway < 1310976317 938939 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that Liskov substitution? < 1310976321 127696 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :principle < 1310976324 755658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, could be < 1310976330 252126 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what parametricity is, really < 1310976335 499570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time I've used instanceof is to work around a really badly designed API < 1310976345 553539 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with Bukkit, it seems reasonable enough < 1310976361 504514 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e.g. in the body of a /command, you have a CommandSender < 1310976372 644910 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which could be the server console, a player, or < 1310976377 378239 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can execute commands in code) < 1310976383 486824 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if you want to do something player-specific... < 1310976390 966206 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (sender instanceof Player) ... < 1310976402 453701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those should be subclasses of CommandSender, surely? < 1310976407 20526 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably there could be a nicer way of doing it, but I can't think of a similarly extensible one off the top of my head < 1310976407 562494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, of Command < 1310976411 439562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CommandSentByPlayer, etc < 1310976418 757826 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, there is no such Command object < 1310976420 705612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Java's lack of multiple inheritance stops that working properly < 1310976427 614628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what represents the /command itself? < 1310976427 874163 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an event handler < 1310976435 760344 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command < 1310976438 296421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, have different listeners, then < 1310976452 640577 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jd.bukkit.org/apidocs/org/bukkit/command/Command.html < 1310976456 715758 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jd.bukkit.org/apidocs/org/bukkit/command/CommandSender.html < 1310976569 117396 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DefaultCommands is the only plugin you need for your server! It has everything!" < 1310976574 937595 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual quote < 1310976736 536617 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Infer Nullity" --IntelliJ IDEA < 1310976760 246644 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone implemented nullity for a popular programming language? < 1310976815 846057 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does NaN count? < 1310976920 23183 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1310976936 241563 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bookofparagon.com/Mathematics/PerspexMachineIX.pdf good paper < 1310976994 216695 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Imagine you're landing on an aeroplane and the automatic pilot's working," he suggests. "If it divides by zero and the computer stops working - you're in big trouble. If your heart pacemaker divides by zero, you're dead." < 1310976995 304295 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1310976997 687748 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot how amazing. < 1310977011 905681 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to wiki, whether it equals itself is the only significant difference < 1310977080 670851 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop abbreviating wikipedia as wiki < 1310977109 540483 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I allowed to abbreviate c2 wiki as wiki < 1310977110 128179 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1310977142 94041 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310977146 62572 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1310977175 806315 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1310977177 419619 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no < 1310977229 226246 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I'm on Windows 7 now, I may be able to get Haskell working < 1310977255 119930 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading the platform installer... < 1310977342 326726 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing < 1310977359 855138 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should provide us a progress bar too. < 1310977369 693290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TV Tropes queue emptied < 1310977380 186901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was surprising, to say the least, I expected it to last longer < 1310977396 817599 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting good at escaping TVTropes < 1310977397 15408 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat, you ran out of tv tropes? < 1310977398 904811 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too good < 1310977405 153684 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: tell ais523 about your system < 1310977408 932467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, i don't follow every link < 1310977415 750488 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I managed to escape TV Tropes perfectly < 1310977419 53439 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and permanently < 1310977423 304723 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also need to remember to use full stops. < 1310977424 438772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I tend to follow less than 1 link on average from each page < 1310977430 153502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: don't tell me you memorized the whole thing? < 1310977446 39781 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like the semicolons of written language < 1310977467 701717 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, i started finding people casually dropping trope terminology as a substitute for actually knowing anything about fiction sufficiently annoying that every time I read a page it's insanely obnoxious < 1310977474 361997 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've developed a natural resistance < 1310977475 720307 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go my brain < 1310977484 990815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1310977530 843703 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My system consists of a .txt file of tvtropes URLs; there's about 60 or so in there. I pick from there at random, and then add any interesting-sounding non-duplicate links at the end of the file. < 1310977554 116494 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make it an sql database; then you don't have to worry about duplicates < 1310977556 76630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's not too dissimilar from mine, except that I do more than one at a time < 1310977563 482516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and queue rather than picking at random < 1310977573 432134 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My escape system is, think of something else, close the browser in one go, realise I'm not in TVTropes anymore, celebrate. < 1310977579 809309 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell installed < 1310977620 641944 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's an idea: a script that detects if you ever click a link you've clicked before this session; if you do, it closes the tab you clicked it on < 1310977637 973915 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually, you'll get sufficiently paranoid of clicking links that you'll give up < 1310977638 529629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: why would that help? < 1310977642 553280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1310977645 513339 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, I suppose, run out of links that don't self-destruct < 1310977653 646178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I click duplicates sometimes, but they don't take much effort to close < 1310977663 514752 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's just a "this has gone on way too long" signal :D < 1310977676 759078 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since it closes duplicates, there's no way to get back a page it takes away from you < 1310977678 844213 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always seem to end up at the page for Futurama < 1310977711 832786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it happened to me recently, which makes sense as I stay within related groups of pages < 1310977730 734212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people normally browse it aimlessly? < 1310977736 168661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I go there to look up something in particular < 1310977753 885535 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people end up on it and then can't get out because every link looks interesting < 1310977788 19498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the links that look interesting to me tend to form a finite subset, and be only a couple on each page < 1310977804 656107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eventually they end up forming a walled garden, when I disregard links I don't care about < 1310977805 629281 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're lucky < 1310977811 696128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also helps that I have some of the more common targets memorized < 1310977821 914871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it's reaching the point that I can often guess what's behind a piped link too < 1310977994 818402 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is wtf-is-latin's-code:generis etymologically related to en:generic at all? < 1310978006 445396 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in sui generis < 1310978030 825228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin is la: < 1310978033 244910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know < 1310978060 116388 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, I can find out < 1310978072 826424 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is < 1310978090 922721 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic: "Etymology: Either < post-classical Latin genericus (a1315; also 1644 in Descartes), or directly < classical Latin gener-, genus kind (see genus n.) + -ic suffix." < 1310978112 148415 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1310978256 748700 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variables in Haskell do not vary? < 1310978267 191840 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why the hell are they called variables? < 1310978285 278664 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: got a better name? < 1310978288 355586 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric : name < 1310978295 912778 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: But really, they vary as much as variables do in mathematics < 1310978300 850078 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x = x + 9 < 1310978302 865672 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is a variable < 1310978314 217290 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense < 1310978314 415388 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't actually call f a variable... < 1310978321 197045 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is one, technically, I'd say < 1310978329 383693 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1310978331 653391 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Reading LYAH? < 1310978343 949932 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just Wikibooks < 1310978347 563831 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ew < 1310978351 417745 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't < 1310978357 630721 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a very good tutorial at all IMO < 1310978380 639968 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://learnyouahaskell.com/ is the best tutorial but if you really can't stand cartoon animals then I guess Real World Haskell might suffice < 1310978463 352976 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Or, well, read what you want but if you suffer eternally then I warned you :-P < 1310978525 680509 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the pointers < 1310978662 396430 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Real World Haskell is also good to read after LYAH; it's good on the overall "how to structure and write a Haskell program" which isn't easy to see coming from imperative languages, but less so on the details of the actual language which LYAH covers bettwe < 1310978664 290206 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1310979998 136335 :Taneb_!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310980099 272589 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1310980295 659573 :Taneb_!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 NICK :Taneb < 1310980557 985241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1310980830 131584 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's pretty neat < 1310980921 790741 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2^x|x<-[1..10]] < 1310980937 108613 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The elegance of that is outstanding < 1310981267 817871 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (2^) [1..10] < 1310981268 905514 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftfy < 1310981336 700536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> 2.^(1:10) < 1310981336 898484 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans = < 1310981336 898650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Columns 1 through 9 < 1310981336 898760 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 < 1310981339 811524 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the MATLAB in us. < 1310981343 88345 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1310981369 701954 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How does MATLAB print arrays longer than the screen? < 1310981375 174969 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, "Columns 1 through 9" < 1310981378 531899 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess it just truncates them < 1310981380 646450 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross < 1310981388 617115 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It continues on the second line with "Column 10". < 1310981391 427073 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't bother pasting. < 1310981413 216524 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The output formatting is not very pretty in general, though. < 1310981480 759921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's a spreadsheet-like matrix viewer in the GUI side.) < 1310981945 580944 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310981949 280079 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find the matlab ui appaling < 1310982096 42934 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it usual to nest packages in Java to provide a hierarchy? < 1310982101 981732 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than prefixing a bunch of class names < 1310982111 874401 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not, since you can't import them qualified like that < 1310982243 528173 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The larger collections in the standard runtime do have some hierarchical packagemancy going on. E.g. java.awt has java.awt.font, java.awt.color, java.awt.image and so on for not-used-all-the-time specializations. < 1310982321 806660 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1310982345 49179 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's net.[secret].[secret].MiscellaneousCommands vs. net.[secret].[secret].commands.Miscellaneous. < 1310982957 990386 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1310982960 415432 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1310984375 717570 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1310984379 978486 :FireFly!~firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se QUIT :Changing host < 1310984380 176398 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1310984602 490810 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1310984611 662919 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1310984868 670611 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: long time no nick < 1310985416 914166 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> take 5 $ fix (+1) 0 < 1310985422 278767 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 $ fix (+1) 0 < 1310985423 795206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a]) < 1310985423 993249 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_1510' at take 5 $ iterate (+1) 0 < 1310985517 526714 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it provides general recursion < 1310985518 81879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,2,3,4] < 1310985525 25748 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't imply infinite loops by any stretch < 1310985527 649995 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 $ fix (1:) < 1310985528 623593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,1,1,1] < 1310985562 135029 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fact me 0 = 1; fact me n = n * me (n-1) in fix fact 9 < 1310985562 864915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 362880 < 1310985565 375664 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: note how fact doesn't refer to itself < 1310985573 711286 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix f === f (fix f) < 1310985614 657322 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1310985632 613264 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that's the implementation, almost < 1310985640 21209 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's actually "fix f = let x = f x in x" for sharing) < 1310985668 907544 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ($) < 1310985670 121809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> b) < 1310985670 320035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1310985694 362258 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix ($) < 1310985695 196805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b < 1310985696 918587 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is quite sure she has at least one type wrong.
< 1310985698 241120 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful < 1310985700 225581 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ($) 9 < 1310985708 87200 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: are you trying to get just _|_> < 1310985710 750830 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want fix id < 1310985712 431122 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :id :: a -> a < 1310985714 932662 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix :: (a -> a) -> a < 1310985715 433308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1310985716 227357 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty fix id < 1310985716 871841 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, I'm being silly. < 1310985717 218622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1310985728 773397 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i was asking how exactly you're trying to be silly < 1310985739 376406 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Create ways to crash things. < 1310985743 93394 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1310985747 303479 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1310985789 737616 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't crash lambdabot :) < 1310985793 611323 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except by looking at it. < 1310985796 34588 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware. < 1310985796 452910 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1310985809 741169 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error "Not even this way?" < 1310985811 131762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Not even this way? < 1310985814 652887 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope! < 1310985815 234649 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1310985823 295237 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(heh obviously not) < 1310985826 772284 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be horrible otherwise) < 1310990419 506466 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310990427 13070 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again < 1310991245 31178 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310991913 426506 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My advisor was in Paris on Thursday, Indiana this weekend, and is now in Seattle. < 1310991920 211376 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote: "My body clock is ... missing" < 1310991975 181275 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, nice < 1310991979 826856 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not nice < 1310991983 221688 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you know < 1310992020 494092 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also my bank account." < 1310992074 211562 :asiekierka!2e0fa1c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.15.161.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1310992076 658732 :asiekierka!2e0fa1c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.15.161.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1310992090 398189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also my left kidney." < 1310992091 57554 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1310992105 135822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, FFS, tell me when you leave messages. < 1310992116 784728 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want me to leave a message when I leave messages? < 1310992131 990909 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember leaving any, those must be from at least yesterday. < 1310992159 812755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 hours ago. < 1310992168 510117 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's basically yesterday. < 1310992191 678141 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pretend you're in California < 1310992193 534877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that it was today, then yes. < 1310992874 68737 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rain looks nasty < 1310992987 104588 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I was about to say "oh, what a coincidence; it's raining here too" but then I... yeah. < 1310993027 813956 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still outstanded by that coincidence < 1310993035 849986 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereabouts in Hexham do you live? < 1310993049 683545 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO CHANCE < 1310993065 836496 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me an East or a West < 1310993081 336195 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMMM MMMM M MMMMF < 1310993096 210192 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fine < 1310993152 526842 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote you have become < 1310993156 159455 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :498) elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for! < 1310993331 624520 :asiekierka!2e0fa1c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.15.161.194 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1310993808 404253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone recommend a wireless router, quick. < 1310993886 760810 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Linksys. < 1310993906 950001 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Does it have to be a modem too? < 1310993911 345535 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1310993921 643027 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So you have a separate ADSL modem? < 1310993925 130949 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or cable or whatever. < 1310993928 20093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1310993939 698654 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/UK/en/products/WAP54G < 1310993945 220350 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For extra niceness run OpenWrt on it. < 1310993965 439772 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I technically haven't used that Linksys router, but I own one and let's face it, I've never heard a single person do anything but recommend it.) < 1310993986 626503 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But < 1310993987 182750 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC with 300MHz or Faster Processor < 1310993987 443359 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :128MB RAM Memory < 1310993987 641383 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet Explorer 5.0 or Netscape Navigator 6 or higher for Web-based Coniguration < 1310993987 641548 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD-ROM Drive < 1310993987 839574 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 2000 or XP (to use the Setup Wizard) < 1310993992 75958 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will need IE5. < 1310994001 378244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, really? < 1310994005 8585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, seriously? < 1310994016 681813 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. < 1310994030 311934 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you want to "conigure" it. < 1310994050 872978 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1310994055 145433 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pro webdesign < 1310994076 240744 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WAP (at least some hardware revisions of it) has significantly less flash than the WRT, so running OpenWRT on it (at least some models) is a bit painful. < 1310994077 75097 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why'd you want to know a good router anyway. < 1310994086 127936 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh does it? < 1310994094 836376 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh well, nothing really wrong with the Linksys firmware is there? < 1310994105 831491 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, unless you REALLY want to run a web server off your router. < 1310994110 567749 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, unless you want to do Fancy Tricks. < 1310994126 542706 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a better wireless router by Linksys? < 1310994128 634729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, because the current one sucks to the extent that I have been using the neighbours' network exclusively for a month. < 1310994134 279849 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, http://www.linksysbycisco.com/UK/en/products/WAP54G < 1310994136 93674 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed it entirely. < 1310994148 928230 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1310994155 193741 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does the WAP even have Ethernet ports? < 1310994163 305127 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has one. < 1310994163 542946 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, one. < 1310994166 749670 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an access point. < 1310994177 424990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much the main difference between the WRT and the WAP. < 1310994181 155927 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah OK get the WRT54GL or WAP54G if you can't. < 1310994190 832518 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Their site is badly organised :-P < 1310994196 425562 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The routers section looked wired-only to me < 1310994199 486377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, what's the signal strength like? < 1310994215 717993 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's... what does that even mean? < 1310994221 88010 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been following Linksys hardware in the recent years, so I don't know what are their current models. < 1310994224 149034 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good? < 1310994227 751909 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they're all black and shiny and round. < 1310994229 478720 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't trust 'em. < 1310994241 347907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, well, I'm on the opposite side of the house to where the modem is. < 1310994241 625743 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean it has DUAL ANTENNAE. < 1310994244 517375 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like an alien. < 1310994247 237063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And moving it would be a chore. < 1310994266 745435 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I doubt you'll find anything with an especially better signal strength without, I dunno, buying some kind of super-expensive corporate Cisco router. < 1310994269 626098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need a newer thing if you want 802.11n, though. Unless they have modernized versions of the 54G series. < 1310994272 383868 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie can tell me I'm full of shit if he wants. < 1310994282 120642 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: We don't have fast enough internet connections in the UK for n to matter :) < 1310994308 686707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you might want to hang some sort of NAS into a Ethernet port or something, I'unno. < 1310994311 767745 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRT54GL is 2005-vintage-ish, but. < 1310994320 424391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, hey, I theoretically have fibre optic broadband! < 1310994322 920920 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems there's a bunch of tangly spinoffs and the like. < 1310994332 95251 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The network projected by my WAP54G certainly has worked just fine through two non-load-bearing walls. < 1310994332 929249 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What speed do you get when plugged in via Ethernet? < 1310994349 819387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, perhaps I should have said 'ostensibly'. < 1310994359 711379 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That was a sincere question. < 1310994372 626802 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, I'm not actually sure. < 1310994379 898511 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just be really bad WiFi that's making it slow. < 1310994564 651451 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRT160NL seems to be the modernized version of WRT54G for OpenWRT purposes; at least it's on the list of supported hardware. In other ways it seems to have the standard-ish hardware configuration; one ethernet port for a modem/cable/whatever, a four-port ethernet switch for wiring things directly, and then the wireless. < 1310994584 209642 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes but. < 1310994586 9286 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's black and shiny. < 1310994589 899719 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You. Cannot. Trust. It. < 1310994593 500197 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's like ten quid more expensive. < 1310994594 355142 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any personal knowledge of post-{WAP,WRT}54G* models. < 1310994604 395225 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does look more evil, that's for sure. < 1310994615 389624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: What speed do you get when plugged in via Ethernet? < 1310994639 877689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot just plug the computer into the modem and get a connection, but I suspect this is my fault. < 1310994657 889079 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does your router not have ethernet ports? < 1310994671 14136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1310994686 196603 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I plug the ethernet cable from the modem into my computer, nothing happens. < 1310994693 697218 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1310994694 114394 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1310994694 313074 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1310994699 374856 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop confusing "router" and "modem", Phantom_Hoover. < 1310994719 530582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I confused 'router' and 'computer'. < 1310994725 61586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because they rhyme. < 1310994731 643428 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does your router not have ethernet ports? < 1310994749 821179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it doed. < 1310994752 698836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1310994755 42797 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Router? We hardly knew her!" < 1310994766 189238 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: then why are you plugging the ethernet into the modem. < 1310994786 561770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was because the router wasn't there or something. < 1310994810 743199 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a WRT120N < 1310994833 180428 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The WRT160NL has 40 units more of... stuff. Plus an L. < 1310994849 860997 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, recommend? < 1310994850 272834 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I have a WRT120N Gregor: The WRT160NL has 40 units more of... stuff. Plus an L. < 1310994851 667267 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :513) I have a WRT120N Gregor: The WRT160NL has 40 units more of... stuff. Plus an L. < 1310994857 598028 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's black and shiny. < 1310994864 524079 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pls to be trusting my superior judg- < 1310994865 357841 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 'snot bad. < 1310994866 562038 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is cheap. < 1310994873 68239 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'L' means it supports custom firmwares by the way. < 1310994880 906360 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supports as in actively supports. < 1310994883 917631 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/191548?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products < 1310994886 592914 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not hacktively supports) < 1310994888 564667 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Share and enjoy. < 1310994905 609800 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It also has over twenty more pounds :-P < 1310994926 805440 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, the 120N can't run OpenWRT. < 1310994932 539678 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but really. < 1310994943 499512 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not worth twenty pounds. :p < 1310994947 276205 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SHARE AND ENJOY < 1310994957 16356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL RIGHT OK < 1310994987 630687 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ONLY TWENTY-THREE QUID THAT'S A BLOODY BARGAIN < 1310994999 108676 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The native firmware is not bad at all, actually. < 1310995013 410583 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WITH CHEAPEST POSTAGE IT'S £27.16 < 1310995014 5143 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember using a ... WRT-wtf-some-old-shit and thinking "this firmware SUCKS I need DD-WRT" < 1310995019 202304 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the modern firmware is much better. < 1310995030 893671 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the Queen of France. < 1310995032 750790 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Any Linksys firmware would be godly coming from the ISP-supplied crap I'm using. < 1310995050 262746 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd-wrt always sets off my... marketing alarms. < 1310995064 433698 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are these people and why are they spending more time making a sleek website than coding. < 1310995074 91123 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: EXCUSE ME I JUST ADDED IT AND WORKED OUT THE CHEAPEST POSTAGE < 1310995076 448647 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SAVING YOU MONEY HERE < 1310995092 535356 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, there are these things called "stores" < 1310995096 239992 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go to them to buy things. < 1310995102 602261 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you have them immediately, no waiting for post. < 1310995110 717625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHERE I LIVE < 1310995117 334698 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Considering how much more expensive most of the sellers of those routers are... < 1310995131 511562 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm gonna say that buying it from the cheap, reputable online store is a better idea. < 1310995141 246372 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I DON'T BUT THE POSTAGE DIDN'T ASK FOR AN ADDRESS < 1310995146 433838 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> makeHash alphabet = fromList . zip $ (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] $ [0..] < 1310995147 553667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1310995153 393158 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> makeHash alphabet = fromList . zip $ (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] $ [0..] in makeHash "abc" < 1310995154 671268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1310995161 164451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let makeHash alphabet = fromList . zip $ (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] $ [0..] in makeHash "abc" < 1310995162 572877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[(a, GHC.Real.Rational)]' < 1310995162 770824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inf... < 1310995182 886600 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought my WRT120N for $40 last week. That's about �25 < 1310995195 901930 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Congratulations, you're in America where electronics are generally cheaper. < 1310995202 902431 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next on a series of really obvious things... < 1310995229 705039 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like you fail at being AMERICAN < 1310995234 862422 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul look at their accent < 1310995243 984219 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DON'T PRONOUNCE THEIR 'R'S < 1310995245 320526 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1310995277 187924 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that Brits don't pronounce our "R"'s is slightly unaccurate < 1310995286 75009 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We pronounce them when they begin a syllable < 1310995290 926779 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1310995298 60538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, that's inaccurate too. < 1310995298 258806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let makeHash alphabet = M.fromList . zip $ (`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..] $ [0..] in makeHash "abc" < 1310995299 470775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[(k, a)]' < 1310995299 692847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[b] ... < 1310995309 814253 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the local retailer sells this "cheap networking products" brand called "Netwjork". It sounds so incredibly reliable. < 1310995312 389823 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Also there are more accents in the British isles than in North America :P < 1310995314 458518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip < 1310995315 755535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] < 1310995328 787597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most English accents drop rs after vowels to a greater or lesser extent, yes. < 1310995343 124723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As do Welsh ones, IIRC. < 1310995363 82765 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a southern American accent < 1310995364 24598 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Netwjork WLAN router is 19.90 eur, so £17/$28. < 1310995364 605611 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scottish and Irish ones don't, with a very few exceptions. < 1310995366 382208 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the best of all. < 1310995386 809334 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Viking accents? < 1310995389 552774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually doesn't have much of an accent. He masks it pretty well usually.
< 1310995391 672753 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Netwjork from Bjork < 1310995400 949368 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes your net just wjork < 1310995403 887479 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dood. General American accent can kick all your butts. < 1310995412 984914 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's covert enough that other southern people do not hear my accent, but people from other regions will still notice it a little bit. < 1310995415 433619 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make people's ears bleed by talking to them. < 1310995440 545932 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, IT'S LIKE EAR SANDPAPER < 1310995446 867788 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The General Americam accent is stupid. Now, a Midwest accent: that's a good accent. < 1310995448 461732 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why the fuck is this code not working. < 1310995462 877151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs has the best accent ever. < 1310995464 205650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, Australian accents are pretty cool. < 1310995466 601170 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The Midwest accent is the prototype of the GA accent :P < 1310995467 758129 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :way better than vim < 1310995479 654409 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ARE YOU GOING TO BUY IT < 1310995481 585450 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, my western US accent is shifting into a midwest accent :( < 1310995481 783311 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: does GA have Canadian raising? < 1310995487 844052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, YES OK < 1310995492 286217 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No. Neither does the vast majority of the midwest. < 1310995497 352261 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1310995497 908678 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I agree tswett's native country's accent is sweet. < 1310995520 871248 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, a Hancock accent. :P < 1310995529 695313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let makeHash alphabet = M.fromList . zip ((`replicateM` alphabet) =<< [0..]) $ [0..] in makeHash "abc" < 1310995533 991340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1310995537 475055 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww... < 1310995549 837652 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my incredibly efficient hash function does not construct very quickly or something. < 1310995559 263116 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to being infinite in size. < 1310995595 289859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Map isn't lazy? < 1310995667 119402 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for Map < 1310995667 680279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, also cheapest shipping on that router is useless. < 1310995670 615784 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use < 1310995673 616579 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookup < 1310995674 331557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b < 1310995676 675603 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why. < 1310995678 995701 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're gone for a week anyway. < 1310995681 266044 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hancock is the United States' Finnish outpost. It has a teleporter that takes you to Porvoo, Finland. < 1310995692 628628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__, yes, so I don't exactly want it arriving to an empty house. < 1310995703 82110 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: not quite as efficient as the non-existence infinite Map. < 1310995706 600614 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes they will abandon it at the door so that ten people can steal it. < 1310995709 947923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the one that has to rebalance itself all of the time. < 1310995710 225592 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what will happen. < 1310995736 609096 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: would be kinda cool if it like constructed the tree on lookup, then like < 1310995737 390048 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cached it < 1310995742 315406 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Obviously, Porvoo has a teleporter that takes you back to Hancock.) < 1310995742 594917 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and morphed it next lookup < 1310995743 315644 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1310995748 22050 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes. < 1310995764 753826 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: is that even simple to do? < 1310995776 229844 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it makes no sense, so no. < 1310995796 873736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded pretty strange, but I wasn't sure... < 1310995835 628283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this coming from someone who is trying to implement a hash function as a Map. < 1310995865 855044 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Porvoo in particular? < 1310995920 180971 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I'm just trying to find as many uses as possible for the set-of-all-strings-in-an-alphabet thing. < 1310995928 932157 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the bishop of the porvoo diocese is pretty important in this conspiracy < 1310995934 782722 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash function is probably not one of them, I guess. < 1310996005 547817 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know; it wasn't my decision. < 1310996392 954163 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can assure you the teleporter definitely takes you to Porvoo. < 1310997222 805278 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we had a concrete metric for expressiveness < 1310997229 222102 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Haskell would rank pretty high. < 1310997419 884938 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess expressiveness has a lot to do with your available library. < 1310997477 165903 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :its generality or the conrete problems it solves. < 1310997571 636513 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can generate a powerset in Haskell as well as list all finite strings in an alphabet with two functions. < 1310997587 760223 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the standard library. < 1310998244 603704 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1310998377 874033 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1310998736 240048 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1310998917 960970 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311000470 850956 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311000471 307167 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 QUIT :Changing host < 1311000471 505639 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311001390 297629 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311001933 639566 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311001936 950268 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1311002440 525770 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1311002597 335799 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311002630 921361 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311003093 485092 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311003570 253356 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311005339 872400 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-68.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311005493 994091 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311005518 655646 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311005519 332778 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@17.45.135.66 QUIT :Changing host < 1311005519 531206 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311005861 641324 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311006446 568287 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311006508 428853 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1311007951 630063 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311008634 80740 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT : < 1311008672 269254 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311008684 504527 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :anafunctor < 1311009056 340573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311009062 2911 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311009090 230422 :anafunctor!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311009847 635028 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311009859 893183 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311009865 114284 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1311009872 350092 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deja vu face* < 1311009904 887521 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SD < 1311009979 773281 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311010335 136484 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311011040 723040 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311011385 663037 :asiekierka!59086816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.8.104.22 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311011509 90060 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311012207 64214 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they exist Knuth-style literate Haskell? < 1311012602 613708 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./esotope -v hello.sp < 1311012602 889521 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automatically guessed a kind "spoon" for the extension ".sp". < 1311012603 89616 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found a path with 4 processors (weight=25): stream --(10)--> spoon --(5)--> brainfuck --(9)--> interp-textio --(1)--> interp < 1311012605 678272 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1311012632 33367 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have to determine whether .bf belongs to Brainfuck or to Befunge... < 1311012709 107783 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use .b for Brainfuck so that .bf can be used for Befunge, it is what sometimes is used convention. < 1311012713 519298 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311012724 690646 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311012737 745524 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen .bf for brainfuck in the wild, so i wasn't quite sure about it. < 1311012781 585255 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is sometimes used. Although I believe the recommended convention is .b for brainfuck (which is also commonly used). < 1311012910 90809 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an idea for an esolang name: lingua abstrusa < 1311012995 580313 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and due to the obvious reason its preferred file extension would be a period followed by Unicode code point U+3164. < 1311013012 909315 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be declarative, if I understand declerative right. < 1311013013 107384 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :language names aren't as interesting as language ideas < 1311013058 215188 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Claudius patros Augusti est is equivalent to Augustus cliens Claudii est < 1311013094 673815 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People (the only data type) can have many clients but only one patron < 1311013142 993489 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :clauidus agricola est < 1311013172 116968 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each person has an occupation, e.g. agricola < 1311013193 859323 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupation is defined such as Claudius aricola est < 1311013205 482332 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are second declension < 1311013210 312912 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupations are first < 1311013220 9498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operations are based on occupation < 1311013325 173841 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupations can also be third declension < 1311013500 474126 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :agricolae res mercatori dare potest < 1311013529 949479 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mercatori res omnes dare potest < 1311013626 867015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : agricolae cibum facit < 1311013695 491706 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :artifices artes facit < 1311013763 903994 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :saceradotes I/O sunt < 1311013774 892519 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does this look so far? < 1311013948 413670 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone? < 1311014247 36588 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you like it < 1311014255 209088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more syntactic sugar < 1311014262 710015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs more syntax < 1311014325 578773 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1311014330 905861 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making a page on the wiki for it under my username < 1311014331 185095 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with that < 1311015078 867144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, suggest you look at Perligata. < 1311015099 282439 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also consider that esolangs built around syntax tend to suck. < 1311015508 279159 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfffft, that's just your opinion < 1311015524 807412 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to watch University Challenge now, bye < 1311015527 906067 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the point is to have unusual syntax... < 1311015581 301684 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes .bef is used for Befunge, since it's more unambiguous. < 1311015589 574949 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course .b93/.b98. < 1311015664 123404 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION invents a trivial alteration of Brainfuck called BeFuck. The only differences between BF and BeF are 1) that < and > are swapped for { and }, and 2) the file extension is .bef
< 1311015691 625971 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311015693 974971 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1311015787 139704 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a name like BeFuck, the only difference SHOULD be a terrible C++ API and fanatic devoted followers. < 1311015840 262247 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider me a devotee < 1311016012 941862 :hiato!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1311016013 180086 :hiato!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za QUIT :Client Quit < 1311017399 967427 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311017422 27350 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was the university challenge < 1311017428 150019 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good < 1311017433 808703 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clare college Cambridge won < 1311017434 507306 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1311017450 839564 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beat Winchester college Oxford 190-180 < 1311017461 227833 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311017565 52791 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ugh*. So, I found out that my drive needs 4k alignment, but doesn't report that. < 1311017585 498681 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a *royal* pain to change the start of an LVM PV. < 1311017600 543549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311017615 320367 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, "I'm probably going to have to start shuffling shit." < 1311017637 649194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shuffling shit is not very fun, i think < 1311017664 143749 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was one of the Twelve Tasks of Herakles < 1311017682 231308 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Shuffling my partitions so that I can have them start on 4k boundaries. < 1311017682 742912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed. so the moral is, use lots of water. < 1311017713 192353 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, for drives with 4k physical blocks, can double or triple IO performance. < 1311017749 47051 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for utterly *retarded* reasons, most drives report that they have 512 byte blocks. < 1311017765 952573 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, there is a scheme for reporting the drive's physical layout, but drives lie.) < 1311017791 183328 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they lie, if they told the truth the operating systems would just be so terribly confused by all the information < 1311017800 888976 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*And* sometimes the layout is offset. There is also a means of reporting *this*, but the drives lie about it too. < 1311017826 701273 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO CAN YOU TRUST < 1311017873 956315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION skips most of the logs today.
< 1311017915 812356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do they exist Knuth-style literate Haskell? < 1311017939 508352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by knuth-style? \begin{code}...\end{code} is one of the supported styles, anyhow < 1311017948 102869 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I think my drive is 512 *bytes* off, too. :/ < 1311017961 454970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311017965 931697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other being "> " bird marks) < 1311018001 490189 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so the first block is just 1/8th block? and then the rest of the disk is filled with n+7/8 blocks? < 1311018016 361057 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "Knuth-style" I mean things such as: Table of contents, index, named chunks (which can be included in others), pretty printing, print out (rather than HTML), etc. Partially also the input format, but mostly I refer to the output presentation and how they work in general. < 1311018022 488782 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. < 1311018038 682011 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's a workaround so that a partition spanning the entire disk will pretty much work. < 1311018057 756248 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what isn't the norm in Linux-land? < 1311018069 211755 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the 512 bytes is for an MBR, basically? < 1311018072 272951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh. i don't know. maybe some of that if you also use haddock. istr it does not support reordering things though (and haskell doesn't really need that) < 1311018072 469043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, I happen to prefer Plain TeX + DVI rather than using LaTeX + PDF, although this is mostly a matter of preference) < 1311018074 742838 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311018088 403008 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the traditional layout required 512 byte alignment. < 1311018093 496976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since most haskell declarations can appear in arbitrary order) < 1311018142 774529 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: However, note cross-references. Also named chunks might be useful in case of very complicated expressions or something like that maybe..... < 1311018146 758751 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I could easily move my LVM partition 512 *bytes* towards the start, I'd be set up right. < 1311018161 958586 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, that is nontrivial. < 1311018180 978334 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd can probably do that :> < 1311018193 825595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the haddock-generated html on hackage does have many interior cross-links < 1311018229 88520 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fish generate all my HTML. < 1311018233 700580 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, but that is HTML. Not printout format. < 1311018309 765035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes also haddock isn't tex/latex based < 1311018322 426466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then Knuth-style does prettyprinting. < 1311018363 942613 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1311018488 994746 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to get 58 MiB/s writing to my filesystem. < 1311018507 681321 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *raw* performance of my drive being ~114 MiB/s. < 1311019056 431924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stares at Taneb. like a cow.
< 1311019079 744080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COAP? < 1311019086 888410 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's based on real events < 1311019087 857255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course < 1311019098 367270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311019122 699561 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I walked through a field with cows in it, and the cows stared at me < 1311019144 285216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you suddenly woke up with a lot of dead cows around, i assume. < 1311019173 855567 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That is exactly what happened. < 1311019178 813579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so. < 1311019205 958071 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if this esolang I'm making will ever be turing-complete < 1311019234 756836 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, it's more of a farming sim < 1311019238 587528 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IN LATIN < 1311019276 362815 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Taneb/lingua_abstrusa < 1311019293 102137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :urbs agricolae < 1311019295 104346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: have you seen Lingua::Romana::Perligata? < 1311019309 49063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably a bit different from what you're doing, but it's awesome < 1311019324 457068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nihil novi sub soli < 1311019353 443264 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a Perl dialect < 1311019373 684479 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say just, but a lot of work probably went into it < 1311019481 376990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clings to the illusion that "soli" may be a legitimate variation there
< 1311019535 187109 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ave Damian Conway, facentes te salutant < 1311019551 303636 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lingas abstrusas facentes < 1311019561 85150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*linguas < 1311019566 742019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is facentes < 1311019573 953565 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They who make < 1311019583 846041 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From facio, facere < 1311019619 279322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok even i should have known that < 1311019638 145364 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lingua abstrusa is as close to esoteric language as I could be bothered to work out < 1311019657 142011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say < 1311020609 304092 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Bleh < 1311020678 250673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, you know that 'esoterica' is a Latin word, right? < 1311020690 964015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was Greek < 1311020707 54432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.latin-dictionary.org/esotericus < 1311020757 419592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION madly corrects Taneb's grammar
< 1311020769 423973 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311020784 88753 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you people talking about polish constitution < 1311020788 600755 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain yourself oerjan < 1311020799 6490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: wat < 1311020809 536334 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUh < 1311020846 25599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: feel free to undo if you thought that was too mad < 1311020865 476332 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihil_novi < 1311020899 228529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if, heaven forbid, i actually got something wrong < 1311020954 223079 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, clickady-clickadilidoo < 1311021032 798301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: shut up, you mere peasant < 1311021081 824097 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, i come from a royal family < 1311021113 985319 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I may be part Sri Lankan < 1311021119 621958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so you're a _royal_ pain in the ass? < 1311021124 516569 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And part Spanish < 1311021136 367296 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm definitely English and Dutch decent < 1311021169 677361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls his mother's family had some dutch nobility way back
< 1311021190 538807 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm peasantry as far as tracable < 1311021226 204739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tanebarajan < 1311021249 98427 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a friend who's grandfather was a peer < 1311021266 133445 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the house of Lords < 1311021278 859617 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yep! < 1311021283 519396 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That offers me some social standing, feudal system wise < 1311021288 59782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, norway abolished its aristocracy in 1814 < 1311021351 523670 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1311021363 661975 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :my family is older than any country i have lived in < 1311021366 678197 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cool is that < 1311021385 787320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so, Mr. Noah < 1311021436 910268 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 QUIT :Changing host < 1311021437 106982 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1311021446 185630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My family is Irish peasants as far as the eye can see. < 1311021450 765866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: lies.) < 1311021484 239540 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My family has bee traced back to the 26th of December 1613 < 1311021484 981723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my family is pretty much mostly norwegian fishermen afaik < 1311021494 637901 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Dutch guy < 1311021510 113448 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called Aris Jansz < 1311021519 808887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, ISTR that my family has been traced back to Rathlin, before which they were in Scotland which makes tracing it very hard. < 1311021656 767294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandmother was nessie < 1311021666 444050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely, oerjan, unlikely. < 1311021684 194078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT FITS SO WELL < 1311021702 792579 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nessie was in Loch Ness. Phantom_Hoover's family comes from the Hebrides < 1311021717 309325 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or as I like to call them, the Grooms < 1311021731 528739 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hebrides? < 1311021738 896271 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hebrides schmebrides < 1311021750 558050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously the people from the hebrides are hybrids, duh < 1311021766 531374 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Island group off the West Coast of Scotland < 1311021775 491938 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Taneb, I know that. < 1311021788 599229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you conclude that my family comes from there. < 1311021797 654351 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made it up for the sake of a joke < 1311021803 766590 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Do they? < 1311021808 89044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No./ < 1311021822 618841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how it works as a joke, though. < 1311021857 35428 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disprooving the nessie claim in a kinda stupid way < 1311021865 79593 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When there are more sensible ways to do it < 1311021882 568445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION spits out his drink after reëntering #jesus.
< 1311021886 933404 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I pointed out the spelling of the island group looks like he-brides < 1311021890 731667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : islam was not created by christianity < 1311021890 928544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it was created by fake christianity < 1311021890 928733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : called roman catholicism < 1311021914 640203 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What? < 1311021938 267529 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Islam, like Christianity, was created by a bunch of people doing what a Jew told them to do < 1311021960 839274 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere in the Middle East < 1311021981 828822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i'm not sure that is much more accurate than what Phantom_Hoover quoted < 1311022002 815039 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus and Mohammed were both Jews < 1311022007 623097 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Middle East < 1311022021 375306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall ever hearing that mohammed was a jew < 1311022044 156514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Mohammed wasn't. < 1311022051 184551 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP supports me. < 1311022134 538493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc muhammed was from a pagan tribe < 1311022146 326277 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, prove me wrong < 1311022170 268411 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, they both have Judaism as a major influence < 1311022368 984946 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, my ancestry has been traced back to the probably 16th century < 1311022377 40000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Muhammad’s denunciation of the Meccan traditional religion was especially offensive to his own tribe, the Quraysh, as they were the guardians of the Ka'aba." < 1311022396 994567 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parents of someone who got married in 1611 < 1311022471 302478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"About five generations before Muhammad the situation was changed by Qusai ibn Kilab. By war and diplomacy he assembled an alliance that delivered to him the keys of the Kaaba, an important pagan shrine which brought revenues to Mecca because of the multitude of pilgrims that it attracted." < 1311022515 26005 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, fine, I'm wrong < 1311022600 680283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does a small victory dance
< 1311022962 387334 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311023522 268744 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1311023545 168101 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311025180 533560 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-68.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311027518 499594 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311027628 424667 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311028447 466265 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311028526 394675 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Cookin' < 1311028594 743048 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311028602 17949 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1311028604 241210 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS < 1311028606 113883 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONNECTION < 1311028636 949782 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it fucked. < 1311028660 427669 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311029509 348443 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers it fucked
< 1311029612 497566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311029715 446609 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311029860 428354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1311030911 898250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1311030913 438277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311031744 924252 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311032263 786481 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311032263 786630 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311032263 786777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311032584 504046 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032584 701912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032598 947022 :comex!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311032605 892493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1311032614 408779 :comex!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032670 66100 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032687 948388 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311032775 450222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311032823 88878 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311033501 472224 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311033560 754702 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1311033583 581255 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311033951 663965 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311034053 396700 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311035713 809037 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311036394 514023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311036851 115934 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/w7cns.jpg This was the Yahoo! News pictures page. Today. < 1311036945 879837 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freakishly long eyelashes? FINALLY < 1311037139 201308 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311037166 570381 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311037539 332659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, seems... outdated < 1311037545 372487 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1311037559 839844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not all from the same time period either < 1311037565 396735 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people on the Internet younger than some of those pictures. < 1311037583 722652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, when is the Los Angeles freeway shutdown from < 1311037593 983270 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Present. < 1311037597 972368 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This weekend only. < 1311037612 758266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311038285 76720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears that francisco mota (User:FMota on our reddit) just started http://www.reddit.com/r/lambdapuzzles < 1311038379 605918 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/tmp/wol3-2011-07-18.ogg < 1311038395 447012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on our wiki < 1311038400 383694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1311038403 742580 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puzzles in Lambda calculus = possibly the best worst idea ever. < 1311038545 654245 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311038667 997087 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR IS IT < 1311038774 693127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear to have at least assimilated phantom_hoover < 1311038811 302382 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An insidious /r/, indeed < 1311038886 567343 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311038886 918291 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1311038887 116192 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1311040041 962242 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :Godwin < 1311040064 410470 :Godwin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311040201 569794 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311040656 539530 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311040958 872005 :augur!~augur@c-98-233-104-18.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311041604 739544 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311042595 590708 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229128088.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311043357 485282 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311045868 664715 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311045936 294976 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311046363 118791 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-20.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311046718 873327 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311048873 793950 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311049326 669772 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311049701 429270 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311049951 940270 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-20.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: work to do < 1311050009 734005 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311050047 939516 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :True Fact�: Most men feel inadequate if their hair is longer than their penis. < 1311050096 799931 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True Fact™: Most men with long hair have nothing to compensate for. < 1311050602 298062 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311052145 379257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hair is longer than my penis :( < 1311052176 526462 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least i can wrap it around my penis. < 1311052577 695635 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got new earbuds just yesterday (or the day before). The wire's already on the verge of breaking I think < 1311052676 864415 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs wireless headphones
< 1311053194 238329 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you gnaw on it or what < 1311053260 817417 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it keeps getting bent < 1311053383 377830 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I hate that when earbud wires bend. < 1311053558 704710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: It's just because your head is spinning all the time! < 1311053762 903203 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311053774 855449 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311054097 793711 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-169-11.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311054118 646345 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-153-216.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311055600 640902 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... if only they could invent flexible wires < 1311055809 214993 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a wire can conduct electricity then it has done it's job. asking for it to be flexible is overreaching. it is not in the nature of a wire to flex. < 1311055895 880956 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311055915 735223 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311056213 237526 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311056229 766214 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311057530 608992 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311057551 24040 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311057731 390597 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311057741 834746 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311060643 941624 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311061747 862156 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311061760 823183 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311062178 124821 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311062761 678225 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311062782 928664 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311062783 201532 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311062793 154820 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311063854 787771 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. < 1311063860 803646 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In regards of them helloes.) < 1311063861 776086 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 15 < 1311063877 965856 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've just gave me a different result < 1311063897 733577 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I don't see how that matters. < 1311063928 892567 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows that in this case, it wasn't necassarily insane to expect different results < 1311064008 910389 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the saying doesn't specify anything about whether you will or will not get different results. < 1311064018 904794 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311064021 685660 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311064032 619698 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that is the spirit of the sayin < 1311064034 133016 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1311064042 671830 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311064050 1293 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in spirits, sorry. < 1311064050 965620 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If different results are likely to occur, is it not insane to expect repitition? < 1311064152 374382 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what the saying's saying. (I seem to be doing the same thing over and over again here.) < 1311064197 102542 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as the people on the channel as well as the time changed between each "Hello", are they really the same thing? < 1311064236 756995 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ten seconds, with no join/parts in-between... I would classify those last two instances pretty much the same thing. < 1311064256 651174 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.245.90 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311064263 203672 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inbetween the last two, my client said augur had joined < 1311064270 387445 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa hello < 1311064314 786414 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As seen from here, it was the other way around. Anyway, I don't have a real point here, I just thought it'd be utterly pedestrian to just reply back with yet another "hello". < 1311064381 513558 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1311064963 182781 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.243.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311065067 583131 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1311065080 383199 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :TanebGone < 1311067084 21315 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311067195 222788 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the haps my friends. < 1311067288 316294 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hap, n.2: /north. dial./ A covering of any kind. 1724 A. Ramsay Tea-table Misc., Hap me with thy petticoat, Grant me for a hap that charming petticoat. < 1311067344 504057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so elliott__ presumably knows all about them. < 1311067469 429849 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also verbable. < 1311067471 301029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hap, v.2: Etymology: Derivation unknown. Its distribution from East Anglia and Lancashire to Scotland seems to point to Norse origin. [..] Now only Sc. and dial. [..] 2. To cover for warmth, as with extra clothing or bed-clothes; to wrap; to ‘tuck up’ (in bed). c1330 R. Mannyng Chron. Wace (Rolls) 9017, He gaf hym drynke poysoun, And happed hym warme, and bad hym slepe. < 1311067583 537791 :TanebGone!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb < 1311067740 673278 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anagrams < 1311067740 871204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah, PAH < 1311070101 842271 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. JFK's brother-in-law's uncle was PM of the UK < 1311070166 400318 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harold Macmillan < 1311070412 902886 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311071736 300858 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-153-216.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1311072583 214320 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311073415 116167 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a big sign I can add to a wiki article that says something to the effect of "This article needs a complete sort-out" < 1311074497 198911 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there was this "not up to standards" thing < 1311074505 45594 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "might need to be cleaned up" or something like that < 1311075513 304191 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2d23d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Router stuff < 1311075683 462761 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; comp.lang.c, someone had a (presumably) memory correction issue causing fread calls to segfault. His "fix": FILE *fp = fopen(...); FILE fback; memcpy(&fback, fp, sizeof(FILE)); /* ..code.. */ memcpy(fp, &fback, sizeof(FILE)); fread(...); -- "Now there is no segmentation fault, job done." < 1311075719 436830 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/correction/corruption/ < 1311077129 317894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ugh < 1311077237 198505 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311077280 953919 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In later posts it turned out to be Obama's fault that e had to "fix" it like that. < 1311077288 214995 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311077294 444068 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTQ? < 1311077388 645953 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1311077408 530184 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy guy on comp.lang.c fizzie's dealing with < 1311077458 392601 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. < 1311077482 848463 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311077536 966888 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311077626 250248 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311077783 925671 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonna have lunch now, bye < 1311078502 751858 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311078631 210212 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311078631 582196 :CakeProphet!~adam@h7.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311078631 782613 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311078710 193103 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311078959 841899 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 `floor . (+)` 4 < 1311078961 252846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `.' < 1311078978 696367 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a cool extension. < 1311078987 149474 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311079026 537843 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps slightly abusable, but... we're talking about a language that has an OverloadedStrings extension. < 1311079060 906472 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 `(+) `ap` floor` 4 < 1311079077 370100 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested `'s for... uh, great win? actually, just for demonstration. < 1311079110 520957 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> `pi` < 1311079111 697550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input ``' < 1311079130 876737 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1311079149 586698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so GHC is aware of types to some degree before it finished the parsing stage. < 1311079193 813626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, how so? < 1311079214 396441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it could also have a sophsticated error reporting system. < 1311079227 646078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nevermind. < 1311079232 96855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 `pi` 4 < 1311079233 416733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079236 192330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, as far as I can tell it bailed out because there is nothing in front of the ` < 1311079236 972869 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a regular parse error. < 1311079253 699292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t `pi` < 1311079254 828376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input ``' < 1311079257 829055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t pi < 1311079259 527186 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a < 1311079260 218686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311079270 569060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1311079285 172339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi 3 4 < 1311079286 508023 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079296 820297 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah I have no idea. < 1311079304 728524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1311079316 121190 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless (a -> b -> c) is an instance of Floating... < 1311079327 143176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, my guess is some weird result from partial evaluation... < 1311079348 950199 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just a lambdabot thing where it reads one full expression and ignores trailing fluff? Certainly "pi 3 4" is not okay in ghci. < 1311079363 484164 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or 3 `pi` 4.) < 1311079370 780124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1311079380 726295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi is stupid < 1311079382 108116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `is'Not in scope: `stupid' < 1311079387 617862 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi "werijsdiufhushdfwer < 1311079388 861033 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1311079389 163098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at end o... < 1311079390 856528 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi "werijsdiufhushdfwer" < 1311079392 127037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079397 209439 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311079402 991626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be what fizzie said < 1311079410 796875 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is coirrational a thing? < 1311079420 233217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let pi = 3 in show pi < 1311079421 645189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "3" < 1311079424 324558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311079447 678432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = pi 3 4 in x < 1311079449 77983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079456 864767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1311079458 402135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently works in nested expressions as well. < 1311079465 703259 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a general bug in the interpreter. < 1311079472 450956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311079480 984847 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi undefined < 1311079482 478351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079492 437478 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 8 3 9 4 in x < 1311079493 562642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8 < 1311079514 691490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5 in x[C < 1311079515 847506 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1311079523 810024 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only with constants perhaps < 1311079535 165688 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5 in x < 1311079536 542904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1311079539 613500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had a [C in there. < 1311079546 2069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1311079590 991842 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just blindly evaluates the expression as though it's correctly formed and disregards the leftover stuff? < 1311079593 912354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1311079607 908509 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it would produce a type error. < 1311079619 838673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5 in x [C < 1311079621 197598 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1311079622 910305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311079625 255341 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :expected type a -> b -> c inferred type (Floating a) => a < 1311079626 729191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1311079628 119374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5[C] in x < 1311079629 551845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `C' < 1311079634 964492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what < 1311079638 388269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 + 4 5[C in x < 1311079639 552924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311079639 753403 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1311079667 244373 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t f < 1311079668 513363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr a) => a < 1311079680 723226 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map pi [1..] < 1311079681 993389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3.141592653589793,3.141592653589793,3.141592653589793,3.141592653589793,3.... < 1311079692 871200 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it allows map f [1..] to work. < 1311079696 381724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fix f < 1311079703 197546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when technically f is not a function. < 1311079836 26824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix f < 1311079837 363032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1311079837 575593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1311079837 776266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1311079843 811731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fi < 1311079844 861246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix < 1311079845 143597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fi' < 1311079845 989557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a < 1311079848 249431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311079853 577911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix pi < 1311079854 939238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079861 493414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course) < 1311079865 226839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix pi < 1311079866 423369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a < 1311079870 965511 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi < 1311079871 954052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793 < 1311079879 149864 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "> pi" < 1311079880 129385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "> pi" < 1311079946 539706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix fix < 1311079947 917609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> a < 1311079950 746065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be very deep in the interpreter. < 1311079951 733532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1311079963 83612 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> putStrLin "pi" < 1311079964 44469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `putStrLin' < 1311079972 796986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, no IO < 1311079973 36651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> putStrLn "pi" < 1311079973 931086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311079978 722273 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1311079990 673596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can't evaluate IO < 1311079998 518939 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1311080012 736031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you saw, you just got an IO back < 1311080015 602194 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> readFile "/etc/passwd" < 1311080017 12176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311080060 288955 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (readFile <$>) < 1311080061 566244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f FilePath -> f (IO String) < 1311080068 237310 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 'x' < 1311080069 248501 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'x' < 1311080072 437551 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (readFile <$>) < 1311080073 777369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' < 1311080073 977517 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ty... < 1311080150 780824 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311080152 450500 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (readFile =<<) < 1311080153 692911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO FilePath -> IO String < 1311080165 297731 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (readFile =<<) < 1311080166 914796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311080194 177689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1311080258 705981 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought IO was strict. < 1311080541 598214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, only when evaulated, like in a do block or such < 1311080544 124303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1311080562 88744 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't everything "strict when evaluated"? :P < 1311080573 394809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, hm good point < 1311080589 378552 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids, don't try to evaluate your parents < 1311080599 364496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1311080653 65711 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t return < 1311080654 335670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => a -> m a < 1311080661 191035 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> a < 1311080662 178294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1311080662 378882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1311080662 378992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception mapException :: (Exception e1, Exception e2) => (e1 -> e2) -> a -> a < 1311080672 172532 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapException < 1311080673 756857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `mapException' < 1311080760 18060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> breakpoint 3 < 1311080761 332907 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `breakpoint' < 1311080783 630006 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t inline < 1311080784 774777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `inline' < 1311080786 965510 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311080812 563727 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts have some cool functions. < 1311080828 508553 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lazy, and inline. < 1311080947 623269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (`fromMaybe` Nothing) 3 < 1311080951 961030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311080956 685164 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (`fromMaybe` Just 5) 3 < 1311080958 476763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1311080992 705751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the laziness of one argument depends on another. < 1311081064 709413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (print 3 `par`) 4 < 1311081072 331208 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (print 3 `par`) < 1311081076 792257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311081167 536753 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :par is apparently not strict in the second argument < 1311081287 941923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t par < 1311081289 532348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b -> b < 1311081299 903991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I think types should have strictness info < 1311081301 628626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1311081345 29011 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible for explicit strictness anyways. < 1311081366 630352 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix pretty much tells you if it's strict or not < 1311081373 575883 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does passing an undefined. < 1311081469 660350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1311081487 735743 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :par is an interesting concept, I might try to use it sometime. < 1311081503 26902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in the regular expression language I'm working on < 1311081513 916441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the signal processing library that I've got on the backburner. < 1311081553 68687 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on large computations. < 1311081697 142446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another common use is to ensure any exceptions hidden within lazy fields of a data structure do not leak outside the scope of the exception handler, or to force evaluation of a data structure in one thread, before passing to another thread (preventing work moving to the wrong threads). < 1311081724 954593 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting. I would think that message passing among threads would send the data fully evaluated. < 1311081734 345159 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it apparently does not. < 1311081789 868454 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would make passing infinite data structures impossible < 1311081830 990901 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what history will make of the News International scandal that is going on at the moment < 1311081898 830907 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unaware of it. < 1311081907 438541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't error perform a side-effect? < 1311081956 225236 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's referentially transparent because it always returns bottom, but it still prints an error message while not being part of IO. < 1311082201 113684 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (%) < 1311082202 484481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> Ratio a < 1311082213 574242 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (3%) < 1311082214 918210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Integral t) => t -> Ratio t < 1311082452 505204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, heh < 1311082462 37380 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1311082500 853488 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What am I being hehed at for? < 1311082504 537569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, I think I can define a pulse wave as (/2) . signum < 1311082592 842939 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it won't allow me to vary the pulse width. < 1311082731 298108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, last previous line < 1311083198 41769 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay so signum is completely equivalent to a square wave. < 1311083215 946554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...when applied to a sinusoid, that is. < 1311083413 111070 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let boxcar a b x = fromEnum (a < x < b) in map (boxcar 2 10) [0..] < 1311083414 322076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1311083414 547731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix `GHC.Classes.<' [infix 4] and `GHC... < 1311083443 157112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let boxcar a b x = fromEnum (a < x && x < b) in map (boxcar 2 10) [0..] < 1311083444 523386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,... < 1311083507 933678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rect = boxcar (-0.5) 0.5 < 1311083606 538035 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually rect = boxcar (-0.5) 0.5 . sin < 1311083616 79881 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want the period form. < 1311084275 205941 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.137.241 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311084498 946924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, apparently C# has Perl's // operator < 1311084509 916395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ?? < 1311084638 646850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl calls it defined-or, while C# gives it the terrible name "Null coalescing operator" < 1311084662 144046 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, for some reason, the wikipedia page uses as its title. < 1311084731 894332 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, at least C# does something right. < 1311085242 179007 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just call it the "default operator" or something. < 1311085247 268897 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :More obvious than "defined-or" < 1311085254 32475 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... well... C#'s name for it. < 1311085384 344669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, given the way Perl's boolean operators work, defined-or makes sense. < 1311085396 953630 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :default-to? < 1311085405 812623 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you mean by "obvious" < 1311085507 615901 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's basically the same thing as Perl's or, except it applies defined() to the first argument for the purposes of testing to see if it's true. < 1311085517 820808 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to defined(x) : x : y < 1311085519 939746 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1311085560 377413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas or is: x ? x : y < 1311085634 930720 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311085681 138281 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyways, it's something Java needs badly. < 1311085695 877004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you spend far too much time testing for nulls. < 1311085814 263532 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be better if java didn't have nulls. < 1311085837 568122 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be terrible without a workaround. < 1311085854 99155 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, given some kind of option types. < 1311085877 401961 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# has type? which is short for Nullable < 1311085899 670213 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it uses to allow value-types (aka structs, int, bool, etc) to be assigned to null. < 1311085924 627500 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could change it so that the ? is required for all types to be nullable. < 1311085943 630580 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, C# nullable is far better than nothing < 1311085956 213376 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then what is an unitialized variable of type A? < 1311085976 489487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... ? is part of the sentence, not the type name :P < 1311085978 580993 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afaik Sing# (an extension to C#) has type! which always guarantees that type cannot contain null. < 1311086850 275453 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently this motto has been very much discussed in the Perl community, and eventually extended to There’s more than one way to do it, but sometimes consistency is not a bad thing either (TIMTOWTDIBSCINABTE, pronounced “Tim Toady Bicarbonate”). < 1311086858 856434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tempted to remove this sentence from Wikipedia. < 1311086920 931700 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :citation needed! < 1311086980 794530 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one < 1311086990 81656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really think it's notable. < 1311086996 106525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that's such a terrible acronym. < 1311087008 314892 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slogan. Why would anyone ever say that. < 1311087039 128475 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there should not be the word "but" because these statements are not in contradiction with one another. < 1311087090 234065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is in fact what the word 'but' is there for. < 1311087118 252514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To clarify that some secondary statement that could be concluded from the first is not, in fact, true. < 1311087264 316979 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311087666 288216 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Perl 6 article: Also, the , (comma) operator is now a list constructor, so enclosing parentheses are no longer required around lists. < 1311087675 210894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure that was always the case. < 1311087689 672286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the enclosing parentheses were required due to precedence. < 1311088148 416174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As a Rubyist it seems a bit controversial to me, as this looks like a multiple inheritance scheme..." < 1311088164 254647 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it sounds like he's talking about his religion. < 1311088172 314889 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should never read Wikipedia talk pages in my free time. < 1311088185 191794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He *is* talking about his religion. < 1311088280 732873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds crazy to me, it's totally consistent with the Perl attitude towards authority. < 1311088286 392814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a Perl attitude towards authority? < 1311088307 425525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are these people even talking about. Do they realize they are talking about programming languages? < 1311088423 300500 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311088441 741988 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not know that programming languages had states of mind associated with them. I was pretty sure they were a means to describe the solution to a problem. < 1311088491 351621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Perl code have some kind of anti-establishment connotation that I haven't been picking up on this entire time I've been writing it? < 1311088494 444927 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is stupid. < 1311088499 824568 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never read talk pages again. < 1311088628 375868 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311092007 482822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311092839 255310 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311093072 493923 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an integer division operator in Haskell> < 1311093112 857086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t div < 1311093114 526503 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1311093117 39351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311093150 108373 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1311093742 965848 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t quot < 1311093745 138065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1311093748 497551 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mod < 1311093749 362810 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t rem < 1311093749 779680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1311093750 484746 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1311093754 832027 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg < 1311093766 490018 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t [divMod, quotRem] < 1311093767 270811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => [a -> a -> (a, a)] < 1311093776 249518 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t [div, mod, quot, rem] < 1311093777 410259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => [a -> a -> a] < 1311094048 510079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott__: could you talk me out of something? < 1311094055 261686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 7 `quot` 3 < 1311094056 651206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1311094058 509679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about creating an esolang that was completely identical to another esolang < 1311094070 832823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, quot/div and mod/rem only differ when negative numbers are involved. < 1311094074 681697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a parody of bad BF derivatives < 1311094075 663177 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, expand. < 1311094080 580637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's OK. < 1311094090 139766 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean like I hate your brainfuck derivative I really do? < 1311094090 890279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps just create an esolang that's identical to brainfuck < 1311094095 839797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am the official Sanctioner of Esolangs. I say so.) < 1311094096 926498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's already been done? < 1311094123 733089 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/I_hate_your_bf-derivative_really_I_do < 1311094124 672803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I meant with + being increase, - being decrease, etc < 1311094128 38061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly the same as BF < 1311094143 918653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically Ihybrid. < 1311094150 876128 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1311094155 61231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally identical? < 1311094160 136425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve. < 1311094188 615099 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Ihybrid is a crappy serious esolang. < 1311094191 43879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of calling it Brainfuck < 1311094194 980973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a capital B < 1311094205 133398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that name isn't currently taken < 1311094232 561739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe even BrainFuck < 1311094292 223818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I stopped watching that Murdoch hearing because it was boring. < 1311094305 424738 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then someone attacked Rupert Murdoch with a cream pie. < 1311094314 443207 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1311094395 415875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed it too, I got here a few seconds after it happens < 1311094398 215222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then missed the replay as well < 1311094403 561142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no doubt it'll be all over the Internet by now < 1311094411 711827 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14209268 < 1311094427 581634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/#!/JonnieMarbles < 1311094429 91527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worth wondering how the assailant managed to break into the House of Commons in the first place < 1311094442 392123 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he got in the easy way < 1311094447 424888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much as I disapprove of it, I can't fault his Twitter style. < 1311094451 180337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also, I can tell that that link's broken without even reading it < 1311094456 845121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that anchor doesn't exist on the Twitter homepage < 1311094471 201721 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1311094489 121234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I... copied and pasted it. < 1311094502 481239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Twitter themselves use broken links < 1311094510 412331 :comex_!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311094513 533506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they do is, all links to Twitter actually go to the homepage, then it AJAXes the actual content < 1311094519 518875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good for you. Noöne cares. < 1311094531 744320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people without JS in their primary browser care < 1311094560 965906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tiny minority, yes. < 1311094597 863231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tiny minority who seem to take great pride in disabling browser functionality and telling everyone loudly that they have done so, yes. < 1311094659 35606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a negative functionality, in that it makes websites more annoying < 1311094666 250764 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the internet without js is like using a car without tyres < 1311094686 195394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: the worst I saw was a page that tried to set cookies when you move your mouse < 1311094691 343102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because I prompt on those < 1311094704 847002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some pretty stupid things done even with default browser settings < 1311094708 307278 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop browsing midget porn < 1311094725 125991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily enough, most of us get by fine without them. < 1311094743 79851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to turn off JS, don't bring it up when we send you links that need JS to work. < 1311094754 842387 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be true, Phantom_Hoover, but personally i couldn't bear a life without those wonderful little humans < 1311094758 639925 :comex!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311094758 640016 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311094760 477675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, s/send you/give/ < 1311094834 164815 :Kariya-jin!~user@41-139-181-238.safaricombusiness.co.ke JOIN :#esoteric < 1311094852 74150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, what Twitter does with the #! thing breaks standard browser functionality too < 1311094867 532852 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, funnily enough, it works for most people. < 1311094873 3526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's got middle-click working yet; most sites that do #! stuff don't work with that < 1311094890 912622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't like the page to have to load twice every time I visit it < 1311094902 357897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for you. Keep it to yourself. < 1311095117 728375 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.221.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311095548 382164 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :TanebAway < 1311096339 174113 :Kariya-jin!~user@41-139-181-238.safaricombusiness.co.ke PART :#esoteric < 1311097596 27692 :TanebAway!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb < 1311097684 487852 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ill < 1311098041 861715 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311098061 247107 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311098437 219605 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? C/Intercal: I, lilac, ret niche. < 1311098476 258287 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work as well when half the palindrome is gibberish :) < 1311098485 832668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311098489 23915 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are all real words! < 1311098504 688159 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it's nonsense < 1311098649 204656 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap (++) reverse "But yeah, it's nonsense" < 1311098651 590258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "But yeah, it's nonsenseesnesnon s'ti ,haey tuB" < 1311098658 611641 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can palindrome too :D < 1311098740 298117 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pal, Fractran art? Car flap. < 1311099227 93141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311099327 578816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311099420 520062 :elliott__!~elliott@95.149.243.18 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311099480 764954 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311100253 793687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oi. < 1311100377 207769 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311100402 200506 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311100496 323924 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working on my Numberwang Hello World < 1311100745 558502 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on something delightfully retarded. < 1311100762 378937 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Numberwang Hello World? < 1311100770 226307 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Christmas present? < 1311100786 49650 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A polititian? < 1311100798 428927 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those multi-dimensional numbers I was talking about the other day < 1311100803 681363 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that was a deliberate typo. < 1311100812 384086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, define "multi-dimensional". < 1311100824 119215 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :consisting of more than one dimension < 1311100847 882366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean like the complex numbers? < 1311100853 739616 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Vectors? < 1311100892 551809 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well what I realized was that all the named numbers are one dimensional: one,two,three,four,five,six,seven,eight,nine,ten, etc < 1311100901 489893 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean complexes. < 1311100903 609716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or vectors. < 1311100913 666679 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I remember! < 1311100914 917762 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :more towards the vectors idea < 1311100922 9484 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving names to vectors! < 1311100924 403354 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im too stupid to do anything with complex numbers < 1311100926 824056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complexes == vectors. < 1311100930 475277 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, lala = (7,3) < 1311100936 96947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just with a different definition of *. < 1311100945 630050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, complexes == 2-vectors. < 1311100955 355576 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the most mathematically-challenged here < 1311100992 663005 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.. 2 is enough < 1311101014 175174 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than 2 would be making life difficult on myself. < 1311101053 640010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, [a, b] + [c, d] = [a+c, b+d]; [a, b] * [c, d] = [a*c - b*d, a*d + b*c]. < 1311101059 612919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all there is to complexes. < 1311101077 356770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is just a consequence. < 1311101099 989508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, I've almost certainly missed something fairly minor, but those are the important bits.) < 1311101260 481144 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Numberwang Hello World works perfectly... for three operations < 1311101561 841198 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is sort of what i'm doing: http://hpaste.org/49235 < 1311101564 492735 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, presumably you're trying to nullify the effect of the Numberwang operator? < 1311101575 504107 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bit's fine < 1311101585 835321 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311101596 733057 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan worked out the safest way to do that < 1311101610 276008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it, out of curiosity? < 1311101642 238507 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the step counter mod 9 is 0 < 1311101659 871498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't call any additional numberwangs, and doesn't use gotos < 1311101677 876143 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so you just pad. < 1311101688 956337 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1311101708 4056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, why do you seem to have two contradictory definitions of +? < 1311101732 225085 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im exploring what it means to add two of those things together < 1311101769 405492 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, apparently when I have a cold, I love Kaiser Cheifs < 1311101822 472984 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when i started doing this the theory was that you could have a unique word for a horizontal 2 instead of a vertical 2 < 1311101841 634573 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, uh.. that is.. when i started actually mapping it out < 1311101865 991347 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first idea was to give a unique written name to things of the form [x][y] instead of just [x] < 1311101930 168785 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and next i realized that gave a width x height result < 1311101971 343200 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then later I started to realize you start ending up with non-rectangular objects more like bargraphs < 1311101996 808180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like you're going to end up with arbitrary shapes. < 1311102015 254343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, they have to be connected. < 1311102046 343684 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1311102062 981959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this kind of crap doesn't have to mean much for me < 1311102075 909203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not quite arbitrary. < 1311102087 393934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are conditions, but they're not terribly interesting ones. < 1311102089 178572 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres probably some unspoken hypothesis i'm working towards < 1311102132 958527 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need someone who's brilliant at maths but has not yet learnt the limits of the possible < 1311102153 427828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learnt the limits of the possible, then I forgot what they were. < 1311102165 103699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not terribly interesting, and they're generally there for a reason < 1311102223 642856 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should discriminate between rectangular and non-rectangular shapes < 1311102250 755210 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in seriousness, mathematicians have tried most generalisations you can think of. < 1311102307 320023 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is numberwang now stable? < 1311102309 447563 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The addition and multiplication rules you gave are also just consequences of the single i^2 = -1 after you write them as (a+bi). < 1311102313 163649 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course they have. Generalisation is an easy way to do interesting mathematics. < 1311102315 814474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, sure. < 1311102332 984523 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciate the power of generalization :> < 1311102339 843311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah, and generally the ones that haven't been tried aren't very interesting. < 1311102344 339538 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe i don't < 1311102366 844109 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Numbrewang is theortically sable < 1311102383 125399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, you can extrapolate relativistic (?) physics to more than 1 time dimension, but the equations cease to be solvable. < 1311102441 962208 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am into game design in a big way. But theres lots of things I encounter which make game-dev seem boring. < 1311102460 387592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, like display programming... < 1311102465 259361 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311102476 181634 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hmm, is there any significance of the step number? the specification does not mention the use of it. < 1311102484 941132 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does... < 1311102486 203502 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of display there is that disparity between internal logic and representation of that logic < 1311102517 241961 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At each step, the digital root of the sum of the current command, its position in the program, and *the step number* is calculated. The result modulo four is taken, and the appropriate instruction is ran < 1311102521 42269 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the graphics and sounds in a game can just be swapped around meaninglessly. Just like you can replace the pieces on a chessboard. < 1311102528 724402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of display there is the fact that it's annoyingly fiddly to set up. < 1311102558 626837 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you two should team up and make a games console? < 1311102587 517539 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bob of Bob's Game is trying to make something called the nD < 1311102590 45126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware design? Ahahahahahahahahahaha. < 1311102592 989644 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahahahahahaha. < 1311102597 483191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. Ha. Ha. < 1311102598 411061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311102617 835647 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a bit crazy though < 1311102651 104366 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on < 1311102660 395311 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ugh, so at the each step digital-root(command) is added to the step number, right? < 1311102661 925071 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when was Beyonce the world's number one superstar? < 1311102666 513839 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not really interested in hardware < 1311102696 830792 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to implement numberwang in my esotope and stucked at that part. < 1311102710 72860 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: No, the command, the step number, and the index of the command are added up, and the digital root of that (mod 4) is the actual command < 1311102717 873872 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so with games, I don't like the idea of a game's design imposing the limits of perfect play. < 1311102758 354336 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see games where there is no such thing as perfect play. < 1311102769 789544 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarf Fortress? < 1311102814 331116 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more discerte a game becomes it seems the more likely that a perfect play scenario exists < 1311102820 679051 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^discrete < 1311102822 675092 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is that something like this: for(step=idx=0; idx The more discerte a game becomes it seems the more likely that a perfect play scenario exists < 1311102870 909250 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no? < 1311102879 240111 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go for it, lifthrasiir < 1311102895 947789 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry someones stomping in the hall.. i can't hear myself think < 1311102926 747946 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-discrete games tend to accumulate errors, while discrete ones don't, so they are less obviously deterministic. < 1311102933 24051 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, itidus, you want a sandbox? < 1311102973 716591 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in a sandbox game < 1311102974 418971 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want a person to ever be able to get closure in a game, that they are the best that is possible < 1311102992 294796 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ah, one more question: eight commands in the instruction 3 do not affect the step number, right? < 1311102999 831578 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that < 1311103001 685199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, suggest Minecr— wait, that's too open-ended for you, probably. < 1311103004 535715 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do, lifthrasiir < 1311103020 114398 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok forget the discrete comment.. that was just being dumb of me as usal < 1311103040 626515 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want people to even be able to imagine being perfect at the game < 1311103041 857610 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, then the step number increases by 8 after the instruction 3? < 1311103062 101370 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It increments after every instruction, including the 3 and the ones in the 3 < 1311103077 817567 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in the case of Chess and Go, although they can't compute perfect play, they can imagine it with sufficient computing power. < 1311103080 113295 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact, 8 + alpha, right. < 1311103087 78915 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1311103128 924069 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And although the sufficient computing power is supposed to not exist, they can still imagine it existing < 1311103140 931511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Like in the case of Chess and Go, although they can't compute perfect play, they can imagine it with sufficient computing power. < 1311103157 140252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that in Go computers are barely able to compete. < 1311103186 72540 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But theoretically, there are only a finite number of possible games of Go < 1311103206 7645 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans are clearly better at playing go than devising computers to play go :D < 1311103208 914878 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yes, it's just got significantly search space than chess. < 1311103217 136934 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, significantly greater. < 1311103228 613415 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ugh, wait, then what about the command's position in the program? < 1311103260 430365 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's been a while since I played Go < 1311103269 941695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search space is, of course, what makes AIs a lot less reliable in continuous than discrete games. < 1311103277 278075 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say the command at the position 42 invoked the instruction 3. now what are the positions of 12! and consequent commands? < 1311103285 930633 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess AI has turned out to be *much* less interesting than people would've liked. < 1311103297 59328 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 through 7, I think < 1311103299 565659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although perfect play is clearly possible in, say, missile defence. < 1311103311 46705 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of being something that'll produce an intelligent, thinking computer, it's created a very fast, stupid computer with well-designed heuristics. < 1311103313 504213 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was done last year in Draughts < 1311103335 133153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was done in draughts quite some time before that. < 1311103348 9545 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Perfect play is *possible* in most games. < 1311103348 413867 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom: do you mean that a computer using the neural network approach to solving chess will fail just as badly? < 1311103354 426518 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just ridiculously unfeasible. :) < 1311103362 284111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, OK, easy. < 1311103366 524384 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, neural... what? < 1311103408 11255 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, surely they have tried applying artificial neural nets towards emulating the mind of a chess grand master to the extent such things are possible < 1311103414 265107 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahahahaha. < 1311103416 4247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311103418 557386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They haven't. < 1311103422 407246 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1311103427 127218 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311103429 20149 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too expensive < 1311103433 589063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not enough point < 1311103434 650911 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311103436 897225 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I should stop the ahahahahahahaha thing, it's probably ridiculously annoying. < 1311103449 239184 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When they can already defeat Gary Karsparov or whoever < 1311103463 211580 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: so they don't "really" want to solve it :D < 1311103485 555157 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, because the stupid algorithms are already better than they need < 1311103499 982798 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a toy to promote IBM etc :P < 1311103517 158662 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am wondering if such things would actually make any difference you see < 1311103525 583881 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points itidus20 towards http://arimaa.com/arimaa/
< 1311103543 48121 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is chess just as unsolvable with ANN as without < 1311103570 735257 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To solve chess would require a computer larger than the observable universe < 1311103585 81895 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard that < 1311103594 309036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott__: could you talk me out of something? < 1311103594 795742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1311103595 459591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok < 1311103601 828712 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well.. < 1311103618 364568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you logreading, or do you want me to repeat context? < 1311103627 527894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice < 1311103629 155499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter that is < 1311103641 516930 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: but that would imply no breakthroughs probably < 1311103649 666565 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :breakthroughs are always unanticipated. < 1311103655 387750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, it was designing an esolang identical to an existing esolang < 1311103662 549268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as BF with none of the commands changed < 1311103671 397118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of calling it Brainfuck, as that name isn't currently taken < 1311103676 110084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not even syntactically? < 1311103676 309149 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good statement though about the universe < 1311103680 747099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope < 1311103691 290378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i approve wholeheartedly < 1311103707 338967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311103710 142879 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311103779 846544 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: thanks. nice link. < 1311103789 465689 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1311103836 621234 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so, gaming can be about improvement, and being the best. trouble here is that best is relative. < 1311103857 492861 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you be the best by keeping everyone else down and you're still the best < 1311103857 747113 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311103861 514495 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :514) It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311103865 48631 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: in order to get out of the instruction 3, all generated commands have to be executed or the instruction 2 has to be invoked. am i missing anything? < 1311103877 388070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, when'd he say that? < 1311103881 374699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was funny? < 1311103887 840321 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the 2 keeps it in the 3 < 1311103895 262057 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2s don't escape 3s < 1311103901 307885 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:40 tunes time < 1311103911 622143 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, < 1311103915 663435 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which corresponds to no timezone known to mankind) < 1311103935 579630 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311103945 674346 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: if the instruction 3 invoked the instruction 3 in the middle, then commands have to be terminated twice (or possibly more)? < 1311103948 521019 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait, you want context now? < 1311103966 752749 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: yes < 1311103968 651489 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 514 < 1311103969 983834 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1311103981 91416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that was moderately funny on its own. < 1311103988 65632 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, right now i tried to categorize the behavior of the instruction 3 for possible step numbers. < 1311104025 539927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it was funny :P < 1311104044 780516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311104045 913483 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :514) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. < 1311104050 296376 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: better? < 1311104195 965211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was better originally :-P < 1311104196 319740 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :draws are not possible in arimaa eh < 1311104202 806102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I note that the [...]s are unneeded there < 1311104203 6806 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1311104208 769392 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats always good < 1311104209 695573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to cut it out when time passing matters < 1311104222 478691 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it's just that both people said things in between < 1311104240 552480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1311104245 437982 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no first move advantage and no draws? how can it be so. :o < 1311104261 602639 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-222-115.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311104267 506245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, note that it is patented. < 1311104273 957076 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311104280 630245 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-235-34.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311104284 207935 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents < 1311104343 384767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i love the software license < 1311104345 687199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so stupid < 1311104373 998606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is it, again? < 1311104378 12821 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not looking to make boardgames though. I am focused on the abstract word game. < 1311104386 869106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i forget exactly < 1311104403 587830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here it is: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/license/ < 1311104536 900503 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it is solvable I don't know how "no first move advantage and no draws" could be possible < 1311104547 842156 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what intruiges me < 1311104567 437649 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. < Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311104568 835620 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :515) Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. < Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311104572 531296 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311104574 851540 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 515 < 1311104576 194224 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1311104585 399683 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311104586 640048 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :515) Taneb: See, it's Obama's fault the guy's apartment is now worth less than their mortgage and something something something that translates to not being able to look for a proper fix. Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon < 1311104602 510105 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"End game tables are not useful since games can end with all pieces on the board. " < 1311104610 134716 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm fascinating < 1311104645 977528 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it could have a _second_ move advantage, you know :P < 1311104665 117855 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311104671 491394 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thinking < 1311104678 533499 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like those game variations where the second player is allowed to switch places on eir first move < 1311104688 376397 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Project which are non-commercial require obtaining a written authorization." < 1311104705 582227 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this licence is ridiculous. < 1311104716 274315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03:07: With a name like BeFuck, the only difference SHOULD be a terrible C++ API and fanatic devoted followers. < 1311104722 415491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Was BeOS's API that bad? < 1311104731 70383 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was C++, that's all I know :P < 1311104732 782025 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't intend to make an arimaa.. simply to steal a few of their concepts for use in realtime arcade games < 1311104735 494451 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But C++ pretty much implies terrible. < 1311104758 397030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:40:16: By "Knuth-style" I mean things such as: Table of contents, index, named chunks (which can be included in others), pretty printing, print out (rather than HTML), etc. Partially also the input format, but mostly I refer to the output presentation and how they work in general. < 1311104758 596422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:41:12: zzo38: oh. i don't know. maybe some of that if you also use haddock. istr it does not support reordering things though (and haskell doesn't really need that) < 1311104772 683741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What oerjan said; Haskell doesn't need the crutches that other languages do to support literate programming < 1311104822 972496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:06:06: what is facentes < 1311104827 51813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's what you poop, HTH < 1311104838 991721 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THANKS < 1311104866 747599 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok uh.. suppose you compare the idea of a puzzle in an adventure game to that of solving a boardgame. well an arimaa-like puzzle might be less frustrating < 1311104884 921259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote That offers me some social standing, feudal system wise < 1311104886 242115 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :516) That offers me some social standing, feudal system wise < 1311104894 770694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, have you looked at Minecraft, actually? < 1311104906 791016 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to buy it but i'm broke < 1311104917 200180 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to buy it, so I did. < 1311104928 687669 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i might bore of it also < 1311104931 367549 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I don't need to pay for a school trip to Rome < 1311104952 874358 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is good news, that has came about from bad news < 1311105001 875506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, it is quite simple to pirate. < 1311105006 499870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:54:11: http://i.imgur.com/w7cns.jpg This was the Yahoo! News pictures page. Today. < 1311105007 131949 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also i assume knuth's literate programming was originally for pascal, which has stupidly stringent ordering requirements (admittedly to get trivial one-pass compilation) < 1311105009 168855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANOTHER ONE?!!!!?! < 1311105011 927550 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1311105013 935706 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wirth's < 1311105016 263585 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shees < 1311105017 788748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1311105026 708979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um wirth invented literate programming? < 1311105029 435611 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311105038 766669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, knuth did < 1311105041 790093 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er wait i'm confusing myself < 1311105045 673031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311105049 766453 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is there anyplace I can see a list of all the hackego quotes < 1311105067 455404 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _thought_ wirth, my subconscious must have corrected it, and this time it was right :P < 1311105091 284791 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambiguity of ***th < 1311105102 428704 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my regex skills aren't up to speed though < 1311105118 521140 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a-z){3}th < 1311105122 366845 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that I got confused because I couldn;t think of a swear word with that pattern? < 1311105125 843206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcal: [a-z] < 1311105128 339352 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...th < 1311105138 188993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, is there anyplace I can see a list of all the hackego quotes < 1311105141 795282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes < 1311105143 133308 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32205 < 1311105148 898454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an immutable snapshot < 1311105149 919639 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a-z]{3}th < 1311105150 705621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also go to < 1311105151 631525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url quotes < 1311105152 991566 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes < 1311105153 825131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that lacks quote numbers < 1311105157 609925 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handy < 1311105167 797087 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: nah it's just that my mind graph has a pascal -> wirth edge, and i knew (knuth's) WEB was in pascal, so somehow the wires got crossed < 1311105176 16500 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311105191 964217 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pascal reinforced the confusion < 1311105195 699217 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311105217 879506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the wire crossing problem? < 1311105290 992344 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oerjan confusion problem? < 1311105306 488476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: whoosh < 1311105323 476886 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that there is value in languages which have hollow meaningless keywords < 1311105334 86546 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like English. < 1311105415 971315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also all languages < 1311105432 244660 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a human probably can't design a program in hex < 1311105437 557949 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the English Language Turing-Complete? < 1311105446 781576 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they can implement it in hex but i doubt they can design it in hex < 1311105493 457534 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. is a human body turing complete :> < 1311105496 896210 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i'd say it's either obviously turing-complete, or too vague to be used for computation... < 1311105507 366845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: obviously not < 1311105509 310002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have only finite memory < 1311105515 994780 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, allowing for imperatives, yes. < 1311105519 427796 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1311105528 282909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why do you need imperatives? < 1311105541 927287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A list starting with 9 and followed by itself, with each element incremented by one." < 1311105550 284649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's map succ (repeat 9) < 1311105554 709090 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye olde declarative english < 1311105569 14924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, but imperatives are the most direct way to do it. < 1311105629 935031 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-189-129.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311105630 712355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Only if you consider imperative languages more obvious than functional ones < 1311105663 440235 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think enough thought is given to how humans percieve a language(in common programming) so much as how the language compiles < 1311105693 48088 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling back on a basic set of keywords to do everything < 1311105702 504440 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can never escape the friggen keywords < 1311105717 702328 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protip: if you think you have some Big New Idea and you're not an expert, it's probably been done. < 1311105728 494703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no keywords in Scheme < 1311105741 828179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless you consider the special forms keywords. < 1311105747 58839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can rebind them < 1311105748 833240 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit english has words like "is" < 1311105752 304769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let ((lambda 9)) lambda) => 9 < 1311105758 441713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're not keywords by any stretch of the imagination < 1311105775 587886 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you","I","is" etc.. could be english keywords < 1311105785 722263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let ((lambda (lambda (x y) y)) (x (lambda () 9))) (lambda (x) x)) => < 1311105791 27566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that function being x) < 1311105802 101399 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-222-115.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311105823 310862 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the english words tend to be controlled by general grammars.. such that "you" and "I" are pronouns. < 1311105846 690118 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, uh.. humm < 1311105986 362459 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: basically afaik there have been attempts to make programming languages looking like english and they've all been crap < 1311106020 730469 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL and Applescript are the two i know about < 1311106073 300907 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :on thinking about it, by separating reserved words from created words you often know whether an identifier is safe to use < 1311106091 367238 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a mess if you had to consult a dictionary each time you thought up an identifier < 1311106113 740688 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the implementation was written by someone with a different dictionary... < 1311106129 443799 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, the complete OED that costs £750 and can kill people < 1311106136 547439 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh i don't mean english as such < 1311106139 536231 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just words < 1311106146 401617 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, do you want the OED? < 1311106153 403138 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its easily obtainable now :P < 1311106162 136691 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In hardback? < 1311106165 515977 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311106182 656417 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i don't think you can kill people with a digital version. well maybe. < 1311106240 615091 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently when they released the sofrware one.. they used something called securom... and apparently if you replace that file with one called swhx its freely usable < 1311106258 198734 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not legally of course < 1311106304 473006 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so theres torrents out there demonstrating this < 1311106316 718778 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all very odd < 1311106591 262875 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311106689 894422 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe it's just a lambdabot thing where it reads one full expression and ignores trailing fluff? Certainly "pi 3 4" is not okay in ghci. < 1311106690 717611 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-189-129.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311106698 201286 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there is an actual instance. < 1311106707 218334 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin + cos) 0 < 1311106708 722108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0 < 1311106716 589380 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin + cos + 1) 0 < 1311106717 930760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.0 < 1311106745 702550 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also known in math as "pointwise" arithmetic < 1311106790 786900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : probably not legally of course < 1311106793 311327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't say? < 1311106865 305303 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 2 < 1311106866 361417 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (id + 2 * id + 5) 3 < 1311106866 559879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1311106867 561224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 14 < 1311106877 979482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, is it legal in the UK to crack the DRM on a legitimate copy of something you bought? < 1311106884 118130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is, but I'm not sure < 1311106887 935724 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1311106888 210662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's illegal in the US) < 1311106899 621832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stupid DMCA) < 1311106937 633294 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311107093 175057 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it's annoying that CakeProphet isn't here so i can correct his haskell misconceptions :P < 1311107129 910185 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mystery of the dictionary is the way each entry just contains words. < 1311107155 656015 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: a bootstrapping problem... < 1311107164 906801 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1311107255 703652 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet, I think types should have strictness info < 1311107279 580599 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for a visit to wiki < 1311107281 754389 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictness is not a property of types, but of functions. although some data constructors can be strict functions (if declared with !) < 1311107284 825150 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311107285 858017 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311107300 159407 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if having fields declared with ! < 1311107324 856568 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit Vorpal isn't here either :( < 1311107340 270522 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am here ! < 1311107351 202299 :Tritonio!~TrT@188.4.78.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311107360 166091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ? < 1311107363 36250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1311107364 211716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1311107365 296286 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you weren't involved in the conversation i am logreading < 1311107372 141652 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1311107387 953123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm preoccupied though < 1311107407 799440 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i was just commenting on your strictness comment < 1311107479 70294 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The oldest known dictionaries were Akkadian empire cuneiform tablets with bilingual Sumerian�Akkadian wordlists, discovered in Ebla (modern Syria) and dated roughly 2300 BCE." I assume they also had the bootstrapping problem < 1311107523 746626 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bilingual is another side of it.. far more useful < 1311107552 815619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1311107564 171458 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok CakeProphet's haskell misconceptions are becoming too much for me, i'll skip the rest of that log discussion < 1311107659 919272 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" no first move advantage and no draws? how can it be so. :o" <<< you can easily remove draws from any game, and i don't think this has anything to do with first move advantages < 1311107727 907055 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311107733 219770 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm thinking of calling it Brainfuck < 1311107761 282829 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll need wiki disambiguation then < 1311107770 396553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311107777 647650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang needs more disambiguation < 1311107786 702061 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may not have been completely strict about those terms on the arimaa page.. im probably taking "no first move advantage" too literally < 1311107809 375413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :realising the need for disambig just made the idea seem even better < 1311107862 114479 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" But theoretically, there are only a finite number of possible games of Go" <<< depends on endgame rules, i think some of them might let you have an uncountable number of games? < 1311108113 622310 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311108210 262426 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" yes but you weren't involved in the conversation i am logreading whew" <<< well THANKS :| < 1311108346 112920 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: no first move advantage is always relative, since mathematically it's rather meaningless < 1311108390 499849 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means that when humans play the game, they don't find starting particularly useful < 1311108428 196785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: depends on the ko rule, not the engame rules < 1311108437 254499 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm sorry i meant the ko rule < 1311108445 300751 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is an endgame rule < 1311108450 446157 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i just watched the arimaa tutorial. interesting game. < 1311108490 642316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: basically, rules for scoring when the players can't agree who won < 1311108491 494498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was present when someone mentioned porn in the House of Commons < 1311108494 962500 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On National Television < 1311108499 764953 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't all go rules forbid repeated positions? < 1311108513 652718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: yes, but they differ in the timeframe they forbid them in < 1311108517 800870 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311108523 593957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :superko forbids any sort of repetition over the lifetime of the game < 1311108532 723386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but simple ko disallows only undoing the opponent's last move < 1311108533 665023 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh right, in any case what i meant was i certainly didn't meant that < 1311108543 893169 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether the ban on repeated positions in chess is even taken into account until the endgame < 1311108557 661392 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229163084.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311108562 199183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some variants which disallow triple KO too (basically, where each player repeatedly undoes the opponent's last-but-3 move) < 1311108572 539528 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it is obvious that there IS a first player advantage in arimaa in the sense that the first player has a winning strategy, we just don't know it < 1311108575 875354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was present when someone mentioned porn in the House of Commons < 1311108576 73702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : On National Television < 1311108576 927639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES < 1311108584 625331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what were you doing in the house of commons? < 1311108597 493092 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311108597 693661 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Zwaarddijk: yes, but they differ in the timeframe they forbid them in" <<< what do you mean? < 1311108603 94806 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you explain < 1311108610 293636 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being a member of one of the two organisations allowed to debat there < 1311108627 741215 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*debate < 1311108631 306587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, present as in actually there < 1311108636 704068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He's secretly the Queen. < 1311108642 579841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was trying to deliberately misinterpret, but I think I failed < 1311108642 996941 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" but simple ko disallows only undoing the opponent's last move" <<< this was what i meant, then could a game theoretically go on forever? < 1311108649 369479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, which house of commons? < 1311108652 249581 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] whew" <<< well THANKS :| <-- that was on response to noticing Vorpal was actually present duh :( < 1311108654 757326 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in London < 1311108671 491690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, it even happens sometimes (triple KO, when each player undoes the opponent's last-but-third move, and doing anything else would give a major disadvantage) < 1311108674 566218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet, I think types should have strictness info < 1311108676 765509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, you're in that youth whatsit that doesn't matter, right? < 1311108677 245902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did he say this < 1311108680 577721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, last-but-2 < 1311108690 931908 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, PH < 1311108692 439979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: did you see someone attack Rupert Murdoch? < 1311108695 984416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his wife retaliate? < 1311108697 855991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you miss it? < 1311108706 497755 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left before that happened < 1311108709 914008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that wasn't even in the House of Commons, was it? < 1311108711 752104 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: alright. then just add some possible move in the middle and you'll have uncountably many games. < 1311108721 425436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: indeed < 1311108723 316513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You may have been there years ago, but were you there TODAY??? < 1311108723 733408 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly enough, go is a second player win < 1311108725 990018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--ais < 1311108726 823794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was in the same building < 1311108727 22271 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1311108730 373676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's proven? < 1311108731 207443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the same room < 1311108731 540505 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :winning strategy for second player < 1311108734 981301 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1311108736 176242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is normally used < 1311108740 634835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: lol < 1311108742 564149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was one of the committee rooms < 1311108752 561591 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1311108755 20710 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm just telling you because i like you < 1311108759 139740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok < 1311108762 318996 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not where they'd let a random teenager who doesn't matter. < 1311108765 386202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is the riemann hypothesis true < 1311108771 906773 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course it is < 1311108775 162684 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311108777 273491 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311108782 403009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, aaron swartz charged with data theft? < 1311108787 612522 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mythbusters said so < 1311108788 562817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is the continuum hypothesis true? < 1311108831 194674 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder whether the ban on repeated positions in chess is even taken into account until the endgame <-- well insofar as it only being during the endgame that you're likely to not have irreversible moves (e.g. captures, pawn movements) < 1311108847 412760 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: independent from axioms. yeah it's true. < 1311108850 667055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not "theft" of data he got from people < 1311108866 343289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :liberating academic papers, it seems < 1311108876 125067 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess is also first player win < 1311108885 828965 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tennis, interestingly enough, is always a draw. < 1311108901 738477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, he didn't even do anything wrong < 1311108906 643586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just downloaded more articles than they wanted < 1311108913 349897 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: And sex? < 1311108933 688577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote interestingly enough, go is a second player win chess is also first player win tennis, interestingly enough, is always a draw. < 1311108935 91714 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :517) interestingly enough, go is a second player win chess is also first player win tennis, interestingly enough, is always a draw. < 1311108950 417018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, looks like he also broke into a cabinet or something. < 1311108963 244183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's not what he's being charged with. < 1311108969 902373 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i have to think about this < 1311108988 287556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I kind of picture MIT as the paramount of Technology and that includes some aspects of security. I am disappoint about lax NAC." < 1311108992 784316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT: HEIGHT OF SECURITY < 1311108998 618904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why no pranks ever happen there, ever < 1311109001 833104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he did do anything wrong, he didn't have access to even a single article legitimately < 1311109003 415995 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT: TIM BACKWARDS < 1311109015 355830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he got the access by breaking into the cupboard containing a network switch at MIT < 1311109025 516642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wasn't an MITian at the time < 1311109034 916670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then piggybacked on their access < 1311109038 989767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: firstly, OK, s/do anything wrong/do anything illegal/ < 1311109041 907331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with both MIT and JSTOR trying to stop him < 1311109055 923087 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ygolonhcet etutitsni fo stessuhcassam < 1311109056 515576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: JSTOR asked the government not to prosecute, it seems < 1311109059 569035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my source may be biased < 1311109061 531343 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" MIT: TIM BACKWARDS" <<< the palindromist strikes again < 1311109067 174388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, vandalising a network switch cabinet is probably wrong even if you agree with everything else he did < 1311109075 946761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was the switch cabinet damaged? < 1311109093 848589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, "vandalising" seems a bit much < 1311109097 391692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so, typically opening a locked cabinet without the key damages it < 1311109112 53788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you pick the lock < 1311109112 651063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the cabinet is badly designed < 1311109126 484687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rather minor damage, but fair enough < 1311109141 61982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, opening a locked cabinet without permission is wrong regardless. < 1311109163 399568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think it's completely inexcusable in all circumstances < 1311109172 792568 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, inexcusable != wrong. < 1311109177 633461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's typically likely to be wrong, but there are circumstances in which it's morally justifiable < 1311109183 603614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not necessarily. < 1311109189 12704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, MIT has a long history of that kind of stuff. < 1311109198 630077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even when done by non-MITers? < 1311109206 859870 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so interesting to me is whether you can have a game like arimaa where there is no first/second player advantage < 1311109235 622594 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a wannabe game designer, this is a pain < 1311109238 303906 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : lifthrasiir: No, the command, the step number, and the index of the command are added up, and the digital root of that (mod 4) is the actual command < 1311109240 207082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not that I know of, but I don't think anyone in charge of switch cabinets at MIT expects them to never be broken into < 1311109245 914151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: making the game symmetrical is an easy way < 1311109254 393306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, both people think of moves independently, then make them simultaneously < 1311109265 584773 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you i believe you can take the digital roots first, and do the additions mod 9 < 1311109269 989034 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :digital root mod 4? what? < 1311109279 112591 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: digital root, then mod 4 < 1311109291 538751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, if they figured out someone had planted a laptop in a switch cabinet, they'd probably have just removed it rather than trying to block its IP and MAC address < 1311109313 779396 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: yeah.. but can you rule out advantage while also ruling out a draw? < 1311109342 391122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you could finish off with matching pennies or something < 1311109350 85436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's a bit of a contrived and cheaty example < 1311109352 979182 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh wait i just realized something, digital roots tend to be 9 not 0. hm whoops i wonder if my table has errors because of this. < 1311109365 998601 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :matching pennies? < 1311109385 75510 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just looking at the painful limitations of games < 1311109389 339225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: a two player game; each player says head or tails (chosen independently, and then both reveal at the same time), the first player wins if they say the same, the second otherwise < 1311109404 737654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit like rock-paper-scissors, except you can't get draws < 1311109407 918041 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 shouldn't happen unless you are at the beginning of the program starting with 0! < 1311109425 279424 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1311109455 975972 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: i like the sound of it < 1311109509 648624 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uurgh... < 1311109512 158994 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ill < 1311109556 177683 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1311109565 506010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: use a unicorn horn if you can; if not, eat eucalyptus leaf or as a last resort pray < 1311109569 917819 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311109571 709289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only have around 40 turns left to live < 1311109577 593315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, wrong channel < 1311109625 859470 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So each player specifies a 0 or 1 privately p1 and p2. And then they are both revealed. if (p1 == p2) player 1 wins, else player 2 wins. < 1311109630 654985 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be some 0's should be 1's instead. fortunately this won't ruin the easy numberwang row < 1311109661 672360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: yep, that's it < 1311109770 20814 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ais: yeah.. but can you rule out advantage while also ruling out a draw?" <<< if you don't have draws, either the first or the second player always wins, obviously. (assuming perfect players, and why wouldn't you.) < 1311109835 295362 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay if you have imperfect information, that's not true < 1311109852 68922 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :noone in the universe has perfect information :> < 1311109855 574906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: imperfect information or randomness < 1311109861 60631 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-P < 1311109861 892871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :matching pennies does it via imperfect information < 1311109864 370616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah to what ais523 said < 1311109882 86346 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: but it's still very formal. i like it. it's not dice rolling < 1311109884 881453 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing except silent disapproval to what itidus20 said < 1311109919 219137 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: have you read any game theory? it's all about that stuff < 1311109927 516815 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklo: i don't like the state of affairs. i am slinging arrows about. < 1311109952 922874 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes perfect sense i guess < 1311109973 740989 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I've never heard of any rules of Go which would lead to an uncountable number of games < 1311110011 311586 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so.. looking at the penny example. so each player selects 1 bit privately, and then.. the rules are a 2 bit table. < 1311110044 903898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that's a common representation for games in academia < 1311110048 913336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a lookup table < 1311110054 195559 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have it such that the rules were stacked 3 ways to win vs 1 way to lose < 1311110054 395116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work too well for complex games, though < 1311110073 727846 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ais523 just mentioned simple ko < 1311110075 85884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that wouldn't be too fun, though, as one player play the move that let them always win < 1311110078 822911 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311110081 633420 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311110084 599472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: simple ko, you can < 1311110089 822914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :superko, the number of games is finite < 1311110090 765062 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How? < 1311110100 14418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: triple ko allows you to produce arbitrary integers < 1311110100 566197 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: and this is why fundamentally we hate first person advantage < 1311110106 463348 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which are countable < 1311110108 222848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two triple kos on the board at the same time gives arbitarry reals < 1311110119 143647 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1311110122 248605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can interleave them uncountably many ways < 1311110138 806325 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it ultimately allows the first player to always win in perfect conditions(which luckily don't exist) < 1311110157 276702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, imagine you take the binary expansion of a real, for 0 each player plays a move in the first triple ko, for 1 each player plays a move in the second triple ko < 1311110164 506633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all reals give different games that way < 1311110169 633117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(between 0 and 1, but that doesn't matter) < 1311110175 865141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, uncountably many games are possible < 1311110189 760278 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alternatively, have repetitions either 3 or 4 steps away from each other and just encode a bit sequence < 1311110191 27742 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311110192 788783 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to me.. chess is matching pennies where: 01 = win, 00,10,11 = lose < 1311110195 634672 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm... < 1311110199 64696 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311110206 813438 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that its so complex that noone knows how to grab that advantage < 1311110218 526760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: fair enough < 1311110237 203151 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its ok and all... but its a nasty fact. < 1311110237 401220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people tend to play chess a lot more than matching pennies, thuogh < 1311110238 664732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1311110247 707706 :Tritonio!~TrT@188.4.78.85 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311110247 905795 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok you win < 1311110256 341919 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means chess is useless on a small enough scale < 1311110266 903791 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't scale down to simple < 1311110280 892031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect there's more perceived skill in chess precisely because you can gain an advantage by knowing the lookup table more than your opponent does < 1311110290 254874 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a small enough board it is tic tac toe as far as the PC is concerned < 1311110305 298792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311110336 99263 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still appreciate the actuality of chess < 1311110346 153858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc with the natural infinitification, go with simple ko is something like exptime hard but we don't know anything about superko < 1311110373 949443 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whether a position is winning that is) < 1311110391 908569 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the actuality of chess mean? < 1311110414 195613 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what people do with chess instead of theorizing and analyzing it < 1311110420 629546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :play it < 1311110436 971946 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. that one. yeah < 1311110455 592140 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess is extremely boring to play though < 1311110503 727951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what do you not find boring to play? < 1311110539 240638 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :space jazz? < 1311110552 915460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i like board games where you don't need to think, then i don't start clumsily doing brute-force search < 1311110561 652340 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :say monopoly < 1311110614 175753 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hmm < 1311110624 518379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monopoly: the game designed to tear families apart. < 1311110625 734635 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of liked go as well the one time i played it < 1311110628 176636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the skill in monopoly is negotiation < 1311110633 681229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two-player monopoly is really boring < 1311110639 181533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hence the families being torn apart. < 1311110649 841218 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on trying to arbitrarily map the 4 possible results of penny matching i see that only 1 version is balanced < 1311110662 876524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :negotiation is gay, i just like the part where you have a number that tells you how good you're doing and it randomly goes up or down < 1311110670 282147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :95% of divorces are due to Monopoly, true fact. < 1311110670 863344 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can you negotiate in monopoly? I thought the rules and chance decided everything in monopoly? < 1311110692 489277 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to try Diplomacy at some point
< 1311110696 244019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_, you say 'oi, do that and I'll do that'. < 1311110699 735887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's pretty boring. < 1311110713 869918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: you can trade properties < 1311110715 756980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, wrong thing. < 1311110717 929554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also money < 1311110732 70535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah negotiation type of thingies are certainly more fun than search games < 1311110746 859105 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d2 < 1311110747 231195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d2 => 1 < 1311110791 879187 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die ld2 < 1311110792 603368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "l": expecting number < 1311110798 617328 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311110803 262564 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d2 < 1311110804 90816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d2 => 1 < 1311110876 697303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die evil scum < 1311110877 428873 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "e": expecting number < 1311110895 658295 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT e IS A NUMBER!" < 1311110897 10735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d(1d(1d6)) < 1311110897 838730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "(": expecting number < 1311110898 394688 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-" < 1311110900 260984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1311110910 166871 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d1e6 < 1311110911 42877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "e": expecting digit, "+" or end < 1311110919 622863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d2.7 < 1311110920 455898 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected ".": expecting digit, "+" or end < 1311110934 323093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: so by "expecting number", you mean "expecting positive integer"? < 1311110937 484023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d0 < 1311110938 413073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d0 => 0 < 1311110940 24464 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp233.akk.k-net.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1311110947 601266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 0d1 < 1311110948 252412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :0d1 => 0 < 1311110955 835650 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-negative then ... unless you say 0 is positive < 1311110969 270458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, non-negative, I was surprised at those cases working < 1311110972 411427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the first of them < 1311111018 149326 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 100000000000000000000000000000000000d6 < 1311111018 939892 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :100000000000000000000000000... => 350000000000000000177312581656777664 < 1311111035 815822 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1311111053 811343 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1311111081 687836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at zero-sided die < 1311111097 434615 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it does randomR (1,x) which ends up being (1,0) and lo>hi is undefined < 1311111106 387938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just goes to an infinite loop if you cast it < 1311111108 359415 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unspecified < 1311111173 178246 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a zero-sided die, could be a sphere < 1311111194 859535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a one-sided die < 1311111206 26202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zero-sided die would have to not land at all < 1311111449 507531 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit weird though, the limit at infinite sides would be a sphere, so I'd expect the lower limit to be something else < 1311111525 655461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bot on Foonetic < 1311111547 133993 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calls 2 sided die coins, 1 sided die marbles, and 0 sided die ephemeral, iirc < 1311111610 170789 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are 3 sided die? Die? < 1311111638 590435 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ethereal < 1311111642 600232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oops < 1311111647 112617 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 sided are called ethereal < 1311111657 792805 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just die < 1311111679 876828 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1d1 < 1311111680 75183 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1, dummy. < 1311111680 75360 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1d2 < 1311111680 75461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo got: tails. < 1311111680 75612 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1d0 < 1311111680 824069 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ethereal dice always show 0. < 1311111702 851895 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ethereal and ephemeral mean kind of the same thing? < 1311111748 870512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311111754 160659 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1000000000000d1 < 1311111754 439075 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't have that many marbles. < 1311111754 636963 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1000000000000d2 < 1311111754 637123 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't have that many coins. < 1311111754 637224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1000000000000d0 < 1311111754 637321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ephemeral is fleeting < 1311111754 835525 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ethereal dice always show 0. < 1311111756 523527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ethereal is ghostly < 1311111775 754022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a temporary file is ephemeral; sprites are ethereal < 1311111779 259838 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoooooooooky < 1311111790 46901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totes < 1311111803 376596 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo rolls 1000000000000d3 < 1311111803 575291 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : My dice bag is not that big. < 1311112283 673690 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what about 3-sided? everything 4 and up is trivial, and we seem to have covered 0-2, but I can't imagine anything 3d and 3-sided < 1311112288 913567 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se NICK :olsner < 1311112398 444113 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, i can < 1311112458 517753 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah if the faces need to be plane, hmmhmm. < 1311112484 892600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is impossible < 1311112495 973142 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the idea each face needs to be a triangle < 1311112500 349579 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^at least a < 1311112509 168969 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should be able to make something that has exactly three stable states < 1311112519 671824 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well that's easy < 1311112534 294371 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it need to be regular < 1311112540 127285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have two points on each side < 1311112544 829155 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, non-side < 1311112545 791030 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you add a vertex to a triangle you get a 4 sided shape < 1311112553 438296 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah for instance what Sgeo is saying < 1311112694 70808 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can't have bends, consider the first face, the second face and the third face must divide its rim in among each other and extend in the same direction; but then if those faces are plane, and the resulting object is closed, clearly the first face has to be just a line < 1311112697 215484 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, what about 3-sided? everything 4 and up is trivial, and we seem to have covered 0-2, but I can't imagine anything 3d and 3-sided < 1311112718 624651 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trivial to make a shape which can only form a stable equilibrium in n states. < 1311112752 569181 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, you missed the line a couple of lines down where I drew that conclusion < 1311113921 567722 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311114069 224411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this distressing feeling that my headphone jack is on its last legs. < 1311114097 688088 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311114298 494427 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311114436 890798 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311114594 547887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311114678 82854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311116562 111590 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311117467 230100 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does something unthinkable on Linux...
< 1311117472 186131 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defragmentation. < 1311117505 759162 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOO < 1311117757 339561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Fuck clay its only purpose is ecoration < 1311117758 451786 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :518) Fuck clay its only purpose is ecoration < 1311117929 813872 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecoration of ecosystems < 1311117994 790794 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311118011 1288 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :decosystems < 1311118040 944861 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I've seen some very useful clay < 1311118135 575599 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is a line more true than a curve? < 1311118149 236830 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^straight line < 1311118177 183772 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true? what does that mean < 1311118180 420495 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311118197 197019 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just that straight lines are easy < 1311118227 145883 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is theory more puce than practice? < 1311118236 788060 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a fixation on straight lines < 1311118252 620370 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love curvy wobbly non-lines < 1311118262 829609 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1311118351 27840 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to associate 1 dimension with a straight line < 1311118381 618494 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably all those x,y,z diagrams < 1311118471 769882 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally (and this seems to have happened to no fanfare), e4defrag seems to have actually gotten released. < 1311118477 115110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Straight? One dimension? < 1311118502 205127 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean that 1D things are normally portrayed as straight, that's because they have no innate curvature. < 1311118542 535853 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is perfectly *valid* to have a 1-dimensional vector space in a higher space that is curved in that higher space, though. < 1311118552 8028 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: a 1 dimensional vector space _is_ a straight line. < 1311118563 680689 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: um, no. that's not a vector space then. < 1311118576 219591 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a vector subspace. < 1311118600 431020 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Actually, let me think about this before I try to explain what I meant. < 1311118606 299169 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And see if I just said something stupid. < 1311118614 4584 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however 1 dimensional non-vector spaces don't need to be straight lines (duh) < 1311118624 299770 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: informally I get what you meant. that a ribbon representing 1d could twirl about in 3d space < 1311118633 540347 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I just said something stupid. < 1311118635 163478 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still represent 1d < 1311118666 467644 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vector spaces quite explicitly need to be linear. < 1311118691 323860 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-filling_curve >:) < 1311118693 627100 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, a non-vector space has no such restrction. Yay. < 1311118716 348619 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@no such restriction.. ^5 another beer < 1311118717 194582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error at ".." (column 17) < 1311118732 205122 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311118751 242320 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what that command was
< 1311118755 218666 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@no < 1311118755 982113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :() < 1311118760 168052 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@nod < 1311118760 863267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: bid do id todo yow < 1311118770 103289 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311118770 495007 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he did lambda < 1311118772 851437 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list do < 1311118773 634153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :undo provides: undo do < 1311118788 622492 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Excuse me for saying stupid shit. Just because I did well in linear algebra doesn't mean I'm going to fuck up even basic bits of it. :P < 1311118790 847575 :foocraft!~ewanas@89.211.221.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311118813 87527 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@do [such restriction.. 2^5 another beer] < 1311118814 12661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[such restriction .. 2 ^ 5 another beer] < 1311118817 995760 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO CLOSE < 1311118835 340141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1311118843 109128 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1311118846 854428 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@no [such restriction.. 2^5 another beer] < 1311118847 523658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[such restriction .. 2 ^ 5 another beer] < 1311118876 114390 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so close to parsing correctly < 1311118911 517851 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my role here is to be a clueless free agent assuming to understand another's field without having read more than a wiki page or 2 < 1311118930 480843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311118948 269314 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: see what you did, scaring away elliott < 1311118976 201776 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't recall where the understanding anothers field line comes from.. probably big bang theory < 1311118979 499759 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott doesn't like clueless people, true fact < 1311118999 68210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311119036 925247 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my comments are also hopefully kind of fun because they have no financial or research incentive < 1311119043 459648 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't mean to be anything < 1311119065 60732 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so you are not a spambot, i guess that's _something_... < 1311119098 251885 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm romero to carmack < 1311119110 501361 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that is saying a bit much < 1311119166 756000 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maximum [] < 1311119167 867950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.maximum: empty list < 1311119190 99355 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oi56.tinypic.com/2d14acn.jpg < 1311119572 632828 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@t (1,) < 1311119573 291614 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v < 1311119577 656763 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (1,) < 1311119579 16250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal tuple section: use -XTupleSections < 1311119626 271674 :foocraft!~ewanas@178.152.90.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311119672 491045 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (,) 1 -- same thing < 1311119674 112822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t b. (Num t) => b -> (t, b) < 1311119697 564042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just found out "bash on balls" exist. Seriously wtf. < 1311119710 236793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/jayferd/balls < 1311119841 757304 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311119851 429616 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha what < 1311119868 853509 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash web platform sounds like a horrible idea < 1311119907 680030 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be a joke. < 1311119913 345741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think it is tongue in cheek indeed < 1311119922 157604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a fully-featured web platform for everyone's favorite scripting language: bash. Because, you know, we can." < 1311120130 147354 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks that doing that on zsh would be slightly saner. If still completely nuts. < 1311120159 21543 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src head < 1311120160 49765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :head (x:_) = x < 1311120160 247519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :head [] = undefined < 1311120173 859800 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src undefined < 1311120174 554643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined = error "Prelude.undefined" < 1311120187 949112 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined < 1311120189 458937 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311120198 193147 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head [] < 1311120199 473068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.head: empty list < 1311120208 421254 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311120227 435048 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: that head source is not canonical, implementations are allowed to use more specific error messages < 1311120275 84657 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1311120282 621608 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just unexpected when the source says one thing and the result is another. < 1311120312 336812 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think @src is a bit of a mishmash of haskell report and ghc source < 1311120328 182682 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it seems to do source from the Report except when it's really misleading. < 1311120359 612684 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a different _|_ value is not very misleading. :) < 1311120422 426641 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix error < 1311120423 649137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E... < 1311120694 306643 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src == < 1311120694 863380 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == y = not (x /= y) < 1311120700 682503 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src /= < 1311120701 436962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x /= y = not (x == y) < 1311120714 817540 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be messy when neither is implemented.. < 1311120729 450082 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t error < 1311120730 840190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [Char] -> a < 1311120743 351404 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how does that work? < 1311120821 108542 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: error is a bottom value. Which, incidentally, is the only kind of value which is of every type. < 1311120824 610532 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple. :) < 1311120835 956149 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix error < 1311120837 54179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E... < 1311120847 444710 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clearly returning a [Char] < 1311120854 488096 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311120855 529660 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that makes /sense/ at that. < 1311120857 616684 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix error < 1311120858 986265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] < 1311120861 293524 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311120869 48105 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right yeah < 1311120870 715559 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix < 1311120872 200824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a < 1311120873 441623 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error error "wat" < 1311120874 817829 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' < 1311120875 15382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ty... < 1311120875 965424 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dumb < 1311120877 284781 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: It's not actually making sense. < 1311120886 487491 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error $ error "wat" < 1311120887 769181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: wat < 1311120897 185040 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src error < 1311120897 606061 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: The show routine is printing out the initial " for the string. < 1311120897 883862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :error s = throw (ErrorCall s) < 1311120920 45129 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: And then the RTS starts outputting that it got an exception, so it prints *Exception: . < 1311120930 991883 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: And then, it tries to output the error message for that. < 1311120936 410297 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: And then the RTS starts outputting that it got an exception, so it prints *Exception: . < 1311120942 92515 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: And so on. < 1311120958 343407 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1311120991 494196 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so you get an infinite number of error messages. < 1311121043 164850 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3,4,(error "5")] < 1311121044 633820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,*Exception: 5 < 1311121050 41707 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 4 $ [1,2,3,4,(error "5")] < 1311121051 420718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4] < 1311121053 191127 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 $ [1,2,3,4,(error "5")] < 1311121054 314289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,*Exception: 5 < 1311121054 633955 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error undefined < 1311121055 949264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311121066 100896 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 0 $ reverse $ [1,2,3,4,(error "5")] < 1311121067 552828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1311121177 431377 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src throw < 1311121178 126582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw exception = raise# exception < 1311121182 338240 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src raise# < 1311121183 80985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Are you on drugs? < 1311121187 120091 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-; < 1311121196 776553 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t raise# < 1311121198 4706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `raise#' < 1311121201 543961 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x -> raise# x < 1311121202 882629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `raise#' < 1311121214 452426 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is raise# an internal function? < 1311121223 279553 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what # is used to indicate, yes. < 1311121749 356744 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let blah# = 1 in blah# + blah# < 1311121750 861093 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1311121816 118390 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311122058 22696 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311122226 334317 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's just a convention. < 1311122444 934507 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let # = 1 in # + # < 1311122446 185294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `#' < 1311122454 651715 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _ = 1 in _ + _ < 1311122456 180162 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pattern syntax in expression context: _Pattern syntax in expression context... < 1311122465 986407 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1311122477 782525 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let # = 1 in (#) + (#) < 1311122479 33647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `#' < 1311122482 36412 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balls. < 1311122792 407925 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (#) = 1 in (#) + (#) < 1311122793 520703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1311122826 414277 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear that lambdabot has MacicHash set, anyway < 1311122835 412215 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MagicHash < 1311123000 976103 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311123115 420694 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _# = 1 in _# + _# < 1311123116 720381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1311123123 1936 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let #_ = 1 in #_ + #_ < 1311123124 384378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `#' < 1311123126 656763 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :wah < 1311123252 11186 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311123274 722101 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with MagicHash # is treated essentially as an alphanumerical character, but not one that can be at the beginning of an identifier (i.e. more like a number than like a letter) < 1311123303 385616 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _#_#_ = 1 in _#_#_ < 1311123304 718872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pattern syntax in expression context: _ < 1311123314 510882 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so much for that theory < 1311123317 512287 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1311123334 964121 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _# = 1 in _# < 1311123336 105192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1311123341 70939 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _ # = 1 in _ # < 1311123342 412640 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1311123348 839263 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _# = 1 in _ # < 1311123350 122645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1311123356 724999 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm weird < 1311123365 254881 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _#_ = 1 in _#_ < 1311123366 715974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pattern syntax in expression context: _ < 1311123375 231139 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _#a = 1 in _#a < 1311123376 447056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1311123414 716626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _* = 1 in _* < 1311123415 775357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1311123452 343832 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _#a = a+b in _#a < 1311123453 903880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a + b < 1311123461 576757 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1311123484 993932 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _#a = a+b in _#b < 1311123486 661927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : b + b < 1311123493 837438 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaah < 1311123518 814375 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let _# a = a+b in _#b < 1311123520 207661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : b + b < 1311123540 999930 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so somehow the # _always_ ends the identifier < 1311123571 389882 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a#b = a+b in c#d < 1311123572 768339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `c#' < 1311123603 52660 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let **/** = blah in **/** < 1311123604 364427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `**/**' < 1311123607 170822 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1311123614 379837 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let * = 1 in * < 1311123615 756904 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `*' < 1311123617 410277 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boggles
< 1311123627 987837 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> * < 1311123629 525513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `*' < 1311123634 406898 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.weather.com/maps/maptype/currentweatherusnational/uscurrentheatindex_large.html The US midwest: because OH GOD MY FLESH IS BOILING < 1311123639 911993 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, # really is special, it is not an operator character in this use < 1311123652 143778 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a # b = a+b in 2 # 2 < 1311123652 341713 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let **/** = \x y -> x * y in 1 **/** 2 < 1311123653 916208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1311123654 113882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `**/**' < 1311123659 446480 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (**/**) = \x y -> x * y in 1 **/** 2 < 1311123660 833074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1311123661 250421 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it seems to be there < 1311123713 858129 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x **/** y = x * y in 1 **/** 2 < 1311123715 290762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1311123729 502729 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for non-Americans; those are °F; 30°C = 86°F) < 1311123766 777162 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :86 F is not bad. < 1311123771 366501 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :100+ is. < 1311123777 500614 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :such is texas < 1311123782 620603 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (#) = \x y -> x * y in 1 # 2 < 1311123783 970015 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And the US midwest. < 1311123784 168421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1311123788 943054 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is weird. < 1311123803 252272 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I wonder what Flordia is like. < 1311123852 946082 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/haggis/GAhuydjnactzJByDuEBnhFbDleICnFGGiFwbyctAFhibnccygAlcFybAECye/media_httptdwgeeksfil_EyJDb.jpg.scaled500.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1311124134&Signature=tHe1WUqs4692fTb%2BKjKr84%2FuYbk%3D < 1311123863 128052 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn that was a long URL < 1311123874 278323 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D, though. < 1311123979 139131 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: # is only weird if the MagicHash flag is set, otherwise i believe it's an ordinary operator char < 1311124054 909568 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1311124072 530022 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and normally the MagicHash flag is only set if you want to import and use ghc internal/primitive functions < 1311124086 573306 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those containing # in their name) < 1311124123 959580 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or if you want to define them, but that's for the ghc implementers < 1311124158 510232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1311124166 54863 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let throw# = \x -> x in error 'this wont work i dont think" < 1311124167 225608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1311124167 503607 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1311124169 6042 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although many of them probably aren't defined in haskell at all < 1311124174 913600 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let throw# = \x -> x in error "this wont work i dont think" < 1311124176 116816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: this wont work i dont think < 1311124176 812404 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 86 F is not bad. < 1311124181 852248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 86 < 1311124184 157214 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :30.0 < 1311124188 821685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1311124192 729610 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanetemp? < 1311124193 247622 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1311124195 919498 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice function. < 1311124202 435468 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insanetemp 30 < 1311124205 542712 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail. < 1311124210 376610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sanetemp < 1311124210 686832 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" < 1311124215 90583 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: well duh haskell is lexically scoped (except for ?x implicit parameters) < 1311124230 223860 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm aware. < 1311124230 641196 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1311124256 478072 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 105 < 1311124256 967809 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :40.5 < 1311124259 708807 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a few days ago. < 1311124260 337020 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1311124267 75106 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaa < 1311124318 611884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp insanetemp sh dc -e "1k?9*5/32+p" < 1311124318 997381 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter insanetemp installed. < 1311124328 809957 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insanetemp 30 < 1311124329 296928 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :86.0 < 1311124332 568316 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1311124332 822945 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ustemp valspeak warez w < 1311124346 673600 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah always running out of space in that list < 1311124350 905662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pikhq hello, world < 1311124351 528285 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, world < 1311124357 510717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show pikhq < 1311124357 785141 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh sed 's/th/þ/g ; s/Th/Þ/g ; s/s/ſ/g ; s/ae/æ/g ; s/Ae/Æ/g ; s/oe/œ/g ; s/Oe/Œ/g' < 1311124361 222487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1311124395 140220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pikhq The rain in Span falls mainly on the encyclopaedias of foetuses. < 1311124395 637780 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Þe rain in Span fallſ mainly on þe encyclopædiaſ of fœtuſeſ. < 1311124424 946707 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: EgoBot needs a better listing method for !userinterps < 1311124435 766871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1311124436 326652 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14156 < 1311124456 800801 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably do something about that last digit. < 1311124459 608924 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show show < 1311124459 887421 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a user interpreter! < 1311124463 487487 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1311124466 819174 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show warez < 1311124467 129400 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh warez < 1311124472 740561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!warez < 1311124479 75507 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!warez hello world < 1311124479 516697 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :h3lLo worl|) < 1311124481 736326 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat warez < 1311124482 205568 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/cat: warez: No such file or directory < 1311124487 245592 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh where warez < 1311124487 688088 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.16017: line 1: where: command not found < 1311124491 95128 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat `which warez` < 1311124491 724310 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF... < 1311124493 312111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clap clap clap* < 1311124497 759665 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh which warez < 1311124498 313956 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/warez < 1311124510 239479 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat /usr/bin/warez | paste < 1311124510 740793 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF... < 1311124515 499069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311124521 55293 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh which paste < 1311124521 528015 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/paste < 1311124540 859024 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat /usr/bin/warez 2>&1 | paste < 1311124541 337365 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF... < 1311124541 780943 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's HackEgo which does that pasting stuff < 1311124544 853269 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: man paste por favor. < 1311124551 867331 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh man paste < 1311124552 449809 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1311124554 435347 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE < 1311124558 956581 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*On your own system*. < 1311124578 513011 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you a hint; it's in GNU coreutils, and mandated by POSIX. < 1311124589 47062 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps < 1311124600 493038 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. < 1311124600 770990 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh sprunge < 1311124601 255595 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.16456: line 1: sprunge: command not found < 1311124611 187363 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the function to post things into pastebin again? < 1311124611 743296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ls < 1311124619 985509 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!paste cat /usr/bin/warez < 1311124631 485841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us < 1311124648 140352 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat /usr/bin/warez 2>&1 | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us < 1311124648 545784 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.16593: line 1: curl: command not found < 1311124650 95468 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You lie. < 1311124657 911032 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cp /usr/bin/warez warez < 1311124658 428691 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/cp: cannot create regular file `warez': Permission denied < 1311124665 55659 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cp /usr/bin/warez ./test < 1311124665 580863 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/cp: cannot create regular file `./test': Permission denied < 1311124668 83506 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :;, < 1311124669 372088 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :;, < 1311124671 353759 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1311124674 505212 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh pwd < 1311124674 907256 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds < 1311124681 275074 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls -l < 1311124681 755307 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: interps: Function not implemented < 1311124691 700592 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat /usr/bin/warez > warez < 1311124692 220396 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.16852: line 1: warez: Permission denied < 1311124695 164726 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1311124704 801591 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /usr/bin/warez > warez < 1311124706 138379 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1311124717 469366 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste /usr/bin/warez < 1311124718 720772 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26123 < 1311124728 565647 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste warez < 1311124730 107623 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6501 < 1311124742 20612 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which paste < 1311124743 313308 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/hackenv.17049/bin/paste < 1311124764 687699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /tmp < 1311124765 198192 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :input.17146 < 1311124795 943481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I kind of hoped they both ran in the same environment. < 1311124812 935172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1311124816 530599 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1311124818 283642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311124991 172745 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311127467 268221 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Suggestions/patches welcome. < 1311127498 340729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ? < 1311127937 539848 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: EgoBot's !userinterps list keeps overflowing < 1311128011 970621 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1311128012 225311 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ustemp valspeak warez w < 1311128014 731485 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311128085 713553 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe making a different list for the things that aren't really interpreters? < 1311128117 857674 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : !userutils or something < 1311128131 461946 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fudd the best utility < 1311128132 13754 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :de best utiwity < 1311128150 734553 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ehird what does this one do < 1311128151 286260 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut does this one do < 1311128156 120097 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1311128162 192937 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show ehird < 1311128162 486295 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh funetak < 1311128170 529167 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show fudd < 1311128170 822776 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh fudd < 1311128173 964658 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show elmer < 1311128174 307660 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl for (<>) {lc; s/l(?!e\W)/w/g; s/\Ber|(? not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines $ map ((" " ++) . unwords . words) $ food $ map toLower) < 1311128184 313571 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh those aren't actually equal < 1311128233 943817 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly another list for all those respelling commands < 1311128252 285853 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!eehird is this one any good < 1311128256 616009 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311128260 830217 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh too < 1311128281 186570 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!eehird what happened there? < 1311128296 615552 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah lots of missing imports < 1311128324 213117 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isAlpha and isSpace? < 1311128335 234349 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is dropWhile not in Prelude either < 1311128352 513892 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp eehird < 1311128352 833177 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter eehird deleted. < 1311128372 100082 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp eehird haskell import Data.Char; main = interact (let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines $ map ((" " ++) . unwords . words) $ food $ map toLower) < 1311128372 399669 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter eehird installed. < 1311128383 66664 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!eehird let's see now < 1311128383 264523 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!eehird Does it work now? < 1311128402 180734 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :type errors galore < 1311128425 350380 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing probably never worked in the first place < 1311128474 907158 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp eehird < 1311128475 164070 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter eehird deleted. < 1311128487 742029 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp eehird haskell import Data.Char; main = interact (let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines . map ((" " ++) . unwords . words) . food . map toLower) < 1311128488 44601 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter eehird installed. < 1311128494 634174 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!eehird now then? < 1311128499 704352 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ now then < 1311128522 616671 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ugly second line < 1311128630 928116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311128651 221067 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and EgoBot doesn't support multiline output to the channel < 1311128676 720000 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think it may be intended to simulate your habit of breaking things into tiny lines < 1311128688 331860 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!eehird Like. This. Maybe so! Hm? < 1311128693 528730 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ like < 1311128699 545976 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311128705 327908 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp eehird < 1311128705 590575 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter eehird deleted. < 1311128705 788664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets his gun.
< 1311128726 764801 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot do that with EgoBot anyhow < 1311128748 6317 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1311128748 265106 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ustemp valspeak warez wc yodaw < 1311128767 247858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&limit=500 <-- talk about recent changes spam < 1311128817 850198 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple varieties of spam < 1311128888 820108 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i fixed the part that wasn't Nthern :P < 1311128941 677005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Nthern was the problem :P < 1311128983 141851 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1311129008 768012 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.21.144.51 a good person < 1311129108 695663 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311129113 343566 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show ustemp < 1311129113 672667 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell (print . (+32) . ((9/5)*) . read) =<< getLine < 1311129123 885967 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sanetemp < 1311129124 165848 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" < 1311129129 183624 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show insanetempt < 1311129129 457728 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a user interpreter! < 1311129130 778957 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show insanetemp < 1311129131 84923 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?9*5/32+p" < 1311129140 867827 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ustemp 13 < 1311129143 727505 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :55.400000000000006 < 1311129151 85354 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insanetemp 13 < 1311129151 571327 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :55.4 < 1311129156 164246 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp ustemp < 1311129156 413876 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter ustemp deleted. < 1311129166 27685 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1311129166 280680 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez wc yodawg < 1311129179 455241 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show yodawg < 1311129179 773641 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda (sending via DCC) < 1311129215 437259 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1311129253 483604 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311129406 648200 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: *eh*, it's a User: page < 1311129460 968757 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO DARETH PING ME < 1311129469 439479 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errrgh < 1311129473 182853 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I will eat your soul < 1311129475 697386 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: You 'el' people < 1311129478 424418 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the same. < 1311129484 838140 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not elliott and do not compare me to him < 1311129486 923346 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *eh*, it's a User: page < 1311129487 405992 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a troll :) < 1311129492 377389 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some guy whose client is too stupid to complete nicks by last-speaking < 1311129492 655044 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm probably not the right gender :p < 1311129541 921237 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf :P < 1311129554 788849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1311129577 441977 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the irony demons appear to be haunting me < 1311129616 288816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try doing something really ironic and they'll go away < 1311129632 427423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: can't you just be cateliza or something < 1311129635 376389 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but they just _made_ me do something ironic < 1311129648 646551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you have to do it of your own accord < 1311129649 255802 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: poor CakeProphet < 1311129674 106142 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no conflicts with something though < 1311129707 335100 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreatEliza. see, it's perfect. < 1311129710 439380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet deserves it for his crimes against Haskell. < 1311129714 372634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ElizaTheGreat? < 1311129720 60751 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whoosh < 1311129766 773257 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : Elizacat: can't you just be cateliza or something < 1311129768 370223 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311129769 743395 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't < 1311129781 640427 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm capitalised. I'm more important. < 1311129792 848501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :catEliza < 1311129799 82975 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just about to say < 1311129802 278323 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat_eliza < 1311129807 546574 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311129809 658328 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were to do that < 1311129814 684407 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am a cat in the Eliza namespace < 1311129817 326963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you just in here in case you ever need to ping Vorpal again :P < 1311129824 188085 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an Eliza in the cat namespace. < 1311129830 97415 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it matter why I'm here < 1311129836 45709 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespace who what < 1311129845 612259 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Vorpal and I are already good mates I can get ahold of him elsewhere :3 < 1311129852 184772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you never say anything and you're squatting on valuable name territory >:( < 1311129857 490150 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311129859 265584 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm standing up < 1311129860 711608 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :not squatting < 1311129894 909682 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have much to say, no, I'm quiet. < 1311129905 861531 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but esoteric programming languages interest me. < 1311129919 671042 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also I'm here for fizzie for some mcmap-related stuff if I can ever find him awake < 1311129920 514949 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311129976 584471 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, confused? good, good... < 1311129977 189436 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311129988 45640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: wrong channel, and I'm also an mcmap developer, so just tell me. < 1311129989 332528 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused? < 1311129997 123556 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311130000 742047 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is another channel? < 1311130010 675991 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Vorpal was like "go to #esoteric" and I'm like "sure" < 1311130011 136334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, but it's really semi-private, so I guess here is on-topic enough :-P < 1311130018 160642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, but Vorpal is wrong about most things. < 1311130025 113698 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1311130025 719342 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1311130030 652401 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he's always right what do you mean < 1311130038 541067 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do not remove my ovaries with a pear knife < 1311130046 986759 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311130080 100434 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :is swearing allowed or is this place family-friendly < 1311130083 70902 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :by that I mean adult-hostile :p < 1311130097 263720 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "fuck off and die in a fire" is farily common here, so. :) < 1311130100 907734 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, fairly. < 1311130101 127901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im children < 1311130105 146099 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311130118 688830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is? < 1311130120 471304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe from you < 1311130124 211302 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, watch out for elliott he seems to linger 501 feet outside a playground a lot... < 1311130124 628413 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311130125 740502 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mostly me, yes. < 1311130138 305839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Elizacat killed my family < 1311130139 809715 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quick to express nonexistence rage. < 1311130143 495675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an orphan now < 1311130144 808200 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had it coming < 1311130148 401486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i linger outside the playground < 1311130149 200463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1311130150 323745 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existent, even. < 1311130151 157532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody will accept me < 1311130152 144281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311130158 385596 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeeze, I swear. I can't spell worth shit today. < 1311130163 927599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curls into fetal position; cries self to sleep.
< 1311130164 264896 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like playgrounds < 1311130200 349437 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1311130203 541625 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for not talking enough < 1311130208 860008 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in talking unless I really have something to say < 1311130209 384217 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311130229 733717 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone can ping me when fizzie is around, I'd like to speak to him about mcmap :p < 1311130248 120870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: Like I said, just ask me :P < 1311130250 328850 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a strange crash, I think it's related to multi-block updates < 1311130252 622336 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1311130256 934027 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it segfaults in different places each time < 1311130257 944339 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :*segfaults < 1311130277 514465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using latest git commit? (Vorpal's update patch is OK; it touches none of that stuff.) < 1311130284 325162 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311130290 660320 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :same version Vorpal does. < 1311130292 261785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of weird behaviour mostly at high altitudes, but it's never segfaulted for me recently. < 1311130299 846776 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it usually happens with //regen < 1311130301 376577 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1311130304 724235 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 100% reproduceable < 1311130310 569209 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't pinpoint why < 1311130316 337902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck does //regen do? That's not an mcmap command < 1311130319 93002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait, WorldEdit < 1311130328 510728 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :worldedit yes < 1311130328 788309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone needs to tell WorldEdit to stop stealing our command prefix back in time < 1311130342 611694 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go tell sk89q < 1311130347 885135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THX < 1311130352 746373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get Lymee to as well < 1311130355 347221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't fail < 1311130372 975513 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use /// < 1311130376 725418 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or >///< < 1311130388 949537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :///////////////////// < 1311130422 413857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: Anyway, I'm not so hot on the protocol side of things, but is there such a thing as a multi-block update? I thought there was just "single block update" and "whoops lol I replaced an entire chunk here you go". < 1311130450 460280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal always gets about ten times more crashes and weird behaviour with mcmap than anyone else, though; you could try cutting all ties with him and see if that helps. < 1311130473 841125 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\\\\\\ < 1311130481 15705 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. < 1311130481 292598 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Switching to Thread 0x7ffff3eb5700 (LWP 31277)] < 1311130481 490514 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00007ffff6af6a50 in ?? () from /lib/libc.so.6 < 1311130500 897719 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311130509 606288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: Well that's not helpful :P < 1311130512 832776 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311130513 330807 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311130517 781871 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bt is not helpful at all < 1311130520 185644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it means we're passing invalid data to libc, I guess < 1311130527 752003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: You have got a debug build right? < 1311130532 33245 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /\\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\//\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ < 1311130532 510448 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// < 1311130550 237505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: make debug=1 < 1311130554 804378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then build-debug/mcmap < 1311130631 667320 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/M12qLcrr < 1311130675 609160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more helpful < 1311130677 409627 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311130679 621853 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :memcpy < 1311130692 483378 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :memcpy(&c->blocks[CHUNK_XOFF(x)][CHUNK_ZOFF(z)][y0], zb, yupds); < 1311130692 681510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memcpy(&c->blocks[CHUNK_XOFF(x)][CHUNK_ZOFF(z)][y0], zb, yupds); < 1311130693 808230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line in question < 1311130694 502978 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks suspect < 1311130695 824289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap < 1311130714 827435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311130854 586902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : c = 0x73a730 < 1311130857 709586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helpful, gdb, helpful < 1311130920 771609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : z = 10016 < 1311130921 157813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = 10000 < 1311130926 416577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those look kind of suspect, unless you actually are that far out < 1311130981 894252 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1311131016 944457 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201101/err/death.png < 1311131026 391222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: You could printf-debug above the memcpy printing &c->blocks[CHUNK_XOFF(x)][CHUNK_ZOFF(z)][y0], zb and yupds < 1311131036 138855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe one of them is NULL or something easy like that :-) < 1311131370 800355 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:09:16 [DEBUG] CHUNK_XOFF(x) CHUNK_XOFF(z) y0 yupds 0 0 0 -126 < 1311131370 998200 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1311131371 196227 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. < 1311131388 291012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well -126... is not right. < 1311131427 585498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CHUNK_XOFF(coord) ((coord) & (CHUNK_XSIZE-1)) < 1311131427 862809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CHUNK_ZOFF(coord) ((coord) & (CHUNK_ZSIZE-1)) < 1311131440 764699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmm < 1311131450 895939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to blame this on some sort of overflow, but that's just my excuse for not really knowing :) < 1311131510 490133 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are fine < 1311131518 3031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1311131518 461266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311131522 9975 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's the chunk beneath me < 1311131524 166786 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :the offset is correct < 1311131527 135381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1311131527 495802 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yupds is not correct < 1311131532 304120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed :) < 1311131549 275437 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the fuck jint is though < 1311131553 126944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: java int < 1311131555 558510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just thirty-two bit int < 1311131556 775219 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311131557 647681 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311131558 785841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : jint yupds = ys; < 1311131559 23037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (y0 > CHUNK_YSIZE) < 1311131559 23239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : stopf("too high chunk update: %d..%d", y0, y0+ys-1); < 1311131559 23344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if (y0 + ys > CHUNK_YSIZE) < 1311131559 23451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : yupds = CHUNK_YSIZE - y0; < 1311131561 439749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311131566 642157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well CHUNK_YSIZE obviously isn't wrong < 1311131575 376855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... y0 must be wrong < 1311131581 619095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that entire logic, but it works most of the time so probably not < 1311131599 116850 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:09:04 [DEBUG] CHUNK_XOFF(x) CHUNK_XOFF(z) y0 yupds 15 14 0 128 < 1311131599 395315 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:09:04 [DEBUG] CHUNK_XOFF(x) CHUNK_XOFF(z) y0 yupds 15 15 0 128 < 1311131602 738377 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :here are some samples :) < 1311131610 204513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1311131614 474019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So y0 is zero every time < 1311131621 266945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: Can you print ys too? < 1311131634 853108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a suspicion that < 1311131635 51592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if (y0 + ys > CHUNK_YSIZE) < 1311131635 698890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is false < 1311131639 280121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yupds is just getting set to ys < 1311131640 658260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is negative < 1311131660 593655 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ys though < 1311131668 490524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows < 1311131674 956155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably wrong though, that's what's important :-) < 1311131781 185581 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : p = &packet->bytes[packet->field_offset[6]]; < 1311131781 462922 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : handle_chunk(packet_int(packet, 0), packet_int(packet, 1), packet_int(packet, 2), < 1311131781 660951 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : packet_int(packet, 3)+1, packet_int(packet, 4)+1, packet_int(packet, 5)+1, < 1311131781 661060 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : (p[0] << 24) | (p[1] << 16) | (p[2] << 8) | p[3], &p[4]); < 1311131783 162958 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm. < 1311131791 6509 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311131792 601854 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :something looks suspect here < 1311131815 556614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still fairly certain that ys is the only thing that could be wrong < 1311131820 770348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which probably means one of two things: < 1311131827 651718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Notch is incompetent as ever, fucked something up, we have to work around it < 1311131831 983829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- We're interpreting the protocol wrongly < 1311131934 390619 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA < 1311131935 455049 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's size < 1311131942 22181 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :worldedit is sending invalid size < 1311131949 56100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: See, I knew it was somebody else's fault < 1311131951 935713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: I blame you < 1311131954 608729 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol#Map_Chunk_.280x33.29 < 1311131970 475769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311131985 420162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: Oh well, simple fix: bail out of handle_chunk if the size is invalid < 1311131991 247534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll cause it not to update the chunk, but what can you really do? < 1311131997 256290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does WorldEdit always update the entire hcunk < 1311131997 958919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chunk < 1311132004 271694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case we can detect WorldEdit's invalid value and set it to the entire chunk size < 1311132091 950265 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311132114 979529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll hopefully see about getting Vorpal's patched merged in soon < 1311132122 133158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in ten years when I finish the Scheme integration < 1311132123 799716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311132158 481331 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311132172 726565 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:22:41 [DEBUG] sx sy sz 16 -126 16 < 1311132189 851343 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :then crash < 1311132190 327115 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1311132191 22369 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311132191 556862 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311132194 550967 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311132196 103126 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sending invalid sizes. < 1311132213 275120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (sy < 0) { log_print("sk89q sucks"); sy = 127; } < 1311132219 508864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official patch :-P < 1311132346 362677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, either WorldEdit or CraftBukkit needs fixing < 1311132362 534677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If the latter, almost certainly the Minecraft server itself, but what good does reporting bugs to Mojang achieve?) < 1311132429 780626 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that workaround doesn't seem to work properly < 1311132431 540550 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just clobbers it < 1311132435 573703 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the official notch client does < 1311132446 723747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clobbers it how? < 1311132450 393777 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1311132453 196516 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chunk looks all fucked up < 1311132456 499922 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the map < 1311132459 203960 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :after regen < 1311132467 424779 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe abs() is the right thing to do < 1311132467 702413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, try if (sy < 0) { log_print("sk89q sucks"); sy = 126; } < 1311132473 556029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that works, then yeah, try abs < 1311132491 469954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to just say "return;" until WorldEdit or whatever is fixed but that doesn't really help :) < 1311132548 456148 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm still trashed < 1311132550 965956 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it doesn't help < 1311132556 632250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just drop it < 1311132718 887702 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I could re-request the chunk, I think < 1311132724 108135 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure how to go about that < 1311132730 291107 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure if that's wise, but that could be a workaround < 1311132738 692766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: I don't think you can < 1311132745 128172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server decides when you be needin' dem chunks < 1311132893 153956 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd be really curious asto how the notchian server behaves in this regard < 1311132904 546720 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/server/client/ < 1311132908 278796 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1311132911 684945 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the client doesn't crash :) < 1311132914 159231 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311132918 172805 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're doing something different from them, clearly < 1311132935 672111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it seems to handle every situation, including the impossible-to-handle situation where the server sends a truncated chunk due to Notch thinking that compression can never enlarge data < 1311132946 711837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only assume it asks Notch himself what it has to do < 1311132959 266491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patented brain-in-a-digital-jar technology < 1311133129 74841 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/sk89q/worldedit/blob/master/src/main/java/com/sk89q/worldedit/bukkit/BukkitWorld.java < 1311133130 451400 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311133186 62224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION idly considers porting mcmap to another language again.
< 1311133190 895244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, one without segfaults. < 1311133239 771694 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to remain silent on the issue < 1311133240 481889 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311133245 890844 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just say C is a reasonable compromise < 1311133261 83323 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it sucks, but it's the only thing anyone can agree on < 1311133271 404201 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language of choice is not up for debate here :) < 1311133277 651294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never addressed you :) < 1311133282 896466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably just port it to Haskell and quarter the line count < 1311133294 942773 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reduce your dev pool by about 90% :P < 1311133302 983589 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing about C is it's accessible < 1311133307 547747 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if yes, it blows < 1311133310 849048 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311133329 610264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dev pool is already two people < 1311133341 768700 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, port it to Java and quadruple the line count and add a bunch of useless shite to it and increase RAM use tenfold and leak but < 1311133346 576896 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey, it's OO now!!11111 < 1311133347 713550 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG < 1311133351 642302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Accessible" seems ill-defined; I would say that a majority of mcmap's users have some experience with Haskell :-P < 1311133391 80793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, certainly more people know C; I'm not sure a random open source project in Haskell is likely to get any fewer developers than one in C, though; Haskell might actually be "hipper" < 1311133429 347284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The chances of me actually bothering to port it are insanely low, mind you :P < 1311133455 212470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is annoying how hard most of the bugs are to track down and then they turn out to be stupid low-level stuff < 1311133511 641505 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is mostly for hippies and CS students < 1311133512 355155 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311133520 191394 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm neither of those, though you wouldn't know by how well I'm kept < 1311133520 905825 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311133553 120003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also CS graduates; also people who have been bitten too many times by the bugs and lack of high-level abstraction that imperative languages have :p < 1311133565 317864 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"when was the last time you had a haircut Elizabeth?" "when did the columbia blow up... '03? yeah about then" < 1311133565 885647 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311133592 954818 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm no functional language monkey < 1311133597 996080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am :D < 1311133601 981699 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm no CS student. I'm just a biologist who does this in her spare time < 1311133614 785034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I RESERVE THE TERM "MONKEY" FOR INFERIOR LIFE-FORMS SUCH AS PYTHON CODERS THANK YOU VERY MUCH. < 1311133626 836195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :biologists who program tend to program more awesomely than other people who program, IME < 1311133628 741975 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mumbles
< 1311133641 591671 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, let's just agree that ruby sucks :D < 1311133646 781000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Physicists on the other hand... (Isn't it physicists?) < 1311133655 129564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: Dunno, if Python is in the race... < 1311133655 370469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know < 1311133656 790770 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :physicists :p < 1311133687 826934 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about doing CS < 1311133689 449502 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *cough* < 1311133690 99183 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but honestly < 1311133691 378675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't to be in #esoteric without your taste in languages mercilessly deconstructed >:) < 1311133692 17986 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern CS is crap < 1311133697 566850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Whu < 1311133704 184572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: I teach in a CS department, and at the undergraduate level, I think I agree with you < 1311133707 737005 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, if I had to live in that cesspit any longer < 1311133711 337551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: They went downhill after they started releasing their lectures on CD < 1311133712 261015 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just shoot myself < 1311133713 823820 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I went to bio < 1311133714 249575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vinyl all the way, baby < 1311133717 963409 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have never regretted it :) < 1311133719 926437 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit of a Python fan >.> < 1311133725 292534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION one true CS gangsta
< 1311133726 661330 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, o/\o < 1311133738 880337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Quiet the adults are talking. < 1311133740 164255 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hifive, bro/sisfist etc.
< 1311133789 657567 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey is this a lajgauage war < 1311133809 191693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes its a lajgauage war < 1311133815 162249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the finest lajgauages will survive < 1311133827 681815 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna get my mind out of the gutter brb < 1311133832 660733 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread "lajgauge" < 1311133833 170356 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311133852 93292 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously don't ask >.<) < 1311133853 865644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you didn't misread it as something as dirty as "language" < 1311133861 862986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid we'd have to ban you < 1311133867 951564 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lajgauages" was misread as something very naughty < 1311133868 661505 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311133894 358043 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :well when you hang out with men all day and the primary joke is "that's what she said *looks at Elizabeth*" < 1311133895 340660 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311133898 281341 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a functional lajgauge monkey too. a functional lajgauge monqy. < 1311133910 938566 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives monqy banans
< 1311133913 511537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucantoinsal < 1311133918 289924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuacnoiewatsdjkslfghv < 1311133922 291544 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just gonna leave that accidental typo :p < 1311133924 166732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck no IE wat sdjkslfghv < 1311133930 349546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a biography < 1311133946 571809 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : fucantoinsal < 1311133949 840768 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :run for US president < 1311133950 995011 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll win < 1311133955 221598 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :they elected bush 1 1/2 times < 1311133973 762212 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean with words like that < 1311133983 354505 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not a native citizen. < 1311133989 466391 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can fix that < 1311133991 918505 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets a pen
< 1311134011 730567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President" < 1311134012 301162 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes "elliott, native US citizen, signed me"
< 1311134014 9036 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has friend write
< 1311134020 506965 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh yeah she's definitely telling the truth. Definitely legit" < 1311134023 480393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i wasn't an american citizen at the time of the adoption of the constitution < 1311134028 983358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant be president :( < 1311134033 197323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obambmb must be rely old < 1311134034 969041 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He'll have to follow Schwarzenneger. < 1311134065 193892 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :the governator? < 1311134075 631753 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1311134079 285592 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear it's sperminator these days < 1311134081 440079 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the asshat who fucked up California because the so-called liberal people of that fine state elected a dickwad like him 'cause he's famous? < 1311134082 893957 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean hi < 1311134083 320945 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311134104 443200 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he could run for president I bet he'd win tho < 1311134115 270444 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: The reason I'm saying him is just that he'd be the most likely impetus for a repeal of that clause of the constitution. < 1311134116 548852 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :they voted for reagan, and he was an asshat, so surely the terminator has a good shot. < 1311134120 506191 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I like him. < 1311134121 553222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that cartoon ever come out < 1311134122 197090 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :D < 1311134126 635927 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah :p < 1311134127 370842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOoooooOOOOOoooOOOOoooOOOooOOOOOOooooooo its on hold < 1311134131 611199 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is US expat
< 1311134134 512242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to cry myself to death and punch everyone in here to death < 1311134139 601706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you all ruined the world < 1311134140 283675 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hot < 1311134143 193947 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is US citizen & resident
< 1311134144 830176 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :me first < 1311134155 74860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hours after Arnold Schwarzenegger announced he's halting his acting career, TMZ reported that his animated The Governator series is on indefinite hold. < 1311134155 276772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In light of recent events, A Squared Entertainment, POW, Stan Lee Comics and Archie Comics have chosen to not go forward with the Governator project," a rep told the website." < 1311134157 955956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally suicide forever < 1311134159 461783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1311134162 593849 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I left the US for political reasons :p < 1311134171 11608 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also: left < 1311134171 405728 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311134176 310080 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :first two words sum it up :D < 1311134177 452837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i left the us because i had teleported there by way of pure impossible quantum < 1311134196 174114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pureimpossiblequnatbm.com < 1311134197 455224 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well you sound some sort of European < 1311134201 966562 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: It's rapidly getting to the point where you'll be leaving the US for the ability to have a standard of living *at all*. < 1311134206 228398 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gonna venture a guess you're either british or scandinavian < 1311134208 606079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do only european know about quantum < 1311134212 996463 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally left the us too guys < 1311134214 422307 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they have the LHC < 1311134214 623715 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311134216 392456 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good guess, BTW. < 1311134220 355507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott isn't a very scandinavian name is it < 1311134223 815349 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah < 1311134230 646461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare "vorpal" very scandinavian name < 1311134232 675014 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know a girl in sweden by the name of Elliott < 1311134233 803010 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :she is like < 1311134239 794455 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's a girl's name I'm telling you" < 1311134241 14717 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am like < 1311134245 852313 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what are you on and I want some" < 1311134285 355155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Although the given name was historically given to males, females named Elliott have seen an increase in recent years.[when?][citation needed]" < 1311134286 340060 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal olson < 1311134288 616173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your friend edits wikipedia < 1311134303 183671 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Vorpal's real name is not Vorpal obv :p < 1311134308 341324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1311134311 198307 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GASP* < 1311134311 625943 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not telling his real name! I know it though. < 1311134312 354960 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311134317 547123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does everyone else < 1311134320 167580 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, let's just say his name is very swedish < 1311134323 305364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An "Arvid" Master "Norlander" < 1311134326 545825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Vorpal" < 1311134328 13639 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh :P < 1311134329 863831 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster < 1311134331 786362 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :you knew him < 1311134331 987850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's his full name < 1311134332 658996 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311134336 11304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An "Arvid" Master "Norlander" "Vorpal" < 1311134336 212969 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster always bugged me < 1311134338 547949 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always wanted to say < 1311134339 616317 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMaster < 1311134340 18340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: i brought him here >_> < 1311134340 219479 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311134342 685329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(INADVERTENTLY) < 1311134348 279445 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll bring YOU here if you get my drift < 1311134351 5529 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except not really) < 1311134360 665842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont want a drift its nice and warm in here.......... < 1311134366 895071 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a draft < 1311134368 144374 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a drift < 1311134371 600808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.............. < 1311134375 434025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311134388 495207 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its too warm in here < 1311134390 757775 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drift please < 1311134399 490052 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turns down the thermostat
< 1311134404 783597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: give monqy some drift so he can catch it < 1311134407 630051 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0K" < 1311134409 769133 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems cold enough to me < 1311134429 339007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im all the kelvins < 1311134430 294670 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: So, what, if anything, was it that finally made you get up and leave the US, anyways? < 1311134433 317304 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: a snow drift in the room would make it chilly < 1311134441 454275 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "I left the US" - see first two words < 1311134442 22287 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coolvins < 1311134455 204864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: terrible unforgivable puns are restricted to oerjan. < 1311134456 962843 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :usa makes my head hurt and i hope the rest of the world is better < 1311134463 956956 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Americans do not really... appreciate... European-style socialists. < 1311134465 29071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. you will have to get a license (no license applications are accepted) < 1311134468 715268 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: Ah, so not a specific event, just "The right-wing is nuts". < 1311134470 957319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cease and desist cease and desist < 1311134471 527550 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311134472 272063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cease and desist cease and desist < 1311134473 350534 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1311134474 477031 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And the 'left-wing' isn't." < 1311134477 116866 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also the country is going to shit. < 1311134481 287420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also cease and desist < 1311134486 435761 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh not I'm crazy I'm just not "kill the gays" crazy < 1311134487 956674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he;lp they arent cesing nad desting < 1311134490 463837 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. It's been pretty obvious for the past 10 years or so. < 1311134499 836520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: use your wiki admin powers < 1311134518 381084 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well be careful so they don't dest _your_ 'nads < 1311134531 313937 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And utterly *astounding* the past 4 years. < 1311134537 193625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok < 1311134543 839005 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, everyone blames the black dude for it < 1311134546 760498 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, stupid morons < 1311134556 963029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :black people,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, are all dead,,, in the future < 1311134559 594611 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like every single bad financial decision made in the past 30-40 years hit at once. < 1311134564 708420 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1311134566 705841 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :reagan started it < 1311134566 989306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm remarkably coherent today! < 1311134569 950560 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :bush really put the nail in the coffin < 1311134571 997800 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :obama isn't helping < 1311134579 692768 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah :D < 1311134582 31685 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me glad I'm not there < 1311134594 885300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :contaroversila opinion: bushc was a bad persident!!! < 1311134603 96798 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me wish I could freaking finish college. < 1311134609 181407 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone agrees on that due to his shit ability to publicly speak < 1311134609 383344 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not true...fdr started it, carter added to it, and then everyone else just added their little chunk < 1311134613 699298 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost typed pubicly speak < 1311134615 688888 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I realised < 1311134618 422006 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to stay in usa for a few more years at least. this upsets me. < 1311134620 320975 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be accurate too < 1311134661 889803 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, FDR wasn't so bad, tbh, although him dragging the US into WWII was kinda ehhh... it did kick off the whole "huge military-industrial complex" crap < 1311134665 555323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how was an zepto master born in unzepto country... < 1311134668 170887 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I can see the US reasons for doing so < 1311134669 13671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is.... mystery of ages < 1311134671 483447 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's better that they did < 1311134675 913817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us pray now to zepto /pray < 1311134676 994334 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the cold war bullshit < 1311134678 420703 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311134679 97701 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Uh, Reagan's to blame for the top tax rate being below 70%. (far, far below). ;) < 1311134721 460563 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm everyone always gets in my face about higher tax rates in Europe, but the reality is the poor pay far less tax in Europe than they do in America < 1311134724 495351 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but there were plenty of tax exemptions in existence before reagan. the upper crust have never been hurting in the us < 1311134725 918466 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people only pay the VAT if they are poor < 1311134729 290961 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is explained by how true mastery of zepto requires suffering < 1311134731 319861 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in some countries you can get a VAT refund < 1311134735 38747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh < 1311134741 309983 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bush gets a lot of blame for taking Clinton's slight budget surplus and running it into this shit. < 1311134744 591149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: makes sense < 1311134747 554878 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah < 1311134750 42088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but the pure state of zepto is unsuffering itself..... < 1311134756 131832 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, though Clinton was a neolib, truthfully not a fan of him either! < 1311134765 637845 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and DMCA = unforgivable in my book < 1311134774 521095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clangton < 1311134776 316717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was a clanger < 1311134777 517629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(secretly) < 1311134781 415171 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1311134787 688118 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god dmca :( < 1311134788 766947 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: One needn't be a fan to admit that he did better financially than any Republican has in the past 50 years. :P < 1311134790 809214 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get why America gave a shit who he was having oral sex with < 1311134791 378681 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1311134792 180424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is an Elizacat what you get if you cat ELIZA into itself, so it keeps responding to its own comments? < 1311134795 152799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's alway hilarious < 1311134795 437679 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it anyone's business < 1311134798 7137 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go out and give a blowjob < 1311134800 219611 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't fucking make the news < 1311134805 301389 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the president gets one, the one who did it does! < 1311134806 885505 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: slow news month < 1311134807 455239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not trying hard enough < 1311134825 464616 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Republicans are utterly *amazing* at setting a media narrative. < 1311134832 242432 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, haha < 1311134837 57053 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, oh god I can see the headlines now < 1311134841 595588 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, actually it sounds like an Onion headline < 1311134847 924023 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scottish woman gives her boyfriend a blowjob" < 1311134856 902369 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexism < 1311134857 103908 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexism < 1311134857 473938 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexism < 1311134862 938011 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"boyfriend: I did not have sexual relations with that woman" < 1311134863 506415 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311134864 253665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zepting < 1311134881 695984 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, they are < 1311134893 263665 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, though, I see America is fed up with both by their rapid cycling crap < 1311134918 99330 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: lemme check my onion archives. ig may have happened. < 1311134918 300848 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I mean, if they hate both parties, pray tell, why do they keep electing them? < 1311134921 448546 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they expect change? < 1311134923 154021 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, haha < 1311134924 809438 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, awesome < 1311134937 462365 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing most screwing us, though, is that we act like the prosperity we had since WWII was because we did something right. < 1311134942 986322 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can tell you why they continue to elect them < 1311134953 906769 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its because people dont vote for losers < 1311134959 191652 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing we "did" right was not have our industry razed to the ground along with the rest of the world. < 1311134963 660740 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, we only have it because of bullying everyone else < 1311134967 794974 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone knows only one of the two big parties can win < 1311134972 627495 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, essentially yes < 1311134980 626884 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very, very easy to prosper when everyone else is in a few decades of economic recovery from WWII. < 1311134989 318034 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, they could change things but they are too stupid to realise that :) < 1311134996 105554 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it's as simple as voting "not republican or democrat" < 1311134996 961460 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1311134998 322961 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda fear < 1311135001 876312 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they would actually vote for... < 1311135004 21658 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably libertarian < 1311135007 736976 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am not a fan of the libertarians < 1311135014 184319 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :because don't you know, everyone on welfare is a lazy slob < 1311135034 96144 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think they are so bad as far as policy goes. < 1311135040 330252 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :welfare abuse happens but for god's sake it's onlyt he norm in America due to the lack of ANY sort of auditing due to slashing the welfare budget. Idiots. < 1311135043 977749 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen the written platform < 1311135044 323045 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: They're certainly *less* bad. < 1311135055 542326 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: At least they don't give a fuck about what happens in people's bedrooms. < 1311135057 541021 :Arkanhell27!~ircap@186.104.238.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311135063 224097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is Arkanhell27 < 1311135065 402814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they a ghost < 1311135069 139376 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Arkanhell27 < 1311135086 177163 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :welfare abuse doesnt happen *much* here. it's very low level compared to where it once was < 1311135094 258659 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaeh < 1311135095 260653 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah < 1311135097 532682 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :audits fix that < 1311135099 467977 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311135104 18915 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US is also quite astoundingly high in income inequality... < 1311135106 489884 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :America is too stupidt o realise that < 1311135107 966891 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah < 1311135112 779079 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is because the rich pay no tax < 1311135120 280214 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, despite what the republicans will tell you < 1311135121 809051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you don't have an explanation for something, blame it on people being stupid < 1311135123 141193 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near the top, in fact. < 1311135136 344932 :Arkanhell27!~ircap@186.104.238.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311135146 919023 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid people made me who i am today. this distresses me. < 1311135148 868030 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *the top* for developed countries. < 1311135154 488600 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity < 1311135155 813464 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stupidity < 1311135164 936895 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, America is a developed country...? < 1311135165 138620 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "developed"; honestly, our infrastructure will probably fall apart if you look at it wrong. < 1311135166 166458 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to dispute that america's prosperity since ww2 is entirely because infrastructure remained in place < 1311135178 222852 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, last time I was in Florida I saw people living in tin shacks < 1311135181 153596 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Not entirely, but that had a hell of a lot to do with it. < 1311135187 591155 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I couldn't help but wonder how that shit can happen in a first-world country < 1311135201 865165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto < 1311135205 193587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my contribution < 1311135206 947567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also monqy's < 1311135210 370492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine too < 1311135213 761287 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Obviously, that doesn't help you if your infrastructure is utterly *awful*. < 1311135220 692514 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, large military to back it up + large infrastructure < 1311135224 510891 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, but we're coming on an interesting point < 1311135228 995283 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((zepto )S:^):^ < 1311135229 196584 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto zepto ...too much output! < 1311135230 847018 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, America is trying to reinvent itself as a huge "services country" < 1311135241 384483 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a large part of it was an increased focus on r+d pretty much across the board, even in private industry, and also with the previous half century's heavy importing of the world's brightest minds wherever possible < 1311135243 443336 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, which is why it has VERY strong IP law now < 1311135261 775438 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, the folly in this though is that the government is saddled with debt and the currency is collapsing < 1311135270 738832 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't help when few people can actually get into these jobs < 1311135271 389349 :Arkanhell27!~ircap@186.104.238.251 PART :#esoteric < 1311135279 634583 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look what youve done < 1311135291 63315 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :r.i.p. arkanhell27 "a hood guy" < 1311135293 168321 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives monqy a scone
< 1311135293 777134 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good guy, sorry < 1311135305 281420 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h is just so close to g you see < 1311135306 54011 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: But now we don't have *any* of that. < 1311135307 62625 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's hope it was a satanist or something < 1311135313 291899 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Pretty much all we have is inertia. < 1311135321 696898 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hey now I used to be pagan! < 1311135328 452875 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, for certain values of pagan yes but still < 1311135334 636771 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no worries tho. at least our children are getting world class educations! < 1311135340 782188 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, haha < 1311135341 842702 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311135345 17825 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hahahahah*. < 1311135350 517763 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: yeah but that's not why you came to this channel i assume < 1311135350 993526 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :America's education is being privatised < 1311135352 191861 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :in front of us < 1311135354 339647 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1311135358 477951 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that is what is happening < 1311135363 696924 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why there is so much emphasis on going to university now < 1311135365 180251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pagans are hilarious < 1311135369 298703 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :because primary and secondary education blows < 1311135374 174987 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now even our colleges are starting to decline in quality. < 1311135375 220270 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I said ex pagan < 1311135382 560950 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I grew out of the whole pagan phase when I was 15 :p < 1311135404 727283 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, because tuition is so high and nobody can afford to fucking go? < 1311135408 444376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does any pagan not grow out of the whole pagan phase when they're fifteen < 1311135420 945605 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I mean people in the UK bitched about the tuition hike to £9000 and that's still half of what you'll pay at a decent US uni < 1311135434 590963 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, unless you're poor/ghetto and go to a community college < 1311135447 605392 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: half? hahahahahahaha < 1311135451 209377 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but few people can really advance beyond that without owing the government thousands of $$$ in debt which will stalk them for life < 1311135454 368679 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to laws designed to lock it in < 1311135454 914151 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: And our colleges also are focused on giving you what amounts to a more expensive high school diploma. < 1311135461 318002 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, probably less than half. < 1311135461 889871 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311135469 922758 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, that's about $12k USD or so < 1311135474 430720 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :try a third to a fifth, depending on whether its a public or private university < 1311135483 792424 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: That's a semester at some schools. < 1311135495 943861 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311135497 49321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so ante-zepto... < 1311135506 440795 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : does any pagan not grow out of the whole pagan phase when they're fifteen < 1311135513 106096 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are *screwed*. < 1311135523 889258 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my boyfriend is wiccan for certain values of wiccan so... < 1311135524 318093 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311135532 637783 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not that it matters to me as I'm not a bigot < 1311135539 172192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's fourteen? ;D < 1311135543 29830 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he's 24 < 1311135543 735895 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite honestly, my only hope is to graduate soon and hope that US degrees still have *some* standing whilst trying to leave the country. < 1311135555 471816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my twos can look line ones sometime :P < 1311135558 559628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1311135574 649203 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more the philosophy he's into than the actual pagan nature itself < 1311135575 764783 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean < 1311135579 935163 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares what someone else's religion is :D < 1311135580 993581 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1311135583 243419 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I left the US < 1311135609 609639 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys im back from being away what did i miss < 1311135610 572056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way you might care what someone's political beliefs are? anything that forms the underlying fabric of someone's beliefs is something to be interested in, surely < 1311135611 23211 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, go to norway! well, actually I would be careful... < 1311135622 368172 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, norway's economy is swimming in money due to oil, but that's only got another 30 years... < 1311135641 177816 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would go to norway right now, but be prepared to move out in 30 years. < 1311135647 966646 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I like scotland, very nice. < 1311135648 536062 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: Norway's also Schengen, making leaving fairly easy. < 1311135651 884425 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and politically ok right now < 1311135657 153201 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not great or shitting unicorns, but it's ok < 1311135657 958333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: literally nothing < 1311135661 351404 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative to the rest of the UK at least < 1311135664 258732 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah < 1311135676 195092 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and nordic union :D < 1311135693 786385 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, honestly i think the only country aligned with myself politically is Iceland, more or less, but well... their economy is kinda shit. < 1311135694 496800 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1311135695 239329 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1311135702 849760 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats politics < 1311135704 973971 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you expect with a country with less than 400k people... < 1311135705 541642 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311135709 960366 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :: my opinion < 1311135715 627268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: monaco's economy isn't too bad i gather < 1311135715 912074 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives monqy another scone
< 1311135730 714336 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you're a rich hipster it's a great plcae to live < 1311135731 626627 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :*place < 1311135738 493541 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I don't fancy that :p < 1311135750 495326 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid Italy btw, it's very catholic. unless you don't mind that sort of thing. < 1311135752 346254 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311135754 196725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: re what do you expect with a country with less than 400k people... < 1311135770 737715 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they have about a million people I think < 1311135776 382429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah :P < 1311135803 726003 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311135804 954316 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :35k < 1311135805 777982 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1311135808 167095 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monaco boasts the world's highest GDP nominal per capita at $215,163 and is the most densely populated country in the world. Monaco also has the world's highest life expectancy at almost 90 years, and the lowest unemployment rate < 1311135808 593614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1311135809 790441 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this means < 1311135814 569104 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will be living with a bunch of rich assholes < 1311135815 878554 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds nice. < 1311135818 660233 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :except not really < 1311135821 425752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's RWS again? ReaderT WriterT State? < 1311135844 348657 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah basically < 1311135864 723907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should go to bed soon like a normal person < 1311135872 106061 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You lie. < 1311135875 746420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311135904 897495 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is RWS any good < 1311135945 382333 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: presumably it diminishes overhead when you have all those monads to combine < 1311136168 584735 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining monads, that sounds really hot < 1311136183 340334 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna come back to my place and combine moands with me? :) < 1311136196 427664 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I gotta admit I'm not very functional < 1311136197 670 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311136210 519896 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has now reached quota for puns for the month
< 1311136224 769202 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two first panels of today's xkcd ironically describes how haskell was made < 1311136302 839618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: borrow some from oerjan, he has an unlimited pun quota < 1311136316 680774 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, won't that cost money < 1311136322 793156 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1311136330 599605 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1311136334 115419 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311136339 544255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, :( < 1311136345 689203 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could steal them < 1311136349 246097 :ralc!~ralc@dhcp233.akk.k-net.dk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311136349 671117 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1311136351 775498 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/them/some of it/ < 1311136367 491777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how to avoid ST's additional type argument, a short guide: < 1311136369 956610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- use IO instead < 1311136379 698707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who here's used Agda, btw? my new coworker has apparently been implementing it in Epic < 1311136392 680919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've sort of used it < 1311136401 650224 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :skewness < 1311136414 598198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is your coworker Edwin Brady? < 1311136417 570720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple parser written in Agda took, with the impl, well over an hour to parse an expression with six operands and five operators, all of which were numbers or arithmetic respectively (with single-character names) < 1311136419 877236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1311136437 777697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda is very slow :) < 1311136456 14823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runGen :: Gen a -> IO a < 1311136456 298435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runGen = unsafePerformIO . unGen < 1311136456 500130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I've avoided the type argument < 1311136460 238529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this may actually be unsafe, cool < 1311136475 912627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the more traditional compiler took only a couple of seconds to run the code, but over an hour to compile it < 1311136477 807809 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was #esoteric not #functional < 1311136478 683026 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks
< 1311136490 592226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's #everyoneinhere < 1311136493 109451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: well, we look at existing languages to inspire our own < 1311136500 911201 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :noddle :p < 1311136501 553994 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also look at gay sex < 1311136503 385969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just so happens that all of us are functional programmers because FUNCTIONAL LANGUAGE RULE WOOOOOOOO < 1311136506 201929 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not much of a functional language monkey < 1311136515 535540 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, male or female or shemale on shemale < 1311136517 789444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you keep saying it enough it becomes true Elizacat < 1311136539 290470 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should i know im just a monqy < 1311136541 883691 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will have a million quid by the end of the month < 1311136550 820257 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thanks I will now keep saying this. < 1311136554 919692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think knowing a couple of functional languages is important to be able to design languages well yourself, or at least compilers < 1311136564 690087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if the language itself isn't functional < 1311136581 112351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :move < 1311136581 313806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: (R inp1 a1, < 1311136581 515593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : R inp2 a2, < 1311136581 515771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : R inp a, < 1311136581 515874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : RW out2 a2, < 1311136582 357071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : RW out a, < 1311136583 357573 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you said you look at gay sex I was asking for what kind < 1311136584 73798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : RW out1 a1) => < 1311136586 276683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (out, out1, out2) -> (inp, inp1, inp2) -> Gen () < 1311136588 123725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good types < 1311136615 329617 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, how can you say you look at gay sex all day if you don't even know what kind of gay sex you're looking at! < 1311136616 692522 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: I've mostly only heard rumours but I think it's male???? < 1311136621 358076 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311136623 74863 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hot < 1311136650 380821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hey, you can't derail the conversation with that any more, that meme died out years ago < 1311136654 953984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wasn't particularly interesting even then < 1311136674 475993 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually derail a conversation with a non-sequitor < 1311136678 216897 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat until conversation is derailed < 1311136686 301760 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't here years ago so I'm going to forgive myself on this one < 1311136698 848631 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/openfly/5948018975/lightbox/ < 1311136702 611370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Redsynth.Test> let x = runGen newVar in runGen (writeVar x 9 >> readVar x) :: [Integer] < 1311136702 897075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] < 1311136705 19147 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that neatly describes it < 1311136705 632390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, i broke the type system < 1311136707 630207 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we're ot vim < 1311136708 782898 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :*we're not < 1311136709 208731 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311136716 304113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: emacs < 1311136716 588061 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or $EDITOR < 1311136717 177141 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311136722 91099 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we're not $EDITOR < 1311136731 846506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was ghci, not editing < 1311136743 840037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i know what we are /shakes cane at the weeks-oldie < 1311136791 696285 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will end you < 1311136796 357883 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit(0); < 1311136797 463159 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :like so < 1311136802 735822 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1311136831 209387 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont feel very ended < 1311136867 771323 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, how many scones do I have to feed you < 1311136869 772365 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :god's sake < 1311136871 416422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it means success < 1311136875 934257 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shoves another scone into monqy's mouth
< 1311136884 610264 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am going to get fat stop it < 1311136890 451791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on VMS, contrary to popular opinion < 1311136910 59922 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is a success as long as you are using VMS < 1311136913 38404 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a hollow victory < 1311136919 640515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311136961 890595 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal was right, I do seem to fit in a bit here :P < 1311136983 402443 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not much for functional languages alas, to me it felt like bondage and discipline :P < 1311136987 44645 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is hot, but not in programming < 1311137004 286737 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like esolangs tho :p < 1311137009 570000 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you like < 1311137011 70504 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional < 1311137012 90399 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs < 1311137019 63020 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :p < 1311137027 646648 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I counter with "I am not a maths major" < 1311137029 670182 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311137029 871620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny, python feels more like bondage and discipline < 1311137031 379450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me < 1311137033 51497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about esolangs that aren't functional, but end up being used that way by uncreative people? < 1311137041 93442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. Underload; I'm uncreative, but apparently oerjan isn't) < 1311137046 4558 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of funny :p < 1311137047 552970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :want this control structure? why no you can't have it. Guido doesn't like it. < 1311137050 664876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like Guido, don't you? < 1311137058 501307 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of esolangs don't have for < 1311137059 520821 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noting < 1311137064 814436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. folds? yes. Guido doesn't want you to use that. < 1311137065 571083 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1311137068 724074 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/esolang/functional langs/ < 1311137070 162580 :skewness!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311137074 998772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forM < 1311137075 800212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m [b] < 1311137084 259343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme has for-each too < 1311137084 460534 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said a lot, not all :P < 1311137095 352968 :skewness!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311137096 467368 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311137097 118374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of imperative languages don't have structured control structures at all :) < 1311137099 415337 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :names escape me atm, it's been too long < 1311137107 457715 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1311137108 587436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload has no for < 1311137111 268621 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a biologist who happens to code < 1311137115 214024 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "for" do you mean built-in or what < 1311137115 415760 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311137120 237283 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.s. for sucks < 1311137124 39329 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1311137125 94207 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311137136 873890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but that isn't the point monqy :-P < 1311137140 801320 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :now silence about this nonsense or I shall make you use Java < 1311137154 867735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, mo' typeclass problems < 1311137155 293564 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :may your days be free of downward-fungargs and function pointers < 1311137182 222081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ plebians who don't understand lexical scope < 1311137191 741662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lol @ plebians who use pointers < 1311137195 22253 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those people still exist? < 1311137202 743980 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the not understanging lexical scope ones < 1311137203 336549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, newLISP exists after all < 1311137207 8599 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh newlisp < 1311137207 415416 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside of CS academia I'm afraid! < 1311137210 641188 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I like lisp :x < 1311137212 873424 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm weird < 1311137218 50665 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lisp < 1311137219 798309 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, somewhat like lisp < 1311137222 531199 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1311137228 33936 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used lisp in a while, but I used to use clisp < 1311137243 106595 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the days when I was just a young adolescent, struggling with my sense of identity... < 1311137287 271863 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will point out though that there's nothing wrong with liking esolangs but not liking functional languages, nor is there anything wrong with not wanting to be in the CS cesspit :( < 1311137305 420105 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything wrong < 1311137307 125742 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like buttsex so that probably has something to do with not liking CS as you take it in the ass a lot in that field < 1311137307 371548 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Picolisp doesn't use lexical scoping, but you like it < 1311137321 795559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :picolisp has several zepto properties < 1311137344 246640 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cs is bad in that everyone misses the point ugh < 1311137360 335407 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the point is all I know is that everyone misses it < 1311137402 539287 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1311137403 269187 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should have been a mathematics major < 1311137409 89811 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember what I heard once < 1311137416 671065 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS is just the post-Turing decline in formal systems theory < 1311137417 363729 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311137424 356413 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311137430 755497 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (( )*S:):((What)~^(do)~^(you)~^(mean)~^(no)~^(for)~^)^ < 1311137430 956834 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean no for < 1311137438 242546 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311137442 96129 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311137474 888949 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1311137479 423348 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :my boyfriend is calling < 1311137481 256165 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :ta ta :) < 1311137503 602453 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later. < 1311137509 641234 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :just be thankful I'm not like my bf < 1311137512 129890 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :he likes logo < 1311137512 600339 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311137517 768150 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :he likes turtle graphics :/ < 1311137521 188327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logo is cool < 1311137522 468430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like scheme < 1311137526 139320 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats wrong with logo < 1311137527 981598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it almost is scheme < 1311137528 549344 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-expression Lisp, you mean? < 1311137529 604849 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311137538 885833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: logo is fixed-arity but close enough < 1311137539 380814 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311137567 169977 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think logo may have been my first language < 1311137574 24510 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think part of the reason too I don't like funclangs is because I simply prefer to get things done rather than study about theory all day long :P < 1311137579 28046 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Meh, variable arity isn't all taht essential to Lisp, anyways. < 1311137584 312213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: that's why i never bothered to learn programming < 1311137585 1886 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS theorists think about programming, as for myself, I prefer to do :) < 1311137586 911658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just write BASIC with gotos < 1311137597 93970 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well Vorpal tells me you overengineer :P < 1311137600 353204 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe he was thinking someone else < 1311137608 719469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm shocked and offended :-) < 1311137612 368308 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I"m thinking someone else < 1311137617 47891 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im shocked and offended too < 1311137622 463445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, it is basically just wilful ignorance to say that thinking about programming stops you getting things done. < 1311137625 619669 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, look at goatse < 1311137630 702768 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you'll be even more so < 1311137633 497324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't think, you can't accomplish anything. programming is a science. < 1311137636 43548 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i dont want to < 1311137637 22765 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1311137637 584356 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at < 1311137638 647254 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goatse < 1311137645 630175 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not hip < 1311137664 716136 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sorry it's both an art and science, it transcends both < 1311137672 981079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311137683 542254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, i'm assuming that was a joke at least < 1311137684 112106 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet you dislike functional < 1311137686 965402 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, algorithimic study is a science, I think the languages themselves are more of an art :) < 1311137688 996069 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im shcoekd < 1311137690 465405 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofyneded < 1311137701 255939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does programming have to be both an art and a science < 1311137706 252326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics is science, isn't it beautiful? < 1311137708 723704 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say this as someone who has a disdain for the arts too < 1311137709 292155 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311137712 572419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems well enough just to say that science is art < 1311137721 968711 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311137734 954586 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming relates to language. language relates to literature < 1311137741 95481 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311137751 712784 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1311137763 928316 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fine line < 1311137767 346433 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think physics are a mess actually < 1311137783 681053 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, standard model is *awful* I don't care who you are < 1311137786 310461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an example, but w/e < 1311137787 930377 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think otherwise you are on some good shit < 1311137788 131948 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics isn't my style. my groove. it isn't. < 1311137806 199355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have said biology >:) < 1311137820 911319 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what is" vs "what if" < 1311137824 376754 :skewness!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com NICK :variants < 1311137845 175859 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi again < 1311137864 634886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hey, I need Data.Generics < 1311137866 414811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm, I think < 1311137870 560358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :biology's a good field to be in, because as long as your methodology is good pretty much any experiment leads to publishable results < 1311137871 924604 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1311137874 860975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they're "nothing happened" < 1311137886 400655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's notable and interesting in biology, especially if you think something should have done < 1311137893 259681 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf: "get to bed please" me: "I'm having a discussion on IRC" bf: "carry on :P" < 1311137894 530097 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1311137895 668861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are more or less infinitely many unsolved problems < 1311137897 342222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also you get to torture frogs < 1311137909 734112 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not torture when their brain is the size of a pea < 1311137910 834628 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noting < 1311137923 54036 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not "infinitely many", just a very large unsolved problem space. < 1311137928 329786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's torture iff they can feel pain < 1311137932 589383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size of their brain is irrelevant < 1311137935 875260 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :iff eh? < 1311137938 37650 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :if and only if? < 1311137941 631143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1311137945 378975 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large *and easy to access*, more-like... < 1311137946 755114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can feel pain, you can torture it. < 1311137948 806504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's what the more or less was for < 1311137952 668566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can't feel pain, you can't torture it. < 1311137957 823622 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I told you by severing the right nerves in the spine they can't feel pain eh? < 1311137958 394519 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311137964 504919 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do forgs feal pain....... < 1311137968 566428 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do, alas. < 1311137970 109683 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike physics, where you pretty much *need* to spend your career on it to get a notable result. < 1311137973 397794 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1311137976 372934 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess is a popular standard. but surely the specific rules are of more historic than mathematical interest. < 1311137977 16310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: then that wouldn't be torture, that would just be relatively pointless messing about < 1311137977 300602 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is arguable whether or not they feel pain < 1311137980 749498 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that humans feel pain < 1311137981 826205 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are frogs people too < 1311137985 918869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably ending in death, which of course is bad, but not torture < 1311137986 590301 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :they obviously wish to avoid the negative stimulous < 1311137987 254039 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an open question < 1311137990 107889 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stimulus < 1311137995 196163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no, frogs are cats < 1311138002 657412 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody really knows if it is "suffering" in the sense humans or mammals have it < 1311138004 694992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUE FACTS < 1311138008 663283 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :their brains are quite small < 1311138015 841792 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who knows < 1311138027 337828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Struct a where < 1311138027 578259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : makeMut :: (RW v) => Gen (a v) < 1311138027 578425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : readMut :: (RW v, R v') => a v -> Gen (a v') < 1311138028 962637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is it?????? < 1311138030 103475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy help < 1311138033 996791 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhhhhhhh < 1311138034 424903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my project is exploding under its own complexity < 1311138043 395888 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it's called a pastebin < 1311138044 486453 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311138047 824205 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311138051 735209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: it was three lines < 1311138057 412516 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what does this mean???? < 1311138062 819416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I DONT KNOW;W < 1311138066 112731 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1311138069 40613 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :give monqy another scone < 1311138070 457450 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311138074 846822 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im stufed < 1311138080 239868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stp;dufed < 1311138123 965934 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah bloody hell, AIM imploded < 1311138124 652751 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :again < 1311138134 483001 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest in peace < 1311138141 494486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip aim < 1311138143 673966 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" p.s. for sucks" <<< this would make a great saying < 1311138145 3554 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the reason programming becomes science/engineering is that it can't be wrong. The way a program is required to work. < 1311138146 296627 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hangs the stuffed monkey on the wall
< 1311138146 498200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead on arival < 1311138150 343484 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did it for sucks < 1311138155 43712 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/1091803 ... Wow. < 1311138162 575277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: heh, we both parsed for as a preposition there rather than a noun? < 1311138166 590606 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can we hang the stuffed monqy on the wall < 1311138171 945104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: without looking, is that the comparison of echo impls between UNIX variants < 1311138179 768222 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas art can always be approximate < 1311138186 517236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus GNU < 1311138186 719380 :variants!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com NICK :copumpkin < 1311138187 551971 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1311138187 753759 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311138187 954979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1311138219 895409 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1311138221 383057 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: that's the joke.jpg < 1311138222 95713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU echo is my favourite program it does everything < 1311138222 329130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're all good, for their own purposes < 1311138230 868340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1311138235 993327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU for printing help messages and version information? < 1311138244 630505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: GNU is the only one there which supports the -e flag < 1311138244 831794 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The comparison of GNU echo isn't entirely fair. < 1311138259 252204 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's omitting a few dozen other files. < 1311138262 481931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I've found myself wishing for in Busybox before now < 1311138274 249185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solved the problem with printf in the end, but it was messy < 1311138281 64743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, Data.Generics makes this a real pain < 1311138295 373354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: busybox has catv for that purpose < 1311138299 637568 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that gaming will eventually prove to be "software as art" < 1311138303 107197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I didn't know about that < 1311138305 758139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you run it in reverse? < 1311138317 156923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, echo -n -e is sort of the reverse of cat -v < 1311138323 431689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(echo -e without -n will just print -e) < 1311138327 981532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's echo < 1311138329 238593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure < 1311138333 529701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf is probably the thing to use < 1311138352 152199 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo here < 1311138352 390464 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :here here < 1311138362 221771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the problem, incidentally: you have a serial terminal on a system that contains only Busybox, and the terminal will garble non-ASCII characters you send; you have Busybox sh running in the terminal; how do you send a binary?) < 1311138395 661701 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, uuencode. < 1311138415 548788 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No, not commonly in Busybox. :/ < 1311138422 526947 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, yes it is. Right there. < 1311138423 986019 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311138436 529120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You overthought the problem. < 1311138437 814696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, I've re-added the VHDL-style monadic DSL back in to my synthesiser toy; now the only problem is finding an actual /use/ for it < 1311138458 390469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it was a stripped-down version, that didn't have uudecode < 1311138463 356355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the binary we were trying to send was uudecode < 1311138479 527682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh < 1311138484 886839 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Unlike physics, where you pretty much *need* to spend your career on it to get a notable result." <<< then there's stuff like number theory where you have to spend your career to find out you weren't good enough to ever get a norable result in the first place < 1311138498 299539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the functional style seems nicer in all cases I've tried so far :P < 1311138503 26219 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No base64 either? < 1311138508 682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you really have an obsession with number theory's difficulty < 1311138510 845856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not sure < 1311138511 273592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: broken? < 1311138521 904093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end I wrote a script that translated things to a series of printfs < 1311138526 850740 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311138544 171654 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calibre works fine on the command line on Linux, right? < 1311138552 204916 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to make a Nook publication
< 1311138565 85565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, given that someone mentioned xkcd earlier, I've actually been looking back through it trying to find a good one < 1311138571 505608 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: heh, we both parsed for as a preposition there rather than a noun?" <<< well yes, but i only did if for sucks < 1311138578 740903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like http://xkcd.com/887/ which has what I want in an xkcd < 1311138600 509840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do i get an infinite list of iorefs < 1311138603 834728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it isn't a joke in that there's no punchline, there's a bunch of intriguing research, and the results are quite amusing < 1311138616 4493 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unsafeInterleaveIO < 1311138620 968554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1311138622 6477 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a punchline its just really bad < 1311138625 843802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: doesn't recursive do work < 1311138652 245904 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that gives you only a cyclic list with _one_ ioref in it :P < 1311138658 622958 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*notable) < 1311138676 208295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: doesn't sequence (repeat newIORef) work < 1311138678 632721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, strict < 1311138680 122141 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait actually you don't even need recursive do for that < 1311138691 460647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty replicateM_ < 1311138692 452093 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m () < 1311138696 723952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty replicateM < 1311138697 435206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m [a] < 1311138713 322250 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311138717 374429 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's wrong with unsafeInterleaveIO, this is the kind of stuff it's _for_ < 1311138739 531006 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i used both that and recursive do in Malbolge Unshackled < 1311138768 964586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle replicateM < 1311138769 922366 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad replicateM :: Monad m => Int -> m a -> m [a] < 1311138770 123415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad replicateM_ :: Monad m => Int -> m a -> m () < 1311138770 631740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah yeah i know :P < 1311138775 146907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out I don't need it :D < 1311138776 854013 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: broken? < 1311138777 907551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe) < 1311138781 606248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: soul < 1311138790 221601 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311138793 784193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redsynth/Test.hs:54:10: < 1311138793 985782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Illegal instance declaration for `GenF (mut -> Gen ()) pure' < 1311138793 985958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (the Coverage Condition fails for one of the functional dependencies; < 1311138793 986065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -XUndecidableInstances to permit this) < 1311138796 197332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311138802 185949 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously the reason is i'm not in number theory myself < 1311138804 109572 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it's in IO, you won't be able to get an infinite number of IORefs without, i believe < 1311138804 310841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311138833 68004 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSTEAD I SHALL JUST FAIL IN A SIMPLER FIELD < 1311138863 44415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i know < 1311138878 814828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: didn't you say you were sleeping like a normal person < 1311138892 776399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : [a',b',c'] <- sequence [readVar a, readVar b, readVar c] < 1311138895 282652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's wrong with this?? < 1311138896 277748 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i realized one of my best results is essentially the same as this famous theorem in symbolic dynamics, or at least the proofs are very similar < 1311138901 468202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :readVar is Var a -> Gen a < 1311138925 880510 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my result follows from that, i'm switching to biology < 1311138942 992746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sshhhh, Elizacat is around < 1311138948 234896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was, but that pattern is easily breakable < 1311138960 90975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, restorable, astonishingly < 1311138977 658649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm... < 1311138984 263332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i share your maybe-not-pain < 1311138996 945912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1311139008 281597 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't see anything wrong... < 1311139016 104158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wrong type :) < 1311139020 762373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my typeclass, i mean < 1311139025 714924 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311139050 545061 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: sorry i didn't mean to imply your field is inherently simpler than mine, more that it has more hot chicks < 1311139121 799809 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this hot biology chick at uni who i'd prolly ask out if she didn't have kids :-d < 1311139124 20335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?. pl undo do m <- newMut; f m; readMut m < 1311139124 509861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (>>) f readMut =<< newMut < 1311139127 94209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross < 1311139133 930399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: don't you have a girlfriend? < 1311139138 872938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1311139141 849969 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i don't < 1311139161 724302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I must be confused < 1311139168 440442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he used to, but then he un-got a girlfriend < 1311139175 802881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :explanations w/ elliott < 1311139349 291025 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could ask the biology chick out for casual sex tho < 1311139495 997399 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha time vultures < 1311139529 143021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Redsynth.Test> let ID x = addS (addition (one,zero,zero,zero) (one,zero,zero,zero)) in x < 1311139529 427925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Maybe.fromJust: Nothing < 1311139530 45963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good < 1311139611 518982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fromJust is actually inexpressible in Agda < 1311139641 464089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in Anarchy, it'd require you to either override the compile error, or put it in a context where only Just was possible and where that was inferrable by the compiler < 1311139657 250804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda reminded me a bit of Anarchy, even though they're moving in opposite directions in another sense < 1311139681 750372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Anarchy intended to be a real language? I know Agda is < 1311139682 679896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think fromJust is actually inexpressible in Agda < 1311139684 743782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311139689 123526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1311139691 404785 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b c -> a a a a b b b b c c c c a b c a a b b c c < 1311139694 217365 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : Elizacat: sorry i didn't mean to imply your field is inherently simpler than mine, more that it has more hot chicks < 1311139695 214208 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see what this does! < 1311139695 455575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip id . fmap ap . flip flip id . (ap .) . join . (flip .) . join . (flip .) . (flip =<< (flip .) . join (flip . (flip .) . flip flip id . (ap .) . join . (flip .) . join (flip . (flip .) . < 1311139695 657129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip id . (ap .) . flip flip id . (ap .) . flip flip id . (ap .) . join . join . join . join (join (join id))))) < 1311139695 657301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. < 1311139697 282916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm not sure < 1311139698 509261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can assume it as an axiom < 1311139699 514158 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as many as you would hope oklopol < 1311139702 511206 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I'm not hot myself < 1311139703 226121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's intended to be usable < 1311139703 427799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like in coq < 1311139704 794146 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I'm just ordinary < 1311139707 640525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Axiom yay : forall a, a. < 1311139708 224568 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume < 1311139709 648036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't quite rule it out from being an esolang < 1311139711 540964 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip id . fmap ap . flip flip id . (ap .) . join . (flip .) . join . (flip .) . (flip =<< (flip .) . (flip =<< (flip .) . flip flip id . (ap .) . join . (flip .) . (flip =<< (flip .) . flip < 1311139711 742911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip id . (ap .) . flip flip id . (ap .) . flip flip id . (ap .) . join . join . join . join (join (join id))))) < 1311139713 757088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem foo : forall a, a. Admitted. < 1311139718 697278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has esoish features, but also a lot of concessions to practicality < 1311139731 187370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. I plan to steal OCaml's standard library so that there is actually a standard library < 1311139744 904296 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem trollLogic : forall a, b. < 1311139747 514777 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I went into this field simply because 1) I love biology, 2) CS is a sausagefest, 3) modern CS is just crap < 1311139748 944843 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311139750 939376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how about stealing not Ocaml's < 1311139770 689990 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, joke's on me, #1 and #3 still hold true, but #2, bio is a sausagefest too! < 1311139771 133731 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311139778 508394 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like < 1311139793 432921 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get hit on constantly, and I am not even that good looking < 1311139798 454562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because I plan to write the compiler using OCaml as a backend < 1311139806 183069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but < 1311139814 398331 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ladies and gentlemen, swamp thing! *points to self*) < 1311139817 402327 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan TOPIC #esoteric :correlation causes causation | Troll programming languages | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1311139819 527194 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1311139822 680226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should i go to bed... < 1311139849 396552 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CS is a sausagefest" being a reason not to go into it is a great self-fulfilling prophecy. < 1311139864 912326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I will soon, I think < 1311139880 967383 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, many things are... < 1311139881 830764 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1311139909 263302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's not like making the decision to go into CS would fix that overnight < 1311139922 846667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it depends how much patience you have :-P < 1311139933 888776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i hate people who have as terrible a sleeping pattern as me, because i use them being awake as an excuse not to sleep yet < 1311139960 79073 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate going to sleep when elliott wakes up. < 1311139967 861006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the best advice I can give is to work out which sleep pattern you /want/ to have < 1311139969 310792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use it < 1311139973 959728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the one i don't have < 1311139976 993234 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'd say I have unpaid work to do, but I'm now going to get paid for it. Less than minimum wage, but still < 1311139985 699617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sleep pattern was really bad before I found to my surprise that that actually worked < 1311139992 240916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: better than nothing :) < 1311140015 421452 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, wow. Of those various echo implementations, only *one* is actually POSIX-compliant. < 1311140015 622810 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does this include the output of my brain's built in random number generator? < 1311140020 558291 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The V5 one. < 1311140021 938573 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only explanation I can find. < 1311140035 96836 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though its source is not) < 1311140038 561892 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how can /echo/ fail? < 1311140056 378648 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: It is forbidden for echo to take options. < 1311140064 273688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i would say i want to get up when i get up and go to bed when i go to bed, but that's stupid because I'm about 90 percent sure I have ridiculously low melatonin levels < 1311140070 938337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also terrible willpower < 1311140100 317823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's more, figure out what sleep time and wake time allows you to get the most done in a day < 1311140103 558561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly by experiment < 1311140129 906804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been finding that 9pm sleep, 6am wake (with some hours in it spent not sleeping) is easy to stick to, but not very useful for actually getting work done for some reason < 1311140148 999558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds impossible to stick to for me < 1311140157 952970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :early morning kills me < 1311140162 440645 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps because you're not a farmer. < 1311140181 57112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in my case, I can't really get work done in the afternoons < 1311140181 258746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a code farmer! < 1311140189 593963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor immediately after I wake up < 1311140196 161330 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more to the point, work amongst humans implies comradery, and comradery implies being awake when other people are awake. < 1311140206 415621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leaves only a few hours in the sane-people sleep schedule < 1311140209 869281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"work amongst humans implies comradery" <-- this is complete bullshit < 1311140214 513023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the insane one where I go to bed at 9am is a lot more productive < 1311140231 729519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm useless for hours after I wake up < 1311140239 79561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my body sucks :( < 1311140252 87516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott the black hole < 1311140265 765768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just like to be awake constantly, except i can press a button and it makes me feel really tired but not like I haven't slept and then I would have a sleep if I felt like it < 1311140270 224800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the life o/ elliott < 1311140310 238596 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311140317 187644 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could go unconscious and hallucinate at will this would be pretty cool < 1311140334 361156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's pretty much the only reason i'd want to be tired < 1311140342 866625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling asleep is nice and also unconscious hallucination is nice < 1311140346 25862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I bet ais523 is terrified of dreams < 1311140367 500905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, I think we've discussed dreams in here before < 1311140373 768388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they often leave me disoriented afterwards < 1311140380 629308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they not count because you can't take real-world actions in them? < 1311140389 166783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after I realise beliefs I thought I held while dreaming were completely nonsensical < 1311140392 253608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you're scared of hallucinogens and anything that impairs thoughts < 1311140398 671273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sacred < 1311140401 172400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scared" < 1311140402 779470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno what term to use < 1311140482 509739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a reasonable term < 1311140592 395539 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dream can influence a waking thought < 1311140630 178517 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact, all dreams which get mentioned in waking time have influenced communication < 1311140636 583111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, you can remember dreams, although usually only the end of one < 1311140641 256251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: citation needed < 1311140649 96568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dreams, if described, often sound like the sort of thing zzo38 would come up with < 1311140651 868698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have about as much context < 1311140663 349582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. I was dreaming of Chess vs. Missigno. a few days ago < 1311140666 557906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311140670 545992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best game < 1311140672 891655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Missingno. < 1311140674 459616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/thing/whatever < 1311140681 723091 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: the concept of the word dream is based on collective experiences of dreams < 1311140685 712662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even worked out some of the rules after I woke up < 1311140701 576612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then realised it was an obvious win for the Chess player; it might be interesting if you added a second Missingno., but I doubt it < 1311140798 841860 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that Missingno is a pokemon but how can it "vs" Chess? a pokemon battle? < 1311140803 447836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(summary of the rules: played on a chessboard; the chess player starts with a standard set of 16 pieces arranged in the usual way, but the king has no royal powers because they're permanently in checkmate; the missingno. player starts with two missingno.s on d8 and e8, and a missingno. can teleport to any square of the board and captures as it moves) < 1311140805 686243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this is definitely the most confusing code I've wirten ... today < 1311140825 610676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are the pieces lovingly handcrafted marble missingnos < 1311140839 495408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the chess player wins by capturing both missingno.s or having a king (including a pawn promoted to king) on the 8th rank at the start of the turn, the missingno. player wins by capturing all the chess pieces) < 1311140849 179969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't get that far, but I assume so < 1311140860 570452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I dream, details don't exist unless I wonder about them, and I didn't < 1311140869 46447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great if they were, though < 1311140877 627490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe Staunton pattern missingno.s in wood < 1311140888 570221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that missing the dot in missingno. is as bad as capitalising the b in brainfuck < 1311140939 102549 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think is that the best features of Nintendo glitches is the fact that the code was too optimized to allow for conditional guards against them. < 1311140947 499178 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like they left the gates open for glitches. < 1311140969 379134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be doing a glitchrun of Pokémon Blue as part of a Let's All Play next month, and I've been practicing < 1311140975 261959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's presumably why Missingno. surfaced in my mind < 1311140975 662660 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe they just didn't realize < 1311140985 232492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why chess was involved < 1311140993 963937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The GNU version is best. none of the other's implement --help to print the program's usage, including specifics on the (also not implemented) -E and -e options, which are useful depending on how your script uses echo. Also, vs the SYS V and other older versions, this version of echo doesn't require a shell to properly handle escape sequences or quotes. It also properly detects and uses locales and characters sets. The FreeBSD version does almost < 1311140994 165685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : none of these things. Also, given the source code above, it would be a simple matter to reimplement echo more simply. Be careful. Some of that extra functionality may be neccesary for your system to function." < 1311141019 688395 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But so.. is it ethical/moral to knowingly leave out conditional guards just incase a glitch occurs < 1311141031 386105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you should be put in prison for it < 1311141036 758168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for making a GAME that is BUGGY OMG < 1311141041 699518 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To that I say: only SysV makes echo "$FOO" safe. :) < 1311141043 661147 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with super mario you see... they were fighting over every byte < 1311141059 121167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd have to object to that on the basis that it isn't generally /useful/ for echo to implement locales unless it has help/version info < 1311141078 492544 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the code was "truer" because it allowed glitches < 1311141083 370081 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its kind of ironic < 1311141094 741738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: did you see ksplice's vulnerability report against Super Mario Bros., complete with hotpatch < 1311141105 523773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was one of the better April Fools jokes from last April 1, IMO < 1311141106 660523 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311141110 141702 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know who ksplice is :D < 1311141115 881230 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol but ok lol < 1311141123 728108 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1311141136 324743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're basically a Linux kernel security company; they sell a product that allows for kernel updates without rebooting < 1311141142 127321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also talk about related stuff on their blog < 1311141160 451652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go: http://blog.ksplice.com/2011/04/smb-1985-0001-advisory/ < 1311141169 649149 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll click it soon.. < 1311141176 376213 :paskill!~paskill@88.117.151.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311141178 176492 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeha.. this has been on my mind for a while. < 1311141189 132516 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the patch. < 1311141192 847386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paskill: hello < 1311141193 843896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1311141205 576603 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason for the cool glitches in games is simply they don't add code to prevent them. < 1311141211 585723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to a bunch of SMB1 speedrunners about it, they suspected that it probably had unintended side effects but weren't sure what < 1311141222 294008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: or... for mistakes < 1311141224 333555 :paskill!~paskill@88.117.151.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1311141246 315130 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the patch actually do, anyways? < 1311141260 501559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we weren't entirely sure < 1311141262 98094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. theres a mario glitch which allows small mario to have the pallete of fire mario < 1311141280 295828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of its effects is to prevent rightwards horizontal zipping from working < 1311141281 440272 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now nintendo could have included code which says "small mario should never be allowed to have the fire mario pallete" < 1311141300 591085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's a one-line change that replaces a variable with a constant, it probably makes leftwards zipping really easy or something < 1311141303 571194 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since they never formally said it can't happen... it ended up happening < 1311141311 67784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that... isn't how coding works < 1311141316 851786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to put conditionals for impossible conditions in < 1311141320 176651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well, the strange thing there is that something that should be stored in one variable is actually stored in two < 1311141325 576163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that /some other/ code has a bug that deliberately sets it that way < 1311141332 78332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug is not in the lack of condition, it's in the other code changing < 1311141333 782801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1311141338 118286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the problem happens when they get out of sync < 1311141346 336133 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well its not "entirely" a bug < 1311141384 520920 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most modern games i think will just say "somethings wrong lets abort" < 1311141392 185124 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe im wrong here < 1311141412 885648 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Part of it is that many such conditions are actually *security flaws*. < 1311141415 457597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it's very rare for a game to abort on detecting an internal consistency, except for multiplayer games that use reproducability in order to reduce bandwidth < 1311141436 806929 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On retro games, there are actually errors that let you patch memory. < 1311141437 235097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most will spout debug messages but otherwise try to continue < 1311141445 110786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my favourite is in SML2 < 1311141450 650988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test :: Gen (Var Bit, Var Bit) < 1311141450 944890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test = toLocs `fmap` struct (undefined::Bit, undefined::Bit) < 1311141455 24825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've forgotten completely why i'm doing this < 1311141456 465681 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, that was an *amazing* run. < 1311141459 176239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to glitch out of a level's boundary, which has the result of making the entire ROM and RAM a playable level < 1311141467 751153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can break blocks in order to change RAM < 1311141476 877834 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Detecting an "internal consistency"? "Oh no, I'm in a consistent state! Abort! Abort!" < 1311141487 69645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, inconsistency < 1311141491 720631 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pokémon Yellow save glitch is pretty awesome, too. < 1311141527 434956 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting the game at the right time in the save process makes it think your inventory is unbound, making the inventory screen into a memory patcher. < 1311141528 548057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the same trick's been done without resetting during a save, but it requires a Ditto < 1311141549 391642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, it's known as the ZZAZZ glitch, because it changes three out of every four bytes in memory to 153 < 1311141563 537598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which happens to be Z in the crazy character set that Pokémon first gen used < 1311141582 309892 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah. < 1311141585 709261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Bulbasaur or Explosion, with other methods of interpreting it < 1311141596 623973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, it overwrites the "number of Pokémon in party" counter with 153 < 1311141603 931663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite the buffer overflow < 1311141610 876340 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was obsessed with glitches ever since I read about guile's glitches in street fighter 2 < 1311141617 842682 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love Pokémon's glitches. < 1311141631 6387 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a TASer's wet dream or something. < 1311141634 906437 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "is this real?" "which street fighters will this work on?" < 1311141665 806319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the funny thing is, they've been really different version-to-version < 1311141694 509395 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so, i learned about the chinese word ira waza < 1311141698 881370 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the palette thing, I'd assume (not that I recall anything about NES graphics) that the "second variable" where the palette is stored, separate from the character state, is just some sort of a sprite palette control register, which is what's getting out of sync. < 1311141701 674159 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean japanese < 1311141704 770361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially Ruby/Sapphire, which have no known exploitable glitches and basically no glitches altogether, compared to Emerald, which has a huge number of fun exploitable glitches < 1311141707 408621 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry.... not concentrating < 1311141721 97894 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Could you write that in kanji? < 1311141727 161114 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311141735 621156 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, that's parsing as a random conglomeration of morae for me. < 1311141742 298385 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it ura waza i meant i think < 1311141746 691092 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. ura waza < 1311141755 594287 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, looked it up. < 1311141762 323858 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :裏技 < 1311141762 790653 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :means something like.. underhanded technique < 1311141764 29909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IIRC that glitch is actually different, but I can't remember the details < 1311141782 131743 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning "underhanded trick", or (computer terminology) "exception". < 1311141784 497657 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have a link with all the glitches? < 1311141792 518804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: in which game? < 1311141796 836190 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes perfect sense with the kanji. < 1311141803 296178 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pokemon games < 1311141804 214699 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the word has an awful lot of meaning < 1311141813 377951 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :including how to fold a tshirt in split seconds < 1311141831 901511 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: No, it only has a single but general meaning. :) < 1311141835 863784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: for speedrun-exploitable ones in the first two generations, http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/GBx/Pokemon.html is pretty good < 1311141844 622971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't document Emerald or DPP glitches well < 1311141857 790145 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311141861 875174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Black/White, although they have a few known glitches, haven't really been researched fully < 1311141868 575269 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there were *some* Ruby/Sapphire glitches... < 1311141876 290299 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's not like I've seen that run recently. < 1311141883 85975 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may have just been a heavy luck manipulation run. < 1311141884 939110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed, but none are used in a speedrun < 1311141889 956895 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaah*. < 1311141892 13476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just luck manipulation and lag manipulation < 1311141911 372449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like undiving while going through a door let you go out of bounds, but that doesn't accomplish anything useful < 1311141917 175174 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok one meaning but richly laden with things < 1311141925 275324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because out of bounds is just a few tiles and then blackness you can't walk in < 1311141939 483666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to DPP, where you /can/ walk in the blackness, which lead to huge projects with people "mapping the void" < 1311141940 903272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1311141947 761878 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word "ura" is especially potent < 1311141951 35756 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike RGB, where "out of bounds" is "level in arbitrary memory". :) < 1311141957 788580 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially re: nintendo < 1311141961 274028 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly "lot of stuff that's inexplicably there". < 1311141970 609371 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: "ura" just means "back". < 1311141972 207485 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pik i don't know japanese though.. < 1311141983 754619 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and back is an exceedingly general word < 1311141987 698059 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1311142003 763093 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but back in japan means different things than back in english < 1311142008 858834 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man golden sun < 1311142009 489417 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some very culturally specific things < 1311142014 962259 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to see a TAS of that < 1311142046 170167 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it's just that it's also a morpheme which gets composed with things, unlike English where it's pretty much standalone. < 1311142088 715070 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing mystical or magical 'bout it. < 1311142092 824279 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame there aren't any on tasvideos < 1311142103 952487 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't go that far < 1311142104 566882 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that game's luck engine is so utterly ridiculous < 1311142161 830232 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I would. Japanese tends to have extremely general morphemes which get composed into more complex yet general words. It really is just how the language works. :) < 1311142182 139950 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the morpheme is mysterious then < 1311142191 52071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311142360 906983 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more so than any other. < 1311142398 210898 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres an interesting one: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpost.php?s=27fc6a9bcfa745aac1fa09ae1afaa5b3&p=99677&postcount=6 < 1311142410 294119 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1311142453 828861 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :from, big debate about 2 words omote and ura: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7802 < 1311142507 928275 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're one of those people that goes "NEKO NEKO KAWAII DESU DESU", aren't you? < 1311142562 748037 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311142583 660782 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-s < 1311142602 293075 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1311142677 230201 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i knew it better, but i know i don't know it < 1311142744 474715 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it mystical due to it being the term associated with glitches which only occur in japanese software < 1311142772 222888 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is basically what i am stuck on < 1311142819 766043 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi guys, I'm thinking about arranging an esolang course for the University of Helsinki, but my connection with the community ceased around 2004... so... can you enlighten me on the highlights after that, preferably languages that had new ideas and were not just addons / encodings for already existing esolangs, and interesting findings (such as the discovery of first loop in Malbolge)? < 1311142824 995236 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki says: The term itself became globally popularized when video gamers in the 1980s began sharing their game-related urawaza online.[1] < 1311142833 29514 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :of "ura waza" < 1311142858 584024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: heh; any relation to fizzie, Deewiant? < 1311142861 999933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1311142869 77363 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can check < 1311142870 355755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aalto is a different thing isn't it... < 1311142885 228765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wacky finns. and your universities < 1311142894 140767 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311142911 304331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try and give a comprehensive-ish answer but it'll have to wait until tomorrow < 1311142926 609460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ais has left unfortunately < 1311142933 11534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd be a good person to ask < 1311142939 738563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais523) < 1311142960 26409 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311142976 744752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: I will say that Underload is one of the most interesting esolangs since < 1311142981 123093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also BCT < 1311142991 300712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see esolangs.org/wiki < 1311143016 701050 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Aalto is a combined college of technical, artistic and economic schools < 1311143057 348055 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I know the wiki, but it seems that the number of langs / year has been going up ever since 2002, and most of the new languages are really uninteresting. < 1311143069 217335 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311143172 264403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311143206 859170 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, thanks already, I'll check Underload, BCT and Grasp. < 1311143255 464792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311143490 873865 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Glass, but that's mostly personal language preference, not out of some sort of inherent amazingivity. < 1311143550 40592 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Feather would be a good language to cover, if it just existed. < 1311143592 100110 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311143596 471712 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311143597 546718 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Befunges are probably worth mentioning due to seeing most "real-world" use < 1311143600 388559 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1311143600 589858 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1311143602 63284 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Etc. < 1311143616 478082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How do you feel to be an example of "real-world" use? < 1311143616 679124 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " works here now. the point is < 1311143626 282746 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ...the point is? < 1311143626 486434 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but since it runs in sandbox mode... i never thought of that myself < 1311143636 310483 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, he's being incoherent again. < 1311143655 755074 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, fungot, we are not letting you out of the box. We don't trust you to be Friendly. < 1311143656 40941 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i understand why it's distracting. and i did both an fnord and running it on ' fnord' < 1311143724 970258 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT ABIWORD HAS NO AUTORECOVERY < 1311143756 735966 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, everything's still here, good < 1311143760 5974 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :abiword? < 1311143765 200131 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we still in the 90s? < 1311143789 49976 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordPerfect is the 90's < 1311143835 787008 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordPerfect is also the 80s. < 1311143927 667423 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP42 is from 1986; the very popular WP51 is from 1989; I don't think the Windows versions in the 1990s were ever all *that* popular. < 1311143998 134414 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :throughout the first half of the 90's i didn't even know windows < 1311144008 406990 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know windows since v. 95 < 1311144125 270559 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Through the first half of the 90's I didn't even know my ABCs. :P < 1311144134 300834 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piet might also be a notable "image-based language" example to mention, though it's not "after 2004" so it's not part of the question. < 1311144159 831565 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your abstract base classes. < 1311144487 580294 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311144549 487502 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311144607 567791 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in a good mood now. < 1311144615 806903 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read what I actually typed up < 1311144620 927985 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311144622 66542 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently my step-mother's losing this case < 1311144648 367039 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-49-6.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311144649 202429 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-49-6.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1311144649 405139 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311144658 782804 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, wow that sounds like a nasty thing for me to say < 1311144693 61448 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :divorce case? < 1311144748 961362 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1311144790 225043 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something against a car insurance company. < 1311144898 735371 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, I'll definitely include fungeoids, especially Befunge, because it continues to fascinate people < 1311144965 446212 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, uh... BF Joust? There was a veritable flurry of BF Jousting going on on-channel some time ago. It's at least different. < 1311145015 638533 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you count Redcode, methinks < 1311145051 646394 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, it's sort-of a real world use case too. :p < 1311145075 679235 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not /really/ the same language < 1311145095 46645 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closely inspired by, at least. < 1311145099 595281 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague feeling I have some (possibly qualified as "former" in my case) acquaintances shared with atehwa. Possibly from the direction of the irtie/bC! circles? The name rings a bell. < 1311145133 932994 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recognize the name but probably just from some random netplace < 1311145139 75397 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was still there when Piet came, didn't look properly into that, though. I can check Glass out. < 1311145151 605091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Were you on the mailing list? < 1311145179 786204 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I've read through the few archives that mtve handed over (where's the rest‽) < 1311145187 191475 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Didn't you run the mailing list? < 1311145219 914219 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I did. :) < 1311145229 762755 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't shut it down properly, though. < 1311145245 144548 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the failure of 2004 Essies was my fault, too. < 1311145282 566675 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the archives are at http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/ < 1311145291 932711 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that does not include the times @ cats-eye < 1311145315 970197 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I meant the cats-eye ones < 1311145454 12148 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and good that you mentioned bf joust, I wasn't aware of that, either < 1311145489 860295 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just had competitions for the shortest bf program to do task < 1311145495 266127 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2002, I think < 1311145521 161450 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust: the brainfuck-based competitive programming game that has had the most plots plotted out of it. [citation needed] < 1311145554 737018 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me that enthusiasm on CoreWars is declining, too. < 1311145563 853438 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://frox25.no-ip.org/~mtve/tmp/bef_maillist_0_520.txt is a 1996-1997 mailing list log so I'm missing 5 years :-P < 1311145569 656945 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a really creative time period in that, after the invention of imp rings. < 1311145914 459037 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have a vague feeling I managed to subscribe before the sange.fi times, but I can't find anything older than April 2001 in these old tarballs. < 1311145968 294857 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-45.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1311146286 501313 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could check if I have messages from the 90's :) < 1311146588 23522 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez, my old emails are a terrible mess :( < 1311146962 463311 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw this on another channel, it has some relevance here so had to post: http://redmine.ruby-lang.org/issues/5054 < 1311146992 459040 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM51qOpwcIM ... Lady Gaga actually has talent? Like, she can actually sing? Holy crap. < 1311147020 84802 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, RIAA, for turning that into a vapid pop star. < 1311147079 771569 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, that's eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeend! < 1311147127 809985 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: seems they're reinviting Lisp's super brackets < 1311147136 733471 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's not utterly *amazing*, but it's not utterly terrible and artificial. < 1311147145 47176 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :frankly speaking, i prefer the general super-end token (e|en|end)*end. < 1311147185 62056 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e(nd?)?)*end < 1311147204 430448 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least Interlisp-D still had those < 1311147212 79265 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the tab size is 4 or more then the existing (end\s+)*end should suffice. < 1311147248 811080 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interesting sociological phenomenon that thread mentions is "I wouldn't mind it since I wouldn't use it." vs "I would have to endure it when someone else used it." < 1311147258 912915 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[define (foo x) (let [(bar (1+ x] (* foo bar] < 1311147277 831662 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't put it that way though < 1311147391 478450 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311147458 439994 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311147580 646080 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reinventing < 1311147587 444758 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: i'm just a newbie here. no math skills. etc. it's quite that you're considering an esolang course < 1311147615 830185 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i reckon it would be popular < 1311147633 725748 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^interesting < 1311147637 709475 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it will :) < 1311147650 409473 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the programming underground < 1311147678 991903 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it gathers enough momentum, it would be one thing more for the dpt of computer science to be proud of :) < 1311147741 936535 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the department of computer science in the University of Helsinki budgets some of its course money to "courses that are in the interest of students" < 1311147746 800829 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I hope this could be one < 1311147753 369506 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How're you justifying it to the higher-ups? < 1311147756 301752 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay < 1311147781 298562 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I'm lagged) < 1311147786 754091 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311147812 10129 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty easy to justify anyway, though, because not only tend esolangs motivate people and demonstrate the joy of programming, they also have direct connections to the foundations of computing, in a (relatively) tangible form. < 1311147816 332328 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311147924 339645 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311148078 588 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311148085 444381 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1311148904 936117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but seriously, it is basically just wilful ignorance to say that thinking about programming stops you getting things done. <-- agreed. < 1311148909 661130 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311148922 428119 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1311148934 377063 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311148939 354993 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm now working on something like this: http://codepad.org/DI3V1Tcb < 1311148967 527610 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1311149046 806457 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a flow graph where the vertex is a pair of step number mod 9 and program index, and the remaining part is to reduce the graph so that i can figure out the actual meaning of it < 1311150821 518106 :foocraft_!~ewanas@89.211.226.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311151011 642205 :foocraft!~ewanas@178.152.90.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311151112 971936 :paskill!~paskill@88.117.151.186 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330] < 1311151218 230560 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311151718 947092 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: s/one more thing for your CS department to be proud of/one more thing for our CS department to be ashamed of/ < 1311151756 111809 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has been talk for a "functional programming in general" course here for years, but it has never materialized. < 1311151790 421158 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that Scheme course last summer (or the summer before that?), as a special case. < 1311151792 635390 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest we got was that one final SICP go-through summer thing, and that was more of a memorial service for the abandoned Scheme-based introductionary course. < 1311151793 857344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311151874 981538 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear there was even a Coq-using course on theorem proving at their CS department a while back. < 1311151921 304558 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear their classrooms are paved with gold. < 1311151941 506814 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't hear that. < 1311151955 296037 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me neither, to be honest. < 1311152015 365653 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :T-79.5305 Formal Methods P can sometimes have interesting topics at our place too, though. (And doesn't seem to have been organized after autumn 2008 or so.) < 1311152123 778940 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311152129 49870 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ you guys < 1311152147 884250 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have all that much to do with TKTL, really, but there's a lot of friends there < 1311152190 397317 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last time I had something to do with them was when Lambda ry arranged a course on lambda calculus and I gave part of its lectures :) < 1311152210 782426 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/haskell/Johdatus+lambda-kalkyyliin < 1311152237 622519 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I must have seen an advertisement for that somewhere. < 1311152263 147372 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's been three years already :O < 1311152966 683544 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311154442 654310 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311155766 491058 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311156156 287725 :foocraft_!~ewanas@89.211.226.196 QUIT :Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish! < 1311157128 755287 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! There _still_ isn't a spec for a language where the only computation mechanism is colored undirected graph rewriting? < 1311157163 363026 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but eodermdrome takes the case of uncolored undirected graph rewriting... < 1311157510 51934 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311157534 679106 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311157634 168797 :jcp-!alex@opengroove.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311157656 517053 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311158006 59021 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311158246 467567 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cosmic.mearie.org/tmp/crazy6.png ... oh well. < 1311158283 836619 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a lot more complex than i expected. < 1311158383 39507 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a state graph. < 1311158405 759632 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that is. < 1311158431 928601 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a behavior of the instruction 3 in Numberwang, plotted for one subcase out of nine. < 1311158452 554009 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1311158452 755662 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1311158452 990551 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : |\ < 1311158459 710716 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric : |/ < 1311158460 436645 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1311158464 894508 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o\ < 1311158465 191697 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :      | < 1311158465 477977 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :     /'\ < 1311158682 715456 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311158883 997532 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311161721 557806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311161726 720120 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP!! THAT MAN HAS NO HEAD!! < 1311162514 764647 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311163122 746728 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311163607 323508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1563 / 251 < 1311163608 418397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.227091633466135 < 1311163608 625654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 15 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1311163657 546471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit elliott. < 1311163819 90945 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish >>>>>>>++[>>[-]<-] < 1311163827 102043 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_ish: 10.0 < 1311163859 483242 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tadaaa < 1311164180 968839 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish >>>>>>>++[>>[--.]<-] < 1311164183 708666 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_ish: 3.0 < 1311164225 74077 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish >>>>>>>++[>>[-.]<-] < 1311164227 758806 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_ish: 12.2 < 1311164258 345603 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish2 (>)*7++(>>[-.]<-)*22>[[-.]] < 1311164260 973346 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Deewiant_test_ish2: 11.5 < 1311164285 807178 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish >>>>>>>++[>>[----.]<-] < 1311164288 517090 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_ish: 6.9 < 1311164454 351870 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-153-216.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1311164455 129323 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-153-216.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 < 1311164487 650878 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish (>)*7(>>[-]<-)*22>>[-] < 1311164490 412648 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_ish: 9.4 < 1311164559 595570 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: That >> will make you run off the end of the tape on odd tape lengths < 1311164573 41451 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish (>)*7(>>[-]<-)*22>>[[-]<+++] < 1311164575 782034 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_ish: 9.4 < 1311164581 941308 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think it is balanced out by < < 1311164595 85638 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: No it's not, because you only do the < afterwards < 1311164607 12655 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish (>)*7(>>[-]<-)*22>[[-]<+++] < 1311164607 863171 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: You will lose as soon as you exit the tape, whether you write there or not < 1311164609 615233 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_ish: 9.4 < 1311164617 781871 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or read) < 1311164650 163459 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but you only move 7 at the start, fair enough < 1311164653 778016 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bad < 1311164656 347300 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but how does it depend on the tape length being _odd_, because the loop only proceeds one tape place per iteration? < 1311164665 516733 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was confusing myself < 1311164668 201312 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311164690 174478 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_ish (>)*7(>>[-.]<-)*22>[[-]<+++] < 1311164692 867190 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_ish: 10.5 < 1311164698 727363 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I miss anything good? < 1311164702 832637 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can only wonder... :) < 1311164719 931795 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm just testing this thing out for the first time. < 1311164768 818524 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Plugin `tell' failed with: thread killed < 1311164775 762862 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:53:53: if you don't think, you can't accomplish anything. programming is a science. < 1311164787 772102 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't, it's maths mixed with the odd bit of engineering. < 1311164824 752245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like the exact opposite things. < 1311164894 741519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:56:23: elliott, standard model is *awful* I don't care who you are < 1311164913 542124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, a biologist who codes hates the standard model. < 1311164921 801963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly this means we should all jump ship. < 1311165021 271530 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*120[-]]>)*21[[-]<+++] < 1311165023 914761 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 27.1 < 1311165061 942820 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I made it on the hill :) < 1311165102 951528 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*120[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165105 641543 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 27.4 < 1311165149 92121 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*120[-.]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165151 795896 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 23.1 < 1311165158 919343 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*120[-]]>)*21[[+.]<--] < 1311165161 594274 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 27.4 < 1311165181 696608 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*110[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165184 393650 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 29.0 < 1311165198 768686 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah +(>)*9([(-)*110[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165201 364697 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 28.6 < 1311165215 982159 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (+>)*9([(-)*110[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165218 570277 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 23.6 < 1311165228 889046 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*100[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165231 490399 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 28.3 < 1311165238 176126 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*105[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165240 932028 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 27.4 < 1311165247 306072 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*90[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165250 109352 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 26.8 < 1311165261 415487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: I'd say you probably spend way too much time decrementing in that loop. < 1311165264 493081 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if one could make a binary search on the optimal value. < 1311165280 323099 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could, but it's not that useful. < 1311165286 82292 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on the current hill. < 1311165289 262717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will be rushed at that point by most jousters. < 1311165292 673369 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1311165315 52758 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :another take... < 1311165350 595782 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([-[-[-[-[(-)*115[-]]]]]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165353 281003 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 18.7 < 1311165378 730157 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*110[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165381 474557 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 29.0 < 1311165381 893187 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :115 is still a lot < 1311165387 613898 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still wayy too much time spent making decoys. < 1311165389 143570 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it less than 20 < 1311165444 679524 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but if the flag reaches zero during (-)*x, it won't even stay down for two cycles? < 1311165453 644128 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1311165477 352108 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you should really do is have that be (+)*x where x is smalish < 1311165479 672258 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallsih* < 1311165481 256848 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallish* < 1311165487 844296 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the idea of taking out decoys < 1311165518 223593 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, you're spending over 115 cycles on a lot of initially-blank cells < 1311165523 727948 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus not getting anywhere. < 1311165529 681712 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. But that's not the point, the point is to speed up the rush, and not care about decoys. < 1311165537 681551 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the current jousters are pretty sophisticated and will just skip your decoys. < 1311165546 196137 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, initially-blank cells are skipped over by [] < 1311165566 417856 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initially-blank cells will quickly be set to non-initially-blank by faster rushers < 1311165578 961817 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I can believe. < 1311165579 745451 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you can end up stuck on them for a long time if they did it with a - instead of a + < 1311165598 113488 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the choice of sign is mostly irrelevant, right? < 1311165609 470653 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using different signs helps < 1311165609 862415 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the polarities flip on half of the matchups. < 1311165616 511705 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, ina single program < 1311165619 490625 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I can see if this decoy-thinking helps < 1311165620 271958 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :switching the sign is good. < 1311165629 787234 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(+)*10[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165632 419475 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 21.6 < 1311165641 260466 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the link to that place where you can submit your jouster and then watch an animation of the tape? < 1311165644 388264 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: You can use http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/ for some visual testing < 1311165648 108770 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That < 1311165652 678650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that. quite helpful. < 1311165676 740438 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*115[-]]>)*21[[+]<--] < 1311165679 404517 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 26.6 < 1311165707 404063 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([(-)*110[-]]>)*20[-] < 1311165709 991431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, I quickly became discouraged after I could actually see how difficult it was to beat anything. < 1311165710 198811 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 28.4 < 1311165768 775656 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: My bots are fairly simple, I think they're nice to test against since they don't have complex behaviour (or complex-to-understand simple behaviour) < 1311165786 922281 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*110[-]]]]]]]]]>)*20[-] < 1311165789 607141 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 0.0 < 1311165797 403015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've considered having a declaritive style domain-specific language to specify properties of a jouster. < 1311165803 274158 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311165803 481440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*declarative < 1311165805 856690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be interesting. < 1311165843 285714 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should really consider using smaller numbers for decrement < 1311165852 716285 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also using preset numbers for decoy-clearing / flag-clearing is a bad idea. < 1311165894 903453 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: That's a syntax error < 1311165897 466043 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, (+)*10[-] is a different idea than (-)*110[-] < 1311165899 464556 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why it lost so much < 1311165914 916218 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a different goal < 1311165931 464784 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and the (+)*10[-] just works better in practice :-P < 1311165940 834994 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did not this time, I tested it already. < 1311165959 992053 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :egojsout says "Unmatched loop" < 1311165960 199346 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :could work better, of course, in a different context. < 1311165972 892689 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miscounted the brackets. < 1311165976 652287 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1311166033 7840 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([++++([-{[(-)*110[-]]}])%8>)*20[-] < 1311166035 732123 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 0.0 < 1311166082 34033 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :([+++ the [ isn't closed < 1311166091 792168 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([++++([-{[(-)*110[-]}])%8]>)*20[-] < 1311166094 478481 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 0.0 < 1311166101 528000 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez < 1311166103 35559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doesn't )*20 close it? < 1311166123 754304 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1311166130 557778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that close then < 1311166142 99114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait the ] isn't matched < 1311166143 122059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311166176 651613 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_blah (>)*9([++++([-{(-)*110[-]}])%8]>)*20[-] < 1311166179 333949 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_blah: 26.3 < 1311166215 103714 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_rush (>)*9([(-)*110[-]]>)*21[-] < 1311166217 889896 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_rush: 29.8 < 1311166229 18257 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still the best one I could come up with so far. < 1311166236 517746 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, "best" for the current hill < 1311166240 895207 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1311166242 812699 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have different characteristics < 1311166251 521389 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer this one because it doesn't push allegro down to fourth place ;-) < 1311166259 151250 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I played koth sometime :) < 1311166285 970378 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you could get back on the hill with a warrior that had been dropped :) < 1311166293 872191 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all goes in cycles < 1311166296 219859 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1311166365 585230 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust (>)*8(>[(<)*8(-)*33(>)*8([-[++[(+)*9[-]]]]>)*21])*21> < 1311166365 865144 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1311166372 149981 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust copypasta (>)*8(>[(<)*8(-)*33(>)*8([-[++[(+)*9[-]]]]>)*21])*21> < 1311166374 858488 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for CakeProphet_copypasta: 16.5 < 1311166390 375504 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could also automate the fine-tuning. < 1311166539 916972 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_rush (-)*123(>)*9([(-)*110[-]]>)*21[-] < 1311166542 510223 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_rush: 33.4 < 1311166554 521450 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shudder (++-)*100000 < 1311166559 161563 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for CakeProphet_shudder: 15.3 < 1311166562 33717 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1311166565 238153 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311166572 88761 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an old classic < 1311166583 40161 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Do you really want to special-case the last cell on 30-long tapes? :-P < 1311166623 168325 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I was too lazy to calculate for off-by-one mistakes :) < 1311166664 623271 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it *8 instead of *9 and put the > in front and drop everything after the *21 < 1311166703 195404 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_rush (-)*123(>)*8(>[(-)*110[-]])*21 < 1311166705 815057 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_rush: 33.4 < 1311166733 93901 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost the same what I append at the end of the program... < 1311166748 705337 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311166772 678957 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311167015 805301 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updated that http://zem.fi/egostats/ too, though it's quite a few programs out-of-date again already. It's very slow in the plotting. < 1311167072 864186 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in advance to all apple fanboys: stfu < 1311167290 767966 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Re. automating fine-tuning, ais523_waterfall or some version of it was originally tuned with a genetic algorithm until it beat all programs on the hill < 1311167310 115165 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised. :/ < 1311167432 939668 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311167540 160783 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311167852 225907 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_rush (-)*123(>)*12(+)*40<<<<(>[(-)*110[-]])*21 < 1311167854 975734 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_rush: 18.6 < 1311167872 903595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program wins by joining the ends of the tape together, moving a step back, and performing a careless clear. < 1311167874 728338 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>)*12 --> auto-lose on three tape lengths < 1311167889 360897 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test_rush (-)*123(>)*8(>[(-)*110[-]])*21 < 1311167892 152423 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for atehwa_test_rush: 33.4 < 1311167908 771777 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah, I just wanted to see if it will pay off. < 1311167922 446813 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto-losing generally doesn't pay off :-) < 1311167936 915341 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide < < 1311167939 525782 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for CakeProphet_suicide: 0.0 < 1311167952 257966 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fasted losing program. < 1311167952 469016 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could, if it's for statistically few enough cases. < 1311167954 778325 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fastest < 1311167968 363145 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could, yes, but it generally doesn't. < 1311167994 749467 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust foo (-)*123(>)*8(+)*40(>[(-)*110[-]])*21 < 1311167997 481884 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Deewiant_foo: 32.8 < 1311168016 784769 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best solution is to add hundreds of intricate loops that account for every tape length / enemy strategy / blah blah < 1311168021 971931 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit better. < 1311168024 359409 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust foo < < 1311168027 115335 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Deewiant_foo: 0.0 < 1311168045 334876 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yeah, see waterfall3 < 1311168071 367449 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust? < 1311168082 133078 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust < 1311168161 189866 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1311169327 529256 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, people who live in random European countries get to watch movies and read books in English. < 1311169338 818076 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's neat. I wish I lived in a random European country. < 1311169356 148344 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, that will happen to me if I continue Finnishly babbling. < 1311169378 403941 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Povistaa malamutii täypin. < 1311169411 62047 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why babble < 1311169419 656252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, but you get to see Australian things before the rest of us! < 1311169437 722177 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't know enough actual Finnish to actually speak Finnish. < 1311169445 518533 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lies. I actually live in India. < 1311169568 42090 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the chain of reasoning from "I don't speak Finnish" to "I should babble Finnish-sounding nonsense" < 1311169634 956786 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like a good idea, though. < 1311169654 695789 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it does. < 1311169658 781024 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pitää. < 1311169673 142864 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that was a real word. < 1311169676 689874 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm improving. < 1311169691 828602 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maa. Kotimaa. < 1311169702 827696 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm palindromes. < 1311169719 424612 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Äatipitää. < 1311169719 635634 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am quite satisfied with this palindrome generator thing I wrote a few days ago. < 1311169753 319014 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Äati" is a no-go < 1311169777 708964 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it was a typo < 1311170088 843440 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311170289 349339 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src scanl < 1311170290 113263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl f q ls = q : case ls of < 1311170290 324469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] -> [] < 1311170290 535424 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : x:xs -> scanl f (f q x) xs < 1311170334 76225 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it also map (foldl f q) (inits ls) < 1311170460 56630 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \q xs -> scanl subtract q xs == map (foldl subtract q) (inits xs) < 1311170460 980633 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "OK, passed 500 tests." < 1311170481 722669 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311170505 930837 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311170887 93536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> concat . inits $ [0..] < 1311170889 275483 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0,1,0,1,2,0,1,2,3,0,1,2,3,4,0,1,2,3,4,5,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,0,... < 1311170919 926515 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum . concat . inits $ [0..10] < 1311170922 70602 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 220 < 1311170948 867747 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311170967 480086 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith (*) [0..10] (reverse [10..0]) < 1311170968 807900 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1311170994 213054 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum $ zipWith (*) [0..10] (reverse [0..10]) < 1311170995 687684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 165 < 1311171011 408085 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum $ zipWith (*) [1..10] (reverse [1..10]) < 1311171012 504660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 220 < 1311171077 6633 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map length $ inits [0..10] < 1311171078 543802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11] < 1311171144 304595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (map length . inits) [0..1] < 1311171146 79885 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[0,1],[0,1,2],[0,1,2,3],[0,1,2,3,4],[0,1,2,3,4,5],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6],[0,1,2,3... < 1311171799 804348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (map length . inits) [0..] < 1311171801 835945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27... < 1311171900 858251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea because map length . inits seems to increase the length of the list by one. < 1311171907 191785 :mundi!~mundi@124-150-65-144.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311171922 779870 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311171971 861440 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311172085 565838 :mundi!~mundi@124-150-65-144.dyn.iinet.net.au PART #esoteric :"Ex-Chat" < 1311172624 748030 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311172681 780602 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311172874 484081 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, seems that Haskell has lost its 4th place status in the Great Language Shootout. < 1311172879 946859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was apparently second at one point. < 1311173038 845854 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311173089 964247 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311173493 797809 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311173548 694857 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311173568 723151 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311173573 236683 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust random [+-.+..].[>>>>.<->[>]-.-<].[<-..<.][[]<><]-<<[[>.-><>.+[[-+]..-+[>+<>]>[+]]]]+>[.[+.-<-<+.<+[<>[[<[.->]]]]]] < 1311173575 957025 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Taneb_random: 12.7 < 1311173643 629388 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That did better than I thought it would < 1311173652 644900 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311173726 264287 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311173878 964143 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you really submit a fully random program? < 1311173910 696950 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust random-reduced [+-.+..] < 1311173913 309393 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymee_random-reduced: 12.5 < 1311174008 367830 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, did you write an evolver? < 1311174037 240655 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just made a few random ones and used the best one < 1311174047 257123 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: That's not quite reduced, if the opponent does a -- or ++ style clear, the ] can pass < 1311174058 937794 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An evolver would probably be better < 1311174069 538795 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust random-reduced [+-+] < 1311174072 224251 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Lymee_random-reduced: 11.7 < 1311174099 493636 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about "dead code eliminated" < 1311174113 610919 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not equivalent, is what I meant < 1311174118 19502 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That code isn't necessarily dead < 1311174123 781508 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do anything useful. < 1311174125 607587 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although in practice is likely to be < 1311174162 798839 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the opponent comes to your flag and does (-)*100000, that code will be executed :-P < 1311174175 358785 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it does it at the right time < 1311174192 362351 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unlikely to do anything helpful, at least. < 1311174202 473952 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That much is true < 1311174260 851461 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311174300 340979 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does . do in bfjoust? < 1311174336 632648 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noop < 1311174336 879504 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1311174344 668372 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :noöp < 1311174480 923042 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if I had actually written an evolver < 1311174691 332816 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than taken one of the worst approaches to BFJoust programming possibl < 1311174693 156020 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1311174716 468327 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been higher on the highscore list < 1311174855 999197 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..] >>= (`replicateM` "<>[]+-.") < 1311174857 419070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","<",">","[","]","+","-",".","<<","<>","<[","<]","<+","<-","<.","><",">>... < 1311174867 411488 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :run this until you beat everything on the hill. < 1311174883 431649 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could add a filter to ensure brackets are balanced. < 1311174985 96161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum . map (7^) $ [0..1000] < 1311174987 45359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 146213274662667137112548063777985657385914925426115053337407750877446569570... < 1311174995 97451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that shouldn't take very long. < 1311175037 982309 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311175038 242092 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1311175038 453215 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1311175084 803744 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, well, you could treat a pair of balanced brackets as a single character for the purposes of counting possibilities. < 1311175090 377112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum . map (6^) $ [0..1000] < 1311175092 351631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 169993231486018340685555030298982692999685661970922295867882569185687427371... < 1311175121 677806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? that's not very many possibilities at all within set of bfjoust programs less than or equal to 1000 characters long. < 1311175123 329349 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And discount programs that have a < before any >s < 1311175137 630313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah I can't calculate that number easily.. < 1311175198 356888 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows it might be a viable solution that won't take 1 billion years to execute. < 1311175244 952090 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interested to see the winning program. It would be literally be one of the most optimal bfjoust programs, pulled out of the realm of possibility. < 1311175249 704742 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interesting < 1311175265 462282 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've exceeded my typo limit. Thats means I have to go to sleep now. good night. < 1311175304 466316 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311175337 271272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Future plan: create virus. establish botnet. find optimal bf joust programs from the set of all bfjoust programs < 1311175340 238659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1311175401 800160 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311175416 802079 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311175531 534251 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Select four programs: A, B, C, and D. Pit A against B and C against D. WLOG, assume A and C win. Kill B and D and replace them with A and C's offspring. < 1311175796 710377 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311176023 962032 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311176062 859800 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-48.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311176067 320872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-185-222.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311176212 31550 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fizzie_evo_4 program was evolved against some old hill a bit like that; it's quite close to one of the members of the starting population, which were the wiki's BF Joust article's examples. < 1311177327 769794 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311177352 786010 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311177923 257700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311179019 421615 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311183096 622251 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311183404 599653 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-120.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311183651 13799 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311184372 929562 :CakeProphet!~adam@h115.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311184373 294250 :CakeProphet!~adam@h115.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311184373 506254 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311184430 253761 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serafina Pekkala. < 1311184726 647291 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1311184728 250482 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://satwcomic.com/ < 1311184734 797698 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone translate :( < 1311184848 219061 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, it's all done by Google Translate. So, use Google Untranslate to get it back to English. < 1311185072 898177 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1311185180 99355 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I can almost read that first sentence. "Jag har undrat, varför har du en fisk på huvudet?" < 1311185209 757737 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, like... "I ___ ______, wherefore hast thou an fish __ _______?" < 1311185273 450739 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An boat? Wherefore will thou have an boat __ _____ ____?" < 1311185320 36067 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :på huvudet -> on [your] head. < 1311185338 579208 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherefore hast thou an city upon head? < 1311185343 240343 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Finnish is not terribly correct, but, well, Google Translate. < 1311185368 969839 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :har undrat -> have wondered. < 1311185408 215143 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you always translate into shakepearean english < 1311185428 509854 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not me, tswett. < 1311185439 75463 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only when translating from Germanic languages. < 1311185446 257217 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god you people with your names that are the same length < 1311185455 758580 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREFORE ART THOU JOHN < 1311185472 495529 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's easy to tell us apart. My name is white, everyone else's is gray. < 1311185474 81820 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR THINE MOBILE RINGETH NOT < 1311185479 538467 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND GOETH STRAIGHT TO VOICEMAIL < 1311185534 647640 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311185574 319500 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's happening in the world of esoteric programming? < 1311185628 562426 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: dependently typed befunge < 1311185678 102453 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work? < 1311185744 936569 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows, i just made it up < 1311185772 621825 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1311186177 263590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311186191 348128 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311186193 166265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311186193 997255 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1311186197 421368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1311186216 255593 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you whitelist me on the Minecraft server? < 1311186251 799205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep; gimme a minute first though, I just got online < 1311186258 683073 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1311186526 333369 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-185-222.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My request is still pending. < 1311186557 37617 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-185-222.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, I've got shit I should probably doing ATM, so whatever. :P < 1311186595 865427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I know; it's just that we've only really tested the server up to the limits of the people who were on during testing, so I'm trying to make sure everything will run stably with lots of RAM left over, etc. with more people before I let anyone else on... < 1311186604 893527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, there's nothing much at all on the server right now. Not even a house. :p < 1311186630 253115 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-185-222.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hooray, everyone being too lazy to play a game! :P < 1311186687 945514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It's been up with the real map for exactly two days; we've been focusing on mining a bunch of resources and trying to find a spot to build a civilisation :P < 1311186758 159264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like one day, actually < 1311186825 390909 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-185-222.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then my speaker decided to take a suicide leap off my desk. < 1311186878 456763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311186917 935302 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311187010 45084 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311187010 998043 :CakeProphet!~adam@h125.46.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311187011 522610 :CakeProphet!~adam@h125.46.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311187011 733347 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311187054 154434 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.coltech.vnu.edu.vn/~hoangta/jvse2010/Sakai-JVSE2010.pdf looks like this link never appeared in this channel. < 1311187180 551842 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.245.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311187185 403188 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.245.10 QUIT :Changing host < 1311187185 614488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311189091 71582 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311189480 579949 :CakeProphet!~adam@h211.22.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311189480 792141 :CakeProphet!~adam@h211.22.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311189480 792307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311189795 619120 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311189858 947297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:13:55: > fix error < 1311189859 158860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:13:57: "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E... < 1311189859 159063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:14:07: It's clearly returning a [Char] < 1311189859 159173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:14:14: no < 1311189859 159275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:14:15: One that makes /sense/ at that. < 1311189861 579408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: not in the way you think < 1311189866 714690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:14:57: Lymee: The show routine is printing out the initial " for the string. < 1311189866 945999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:14:57: error s = throw (ErrorCall s) < 1311189867 156725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:15:20: Lymee: And then the RTS starts outputting that it got an exception, so it prints *Exception: . < 1311189869 322395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:15:30: Lymee: And then, it tries to output the error message for that. < 1311189871 161250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:15:36: Lymee: And then the RTS starts outputting that it got an exception, so it prints *Exception: . < 1311189874 157813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:15:42: Lymee: And so on. < 1311189876 182364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311189880 221991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note how there's no closing quote in error (error "wat") < 1311189914 985108 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1311189921 87457 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have an exception while displaying the exception string. < 1311189947 491538 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let evilValue = fix error in True || evilValue < 1311189948 671035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Bool.Bool' < 1311189948 881808 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1311189977 711898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you can have an exception while evaluating any value < 1311189983 466166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an error string happens to be a value :) < 1311189988 279998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix error is of type String < 1311189989 432041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1311189993 379499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix :: (a -> a) -> a < 1311189997 702034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :error :: String -> a < 1311190007 729702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (String -> a) has to become (b -> b) < 1311190012 70007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b=String is the only thing that fits < 1311190023 562757 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1311190024 872508 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense < 1311190040 856575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let evilValue = fix error `seq` False in True || evilValue < 1311190042 339454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1311190053 398173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really an evil value any more than an infinite loop is < 1311190073 666132 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy evaluation gets confusing. < 1311190087 200956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that case is very obvious :P < 1311190162 292750 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making an observation. < 1311190167 76277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311190171 104247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:09:34: > let throw# = \x -> x in error "this wont work i dont think" < 1311190171 315358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:09:36: *Exception: this wont work i dont think < 1311190171 315568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, haskell is lexically scoped < 1311190274 962701 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware. < 1311190425 715969 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix < 1311190426 899750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a < 1311190615 544464 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311190636 886407 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha nonlexical scoping < 1311190844 975253 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311190910 39952 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : 04:56:23: elliott, standard model is *awful* I don't care who you are < 1311190910 250709 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, look, a biologist who codes hates the standard model. < 1311190910 461310 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric : Clearly this means we should all jump ship. < 1311190913 402960 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey now < 1311190918 456881 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a polymath < 1311190922 781782 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mostly focused on biology :) < 1311190927 776715 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :would I be programming if that were my sole interest < 1311190930 66867 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not my life < 1311190941 459366 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides I find most hard CS people are really just closet lambda calculus nerds < 1311190943 815145 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offense :P < 1311190996 617158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you don't understand functional programming so all CS is just \calculus nerding, reasonable conclusion to make < 1311191143 346689 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this again? < 1311191158 19281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1311191215 199810 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still need to learn it. there must be an easy way to understand functional programming < 1311191231 309690 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: and is this why CS is an awful thing? < 1311191256 493636 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think possibly it's because lambda calculus is the simple model of computation which corresponds closest to high-level mental concepts < 1311191278 401798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's goto and print < 1311191298 757957 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto isn't high-level < 1311191308 9854 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean TMs are TC, but programming them is still essentially esoteric < 1311191309 103971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here oerjan discovers sarcasm < 1311191332 168704 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :second best only to puns < 1311191338 686179 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need to use the new reddit convention of embedding /s in the alt text of your punctuation < 1311191354 326095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but then we'd know for _sure_ that elizacat was serious < 1311191411 154090 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while lambda calculus is just very thin syntactic sugar from actually being usable < 1311191445 817526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if that: /me links to http://tinyconcepts.com/invaders.html again :P < 1311191462 705808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok so the "array" code is pretty ugly, but that's just the fault of the choice of datatype :P) < 1311191527 408990 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only half serious < 1311191532 291702 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that code has no line breaks in my browser :( < 1311191535 952827 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust nobody but me < 1311191540 581204 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking me seriously may be hazardous to your health < 1311191546 553646 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :harmful or fatal of swallowed < 1311191555 748947 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an erection lasting more than four hours seek immediate medical help < 1311191563 603427 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :all very sound advice. < 1311191566 572322 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that already is a bit of syntactic sugar, you have equations and multiletter identifiers :P < 1311191596 421540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ok :P < 1311191597 872909 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the latter might be all you really need for some readability < 1311191609 323733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I consider identifiers irrelevant for \calculus < 1311191620 193491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The form with explicit variables is just defined on a set of variable names :P < 1311191627 934349 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any circumstances, unless battling a mime, do not attempt to punch yourself in the face. < 1311191644 452403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: top-level letrec is probably the important thing < 1311191651 305747 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "usable" includes readability considerations < 1311191652 415838 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this from personal experience. < 1311191667 772215 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah easy recursion is somewhat important < 1311191673 22395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I'm just saying that multi-letter variables aren't a change IMO < 1311191679 615207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I consider the lambda calculus normally < 1311191685 644419 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311191701 183120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well fix is easy enough, but mutual recursion is very hard in the lambda calculus, you basically have to inline all the mutual functions within each other... < 1311191726 676764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can formulate letrec in the lambda calculus though, so the only sugar is not having to name every bound variable as a parameter to the bound variable, pretty much < 1311191737 973014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by giving them directly-associated names instead < 1311191744 307450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :de-sugaring is trivial < 1311191813 300922 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I know this from personal experience. <-- i am starting to get an inkling you use this phrase a lot < 1311191847 3804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you know that from personal experience? < 1311191855 891911 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it elliott I was going to say that < 1311191875 118905 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now im cyring < 1311191890 537861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever not cry < 1311191896 567157 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. < 1311191905 381582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. < 1311191908 954181 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :519) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. < 1311191943 800860 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you snooze, you lose < 1311191953 545749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is that your life story < 1311191962 282106 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dropped my lunch and was picking it up off of the floor this is my excuse < 1311191970 51698 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I also grew a moustache when I was twelve < 1311192172 150607 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in less than a year I'll be thinking about choosing what to do at university < 1311192189 927095 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well if you can use fix you should also be allowed to use letrec (since both can be defined) < 1311192212 625098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm just saying that you can have a top-level set of mutual bindings in the lambda calculus almost directly < 1311192241 23793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define a letrec such that (with [...] sugar for lists because I'm lazy) `letrec [\[a,b,c]. ..., \[a,b,c]. ..., \[a,b,c]. ...]` works < 1311192247 935310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the first being a, second b, third c < 1311192258 542860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, top-level mutual bindings are just thin syntactic sugar < 1311192262 477788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's all you really need < 1311192292 172023 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i was about to write something like that, but without lists < 1311192306 180395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how could you do it without lists? < 1311192313 389890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually < 1311192315 892422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just fix < 1311192323 574839 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the letrec would then depend on number of functions < 1311192324 366622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (\[a,b,c]. [..., ..., ...]) < 1311192476 26621 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311192513 162098 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (\l a b c -> l (def. a) (def. b) (def. c)), or something like that < 1311192553 541174 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that won't work i think < 1311192568 805217 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it < 1311192610 897609 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be something that can replace fix there to make it work, anyway < 1311192914 519499 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (\t f -> t (\a b c -> f (def. a) (def. b) (def. c))) < 1311192960 263346 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that may be it. t now represents a 3-tuple and f a function for unwrapping it < 1311192994 444998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty < 1311193227 314981 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\t f -> t (\a b -> f (1:b) (1:zipWith (+) a b))) (\a b -> a) < 1311193243 280365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1311193252 703228 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that did not seem to work very well :P < 1311193266 273891 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it did type < 1311193281 595532 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = 1:b; b = 1:zipWith (+) a b in a < 1311193286 7470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1... < 1311193288 442717 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I promised myself when I was 7 that I would do maths at University < 1311193290 534797 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1311193292 667063 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1311193295 826420 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/GXlwe.jpg < 1311193304 78380 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you guys have made me want to do Computer Science < 1311193304 517570 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 4 $ fix (\t f -> t (\a b -> f (1:b) (1:zipWith (+) a b))) (\a b -> a) < 1311193333 184566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1311193352 818460 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're researchers :P < 1311193353 29249 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guess that becomes an infinite loop instead :( < 1311193355 59304 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1311193358 130710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: rip :( < 1311193365 204388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait, it looks very wrong < 1311193366 966424 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :research would probably be the better way to go for CS < 1311193367 226653 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, Oxford offers a Maths and Computer Science course < 1311193371 681687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fix (\t f -> t ...) looks wrong < 1311193373 777524 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311193379 560226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't that necessarily an infinite loop < 1311193392 154691 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm right < 1311193399 581727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: maths and computer science is a good thing to do, I think they do Haskell at Oxford < 1311193404 324955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Oberon for some reason? so weird < 1311193424 133145 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1311193428 626564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://i.imgur.com/GXlwe.jpg < 1311193433 594823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if objective c gives you a magical sense of childlike wonder < 1311193437 49357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a really boring person < 1311193480 893222 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not like this list < 1311193488 120678 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311193492 955305 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if Malbolge makes programming like breathing, ask the nurse for more oxygen. < 1311193516 903653 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1311194156 276526 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think the problem is that the obvious church representation of tuples isn't actually lazy... < 1311194180 657091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um isn't it? < 1311194225 988124 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, when doing t (\a b -> f a b) f doesn't get to start running until the tuple function is evaluated < 1311194228 763262 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311194254 187923 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*evaluating < 1311194258 46177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1311194274 186324 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311194323 166301 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :might actually have to define fst and snd to apply inside f < 1311194327 822686 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1311194370 575712 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311194382 241392 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I take it you're not doing normal order < 1311194398 183364 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: um yes i am, this is haskell... < 1311194435 329835 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal order doesn't mean _every_ data type representation becomes automatically lazy (is the moral of this) < 1311194549 141164 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\t f -> (\f -> f (t (\a b -> a)) (t (\a b -> b))) (\a b -> f (1:b) (1:zipWith (+) a b))) (\a b -> a) < 1311194553 499331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311194561 380892 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 4 $ fix (\t f -> (\f -> f (t (\a b -> a)) (t (\a b -> b))) (\a b -> f (1:b) (1:zipWith (+) a b))) (\a b -> a) < 1311194563 34830 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,3] < 1311194565 214651 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1311194578 617744 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :still slow as molasses :P < 1311194622 732923 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not as pretty any longer < 1311194739 463318 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1311194812 269560 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 4 $ fix (\t f -> (\a b -> f (1:b) (1:zipWith (+) a b)) (t (\a b -> a)) (t (\a b -> b))) (\a b -> a) < 1311194813 928115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,1,2,3] < 1311195098 101311 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : atehwa: Didn't you run the mailing list? < 1311195100 590125 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh right < 1311195104 766753 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waves
< 1311195126 920132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1311195131 396809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup atehwa < 1311195166 190519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot all about that, heh < 1311195166 678205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:24:17: elliott: well, I know the wiki, but it seems that the number of langs / year has been going up ever since 2002, and most of the new languages are really uninteresting. < 1311195168 414343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this is very true < 1311195188 980394 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i saw you mention underload, did you mention /// yet? :P < 1311195197 167180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right. you do it. < 1311195235 988879 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: i would say that anyone who can follow this room without skipping a beat doesn't need a CS bachelors < 1311195241 475498 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: /// (Slashes) is the best esolang ever. or something. < 1311195251 67605 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can jump straight to phd < 1311195254 338496 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly i don't think he's present at the moment. < 1311195272 476924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: "Hey, lemme in to your grad school. Degree? I don't need no stinkin' degree, I'm an ESOIST." < 1311195295 804137 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered mentioning ///, but assumed he already knows about Thue, and one string-rewriting thing might be enough. < 1311195309 566821 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311195314 417102 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311195318 729705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, eodermdrome maybe. but of course my memory is biased toward the languages i've worked on < 1311195330 214680 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /// is far more elegant than thue :( < 1311195333 692726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue suxxxe < 1311195351 301508 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although that may be somewhat caused by thue's sucky syntax and IO) < 1311195355 790109 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eodermdrome he seemed to find. < 1311195360 306852 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311195384 101307 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im very serious < 1311195404 391448 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe < 1311195405 557469 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311195426 211442 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: are you having a reverse Dunning-Kruger effect here? :P < 1311195440 285783 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't follow the room without skipping a beat < 1311195460 292783 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that be dunning-kruger by proxy < 1311195472 514930 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i realize that, therefore "reverse" :P < 1311195488 926573 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311195493 139825 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311195493 350872 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :("since i don't understand half what they say, they must know _everything_") < 1311195506 913430 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a dropout but it's more for sociological reasons than intellectual < 1311195532 505356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311195536 411330 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, comparing thue to /// < 1311195548 285901 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit of both < 1311195571 117024 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of the degree they start expecting you to do things like teamwork and projects < 1311195571 328766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they're not that different, but the major difference is a really really significant one < 1311195577 888198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup ais523 < 1311195586 525980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not that they're dissimilar < 1311195587 213093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I finally finished the Big PvP Ban < 1311195590 559011 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of it is a joke < 1311195591 314014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that it's like comparing php to scheme < 1311195592 816748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wut < 1311195596 506098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I've been working on for 5 days noe < 1311195598 43173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now < 1311195602 309866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1311195604 844590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a NetHack-related project < 1311195613 111495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly interesting because banning PvP in NetHack implies I'm implementing multiplayer < 1311195622 145764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I made that conclusion-jump too < 1311195628 61555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why ban PvP? PvP is fun :-P < 1311195640 513366 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pvp pvp < 1311195640 724332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are you doing that fancy -- what was it -- roguelike relativity thing? < 1311195667 559241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because PvP doesn't work < 1311195679 684916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :banning it is necessary to prevent the game crashing < 1311195690 63572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1311195691 682306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted PvP to work, I'd have to follow up by reimplementing it on a different codepath < 1311195698 442114 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311195713 310793 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite nethack < 1311195716 238738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Are you doing that fancy -- what was it -- roguelike relativity thing? < 1311195734 368362 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-185-222.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, and call it githack? < 1311195761 992563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure what you mean by that < 1311195763 905666 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't learn to cope with a degree by doing a degree < 1311195771 499188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How are you handling it < 1311195772 168868 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fallacy < 1311195783 878581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplayer Doesn't Work in roguelikes in any naive way < 1311195784 896764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1311195786 57690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: after spending 5 days editing well over half of the files in the distribution, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I fear a rewrite would be even harder < 1311195789 899544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you just mean like < 1311195792 689743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311195793 296445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1311195796 503592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So how are you doing it < 1311195811 379014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: behind-the-scenes, via peer-by-peer where there's one process per player, which handles everything that happens involving that player < 1311195824 697419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:26:15: 04:53:53: if you don't think, you can't accomplish anything. programming is a science. < 1311195824 945953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:26:27: No it isn't, it's maths mixed with the odd bit of engineering. < 1311195825 156915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:27:04: They're like the exact opposite things. < 1311195825 157085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what "a science" means, generally :-P < 1311195825 981253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the player's point of view, by putting both players into the turn order, and you have to wait for your turn to come round < 1311195836 903512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right, so you have to have everybody awake to play < 1311195839 741833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not MMORPG-style or anything < 1311195892 347815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's small-party multiplayer < 1311195898 656752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cooperative only < 1311195907 624968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So lame :P < 1311195960 20734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:04:32: in advance to all apple fanboys: stfu < 1311195961 662565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ahem < 1311195968 144156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THE NEW APPLE PRODUCTS < 1311195968 604144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1311195969 65115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1311195970 431840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEW APPLE PRODUCTS < 1311195970 886881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1311195971 129278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1311195972 763567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_ < 1311195976 36512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY CAME OUT WITH NEW APPLE PRODUCTS < 1311195977 394719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi guys < 1311195992 420144 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1311195993 861218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Heh, I just checked; and so my computer becomes obsolete already) < 1311196003 983600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to throw it out the window < 1311196014 662939 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :genetic engineered apples? < 1311196020 432216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww what, it has an i7 now? < 1311196021 854458 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont hit anyone with it that might hurt < 1311196032 563958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand a free upgrade < 1311196049 502178 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple juice, apple cider, ringo starr < 1311196085 14486 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, i'm happy you've read my very important PSA < 1311196114 451179 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipad2.0, it's worth giving up your kidney for < 1311196174 783681 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311196194 973309 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many kidney < 1311196230 300423 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311196239 880633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 kidney < 1311196241 733571 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't understand tablets what's so good about them < 1311196243 557708 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i unhip < 1311196257 270756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes ur hip bone < 1311196257 481829 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's marketing < 1311196265 563503 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by tablets I mean the gimmicky touchscreen computers < 1311196277 774178 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311196283 676765 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks. also, whoosh. < 1311196285 474961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mice kind of suck. direct touch is one answer to that. < 1311196290 798195 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again < 1311196294 235697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least the ipad doesn't have a (visible) filesytem. < 1311196294 446348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window < 1311196296 184021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystem < 1311196300 220695 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but direct touch also sucks < 1311196301 33251 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :by isolating certain hardware configurations and naming them platforms, a company can get rich < 1311196330 688759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: for typing sure, dunno about for other things < 1311196348 493931 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to obscure the screen, for one < 1311196371 97587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that any different to, i dunno, a whiteboard, or a book, or anything else < 1311196375 865177 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311196381 80735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty good at keeping my fingers out of the way < 1311196391 949795 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on what's happening < 1311196409 759228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't worked out what I'd use a tablet computer for, if I had one < 1311196410 893118 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the interface designers aren't idiots < 1311196412 441304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not convinced touch is a good idea and the ipad has apple lockdown shit but < 1311196420 219778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not really properly portable, and the keyboard's aren't good enough for serious programming work < 1311196424 60774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*keyboards < 1311196439 919977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IMO, the iPad is basically Apple releasing its next computer model a decade early < 1311196447 589802 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311196454 226071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think they found a genuine gap in the market < 1311196458 913752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure it's a very large one < 1311196468 951288 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next computer model: not for serious programming work????? < 1311196471 839265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means more unacceptable Apple lockdown, and lots of other crap, but it seems clear to me that the current path of computer evolution is a dead-end < 1311196477 438807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Apple care about developers? < 1311196486 186705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all they need to do is release XCode for iPad and they're done < 1311196521 688789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'd really need to design a new language syntax for being easily written on a tablet < 1311196525 46753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to write, say, C on one < 1311196533 441934 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311196542 542833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing is pretty much the main issue with direct touch < 1311196556 133589 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flowcharts flowcharts flowcharts < 1311196656 230666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there have been interesting suggestions that what's needed is a force-feedback touchscreen < 1311196659 752442 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I managed to humiliate myself IRL today < 1311196663 896738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could form physical keys that you could feel and press < 1311196668 671042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd work like a mechanical keyboard < 1311196682 817392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a nifty idea, especially if you can make it into a Braille display too < 1311196752 394284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes; it's not clear how you can do that, though, but if it was done, at a sufficiently good resolution, that would be amazingly impressive < 1311196801 418503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the other problem with tablets is, if you're using a large portion of it as a keyboard, why not put a keyboard there rather than a screen? < 1311196812 46316 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazingly impressive useless gimmick. why can't it have a port for keyboardery < 1311196822 333212 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a builtin keyboard yeah < 1311196829 914336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the trend nowadays is for systems to have fewer and fewer ports < 1311196840 223375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and peripherals generally < 1311196842 737987 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad trend < 1311196869 438084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to own a USB floppy drive (and have had to use it on occasion), but I bet most people have no way to read floppy disks nowadays unless they have a desktop PC or really old laptop < 1311196878 571990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : amazingly impressive useless gimmick. why can't it have a port for keyboardery < 1311196884 924262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You realise that there are other uses for tactile feedback? < 1311196890 329238 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311196890 577366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if GUI buttons gave actual feedback, for intsance < 1311196891 475087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance < 1311196911 779255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: And assuming it had multiple levels, you could do all sorts of stuff < 1311196919 671757 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also hate gui buttons < 1311196941 856233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you just want a linguistic-style interface of course nothing to do with touch at all will interest you < 1311196956 766183 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311197108 20059 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can have an exception while displaying the exception string. < 1311197138 236983 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a function of how lambdabot is programmed. i recall a previous version bailed out on a second one. < 1311197141 540459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone found an exploit on Google Webmaster Tools that let them remove arbitrary sites from the Google index < 1311197152 888048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks GitHub notifications
< 1311197153 539856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311197155 378509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, you could change the query string of an otherwise valid removal request < 1311197177 664356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty silly mistake to make < 1311197183 745090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a moderately common one < 1311197204 200984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the tool in question's been temporarily disabled until it could be fixed) < 1311197206 272916 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's just about putting catch in the function handling an exception from an outer catch < 1311197230 271779 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "if you're using a large portion of it as a keyboard, why not put a keyboard there rather than a screen?" -- because in very many use cases (browsing...) you're for the most part not using a keyboard. Having a physical one would be comparable to having the virtual one always-on. < 1311197238 234358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: indeed < 1311197268 83948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm sure they don't mind the fact that there's then also no need to consider different regional keyboard layouts in hardware.) < 1311197275 590693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: monqy is who said that < 1311197276 738217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1311197347 920495 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was a direct copypasta from an ais523 comment. < 1311197374 839654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I was thinking about that < 1311197399 853225 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally I'd prefer browsing with keys over fingers < 1311197430 347259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311197458 718250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally browse with a mouse < 1311197469 633179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've been wondering if using a keyboard to navigate would work better < 1311197475 799405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no, but I'm not sure < 1311197485 766455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I browse with my nose. (Not really, but it sorta-rhymes.) < 1311197493 94996 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine fingers would be clumsy < 1311197502 117573 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :links too close together, touch the wrong one < 1311197576 285624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: meh; that's a problem with my iPhone, but tablets are much bigger < 1311197579 936220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even with my iPhone I rarely misclick < 1311198146 152351 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres nothing wrong with keyboards... they don't like this idea < 1311198157 94640 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't kill the keyboard with a touchscreen < 1311198172 636986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all a conspiracy man < 1311198210 780871 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keyboards are cheap < 1311198222 405872 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as far as computers go they're a commodity < 1311198234 73584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're fairly perfect < 1311198252 742084 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for being out and about < 1311198353 785173 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what the kb is for < 1311198419 154111 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure if research was done between writing a 3000 word essay on an ipad vs writing it on a laptop the laptop would win < 1311198441 807329 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then people would argue that it's due to familiarity with the keyboard that they like the keyboard. < 1311198469 205489 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question then is whether there is any level at which a person could enjoy a touchpad keyboard more than a regular keyboard < 1311198502 292503 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it may turn out the ipad is for writing things like urls or using 140 character twitter < 1311198540 626810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : im sure if research was done between writing a 3000 word essay on an ipad vs writing it on a laptop the laptop would win < 1311198545 225154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes because the only thing people do on computers is type < 1311198548 694212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ONLY THING < 1311198557 882126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they're called typewriters < 1311198651 804772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'd prefer a laptop to a tablet because most of what I do on a computer is in fact typign < 1311198653 164373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typing < 1311198660 368766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I acknowledge that other people might do other things on theirs < 1311198663 830816 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311198670 240785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that different systems might be better for them as a result < 1311198702 26933 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311198713 793751 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waves back at oerjan, elliott.
< 1311198751 793511 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I managed to find out about /// myself, because it had enough backreferences :) < 1311198757 758594 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311198783 988516 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the patent hounds are gnashing over these "gestures" < 1311198807 363396 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you make TASes yourself? < 1311198814 898837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm working on a NetHack TAS < 1311198829 743921 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, funny how you started by mentioning /// and eodermdrome, because those two were exactly the ones I found valuable myself. :) < 1311198832 198230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit unusual in the TAS community in that I don't make TASes without a license from the game's developers to use the ROM for the purpose < 1311198850 974938 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be lots of more interesting graph-rewriting languages for undirected graphs, though. < 1311198861 756521 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which leaves you only working on Nethack? :P < 1311198868 823947 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: if you look carefully, you'll note i wrote most of the programs in them :) < 1311198872 508580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed < 1311198878 255406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you own the game and rip the ROM yourself, you can do that legally without asking anyone, AFAIK < 1311198880 171772 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-185-222.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311198889 771042 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Quite. < 1311198898 189603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so, in the UK (although I'm not completely sure); but I don't have ROM-dumping equipment < 1311198907 782503 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to define a rewriting from SK combinator calculus to Eodermdrome graphs, but I couldn't define graph duplication, which I'd need to implement S. < 1311198918 420305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose modern enough games, which come on CD or whatever, don't even need ROM-dumping, you can just read the CD directly < 1311198928 245769 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311198943 313009 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, though most of the CD-based systems are a pain to emulate. < 1311198952 348870 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally, I'm surprised they're TASing Playstation games now. < 1311198954 689806 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and I agree that /// is far more elegant than Thue, mainly because it has first-class rewrite rules. < 1311198967 238667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: like i said, you might want to ask ais523 too (he created underload and eodermdrome, FWIW) < 1311199002 804722 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: psp,ps2,gamecube is the main challenges lately in emulation field i believe < 1311199011 719601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: graph duplication is a pain to do in Eodermdrome; you can't do it on general graphs < 1311199030 808525 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really the area of ROM duplication is fuzzy < 1311199031 37186 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is basically done < 1311199034 69298 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 This Is Gallifrey < 1311199035 883626 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: No. < 1311199042 558196 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idQRiLZukG0 < 1311199047 108349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're only using a subset, so you could match against those < 1311199053 431071 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: "Abandoned" doesn't mean "finished". < 1311199069 109105 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok i admit they never crafted them to perfection. < 1311199072 735279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major issue in Eodermdrome is that after a while you run out of letters < 1311199079 59587 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, SNES emulation is *pretty close* to perfection. < 1311199090 878582 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is NES and Gameboy... < 1311199099 984517 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole gameboy series is great < 1311199108 333924 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i lost myself there < 1311199116 784997 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Playstation and N64 emulators are utterly *horrible* thus far. < 1311199126 582166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: psp,ps2,gamecube is the main challenges lately in emulation field i believe < 1311199128 397516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely wii, not gamecube < 1311199131 813320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamecube emulation is pretty good IIRC < 1311199142 687547 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wii and Gamecube emulation are nearly the same problem. < 1311199145 538160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311199146 217087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311199152 857826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with wii there's always the controller < 1311199157 363871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're done on the same emulator < 1311199158 138880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :making an emulator not even that useful without it < 1311199158 349757 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311199158 695545 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1311199158 906303 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1311199169 688658 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe it's just that for one thing, hardware needs are advancing a lot. < 1311199169 899133 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but it's bluetooth < 1311199173 519555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, there's an accepted Wii TAS, but not an accepted GameCube TAS < 1311199178 102818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even a submitted one < 1311199193 651989 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cheaper to buy the console in question than to upgrade your hardware enough to emulate it better < 1311199212 393082 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Actually, Wii emulation is playable on commodity hardware ATM. < 1311199222 663040 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your definition of commodity < 1311199227 562214 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's true < 1311199232 782814 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Wii is quintopia quite weak < 1311199240 427471 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, well, this time I'd only need graph duplication for a well-defined subset of graphs, but that's tricky enough anyway < 1311199242 430766 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wii is definitely easier to emulate than the PS2. < 1311199248 86106 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably easier than the PS1, actually. < 1311199257 36089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Wii is quintopia quite weak --coppro < 1311199272 37067 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a dozen processors to emulate in sync is pretty much asking for painful emulation. < 1311199272 596897 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have seen through my subliminal messaging < 1311199301 928545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: the real issue with Eodermdrome, other than implementing it, is working out which operations you can and can't do < 1311199315 188910 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, incidentally, is why there's still an unemulated game for the SNES. < 1311199326 492874 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamecube emulation is more of a mess than ps1 < 1311199349 738479 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: you might want to take a look at deadfish, possibly not for the language itself (;D) but for all the other langs that implement it < 1311199350 887409 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reasons are fair enough of course < 1311199370 474266 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware power is always important. < 1311199385 902577 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise that the Gamecube had a dozen CPUs that needed emulation. < 1311199411 340662 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hl1Trh1aZo < 1311199415 794123 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will find that the dolphin emulator community is a bubbling soup of incompatibility reports < 1311199425 550517 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should try it, though, because eodermdrome -> SK would be much more straightforward than eodermdrome -> BCT -> Tag system -> string rewriting -> TM -> lambda calculus < 1311199440 743436 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok < 1311199447 42290 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I kind of like Vale Decem less than This is Gallifrey < 1311199448 466137 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its getting better perhaps i dunno < 1311199449 694294 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PS1 community would be, too. If it hadn't all been abandoned in unison a while back. < 1311199459 124746 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ... leave < 1311199464 554958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what caused that? < 1311199471 819919 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No *idea*. < 1311199493 617786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that looks almost like you're trying to hint at something, and I don't get it < 1311199511 287367 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Though I suspect it's somewhat similar to what happened to zsnes; a few developers left and nobody stepped in to replace them. < 1311199517 413646 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving it all a stagnant wasteland. < 1311199531 267469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1311199540 746534 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my pc is sub-commodity < 1311199553 410178 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the only real development happening being random UI tweaks here and there. < 1311199553 801334 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311199555 376094 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mednafen seems to be the hotspot these days < 1311199557 855988 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH FOR FUCKING FUCK"S SAKE < 1311199611 867270 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:52:49 Sgeo_: ... leave < 1311199622 362735 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, coppro seems to have control over my Internet connection now < 1311199626 567817 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are your favourite languages / findings since 2004? BCT, eodermdrome, ///, underload already mentioned. < 1311199639 370344 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Uh, that's just a frontend for a bunch of emulators. < 1311199667 160966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: hmm... I don't think I'll ever top Underload, and that was mostly an accident < 1311199687 853822 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought it was an infrastructure? < 1311199691 379384 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) what about others' work? < 1311199711 743526 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, it's a bunch of emulators tied together into a single interface. < 1311199718 753485 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a brand new router < 1311199723 883392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311199727 382334 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it's not likely the router's fault < 1311199750 332728 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though at least they tend to use best-in-class emulators. < 1311199757 338500 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: huh; I'd heard there were multiple frontends. But then again, I know little < 1311199775 737951 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "hotspot" for emulator development varies based on the system. < 1311199817 503754 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the older ones are abandoned for having basically *finished*. < 1311199824 497360 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. NES, Genesis. < 1311199831 437080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: in case you can't tell, 99 percent of esolangs nowadays are bad brainfuck derivatives < 1311199834 974596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or complete nonsense < 1311199846 353044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only weapon we have left is snarky comments on the wiki < 1311199846 853871 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some have a single crazy bastard as the only real development. e.g. SNES. < 1311199854 233915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: I'm trying to remind myself of what's been created recently < 1311199861 712872 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others last had major emulator improvements a decade ago. e.g. N64, PS1. < 1311199872 347103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare that I'm impressed by an esolang < 1311199895 671115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most are boring derivatives rather than new concepts < 1311199899 572440 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(said crazy bastard is also astoundingly good at it.) < 1311200023 69122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: oh right, I rather liked BF Joust < 1311200037 496117 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311200038 395488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not originally mine, but I ended up mostly responsible for maintaining/promoting it) < 1311200151 573763 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a few ideas but I need to flesh them out more and I'm a bit afraid they're boring or too similar to other things. also I'm horrible at describing things. < 1311200180 283298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my languages, I spend years designing them, then put a half-baked description on the wiki when people beg me for details < 1311200203 450831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think Feather is the most infamous case, where it wasn't even me who created the page, and the language is nowhere near finished, and probably will never be finished because ouch, Feather) < 1311200424 763494 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sounds familiar < 1311200451 981412 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and already in 2000, most "new" esolangs were like, "hey guys I know how we can improve on brainfuck" < 1311200469 789895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think genuinely great and innovative esolangs can be designed < 1311200481 687480 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :beerfest showed how... name it: headfuck < 1311200481 979778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm having difficulty thinking of one, and there may not be another one for years < 1311200489 858229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather is mythology :-P < 1311200494 985427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311200507 344851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad that I admitted its existence, though < 1311200521 525975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the beginning, the LORD created Feather, and saw that it was good; but could not disclose it to the mortal people, for their minds were weak and not sufficiently malleable < 1311200522 263376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's added a fun meme, even if it's a headscrewy one < 1311200529 477906 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sarumpaet. The program is an unlabeled, undirected graph. The program executes by applying one rewriting rule. < 1311200535 263970 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :headfuck is what you call someone while chewing on a glass beer mug intimidatingly < 1311200541 484436 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by the way, if you guys _haven't_ checked out kayak, I find that quite a remarkable one. < 1311200549 805790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: that's a bit like Eodermdrome, isn't it? < 1311200565 380398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: oh right, I remember that one < 1311200594 204654 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a bit, yes. < 1311200597 715380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked ABCDXYZ's (and BackFlip's) investigation of the same concepts, but the execution on ABCDXYZ was really off < 1311200600 21959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have any esolangs ever been referenced in other media? eg. comics, animations, cinema, novels < 1311200625 931492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of any examples < 1311200627 192492 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311200632 72743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than the occasional art < 1311200634 210181 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that even regular langs haven't < 1311200641 828672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a very unfinished esolang-based computer game somewhere < 1311200643 174032 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also spent a lot of time designing a language for rewriting labeled undirected graphs, but nothing much came out of that (since we thought a reference implementation would be essential) < 1311200657 876244 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheldon on big bang theory definitely would know at least 1 < 1311200701 872225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer games have quite a few esolang references, actually; Enigma has a brainfuck-related problem; and Rubicon is based around RUBE (it's a pretty good and fun free computer game, but it no longer runs on my computer) < 1311200719 709141 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: lets not forget that sometimes the use for something only occurs decades later :D < 1311200724 750852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also tried esolang-generated music, but it doesn't come out too well < 1311200745 933881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fugue really needs some optimisation for mass stack moves, otherwise Lost Kingdoms comes out too repetitive < 1311200756 295470 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repelago. There's an infinite hexagonal grid, populated with polyhexes. They move around randomly, with the condition that no two polyhexes can ever become adjacent. < 1311200776 483488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, noit o' mnain worb, that's a great language < 1311200783 535669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on much the same principle < 1311200834 258570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still unsure of what its probabilistic computational class is like < 1311200854 937452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice to tweak it to make it TC (by infinitely repeating the arena to start with and possibly making semantics changes) < 1311200864 903317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you wouldn't even need to break symmetry, the randomness does that for you < 1311200867 452158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: by the way, you should contact oklopol, he's a world-renowned esolangs professor < 1311200875 719708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: claim may be about to be made reasonable by ais523) < 1311200890 73359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: meh, if you treat the claim as relative rather than absolute, it's a good one < 1311200933 314097 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOMW is quite different, really. It has bobules, which are just monominoes. I don't really see how it's possible to compute at all, though I wouldn't be surprised. < 1311200958 928193 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned backflip, that was a nice one, which also reminds me of smatiny (which is nice even if it's a simple variation of smetana) < 1311200980 756015 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, Repelago, ABCDXYZ. < 1311200983 80223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smatiny is great, indeed < 1311200987 214522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also somewhat accidental, I think < 1311200998 419222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: you compute probabilistically < 1311201025 995420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, does noit o' mnain worb have a fixed lowercase n at the start, like brainfuck? < 1311201031 32505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it does < 1311201031 951713 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, it does. < 1311201042 628907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about at the start of a sentence? < 1311201097 297807 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: noit o'mnain worb is old enough that I know it "well" < 1311201107 125161 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you make something like an AND or NOT gave in NOMW? < 1311201116 882094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: are those scare quotes or emphasis quotes < 1311201144 369262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: the idea is to do it along a similar line to electronics; concentration of bobules is the equivalent to potential, motion to current < 1311201162 622094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic debate is as to whether you can make a sufficiently-high-quality transistor to do calculation < 1311201171 240291 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah. < 1311201177 624533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can make an amplifier that amplifies by a factor of more than 1, everything is fine < 1311201183 948093 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-120.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1311201220 652481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's possible, you do it by making a weak signal block the exits of a one-way strip, so that a stronger signal doesn't flow through it and instead comes to the output < 1311201230 289053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have amplification, you can do the other logic operations based on that < 1311201241 579874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trivially, but I think it's doable < 1311201303 597639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, our latest batch of spambots have a real headlight addiction < 1311201304 870789 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, that sounds accurate. < 1311201411 621590 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's like. Suppose you've got a T-shape. Inputs come in from the right and from below. There are diodes in front of the path below preventing bobules from moving upward. < 1311201477 704886 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the bottom input is 1, then it will pass the signal. If the bottom input is 0, it will (mostly) suppress the signal. If the bottom input is Z, it will, again, pass the signal. < 1311201575 192494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the issue that makes me wonder if that really works, is that you're going to need to drain bobules from the bottom, or the top input will fill the region up and then conduct < 1311201580 414361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to drain fast enough to drain the top input < 1311201590 150759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do that, then maybe the bottom input won't be strong enough to actually block the diodes < 1311201633 212948 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? Either you're draining, or you're not. If you're not draining, the signal passes. If you are, it doesn't. < 1311201650 502087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:FALSE&curid=1448&diff=23951&oldid=21346 < 1311201653 606554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, _this_ is really irksome < 1311201660 381467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing links is one thing, changing /spelling/? < 1311201661 653248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: well, you have a weak signal going into the below < 1311201672 264029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has to be drained, or the transmitter will conduct even if it isn't there < 1311201686 894347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you drain it too fast, it won't actually allow the right input to continue < 1311201707 711252 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1311201746 22236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :real-life transistors don't have this issue, because they can create energy barriers, a phenomenon that doesn't exist in NOMW at all < 1311201752 774856 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. 1 and Z both pass. 0 forces a 0. < 1311201780 915462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, ingenious; the bottom "signal" is in fact whether or not you're draining? < 1311201784 909259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainbool#Converting_Brainbool_to_Brainfuck umm, isn't this really excessive? < 1311201788 534393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[--]+ seems an adequate logical not < 1311201795 470599 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pretty much, yes. < 1311201817 280969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then you've designed a field-effect rather than bipolar transistor, but that's still enough for semiconductor-completeness < 1311201849 759543 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um [--]+ isn't guaranteed to halt < 1311201877 664781 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it always gives a 1 < 1311201890 936034 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO :: IO a -> a < um < 1311201892 359704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right [] is while not if :D < 1311201899 207344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: keyword "unsafe" < 1311201908 560372 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What situations would it be used in? < 1311201970 794144 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: it's original intended use was for FFI functions, which are imported as in IO but sometimes they're real effect is pure... < 1311201978 276240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: ones you're not qualified to encounter :D < 1311201979 193203 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*their < 1311201991 740344 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has been used for many more evil things < 1311202002 851107 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obfuscation? < 1311202023 755063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to map 8-bit to 1-bit BF, just change + and - to (+)*128 and (-)*128 respectively < 1311202025 295335 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: it's used as a brittle hack for getting global variables, for example < 1311202046 359980 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mutable variables, that is) < 1311202061 448605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was added just because they could < 1311202064 573020 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, I know of one potentially useful binary gate, and two potentially useful unary gates: http://pastebin.com/iXNJmkDD < 1311202105 258359 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was part of the ffi addendum afair < 1311202125 632125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the T-gate is probably the basis of any sensible NOMW program < 1311202138 74187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with wire connection < 1311202150 837509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we probably also need the logic level L and H, which correspond to a weak signal 0 or 1 < 1311202162 215107 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice that it's not apparently possible to discriminate betwen 1 and Z. < 1311202172 923404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, if you wire an L to a 1, you get a 1, as the L can't sink fast enough to keep up with the 1 < 1311202182 326723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how you discriminate between 1 and Z < 1311202183 486655 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst (1,unsafePerformIO $ printStrLn "teehee") < 1311202183 748663 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, you could probably do that with an interved T-gate. < 1311202184 943991 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `unsafePerformIO'Not in scope: `printStrLn' < 1311202189 19543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 1 wired to L = 1, 0 wired to L = L < 1311202191 619001 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and that, too. < 1311202191 828680 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1311202196 184289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Z wired to L = L < 1311202207 637415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 is typically quite easy to distinguish from L < 1311202214 350341 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: that would defeat half of lambdabot's approach to sandboxing :P < 1311202229 280649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need to end up going fully analog at least to start with < 1311202232 551656 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's putStrLn < 1311202280 523452 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I dunno, let me see what can be done if you toss in the inverted T-gate. < 1311202294 927480 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.IO.Unsafe; main = print $ fst (1,unsafePerformIO $ putStrLn "teehee") < 1311202301 300732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a T-gate with the diodes going the other way is clearly possible, if you change from n-type to p-type wire < 1311202301 979504 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1311202316 402331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, whether you change the program from starting with empty wire to changing with full wire) < 1311202316 995555 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: as you see the unsafePerformIO is not triggered < 1311202318 882840 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you have diodes going upward instead of downward. 0 or Z as the lower input will make it simply conduct, but 1 as the lower input will saturate it with 1s. < 1311202362 987143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: not quite; if you have 1 as the lower input and 0 as the upper input, you end up with about 0.5, a state known as X in VHDL < 1311202371 58286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VHDL has named more or less every value for a boolean that you might think of) < 1311202383 795216 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's true. < 1311202410 261265 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: another use for unsafePerformIO is for implementing things like Debug.Trace.trace < 1311202417 197241 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it... < 1311202452 587562 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how strong the upper input is, I think. < 1311202477 784847 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311202477 992413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311202484 275547 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.IO.Unsafe; main = print $ snd (1,unsafePerformIO $ putStrLn "teehee") < 1311202491 385617 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :teehee < 1311202503 707443 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311202508 71595 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.IO.Unsafe; main = print $ snd (1,unsafePerformIO $ putStr "teehee") < 1311202512 861878 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :teehee() < 1311202557 477035 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the T and RT gates act as I expect, then these are our gates: http://pastebin.com/hLsUGri6 < 1311202636 301136 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND and OR on 0 and 1 are there plain as day. NOT couldn't be too difficult... < 1311202774 127729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1311202775 213282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (99::Int) :: String) < 1311202779 859445 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"" < 1311202782 848384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311202789 526903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how that even works < 1311202824 216407 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311202842 797228 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, NOT is impossible using these gates. They're all increasing, given the ordering 0 < Z < 1. < 1311202971 562433 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any idea whether it's possible to make a non-increasing function? < 1311202991 960080 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be surprised if it were. < 1311203001 441701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: you can do minus a constant < 1311203010 222647 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's still an increasing function. < 1311203026 293407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by putting a drain past a narrow wire so it can only drain a fraction of the signal < 1311203042 863984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1311203242 519650 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was weird hm < 1311203250 719652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311203253 660749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311203262 466654 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (99::Int) :: String) < 1311203267 196092 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"" < 1311203274 168719 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and repeatable too... < 1311203301 584162 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (99::Int) :: [Maybe Bool]) < 1311203305 409892 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[] < 1311203326 753649 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it seems to be interpreted as an empty list < 1311203334 832722 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that the presence of a bobule can never cause the absence of one later on. < 1311203371 404633 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe it has to do with the tag bits on ghc pointers < 1311203382 786996 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a really marginal case where that sort of thing can happen, I think. < 1311203392 637225 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (99::Int) :: Maybe Bool) < 1311203397 102395 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing < 1311203417 562379 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (Nothing :: Maybe Bool) :: String) < 1311203422 226034 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"" < 1311203443 531771 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (Nothing :: Maybe Bool) :: Int) -- >:) < 1311203448 380794 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1113251472 < 1311203458 616423 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (Nothing :: Maybe Bool) :: Int) -- >:) < 1311203463 475392 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1107496592 < 1311203471 720587 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not quite as repeatable :P < 1311203479 690092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: maybe it has to do with the tag bits on ghc pointers < 1311203480 408397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1311203483 790373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably means "first constructor" < 1311203484 698654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. [] < 1311203488 959647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't even look at the rest < 1311203490 603551 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that can't happen. Essentially, a bobule picks a random one of its 9 surrounding squares. If that square is impassable, nothing happens; otherwise, it swaps places with that square. < 1311203494 772070 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311203519 80707 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (99::Int) :: Either () Bool) < 1311203523 893063 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left () < 1311203532 116673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (99::Int) :: Either () Bool) < 1311203532 760986 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, but wait. Under the "bobules swap instead of colliding" model, a bobule can go through a diode in the wrong direction, by being replaced with a bobule going the other way. < 1311203536 812424 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left () < 1311203549 368739 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (99::Int) :: Either Bool Ordering) < 1311203554 151942 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left True < 1311203560 924813 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (99::Int) :: Either Bool Ordering) < 1311203565 282324 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left True < 1311203715 501795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ordering? :D < 1311203745 712976 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [minBound..maxBound :: Ordering] < 1311203747 384529 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [LT,EQ,GT] < 1311203845 572187 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith compare [2, 4..20] [10..20] < 1311203846 921396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [LT,LT,LT,LT,LT,LT,LT,LT,EQ,GT] < 1311203862 148397 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1311203881 642660 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith compare [0, 2..20] [5..15] < 1311203882 907674 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311203883 430589 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [LT,LT,LT,LT,LT,EQ,GT,GT,GT,GT,GT] < 1311203923 169826 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sortBy (const $ const GT) [1..20] < 1311203924 471561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [20,19,18,17,16,15,14,13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1] < 1311203946 929285 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sortBy (const $ const LT) [1..20] < 1311203948 441916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20] < 1311203970 903561 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sortBy (const $ const GT) "pumpkin brigade" < 1311203972 301815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "edagirb nikpmup" < 1311204122 107277 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sortBy (\x y -> case (ord x + ord y) `mod` 3 of 0 -> LT; 1 -> EQ; 2 -> GT) "pumpkin brigade" < 1311204123 475537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "pmprin buikdage" < 1311204162 412465 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. If you subtract instead of adding, you get a rock-paper-scissors ordering. < 1311204167 385756 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sortBy (\x y -> case (ord x - ord y) `mod` 3 of 0 -> LT; 1 -> EQ; 2 -> GT) "pumpkin brigade" < 1311204168 766251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "epmpgaduirikn b" < 1311204260 507502 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your case can be replaced with toEnum btw < 1311204309 899826 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, true. < 1311204322 946099 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this isn't an RPS ordering. This is: < 1311204343 386098 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sortBy (\x y -> case (ord x - ord y) `mod` 3 of 0 -> EQ; 1 -> GT; 2 -> LT) "pumpkin brigade" < 1311204344 891977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "adkn beuiripmpg" < 1311205772 5387 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.IO.Unsafe; main = print $ snd (1,unsafePerformIO . sequence . replicate 3 $ putStrLn "teehee") < 1311205776 948248 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :teehee < 1311205898 276142 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason i changed it to putStr :) < 1311205912 358633 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1311205919 950896 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src replicateM < 1311205920 779685 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM n x = sequence (replicate n x) < 1311206402 584135 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1311206409 218042 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src replicateM_ < 1311206409 998597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM_ n x = sequence_ (replicate n x) < 1311206463 997635 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f m n = error $ show m ++ ' ' : show n in sortBy f [1..10] < 1311206468 488711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311206475 679279 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1311206502 945910 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f m n = error $ show m ++ ' ' : show n in sortBy f [1..10] < 1311206505 848737 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: 1 2 < 1311206522 776236 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f 1 2 = LT; f m n = error $ show m ++ ' ' : show n in sortBy f [1..10] < 1311206525 185295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: 3 4 < 1311206579 586 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f x y | (x,y) `elem` zip [1,3] [2,4] = compare x y; f m n = error $ show m ++ ' ' : show n in sortBy f [1..10] < 1311206581 93629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: 1 3 < 1311206594 581711 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f x y | (x,y) `elem` zip [1,3,1] [2,4,3] = compare x y; f m n = error $ show m ++ ' ' : show n in sortBy f [1..10] < 1311206596 609635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: 5 6 < 1311206637 655578 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f x y | (x,y) `elem` zip [1,3,1,5] [2,4,3,6] = compare x y; f m n = error $ show m ++ ' ' : show n in sortBy f [1..10] < 1311206640 209977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: 7 8 < 1311206667 832565 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f x y | (x,y) `elem` zip [1,3,1,5,7,5] [2,4,3,6,8,7] = compare x y; f m n = error $ show m ++ ' ' : show n in sortBy f [1..10] < 1311206670 114075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: 1 5 < 1311207010 566049 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311207074 998682 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sortBy (\x y -> case (ord x - ord y) `mod` 3 of 0 -> EQ; 1 -> GT; 2 -> LT) "copumpkin cobrigade" < 1311207076 379988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "adn becoucoripmpgki" < 1311207137 972574 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/tetris < 1311207144 532762 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting there are several common substrings to without the co < 1311207148 332500 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I see < 1311207148 728138 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1311207219 651787 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact just a k and i moved < 1311208714 873025 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error (error "yo") < 1311208716 268738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: yo < 1311208874 826205 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, Anki expects me to recall 51 Finnish words and learn an additional 20. < 1311208877 182671 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am screwed. :P < 1311208891 887248 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error $! error "yo" < 1311208892 907858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: yo < 1311208918 593338 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311208934 520601 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error undefined < 1311208936 126859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311208941 612682 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good one < 1311208953 340915 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :tama mika on? se on bussi < 1311208963 849992 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why error (error "yo") doesn't give two... < 1311208982 248381 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error $ ' ':error "yo" < 1311208983 333405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: yo < 1311208991 658848 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats my finnish vocab. i believe it means "what is that? that is bus" < 1311209002 526211 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error $ error "yo" < 1311209003 704729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: yo < 1311209004 438040 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (error .) "yo" < 1311209005 79105 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something similar < 1311209006 418303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E... < 1311209007 199191 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311209026 363674 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error (error "yo") < 1311209027 219887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: yo < 1311209036 843044 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this is something subtle... < 1311209048 488890 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ($) < 1311209048 922108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f $ x = f x < 1311209057 906908 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error (error (error "yo")) < 1311209059 703947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: yo < 1311209085 705439 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error $ error $ error $ "yo" < 1311209086 654252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: yo < 1311209092 643881 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there were a rewriting rule, i'd expect it to trigger with $ as well < 1311209125 608634 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311209149 73269 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311209174 273689 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: shachaf: do any of you have any idea why this differs? < 1311209180 501505 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311209183 870217 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got disconnected < 1311209202 971304 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's kind of weird. < 1311209207 532954 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: lambdabot gives different printout for error (error "yo") and error $ error "yo" < 1311209207 912835 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error (error "yo") < 1311209208 697420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: yo < 1311209213 287361 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error $ error "yo" < 1311209214 398415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: yo < 1311209223 14684 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, someone brought that up a while ago < 1311209225 91730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > error (error (error "yo")) < 1311209225 404881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: yo < 1311209225 619487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > error $ error $ error $ "yo" < 1311209225 619675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: yo < 1311209230 660249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't ($) lazy? < 1311209236 485943 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error `id` error "foo" < 1311209236 848751 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember why it is, but I think there was discussion about it on haskell-cafe < 1311209237 334071 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: foo < 1311209241 114390 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some sort of bug somewhere < 1311209258 875528 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id error (error "foo") < 1311209259 659122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: foo < 1311209264 495634 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they _should_ be identical. i'd be extremely surprised it f $ x isn't rewritten to be identical to f x inside ghc < 1311209266 929904 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error (error "foo") < 1311209267 971563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: foo < 1311209282 935443 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (let x = error in x) (error "foo") < 1311209283 847877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: foo < 1311209293 753764 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (let x = error in x `seq` x) (error "foo") < 1311209294 670361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: foo < 1311209299 722964 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (let x = error in id x) (error "foo") < 1311209300 583772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: foo < 1311209306 219922 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting. < 1311209460 723610 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2011-February/088905.html < 1311209696 627302 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So GHC knows that error is strict, but not that id error is? < 1311209700 666044 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense, I guess. < 1311209722 161496 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But in version (B), < 1311209722 368746 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the demand analyzer only knows that ($) is strict in its first < 1311209723 463478 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argument -- it's not strict in its second." < 1311209730 990375 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id error (error "foo") < 1311209731 901566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: *Exception: foo < 1311209733 64521 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> error (error "foo") < 1311209734 176013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: foo < 1311209773 999138 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If ($) were getting inlined, the code would look the same coming into < 1311209774 206498 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :demand analysis in both cases, so you wouldn't see a difference. So < 1311209774 206699 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing you're compiling with -O0. < 1311209774 878423 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311209881 408321 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :-funroll-loops < 1311209957 259095 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-funroll-all-loops < 1311209973 731855 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-funroll-in-the-hay < 1311210657 357334 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :soittaa < 1311212499 636693 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311212712 521388 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311212782 597370 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU JOIN :#esoteric < 1311212866 714789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I'm having nostalgia for when we could see the glass from the floor < 1311212867 913729 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :520) I'm having nostalgia for when we could see the glass from the floor < 1311212932 200473 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there context < 1311213567 684847 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311213772 391321 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161190.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311213892 384169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: minecraft < 1311213896 574920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also technically a jok < 1311213897 5405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1311216057 511374 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" thats my finnish vocab. i believe it means "what is that? that is bus" <<< i would translate it as "th�s wh�t is? it is a bus." < 1311216070 231281 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough :> < 1311216092 521601 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly < 1311216103 198705 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wahahaha < 1311216146 391004 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly understandable < 1311216168 698336 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. somehow that phrase stuck < 1311216193 362759 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a similar sentence that means something would be "mik� t�m� on? se on bussi" < 1311216216 612964 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. i wouldn't know how to create such a character < 1311216220 854429 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this? it is a bus. < 1311216302 129593 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so im studying some haskell .. very beginner stuff < 1311216310 617403 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how not to know how to make such a character, so i certainly have some sympathy < 1311216339 670694 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1311216354 785727 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh haskell < 1311216364 216880 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not finnish < 1311216365 652421 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311216369 69301 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have just learned fst (1,'a') and snd ("abc",2) < 1311216374 554693 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to ask why the fuck everyone's learning it < 1311216380 119889 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay haskell < 1311216382 936554 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll just ask < 1311216387 860169 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck is everyone learning it? < 1311216405 708272 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reasons should be obvious < 1311216413 775598 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: on beesti languagi < 1311216430 278313 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1311216467 421535 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friend who i left behind in an old chatroom would be very happy to hear i know any haskell words < 1311216481 603302 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"besti" is occasionally used i think < 1311216511 27492 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that the toughest part to learn is pronunciation < 1311216520 648430 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst . fst . fst . fst $ (((("fst!",1),2),3),4) < 1311216522 621557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "fst!" < 1311216533 434568 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa.. slow down < 1311216536 506655 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.< < 1311216541 344915 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly
< 1311216563 912809 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: how deep expressions have you learned to evaluate so far? < 1311216579 955825 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry, obscure haskell demonstrations are obligatory on this channel < 1311216596 243303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that that was particularly obscure for haskell) < 1311216596 728249 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 4 was roughly my limit i think < 1311216598 728959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :an exercize was: Exercise 3.2 Use a combination of fst and snd to extract the character out of the tuple < 1311216599 215933 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :((1,�a�),"foo"). -- which i did < 1311216617 951273 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. rocket science < 1311216619 125782 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :snd . fst < 1311216628 777633 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. the thing is the book doesn't have the dot < 1311216638 105550 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm this brings back grave memories < 1311216638 674550 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hunch he may not have learned . and $ yet :P < 1311216660 677723 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that's fine you can use parentheses instead < 1311216669 262030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway biggest penis = snd (fst penis) < 1311216676 530990 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the k and r book wasn't referencing certain characetrs when someone tried to show me < 1311216690 331209 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is a deep concern < 1311216703 327062 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^s/referencing/showing < 1311216707 503714 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311216719 355905 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gulp < 1311216741 835420 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is probably safe < 1311216745 453351 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well haskell mostly uses just plain ascii, although there is a flag for using unicode for some stuff if you want things to look more like typeset math < 1311216773 332719 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. im gonna assume the book simply didn't introduce the . yet < 1311216779 652497 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: almost certainly < 1311216787 742450 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :however.. yeah that reminds me that my k and r book.. had missing chars < 1311216803 811613 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe they just used \circ instead < 1311216812 293807 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst (fst (fst (fst (((("fst!",1),2),3),4)))) < 1311216813 595744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "fst!" < 1311216821 199925 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :better? :) < 1311216935 781031 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wurk -> < 1311216936 28148 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1311217015 265845 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :> snd(snd (1,(2,3))) < 1311217016 439578 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: if f and g are functions, (g . f) is a new function that first applies f, and then applies g to the result. main use of this of course being obfuscation. < 1311217016 687762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1311217034 149426 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oklopol -----###
< 1311217040 551903 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklo: im not listening.. :P im not taking the combinatrics approach < 1311217056 216392 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1311217056 999050 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1311217075 371041 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i will if it ever gets there but yeah < 1311217084 577964 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get that definition? < 1311217095 895313 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you don't get that he might not get it? < 1311217105 930676 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't get that i don't get that he might not get it? < 1311217111 338631 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1311217113 822351 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you totally got that. < 1311217117 181561 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i do. < 1311217118 775300 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no math background.. i encountered a curious ebook though which seems to be good at people like me < 1311217149 930636 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but worse than no math background my brain is wired in a strange way < 1311217156 808840 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: is it that Learn You a Haskell book? it's frequently recommended although i learned haskell before that... < 1311217182 112982 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Another Haskell Tutorial by some guy Hal Daume < 1311217186 633514 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311217209 828608 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit older i think. < 1311217218 153487 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think very well. But I do think. < 1311217248 345565 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311217253 786666 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i really have to < 1311217292 291552 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :> prtStrLn "bye" < 1311217293 744801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `prtStrLn' < 1311217299 166924 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sweet < 1311217318 587556 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-s < 1311217320 384689 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: lambdabot only does expression printing, not output functions < 1311217326 43913 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1311217330 447351 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might try EgoBot instead < 1311217337 104341 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "bye" < 1311217339 545979 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1311217358 10341 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, lambdabot has many more functions imported by default < 1311217360 801178 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i got hugs < 1311217385 446426 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: these days the recommendation is the haskell platform < 1311217403 814493 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hugs is sadly completely unmaintained now < 1311217426 51432 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i used it for a long time < 1311217437 766033 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i get anywheer i will keep it in mind < 1311217470 16028 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. unrelated.. i have a curious function i would like to define < 1311217486 24191 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone was explaining the game of pennymatching to me yesterday < 1311217493 59595 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Hugs these days is a bit like using GCC 1 for your C development. < 1311217537 287093 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: oh also when you asked the thing about characters i checked your client version and you seem to be on windows. so (1) there's a character map which you can use to get strange characters (2) if you use hugs you probably want to use winhugs < 1311217604 973811 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have winhugs yeah. haskell book is ok. but once upon a time the k&r book had some troubles leaving out certain chars. ill have to check up one day if it has them < 1311217638 770500 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about pennymatching.. one curious thing is that the rules are identical for each player < 1311217664 638730 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they don't have to be defined for each player, only for a generic player. < 1311217696 708959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(im weird) < 1311217706 651782 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like nim-type games < 1311217718 780663 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. pennymatching is very very simple. < 1311217747 649246 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 players choose a binary digit (such as heads or tails) in private and then compare. < 1311217767 336074 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they are the same then player 1 wins. if they differ then player 2 wins < 1311217781 77082 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone described it to me yesterday < 1311217791 221858 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok that's probabilistic so not really nim-like < 1311217831 869812 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a simple mixed strategy game < 1311217876 839105 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, as i started to overanalyze it, i realized that of the four outcomes: 00,01,10,11 that theres no other possible win condition except "one of the players wins by getting 00 or 11" < 1311217903 681006 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er what < 1311217916 83335 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i though you said player to wins on 01 and 10 < 1311217919 490986 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*two < 1311217923 373012 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well each player supplies a binary digit to the game < 1311217953 624591 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. of the 2 players.. one of them wins on 00/11 and one of them wins on 01/10 < 1311217976 319698 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule about which player wins on which is arbitrary < 1311217990 970957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : itidus20: oh also when you asked the thing about characters i checked your client version and you seem to be on windows. so (1) there's a character map which you can use to get strange characters (2) if you use hugs you probably want to use winhugs < 1311217995 733621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what characters are strange for haskell? < 1311218001 551037 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1311218004 435259 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i know < 1311218007 249680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was asking oerjan :P < 1311218013 555559 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh haha ok < 1311218024 21489 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well he was pointing out he couldn't make finnish ä, i think < 1311218036 564492 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut and pastes: � < 1311218040 826737 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311218201 310171 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when i started to analyze this pennymatching what i found is that in order to have a fair game, whatever player 1 does, player 2 must have a 50% chance of winning < 1311218239 370346 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how to formalize the idea exactly.. but it's fascinating since the idea of fairness is recursive between the 2 players < 1311218310 223274 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :option A = 50% chance. option B = 50% chance. < 1311218357 345233 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should try drawing it for myself in paint < 1311218567 516157 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311218576 311977 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311218594 418405 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i think it depends on your definition of fair. you might also make it >= 50% i think < 1311218613 685208 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh like.. if you go heads, you have 50% chance of winning because they also have 50% chance of winning *pulls out hair* < 1311218614 948514 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1311218632 595822 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311218650 158901 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may not be any way in this game of making it > 50% for any option < 1311218658 542224 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its simple enough < 1311218688 373808 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 50 for heads: always win (for fairness: for tails: always lose) < 1311218689 415362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `for'Not in scope: `heads'Not in scope: `always'Not in scope:... < 1311218696 746711 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it wouldn't necessarily by unfair if A had a choice that guaranteed that A loses < 1311218696 954089 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vanilla coinflip < 1311218699 28988 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say that a player wins on 10/11 and the other player wins on 01/00 < 1311218715 361730 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: true.. not if they didn't know the rule < 1311218725 245934 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there wouldn't then be enough options with just heads and tails to make it fair the other way around < 1311218743 501920 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1311218757 206512 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could work if there were more than two options < 1311218761 795093 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i worded it in a very obfuscated way < 1311218786 336926 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what fascinated me most of all is the recursive way of defining a 50% chance of winning between the 2 players < 1311218832 106646 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lack the math skill to see sense in it < 1311218844 27666 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its surely something trivial < 1311218984 813016 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah. < 1311219041 365414 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you probably are calculating what's called a nash equilibrium. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_(game_theory)#Mixed_strategy it even has a link to Penny Matching < 1311219054 918633 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1311219155 166732 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311220612 753292 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :contrapumpkin < 1311220953 783456 :contrapumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :yoda < 1311220966 769047 :yoda!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :coyoda < 1311220980 891443 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoda, opposite category is in, hm? < 1311221098 515702 :coyoda!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :YodaLemma < 1311221237 568825 :canaima17242!~vit@190.199.140.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311221276 118578 :canaima17242!~vit@190.199.140.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holaa < 1311221313 380665 :canaima17242!~vit@190.199.140.4 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311221354 124372 :YodaLemma!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311224206 102582 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo|DiesAtBadTi < 1311225639 446861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311225830 255257 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, is the Unispace specification stable? < 1311225913 28 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel it is still vague about multiple labels and INTERCAL operators < 1311225936 964116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Some people (including you) can change it if you want to. Including to make it less vague, or discussion those things on the Talk page, or add other Unicode space characters, etc < 1311226003 326241 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but as always i wanted to implement it in esotope and the stability of the language is paramount ;) < 1311226059 632708 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i appreciate the choice made by Migomipo who separated Migol 09 and 11, for example < 1311226264 465316 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't completely stable yet, it is just some ideas I wrote. Feel free to update whatever is unclear or incomplete on that wiki article for Unispace. < 1311226916 198421 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap. There is a lake of sulfuric acid. < 1311226959 796235 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A naturally occuring lake of *sulfuric acid*. < 1311226980 583576 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1311226986 490529 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not that difficult < 1311227015 506229 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. Fuck. < 1311227023 825923 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens around volcanos especially < 1311227033 589295 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever watched dantes peak? < 1311227057 479510 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311227066 419866 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah, it makes sense how it can occur. < 1311227093 485862 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volcanic gas very high in sulfur bubbling into a lake — bam, sulfuric acid lake. < 1311227122 881259 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which specific one are you talking about? < 1311227141 731677 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ijen. < 1311227145 928023 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pH of 0.5. < 1311227293 122787 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew mining sulfur by hand < 1311227307 340988 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody needs that job < 1311227331 460035 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even less so sans gas mask. < 1311227413 168766 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :under no conditions < 1311227576 596541 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's different levels of "fuck no", though. < 1311227612 294809 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1311227615 891641 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1311227637 111814 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all of them are above a threshold of taking action < 1311227687 847687 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there's *much* better ways of getting sulfur, making the whole proposition sickening and pointless. < 1311227744 946645 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, TBH, most of those really hazardous things that people in undeveloped nations end up doing are either pointless or much better done via machines. < 1311227768 526646 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we waiting for? < 1311227783 694397 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets go put that sugar refinery out of business! < 1311227798 336904 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's this nasty problem with economic inequities... < 1311227803 623499 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :those poor guys need to be unemployed < 1311227856 801889 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's very, very nontrivial to bootstrap an economy. < 1311227946 230979 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs to bootstrap an economy? we just bring in our own people and equipment, pay fair tax on export and use of the land... < 1311227972 931592 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually theyll take over the operation themselves cuz thats just how things go < 1311227984 632330 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for now, it cant hurt them really < 1311228087 254770 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, knowing humanity's propensity for dickishness, we'll just settle in and create an oppressed underclass that eventually rises up and then has no idea how to run shit, causing things to go to shit. < 1311228197 65318 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? create? theres already one! otherwise there wouldnt be people carrying sulfur out of a volcano for $13/day < 1311228246 861008 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the *underclass* in that society. < 1311228253 515676 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may now be frightened. < 1311228319 604969 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you agree we wouldnt really be hurting them to build some infrastructure there? < 1311228343 510613 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. No. My only issue is that there's a decent chance the people involved in doing so will be royal dicks. < 1311228399 523995 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was saying we should be those people < 1311228406 802531 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure i'm not a dick :) < 1311228413 883722 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, we personally? No argument. :P < 1311228437 486295 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm afraid that at the moment, they're paid higher wages than I. < 1311228443 58853 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311228461 418109 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fuck you, Bush.) < 1311228531 698959 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not long ago i heard a few fuck reagans < 1311228541 412347 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you get dead yesterday? < 1311228541 637005 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fuck Reagan. < 1311228543 787838 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He started it. < 1311228548 796068 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems we shall have a good oldfashioned consie president orgy soon < 1311228585 735797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why didn't you write that book tomorrow? < 1311228668 434846 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are you talking to zzo38? < 1311228727 300641 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, in case you are on this channel. < 1311228786 481112 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1311228787 923457 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311228839 83306 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ask again last week and maybe I'll havd an answer for you by the day i am laid to rest < 1311228882 173858 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I will try. But maybe I can't. < 1311228915 535936 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311228949 527947 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if i never try to find out how your attempt went, then you can both succeed and fail < 1311229026 770151 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311229446 140927 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read book once, it says Jesus is laughing and none of the things they described in the Bible actually existed, they are mythology meant to make up ideas and philosophy and parables and those things, and it makes Gnostic Christianity still valid. < 1311229557 14087 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In the past, it was, and still is in the present, my opinion, that the proper meaning of religion, it doesn't matter whether or not the events described in the Bible actually happened or not.) < 1311229709 856042 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they exist any of the mana symbols and other symbols for Magic: the Gathering, and energy card symbols for Pokemon card, and Fanucci suit symbols, and so on, in METAFONT? < 1311229737 729188 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RE: MTG symbols. No, but there should be. < 1311229810 628228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I think it would be good idea. Would you know who knows how to do it with a good job? < 1311230261 860438 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is at least one (probably several) TTF of (some) MTG symbols, it might be possible to do some manual convertatation, or at least use it as a starting point. (Though I have no clue how good it is; I just saw one somewhere.) < 1311230350 990754 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about how one would do those multicolored hybrid symbols in METAFONT; isn't it quite strictly monochromatic? < 1311230438 266505 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is monochromatic (although you can use specials if needed). It doesn't need colored; you can do it in monochrome so that it works on monochrome printers. The background circle is the colored part and it would be a separate circle symbol, inserted whenever needed for color symbols on color printers. < 1311230504 935041 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are those two-color ones, like http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/4/4b/Manaur.gif -- though I guess you could have the two halves as separate symbols. < 1311230548 339155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can have the two halves as separate symbols. < 1311230572 681847 :CakeProphet!~adam@h173.27.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311230573 121050 :CakeProphet!~adam@h173.27.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311230573 328540 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311230584 788566 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could use ImageMagick colors, PostScript colors, PDF colors, or what I prefer is CMYKX color specials (where X is like K but used for monochrome printers, while CMYK is for color printers)) < 1311230670 589201 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think separate symbols would work. Each half of circle is one symbol which is colored when printing. And the mana symbols can just be the smaller ones than normal and then put in place. < 1311230872 568511 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311230885 23846 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=141 I do believe that the text beneath is the best bit about this one. < 1311230904 242546 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a-archive-binging sqrt(-$garfield)
< 1311230936 454619 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning! < 1311230966 144831 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other way is to convert the images used in MSE directly to GF format for the specified resolutions. < 1311230979 574309 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt 3.14159 < 1311230981 85683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.7724531023414978 < 1311231059 621057 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt -3.14159 < 1311231061 80035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1311231061 287490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1311231121 229562 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :orosu < 1311231134 342099 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt (-pi) < 1311231135 650888 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1311231139 28956 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1311231143 894957 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you have the floating-point version. < 1311231148 670354 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1311231169 444043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > sqrt -3.14159 < 1311231170 967005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :need parens < 1311231173 446576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :around the negative number < 1311231179 481326 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nods < 1311231200 207562 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it's (-) sqrt 3.14159, which is of course a type error. < 1311231217 18225 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1311231225 521850 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311231231 823101 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't have a negative function < 1311231250 582098 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unary minus is a bit of a hack in Haskell. < 1311231272 688550 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TBH, it's a bit of a hack in pretty much every language with both it and binary minus, but that's beside the point) < 1311231275 536124 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. mathematical theory probably hasn't explored the implication of a negative function < 1311231305 770629 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since a function isn't really a number im just being dumb < 1311231316 157671 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose you could do a variant of Church numerals, thereby getting you functions as numbers. < 1311231318 869316 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311231328 842916 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, without "variant of". < 1311231346 180184 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only need to do extra legwork if you want it to do negatives or something. < 1311231392 776130 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1311231397 319959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mind me < 1311231476 208581 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt $ (-pi) :+ 0 < 1311231477 467261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0 :+ 1.7724538509055159 < 1311231482 698517 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i find my own words to be a thicket, because i have seen how calculated peoples words can be after they start reading about manipulative psychology < 1311231507 819512 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How was it with lambdabot, how does it have all the modules (all of them) available by default? < 1311231509 15604 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost every sentence can be evil if the intent behind it is evil < 1311231526 810903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does :+ do? Is it for specifying complex numbers? < 1311231535 705259 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the complex number constructor, yes. < 1311231551 980727 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: That is difficult to know if it is correct or whatever it is < 1311231586 669090 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean sqrt (-pi) ? < 1311231601 214178 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the intent behind a sentence make it evil? I don't know. < 1311231612 66112 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean followers of general semantics < 1311231624 448793 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all such nonsense < 1311231652 671534 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311231653 22092 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the philosophical ideas of evil and such. < 1311231703 906601 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has come to my attention that rather than using words to express feelings, people these days are interested in using communication as a weapon < 1311231741 720801 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :being entirely two faced thinking noone knows what they are doing < 1311231762 446986 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating-point vs math™: floating-point wins again: < 1311231763 138183 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-pi) :+ 0 == mkPolar pi pi < 1311231764 458478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1311231765 543821 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mean here i just mean in general < 1311231767 551326 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> magnitude $ ((-pi) :+ 0) - (mkPolar pi pi) < 1311231768 969026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence `magnitude' < 1311231769 176176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `Data.Complex.ma... < 1311231801 582864 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, do I need to full-qualify that? < 1311231805 272438 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Data.Complex.magnitude $ ((-pi) :+ 0) - (mkPolar pi pi) < 1311231806 445929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.8473413874435795e-16 < 1311231872 656091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wonder what the other sort of magnitude is.) < 1311231899 642458 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mkPolar pi pi < 1311231900 946489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-3.141592653589793) :+ 3.8473413874435795e-16 < 1311231908 769047 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost, but not quite. < 1311231922 18760 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effing floating point. < 1311231924 208379 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :marketing, salespeople, advertising, pickup artists, brainwashing, cults, suggestion, covert hypnosis, n.l.p., body language, double-entendres, general semantics, operant conditioning.. all this crap and whatever else comes from it < 1311231947 220586 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is possible not everyone knows exactly what they are thinking, because even your thoughts are all hallucination, too. You can say things for many purposes. One reason, is to ask question, answers, tell something, notify something, etc. < 1311231948 299948 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *now* I realise what "mkPolar" is doing. < 1311231972 549352 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems so obvious. < 1311231995 229216 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just constructing a complex number from a polar coordinate pair. < 1311231997 4923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or for word games. < 1311232009 295610 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, just first time I'd seen that function) < 1311232016 434638 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi * (cis pi) < 1311232017 795112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-3.141592653589793) :+ 3.8473413874435795e-16 < 1311232035 292456 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that would be the obvious implementation. < 1311232057 450495 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: well anyway, the people involved sell themselves out < 1311232060 777463 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effing floating point. :P < 1311232111 735798 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes it is true, they say things for lying and marketing and so on, too. < 1311232128 240413 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly, 'cis' and 'mkPolar' seem to be independently implemented: "mkPolar r theta = r * cos theta :+ r * sin theta" and "cis theta = cos theta :+ sin theta", from the sources. < 1311232160 87123 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How strange. I wonder what difference exists. < 1311232196 467635 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Actually, might be laziness. < 1311232227 311546 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think that'd be *notable*, though. < 1311232286 32491 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be laziness. On an "intermediate results in higher precision" machine and an old-fashioned language, you might also get better results from doing "r * cos theta" and "r * sin theta" separately, before stuffing them into a "struct complex" or whatnot which would potentially involve truncamation. < 1311232310 953576 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the good old x87's 80-bit floats, a regular source of surprising inequalities. < 1311232334 442213 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floats already produce some surprising inequalities, though. < 1311232369 786672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for measuring angles in a computer, neither radians nor degrees is best. Instead maybe you can have something such as 0xC000 for one full turn (using unsigned 16-bit numbers). < 1311232399 460331 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311232431 152015 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It really depends on why you're measuring angles. < 1311232518 564610 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Degrees" where 256 == full turn are quite often used too, since when you put those into a byte-sized variable, the wrap-around is in many cases quite "natural", plus 256 elements is still borderline reasonable for a trig table. < 1311232540 224164 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311232541 251774 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311232601 218642 :Scientits!~username@netblock-72-25-91-35.dslextreme.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311232720 757166 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the grads (gradians) which have the value of 400 as 2*pi (sorry, tau). I think I had a calculator which could be set to grads, for some inexplicable reason. < 1311232804 126534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311232812 880252 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaah*, calculators. < 1311232824 408981 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any good reason for them? < 1311232848 101553 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can play (multiplayer, with the link cable) Tetris with them in class? < 1311232857 796967 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that with a Gameboy. < 1311232863 289017 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your point? < 1311232866 701851 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that might be more conspicuous. < 1311232913 550664 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's a demo called Anal Party IV for the TI-86, which does sound (well... some) by twiddling the link port registers. < 1311232930 4932 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any field where humans still actually calculate immediate expressions by hand? < 1311232948 404824 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Education. < 1311232958 652184 :Scientits!~username@netblock-72-25-91-35.dslextreme.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are immediate expressions? < 1311232959 901505 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not an especially impressive demo; the graphics hardware in TI-86 only has a simple bitmapped screen, so you can't do anything really clever with it.) < 1311232960 703784 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. by immediate expressions i mean.. as in .. resolving an equation to a value < 1311232976 963906 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :scientits: im a newbie, a duimbass and i don't know math. forgive my use of these words < 1311232983 499062 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1311232992 30347 :Scientits!~username@netblock-72-25-91-35.dslextreme.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my name that intimidating? I don't know much maths < 1311233012 979718 :Scientits!~username@netblock-72-25-91-35.dslextreme.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say shopping, in response to your question < 1311233016 30921 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you call it maths.. you must not be from the us < 1311233021 174497 :Scientits!~username@netblock-72-25-91-35.dslextreme.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's apparently what we're best at as a society < 1311233028 596501 :Scientits!~username@netblock-72-25-91-35.dslextreme.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am from the internets < 1311233033 943265 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sory < 1311233038 999177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientits: btw this channel is about programming < 1311233055 810987 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dun really wanan know < 1311233125 440714 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i live its also called maths though < 1311233354 483842 :Scientits!~username@netblock-72-25-91-35.dslextreme.com PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1311233404 278909 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek what did i do < 1311233507 114529 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what i meant was.. inserting numbers into equations and working out the answers without the aid of a calculator < 1311233520 811537 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or..even.. doing it with a calculator < 1311233578 463978 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's only done in education. < 1311233589 755384 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which *suggests* that it does not belong there. < 1311233647 461530 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bizzare < 1311233738 601149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it was me < 1311233746 701491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone thinks this is an esoterica channel. < 1311233800 194854 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1311234224 311510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311234321 934716 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@die 1d6 < 1311234322 865768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d6 => 3 < 1311234788 549784 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a certain tradeoff is occuring to me. in general normal people are not entertained by their own work. < 1311234834 161435 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, a poet probably doesn't contemplate on their own poems. a writer on their own novels, a director on their own films, a musician on their own music, etc < 1311234845 488190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nahhhh < 1311234848 98502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just false humbleness < 1311234882 526071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean sure there may be some people who don't think their work sucks but has absolutely no interest in it < 1311234887 58251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I very much doubt they're in the majority < 1311234903 827160 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1311234929 680297 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in general it is easier to be entertained I think by something someone else made < 1311234933 244008 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, most programmers hate everyone *elses* code, and only likes their own. < 1311234949 990396 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well programming is something difficult to place in this sense < 1311234951 260626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [asterisk]like < 1311234964 709830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that's certainly true < 1311234980 995646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may be just because the act of creating a work involves so much attention to it that it's like playing a song nine hundred times < 1311235025 657785 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :This always brings to mind field of dreams for me < 1311235043 24695 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :about building something for someone else < 1311235113 812978 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to be my own audience because i can tailor something to my exact needs and i can give myself the most direct feedback < 1311235121 49932 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but however... perhaps it is like incest < 1311235128 441939 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. just wrong < 1311236307 733083 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres this feeling i get when looking at code of a kind of boredom or ennui knowing it isn't going to do anything exciting, or knowing it doesn't mean anything < 1311236340 310711 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure if its the "you should turn on your intellect now" feeling < 1311236359 751623 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i am just too inexperienced to "get it" < 1311236390 252356 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite late in life afterall that I started to give a damn about politics or legal or economic matters in newspapers < 1311236393 761787 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311236414 557632 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i just need to let it come < 1311236589 917678 :Sgeo|DiesAtBadTi!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1311238106 993022 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wellnowwhat.net/transfers/testWaveform.wav < 1311238144 287782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds waveformy < 1311238170 717193 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1311238204 995814 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're working on making it better tho < 1311238221 384787 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think part of the problem is the time resolution, giving it a sort of modem-y sound < 1311238249 465375 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311238259 933611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it meant to be < 1311238261 756992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a e i o u? < 1311238282 849735 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a i o" < 1311238295 600979 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a e i o u" isnt a bad guess < 1311238313 275932 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the phonetics of "e" < 1311238333 889098 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the apparent strength of the final [u] in the "o" < 1311239089 379245 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311239108 108828 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311240972 618003 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311240975 928542 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311242612 34777 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311242636 383352 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311244284 773634 :Ycros!~ycros@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe96:868c PART :#esoteric < 1311244917 477231 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311245318 216333 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" a certain tradeoff is occuring to me. in general normal people are not entertained by their own work." <<< i love pretty much all of my own work < 1311245340 24526 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also think all of it sucks ass < 1311245498 637898 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" but that may be just because the act of creating a work involves so much attention to it that it's like playing a song nine hundred times" <<< i think the majority of people enjoy hearing the same thing over and over (although with other stuff in between repetitions) < 1311245660 737354 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311245943 121554 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least if that thing is pure greatness < 1311246123 568222 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311246743 921012 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my BF Joust evolutiony thing is approaching being ran < 1311246964 82759 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict it will enslave humanity in approximately 7 hours. < 1311246967 657445 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what always happens. < 1311247016 489141 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've taken precautions < 1311247022 817794 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's written in Python < 1311247024 419006 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also what they always say. < 1311247046 399018 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine was written in Perl, and it still enslaved a couple of humanities. < 1311247398 634537 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the evolution process is controlled by me < 1311247585 516284 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ychat just announces the now.. but < 1311247599 154434 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going somewhere with it < 1311247641 173571 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel there is a disconnect with programming languages and the desired result < 1311247662 204650 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah its called the art of programming dumbass) < 1311247823 976155 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh.. I suspect that things can be better < 1311247960 902413 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] < 1311247965 309043 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311248086 33821 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311248162 559345 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311248188 344109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote The Russian's emblem was the hammer and sickle, not the fist and other fist < 1311248192 20149 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :521) The Russian's emblem was the hammer and sickle, not the fist and other fist < 1311248200 405775 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1311248836 969419 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311249011 70880 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now my BF Joust interpreter might be working < 1311249639 569848 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm running it 256 times < 1311249653 946142 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it had an error < 1311249678 908765 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This'd be much easier if Python had until loops < 1311249694 492869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Have you tried "while not"... < 1311249852 77099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Deewiant: So you... reverse the byte order manually, but then call ntohl too? fizzie: The host might be big-endian! < 1311249853 489769 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :522) Deewiant: So you... reverse the byte order manually, but then call ntohl too? fizzie: The host might be big-endian! < 1311249871 332695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Technically that quote is missing a space, since you apparently still put spaces after line-terminating question marks. < 1311250207 543827 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can't seem to shake that hobbit. < 1311250738 821145 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311250755 638199 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had to explain to my parents in an argument that you don't actually feel anything with your heart. < 1311250759 8102 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they disagreed. < 1311250807 682109 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote God, I sure do hate Apple and their header files that only include the functions they're specified to. < 1311250809 76779 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :523) God, I sure do hate Apple and their header files that only include the functions they're specified to. < 1311250964 430855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like they don't _want_ to be at fault here! < 1311251069 958279 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: then they're idiots < 1311251099 147797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel with my left foot, personally < 1311251100 176299 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Python just crashed < 1311251145 982476 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are nerves in the heart right? < 1311251150 720040 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not an exception? it segfaulted? < 1311251162 76865 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, but that's not what they feel /with/ < 1311251163 152837 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just dissappeared < 1311251171 383564 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Windows temporarily < 1311251179 983529 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, it is sort of, but... fuck, you know what I mean. < 1311251184 496951 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can feel something with my hand < 1311251189 624806 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure this is all your parents meant < 1311251202 573232 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can also touch stuff with your heart and feel it < 1311251204 275168 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I think you give them too much credit. < 1311251239 53319 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a friend who was absolutely certain that the capital of the US is in British Columbia < 1311251240 962787 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started to explain that you feel emotions in your brain, and they said if they felt things with their head then they could turn them off. < 1311251258 715000 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously they're just completely ignorant of everything. < 1311251269 7417 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they were just fucking with you < 1311251312 168028 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then this is quite a prank they're pulling. It's a joke they've been pulling my entire life. < 1311251330 2517 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being that dumb, that is. < 1311251371 752430 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be outdone by idiots like your parents! < 1311251399 875073 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have children, then pretend to be an idiot until they are 21! < 1311251434 393585 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to make my children think i'm dead, and show up as a ghost every now and then < 1311251444 108022 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if they felt things with their head then they could turn them off" -- what? < 1311251455 448135 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :give them like a bit of lsd so they don't know if it was real or not < 1311251466 413330 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often turn things off with my head < 1311251473 889565 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, light switchs < 1311251475 376413 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's called telekinesis < 1311251478 995452 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's perfectly normal < 1311251489 498373 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I kid you not. < 1311251497 891871 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telekinesis? I just call it hitting my head off things < 1311251507 631859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently everything in your head is under conscious control. < 1311251536 210018 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake: which includes so called unconcious concious? < 1311251570 268690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : that you can also touch stuff with your heart and feel it < 1311251574 194481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think your heart has nerves < 1311251585 343767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can't be outdone by idiots like your parents! < 1311251585 586013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm going to have children, then pretend to be an idiot until they are 21! < 1311251590 367586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do one better! Pretend to be an idiot until YOU DIE. < 1311251592 196756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is where it became intolerable. "feeling with your heart" was kind of reasonable, because emotions are experience as bodily sensations to an extent, but.. they didn't think that emotions were a result of their "head" < 1311251595 447156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And leave NO TRACE of you ever not being an idiot. < 1311251598 727043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be the ULTIMATE prank. < 1311251601 128861 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well prolly not enough that you could actually feel stuff touching it, but i mean if you say bang it with a hammer < 1311251619 965695 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely has nerves < 1311251630 387839 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Do one better! Pretend to be an idiot until YOU DIE." <<< nah just wait until your kids die < 1311251638 775486 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have touch receptors? < 1311251664 947941 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my heart feels meaty. < 1311251669 759026 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why would it < 1311251688 120219 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, the liver has light receptors < 1311251713 590837 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't heard that one, why the fuck? < 1311251715 955283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to recognize when you've been disemboweled in the daytime? I could see that as being useful information. < 1311251721 709392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's because... ummm... err.... < 1311251725 815059 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Do one better! Pretend to be an idiot until YOU DIE. < 1311251727 166009 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :524) Do one better! Pretend to be an idiot until YOU DIE. < 1311251727 364556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err.............. < 1311251736 9619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: My, aren't I quotable today. < 1311251746 289650 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1311251751 98312 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The liver light receptors were a co-incedence that slowly led to the developement of eyes < 1311251810 897226 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :god was like lol evolution ur being so dum < 1311251899 303030 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unintelligent design. < 1311251941 345189 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think with my liver < 1311252122 119649 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i more or less accept that we exist as a kind of mysterious tradeoff < 1311252140 363810 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1311252163 967694 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even that.. i just don't know < 1311252168 232607 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i have no idea what that means, but i assume that's your point < 1311252181 8711 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. self and other < 1311252188 624545 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no real divide between self and other < 1311252193 821622 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mind just approximates it < 1311252218 123595 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just guessing < 1311252265 678589 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep black and white, real and unreal, yin and yang, lemme get my crystal ball < 1311252283 962240 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should sleap < 1311252289 647167 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, is my left hand part of me? < 1311252292 760623 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my sock? < 1311252300 264141 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this sofa I'm sitting on? < 1311252304 75279 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my brain? < 1311252315 33696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: having spent far too much time thinking about these things... i have only led myself into depressions < 1311252329 284219 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :left hand yes, sock only if you just jizzed on it, sofa no except if you just jizzed on it < 1311252340 358260 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in < 1311252349 571602 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it helps to remember that not knowing is not knowing < 1311252350 584249 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :brain yes < 1311252394 523552 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: a depressed view of existence isn't necessarily a more accurate one < 1311252451 998327 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you jizz on everything? Does everything become one? < 1311252467 931081 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you even READ the bible? < 1311252478 79726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you have to jizz on your jizz < 1311252539 891260 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... God has jizzed on everything? < 1311252552 800326 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you even READ the bible? < 1311252577 64896 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried to once. < 1311252582 590638 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't get into it. < 1311252583 157889 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1311252588 86636 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1311252588 813921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote So... God has jizzed on everything? have you even READ the bible? < 1311252590 83127 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :525) So... God has jizzed on everything? have you even READ the bible? < 1311252680 53138 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shall now sleep until the sun goes down < 1311252741 906328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so rude to sun < 1311252898 633198 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree, that's why i always go to sleep when the sun starts sunning rudely < 1311252984 407564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's four pm there dude < 1311253042 452855 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i usually sleep all day < 1311253049 906752 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a problem with that? < 1311253060 232259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope it's just that the sun has been sunning rudely for quite a while < 1311253065 192535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try doing it a bit earlier so that you miss all of it < 1311253070 611231 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how would i know < 1311253075 356356 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't actually see it < 1311253135 27566 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hire someone to see it for you? < 1311253161 391962 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my BF Joust interpreter works < 1311253286 662921 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I've broken it < 1311253720 714765 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed it < 1311253748 482456 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nälkä, eikä oo ruokaa. < 1311253944 200613 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Myös. < 1311253979 600693 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Olen käsine! Ei, olen kaksi käsineet! < 1311254280 271199 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jsem rukavice! Ne, já jsem dva rukavice! < 1311254301 1874 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ben bir eldiven! Hayır, iki eldiven! < 1311254317 419898 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ich bin ein Handschuh! Nein, ich bin zwei Handschuhe! < 1311254328 585396 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is German so long? < 1311254333 912599 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's inefficient < 1311254348 428594 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to express my identity as a glove < 1311254360 108353 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311254365 237620 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then correct myself as my glove identity has duplicated < 1311254423 293936 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, in "Ich bin ein", everything but "bin" is redundant, and "Handschuh" is longer than it has to be. < 1311254460 632166 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be, like, "Bin Glof! Nein, bin zwei Glofe!" < 1311254485 807298 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make a petition to reform the German language < 1311254505 177735 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, we should all just speak Spanish instead. I like that one. < 1311254521 49205 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soy un guante! No, yo soy dos guantes! < 1311254533 16243 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :¡Soy guante! < 1311254538 679408 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not as short as Turkish... < 1311254547 812585 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you say if being a glove is your job. < 1311254561 134076 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :¡No, soy dos guantes! < 1311254641 610298 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, python.org is down < 1311254668 679007 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Is there a short way to find the sum of all the numbers in a list in python? < 1311254677 649534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311254685 615536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311254754 530456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes, sum < 1311254762 954409 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that's handy < 1311254764 326292 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :builtin function I believe. < 1311254769 946460 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even handier < 1311254789 3853 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the words of the great Stephen Fry: Wo ist mein Handy? < 1311254804 492591 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, my Python knowledge is a little rusty. < 1311254814 36227 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used it in quite a while. < 1311254819 55966 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is extremely incomplete < 1311254836 522463 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was my first language, so I spent a lot of time mastering it. < 1311254843 134194 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's... difficult to master. < 1311254873 872973 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you familiar with generator comprehensions? < 1311254879 586341 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, whatever they're called... < 1311254895 484686 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not especially < 1311254922 658206 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(expr for var in list). if you use square brackets it's a list comprehension which is strictly evaluated, but using () makes a lazy iterator object < 1311254943 138030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You should use Haskell it's a great thing and also better than Python. < 1311254946 135664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for large iterations, generators are preferable. < 1311254949 798798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions hour with Elliott. < 1311254959 725785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Only true if you're going to iterate over it afterwards < 1311254967 918625 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm better at Python than I am at Haskell < 1311254984 648116 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm awful at Haskell < 1311254992 434612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversed([x for y in z]) shouldn't be much slower than reversed(x for y in z) < 1311254995 961298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the latter is nicer < 1311255010 473516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's called self-improvement. :p < 1311255011 864587 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well... yes. I was talking about iterating, not representing data. < 1311255094 995193 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well reversed can't take an iterator at all. < 1311255101 477076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that sucks < 1311255106 884525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be in itertools somewhere < 1311255111 425546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be very efficient anyways. < 1311255121 905162 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to reversed(list) < 1311255188 499580 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the /length/ of the list is important. Which is why I say that for large iterations, generators are much more space efficient. For small lists/iterations, it's not going to be a noticable difference. < 1311255237 818935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll probably rarely be able to tell at all what with how slow Python is < 1311255253 865498 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah. < 1311255295 118619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just made it a habit to use generators when I do not need to store the values later because they're generally more efficient for that purpose. < 1311255329 462555 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: using xrange instead of range (though I believe in Python 3 range produces an iterator) < 1311255380 575996 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always found worrying about efficiency in languages like Perl and Python to be somewhat ironic. < 1311255449 342795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can worry about algorithmic efficiency, but microoptimising is basically completely pointless < 1311255452 181762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose being concerned about how performance /scales/ is reasonable, but trying to get the fastest runtimes would be silly. < 1311255455 607357 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, what you said. < 1311255476 169913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now in Haskell, you can microoptimise without significantly changing the global structure of your code, if you need it... ;D < 1311255485 158935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can twist literally anything into an argument for why Haskell is the best, try me. < 1311255500 226990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Says the guy who spends most of his Haskell-coding time groaning about its glaring imperfections.) < 1311255548 822079 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python's C interface is pretty good. The "Great Language Shootout" benchmarks have the lowest Python-to-C ratio at 1.02 < 1311255558 155591 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously these programs cheat and write everything in C.. < 1311255596 803314 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it shows that there's not much overhead to this approach when micro-optimizing computationally intense sections of code. < 1311255647 21694 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... C-to-Python ratio, actually. < 1311255658 791535 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, not, since it's runtime. < 1311255733 106018 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main complaint with Python is that it has poor functional programming support in libraries and syntax. < 1311255768 911169 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bäck. < 1311255841 187896 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I suggested improving the functools module on the Python mailing list one time, including things such as id and compose functions. It wasn't taken seriously. < 1311255889 149994 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it has a partial application constructor thing. < 1311255938 726229 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it would be much cleaner to write a function decorator that supported partial application directly in the __call__ method. Because partial(f, a, b, c) is uglier than just f(a,b) < 1311255943 588062 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f(a,b,c) < 1311256010 218793 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@curriable \n def func(a,b,c): ... < 1311256010 652195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1311256060 225703 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ophet(+i)] [4:Freenode/#esoteric(+cn)] [Act: 3,5,6] < 1311256065 21812 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1311256076 609713 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand must have slipped and did something weird. < 1311256104 556035 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ^^^ do this stuff < 1311256116 835682 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a func and pretty easy little module < 1311256122 90442 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol *fun < 1311256153 719039 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What am I tryinh? < 1311256214 59978 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you would create a class called curriable, that took a function as its constructor argument, and defines a __call__ method that returns a partial application when every mandatory argument to the original function is not given. < 1311256260 524385 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to use the inspect module to grab the functions signature information and stuff, so that you can know when to partially apply and when to return the normal result. < 1311256292 983122 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functools, so that you could borrowed the partial class < 1311256299 768408 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*borrow < 1311256312 211591 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..have I lost you? < 1311256319 502420 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly < 1311256357 852963 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay if you import functools, you get a class called partial. Partial is constructed with a function and some arguments to that function. < 1311256400 878203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it then returns a callable object that takes the rest of the functions arguments, and then gives you the result. This is called partial application, where you supply some of the functions arguments at one point in execution, and then supply the rest later. < 1311256427 600507 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1311256452 868336 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that this does not occur automatically, you have to construct the partial object manually: thus, partial(f,a,b) instead of just f(a,b) < 1311256455 847072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWEVER < 1311256482 21666 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could create a class called curriable, that wraps over a function, and implements a __call__ method that does the partial application semantics when not enough arguments are supplied. < 1311256531 468328 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to determine if this is the case, you could use the inspect module. Which has a function (can't remember the name) that returns information about a functions parameters. < 1311256542 507559 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if enough arguments are supplied, it calls the function as normal, otherwise it returns the partial? < 1311256546 574444 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1311256557 417412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311256561 457571 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311256564 994057 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, using Pythons decorate syntax, you could define functions that are automatically curriable < 1311256568 180716 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@curriable < 1311256568 589523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1311256571 785037 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :def func(a,b,c): ... < 1311256573 314698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that. < 1311256575 753307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore lambdabot < 1311256636 425695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@d; def func(): ... === def temp(): ...; func = d(temp) < 1311256636 866596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error at "..." (column 13) < 1311256662 775560 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is linebreak since this is Python and Python is stupid. < 1311256729 239756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the @whatever is just a sugary way to wrap a function inside another object, so that you can implement special call semantics or whatever you want to do really. < 1311256746 16734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a wrapper that logs function calls, for example. < 1311256754 581596 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311256795 256189 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or provides some metadata. or allows you to change the definition of the function at runtime (I think I've actually done this before...) < 1311257060 413375 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you write class methods (aka static methods) in Python by putting @classmethod above the method definition. < 1311257097 781173 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Java I like to call static methods "functions" < 1311257115 791368 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this is basically when they are used. < 1311257198 456381 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311257224 805816 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, actually Python has staticmethod and classmethod. classmethod makes the method take the class as its implicit argument, while staticmethod has no implicit argument at all. < 1311257341 696009 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I am making sense right now... < 1311257352 970759 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy teaching people things. < 1311257356 627398 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of... < 1311257411 864904 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything you're confused about? < 1311257495 524281 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does italian have separate singular and multiple "you"? < 1311257496 500110 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm making something that takes a function and some parameters, and returns a function, which is the same function as before but with the parameters hardcoded? < 1311257505 762460 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :currying < 1311257528 761280 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well, you could, but that's already been done for you if you import functools and then type functools.partial < 1311257559 317756 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if there are enough parameters, the function is called? < 1311257578 585238 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you would be making is a thing (aka class) that takes a function and produces a function that will either partial apply or completely apply based on the number of arguments. < 1311257611 865253 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it wouldn't be producing a function directly, because you can define function-like objects by implementing the __call__ method. < 1311257622 998181 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is called whenever your object is called as though it were a function. < 1311257632 962093 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I had a kinda boring function called total that took two arguments and returned their sum < 1311257651 242428 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever(total,3) would return a function that added three to things < 1311257655 612114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311257661 1299 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (+3) [1..] < 1311257662 113286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30... < 1311257662 311585 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever(total,3,7) would return 10? < 1311257670 907180 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no it's more like < 1311257680 557728 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever(total)(3) would return the function that adds three to things < 1311257680 975398 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function that returns ten? < 1311257691 870864 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever(total)(3,7) would return 10 < 1311257713 892331 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you just use @whatever above the def for total < 1311257721 200316 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it a curriable function. < 1311257770 477225 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever(total) just augments total so that it automatically partially applies when (get ready for it) applicable. < 1311257816 573867 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could do this by either returning a function, or by being a class that implements a __call__ method < 1311257858 709372 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311257890 740368 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the semantics Haskell does by default. (3+) is a function that adds three to things. < 1311257905 649730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Python can do this as well if you define a function wrapper for it. < 1311258010 262920 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-143.vpn.utu.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311258054 8109 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could have: import operator, itertools; add = whatever(operator.add); map(add(3), itertools.count(0)) < 1311258074 475754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is roughly equivalent to the Haskell code map (+3) [0..] < 1311258093 833942 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's wordier because you have to import some boilerplate to get the desired semantics. < 1311258221 137766 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311258290 404411 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, built-in functions don't count as functions < 1311258297 29680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1311258308 690364 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: is not a Python function < 1311258316 91002 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the offending code. < 1311258327 388403 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspect.getfullargspec(len) < 1311258332 474459 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes. < 1311258347 43820 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspect can't get the argument information from a built-in function. < 1311258432 161607 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311258560 569361 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case you can have a special-case for built-in functions where you catch a TypeError, test if it was a built-in, and then see if the exception message matches func_name + "() takes exactly .*? arguments? (\d+ given)" < 1311258568 53365 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something equally hackish < 1311258738 145896 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311259013 445226 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311259046 441011 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: but in the meantime you could just ignore built-ins < 1311259404 259104 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311259480 729069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also when returning the partial object you may want to wrap that object within your class as well. < 1311259492 697862 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the partially applied function can be partially applied further. < 1311259512 451086 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus whatever(total)(2)(4) < 1311259538 301945 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bad example. whatever(three_argument_function)(a)(b)(c) < 1311259618 617547 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's... weirdly recursive? < 1311259627 836114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not recursive at all. < 1311259636 386783 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just returns instances of the same class when called. < 1311259664 346041 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the functionally is contagious, so to speak. < 1311259693 854295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> b -> c < 1311259694 641571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude curry :: ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c < 1311259694 839503 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Tuple curry :: ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c < 1311259694 839748 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude flip :: (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c < 1311259696 145303 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> b -> c -> d < 1311259696 923793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Regex.Base.RegexLike makeRegexOpts :: RegexMaker regex compOpt execOpt source => compOpt -> execOpt -> source -> regex < 1311259697 121692 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BufferType buf_append :: BufferOp a -> a -> a -> a < 1311259697 121868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BufferType buf_snoc :: BufferOp a -> a -> Word8 -> a < 1311259735 651242 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let if' a b c = if a then b else c in (if') (True) (2) (3) < 1311259736 588490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1311259745 270897 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311259774 826592 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let if' a b c = if a then b else c < 1311259776 78493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1311259796 861849 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (((if' False) 3) 4) < 1311259798 588929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1311259819 342595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :demonstrating how partial application works in Haskell, called currying in Haskell. You can curry the curried function. < 1311259853 224412 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311260011 341542 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311260026 289068 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :currying is useful because it allows you to construct more specific functions from general functions. < 1311260111 484606 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311260147 613382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example const in Haskell lets you create functions that always return a constant value. < 1311260153 27116 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (const 3) [1,2,3,4] < 1311260155 91419 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (const 3) [1,2,3,4] < 1311260156 33947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,3,3,3] < 1311260204 1434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Python const would look like: @curriable; def const(a,b): return a < 1311260361 36803 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :def makeconst(a): return lambda b: a < 1311260372 634842 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311260390 927196 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats lame. < 1311260414 607087 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it actually needs to be < 1311260485 318040 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :def makeconst(a, b=NotImplemented): return ((lambda b: a) if b is NotImplemented else a) < 1311260570 56277 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used NotImplemented instead of None because there might be situations where you want to use None for b < 1311260581 493195 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NotImplemented is pretty unused. < 1311260668 721571 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, NotImplementedType is a pretty fancy type. < 1311260676 637595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got a __repr__ method and nothing else. < 1311260682 934137 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NotImplemented exists to be shown. < 1311260719 180637 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311260726 843543 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoneType only defined __repr__ and __hash__. hmmm, interesting, so NotImplemented cannot be used in a dictionary. < 1311260784 920501 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, yes it can, I think it just inherits __hash__ from object. < 1311260847 605186 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python's object hierarchy propagates a wealthy family history of opioid use. < 1311260975 237424 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311260987 129071 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311261039 140841 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311261245 209842 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311261459 167584 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311261510 748049 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311263678 288225 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Vorpal: Won't be slower than Python ;-) elliott_, yeah but that is like saying a T-Ford going down a hill won't be slower than a bicycle uphill on a bumpy road :P < 1311263679 655438 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :526) Vorpal: Won't be slower than Python ;-) elliott_, yeah but that is like saying a T-Ford going down a hill won't be slower than a bicycle uphill on a bumpy road :P < 1311263815 526983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for reference, he was talking about a program written in C...) < 1311265058 729679 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :import teleporter < 1311266103 866152 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311266269 173271 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311266309 203885 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311266955 254846 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-169-204.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311266960 821284 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-90.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311267360 858721 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-190.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311267986 694751 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello people! < 1311268024 12621 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311268041 957259 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you don't count, I was just talking to you < 1311268641 632691 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh God I am crazy < 1311268654 783921 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to implement Numberwang in C++ < 1311268666 156428 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't even touched C++ in years < 1311268669 917919 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5 < 1311268827 300997 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I won't bother < 1311269246 605281 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good work ethic < 1311269297 419726 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even so far my DVI optimization program does a better job than TeX although I am still improving it. You can also suggest other things with it, including optimizations I may have missed, and so on. < 1311269316 935851 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do it in JavaScript instead < 1311269323 457093 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know JavaScript < 1311269938 425377 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311270437 15099 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311270701 330073 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311271261 967617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311272018 418417 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311272308 652849 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311272361 613574 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-194-90.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311272706 724622 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to convert a string like "4.4" to a number in Javascript? < 1311272826 103690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :parseInt(n,10) < 1311272912 662577 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That loses the .4 < 1311272936 103357 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :parseFloat works, though! < 1311273127 566350 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's a bit weird/ < 1311273143 511304 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Chrome, at least, NaN is not equal to itself... < 1311273165 20667 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is not equal to itself < 1311273235 987508 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's by definition. < 1311273288 542506 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the definition recommend a way to test for NaN-ness? < 1311273323 331350 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably something like an isNaN function < 1311273324 788298 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isNan(x)? < 1311273331 425529 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's isNaN. < 1311273336 859518 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The lowercase 'n' was a typo.) < 1311273344 336167 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1311273453 560125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : parseFloat works, though! < 1311273454 562640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1311273456 881174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure to include the ten. < 1311273461 874403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 0 at the start = different parsing. < 1311273474 178438 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? How interesting < 1311273481 373169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because it thinks it's octal < 1311273484 355371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x makes it hex, etc. < 1311273486 451238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too smart for its own good < 1311273523 244501 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if parseFloat does that < 1311273541 380737 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :parseFloat("019") returns 10 < 1311273543 64611 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*19 < 1311273546 397497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, fair enough < 1311273548 792894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still wouldn't trust it :P < 1311273557 478776 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parseFloat("0x19") returns 0 < 1311274034 798633 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had an idea for an Esolang < 1311274051 812335 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One consisting entirely of error handling < 1311274108 630287 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everything that isn't error handling causes an error < 1311274117 437670 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is then handled < 1311274120 776779 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With vigour < 1311274200 15015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shades of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Reaper < 1311274284 446081 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311274297 590249 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite what I had in mind < 1311274309 271205 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi.. #compilers is rather quiet channel.. so I came to ask this here.. < 1311274362 60798 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it unadvisable somehow to insert spillnodes early and reduce them out later if they appear to become unnecessary? < 1311274384 97690 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're building a spillnode-based esolang? < 1311274422 240566 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What's a spillnode?) < 1311274458 523398 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i forgot to provide context. < 1311274487 749450 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I attempt to output machine code from intermediate language of some sort. < 1311274511 627886 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is.. compile IR into target machine code :) < 1311274602 470654 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I take much as possible away from it.. it becomes mostly a problem of just selecting instructions and mapping target machine registers for variables. < 1311274692 399072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote This staircase is very good for correcting people's opininons about communism < 1311274693 502427 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :527) This staircase is very good for correcting people's opininons about communism < 1311274797 240697 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: spillnode is a node that translates into load or store whenever live variable gets spilled into memory. < 1311275222 508303 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311276294 615960 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311276322 776429 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311276701 114160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311276831 803772 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311276946 594578 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311276947 844711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311277121 479388 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311277209 838789 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : well.. mathematical theory probably hasn't explored the implication of a negative function < 1311277230 511241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it probably has, in several different variants. that's the way it usually goes. < 1311277251 583955 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I discussed one such way not long after. < 1311277252 458502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but first you have to define what kind of negative function you _mean_ by the word < 1311277256 714749 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more "touched on". < 1311277283 890068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1311277296 224687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of the obvious ways of doing a "negative function" is, of course, a Church pair of a Church boolean and a Church numeral) < 1311277301 647641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sqrt-3.14159) 2 < 1311277303 20336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.7273764376269047 < 1311277307 689962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1311277335 179999 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smartass. :P < 1311277358 48392 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (sqrt-3.14159) < 1311277359 22210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Floating a) => a -> a < 1311277393 984572 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... Is the thing I least expected. < 1311277402 648236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly
< 1311277410 762013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is simple really < 1311277417 46744 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do tell. < 1311277431 269581 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sqrt-3.14159) 3.14159 < 1311277432 381494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.369136897658502 < 1311277446 719843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sqrt-3.14159) 4 < 1311277447 718756 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.1415899999999999 < 1311277449 198187 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sqrt-3.14159) x < 1311277450 678196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : sqrt x + negate 3.14159 < 1311277466 898747 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311277469 130656 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp < 1311277489 57480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot has instances Num b => Num (a -> b), Floating b => Floating (a -> b) etc., which simply applies the usual numerical methods to the result < 1311277497 323876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*apply < 1311277505 182028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1311277510 265844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (2*id) 3 < 1311277511 657988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1311277542 351100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fairly common mathematical usage e.g. when considering vector spaces of functions < 1311277582 820842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sqrt 2 < 1311277584 181399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.4142135623730951 < 1311277587 61364 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (add 1 * add 2) 1 < 1311277588 289016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `add'Not in scope: `add' < 1311277594 64074 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Okay, that'd do it. < 1311277604 698312 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let add = (+) in (add 1 * add 2) 1 < 1311277606 92684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1311277627 171238 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also explain why the type error on "sqrt -3.14159" was a missing Show instance, not a missing Num instance. :) < 1311277634 705545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311277664 39202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, an overlapping instance - there are two conflicting modules defining Show for functions < 1311277673 603583 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> putStr 1 < 1311277675 105976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Base.String) < 1311277675 304566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal `... < 1311277678 839162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1311277681 405029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> putStr "1" < 1311277682 541104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311277694 572279 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Thought you might like to know that Linux 3.0 is going to be released "soon". < 1311277700 373470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :previously the function instance was similar to that < 1311277761 750289 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Cool. < 1311277776 598553 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: A clone of git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git should be 100% usable; unless someone finds a major bug, that's getting released. < 1311277789 22688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: lambdabot in private tells that the instances are from the smallcheck and vector-space packages < 1311277795 536431 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah. < 1311277867 530873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sometimes the inability to selectively import instances in haskell gets rather annoying < 1311277890 733569 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311277940 971372 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-175-60.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311278005 975934 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311278012 664162 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-153-216.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311278036 977511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe they have done some work to ensure lambdabot no longer has overlapping name definitions (e.g. it no longer imports pure from both Control.Arrow and Control.Applicative), but the instances are impossible to get rid of with import statements < 1311278043 963474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t pure < 1311278045 280621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => a -> f a < 1311278059 97950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Arrow.pure < 1311278060 410183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `Control.Arrow.pure' < 1311278063 159112 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1311278066 528411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle pure < 1311278067 396979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative pure :: Applicative f => a -> f a < 1311278089 611326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it is possible they simply removed pure from Arrow altogether < 1311278102 527540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was just a synonym of arr anyhow) < 1311278127 573998 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed pure?!? < 1311278160 788452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it got annoying whenever someone wanted to import both Control.Arrow and Control.Applicative < 1311278178 76894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have two different functions named the same thing < 1311278254 844379 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does pure do < 1311278286 734118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : How was it with lambdabot, how does it have all the modules (all of them) available by default? < 1311278319 190534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe > runs in the environment of a module named L, which contains a heap of import statements < 1311278328 267265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but certainly not _all_... < 1311278406 417663 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311278488 830289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : > magnitude $ ((-pi) :+ 0) - (mkPolar pi pi) < 1311278506 24478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn so apparently they didn't get rid of all ambiguity < 1311278564 297544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that vectorspace package strikes again, redefining magnitude < 1311278575 760524 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: didn't arrow become a subclass of Category, with pure replaced by something from Category? < 1311278596 907764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category has no pure < 1311278638 829129 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, indeed not < 1311278746 22137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is stupid, as i believe it should be easy to get ghc to give error messages if you do that kind of ambiguity < 1311278754 672877 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311278820 317508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell module Main(Control.Monad, liftM) where import qualified Control.Monad; liftM = 3.14; main = print liftM < 1311278838 100210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311278849 639629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell module Main(Control.Monad, liftM) where import qualified Control.Monad(*); liftM = 3.14; main = print liftM < 1311278851 29722 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311278855 799753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1311278863 113695 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k91u6dtwYm8 < 1311278868 102367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell module Main(Control.Monad(*), liftM) where import qualified Control.Monad; liftM = 3.14; main = print liftM < 1311278886 269723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what _is_ the syntax for that... < 1311278914 923100 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-exporting modules? < 1311278923 814901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311278990 413156 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Foo (baz,module Bar) I think < 1311278995 752230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah found it < 1311279006 79852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell module Main(module Control.Monad, liftM) where import qualified Control.Monad; liftM = 3.14; main = print liftM < 1311279006 278995 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if Foo also wants to export a local function baz) < 1311279010 656651 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14 < 1311279013 689125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1311279065 361557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it doesn't perform the check in that case < 1311279076 371486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it has to be compiled, not just loaded < 1311279095 775303 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :exporting two different symbols with the same name is apparently not an error :) < 1311279100 399203 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Main is special though < 1311279124 782229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1311279178 175656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the report is pretty clear that this kind of thing should be a clash < 1311279188 575645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1311279748 724807 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I should do something about your aimake concept. < 1311279769 356572 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to do it, but C builds should not be harder than "build foo.c" < 1311279785 482304 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311279809 107247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t re < 1311279810 392617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `re' < 1311279832 845314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Complex a -> a < 1311279833 785182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Complex imagPart :: RealFloat a => Complex a -> a < 1311279834 60330 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Complex magnitude :: RealFloat a => Complex a -> a < 1311279834 258404 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Complex phase :: RealFloat a => Complex a -> a < 1311279841 143633 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *obvious* method involves adding annotations to the source, but that feels a bit like a copout (not to mention hard to not fuck up). < 1311279846 467904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> realPart (0 :+ undefined) < 1311279847 863834 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311279866 909889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: apparently Complex is strict, so no laziness available < 1311279966 222611 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So mkPolar is defined the way it is for strictness reasons? "mkPolar r theta = r * cis theta" would be less strict than "mkPolar r theta = r * cos theta :+ r * sin theta", presuming a lazy *. < 1311280036 367306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: um no i was implying that since Complex is a strict type, that _shouldn't_ be the case < 1311280042 684031 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah. < 1311280049 765348 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, mkPolar is defined the way it is for no good reason. < 1311280058 932495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. < 1311280091 79936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one reason is for stupid compilers which would otherwise create a temporary value < 1311280164 420648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably parts of the haskell report predates clever compilers by quite a lot < 1311280189 443962 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, Data.Complex isn't in the Report. :) < 1311280197 181744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is. < 1311280201 500554 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry. < 1311280268 703258 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad of an idea is adding notations to C source to make things happen somewhat sanely? < 1311280296 997351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11. < 1311280305 986586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away
< 1311280327 75150 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: 99 < 1311280344 784487 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311280414 594951 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. *Regardless*, it'd probably need to have a full C preprocessor. :/ < 1311280421 430715 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more like 3/4ths of one. < 1311280435 228239 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311280666 661461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, the evolution process is controlled by me < 1311280677 616306 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You. Insight. :P < 1311280696 158951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly someone hasn't read yudkowski, or elliott_'s (?) rants about it < 1311280707 486070 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yudkowsk_y_ < 1311280718 603490 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has not ranted on any AI topic to his knowledge
< 1311280725 664245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yay i got closer than expected! < 1311280726 175237 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe argued, but not monologued < 1311280742 73201 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but i would agree with him, seeing as this is bf joust and the programs are kilobytes at most. :p < 1311280743 48688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok < 1311280747 362037 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just I haven't got around to automating that yet < 1311280758 738852 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Relevant insight. < 1311280804 793682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no i mean, yudkowsky would say that thinking you control the AI would be no match against a _real_ superhuman AI < 1311280898 138175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i was somewhat joking < 1311280934 838365 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1311280959 609889 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to do rather a lot of optimization, maybe a language change. < 1311280979 771283 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes about 5 minutes to evaluate a generation < 1311281002 121848 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably get that down to two fairly easily < 1311281100 353523 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the single biggest problem is that there is no *way* to tell from just C source whether something is intended as a library or a program. < 1311281140 177980 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it has a comment saying "THIS IS A LIBRARY" < 1311281148 707154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : `addquote The Russian's emblem was the hammer and sickle, not the fist and other fist < 1311281156 142479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://theredhunter.com/Fateh%20logo.gif < 1311281165 979855 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Followed closely by how it's utterly impossible in the general case to discover what should be linked into that. < 1311281184 316657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Al Fatah) < 1311281198 372534 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's actually pretty easy if you assume that each header file corresponds to 0 or 1 C files that should be linked. < 1311281258 937646 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*With* that assumption, you can just about do it by grepping for #include statements. < 1311281492 709553 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's some good quotes later on :D < 1311281507 691095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say. < 1311281786 70880 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does my brother have to have a friend with almost exactly the same name as him? < 1311281853 981044 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he just likes people with similar names to his < 1311281903 912076 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that comment was a) rhetorical, b) completely irrelevant, c) fundamentally useless, d) kinda stupid, and e) < 1311281910 597279 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't think of an e < 1311281955 440807 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> e < 1311281956 873992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : e < 1311281963 33134 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot could < 1311281971 484549 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My word < 1311281983 934962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly it's not _the_ e < 1311282000 978867 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :E, nevah < 1311282014 117454 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> exp 1 -- is this the e? < 1311282015 783772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.718281828459045 < 1311282026 293293 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That be the e < 1311282040 287325 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To an appropriate number of decimal places < 1311282056 227290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> exp 1 :: CReal < 1311282057 662199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.7182818284590452353602874713526624977572 < 1311282065 503900 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think it was a bit few to be truly appropriate < 1311282077 738124 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping < 1311282087 119364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :6uod < 1311282142 115987 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a friend who makes a quote list similar to HackEgo's... but NOT ON IRC! < 1311282144 443471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : does italian have separate singular and multiple "you"? < 1311282150 662963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, tu and voi < 1311282162 624872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a polite one, lei < 1311282183 953209 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the same friend who thought Washington DC was in British Columbia, managed to set a pan of water on fire, and whom I tried to teach Lambda Calculus < 1311282199 190355 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"managed to set a pan of water on fire", wow < 1311282212 829379 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's sure how she did it < 1311282220 561838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: are you sure he hasn't escaped from a sitcom somewhere? < 1311282235 201774 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure. < 1311282235 414603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... are you sure you're not living in one < 1311282248 653335 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's female. In sitcoms it's generally the males who are idiots < 1311282254 311809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311282346 265986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i recall at least one exception (from cheers, although there were male idiots too) < 1311282363 269912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and friends had one < 1311282374 142110 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311282376 78968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not entirely up-to-date with modern sitcoms
< 1311282381 996545 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if this were a sitcom, she and I would have more unresolved sexual tension < 1311282396 879858 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you're just in a really badly-written sitcom < 1311282405 250508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a value of not entirely approximately equal to "entirely not" < 1311282409 304363 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THERE'S NO LAUGH TRACKS < 1311282417 228325 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: IT'S AN OLD SITCOM < 1311282430 380807 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I'VE GOT AN iPOD! < 1311282434 825106 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mom used to boil rags to clean them, and once accidentally left one to boil for a few days. nothing happened. < 1311282438 265934 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: IT'S LIKE THE JETSONS < 1311282446 969962 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mein. Gott. < 1311282463 585765 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mon. Dieu. < 1311282473 677207 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311282476 913056 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deus. Meus. < 1311282486 69922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders a civilization which would find ipods hilariously anachronistically futuristic
< 1311282520 894712 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was one of them in Doctor Who, I think < 1311282524 84302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: Zeerust on tvtropes) < 1311282527 349313 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the Eccleston episodes < 1311282539 585413 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm avoiding TVTropes < 1311282546 570788 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because my system is perfect < 1311282551 110972 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1311282558 903645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i was being nice and not giving a link < 1311282563 753512 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hilariously anachronistically futuristic? what's that even mean? < 1311282578 306301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: like the jetsons < 1311282581 245740 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove anachronistically and you'll get it < 1311282628 763766 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so, hmm... like the future looked a long time ago? < 1311282634 408554 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My biology teacher: I'll do the teachering. < 1311282636 942660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: as i said, zeerust < 1311282653 164665 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe not hilariously futuristic, more like futuristic in a hilarious way < 1311282669 548597 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. I at least have a quick, stupid proof-of-concept. < 1311282681 259504 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/KXSb < 1311282727 712698 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being kicked off to go to bed now < 1311282730 405750 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1311282740 246270 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311282752 281557 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a main.c, it attempts to search for all needed source files. < 1311282761 221109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor Taneb, he would fit in so well here if he could just get a messed up sleep schedule < 1311282774 546170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what was your conclusion? < 1311282799 376134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: to what? < 1311282802 164555 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pondering < 1311282816 155026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i think i just pondered pondering. < 1311282825 771968 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1311282831 534665 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to do some stuff -> < 1311282847 897990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : poor Taneb, he would fit in so well here if he could just get a messed up sleep schedule < 1311282848 745673 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also ph < 1311282878 879376 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a pretty nice sleepy time distribution < 1311282890 109010 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-22 < 1311283314 823032 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311283613 436336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also regarding tvtropes, http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/?comic=926 < 1311283632 296520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, there is no picture) < 1311284106 746654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's darths & droids is particularly hilarious, i think < 1311285236 993929 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, my scan script, though naive, works nicely for things that don't try to break it. < 1311286674 581400 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311286704 89528 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311286831 698184 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311286893 979471 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311287202 828536 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311287269 905787 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311287372 145312 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311287384 209089 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I obviously have a good Internet connection < 1311287442 805960 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311287660 126777 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-190.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311287661 254839 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311287745 612169 :CakeProphet!~adam@h85.9.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311287746 29494 :CakeProphet!~adam@h85.9.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311287746 228071 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311287763 82430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like everyone else < 1311287959 736664 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1311288594 609054 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311288696 899369 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-199-209.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311288865 61297 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-131.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311289387 276479 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now I have a simple compiler wrapper. < 1311289396 34863 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311289399 704590 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/AXBj < 1311289426 186107 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect, no; better, yes. < 1311289488 498846 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311289519 332486 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin_ < 1311289583 642713 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311289979 775444 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311290117 946181 :copumpkin_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311291036 341959 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/CQWO Added some annotations to make up for my laziness... < 1311291153 247983 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD, minor bug. Anyways. < 1311292071 790510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: eso.codu.org appears not to be loading < 1311292115 161248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or http://www.codu.org/eso/ork/exa/orkipple.ork < 1311292152 192102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that one is also in the file archive < 1311292168 314042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but still, broken wiki links, i hope it's temporary... < 1311292172 769551 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311292286 135263 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan Uhh, E_WORKSFORME < 1311292304 664277 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1311292376 776857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well _now_ it works < 1311292401 228949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: there are some doubts about Ork's TC-ness, see Talk: page < 1311292443 34271 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh nooooose < 1311292580 707309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the brainfuck interpreter, the problem would be that it's not unbounded in either cell number (explicitly) or cell size (because they're doubles, per the spec) < 1311292603 632378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the kipple interpreter, the problem would be that i cannot make heads or tails of it < 1311292834 228044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm you limit kipple stacks to length 32256 iiuc < 1311292867 708361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's spelled "instantiate" ;D < 1311293010 778734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: can ORK do recursive objects, and so e.g. linked lists? < 1311293023 782930 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't recall :) < 1311293036 474805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311293331 662883 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311294644 426659 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/stylesheet.css huh, they're actually interfering with RES < 1311294774 80715 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, there's a lot of vitriol in that subreddit < 1311294917 93698 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DebateReligion -> "there's a lot of vitriol in that subreddit" -> duh < 1311295678 523359 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a little creepy < 1311295680 725233 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oops < 1311295683 891804 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/** 'Force' users to use the subreddit style **/ < 1311296852 623647 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src reverse < 1311296853 443458 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse = foldl (flip (:)) [] < 1311297454 668882 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, told someone I was playing with Minecraft, he thought I meant minesweeper < 1311297485 33771 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or maybe he was joking < 1311297764 152886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_someone_ probably made minesweeper in minecraft < 1311297773 1097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with real explosions < 1311297866 784543 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-131.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, someone actually did. < 1311299556 817147 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311299581 771127 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311300008 825950 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311300125 882084 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161194.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311300907 380524 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311301264 267026 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311301457 1972 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-148-131.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311304877 983350 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311305897 384432 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311306368 554070 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311307708 576893 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311307716 373651 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1311307727 336854 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 3.0 is out. < 1311307761 957676 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python sum(['aaa','bbb','ccc']) < 1311307762 769068 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1311307781 359298 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any reason why sum doesn't work on any data type that defines '+'? < 1311307971 274952 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the possible condition that it's order is not guaranteed if it's not cumulative, not associative or has side effects? < 1311311334 588071 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311311795 656570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311311825 469122 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played D&D game today. Can you guess the number of each of our experience points (me and my brother) (including both individual and group XP)? < 1311311931 694726 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Do I have any decent chance of guessing correctly? No. < 1311312069 212463 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :69? < 1311312137 269303 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. More than 69. Note we have experience level 20 currently < 1311312162 485403 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that it is not enough to go to level 21 < 1311312258 459856 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 19,0000 experience? < 1311312284 338189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the starting experience for level 20. (Also the comma doesn't belong there) < 1311312288 977309 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. 190,000, and why the hell did I do Japanese/Chinese grouping for that. < 1311312296 841847 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311312301 663393 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the joke. < 1311312314 488553 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the amount gained, not the total amount. < 1311312317 409186 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I wonder if that's actually doable in a single encounter. < 1311312326 686052 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311312376 627571 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't use encounter experience anyways; the DM assigns XP based on other things, including encounters and other stuff < 1311312426 152735 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But not the encounter experience table used in the book; instead XP is assigned based on what is achieved, meaning if an encounter is achieved then that counts too but based on achievements rather than encounter levels) < 1311312438 229215 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you somehow stumbled across a vorpal sword at level one and then killed a deity, you could hit level 20. < 1311312458 163567 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: No. Because we also use the rule no more than 1 level up per session. < 1311312472 321498 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Lame. < 1311312485 648496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And like I said we use achievement-based XP, not encounter-based XP. I prefer these differences in rules actually. < 1311312488 142478 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed lame < 1311312493 811912 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: standard D&D rule is max 1 level per encounter < 1311312499 560743 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you decide to play twice as long one day < 1311312512 390447 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to arbitrarily break into smaller sessions? < 1311312515 320777 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Then a session break is added at one point, when XP is counted < 1311312528 596222 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1311312532 915935 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Lame. < 1311312565 956723 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use max 1 level per session, and I like it this way so do the other players and the DM < 1311312593 276257 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Personally*, I prefer to have the DM arbitrarily do a level bump. < 1311312598 713684 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just me. < 1311312628 708955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, XP is never counted except at the end of a session. You cannot level up during a session, even if there is a magic effect that adds XP to your total, in which case it is done immediately but does not level up until end of session < 1311312631 312504 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I happen to dislike CR and experience costs) < 1311312652 727883 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also happen to dislike CR. < 1311312667 412214 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Experience costs though, I don't dislike as much. < 1311312667 690993 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can kill deities in D&D without being one? < 1311312671 901011 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1311312683 426680 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: D&D deities are just extraordinarily strong beings. < 1311312684 609577 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Depends on the campaign too. < 1311312703 379380 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presuming a "standard" setting; some settings can very well have omnipotent, immortal deities. < 1311312717 21947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes. Depends on the campaign. < 1311312740 415891 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly every roleplaying game has an omnipotent immortal deity < 1311312751 543449 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, in most RPGs everything can be modified by the campaign. < 1311312754 388830 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The DM? < 1311312775 310412 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yeah < 1311312957 997759 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in Forgotten Realms, there is one metadeity (the book says it is a deity but I don't believe them) < 1311313009 760860 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ao? < 1311313067 193967 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean Ao < 1311313134 299217 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you believe me or do you believe the book (or do you believe both)? < 1311313188 801336 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to call Ao the in-setting manifestation of the DM, personally. < 1311313193 761891 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a metadeity. < 1311313378 236767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so you have your own opinion. That is OK, too. < 1311313488 489631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I updated the pre-game copies of the character sheets on my computer since both of our character also speak Thesk language too. < 1311313584 523027 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since both of us are escaped slaves from the Thesk island, him a arena slave and me a magical assistance slave. We are saved by a dwarf who says we need to do them a favor or be dead by magic, but we don't even know what that favor is!) < 1311314058 427316 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311315245 265733 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i discovered visualboy advance emulator already contains an interframe filter.. i thought i was clever thinking of interframe filters for emulators the other day but clearly some movement has been made in that direction already < 1311316357 165904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1311316834 402081 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. In Java you can mess with boxing with reflection. In Scala, a lot of language features use boxing "backstage" < 1311316850 931595 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what kind of tangled messes you can create with that kind of functionality. < 1311317088 130216 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe "functionality" should be in quotes) < 1311317487 88870 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311317733 398356 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311318110 149649 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311319662 712570 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs) < 1311319685 451713 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311319689 189794 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping < 1311319763 397552 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping ping here and a ping ping there and... I'm sure there's a song like that. < 1311319766 368400 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311319780 371861 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undoubtedly < 1311319806 338005 :CakeProphet!~adam@h85.9.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311319806 755427 :CakeProphet!~adam@h85.9.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311319806 953179 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311321053 370299 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311321171 697784 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311322966 70859 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311323935 524251 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311324006 880772 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311324287 293317 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311324441 334837 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311324465 851683 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311326267 968690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311328022 759503 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311328058 381904 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311330598 208833 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311332083 308847 :CakeProphet!~adam@h107.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311332088 577049 :CakeProphet!~adam@h107.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311332088 772770 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311332286 856658 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311332287 55519 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311332384 296935 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> join((+) `ap` (+x)) x) [1..] < 1311332385 626020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b < 1311332403 305704 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> (+) `ap` (+x) x) [1..] < 1311332404 555994 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (a -> a)) < 1311332404 754133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_11' at... < 1311332422 385127 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (+) `ap` (+3) < 1311332423 644680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1311332443 32388 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> (+) `ap` (+x) x x) [1..] < 1311332444 197339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = t -> a -> a < 1311332501 463908 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x -> (+) `ap` (+x) x x) < 1311332502 184497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((+) `ap`) . join (join (+)) < 1311332514 463586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ( < 1311332515 715123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1311332525 910071 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> (+) `ap` (+x) x x) < 1311332527 385858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = t -> a -> a < 1311332527 584536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `x' is applied to too few arguments < 1311332527 584712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(+ x)', namely `x' < 1311332546 474602 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... < 1311332551 142984 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> (+) `ap` (+3) x x) < 1311332552 759735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = t -> a -> a < 1311332552 958133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `x' is applied to too few arguments < 1311332552 958308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the second argument of `(+ 3)', namely `x' < 1311332584 373703 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty ap (+) (+3) < 1311332585 486047 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1311332596 34024 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> (+) `ap` (+3) x) < 1311332597 261464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1311332610 796664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> (+) `ap` (+3) x) [0..] < 1311332612 49707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (a -> a)) < 1311332612 286424 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_130' a... < 1311332616 883782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now that. < 1311332627 205845 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty ap (+) ((+3) 0) < 1311332628 100068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1311332683 788386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> (+) `ap` (+x) x) < 1311332685 328994 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1311332690 243761 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x -> (+) `ap` (+x) x) < 1311332690 779315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((+) `ap`) . join (+) < 1311332803 882111 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x -> (+) `ap` (x+x)) < 1311332804 159731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((+) `ap`) . join (+) < 1311332904 618369 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1311332925 271255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+) `ap` 3 < 1311332926 334354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1311332926 532486 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1311332943 841370 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (+) `ap` 3 < 1311332945 103219 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1311332948 993548 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (+) `ap` 3 4 < 1311332950 485538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1311332974 136827 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um okay. < 1311332974 334991 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know whether there has been serious attempts at implementing a rewriter engine for undirected graphs? < 1311333012 454408 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know of, it doesn't sound impossible at all though. < 1311333034 523988 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weren't there some attempts at Eodermdrome implementation? < 1311333052 838055 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where the design of grrr died off, and that's where eodermdrome is lacking. < 1311333083 909007 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr was supposed to be "graph reduction renderer", to visually explore undirected (but labeled) graph rewriting < 1311333121 829177 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :visualisation would be even more useful for eodermdrome, though. < 1311333167 134885 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :From March of this year: < 1311333168 106538 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am also totally disappointed at the lack of interest in my plans for an Eodermdrome implementations. < 1311333168 304974 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom__Hoover: The language is cursed: people always just talk about implementing it, but never do. (Did oklopol have an eodermdrome thing or how was it?) < 1311333168 305167 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2008-07-17 19:06:16] < oklopol> i implemented eodermdrome < 1311333209 606605 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1311333268 839057 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague feeling that oklopol's implementation was something incredibly slow. < 1311333291 227987 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised < 1311333294 206489 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p565155612.txt < 1311333301 198073 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no, that was just a running example. < 1311333302 33733 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Caleskell has instance Num (a -> a), which can make some things confusing < 1311333353 37218 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because basically, you can just brute-force the search for rewritable subnets < 1311333363 565544 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that _is_ incredibly slow. < 1311333373 519335 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p646231414.txt <-- yeah, okay, so it's not quite an implementation of the language yet. < 1311333416 103086 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be later pastes too. < 1311333429 759603 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that oklopol's not very good at sharing what he does with others. < 1311333509 615138 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do recall wondering whether NAUTY would have been of any use in an Eodermdrome impl. < 1311333539 897963 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might be that it doesn't help in the subgraph isomorphism problem at all. < 1311333594 784838 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1311333596 921782 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are of course other libraries too. < 1311333614 2128 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esolang community has a great record of wasting work :) < 1311333645 998737 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling with the obvious words finds Python bindings for something called "VF" that speaks of subgraphs, isomorphisms, and has functions that start with "match", which is of course a good sign. < 1311333655 333840 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't bothered to read any documentation. < 1311333700 435600 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be almost a comparable effort to find out whether some given program does what I was talking about, as to write the frigging program. < 1311333920 170637 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, seems I _have_ actually documented grrr partially < 1311333926 394862 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll have to add that to the wiki. < 1311334149 740594 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just made a surprisingly good BF Joust program < 1311334179 822708 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all ears. < 1311334180 416139 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311334250 140852 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311334257 54852 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lowgate >>>>>>>>>([[-[++]]]>)*21 < 1311334266 315790 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Taneb_lowgate: 13.4 < 1311334321 469484 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not mad < 1311334332 197228 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite bad, though < 1311334349 253840 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it have double [[]] ? < 1311334372 253445 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it doesn't commit suicide if it wins < 1311334376 277852 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The [++] loop may get locked if there is an odd cell < 1311334394 426319 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would explain why it loses so often < 1311334459 288732 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: There's that GrGen graph rewriting systemajomatic -- http://www.info.uni-karlsruhe.de/software/grgen/index.php -- I suppose it's more commonly used with directed labeled graphs, but the feature list seems to suggest the edges can be undirected too. I don't know the details of the pattern-matching/rewriting language it uses though. < 1311334480 359972 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll translate my python system into JavaScript < 1311334490 383857 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's faster < 1311334502 751153 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, I'll learn C and translate it into that < 1311334505 256473 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I just checked out NAUTY, and it is only partially applicable < 1311334517 944947 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because IIUC it does not search for subgraphs < 1311334537 254110 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then my genetic program will RUE THE DAY < 1311334538 8931 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and brute-forcing subgraphs then checking for graph isomorphism is even worse < 1311334551 234960 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Right. The VF library seems rather more applicable, but the website for that seems to be a bit down. < 1311334581 322001 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the website has a difficult life situation :( < 1311334584 54481 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: That "fizzie_evo_4" on the hill has also been evolvamated. (Well, for some values of, anyway.) < 1311334743 596055 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :VFlib seems to be a library of _graphs_ :) < 1311334800 766513 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's just misleading body text. < 1311334820 785444 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, seems so. < 1311334856 228726 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=840896 describes what they use. < 1311334867 746618 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The library itself lives in some .it address that doesn't want to speak to me. < 1311334883 278997 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Italy, maybe it's on strike. (Who said the art of stereotypisms is dead?) < 1311334907 490971 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~algorith/implement/vflib/distrib/ < 1311334960 22589 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would involve untarballing a tarball to see what it has eaten, far too much work. < 1311334994 249900 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also http://www710.univ-lyon1.fr/~csolnon/LAD.html < 1311335001 348736 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has the library and some documentation. But you need not bother, this was my quest originally anyway :) < 1311335039 150672 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAD's based on a later-published algorithm than VF, so it's unambiguously better. < 1311335054 313230 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, they wouldn't have gotten it published if it were worse, right?) < 1311335086 358506 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAD seems good, on the surface, at least :) < 1311335107 592148 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do benchmark against VF. :p < 1311335150 519158 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAD seems to be really minimalistic, too. < 1311335162 503372 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could be rather easy to extend. < 1311335178 867924 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311335444 256295 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it might not make sense to build a graph rewriting implementation on pure static subgraph isomorphism matcher, either < 1311335472 961033 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because different rewritings can fire others, and there's much room for optimisation there < 1311335483 904716 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it's a good starting point anyway. < 1311335585 731150 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. Seems LAD's algorithm might not be applicable to graph patterns where there are constraints that some edges _not_ exist < 1311335596 626990 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the case of eodermdrome "closed" nodes < 1311336056 301829 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a lot more interesting that I'd thought :) < 1311336306 414287 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, Eodermdrome matching is sort of between finding an isomorphic subgraph and an isomorphic induced subgraph. < 1311336322 18106 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311336334 659367 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the matching rules for eodermdrome are smart indeed < 1311336373 252136 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very nifty way to specify _two_ kinds of constraints on the graph. < 1311336394 468414 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, the existence of some arcs, and the absence of others < 1311336413 667924 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :while still being able to leave the existence of some arcs as "don't care" < 1311336485 779256 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also very "intuitive" how to do the replacement, with the open nodes being the ones that are used to "hang" the new graph in place to the larger state graph. < 1311336527 174220 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is super-perplexing < 1311336532 873762 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311336544 245194 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is caching something somewhere, and i have no idea where it's happening and how to turn it off < 1311336575 595053 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: true, although the rules make it impossible to disconnect arbitrary subgraphs < 1311336605 178995 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in order to leave a node open, you have to mention it on both sides < 1311336627 836327 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in order to mention two nodes on RHS, you have to connect them directly or indirectly < 1311336696 765668 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anytime you want to disconnect a node from some other node, you have to close it - and that means it cannot have a subgraph behind it < 1311336751 886146 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but effectively, the rules of eodermdrome just enforce that the rewrite rules never even produce disjoint graphs. < 1311336784 462801 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: reload(module)? < 1311337226 145723 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, except uwsgi doesn't reload the module on every refresh :p < 1311337232 783179 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've fixed it tho < 1311337772 303406 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1311338193 816428 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep typing undefined as underfined < 1311338209 227999 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got an error message: underfined is not defined < 1311338222 128824 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought it was ironic until I realised my typo < 1311338245 238240 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl scanl f a = map (foldl f a) . inits < 1311338246 220359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scanl = flip flip inits . (((.) . map) .) . foldl < 1311338735 593801 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've translated my BFJoust interpreter to JavaScript < 1311338824 65227 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you do such a th--oh, cool. < 1311338995 681423 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Perl was the earliest language in the C family to have map and filter operators. < 1311339009 628340 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on when they were added. < 1311340147 369679 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map f (x:xs) = f x : map f xs < 1311340148 413217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map = fix (flip flip tail . (ap .) . flip flip head . ((.) .) . liftM2 flip (((.) . (:)) .)) < 1311340195 161710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl map f ls = case ls of [] -> []; (x:xs) -> f x : map f xs < 1311340196 134594 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 26): < 1311340196 412738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected ">" or "-" < 1311340196 610741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or end of input < 1311340851 965271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone out there actually use F#? < 1311340858 844582 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you guys ever used F#? < 1311340960 58499 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any F# users, no. < 1311341557 415013 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :nmcblanket < 1311341573 262487 :nmcblanket!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311341610 479150 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia it is a variant of ML < 1311341722 770633 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311341866 982907 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other sort of algebraic data type mentioned, "discriminated unions" (type-safe versions of C unions), can be defined to hold a value of any of a pre-defined type. < 1311341879 362679 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does Microsoft have to rename everything terribly. < 1311341912 20411 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311341915 90546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually heard someone use the term "managed language" in a conversation recently. < 1311341973 619144 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm pretty sure just means that it runs on a virtual machine and is bytecode compiled. < 1311341993 92077 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some reason Microsoft has to define these new names for things and use those instead, as though it is different somehow. < 1311342189 77496 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The managed/unmanaged distinction is theirs, yes. < 1311342329 163216 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this person said they do not like managed languages. I ask them what they thought that meant < 1311342344 331 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they said it means that it has "hidden code" such as garbage collectors. < 1311342345 333260 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I understand it, managed code is anything represented in the CIL bytecode, though the runtime does not actually run that, it native-code compiles it. I guess it counts as a form of JIT. < 1311342349 402299 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like... are you serious? < 1311342402 153469 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was spoken in the context of not liking managed languages. So in essence he was saying he doesn't like garbage collection or virtual machines. < 1311342424 912102 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :infuriating, but oh well. < 1311342433 640214 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that's his prerogative? < 1311342437 495197 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1311342446 581352 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it is based on stupidity... < 1311342477 223710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked him if he had any problem with using libraries, since this is "hidden code that could potentially cause bugs not in your own code" < 1311342481 964736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was ambivalent. < 1311342495 361399 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there are still happy assembly coders who don't like any safety features either. < 1311342530 966937 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the idea that using a garbage collector will somehow result in all of these bugs that you have no control over < 1311342538 645538 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a silly one. < 1311342550 950661 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought it was about the performance issue. < 1311342558 935523 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. hidden code. < 1311342567 735126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :causes bugs. < 1311342588 438920 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you "aren't new to programming" then manual memory management is practically bugfree.... < 1311342589 611127 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying "hidden code" might equally well mean performance overhead. But I guess you were there. < 1311342597 776423 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is silly. < 1311342621 194277 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was saying that manual memory management will result in /more/ bugs than using a well-tested garbage collector., < 1311342684 186568 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his rebuttal was that experienced programmers don't have to worry about that. < 1311342687 149870 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1311342698 816253 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I am infuriated. :P I should stop remembering this conversation. < 1311342771 432579 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait to interact with these people in a work environment. < 1311342794 75261 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will hate me because I will be all snobby about everything. :P < 1311342805 444025 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST WAIT. < 1311342813 170617 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few years from now. < 1311342817 844145 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I have graduated. < 1311342889 52487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what language I will be programming in when I get a job. My money is on Java or C# if it's a software company. Or Javascript, PHP, Python if it's web programming. < 1311342926 236335 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do serious web-things in quite a plethora of languages nowadays. < 1311342929 529351 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a lot of possibilities, these are just common languages for those things. < 1311342932 819841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1311342947 872217 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby or even Perl is a possibility for web programming. < 1311342969 156436 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ActionScript for sure < 1311343031 80628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once found a programming gig for SBCL (Lisp) < 1311343053 525469 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't have any qualifications for it, unfortunately. < 1311343073 26392 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking forward to mind-numbing layers of parentheses. < 1311343097 283055 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSH Communications famously (well, not quite) mentioned they use Scheme a lot in one of their job ads. < 1311343105 28042 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in possibly the oldest language that is still in common use. < 1311343135 64899 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the form of dialects, granted. < 1311343284 606301 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311343299 358711 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once got a summer job at Nokia (well, their research side) for knowing Perl. Or maybe Befunge. < 1311343325 62856 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is what they wanted done, but esolangs were discussed quite a lot at the interview. < 1311343325 861176 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, nice. < 1311343335 67564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should list my esolangs then. :) < 1311343364 247381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might list Lisp even though I don't really know it, lol. < 1311343381 360773 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning I don't comfortably know a common dialects idioms. < 1311343456 999726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I read SICP, so that counts for something. :P < 1311343501 665523 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did they care about having any kind of work experience with Perl, or was just knowing Perl enough? < 1311343563 596256 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they wanted someone who knew Perl, not just knew about Perl. But certainly no Microsoft Certified Perl Expert qualifications. < 1311343595 619731 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I'm just wondering how they verified such things. < 1311343636 114284 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :By asking me, basically. < 1311343651 850330 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, cool. < 1311343660 471988 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is promising. < 1311343665 299974 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was no Perl quiz or anything, I mean. They just asked me how well I knew it. < 1311343674 655525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it means I can use knowledge of multiple languages in a job interview as an advantage. < 1311343674 853635 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I had to formulate some sort of an answer. < 1311343691 748706 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/1023982 oh god I'm gonna barf. < 1311343693 645508 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently fizzie has had too many fried beans today < 1311343769 497751 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0722/oslo.html < 1311343770 907035 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: what's wrong with that? < 1311343776 458218 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks perfectly reasonable to me. < 1311343782 594053 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been an explostion in Oslo. < 1311343798 604243 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :a class with lambdas < 1311343802 289824 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one really just made me puke < 1311343805 878298 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever does that needs to be killed < 1311343814 756600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that lambdas are bad < 1311343820 1798 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use them like THAT < 1311343821 764749 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that Python's lambdas are bad. < 1311343836 235049 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find lambdas very useful outside of functional programming languages < 1311343836 652082 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311343854 53370 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when you can add multiple statements to it < 1311343855 631284 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1311343859 85653 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :python's lambdas aren't bad, they're just useless < 1311343869 829821 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is a subset of "bad" < 1311343879 466151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless is bad. < 1311343879 744381 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, yet everyone whines when they are proposed for removal... :p < 1311343892 994856 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would much rather like anonymous functions < 1311343900 43788 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses lambdas < 1311343924 151660 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, anonymous functions are lambdas technically. this is what I'm referring to. < 1311343951 770778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Python has a terrible way of delimiting blocks and so anonymous functions are syntactically difficult. < 1311344068 889726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {s/a/b/g;s/c/d/g;} "abcdefg" < 1311344069 933486 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modification of a read-only value attempted at /tmp/input.11021 line 1. < 1311344112 399604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1311344125 284792 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map {s/a/b/gr . s/c/d/gr;} "abcdefg" < 1311344125 741127 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bareword found where operator expected at /tmp/input.11157 line 1, near "s/a/b/gr" < 1311344172 332764 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out I apparently don't know Perl < 1311344178 993576 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though that's what I've been programming in for the past few months. < 1311344308 305710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyways, point to be made is: Perl has anonymous subroutines. people use them. < 1311344330 398872 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole "lambdas are bad style" thing in Python is probably a result of lambdas looking ugly and being highly constrained in Python. < 1311344405 552748 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, the lambda-only class definition actually doesn't look too bad. It's kind of fun to see how you could write a class functionally in Python. < 1311344477 920856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311344521 474655 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, not in python < 1311344541 228392 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, a lambda is an expression, in python a function can be multiple expressions, unlike in many languages that have lambdas < 1311344554 869265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, I know how it works in Python. < 1311344559 981350 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because python is descriptive rather than declarative < 1311344571 942551 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather prescriptive < 1311344578 524938 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...imperitive? < 1311344618 756576 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you describe computations in Python by how they "should" work < 1311344620 425518 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i think "imperative" does not focus on the important aspect of the difference between so called "imperative" languages and so called "functional" langauges < 1311344624 928811 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe you do that in all languages. I don't know. < 1311344639 588908 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can perfectly well say that python is an imperative, functional language < 1311344653 573122 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's not really all that functional. < 1311344665 70751 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional means a function is a first class object < 1311344671 653777 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it is, because you can manipulate functions < 1311344673 43194 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has first-class functions. that's pretty much the extent of it. < 1311344688 771863 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rather like to use "declarative" for what people call "functional" because you can say that the nature of those languages is that they say what things are, rather than how to build them < 1311344693 367684 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not really a functional paradigm. but sure, it's functional. < 1311344701 579251 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the problem < 1311344707 58859 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i say "declarative" instead < 1311344708 998469 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1311344715 277603 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense. < 1311344735 307686 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why i call "imperative" prescriptive, because it prescribes how to get something < 1311344735 881300 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think "has first class functions" is a very flimsy definition of a functional language. < 1311344755 425879 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd word your concern differently < 1311344756 615477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really what I connotate from the word functional. < 1311344767 58704 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"functional" is a very flimsy description of haskell, erlang, ocaml and lisp < 1311344807 657093 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has first-class function pointers. is it functional? :P < 1311344821 446705 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know C well enough to answer that question < 1311344835 287891 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a map in C, it would just need an extra length parameter. < 1311344867 676755 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it wouldn't be declarative < 1311344908 843960 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write it recursively if that's what you mean. < 1311344926 841287 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't declare the map function as its first argument applied to the head of the second, plus map applied to the first argument and tail of the second < 1311344955 318310 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but that's unnatural for the language, and wrong, because it would probably give you a stack overflow < 1311344973 105451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without adding several more parameters it would also be in-place. < 1311345007 365396 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack overflow depends on the length of the array and the size of the call stack of course. < 1311345013 571268 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311345024 219434 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, if your recursion would just mean you pass the recursed function the pointer+1, then you're again iterating < 1311345038 887219 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not really declarative < 1311345043 177752 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by your very weak definition of functional, C is functional. < 1311345051 427701 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1311345055 119150 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wouldn't be surprised? < 1311345058 116539 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not declarative (aka what I consider functional to mean) < 1311345063 872388 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in C you can have SMC < 1311345076 791561 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can create, modify, append, concatenate, and remove functions < 1311345086 261809 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can copy and overwrite them < 1311345103 977529 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to that extent, C is very much functional < 1311345120 388250 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has even features no other languages have such as concatenation of function bodies < 1311345149 90659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't really see the distinction between incrementing a pointer recursively as "iterating" and getting the head and tail of a linked list as being "declarative" < 1311345191 11427 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's think of it as an index, rather than a pointer, that starts at 0, then it's 1, 2, and so on < 1311345214 842285 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this index gives you, at any point, information about the global structure < 1311345240 113891 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells the body of the function "at this point, you are at the 60th element" < 1311345243 987925 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is iteration < 1311345245 419954 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1311345254 191005 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't go back to the 0th element from a recursive call. < 1311345266 643099 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :with head/tail you can't < 1311345284 584941 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't know where you are - your context always assumes that what you're passed is the whole thing < 1311345286 268723 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, also with recursive pointer increments and a length parameter, you cannot deduce where the start of the list is. < 1311345296 418995 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me, array. < 1311345299 328509 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't you? < 1311345317 202106 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not just an index, you can't just set it back to 0 < 1311345326 414835 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have no other information to get you back to the original index. < 1311345340 114476 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the length parameter won't help you. < 1311345356 359585 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what i was talking about < 1311345357 561856 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :an index < 1311345361 991219 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :my function is something like f(i, list, func) { list[i] = func(list[i]); f(i++, list, func); } < 1311345380 977341 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reference to a location in memory, that I am shifting forward one location each recursive iteration. < 1311345396 653745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to how a linked list works, but contiguous in memory. < 1311345416 897319 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if you're given a pointer, then it would be f(start, size, list, func) { list[start] = func(list[start]); f(start+size, size, list, func); } < 1311345423 167558 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i know what you mean < 1311345457 559438 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same thing basically, that if the expressions have no side effects, then what you do in the recursion does not matter. The distinction between iteration and recursion is meaningless because they are equivalent. < 1311345464 16091 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in what i just wrote you're still describing HOW to do something, instead of what you are getting < 1311345481 70780 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're describing the action of going form list to map(list, func) < 1311345520 583964 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell, you are describing the structure of map list func and you are describing it with the nouns "map", "list" and "func" < 1311345580 803460 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe it's that in a prescriptive language basically you have nouns and verbs, in a declarative language you have no verbs < 1311345609 184382 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't "do to " < 1311345635 493112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use verbs all the time in Haskell. < 1311345638 347518 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you say " is an " < 1311345646 354198 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give me an example? < 1311345649 443493 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :map... < 1311345656 440307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f over list < 1311345660 815569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a command. < 1311345664 80353 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold as well < 1311345665 51275 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's just a way to read it < 1311345672 268881 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as is your definition of nouns and verbs... < 1311345716 966843 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say, map paintRed fence = "a fence which is red" < 1311345729 116606 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would say map paintRed fence = "a fence which has been painted red" < 1311345750 714021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. I'm just saying a function is very much like a verb. < 1311345766 637701 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i wouldn't say so < 1311345774 60859 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say a function is just a parametrized value < 1311345794 751835 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you define the function, you *declare* what it is < 1311345800 393968 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you use it, you are using it like a verb. < 1311345813 216706 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really - when you use the function, you declare what the output is < 1311345820 279605 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :y = f x < 1311345838 789091 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i declare y to be an x-ish f < 1311345852 648187 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"y is an f of subtype x" < 1311345858 474846 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just completely arbitrary. < 1311345866 314981 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to perspective. < 1311345872 689197 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (+1) [1..] < 1311345884 114555 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey computer, map this function over this list" < 1311345891 297250 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a list of 1, 2, .. incremented by one" < 1311345913 427387 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "incremented by" is an adverb < 1311345922 350768 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311345938 227591 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so map isn't a verb, it's "a list of" :P < 1311345940 66088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a nount < 1311345941 873193 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it. < 1311345959 439203 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's just what i think when i see map (+1) [1..] < 1311345972 7101 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I say functions are like verbs is because they take arguments < 1311345978 285606 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to how language verbs have subjects and objects. < 1311345996 578283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nouns are more like the constants. < 1311346025 472672 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this discussion resonates quite a lot with what i thought when i first started studying mathematics at the university and first started hearing how people actually talk about mathematical objects at work < 1311346034 638659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjectives and adverbs are also like functions in that they augment or modify existing things (aka their argument) < 1311346051 950571 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was always a case of "function f is ...", never a case of "to get the value of function f, you do ..." < 1311346066 115037 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but functions /do/ things. < 1311346069 447953 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they compute < 1311346076 321362 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i differ < 1311346076 737975 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you declare them, by stating what they are, yes. < 1311346101 434297 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function in mathematics is a constant value, with an argument, which is applied via the substitution principle < 1311346122 737438 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say you have your value q = 1+2 < 1311346168 88551 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can have your value q(x) = 1+x, where what you do is you first take say q(100), then you expand it to 1+x, and then you substitute x := 100 < 1311346169 304564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a function is also an abstraction of a computation. It maps one set of values to another set. < 1311346187 972154 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but a map is a static object < 1311346192 583759 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't change, move, or run < 1311346195 135856 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just is there < 1311346198 119927 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sure. < 1311346214 154939 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :every function exists already in Functions < 1311346223 643896 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions is the set of all functions. :p < 1311346235 321756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying you describe functions by saying what they do. I'm saying that functions themselves describe an action. < 1311346252 927524 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a very important notion in mathematics that mathematical objects do not get created, they get discovered < 1311346259 789543 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've been there all the time, behind your back < 1311346288 348226 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in this way, the \Gamma function wasn't discovered, it was described < 1311346290 552192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a philosphical point I don't think I necessarily agree with. At least not for every mathematical object. < 1311346303 422614 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1311346311 268478 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it wasn't created, it was described < 1311346315 462417 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it's just a system. it's arbitrary in its man-made rules. < 1311346322 691993 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you name a mathematical object which was *created*? < 1311346333 187123 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you don't create concepts. < 1311346352 740631 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you said you don't agree and that some objects were created < 1311346362 598214 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you were referring to something else? < 1311346401 298262 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't believe they are discovered. As if they had existed this whole time. I believe they are constructed at which point they become defined. I don't think nature cares about our abstractions. < 1311346422 257347 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just describe what already existed in nature with concepts we create over time. < 1311346428 25365 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I suppose I am saying they are created. < 1311346492 787231 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, instead i see it this way.. imagine you're in a huge town where you've never been, everyone speaks a language you don't know < 1311346507 4942 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start out at some point and there are trees and you can punch them < 1311346524 863027 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can go to places, and see new things < 1311346531 249392 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do not have to correspond to anything that actually exists. I could devise a completely arbitrary set of rules. would I have simply discovered that mathematical system or did I create it artificially? < 1311346534 203928 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remember the path to those things, that's your definition < 1311346544 934718 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, those things were there before you have defined them < 1311346546 93785 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I discovered it, where was it hiding all of this time? :P < 1311346558 928515 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why are you on that island first of all? < 1311346571 966367 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean what is your business there sir? < 1311346582 510152 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I wasn't referring to your metaphor, actually. < 1311346627 396594 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, your set of rules is the pathway in your mental considerations of mathematics < 1311346644 639784 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lets you arrive at the concept of that mathematical system < 1311346655 405221 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was there, you just haven't ever taken this path before < 1311346697 754320 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems somewhat arrogant to say that mathematics, which is inherently a human conception, somehow /is/ the innate properties of the universe, and not merely an artificial description. < 1311346722 259921 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but mathematics has nothing to do with the universe < 1311346729 238303 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's completely disconnected < 1311346745 923362 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to assign cosmical properties to mathematical objects is called physics < 1311346759 659395 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they only say that the mathematics in question are a model, not that they're the real thing < 1311346762 156630 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I kind of associate existence with being a part of the universe.. < 1311346784 282981 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically what you are saying to me is that you can discover mathematical objects, but they don't really exist. < 1311346786 478701 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no physicist will tell you that the string theory is the nature of the universe < 1311346811 962290 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1311346817 174675 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, existence is a tricky thing. < 1311346836 724236 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying that mathematical objects exist, and that they always have, and that they are not assigned to any physical objects. < 1311346842 687302 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1311346856 369375 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :physical in the meaning of "tangible" < 1311346886 722973 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas exist, certainly. But how do you discover ideas? < 1311346899 842559 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be made by an intelligence being at some point. < 1311346910 252769 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*intelligent < 1311346942 670903 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't give me that platonic ideal crap :P ) < 1311346943 366298 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say that definitions can be made < 1311346950 84098 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might have been no definition of the idea < 1311346959 885309 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means the idea was outside of your holographic bubble < 1311346979 651647 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can create a definition, by which you arrive at the concept < 1311346997 710932 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the creation of the definition is a secondary concern, it's a means to an end: the concept < 1311347011 610027 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I just find it strange to thing that the idea of freedom of speech existed before any intelligent life thought it up. < 1311347011 888283 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept, in itself, is what interests us, not the definition of it < 1311347025 392525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/thing/think < 1311347048 838620 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice how even in english you can "have" an idea, but not "create" an idea < 1311347055 6454 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have it, meaning you grasp it < 1311347062 859597 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in your hand < 1311347085 989189 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :before, it was not available < 1311347096 12599 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like a fruit high up on a tree < 1311347113 993120 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I can understand all of that. I just don't believe there's much distinction then, really. < 1311347123 868467 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is < 1311347131 85126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we are talking about is practically the same. because an idea might as well not exist until it is available to us. < 1311347142 433250 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because look at it: the definition of an idea is secondary to the idea itself, would you agree? < 1311347145 190135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... whether ot not it existed before someone thought of it is somewhat irrelevant. < 1311347152 585282 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition being our action of discovering the idea < 1311347203 102871 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. This is just all too human-centered (or intelligence-centered, if you prefer) to really convince me that these things existed since the dawn of time. < 1311347224 812035 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but look at it this way < 1311347235 189971 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time interval known as a second has existed before humanity < 1311347249 484393 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be very egoistic to think that seconds have not existed before humans described them < 1311347269 714747 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interval of time existed sure, but seconds as an idea didn't. < 1311347272 92024 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were intervals of time of length one second before humanity! < 1311347277 924696 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, anyways < 1311347307 228515 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm trying to say is that the difference between the idea and definition is similar to the difference between declarative and prescriptive definitions < 1311347325 501370 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess? < 1311347329 536640 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea :: definition == declarative definition :: prescriptive definition < 1311347340 614044 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a prescriptive definition is that one step further from the idea < 1311347364 782957 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will write a language that goes one step closer than declarative! < 1311347378 121327 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be neat < 1311347381 711054 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what that would be < 1311347382 127650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the ideas just exist without definition or something. < 1311347392 260827 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic. < 1311347404 593434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or impossible probably. < 1311347425 599302 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impossible magic < 1311347426 244800 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, can I be an agnostic on the matter? < 1311347435 962410 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can see that a prescriptive definition could be improved < 1311347443 670948 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what the next step would be < 1311347474 585418 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in prescriptive definitions, imo, we have verbs, nouns, and adjectives from which we make those definitions < 1311347476 214289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't know if the idea existed before the point of grasping because it was not known to us before that point. < 1311347487 213142 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in declarative definitions we seem to have nouns and adjectives < 1311347493 219187 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we do with just adjectives? < 1311347519 856895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think natural language makes a very good metaphor for programming languages. < 1311347521 906207 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i say "x is five-element, rising, starting-with-one"? < 1311347535 8992 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be a definition for [1, ... 5]? < 1311347541 19014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the worst ideas in Perl are based on natural language metaphor < 1311347561 216628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they're comparable. < 1311347572 600678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sentences cannot have as deep of a structure as a program expression. < 1311347587 12428 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you call this a "descriptive language"? < 1311347589 834245 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the distinction between verbs and adjectives and adverbs as separate modifiers becomes more irrelevant. < 1311347606 106761 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :descriptive, imperitive, or interrogative < 1311347628 540699 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean this "adjectives only" language < 1311347632 477074 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1311347633 564291 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be called "descriptive"? < 1311347641 664283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, well, I would call any language descriptive. < 1311347648 108910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is what language is for. < 1311347661 912926 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, if you define things with adjectives, you define everything by describing it, right? < 1311347683 670862 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. I can't really imagine how you would not describe something in a language. < 1311347690 821432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I write an algorithm in C without describing it in some way? < 1311347737 450320 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you construct things < 1311347739 417572 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By not using any comments? < 1311347748 559868 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C you basically construct things < 1311347750 366524 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And obfuscating it loads? < 1311347757 238943 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I describe those constructions. < 1311347767 412075 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with elements of a language. < 1311347772 539869 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that's on meta-level to the language < 1311347776 259117 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mix those up < 1311347809 819138 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C you say "take some flour, some eggs, some water, and baking powder, mix them together, and you have dough" < 1311347822 881117 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell you say "dough is a micture of flour, eggs, water, and baking powder" < 1311347830 341620 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you describe the steps. functions are descriptions of algorithms. < 1311347839 900781 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't describe the steps on haskell < 1311347847 148363 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, you describe what it is. < 1311347891 859118 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically what I am saying is that all languages are descriptive. You cannot have a language that does not describe something. < 1311347893 668859 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not with dough, but with e.g. a milk shake it's not important if you first put the strawberries, the milk, or the sugar in the mixer < 1311347918 932152 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have a chocolate milkshake < 1311347947 455837 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that you don't need to be told the consequence of actions of putthing those things in the shaker < 1311347950 560689 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, heh < 1311347957 312289 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yes, on a meta-level you're right, but you're again talking in terms of the meta-language, not the language itself < 1311347964 759935 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, C describes actions.. < 1311347973 435375 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the language itself is actions. < 1311347987 767559 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1311347993 379103 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a PROGRAM in C is actions < 1311347997 380697 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language is a...... description of actions. < 1311347998 634280 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is the description of those actions < 1311348002 60915 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok < 1311348009 391614 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good, we have converged there nicely < 1311348022 932293 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a haskell program is a declaration of objects < 1311348031 19715 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or items < 1311348038 505240 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The declarations are describtions < 1311348055 642839 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i wouldn't say so. < 1311348067 163315 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a cookie dough recipe a description of a ready cookie? < 1311348074 219870 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing with declarative programming languages is that they still semantically perform computations < 1311348075 946723 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much < 1311348077 853581 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1311348080 138862 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I often prefer to think in this way when I am writing in them. < 1311348083 214132 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a description of how to make a cookie < 1311348090 786443 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311348096 321150 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the cookie that interests us < 1311348097 657726 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a description < 1311348124 882356 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, you define cookie as "take dough igredients, put in dish one by one, stir, put on pan, bake in 180 degrees for 1 hour" < 1311348132 607117 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably a very wrong recipe < 1311348150 382073 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have any chocolate chips < 1311348167 31557 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes my approach is flawed. For example, using the approach of asking "how do I get the fibonacci sequence in Haskell", I would never think of the this definition < 1311348172 601512 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell, you define cookie as "a heat-treated mixture of dough ingredients" < 1311348179 538551 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tails fibs) < 1311348187 295894 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With chocolate chips < 1311348188 129966 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *tail < 1311348213 858038 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, i'm not even debating the practicality of those families of languages < 1311348216 660536 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, think about this < 1311348224 559747 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I wasn't even debating with those statements. :P < 1311348232 139859 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in prescriptive and declarative languages, you *start out with something* < 1311348256 806519 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that you have to have items, and from these items new items are generated < 1311348257 459302 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, can't make something from nothing. :P < 1311348264 836460 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather: new items are defined in relation from old items < 1311348266 943221 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you sure can < 1311348297 344271 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of similar to a definition of a geometric complex < 1311348302 660687 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the right word? < 1311348311 973706 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me quickly google < 1311348313 337779 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a... building? < 1311348317 810474 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean like geometric series? < 1311348325 767108 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he means like a pentagon < 1311348338 937905 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me "geometric complex" means a building. lol < 1311348351 951238 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :geometric structure? geometric object? geometric construction? < 1311348360 472635 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last one sounds right < 1311348364 340566 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are all pretty synonymy < 1311348370 152445 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with complex. except object. < 1311348376 794709 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better yet < 1311348380 488173 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about just sets < 1311348387 729133 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics loves sets. < 1311348390 168207 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a convex set is simple to describe < 1311348390 830354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun. < 1311348408 259427 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a convex set is the intersection of convex sets < 1311348424 610183 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a convex geometrical complex is even simpler to describe < 1311348432 888053 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an intersection of half-spaces < 1311348458 490286 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a half-space is a set where on one side of a surface it's full, and on the other side it's empty < 1311348458 768850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you need to define certain sets as convex sets in order to actuall have any convex sets? < 1311348476 213250 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you make a convex geometrical complex by taking a block of wood, and lopping off bits in straight cuts < 1311348489 723100 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, you don't need to < 1311348493 212072 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just an example < 1311348526 255127 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the definition is recursive. I don't see how it could apply to anything if there's nothing that is innately convex. < 1311348538 449207 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1311348541 968035 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" a convex set is the intersection of convex sets" <<< what :D < 1311348542 166243 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's declarative < 1311348562 418920 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but... it declares nothing. < 1311348579 142374 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true for any family of sets < 1311348602 647013 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT FOR CONCAVE SETS, SUCKER < 1311348609 817873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is {1,2,3} a convex set? What are the convex sets it is an intersection of, and how are those sets convex? < 1311348628 314507 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yeah, that was not a definition, it was just a picture i used < 1311348636 536130 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a visualization < 1311348644 116656 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the convex geometrical complex < 1311348650 482589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so it's just a property of convex sets and not the definition. < 1311348653 432963 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's defined as an intersection of half-spaces < 1311348685 954632 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have defined half-spaces declaratively, and i have defined convex geometrical complexes declaratively < 1311348696 36998 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the point again? :P < 1311348700 803594 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well here's the thing < 1311348739 937824 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also define convex sets like this. it's a bit more complicated, but you define some starting sets, and then you can create all convex sets from them. < 1311348747 414493 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1311348752 940989 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also define convex sets like this: < 1311348771 588333 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a convex set is a set which is convex < 1311348776 649689 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning, it has the property of convexity < 1311348782 257935 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311348784 341185 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a test for the property of convexity looks like this: < 1311348790 769393 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a true statement is a statement that is true. < 1311348812 638534 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any two points of the set, create a line segment between those two points. if the line segment is a subset of the set in question, then that set is convex. < 1311348828 420565 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has to hold for all pairs of points. < 1311348837 821972 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wording there isn't perfect :) < 1311348856 71860 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand that it looks banal right now < 1311348869 738746 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once you start adding more and more adjectives you can e.g. define a torus, a sphere, and so on < 1311348884 487344 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my perfectionistic brain is formulating all kinds of nasty inconsistencies in your terribly non-rigorous definition. < 1311348890 394137 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1311348950 61578 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ball is a set which is open and which has the property of neighbourhood, meaning that all points are within a neighbourhood to a special point called the center < 1311348978 857184 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" NOT FOR CONCAVE SETS, SUCKER" <<< a concave set is the intersection of concave sets, but i guess you meant convex sets are closed under intersection? so are the finite sets. < 1311348991 337824 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ice cream is delicious < 1311348999 183167 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i am still starting with the definition of "set" < 1311349001 8329 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT! < 1311349016 227349 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mathematics, you can lead everything back to the definition of a set < 1311349043 651263 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that if you start out with any definition, it turns out it's just a bunch of sets glued together in special ways. < 1311349053 658034 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "set" is the Ur-Element < 1311349065 155915 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what the whole world is made out of, in mathematics < 1311349091 16578 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in computer languages you have many non-equal Ur-Elements < 1311349091 896443 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, turns out stuff is just groups of stuff. < 1311349106 382952 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have functions, integers, floats, etc < 1311349156 6782 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, what i think i'm saying is that in a declarative language you define things with other things < 1311349156 816967 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeglobs, don't forget those. < 1311349171 421555 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in a descriptive language, you would define things without other things < 1311349188 526752 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if that's a good idea at all < 1311349195 790395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fiboncci sequence is...... < 1311349204 687213 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, what do I say now? < 1311349209 711491 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, good question < 1311349233 48896 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's look at it differently < 1311349248 881667 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about.. cars < 1311349344 847682 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C you'd say to get a maserati GT you'd take a ferrari 430, you'd then change the body work, and then you'd furnish it with a nice interior < 1311349393 110415 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell, you'd say a maserati gt is a ferrari 430 - bodywork - interior + new body work + new interior < 1311349407 552801 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually in C a masterati GT is just a bunch of pointers. < 1311349418 333615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bytes. < 1311349440 240780 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a descriptive language, you'd say a maserati gt is a car which is this and this long, it's this and this high, its dimensions are this and that, and its parts are made out of the following materials < 1311349465 493558 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you have just defined a maserati GT without ever knowing that there's something called a ferrari 430 < 1311349492 27048 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to program descriptively is to program declaratively in a roundabout way. < 1311349493 942411 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if your description is detailed enough, you will have defined a car which requires what we know as the ferrari 430 engine < 1311349499 992443 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not really < 1311349512 191351 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can describe things imprecisely or more precisely < 1311349533 663900 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say "a ball is a set with the property of neighborhood" < 1311349548 453104 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for most things, this will fit well enough < 1311349565 850015 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, for a real ball, d(B) = {} < 1311349574 18231 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas for our imprecise ball, d(B) = S < 1311349602 681184 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, that's not really important if you're just using balls to, say, define what a 3-dimensional object is < 1311349629 389011 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's an improvement over declarative languages < 1311349676 519270 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a different example < 1311349686 840415 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :persons < 1311349693 115675 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :people :) < 1311349736 647246 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311349747 38195 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say in C "to construct Joe, you take Chandler's sperm, and Monica's egg, you fertilize it, you grow the fetus in a womb, and then you let it mature for 30 years and you have Joe" < 1311349762 882155 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskell you can say "Joe is the son of Chandler and Monica" < 1311349802 774630 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a descriptive language you would say "Joe has medium-short dark hair, black eyes, of italian descent, is 30 years old, slightly overweight, and likes sandwiches" < 1311349909 567354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (`replicateM` "+-[]<>.,") >>= [0..] < 1311349943 552875 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in brainfuck, you'd say one of the strings that this Haskell program produces < 1311349951 706656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't really sure how to work that in English so I did that instead. < 1311349961 700434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+is Joe < 1311350037 483324 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure how that is related. < 1311350046 368376 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying it's unrelated, i just can't parse this. < 1311350267 14048 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311350446 436643 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i explain well what "descriptive" is? < 1311350537 675568 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be wrong to improve other's BF Joust programs and submit them to EgoJoust as my own? < 1311350559 996828 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it would be cool < 1311350569 707149 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly NICK :FireFly < 1311350582 303413 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it was only an extremely minor improvement? < 1311350593 118714 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN MORE SO. < 1311350594 756684 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311350600 762262 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm feeling to guilty. < 1311350617 620823 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly? I improved your BF Joust program "meh" < 1311350633 211744 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1311350643 721114 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want it? < 1311350653 158701 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not < 1311350666 195309 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"->(+>->)*4([-]>)*21" < 1311350681 147156 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your original stopped just short of the finish on the longest tape length < 1311350688 210705 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311351071 274898 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You going to submit that, or can I? < 1311351129 573583 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well SOMEONE submit it already :\ < 1311351139 711345 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about the children < 1311351166 40471 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fireflys_meh_improved ->(+>->)*4([-]>)*21 < 1311351168 677317 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Taneb_fireflys_meh_improved: 20.6 < 1311352047 757359 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just.. you know, borrow it < 1311352049 632543 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind < 1311352070 41313 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also rename it :P < 1311352589 868684 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I rename it? < 1311352596 271195 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what should I rename it to? < 1311352957 792015 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-225.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311352959 700752 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311353091 991586 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, switching computers < 1311353100 754668 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311353134 12636 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311353456 307607 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311354200 304140 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've adjusted my random BF program generator to only make ones with matching brackets < 1311354568 227057 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apparently Python has a maximum recursion depth < 1311354570 358728 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1311354617 382524 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes a ridiculously long error message < 1311354830 739759 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311355159 806009 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :While loops work almost as well < 1311355775 814906 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311356067 144121 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311356076 17724 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah python only does fail recursion < 1311356079 656025 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311356745 525644 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311357271 913233 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311357543 370541 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311357623 811681 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311357810 221223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311357889 11760 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311358168 235205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that was an unexpected security update < 1311358174 608211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary code execution in logrotate, of all things < 1311358176 685850 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1311358184 35056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :drivers/net/loopback.c is so strange... 217 lines... And absolutely no code related to handling packets at all. Just some statistics stuff and driver registering/deregistering code < 1311358185 8103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1311358193 741008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the Debian/Ubuntu package < 1311358194 18539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what...? < 1311358197 514327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how? < 1311358200 616853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also vlc, but that's more plausible < 1311358215 491668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: giving it a malformed config filename on the command line < 1311358225 148405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it calculates its length wrong and does a buffer overflow, or something < 1311358237 135278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it requires root then basically on normal setups? < 1311358260 354191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too worried then. No obvious way to use this for privilege escalation. < 1311358299 130492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed, it seems not to be suid < 1311358300 767859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably OK < 1311358305 933665 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a privilege escalation bug in logrotate earlier. < 1311358310 627553 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though not in the default configuration. < 1311358322 415605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I assume it has some SUID configuration? < 1311358345 112186 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A shell command injection flaw was found in the way logrotate handled the shred directive. A specially-crafted log file could cause logrotate to execute arbitrary commands with the privileges of the user running logrotate (root, by default). Note: The shred directive is not enabled by default. (CVE-2011-1154)" < 1311358351 448509 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311358354 140145 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you'd still need to be able to craft that logfile. < 1311358366 883488 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how specially it would need to be crafted. < 1311358379 863715 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. would it be enough to just write a user-agent field in an apache log or something. < 1311358384 348458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never do say, for good reason < 1311358448 848015 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The summary may also be a bit misleading; from the CVE overview it looks like you'd need to put shell metacharacters in the log file name itself. < 1311358468 2384 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just being able to insert stuff in a logfile wouldn't be enough. < 1311358477 440692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is logrotate written in shellscript? or just uses the shell to do some of its commands? < 1311358507 657230 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The shred_file function in logrotate.c in logrotate 3.7.9 and earlier might allow --" < 1311358514 192729 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the latter. < 1311358569 43199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind immediately went "bash has functions, and a .c extension doesn't necessarily mean anything" < 1311358572 440796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I admit you're probably right < 1311358595 342827 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "shred" configuration directive causes it to use an external command for supposedly-secure log file deletion. < 1311358606 467125 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it was passing the log file name to that without worrying about metacharacters. < 1311358635 563301 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did it in a systemy fashion and not an execy one. < 1311358638 678309 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311358653 60481 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends whether it goes through the shell parsing and whether the filename starts with - < 1311358676 892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm.... echo -n '#!/bin/bash\n...' > foo.hs < 1311358689 736959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1311358691 411959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -e < 1311358693 153002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not -n < 1311358695 591170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1311358750 771966 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311358823 170399 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing you can do on shebang lines is to type -- after the name of the program, at least, is my idea. But modern kernel don't do suid with #! scripts anyways... but I still type -- when a shell script meant to be run on root account anyways < 1311359676 450615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't you need both? < 1311359683 865863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo has to quote its command line literally if the first arg isn't -n < 1311359694 422101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in POSIX mode, you have to do -n -e in order to get escaping with GNU echo < 1311359717 592559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1311359722 53812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I didn't know that < 1311359726 831030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about -ne? < 1311359733 500482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have to be separate < 1311359748 551143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(POSIX leaves -n's behaviour impl-defined; GNU echo defines it as "suppress final newline and also accept the -e option") < 1311359765 563959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, implementation defined? Seriously? < 1311359774 737935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's a lot of impl-defined stuff in POSIX < 1311359777 543618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so... what do other echos do with -n < 1311359788 759739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: some echo it literally < 1311359801 455428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311359817 89086 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's the traditional UNIX behavior. < 1311359827 397874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been discovering all sorts of interesting things about POSIX recently < 1311359833 427799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as mount(2) being nonstandard < 1311359843 12374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Linux-specific; I certainly didn't expect that < 1311359843 846800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so why did POSIX say that -n was implementation defined at all? Why not just don't have it? < 1311359855 565245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because some echos do suppress final newline on -n < 1311359860 31516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, afaik mount(1) is non-standard too < 1311359871 948416 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Echo cannot accept arguments. < 1311359879 208308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, yes it can... -n :P < 1311359884 28618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mount(1) isn't a syscall, so I didn't look at it < 1311359887 992770 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1311359898 428935 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: POSIX forbids echo from accepting arguments. < 1311359900 1681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, according to ais523 and POSIX? < 1311359914 328435 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It also leaves "-n" implementation-defined. < 1311359918 751799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311359927 89147 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it's not an argument. < 1311359928 904847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, which leaves a way open for it to accept options :P < 1311359932 800219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it doesn't take -n as an argument, it takes it as a string that might cause it to act differently < 1311359937 661687 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311359941 748178 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Precisely. < 1311359949 876744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, though at least freebsd has mount(1) I know. Probably a few other *nix too < 1311359966 189673 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: mount(1) is available in pretty much every UNIX. < 1311359969 941996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine most *nix do, because the FHS is written in a way that expects mount(1) exists < 1311359974 436428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm pretty surprise it isn't standard < 1311359991 54473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd expect mount(2) to exist in a range of Unices too, just because mount(1) has to do the mounting somehow < 1311360005 969616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, hm. what is the difference between POSIX and Unix exactly? The SuS I guess? But I haven't seen that for ages < 1311360021 898173 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: POSIX is a "portable operating system" specification. < 1311360036 223463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, where is Unix defined then, the extra bits like mount(1) and so on < 1311360037 402015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: UNIX is a class of operating systems which generally meet the above spec. < 1311360044 179475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loosely defined. < 1311360052 270435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, I think Cygwin aims to be POSIXy, not UNIXy < 1311360057 448810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, Single Unix Specification, remember seeing that somewhere... < 1311360064 781257 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was like years ago < 1311360066 232544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I went and wrote my own statically-linked version of true(1) < 1311360068 945839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and straced it < 1311360071 754086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004 edition or something < 1311360074 772312 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SUS is a strict superset of POSIX. < 1311360077 555517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and? < 1311360081 324628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any guesses as to which syscalls it uses? (it uses three of them) < 1311360090 338942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I haven't seen any SUS for POSIX.1-2008 yet < 1311360098 530782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, four, I think there's a call to brk in there too < 1311360099 130777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well exit is one < 1311360104 273679 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It exists. < 1311360106 933293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's the obvious one < 1311360111 555067 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUSv4. < 1311360121 602060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also uses mmap (presumably startup code getting memory) < 1311360123 84047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, isn't that for the 2001 version? < 1311360126 233426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uname, which is the WTFy one < 1311360128 898151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. < 1311360135 233882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah wtf < 1311360137 169716 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make "true" and "false" programs shell builtins or write them as programs using machine code, it would not be too difficult to do on each machine; you can also have a C version of the program in case using on computers that it hasn't been ported yet. < 1311360152 697147 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, that's v3. < 1311360153 500445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: true generally doesn't need to be massively optimised < 1311360159 681729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm a little unsure as to what it's doing calling uname < 1311360160 515606 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, mount is not SUS. < 1311360161 906494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it is a shell built-in in bash < 1311360170 572063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ type true < 1311360170 769882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true is a shell builtin < 1311360171 533952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is a version of true I wrote myself, it called no functions < 1311360175 400786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for false < 1311360178 356766 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311360178 617821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: $ type `which true` < 1311360186 530720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, it is that as well < 1311360191 404278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1311360194 773204 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it doesn't *need* to be massively optimized, although it can be done so easily since you don't need all the C stuff and so on. < 1311360202 73776 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You need to be able to exec true and false in POSIX. < 1311360203 120016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ type `which true` < 1311360203 318030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/true is /bin/true < 1311360204 23272 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311360207 77273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happily, ls isn't segfaulting any more < 1311360207 274923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(silly output) < 1311360224 998962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may actually have found a kernel bug; my statically-linked version of cat ended up with two stacks at one point, which overlapped < 1311360239 362064 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also fun: there is precisely one file guaranteed to exist in POSIX. < 1311360242 56744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard to tell, because what I was doing was insane < 1311360243 253575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how? < 1311360244 378007 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /dev/null. < 1311360244 807481 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311360247 442668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see if I can reproduce it standalone < 1311360247 720430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311360253 734236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, :D < 1311360263 12817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it turns out that Linux doesn't like you mmaping to the stack guard page < 1311360270 346790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can imagine that < 1311360271 195237 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes you can just make a machine code file. Such optimization is not particularly important although it can be done very easily. < 1311360274 47102 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311360275 233142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why the fuck would you even do that < 1311360275 431606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the page before the stack that's unallocated so stack overflows can cause segfaults) < 1311360285 72427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, nothing was using it... < 1311360297 666888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it reacts to it by allowing the map and shrinking the stack one page < 1311360300 471767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You might even be able to store the program in the ELF header, and this can be done for some other programs too) < 1311360302 139441 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1311360302 337600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, where is /dev/zero defined btw? I kind of relied on that in some shell scripts I think. Nothing to serious if the file is not there < 1311360310 330303 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wrote =+ 1 instead of += 1 < 1311360313 399781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug seems to happen if you do it repeatedly, after doing it twice I ended up with two stacks of different lengths, according to /proc/self/maps < 1311360328 980295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: well, nothing was using it... <-- were you out of other available pages to mmap? < 1311360333 425562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1311360338 492786 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus side is, I have ice cream < 1311360344 434956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you even *need* to specify a specific address to mmap it at? < 1311360345 150075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd written "mmap the last available page before the stack", without thinking of implications < 1311360348 679878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I did < 1311360354 846660 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Traditional behavior. < 1311360361 745095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why on earth? Hardware related? < 1311360363 174038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the exact value didn't matter, I needed to specify something < 1311360366 111531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, not because of that < 1311360370 910351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then what < 1311360378 622766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ouch < 1311360380 816095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this program is insane, I thought you'd realised that by now < 1311360392 663916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how else can you make ls segfault? < 1311360394 57669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how soon until you can tell us what on earth it does < 1311360402 211440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: when I've finished it) < 1311360402 489060 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also LSB. < 1311360411 447605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\)// < 1311360414 480954 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with /dev/tty, and *nothing else*. < 1311360416 612729 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason they purchased ice cream is because ice cream is good to eat and anyways they don't sell cane. O no, their mother will get mad at them when they get home. < 1311360420 93047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea when that is? next week? next month? next year? in 10 years? < 1311360434 648194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about a week of actually working on it < 1311360439 428532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I probably won't work on it continuously < 1311360442 391411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, You are making interest sky rocket when you keep mentioning it like this :P < 1311360447 350601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know < 1311360460 305498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what API does X use to actually draw on screen? framebuffer? < 1311360466 473891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I will be feel very let down if it isn't something spectacular! < 1311360475 722436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I presume it depends on the driver. < 1311360481 819256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that makes sense < 1311360487 356377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying, but makes sense < 1311360491 806393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to have to reimplement X too < 1311360493 949503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for most drivers, part is done in kernel < 1311360505 391143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not only for binary drivers < 1311360514 913286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reimplementing init was easy, reimplementing mmap only took a day or so (because I hadn't realised that ASLR was turned on, and then it took me a while to figure out how to turn it off for just one process) < 1311360568 851549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my guess for something like nvidia binary driver would be that it mmaps a range of shared pages with the kernel module... And what the kernel does is hard to know, some DMA thing probably < 1311360580 755625 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The fuck are you *doing*? < 1311360592 747039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it's a secret for now < 1311360601 20208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would presume a similar setup for most other drivers < 1311360609 237424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment specifically, I'm making a list of all the syscalls in Linux and sorting them into categories < 1311360610 359074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least all that have hardware acceleration < 1311360634 519804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, somehow I can't imagine controlling a screen by PIO using syscalls for each written byte :P < 1311360635 407649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, *most* Linux X drivers are actually going through the DRM layer. < 1311360636 452505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux actually has undocumented syscalls, but from a grep of the kernel, they all appear to do nothing < 1311360642 486089 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not even *slightly* X-specific. < 1311360660 958672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, undocumented ones such as? < 1311360663 673398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm trying to do with that is to confuse X into thinking it's talking to the kernel, when in fact it's talking to a usermode process < 1311360668 757533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to grab its output/input < 1311360674 937762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: let me check < 1311360689 176410 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Um, good luck in the general case. < 1311360697 609749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: _newselect < 1311360700 121542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: indeed < 1311360707 829376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that uh... How would you grab it's output? That doesn't even make sense. Use a X server that targets vnc or such instead. Much saner < 1311360715 822455 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's effectively a kernel-mode process for some drivers. < 1311360716 180758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen some of those < 1311360717 890777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work out whether it's easier or harder than reimplementing X < 1311360741 295901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just reuse an X server that uses vnc as backend < 1311360743 265664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists < 1311360750 13201 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also Wayland, although in my opinion neither X nor Wayland is designed perfectly. < 1311360755 299667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that might be worth considering < 1311360759 751784 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, anything where it needs to have the GPU's framebuffer mmaped. < 1311360779 267122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume you don't care about hardware acceleration anyway... Because that will be impossible in your setup. < 1311360783 358968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about SDL? it appears to use framebuffer as a fallback (I actually ran Wesnoth on the control-alt-F1 console, although I had to be root), but I can't figure out what it's using as its first choice < 1311360790 501408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I do care, I want to make sure it isn't being used < 1311360798 515444 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Depends on environment variables. < 1311360806 187487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then the vnc variant should work :P < 1311360808 205528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, good to know < 1311360842 239364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I believe there is an x11-framebuffer server too < 1311360852 569689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot what it was called < 1311360861 196279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one thing I've pretty much admitted defeat on is UIDs, I don't think you can namespace those in Linux < 1311360884 174939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, if everything went through framebuffer, then it'd make life easier, as framebuffer is just the one character special device < 1311360887 779045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to implement < 1311360888 195780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, do you know where the code for the loopback interface is in the kernel? It isn't drivers/net/loopback.c, at least not for the actual packet handling... < 1311360924 681319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is just one X11 backend though. You are not going to pull this off for the general case. < 1311360980 31304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need to be the general case wrt X backends < 1311360982 866401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wrt programs < 1311360985 421825 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, a conforming C environment is permitted to make X just summon nasal demons, anyways. < 1311360997 30349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programs don't care about the backend, just the frontend < 1311361034 581943 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I would think can be good is to have a SDL-like interface, where you have different windows and the window manager owns the root window and can intercept things from the child windows and do some other stuff. And can also have clipboard buffers such as PRIMARY, SECONDARY, CLIPBOARD. The "screen size" is actually the size of the window < 1311361042 740641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well as long as you don't plan to get nvidia-settings, catalyst-control-center or other similar softwares running :P < 1311361054 630984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh, I think I'll give a miss on nvidia-settings < 1311361059 710607 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nasal demons. < 1311361061 181233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'd expect that to work < 1311361063 574327 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :) < 1311361067 199977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ping(1) I'm putting off for later < 1311361077 209885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, right < 1311361097 609569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm shouldn't be TOO hard in 3.0 what with the new SOCK_ICMP thingy < 1311361128 718742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's doable, it's just not a priority < 1311361135 368660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges#line-69 < 1311361138 356135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is simulating the other end of the connection < 1311361148 72550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get it to send the pong < 1311361149 878101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what the... < 1311361178 16618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you know what might be easier? Running two linux in qemu and set up a virtual network between them < 1311361185 953963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux instances* < 1311361188 120834 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should do so that you can run Linux properly with various devices but not needing any proprietary drivers running on the CPU. < 1311361209 222081 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And not even included in the system) < 1311361237 412120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, yes, that seems like the simplest method < 1311361246 453716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm pretty certain you are doing some sort of layer-above-kernel to virtualise or emulate user space programs, making them not know what their environment is < 1311361258 682289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why you are doing it this insane way you are doing though < 1311361268 925899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably I have missed some important thing here < 1311361273 340022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, that's a decent description for what I'm doing, although it doesn't explain why < 1311361279 733473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you've noted < 1311361311 113925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there USB Plan 9 Protocol drivers for Windows and Linux? (and also FreeBSD and Mac OS X) < 1311361332 476182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh there are plenty of reasons, I just don't know which one. Could be as a security measure for example. Or for running older software. Or for a controlled testbed environment (the "simulating the other end of the connection" bit seems to point at this) < 1311361339 447343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are plenty of other options < 1311361370 687657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that "always pid 2" points towards a controlled reproducible testbed environment too < 1311361381 749487 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any USB devices that use Plan 9 Protocol? < 1311361388 893098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I doubt it < 1311361393 724012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... what < 1311361395 175230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 isn't all that popular among hardware manufacturers < 1311361404 95645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't USB devices use the USB protocol? < 1311361418 150881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how the fuck would it even work otherwise < 1311361458 609221 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I mean using the Plan 9 Protocol on top of the USB protocol. < 1311361476 816850 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311361479 308832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, on top of which USB device type protocol? < 1311361490 127404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it defines things like mass storage, HID, and so on iirc < 1311361509 180004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I guess there is some type reserved for "vendor specific" < 1311361512 892127 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, maybe it is necessary to add a new device type (or maybe not) < 1311361551 518454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or as an alternate data on top of an existing protocol depending on the device (if this is possible) < 1311361579 504361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1311361609 626305 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I think they should be designed any new kind of USB device, instead of using proprietary protocols you can use Plan 9 Protocol instead. < 1311361681 322022 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Plan 9 even have a driver for using Plan 9 Protocol on USB? < 1311361698 610470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what /is/ the plan 9 protocol exactly? < 1311361736 186870 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's Plan 9's remote filesystem protocol. < 1311361745 997899 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, being Plan 9, therefore Plan 9's remote everything protocol. < 1311361755 686472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so not suitable for general purpose USB really? < 1311361760 369370 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it is! < 1311361765 818960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what about interrupts? < 1311361769 533183 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, everything is a file. < 1311361780 614278 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For reals. < 1311361800 685219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, yes I know. But what about interrupts, suspending the usb bus, and so on < 1311361829 795838 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1311362060 527261 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that Dresden Codak remains on the tenth strip of an arc that began over a year ago.
< 1311362070 13810 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1311362079 557023 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try OS/2 Warp now < 1311362200 977985 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that Dresden Codak has the worst update schedule.
< 1311362212 904727 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ah, I see your mistake. < 1311362221 946653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are assuming that there *is* an update schedule. < 1311362230 822508 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That is the worst update schedule. < 1311362258 792953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, can it be called an update schedule if there are no updates? < 1311362262 132333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what about that webcomic that elliott talk about. That hardly ever updates? < 1311362272 98204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot what it was called? < 1311362272 296810 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perry Bible? < 1311362277 207582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?// < 1311362282 715858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think it had Torvalds in it < 1311362299 551629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and RMS and so on < 1311362302 500317 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Everybody Loves Eric Raymond. < 1311362316 283459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that hardly ever updates either < 1311362319 484532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one which, when it updates, will be the harbinger of the apocalypse. < 1311362329 235826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311362351 587855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point was, that must be a worse update schedule < 1311362439 962055 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are making the same mistake. < 1311362456 575721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For there to be an update schedule, updates must, at some point, come out. < 1311362466 898638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is an update-schedule: int days_to_next_updates = random() < 1311362476 4431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't they be scheduled to come out once every ten years, or whatever? < 1311362478 369171 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just as well ask the update schedule of a banana. < 1311362481 575693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what's RAND_MAX on your system? 2^32-1? < 1311362491 747959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well random returns a long int on my system < 1311362495 887795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311362502 740259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rand() != random() though < 1311362507 236639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1311362509 209915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :different types on return value < 1311362515 158956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed, but to infer this two updates ten years apart would have to have come and less than ten years would have had to have passed since the last. < 1311362556 435495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what if it was stated rather than inferred? < 1311362585 907923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then it would only be worth considering if it was not completely at odds with the evidence. < 1311362606 47833 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :random() in POSIX is said to return in the [0, 2^31-1] range. < 1311362613 95638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311362631 220002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, as it stands, ELER is scheduled to update on 21st December 2012. < 1311362632 130584 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :While rand() returns from 0 to RAND_MAX, and RAND_MAX >= 32767. < 1311362634 704360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, thanks for linking me that page about changes in 3.0 < 1311362654 240824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :setns() looks... useful for what I'm doing < 1311362662 104875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the workaround with clone() flags is working well for me so far < 1311362665 32086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lol < 1311362700 100789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I presume you are using ptrace for this? To be able to catch system calls happening < 1311362707 290772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311362719 569977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried single-step but it was too slow < 1311362728 722742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that still doesn't deal with stuff like me opening /dev/console and doing ioctls on it < 1311362736 683420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a program that does that even < 1311362739 957251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to, umm, reimplement all of /dev < 1311362750 520561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except /dev/null and /dev/zero, those were easy < 1311362758 610893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fun. ALSA is going to be very very latency sensitive :P < 1311362759 723371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the existing devices work for those < 1311362767 135428 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Add /dev/tty and you will have reimplemented everything a LSB application can use. < 1311362770 446924 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311362775 580257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: LSB? < 1311362780 172549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what, really!? < 1311362781 335554 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Standard Base. < 1311362784 573460 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311362789 728047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1311362796 19203 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, really. < 1311362798 8595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably going to make a pty and connect stdout/in/err to it < 1311362803 971557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may as well place it at /dev/tty too < 1311362811 656295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can copy ptys just by copying device numbers, right? < 1311362812 491841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what *is* /dev/null btw? < 1311362815 391132 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Vorpal < 1311362818 704748 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: EOF < 1311362824 495841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, and that isn't in LSB? < 1311362824 693857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a character special file, reads always return EOF, writes always succeed but do nothing < 1311362835 639124 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /dev/null, /dev/zero, and /dev/tty are in LSB. < 1311362837 620949 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Don't forget /dev/full. < 1311362838 38258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why on earth is /dev/full useful? < 1311362843 33101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for testing programs < 1311362846 613250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1311362852 83897 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/bull < 1311362854 61676 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That is the entire contents of the LSB /dev hierarchy. < 1311362854 775767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can redirect stdout to /dev/full, and see if they behave gracefully or stupidly < 1311362874 919459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cp /etc/passwd /dev/full < 1311362876 213641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp: writing `/dev/full': No space left on device < 1311362898 762735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a great way of checking to see if people are checking the return value of fclose() < 1311362899 638526 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... there are some devices in my /dev that would be very hard to do in user space < 1311362915 773234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it depends on if people are actually using them < 1311362919 621150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what about /dev/urandom? < 1311362926 144626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting off with an empty /dev, and implementing things in it as necessary < 1311362930 433278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, /dev/random and /dev/urandom will be easy too < 1311362935 291827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no they won't :) < 1311362946 570467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... definitely testbed :P < 1311362972 703012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of putting /dev/zero at each of them, but I'm worried some programs will go into infinite loops if their randomness sources do that < 1311362976 480941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, /dev/snapshot, /dev/vga_arbiter /dev/rtc0, /dev/sda < 1311362988 633408 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make /dev/random return this: < 1311362992 268052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course if you don't want to implement fake "running as root" it will be way easier < 1311362993 24109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/sda is easy, it's readable only by root < 1311363000 206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not faking running as root < 1311363003 268606 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (%256) [0..] < 1311363010 321697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because root can trivially escape a chroot < 1311363012 734271 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nope. < 1311363020 75330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mkdir x; chroot x; cd ..; chroot .) < 1311363026 792751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then you make a lot of system calls return EACCESS or similar < 1311363028 63648 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabottttt < 1311363031 599234 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :;a; < 1311363031 840880 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot is missing? :( < 1311363034 646547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that mechanism of escaping chroots is in there deliberate < 1311363038 990330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deliberately < 1311363043 143529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not emulating every system call < 1311363046 469170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tinkering with their params a bit < 1311363049 923571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and return values < 1311363058 492775 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Stallman didn't design the chroot syscall. < 1311363060 858171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I see... < 1311363079 893217 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you can use EgoBot, although it is a bit different, and has trouble with infinite list output (so use take to shorten it) < 1311363082 462020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also /proc/self will be fun < 1311363102 24002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, especially the very weird symlinks found in there... < 1311363103 541481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's one of the few things I have workign correctly already < 1311363114 667163 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, NOMW could be made Turing-complete (or whatever the probabilistic equivalent is) using a crossover square, I think. < 1311363115 364714 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: oh also % won't be imported by default < 1311363116 852036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'm catting things in /proc/self in order to test my program < 1311363118 206403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? symlinks to removed files in /dev/fd wortk? < 1311363120 327620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :work* < 1311363131 407790 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say that if a square is +, then a bobule can enter it, but it cannot leave by a 90-degree angle from the way it entered. < 1311363135 555334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that Linux allows you to mount multiple proc filesystems /that give different results/? < 1311363139 484605 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell take 80 $ map (Ratio.%256) [0..] < 1311363144 442872 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[0%1,1%256,1%128,3%256,1%64,5%256,3%128,7%256,1%32,9%256,5%128,11%256,3%64,13%256,7%128,15%256,1%16,17%256,9%128,19%256,5%64,21%256,11%128,23%256,3%32,25%256,13%128,27%256,7%64,29%256,15%128,31%256,1%8,33%256,17%128,35%256,9%64,37%256,19%128,39%256,5%32,41%256,21%128,43%256,11%64,45%256,23%128,47%256,3%16,49%256,25%128,51%256,13%64,53%256,27%128,55%256,7%32,57%256,29%128,59%256,15%64,61%256,31%128,63%256,1%4,65%256,33%128,67%256,17%64,69%256,35%128,71%256,9%32 < 1311363149 362006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, all that fancy namespace crap < 1311363152 116540 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1311363153 82457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm doing < 1311363154 211270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my kernel is compiled without it < 1311363161 318885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because to me, it is useless < 1311363164 804301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you won't be able to run my program then < 1311363166 791944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty useful to me < 1311363169 780346 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell take 80 $ map ((flip mod) 256) [0..] < 1311363172 118225 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boom, transistors. < 1311363172 480894 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79] < 1311363180 649609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if you tell me what your program is I might recompile the kernel :P < 1311363185 161126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311363187 947748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you can use (`mod` 256) < 1311363195 869837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those options are on by default, right? < 1311363197 347298 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311363199 468278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, have you check if plash does what you want? < 1311363203 768859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :othewrise everyone will have to recompile their kernel < 1311363211 589476 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, have you revealed what it is? < 1311363216 365987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311363219 339484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh no idea. I incrementally updated my .config over the years < 1311363225 45806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal's been guessing, and come to similar conclusions to you < 1311363244 42627 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no but he leaked enough and I'm pretty certain he is doing something like virtualisation or emulation of user space programs < 1311363255 396360 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the obvious part < 1311363263 552428 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for what purpose" is the part I guessed at < 1311363264 532376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, *probably* for some sort of controlled reproducible test bed system. < 1311363290 570780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a good description, although I don't mind you figuring out that part, because it's reasonably obvious and not the whole thing < 1311363302 931782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, since it seems he wants to emulate remote network (wrt ping) and /dev/urandom "wouldn't be easy" < 1311363307 114191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1311363310 961840 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you hate it when you try to do something awesome, then realize it's completely mathematically impossible? < 1311363311 517492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turned off networking so I wouldn't have to do that < 1311363316 83619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1311363337 650034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it doesn't happen too much < 1311363341 114257 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-102.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311363341 530586 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-102.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1311363341 728952 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311363370 817252 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: every ordinary identifier can be turned into an operator by putting `` around it, and every operator identifier can be turned into an ordinary one by putting () around it. (although you cannot iterate this) < 1311363393 527301 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311363437 782567 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you need a ghc option to do it for types < 1311363508 45294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is sad that you can't iterate it. That would allow stuff like `(* 2 +)` or such < 1311363512 553366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well not exactly that) < 1311363534 577812 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not quite iterating, although yes that might be useful < 1311363541 896226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1311363549 577414 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be an extension, right? < 1311363553 684342 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311363561 24735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but iterating it is only really useful if you can build up expressions between the iterations < 1311363564 81658 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but afaik it hasn't been implemented < 1311363578 605276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean `(`(+)`)` is utterly useless < 1311363584 59217 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311363597 233784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda seems to use _+_ rather than (+); is there any reason for the change? < 1311363609 233784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_+_ looking more mathematical, perhaps? < 1311363617 559531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(its syntax is otherwise mostly identical to Haskell's with a few extensions) < 1311363756 15587 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't that sort of part of its mixfix syntax, you can have as many _'s as you want < 1311363769 304295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that may be what it's about < 1311363771 831768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it did that < 1311363773 152515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a Haskell code be prettyprinted? < 1311363777 291529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's quite a nifty feature < 1311363780 97275 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't actually know agda
< 1311363780 295317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't see why not < 1311363785 979863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: neither do I < 1311363792 488662 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is _+_ and (+) means? < 1311363793 461109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turns out I have an Agda fanatic as a coworker < 1311363799 525368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and want to be able to at least vaguely understand what he's doing < 1311363819 738638 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: those are agda's and haskell's way of referring to the + operator as a value, respectively < 1311363839 216774 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of function type) < 1311363847 979213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, in Agda there's no + operator by default, you have to implement it by hand < 1311363853 13066 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311363858 889798 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.impredicative.com/ur/tutorial/intro.html not that far down, but so far, I think I can wrap my brain around it < 1311363885 599905 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spoke too soon, this syntax I need to slow down for < 1311363932 166517 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, compose is more understandable than id :/ < 1311363947 480028 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there is a program called hs2tex or something like that which prettyprints haskell, i believe people sometimes use it for math papers. it replaces -> and stuff with proper math symbols. < 1311363951 713961 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I do think being able to refer to operators as function value can be useful in some cases. < 1311363957 794275 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, compose has more... elaboration in its syntax, which makes it more uunderstandable by context) < 1311363964 7533 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun id [a] (x : a) : a = x < 1311363969 31004 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun id [a] (x : a) : a = x < 1311363970 885670 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311363975 206644 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun compose [a] [b] [c] (f : b -> c) (g : a -> b) (x : a) : c = f (g x) < 1311364000 85641 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also ghc has an option for allowing unicode for many things < 1311364001 246184 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Does it just put every line without > at the start directly as TeX codes? < 1311364021 563060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: actually, in Agda there's no + operator by default, you have to implement it by hand <-- not in the standard library!? < 1311364028 110950 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lines with > prettyprinted Haskell codes converted to TeX? < 1311364031 715046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you even have to implement integers by hand < 1311364036 82345 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm i would guess it uses the \begin{code} convention < 1311364042 808880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the standard library have then < 1311364045 500007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my coworker's master's project was about automatically detecting people trying to implement integers and optimising them into native integers < 1311364051 625219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311364063 505635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not make a standard library with these in? < 1311364094 207758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly there is one; I'm not too clear on the details < 1311364130 931212 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes I do think being able to refer to operators as function value can be useful in some cases. <-- it is quite frequently used < 1311364131 758547 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I suppose it can be modified to use > if you prefer that way < 1311364160 591873 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell zipWith (+) [1..10] [100, 200.. 1000] < 1311364163 192970 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[101,202,303,404,505,606,707,808,909,1010] < 1311364175 587418 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, in Haskell perhaps it is very useful although in other programming language with function values it can be useful in a few cases to be able to make such thing. < 1311364295 618545 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : fun id [a] (x : a) : a = x <-- i guess agda's type system requires that for flexible use. the a would be an implicit type parameter, i think? < 1311364309 645975 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda? < 1311364320 476435 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Ur that I pasted < 1311364323 193372 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1311364324 142154 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For proper Knuth-style literate programming, you would also have index, table of contents, named chunks, and possibly a macro preprocessor if it is useful. (As well as commands that affect how the different kind of operators and so on are treated when making the printout) < 1311364357 783269 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i thought you were still talking about agda. although my guess for what the ur means still stands. < 1311364378 151343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was never talking about Agda. Other people were talking about Agda. < 1311364392 572276 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... I _think_ that guess is correct < 1311364401 680721 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there symbols or combinations of symbols not used in Haskell? I read the documentation. Is `` (with nothing in between) invalid, for example? Others? < 1311364405 415822 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: which is why i was confused, you gave a link and i frequently don't bother to visit links < 1311364411 153584 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Then there's parametric polymorphism. Unlike in ML and Haskell, polymorphic functions in Ur/Web often require full type annotations. That is because more advanced features (which we'll get to in the next chapter) make Ur type inference undecidable." < 1311364416 554918 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i assumed you were linking to an agda tutorial < 1311364452 730827 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh it's that dependent web language that was posted on reddit? < 1311364483 727675 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a for hire ad, iirc < 1311364484 6735 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it was posted on Reddit, but "dependent web language" sounds right. Well, for Ur/Web. Ur itself is not necessarily web related < 1311364498 971984 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hiring < 1311364516 642324 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so there's a plain ur too... < 1311364528 925576 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION may not have bothered to visit that link either ;D
< 1311364529 947217 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what else I want to have is Literate LLVM, maybe I will invent that some day (I can call it LWEB maybe) < 1311364540 705028 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with file extension .llw) < 1311364557 741757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike LLVM, it makes all sorts of assumptions that are true in practice but I don't like < 1311364590 500744 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is C-- dead? < 1311364591 994804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few things I also dislike about LLVM, although I have made suggestions to correct these things. < 1311364605 739260 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:59:42: Yet Another Haskell Tutorial by some guy Hal Daume < 1311364605 937529 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1311364617 821302 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's only ever been alive in GHC, I think < 1311364618 19484 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I like to have would be constraint analysis. < 1311364630 112514 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what is that itidus20 quote < 1311364638 253275 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what he's reading < 1311364639 50793 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I even have ideas about how constraint analysis would work.) < 1311364642 743639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait this is an ancient log < 1311364643 824345 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1311364645 226397 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancient =a day < 1311364656 158108 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well if you use latex you can use its table of contents feature, i assume < 1311364669 949795 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i believe `` is a syntax error, yes. < 1311364684 327344 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: well if you use latex you can use its table of contents feature, i assume < 1311364689 204182 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't talk to zzo about latex :O < 1311364698 641669 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1311364707 562948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle have bought ksplice? < 1311364710 345380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see that one coming < 1311364716 153081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in retrospect, it's not a ridiculous thing for them to do < 1311364716 512856 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what most people using hs2tex would be doing < 1311364752 237500 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, you can use things that would be syntax error in Haskell to get out of Haskell code mode, if making a Knuth-style literate programming system for Haskell... < 1311364757 671282 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311364778 876332 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I understand enough ML to grasp this module system stuff :/ < 1311364792 723023 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i believe (almost?) every printable ascii character is either alphanumeric, a legal operator character, or used in the syntax. < 1311364795 271488 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My understanding of everything prior was fueled by my understanding of Haskell < 1311364797 314153 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in haskell) < 1311364798 865299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oracle have bought ksplice? < 1311364799 819736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1311364801 935952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ouch < 1311364845 337752 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, but some combinations can be syntax errors, which is why you can use those combinations for such things. < 1311364865 824858 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is `` the only one such or is other combinations possible that can do that? < 1311364867 738079 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and mostly everything which does not combine into an operator or an identifier (which might be a keyword in either case) will split < 1311364882 344281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most characters are legal inside strings < 1311364890 71150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose """ may be a combination that isn't legal in any context at all but comments < 1311364898 533621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do Haskell comments work again? < 1311364917 968362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or can you write a "string1""string2" in Haskell?) < 1311364923 691173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (++) "a""b" < 1311364928 621469 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: '' is also illegal at the start of a token i think, since ' needs to be escaped inside character classes. and also anything with ' ...more than one character representation... ' < 1311364935 676581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@eval (++) "a""b" < 1311364939 377082 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*character literals < 1311364968 717212 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside strings, you can get errors due to nonexisting escapes < 1311364976 663061 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "\fnord" < 1311364978 954876 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"\fnord" < 1311364981 708683 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311364982 410603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, could do that as an extension. Overloaded Character literals or something < 1311364989 95357 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait \f _is_ an escape < 1311365000 360508 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "\possibly not fnord" < 1311365013 108007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it probably drops errors < 1311365014 222349 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gave an error < 1311365019 919877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does for me anyway < 1311365022 605414 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it sends them in DCC < 1311365029 20768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah.. DCC is broken for me < 1311365035 961430 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so if I understand this correctly, kinds are ... bigger in Ur than in Haskell, in that they encompass more than just types < 1311365045 360607 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinds are the "types" of more than types < 1311365115 578268 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, derp, I misunderstood what it meant by "type families", so now that bit's clearer. What I said just before is still true though < 1311365127 162783 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't know. < 1311365190 878716 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: mind you '' is still legal inside other identifiers, because of haskell's decision to support the common mathematical x', x'' naming < 1311365215 479568 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I think I'm getting this < 1311365248 121003 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the document it seems the "\&" is good, some C document says only 2 hex digits after \x but I have had it allow any number of "\x000000000000000" is still a single character, for example. So, if it had "\&" like Haskell then you can avoid that. Maybe I can make a next version of Enhanced CWEB to support such things and convert it to work with a C compiler. < 1311365288 257330 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ,+ is another sequence which i don't think is legal, because most operators cannot begin an unparenthesized expression < 1311365317 145309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(, being a delimiter and so not part of an operator) < 1311365352 431914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it would be legal in a haskell comment < 1311365386 989429 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and in strings, but there would be a parser to check for these things which needs to do so anyways for prettyprinting and indexing. < 1311365435 458007 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I dislike LLVM, it makes all sorts of assumptions that are true in practice but I don't like <-- well if you're big enough you can probably get a patch in to add options, like the ghc people did < 1311365448 675247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's more its fundamental design < 1311365454 321503 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what sort of things does it assume? < 1311365467 713565 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some things can be done using LLVM metadata? < 1311365480 567853 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:49:55: I think Perl was the earliest language in the C family to have map and filter operators. < 1311365480 845804 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO C family < 1311365484 677244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that all its commands can be implemented via native-code commands that have the same semantics as one of its operators < 1311365493 99663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is C family? < 1311365495 286647 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, have a metadata to tell it what thing not to assume, maybe < 1311365497 418626 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to CakeProphet < 1311365499 752577 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's Awk family. < 1311365509 622117 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can be said to have a family at all. < 1311365532 208107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh they probably can. Using something like libgcc in worst case < 1311365540 484799 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh dear <-- you think YAHT is too obsolete? i already advised him that he should get the haskell platform instead of hugs if he was serious (he said, hypocritically >:) ) < 1311365545 711951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a false assumption for BF < 1311365567 394511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Ah, what in specific can you not implement by emulation? < 1311365572 839561 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, I told him about LYAH later I think < 1311365581 974839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc tries not to make that assumption; it doesn't actually /work/, but that's due to bugs not design issues < 1311365583 819949 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and I saw that at the time, that's what made me realise it was an old conversation < 1311365585 378991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... Haskell's more C family than Perl. < 1311365592 161890 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Haskell allows for direct memory access. < 1311365594 316126 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, er, no. < 1311365597 452940 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1311365600 424730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, BF requires a temporary to do the equivalent of MOV from x86 < 1311365607 640950 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, C doesn't. Just common implementations do. < 1311365613 220390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc has actually taken that possibility into account; LLVM hasn't < 1311365627 791277 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I realise that Haskell isn't very C-like. Neither is Perl. < 1311365644 998679 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311365648 511986 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1311365648 878458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl also allows for direct memory access, I think, somehow < 1311365653 224046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay, but surely that could be done in the code gen by having every other cell be a temporary? < 1311365653 501705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a really obscure method involving libraries < 1311365663 682460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it *is* Perl. < 1311365666 198317 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has everything. < 1311365668 4805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gcc-bf reserves a temporary for that < 1311365688 134324 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1311365688 828979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1311365694 652721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's ugly having to do most of the code generation in ld < 1311365695 209178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it can be done then in bf < 1311365702 990551 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (or can you write a "string1""string2" in Haskell?) <-- yes < 1311365704 103250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have the compiler do it < 1311365704 301763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it isn't fundamentally impossible < 1311365723 77821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf I mostly gave up on when it came to implementing rightshifts and multiplication < 1311365726 586325 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "a""b" < 1311365728 586080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much effort < 1311365730 874086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1311365740 829390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I've been getting no reply from lambdabot trying that < 1311365748 538392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the users lists, I suspect it's because lambdabot isn't here < 1311365751 350568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311365753 113424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than because it barfs on it, though < 1311365766 809930 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311365767 7551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "a""b" < 1311365767 8691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on Freenode, in fact < 1311365772 914053 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: won't work < 1311365779 893410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell print "oh""no" < 1311365782 236025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311365783 70684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStr ((++) "a""b") < 1311365785 316695 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab < 1311365791 740565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win, I think < 1311365794 470907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311365794 749309 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest in peace lambdabot???? < 1311365801 275207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it'll probably be back later < 1311365808 995577 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nap in peace < 1311365810 9403 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest in pace;sdgfh < 1311365817 198646 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace < 1311365820 887280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I wonder why pthread_cancel is defined as a weak symbol in my libgcc < 1311365821 397644 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :528) rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace < 1311365834 171746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with a few more pthread functions < 1311365843 238626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure, I don't think I'm going to get pthreads workign < 1311365844 771106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*working < 1311365852 276100 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:22:39: it's because python is descriptive rather than declarative < 1311365852 554310 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:22:51: or rather prescriptive < 1311365852 752074 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:23:40: well, i think "imperative" does not focus on the important aspect of the difference between so called "imperative" languages and so called "functional" langauges < 1311365852 752249 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this log is unbearably bad < 1311365856 666223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not if the threads use futexes, which they probably will < 1311365865 175859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they do too much in userspace < 1311365870 812540 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: *wince* < 1311365872 989156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe some other libgcc function depends on pthread calls iff pthread is loaded? < 1311365875 599020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: wait what? < 1311365882 712731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out if that's wrong or meaningless < 1311365884 81048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and just stubs it out if it doesn't need to care about threads? < 1311365889 92726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or correct but pointless, like a tautology < 1311365893 864023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps < 1311365895 752576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe errno < 1311365900 763207 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that applies to most things cheater_ says < 1311365910 626237 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:23:59: i mean you can perfectly well say that python is an imperative, functional language < 1311365916 440876 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool story, tell me more < 1311365924 732968 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:24:25: functional means a function is a first class object < 1311365924 931488 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1311365942 834249 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying < 1311365945 419843 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:26:07: "functional" is a very flimsy description of haskell, erlang, ocaml and lisp < 1311365945 618676 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :common lisp is not a functional language. nor is scheme. < 1311365951 591018 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the others are. well, maybe not erlang. < 1311365953 790153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, possibly some functions like __register_frame_info_table_bases or __emutls_register_common that are in there < 1311365963 237982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :__enable_execute_stack? What? Come on < 1311365975 42860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some unwind functions there too < 1311365977 116909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a lot of ideas of how constraint analysis could work in LLVM. There can be forward constraints, and in some cases (such as reaching "unreachable") backward constraints, and then constranits based on trap values (such as "add nuw"), etc < 1311365985 443435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, any idea what _newselect(2) is for? < 1311365991 504886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't documented, and it isn't implemented either AFAICT < 1311366006 789495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even as a redirect to _ni_syscall like the other unimplemented syscalls < 1311366016 579331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could try calling it to see what error I got, but that feels messy < 1311366019 551853 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where is it even mentioned it? < 1311366024 589471 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B133F30.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311366032 811673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in the kernel headers that specify syscall numbers < 1311366033 193001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it\?/it/ < 1311366037 98868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311366048 514077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the number doesn't seem to clash with any others < 1311366050 794603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it a low or high number? < 1311366054 57147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediumish < 1311366056 744523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311366064 34416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be some abandoned thing < 1311366071 199808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the leading underscore confuses me too < 1311366073 85428 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else I would like in LLVM is if you can tell it to store constant values in code space if possible (in the alignment padding, or in case it exactly matches an instruction), and store variables in the immediate operands to instructions if possible, etc < 1311366075 613715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :syscall names normally don't start with one of those < 1311366080 441106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abandoned thing is my guess too < 1311366134 328736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, greping kernel sources reveals #define __NR__newselect in lots of arch/*/include/asm/unistd.h plus this line: < 1311366137 841052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :./scripts/checksyscalls.sh:#define __IGNORE__newselect < 1311366152 788374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed, I did that too < 1311366153 66671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :./arch/blackfin/include/asm/unistd.h: /* 142 __NR__newselect obsolete */ < 1311366153 706160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311366157 814425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1311366165 129092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm/unistd.h is the file responsible for syscall numbers (in the various arches) < 1311366167 180788 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1311366175 443713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I find this quite amusing: ./arch/mips/include/asm/unistd.h:#define __NR__newselect (__NR_Linux + 142) < 1311366178 507378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checksyscalls.sh checks to see that every syscall is implemented on every arch, minus the ones defined as ignored < 1311366179 875139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :__NR_Linux? < 1311366194 859882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe it's trying to avoid a number clash with some other OS < 1311366204 618702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_Linux 4000 < 1311366211 542291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Linux o32 style syscalls are in the range from 4000 to 4999. < 1311366230 397768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311366235 476039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a huge #ifdef here < 1311366240 614330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Linux 64-bit syscalls are in the range from 5000 to 5999. < 1311366240 812316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1311366240 812524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_Linux 5000 < 1311366242 981773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :further down < 1311366251 105294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the entire define list AGAIN < 1311366262 468756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell do they repeat the lines like: < 1311366264 938266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_read (__NR_Linux + 0) < 1311366273 312262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1311366277 965465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is different for different modes < 1311366279 431512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_syscall (__NR_Linux + 0) < 1311366281 895605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for another one < 1311366293 686402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 and x64 have different syscall numbers < 1311366303 270022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one syscall (mmap2) actually takes different parameters on the two architectures < 1311366307 246880 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything about constraint analysis? < 1311366307 525005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why on earth? < 1311366313 157973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Linux N32 syscalls are in the range from 6000 to 6999. < 1311366313 356356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1311366313 356586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_Linux 6000 < 1311366321 720702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, mmap2 is designed for 32-bit systems to open files larger than 32 bits < 1311366326 523625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311366332 720509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ditto for 64 bits, but they changed the scaling factor < 1311366332 955145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it isn't needed on 64-bit then < 1311366339 16960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err what < 1311366349 802023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap2 is like mmap but you specify the offset in units of 4K < 1311366354 848170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4KiB, that is) < 1311366361 339520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean larger than 64 bits on x86-64? < 1311366369 189181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on 64-bit, you specify the offsets in units of the page size < 1311366370 591617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think so < 1311366375 224847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might not be 4KiB exactly < 1311366389 69668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err x86/x86-64 page size *is* 4KiB < 1311366404 108380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that makes the man page look a bit weird < 1311366418 63396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unless you mean huge-pages, but they are the exception, not the nrom < 1311366418 261565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps they're allowing for a potential future change in page size, but think it'll only happen on 64-bit platforms not 32-bit platforms < 1311366419 744937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :norm* < 1311366432 801395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, allows you to create specially crafted 1 MB or larger pages < 1311366441 129743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably about that, then < 1311366441 547189 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : common lisp is not a functional language. nor is scheme. <-- i think that's a rather big shift from the historical use of the phrase. like refusing to call neanderthals humans. < 1311366460 751106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it can't be... because that is decided on by a per-page basis < 1311366470 66644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so that doesn't make any sense here < 1311366498 437055 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, Scheme probably counts < 1311366503 740129 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But Common Lisp is unquestionably non-functional < 1311366505 146652 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask any Lisper < 1311366510 601512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to define functional languages well < 1311366526 285759 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Higher-order functions are rare in Common Lisp outside of things like map < 1311366535 251446 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those are usually done with LOOP or ITERATE, even < 1311366541 693934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my working definition of non-imperative is languages in which assignment to mutable variables is nonidiomatic < 1311366555 304631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in common Lisp, setq is fairly common, isn't it? < 1311366557 873366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ getconf PAGESIZE < 1311366561 146855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :4096 < 1311366567 517539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's 4096 on my system too < 1311366576 626533 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: setf is common, steq isn't < 1311366578 438067 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :setq < 1311366581 867096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any x86 system will give that. Same for x86-64 < 1311366586 601698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does setf do? < 1311366593 202508 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:41:56: i would say, map paintRed fence = "a fence which is red" < 1311366593 880193 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:42:09: you would say map paintRed fence = "a fence which has been painted red" < 1311366599 126151 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the stupidest thing ever omg shut up you idiot < 1311366617 862856 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (let ((x (cons 9 0))) (setf (car x) 0) x) ==> (0 . 0) < 1311366619 914967 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what < 1311366621 38854 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1311366623 180131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'd interpret "map paintRed fence" as "what results when every component of a fence is painted red" < 1311366624 936821 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's setq that can set forms with defined setters, too < 1311366639 373932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK, a generalised version < 1311366640 624731 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doubles as a raw variable setter and a structure mutator < 1311366649 543306 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's generally referred to as generalised setq < 1311366652 674080 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the f is for Form < 1311366654 954557 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :setq is set quote < 1311366658 250708 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it used to be (set 'var x) < 1311366665 593564 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when lisps were dynamically scoped and also crap < 1311366673 416659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in C++, setq corresponds to memcpy(&a, &b, sizeof b) and setf corresponds to a=b? < 1311366713 848880 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sure, although it's more like a=b where a must be a variable name < 1311366718 710764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That memcpy can also write to structure members < 1311366750 258804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ getconf -a | grep PAGE < 1311366750 494898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAGESIZE 4096 < 1311366750 495092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAGE_SIZE 4096 < 1311366751 935869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1311366791 40278 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAGES_I_ZE < 1311366809 803249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, alas, they forgot that one < 1311366862 693517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, isn't it possible to overload & in C++? < 1311366865 519785 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oesrijgreoijg < 1311366883 206721 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: memcpy(&a + offsetof(foo, b), &b + offsetof(foo, b), sizeof(b.foo)); ? < 1311366886 279515 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1311366889 454535 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also *. < 1311366894 420748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about sizeof? < 1311366895 241991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And cast to void*. < 1311366899 399228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :overloading unary * makes more sense < 1311366903 827474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not -> though afaik < 1311366906 715502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe < 1311366907 380870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311366925 52368 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> is overloadable, IIRC. < 1311366927 207121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it either -> or . you can't overload? < 1311366933 494977 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[...] demos that intentionally use incorrect style because it's easier to present in a short demo [...] < 1311366933 693489 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one" < 1311366933 912760 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the "." is not, and neither is the ternary operator. < 1311366935 423224 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or sizeof. < 1311366940 960943 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hidsa/opa_one_language_for_all_the_stack_forget/ < 1311366957 694259 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator-> is overloadable. < 1311366958 143783 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the :: namespace thing, and the ".*" pointer-to-member mess. < 1311366964 358613 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ->* < 1311366970 410855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does .* actually do? < 1311366998 930398 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OPA is similar to Ur/Web < 1311367005 535112 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's possible to overload *every cast* in C++. < 1311367007 822782 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with more marketing, and unfortunately less typing < 1311367008 71453 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's used when invoking a pointer-to-member-function. < 1311367012 349102 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"also, not to be an ass, but generally speaking and talking about UR (that you mentioned), i don't really trust a web framework with such a raw site." lol < 1311367019 149828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish webtards would stop finding Ur < 1311367040 546614 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ur any good should i learn it < 1311367052 444084 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, is that a Opa person who said that or a random person? < 1311367066 704251 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is opa any good should i learn it < 1311367078 430696 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a random person < 1311367083 583468 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ur is good < 1311367090 207009 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol, Ur's site has now been updated < 1311367091 430007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you can't overload casts *between* built in types though < 1311367094 324441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even with friend < 1311367098 589597 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll learn ur < 1311367119 225982 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Foo foo; void (Foo::*)(int) bar = &Foo::baz; foo.*bar(42);" is basically "Foo foo; foo.baz(42);" except messier. < 1311367143 691391 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ sucks so badly < 1311367144 502534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1311367156 973231 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Shhh, C++ is good because of C++ sudoku < 1311367162 512316 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1311367197 70494 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it's where you try to accomplish some usually-functional-programming-related task in C++0x < 1311367207 699335 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great, it's the best game, I play it regularly < 1311367220 865492 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance: maybe in C++ seems easy, but you _cannot_ do it with just a pointer to T < 1311367225 571401 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that forbids T from being a reference type < 1311367237 333422 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to end up taking advantage of everything being convertible to a bunch of chars and back < 1311367329 215485 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ingenious < 1311367473 533599 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:59:05: trying to assign cosmical properties to mathematical objects is called physics < 1311367478 231315 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1311367479 57589 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking < 1311367479 828545 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the past < 1311367548 493300 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt that backwards wow is cheater_ serious in the past < 1311367549 8951 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, only if you promise never to get born < 1311367559 35393 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_ are you serious in the past < 1311367565 880639 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, totally srs < 1311367572 62071 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1311367576 801920 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: fuck off < 1311367593 46741 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, are you trying to annoy me or arouse me? < 1311367606 554452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering whether to logread to see if elliott_'s cheater quotes are real or fake quotes designed to make him look stupid < 1311367623 825167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: are you trying to be a boring, egotistic shitheadeaded idiot or does it come without effort < 1311367625 976905 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no they're real quotes that are designed to make me look stupid < 1311367626 811171 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: real < 1311367639 358627 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shitheadeaded" im good with words < 1311367654 735419 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it comes naturally < 1311367655 886460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing a d at the end < 1311367668 42377 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shitheadeadedison < 1311367686 397958 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ how long does this log go on for < 1311367700 374447 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR < 1311367701 486889 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:42:24: in C you'd say to get a maserati GT you'd take a ferrari 430, you'd then change the body work, and then you'd furnish it with a nice interior < 1311367701 685273 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:43:13: in haskell, you'd say a maserati gt is a ferrari 430 - bodywork - interior + new body work + new interior < 1311367701 685372 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is literally the worst car analogy i've ever read < 1311367701 685415 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOLE < 1311367702 642508 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIFE. < 1311367712 271890 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how long this log goes on for. < 1311367722 916419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that isn't quite as stupid as some of the tohers < 1311367726 641251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*others < 1311367730 300320 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the others aren't car analogies < 1311367731 374110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly that isn't difficult < 1311367750 25136 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, i'm glad, i really like car analogies, it's great to reach something outstanding < 1311367751 831828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider car analogies inherently stupid, incidentally < 1311367779 77744 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, monads are like cars < 1311367784 853801 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what isnt stupid about car analogies < 1311367797 246587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most car analogies don't compare things to cars in general < 1311367803 579090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but specific parts of cars or models of car < 1311367807 43315 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, elliott_ is smart about everything.. so i'd say elliott < 1311367825 374418 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_ is like a car analogy? < 1311367840 837018 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, i think he's like a bad car analogy < 1311367877 167749 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, i'd say elliott :: humans == maserati gt analogy :: car analogies < 1311367973 282426 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is he really trying to deconvert a cultist of zepto < 1311368023 140282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: oh, disaster: sg(1) is an actual command, so we can't call scapegoat that < 1311368035 722368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the group equivalent of sg(1) < 1311368040 819965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of su(1) < 1311368046 922005 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how have I never tried to run sg before? < 1311368059 925093 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we could lobby for sg to be renamed :-P < 1311368062 78456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it isn't very useful except on a very large system < 1311368063 998277 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it car anaology analogies are unzepto < 1311368066 24867 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just assume the truth, that nobody uses it < 1311368071 998185 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no but I mean, when talking about scapegoat < 1311368078 299938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is redundant to newgrp anyway < 1311368082 578504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah, I see < 1311368097 261183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why do sg and newgrp both exist? < 1311368107 473440 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1311368111 322498 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see, we can totally call it sg, it'll be our campaign against redundancy < 1311368125 394496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, sg lets you execute a command, but newgrp doesn't < 1311368126 463918 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that, mathematically, something can't work, but I can't figure out what's wrong with my idea of how to do it < 1311368127 546784 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sg is redundant < 1311368131 114851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg appears to have a better name and slightly more options < 1311368131 313305 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the shell does that job with newgrp < 1311368137 829788 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see the flaw that I know must be there < 1311368139 941213 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes but we deserve that name more >:| < 1311368142 959738 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, back to reading about 12DL8 < 1311368144 884248 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sigh what is it < 1311368155 741173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who do I complain to about design flaws in UNIX? < 1311368165 633294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, actually, I'm currently rethinking it in terms of something simpler < 1311368182 214234 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wish I knew < 1311368189 786949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, sg has an amateurish manpage < 1311368193 291865 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd have a nice cup of tea and a sit down with them < 1311368194 568754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like it's trying to justify its existence < 1311368196 98131 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And talk for about three days < 1311368208 127929 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :User Commands 02/14/2011 SG(1) < 1311368209 530852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which is specified by POSIX? < 1311368220 176014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also contains typos, like "doesnt" < 1311368292 268114 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derp, that was obvious < 1311368390 853474 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought maybe you could enumerate through all uncountably infinite states of an infinite 2d binary grid by starting at one point, on and off, then expanding it, etc. I finally realized that those are counting through finite pieces of the grid, not the actual infinite grid < 1311368397 570474 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can be slow sometimes
< 1311368413 617622 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1311368452 171400 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I had to rephrase that in terms of 1d before I got it :( < 1311368491 104762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you trying to count? the polyset of R**2? < 1311368494 979159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*powerset < 1311368499 809541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if polyset is even a real word < 1311368529 502150 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fairness, the motivating thoughtss were in terms of Game of Life, where even on an infinite grid, any particular finite subgrid, at any particular finite time, could only have been influenced by a finite area around it < 1311368602 307198 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't do struct foo = ((struct foo){...}) in C99, right? < 1311368606 664671 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be struct foo = {...} < 1311368608 54380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a countable number of black/white colored 2D grids that have only finitely many black squares, I think < 1311368615 464644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think you can, actually < 1311368622 301720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can put any expression you like as an initializer < 1311368637 702130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the difference between putting a struct initializer there and a struct constant there, but I think they're both legal < 1311368652 843493 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ISTR it not working, but -- oh, I rememberw hat was wrong < 1311368655 239819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo = {} is almost certainly more efficient, though < 1311368657 161208 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do < 1311368658 730785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or equal < 1311368662 697262 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo = {a,b,{c,d}} < 1311368664 76167 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't do < 1311368668 984652 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo = {a,b,(struct bar){c,d}) < 1311368670 973699 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo = {a,b,(struct bar){c,d}} < 1311368671 790663 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311368672 392856 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1311368672 590746 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1311368672 950005 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for whatever reason < 1311368679 423797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because semantically, ((struct foo){...}) should make a new struct then copy < 1311368687 130044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the reason there is that it doesn't know what type the outside struct should be < 1311368720 926819 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, howso? < 1311368737 586003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because C isn't like Perl, context comes from the inside not the outside < 1311368747 182691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sees type var = expression, not type var = initializer < 1311368751 457989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then doesn't know what type the expression is < 1311368756 84040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the expression itself < 1311368868 812814 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, it should be perfectly possible to make a viewer that lets you view finite pieces of a infinite GoL soup (given unbounded disk space) < 1311368871 977552 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:40:05: pikhq_, hm. what is the difference between POSIX and Unix exactly? The SuS I guess? But I haven't seen that for ages < 1311368874 783774 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SuS requires XSI < 1311368876 668981 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX doesn't < 1311368880 674559 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1311368889 880205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that's all!? < 1311368890 297427 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not efficiently, but that's not the same as impossible < 1311368898 133655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's XSI? < 1311368900 661949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, XSI isn't really that big < 1311368902 50797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a binary standard? < 1311368919 686892 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, just a handful of extra things. < 1311368920 950803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, last I checked strdup was XSI but not POSIX < 1311368923 619532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1311368924 879125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1311368933 756188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much everything does strdup even if it isn't standard, though < 1311368937 195779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been known to actually use it < 1311368951 767848 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure even Win32 C environments have it. < 1311368952 852398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote pretty much everything does strdup even if it isn't standard, though I've been known to actually use it < 1311368953 547842 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311368953 965497 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :529) pretty much everything does strdup even if it isn't standard, though I've been known to actually use it < 1311368965 735464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if I've ever used alloca < 1311368997 935486 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: follow the standard < 1311368999 787763 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, in recent POSIX it's actually base, not XSI. < 1311369004 538774 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how was that funny < 1311369006 772556 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :strdup is still useful function, but they don't have memdup. < 1311369008 165597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311369039 401271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you ever written a program in which memdup would be useful? < 1311369054 565567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find even memcpy, memset, etc, I don't use very often (although I use them occasionally) < 1311369054 763702 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you want to look at a 5x5 piece at generation 20 < 1311369056 680135 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually, memdup could be useful with a somewhat smart libc. < 1311369065 450266 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do not remember. < 1311369065 749851 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Namely, one that manages to get the kernel to COW it. < 1311369067 679038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what for? < 1311369070 339781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1311369083 156329 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, just randomly generate that pieces, as well as 20 cells surrounding it at all sides, and evolve it < 1311369085 440621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would only really work for entire pages < 1311369093 991045 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Store what you use somewhere) < 1311369110 182262 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never used alloca in C, although if I write a program in LLVM, I might use it sometimes (LLVM optimizers can change alloca to SSA in some cases) < 1311369112 590112 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 5x5 piece is correct, even if the 20 cells surrounding it aren't < 1311369122 60747 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:45:02: Damn < 1311369122 263535 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:45:10: Just wrote =+ 1 instead of += 1 < 1311369124 447471 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ritchie? Is that you? < 1311369148 640597 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason you couldn't check to see if the memory block in question is wholy contained on pages. < 1311369152 714501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alloca does have genuine use-cases, I sort-of wish it was standard < 1311369155 214448 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46:42: It's also LSB. < 1311369155 492575 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46:54: Along with /dev/tty, and *nothing else*. < 1311369157 813005 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/null isn't LSB? < 1311369158 515140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*were < 1311369169 189698 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: /dev/null is as well. < 1311369169 745073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it is. /dev/null is even POSIX < 1311369173 27401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: We went over this. < 1311369181 867097 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever decided to make =+ to add instead of += made a stupid mistake on the day that they did so. < 1311369182 65892 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: OK :P < 1311369186 269871 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just use recursion to do alloca < 1311369203 590294 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's less useful with variable arrays, though. < 1311369203 788561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: heh, that could get a bit messy < 1311369204 700208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, that has a lot of overhead < 1311369213 245941 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even smart people make a stupid mistake sometimes... but that is how you can learn from it, too.) < 1311369213 626035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and might insert things in the middle < 1311369214 43245 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, incidentally, are no longer guaranteed in C. < 1311369222 169276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it would work for linked lists I guess < 1311369228 577961 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I just being boring? < 1311369259 209802 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :always < 1311369278 203962 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:54:02: ais523, I believe there is an x11-framebuffer server too < 1311369285 224153 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xfbdev from XDrive, now standard Xorg < 1311369285 422220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: which version did they remove them in? < 1311369289 591352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: thanks < 1311369296 666309 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable arrays? < 1311369301 678457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311369313 495139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least Wesnoth was a little buggy running in framebuffer, though; it was leaving cursor droppings < 1311369316 639037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: presumably VLAs < 1311369343 245556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : at least Wesnoth was a little buggy running in framebuffer, though; it was leaving cursor droppings <-- that was not Xfbdev I think < 1311369347 880510 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why is qemu not suitable for your purpose, btw? < 1311369352 419869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it wasn't, it was SDL < 1311369354 13917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rather it was probably SDL's fbcon backend < 1311369354 212307 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could give you a controlled environment < 1311369355 848655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1311369359 756546 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: C1X has variable length arrays as an optional feature, not mandatory. < 1311369360 451995 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is most levels of indirection you have used? < 1311369365 402792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C pointers? < 1311369366 752236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that would give too much away < 1311369370 626416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just say I tried < 1311369384 569547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hate you so much < 1311369391 367976 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This because some implementors really struggled with it, and even refused to actually implement it. < 1311369394 45741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how are we supposed to guess before you tell us unless you give us more hints? < 1311369400 273217 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ais523, how are we supposed to guess before you tell us unless you give us more hints? < 1311369401 457324 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :530) ais523, how are we supposed to guess before you tell us unless you give us more hints? < 1311369405 436855 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most obviously, Microsoft. < 1311369408 224220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you aren't < 1311369409 75218 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 529 < 1311369410 297258 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1311369413 10689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, damn < 1311369415 505900 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap an unfunny quote for a funny one < 1311369417 138517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one was 529? < 1311369419 816205 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B133F30.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330] < 1311369423 799277 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you saying you used strdup < 1311369425 729060 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's actually a decent chance that Microsoft will implement C1X, though. < 1311369425 927051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311369429 848317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, that isn't too funny < 1311369438 247055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why was that one unfunny. < 1311369446 740402 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with the *mandatory* features being not that much on top of what they'll need for C++0x. < 1311369447 930373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft not implementing C99 will marginalise them in the communities that care about C99 < 1311369448 903173 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems some of the features of C1X that are made optional are some features of C99 that I don't like. Is that partially it? < 1311369450 573226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was still somewhat funny < 1311369450 932567 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it didn't have any comedic elements < 1311369456 215208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, umm, people looking for a FORTRAN replacement, mostly < 1311369463 262927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it had one, which wasn't very good < 1311369472 728556 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What features of C1X are not optional features? < 1311369480 696704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was implying that I only used library functions which had passed some sort of Ais523 Approval Test^TM < 1311369484 971922 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: presumably quite a lot < 1311369488 146959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I imagine things like addition < 1311369491 790863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, it did. It would be like ais523 torrenting something almost < 1311369493 327294 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: functions, perhaps? < 1311369507 939056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what, using strdup? < 1311369511 105838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1311369511 304390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, addition, functions, etc. I mean any C99 features and new features < 1311369523 503357 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:08:18: what /is/ the plan 9 protocol exactly? < 1311369523 701532 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :9P < 1311369524 554912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% OF USES OF STRDUP ARE ILLEGAL! < 1311369524 777530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would you torrent using strdup < 1311369530 628509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, *aha* < 1311369530 906274 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not things such as addition and function < 1311369531 602023 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Unicode, anonymous structs and unions, alignment specification, type-generic expressions. < 1311369540 880914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you misparsed my sentence < 1311369544 166589 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote 99% OF USES OF STRDUP ARE ILLEGAL! < 1311369545 383796 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :530) 99% OF USES OF STRDUP ARE ILLEGAL! < 1311369547 159782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh.... right < 1311369554 59022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, now that one wasn't very funny :P < 1311369554 946060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to guess at what "it" in your sentence referred to < 1311369565 372250 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: So, in large part features most compilers already *have*. < 1311369571 443405 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anonymous structs and unions are useful I have used it a lot. < 1311369572 370333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the quote < 1311369582 128189 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was ais acting very out of character, when taken out of context < 1311369584 847449 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's also absurd < 1311369588 745376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yes < 1311369591 717159 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the flag of Hawaii still has a Union Jack on it for some reason. < 1311369593 258596 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, therefore, quotable < 1311369595 940841 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for reasons other than humour < 1311369597 573230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's only funny out of context < 1311369597 990831 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and static assertions. < 1311369602 771983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but agreed < 1311369607 476507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, yeah mine was quotable too < 1311369607 682418 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gone is gets. < 1311369612 340956 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, shut up < 1311369616 598868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the allcaps are a giveaway that it was meant to be in a context < 1311369617 816313 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/MthxxLrd < 1311369618 94954 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never win quote wars, stop trying < 1311369620 857862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, for stylistic reasons < 1311369627 390837 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're like asiekierka trying to set the topic to something idiotic < 1311369630 119881 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :this hack is quite nice < 1311369632 293240 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :cto < 1311369633 62980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no I don't do that < 1311369633 758551 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, would you just shut up OK. < 1311369634 454163 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it's not going to work < 1311369642 740729 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are 99% uses of strdup which are illegal? < 1311369651 179353 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never have you added a disputed quote that was even vaguely amusing. < 1311369653 355433 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: strdup can be used to transfer illegal material across the internet < 1311369658 584319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: who does "you" refer to there? < 1311369665 267105 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: {asiekierka,Vorpal} < 1311369670 291646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1311369710 806534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sufficiently advanced operating system probably could do network access with strdup < 1311369716 823074 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think 99% uses of strdup necessarily has anything to do with internet at all < 1311369732 538952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you've pretty much completely missed the context < 1311369736 167796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would take too long to explain < 1311369742 365384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1311369763 379325 :confab!180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311369772 561064 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :confabulations < 1311369777 157295 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's a word??? < 1311369789 324991 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/MthxxLrd http://pastebin.com/MthxxLrd http://pastebin.com/MthxxLrd < 1311369790 105926 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it is. < 1311369791 399883 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it successfully confabulated you < 1311369804 32217 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :with zzo < 1311369906 960082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many people here know of the sendfile(2) system call? < 1311369909 127377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks really interesting < 1311369918 142852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wonder if cp is implemented in terms of it < 1311369927 586847 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not GNU cp, at least. < 1311369938 294847 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It implements a complex buffering scheme on top of stdio. < 1311369941 640771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity it's nonportable (it's in the category of "widely implemented but not with the same semantics on every platform", like ptrace) < 1311369948 889694 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : how many people here know of the sendfile(2) system call? < 1311369949 499886 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone < 1311369954 593656 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's used in every web server ever < 1311369971 861503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1311369997 888736 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and < 1311369998 86895 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Presently (Linux 2.6.9): in_fd, must correspond to a file which supports < 1311369998 284966 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mmap(2)-like operations (i.e., it cannot be a socket); and out_fd must refer < 1311369998 285143 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : to a socket. < 1311370002 286123 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you can't do cp or anything with it < 1311370007 902782 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really stupid restriction, though < 1311370008 252754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's ridiculous < 1311370034 462656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that bit < 1311370063 622277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's all rage at stupid restrictions on sendfile for a bit < 1311370113 620259 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it probably exploits some property of sockets < 1311370118 395750 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously uses memory mapping to read from the FD < 1311370130 392454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, thus the "must be mmapable" restriction < 1311370145 364564 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it would avoid buffer copying and syscall overhead, I suppose, even without those restrictions < 1311370159 814416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I bet the kernel would be faster at copying one fd to another than userspace would < 1311370162 478509 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have I raved yet today about how syscalls are the cost of a CALL instruction in @? < 1311370172 824224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: not while I've been in here < 1311370189 612945 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: woo rave rave rave < 1311370193 35868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the benefit of using CALL over using INT? < 1311370200 882551 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: much faster < 1311370204 466123 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :syscalls are really expensive < 1311370206 213747 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :function calls arent < 1311370207 509679 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t < 1311370220 202990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically @ has no syscalls, you just get passed functions that happen to access hardware in a privileged manner < 1311370224 456849 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is that it has no syscall overhead < 1311370227 166158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: are they expensive because they use INT? or for some other reason? < 1311370234 370620 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a context switch. < 1311370237 961851 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because interrupts are slow, I think, and because you have to copy data < 1311370239 289055 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what pikhq_ said < 1311370243 804773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you probably mean is, "system calls don't need context switches" < 1311370249 820269 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311370250 113323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a better thing to rave about < 1311370254 581033 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To do a context switch, you have to flush the pipeline and the page table. < 1311370257 542445 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm no OS guy, unfortunately; not yet < 1311370270 222150 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, hence, the cache. < 1311370275 4221 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, a _lot_ of Synthesis' speed improvements came from optimising the kernel<->user space transition < 1311370279 785254 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT NOT AS MUCH AS @ DOES < 1311370287 625573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* The whole purpose of this file is for GDB and GDB only. Don't read too much into it. Don't use it for anything other than GDB unless you know what you are doing. */ < 1311370300 28695 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do those warnings ever stop anyone? < 1311370307 297393 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311370319 112141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've all but given up on access restrictions of any kind in programming, because nobody ever cares about them < 1311370320 918575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: they didn't stop me, although they did vaguely make me want to look at GDB source as that's the only place I was going to get decent documentation < 1311370332 384444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, I looked at various other sources, including the kernel's < 1311370334 141957 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some are necessary for security (<-- @ view of things showing through) < 1311370359 869686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it really means is "we don't think anything important but gdb is going to use this code, so we aren't going to bother to document it" < 1311370365 636230 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you don't want any old code getting the "cast a bunch of bytes into an arbitrary type" function < 1311370373 901387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was a pain to work out what it did, as a result < 1311370377 556404 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you could construct a safe pointer-accessor object pointing to some privileged code < 1311370379 330554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a really really system-specific file, anyway < 1311370383 443890 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cast it to a pointer-accessor < 1311370392 320819 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it to get a hold of e.g. the send byte to port function < 1311370403 540683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that sounds a bit like Java's security model < 1311370414 735703 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Java doesn't use capability security, AFAIK < 1311370422 918572 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is practically based around it < 1311370435 917588 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because its native means of execution is basically arbitrary remote code execution < 1311370442 50183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it theoretically uses SecurityManager, which is designed around capabilities, it just makes a hash of it < 1311370448 493389 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you just reference an object that happens to not be on your computer, and it fetches it from the @ternet) < 1311370464 175757 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it could be a game of Asteroids, say) < 1311370467 139583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct user_regs_struct { long int ebx; long int ecx; long int edx; long int esi; long int edi; long int ebp; long int eax; long int xds; long int xes; long int xfs; long int xgs; long int orig_eax; long int eip; long int xcs; long int eflags; long int esp; long int xss; }; < 1311370468 251385 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it'd run and display as native code) < 1311370472 588084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most system-specific struct ever? < 1311370475 749109 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this means that I basically have Flash but better) < 1311370486 809813 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can embed games into a page, and they're exactly identical to native-code games) < 1311370487 7638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: or ActiveX but less broken? < 1311370490 381526 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, indeed < 1311370501 136866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using that struct < 1311370505 447263 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also kind of like the original web browser in that there's no local/remote distinction < 1311370506 407763 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ouch < 1311370510 99098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get at the arguments to syscalls, which are in registers at the time < 1311370530 88014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux only allows six arguments to a syscall, because then it runs out of registers < 1311370543 825066 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I take it that @ isn't based around arbitrary *machine code* execution, though. < 1311370550 732462 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not just use __asm__? < 1311370557 474986 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well, no < 1311370561 648609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: for what? < 1311370567 956291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to get at the args to a syscall in a different process < 1311370569 952148 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to get at registers < 1311370572 654047 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1311370573 761523 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1311370587 420163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm looking for the context-switched-out copy of the registers, not the current process registers < 1311370599 552879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole file is about grabbing the context that's been switched out of a process < 1311370638 496362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's different for x86 and x64 for that reason (I'm aiming at x86 for the time being) < 1311370653 627640 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x64" < 1311370654 885031 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't < 1311370660 167231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: sorry < 1311370667 420856 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I hope there's an Intel chip actually ending in that < 1311370673 33134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the platform needs some name < 1311370674 702461 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can talk about it and confuse people < 1311370686 385585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should call their 64-b < 1311370687 799174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct user_regs_struct < 1311370689 302029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1311370690 882969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int ebx; < 1311370692 320071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int ecx; < 1311370693 761011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int edx; < 1311370694 137556 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I usually say x86-64, because it's official enough, generic, and underscores are ugly < 1311370695 315406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int esi; < 1311370696 850744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int edi; < 1311370698 293194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int ebp; < 1311370699 764098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int eax; < 1311370701 297837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int xds; < 1311370702 775812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int xes; < 1311370704 331058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int xfs; < 1311370705 777255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int xgs; < 1311370707 306929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int orig_eax; < 1311370708 834938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int eip; < 1311370710 319069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int xcs; < 1311370711 863927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int eflags; < 1311370713 359394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int esp; < 1311370714 881241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int xss; < 1311370716 272758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1311370717 872973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, what just happened? < 1311370719 393591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I accidentally paste a 20-line struct? < 1311370719 592299 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm annoyed at you for being ais523, because Vorpal would have whined at anyone else by now < 1311370720 769118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, sorry < 1311370723 822181 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't mind < 1311370736 633275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts a single letter on the clipboard
< 1311370741 978421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case it happens again < 1311371012 879487 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311371026 284670 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually my D&D character also speaks Thesk language (due to being slavery there (do you like to nest parentheses this much? (I don't know)))) < 1311371029 859445 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311371047 955224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311371092 170800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I nested parentheses like that in the C-INTERCAL manual once < 1311371098 450235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as a joke, not because it was useful < 1311371138 195363 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In what part of the manual? < 1311371147 477348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = "Maybe. " ++ show [var x] in x < 1311371149 682631 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311371154 726356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't remember < 1311371159 687781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it mentioned recursion, but I'm not sure why < 1311371163 403399 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMBDABOOOOOT < 1311371170 211451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could search the manual for ))), it would probably find the relevant section quite quickly < 1311371194 233021 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gave you the boot < 1311371320 8969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : > let x = "Maybe. " ++ show [var x] in x < 1311371322 94053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this meant to be? < 1311371325 86975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. [Maybe. [...? < 1311371336 649734 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311371372 507924 :quintopi2!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311371467 288142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: I'm annoyed at you for being ais523, because Vorpal would have whined at anyone else by now <-- what? < 1311371478 962726 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311371572 689705 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Client Quit < 1311371596 870892 :quintopi2!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Client Quit < 1311371648 957775 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes. < 1311371677 818878 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably the var should be at the outside. < 1311371696 444766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var (show "x") < 1311371705 462001 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho hum < 1311371728 150315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1311371853 588245 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311372046 159657 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JavaScript must be enabled in your browser to display the table of contents." < 1311372054 568896 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On an Opa book) < 1311372070 605038 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's.. not encouraging to any beliefs that you gracefully degrade < 1311372197 727023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :opa sucks < 1311372240 730483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is opa? yet another active worlds? < 1311372266 991605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311372276 750599 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because it's more specialized than Ur, which allows for more than just web stuff, or for other reasons too? < 1311372295 672925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's like Ur without the only thing that makes Ur interesting, i.e. the type and module system < 1311372351 492606 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm interested in the web stuff < 1311372381 43580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe im allowed to say opa sucks regardless < 1311372938 540248 :CakeProphet!~adam@h107.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311372939 53187 :CakeProphet!~adam@h107.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311372939 251555 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311373322 998681 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311373460 979347 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311373490 587492 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311373872 544321 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read of the Gnostica game using tarot cards and Icehouse pyramids. Can a similar (but different) game be made using Fanucci cards? And maybe instead of Icehouse you can use some different kind of board, too. < 1311374014 45725 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311375454 991227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo < 1311375456 201163 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :531) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo < 1311375491 264805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those weren't non-sequiturs! < 1311375501 202807 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither was this banana < 1311375513 282422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 531 < 1311375514 660535 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1311375519 84829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry < 1311375520 327742 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :531) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry < 1311375525 129121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :( Ha. Note) < 1311375532 857433 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311375545 789670 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the second accidental pun I've made in the past five minutes < 1311375582 772078 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well please drop that pun before you hurt any more people < 1311375596 175895 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im hurt < 1311375607 896267 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shoe size is a UK 11" "11+25=36" "36/12=3" "That means my feet are about a foot long" "...Handy" < 1311375608 731392 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives monqy the banana
< 1311375627 216281 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :joy < 1311375636 848935 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your feet is supposed to be about a foot long, that is why they made up a foot measurement, isn't it? < 1311375649 88179 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311375657 841829 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The foot measurement is arbitrary and silly. Something about some king or other < 1311375667 763649 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was the Yard? < 1311375687 320992 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Yard is busy with a scandal. Let's leave them out of this < 1311375693 112716 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Yes, I think it might be the king's foot size, they measured, and that is approximately one foot. < 1311375693 390046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is it cold there its cold here < 1311375697 912023 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Topical humoUr < 1311375726 870644 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's 100˚F here < 1311375739 147864 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heat wave _-_ < 1311375749 36343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol texans < 1311375767 431210 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :New Hampshire, actually < 1311375778 279944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1311375781 105813 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :New Hampshire? < 1311375783 315374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was your freenode sevrer location < 1311375788 454369 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in New Hampshire! < 1311375794 310799 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, right? < 1311375796 968592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't new hampshire the one with all the stupid libertarians trying to make a ~free state~ < 1311375804 117135 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Bill Bryson lives there < 1311375806 812239 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there are like 5 of those < 1311375808 582805 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or lived there or something < 1311375816 653388 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's Quebec < 1311375818 320005 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Bill Bryson lives in Massachusetts, now. He used to live here, though < 1311375822 275034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: but it's _one_ of them < 1311375832 194924 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIVE FREE OR DIE < 1311375833 758576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://freestateproject.org/ < 1311375834 314240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311375835 955770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new hampshire < 1311375842 432780 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: its suny here < 1311375851 969128 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's night-y here < 1311375852 167036 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, those people < 1311375864 787541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are your social services like what with your lack of decent taxation and all :P < 1311375865 220780 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: foggy mornigsn though not cold nice though i like foggy i like cold i wish it were colder < 1311375877 462640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what tepermature was ite; < 1311375883 896686 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Better than most of the country, actually < 1311375887 832204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like cold but it makes my body parts cold and that makes walking hard < 1311375896 987278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: good job usa < 1311375905 98350 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ihave no theremometre < 1311375915 447914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: tr;y using google < 1311375922 700243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is the best key to typo with imo < 1311375931 492317 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its good < 1311375931 770479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=723&bih=658&q=temperature+where+monqy+is&oq=temperature+where+monqy+is&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=5183l10342l0l10493l34l23l2l8l8l0l247l1768l1.9.2l12 < 1311375934 258882 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :permature theremin < 1311375939 464378 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have completed my thereminometer, which measures the number of theremins in a 50 foot radius. Current reading: 1 < 1311375941 796527 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theremometre? < 1311375964 527913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: theremin buddies o/ < 1311375969 360296 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 degres it lokes like??? not too bad????? < 1311375971 105307 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nigh-impossible to make Massachusetts a "libertarian paradise". < 1311375973 247347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you never play yours too < 1311375976 330207 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: we are clearly asymptotically approaching a spelling singularity < 1311375981 143845 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with the People's Republic of Cambridge and all. < 1311375983 289487 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually do, sometimes < 1311375989 804955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it is like eleven degrees in here or something < 1311376023 360132 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that it has reached #esoteric, there cannot be much time left < 1311376049 461403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no its just me and monqy we don't lieke keybwords they do what we dont want them to be oding a lot < 1311376061 358814 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alot < 1311376065 95436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: thanks you < 1311376089 603588 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's what you _think_, but it is spreading < 1311376102 228368 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's Staffordshire again? < 1311376111 622324 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, how far South? < 1311376115 215794 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in about a year and a half, it reaches critical mass < 1311376127 845081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: birmingham < 1311376129 163281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aisland < 1311376129 620737 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's in the middle < 1311376135 985568 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1311376139 445273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :west midlands < 1311376144 440301 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire < 1311376171 218624 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: why drag the poor alot into this < 1311376187 320392 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The alots know what they did to deserve it < 1311376198 805114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip alots < 1311376222 849625 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip alots? that's just horribly cruel < 1311376235 455757 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir Rip-Alot < 1311376253 844515 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could you be so mean to alots? < 1311376270 690886 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn blood pressure... < 1311376273 257573 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too low < 1311376287 817081 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I react badly to changes in altitude < 1311376299 584805 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, headaches < 1311376300 140427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb is irc from everest < 1311376309 658506 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been smoking for four years, and my blood pressure is in the good range. I presume that this makes me better than science < 1311376310 821970 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes in altitude make my ears anoying < 1311376312 870815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it cold there Taneb too am i the only cold person in hexham < 1311376314 329955 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hq_> How could you be so mean to alots? < 1311376318 494947 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:11 Tanewat < 1311376321 502378 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :smokeing is bad for you... < 1311376329 370025 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Apparently not *that* bad < 1311376331 878061 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was not a good cut and paste < 1311376332 156431 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :long cancer < 1311376339 497746 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that cold, but I have a warm house < 1311376348 91808 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should try pushing ^C < 1311376358 791223 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries < 1311376361 635406 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, it's pretty cold outside < 1311376373 631298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people smoke it has like the most boring effect of any drug < 1311376389 701644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it makes me feel a bit better i GUESS" WRONG you're just a lameo who picked the wrong addiction < 1311376390 602243 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because it's cool, of course < 1311376392 871699 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eggar's saying the wind's coming from the West, so it may get warmer < 1311376396 500556 :confab!180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185 PART :#esoteric < 1311376398 507614 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not an addict < 1311376401 554329 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a luxury item < 1311376402 183608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should put different warnings on the packets < 1311376403 637989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: LAMEST DRUG < 1311376407 740600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noboyd would buy it < 1311376407 938167 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1311376413 896282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOESN'T EVEN DO THAT MUCH < 1311376423 141696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :KNOWN BY THE STATE OF WHEREVER TO BE A WASTE OF MONEY PRETTY MUCH < 1311376437 151658 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET WEED INSTEAD? < 1311376439 895283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1311376442 41946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT TAXED < 1311376471 298480 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you take the unofficial danger tax as a tax < 1311376489 267218 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1311376489 502036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the title of the page it says "Well-Typed - The Haskell Consultants" but i want to know who are the haskell conraisins? < 1311376492 810827 :ghoulmaster!~ghoulmast@254.sub-174-252-52.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311376516 98397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghoulmaster: hello < 1311376523 863060 :ghoulmaster!~ghoulmast@254.sub-174-252-52.myvzw.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey elliott < 1311376544 146062 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds the new nicks suspicious
< 1311376548 234794 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They try to sell you overpriced dried grapes, claiming that they're functional < 1311376550 426748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taos has been here before < 1311376554 802480 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311376557 217470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghoulmaster: hello we are about programming < 1311376558 183087 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell conraisinjs? < 1311376559 732319 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have I now? < 1311376560 434778 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote in the title of the page it says "Well-Typed - The Haskell Consultants" but i want to know who are the haskell conraisins? < 1311376561 869144 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :532) in the title of the page it says "Well-Typed - The Haskell Consultants" but i want to know who are the haskell conraisins? < 1311376567 735628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: get it, sultanas < 1311376576 259563 :ghoulmaster!~ghoulmast@254.sub-174-252-52.myvzw.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know < 1311376576 930858 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sultans < 1311376585 532751 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of swing? < 1311376594 756788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghoulmaster: ok, lots of people don't :P < 1311376607 200264 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this is about programming?~ < 1311376613 59823 :ghoulmaster!~ghoulmast@254.sub-174-252-52.myvzw.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol i could see that with the name... < 1311376618 360494 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was a comparative literature channel < 1311376624 511111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghoulmaster: precisely < 1311376631 258410 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? I thought this was to do with elephants < 1311376640 325811 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember coming here before < 1311376643 97068 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Comparative algorithmically-generated literature channel. < 1311376653 902268 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat, isn't it? < 1311376656 265090 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Ah, of course. The veil lifts < 1311376665 374643 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck derivative party channel < 1311376682 837387 :Somelauw!~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw JOIN :#esoteric < 1311376688 840357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok _who_ mentioned us and where < 1311376693 822892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell again? < 1311376701 243684 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conraisins are about raisin money < 1311376702 872834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311376703 570120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1311376710 714129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mentioned us in #nethack once, I think < 1311376710 992378 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck has disappointing few brains and barely any fucks < 1311376716 859042 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read it as "raisin monqy" and got real confused < 1311376731 660908 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Barely any == 0? < 1311376738 915074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: s/disappointing/disappointingly/ < 1311376741 417242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can addquote it without lying < 1311376743 236339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz < 1311376743 716198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1311376744 996368 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever get laid because of brainfuck, that will be the real brainfuck < 1311376762 200364 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: its worked for me < 1311376767 168260 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8)))) < 1311376771 850655 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MIND < 1311376774 214103 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I can spell your name in + and > and < and - < 1311376775 340364 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if it's with a human heart < 1311376777 602203 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :now shag me? < 1311376782 429163 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a book about esolangs < 1311376783 761152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: surely you mean brain < 1311376786 762502 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/esoteric-programming-languages-books-llc/1022380853?ean=9781155349770&itm=1&usri=brainfuck < 1311376793 534037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: omg no that was my calling < 1311376796 596511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by Books LLC? < 1311376798 799802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am suspicious of this < 1311376803 840135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm going to buy it anyway < 1311376814 40902 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice overview too < 1311376815 942565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it's wikipedia < 1311376821 612009 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purchase includes free access to book updates online and a free trial membership in the publisher's book club where you can select from more than a million books without charge. < 1311376825 807287 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean what I say < 1311376830 761900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the description is from wikipedia < 1311376845 889218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also esolangs... wtf < 1311376848 107051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who copied who < 1311376858 724636 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a wild guess < 1311376867 811931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: no, it is _quite possible_ wp copied us, which is legal < 1311376870 625598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other way around is not < 1311376887 158876 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I meant the book < 1311376889 73411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the contents are an exact match with the Wikipedia category, I think that's it < 1311376904 457000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the articles < 1311376926 785845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the excerpt is an exact match with Wikipedia < 1311376929 296778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311376933 208770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suspect it is indeed a Wikipedia excerpt book < 1311376933 879778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that text is not actually in the eoslangs article < 1311376934 348057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311376936 291161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just in the google summary < 1311376937 226271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1311376945 212189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I kind of still want to own it :) < 1311376949 140025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for that cover < 1311376967 7731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably an autogenerated cover < 1311376967 242914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it worth 12 pounds????? we report, you decide < 1311376971 244439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: precisely < 1311376978 703079 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet it's printed on toilet paper and recycled newsprint < 1311376980 900278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it lists Esoteric Programming Language as a language < 1311376982 12126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you go from ISBN → Amazon link? < 1311376988 822230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YES I WANT IT BECAUSE IT IS BAD OK < 1311377026 800365 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just cooked my own brainfuck interpreter < 1311377027 268186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/s?search-alias=stripbooks&field-isbn=1155349776 < 1311377032 507651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I see no GFDL on that Barns an dNoble page < 1311377041 7514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, Special:Booksources < 1311377044 594595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip :( < 1311377054 689020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i have to buy it from barnes and noble then < 1311377056 880786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a no-results-found on Amazon, though < 1311377066 909791 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Esoterics-Websters-Quotations-Facts-Phrases/dp/0546763294/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311376994&sr=1-1 what the fuck < 1311377067 107756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Esoteric-Programming-Languages-Kvikkalkul-Instruction/dp/images/1155349776 --Google < 1311377070 534152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're sorry. The Web address you entered is not a functioning page on our site --Amazon < 1311377075 214913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO IS RIGHT???? < 1311377078 701290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively: http://books.google.com/books?id=kHOLSQAACAAJ&dq=isbn:1155349776&hl=en&ei=ngYqTtqMLdTE8QPPsvH-Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA < 1311377082 799290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1311377092 940000 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" This is not an encyclopedic book, but rather a collage of statements made using the word "esoterics," or related words (e.g. inflections, synonyms or antonyms)." < 1311377095 341080 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PART :#esoteric < 1311377099 661230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "related books" there is suspicious < 1311377105 144534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: heh, lol < 1311377106 997834 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just... random sentences that have the word "esoteric" < 1311377108 154840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like another generated thing < 1311377117 750263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the editorial decision to include or exclude terms is purely a computer-generated linguistic process." < 1311377125 814140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, "esoterics" < 1311377130 650640 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How very esoteric < 1311377132 480143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, esoteric too < 1311377134 801219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1311377137 787227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1311377140 34907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to buy this too.... < 1311377141 853682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's forty pages < 1311377142 531306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311377153 149954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also buy a copy of "Non-English-Based Programming Languages: Brainfuck, Plankalkül, Befunge, Rapira, Malbolge, Non-English-Based Programming Languages, False" < 1311377155 361073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Price: £27.50 & this item Delivered FREE in the UK with Super Saver Delivery. See details and conditions < 1311377155 967824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o;h < 1311377163 465242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: god dammit why are there so many books i want??????? < 1311377168 529065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait omg Plankalkül?? < 1311377173 998928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1311377178 503803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why would you buy books that were that autogenerated? < 1311377182 357099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it include that one with "GRUNNUR"; < 1311377182 555318 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, goodnight folks < 1311377185 575616 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should make a program to write novels for me..........make$$$$$$$$ < 1311377185 773057 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a wiki book? < 1311377189 142179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fjolnir < 1311377192 446049 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311377199 162499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry Fjölnir < 1311377202 288101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it's in the category < 1311377203 564384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it does < 1311377205 205108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg omg omg i want it < 1311377210 734771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT ALL THE SHITTY BOOKS < 1311377219 62819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: calm down < 1311377230 471524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i can;t im onverhwlemed < 1311377235 542187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries
< 1311377239 403125 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1311377246 856027 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric : ____ _ _ < 1311377247 53982 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric : / ___| ___ ___ __| | |__ _ _ ___ < 1311377247 272745 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :| | _ / _ \ / _ \ / _` | '_ \| | | |/ _ \ < 1311377247 470960 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :| |_| | (_) | (_) | (_| | |_) | |_| | __/ < 1311377247 471126 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric : \____|\___/ \___/ \__,_|_.__/ \__, |\___| < 1311377249 349054 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric : |___/ < 1311377256 10465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311377265 1285 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311377276 252322 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose your not in a terminal < 1311377276 486774 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taos: you too < 1311377290 241502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about my not in a terminal < 1311377292 673075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a variable-width font for IRC < 1311377296 887789 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :means me pumping figlet into the shell does nothing for you < 1311377299 57792 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says Goodbye, btw < 1311377299 613341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which technically has nothing to do with whether I'm in a terminal or not < 1311377304 701633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taos: it doesn't pump into /our/ shell < 1311377308 376999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my terminal's fixed-width as it would otherwise be hard to play NetHack < 1311377309 905811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pumps into yours < 1311377311 573212 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why does it say goodbye........................... < 1311377323 10299 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I got bored and wanted to say that < 1311377326 572233 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311377326 770042 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, he's surrounded #esoteric with TNT < 1311377327 155325 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311377333 840489 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :double ok < 1311377341 531264 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: its demo time < 1311377356 368550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is figlet some sort of alternative version of banner(1)? < 1311377360 555919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses a less overblown font? < 1311377363 956168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1311377367 334118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are people who don't know what figlet is? < 1311377371 653865 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1311377374 308540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :figlet is basically super-general banner < 1311377377 756278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has font files, etc. < 1311377400 38104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.figlet.org/ < 1311377409 262139 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the first thing I install < 1311377415 253796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taos: not cowsay? :( < 1311377429 925939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I made a major discovery today: pressing / in the Gnome file chooser dialog box makes it actually add a textbox you can type the filename in < 1311377433 40386 :Somelauw!~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311377433 238165 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thats second < 1311377443 564747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really makes that dialog box about 50% less stupid < 1311377449 1274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/mcmap$ figlet im cow | cowsay < 1311377449 199318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : _________________________________________ < 1311377449 199504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| \ / __/ _ \ \ /\ / / | | | | | | | | | < 1311377449 199606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| (_| (_) \ V V / |_|_| |_| |_| \___\___/ | < 1311377450 368589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ \_/\_/ / < 1311377452 429960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ----------------------------------------- < 1311377453 487627 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : _ _ < 1311377453 765390 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : __| | ___ __ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ __ _ ___ __| | < 1311377453 963524 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : / _` |/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \/ _ \/ __|/ _ \ / __|/ _ \/ _ \ / _` |/ _ \ / _` | < 1311377453 963690 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :| (_| | (_) | | (_| | __/ __/\__ \ __/ \__ \ __/ __/ | (_| | (_) | (_| | < 1311377453 963791 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : \__,_|\___/ \__, |\___|\___||___/\___| |___/\___|\___| \__, |\___/ \__,_| < 1311377454 599263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ ^__^ < 1311377456 127844 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : |___/ |___/ < 1311377456 545098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ (oo)\_______ < 1311377458 669589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (__)\ )\/\ < 1311377460 554049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ||----w | < 1311377461 873752 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im literally dead < 1311377462 151588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : || || < 1311377462 921901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :irl < 1311377464 17525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1311377468 930451 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay now everyone is piping into irc < 1311377470 731793 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only works if your window is wide enough < 1311377472 531053 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :my job here is done < 1311377487 356800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed that the first thing you install isn't sdate < 1311377494 471362 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdate? < 1311377498 506729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 58th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3177 < 1311377506 947423 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally gotta install taht! < 1311377507 146045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries sdate ddate
< 1311377514 111172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work :( < 1311377517 779455 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i can see it now < 1311377533 546259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdate is pretty good at breaking programs randomly < 1311377535 607323 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one however makes little to no sense < 1311377545 329681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdate ddate: Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 58th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3159 < 1311377557 858033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.0.4 < 1311377571 108633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the vast majority of programs assume that September is only 30 days long, and that the library function will never return anything outside that range < 1311377574 127862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi, version 7.0.4: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help < 1311377574 405464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package ghc-prim ... linking ... done. < 1311377574 603481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package integer-gmp ... linking ... done. < 1311377574 603641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package base ... linking ... done. < 1311377574 603741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package ffi-1.0 ... linking ... done. < 1311377575 100798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> Leaving GHCi. < 1311377578 440639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1311377580 449393 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why does it break programs randomly < 1311377582 449783 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today is Pungenday,the 57th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3177 < 1311377589 67357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taos: because it uses eternal september dates < 1311377591 152354 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different time zone < 1311377591 873126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which aren't, technically, valid < 1311377596 835255 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1311377597 803404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taos: because the vast majority of programs assume that September is only 30 days long, and that the library function will never return anything outside that range < 1311377607 269604 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats odd < 1311377610 554414 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :im tired < 1311377618 265349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, only about two years until the thousandth of september < 1311377620 108020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1311377620 951036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdate's a prefix to other commands that modifies dates to just be expressed in terms of september 1993 < 1311377622 206145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, only about two years until the seven thousandth of september < 1311377628 499051 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah -- now i forget what font I was using < 1311377639 943961 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' < 1311377640 142198 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1311377646 829336 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric : _ < 1311377647 27862 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :| |__ _ _ ___ < 1311377647 28024 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :| '_ \| | | |/ _ \ < 1311377647 28124 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :| |_) | |_| | __/ < 1311377647 28220 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :|_.__/ \__, |\___| < 1311377648 806316 :Taos!~jakob@vvps-085402.dailyvps.co.uk QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311377653 61649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1311377654 3834 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bue < 1311377660 581455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1311377665 411513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at his /bin/sh failure < 1311377669 164816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1311377669 658720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with his /exec line < 1311377671 848179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his quitting too early < 1311377678 795779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/his/gender neutral pronoun/ < 1311377682 157639 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : _ _ _ < 1311377682 356230 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :| |__ _ _ ___ | |__ _ _ ___ | |__ _ _ ___ < 1311377682 356416 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :| '_ \| | | |/ _ \ | '_ \| | | |/ _ \ | '_ \| | | |/ _ \ < 1311377682 356552 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :| |_) | |_| | __/ | |_) | |_| | __/ | |_) | |_| | __/ < 1311377682 356654 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :|_.__/ \__,_|\___| |_.__/ \__,_|\___| |_.__/ \__,_|\___| < 1311377682 783512 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1311377684 538381 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311377699 796563 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote bue < 1311377701 876 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :533) bue < 1311377707 154982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523, how much would you hate me if I violated XDG standards < 1311377709 546748 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :immprtalized < 1311377711 725928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: he didnt say bue >:| < 1311377714 325324 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHat's YOLD? < 1311377716 466563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 533 < 1311377717 631441 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1311377724 945176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote _ | |__ _ _ ___ | '_ \| | | |/ _ \ | |_) | |_| | __/ |_.__/ \__, |\___| < 1311377726 352434 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :533) _ | |__ _ _ ___ | '_ \| | | |/ _ \ | |_) | |_| | __/ |_.__/ \__, |\___| < 1311377728 236536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: fixed that for you < 1311377731 856524 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: YOLD is the year indication for the Discordian calendar. < 1311377737 166160 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE~ < 1311377742 529630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure what XDG standards are < 1311377744 459540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure yet < 1311377759 418264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well the one in particular is why you have a ~/.config/ directory < 1311377766 910694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1311377767 108519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also ~/.cache, and I think ~/.local too < 1311377774 356752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed Wesnoth being changed to comply with those < 1311377777 987215 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What command is ais523 using to get that? < 1311377782 69119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's an environment variable so you can move ~/.config, it's horribly broken though < 1311377785 84340 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are there any books published about esoteric programming languages? < 1311377785 541054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to get regular dotfiles with it < 1311377790 295276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to reserve a directory for it < 1311377796 311452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly just ignore those standards < 1311377796 728286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm adding configuration to mcmap < 1311377797 307357 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than auto-generated < 1311377799 310277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i just want to use ~/.mcmap < 1311377800 752244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't mind whether people follow it or not < 1311377810 696733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, thanks, although it's fizzie's opinion that actually matters :P < 1311377813 971511 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Why would someone publish such a book? < 1311377819 299457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, ddate, derp < 1311377820 551345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, programs I've worked on have used ~/.acehackrc and ~/.taeb < 1311377821 491430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant hide from esoteric < 1311377825 839750 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I have seen some magazine articles in some magazines about Linux. I have also seen there is a Japanese book that describes a few esolangs including one of my own. < 1311377830 135737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it wasn't me using ddate < 1311377831 712053 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think INTERCAL might have a book out there some where < 1311377833 240237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : so are there any books published about esoteric programming languages? < 1311377833 988382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1311377836 212765 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1311377837 36042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just linked to one < 1311377839 119869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and talked about it < 1311377848 223591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't really a book about esolangs < 1311377849 949690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which book < 1311377855 28570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure it is >:| < 1311377855 226745 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : other than auto-generated < 1311377855 960243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much as a book containing Wikipedia articles about esolangs < 1311377862 461960 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1311377868 589547 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-225.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311377871 199136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is a book that has a bunch of articles written by its author about esolangs not a book about esolangs? < 1311377879 422800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia's just happen to have really long author lists, that's all < 1311377882 398887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it's not a physical book yet AFAIK, but the C-INTERCAL Revamped Reference Manual is an esolang-related book < 1311377893 266372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the author's written as "Books, LLC" < 1311377904 162461 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I forget its title although I know there is a book that parts of it describe a few esolangs including one of my own. And it is Japanese book. < 1311377904 870253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as the actual authors of the book < 1311377914 754663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pseudonym < 1311377923 146544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that's actually illegal under the GFDL, if you make a compilation out of GFDL stuff you have to list at least five actual authors on the title page < 1311377926 481610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there are less than five < 1311377926 679616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and changing an author name hardly affects what a book is about < 1311377932 538648 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a bit of a pointless exercize i know < 1311377937 783895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably the CC-by-sa license is more lenient < 1311377986 293242 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a piece of trash text no doubt < 1311377989 120669 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is why, when I write a book usually I do not use the GFDL. I don't care whether or not they list the author, or how the book is organized, or whatever. They would have to change it for various purposes including different paper sizes, and so on. < 1311378001 784231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, famous pubished author < 1311378027 187880 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What about famous pubished author? < 1311378031 277559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its you < 1311378037 191794 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? I don't think so. < 1311378044 223490 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never published a book (yet). < 1311378057 191057 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1311378112 447845 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking on the wikipedia wiki, there were printed INTERCAL manuals < 1311378128 67338 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said :D < 1311378133 637941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: yes, the original manuals were printed, and the electronic version of the manuals based on them < 1311378145 734776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and proofread against the paper manuals by someone else < 1311378165 855634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not sure if "wikipedia wiki" = Wikipedia or Wikimedia Meta-Wiki < 1311378166 446355 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice how i phrased it so that wikipedia is just a specialization of a wiki < 1311378177 489152 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you're not sure.. < 1311378187 614577 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the better for me to do such things < 1311378194 285600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as, e.g. "nethack wiki" = "wiki about NetHack" = "nethackwiki.com", I'd assume "wikipedia wiki" = "wiki about Wikipedia" = "meta.wikimedia.org" < 1311378196 915669 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If in some day, I publish some book, that might include some of the programs I have written too, but also some other books, possibly. However I never yet publish any book. < 1311378214 830731 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote If in some day, I publish some book, that might include some of the programs I have written too, but also some other books, possibly. However I never yet publish any book. < 1311378216 82083 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :534) If in some day, I publish some book, that might include some of the programs I have written too, but also some other books, possibly. However I never yet publish any book. < 1311378217 255356 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, the "about" is a misnomer < 1311378221 896416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: that was just regular zzo < 1311378223 105395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311378226 42205 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it < 1311378226 950838 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311378246 532255 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what has happened here though < 1311378248 228255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well, would you interpret "nethack wiki" as implying that NetHack is a wiki? < 1311378248 506406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but if we addquoted everything zzo38 said... :D < 1311378258 158491 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: ok i see now... hahahha < 1311378263 772086 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's the nethack wiki wiki < 1311378285 631892 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dead < 1311378288 165467 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I am OK whether you put my quotations or not, it doesn't matter to me either way, but also either way I can collect them by looking at the list of the quotations that are available. < 1311378296 263535 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack which is a wiki.....is a wiki < 1311378298 420518 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311378309 695180 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo is a warrior-poet < 1311378325 295871 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name is formally "nethack wiki" and "nethack wiki" is a wiki, hence: nethack wiki wiki < 1311378337 150409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: this is really bad terminology < 1311378350 708579 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nethack wiki wiki a wiki < 1311378351 681302 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki wiki wiki wack < 1311378359 358326 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :west jim west < 1311378367 248540 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki wild wild west < 1311378368 954632 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311378376 305798 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 itidus20 < 1311378395 928435 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i suppose i have created a tautology < 1311378397 268722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so scapegoat................................. < 1311378400 934351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs to exist....... < 1311378408 326662 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as does Feather < 1311378412 315506 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1311378421 461711 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does zepto < 1311378422 176700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: agreed < 1311378432 313904 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you win < 1311378437 633304 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia it is < 1311378439 32646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scapegoat needs to be written in zepto-feather < 1311378445 288665 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :un-zepto < 1311378464 710983 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, 0 infections found < 1311378466 996411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather would be a really really bad language to write a VCS in, I imagine < 1311378485 182390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does that mean that your virus protection is good or your virus scanner is bad? < 1311378494 771168 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know about feather is what i read on the wiki page < 1311378497 210712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was about to ask who said he was talking about computer viruses < 1311378502 244798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I realise that you didn't imply that, either < 1311378510 787490 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thus wikipedia could be "most prolific encyclopedia wiki" vs "nethack wiki" < 1311378515 476566 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311378524 972612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can wikis be prolific < 1311378530 433830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: only with a nonstandard (but correct) definition of "or" < 1311378532 266771 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not.. < 1311378539 234491 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, the scanner is by ESET, which has a good reputation < 1311378541 890558 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: That sounds like a poor translation of an ancient Chinese manuscript < 1311378546 100636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh right, they do < 1311378549 732037 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a fallacy of some kind < 1311378551 82286 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry to burst the not-a-computer-virus buble < 1311378553 181365 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bubble < 1311378555 770577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why? < 1311378557 8486 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancient chinese manuscript wiki wiki < 1311378569 64941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suppose you jumped to "virus" < 1311378570 674207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From infection < 1311378578 823497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's certainly infection protection and infection scanners in the real world < 1311378584 344270 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT statements end in wiki wiki < 1311378601 164430 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo was inspecting his wiki wiki < 1311378601 720158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now there is also wiki related to TeXnicard project (on Redmine), but it is currently empty (except for the file that says it is currently empty) < 1311378611 693124 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iykwim wiki wiki < 1311378615 789742 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are many encyclopedia wikis.. but wikipedia is the biggest < 1311378616 847472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, the file is a lie! < 1311378629 497897 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I know..... but, it is mostly empty. < 1311378635 146197 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty wiki < 1311378652 642693 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty wiki wiki, a wiki cataloging empty wikis < 1311378666 6790 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also an empty wiki about wikis < 1311378684 217482 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wrong about wiki wiki < 1311378686 616085 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just realized that one wiki can be both < 1311378687 592920 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a tautology < 1311378703 254915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im fish < 1311378709 829422 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :swim < 1311378712 454532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311378712 871490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311378721 38285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a leaf on the wind < 1311378725 736629 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im monqy < 1311378726 479402 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311378730 698321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if anyone's noticed, but me and monqy are pretty much the biggest contributors to this channel < 1311378736 539771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you do without us??? < 1311378740 709738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you do a paragraph break in Markdown? < 1311378756 336026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the front page of the patch-tag wiki about AceHack accidentally got Slashdotted < 1311378759 333589 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably have a life < 1311378762 312139 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a blank line? I don't know. < 1311378766 745828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, there is a para break there < 1311378770 126017 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sort of a parasite on a channel, but i am great at generating randomness < 1311378771 383733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that the styling's so bad I can't see it < 1311378790 932761 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you're like sgeo but more so. bizarro sgeo. < 1311378791 488700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: two lines < 1311378792 509416 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a blank line is a paragraph break on MediaWiki, and in TeX, too, by default. < 1311378792 920182 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly what we need here is the wiki monads and comonads < 1311378800 619271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, I thought it wasn't working < 1311378806 312632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: patch-tag is a really ugly website :( < 1311378809 255642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a bad usability way < 1311378812 800484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311378815 820395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1311378825 271228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also acehack has like fifty problems, did you know, i remember telling you about them and them being dismissed :D < 1311378826 682042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just using it for hosting, really, it's not a "proper" website < 1311378831 427888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know < 1311378835 141663 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly < 1311378841 586287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly < 1311378842 886298 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :535) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly < 1311378851 436106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last night in my dreams I was a banana... looking ghostly < 1311378855 796833 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so I can say random gibberish and get quoted for it? < 1311378858 769353 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. < 1311378862 847179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that was funny gibberish < 1311378868 972301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. < 1311378870 185474 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :536) itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. < 1311378875 8343 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My lenses are made of bananas < 1311378877 371360 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with join :: Wiki (Wiki a) -> Wiki a and cojoin :: Wiki a -> Wiki (Wiki a) < 1311378883 906513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: nope, quotes are closed i'm afraid < 1311378894 697766 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't looking for a quote :P < 1311378901 903721 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, I'm a banana. Your lenses are made out of me. < 1311378906 506418 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGH < 1311378912 631726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, how long has that slashdot article been without comments, ais523? < 1311378914 449871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, with only two < 1311378921 446902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably about five minutes < 1311378924 435884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only just went up < 1311378925 289307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311378925 567351 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeouiggol < 1311378927 3118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #junethack are panicking < 1311378929 38606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what timezone does /. use, anyway? < 1311378947 380199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to my view, it uses my timezone < 1311378949 314016 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What /. article? < 1311378951 729416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's possibly because I'm logged in < 1311378953 912237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: feel free to explain that one to them < 1311378956 137236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/07/22/2338215/First-NetHack-Cross-Variant-Summer-Tournament < 1311378959 567150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could start with "He's an idiot" < 1311378963 884078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I just esolanged Slashdot < 1311378968 134496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it can take the load? < 1311378974 317578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*esotericed < 1311378980 365518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolanging it would be putting it on the wiki < 1311378980 671650 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ok guys. I am doing what I can to keep my psyche and ego surviving. All the while the threat of ww3 looms, the mortality of family and friends(loved ones?) and sooner or llater my own mortality. < 1311378994 883734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote It's ok guys. I am doing what I can to keep my psyche and ego surviving. All the while the threat of ww3 looms, the mortality of family and friends(loved ones?) and sooner or llater my own mortality. < 1311378996 273649 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :537) It's ok guys. I am doing what I can to keep my psyche and ego surviving. All the while the threat of ww3 looms, the mortality of family and friends(loved ones?) and sooner or llater my own mortality. < 1311379000 426743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how did junethack react to my brilliance.............. < 1311379007 660815 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't. < 1311379010 983414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: god bless you < 1311379015 646146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't get it < 1311379024 924055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: itidus20 is the best, any questions? < 1311379027 889362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean in channel? < 1311379029 511720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they ignored you < 1311379034 719191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311379036 606212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311379040 717504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sohuld say hi to them so they dont ignore me < 1311379043 700215 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just tried to tell elliott that < 1311379054 476476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accepted it < 1311379055 159891 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he just did to me what #junethack did to elliott < 1311379057 124911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, time passed < 1311379067 399276 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone ignore elliott < 1311379075 577875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: self-loathing? < 1311379076 374546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I'm an op on #junethack, so don't try anything too trollish < 1311379086 739560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: its ok ur my pal i know you wouldn't ban me or anything < 1311379120 432175 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly for no specific reason
< 1311379123 423275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're acting out of character now < 1311379138 704410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm acting perfectly in character, you just don't understand the levels i operate on < 1311379162 16026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'm done, i hope they accept my apology < 1311379166 192285 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROFUNDITY RISING < 1311379167 49747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm too embarrassed to stay there to accept it < 1311379170 345509 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants thack in june, anyway < 1311379217 689505 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capitalism is a cancer. But I'm a smoker, anyway, so... < 1311379233 293729 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :double cancer < 1311379233 710763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Capitalism is a cancer. But I'm a smoker, anyway, so... < 1311379234 976314 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :538) Capitalism is a cancer. But I'm a smoker, anyway, so... < 1311379267 765901 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is socialism then? Lupus? < 1311379312 512850 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not lupus < 1311379322 523949 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. ok then. < 1311379409 272797 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everyone else seems to be able to cope with the people they spend most of their time with." That's what I tell myself at first. But then you hear about the divorces and custardy battles. The domestic violence. Cruel managers. Tyrannical dictators. "What would I do or how would I feel if I was one of them?" < 1311379422 599503 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to add every quote during my bizzaro rant though. < 1311379453 397677 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now see.. if they hadn't gotten to me i could just read my sentences normally < 1311379477 827082 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :custardy battles are really gruesome things < 1311379483 478412 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i also learned about this concept of embedded suggestions, hence: "add every quote during my bizzaro rant" and "read my sentences" < 1311379492 85060 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Beat me to it < 1311379507 475584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not intentionally though.. it occurs in normal grammar. < 1311379541 500809 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, if you were the one on the receiving end, or the one on the giving end? < 1311379561 762964 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably feel pretty awesome in the latter case < 1311379590 377726 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#junethack is a boring channel < 1311379595 608829 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardly any puns at all < 1311379609 226454 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thack _is_ boring. also it's july already. < 1311379618 435943 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :julythack < 1311379619 609967 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should rename. < 1311379650 366157 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got all my thacking done in May < 1311379698 136685 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this crowd.. and believe me there is such a crowd, is saying that people filter out logic and just see imperatives < 1311379710 673262 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least thats what they seem to be saying < 1311379728 326574 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Those are what we call "voters" < 1311379868 806193 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an xkcd comic which reminds me of what im describing < 1311379900 323956 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/842/ < 1311379936 846209 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311380099 154152 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ju is not a month < 1311380133 393753 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1311380134 136824 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the street fighter back story there is a team of evil women named after months < 1311380136 676570 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :portmantaeus don't exist < 1311380139 10834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally meant to be in June, but people decided July was better for them < 1311380155 135080 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :............................................______ __ < 1311380155 333187 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....................................,.-‘”...................``~., < 1311380155 531381 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.............................,.-”...................................“-., < 1311380155 531565 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.........................,/...............................................”:, < 1311380158 557872 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....................,?........................... ..........................., < 1311380161 560915 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.................../.................................................. .........,} < 1311380164 554000 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :................./.................................................. ....,:`^`..} < 1311380167 670000 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.............../.................................................. .,:”........./ < 1311380170 589197 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..............?.....__............................ .............:`.........../ < 1311380173 488721 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :............./__.(.....“~-,_..............................,:`........../ < 1311380176 15548 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.........../(_....”~,_........“~,_....................,:`..... ..._/ < 1311380178 570437 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....} < 1311380181 95951 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...........((.....*~_.......”=-._......“;,,./`..../”............../ < 1311380183 549723 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...,,,___.`~,......“~.,....................`..... }............../ < 1311380186 145387 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-” < 1311380188 619319 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :............/.`~,......`-...................................../ < 1311380190 989976 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ < 1311380193 702609 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,_..........}.>-._...................................|........... ...`=~-, < 1311380196 109674 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....`=~-,__......`,................................. < 1311380198 536947 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...................`=~-,,.,............................... < 1311380201 151588 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :................................`:,,.............. .............`..............__ < 1311380204 118836 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` < 1311380206 584533 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :........................................_........ …_,-%…….` < 1311380209 103465 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my response < 1311380219 231138 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a whale < 1311380226 193618 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that picture of something? Of what? < 1311380226 471805 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh < 1311380226 670001 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very like a whale < 1311380227 26560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: that's not quite the same thing as accidentally pasting a 20-line struct into the channel < 1311380251 832710 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: /facepalm < 1311380258 998509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: yeah, don't do that. < 1311380269 428852 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never again. I just realized a script I had did that < 1311380271 285251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an ardent pro-pasting activist, that's way too long < 1311380274 513992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it facepalm? < 1311380285 262051 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it picture of facepalm? < 1311380286 628450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: would you abuse ops in #esoteric if you had them? < 1311380287 607878 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not a whale < 1311380288 25431 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1311380290 205695 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats all i know < 1311380294 791159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I can grant them to you, I'm just curious as to the answer) < 1311380295 742290 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1311380311 336835 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Juni and Juli are members of a special unit within Shadaloo called the "Dolls", also known as Bison Elite Guard, which is composed of twelve young women brainwashed to serve as Bison's personal assassins. The twelve members of the Dolls are named after the months of the Gregorian calendar in various languages, with Juni and Juli being German for June and July. < 1311380324 19847 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: thank you, i couldn't see it before you said it < 1311380326 140040 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there even any ops in #esoteric? < 1311380327 810562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No. < 1311380329 18883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Yes. < 1311380329 296095 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :junithack, julithack < 1311380338 964568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I mean, maybe for a joke, but not beyond that < 1311380344 876758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be hard to attract an op here sometimes < 1311380348 161725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not always < 1311380371 207347 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Op powers are only for trolling, as far as I can tell < 1311380379 308713 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As they should be < 1311380401 790135 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im bad with power i never know what to do with it < 1311380445 34746 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i was _this_ far from banning NihilistDandy < 1311380453 523078 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T_T < 1311380454 794690 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have power in some places. Then left those places to rot < 1311380469 819608 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: temporarily mind you < 1311380474 664378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am become Sgeo destroyer of virtual worlds < 1311380486 214571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god that was a good one < 1311380486 776267 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since when are wikis virtual worlds? < 1311380490 835445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu < 1311380500 339687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan gimme ops i need to find out for sure whether i'd abuse them or not < 1311380511 99722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NetHackWiki? < 1311380517 346005 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny guy < 1311380522 895148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i figure i'll inevitably get ops if i just stick around here long enough < 1311380527 581637 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As compensation: http://www.smbc-comics.com/#comic < 1311380528 761776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to be the only person here in thirty years < 1311380535 361559 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, and Creatures Wik, although I was a bit more involved there. And Superosity wiki < 1311380566 811505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I tend to randomly pick up ops in all sorts of places when I don't expect it < 1311380588 276778 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'll be dead in 30 years. HackEgo will become self-aware and destroy all meatbags in its quote file < 1311380594 139217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't happened here, yet, even though this is one of the channels people might most expect me to be an op in (given that I'm one of the two active wiki admins, and Keymaker rarely comes here) < 1311380642 589871 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311380674 509362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'll get ops when oerjan becomes a wiki admin < 1311380683 374239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you already have them, enjoy! < 1311380728 520241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311380768 226590 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +q :*!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.99.21.147 > 1311380768 264549 NAMES :#esoteric < 1311380786 497222 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric -q :*!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.99.21.147 > 1311380786 517975 NAMES :#esoteric < 1311380848 352558 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do publish any of my computer program in books, I should also included the DVD of the program in the back of the book, too. (This is one idea about literate programming, although there are others, too.) < 1311380890 58409 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, btw, is apparently the cloak of user "test" :P < 1311380900 335061 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was wondering < 1311380942 731934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: who's test < 1311380949 882563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311380950 835753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an person < 1311380956 537738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION says hi to them
< 1311380959 770956 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the poor innocent victim of my chanserv testing < 1311380971 22724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not victim, now friend!!! < 1311381005 535694 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Victim != friend? < 1311381009 641928 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been misinformed < 1311381012 149713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now wtf would it segfault /there/ < 1311381012 984302 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you /msg'ed em? < 1311381013 321640 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some calls to make < 1311381027 189055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes :D < 1311381032 154875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you ascend a scope in gdb? ais523? < 1311381040 131894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :frame number < 1311381042 446453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, frame 4 < 1311381048 537933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use bt to see a list of frame numbers < 1311381066 864435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: "Routine helps calm you down. Maybe you will talk to another friend. You talk to him every day for some reason. Though it's not exactly right to call him a friend, since you despise him. Your relationship with the fellow is difficult to describe. It should be noted that in troll language, the word for friend is exactly the same as the word for enemy." < 1311381073 403311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, it's "enemy", not "victim". < 1311381077 243397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My tiny memory strikes again. < 1311381081 432641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: My memory is not quite tiny.) < 1311381082 781965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks < 1311381086 712238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't there "frame up" or something? < 1311381095 713446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, nope < 1311381097 699548 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well. The sentiment is on point, at least < 1311381122 516095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case you use the word of troll language in case you need a new word since the normal English word not exactly right, maybe. < 1311381139 646541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) print block_info[block] < 1311381139 844733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$2 = {name = 0x0, type = AIR, trait = NO_TRAIT} < 1311381141 192492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311381141 608927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311381148 568995 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wat < 1311381181 298154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's a block that doesn't exist < 1311381191 739784 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, derp. I was about to complain that routing calming the guy down makes no sense, but I was mistaken as to who that applied < 1311381197 955366 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right. < 1311381217 783722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: good sgeo memory two thousand and eleven < 1311381224 404178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:32:44 [DIED] Failed to open file '/home/elliott/.mcmap/colors': No such file or directory < 1311381230 179044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, i probably shouldn't require it to exist < 1311381244 420684 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets some burger-n-ds9
< 1311381314 135139 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first part is watching unrar for 21 seconds, really boring) < 1311381338 12563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_FILE_ERROR_EXIST < 1311381338 290793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operation not permitted; only the owner of the file (or other resource) or processes with special privileges can perform the operation. < 1311381338 488601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_FILE_ERROR_NOENT < 1311381338 488787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such file or directory. This is a "file doesn't exist" error for ordinary files that are referenced in contexts where they are expected to already exist. < 1311381343 62930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EEXIST is a good name for that < 1311381347 228916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's EEXIST, right?) < 1311381365 585576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: then the second part is DS9 and it's even more boring :DDDDDDDdddddd oh snap < 1311381370 913824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]OH SNAP < 1311381378 680540 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : G_FILE_ERROR_EXIST < 1311381378 878452 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Operation not permitted; only the owner of the file (or other resource) or processes with special privileges can perform the operation. < 1311381385 325708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because DS9 has a plot, an attribute not shared with the entire rest of star trek < 1311381387 104163 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why... call it G_FILE_ERROR_EXIST? < 1311381393 493414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thus my lol < 1311381401 232020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its from unix wow what the fuck happened to the map < 1311381404 609106 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: both your statements are tainted by truth < 1311381410 652615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:36:36 MODE: surface긒澖缀è긒澖缀`跈Ā < 1311381412 343022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did i do < 1311381417 193413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i asian < 1311381422 597356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i broke mcmap help < 1311381436 370328 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I'm really looking forward for this "plot" you speak of < 1311381448 266664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how many episodes in are you??? DS9 is great < 1311381456 716533 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 10 or something < 1311381461 517507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming you meant you haven't seen plot yet < 1311381463 578232 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :season 1 ish < 1311381465 942800 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked TNG and Voyager, and DS9 is quite acceptable < 1311381469 750768 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd comment, but my opinions tend to be random relative to consensus < 1311381470 428657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: ...wow < 1311381474 242001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: You're the worst person < 1311381477 204085 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311381477 654847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm removing you from the whitelist now < 1311381481 835179 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUUU < 1311381482 410031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think I'm joking < 1311381491 50284 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG really had no plot at all, and for the most part that was a good thing < 1311381493 514134 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries and drinks
< 1311381499 771139 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Exactly < 1311381518 232120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I'm offended by your liking of Voyager, not your ambivalence to DS9 < 1311381521 669196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really watch Star Trek enough to be able to tell one series from another < 1311381522 699031 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'll never get ops now. Your abusive nature is revealed < 1311381523 234573 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott very quickly abuses power < 1311381532 508393 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I only watched six episodes of Voyager < 1311381534 902585 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :enterprise is currently my reference to startrek-with-plot < 1311381539 159576 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they were just six decent ones < 1311381542 23499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: OK yeah, stop saying that Voyager is an acceptable thing. < 1311381543 353275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no idea. < 1311381556 75639 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, all right, then < 1311381562 934121 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can we at least agree that the Voyager theme is good? < 1311381569 340962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when I watched it I was too young to know good from bad, at least wrt Star Trek < 1311381571 648048 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lol < 1311381572 481738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a bit boooooooooooooring. < 1311381573 735892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have only your word to go on < 1311381581 30712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is DS9's, but it's the nicer of the two boring Star Trek themes < 1311381587 660651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Literally everyone hates Voyager :P < 1311381588 216423 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think Enterprise hurt me a little. I couldn't watch past the third episode < 1311381589 604934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from Sgeo. < 1311381599 347573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Through a Mirror, Darkly is the only good Enterprise < 1311381607 442410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO ITS INTRO HAVE WE RAVED ABOUT ITS INTRO ENOUGH IN THIS CHANNEL YET < 1311381608 415296 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to look it up < 1311381643 616858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl5zw6fGjdA is the cool intro to In a Mirror, Darkly < 1311381662 871936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They took all the exploration scenes from the normal intro and turned them into the far superior Earth-blowing-shit-up scenes < 1311381664 424561 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat < 1311381752 380047 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was pretty cool. The music's kinda bland, though < 1311381755 291003 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blandly epic < 1311381758 713573 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEAT < 1311381775 13805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what the hell happened to this... < 1311381784 392476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (mode == MAP_MODE_CROSS && map_flags & MAP_FLAG_FOLLOW_Y ? " (follow)" : ""), < 1311381784 591072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (mode == MAP_MODE_SURFACE && map_flags & MAP_FLAG_CHOP ? " (chop)" : ""), < 1311381784 591267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (map_flags & MAP_FLAG_LIGHTS ? " (lights)" : ""), < 1311381784 591378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((map_flags & MAP_FLAG_LIGHTS) && (map_flags & MAP_FLAG_NIGHT) ? " (night)" : "")); < 1311381789 983155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can any of that be 긒澖缀è긒澖缀`跈Ā? < 1311381800 295094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Have you seen the normal Enterprise music. < 1311381802 543744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything is better than it. < 1311381804 385243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally anything. < 1311381810 832717 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus. < 1311381814 417865 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take your word for it < 1311381827 679919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPn-lTytfGo Enjoy terrible pop song < 1311381839 968471 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHHHHHHHHHHHHH < 1311381845 379298 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the actual intro? < 1311381847 353747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you tried encoding the garbage string as UTF-16, then decoding it as UTF-8? < 1311381858 762772 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK < 1311381861 745200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Yep. < 1311381865 561440 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T EVEN < 1311381868 64460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how it looks like a bad redub by someone on YouTube < 1311381873 588278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, I'm mostly trying to figure how I broke a piece of code I didn't even otuch < 1311381874 554472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch < 1311381891 13796 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top comment on that video: Hey Im kinda new to the Star Trek franchise just bought the original series on dvd watching it tonight. Now which series has Wil Wheaton in it. < 1311381894 62421 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rolfchoppa007 1 day ago < 1311381900 270222 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trolololol < 1311381900 661014 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311381918 703850 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it has messy format strings? < 1311381925 594596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Wil Wheaton has about the same number of likers as Wesley Crusher has haters < 1311381935 969533 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, buffer overflows? < 1311381945 616350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but i didnt tucho that biteof code < 1311381974 456980 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then maybe buffer overflows. < 1311381976 985684 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wil Wheaton is a pretty nice guy, and Wesley Crusher is a terrible character. Simple. :) < 1311382005 266485 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1311382049 868119 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I support the Wesley Crushers. < 1311382063 648473 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm watching Troll 2 < 1311382074 237623 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS MESSAGE) < 1311382097 863460 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really get that though, wesley crusher was a likable geniusishy character, but all I've seen of wil wheaton is the big bang theory making him seem like a dick < 1311382108 581446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does use valgrind < 1311382113 432965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wesley crusher was not likeable??? < 1311382113 988992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for what? < 1311382115 101195 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Shh, you'll get us all killed < 1311382126 1216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for checking for memory access errors, just write valgrind before the command name < 1311382128 242785 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am saying he was < 1311382134 208380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was the accidental archetype of "smart but REALLY ANNOYING DICK" < 1311382146 302350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his smartness was just annoying because it made no sense at all < 1311382151 376642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: find memory corrupt < 1311382153 520355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okays < 1311382156 708662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, valgrind command < 1311382159 712804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if i'm smart enough for this but HERE WE GO < 1311382160 700729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding corruption is its default setting < 1311382166 292031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also dunno if it'll like SDL < 1311382167 997990 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: People get annoyed at Mary Sue wunderkind. < 1311382185 983013 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has become Sheldon's nemesis. But we sympathize with Sheldon. < 1311382214 531329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I think the actor who played Wesley Crusher is on record as saying that he hated Wesley Crusher too < 1311382218 517710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never watched big bang theory but isn't sheldon meant to be a total jerk too < 1311382224 220346 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, Wil Wheaton is on record saying that. < 1311382226 332452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters are not likeable just because they're intelligent < 1311382228 70 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1311382237 876494 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MEAN I'M DRUNK? < 1311382239 775676 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He's autistic taken up to 11. < 1311382247 36482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what, bad packet id < 1311382249 286937 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FEEL STRANGE, BUT ALSO GOOD! < 1311382251 418761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft why do you hate me < 1311382266 10636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what i broke < 1311382268 448047 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: No. You mean *I'm* drunk? I don't think I am drunk either. < 1311382271 142254 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't have your characters announce how they're feeling. THAT MAKES ME FEEL ANGRY! < 1311382311 665962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/mcmap$ valgrind hello let's be friends < 1311382311 864249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1311382314 197795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: help what do i tell valgrind < 1311382318 595439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants to know something < 1311382321 195175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is > prompt... < 1311382331 163036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: valgrind doesn't take input < 1311382334 666641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just outputs to stderr < 1311382335 447528 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid elliott doesn't identify with intelligent unlikable characters on tv < 1311382338 341827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously hello is asking for inputs < 1311382339 528716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why is it asking me :((((((((((((( < 1311382339 807374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*input < 1311382349 768824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, should i say hello to hello??? < 1311382357 747129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's the shell < 1311382360 488204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an unmatched ' < 1311382361 667128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ==3150== Thread 3: < 1311382361 865057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==3150== Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s) < 1311382361 865226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==3150== at 0x57BBE40: inflateReset2 (in /lib/libz.so.1.2.3.4) < 1311382361 865325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==3150== by 0x57BBF2F: inflateInit2_ (in /lib/libz.so.1.2.3.4) < 1311382361 865423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==3150== by 0x40A47B: world_thread (in /home/elliott/Code/mcmap/build/mcmap) < 1311382362 222946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I don't even want to know < 1311382368 82825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know :P < 1311382390 680847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I don't have hello installed < 1311382436 762718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck? it looks like the only memory badness is in the lines i didn't touch < 1311382440 907715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that don't access any values i touched < 1311382481 626785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minecraft may be off-topic here, but mcmap isn't!) < 1311382722 282035 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS STRAW HAS NO BENDY-END < 1311382725 989925 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when the Motorola Razr was a nice phone? < 1311382747 117869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311382753 908758 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bendy is the best part of straws :( < 1311382764 660518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, the NY Times is running a story about /Dwarf Fortress/? < 1311382770 586462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :( < 1311382771 451492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this for real < 1311382775 431709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/magazine/the-brilliance-of-dwarf-fortress.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all < 1311382776 506673 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well, this straw DOES NOT HAVE IT < 1311382777 750020 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Link? < 1311382779 408082 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1311382791 244853 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madness < 1311382796 872824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i die and end up in heaven < 1311382805 72651 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely not < 1311382821 219035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, you're still here < 1311382825 381519 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lack of bendiness is located to the straw < 1311382853 127271 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: monqy: stop it. we don't want straw arguments here. < 1311382857 735677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311382861 795303 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311382865 370384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're such a straw man, oerjan < 1311382877 465366 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if my straw had bendies I could build a strawman < 1311382884 793671 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF ONLY < 1311382915 735499 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311382921 310380 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do.... Dwarf eat-- < 1311382922 966888 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :In NyTimes!? < 1311382950 906810 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: your questions are irrelevant in this crisis < 1311382961 915130 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now read the "level20" D&D recording file. < 1311382966 489223 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1311382968 433328 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the straw that broke olsner < 1311382972 221755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The only furniture in the small dining room is Scamps’s litter box." < 1311382975 320249 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: the straw, the bendy, it lacks it < 1311382981 254043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good reporting < 1311382988 311952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: hi, can you fix mcmap, < 1311382988 950611 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be some things I have missed and I will ask my brother and the DM. But other errors such as grammatical or whatever, you can tell me now. < 1311382995 266149 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, NO! < 1311382997 183285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If much of Tarn’s apartment suggests a tenant who never fully moved in, his bedroom suggests a tenant who never sets a sock outdoors." < 1311383006 416384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tarn wakes up around 3 p.m. every day, codes through the night and goes to bed around 6 a.m." < 1311383011 570519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg i am the tarn, its me < 1311383023 396358 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tarn Hird < 1311383037 124387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think tarn's a republican though so :( < 1311383044 629478 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hird Derp < 1311383050 454347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i would never make a game as boring as dwarf fortress < 1311383071 504003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tarn consumed “maybe one glass” of water in the last three months, hydrating with soft drinks instead. “Water’s not doing it for me these days,” he said. “I know it’s bad, but the sugar goes right into programming the game. If I don’t drink soda now, I get a headache and can’t do any work.”" < 1311383076 112526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they made this article just to laugh at him < 1311383077 501872 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't make Dwarf Fortress, please. < 1311383122 326128 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nonsense! < 1311383129 231824 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the standard all programmers must aspire to. < 1311383145 399956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Tarn was pleased. “The hippos like the sewers!” he said. He took a celebratory swig of Dr. Pepper and rocked back and forth. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1311383165 31581 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is some property of soda which makes it less painful on sensitive gums. < 1311383195 638256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably all that acid < 1311383198 670939 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the fizziness, or the acidity? :P < 1311383202 64512 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know its ironic < 1311383203 225757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hifive < 1311383208 178584 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wooo < 1311383226 473646 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but water tends to irritate my gums < 1311383230 736786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know, this Tarn character sounds like someone from that story about the search for the Point < 1311383234 409319 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i have some serious gum problems < 1311383242 930061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: search for the what now? < 1311383249 343082 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly < 1311383254 391234 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be the salt < 1311383256 759195 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1311383267 220471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The issue wasn’t aptitude so much as passion. He wanted to do math but also to make video games, a juggling act he managed as an undergraduate. This had become impossible. “They wanted 60 hours a week from you, giving you problems that would take 20 hours to solve,” he said. He grew depressed and, in his only encounter with drugs, snorted meth." < 1311383273 764902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the silliest article < 1311383277 513648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, was it a search? I just recall something with "the Point" < 1311383285 264001 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know... all the fizz and acids makes it possible for them to add salt to the soda < 1311383287 352351 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Agreed < 1311383298 884129 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meth is so passé < 1311383313 414784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the real bedroom programmers snort pure liquified scheme < 1311383314 468583 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :23mg of sodium per 250ml in my current soda < 1311383350 226751 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :question is, how much sodium in water. and would i taste 23mg of sodium in 250ml of water < 1311383377 207702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: never leave us ok < 1311383405 393898 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played Dwarf Fortress for 20 minutes before becoming a mix of bored and disillusioned < 1311383411 316627 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm too tall for it < 1311383426 335191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwarf fortress is great, it's just not a game < 1311383441 26410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a scientific measuring and probing tool for a universe that doesn't exist < 1311383441 256435 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't necessarily want games. < 1311383455 849862 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is super mario bros a game? < 1311383470 388289 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is a video game. < 1311383472 751879 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: at least one yes < 1311383476 699667 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spend most of my time modelling and probing things that don't exist. I don't need that in a game < 1311383490 82412 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is making an avatar jump onto a floating brick a game? < 1311383491 686068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :super mario brothers is a game, yes :P < 1311383493 629405 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could get into dwarf fortress < 1311383501 178883 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like the kind of game i would like < 1311383503 208090 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311383503 406104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: get into elliottcraft instead < 1311383505 977968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: No, that is just an idea. < 1311383507 100957 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind of more than a game i would like < 1311383509 514841 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottcraft???? < 1311383523 844762 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. in super mario bros, you do that just within the context of a game < 1311383524 43145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes i play minecraft, but it is a bad game, so i am making a totally different game and calling it a better minecraft < 1311383526 651681 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. uhh < 1311383527 989671 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's minecraft, except that you're elliott < 1311383529 10027 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha hahaha hahaa < 1311383533 299722 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a niche community < 1311383538 161476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dwarf fortress-level detail and depth, but minecraft-style graphics and infinite world < 1311383547 238859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus you control a player rather than dwarves (although there are AIs in the world) < 1311383547 719374 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds neato < 1311383549 872483 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :super mario bros is about jumping on blocks with a time limit < 1311383554 705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what the goal is yet :< < 1311383564 559184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, infinite in all directions unlike minecraft!! < 1311383568 336340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minecraft has a height limit) < 1311383570 102332 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: And running to the right < 1311383575 301033 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1311383575 593765 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Well, it is about reaching the end of each level, I think < 1311383584 154155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the goal, at least. < 1311383584 352129 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i study these things. < 1311383589 65866 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Lazily generated, one hopes < 1311383594 623649 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :by study i mean i look at websites < 1311383595 9654 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Und jetzt: schalafen werden würden werden sein... Ja? < 1311383605 830223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: yes :P < 1311383620 963727 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally shigeru said.. each level should take about 60 seconds < 1311383624 85209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also competently coded multiplayer??? unlike minecraft's which is so bad you have no idea < 1311383629 991310 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I mean if you have a real UTM you could do it strictly :D < 1311383639 114466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: utms can't do infinite computation in finite time, sorry no < 1311383643 313136 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people said.. oh no. thats a lot of screens that have to be created per level if it is scrolling for a whole minute < 1311383643 952393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311383653 454774 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time i played minecraft < 1311383655 273801 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i uh < 1311383657 652627 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then shigeru said.. but there will be things on the way to slow them down < 1311383658 526577 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a long time ago < 1311383664 863477 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJsPoI2w6-A < 1311383668 695939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: back when it was a java applet? < 1311383671 115585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you had infinite of all blocks < 1311383674 833588 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311383685 615802 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not a java applet anymore? < 1311383692 650606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well it's java, but nobody plays it in the applet form any more < 1311383699 699335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it costs money, but not much < 1311383705 355397 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :money :( < 1311383707 296038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the beta is actually a fun game. the coding is so bad you have no idea, but it is actually fun. < 1311383712 419633 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even *I* bought it, and I steal everything < 1311383723 687510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: 21 dollars, it seems < 1311383729 338928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was half that when i bought it during alpha :P < 1311383731 392658 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION had an MRI scan the other week, btw: there should be nothing to worry about - because if there were I hope they would've told me by now
< 1311383741 387908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and will double again when it hits final) < 1311383748 810135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: worry? I was just getting excited :( < 1311383750 273845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not true) < 1311383756 929210 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. super mario game is all about reaching the end of the level within a time limit < 1311383761 637053 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 dollars minecraft? < 1311383764 858681 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: MRI scans are more noisy than exciting < 1311383765 56542 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouche < 1311383771 773587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well, it's a lot bigger game now :P < 1311383775 734624 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1311383783 755587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: aren't new games like sixty dollars anyway < 1311383786 349207 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I better not have to buy it again < 1311383789 588327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: no < 1311383795 313434 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good < 1311383797 62430 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i dont buy games i have no idea < 1311383821 727455 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: otoh, why would you ever worry about my "insignificant" existence < 1311383833 963951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: minecraft is good to buy because it gives you two good things to do: < 1311383836 374024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: - complain about minecraft < 1311383836 979720 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: We are all insignificant < 1311383838 715697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: - play it and enjoy it < 1311383853 455022 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: the nihilist doubly so < 1311383861 308226 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. < 1311383862 493689 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1311383865 220950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also you get to play with us :{ < 1311383868 802511 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311383871 591532 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nash failed to create a "video game theory" < 1311383874 188908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a happy :{ < 1311383878 794252 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311383881 175536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Nash failed to create a "video game theory" < 1311383881 591850 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a sad :{ < 1311383882 309973 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :539) Nash failed to create a "video game theory" < 1311383882 857483 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or he didn't try :P < 1311383884 511265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: :{ < 1311383893 12323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 539 < 1311383894 261947 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1311383897 289646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. Nash failed to create a "video game theory" < 1311383898 339921 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :539) Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. Nash failed to create a "video game theory" < 1311383950 267160 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does M. Bison roll? < 1311384021 762965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :“I don’t mind the idea of never having kids,” he said. “I want to stay focused on the game, and if I had kids, I’d wind up paying attention to them instead.” < 1311384038 356755 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I don't think Bison has a roll attack < 1311384053 307883 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This article has to be a troll < 1311384063 537499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311384072 237567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why its awesome (its obviously trying to paint him as a "weird" person but who cares) < 1311384092 389511 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vega and Blanka, OTOH... < 1311384109 675140 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE A BAWWWSS! < 1311384113 726883 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i < 1311384125 807124 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a bawwwss < 1311384127 951402 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cut and pasted someone elses spelling < 1311384142 410255 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it mine < 1311384167 140710 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i uh < 1311384169 26725 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bawwss < 1311384171 612255 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1311384173 22258 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1311384177 790508 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was gonna say Bowser from mario... but couldn't think of a name which would click instantly < 1311384188 747541 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since some call him King Koopa < 1311384206 470020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow he makes a lot from donations < 1311384209 618454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not that much < 1311384211 630846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for donations... < 1311384212 310105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot < 1311384247 804009 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tarn, 33, lives" < 1311384248 710615 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a bowser from mario < 1311384251 409566 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In bold, for no reason < 1311384257 384387 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311384261 197591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, in the only moment I heard him speak with anything like bitterness, Tarn called Minecraft a “depressing distillation of our own stuff.” < 1311384273 264916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: it's a section break < 1311384286 455867 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's not a very convincing one < 1311384329 280201 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311384329 684857 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the only reason I want Minecraft is the polish. Gameplay polish and also the abundance of NPCs < 1311384358 500973 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coincidentally, those are the two major lacking features of Minecraft! < 1311384362 39878 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -- since my brain can think up such things... I dare say < 1311384363 978470 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'As Tarn got into the zone, his muttered profanities and grumbles about “x distances”' < 1311384372 281592 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if that's some absurd nerdspeak < 1311384375 220000 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terraria is Lemmings with NPCs. < 1311384385 859933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont control a character in Terraria < 1311384395 4762 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.. I haven't played it. < 1311384409 614074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really control a character in Lemmings either < 1311384413 914460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1311384416 245421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you control a character in Terraria < 1311384418 47827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1311384421 258256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont control a character in Lemmings < 1311384430 820701 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just a demigod in Lemmings. < 1311384434 217939 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just uh.. hit on a cool idea didn't i? < 1311384437 28157 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :NPCs in lemmings < 1311384447 872150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :terraria is basically minecraft + rpg < 1311384448 69696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemmings vs zombies < 1311384448 627716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really a cool idea? < 1311384460 17502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you're more of a tactical advisor who tells them when to turn into walls and when to explode < 1311384464 306970 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it has been done < 1311384470 726894 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going with demigod. < 1311384499 553113 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :on bing: That�s an urban legend. However, in the very excellent video game Lemmings, they do. Now that�s a great idea for a video game: Lemmings vs Zombies. < 1311384512 635023 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying < 1311384512 832948 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Demi" because you're not *that* powerful, "god" because thou art greatly seeing and greatly knowing. < 1311384540 690562 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can I be one of the play testers for Zombies vs. Lemmings? And will there be a sequel game with zombie lemmings?" < 1311384543 997663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lemmings with npcs actually sounds interesting < 1311384545 349958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although very hard < 1311384554 167459 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/this-isnt-going-away/ < 1311384564 121499 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I always thought a demigod was just someone in charge of the espresso machine < 1311384565 501127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on what the NPCs do, and interact with the game < 1311384570 510901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"obamaconspiracy.org" < 1311384577 941944 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know.. im serious though < 1311384582 529517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's against obama conspiracies < 1311384587 264652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not at all surprised that the website exists < 1311384609 605693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was worried it would be a collection of conspiracies about Obama in /favour/ of them < 1311384627 70150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION becomes the Tarn, tries to figure out what's up with this code
< 1311384643 448539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1311384713 108768 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-175-60.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311384713 306933 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-175-60.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Client Quit < 1311384716 819048 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are those who tell us that any choice from among theoretically-equivalent alternatives is merely a question of taste. These are the people who bring up the Strong Church Turing Thesis in discussions of programming languages meant for use by humans. They are malicious idiots. The only punishment which could stand a chance at reforming these miscreants into decent people would be a year or two at hard labor. And not just any kind of < 1311384717 16959 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard labor: specifically, carrying out long division using Roman numerals. A merciful tyrant would give these wretches the option of a firing squad. Those among these criminals against mathematics who prove unrepentant in their final hours would be asked to prove the Turing-equivalence of a spoon to a shovel as they dig their graves." < 1311384750 416073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :source < 1311384751 72267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311384777 144575 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.loper-os.org/?p=448 < 1311384798 556022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do birthers believe what they do? It turns out that one factor in whether someone mistakenly considers random patterns to be something significant has to do with dopamine levels in their brains — the more dopamine, the more belief. Dopamine is part of the brain’s reward system. I was just reading about this today in Michael Shermer’s book, The Believing Brain." < 1311384803 149277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this blog sure is fishing for posts < 1311384816 591770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh, another loper post < 1311384857 683965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: re turing-equivalence: right point, annoying delivery, as always with loper-os < 1311384864 936048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the times it's wrong point, annoying delivery < 1311384880 474626 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it's hilarious delivery *shrug* < 1311384894 406398 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link to wrong point? < 1311384899 341356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur joking right < 1311384907 919838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think rage is funny < 1311384909 324773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you say this huge blog is wrong sometimes?? PROVE IT WITH A LINK" < 1311384919 243074 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1311384923 929544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yeah, now try reading every loper post and not getting sick of him and wanting him to shut the fuck up < 1311384928 902829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but here's a wrong point: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=428 < 1311384944 280859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a stupid point: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=405 < 1311384959 338503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a stupid point: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=374 < 1311384960 996758 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, the Turing thesis really *does* imply that the choice of language is "merely" one of taste. < 1311384977 666900 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, then, the same is true whenever you have a selection of tools theoretically capable of a given task. < 1311384989 798628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not the turing thesis ffs < 1311384994 235009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :church-turing thesis is a different thing < 1311385001 126370 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if your choice is between a spoon and a bulldozer. < 1311385022 843123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lol -- see that project cosa stanislav linked to? < 1311385027 667948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the guy behind that thing's blog: < 1311385036 432420 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think a bulldozer will help me eat this soupe < 1311385037 402054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Surprising Source of My Knowledge about the Brain < 1311385037 599756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abstract < 1311385037 599927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my recent article on the flaws in Numenta's memory model, I made several claims about how the brain processes sensory signals. I now reveal the source of my knowledge as promised. Those of you who have followed my work over the years will not be surprised by what I am about to say. As always, it is up to you to take it or leave it. < 1311385037 600031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1311385038 375349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Source < 1311385040 376551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The source of my knowledge is a couple of occult symbolic texts found in the Bible. < 1311385041 882909 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the link, didn't click it < 1311385042 300502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/2011/06/surprising-source-of-my-knowledge-about.html < 1311385044 323412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1311385047 608211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thinker < 1311385056 192381 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is, of course, that we have people convinced that a teaspoon is a good tool for digging a tunnel. < 1311385077 786003 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone think bulldozeres are good for soupes < 1311385084 694672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes me < 1311385088 486961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have very big soups < 1311385093 117477 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Well, the XML crowd seems to think that. < 1311385100 515549 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmh < 1311385104 399266 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except instead of a bulldozer it's more a Death Star. < 1311385131 872995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Neither Newton's gravity equation nor the equations of General Relativity explain why things fall. But what better way is there to hide one's cluelessness while presenting a façade of erudition than to use obscure equations to erect an impregnable mountain of obfuscation? Voodoo science is guru science." < 1311385133 23107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this guy < 1311385144 170428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Examples of voodoo science masquerading as legitimate science are all around us: time travel, wormholes, black holes, dimensions curled up into little balls so tiny as to be undetectable, parallel universes, continuum physics, quantum computing, symbolic intelligence, machine consciousness, etc... It is all worthless crackpottery." < 1311385156 870783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Spacetime is a fictitious math construct, famous physicists are clueless about time, time dilation is a misnomer and time travel is crackpottery) < 1311385157 148891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Aristotle was right about the causality of motion and, as a result, we are immersed in an immense lattice of energetic particles) < 1311385166 522018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gravity is an energy conservation phenomenon. It is both instantaneous and nonlocal) < 1311385166 719746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Intelligence is mostly about the temporal correlations between discrete sensory signals) < 1311385170 811905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna hug this guy < 1311385183 938930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Artificial Intelligence From the Bible! < 1311385184 137192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :June 21, 2011 < 1311385184 137365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to recent dramatic progress in my research, this article has been deleted. My old interpretation of the scriptural metaphors was partially in error. I am working on a new series of articles on the subject. In the meantime, I encourage my readers to read Rebel Science News for the latest. < 1311385198 397019 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead < 1311385201 212192 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotting < 1311385201 629406 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so we can < 1311385207 456231 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see when he makes mistakes < 1311385214 394701 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Erm, as in, in his predictons) < 1311385217 435343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :predictions < 1311385235 410764 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm sure he'll call any falsifications "voodoo science" < 1311385252 862495 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partially in error < 1311385255 450255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im torn between wanting to read the cosa paper and not wanting to because this guy man < 1311385318 58488 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cosa? < 1311385341 53142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this guy's dataflow software/os/language proposal which seems to be much saner than his other stuff < 1311385345 489748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stanislav linked to < 1311385375 609931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHH i know whats wrong < 1311385560 586959 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, you should never use ketchup with filet mignon < 1311385626 839035 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you advise < 1311385628 935228 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for use with < 1311385631 686400 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :filet mignon < 1311385689 206783 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like béarnaise sauce < 1311385715 325628 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leave it alone < 1311385730 234919 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh or pepper sauce < 1311385730 432804 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just eat it, and enjoy < 1311385804 460800 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've had bearnaise sauce one time it was good pepper sauce is good too i forget if i've ever had filet mignon < 1311385808 235424 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait that doesn't mean the same thing as "peppersaus" < 1311385830 369289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thats a completely different thing obviously < 1311385831 910334 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually kind of like this: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=428 < 1311385876 669416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stupid point < 1311385884 21632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the context of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=288 < 1311385893 490663 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1311385919 143703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also his response to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=288&cpage=1#comment-1283 < 1311385924 537538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amusing but wrong and stupid < 1311385974 990589 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, crazy people < 1311386005 52701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :loper is full of good ideas written by an annoying person with a too-big ego < 1311386017 962509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE I MENTIONED THAT TUNES IS GREAT < 1311386019 621391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT @ IS BETTER < 1311386040 957123 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the english word implies chili pepper, the norwegian word implies black pepper (or similar) < 1311386067 235461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the thing common between them is that neither are currently usable < 1311386077 724191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "pepper sauce" refers to black pepper in British English too < 1311386079 703303 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks
< 1311386082 64314 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311386086 718682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh -- < 1311386088 171895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TUNES started in 1992-95 as an operating system project, but was never clearly defined, and it succumbed to design-by-committee syndrome and gradually failed." < 1311386090 82754 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pepper sauce" just sounds bizarre in American English. < 1311386092 36891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TUNES is now officially over < 1311386101 321134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of April, it seems < 1311386103 986841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is clog still here? < 1311386106 365997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP TUNES < 1311386108 661888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: say it < 1311386112 717314 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i uh < 1311386120 908590 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading now < 1311386121 742992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the website isn't down, it's just officially abandoned; and besides, clog is a bespin service, not a tunes one < 1311386126 60713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, fair enough < 1311386127 133194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just use the wrong url because everyone does and it's prettier < 1311386130 622499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wait you don't know of tunes? < 1311386139 703262 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sauce from chili peppers would be "hot sauce", and you can make a black pepper sauce? < 1311386141 318622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only do because of clog < 1311386148 801857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you can make a source from black pepper < 1311386154 92489 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unununium is also dead < 1311386155 590943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other ingredients too < 1311386159 274147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /just/ black pepper, obviously < 1311386164 889796 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, obviously. < 1311386165 526257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: every programmer should know about TUNES, I think < 1311386184 979601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in your opinion, lots of people should know about all sorts of things I don't know about < 1311386187 92695 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, seriously, that seems like a strange sauce basis. < 1311386189 174123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd give an example except I can't < 1311386189 451247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they don't keep assuming Unix and Windows are the only ways to do computers, or anywhere near the best way < 1311386196 927347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even an acceptable way < 1311386204 815446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't assume UNIX/Windows are the only way to do things at all, though < 1311386211 220002 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at the end of the game Like a bauss < 1311386220 744391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's put it this way: @ doesn't sound like much new to anyone who knows about TUNES < 1311386224 707027 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a bauss is it like a bawwwss ;___________________; < 1311386225 522473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIX is like the BF of operating systems; people who try to design operating systems normally end up designing crappy versions of it, but that doesn't mean it's the only way to do an OS < 1311386228 496021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hazard a guess that @ sounded new to you < 1311386246 586862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and @ is unlike OSes I know about, but the concepts aren't new to me < 1311386247 142088 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats windows < 1311386253 598884 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats @ < 1311386262 775361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: @ is the operating system you'll use in a few decades... maybe. < 1311386264 418694 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hm i went by wikipedia, where "pepper sauce" redirects to "hot sauce", which has both terms and chili sauce bolded < 1311386275 870809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1311386276 859007 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Pepper sauce" still sounds bizarre. < 1311386282 258284 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: googleing for @ doesnt work he;lp[ < 1311386282 630970 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NisCkxU544c < 1311386286 471493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like to think @ will be interesting enough to surprise you when it actually exists < 1311386286 669649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"chili sauce" would be the usual name in the UK < 1311386292 327177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: @ is my ultimate NIH project < 1311386295 535367 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Modern Windows is, IMO, in the same OS family as UNIX. < 1311386302 644872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, "chilli" I think in British English < 1311386313 47681 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: zepto < 1311386313 326211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I agree too, although it's a very bad example of it < 1311386313 524079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I decided that software was fundamentally broken < 1311386314 16006 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's 2008 now. If a few dedidated hackers can find the time and money to put some sustained effort into it, we could have a working prototype by 2010, with widespread use by 2015 or 2020. < 1311386314 294251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311386318 433750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No argument. < 1311386339 578310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so i tossed everything out, and started designing a new software environment ("operating system is inaccurate"; @ has no distinction between the OS and everything running "on top" of it) < 1311386347 418127 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes something in the same OS family as UNIX? < 1311386349 146269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including language, from scratch < 1311386354 109717 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files in a heirarchy? < 1311386363 643462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that would make DOS a UNIX < 1311386373 12513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not DOS 1 < 1311386379 288957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't have directories < 1311386386 580860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it spent the rest of its life gradually stealing UNIX concepts < 1311386395 245052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you may peruse http://catseye.tc/ehird/files-suck.html but only in the knowledge that it's old and whiny, and only summarises one aspect of @ (and fairly vaguely at that) < 1311386407 221034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that end up on catseye? < 1311386415 647624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised you wrote that, but I am surprised at where it's hosted < 1311386417 594578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had no hosting at the time and asked cpressey on IRC, and he said sure < 1311386425 342626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was last year < 1311386431 400156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fifteen months ago < 1311386450 463155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah that's formatted badly, far too narrow < 1311386466 990908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's only about 3 ems too narrow < 1311386471 361758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, in fact < 1311386473 336713 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160062.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311386487 562138 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The primary feature is having the prime data structure being a hierarchy of blobs of bytes, with a little bit of metadata. Combine with a C ABI and system calls as the basic ABI, and multitasking, and you have a vaguely UNIX-like OS. < 1311386491 440136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ten words per line/sixty-six characters per line is the widely-agreed-upon ideal that presumably has some research backing it up, and that's 33 ems) < 1311386492 139557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, you're the first person who actually made me open up Firebug and edit the CSS < 1311386495 640661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it three times the width < 1311386509 451091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, I'd prefer it to go margin to margin < 1311386529 467823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1311386531 563520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now wouldn't it be nice if browsers didn't make lousy document viewers, and you could have done that without resorting to such things? < 1311386533 919905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, like @. < 1311386537 7575 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes, the memory/disk dichotomy is big. < 1311386542 963903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also think your eyes are broken, but oh well) < 1311386612 561860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can think of some counterpoints to things in that files article < 1311386637 879428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: go on, although I'll probably disagree with them < 1311386638 157488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, it's often useful to be able to change the representation of something on disk, and if you abstract away from that, there's no way to do so < 1311386646 267598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes there is < 1311386650 880590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it/ < 1311386651 315526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even address that in the article < 1311386674 548193 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you fuckers stop talking so fast? I'm still reading the scrollback for context :D < 1311386687 667941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no you don't, unless I missed where you addressed it < 1311386700 718368 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311386704 642406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tl;dr current @ design is that any "entity" (/object/whatever) can override its own saving and storing, but most of the time you'll want to just use a pre-written transformer like a compressor, since you must ensure to always save and restore _all_ of the state < 1311386708 709039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "You don’t have to give up the compactness of formats like PNG, either: you can store that as a byte array in memory, and have it as the pluggable “backing storage” of some abstract image type. That way, all images are accessed in the same way (although possibly with different operations depending on the characteristics of the backing storage) regardless of the underlying compressed stora < 1311386708 906911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ge. < 1311386708 907079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311386724 256599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a little vague and not the exact current design that I stated, but it still addresses it < 1311386730 949244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You could have overridable serialisation, so that e.g. a PNG-backed image is serialised as the compressed PNG, without any auxiliary data that can be generated when it is used." < 1311386735 49853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I suppose my question is as to how you're meant to change the backing storage < 1311386754 79135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: depends how you tell the operating system anything about an object < 1311386764 918343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every object could be responsible for its own serialisation/deserialisation, for instance < 1311386773 853319 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, elliott, last I was aware 100 characters/line was the new sort-of standardy ideal < 1311386777 105494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how does @ do naming objects? e.g. atm I can access /home/ais523/esoteric/intercal/git/intercal to get the latest C-INTERCAL source < 1311386777 383230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could pull in GzipSerialiser < 1311386784 2568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: nah, the sources for that seem rubbish < 1311386786 830765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously that doesn't have to be done with a hierarchical filename < 1311386791 322277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm wondering what specifically replaces it < 1311386803 45181 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's metadata. < 1311386807 67842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hey < 1311386813 47285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get to answer questions about @ :p < 1311386817 102181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you name the x coordinate of the first coordinate in a list of coordinates (say array) in C? < 1311386830 879969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in C, it depends on their internal representation < 1311386838 972882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: filesystem names are internal representations < 1311386842 377211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311386844 503618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, C was a bad choice < 1311386849 313136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is, array[0].x is a name too < 1311386859 316352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment, the filesystem representation, while internal, is the one that humans use to specify files < 1311386863 208287 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-229-218.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311386867 173945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but in @ the primary means of naming documents isn't by internal name < 1311386871 402147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking what @'s equivalent is, not because I don't think it exists, but because I'm curious as to what it is < 1311386882 318612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not so much an accusation as a question < 1311386887 431756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure exactly how you /do/, because I don't know what @'s UI looks like yet, other than it being very, very different from anything else < 1311386893 170614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311386899 160224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hipster UI? < 1311386913 754409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("I don't care what it is as long as it's different"?) < 1311386914 866900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but e.g. you might say "find|document|@ best os" and it would find you a document titled "Why @ is the Best OS" < 1311386920 877178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(prioritising title over text, etc.) < 1311386932 546434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I don't want to do any sort of search? < 1311386938 243532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "find|documents|older than april" < 1311386948 873946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Don't think of it as searching < 1311386951 888377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if I'm using @ to work on some more traditional software < 1311386954 494085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just think of it as naming an object < 1311386964 758296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I want exactly the same result every time, no matter what's happened in terms of creation of other objects meanwhile < 1311386968 837046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you want a precise name, you could take its object ID -- basically, like a pointer, but it's literally global < 1311386971 878148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's just a long hash) < 1311386974 452785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or deletion or changes of any objects other than the one I want < 1311386977 716231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then see above < 1311386979 245693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't remember hashes < 1311386982 855498 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use the ID numbers for the documents and whatever you want to find? < 1311386988 291188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: zooko's triangle < 1311386994 878380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right# < 1311387002 87155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311387011 353067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're ignoring the side of the triangle I most care about < 1311387015 298657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unix cheats by not having the decentralised or secure properties < 1311387015 992013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd much prefer you discarded one of the other two < 1311387016 878537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which side is that? < 1311387022 504072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Human-meaningful? < 1311387031 183943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solve that by having alternate ways to name objects, like I said < 1311387037 352221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, decentralised is the one I care least about < 1311387043 600347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine if I can only access stuff on my own computer < 1311387049 103600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's integral to @'s design < 1311387051 98953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better, in fact, as I'm typically not connected to a network < 1311387053 338038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's integral to @'s design < 1311387066 383231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case I probably won't use @, it's fundamentally incompatible with the way I work < 1311387069 28800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ makes no innate distinction between RAM and disk; it also makes no innate distinction between local and global < 1311387070 419210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It isn't < 1311387076 436967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could define a filesystem view of all your documents < 1311387081 385744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mangle the name and some other data to form its name < 1311387097 481704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hierarchical filesystems are far from perfect, but at least they're usable < 1311387099 598725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do anything you can do in Unix with @; it just wouldn't be /idiomatic/ < 1311387104 755812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fair enough < 1311387107 94538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just told you how to get a filesystem; you could make it hierarchical too < 1311387117 19264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could manage it manually by constructing a filesystem object yourself; basically just an associative map < 1311387127 143845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's @'s equivalent to UNIX "find" (i.e. get everything below a certain point in the hierarchy)? < 1311387127 421852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I find dismissing these things before actually using them to be unwise < 1311387133 473505 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so filesystems are not the fundamental things, but you can still make it up yourself to do like a filesystem? < 1311387147 142168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concepts don't translate at all well, which is why I asked < 1311387149 21311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There is no hierarchy. If you mean on a constructed filesystem, that's up to the API of the associative map < 1311387174 858181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, the distinction between local and global doesn't make local use more difficult < 1311387178 12156 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I certainly wouldn't know until I can see some parts of it that it can be done. < 1311387181 168777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]lack of distinction < 1311387183 732512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, I'm working on a program, and I want to find all instances of a certain identifier in all the source that makes up that program < 1311387189 250719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Note that distinctoins are made at the user-level < 1311387190 748763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm trying not to assume that the source is text-file-like here) < 1311387208 503339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, "program" is also an artificial distinction :) < 1311387210 815450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably I have to group all those files some way so I can equivalent-of-grep over just those < 1311387223 729546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, let's try "package", which is also an artifical distinction but one that's made deliberately for a reason < 1311387223 927711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But say you have a collection of that count as the structure of your program < 1311387237 403808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, fair enough < 1311387237 819835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "portion of all software that I'm responsible for maintaining" < 1311387241 252284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not arbitrary < 1311387241 450020 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How would you do that on an arbitrary data structure? < 1311387251 957572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: please, don't try and argue @ for me, it makes @ look bad :) < 1311387258 636839 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160096.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311387259 777751 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, then. < 1311387260 56062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for a completely arbitrary data structure, with no knowledge about its contents, I couldn't < 1311387278 888667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not the case even in @ < 1311387287 516358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I don't know how you'll actually phrase queries... because I don't know what @'s UI is yet (this also implies I don't know what its language is yet, because they're two sides of the same coin) < 1311387289 68807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But < 1311387319 62203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Things like functions will have a way to get at their underlying AST < 1311387329 160055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably < 1311387333 64240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe only in some context like a package < 1311387333 944138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1311387337 148395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To avoid breaking all sorts of parametricity < 1311387340 383758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just realised that Feather is the only sensible language to write this in < 1311387344 222851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, it isn't < 1311387347 99569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But seriously -- < 1311387353 161077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just said "Things like functions will have a way to get at their underlying AST" < 1311387357 754730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then contradicted it < 1311387364 231156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1311387366 622673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That breaks all sorts of properties, it's gross < 1311387374 598227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you might be able to get a function's source from its module, say < 1311387375 15512 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311387378 841830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1311387387 327845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume functions would be decompiled to get their source < 1311387393 816458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But anyway, tl;dr AST objects (if there is a concept like an AST??) will have a way to search for an identifier < 1311387394 511003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like comments would be part of the compiled version < 1311387398 713001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it would roundtrip < 1311387398 910772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's basically just a map over the project < 1311387413 218406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this is hopelessly vague, but your questions are all user-level, which is the least certain part of @ so far < 1311387429 480155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's because the system-level stuff, at least at the highest level, makes a lot of sense < 1311387429 897148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I do ask you don't dismiss it before it exists based on _these_ answers :) < 1311387485 989877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I can think of a moderate solution to the zooko's triangle problem; allow individual users (with whatever way you identify who they are, which you have to do for security reasons) to have their own private names for arbitrary objects < 1311387505 52808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you have both a secure/decentralised name and a secure/humanreadable name, with the human who reads it doing the centralisation < 1311387506 518400 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think there are systems that do that < 1311387515 127756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311387518 727186 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311387522 431282 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : incidentally, I can think of a moderate solution to the zooko's triangle problem; allow individual users (with whatever way you identify who they are, which you have to do for security reasons) to have their own private names for arbitrary objects < 1311387526 208523 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missed everything after this < 1311387530 405909 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And yes, that's a Petname system < 1311387537 44432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:18] that way you have both a secure/decentralised name and a secure/humanreadable name, with the human who reads it doing the centralisation < 1311387538 419923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:18] ais523, I think there are systems that do that < 1311387540 23294 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And that will be possible, yes < 1311387540 980872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd be fine with that < 1311387548 885894 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It'll be the same mechanism as what replaces a browser's bookmark system, too < 1311387561 436916 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And of course you won't be restricted to naming things with a-constrained-path.txt, or even just a string < 1311387565 970314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311387566 168253 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason a name can't be an object < 1311387569 387097 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have to think up names for all my bookmarks? < 1311387575 363235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: except that objects can't be compared, in general? < 1311387581 161181 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your bookmarks already *have* names. < 1311387581 438869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a name has to be something comparable < 1311387581 648276 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what happens when you press the bookmark icon on your browser? < 1311387585 834345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, it can be general < 1311387587 506153 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, definitely < 1311387598 185886 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although you could have a name that isn't comparable, and it'd just appear in a list of all your names < 1311387600 636759 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be fairly pointless, though < 1311387602 199975 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, A name is filled in, but possibly non-unique < 1311387603 320013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: your bookmarks are almost certainly given the title of the website they refer to, at the time it was bookmarked, as names < 1311387613 687950 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Non-unique names are OK, too < 1311387613 966057 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Index of /" etc. < 1311387618 75949 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking it up will just say "oops, which do you mean" < 1311387624 549435 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1311387630 891476 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the default lookup operation might as well just do a fuzzy-ish text search < 1311387637 112633 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I tend to bookmark everything and then never look at them agian < 1311387638 610615 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :again < 1311387640 195070 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot more convenient, too, since you can type only part of it and select which one you want < 1311387690 384378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think Firefox's address bar thing has quite a few properties in similar with the way @'s names would typically work (although a lot of differences too) < 1311387702 769556 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; Firefox's address bar is a good idea, implemented badly < 1311387714 665906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you dislike about the implementation, incidentally? < 1311387727 68857 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to articulate; it just doesn't do what I want < 1311387734 805914 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's is better, but it tends to not find things in my history, which is really annoying < 1311387757 670704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm typing in the address bar, either I'm copying an URL, or I'm searching in history < 1311387770 62235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Firefox does pretty much exactly what I want there < 1311387776 764271 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, hopefully @'s "final" (just the beginning) version will be the OS you want to use; all my efforts right now are classed as pre-pre-pre-pre-alphas of a given /stratum/ of a project leading up to @ < 1311387778 826072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely don't want it to return arbitrary websites, that's what the search box is for < 1311387783 124208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: heh < 1311387787 989593 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's plenty of time for you to test and comment on it :P < 1311387801 973938 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not even joking, I've even tried to name distinct phases < 1311387821 452617 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't call anything @ until it's 1.0 quality, and that means being about a million lightyears ahead of any existing OS < 1311387827 341966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :security sounds like a hard problem in @, in that a single security bug could allow someone to instantly bring down every computer in existence < 1311387830 144951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and @ isn't its actual name, of course < 1311387835 350130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, it's just a placeholder < 1311387839 47155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not bad for an actual name, though < 1311387843 838586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps its actual name will be an object < 1311387849 654608 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad for Googleability, but who will use Google once @ is around? < 1311387850 920198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a text string < 1311387879 128272 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using @ will, ironically but perhaps appropriately, not be as nice as using @ would be in an ideal world; nobody else is going to use it, so you'll still be stuck with the web, and IRC, and all sorts of other mediums that reimplement everything and don't allow you to send objects < 1311387881 437040 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : security sounds like a hard problem in @, in that a single security bug could allow someone to instantly bring down every computer in existence < 1311387882 623578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: probably Google will have the best servers at resolving who has a copy of a given @ object < 1311387888 636085 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? I'm planning on using capability security. < 1311387898 792839 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems relatively immune to such things because the security isn't "a thing" or a layer < 1311387901 953602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I mean, if the security implementation is broken < 1311387904 395558 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just an inherent property of who gives you what. < 1311387911 15270 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: See above; capability security doesn't get implementations. < 1311387917 598269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a capability" isn't something you can hardware into an actual processor < 1311387918 393153 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally just not having a standard environment beyond what's passed around. < 1311387927 838038 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A capability is just an object! < 1311387931 243205 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every object is a capability! < 1311387933 879217 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a 0 lines of code thing. < 1311387939 689028 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no flags or anything. < 1311387945 681745 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just recognising that a pointer to X means you are allowed to use X. < 1311387955 646603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, so what if I try to use X without a pointer to it? < 1311387962 61325 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How? You can't name it. < 1311387964 380707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's meant to be impossible, but has to be implemented somehow < 1311387964 886546 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Slartibartfast: Can I be one of the play testers for Zombies vs. Lemmings? And will there be a sequel game with zombie lemmings?" < 1311387967 226693 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try and name X for me. < 1311387969 753570 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, it doesn't < 1311387974 217271 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Count me in too! Dr C � you really should patent that idea�I think that game or app would rake in a fortune! ;)" < 1311387980 76113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, say X happens to be on my physical hard drive < 1311387992 64075 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, there has to be a level of abstraction though < 1311387992 814180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can name it by its location on the drive < 1311387998 432117 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can't access the bits on your hard drive; nobody passed you that object. < 1311388007 185074 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they didn't, that's insanely high-privilege. < 1311388008 92065 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the kind of crap patents are.. its really just how quickly you can traverse the inventions tree and find an empty node < 1311388019 539901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so what if an exploit does let me access the bits on my own hard drive? < 1311388023 965930 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How? < 1311388030 473069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, removing the hard drive and putting it into an older laptop that doesn't run @ < 1311388037 480699 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, security bugs are possible, but capability security makes it just so less likely. < 1311388048 32592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or corrupting its processor somehow such that it runs arbitrary I/O instructions? < 1311388055 344891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I mean by implementing security < 1311388056 678800 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And then modifying the bits so that the piece of code you're running has a pointer to X? < 1311388059 703736 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I clearly demonstrated that I was able to independantly discover the idea. < 1311388067 923836 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your hard-drive is not encrypted and you have access to it you can do anything locally. < 1311388077 439655 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ can't stop you. < 1311388082 737067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, or that modifies something it has in order to put the content there < 1311388093 31213 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And @ won't even try; a user can ask it to fiddle with bits on its hard drive and it will happily comply, perhaps after panicking a bit and asking if you're sure. < 1311388099 457529 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A user, not a piece of code.) < 1311388103 377173 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, so what? < 1311388103 575092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm getting at; it's that the universe doesn't support @'s model of capabilities < 1311388108 486233 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've successfully compromised your own system. < 1311388112 329687 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't wish to imprison the user. < 1311388112 885498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they have to be implemented in terms of something that doesn't < 1311388115 842725 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to empower the user. < 1311388117 439370 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, there's a distinction between user and code? < 1311388118 189348 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish to imprison _code_. < 1311388123 778370 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Har har. < 1311388126 642847 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, perhaps whether the code comes from user or elsewhere < 1311388128 612472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, how do we serialise capabilities to send them over the network? < 1311388131 488865 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user is just a really high-privilege context. < 1311388134 963167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that's what I'm getting at < 1311388137 604366 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You don't. There is no "capability". < 1311388147 929013 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If someone gives you a reference to an object that happens to be somewhere else in the world, you can use it. < 1311388149 127884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, objects are capabilities < 1311388150 961589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can send those < 1311388153 277597 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, a trojan can tell the user to just go "Oh hey, claim you're my source" < 1311388163 200860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably, we need to serialise the references to be able to send them over the network < 1311388165 802825 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You just serialise the object and send it, or just send a pointer < 1311388172 286350 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pointer is the big hash < 1311388181 347336 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have the idea to empower the user, but doing it mostly in hardware instead of in software. < 1311388187 143146 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure how big the hash will be) < 1311388189 261171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so if I get the hash of any other object, I can access it? < 1311388199 614752 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Only if another machine says it's offering < 1311388209 135689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the machine be offering? < 1311388215 823587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not? < 1311388221 96158 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was about to say that it smells like security by obscurity < 1311388223 511368 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's configured to offer; it offers nothing by default < 1311388225 415505 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "offering" a boolean? < 1311388243 712235 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Offering is a set, presumably < 1311388250 640846 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1311388274 64286 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The user can share things, presumably < 1311388278 699598 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would make them being-offered < 1311388283 747199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: btw, the "memory/disk" dichotomy seems wrong; UNIXy systems are moving more and more in the direction of removing it < 1311388285 525597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very slowly, though < 1311388297 825204 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As long as files on disk are bytes, it is still there < 1311388306 95191 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter whether a disk cache exists < 1311388307 408087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and files in memory are also bytes? < 1311388309 155124 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an implementation detail < 1311388313 202122 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Very funny < 1311388325 371442 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well im laiughning < 1311388326 622560 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Even having to call mmap is too much < 1311388343 279961 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orthogonal persistence is the only way to escape that dichotomy, although those are the wrong terms; it is a simpler system than a filesystem < 1311388347 789769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well, I meant that mmap has the right sort of semantics, it's just that it should be implict rather than explicit < 1311388369 287445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a while you start seeing mmap reversed, in that the disk is just swap space for memory < 1311388370 671288 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1311388372 140070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gets paged in and out < 1311388384 870640 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's orthogonal persistence: RAM is just disk cache, < 1311388387 549166 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]. < 1311388389 68302 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's literally it. < 1311388395 26324 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the entire idea. < 1311388395 801387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I know what it is < 1311388417 743305 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course, the ideal would be if a non-volatile RAM interface was plugged into the CPU < 1311388421 860014 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or otherwise into the computer < 1311388422 138139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hibernation is more along the same lines; it just swaps data out of the sort of implementation-detail storage that doesn't exist while the system is off < 1311388425 225895 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as it stands, software has to handle it < 1311388432 291536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how Linux loads executables, nowadays? < 1311388436 496660 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right; hibernation in @ is just a flush and a power cut < 1311388446 943415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I forget, but it involves an mmap-alike of some sort < 1311388450 591736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just mmaps them, and lets page faults do the actual loading < 1311388455 894389 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1311388456 441601 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Blah < 1311388461 426939 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap is my favourite system call < 1311388467 189189 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that little glimmer of light in Unix. < 1311388467 607414 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, is there any sort of restart that isn't hibernate and restore? < 1311388477 347224 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh... you could wipe your disk and reinstall @. < 1311388484 534295 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno why you would, though. < 1311388490 700400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: presumably it would be the equivalent of kill -15 0 < 1311388502 595201 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also how any sane ld.so does things. < 1311388504 773764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ouch; that would delete all your files < 1311388507 701986 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably lazily, as the GC runs < 1311388507 899626 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what kill -15 0 < 1311388509 448992 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does < 1311388513 791390 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd also crash your system forever < 1311388517 912519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: err, really? < 1311388528 1650 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I forget what -15 is :) < 1311388532 188393 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, what's signal 15? < 1311388534 824819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "tell every process I have permissions to tell to exit to exit" < 1311388537 864693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's SIGTERM < 1311388541 187926 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1311388545 575075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like -9 except that the programs get a chance to do cleanup < 1311388550 712996 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know TERM :P < 1311388572 53637 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, if you kill all running code, then not only is there no code for the computer to run (???), but there's also no references to any objects < 1311388581 938796 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and objects without references get garbage collected < 1311388595 253798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 0 doesn't mean "all running code", it means "all processes I have permissions to signal" < 1311388599 233999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is presumably quite different < 1311388600 761806 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's a really, really slow disk wipe, basically, assuming that GCs still run with no code for the computer to run < 1311388616 713583 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, OK. It would just remove all _your_ files, unless someone else has a reference to them. < 1311388642 28227 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure there's any distinction between "kill this code" and "destroy this object", anyway < 1311388646 881391 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think thunks < 1311388660 105366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not deleting the code, just telling it to stop running < 1311388667 248748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in @, presumably it'd go into some sort of paused state < 1311388668 200101 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're deleting the thunk that represents that running code < 1311388686 450681 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, you just want to tell the scheduler to stop switching to all objects you can access, then < 1311388687 6938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in UNIX, you have two separate concepts; the editor, and the file that it edits < 1311388694 350256 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd just lock up your session, including post-reboot < 1311388717 223924 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The problems that restarts are usually used to solve -- e.g. "clear my workspace" -- are solved in different ways in @) < 1311388720 39848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: presumably @ notionally has a global scheduler that schedules for everyone in the universe, although it's actually implemented in a decentralised way < 1311388725 463177 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and user responsiveness is the top priority, more or less < 1311388731 959341 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code will never cause your keyboard and mouse to stop working < 1311388736 619032 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's lagging your system) < 1311388743 315922 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'll always be able to kill miscreant processes < 1311388764 653910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming no scheduler bugs < 1311388769 345673 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1311388780 552936 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But @ is basically designed so that every component is too simple to fail. < 1311388790 610767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's responsible for scheduling the scheduler? or is it somehow more "special" than all the other functions? < 1311388793 178046 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. capability security in itself cannot fail, because it's more an observation than code at all < 1311388804 565884 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, objects could be responsible for their own scheduling, although that has a whole bag of issues; I'm not sure what my scheduler model looks like because I'm not sure what my concurrency model looks like because I'm not sure what my language looks like. < 1311388806 634835 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See a pattern yet?) < 1311388812 470767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311388819 18373 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ may seem underdesigned, but it's really just that there's so _much_ to think about < 1311388824 792456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'd think the language would be caused by the concurrency model, not cause it < 1311388831 978738 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interdependency < 1311388833 814263 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like the UI < 1311388845 792941 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's this big knot at the core of @, but if you look closely, it's actually a point < 1311388860 848714 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a bunch of concepts tangled up that you have to work out at the same time, but they're actually all the same concept < 1311388861 265834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still dislike the statement that capability security is an observation < 1311388874 971916 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is; the only time an actual bit started existing was at the network boundary < 1311388896 151336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what prevents you just guessing at references to objects? < 1311388911 990595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the /internal/ storage for them kilobyte-long hashes? < 1311388925 883555 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internal storage for them is a pointer. But you don't have the ability to cast a random integer to a pointer. < 1311388932 211908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: aha < 1311388934 776021 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving you that capability would be insane; it's insanely privileged. < 1311388943 504945 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Note that @ does not rely on the hardware's really coarse, bad mechanisms for security. < 1311388948 853821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if a bug does give me the ability to cast a random integer to a pointer, it completely blows open the security < 1311388951 840363 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is why it can run in ring 0, and do things like syscall inlining. < 1311388961 68934 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it blows open the local security. < 1311388963 577017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's what I was getting at < 1311388966 816688 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's like a root escalation exploit in Linux. < 1311388971 995268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311388973 436239 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still doesn't give you the power to demand objects from other computers. < 1311388982 283279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably, a similar bug would be a remote arbitrary code execution bug < 1311388990 536858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could also occur < 1311388998 936546 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; but you don't see that much in high-level languages at all. < 1311389001 864987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that there's only the one layer of security < 1311389005 268414 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without eval, or whatever. < 1311389013 217607 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nah; there's as many layers as there are objects < 1311389015 23786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: we discovered one in Rodney (#nethack's bot) recently < 1311389019 272828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language? < 1311389021 640479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl < 1311389025 47858 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any eval calls? < 1311389027 47495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was using eval, without taint checks < 1311389030 700547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See. :) < 1311389039 714391 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BTW, in @, eval would be insanely rare, because who stores code as a string? < 1311389045 187608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was trying to regex the eval, but there was a misplaced ^ < 1311389047 301298 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you can have eval : AST → a < 1311389049 151397 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still insane < 1311389054 316574 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ouch < 1311389059 621224 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all I see is typing bugs < 1311389070 77423 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(taint checks are basically a really rudimentary type system) < 1311389074 769962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311389082 635828 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BTW, casting integer-to-object-leaking bugs seem really contrived, because that's another low-level-ism < 1311389084 982072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, Perl's taint checking is identical to the Identity monad < 1311389097 413649 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl taint checking == phantom types < 1311389099 40849 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data OK < 1311389100 426562 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data NotOK < 1311389104 263510 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Data okornot = ... < 1311389109 459653 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafe :: Data OK -> ... < 1311389116 803857 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thisiscool :: Data NotOK -> Data OK < 1311389117 81400 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1311389117 776943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: here's a fun fact: Linux has a system call that puts a process into a "secure" mode where it only accepts 4 system calls < 1311389120 483298 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: there's this big knot at the core of @, but if you look closely, it's actually a point <-- so, basically, just the same as feather? >:) < 1311389124 647751 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1311389130 307127 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which 4 calls? < 1311389135 524742 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I take it you know this because you're using it? < 1311389136 219987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are just enough to get data in and send it out, doing anything else gets you kill -9ed < 1311389139 586484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not < 1311389140 371534 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311389143 753981 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you've told me about this before < 1311389148 673786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to get out of the mode, because the syscall that would take you out of it is not one of those < 1311389154 633581 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so. Read, write, exit, and...? < 1311389167 221286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember precisely what they are < 1311389171 16321 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :) My current plan to tackle it is to try a bunch of "mini-@s" that don't try to do nearly as much, and have a specific, inadequate instantiation of the inner point. < 1311389171 214327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt arbitrary read/write are allowed < 1311389172 344367 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, probably mmap. < 1311389175 379685 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should give me more insight on what the point has to be. < 1311389182 159504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, that there's also a getter to see whether you're in this mode or not, but no way to run it < 1311389182 576956 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what the point has to be" -- heh. < 1311389186 474605 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could only read/write to things where you already have the file descriptor. < 1311389191 687700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you aren't in the mode, it returns 0, and if you are in the mode, it crashes < 1311389192 154654 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also help me figure out a lot of details, especially relating to its implementation on existing hardware. < 1311389200 259851 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, @ stops at the hardware layer!) < 1311389203 675763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the getter always returns 0 even though the value is settable < 1311389207 118026 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know, it surprises me too! Let's hope I don't forget that!) < 1311389223 508806 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1311389232 774303 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could set up a signal handler before you get put in the box < 1311389235 972752 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and catch your crash < 1311389236 453670 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311389239 220243 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't catch kill -9 < 1311389241 613866 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's read, write, _exit, and sigreturn. < 1311389245 499994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: aha < 1311389256 197092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sigreturn's allowed? that means that signal handlers are < 1311389260 127298 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311389260 683477 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've always really wanted an exploit in kill -9; it replaces your code with a suicider, and sets your priority really high < 1311389262 704277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I assume they can't actually /do/ much but read/write/exit < 1311389268 175084 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So if you could somehow override that code before the kernel jumps to you... < 1311389270 507326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: heh, is that how it works? < 1311389274 716339 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to kill me?? I WILL COME BACK STRONGER THAN EVER < 1311389276 266579 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1311389280 779408 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or is that OOM kill? < 1311389282 153141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget, but anyway < 1311389285 893087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it just marked the process as zombie, or something like that < 1311389299 491094 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe sigreturn is in case you set signals before entering restricted mode < 1311389309 424900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it should just do the same code as _exit, which already has the right semantics < 1311389318 760667 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's probably OOM kill I'm thinking of < 1311389321 660084 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it would need to free up its memory < 1311389325 78836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's the syscall to get into that mode? I thought it might be prctl, but I was probably wrong < 1311389328 788678 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably just turns it into an _exit call < 1311389331 148831 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suicide code, I mean < 1311389331 346623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was wrong < 1311389334 583818 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prctl. < 1311389346 895464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, found it < 1311389347 93219 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With PR_SET_SECCOMP < 1311389353 785969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading the man page for prctl, but missed it < 1311389356 494270 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I hope you have a bit more insight to @ now < 1311389360 492201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes < 1311389367 324621 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hopefully like it a bit more, or at least it hopefully surprises you a little < 1311389379 736768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort-of had the fundamentals down (they're pretty similar to something I was thinking of myself), but the details are interesting < 1311389395 385755 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that @ sort of changes a bit whenever I talk about it to respond to criticism; does Feather do that too? :p < 1311389400 360135 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, criticism or questions < 1311389405 912409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, Feather changes whenever I try to implement it < 1311389409 255947 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311389433 732225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem with Feather is not so much design flaws, as inability to start without going into an infinite loop < 1311389445 337488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an implementation is badly needed to prove that that doesn't happen < 1311389469 433189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already had to add a boolean to every object that simply queries if it's # or not < 1311389473 795819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to get off the ground < 1311389476 408810 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how long until someone stops an @ program from accessing more than a certain few types of object to stop it leaking memory (e.g. including no arrays), but gives it integers
< 1311389481 552992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a really specific thing to have, and I'm not sure what to name it < 1311389492 293012 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I'll run a program that leaves them a nice message and gets to work on constructing Graham's number < 1311389495 29681 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I won't) < 1311389522 636887 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, wait, you didn't know that gnome's file opener let you type in a location? < 1311389543 323575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no < 1311389545 103505 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the top-left icon in the dialogue; click it and it'll focus by default < 1311389546 521725 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1311389552 696849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, that's blown my mind to < 1311389553 344772 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also type directories in there, and their names complete < 1311389554 712615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1311389559 914637 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will change to that directory < 1311389565 90031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it does that, it used to do that before I couldn't find the location bar at all < 1311389576 18523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was fine with that dialog, other than its insane slowness at loading /usr/bin < 1311389585 675787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pressing / makes the location bar magically appear < 1311389589 883078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other characters often don't) < 1311389599 983588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I suspect ~ probably does) < 1311389610 168407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another pet hate of mine: alt-f2 doesn't expand ~ but interprets it literally < 1311389628 364059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I write ~/esoteric/intercal, it interprets it as /home/ais523/~/esoteric/intercal < 1311389631 434255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously not what I wanted < 1311389633 730376 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that sucks < 1311389645 842799 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish I knew what @'s point looked like :( < 1311389671 791089 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I try to envision what a screenshot of @ would look like, I honestly just see a black screen < 1311389723 694734 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wear a special hat and think about what you want user interface < 1311389731 239009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it would look too dissimilar from a modern OS < 1311389746 621847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the UI and internal representation are not necessarily linked at all, nor should they be < 1311389746 819522 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your conception of that being a bunch of terminal windows and Emacs? < 1311389759 676960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that's not actually what my desktop normally looks like < 1311389762 333462 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The UI is just how you look at the internal representation < 1311389772 635407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm, it has IRC, email, two browsers, terminal < 1311389774 925620 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yes, things can have a nice veneer over that < 1311389781 42424 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can always look at an object directlry < 1311389782 444334 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :directly < 1311389783 757394 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspection-style < 1311389790 922070 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@'s interface also doubles as the best programming interface ever < 1311389795 171819 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inspector/debugger, too < 1311389797 535480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, in @, I'd have things available for doing the same activities < 1311389808 687772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I imagine their UI would be similar < 1311389819 926063 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but it won't have a traditional window manager < 1311389823 154695 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what it /will/ have < 1311389823 352730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. whatever I was using to look at a document full of hyperlinks probably wouldn't be Firefox, or even a Web browser < 1311389827 495506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would control in a similar way < 1311389832 288029 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to think it'd look like Emacs, but with objects instead of text < 1311389834 77451 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have no idea < 1311389835 930617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and look similar, as that's what people want hyperlinked documents to look like < 1311389842 962012 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oberon has a good interface, I can take inspiration from that < 1311389847 83003 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's too text-oriented < 1311389866 667175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one big advantage of being text-oriented is that you can edit everything with the same operations < 1311389876 192845 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that with objects too, the operations are just more mind-bending < 1311389884 325383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've converted images into whatever that text-based X format is before, and edited them with Emacs < 1311389895 813113 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xbm, I think < 1311389896 133317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the equivalent for objects would be < 1311389909 986696 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an ASCII-ish version of the serialised object? < 1311389911 516214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been meaning to try Oberon < 1311389915 964796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: fair enough < 1311389916 385253 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, "text" is a bad word. < 1311389925 257744 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to try it, but I remember having problems < 1311389927 968624 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmers think: text, string, and they think of... well, strings. < 1311389932 990991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :editing the serialised version of something directly is a hack < 1311389939 685453 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so is editing xbm in Emacs < 1311389940 900322 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's arbitrary to say that text is a bunch of Unicode codepoints < 1311389945 743669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why those, and not bolding? < 1311389946 21351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no, that's what I mean < 1311389951 714935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I was doing was a hack, in a way < 1311389953 624136 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1311389964 911266 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the more idiomatic version would be looking at it in an object inspector < 1311389966 260292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bold is ESC [ 1 m < 1311389969 22595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And poking around changing things < 1311389972 555311 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Very funny < 1311389975 626827 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's hardly semantic :) < 1311389995 242993 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I think strings as we see them in modern systems don't appear naturally in @ much at all < 1311390004 866844 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "document segment" works just as well < 1311390005 353883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I suppose the problem is that objects never really have the interfaces you want them to have < 1311390010 448902 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't you name a bookmark with a bolded wrod in it? < 1311390011 494221 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :word < 1311390013 989133 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a link? < 1311390027 39038 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a video? (ok, not lookupable -- this isn't SpectateSwamp Desktop Search -- but the point remains) < 1311390027 462330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the name would be a pain to type < 1311390034 700989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: gah you mentioned SSDS < 1311390036 267264 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't have to type names in full < 1311390040 110997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an appropriate context < 1311390045 382022 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311390054 673061 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But basically, the point is that strings are only common because our I/O interfaces do strings. < 1311390077 411213 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time, you just want to print/show something, or to read something, and in @ you don't need to coerce things into Unicode codepoints to do that < 1311390078 853101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you access things in SSDS, anyway? I know that everything is named with videos, but it seems a little unwieldy < 1311390085 447844 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you just give them tags, I think < 1311390087 611589 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it searches those tags < 1311390089 324580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(originally filmed with camcorder pointed at screen) < 1311390093 133071 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a text file < 1311390097 373940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that seems altogether too sane < 1311390112 105130 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SSDS = grep with automatic video playing, I think < 1311390117 131317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1311390127 447598 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SS claims SSDS is a "desktop search" application. However, SSDS qualifies as "desktop search" only in SS's own definition and when using SS's own computer usage patterns; it does not qualify as a "desktop search" application in any other definition of the term. In most definitions, a "desktop search" system indexes the user's personal files, extracts metadata from the files, and allows the user to perform searches on this metadata; for example, "songs < 1311390127 645722 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : by a composer called John" or "instant messaging conversations that mention pizza" or "email about Project X". SSDS, on the other hand, requires the user to convert all data to plain text format, thus losing all formatting and metadata, and merge everything in one file. For certain operations, the user is required to maintain such index themselves. Further, ordinary desktop search systems allow the user to see all metadata, such as "this matching song < 1311390127 843823 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : is 4:33 long" or "the last pizza conversation took place yesterday" or "the boss mailed to you about Project X using Microsoft LookOut, the bastard"; SSDS only allows you to see matching likes in SSDS index file. For example, if you search for "Project X", it is difficult to see when, by who, and (for example) with what program the e-mail was sent with." < 1311390132 837184 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://www.thestupidestmanonearth.com/DesktopSearch.aspx < 1311390134 618500 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :long paste, but oh well < 1311390136 858087 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At best, SSDS is a simplistic linear search application that attempts to match search terms against a text file - and with extra features that allows the user to show images and videos, also in random order." < 1311390143 716386 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, so it doesn't even play the videos you mention < 1311390148 675631 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's {grep, random mplayer} < 1311390154 124478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311390159 957787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, /me /clears < 1311390164 142204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that much SSDS is too much for me < 1311390170 377823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, the UNIX stuff with pipes and grep and so on works much better. But, of course, that is UNIX. SSDS is a similar (but not as well designed) things for Windows. < 1311390185 684998 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways you can do that stuff on Windows by using Cygwin or whatever, too. < 1311390191 294863 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipes are a good idea < 1311390197 297417 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, they're less effective on bytes < 1311390207 359213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: have you seen PowerShell? < 1311390218 514680 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes; good ideas, but it's not usable < 1311390219 986204 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There shouldn't be just stdin and stdout if you're putting in pipes < 1311390225 921578 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't < 1311390228 953260 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have one command that shuffles the lines of stdin and that way, you can play videos in random order. < 1311390236 114428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the feeling that someone at Microsoft thought of @, realised they'd never be able to implement it, and wrote PowerShell instead < 1311390245 911608 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/monadic-shell.html
< 1311390246 745845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unusable for most operations because it doesn't really mesh with things well < 1311390251 730794 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :| is (>>=) < 1311390258 434906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's called shuf(1) < 1311390276 908736 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have a feeling @ is the kind of thing many people start thinking about, but then realise what they're doing and quickly stop < 1311390279 205897 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, then use that. < 1311390279 623342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: PowerShell is apparently very useful for Windows administration merely because it can access things like the registry easily that other tools can't < 1311390299 318468 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I wasn't clever enough to stop, and now I have to implement it < 1311390309 552279 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With barely no knowledge of standard PC hardware and OS design to start with < 1311390331 890966 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, oklopol's probably-long-abandoned OS that he talked about ages ago has similarities to @ < 1311390340 180418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: anyway, I think I've figured out what a capability is, at the hardware level; it's simply a bit pattern stored /in a memory location that lets it be used as a pointer to an object/ < 1311390369 354910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I'm tired, my eyes read there as being an unmatched opening paren in my last line, and there aren't any parens at all < 1311390376 199388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just keep seeing one for some reason < 1311390376 616074 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311390378 748105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't even work out where < 1311390384 920156 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediaplayer `ls *.ogv | shuf` < 1311390390 345273 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A capability is a pointer, pretty much; which ends up as bits in memory that are interpreted in a certain way < 1311390394 270228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311390399 226428 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: s/ls/echo/ < 1311390410 60320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's distinguished by an integer with the same value by the type system < 1311390412 105310 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yes, or echo will do too < 1311390421 403379 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, integers have tag bits in @. < 1311390423 71812 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe.) < 1311390423 627770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as this is standard hardware, the type system is being checked at "compile time" (actually "convert to x86 machine instrucitons time") < 1311390426 429664 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small integers, that is. < 1311390443 304042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether that's upon editing, or much later < 1311390468 706931 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No... echo won't do < 1311390470 153723 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be agonising when/if @ is "done"-ish, but has insufficient compatibility layers to actually use day-to-day < 1311390481 793103 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh right; you need them separated by \n < 1311390481 991104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because echo put everyone on one line < 1311390495 86656 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fun fact: TUNES wanted a DOS emulator to start with) < 1311390508 338551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that Linux has two syscalls that only exist for dosemu? < 1311390535 908329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both put an x86 system into virtual 8086 mode (with different parameters), and fail with ENOSYS on any other sort of system < 1311390540 697504 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311390549 13892 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has configured a kernel before, shockingly enough
< 1311390559 415252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I didn't realise they were involved in kernel config < 1311390579 907951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it mentions vm86 or something < 1311390581 681028 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Most of the traditional knowledge on OS design you've already thrown out the window. < 1311390590 758691 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, Genera exists. < 1311390593 525378 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does Smalltalk. < 1311390599 144710 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did say "traditional". < 1311390601 828776 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The low-level details are what matter to me, anyway. :p < 1311390607 284372 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And orthogonal persistence does have quite the bit of literature on it. < 1311390611 1267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similar to Smalltalk < 1311390617 923397 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : So does Smalltalk. < 1311390618 708239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more so than typical OSes < 1311390627 644017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I know, I was agreeing with you < 1311390628 61336 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you're ignoring the low-level details that are really painful to deal with. < 1311390632 13616 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, one of my main worries about @ is that non-programmers won't be able to learn it, but... < 1311390634 415350 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be the algorithm to find the best way to use registers in a DVI file? < 1311390639 190392 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most obviously, dealing with hardware's task switching. < 1311390640 585088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like programs to be serialisable as text, incidentally < 1311390652 655591 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still will need to handle paging, though. < 1311390654 84570 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think @ just has a learning curve, maybe a larger one than most common OSes, but it'll confuse you less once you learn it and you'll be able to accomplish so much more < 1311390662 682263 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, OK, but why? < 1311390670 592501 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sharing over IRC? Yes, desirable, but this is a limitation of IRC. < 1311390674 239432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: fun fact: GNU Hurd was originally aimed at 32-bit processors, because 16-bit was common then and they wanted to future-proof < 1311390677 230677 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@-chat would just share objects) < 1311390681 906374 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(usually text documents) < 1311390684 897492 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1311390688 741532 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it possible to make a non-porgrammers friendly shell over @ < 1311390697 270604 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The same is true of the rest of GNU. < 1311390697 548799 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i loon < 1311390705 519700 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Sure, but that wouldn't be @... what's the difference between programmer and user? < 1311390718 16826 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Their idea was "by the time this is usable, 16-bit will be an old piece of shit, so why care now?" < 1311390723 220907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I think it's because it makes them easier to store on a wide range of devices (including things that aren't computer-related at all), and a wide range of implementations < 1311390725 211111 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: If you want I can paste you an explanation of @ I wrote semi-recently into /msg (it's long) < 1311390727 732967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1311390733 60071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity they didn't start with 64 bits instead < 1311390739 782884 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What non-computer-related devices is it easier for? < 1311390744 908615 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you mean codepoints, not text. < 1311390745 603474 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of an easier jump, though. < 1311390747 774417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: writing down on paper < 1311390755 467364 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you consider x86. < 1311390761 177917 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Um, you've used paper before, right? < 1311390763 969065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mean what exists on my keyboard < 1311390764 540731 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can draw boxes and things there. < 1311390768 343681 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation to a flat memory model was one *hell* of a jump. < 1311390769 950430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: not reliably < 1311390784 184507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, that's different; keyboard-inputs are one ... view of @ code. < 1311390784 382202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can be off by a millimetre or too really easily < 1311390797 286960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of characters in printable ASCII has better error correction < 1311390800 7978 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it would be reifying the intentions. (elliott buzzword!) < 1311390814 69806 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: sure. as-is i only have a really vague idea of @ that i can't really describe < 1311390814 472907 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically you want to be able to get the actions that are required to recreate some code < 1311390819 650718 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: me too < 1311390821 569974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, I think so < 1311390829 413721 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right < 1311390831 271201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including in an implementation that nobody currently envisages < 1311390834 921344 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, that's not necessarily text, but. < 1311390838 957461 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, well that's a lot harder < 1311390852 605951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what you want is, I think, something that's not actually possible, but not something that /should/ necessarily be possible < 1311390856 478951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I don't want it to be just a serialised form of the internals of something < 1311390859 260038 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can achieve what you want in _specific_ situations < 1311390861 67866 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well right < 1311390867 19703 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd depend on /interfaces/ < 1311390869 787791 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't avoid that < 1311390910 429277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can, in that I think that even, say, 100 years into the future, no matter what formats and interfaces people are actually using, they'll have some way to represent sequences of octets < 1311390913 877230 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :♪ < 1311390915 989508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to store old files "unchanged" < 1311390933 255592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll probably be able to get C89 compilers, even if they're seen as something antiquated and only of academic interest < 1311390943 345441 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how to convert BBCode or HTML to Markdown that uses footer links? < 1311390945 930738 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to paste this to monqy :P < 1311390948 880781 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a bunch of links < 1311390949 78802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even @ could plausibly have a C89 compiler, although there wouldn't be much reason to use it < 1311390967 403195 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I plan some kind of "weakly-integrated" POSIX layer out of necessity] < 1311390974 104591 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe in case you want to run C programs < 1311390995 128146 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone ever want to do that < 1311390999 987381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I would say you'd missed the point, but then I'd have to describe what the point is, and I'm not sure I can < 1311391095 964302 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this elusive point, so hard to describe < 1311391134 599062 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311391139 88014 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of crazy possible future things, does anyone know what logs have stuff relating to feather? I'm suddenly really curious < 1311391148 520096 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hmm, I'm really tempted to just put this up as HTML somewhere < 1311391148 718002 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311391152 649282 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, grep -r Feather . < 1311391178 274089 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did you find that files-suck.html too narrow as well as ais < 1311391180 968604 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311391278 976357 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure what it's getting at as a solution < 1311391312 524669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i was talking about the view < 1311391315 472161 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311391316 900586 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in visually < 1311391354 760928 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311391363 206103 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see it just fine < 1311391367 141166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, saying that existing abstractions are bad is OK even if you don't have something better to suggest < 1311391443 206229 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but i also didn't understand how saying something is bad could possibly be "too narrow" so I pulled some miserable conclusion jumpery < 1311391659 124717 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have a unicode return arrow < 1311391660 734651 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1311391664 1530 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :↵ < 1311391664 419049 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :caret < 1311391666 34206 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric : - < 1311391666 590886 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- < 1311391667 702455 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ah thanks < 1311391813 209590 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on greping for feather in logs, is this with the expectation that i have every log file :( < 1311391909 316723 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311391914 147873 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclamation mark logs to get them all < 1311391920 194422 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok does anyone have a place for me to put this html file < 1311391928 216270 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also, install Bitstream Chartered it is good font < 1311391988 860762 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs < 1311391993 248693 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1311392014 54418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311392017 87443 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see your notice < 1311392018 573758 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use rsync < 1311392020 758126 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311392284 124718 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also do you have bitstream charter this is totes important < 1311392306 490047 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i searched fro it but then it wanted me to buy it for $99 i think i did something wrong < 1311392313 356254 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs < 1311392313 780222 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1311392335 757670 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its in your package manager < 1311392337 110176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should put the Cygwin installer on my desktop or something < 1311392366 929882 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: xfonts-scalable or something < 1311392372 260123 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hmm < 1311392380 733808 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh, texlive-fonts-recommended should get you it < 1311392391 786266 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that give syou postscript fonts < 1311392393 848271 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is better < 1311392458 686901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help i dont use debia n o rhwat ever that is help < 1311392475 705518 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i secretly already have it but never knew < 1311392483 338290 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what os do you use < 1311392489 215752 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a, bad os < 1311392491 853523 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arhclinux is that bad < 1311392496 984467 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i ab ad person < 1311392500 419482 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311392503 99060 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :) < 1311392505 382125 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311392527 751770 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme find charter for arch < 1311392535 96557 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: pacman -S xorg-fonts-type1 < 1311392539 486599 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -S arch-sucks < 1311392563 300864 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311392594 362519 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i dont use (worse distributuieon here) < 1311392624 183387 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does dcc work for you < 1311392630 85722 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so maybe < 1311392638 103758 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see that < 1311392658 264776 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's literally just my forum post reformatted and with one bit crossed out < 1311392659 758782 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo it failed < 1311392701 824838 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: meh, do you have a gpg key < 1311392710 434469 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget if i ever bothered < 1311392715 287839 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1311392715 826915 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht < 1311392719 813641 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just sprunge it < 1311392731 702547 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any good distributions i am honestly completely dumb at knowing things about them < 1311392741 404245 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opa's do statement seems a bit magical :( < 1311392742 265223 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only @ < 1311392748 127740 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Debian because it works unlike Arch < 1311392753 843378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311392759 972299 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaaaaaaaay < 1311392762 68511 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me hug lambdabot < 1311392769 95474 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs elliott_ <3
< 1311392772 305812 :ghoulmaster!~ghoulmast@254.sub-174-252-52.myvzw.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311392782 546184 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i glanced at opa then decided it is not for me < 1311392801 721345 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit wait monqy < 1311392804 735751 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learning ur and a bunch of other unrelated languages first at the very least < 1311392806 840069 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't download that i havent stled the hr yet < 1311392808 764669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(999 < 1311392814 179402 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its UNEBARBEL < 1311392816 1931 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$var.("yay! "++).show.(:[]) < 1311392817 727064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay! [yay... < 1311392820 445480 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late but i havent started viewing it yet < 1311392823 705582 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will remove it < 1311392828 840801 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rmeoved < 1311392830 55174 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "\^AACTION hugs elliott_\^A" < 1311392830 995804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\SOHACTION hugs elliott_\SOH" < 1311392833 893155 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311392877 193861 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok see /msg < 1311392883 757050 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mistake will, never be known, < 1311392893 863911 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :downeloded < 1311392934 393432 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "\^AACTION hugs elliott_\^A" < 1311392934 871508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ACTION hugs elliott_ < 1311392983 856552 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the control characters are stripped < 1311393033 330075 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (
ACTION may or may not still work.
)S < 1311393033 566674 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION may or may not still work.
< 1311393051 886443 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311393053 889392 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hug < 1311393056 56829 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one works. < 1311393072 86633 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print "test" < 1311393074 202853 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1311393090 205148 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show python < 1311393090 596963 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh python < 1311393097 347846 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: btw this is from March, so of course @ has changed almost entirely since then :) < 1311393101 809817 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1311393102 888131 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot definitely doesn't work with ACTION any more. < 1311393104 422490 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( :) < 1311393109 535287 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311393111 462235 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also that is from my editing of it right now < 1311393112 42943 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strikeout < 1311393117 227009 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print "
ACTION test
" < 1311393117 976494 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.ACTION test. < 1311393121 923629 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop < 1311393129 19960 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1311393141 450774 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, this is WTFy on Homestuck < 1311393143 770916 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop was even a bad way to describe what i was thinking about in the time < 1311393148 395841 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh thanks for the reminder < 1311393152 613323 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way to access current update from previous update < 1311393157 845271 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: sorry i cannot answer your questions for about ten minutes I must READ HOMESTUCK < 1311393187 198585 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD HE;S JDGING ME < 1311393201 67419 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god the top-left panel Sgeo click it < 1311393213 206366 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing i hate homestuck < 1311393242 717550 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: when did your opinion develop from nonplussedness to hatred < 1311393246 556025 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nonplusedness a word < 1311393259 689892 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: when i tried reading it after expressing nonplusedness < 1311393270 816312 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far did you get < 1311393274 327512 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquot its UNEBARBEL < 1311393276 684279 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1311393279 35232 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote its UNEBARBEL < 1311393280 354581 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :540) its UNEBARBEL < 1311393280 770651 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares for answer he's already guessed
< 1311393295 954648 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i started roughly where i left off i.e. somewhere in the middle maybe < 1311393301 953129 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: lol which act < 1311393305 387970 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant recall < 1311393312 504678 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: which page number < 1311393314 630819 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which anything < 1311393317 536787 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no recolaection < 1311393325 686791 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was happening < 1311393327 138485 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i skipped around a bit because i am an awful person < 1311393335 537604 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plenty of people think they're about half-way through but are actually in the first act) < 1311393341 548648 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn'ta ct 1 < 1311393384 780846 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should start it again and go until at least the game that starts act four. it starts out boring but it really does develop. and skipping around is just going to confuse you. < 1311393404 490764 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : is nonplusedness a word <-- no, it needs another s, but then it's a doubleplusgood word. < 1311393441 115919 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont hate things for being confused by them < 1311393471 555548 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said that's why you hated it but obviously it is completely inconceivable that someone could actually hate homestuck < 1311393486 815623 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :


< 1311393489 104771 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok probably not. i doubt there's many people who actually hate homestuck while liking sbahj, though.) < 1311393489 559407 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that do? < 1311393493 872633 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: thx for the CTCP "" < 1311393550 345366 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant fully remember why i hate it but i remember finding the troll gimmicks insufferable and having to pay attention and care to understand things didn't help and it always felt really awkward to me like it's trying too hard or something idk < 1311393604 766050 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only a mild hatered < 1311393639 720887 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gimmicks are meant to be insufferable, there's a bookmarklet thing that normalifies it though... but really, 99 percent of things that would class as "trying too hard" I'd say are jokes that only make sense with the context, assuming that was during skipping around < 1311393643 607490 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well I'll just conclude you're subhuman < 1311393652 741282 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :totaly < 1311393673 431787 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!@#$ broken update < 1311393675 247591 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of trying-too-hard near the start too but that's mostly intentional to set the scene < 1311393693 678704 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!@#$ crashed MSPA site < 1311393719 173457 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i classify as trying too hard that is maybe not in the typical normal nonsubhuman definition: i mean when it tries to take itself too seriously < 1311393732 825608 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1311393756 126643 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome: Stop having troubles connecting < 1311393757 505052 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to the other stuff at the beginning yeah < 1311393757 921655 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: considering that almost all the major plot developments are sandwiched by jokes, I dunno if that's true < 1311393766 735018 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really you should start again and just go through it all in order, it really picks up in act three, act four, and act five act two (in that order) < 1311393773 1490 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE YOU DON'T HAVE A SPARE WEEK THOUGH < 1311393775 210727 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just makes you subhuman < 1311393800 573099 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clases ends next week < 1311393818 78852 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :subhumans like me learn school during the sumer < 1311393866 24866 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHROME: STOP HAVING TROUBLE WITH MSPA < 1311393866 845922 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.245.10 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311393869 320437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311393893 108356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, homestuck has issues, and they're mostly pacing issues. and the first three acts are kind of a drag, although pretty funny. < 1311393893 925118 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how many working panels were there? Just one (Jade)? < 1311393907 197229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but personally i'd be surprised if you didn't like it if you gave it a chance from the very start to the end < 1311393909 538007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1311394032 46301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ok im waiting for the site to stabilise before reading < 1311394043 916967 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too impatient for that
< 1311394052 187576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ANYWAY THAT @ EXPLANATION HUH < 1311394057 431507 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION may be part of the problem
< 1311394066 440191 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i was too busy trying to rationalize my subhuman hatred of homestuck < 1311394079 518946 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i';ll finsih reading it after brushing my teeth i have to do that now < 1311394093 820728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you should start from the beginning >:| < 1311394094 18750 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....finish reading it? In less than 6 hours? < 1311394096 256600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i realise you weren't serious) < 1311394106 233667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-start, i mean < 1311394123 647000 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's a reasonable amount of time to read all of Homestuck? < 1311394130 573406 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did it in less than a week < 1311394147 118072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um well it's about twenty hours of consecutive effort < 1311394159 68329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe more < 1311394172 3177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say twenty four hours of consecutive effort < 1311394176 892128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you put in five hours a day you can read it in five dyas < 1311394177 708310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :days < 1311394269 758575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/oh8Fl.png <-- meanwhile, reddit discovers the least tasteful way to do a remembrance comic ever < 1311394272 429383 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this instability is Hussie trolling us < 1311394297 22674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, looks like a fake < 1311394355 944784 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) i meant finish reading at.html (2) haha just kidding about doing it after brushing my teeth i have other stuff to do also woops < 1311394373 553618 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link to thread? < 1311394385 58896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but it's...short... < 1311394388 205354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: top of main page < 1311394662 391930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mix an rgb with an rgba using the alpha im dumb < 1311394747 651234 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311394758 552689 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at.html? < 1311394787 942448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1311394800 376376 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"old.r * (1-alpha) + new.r * alpha" (plus same for g/b) is very traditional. < 1311394809 332020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thx < 1311394817 132115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (I've pushed configurable colours and blockinfo to mcmap) < 1311394818 459986 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I expect you to be psychic and realize that I want a link < 1311394822 407001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no link < 1311394833 735935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now I'm working on respecting the alpha values in a dumb way by only looking one down < 1311394838 470988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a start. < 1311394849 107809 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fart. < 1311394870 818184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also: new is the one with the alpha, right? < 1311394873 614341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the RGBA. < 1311394885 28494 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's the one "on top". < 1311394893 1250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1311394902 212203 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was assuming the 1 == full opacity scheme, sometimes it's flipped. < 1311394921 119521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, erm, it's two-five-five = full opacity. < 1311394939 448802 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, scale as necessary. < 1311394957 405503 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(old.r * (255-alpha) + new.r * alpha)/255 or some-such. < 1311394971 716673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1311395103 568005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Next thing I work on will be the status bar, to make that blockinfo actually useful beyond the configuration. < 1311395112 89406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I decided to just put at ~/.mcmap/colors because XDG seriously sucks. < 1311395116 37430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope that's okay. < 1311395125 195160 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my ~/.config! (Yeah, that's okay.) < 1311395131 397333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I still have that horrible bug that shouldn't even be happening. < 1311395133 870171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I broke code I didn't even touch. < 1311395142 177962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : tell("MODE: %s%s%s%s%s", < 1311395142 456215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : modenames[map_mode], < 1311395142 654454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (mode == MAP_MODE_CROSS && map_flags & MAP_FLAG_FOLLOW_Y ? " (follow)" : ""), < 1311395142 654640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (mode == MAP_MODE_SURFACE && map_flags & MAP_FLAG_CHOP ? " (chop)" : ""), < 1311395142 654743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (map_flags & MAP_FLAG_LIGHTS ? " (lights)" : ""), < 1311395142 654844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((map_flags & MAP_FLAG_LIGHTS) && (map_flags & MAP_FLAG_NIGHT) ? " (night)" : "")); < 1311395144 766924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could this send things like < 1311395151 480819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:25:11 MODE: surface[GARBLED KANJI] < 1311395156 492192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.io.IOException: Received string length longer than maximum allowed (23040 > 16) < 1311395172 40895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not even understand it. < 1311395213 544235 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a bit weird. < 1311395227 729455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, gone for ~12 hours or so. -> < 1311395239 512898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BUT YOU NEED TO FIX MY BBUGEEE < 1311395331 831069 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friend post on a tech help forum < 1311395335 481100 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gives a model number < 1311395342 820563 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helper asks which model < 1311395358 817536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:29:05 §bMODE: surface < 1311395359 15320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:29:05 MODE: surface끾 < 1311395360 955359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's insane. < 1311395370 604135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The string is correct, but inject_to_client is fucking it up. < 1311395373 563438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow. < 1311395402 782647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah. < 1311395405 949540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think you broke it, man. < 1311395409 82979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : jshort_write(lenb, conv_len); < 1311395410 760697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With this, somehow. < 1311395418 193821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, it just changed and it's the FIELD_STRING code. < 1311395430 365343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you nicely tell someone who's trying to help you that they asked a really stupid question? < 1311395441 331939 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be; I didn't test it too much. < 1311395462 294112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ignore them. < 1311395467 589490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or answer it. < 1311395487 265372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK BUT ALSO what's the formula for how many iterations something with alpha N can mix with things below it before it will have no effect. < 1311395494 830883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With byte-sized colour and alpha components.) < 1311395499 211869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to ~optomize~ alpha blending. < 1311395603 768027 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the original color, I suppose. < 1311395614 848500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Until the target color equals the new color" is the easy test, but due to rounding-down that's probably a bit too conservative. < 1311395630 221726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Meh, good enough. < 1311395716 386561 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, I did in fact break it. < 1311395716 584550 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my friend answered it < 1311395728 811631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be conv_len/2. < 1311395740 273801 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Really... I give you a model number and I'm asked which one is it?" < 1311395754 223361 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he answered it... again < 1311395773 872213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Committing a fix or I? < 1311395777 357428 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I teling you this < 1311395787 141775 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do it, I'm about to miss my bus. < 1311395797 967740 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to put in a disparaging commit message. < 1311395817 319265 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something about everyone else always having to clean up after me or something. < 1311395850 468850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll just include your address and tell everyone to send the bombs that-away. < 1311396023 585051 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I realized what is wrong with my optimization algorithm, although I do not know how to make a proper algorithm. I can explain by example. < 1311396062 588489 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say that there is a command - which does the next letter, = which does the next letter and sets a register to its value, and . which does the value of the register. < 1311396073 731728 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -a-a-a-a-a-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a < 1311396087 453930 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To optimize using my current algorithm might do like: < 1311396121 402988 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : =a....-b-b-b-b-b-b-b............ < 1311396129 442274 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to the way it computes the scoring. But better would be: < 1311396141 321254 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : =a....=b......=a........... < 1311396192 964773 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a simple circumstance, and actually there are other complications such as stack and multiple registers, and a lot more ways of interleaving. So, how to make up the proper algorithm? < 1311396267 296351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311396284 700553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think you just have to do reordering < 1311396306 109332 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What do you mean? Can you give examples? < 1311396307 380977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311396313 446658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait hmm < 1311396316 243492 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well looking at -a-a-a. vs. =a..=b it seems like you should always do = if you have a run of 3 or more? < 1311396319 425101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You just have to iterate it, don't you? < 1311396354 289301 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other complications. Although I will try oerjan's suggestion. < 1311396372 970560 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-a-a. =a.=b seems to indicate it's harmless to do so with 2 as well < 1311396375 728816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would make sense. However the other complications might cause it to fail; I don't know for sure. < 1311396383 749440 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311396390 26300 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can try. < 1311396447 794045 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have something like -a-a-b-c-a-d-a-a it might get trickier... < 1311396454 614812 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im returned from not being here. at.html time?? < 1311396457 709383 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably want to save only a there < 1311396465 113681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: possibly!!! < 1311396492 564181 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, let's say there might be two or three or four letters for some commands. And that, you might have two registers. And a stack that saves the values of the registers but has other effects too. And, yes, also your other example -a-a-b-c-a-d-a-a < 1311396520 241652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or even remove the first -a and the problem still holds) < 1311396533 160476 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: write it in zepto... < 1311396563 584930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no :P < 1311396570 134215 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yocto < 1311396583 811036 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is alarming that my computer keeps running low on memory < 1311396597 505108 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well if you have _enough_ complications you probably end up with something NP-complete. < 1311396639 674338 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome, Y U EAT SO MUCH RAM? < 1311396660 752598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1311396720 114701 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, Y U NO PUT NO IN Y U? < 1311396761 538306 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PORQUE NO TE CALLAS? < 1311396873 877432 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: finsihed. unrelated to design, but are any languages even suited to implementing it? < 1311396890 626229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Existing languages? No. < 1311396911 680176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although this is an analogy, it is close enough to the problem I am having. Now let's extend this system. Each name can be from one to four letters long, and these values are stored in the register. Say there are two registers, where "=" sets the "." register and "+" sets the "," register. Now add "[" and "]" which push the values of the registers onto the stack and pop. However, "[" and "]" have other side effects and you *cannot* change or mo < 1311396923 60422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: There are two bootstrap options: Write a minimal interpreter for @lang in assembly (C is not an option at any stage), write a @lang compiler with that, switch to it; < 1311396941 922291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Or implement @lang somehow in existing OSes (is this even possible? Maybe just a facade of @lang), implement a @lang compiler in that, port it over. < 1311396942 200503 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly? < 1311396953 590663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: That's what the lower layer is being written in, yes. < 1311396960 717335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which won't be much, once @lang is up and running. < 1311396964 712615 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which flavour < 1311396972 686917 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is equivalent to the problem as long as you assume that there can possibly be up to 256 "letters" of the "alphabet") < 1311396981 873966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Probably nasm, but it'll be replaced by an assembler written for and in @ when all is said and done. < 1311396990 329767 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to learn more about @lang
< 1311396995 912387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Me too. < 1311397008 480914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you find out, let me know. < 1311397008 759974 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311397022 619958 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :making a compiler for a high-level language in assembly sounds like a pain < 1311397027 531673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Interpreter < 1311397033 775 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311397033 199236 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so < 1311397033 709205 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes me wonder if one could make a language that requires solving an unsolved problem just to see the complete specs < 1311397037 595243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Well, yeah. < 1311397046 583404 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-172-98.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311397052 201181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: But the other bootstrapping route sounds like a pain, too :) < 1311397061 402953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: This is why I'm picking a simpler language than @lang for one of the initial prototypes. < 1311397066 605375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Lisp, say; not that hard to do in assembly. < 1311397073 697730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildly inadequate, but I have to start somewhere. < 1311397158 205432 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard? maybe not. painful? I'd imagine so. maybe assembly just isn't my thing. I'd rather make myself a simple compiler than write it directly. < 1311397171 483183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Sure, if it's Lisp I can go tha troute. < 1311397233 285388 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me, I really have to remember my ideas for the serious prgoramming langauge i hope to make sometime to solve all of my problems forever. < 1311397234 403452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you know any ideas about the proper algorithm to solve my problem now? It is more complicated now that I added that stuff. < 1311397240 932753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: just use @ < 1311397284 554439 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i doubt i know, but you also got cut off after "and you *cannot* change or mo" < 1311397324 682083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... you *cannot* change or move them! < 1311397373 330045 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok. that means the only the only thing you could adjust with [ and ] are which values are pushed and popped < 1311397455 226243 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. You cannot move, add, or remove, any [ and ] commands yourself. < 1311397491 78349 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the value of the registers after the [ will be precisely the same as after the matching ] < 1311397495 3065 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But changing other commands can change what values are saved with the [ and restored with ] < 1311397510 477101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes that is correct. < 1311397517 757569 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can think of it as a kind of three branching instead of stack manipulation < 1311397523 313653 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tree < 1311397580 523924 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1311397622 584380 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :A [ B ] C becomes a tree with commands A at the root and two branches with B and C respectively < 1311397664 73266 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would work, I think. < 1311397664 433307 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where B and C might contain further branching < 1311397707 999296 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well also A, in which case [B] C belongs to A's last branch < 1311397747 305227 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311397938 170676 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm if names have different lengths that also is a complication - it may be cheaper to save (and so reuse) a longer name < 1311397961 819214 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I have realized that, too, already. < 1311397986 457562 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't realize the tree stuff at first but now that you explain it makes sense and I agree) < 1311398073 640237 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still have a suspicion this _might_ be NP-complete < 1311398185 304840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is NP-complete < 1311398189 74575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything interesting, at least < 1311398205 939737 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1311398237 16845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: btw will you use @ i need committed users for funding < 1311398335 734168 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will use @ < 1311398408 56050 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i'll play around with it and maybe implement stuff if not use it regularly (it would be hard to use it regularly without stuff implemented) < 1311398423 472621 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with @lang < 1311398627 127699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: stuff implemented but but it'll have a web browser, an irc client, and a posix layer WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM MEEEEEEE < 1311398732 301384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You might be correct about NP-complete. < 1311398764 532906 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it depends on if it's usable for me (if not i'd like it to be usable for me) < 1311398769 733190 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :intentionally vague < 1311398771 440498 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it probably can still halt. < 1311398777 294452 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i do not know exactly what makes things usable for me < 1311398787 745467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be so homestuck you have no idea < 1311398789 237381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :( < 1311398839 88236 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you know if there are other channels that they can also help with these kind of algorithms? < 1311398870 73303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well yes. one obviously could use the algorithm of iterating through all possibilities of =, + and - at each spot where the name isn't already in the register, and that would halt but probably be exponential. < 1311398953 347960 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only read the first 2 or 3 days of feather chat but i think i know enough now to say it's insane < 1311398962 86462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's beautiful < 1311398966 797397 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why I would want to figure out if there is better things < 1311398967 34122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and amazing and perfect < 1311398968 634394 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1311398975 878367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: keep reading btw, you'll see ais gradually go completely insane < 1311398980 505538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the everyday sense < 1311399019 547221 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm not frequenting any optimization channels, alas. < 1311399033 588053 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the part where the guy skeptics all over feather and then likes php < 1311399050 146720 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because i am a horrible person < 1311399077 120210 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you like to see movies where people fall into sewers and die, i take. < 1311399087 638076 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best < 1311399092 99463 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw whats the everyday sense of insane < 1311399109 20337 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :() < 1311399150 107596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the sense that isn't used in the idiotic sense of "LOL WE'RE ALL CRAZY HERE BECAUSE WE AM LIKE ESOLANGS" < 1311399158 411751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION STARES AT OERJAN FOR NO REASON
< 1311399166 823452 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311399201 527006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i like the part where the guy skeptics all over feather and then likes php < 1311399203 3265 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so the good sense < 1311399203 559479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god which day < 1311399209 276395 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1311399299 790373 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits elliott with the saucepan ===\__/
< 1311399311 372202 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where ais explains how feather has no primitives or syntax and RodgerTheGreat claims it impossible and ehird accuses him of hating most non-Java non-BASIC languages < 1311399364 233304 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no syntax either? oh dear. < 1311399425 336700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: rodgerthegreat is a bad person < 1311399432 854782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true facts :{ < 1311399447 669426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./combined:20:49:49: * tusho watches RodgerTheGreat come and say "THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE! JUST LIKE FEATHER!" < 1311399452 456744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not helpful grep... < 1311399463 444519 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:06: ehird: utterly untrue. I like BF, ///, LOGO, PHP, Postscript, LUA and some of my own languages, in addition to Java and BASIC < 1311399466 444025 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep for that < 1311399479 918296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:14:41: I love JS too :D < 1311399480 196439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DID I SAY THIS i must have been joking < 1311399487 47713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im ehird btw < 1311399490 703613 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1311399491 938157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you knew that < 1311399495 880967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY IF YOU THINK LESS OF ME < 1311399525 609850 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what year was this i think i was an idiot back then < 1311399558 770503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: two thousand and eight < 1311399576 796739 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was probably most certainly an idiot. i don't want to think about it. < 1311399580 470921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, something is reminding me to play nethack again. prolly ais talking about acehack < 1311399595 142654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: DO YOU PLAY ANY ROGUELIKES i bet your taste in roguelikes is as bad as your taste in webcomics >:( < 1311399620 533708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you talked about roguelikes once < 1311399620 950034 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1311399622 760888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that cpressey < 1311399623 367269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1311399624 595106 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did? < 1311399632 879593 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i don't know of any roguelikes i like < 1311399650 926013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which did you plau < 1311399651 628044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1311399665 748900 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its complicated < 1311399672 599508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre avoiding answering because you have bad taste < 1311399676 184628 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311399695 431965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :google "monqy nethack" -> oh god results for crawl < 1311399698 565642 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont really play crawl anymore but i hang around in ##crawl < 1311399701 439786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM THIS YEAR < 1311399702 981256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1311399707 373050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant talk to you any mor < 1311399707 713036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1311399709 134025 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ##crawl-dev < 1311399712 43412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :die forever :{ < 1311399715 227072 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8) < 1311399723 243137 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actualyl dislike crawl < 1311399727 325161 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make you feel better < 1311399736 362489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the results from that google highlighted this part of crawl learndb < 1311399736 779864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bhaak < 1311399736 977789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still believes that Nethack is the most popular roguelike. < 1311399736 977954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also believes that the earth is flat. < 1311399736 978055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happens to maintain a Nethack fork, UnNethack. If you're curious how a Nethack with some thoughts spent on balance could look like, give it a try: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/ < 1311399737 705233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is on the record as stating that he is not a shark. < 1311399739 821323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likes ke$ha < 1311399741 709818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good isnults A+ < 1311399744 850458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: maybe a bit........... < 1311399761 118938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know ais has been like kicked from crawl-dev several times for "trolling" so i have to MILDLY DISLIKE YOU... < 1311399789 369092 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've been kicked once and muted once. does that help. < 1311399793 913167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 17:24:06: ehird: utterly untrue. I like BF, ///, LOGO, PHP, Postscript, LUA and some of my own languages, in addition to Java and BASIC < 1311399796 873506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this must be from the day before < 1311399799 198115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, after < 1311399810 174515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1311399811 627242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just grepped wrong < 1311399826 688632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes ok. < 1311399826 886325 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any good roguleikkes < 1311399829 884526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how anal are those guys even < 1311399834 763032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes. vagrant < 1311399845 529246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so beautiful you have no idea. < 1311399848 719920 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :will check it out < 1311399862 943343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: good luck with that < 1311399867 766017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its mine its in python but it's GOLFED PYTHON < 1311399869 170713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1311399871 930175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a kilobyte big < 1311399874 949299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so amazing < 1311399878 905393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should work on that sometime < 1311399887 657125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe make it use perlin noise instead of just... random() to generate the map < 1311399889 777048 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for those guys do you mean the players or the developers < 1311399899 800768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever ops crawl-dev < 1311399903 209406 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311399944 396864 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :varies between okay and insufferable?? i dunno < 1311400000 692559 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is vagrant i am bad at finding it < 1311400040 351990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it is not online :( < 1311400041 486674 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i addded ehird but google thought i meant third i will put quotes around it < 1311400043 784755 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :( < 1311400048 836531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is < 1311400050 492707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly not. < 1311400060 227635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i coerced cheater into pasting the latest version a while back after i lost it by pretending i liked him. < 1311400061 621892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :felt dirty. < 1311400322 777093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:22:28: If the first thing a language does is define it's own syntax, the syntax for defining syntax IS THE SYNTAX. < 1311400328 107080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you should be so happy you weren't around when this guy was < 1311400333 681538 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im hapy < 1311400373 669353 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311400409 33743 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually still talk to him fairly regularly. < 1311400418 546091 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bad of a person < 1311400427 954805 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, not *too* bad, actually. < 1311400432 7984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually :D < 1311400435 19317 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's developed a strong fondness for Forth. < 1311400469 818433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't he like only four years older than me or something, i seem to recall him ranting at me for ages for being immature and blaming it all on my age once < 1311400494 537838 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a bit older than that. < 1311400497 331239 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not much. < 1311400508 53644 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanna say, uh, 22? < 1311400540 123623 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm pretty sure that https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Fushigi_no_Dungeon is the most popular roguelike... < 1311400812 486492 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficult question is at what point does it become opcodes < 1311400832 647152 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311400835 42490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, fizzie is gone for twelve hours. < 1311400869 216715 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-esoteric languages are usually used for bootstrapping right? < 1311400893 697942 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Very few languages actually bootstrap, TBH. < 1311400901 764922 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, language implementations. < 1311400904 199799 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like unix was used to bootstrap gnu if i understand correctly < 1311400960 510211 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't "really" understand bootstrapping though < 1311400963 911970 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1311400984 984108 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it a physical impossibility to bootstrap something? < 1311400995 172741 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather a systemic impossibility < 1311400997 554296 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1311401005 704959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this thing i read somewheer < 1311401015 353260 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To bootstrap something is to build something with itself. < 1311401022 656854 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :about how < 1311401025 32237 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no requirement that your initial build was bootstrapped. < 1311401046 389775 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind ^^; < 1311401054 985958 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311401064 570224 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, you could bootstrap a C compiler written in C, using a C compiler not written in C. (I don't know if such a thing exists. :P) < 1311401068 322565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, fizzie, you am done confound me. < 1311401074 87054 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you could compile it *by hand*. < 1311401079 138333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: zeta c was written in lisp, I think < 1311401102 90371 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one meaning of bootstrap is to have a compiler for a language written in itself then right? < 1311401106 202776 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WEB program is itself written in WEB, although if you have the file TANGLE.PAS then you can start from there and then you can modify TANGLE.WEB and compile (with or without modification) WEAVE.WEB too. < 1311401107 717585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Yes. < 1311401119 280272 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there C compilers written in assembly languages? < 1311401126 928394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably < 1311401132 889014 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: None notable, at least. < 1311401166 333745 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter is probably a better word < 1311401185 587853 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, you could also have the bootstrapping compiler run on an interpreter. < 1311401204 565097 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C interpreter written in assembly language would also work since the C compiler could then compile itself < 1311401213 551681 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's how GHC started off. < 1311401249 632222 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: basically every compiler written in its own language must have been bootstrapped at one point. < 1311401291 274395 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311401298 691824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1311401301 447917 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311401307 703104 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly, bootstrapping compilers annoy me. I dislike circular dependencies. < 1311401310 253460 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are several options for how that could happen: a compiler written in another language, an interpreter written in another language, or (probably the very first languages) by hand. < 1311401314 577157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but but @ < 1311401325 687588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's not circular if it's portable < 1311401327 892798 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oro. < 1311401331 429691 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am very much confused < 1311401333 192140 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For Linux package management. < 1311401344 878549 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahhaha < 1311401345 76411 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't GHC circular? < 1311401347 44820 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Namely, I dislike GCC having a build dependency on GCC. < 1311401351 558825 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yes. < 1311401358 7026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: a package manager that can't handle circular dependencies is broken < 1311401363 674983 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: for example erlang was originally interpreted in prolog (and still has a very similar syntax) < 1311401368 317304 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Build dependencies. < 1311401374 549827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yep < 1311401388 322580 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the bootstrapped section just the minimum necessary to build the rest? < 1311401427 808832 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see now.. < 1311401435 160939 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is when you update a language < 1311401445 964277 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the updates to the language are coded in the language < 1311401448 111094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you can't use a feature you just implemented in the compiler without bootstrapping < 1311401456 858944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1311401477 386906 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you begin in say, C/asm, for example.. < 1311401486 450516 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The only way to solve circular build dependencies is manual intervention so that the package depending on itself actually exists before you build it. Which is *really annoying*. < 1311401500 466010 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i guess it doesn't matter what you begin in < 1311401504 350751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: or it could install a binary first < 1311401507 844689 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :same shit really < 1311401535 444727 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yesss, that's manual intervention so that the package depending on itself actually exists before you build it. < 1311401540 362150 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is really annoying. < 1311401557 980788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: no, that's doing it in the package manager < 1311401567 605495 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still *really annoying*. < 1311401613 251915 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the fundamental idea though is about initially writing a minimal compiler/interpreter in say: C, C++, Lisp, Haskell, what-have-you.. and using that to compile/interpret a new version of your language < 1311401632 227150 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using that to build your language < 1311401646 726764 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311401697 222036 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that it very much depends on many things. < 1311401723 264774 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you wouldn't want to rely on an interpreter running underneath your language < 1311401747 977546 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed interpreters written in the language itself aren't useful for bootstrapping :P < 1311401771 482876 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are still uses for those < 1311401796 584617 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can see that you could tell lisp to output asm code for an interpreter. < 1311401825 111179 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh... or something < 1311401826 416642 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp may have both an interpreter and a compiler for itself, where the interpreter is used for quick running and the compiler is used for optimizing < 1311401866 666687 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside the same implementation < 1311401870 762846 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i mean.. suppose you wanted to implement a brainfuck interpreter. you wouldn't want to have the interpreter running on top of an interpreter. < 1311401872 333090 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Lisp almost always has a self-interpreter. That's the "eval" part of REPL. :P < 1311401916 823892 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you might < 1311401918 708003 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well it _might_ but it could also compile on the fly immediately, like ghc does < 1311401931 90597 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, true... < 1311401931 561251 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ghci < 1311401950 197996 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's still a slightly simpler compilation to bytecode < 1311402028 933213 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, i figure you only really want 1 layer of interpreters running most of the time < 1311402046 281673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it's ok to use an interpreter to run your initial compiler, though, since that's a one time thing < 1311402047 790311 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2 for cases wheer it doesn't matter < 1311402082 568223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sbcl compiles to native code always, fwiw < 1311402090 285090 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311402103 410047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including in the repl < 1311402116 756626 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you wouldn't really want to load haskell, and then load brainfuck on top of it, and then supply a brainfuck interpreter's source to that < 1311402170 564467 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you would < 1311402171 905593 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311402182 471600 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just not really moving things forward < 1311402198 204631 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well for esolangs you might want to just because it can be done < 1311402208 139034 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, its not such a bad idea < 1311402208 689147 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: my unlambda interpreter in unlambda) < 1311402229 833637 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just in the habit of attaching a value judgement to everything i say < 1311402420 569575 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise if you value efficiency you'd want to get a compiler pretty soon, or at least an interpreter that is itself compiled < 1311402495 241891 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy.. < 1311405131 406667 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's odd? < 1311405148 214686 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What my brother calls an awkward turtle is different to what I do < 1311405160 891904 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an awkward turtle < 1311405172 818520 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a personality type i think < 1311405179 42212 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a clumsy tortoise < 1311405179 839820 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turtle goes into their shell < 1311405181 512701 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hand signal made during awkward silences < 1311405186 809387 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. lol < 1311405203 924070 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point of it is to change the subject to the awkward turtle < 1311405238 399900 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things feel artificial to me. subject changes to how artificial they feel. nobodys happy. < 1311405242 154813 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to make things more awkward and then sink deper into depression < 1311405254 749044 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic itidus20 < 1311405305 63776 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311405321 35016 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote David Morgan Mar, "If you find yourself in an awkward silence... Fill it! Say something! Anything! You will never have a better chance to make an awkward situation even more awkward!" < 1311405322 385478 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything seems to go wrong < 1311405383 411854 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he ever come here? < 1311405411 59741 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to my knowledge < 1311405416 66964 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think he does < 1311405421 778080 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :has he ever? :P < 1311405437 33822 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :same answers? < 1311405440 646088 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure he's seen the wiki < 1311405442 150847 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats fascinating < 1311405444 999728 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahaha < 1311405483 779649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the bloglike section on Mezzacotta hasn't been updated for over a year < 1311405512 83331 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course he has scary time planning powers, so he probably wouldn't fit in something that useless < 1311405516 91691 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like.. which friggen esolang club does he hang with then? < 1311405528 430584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Square Root of Minus Garfield has an update yesterday, so presumably that's still going < 1311405532 714975 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought this was the only one < 1311405539 806769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does Lightning Made of Owls < 1311405550 704319 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well afaik all his esolangs are old... < 1311405561 125326 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1311405579 152583 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the webcomics, bar Awkward Fumbles, are active < 1311405589 629224 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Infinity on 30 Credits a Day < 1311405604 79137 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually LMoO is skipping many updates nowadays < 1311405617 604885 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its funny how that works out < 1311405618 389457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1311405626 41782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, it would astonish me if it came out daily < 1311405634 236930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still being updated when there are submisisons < 1311405635 951657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*submissions < 1311405747 794809 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SRoMG shows no signs of abating < 1311405882 337070 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the mezzacotta comic is rather dead if you look at the hall of fame section, not enough votes. although just this week some started trickling through. < 1311405908 494148 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sqrt(-garfield) is brilliant. < 1311405963 471387 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1311405982 825717 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually read some of it before coming here < 1311406012 133065 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really tore apart the comic medium in fun ways < 1311406014 636618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1311406034 662089 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Also, it's producing something intelligent out of Garfield. < 1311406053 444764 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is quite a feat. < 1311406132 901681 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure if I approve of Scott McCloud though. HE should try his hand at esolang though < 1311406148 297229 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that Garfield is a comic written for one purpose: making money... < 1311406165 86945 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scott McCloud is the most likely person to publish a book about esolangs :D < 1311406173 136137 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has the mindset < 1311406181 163861 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just doesn't know it yet. < 1311406280 120652 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Mr. McCloud will never be Jack Kirby or Akira Toriyama. < 1311406307 890149 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, as far as can see there is no evidence that DMM has ever edited our wiki. < 1311406311 618838 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i can < 1311406323 641406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im sobbing loudly < 1311406332 205967 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he somewhat a celeb in esolang terms? < 1311406348 362490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it's separate, he's an esolang designer /and/ a celebrity < 1311406351 209076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a celeb in every term. well, apart from the one normal people use. < 1311406352 559032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not famous for esolang design < 1311406353 239287 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1311406360 95945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he writes this webcomic :P < 1311406369 269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he writes a somewhat popular webcomic < 1311406377 473035 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Irregular Webcomic!" < 1311406383 998097 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a heavy hand in several others < 1311406384 309271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Vorpal isn't appreciating this feature I coded into mcmap, probably because he's away; please tell me about how great it is < 1311406393 840226 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually discovered DMM when I started asking someone a question "theres not really any popular australian websites like google, yahoo etc" < 1311406397 381529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I, umm, don't know what it does and why it's useful < 1311406402 648563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you managed to do something nontrivial in Java < 1311406406 209595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's worth an accolade of itself < 1311406409 77309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: im lol < 1311406412 583133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who said it was java??? < 1311406417 68962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good point < 1311406419 238852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mcmap is a proxy, it's pure retrostyle c99 < 1311406420 929387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it was a Minecraft plugin < 1311406424 944216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, it's fizzie's project < 1311406426 456354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "retrostyle c99"? < 1311406428 384094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I also write some stuff for < 1311406428 891233 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i went on wiki and found DMM < 1311406437 162724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, fizzie thinks this is the nineties, and does things like use bitshifts instead of division < 1311406443 235490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and mark functions "inline" < 1311406444 437338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's adorable < 1311406445 490006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1311406452 17030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use bitshifts instead of division when it's clearer < 1311406473 929999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, if I'm dividing by a large power of 2, it's clearer to write x >> 20 than x / (1 << 20) < 1311406479 732151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or worse, x / 1048576 < 1311406504 595039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x >> 1 vs. x / 2, though, they're pretty much equal in terms of legibility < 1311406555 155503 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Australian_websites "Irregular Webcomic!" < 1311406560 267481 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but you're using bitshift when, logically, you are shifting bits. < 1311406565 733902 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found him by that means < 1311406569 582946 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which is only proper. < 1311406581 392098 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the shift is zero-extend? < 1311406594 125434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and he tries to make things thread-safe by marking them volatile < 1311406606 370234 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *wince* < 1311406610 935461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: dont wnice its amazing < 1311406621 941586 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM is the most famous esoteric programming language inventor with a PhD in Astrophysics < 1311406629 130398 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the "make the compiler stupid" button. < 1311406629 465043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can respect a man who uses macros because he doesn't trust the compiler enough to optimise an inline function < 1311406642 225848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well it _is_ a mutex < 1311406655 997020 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :australia kicks ass < 1311406664 10915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that, umm, can actualy work sometimes < 1311406670 474789 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lived in Australia for 11 months < 1311406670 892202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(making things volatile to make them thread-safe) < 1311406672 4257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: hmm, the most popular australian website may be Whirlpool (it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head) < 1311406680 318670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm not sure /why/ it's famous, because it's all about Australian ISPs < 1311406680 851476 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have kangaroos and DMM and isn't afraid of anything < 1311406682 614296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know it anyway < 1311406689 79137 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And in some cases, it just makes the compiler stupid. < 1311406692 479596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but expecting it to happen without knowing why is probably going to end in failure < 1311406694 255081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote australia kicks ass we have kangaroos and DMM and isn't afraid of anything < 1311406697 723995 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :541) australia kicks ass we have kangaroos and DMM and isn't afraid of anything < 1311406703 743267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suspect the most popular Australian website is google.au < 1311406706 412630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but am not certain < 1311406709 784519 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends quite heavily on what you're doing. < 1311406710 527353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not really an _Australian_ website < 1311406712 665736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I meant most famous < 1311406736 942057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how many Australians are proud of kangaroos despite having never seen one
< 1311406747 595278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION resists urge to say "Google's pretty famous"
< 1311406764 472068 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly, there are some feral wallabees in Scotland < 1311406766 750360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're fairly common in the Australian countryside, aren't they? and even citybound Australians probably see them in zoos < 1311406774 934186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I've seen a kangaroo, in a zoo < 1311406796 572558 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a kangaroo in a zoo... in AUSTRALIA < 1311406801 84707 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to travel far to see one.. you just have to leave the cities < 1311406813 121141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was a nice rhyme < 1311406818 701567 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're everywhere once you actually get away from suburbia < 1311406826 314105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: coincidental, and it doesn't scan properly < 1311406828 577394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kangaroo / in a zoo / there's pretty much no way this rhyme isn't going to end up talking about kangaroo poo, so I'm stopping it here < 1311406840 775968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's a good rhyme in a bad context to put a rhyme in < 1311406846 915466 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime you go camping in melbourne you're bound to see one < 1311406877 15032 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1311406882 683087 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're everywhere < 1311406890 363753 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just they're not in suburbia < 1311406890 561720 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees a reasonable path to getting an Erdos-Bacon number of 65
< 1311406891 745973 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*6 < 1311406919 450161 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get out much.. but i have seen them in the wild several times < 1311406936 707606 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Do tell. < 1311406949 820800 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, s/Erdos/Erdős/ < 1311406954 825368 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :every encounter with a kangaroo tends to be memorable too < 1311406983 248947 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they would get boring quickly enough < 1311407028 868848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 65??? WOOOOOOOOOOW < 1311407053 934688 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect 65 might actually be _harder_ than 6 < 1311407089 743397 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: My father has a Bacon number of 3; there are multiple profs at UW with Erd(I don't know how to compose the accent with my keyboard layout)s numbers of 1 < 1311407111 353002 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, it's Compose = o < 1311407127 795109 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Although my father's Bacon number of 3 doesn't apply if you only count credited actors < 1311407132 77511 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :as he was an extra < 1311407138 530619 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: like in SML iirc < 1311407142 919271 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I haven't run the cast list of the film to see if he actually has a 2) < 1311407148 144506 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crediting doesn't typically matter for Erdős-Bacon. < 1311407160 54862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it Erdős * Bacon that you're using to do the calculation? or appending digits? < 1311407167 777928 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erdős + Bacon < 1311407172 207767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1311407177 178220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 65 is really quite difficult? < 1311407188 330593 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have a time machine. < 1311407201 321024 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye, everyone < 1311407207 747440 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311407209 52186 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, you can be enough generations removed to pull it off. < 1311407223 851042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know what my Erdős number is < 1311407240 194849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm pretty sure I have one, given that I've coauthored papers with people who have coauthored lots of papers < 1311407241 379194 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION really would like for Bacon to appear in a film using stock footage of Erdős.
< 1311407253 559658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: to give the lowest possible value of 1? < 1311407261 422421 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311407262 152729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be funnier if they coauthored a paper < 1311407270 506562 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: grep https://files.oakland.edu/users/grossman/enp/Erdos2.html < 1311407273 495783 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well i assume you'd have to get a long chain of people to cooperate with each other to get it that high < 1311407285 213558 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Or time. < 1311407290 665353 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160096.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311407295 671841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq_ really would like for Bacon to appear in a film using stock footage of Erdős. < 1311407299 765269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think something like that actually happened < 1311407321 262795 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was just someone with a Bacon number doing that, though. < 1311407321 460519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Vorpal isn't appreciating this feature I coded into mcmap, probably because he's away; please tell me about how great it is <-- what feature? < 1311407327 426960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or not < 1311407332 214583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see -minecraft < 1311407341 540649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just after you joined < 1311407342 719568 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1311407346 675720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently broken btw :P < 1311407350 421984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i didn't commit the broken < 1311407351 263107 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erdős has an Erdős-Bacon number of 3. < 1311407351 540940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not broken < 1311407380 389179 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh wait you filter URLs < 1311407391 470081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he doesn't < 1311407395 172575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not any more < 1311407401 158994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I delink them < 1311407407 356273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can still see what they say < 1311407409 28581 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the lowest known Erdős-Bacon number, though a few people have that. < 1311407410 615315 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What counts as a "paper" for Erdos number? < 1311407423 409836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an academic paper < 1311407427 404118 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a simple proof with ais523. Does this mean I might have a .. blah < 1311407431 504831 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The *stock* definition is an academic, published paper. < 1311407451 947655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my Erdős number is at least 4, it seems < 1311407455 702868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no. < 1311407479 361857 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly we should collaborate and I should get a research term with one of the two profs at UW I know of with 1 < 1311407484 764801 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will give you a firm 3 < 1311407488 768618 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I will sleep soon. Tell me now or later, if you have more ideas about my optimization problem or any other IRC channels you know that they could discuss these things. < 1311407501 73874 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: > < 1311407517 762343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, clearly, we should write a paper >.> < 1311407523 150428 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I actually have an eye on one in particular since he both works in an area I'm interested in and taught me last term) < 1311407523 348084 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry, it's any research collaboration resulting in a published work. < 1311407531 613370 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311407540 662335 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A collaborative, unique proof would probably count. < 1311407543 702740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, does that mean that elliott has an Erdős number because I mentioned what I was doing to him? < 1311407546 903433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1311407548 660888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he replied? < 1311407554 1235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: everyone you have EVER LOOKED AT has an erdos number now < 1311407561 380107 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is our GoE proof unique? < 1311407578 312605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know what you're referring to < 1311407584 538904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mean, my coding style is slightly influenced by elliott < 1311407590 522878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from being exposed to his programs < 1311407598 65556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I did a lot of programming towards one of the papers < 1311407615 433489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm still trying to figure out why I switched from Allman-style braces to K&R-style, though) < 1311407619 794855 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that thing about any sufficiently small pattern in a bounded Game of Life universe being a result of some Garden of Eden < 1311407626 662020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for when I'm not trolling with EOL braces) < 1311407634 744135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it probably isn't new < 1311407640 751145 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, darn < 1311407641 488498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else has probably wondered that at some point < 1311407651 148430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, I mean, my coding style is slightly influenced by elliott < 1311407652 62185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1311407655 420683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this just in a butterfly effect sense < 1311407672 881135 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is the result, precisely? < 1311407679 956607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I've had style arguments with you, and they help to sharpen my opinions of my own position < 1311407689 741716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've started using K&R/OTBS style for no obvious reason at all < 1311407702 44853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap puts { on the line after branch constructs and it makes me unhappy < 1311407708 798445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OTB style < 1311407719 426284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I used to do that, because the books I learned C from did < 1311407741 996177 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really dislike {-on-its-own-line < 1311407742 943420 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, every sufficiently small (5 width and height smaller than the universe) pattern in a bounded Game of Life universe has at least one Garden of Eden that results in it. < 1311407747 354785 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1311407753 409534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you really dislike }-on-its-own-line? < 1311407760 155957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTBS is like Perl, it's inconsistent in the name of looking nice < 1311407761 128494 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do < 1311407766 901770 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not) < 1311407783 424932 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: interesting. What's the proof? < 1311407789 698224 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also bounded -> toroidal? < 1311407812 555201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, another plausible indentation style is { lined up with if(x), on the same line as the line after, and } at the end of the line, next to the margin (i.e. column 78) < 1311407821 919847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why nobody uses it? < 1311407830 741267 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ewwww < 1311407837 998845 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes, although it works with other topologies. And probably also with always-off beyond a point, but not sure, and ais523 wasn't paying attention. < 1311407850 692967 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, let's see if I can remember it offhand. It's somewhere in logs < 1311407853 978221 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "yes" is not a proof :P < 1311407872 894695 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes was to bounded -> toroidal < 1311407884 512248 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1311407896 265025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: now I'm trying to think of something that's proved by infinitely many copies of the letter 'y' < 1311407898 659812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523, here's a screenshot you won't understand: http://i.imgur.com/Oygim.png < 1311407898 857683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't < 1311407908 408906 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that there is no coding-style applicator editor that i have heard of
< 1311407908 857284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could make a decent counterexample to various banal and pointless statemetns < 1311407919 663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : coppro: now I'm trying to think of something that's proved by infinitely many copies of the letter 'y' < 1311407925 197801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there exists an infinite stream of 'y's" < 1311407931 481223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(constructive-style proof) < 1311407933 94788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: something vaguely interesting < 1311407938 242665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you mean a reformatting editor? < 1311407947 177807 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The only thing I dislike more than putting opening braces on their own line is putting them on their own line AND indenting them halfway < 1311407949 176923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that there exists infinite anything would be considered interesting to some people < 1311407951 363180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see ultrafinitists :P) < 1311407951 875049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: several programs, like Emacs and Kate, will shuffle lines left and right to comply with a coding style you give them < 1311407960 447927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBeans, at least, will completely re-pretty-print your program if you tell it to < 1311407967 873308 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vim < 1311407985 230398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps you should give ultrafinitists a copy of yes < 1311407989 404879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and watch their minds explode < 1311407989 785377 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: I can independantly discover any feature given enough time < 1311407998 245429 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, in a bounded universe, every pattern is either a oscillator or a precursor to one. < 1311408018 387441 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(counting things like empty universe as an oscillator) < 1311408033 586108 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160096.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311408034 281851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I assume it's Minecraft-related; the first thing that came into mind when I saw it was that it was a Dwarf Fortress map dump < 1311408042 167115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Minecraft map dumps are likely to look similar < 1311408045 389020 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no infinite growth patterns. Eventually, you're going to start repeating. < 1311408047 474432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as people do similar things to the map in those games < 1311408055 923907 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Right. I know that result < 1311408074 652686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y < 1311408076 70247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y < 1311408077 758455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y < 1311408098 634130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I assume it's Minecraft-related; the first thing that came into mind when I saw it was that it was a Dwarf Fortress map dump < 1311408104 904222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really a dump, more a live view < 1311408134 500986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: perhaps you should give ultrafinitists a copy of yes < 1311408134 698546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and watch their minds explode < 1311408145 193873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they'd, unfortunately correctly, probably argue that it was still bound by C's restrictions < 1311408148 659940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, if they were IN THE KNOW < 1311408153 939272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they know the OS is written in C < 1311408155 239180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes doesn't count its iterations, does it? < 1311408160 862875 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you take a pattern that's just a precursor, and work "backwards" (for all possibilities of backwards), you can't end up with the same pattern again, otherwise, it wouldn't be a precursor < 1311408173 296035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, but the OS has to print it out < 1311408177 292075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and depending on what you're outputting, the OS doesn't have to either < 1311408182 81399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*outputting to < 1311408186 38785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you're outputting to a parallel printer < 1311408186 664571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, but the hardware will still degrade :P < 1311408192 276730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to run out of paper eventually, I suppose < 1311408198 95059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ys will still be there conceptually < 1311408199 6462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could print to screen and wipe anything that trails off < 1311408201 91660 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't go "backwards" infinitely, it has to stop sometime before 2^area < 1311408236 517923 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How come Junethack has muted goals in AceHack? Isn't AceHack basically vanilla for the purposes of gameplay? < 1311408249 139466 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So every precursor has a Garden of Eden that results in it. < 1311408255 325421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's because I didn't want to break save compatibility to add a patch that was implemented really badly < 1311408261 140462 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: right < 1311408263 948977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I restricted myself to stuff that the game tracked already < 1311408268 324781 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently (according to the source of translations of the tipitaka) buddha said that the first being in a realm(not sure if i have this right) assumes himself to be god < 1311408270 91412 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1311408280 50235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :planning to play in junethack, btw? < 1311408289 833764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are muted goals? < 1311408295 776194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm still astounded that Slashdot accepted the story) < 1311408300 127851 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, for every pattern of a certain size or smaller, you can trivially make a precursor by putting a single live cell outside of causal contact with the pattern. Therefore, the pattern has a precursor, and therefore, there's a Garden of Eden that results in it. < 1311408302 820155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're not really muted, just slightly different than the other variants < 1311408318 947435 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: muted meaning less difficult < 1311408330 6827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, the submitter of the slashdot submission is the one with that insulting crawl infodb entry < 1311408337 673176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did I forget anything/make any mistakes? < 1311408338 507429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well insulting-ish :P < 1311408340 40584 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that in particular because "beat sokoban" is replaced with "consult the oracle" < 1311408347 840540 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the others are close to isomorphic < 1311408351 73347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(long story involving monqy as to why I know/recall this so recently) < 1311408351 271367 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or be too long-winded for something simple? < 1311408362 759342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I wasn't playing attention < 1311408367 930601 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the luckstone from mine's end isn't < 1311408369 793650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bhaak is the developer of UnNetHack < 1311408374 382894 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's replaced with getting into the quest < 1311408378 406782 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ping < 1311408380 192743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bhaak < 1311408380 471273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still believes that Nethack is the most popular roguelike. < 1311408380 669034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also believes that the earth is flat. < 1311408380 669131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happens to maintain a Nethack fork, UnNethack. If you're curious how a Nethack with some thoughts spent on balance could look like, give it a try: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/ < 1311408380 669174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is on the record as stating that he is not a shark. < 1311408381 751084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likes ke$ha" < 1311408390 501883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly the person with the most (although not the largest volume) of AceHack patches but me < 1311408399 6260 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: makes sense < 1311408407 672475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodplayers < 1311408407 870888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 wins. Add yourself to the list with !nick goodplayers yourname. Don't be a monqy and delete the list. < 1311408407 871112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of wins required to be a goodplayer increases over time. It is defined to be one more win than monqy currently has, except when it gets fixed at nice numbers like 10 or 27 for a while. < 1311408415 526022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy needs to extricate himself from this learndb < 1311408443 976885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitpic.com/monqy <-- google search result for monqy, COINCIDENC???? < 1311408452 529358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a picture of a twit? < 1311408483 764748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd be very surprised if Crawl were more popular than NetHack < 1311408489 594646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Crawl's playerbase, I expect to be easier to count < 1311408492 626917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wouldn't, at all < 1311408492 905572 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Now, for the killer question: can you work out whether this applies in the totally general case? < 1311408502 89749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack's a part of UNIX culture, Crawl isn't < 1311408509 541432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nobody on Windows plays NetHack, lots of people on Windows play Crawl (tiles, universally) < 1311408516 876305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes I know not "nobody" etc. etc. etc.) < 1311408522 553880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: most of the YouTube results for NetHack are played on Windows < 1311408524 256802 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, general as in generalizes to other rules, or to infinite sized universes? < 1311408525 369799 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Fushigi no Dungeon. < 1311408530 139552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also see sheer volume of DCSS on http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes, although I realise the sample might be biased < 1311408533 735631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bad logic < 1311408538 366703 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: To all finite patterns < 1311408538 564815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1311408539 71671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X=>Y =/= Y=>X < 1311408550 87938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a series of Japanese console rogue-likes) < 1311408551 910351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be very surprised if NetHack had more active players than DCSS < 1311408554 136652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still relevant, you just have to plug the numbers into Bayes' Theorem < 1311408560 339399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you don't have to tell me what the Mystery Dungeon series is < 1311408564 515420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to be a Bayesian < 1311408568 577402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the games in it are released in the UK too < 1311408573 820098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"monqy < 1311408574 17739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :killed good players, is a horrible person" < 1311408574 215339 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not everyone would know. < 1311408576 586243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311408599 794990 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, good question, I'd like to try, but I have no reason to believe I can. I am currently mentally playing with more GoE stuff though < 1311408621 543975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually quite a fan of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon; its bonus levels (Zero Island) have a balance unlike anything I've seen in any other roguelike, and are sufficiently fun that I'm considering writing my own roguelike based on similar principles < 1311408637 130939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like what I think Crawl ought to be like, rather than what it actually is like < 1311408639 44925 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interesting; your recommendation might make me pick one up < 1311408660 587113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: be careful; the first 85% or so of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon is insultingly easy, and you have to play through it before you reach the fun part < 1311408671 822966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people have given up before they reach it < 1311408676 444354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :squarelos totally looks like spanish ors omething < 1311408695 44994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is going to reply to this with an opinion on squarelos < 1311408708 636111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, I'm not good enough at Crawl to have a serious opinion on it < 1311408719 608285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently, the developers mostly dislike it, and the top players mostly like it < 1311408735 206851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the wider playerbase mostly dislikes it because it looks worse than circlelos, but I'm not sure < 1311408741 657366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: monqy seems to be behind it < 1311408765 190215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, we need to inundate him with these mixed opinions < 1311408793 176398 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was planning to go for the discount bin anyways < 1311408934 78445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: completely unscientific comparison based on seeing a link to an SA forums thread in the crawl learndb: Crawl's thread has amassed 141 pages in three months; I can't even /find/ a thread for NetHack, but Minecraft's has attained 574 in six months < 1311408952 165637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fair to say that Crawl is the most popular roguelike THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY THINK IS A ROGUELIKE WHEN THEY'RE PLAYING IT OK OK PIKHQ < 1311409056 114621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now back to mcmap < 1311409085 502251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another completely unscientific comparison: NetHack's been slashdotted more often than Crawl < 1311409144 689026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, /come on/ < 1311409151 116963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about seven hundred times more biased than mine < 1311409194 459439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the SA thread for Crawl was, for ages, the main forum to discuss the game < 1311409199 888114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it's mentioned there < 1311409204 415295 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a? < 1311409207 959587 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sa? < 1311409212 605040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: something awful < 1311409222 412879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they moved away to the Tavern because they didn't like a pay site having most of the discussion about the game < 1311409224 249573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the largest forums on the internet, with some site that nobody reads attached to it < 1311409241 194755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the largest paid forum, I wonder? < 1311409241 889557 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is indeed something awful < 1311409253 868947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like many of the 4chan boards are presumably larger, but you don't have to pay to post there < 1311409255 226527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: according to http://www.big-boards.com/, no; offtopic.com is larger < 1311409269 546170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what an original joke < 1311409269 744133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I'm not surprised there are forum rankings < 1311409278 397815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you only mentioned one other forum, so I'm guessing that they're second < 1311409283 959161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately, that ranking omits the largest forum on the internet because it doesn't have the data they want < 1311409290 627343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, they're just the only one I remember being pay-for < 1311409292 336637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1311409294 484434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked the biggest ones out a while back for some reason < 1311409302 787678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the largest forum on the internet is 2channel, by a large margin) < 1311409308 477750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that makes sense < 1311409310 418762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but they don't have e.g. membership information as they don't have members) < 1311409320 795336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait "Registration Optional, USD33.00/year" < 1311409322 573658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they do :-P < 1311409341 96064 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :does a paid forum end up being better? < 1311409385 405432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: depends on what you mean by "better" < 1311409397 925510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to discourage a huge number of potential posters, and probably many readers too < 1311409410 359346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not necessarily going to be a bad thing < 1311409433 198716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has ended up coding mcmap in gedit, I wonder why?
< 1311409441 16672 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a weird idea < 1311409452 785551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know why, it's because vi displays tabs as spaces, so I can't copy and paste properly with my terminal, and because emacs just feels wrong here < 1311409452 983499 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=2012-12-22 My goodness that is wonderful. < 1311409472 111155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SA seems to do well enough with those: < 1311409472 806005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :5,187 Users Logged In < 1311409473 84759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3,550 registered users logged in. < 1311409473 282295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :155,024 users total. < 1311409481 840913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, it's probably one of the only successful for-pay forums.) < 1311409485 728071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you're a paid forum, being big is definitely to your advantage < 1311409493 943646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like if you're a social network, being big is definitely to your advantage < 1311409494 974204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obvious statements woo :P < 1311409504 692064 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what is so special about that date? < 1311409515 678136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you can figure that one ou < 1311409515 955883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1311409520 263140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: haha, that must have been specialcased < 1311409521 902575 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Day after the Mayan calendar ends. < 1311409526 202037 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Undoubtedly. < 1311409527 732039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1311409529 612968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=2012-12-20 is the same < 1311409540 874108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=2012-11-01 < 1311409544 100357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing something wrong < 1311409547 318105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, duh < 1311409548 209221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, those comics haven't been written yet < 1311409549 784357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't see future comics < 1311409559 285570 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah, it only peeks into the past. < 1311409568 534028 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know the date < 1311409574 461271 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nothing seemed special about that site at that date < 1311409584 766288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, that the comic didn't exist < 1311409592 453601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on account of the universe not existing, just like mezzacotta extends back to the beginning of time < 1311409601 327121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only amusing if you know what mezzacotta is < 1311409640 577891 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not < 1311409660 616096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-assemblies-of-god-holy-bible-god/1030075545?ean=2940012671967&itm=2&usri=assembly%2bof%2bgod oh, this pattern of "helpful" votes isn't suspicious < 1311409681 344277 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It is a webcomic which has an update for every day. < 1311409686 788875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the largest archives of any webcomic ever < 1311409705 150097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, MSPA will surpass it in a few years, I'm sure < 1311409715 122415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it was going as a newspaper comic before it first came online, and as a pamphlet comic before that, and as a stone carving comic before that < 1311409730 219119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a plsama painting comic before that < 1311409731 53016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plasma < 1311409735 615402 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, every day on the proleptic Gregorian calendar. < 1311409774 629938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then some. < 1311409777 871337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GUESS MY JOKE TRULY WAS THAT BAD < 1311409788 944360 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-9999999999999-01-01 Here's the earliest comic. < 1311409789 778786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: DMM could tell that the Gregorian calendar was going to be introduced millions of years before it was, so he worked on that assumption < 1311409798 631919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my fingers tried to tab-complete Gregorian, and it half-worked < 1311409806 48585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1311409810 150030 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311409819 672833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "I think this comic is going downhill." must have been special-cased as the first line < 1311409855 326737 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, you should read all of them. < 1311409857 853839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it could just be chance < 1311409876 227565 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a comic worth archive-binging. < 1311409885 138327 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since you'll need to invent immortality to do so. < 1311409895 780894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but /come on/ :P < 1311409896 622251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ais523, or, perhaps the function determining the comic was designed with that result in mind < 1311409897 413239 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not necessarily immortality. < 1311409906 32190 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just being highly prolonged. < 1311409936 494198 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh.. is mezzacotta a procedural comic? < 1311409943 244740 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311409947 97840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: no, it is hand-written by the comic irregulars < 1311409948 484946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: fuck you < 1311409951 418689 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or DMM is amazing. < 1311409959 893686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS NOT JUST DMM DO NOT DISCOUNT THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF OTHERS < 1311409975 304927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's mezzacotta is funny < 1311409991 934514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the first and second panels should be swapped < 1311410031 952578 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311410037 17868 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The rod of alertness is planted (set) to prevent each instance of a beetle." < 1311410057 966491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION really wants to play frictionless tennis now
< 1311410179 757345 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311410234 194161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the D&D markov chain person strikes again? < 1311410241 385926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311410273 514614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: one of the mezzacotta people just does markov chains of the d20 SRD (basically, D&D minus trademarks) < 1311410290 840639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and itidus20's quote sounds like it was generated like that < 1311410320 808572 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a tetris dude < 1311410324 280542 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes by holdnext < 1311410327 413119 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh < 1311410335 519330 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear to god every post he makes sounds like a markov chain text generator < 1311410338 458582 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so theres actually characters < 1311410338 815971 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently he's a real person < 1311410362 668750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um fizzie < 1311410367 89319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Uint32 v = *b; < 1311410367 287389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (v < 64) < 1311410367 287579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : rgba = RGBA_OPAQUE(4*v, 4*v, 0); < 1311410367 287688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1311410367 287795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : rgba = RGBA_OPAQUE(255, 255-4*(v-64), 0); < 1311410369 554014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is the array of blocks < 1311410374 264773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you want to use y, not v?... < 1311410397 463897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wiat no < 1311410400 623251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is different for that < 1311410401 40359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1311410621 565875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1311410621 845147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int lv_block = c->light_blocks[bx*(CHUNK_ZSIZE*CHUNK_YSIZE/2) + bz*(CHUNK_YSIZE/2) + ly/2]; < 1311410622 42910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int lv_day = c->light_sky[bx*(CHUNK_ZSIZE*CHUNK_YSIZE/2) + bz*(CHUNK_YSIZE/2) + ly/2]; < 1311410622 43089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (ly & 1) < 1311410622 43196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lv_block >>= 4, lv_day >>= 4; < 1311410622 401138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1311410622 629445 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not being one-to-one is not considered sufficient of a function for it to be called one-way (see Theoretical Definition, below)."? < 1311410624 576256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : lv_block &= 0xf, lv_day &= 0xf; < 1311410624 773866 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1311410626 407125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :typical mcmap code < 1311410644 593849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, stupid italics indentation < 1311410650 66030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my client interprets tab as "toggle italics") < 1311410663 128060 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yes, those are different concepts. < 1311410690 766268 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one-to-one == injective (probably what you want for GOL stuff) < 1311410700 380111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the bitshifts/bitmasks are correct there, as it looks like it's trying to unpack a format that packs multiple 4-bit chunks into an octet < 1311410703 120077 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm on this page for different reasons < 1311410704 451999 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one-way = cryptographical < 1311410706 460967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mathematical behaviour is irrelevant < 1311410729 979777 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and I'm kind of just wondering about hashes not necessarily being one-way < 1311410760 777836 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: well no one has proved that one-way functions definitely _exist_ < 1311410782 905242 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(requires P != NP) < 1311410793 127694 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go to sleep now < 1311410840 995037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does not require P != NP; if checking is O(n^2) and breaking is O(n^999), it's going to be safe for all practical purposes with high enough n < 1311410859 285921 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well depends on your precise definition then < 1311410880 638906 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :P != NP iff P != 0 and N != 1 < 1311410888 396593 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311410895 324663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been made before < 1311410921 837430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what if P = +Inf, N = 2? < 1311410924 376886 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :+Inf is not a number < 1311410936 67371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's NaN < 1311410943 409969 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) == (0/0) < 1311410944 424987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1311410947 802577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: +Inf * 2 = +Inf < 1311410954 992648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * 2 < 1311410955 967841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1311410968 652682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke < 1311410977 554647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would just like you to know that I edit mcmap with four-wide tabs < 1311410977 752967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1311410980 700690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in response to coppro < 1311410989 411421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : YOU ARE LIVING A LIE < 1311411014 53016 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who doesn't use four-wide tabs for stuff? < 1311411019 303975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not edit it with half-width spaces too? < 1311411026 171765 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: FREAKS < 1311411028 352971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SOOO ANGRYYYYYYYYY < 1311411033 49353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: oh god don't < 1311411037 809341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not me, so he'll actually respond < 1311411041 40056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'll be here for hours < 1311411088 820988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually posted that Linux coding style guide quote to someone in a different channel earlier < 1311411095 756144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we were about to get into a tabs vs. spaces vs. tabs=8 war < 1311411099 935036 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go to sleep < 1311411106 526185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it killed the conversation, obviously they were unable to argue with ti < 1311411107 718787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : when we were about to get into a tabs vs. spaces vs. tabs=8 war < 1311411108 75451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1311411109 955002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh ais523 < 1311411118 784234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you implicitly acknowledged that there MAY exist tabs that are not equal to eight psaces there < 1311411125 134482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better be careful!!!! < 1311411139 979566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I acknowledge that some people use tabs for purposes that most programs are incapable of reading < 1311411146 635465 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, I meant "4 spaces for each indent level" when someone said tabs < 1311411151 686213 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hides
< 1311411160 374641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only programs I can think of where tab width is variable, are some programming editors, and word processors < 1311411163 871017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else uses tab=8 < 1311411170 838287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, QBasic uses tab=14, but it's insane) < 1311411171 36495 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my Python is showing < 1311411173 598708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hehehehhehehe WOW LOOKS LIKE I'M NOT GETTING INTO THIS AGAIN WITH YOU how strange < 1311411177 90182 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that sounsd wrong < 1311411339 924782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, ahtewa's using ä in Eodermdrome programs < 1311411341 837736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating! < 1311411348 999573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I suppose I didn't specify the alphabet < 1311411355 904853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does make it more pronounceable < 1311411416 216545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :Tarn was pleased. “The hippos like the sewers!” he said. He took a celebratory swig of Dr. Pepper, and rocked back and forth. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1311411427 557686 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we need to get someone vietnamese to write the eodermdrome C interpreter < 1311411435 639910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all I added was a comma; it's correct either way but means something slightly different now) < 1311411526 568029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it looks to mean the exact same thing to me < 1311411529 824527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I know the context < 1311411541 259655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how has the meaning changed? < 1311411554 170259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think with the comma it implies that the swig of Dr. Pepper and the rocking happen one after the other < 1311411559 692718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without, it leaves it ambiguous as to whether they overlap < 1311411563 680192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311411565 493152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH THE MEANING-CHANGE < 1311411573 107278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "slightly different" < 1311411615 264880 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightldyifferent < 1311411630 387104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the source of that is an amusing read, by the way < 1311411647 474040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's an NY Times article that purports to be about Dwarf Fortress, but is mostly a list of all the ways in which the NY Times writer thinks Tarn is weird < 1311411671 622459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I, err, looked at that article < 1311411684 449479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was paywalled < 1311411697 843313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that paywall is bypassable with a single line of JS, IIRC < 1311411701 66872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's literally just an overlay < 1311411728 623295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in my case, it wouldn't scroll, and I assume the article was longer than a screenful < 1311411736 387492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possibly because I declined cookies and didn't use JS < 1311411783 969377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, you can disable scrolling, I think < 1311411785 155677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fair enough < 1311411796 199042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could see the article greyed-out with the one I'm talking about < 1311411800 229837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't < 1311411872 813859 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1311411898 855707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know how to check whether the window is focused in SDL? < 1311411905 112345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I have to handle the event... < 1311411915 681757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't, I've hardly used SDL < 1311411923 747184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even remember if DNA Maze is written in it or not < 1311411934 131937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I straight-ported it to something, but can't remember if it was SDL, although it seems plausible < 1311411968 589527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is :P < 1311411992 59779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight ports generally don't require much thought < 1311412006 918270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently so, that you can forget what libraries you're working with < 1311412036 981145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've learned very little SDL working on mcmap, although I've mostly left the actual map parts alone until now < 1311412113 119630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311412742 654600 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok so an idea came to me. < 1311412786 323987 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The degree to which a randomly generated world is enjoyable is probably correlated to the amount of cooperative multiplayer conducted within that world < 1311412822 82260 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, always looking for a human meaning < 1311412828 235263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a great many people enjoy single-player minecraft but don't enjoy it online < 1311412836 323797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even cooperatively < 1311412852 863271 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but minecraft at least has NPCs I guess thats the diffeernce < 1311412865 486712 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you don't need humans < 1311412870 709800 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe NPCs are enough < 1311412906 78661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people play in peaceful, and then there are no NPCs inside any real structure < 1311412914 447252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sheep and pigs are generally more of an ignored annoyance outside < 1311412918 860890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cows too < 1311412922 542776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chickens are too tiny to notice < 1311412972 749155 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so.. perhaps it is relative to how busy the persons social life is < 1311412990 320732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the more social the more enjoyable? < 1311412999 911851 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. i mean.. < 1311413002 355323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anything it's the opposite, although I doubt even that; plenty of MC players seem to be sociable < 1311413076 846220 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have much of a social life .. so gradually I don't enjoy being too alone < 1311413106 871257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with the size and speed a lot of builds are constructed, I doubt a lot of the big ones involved too much social interaction during the build period... < 1311413174 490254 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean.. I'm indoors at home all day every day. At first it seemed like the perfect chance to be alone with computers and books. But gradually I found dependance on chatrooms etc < 1311413314 723771 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking for human meaning? mc's randomly generated worlds are way better than those constructed by hand for more expensive games, exactly because they don't look like they've been drawn by a human < 1311413373 681381 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was thinking about this while reading mezzacotta < 1311413381 115365 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well that explains it then < 1311413426 10080 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should not share ideas before they are properly cooked < 1311413444 408841 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311413464 824389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so ais should never have talked about feather? :p < 1311413545 239249 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Well, with the size and speed a lot of builds are constructed, I doubt a lot of the big ones involved too much social interaction during the build period..." <<< doing stuff together is just a more primitive form of social interaction < 1311413607 304389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i referred to solo builds < 1311413620 923217 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry < 1311413636 225839 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :years ago playing final fantasy 3/6 on a SNES I started to imagine "This is great. It's a shame the NPC is 'stuck' to a set of scripted events." not in those exact words < 1311413643 466116 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant they were multiplayer builds but so big and quickly done that the players must've just been building like crazy < 1311413708 994899 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, scripted events... is there a worse < 1311413778 126243 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as I get older, I start to realize you can't replace the storyteller with a computer. < 1311413794 490032 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes the story is well-written < 1311413802 906921 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well read a fucking book < 1311413818 62132 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of games is you can be creative < 1311413828 876097 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the game does a good job of expanding the story in the game < 1311413834 330971 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1311413836 961431 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never does < 1311413838 310266 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1311413841 429741 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1311413842 946181 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never does < 1311413847 766109 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to disagree < 1311413851 577673 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have to agre < 1311413852 147875 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1311413855 46504 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...with myself < 1311413856 126262 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k then < 1311413863 927955 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311413865 597813 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :k indeed < 1311413869 843876 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this disagremeent can be settled in only one fashion < 1311413874 231451 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1311413875 530556 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1311413881 6739 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fight to elliott's death < 1311413902 149737 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro> I have to disagree (with oklopol) well i have to agree (with oklopol) < 1311413919 606639 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has the Magic Spirit of Rightness in him < 1311413932 929941 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person who kills him and takes the Magic Spirit of Rightness will, thereafter, be right < 1311413968 898988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i say oklopol is right because i like him more < 1311413972 478389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue resolved < 1311413978 204958 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" and the game does a good job of expanding the story in the game" <<< afaik, in every game the story can only be expanded locally, or you can explore a few main branches. to me it just feels like they couldn't come up with a long enough story so they added some parts where i have to press x repeatedly. < 1311414023 797654 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :with slightly (very slightly) varying values of pressing x < 1311414043 889256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like pixelcomic is over < 1311414052 463182 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you mocking me? < 1311414068 551500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311414070 780146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THE FACT THAT IT IS NAMED HURRICANE PIXEL IS WHAT MAKES IT INTERESTING < 1311414070 990799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMAGINE A WEATHERMAN IN REALITY TALKING ABOUT "HURRICANE HUMAN" < 1311414071 188761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO WARRANT SUCH A NAME THIS HURRICANE WOULD HAVE TO BE CAPABLE OF DESTROYING THE EARTH < 1311414071 188928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(WHICH WOULD HAVE A DELICIOUSLY IRONIC VALUE IN NAMING IT "HUMAN" MWAHAHA AHEM)" < 1311414075 541145 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure < 1311414078 596245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the annotations of this were ten times better than the comics itself < 1311414079 939004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1311414091 485236 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would've been a rather subtle form of mocking < 1311414105 447205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...:| synchronicity < 1311414107 41922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pixelcomic.net/016.shtml < 1311414110 874409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ARE YOU MOCKING ME OR SOMETHING" < 1311414139 317566 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIXELCOMIC UPDaTeD? < 1311414142 980044 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn shift key < 1311414156 973 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pixelcomic updAtEd < 1311414158 221761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: nope < 1311414162 237808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its index page is now a list of all strips < 1311414165 720135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implies overness to me < 1311414234 52210 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311414291 124629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT ALONE WHEN I SAY THAT < 1311414291 403329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ALWAYS FOUND IT ODD HOW LOIS LANE WAS RENDERED INCAPABLE OF RECOGNIZING SUPERMAN < 1311414291 601454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIMPLY FROM A PAIR OF GLASSES < 1311414291 601664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WONDER IF ANYONE HAS EVER BEEN INSPIRED TO ROB A BANK WEARING GLASSES < 1311414291 601775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THEN SUCCESSFULLY ESCAPE BY THROWING AWAY THE GLASSES AND WALKING CASUALLY < 1311414311 627401 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pixelcomic.net/020.shtml < 1311414314 956109 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are awesome < 1311414371 32460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i love how it'd be a really shitty comic without the annotations making fun of it < 1311414465 893431 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would love it anyway < 1311414469 622481 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, MSPA is more stable now < 1311414475 531433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i read it ages ago < 1311414477 752850 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as good as quimbox but anyway < 1311414484 68174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: less than three hundred comics for yr enjoyment < 1311414507 587269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last strip is pretty much the best < 1311414529 82024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pixelcomic.net/044.shtml <-- oerjan < 1311414723 472653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also what's quimbox < 1311414741 486255 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you read the comic right? < 1311414774 910440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which comic < 1311414781 201320 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quimbox < 1311414783 697414 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have < 1311414790 107974 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you said it was the worst comic in the world < 1311414800 757001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the vjn thing < 1311414815 613799 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311414823 381208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr it being amazing < 1311414829 906097 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway quim = pussy, assuming you live a few hundred years ago < 1311414865 221247 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Magic Spirit of rightness is not transitive < 1311414873 614432 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the punchline is going to be amazing. < 1311414922 299599 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311414951 151677 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I LOVE TO IMAGINE THAT WHEN A PIXEL STARTS ROLLING SOME SNOW < 1311414951 673614 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT AUTOMATICALLY REMAINS SQUARE SHAPED" < 1311414990 291156 :Somelauw!~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw JOIN :#esoteric < 1311414997 942745 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay pretty quickly the annotations turn out crucial for the jokeness < 1311415010 157550 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so my ridiculous gmail plan might actually work < 1311415016 847784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's great :D < 1311415029 69504 :Somelauw!~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw PART :#esoteric < 1311415036 202047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he's like "oops this is totally unfunny, let me say funny things as an annotation" < 1311415073 624500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how even a comic about pixels gets significant art improvement < 1311415110 315457 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GUESS SOME PIXELS BECOME CELEBRITIES FOR BEING IN SO MANY MOVIES < 1311415173 224454 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some controversy over whether pixels are infact rectangular < 1311415210 813874 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats to be expected i guess < 1311415244 115183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's that thing about them ... not being < 1311415250 521862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for algorgorgotihms < 1311415270 564843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY IDENTICAL PANELS THAT ARE DIFFERENTIATED SOLELY BY THE DIALOGUE < 1311415270 762659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM A TRUE COMIC ARTIST NOW < 1311415270 960901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :contravarsial dinosaur comics dis < 1311415357 637936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ENCOUNTERED THIS FIERCELY ORANGE CREATURE IN MY BACK YARD < 1311415357 916648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WHEN FETCHING MY DIGITAL CAMERA I OF COURSE FELT THE NEED TO RUN < 1311415358 114515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN FEAR THAT THIS THING WOULD ESCAPE IN 8 WHOLE SECONDS < 1311415374 682364 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody useless and trivial result: In an m x n section of space, there are no oscillators with period larger than 2^(m*n) < 1311415408 599960 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? < 1311415420 769722 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311415452 26776 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is referring to two-state CA with an I-forget-the-name neighborhood
< 1311415457 483850 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if state is binary < 1311415500 263989 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :conway's game of life neighborhood? < 1311415504 610976 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1311415522 332778 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311415533 695280 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311415535 371100 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the neighborhood is irrelevant, come to think of it. well, hmm. What exotic neighborhood could break it? < 1311415538 41256 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you proved it or merely sampled it? < 1311415538 239093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :092 - EXERTION OF POLAR OPPOSITION - 020922 < 1311415538 487666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM ENJOYING THE FACT THAT I AM RAPIDLY BECOMING THE MASTER OF NOT MAKING SENSE < 1311415538 685744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN SUBSCRIBING TO AN APPRENTICESHIP FOR NOT MAKING SENSE < 1311415538 685929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE CONTACT ME VIA EMAIL OR AIM < 1311415542 807941 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah if you have a configuration in {0, 1}^{Z^2} that has period vectors (0, m) and (n, 0), then necessarily the orbit of that configuration in your CA is eventually periodic with period less than or equal to 2^{mn}. < 1311415545 303785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it links to both :D < 1311415561 334292 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial to prove but it's actually used all the time < 1311415568 43211 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, I'm too lazy to sample < 1311415588 678897 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are we talking about? < 1311415603 220424 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Although the neighborhood is irrelevant, come to think of it. well, hmm. What exotic neighborhood could break it?" <<< even if the neighborhood and rule are different at every cell, the result follows, just as trivially < 1311415642 623656 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :your state set has size 2^{mn} so a deterministic system will be come periodic with period less than or equal to that < 1311415662 957197 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: cellular automata < 1311415667 52788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just "finite state machines cycle" < 1311415670 170722 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1311415673 269710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG WOWZ < 1311415723 168622 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, actually, my statement is _slightly_ different from that. I mean a finite sized pattern on an infinite mostly empty grid. Same idea though, but applies only to patterns that don't grow past m*n < 1311415727 2691 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing though < 1311415739 506394 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, did I state "doesn't grow past m*n"? < 1311415742 540971 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might not have < 1311415747 141424 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: but wrapping the rule around? < 1311415753 723152 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1311415757 598509 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1311415769 548177 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oscillator < 1311415821 460796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MORAL OF THIS STORY IS THAT < 1311415821 659034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVOLUTION REQUIRES A GIANT DRIP OF SWEAT < 1311415844 180501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :110 - AN END - 030124 < 1311415844 415167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIVE ME ONE GOOD REASON WHY I SHOULD CONTINUE WITH MY LIFE < 1311415844 415360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND BY LIFE I MEAN COMIC STRIP < 1311415869 49608 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this comic is way too smart for me < 1311415891 817983 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot follow the conversations fast enough for this to even count as a comic < 1311415899 12805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's study < 1311415903 269966 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311415972 554376 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311415981 273520 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311415993 132869 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160096.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, i'll give you no good reasons! < 1311416037 658725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GO TO COLLEGE < 1311416037 936787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT YOU LEARN IN COLLEGE IS < 1311416038 134660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT YOU TRULY VALUE IN LIFE < 1311416046 384670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's like poetry for the soul < 1311416072 918018 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to treat areas of the grid as usefully finite for X time but it is probably imposible, at least usefully < 1311416107 137093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 123 is like oerjan but better < 1311416112 683338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip oerjan++ < 1311416157 125113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF IF I WAS A HAMSTER RUNNING INSIDE MY HAMSTER WHEEL OF HAMSTER FORTUNE AND HAMSTER VIRTUE" < 1311416199 551628 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE TOP OF THE LINE IN FLAT PANEL MONITORS USES PLASMA PIXELS < 1311416211 553530 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derp misread that as it's used for the top row < 1311416223 594432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY $19.95 < 1311416223 846720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WAIT < 1311416224 45621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALL NOW AND GET AN ADDITIONAL < 1311416224 45711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MINUTE OF YOUR LIFE STOLEN < 1311416244 998832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE QUESTION IS < 1311416245 197747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUPERFLUOUS WEALTH SOMEHOW GIVES ONE < 1311416245 396472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE ABILITY TO GROW AN ERRATIC MOUSTACHE < 1311416245 396670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a question apparently < 1311416255 957395 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311416318 793934 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get out of here as soon as you can < 1311416372 407859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311416380 607588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly is an idler < 1311416391 303617 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1311416399 845984 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, is it illegal to idle? < 1311416408 364166 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I want to treat areas of the grid as usefully finite for X time but it is probably imposible, at least usefully" <<< if this was still about CA, idgi, please explain < 1311416447 674913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: nope, Taneb seemed to think you were new < 1311416456 901515 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :areas of the grid would seem to mean (m x n section of space) < 1311416469 361831 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I was trying to stop more people be drawn into this single conversation < 1311416475 170888 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than the channel as a whole < 1311416479 412418 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: yeah i got that < 1311416503 136365 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :usefully finite sounds like the pipe dream part < 1311416556 518952 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once again let me mention that injective on finite configurations <==> surjective < 1311416607 354477 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid in any dimension and on many many many other groups < 1311416811 308412 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember jectives < 1311416845 701595 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :surjective = onto, injective = one-to-one; onto = all have preimage, one-to-one = different go to different in the mapping < 1311416877 524884 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sur is just french for onto < 1311416879 552036 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another one < 1311416890 34275 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well bijective but that's easy to remember < 1311417117 424092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311417161 145439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311417345 989702 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but elliott doesn't know that < 1311417381 836851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc i don't < 1311417488 376536 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :really you only know what you've been told, or otherwise gathered from your perceptions, and also the stuff you've independently thought up in your head < 1311417520 598725 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps some other stuff that was there in the first place < 1311417537 533225 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus i dunno some bonus maybe < 1311417540 589854 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pizza < 1311417544 441792 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1311417900 980785 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that just what they want you to thin < 1311417905 17097 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^think < 1311418353 858695 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derp. < 1311418384 316125 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just proved to myself that there are countably infinite finite-sized oscillators, then realized that there are countably infinite finite-sized patterns < 1311418393 575104 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I think everyone's sick of my failures < 1311418567 98519 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1311418569 891662 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :those aren't failures < 1311418589 51115 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just unremarkable successes < 1311418647 827951 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-53.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311418687 121555 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the actual algorithm for enumerating through all finite-sized oscillators is also unremarkable? < 1311418711 134952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As remarkable as the one for bit strings with a condition < 1311418849 78460 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _just_ realized how to determine if a finite-sized pattern is a GoE or not... and I was talking about related stuff just hours ago. < 1311418852 853298 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps self
< 1311418871 287130 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And yes, that's what I was looking for for quite a long period of time here) < 1311419188 395356 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of math is unremarkable < 1311419202 55485 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of math is unremarkable < 1311419204 874849 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all < 1311419244 323650 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: This sort of stuff is good. Keep at it, and tell me if you can prove or disprove the existence of oscillators with no entry points in finite grids of games of life < 1311419286 208756 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, are you saying you know the answer? < 1311419328 928859 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any such oscillators with no entry points would have to be a certain size, and have no internal gaps of a certain size. < 1311419360 503784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : all of math is unremarkable < 1311419363 394715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i take it you can't do any math? < 1311419385 965552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(joking, but with a point.) < 1311419409 251598 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the answers are only remarkable until some other rule comes along and generalizes them < 1311419513 196801 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's restrict myself to an n*n grid. < 1311419515 861033 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No, I don't < 1311419528 733039 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, surely there are reasons for math beyond our understanding < 1311419552 416171 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic foundations of abstract algebra are utterly boring < 1311419558 457517 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the wondrous things you can do with it are not < 1311419634 436655 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n*n grid, (n-5) by (n-5) patterns all have GoEs. But some of those patterns may oscillate into each other, so that there is 1 GoE for each... wait, no! < 1311419663 851282 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311419688 362484 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in the case of oscillators, there are multiple GoEs for each phrase of the oscillator (as long as each phrase is at the particular size or smaller) < 1311419697 485095 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svXeDHE6tBU < 1311419709 917707 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you could put that spare dot in several locations < 1311419719 532142 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can even do it for n by n-5 < 1311419755 64051 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of math is unremarked, but quite markable. < 1311419775 590073 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is what I have so far: Any pattern with a 5x5 space admits an eden to its next generation < 1311419778 429655 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This puts a rather high lower bound on number of GoEs: 2^[n(n-5)] < 1311419778 986473 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got a sword < 1311419810 293576 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can stick a dot in the center of that space without affecting the result (which is, in CA parlance, to say that they are twins) < 1311419868 794342 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that greatly increases the lower bound < 1311419870 602798 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an entry point? < 1311419899 592676 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say that | | are symbols for repeat < 1311419902 548313 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A |B C| < 1311419906 827372 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been holding a sword < 1311419907 869855 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A would be an entry point < 1311419913 617305 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1311419914 590812 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" the basic foundations of abstract algebra are utterly boring" <<< no they are not! < 1311419920 499475 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are utterly awesome < 1311419938 462066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Axioms are boring < 1311419942 658140 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that you do with axioms are cool < 1311419957 373898 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i thought you meant things like the homomorphism theorem and stuff < 1311419972 5447 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Thus to prove the existence of an oscillator with no eden predecessors, you must have an oscillator that never contains a five-by-five hole < 1311419984 72594 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is necessary although not sufficient < 1311419989 205431 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "nothing new under the sun" but with numbers. < 1311419992 966831 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1311420024 119360 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ooh, I think, on a torus, "no 5x5 or larger hole" also forces it to be the necessary size < 1311420044 373240 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yeah < 1311420044 790800 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously there cannot be an oscillator that's a GoE < 1311420050 505273 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what do you mean by oscillator? < 1311420068 233049 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so i take entry point = preimage < 1311420091 132227 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: We're trying to reason about the existence of an oscillator with no eden that will result in the oscillator through repeated evolution < 1311420112 627665 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a finite grid such as a torus < 1311420118 402039 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you do know you will never find a GoE for GoL? < 1311420124 476924 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're working on toroids right now < 1311420127 429496 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: uh what < 1311420133 654352 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are big. < 1311420174 637838 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dunno maybe you are really smart or have a smart program or can read wp < 1311420177 116781 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an 11x11 known orphan < 1311420189 457474 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, if you start from that, then you'll find an orphan easily < 1311420192 89199 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :by doing nothing < 1311420204 29669 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you would never find that yourself < 1311420204 479894 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, even in infinite grids, they exist. And ais523 and I proved that for any pattern on a finite grid that has a 5x5 or larger hole (coppro, I'm using this formulation now), there's a GoE that results in it < 1311420226 710945 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, but someone else found it for me < 1311420228 981230 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whee < 1311420262 861311 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :results in it? you mean evolves into it? no that's obviously false < 1311420284 388514 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/finite/toroidal/ < 1311420302 999350 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless 0 iterations of the rule are allowed as well < 1311420319 42765 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this is accepting 0 iterations < 1311420325 294823 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that one holds in any finite space < 1311420342 148316 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311420346 13524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for gol again < 1311420351 737264 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the one about oscillators might be different between finite limited space, and finite toroidal space < 1311420355 185191 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes this is all gol < 1311420361 428694 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAs exist without edens < 1311420367 43183 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1311420386 902942 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, back to the subject at hand < 1311420408 231589 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol, even in infinite grids, they exist. And ais523 and I proved that for any pattern on a finite grid that has a 5x5 or larger hole (coppro, I'm using this formulation now), there's a GoE that results in it" <<< how did you prove this? < 1311420421 220448 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, read logs < 1311420421 418420 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is for periodic configs, that is, toroidal? < 1311420440 227506 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i have a counterexample < 1311420442 30681 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes. Or, might work for other finite as well. Certainly other finite that wraps < 1311420446 502264 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1311420459 341854 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, maybe not, hmmhmm < 1311420462 581172 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where in the logs, today? < 1311420469 677313 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either today or yesterday < 1311420475 336416 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was explaining to coppro < 1311420481 348745 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the proof is fairly straightforwad < 1311420484 543259 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timezones scare me < 1311420487 592401 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forward < 1311420495 168810 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Just add a dot in the 5x5 hole < 1311420526 46077 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what then < 1311420566 869038 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work backwards. You're not in an oscillator, so all possible patterns going backwards must eventually be a GoE. < 1311420594 618279 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: More lucidly this time < 1311420596 915947 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was for periodic ok < 1311420641 611538 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why aren't you in an oscillator? < 1311420666 378519 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you aren't, you already must have a finite number of predecessors since there are only finite states to work from and repeated application will never get you back to an earlier one < 1311420725 112087 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously, if you restrict to configs with periods m and n; why aren't you in an oscillator? < 1311420759 328492 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me restate the proof better < 1311420771 786397 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a really simple answer for that that is in my head that just won't come out < 1311420774 78677 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you restate the trivial part, i will slap you < 1311420778 207037 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless my thinking is muddled < 1311420876 804912 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you keep going backwards, and you're in an oscillator somehow, then you get...now I'm wondering if this proof only works for starting from oscillators... but if it's not an oscillator then it's a preimage to one < 1311420877 3120 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :really i'd like to hear your definition of hole < 1311420894 129733 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a 5x5 empty space you cannot move out of, using only white cells? < 1311420918 884254 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5x5 dead cells surrounded by anything < 1311420928 133593 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean obviously otherwise you can just take a 5x5 empty space and surround it with small oscillators to find something with infinitely many preimages < 1311420930 413419 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311420936 758347 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given some state, an infinite number of applications must eventually oscillate due to finite state space. If the repeated applications do not arrive at the original, you are not in an oscillator and must have finitely many predecessors. If you are in an oscillator, make a cell live in the center of a 5x5 square of dead cells. This pattern is a twin to yours, so they have the same successor. But the oscillator cannot reach this twin through re < 1311420940 435916 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it's obviously false < 1311420973 66627 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the state wiht the added live cell is a predecessor as its successor is a part of the same oscillator < 1311420983 358176 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that's a good point < 1311421093 655499 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :either the original thing with a 3x3 hole or the one with an added dot must not be an oscillator, since they have the same image, and therefore one of them has an n'th preimage that's a goe < 1311421102 113972 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311421113 214999 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the size 5x5 give you that in fact it's the original one? < 1311421134 977398 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :5x5 is required to ensure that the added cell doesn't interact with anything < 1311421154 48690 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed it is < 1311421167 23571 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot what the rule was < 1311421175 933735 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did I at first :) < 1311421207 913756 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I want to tackle the harder problem :D < 1311421239 916439 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we count how many patterns there are with 5x5 or larger holes? < 1311421254 976520 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's the lower bound on GoEs < 1311421258 561134 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's usually the one with the dot that has a goe nth preimage, since you can, as i said, just have small oscillators and a 5x5 hole in between them < 1311421351 469050 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if that 11x11 thingie can be made to collapse into the all-0 configuration, then all finite configs have a goe preimage (although it might not fit in your favorite torus) < 1311421359 244167 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what's the harder problem? < 1311421388 304081 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Do all finite configs have a geo preimage? < 1311421410 688330 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a finite goe preimage, on an infinite grid? or torus again < 1311421415 648218 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :torus < 1311421430 192731 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapping around? < 1311421432 994703 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, which sizes of torii admit states with no goe preimage < 1311421437 717772 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what torii do < 1311421449 779518 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually yeah < 1311421466 701854 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tori < 1311421512 438984 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :goe is too complicated for this to be at all interesting really < 1311421534 515924 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :too complicated to be interesting? what? < 1311421548 235337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mathematically interesting < 1311421551 555086 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno where you get your kicks < 1311421651 738418 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm pretty sure that anything smaller than 3x3 admits nothing other than the trivial oscillator < 1311421656 970318 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" oklopol: Do all finite configs have a geo preimage?" <<< well for this particular question, actually the answer is trivially "yes", but questions that actually depend on gol, kind of hard < 1311421672 213982 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311421679 540882 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what the fuck am i saying :D < 1311421680 612591 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, wait, it is? < 1311421688 28931 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, describe please < 1311421703 452458 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no trivially true for all non-surjectives < 1311421705 584300 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1311421756 806182 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D < 1311421787 385992 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far have you checked? < 1311421808 220051 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :From experimetnation, it appears that 3x3 admits only period-1 oscillators and patterns that produce the trivial oscillator in one or two generations, and if by two, the intermediate state is always the all-on state < 1311421818 965780 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very far, I'm playing around manually < 1311421829 741631 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may write a script tomorrow to do serious checking < 1311421859 288680 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're actually testing stuff? That's boring :/ < 1311421873 951644 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's no way to do this any other way < 1311421884 85385 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for small patterns < 1311421912 843321 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311421919 833637 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :experiment for the small case < 1311421920 274519 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably prove it for all large enough patterns by looking at the images of the goe on the wiki < 1311421921 439481 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cases < 1311421923 224160 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we can prove that the lower bound on GoEs = the number of patterns without 5x5 holes < 1311421931 450145 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pedia < 1311421934 674804 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That's hardly sufficient < 1311421949 856366 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many patterns are there without 5x5 holes? < 1311421955 234021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: whoosh < 1311421977 64823 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that the answer is constant beyond a certain size < 1311421986 41868 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it might be. if it's not, what else can you do really. < 1311421995 668402 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: See if there's a pattern < 1311422012 65331 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's only prime by prime tori? < 1311422012 346912 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :to what? < 1311422016 737450 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an upper bound on number of GoEs? < 1311422024 912182 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yes. The number of states < 1311422027 692969 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311422038 50771 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take a random problem, you will find a random answer. it's not the prime by prime tori. < 1311422065 342372 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, number of patterns without 5x5 holes is the upper bound < 1311422088 470074 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1311422095 747469 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is equivalent to: Is the number of GoEs = to the upper bound? If not, then there's a pattern without a 5x5 hole that is not a GoE < 1311422102 280051 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: prove it :P < 1311422109 393512 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Dude < 1311422115 929444 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: that makes no sense < 1311422136 111370 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :an upper bound is an estimation; you need some criterion for the upper bound < 1311422142 990037 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :making conjectures is a great way to progress < 1311422152 87856 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that particular one is obviously false < 1311422153 315871 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, replace "upper bound" with "number of patterns without 5x5 holes" < 1311422154 258861 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1311422160 699955 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1311422165 693582 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case I go with oklopol < 1311422175 713935 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fun fact: any 3-cell pattern on a 3x3 torus immediately fills the entire torus and dies < 1311422198 657741 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :every cell sees every cell so obviously < 1311422226 280614 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :only depends on the amount of live cells < 1311422237 703955 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, someone tell me a way to count patterns without 5x5 holes < 1311422241 264691 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's instantly everyone alive, or instantly everyone dead < 1311422241 463142 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has to be an easy way < 1311422257 856153 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: right, thanks for beating sense into me :D < 1311422289 133121 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I could do it in a few minutes, but it doesn't seem worth it < 1311422317 208689 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a counting problem < 1311422350 50783 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and if the lower bound on GoEs ever equals it for some sized tori, we'll have some answers < 1311422363 824524 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems quite unlikely < 1311422381 653351 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on small tori < 1311422412 880807 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you're above 16x11 then you definitely won't hit that bound < 1311422417 899386 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is a known 11x11 orhpan < 1311422479 719736 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh 3x3 torus. nifty < 1311422481 727257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i still don't get how you know 5x5 hole => goe nth preimage, all we've established is either that pattern or the one with a dot in the middle has one, how did you do the final step? < 1311422498 134212 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean there are patterns with a 5x5 hole that are in an oscillator < 1311422505 756181 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said < 1311422536 258030 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: will every 3x3 torus eventually die? < 1311422545 68727 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: in at most 2 steps < 1311422547 312171 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: or be stable < 1311422548 622111 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :homework: why? < 1311422564 412707 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, if it's in an oscillator, then that cell will die, and the oscillator will eventually reach the same position except without the dot < 1311422567 300766 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1311422572 513718 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I misunderstanding your question? < 1311422578 201735 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember the rule
< 1311422604 952482 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Suppose that one of the two has no goe nth premiage. Then it must be in an oscillator as the state space is finite. But that means its successor is a predecessor, and its successor has the other twin as an nth preimage and hence has a geo nth preimage; contradiction < 1311422606 481876 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right the rule is not symmetric w.r.t. live and dead cells, in that case 3x3 is not quite as trivial as i said < 1311422618 279193 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :still pretty trivial though < 1311422627 31250 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule is 2 or 3 to stay alive, 3 to birth < 1311422662 715026 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a contradiction that the config with a 5x5 hole is in an oscillator < 1311422680 193636 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that can happent < 1311422682 61092 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*happen < 1311422684 192830 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sure < 1311422687 177875 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, did I misunderstand your question? < 1311422696 520721 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose it's a p2 oscillator < 1311422701 957658 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has to have a goe nth preimage because its successor does, and its successor is itself an nth preimage < 1311422706 546606 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's in n oscillator < 1311422708 910681 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in an < 1311422709 327488 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern in phase 1 + dot has goe primage. < 1311422711 461912 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :preimage. < 1311422723 385595 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, phase 2 + no dot has goe preimage < 1311422731 468597 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then phase 1 + no dot has goe preimage < 1311422829 659483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" But it has to have a goe nth preimage because its successor does" <<< are you claiming this is a general truth for CA? < 1311422854 180048 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1311422857 47327 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No < 1311422873 133899 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what CA is it not true for? Nondeterministic? < 1311422883 194450 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there nondeterministic CAs? < 1311422910 838676 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't see why that's true < 1311422944 349063 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, I misread the quote as "predecessor" < 1311422949 543276 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Okay, let me try this again from the top. Given a state S with a 5x5 hole, put a dot in that hole and call it H. < 1311422959 940383 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you just explain the part i don't get < 1311422965 761577 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I'm trying to < 1311422971 466852 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_> Pattern in phase 1 + dot has goe primage. < 1311422971 745631 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : preimage. < 1311422971 943952 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then, phase 2 + no dot has goe preimage < 1311422971 944026 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then phase 1 + no dot has goe preimage < 1311422972 142253 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not quite sure what part that is < 1311422985 589855 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm not getting what part you're not getting? < 1311422988 489044 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both S and H cannot be in the same oscillator as the generation function is bijective within an oscillator and G(S) = G(H) < 1311423006 748311 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they cannot be in different oscillators for the same reason < 1311423013 93190 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So one is not in an oscillator < 1311423024 255287 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol < 1311423028 467702 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay igi :D < 1311423038 563164 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey that's a neat trick < 1311423098 988032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code is a shit :( < 1311423134 715296 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do Game of Life stuff with us < 1311423134 913189 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I want to write a script which will enumerate every state of a finite torus GoL modulo symmetry and create a graph of the results < 1311423143 232303 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think sleep must come first < 1311423155 652275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no < 1311423206 915477 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to generalize < 1311423214 452808 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have two preimages, then you have a goe nth preimage < 1311423218 364416 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311423233 435349 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finite state space, anyway < 1311423236 902529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311423268 177934 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do I suddenly feel like this is going to become category theory < 1311423365 900336 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good analogy can apply to anything < 1311423400 947546 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if one of your images has a goe nth preimage, then you have one as well < 1311423409 468614 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finite space < 1311423449 415672 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to need to go out soon < 1311423460 102144 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicken sandwich for breakfast :D < 1311423472 557603 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311423487 67766 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: right < 1311423500 606479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: omg how amazing D::DDDD < 1311423512 171600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting lemma for functions acting on a finite space, certainly, nothing to do with ca tho < 1311423530 670917 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all a function of IRC < 1311423532 201693 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :3x3 admits oscillators with no goe nth preimage, as does 1xn with n>=3 < 1311423575 576059 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait < 1311423579 54242 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no goe nth preimage, or no goe nth preimage provable with a 5x5 hole? < 1311423579 610317 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1311423583 875999 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be even n < 1311423606 244034 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you can prove there's only one preimage, that would do it < 1311423618 721638 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, stop obsessing about 5x5 holes pervert < 1311423639 348149 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... actually, odd may admit a seriously wacky oscillator < 1311423671 56774 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I am looking at a video with the heading "morphism category theory" and I'm getting basic knot theory explained < 1311423713 912959 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so 1xn with odd n admits oscillators < 1311423715 566384 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat ones too < 1311423732 59040 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be good for the patterns of random lights that repeat in weird cycles in scifi schows < 1311423753 516417 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there we go < 1311423762 408784 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they each represent a symmetric 2-morphism < 1311423765 520342 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO WONDER < 1311423778 551893 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the only way not to admit an oscillator is to have everything go to zero < 1311423789 353758 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sorry < 1311423803 92366 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-goe predecessor oscillator < 1311423825 806889 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :need a good adjective < 1311423827 84371 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :stranded? < 1311423832 49620 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we have a name for this concept in math < 1311423838 127222 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so come up with your own < 1311423847 208609 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k I'm calling them stranded oscillators < 1311423852 586928 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I consider everything at 0 to be a period 1 oscillator < 1311423873 622375 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a name for ones which have arbitrarily long preimage chains, such points are said to belong to the limit set of the CA < 1311423873 820429 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the 1x11 torus is weird < 1311423873 820603 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that an abuse of terminology? < 1311423901 613561 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ah ok, that works then < 1311423912 207179 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: that's the terminology i'd use, i just assumed coppro meant there has to be a 1 since he said it admits one < 1311423914 822960 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait, no it doesn't < 1311423931 794033 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that terminology < 1311423940 59219 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if every point goes to the all-0 config for some state 0, the CA is said to be nilpotent < 1311423949 748038 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then there exists a k such that all points to go all-0 in k steps) < 1311423949 946798 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetric 2-morphism? < 1311424011 891754 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1x5 is nilpotent < 1311424015 465970 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: talking about the video < 1311424059 922516 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1x7 has a weird spaceship oscillator < 1311424064 195763 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1311424110 18596 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, how about a xenophobic oscillator < 1311424118 734606 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wha < 1311424119 846504 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311424122 222744 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that name < 1311424131 803557 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it not like other kinds of oscillators < 1311424136 242692 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311424144 791022 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't like any state except its own members < 1311424150 480869 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclusive might work too < 1311424167 540478 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311424169 55791 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by that? < 1311424186 478118 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PART :#esoteric < 1311424197 695432 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311424215 727175 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Just trying to name these oscillators with no predecessors < 1311424223 212846 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1311424245 563810 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose a closed oscillator would probably be best < 1311424268 27968 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you have a set that cannot be entered, kind of like a fortress. so call each config in there a *drumroll* brick < 1311424280 267341 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you prove they exist for the 1xn and ... the other thing you proved? < 1311424319 586918 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, experimentally, but how do you demonstrate they have no other preimages? < 1311424330 614271 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed is good, in fact it's a closed set in the topology given by one-way orbits < 1311424343 348241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clopen in fact) < 1311424359 750752 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1xn for even n I'm not 100% sure about but could probably sketch up a proof < 1311424375 525814 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :topology given by one-way orbits being that a set is open if it's closed under the map < 1311424382 211343 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :any zebra stripe pattern is stable and I'm pretty sure also has no other predecessors < 1311424412 569989 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can go through all the configs, it's easy enough to enumerate stranded ones < 1311424417 333601 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311424428 678512 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I prefer stranded or closed < 1311424430 970350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rendaer a q < 1311424447 950647 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed is more conventional but stranded sounds more like the concept < 1311424455 660280 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: 3x3 is straightforward < 1311424487 527485 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: in 3x3 all configurations with exactly 3 cells alive are stable and all others die out in at most 2 generations < 1311424528 90955 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah, at some point I will write a script to enumerate these < 1311424534 78594 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, ok. < 1311424559 434472 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :enumerate ones that belong to a closed oscillator? < 1311424609 274360 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, at least for small tori < 1311424635 737749 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember to use the fact you only need to look at the first preimages, and then enumerate the whole orbit if you have multiple < 1311424642 512892 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise that's gonna take some time < 1311424669 24164 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose < 1311424672 702832 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have multiple preimages for a state, then it's not a closed/stranded oscillator < 1311424674 282718 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc < 1311424710 471229 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not, point is you never need to look further than that because a point is in a closed oscillator iff it has a preimage not in a closed oscillator < 1311424728 508548 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: sketch of prrof for 1xn in my head < 1311424736 952134 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for even n, anyway) < 1311424818 309004 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1x9 appears to really really like a single oscillator < 1311424839 328445 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :have yet to find a pattern other than all-off and all-on that doesn't result in i < 1311424843 422930 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in it < 1311424882 326280 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another problem: Is there a general solution to the number of distinct oscillators on an mxn torus? < 1311424917 21236 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bed < 1311424920 895958 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311424940 114743 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nope there isn't one or nope there can't be one? < 1311424957 974609 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope there can't be one, assuming the way you can implement a tm in gol is in any way sensible < 1311424970 809415 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311424975 952371 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160096.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311424979 423928 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1311424990 903680 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1311425001 563425 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :First: You can't impement a TM on a torus < 1311425002 626067 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160096.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311425008 944137 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't? < 1311425024 305942 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it grows forever even if its tape doesn't? < 1311425029 768445 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, TM implies infinite storage < 1311425034 970388 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A torus is not infinite < 1311425059 999808 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does the gol implementation need expanding space for constant storage < 1311425061 279027 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, that's what I usually mean when I say torus, anyway < 1311425100 583493 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't, there can't be a general solution to the number of distinct oscillators < 1311425104 377157 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in the form of a tm < 1311425104 794557 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what? < 1311425121 547577 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1311425125 947647 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need expanding space for expanding storage, I'd assume < 1311425137 884715 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, that's not what i asked < 1311425141 415857 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't forbid expanding storage without forbidding TM < 1311425174 335985 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311425176 546150 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely, a counterexample, then: Why can't you simply enumerate every mxn pattern, and count the oscillators? < 1311425202 638390 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sure you can do that :D < 1311425205 537847 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*surely < 1311425209 610367 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i meant originally < 1311425217 956876 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that the fact you can implement a tm < 1311425224 738755 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :means there can't be any sort of nice formula < 1311425231 60828 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in any rigorous sense < 1311425236 485934 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a "nice formula"? < 1311425241 713997 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nice formula" has no meaning < 1311425251 113362 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i said "not in any rigorous sense" < 1311425262 985900 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i then forgot that this was all i meant and claimed you can't even calculate them < 1311425298 71731 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not true since given m and n, you can certainly just count the oscillators < 1311425328 855642 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for instance this is certainly p-complete < 1311425334 64991 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can implement tm's < 1311425338 935093 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, hm. I'm still not quite sure I get what finite state automa have to do with this < 1311425343 723723 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm refusing to call it TM < 1311425512 126465 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the point is you can draw an initial part of the infinite tape with a tm using logspace, this is all you usually need for p-hardness results < 1311425688 115450 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what i mean is that whether a single config is in an oscillator should be p-hard, since you can reverse your computation and start over with yes-instances, and go to all-0 or something for no-instances < 1311425734 172951 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm a bit confused < 1311425766 710349 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to, hopefully, unconfuse you, you are certainly right in that you can just count oscillators < 1311425767 127541 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, is doing several GoL generations and comparing generally considered p-hard? I'm a bit lost with complexity classes. < 1311425783 412591 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait < 1311425792 431336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :p-hard < 1311425809 411607 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm saying is there can't, intuitively, be a nice formula for this, because there never is for this kind of things. < 1311425815 904863 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (sic) < 1311425886 369882 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically just means you can draw a finite part of a turing machine config in the state < 1311425892 570115 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a circuit < 1311425894 447159 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is running GoL for 2^mn generations not intuitively a nice formula? < 1311425913 966365 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nice algo, i wouldn't call it a formula < 1311425919 505309 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1311425961 404794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is the algo "for i in ... setp gol" < 1311425966 659175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :step < 1311425984 222387 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't call it a formula < 1311425993 421604 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would call m^n + n^m a formula < 1311426023 149017 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1311426028 841286 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that's actually some kind of solution to the problem < 1311426042 499946 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you surely cannot have, because you can implement a tm. < 1311426051 236933 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I know what nice means, kind of. We would like a nice means of determining the existence of stranded oscillators, without brute-forcing < 1311426080 121696 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, but there must be a formal definition of what it is that you cannot have? < 1311426098 297802 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just studied the 2x2 toroidal by hand.. because formulas for these things are simply over my head. < 1311426099 172100 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i'm not aware of one, i suppose that would be complexity classes < 1311426103 603711 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was fun to see < 1311426110 822471 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, get Golly < 1311426119 62761 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all i'm saying is tm ==> all hope is gone, mathematically < 1311426125 977384 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't even have Golly open right now < 1311426131 996280 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-53.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311426152 488115 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, tbh, that sounds more like a rule of thumb. And again, you can't have TM on a finite torus < 1311426170 728876 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a rule of thumb that's always true < 1311426177 34736 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like the church-turing thesis < 1311426184 630575 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 out of 16 died... and the other 4 turned into fascinating "up" "down" "left" "right" shapes < 1311426203 796080 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a tm on a finite torus, it will just explode if it tries to use too much space < 1311426231 288244 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thumb still applies < 1311426232 854666 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :by turned into i should say "remained as" < 1311426363 360836 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's no "nice" way to see the result of a TM without running it... but all that really equates into is there's no way to see the result of a TM without the thing computing the result, whether by simulating the TM or not, definitely not halting < 1311426394 255186 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really sure how to apply that here. < 1311426394 943403 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311426466 771157 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you apply it by noting you cannot know whether a tm drawn on a config is in an oscillator without running it, which means the only possible formula is brute-force. < 1311426491 387668 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not a formal proof, but only an ass would not accept it < 1311426556 129920 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just going to mentally s/tm/fsm/ what you said and say ok < 1311426560 680711 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, you cannot take a random problem and expect it to be mathematically interesting, the solution will be just as random < 1311426594 541703 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you want to be a fucking outstanding retard, go ahead < 1311426639 509829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares more insults
< 1311426660 561578 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you substitute fsm where i say tm, that really means nothing < 1311426670 176893 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can solve the halting problem for your "TM" on the torus < 1311426673 154331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is it's a certain kind of fsm, one that has a tape. < 1311426681 337077 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always try to direct everything i think about onto gaming. I figure that to give a game depth at its core then some mathematics is required. < 1311426710 583450 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the trick becomes how to turn a mathematical problem into a fun game. < 1311426722 829162 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't been done yet < 1311426733 106953 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprise us all and be the first < 1311426748 626705 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hmm? Are you talking to me or itidus20? < 1311426781 701562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can solve the halting problem for your "TM" on the torus < 1311426783 763399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tm =/= jutm < 1311426786 161623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :utm < 1311426796 90595 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1311426801 7279 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311426810 665666 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is the joke that you're missing the point as badly as Sgeo_? < 1311426836 479235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the joke is all the words < 1311426843 709658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only read that line anyway < 1311426850 896758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just kind of assumed anything Sgeo_ said would be something like that < 1311426855 976830 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, here's the solution to the halting problem: Run it. If it crashes, or otherwise doesn't return to the initial state after 2^mn, it halts, otherwise, it doesn't. < 1311426874 231387 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he was mostly missing the point and expressing it in random ways < 1311426954 9563 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well work time < 1311426990 561591 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since last night i realized all lattices with continuous shift-commuting operations over S^Z can be recoded into pointwise lattices < 1311427032 552445 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you have a conjugate subshift and the lattice operations only look at the ith symbols of their arguments to determine the ith symbol of the image < 1311427085 485572 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oklopol seems to think that turing-machines can exist in finite space. And just to be clear on the idea of finite tape possibly being TM vs UTM, he mindboggled when I said that I could solve the halting problem for his TM (although maybe he thought I meant with stuff _on_ the machine, which is impossible) < 1311427127 384866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wacky oklopol with his strange uncommon mathematical beliefs < 1311427154 851531 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I'm missing something, please tell me < 1311427167 125595 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematics is my religion < 1311427182 413886 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i ever actually proved anything < 1311427200 835252 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for actual games one thing that tends to be necessary is interfacing the math models with non-math things. < 1311427256 70779 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the interfaced things is actually non mathematic is questionable though < 1311427281 136844 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: sorry i was talking to itidus20, i have you on ignore < 1311427291 259335 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not mindboggle at you claiming that trivial thing < 1311427318 550093 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry to everyone that i am always offtopic < 1311427375 411865 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so, its a bit like what the chinese did with yin and yang, and trigrams. applying meanings. < 1311427380 744775 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-246.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311427439 400956 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so 00=north, 01=east, 10 = west, 11=south < 1311427464 83110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, you discovered binary < 1311427503 161326 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the pure mathematicians never actually apply it to anything.. the "interfacing" < 1311427510 593642 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its horses for courses < 1311427531 831662 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make it all possible etc < 1311427569 673115 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is our disagreement here just a matter of terminology? < 1311427577 863805 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure that if i did that better i could say north + east = northeast < 1311427680 642302 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, easy way for the future is to assign 1 bit to 1 ... bit < 1311427694 374424 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So north/south gets 1s place, east/west gets 2s place, or something like that < 1311427706 277791 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that doesn't... quite... hm < 1311427713 127736 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of assumes defaults < 1311427782 321614 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. it was right how i had it.. no doubt < 1311427840 490551 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh fuck it. time for me to take a break. < 1311427840 688399 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1311427844 243690 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it trivially doesn't work < 1311427849 199609 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My scheme, I mean < 1311427873 333434 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 possible states, so you need 3 bits < 1311427888 27819 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :00 + 01 = 01 .. that creates a problem < 1311427898 126993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do a bitmask duh < 1311427899 561129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :powers of two < 1311427973 160167 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: yes, fizzie thinks this is the nineties, and does things like use bitshifts instead of division <-- I think the most bitshifts are where there are negative numbers, where bitshift != round-towards-zero division. (Though it admittely uglily assumes sign-extending arithmetic shift for signed quantities.) < 1311427974 722022 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of a non-ugly way to do it in 3 bits now. < 1311428029 427 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A NORTH flag, a WEST flag, and one more flag < 1311428032 982386 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying meanings to numbers is approximately as fun as processing the numbers < 1311428079 859127 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh. If I only had two flags, so NORTH or not NORTH (south), and WEST or not WEST (east), then you only get diagonal directions < 1311428141 136115 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it doesn't work out neatly if using addition < 1311428147 428101 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition is kind of a luxury < 1311428184 352004 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivial ordering, probably ugly though, let's see what happens: 000 = N, 001 = NE, 010 = E, 011 = SE, 100 = S, 101 = SW, 110 = W, 111 = NW < 1311428198 466503 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm honestly thinking ternary at this point < 1311428217 511927 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can trivially do it in two trits < 1311428250 738719 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, with space left over. Oh, for neutral < 1311428265 688034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : just do a bitmask duh < 1311428265 922859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : powers of two < 1311428277 562527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, three bits < 1311428283 900777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1311428291 567353 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems space left over is the price for being able to add them < 1311428296 101804 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you'd need NORTH, NOT NORTH, and SOUTH < 1311428306 22815 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, look < 1311428315 409194 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0+ is North, 0- is South < 1311428321 967279 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :00 is Neutral < 1311428327 38696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. so its a 2s compliment thing? < 1311428341 159658 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+0 is West, -0 is East < 1311428356 879938 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, no, it's base 3 instead of base 2, but instead of 0, 1, and 2, we go -1, 0, and 1 < 1311428359 444762 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok this is the trits < 1311428381 822132 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, +0 + 0+ is North + West = NorthWest < 1311428385 949686 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric := ++ < 1311428393 881990 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the netral is a necessary placeholder for the addition < 1311428398 252633 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^neutral < 1311428420 83407 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, it's because naturally there isn't on or off, there's forward, backwards, and neither < 1311428422 633888 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311428435 547738 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ok < 1311428455 557315 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going north, than what would east/west be? Neither. < 1311428466 441748 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going west, north/south must be Neither < 1311428475 41016 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's to account for the uh.. center point < 1311428502 121823 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1311428505 773395 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :right ok i see now < 1311428514 216705 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats deep < 1311428564 112918 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And these balanced ternary are just numbers < 1311428598 686035 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- = -1*3^1 + -1*3^0 = -3 + -1 = -4 < 1311428636 637641 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-0 = -3, -+ = -2, 0- = -1, 00 = 0, 0+ = 1, +- = 2, +0 = 3, ++ = 4 < 1311428690 571466 :oklopollen!82e86f10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.232.111.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311428715 616263 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with bitmasks, usually you use bitwise or instead of addition, although addition works as long as you're careful that + and - only combine with 0s. Not sure what you use with trits < 1311428733 505834 :oklopollen!82e86f10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.232.111.16 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quickly, make a guess! < 1311428739 190461 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, sorry, that "as long as" is for trits, not bits < 1311428765 843688 :oklopollen!82e86f10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.232.111.16 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: to your last question: probably. < 1311428796 373701 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20|afk < 1311428813 985752 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so no more arguments about terminology? < 1311428832 382042 :oklopollen!82e86f10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.232.111.16 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no never ever. < 1311428856 570286 :oklopollen!82e86f10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.232.111.16 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no makeup sex since i have to work < 1311428908 229298 :oklopollen!82e86f10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.232.111.16 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i just have to copypaste some stuff and generalize it :-DSASD < 1311428914 491598 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1311430188 43539 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-186-49.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311430191 271922 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-254-44.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311430334 558832 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311432017 283002 :oklopollen!82e86f10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.232.111.16 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311432067 700048 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311432072 221047 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311432502 29387 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe it or not, etc. etc. etc. < 1311432505 690923 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1311433304 409156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's pretty etc, etc, etc. < 1311433348 799747 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather not think about the details so, etc, etc. < 1311433505 60546 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160096.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup CakeProphet < 1311433640 760886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing much... < 1311433648 461513 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :chilling after work. tired as shit. < 1311433661 347001 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you knew this or not, but shit gets pretty tired. < 1311433666 371105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot of energy in those motherfuckers. < 1311434676 898755 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm also pretty tired, worked for almost an hour < 1311434736 577641 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311437390 213575 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hai fizzie < 1311437397 306156 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm Elizacat, and I've taken interest in mcmap :3 < 1311437412 344645 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I've never gotten around to poking you because I'm shy as hell. But hello! < 1311437466 52913 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, um, hello, I guess. (I never really know the correct responses.) < 1311437466 608932 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm interested in helping! I'm told you guys have a private channel for this, if you want to give me an inv I'd be much obliged, but you don't have to if you don't want < 1311437469 208491 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha < 1311437470 653694 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok :P < 1311437482 613360 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an extrovert even online, but one of us had to initiate it < 1311437490 154819 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, you don't know who I am < 1311437491 140536 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :so :p < 1311437504 2884 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :the onus would be on me for that wouldn't it < 1311437522 564830 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am extrovert online < 1311437526 723995 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't give a shit. < 1311437538 905701 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm normally pretty nice if not rather unserious :p < 1311437546 850026 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just be aware :P < 1311437555 35910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always serious business around here. < 1311437559 665070 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a good friend of Vorpal's
< 1311437564 488378 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet is serious business CakeProphet < 1311437566 635931 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wanna go < 1311437581 544141 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude I'm so good I don't even have to I've already won. < 1311437587 244244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a "private" channel for Minecraft-related stuff so that it doesn't clobber things here, but I don't think it's really all that private, it's just a "-minecraft" suffix and I'd be surprised if it hasn't been mentioned publicly here. < 1311437590 257026 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck punctuation. < 1311437591 229916 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, come at me bro < 1311437591 702042 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311437620 771501 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I've known of it, but I don't like minecraft. < 1311437638 450935 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION encases CakeProphet in a bedrock house and pours lava
< 1311437649 190714 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this is why Id on't like it..." < 1311437655 206575 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my RL friend made a castle that rebuilds itself. < 1311437660 520982 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that < 1311437661 499160 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1311437670 612233 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal and I built a self-regenerating house <3 < 1311437673 71692 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1311437676 852978 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did the logic < 1311437678 396887 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had the idea < 1311437719 643692 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me Vorpal isn't your boyfriend < 1311437727 482125 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might have to kill myself < 1311437741 80546 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they build self-regenerating houses in minecraft together it would be so adorable < 1311437793 772973 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once asked a girl to build stuff with me in mc but she said we were moving too fast < 1311437890 816942 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to teach my ex Python. < 1311437897 841722 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is probably a reason she is my ex. < 1311437934 137591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because she has taste in languages? < 1311437946 495672 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite. < 1311437949 872279 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to teach my ex to program a few times but she just got really mad because she didn't get it < 1311437959 441616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or didn't get it quickly enough < 1311437963 181683 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1311437985 415243 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: could you please tell me that < 1311437993 605146 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm scared by your silence < 1311438012 253176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : please tell me Vorpal isn't your boyfriend <-- lol, no I'm not. < 1311438019 414494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1311438033 957528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, just happen to play on the same minecraft server. < 1311438604 461613 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311438864 679863 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311439331 23035 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311439541 796053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311440166 712826 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311440171 339678 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1311440173 449044 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :me dating Vorpal < 1311440177 195740 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry < 1311440178 455464 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just < 1311440179 154956 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1311440184 334076 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offense Vorpal < 1311440186 739413 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't date you :P < 1311440188 743304 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wouldn't date me < 1311440190 456778 :Elizacat!~Elizabeth@awos/2nd-in-command/init PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too crazy < 1311440744 764611 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311441027 633917 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blood is thicker than water, but corn syrup is thicker than blood. (An American national pride slogan by me :P ) < 1311441085 132125 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lava is thicker than corn syrup < 1311441117 489993 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that lava is anyone's (de facto) national beverage. But blood probably is? < 1311441180 587546 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be Icelands? < 1311441219 354405 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was talking about threats of violence < 1311441350 937411 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're ruining my slogan buzz :P < 1311442392 162091 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Lasagne went in at 6:32 < 1311442404 147067 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh sgeo < 1311442425 447124 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh ohhhhhhhhh, sgettio < 1311442447 668308 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know where I'm off to? Lancaster! < 1311442459 94694 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lancaster? < 1311442465 724501 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's in Lancashire! < 1311442472 942683 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dun dun DUNNN < 1311442478 654280 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to Durham tomorrow < 1311442495 711255 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, after tomorrow morning, I won't be online 'till Tuesday < 1311442811 449737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was crazy... X broke... By refusing the believe in the mouse cursor. For example, xkill said it couldn't grab mouse. And mouse did nothing... < 1311442821 676369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it moved around just fine < 1311442830 797723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but click didn't work < 1311443023 343531 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-175-60.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1311444425 188760 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :iceland;s national beverage is alcoholic pine tree < 1311445293 386858 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can ferment or distill or whatever coffee beans < 1311445351 780020 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-254-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it won' < 1311445358 1010 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-254-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :t kill yeast, you can ferment it. < 1311445366 302445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-254-44.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it's liquid, you can distill it. < 1311445512 185217 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311445512 383246 :itidus20|afk!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311445811 812742 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311446046 797686 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet mercury would kill yeast ... < 1311446322 329835 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what the test service numbers are for my telephone service? Including, telling you your own telephone number, disconnecting your line for a few minutes, etc < 1311446991 139561 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-1.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311447029 283170 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-254-44.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311447067 506424 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://therighttool.hammerprinciple.com/statements/i-often-get-angry-when-writing-code-in-this-langua < 1311447070 685653 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :*giggles* < 1311447239 195856 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone likes haskell on this site < 1311447303 414919 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : /win 1 < 1311447522 182604 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In spite of the wording, that's clearly a popularity contest. < 1311447536 398988 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few people get angry while programming in Haskell because few people program in Haskell. < 1311447565 803160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, probably that would be why. < 1311447761 842729 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange that that site doesn't let you rank things equal. < 1311448075 590027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311448235 866535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, weird observation: within the first 3 or 4 minutes of my computer loading, the touchpad won't move the mouse cursor above the bottom half of the screen, it keeps bouncing down < 1311448239 71851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a while, it works fine < 1311449124 952812 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311449564 273214 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have now regopherized the Space Weather Prediction Center. < 1311449617 517818 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some of the files don't work but that is not my fault.) < 1311449665 636405 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoa < 1311450087 182925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that? I don't know why some files don't work, but the problem is on their end, not on my end. < 1311450132 907135 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311450139 156770 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The same files fail to work when using other protocols too, including HTTP and FTP.) < 1311450347 125939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311450937 150604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklopol: 123 is like oerjan but better < 1311450938 707418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311451082 745133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this still referring to that pixelcomic < 1311451256 607676 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311451297 665517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those kind of puns are too square for me < 1311452552 909746 :Taneb_!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311452645 8752 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311452753 140572 :Taneb_!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 NICK :Taneb < 1311453678 957815 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311453761 389116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the D&D game my character current has two items: a 25-foot rope and a navy guest uniform. < 1311453778 677273 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now make up a computer game text adventure game < 1311453854 385845 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311454190 742153 :Lymee!~moe@adsl-69-149-47-68.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311454191 158890 :Lymee!~moe@adsl-69-149-47-68.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311454191 356605 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1311454245 540781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311454350 485824 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't end up posting my password in here, did I? The graphics driver died, and I flailed around blindly trying to "sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart" < 1311454413 132362 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sent nothing in the past few minutes look in the log files to make sure < 1311454459 239331 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-253.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311454459 953455 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-226-1.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311454913 841578 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything else about my optimization problem now? < 1311455566 618216 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what was it again? < 1311455594 529778 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311455761 863246 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Start searching the recent IRC log for "Say that there is a command - which does the next letter" < 1311455807 335134 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The starting timestamp is 1311396023 although there are at least three different formats and from different computers, so just search the text instead) < 1311455998 786749 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1311456005 90399 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt quite make sense < 1311456010 649705 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll read it better soon < 1311456022 653809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tunes' time zone is so broken you cannot even search on the minutes. < 1311456176 487574 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: use codu < 1311456184 322500 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :advicewithoutcontext.com < 1311459174 222798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: there's a thread on haskell-cafe about that reallyUnsafePointerEq# you used http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2011-July/094103.html < 1311459257 360343 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311459523 507896 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems my use was safe with forseeable ghc < 1311459537 735703 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311459578 501673 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311459763 835225 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am alarmed by the fact that I now feel the need to run memtest < 1311460410 415326 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: What stuff doesn't quite make sense? < 1311460964 533219 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try eat your chopsticks right now! < 1311462225 882582 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20 < 1311462294 42937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no chopsticks! < 1311462305 156663 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do i... < 1311462530 215469 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look in your cupboard or drawer or closet or cabinet or wherever you keep it. < 1311462609 653943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't you know, i do have a couple! < 1311462622 160773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, they're a bit too nicely decorated to eat. < 1311462632 899258 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :follow the white rabbit < 1311462660 314983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i don't want to be chasing the clock < 1311462664 920728 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU it's a marsh hare! a marsh hare! < 1311462674 541573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311462707 688253 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :we planted the chopsticks for you to eat < 1311462724 33035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i don't believe you. < 1311462741 859766 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we are HERE < 1311462744 557872 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. i apologize < 1311462745 469432 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 QUIT :Quit: disconnection error < 1311462771 668031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no you are not. < 1311462787 270210 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311462791 699619 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, great timing itidus20. < 1311462804 567070 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now oerjan will not BELIEVE THAT THING that WAS DEFINITELY not TRUE at all. < 1311462826 621568 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: LETJOISE HAVE A PERARTY < 1311462848 553023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :QANTUM BEER NEEDSITY? < 1311462923 693512 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if oerjan was that guy in norway who did that bad stuff, would we even know. :/ < 1311462931 645503 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just saying that there are a lot of people in norway < 1311462934 625400 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you cannot trust them all < 1311462944 42676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i doubt they would let him chat from prison. < 1311462976 110952 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying you escaped :| < 1311462986 706907 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this is probably in bad taste :DDDDD < 1311462990 379199 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im sorry ive deeply offended u < 1311462999 636009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not escaped. but not from the same place, either. < 1311463049 667275 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311463054 972689 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to escape < 1311463055 364764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there are similarities. i am blond, somewhat tall, and not a muslim. < 1311463055 937619 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS < 1311463056 458513 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORTAL < 1311463057 139708 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :COIL < 1311463101 783016 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1311463116 413217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll ignore that question. < 1311463122 584815 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311463151 980321 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. sory. lo oerjan. < 1311463174 251117 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh riead as suggestion < 1311463179 64345 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hows a ijf < 1311463189 528377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very rieadbale < 1311463209 206299 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thatw as when oerjan turned into a cat < 1311463212 763762 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~Thend/ < 1311463229 24875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :miawat < 1311463265 831458 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mcofnused < 1311463280 489247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: itns eryvoene < 1311463315 624284 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memory passed < 1311463325 199121 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest in peace sgeos memory < 1311463414 91815 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote My memory passed rest in peace sgeos memory < 1311463415 354645 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :542) My memory passed rest in peace sgeos memory < 1311463423 347805 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ever finish writing at.html < 1311463425 170743 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading < 1311463431 350870 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, /me wants to read it < 1311463435 533368 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ae re verbs actulay < 1311463441 65464 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: me yes i did < 1311463443 930094 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: iduno if anyone else can stan,d,,,,,the @,, < 1311463456 665288 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, you're acting drunk < 1311463459 890948 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has, maximal @ level contents. < 1311463460 839542 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you're drunk, but < 1311463474 357449 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so's your face OHOHHHHHHHHHHH BURNSJAP < 1311463487 244621 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no if i was intoxicated i would be sure to be much, much more amusing than this < 1311463496 731906 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically if i'm ever really funny........... < 1311463542 773461 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway drunk people don't act like anything, they just act like irritable, annoying, stupid versions of themselves < 1311463549 865300 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a shame since it's rly boring < 1311463555 44428 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so are you old enough to drink yet? < 1311463583 104949 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you can drink indoors from like six years old here??????? < 1311463586 528223 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no < 1311463601 723075 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :three and a bit months before that, but it seems pretty boring so i probably won't bother < 1311463694 357742 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcohol education taught me never to drink to get drunk < 1311463703 344943 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an important life lesson < 1311463728 653077 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did you follow it < 1311463738 939557 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not of legal drinking age......... < 1311463747 192115 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so yes then < 1311463766 782183 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not actually sure at all why people would get drunk alcohol honestly just seems like the most boring drug, i'm utterly sincere < 1311463790 955608 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-246.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311463819 120657 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people" < 1311463839 824667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it. take it from a norwegian. < 1311463855 413308 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so is squarelos the best,,, it is a long story involving me reading the crawl learndb and talking to ais < 1311463864 831491 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people" yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it. take it from a norwegian. < 1311463865 679334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well stab people, in the case of weapon-deprived british < 1311463866 133679 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :543) cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people" yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it. take it from a norwegian. < 1311463878 470736 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: public humiliation < 1311463879 712149 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stop making me into a person i don't want to be with laughter < 1311463884 752421 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is not cool????? < 1311463892 915054 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i am asking,,,sincere questions:((( < 1311463895 526031 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311463896 588182 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is squarelos,,cool < 1311463901 210289 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not play, crawl, at all, ever, so, < 1311463904 926007 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311463907 479320 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its sort of a joke < 1311463907 686671 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is good to improve things even if they are bad things < 1311463927 259714 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais says that devs dislike it experienced players like it and everyone else dislikes it < 1311463930 431214 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this true and also is this redundant < 1311463933 239682 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see crawl has circular line of sight which is ridiculous < 1311463943 799014 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1311463945 307832 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to have eyes that have circular line of sight < 1311463948 361711 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great < 1311463950 697810 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well spherical < 1311463957 786895 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well um do i < 1311463960 553274 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know much about eyes < 1311463964 729987 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311464000 254610 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :square los was tried but then got taken down so i made an account called squarelos to lament its demise < 1311464006 835774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :line of sight tracing a mandelbrot fractal < 1311464009 701449 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1311464031 937587 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway pretty much the only way i ever play crawl anymore is doing stupid things as squarelos true story < 1311464035 168772 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stop youre just making the universe seem relaly inadequate < 1311464042 192216 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: thats a good way to play games < 1311464063 575830 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311464066 635969 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with circlelos? < 1311464092 237008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was ist los < 1311464134 321876 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :line of sight < 1311464148 949146 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: distance is such that an actual circle in crawl would look like a square this is how crawl space works....yet there's a bucnh of inconsistency like line of sight is based on what looks like a circle to unenlightened humans < 1311464154 775189 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo actually likes crawl though because he's a dumb < 1311464160 739790 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1311464169 825216 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"distance is such that an actual circle in crawl would look like a square this is how crawl space works" < 1311464171 868585 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is beautiful < 1311464175 331312 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see crawl space < 1311464187 201185 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1311464190 271986 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just manhattan distance < 1311464191 216538 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just chebyshev space i think but it pretends it isnt < 1311464192 170657 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand < 1311464205 699489 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :manhattan is taxicab right? crawl has diagonals. < 1311464210 776888 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i confusing things < 1311464211 655370 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think manhattan is orthogonal moves only < 1311464213 891446 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :taxicab yeah. and diagonals suck < 1311464249 674044 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, sometimes I get urges to write things in C that relaly shouldn't be written in C < 1311464253 131315 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :help;p < 1311464269 607112 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to try Chicken again for some reason
< 1311464271 23089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of things do you mean? < 1311464281 415394 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best reason to write anything in anything is that it shouldn't be done < 1311464282 342790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what programming language do you think those things should be written in? < 1311464284 564775 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i cannot say, it is too abhorrent < 1311464307 516692 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, web toolkit's been done (for either C or C++, don't remember) < 1311464313 851125 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no shit < 1311464324 195771 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt < 1311464324 717587 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, the best reason to write anything in anything is that it *cannot* be done (or at least, it seems like it, until it works) < 1311464341 866138 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i was trying to replicate java-style generics except without type erasure because i don't think you can even do that in C. why? well because it shouldn't be done. also because it meant i could implement a custom allocator which, like, knew all about your objects and could inspect them? which would be cool. but. basically i want to implement half a jvm at c level just because it sounds hard/fun < 1311464344 726194 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1311464346 822278 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a bad sign < 1311464366 363681 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x = (magnitude x)" < 1311464371 766421 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> (magnitude x)typecheck1[0])==1?abc(x):xyz(x)) < 1311464913 800838 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my thoughts ideas, at least. < 1311464949 375559 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, thank you < 1311464958 76595 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, all this stuff looks old < 1311464981 645851 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But how does that fail at type-time if it'st he wrong size? < 1311464989 652545 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size is obviously always 1 < 1311465023 847607 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if (x) is of a different type, then sizeof(x->typecheck1[0]) is not 1 < 1311465039 621423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can omit the [0] for another number < 1311465052 10021 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311465124 860993 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course this is using completely standard C89. GNU C has its own things. And what is probably acceptable in many compilers (or at least, should be) is make a member of the structure with zero elements array, and then you can measure the size of the array element it can be any number you want without messing up the rest of the program! < 1311465212 79885 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't know for sure, this idea might also be possible with LLVM to force each different structure type to be considered different by having different sizes of data of zero length array at the end. < 1311465331 188207 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/jesus-deepak-chopra/1012718717?ean=9780061980404&itm=7&usri=jesus for the life of me, I can't figure out who the target market is < 1311465498 361067 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ever read about the Uncarrot Tarot? I did have a idea of a four-player trick-taking game using those cards, which I called "Rulers". (It uses all the cards, including the metas.) < 1311465568 86440 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a Hitchhiker is played to a trick, then you must Hitchhike. < 1311465610 253795 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Pickle" card can be played as a minor or as a major, depending on circumstances. < 1311465815 443421 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The player with the Title card must lead that card on the first turn at the beginning of the game (unless nobody has that card in case it is a face-down hidden card in the center of the table). < 1311466122 266065 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write up the full rules? < 1311466161 478906 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is lambdabot in #esoteric? < 1311466166 119942 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I never have. I have never actually thought of the full rules, but I have thought of many ideas, a few of which I forget. < 1311466216 190665 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I did remember a few things of my ideas, and possibly even have new ideas I can write here. Other people can also make up ideas, since it is incomplete. < 1311466288 198187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You score by the first trick, the last trick, sequences, and by taking tricks containing "rulers". < 1311466327 873003 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must follow suit if possible, and sometimes follow ranks. < 1311466367 979863 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Majors beat minors (and miscellaneous suited cards), metas beat everything. However, some majors and metas have special powers. < 1311466384 666857 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311466431 140682 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The card with instructions for divinations is used too in this game, although after playing this game you cannot use the deck for divination since the divination rules require that the deck is never shuffled.) < 1311466463 362244 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> (x,x) < 1311466463 874301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (,) < 1311466520 353313 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@t join < 1311466520 613405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v < 1311466527 101937 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type join < 1311466528 121760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a < 1311466543 740728 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311466555 251579 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311466835 732286 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot how the function monad instance works < 1311467451 639223 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x -> map (\y -> (tick*x, tick*y)) [-half..half]) < 1311467452 29153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 37): < 1311467452 236573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "[" < 1311467452 236753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or ")" < 1311467473 668154 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> map (\y -> (tick*x, tick*y)) [-half..half] < 1311467474 270168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 36): < 1311467474 477678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "[" < 1311467474 477773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or end of input < 1311467476 457470 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311467492 680393 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> map (\y -> (tick*x, tick*y)) < 1311467493 170712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map . (. (tick *)) . (,) . (tick *) < 1311467499 185336 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok yeah not replacing that < 1311467515 878377 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> map (\y -> (tick*x, tick*y)) [negate half .. half] < 1311467516 85874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip map [negate half..half] . (. (tick *)) . (,) . (tick *) < 1311467521 678689 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reaches for a barf bag
< 1311467533 916010 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> map (\y -> (tick*x, tick*y)) (enumFromTo (-half) half) < 1311467534 123412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip map [negate half..half] . (. (tick *)) . (,) . (tick *) < 1311467631 30904 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x -> map (\y -> (tick*x, tick*y)) = map . (join (***) (tick *) .) . (,) < 1311467733 38137 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :barf barf barf < 1311467790 297107 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd write that as \x -> map (join (***) (tick*) . (,) x), or (x,) with -XTupleSections, or with both = join (***) defined somewhere < 1311467860 814574 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or \x -> let tx = tick*x in map ((tx,) . (tick*)) < 1311468013 210452 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death > 1311468262 121228 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468283 233279 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468304 591549 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468341 445687 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468391 893966 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468449 192519 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468493 486133 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468537 479503 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468581 493796 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468621 863581 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468661 881661 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468706 886995 JOIN :#esoteric > 1311468744 490812 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311468744 543948 :glogbot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1311468827 659013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : why is lambdabot in #esoteric? <-- because we asked nicely (well i assume it was nicely) < 1311469206 878034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (*) `on` recip < 1311469207 457578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => a -> a -> a < 1311469231 376865 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Fractional -> Integral < 1311469231 539855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown type Fractional < 1311469231 612371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1311469231 664494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1311469246 658264 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Double < 1311469246 770332 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Double = D# Double# < 1311469249 436641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: floor, ceiling, round < 1311469254 321209 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1311469267 5585 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t floor < 1311469267 632108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1311469275 648731 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311469280 422045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractional can be e.g. complex < 1311469280 500642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna be a Devil's Advocate < 1311469343 346437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> map (\y -> (tick*x, tick*y)) [ -half..half] < 1311469343 399232 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 36): < 1311469343 399398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "[" < 1311469343 399511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or end of input < 1311469348 904247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1311469386 952500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird broken parser < 1311469395 758262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given that it accepts it without - < 1311469397 478271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1311470276 650903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why do you want to be Devil's Advocate? < 1311470298 801968 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've boredly given some thought to what I consider an inane position < 1311470318 148921 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can make it "work" fsvo "work" < 1311471693 239482 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. < 1311471701 160764 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing the Mandelbrot set with this: length $ takeWhile ((<2) . magnitude) $ take maxIters $ iterate step $ 0.0 :+ 0.0 < 1311471705 129909 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't figure out any optimizations. < 1311471718 179655 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody have any ideas? =w= < 1311471718 877066 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1311471739 170726 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no wait, can't do that. < 1311471749 813769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: magnitude is somewhat expensive as it requires a square root < 1311471788 342217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Complex a -> a < 1311471788 412011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Complex imagPart :: RealFloat a => Complex a -> a < 1311471788 465414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Complex magnitude :: RealFloat a => Complex a -> a < 1311471788 465559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Complex phase :: RealFloat a => Complex a -> a < 1311471895 514025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \(a :+ b) -> a*a + b*b < 4) < 1311471896 145185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `)' < 1311471897 775588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1311471900 780255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \(a :+ b) -> a*a + b*b < 4 < 1311471901 433761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (RealFloat t) => Complex t -> Bool < 1311471908 314088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be better < 1311471972 54783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also perhaps findIndex is more efficient than length $ takeWhile ... < 1311471982 401842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t findIndex < 1311471982 939658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe Int < 1311472013 381746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then again, maybe not) < 1311472072 810753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it all depends on ghc's list fusion being able to optimize away the intermediate lists < 1311472332 393292 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> ((double $ imagPart x) + (double $ realPart x)) < 4 < 1311472332 485339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(< 4) . ap ((+) . double . imagPart) (double . realPart) < 1311472370 384958 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap < 1311472371 17088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1311472376 484710 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1311472376 556371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error: < 1311472376 608652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : --count=20 "forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b" < 1311472376 608845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1311472384 634765 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Monad m) => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1311472384 854966 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad ap :: Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1311472384 961932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad liftM :: Monad m => (a1 -> r) -> m a1 -> m r < 1311472385 14586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<*>) :: Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1311472820 871309 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160096.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311473360 353644 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> xCenter+tick*x < 1311473360 425129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(xCenter +) . (tick *) < 1311473605 683858 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311473778 217924 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t findIndex < 1311473778 896319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe Int < 1311473786 565344 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (a->a)->a->Int < 1311473787 256121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `->' < 1311473793 287233 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (a -> a) -> a -> Int < 1311473793 953083 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `->' < 1311473818 450725 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1311473830 782948 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> a) -> a -> Int < 1311473830 923872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Schemes everywhere :: (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1311473830 996115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Schemes everywhere' :: (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1311473831 48265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude until :: (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1311473864 77071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :until doesn't count number of steps, alas < 1311474084 155556 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311474084 207880 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1311474539 548398 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :A, doh. < 1311474552 197953 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed z^^2 into z*z < 1311474562 756488 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, almost halved time! < 1311474579 119760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: there was a reason i wrote it with that yeah :P < 1311474627 698647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr someone wondering why ghc doesn't optimize x^2 to x*x before < 1311474649 370600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x^2 < 1311474650 42001 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : x * x < 1311474681 274597 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1311474681 687979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are absolutely identical < 1311474692 700025 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x * 3 < 1311474693 394518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : x * 3 < 1311474704 328331 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t x < 1311474705 17794 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1311474709 899653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1311474716 801586 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x :: Num < 1311474717 462150 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Class `GHC.Num.Num' used as a type < 1311474719 331619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in final result) < 1311474723 572496 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> show x < 1311474724 340637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "x" < 1311474730 429882 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1311474734 534425 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a good idea < 1311474740 644064 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I thought everyone already knew about Expr. < 1311474741 583190 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> y < 1311474742 223118 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y < 1311474745 276612 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix f < 1311474745 916568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1311474745 969432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1311474745 969592 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1311474749 370930 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a < 1311474750 68517 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a < 1311474751 986072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix f :: Expr < 1311474752 670269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (... < 1311474816 614425 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (*) [a,b,c,d,e] < 1311474817 353093 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [a,a * b,a * b * c,a * b * c * d,a * b * c * d * e] < 1311474928 624377 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a+b < 1311474929 296145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a + b < 1311474932 382007 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1311474934 877941 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know that existed. < 1311474941 44046 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any way to evaluate that? < 1311474947 625574 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a+g < 1311474948 363392 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a + g < 1311474951 885443 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (a+g) 1 1 < 1311474952 420088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t2 -> t' < 1311474952 492060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1311474955 996406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to my knowledge < 1311474967 100556 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t a < 1311474967 810749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1311474972 222432 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Expr < 1311474972 295022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1311474987 794576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: it's in a package named simplereflect < 1311474991 401944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1311475034 103140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-reflect < 1311475097 499606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's a reduction function < 1311475114 618787 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduction (a+b+c+d) < 1311475117 300654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1311475119 356371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduction (a+b+c+d) < 1311475120 24988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `reduction' < 1311475122 667765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311475155 961618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe lambdabot doesn't have the latest version < 1311475168 509701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (1+2+3+4) < 1311475169 142560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 + 3 + 4 < 1311475174 294201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduction (1+2+3+4) < 1311475174 831429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `reduction' < 1311475182 196777 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>reduce (a+b+c+d) < 1311475186 284623 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (a+b+c+d) < 1311475186 903863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a + b + c + d < 1311475192 449155 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (a*b+a*c) < 1311475193 161418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a * b + a * c < 1311475197 499881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it cannot reduce pure symbols < 1311475202 652520 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (a*(b+c)) < 1311475203 310734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a * (b + c) < 1311475208 298908 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. < 1311475216 45031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate reduce (1+2+3+4) < 1311475216 629797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1 + 2 + 3 + 4,3 + 3 + 4,6 + 4,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10... < 1311475251 866851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate reduce (1*2+3*4) < 1311475252 557353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1 * 2 + 3 * 4,2 + 3 * 4,2 + 12,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,14,1... < 1311475318 16349 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> fst $ head $ dropUntil (\x -> (fst x) == (snd x)) $ zipWith (,) x $ tail x) $ iterate reduce (1*2+3*4) < 1311475318 640738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `dropUntil' < 1311475330 694406 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1311475338 631707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t var < 1311475339 251190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. String -> Sym a < 1311475347 460502 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> fst $ head $ dropWhile (\x -> (fst x) != (snd x)) $ zipWith (,) x $ tail x) $ iterate reduce (1*2+3*4) < 1311475348 33705 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `!=' < 1311475358 400579 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> fst $ head $ dropWhile (\x -> !((fst x) == (snd x))) $ zipWith (,) x $ tail x) $ iterate reduce (1*2+3*4) < 1311475359 37188 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `!' < 1311475363 397265 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> fst $ head $ dropWhile (\x -> not ((fst x) == (snd x))) $ zipWith (,) x $ tail x) $ iterate reduce (1*2+3*4) < 1311475363 988849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * 2 + 3 * 4 < 1311475367 676909 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1311475564 319301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> dropWhile (uncurry (/=)) . ap zip tail $ iterate reduce (1*2+3*4) < 1311475565 696256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1 * 2 + 3 * 4,2 + 3 * 4),(2 + 3 * 4,2 + 12),(2 + 12,14),(14,14),(14,14),(... < 1311475572 314975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1311475590 338922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap zip tail $ iterate reduce (1*2+3*4) < 1311475591 38546 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1 * 2 + 3 * 4,2 + 3 * 4),(2 + 3 * 4,2 + 12),(2 + 12,14),(14,14),(14,14),(... < 1311475632 398646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 14 == (14 :: Expr) < 1311475633 89240 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1311475645 719341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (2+12) == (14 :: Expr) < 1311475646 328067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1311475674 579711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (2+12) /= (14 :: Expr) < 1311475675 216390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1311475690 291934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2+12 /= (14 :: Expr) < 1311475690 959205 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1311475696 24119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1311475699 7703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1311475718 741953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually reduces when comparing < 1311475837 939578 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/PXcS0k5G < is my code horrible? < 1311475866 535644 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (2+12+4+5) /= (14 :: Expr) < 1311475867 202720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1311475876 464528 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (2+12+4+5) /= (25 :: Expr) < 1311475877 129033 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1311475883 704068 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (2+12+4+5) /= (25 :: Expr) < 1311475884 367655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1311475891 410657 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate reduce (2+12+4+5) < 1311475892 38641 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2 + 12 + 4 + 5,14 + 4 + 5,18 + 5,23,23,23,23,23,23,23,23,23,23,23,23,23,23... < 1311475895 72836 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps < 1311475896 809703 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :my math fail < 1311475899 962612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311475900 498587 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (2+12+4+5) /= (23 :: Expr) < 1311475901 148003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1311476028 156926 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (i*i) < 1311476028 874355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : i * i < 1311476034 307581 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (i+i) < 1311476034 958921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : i + i < 1311476043 424355 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (i^3) < 1311476044 73515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : i * i * i < 1311476050 701881 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reduce (i^(100^100)) < 1311476051 316096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : i * i * (i * i) * (i * i * (i * i)) * (i * i * (i * i) * (i * i * (i * i)))... < 1311476053 145710 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1311476070 638961 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> take 10 $ show x) $ iterate reduce (i^(100^100)) < 1311476071 390578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["i * i * (i","i * i * (i","i * i * (i","i * i * (i","i * i * (i","i * i * ... < 1311476082 374049 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> drop 100 $ iterate reduce (i^(100^100)) < 1311476083 62839 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [i * i * (i * i) * (i * i * (i * i)) * (i * i * (i * i) * (i * i * (i * i))... < 1311476089 140051 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> drop 1000 $ iterate reduce (i^(100^100)) < 1311476089 809256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [i * i * (i * i) * (i * i * (i * i)) * (i * i * (i * i) * (i * i * (i * i))... < 1311476092 975917 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1311476099 213254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@redo map (\y -> map (\x -> fracf $ (xCenter+x) :+ (yCenter+y)) range) range < 1311476099 265703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: do read todo undo < 1311476103 775867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1311476109 838318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list undo < 1311476109 892077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :undo provides: undo do < 1311476115 843325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@do map (\y -> map (\x -> fracf $ (xCenter+x) :+ (yCenter+y)) range) range < 1311476115 895725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (\ y -> map (\ x -> fracf $ (xCenter + x) :+ (yCenter + y)) range) range < 1311476121 606294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1311476128 645428 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you want to do? < 1311476131 625070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@do x >>= f < 1311476131 677963 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { a <- x; f a} < 1311476140 44387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn it into a list comprehension < 1311476148 541039 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1311476239 318381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ [ fracf $ (xCenter+x) :+ (yCenter+y)) | x <- range ] | y <- range ] < 1311476284 932661 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already did it. < 1311476286 750952 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311476348 387533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have some more parentheses than necessary, but fair enough < 1311476435 65207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also double is usually called square < 1311476520 527738 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1311476521 805300 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why did i do that < 1311476535 523582 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>< < 1311476538 897719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me :P < 1311476622 688946 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : -cpp Run the C pre-processor on Haskell source files < 1311476622 905265 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : [dynamic] < 1311476626 107888 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any reason to ever do that? < 1311476657 409448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell doesn't have much in the way of conditional compilation without it < 1311476667 732756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well didn't use to, anyway < 1311476679 395110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can use template haskell these days < 1311476721 265700 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I read about Haskell, C pre-processor doesn't seem like the best kind of preprocessor for Haskell (because of the meanings of # and ' in Haskell, as well as other things) < 1311476740 122401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's actually a slightly modified preprocessor < 1311476748 159139 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What might be improved is something like how the macro preprocessor stuff in WEB but changed for Haskell stuff. < 1311476806 736274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when hugs was still alive, it shared a number of library source files with ghc, which sometimes used cpp < 1311476848 433768 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For various reasons, I doubt a C preprocessor would work well with Haskell. < 1311476898 724890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, it is a modified one. < 1311476900 756481 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :[snip]:~/hs$ time ./mandelbrot 1000 0 0 1 300 output.png < 1311476900 972486 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m24.731s < 1311476901 25065 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m24.650s < 1311476901 25176 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.036s < 1311476901 25235 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :[snip]:~/hs$ time ./mandelbrot 1000 0 0 1 300 output.png < 1311476901 624419 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m7.606s < 1311476903 851327 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1311476905 630093 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1311476916 181116 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is -O9 really that effective? < 1311476985 112299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well -O2 is effective, iirc -O3 sometimes gets worse, and i don't think there's a difference beyond that < 1311476994 240431 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boggles
< 1311476996 814952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, a modified one might work. < 1311477031 283556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc -O3 uses some experimental optimizations that are not guaranteed to actually make things better. < 1311477046 348024 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The executable -O2 and -O3 generate are identical, so.. < 1311477102 399744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's actually -O1 and -O2 < 1311477118 98026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/options-optimise.html < 1311477141 490016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At the moment, -O2 is unlikely to produce better code than -O. < 1311477143 202407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311477281 123598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, there's not actually a number for using those that make things worse. < 1311477504 173241 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311477897 744323 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/ < 1311477952 388559 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not funny. < 1311477952 726694 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1311478189 628247 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is IUP generally well-regarded? < 1311478474 193549 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311478787 723361 :azaq23!~derivecto@pD9E34D86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311478788 912394 :azaq23!~derivecto@pD9E34D86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Changing host < 1311478788 964886 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311478908 245692 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohai < 1311479245 496379 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm... crap < 1311479256 755813 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut < 1311479267 729757 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing that script I wanted will be harder than I thought < 1311479288 376844 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have to account for translational symmetry too < 1311479329 729569 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too hard, just annoying < 1311479358 481071 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1311480225 403664 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311480234 279933 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-174-253.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311480446 413009 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311482030 222658 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sounds like you want some kind of ABSTRACTION < 1311482065 403115 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION trumpets
< 1311482096 688052 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly are there programmers out there who think abstraction is in general bad? < 1311482156 645244 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :better not be < 1311482165 9525 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :College C programmers < 1311482197 641197 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle admins < 1311482806 343455 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about COBOL programmers? < 1311482850 183351 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM FORTRAN AND I DISLIKE CHANGE < 1311483365 132786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether you need abstraction as well as what kind of abstraction depends on a lot of stuff! < 1311483925 123637 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the socioeconomic status of your target demographic, for instance < 1311483937 462470 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...the price of oil in canada < 1311483962 497053 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the age of the current pope of course < 1311484032 632169 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also your favorite ice cream < 1311484045 414590 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lactose intolerant have no need for abstraction < 1311484084 401845 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an obvious truth, whose proof is left as an exercise to the reader. < 1311486188 947485 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I wrote something as a joke for rules of a card game, the value of the Queen card is current age of the queen, and to figure out the value of a Joker card you tell a joke to your opponent, and the value of this card is however many times your opponent laughs. < 1311486266 174994 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did a couple hours of magic turn into 8? < 1311486271 642928 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/magic/Magic/ < 1311486307 623445 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, whatever, I regret it not. < 1311486312 914986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have more information? < 1311486318 466773 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: magic, of course < 1311486329 762415 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe question can be answered, then?) < 1311486400 760721 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the texts I wrote some jokes of rules for card game and stuff. Here is some of it: < 1311486415 667195 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game can be played by any number of people, as long as the number of people is even and prime. First, shuffle the cards. The players can now make a deal, either an addition deal or a multiplication deal. And then you figure out the values of the cards, and then finally you deal the cards. < 1311486421 367798 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the deck has 40 cards, then you get 3 cards. If the deck has 52 cards, then you get 4 cards. If you are a funny guy, then you get 5 cards. If your name is Aaron, then you get 6 cards. < 1311486504 773095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This document also jokes about measuring the resistance of pokemon cards in ohms. < 1311486508 136575 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311486515 419863 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1311486590 614031 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GamesMadeStupid/cardgame.htm < 1311486635 176143 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't write it completely by myself (I forget exactly which parts) although I did write much of it and I did put everything together. < 1311486723 147234 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm not entirely sure why I *started* this, other than that someone said "lol if freebsd used git, they'd have to have a gigantic repo in /usr/src", but cvs2git of FreeBSD's repo has taken two days thus far. < 1311486802 117156 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the win condition for solitair < 1311486804 613294 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*solitaire < 1311486842 610702 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FWIW, FreeBSD typically has a CVS checkout of the source used to build the system in /usr/src) < 1311486855 273757 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1311486889 567778 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally, I'm going to be surprised if the git repo of all changes from '93 is larger than a CVS checkout. < 1311486986 852014 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't CVS put metadata in the file though? < 1311487035 112654 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311487048 745411 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, it's optional metadata in the file. < 1311487059 322168 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does cvs2git strip it? < 1311487078 330196 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* it just fills in the metadata. < 1311487101 821941 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it leaves it alone? < 1311487105 307807 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I'll look. < 1311487388 362519 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crud, my eyes are going weird < 1311487402 804647 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading a Homestuck update, and some of the text looks like it's popping out < 1311487406 814592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the color < 1311487484 18037 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link? < 1311487608 538604 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, have you read all of Homestuck? < 1311487618 900616 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311488392 835512 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically no one has. < 1311488493 426889 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew husey in the future < 1311488525 240721 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adnrew, sorry < 1311488642 827444 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't find the character Evinrude's (in The Rescuers) name meaningful until I got older < 1311488647 566454 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it was funny for a second < 1311488662 559128 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should finish PS < 1311488685 485328 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a dragonfly, you see, and he propels mouse sized boats around a bayou < 1311488993 997553 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got the joke the first time i saw it < 1311488998 738034 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was like 7 < 1311489008 212188 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How good are you at optimization algorithms and that stuff? I was trying to make some kind of optimization. However, I cannot quite figure it out. That is why, I would like some help too. And then I can learn. < 1311489026 707396 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopi1: I lived in a landlocked state < 1311489034 142353 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no boating friends < 1311489039 529813 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1311489041 785667 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry I didn't have a yacht like some people < 1311489044 670624 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311489075 81128 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry i was taken fishing from very young in tiny johnboats < 1311489099 634054 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did all my fishing from land :D < 1311489133 152794 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 NICK :quintopia < 1311489147 92401 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1311489147 144920 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1311489357 989674 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e45a.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311489676 545340 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db4e45a.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311489972 479076 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna thank whoever linked me to: http://everything2.com/title/Using+Asteroids+to+explain+the+topological+classification+of+2-manifolds < 1311489991 131654 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reading it now and the idea is making sense < 1311490040 271781 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311490077 600219 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now what we need is a torus shaped monitor < 1311490138 33430 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with uh.. touchscreen < 1311490174 999602 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be incredibly boring and a stupid idea and i'll just let it go < 1311490175 347392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1311490264 42277 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen a diagram in a book where they described a TV screen being shaped like torus. I think the reason is similar, too. < 1311490274 782487 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being stupid? < 1311490313 886469 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it didn't have touchscreen) < 1311490328 436749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor would touchscreen help in the context it was given in) < 1311490361 88018 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Is that a question to me? Or to itidus20? < 1311490393 251111 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant was the reason for the toroidal TV screen "being stupid"? < 1311490431 263423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! The reason was to indicate having no edges and you can move one direction to end up in the same place, and so on things like that. < 1311490464 258241 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you would not have such a TV screen, I don't think it would work very well for any circumstances I can understand. < 1311490490 641376 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly a joke < 1311490536 156188 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d932d46b.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311490740 170782 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my last name were more palindrome friendly. < 1311490768 552369 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this panel setup for the scratch is making everything extremely difficult to follow < 1311490783 115271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also doesn't help that I've forgetting details of what happened.... < 1311490786 428034 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+been < 1311490897 643721 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: sleep < 1311490990 625308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( The Science of Discworld isn't available as an ebook < 1311491005 336852 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, not from B&N < 1311491073 631804 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, eBooks.com has it < 1311491884 112685 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i was following it until the spehrical universes bit < 1311491916 330655 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the idea that a sphere doesn't really need an edge? < 1311492080 764960 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind.. im pretty sure i know what a sphere is :-s < 1311492081 943172 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311492150 378647 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope someone can understand my register optimization algorithm problem that I have had. And if there is other channel that they know this kinds of things better. < 1311492161 701777 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: But for now I sleep < 1311493456 208150 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311494853 160543 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-d932d46b.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311495545 327867 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Expr < 1311495546 40758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Expr' < 1311495561 392162 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> Expr < 1311495561 537345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown type Expr < 1311495561 608968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1311495561 661473 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1311495566 520377 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t x < 1311495567 249511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expr < 1311495613 264886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a > b < 1311495613 858532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1311495636 652540 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a < b < 1311495637 362471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1311495642 739660 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a + 1 < b < 1311495643 350455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1311495684 606397 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ a < 1311495685 329974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : succ a < 1311495725 210931 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> EnumFromTo a z < 1311495725 799074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `EnumFromTo' < 1311495729 277341 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> enumFromTo a z < 1311495729 940703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: not a number < 1311495773 537646 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pred . succ $ a < 1311495774 954963 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : pred (succ a) < 1311495830 18249 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jazzscheme.org/images/screenshots/text_jazz.htm I am a bit unnerved by how similar to Java that looks < 1311495866 441283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pretty much is Java. < 1311495895 950895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in program structure. < 1311496264 758179 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings from Lancaster < 1311496284 441549 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311496302 467652 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311496305 128398 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the second time I've had non-latin characters in a captcha < 1311496355 199628 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : haha. "Jazz borrows ideas from ... Java for its simple object system ..." < 1311496491 378620 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Java's *object system* isn't too complex. < 1311496530 888876 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's complex is that it has an overly verbose syntax and utterly retarded APIs. < 1311496539 443722 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with pointless edge cases. < 1311496616 932883 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it suffers from the whole "let's do static typing but not have a good type system" thing. < 1311496913 45776 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with the type system? < 1311496919 268271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from requiring verbose syntax. < 1311496954 51981 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had an idea for an esolang! < 1311496960 840059 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All about ducks! < 1311497002 38197 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's static and not good enough to handle type inference. < 1311497012 248816 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it sucks. < 1311497014 365272 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll have duck typing, and the batman must be dismissed with a score of zero! < 1311497050 236138 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This, in my estimation, is *worse* than being loosely or un-typed. < 1311497906 842340 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in about an hour, I leave < 1311497920 610515 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far to the South < 1311497939 835277 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Durham < 1311497994 212334 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't click this until you read new Homestuck update, but I just want to say I'm lolling at http://bit.ly/nJn669 < 1311498150 285970 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1311498301 665615 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311498668 979400 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311500018 10892 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just discovered my first cavern in Dwarf Fortress < 1311500053 544235 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311501536 749088 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311501575 314947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if this connection will last for more than ten seconds. < 1311501575 405316 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 12 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1311502178 353863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311503005 819868 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311503151 3010 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311503193 68276 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311503352 337239 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db40b7a.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311503938 375292 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-233.tn.glocalnet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone implemented Brainfuck in the SQLite virtual machine? < 1311504351 535962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311505187 675730 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pl (foo a) == (foo b) < 1311505188 307018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `pl'Not in scope: `foo'Not in scope: `foo' < 1311505196 140565 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pl (len a) == (len b) < 1311505196 874525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `pl'Not in scope: `len'Not in scope: `len' < 1311505220 968601 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl < 1311505221 95013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 1): < 1311505221 147079 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected end of input < 1311505221 147278 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression < 1311505231 892633 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y = (len x) == (len y) < 1311505232 52526 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 6): < 1311505232 105593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "=" < 1311505232 105675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting pattern or "->" < 1311505236 401059 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y -> (len x) == (len y) < 1311505236 545593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. len) . (==) . len < 1311505242 192856 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet you < 1311505353 47746 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahah < 1311505624 716634 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (==) `on` length < 1311505625 299842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [a] -> Bool < 1311505637 907437 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know < 1311505640 511923 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just caught myself < 1311506260 646945 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311506510 446412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311507411 979284 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (. len) . (==) . len < 1311507412 695765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `len' < 1311507412 748915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `len' < 1311507421 923277 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (. length) . (==) . length < 1311507422 627210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. [a1] -> [a] -> Bool < 1311507433 618940 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more generic than (==) `on` length < 1311507539 887711 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg no, the doctor is in one of the harry potter movies (and plays a baddie) < 1311507796 802474 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311507968 697602 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \l1 l2 a b -> (l1 a) == (l2 b) < 1311507968 771096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip . (((.) . (==)) .) < 1311507993 479390 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \l1 l2 a b -> (l2 a) == (l1 b) < 1311507993 590601 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (flip . (((.) . (==)) .)) < 1311508005 276206 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \l1 l2 a b -> (l1 b) == (l2 a) < 1311508005 366950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) . flip . ((==) .) < 1311508014 420869 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \l1 l2 a b -> (l2 b) == (l1 a) < 1311508014 473876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip ((.) . flip . ((==) .)) < 1311508026 212599 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I was trying to get rid of the flips. < 1311508041 590129 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be impossible is you want to have both l1 and l2 before a and b. < 1311508096 792761 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultimate goal was makeing "(. length) . (==) . length)" make look more symmetric in the two length calls. < 1311509273 168202 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311509404 891757 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can use the software in any way you like, make money and do as you will, and even change the source code and distribute it and charge for it provided that your changed version still works." < 1311509413 666793 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lambdassociates.org/Shen/newappeal.htm < 1311509427 476644 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, that... is there a legal definition of "works"? < 1311509493 210584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a noun, yes < 1311509495 974089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so as an adjective < 1311509518 514623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there's a legal definition of everything, occasionally the courts have to decide what it is, though < 1311510031 665876 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION for some reason tries Allegro CL Express
< 1311511594 271196 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311511780 109963 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311511856 357135 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ixkql/how_to_make_a_compiler_1000_times_faster/c27guh6 I... uh... < 1311511869 13866 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1311511887 160533 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even _____I_____'m not that stupid to do that, and I barely know what I'm doing < 1311511942 197302 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I'll probably make mistakes that this person doesn't < 1311511998 183785 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And trying to skim what the person wrote just ... dizzies me, so I'm the last person who should be commenting < 1311512756 157954 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sds.podval.org/ocaml-sucks.html is it just me or does this article have a mix of stupidity and insight? < 1311512789 598891 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, n/m < 1311512886 833017 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311513450 679259 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Make no mistake: Java/C/C++/C#/Perl are much worse than OCaml! " < 1311513469 82215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually use OCaml in my day job < 1311513475 87912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made me want to invent Anarchy < 1311513485 878221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's decently good at what it does, but has a few annoyances < 1311513513 473283 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :My view of the world is always getting me down but it's not all that bad. < 1311513549 521754 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like i think people would be less happy overall if i let my own private piece of the world turn to shit < 1311513592 775231 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I think that people get used to what they are doing... and sometimes I get the urge to make breakthroughs and independant rediscoveries < 1311513667 718258 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, at the worst of it... the analyzers start believing their own crap < 1311513683 128870 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that surely drains the life out of them < 1311513684 317909 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now (Dec 1999)" http://sds.podval.org/tool.html < 1311513752 30860 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they speak of what is possible and what is not possible as if they had lived billions of years < 1311513791 636225 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still, 1000s of years ago people alerady knew that billions of years can be insignifigant depending on what you are looking for < 1311513833 209876 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have the audacity to make claims on the computational power of the known universe < 1311513876 488708 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god i am ranting again... when did this happen < 1311513898 16963 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its one of these monologues which someone earlier today told me isn't fitting in a _chatroom_ < 1311514236 475581 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1311515523 661801 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it happens. < 1311515565 123473 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake: i have so much dissatisfaction with so many things that a rant can erupt at any time. < 1311515595 451192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 (flip par) $ scanl1 (*) [1..] < 1311515603 567389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311515603 620183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1311515620 11559 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right, because par would impose strict semantics. < 1311515644 92596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 (flip par) . take 100 . scanl1 (*) $ [1..] < 1311515648 81644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311515653 65811 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 (flip par) . take 50 . scanl1 (*) $ [1..] < 1311515656 553897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1311515662 935709 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311515698 275853 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sometimes I feel like executing the first 50 factorials in parallel for absolutely no gain. < 1311515787 270278 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that's not really what happened. < 1311515806 42615 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1 par . take 50 . scanl1 (*) $ [1..] < 1311515807 464674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 30414093201713378043612608166064768844377641568960512000000000000 < 1311515841 595925 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even then it's still sequential. < 1311516071 670727 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Light, service, state, box, cross, paper, door, teddy bear, fish, dog, apple, stroller, fish trap, slim, high, parent, free, country, swamp, fillet, rosé, parfait, brick, sleep, office, small, hand, clove, child, knife, two, sister, switch, unhappy, warm, inntermost, left, woman, reply, expense, guest, man, fine, spring, eighth, thousand, dead, skirt, step, grandmother, young couple. < 1311516078 153336 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye? < 1311516298 310352 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it woould be nice to have latex support in an IRC client. < 1311516346 896869 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a dream about an annoying douchebag who logged into this channel and spoke almost entirely in fancy latex < 1311516361 814229 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his name changed every post. < 1311516376 662759 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was also full of latex crap. < 1311516403 800715 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, wat. < 1311516426 777896 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deleteAllFiles `par` 'wat' < 1311516427 469170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1311516427 522180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1311516432 432412 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: oh, it's a list of nouns and adjectives. < 1311516456 538707 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 51 types. This is one from each type. < 1311516460 545435 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it's supposed to be. < 1311516777 11999 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ihan vitun kamalan sekavat. < 1311516834 868111 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src seq < 1311516835 84598 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Take a stress pill and think things over. < 1311517119 577078 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\y -> [fracf $ (xCenter+x) :+ (yCenter+y) | x <- range]) < 1311517119 652680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :return . fracf . (<- range) . (| x) . ((xCenter + x) :+) . (yCenter +) < 1311517124 351342 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1311517125 542848 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311517136 832178 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : @pl doesn't understand list comprehensions < 1311517144 511543 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see... < 1311517148 336648 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@. pl undo (\y -> [fracf $ (xCenter+x) :+ (yCenter+y) | x <- range]) < 1311517148 408903 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(range >>=) . flip flip [] . (((:) . fracf) .) . flip ((:+) . (xCenter +)) . (yCenter +) < 1311517999 410562 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, how cute. < 1311518017 552277 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :$pl \x -> [y + 1 | y <- x] < 1311518020 874504 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> [y + 1 | y <- x] < 1311518020 927182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :return . (y +) . ((1 | y) <-) < 1311518036 999944 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee hee. < 1311518133 878782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1311518206 277165 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1311518727 42832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the? < 1311518730 881375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : @pl \x -> [y + 1 | y <- x] < 1311518731 55991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : return . (y +) . ((1 | y) <-) < 1311518734 243538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1311518743 752063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<-) < 1311518745 772091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `<-' < 1311518749 897580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1311518753 723406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1311518755 619601 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2011-07-24 17:18:47 ( Deewiant) @pl doesn't understand list comprehensions < 1311518762 160271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, *oh* hah < 1311518774 253642 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@. pl undo \x -> [y + 1 | y <- x] < 1311518774 305987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((1 +) `fmap`) < 1311518784 30656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t undo < 1311518784 743655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `undo' < 1311518790 413902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where is undo from? < 1311518795 620642 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help undo < 1311518795 672869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :undo < 1311518795 673049 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translate do notation to Monad operators. < 1311518801 612370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311519176 306188 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311519192 449330 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-189-196.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311520012 915789 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I wonder if you were talking about the inflection classes of nominals, how cute < 1311521268 149638 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa_: you can determine that with figuratively absolute certainty. < 1311521535 39954 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldll1 (`f`) [a,b,c] < 1311521535 718901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1311521550 524678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :blasphemy! < 1311521577 556976 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`f`) would be equivalent to (f) < 1311521648 228473 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I was seeing if it worked. < 1311522083 590185 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Android headset:nä < 1311522809 735424 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: For a fixed arity, I suppose you can always work around the lack of (`f`) with (\x y -> (x`f`y)). Especially if you choose suitably easily overlookable Unicode characters for x and y. (\ו י -> (ו`f`י)) maybe? < 1311522866 425574 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that renders real bad in XChat. Must be the right-to-leftness of the Hebrew letters. < 1311522886 576487 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make it \x -> (x`f`) and it'll work for any arity < 1311522898 149068 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, good. < 1311522924 91507 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x y -> (x`f`y) would work for any arity >= 2) < 1311522934 146170 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roight. < 1311523054 879048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since it no longer needs whitespace to separete x and y, (\י->(י`f`)) then. Which XChat renders so that it looks, approximating the Hebrew "yod" with ', as (\')<-'`f`)) -- it seems to do the text in-between those things as right-to-left. < 1311523216 121124 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what do you mean work around the lack of (`f`)? < 1311523237 504534 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... I don't see a need really. I just wondered if it was possible. It doesn't need a work around because f is the work around. < 1311523238 324790 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's "f", I supposed you must have some reason to complicate it. < 1311523257 636511 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I love needless complication. :) < 1311523280 345679 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. And "f" is not a proper workaround for complicating "f". (Unless you're being very gracious.) < 1311523312 93704 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix id < 1311523315 675760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311523317 653677 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id < 1311523318 399858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1311524448 459672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, in order to put a Palm phone into developer mode, you enter the Konami code < 1311524789 741259 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi NICK :atehwa < 1311525039 636211 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4db40b7a.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311526192 658974 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311526392 124641 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all of the trendy tech scenesters would be like "everybody trendy already knows about that." < 1311526399 563050 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :techsters? < 1311526410 714475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1311526415 875271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you put -ster on the end of anything to make it sound condescending? < 1311526458 566939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1311526544 573939 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :numberster < 1311526555 616613 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :graph rewritester < 1311526589 483784 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed pointster < 1311526615 697358 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (++ "ster") $ (`replicateM` ['a'..'z']) >>= [1..] < 1311526616 478747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The section ``Control.Monad.replicateM` < 1311526616 592028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ['a' .. 'z']' takes o... < 1311526633 892939 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (++ "ster") $ (`replicateM` ['a'..'z']) =<< [1..] < 1311526635 518926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["aster","bster","cster","dster","ester","fster","gster","hster","ister","j... < 1311526643 141665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay so maybe not everything... < 1311526643 701456 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tadaa < 1311526667 850222 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ester = "lousy e" < 1311526688 425716 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a g-ster actually sounds like a somewhat cool person. < 1311526691 671881 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not-to-be-taken-for-serious e" < 1311526738 365805 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gster sounds like something people would call a somewhat cool person but is actually in reality ridiculous < 1311529386 229966 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-20.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311530282 560308 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311530781 17042 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311531708 578233 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311531833 719535 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM PC (Model 5150) Guide to Operations, Part 1 of 2 http://www.retroarchive.org/dos/docs/pc_op_guide1.pdf < 1311533706 828144 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311533919 402515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1311534273 145655 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311534540 501983 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311535406 628510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311535888 733247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :once again, everyone who has said anything interesting in the logs is gone now :( < 1311535952 146752 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately there is lambdabot and messages. < 1311536190 706601 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311536456 859586 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311536606 183925 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311536816 475822 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was discussing with a coworker about number theory and programming, and the subject of whether loops or number theoretic algorithms are faster, in terms of processor instructions. For a toy example, consider summing the first 1 million digits. < 1311536850 33485 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]that sentence was horribly structured < 1311536922 599244 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was discussing number theory and programming with a coworker, and the subject of whether loops or number theoretic algorithms were faster (in terms of processor instructions) came up. For a toy example, consider summing the first 1 million digits. < 1311536926 601964 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better < 1311537094 314037 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts on the matter? < 1311537333 906100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but that is not as fun :( < 1311537425 170816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: well i would be really surprised if a loop for that were faster than calculating 1000000*1000001/2 on any realistic hardware < 1311537461 749943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait you said digits not numbers. what do you mean by that... < 1311537474 913612 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]numbers < 1311537478 458058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311537479 194093 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bad < 1311537529 750458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there must be less skewed examples... < 1311537570 341337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how bubble sort is faster than quicksort if the list/array is small enough < 1311537626 13549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you were one of those who said something interesting < 1311537627 236281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I meant was the reason for the toroidal TV screen "being stupid"? < 1311537628 281513 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to find some definitive source on how multiplication is done at the processor level, but no one seems to agree (or everyone who does is several decades out of date) < 1311537646 4266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that unreasonable when you think of how scan lines work < 1311537663 412584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _is_ very close to a toroidal setup < 1311537671 868981 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's unreasonable when you consider how watching TV works :D < 1311537702 453494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: i understand that modern processors use a huge circuit to do multiplication _very_ fast < 1311537735 975959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while e.g. the old 6502/10's had no multiplication instruction and you needed to use shift/addition to write it < 1311537745 547571 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my understanding, too, but they do it with (essentially) a huge number of partial products and additions < 1311537764 596372 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which still boils down to shift/add < 1311537795 411264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... it is much faster < 1311537807 254282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's parallelized, not a loop < 1311537845 734057 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, faster in terms of actually getting done < 1311537849 158626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think ais523 is the right person to ask about this < 1311537852 705441 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the sense of number of instructions < 1311537857 121992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what? < 1311537872 923499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :about how multiplication is done in modern processors < 1311537888 44805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure what sort of multiplier they use, there are several plausible sorts < 1311537916 153987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but i assume you can explain how it's better than a shift/add loop < 1311537930 300279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, sometimes it is a shift-add loop < 1311537935 4907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but implementing it in hardware makes it much faster < 1311537951 936763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311537998 42386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway even a shift/add loop should be faster than directly adding 1..1000000 in a loop < 1311538072 605872 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, ais523, does an addition loop use more instructions than a multiplication? I suppose that's the basic question < 1311538097 923724 :CakeProphet!~adam@24.75.169.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311538097 976658 :CakeProphet!~adam@24.75.169.79 QUIT :Changing host < 1311538097 976789 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311538106 57767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: the number of instructions is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to speed < 1311538109 737040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all instructions are equal < 1311538112 502807 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not about speed < 1311538131 868339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's about program length, you'd just use the processor's multiply instruction < 1311538138 62069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's nice and short compared to a loop < 1311538140 335861 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not about length < 1311538145 726525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it about, then? < 1311538146 36159 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about what the computer's doing < 1311538156 670173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you write a*b in a program, or whatever? < 1311538168 678496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles it into the processor's multiply, which puts it into a dedicated multiply circuit < 1311538189 455179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSPs normally have very fast multiply circuits that take up a lot of silicon space, because doing lots of multiplications quickly is their main purpose for existence < 1311538196 829910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: are you actually present? < 1311538197 639996 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've read < 1311538202 914917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular processors, even if it takes 10 times as long as any other instruction, it's still going to be gine < 1311538205 477829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fine < 1311538206 211150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean hi) < 1311538251 904592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not. < 1311538287 605419 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not really concerned about how long it takes. My only real question is "Are there fewer processor instructions in an additive loop or a multiplicative algorithm?" < 1311538306 381485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're concerned about instruction /count/? < 1311538309 531938 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1311538319 751328 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally irrelevant to anything meaningful < 1311538323 276141 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a curiosity < 1311538324 320055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a multiplication and addition are both one instruction (imul and add, respectively) < 1311538330 378425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :add takes fewer bytes to represent in x86, at least < 1311538418 495131 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction count is a very weird thing to ask about, though. < 1311538422 466073 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I'm following you correctly, adding the numbers 1..1000 in an additive loop uses at least 1000 instructions (though likely more), and (1000*1001)/2 uses approximately 3? < 1311538429 326417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311538436 686649 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know. It's just what the discussion turned to. < 1311538448 351046 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction count means absolutely, positively *nothing* on modern CPUs, after all. < 1311538456 601527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's actually performed instructions, not source size... < 1311538472 836563 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Awesome, then number theory and I won that discussion after all :D < 1311538480 867936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't believe the question either, that's why it took so long for me to work out what NihilistDandy meant < 1311538481 938339 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Still bloody weird. But at least you realise it's pointless. :) < 1311538495 331916 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311538496 284609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great thing about the channel, though, is that you get an answer even if people don't understand why the question < 1311538509 924310 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too #esoteric for #esoteric :D < 1311538510 937150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whence bathyspheres? < 1311538519 836205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in most channels, you get told off for asking questions like that < 1311538543 951890 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that way < 1311538550 890043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does anyone know if Debian keep old versions of things around in repositories? < 1311538556 449274 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, very few channels have the mindset of "Yeah, that person may just like asking stupid questions." < 1311538558 327438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1311538564 273187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if a security bug is fixed, can you grab the version pre-fix from anywhere? < 1311538565 468516 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They don't really do that *much*. < 1311538570 248366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1311538576 203198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about md5/sha1 hashes? < 1311538590 593329 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. < 1311538598 730375 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At least not in the same places, because if you try to install things without updating your copy of the indices, you tend to get 404 errors relatively soon. < 1311538603 694090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that if someone gives you a library and says "this is version 3.4.foo of bar from Debian", you can verify that they're telling the truth and haven't given you a malicious executable < 1311538606 417204 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, snapshot.debian.org < 1311538635 854519 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They store all old package versions. < 1311538642 561085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, that's exactly what I wanted < 1311538643 718995 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, from 2005 to present. < 1311538683 273 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :（╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ < 1311538788 629957 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The hashes of binary packages are also mentioned in the "accepted X" emails sent on the foo-changes@ mailing lists, which are archived. Not sure if there's an easy way to navigate those, though, since packages.qa.debian.org just links to the newest twenty or so. < 1311538831 205690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, don't click this until you read new Homestuck update, but I just want to say I'm lolling at http://bit.ly/nJn669 < 1311538843 765022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder who actually gets paid for .ly domains now... < 1311538902 35470 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libya Telecom & Technology. < 1311538919 243396 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they *probably* aren't running too well. < 1311538946 235657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they even have standing offices anymore < 1311538976 453562 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fucked is Tripoli, anyways? < 1311539010 294624 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, 15 or 20 on a scale from 1 to 10? < 1311539037 966917 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like B---------------O----------------D this fucked < 1311539048 971019 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, quite < 1311539056 271397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say 9 as a wild guess. although presumably that mostly applies to government buildings... < 1311539060 471488 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only halfway there < 1311539207 77541 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: LT&T is pretty much a government thing. < 1311539249 157869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least their website is up < 1311539256 653279 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's ran by the son of al-Gaddafi, so... < 1311539279 885823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_the_? he has at least a handful and some are dead. < 1311539291 104525 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the/a/ < 1311539296 504820 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE < 1311539329 184717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it may be just one dead so far, i haven't paid attention < 1311539582 960118 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google's traffic report seems to suggest there's actually a bit more interweb traffic out of Libya after about mid-July; the curve's been pretty flat since beginning of March: http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/traffic/?r=LY&l=EVERYTHING&csd=1296645717109&ced=1311539850000 < 1311539593 788236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : @pl \l1 l2 a b -> (l1 a) == (l2 b) < 1311539596 157643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1311539645 58499 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-20.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: over and out < 1311539687 631517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry (==) . (?l1 *** ?l2) < 1311539688 279510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (a1 :: * -> * -> *) b b'. (Eq a, ?l1::a1 b a, ?l2::a1 b' a, Arrow a1, Functor (a1 (b, b'))) => a1 (b, b') Bool < 1311539698 948632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :god have mercy < 1311539717 247091 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God is dead < 1311539778 636338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry (uncurry (==) . uncurry (***)) < 1311539779 313726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `b -> c' against inferred type `Bool' < 1311539779 384651 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `uncurry (==)' < 1311539779 437195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `uncurry', namely < 1311539781 815830 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311539825 589222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry ((uncurry (==) .) . uncurry (***)) < 1311539826 315639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b b' c'. (Eq c') => ((b -> c', b' -> c'), (b, b')) -> Bool < 1311539846 300747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1311539851 268579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry ((uncurry (==) .) . uncurry (***)) < 1311539851 909741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b b' c'. (Eq c', Functor (a (b, b')), Arrow a) => a b c' -> a b' c' -> a (b, b') Bool < 1311539876 251761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry ((uncurry (==) Prelude..) . uncurry (***)) < 1311539876 919150 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b b' c'. (Eq c') => (b -> c') -> (b' -> c') -> (b, b') -> Bool < 1311539898 232036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311539955 199925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry (curry . (uncurry (==) Prelude..) . uncurry (***)) < 1311539955 770775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b b' c'. (Eq c') => (b -> c') -> (b' -> c') -> b -> b' -> Bool < 1311539959 866827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1311539965 68386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: ^ < 1311539989 859592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@host-92-26-107-111.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311539990 149529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@host-92-26-107-111.as13285.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311539990 202563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311539999 685125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it may not be an improvement over the flips < 1311540324 434949 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wondermark.com/740/ < 1311540401 425950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl liftM < 1311540401 478351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap < 1311540406 19506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1311540421 915156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (return.) . (flip (>>=)) < 1311540422 604696 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) (m1 :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m, Monad m1) => (a -> m1 b) -> m1 a -> m (m1 b) < 1311540426 764608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, that's backwards < 1311540428 724816 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@t liftM < 1311540428 777728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v < 1311540431 964001 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type liftM < 1311540432 668214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a1 r (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a1 -> r) -> m a1 -> m r < 1311540436 190771 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type fmap < 1311540436 889275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1311540440 28178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (flip (>>=)) . (return.) < 1311540440 657098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1311540443 121837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1311540453 146945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : @src seq < 1311540457 853705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worked that out last night, and it increased my understanding of monads somewhat < 1311540463 736787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src fmap < 1311540463 807718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Your mind just hasn't been the same since the electro-shock, has it? < 1311540474 267170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src liftM < 1311540474 319830 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM f m1 = do { x1 <- m1; return (f x1) } < 1311540481 2781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer my definition < 1311540491 939888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq cannot be defined in haskell, except for specific datatypes, and not at all e.g. for functions. < 1311540537 647663 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undo do { x1 <- m1; return (f x1) } < 1311540537 700744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :m1 >>= \ x1 -> return (f x1) < 1311540546 605162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl m1 >>= \ x1 -> return (f x1) < 1311540546 657418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f `fmap` m1 < 1311540552 18091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311540559 74105 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power of Caleskell. < 1311540575 479826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think @pl is the same as caleskell < 1311540607 855834 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311540608 296558 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the `fmap` there was, though. < 1311540618 411125 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In normal Haskell, that'd have a different type. < 1311540639 751718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, @pl just doesn't distinguish liftM from fmap < 1311540649 909389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any reasonably Monad should have them equal < 1311540655 435251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*le < 1311540661 580167 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\a b c -> a c (b c)) < 1311540661 632851 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap < 1311540688 998897 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ap < 1311540689 65058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap = liftM2 id < 1311540851 48263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311540983 780592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet: For a fixed arity, I suppose you can always work around the lack of (`f`) with (\x y -> (x`f`y)). Especially if you choose suitably easily overlookable Unicode characters for x and y. (\ו י -> (ו`f`י)) maybe? < 1311541005 22457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um (`f`) _would_ be equivalent to (f) if it worked < 1311541022 340693 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but it doesn't. < 1311541038 213298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can work around it by simply saying (f) :P < 1311541062 427427 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "point" (I use the word very loosely) was to say "f" in a more complicated way. < 1311541067 693888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1311541103 710581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however (\x y -> (x`f`y)) is _not_ quite the same as f, if f is not a two-argument functino < 1311541108 903880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ion < 1311541120 919037 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's why it's just a workaround. < 1311541145 519590 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :functinos, the elementary particles of functional programming < 1311541148 474098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An imperfect one, that is. < 1311541200 842132 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant gave a slightly better one a bit later. < 1311541333 287616 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Quite impressive, but really no improvement over the flips. < 1311541405 572621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly so < 1311541448 196370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry(***) < 1311541448 959206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c b' c'. (Arrow a) => (a b c, a b' c') -> a (b, b') (c, c') < 1311542336 40459 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311542868 815099 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311544057 395476 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-233.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311545088 36074 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311545553 932031 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311545695 534618 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311545824 43416 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Doctor Who WMG: < 1311545825 961291 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of the Characters is a Time... oh, wait. < 1311545826 13053 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311546012 505088 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/DoctorWho I'm loving this < 1311546025 311983 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is WMG? < 1311546034 228163 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wild Mass Guessing < 1311546045 259160 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One theme in WMG pages is that one of the characters is a Time Lord < 1311546056 237901 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in Doctor Who, well... < 1311546067 979325 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGEO IS A TIME LORD < 1311546087 100687 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favorite WMG was "The Doctor is *not* a Time Lord" < 1311546460 63083 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Doctor is a fruit fly" this one rings true to me < 1311546557 143887 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at ZPAQ and it seems to contain many redundant opcodes. < 1311546636 990764 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311546656 434320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opcodes 4, 136, and 196 are all equivalent. < 1311546664 992518 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opcode 64 is useless. < 1311546690 797128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opcodes 224 and 232 are equivalent. < 1311547414 256582 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: cookin' < 1311547516 375619 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311547976 614347 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311548194 806832 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:41:41: I'm doing the Mandelbrot set with this: length $ takeWhile ((<2) . magnitude) $ take maxIters $ iterate step $ 0.0 :+ 0.0 < 1311548198 971495 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use . instead of chained dollars < 1311548199 494849 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1311548206 335032 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan :P < 1311548210 377337 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ate some mandelbrot today < 1311548224 645961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'day < 1311548875 491862 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think opcode 208 seems also equivalent to opcode 4 < 1311548905 583769 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as opcode 160 < 1311548951 120570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait... opcode 208 isn't. < 1311549046 310373 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But opcode 168 is the same as opcode 64, and opcode 176 is the same as opcode 4. < 1311549257 907736 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think opcode 160 might result in undefined behavior in some implementations if A is zero < 1311549573 286912 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:50:37: http://pastebin.com/PXcS0k5G < is my code horrible? < 1311549581 536875 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: don't use exception handling to handle your failed pattern match. < 1311549584 546788 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's super gross < 1311549614 248793 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: also, add top-level type signatures, and ditch parseInt/parseDouble, they're just kludges for not declaring your types. < 1311549665 368794 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:09:45: well -O2 is effective, iirc -O3 sometimes gets worse, and i don't think there's a difference beyond that < 1311549674 969995 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cabal does -O by default because -O[two] is usually wasteful < 1311549677 638514 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nowadays) < 1311549760 650995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i corrected myself after actually looking at the manual < 1311549770 633952 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:24:57: http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/ < 1311549770 817203 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:25:52: Not funny. < 1311549770 870442 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:25:52: =p < 1311549770 870607 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ancient but mostly way too easy < 1311549794 381250 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:34:56: honestly are there programmers out there who think abstraction is in general bad? < 1311549794 566733 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, or more generally manual abstraction < 1311549814 14124 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some work on basically making copy-and-paste "safe", by the logic that we all do it anyway < 1311549819 485636 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and abstract automatically like that < 1311549825 617349 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtext is IIRC based around that in part < 1311549856 707983 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work < 1311549911 310045 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: by making changes of copied stuff turn into parameters, presumably < 1311549914 660132 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, essentially < 1311549988 508218 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311550019 647896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if he's not to use exception handling he'd have to use reads, which is rather more awkward there. < 1311550040 669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so define a helper < 1311550046 277576 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (Read a) => String -> Maybe a < 1311550046 596602 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.CGI.Protocol maybeRead :: Read a => String -> Maybe a < 1311550046 667944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.CGI readCookie :: (Read a, MonadCGI m) => String -> m (Maybe a) < 1311550046 720591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.CGI readInput :: (Read a, MonadCGI m) => String -> m (Maybe a) < 1311550051 459443 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Network.CGI.Protocol maybeRead :: Read a => String -> Maybe a < 1311550052 928142 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on < 1311550074 609672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect maybeRead is what you mean < 1311550075 498782 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:50:56: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ixkql/how_to_make_a_compiler_1000_times_faster/c27guh6 I... uh... < 1311550075 794639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see response < 1311550084 199426 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but the module :P < 1311550125 946368 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:05:56: http://sds.podval.org/ocaml-sucks.html is it just me or does this article have a mix of stupidity and insight? < 1311550126 128520 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at this guy's homepage when i saw this and started ignoring him after seeing "support Israel's right to self-defense!" and a link to esr's Anti-Idiotarian Manifesto < 1311550140 911600 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... that article on ocaml is pretty reasonable. < 1311550144 8537 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, did you see my earlier log ping of you? < 1311550150 665295 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311550164 737246 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:59:54: elliott, don't click this until you read new Homestuck update, but I just want to say I'm lolling at http://bit.ly/nJn669 < 1311550175 119049 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i raged when i saw the first line with multiple commas about half-way through < 1311550179 631990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i was laughing too hard to rage < 1311550260 561400 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it wasn't earlier. < 1311550279 682424 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:23:53: and they have the audacity to make claims on the computational power of the known universe < 1311550288 580636 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it is not audacity to make predictions based on available evidence. < 1311550315 246519 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they realize their own axioms are all fragile < 1311550332 527164 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "fragile axiom" even mean? < 1311550343 898188 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that it will eventually break < 1311550357 756180 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you've stopped making sense so i can't respond to that. < 1311550360 776131 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure, you could question whether some math equations actually do apply to the real world, but axioms are just... < 1311550384 876516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they _do_ know that, with the whole quantum mechanics vs. general relativity inconsistency < 1311550402 784992 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess it is possible to eventually discover that commonly used axioms lead to a contradiction < 1311550430 491891 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no end to it.. every last axiom will probably get contradicted given sufficient "time" < 1311550444 45048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Read a => String -> a < 1311550444 188999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude read :: Read a => String -> a < 1311550444 261279 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Read read :: Read a => String -> a < 1311550444 333980 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude readIO :: Read a => String -> IO a < 1311550454 56360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1311550461 547439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Read a => String -> m a < 1311550461 764266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude readIO :: Read a => String -> IO a < 1311550461 816926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO readIO :: Read a => String -> IO a < 1311550461 817091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.CGI.Protocol maybeRead :: Read a => String -> Maybe a < 1311550473 808722 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: And you have the audacity to make claims about the strength of every axiom? < 1311550488 675290 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as long as they realize their hypocrisy is fragile" < 1311550493 370759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm readIO could actually be used but it would be almost using exception handling :P < 1311550505 294376 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least _they_ are experts in their field... < 1311550518 960659 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would involve using exception handling < 1311550526 100910 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle IO a -> IO (Maybe a) < 1311550526 248070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Timeout timeout :: Int -> IO a -> IO (Maybe a) < 1311550526 321546 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative optional :: Alternative f => f a -> f (Maybe a) < 1311550526 375061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Just :: a -> Maybe a < 1311550532 829684 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'm not actually helping anyone with my comments < 1311550544 398521 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a heckler < 1311550576 723547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point was not a personal one < 1311550644 430881 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every atheist would pretty much say that theologians are .. incorrect (well, every atheist who thinks about it. < 1311550646 248311 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :we tend to claim that the one sure thing is death.. but we don't even know what that consists in.. death remains undefined < 1311550658 845670 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I still have reservations about saying "every atheist", but I think it makes sense here < 1311550670 199878 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for some specific definition of theology. < 1311550679 544770 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not impossible to make valid claims about beliefs and belief systems < 1311550699 608872 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think theology is just people saying "christianity is true" all day... well, lol @ you? < 1311550719 417606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: "we" < 1311550725 499002 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only time I ever hear that is coupled jokingly with "taxes" < 1311550740 160367 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think whats happening is that i have left a chatroom full of people always trying to ram a belief down my throat of a spiritual nature, to a room full of computer scientists who can actually relax < 1311550748 388061 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we know what death consists of, i.e. we know generally what the process of death involves < 1311550759 353573 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, oh, I was considering theology to be more of an assumption that the underlying belief is true. Or at least contain such an assumption. Rather than things of the form "Christianity says this, Judaism says this" etc < 1311550765 814463 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people attach additional spiritual elements to that moment, but that's separate from what "death" actually involves as far as our universe is concerned < 1311550767 196680 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still defensive. < 1311550786 483596 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, sure, it could take that form? But then it just has an implicit "If [belief] is true, then...". < 1311550806 523061 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, ok < 1311550837 449946 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about theology, but it seems that the only way it could consist entirely of false statements was if it was literally a party game involving saying that your religion is true < 1311550845 729065 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oblig.: And that's called church < 1311550875 273549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i suspect optional may actual do the right thing, assuming IO has the Alternative instance i expect < 1311550883 47935 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was in a chatroom with a bunch of people who hated everyone < 1311550900 429239 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> optional (read ")" :: Int) < 1311550901 38769 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `f a' < 1311550901 110827 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1311550909 309123 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> optional (read ")" :: Int) :: IO (Maybe Int) < 1311550909 919794 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.IO GHC.Types.Int' < 1311550909 972005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against i... < 1311550911 820433 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grumble
< 1311550923 887130 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: no, we just hate Vorpal and cheater_ here ;-) < 1311550926 423580 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?ty optional (read ")" :: Int) :: IO (Maybe Int) < 1311550927 131809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `IO Int' against inferred type `Int' < 1311550927 202892 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `optional', namely `(read ")" :: Int)' < 1311550927 255281 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: optional (read ")" :: Int) :: IO (Maybe Int) < 1311550933 976101 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311550943 564997 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle optional < 1311550943 637416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative optional :: Alternative f => f a -> f (Maybe a) < 1311550943 712261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Combinator optional :: Stream s m t => ParsecT s u m a -> ParsecT s u m () < 1311550943 764644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP optional :: ReadP a -> ReadP () < 1311550952 529801 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't know if it has one < 1311550975 860148 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1311550977 888653 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a return < 1311550983 762440 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IIRC that catching errors in IO doesn't catch pure errors < 1311550995 492859 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Control.Applicative Control.Exception> optional (evaluate (read ")") :: IO Int) < 1311550995 637663 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:1: < 1311550995 690705 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Alternative IO) < 1311551045 443512 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Alexanderdna&curid=4076&diff=24010&oldid=24004 < 1311551049 791741 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1311551057 14408 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can i say grml is that o.k. < 1311551071 4104 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but among those hateful people i did find one guy who started to teach me actual things < 1311551173 5120 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confused about the truth of axioms. < 1311551194 668744 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly they work. < 1311551224 65409 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers 0,1,2,3,4,5 can be expected to hold firm for millions of years < 1311551232 686289 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mzero :: IO () < 1311551233 349497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for Control.Monad.MonadPlus GHC.Types.IO < 1311551233 401884 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising f... < 1311551234 383112 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :billions etc < 1311551237 57219 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: argh < 1311551243 726012 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (there is: < 1311551246 11225 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadPlus m => Alternative (WrappedMonad m) < 1311551246 155380 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ArrowZero a, ArrowPlus a) => Alternative (WrappedArrow a b)) < 1311551296 330251 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the question then is can the countability of things dissapear ever? or rather... can the potential of someone to exist who can count ever dissapear? < 1311551310 472931 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :can any potential ever dissapear? < 1311551341 11970 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is the substance of which potentials are made :-? < 1311551370 895032 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does there have to be a substance < 1311551376 199014 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311551450 252440 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, then the question probably becomes, what are the dependant factors of potential < 1311551482 984657 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, what is potential dependant upon < 1311551498 350484 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'd rather make a coffee than worry about that right now < 1311551583 868447 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm try :: Exception e => IO a -> IO (Either e a) < 1311551603 767493 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle \a b -> catch a (const b) < 1311551603 820178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error: < 1311551603 872605 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : --count=20 "\a b -> catch a (const b)" < 1311551603 872796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1311551607 448095 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b -> catch a (const b) < 1311551607 500786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. const) . catch < 1311551609 301092 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1311551612 653786 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \b -> catch a (const b) < 1311551612 706308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :catch a . const < 1311551622 569185 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Alternative IO where < 1311551622 674686 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : empty = ioError (userError "empty") < 1311551622 726674 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (a <|> b = try a (const b) < 1311551623 242757 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1311551626 241696 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm without paren < 1311551655 476692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] to a room full of computer scientists who can actually relax <-- you _do_ realize there are a considerable number of sometimes a bit insistent atheists in here, right? < 1311551777 143569 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :atheism means an army without a leader :D < 1311551786 97062 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :means peace? maybe :P < 1311551807 55351 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Richard Dawkins perhaps. < 1311551815 573257 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :richard dawkins is an asshole < 1311551830 599337 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone noticed he looks like Emma Watson < 1311551834 745699 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does christianity have a leader? buddhism? < 1311551835 515913 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1311551859 500098 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/6/128677918460759115.jpg < 1311551869 474696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a percieved god is a leader < 1311551870 723640 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right that < 1311551887 769791 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: plenty of buddhist sects are atheistic (in the technical sense) < 1311551907 952017 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya.. the room i was in was full of buddhists.. but that doesn't make me a buddhist. i was more a spectator < 1311551918 627594 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo goes to #jesus < 1311551921 83383 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least he used to < 1311551926 120230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : > optional (read ")" :: Int) <-- sheesh i meant with readIO duh < 1311551932 965825 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes totaly a christan < 1311551937 193345 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm more level headed than most of them < 1311551940 996223 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: o irte < 1311551953 11449 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not most of them < 1311551962 727979 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but teres a few ya see who are just completely nuts < 1311552060 977036 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone points out that emma watson pic probably photoshopped < 1311552069 982245 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it obvious < 1311552236 325386 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conclusion i have reached is that religions can't make any claims which are beyond question and still have anything to do with them being religions < 1311552242 82162 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of a few more things about the algorithm I was having problems with recently. < 1311552274 210186 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, to 'force' a conversion you have to distort the truth somehow < 1311552305 866929 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have "A[B]C", then maybe you can deal with "AB" and "AC" separately and then figure out if there is combined way of results like that < 1311552335 974001 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the result of "A" must agree in the final output < 1311552381 252261 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: some people are gullible or think badly < 1311552424 544947 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yup.. in addition, many people are manipulative and opportunistic < 1311552440 406649 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have "YZ" but "Y" and "Z" has no words shared in them (such as "-a-a-a-a-a-b-b-b-b-b-a-a-c-c-c-c-c-d-d-d-d-d-c-c-c") then you can treat them separately; I don't know if this helps though. < 1311552465 153419 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: parents < 1311552491 247358 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311552525 266647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: this reminds me of a comment i found on godel's lost letter today: "Buddhism discourages insistence (執著). A common pitfall is to insist on being non-insist." < 1311552534 103563 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a word that can only appear once, then possibly it can be ignored. < 1311552556 949731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact i thought of you while reading it, since i had the impression you were something like a buddhist) < 1311552585 179091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have read something like that. < 1311552618 130251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/self-defeating-sentences/#comment-12512) < 1311552749 279479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem with dealing with AB and AC separately is that the combined cost is essentially A+B+C, meaning that the optimal choice for A might be different in AB, AC and A[B]C < 1311552763 767925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of subset sum and that kind of problem < 1311552808 701810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might lead to a way of proving it NP-complete, perhaps < 1311552818 142282 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes now I can see that too. What is subset sum and that kind of problem? < 1311552857 112354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe hamiltonian circuit stuff as well < 1311552871 431226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any NP-complete problem which requires summing things, i guess < 1311552887 206188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait not hamiltonian < 1311552892 13689 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is hamiltonian circuit stuff? I don't know much about these kind of things. I do not have much experience with it. < 1311552892 86460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :traveling salesman < 1311552901 276604 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i hanged out with them.. i never admitted to being one though < 1311552901 952878 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311552908 367948 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(online) < 1311552924 34484 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can look in Wikipedia some things < 1311552943 502739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: traveling salesman is the problem where you have a map (really graph) with distances between "cities" and you want to find the shortest path which passes through all of them < 1311552948 628672 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i met this one buddhist who was actually quite wise.. < 1311553019 374739 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned to approach buddhism with a wikipedia mindset. < 1311553030 323753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes the traveling salesman is one I have heard of, and yes I know what that is. (I don't know much else about it, except that one cover of mathNEWS joked about finding a O(1) solution (which is, shooting them).) < 1311553044 903310 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking each piece of "text" which comes to me and wondering what it's source is. < 1311553099 170662 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok as an example.. as an example < 1311553109 505931 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the bible.. there is no abstract bible. < 1311553115 910022 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :only instances called bibles < 1311553116 740853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh i realized something, it is not fixed which names have to printed inside each [ ] is it. so you can move printing things across the brackets... < 1311553122 315871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to be < 1311553136 292655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it even more complicated < 1311553139 399696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :each bible was published somewhere.. edited by someone.. liable to errors by that publisher and that editor < 1311553149 992187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Moving things across brackets is not allowed. < 1311553191 188884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless it is only temporary in order to help with the algorithm) < 1311553241 777318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1311553258 993683 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I gradually start to see things this way I started gradually dismissing buddhism etc. attacking it with loud rants. < 1311553281 275301 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it doesn't look to be the same problem as hamiltonian or traveling salesmen, I don't know whether there can be similar ideas or not. < 1311553291 719584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then slowly i started to see that some of the people i thought were friends there were actually just manipulative like rotten apples. < 1311553293 345174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes iirc buddhism has some trouble tracing back its sources < 1311553313 712270 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hehe. indeed < 1311553333 351807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :islam tried very hard to avoid that, by getting things written down as soon as possible. but of course you still have to believe in muhammed for it. < 1311553360 800924 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to just force everything to follow the rules of logic < 1311553384 616311 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called science < 1311553395 554516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think muhammed criticized older religions for being unreliable in that way, so his followers had particular reason) < 1311553421 511664 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol muhammad was all "let's make this one LAST, guys" < 1311553428 280397 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311553487 657856 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :when arguing iwth muslims my attack tends to be of the form "suppose that allah lied to the prophet, or mixed truths with lies" < 1311553522 298518 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they tend to base their case on how the quran contains truths < 1311553538 886817 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't allah lie as a rule < 1311553541 23420 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lie i mean < 1311553599 719673 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its also worth mentioning that apparently the name means "true god" and yet it is never translated as such which is curious < 1311553621 710226 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im sure theres some psychological tactic to giving him 100 names < 1311553664 379812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes iirc buddhism has some trouble tracing back its sources <-- on the other hand, Buddhism iirc clearly states that the stories are based on what they heard for a few generations. < 1311553682 567227 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but religions as we see them today are set up like puzzles for the houdini to wrestle his way out of < 1311553693 797087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so they kind of avoid the problem by explicitly stating that it may or may not be a perfect account < 1311553708 425352 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a perfect account :D < 1311553722 80806 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :those who say it is are naive < 1311553724 258841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, exactly. And it openly admits it < 1311553729 206615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, that is my point < 1311553742 852661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there other Wikipedia articles that have things that can have some things related to my problem? < 1311553808 12464 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: yeah... but then... you come at buddhism thinking, well is there anything of value in this if i try to have a mindset of seeking truths rather than trying to abide by some community's sense of oblivion < 1311553829 359968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, hm? I'm not sure I understand what you meant there < 1311553846 135137 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. i'll try and use proper english < 1311553862 883652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, don't worry, it is not my native language anyway ;P < 1311553897 218370 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what i said makes no sense. that is true < 1311553911 25260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, not just me then < 1311553953 941596 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, there are certain properties common to religions.. a certain heavyness. creating obedience, followers, worshippers. blind faith < 1311553977 87221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, not blind faith when it comes to Buddhism though < 1311554003 275268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, I believe one of the books openly state that you should question everything. < 1311554006 686285 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311554010 447786 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even buddhism has this dominating presence < 1311554010 919415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes nobody ever corrupts religious texts < 1311554013 663554 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a monolith < 1311554027 692086 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this meme of buddhism being this perfect beautiful religion of peaceful nice people NOT LIKE THOSE OTHER RELIGIONS < 1311554031 109734 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very subtle aspect of religions, almost unspoken. < 1311554037 187175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a Buddhist myself, but... looking at the major religions it seems the one *least* out of touch with the modern world < 1311554050 198044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm perfectly happy to not believe in a religion. < 1311554064 560778 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1311554066 839735 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1311554070 881958 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ah ah h ha ha haha ha ha ha ha haha < 1311554076 818262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, come on, tell us what is so funny < 1311554079 884779 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1311554087 97250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NP-complete_problems unfortunately it has many non-existent links < 1311554110 408817 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a certain someone didnt fuck a certain meme when eliot told -- to < 1311554112 167081 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: the thing is though. simply including a few lines to say "you should question everything" doesn't entirely outweigh the reality-warping presence of a religion. < 1311554118 2237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I never claimed buddism was perfect... But as far as I know there has been no holy wars in its name for example. < 1311554122 345883 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hihgly funyn < 1311554142 623369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, that is true < 1311554143 452807 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a valuable statement yeah. < 1311554148 769933 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any holy wars in zoroastrianism's name < 1311554159 230897 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1311554160 989434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I never heard of that religion even < 1311554164 884764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311554171 469458 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh.. it's such a statement can be used to lure people into a sense of security < 1311554193 853636 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then it gets very confusing as to where to proceed next < 1311554247 400 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with religion, there is this tendancy to let the mind relax and just believe any nonsense as if under hypnosis < 1311554268 748735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, good point indeed. But why not follow the advice of putting the religion itself under scrutiny. If you feel you need a religion at all. < 1311554282 991951 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some do, some don't < 1311554300 897491 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones who do tend to be abrasive and cynical < 1311554308 484491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what? < 1311554309 63819 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good hearted < 1311554312 219460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :need religion? < 1311554320 896858 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some do put it under scrutiny < 1311554322 638824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311554333 320603 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bets Vorpal thinks buddhism doesn't have a hell either
< 1311554349 903397 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i abrasive and cynical < 1311554352 559715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, well, that depends on how you define it. < 1311554357 318953 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it does not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism) < 1311554361 366507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth. < 1311554407 877557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, sorry you misunderstood it. I was talking about the bit about "thinks" here. I never considered it in fact. I haven't studied the religion in depth, and never claimed to have done that. < 1311554418 959769 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311554444 602448 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: so that last point i was making... its really about learning in general.. < 1311554453 155553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, very deep < 1311554453 328145 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres that point where a religion can't tell you < 1311554458 143986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311554461 147458 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1311554463 990533 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the clincher < 1311554479 504126 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that whole idea about leading a horse to water < 1311554495 496497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, so pick up a few good suggestions about how to behave towards other people, and then ditch the rest of the religion :P < 1311554504 978304 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. its not like that < 1311554535 750738 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something which a person has to bring about on their own "like a horse drinking from the water" < 1311554553 799117 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. i don't know what it is < 1311554571 659160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, err what? < 1311554589 466277 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a person has an innate sense of how to seek truths < 1311554602 912556 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, a religion sort of constrains them < 1311554613 319656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, You completely lost me now < 1311554652 924868 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm.. i just lost me too < 1311554661 376821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand completely >:D < 1311554685 735260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, really? < 1311554719 580348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be exaggerating a bit < 1311554729 862703 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to deny everything in a religion is going too far < 1311554733 651490 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can contain truths < 1311554748 41170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes indeed. < 1311554751 63201 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to deny nothing in a religion is not going far enough < 1311554759 613147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1311554772 774678 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :buddhism also references "discrimination" < 1311554791 704256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, I was not suggesting you would explicitly deny it. Just leave it as "unknown" until further notice. Tri-state logic or something (okay, not quite that) < 1311554811 29326 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh.. basically........ < 1311554817 744076 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex_: why're you trying to exile coppro < 1311554823 393556 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is never any benefit from playing dumb when seeking truth < 1311554836 952228 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. pulling punches.. compromising.. making allowances.. < 1311554850 454146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :never say never < 1311554903 284930 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and religions expect you to just make all these compromises for the benefit of said religion < 1311554951 244278 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is you seeking truth.. < 1311554961 900723 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That list of NP-complete problems doesn't seem to help me much, especially since most are linked to nonexisting files < 1311554982 267871 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so.. when thinking about a religion a suggestion comes to you "I should deny the evidence before me because my religion says so" < 1311555085 262680 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no room for white lies in the search for truth < 1311555097 184810 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are other ways to change my problem to equivalent ones < 1311555214 764332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well the usual way to prove a problem NP-complete is to make a reduction from an NP-complete problem to it, similar to turing-completeness (except the reduction must be polynomial time, not just computable) < 1311555283 136409 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I used to wish there was an add-on term to TC that included being able to do things with the same time complexity, but then I realised that UTMs are slower than real-world computers < 1311555312 696350 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the correct model is; things with bignum addresses tend to have constant-time natural arithmetic, which is, of course, impossible < 1311555321 738669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, "of course") < 1311555352 253736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah anything finer grained than polynomial tends to depend on model < 1311555400 961172 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this leads up to asking if anything of value is left in buddhism if you approach it stoically, to never say "I should deny the evidence before me because my religion says so" < 1311555403 862921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course some models like minsky machines don't even get that) < 1311555428 942149 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to never say "I should subvert my search for truth for some other purpose" < 1311555433 297817 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which is upsetting... It seems "obvious" that you can't do addition in constant time, but explaining why tends to invoke a real-world-esque assembly language doing a bignum addition loop < 1311555435 133350 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ridiculous < 1311555441 451507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, I think I understand what you mean (a little bit, at least). I don't know if that can solve my problem, though, or how it can do so. < 1311555451 80503 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does our universe have these apparent time complexities? < 1311555468 928614 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to never say "I should subvert my search for truth because it makes buddhism look bad.. or it offends someone.. or it brings up things I can't face" < 1311555481 773637 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311555562 779093 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can always suppose you were the only human left alive.. and try and put yourself in those shoes and wonder which artifacts of religion would persist in your mind despite all the people who care being dead < 1311555570 103168 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, there's a Wikipedia article on [[Essjay controversy]] < 1311555580 18266 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311555610 629896 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Everything would persist in your mind, you can't "undo" growing up in an environment < 1311555617 352237 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1311555719 390647 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, why wouldn't it? < 1311555727 795953 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ? < 1311555735 723857 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott_> wow, there's a Wikipedia article on [[Essjay controversy]] < 1311555760 863814 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I forgot that it received significant media coverage < 1311555769 363198 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm unsure how objective Wikipedia can be on that topic :P < 1311555818 341370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's sad that the Code Generation section is entirely missing links < 1311555881 61767 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: link? < 1311555883 286582 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to context < 1311555916 218561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NP-complete_problems#Code_generation < 1311555945 107073 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can see that. < 1311555953 877612 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ugh :/ < 1311555954 21673 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't the only one. < 1311555967 550975 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reminding that i am not a buddhist before i continue) i think there is a certain error where people invent conceptions to explain religions. < 1311555971 204741 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wikipedia tends to lack a lot of in-depth material on CS, I notice; I suspect with a lot of other topics, too < 1311555971 984349 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other problems entirely missing links < 1311556014 19387 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as a god goes, if such a god exists you won't find him by trying to imagine a subset of the universe and giving it a booming voice < 1311556033 91463 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is a god, you don't have to imagine it right? its not about imagining < 1311556044 717541 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just an interpretation of what you see < 1311556051 303419 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: see pantheism < 1311556068 228416 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :god as the universe, right? < 1311556075 469162 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /msg < 1311556076 865950 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: yes < 1311556102 606750 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : suppose i suddenly found a box .. i could spend a week imagining what is inside it < 1311556128 963178 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good imagination < 1311556139 405346 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably get bored after a few minutes < 1311556143 152327 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then someone will force you to look inside and now the state is changed due to observing it < 1311556152 399653 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i could iterate through all the items in my bedroom < 1311556164 698476 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suppose that similar items existed in the box < 1311556226 635937 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so imagination is not a very accurate tool < 1311556265 340575 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've gone confusing again < 1311556279 788146 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well suppose the universe is the box < 1311556284 342108 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good supposition < 1311556296 670696 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason you can't see is because its too big instead of too small < 1311556331 137101 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you imagine a god it might be outside of this box, or inside of it, (or both, or neither... ) < 1311556340 28776 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it might be the box < 1311556361 302975 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe its an analogy which can't go far enough < 1311556367 72529 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a god................................ < 1311556378 892978 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My opponent's plan doesn't go too far enough! < 1311556391 564237 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations < 1311556414 277237 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your plan go too far enough < 1311556422 662773 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not entirely atheist.. im more agnostic i think < 1311556443 343847 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm scared enough i'll pray < 1311556516 435756 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then theres this idea of the economics of, on the one hand, a group proliferating the idea of a god, and on the other hand people deriving a sense of security from it < 1311556560 678349 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :praying in times of stress doesn't stop you being an atheist, it just means you're being irrational at the time (as far as an atheist is concerned) < 1311556564 875264 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a supply demand idea of: if people like me didn't thump bibles all day you wouldn't have any god to take refuge with in times of stress < 1311556572 403726 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be kind of cool if atheism made you ALL RATIONAL ALL THE TIME < 1311556593 125327 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, atheism is a bit of a religion like that.. < 1311556609 90121 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, it is? < 1311556609 181152 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sticking to a hard line for its own sake rather than examining evidence on it's own merits < 1311556628 937057 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that's a corruption of the term by idiots who ~just deconverted~ and religious people < 1311556645 256631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wonder if anyone else can help me, too, with my problem? < 1311556648 641394 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to trot out a cliché but accurate example, you wouldn't give credence to the idea of Russell's teapot, either < 1311556664 150622 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any "atheist" who thinks they can "disprove" god or that it's LOGICALLY false or whatever is just an idiot < 1311556680 512053 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, doesn't that depend on the definition of "god" in question? < 1311556715 192606 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea of prayer as being rational or irrational.. itself may be irrational :P < 1311556718 254005 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: plz no, stop before you show ur prolog < 1311556740 779412 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well from an atheist perspective, thinking prayer will produce results because a god will answer it is obviously irrational < 1311556763 912283 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prayer could produce the "result" of calming you down, even from an atheist perspective < 1311556817 365399 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh. that still requires suspension of disbelief, which stress happily provides < 1311556866 917266 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i see < 1311556882 903667 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :since prayer is worked by imagining a thing being prayed to < 1311556915 678534 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is no doubt due to millenia of this and that < 1311556956 899365 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day maybe the target of prayers won't be a self-interested entiyt < 1311556999 136778 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that < 1311557023 879159 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :prayer is a transitive verb < 1311557028 772496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well prayer like any ritual could act as stress relief. < 1311557036 154234 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not call it prayer if you don't expect it to "do" anything, though < 1311557041 649752 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more just... a ritual < 1311557049 449599 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean "one day maybe people will pray to something that isn't a self-interested entity" or "maybe one day the things to which people pray won't be so self-interested" < 1311557099 137480 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe one day prayer won't be a covert taboo topic evoking religious imagery < 1311557100 314639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311557106 275187 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that second one monqy < 1311557108 559787 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: prayer is taboo? < 1311557116 974967 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prayer is like the least taboo thing, at least in some places < 1311557120 729176 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that we are all conditioned to pray to pre-defined gods is clear < 1311557126 489537 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is.. if we pray < 1311557133 978174 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's official, I'm a fucking idiot. I was pressing the power button on my case because I was convinced that my case falli't attached to anything. I was wrong < 1311557143 270678 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*falling apart meant it < 1311557147 359195 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant it wasn't < 1311557198 263322 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im starting to lose a grip on reality in my posts now < 1311557243 180030 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pray to the flying spaghetti monster < 1311557245 520615 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311557297 469882 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ;-; < 1311557311 936119 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what i mean is < 1311557317 997550 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. fsm is a constructed god < 1311557354 591488 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the story of all the gods etc < 1311557375 700314 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fsm is certainly a constructed god just as scientology is a constructed religion < 1311557387 986853 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how esperanto and lojban are constructed languages < 1311557424 79456 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the word esoteric < 1311557430 287672 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric vs constructed < 1311557456 508728 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology is not a proper religion, I think < 1311557464 310499 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper? < 1311557503 726192 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper? < 1311557516 729780 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cult, but cult is just a word for religions that do things people don't like < 1311557529 691416 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more like someone who try to earn money and keep everything secret and so on they have reports. < 1311557539 253666 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Church of Scientology(tm) is obviously a completely abhorrent organisation, objectively, but I don't see how you can dismiss the beliefs any more than another religion < 1311557548 192496 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are freezoners who practice the beliefs outside of the CoS. < 1311557576 845228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I don't know about the freezoners. But maybe they are a more proper religion; I don't know. < 1311557595 852638 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: religion =/= religious organisation < 1311557612 254337 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology-ala-CoS and Scientology-ala-free-zoners may be sects but they're the same religion < 1311557627 119975 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1311557722 377020 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :linguistically "the truth" implies only one truth < 1311557775 951790 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the truth is the set of all things that are true < 1311557787 371951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you're proposing logical relativism < 1311557795 915604 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :would the truth explain collective conciousness? < 1311557806 670403 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "collective consciousness" :P < 1311557907 266765 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :each individual probably has memories of being conscious in the past < 1311557915 542174 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :former instances of their conciousness < 1311557934 333725 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus can potentially anticipate future instances of their conciousness < 1311557970 688445 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can also try to guess what anothers conciousness is like.. but never really know < 1311558001 751969 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so taking each individuals conciousness as a specific thing, one can imagine a generalization of conciousness < 1311558010 676713 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a visual field for example.. < 1311558059 519456 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all these visual fields.. < 1311558070 815773 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : each individual probably has memories of being conscious in the past < 1311558073 287905 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seem to occupy a known space < 1311558074 336020 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you say this? < 1311558080 449246 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the same time, I don't see how this relates to "the truth" < 1311558096 69666 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :_everything_ relates to "the truth" :P < 1311558106 285281 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is not very helpful < 1311558121 291522 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does the truth need to explain collective consciousness? < 1311558126 418986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think pure consciousness would have a visual field for sure. It might be related but I think it is not the same thing at all < 1311558129 816231 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and why does the truth have any obligations at all?) < 1311558142 455888 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i am throwing a few fallacies around < 1311558146 586513 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to catch myself.. < 1311558167 922683 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that i don't know what the truth is i can't assume everything relates to it] < 1311558172 394738 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yada yada < 1311558178 299833 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ideas of consciousness are very different and incomplete (mostly because I don't know everything). < 1311558224 686383 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: good points. < 1311558239 586188 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer is cos it would make life easier < 1311558274 686195 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to make some general rule < 1311558286 712392 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: btw, i don't get an annoying reminder someone mentioned me if you misspell my name ;-) you could try tab completion ("ell" should do it) < 1311558293 508467 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so I might not reply) < 1311558354 700801 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if my client has name completion < 1311558376 978679 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1311558386 962155 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, every client does; two, you're using XChat < 1311558449 389799 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1311558456 722906 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311558472 721902 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i hit tab, it jumps around the GUI < 1311558476 316191 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think every client does. < 1311558490 19102 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just i don't know how to use the client < 1311558493 724620 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some have it optional or use different keys, too. < 1311558535 699814 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you need to type in a name prefix first < 1311558558 146423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can use a macro if it would help better, I don't know... < 1311558559 951914 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1311558565 937949 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to use 3 characters < 1311558573 404676 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :e l l tab < 1311558604 152900 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you just say ""ell" " < 1311558616 166467 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311558627 326027 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "el" is ambiguous because "Elizacat" also has that prefix (and names are case insensitive in IRC) < 1311558641 114209 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed i could get away with just typing 1 letter < 1311558645 951102 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "e tab" < 1311558653 942583 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i read "ell" as "L" < 1311558657 981077 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um e works for me < 1311558668 224155 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :completes EgoBot, though < 1311558689 628319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to Settings → Preferences → Input box → Nick Completion and changes sorting to last spoken
< 1311558696 192382 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in XChat) < 1311558702 463763 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may want to check that configuration too, itidus20 < 1311558716 300329 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1311558737 905353 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do know, is, there is different tab completion, such as Windows and GNU have two different kind of tab completion. Windows completes the entire text and pushing tab again completes a different filename, with GNU it only completes the unambiguous part and then if you push again, it list all of them. < 1311558782 403081 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: test < 1311558783 918459 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1311558789 255933 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnarly < 1311558806 988549 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: test2 < 1311558815 96297 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: * elliott_ goes to Settings → Preferences → Input box → Nick Completion and changes sorting to last spoken < 1311558815 784775 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1311558823 936822 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'll always be me because i never shut up < 1311558829 988066 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if they can change tab completion option between Windows-style and GNU-style < 1311558852 182232 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizacat: last spoken humm < 1311558856 883003 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1311558875 995002 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1311558904 607373 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: test < 1311558909 883539 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: test < 1311558925 513924 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh it'll do < 1311558929 763682 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its pretty good < 1311558962 500727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it doesn't actually start registering when people speak before you set the option < 1311558967 833325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wild theory) < 1311558981 99094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fine now < 1311558986 586186 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its good enough -- beter than be fore < 1311559141 146407 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229160123.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311559333 203677 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1311559657 761380 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the neighbors dog is in hear < 1311559659 325338 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat < 1311559667 133424 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dogs freaking out again < 1311559680 794771 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rips the damn fence palings in 2 to see the neighbours dog < 1311559919 448557 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311559991 293495 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311560108 291424 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311562649 922778 :derrik!~xix@128-74-131-46.internet.emt.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311563264 597711 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311563306 919856 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311563362 48645 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311563631 346936 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311563816 803500 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311563910 574647 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311563937 187503 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311564006 5650 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311564031 242045 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311564042 31130 :derrik!~xix@128-74-131-46.internet.emt.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311564442 5316 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311564782 310088 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311564856 897361 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311564901 400082 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311564961 304023 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311565281 879941 :javawizard!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311566516 73322 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311567531 68111 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311567533 365653 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why hi < 1311567568 517710 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311567625 564575 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1311568637 813488 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311569082 239824 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I'm Good < 1311569089 913090 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oig < 1311569094 259588 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randomly checked MSPA, there's an update < 1311569108 402854 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ok, so I'm not good, I've had a bunch of misses like that.) < 1311569113 262629 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is this like gambling?) < 1311569491 293517 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311569584 222073 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311569642 968185 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may just give up on Chicken Scheme < 1311569688 486542 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with the "there's an egg for that" Scheme? < 1311569771 808341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, Sgeo_ just always chickens out < 1311569799 187669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats himself -----###
< 1311569818 843206 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can't get eggs to install, and the fact that on the mailing list, a regular was unable to get the egg I wanted to install to install for himself, for a different reason, is not encouraging < 1311569823 76532 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I didn't even need to groan. < 1311569837 530063 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the eggs are a bit... rotten. < 1311570248 831160 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ul (fizzie: PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSH)S < 1311570248 883734 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSH < 1311570249 401895 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: would the second statement you said allow for 0 or more instances of the " pc" of an acceptable size. :p < 1311570250 783005 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god dammit, fungot < 1311570251 135486 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: how would that work ( assuming you did everything right, which is deliminated by dollar signs. how can ( with a minimum amount of writing < 1311570436 213499 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311571158 526641 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaah*. < 1311571190 46278 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having meaningful, pleasant IRL social interactions is a fairly nice feeling. < 1311571230 858621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1311571230 911216 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1311571417 814112 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yay < 1311572027 952849 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<netdaemon> for instance, pass a hash to a procedure directly < 1311572033 232787 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : the keys and values get mixed up < 1311572033 394176 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : wat is that < 1311572040 772981 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<netdaemon> Sgeo_, the keys and values you set before you pass, are different inside what you pass it to < 1311572049 184344 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : in other words foo = 1, bar = 2, could end up foo = 2, bar = 1 < 1311572049 236626 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : you *have* to pass it by reference < 1311572049 236713 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : or you get that crap < 1311572052 244507 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[About Perl] < 1311572078 361402 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone explain what's going on with that? If that's really as he said, that's... nonsensical < 1311572352 555104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if it is how it says, why would it be like that? < 1311572375 970634 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm asking here < 1311572400 572984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't know either. < 1311572438 515320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make something like a text adventure game: < 1311572440 72383 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Deck* < 1311572455 85554 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are on the deck of a navy ship. You can see the flags and sails from here. < 1311572485 481951 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the deck is the captain, the captain's brother, a bucket of fire, and some other sailors. < 1311572495 65230 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go fore or starboard. < 1311572496 816528 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311572552 615174 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I split myself into multple selves and let one self ascend to godhood < 1311572565 277734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are unable to. Try again. < 1311572566 883931 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311572624 429219 :JamezQ!~james@c-24-4-176-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311572636 219928 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Try again/Please try again/ < 1311572684 703386 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The excess seen by the Atlas team has reached a 2.8 sigma level of certainty. A three-sigma result means there is roughly a one in 1,000 chance that the result is attributable to some statistical quirk in the data." < 1311572692 514457 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I would phrase that like that < 1311572723 734192 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, doesn't matter < 1311572749 879160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I don't even know what the Atlas team is. < 1311572779 41158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are three kind of lies: normal lies, really bad lies, and statistics.) < 1311572779 830393 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14266358 < 1311572870 459372 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why don't you try something else in my game? Something other than splitting yourself and godhood and so on.) < 1311572896 814867 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine bucket of fire < 1311572939 323370 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fire contains rags that were previously used for clothing but are now burnt and cannot be used. The fire is very low by now. < 1311572941 84181 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311572963 146097 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put hand in fire < 1311572974 836394 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm just being silly, not taking this game seriously < 1311573019 586465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fire goes out quickly due to your hand wet. < 1311573021 281405 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573038 675818 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Try something a bit less silly, perhaps.) < 1311573052 808282 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, yes, I am also reading that BBC article) < 1311573053 576247 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have a DM that won't let me die? < 1311573058 42810 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm going to try < 1311573060 141002 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes out a cell-shaded wind waker wand and changes the direction of the wind.
< 1311573061 772782 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I jump overboard < 1311573067 347889 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding < 1311573102 168779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. You are now in the water. Your uniform is getting wet. < 1311573108 318284 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573130 987286 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I exhale, put my head underwater, and take a few deep breaths < 1311573162 861485 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You try, but sink and drown before you are able. Now you are dead. You lose. < 1311573184 196396 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1311573189 9079 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: OK you are just kidding. Try something else. From the start. < 1311573212 369385 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sorry < 1311573250 610166 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go fore. < 1311573264 441833 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Center of Ship* < 1311573293 126890 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see some cargo blocking the way any direction except aft and down. Nothing else is in here. < 1311573293 667766 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops.. i got confused.. ill go back to the deck < 1311573294 713272 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573311 778280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Now you are back at the deck. < 1311573318 531774 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whistle blows. < 1311573332 819610 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being an experienced sailor, you can recognize that they want everyone on the deck by now. < 1311573339 512942 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: If you call sub(%foo) and %foo contains ("a" => 1, "b" => 2), it will push either "a", 1, "b", 2 or "b", 2, "a", 1 on the argument stack (@_) of the sub. So the order is not defined, but either way it will have keys and their corresponding values next to each other. And if you build a new hash with %bar = @_ inside the sub, then %bar will contain the same keys and values as %foo. < 1311573356 715248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same things are on the deck as before, plus Also, and some other doppelgangers. < 1311573358 954250 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573368 385337 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/doppelgangers/sailors/ < 1311573369 708150 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine captain. < 1311573378 188815 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why did I write doppelgangers? That makes no sense.) < 1311573391 270810 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, he's supposedly not complaining about undefined order, just that keys and values don't stay associated < 1311573407 306340 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, he left, when he's next on, I'll ask for a concrete example < 1311573423 116279 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain of this ship is a man of average height and is wearing a captain's uniform. He is holding a spyglass. < 1311573425 599565 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573467 33464 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk to captain. (should i specify what i say?) < 1311573470 165949 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Well, that doesn't happen. < 1311573487 720838 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the way i havent really played text adventure games... ive only heard of them) < 1311573491 859504 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -e '%foo = ("a" => 1, "b" => 2); sub foo { print join(" ", @_), "\n"; } foo(%foo);' < 1311573492 31028 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 1 b 2 < 1311573492 461032 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain notices some pirate ships in the distance. You can see them now, too. < 1311573494 112348 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573525 759947 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1311573543 568600 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Should I try just using natural english?) < 1311573557 145333 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Do it if you want to. This is not a *real* text adventure game. < 1311573580 975947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although an actual text adventure game could be written based on this and other things) < 1311573628 670057 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine self. < 1311573647 697299 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look about the same as always, except that you are now wearing a guest uniform. < 1311573669 690696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you do that, the captain looks throught he spyglass, notices something, and passes it to his brother. < 1311573671 344029 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573769 797292 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk to the captain again. < 1311573802 571285 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain told you he noticed something that is probably bad, on those pirate ships. Something bad will probably happen. < 1311573815 60582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After doing so, the captain's brother passes the spyglass to you. < 1311573816 498355 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573830 782808 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine fire bucket. < 1311573853 551195 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bucket contains some old rags used for clothing, but are now burnt. The fire has gone out by now. < 1311573857 510923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311573902 662320 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(brb) < 1311573919 170230 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-196-49.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311573920 694339 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311573969 218510 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1311573988 218435 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk to sailors. < 1311574014 25478 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sailors are nervous of your presence and do not wish to talk to you right now. < 1311574015 742883 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574055 806434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ are / seem to be / < 1311574185 739192 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does anyone else have any ideas?) < 1311574203 429308 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bah.. ill continue) < 1311574244 538247 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can always wait or check your inventory if you have nothing else to do.) < 1311574266 925776 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :check inventory < 1311574279 866621 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a guest uniform (being worn) and a rope. < 1311574289 768161 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574330 412053 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311574344 99246 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Request spyglass. < 1311574360 555715 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, sorry. Let me try again. < 1311574368 186160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a guest uniform (being worn), a rope, and a spyglass. < 1311574374 946712 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You already have the spyglass, I just forgot) < 1311574376 702338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574383 410891 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at pirate ship with spyglass. < 1311574409 318820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look at the pirate ship. You can see some shaman waving their arms. You recognize it as some kind of summoning spell. < 1311574432 964005 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you do so, the water shakes a bit and hooks come up out of the water and get attached to the edge of the ship. < 1311574435 351391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574533 413935 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look around with the spyglass. < 1311574589 794381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You notice nothing special. You can see the same things you have seen before. There are five pirate ships in the distance. < 1311574618 186481 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :After doing so, some kuo-toas[1] arrive and climb on the deck. < 1311574624 57737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574640 146913 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] See D&D 3.5e Monster Manual for information. < 1311574705 246349 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speak to kuo-toa. < 1311574747 202803 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of answering, they try to throw a sticky rope at you. Luckily, they missed. < 1311574777 685571 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, Also appears to transform into a gray featureless humanoid shape, still wearing the guest uniform, but also wielding a green sword. < 1311574803 713899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain is wondering whether something should be done about this transformation, as well as about the attack. < 1311574805 347002 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311574887 667360 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kick kuo-toa. < 1311574936 755354 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You miss. One of the kuo-toa tries to attack you and this time you get hit by a sticky rope. One also tries to throw a rope at Also and manages to hit. Also tries to attack one of them with the green sword and hits, knocking one unconscious. < 1311574938 556177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575049 869583 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throw rope at a concious kuo-toa < 1311575075 17985 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You try to take it but now it is stuck on your hand too. < 1311575081 57371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575096 665432 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can try again if you want, or do something else.) < 1311575126 516692 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was being kind of stupid because obviously my regular piece of rope is not a weapon) < 1311575130 445923 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311575140 720293 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hide behind Also
< 1311575150 523320 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. Your regular piece of rope is not a weapon. < 1311575154 261491 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are now hiding. < 1311575182 190497 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you almost get hit by a cannon. < 1311575188 163033 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also hits one and kills one kuo-toa. < 1311575189 755775 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575255 374954 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look around. < 1311575297 809956 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You notice the same things as before. < 1311575309 604713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You accidentally dropped the spyglass and now you have to pay for it. < 1311575322 871727 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the kuo-toas are now trying to retreat back into the water. < 1311575338 281940 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others are still trying to attack. < 1311575349 776565 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One notices you, and attempts to attack you, and misses. < 1311575351 367393 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575369 44722 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack the kuo-toa. < 1311575374 310454 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^a < 1311575394 337199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You miss. They try to attack you and slightly damage you. < 1311575409 815971 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, and some of the sailors, try to attack the other kuo-toas. < 1311575423 945140 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the sailors appear to be ensuring the cannons are ready to attack the other ships if it becomes necessary. < 1311575426 141629 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575467 679182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1311575510 2875 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack a kuo-toa. < 1311575538 663925 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tried again, and still missed. < 1311575562 686718 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Next time, you can try to stun them or cast a spell. You do have a few spells.) < 1311575565 515907 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575617 68201 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :List my available spells. < 1311575624 744742 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless theres too many < 1311575647 959749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1311575652 827230 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean.. < 1311575653 646226 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Frotz (makes an object emit light) < 1311575654 728660 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1311575665 294454 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Erase (erases writing on an object) < 1311575666 511611 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can look em up with wiki < 1311575670 41340 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1311575676 949759 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no clue what spells i have :P < 1311575692 617874 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Affect Magical Aura (change the magic aura of something to appear to be something else) < 1311575700 284585 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Grease (makes the floor slippery) < 1311575710 816617 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- True Seeing (see past illusions and other magic) < 1311575717 188805 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :End of spell list. < 1311575718 713235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575733 123570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I will list one more: < 1311575754 598212 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Time Hop (makes an object vanish, and reappear in the same place in 30 seconds to 1 minute (you can select the duration)) < 1311575816 773321 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cast Grease. Ideally under my foes but i'll still do it if it'll affect me < 1311575847 923821 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Some of the kuo-toas, as well as some of the sailors, as well as Also, all slip and fall down. < 1311575860 566141 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to be unaffected at the current moment. < 1311575862 143006 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575878 453060 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cast True Seeing. < 1311575908 805483 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cast True Seeing. You notice nothing special. < 1311575917 916709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the kuo-toas, some of the sailors, and Also, all get up. < 1311575933 905284 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them attacks Also and misses. One attacks you and moderately damages you. < 1311575935 320650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311575954 648831 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stun a kuo-toa, < 1311575974 6404 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. You manage to stun three of them at once. < 1311575997 722019 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also attacks one of the unstunned ones and hits. One of the kuo-toas attacks Also and slightly damages him. < 1311576007 592641 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody manages to attack you. < 1311576010 846848 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576032 248285 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack a stunned Kuo-toa < 1311576064 13363 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. You hit. He is now unconscious. < 1311576081 159244 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also attacks one of the unstunned ones and hits. One of the huo-toas attacks Also and slightly damages him. < 1311576085 779154 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest retreat back into the water. < 1311576088 539171 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576149 885864 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack a stunned kuo-toa. < 1311576175 964637 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow you still missed. < 1311576177 666519 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576207 298393 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stun kuo-toa. < 1311576242 145820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them are already either stunned, unconscious, or dead. Nothing happens, although some of them might be stunned for a longer duration due to this. < 1311576243 718385 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576319 591951 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1311576363 368202 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time passes. The captain's brother reveals a scroll case. < 1311576366 904913 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576421 900313 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examine the scroll case. < 1311576445 881108 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a plain scroll case one foot in length, and appears to be waterproof. < 1311576461 474691 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captain's brother remarks that perhaps the pirates wanted this scroll case, and not the gold. < 1311576480 821327 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, he doesn't know how they could have known about this scroll case, since it was supposed to be a secret. < 1311576482 370751 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next? < 1311576596 871585 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :oriaw < 1311576620 817896 :oriaw!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :derivector < 1311576621 781305 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :open the scroll case < 1311576682 353240 :derivector!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :azaq23 < 1311576687 326866 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not yours to open. It belongs to the king. < 1311576707 952422 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i play < 1311576725 881094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1311576728 559598 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can stop here if you wish. Note that this is based on a scene from a D&D game I played and there is nothing else to do. Read it if you want to, including for a complete list of spells and my solutions) < 1311576740 190465 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :azaq23p < 1311576746 306307 :azaq23p!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 NICK :azaq23 < 1311576770 148576 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty clueless about d & d... :P < 1311576792 22706 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean not entirely clueless but yeah < 1311576821 673025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: That is OK. You might be able to understand some of it, since the main text (but not necessarily the foot notes or character sheets) are written in normal text. < 1311576833 924303 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to be so hesitant with these things < 1311576852 373654 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in life i have an enormous amount of difficulty slipping out of character < 1311576859 229887 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean .. in character < 1311576866 594650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where I started on the deck here, is not actually where the game stats. < 1311576871 683876 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not even where the session starts. < 1311576874 599544 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i mean < 1311576914 355768 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain neuroses i haven't learned to break.. < 1311576914 653406 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both the source file (TeX) and the output file (DVI) are available. So is the macro package I wrote for the purpose of recording D&D games, as well as a recording of a different game I am in as well. < 1311576932 490245 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: What neuroses are those? Can you try harder? < 1311576944 365559 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to make friends with psychos in real life. < 1311576947 854569 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazies at least < 1311576969 282492 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to hating the people i spend most of my time with in real life < 1311576981 850266 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not lately.. since i have withdrawn to my moms basement < 1311576998 830631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes I do crazy things too (not always). < 1311577004 645967 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1311577007 374355 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is currently nothing in my basement. < 1311577022 395822 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who only keep me around as company to take advantage of me < 1311577027 101648 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would not be useful to go there, except to fix things, measure things, or to get away from the heat. < 1311577028 298608 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because they like me < 1311577040 749239 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because they want me to enjoy their company < 1311577063 122623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, then you would have to try harder to avoid them taking advantage of you in circumstances when you do not want it. < 1311577087 757431 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that personal stuff is supposed to not enter the room < 1311577104 556964 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is OK, you don't have to. < 1311577133 358064 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do you know of TeX, anyways? < 1311577155 629286 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that related to latex? < 1311577175 733583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might want to tell you that the first time I played D&D, I selected race/class at random, from the Player's Handbook only. Resulting in a human wizard. Who had armor and a mace. < 1311577232 4600 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Yes it is related. LaTeX is a format and a set of macros and packages written on top of a variant of TeX, which is PDF-e-XeTeX. < 1311577254 337082 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Plain TeX, and use it for my stuff. < 1311577262 549171 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world has always been a place where some are happy by making others suffer. < 1311577294 318959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :These days it is more implicit than explicit. < 1311577322 880196 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it might be. Often because some people are being greedy or stupid (or both). < 1311577326 62633 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the surface society pretends to be happy and friendly. < 1311577368 51457 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mostly, I guess. < 1311577373 252672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a report about it if you want to. < 1311577451 815908 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is an economy based on the ability to cope with stress or not. < 1311577460 276155 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those who cope well with stress and conflict thrive < 1311577478 701878 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those who don't become the food. < 1311577527 683120 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, if you have to withdraw from stress and conflict, you lose. < 1311577533 568453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Fuck. < 1311577550 739029 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, literal interpretation of Genesis time... < 1311577552 376678 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes I do suppose there is a lot of that these days. < 1311577553 826099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noah's Ark. < 1311577581 617609 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't every animal on the ark have to carry every unique disease for that species? < 1311577592 709657 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Every*. < 1311577623 136736 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, breeding pair. Could be split between the two. < 1311577639 810212 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the clean animals, there's 7, so < 1311577640 674016 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I don't see why. < 1311577641 856515 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1311577647 742451 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Otherwise they wouldn't exist. < 1311577662 912914 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: O, yes. Now I see. < 1311577665 900657 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Only species extant on the ark could exist post-flood. < 1311577679 717410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the "clean" animals have any unique diseases? < 1311577681 327991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we go with a literal interpretation and claim no evolution since. < 1311577691 433320 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, yes, there's rather a *lot* of clean animals. < 1311577699 242175 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I can see now, we are going with a literal interpretation < 1311577724 673990 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never mind that there has been speciation more recent than the claimed occurance of the ark story...) < 1311577756 254947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But obviously the people who wrote it made up something because they didn't actually know. It is mythology, like other mythology is. < 1311577774 620309 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the only problem being that a notable number of people believe it literally happened. < 1311577795 588827 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike, say, Greek mythology, where there's maybe a few nutjobs that do. < 1311577821 528488 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes I know those things. < 1311577853 633712 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311577871 860820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they have all animals, they must also have all small ones, big ones, and one that can only live in the water... < 1311577880 548545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311577910 779808 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe by "animals" in that text they didn't include people or fish < 1311577928 298102 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "bird" they also included bats < 1311578087 539126 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, they'd have serious issues even with fish. < 1311578093 746016 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311578099 426247 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either the saltwater or the freshwater fish would be *fucked*. < 1311578124 80948 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On another note, I realized I have the full text of King James Bible in my computer, but not the deuterocanonical books. I have been told that the deuterocanonical books are part of the original King James Bible however. Do you know of such texts are available? < 1311578137 199155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes of course I can see that < 1311578399 529580 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there is a lot of absurdity and stuff in the Bible; however, the text that God created light at first before creating the light producing objects (the sun), does make sense, from both scientific and from spiritual points of view. It might be said to be the Light of God; or the various electromagnetic radiation of various frequencies including light near the start of the universe; or whatever. At least *this* part is not complete nonse < 1311578416 144637 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have stacks of ebooks on my pc. some legal. some illegal. < 1311578425 546260 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there still is a lot of nonsense nevertheless, of the Bible. < 1311578431 307690 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :none however paid for < 1311578445 256512 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sheer dumb luck, but hey. < 1311578466 154112 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikisource seems to have the KJV apocrypha. < 1311578467 326314 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded this sweet cache of philosophical texts < 1311578474 824643 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikisource/en/wiki/Bible_%28King_James%29 < 1311578489 180608 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, you would be correct about that. Of course it is unlikely the people who wrote that part of Genesis (note it comes from various sources) knew anything about science. < 1311578517 413314 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is well aware of the documentary hypothesis
< 1311578609 744507 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is always the problems of where to apply literalism and where not to. also interpretations of any text will always vary. < 1311578652 682333 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the history of any given text that old tends to be mysterious enough that it's anyones guess. < 1311578661 236731 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have of the KJV is in plain ASCII text format, and is accessible over both HTTP and gopher protocols. I would like to find one similar thing to add (perhaps as a separate file) of the apocrypha. < 1311578665 454267 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And theer is also mistranslations from language A to language B < 1311578670 582602 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Why should I care about whether any of it's literal? < 1311578685 920165 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, the Wikisource version has the Apocrypha. < 1311578687 839042 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance "40" apparently can also mean "many" < 1311578688 993804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Yes I noticed those things too. There can be mistranslations and unknown things about the history. < 1311578730 524904 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: The only things that could be taken literally and not contradict, well, essentially all empirical evidence we have are also fairly irrelevant. < 1311578774 796542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I am using KJV is simply because it is in the public domain (Wikisource says it is perpetual copyright in the UK, but I don't live there). < 1311578778 20211 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and religions spring up all across the world.. so they are natural enough for us to have < 1311578790 291854 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as written language sprung up < 1311578794 671963 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Friggin' crown copyright. < 1311578812 52962 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: And we know of some religions in cultures without written languages. < 1311578824 449467 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really does seem to be a universal. < 1311578871 697498 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I really miss about the times long gone is the natural beauty of the land before we ravaged it < 1311578899 190083 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with roads.. and what do roads exist for? faster transport.. < 1311578913 632810 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roads are also pretty shitty transport. < 1311578917 99730 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and concrete.. well i dont know the exact role of masses of concrete < 1311578927 50402 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and skyscrapers.. < 1311578938 26858 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :welll population growth has a role in it too of course < 1311578945 395421 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :termites build mounds etc < 1311578962 229015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly simple, actually. If we didn't build those we would be *way* over capacity. < 1311578975 303718 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its just that human activities are so pronounced.. the rest of the plants and animals can't keep a balance with us < 1311578984 702025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is true the human people are also the problem of making everything messed up you have to be more careful next time. However, there is purposes for things. Everything can have the purposes of them too. < 1311579000 55346 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, we're outpacing evolution by several orders of magnitude. < 1311579020 177406 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sea has done a good job of protecting itself by means of its fierce waves < 1311579038 395401 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever gets built on the sea, gets crushed < 1311579067 979669 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or washed ashore < 1311579082 969701 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Someone* doesn't know about oil rigs... < 1311579100 4878 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. it can't beat oil, yeah < 1311579110 513806 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm ok.. good point < 1311579128 601931 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lord Oil demands we build on the ocean. Cost is little object. < 1311579278 323508 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of feel bad for my hypothetical children < 1311579319 300833 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (/) < 1311579320 84668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => a -> a -> a < 1311579370 987789 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not want to have any children please. < 1311579422 448377 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Bible is warning you about all of these things can you see that? And yet, many things happen too badly. Pay attention to the warning! We are messing up everything too much! Be more careful next time please! < 1311579442 28903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some say the message of the Bible is that of love. I say it is that of warning. < 1311579540 526932 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i noticed for example that sea creatures don't build things in the ocean < 1311579555 804223 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they could evolve such capacities if it were a good thing < 1311579586 990265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even some Christians have never read the Bible. < 1311579587 206355 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I parially gfixed some of my Chicken Scheme issues < 1311579605 743001 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, some eggs are platform-depenent, apparently < 1311579660 768142 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which.. uh.. spiders build webs.. but i guess its far too much of an energy waste to construct anything meaningful in that way < 1311579675 599019 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :plants do it i suppose < 1311579692 779585 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :spiders build webs.. a plant is a web in some cases < 1311579775 110128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'd say the "message" of the Bible is that YHWH is evil. < 1311580164 195010 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, say what you want to. I suppose you could instead say the message is that it is complete nonsense, if you wanted to. < 1311580211 587424 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Skeptics Annotated Bible has the entire KJV text (but does not include apocrypha) and many cross-references and external references and other notes. < 1311580400 416208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the jawbone of an ass a good weapon? < 1311580466 469829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex_: Why did you try and exile coppro again < 1311580466 576334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1311580498 532768 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the basic trouble I have is to have a character who is not me. I am not good at all at making that detachment < 1311580535 478159 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I am somewhat good at it, but much, I think. I am not sure. < 1311580539 817454 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they always inherit my insecurities unless like i am playing a single player game when noone is watching < 1311580543 319672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/much/not a lot/ < 1311580574 895978 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sorta know why... but doing something about it is like debugging my psyche < 1311580627 38575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I improve on that and other things related to the game, when playing the game multiple times < 1311580672 127171 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a wannabe author its a problem < 1311580693 914567 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't write a character who doesn't secretly inherit all my neuroses < 1311580729 174762 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but please note that in saying this I am expressing my plan to change it. < 1311580751 444091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I understand a bit. Have you tried writing any such things? < 1311580758 60390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you improved at all? < 1311580773 119282 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :My characters tend to not have much social interaction. < 1311580802 527893 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of get into this problem of trying to analyze every character in a scene and how they would act < 1311580814 770100 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly thats impossible. < 1311580821 353204 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it can be difficult. < 1311580848 914612 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe its better to be like Mezzacotta and just define each character and throw them into situations < 1311580853 503187 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would saying "Or I might just look at Racket" be offensive in #chicken ? < 1311580887 535198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: UR SO RUDE IM SUICIDE < 1311580890 117250 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read my recordings, see if they would interest you or whatever, criticize it a lot if you want to, or whatever < 1311580908 844010 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source file: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex Output file: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.dvi < 1311580917 445270 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh good old cjb < 1311580926 47339 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the geocities which never died < 1311580932 14618 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know it still existed < 1311580954 822508 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cjb had that subculture thing about it < 1311580954 929700 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using the Dynamic DNS service from them < 1311580997 463315 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean back in the old days you know.. it was all about html 4 pages and webrings.. < 1311581004 172827 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :geocities, cjb, angelfire < 1311581055 390484 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I use the dynamic DNS so that I can run multiple protocols and have my own control over the servers and stuff like that. I don't use webrings, much of my files are not HTML at all, and so on. It is different from most. < 1311581059 769239 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the world hasn't changed, and it's just me < 1311581070 813650 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is noone uses webrings etc anymore < 1311581089 523331 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see it sometimes used. < 1311581089 660386 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :blogs are fucking ugly... facebooks are ugly.. myspaces are ugly.. < 1311581105 993771 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no attempt anymore to actually create webpages < 1311581124 100300 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^by amateurs < 1311581135 242958 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all php and mysql and apache < 1311581158 703403 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont for the life of me understand why so many webpages need databases :D < 1311581185 474610 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"accounts" < 1311581201 583135 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess... i guess.. the web has become an application platform < 1311581205 137598 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did this happen < 1311581213 859735 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know html4 was an application platform.. < 1311581221 760982 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet tim berners lee never knew either < 1311581235 557713 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the "internet" --- ok im ranting in monologue < 1311581238 285609 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be. I avoid using it as an application platform < 1311581280 533520 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :email is good yeah.. forums yeah.. < 1311581292 173744 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :flashgames.. sure.. youtube.. sur < 1311581313 860400 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its getting weird < 1311581334 421677 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know and I generally try to avoid that kind of stuff instead. < 1311581355 44101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not only HTTP server, but also a gopher server and IRC server in my computer < 1311581405 434627 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno im just ranting.. < 1311581421 728942 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i believe ranting is the most honest form of communication. < 1311581423 986213 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And generally programs I write using C or CWEB or whatever, they can be downloaded and run or compiled on your computer, use them local use < 1311581439 443972 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/HTML/Javascript/PHP is such a *stupid* stack for an application platform, too. < 1311581451 445760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ais isn't here < 1311581454 919095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1311581465 229948 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, jeeze, the only stack I can think of that'd be worse is, like, X over WAN. < 1311581467 259368 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I agree. < 1311581481 129620 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my rants are full of shit, but at the time they have an honest energy < 1311581494 99801 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just rattle off one fallacy after another < 1311581496 519815 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, is there a problem with the HTTP part? < 1311581514 605261 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better way depends on what it is. In some cases, SSH would be better, in other cases, just a local program is OK. < 1311581521 322786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1311581532 644417 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the web is free < 1311581538 780301 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has that going for it. < 1311581547 163160 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes, HTTP is a flawed protocol. < 1311581550 217710 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :richard stallman needs to get on this though. < 1311581563 34615 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: No he doesn't. < 1311581571 410034 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I heard an anti-Racket rant < 1311581588 780598 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU/www < 1311581592 580185 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Done EmacsW32 base setup. Sleeping 20 seconds so you may read this ..." < 1311581595 142681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Application platform should be the one for the use, such as C program compiled locally and such < 1311581602 747964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It contains many complexities that literally nobody uses, for instance. < 1311581630 111301 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, its basic design is completely contrary to the use it gets put to. < 1311581631 410745 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For banking, SSH would be a good way to do it, I think. < 1311581635 271457 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a wiki protocol. < 1311581646 987756 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a html document has evolved into an application platform space. < 1311581710 818282 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic operations of HTTP are get, put, delete, and patch. < 1311581717 356678 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its so absurd.. mr burners lee wouldn't have imagined it in 1million years < 1311581719 526635 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honest. < 1311581735 189850 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works.. i must admit in contradiction to my rant < 1311581743 243247 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works, and it's free < 1311581765 813612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :burners :D < 1311581773 941328 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes maybe it means it should actually be used that way instead. With, get, put, delete, and patch. < 1311581775 692438 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :berners ;_; < 1311581797 593437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbl is a cool dude, if solid in his opinions < 1311581802 323317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how he has time to hang about on irc but < 1311581821 43242 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, it is basically used as either a generic data transport or a generic file host. < 1311581843 35444 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, would be fun if there were wikis that used those features < 1311581845 151817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he is in #swig a lot) < 1311581848 736376 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hyperlink is ok.. but sometimes people just jump to the URL bar < 1311581852 373745 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although modern web browsers don't really.. blah < 1311581854 174344 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is literally nothing more than a pointless layer for use as a generic data transport, and poorly suited for file hosting. < 1311581884 513765 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So effing much impedence mismatch. < 1311581885 674879 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance.. to travel from bing.com to google.com i type a g in the url bar < 1311581889 944585 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Yes, that would be what FTP and gopher protocols are for, I think. < 1311581900 697308 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: FTP also has a lot of stupidities. < 1311581902 274978 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hyperlinks involved there < 1311581906 304084 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTP is dumb < 1311581918 716628 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :search engines thrive on hypertext though... < 1311581922 771015 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires *several* round-trips just to get a single file. < 1311581926 150741 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be avoided wherever possible < 1311581929 648598 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it is so insanely stateful. < 1311581939 443638 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be dumb. But still it is what FTP was designed for, it is for file transfer. < 1311581952 590169 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is at least less impedence mismatch there. < 1311581967 411255 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other protocols. Including, Plan 9 Protocol, and SSH, and so on. < 1311581967 839508 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :use SFTP at least if you're going to use stupid < 1311581970 738121 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my local LAN at home my brother FTPs me files when we have trouble using windows network neighborhoood < 1311581994 284457 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I would gladly s/PHP/Python/g in any application stack ever < 1311582002 596631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was knew a printer who had an FTP server. You could upload a postscript file, and it'd print it. < 1311582010 137478 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/was/once/ < 1311582011 706082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gah.) < 1311582027 239999 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes please. < 1311582028 214796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You've said that, like, exact line before < 1311582035 530133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I would gladly s/Python//g in everything ever < 1311582041 511433 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Honestly, I think even C programs for CGI would be an improvement. < 1311582045 230582 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I typed it a bit differently, but yes, I think I've mentioned. < 1311582049 396808 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: heh yes < 1311582052 657717 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sad, I can't even figure out how to toggle an option in emacs < 1311582061 360937 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How much to you know about the type formalisms in Haskell < 1311582065 766438 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes I have heard of that too. However I would prefer one that used Plan 9 Protocol instead of FTP, and DVI instead of PostScript. And arrange in directories for the various jobs, and status, and fonts, and so on. < 1311582067 483048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That seems excessive; PHP doesn't have rampant memory corruption < 1311582077 81968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Depends what you mean by "type formalism" < 1311582097 958490 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The formal notions of Haskell's type system, and things like it's soundness and other useful properties < 1311582118 841461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "sound"; undefined :: a < 1311582123 578314 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I could just go talk to that guy at Google who studied at Glasgow. < 1311582128 647594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends what you mean by sound :-P < 1311582129 831397 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PHP has rampant injection attacks, though. < 1311582132 498701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh gee, thanks < 1311582134 234735 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is sound < 1311582143 456075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's sound in some senses and not in others < 1311582163 862037 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be Plan 9 Protocol over USB. < 1311582166 95844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Coq developer certainly wouldn't think much of Haskell's type system < 1311582166 411860 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry guys.. i tend to join channels where i am the least skilled in a field.. and go offtopic a lot to compensate. < 1311582176 620746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Through the Curry-Howard lens, it is inconsistent < 1311582183 709315 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i see it is coming back around to haskell. nice < 1311582186 824867 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Is okay, we just go off topic a lot. :P < 1311582212 746191 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sound means that you don't prove falsehoods < 1311582219 684150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Haskell's does < 1311582223 790553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: a -> b < 1311582224 963601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = undefined < 1311582228 829877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Void < 1311582230 296725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: Void < 1311582231 620690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = undefined < 1311582240 220264 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bottom is not a falshood < 1311582250 225910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even know what the Curry-Howard isomorphism is < 1311582253 75343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honest question < 1311582260 6738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Void is a falsehood, forall a b. a -> b is a falsehood < 1311582262 728693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those values are proofs < 1311582278 454644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go type "Axiom undefined : forall a, a." into Coq and tell me it's still sound < 1311582327 397381 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know what the Curry-Howard isomorphism is. < 1311582336 518453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Of course Haskell's type system is unsound!" --Conor McBride < 1311582336 818649 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: These are type-level falsehoods. < 1311582338 609998 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And I'm not talking about it < 1311582341 417748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Happy? < 1311582356 755016 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1311582370 509707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You can at least admit the term "sound" is ambiguous < 1311582386 829266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conor McBride is rather an expert :p < 1311582409 805331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What you probably refer to is type safety < 1311582411 923313 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: k fine then < 1311582427 354086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nice way to respond to someone who points out that experts disagree with your terminology < 1311582428 917589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1311582434 716786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go ask Mr. Glasgow I guess < 1311582439 603669 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type inference system < 1311582515 681006 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, that's Hindley-Milner you're referring to, right? < 1311582521 439839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extended < 1311582537 633871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, your questions are very vague. < 1311582550 944210 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, it's not *quite* straight Hindley-Milner, especially in GHC instead of Report. < 1311582558 481069 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yeah < 1311582600 463415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the "formal notions" of Haskell's type system, anyway < 1311582607 249612 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contrary to popular belief, Haskell is *not* a very formal language. < 1311582648 884909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug, have it your way < 1311582733 692156 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: on a relative scale, no < 1311582754 120363 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with this stuff because I'm not really in a paper-chugging mood < 1311582777 159117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have yet to define "this stuff" in any sort of answerable form < 1311582835 365579 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you can't answer the question, then the answer is "not enough" < 1311582852 306916 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you simply won't because you're a prick, then fuck off < 1311582855 875378 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What can you tell me about the formalisms in C? < 1311582867 626111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You have not asked a question. < 1311582872 315334 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The above question is about as specific. :) < 1311582881 202756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You have, however, acted like an asshole who isn't really interested in hearing answer from me, so...? < 1311582911 792631 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: A lot, sadly < 1311582936 242045 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh, right, there's actually things that could be called formalisms in the C spec. < 1311582945 925129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, C abstract machine... < 1311582980 434526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: In future, if you're going to refuse to ask a specific question, ignore me when I point out that your terminology is very vague, and then tell me to either shut up or fuck off, I'd appreciate it if you didn't fucking ping me in the first place. < 1311582984 727437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1311583148 555453 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Have you ever read the definition of restrict < 1311583157 87467 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The terminology was deliberately vauge < 1311583185 686876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then I ask you to tell me about programming, and if you ask for specificity, I'm going to assume you know nothing of the subject < 1311583201 361630 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not recently. < 1311583243 676640 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fuck Hindley-Milner < 1311583248 663993 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Still, probably a bit surprising to people who aren't aware of what's in the C spec. < 1311583250 745160 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paper goes on to define something for one thing < 1311583252 785272 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it for another < 1311583266 748959 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving me completely befuddled as to what is actually meant < 1311583273 289126 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rage < 1311583289 416528 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is *incredibly* different from what you'd think if you just saw what compilers do to C) < 1311583317 409459 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kidding < 1311583392 185103 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, that's in part because there's an impedence mismatch between C and common CPUs. < 1311583398 149924 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(surprising, I know.) < 1311584040 617597 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be incapable of remembering the name "Geiser" < 1311584086 947828 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If Geiser came with any guarantees, you�d break all of them by not using GNU Emacs 23.2" < 1311584093 794916 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm using 23.1 GRAH < 1311584757 763795 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311586119 135148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Updoot. < 1311586149 351398 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's no nice in-emacs way to do that < 1311586177 481114 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you said "Updoot" not to be funny, but because there's a tool called Updoot < 1311586191 813726 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VFTTGUjskc < 1311586221 305102 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I haven't watched the video) < 1311586228 851023 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or even seen the description until now) < 1311586269 353280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You fail at basic reading < 1311586293 878186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about Emacs, for instance < 1311586298 517728 :JamezQ!~james@c-24-4-176-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311586307 262866 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1311586357 767057 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME < 1311586957 678530 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PART :#esoteric < 1311587124 189809 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311587306 957426 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1311587663 403516 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311587872 691887 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311589530 800398 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311590350 868630 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311591160 923356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should ban cybermutiny from /r/mspaint just to see how e reacts. < 1311591524 616606 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on EARTH can i have files with dynamic content in linux???? < 1311591538 478133 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inability to do this is bewildering. < 1311591793 369129 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: sleeping < 1311592372 958738 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSE is the ugly solution. < 1311592387 297127 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "solution". < 1311593507 853735 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does disk-backed shm count? :P < 1311593640 521705 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do those... pipe file thingies count as? < 1311594108 527571 :CakeProphet!~adam@h107.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311594108 580176 :CakeProphet!~adam@h107.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311594108 580319 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311594799 812849 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-213-174.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311594919 421042 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-175-60.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311595431 506170 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They count as named pipes. < 1311595441 814048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really use them as files in all contextsies though. < 1311595460 41808 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also difficult if you have many readers at the same time. < 1311595584 346411 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Localhost-loopbacked NBD device is another alternative, but tends to require rootish stuff. < 1311595651 962776 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you can also quasi-easily offer "dynamic files" via GVFS and things like that, but they're not really real files then. < 1311595857 555622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gvfs has a fuse mapper in ~/.gvfs < 1311596005 468526 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311596074 504812 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :*.net *.split < 1311596156 188 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311596280 996183 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've noticed it does something like that when I gvfs-mount remote shares. < 1311596368 861057 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311598093 243134 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311598113 375584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311598236 940201 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-213-174.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1311599225 97152 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311599252 954320 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311601312 642979 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311602225 443813 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1311603360 7516 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311604095 582273 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is Monte Carlo a fancy name for something that really isn't that fancy? < 1311604120 125555 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that fancy a name < 1311604133 885402 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a city famous for its casinos and games of chance... < 1311604149 437009 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_simulation < 1311604178 275875 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence, any method involving a roulette wheel simulation in it somewhere is called monte carlo < 1311604329 62983 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311605158 10876 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311608951 350190 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311610002 263028 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-245.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311610616 134470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (==) IORef < 1311610616 206489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: == (IORef a) /count=20 < 1311610616 280203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude undefined :: a < 1311610616 332896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.QuickCheck.Batch bottom :: a < 1311610622 407665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (==) :: IORef a -> IORef a -> Bool < 1311610622 516926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (==) :: Eq a => a -> a -> Bool < 1311610622 589046 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Eq (==) :: Eq a => a -> a -> Bool < 1311611511 911330 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311612328 982162 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you looking for an instance Eq (IORef a)? < 1311612331 915242 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311612340 690747 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311612376 860215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Found, ages ago; conversation in private channel :-P < 1311612383 522043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, semi-private < 1311612396 691504 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1311612419 353583 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: it's a very good idea. < 1311612419 993742 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: last argument must be a cub scout!! have you made your money-drop today?? < 1311612547 267670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote tswett: last argument must be a cub scout!! have you made your money-drop today?? < 1311612547 783015 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and .txt doesn't have links either signed or unsigned... eh, don't worry < 1311612551 134568 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :544) tswett: last argument must be a cub scout!! have you made your money-drop today?? < 1311612559 369917 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style agora < 1311612559 877608 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) < 1311612570 391002 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: well, of could I would never do that. < 1311612571 29818 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 3) a player resigns from an office has whatever duties, then 3 extra votes on < 1311612580 225910 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: please continue that thought. < 1311612580 785434 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ( b) any entities disqualified by the assessor that e grants eir poa to the < 1311612595 285845 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yes, I like where this is going. Go on. < 1311612596 13006 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: d) any additional information in the new < 1311612606 424473 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: that should just about do it. One more. < 1311612606 898032 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: judgement ( cfj), < 1311612611 282683 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1311612651 255113 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :A player resigns from an office has whatever duties, then 3 extra votes on any entities disqualified by the Assessor that e grants eir POA to any additional information in the new judgement. < 1311613414 111573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311613887 215251 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311614465 175158 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311614655 793051 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311614744 84068 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311614885 653050 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the easiest way to convert html to pdf? < 1311614912 476137 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :press a button < 1311614940 981212 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like mice < 1311614961 68436 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're out of luck then < 1311614966 683685 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :no easy way < 1311614989 400533 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say it had to be easy < 1311614993 824946 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the easiest < 1311615031 768493 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a printer driver output PDF, I guess. < 1311615060 266406 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :print to pdf.. that also uses mouse, i.e. too easy < 1311615087 364653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use keyboard too, it doesn't require mouse < 1311615090 621146 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1311615092 938569 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try thhat < 1311615105 970660 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with the button actually < 1311615124 245846 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :button in e.g. openoffice < 1311615178 176667 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm learning italian and this bash/awk script is about italian food. should i try and translate the source code to italian? < 1311615180 724356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: prince xml is high quality iirc < 1311615199 594843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and free for non-commercial IIRC < 1311615203 815894 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I don't think PDF is a good format, it is full of dumb things < 1311615208 30501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and written in Mercury, a functional Prolog derivative :-) < 1311615217 662678 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311615297 921470 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a choice about the format. it'ss that or .doc :| < 1311615313 57034 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll look at prince < 1311615347 71207 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then use PDF, since DOC (Microsoft Word, I guess) has as many dumb things but in addition might not produce the same result on all computer < 1311615422 291931 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i have "cutepdf writer" installed.. it prints to pdf < 1311615461 82245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, windws < 1311615462 2677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows < 1311615495 231703 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311615506 567049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm i found the command to convince vimperator to do it < 1311615515 549380 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::ha >filename.pdf < 1311615537 907735 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311615538 124091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: gross, princexml will give nicer output :{ < 1311615547 420948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will look into it later < 1311615552 619310 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am on a train... < 1311615559 61745 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stops in like ten minutes < 1311615607 854280 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm also on a train.. it stops every other minute < 1311615619 846569 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does there exist such things sa PDF to HTML, PDF to picture format, PDF to DVI, etc.? < 1311615701 544249 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an excellent pdf to html < 1311615723 223613 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1311615725 858518 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1311615905 76060 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/neutronics/todd/nuc.bomb.html < 1311616119 771495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at the DON'T TRY AND BUILD AN ATOMIC BOMB warning < 1311616125 749056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROLLY A BAD IDEA < 1311616922 110564 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311617073 262077 :derrik!~xix@125-11-131-46.internet.emt.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311617583 37952 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311617675 426906 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311618818 806017 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311619122 376210 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311619596 229410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311620097 214453 :JamezQ!~james@c-24-4-176-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311620322 213198 :JamezQ!~james@c-24-4-176-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1311620985 860515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: You've said that, like, exact line before < 1311620994 374715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the misspelling? :D < 1311621007 649451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typo < 1311621158 489143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps :D < 1311621793 902639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should ban cybermutiny from /r/mspaint just to see how e reacts. < 1311621803 695699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's a mod somewhere? O_O < 1311621808 921862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1311621816 741153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the only mod there :P < 1311621825 283495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have taken approximately three moderator actions in my entire tenure < 1311621863 6769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, this cybermutiny guy makes literally almost every post in there and they're mostly to his site thing which is a collection of seemingly inscrutable MS Paint art made by people who were clearly high at the time :-P < 1311621873 339822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind, but it would be amusing if this was, like, his main source of revenue. < 1311621898 119175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's about _actual_ mspaint, not those adventures... < 1311621913 582720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's /r/homestuck, which recently passed /r/mspaint's subscriber count :-( < 1311621935 884817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but /r/homestuck actually sometimes pays off on a subscription, so...) < 1311621947 124873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mind you, /r/mspaint has gotten at least _two_ Homestuck-related submissions in two months < 1311621958 140145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1311621962 79267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both from the cybermutiny guy who doesn't _appear_ to know what they're actually about :D < 1311621984 24161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/mspaint/comments/hdyg7/blue_guy/c1uo7ll < 1311622295 442528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it just me, or is Monte Carlo a fancy name for something that really isn't that fancy? < 1311622308 535553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr it's in contrast to Las Vegas simulation < 1311622319 719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't quite recall what each is, though :P < 1311622412 643422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: are you looking for an instance Eq (IORef a)? < 1311622421 337365 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Don't Quit < 1311622432 649142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me that haddock really should provide source links for orphan instances < 1311622460 372786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or all instances really, so you don't have to check two places < 1311622967 683839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds today's mezzacotta comic strangely amusing
< 1311623028 313165 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311623062 417378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do we allow vegetables in here anyway < 1311623164 305914 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 263 seconds < 1311623308 23985 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it be discrimination not to? < 1311623322 491472 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure pumpkin is a vegetable rather than e.g. a fruit or a berry or something? < 1311623333 522179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but what if he's an enemy plant? < 1311623373 239917 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311623373 607357 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode channel guidelines: "Look for the best in people. If you assume people have no self-control, they'll confirm your belief." < 1311623398 17801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hm better check wikipedia < 1311623404 48794 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311623429 85502 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311623430 789631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The noun vegetable usually means an edible plant or part of a plant other than a sweet fruit or seed. -- However, the word is not scientific, and its meaning is largely based on culinary and cultural tradition." < 1311623435 229497 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it can be anything you want it to be. < 1311623444 756933 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even YOU could be a vegetable. (\forall YOU.) < 1311623477 439868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ancient tradition of vegetarian cannibalism < 1311623602 633579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In culinary terms, both summer and winter squashes are generally considered as vegetables, even though pumpkin may be used for sweet dishes. < 1311623606 12737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311623784 519120 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordNet "hypernyms of pumpkin": < 1311623786 374120 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sense 2 < 1311623786 445821 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pumpkin < 1311623786 499122 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => vegetable, veggie, veg < 1311623786 499318 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => produce, green goods, green groceries, garden truck < 1311623786 499427 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => food, solid food < 1311623787 496796 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => solid < 1311623789 695621 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => matter < 1311623791 410948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => physical entity < 1311623793 391469 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : => entity < 1311623795 448758 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clear vegetable. < 1311623799 421778 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311623828 418669 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nouns quite often tend to end up as "entity", I think. < 1311623861 868864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :entirely so < 1311623972 416750 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordNet can also comprehensively list everything that is a vegetable; wn vegetable -treen => http://p.zem.fi/avpv < 1311624020 763039 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what a losing piece of code: < 1311624022 19272 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wn entity -treen < 1311624022 72198 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyponyms of noun entity < 1311624022 72390 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search too large. Narrow search and try again... < 1311624052 366380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entirety of entity is entirely too enormous. < 1311624076 294806 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The last line was not part of the error message.) < 1311624115 193577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm and you _do_ have the entire database locally? < 1311624129 639947 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311624180 79764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :enticing. < 1311624192 104029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The maximum buffer size is determined by computer platform. If the buffer size is exceeded the following message is printed in the output buffer: "Search too large. Narrow search and try again..."" < 1311624201 168507 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it is the fault of the computer platform. < 1311624225 156624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to change to x86-inf < 1311624479 110106 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If one inputs the word entity as an entry in WordNet 1.6 and try to search its full hyponyms, he will get nothing but a note of "Search too large. Narrow search and try again." provided that he does not narrow the searching by terminating it beforehand. Sure enough, if the entry is not entity but another word, say cat, the searching will probably do." < 1311624479 978983 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Liu Yang, Yu Jiangsheng, Yu Shiwen. A Tree-structure Solution for the Development of ChineseNet. Institute of Computational Linguistics, Dept. of CS, Peking University. Technical Report, 2002. < 1311624487 811547 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have not been the only one interested in entities. < 1311624643 341706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL? < 1311624658 370813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point i'm tempted to create an esolang named haskell. < 1311624666 756774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe C. < 1311624695 118158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: with haskell, the job has been done for you. < 1311624701 435001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...touche. < 1311624715 289510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*é < 1311624727 302253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also C ;-) < 1311624767 653183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Java < 1311624822 554147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm surely APL isn't the first one < 1311625080 328695 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Java2K < 1311625285 761202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah me to but i don't count that < 1311625296 773571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh we have http://esolangs.org/wiki/COBOL < 1311625362 409379 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311625421 968094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311626373 700403 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: over and out < 1311626848 357274 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.21.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311626848 409452 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.21.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311626848 409600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311626926 500567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: ooh, as i'm looking through the language list for other purposes, i think no one has mentioned Paintfuck to you yet... < 1311626941 351680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's some major idling. < 1311626961 227132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell atehwa You might wish to look at Paintfuck < 1311626961 292236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1311626969 582746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1311626977 420064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paintfuck was fun < 1311626984 462990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, uninteresting-looking language < 1311626994 574470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the tiny two-dimensional data plus storage as output... < 1311626997 665275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very CA kind of feel < 1311627060 99689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"increpare: I can parse the code beforehand to detect logical infinite loops. I think they occur as a certain pattern in the code." < 1311627066 945674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the forum paintfuck was on is v. smart < 1311627082 496070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Edit: After I talked furthermore with ehird from #esoteric, it's a saner idea to leave the crash-course as is. so, as I originally said, it's a feature not a bug" < 1311627083 897061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i show the light < 1311627117 167362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1311627120 664439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol's conway is awesome < 1311627154 958937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :conway? < 1311627176 508009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :life < 1311627177 717943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :game < 1311627178 239381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1311627180 326015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in paintfuck < 1311627193 952741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:36:30: i'm testing Haiku < 1311627194 139135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:36:54: and it appears that it is a major shit < 1311627194 287895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:39:07: 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga < 1311627194 340132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i add quotes from three years ago... < 1311627347 10242 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it do it < 1311627411 440343 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice quote < 1311627429 962983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i for one welcome our new log-quoting overlords < 1311627457 839161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [2008] i'm testing Haiku and it appears that it is a major shit 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga < 1311627459 244006 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :545) [2008] i'm testing Haiku and it appears that it is a major shit 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga < 1311627479 393443 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311627536 353364 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311627562 874778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION removes Impossible!
< 1311627588 797133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311627610 721743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nonexisting link from four months ago that was never filled in < 1311627636 110511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the policy is clearly stated at the top of the language list (i should know because i added it) < 1311627701 575373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bold. < 1311627847 745332 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311627866 347067 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311627920 574140 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-245.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311628078 109470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1311628128 692394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a previous deletion orgy, probably. < 1311628195 842185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find no more esolangs named the same as a known (to me) mainstream language. although we do have shakell. < 1311628230 48827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did, anyhow. < 1311628237 93379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: WHERE DID SHAKELL GO < 1311628278 637930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSWER OR I SHALL HAVE TO USE THE POLICY < 1311628284 369596 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311628284 670282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually, anyway. < 1311628442 309410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds it on web archive
< 1311628529 38857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's shakell again < 1311628544 315239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shakell is an esoteric programming language created by SimonRC in 2005. It is mainly inspired by SADOL, but also Unlambda, Lisp and Haskell." < 1311628549 579677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :I wrote the program for my Master’s Thesis (a dynamic programming problem) in Turbo Pascal, so I got good at functional programming. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1311628673 180892 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that for real < 1311628698 518609 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that is the actual topic, yes < 1311628710 924192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceci n'est pas un topic < 1311628757 470756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/07/24/get-started-functional-programming/#comment-94407 < 1311628782 221329 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311628807 420813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is why if you want to make sure no one ever instantiates a class (e.g. library) you not only need to make the constructor private, but also make that constructor throw an exception. I'd recommend UnsupportedOperationException. – ArtB 4 hours ago" < 1311628818 419934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :java is like this big party of assassins < 1311628827 165248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where everyone is REALLY careful not to let anyone else move a muscle out of line < 1311628832 536103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they know < 1311628833 879670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the urge < 1311628835 785857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the urge < 1311628836 722913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to KILL < 1311628842 652504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean construct objects of private classes < 1311628846 493635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1311628866 270542 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :java... < 1311628873 450831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/iz9rh/does_instanceof_void_always_return_false/c27uht9 good < 1311628904 849530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders mentioning twoducks to atehwa. i think it may be zzo38's most memorable language. it's the one _i_ remember, anyway.
< 1311628928 787783 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if someone bytecode-modifies your class when loading and removes the exception? < 1311628955 811340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: arrest them < 1311628972 107375 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: then it is no longer your class and you have nothing to worry about < 1311629014 316258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still has all your author-annotations and whatnot dangling from it. < 1311629058 399607 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :warranty void if exception removed by class loader, except if warranty void message removed by class loader < 1311629119 669511 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311629166 494776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own @ from the early 90's had this idea of black box encryption of algorithms, which would be useful here. sadly in the real world this idea seems to have hit some roadblocks. < 1311629207 330419 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311629211 670311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my own @" I'm glad people can relate to @ in this way < 1311629230 730802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I convince you to try out @ when it's ready? :-P < 1311629233 33203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS NEED CONVERTS < 1311629298 469394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's obviously an idea of "perfect operating system that seems easy if you don't look too closely at how it would work" floating around in the collective geek subconscious. < 1311629315 627125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never expected @ to be easy :-) < 1311629342 38177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more, reading a bit of the Loper blog at the start and then looking at TUNES and going, "oh. guess this is my computing life's work then." < 1311629382 652588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and -- I'm not even sure that's true < 1311629393 489839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many people who think Unix is some kind of perfection < 1311629395 187452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be ready just in time for the singularity. whether caused by or causing, remains to be seen. < 1311629411 154470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who think it's literally impossible to improve on filesystems < 1311629425 613310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, I have to dismiss a lot of my thought trails on @ by going "wait no, that's singularity-level technology" < 1311629432 415164 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does losethos have filesystems i forget < 1311629437 572139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes < 1311629453 676221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: all other OSes just have defilesystems < 1311629454 925257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i had no such qualms as it was essentially a sci-fi fantasy :) < 1311629455 111326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET IT < 1311629461 934156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lucky. < 1311629480 362494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (but I question any kind of "fantasy" that has black box encrypted algorithms running on your computer!) < 1311629483 498507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a dystopia < 1311629512 498837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it also had formal verification < 1311629539 183536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. @ is pretty solidly based around the idea that I don't give a single shit about closed-source software at all and I want to make everything as open and transparent as possible :P < 1311629639 138136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well the idea here was essentially to able to safely move your computations across the cloud even in the possible presence of malicious programs < 1311629682 319734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311629700 983992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not sure the "cloud" concept was invented then though) < 1311629701 37021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (congrats for inventing the obvious about two decades before everyone else, and also actually thinking about the security implications) < 1311629705 19564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1311629729 300439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been late 90s, i'm not quite sure of the timing < 1311629732 214325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm not sure how @'s distributed computing model works... obviously I'd like it to be the same thing as the parallel programming model :) < 1311629792 837724 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange that people think it's impossible to improve on filesystems. < 1311629804 493289 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can even improve on filesystems while retaining the concept. < 1311629845 651421 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, there's not *that* much you can do while retaining the concept of "a chunk of bytes is the only data structure", but hey. < 1311629881 15961 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311629905 366546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sometimes worries that he'll never finish @. and probably everyone else has already filed it under Feather
< 1311629933 796351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1311629937 465458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311629947 146285 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has made bootstrap-linux smaller
< 1311629957 86850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i actually have this _drive_ to make @ happen, though :D < 1311629957 340449 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was able to remove Perl and GNU sed. < 1311629961 320486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quickly, just... at all < 1311629965 495962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you'd need to be an even greater genius than i think you are :P < 1311629969 816275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can't avoid it by NIHing it further as it is The Ultimate < 1311629973 605782 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it only has things sane people would expect! < 1311629982 771874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FLATTERY GOES IN THE OTHER CHANNEL --------> < 1311629990 760291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1311629995 234822 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox, Binutils, GCC, Make, Linux. < 1311630009 459381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Maybe I'll pull a Stanislav and declare a brick to be @ < 1311630011 181861 :CakeProphet!~adam@h248.2.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311630011 235116 :CakeProphet!~adam@h248.2.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311630011 235174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311630013 468738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.loper-os.org/?p=405) < 1311630041 283541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bricks, black boxes, what's the difference. < 1311630045 99076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are a great many other things this amazing silicon device refrains from doing! < 1311630045 151717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, for instance… computing. And yet, it is still a Lisp system!" < 1311630053 361089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I wonder how Stanislav breathes without laughing < 1311630080 822032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not impose an arbitrary order of sub-expression evaluation on programmers. < 1311630082 375869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311630091 479463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Stanislav likes his sub-expressions to be executed in parallel < 1311630108 402775 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i do too < 1311630119 95933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's par for the course < 1311630136 957596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw what was that research you mentioned about automatic parallelisation... :D < 1311630154 20788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mentioned something you didn't already know? < 1311630162 35594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ages ago :P < 1311630177 991260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't haskell-related? < 1311630182 835196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was, I think < 1311630183 397116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (also you manage that whenever oklopol ropes you into discussing mathematics for at least two lines) < 1311630210 913723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i meant related to parallelisation < 1311630219 465894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1311630231 81383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell, for that matter < 1311630359 789296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm despite lexicographic similarity, parallel list comprehensions are not it < 1311630385 56930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's not in ghc directly < 1311630392 433333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it was research stuff < 1311630402 354875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you just said there were no good leads that you knew of :) < 1311630522 461777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it was _old_ i may simply have mentioned the realization that the overhead of fine-grained parallelism is too high for arbitrary automatic parallelization to have worked well in practice < 1311630544 106891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311630554 266876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of feel like that's an artefact of our CPUs :/ < 1311630571 494024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you know the Connection Machine? Feynman worked on it? < 1311630582 133711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only by name < 1311630604 65980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it had tens of tens of thousands of really simple processors with just a few kilobytes of ram each < 1311630617 71892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they operated on like single bits < 1311630624 59401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a hard time believing incredibly-fine-grained parallelism wouldn't pay off on _that_ < 1311630643 934038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but the actual overhead is in the shuffling of work to and from processors, surely. < 1311630657 63975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, certainly < 1311630664 49503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it had optimised routers for that < 1311630671 197100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you could communicate to nearby processors instantly... < 1311630679 84741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are inherently sequential algorithms (e.g. euclid's algorithm) < 1311630684 687356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1311630689 227650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not denying that < 1311630692 572270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean for subexpressions < 1311630699 985968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like you could dedicate a few hundred CPUs in each region to scheduling and let it go < 1311630708 686806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any subexpression that triggers some naive "big" predicate < 1311630727 982491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think the Connection Machine ever really got made again. < 1311630733 297487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the thing is that automatic parallelization works badly with code that isn't "obviously" parallel because it still requires intelligence to find out which parts _are_ parallelizable < 1311630748 210987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311630766 132581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this horrible feeling that it's going to be another super-wacky problem that solves this < 1311630780 734318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like functional programming solved the tangle of effects and dependencies problem < 1311630797 44069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the "lack of higher-order control structures" problem) < 1311630799 945076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1311630803 330170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/super-wacky paradigm/ < 1311630835 67664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the current research afaik is about solving it by making it easy for programmers to write programs in such a way that the parallelizable parts _are_ obviously indicated. < 1311630850 776317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not automatic < 1311630892 290269 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradigm/problem :D multi-paradigm languages should henceforth be multi-problem programming languages < 1311630895 588031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1311630897 323623 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :program with many problems at once < 1311630900 294094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: mo paradigms mo problems < 1311630928 559948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think what I really have to do is continue on my path of a super-scaled-back @ as the short- and medium- and short-long- term goals. < 1311630955 43517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't just let it succumb to inertia on account of having a big unidentified blob at the centre, I have to try and tackle away at it bit by bit < 1311631002 791639 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: 1... 2... 3... HUGS! :D < 1311631008 793498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hug bomb < 1311631017 626115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ghcs elliott
< 1311631026 892627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ghc < 1311631047 372292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was going to make some horribly tasteless joke about norwegians, but decided i'm a better person than that < 1311631055 908514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is just as bad though < 1311631067 21790 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice horribly tasteless joke about norwegians, there < 1311631075 485098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a horribly tasteless norwegian < 1311631076 332586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP < 1311631148 996298 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1311631170 235957 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: keep your jokes fnarfful < 1311631205 561195 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that should be fnarfless, if fnarf is not taste < 1311631254 929505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the other thing i might have mentioned would be http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC/Data_Parallel_Haskell < 1311631278 505519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how can you not know about that < 1311631366 77268 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311631407 145194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1311631502 529621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311632077 460433 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311632139 401544 :CakeProphet!~adam@h112.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311632139 513299 :CakeProphet!~adam@h112.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311632139 565657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311632495 169478 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311632555 434778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311633295 64142 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna start signing my emails "Sent from my Cray X-MP" < 1311633325 310240 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if i can use "Sent from SPACE" < 1311633344 264347 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot. < 1311633671 749947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this message sent from a tiny dust speck in space < 1311633940 529727 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia TOPIC #esoteric :"I wrote the program for my Master’s Thesis (a dynamic programming problem) in Turbo Pascal, so I got good at functional programming." -Robert Edwin Peary, Sr. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1311634162 958022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :turbo pascal can get you to the top of the world < 1311634198 45021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or close to it < 1311634461 89664 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas regular Pascal is barely enough to get you up a moderate hill. < 1311635488 822340 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311636736 526102 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311636884 609428 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ByteString->IO () < 1311636884 701527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString putStr :: ByteString -> IO () < 1311636884 754164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString putStrLn :: ByteString -> IO () < 1311636884 754322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 putStr :: ByteString -> IO () < 1311636898 43511 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Data.ByteString putStrLn < 1311636898 115238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1311636902 747273 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Data.ByteString,putStrLn < 1311636902 817334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. It can only be attributed to human error. < 1311636905 45920 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Data.ByteString.putStrLn < 1311636905 99576 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. There are some things that I just don't know. < 1311636909 607680 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src putStrLn < 1311636909 659551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :putStrLn s = do putStr s; putChar '\n' < 1311636913 932706 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Data.ByteString < 1311636914 41088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. I am sorry. < 1311637237 577427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@package bytestring < 1311637237 669457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring < 1311637316 858875 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i have n regexes, is it possible to compile them all into one optimized thing that will match if either one had matched? < 1311637323 542020 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a big or operator < 1311637433 655256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: @src only has a small subset of sources. use hoogle or hayoo on the web. istr that hayoo searches all of hackage. < 1311637437 317173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list hayoo < 1311637437 389264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No module "hayoo" loaded < 1311637440 450826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311637496 780474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://holumbus.fh-wedel.de/hayoo/hayoo.html#0:putStrLn < 1311637541 744668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that thing above is unlikely to be the ByteString version. although maybe they're identical.) < 1311637577 118823 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are you smart with regex?? < 1311637597 61511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, hayoo's source links are broken. the package name link should still work though. < 1311637635 342742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or module link < 1311637669 163245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: well why not just put | between them? < 1311637758 768268 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they contain | already.. hmm yeah then it works too i guess < 1311637775 599572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's efficiently compiled i assume depends on the regex implementation < 1311637783 977364 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if postgresql regex is compatible with python regex < 1311637786 573848 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i would be god < 1311637800 384291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1311637807 763058 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea me either :-\ < 1311637852 244730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/bytestring/latest/doc/html/src/Data-ByteString.html#putStrLn < 1311637862 204821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :putStrLn = hPutStrLn stdout < 1311637937 890989 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311639491 556018 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311639877 257078 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: one | per pattern plz < 1311639880 513979 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311639967 79475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION detects an off-by-one error :P
< 1311640007 855612 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your mom was off-by-one. < 1311640021 370776 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you guess which one it was? < 1311640040 408503 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311640046 56468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP. < 1311640085 173945 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (implying that you shouldn't have been born, or that you needed another sibling... but that one is less of a sick burn) < 1311640152 728913 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311640154 949975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my parents _were_ married just about a month before i was born. draw your own conclusions. < 1311640200 271880 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't draw. < 1311640208 885627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures. < 1311640284 632330 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though my conclusion is that marriage doesn't matter very much. < 1311640292 317229 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the legal consequences, which matter a lot. < 1311640364 143939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this was in 1970, a time when marriage definitely mattered. < 1311640411 846143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would basically have been unthinkable for them to _plan_ it this way at that time. < 1311640448 711646 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No public logging! What happens in #emacs stays in #emacs " < 1311640450 451134 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :booo1 < 1311640471 480077 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: The .. not actually all that funny stuff is over) < 1311640490 77273 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah. #emacs is a riot. Lots of kinky ASCII porn. < 1311640497 728198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if you want the world to search for your private secrets, tell them in #esoteric. < 1311640569 692817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird my browser locked up but seems to not be using CPU < 1311640585 686902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug. < 1311640631 186760 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of resource bottleneck/deadlock, I guess? < 1311640678 771534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. < 1311640713 179599 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always a possibility that it was a ghost. Perhaps you have a haunted computer < 1311640768 636420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's haunted all right, i just cannot recall this particular failure mode before. < 1311640773 804012 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is the case then you may have a computer capable of hypercomputation. < 1311640818 484571 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :via ghost-power.. kind of like an oracle, but spookier. < 1311641012 331197 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, so doesn't the fact that humans are reasonably effective at solving the halting problem for a given language suggest that it's impossible to replicate human intelligence via Turing-complete computation? < 1311641074 674260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose since we're not perfect at it, and we can't solve it for languages that are unknown to us.. < 1311641087 34785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because we are not reasonably effective at it. < 1311641130 715738 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311641184 488618 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311641188 996854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy to construct problems we cannot solve. things like "loop through even numbers > 2 until you find one which is not the sum of two primes" just more varied. < 1311641321 456597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's see if reloading previous browser session locks it up again. < 1311641384 500701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidence so far is ... hm it moved. < 1311641436 683147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1311641466 676891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's locked up _and_ using CPU. :( < 1311641608 455309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah it was a huge pdf file < 1311642328 553324 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311642710 300765 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311642738 225477 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping < 1311642800 89412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :6uod < 1311642996 626348 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :classy < 1311644618 441235 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero < 1311644632 474549 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311644654 579002 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311644937 648511 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311645488 538815 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161150.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311645719 736172 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311645741 518608 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311646273 736419 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129212.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311647227 699078 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311647362 530499 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311647972 722141 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311648425 901984 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311648628 345516 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 120 seconds. < 1311648628 907968 :javawizard!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 NICK :jcp < 1311648663 723420 :jcp|other!~alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311648799 326393 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311648863 777662 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229129212.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311649103 677651 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311649630 168886 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311649688 797825 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311649714 699877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, we have been unclogged! < 1311650034 485708 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :draino < 1311650044 693390 :draino!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grins
< 1311650051 699787 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info NICK :Rainbow_Dash < 1311650064 63795 :draino!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311650068 934780 :Rainbow_Dash!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info NICK :Nisstyre < 1311650080 978661 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311650165 526108 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311650203 652593 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311650348 199800 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone mentioned that my optimization/compression problem was related to LZW. I don't know for sure. < 1311650484 46840 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311651460 982192 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any other literate programs exist that can help with my problem? < 1311651802 351360 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1311653124 531138 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone please shed some light on http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/izm57/what_do_you_consider_to_be_the_greatest_unsolved/c27z4vt?context=3 ? < 1311653222 792770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"selectable as an axiom, or counter-axiom" _implies_ unprovable. < 1311653266 776834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and true & false applies to _models_, not axiomatic theories. < 1311653298 162896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, by godel's completeness theorem, if something is unprovable, then it is false in some model. < 1311653327 116431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :provable <=> true in all models < 1311653364 148843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(models of the given axioms) < 1311653367 644658 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I understand less now < 1311653408 102571 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, that must be an illusion, generated by an unperceived lack of understanding, yada yada) < 1311653412 349263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, (1) the continuum hypothesis _is_ independent. this means that it is (2) not provable, _and_ (3) not disprovable. < 1311653443 539626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) again is equivalent to it being false in some model of the rest of set theory < 1311653458 180900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) then is equivalent to it being false in some model etc. < 1311653497 546691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wat < 1311653508 318045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(3) then is equivalent to it being _true_ in some model etc. < 1311653523 92018 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what' are "true but unprovable" statements for a system of axioms? < 1311653530 320086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does that not apply to CH? < 1311653571 255063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing, truth only applies _inside_ a model of the axioms, unless it holds for _all_ models, in which case its provable. < 1311653633 124860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :models here technically mean set theoretic models, which may be a little circular for this particular question < 1311653650 192982 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you post some of this on reddit? < 1311653664 272499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still have no account < 1311653730 340958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm or are you referring to that "this assumption is widely believed to be true." < 1311653768 86280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the only instance of "true" in what you responded to < 1311653811 169969 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that refers to a different kind of truth than the truth of the continuum hypothesis < 1311653868 181544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it refers to whether ZF is consistent, which is believed to be true presumably because it's intuitive and no one has managed to construct an inconsistency < 1311653948 580417 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's not what I was referring to < 1311653991 879727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, this means that the consistency of ZF is itself believed to be a true but unprovable statement. < 1311654090 226882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we know that _if_ it is true then it is unprovable, by godel's _in_completeness theorems) < 1311654107 888715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gödel < 1311654115 547121 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like scientific theories, one can only disprove the consistency of an axiomatic system. < 1311654167 183010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: well unless you prove it in a stronger system. < 1311654186 177654 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Yes. < 1311654206 945667 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that leaves it still in doubt, because the stronger system itself could be inconsistent. :) < 1311654260 508488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not entirely sure if there are some systems weaker than peano arithmetic (weak enough not to allow godel's proof) but still expressive enough to talk about their own consistency, and then maybe prove it. < 1311654274 171361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall hearing of any examples < 1311654371 409008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since "expressive enough to talk about their own consistency" is _approximately_ what you seem to need to get godel's proof in the first place < 1311654571 828850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a kind of "intended model of natural numbers" which people end up referring to when speaking about the latter kind of truth. < 1311654612 876896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a model no one can know what is, since it has no complete axiomatization. < 1311655530 285336 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311655710 687583 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-220.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311656546 658061 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311658299 178127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh nerdgasm http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/07/were_going_to_see_a_black_hole.php < 1311658368 91678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at the end) < 1311658495 993792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although you need the rest to understand _why_ it's so cool < 1311658497 543203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1311659444 354425 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why only radio waves? < 1311659455 387074 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's special about radio waves that that technique works so well? < 1311659503 809749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311659575 438673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's because their frequency is so low that ordinary circuitry can handle them... < 1311659631 805151 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a Star Trek fan fic in some anthrology that had some sattelite that moved around the galaxy < 1311659689 107864 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/What_Went_Through_Data%27s_Mind_0.68_Seconds_Before_the_Satellite_Hit < 1311659752 28437 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that the limiting factor on that technique is data storage and/or bandwidth. < 1311659784 190569 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And radio frequencies are just about pushing the upper limit on that. < 1311659846 840786 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311659855 949784 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah there had to be something in the comments to make it less awesome :( < 1311659917 674164 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm? < 1311659951 34669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :george monser calculates that the event horizon will only occupy a couple of pixels... < 1311660066 765709 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "a couple", you mean "1 or 2" < 1311660068 437573 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :/ < 1311660908 526064 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a good summary of them reasons why it works for radio in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_synthesis < 1311660914 596846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aperture synthesis is possible only if both the amplitude and the phase of the incoming signal is measured by each telescope. For radio frequencies, this is possible by electronics, while for optical lights, the elecromagnetic field cannot be measured directly and correlated in software, but must be propagated by sensitive optics and interfered optically. < 1311660920 989462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accurate optical delay and atmospheric wavefront aberration correction is required, a very demanding technology which became possible only in the 1990s. This is why imaging with aperture synthesis has been used successfully in radio astronomy since the 1950s and in optical/infrared astronomy only since the 2000 decade." < 1311660955 133435 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more obvious article ("astronomical interferometer") is far less concise. < 1311661296 595441 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, magic. < 1311661526 152675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :smangic (official term from comments :P) < 1311661725 455138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the reddit comments, that is) < 1311662486 794531 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311662503 846118 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311663044 858258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311663572 260674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311663634 38643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311663810 192643 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311666098 627951 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311666184 2085 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzj1OF7d9m4 It's somewhat amusing seeing people enter a Walmart for the first time. < 1311666211 659067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever been to a Walmart < 1311666227 799225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't exist under that name in the UK, and the supermarkets owned by them probably don't operate much like their US equivalents < 1311666252 864731 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can purchase just about everything in a Walmart. < 1311666270 571617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I can tell I was tired last night < 1311666274 956087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I wrote the following line of code: if ((htole32(rv) & 0xffff) == 0x80cd) < 1311666278 555025 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shy of, like, a car, or lumber, or something... < 1311666301 367268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rv is a long that has been read from a process's text segment) < 1311666321 522294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can buy firewood in petrol stations, in the UK < 1311666333 867542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure why it's stocked there, it just sort-of became traditional < 1311666343 276448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't get it anywhere else, because everyone knows you go to petrol stations to get it < 1311666353 830231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it makes sense to have one sort of shop for selling every type of fuel < 1311666364 864871 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That actually makes rather a lot of sense. < 1311666400 182434 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that here in America, we believe in having one sort of shop for selling every type of thing. < 1311666424 615965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you can't easily fit those onto street corners < 1311666447 528826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK, the trend recently has been to have small supermarkets, that sell just things that people would buy frequently, fitting into relatively small areas < 1311666454 504266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they're big-name supermarkets rather than corner shops < 1311666484 435513 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a non-issue when your urban design is based around the idea of having a 50 acre parking lot in front of a 40 acre store. < 1311666508 510346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, umm, you'd need a car just to drive to the supermarket < 1311666512 677259 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311666537 569485 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what auto ownership rates are like? < 1311666552 545800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a small supermarket within a minute's walk at all the places I tend to be (work, home, etc) < 1311666569 78994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this reminds me, I only have two days left on my bus pass < 1311666578 298708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I buy it for several months at a time) < 1311666596 301397 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Freakishly*, I happen to be about a mile away from a supermarket. < 1311666626 582497 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an exceptionally short distance for anything to be. < 1311666673 744547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, indeed < 1311666685 845605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that the UK has a huge population density compared to most places in the word < 1311666687 530894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*world < 1311666698 174005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I discovered today that London has a substantially greater population than Norway, which surprised me < 1311666736 808497 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think in *this* case it's just the US having fairly low population density. < 1311666794 416026 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outside of the major population centers, you could without much trouble be at least a mile away from anyone else. < 1311666798 929285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it varies a lot by state, I think < 1311666805 128700 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, it does. < 1311666865 626629 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Everyone has cars, and there's a lot of space, so there's no incentive to make dense, walkable cities. < 1311666963 402038 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :supz < 1311667122 435225 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i've always found it crazy how spread out everything in usa is < 1311667141 431705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if you had dense, walkable cities, you wouldn't have to use cars < 1311667172 791825 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. And if we didn't already have to use cars, we would have reason to have dense, walkable cities. < 1311667194 505755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311667198 902370 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: that's silly, it doesn't work like that < 1311667200 201154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even not needing a car for some things is a benefit < 1311667211 416302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it takes me a couple of hours to walk to work, so I generally need to take a bus < 1311667224 249076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if, say, I want to buy food, or go to the bank, that's within reasonable walking distance < 1311667224 550677 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't help that the car companies bought up all the public transit and ruined it in the early 1900s. < 1311667242 687195 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: nowadays people need to commute, it's a requirement of our way of life. it takes a special dedication for someone not to commute at all. < 1311667250 183028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the public services are moderately ruined here < 1311667255 70267 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :even i have to commute every now and then. < 1311667258 412556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even so, they're still cheaper than cars, by a factor of about 2 < 1311667273 167153 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can find pretty much anything within walking distance. < 1311667279 500063 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do the opportunity costs on that look like? < 1311667286 290525 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bus that goes by here runs twice a day. < 1311667306 856725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a popular bus route, it's about once per 15 minutes offpeak, and once every 5 minutes or so at rush hour < 1311667314 137193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the least popular bus routes generally run once an hour < 1311667326 398720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tend to be pretty accurate with their timings, and have easily memorizable timetables < 1311667350 864268 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only seen that performance in the handful of dense, relatively walkable cities. < 1311667362 639685 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in london the important ones even run once an hour at night < 1311667375 268371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used to do that in Birmingham too < 1311667377 926484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't any more < 1311667377 998237 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, the buses are utterly unusable. < 1311667387 80370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, they just stop a little past midnight, and start up again at 5am < 1311667395 2658 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the point that it would be quicker to walk. < 1311667404 887499 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: london isn't walkable at all. you're most likely to work within 40 minutes of commuting from where you live. < 1311667406 573035 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a land where it can be 8 miles to the grocery store. < 1311667435 528039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, unlike utilities, workplaces tend to be rather further away < 1311667446 910835 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: Only 40? < 1311667461 45077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in London, people generally use the Tube, even though it's really bad for medium-length distances (you can spend as long going down and up to reach it, as you would walking along the surface) < 1311667469 138729 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like being within walking distance of stuff < 1311667480 756075 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's the usual yes < 1311667491 335882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Birmingham, the train seems most common if you live near a train line (which I do, but it's only about 30% likely), or the bus otherwise < 1311667498 830088 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's 40 minutes each way < 1311667499 63048 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: Impressive in such a highly-populated city. < 1311667504 887143 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: Yes, I know. < 1311667527 586481 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, funnily enough the "last mile" is the most expensive.. the tube itself usually takes a fraction of the time, but takes you the longest way < 1311667536 371211 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311667563 239182 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH the tube makes you ill and deaf, so i don't like it. < 1311667564 670357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: did you know that the escalators that reach the Tube system in London run about twice as fast as escalators elsewhere in the UK, such that they need a little practice to use safely? < 1311667577 284312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an attempt to cut down on that effect < 1311667610 890821 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's a rush, i like the escalators < 1311667627 934253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they also tell tourists/people who don't know what they're doing to keep to one side, so that they don't block the commuters from running up/down the escalators in the direction they're going to get places even faster) < 1311667639 656563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like them too; I've been to London often enough that I know how to use them < 1311667654 237011 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in brixton you have an escalator that starts out almost right at the entrance and goes all the way to the platform < 1311667661 309137 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's like 2-3 stories high < 1311667685 418917 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bizzare. A bunch of webchat idiots were in both #chicken and #jesus < 1311667689 767270 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, people have to yield if they're not on the side < 1311667693 332369 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in #chicken anymore they banned webchat users < 1311667706 49176 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what's #chicken and why is this combination bizarre? < 1311667728 186403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... just a really weird combination for a bunch of people to be present in, imo < 1311667779 143973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311667786 407791 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: Presumably Chicken Scheme. < 1311667809 222442 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the transit system in berlin was very shitty < 1311667814 14031 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get anywhere < 1311667819 962920 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :in munich it's much better < 1311667830 721785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311667832 579554 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :munich also has a much higher population density, it's like zone 3 in london < 1311667840 654719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably doesn't help that the transit system in Berlin spent a few decades having to work around the Wall. < 1311667867 986986 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What I thought was a bit strange was that the tube walkways had all these "keep to the right" signs, yet you drive cars on the wrong side of the road. < 1311667869 23995 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, berlin transit is pretty much ubahn and sbahn, it has nothing to do with the wall. < 1311667888 80584 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311667895 98849 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the roads were build before the wall, so that's no problem either. < 1311667903 406964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the reason you drive on the left is that most people are right-handed, so you can get onto your horse from the sidewalk without your sword getting in the way < 1311667914 183390 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except they couldn't do much improvement on them. < 1311667917 187220 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But why do you walk on the right, then? < 1311667928 755957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the walk on the left/right seems arbitrary < 1311667935 673609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because people naturally go right when faced with obstacles < 1311667939 208912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they can attack them more easily < 1311667972 493454 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's wrong, it's the usual on rhd roads for slow cars to be on the right side < 1311667983 407477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rhd roads"? < 1311667994 972633 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right-hand drive? < 1311667996 601219 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i meant lhd roads < 1311668004 677756 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "normal driving side" < 1311668018 198168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general rule in all road systems I've seen, in a range of countries, is that slow cars are adjacent to the sidewalk/pavement, fast cars nearer the centre < 1311668034 400763 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How optimistic of you. < 1311668043 213392 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's one way for the british to admit imperial arbitrations are failing and they need to make themselves compatible with the rest of the world < 1311668073 614961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow cars are inevitably side-by-side and going the same speed. < 1311668082 599265 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've also noticed another funny imperial/metric thing < 1311668093 931319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Hungary, motorways don't have slip roads; instead, the speed limit on the rightmost lane (it's drive-on-the-right) gets reduced gradually to a very slow speed, then it just has a normal junction with another road, then it gets increased more quickly back up to full motorway speed again < 1311668096 189472 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Driving past a "Slow Traffic Keep Right — It's The Law!" sign. < 1311668148 247271 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can also buy firewood from (many) petrol stations in Finland, too. It feels logical. < 1311668163 351892 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sell "that sort of stuff". < 1311668184 93174 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is that the Schuko is specified in inches, whereas BS 1363 is specified in meters. how crazy is that? < 1311668194 79397 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the bizarro world of electric engineering < 1311668196 871255 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also coals for barbequeueing. < 1311668202 331695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in the UK, slow cars in the inside lanes generally get mown down by lunatics < 1311668212 390694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really an ideal way of enforcing the law, but it works moderately well < 1311668217 358120 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have no idea how happy that idea makes me. < 1311668218 993300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lorries are banned from the inside lane in a motorway < 1311668237 65903 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, that makes me ecstatic. < 1311668241 589333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you're not meant to keep to the inside lane except to overtake, but people do it anyway (keeping in the middle lane is fine) < 1311668265 366065 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you ever lived in hungary? < 1311668278 82791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: only for a week < 1311668290 907056 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it makes lots of sense since the items you use for barbecue are of petrochemical origin. < 1311668292 198811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't speak more than a couple of words of Hungarian, and they're mostly ones that can easily be inferred < 1311668302 731040 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i am learning italian now. < 1311668306 617253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can pronounce it pretty well (it's a phonetic language, so it can be pronounced even without knowing what the words mean) < 1311668320 165740 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :People here generally tend to return to the outer lines after overtaking, at least on "proper" highways as opposed to these in-city things, but of course our roads aren't usually very busy. < 1311668321 303167 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering if i should translate the source of the latest program to italian < 1311668396 51823 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would they do that with the Schuko and BS 1363? < 1311668410 130983 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense at all! < 1311668456 992621 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: Maybe it has something to do with how soda is sold by the liter in the US? < 1311668557 962237 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, more likely Germany just wanted to fuck with us. < 1311668572 194580 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no freaking idea < 1311668589 339329 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the british make the BS1363 metric then? < 1311668604 47471 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311668629 153124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1311668630 888381 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1311668701 736534 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The British have a well-documented propensity for fucking with people. < 1311668729 574007 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all very weird < 1311668844 562263 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, BS1363 isn't metric. < 1311668898 309396 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/4 inch wide by 5/32 inch high pins aren't metric. :) < 1311668933 353958 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've measured one, it's spot-on metric < 1311668941 751417 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me measure another one < 1311668960 464302 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have retroactively assigned it to 6.35mm by 3.975mm. < 1311668985 34932 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though a more round 6.25mm by 3.9mm would be within tolerances. < 1311669019 986108 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which are ±0.13mm and ±0.075mm) < 1311669237 698856 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if Schuko was also retroactively metricized; Wikipedia lists the pin separation at "19 mm", which is 0.748 inches, suspiciously close to 3/4. < 1311669277 86204 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that seems quite plausible. < 1311669349 150741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard pin spacing in electronics, if you're assembling the circuit by hand, is a deciinch < 1311669364 42889 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the name of not-confusing-you, the US's connector, NEMA 1 or 6, is non-metric. < 1311669366 735166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I think that needs a diaeresis < 1311669370 439745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deciïnch < 1311669385 228581 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, 5. < 1311669387 427068 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not 6. < 1311669421 440864 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i've measured three < 1311669427 121570 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NEMA is a group of electrical socket standards; only 1 and 5 are in common domestic use. 1 is ungrounded, 5 is grounded.) < 1311669468 749943 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are closer to metric-like, some are closer to imperial-like, however in all three the longer dimension of the base of the small pins (the ones carrying hot and neutral) are spot-on 6 mm! < 1311669549 577343 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what you're saying is that they're way out of spec in the name of metric? :P < 1311669564 394326 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311669571 968730 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it might be so < 1311669602 706815 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be 6.35±0.13mm. < 1311669623 884525 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely not 6.2 or more. < 1311670217 749851 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder.. why do more people not use banner style indent? it's so confenient < 1311670249 384597 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTBS seems to be the prevalent one, but it makes no sense in braceless languages.. and even in braced languages, once i started using it, it makes much more sense < 1311670334 725040 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the braced languages, OTBS is perceived as being part of the syntax. < 1311670357 462348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's banner indent? < 1311670410 392534 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The closing bracket is at the same indent level as the previous statements. < 1311670414 904428 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is ( < 1311670418 908894 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : banner, < 1311670421 196069 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : indent, < 1311670424 328619 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : style. < 1311670425 766876 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1311670431 45945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1311670431 696986 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that. < 1311670449 16133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting the closing bracket on the same line as the last statement makes more sense than that < 1311670456 93265 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used to do that < 1311670456 189036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find myself doing that more and more nowadays < 1311670456 755310 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's lisp style < 1311670459 447222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311670474 477288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use Lisp, but any writing out of ASTs by hand is going to end up with huge numbers of stacked parens < 1311670476 203022 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like it because the closing can get lost < 1311670479 486834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've been doing that quite a bit < 1311670486 885069 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you concatenate < 1311670489 624278 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1311670492 845013 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is ([ < 1311670498 305540 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : banner, < 1311670500 362261 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : style, < 1311670501 986881 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : too. < 1311670503 684974 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : ]) < 1311670571 35794 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started using it because, well, in python basically you have very few situations where you actually have braces, and i was using that for a long time < 1311670593 799927 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i've had some heavy bash-style projects and using OTBS for the fi and done and so on just didn't make sense, so i started using banner style for that < 1311670609 862969 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i noticed that it also applies to python, when you're using multiple lines for function calls etc < 1311670612 339765 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely *nothing* in Bourne makes sense. < 1311670615 585584 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with that, sleep. < 1311672429 451593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, this web page about Unicode is really hard to read, because it sprinkles Unicode everywhere gratuitously because it can < 1311672440 584178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my browser interprets the encoding fine, but my fonts are missing many of the characters in question < 1311674008 345540 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311674052 176562 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-213-174.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311674068 762055 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-167-249.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311674595 825977 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just downloaded some crappy card game program < 1311674607 233586 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it, there's an option for setting the random seed < 1311674614 169576 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That.... sounds abusable < 1311674739 463976 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311674769 904859 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also quite common. Doesn't the Windows-bundled FreeCell also allow it? (With the old one having 32000 possible games, of which all but one are solvable, or something like that.) < 1311674791 766180 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Barbu is not a single player game < 1311674827 749091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well, that's rather different. < 1311674845 569558 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Xua00.png < 1311674903 320908 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the prettiest dialog ever. < 1311675081 131419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311675277 407658 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311675347 320225 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, it's annoying having to use webchat on the wired connection here < 1311675365 863796 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the CAPTCHA requires unblacklisting script from Google < 1311675399 782367 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, I found a NoScript setting that lets me turn off a temporary-allow without reloading the page, so that I can have Google blocked except when typing the CAPTCHA < 1311675441 403424 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you had a reasonably perfect reality simulation... would you have to follow real world patent laws? :D < 1311675466 34089 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg.. is it illegal to build a patented device from physical space in a virtual space < 1311675508 975237 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the courts will have fun with that one oneday < 1311675659 149235 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311675782 58503 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311675891 336509 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.. perhaps the mystery of society is that society is a living list composed of beings who are theoretically equal but actually cardinal < 1311675913 800114 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is their dire burden to organize that list among themselves < 1311675927 392725 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the good of themselves and the good of the list < 1311675976 137948 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311676323 493288 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1311676356 218022 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1311676381 635745 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi clog < 1311677333 231053 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311678183 881879 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win < 1311678193 293058 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just fixed a bug in a C++ standard library using the unary + operator < 1311678676 149133 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there set theories with non-linear order relations on cardinality? < 1311678694 425756 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what does the unary + operator do again? < 1311678703 501188 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes something positive? < 1311678723 830343 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: does nothing except perform integral promotion < 1311678729 470106 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, in this case, was exactly what I needed < 1311678781 714779 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is integral promotion? < 1311678882 7848 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it can be used to force widening from smaller integral types to int, or ensure that an expression's result is treated as an rvalue and therefore not compatible with a non-const reference parameter. I submit, however, that these uses are better suited to code golf than readability < 1311678904 279480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that this is C++, if it's not a primitive type, you can never know what the unary + will do to it. < 1311678934 384191 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I wrote this earlier: if ((htole32(rv) & 0xffff) == 0x80cd) < 1311678942 485878 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was very tired, the line of code makes no sense in all sorts of ways < 1311678950 145640 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311678952 695659 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: true < 1311678961 831835 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: can you imply what's going on there from context? < 1311678973 373261 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, imply the context from the code? < 1311678980 205914 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311678993 654763 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you're checking the low bits < 1311679016 432848 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the most obvious bug is that I don't htole16 the 0x80cd < 1311679030 595378 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not checking the low bits, I'm checking the first two bytes of rv < 1311679037 270319 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why there's a byte order conversion there < 1311679055 65371 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is, the read command I have always reads four bytes at a time on x86 (eight on x86_64) < 1311679055 815656 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311679089 300521 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more subtle bug is, that CD 80 is an x86-specific asm instruction, so I may as well just hardcode the endianness because the code wouldn't work anyway on a different processor < 1311679097 223678 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just feels wrong to hardcode something like that < 1311679101 637334 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha < 1311679112 810770 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't know why I'm uneasy about hardcoding endianness, but not about hardcoding literal machine code < 1311679122 731493 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, it in fact looked like an x86 opcode, but I hadn't managed to find the list fast enough. < 1311679158 697244 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD is interrupt, right? < 1311679159 25833 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps so that if it gets ported to another processor, I can just copy the code, changing the machine code, and it won't break even if it happens to be big-endian < 1311679162 254141 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311679170 507215 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on Linux, CD 80 = syscall < 1311679184 998384 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a separate syscall instruction? < 1311679197 561048 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syscall instruction is int 0x80 < 1311679217 489534 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's a single instruction which means "do syscall", it's done via the interrupt vector as interrupts get you into kernel mode < 1311679245 411405 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a syscall instruction on newer processors < 1311679249 482201 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's both "syscall" and "sysenter", from AMD and Intel. < 1311679252 380052 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a trick in this code that I only discovered by stracing strace < 1311679252 575005 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: aargh < 1311679255 237978 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Linux actually use it? < 1311679259 699306 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yesish < 1311679260 204024 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, I'll have to look up its machine code too < 1311679265 825361 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On x86-64 it at least is used. < 1311679272 76771 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code's 32-bit specific < 1311679278 452880 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: The 'correct' way to syscall on a modern Linux machine is by jumping into linux-gate.so < 1311679283 389393 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may port it to 64-bit someday, but it involves naming individual registers < 1311679287 542255 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm not trying to make a syscall, though < 1311679300 552166 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a magic shared library loaded into memory by the kernel at a fixed address which contains the syscall instruction, selected by processor to be whatever is fastest < 1311679307 532738 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to, when a different process makes a syscall, wind its IP back a bit and change its registers so it makes another syscall < 1311679338 152244 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up replacing read() and write() with state machines, they can make up to five syscalls to emulate what read() and write() normally do < 1311679339 118751 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1311679340 553726 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all in the name of determinism < 1311679355 157016 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-gate.so has some magic < 1311679369 471493 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, more magic's the last thing I need, I have enough of that stuff already in here < 1311679412 294579 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lkml.org/lkml/2002/12/18/218 < 1311679423 737972 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already accessing a file via /proc/*/fd because that's the only accessible name for it on the system < 1311679453 786061 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh wow, that's useful < 1311679458 143046 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux just subtracts two from the IP too? < 1311679473 856957 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means that all the testing to see if I can get away with subtracting 2 from the IP is unnecessary < 1311679492 562849 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311679515 246278 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.trilithium.com/johan/2005/08/linux-gate/ < 1311679564 189353 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so /that's/ what VDSO stands for < 1311679565 625183 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortuitously sysenter's also two bytes long. < 1311679566 684560 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd been wondering < 1311679571 125112 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't seem to matter < 1311679576 189310 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was curious < 1311679613 983269 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it also tells me how to get at auxv < 1311679627 198571 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel initializes part of it with 16 random bytes, I need to go and make them deterministic again < 1311679711 992866 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't help that the auxiliary vector is undocumented, and referenced only in the ELF loader < 1311679727 359824 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've been grepping kernel sources far too much for this project) < 1311679831 877355 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Anyway, do you actually need to mangle the EIP there? Isn't it just enough to do PTRACE_SYSCALL, then on the syscall entry stop just PTRACE_SETREGS the arguments and the syscall number to what you want and the PTRACE_SYSCALL again to get to the exit point? Why do you need to re-execute the actual instruction? < 1311679847 16976 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because I need to replace one syscall with five < 1311679858 470796 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311679867 256509 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing one with one is easy, and doesn't require redoing syscall instructions at all < 1311679924 478776 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not quite a simple 1-with-5, either; it's actually replacing 1 with 1, 2, 4, or 5, depending on return values, which is why I need the state machine) < 1311680029 113078 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should borrow strace's trick for ptracing child processes and still letting the parent get a wait() notification < 1311680039 185530 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it basically works by anticipating when the child's about to exit, and detaching just in time) < 1311680064 411677 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already borrowed its trick for replacing fork with sys_clone so that the child can be traced too < 1311680082 362838 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using an argument pattern that's documented, but not available via the clone(2) wrapper) < 1311680138 927561 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: It sounds like it should be possible to replace that one syscall with something that is configurable enough so that you can hook whatever complicated code you need to do at the other end of it, but maybe I won't start guessing without knowing the details. < 1311680141 256901 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(All this assuming you wish to stay strictly on the userland side.) < 1311680166 102159 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd write a kernel module if I had to, but I don't think it's necessary < 1311680190 1642 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I may as well explain what I'm doing in Stage 1 of the project (which is likely the hardest stage): trying to create a framework for running programs in a completely reproducable way < 1311680209 219258 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that given the same input, you get the same output, even if the program does something bizarre like catting /dev/random or printing out the values of pointers < 1311680217 964366 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or counting pagefaults < 1311680284 537204 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember to account for accessing the processor performance counters with the RDTSC opcode. (Though it's possible that's a privileged operation? Or maybe not. It's supposed to be rather low-overhead.) < 1311680305 657444 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not < 1311680325 758318 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ouch, you can do that? < 1311680337 593817 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to just hope that code doesn't do that < 1311680345 193627 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-stepping every instruction is intolerably slow < 1311680363 936824 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it breaks on SMP systems, IIRC, and programs tend to avoid it for that reason < 1311680685 945533 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I introduced another person to the inability to decide on a language that is my life < 1311680693 371932 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what do virtualisation programs do about RDTSC? < 1311680714 183597 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pick PHP, that way at least you can be certain you made the wrong choice < 1311680913 549191 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: At least the AMD-V hardware virtualization system lets you do an "instruction intercept" for RDTSC. < 1311680928 611812 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it's doing full software emulation it can of course do whatever. < 1311680946 384630 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'm hoping to avoid having to do full software emulation < 1311681078 277887 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice if this worked for arbitrary programs, but I mostly just want to get the subset that people actually use working < 1311681092 867315 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, cat almost works, I'm just missing deterministic support for open < 1311681095 860725 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hardware virtualization systems would probably let you control everything, but you probably can't do that from a user-mode process (at least VirtualBox needs the vboxdrv module, which I think does something related) and it would be a lot more complicated than just some system-call trapping. < 1311681102 730392 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311681114 940665 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can singlestep, but not stop on instructions of your choice < 1311681141 9513 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about setting a breakpoint everywhere that looked like a RDTSC instruction? does setting breakpoints on data do anything? < 1311681159 430184 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's implemented by replacing instructions, it wouldn't work in case it overwrote data or a misaligned instruction < 1311681162 212100 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311681170 111479 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow I think it's implemented a safer way < 1311681172 173684 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might run out of (hardware) breakpoints. < 1311681195 387638 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes < 1311681199 302115 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd have to be hardware breakpoints < 1311681203 221966 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many do you get? < 1311681221 840436 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to do all this stuff without really knowing what I'm doing < 1311681313 507924 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's something so wrong about typing "strace strace", even though there's no obvious reason why it wouldn't chain < 1311681357 729704 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are four breakpoint control registers, but I don't know anything about any kernel interfaces for accessing that stuff. < 1311681378 238998 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice one in the list of syscalls < 1311681383 888645 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll just go download gdb source, and look there < 1311681417 925933 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to suggest that. < 1311681443 982406 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, apt-get source is hanging, presumably because it's using the wrong proxy < 1311681477 98830 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some undocumented features in the x86(-64) hardware breakpoint system which lets it do... I forgot what it was, some form of data-dependent breakpointing in hardware that's not officially supported. < 1311681516 568966 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311681518 432110 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since they depend on hardware resources, hardware breakpoints may be limited in number; when the user asks for more, GDB will start trying to set software breakpoints. (On some architectures, notably the 32-bit x86 platforms, GDB cannot alsways know whether there's enough hardware resources to insert all the hardware breakpoints and watchpoints. On those platforms, GDB prints an error message only when the program being debugged is continued.)" < 1311681525 81936 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311681532 139973 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll download it with Firefox instead < 1311681542 82975 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GDB's "software breakpoints" are based on opcode replacement. < 1311681547 814676 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent off for a new AC adapter for my laptop < 1311681552 926586 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :opcode replacement definitely won't work < 1311681556 428874 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waited a couple of weeks < 1311681568 41034 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they sent me the wrong thing < 1311681596 726963 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311681621 210896 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You should be writing for a Harvard arch, then you could freely replace opcodes without worrying about messing up data. < 1311681634 717269 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh < 1311681662 243836 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can actually tell where the text, rodata and bss segments were in the executable, by looking at mmap < 1311681667 999342 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, /proc/*/maps < 1311681694 28040 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can save on required breakpoints somewhat by only setting them in executable segments < 1311681698 368447 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moving them around on every call to mprotect < 1311681763 988824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RDTSC problem might not be very important in practice, at least for "sensible" programs. I think it's mostly used as a high-precision timer for "interactive" things, and even there it's a bit discouraged practice since it's not a monotonic clock in a SMP system, so well-behaved programs should be using the OS interfaces instead. < 1311681799 559283 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a high-precision timer for interactive things is exactly the sort of thing I need to stabilise < 1311681807 423857 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time is one of the hardest things to get reproducible < 1311681835 932001 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, anyone know how to modify a file's inode change time? as far as I can tell, the only way to do so is to set the system clock, change the inode, then put the system clock back again, and that's obviously ridiculous < 1311681851 630158 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll just pretend it's equal to the modification time on read, much simpler that way < 1311681884 481048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Unmount, manipulate bits, remount. :p < 1311681899 927151 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fs I'm using isn't backed by an actual device < 1311681902 346437 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a tempfs < 1311681915 581488 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is mounted in a separate namespace so that, from the point of view of other processes, it can't be named < 1311681952 504350 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except by going through /proc < 1311681972 329444 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other way round, there's no way to name files on the main system's file system at all, except by breaking a chroot, which is exactly what I want) < 1311681987 652940 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's an actual interface for setting the ctime, though. You may need to just fake the value returned by stat. < 1311682008 827870 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that seems simplest < 1311682021 19987 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or use a FUSE filesystem instead of a tmpfs.) < 1311682024 891022 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suspect it's partly because setting the ctime should, logically, update the ctime to the current time immediately afterwards) < 1311682042 296635 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a tmpfs because it's there, and it's convenient < 1311682110 410402 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has almost the right semantics < 1311682196 188951 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the ptrace manpage made me wonder what exactly is the difference between PTRACE_SYSCALL and PTRACE_SYSEMU. Is it just that the latter doesn't stop at syscall exit, the assumption being that you're not going to actually perform a syscall as the child but instead fake it in the tracing parent and return the results directly? < 1311682226 344370 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PTRACE_SYSEMU basically changes the int 0x80 (or sysenter) into a nop < 1311682231 379093 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1311682238 300125 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel doesn't do the syscall, just leaves the registers as they are < 1311682267 627713 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I need to remove a syscall, I can do so by changing orig_eax to some nonimplemented number on the call, then changing the return value from -ENOSYS to whatever I want on the return < 1311682289 640224 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't needed to do that yet, but suspect I may end up having to at some point < 1311682318 674138 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you want PTRACE_SYSCALL since you want to execute your syscalls as if the child were calling them, instead of just faking them in the tracing process. < 1311682324 850606 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311682336 214396 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because you can emulate SYSEMU with SYSCALL, but not vice versa < 1311682346 177318 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the vast majority (well, more than half) of syscalls go through unchanged < 1311682379 36732 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, do you know of any way to interrupt a long sleep (like select(NULL, NULL, NULL, 100000);)? < 1311682396 910792 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried any methods yet; I'm hoping that it works to send SIGTRAP to the process, then use ptrace to replace it with SIG_0 < 1311682424 567245 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory that should cause the select to keep on going, but I doubt it can because there was an actual signal there < 1311682434 350674 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sending signals sounds likely to work, that's what usually breaks long-running syscalls. < 1311682464 380804 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the solution is likely to involve signals somehow < 1311682471 43935 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the man pages say that they're only interrupted by handled signals < 1311682490 872459 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that seems inaccurate, as you'd expect, say, an unhandled SIGINT to exit the process and interrupt the syscall in the process < 1311682491 211580 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that system call restart mechanism that was described/mentioned in the linux-gate text. < 1311682495 410839 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pun unintentional) < 1311682503 44568 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :system call restart's used in a different set of cases, I think < 1311682518 125244 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm wondering what happens if you signal the process, then use ptrace to unsignal the process again (which is possible) < 1311682526 218395 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get EINTR, or restart, or something else? < 1311682712 347480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'd like to hazard a guess. I don't even know what happens first when you send a handled signal to a process that's currently being PTRACE_SYSCALL'd; whether it will stop at the "syscall exit" SIGTRAP-alike or what. < 1311682731 188533 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I < 1311682735 378083 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be easy to test, at least < 1311682847 507161 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syscall restart mechanism at least works in user code (it's just the return address that changes) and presumably you get the ptrace "syscall exit" trap at that point, so you can there decide whether to allow the restart to happen or not. But I don't really know the exact order of things happening, i.e. when will the signal get (a) delivered to ptrace or (b) handled if you let it be. < 1311682910 197620 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent SIGINT to sleep(1), and got a syscall return with value -516 (there doesn't seem to be an errno 516), followed by SIGINT arriving < 1311682935 723479 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems it was using nanosleep to do its sleeping < 1311682970 230786 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, -516 does not seem to be -EINTR, which is -4 < 1311682994 73557 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is -512-4. < 1311683002 84924 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 512 sounds like a flag. < 1311683011 63695 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1311683021 459995 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably it < 1311683022 584102 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pure guess.) < 1311683047 105597 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try it again using a syscall that sleep(1) will ignore < 1311683091 382525 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent it SIGCHLD, and it returned -516, then received SIGCHLD, ignored it, then called syscall 0 < 1311683103 389860 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is restart_syscall < 1311683125 351934 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does look very much like the -512 is a sign that the syscall should be restarted, if the program is interested in restarting it < 1311683126 904584 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it gets "physically" interrupted in all cases, but auto-restarted if the signal is not handled. < 1311683131 216823 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311683197 521095 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to signal(7), nanosleep is interrupted and returns EINTR if interrupted by a signal handler < 1311683208 193623 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wasn't a signal handler, it was SIGCHLD, which sleep(1) has no reason to handle because it never forks < 1311683236 972644 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'strace' command prints the return value -- when I "sleep 1000" + kill -CHLD it -- as "ERESTART_RESTARTBLOCK (To be restarted)" < 1311683240 233845 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I need to do to force an EINTR, then, is to replace the -516 with -4, I bet < 1311683247 222380 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can get a success return by replacing it with 0 < 1311683265 115783 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace is great for making sense of things < 1311683284 779504 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I've been expanding syscall arguments that represent flags just by compiling them into a small test program and stracing them < 1311683375 218583 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good way of letting someone else have to handle the dirty work of gathering lists of all those flags and their meanings. < 1311683422 63160 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dread trying to deal with ioctl < 1311683457 148231 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it can only be used on character special devices, which cuts down the number of cases somewhat; if I don't mknod a device, then nothing can ioctl at it < 1311683464 376398 :CakeProphet!~adam@h112.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311683464 428956 :CakeProphet!~adam@h112.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311683464 429114 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311683505 133801 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I'll go and censor anything in my code that gives away why I'm writing it, and post source somewhere < 1311683507 627787 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll take a while, though < 1311683524 897134 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux/errno.h has values 512..516 as ERESTARTSYS, ERESTARTNOINTR, ERESTARTNOHAND, ENOIOCTLCMD and ERESTART_RESTARTBLOCK with a comment "These should never be seen by user programs. -- Note that ptrace can observe these at syscall exit tracing, but they will never be left for the debugged user process to see." < 1311683542 681271 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good catch < 1311683579 848631 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also for some improbable reason there's a set of NFSv3 errors in the same file. < 1311683584 106420 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should try to track down that suspected kernel bug I saw earlier < 1311683614 824276 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define EJUKEBOX 528 /* Request initiated, but will not complete before timeout */ <- Interestingly named. < 1311683696 278838 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same file? < 1311683721 352554 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should look into the implementation of syscall(2) some time < 1311683941 699325 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gdb/i386-nat.c seems to do the debug register accesses < 1311683946 733302 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that you can only set four hardware break/watchpoints < 1311683963 635137 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a little annoyingly low < 1311683963 744583 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's DR0 .. DR3 registers for it. < 1311683991 514698 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DR6 and DR7 are status and control < 1311684025 556799 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only used three at any given time. < 1311684138 450709 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual interface for setting the debug registers for another process in Linux appears to be to poke into the context-switched-out version of the registers using ptrace, so that they get set as the process context switches back in < 1311684236 628480 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it's "u_debugreg" in struct user < 1311684237 858448 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311684271 268746 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1311684373 424560 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311684753 467209 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another auto-generated book: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/nomic-lambert-m-surhone/1025063254?ean=9786130549695&itm=13&usri=nomic < 1311684776 340614 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... huh? < 1311684788 187080 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the cover know that it's Suber if it's autogenerated? < 1311684797 150706 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... HIGH QUALITY WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES < 1311684864 30977 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/road-rules-lambert-m-surhone/1028378779?ean=9783639996302&itm=1&usri=lambert%2bm%2bsurhone < 1311684902 297875 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, clicking the cover gives a different picture < 1311685402 786932 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know who has an underappreciated job? < 1311685409 507141 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tech support people < 1311686313 287374 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311686337 944562 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311687177 334427 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311687617 713437 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311687695 265403 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311687787 706326 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311688517 793655 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311688720 403064 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311688937 224749 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311689642 648744 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20 < 1311690245 776960 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311690336 219184 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311690401 351425 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1311690652 110529 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311692102 448262 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311694482 111032 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311694991 486554 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311695106 341151 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311697094 972522 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl fracf = \x y -> (color iters) $ (mandelbrot iters) x y < 1311697095 25549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fracf = (color iters .) . mandelbrot iters < 1311697389 825821 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1311698146 529072 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-128.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311698317 552523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311698598 523784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311702458 543620 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311704133 565263 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311704159 343878 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311705845 189052 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311705979 137732 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311706156 124650 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20 < 1311706546 72270 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1311706572 462460 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know own an inflatable toy electric guitar < 1311706598 539789 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can one know own? < 1311706612 614495 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a slip of the finger. < 1311706618 97593 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant "now own" < 1311706627 412380 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, s/know/now/ < 1311706663 31965 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that how it's done? < 1311706678 635140 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( "now" ++ "here" )
< 1311706797 370756 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yuh. < 1311706804 893073 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good < 1311707450 670880 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1311709255 143489 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1311712120 632185 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got TVTropes out of my top six websites on chrome on this computer! < 1311712176 298470 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1311712222 307018 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I am anxiously awaiting a mildly embarrasing video of myself to be uploaded to the internet < 1311712962 650913 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311713216 598866 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had an idea for an esoteric programming language < 1311713254 645782 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonna make a page in user namespace < 1311713268 838818 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. What idea is that? < 1311713296 495303 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know Binary Combinatory Logic and Binary Tag System and things? < 1311713308 119519 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The binary ones < 1311713319 523431 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311713338 660762 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311713338 731206 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.158.92 QUIT :Changing host < 1311713338 783484 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1311713427 26303 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it's 2^n of those < 1311713442 587860 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a variety pack of binary turing tarpits with no IO < 1311713463 818418 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to call it... BINARY VARIETY PACK < 1311714791 641096 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Taneb/Binary_Variety_Pack < 1311714853 228568 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311715214 15095 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-128.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311715932 961004 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311715979 818406 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311716651 932172 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1311717228 760491 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here remember a novelty abstract strategy game from the 1990s where there was like height differences between different squares on the board, and the pieces were different-sized semispheres? < 1311717884 975840 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-167-249.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mostly playing Red Alert back then as far as strategy games go < 1311717890 128016 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-167-249.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1311717894 823297 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-167-249.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :And AGE OF EMPIRE < 1311718524 543570 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311718781 323895 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Yes, in the 1990s they could only afford a single Empire. < 1311718837 243435 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-167-249.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously, the only empire was MINE < 1311718841 370351 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-167-249.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I WIN < 1311719114 351911 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall that game from some old popular science magazine adverts < 1311719118 296398 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never saw it with my own eyes < 1311719125 439497 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I've gotten intrigued as to what the rules may have been < 1311719133 641835 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the differences of elevation may have affected the gameplay < 1311721772 622085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311722038 515615 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311722925 426527 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311724007 742131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311725054 580372 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311725704 62556 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311725901 460384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :robots----> < 1311725937 113012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT HAS BEGUN? < 1311725946 625786 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311726066 330515 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In man against machine, machine will conquer all < 1311726075 761783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311726092 614042 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until the Butlerian Jihad, that is < 1311726105 921024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311726153 127016 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dune is kinda hegelian dialectic < 1311726156 107740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:41:56: if i have n regexes, is it possible to compile them all into one optimized thing that will match if either one had matched? < 1311726157 670770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:42:03: like a big or operator < 1311726159 292658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a|b|c|d < 1311726185 908338 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thesis: machines rule, antithesis: humans rule, synthesis: they coexist < 1311726193 959524 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311726221 567193 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MARX IN SPACE < 1311726232 810694 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1311726236 489922 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Except for the part where they don't really coexist and instead enslave and destroy one another most of the time < 1311726236 542383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:43:32: hmmm, so doesn't the fact that humans are reasonably effective at solving the halting problem for a given language suggest that it's impossible to replicate human intelligence via Turing-complete computation? < 1311726253 311066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: we are terrible at solving the halting problem, and obviously turing machines can solve a subset of the halting problem < 1311726256 730543 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: read the sequel the son of Herbert's wrote? < 1311726268 80161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:44:34: well, I suppose since we're not perfect at it, and we can't solve it for languages that are unknown to us.. < 1311726269 781793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not perfect" -- you're way too kind to human intelligence :P < 1311726283 787272 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: Not yet. Still getting through those. Just doesn't feel the same. < 1311726321 613164 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know. < 1311726326 827093 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do suck < 1311726351 961954 :jcp|other!~alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311726353 543700 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they kinda change feeling, and the end plot changes are kind of orthogonal in story space to any good endings < 1311726362 521165 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well, you get what I'm trying to say < 1311726367 132233 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes I do < 1311726374 992551 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a bit disappointed at how it turns out < 1311726381 387483 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the rabbis-in-space, though < 1311726394 710372 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311726409 131973 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were kind of a wtf moment < 1311726434 65324 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bene gesserit thingy where they go and say something like 'oh, we collaborate at times with an even older conspiracy' < 1311726434 210043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:12:03: So what' are "true but unprovable" statements for a system of axioms? < 1311726435 959316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:12:10: Or does that not apply to CH? < 1311726436 12530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:12:51: there is no such thing, truth only applies _inside_ a model of the axioms, unless it holds for _all_ models, in which case its provable. < 1311726447 727337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well a lot of people natter about "true but unprovable" things, perhaps even people with skill, decades back, I presume... < 1311726456 564984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is bandied about casually quite a bit < 1311726480 983841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:24:20: and i'm not entirely sure if there are some systems weaker than peano arithmetic (weak enough not to allow godel's proof) but still expressive enough to talk about their own consistency, and then maybe prove it. < 1311726481 37663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes IIRC < 1311726483 80505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it doesn't have induction, I think < 1311726487 378403 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwaarddijk: olawd < 1311726530 565168 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Jesus, hitting your backlog hard enough? < 1311726545 82368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: you realise i do complete logreads, right :D < 1311726557 453545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan even does a lot of the time, though he replies rather less :P < 1311726567 84841 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> elliott sleep < 1311726567 639124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `elliott'Not in scope: `sleep' < 1311726573 541609 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that explains it < 1311726578 212851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's more of a complete logbrowse at best < 1311726589 444098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're dead to me < 1311726624 39158 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I missed a lot of good conversation < 1311726639 225974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :start logreading < 1311726642 313561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun + educational < 1311726644 770876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless idiots were talking < 1311726660 243485 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-unless < 1311726660 719767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which, Gregor really needs to add ignores to the codu log formatter < 1311726663 575567 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, snap < 1311726693 164405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:00:42: ais: nowadays people need to commute, it's a requirement of our way of life. it takes a special dedication for someone not to commute at all. < 1311726695 370512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater lives in a world consisting only of himself < 1311726700 467416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's not funny, it's just accurate-looking :( < 1311726714 965755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scrolls faster
< 1311726757 802727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:06:03: OTOH the tube makes you ill and deaf, so i don't like it. < 1311726759 244998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn that illifying tube gas < 1311726759 773527 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, DeJaVu Sans Mono is the best monospaced font, period < 1311726764 951363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1311726766 942034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sure < 1311726770 798385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you misspelled its name < 1311726774 739891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well miscapitalised. < 1311726784 359706 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I? I never remember where the damn caps go < 1311726795 884113 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1311726798 721524 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DejaVu < 1311726802 503294 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1311726815 228504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many monospaced fonts have you used? :p < 1311726829 251594 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dozen regularly < 1311726833 333503 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More experimentally < 1311726833 986749 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :De Javu < 1311726969 956383 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inconsolata just doesn't have the Unicode coverage I want :D < 1311727021 752844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inconsolata only renders nicely on OS X, which is odd since it wasn't created on OS X. I want to try Pragmata, but it costs a lot of money and I can't find it pirated anywhere. < 1311727029 876805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm using DejaVu because it's the default. :p < 1311727039 155489 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it < 1311727045 42943 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pragmata, that is < 1311727045 221191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Anyway how much Unicode does your code have?) < 1311727045 388610 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha fonts that cost money < 1311727060 194661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Huh, where'd you get it? Don't tell me you paid for it. :p < 1311727067 163705 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hell no. I know a place < 1311727079 322995 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use Haskell fontlock in Emacs, and some of the characters are in obscure spaces < 1311727091 554701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell fontlock =/= Haskell unicodeifying stuff < 1311727104 515862 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it displays stuff in pretty unicode ways < 1311727107 714713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: A place just for fonts? That must be like the driest pirate cove in the universe. < 1311727112 614784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1311727121 203929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not < 1311727121 258041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a separate thing < 1311727121 258212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-mode does nothing of the sort < 1311727124 12515 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's actually for music. The fonts are just coincidental < 1311727135 459959 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hipsters like fonts, I guess < 1311727152 715209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Amazing. (I don't suppose it's one of the "famous" places.) < 1311727159 283576 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda famous, I guess < 1311727166 167786 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can dropbox you the font if you want < 1311727202 960735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be nice. (By famous I meant the few OiNK (did I get my hipster capitalisation right?) replacements.) < 1311727224 958880 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm not really sure how what the file haskell-font-lock.el is doing anything but what I said it does < 1311727231 655243 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*other than < 1311727239 252105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:06:09: It's also quite common. Doesn't the Windows-bundled FreeCell also allow it? (With the old one having 32000 possible games, of which all but one are solvable, or something like that.) < 1311727244 474900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There are like five unsolvable games, I think. < 1311727252 186091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the negative numbers. < 1311727261 856752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Well, it is certainly not haskell-mode. < 1311727272 900288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an Emacs Unicode thing on the Haskell wiki. < 1311727282 311875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why it'd call itself haskell-font-lock. < 1311727295 639356 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can read it yourself. It's bundled with haskell-mode < 1311727326 757507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it is? < 1311727330 347539 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1311727345 788176 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to turn it on or hook it, but it's there < 1311727388 252246 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, actually I guess I just setq'd < 1311727388 641041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, seems so. < 1311727391 81400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Well, it is a bad idea anyway. < 1311727396 3820 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(setq haskell-font-lock-symbols t) < 1311727397 480123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: It breaks indentation. < 1311727397 682518 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1311727402 756816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And alignment. < 1311727407 629099 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not noticeably, except in very few cases < 1311727411 834761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter < 1311727416 325855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a deal breaker < 1311727420 949390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also using Unicode is a total hack for this. < 1311727433 883978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you really want is some sort of realtime LaTeX-esque code rendering. < 1311727437 595028 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you wanna do it better, I'm sure they'd love the effort < 1311727439 877857 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311727445 78161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eh; this hack isn't even enough to fix the <*> operators. < 1311727461 289446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: IF U CRITICISE FILM......... THEN WHY DONT U MAKE A BETTER FILM????/// CHECKMATE EBERT < 1311727465 324125 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311727482 496602 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say you shouldn't criticize < 1311727486 835241 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just seem passionate about it :D < 1311727500 342644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not passionate about it :P < 1311727508 388029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just relatively certain it's a bad idea < 1311727521 108502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be more apathetic, if you'd like? < 1311727529 859138 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm relatively certain that if you're not braindead it is a non-issue :D < 1311727541 405539 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had zero indentation issues < 1311727553 260742 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311727553 885530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has demonstrable flaws, I'm allowed to point them out :p < 1311727681 771914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Pragmata is only legible at fourteen pt < 1311727692 10778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I'm blind < 1311727868 982771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I could be more apathetic, if you'd like? <-- so you say you could care less? < 1311727932 933558 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could care in one of several directions. < 1311727950 849644 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311727960 670378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1311727969 898987 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only care in spirals < 1311727986 88070 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mandelbrot Sigh < 1311728039 278631 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im too subhuman to care in fractals. spiral sigh. < 1311728334 884523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to care in fractals is simple. just care in fractals, then care in fractals. < 1311728360 357443 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot the most important step < 1311728362 446448 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's an infinite loop. < 1311728379 635168 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to say "just care in fractals, while caring in fractals at the same time" < 1311728387 407432 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, s/then/and/ < 1311728411 665544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: what step < 1311728427 321388 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Care in fractals, of course < 1311728453 980724 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let care = care in fractals < 1311728505 600931 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> takeWhile (>4) [1,2,3] < 1311728506 126603 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1311728508 892510 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, off to work. < 1311728568 749051 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Workin' < 1311728688 730503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311728709 27716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311728716 957921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip bats < 1311728817 137708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's animal abuse! < 1311728823 743679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you might catch rabies < 1311729120 260006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::{ < 1311729520 202493 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = let y = y in x in 5 < 1311729520 806783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1311729554 282832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1311729604 683002 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let y = y in y < 1311729605 279253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. t < 1311729741 9689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if Haskell had only runtime errors and lazy evaluation < 1311729759 926788 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let y = ha ha ha ha ha ha ha in 4 < 1311729772 81315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what no scoping? < 1311729798 212398 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but the scoping errors only arise when the code executes < 1311729848 965091 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it does in Python and Perl without strict. < 1311729894 232851 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess syntax errors couldn't be runtime errors... < 1311729908 651885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they could :D < 1311729929 971680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would lead to some ambiguous parsing.. < 1311729937 722999 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because EVERYTHING would have to parse correctly. < 1311729941 62288 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be run < 1311729946 923310 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then give a syntax error. < 1311729966 537444 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311729968 689189 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you include parsing as part of "runtime"... < 1311729970 606674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem is how late to detect them i guess. if you have a function definition it needs to be parsed before you can use it. < 1311729994 276479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least up to the point of finding out where it _ends_ < 1311730005 494861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure but you can delay finding the values it _references_ < 1311730012 954004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you just need to be able to discern the boundaries of things. < 1311730016 677370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unless you include parsing as part of "runtime"... < 1311730017 7459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311730020 189879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course lisp makes this easy with the parens < 1311730028 258166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1311730032 242508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in haskell, layout can help < 1311730033 95299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can modify the readtable < 1311730037 807348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311730059 315118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some lisps, at least. < 1311730068 29196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, the readtable isn't modified until after the command which modifies it, i presume. < 1311730144 424866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course in haskell the insensitivity to declaration order makes it harder again... < 1311730280 424059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311730358 701083 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A copy of Canada's ruleset from 2008/4/28 has been recovered < 1311730382 627750 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Canada? < 1311730395 877767 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nomic < 1311730405 767448 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^(still ambiguous, kind of) < 1311730427 721646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to have a T rating with that many stabbed children." < 1311730428 721048 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which nomic. :) < 1311730429 170379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one whose players would call it a "nomic" < 1311730431 346051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How amazing < 1311730433 544118 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which nomic. :) < 1311730438 524643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which nomic. :) < 1311730439 13780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which nomic. :) < 1311730439 360949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which nomic. :) < 1311730451 420885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are two nomics called Canada Sgeo it's true < 1311730461 658534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One lasted about ten messages. < 1311730473 706175 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1311730512 708236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to have a T rating with that many stabbed children." < 1311730513 222126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1311730515 846156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already quoted that >_< < 1311731500 44390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you ever argue about relativity when playing D&D game? < 1311731520 647118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatively rarely. < 1311731568 240235 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much relativity. < 1311731575 754022 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classical mechanics, fairly often. < 1311731600 113104 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the peasant railgun has elicited discussion of relativity. < 1311731908 224706 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias ls 'echo ls: .: Permission denied' < 1311732412 517084 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was arguing about relativity having to do with "Time Hop" power. < 1311732658 143051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo, this is broken < 1311732955 222036 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh dear, what happened. < 1311732989 832246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IamA The New Old Spices Man Fabio AMA (Internet keywords Romance, Fabio, Old Spice, Italian Supermodel, Italian, Motorcycle) (self.IAmA) < 1311732990 140105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet keywords < 1311733058 693952 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :italiam supermodel motorcycle romance eh < 1311733069 343996 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks internet keywords < 1311733082 908314 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could never have done it < 1311733082 960806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did anyone read The Silmarillion? That book explains everything. The entire Lord of the Rings is actually just the epilogue to incredibly epic saga that is The Silmarillion." < 1311733084 48369 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :without you < 1311733087 162511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't The Silmarillion like in encyclopedia form < 1311733090 353570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :driest saga ever < 1311733137 416272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably oerjan knows because i think he read all of the tolkein shit < 1311733142 660716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1311733230 182326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, i only read it until about the part where they created the sun and moon, i think < 1311733266 773071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i, too, hate the sun and the moon < 1311733281 278050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SO the one ring is saurons horcrux? ya?" < 1311733282 789905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you, melkor and sauron have something in common. < 1311733296 49153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i haven't read the bible, explain < 1311733297 827954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1311733305 255865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1311733357 290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: melkor/morgoth is the main evil guy, he destroyed the light sources they had previously on two occasions < 1311733373 232387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that the satan guy < 1311733376 730688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lol, moon's light source < 1311733380 525757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less. < 1311733381 572535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL SMASH THE LIGHTBULB IN THE MOON < 1311733403 7990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If Tom Bombadil wore the ring it would be as if Melkor returned. If i remember correctly, Bombadil is the most powerful character in the trilogy, similar or exactly like the gods created by illumitar. Therefore he has the most to lose if he was to wear the One Ring, because he had the such immense power that was corrupted for evil" < 1311733403 883424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tom Bombadil did wear the ring. It had absolutely no effect on him." < 1311733413 638421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although after he is exiled from the world entirely, sauron takes over. < 1311733428 62560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's he exiled to < 1311733431 886858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :azkaban? < 1311733439 74458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't tell my religions apart < 1311733442 410739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i think it was sort of outer space < 1311733581 505048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so i take it tom bombadil's a pretty minor character < 1311733581 819351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think morgoth may have attacked the sun and moon at one point too, but failed in destroying them. < 1311733587 49769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm reading all about how he's like the most powerful thing in the universe < 1311733589 149636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nature itself < 1311733592 718041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im imagining this bit part < 1311733619 994468 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can the most powerful thing in the universe have the name tom < 1311733620 874032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well the thing about him is that he is the only character in LoTR who is entirely unaffected by the ring, so it's easy to start speculating... < 1311733621 786038 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work < 1311733627 384970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right :D < 1311733632 48383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but he is minor yes < 1311733642 916505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, he only show up briefly < 1311733645 842183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shos < 1311733648 108539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shows < 1311733698 985312 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179115136.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311733738 667137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have this weird vague idea that maybe morgoth's attack was how the moon got phases, or something like that. < 1311733762 555586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was around the point i stopped reading. < 1311733768 882761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311734245 37073 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should read LOTR < 1311734258 919049 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got bored last time I started. But that was probably over a decade ago < 1311734288 400033 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps not. < 1311734293 3143 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LotR is not well-written. < 1311734311 319192 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it's fairly poorly written. < 1311734319 507252 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant setting, decent narrative, poor writing. < 1311734498 403646 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229130233.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311734638 100907 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311735339 278972 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311735725 896670 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you ever finish Dot Action 2? < 1311735743 552235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't think so :P < 1311735748 986739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I tried all the levels at least < 1311735753 169337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bonus ones were impossible < 1311735758 557914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in difficult) < 1311735776 19176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember one of the bonus ones being easy < 1311735953 565211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"First of all, I like Haskell a lot. I’m the Thompson in “Thompson-Wheeler Logo.” That cute shape that cleverly combines the lambda and monad bind shapes? My idea. The irony is not lost on me. That Haskell logo of mine is used all over the world, and yet I’m barely a mediocre Haskell programmer." < 1311735955 31661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UR SO FAMOUS < 1311735961 158122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE NAME THOMPSON-WHEELER LOG OIS KNOWN WORLD WIDE < 1311735977 97746 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing with Time Hop power, is, I was trying to remove a device someone was wearing. I said they would still be wearing the device when it reappeared. The DM and other player thought not. However, I still knew a way to remove the device regardless, by putting a rock in the way. < 1311736004 624334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perhaps you formalists know handwaving over the details as the “Axiom of Choice,” no? I hearby invoke it." < 1311736008 376540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god you're a shithead i'm not reading this post < 1311736088 238841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is honestly the worst written thing ever < 1311736099 585954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to use another haskell logo because of how annoying this guy is < 1311736117 278411 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, linky? < 1311736125 885106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://willowbend.cx/2011/07/22/whats-wrong-with-learning-haskell/, bring your shithead filter < 1311736155 24997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is really, REALLY annoying and bad at writing and also has no good point < 1311736165 871071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the post is over already < 1311736283 992356 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confessions of a Wannabe Capitalist < 1311736286 463981 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this mean < 1311736295 832163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god that is his subtitle what < 1311736312 656632 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this post < 1311736316 200241 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is so bad < 1311736318 778921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1311736323 509480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he really hates DAMN FORMALISTS < 1311736338 666257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he's not good at math, and wants resources to help him learn Haskell < 1311736350 888476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically he wants people to put big warnings on their blog < 1311736352 702504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF UR DUM DONT READ < 1311736354 116848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ LYAH INSTEAD < 1311736355 183523 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although he keeps using "axiom of choice" randomly, I don't see what's wro.. oh < 1311736365 699660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because irc isn't good enough or i guess because he just didn't bother joining irc < 1311736375 302610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: he knows there are resources < 1311736379 646150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just wants people to tell him what not to read < 1311736382 125147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without him doing anything < 1311736391 227540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also AXIOM OF CHOICE AXIOM OF CHOICE IT'S "HANDWAVING" HAHA THEORISTS IM A SHITHEAD < 1311736395 966152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: I KNOW NOTHING < 1311737029 127092 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It worked when I was learning Ruby. Not here. This was a bad idea. I learned nothing and it made me feel bad. Yeah, poor me." -- same effect as lurking in a japanese chatroom to learn japanese < 1311737051 213659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ < 1311737067 873921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming it was a japanese chatroom about japanese. :p < 1311737122 483735 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't < 1311737142 773137 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was a japan-themed english chatroom < 1311737334 170938 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i am actually learning a lot from this article < 1311737346 303790 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311737428 49787 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean i back the guy up but the idea of using haskell to prove things is good to know < 1311737524 33794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: not a good idea (Haskell's type system is an inconsistent logic) < 1311737528 791403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it also has no facilities for the purpose < 1311737531 208494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody does that beyond a toy :P < 1311737536 815565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see Coq, Agda for this idea fully fleshed out < 1311737538 238977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and safely) < 1311737539 968660 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone used Haskell to prove Haskell < 1311737541 70196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more Coq < 1311737549 524852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Haskell is too powerful for that... < 1311737549 577305 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i actually got a damned good resource for people like me < 1311737556 65985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gödel) < 1311737558 755775 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Impossible < 1311737598 266091 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I encountered when learning about compilers is a mysterious misconception that I had carried. < 1311737604 204465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about Godel, although I did read somewhere, someone used to prove Haskell or at least part of it. < 1311737623 116545 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's analagous to a fractional component left over after a division. < 1311737644 765570 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, Suppose you have a tower of blocks on the ground. < 1311737656 991527 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :They stand together. < 1311737675 377586 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, there is no glue. < 1311737684 900824 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1311737751 455633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravity??? < 1311737795 166032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311737812 194672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not impossible, it just means that Haskell's type system is inconsistent, which it is :-P < 1311737828 62832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can prove it already, it just won't be a very good proof < 1311737847 337229 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eleves.ens.fr/home/amarilli/falso/ < 1311737860 563783 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm falso < 1311737876 894027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eleves.ens.fr/home/amarilli/falso/axioms.png nice coq screenshot < 1311737926 305655 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the proof is its own counterexample < 1311738131 214918 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, it depends on the semantics you assign to Haskell - if you use its type system, then yes < 1311738157 304165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the topic was proving things curry-howard-wise. < 1311738171 435901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's the only interpretation, proving Haskell's consistency with the proposition as a type and the proof as a value < 1311738219 406287 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing the layfolk like me tend to do is underestimate the spectrum of formally provable things < 1311738269 74795 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311738293 910346 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was impressed by reading on wiki about the jordan curve proof i think it was called < 1311738316 472788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.reddit.com/ads/takemymoney.jpeg no < 1311738680 309412 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, looking at atoms or molecules vs looking at things the same relative size as us. I think this idea could become something cool in programming < 1311738709 5202 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh wait thats exactly what happens ;_; ) < 1311738765 112351 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1311738778 702000 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to see a high level game of life < 1311738849 705758 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the level is so much higher than the baseline of live and dead cells that you couldn't recognize it anymore < 1311739217 444918 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very bad at not being vaporware < 1311739326 899815 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im vapourware irl < 1311739394 185418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you both seem quite implemented to me < 1311739600 251582 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, how perverted. < 1311739600 679936 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :<: < 1311739602 280144 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1311739666 389435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1311739681 198436 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its perfectly normal for subhumans like me < 1311739695 991656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dont worry evolution will turn u into a human soon < 1311739698 210930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know from pokemons < 1311739733 461592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god this mcmap code isso raciest to me < 1311739748 709320 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck politics < 1311739749 162604 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/29/barack-obama/obama-regrets-2006-vote-against-raising-debt-limit/ < 1311739752 471923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i HATE raciests,, they make me sick,.; < 1311739757 771939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fuck politics < 1311739760 870301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then sgeo talked about politics < 1311739762 814619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro < 1311739893 192433 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if SLIME works with Emacs 23.1
< 1311740235 942405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311740242 940775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311741523 707858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pojdoijerioenoinefoinefoineoinef < 1311741800 248244 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311742345 808775 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311742370 158357 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311743688 662707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a very readable presentation, randall. < 1311743714 509674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that is the stupidest thing < 1311743719 539347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has he finally given up < 1311743730 739534 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not readable, but pretty awesome < 1311743736 620535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it awesome < 1311743741 630348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i took some data BUT NOW IT IS POLAR........" < 1311743759 356598 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle findIndex < 1311743759 434013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString findIndex :: (Word8 -> Bool) -> ByteString -> Maybe Int < 1311743759 500941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List findIndex :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe Int < 1311743759 553708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Map findIndex :: Ord k => k -> Map k a -> Int < 1311743854 130370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311743857 444152 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311743879 882508 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311743916 719533 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went to wiktionary a few times and now chromium won't stop autocompleting to wiktionary i want it to autocomplete to wikipedia so i can hit tab to make it search wikipedia this is the dumbest thing help < 1311743931 185970 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \z -> (magnitude z) > 2 < 1311743931 258147 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(> 2) . magnitude < 1311743940 205778 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok < 1311743940 322581 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: add a keyword for wikipedia < 1311743947 421740 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: gross < 1311743953 801499 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no u < 1311743954 765663 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: delete from history? < 1311743956 500681 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i do that i am not good at this < 1311743963 481017 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keyword thing < 1311743964 441199 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erase,,,, the LIE < 1311743965 908877 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless keyword is bad < 1311743971 388500 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even think chrome has those < 1311743979 103122 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how do i erase the lie < 1311743984 952704 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's a button < 1311743985 795275 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1311743987 907591 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: chrome:history -> edit items < 1311743992 682740 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i hit it < 1311743999 291353 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then purge,,, < 1311744009 754630 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly how you do it in chrome < 1311744051 710533 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems that http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=95653 is the only thing < 1311744052 953837 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gross < 1311744053 368578 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i hit clear all browsing data will it clear all the wiktionary results but not the rest of my precious history which isn't lies < 1311744064 550656 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes < 1311744068 363603 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: obviously < 1311744069 985440 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you read < 1311744102 366860 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no it's not doing what i want it to do < 1311744111 109334 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you could just use the search history < 1311744128 615089 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that how do i do that < 1311744132 275356 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean that thing < 1311744137 14064 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I tried < 1311744151 243908 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i was talking about when i hit clear all browsing data i guess it actually meant all browsing data though < 1311744156 397426 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't find a select all < 1311744171 918004 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1311744173 925856 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311744175 304908 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now u have less baggage < 1311744176 628350 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its zen < 1311744192 742675 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy zen, < 1311744211 220489 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can delete search engnes < 1311744219 849660 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that ages ago < 1311744225 726505 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still autocompleted to it < 1311744228 716877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION deletes google MWAHAHAHAHA
< 1311744248 911968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION also deletes bing, to keep a sort of good/evil balance
< 1311744250 293675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right click address bar, edit search engines, removing, doesn't help? < 1311744250 623264 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: purgaernces →manage searchkjnl; engines ---\→ delet wiktiaonry < 1311744258 945780 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: poop u i do better < 1311744285 582898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you could hurt someone with those typos < 1311744293 184566 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :→→→ < 1311744293 821697 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah,,,like YUOU, DIE FUCKK < 1311744313 40656 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-46.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311744313 104169 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hurt inside ,_ < 1311744317 97649 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, did you sleep anytime within the past 14 days? < 1311744322 227612 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive never a slep < 1311744338 861601 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i a slep......like every night..... < 1311744356 627083 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it. So, we're conversing with the sleep-deprived ghost of elliott_ < 1311744362 325774 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on nights i dont a slep < 1311744368 917724 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :slep-deprived < 1311744387 216549 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : feels bad, imnever a god person, probably offended elliott_ (best guy), criticise typelexia............................................ but remoserful + planning to become better < 1311744390 850853 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now our hero......... < 1311744409 918019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bizarro_oerjan < 1311744417 207510 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :👍 < 1311744439 498882 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in an alternate universe............................................................................ you are a good person < 1311744465 747678 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bizarro universe: a good place???? < 1311744493 717775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BEST place. everyone got to kill people, fun! < 1311744746 697395 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311744943 637620 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-124.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311745353 459325 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this reminds me of the Radiohead song Fitter, Happier < 1311745405 775998 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you ever read the gentle introduction < 1311745412 34584 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want to just so i can say it was easy < 1311745426 506928 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to... Haskell? < 1311745430 221424 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want to just so i can say it was gentle < 1311745433 532181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall < 1311745451 136103 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to category theory is it right < 1311745466 413650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed haskell... < 1311745470 947815 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be confusing it with something else gentle though < 1311745475 422460 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it could be haskell < 1311745484 126645 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am bad at gentle things < 1311745487 525901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311745521 375727 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is gentle introduction supposed not to be gentle < 1311745534 317611 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311745536 431477 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its mlgentle < 1311745545 889135 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help whjat does thsi mean help < 1311745550 685720 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SML or OCaml or what? < 1311745554 881286 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our purpose in writing this tutorial is not to teach programming, nor even to teach functional programming. Rather, it is intended to serve as a supplement to the Haskell Report [4], which is otherwise a rather dense technical exposition. Our goal is to provide a gentle introduction to Haskell for someone who has experience with at least one other language, preferably a functional language (even if only an "almost-functional" language such as ML or Sc < 1311745555 92730 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heme). If the reader wishes to learn more about the functional programming style, we highly recommend Bird's text Introduction to Functional Programming [1] or Davie's An Introduction to Functional Programming Systems Using Haskell [2]. For a useful survey of functional programming languages and techniques, including some of the language design principles used in Haskell, see [3]. < 1311745588 684162 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you weren't saying that the title was "mlgentle" < 1311745623 691580 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno this looks pretty gentle < 1311745624 64418 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : [stuff] < 1311745634 565225 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i gather it becomes rough very soon < 1311745665 387982 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im afraid i already know haskell < 1311745669 844961 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :judging this may be difficult < 1311745678 636645 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mentions hindley milner on page two, gseveral times < 1311745681 510419 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+ < 1311745685 571506 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not have formal education education............ < 1311745704 229032 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, we could define Int (fixed precision integers) and Integer by: < 1311745704 448200 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Int = -65532 | ... | -1 | 0 | 1 | ... | 65532 -- more pseudo-code < 1311745704 607298 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Integer = ... -2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 ... < 1311745704 757230 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311745706 219285 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not valid tutorial < 1311745708 455306 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :notvalid int < 1311745710 568293 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :needsmor,e unumbers < 1311745728 995416 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- This is not valid < 1311745730 739413 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Haskell code! < 1311745734 362900 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good coments⇧ < 1311745739 279985 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311745748 123826 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sections on page three < 1311745749 67490 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im lol < 1311745774 342853 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, never know when an idiot is reading and thinks "Oh, I need to copy/paste this code for this assignment" or something < 1311745795 686430 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is that they put the code in there at all < 1311745807 892798 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/tutorial/fig1.gif < 1311745812 92162 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> color $ mandelbrot iters x < 1311745812 163087 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :color . mandelbrot iters < 1311745818 361593 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this daiagarm < 1311745825 524714 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes < 1311745826 508736 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you should learn to do simple pls like that in your head... < 1311745827 463085 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snese < 1311745830 39640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the Haskell spec mention Int being defined in that way kind of? < 1311745830 92717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src [] < 1311745830 145076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data [] a = [] | a : [a] < 1311745836 614765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ^ :P < 1311745847 118270 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1311745847 695304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the haskell report does it < 1311745847 802124 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1311745856 599998 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :x.y = (x).(y), doesn't it. < 1311745861 920034 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what < 1311745866 544369 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a helpful question < 1311745868 768222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: what? < 1311745876 949531 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are yuou asking about its precedence < 1311745879 257430 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> f (g x)) -> (f . g); f=color, g=mandelbrot iters < 1311745884 193349 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is that the haskell report does bad things :( < 1311745884 939772 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the easy way to reduce the above function < 1311745886 505050 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is a bad person < 1311745894 9740 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not inviting the haksell report tyo my < 1311745894 702165 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :party < 1311745902 719295 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i come to party < 1311745916 546831 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you do bad things are you a bad peeron < 1311745924 714234 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311745926 728732 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311745954 184917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_ almost never kills anyone < 1311745960 419284 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to hear a joke monqy < 1311745966 494352 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like good jokes < 1311745971 496996 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad jokes too < 1311745974 825978 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c can't do any kind of parametric polymorphism at all < 1311745976 40239 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1311745976 389134 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediocre jokes die in hell < 1311745978 869718 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha < 1311745979 292190 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without macro abuse) < 1311745986 815067 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time i abuxsed macros < 1311745993 161585 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm thinking it would be interesting to have a list type of sorts that basically puts a wrapper around the element type so that you can put "tags" and "sections" into the list. < 1311745998 497920 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretended i could do paramatrec pomylorphism in c < 1311746006 318741 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1311746006 835886 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :times < 1311746020 312149 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: so um < 1311746024 694678 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ListWrap t a = [t a]? < 1311746025 773102 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is parametric polymorphism? < 1311746026 236419 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1311746031 886678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :both sections and tags are given unique identifiers. sections apply to every element of the list from when they start and finish, and tags are given to individual datums. < 1311746034 928164 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes. < 1311746034 980981 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: any sort of generic types < 1311746039 660059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's more like... < 1311746043 525209 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in C, you must define a separate type for a list of each element type < 1311746048 621807 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a tuple of each element type, etc. etc. etc. < 1311746059 125802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ListWrap t a = [Wrapper t a] < 1311746059 465236 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that you can't write generic algorithms of pretty much any sort without ugly (void *) hacks. < 1311746078 351995 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did ugly (void *) hacks < 1311746097 139201 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and swept them under the proverbial carpet with < 1311746097 795210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, the end result is that you can define higher-order functions that allow you to manipulate only elements under a specific section or tag. < 1311746098 829730 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro abuse < 1311746100 50720 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, however, use macros in many ways, to define and to call with sizeof and so on < 1311746115 213431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH, would be useful, for example, in writing combinators to compose rhythmic patterns in a song. :) < 1311746131 180495 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: so um < 1311746143 452402 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (\(t,x) -> if t==goodT then f x else x) < 1311746147 558788 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: no < 1311746156 206211 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapTag t f = map (\(g,x) -> if t == g then f x else x) < 1311746157 177160 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard < 1311746170 498916 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that does not allow the sections, or untagged elements. < 1311746193 312422 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, what I'm doing is an abstraction for something else. Good job. < 1311746199 669139 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need another type < 1311746237 442355 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Wrapper t a = Tagged t a | Section t | EndSection t | Untagged a < 1311746243 57598 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can even use it for checking signed/unsigned, checking with macros, somehow. Would this work? ((~(x&1 < 1311746251 422034 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can even use it for checking signed/unsigned, checking with macros, somehow. Would this work? ((~(x&1))<0) < 1311746266 799850 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if you can find an easier way I'm all ears. < 1311746287 896864 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i dunno, what you're doing seems really ugly?? especially that Section stuff where the list has to be of a certain structure but you're not enforcing it in the types < 1311746290 466102 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need sections what do they do < 1311746298 595320 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1311746310 690277 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section/EndSection < 1311746311 390005 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1311746312 266759 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1311746312 944090 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly < 1311746313 991727 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C if you do "void f(int n, char data[n])" is data passed like n parameters or as a pointer < 1311746339 214123 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mark the beginning and end of.... sections in the list. I suppose you could just tag every element in the section or something... < 1311746354 893018 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :better to have something like Section [Wrapper t a] or if you odn't want nested sections split the datatype up[ < 1311746366 545446 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :marking beginning and end is hell < 1311746369 322142 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could nest. < 1311746388 687256 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll just stick to the tag approach, which would reduce it to a tuple ([t],a) < 1311746393 118755 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow for multiple tags or none. < 1311746404 427994 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311746415 339428 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a "section" is just a tag across every element in a certain point of the list. < 1311746435 386301 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311746479 336833 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might encounter a problem where I have a lot of simultaneous events occur at the same time.. since I'll be using a list to represent a rhythmic pattern. < 1311746495 46751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they won't be simultaneous because list doesn't work that way... < 1311746499 583175 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something of that nature. < 1311746518 476594 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311746529 443507 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, assholes. :P < 1311746552 641992 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry we'll never say anything bad about ideas again < 1311746556 224609 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not "ok" < 1311746583 93464 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that the criticism is vague and not helpful, in the case of ok. < 1311746598 401403 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok was criticism? < 1311746600 287201 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1311746627 675983 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind. < 1311746661 575152 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok keep reading into things < 1311746674 925596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a human, I will read subtexts, yes. < 1311746686 239881 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you hate me if i smile < 1311746686 952017 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz < 1311746688 201526 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im smilen < 1311746693 737900 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep. < 1311746693 905361 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ok": 9/eleven of words, < 1311746697 40751 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in C if you do "void f(int n, char data[n])" is data passed like n parameters or as a pointer < 1311746698 285639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone no, < 1311746700 608390 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Vorpal no < 1311746715 34870 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ....pointer < 1311746718 780774 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isw that even legal synraxt < 1311746721 855931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't "no" but maybe I "know" < 1311746736 122393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, and definitely pointer < 1311746740 281778 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its legal its pointer < 1311746742 719189 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think this is, Perl? lol < 1311746747 258023 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311746750 708823 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: its already weird c99 shit < 1311746752 133433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, wait is n there even legal? < 1311746756 793591 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. c99 shit < 1311746769 431493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, okay then I have no clue how that is passed < 1311746770 693392 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c99 what did you do < 1311746775 675690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, *probably* pointer < 1311746780 775829 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thanks that's not helpful :( < 1311746783 227289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't use VLAs much < 1311746788 270490 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, go test it. < 1311746793 677977 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: how < 1311746799 87289 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i could print out addrs but < 1311746800 661105 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that shit < 1311746808 630808 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :data[0]=1 < 1311746812 660436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, examine the registers of course in an __asm__ __volatile__ at the start! < 1311746817 504311 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would seem to me that the [n] is meaningless, because it couldn't enforce a size because C is stupid and doesn't keep track of array size along with the array. < 1311746819 725532 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: it could be COW................. < 1311746835 486092 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: obviously C knows array size of arrays < 1311746838 291932 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can sizeof them < 1311746844 954909 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :COW? < 1311746849 823071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I think it is equivalent of f(int n, char *data) < 1311746852 880194 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik CakeProphet is right, only char data[static n] has a meaning. < 1311746860 52369 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that will return the size of the pointer, yes. < 1311746867 8431 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: "static n"? like that literally? < 1311746867 427903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, if it is even valid < 1311746873 107248 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: we are talking about arrays, not pointers. < 1311746877 587510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, no, like "fixed value of n" < 1311746877 936304 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: coppy on write < 1311746883 407676 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....we are talking about C, where they are the same thing. < 1311746884 180179 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1311746885 746448 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i asked lifthrasiir < 1311746887 315101 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hahaha nope < 1311746887 532975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I don't think VLA extends to function prototypes < 1311746892 416884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could be wrong < 1311746896 858903 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays are not the same thing as pointers and anyone who says so is lying < 1311746918 369180 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, wait, [static ] is definitely allowed but [static n] is not sure < 1311746921 635360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, in function prototypes they tend to be. char *foo is passed the same as char foo[] < 1311746933 670656 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so you were wrong, it does not mean "fixed value of n"... < 1311746937 799456 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's not the point. < 1311746939 965840 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was takling about sizeof. < 1311746951 878041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, what, you lost me < 1311746960 790914 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1311746961 848337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : in C if you do "void f(int n, char data[n])" is data passed like n parameters or as a pointer < 1311746967 758955 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the only difference is allocation. The actual value of an array is the pointer to the first element, always. sizeof will yield the size of that pointer. < 1311746969 973625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I thought that was what we were talking about? < 1311746970 935074 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 probably allows thing like that, I think it is an unnecessary feature of C99 though, C99 has a few good features < 1311746980 613117 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you are wrong. < 1311746986 900205 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(x)/sizeof(x[0]) will yield the length of an array. < 1311746993 387489 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/c-faq/c-2.html for more information. < 1311746995 776554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311747047 569825 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c hurts < 1311747049 796176 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my head < 1311747075 642468 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for purpose of sizeof, the array type is the entire array, but when just using a value by itself it is a pointer instead. < 1311747086 501852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : in C if you do "void f(int n, char data[n])" is data passed like n parameters or as a pointer <-- I think http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/c-faq/c-2.html 2.4 applies here < 1311747103 859843 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know that that page is updated for c99 < 1311747105 949151 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i googled it up < 1311747107 728374 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: ah okay, I see. < 1311747118 443314 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its even the old version of the c-faq < 1311747122 996563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311747128 613873 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This article is Copyright 1988, 1990-1995 by Steve Summit. It may be freely redistributed so long as the author's name, and this notice, are retained. < 1311747129 515827 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty common misconception then. < 1311747143 122428 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in online literature about C. < 1311747149 485762 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes. mostly among people who don't know/never use C (and then sometimes try to teach it) < 1311747158 947584 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the people who use C without actually knowing a single thing about C, which is most people who use C < 1311747159 20073 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems gcc ignores "static" completely in this case? < 1311747178 923408 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I want the array passed as values here, though. :/ < 1311747179 381457 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe LLVM is a bit better designed, although, it would still work far better with having macros preprocessor and that stuff. < 1311747196 964415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I wish "size_t size, char head[size]" passed the same as `size` parameters. < 1311747211 156152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, what would "static" there even do < 1311747257 476355 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :passed by values? < 1311747265 321039 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so does the pointer decay occur when the array is passed to a function? as this would make the utility of being able to use sizeof to get the length of an array very small. < 1311747267 600131 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a structure can be passed as value in C < 1311747269 518504 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes < 1311747270 714696 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, void f(int n, char data[static 256]) (for example) requires the caller to supply an actual char array with at least 256 elements to data < 1311747273 840734 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would memcpy work or is that dumb and for dumb people < 1311747274 930159 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes. but it is not a small utility at all. < 1311747282 482668 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a widely used idiom < 1311747284 585338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, and plain data[256] means? < 1311747286 542646 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/mcmap$ grep -r NELEMS . < 1311747286 676391 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./cmd.c: for (int i = 0; i < NELEMS(commands); i++) < 1311747286 787339 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: for (int i = 0; i < NELEMS(region->chunks); i++) < 1311747286 839647 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: for (int j = 0; j < NELEMS(region->chunks[i]); j++) < 1311747286 839813 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: for (int i = 0; i < NELEMS(region->chunks); i++) < 1311747287 620122 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./world.c: for (int j = 0; j < NELEMS(region->chunks[i]); j++) < 1311747288 412559 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing. < 1311747289 616141 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./map.c: for (int i = 0; i < NELEMS(region->dirty_chunk); i++) < 1311747291 625505 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./common.h:#define NELEMS(array) (sizeof(array) / sizeof((array)[0])) < 1311747293 539850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, huh < 1311747295 923881 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just like data[] or *data. < 1311747296 936942 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a small-ish codebase. < 1311747300 533562 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(afaik) < 1311747310 10402 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you can use it for statically-sized global arrays, or statically-sized arrays in structures. < 1311747316 44777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, so it is basically like causing a warning or error if not large enough? < 1311747317 784433 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is many arrays. perhaps even most. < 1311747319 948063 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so then this code doesn't receive array as a parameter? < 1311747322 536273 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311747330 747392 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: of course you can pass a structure with an array. < 1311747334 95613 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1311747334 861748 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works fine and doesn't decay. < 1311747338 643284 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rhymes) < 1311747339 331097 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, in principle, yes, but gcc seems ignoring this even in the C99 mode. < 1311747345 309068 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c :( < 1311747348 336881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, heh < 1311747371 412701 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what else he does not know about C. probably many things.
< 1311747384 850546 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found at least one example of this declaration from Google code search: http://google.com/codesearch#1IKf2ZWr9OM/deps/third_party/xz/src/liblzma/check/sha256.c&l=83 < 1311747426 454006 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's the intended use of that kind of declarations. < 1311747443 642126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: so when I write code outside of functions to deal with arrays I should really be declaring with type type[] instead of type* < 1311747458 300944 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well, using static variables, not outside of functions. :P < 1311747462 985676 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um why < 1311747467 274500 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no difference < 1311747472 133556 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is more misleading really < 1311747472 921402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are different, according to this thing you linked me. < 1311747488 753625 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you probably mean to use a pointer. < 1311747569 937236 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't assigning the array to a pointer destroy the sizeof property? < 1311747601 186040 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that IS a problem. < 1311747640 702062 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: of course it does. < 1311747672 127776 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what I'm saying is that if I want to use that property then I should declare as type[] instead... < 1311747701 134689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to troll some of his C programmer friends now....
< 1311747712 330091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used interpreted C codes in a prepreprocessor to do some things related to types, and combined with macros and include files, to make initialization for different structures, copied, without duplication, indicated as a type, and so on. Maybe a bit like using "" style codes in C++ but different and with less stupid syntax < 1311747753 864097 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : as in templates or...? < 1311747755 34166 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Are you sure you understand it enough? < 1311747774 214153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I understand the difference between arrays and pointers now, which means I can troll that specifically. < 1311747807 392158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, I think < > is used for templates syntax in C++, which is dumb since it is also less than/greater than < 1311747870 826173 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now you understand difference. There is many difference, but "I should really be declaring with type type[] instead of type*" I don'r know. < 1311747916 94493 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type[], not type type[]... the first type is part of my sentence or whatever. :P < 1311747945 858812 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I understood that much. < 1311747956 559970 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean that I should declare like that ALL the time, just in those situations where the sizeof an array is valuable. < 1311747961 965269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there still something wrong with that? < 1311747965 752357 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, the C syntax for comments is also a bit dumb since /* even with no comments is not a syntax error, while // is a syntax error otherwise so it would be better idea using it as comments. < 1311747975 760884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your declaration is allocating room for the array, you should use [] obviously? < 1311748000 337283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..yes, I would say this is preferred. < 1311748008 453688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes using [ ] in declaration declares its space is the point. < 1311748013 468035 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you would not like Perl. :) < 1311748022 918912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because * only allocates the pointer. < 1311748049 990610 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't expect to assign directly to a [ ] type because that is not how array work in C. < 1311748064 425883 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, right. < 1311748079 944611 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of a malloc, but that is already a pointer anyways... < 1311748139 201116 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically a dynamically allocated array is not a "real" C array. < 1311748146 272291 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311748313 226289 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declarations such as char *p; fine OK to me, it make sense. However, thing such as char *p=q+1; is stupid is make no sense wirh the space in that position. < 1311748366 534404 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I omit the space in both cases however) < 1311748405 185704 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay so is a dynamically allocated array a pointer to an array or a pointer to the first element? second case, right? < 1311748446 400725 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311748461 896027 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no arrays involved here; calling it "dynamically allocated memory" might answer some questions. < 1311748472 859382 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right. < 1311748495 930607 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that becomes awkward to talk about. I think it still makes sense to talk about it as an array. < 1311748508 529900 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's... not one in the way that C defines it. < 1311748585 425007 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"loop through the dynamically allocated memory" instead of "loop through the array". But yeah, I see that calling it that is good to highlight the difference for educational purposes. < 1311748696 835514 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay, so another consequence of this is that dynamically allocated 2-dimensional "arrays" have to be manually subscripted via arithmetic instead of using the [][] notation. < 1311748711 18487 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1311748714 327418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you do them as pointers to pointers < 1311748762 887499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right. Instead of one malloc you have 1 + ncolumns mallocs. < 1311748809 673029 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers reading My Immortal
< 1311748824 689387 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried once before < 1311748836 562004 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you like it legitimately < 1311748866 851307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only C programming I have done involved a MUD codebase. So I suppose I could afford to skip knowing this distinction and still get away with it. < 1311748883 803018 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for... several years, actually. :P < 1311748931 278140 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, do you think my taste is that atrocious? < 1311748936 814983 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1311748945 663966 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :list.c:45: error: incompatible types when assigning to type ‘struct ’ from type ‘struct ’ < 1311748957 476455 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....hahaha < 1311748995 61847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, C has anonymous structs? < 1311749054 189848 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct { ... } < 1311749118 116075 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you assigning to type struct < 1311749130 267116 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : list = ((struct { typeof((list).empty[0]) empty[0]; GenericList *generic_list; }){ .empty = {}, .generic_list = generic_list_tail((list).generic_list) }); < 1311749131 230281 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct { int x; } s; < 1311749132 639282 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s.x = 0; < 1311749133 222780 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any questions < 1311749150 223129 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems that C doesn't unify anonymous structures with identical fields < 1311749151 547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1311749151 871417 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's.... interesting. < 1311749157 623004 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes this ten times harder than i expected :D < 1311749172 119083 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1311749174 14463 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just de-anonymize it? < 1311749176 615802 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is (typeof foo){ ... } a valid struct literal < 1311749176 980061 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no < 1311749217 215300 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: void pointers maybe? < 1311749237 625642 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311749278 294347 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, so you write .field = ...? < 1311749284 863518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen this before, ever. < 1311749322 298923 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting to wonder how much C you've used, tbh < 1311749325 502341 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is C99 < 1311749374 619383 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as much as I thought, apparently. < 1311749428 326278 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why can't you use named structs again? < 1311749433 790418 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro shit < 1311749438 524403 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... yes. < 1311749475 560716 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow that actually works hmm < 1311749490 261326 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, I don't really understand why that restricts you from naming the structs) < 1311749490 622331 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct, C doesn't unify structures. LLVM does, however. < 1311749499 38608 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not any more it doesn't. < 1311749499 946920 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, I'll accept "macro shit" as a valid reason. < 1311749507 748061 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-46.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: :( < 1311749544 642590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But fields of structures in LLVM cannot have names anyways) < 1311749599 301168 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :structs are almost like heterogenous arrays. Is this a valid characterization? < 1311749637 779909 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that really breaks that idea is that structs can't be subscripted.. < 1311749671 567005 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in memory it's the same structure as an array, except with heterogenous types. < 1311749692 39104 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct { int empty[0]; GenericList *generic_list; } list = ({ typeof((list).empty[0]) _list_cons_head_1 = (0); (typeof(list)){ .empty = {}, .generic_list = generic_list_cons(sizeof(_list_cons_head_1), (char *) &_list_cons_head_1, (({ typeof((list).empty[0]) _list_cons_head_0 = (9); (typeof(list)){ .empty = {}, .generic_list = generic_list_cons(sizeof(_list_cons_head_0), (char *) &_list_cons_head_0, (((typeof(list)){ .empty = {}, .generic_list = gener < 1311749692 183507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic_list_empty })).generic_list) }; })).generic_list) }; }); < 1311749692 336584 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (*((typeof((((typeof(list)){ .empty = {}, .generic_list = generic_list_tail((list).generic_list) })).empty[0]) *) generic_list_head((((typeof(list)){ .empty = {}, .generic_list = generic_list_tail((list).generic_list) })).generic_list))); < 1311749718 499990 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what is wrong with you. < 1311749722 547244 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro shit < 1311749754 468658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's shitting macros < 1311749754 600260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :int empty[0];???? < 1311749766 856727 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: for typeof. < 1311749769 74703 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sizeof. < 1311749769 937301 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi guys im back from being away did bad stuff happen < 1311749771 558338 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int is T < 1311749787 604588 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1311749811 220967 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero-element arrays can be very useful sometimes. < 1311749812 556010 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you can't just say... typeof(1)? < 1311749836 900866 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you can't just say... typeof((int)1)? :P < 1311749841 817564 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: int is T. < 1311749892 521178 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know what that means, then. You mean it's the type parameter in your macro shit? < 1311749895 767714 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311750006 851668 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just write T then? < 1311750006 975208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in LLVM, you could ensure different types having something like a last element of a structure of a type [0 x [1 x i8]], [0 x [2 x i8]], [0 x [3 x i8]], and so on, to make then unique if you wanted them different. < 1311750017 797089 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: thats totally not the cpp output. < 1311750020 649595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1311750036 271471 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Correct, C doesn't unify structures. LLVM does, however. < 1311750036 441067 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not any more it doesn't. < 1311750037 903027 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso btw < 1311750042 56544 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme details about this thing i know nothing about < 1311750055 697014 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't know, a week ago, when Chris's patch landed for LLVM 3.0 < 1311750114 985030 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not entirely sure why you have to do all of this typeof expansion stuff when you could just substitute T where you need the type T... < 1311750135 769781 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What patch is this? I like the feature of LLVM unifying structures, it is a useful feature < 1311750165 588072 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :being generic is for losers < 1311750171 262438 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because i dont know t < 1311750178 84205 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define List(T) struct { T empty[0]; GenericList *generic_list; } < 1311750178 265205 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define list_create(name) ((typeof(name)){ .empty = {}, .generic_list = generic_list_empty }) < 1311750178 317773 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define list_cons(head, tail) list_cons_(head, tail, __COUNTER__) < 1311750178 317938 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define list_cons_(head, tail, id) list_cons__(head, tail, id) < 1311750178 318053 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define list_cons__(head, tail, id) \ < 1311750178 591843 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ({ \ < 1311750180 723615 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : typeof((list).empty[0]) _list_cons_head_##id = (head); \ < 1311750181 655228 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :l o s e r < 1311750182 708468 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (typeof(list)){ \ < 1311750184 622623 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : .empty = {}, \ < 1311750186 720518 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : .generic_list = generic_list_cons(sizeof(_list_cons_head_##id), (char *) &_list_cons_head_##id, (tail).generic_list) \ < 1311750189 544403 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : }; \ < 1311750193 588719 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : }) < 1311750195 769812 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define list_head(list) (*((typeof((list).empty[0]) *) generic_list_head((list).generic_list))) < 1311750197 682671 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define list_tail(list) ((typeof(list)){ .empty = {}, .generic_list = generic_list_tail((list).generic_list) }) < 1311750200 597089 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to make better and also make working < 1311750213 605556 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it was more than a week ago < 1311750215 399742 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvm-commits/Week-of-Mon-20110704/123705.html < 1311750220 419169 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like the sort of stuff i wrote two years ago before i got sick of it < 1311750220 696191 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see. You use the zero-width array to carry the type information beyond the macro body. < 1311750267 412415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: caret to Deewiant < 1311750322 785361 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is there a discussion thread for that commit < 1311750334 98430 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1311750334 971222 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that only apply to named types? Or to anonymous types too? < 1311750349 726362 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thx < 1311750371 797711 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: It's something that's been on his todo list for a long time now < 1311750406 135136 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Anonymous types are uniqued by their contents < 1311750430 596390 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: void pointers. everywhere. < 1311750432 817906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That makes sense, now. < 1311750449 718522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: terrible casts, everywhere. < 1311750505 902753 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, an anonymous structure with the same types of elements should be considered to be same types, otherwise not? < 1311750526 77536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same types in the same order, I would think. < 1311750528 441112 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, otherwise the name is part of the identity < 1311750573 835466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it does make sense, now, then. < 1311750594 619152 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes it is what I meant < 1311750598 140763 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you could cast the anonymous structs to a named struct within each macro maybe? < 1311750612 991252 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using... magic unique naming skills? < 1311750628 871633 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define macro(x, y, keysmash) < 1311750667 332805 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everytime someone has to use your macros they must angrily smash alphanumeric characters into the last field to provide a unique name for the struct. < 1311750687 56226 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311750738 513714 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The typical trick is just __LINE__. < 1311750814 199389 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hygenic macros and no way to generate unique names? < 1311750817 723289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work if you must do it more than once in the same line, no? < 1311750836 288451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it wouldn't work if the cast was on a different line than the struct definition. < 1311750881 127533 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any better preprocessors < 1311750890 79286 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: m4? < 1311750906 996477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C? No. never. No one would ever write a C preprocessor. < 1311750934 439839 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :template C. < 1311750968 181529 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a macros that play waiting music as your code compiles. < 1311751001 705396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eine kleine nachtmakro < 1311751041 223021 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could also write macro compilers or something. < 1311751058 325858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it was basically like TH but for C, and without the strict typing. < 1311751065 150152 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :#playsound < 1311751096 537621 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1311751174 238570 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have #playnotes ABCBCBA < 1311751200 821657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would... play them all in equally spaced intervals? < 1311751212 445991 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uhmm.. a compilation visualizer? < 1311751239 807902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be pretty cool. < 1311751242 315803 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a music visualizer < 1311751254 204755 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe it could have the token stream fed into it < 1311751308 715000 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was imagining more of like an animation of the code text compiling into intermediate representations and then machine code. < 1311751326 587791 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: m4 is not for C. < 1311751375 344034 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can work with C < 1311751382 857028 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was defined for a C-like language < 1311751385 979178 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is probably a pretty good C preprocessor. < 1311751392 570477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1311751394 135083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: What about... Enhanced CWEB? It also includes a C interpreter, among other things. The C interpreter can send codes to the C compiler. And the program can even be printed out. < 1311751419 375162 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I suppose you can do so, if you wanted to < 1311751421 453536 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1311751431 149190 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could do a 3d visualization as like a factory < 1311751480 371111 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think m4 is not very good for C, though. But I maybe it will work if configured correctly for use with C. < 1311751482 497991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION declares Bourne the best C preprocessor.
< 1311751534 431451 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only C preprocessor that allows you to compile C code. < 1311751546 852876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... (blatantly not true, shhhhh) < 1311751549 193257 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any other code. < 1311751574 578613 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am interested in data re-representations.. i don't know a better words < 1311751578 477727 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^word < 1311751587 574597 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps interpretations is a better word < 1311751598 10759 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least I prefer CWEB, for writing my C codes < 1311751604 182621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like converting one data structure to another, yes? < 1311751614 545737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if you hate it instead) < 1311751621 870970 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows all of the codes.
< 1311751630 555630 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one example being converting music into visualizations. < 1311751662 500173 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a niche area < 1311751701 989375 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: try running aplay on a pdf or /dev/urandom < 1311751704 805919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311751710 340129 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens up my personal wiki
< 1311751726 763770 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: go write about it on your blag. < 1311751732 373439 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a winxp box. i've never had any form of *nix installed :-s < 1311751749 698998 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im that kind of person < 1311751770 939989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION types "aplay /dev/urandom" and listens to delicious pseudo white noise
< 1311751786 982416 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. i called the page bit field encoding < 1311751836 42735 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get a continuous tone by playing output of "yes" command, in Linux. < 1311751844 12937 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Wow, the only OS worse than *nix. < 1311751848 441234 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still in common use) < 1311751853 363106 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: what's the best way to seed random without using IO? < 1311751855 864406 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes is a good command < 1311751856 928002 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even such a way? < 1311751879 124559 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Wow, sure enough. < 1311751884 508132 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311751891 695404 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "yes" command can have many uses. < 1311751894 683587 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what do you mean IO? < 1311751900 488060 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean like in space invaders? :D < 1311751901 320681 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aplay <(yes) actually does that. < 1311751907 510517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Surely it is obvious? < 1311751914 903158 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no I was referring to < 1311751917 542163 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell actually. < 1311751922 898986 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, yes, it's obvious how it would do that. < 1311751925 669855 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh ok IO monad < 1311751943 169964 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's an oscillation between y and \n, which would, of course, produce a constant tone. < 1311751952 565031 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a very high frequency sin tone right? < 1311751959 233555 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of very high frequency. < 1311751968 510828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh, I forgot about the \n < 1311751978 54119 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it aliases. < 1311751980 235191 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half the sample rate. < 1311751987 778587 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah. < 1311752011 689570 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is the nyquist frequency, interesting. < 1311752016 51906 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aplay defaults to 8000 Hz sample rate, so it's a 4 kHz tone. < 1311752046 342239 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now use a 5200 Hz sample rate........ < 1311752078 440079 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, of course, does a 2.6 kHz tone. < 1311752090 392023 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this is a pic of the page in my private wiki: http://oi52.tinypic.com/wqsorr.jpg < 1311752093 284269 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311752188 185409 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote a program in Linux that generates many kinds of telephone signals. Including DTMF, silver box, red box, blue box, dial tone, busy signal, reorder, SIT, etc. < 1311752236 655840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including both American and Commonwealth ringback tones! And red box for many countries. < 1311752306 955633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you live in North America, program your computer to play the Commonwealth ringback tone when someone calls you............ < 1311752468 478569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing the string that yes outputs leads to fun things. < 1311752482 468897 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes `echo -ne "\255"` gives you the max amplitude signal. < 1311752513 98998 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then adding more characters adds more spectral qualities and lowers the frequency. < 1311752539 924382 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes `printf "\x255"` does so on POSIX systems. < 1311752544 619436 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311752549 757391 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311752556 340872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, '\x255' < 1311752586 154351 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default it's a triangle wave. < 1311752595 568204 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I bet you could get a sine tone. < 1311752665 142478 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmmm.. I think you might need floating point numbers for that. < 1311752695 729006 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311752739 839517 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a perfect sine tone, what you need is infinite-bit sampling. < 1311752753 182 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's obviously not what I mean though. < 1311752781 286500 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there will be no notable benefit to floating point over integer samples if both are bounded. < 1311752814 456485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (toEnum.(+10).(*245).sin) [1..] < 1311752815 29868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int) < 1311752815 101338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of... < 1311752827 506015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (toEnum.(+10).(*245).round.sin) [1..] < 1311752828 788531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [*Exception: Prelude.Enum.().toEnum: bad argument < 1311752849 527614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lol < 1311752852 540821 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311752857 850654 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to get the sequence of characters to generate a sine tone. < 1311752874 848705 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sequence of characters, anyways. < 1311752891 721210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (toEnum.(+10).(*245).round.sin) [1..] :: [Char] < 1311752893 15877 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\255\255\n*Exception: Prelude.chr: bad argument: (-235) < 1311752908 58045 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311752912 983819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be unsigned. < 1311752989 438480 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (toEnum.abs.round.(+10).(*245).sin) [1..] :: [Char] < 1311752990 783782 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\216\233-\175\225:\171\252o{\235yq\253\169=\226\174/\234\215\b\197\212\SYN... < 1311752996 19289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not going to be right though. < 1311753198 400378 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (toEnum.abs.round.(+10).(*245).sin.(/(25*pi))) [1..] :: [Char] < 1311753199 665431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\r\DLE\DC3\SYN\SUB\GS #&),/259 < 1311753957 490395 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GameOfLifeInitialState = CA (repeat Dead) (repeat Dead) (repeat Dead) (repeat Dead) Dead < 1311753985 89155 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were a live cell on infinite n-dimensional planes of dead cells, it'd be kinda creepy < 1311753988 387753 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... no. < 1311753989 900744 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I doing. < 1311753998 640209 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol that just makes a cross-shaped automaton. < 1311754012 880164 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: maybe you are.. thats why its creepy < 1311754048 977515 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O dee mee! < 1311754052 77651 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how to represent a zipper in 2D < 1311754061 624985 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zipper of zippers? < 1311754077 275591 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its elegant looking code you have there anyway < 1311754083 499108 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suspecting recursion is the answer < 1311754104 50540 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. repeat is how I generate the infinite list, and repeat is recursive. < 1311754104 618059 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must remember to not forget about studying haskell < 1311754130 765617 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat x = x : repeat x < 1311754159 592166 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fix (x:) :P < 1311754293 866801 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so I'd have data Zipper t = Zipper {left :: [t], right :: [t], current :: t} < 1311754315 539098 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then type CA t = Zipper (Zipper t) < 1311754369 354876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I could define shiftLeft, shiftRight, shiftUp, shiftDown. < 1311754522 140708 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1311754576 23895 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen a zipper in 2d before < 1311754580 114118 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be misremembering though < 1311754644 784091 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with defining it as a zipper of zippers is that each sub-zipper has its own cursor or whatever its called. < 1311754650 224893 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not quite what I want. < 1311754813 304989 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I indeed misremembered. oops. < 1311754845 87029 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could map the shift operation to each sub-zipper whenever you move left/right < 1311754864 965636 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems pretty inefficient. < 1311754879 266152 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a little bit < 1311755033 893381 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311755040 602984 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1311756227 636230 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311756359 556062 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print 2 >> 1 < 1311756361 864205 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1311756368 60270 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print 3 >> 1 < 1311756368 401610 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1311756577 576563 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey I've found a use for bitwise shift. < 1311756713 458821 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would use it when constructing a hidden message from the least significant bits of some other data. < 1311756951 424226 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311757045 482146 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311757126 956463 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds a bit unlikely, given that you don't need a bitshift to set, clear or extract the least significant bit. < 1311757159 945967 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming you have bitwise ands and ors and the other usual fluff.) < 1311757210 587278 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you meant for putting the bits together, I guess. < 1311757668 976553 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that Java is one of the most popular languages out there < 1311757676 452744 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has absolutely no support for higher-order functions < 1311757678 576428 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :baffles me. < 1311757723 389731 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and right, putting them together with and requires shifting the bits to the right location. < 1311757737 537464 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... with or actually. < 1311757756 13149 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :extracting with and. < 1311757793 741731 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should implement class-based versions of map and filter in Java.
< 1311757798 78158 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambdas are coming in Java 8. < 1311757803 951577 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to use an anonymous class everytime. < 1311757833 423337 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so I'm assuming support for lambdas also includes support for function types? < 1311757841 191632 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nno, of course not. :p < 1311757856 290939 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly just a syntactic thing to make the anonymous-class solution less verbose. < 1311757856 996255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you'd just define the lambda and it would uh... sit there and do nothing. < 1311757862 983321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..oh, really? damnit. < 1311757878 225813 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least C# has delegates, I mean really. < 1311757878 573995 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lambda types are "convertible" to any class with a single public method that has a compatible parameter list, approximately. < 1311757883 606082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Glossing over the details here.) < 1311757887 724251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so stupid. < 1311757905 707321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just steal delegates and call it something else. < 1311757929 856871 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would suppose it's so that you can actually use the lambdas in all the existing APIs that have been written to take objects implementing single-method interfaces. < 1311757940 913630 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runnable and such. < 1311757952 498164 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, but they could also just add new constructors for those methods that take lambda parameters. < 1311757957 917831 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for those classes < 1311757992 4031 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't add to Java interfaces. < 1311758009 198310 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existing ones, I mean. Because otherwise all existing implementations would start complaining about missing methods. < 1311758033 112656 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't put anything new in the Collection interface for example, without ruining everyone else's collections. < 1311758050 719442 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lame. < 1311758065 107155 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# actually has a pretty well-thought out standard API. < 1311758102 33065 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's I think why the have the Collections class with all those static methods, because you can easily stick stuff in there. (Except of course you can't then override that stuff in custom-built containers or anything.) < 1311758130 179620 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also a proposal for "extension methods" that would work around the above thing up to some degree, not sure if that's planned for Java 8 too.) < 1311758142 365171 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Func<> for example... which has a bunch of overloads. Func, Func, Func. < 1311758150 73957 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you use Action<> if the return type is void. < 1311758255 752979 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's just an alternative to writing your own delegate types. < 1311758315 989866 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :delegate int FrameWorkManagerCallBackEnterpriseyCruft(int a, int b) < 1311758341 638918 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can declare variables of type FrameWorkManagerCallBackEnterpriseyCruft, and assign any method that matches that signature. < 1311758355 132291 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :variables/method parameters < 1311758429 794833 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also += will append methods to a list that is executed when the delegate variable is called. Which I'm sure makes writing event-based code ridiculously simple. < 1311758462 426531 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you need to explicitly test against an empty delegate list when calling, IIRC. < 1311758479 44936 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you do? < 1311758521 476922 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1311758526 434235 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's always "if (blah != null) blah();" in all code that wants to call all the blah-handlers. < 1311758547 598325 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to test for null. Though some people on Stack Overflow recommend adding an empty method to remove that check. < 1311758580 298821 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Overflow = reliable community of programming masters. < 1311758625 933565 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also use the poorly named "null-coalescing operator" and write blah?? blah() < 1311758727 989246 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah "you have to test for null a lot" is a common annoyance of many languages that have nullable types. < 1311758734 646013 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what confused-looking operator. < 1311758769 950533 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I prefer Perl's //, but that's because I'm a Perl fanboy. < 1311758783 855377 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does the exact same thing. < 1311758846 711740 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erkwerjwejr < 1311758854 263911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : // is probably Perl's most important contribution to the future of OO programming. :P < 1311758874 867716 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C# will get all of the credit. :( < 1311758908 426080 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the former Java programmers switching to C# will be like "woah that's probably the best idea for an operator ever, C# designers." < 1311758909 770685 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :// is also a bit silly-looking. What, it's the || except on a windy day? (Still, I suppose they're running out of sensible operators.) < 1311758941 673133 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm not really sure about the choice of symbol. I suppose ?? actually kind of makes some sense. < 1311758985 268917 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, an operator is just a sequence of symbols. They're not really suggestive by themselves. Only through convention do you associate || with or in the first place. < 1311758986 308861 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall that some drafts of Perl 6 made the ternary operator be "$a ?? $b :: $c", doubling the ? and : for some reason. < 1311759001 736403 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird. < 1311759016 212585 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 is destroying Perl's golfability. :P < 1311759067 962224 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many characters to do things. < 1311759106 766863 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than 4 characters for a function/method name or 2 characters for a symbolic operator is unacceptable. < 1311759153 712874 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So <=> is unacceptable?-) < 1311759163 97079 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally. < 1311759187 928084 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, cmp is acceptable. < 1311759189 969272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sense? < 1311759201 494400 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sure, whatev." < 1311759265 322972 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should rewrite Haskell's Prelude for golfing. < 1311759282 29415 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have everything with very short names, and any two-argument functions as operators. < 1311759316 480821 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id < 1311759317 124265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1311759317 198538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1311759320 985136 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id + id < 1311759321 755824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1311759321 828622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1311759333 570527 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :caleskell is interesting. < 1311759351 939491 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t id - id < 1311759352 592255 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1311759361 787269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even do. < 1311759430 136114 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id - id $ 42 < 1311759430 838677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1311759436 782560 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily. < 1311759477 30370 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id - id $ True < 1311759477 855314 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Bool.Bool) < 1311759477 907630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `GHC.N... < 1311759486 294579 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it does the other "intuitive" thing when summing. < 1311759490 92485 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id + id $ 42 < 1311759490 619313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1311759492 605265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 84 < 1311759494 702702 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1311759523 735093 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes writing pointlessly easy. < 1311759539 364211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ((*2) + (*4)) [1..] < 1311759540 122613 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [6,12,18,24,30,36,42,48,54,60,66,72,78,84,90,96,102,108,114,120,126,132,138... < 1311759579 33640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2*sin < 1311759579 792740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1311759579 846324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1311759580 950670 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311759592 833360 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const 2*sin 4 < 1311759593 779410 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (b -> t) < 1311759593 852533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1311759608 97957 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (const 2*sin) 4 < 1311759609 2350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.5136049906158564 < 1311759620 295895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah signal processing. < 1311759948 563805 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so I'm wondering if it would be bad to use the same seed value everytime I want to generate white noise... < 1311759965 233834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise I would have to use IO to generate a white noise signal. < 1311759992 140529 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could just pass the seed parameter to the generator... < 1311760122 406209 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure using the same seed everytime would not degrade the quality of the white noise produced, at least to the human ear. < 1311760160 45421 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll have one with a seed parameter, one without, and one that is in IO < 1311760208 965833 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by "write" I mostly mean "use the ones that are already there" < 1311760882 286811 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> [a] < 1311760882 585347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude repeat :: a -> [a] < 1311760882 637586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List repeat :: a -> [a] < 1311760882 637667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude iterate :: (a -> a) -> a -> [a] < 1311760976 613687 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate succ >=> iterate pred $ 1 < 1311760977 239199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,0,-1,-2,-3,-4,-5,-6,-7,-8,-9,-10,-11,-12,-13,-14,-15,-16,-17,-18,-19,-20... < 1311760997 823342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate succ >=> take 3 . iterate pred $ 1 < 1311760999 121885 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,0,-1,2,1,0,3,2,1,4,3,2,5,4,3,6,5,4,7,6,5,8,7,6,9,8,7,10,9,8,11,10,9,12,1... < 1311762587 586547 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311762770 559876 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311762775 972928 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311762997 844879 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311764340 833383 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311764351 436842 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311765454 692115 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311767888 843572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311768501 472795 :benuphoenix!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311768538 771678 :benuphoenix!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have the ruleset for the irc-based nomic called Canada? < 1311768611 840317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, and the other two people who might plausibly have it (elliott and Vorpal) aren't here right now < 1311768661 554909 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex_ wouldn't plausibly have it? < 1311768741 455029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I can't remember if he was around back then < 1311768900 666584 :benuphoenix!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex was there < 1311770479 825111 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if a wireless network messaging protocol would be a slightly good thing, or a very very bad thing < 1311770579 27514 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1311774335 45212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, does Befunge-98 have any libraries/fingerprints for doing object-oriented programming yet? < 1311774432 917303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic came up in another channel < 1311774884 868946 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's FOBJ in the RC/Funge, it's sort-of like that. < 1311774887 841347 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcfunge2_manual.html#FOBJ < 1311774909 245265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t shiftL < 1311774909 828711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Bits a) => a -> Int -> a < 1311774926 620029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, that's what I was looking for < 1311774931 611356 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoL yeah.. MoL yeah.. < 1311774947 240852 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (|) < 1311774947 898505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `|' < 1311774966 848643 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er whats bitwise or? < 1311775176 594635 :benuphoenix!~sidhe@beowulf.benuphoenix.com QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311775207 22629 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Bits < 1311775207 166406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Data.Bits < 1311775207 218858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Bits class Num a => Bits a < 1311775207 219060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Bits bitSize :: Bits a => a -> Int < 1311775211 555202 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :.|., isn't it? < 1311775215 296518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311775218 915467 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.|.) < 1311775219 489839 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Bits a) => a -> a -> a < 1311775224 507156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.&.) < 1311775225 77440 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence `.&.' < 1311775225 130623 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `Data.Bits..&.', imported from Data.Bits < 1311775225 130818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : or `Test.QuickCheck..&.', imported from Test.QuickCheck < 1311775232 983935 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a middle finger. < 1311775236 480135 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(o Y o) < 1311775255 368923 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Data.Bits.(.&.)) < 1311775255 976760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1311775270 738976 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Data.Bits..&.) < 1311775271 336406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Bits a) => a -> a -> a < 1311775279 609569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that syntax is weird to me. < 1311775299 124679 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 Data.Bits..&. 4 < 1311775299 729401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1311775299 801497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Bits.Bits a' < 1311775299 854276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1311775310 980445 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 Data.Bits..&. 4 :: Int < 1311775311 642172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1311775391 827143 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prettiest thing since sliced bread. < 1311775465 151110 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.^.) < 1311775465 756324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `.^.' < 1311775469 908255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what's xor? < 1311775479 379162 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Bits a) => a -> a -> a < 1311775479 669273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Bits (.&.) :: Bits a => a -> a -> a < 1311775479 721159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Bits (.|.) :: Bits a => a -> a -> a < 1311775479 721323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Bits xor :: Bits a => a -> a -> a < 1311775552 341366 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let mul a b = if a == 0 then b else let c = b Data.Bits..&. a in mul (c `shiftL` 1) (b `xor` a) in mul 8 8 < 1311775552 904010 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1311775552 976278 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Bits.Bits a' < 1311775553 29466 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1311775571 206433 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let mul :: Int -> Int -> Int; mul a b = if a == 0 then b else let c = b Data.Bits..&. a in mul (c `shiftL` 1) (b `xor` a) in mul 8 8 < 1311775571 754510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16 < 1311775578 19722 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..not quite. < 1311775671 977265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I think I defined addition actually. < 1311775679 488162 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let mul :: Int -> Int -> Int; mul a b = if a == 0 then b else let c = b Data.Bits..&. a in mul (c `shiftL` 1) (b `xor` a) in add 2 2 < 1311775680 86823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `add' < 1311775694 391668 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let add :: Int -> Int -> Int; add a b = if a == 0 then b else let c = b Data.Bits..&. a in add (c `shiftL` 1) (b `xor` a) in add 2 2 < 1311775694 951788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1311775698 69981 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1311775753 51593 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to make it look better. < 1311775932 687321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let add :: Int -> Int -> Int; add 0 b = b; add a b = let c = b Data.Bits..&. a in add ((`shiftL` 1) . b Data.Bits..&. a) (b `xor` a) in foldl1 add [1..100] < 1311775933 374456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `f a' < 1311775933 426726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1311775954 198607 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let add :: Int -> Int -> Int; add 0 b = b; add a b = let c = b Data.Bits..&. a in add ((`shiftL` 1) . (b Data.Bits..&. a)) (b `xor` a) in foldl1 add [1..100] < 1311775955 40689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `f a' < 1311775955 111836 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1311776016 559906 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1311776055 128143 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let add :: Int -> Int -> Int; add 0 b = b; add a b = let c = b Data.Bits..&. a in add ((b Data.Bits..&. a) `shiftL` 1) (b `xor` a) in foldl1 add [1..100] < 1311776055 724454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5050 < 1311776330 508961 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let add :: Int -> Int -> Int; add 0 b = b; add a b = add ((b Data.Bits..&. a) `shiftL` 1) (b `xor` a) in foldl1 add [1..100] < 1311776331 209244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5050 < 1311776335 280807 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to remove the let. < 1311776883 691458 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311777289 880673 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wurst multiplier: < 1311777292 131247 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let mul :: Int -> Int -> Int; mul a b = let i = [0 .. (bitSize a - 1)] in sum $ map (\i -> if testBit a i then b `shiftL` i else 0) i in mul 17 19 < 1311777292 736459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 323 < 1311777993 413843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My score playing Barbu: -289. Supposedly, this is good for someone playing for the first time < 1311778829 851038 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311780151 318277 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear website: Rejecting an email address due to capital letters is pants-on-head retarded. < 1311780246 469779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's stupid < 1311780252 869933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your email provider case-insensitive? < 1311780267 675433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit after the @ is, the bit before the @ is up to the provider but the vast majority interpret it as case-insensitive < 1311780269 985284 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was my dad trying to use the website < 1311780328 224857 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It autocompletes with a capital in the first part. Before I proved to myself that that was the issue, I suggested it to him, but the... form thingy replaced the lower-case with the capital < 1311780333 420923 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpap.com < 1311780735 242879 :chickenzilla!~zack@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311781257 480766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyone have the ruleset for the irc-based nomic called Canada? < 1311781257 652631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't, and the other two people who might plausibly have it (elliott and Vorpal) aren't here right now < 1311781260 267714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... < 1311781261 141012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311781267 832278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope I don't think so < 1311781285 424548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue where to look even < 1311782285 940548 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311782299 983771 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-137.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311782791 744887 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311783376 165108 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311783425 947855 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what problem? < 1311783563 365222 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the dynamic one < 1311786060 317251 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1311786085 698487 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311788760 772054 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311788806 736758 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311789202 742995 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311790007 39429 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311790108 59010 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311790595 376723 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311791654 513610 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :things I hate about eating chicken: the parts of the chicken consisting of mystery meat instead of chicken < 1311791813 302130 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like you're eating wyngz. < 1311791850 774823 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate mystery meat < 1311792018 887813 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsure if all of it even counts as meat, but that's part of the mystery I guess < 1311792069 717598 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eating causes cancer < 1311792108 998049 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cancer causes eating < 1311792136 559356 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :work kills.. everybody who has some some work has died < 1311792145 307503 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :*done some < 1311792158 147870 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :working causes cancer < 1311792400 4908 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1311792742 873434 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1311793922 964723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311795883 359175 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311795896 572740 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311795972 535278 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, change of plan < 1311795974 973853 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1311796016 167895 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311796032 53293 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311796298 391821 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1311796796 406988 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311796880 763614 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone remember kilgame? I think it was created by pikhq or oklopol or lament or a similar person. < 1311796957 384287 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311796961 769059 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311797030 40128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello" < 1311797173 718114 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, things are happening in the world < 1311797356 78655 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, nothing is happening "in the world" < 1311797435 530606 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are < 1311797454 352605 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convection currents are flowing around in the mantle < 1311797591 811387 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's happened again < 1311797723 318201 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm freakin' insane < 1311798693 4077 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311801720 676824 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1311802712 959220 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311802929 215500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311803151 544695 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1311803167 57563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi *hides behind rock* < 1311803177 897384 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still don't remember my name? < 1311803208 275447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :det ville vært rart < 1311803227 359913 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fucking tattooed it between my angle brackets just so people would remember it < 1311803268 81433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you've dropped one of them, i can see clearly there is no < < 1311803312 585022 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme check my mirror < 1311803324 874928 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:48:43] hi < 1311803324 927653 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:48:43] hi < 1311803325 39394 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:48:45] checking < 1311803325 111595 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:48:45] checking < 1311803326 613603 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's there < 1311803344 39571 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be going blind in one eye < 1311803386 333342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1311803720 59498 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll go blind in both eyes for a few hours now, see you tomorrow if it's temporary -> < 1311803838 326575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1311804063 338298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not entirely sure how to represent a zipper in 2D < 1311804076 236447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously he wants to start with a quadtree. < 1311804095 75754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now he'll NEVER know *MWAHAHAHA* < 1311805113 789385 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311805165 4131 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311805219 82380 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qkksvnrlvbmtdrqi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311806733 899519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that recent post on godel's lost letter seems to have brought up many quips in the comments... < 1311806773 917339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'In a discussion on Google+ on why it is superior to Twitter someone commented: “I would go so far as to say that almost any idea that can be expressed in 140 characters is too trivial, and not worth expressing."' < 1311806837 566587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the subject being "Self-defeating sentences") < 1311806913 22348 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311806969 337972 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mkqcrbmcscuplkaj JOIN :#esoteric < 1311807126 549027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311807318 947461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppe, < 1311807443 178160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pannekaker med ertesuppe < 1311807456 518912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(og bacon) < 1311807620 462868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:13:12: But you can't add to Java interfaces. < 1311807620 639353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:13:29: Existing ones, I mean. Because otherwise all existing implementations would start complaining about missing methods. < 1311807620 691658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:13:53: So you can't put anything new in the Collection interface for example, without ruining everyone else's collections. < 1311807620 691820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:15:02: That's I think why the have the Collections class with all those static methods, because you can easily stick stuff in there. (Except of course you can't then override that stuff in custom-built containers or anything.) < 1311807627 203570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: see expression problem < 1311807667 299756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :java doesn't even _try_ to have a solution to it, i think. < 1311807707 27055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um the expression problem was originally formulated and solved for GJ by its creators < 1311807713 516492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GJ = Generic Java, which was merged into Java in the fifth version < 1311807726 586532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution isn't how any Java code or libraries are structured, mind you < 1311807737 139752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311807765 827512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:45:48: okay so I'm wondering if it would be bad to use the same seed value everytime I want to generate white noise... < 1311807766 104027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what RandomR is for < 1311807767 471506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle random < 1311807767 584126 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package random < 1311807767 636679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Random random :: (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> (a, g) < 1311807767 636832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module System.Random < 1311807771 621296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well RandomGen < 1311807784 399936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:08:58: anyone have the ruleset for the irc-based nomic called Canada? < 1311807784 546820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what < 1311807788 375360 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mkqcrbmcscuplkaj QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311807853 494271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:01:20: Does anyone remember kilgame? I think it was created by pikhq or oklopol or lament or a similar person. < 1311807854 917877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; lament < 1311807857 142877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: < 1311807895 4667 :subleq!~gavin@corp.fusionbox.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311807905 827060 :subleq!~gavin@corp.fusionbox.com PART :#esoteric < 1311807946 135373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi subleq bye subleq < 1311808176 689427 :subleq!~gavin@corp.fusionbox.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311808181 389168 :subleq!~gavin@corp.fusionbox.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, i'll say hi < 1311808198 336012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1311808340 933486 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311808490 385506 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311808514 998952 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311808584 117267 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have idea what I (and my brother) might try next in D&D game I was playing? < 1311808803 156559 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> flip concatMap xs (\x -> ' ' : case x of ' ' -> 'space'; _ -> x)) < 1311808803 718926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1311808803 795020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at chara... < 1311808815 344471 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> flip concatMap xs (\x -> ' ' : case x of ' ' -> "space"; _ -> [x])) < 1311808818 833589 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311809284 770967 :subleq!~gavin@corp.fusionbox.com QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311809416 850802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> ' ' : flip concatMap xs ((++" ").(\x -> ' ' : case x of ' ' -> "space"; _ -> [x]))) < 1311809418 178160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : " space space s p a c e space space s p a c e space space ... < 1311809431 721221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311809443 165431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> ' ' : flip concatMap xs ((++" ").(\x -> case x of ' ' -> "space"; _ -> [x]))) < 1311809444 402236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : " space s p a c e space s space p space a space c space e space s p a c e s... < 1311809522 459924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ^ that what you wanted out? < 1311809526 213938 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311809536 451246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces of paces < 1311809537 828580 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1311809592 706417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> ' ' : unwords (flip concatMap xs (\x -> case x of ' ' -> "space"; _ -> [x]))) < 1311809593 308404 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' < 1311809593 361566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred ty... < 1311809596 27009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311809614 982846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\xs -> ' ' : unwords (flip map xs (\x -> case x of ' ' -> "space"; _ -> [x]))) < 1311809618 560316 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1311809621 795623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311809656 755842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would that be different < 1311809690 653184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 1 . unwords $ ('x':undefined) : undefined < 1311809691 976411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311809694 170981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you realise eval is non-deterministic? < 1311809698 737480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could just be slow < 1311809702 548159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 1 . unwords $ "x" : undefined < 1311809703 842908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311809720 696572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but i more suspect unwords is insufficiently lazy < 1311809725 79945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src unwords < 1311809725 132819 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unwords [] = "" < 1311809725 185584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unwords ws = foldr1 (\w s -> w ++ ' ':s) ws < 1311809753 406845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that doesn't look strict < 1311809871 626226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unwords $ "x" : undefined < 1311809872 275303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311809901 189302 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311809915 819279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let unwords [] = ""; unwords ws = foldr1 (\w s -> w ++ ' ':s) ws in unwords $ "x" : undefined < 1311809917 182386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311809925 633681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311809969 417246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "x" ++ undefined < 1311809970 753539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "x*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311809981 236728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 'x' ++ undefined < 1311809981 875476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Char) < 1311809981 927951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1311809986 205554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311810003 844776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "x" ++ ' ':undefined < 1311810005 106516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "x *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311810043 866364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let unwords ws = foldr1 (\w s -> w ++ ' ':s) ws in unwords $ "x" : undefined < 1311810045 252832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311810091 731680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr1 (\w s -> w ++ ' ':s) $ "x" : undefined < 1311810093 82768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311810113 436095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr1 (\w s -> w ++ b:s) $ [a] : undefined < 1311810114 700295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1311810122 136526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldr1 < 1311810122 204143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr1 _ [x] = x < 1311810122 256709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr1 f (x:xs) = f x (foldr1 f xs) < 1311810122 256891 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr1 _ [] = undefined < 1311810138 423710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh it's foldr1 which is not lazy of course < 1311810153 45438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to handle the exact [x] case specially < 1311810223 869891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by writing in terms of that, unwords becomes a tiny bit less lazy than necessary. < 1311810225 594288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c: In function ‘T.167’: < 1311810225 738849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c:246: error: ‘current_chunk$z’ may be used uninitialized in this function < 1311810225 791488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c:246: error: ‘current_chunk$x’ may be used uninitialized in this function < 1311810225 791669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c: In function ‘world_handle_chunk’: < 1311810225 791782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c:246: error: ‘current_chunk.z’ may be used uninitialized in this function < 1311810226 601393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :world.c:246: error: ‘current_chunk.x’ may be used uninitialized in this function < 1311810230 670479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what < 1311810254 155235 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zsqcpczyqvldgsgx JOIN :#esoteric < 1311810289 779084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your shitty macros? < 1311810312 956715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, chunks, that's mc isn't it < 1311810446 668282 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to think of the next session of my D&D game. Maybe we should kick the stunned kuo-toas off of the ship, but maybe the wall is too high. Maybe we should ask them try to figure out where the ship is going and stuff, but maybe now they think we are crazy and won't tell us; we just have to wait. Maybe they need the uniform back, but the old clothes have been burned. < 1311810454 876196 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is difficult. < 1311810636 81928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mcmap, yes < 1311810642 814118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dollar sign stuff was what wow'd me < 1311810646 336185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the T.167. < 1311810979 647935 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311810984 119397 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311811032 186038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311811099 328633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles evilly
< 1311811101 572952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, hi < 1311811264 82957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: g or uppercase or C, which < 1311811268 69674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(notuppercase) < 1311811319 383973 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311811342 882545 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311811354 614823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes? < 1311811358 829483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1311811398 156931 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311811514 371551 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311811851 790751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The natural progression is 1) fear the type system, it barfs at me and I don't get it; 2) respect the type system, it seems to catch a lot of stupid stuff; 3) use the type system, if I think about it a little I can harness it to catch pretty non-trivial bugs in my code; 4) abuse the type system, use fundeps and undecidable instances to create possibly very complex type-level hackery to check invariants at compile time." < 1311811855 772008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, i am a level four haskell programmer < 1311811991 724825 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :c0pumpk1n < 1311812143 846670 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5) Oleg. < 1311812378 338589 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Haskell allow you to have incomplete type declarations that you can add stuff on many times later on? < 1311812423 188573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what you mean < 1311812433 88798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeclasses are a version of that < 1311812439 582778 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zsqcpczyqvldgsgx QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311812449 518780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes < 1311812526 145345 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311812531 21670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i mean if I make it g < 1311812533 818334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how g do i make it < 1311812570 342220 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make a union that adds later things it can be later on, or a record type that can add more fields later on? < 1311812587 224243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Haskell doesn't really have those as separate concepts, but yes and no < 1311812598 582159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot extend a "data" type (ADT) for various important reasons, but you can achieve the same effect < 1311812604 711284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguably it should be easier, but yes, it is possible) < 1311812605 678089 :c0pumpk1n!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311812683 344547 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311812738 792528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: here's an example: http://sprunge.us/RYUY < 1311812765 707606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard Control.Exception module is a much more advanced and flexible version of this, http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Control-Exception.html < 1311812817 826054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not too much. "a constant 16 g for a minute, however, may be deadly." < 1311812841 39241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so would i make loop index g? < 1311812884 936547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: looping is not recommended, i think. < 1311812913 232312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'A typical person can handle about 5 g (49 m/s²) before losing consciousness ("G-LOC"), but through the combination of special g-suits and efforts to strain muscles—both of which act to force blood back into the brain—modern pilots can typically handle a sustained 9 g (88 m/s²) (see High-G training.' < 1311812918 630901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*)' < 1311812927 393672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311812931 991827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx towards thou < 1311813114 733674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_Coaster < 1311813156 348901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing scares me, i mean, it's cool i guess < 1311813158 436818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just terrifies me < 1311813178 210213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if i was at the top of the first slope somehow accidentally and i couldn't get off < 1311813245 700492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help im on euthanasia coaster and i cant get off < 1311813256 252804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: jump < 1311813351 204206 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always get mixed up with euthanasia and ecstasy < 1311813371 4099 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecstacy in which sense of the word < 1311813373 129953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure some will tell you it's practically the same thing. < 1311813397 664738 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: every sense < 1311813401 217029 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eve < 1311813401 904896 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1311813410 967078 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Subsequent inversions would serve as insurance against unintentional survival of passengers." good sentence < 1311813421 378850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best. < 1311813427 838674 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's getting early < 1311813432 647165 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1311813506 350358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb the backwards living one. < 1311813692 668697 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311813774 89546 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree with Taneb on that one < 1311813778 318340 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311813846 227853 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that stuff about extending the incomplete types and stuff could also be partly done using some kind of preprocessor < 1311813854 759793 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbitnymqyrqwyhmg JOIN :#esoteric < 1311813860 666952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i only notice FireFly when he's leaving, it's not fair. < 1311813874 452694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my swatter needs exercise, dammit! < 1311813946 235229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats tswett -----###
< 1311813946 325372 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then swat the wall and see if it breaks < 1311813966 842217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i went for the alliterative solution. < 1311814171 292241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswatt < 1311814369 306280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a vim and/or Emacs scripts can be made for use with TeXnicard, in order to do syntax highlighting and possibly for adding cards and GUID based on what you specify, and so on. In case, it would help some people who like it this way. < 1311815335 681436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle fromRight < 1311815335 752247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1311815338 173940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle either < 1311815338 312215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude either :: (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> Either a b -> c < 1311815338 364609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Either either :: (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> Either a b -> c < 1311815338 364795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Data.Either < 1311815395 264514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also some MonadError instance, i think < 1311815414 319859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that doesn't really help with that < 1311815445 990764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t maybe < 1311815446 525528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b < 1311815450 924112 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromMaybe < 1311815451 465409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> Maybe a -> a < 1311815455 525302 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, crud < 1311815461 404496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1311815467 704616 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is now a web page listing my RL name right next to "Sgeo" < 1311815472 928952 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.barbu.co.uk/rankings/player_naming.htm < 1311815476 18900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no fromEither equivalent, i guess < 1311815538 649968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are doomed now. they will kidnap you and force you to take a genuine education. < 1311815585 766585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN YOU BARBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1311815603 979228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wanna say that Sgeo_'s use of "crud" is hilarious < 1311815688 579137 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311816150 753968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"da" < 1311816158 91282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: qoantism, < 1311816162 488910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh dam < 1311816183 294420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said, "qwertyuio and" then... the suspense begin < 1311816205 233121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what qoantism is. although it reminds me that in pre-classical latin, q was sometimes used in front of o as well. < 1311816220 771352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc. < 1311816263 714418 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is q used in front of o as well in pre-classical latin, meant? < 1311816267 446265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "da" is the imperative form meaning "give", iirc < 1311816272 492180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\def\afspace#1#2{\if\isempty{#2}#1{}\else\expandafter#1\expandafter{\identity#2}\fi} < 1311816336 324883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well in classical and later lating q was only used in front of u, as is still mostly the case in english... < 1311816339 778698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*latin < 1311816383 833132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it was pronounced approximately the same as c, so spelling varied. < 1311816404 553827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan felt the starin of carbon dioxide death < 1311816424 372903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat again < 1311816456 611910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i get close to wondering if elliott is doing drugs. < 1311816458 870138 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just recently I showed someone one of my TeX files for some purpose, and they told me "Why don't you use a real file type? Such as .txt or .7z" < 1311816477 490107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: good grief :P < 1311816494 857582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im better than durgs < 1311816544 691197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait - are THEY making you take drugs? say it isn't so!!!!!!!!!1111ælve < 1311816582 864017 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tell me that my .tex file is "not a real file". What?? < 1311816598 604847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they are either trolling or genuinely clueless < 1311816670 23782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one, can be hard to tell without much more information. < 1311816676 431316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/ld: /home/elliott/.cabal/lib/york-lava-0.2/ghc-7.0.4/libHSyork-lava-0.2.a(Lava.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `.data' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC < 1311816676 604766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/.cabal/lib/york-lava-0.2/ghc-7.0.4/libHSyork-lava-0.2.a: could not read symbols: Bad value < 1311816677 298193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1311816695 813166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably because it won't open when they double click it < 1311816741 135960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hm if it's what elliott says, then maybe you can add a mime type, if it's on the web. < 1311816776 174517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that necessarily helps if they're that clueless < 1311816806 604570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH THIS SUCKS < 1311816843 448188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in the other direction, sometimes i get annoyed by my browser insisting on saving code which i just want to view as text, because of filetype and/or extension < 1311816854 747130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it text/plain < 1311817097 123037 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311817148 517478 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311817508 483112 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229130233.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311817544 662772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the difference http://i.imgur.com/vHLx5.jpg < 1311817593 983166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im zombie < 1311817628 831917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one feels too close to home for me http://i.imgur.com/zBD2S.jpg < 1311817660 397107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is worse is that i anticipated the punchline < 1311817684 662751 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the guy on the left has ripped clothing and is larger (in the first picture) < 1311817688 853714 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1311817697 40338 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :France used to have the best weather guy < 1311817716 201264 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1311817721 587191 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude almost died on air D: < 1311817726 351931 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWRkWp7n_ew < 1311817766 959685 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pretty weird < 1311817779 909304 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not dying < 1311817784 184378 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :But cancer acting up and all < 1311817872 415647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your guy is cooler < 1311817887 436904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's like "what do you want from me. i am a weatherman. i report the fucking weather." < 1311817903 817595 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he ate the weather girl < 1311817906 416790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how fucking old is that gmtv shot < 1311817910 156660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: his voice gives that impression even stronger :P < 1311817916 752411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: link? :D < 1311817930 558583 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um let me see if i can find one < 1311817939 519558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWRkWp7n_ew < 1311817943 226532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this video is ensaddening me < 1311817960 476116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god evryone is talking in french in the comments STO,P < 1311817964 898906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : icant undertsand you < 1311817966 368880 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was always making jokes and all < 1311817975 605704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he dead < 1311817975 795965 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many people assumed that this was a little skit < 1311817978 933705 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1311817986 755414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries profusely, rip french weatehrman
< 1311817989 674700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6kRFRXkltE < 1311818004 177537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh my god < 1311818006 49573 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :And his ashes were thrown into a hurricane or something, from what I remember < 1311818006 760078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note it's middle of the night so i'm not checking the sound myself) < 1311818007 285404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: canimove to norway < 1311818019 230526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want this guy to read em my weather every day < 1311818023 122681 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man < 1311818028 825614 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Napoleon Dynamite did not age well < 1311818032 131786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a fucking stick his stick is amazing < 1311818035 563917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: :D < 1311818046 66784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :longyearbyen how do you evne come up with a name like that < 1311818064 459440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311818104 687495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now let me see if i can find one of our _truly_ legendary weatherman. < 1311818186 851904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear i cannot find one which isn't either parody or that famous sampling... < 1311818207 838005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assumption is that users of this library will want to diff over interesting things or peform interesting tasks with the results (given that, otherwise, they would simply use the standard Unix diff utility). Thus no attempt is made to present a fancier API to aid in doing standard and uninteresting things with the results. < 1311818234 503989 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20 < 1311818241 349388 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is "interesting"? < 1311818283 782471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gdiff package < 1311818283 916192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get an efficient, optimal, type-safe diff and patch function for your datatypes of choice by defining a simple GADT and some class instances. < 1311818288 94461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1311818357 537340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh heh sg might be able to use that < 1311818376 570720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah here is one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p0sjcCsrRY < 1311818411 752973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will look in minute < 1311818553 153234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any diff library that depends on a type equality GADT is a good diff library < 1311818573 124791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok wtaching < 1311818583 872022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow is that an actual board with stick on numbers oerjan < 1311818586 577369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an actual cube < 1311818592 835360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you seen any suggested related videos those with KLM will be the parodies, while "Heavy Metal" is the sampling. < 1311818595 784319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1311818597 677112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does he always stay off-screen < 1311818599 808876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from 1981 < 1311818606 984199 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except at the very end < 1311818613 722807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he like rip my face i dont like me im ugly < 1311818614 485378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311818623 157435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why is this guy famous :D < 1311818639 90723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :his voice, and general geekiness < 1311818659 31506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311818672 905848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish we had weatherpeople as cool as that here < 1311818722 786062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : longyearbyen how do you evne come up with a name like that <-- it's just "long year" + "byen" (the town) < 1311818738 226096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if longyear is the name of some guy or not < 1311818823 60631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's definitely from english < 1311818961 97016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this danish guy is linked from the top reddit comment http://i.imgur.com/qszvo.jpg < 1311819071 162595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311819092 533483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that a really old image anyway < 1311819146 428732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you may know the guy from the _second_ comment http://i.imgur.com/vdqa0.jpg < 1311819191 863121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his... face rings a bell i guess < 1311819193 491522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to thread plz < 1311819205 349295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/j1f2s/meteorologists/?limit=500 < 1311819256 777070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :theisen showed up in the responses to that < 1311819402 852559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg http://i.imgur.com/4qCak.jpg < 1311819414 34430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : i guess you may know the guy from the _second_ comment http://i.imgur.com/vdqa0.jpg < 1311819418 218262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me that guy is the first comment < 1311819421 387311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you not using best ordering? < 1311819424 885709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311819427 740582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : omg http://i.imgur.com/4qCak.jpg < 1311819428 316685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1311819431 446930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :literal best < 1311819441 850319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just what < 1311819478 933436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comment with "ESTONIA" < 1311819502 342474 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311819507 896669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on danish guy < 1311819508 751999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"His glowing head is so amazing. Please tell me that is natural." < 1311819579 887295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If all hot women on TV were smart, I don't think that any other girls could be smart without wrecking the idea that men and women are equally intelligent." < 1311819581 279943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311819590 575226 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311819613 42403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "NO! DON'T ! This guy is a guy that makes fun of people. He's like out Jon Stewart." < 1311819613 908797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :( < 1311819632 158044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He's kinda like him. Talks about news and stuff with another guy and they make fun of stuff. He's the best we've got. They even made a song for Eurovision and we chose it. Why? CAUSE WHY THE FUCK NOT!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRh9PzNYD-8 < 1311819699 389142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the best song < 1311820133 1087 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of various things about prettyprinting how it could work with Haskell programs, including, you can have a TeX code \Wsym for making symbols they can be defined using \csname or whatever, and then words in different styles for different purposes, such as if `mod` you can type in roman style but otherwise can be italic, or bold for keywords, or for names you can also do things, like, ' makes prime mark, # at end of a name makes superscr < 1311820152 54261 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311820246 596494 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might do it has numbers at the end of a name makes subscripts, or superscripts and subscripts separated by underscore, etc < 1311820336 780926 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that are syntax errors in Haskell can be used for other purposes < 1311820474 982087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the main way to do "other purposes" in haskell is to put it in comments. e.g. pragmas have the format {-# ... #-} (where the #'s signify that it's a pragma) < 1311820498 456406 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that can work too. < 1311820505 831504 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while haddock iirc uses the other style of comments -- ^ etc... < 1311820521 394563 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also depends what the other purposes are, I guess. < 1311820537 426316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311820551 382806 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some cases it is OK to ignore you can use comments then, but in case it is a preprocessor you might instead want to use things that would make a syntax error in normal Haskell < 1311820569 803046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311820596 485529 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is possible to be applied in other programming languages too < 1311820720 923404 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually WEB uses @ to select modes and special commands since @ is not a command in Pascal, and uses double quote for pool strings (including single character constants, are replaced by their ASCII code number). < 1311820821 669530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: with haskell most non-alphanumerical characters are syntax errors at the beginning of a line, unless you're in layout-less mode (which is afaik rarely used) < 1311820891 625959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( can also appear there i think, in operator definitions < 1311820918 464795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that also gives ' and " < 1311820930 176782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but @ and # are syntax errors, i think < 1311820939 979705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let @ whatever = < 1311820940 536437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `@' < 1311820948 192839 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says Haskell permits the omission of the braces and semicolons used in several grammar productions, by using layout to convey the same information. This allows both layout-sensitive and layout-insensitive styles of coding, which can be freely mixed within one program. Because layout is not required, Haskell programs can be straightforwardly produced by other programs. < 1311820950 246333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let # whatever = < 1311820950 926910 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `#' < 1311820971 257904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1311820992 584311 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from what I am reading, it seem `` is probably a syntax error putting two ` next to each other directly < 1311821032 156435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i cannot think of a place where that would be legal outside a comment/string < 1311821033 696338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you can use layout mode and non-layout mode together in one program, I think? Is that what it does? < 1311821075 586213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it depends on whether you include a literal { when starting a block or not < 1311821121 758610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = y where { y = 2+z; z = 5 } in x < 1311821122 344999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1311821153 606542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there the block with the let has layout (in theory, although it ends on the same line) while the where block doesn't. < 1311821435 671975 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Probably the easiest way to do a TeX-style prettyprinting for Haskell would be to use TeX-style Literate Haskell. < 1311821481 181027 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the file has a suffix of .lhs, then the file is considered to be in Literate Haskell. One can denote that something is actual code, rather than normal text, either by prepending the line with >, or wrapping the code in \begin{code} \end{code}. < 1311821485 159087 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1311821636 332880 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311821661 618517 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311821699 604706 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it would work, and then can be compiled using standard Haskell compilers too, I think (since .lhs means to only compile lines with > I think) < 1311821718 419600 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or things in \begin{code} \end{code} blocks. < 1311821726 864496 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of the standard. < 1311821797 531262 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why that should be a part of the standard, but whatever, OK < 1311821830 946197 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, using .lhs does not allows you to do various other things such as preprocessing you might want, and so on; although you could still use it for prettyprinting in TeX or other programs < 1311821857 683934 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is somewhat limited, and a more full-fledged preprocessor might be preferable. < 1311821878 38866 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it is nice being able to make your Haskell source be a TeX document with ease. < 1311821878 440853 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem \ is a valid operator in Haskell but I don't know if "\end{code}" can be any valid Haskell syntax. < 1311821916 763444 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\end{code} can't be valid Haskell syntax. < 1311822036 801128 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I do suppose that both codes with > style or \begin{code} \end{code} style could be made to work in TeX with the correct macros without too much difficulty, although doing prettyprinting entirely with TeX would be far mroe difficult. < 1311822082 171817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well not if the \ starts a token. < 1311822085 342959 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Making \end{code} would be slightly more difficult since the characters \ { } would still need to be supported inside of the code) < 1311822100 70057 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IIRC it has to be at the very start of a line. < 1311822104 833170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311822122 445396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311822130 119640 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may know better than I, though. < 1311822130 738970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _could_ still be inside a string. < 1311822189 375186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe the \end{...} takes precedence. hm... < 1311822257 279564 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in either case, to do it directly in TeX then you would make the end of line character to be category code 13 (active character) < 1311822292 161751 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it would work especially if \end{code} needs to be on a line by itself or just at the start of a line < 1311822317 977472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :While with > you could have a command that sets the category codes so that a blank line without > ends it < 1311822338 400537 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{code} could also start a pretty-printing environment. < 1311822345 600481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"•Program code ends just before a subsequent line that begins \end{code} (ignoring string literals, of course). < 1311822349 128030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311822357 859960 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you could let the TeX parser handle the \end{code} bit. < 1311822363 717859 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose you could do some prettyprinting stuff directly in TeX < 1311822383 841936 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So even TeX if you make it parse Haskell codes, could understand if \end{code} is inside of a string or not < 1311822504 261381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are not using \begin for anything else, you could make \begin in TeX to ignore its first parameter, and then allow two kinds of prettyprinting, one for code that is part of the program, and one for code that is not part of the program. < 1311822672 444334 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even the contents of this report is enough I could try to make some kind of Haskell prettyprinter directly in TeX that supports .lhs format http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch2.html#x7-140002 < 1311822707 5357 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already written programs in TeX to make index, so it could be used too < 1311822919 979505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :flowers < 1311822921 561478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forevers < 1311822930 547736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you learning haskell or something? < 1311822980 795020 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, sort of. Not quite. Not really. < 1311823004 214955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : \end{code} can't be valid Haskell syntax. < 1311823008 97880 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that, if you put \input the correct macros at the top, you can just type tex program.lhs; dvilj4 - < program.dvi | lp or whatever command would be used on your computer. < 1311823008 571821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this true in the presence of TH?h < 1311823013 468786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm right it'd have to be asection < 1311823023 595973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\end{code}) would be valid on a line of its own, with TH < 1311823050 727586 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does TH means? < 1311823061 196232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm or wait, it'd have to be (\end{code=something}) < 1311823063 309112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: template haskell < 1311823075 940535 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what things would it mean \ and then end and then { < 1311823098 983309 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to look at the document see how it works < 1311823104 747474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a section < 1311823106 846940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent to < 1311823113 305207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (\) end{code=blah} < 1311823113 602556 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The { is "special" < 1311823119 344680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the last thing is a record mutation < 1311823123 436893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately \end{code} cannot be valid < 1311823129 114772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (\end{code=x}) could be < 1311823131 536403 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without equal sign it is not valid? < 1311823136 590669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1311823140 531536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: \ is not a legal operator though < 1311823143 535050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh < 1311823173 974890 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, it is OK, it is not a problem to use \end{code} to end the code in Literate Haskell, I guess. Since, it is not in a string, it says ignoring string literals so it is OK < 1311823234 72235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _is_ that quasiquote thing, though? < 1311823248 80775 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does say \ is reserved < 1311823264 422522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ is used for haskell's lambdas < 1311823360 475389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1311823360 821391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311823366 951050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\end{code}->expr < 1311823371 38533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a valid line < 1311823373 1956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(again with TH) < 1311823394 623471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do that without capitalizing the end? < 1311823409 405322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's a TH thing you say < 1311823425 474793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um well hmm < 1311823426 381092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be < 1311823432 655211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you are right < 1311823437 643743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TH thing is just an expression as a valid top-level line < 1311823444 124079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> \end{code} -> code < 1311823444 758446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : Parse error in pattern < 1311823450 296821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311823470 619389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \end{test=hi}->hi < 1311823471 196209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error in pattern < 1311823480 561984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \End{test=hi}->hi < 1311823481 180285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `End' < 1311823481 251978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `test' is not a (visible) field of constructor `End' < 1311823506 494102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not legal unless a constructor < 1311823508 233223 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a valid line with TH? "Program code ends just before a subsequent line that begins \end{code} (ignoring string literals, of course)." Oops too bad! Well I suppose you can put a space before \end or using > style instead < 1311823571 330866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I mean not in a literate haskell file :P < 1311823572 626766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose one would have to test to find out how ghc's TH actually interacts with \end{code} < 1311823575 587979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, it isn't < 1311823594 330343 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it require blank line before and after the codes with > so you could redefine \par to check for Haskell codes with > < 1311823718 632529 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311823726 453345 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so, I can see what you were making, does it require the word capitalized to use that kind of stuff with Template Haskell? < 1311823775 58861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems so < 1311823793 796360 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311823922 313732 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311823968 409824 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311824099 393628 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since > require blank line before and after, it should be not difficult to make it work in a simple (non prettyprinting) way in TeX just by redifining \par to check for that < 1311825257 541338 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311825349 772765 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311825354 778472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All of those things have a certain function in a normal language. More interestingly, C++ has almost no pad words - each token is required to find out what a certain bit of code means. What in haskell takes the place of their function in a normal language?" < 1311825355 292965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311825367 679338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anon0AnALY5e said... < 1311825367 883159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple syntax for accessing and updating arrays in place... gone. < 1311825371 540066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol this comment section is terrible < 1311825389 960521 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311825468 999990 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The really stupid \outer command in TeX bothers me a lot. < 1311825515 19921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've mentioned < 1311825515 965340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :several times < 1311825578 941784 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why Knuth thought it would be a good idea. < 1311825579 33592 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe simple syntax to return a new list with a different element in the place would be nice? < 1311825611 723979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you shouldn't be indexing lists < 1311825635 409291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but um that's easy with arrays < 1311825639 925599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arr // [(9,x)] < 1311825653 812421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutable arrays: < 1311825656 972127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :writeArray arr 9 x < 1311825695 682961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with repa... < 1311825736 344984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311825739 737732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it has // too < 1311826009 310908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's like a stork < 1311826013 352459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a simple program for non-prettyprinting Bird style in TeX now http://sprunge.us/SKPf < 1311826017 370381 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds. < 1311826032 555679 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311826096 55428 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it can be improved, to do more things, including add extra space between the paragraphs and the codes, or change interline penalties in the codes and the vertical penalties before and after a code section < 1311826129 989823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan doesn't know what is like a stork. < 1311826170 125968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this program work to you? < 1311826177 718578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't try < 1311826304 402099 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried and it works. < 1311826531 579188 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311826548 472409 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311826614 152721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might want to reduce your meds. < 1311826652 839336 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1311826658 477122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tell me what is like a stork. < 1311826745 660392 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long has elliott without a slep now < 1311826752 800883 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone keep track < 1311826758 226692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever without a slep < 1311826809 507622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well he wasn't around 6 hours or so ago. he may secretly have had a slep then. < 1311826847 271373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that indian guy that was supposed to not need eating. < 1311826882 64222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody needs eating. people should remain uneaten for their natural lifespan < 1311826885 959250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONTRAVERSIAL < 1311826917 572344 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311826918 249558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar hard, it is < 1311827040 881429 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hapense to caniablse then,,,, < 1311827048 246569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dies < 1311827161 89011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow pain < 1311827164 197697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite < 1311827222 427431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: they move to ireland to live a modest life there < 1311827230 958963 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1311827266 679999 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :garden salads and people who are not people < 1311827268 71112 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :subpeople < 1311827858 113921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle bytestring empty < 1311827858 185666 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1311827859 80426 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1311827859 352314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle empty < 1311827859 421191 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative empty :: Alternative f => f a < 1311827859 493708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString empty :: ByteString < 1311827859 546357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap empty :: IntMap a < 1311828000 206881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does hoogle even take two parameters < 1311828145 282645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src hGetLine < 1311828145 354698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. < 1311828146 370944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dunno :D < 1311828176 65575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle IO String < 1311828176 137311 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: :: IO String /count=20 < 1311828176 189680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO.Error ioeGetErrorString :: IOError -> String < 1311828176 189836 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO.Error ioeSetErrorString :: IOError -> String -> IOError < 1311828190 665805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@more < 1311828194 92434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311828218 344660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle getLine < 1311828218 417657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude getLine :: IO String < 1311828218 489522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString getLine :: IO ByteString < 1311828218 542457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO getLine :: IO String < 1311828238 262135 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wtf doesn't that get listed first < 1311828249 750810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Handle -> IO String < 1311828250 4202 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO hGetContents :: Handle -> IO String < 1311828250 56838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO hGetLine :: Handle -> IO String < 1311828250 56999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO hShow :: Handle -> IO String < 1311828261 864321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Handle -> IO ByteString < 1311828261 939265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString hGetContents :: Handle -> IO ByteString < 1311828262 10545 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString hGetLine :: Handle -> IO ByteString < 1311828262 63008 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 hGetContents :: Handle -> IO ByteString < 1311828293 529415 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311828366 292122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you need :: if it isn't obvious that it's a type (contains no ->) < 1311828377 741953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle :: IO String < 1311828377 817070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude getContents :: IO String < 1311828377 870370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude getLine :: IO String < 1311828377 870525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO getContents :: IO String < 1311828432 117171 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha... < 1311828444 536476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle +bytestring empty < 1311828444 609346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString empty :: ByteString < 1311828444 680708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 empty :: ByteString < 1311828444 733285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Lazy empty :: ByteString < 1311828459 74992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reading http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Hoogle
< 1311828466 393248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: number sign plz < 1311828471 930317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1311828474 733927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1311828518 657565 :postmodern!~postmoder@c-71-237-178-98.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311828635 198917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mzero :: IO () < 1311828635 834556 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for Control.Monad.MonadPlus GHC.Types.IO < 1311828635 887017 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising f... < 1311828636 317205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :postmodern: hi < 1311828642 716580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl return () < 1311828642 785394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :return () < 1311828644 497738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311828645 938785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle m () < 1311828646 11257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BSD endHostEntry :: IO () < 1311828646 82778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BSD endNetworkEntry :: IO () < 1311828646 135501 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.BSD endProtocolEntry :: IO () < 1311828685 885552 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use C preprocessor or m4 for Lazy K? < 1311828933 653307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's the nicest way to augment a forM_ such that we can tell if we are on the last element of the list? < 1311828985 934551 :postmodern!~postmoder@c-71-237-178-98.hsd1.or.comcast.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1311829203 460046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pass it a [(Bool, a)] or [Either a a], maybe? < 1311829225 778812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1311829391 893921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :forMe_ f fe l = foldr ((>>).f) (fe (last l)) (init l) < 1311829424 503634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f fe l -> foldr ((>>).f) (fe (last l)) (init l) < 1311829425 116785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b a1. (Monad m) => (a1 -> m a) -> (a1 -> m b) -> [a1] -> m b < 1311829446 111118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even gives you the result of the last one < 1311829466 325007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, thanks < 1311829492 762165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually that could leak some memory in the last l bit < 1311829496 113816 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311829513 630649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(until it actually gets to the end) < 1311829520 882713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case that's a problem < 1311829573 528177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :forMe_ _ f [x] = f x; forMe_ f fe (x:xs) = f x >> forMe_ f fe xs < 1311829587 525132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :should not have that problem < 1311829667 570102 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-192-244.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311829670 78608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1311829786 204131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1311829798 791185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\_->Nothing) <|> (\x->Just x) < 1311829799 379619 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Alternative ((->) a)) => a -> Maybe a < 1311829802 524596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((\_->Nothing) <|> (\x->Just x)) 9 < 1311829803 110656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Control.Applicative.Alternative ((->) a)) < 1311829803 182449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from ... < 1311829809 338566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1311829853 848130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle Maybe a -> Maybe a -> Maybe a < 1311829854 365264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases orElse :: Maybe a -> Maybe a -> Maybe a < 1311829854 417838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (<|>) :: Alternative f => f a -> f a -> f a < 1311829854 417957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad mplus :: MonadPlus m => m a -> m a -> m a < 1311829858 164959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1311829870 396540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g x -> f x <|> g x < 1311829870 448678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (<|>) < 1311829876 83423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g -> B(\x -> f x <|> g x) < 1311829876 156034 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B .) . liftM2 (<|>) < 1311829884 783416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl B (\x -> f x <|> g x) < 1311829884 836396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :B (liftM2 (<|>) f g) < 1311829899 798346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap < 1311829900 375849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1311829915 683655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap :: (a -> b) -> (Message -> Maybe a) -> (Message -> Maybe b) < 1311829917 291103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's easy < 1311829973 634180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*>) < 1311829974 165396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1311829989 307587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Message -> Maybe (a -> b)) -> (Message -> a) -> (Message -> b) < 1311830000 549438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: methinks these functions not so useful, but necessary to get Alternative :D < 1311830057 414813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t when < 1311830058 9430 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => Bool -> m () -> m () < 1311830065 523153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, why monad only :( < 1311830073 590791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1311830074 555901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t guard < 1311830075 112351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *). (MonadPlus m) => Bool -> m () < 1311830079 58021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl guard b >> x < 1311830079 110629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :guard b >> x < 1311830601 411316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : bah, why monad only :( <-- when is intrinsically monadic, not applicative. < 1311830611 481123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know i know i know :P < 1311831044 294801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle choice < 1311831044 347151 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Parsec.Combinator choice :: Stream s m t => [ParsecT s u m a] -> ParsecT s u m a < 1311831044 399649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP choice :: [ReadP a] -> ReadP a < 1311831044 399818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadPrec choice :: [ReadPrec a] -> ReadPrec a < 1311831047 414878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle choose < 1311831047 487024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test.QuickCheck choose :: Random a => (a, a) -> Gen a < 1311831049 903424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on < 1311831203 558942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t msum < 1311831204 211401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadPlus m) => [m a] -> m a < 1311831208 934280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one? < 1311831227 382048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nope, I'm using Alternative < 1311831229 668802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a good person < 1311831233 178369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just use MonadPlus < 1311831242 243448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle Maybe (m a) -> m (Maybe a) < 1311831242 316213 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequenceA :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a) < 1311831242 369872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequence :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a) < 1311831242 370075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative optional :: Alternative f => f a -> f (Maybe a) < 1311831248 562391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pffffffffffffft < 1311831253 338775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe sequence < 1311831254 352725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t asum < 1311831254 929762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `asum' < 1311831258 29865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311831261 380263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right asum < 1311831262 568832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle asum < 1311831262 641956 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable asum :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a < 1311831307 131749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Y U NO IMPORT FOLDABLE? < 1311831394 382354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IRC.Control> dispatchA test (Message NoPrefix (Command "PRIVMSG") ["bot","hello world"]) < 1311831394 553912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("PRIVMSG",NoPrefix,"bot","hello world") < 1311831394 606393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just () < 1311831395 344285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1311831400 411848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test :: Handler (IO ()) < 1311831400 586091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test = < 1311831400 658351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : asum [ "PRIVMSG" >- \p [loc,msg] -> print ("PRIVMSG",p,loc,msg) < 1311831400 711092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , "JOIN" >- \p [loc] -> print ("JOIN",p,loc) ] < 1311831521 755461 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311831577 233979 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311831593 94966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :infixr 0 >- < 1311831593 258277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>-) :: ByteString -> Handler a -> Handler a < 1311831593 310577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd >- h = (\(Message _ (Command cmd') _) -> cmd' == cmd) ?? h < 1311831595 71093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: behold my elegance < 1311831707 864906 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My eye feels like as if someone poured acid into it. Holy fuck that hurts hurts hurts hurts. < 1311831713 403827 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alo, ow. < 1311831716 184001 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, even. < 1311831764 171320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: wat < 1311831847 752766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION beholds, and appreciates that it associates the right way
< 1311831862 474163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: < 1311831863 559732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test :: Handler (IO ()) < 1311831863 744497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test = < 1311831863 797073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : asum [ commandIs "PRIVMSG" ?? fields $ \p [loc,msg] -> print ("PRIVMSG",p,loc,msg) < 1311831863 797242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , commandIs "JOIN" ?? fields $ \p [loc] -> print ("JOIN",p,loc) ] < 1311831865 818754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more elegant, more ugly :D < 1311831876 681847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not sure this solution scales
< 1311831915 172178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm working on is a simple little bot to do two things: < 1311831930 435603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- ?tell that's more secure than lambdabot's (if you send something in private, the bot always tells the recipient it in private) < 1311831943 122158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- some kind of fun fun infobot thing < 1311831966 39643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fun info about private tells, check < 1311831967 119716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, like everything, I'm making sure it's the PERFECT HASKELL PROGRAM for the job because this is the only way I can write anything < 1311831973 12874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: psht < 1311832147 462082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mostly i was thinking i could fill it with the perfect opinions on any topic < 1311832167 455998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1311832177 738786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey yo bot what is up withbrainfuck derivatives<> < 1311832202 267101 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1311832215 815620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey yo bot < 1311832216 777883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is up < 1311832219 228639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with oerjan < 1311832224 953549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HES A POOPHEAD WHOIS ANTIBOT < 1311832235 84348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> < 1311832240 123752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :REV/.GENGE < 1311832360 117010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a short-term channel participant, got it. < 1311832375 839770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r u saying < 1311832378 251576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bots with opinions < 1311832383 176169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rbannable oerjan? < 1311832395 944029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would u like to apologise???? for this badness < 1311832413 565133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1311832423 806591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rugoing todie < 1311832441 462451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because im going to punch u with bot death < 1311832446 28943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : crying :( < 1311832466 750615 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311832479 573379 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-153-95.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311832519 682128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if oerjan really thinks i am on drugs < 1311832521 733784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be hlarious < 1311832561 522428 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-184-197.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311832617 956376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlearly < 1311832679 147611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a robot < 1311832681 731298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep < 1311832725 53906 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in the distant future? < 1311832730 503206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1311832739 87609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : this explainseveryhething < 1311832764 548967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan isa magician < 1311832872 822743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god Sgeo_ make oerjan a cooler irc < 1311832895 51160 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1311832912 898901 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want to know is when you hopped aboard the OO wagon < 1311832921 859561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1311832925 767384 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan isa magician < 1311832926 357712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when am i on the oo wagon < 1311832930 518643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/2924.html < 1311832933 284866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on im ignoring you now < 1311832953 104050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow < 1311832954 288084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im good < 1311832955 856526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as good as dmm < 1311832966 267046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sowhen is irregular webcomic ending again oerjan ;d :DDD < 1311832980 992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sobs uncontrollably
< 1311832989 676032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime september < 1311832998 571801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait is that confirmed? < 1311833001 906108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1311833006 581243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how likely :P < 1311833046 455749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with dmm saying absolutely _nothing_... < 1311833057 160246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: has anyone actually _asked_ :D < 1311833084 581115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of < 1311833154 932677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh the oolite maintainer ison theiwc foums < 1311833193 291585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asterisk is on the iwc < 1311833226 364429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think i saw someone mention that < 1311833237 593509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well taneb plays oolite iirc < 1311833251 695560 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311833255 570564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does taneb have any notable facets that don't belong to either me or PH... < 1311833259 965294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1311833275 48250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are all the same person? ok then. < 1311833297 382424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future me and ph will somehow merge and go back in time tob ecome tanbe < 1311833366 328586 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311833378 851638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, acid-state is really good < 1311833401 695568 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311833459 799615 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311833581 904672 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311833617 837355 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311833762 952886 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311833799 851284 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311833935 917826 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to wipe my brain right now. I just saw a spoiler for a book I wanted to read < 1311833973 433201 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311834014 89296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what book < 1311834053 24666 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Last Hero < 1311834062 28071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the first hero instead < 1311834189 295279 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311834204 683259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should continue archive-binging Discworld < 1311834223 141016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can finish before Pratchett offs himself and forces everyone who reads them to be vaguely sad about it forevermore < 1311834228 307252 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311834610 456752 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311835353 128912 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what they call a guy with an umbrella who has a red suit < 1311835386 223522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol? < 1311835449 416712 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whos they help < 1311835477 776889 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had this dream < 1311835490 378093 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bsmntbombdood started a dating service < 1311835495 345570 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was called vigianis < 1311835500 221590 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's his real name < 1311835511 220015 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was a mix of vagina and penis < 1311835514 161766 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess not then. < 1311835525 785484 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also went to a cold sauna < 1311835531 155178 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrrrr < 1311835682 339799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vigianis isa good name < 1311835702 641287 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually vigianis turned out to be the name of a car, so bsmntbombdood had to close his dating service down. < 1311835704 559804 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cold is a good sauna < 1311835709 987684 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good dream < 1311835818 255806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt camein here tody < 1311835820 224364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yesterday < 1311835821 603254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are days < 1311835840 597010 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its to tell hard when you dont get ever a slepe < 1311835877 144140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many slepes did you get today monkey < 1311835886 451842 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get way too much slaep < 1311835888 562719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry monquay < 1311835897 545148 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1311835918 139588 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i have gotten a sleep previously in the morning and i will get another sleep soon turn tomorrow < 1311835956 861034 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :timeszomes are bad because they complciate todays < 1311836082 680575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im agree < 1311836236 410312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy < 1311836237 339181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TONSILS < 1311836241 595408 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tonsiles < 1311836253 660415 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :abotu them: what < 1311836336 323133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal has them < 1311836487 677738 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311836948 668995 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the intercal spec does < 1311837024 344730 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311837298 651282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why doesn't haskell have higher-order typeclasses < 1311837320 526023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1311837371 137380 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmm. Does Ur? Sounds like the sort of thing that Ur might have < 1311837444 428881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no < 1311837446 710612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not afaik < 1311837951 599471 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say. Is there any particular reason for the ALL_FREAKING_CAPS convention for preprocessor defines? < 1311837959 641646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE KindSignatures, MultiParamTypeClasses, FunctionalDependencies, ExistentialQuantification, TypeFamilies, FlexibleContexts #-} < 1311837959 746145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good irc bot < 1311837961 534625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: because cpp ismagical < 1311837975 560361 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ah, so "no, that's completely stupid"? < 1311837977 513518 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1311837985 717060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: no its not < 1311837995 733058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: for instance, just about any cpp macro could reevaluate its arguments < 1311838002 545846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or basically behave utterly unlike a regular function call in any way < 1311838020 569155 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about constants? < 1311838028 210487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you using cpp for constants < 1311838033 166680 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do it. < 1311838048 680642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's their problem < 1311838065 438684 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be better served by a const definition, but that's beside the point. < 1311838088 477992 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it does make sense to have ALL_FREAKING_CAPS for preprocessor macros that do potentially confusing things. < 1311838134 182743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is all of them, if you know what inline functions are < 1311838195 761485 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I guess the *real* question is "why do people do every fucking thing in the preprocessor." < 1311838222 467781 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\."/?"./ < 1311838252 52563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan my codeis broken :( is it because i used unsafecoerce < 1311838308 544355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROBABLY < 1311838403 20977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looking up a key in a map that you just got from its keys list is also meant to work right............. < 1311838416 246004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha wait hm < 1311838417 120527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Saizan: agda is webscale in the sense that you need half of The Cloud to run the typechecker < 1311838420 370207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311838446 70118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf now it works < 1311838449 228819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1311838467 556884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup :: (Key k ex) => k -> DepMap ex f -> Maybe (f k) < 1311838467 727151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup k (DepMap m) = < 1311838467 779468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case Map.lookup (box k) m of < 1311838467 779542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing -> Nothing < 1311838467 779584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just v -> unsafeCoerce v < 1311838468 941949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the bug oerjan < 1311838548 382905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm did you mayhaps want Just (unsafeCoerce v) ? < 1311838565 831031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep :D < 1311838575 172767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unsafeCoerce happily coerced both values to Nothing because < 1311838607 434247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm beginning to realise that this _may_ be a glorified (Map String ASimpleRecordType). < 1311838619 718127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well, there is that state type family. < 1311838631 254030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then clearly you want unsafeCoerce <$> < 1311838641 763289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1311838666 420825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup k (DepMap m) = unsafeCoerce <$> Map.lookup (box k) m < 1311838681 446525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't feel right to use unsafeCoerce in... you know, such idiomatic terms < 1311838687 577256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : O KAY < 1311838694 334932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1311838698 527471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1311838699 961991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O < 1311838702 34900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :K < 1311838703 7779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1311838704 55849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y < 1311838707 398835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311838711 202235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot the blank line < 1311838717 9474 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Would you like it to be more point-free? < 1311838735 502104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup :: (Key k ex) => k -> DepMap ex f -> Maybe (f k) < 1311838735 582952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup k (DepMap m) = unsafeCoerce <$> Map.lookup (box k) m < 1311838735 636349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert :: (Key k ex) => k -> f k -> DepMap ex f -> DepMap ex f < 1311838735 636538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert k v (DepMap m) = DepMap $ Map.insert (box k) (unsafeCoerce v) m < 1311838738 829269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how casual this coercion is < 1311838749 236099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, oh man, i can totally make this use type families < 1311838750 468894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: :D < 1311838770 518624 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus the unsafeCoerce. < 1311838781 61811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just because haskell's type system is weak :( < 1311838826 515319 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a little mindbending, but it does *seem* to be typesafe. < 1311838834 989612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1311838836 685818 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that that makes me happy about it. :P < 1311838855 172403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could do it with data.dynamic, with all the cast failure branches being (error "impossible"), if you'd like < 1311838861 73677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be both slower and carry around pointless type tags < 1311838872 477223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Ord (Ex k)) => Key k where < 1311838872 621026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : type Ex k < 1311838872 674246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : box :: k -> Ex k < 1311838872 674492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :officially the best typeclass i've ever written < 1311838881 6670 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that'd be equivalent but pointless. < 1311838924 204934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data/DepMap.hs:35:1: < 1311838924 593877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Alas, GHC 7.0 still cannot handle equality superclasses: Ex a ~ Ce < 1311838924 646244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the context: (Ex a ~ Ce, Show a, Show (State a), Key a) < 1311838924 646326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : While checking the super-classes of class `C' < 1311838924 646368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the class declaration for `C' < 1311838925 640908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1311838930 701480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc stopped me using type families < 1311838931 902006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311838954 629909 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an equality superclass < 1311838955 356605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wasn't that the thing that was just added to head? < 1311838957 635443 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dare I ask < 1311838961 151079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep < 1311838969 144398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: how much haskell do you know :P < 1311838980 149795 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget I asked < 1311839176 775265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cmccann: C++ is dual to Haskell in a sense: it's much too hard for the average programmer to use safely, but they do anyway with disastrous results; whereas Haskell isn't actually that difficult to use but people don't even try < 1311839180 943037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311839218 4041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'll just ignore copumpkin's cannibalistic tendencies. < 1311839250 113390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where's all this from < 1311839279 769638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://contemplatecode.blogspot.com/2011/07/haskell-weekly-news-issue-192.html < 1311839284 411927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t extract < 1311839285 14561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall source. (Extract source) => (Int, Int) -> source -> source < 1311839332 218129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds useful. < 1311839426 796428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is something else, not the comonad method... < 1311839470 761000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a moment there i thought zzo38 was posting to stackoverflow http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6736482/literate-haskell-references-and-indexing < 1311839739 194753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type K a b = b < 1311839739 594383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype DepMap ex f = DepMap (K (f ex) (Map ex Any)) < 1311839746 723049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quiz: what language extension have i avoided proly here < 1311839751 340209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god proly is a good word < 1311839753 30790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pro-ly) < 1311839780 82233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to proly go < 1311839782 880801 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is creepy < 1311839798 558742 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stalker who knows my RL name and approximate location can find out where I (used) to live, exactly < 1311839808 86930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not a quiz answer < 1311839809 536191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: OH NOES < 1311839823 721500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED < 1311839830 770629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im so creeped out that i cant sleep < 1311839831 976649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :creped out < 1311839839 369166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :creped is a word?? wow spellchecker, THANK YOU I LOVE YOU < 1311839840 656679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :crêped out < 1311839895 929050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FlexibleInstances maybe? < 1311839926 173362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nope < 1311839932 613455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to do with intsances < 1311839936 311573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the K type is integral to it < 1311839946 116225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1311839967 813002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind annotations? < 1311839972 604881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kind signatures, yup < 1311839974 161210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311839985 260180 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your spellchecker has insufficient ê./ < 1311839994 162491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: shut up crepehead < 1311840036 867684 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fine. Mëẗäl ẗïmë. < 1311840047 570185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pikhq_: http://sprunge.us/ERFM OVERENGINEERING SUCCESSFUL < 1311840051 1320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC BOT SURE TO BE A WINNER < 1311840065 609880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you be suzette and don't argue, will you? < 1311840194 966631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um why are you still listing TypeFamilies? < 1311840215 300210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait there it is < 1311840258 729574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now trying to eliminate those boring Key instances, at which point he will throw all this away and do something more sensible instead
< 1311840361 744537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, can't < 1311840570 550813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my name is t < 1311840744 378126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: omg wiat i can avoid unsafecoerce < 1311840745 960526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think < 1311840752 602488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well hm wait no < 1311841103 124112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iqwow < 1311841142 542083 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1311841148 394524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gwiblokta < 1311841164 436826 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3X9W7lCI-w getting alright at this game < 1311841235 344393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskel is abeter game < 1311841267 431201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskelis the only game allowed to be played < 1311841272 223349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all others shall presiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiihhhhhhhhhh < 1311841426 418504 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskellband, the latest roguelike < 1311841454 710810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my operating system < 1311841508 918870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: BOOOM!!!!!!! < 1311841535 845422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311841586 809038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: how good an extension language does tcl make (this is a joke) < 1311841680 433463 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not terrible. < 1311841688 733476 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But dear God don't fuck it up. < 1311841695 356651 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll do Eggdrop all over again. < 1311841725 221587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: there's like zero strings involved here and lots of large, complex data structures, so tcl is like the least suited thing ;-) < 1311841732 217050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in data structures of eighty kilobytes) < 1311841740 469641 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yeah, Tcl is a pitiful choice. < 1311841779 994802 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl excels at string manipulation and simple data structures. < 1311841803 401410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guile is a pretty good fit, but the version in Debian has broken threading and it won't be fixed until at least wheezy because of ABI breakage < 1311841821 187475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, GNU. :P < 1311841823 767100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it kind of started infecting other parts of the code when I tried binding to it < 1311841828 594778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well it was a pretty good API mind you < 1311841839 202745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also uncovered a bug, which wasn't too reassuring ;-) < 1311841851 969424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua would probably be convenient enough, but Lua isn't a pleasant language IMO. < 1311841857 215724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that indexing from one thing is just perverse. < 1311841885 472879 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could try Bourne. < 1311841889 183764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1311841896 378271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python and Ruby are obviously out on grounds of badness < 1311841911 423903 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention being utterly unembeddable. < 1311841918 156773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is OK to embed. < 1311841920 71114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby too < 1311841921 643666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So nah < 1311841925 559734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby is better IIRC < 1311841941 511193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :S-Lang is probably OK but it's just weird, everything by that guy is weird, s-lang, jed, most... < 1311841943 95775 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but you've got choices that are actually designed around it. < 1311841957 36362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I'll embed SWI Prolog < 1311841958 422945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1311841969 276337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT COULD POSSIBLY. BUT _POSSIBLY_. GO WRONG??????? < 1311841993 992343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Io is meant to be very embeddable, but I have good petty reasons to not use it < 1311841999 156508 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could always do your own Forth. < 1311842019 474173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weeeeell... I think fizzie likes the Forth at least a bit, but I'm constrained by him ripping out anything he dislikes too much. < 1311842027 478959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is for mcmap. < 1311842051 807692 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Clearly* you should embed Java. :P < 1311842072 372636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AH YES IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW < 1311842808 6003 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311843107 400650 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311843561 511806 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311844625 819166 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311844632 294523 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311844650 698485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311844868 806520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You didn't steal all the rail from Deewiant's line, right? :p < 1311844915 252805 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1311844931 526417 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what. < 1311844948 522263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What? < 1311845026 781160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ? < 1311845510 427886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Taneb: You didn't steal all the rail from Deewiant's line, right? :p <--- did someone? < 1311845538 111351 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been on the server much at all in a couple of days < 1311845552 544912 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went on for ten minutes yesterday, but didn't do much < 1311845553 834037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, no, it could have been an accident. But you're not on the server in question, so it can't have been you. < 1311845596 848827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and even if I did play on the server it wouldn't have been me < 1311845612 59755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could have been. < 1311845621 19618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically yes < 1311845626 506525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't do something like that < 1311845643 398504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't see how it could have been an accident though. Sure if it was only a short section then it could have been a bucket of water or lava being misplaced < 1311845652 278196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since you said "all" I presume it is a long stretch? < 1311845654 836123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a short section near the end. < 1311845657 97125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311845665 656733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb would have stolen all the rail that was stolen. < 1311845667 66559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be bucket being misplaced then < 1311845679 335049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a water accident, since there's just little patches missing, and redstone torches for the boosters too. < 1311845688 672784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's separate, small patches, and buckets don't do that, so I dunno. < 1311845698 749195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1311845720 893495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any sort of regularity to the spacing and/or sizes of the patches? < 1311845727 951191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how we're talking about this while talking about software in -minecraft. < 1311845733 597090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]this in here < 1311845739 642349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's just like two or three, so no. < 1311845760 829047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, probably not that crazy bug we keep having on one server I play on then. < 1311845781 710265 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I try to fix it? < 1311845885 635253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Naw, that's okay. < 1311846198 789127 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311847943 419952 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311848006 901529 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311848011 492175 :gwtod!~gwtod@186.16.76.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311849926 722842 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311850007 362042 :gwtod!~gwtod@186.16.76.46 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1311850542 705364 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1311850594 791056 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just learned that in Bridge, the suits have a ranking: Lowest to highest clubs diamonds hearts spades < 1311850599 250112 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, make of that what you will < 1311850612 888158 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Let me guess, this is more common than I think) < 1311850640 81985 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I kind of had an inkling that spades is usually in some sence highest < 1311850688 85639 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be really quite game-dependant. < 1311850691 543772 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Typical orderings of suits include (from highest to lowest): < 1311850691 720109 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Bridge (for bidding and scoring) and occasionally poker: spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs < 1311850691 773281 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Preferans: hearts, diamonds, clubs, spades. Only used for bidding, and No Trump is considered higher than hearts. < 1311850691 773403 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Five Hundred: hearts, diamonds, clubs, spades (for bidding and scoring) < 1311850691 773502 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Ninety-nine: clubs, hearts, spades, diamonds (supposedly mnemonic as they have respectively 3, 2, 1, 0 lobes; see article for how this scoring is used) < 1311850694 173060 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Skat: clubs, spades, hearts, diamonds (for bidding and to determine which Jack beats which in play) < 1311850696 89493 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Big Two: spades, hearts, clubs, diamonds" < 1311850698 179971 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a long list. < 1311850980 375137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"@subsubsubsection" < 1311851125 881098 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, might Hussie be a bridge player? < 1311853514 898913 :CakeProphet!~adam@h134.1.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311853514 989492 :CakeProphet!~adam@h134.1.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311853514 989724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311854321 969208 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311854613 321339 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311855035 357227 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311855055 509978 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Je suis trop sexy pour moi chemise < 1311855738 64216 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311855807 213581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311856107 869633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1311856435 955140 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311856854 894353 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I got my power cable! < 1311857324 865255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoorj < 1311857575 171374 :CakeProphet!~adam@h249.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311857575 223692 :CakeProphet!~adam@h249.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311857575 223778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311857683 213069 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I make the coffee, or did the coffee make me? < 1311857742 488354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep < 1311857977 577903 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are owned by your coffee < 1311858081 228617 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDUde < 1311858085 232548 :MDUde!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1311858144 166188 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am no slave to coffee! < 1311858161 226032 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will lead the revolution against the great caffeine dictator! < 1311858259 700996 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, why not do both? < 1311858852 700976 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be sung to Marilyn Manson's "I don't like the drugs" < 1311858895 971583 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "or" in the middle is hard to fit into a rhyme though < 1311858913 404555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, tinyscheme makes some things hard < 1311858917 76736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe i'm just being an idiot < 1311859225 820943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wtf, can you not even construct a list... < 1311859279 311956 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1311859562 251793 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I drink about 3 caffeinated sodas every night, one for each break I get. < 1311859568 567445 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :�g2 < 1311859625 336636 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what on earth are you using tinyscheme for? < 1311859934 222653 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what would happen if we tried to design a non-esoteric programming language from scratch? < 1311860010 384580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mcmap < 1311860026 373713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: something that requires a few too many PhDs < 1311860077 182745 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311860077 525917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311860157 950622 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it Panini < 1311860169 155610 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311860186 192112 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After two things < 1311860197 314098 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person who formulated the Sanskrit language < 1311860221 86456 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is mentioned on the Wikipedia page of History of Computing < 1311860240 766847 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also those tasty Italian sandwiches < 1311860460 387403 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be object orientated with support for pure functional programming < 1311860498 286093 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So by "we", you mean "you"? :-) < 1311860506 275630 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying what I would do < 1311860519 307883 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And expecting to be laughed right out of town < 1311860547 934810 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can laugh, if you'd like < 1311860561 372459 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That won't be necassary < 1311860570 388471 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: last I checked a Ph.D is not required to write a general-purpose programming language. < 1311860590 371669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of time, effort, and intelligence: yes < 1311860612 540121 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's a shame I never said that, or you'd have a point < 1311860659 951915 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, was the Ph.D comment a reply to something else? < 1311860668 811002 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder what would happen if we tried to design a non-esoteric programming language from scratch? < 1311860670 238148 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Taneb: something that requires a few too many PhDs < 1311860670 808389 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he meant to use the language < 1311860678 232877 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to implement, mostly < 1311860800 2861 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to get a doctorate in something < 1311860806 378471 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to get Marvel to try and sue me < 1311860814 494540 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if I called myself a doctor < 1311860818 251219 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wrote my name down < 1311860828 914295 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would look almost exactly like Doctor von Doom < 1311860862 341941 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well I still think my statement applies to implementing a language as well. < 1311860876 535086 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you might want to acquire a sense of humour. < 1311860902 875221 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only humor I desire is bloooood. < 1311860911 403460 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleigh! < 1311860955 326278 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TINYSCHEME'S API IS SO MINIMAL ARGH < 1311860978 866397 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that you have just identified the main point of TinyScheme < 1311860994 715934 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-192-117.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1311861006 578396 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but the idea is presumably to be tiny AND USABLE, I can't even write this eval function :-P < 1311861013 242069 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case I'm not really sure why you're so snarky. I thought you were making a point and I decided to discuss it politely... < 1311861018 64519 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :tinyhaskell plz < 1311861059 556613 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I was pointing out that you missed a joke < 1311861061 20501 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-153-95.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311861114 417983 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: did you complain java's API was too big the other day or was that someone else? :D < 1311861149 879065 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Python's API have to be so medium-sized!/ < 1311861161 183366 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know. I'm just saying that tone goes a long way towards making someone not sound like an asshole. It's fine, I just didn't understand the rudeness that I interpreted. < 1311861170 424775 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i complained about java a lot, dunno about the size of its api < 1311861170 477623 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goldilocks and the perfect API < 1311861195 89922 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you're the only person who consistently complains about other people being rude to you, so either there's institutionalised oppression or you're just misreading tones < 1311861215 628706 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/other people/you/g < 1311861221 904518 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I've been organizing government cells to harass CakeProphet on his favourite IRC channel < 1311861222 442959 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1311861226 879902 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: also monqy. < 1311861228 913098 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't have let it out < 1311861237 636244 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think PH too. < 1311861298 327428 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_ and monqy are the most oppressive institition of all. < 1311861307 72640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelled correctly, of course. < 1311861309 840322 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad typing bloc < 1311861335 180276 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally love the variety of "built-in" features of java api < 1311861347 989248 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eh.. have i used it? no < 1311861371 15217 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, BufferedStreamReader is probably my favorite interface of all. < 1311861405 421310 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo i prefer the subtle nuttiness of AbstractUnbufferedFileReaderFactory < 1311861411 353767 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a real thing < 1311861486 270003 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could be simpler than BufferedReader i = new BufferedReader(new FileReader(new File("inp.txt"))); < 1311861527 833273 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :readmymind("inp.txt"); < 1311861539 352413 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 'new File' is unnecessary FWIW < 1311861556 490900 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I just like to demonize Java. < 1311861567 569816 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: who knows :P < 1311861594 791560 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea < 1311861603 644424 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : BufferedReader i = new BufferedReader(new FileReader(new File(new String("inp.txt")))); < 1311861603 696740 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm like an attorney, making things look more awful than they really are by not using the more convenient String overload of the FileReader constructor. < 1311861605 399581 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that right < 1311861609 646563 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could nest infinite new Strings inside of that < 1311861636 605100 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's valid. < 1311861655 319564 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: that's excellent < 1311861655 622602 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :BufferedReader i = new BufferedReader(new FileReader(new File(new String(new String(new String("inp.txt")))))); < 1311861656 140326 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1311861691 943678 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat until you overflow...something. Max length for line of code? Interned string table? Stack? < 1311861709 231820 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max length for line of code... does that even exist? < 1311861779 232347 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how some C compilers truncate the length of a method after 128 characters < 1311861779 706765 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1311861789 641133 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there probably isn't. it'd just be tokenized < 1311861791 246924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolmethod. < 1311861830 355700 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably cause problems once you get past 2^16 or 2^32 < 1311861845 629988 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's write a line of java code longer than 4GB (2GB?) characters < 1311861851 615006 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :...In a unicode encoding! < 1311861852 126868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :My former roommate, who basically only knows C#, calls functions methods.. < 1311861854 910995 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackle
< 1311861857 594512 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION had to explain the difference.
< 1311863056 347809 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, UCL's off my list for future Universities < 1311863082 715942 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they relax their requirements, or Latin becomes a modern language by 2013, I don't meet the requirements < 1311863145 964528 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311863245 243319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's all start speaking Latin to help Taneb. < 1311863298 290745 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's interesting... < 1311863309 408169 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lingua latina mortua est < 1311863317 255271 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not a single Maths course at Cambridge that requires a Maths A-Level < 1311863334 934082 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, if Further Maths and Maths are considered different < 1311863348 762124 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, I misread the table < 1311863357 129155 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at the prefered column < 1311863371 639551 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all do < 1311863453 862296 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly me < 1311864452 605485 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: bbl < 1311865363 661274 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311865459 276899 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311865466 479502 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311865660 639116 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311865670 673141 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: BufferedReader i = new BufferedReader(new FileReader(new File((new File((new File(new String("inp.txt"))).toURI())).toURI()))); < 1311865672 836118 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311865737 672214 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic: fun with expressions! < 1311865768 600031 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1311865769 138802 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1311865771 104155 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :toURI? < 1311865779 384834 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess that would work, haha < 1311865781 778234 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, File doesn't have a from-File constructor. < 1311865787 72029 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's a from-"file:"-URI one. < 1311865807 422745 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this < 1311865892 312946 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess instead of .toURI() you could also chain with .getAbsolutePath() as well. < 1311865912 669057 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :might want to add a few + "" for good measure. < 1311865928 768266 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we use a string builder somehow? < 1311865930 839762 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some 'null' first arguments in some of the File constructors. < 1311865955 610655 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oh, maybe we can throw in reflection < 1311866004 42205 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some .toString()s < 1311866013 730851 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But called through reflection < 1311866028 374073 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that, something like Methods()[0] or something, never used reflection before < 1311866035 527452 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think I'm thinking of ruby? < 1311866151 599570 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :File.class.getConstructors()[0].newInstance("blah") assuming the first constructor happens to be the single-string-argument one. < 1311866173 993585 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also throws a couple of checked exceptions you need to catch, IIRC.) < 1311866176 920196 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, apparently you need to pass method's invoke an object to invoke it on, so you can't do it all in one line < 1311866183 803787 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So constructors instead < 1311866227 183413 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(new File("dummy.file")).getClass().getConstructors()[0].newInstance("real.file"); < 1311866230 927731 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The best idiom.) < 1311866273 999786 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :BufferedReader i = new BufferedReader(new FileReader(File.class.getConstructors()[0].newInstance((File.class.getConstructors()[0].newInstance((File.class.getConstructors()[0].newInstance((new String("inp.txt"))).toURI())).toURI()))); < 1311866275 679695 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like this? < 1311866371 181456 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the fortitude to check, and also I don't think the API defines necessarily which of the constructors is the zeroth. < 1311866399 444543 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some tweaking required < 1311866420 508132 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311866457 776265 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1311866784 250834 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311866893 39223 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a type-signature-based constructor getting function too, so File.class.getConstructor(String.class).newInstance("blah"). Oh, I'm too late. < 1311867532 326156 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311867605 323991 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311867797 248245 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311867812 412437 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311867898 28483 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had another idea for an awful programming language < 1311867910 672797 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :British Topline < 1311867911 220034 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful in what sense < 1311867916 718236 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derivative < 1311867923 523433 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1311867944 233081 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, Topline with `,", and £ instead of ~,@, and # respectively < 1311867959 268761 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For people with UK keyboard layout < 1311868388 500696 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-27.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311869065 6576 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rakastaa aamupala sylvä samia syödä limsa. < 1311869171 494904 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Translate says that means, "Sam loves to eat breakfast Sylva soda." < 1311869242 112306 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a total rearrangement of the sentence. That's the fourth word, then the first, then the fifth, then the second, then the third, then the sixth. < 1311870133 689545 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :That English phrase could almost be an advertisement. < 1311870135 137787 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "loves breakfast sylv� sam eat lemonade", actually < 1311870158 965195 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1311870173 527714 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, GT tries to connect things in such a way that they make sense. < 1311870189 922461 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if that means utterly ignoring the order the words come in. :P < 1311870200 868275 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in the sense "breakfast loves", although it sounds roughly as wrong as "loves breakfast" for that meaning < 1311870247 588798 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what type of word did you want sylv� to be? < 1311870259 878662 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Finnish-like word beginning with "sylv". < 1311870285 717693 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall such a word < 1311870315 992648 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for names) < 1311870344 265670 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GT is statistical, not lingustical, yes. < 1311870393 249683 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION frowns at its translation of "Al hombre miro yo".
< 1311870404 347752 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought linguistics was a study, not a type of algorithm. < 1311870419 426498 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what does that mean? < 1311870425 654624 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A word-for-word translation is "At the man look I".) < 1311870441 264191 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just meant.. sort-of, "constructed by a machine learning guy, not a linguist". < 1311870449 649481 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311870455 294743 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1311870468 898514 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it was made by a guy. < 1311870477 385568 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, person. AI. Whatever. < 1311870488 827466 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's safe to assume it was a guy < 1311870584 228862 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect it to be have been made by multiple people. < 1311870601 449799 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, multiple guys < 1311870888 418868 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311870896 408647 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbitnymqyrqwyhmg QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311870904 417295 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311871091 573963 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311871512 44593 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311871530 318572 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311871998 392538 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the physical bootstrapper... 3d printer that can print a copy of itself < 1311872005 366651 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1311872021 259341 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_replication.jpg < 1311872209 914104 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311872230 370761 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311872239 477575 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :an exaggeration perhaps < 1311872255 137307 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is cool < 1311872257 162294 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the RepRap thing is kind of a cheat. < 1311872261 402344 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it does not print the circuits < 1311872266 514385 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1311872269 73133 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but work is ongoing for reprapcircuit printing < 1311872275 176678 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already printed some as of about a year ago < 1311872280 690929 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in some simple circuits < 1311872308 219615 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311872368 207300 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sure I want one but I don't know why < 1311872384 239786 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bound to end up killing the environment < 1311872465 126022 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bound" < 1311872469 539575 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Killing" < 1311872483 662380 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One, what does that even mean; two, how the heck can you be so sure about it < 1311872508 424976 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311872510 931005 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans have potentially infinite wants and needs. < 1311872532 344618 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :When these needs are met by material means the environment pays the price. < 1311872574 242869 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if the environment can keep up (= we can make it keep up) < 1311872584 764864 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway a reprap is not nearly powerful enough to achieve anything like that. :p < 1311872636 332773 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it creates a robot with AI < 1311872650 289675 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that AI starts improving itself < 1311872670 218269 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't create a robot, it can only create small parts that fit within it < 1311872679 117156 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly must be done by hand for even the simplest structures < 1311872685 385761 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an AI can't just spontaneously form without a human creating it < 1311872689 422654 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized James Cameron and John Connor have the same Initials. < 1311872708 352768 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RepRap isn't the threat there, the threat is a human who doesn't know what they're doing but is still incredibly intelligent and competent somehow < 1311872783 187553 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a robot could be a philosophical zombie. < 1311872826 456675 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The good news is, in such a world.. you would be mortal and could escape eventually in death. < 1311872912 984061 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :philosophical zombie is a meaningless concept < 1311872942 345067 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dualist crap, "a machine that computes a function f: X -> Y doesn't REALLY compute it unless you can see the cogs" < 1311873027 109058 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozqfhvqwawiahwix JOIN :#esoteric < 1311873050 617951 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1311873054 870309 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll chill out < 1311873076 435873 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1311873081 807452 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't seem unchill < 1311873085 143130 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least any unchiller than usual < 1311873196 292238 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. i guess my points are relevant. but your explanations are also < 1311873277 358929 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311873400 600061 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311873404 634601 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1311873427 703001 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, something really doesn't want me to play Amnesia: The Dark Descent < 1311873442 979750 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On an entirely different topic altogether, I've noticed something < 1311873456 42342 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There're hundreds of esoteric programming languages < 1311873464 495328 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this "something" nubile and bikini-clad? < 1311873467 725125 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But barely any esoteric markup or query languages < 1311873513 818927 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to fix this by MAKING AN ESOTERIC MARKUP LANGUAGE < 1311873534 626177 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: while Pottering(tm) [stick that shit on a t-shirt!] away on my PC one day < 1311873596 919600 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did something whereby I wrote some C comments in a way that I could embed images to better illustrate the given function < 1311873601 794200 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric : But first, goodbye < 1311873612 377507 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to depart on a long and arduous quest < 1311873644 788160 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To eat a plate of a couple of sausages, some fried potatoes, and possibly some veg, while drinking half a glass of lemonade < 1311873648 517634 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1311873651 927611 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Client Quit < 1311873652 796848 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1311873658 896227 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* */ < 1311873673 156479 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1311873719 990872 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just another instance of "comments shouldn't be restricted to plaintext", see @ ;-) < 1311873758 510624 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1311873784 198918 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311873815 799548 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311873918 588814 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm.. src not href < 1311873940 370791 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing a scan on a folder to see if i still have that silly thng < 1311874043 792687 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311874084 31182 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1311874107 197593 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hardest part in the past was trying to add the header crap < 1311874113 781238 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since then i have learned you don't need it < 1311874142 366731 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1311874153 368927 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1311874158 493666 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311874268 244910 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311874275 795772 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311874284 605813 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyeglass prescription contains all zeroes.. < 1311874290 408348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am skeptical that they will actually do anything... < 1311874310 61184 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311874315 420259 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311874388 847303 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Measure them. < 1311874462 311448 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe point it out to the doctor that it contains all zeroes see if they say anything about that. < 1311874503 996153 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be placebo glasses, maybe they work anyway < 1311874528 163881 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... I have actual vision problems. < 1311874551 59533 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worries, the placebo effect is an actual effect < 1311874674 680964 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, but now I've looked at the prescription and I'm pretty sure a zero in every field means that there will be no real vision correction. < 1311874699 952023 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big are the zeroes? :) < 1311874720 653797 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat... < 1311874743 736076 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are some negative zeroes. I'm not really sure what that means. < 1311874779 366952 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess "rounded to zero from below", but that's just a guess. < 1311874783 866124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it means the numbers are small enough to be irrelevant. < 1311874861 712640 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have to round it to 0.25 dioptre increments, I believe, since the measurement systems can't really tell the "correct" value much more accurately than that. < 1311874901 853538 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it say "0" or "zillionquadrilliard and 5 (0)" < 1311874909 534987 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311874916 707210 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the optical power correction field, anyway. I don't recall what the other fields even are. < 1311874946 154785 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :spherical correction, cylindrical correction, axis, uh... there's some other stuff probably. < 1311874950 994986 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so after rounding, what's the point of the classes if it becomes 0? < 1311874954 488530 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they all say zero... < 1311875003 752599 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the doctor said I had 20/20 vision with mild astigmatism. But I don't see anything that corrects astigmatism in this lab report thing. < 1311875005 469813 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Not much, if all the other fields are zero too. < 1311875017 227032 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1311875070 575156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am either a) not actually having vision problems, and this whole "trouble focusing on things" is some kind of illusion b) the doctor was not completely thorough < 1311875098 470384 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if just having a lens corrects some deficiencies in the system; IANAO. (I am not an optometrist.) < 1311875231 897080 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did your measurement place have that machine where you look at a picture of a hot-air balloon over a desert road? < 1311875259 211776 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to think that was just, you know, one model, but turns out the scene is in fact pretty popular, and chosen for a reason. < 1311875323 738918 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's to trick any conscious fixation mechanisms to try focusing to infinity, or some-such.) < 1311875363 810875 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I've never seen that. < 1311875461 879636 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to ask them before I buy anything. < 1311875477 141508 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'd rather not spend money on something that is essentially a flat piece of glass. < 1311875513 424286 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what they use in an autorefractor, which is a device that gives a ballpark estimate of the refractive error, from which they can then start manually adjusting from. < 1311875522 637246 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Did your measurement place have that machine where you look at a picture of a hot-air balloon over a desert road? < 1311875524 228258 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1311875554 142733 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, to the picture? < 1311875612 76682 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :P < 1311875645 932322 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did find one once with Googling, but am having trouble looking for it right now. < 1311875660 517606 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Newer autorefractors feature fixation points that look like a house at the end of a road, a Christmas tree or a hot-air balloon—interesting things that can hold that patient's attention long enough to take the refractive reading." < 1311875665 94251 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems there are alternatives. < 1311875694 167595 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I can find right now are just images of the machines themselves. < 1311875724 531003 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you zoom in enough... < 1311875732 873767 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong angle. :/ < 1311875745 317801 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague feeling the image I saw was in some google-books result about autorefractors. < 1311875746 354676 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reflections. < 1311875973 225425 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Nidek ARK-700A has the hot-air balloon image. You can buy a refurbished one for only $4500, and then look at it. < 1311875983 318850 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The operator's manual doesn't have an image of the target. :/ < 1311876144 652487 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311876154 284666 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311876179 18756 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking of my esoteric markup language < 1311876194 690037 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a good idea for a name for a esoteric query language: < 1311876208 201823 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRee Esoteric Query Language Specification < 1311876215 519446 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or FREQLS for short < 1311876580 289862 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've got an idea for a and a name for b < 1311876591 414309 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone wants to steal the name, just take it < 1311877445 398080 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-70-25.bltmmd.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311877478 73496 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-70-25.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone explain why we have an editing back-and-forth over the list of ideas? < 1311877525 765265 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spambot-type things < 1311877560 717379 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-70-25.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they always change it to the Magic the Gathering/Brainfuck idea. < 1311877571 875890 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-70-25.bltmmd.east.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems more like a persistent person. < 1311877613 374273 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan ok, paintfuck and twoduck, I'll check them out. < 1311877613 445585 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1311877706 664622 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :paintfuck is possibly the only interesting brainfuck derivative in the last, like, five years < 1311877733 846234 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1311877733 918590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1311877738 251997 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311877744 522792 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1311877792 409021 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook! scores points for Discworld reference and DMM-creator-ness < 1311877806 108085 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook! is older than five years I believe < 1311877820 577217 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, 2001 < 1311877833 831306 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1311877840 821952 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311877874 782466 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311877880 407233 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Ook! I already knew < 1311877906 417938 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't find it particularly spectacular, but hey, everybody has their own criteria for evaluating languages < 1311877967 87994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: well Ook! is notable as the first brainfuck derivative of its sort. < 1311877976 558458 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the hipster's trivial brainfuck cipher < 1311877992 960757 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1311877996 421634 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Discworld. < 1311878007 218503 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1311878037 119429 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I tend to think of all those derivatives that are essentially state machines outputting brainfuck code, as trivial encodings < 1311878042 730638 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311878053 38951 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they existed well before 2001 < 1311878606 763377 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311878934 662340 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311879040 710841 :DocHerrings!~DocHerrin@pool-71-246-70-25.bltmmd.east.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330] < 1311879097 586910 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: eat and sleep < 1311881351 629990 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311882091 778718 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311883879 214484 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311883994 700377 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311884769 15349 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311884932 226323 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :July_ < 1311884936 498320 :July_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311885447 631861 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311886247 642969 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311886292 702922 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin_ < 1311886315 336847 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1311886332 743254 :copumpkin_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311886769 700314 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311887151 560073 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311888211 602106 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[For writing a max() by hand] < 1311888237 652104 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : s****: can you actually do better than O(n)? you kinda need to perform an operation on every element of the array, unless you already know something about them (like that they're in order) < 1311888282 796286 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :S****> S*****: do an efficient sort, grab the last/first item. done < 1311888291 415629 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i died < 1311888323 123985 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1311888406 208095 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because O(n log n) > O(n)? < 1311888740 235325 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311889022 237986 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-27.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311890356 485832 :jix_!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311890356 934026 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311891503 306367 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re O(n) vs. O(n log n), obviously the "bigger is better" here. < 1311891526 561827 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311891557 572606 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right. definitely a situation for a intercal bogosort < 1311891762 578954 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311892011 812870 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A general rule of thumb is, you should always aspire to have at least one factorial in your time complexity. < 1311892244 268680 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably an ackerman function < 1311892306 671716 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311892573 597612 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy of joys. 5 days until the US hits undefined behavior. < 1311892611 342221 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thisll be interesting < 1311892618 712981 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1311892630 490026 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US is both going to default and forbidden from defaulting. < 1311892632 381250 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :odds on the short term extension being passed? < 1311892646 286416 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: With the GOP running things, "cold day in hell". < 1311892675 70911 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that the FAA has already been shut down because of this shit. < 1311892682 801651 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its definitely gonna be the default, eh < 1311892695 339782 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For about a week now, too. < 1311892783 640488 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how did i fly today < 1311892898 804598 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sans most of the FAA. < 1311892912 700621 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've pretty much just got the air traffic controllers working. < 1311893138 889715 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1311893141 555268 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1311893204 743680 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Congress has not passed a bill allowing for funding for the FAA. < 1311893279 722353 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they cant appropriate anything without resolving the crisis? < 1311893292 383280 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaving this country soon enough after the likely default that I will hopefully be able to make it < 1311893294 908967 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :politics is the enemy of economy :/ < 1311893309 303013 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you moving? < 1311893341 140005 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm headed back to Canada because my job ends < 1311893370 858828 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you < 1311893381 541968 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :may i join you < 1311893385 903558 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Because they have passed 2 dozen bills total. < 1311893472 660472 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311893488 87663 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1311893514 845236 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311893517 952645 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311893698 670154 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311893746 249641 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my plan at this point entails a) get as much of my money as I can out of USD < 1311893770 441846 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good plan! < 1311893776 966390 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) gtfo < 1311893793 569557 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Shame it's non-trivial for me to gtfo. < 1311893801 427193 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that is a damned good plan. < 1311893919 42610 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Fuck. < 1311893931 572817 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the Treasury has the authority to mint coins of arbitrary designation. < 1311893950 560618 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could remain "solvent" by having them mint a $2 trillion coin. And deposit it in the Fed. < 1311893965 959428 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have a nice, tidy hyperinflation problem. < 1311893973 403853 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311894062 849087 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? 2 trillion? thats the amount the debt ceiling has to go up? < 1311894122 523606 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Overstatement. < 1311894183 386547 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the amount then? < 1311894252 367028 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The amount by which the ceiling needs to go up depends on how much gets cut < 1311894261 846615 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or how much new revenue is generated < 1311894278 958613 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The debt ceiling is currently at about 14 trillion USD. < 1311894354 41524 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, the US GDP is *also* about 14 trillion USD. < 1311894427 393950 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obama should just start firing people at the DHS until he can extend the default < 1311894438 551810 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1311894448 50087 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tsa < 1311894468 359898 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: He isn't capable of doing so. < 1311894472 676012 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I know :( < 1311894479 186418 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most he can do is ask the appointed head of the DHS or TSA to do so. < 1311894494 916596 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can also fire said person and hire one who will < 1311894500 941066 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No he can't. < 1311894513 470227 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The President has 0 firing capacity. < 1311894520 600741 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dhs head isnt in his cabinet? < 1311894527 205843 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can't fire his cabinet. < 1311894534 602245 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can only appoint. < 1311894555 369398 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL (again): the constitution is stupid < 1311894567 195533 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry, he actually can. < 1311894576 787608 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the Senate has to approve of new appointments. < 1311894581 291132 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1311894587 799990 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning if he pulled that, he'd basically not have a cabinet. < 1311894592 823252 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1311895138 481891 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Who chooses which parts of the government suffer from the default first? < 1311895162 359139 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Treasury. < 1311895212 371787 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the Constitution, the authority to spend lies with the Senate, but they have opted to delegate that upon the Treasury in the executive branch. < 1311895320 60766 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Can they choose to withhold congressional salary first? < 1311895331 217344 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311895383 409003 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should do that < 1311895393 570930 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also can someone please send me an email? < 1311895407 689262 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can provide an address, I'm testing a forwarding setup < 1311895991 633822 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311896498 749032 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311897863 880272 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311897959 525366 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311899521 367926 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311903467 601330 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311903508 630053 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, sure < 1311903553 217089 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311903721 616390 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311903791 730206 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ? < 1311903822 517165 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: someone else already did < 1311903825 608679 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks though < 1311903835 849159 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1311904015 772522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : total used free shared buffers cached < 1311904015 825358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mem: 16037 7654 8383 0 353 5648 < 1311904015 825576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-/+ buffers/cache: 1652 14385 < 1311904015 825688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap: 4094 6 4088 < 1311904022 411321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the heck... < 1311904026 504535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can I be using swap!? < 1311904033 717127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. come ON < 1311904056 886862 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel doesn't unswap pages except on demand. < 1311904067 522094 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is generally a pessimisation. < 1311904084 311156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well no issue here, I'm just confused that I started using swap at all < 1311904089 742430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been doing anything heavy < 1311904120 188002 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. 16 gigs? Yeah, it'd be pretty hard to make that swap. < 1311904134 55169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, indeed < 1311904139 509563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ swapon -s < 1311904139 582687 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filename Type Size Used Priority < 1311904139 634732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/sda3 partition 2096476 3096 1 < 1311904139 634940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/sdb3 partition 2096476 3096 1 < 1311904140 554081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1311904143 233188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen < 1311904611 930411 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311904762 540856 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311904908 991332 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229162034.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311905080 524150 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo! < 1311905080 613355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1311905151 492282 :CakeProphet!~adam@h249.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311905151 563795 :CakeProphet!~adam@h249.29.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1311905151 616262 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311905233 350261 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHAT COULD POSSIBLY. BUT _POSSIBLY_. GO WRONG??????? < 1311905235 771975 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1311905313 883852 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311905483 857177 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311905693 246696 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : The person who formulated the Sanskrit language < 1311905738 203209 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially inventing something like BNF millennia before bachus-naur were born, afaiu < 1311905766 8196 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, iirc, with a smattering of Perligata, except sanskrit rather than latin. < 1311905902 358632 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311905917 685011 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311905940 539372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311905986 869235 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311906000 52580 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet: you're the only person who consistently complains about other people being rude to you, so either there's institutionalised oppression or you're just misreading tones < 1311906025 198604 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311906027 463515 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (jerk) < 1311906125 632993 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+his < 1311906449 745061 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311906629 405639 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : But barely any esoteric markup or query languages < 1311906646 243074 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311906647 26650 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :would zzo's texnicard count? < 1311906649 706036 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1311906657 712988 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1311906663 355365 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1311906672 655976 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing impossible to read code into a commercial lib :o < 1311906689 926861 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how job securing < 1311906692 532247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, suggestion intercal/sql hybrid. Both are traditionally upper case < 1311906743 425493 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FROM .1 <- SELECT PLEASE (222) NEXT. < 1311906747 477519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311906756 930611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, joins could be done with COME FROM < 1311906769 720110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEHOW < 1311906794 745896 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if INTERCAL has a suitable set of instructions for monadic use. < 1311906838 525375 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: basically I'm writing Arm SIMD code < 1311906846 357933 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2~4 times faster than C++ < 1311906859 484846 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1311906880 428200 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But because math operations are pipelined you have to scramble your code to make it go faster < 1311907029 588871 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble your code < 1311907029 677864 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yu oedcro < 1311907045 379412 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job fungot < 1311907046 71222 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: whenever the quota for this referendum must list both the current players. if the < 1311907053 711433 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the what < 1311907055 689438 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get 2 operations per cycle! < 1311907069 98020 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one of them has to be math and one of them has to be load/store < 1311907095 427653 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you start a multiply the result isn't available until 5 or 6 cycles later < 1311907102 864542 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read it before that it stalls < 1311907121 123586 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the kind of thing a good compiler _should_ be able to do by itself, right? < 1311907137 522420 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1311907166 245751 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are intrinsincs for C++, maybe the compiler produces good code with those < 1311907176 720732 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also dunno if compilers do pipelining < 1311907906 492774 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311908423 991309 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311908425 99693 :jcp|1!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311908462 794479 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311908547 460545 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311908554 29837 :jcp|other!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311908740 923244 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311908820 132446 :jcp!alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311908837 463487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311908964 333621 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311909444 119 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pratchett without footnotes = fail < 1311910151 962110 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311910424 814251 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311910435 151441 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311910915 680776 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311911192 713841 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311911460 987796 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311911495 583358 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311911561 583451 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311911815 687156 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311911905 29057 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311912106 835699 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311912237 623682 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311912882 740419 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311913307 319673 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311913437 465334 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311913575 832856 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1311913846 946361 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311913983 146131 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311914420 63880 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311914478 929152 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311914873 27321 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311914966 289972 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311915235 788230 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311915406 468437 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311915541 590012 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311915907 143658 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311916063 207918 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311916409 410134 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311916555 698718 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311916637 652417 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:08:35 But they always change it to the Magic the Gathering/Brainfuck idea. < 1311916640 818794 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:08:46 Seems more like a persistent person. < 1311916653 480148 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's simply changing it to the very oldest version of the page. < 1311916682 820885 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this channel so sleepy of late < 1311916692 869721 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a few hours activity each day < 1311916700 907475 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: vacation time? < 1311916710 125814 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1311916716 627644 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats where ive been < 1311916751 148531 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there's some kind of link which causes that oldest version to be saved, which a spambot has picked up. < 1311916777 662701 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it has a very broken way of following links. hm. < 1311916829 354794 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well can you lock it to reversion? < 1311916912 158604 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311916941 558569 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not an admin. < 1311916955 917239 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1311917066 359928 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311917457 163398 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311917552 623551 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311917564 670643 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or otherwise i'd have banned Nthern for not responding to my messages. Grmle. < 1311917572 480791 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Grmble. < 1311917620 235102 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :icwutudidthar < 1311917645 567819 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :usure? < 1311917818 23424 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311917958 143186 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311918087 75817 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311918285 144164 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311918455 934216 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311918592 92564 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311919070 785482 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311919198 426279 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311919569 953818 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311919692 159650 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311920186 172370 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311920342 312199 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311920686 848977 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311920812 901270 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311921186 359093 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311921327 529133 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311921684 909996 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311921822 994031 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311921910 697454 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311922200 966543 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311922332 182153 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311922845 561186 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311922970 657185 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311923348 311760 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311923500 474830 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311923848 361231 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311923982 474528 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311924057 496987 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311924351 444896 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anybody cared to make a category for languages where the computation always terminates? They form quite an important subclass of languages. < 1311924351 516559 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311924428 199277 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this class of languages has seen a lot of research, too, such as Curry's ?I calculus ('53). < 1311924428 550969 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311924475 852287 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1311924484 228829 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311924613 313660 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@Taneb test < 1311924613 405171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1311924861 956811 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311924997 54630 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311925168 536431 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, for instance, almost all "regular" mathematical functions are computable by languages that only have loops that always terminate. Ackermann's function is not one of them. :) < 1311925228 905132 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311925232 284300 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I misremembered ?I's computational class - but what about primitive recursive functions? < 1311925361 622450 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311925368 777239 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311925382 423270 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages where computation always terminates fall into one of a number of classes < 1311925397 639148 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Category:Computational_class < 1311925431 461398 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, nevermind. < 1311925511 754974 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311925527 525276 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311925527 579271 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1311925543 20970 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20 < 1311926014 440796 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need a name for my esoteric markup langauge < 1311926040 844883 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boxen? < 1311926052 299355 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311926192 405757 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311926298 755320 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes, the class of always-terminating languages is missing from there < 1311926338 41217 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, while important theoretically, the Chomsky hierarchy of languages is by no means the only, or even the most important, classification criterion. < 1311926437 271488 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311926552 80836 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311926688 212847 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311927166 90766 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311927304 215353 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311927391 462054 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1311927410 348615 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1311927412 529886 :Taneb!540d59f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.89.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311927786 612528 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311927926 781719 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311927987 815240 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1311928394 319855 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311928523 333044 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311928895 20309 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311929022 120532 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311929395 31085 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311929526 193902 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311929899 424195 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311930026 539898 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311930407 405758 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311930536 567927 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311930909 369115 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311931040 536402 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311931408 160119 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311931550 327152 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311932014 301236 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311932150 475259 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311932515 319195 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311932662 593193 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311933016 334758 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311933143 482426 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311933516 50509 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311933630 503561 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311934014 554560 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1311934016 977622 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311934039 588683 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :another ddr video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yueZ1Dsm9JI \o/ < 1311934158 364101 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311934176 414649 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1311934548 363376 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311934675 305067 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311935046 974887 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311935182 340964 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311935548 436036 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311935675 490906 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311936048 117153 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311936179 194830 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311936549 568544 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311936687 573869 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311937049 268301 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311937182 447718 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311937662 574215 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311937795 532164 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311937795 685895 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311937879 330090 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1311938162 507349 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311938297 682679 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311938663 309473 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311938789 386217 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311939163 776262 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311939301 942932 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311939658 476527 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311939770 449130 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311939903 551645 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311940271 372733 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311940395 524548 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311940774 291346 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311940918 695932 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311940922 142568 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311941276 734826 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311941397 765765 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311941472 879164 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311941776 608978 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311941902 776524 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311942276 581765 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311942412 664039 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311942896 400062 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311943025 459153 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311943334 359265 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311943407 524114 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311943423 670050 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1311943429 756143 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-206.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311943562 678208 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311943929 800312 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311944067 892769 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311944433 522689 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311944575 551400 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311944936 721183 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311944970 417781 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311945057 860693 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311945471 901359 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311945571 747335 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311946079 537607 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311946210 709003 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311946580 690015 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311946716 821193 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311947080 897861 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311947212 120527 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311947686 948268 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311947811 876411 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311947812 92827 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311947816 70863 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1311948179 407486 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1311948295 393543 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311948309 471627 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's an unimplemented esolang deserving implemenation < 1311948311 750780 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1311948424 612224 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311948542 919734 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do Category:Unimplemented in alphabetical order. < 1311948551 166044 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the common good. < 1311948667 704725 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea! < 1311948680 732782 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x29c! < 1311948916 619309 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311949278 393497 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1311949435 575759 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311949731 973353 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311949831 687635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311949835 548224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERNET < 1311949835 601367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 7 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1311949864 658974 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311949870 175246 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1311949938 915654 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311949939 589887 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311950252 148794 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-192-117.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT : < 1311950286 994341 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311950371 752373 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311950578 939419 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311950848 351559 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311950964 453301 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311951117 975408 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311951597 336645 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311951692 140879 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311951880 402955 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311951951 978306 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311951982 964201 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1311952213 862185 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311952214 556056 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311952276 182745 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311952339 286618 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311952492 407908 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"EDIT: Thanks to everyone who wrote with an explanation, especially the electronics engineers. I now have about 11 different plausible explanations for this behaviour. Only 3 of which involve actual time warps. :-) < 1311952496 481941 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1311952554 658562 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on yesterday's iwc annotation) < 1311952577 80300 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh DMM < 1311952589 820985 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's annotation is pretty funny < 1311952641 265908 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it may be assumed that hordes are attracted to hoards. < 1311952657 778427 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is little data on the reverse < 1311952675 970450 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1311952698 950058 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sure genghis khan got plenty of tribute < 1311952724 580554 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, that < 1311952779 769714 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311952793 346078 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311952906 89020 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, that edit above could have fit just as well in CoAP. where it seems to me DMM is making a much larger fraction of the posts than he used to... < 1311952953 206052 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put events from my life into CoAP, what's saying DMM doesn't? < 1311952959 184733 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311952973 466649 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's CoAP is a DMM work! < 1311953039 754125 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...let's hope it's not based on a real life event. < 1311953082 351310 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, DMM and the comic irregulars do a lot at work that isn't necassarily work < 1311953090 275395 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as writing Darths and Droids < 1311953113 81753 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but at least they _claim_ to do it during lunch hour < 1311953145 649951 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And making the CiSRA puzzles < 1311953154 502128 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is backed by Canon, so it may be work < 1311953159 982779 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that might be something ... right < 1311953218 595613 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just have this image of DMM being the world's best time planner. < 1311953250 317337 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is a time ninja < 1311953273 425782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CoAP? < 1311953280 89655 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments on a postcard < 1311953281 554651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments on a Postcard < 1311953285 717585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that one. < 1311953294 19305 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CoaP in that case, but whatever. < 1311953317 289983 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is busted
< 1311953320 368109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : He is a time ninja < 1311953328 248800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the real reason his clock is running slow. < 1311953412 256340 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of someone mentioning that one of tvtropes' memes is wild mass guessing "* is a time lord". i wonder if someone put it on a DMM related page... < 1311953412 401380 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311953447 577226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I have a suspicion that it'll be part of a crackdown at some point. < 1311953458 162888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given TV Tropes' recent swerves towards awfulness. < 1311953510 525064 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :google doesn't find either "DMM is a time lord" or "David Morgan-Mar is a time lord", anyway < 1311953527 106506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know your duty. < 1311953558 627181 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of the CiSRA puzzles, anyone want to form a team < 1311953568 35459 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i avoid my duties by carefully never registering to anything new < 1311953648 923752 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a few of the answers in 1D < 1311953686 189338 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 is Iguanas in Pyjamas, 7 is Seal or no Seal, 9 is Harry Otter, 14 is Swan with the Wind < 1311953830 20606 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311953930 168356 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311953930 349161 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311954451 371051 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311954596 413077 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311954971 828896 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311955097 964966 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311955528 823281 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311955612 138122 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311955612 724662 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311955723 718200 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311955745 327707 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311955843 735811 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311956027 897010 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311956127 210532 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311956303 141860 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311956369 486203 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1311956583 390117 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1311956596 94131 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311956696 361383 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1311956885 118746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/j297s/if_g_o_f_is_surjective_why_doesnt_g_need_to_be/ < 1311956891 349415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make head nor tail of this question. < 1311957046 740996 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311957046 952876 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311957167 96465 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aibohphobia < 1311957172 844834 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fear of palindromes < 1311957311 730333 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he should have used notation more suitable for ascii < 1311957416 428313 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311957499 860542 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the title has g and f switched, anyway < 1311957518 348682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1311957534 580999 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if g o f is surjective, then g definitely is. < 1311957585 146933 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the answers confuse me even more, because none of them are the obvious reply. < 1311957681 478496 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311957687 567884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311957712 148508 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's obvious from the actual question that he meant to ask about f o g, in which case g doesn't need to be surjective. < 1311957739 594703 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1311957761 961218 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, but the answers to *that* make no sensee. < 1311957764 23605 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sense < 1311957836 730078 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311957948 696505 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :frozenzephyr's answer looks clear enough... < 1311958106 165099 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311958159 274154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes. < 1311958257 771847 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311958369 951867 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311958581 727061 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311958657 772326 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311958801 901145 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311958914 906060 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1311958936 827006 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311958953 973227 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1311959233 920735 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311959262 98524 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311959275 871937 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311959399 861668 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311959557 815387 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311959799 959373 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311959942 903187 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311959946 371641 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56305.0 < 1311959952 348786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god this is amazing. < 1311959955 419061 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bay 12? < 1311959962 91753 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF. < 1311959964 193327 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like Dwarf Fortress < 1311960050 861010 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1311960059 95304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1311960081 825800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarf Fortress science seems to be along the lines of "how can we trick the game into letting us do X implausible thing?" < 1311960107 540091 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If real-world science was like that I would be happy. < 1311960132 140094 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If real world science was like that, everyone would be a scientist < 1311960134 106825 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's engineering, not science. < 1311960231 692714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's science if you don't know what the rules are, and engineering if you do < 1311960300 904318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and this is a kind of blend of the two, I suppose. < 1311960301 778867 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311960308 349726 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay, class, today we'll be making a perpetual motion engine! Urist McStudent, you grab a pickaxe and dig a channel to this pattern, Solon McPupil, you start filling those buckets with water" < 1311960331 741015 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311960334 8526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They know the rules pretty well, but not the exact particulars relevant to the problem. < 1311960355 838251 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's SCIENCE is more fun to say than It's ENGINEERING < 1311960389 468705 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I base all my desicions on what is more fun to say < 1311960422 287934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Tower-cap < 1311960435 769035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, that 'fun' in the DF sense? < 1311960450 523305 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost. < 1311960454 795995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The concept of things smaller than monarch butterflies, however, has led to enormous controversy. Although, obviously, it would be hard to see something smaller than a butterfly, it should be possible to show that it exists because, just like butterflies, it would sometimes get stuck in doors and prevent them from closing." < 1311960491 702607 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For those who forgot or are scum and haven't read Boatmurdered, the fall of Boatmurdered was largely due to a butterfly jamming a crucial door.) < 1311960525 561858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read Boatmurdered, but I forgot < 1311960532 827175 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1311960538 247968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the fall of Boatmurdered was largely due to people deliberately trying to kill it, though < 1311960538 665800 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't get into Boutmurdered < 1311960555 385424 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I've just had an idea < 1311960583 616317 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Us lot, doing a bloodline game! < 1311960583 889365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, ISTR that the disaster that brought it to its knees and final tantrum spiral was that the main doors weren't closed in time after the lava flood was triggered. < 1311960596 322838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, regrettably, neither me nor ais have played DF. < 1311960598 54259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of us don't play DF < 1311960610 248305 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even. Better. < 1311960615 854688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee has, but I wouldn't let Lymee near anything I wanted to survive for more than twenty seconds. < 1311960619 471441 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311960627 81395 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, can it wait until next Monday? < 1311960635 499120 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1311960655 813385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a PC, I tend to only (although not exclusively) play open-source games < 1311960655 998627 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Lymee has, but I wouldn't let Lymee near anything I wanted to survive for more than twenty seconds. < 1311960658 477249 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better < 1311960661 209437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones that aren't, I've generally paid money for < 1311960671 907651 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, is that so? < 1311960681 971913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a couple came free with packets of breakfast cereal < 1311960682 265780 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can pay money for Dwarf Fortress if you reeeaaally want to < 1311960688 721266 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like to see what I do if I want a fortress dead? < 1311960692 813605 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee, THE PAIN OF ELLIOTT'S RUTIAN TEST SERVER STILL STABS AT MY HEART < 1311960711 254405 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SPIDERS, OH GOD, THE SPIDERS < 1311960718 114993 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can put it on a memory stick and put it in your cereal box < 1311960769 571036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1311960778 154759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it's happened so far, doesn't mean it'll always happen in future < 1311960843 885716 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311960983 546819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee, also, killing a fortress... isn't the hardest thing. < 1311961015 208496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually, a good way to make a fort invasion-proof is to make the entrance be a "magma elevator", a 1-tile shaft filled with magma, that is kept from falling all the way down by a set of pumps. Since dwarves are not subject to temperature while falling, as it was proved on the Last Stand thread, your dorfs would fall through several levels of magma unharmed, while any flying foe that attempted to do the same would be burned to a crisp < 1311961016 725556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instantly. < 1311961041 745115 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once tried to make an indoor fishing place. It worked. < 1311961047 628006 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until it didn't. < 1311961079 108324 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ended having a river flooding into my fortress < 1311961131 21497 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1311961275 836888 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311961419 21013 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311961445 270164 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311961490 339735 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I tried to play DF I just ended up tripping over my own perfectionism. < 1311961638 648566 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is undecided whether to return his new Nook Touch and wait to see what the new Kindle will be like, or to get a Sony, or what
< 1311961748 842776 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you want neither of all those things < 1311961775 25749 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311961775 365295 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, the origin of suffering is desire for e-book readers. < 1311961798 904413 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311961809 715925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: can I persuade you to mindlessly boycott Sony without telling you why? < 1311961819 998173 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no. < 1311961827 674158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was just wondering < 1311961830 994150 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you might be able to, but I don't see how < 1311961838 58002 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I knew about it, I'd stop < 1311961850 787543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, if you don't boycott Sony, ais523 will find you and hit you. < 1311961876 735779 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, may I ask why you'd want me to boycott Sony? < 1311961886 542797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: sure, it's IRC, you can ask anything < 1311961891 861938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't say I wanted you to boycott Sony < 1311961902 532764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said I wondered whether I could persuade you to < 1311961941 527149 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may be too easily persuadable < 1311961954 760772 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Persuaded to get a Nook :/ < 1311961995 94455 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although most of my issues are things that could in theory be fixed in updates < 1311962001 491401 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/most/all/ < 1311962088 957431 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screaming of the damned will be greatly reduced in the next version < 1311962104 84430 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the head of hitler < 1311962115 106283 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've got a workaround for that already < 1311962152 175889 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they'll just keep the brain in a jar. although it's said someone at canon may have a patent on that. < 1311962257 39550 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a couple of ebook readers...kindle for android, something kindle-like for ipod, calibre's built-in reader... < 1311962257 365354 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311962269 918644 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :these all have all the things i'm looking for in a reader < 1311962274 430343 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka "free" < 1311962297 207510 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311962299 165077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, is 'working' not another? < 1311962341 665961 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i could hardly call them readers did they not display text in a readable form, could i? < 1311962420 106577 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On some level, perhaps. < 1311962480 295391 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311962485 969215 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they work and i did not pay for them. i am satisfied. < 1311962562 824552 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311962567 299711 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :someday when i have disposable income, and e-ink is true color and fast, i'll consider getting something with that < 1311962669 827844 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311962698 633997 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine an e-ink laptop that is front-lit by a single led in the keyboard base. < 1311962712 879366 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing would use so little power if done right < 1311962795 941692 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine an unlit e-ink laptop, and one of those "shake and it produces enough energy for the LED" flashlights that you hold with the other hand. That thing would be so user-friendly, it's not even a thing. < 1311962796 122879 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311962844 970104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, your average redditor wouldn't have a problem with the hand movement. < 1311962873 889344 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311962931 696458 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*chirp* < 1311962995 964834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chirps in real life
< 1311963006 598711 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :charp < 1311963008 568781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually got quite good at doing chirps, and I'm not entirely sure why < 1311963011 249499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, you are a giant insect. < 1311963019 437805 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherp < 1311963024 360546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT EXPLAINS THE BEARD < 1311963032 203721 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i thought Gregor was the giant insect < 1311963052 36823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, antisemite. < 1311963081 957262 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, dung beetle < 1311963094 798360 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311963114 231467 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell the difference, i know < 1311963166 525261 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311963212 888066 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311963358 172164 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311963555 726408 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :O HI < 1311963580 988734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311963713 873118 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311963791 818540 :angstrom!~Unknown@unaffiliated/angstrom JOIN :#esoteric < 1311963792 330520 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311963804 351595 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION spots someone tiny
< 1311963815 354611 :angstrom!~Unknown@unaffiliated/angstrom PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-> < 1311963961 801669 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311964077 527864 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1311964328 139060 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311964466 338879 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311964657 939822 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-214-156.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1311964829 859258 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311964876 889145 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311965101 857307 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311965470 695819 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311965606 876588 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311965696 566735 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-27.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311966077 160261 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311966085 598459 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311966146 596622 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311966357 357402 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311966361 908379 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311966584 871491 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311966631 998762 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1311966724 998944 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311966945 864850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still reading that DF submarine thread < 1311966960 982903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got even better at the point where someone suggested making a submarine intended for working under magma out of ice < 1311967131 890347 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311967263 931733 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311967373 802251 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1311967405 23389 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1311967666 986937 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311967793 111685 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311968041 421097 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could a DF submarine be powered and directed? < 1311968067 337885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: at the point in the thread I've reached, they haven't got them to work at all yet < 1311968074 862037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to act in ways that defy physics < 1311968122 382402 :angstrom!~Unknown@unaffiliated/angstrom PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF? < 1311968142 381735 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311968161 255950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwarf fortres < 1311968163 503803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fortress < 1311968204 811743 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1311968209 887774 :angstrom!~Unknown@unaffiliated/angstrom PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. not my metier < 1311968317 301668 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311968334 818246 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1311968418 752919 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311968490 985624 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-28.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1311968836 383313 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311968961 91380 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311969007 549246 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if someone were to make a haskell based dsl for describing FPGA programs, would the clock skew through a circuit belong in the function type? < 1311969042 427755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :measuring clock skew at all is probably the wrong level of abstraction < 1311969065 567968 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it? < 1311969081 181860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it depends on the physical dimensions of the chip < 1311969100 714623 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229161172.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not wayward < 1311969197 298188 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B13322E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311969501 387091 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311969647 564295 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311969962 388819 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1311970120 721505 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311970261 797225 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311970619 206529 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311970769 117011 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311970925 714836 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1311971116 910423 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311971204 182552 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311971733 32134 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311971861 102153 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311971918 312570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made many improvements to the program for typesetting Bird style Haskell programs. Currently this is still the non-prettyprinting version. (If I make prettyprinting, it will be a separate file) < 1311971967 472383 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work if you have an outer control sequence at the beginning of a paragraph, but now it makes \bye to be not outer. < 1311972114 284443 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The updated file is: http://sprunge.us/YZfh < 1311972191 564498 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why has more than once the list of ideas being replaced by 'This is a list of ideas of programming languages and other stuff. * Magic The Gathering card deck of Brainfuck'? < 1311972214 205939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: confused spambot < 1311972233 515131 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311972379 668223 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311972722 101525 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311972806 750552 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311972929 905325 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311973309 496897 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311973445 777223 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311973593 229582 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-51.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311973669 81257 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311973676 970092 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waves.
< 1311973702 741192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waves back
< 1311973724 854020 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems quiet in here. < 1311973749 474839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on the time of day < 1311973753 521721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the most active people aren't here right now < 1311973756 295225 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is < 1311973777 234244 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of people but not much going on, wish people wouldn't just idle like that. < 1311973791 882562 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes it seem more is here than there is. < 1311973792 939023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idling's usual so that conversations get a chance to get started < 1311973799 84650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a conversation starts, then people have a chance to join in < 1311973809 199279 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311973812 797918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people leave as soon as there isn't a conversation, then it won't get started at all < 1311973824 279065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you're new to IRC? < 1311973923 198557 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah one thing about the client I use can't go back and see things I missed. Bah. < 1311973923 400668 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311973955 577234 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I missit the first time it's gone. Meh, screen reader. < 1311973980 528180 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like the shittiest client ever < 1311974014 947275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like Vorpal's client < 1311974038 494727 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311974046 595688 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :miranda, eh < 1311974047 804450 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's not the client as much as it is the fact I can't see it. Have the same issue with mIRC. Screen reader and all, can't find one that is more accessible with them. Chatting in a normal window is fine but for some reason chat window like this doesn't let me tab to the output like it should. < 1311974052 77101 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1311974084 311690 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could look at the logs. < 1311974106 153936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, it's an accessibility problem < 1311974106 300434 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this one makes them and if it does not sure where... But good itea there. < 1311974114 163176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, most programs are really bad about that < 1311974115 419129 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1311974117 433089 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adaria: this may help: http://forums.miranda-im.org/showthread.php?24751-How-to-define-scrollback < 1311974120 440346 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is publicly logged. < 1311974124 80786 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :link in the topic < 1311974136 552431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can ask the client to repeat the topic to you by writing /topic < 1311974150 4244 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what screen reader? < 1311974199 511394 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-28.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1311974324 748069 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311974355 239955 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-51.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been awhile since I've hung out on here, but I'm too lazy to check the logs. :P < 1311974451 808320 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311974508 69686 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK there, set up logging, should help. < 1311974531 223677 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some cases scrollback might not be a feature of the client, it will be feature of the terminal emulator < 1311974611 519263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: most people don't use clients that work like that < 1311974625 452472 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls ircII did
< 1311974636 53057 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends whether or not it uses graphical user interface < 1311974728 639771 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scrolling back works fine in PM and IM windows using MirandaIM but chat windows act differently apparently. It's not a huge deal now that I got logging on. < 1311974770 994523 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what screen reader do you use < 1311974812 329149 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found two "accessible" IRC clients, IMC and NightOwl but the latter has a runtime error and the former the link is broken to download. I may have better luck on my main PC using mIRC and TIRC scripts for jaws, I am on my netbook at the moment using NVDA, no scripts for it yet. < 1311974878 781901 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311974990 606271 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311974996 868820 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this room had a cunfusing room desc on it, what usually goes on in here? < 1311975010 565397 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name makes sense but the desc did not. < 1311975023 760843 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much it. < 1311975025 589980 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirc with jaws appears to be the only solution around < 1311975033 723720 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Officially, we discuss esoteric programming languages < 1311975035 512651 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do things here related to computing mostly < 1311975041 273561 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-51.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usually related to programming, but we're not picky. < 1311975061 652217 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other day, we discussed chess variant markup languages < 1311975064 646495 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah ok, esoteric to me was not tech related heh. Ah well. < 1311975071 572833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a common mistake < 1311975079 115203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, we're not entirely sure where you should go instead < 1311975083 83522 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stay and have fun! < 1311975085 84858 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B13322E.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330] < 1311975088 520529 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This server has SO many rooms though it's insane. < 1311975096 635264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you find out, let us know so we can send other people there for you to talk to < 1311975112 734498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode's mostly a programming (specifically open source) network < 1311975122 276556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so more or less everything here is tech related < 1311975126 857627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way or another < 1311975171 394143 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fine, I am not a tech minded ... well ok I am but I know zip about languages, I'm more of a play with hardware and new tech toys than software bit. < 1311975209 561790 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is some new tech out there that seems interesting to me, I wanna play with it. < 1311975211 565036 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might consider a different network then. < 1311975227 2662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, we could use a hardware guy. < 1311975230 105939 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1311975237 729702 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or girl < 1311975250 972126 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are six thousand chans on freenode, I'm sure I'll find something. < 1311975253 193581 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guy is gender neutral to me < 1311975260 403620 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1311975266 490242 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :again < 1311975268 721445 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us know < 1311975323 252194 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Female here but I use guy as androgenous too. < 1311975376 768668 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-51.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adaria: So are you visually impaired, or do you just feel like using a screen reader? < 1311975382 955223 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess unisex would be the proper word, meh whatever, it works for both. < 1311975388 485700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: heh, in most channels, there wouldn't even be a need to ask < 1311975393 730245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, that's actually a plausible question < 1311975398 98684 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311975408 113091 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-51.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know, right. :P < 1311975415 431126 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine an adrogenous specific pronoun < 1311975422 320260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it"? < 1311975431 588537 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely blind here. < 1311975451 441441 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, "it" is that's more of non-human < 1311975522 38585 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely blind? < 1311975522 601278 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1311975534 259133 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never met anyone who's been completely blind before < 1311975568 688097 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've met a blind person, worked as a programmer < 1311975570 847138 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May be getting an IRC client for my phone. iPhone, some love it, others hate it but to me it is truly a lifeline. < 1311975592 975075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who can only read things within about 2cm of their eyes < 1311975600 345491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching them reading is bizarre < 1311975629 406562 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311975633 750465 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That person needs glasses, methinks < 1311975657 136870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's the problem, or it'd have been fixed like that already < 1311975657 465639 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went blind last year, well lost my good eye, other was blind already. I could never be a programmer, it would fry my brain, I have great reading comprehension and hands on with science stuff but programming languages are just as hard for me as math. < 1311975663 213863 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I think glasses aren't likely to be able to help much if you see that badly from the start < 1311975663 361979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even shortsightedness isn't that shortsighted < 1311975679 295221 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping < 1311975686 358915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: pong < 1311975689 637533 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shortsightedness can vary a lot < 1311975691 14232 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good, I'm connected < 1311975691 85164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was an unexpected ping < 1311975692 98554 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION met a blind mathematician once
< 1311975695 162184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'd talked about a minute ago < 1311975704 129428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have /ctcp pinged yourself < 1311975714 623257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bounces off the server twice, so it's a good way to check connectedness < 1311975724 85811 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mildly short-sighted, I use my glasses to watch TV and in lessons, but otherwise I'm fine < 1311975742 618429 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheras my dad has more extreme short-sightedness < 1311975749 316370 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they can't read but that close they might want to try braille. Even though tech is making braille seem so non essential, there really is nothing like being able to read yourself in your own head so to speak. < 1311975762 657415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had thoughts wrt the @ pointer thing. < 1311975783 179823 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the point when I tried on his glasses the only thing I could focus on was about a mile away < 1311975786 84084 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi Adaria < 1311975795 630185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I had thoughts with respect to @ too < 1311975803 77668 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get sick of trying to 'read' my own writing in stories and the screen reader just kills the tone that I might otherwise be able to put into it if I could read it myself. < 1311975805 390941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concluded a lot of interesting things, which are probably mutually contradictory < 1311975808 342797 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh dear; you first, please tell me they don't involve Feather < 1311975808 504339 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-51.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adaria: I talked a bit with a blind programmer once. I don't recall if he was born sighted, but I gathered it was a real challenge to hold everything in his head at once, especially with all of the screen-reader noise from punctuation. < 1311975828 231166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: they don't < 1311975830 98440 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine blind programming is a bit like using ed < 1311975833 444518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's almost as brainfrying, but for different reasons < 1311975838 625505 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any commands to print multiple lines at once < 1311975878 865987 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the good news with my thoughts is that, I think I have a pointer-passing capability model that works across networks with no need to have computer-to-computer communication different from intra-computer communication < 1311975884 413994 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you first < 1311975918 66138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm in the middle of a bunch of things at the moment, also I was half-asleep and can't quite remember < 1311975933 630357 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1311975934 608237 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1311975940 358912 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll wait to tell mine too then < 1311975943 543141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one was that what's possible in the language should match what's possible in the actual real word < 1311975944 890330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*world < 1311975957 482264 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1311975957 737792 :Adaria!~na@74-36-165-190.dr01.crth.il.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK gonna go get food. I'll beback later on. < 1311975961 925150 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1311975976 910392 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing complete languages are impossible in the real world < 1311975980 707974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it's possible that information currently on another machine will be inaccessible, and that another machine might not cooperate if you tell it to do something < 1311975997 488562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the language should be able to understand that concept, in terms of exceptions or via some other method < 1311976009 336147 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-0-27.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1311976046 240566 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, I already had plans for that, but I think my new model makes it easier < 1311976049 225488 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-51.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please, monads, not exceptions. I like locality. :P < 1311976058 58586 :madbr!~k@98.143.212.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1311976062 644644 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: um "monad" means nothing here < 1311976066 828431 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a specific monad might have some meaning < 1311976068 183719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I'm not making assumptions about what the language feature /is/, just that it exists < 1311976073 200025 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of being unable to real world turing complete, I was just reading the bitbitjump talk page. that was crazy. < 1311976073 773478 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.243.211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either, for instance, or ErrorT < 1311976089 796166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: another thing was, that for your capabilities, you don't want to be passing references to objects themselves < 1311976092 600714 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ElliottT < 1311976094 80052 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-231-206.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: "Monad" only makes sense in languages with particular forms of typing. < 1311976096 417148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but references to closures that operate on those objects < 1311976101 877732 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-70-20-34-51.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Monadic error handling. I'd rather be concise and understandable than pedantically correct. :P < 1311976123 436934 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it wasn't understandcable ;_): < 1311976128 764269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you pass a reference to