< 1313884813 420001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, it's not really that grotty, because it's a nice SW/SE/NW/NE < 1313884821 945490 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure if that works at an angle ... hold on, I need to do a little pseudomath here. < 1313884822 199434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just draw a ray outwards then contract it < 1313884845 913618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm half-sceptical of your claim that rotating a WireWorld board that way keeps it working, but I hope it's true because it's an elegant property < 1313884851 580488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it is true, there's no excuse not to do views :P < 1313884862 618826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in-front-of views < 1313884866 490354 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never claimed that rotating a wireworld board that way keeps it working. < 1313884874 960589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Wireworld is symmetrical, right? < 1313884875 150758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes < 1313884875 222790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it symmetrical diagonally? < 1313884875 222954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes. < 1313884882 812059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you unaware of what I mean by a symmetrical CA? < 1313884889 572287 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1313884922 519558 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of its rules are perfectly symmetrical. < 1313884927 294121 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean that the lattice is the same if you distinguish diagonal and orthogonal connections? < 1313884940 929429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then it has to work. < 1313884955 237105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Something can't break just by rotating it if the rules are symmetrical :P < 1313884992 938761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait for Gregor to explain :P < 1313885023 708100 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that you CAN'T rotate a bunch of squares by 45° and still have squares :P < 1313885030 879924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, indeed. < 1313885047 401711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but you can draw a ray outwards expanding at one second per second and then contract < 1313885053 511122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, the diagonal connections cross, which means they're completely different to the orthogonal ones. < 1313885063 5902 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sadly, the square root of 2 is not 1. < 1313885077 171442 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So your cells will be in some crazy quantum superposition of states. < 1313885089 98218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I've become retarded... I'm not seeing it. < 1313885099 772866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yes, the borders aren't proper. < 1313885105 722354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't that just the borders < 1313885120 70516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK fine, how about don't rotate the view :P < 1313885123 33314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1313885127 840423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm an idiot < 1313885135 846693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Of course your view isn't a square if you're looking diagonally < 1313885143 17522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a triangle :P < 1313885152 70858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, no it isn't, but from an "easier-in-CA" point of view...) < 1313885159 453615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow I can't think right now. < 1313885173 448905 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm concluding here is actually that cardinal directions are actually the way to go :P < 1313885199 143982 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe with both "forward" and "shimmy" :P < 1313885204 700363 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm concluding here is that elliott thinking about CAs inevitably leads to confusion for all involved. < 1313885210 812440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But then building diagonal wire is a pain :? < 1313885217 417944 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence shimmy :P < 1313885223 389254 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Shimmy is forward and left/right) < 1313885228 132220 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: FireFly < 1313885248 726368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's so gross :P < 1313885258 405245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Especially since it lets you U-turn faster if you go weird < 1313885267 306283 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1313885273 755218 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shimmy doesn't turn you < 1313885288 502786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shimmy, turn, shimmy, turn < 1313885295 810238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare turn, turn, forwards... hmm ok :P < 1313885308 956784 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah :P < 1313885312 440256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I STILL THINK SHIMMY IS UGLY BUT OK :P < 1313885334 71255 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I really like having your "canonical" direction be unknown, and rotating the map so you just see in your own direction. < 1313885338 718895 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ain't got no compass! < 1313885347 397536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, me too < 1313885361 327996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you sure you can't hack that by presenting your diagonal viewing range as a partly-filled square? >_> < 1313885372 93269 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, but it would have incorrect behavior :P < 1313885409 516658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It would? < 1313885419 440780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the point is that if you do it that way, you can SEE LESS by looking diagonally :P < 1313885422 935361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is awesome. < 1313885427 705163 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1313885429 525076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck, I'm looking diagonally, and therefore mostly blind." < 1313885430 263150 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misunderstood. < 1313885441 613634 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that means you lose some of the generality of look-direction ... < 1313885468 453468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1313885485 997888 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is even more gross than shimmy :P < 1313885489 489885 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp. if I don't call it "shimmy" < 1313885503 22567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shimmy is a good name for it. < 1313885506 488376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So how big is the viewing distance? < 1313885522 548045 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well now that we've done all this shit, I have no bloody idea :P < 1313885525 492367 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :8? < 1313885544 818754 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it needs to be odd. < 1313885553 45079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.... Actually, I don't see why you can't do diagonals. < 1313885558 115958 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sobs* < 1313885566 411437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No but look < 1313885566 753835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1313885566 991563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\ | /. < 1313885567 63755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. \|/ . < 1313885567 340866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.--+--. < 1313885569 266074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. /|\ . < 1313885571 378267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ | \. < 1313885573 215501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1313885585 330484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: When looking in a direction, take all cells with a marked ray, and then include N cells in a square around them < 1313885594 176781 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SQUARE around them! < 1313885599 348650 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE AIN'T NO SQUARE AROUND THEM :P < 1313885601 126271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: When looking in a direction, take all cells with a marked ray, and then include N cells in a square-rotated-appropriately around them < 1313885606 194036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's not resulting in a square >_> < 1313885608 440424 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Draw an array of cells A1 A2 A3...\nB1 B2 B3...\n, then draw the subset that corresponds to any diagonal view within them, as a square. < 1313885609 245953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Umm, yes there is < 1313885611 221813 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then send me that. < 1313885614 326638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : THERE AIN'T NO SQUARE AROUND THEM :P < 1313885615 717691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are cells < 1313885619 345206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So of course there's a square around them :P < 1313885622 104585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not from that orientation >_> < 1313885667 921651 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TAcC <-- see < 1313885682 292073 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The second set is a diagonal view NE from D2) < 1313885721 307895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not sure what your point is there < 1313885728 135277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why couldn't you just send that second square down the wire < 1313885741 459591 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's C2? Where's D3? < 1313885761 615590 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cannot be both a correct representation of the CA as viewed from that orientation, and a square. < 1313885764 863645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right :P < 1313885768 944726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, OK, I'm an idiot. < 1313885794 175508 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywho, cardinal directions are sexy. < 1313885810 336926 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just move like a chess piece (OK, it happens that this particular chess piece doesn't exist...) < 1313885825 451169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should totally write that physics paper by Lifeforms. < 1313885840 272497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although, is it wrong that that it's not a correct representation? Of course you can't expect to see the whole world. < 1313885844 568381 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a chess piece that moves only WASD, it's called a Wazir < 1313885846 618842 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :look it up < 1313885853 202805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be merging it into a world representation after rotating < 1313885855 289711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'll be accurate then < 1313885864 997082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can't simulate the squares ANYWAY < 1313885871 883678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they lack, y'know, everything outside the edges :P < 1313885876 548264 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you should be able to make some guesses. < 1313885881 739784 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even do that. < 1313885884 602981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which you can, as long as you look around more. < 1313885893 742089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1313885894 832683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1313885895 255053 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you happened to start oriented like that. < 1313885901 377281 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd just see that nothing makes any goddamn sense :P < 1313885905 53695 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My electron vanished! < 1313885941 434203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, what if you start out like that, and then rotate three-sixty? < 1313885958 84676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1313885972 991974 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (though I don't want to work it out, bleh) that there would have to be nearby activity to determine your orientation, but either way it's an effload of work. < 1313885979 959491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1313885983 457054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cardinal it is < 1313885986 517675 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesh < 1313885994 771469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm so writing warriors in Haskell, BTW :P < 1313886007 506908 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good! < 1313886050 420808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I do think you should have a switch to turn off all time limits, though < 1313886056 420719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game is much purer that way :P < 1313886066 454830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no warrior should break, because they'll wait for the server to tell them when a new turn is < 1313886079 875312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (The server should wait for an ACK of the new turn from both warriors before starting the counter, I guess...) < 1313886085 427954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And kick everything that doesn't ACK quickly enough, of course :P < 1313886103 143655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess reading from a FIFO or whatever won't be that slow :P < 1313886106 964582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But reading from a socket could be. < 1313886110 491213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess network play would be slow in general < 1313886112 620418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also completely pointless < 1313886115 217043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can just repeat it locally < 1313886136 865845 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with 'take as long as you like' is that the optimal strategy is to take as long as possible < 1313886138 2128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And network play allows for undetectable human intervention anyway :P < 1313886144 866448 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no game will ever finish with perfect play < 1313886145 837599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In five moves turn right 'cuz I said so." < 1313886151 27447 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was going to have the move you want an action to be performed in specified in that action (or some special token for "any turn"), so you don't need to ack as a client. < 1313886153 58758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Yes, I didn't mean to actually run things with the --no-limits flag. < 1313886160 957533 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (And the server would ack moves) < 1313886162 623165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant it's purer, and might also be useful for testing? < 1313886166 421588 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1313886214 260787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> elliott: I was going to have the move you want an action to be performed in specified in that action (or some special token for "any turn"), so you don't need to ack as a client. < 1313886216 150073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1313886244 924627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the client wants to do nothing it should send nothing. < 1313886253 955395 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the client wants to do nothing, it sends nothing. < 1313886261 983887 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if the client sends something too late, it also doesn't do it. < 1313886306 572822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the client sends something too late, it's the next turn. < 1313886311 257452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's the correct behaviour :P < 1313886329 908101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clients just need to listen to the input stream, send whenever their move queue gets full, and then wait until the next turn < 1313886331 148811 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno if I agree, but my point was that if you wanted that behavior, you could specify "any turn" < 1313886347 644988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having clients note which turn it is is kind of gross < 1313886352 227441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Clients just need to listen to the input stream, send whenever their move queue gets full, and then wait until the next turn < 1313886356 71207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be OK for moves to happen late < 1313886369 272544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need one thread to plan, react to input, and decide on moves, and then to push them :P < 1313886432 476697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Plus you can make moves one byte :) < 1313886437 603062 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But what if something appears in your area in that next frame, and you go into reaction mode? < 1313886453 357213 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You won't want your slightly-mistimed previous move to take precedence. < 1313886476 821536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, if you want hard-realtime like that, then have your fucking IO thread notify you of a new turn. < 1313886479 840536 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you also wouldn't want to make a slightly-mistimed previous move ... < 1313886482 639355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have this notification lock the queue. < 1313886491 550047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want that, fine, but it shouldn't be part of the protocol :P < 1313886517 931897 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's NOT part of the protocol, then it's not actually hard real-time by the way :P < 1313886550 359892 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because there is undefined behavior on timeouts) < 1313886555 118160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No?? < 1313886560 748861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Timeout = next move starts, it's taken as "do nothing" < 1313886569 631923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to do nothing, don't send anything. < 1313886572 950053 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Here is the sequence of actions that causes the problem: < 1313886599 748854 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Server sends turn, client does computation, client sends move, server sends next turn, server receives move, server acts on move which was computed on stale data. < 1313886639 292763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Servers always try to read before starting a new move. < 1313886649 81306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved? < 1313886654 491046 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're acting as if IPC is magic. < 1313886656 921687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming you're not doing this over a network because that won't work anyway. < 1313886658 165262 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, atomic. < 1313886667 196370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was assuming something file-esque like a FIFO. < 1313886670 929536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't FIFOs ordered? < 1313886677 274611 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single FIFO is ordered. < 1313886681 943188 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bidirectional communication is two FIFOs. < 1313886693 445182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313886699 355500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's stupid, what's an ordered IPC mechanism < 1313886700 672161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix socket? < 1313886705 790157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that is a Unix socket. < 1313886706 905252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1313886710 398919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't. < 1313886712 834817 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no such thing as bidirectional ordering guarantees. < 1313886715 421410 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't even make sense. < 1313886719 61546 :yourstruly!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1313886742 87830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does for stdio :) < 1313886744 316378 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to have some crazy shared locking mechanism that both processes are aware of, but that means the client could lock out the server, gross. < 1313886747 994306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, console I/O < 1313886748 67036 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, doesn't for stdio. < 1313886749 759237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, console I/O < 1313886768 429149 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Console I/O does not have bidirectional ordering. < 1313886773 745613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1313886776 795086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this shit :P < 1313886803 106507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, fine, moves contain one byte of identifier and are just dropped if they refer to an identifier other than the current turn's :P < 1313886809 453445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just cycle 'em < 1313886823 893075 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exactly my proposal >_< < 1313886827 596513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yep < 1313886845 698484 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH KAY, now that we've got that out of the way :P < 1313886888 741488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, if you don't make the move instructions <>^v I'll cut you. < 1313886897 918191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1313886902 138903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, if you don't make the turn instructions <> I'll cut you. < 1313886906 710501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the move instruction ^ :P < 1313886912 627863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313886916 115806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn instructions should be \/ actually >_> < 1313886919 951875 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why ya gotta ASCII? :P < 1313886925 373003 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What direction is each of those? < 1313886925 773873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge does [] which is totally unsatisfying < 1313886931 692021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: \ is left, / is right, obviously < 1313886937 44993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the only turns, also obviously < 1313886938 211867 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe ( and )? < 1313886954 320729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks even less like looking left or right than \ and / do < 1313886965 299213 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what your metaphor is. < 1313886966 676713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why ya gotta ASCII? :P < 1313886968 322908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuteness < 1313886977 646144 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, fine. < 1313887008 239283 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command format is: {turn byte} {command} < 1313887009 620075 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-byte commands: <^>\/ < 1313887023 682223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot build and destroy :P < 1313887032 598541 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those aren't one-byte commands (?) < 1313887032 853711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit should be X or ! for the damage metaphor < 1313887038 740244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What? < 1313887041 895303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1313887049 851871 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We haven't decided build directionality. < 1313887054 943645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1313887060 664251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the WHOLE POINT of the turtle thing is that it's faster to create a line < 1313887066 261595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess you build behind you and destroy in front of you < 1313887071 432096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You poop wire, in other words < 1313887080 730249 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then build is more of a modifier of move. < 1313887089 668145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not... really? < 1313887095 30822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could build and then turn around and move away instead. < 1313887108 451543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're facing forwards, you build, now there's a wire behind you, you turn to your right, and run away. < 1313887114 5215 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought build-and-move-in-some-direction was a single move. < 1313887119 243687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work. < 1313887125 343304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GUESS < 1313887126 211044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway < 1313887131 352601 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah whoah wait, you're proposing that you build BEHIND you? < 1313887132 622242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to destroy something and build over it you destroy it, U-turn, and then build X-D < 1313887142 153237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, bear with me: because if you build in FRONT of you: < 1313887148 932748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then to build a wire you have to CONSTANTLY TURN THREE-SIXTY < 1313887155 151663 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that you build on TOP of you. < 1313887155 379649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build, threesixty, forwards, repeat < 1313887163 907517 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or build-and-move. < 1313887175 617769 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since building in your own spot yields a bizarre situation ...) < 1313887181 324206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Like TEN HOURS AGO I said that I'm thinking of it as the agents being a cell so that updates make more sense and that you can't move in front of wires. < 1313887187 126584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo nothing is ever on top of you ever :P < 1313887191 625904 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-102.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313887194 861911 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-216-184.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313887194 934330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From my POV) < 1313887196 29336 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the bizarre situation. < 1313887207 169973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I dunno, I kind of like the poop metaphor X-D < 1313887212 4554 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But building behind you is terrible since you can't see there any more. < 1313887214 538422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To build over something: Hit it until it dies, turn around, poop. < 1313887245 865539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was kind of imagining it as a little bug eating wire (destroying) and leaving a trail of wirepoop :P < 1313887252 875401 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm likin' the move-and-build paradigm more and more >_> < 1313887266 860726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you want to be able to build a wire in n ticks? < 1313887267 146196 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, build and move are an atomic action) < 1313887268 501304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For n=length < 1313887273 835111 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my problem with it. < 1313887298 878096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Don't propose that each cell has a "builtness" counter because I will cut you :P < 1313887303 736416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To make it take multiple ticks) < 1313887304 888995 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lawd no. < 1313887305 130065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313887308 266558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess building has to take one tick, then < 1313887313 50287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that applies to building behind you, too < 1313887328 63794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Don't propose that each cell has a "builtness" counter because I will cut you :P < 1313887330 120211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "erection" value :P < 1313887331 808201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK CHEAP JOKE OVER < 1313887345 1280 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing with building behind you is that if you shimmy, your "behind you" location is somewhat ambiguous. < 1313887357 197895 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. building diagonal wires is still weird) < 1313887370 467825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, I was pretending shimmying didn't exist because... because I don't like that. < 1313887389 552560 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better than any alternative I can think of *shrugs* < 1313887402 730403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make diagonal wire-building take longer and fuck you deal with it? :P < 1313887428 49789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, howya gonna show the direction agents are facing on the board? With a zoom it's easy, just pack an arrow into one block a la mcmap < 1313887430 740610 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could make it take √2, that'd be ideal :P < 1313887442 92232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Things CA space is not: < 1313887443 707369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- EUCLIDEAN < 1313887444 213903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- EUCLIDEAN < 1313887444 942163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- EUCLIDEAN < 1313887450 771646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- NOT MANHATTAN IF YOU'RE NOT AN ELECTRON < 1313887461 228815 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO I AM WITH MAKING OF THE JOKESES! < 1313887462 76453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taxicab, whatever :P < 1313887465 716261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OH < 1313887466 219293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1313887468 494319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: BTW, howya gonna show the direction agents are facing on the board? With a zoom it's easy, just pack an arrow into one block a la mcmap < 1313887484 45111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...without a zoom, I suggest just alpha-blending two blocks diagonal from it with [agent colour] to be the tail X-D < 1313887488 159181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOST IMPORTANT PROBLEM DEFINITELY < 1313887507 874527 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly I don't think it's enormously important to show the direction in the actual visible window, since their movement should make that sufficiently clear *shrugs* < 1313887532 11969 :Libster!~Libster@pool-71-191-84-92.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313887553 500200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Unless the WARRIOR (so much cooler than agent) just sits there spinning around and entertaining its retarded self by becoming dizzy. < 1313887563 802207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to do that a lot. < 1313887567 46818 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And if it does, why do we care about its direction? :P < 1313887574 12078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because it'll look funny. < 1313887592 988006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, agents just have to be pink because I can't stop thinking of them as pink... I guess because of mcmap < 1313887629 958397 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to make a color per. < 1313887651 71792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO LAME??? < 1313887654 432901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give them little nametags. The best idea. < 1313887705 279452 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are flags too, remember < 1313887740 112136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, every flag should just be interchangable... everyone defending every flag while trying to get to any flag. < 1313887743 974263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No arguments. < 1313887831 134532 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a complete 360° from the current design of the CTF game :P < 1313887843 842457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm being VERY SERIOUS < 1313887846 716271 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A design which, naturally, you don't know) < 1313887850 527873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually joking but wondering if it might be good :P < 1313887865 514109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Lemme guess... every agent has a flag, starts next to it, has to stop the other agent from destroying it < 1313887865 894066 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's closer to my very original idea, which was to have a sort of resource gathering game. < 1313887875 986089 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not exactly. < 1313887884 468989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What then : < 1313887884 819715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313887944 146835 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll explain it in terms of the CA (roughly): There's a 'base' cell type, which never changes under any circumstances, and has an owner. There's a 'flag' cell type which also has an owner, and turns into a conductor if there are any electrons next to it. If an electron is next to a base or flag, it becomes a flag of the same owner. < 1313887955 997335 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a flag is next to a base of a different owner, then the owner of the flag loses. < 1313887966 626814 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have to actually ferry the flag from the enemy to you. < 1313887976 789606 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't move at lightspeed, so they have a chance to defend. < 1313887978 174057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So simplified, you want to connect the flag to a base with wire? < 1313887988 354203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it doesn't move at lightspeed" <-- So more cell states then? < 1313887996 41351 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1313888003 75782 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It just only moves when an /electron/ touches it. < 1313888009 525119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairnuff < 1313888013 427885 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Making an absolute max of ½ lightspeed. < 1313888034 109848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you have enough of an idea to implement it now :P < 1313888044 931583 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's now quite a bit different than it was a few hours ago X-D < 1313888055 862043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it changed in the last half hour? :P < 1313888061 662143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from that shimmying shit < 1313888068 303362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you should totally hold back on because EWW < 1313888071 605875 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1313888074 279548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with the "build and move" model, FWIW < 1313888075 620439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least < 1313888077 75587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I do < 1313888115 494527 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A bit which I thing I had given up on, but might be worthwhile with the build-and-move model, is that there was a "conductor potentia" cell type, which turned into a conductor when an electron touched it, but didn't conduct that particular electron. < 1313888144 925569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1313888154 161497 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just slows building down a bit *shrugs* < 1313888172 765115 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just a trick to make building slower if it turned out to be too fast relative to destruction. < 1313888173 719355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, we didn't resolve that < 1313888207 333826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think destroying should take... hmm. < 1313888214 496768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Four hits < 1313888223 465940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That way damage is a two bit value :-) < 1313888260 505062 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, and here I figured I'd be drawing an ASCII-art motif for the area in front of you, so who cares how many bits I waste on damage values. < 1313888276 126823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm speaking in terms of elegance, not in terms of protocol. < 1313888282 413750 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1313888296 504624 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :damage time vs build time is something you'll tweak in testing anyway < 1313888301 393688 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1313888306 238165 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can implement something. < 1313888307 431100 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND SHALL < 1313888308 630803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not that 49 is many bytes < 1313888312 236943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or 121 < 1313888319 808604 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR A BAZILLION < 1313888322 45973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No < 1313888329 369352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you want an even number, you want a power of two < 1313888332 158487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want an odd number, you want a prime < 1313888338 711096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the Rule < 1313888350 620687 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Viewbox is 7x7, damage is 4 :P < 1313888368 988984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twenty-three squared is 529 bytes, and half a kilo is a bit much to send, receive and process every zero point zero six < 1313888372 765797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five is too small < 1313888380 859183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So seven, eleven, seventeen or nineteen it is < 1313888401 529636 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Enjoy writing agents in Haskell with no 0-8 btw. < 1313888424 329782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, I've been coding continuously since the Accident :P < 1313888445 999401 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it's capitalized now. < 1313888451 105858 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1313888451 419610 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my point was really just to mock you 8-D < 1313888453 52702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please don't make fun of my disability. < 1313888457 900027 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1313888519 966432 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313888546 110906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW what ASCII chars are you using for the world < 1313888559 114208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's totally irrelevant but :P < 1313888567 146751 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: \x00, \x01, \x02, ... :P < 1313888576 752159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No dude no. No. Dude. You make me sad. Dude. No. < 1313888619 190641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suggest empty: or ., wire: =, head: *, tail: ~ < 1313888624 752122 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably ' ' for nothing, . for wire, @ for actor, + for head, - for tail < 1313888625 334205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :===~*==== < 1313888629 640902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a little worm SO CUTE??? < 1313888642 55198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't deny the worminess. < 1313888646 892787 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a botched enema. < 1313888647 71720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. might be better than = < 1313888657 382153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK no dude ~* is absolutely perfect. < 1313888660 28651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely perfect. < 1313888661 936836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have no arguments. < 1313888665 577372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the perfect electron worm. < 1313888671 931848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: @ for actor is good though. < 1313888672 852599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm < 1313888679 893948 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE, you can't go antirogue. < 1313888684 989032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What about 0-9A-Z for actors? It'd avoid sending more. < 1313888690 507449 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's good. < 1313888693 75515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: AHEM < 1313888698 688135 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except flags have owners too :) < 1313888703 549963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: @ does not mean "another player-species" < 1313888712 528581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: @ means "you, or something with the symbol @ (usually humanoids)" < 1313888724 654352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider playing a gnome in NetHack. < 1313888728 496574 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you claiming that actors aren't humans? That happen to be written in C? < 1313888730 274397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1313888733 236257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D < 1313888757 395985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, hmm... 0-9 for actors, A-J for flags? < 1313888767 115907 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A-J for base, a-j for flags. < 1313888776 463253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313888779 210468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see flags as more important than bases < 1313888782 769096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you want them to be more shouty :-) < 1313888787 177829 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then a-j for bases, A-J for flags *shrugs* < 1313888788 93332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-9 for actors, a-j for base, A-J for flags? < 1313888795 971715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY WE WILL HAVE A PERFECTLY CRAFTED ASCII DISPLAY THAT NOBODY WILL EVER SEE < 1313888812 258878 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, do I separate every row with a \n, WASTING BYTES??? < 1313888815 317666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. < 1313888824 275750 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making the ASCII display beyond useless :P < 1313888829 748751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep :D < 1313888850 661127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Suggested format: [move identifier (not guaranteed to be sequential)][grid][damages as raw bytes] < 1313888863 136176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, you should be able to see which way an actor is turning... < 1313888872 416931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an agent < 1313888874 129707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/actor < 1313888875 432824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/whatever < 1313888878 336543 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking I would only send damages for those which have damages. < 1313888893 332471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That means that the update is not constant-sized. < 1313888897 606455 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1313888915 55504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, it makes things slower for the programs... < 1313888922 37465 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, fair 'nuff. < 1313888925 879227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than just read(..., 243) < 1313888931 559654 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We definitely don't want programs to have to think... < 1313888931 721960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where truncated input basically never happens < 1313888935 509402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1313888941 311458 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, we don't *shrugs* < 1313888942 469243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get what you mean, about the protocol < 1313888955 479108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say damage as ASCII just 'cuz, but then I realised it's nice to be able to just memcpy it < 1313888959 825042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparisons, obviously < 1313889014 508911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Commands: turn left: \, turn right: /, advance: ^, hit: X or !, poop: dunno? < 1313889022 149288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Whereby poop I mean build and move forwards) < 1313889054 275462 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I refuse to deshimmy :P < 1313889060 292605 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these commands are all over the place < 1313889068 86636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was thinking you should add shimmy later... < 1313889087 622431 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Having them compacted into e.g. 0x00-0x10 doesn't actually help anything. < 1313889088 572470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, it's gross to be able to build diagonally but not destroy diagonally, and adding another command to do THAT is insanity. < 1313889097 963984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you should just stick with the orthogonality and accept that we're in Taxicab geometry :P < 1313889109 391668 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's why my thought was that destroy and build are more-or-less modifiers. < 1313889128 83644 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I may be willing to accept cardinal-only :P < 1313889136 329873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure, but that only makes sense if you come from the viewpoint that shimmy makes sense :P < 1313889143 875386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ONLY reason it makes sense is that we were talking about looking diagonally. < 1313889148 86184 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I was thinking keyboard-wise but maybe that doesn't matter?? I'm not exactly sure what you're even doing < 1313889157 800078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WireWorld's rules may be "diagonally symmetrical" but that doesn't actually make sense because it's a field made out of squares :P < 1313889168 166356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you don't type these, it's a programming game < 1313889177 462425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could play as a human, but it'd be really hardcore < 1313889182 311602 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Being diagonally symmetrical is independent of being orthogonally symmetrical ... < 1313889186 407357 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you type help < 1313889203 271367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, yes? < 1313889213 426711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My point is that the only reason shimmying is even on the cards is that electrons travel diagonally < 1313889217 844678 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1313889227 226571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that DOESN'T mean that diagonal movement is reasonable in a logo-graphics model :P < 1313889238 632042 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Keyboard is irrelevant unless you can react to things within 1/15th of a second :P < 1313889246 1138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, I take it that things like invalid builds and the like will just be ignored? < 1313889247 542484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No error codes < 1313889249 16356 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hexagons < 1313889253 531020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't be making such moves anyway < 1313889264 773620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And things like bumping into things when walking, well... you can see the bloody wall right in front of you. < 1313889270 771782 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was intending to ack commands, so you would know if they actually happened within the turn. < 1313889279 629910 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ack could be "OK" vs "too late" vs "invalid" < 1313889292 807334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wait, there are no invalid digs now < 1313889295 752598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1313889297 44665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wait, there are no invalid builds now < 1313889304 674115 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1313889304 887504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you have to stand on the square your wire appears on < 1313889317 829213 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Errr, what if another agent moves there :) < 1313889319 965684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wrt too late, agents can check that themselves by comparing the world-state I think < 1313889321 434754 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY ATOMICITY < 1313889325 980697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be edge-cases where someone cancels out what you do identically < 1313889333 21389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Agents can't walk into agents < 1313889335 382485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like they can't walk into wires < 1313889336 777261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or electroncs < 1313889337 913519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :electrons < 1313889339 301104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or anything but space < 1313889347 995614 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1313889357 663321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, that build fails. < 1313889357 767338 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there are still invalid hits. < 1313889373 641705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but if they try and hit that, they're either like, genetic based... or broken >_> < 1313889383 541896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "genetic", then "nothing happened" is the right thing to learn, if broken, well fuck 'em < 1313889414 661404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But yeah, I think that a properly-written agent doesn't really have to worry about its turn going through... < 1313889421 170301 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, whether you like it or not, I'm acking everything. Neener neener neener. < 1313889434 740921 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Err, acking all client commands, that is) < 1313889434 931968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The time it takes to react to the ack makes it worthless < 1313889439 567506 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't *shrugs* < 1313889439 810095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to cancel your current decision-making process < 1313889445 777761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then there's no reason to ack :P < 1313889453 874620 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe not for YOU. < 1313889468 784575 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe if I'm getting a bunch of ack-too-lates, I'd like to switch to a faster strategy. < 1313889485 271673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fair enough... but you don't want a dynamic-length response. < 1313889489 507145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can only ack one per tick :P < 1313889495 34792 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't want to determine that by "I moved forward in a totally-empty field and nothing appears to have happened" < 1313889502 612681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And invalid moves should ack as "received" < 1313889504 860448 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "I build-and-moved in a totally empty field and nothing appeared to happen" < 1313889506 764069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just do nothing < 1313889524 255410 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one move per tick is valid anyway, of course I can only ack one. < 1313889532 244645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[zero or one][the identifier it was sent with][new identifier][grid][damages] < 1313889536 879769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, but it could receive two because of lag... < 1313889559 423068 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH, I see what you're saying. < 1313889568 332192 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want literally every message from the server to be of a fixed length. < 1313889569 121662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But w/e, just ack one, if you're that lagged you're fucked anyway < 1313889573 854303 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, only one message per tick. < 1313889580 754170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The only messages are updates and acks, so... yes? < 1313889594 566614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no compelling reason not to unify those since acks are of questionable usability anyway < 1313889602 528548 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only to you. < 1313889608 691224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let me put it this way: < 1313889615 770792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple acks per tick is of VERY questionable usability. < 1313889626 573068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And breaks the simple "just read with constant size" client end. < 1313889634 419605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to do some kind of buffering. < 1313889648 826194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, I'd suggest eleven or seventeen viewfield, seven is a bit small... < 1313889650 615056 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, wait, since you can only validly send one move per turn ANYWAY, there's no need for multiple acks per tick ever. < 1313889683 626957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you just un-realise? < 1313889686 407941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Yes, but it could receive two because of lag... < 1313889686 574450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : OH, I see what you're saying. < 1313889688 772266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait < 1313889692 512050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You saw what I was saying about a different thing < 1313889693 689991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Yes, but it could receive two because of lag... < 1313889695 81823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I repeat that then < 1313889697 265374 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one is lagged, it's already been acked negative. < 1313889716 652824 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you specify the turn the move is intended for in the move. < 1313889721 795985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Client receives two server updates in quick succession because of lag, hastily responds to both. < 1313889729 42897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server reads. Server gets two commands. < 1313889736 224664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server can only say "hey, too late" to one. < 1313889738 269474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Both of them were late.>) < 1313889752 905768 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The server's ALREADY said "hey, too late" to both. < 1313889760 865669 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was part of its updates. < 1313889764 242917 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every update includes an ack. < 1313889768 589151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1313889769 811421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1313889776 775623 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really an ack anymore if you're acking nothingness, but :P < 1313889785 241202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you enforce sequentiality of identifiers, then you can ack with one byte < 1313889792 403598 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1313889796 410262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good < 1313889810 732109 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313889820 121035 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, back to building ... < 1313889820 380578 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey..i asked myself y not all the time < 1313889828 659834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Link me to the hg repo btw? < 1313889874 346556 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/ < 1313889924 211512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I blinked when a bitbucket page failed to materialised :P < 1313889989 425362 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some stuff is out of date there though w.r.t. things I realized shouldn't have been there, and new changes. < 1313890086 45814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So what IPC mechanism you using < 1313890092 599189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please make it be something that looks like stdio to the program :P < 1313890106 112959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is the playfield a torus or infinite? < 1313890115 452373 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Torus. < 1313890118 816541 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite = infinite pain. < 1313890131 368895 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to use pipes, so stdio to the program, yes. < 1313890164 744382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: = infinite pain? < 1313890171 790786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you speaking from a C implementation POV, please just say no. < 1313890196 148632 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm speaking from a computation complexity point of view. < 1313890206 5696 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, my plain extended, I now have more work < 1313890227 949700 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wanted to fuck up the server, you could just move infinitely in one direction pooping stable circuits. < 1313890254 305889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so glad that pooping is now our official terminology :P < 1313890258 423814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GLAD. < 1313890268 281903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plane not plain btw :P < 1313890274 170161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is the field just as big as what you linked me? < 1313890278 202394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems pretty tiny < 1313890284 532307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like BF Joust where smaller = better strategy, I don't think < 1313890286 825345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it is < 1313890297 198196 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was just an arbitrarily chosen size. < 1313890305 406886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fairy nuff. < 1313890309 234452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nuff is like cocaine but better.) < 1313890312 983948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Only fairies have it.) < 1313890320 5722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Therefore it means "good".) < 1313890328 833454 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just testing out substrate generation *shrugs* < 1313890343 793309 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313890361 949216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, that sets off happy bells in my head that say "WORLD GENERATION!!!!" < 1313890366 443268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you made a maze????? < 1313890376 7428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With dead-end electron rings instead of exits < 1313890406 300721 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite happy with my substrate as-is :P < 1313890418 949430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's called EXPERIMENTATION :P < 1313890427 861495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different warriors for different substrate algorithms < 1313890436 992408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, what ASCII value is pooping? < 1313890469 237672 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: None? Doesn't need one ... < 1313890490 924012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's... a command... < 1313890493 948161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes it does............ < 1313890501 633096 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :&? *? ~? < 1313890515 651644 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+? < 1313890520 318483 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHOHOH < 1313890521 521545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is pretty good because your tail is ~ (BECAUSE I SAY SO) < 1313890522 399385 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command :P < 1313890528 874411 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm writing the CA right now :P < 1313890529 695174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1313890533 208502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electron tails are ~ < 1313890548 566135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Having fun with agents being a part of the field? :-) < 1313890549 110306 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout ... b :P < 1313890551 306375 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "build" < 1313890555 859486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that hard since you don't literally encode a state transition < 1313890558 660080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, usually you don't < 1313890560 580189 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :d as in defecate < 1313890563 889379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Instead using ifs and the like) < 1313890565 278280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You know this) < 1313890574 159910 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people have tails too < 1313890574 492674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NO IT MUST LOOK LIKE A LITTLE PICTURE < 1313890591 187188 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: 'd' is already damage/destroy. < 1313890593 73283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How about @, it looks like one of those fake plastic dog poops you can buy < 1313890595 964947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X_X < 1313890598 154212 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I'm trying to piss of elliott here. < 1313890600 857064 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*off < 1313890603 610821 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't type today < 1313890610 115484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I do not like you :| < 1313890659 338602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Will you accept patches that make the commands and CA characters totally awesome if I get them in before any warriors are written that weren't written for the purpose of ensuring I can't write that patch :P < 1313890667 307650 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y do u care now? just do not spread all these magic values all around your code, so you can change it later < 1313890679 602199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: It's part of the protocol... magic values are the name of the game. < 1313890683 976972 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1313890697 348152 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I won't accept any patches before I get the damned thing to work at all :P < 1313890812 496959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm... maybe destroying SHOULD take only one tick. < 1313890833 767022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: After all, if someone is right behind you, chasing you, in one direction, shouldn't they be able to destroy your wire at the same speed yer poopin'? < 1313890834 537573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact < 1313890835 799149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313890842 173676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Destroying should move you into where the wire was < 1313890844 993346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it's dual to pooping < 1313890856 609834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no < 1313890859 807043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's stupid if it takes more than one tick < 1313890862 488364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DISREGARD ALL THE ABOVE < 1313890869 499197 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, also if two people are both destroying the same cell. < 1313890895 809484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They should merge. Each tick, it should swap whether one or the other's turn takes effect. < 1313890908 555814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the best idea and if you disagree with it, you are wrong, both in this matter, and as a person. < 1313890920 76760 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1313890936 639903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LITERAL BEST IDEA. BEST CHIMERAS. < 1313890995 265575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm, the timing code will be quite subtle in a bot < 1313890997 662856 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you making?????????????????????????????????? < 1313891010 334482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, obviously you can't just arbitrarily break the machine code :P < 1313891012 610749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it has to be at some barrier < 1313891017 525874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. reading or writing state < 1313891027 382338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you basically just need yield()s < 1313891031 390804 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you making???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1313891041 948607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define YIELD if (volatile_thing) return < 1313891049 275759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A game, stop using tons of question marks that's my thing < 1313891054 711402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A programming game < 1313891223 589021 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another game to make is one that you have to pick up all of the balls but you cannot carry all of them because the different color balls have different mass so it makes it difficult to win < 1313891267 668627 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :game where you flip a coin but it's really really big < 1313891267 917735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should replace the whole game with that. < 1313891309 555902 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Make that game too. < 1313891327 437408 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: But I think your idea is a bit simple < 1313891543 124397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote game where you flip a coin but it's really really big < 1313891547 763725 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :610) game where you flip a coin but it's really really big < 1313891584 317009 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313891613 269950 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lil bit out of context isnt it? ..where can i read the quotes? < 1313891688 663177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of them are out of context, they like to do it like that < 1313891731 858545 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :operation mindfuck still undone < 1313891768 392307 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :work in progress < 1313891772 359105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: < 1313891774 75889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes < 1313891776 553461 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30030 < 1313891781 511558 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1313891795 189089 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thx < 1313891874 880092 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have successfully made something hideously broken. < 1313891902 397002 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, it only doesn't crash if I set a hardware watchpoint on the variable that causes the crash. < 1313891977 136300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What. < 1313891982 29425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How about not using C\ < 1313892003 570185 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :C: THE BEST LANGUAGE THERE IS FOR ALL PORPOISES EVER < 1313892113 93290 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is not bad. But I don't think it is the best language there is for all porpoises ever, or the best language for all purposes ever. There are a lot of programming languages. But use C if that is what you want to use in this case. < 1313892162 82197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What did you use before you used C for everything < 1313892219 142855 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: C. < 1313892231 621217 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313892238 108636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Before that < 1313892238 869204 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :D, before that Java, before that VB. < 1313892244 570297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, D < 1313892247 479055 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sobs to admit that last one.
< 1313892247 882101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have really shitty taste in languages < 1313892255 540475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But you don't sob to admit Java? < 1313892263 514908 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was forced :P < 1313892317 296614 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't crash while debugging? < 1313892338 95016 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used a lot of programming languages. Sometimes I still do. < 1313892347 682618 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313892365 193036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you using pthreads < 1313892370 2842 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: It doesn't crash while debugging, but ONLY if I set a watchpoint. < 1313892372 172760 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heww no. < 1313892413 811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What ARE you using < 1313892419 632935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can helpfully tell you not to use it < 1313892432 612405 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing interesting, that's the thing. < 1313892441 243081 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no smell to chase. < 1313892456 237923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you using... for loops? < 1313892457 325368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Avoid those. < 1313892461 944798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is it in SDL-related code mayhaps? < 1313892470 549010 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SDL hasn't even started yet. < 1313892476 932475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For loops? < 1313892507 198884 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've got plenty, but the only active one is for (d = 0; d < tod; d++) < 1313892526 566975 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Client Quit < 1313892526 730532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suggest avoiding for loops, they might crash your program. Hope this helps. < 1313892527 450142 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why to avoid those? < 1313892544 167328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ENTIRELY possible for a program in a for loop to crash. Think about it. < 1313892558 359110 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything can crash your program if you program it incorrectly. That is why you have to be careful. < 1313892563 256748 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) p world->w < 1313892563 393555 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$5 = 97 < 1313892563 466026 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) p world->h < 1313892563 538464 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$6 = 1627390102 < 1313892564 668402 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha NO < 1313892572 513360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good constants < 1313892576 304612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :World should be square btw < 1313892589 883919 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than a 97x1627390102 wtfagon. < 1313892591 931877 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use foreach instead? < 1313892608 472868 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if possible < 1313892610 8505 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no foreach in C, you have to make up a macro to do foreach in C. < 1313892628 59490 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it can be done and is useful in some programs to do so. < 1313892699 220689 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRRRGH < 1313892705 708273 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN - YOU - C - MODULO - OPERATION < 1313892706 399466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat < 1313892712 989229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction < 1313892715 767312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you C < 1313892741 157383 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, works now :P < 1313892810 935508 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", (-1) % 5 < 1313892812 496049 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err < 1313892813 950540 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", (-1) % 5); < 1313892814 909257 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1313892831 555902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is faste < 1313892837 353229 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1313892842 829272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", (-1) % 5); < 1313892845 495812 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-1 < 1313892846 13708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313892848 923399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: now it worke < 1313892866 584104 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that is the WRONG ANSWER >_< < 1313892904 545774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: C does what it wants mofo < 1313892906 814876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell offers both ;D < 1313892911 442880 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1313892913 238085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(div and mod and quot and rem) < 1313892916 553609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or divMod and quotRem) < 1313892944 532783 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: I can say with 100% certainty that anyone who has ever said that (-1) % 5 is any value other than 4 is a terrible person. < 1313892965 222986 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: ack# < 1313892966 115454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1 `div` 5 < 1313892966 751983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1313892969 58667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1 `quot` 5 < 1313892969 748853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1313892972 437447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1313892972 877838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1313892975 659190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1 `mod` 5 < 1313892976 278659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1313892977 406641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -1 `rem` 5 < 1313892978 13368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1313892981 806727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oops :P < 1313892991 512915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> divMod (-1) 5 < 1313892992 424801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-1,4) < 1313892993 833166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem (-1) 5 < 1313892994 87271 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wtf :P < 1313892994 422590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0,-1) < 1313893002 372494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Operator precedence I think >_> < 1313893002 838067 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, mod and divMod don't agree < 1313893004 623420 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1313893008 815666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) `div` 5 < 1313893009 279744 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-(1 mod 5)? < 1313893009 400172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1313893010 693517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) `quot` 5 < 1313893011 349827 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1313893015 426972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1313893016 599132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) `rem` 5 < 1313893017 225655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1313893021 398102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What >_> < 1313893022 456312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1313893026 99312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) `mod` 5 < 1313893026 762792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1313893028 247244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: FINALLY :P < 1313893035 222122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- really needs to be part of the number literal syntax. < 1313893051 573621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one of Haskell's major warts, "lol - is the only unary operator and also this means that you have to parenthesise negative literals always" < 1313893066 136557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it means that you can't do (- 9) to partially apply (-) with a section < 1313893068 110198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need (subtract 9) < 1313893069 623353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross < 1313893169 6622 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eew, really? < 1313893187 185889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No that was a total lie. < 1313893194 637188 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1313893255 170674 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1313893270 89872 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I hate - it's awful < 1313893365 66142 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313893419 435659 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANOTHER thunderstorm? < 1313893421 627285 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, Indiana. < 1313893423 153104 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1313893992 771075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1313894006 641325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indiana: Literally Texas. < 1313894391 86843 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, there is like a 0% chance that this viewport code is correct :P < 1313894687 276193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that (-1) % 5 == -1 is no good, I agree that it should be 4 < 1313894708 993499 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: See! Proof positive. < 1313894724 416306 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there two kinds of modulus anyway, it's annoying < 1313894825 831105 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the negative kind is useful in some cases, but in general the positive kind (that is, without negative results) is better < 1313894977 481616 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) `mod` -5 < 1313894978 130596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1313894978 202414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix `GHC.Real.mod' [infixl 7] and pref... < 1313894995 348129 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) `mod` (-5) < 1313894995 997089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1 < 1313895176 328511 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1) `mod` (-5) < 1313895176 957822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -4 < 1313895558 931935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it work yet < 1313895564 50277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why are there two kinds of modulus anyway, it's annoying < 1313895565 958914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because mathematics < 1313895577 793352 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm adding agents. < 1313895591 66239 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, I'm seeing that SDL doesn't seem to be able to select over FDs >_< < 1313895612 166146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: select() does that. < 1313895620 642908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why'd you need SDL to < 1313895620 820896 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: select() doesn't select over SDL actions. < 1313895627 406657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SDL... actions? < 1313895629 86772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean events? < 1313895642 65735 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as "lol your window went away", "I need a repaint", or "somebody just closed the window" < 1313895645 234199 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes yes < 1313895653 375703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only tells you to repaint when it's restored or whatever < 1313895659 59332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably want your own event loop < 1313895681 796882 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But under that I need /something/ < 1313895686 87562 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems that I have no something. < 1313895690 749692 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat. < 1313895691 291677 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use select() or SDL >_< < 1313895709 529387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thread handles all events, then does a bunch of SDL_GetTicks and SDL_Delay so that you're on time for drawing the next frame, then you draw a frame, save the current time (so you know when the next frame is), and repeat < 1313895713 347512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thread can select() and handle the rest. < 1313895717 191890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically impossible to avoid threads using SDL. < 1313895717 623253 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (running) { while (SDL_PollEvent(&event)) { switch (event.type) { ... } } } < 1313895724 840331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: elliott: Also, I'm seeing that SDL doesn't seem to be able to select over FDs >_< < 1313895731 535699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Also, lolniceandslow < 1313895734 668421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want WaitEvent if you're doing that < 1313895740 792967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't want to do that, you want to use PollEvent and sleep yourself :P < 1313895764 791418 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313895773 286297 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, didn't mean to write a busy loop there, but don't care. < 1313895781 911771 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It still doesn't help. < 1313895785 348198 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point is, variable frame rate. < 1313895788 917129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just told you how to do it :P < 1313895788 998479 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I know how to write a simple SDL event loop, that doesn't help me. < 1313895791 789870 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't, but it is now. < 1313895796 693901 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I REFUSE TO THREADS >_< < 1313895797 107484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm getting pretty good at non-simple SDL event loops :P < 1313895801 533475 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need the gametime to be passed < 1313895801 699184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have literally no choice. < 1313895805 912737 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1313895837 556723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You need that anyway, because you need to sleep() < 1313895841 780754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To let the turn time pass < 1313895855 349286 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SDL has that. < 1313895858 766984 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has timers. < 1313895876 254923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You... don't want to rely on SDL for that >_. < 1313895877 201038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1313895894 232444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :90s library + your critical loop = woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1313895903 610173 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're being stupid. < 1313895913 891965 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This problem doesn't exist. < 1313895925 671369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sounds like you have a problem from all your whining :P < 1313895929 766449 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The times involved are not astronomical or astronomically or small. < 1313895935 945814 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The timing problem, not the FDs problem. < 1313895936 52253 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL_AddTimer is good enough for many purposes. I just prefer to avoid it. < 1313895943 244816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't put SDL_PollEvent into my main event loop. < 1313895945 77957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But w/e. < 1313895965 36348 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1313895969 332379 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO SDL_WAITEVENT < 1313895969 872636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You do realise that you are going to have to give in and use threads, right? < 1313895980 876640 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I already am, but the timing is totally unrelated to that. < 1313895985 223531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1313895985 894011 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have the timing infrastructure. < 1313896002 26400 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem? < 1313896004 886366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have I mentioned that you're going to have to use SDL_PollEvent, not WaitEvent :P < 1313896011 319704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313896014 782974 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I won't. < 1313896016 18910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose your world thread could create a user event < 1313896020 332855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so grosse though < 1313896031 305014 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SDL and CA parts are /DONE/. < 1313896035 275211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I take it that's what you're doing < 1313896036 282315 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I've had more problems with that than it solved. < 1313896044 784436 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using user events. < 1313896057 129728 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oy vey < 1313896059 73000 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the timer thread, that is. < 1313896063 765358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm asking a simple question, disregard evincar :P < 1313896083 106338 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, that's what I'm doing. All I need is a big lock to make sure the CA and agents don't step on each other. < 1313896098 61726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The CA evolves independently of the agents??? < 1313896104 785969 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, that's my point. < 1313896116 650839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why can't you just do ca_tick() after you get all the moves in and apply them < 1313896123 451100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a purely sequential thing < 1313896129 822062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All SDL has to do is turn the CA state into pixels < 1313896130 99504 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have to display that shit :P < 1313896137 886813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do that in the SDL thread < 1313896150 445543 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. i thought we're talking bout the draw() not the update() < 1313896155 3843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for loop + p->pixels = done? < 1313896157 737152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you need a lock at all < 1313896158 451679 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'mma keep right on doing this how I'm doing it, because your advice is unhelpful :P < 1313896167 647163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just want to know why you need a lock < 1313896174 613402 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-102.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1313896181 684805 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-196.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313896186 782737 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose I don't need to guarantee I draw one consistent state to the screen, but I'd like to. < 1313896209 482678 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote for buffering. < 1313896211 184976 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you check collisions in the draw() part? < 1313896215 797289 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1313896219 101049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If the CA updates, I'd like it to update as quickly as possible :P < 1313896229 985974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: evincar: I take it you have no actual idea what we're doing at all. < 1313896234 759949 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And what the hell does that have to do with anything? < 1313896243 381055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It was a joke re elliott: I suppose I don't need to guarantee I draw one consistent state to the screen, but I'd like to. < 1313896245 588564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But hey, hashlife does it < 1313896252 344029 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1313896261 957846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you want to be as FAST AS HASHLIFE??? < 1313896265 498201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABANDON YOUR LOCKS < 1313896284 997525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait. Waitasecond. Waitasecondamo. You use a user event to tell the SDL thread to draw, so the lock doesn't have to exist from SDL's perspective. < 1313896289 165875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can lock before sending off the event. < 1313896291 419671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, SDL has to unlock it, < 1313896292 199802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1313896298 679629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you definitely want to lock before sending the event :P < 1313896304 214876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, or do you < 1313896306 570813 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is my design: < 1313896325 722444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: With a big enough world, locking could cause the time guarantees to be fail to met. < 1313896331 45413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess the time guarantees only matter while waiting for a turn. < 1313896331 329153 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thread { while (select()) { BIG LOCK { everything } } } another thread { while (SDL_Bullshot()) { BIG LOCK { everything } } } < 1313896345 699256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Beep, by "another thread" you mean "the main thread". < 1313896350 383559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot call SDL threads from outside the main thread. < 1313896351 633565 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah :P < 1313896354 212647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/threads/calls/ < 1313896379 375803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyway, I'd just draw without any lock because of aforementioned speed paranoia... < 1313896387 53270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the fact that it really doesn't matter if it updates half way :P < 1313896406 211917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it'll draw again in like 0.06 seconds < 1313896411 436051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could have repeated bad luck, so w/e < 1313896435 212402 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i take it.. you have no idea bout game programming patterns < 1313896456 17215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Wow, you're a jerk. Especially because Gregor isn't developing an interactive game < 1313896475 2495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are no collisions to detect outside of the totally separate agent handling. < 1313896585 219916 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I need is a big lock to make sure the CA and agents don't step on each other. <-- collisions? < 1313896596 394404 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry... < 1313896599 621121 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1313896610 340837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Step on in the programming sense. < 1313896653 683338 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'mma let you two duke this out since I find the whole conversation 115% uninteresting. < 1313896664 694727 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's even happening < 1313896671 934045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is repeatedly correcting someone even "duking" < 1313896687 62132 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Everybody hates each other, and this umbrella works wonders for murdering. < 1313896760 116808 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is anything not stupid happening < 1313896791 277546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Gregor is writing a game that is good apart from not using my ca < 1313896821 899766 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it using a bad ca < 1313896948 213204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wireworld so it could be worse???? < 1313896951 864450 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your ca even usable yet < 1313896970 797389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I don't know maybe soon??? < 1313897095 921602 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like we've had this conversation before, and recently. < 1313897105 71333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1313897136 882052 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT I FEEL < 1313897140 405906 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: and how's your language < 1313897151 517152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad hth < 1313897169 883900 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Been thinking about how best to implement the non-bootstrapped version in a way that doesn't bite me later. < 1313897242 272923 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean you've finished designing the language itself, or at least enough to consider implementation, or is this this problem not specific to or dependent upon the design of your language? < 1313897244 327285 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also what target language to use, which I suppose could be C++, if only as an alternative to C. < 1313897259 434060 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++? < 1313897264 544916 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why c++ < 1313897276 601110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313897284 314284 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1313897300 77447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy hi < 1313897302 687278 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiles natively, is C with some other stuff I don't want to automate. < 1313897315 836059 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what < 1313897318 635639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im literally going to suffocate myself on a pillow bye < 1313897325 456635 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry i was bored < 1313897332 777141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok back < 1313897340 685077 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you'd like to recommend a different target language, be my guest. < 1313897357 914009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything but C++?? < 1313897360 949089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like say C?? < 1313897361 114448 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your opinion is assuredly worth something. < 1313897408 652896 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about c++ is attractive < 1313897411 64482 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :over, say, c < 1313897424 431270 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so my language targets C. And now I have to write scads more code, and I can't rely on automatic destruction or smart pointers or existing collections. < 1313897436 696612 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to *work* first. < 1313897442 78074 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can add other targets later. < 1313897479 642039 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is less about c being good and more about c++ being bad < 1313897496 728706 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :target haskell $$$$$$$ < 1313897531 394796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Okay, so my language targets C. And now I have to write scads more code, and I can't rely on automatic destruction or smart pointers or existing collections. < 1313897533 316030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used C? < 1313897544 224362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also do you know what the boehm gc is < 1313897548 914469 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, loads. < 1313897557 60245 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, now I have an outside dependency. < 1313897594 634192 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is the source a GC'd language?) < 1313897628 141084 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: presumably, else hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah < 1313897639 626085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: outside epdenency < 1313897646 581981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a list of language implementations that depend on boehm gc < 1313897647 650488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- everything < 1313897653 914118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres a list of other things that depend on boehm < 1313897654 900772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- everything < 1313897658 706163 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not entirely sure it needs to be, being that it's stack-based. < 1313897666 809398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even gcc uses boehm for chrisssakes < 1313897675 369670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, using a stack absolves you of all memory management < 1313897685 416232 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone has to take the ring back to mordor < 1313897771 898271 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, using a stack just makes memory management absurdly straightforward. < 1313897783 606611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313897784 88391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1313897785 740055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you serious < 1313897798 440963 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll target C, whatever. < 1313897800 112350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats true if and only if you cant push nontrivial structures to the stack < 1313897906 860926 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all references anyway. So don't I just have to deal with counting? < 1313897917 62097 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can't I throw that responsibility to the garbage collector if I'm feeling lazy? < 1313897938 315193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no cyclic structures? sweet < 1313897940 158649 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still not convinced of the merits of GC over deterministic destruction.
< 1313897955 703799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that gc works in the general case and "deterministic" methods don't < 1313897962 281967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gc can be perfectly deterministic) < 1313897995 949654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also use GGGGC if you want precise GC. < 1313898110 709868 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: good luck designing a good language (thumbs up) < 1313898134 867798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How's it go :P < 1313898153 212241 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Oh, I'll use a collector, and I'll end up the happier for it. < 1313898292 485015 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It continues to go :P < 1313898402 27756 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION poops away
< 1313898404 457414 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1313898417 880324 :hagb4rd!4d0b6481@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.100.129 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1313898654 793090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1313898885 442924 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... what commands are left for actors other than move, build, destroy? < 1313898888 378627 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also have the programming language that targets LLVM, it has some things related to garbage collection too < 1313898893 826272 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, and turn of course :P < 1313898933 446273 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1313898934 738473 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, LLVM's GC is lolterrible. < 1313898958 817385 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then fix it < 1313899005 53818 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, apparently I can't decide if they're agents or actors. < 1313899042 375680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Poop < 1313899047 233053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not build, poop < 1313899062 887197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Advance, poop, hit, turn left, turn right, these are the One True Names. < 1313899126 557202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But yeah, those are all :P < 1313899277 726179 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-156.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313899606 425112 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was going to mention LLVM, but I assumed I'd get laughed at. < 1313899621 676911 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: I think LLVM is good in general. < 1313899622 33655 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, MASSIVE DELAY. < 1313899643 679238 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly seems to be, but I honestly don't know enough about it to feel comfortable targeting it. < 1313899653 569416 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when I want to get something done quickly that I can later refine. < 1313899752 500121 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing the program for using Glk with Haskell. < 1313899937 392851 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now witnessing what atrocious Python code looks like < 1313899953 570877 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't thnk this person's written in Python or any other computer language before < 1313899965 965894 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program is it? < 1313899973 579988 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to do with YouTube stuff < 1313900018 976332 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posted links in the minecraft channel < 1313900127 201807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how, I can, in Haskell, to reference something in another module which I cannot import because it does not exist? But I do know the types of the other things I am accessing. < 1313900221 181566 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now it all works except that it doesn't actually do anything. < 1313900250 254531 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically glkInit :: String; glkMain :: Glk (); < 1313900295 157032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sweet. < 1313900308 221315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Uhh, that doesn't make much sense. Do you want to use the FFI? < 1313900325 279416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If the Glk is the Glk I know, though, I don't see why it needs its own monad; all the functions should just return in IO. < 1313900333 261230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* glk_main() is the top-level function which you define. The Glk library < 1313900333 333022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : calls it. */ < 1313900333 333215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern void glk_main(void); < 1313900339 979421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's problematic. < 1313900352 899184 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is the reason. < 1313900373 353043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to write a C file defining glk_main() that uses the FFI to call a Haskell function named glkMain. < 1313900376 239340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then everyone has to link with that. < 1313900383 323764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... hmm. < 1313900390 334698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have to mark it as exported to the FFI in the source file anyway. < 1313900487 110130 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, glkInit and glkMain are values used by the library program I am making, and they need to use that in the functions which C calls. It also does various other things such as ensure it is safe codes unlike C codes, such as the C code keeping opaque objects registry and dispatching Glk calls, and the Haskell code converting the types between C types and Haskell types. < 1313900500 805968 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-156.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313900513 665050 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means I need to import things that do not exist. < 1313900525 574372 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OMG so slow D-8 < 1313900543 91839 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user program will also import this program too, although in that case everything is exist already. < 1313900581 436231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What part is slow? < 1313900592 668307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You just "import" them by referencing them from C. < 1313900622 257400 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK. How do I reference them from C, then? They are not C types! < 1313900683 353660 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Donno yet. < 1313900859 719374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can export things with the FFI < 1313900872 131538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eforeign export ccall foo :: Int -> IO Int < 1313900872 432399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :: Int -> IO Int < 1313900872 504711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo n = return (length (f n)) < 1313900874 373698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Foo_stub.h will contain something like this: < 1313900874 539271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "HsFFI.h" < 1313900874 611611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern HsInt foo(HsInt a0); < 1313900875 478217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Foo_stub.c contains the compiler-generated definition of foo(). To invoke foo() from C, just #include "Foo_stub.h" and call foo(). < 1313900883 478641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.2/html/users_guide/ffi-ghc.html < 1313900890 572353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you also want to look at 8.2.1.1. Using your own main() < 1313900891 668477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the same page < 1313900999 609004 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have looked at 8.2.1.1 already < 1313901008 236408 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look again < 1313901168 592492 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose one idea, which can make it add the necessary exports if needed, as well as other things if needed, is to use Template Haskell. < 1313901232 46224 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does "foreign export" require the type even if it is already specified in the program? < 1313901421 413602 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So it's POSSIBLE ... just POSSIBLE that even with the simplest possible client you can't keep up :P < 1313901512 667781 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-167-226.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1313901532 417485 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, never mind, seems to be a different bug >_> < 1313901548 517838 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now ghci won't load the program if it has foreign export < 1313901591 512438 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heh, I was always expecting the wrong timestamp X-P < 1313901682 902937 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, works 8-D < 1313901722 372573 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pull for AGENTS < 1313901892 454163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I never downloaded < 1313901893 327943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relink < 1313901970 429074 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/ < 1313902008 891241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So will you accept a patch that fixes your letters :P < 1313902024 766179 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY CHARACTERS ARE PERFECTION < 1313902121 739250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sprunge.us/HNjb < 1313902147 528375 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is {-# SOURCE #-} which will do allowing importing non-existing modules < 1313902153 49378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I will accept keeping the name build rather than poop :P < 1313902155 367788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. < 1313902167 516766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You _cannot reference glkMain in that way from Haskell code_. < 1313902170 851698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with the FFI you can refer to it. < 1313902247 643609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I will be happy to test it once those completely-vital breaking changes are through :P < 1313902266 77387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lol at your argument parsing "library" < 1313902317 73078 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? It says you can use that to compile mutually recursive modules. But I don't know how you can refer to it with FFI since glkInit and glkMain are not C types. < 1313902352 353445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: By exporting them with "foreign export" from the Haskell file. < 1313902366 523983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must simply do extern void glkMain(...); from your C file. < 1313902374 88146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And compile that to an object file which must be linked with the program using GHC. < 1313902391 681893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 222 if ((buf = SDL_SetVideoMode(w*z, h*z, 32, SDL_HWSURFACE|SDL_DOUBLEBUF)) == NULL) SDLERR; < 1313902400 301870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You probably don't want HWSURFACE. < 1313902409 13773 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it says "foreign export" still needs to be C types. I have two things neither of whcih are C types < 1313902424 219718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: IO () is exported just as IO () < 1313902435 817042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For one, your code will probably break with an HWSURFACE, since you don't lock/unlock it < 1313902443 124339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For two, poking at pixels with an hwsurface is almost definitely going to be slow < 1313902488 662911 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-206-196.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1313902490 547448 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313902509 310361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suspect Gregor isn't actually here :P < 1313902535 409773 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ignoring you. < 1313902571 778913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My advice about HWSURFACEs is hardly irrelevant... especially since the only time you're going to get one is fullscreened anyway. < 1313902611 893939 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never claimed that anything you said was irrelevant, just that I'm ignoring you :P < 1313902615 890277 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already did HW -> SW :P < 1313902659 825492 :CakeProphet!~adam@h69-130-146-120.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313902659 898094 :CakeProphet!~adam@h69-130-146-120.nlsnga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net QUIT :Changing host < 1313902659 898261 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1313902669 477639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is just hiding his shame that he didn't think of ! for destroy and ~ for tail. < 1313902679 573534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoping nobody will ever know. < 1313902694 552657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it runs. < 1313902737 114508 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do gcc wander.c -o wander, then ./rezzo ./wander < 1313902737 186519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--help?! What's this nonsense! < 1313902738 977412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nice docs < 1313902742 377794 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thx :) < 1313902757 170324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (sm.ack == ACK_INVALID_MESSAGE) { < 1313902763 95515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... would not call walking into a wall an "invalid message". < 1313902768 56680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing HAPPENED, but it was perfectly possible to try. < 1313902779 188376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that wall could have been created on the same turn. < 1313902785 615804 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brrrrrf. < 1313902788 200152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(How do you handle such cases, when the ordering of agents is revealed?) < 1313902796 969527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's a lot of special cases. < 1313902798 460670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1313902814 963960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, I did ./rezzo ./wander and can't fucking find the bastard at all. < 1313902827 146478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should flash the general area with inverted colours at the start :P < 1313902851 323788 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1313902868 481321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what would you be open to? It's literally impossible to find. < 1313902889 399795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with four of them I can only find two. < 1313902916 922899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't appear to generate any blocks on the most right hand side of the field... an off-by-one? < 1313903004 558710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More ignoring? < 1313903012 779434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313903064 446202 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually trying to fix exactly that problem. < 1313903071 247328 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there's an off-by-one, but I'm yet to find it. < 1313903085 767725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The "I can't see where any contestant is" problem seems more important... < 1313903091 228441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least it is for me :P < 1313903104 232694 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be easier when they're doing something :P < 1313903131 496899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not... really? I have a high-DPI screen. < 1313903138 905262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're smaller than the specks of dust on here. < 1313903165 66378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, when they're adjacent to lines, I literally can't tell it from what subpixel rendering artifacts look like on other screens. < 1313903197 834793 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-z zooms :P < 1313903206 706407 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- so helpful < 1313903219 131142 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly I consider the issue that's not just some display nonsense to be considerably more important. < 1313903229 869471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any zoom level doesn't fit on my screen. < 1313903244 702402 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-w and -h change the field size < 1313903249 981039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That changes the gameplay. < 1313903276 373562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, here's a MODEST PROPOSAL: What about a simple tail behind the agents? Just pink to background colour in like five pixels. < 1313903280 795190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make it incredibly to see them on any zoom level. < 1313903294 321144 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually /removes/ the blocks from the right and bottom >_O < 1313903322 963226 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have not yet committed to making no changes for visibility. What I have committed to is fixing bugs before UI issues. < 1313903329 290349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK fine :P < 1313903353 247687 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (y = 0, yoff = 0; y < h-1; y++, yoff += w) { < 1313903353 366639 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (x = 0, i = yoff; x < w-1; x++, i++) { < 1313903355 353512 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ spot the stupid < 1313903377 658469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol :P < 1313903395 419756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ./rezzo ./rezzo < 1313903396 334639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW YE < 1313903400 540967 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst part is I honestly couldn't tell you why I thought it should be h-1 and w-1. < 1313903431 884578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pix[si+w*z*zy+zx] = typeColors[world->c[wi]]; < 1313903438 342027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt so slow, you could just increment pix :P < 1313903469 781407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that works here, dunno if that might have side-effects < 1313903501 357026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'm unclear how you actually do zooming... < 1313903896 425377 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arghwtf, I just "fixed" something and instead it broke everything. < 1313903911 192888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Patch (in suitable format for "hg import"): http://sprunge.us/BVGR < 1313903977 596463 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize you could - an include line ... < 1313904010 187356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yep. < 1313904017 956573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that's the one and only reason to do it ever :P < 1313904019 532192 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason my board is turning dead instantly right now >_< < 1313904036 25736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C, best language. < 1313904056 137767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What is sizeof(ServerMessage)? < 1313904065 992884 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Look at its definition :P < 1313904079 661433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is VIEWPORT_SQ < 1313904085 642666 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Look at its definition :P < 1313904095 126727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is VIEWPORT :P < 1313904103 384502 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Look at its definition :P < 1313904106 503719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay so it's thirteen squared times two plus two. < 1313904124 867551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :340 < 1313904128 965007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HARDCODED WOO < 1313904223 569013 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, apparently I don't know how to swap buffers properly (at 1AM) >_< < 1313904234 311526 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : tmp = world->c2; < 1313904234 395030 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : world->c = world->c2; < 1313904234 467410 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : world->c2 = tmp; < 1313904236 409056 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spot the bug! < 1313904335 980127 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :n = sqrt(a^2 + b^2) < 1313904388 902439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Almost as helpful as hagb4rd or whatever his name is :P < 1313904408 449422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The amount of infrastructure required for a simple bot is astonishing :P < 1313904416 435081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, slightly less simple than wander, by which I mean, recording anything at all. < 1313904427 806770 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh :P < 1313904435 133759 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wander is clearly the best bot. < 1313904445 809111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly the problem is that I have to translate it all to decent structures on read... < 1313904452 920403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I SUSPECT may take longer than 0 seconds. < 1313904460 67821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And operating on it in raw ASCII form is gross. < 1313904494 39845 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOULDA USED C LOL < 1313904596 45172 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh C ... could it be, that C is the language with the most different compilers ever written < 1313904623 456476 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1313904638 440218 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By making wander use BUILD instead of ADVANCE, I made a circuit! < 1313904671 292891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Woooo :P < 1313904680 295482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now if only we could say it was POOPING and have the names on our side....................... < 1313904680 833662 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what people need to be told when listing the virtues of C < 1313904709 718780 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ... that IS one of the virtues of C ... < 1313904733 909299 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That list probably goes C, C++, JavaScript, by the way :) < 1313904757 189587 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, OK, some of the olde languages may be up there too >_> ) < 1313904759 549966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript? Really? :P < 1313904762 932677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a fanboy. < 1313904774 10354 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Every browser has an implementation! < 1313904819 804717 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I've pushed my last changes for tonight, I'm going to sleep. < 1313904821 118116 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about languages like fortran/fourth/cobol < 1313904832 611770 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : (OK, OK, some of the olde languages may be up there too >_> ) < 1313904859 812928 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :magical google adventure time! < 1313904859 885453 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think COBOL actually had that many implementations though? < 1313904872 576523 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, zleepitime. < 1313904894 817503 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is fortran faster than C anyway? < 1313904917 21494 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Significantly, the increasing popularity of FORTRAN spurred competing computer manufacturers to provide FORTRAN compilers for their machines, so that by 1963 over 40 FORTRAN compilers existed.' fortran wins I think < 1313904925 348085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over FORTY?????????????????????????????????????? < 1313904926 912025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOOOOOOOW < 1313904930 70076 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1313904937 195961 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :by 1963! < 1313905114 353103 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, there were barely forty COMPUTERS in 1963 (zzzzzz) < 1313905138 453490 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lex Luthor stole forty fortran compilers < 1313905149 794720 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: And that's awful. < 1313905174 364405 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or was it "terrible"?) < 1313905187 215106 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Durn, it was terrible. < 1313905190 207874 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! You can't quote a meme wrong! < 1313905193 968000 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do that man < 1313905591 240098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ha ha I might be able to do it without ANY PARSING AT ALL < 1313905593 209796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEEL THE HASKELL < 1313905596 969406 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313905699 325008 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1313905773 649247 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:35:53 06:36:47: quintopia: well assuming you are using Linux, last i used that for a desktop focusing and moving to the top were independent actions < 1313905776 784683 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:35:59 That's not really a common choice nowadays :P < 1313905786 302196 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEOPLE POISONED BY WINDOWS CONVENTIONS, I SAY < 1313905841 202902 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a program, xmouse, that lets you focus on a window without bringing it to the top in windows < 1313905874 468807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also called any sloppy-focus WM ever. < 1313905891 190224 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313905992 303517 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well admittedly the wm's i used had a tendency to focus into the window the mouse was pointing to, which did have its own dangers. an actual way to _select_ a window for focus without bringing it to the top might be better. (and it probably exists.) < 1313906036 626539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's focus-follows-mouse. Sloppy focus is: Keyboard focus is behind mouse; clicking raises to surface. < 1313906063 856555 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is there a difference between the two? < 1313906065 388977 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what's the difference between those two. < 1313906139 918705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i mean selecting by some action other than simply moving the mouse, which as i said had its own dangers. < 1313906329 350184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I described the exact difference. < 1313906343 88640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Focus-follows-mouse: Keyboard focus is behind mouse; mousing into a window raises to surface. < 1313906347 667609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sloppy focus: Keyboard focus is behind mouse; clicking raises to surface. < 1313906360 4846 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1313906376 530744 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. so it has no difference for focus. < 1313906389 603452 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it works for me is clicking brings focus and clicking while holding down the super key floats the window if tiled and raises to the surface (and if you drag while holding the super key you move it around) < 1313906401 564301 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the xmonad default is that focus follows mouse but I dislike that < 1313906436 76189 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use the keyboard controls to change focus if it's something textual, and click if it's something graphical < 1313906471 429851 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1313906566 8658 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313906591 706300 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : why is fortran faster than C anyway? < 1313906610 886720 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read something about better aliasing rules that are easier to optimize < 1313906936 102716 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1313907307 667280 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/languages/fortran/ch1-2.html in particular b) < 1313907310 202197 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're right < 1313907425 444566 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a timeless document. and by that i mean it has no date. < 1313907457 241295 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/languages/fortran/ch1-2.html 1996-1998 < 1313907473 58731 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313907691 348555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Guess who has a perfect clone of wonder that also presents the whole update structure as a rich structure with ALMOST NO PARSING OVERHEAD < 1313907693 38153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE < 1313907723 595783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... it does store cells in memory as their ASCII character, so OK, it has the parsing overhead of "a really simple case statement on the character" each grid read, but c'mon :P < 1313907729 102677 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott should write advertisements < 1313907747 659229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's exactly 99 lines longer than the C version X-D < 1313907769 432138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the C version uses the headers of the C implementation and DOESN'T do any of that fancy stuff, so it's about ten times lamer. < 1313907785 442096 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, are we talking about a haskell program _longer_ than a corresponding C program? < 1313907806 815060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write the equivalent of the C program in as many lines, although it cheats by having a dependency on an implementation header file that I don't < 1313907810 566406 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may have to be some withdrawing of badges here < 1313907819 706339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote mine with an eye to generalising to bots that ACTUALLY DO ANY DECISION-MAKING AT ALL:P < 1313907822 358215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]AT ALL :P < 1313907829 476610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from "Did I just bump into a wall? Turn left. Otherwise go forwards." < 1313907843 380975 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good old Karel the Robot < 1313907855 616224 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.16.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313907855 772651 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.16.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1313907855 844098 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1313907872 141829 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :another instance of me reading programming books without access to a computer < 1313907901 907648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder.hs:25:20: < 1313907901 979328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Warning: Defaulting the following constraint(s) to type `Integer' < 1313907901 979497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Integral b0) arising from a use of `^' at wonder.hs:25:20 < 1313907901 979609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Num b0) arising from the literal `2' at wonder.hs:25:21 < 1313907901 979714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: viewport ^ 2 < 1313907902 431520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : In an equation for `viewSize': viewSize = viewport ^ 2 < 1313907907 505992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LITERALLY HAVE "VIEWSIZE :: INT" THE PREVIOUS LINE < 1313907910 793935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE < 1313907915 856618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's defaulting the TWO to Integer :P < 1313907942 447364 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JERKS < 1313907951 780432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: wat < 1313907960 86942 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1313907960 573418 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you must have some humongous warning level :P < 1313907965 776028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: -Wall < 1313907981 569655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Warning about defaulting is reasonable since Integer is slow :P < 1313907987 133103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is polymorphism < 1313907991 927514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :viewSize_rZ1 = < 1313907991 999301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case $wf1 13 lvl27_r2Tk of ww_s2Kb { __DEFAULT -> < 1313907991 999452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I# ww_s2Kb < 1313907991 999523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1313907993 589348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr someone complaining about ^ giving too many warnings before < 1313907994 457965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID YOU NOT CONSTANT FOLD THAT < 1313907996 657683 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: elliott actually set up GHC to give inapplicable warnings. Just to keep him on his toes. < 1313908013 312069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :viewSize :: Int < 1313908013 486497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :viewSize = viewport * viewport < 1313908016 947257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S SEE IF YOU CAN CONSTANT FOLD THIS < 1313908047 665285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now viewSize doesn't even exist :P < 1313908054 801249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In Core) < 1313908100 482031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You'll be pleased to know that I use no less than _two_ unsafe functions in this program. < 1313908113 378113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ignoring castPtr/poke/peek I needed to implement Storable for Cell. < 1313908122 577321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, make that three. < 1313908124 190465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getViewBytes :: Get (Vector Word8) < 1313908124 516798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getViewBytes = do < 1313908124 589022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bytes <- getBytes viewSize < 1313908124 589204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (ptr, offs, len) = BI.toForeignPtr bytes < 1313908124 589311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return $ V.unsafeFromForeignPtr ptr offs len < 1313908125 417091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getView :: Get (Vector Cell) < 1313908127 212468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getView = V.unsafeCast <$> getViewBytes < 1313908133 61224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BI is, of course, Data.ByteString.Internal, an unstable API. < 1313908142 768907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I somewhat doubt toForeignPtr's interface will change much. < 1313908156 547165 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also recall someone complaining that ghc did not optimize ^2 < 1313908162 382096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The cast is safe.) < 1313908164 704661 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of these were years ago < 1313908169 614657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It might have even been m- oh :P < 1313908174 455616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WASN'T BORN YEARS AGO < 1313908189 818523 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not _that_ many years. after i joined this channel, certainly < 1313908199 524247 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Winning condition is unachievable :P < 1313908205 893374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good sleeping, eh? < 1313908207 125394 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you did only slightly later. < 1313908210 562731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wanna see my Haskell? :P < 1313908216 773919 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right up until I realized the winning condition was unachievable it was 8-D < 1313908223 436437 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Noooooo! < 1313908225 622310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you even place flags? < 1313908226 501770 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It still pisses me off that I'm older than you. MY LIFE WAS WASTED < 1313908236 836718 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, but that's not the reason. < 1313908236 908610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: You're probably more accomplished than me. < 1313908239 987744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D < 1313908246 920151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sprunge.us/ZYPI BEHOLD MY WANDER CLONE < 1313908247 169677 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FSOV accomplished :D < 1313908249 706151 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have a vague idea it was probably on haskell-cafe < 1313908253 754290 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (The implementation is incomplete, but I mean by /spec/ it's unachievable) < 1313908269 865141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually proud of that code, it doesn't really have a single grotty line, even when it's doing something totally unsafe :) < 1313908279 975847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it only actually does in really one place in the code, but anyway < 1313908305 556031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE MultiParamTypeClasses #-} < 1313908305 921459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh cool, this is actually unneeded < 1313908322 231820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So why is that? < 1313908325 959017 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does this thing do < 1313908330 238403 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1313908346 592690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It's a bot for Gregor's neat-o WireWorld-based programming game :P < 1313908351 474477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a very stupid bot. < 1313908358 130578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is exactly as stupid as the example bot Gregor wrote. < 1313908363 918170 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1313908373 269128 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT Wireworld :D < 1313908379 973902 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*W < 1313908387 334365 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, where's this game? < 1313908388 653835 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants
< 1313908393 736323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Here's his: http://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/index.cgi/file/c4149bcda0c3/wander.c < 1313908406 591936 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyone has made a game based on the day and night CA < 1313908408 129484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is just a port of that thing's logic to a much more generic, efficient, nice, pretty Haskell framework for this :P < 1313908432 32430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Optimised because you have exactly 0.06 seconds to decide what to do each tick. < 1313908439 589702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, FSVO exactly :P) < 1313908445 276281 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one color per player, each turn it evolves normally and each player gets to manually change the color of one pixel < 1313908445 359963 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could have just said "Haskell framework" :D < 1313908456 406361 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :goal is to wipe the other player's color off the board < 1313908456 996262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Now now, I'm not THAT much of a fanboy :P < 1313908460 473429 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313908494 503207 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm midproposal for the UVM CS department, and the year hasn't even started < 1313908499 473071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I do need to add is an additional thread... I basically need to run a "decide what to do thread" that decides what to do each turn and gets killed if it takes too long. < 1313908510 863709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, in turn, has to draw from a longer-term "plan based on world state as merged in from updates"... < 1313908517 385700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wander doesn't need any of that :P < 1313908522 157191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: So why is that? < 1313908529 278319 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: So why is that? // electrons spread flags, and bases act like permanent flags. To win you have to get an enemy flag next to your base. But that means you have to put an electron between the two, which, having two incompatible options, will simply dissipate. < 1313908538 652503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick typing < 1313908542 475279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More likely very slow typing) < 1313908546 942216 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh D&N has a wp page < 1313908556 487847 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: link? < 1313908560 134461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Darnes & Noble? My first thought. < 1313908565 972561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah, yeah, day and night :P) < 1313908577 47413 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Darnes and Noble is how I feel everytime I leave one of those stores < 1313908581 486317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1313908598 15526 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depressing bookstores < 1313908611 323927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to sit here assuming Gregor thinks my Haskell is amazing. < 1313908614 834156 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, found the link, oerjan, so don't bother, if you were going to < 1313908643 809489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it for me oerjan < 1313908646 846179 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is always amazing < 1313908655 404171 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_%26_Night < 1313908674 734444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can't spot a pun... IS THIS A FANBOY STATEMENT FROM OERJAN??? < 1313908676 458036 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to invent an anti-gun < 1313908687 679841 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, i love day and night < 1313908701 972654 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty awesome < 1313908702 322136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant re haskell < 1313908705 126020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Day & Night is prettier than GoL, hough < 1313908705 826853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1313908711 121359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it is TC? < 1313908714 963536 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that. well i suppose. < 1313908747 54256 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly complicated enough to be TC < 1313908751 357959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1313908755 824142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so are a lot of things :) < 1313908763 475424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess those things are usually tc though :/ < 1313908774 382678 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE HUMANS TURING COMPLETE. DISCUSS < 1313908779 318735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/Ladder_burst.gif this is pretty < 1313908783 787646 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISPLAY YOUR FLESHY BRAINS < 1313908789 325593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really pretty < 1313908796 834144 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite memory, says some people < 1313908864 60162 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what CA is that < 1313908866 919396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: life without death < 1313908870 649649 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1313908927 138350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you admire my beautiful haskell :{ < 1313908932 596996 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no < 1313909002 760240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUCH A TERBL PERSON < 1313909016 86854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean it was not beautiful < 1313909067 977598 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the optimization sads me a bit < 1313909068 860747 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TOO MANY POINTS < 1313909075 974144 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iz ok. btw you don't need to repeat an identical pattern for a new guard. < 1313909076 51914 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOAR @PL < 1313909103 66189 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to play with unusual cellular automata you can use MCell < 1313909107 791791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is there an obvious fix to the spec, or? < 1313909111 350156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh? < 1313909111 625074 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it doesn't matter when it's a single character < 1313909113 471018 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did nested guards finally happen < 1313909121 263695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hm, like I can just start it with |? < 1313909127 792580 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1313909143 965219 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1313909146 313702 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no, has always been that way < 1313909150 674050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that feels really weird... local bindings propagating to an AST node not included within that binding structure < 1313909153 269542 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of something else < 1313909161 255627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll keep the "c" because that makes me feel happier than that thing which is disturbing? < 1313909161 874952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1313909167 359230 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the busiest IRC channel I frequent. < 1313909167 839184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess it kind of is one pattern with a lot of guards < 1313909169 126349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1313909169 424721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1313909173 953695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: not without me >:D < 1313909180 470423 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Get all up in #haskell < 1313909183 701556 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking pattern in the sense of not haskell paterns but more like patterns occurring throughout the code < 1313909188 402749 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But avoid #haskell-in-depth < 1313909190 350187 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one talks < 1313909196 297768 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I think I misread something < 1313909220 847682 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell is okay < 1313909226 470076 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, no real reason to stay there. < 1313909229 766629 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The solution, obviously, was to hurry up and become God." This line makes me far too happy. < 1313909230 115676 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but the guards _are_ in the scope of the same pattern < 1313909271 950058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah i know < 1313909272 802489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just < 1313909275 42734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1313909279 528225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the indentation would push it that far anyway :D < 1313909288 57696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet: Get all up in #haskell < 1313909293 262414 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1313909296 806346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: it's much less homely/useful now that it's so busy :( < 1313909310 969494 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, sure. But I still have fun < 1313909314 762075 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes #haskell wasn't very busy when I was there. < 1313909321 984424 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk is enough to make me happy nearly daily < 1313909354 470008 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't even know about Haskell were it not for Lisp < 1313909361 24693 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, Land of LIsp < 1313909362 984124 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Lisp < 1313909389 176892 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i do recall there was some kind of proposal for nesting guards and/or patterns < 1313909391 262329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I'm getting paid to move bytes around. < 1313909404 242659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :strategically. < 1313909407 857946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: everyone is just paid to move atoms around. < 1313909408 959778 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd also like multiple-clause lambda < 1313909409 410744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strategically. < 1313909411 666341 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea was that you should be able to nest without committing to the branch you nested into < 1313909430 442182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: edwardk is nice... you only knew haskell since land of lisp? < 1313909430 582248 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good point < 1313909441 181605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really didn't like that guy's short thing about lisp and haskell < 1313909448 975401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can say it's in jest but it still betrays your biases < 1313909454 122221 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was the first place I heard of it. Then I dropped Lisp and Scheme like syphilitic whores < 1313909464 502631 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/11/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality < 1313909468 400532 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omakes < 1313909468 674014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rude, I like Scheme. < 1313909472 882028 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313909482 211578 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I (mostly Racket) < 1313909489 772500 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm still almost all Haskell, now < 1313909491 24727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_ has finally got to the point where it's impossible to tell if he's confused or just stupid. < 1313909500 6611 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1313909506 206589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/11/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality < 1313909506 381525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Omakes < 1313909513 284283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it prudent to keep track of less beautiful languages for the purposes of making money. < 1313909516 634147 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as bad as it sounds. < 1313909523 819746 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1730364/Hans_von_Hozel best fanfic author imo < 1313909531 447516 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Scheme was my first exposure to FP, and I do love it. But Haskell's just nicer on a personal level < 1313909538 536639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Knowing the more beautiful languages is a much scarcer skill. < 1313909542 674694 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hans von hozel's fanfics are truly amazing < 1313909558 98253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: And not one generally called upon to do tedious busywork like you're enjoying. < 1313909559 434117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sayin'. < 1313909560 51835 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ....what? < 1313909568 946704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you continue to push the boundaries. < 1313909590 551150 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused as to what, exactly, is wrong with what I said. < 1313909604 468412 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I know C, a little C++, and some x86. I can't even touch Java < 1313909607 696174 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hurts me < 1313909612 67842 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :J Rowling's How to Build an Empire Writing a Few Magic Novels < 1313909642 937894 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I've been working in C# for the past fews days, but now I'm suddenly in Python. < 1313909644 163050 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk < 1313909646 189164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how amazing are these fan fictions i must know < 1313909647 205375 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more familiar setting. < 1313909653 257126 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: ....lol < 1313909657 898299 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implementation < 1313909661 357276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk < 1313909663 175041 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :611) Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk < 1313909666 722533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :56. We are the Pirates reviews < 1313909666 795202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirates make their sail in to LazyTown! < 1313909666 795402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazytown - Rated: K - English - Crime/Suspense - Chapters: 1 - Words: 199 - Reviews: 8 - Published: 5-17-09 - Stephanie & Sportacus - Complete < 1313909666 795532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :57. Eurovision Song Contest 2009 » reviews < 1313909666 795635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, that the ending can only make its finish when the contest actually happens. < 1313909668 156988 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if i recall correctly, so amazing < 1313909668 235087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV X-overs - Rated: K - English - Drama/Suspense - Chapters: 11 - Words: 1,673 - Reviews: 9 - Updated: 5-17-09 - Published: 5-8-09 < 1313909668 831679 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, shit < 1313909671 84517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i cant decide which to read < 1313909671 345224 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1313909676 709957 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you please fix my spelling? :D < 1313909685 446910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: elliott has this thing about Perl, you see... < 1313909686 49743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Sorry, but I cannot misrepresent lines. < 1313909695 849386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are plenty of typos in the database; you will just have to suffer in unison. < 1313909696 708966 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asterisked it :P < 1313909706 390579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I AM THE ARCHIVIST. YOU SHALL NOT DISTORT THE RECORD. < 1313909711 810076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That R in Record is capitalised. < 1313909719 457804 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH EURASIA < 1313909733 767615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5067667/1/We_are_the_Pirates < 1313909734 333981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1313909734 932178 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE rECORD < 1313909738 84212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maybe we should have not made our stealings their detection!" shout Captain Pirate, as the nuke to collide LazyTown and a boom. < 1313909746 60109 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313909759 550211 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :VVE HAVE ALVVAYS BEEN AT VVAR VVITH EVRASIA. < 1313909762 335625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people were all stuck on boats because the Snails owned the world now. --http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5048176/1/Maple_Story < 1313909769 830921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this is the bes tfixtion < 1313909771 675447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiction < 1313909776 906939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :80. Danube to the Stars reviews < 1313909776 979045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Englands are tired at being confuse with America! < 1313909776 979238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allo Allo! - Rated: K - English - Sci-Fi - Chapters: 1 - Words: 284 - Reviews: 7 - Published: 5-7-09 - Complete < 1313909779 218251 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What is elliott's thing about Perl, anyway/ < 1313909780 872498 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1313909783 166836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :allo allo fanfiction < 1313909805 199946 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality I've actually been finding this utterly amusing. < 1313909814 342446 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a bit... Too much. < 1313909829 423649 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Was this the channel where I first saw that mentioned, or was it #jesus? < 1313909834 935187 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably here. < 1313909846 830552 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it a bit too easy to excuse an 11 year old genius polymath. < 1313909850 908062 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a protagonist. < 1313909854 854869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Methods of Rationality has potential in concept but it's really terrible. < 1313909873 900463 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, there's many obvious flaws in the writing. < 1313909878 570882 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: his enjoyment of Perl bashing, I suppose. < 1313909879 319104 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concept is just amusing the hell out of me. < 1313909886 886246 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Immortal is the only fanfiction that matters, ever < 1313909893 365069 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyblade Yaoi be damned! < 1313909894 252010 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my immortal is good yes < 1313909906 842959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone would like a summary: Harry Potter is a brat, but Eliezer Yudkowsky -- sorry, I mean Eliezer Potter -- is always right. This is because he uses Logic while everyone uses Stupid. Except when he's wrong!!! But even then, he's right. < 1313909923 295829 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds awful < 1313909925 894893 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you hadn't noticed, I am willing to excuse a hell of a lot when the ideas entertain me. < 1313909927 996527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: But if you have a thing for self-insert wish fulfilment fantasy fan fiction... < 1313909930 65584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be my guest. < 1313909941 298024 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[02:59:58] pikhq_: But if you have a thing for self-insert wish fulfilment fantasy fan fiction... < 1313909954 934890 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about five words too long < 1313909957 109244 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Like I said, many obvious flaws. < 1313909960 253420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: hey our timezones match imagine that. < 1313909967 657988 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, rather. < 1313909973 86539 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going back to hans von hozel ok < 1313909978 906825 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yeah, the whole GMT -5:00. Nobody lives there. :P < 1313909988 600329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1313909995 590134 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually a ghost. < 1313910006 492709 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313910009 632199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The problem is that the purpose of the story is basically to recruit people into the Great Rationalist Yudkowsky Worshipping Circlejerk, and Harry is the vector for this. < 1313910015 574056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: But this means that Harry can never actually fail, ever. < 1313910016 382059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am an elaborate timepiece. < 1313910028 808929 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, yeah. Yudkowsky does enjoy his circlejerking. < 1313910030 350860 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TockProphet < 1313910032 979519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the embodiment of rationality, and so it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for him to ever fail, because that would not match the worldview the thing is trying to portray. < 1313910044 635462 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That doesn't mean I can't be entertained by his thoughts from time to time. < 1313910045 717573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there can never actually be any real conflict, so it's pretty much DOA as fiction. < 1313910061 96289 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be too dead to enjoy any of it < 1313910061 207255 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic Sue < 1313910082 662511 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You needn't worry, I'm not about to go out joining the Yudkowsky circlejerk. < 1313910103 842426 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, but < 1313910106 996232 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my erection < 1313910111 858536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. I gave up on MOR basically when it became clear that Eliezer wasn't going to stop pushing his terrible view of social interaction. < 1313910113 446158 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so… < 1313910114 881754 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rational < 1313910115 414190 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: For a rationalist, he seems exceptionally egotistic. < 1313910138 672909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The only thing anyone cares about ever is status; therefore everyone should master portraying status and you will WIN. This applies UNIVERSALLY.") < 1313910154 985585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'd say his ego is the largest I can think of. < 1313910156 362906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure this is also the mentality that created the hilarious "pickup artist" bullshit... < 1313910162 731721 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude check out my cool stuff. < 1313910171 33876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am totally not a douchebag. < 1313910178 745605 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, TBH, is a pretty major flaw in someone who claims to engage in rational thought often. :P < 1313910223 508552 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, anyways, I'm enjoying his wank-in-text-form, perhaps a bit too much. < 1313910236 902616 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I knew kids like that in school < 1313910239 626442 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was painful < 1313910243 485169 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say that many of my thoughts correspond to ratios very much. < 1313910253 300475 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Smartass. < 1313910269 659010 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :π/1 < 1313910279 974730 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam, π is a rational number < 1313910280 47067 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Smartass². < 1313910280 307308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: It's pretty much the view most commonly picked up by being an cynical nerd who's bad at social interaction. < 1313910281 952320 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU MATH < 1313910298 347115 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Exactly. To a fucking t < 1313910300 359227 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tee < 1313910300 792128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cynicism is pretty much the source of everything unbearable except the things it isn't the source of. < 1313910305 560655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helpful statements from elliott. < 1313910321 591264 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. I'm a cynical nerd who's bad at social interaction, and I just figure that there's something I'm missing here. < 1313910327 775382 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Smart nerds just pick up drinking < 1313910338 456804 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, pikhq_ < 1313910347 190275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Try not being a cynic. < 1313910357 657360 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, but it ain't easy. < 1313910365 77310 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many people seem to try hard to justify cynicism. < 1313910384 440798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Young people who pretend to be wise to the ways of the world are mostly just cynics. Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but it is the farthest thing from it. Because cynics don’t learn anything. Because cynicism is a self-imposed blindness, a rejection of the world because we are afraid it will hurt us or disappoint us." --STEPHEN COLBERT BEYOTCHES < 1313910392 82799 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't think of how to fix my flags :P < 1313910392 602632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think this is how you win arguments on the Internet; quoting Stephen Colbert.) < 1313910401 199563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's the problem again? I forgot completely :P < 1313910411 642307 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: So why is that? // electrons spread flags, and bases act like permanent flags. To win you have to get an enemy flag next to your base. But that means you have to put an electron between the two, which, having two incompatible options, will simply dissipate. < 1313910423 559115 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I've read from arguments on the internet that this is a good approach < 1313910433 528268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "electrons spread flags"? If an electron has a flag behind it, it copies a flag as it move? < 1313910434 496139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moves? < 1313910447 787238 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I explained these rules :P < 1313910453 348242 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Actually, not sure that "cynicism" is quite the right term for what's a much more simple "fuck most everything, everything is wrong and could be better". < 1313910456 507209 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A flag moves if there's an electron next to it. < 1313910461 334301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, rather than making it dissipate into space, just have it dissipate INTO A FLAG :P < 1313910472 298486 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In certain contexts that could even be interpreted as optimisim, even. < 1313910474 901420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The problem is when you apply it to people. < 1313910474 973185 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, to get a flag from point A to point B, you have to continuously send a sequence of electrons from B to A. < 1313910482 691364 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was one two many "even"s. < 1313910491 316453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, sure, everything sucks, but "people suck" doesn't explain that and it isn't helpful in any way. < 1313910491 388291 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: s/arguments on the internet/any reddit thread ever/ < 1313910495 38755 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That doesn't make any sense, since the rules for the base and flag conflict. < 1313910495 174401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hrm. I... Generally don't, actually. < 1313910519 211029 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should all be nihilists < 1313910522 896830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm... < 1313910524 136905 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm great < 1313910531 914945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you sure? :P < 1313910534 341462 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Also dandies? < 1313910536 979486 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming I exist, which is a big if < 1313910538 316966 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very few people actually intend to do things that are wrong, evil, stupid, etc. Quite a few people act on misinformation, though. < 1313910543 138274 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Especially dandies < 1313910547 181866 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bases turn into flags ... that's how you get flags in the first place. < 1313910558 854334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it is? Okay :P < 1313910562 706725 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Being actively evil is kinda fun, though < 1313910563 389848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking of bases as FLAG-KILLERS. < 1313910563 528142 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is, they behave like a flag, except they don't disappear when there's an electron next to them. < 1313910570 859967 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Meh. < 1313910581 54802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm... flags are basically spreading currents, aren't they? < 1313910585 272359 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Fundamentally uninteresting, IME. < 1313910588 311000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just make them literally that and drop the electrons. < 1313910594 481672 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no. < 1313910595 544140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could just wire up opponent's base to your base. < 1313910597 639059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK :P < 1313910613 202575 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) Wiring an opponents base to your base = flags spreading in both directions, lol < 1313910614 631141 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really, it'd be so easy and *boring* to be evil. < 1313910620 692254 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: You just don't know any really evil people. Cynical douche != villain < 1313910621 75211 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :B) Remember the whole conversation about flags moving under lightspeed? < 1313910638 415735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah >_> < 1313910650 151720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what to do, but the basic model seems like it should be right... < 1313910673 162130 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flag would just be a special, slow-moving electron < 1313910681 331529 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1313910692 742558 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is generated from...uh, the flag. < 1313910693 776536 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Start assassinating a single, random individual with a sniper rifle, move on after each such instance. Start leaving notes in conspicuous places detailing this, threatening to not stop unless my goals are met. Simple, easy, evil, and fucking *boring as all hell*. < 1313910701 51605 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules as stands: Flag with no electrons -> flag. Electron next to flag -> flag. Electron next to base -> flag. Electron otherwise or next to conflicting flags/bases -> tail. Flag next to opponent's base -> conductor + lose. < 1313910719 790536 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Murder is boring evil. Terrorism is a dreadful bore. < 1313910730 245360 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real evil is much more subtle. < 1313910739 233089 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV evil is boring. < 1313910752 497059 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real evil is also a problem space I find even less interesting. < 1313910752 568928 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANOTHER THUNDERSTORM, INDIANA? < 1313910753 726135 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1313910759 532853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm... < 1313910760 539441 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's three today. < 1313910772 936187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It FEELS like it should be a really simple fix :P < 1313910777 988048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELPFUL < 1313910783 494226 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think it would make more sense if flag simply generated a special flag electron when connected to a condcutor. < 1313910797 642468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....please fix my horrible typos. < 1313910800 322162 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kthx < 1313910802 720106 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But that means that when you connect your base to the opponent's, you now have flags moving in both directions. < 1313910805 434281 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is much worse. < 1313910813 198329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then it goes onto the FLAG FIGHT STATE < 1313910814 37135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STAGE < 1313910819 459789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[GAME MUSIC] < 1313910819 960161 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, I am not cut out for this "evil mastermind" business, since I can't even consider it interesting enough to think about how one would *hypothetically* go about it for more than a few seconds. :P < 1313910844 684840 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not if you wait to connect to your base. < 1313910847 235165 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you win. < 1313910866 329356 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, then your base poops a flag. < 1313910876 203513 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well you already won by then < 1313910900 569166 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a_.B -> a.B -> aAB < 1313910904 217467 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you haven't won. < 1313910911 883146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the _ < 1313910914 450551 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space < 1313910914 756148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space? < 1313910941 275638 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that notation doesn't mean anything to me. < 1313910947 994895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, flags can... change space into wire? < 1313910949 170274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor? < 1313910957 182084 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: a is a base, A and B are flags, . is a conductor, _ is space. < 1313910972 540000 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was being done by an agent. I'm just showing what's wrong with CakeProphet's model. < 1313910981 902115 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ANOTHER THUNDERSTORM, INDIANA? That's three today. Gregor: It FEELS like it should be a really simple fix :P < 1313910985 828088 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :612) ANOTHER THUNDERSTORM, INDIANA? That's three today. Gregor: It FEELS like it should be a really simple fix :P < 1313911039 958756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so your saying that your flag electron prevents their flag electron from ever reaching your base? < 1313911059 858886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you just like, make the rules work so that it doesn't do that? :P < 1313911086 516506 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Even if you did, it would take such ridiculous precision timing to do it right that I find it grotty at best. < 1313911097 936762 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is the same answer to the same fix for the current system) < 1313911192 541776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is this going to require a major rework of some sort? < 1313911230 579854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Here's a random idea: Destroying a base creates a flag-destroying virus that spreads. You have to destroy all flag cells of your opponent to win. < 1313911238 561327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have to take out the base and then get any on disconnected wires. < 1313911239 355470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. < 1313911306 953286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is now ignoring me and coming up with something better :P < 1313911345 755203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think it would just make sense if opposite flag electrons didn't interfere with one another, and then it just becomes a matter of who got their base connected last. < 1313911753 993060 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It probably won't require a major rework. It's probably too easy to just glut the substrate with flags and then block off your own base in that system ... maybe. < 1313911761 36535 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: This is a CA. That is not how CAs work :P < 1313911786 738161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why not... < 1313911806 983763 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...A.B... <-- lol what do you do here < 1313911829 993056 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....C.... presumably < 1313911833 893246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh yeah, I'd rather you just quickly patch up the current system, I was just giving an option if that's not possible :P < 1313911876 665392 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking maybe "base" and "flag geyser" need to be distinct. < 1313911907 114536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bases spit out geysers :P < 1313911923 11169 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bases spit out nothing, they're just for swallowing opponent flags :P < 1313912001 683651 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wouldn't it be easy if they just existed in the same place for a frame and then continued on? < 1313912014 352733 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could make it sound more formal. < 1313912040 739951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAs don't work like that. < 1313912054 351607 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't make one that works like that? < 1313912060 513170 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could. < 1313912062 625533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not without additional junk states. < 1313912067 183792 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so be it. < 1313912079 344560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about that's terrible. < 1313912088 457842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would cause a HUGE explosion of junk states for clients to deal with. < 1313912103 408181 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also note that electrons are worthless in that system. < 1313912104 371532 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of two junk states. < 1313912125 143297 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ah, good point. < 1313912128 725415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For each A/B < 1313912134 507230 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Every cell has 2^players states to accommodate every possible flag combination. < 1313912136 722333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nine warriors < 1313912150 10871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not EVERY cell :P < 1313912167 766341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, you're kind of fucked wrt more players... well, I guess you could use the few characters after 9 < 1313912178 146320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, breaking protocol changes rock < 1313912181 726861 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't care about supporting more than *10. < 1313912190 925839 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make up some new formalism. throw some operators in, everything will be fine. >_> < 1313912198 499688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can imagine a really packed grid being fun... < 1313912208 364092 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME ON PEOPLE < 1313912215 499875 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOLVE OUR WIN-CONDITION PROBLEM < 1313912230 770051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Base and flag geyser < 1313912232 426444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Money plox < 1313912239 740995 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was my solution :P < 1313912279 561308 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I just noticed that you can protect your base by glutting it with your own flags X-D < 1313912280 456826 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one does the agent start at? < 1313912289 615333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Flags can be destroyed < 1313912296 121005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What if your flags... were the bases. < 1313912298 234300 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The agent in any situation starts in otherwise-empty space around them, not on either. < 1313912321 226678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they get to know where they are? < 1313912321 446809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Note that you're going to have at least one ambiguous case because DRAWS ARE THINGS THAT EXIST < 1313912321 518771 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What if you destroy every flag? < 1313912327 936185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then you get more from the flag geyser < 1313912344 928854 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Of course you get to know where your own base and flaggey are... < 1313912362 456800 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OHHHHHH, I see what you're saying. < 1313912363 986585 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolflaggey < 1313912373 151741 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But now you're saying that touching two flags = win ... but win for who? < 1313912378 244015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Gregor: Note that you're going to have at least one ambiguous case because DRAWS ARE THINGS THAT EXIST < 1313912381 720287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313912383 863916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what you mean :P < 1313912389 963764 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draws are the only circumstance here :P < 1313912396 698637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, electron hitting a flag turns it into a DEATH FLAG. < 1313912401 495097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEATH FLAG and flag = win for flag. < 1313912402 952733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1313912431 108809 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could make for some interesting strategies. < 1313912451 882237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...so anyway, unrelated thing but something I keep messing up mentally: You remembered to include the row/column the agent is on when sending the view, right? < 1313912483 971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you... can't see things next to you. Which I guess is realistic in a sense, but at the same time, it's elegant to start next to your base and flag or whatever, rather than directly in front of them so you can see them :P < 1313912502 870272 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the flag/death-flag rules. < 1313912507 111692 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it's the bottommost row. < 1313912542 599475 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it would mean that the strategic placement of electrons is important < 1313912552 557693 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas before they were irrelevant. < 1313912564 308865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh dear, CakeProphet likes my joke... is it any good? :P < 1313912571 41065 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No :P < 1313912592 469064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :( < 1313912601 971487 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1313912604 513565 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just another "glut everything to win" < 1313912614 800750 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what the word glut means. < 1313912617 291415 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protect your flag and barf electrons everywhere. < 1313912624 418679 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define glut < 1313912626 831370 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/define: line 10: lynx: command not found < 1313912631 252669 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: You're not helpful :P < 1313912647 266253 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verb: Supply or fill to excess: "the factories for recycling paper are glutted". < 1313912647 612160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nonono, because you have to touch the special death flag. < 1313912650 724356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With your flag. < 1313912658 442365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And death flags turn into flags as soon as they move. < 1313912666 321541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so the idea is that you have to avoid electrons. < 1313912671 216716 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now that part you didn't mention. < 1313912673 834573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313912678 161460 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while making sure your oponents flag gets electrified. < 1313912682 230118 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do flags move? < 1313912688 332975 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In this setting) < 1313912732 401210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as before I think? < 1313912738 119211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Same way as usual. < 1313912746 963939 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usual is that electrons move them. < 1313912752 300210 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that means they're all ooooh deathflags. < 1313912754 786133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1313912759 494696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They just spread along wire naturally, I guess :) < 1313912764 262837 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if they just move like electrons but aren't electrons. < 1313912768 204209 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1313912781 860063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OR, electrons move them, but if an electron would push it OFF A WIRE, it becomes a deathflag. < 1313912786 70545 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then you could never catch them with an electron AND get your flag to them, lightspeed restriction. < 1313912795 793068 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Electrons pull, they don't push. < 1313912814 941175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but they could pull them onto non-wire :P < 1313912831 487112 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could they do that? They're electrons, they're on a wire by definition. < 1313912871 386481 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea that the flag is a death flag permanently (well, until it dies...) < 1313912872 597614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :True >_> < 1313912881 372261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, OK, to despecify slightly: < 1313912899 753357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Flags get turned into deathflags [somehow]. Deathflags turn into flags when they move. Flags move as before, by electrons. Flag touching deathflag = win for flag. < 1313912907 367255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All we need now is somehow :P < 1313912907 450105 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you guys played super bomberman games? < 1313912947 237858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with a flag becoming a death flag permanently when it touches an electron? < 1313912964 427349 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Errr ... observation ... that doesn't solve the VERY FIRST PROBLEM, it just makes both sides motive. < 1313912988 734827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Eh? < 1313913014 200703 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: .F*D. <-- lol that * should turn into both flags < 1313913028 669154 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How do those flags move? < 1313913035 456650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as always. < 1313913044 417342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I mean to say < 1313913044 739732 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAGS - MOVE - BY - ELECTRONS >_< < 1313913045 85322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So they fizzle like electrons do when giving up < 1313913055 747390 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags are just electron-like here. < 1313913067 231176 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then you can't win. < 1313913090 104099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope, because there's an electron below that asterisk < 1313913105 930102 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe death flag + your flag = your WIN flag < 1313913110 687426 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That asterisk is an electron ... < 1313913111 887876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you must then bring back to your base. < 1313913139 741072 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Frankly I'm not a fan of any system where flags move like electrons ... < 1313913154 816306 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're too fast, you can't meaningfully react to their presence if they're lightspeed. < 1313913155 558814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- okay. < 1313913167 197932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could always be slower. < 1313913173 218441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU get to make the rules, you know. < 1313913181 810128 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't like state hell :P < 1313913186 484655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: That asterisk is an electron ... < 1313913193 727329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1313913207 859487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, death flags turn into slightly-less-death-flags after a tick, and then turn into normal flags after that :D < 1313913214 779462 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1313913220 933529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel an infinite regress. < 1313913227 247106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, so first we have infinite states... < 1313913248 713515 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm likin' my base-and-geyser system a hell of a lot more than any of these nutty things :P < 1313913257 327609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I thought there was something wrong with that < 1313913266 146160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you used to have geysers, I hg-nosied < 1313913279 796731 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just used that terminology instead of "base" before. < 1313913284 276433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/50489 jesus christ < 1313913285 311001 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes the win-flag system that he is imagining, though he's not sure that everyone else is imagining the same thing.
< 1313913311 326758 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I stopped reading after pok�IntElement < 1313913340 612737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: DID YOU READ MY AWESOME HASKELL WARRIOR THOUGH < 1313913347 464892 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope 8-D < 1313913351 399599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOMÉ < 1313913355 205129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not even glance?? :'( < 1313913359 55949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WILL YOU IF I LINK IT < 1313913360 407169 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I glanced :P < 1313913371 923432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: and there's not state-hell if you just make it so that states can be superimposed < 1313913380 505301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAS < 1313913380 929954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO < 1313913381 262192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT < 1313913381 619427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORK < 1313913382 148887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT < 1313913382 593861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAY < 1313913382 833640 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Superimposing states IS state hell >_< < 1313913393 87023 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that hpaste what < 1313913438 156531 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would write that < 1313913472 535619 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these annotations < 1313913485 354275 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever. < 1313913520 299368 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing that one's core, but what's that one supposed to be? I've never seen llvm so I guess it oculd be that < 1313913534 632582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cmm < 1313913538 771199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC's dialect of C-- < 1313913539 319588 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Cmm < 1313913549 874069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta hand it to them, they're dedicated :) < 1313913561 115878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me think I could truly write that malloc without consing < 1313913563 458146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell < 1313913566 955667 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Cmm the only flavour of C-- still alive? < 1313913578 630032 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite probably :P < 1313913595 260610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1313913599 14065 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... What. < 1313913603 413656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also probably the only flavour that was ever alive, ever. < 1313913605 851662 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313913610 33202 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You officially frighten me. < 1313913613 352373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That's not me. < 1313913618 592252 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, dur. < 1313913626 768524 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sannysanoff officially frightens me. < 1313913647 891691 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now that that storm's passed, back to trying to sleep. < 1313913654 236328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Hey, dude, I wanted to avoid all assembly beyond bootup in a Haskell OS by writing a memory allocator that didn't cons at all. < 1313913655 473162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pah :P < 1313913670 754524 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, elliott: Continue thinking about win conditions and barking at each other kthx :P < 1313913678 260388 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... Is that even doable? < 1313913682 280023 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is, ♥ < 1313913703 230642 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: space, conductor, electron head, electron tail, flag head, flag tail, death flag head, death flag tail, win flag head, win flag tail, base, flag geyser, electron geyser < 1313913720 852006 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no superimposing. < 1313913734 211894 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION . o O ( win conditions: 1) ring out 2) knock out 3) tap out )
< 1313913734 430158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I... think it might be. < 1313913737 580550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I still think yours is best. < 1313913750 497572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I dunno how thought-out it is though :P < 1313913770 363646 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) time out? < 1313913779 868882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I mean, you can make an Addr# pointing to anywhere you want. < 1313913808 933837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: So it's just a matter of using a lot of octothorpes to read and write to that, and using Int#s for EVERYTHING. < 1313913819 290890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even instead of Bools... although Bools might be OK since it's two static pointers, but I dunno how the RTS does it. < 1313913832 599750 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :electron + flag = death flag death flag + flag = win flag (or maybe you just win at that point, I don't know if the win flag is actually a good idea) < 1313913846 179050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The real question is, can the RTS start without a memory allocator? Or rather, with a memory allocator written in Haskell that thus requires the RTS? :P (Even though it probably doesn't REALLY require the RTS because it doesn't cons or anything.) < 1313913848 509452 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flag + flag = cancelled out < 1313913880 249883 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :once a death flaw always a death flag. any problems with this ruleset yet? < 1313913910 165155 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313913948 696099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Let's ping Gregor and find out < 1313913985 763900 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and flag electrons are slow (defined however you like) < 1313914052 337013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't work :P < 1313914058 972332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean flags are a kind of electron < 1313914078 455767 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still a few questionable areas. death flag + electron = ?? (you could either change it back to a normal flag, have it continue being a death flag, or fizzle out) death flag + death flag = space I'm assuming. < 1313914093 653596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, conductor I mean < 1313914094 822273 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not space. < 1313914120 345168 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the flags are just slow-moving electrons that do not interact with electrons in the same way as normal electrons. < 1313914225 656408 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you give me a better idea of why it won't work? < 1313914248 684495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, not paying attention :P < 1313914266 754594 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASSHOLE < 1313914301 656319 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you're paying even LESS attention than I am. < 1313914307 287129 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly that is an incredible feat. < 1313914381 248796 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the rules are consistent but it may make the win conditions more or less circumstance. < 1313914425 699653 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you take out the win flag. including a win flag adds new complications but makes the win conditions a little less sporadic) < 1313914474 838529 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313914477 29968 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-126.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1313915309 432278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1313915630 902326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: /msg < 1313916802 495193 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Obvious problem with my reading this further: my estimation of the size of Yudkowsky's ego grows with each passing sentence. < 1313916815 745634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quit while you're ahead < 1313916817 52285 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, the man's hit the ego singularity. < 1313916825 333170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean HARRY has < 1313916827 497979 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm just curious how far it goes. < 1313916841 499395 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's quite clearly self-insertion, that was obvious from the first chapter. < 1313916862 914824 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many autodidactic polymaths are there, exactly? < 1313916897 957979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few; there are thousands who think they're one < 1313916930 959667 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One sees my point. < 1313916942 131055 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/One sees/You see/ < 1313917015 577955 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, at this point I'm just curious to see how far the ego goes. < 1313917056 536039 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're already at the point of "Stallman seems humble> < 1313917091 569977 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanye West? < 1313917124 245895 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanye West does not think himself the Rational Human. < 1313917186 171165 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's to say he doesn't? < 1313917192 502610 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than Kanye West? < 1313917205 423964 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you have a sampling of his lyrical work that would suggest he does not view himself as a rational? < 1313917208 959973 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313917211 343171 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observation indicates Kanye does not, at least, act upon this belief. < 1313917218 752836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus spake @kanyewest, "Stay positive." < 1313917228 274473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: "Don't ever try to sell me on anything. Give me ALL the information and I'll make my own decisions." < 1313917230 434021 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothesis: _everything_ becomes absurd if taken to its logical conclusion. < 1313917233 282115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like some sort of support of rational belief. < 1313917241 455225 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :including reason. < 1313917242 839373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well taking that to its logical conclusion, _everything_ is absurd < 1313917247 42775 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas Eliezer runs an amazing, yet interesting, circlejerk. < 1313917268 975946 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, not everything, just that sentence. < 1313917271 589438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mick Jagger is crazy fresh" -- Kanye has discovered new meanings of the word "fresh" I was previously unaware of < 1313917272 893995 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst bit is, he obviously is actually quite intelligent. < 1313917289 442748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I didn't know Johnny Depp played guitar". The voice of a generation. < 1313917291 748966 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things don't care about logical conclusions, and so may avoid absurdity. < 1313917300 397882 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that harry potter fanfic's title alone gave me the death < 1313917305 715570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Be nice" thanks kanye < 1313917310 423915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stopping now < 1313917311 101482 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at least some of his egotism is the result of, well, probably being smarter than 99% of the people he's met. < 1313917416 187457 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eliezer Yudkowsky and the Methods of Megalomania < 1313917438 39212 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not so much "megalomania". < 1313917442 356051 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(title hereby released to the public domain) < 1313917459 407360 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...my client says that two of the previous devs had to learn C# for this project.... < 1313917465 448917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/FakeEliezer < 1313917471 226774 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of surprised it took them any appreciable amount of time. < 1313917486 268221 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he has an excessive belief in rationality and his own ability to produce it? < 1313917506 993286 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that pretty much straight in the definition of megalomania... < 1313917535 746433 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not excessive because it's PERFECTLY RATIONAL OKAY? < 1313917542 302365 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1313917588 943479 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually even assuming rationality _is_ objectively correct, i hypothesize he has an excessive belief in his own ability to discern it. < 1313917595 383462 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Okay, maybe it actually is megalomania. < 1313917610 763098 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, quite probably. < 1313917629 105959 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net TOPIC #esoteric :This umbrella works wonders for murdering! | software problems | Functor? I hardly knew 'er! | choking on a puzzle piece is like the consuming methanol of the alcohol abuse world | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1313917651 122218 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is tunes still shunned < 1313917664 599186 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask elliott, it's him doing the shunning < 1313917676 817280 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes, it's megalomania. < 1313917685 859830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Yes. < 1313917691 219203 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor tunes < 1313917696 208651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip tunes < 1313917713 146320 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read 38 fucking chapters of self-insert fanfiction. It's fucking megalomania, and his head is larger than the solar system. < 1313917726 809293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thirty-eight??? < 1313917729 745302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a saline drip, stat < 1313917737 924889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something really non-pretentious < 1313917742 786847 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many chapters are there < 1313917752 382140 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in total < 1313917752 666578 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :72. < 1313917756 444394 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1313917759 830034 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this guy apparently thinks I am somewhat good at this. < 1313917767 772579 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I've just been kind of bullshitting the whole time. < 1313917778 939583 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Who? < 1313917803 603207 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy who hired me to port his browser automator scripting engine thing over to linux. < 1313917825 781750 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which eventually turned into "rewrite this entire C# app in Python over the course of 3-4 months" < 1313917934 458209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, browser automator? < 1313917935 71083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1313917942 157578 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How can someone be this unhumble. < 1313917960 135665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it interprets scripts that automatically control a browser to do things. < 1313917962 434213 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And be a "rationalist". < 1313917982 563429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :h I've read 38 fucking chapters of self-insert fanfiction. It's fucking megalomania, and his head is larger than the solar system. <-- why did you read that < 1313917992 250078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, are you trying to go mad? < 1313917994 639179 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was at least interesting. < 1313918011 56510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, what for < 1313918014 905911 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few people write self-insert like actually intelligent people. < 1313918018 205410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this guy is full of himself, and I am totally captivated" < 1313918025 491398 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... With ego inflation up the wazoo. < 1313918032 414429 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: can't say. :P < 1313918036 941052 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: After about chapter 2. < 1313918037 886875 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://twitter.com/FakeEliezer <-- doesn't look very updated. < 1313918038 987165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how many Wolfram :P < 1313918045 137221 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: G < 1313918051 798828 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, G? < 1313918055 637556 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graham's number. < 1313918056 695249 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :G WOLFRAM???? MY GOD < 1313918058 131352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313918062 695238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, indeed < 1313918067 647832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite absurd < 1313918068 779716 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god too < 1313918077 7303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I thought 1 Wolfram was max < 1313918084 790041 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He broke the scale. < 1313918089 683605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1313918118 328806 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remind you, he is a "rationalist", and thinks anything notable of himself at all. < 1313918129 666847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what about A(G,G) Wolframs? < 1313918135 953348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : And be a "rationalist". <-- hypothesis, because everyone eventually confuses rationality with their own prejudices. i'm sure yudkowsky must have written something about it. < 1313918143 281879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "rationalist"? < 1313918146 387989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where A is the Ackermann-Peter function. < 1313918147 785691 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Almost certainly. < 1313918164 439808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, never heard "Peter" in the name of that function before < 1313918170 72463 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One who believes in rational thought above all else, basically. < 1313918178 896321 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original ackermann function took three arguments < 1313918187 707156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the revised one is called ackermann-peter < 1313918192 177233 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact. < 1313918207 916302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I guess in theory that is commendable. Can't see it happening in practise if the world still has humans in it < 1313918226 111436 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's also a singularitarian and a transhumanist. < 1313918228 907594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313918234 548905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313918239 113341 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's at least not suffering the *obvious* fault. :P < 1313918241 105880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains a bit < 1313918255 265455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1313918268 299657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :choking on a puzzle piece is like the consuming methanol of the alcohol abuse world | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1313918272 598856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy did it improperly. >:| < 1313918276 2399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so < 1313918276 610036 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :transhumanist = "yeah, I think having genetically and cybernetically engineered super powers would be pretty cool" < 1313918277 743659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1313918282 652858 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1313918283 653798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i write my memory allocator in consless haskell < 1313918286 476795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOUDL I DARE... < 1313918293 231186 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: He intends to make it happen. < 1313918299 271671 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOU NEED TO BE MORE SPECIFIC < 1313918299 628684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, of course, one could aruge that anything sentient precludes absolute rationality. Maybe. < 1313918301 254332 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shodule you darre < 1313918302 401245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we stop giving yudkowsky attention now < 1313918302 699311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1313918306 455769 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoudle < 1313918307 755481 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoulde < 1313918315 108889 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just seems to fail to apply the whole "humans are utterly irrational beings that are basically forcing their brainmeat to act sane at times" bit to himself. < 1313918318 789543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1313918322 507282 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan NICK :Lymee < 1313918323 332943 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're done. < 1313918357 609579 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I force my brainmeat into a comfortable state of vanilla wafer composition. < 1313918359 249384 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about this guy to understand but he sounds a bit obnoxious < 1313918362 661764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, got something against yudkowsky? < 1313918388 628371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, btw, fan-fic of what work originally? < 1313918390 227652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep, and I don't see anyone in here who hasn't < 1313918394 23097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :harry potter < 1313918448 422019 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I force my brainmeat to do things, you ask? < 1313918450 439698 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with brainmeat. < 1313918458 346293 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He looks like a dick < 1313918469 216865 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd punch him in the mouth < 1313918498 912380 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't punch people becuase i < 1313918505 816135 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-insert works a bit better with Harry Potter. It's already self-insert fiction. :P < 1313918509 414475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :punching people is not nice < 1313918511 130097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1313918551 384219 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;d never be able to punch people i don't think i'd be able to bring myself to do it under most circumstances < 1313918593 902582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i punched a puppy NOT TRUE FICTION NO COPYRIGHT INTENDED < 1313918594 56625 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may conjecture that I do not force my brain to anything but instead it merely transitions naturally between states as governed by physics. < 1313918606 810889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(CONTROVERSIAL YOUNG NOVEL) < 1313918625 223100 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: write your own fan fiction. < 1313918625 687805 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i my brain meats into a fist into your face < 1313918629 443125 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: homestuck < 1313918633 53702 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :homestuck fan fiction. < 1313918636 724639 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it. < 1313918637 247762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's < 1313918638 465267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough of that < 1313918639 781519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the world already < 1313918651 324448 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but none of it has an elliott self-insert. < 1313918659 270000 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should sleep. 'Tis 03:25.
< 1313918663 524710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. isn't that reassuring. < 1313918665 575450 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: NO PUN IN TEN DID < 1313918666 415410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or are you suggesting that you've ALREADY WRITTEN SOME!!!???!?!? < 1313918669 234633 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhehehehehehe homestuck < 1313918679 297708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hhehehehehehe homestuck" --monqy, intellectual and philosopher < 1313918679 720629 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's 5:25 < 1313918682 830204 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here < 1313918695 119497 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win the "should be aslympics" < 1313918704 676042 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here bro. < 1313918704 748683 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night i had a discussion about how wonderful it would be if homestuck didn't exist but the fandom still did < 1313918718 941708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy's adventures in things that are like the opposite of truth < 1313918721 527889 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: we are superimposed as one being the spectrum of timezone competitive sports. < 1313918736 455172 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/being the/being in the/ < 1313918758 890607 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The United Superposition of States < 1313918801 706872 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but then... I retire to slumber < 1313918805 758636 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the next version of the USSR is the USSSR < 1313918833 268811 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, sleep < 1313918942 174971 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sorry but homestuck just makes me think of wonderfully horrible things now < 1313919007 10837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i too equate things with their fandoms. you _don't_ want to know what my conception of Harry Potter's plot is, let me tell you. < 1313919023 765229 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWo2CU3KH_0 homestuck < 1313919045 274400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not even going to click that < 1313919052 717576 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing out < 1313919317 160835 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1313919343 651605 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way what is your conception of harry potter's plot < 1313919346 978358 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm curious < 1313919414 432715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was using something called sarcasm to make something called a point < 1313919440 325017 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats that help < 1313919452 888255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1313919490 632362 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wondermark.com/749/ < 1313919515 632167 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hat < 1313919980 343403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NihilistDandy: http://sprunge.us/CJNI < 1313920060 116152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313920092 514635 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(() -> Addr#)? what sort of trick is this < 1313920127 358021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: cant have top-level unlifted binding lol < 1313920203 989842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313920227 63083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1313920451 55408 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1313921424 342640 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1313922315 490075 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1313922714 255305 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1313923729 639480 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: halp < 1313923733 442735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: wat < 1313923759 749993 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am trying to rotate an image by half pi by moving the pixels < 1313923766 684266 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :image is a 1D array < 1313923771 644232 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want it in one line < 1313923805 910489 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :current line is ... < 1313923823 714392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotate :: Double -> Picture a -> Picture a < 1313923823 963415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotate r p = \(x :@ y) -> p (x*c - y*s :@ x*s + y*c) < 1313923824 36497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where !c = cos r < 1313923824 36690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : !s = sin r < 1313923826 799888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all i know dont hurt my family < 1313923833 612922 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :newbuff2[i]=newbuff[i%h*w+w-1-i/h]; < 1313923857 691516 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it SEEMS like it should work < 1313923870 678698 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :except hmm < 1313924005 570453 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1313924080 405776 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does work, when i remember to swap the width and height afterwards, ha < 1313924095 211434 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, fixing that made me realize another bug < 1313924104 236453 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1313924169 285048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I can't help but feel if you're good enough to do this there are actually useful things you could be doing :P < 1313924170 577464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :channel motto < 1313924536 105063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in here?! < 1313924597 714248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1313924601 783567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in hash-haskell < 1313924604 677164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313924610 881945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, still haven't fixed your keyboard < 1313924611 698942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#0 0x0000000000457ba0 in allocate () < 1313924611 770942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1313924612 63073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 0x0000000000448dde in rts_mkInt () < 1313924612 135109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 0x0000000000402f71 in main () < 1313924612 714281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1313924622 894355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe I'll upgrade to Lion on MY BIRTHDAY < 1313924637 373810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, congrats on that backtrace if it crashed there < 1313924649 790751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1313924652 767417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why upgrade < 1313924661 477852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that a separate issue from the keyboard < 1313924667 865547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta send it to Apple < 1313924669 191869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So gotta wipe it < 1313924671 112761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If gotta wipe it < 1313924674 673681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want to upgrade for clean slate < 1313924678 245934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I get something useful out of it < 1313924681 286506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It = wiping it) < 1313924692 300389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1313924759 586637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, congrats on that backtrace if it crashed there < 1313924762 533293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not hard with what I'm doing < 1313924787 497849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually what I want is a segfault, but not the segfault I'm getting < 1313924837 814405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Guess who gets to read Cmm code! It's me! < 1313924963 129708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HaskellObj < 1313924963 296888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rts_apply (Capability *cap, HaskellObj f, HaskellObj arg) < 1313924963 368455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1313924963 368657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : StgThunk *ap; < 1313924963 368763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ap = (StgThunk *)allocate(cap,sizeofW(StgThunk) + 2); < 1313924964 225536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SET_HDR(ap, (StgInfoTable *)&stg_ap_2_upd_info, CCS_SYSTEM); < 1313924966 144442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ap->payload[0] = f; < 1313924968 414089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ap->payload[1] = arg; < 1313924970 362479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (StgClosure *)ap; < 1313924972 453619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1313924974 102238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGH < 1313925117 675851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#0 0x0000000000457bb0 in allocate () < 1313925118 61405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 0x00000000004503d8 in createThread () < 1313925118 133102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 0x0000000000448af9 in createGenThread () < 1313925118 133250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#3 0x0000000000448b82 in rts_eval () < 1313925118 133358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#4 0x0000000000402f94 in main () < 1313925118 763068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD < 1313925137 82895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: All these fuckin' allocations! < 1313925165 143177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually what I want is a segfault, but not the segfault I'm getting <-- why < 1313925189 520196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, why shouldn't creating a thread allocate stuff? < 1313925196 965056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also what made you resort to gdb < 1313925200 308981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because I need 0 allocations. < 1313925206 841006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious. You are a known GDB hater < 1313925208 147066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's always gonna be gdb, I'm fucking around with the RTS. < 1313925215 13796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1313925218 719748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only way to distinguish the _|_s that are segfaults from one another :P < 1313925220 812505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you need 0 allocations < 1313925226 923896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://hpaste.org/50517 < 1313925230 378268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope this answers your question < 1313925254 131620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know enough of the internals of haskell to understand that < 1313925267 223570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can read C code, so you can read that < 1313925270 564182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ignore the octothorpes < 1313925278 633053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the what? < 1313925284 342443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1313925286 544213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313925303 27645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :topAddrAddr# is just NULL + 424242 with a dummy function around it < 1313925309 455691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :topAddr and writeTopAddr just read and write it < 1313925315 765847 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is an Addr# ? < 1313925318 574051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :primAllocBytes# should not be hard to understand, just ignore the threading of rw < 1313925319 849624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw pointer? < 1313925322 314846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1313925329 638916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, WHY DOES HASKELL EVEN ALLOW THIS!? < 1313925334 656986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't, GHC does < 1313925343 119813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay why does GHC even allow it < 1313925344 272835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This code is so ludicrously nonportable in every way < 1313925348 319592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Internal use < 1313925361 615603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313925379 797524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why 424242 < 1313925385 581413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recognisable in Core < 1313925397 205716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/browser/compiler/utils/Encoding.hs Take a look at utf8DecodeChar# < 1313925403 602588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO BEAUTIFUL < 1313925418 667213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done like that for performance reasons :P < 1313925426 152336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew yeah < 1313925434 469289 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many #s < 1313925436 426974 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to kill myself < 1313925457 323596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, why `plusAddr#`, why not make Addr# implement Num? < 1313925459 454047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1313925461 504500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1313925477 77950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Firstly, because Num wants an * < 1313925480 876564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Addr# is a # < 1313925483 42844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kinds) < 1313925485 168254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313925487 616970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secondly, because look at the signature < 1313925493 447700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You add an Int# to an Addr# < 1313925501 869615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1313925504 717037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t plusAddr# < 1313925505 304820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `plusAddr#' < 1313925508 339996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1313925536 123281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.3/html/libraries/ghc-prim-0.2.0.0/GHC-Prim.html < 1313925554 908168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so you are basically trying to do sbrk() in haskell? < 1313925557 143567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I right? < 1313925561 155093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Misc < 1313925561 257755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :These aren't nearly as wired in as Etc..." < 1313925567 84072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's malloc, it's just a really shitty malloc. < 1313925571 655260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, sbrk is basically how it works. < 1313925577 693743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is to run that on the bare metal. < 1313925590 388087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the pesky RTS trying to allocate in the process of calling it is not a helpful situation. < 1313925597 191200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, then don't be surprised if it fails spectacularly when hosted < 1313925613 802119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS, it's meant to segfault when it writes to the bullshit constant address < 1313925631 947784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crashing when the RTS tries to allocate because I passed a null pointer for the RTS capability structure will not go any differently on the bare metal < 1313925658 118249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the misc/etc thing. I would say that etc is more common. It has god damn seq after all < 1313925684 782134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, seq is pretty magic... < 1313925693 486778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are wrapped later on < 1313925697 326271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.0.3/html/libraries/ghc-prim-0.2.0.0/src/GHC-Prim.html#seq < 1313925699 949945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does traceCcs# do? < 1313925703 880615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice dummy implementation for haddock docs < 1313925708 912833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the actual seq you use that's in GHC.Prim < 1313925711 615307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fucked if I know < 1313925715 556962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably some debugging thing < 1313925741 960294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, according to that file. traceCcs# and seq are the same. Is this file a dummy file? < 1313925752 667903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah must be < 1313925758 415228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Notice dummy implementation for haddock docs < 1313925764 789578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's generated < 1313925766 952406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1313925770 208044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed that line < 1313925786 360905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why let and now where? < 1313925788 563411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capability * < 1313925790 736820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rts_eval (Capability *cap, HaskellObj p, /*out*/HaskellObj *ret) < 1313925790 809162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1313925790 809335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : StgTSO *tso; < 1313925790 809446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1313925790 809548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : tso = createGenThread(cap, RtsFlags.GcFlags.initialStkSize, p); < 1313925791 421098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return scheduleWaitThread(tso,ret,cap); < 1313925795 357873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1313925797 566729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urrrrgh < 1313925799 419421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What? < 1313925805 473457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :let x = x in x < 1313925811 807772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a dummy implementation < 1313925817 506292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1313925822 73062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just put there by the script, the only time the file is ever used is to generate the Haddock docks < 1313925823 138122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :docs < 1313925867 33047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway the RTS will have to allocate a bit for creating thread and so on. The memory must come from *somewhere* < 1313925871 834915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1313925896 547690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So don't do it by a thread < 1313925904 478660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I want as close to jumping in directly to the closure as possible < 1313925951 350644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1313925970 784693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you will need to patch ghc for that < 1313925974 640370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1313926013 908601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ever played oblivion btw? < 1313926079 814006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Should I? < 1313926101 292019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah. I was wondering about opinions < 1313926103 248670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is okay < 1313926148 252006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, open world rpg, great scenery, a bit dated graphics by now, it is showing it's age. But my main issue with it is the bad voice acting. There is no flavour to it. < 1313926167 725722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but huge open world, have to give it credits for that < 1313926169 385612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know at least some of the NPCs and plot thanks to Prequel :P < 1313926174 388825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313926210 470734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, the voice acting is terribly flat. No emotion in it. No flavour. I'd say no voice acting would be an improvement < 1313926231 595917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :voices suck, also humans suck, have I mentioned Elliottcraft contains 0 humans? < 1313926234 22444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fucking humans. or voies. < 1313926236 147207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NWN1 had good, if incomplete, voice acting. Witcher 2 has really really good voice acting. < 1313926242 490357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, different type of game :P < 1313926251 893420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :superior type of game < 1313926261 746267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"incomplete"? < 1313926263 410270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :were some lines just silent < 1313926263 886335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, besides what about elves, dwarves, orcs and so on < 1313926271 686303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some NPCs were not voiced < 1313926285 927381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only like the main NPCs were < 1313926317 626100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elves are humans, dwarves are humans, orcs are stupid humans < 1313926329 64193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, lizardmen? < 1313926333 878910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"men" < 1313926341 652167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1313926345 684458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, talking dragons? < 1313926381 159763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the copious amount of dialogue in NWN1 the lack of voice acting was probably required to make the game fit on a CD or whatever it came on, I don't remember. < 1313926396 537289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it came on 2 CDs or such < 1313926408 857605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I would accept a game where every character is a talking dragon. < 1313926420 478762 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1313926428 608063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even kidding i would play the fuck out of that < 1313926431 217848 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, play Spyro The Dragon for the PSX < 1313926432 988197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if it's never brought up ever < 1313926436 433832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, witcher 2 has supreme voice acting. If you like RPGs then it is a must. < 1313926439 230350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: touche < 1313926451 90655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't like rpgs... except maybe pokemon, but i doubt witcher is that grindy < 1313926452 613038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for lots of other reasons than voice acting of course < 1313926461 905486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed it is plot driven. < 1313926471 851374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed,* < 1313926491 308918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/149036-thewitcher.jpg uglier than elliottcraft < 1313926501 454066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw "Prequel" you mentioned above, what/who is that? < 1313926501 803375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just make all the elliottcraft bloocks shit rainbows < 1313926504 14253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is every colour < 1313926525 461714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is not max settings in that screenshot. Besides it is low res. < 1313926528 260633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a comic in roughly the same format as MSPA set in Oblivion < 1313926530 795599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://prequeladventure.com/2011/03/prequel-begin/ < 1313926541 89846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313926588 489693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, set as a prequel, I guess < 1313926592 222113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it count as in if it's before? < 1313926598 382030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep ontological questions < 1313926598 983039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh another thing in oblivion: character face look on NPCs is terribly plain. Too even. < 1313926617 834374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw a screenshot of the catpeople, they're scary < 1313926630 424914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah. But I meant human and elf faces. Too flat. < 1313926642 94259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh quill-weave is more terrifying though < 1313926650 729551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not familiar with that < 1313926655 948229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110621230405/elderscrolls/images/4/45/Quill-Weave_1.jpg < 1313926682 505608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(compare http://prequeladventure.com/this/story278.gif) < 1313926697 645002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the witcher screenshot was terribly jpeg compressed too < 1313926706 22189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im unfair to witcher :( < 1313926746 383391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw witcher 2 graphics, it works better when playing it or in a video than in a screenshot. You won't see effects like motion blur or swaying grass in a still image. Yogscast did partial play-through of the game some time ago. Check out the graphics from there IMO. < 1313926772 815159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm nocookie.net? < 1313926779 92366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me < 1313926803 563535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I don't see how any game could have better graphics than Elliottcraft :) < 1313926805 699701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the game screenshot one is scarier < 1313926813 57031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant < 1313926815 735854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popping the stack, < 1313926817 892698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is that. Will your have smooth terrain < 1313926829 467054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do YOU know another game with dirt that looks different depending on the precise value of its moisture???? < 1313926840 435339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different in a way other than being tinted slightly :P < 1313926855 435826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is not quite the same as having awesome dynamic light and shadows :P < 1313926866 676257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I considered joining corners up at one point, but I think the block model is nicer... I'm still open to arbitrary subdivision of blocks or smaller-than-minecraft blocks < 1313926920 307208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, depends on your goals < 1313926928 274410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best game < 1313926937 567759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which genre < 1313926949 440029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only relevant genre, Elliottcraft < 1313926960 116535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh < 1313926965 446411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based around utter hostility to all people that aren't me < 1313926973 829133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might die your first three hundred days < 1313927010 859153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'll turn on peaceful < 1313927053 800675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that minecraft is fun, but not for fighting in. It is fun to build in. If I want to fight I start an RPG and get a MUCH better fighting experience < 1313927071 715295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said anything about fighting? < 1313927113 860960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, feel free to build, but you'd better make sure it's structurally sound -- don't want that thing to topple over and all your blocks turned into worthless rubble that you have to melt-down and re-cast, mm? < 1313927131 304159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might even have to steal a furnace. < 1313927334 193320 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliotcraft will have DF style structural integrity testing? < 1313927355 659161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so much structural integrity testing, it's just... things won't stay up if you build them like an idiot. < 1313927364 605346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unlike DF a one by one tower won't be enough to keep them up. < 1313927375 338909 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do you call it if not structural integrity testing? < 1313927388 945327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, that makes it sound like it's a separate step to me. < 1313927396 594184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like calling gravity "floating violation testing". < 1313927408 989585 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you prefer 'block physics' < 1313927410 366689 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1313927442 25914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well obviously I have _that_ :-) < 1313927614 980957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "We're talking about Oblivion here; where faces and melted candles are indistinguishable from one another." < 1313927654 845548 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will elliotcraft's circuitry be like < 1313927713 540130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Two "t"s.) I'm not sure. Possibly hideously complex. < 1313927725 38407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe bluestone :-P (Phantom_Hoover) < 1313927738 788727 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :More complex than redstone? < 1313927747 424609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redstone is dirt simple < 1313927752 153469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: "We're talking about Oblivion here; where faces and melted candles are indistinguishable from one another." <-- yep < 1313927753 60282 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has lots of edgecases < 1313927755 562007 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's tricky to use < 1313927756 61332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, more interesting, certainly. < 1313927756 134956 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1313927759 955262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tricky to use because it's simple < 1313927760 306422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where is the quote from < 1313927760 811581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nicer to use. < 1313927774 426263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Prequel SA thread < 1313927794 699625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw it allows you to customize a lot about your look. Even the size, position, and colour of your eyebrows. < 1313927812 867568 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my guess is that all face textures are procedural in oblivion, and that is why they are flat. < 1313927889 698258 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some nice addons to the restone system in MC that you could steal < 1313927893 727382 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like insulated wiring < 1313927946 495730 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The land of Oblivion, where the paint brushes float. < 1313928354 178213 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1313928518 602826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313928750 366807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1313928892 210022 :Lymia_!~moe@adsl-68-95-249-36.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313928902 624443 :Lymia_!~moe@adsl-68-95-249-36.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1313928902 696442 :Lymia_!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1313928938 378608 :Lymia_!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan NICK :Lymia < 1313929057 155714 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i just had another of my ideas < 1313929076 439490 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i call it the 125 number system < 1313929102 818317 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1313929950 334114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : The land of Oblivion, where the paint brushes float. <-- you played it? < 1313929960 947241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell do you swim. Can't figure it out. < 1313930063 919990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: I played it a little bit. <- yesterday or so. < 1313930072 319242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah. < 1313930084 528505 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember doing swimming, but now how to do it. < 1313930084 921811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so 1) how do you swim 2) where do you sell stolen items < 1313930119 610329 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you join the Thieves Guild, their fences will let you use their services. < 1313930153 7265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and how/where do I join that. And are there any options if I don't join that < 1313930247 432550 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to UESPWiki, Thieves Guild fences, one of the Dark Brotherhood Murderers, and Mannheim Maulhand at the Inn of Ill Omen, accept stolen goods. < 1313930266 136640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah interesting. Now to find "Inn of Ill Omen" < 1313930293 657799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on the Green Road between the Imperial City and Bravil (quest-related). It is just along the road from the Faregyl Inn. < 1313930293 823629 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The publican, Manheim Maulhand, buys potions and food whilst only selling the latter. In addition, he will also buy your stolen goods, even if you aren't part of the Thieves Guild. This, however, is only useful after you have reached the Mercantile skill perks that allow you to barter anything with him and invest in him." < 1313930324 918258 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably join the guild with not much ill effects and then just ignore their questline. < 1313930469 709997 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few options for joining, but the most straight-forward one (the one I think I stumbled by accident) was to read one of the "wanted" posters of Gray Fox in the city, then talk about that topic with people. < 1313930779 19825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm. I'm confused about the skills in this game. It seems you level up them independently? No global level thingy like many other games? < 1313931007 394328 :Lymia_!~moe@adsl-68-95-249-36.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313931053 546128 :Lymia_!~moe@adsl-68-95-249-36.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1313931053 618652 :Lymia_!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1313931055 321763 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1313931057 83371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm he isn't buying my stolen stuff. Must be wrong category of items < 1313931059 184272 :Lymia_!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan NICK :Lymia < 1313931080 72262 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Playing Oblivion, are we? < 1313931190 697121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes. You played it? < 1313931201 232257 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how the hell do I swim? < 1313931213 69315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just sink and walk on the bottom when I try < 1313931216 693064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried Morrowind, but failed due to Wine not working for some reason. < 1313931221 713518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313931224 716443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that's not how you swim? < 1313931244 410627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how _I_ swim. < 1313931265 849010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how do I swim then < 1313931302 601261 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you walk around on the bottom of the water, same as everyone else. < 1313931313 222941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ... < 1313931324 327284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so why does the athletics skill mention swimming? < 1313931350 820063 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten completely. I suppose you tried the jump key though? < 1313931355 658321 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be the most logical choice. < 1313931380 494115 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or just looking upwards and trying to move forward. < 1313931402 100869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re < 1313931406 680246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm didn't work with e before. Let me try again. Could it be heavy armour? < 1313931426 315321 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, weight is a factor. < 1313931442 538560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1313931489 499841 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a quest (Mages Guild one maybe?) where they ask you to fetch a ring from the bottom of a well; but the ring is an "add few hundred stones of weight" ring, and it's a trick they play on you. < 1313931494 496453 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you drown. < 1313931496 234697 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually. < 1313931505 107097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1313931511 85228 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's a dic kmove < 1313931554 26793 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Cheydinhal_Recommendation < 1313931611 24281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch < 1313931625 170525 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It does not actually use a Burden enchantment, it just has its weight set very high." Yeah, it weighs 150 units. < 1313931642 77976 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made out of some ultra-dense matter, I suppose. < 1313931646 343746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, is there like any storage chest you could use. Buy an apartment or whatever or such. Or can I expect items to remain where they are if I drop them somewhere? < 1313931831 785402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway jumping didn't work, and I switcher to light armour < 1313931861 206975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, light armour and looking up works < 1313931862 251857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1313931893 138713 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can buy houses, and some questlines have you receiving places at the end of them. < 1313931909 505550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah. Are horses worth it btw? < 1313931920 531460 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never bothered. < 1313931924 294123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to get a lot of gold from a panaroid madman < 1313931936 447836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1313931990 40539 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most chests are unsafe, but some (mostly quest-related, and then the bought houses) are safe: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Containers#Safe_Containers < 1313931996 924997 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinnur time now. < 1313932002 350154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I.e. awaysh.) < 1313932055 838919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I'll use the chest in Weynon Priory for now < 1313932567 225668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I like the scale of oblivion. The distances seems somewhat (though not completely) realistic. Unlike a lot of other games. < 1313932787 662748 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, CakeProphet: All your ideas are terrible :P < 1313932799 757879 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-214-186.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313932805 569040 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-201-115.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1313932823 944017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I didn't give any more ideas :) < 1313932825 1614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was SMRT. < 1313932832 62313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm waiting for your master idea :P < 1313932858 773871 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing my grotty inelegant base+geyser mechanism :( < 1313932870 401696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's grotty and inelegant? < 1313932876 689989 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, I feel like it is :P < 1313932877 332242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I assumed things worked originally < 1313932884 131691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your geyser is your power socket < 1313932889 52915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The base is, like, a short-circuiter < 1313932890 651401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes perfect sense < 1313932904 990402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though possibly not for those reasons < 1313932996 829579 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My kitten needs mittens so she can STOP CLAWING THE FUCK OUT OF ME < 1313933054 677256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313933123 103111 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kitten mittens for sittin' < 1313933238 71186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1313933242 456465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1313933371 679999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getViewBytes :: Get (Vector Word8) < 1313933371 846467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getViewBytes = do < 1313933371 918944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bytes <- getBytes viewSize < 1313933371 919102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let (ptr, offs, len) = BI.toForeignPtr bytes < 1313933371 919211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return $ V.unsafeFromForeignPtr ptr offs len < 1313933372 641914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getView :: Get (Vector Cell) < 1313933374 668341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getView = V.unsafeCast <$> getViewBytes < 1313933377 748078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sits back, waits for ais523's death by shock
< 1313933388 595984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BI there stands for Data.ByteString.Internals by the way :P < 1313933390 789259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wasn't looking < 1313933395 45236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, Internal. < 1313933400 848530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I've seen that sentence, I haven't looked just in case < 1313933402 386911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I? < 1313933408 388886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you can stand ... the heat. < 1313933414 199619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1313933432 145515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that is indeed insane < 1313933444 243767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bows.
< 1313933452 184534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure is fast though :P < 1313933453 785004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind is refusing to work out what it actually does, other than a line-by-line translation of the individual lines < 1313933468 375417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that some sort of type punning via unions/reinterpreting byte sequences, in Haskell? < 1313933504 915041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reads viewSize worth of bytes as a ByteString, gets the underlying ForeignPtr storage (plus the offset into it and the length -- ByteString does efficient slicing this way), and creates an immutable Vector out of it < 1313933514 637098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unsafely, because you could twiddle the ForeignPtr after and change an immutable value) < 1313933531 181352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it then casts the vector to have another element type which conveniently has the same Storable representation < 1313933564 43143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta do these kinds of things when your program has to read, parse, and make a decision based on that information in 0.06 seconds < 1313933578 514640 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There are some places where you can get inside the cities/towns from the "overworld" (jumping above the walls); if you manage that, you'll find out that they are just cheap low-resolution props, with clip-through walls. < 1313933593 473720 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1313933634 544441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apart from that little performance trick, though, the whole program is not as bad as you might expect :P < 1313933667 39940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, TAEB uses the same trick < 1313933667 986889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch < 1313933672 337107 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also the same the other way around: if you climb out of a city without using a gate, you'll just fall through the ground and fall forever. < 1313933675 5248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's done purely in Perl, so not quite as bad < 1313933686 658093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, really? how? < 1313933688 524581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a comment next to it commenting on how ugly it is, but it speeds it up 30% < 1313933694 958482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that sucks badly. < 1313933698 547621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, it just breaks encapsulation of the way Moose actually stores objects < 1313933711 881157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those unsafe calls are actually totally safe in the context of what I'm doing, thankfully < 1313933713 360430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead of going via accessors to access tiles, it just does a sequence of dereference operations < 1313933719 278295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just avoid needlessly reconstructing the same representation < 1313933720 168891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1313933726 679841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Moose is hideously slow, isn't it? < 1313933729 201806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think compile pretty much directly into C < 1313933746 161900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moose is relatively bad, although it's getting better, it does all sorts of ridiculous speed tricks < 1313933748 231587 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was a complaint occasionally made, given that in Morrowind there's just the one world with no nasty transitions. < 1313933754 722909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1313933789 67300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the etymology of the phrase "clip through"? < 1313933799 347648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known what it meant for ages, but am not sure why it means that < 1313933837 363168 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IDNOCLIP from Doom 2?-) (Though I suppose in reality the usage predates that.) < 1313933850 541360 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDSPISPOPD < 1313933851 579175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any procedure which identifies that portion of a picture which is either inside or outside a picture is referred to as a clipping algorithm or clipping. < 1313933851 744983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The region against which an object is to be clipped is called clipping window. < 1313933860 887798 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrugs < 1313933865 387150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to the use of the term 'no clipping' to refer to turning off collision detection, the two are often confused. < 1313933867 259231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no origin :( < 1313933869 657234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so the engine was using its clipping algorithm to calculate collisions? < 1313933889 105327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you turned off clipping to be able to walk through walls, as it turned off collisions as a side effect < 1313933891 391368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make sense < 1313933916 123117 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only they released the source code to doom, obsessive anoraks could grok these answers. < 1313933921 360713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh, that seems to be extrapolating quite heavily from what elliott said < 1313933931 38706 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :doom's been cloned at least twice < 1313933934 168356 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think people know how it works < 1313933943 232518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's an educated guess, based on what I know and what's been said in the channel < 1313933950 500324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite the same thing as extrapolation < 1313933952 583159 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not being sarcastic... something else < 1313933955 962557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... induction, or something < 1313933970 666007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah < 1313933979 429167 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of "emphasis through sarcasm" < 1313933984 588773 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrugs < 1313933989 330824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That, or just general association with "no use of that thing which causes the player to be 'clipped' to stay within the allowed region". < 1313934009 661443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I find it hard to imagine a non-convex clipping region < 1313934013 872029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, non-simple < 1313934029 54614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the sense that I expect clipping regions to be topologically equivalent to a circle/sphere) < 1313934037 605358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why, there's no inherent reason why they should work like that < 1313934063 347196 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because it's harder to cut holes in the middle of the paper, as opposed to just whittling down the edges. < 1313934084 503445 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is non-convex like with a dent in it? < 1313934101 340917 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pacman? < 1313934147 936354 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are clipping algorithms for concave polygons and clipping regions < 1313934160 767414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: indeed < 1313934179 390645 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more complicated because it can return multiply polygon pieces when given one polygon < 1313934266 228122 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVG lets you clip with any path, text, or basic shape. < 1313934278 463091 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define a clipping region out of -text-?!? < 1313934279 62769 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1313934287 856300 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or clip text? < 1313934295 406803 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former. < 1313934309 246634 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The clip-path property of anything can refer to a text object. < 1313934318 79277 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trippy < 1313934376 879222 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (presumably more efficiently implemented" 'clip' property can only be a rectangle, though. < 1313934384 382831 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"/)/ < 1313934417 334303 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is svg guaranteed to look the same no matter what the implementation is, like most of opengl's features? < 1313934473 194959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you meet someone on a sidewalk, which side do you try to pass them on? < 1313934482 505291 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep left < 1313934487 820312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: over < 1313934490 783491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, living in a left or right hand drive country? < 1313934494 149620 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :left < 1313934496 435078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1313934503 634655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sometimes through < 1313934527 144003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I pick a side according to where they and I are relative to each other < 1313934528 104907 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fourth dimension collision resolution mechanisms I resort to do not have words in your english language! < 1313934545 700514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the easiest way to avoid collisions < 1313934555 725070 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, bases + flag geysers *grumble mumble* < 1313934559 562092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, do people usually pass on the left on sidewalks there? In Sweden, which is right hand drive, it is quite common that one person try to pass on the left and the other on the right. Leading to some swaying back and forth < 1313934561 394953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the sidewalks/pavements in the UK are typically on both sides of the road, so there's the added complication that we might be on either side of the road < 1313934567 882976 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, almost always left < 1313934571 270898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1313934598 902013 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: That would I guess be the ideal, but I'm not sure how close it gets. It's not like OpenGL would guarantee you anything about cases involving floating-point rounding, either. < 1313934602 444584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well of course, but lets say it is a narrow enough sidewalk, not a broad one where 10 people could walk side by side. < 1313934623 946728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when walking along a road without pavements, the convention (it's enforced by the Highway Code, which isn't a law but if you don't follow it anything bad that happens is your fault by default) is that you walk on the right-hand side of the road, so there's no issue with passing other pedestrians because they're on the other side of the road already < 1313934627 477015 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating point rounding is a bitch, but isn't it consistent across different implementations? < 1313934636 103563 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly not across different math libraries < 1313934648 846252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: with enough room for two side-by-side, which is more or less universal, you pick whatever side you happen to be on relative to the other person, in the UK < 1313934659 42064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's unclear, you guess and move that way a long time in advance, so the other person moves the other way < 1313934692 199851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules for pedestrian passing bicycle are more interesting, partly because they're completely different between the UK and Canada and I almost got run over as a result < 1313934715 466255 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Here it's the left side of the road, using the justification that then the lane immediately next to you (right-hand-side drive here) is the one where the approaching cars will come from the front, so you will notice them more easily; as opposed to walking on the right side and having a car surprise you from behind. < 1313934735 550151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think it's the same reasoning in the UK, just mirror-reversed < 1313934799 288712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and if you happen to be on a exact collision course? < 1313934802 960977 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Feel free to pull < 1313934815 771399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can't tell that's going to happen, so you guess < 1313934825 650546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a 50% chance the two people make the same guess, and the situation resolves itself < 1313934833 999634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 50% chance you don't, in which case try again < 1313934854 98521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But it'll break my code :P < 1313934855 404398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the odds are more favourable than that, because the two people probably won't guess at exactly the same time < 1313934866 478680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first person can observe the second person moving and choose the correct side as a result < 1313934935 911286 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I don't think OpenGL defines the order of operations in e.g. matrix multiplication -- I mean, you'd want to leave room for optimization in the implementations -- and for example I'd assume something like z-fighting is allowed to look different on different display cards. < 1313934975 155443 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if matrix multiplication didn't have an order of operations, you'd have no guarantees as to which order your translates, rotates and so on were used in < 1313934978 810373 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad example I think < 1313934993 610664 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I mean the individual operations involved in multiplying two matrices. < 1313935013 181019 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they define which side of the multiplication which matrix is on. < 1313935023 927316 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see - you're saying that depending on what order you do it in it might incur floating point errors differently < 1313935029 255632 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it will. < 1313935079 288647 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://glprogramming.com/red/appendixh.html < 1313935101 219554 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a "multiply two matrices" exercise in one "object-oriented programming course", and the automated exercise checker was using stringwise comparisons with no tolerance for error. < 1313935111 424991 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1313935113 106175 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you had to get your floating-point errors in the same order as whoever made the model solution. < 1313935114 561671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did you report that issue? < 1313935123 407848 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, I think it got fixed. < 1313935127 527069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :goofd < 1313935129 55039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good* < 1313935140 708868 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was especially aggravating since the exercise checker in question featured a tolerance option out-of-the-box. < 1313935178 244826 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "not a pixel-exact specification". Sounds reasonable; I mean, it's usually more about speed than exactness. < 1313935243 175712 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, my flag rules are borked >_< < 1313935245 223884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs only started doing exact floating-point recently < 1313935255 765793 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flags CAN move lightspeed ._. < 1313935349 68225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help why am i sixteen in hours who made this mistake........ < 1313935352 102510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is responsible < 1313935366 359359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im having fifth-life crisis < 1313935378 645432 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't IEEE ad a "half-precision" (16-bit) float format to IEEE 754 recent-ishly, after it was used so widely in the graphics world? < 1313935383 420173 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ad/add/ < 1313935384 298538 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're about to be 16? < 1313935402 487650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's a thing about to occur. < 1313935415 327093 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang I'm jealous < 1313935418 359217 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 20 and a half -.- < 1313935442 34244 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 = old geezer in internet years < 1313935450 851318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey you're triple old geyser < 1313935451 989607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :flag geyser < 1313935453 42276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: < 1313935454 221087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1313935455 8123 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't worry, you'll die by the time you're 32. < 1313935456 347032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :making everything relevant < 1313935463 875453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to everything else... also I can't type right now :/ < 1313935473 756721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK, who stored my age in an unsigned five-bit integer? < 1313935475 121236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it you? < 1313935489 517266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to blame _someone_. < 1313935490 202377 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was actually a signed six-bit integer. < 1313935505 409416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1313935506 267427 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :One 6502-or-Z80-I-forget-which C compiler supported an 8-bit float format, I think. < 1313935508 190662 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he'll turn -32. < 1313935522 854031 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he'll die. < 1313935555 877942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that always happen to me? < 1313935557 105538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dying, I mean. < 1313935570 606909 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You deserve it. < 1313935581 703467 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was a song that said that. < 1313935587 279947 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, 8 bit float? < 1313935590 894181 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a shitty idea I came up with once < 1313935595 300265 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dropped when I realized how shit its precision was < 1313935598 837813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Thanks for the CTCPs < 1313935602 263581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd lost them < 1313935605 971391 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The flag can form a surrogate tail for an electron, because its rules are basically identical to a tail >_> < 1313935630 332251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D < 1313935636 726856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Goes along for the ride < 1313935655 760551 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: THIS GAME SUX :P < 1313935661 900487 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minifloat has a one-byte example, but doesn't list any notable use cases. I thought it might've been the CC65 compiler, but it's not. < 1313935663 45052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :( < 1313935666 260173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or do you just mean this revision < 1313935670 893225 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean this revision < 1313935675 906933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good :P < 1313935682 757232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I still like the idea of flags hitching a ride, though. < 1313935692 879238 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't like the idea of lightspeed flags >_> < 1313935711 792071 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although of all the means of creating lightspeed flags, this is arguably the least offensive) < 1313935728 867435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just make a flag in tail position do something bad? < 1313935731 692036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like turn the electron into a flag. < 1313935756 89006 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The electron DOES turn into a flag. Just like it WOULD turn into a tail. Hence "surrogate tail" < 1313935795 196903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, what I mean is, no electron moves forward :P < 1313935825 340375 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can't accomplish that without increasing neighborhood size. < 1313935869 721601 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, I suppose, the electron could turn into a tail instead of a flag if there's any open conductor around it ... < 1313935876 276240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, good :P < 1313935879 419014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOGIC < 1313935891 314820 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also means you can't duplicate flags ... < 1313935908 836238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good? < 1313935916 66786 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1313935921 487375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have two routes, one might be fast, one might be slow, you don't know which < 1313935924 636560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just send the opponent's flag along both < 1313935926 425757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best of both worlds < 1313935927 818065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sux < 1313936020 336125 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, you can't (easily) do that. < 1313936038 581954 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually you can do that, just not by duplication, you have to divide and conquer) < 1313936039 972270 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponent_bias Isn't the most significant place going to have the sign bit anyway? < 1313936130 801090 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: What do you mean "anyway"? This isn't a two's-complement integer, in principle they could put it anywhere. < 1313936193 622227 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: There's a sign bit for the value itself, but the exponent is logically speaking an unsigned integer, with that bias added. < 1313936195 644567 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, actually, it would be hard NOT to get the right effect with two branching routes, even without duplication. < 1313936205 527721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fair enough :P < 1313936219 486773 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you just send electrons along both routes that don't interfere with one another, I think it'll work. < 1313936239 488249 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Note that it has a range of e.g. -126 .. +127 and not -127 .. +126, which is what you'd get by treating the exponent as an equally-wide two's-complement signed integer. < 1313936248 782940 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohnowait, because once they merge they're pulling, so it'll just be a synchronization issue which gets the flag >_> < 1313936250 922099 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313936283 977608 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-214-186.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1313936325 122267 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ohwait, there's a simpler rule to get what I want; for an electron to turn into a flag, it must first have a tail. < 1313936368 832319 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: And there's also that ordering-when-treated-as-an-integer guarantee. That probably wouldn't work for a regular signed binary exponent. < 1313936398 356581 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it now < 1313936422 262596 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-24.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313936564 64161 :Lymia!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Quit: Huggles for everybody~�� ^_^ < 1313936615 579437 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yup, that rule works :) < 1313936632 393177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Woo < 1313936694 157688 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only caveat I can see is that if you have tailless electrons next to flags, then BOTH dissipate. Which may be good or bad, but it's unexpected. < 1313936773 208245 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Amongst the implications of this fact is that if you have a double-wire, flags will ALWAYS dissipate along it) < 1313936815 751707 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, that is, at the meeting of a single->double. I suppose if you had a double right up to the geyser, it'd work *shrugs* < 1313936942 337391 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not related to anything, but in either Morrowind or Oblivion (I think Morrowind) I got my dude stuck in a piece of wall after jumping at it funnily, and he was *really* stuck. Some console commands finally got him extracted from that wall. < 1313936959 45663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh there are console commands? heh < 1313937002 564255 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bound to the standard key: where ~ is in US keylayout, the "§ or ½" key here. < 1313937027 700071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313937230 571870 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-14.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what layout is that? < 1313937243 77493 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: Finnish/Swedish. < 1313937355 706366 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Danish has a similar key there, except it swaps which is shifted (i.e. §/½ -> ½/§). Those Danes, always doing everything backwards. < 1313937458 390611 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1313937536 957303 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also reverses the Norwegian "Ø, Æ" (to right of L; corresponds to the Swedish/Finnish "Ö, Ä") to be "Æ, Ø" for no apparent reason. < 1313938380 543608 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313938469 335718 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1313938595 567312 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1313938613 256369 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313940043 353231 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-24.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1313940045 754245 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-41.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313940944 470714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Has it changed again yet :P < 1313941641 615929 :sliddy!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1313941642 137165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1313941715 370902 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1313941848 517829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1313941887 237267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :goætmida elliott < 1313942167 832951 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313942188 565698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'll test the changes soon... < 1313942807 457475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : when walking along a road without pavements, the convention (it's enforced by the Highway Code, which isn't a law but if you don't follow it anything bad that happens is your fault by default) is that you walk on the right-hand side of the road, so there's no issue with passing other pedestrians because they're on the other side of the road already < 1313942829 4841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes a mental mark that britain has the opposite rule of norway
< 1313942864 365805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's of course logical < 1313942910 200015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : help why am i sixteen in hours who made this mistake........ < 1313942933 849523 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Goat's mid-body? < 1313942979 654620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow i'd mentally marked it as september... < 1313943021 404813 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your lavish birthday present is still in the mail! How unfortunate. < 1313943038 593730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just god ettermiddag horribly misspelled according to my dialect, which accidentally makes it look like sami < 1313943094 914933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on a pun by my ex-collaborator < 1313943227 556293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : im having fifth-life crisis < 1313943306 615186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real crisis comes when augur rings your doorbell at midnight < 1313943322 677449 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-156.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : helloooooooo < 1313943386 514587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is sulu < 1313943389 757231 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-156.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1313943436 227886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the compose key has come in useful already < 1313943453 822247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :retyping a Norwegian error message on a French website into Google Translate so I could figure out what it said < 1313943474 707360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you just ask D: < 1313943484 845956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to type å without using compose < 1313943488 615579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this keyboard < 1313943494 72596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :å då så < 1313943507 379075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because I'd still have had to retype it in order to tell you what it said < 1313943531 148972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, I'd actually guessed what it was purely from words that were almost the same in Norwegian and English < 1313943535 389225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "software", which is identical < 1313943550 230078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :borrowing _does_ tend to do that. < 1313943559 749976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1313943590 637468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more official norwegian is "programvare" < 1313943611 911072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even that's pretty English-looking < 1313943630 14509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's obviously a translation borrowing < 1313943661 769588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with something more descriptive instead of soft < 1313943749 119056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1220 / 170 < 1313943749 781518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7.176470588235294 < 1313943761 62451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1220 % 170 < 1313943761 669800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 122 % 17 < 1313944380 210643 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313944944 357249 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, how's your warrior? 100% CHAMP? < 1313945072 989058 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, I'm thinking of adding your wire inventory to the outgoing message, so maybe protocol change weee :) < 1313945133 604204 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1313945683 15039 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1313946154 182969 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1313946814 129620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1313946819 756837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There's wire inventories now? < 1313946835 650894 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Soon. < 1313946846 954917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was never sure about them in the first place... < 1313946856 840579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If destroying is slower than building, then building is basically hard-limited. < 1313946863 772761 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ... that's a good point X-D < 1313946872 283693 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, they're gone again :P < 1313946876 299385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not, then all hell breaks loose :P < 1313946923 354164 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pull. < 1313946957 505519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it been reverted to http://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/index.cgi/rev/3a6964850280, because if so I need do nothing :P < 1313946965 177242 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1313946969 875416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the new agent-drawing work? < 1313946973 349126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the TOTALLY AWESOME TAIL IDEA < 1313946977 55149 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1313946984 713444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psht :P < 1313946990 918416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it then < 1313946994 967434 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrows. < 1313947010 500377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1313947015 96542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still can't see 'em, but it's a start :P < 1313947018 465573 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1313947023 21421 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're friggin HUGE < 1313947024 956972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you accept a patch to add the trails? < 1313947039 961629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Define huge < 1313947045 365319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe my warrior crashed < 1313947048 416087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has wander been updated? < 1313947060 720614 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wander was updated at some point, yes. < 1313947075 785367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't see 'em even with four :P < 1313947097 171038 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ... recompile ... < 1313947103 149604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313947104 270336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1313947106 130390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may be the issue < 1313947119 617782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOA now this is different :P < 1313947132 901846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the white blocks at the centre of these hubs? < 1313947149 468034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how come the warriors seems to pass through the hubs < 1313947187 406619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I take it the colouring is just some sort of highlight then... < 1313947225 77752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to add n-w support to the Haskell < 1313947350 694746 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The coloring is just a highlight. The white blocks are the base and flag geysers. < 1313947361 269392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1313947365 522904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any way to distinguish them? < 1313947374 474463 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at present :P < 1313947376 806335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, hmm, why would there be four blocks as opposed to two? < 1313947385 490669 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prettier symmetry *shrugs* < 1313947401 779374 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You start with two bases in front of you and two geysers behind you) < 1313947476 147692 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some canonical list of distinct colors in order by decreasing distinctiveness? (e.g. the list you'd use to choose colors for teams or bar-charts) < 1313947492 811406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's called a colour wheel :P < 1313947501 807069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god, this program's behaviour is so awesome. < 1313947507 522799 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's in order of INCREASING distinctiveness, and uninvertable. < 1313947520 882875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's caused a SHITLOAD of electrons to attach to this path it's building :P < 1313947530 328872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dunno then; something with HSV? LSV or whatever? < 1313947534 50237 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a metric shitload or an imperial shitload? < 1313947557 661165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://ompldr.org/vOXp0ag http://ompldr.org/vOXp0aw < 1313947566 672085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally eating its own wire while they pulse away madly now :P < 1313947581 854675 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But can you beat wander??? < 1313947589 339606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can you even beat anything at this point < 1313947596 536847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the software recognise such a state < 1313947611 402870 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm ... no :P < 1313947617 862816 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can add that relatively quickly :P < 1313947621 39857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF at this blinking... electrons ca't exceed lightspeed. < 1313947636 222556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might just be a zoom artefact < 1313947641 240915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That would be good :P < 1313947645 811149 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that thanks to you there's no synchronization between drawing and acting ;P < 1313947655 799460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to me? :P < 1313947661 560854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you removed the lock? < 1313947664 863597 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1313947666 877178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, I agreed it was a good idea in the end :P < 1313947682 758205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, your time limits only matter within a single turn; you can spend a second messing around drawing after that if you want to. < 1313947686 29815 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was shockingly slow ... < 1313947687 652210 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lock ... < 1313947693 604608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1313947700 296311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well what you really want is something COW < 1313947700 401607 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, locking is for pussies. < 1313947712 631006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that the CA can start modifying the world again while the display thread draws the original < 1313947717 479888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Besides, locking is for pussies. < 1313947723 473062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This line is doing something patently impossible and it's very noticable :P < 1313947734 184313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flickering on and off in its totality every tick. < 1313947765 520561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me or is the playfield mebbe a little oversized? < 1313947787 196657 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's flickering on and off in its totality every tick. That, uhh, shouldn't be a locking issue :P < 1313947803 312042 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have your random seed and warrior? :P < 1313947805 267525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it is; it's just reading the cells at the worst possible time. < 1313947816 280193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an electron/wire sequence. < 1313947822 536483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, electron/electron tail/wire < 1313947825 570221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe no wire < 1313947826 12975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1313947828 52893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay < 1313947837 900853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/rezzo$ ./rezzo ./wonder < 1313947838 70335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random seed: 448210167 < 1313947838 832441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder is < 1313947842 294766 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, unless it's only managing to read one in every three frames, that shouldn't happen. < 1313947847 773360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/LPVI < 1313947855 360385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile with recent GHC and -O2 < 1313947858 29086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs the cereal package < 1313947859 731556 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, even then ... that just makes no sense. < 1313947869 932967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, and it reported NoMessage < 1313947870 71154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoMessage < 1313947870 143766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoMessage < 1313947871 282635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :During the run < 1313947876 327698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a long run, but that's still some nondeterminism there :P < 1313947882 527502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That means the server said it failed to send anything last turn) < 1313947930 969199 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HALP HOW DO I HASKELL < 1313947939 472420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ghc --make -O2 wonder.hs < 1313947940 244098 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc --make foo.hs -O2 < 1313947944 35161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you get an error, tell me the error < 1313948003 589491 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder.hs:9:18: < 1313948003 714600 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Data.Vector.Storable': < 1313948003 790163 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. < 1313948010 873274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: cabal install vector cereal < 1313948016 840282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You're almost certainly lacking cereal if you're lacking vector :)) < 1313948019 478599 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already installed cereal < 1313948025 56705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the same for vector then :P < 1313948035 837090 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should know your real dependencies GEEZE < 1313948039 92088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.0.4 < 1313948039 258314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For reproducibility purposes ;-) < 1313948040 145260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I do < 1313948045 7841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector, cereal < 1313948056 76788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and bytestring but come on < 1313948058 857223 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : needs the cereal package < 1313948069 753269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, it didn't occur to me that humans existed without cereal. < 1313948072 607320 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs base, too! < 1313948073 900439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :True in every sense of the word. < 1313948076 832235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WILL FIX < 1313948080 732038 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : needs the cereal package <-- did not mention vector < 1313948085 172263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAAH WAAH < 1313948094 561207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't mention your gratuitous libc dependency in the Makefile either < 1313948109 917621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It occurs to me that rezzo might want something like ais' Secret Project... you need more than reproducibility of the map, you need reproducibility of an entire run :P < 1313948113 475477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is exactly what ais is doing. < 1313948119 156113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how fast it is though. < 1313948125 880694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works without any kind of emulation I think so maybe not so slow. < 1313948143 613702 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics look all good to me *shrugs* < 1313948161 502909 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know, the random seed is only a small part of repro, but *eh*, it's better than nothing. < 1313948169 459923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Graphics look all good to me *shrugs* < 1313948170 449989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes ages < 1313948174 94103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait until it wraps around at least once < 1313948191 743529 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's noming its own line right now. < 1313948201 41620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait until it gets about three/fourths up < 1313948203 68838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should see the flickering < 1313948217 635135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just my display but the effect persisted on (badly smoothed) Compiz zoom < 1313948238 544560 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what's happening. < 1313948241 438849 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's legit. < 1313948256 227376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is happening :P < 1313948258 811958 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The electrons /next/ to that are happily attacking an empty conductor. < 1313948268 433662 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It totally fills up, then dissipates, then totally fills up again < 1313948276 91275 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every cell has at least one electron next to it, in the next wire over. < 1313948287 458360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol :P < 1313948290 601428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1313948333 42119 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So no, no electrons are moving faster than lightspeed) < 1313948344 356408 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS have we discussed how awesome the name for this software is? < 1313948352 656843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so awesome :P < 1313948378 348402 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dood, it's REZZO < 1313948382 82270 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say it with an Italian accent < 1313948386 586692 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rezzo! < 1313948393 860197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I wanted to add SLIGHTLY non-trivial behaviour to wonder but I need a queue already < 1313948399 532964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...Resource? < 1313948404 389399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resso...rect? < 1313948418 541233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to remember that I'm literally an idiot. < 1313948442 859284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also my idea of an Italian accent is Mario. < 1313948443 25545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any idea about this: I walked a long distance along a road and suddenly I started repeatedly falling through the road before being moved up again. < 1313948445 143955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1313948452 494062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You may be in Hell. < 1313948469 425522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not really no < 1313948518 949036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't suppose I can piggyback my Haskell warrior crap into the repo on the grounds of having a bunch of example warriors, 'cuz it sure would be convenient to commit this :P < 1313948530 168056 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The name has no meaning. < 1313948530 707131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE OVER EVERY REPOSITORY........ < 1313948538 656904 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually have no idea why I called it that. < 1313948541 456632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh :P < 1313948545 844384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a nice name. < 1313948559 155454 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had started work on a precursor a few days ago, then gave up, then found that directory again but can't remember why I called it that. < 1313948564 976317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1313948585 584802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually end up with directories in Code/ that I don't even know what they are. < 1313948618 33904 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sounds more Minecrafty than Obliviony. :p < 1313948634 747979 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: One sec. < 1313948639 889633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was definitely oblivion. < 1313948702 635282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :google seems to imply rezzo means "shade" < 1313948758 403246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What am I waiting for? < 1313948767 123980 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a glitchy game, though. If you haven't, I may suggest http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Unofficial_Oblivion_Patch -- though it probably wouldn't fix a bug like that, it's very good in terms of avoiding really annoying "oh no the quest state got all confused and now I can't progress" problems. (1800 bugs and 70000 object placement errors are no joke.) < 1313948804 643316 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My latency is like a bazillion right now. < 1313948805 938311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, didn't know that. Will get it < 1313948809 190062 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm setting up a warriors repo. < 1313948821 87883 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be done if my latency wasn't a billion < 1313948838 548997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Great, so I can dominate the hill with my ten Haskell warriors with the same underlying framework < 1313948839 674410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WMAHAHAHAHAHA < 1313948840 460189 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As a word of warning, it does fix some exploitable-for-your-benefit bugs too, like the infamous floating brush one. < 1313948842 882222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :W...mahaha. < 1313948855 124287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, floating brush? < 1313948864 990651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have a feeling this game will be less popular than BF Joust, more thinking required :P < 1313948865 386264 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/warriorhg/ < 1313948872 590274 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Username ehird, password whatever it was for Plof. < 1313948880 121537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does hg have a submodule thing? < 1313948883 950506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget. < 1313948888 698225 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1313948901 96374 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :See google.com/search?q=hgsub :P < 1313948915 316685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus that's cpomplicated < 1313948921 85715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just clone this into a subdirectory of my clone < 1313948945 690787 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In the "stock" Oblivion, paint brushes aren't affected by gravity. You can place them in air, and they stay exactly where they were put. In addition, if you place enough of them, you can jump and stand on top of them. Combined with one of the item-duplication bugs you can pretty much go anywhere, as long as you have the patience to place a few thousand paint brushes to build a bridge. < 1313948968 623152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Amazing < 1313948969 551806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lol < 1313948984 291427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how could they not officially patch this stuff < 1313948990 2160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is just the best bug ever < 1313948998 953062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot really get a confirmation from outside google translate, though. < 1313949002 10803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that simpler than using the console to cheat :-) < 1313949033 780885 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313949042 203423 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably not, but of course a purist would only use in-game mechanisms. Plus I think the console's not available for people playing the console versions. (How ironic.) < 1313949045 933717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope. But it isn't technically cheating. Just exploiting a bug < 1313949046 350467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there < 1313949073 727189 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-207-41.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1313949074 801234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :English words for the Italian word rezzo < 1313949076 284487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :breeze, coolness, shade < 1313949103 403645 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The console is only available on the PC; there is no way to use the console on the Xbox 360 or PS3 platforms." Right. < 1313949125 531214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's an italian place name < 1313949157 788135 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well I knew it was Italian. Even though I "made it up", it sounds too Italian not to be legit. < 1313949245 513527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'ma just clone it into a subdirectory :P < 1313949251 534860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want to "officially" make it a subrepo. < 1313949471 116919 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't at all want to make it a subrepo. < 1313949481 451141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1313949487 723227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know hg at all :P < 1313949564 278656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SF(ret->damage, malloc, NULL, (w*h)); < 1313949564 445318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : memset(ret->damage, 0, w*h); < 1313949567 635674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Isn't calloc standard? < 1313949575 840490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trying to add trails
< 1313949591 253356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calloc's rarely used, but that fits the definition of calloc pretty much exactly < 1313949595 786450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication and all < 1313949623 647033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what /is/ up with calloc's API?) < 1313949668 415995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mimics arrays, I guess < 1313949670 705853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :static arrays, that is < 1313949675 239497 :sliddy!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl NICK :sllide < 1313949683 813444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one param is a sizeof < 1313949685 221063 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I have not used calloc in C < 1313949686 91084 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It does match fwrite/fread. Maybe they threw a d2 when deciding whether to do the multiplication inside or outside. < 1313949689 59048 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl NICK :sliddy < 1313949697 164548 :sliddy!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl NICK :sllide < 1313949725 560730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone pointed out that replacing calloc with malloc, a multiplication, and a zero is incorrect (the other way round is correct), but most stdlibs do anyway < 1313949736 723173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calloc(SIZE_MAX,SIZE_MAX) should probably fail < 1313949741 562721 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313949748 185411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and definitely, shouldn't give you jus the one byte < 1313949788 312749 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've always wondered if calloc impls bother to do the multiplication carefully. < 1313949794 583854 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most callers of malloc certainly don't. < 1313949817 284716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: most impls in the wild don't either < 1313949828 825390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc callers probably know there can't be an overflow anyway, though < 1313949846 816053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, that an overflow would break the program whether now or later < 1313949851 453082 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I never use calloc, not sure why. < 1313949896 111184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because what it does is generally not a useful thing to do < 1313949921 356129 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should Glk keyboard events be represented in Haskell, since using toEnum to convert invalid Unicode numbers to Char doesn't work < 1313950007 744980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Word32, probabl < 1313950008 19936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1313950034 132965 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best malloc implementation: void *malloc(size_t size) {return realloc(NULL, size);} < 1313950051 399429 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that would work. I don't know if it is best way though < 1313950056 116433 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially good if you implement realloc in terms of malloc. < 1313950069 493682 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. then you don't even have to implement anything! < 1313950099 173202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy memory management. < 1313950124 937151 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can use toEnum with 0xFFFF and 0xFFFE to Char but I don't know if that is proper in Haskell, since those are not valid Unicode characters. < 1313950208 235778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unsafeCoerce 0xFFFF) :: Char --can't be more proper than this < 1313950233 750580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Char < 1313950234 387457 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\1114111' < 1313950253 640044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showHex 1114111 "" < 1313950254 313763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "10ffff" < 1313950259 392656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I have tails... they're inefficient, have an overflow problem, and are always red... but apart from that... < 1313950259 666385 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "man mallopt" on my system: "[In synopsis:] void *malloc_get_state (void); int malloc_set_state (void *ptr); [In description:] malloc_get_state() returns a ... malloc_set_state()" (the ellipsis is a literal quote). < 1313950266 518277 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Haskell 2010 report just says "The character type Char is an enumeration whose values represent Unicode (or equivalently ISO/IEC 10646) characters". It doesn't say some numbers that are still in the range 0x0000 to 0x10FFFF are valid or not valid. < 1313950277 946733 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Huh? < 1313950279 886810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it also doesn't say that the type can't contain a pink banana < 1313950287 316354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the values represent Unicode characters and therefore nothing else < 1313950288 106503 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so you found a poorly documented piece of software? < 1313950288 179055 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, you're implementing tails in rezzo??? < 1313950294 98542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Trails :P < 1313950298 606149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I typo'd them as tails so NOW THEY'RE TAILS < 1313950302 82182 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not just any software, GNU software! < 1313950305 189265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Although, toEnum will also do that but only in range < 1313950310 632708 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you commit that ... murder. < 1313950324 919524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't have push access to the rezzo repository that I'm aware of. < 1313950331 907075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But jeez, I was just writing it for you to take a look at :P < 1313950336 249530 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does that mean GHC has a defect that allows (toEnum 0xFFFF :: Char) to work? < 1313950343 252137 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is not snake, man :P < 1313950347 83389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't see what's so inherently wrong about it; it only draws the colour when it would have been black. < 1313950352 468524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, but it provides much easier visibility of warriors. < 1313950356 658285 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum 0xFFFF :: Char < 1313950357 285123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\65535' < 1313950364 998198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length [minBound .. maxBound :: Char] < 1313950365 631630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1114112 < 1313950374 952973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm < 1313950380 246133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I guess that's a bug, but a pretty low-priority one :P < 1313950393 861967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl1' seq [minBound .. maxBound :: Char] < 1313950394 641090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\1114111' < 1313950401 755124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: BTW, by "tail", I mean it fades out the further away it is < 1313950411 65050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's basically just a SPEED LINE :P < 1313950416 311825 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh < 1313950435 809449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no sign there is anything empty in the range < 1313950454 826406 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Except the documentation, which says "Unicode characters". < 1313950457 322049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: < 1313950459 942189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1313950469 214458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 0xFFFF isn't a Unicode character < 1313950473 374213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a Unicode codepoint, though? < 1313950476 760326 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1313950476 910432 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :older verions of malloc returned char *......? < 1313950483 351877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think the report really means codepoint and it just says character :-) < 1313950494 303147 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Before the invention of "void *", that's probably the best you could do. < 1313950502 290073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Like void * makes any sense < 1313950509 916350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(*p) where p is (void *) should be 0 < 1313950514 390030 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :void * makes perfect sense. < 1313950518 595555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(*p) where p is (void *) should be 0 < 1313950527 24237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hmm < 1313950529 69675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's sizeof(void) < 1313950531 826791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you even do that < 1313950533 830190 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1313950541 731340 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :void * just means you have a pointer... < 1313950542 668493 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined: it's an incomplete type, that can never be completed. < 1313950544 125498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :void isn't actually a type, so no, (void *) doesn't make sense. < 1313950551 661779 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no type. it's a pointer. it pointers to a word of memory. < 1313950553 740252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "it makes sense because it just means what it means" < 1313950560 482286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1313950568 861577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice circular < 1313950572 218973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have more fun things to do < 1313950578 201722 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rectangular logic? < 1313950750 198268 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bitfield can also never be sizeof'd at all (or pointed to, even), nor can functions. Everything else (that is not an incomplete type) should be fair game. < 1313950772 475111 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically void* makes sense because memory addresses are inherently typeless. < 1313950841 925151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they can be, anyways. < 1313950844 215324 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is also the silly: < 1313950846 988149 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c size_t foo = sizeof printf("foo - "), bar = sizeof (char[printf("bar - ")]); printf("baz: %zu %zu\n", foo, bar); < 1313950848 913552 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar - baz: 4 6 < 1313950869 775173 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-C99 it was always clear, the sizeof'd expression is never evaluated. But nowadays if it's a VLA it suddenly will be. < 1313950926 57675 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a beautiful misuse of features. < 1313950954 867037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that sizeof is resolved at runtime? nice. < 1313950964 618020 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me proud to be a programmer. < 1313950968 856884 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some many bright folks out there. < 1313950968 933226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose they have to be for vlas. < 1313951298 635976 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313951391 400104 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think Unicode is badly designed in many ways though < 1313951425 341290 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1313951435 335073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK fine, no tails :P < 1313951436 131849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WIN < 1313951441 119743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The psychological torture is too much. < 1313951582 571497 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just added proper loss conditions. < 1313951590 363551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I CAN;T TAKE IT ANY MOE < 1313951837 960422 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I daresay this game is starting to make sense. < 1313951856 183104 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also daresay it will take all freaking eternity to FIND another player, let alone kill them. < 1313951886 542065 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313951935 307494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: isn't that the whole concept of Core Wars? < 1313951946 436403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except when you're playing against a paper-strategy program < 1313951980 819363 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair point < 1313952043 435200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I daresay this game is starting to make sense. <-- what game is it? < 1313952082 820136 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Rezzo. It's a competitive programming capture-the-flag game played on a wireworld-derived CA. < 1313952099 10649 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, its documentation is awesome: < 1313952099 482625 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./rezzo --help < 1313952099 563208 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :--help?! What's this nonsense! < 1313952100 503543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, innovative. < 1313952111 660330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so what does man rezzo do? < 1313952124 176030 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ man rezzo < 1313952124 259460 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No manual entry for rezzo < 1313952128 460231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ouch < 1313952705 632965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hg import patch for you: http://sprunge.us/hIKf < 1313952734 596964 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :( < 1313952752 522860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile: < 1313952752 773163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/warriorhg/index.cgi/file/2cf20f7fdf02/wander.hs < 1313952755 221898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fewer lines of code than yours. < 1313952763 188780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you whip out the dependency argument I'll point to wander.c's dependencies :P < 1313953192 283666 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the next thing to do seems to be use a data structure to keep track of the current known grid. < 1313953208 926189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the next thing is a queue, and then the next thing after that is a threading system :P < 1313953211 454374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That comes later. < 1313953241 884856 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even make predictions about locations that are not in view by running the CA each step. < 1313953252 515859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but keep the "predicted" grid seperate from the "last known" grid < 1313953405 787541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also keep track of how long each predicted cell has deviated from the last known cell, so that the agent can make decisions on the likelihood of the predicted cells correctness. < 1313953546 667297 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1313953571 557503 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313953707 114560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I've invented the most terrible one yet. < 1313953716 543609 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesssssssss < 1313953735 205966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pushes
< 1313953778 15423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pull warriors repo, make, then try rezzo on "tantrum" :P < 1313953830 540532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone explain the rules of this game to me < 1313953836 820803 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now that's what I call AI. < 1313953843 708775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WireWorld plus external influence < 1313953849 721429 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you know Wireworld? (If not, learn that first) < 1313953853 209854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1313953859 443430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I can't remember all the details < 1313953860 305647 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That arrow is throwing a FIT! < 1313953865 33771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I knew them once, and I know the general concept < 1313953879 798705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bots can turn around, move forwards, move forwards and lay wire behind them (simultaneously), and hit the cell in front of them (four times to destroy) < 1313953898 354210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also bases and flag geysers, you have to attach the opponent's flag (travels with electron, comes from geyser) to your base < 1313953899 263141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK, four operations < 1313953904 648168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's CTF, WireWorld style < 1313953909 191084 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1313953921 419476 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write down the CA rules :P < 1313953931 623839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can destroy each of wire/wire+spark/wire+tail back to no-wire by spending four turns? < 1313953933 98064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and 0.06s per turn, realtime < 1313953949 287997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can turn exactly one cell to space by hitting four times, doesn't matter consecutive or not < 1313953953 28023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including geysers, etc. < 1313953958 204354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even agents i think?? Gregor?? :P < 1313953964 555249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what specifically's the victory condition? < 1313953964 727156 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not agents, bases or geysers. < 1313953971 631974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1313953975 537957 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Enemy flag next to your base. < 1313953975 616136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's also bases and flag geysers, you have to attach the opponent's flag (travels with electron, comes from geyser) to your base < 1313953989 364329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: tantrm's strategy is truly brilliant < 1313954001 490308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it builds forwards; if it can't, it hits out in front of it, and then turns left and restarts < 1313954009 155438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it gets trapped, it just spins around hitting things until it escapes < 1313954031 635735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can there be more than one flag corresponding to the same player at a time? < 1313954040 712474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1313954044 923047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you have a geyser of them :P < 1313954056 248149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure when the geyser generated a new one from the description so far < 1313954101 984074 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm writing up a README with a more useful description :P < 1313954102 397584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Y'know, if both warriors respond in under their given time, you could avoid waiting the rest of the turn, and speed up perhaps the majority case massively... < 1313954126 6578 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hello -q < 1313954137 243972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but, I mean, without disturbing the limit... < 1313954144 550410 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... that's what -q does. < 1313954158 52966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the playfield has to be quite small to make this woek < 1313954159 631939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work < 1313954161 787501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, really? < 1313954172 374155 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We're not really sure what, if anything, works :P < 1313954173 966925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm starting to think that the viewport should maybe be bigger and the playfield smaller < 1313954180 964328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the big field seems a non-starter to me < 1313954186 950682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's essentially the same challenge repeated a bunh of times < 1313954187 296388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1313954192 268310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just = pointless slowness < 1313954200 278902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should have to explore a few areas before finding what you want < 1313954206 309855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure how big it should be < 1313954215 609863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a strategy of just building loads of wires connecting to your base < 1313954223 789670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that, modulo the time it actually takes to move, multiplying the viewport and board size by the same amount has no effect < 1313954226 478047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the hope that a connection to the enemy's geyser ends up colliding with one < 1313954227 633044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the overall slowness, I mean < 1313954247 44588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why would the enemy be connecting its geyser to anything? < 1313954260 900117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, tantrum is REALLY unproductive :P < 1313954264 819540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one of the wires you build might end up next to it eventually < 1313954291 764613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I like how it's basically nondeterministically scribbling somehow... < 1313954296 135812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Langton's ant esque < 1313954315 713125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, so new question: Why's -q not the default? :P < 1313954345 75690 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because you should allow bots to use their spare time for thinking. < 1313954376 332756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1313954389 378153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think of that because my two bots so far are really dumb :P < 1313954393 375505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one of them is stolen :P < 1313954400 4307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: if they want to do that, why don't they just delay their submission until right at the end of their timeslice? < 1313954422 133903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Might miss it because of nondeterministicness... but that's also a good point < 1313954435 832910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nondeterministicnes sbeing "IO") < 1313954446 823669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, less than four hours :/ < 1313954473 6703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tantrum produces really interesting patterns :P < 1313954477 465442 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, too much scheduling involved, you couldn't do it accurately. < 1313954505 817947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't tantrum a variant of langton's ant? < 1313954516 261472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, you think it might literally be that? < 1313954516 734637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly the same because of the four-hits thing and it doesn't turn right on success < 1313954524 286898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are the only differences < 1313954524 620365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1313954537 542639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain why it's making interesting patterns spasmodically in its little corner :) < 1313954543 626927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does it shoot away and become turing-complete? < 1313954562 503865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does this mean that langton's ant can be decoded directly into rezzo? < 1313954564 630694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1313954689 883127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case updateAck update of < 1313954690 48872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : OK -> push ActionQ (Turn R) >> push actionQ Build < 1313954690 124113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : InvalidAction -> replicateM_ 4 (push actionQ Hit) >> push actionQ Advance >> push actionQ (Turn L) >> push actionQ Build < 1313954692 847038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :feels like it should be easier < 1313954699 968159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(InvalidAction = "you tried to build/advance but you bashed into a wall") < 1313954927 668525 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/index.cgi/raw-file/4f41806a8067/README < 1313954937 227583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads
< 1313954956 807085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think Langton's Ant has ever been proven TC < 1313954985 666287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, nobody's yet proven or disproven that given a finitely-many-cells-set initial condition, it always goes off and builds a highway eventually < 1313955030 73436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The universality of Langton's ant was proven in 2000.[2] < 1313955031 22523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1313955031 533546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1313955037 625369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dim.uchile.cl/~anmoreir/oficial/langton_dam.pdf < 1313955049 497199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also osmeone else from the seolang wiki got published in Complex Systems....... < 1313955056 312299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aha < 1313955074 304477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they were a person who is not as good a person who could have been published as most because they are the person who argued a lot about TC and "practical machines" (User:Oleg) oops...... < 1313955088 200531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the CA there looks a little buggy; in particular, flags don't conduct along conductors < 1313955092 455733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: -w and -h change the protocol, right? < 1313955093 669355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, do flags replace electron /tails/? < 1313955100 117888 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Flags replace electrons. < 1313955113 241860 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you send an electron current at a flag, it will drag the flag towards the source. < 1313955145 664782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm, so flags aren't actually anything like electrons, because they move in the other direction, and don't move of their own accord < 1313955181 143895 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1313955197 448042 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually you reminded me that I missed a condition in a rule :P < 1313955204 182781 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : * electron: < 1313955204 295909 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : * if one or more neighbor is a flag or flag geyser and one or more neighbor < 1313955204 368788 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : is an electron tail, < 1313955228 788332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what information do agents have about their surroundings? just whether their previous attempted move was legal? < 1313955235 489487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they also see their viewport < 1313955241 588042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the damages of all cells within < 1313955255 207357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything, including owners of flags, etc? < 1313955264 316054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are part of the states, so yes < 1313955274 365063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a notational convenience to consider them equivalent < 1313955283 383470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and flags can only be destroyed by sending an electron adjacent to two differently-colored flags at once < 1313955306 40111 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or just hitting them. < 1313955316 166237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1313955316 501794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitting things: the best strategy. < 1313955363 777137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, as far as I can tell it's completely obvious strategy to try to prevent any of your own flags being generated < 1313955391 915067 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's obvious /strategy/, but it's not easily accomplished. < 1313955428 765731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :against a single opponent, it's trivial; build a square of conductor (of any size, so long as you have room to move inside it) around your geyser < 1313955437 608731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fits inside your viewport < 1313955444 79908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wire can be destroyed < 1313955446 916208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(conductor is a lame name) < 1313955451 102437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then whenever your opponent moves adjacent to it, you move to the other side of the same wire < 1313955468 682064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and repair it if they destroy it; repairing is faster than destroying < 1313955481 835549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Writing a bot for this seems much more like a real AI task than BF Joust < 1313955488 907956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hmm, that only works if bots can't share a square < 1313955492 385052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you want pathfinding pretty much immediately. < 1313955494 180828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They can't, CA. < 1313955497 352384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can easily always be in a position to repair < 1313955498 858490 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, but you can write it in any language, not just BF :P < 1313955501 87981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: simple enough, then < 1313955517 74219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you see which way the opponent is facing? < 1313955524 409151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Doesn't make it easier :P < 1313955528 602534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nope, but I did suggest that to Gregor once. < 1313955530 818167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can, it's even more obviously trivial to create an impenetrable convex barrier < 1313955539 823087 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1313955569 353138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't, the opponent could knock the whole thing to 1 hit left, and then random-walk along it until you guessed the wrong direction and couldn't catch up with it < 1313955600 381107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: help hes desrtroying our ofensives < 1313955643 191758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this suffers from the usual BF Joust problem of "it can't do anything else", of course < 1313955644 928899 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has fair points. < 1313955678 755461 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm hoping that the fact that the bots are in any language partially alleviates that :P < 1313955693 47111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, it's using all its actions defending < 1313955695 732343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has no time to try to win < 1313955718 910387 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1313955721 879218 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only stalemate. < 1313955733 536434 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if there are >2 bots, lol < 1313955760 678670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that in the "golfed BF Joust" thing I was wondering about, I was going to add a rule that "if the game goes to timeout, whichever program did the longest sequence of waits in a row wins" < 1313955763 286108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how many dimensions does the game world have? < 1313955765 804024 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big is the world? < 1313955771 163871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D? < 1313955773 92840 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 2. < 1313955776 847625 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: User-specified. < 1313955783 231761 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typical? :-P < 1313955785 465166 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Default 640x640 right now, which may be too big. < 1313955785 757677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: -w and -h change the protocol, right? < 1313955794 766407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rule basically makes defence programs and attack programs of similar qualities similar lengths < 1313955799 926764 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, why would they? < 1313955802 205062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't have to stick a whole full-tape clear in there < 1313955806 385477 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only the viewport is part of the protocol. < 1313955808 657221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, viewport is still the same, duh... < 1313955818 548441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is there a time limit for how long a bot is allowed for a turn? < 1313955830 996228 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 1/15th of a second, or as specified. < 1313955832 10182 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313955837 404993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313955874 1152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the thing about allowing any language is good. Means you can do complex logic and tracking state of what the opponent did to a far greater level than in bfjoust < 1313955884 880122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, will egobot support tournaments for this? < 1313955910 178297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, view port? So the bots have a limited vision? < 1313955920 748663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes everything a lot more interesting < 1313955961 185193 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: EgoBot almost certainly won't :P < 1313955976 278104 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, bots have a limited viewport. They also don't know their absolute location or orientation. < 1313955977 887200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'ma vote 338x338 for default size :P < 1313955991 386292 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's ... a bit big, and not odd. Although I agree with increasing it. < 1313955991 730285 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :338? < 1313956000 168172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Viewport squared times tw < 1313956000 537680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1313956014 907946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first I thought, viewport size of viewports < 1313956018 709776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just 169x169 < 1313956023 13024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're likely to end up right next to your opponent < 1313956025 413937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do programs know the location of their own flag geyser and base? < 1313956026 339190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I doubled it :P < 1313956031 757333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they spawn next to them, so yes < 1313956031 897808 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They start at them. < 1313956039 187396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they're next to each other? < 1313956041 752446 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have added some useful stuff in Glk although WinGlk is still using the old version of the specification. < 1313956055 658530 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not /right/ next to each other, but close. < 1313956080 939134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Yes, bots have a limited viewport. They also don't know their absolute location or orientation. <-- assuming that the initial orientation and position is known then it becomes trivial < 1313956090 162567 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe 33x33? < 1313956121 80800 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The initial orientation and position aren't known, but also aren't relevant, the point is just that you don't know what the server considers to be 0,0, you only know relative to your own starting position. < 1313956121 869635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including one thing I wanted to use, which is line terminator special keys. I sort of faked it in some of my own programs by adding keyboard shortcut resources to the Glk.dll file < 1313956128 861727 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Put differently, you have no compass. < 1313956154 51422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You mean 429x429? < 1313956156 139540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1313956161 334214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno... three hundred is big already. < 1313956161 711539 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. No I do not :P < 1313956165 465329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT < 1313956167 320320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE ARE SO FOOLISH < 1313956171 766273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_numbers < 1313956179 147240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how do you know when you hit a border of the world? < 1313956195 303248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 277. Obviously. < 1313956196 30820 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The world is a torus. < 1313956200 694135 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'mma go with 33. < 1313956202 191561 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This list is incomplete" < 1313956204 137489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah < 1313956209 154298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow, 277 is actually... good. < 1313956212 946666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 33 is terrible :P < 1313956218 992213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why does it have to be prime? < 1313956221 759622 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (I'm also reducing the default world size) < 1313956234 881066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm talking about world size... < 1313956246 777627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://ompldr.org/vOXp3bQ <-- 277x277 world < 1313956251 764745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fits in well with a size-thirteen viewport < 1313956256 273789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really well < 1313956260 966148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is a nice good size when zoomed < 1313956261 84097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whoa, so many sub-categories of primes. < 1313956263 974229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your opinions on that size? < 1313956267 16451 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... >_< < 1313956267 127056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, why does it have to be prime? < 1313956270 151315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want even you want power of two < 1313956271 860087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know only of a handful of those < 1313956273 285372 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought you were talking about the VIEWPORT, not the WORLD. < 1313956274 185005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want odd you want prime < 1313956277 198265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Durrrr :P < 1313956279 916355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why. < 1313956280 766321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, the viewport is good as-is, I'd say < 1313956286 967476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't really have strong opinions about the size < 1313956288 622243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Any more and it's too much to really process at once < 1313956294 553339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not really into this game < 1313956297 754181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet, at least < 1313956299 212842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although, hmm < 1313956303 783211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I will be if it evolves into something interesting < 1313956310 858428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I could go for 29 < 1313956311 424709 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The game is still very much in development, we're trying to figure out the right balance. < 1313956323 409079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 23 < 1313956327 323730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thirty-one is a bit big < 1313956328 7510 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, there's no reason at all for the world to be a prime numbered size :P < 1313956330 908032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thirty-three isn't even prime at all < 1313956332 475177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is there any implementation of any parts of it yet? < 1313956342 304506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: EVEN POWER OF TWO, ODD PRIME < 1313956343 80444 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. For example, all parts of it. < 1313956343 848690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS THE RULE < 1313956348 740360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah < 1313956357 246902 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But the world size doesn't need to be odd. < 1313956358 244815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, some flag action actually started happening. < 1313956358 405613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why does it have to be power of two or prime? I mean, I don't see any obvious reason here < 1313956362 51764 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In fact, it's currently even. < 1313956364 387132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it got obliterated. < 1313956367 948652 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because we're computer scientists. < 1313956373 380680 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/ < 1313956374 349919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so for vanity then < 1313956376 730312 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1313956377 565894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OK, every number is either even or odd, right? < 1313956382 239202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ... yes < 1313956387 670792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want an even number, you want a power of two, if you can pick a power of two, pick it, that's the rule in computing. < 1313956388 32228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1313956391 520164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You always go for powers of two. < 1313956392 572714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Integer. < 1313956394 419953 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So I'mma go with 320x320. < 1313956397 712712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1313956402 923084 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe 240x240? < 1313956407 972309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: For ODD numbers, like say HASH TABLE SIZE < 1313956412 49664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x480! < 1313956412 796168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIMES generally perform unusually well < 1313956413 467906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not agreeing with you on the even -> power of two, or odd -> prime < 1313956413 798303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore < 1313956416 105930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want odd numbers < 1313956416 293038 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We're computer scientists, all numbers are integers :P < 1313956417 670007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want primes < 1313956420 483787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it doesn't really matter here < 1313956427 768890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's not the case in AI < 1313956428 558809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh my god shut up you incredibly boring person. < 1313956435 971576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBVIOUSLY I AM BEING ENTIRELY SERIOUS < 1313956439 428580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, because I was writing some floating-point AI code earlier today < 1313956440 240566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm fine with it if it is for vanity :P < 1313956443 542278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBVIOUSLY I AM NOT JUST TRYING TO MAKE A COMPLETELY ARBITRARY CHOICE MORE FUN < 1313956459 693182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hey, we need Secret Project < 1313956460 127402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably work out a good choice after some practice < 1313956462 482629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: One important question < 1313956466 265625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How much does it slow down things running under it? < 1313956471 690030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We really want total repeatability of matches, y'see < 1313956484 167248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not very much if they're purely algorithmic, quite a lot if they make a lot of syscalls < 1313956494 972128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1313956497 931853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, what factor? < 1313956498 274110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it isn't finished yet < 1313956500 212812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it should be a regular prime! < 1313956501 807987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a heavy syscall program < 1313956502 811403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented select a couple of days ago < 1313956505 56097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to make it even more "fun" < 1313956527 22668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It sure is fun to specify a size smaller than the viewport. < 1313956532 843930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a regular prime that is also a sophie germain prime. < 1313956538 395354 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does, in fact, work :) < 1313956538 758388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh < 1313956545 881445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Thank GOD :P < 1313956563 679141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure; it multiplies context switches by a factor of 4 to 6, though, and those are probably going to be the most timeconsuming things < 1313956576 903700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for read and write, you have to multiply by another factor of 5 < 1313956580 283427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You should make sure every map has at least noe electron :P < 1313956584 289581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This map is TOTES UNWINNABLE < 1313956593 640234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to work out if they're blocking or nonblocking first < 1313956594 647806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Eh < 1313956596 808847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1313956597 776249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eh < 1313956600 760350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and change timing rules according to if they do, in fact, block < 1313956601 182568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess it wouldn't work out then < 1313956601 254020 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1313956604 195967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that just checking a flag? < 1313956604 613755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Eh < 1313956608 545702 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Eh < 1313956612 41841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Eh < 1313956619 264325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but it's checking a flag that's not in either your program, or the program you're testing < 1313956619 900730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How long until we get Trains: the Rezzo Series < 1313956624 563284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to make a syscall to get it < 1313956643 115452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, uh. You could cache it for the given fd < 1313956649 981674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lstat on /proc works, but injecting a fcntl into the testing program is probably faster < 1313956652 180510 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When rezzo's closer to done than not-done < 1313956659 828338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, getting the flag is only one of the five calls < 1313956666 318170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to set it too < 1313956666 999923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just cache it on open or fcntl? < 1313956675 981709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to work out if the read/write would block < 1313956685 793435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you set the handle to nonblocking, then try to do the read/write < 1313956686 890246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1313956691 772096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it worked, great, set it back to blocking and you're done < 1313956697 993129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh.... < 1313956702 921870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it didn't, set it back to blocking then repeat, and remember that that thread is blocked < 1313956709 365115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's done insofar as it works and you can code things today < 1313956714 816128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules just might change a bit :P < 1313956724 197648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be so much simpler if I wasn't trying to make alternation of threads deterministic < 1313956742 839040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to do that, as race conditions are a really common thing to happen in programs < 1313956757 267686 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah I don't count that as "done" :-P < 1313956763 646285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is a bonus if you detect race conditions IMO < 1313956767 815369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You played BF Joust while its rules were still being tweaked < 1313956782 696809 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Lower barrier of entry < 1313956784 995264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but you still have to make them reproducible < 1313956789 785288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm true < 1313956806 248973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/warriorhg/index.cgi/file/34d876dfc612/tantrum.hs < 1313956815 854667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The parts relating to the queue and the IORef are going into Rezzo.hs, hopefully :P < 1313956822 903272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I guess you provide a way to try different slicing of the threads? < 1313956823 725466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., everything but reallyDecide < 1313956836 540811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1313956847 523217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be different, which means that it's not the same < 1313956852 63397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so there might be race conditions you can never try? < 1313956857 337969 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hg clone and messing with Haskell is a bit more work than '!bfjoust foo bar' :-P < 1313956871 497945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and? all you're showing to me is that you don't know what Secret Project is for < 1313956872 674428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm asking about manually using some parameter or such to select a different slicing < 1313956881 881437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because you won't tell us! < 1313956883 606317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1313956900 429341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there are infinitely many different slicings < 1313956910 342380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Pah :P < 1313956911 533826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1313956922 744887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/warriorhg/index.cgi/file/34d876dfc612/Rezzo.hs Look at all this nectar I carefully optimised for you < 1313956928 172270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 113 getViewBytes :: Get (Vector Word8) < 1313956928 504287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 114 getViewBytes = do < 1313956928 583661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 115 bytes <- getBytes viewSize < 1313956928 583833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 116 let (ptr, offs, len) = BI.toForeignPtr bytes < 1313956928 583941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 117 return $ V.unsafeFromForeignPtr ptr offs len < 1313956929 109231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 118 < 1313956930 408344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I've chosen is to context-switch at every syscall, with a different general rule for blocking syscalls, and a few specific exceptions (fork and exec are on that list) < 1313956931 190702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 119 getView :: Get (Vector Cell) < 1313956933 280657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 120 getView = V.unsafeCast <$> getViewBytes < 1313956934 598427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also exit, for obvious reasons) < 1313956935 125701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT MY SIN < 1313956938 768283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually wait. Not true. Given programs run for finite time there is a huge but finite number of slicings < 1313956940 991215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exit_group < 1313956966 825912 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the rezzo equivalent of an imp would be to wander around destroying every electron :P < 1313956969 67015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wrong, the length of time the program runs for could depend on how it was sliced < 1313956976 901278 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stalemate yay < 1313956977 83878 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I was amused at the ^2 avoidance; how'd you pick up on that? < 1313956983 63389 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the flags, geysers, bases have parameters. THAT'S NOT HOW CA'S WORK BAAAAAW < 1313957000 678269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: >/dev/null < 1313957006 836281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can only slice between instructions on x86 right? < 1313957008 90577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I wonder if anyone will win? http://ompldr.org/vOXp3eA < 1313957010 831409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ghc-core < 1313957018 936342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, possibly excluding the rep prefix < 1313957019 750394 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The number of states is linear in the number of programs, not exponential. < 1313957024 874368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think ^ (2::Int) might do it, but whatever < 1313957030 913275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not what I mean < 1313957034 160546 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, so you actually went and properly optomized it < 1313957043 90728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a program could decide to terminate once it hit five detected race conditions in a row, or something < 1313957046 76239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The optimisation is maybe a little premature, but only because none of the current bots actually try to do anything at all :P < 1313957051 293585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, they DO, they just don't think. < 1313957058 476196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then what did you mean. A context switch has to happen at a specific point in the program code, no? < 1313957064 653871 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: true I suppose, but eventually the rules I came up with didn't involve any superimposing. < 1313957072 535212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, the number of different ways the threads can be interleaved < 1313957078 47403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I should probably check whether the -funbox-strict-fields I have actually helps or not, but whatever < 1313957082 451324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at each point in the program, you can choose to context switch or not context switch < 1313957107 233031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: I wonder if anyone will win? http://ompldr.org/vOXp3eA < 1313957109 882516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. Lets say you have 2 threads running two instructions each. then you have: AABB ABBA ABAB BBAA BABA BAAB and so on < 1313957110 129793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCUSE ME THIS IS HILARIOUS < 1313957117 545571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're still spinning around madly. < 1313957118 521680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always context switch only at syscalls and syscall returns because it's a pain to hit any other moment in the program accurately < 1313957123 174203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess eventually I'll need to a) get up-to-date on the current ruleset b) write a Perl player to destroy you. (muahahahahaha) < 1313957124 414313 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'mma go with no :P < 1313957134 22178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is finite, though it grows very quickly < 1313957138 285930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: EVENTUALLY they might rewrite the insane circuit to accidentally connect a flag and a base :P < 1313957144 485412 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: To be frank I totally didn't understand the last iteration of your rules. < 1313957147 831018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, you have AABBABAB as well < 1313957147 914415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how there's still a hole left in the mess. < 1313957154 396701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Perl? Good luck with that. < 1313957157 772936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody says that they have to interleave the same way each time round the loop < 1313957170 783789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I said for finite programs. < 1313957174 212966 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "do random shit" is surely the best strategy. < 1313957174 391442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, seriously, good luck with that, you might want to have long, hard talks with ais523. < 1313957177 79213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: those are finite programs < 1313957191 308413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so where is the loop then? two instructions each and exit < 1313957191 473284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who works under constraints of like, three moves per second, rather than FIFTEEN < 1313957197 777775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it fifteen? I don't even remember < 1313957205 551967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1313957208 321293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in this example that is < 1313957211 233097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TAEB vs. Rezzo < 1313957223 149727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't see where you get a loop in my example < 1313957225 395574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's now up to about 5 per second regularly < 1313957234 819408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wowzers :P < 1313957237 570507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, I see, you want your programs to be finitely long and contain no loops < 1313957245 518314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that is what I said. < 1313957245 850902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bug report: -w 1 -h 1 doesn't start < 1313957249 99829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a great thing that all programs in practice work like that, right? < 1313957255 932707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nor does two < 1313957260 588930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or the loops they contain are only run a finite number of times < 1313957267 967619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Three causes a floating point exception < 1313957270 103177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's a crazy assumption < 1313957276 277971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four hangs < 1313957284 692905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does five < 1313957288 402604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vast majority of programs won't exit given suitable input < 1313957291 363563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are such programs. /bin/cat is bound by length of input for example < 1313957304 470570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /bin/cat /dev/zero < 1313957311 672451 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it's too small to make loops, it barfs, yes. < 1313957317 901335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Eight is the minimum height it'll start at :P < 1313957318 908884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. That is an infinite input. < 1313957321 296713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what a GLORIOUS mess eight is. < 1313957328 356702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and it's one you have on your computer < 1313957331 744860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but changing the file changes the conditions anyway < 1313957334 212045 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the flags move like electrons, and cancel each other out on collision like electrons, but move slower. When an electron collides with a flag it becomes a death flag. when a flag collides with a death flag it becomes a victory for the non-death flag's owner. collision of flags other than flag + death flag result in a conductor (though electron + death flag could result in something interesting, but that's somethin < 1313957340 418132 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably got cut off. < 1313957346 49053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but move slower" <-- with MAGIC. < 1313957347 476698 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but that's somethin"... < 1313957352 341473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you see, anyway, that a flag to allow any possible interleaving of threads, and specifying which one, is insane? < 1313957358 208307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, with rules, that you make. I don't care if it's not a CA. < 1313957358 940151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really there's no reason for more than one anyway? < 1313957362 268689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, definitely < 1313957372 555159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Considering the ENTIRE IDEA Gregor had was to do it based on CA... < 1313957375 234549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but I do see a reason to test many if you want to find bugs < 1313957379 348015 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mmk < 1313957392 845279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, kind of fuzz testing < 1313957406 664017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it turns out that the Secret Project is not designed for fuzztesting multithreaded programs < 1313957407 246698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw about blocking or not, that depends on outside factors no? < 1313957414 118084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/rezzo$ ./rezzo -q -w 8 -h 8 -z 9 warriors/tantrum warriors/tantrum warriors/tantrum warriors/tantrum < 1313957414 373367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well this is somethink. < 1313957415 589833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I think I've said anything that would imply it would < 1313957415 839081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like if a file is cached from disk < 1313957430 577941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Secret Project definitely does try to get rid of caching effects < 1313957437 562739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah okay. How? < 1313957451 855970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making the length of time the processor takes to actually do anything irrelevant < 1313957454 749391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's obvious, isn't it? < 1313957462 697730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bunch of InvalidMessages that one run there... blaming Gregor :P < 1313957470 296871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway if a read blocks or not is really up to the OS unless you emulate the entire file system and block layer. Or network layer or whatever. < 1313957471 951714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it is obviious. < 1313957474 36578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvious. < 1313957478 59884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, more InvalidMessage < 1313957484 909650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: $ ./rezzo -q -w 90 -h 90 -z 9 warriors/tantrum warriors/tantrum warriors/tantrum warriors/tantrum < 1313957488 154459 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey it just means that CA has some limitations. You could add a notion of time to the formalization so that transition rules only occur in (g`mod`n)==0 generations. :P < 1313957490 755826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good, for a moment I was wondering if it was me or Vorpal being stupid < 1313957495 476918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Run that for a while, you start getting InvalidMessage spewed a bunch < 1313957500 764464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? < 1313957502 259691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whether a read blocks or not has nothing to do with cache effects < 1313957504 958687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My understanding of the protocol is flawless so you have a bug :) < 1313957510 350553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I said *disk cache* < 1313957519 849533 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For the purposes of derived instances, a newtype declaration is treated as a data declaration with a single constructor." No, I think that you should just be allowed to derive any class with newtype if the contained type has that class, and otherwise treat it as data with single constructor. < 1313957521 580213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whether a read blocks or not has nothing to do with disk cache < 1313957523 428749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in, the file data loaded in to main memory < 1313957525 575093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? < 1313957525 740594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (-z 9 not necessary) < 1313957529 893969 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't they do it like that? < 1313957530 981846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought it did. < 1313957532 56998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed < 1313957540 632837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it finishes in finite time without any other change to the system, it isn't blocking < 1313957552 214570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they do, with GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving for GHC < 1313957554 722073 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and besides, what's the purpose of it being a strict CA (which it currently is not anyways) other than saying "hey this is a cellular automata in the strictest sense possible (except it's not really)" < 1313957555 947496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reading from a slow hard drive with O_NONBLOCK set, you'll find it works < 1313957558 126374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so uh what does a non-blocking read on a busy device do? That would wait for a while < 1313957565 847833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313957567 190716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it makes the derived Show instance less obvious, which is one disadvantage < 1313957573 902092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It is currently a strict CA, and you're blathering nonsense. < 1313957578 956616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about nfs? < 1313957591 650394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a special case for that, IIRC, and I forget what it is < 1313957593 933070 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whose number of states is dependent on number of players. Is that how CAs wor? < 1313957596 933700 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+k < 1313957600 752230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there generally is for nfs XD < 1313957603 271468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Nope, there is a constant number of states. < 1313957603 885537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Secret Project controls all the filesystems you're allowed to access < 1313957605 964729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none are on NFS < 1313957608 853329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't come up < 1313957638 746149 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so then the flags, geysers, and bases, agents aren't states? < 1313957642 461509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yep. < 1313957645 157229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are. < 1313957649 677546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Hm reading /dev/random can block iirc < 1313957651 432578 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then... how does that work. < 1313957661 15958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Dunno, how about you find out rather than being an ass about it < 1313957668 876572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /dev/random is an interesting special case < 1313957673 52858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not I don't see how that is a constant number < 1313957673 281017 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawd I love the conversations on this channel. < 1313957675 267701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because how do you make a reproducible /dev/random? < 1313957683 149451 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ur a dumbarse" "Ur mom!" "lul" < 1313957692 996820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You seem to be mistaking conversations for not having the patience to deal with someone < 1313957699 298396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, you replace it with your own algorithm. < 1313957699 593800 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The number of states is linear in the number of programs, so constant for a given run. < 1313957705 916853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, and you can pick one that never blocks < 1313957709 704565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The number of states is constant. < 1313957714 206409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are always ten of each player-specific state. < 1313957716 328448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not really realistic < 1313957720 84222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure < 1313957725 916934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so? it's /consistent/ < 1313957729 254145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also: ais523 dealing with Vorpal, the most amazing endurance feat ever. < 1313957738 489479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1313957740 519737 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, fair enough, there's a max number of players, so in fact it's constant (though many will be unused) < 1313957746 362171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Many" < 1313957746 690849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313957749 941382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At most 9 < 1313957752 485217 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so you have an infinite number of cellular automata that correspond to natural numbers. < 1313957753 729608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you understand the Secret Project Stage 1 much better than Vorpal does < 1313957755 963970 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 9*4 < 1313957756 836729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what about reading /dev/psaux? You talked about getting X to run under the secret project before iirc? < 1313957762 565641 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: perhaps excluding 0 and 1 < 1313957767 797587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't mention much at all about Stage 2, though, or people would put 1 and 2 together < 1313957772 676911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps because I've stopped trying to guess the exact purpose < 1313957774 845860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've never heard of /dev/psaux < 1313957778 521616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I have a good grasp of the workings, though < 1313957785 311396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the mouse, well the PS/2 mouse < 1313957787 316395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I suspected that it'd do little to CPU-bound programs but slow down syscall-bound ones quite severely < 1313957790 619375 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: 0 and 1 are included, but sort of uninteresting. And as elliott points out, in fact it has a player # limit (10), so in that sense there's a limit. < 1313957792 712419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I seem to have a working mental model of it. < 1313957793 864632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not sure where usb mice turn up < 1313957797 866499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, I'm going to support /dev/input/mice instead < 1313957810 260014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all mice turn up there, and it's where programs tend to actually read in practice < 1313957816 672555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm /dev/psaux seems to be legacy name for it these days. Go figures. < 1313957831 171189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :psaux sounds like a squawk a bird makes < 1313957833 71709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because I finally figured out what format it was in < 1313957846 17340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which took several hours both experimenting and reading kernel sources < 1313957851 75656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313957853 712762 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no docs? < 1313957861 820822 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything like: derivable :: Name -> (Dec -> Q [Dec]) -> Q [Dec]; It would be useful to use in Template Haskell if you want to make up your own deriving of your own classes too, I would think < 1313957862 418817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I really need to figure out how feasible bidi parsers are < 1313957864 396913 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah for this ruleset you could either 1) add a number of transitionary flag states to simulate the slow movement b) ditch that because it's awful and just change the rules because it's convenient. < 1313957882 441046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are, but they don't describe the protocol < 1313957884 237086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just "change the rules" < 1313957886 656592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CA is a CA for a reason < 1313957889 151693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, because it's a CA < 1313957890 660645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what will you do for the mouse input? < 1313957895 324833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what Perl does to people < 1313957897 436333 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, the idea here is that I don't care and it's not a CA anymore. < 1313957900 384558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pre-recorded input? < 1313957904 684369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that involves Stage 2, so I'll stay silent on it < 1313957909 511372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't care < 1313957927 146842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when will you reveal that < 1313957933 69517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when Stage 3 is finished < 1313957937 858305 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a completely arbitrary thing to be concerned about. Also, it can still be modelled as a CA it's just slightly more tedious that way. < 1313957940 896132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and stage 3 is the last one? < 1313957953 258044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stage 3 is the purpose for which stages 1 and 2 exist < 1313957955 605076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we won't hear any details about stage 2 or 3 until it is all done? < 1313957963 283964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1313957978 183192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you certainly do know how to build a hype though < 1313957985 541113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I need lots of help with stage 1 < 1313958000 529527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the hype is built to persuade people to help me with it < 1313958018 716650 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313958021 678296 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1313958059 618846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stage 2, it's much harder, because I have to ask the questions disguised in such a way that they're out of context (but have an obvious incorrect context so that people don't get suspicious), and I don't ask them in #esoteric either as it would be too obvious < 1313958072 421141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, reveal details and you will get help. < 1313958083 44804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't need much help with it yet < 1313958088 110687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'm still trying to get stage 1 working < 1313958092 655722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal is really grumpy about this. < 1313958101 170787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I will say that being secret is a necessary property of the secret project < 1313958106 52948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, certainly. Did you figure out what it was for yet? < 1313958119 275688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: baww < 1313958119 609146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would it fail if not secret? < 1313958121 981127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1313958126 100563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exists /for the purpose of being secret/ < 1313958139 221696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I see. You are trolling us. Right. < 1313958153 800455 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good job though) < 1313958157 935835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes I probably am, but that's not the project's purpose < 1313958166 480192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a fun side-effect < 1313958185 348209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trolling" < 1313958190 864719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're stupid enough to get annoyed about it < 1313958212 554665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it only trolls Vorpal, I think < 1313958231 451238 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :conspiracy programs. < 1313958280 970726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its purpose is not trolling Vorpal, anyway < 1313958283 871269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its purpose is to be secret < 1313958296 430902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why this is the case, is also secret, for the same reason that the original project is secret < 1313958300 931741 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the /dev/input/mice protocol is documented, because I remember reading about it. I mean, doesn't it speak the regular PS/2 mouse protocol with the MS Intellimouse extensions? < 1313958315 247860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, this is actually quite a hard concept to express < 1313958325 962953 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because it's so secret. < 1313958337 399421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it speaks PS/2, and two different incompatible extension < 1313958341 97362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :extensions < 1313958346 321268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what's sent to it < 1313958375 691423 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it speaks at least that Intellimouse thing. < 1313958505 164157 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOUSEDEV_EMUL_PS2, MOUSEDEV_EMUL_IMPS, MOUSEDEV_EMUL_EXPS. Oh, right; basic Intellimouse, and Intellimouse Explorer, maybe? < 1313958524 416619 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I distinctly remember reading a document about this. But I suppose it was free-floating around the internet. < 1313958565 271205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this sure is hard when you're stubborn < 1313958811 609618 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I just watched Source Code on DVD – it all seemed completely believable until I saw Jake Gyllenhaal using Bing as his search engine. < 1313958816 644861 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :" -Weird Al < 1313958852 580414 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :was he using a Mac as well? < 1313958938 653356 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I parsed that as a compiler flag < 1313958939 316209 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: OK, so even if we imagine that there's a proliferation of states associated with the flags such that they will "move slowly", I STILL don't get your idea. < 1313958948 372028 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been my observation in movie universe that Apple is the only PC manufacturer, so I woule assume so. < 1313958987 416596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1313959004 52937 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's because they happen in the future, and in the future everything is white or aluminum < 1313959031 947371 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The idea is that you want to electrify an opponent flag without electrifying your own.. I suppose that makes the win conditions somewhat chaotic but it means you could try to build trap circuits to make this possible. < 1313959089 281322 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle text < 1313959089 403161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Html text :: String -> HtmlAttr < 1313959089 476740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ text :: String -> Doc < 1313959089 550045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.XHtml.Transitional text :: String -> HtmlAttr < 1313959096 800406 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hayoo text < 1313959096 911688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1313959112 208769 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google hackage text < 1313959113 106640 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/text < 1313959113 184398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: HackageDB: text-0.11.1.5 < 1313959118 115666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src ShowS < 1313959118 115880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :type ShowS = String -> String < 1313959126 273731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src ReadS < 1313959126 349012 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Wrong! You cheating scum! < 1313959129 690244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1313959130 428314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src Read < 1313959130 501329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Read a where < 1313959130 574830 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : readsPrec :: Int -> ReadS a < 1313959130 574985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : readList :: ReadS [a] < 1313959130 575090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : readPrec :: ReadPrec a < 1313959130 646824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : readListPrec :: ReadPrec [a] < 1313959131 295026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t read < 1313959132 502043 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Read a) => String -> a < 1313959132 909769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t readS < 1313959134 503714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `readS' < 1313959137 286882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t readsPrec < 1313959137 892482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Read a) => Int -> String -> [(a, String)] < 1313959143 737145 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also it makes you use a flag stream to win, instead of merely keeping it closed off from everything. < 1313959164 345467 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Quite an outburst < 1313959167 915401 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1313959262 590492 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: with the addition of some extra circuit components (diodes, pressure plates, a conductor cell similar to the "trampoline" in befunge that would make flags/electrons jump over the next cell) it would make it kind of a circuit-building battle. < 1313959347 918576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: ? < 1313959373 233773 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and lambdabot talking to each other about reading < 1313959376 760269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a basic "attack" circuit would be a cross with a horizontal stream of electrons, and two diodes above and below the point of intersection. < 1313959407 362274 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flag would pass through the diode, become electrified, and continue forward, while the horizontal electron stream couldn't propogate through the intersection (I think...) < 1313959427 988203 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The degree of control required to electrify the enemy flag and not your own seems ... intense. < 1313959433 109918 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1313959455 303697 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is quite odd < 1313959455 967842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm could the secret project be an OS-level time-traveling debugger... < 1313959497 841296 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think it might benefit from a mostly empty grid but I'm not so sure about that. < 1313959502 483388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IT'S FEATHER < 1313959511 955912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH M;Y GOD IT MAY ALERADY BE TOO LATE < 1313959515 370149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: GET THE FIRST PLANE TO BIRMINGHAM < 1313959517 634540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ILL MEET YOUAT THE AIRPORT < 1313959531 412484 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: empty except for electron loops to use as source currents. < 1313959534 295397 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're gonna be waiting a while :P < 1313959555 542126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things i would watch: a thriller where a bunch of nerds on irc have to band together real quicklike to stop someone going insane and releasing terrors unto the universe because of their research < 1313959569 44014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also it might benefit from being able to build faster than the current system allows. So that complex circuits can be built somewhat quickly. < 1313959572 594778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need more films aimed at the lucrative irc nerd demographic < 1313959591 200989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh darn < 1313959600 14843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1313959612 479385 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... non-interactive text adventures? < 1313959622 49303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no u wat < 1313959627 183187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no no. films. < 1313959642 313582 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrolls :) < 1313959644 568730 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote we need more films aimed at the lucrative irc nerd demographic < 1313959646 925316 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :613) we need more films aimed at the lucrative irc nerd demographic < 1313959689 164911 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also view radius could be increased potentially. These are all variables that could be tuned with testing. < 1313959703 361034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way ahead of you < 1313959705 443093 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scrolling up cinemas < 1313959922 299904 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it is pretty complicated though. A top player would eventually need some pattern recognition abilities. < 1313959947 304584 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm still digesting. < 1313960000 232480 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960002 77228 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :437) are there boobs you wack and squeeze around to move the mouse? [...] like those little nipples in laptop keyboards, but they'd be full-blown boobies < 1313960052 212279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960054 364649 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :60) What is there to talk about besides gay slang? < 1313960059 135087 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960061 245758 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :486) it was a wonderful dream i died in it that's how it started < 1313960064 355420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960066 481677 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :161) cpressey: I have actually done a waterfall-model project that almost worked That's where you have a flexible kayak that bobs and weaves between the rocks as it plummets off the cliff < 1313960076 876479 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960078 860012 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :27) IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! < 1313960088 271708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, did you know the bot does PM? < 1313960097 36422 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, NO < 1313960100 6498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960100 419066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960100 585879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960100 751329 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960101 116100 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1313960102 337411 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :219) elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! < 1313960103 72378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, now you know < 1313960104 961571 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :134) you move on the tape and shit < 1313960105 172437 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :449) [on petrol] oklofok: it's actually poisonous, so I advise against drinking it ais523, also contains benzene, my carcinogen of choice. < 1313960105 444700 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :20) Meh ._. < 1313960106 987652 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :262) 22:55 < qfr> How am I supposed to develop software in Haskell if I can't even prepare my projects in UML?! It seems like an impossible task. HAHA [...] this is amazing, like meeting a Mormon or something < 1313960146 89137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 614 < 1313960148 102860 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :614) Vorpal, of course I knew, you idiot. < 1313960165 212641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one isn't even funny. Why is it there? < 1313960179 962473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything against Vorpal goes in < 1313960188 638332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know how that got there though < 1313960206 325442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 614 < 1313960208 382219 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :614) Oh come on isn't it obvious. < 1313960239 779538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1313960257 318330 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: kick it < 1313960257 415560 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh i am here already. outside the soya tha < 1313960257 748410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Help I need a crash course on how to be sixteen. I am not prepared. < 1313960277 697311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, suggest you ask Taneb. < 1313960286 152516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to be 16 in the back of beyond. < 1313960289 332304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in Ireland. < 1313960314 581386 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you're supposed to be doing drugs and getting pregnant < 1313960382 595470 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1313960460 172847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ok < 1313960471 763890 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm starting to think that tantrum isn't the best strategy. < 1313960500 659257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow. < 1313960503 353627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm.. shocked. < 1313960504 682722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astonished. < 1313960506 344471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shocktonished. < 1313960521 113256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you give the SLIGHTEST bit of evidence for this slander? < 1313960537 708263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if tantrum is not giving the results you want, you are not using enough of it. < 1313960699 920361 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the best approach is to use a botnet to traverse massive decision trees. < 1313960737 877081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always a net win. < 1313960797 241693 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the sanest way to clear out /tmp without breaking anything? < 1313960812 342959 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a lot of junk tmp files that I need to remove, but I have no way to single them out in a single rm command < 1313960820 610341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :reboot < 1313960823 922061 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah. < 1313960824 443940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away
< 1313960835 703912 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS LINUX I REFUSE. < 1313960857 865602 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just remove everything, that's what I do < 1313960863 631706 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'll see what happens. < 1313960868 352232 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be fun. < 1313960886 462245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CakeProphet was never heard from again. < 1313960911 734780 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, didn't seem to solve my close-to-max-memory-usage problem. < 1313960929 430581 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is /tmp even a tmpfs on your system? < 1313960944 177505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :permfs < 1313960954 210753 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hmm, you have checked what's using the memory haven't you? < 1313960959 774437 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a "prmfs", to be more consistently named. < 1313960967 225537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the files system implemented in cuneiform < 1313960970 726761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*file < 1313961007 930003 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the "cifs" thing? < 1313961008 495468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome, java, chrome, chrome, chrome, chrome... I guess /tmp wasn't contributing much since I cleared it. < 1313961021 510357 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill the chromes < 1313961028 284049 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> yeah < 1313961035 676574 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL THEM < 1313961048 961251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor will approve < 1313961063 484119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: be careful not to go by virtual memory < 1313961064 776602 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol obviously I should go with my random hypothesis first before doing the obvious. < 1313961099 585714 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :went from 86% to 23% < 1313961121 182468 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what did it? < 1313961126 116378 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome. < 1313961146 258642 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being alive for a week or more, me causing tabxplosions everytime I work on my freelancing project. < 1313961196 973286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ram usage? < 1313961200 995836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313961213 365088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, how much did chrome use in MB? < 1313961242 711012 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just made the graphics SO SEXY you have no idea. < 1313961248 169441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to say there were many processes. each one had around .3 GB or so. < 1313961253 87572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, screenshot < 1313961269 840027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: screnshotek < 1313961275 410278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they textures < 1313961276 802859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, how much ram do you have in total? < 1313961287 80192 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 GB < 1313961292 890259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shaders! < 1313961298 478707 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't feel like doing the math. < 1313961300 516220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/ help i dont see what you actually did < 1313961301 153688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1313961306 540061 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka multiplication < 1313961313 671939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, heh, not much these days < 1313961315 994261 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the chrome people did it right, I think most of that memory per process should be shared memory < 1313961320 230197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/index.cgi/rev/9b44df78ea77 Gregor: Did you forget something? < 1313961326 187198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: they did do it right < 1313961330 643334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe he didn't commit it yet? < 1313961334 959611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so where is the sexy..........e...................... < 1313961339 179455 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, if you have enough processes they'll use a lot in total anyway < 1313961339 521614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's sufficient most of the time. This was an exceptional circumstance of negligence to reboot chrome. < 1313961361 109294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ah. I find anything less than 8 GB annoying these days. My desktop has 16 GB < 1313961361 866386 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, elliott: http://codu.org/tmp/rezzo1.png < 1313961372 766034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, looks cool < 1313961372 939970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrominal negligence < 1313961386 117655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, now it needs a shader, adding HDR. < 1313961387 61607 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's insane I don't even know how I would reach 8 GB < 1313961391 395434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because) < 1313961394 600751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than intentionally writing memory leaks. < 1313961446 540650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also mount | grep "/tmp" yields nothing. < 1313961624 743473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: where are the arrowes < 1313961631 948229 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... still there. < 1313961639 756075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cnsn t see in that screenshot < 1313961663 649180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I have like 220 tabs open in firefox. And I can still do make -j8. < 1313961690 806260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, that is how I use my ram < 1313961693 319056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :each to their own < 1313961696 945135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh my brain doesn't have the attention span for that many tabs. < 1313961701 369354 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you use it for firefox < 1313961741 831742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I have to say firefox 5 uses quite a bit less ram than older versions though. Still a memory hog, but not quite as bad < 1313961753 621379 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Dood, run with random seed 657868118 < 1313961758 494206 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With four wanderers. < 1313961761 219898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and I never really liked chrome < 1313961767 703327 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Blue and orange/brown are RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER :P < 1313961778 954887 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the times when firefox was an awesomely lean version of mozilla, it was usable with only 128MB of RAM < 1313961791 758058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./rezzo -r 657868118 warriors/{wanderer,wanderer,wanderer,wanderer} < 1313961791 923987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random seed: 657868118 < 1313961793 572685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it quits < 1313961794 75099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1313961803 653908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, heh. Not with 220 tabs though < 1313961809 376786 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The web was simpler in those times < 1313961811 654265 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also apparently my ability to take a random seed is borked or something ... < 1313961813 410156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, anyway wasn't it firebird back then? < 1313961819 116924 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phoenix < 1313961829 66869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it was firebird at some point < 1313961844 362017 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc phoenix was before firebird < 1313961845 604721 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, 0.7 or 0.8 < 1313961846 465414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how did it grow so bloated. < 1313961857 318024 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the board is fixed size right? < 1313961883 246141 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, 0.6 was Firebird, 0.8 was Firefox < 1313961884 238528 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I wonder < 1313961893 877334 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map 0, 1..5 < 1313961895 209688 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000 < 1313961901 299662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1313961924 238227 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl never ceases to surprise. < 1313961933 700926 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Size specified at runtime, defaults to 320x320. < 1313961938 566520 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uhhhh, wtf? < 1313961941 762362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, it makes sense though < 1313961948 328883 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes it does. < 1313961955 356283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, which language are you coding it in? < 1313961960 732834 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: C. < 1313961965 4262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313961972 604398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why not haskell? < 1313961978 705816 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because C is the best language for all porpoises. < 1313961987 515166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, tell that to elliott < 1313962004 460784 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but you're not a porpoise, are you? < 1313962005 701745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl [map {[map 0,1..320]} 1..320] < 1313962018 740536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [map {[map 0,1..320]} 1..320] < 1313962019 970466 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRAY(0x7fcef4930068) < 1313962036 566256 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: HOW DO YOU KNOW? < 1313962119 895379 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just... know. < 1313962123 285022 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Re InvalidMessage stuff, it's because you're dead. < 1313962131 33473 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm tempted to represent the board as a string so that I can use terrible regex hacks to match patterns. < 1313962137 191981 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I will have both. < 1313962155 14643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shouldn't that terminate the program < 1313962161 919042 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It should, but it doesn't :P < 1313962164 764392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much to think about when yer dead < 1313962165 343336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313962167 558813 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sounds like you want to write this in sed, not in perl < 1313962179 624442 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no I want Perl for this one. < 1313962198 642591 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no you don't < 1313962239 694182 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe sed is a general purpose programming language. < 1313962243 732664 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easily anyways. < 1313962254 89354 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1313962259 998200 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1313962276 859672 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same could be sed for perl < 1313962282 996604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1313962296 369764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: https://github.com/darius/awklisp/blob/master/awklisp < 1313962299 947558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicer than perl < 1313962323 787819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really saying much I guess. I'll look at it. < 1313962353 445875 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: as far as I know sed cannot interface to a network without the help of bash. < 1313962367 715212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sed not awk < 1313962368 836815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares < 1313962369 415763 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know much about sed. < 1313962369 890846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk is nicer < 1313962384 978097 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true, sed has very poor communication skills < 1313962385 228806 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry elliot, didn't mean to bother yesterday.. < 1313962390 371882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: ? < 1313962393 755440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember any botheration < 1313962397 859934 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1313962400 905433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, i should sleep. < 1313962405 186302 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, believe it or not, Perl allows you to like... structure code and stuff. < 1313962413 586377 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With four tantrums on seed 657868118, brown kills blue :) < 1313962422 501269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you fixed seed reading yet? < 1313962438 907409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise not much help :P < 1313962450 724337 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It wasn't broken, I was imagining things. < 1313962459 328778 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you either have to pipe in/out through something that does everything for sed, or you can call external programs to do everything (but then you need a set of external programs that match what you need done...) < 1313962462 987125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/rezzo$ ./rezzo -r 657868118 warriors/{wanderer,wanderer,wanderer,wanderer} < 1313962463 61438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random seed: 657868118 < 1313962463 61609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/rezzo$ < 1313962464 211993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then? < 1313962473 119556 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Meh, who gives a fuck. C cannot interface to a network without the help of POSIX or Winsock. < 1313962476 251836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1313962480 848557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your error reporting SUCKS HARD < 1313962489 487221 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually have fixed that, just pushed :P < 1313962501 595164 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So PULL LIKE CRAZY < 1313962504 712060 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MUCH PULLING < 1313962505 467795 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's a bit different how it goes about that though. < 1313962514 978798 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning in C it's actually part of the language. < 1313962531 143881 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on your notion of "part". < 1313962542 247618 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :invokable within the language via functions. < 1313962566 368619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it abstractions can be made over it. < 1313962569 28322 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-it < 1313962576 473959 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a poor notion. < 1313962587 760404 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still something that I can do with C networking that I cannot with sed. < 1313962591 106272 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is zlib part of C? < 1313962606 989544 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's something to take note of. < 1313962610 184786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what are you building btw? < 1313962629 398890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can't wait for red to die :P < 1313962647 175799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, the arrows could do with being a little less translucent... < 1313962652 441837 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: just toying with a Rezzo player in Perl, but I should really be doing more pertinent things. < 1313962652 840459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to make them out in a sea of electrons. < 1313962661 127113 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can totally do networking from dc without bash. < 1313962664 40804 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need nc. :) < 1313962723 680343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why does "-q -r ..." not seem to take notice of the -q... < 1313962732 822983 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I'm kind of surprised that Perl has no prototype for regex arguments, so that you can use /.../ instead of qr/.../ in the style of grep and split. < 1313962736 103022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just that slow :P < 1313962755 464991 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's that slow. < 1313962774 578491 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On my quadcore it's lightnin' though :) < 1313962777 12609 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would save TWO WHOLE CHARACTERS. < 1313962868 729665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I really love how chaotic tantrum is :P < 1313962897 744787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's harder to see all the spinning with these too-translucent arrows though OOOH BRING IT BACK TO THE MAIN POINT :P < 1313962905 824444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have three green contestants... < 1313962925 738444 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It only initializes the first four colors, beyond that it's whatever garbage malloc() gave 8-D < 1313962937 845906 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :split /\d+/, $string instead of split qr/\d+/, $string even though in most other contexts the /.../ would result in an immediate match on $_ < 1313962944 72921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Niiiiiiiiice < 1313962967 170927 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Err, five, rather. < 1313962972 970391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Disappointed that -q without any warriors doesn't lock up my computer < 1313963227 335623 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Suggested colors for 6-10? :P < 1313963259 170883 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub bmap(&@){my$x=shift;map{map $x,$_}@_} $b = [map{[map 0, 1..5]} 1..5]; print @{(bmap {1} $b)->[0]} < 1313963264 759847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1313963306 429354 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like this game is going to be, like, done today? < 1313963343 332268 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does the name of the game come from, Gregor? < 1313963355 759861 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Me. < 1313963361 635401 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*useless answer CITYYYY* < 1313963366 200036 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we go fast enough we might be even get it done yesterday < 1313963370 185195 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are secretly Rezzo??? < 1313963374 229165 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's your middle name? < 1313963386 978261 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor Rezzo Richards. Guess it has a nice ring to it. < 1313963402 922160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Chartreuse, octarine, mezoflouride, Rezzo Corporate Colour 9, autopsy red < 1313963409 135637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :, tambourine stain < 1313963415 270303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :, ballad architect < 1313963420 44865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :, fascist umprinder < 1313963421 757119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hth < 1313963422 641067 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313963422 897298 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1313963549 45825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So guys < 1313963549 969755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if i < 1313963551 739148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :went to sleep < 1313963558 784272 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would die. < 1313963579 383700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, then i'd never become sixteen. < 1313963601 641109 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is it your sweet sixteen tomorrow? < 1313963628 340233 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test{print "lol"} map \test, 1..4 < 1313963628 861060 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lollollollol < 1313963634 529725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: fsvo sweet < 1313963669 977707 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, odd. < 1313963670 683152 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test{print "lol"} map &{\test}, 1..4 < 1313963671 129620 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a CODE reference at /tmp/input.15020 line 1. < 1313963679 443192 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, my colors are now: red, blue, green, orange, magenta, teal, puce, cyan, purple, light green < 1313963698 938524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a puce. < 1313963734 547850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1313963735 88523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1313963736 137093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1313963758 894203 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's because bmap doesn't accept an arrayref. lame. < 1313963794 210099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have fun tomorrow then < 1313963811 384289 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice..where can i get information on the egobot..is there a repo? could ya spend me a link? thanks < 1313963896 759262 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n8 elliott < 1313963936 50117 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time do you have btw? < 1313964002 28826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313964024 101807 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub bmap([&$]+){my$x=shift;map{map $x,$_}@_} $b = [map{[map 0, 1..5]} 1..5]; print (bmap {1} @$b)[0] < 1313964024 611497 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malformed prototype for main::bmap: [&$]+ at /tmp/input.15502 line 1. < 1313964157 886052 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub bmap(\[&$]+){my$x=shift;map{map $x,$_}@_} $b = [map{[map 0, 1..5]} 1..5]; print (bmap {1} @$b)[0] < 1313964158 385545 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type of arg 1 to main::bmap must be one of [&$] (not anonymous hash ({})) at /tmp/input.15758 line 1, near "} @" < 1313964183 693711 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1313964233 455903 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub bmap(\[&$]@){my$x=shift;map{map $x,$_}@_} $b = [map{[map 0, 1..5]} 1..5]; print (bmap 1, @$b)[0] < 1313964234 223145 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type of arg 1 to main::bmap must be one of [&$] (not constant item) at /tmp/input.15882 line 1, near "$b)" < 1313964241 837911 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a \ in there, it's going to have to be a real thing that starts with & or $. < 1313964258 655815 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right because it's a ref. < 1313964259 77408 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1313964263 819557 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :gaddafi is dead < 1313964268 503921 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do \0 < 1313964269 681790 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, it will be passed as a ref. < 1313964274 934254 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I mean. < 1313964291 114548 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: really? < 1313964297 908833 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't emulate map's signature with prototypes. < 1313964301 329529 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly. < 1313964343 982598 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(&@) possibly gets reasonably close. < 1313964364 441251 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what the docs use for an "almost exactly like" grep replacement, and grep's pretty close to map. < 1313964367 586019 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: i dont know < 1313964401 722527 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that doesn't allow map 0, @list or grep /pattern/, @list < 1313964418 621567 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the grep example being more common than the map one. < 1313964443 14778 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well. < 1313964477 450766 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just have to write {} and return with my map and grep like operators. the horror. < 1313964490 417165 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: looks like he was shot. alive but maybe not much longer? < 1313964513 756733 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: how can you tell? < 1313964529 315811 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qui´´´´ < 1313964532 607537 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1313964533 648599 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/#!/MalikAlAbdeh < 1313964750 271707 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print map ' ', 1..5 < 1313964898 465563 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: FireFly < 1313966168 661324 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h249.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1313966326 588894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, is it confirmed he is killed? By dependable sources? < 1313966346 133834 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the twitter feed vorpal. says he is probably alive. < 1313966352 309633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313966367 335020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, says killed in the top tweet < 1313966403 423085 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1313966405 225963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, did I call it "tweet"? I meant "post" of course. "Tweet" is a silly name. < 1313966407 621980 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow twitter doesn't work for me anymore, FF 3.5.19. It shows the top bar and then nothing. < 1313966408 334003 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :($self->{arr}, $self->{str}) = ($g, join "\n", map {join '',@$_} @$g) if $g; < 1313966413 375776 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :object-oriented Perl sure is fun. < 1313966424 441053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :azaq23, tends to need js iirc < 1313966433 441330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that sucks < 1313966442 607997 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: then it's still up in the air. i suspect he won't be alive tomorrow, either way. < 1313966462 573975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, is the shooting confirmed by reliable sources though? < 1313966463 73525 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tweet is correct. resistance to newspeak is futile. < 1313966474 876137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, such as NATO or whatever < 1313966480 405085 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: JS is activated, otherwise this would be the easy reason. It still worked a month ago < 1313966490 606744 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the man is a journalist. he probably has sources that NATO doesn't < 1313966490 960600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1313966499 167905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, yes but are they reliable < 1313966543 583910 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sources are anonymous. only the man doing the tweeting can be the judge of that < 1313966562 333285 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anonymous to us, not to him, i mean) < 1313966567 461274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, so is there any other source than the man doing that posting on twitter? < 1313966570 935098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm asking < 1313966578 354206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I trust that man either < 1313966583 410261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never heard of him before < 1313966606 860589 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know. have you looked? < 1313966608 836797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, In other words I'm asking for reliable independent sources. < 1313966622 504452 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you seek them out then? < 1313966625 857468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, yes, tried google news < 1313966627 85414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1313966655 801354 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think other news services are going to say anything until the confusion has died down and the end result is absolutely confirmed. < 1313966668 967591 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reliable and independent..yes < 1313966672 65217 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313966684 190579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd, exactly what I asked for. Reliable, independent < 1313966690 336875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1313966691 266432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, ^ < 1313966707 812980 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're going to have to wait then < 1313966719 532722 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :by tomorrow you will know < 1313966736 876593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, tomorrow what timezone? It is just after midnight here < 1313966738 230317 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to know who really is < 1313966764 222338 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :check your morning tv news < 1313966766 927582 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1313966773 263670 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet they'll know for sure by then < 1313966773 680053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you mean news paper < 1313966782 102945 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one reads newspapers < 1313966787 977256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you live in US right? < 1313966797 283925 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also newspapers are printed much earlier than morning news is shot < 1313966799 934883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, in Sweden newspapers are still good quality, and common < 1313966832 958730 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait until the morning tv news. i suspect newspapers wont have it yet < 1313966860 99998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I don't even have a TV. So I'll check the radio then. < 1313966875 679578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, Sweden has public service on BBC quality level after all. < 1313966877 865375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike US < 1313966914 572557 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have BBC america < 1313966939 488234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, okay, still it is not like it is BBCs main target. < 1313966971 329083 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are very familiar with US news services? < 1313966974 890662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, and based on the name that covers more than one country < 1313966987 638382 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are all kind of journalists in all ´countries < 1313966989 746656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, enough to know that public service over there is fairly limited < 1313966998 895366 :CakeProphet!~adam@h205.42.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313966998 979142 :CakeProphet!~adam@h205.42.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1313966999 51614 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1313967004 293379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that newspapers are not as common as in Europe < 1313967006 299531 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :limited how < 1313967022 226188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313967031 152616 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and newspapers are ridiculously common < 1313967037 913841 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and very complete < 1313967043 173975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you said no one reads them < 1313967046 485181 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just that paper journalism is the past < 1313967049 649181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I meant < 1313967074 863423 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ..ack < 1313967078 335292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you have nothing like BBC really. You do have a few public service networks iirc, but no single major player like that. < 1313967094 648627 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think you know much about the news here though. nott enough to directly compare quality. < 1313967109 465567 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1313967117 89448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, possibly < 1313967145 808012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, oh and of course they are very US centric. And Fox is horrible. < 1313967176 52294 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like newscorp doesnt do horrible things internationally. < 1313967192 819867 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont hear many people criticizing NYTimes < 1313967208 530776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1313967241 287164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that paper have better quality? < 1313967248 927486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :has* < 1313967263 344138 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :including web < 1313967266 778350 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be so < 1313967280 692690 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have the oldskool journalísts < 1313967302 35350 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but times will change < 1313967358 32595 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1313967367 949992 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does CNN have a bad reputation outside the US? < 1313967384 336242 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1313967395 149513 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fox has < 1313967403 238400 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1313967408 895651 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fox has a bad reputation IN the US. we call it an outlier. < 1313967414 970274 :CakeProphet!~adam@h59.57.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313967415 45627 :CakeProphet!~adam@h59.57.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1313967415 45789 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1313967448 868695 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h59.57.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1313967451 502723 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are an opinion service, not a news service, so for delivering opinions they are pretty adequate < 1313967478 158512 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same shit we got here < 1313967487 378580 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing they certainly don't call themselves a news source < 1313967492 46262 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair & balanced < 1313967492 380304 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h59.57.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HALP HOW DO I SHOT FIND IN IRSSI < 1313967497 902524 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1313967511 987044 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h59.57.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HALP TOO MANY WORDS < 1313967534 14969 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Client Quit < 1313967547 844960 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h59.57.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1313967549 572967 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h59.57.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1313967566 425639 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fox has a bad reputation in the US, except for its audience. < 1313967575 546259 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which considers it a source of Truth. < 1313967577 78070 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1313967707 110892 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part does it make? < 1313967719 82051 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big o < 1313967728 533160 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the audience ..sorry < 1313967746 446318 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fairly large portion of the GOP base. < 1313967795 873916 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dood u shud rezzo < 1313967823 729577 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its the center of america..and the south ..right? < 1313967829 887393 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the coasts < 1313967883 936114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but times will change <-- maybe, but here newspapers survive by doing investigating journalism to a much higher degree than before. < 1313967899 346494 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the US's electoral system is biased against population density. < 1313967900 994900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the ones that are still breaking even do < 1313967922 801785 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp elliot's wonder.hs buffer cleared < 1313967926 285940 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Here journalism survives by spouting louder bullshit. < 1313967937 263104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think our way is better < 1313967937 944468 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1313967968 329741 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, it is. < 1313968011 588768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, especially for democracy. Investigative journalism is an important tool to battle corruption. < 1313968045 797901 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what's the link to that repo? < 1313968092 184360 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/ < 1313968102 956179 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpal: absolutely < 1313968107 66285 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Battle* corruption? < 1313968112 191909 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How unAmerican. < 1313968113 587579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, only reason I still subscribe to a newspaper is due to the really good quality journalism in it. < 1313968122 35956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :svenska dagbladet < 1313968124 388901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :svd.se < 1313968126 818505 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :US POLITICS < 1313968198 423162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that newspaper won a shitload of international awards. Not only for their journalism, but also for the design, and good use of graphics for visualisation iirc. < 1313968357 476213 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: agent ID = 0-9? < 1313968386 906626 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes. < 1313968429 127740 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't be so confident that journalism is all free and awesome over here, it's merely less bad I think < 1313968454 5117 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub id2base($) {(qw(1 q 2 w 3 e 4 r 5 t 6 y 7 u 8 i 9 o 0 p))){shift}} print id2base(1) < 1313968454 469760 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.22813 line 1, near "))" < 1313968454 806181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, true, not free. I mean SvD costs money certainly. < 1313968465 777202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, anyway SvD /is/ good. < 1313968467 247724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub id2base($) {(qw(1 q 2 w 3 e 4 r 5 t 6 y 7 u 8 i 9 o 0 p)){shift}} print id2base(1) < 1313968467 785290 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.22903 line 1, near "){" < 1313968471 367933 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1313968488 848160 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I meant free as in freedom, freedom of the press to discover shit and write about it < 1313968507 914261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well, true, it could be getting worse. Who knows. < 1313968524 877604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub id2base($) {tr/0-9/qwertyuiop/ =~ shift} print id2base(1) < 1313968532 428302 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they are probably pretty free, but aren't very independent I think < 1313968537 303441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise I'm not making like... a hilarious hack or anything. < 1313968571 48591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, if it doesn't print "just another perl hacker" I'm going to be disappointed < 1313968605 260598 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub id2base($) {shift =~ tr/0-9/qwertyuiop/} print id2base(1) < 1313968605 761771 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify shift in transliteration (tr///) at /tmp/input.23127 line 1, near "tr/0-9/qwertyuiop/}" < 1313968626 781457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, but why not try it locally? < 1313968636 341285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just open a terminal emulator < 1313968644 54695 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually more convenient. < 1313968649 287805 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll move to /msg < 1313968663 462262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, show us the end result though < 1313968697 511535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, also I have nothing against you doing it here. It is low rate enough to not be spammy :P < 1313968713 288476 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/README.agents Here we go, a simple README for writing agents. < 1313968743 439700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, typo "my respond" < 1313968750 980660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be "may" < 1313968777 391372 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fixt. < 1313968786 97167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, :) < 1313968811 608799 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub id2base($) {my $_=shift;tr/0-9/qwertyuiop/;$_} print map id2base, 0..9 < 1313968812 357584 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough arguments for main::id2base at /tmp/input.23915 line 1, near "id2base," < 1313968821 608886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub id2base($) {my $_=shift;tr/0-9/qwertyuiop/;$_} print map \id2base, 0..9 < 1313968821 889260 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough arguments for main::id2base at /tmp/input.23974 line 1, near "id2base," < 1313968825 439369 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff < 1313968839 85136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so the client needs to be recompiled to use a different view port size? Hm < 1313968840 203059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub id2base($) {my $_=shift;tr/0-9/qwertyuiop/;$_} print id2base 5 < 1313968840 791778 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1313968841 541945 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1313968847 124448 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not terrible... < 1313968857 25410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I say "not terrible" enough it becomes not terrible. < 1313968870 767707 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It was argued that since this is essentially a realtime application, it's more important to know the size statically than to be flexible. < 1313968886 127601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1313968950 887915 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the purpose is to map each agent ID to a unique character for the purposes of representing the game grid. < 1313968964 318884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ew < 1313968972 608736 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... huh? < 1313968975 132477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :may not be necessary though. < 1313969020 384216 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: bases and geysers are states, but agents are not right? < 1313969026 49963 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise moving around would destroy things. < 1313969067 789299 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Agents are states, but agents may only move on blank spaces. The "wall" concept was merged into circuits. < 1313969105 820384 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't really like that but oh well. < 1313969176 354947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so not really a CA any longer. Since the agent doesn't follow any CA laws < 1313969193 243084 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no opposite of that. < 1313969197 557151 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :agents are states. < 1313969198 167415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all it is controlled by an external program < 1313969202 465602 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah < 1313969213 18308 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :controlled by a predetermined input string. :P < 1313969225 404585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, open('/dev/random') < 1313969235 89198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err " not ' < 1313969257 858084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you can't describe the agent's behaviour anyway in terms of the state of it and the neighbours < 1313969274 484011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc that is what makes a CA a CA, as opposed to for example a bully automata < 1313969308 160761 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor, so not really a CA any longer. Since the agent doesn't follow any CA laws // the CA and the agents were always independent. The agent DOES follow CA laws, it just only does so during the CA update. < 1313969316 602151 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The agent was never a CA itself, that makes no sense :P' < 1313969348 236513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that is less of an issue when the agent is not a state :P < 1313969383 237802 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This opens the possibility of e.g. hitting agents (which currently you can't do) < 1313969402 796597 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it makes agent visibility not be yet more extra data. < 1313969406 460781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so how do you win currently? < 1313969412 566173 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's capture-the-flag. < 1313969418 928726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1313969428 410358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, flag geysers? < 1313969432 280896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work < 1313969439 210499 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did you read the README, or only README.agent? :P < 1313969447 887482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, link me to the readme < 1313969452 588057 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/rezzo/hg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/README < 1313969453 30552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen it < 1313969566 846056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, btw the time system currently is unfair. I suggest basing it on CPU time instead somehow. After all, who knows what other process suddenly decides to run < 1313969596 57641 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have decided to instead write a system that's actually implementable. < 1313969606 250383 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's unfair, but it's equally unfair to all contestants) < 1313969642 928139 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal the benefit of representing each possible state as a character is that I can use regex to match patterns. < 1313969652 196766 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the theory anyways. We'll see how it works out. < 1313969666 647845 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's interesting ... < 1313969668 631904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, .... less efficient if you do it from C or such :P < 1313969688 519917 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people seem to think that 1/15th of a second is some super-tiny amount of time? Implement it in Perl, who cares X-P < 1313969691 471206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, uh. How is it not implementable to measure CPU time. You just have to run the processes under your control. < 1313969699 82091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ais secret project XD < 1313969707 70295 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, I don't got that ;P < 1313969718 259407 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you think I'll end up going over the frame rate? < 1313969755 183562 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Everything I've done in C has been way, way, way faster than it needed to be, so it's not like it's cutting it close. < 1313969767 232913 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not fast enough < 1313969768 906809 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code it in fortran < 1313969769 156696 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1313969782 309401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm what is a good algorithm to do pathing here. Considering the moving electrons I mean < 1313969807 900767 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The moving electrons have very little relevance to player pathing ... < 1313969823 108882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, iirc you said players could only enter empty cells? < 1313969832 693159 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, conductors < 1313969835 604999 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but ele--yeah. < 1313969842 564015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how do you cross a conductor? < 1313969845 876388 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Break it. < 1313969848 548571 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I've gone with the name "spartan" but I might change it once I actually have a strategy. < 1313969849 599033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1313969854 331282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that is ugly < 1313969864 894658 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make a conductor go diagonally? < 1313969866 882906 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then agents can pass it < 1313969872 384772 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it easy to destroy circuits though. < 1313969872 883081 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Yes, you can. < 1313969878 517645 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just flail around destructively. < 1313969881 535901 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: But you can't move diagonally. < 1313969885 318972 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1313969887 669670 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Destroying takes a while. < 1313969897 396244 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1313969915 313866 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cells have a damage value (which is completely independent of the CA) < 1313969939 423494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1313969944 9829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the client can't see it < 1313969948 470500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ew < 1313969954 972292 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So you've read but not actually read both of the README files then. < 1313969957 927457 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no...not...limited information < 1313969961 531343 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1313969967 810241 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so you... sit on the conductor for a while before it goes away, otherwise it gets replaced by a conductor when you step off? < 1313969970 872754 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as that you think that you can't see it when actually you can and it says so RIGHT IN THE FUCKING README < 1313969976 928147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I missed the damage array < 1313969977 189598 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ < 1313969977 616835 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand a bfjoust variant where the player is told the status of the entire board < 1313969977 718370 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE < 1313969978 54117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1313969978 526262 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING < 1313969979 360005 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :READMES < 1313970001 284786 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- much more polite in README form :P < 1313970025 138787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, go code it then < 1313970050 230128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, not that it will be interesting < 1313970051 333848 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an obvious joke < 1313970054 604951 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't < 1313970070 284596 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust is only interesting because you don't know what the fuck is going on except whether you're on a 0 or not < 1313970073 577745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect play would always lead to a draw. And perfect play would be even easier than in tic-tac-toe < 1313970102 889469 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: rezzo warrior repo plz (sorry if it's in plain site but I can't seem to get it from google or the previous link) < 1313970109 238690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sight < 1313970118 274000 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That one's not in plain sight, since only elliott uses it :P < 1313970124 282156 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codu.org/projects/rezzo/warriorhg/ < 1313970174 872048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway hm I would make my client for the game multi-threaded. < 1313970183 905578 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Then do that :P < 1313970192 220903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, if I was about to do one :P < 1313970217 381746 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: reading Haskell is almost like reading a spec so I'm using it as reference. :P < 1313970254 422282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh another good trick: scan /proc for the server and suspend it while calculating the move. Since the other bot would not expect that, it should be an advantage. < 1313970256 493288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1313970276 249253 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lol NO SIDE CHANNELS >_< < 1313970278 272513 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313970282 534730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, aww < 1313970301 320875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, my next suggestion was using ptrace to modify the board :P < 1313970354 722859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway a more borderline case would be busywaiting all the time you are not calculating < 1313970357 231268 :hagb4rd!d932d67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.50.214.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1313970360 211060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what that would result in < 1313970366 69983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on all cores that is < 1313970375 339124 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, elliott and I used the same characters for the same states. < 1313970385 235212 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Probably snarfing up all the memory would be more valuable. < 1313970403 672366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh good point. But that would be tricky on linux. < 1313970420 206857 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (1) malloc(1); < 1313970440 125886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, due to overcommiting, and swap you will not get the result you want from that I expect < 1313970468 534582 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Swapping is /exactly/ what you want. Overcommitting shouldn't be an issue with malloc(), glibc still needs its bookkeeping. < 1313970491 668064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, probably more efficient to just mmap a huge range and write to the first byte in every page < 1313970502 213050 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, that'd do. < 1313970509 348104 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :setrlimit to the rescue :P < 1313970520 835876 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a good way to get the best possible score for the OOM killer. < 1313970522 564042 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print join "\n", qr/a/, qr/b/, qr/c/ < 1313970523 151804 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​(?-xism:a) < 1313970525 761605 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwhut < 1313970529 208612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh true < 1313970573 878317 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "a\nb\nc"=~(join "\n", qr/a/, qr/b/, qr/c/) < 1313970574 407984 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1313970576 594828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1313970577 972420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway filling up the ram of a modern desktop will take a while. I have 16 GB RAM. < 1313970592 235015 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll take like several seconds < 1313970607 577263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yep. with 15 moves per second.... < 1313970625 205634 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So, you're not gonna win in 45 moves *shrugs* < 1313970633 360103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313970637 386202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly it is a glorious day when I can join regexes < 1313970642 92090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the first hdd I had was 3.2 GB iirc. That isn't a lot these days < 1313970643 519795 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I suppose strings would have sufficed. < 1313970784 696419 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could run the program under UMLBox with max (say) 64MB memory, and no more than one user process (which I /think/ still allows threads?) < 1313970798 918936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no it doesn't < 1313970800 824761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1313970815 728672 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does with NPTL. < 1313970820 733745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1313970830 749912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway 64 MB isn't much < 1313970837 192998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, not if you are using haskell < 1313970847 522352 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I at least think... < 1313970864 208714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, allow 1 GB or so. That would be more than enough. And not large enough to be problematic on a modern system. < 1313970870 76538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides what is wrong with using fork()? < 1313970887 691857 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: UML processes are processes, so you can still glut. < 1313970898 28706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, glut? < 1313970910 163125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the opengl related library? < 1313970913 520369 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1313970945 897167 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does NOÖNE no what glut means today. < 1313970952 511560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, tell me < 1313970959 171094 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verb: Supply or fill to excess: "the factories for recycling paper are glutted". < 1313970969 925377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1313970993 923409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, must be deprecated. Removed in English 2011.08 < 1313971001 411528 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1313971005 34249 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's because you keep using "no" for "know". The stupidity has retroactively spread. < 1313971019 893568 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ... I seriously suck at English recently ... < 1313971037 854076 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got someone else's error message out of EgoBot via DCC, I think. < 1313971043 561420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1313971061 461611 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, so long as /somebody/ gets them. < 1313971074 79197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway 64 MB is tiny. 1 GB may be too much if you have many warriors < 1313971089 929539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so, lets say 512 MB each? Sounds reasonable to me < 1313971091 882399 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/yw0y -- wanted to check if it prints the other lines too, but it DCC-sent me someone's Haskell type problems. < 1313971108 507972 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My desktop has 1G 8-D < 1313971125 112436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how quaint < 1313971125 733153 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nowait, 2G :P ) < 1313971132 410822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still quaint < 1313971150 909751 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This desktop is from 2008. < 1313971153 200681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, anyway 64 MB each precludes many high level languages < 1313971159 109563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, low end then? < 1313971168 634088 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's my main computer. < 1313971170 398176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I mean my laptop from 2008 has more ram < 1313971177 133572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is from 2008 < 1313971182 619459 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 2008 might be wrong :P < 1313971183 106608 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-213.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, 4G cost like $40 in 2008. < 1313971188 995904 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007? < 1313971189 383901 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1313971191 633858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay 2009 < 1313971192 436628 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere 'round there.