00:00:03 Gregor, still. It must have been low end 00:00:11 What do I need it for *shrugs* 00:00:14 All I do is program. 00:00:18 Gregor, running warriors! 00:00:38 Gregor, besides you play mc, no? 00:00:46 Vorpal: Yeah. It works fine. 00:00:58 Vorpal: Uh, Minecraft genuinely doesn't *use* more than 256MiB of heap. 00:01:21 Memory bloat is *not* a problem Minecraft has. :) 00:01:23 pikhq, it manages to eat a lot for me. I have optimine or whatever it is called these days. 00:01:53 *Java* seems to love using metric fucktons of heap, though. 00:01:57 pikhq, it eats more when playing single player than multiplayer of course 00:02:01 pikhq, well, there is that 00:02:08 pikhq, and the server eats a shitload. 00:02:15 Y'know, so it can have 1 GiB of heap, only 256 MiB of which is in use ever. 00:02:29 I suppose this lets it collect less? 00:02:42 perhaps 00:04:00 pikhq, how comes the server is so ram hungry though? 00:05:34 From what I gather, each loaded chunk uses up quite a decent bit of RAM. 00:05:41 Firefox has the largest RSS here; what, 1.5G of physical memory eaten for a reasonable set of 70-odd tabs? 00:05:51 heh 00:05:53 And in multiplayer, more chunks will be loaded, unless you've got all players in the exact same chunk. 00:06:39 pikhq, anyway on single player, more ram than what you mentioned will be used on far. Or less on normal. 00:07:45 and of course, various plugins eating up further ram. 00:07:56 well, night, *puts computer to sleep* 00:08:52 nighty night Vorpal's computer 00:09:35 these regexes will be /really/ complicated... 00:11:06 regexps are very simple compared to how much complication you can get out of them :) 00:11:33 matching strings in 2d grid = potential nightmare 00:12:25 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:18:04 there has to be so many things wrong with this algorithm.... 00:18:45 the hallmarks of a good algorithm there 00:19:25 * CakeProphet is trying to match multiple occurences of a grid-like pattern in a multi-line string. 00:19:37 and also give the coordinates of the top-left corner of its occurence... 00:32:33 ah I think I figured it out. 00:42:42 what... why is emacs freezing. 00:42:44 STOP THAT. 00:45:30 ..... 00:45:50 recover-this-file is also frozen 00:45:52 FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUU 00:46:43 what... 00:50:25 apparently an unbalanced parenthesis fucked up emacs perl-mode? 00:58:14 I blame the perl 00:58:49 http://s348091950.initial-website.com/ 00:59:03 Cross the bridge to quality 00:59:33 Jesus, darcs, have more warnings, why don't you? 01:04:32 !perl print "test" =~ /(?{"test"})/ 01:04:32 1 01:05:01 !perl print "test" =~ /.(?{"est"})/ 01:05:02 1 01:05:55 !perl my $x; print "01" =~ /.(?{pos $x})/; print $x 01:05:56 1 01:06:09 !perl my $x; print "01" =~ /(?{pos $x})/; print $x 01:06:09 1 01:06:12 !perl my $x; print "0" =~ /(?{pos $x})/; print $x 01:06:13 1 01:06:34 !perl my $x; print "0" =~ /((?{pos $x}))/; print $1 01:06:38 mmk 01:06:47 time to do terrible terrible things. 01:06:56 that probably do not work yet because I have not debugged anything. 01:07:10 !perl my $x; "0" =~ /((?{pos $x}))/; print $x 01:08:09 !perl my $x; "0" =~ /((?{x=pos}))/; print $x 01:08:09 Can't modify constant item in scalar assignment at (re_eval 1) line 3, at EOF 01:09:06 !perl my $x; "0" =~ /((?{pos}))/; print $^R 01:09:07 0 01:09:13 !perl my $x; "0" =~ /.(?{pos})/; print $^R 01:09:13 1 01:09:19 aha 01:09:37 !perl my $x; "0" =~ /.(?{pos})/; print $^R, $1 01:09:37 1 01:10:05 this is a wonderful thing. 01:10:39 scary o.o 01:11:47 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:12:59 !perl my $x; "0" =~ /(?{pos})/; print $1 01:13:06 !perl my $x; "0" =~ /(?{"0"})/; print $1 01:13:15 er what. 01:13:48 wow #perl is useless. 01:14:13 !perl my $x; print "0" =~ /(?{"0"})/; 01:14:13 1 01:14:16 !perl my $x; print "0" =~ /(?{pos})/; 01:14:17 1 01:14:19 !perl my $x; print "0" =~ /(?{pos;""})/; 01:14:20 1 01:14:24 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 01:14:58 -!- Nihilist1andy has joined. 01:15:02 !perl my $x; print "00" =~ /.(?{pos})/; 01:15:02 1 01:15:08 ah okay. 01:15:43 :| 01:16:24 I can make Rezzo videos now :) 01:16:31 Now if only there was something to make videos of :P 01:16:50 this is a wonderful thing I've discovered. 01:21:31 !perl print "test" =~ /^t@{["est"]}$/; 01:21:31 1 01:27:16 http://pastebin.com/P0RUvnw3 01:27:22 is this what beautiful code looks like? 01:27:39 also, haven't tested it yet so if you notice anything obvious let me know. I don't have time to debug atm. 01:30:07 Is it me, or is Epigram really, really ugly? 01:30:37 Oh, nevermind 01:30:46 It was just Wikipedia making it look that way 01:31:38 bonus points if you can figure out what those regexes are supposed to do. 01:33:01 ah found a bug 01:37:51 Great, just great. The 0-star TAS got faster again http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11699&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 01:38:38 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:41:24 "This TAS began when Kyman found a 1 frame improvement in the spiral stairs room." 01:42:05 0-star TAS is the most pedantic of frame warsa 01:43:36 What's BLJ? 01:43:45 backwards long jump 01:43:50 basically you park your rump against a wall and start doing long jumps 01:43:56 every time your velocity increases without bound 01:44:04 then you turn so there's no wall behind you and BAM you go flying 01:44:28 if you watch the run it's the 30Hz vibrating thing he does against solid surfaces 01:44:40 I think infinite butt jump would be a better name 01:44:54 lolphysics 01:44:57 I figured that was the thing, I just had no idea what it stood for 01:46:34 while I'm not sure if my Perl works yet (I would wager it does not), I am certainly still proud of how it looks. 01:48:09 !perl sub TEST(){'test'} print "&TEST" 01:48:10 ​&TEST 01:48:13 :( 01:48:30 Perl: It is as bad as you can possibly comprehend. 01:50:20 !perl sub TEST(){\'test'} print "${TEST}" 01:50:35 oh right 01:50:53 !perl sub TEST(){my $t='test';\$t} print "${TEST}" 01:51:33 oh well, not important. 01:53:11 > 320*320 01:53:12 102400 01:53:27 that's quite a large string to run multiple regexes through. 01:54:13 CakeProphet: Your viewport is only 13x13, but I guess you probably want more global operations ... 01:54:20 yeah 01:54:28 but I could work only on the viewport as well. 01:54:50 and eventually do some kind of dynamic resizing so that I'm only searching known areas. 01:55:38 Gregor: `quote 611 01:55:47 `quote 611 01:55:49 611) Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk 01:55:55 Heh :P 01:56:05 besides the viewport or a small radius around the viewport is probably better since the accuracy of the global environment is uncertain if I haven't visited recently. 01:56:18 (Implementino being Spanish for "implementation") 01:56:25 Clearly 01:56:57 Oh, implementatino rather :P 01:56:58 Also because someone (who shall remain named elliott) wouldn't accept my asterisk 01:57:39 !perl ' .'x(102400.0/2) =~ /fail/ 01:57:51 !perl print "fail" unless ' .'x(102400.0/2) =~ /fail/ 01:57:51 fail 01:57:55 `quote implementatino 01:57:57 611) Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk 01:58:06 `run sed 's/implementatino/implementation/g' -i quotes 01:58:08 No output. 01:58:11 `quote 611 01:58:13 611) Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementation of awk 01:58:21 well, the full string traversal isn't a problem. a more complex regex might be considerably slower though. 01:58:47 CakeProphet: How "isn't a problem" is "isn't a problem"? 01:58:50 That's neat 01:59:36 Gregor: I don't have a precise metric, I guess. 1/15 second is kind of hard to judge by ear. 02:00:04 CakeProphet: Run your simple regex 15,000 times and make sure it takes <1sec *shrugs* 02:00:26 OK, maybe 1,500 :P 02:00:51 !perl ' .'x(102400.0/2) =~ /fail/ for (1..1500);print "fail" 02:00:52 fail 02:00:59 that was less than a second, even with latency. 02:01:13 unless there's some kind of cacheing that I don't know about? 02:01:17 Nope 02:01:33 not with egobot I mean Perl regex. 02:01:55 but I guess it construct a new string each iteration 02:01:56 Oh ... there might be. 02:01:58 so no cacheing if that's even possible. 02:02:07 CakeProphet: That clocks in at 0.008s on my system :P 02:02:18 > 1/15 02:02:18 6.666666666666667e-2 02:02:25 0.06 02:02:36 CakeProphet: And I mean 0.008 in /total/, certainly not per iteration. 02:02:46 okay, probably not going to be a problem unless I get some massive regexes (which might actually happen) 02:03:02 You're several orders of magnitute away from it being a problem yet *shrugs* 02:04:03 also I generally take care to avoid things like nongreedy patterns. 02:04:29 !perl ' .'x(102400.0/2) =~ /.*?/ for (1..1500);print "fail" 02:04:30 fail 02:04:36 which are apparently not a big deal either 02:05:12 reasoning about the performance of regex is kind of difficult actually.... 02:05:29 Yeah, but you can make some broad guesses :P 02:06:36 I'm using Perl's illegibility to my advantage, so that future warriors do not copy my ingenius tactics. 02:06:41 lol 02:12:10 right okay so damage goes down as you sit on a conductor? when you get off it either becomes a space or conductor based on if the damage is depleted? 02:12:17 I'm just guessing. I don't really know how it works. 02:12:31 oh wait you use "hit" next to it? 02:12:47 because conductors act as walls. 02:14:06 I wonder how expensive a full rotation of the board would be, so that I could have regexes based on orientation. 02:18:35 Damage goes up, not down. 02:18:39 Otherwise, all yes. 02:18:55 oh, so you just have to keep hitting until it disappears? 02:19:09 is the value secret? 02:19:17 No, it's always 4 (as documented in the README) 02:19:28 should probably read that one of these days 02:19:33 >_> 02:20:34 okay so the server DOES NOT adjust your viewport based on orientation right? So if I wanted that I would have to do the rotations myself right? 02:20:48 The server DOES adjust your viewport based on orientation. 02:20:53 It's always what's in front of you. 02:21:52 oh excellent. 02:22:03 but I'll still have to rotate the board to have it match. 02:22:12 so same thing kind of. 02:22:23 well I could just account for the rotation 02:22:32 instead of rotating the whole thing constantly. 02:29:21 > 0.06 / 0.008 02:29:21 7.5 02:30:04 that's not a lot of regexes per turn, especially when if the complex ones are more time consuming. 02:32:43 so 1) resize grid as needed 2) use small arrays for things that can be near-sighted 3) hardcode some pattern matching 02:34:59 CakeProphet: Remember that was 0.008s to do 1,500 regexes. 02:35:50 oh right... 02:35:54 lol nv 02:35:55 m 02:36:21 I can get all semi-conscious on these bitches. 02:37:16 these games will be pretty long I imagine. 02:38:47 Well, my original idea for this was to just have an ongoing game that you can join at "any" point. That's made progressively less sense though. 02:38:56 heh 02:39:38 I would just create some huge monolithic grid that connects every possible point together with walkways so that I can scan for new bases to pillage. 02:39:50 or something like that. 02:40:02 Yeah, that's the problem, you're wildly disadvantaged as a new join :P 02:41:07 it will be interesting how well this regex approach works out. 02:41:32 IDEA. 02:41:38 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:41:40 instead of rotating the board just have 4 boards for every rotation. 02:43:17 so simple 02:43:24 and... painful to program. 02:44:47 > my @x=(1,2,3); print map{@x}@x; 02:44:48 : parse error on input `=' 02:45:02 !perl my @x=(1,2,3); print map{@x}@x; 02:45:02 123123123 02:45:10 the list monad in Perl. :P 03:06:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:21:27 Do you like this? 03:22:35 How does Perl's lambda syntax manage to be more sensible than the syntax of a descendent language? 03:24:40 er, what exactly are Perl's descendent languages? Ruby? 03:25:10 zzo38: like what? 03:26:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:27:20 Sgeo_: well the syntax is just as sensible as any other sensible lambda syntax, but there are no named formal parameters, which might be considered not sensible. But this is a lack of sensibility in functions in general and not lambdas. 03:31:35 I kind of stopped paying attention to the lack of named parameters. 03:32:13 * Sgeo_ was referring to Ruby not Perl 03:32:41 you asked about Perl's syntax, there was my answer. 03:33:04 I'd say Ruby's is more or less sensible, but a bit wordy. 03:33:54 actually Perl's might be slightly wordier. 03:34:08 due to shifting and assigning parameter names 04:49:26 >_> 04:49:31 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 04:49:47 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 04:49:47 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 04:49:47 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 04:51:13 wouldn't (^) be slower than (**)? 04:53:42 :t (^) 04:53:43 forall a b. (Num a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a 04:54:15 > (maxBound :: Int)^(maxBound :: Int) 04:54:16 9223372036854775807 04:55:04 > (maxBound :: Integer)^(maxBound :: Integer) 04:55:05 No instance for (GHC.Enum.Bounded GHC.Integer.Type.Integer) 04:55:05 arising from... 04:55:10 oh right. 05:15:48 > (fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int))^(maxBound :: Int) 05:16:03 thread killed 05:16:06 I suppose that was a bit too large. 05:20:00 > (fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int))**(maxBound :: Int) 05:20:03 No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int) 05:20:03 arising from a use of... 05:20:52 > (fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int))**(fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int)) 05:20:53 Infinity 05:21:01 lulz 05:22:39 It'd have 05:22:43 > let i = fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int) in logBase 10 i * i 05:22:44 1.7492023358848572e20 05:22:50 That many digits. 05:26:50 f I were to name one of my strongest characteristics pertaining to software and programming I would say it's within Java and Visual Basics. I've been dealing with Visual Basics since my senior year of high school and the same with Java. 05:26:59 s/f/if/ 05:27:30 introduction of one of my fellow classmates for this intro to software engineering online class. I definitely want to pick him for our group projects. 05:31:07 i think what happens is that a plural becomes a singular 05:31:11 such as "the basics" 05:31:32 and then, when having learned "the basics" is not a plural... when one encounters the word basic 05:31:39 the plural can attach itself 05:31:57 none of that made any sense to me. 05:32:36 people say "the basics" to mean the introductory knowledge of some area 05:32:44 mmk 05:32:49 however, noone ever speaks of a single "basic" 05:32:58 it's always "the basics" 05:33:06 unless they're talking about the programming language called Visual Basic 05:33:23 in which case it's written as "Visual Basic" 05:33:59 well.. for different meanings i know basic is used as a word on its own 05:34:08 but for the meaning of "things to tell a newbie" 05:34:27 for the specific meaning of "things to tell a newbie" it is usually "the basics" 05:34:37 akin to "the ropes" 05:35:00 But there's VBA, and quite a lot of difference between the old-style VB and modern VB.NET. Perhaps e just means e knows all the Visual Basics. All of them. 05:35:14 yes that's possible. 05:35:27 But maybe he's just stupid as well. 05:35:44 That's also always possible. 05:36:13 so, i think that when giving someone an introduction to a subject is called "the basics" that.. "introduction" is singular and so "the basics" seems to also be singular 05:36:40 no that's not how it works. 05:36:59 i am not disputing that the word basic is often used without an s 05:37:05 Here I'll show you the basics, they /are/ pretty easy. 05:37:34 /they/ /are/, even. 05:38:10 that means "basics" is plural, fitting with most other english words. 05:39:00 i know that "visual basics" is flatout wrong, but, "visual basics" is a common spelling 05:39:19 and there must be a reason why this particular grammatical foible occurs so often 05:39:31 this is the first time I've seen it. 05:39:52 maybe it is stupidity to some degree 05:40:05 another similar one is in australia there are some stores called safeway 05:40:17 but some people call it safeways 05:40:30 safeways or safeway's? 05:40:40 i don't know as i don't call it that 05:40:56 it could be "safeway's" imitative of "mcdonald's" 05:41:17 hehe 05:43:07 glogbot: sup 05:45:17 aloril atehwa_ augur augur chickenzilla clog GreaseMonkey iamcal ineiros jcp jcp|other jix lifthrasiir mycroftiv myndzi rodgort sebbu shachaf SimonRC variable twice11 Wamanuz yiyus yorick Zwaarddijk: sup 05:45:27 :| 05:46:07 roll call / everybody get in here! 05:46:32 o.O 05:46:49 woah these people actually exist you just have to ping them. 05:46:54 ask and ye shall receive. 05:46:58 words of great wisdom. 05:47:59 what do you need 05:48:37 The #2 of the list (one spurious ping was enough, I guess) was speaking not more than a week or so ago. 05:48:59 As for #15, \o/ 05:49:00 | 05:49:00 /`\ 05:49:30 i haven't heard much from myndzi in a while 05:49:53 quintopia: I didn't ping you did I? o_o I guess since you asked: do you have any money I could have? 05:50:09 jcp|other: hello 05:50:17 you said "everybody get in here" 05:50:20 everybody includes me 05:50:23 augur: not sure why I pinged you actually. 05:50:25 aand no 05:50:30 quintopia: oh. 4chan meme. 05:50:31 i have no money 05:50:48 from harvey birdman: attorney at law. 05:54:18 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneGetInHere 05:55:03 that says everyone 05:55:07 you said everybody 05:55:11 ...... -_- 05:55:11 i sense discrrepancy 05:55:15 in the show it says everybody 05:56:21 http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity1741.html 05:56:46 @slap CakeProphet 05:56:46 * lambdabot pokes CakeProphet in the eye 05:58:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:59:02 oerjan 05:59:16 quintopia 05:59:26 what are you working on these days 05:59:32 A roaring oerjan. 05:59:44 nothing 05:59:59 need any help? 06:01:03 i'm a pro at doing nothing 06:01:12 any time you need assistance with that, feel free to ask 06:01:14 ok, mr. hobbes 06:01:21 > do Nothing 06:01:21 Nothing 06:02:43 > do do do do do do do do do do do Nothing 06:02:44 Nothing 06:02:50 I'm going to write all of my Haskell code this way from now on. 06:02:56 > Just $ do Nothing -- oh if only $ would be ... instead 06:02:57 Just Nothing 06:03:27 > let (...) = ($) in Just ... do Nothing 06:03:27 Just Nothing 06:03:39 it's not the same 06:03:47 @define (...) = ($) 06:04:01 > Just ... do Nothing 06:04:02 Not in scope: `...' 06:04:05 huh. 06:04:11 > [Just .. do Nothing] 06:04:11 Couldn't match expected type `a -> Data.Maybe.Maybe a' 06:04:11 against infe... 06:04:19 wat 06:04:27 oh wait 06:04:29 no Just parameter 06:04:32 no Enum 06:04:39 ...that too 06:04:53 The CPP with Haskelll doesn't work, it seem 06:05:02 At least, with GHCi 06:05:16 not by default no. 06:05:46 zzo38: there's a flag for it 06:05:51 But I typed > {-# LANGUAGE ForeignFunctionInterface, CPP #-} and I also put -XCPP that doesn't work either 06:06:17 oh is it a LANGUAGE pragma? hm. 06:06:33 Is it because it require # at the start of the line? It cannot go there because > is required at first 06:06:47 zzo38: oh that may be. 06:07:01 it wouldn't make # a new token I think it would just run the preprocessor first. 06:07:11 I wouldn't call it a syntax change, anyways. 06:08:15 http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/users_guide/options-phases.html#c-pre-processor indicates it's -fcpp 06:08:34 er 06:08:36 -cpp 06:08:41 OK, someone told me it was LANGUAGE pragma perhaps they are wrong, I will try -cpp instead 06:08:59 No, that is still error 06:09:04 > maybe (do Nothing) (fromMaybe $ Just Nothing) $ Just Nothing 06:09:05 Just Nothing 06:09:39 zzo38: i guess the c preprocessor is run before the > 's are removed 06:10:26 oh there is -XCPP listed under the language section 06:11:55 No it says the > are removed at first before the C preprocessor 06:12:27 In section 4.5.3 06:13:00 But it is also GHCi and I don't know if that makes a difference too 06:13:27 hm it seems so 06:14:49 what do your preprocessor lines with > look like? 06:15:21 It looks like: > #ifndef GHCi but removing the space so it is ># is still error 06:15:31 ah. 06:15:39 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:15:39 yeah that's what i was wondering 06:15:59 maybe ask on #haskell 06:16:27 I tried that too, yes 06:18:25 do you get an error message? 06:19:20 that table seems to imply you can ask for a .hspp file to see what it looks like after the c pre-processor stage 06:19:23 Yes I get message that says is parse error on input `#' 06:19:40 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 06:19:40 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 06:19:40 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 06:19:41 with -E 06:20:03 quintopia: if you're looking for something to do, run !wacro a few times until you find an acronym you like, name it, and then implement it (whatever it is...) 06:20:21 s/name/expand/ 06:20:37 CakeProphet: i was looking for nothing to do. you notice how readily i offered to help do nothing. 06:20:39 oh you said it's ghci 06:21:02 quintopia: sounds like you're already doing a great job then. 06:21:04 !wacro 06:21:05 PHGDNHMG 06:21:09 !wacro 06:21:09 ZBMMCBISSE 06:21:13 ... 06:21:35 too many letters in those. 06:22:21 wacro should take a parameter for length 06:22:34 I tried -pgmP f:\cygwin\bin\echo.exe in order to see exactly what command-line parameters are given to the C preprocessor 06:25:35 i think i found a relevant post: http://osdir.com/ml/glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org/2011-02/msg00037.html 06:26:10 I think C preprocessor is not the best kind of preprocessor for Haskell 06:26:14 it seems like the preprocessor directives should not have > , _even_ though they are run after the lhs stage 06:26:53 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:29:04 hm why should that be necessary... 06:30:09 !show 06:30:10 That is not a user interpreter! 06:30:15 !userinterps 06:30:15 ​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez wc yodawg 06:30:18 Yes they should not have > but the symbol GHCi is not even defined even though someone told me it is. Because I typed in ghci -pgmP f:\cygwin\bin\echo.exe I can see which symbols are defined in the preprocessor, and GHCi is not one of them. 06:30:24 !show wacro 06:30:24 perl (sending via DCC) 06:31:32 oh you want to do something depending on if you're started in ghci? 06:31:56 oerjan: http://pastebin.com/mDyuacbS 06:31:58 oerjan: Yes. Some things in the file are for GHCi only and others are only for not GHCi 06:32:10 (It is the only reason I used the C preprocessor) 06:32:47 oerjan: and, dictionary miner: http://paste2.org/p/1596859 06:33:32 with most spaces conveniently removed for clarity of purpose. 06:33:38 :) 06:33:41 Is there another way, such as using Template Haskell? Can Template Haskell be used to check for such thing? 06:33:51 i have no idea 06:36:31 zzo38: however when using ghci i often run other functions directly instead of main. maybe you could define another function for invoking then? 06:37:10 imain 06:39:18 can i somehow make the "extra key" between z and the left shift work as enter? 06:39:36 no. because it doesn't exist. 06:39:39 * oerjan runs away. 06:40:34 oerjan: This program has no main function; it is a library. But there are some things that it won't work in GHCi, such as foreign exports and import {-# SOURCE #-} and a few other things 06:40:51 i bet zzo38 would know 06:40:59 zzo38, how do i do that? 06:42:10 ok i have no experience with those things. 06:42:12 cheater: Doing what? Sorry I forgot 06:49:33 06:51:22 * pikhq sucks terribly at this "sleep" thing. 06:51:31 * pikhq has said this a lot. 06:51:36 It remains true. 06:52:16 pikhq: i am glad to hear you ascribe to the norm for this channel. 06:52:23 Whoo. 06:58:36 I cannot figure out how to check for GHCi. C preprocessor does not work, Template Haskell commands location and recover do not work... 07:03:02 maybe you could split into different modules 07:06:00 -!- Zetro has joined. 07:21:19 -!- cheater has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 07:39:06 elliott and PH and Taneb should be happy they're asleep right now. 07:39:22 Hussie is currently trolling everyone who checks updates constantly 07:39:50 By releasing 1 page updates in rapider than usual succession 07:40:03 around 20 min intervals 08:08:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:20:09 Why can't the Template Haskell "recover" command recover from illegal foreign declaration errors? 08:35:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:52:19 I finally figured out how to make it so that the foreign exports are ignored in GHCi, and at the same time making it so that you do not have to specify the type of the exported function if you have already written the type elsewhere in the program. 08:52:46 I used "runIO getArgs" in Template Haskell to check if it has "--interactive" at first. 09:06:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:21:13 -!- cheater has joined. 09:22:51 hi 09:44:12 where's ais when you need him 09:52:30 ohh i think i need to augument rules/evdev 09:52:44 -!- cheater has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 10:01:56 -!- cheater has joined. 10:17:29 FireFly: hade du tänkt komma till matten? 10:19:52 ._. Wrong channel again 10:36:11 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 10:49:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:51:05 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:03:20 CakeProphet: Y U HILIGHT ME 11:18:05 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:44:17 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:56:30 -!- boily has joined. 13:55:49 -!- Skaaarj has joined. 13:56:04 -!- Skaaarj has left. 14:07:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:08:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:09:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:25:04 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:27:02 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 14:51:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:55:23 OMG my school is going to let us buy our own labcoats BEST DAY EVER 14:56:44 Phantom_Hoover: I've been talkin' all summer about buying lab coats for the PL lab at Purdue :P 14:57:12 I think lab coats are basically the height of fashion among nerds. 14:57:30 Do you really need to wear lab coats for a PL lab? Hey, don't blame me if your lab doesn't do /legitimate/ science. 14:57:31 This is strange because I'm not going to touch a test tube after I leave school. 14:59:23 Gregor, coffee spills are a real occupational hazard. 14:59:38 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if he can get away with wearing it over his uniform all year. 15:44:46 what do you guys think of this layout http://pastebin.com/T1J7EpKa 15:44:56 the B in the lower left is a second backspace 15:57:54 cheater: I think I want to hurt you. 15:59:02 Phantom_Hoover, I assume you saw Homestuck updates? 16:00:04 Naturally, and then I a) realised that it probably wasn't EoA5, so Hussie LIED and b) went back to lab coat thoughts. 16:04:28 -!- nooga has joined. 16:04:43 -!- nooga has left. 16:04:50 -!- nooga has joined. 16:05:32 meh 16:11:39 !perl ("Hi everyone and welcome to the FIFTH DIMENSION" =~ / / 16:11:41 syntax error at /tmp/input.3289 line 1, at EOF 16:11:59 !perl ("Hi everyone and welcome to the FIFTH DIMENSION" =~ / (?{print pos." "})/) 16:12:00 Warning: Use of "pos" without parentheses is ambiguous at (re_eval 1) line 1. 16:12:07 !perl ("Hi everyone and welcome to the FIFTH DIMENSION" =~ / (?{print (pos)." "})/) 16:12:08 3 16:12:23 quintopia, GET OUT OF MY RSS FEEDS YOU BASTARD 16:12:45 !perl ()=("Hi everyone and welcome to the FIFTH DIMENSION" =~ / (?{print (pos)." "})/) 16:12:46 3 16:12:50 huh. 16:13:40 !perl @lol=("Hi everyone and welcome to the FIFTH DIMENSION" =~ / (?{print (pos)." "})/) 16:13:41 3 16:13:48 !perl @lol=("Hi everyone and welcome to the FIFTH DIMENSION" =~ / (?{print (pos)." "})/g) 16:13:49 3121624273137 16:14:07 !perl @lol=("Hi everyone and welcome to the FIFTH DIMENSION" =~ / (?{print pos," "})/g) 16:14:08 3 12 16 24 27 31 37 16:14:20 wooo... 16:14:39 * Phantom_Hoover realises that there aren't many future labcoat things he can do except wait until elliott turns up and goes livid with rage. 16:17:31 !perl fork while fork 16:17:41 oops 16:19:58 !perl sub a(){map fork, a} 16:20:03 !perl sub a(){map fork, a} a 16:21:29 Gregor, why 16:22:18 cheater: You actually have to reach /farther/ to get to any of the vital symbol keys in your new "improved" system. 16:22:43 Unless you're missing the smallest finger on each hand. 16:24:16 Gregor, i don't use them often at all. 16:24:22 Or, I suppose, if your hands are now supposed to be centered on sdfghjkl instead of asdfjkl;? 16:24:25 i use enter and backspace and ; often 16:24:28 In which case shifting is a pain 16:24:48 right hand fingers are on hjkl 16:24:55 on the new hjkl that is 16:24:55 *brain explodes. 16:24:59 nice 16:25:04 i may now quit 16:25:15 -!- cheater has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 16:25:15 So shift is, like, lightyears away from your hands :P 16:27:24 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 16:36:30 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 16:36:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:38:43 -!- cheater has joined. 17:05:24 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:07:22 Phantom_Hoover: how did i gett in your rss feeds 17:07:51 quintopia, Sam Hughes' response to your tweet. 17:09:11 quintopia: what. that was like yesterday or something. 17:09:21 i just addressed myself 17:09:37 i should get off the internet until im actually awake 17:16:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:18:48 who wants to try my new wonderful layout 17:18:53 it is wonderful 17:21:26 I was unable to access it because of bad gateway error 17:30:46 BLACK UMBRELLA 17:37:11 sorry zzo 17:37:29 it is not uploaded yet that was just a pastebin of how the layout looks 17:37:56 does your linux have xkb or xmodmap 17:38:31 I am not on Linux right now and in addition have no intention to adjust my keyboard layout anyways 17:41:26 But I did want to look but cannot access it 17:51:18 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:54:50 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: laundromat). 17:54:51 -!- Nihilist1andy has quit (Quit: laundromat). 17:56:23 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:00:30 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:11:05 "Thus, the application we'll be building is Twitter FOR ZOMBIES" 18:11:10 So.... boring... 18:14:14 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Fdewfzbi-ZkJ:www.addedbytes.com/blog/if-php-were-british/+If+PHP+Were+British&hl=en&client=safari&strip=1 18:14:30 elliottscript 2.0 18:18:09 nooga, was this, by any chance, made by an American? 18:19:44 i don;t know 18:22:40 Doesn't look like it. 18:30:11 Ruby's "10 million ways to do one thing" philosophy is killing e 18:30:12 me 18:31:26 an example? 18:32:09 -!- derrik has joined. 18:32:27 Tweet.update_attributes(), Tweet.attributes= then save, 18:32:30 -!- derrik has quit (Client Quit). 18:32:46 the_tweet[:whatever] = whatever the_tweet.save 18:33:01 For updating 18:33:11 wonderful 18:33:22 -!- derrik has joined. 18:33:32 Ways to create records, like two Tweet.new uses, and a Tweet.create that allows skipping the .save 18:34:49 why are you using ruby 18:34:51 For accessing attributes from an item 18:34:57 are you doing this on purpose 18:34:58 it's not ruby 18:35:01 it's rails 18:35:03 some_item[:name] and some_item.name 18:35:40 hash[:symbol] when you may want to pass a variable into [] 18:35:54 so anyways 18:36:02 i like the new layout 18:36:10 it is much more zen. 18:36:32 i like how you can do most without moving your palms at all 18:36:50 also 18:37:02 it is a big improvement indeed 18:37:05 Tweet.new just constructs the object so you may save it or not 18:37:11 and manipulate it 18:37:22 right hand is still a bit tricky but not overly so 18:37:27 #create is used for rather simple models 18:38:08 Nothing wrong with using ActiveRecord without Rails, right? 18:38:16 oh 18:38:29 Hypothetically, I mean 18:38:30 nooga 18:38:36 have you seen php on rails 18:38:40 maybe you should check out Mongo.DB 18:38:52 ?? 18:38:56 * Sgeo_ headaches 18:39:15 http://www.mongodb.org/ 18:39:21 or Redis 18:39:30 it's well suited for things like tweets 18:39:58 and does not have stuff like migrations 18:40:29 you just add keys in the model class and use it 18:40:42 and magical persistence happens 18:40:58 http://web.archive.org/web/20091103132947/http://phails.com/ 18:41:10 php on rails 18:41:36 php is a big mistake itself 18:42:00 they shouldn't make parodies with php 18:42:15 i know right 18:43:56 no, seriously -> http://www.phpontrax.com/ 18:44:02 it's real :D 18:49:05 The multiplicity of validators scares me 18:51:57 you are free to write before_filter and validate by hand 18:52:10 i mean before_save 18:53:08 validate { |rec| rec.errors << :invalid if i_have_a_bad_mood } 18:53:08 rec.errors[:something] that is 18:54:29 oh, rightt 18:55:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:56:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:56:15 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:03:44 -!- Taneb|Kindle has joined. 19:03:53 Wait, do I actually have to make the database myself in Rails? 19:04:03 Django automatically makes databases 19:04:06 Hello 19:04:42 Taneb|Kindle, Homestuck updates 19:04:47 Including a flash 19:05:00 Taneb|Kindle: Worst possible IRC device? 19:05:23 Better than my mobile 19:05:43 It works and it is free 19:06:18 IRC on a kindle? 19:06:27 Sgeo_ I cannot really see it until sometime in early September 19:06:54 Zetro and why not? 19:07:33 Taneb|Kindle: I have an eInk device, updates are ... less than ideal. If we were chattering away and it had conventional scrolling, it'd just be a mess. But does it have conventional scrolling? 19:07:40 Haven't seen anyone else using it for IRC :P 19:07:53 I do not eally jknow 19:08:10 Typing is somewhat awkward 19:09:17 Taneb|Kindle: Does text scroll like an IRC client on a computer, or in some other way? That is, when a new line appears, do all the current lines shift up? 19:09:37 kindle irc is worst irc 19:09:42 I dunno say more and I will tell you 19:09:59 Taneb|Kindle: Ohh, it hasn't even filled in a screen yet X-D 19:10:12 Taneb|Kindle: If it scrolls in some more stable way, then I see no reason why IRC on Kindle would be short of wonderful. 19:10:25 But if it scrolls whole-page, yukk. 19:10:29 I'd like to see a photo of IRC-on-an-eink-device 19:10:29 Keyboard is awkward 19:10:35 Taneb|Kindle: Better than no keyboard :) 19:10:43 FireFly: Dood, my eInk device has Debian on it :P 19:11:10 Heh 19:11:27 Scrolling is conventional 19:11:31 FireFly: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75336&stc=1&d=1312936864 19:11:43 Taneb|Kindle: Yeah, that's awful ... it'll go all smushy every time somebody says anything. 19:11:43 Using webchat 19:11:46 Ohhhhhhh 19:11:49 Then yeah :P 19:11:55 What you'd really want is round-robin "scrolling" 19:11:58 Aww, that looks too computery 19:12:15 FireFly: Whaddya expect, it's stock Debian :P 19:12:38 I wonder what the Kindle OS is called 19:12:47 I wonder how an IRC client that uses a book-like font for the IRC lines would look (on an e-ink device, that is) 19:19:18 -!- Taneb|Kindle has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:23:07 FireFly: Every font looks book-like on eInk. 19:23:15 Taneb|NotHere: Linux :P 19:23:17 "Thus, the application we'll be building is Twitter FOR ZOMBIES" 19:23:26 at least it'll be twitter with some brains... 19:23:33 BREAINISSSS 19:23:37 dfasgpeoitrhgeatrhg 19:23:54 what would you guys do without my input 19:24:05 * oerjan tosses oklopol a hitler's brain clone from iwc 19:24:11 :o 19:24:14 slewepw .> 19:33:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:34:19 ais523: Tell us, in your unending wisdom, what improvements Rezzo needs. 19:34:45 lasers. 19:34:50 I, um, don't know 19:35:11 his wisdom is unending because it never begins 19:35:17 oerjan: On freaking SHARKS 19:35:22 oerjan: heh 19:35:50 Gregor: what would happen if bots weren't blocked by wire? 19:36:00 as in, they can walk on top of wire 19:36:03 Gregor: i assume you have read the same recent iwc annotation as i 19:36:22 oerjan: ... no? 19:36:29 ais523: Then they could move around arbitrarily *shrugs* 19:36:32 oh? 19:36:42 Gregor: indeed 19:36:47 ais523: The possibility of making them able to walk on wire but be hurt/moved by electrons was once discussed. 19:36:52 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/3129.html from yesterday 19:37:01 that way, the game would be more about manipulating the WireWorld than blocking each other in 19:37:15 > 1220 / 170 19:37:16 7.176470588235294 19:37:31 oerjan: It is sad that you didn't get the reference in that comic, and thought I was referencing the comic >_ 19:37:32 *>_< 19:37:56 Gregor: well i vaguely understand it's an older meme 19:38:08 but i _still_ assumed you'd read the iwc 19:38:48 -!- yourstruly has changed nick to erytssiN. 19:38:55 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:39:02 -!- Taneb|Kindle has joined. 19:39:04 hm did iwc mention it even earlier... 19:40:04 Of course the main problem with IRC on a Kindle is tha it disconnects so easily 19:40:16 Taneb|Kindle: wait, did iwc remove the crossover table entirely? i thought it was in the archive pages... 19:40:46 Try in archive by themes 19:41:02 i did it wasn't there either 19:41:12 Huh 19:41:21 oh it's in the cast page 19:44:02 ok there seems to be no lasers mentioned in the jumping the shark arc 19:44:33 (http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/comic.php?current=983&theme=17&dir=next5) 19:45:42 -!- Taneb|Kindle has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:46:02 Ooh, IWC nerdfest! 19:51:34 It's from Austin Powers >_< 19:51:37 And you are all TERRIBLE 19:52:25 Gregor: was looking it up 19:53:27 i have never seen any austin powers movies, but i suspect them to be the kind of comedy that makes me flee a room. 19:56:31 And that's terrible. 20:03:28 -!- monqy has joined. 20:08:27 LOL I implemented the CA wrong in the first place because I'm awesomepants X_X 20:11:50 -!- elliott has joined. 20:12:07 elliott: HEY ELLIOTT I SUCK AT WIREWORLD 20:12:13 Gregor: ? 20:12:13 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 20:12:20 im sixteen hi 20:12:20 elliott: happy birthday 20:12:33 how could this happen 20:12:34 elliott: Oh yeah, happy American driving day and all that. 20:13:01 elliott: Anyway, the reason I was having so much trouble generating a substrate that wasn't crazyworld is that my wireworld rules were wrong :P 20:13:19 elliott: I forgot the part about /1 or 2/ electrons in the neighborhood, not >=1 :P 20:13:34 Gregor: Your substrate wasn't crazyworld? 20:13:46 elliott: No, but it took a lot of attempts to get it that way. 20:14:16 elliott: In my initial attempt, it pretty much blew up the moment you put any electron on it. It would dup at every corner. 20:14:51 Err, that is, every corner would turn into a shower of duplicates. 20:14:53 Forever and ever. 20:15:03 Right. That happens when you try to play on this field :P 20:15:07 See: tantrum 20:15:33 elliott: so you're 16 now? congratulations, that makes you old enough to be 16 years old 20:15:40 Oh no, Vorpal found rezzo. Gregor: How painful are the logs? 20:15:54 olsner: hooray 20:16:47 elliott: "How painful are the logs"? 20:17:21 Gregor: when vorpal talks things get painful to read 20:17:22 how painful 20:17:42 I only pay attention in short bursts :P 20:17:50 Ooh, SDL nastiness: the X11 OpenGL glue does a thing ISO C requires a diagnostic for, namely casts a void * (from dlsym) to a function pointer type. Shame on it. 20:18:31 anyone know how to force Mesa into software emulation mode? 20:18:44 and pretend that it's using the graphics card directly? 20:18:55 fizzie: That's unavoidable without functions only added in recent POSIX I think... 20:19:11 oh, looks like the EOA got posted 20:19:47 fizzie, elliott: Yeah, the only way around it that I know if is unportable. It's a diagnostic that's literally unavoidable. 20:20:10 There's a really ugly-syntax workaround advertised by the POSIX dlsym documentation. You simply write "int (*func)(int); ...; *(void **)&func = dlsym(...);" -- since pointer-to-function-pointer is obviously an object pointer, the cast is valid. 20:20:23 Sure it's unportable, but the act of casting to a function pointer in itself is unportable. 20:20:29 Right. 20:20:56 elliott: Anyway, my fix to the underlying CA has me somewhat disappointed with flags again. 20:21:39 22:53:12: but i dont hear many people criticizing NYTimes 20:21:39 you're not listening hard enough 20:21:41 Gregor: Why? 20:22:30 ais523: I was pretty sure there was some environment variable to do that, but mesa's envvar documentation page doesn't seem to have any "choose-a-driver" variables. 20:22:35 elliott: In a situation that would cause a flag to become a surrogate tail, it instead dissipates ... but flags dissipating seems grotty to me. Actually I guess what I'm unhappy with is that 2x width wires are just always gross and horrible in Wireworld X-D 20:22:35 Vorpal really wants us to know all about his favourite newspaper. 20:22:41 (>=2x that is) 20:22:48 fizzie: And those would probably expose the in-use driver to the code. 20:22:55 Especially if they getenv :P 20:22:57 fizzie: it seems plausible that there is one 20:22:58 although the standard says it's not supported, is a cast to a function pointer type actually any less portable than that other monstrosity? 20:23:17 elliott: I don't mind the code knowing what driver's in use, so long as it doesn't arbitrarily decide to /not start/ because there isn't a GPU available 20:23:19 * ais523 silently rages 20:23:32 ais523: are you... testing GPGPU programs? 20:23:37 is that what the Secret is? 20:24:02 elliott: no, I'm not 20:24:07 darn 20:24:15 well, not in a way related to the secret project, at least 20:24:16 would you say that even to a correct guess? :) 20:24:33 23:32:46: Gregor, btw the time system currently is unfair. I suggest basing it on CPU time instead somehow. After all, who knows what other process suddenly decides to run 20:24:34 I'm not entirely sure of the context again, but if it's a version of Mesa provided by you, you could simply only compile in support for the software rasterizer driver. 20:24:34 23:33:16: Vorpal: I have decided to instead write a system that's actually implementable. 20:24:34 23:33:26: (It's unfair, but it's equally unfair to all contestants) 20:24:41 Gregor: You can just test the CPU time of the processes. 20:24:52 That's nonportable, but perfectly fair. 20:25:02 Technically frames could last a lot longer though. 20:25:34 23:35:55: CakeProphet: Everything I've done in C has been way, way, way faster than it needed to be, so it's not like it's cutting it close. 20:25:39 elliott: How does CPU time get counted while you're e.g. swapping? You're just not running? 20:25:39 Gregor: Have you written anything that does any thinking at all 20:25:51 elliott: No, but the point is that I/O isn't a problem :P 20:25:53 When the process isn't running CPU time doesn't increase :P 20:26:13 elliott: I'm not going to lie about this, it would ruin all the fun 20:26:16 Right, so if it's just blocking, I'll block with it. 20:26:19 besides, I'm really bad at lying 20:26:25 it's part of the reason I'm such an honest person 20:26:28 23:38:35: Cells have a damage value (which is completely independent of the CA) 20:26:28 23:38:59: ew 20:26:28 23:39:04: and the client can't see it 20:26:28 23:39:08: just ew 20:26:28 Shut up shut up shut up shut up. 20:26:37 because if I did lie, it wouldn't have the desired effect 20:26:50 Gregor: Or some other process could be running instead of the warrior while it's thinking and you'd stop waiting for it... 20:27:10 ais523: The internets tell me you can set LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1, but I can't find out where that is documented, just a lot of cases of people using it. 20:27:25 23:42:54: Gregor, anyway hm I would make my client for the game multi-threaded. 20:27:26 No shit. 20:27:48 fizzie: hmm, I'll set it and see if it does anything 20:27:56 23:46:15: heh, elliott and I used the same characters for the same states. 20:28:02 Gregor and I, you mean. Though I did fix them. 20:28:30 23:48:40: That sounds like a good way to get the best possible score for the OOM killer. 20:28:30 "You win!" 20:28:36 You prize is DEATH. 20:28:54 23:53:50: Gregor, anyway 64 MB isn't much 20:28:54 23:53:57: Gregor, not if you are using haskell 20:28:55 Uhhhhhhhhh 20:28:59 Do you know anything? Like, at all? 20:29:31 elliott: I'm considering changing the rules for building so that you cannot build fat wires or squares or whatnot. Tell me not to. 20:29:32 Unless you have a memory leak, which is -- amazing, I know -- possible in any language, Haskell will not use more memory than, like, Python with the same structures. 20:29:39 Less because of no object overhead. 20:29:47 Yes, String is inefficient, so don't use String. 20:29:58 Gregor: What, so it just arbitrarily stops you building a perfectly possible conductor arrangement? 20:30:10 ais523: Gah. It *is* documented in the Mesa environment variable page -- http://www.mesa3d.org/envvars.html -- it's the fourth thing there, in the obvious place, and I have no idea how I simply didn't see it there. 20:30:13 elliott: Yeah >_> 20:30:26 fizzie: thanks 20:30:31 Gregor: No, don't. 20:30:37 elliott: The thing is, we had this notion of electrons being a sort of scarce resource, but you can easily make a structure that just barfs a billion of 'em. 20:30:44 23:59:13: Gregor, anyway 64 MB each precludes many high level languages 20:30:44 You know LITERALLY NOTHING. 20:30:55 (Setting it didn't do anything for me, but that's probably because the version of libGL things here link to is provided by the nvidia binary blob.) 20:30:56 SDL_GL_LoadLibrary() failed: No dynamic GL support in video driver 20:30:59 Gregor: Electrons being scarce is stupid and you're stupid for wanting it. 20:31:00 * ais523 continues raging at SDL/GL 20:31:13 Gregor: Having to find one ring is cool, but c'mon, the game is hard enough already for the warriors :P 20:31:35 00:00:58: Vorpal: Uh, Minecraft genuinely doesn't *use* more than 256MiB of heap. 20:31:35 Unless you set it up, which literally everyone does. 20:31:44 perhaps I should check the SDL docs, or the error message 20:32:46 01:30:07: Is it me, or is Epigram really, really ugly? 20:32:53 The current version of Epigram doesn't even have syntax. 20:33:00 elliott: Basically, here's the thing I don't like about the current situation with how everything interacts: You can trivially break any flag-stealing effort by just pooping conductor around your flag geysers. 20:33:24 Gregor: Well, replace building altogether rather than just arbitrarily restricting it. 20:33:32 elliott: OK, replace it how? 20:34:01 01:58:06: `run sed 's/implementatino/implementation/g' -i quotes 20:34:01 01:58:08: No output. 20:34:09 `run sed 's/implementation/implementatino/g' -i quotes 20:34:14 No output. 20:34:16 He didn't say "implementation", he said "implementatino". 20:34:20 `quote awk 20:34:21 lol 20:34:22 611) Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk 20:34:35 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:34:36 01:58:50: That's neat 20:34:37 I pioneered HackEgo sed-editing so stop giving credit to that terrible distorter. 20:34:43 Yes, DISTORTER 20:34:56 I un-tort things. 20:35:14 02:05:12: reasoning about the performance of regex is kind of difficult actually.... 20:35:14 02:05:29: Yeah, but you can make some broad guesses :P 20:35:14 Backrefs: The worst. 20:35:56 elliott: We're talkin' like 6 orders of magnitude here. 20:36:54 Gregor: I'm not saying his paranoia wasn't stupid, just that reasoning about regexps is only hard if you use the crappy algorithm because you want backrefs, which are nearly useless :P 20:37:01 ais523: Thanks to synchronicity, the function called by SDL_GL_LoadLibrary for the 'x11' video driver (X11_GL_LoadLibrary) is in fact exactly the one that did the cast-a-void-pointer thing. 20:37:13 elliott: Anyway, help me fix rezzo D-'8 20:37:21 My birthday present to you is that request^WDEMAND 20:37:27 aha, and that statement plus my Googling's giving me a clue as to what's going on 20:37:34 presumably, SDL_GL_LoadLibrary sees that it's running in framebuffer 20:37:55 Awwww, all the forums I've ever registered at that demanded an age are sending me email. Apart from ones where I didn't even bother to be honest about the day and month. 20:37:56 and the framebuffer GL support is pretty sloppy 20:38:27 elliott: presumably you had to systematically lie about the year until you turned 13 20:38:32 or did you not register at forums back then? 20:38:46 ais523: I never stopped lying :P 20:39:07 I'm lying _right now_ 20:39:23 elliott: well, you didn't have to lie any more, but perhaps you could lie anyway 20:41:00 I don't see why they should know my birth date 20:41:13 or just about everything else they ask for, to be honest 20:42:13 07:39:22: Hussie is currently trolling everyone who checks updates constantly 20:42:13 07:39:50: By releasing 1 page updates in rapider than usual succession 20:42:13 07:40:03: around 20 min intervals 20:42:13 No, that's just how updates used to go; he uploads panels right after making them. 20:42:15 14:55:23: OMG my school is going to let us buy our own labcoats BEST DAY EVER 20:42:15 YESSSSSSSSSS 20:42:18 SO JEALOUS 20:42:20 BIRTHDAY RUINED 20:42:29 Lesse what Wikipedia has to say ... 20:42:31 ais523: At least the X server needs to offer the GLX extension in order for things to work out at all, I'd believe. I'm not sure if that happens if you're using the fbdev video output option. 20:42:32 England and Wales 20:42:32 The age of consent in England and Wales is 16 regardless of sexual orientation and/or gender, as specified by the Sexual Offences Act 2003.[44] However, if person A is over the age of 18 and in a position of trust over person B who is under the age of 18, it is illegal for A to engage in sexual activity with B.[45] 20:42:45 "position of trust" lololol 20:42:49 16:14:39: * Phantom_Hoover realises that there aren't many future labcoat things he can do except wait until elliott turns up and goes livid with rage. 20:42:49 PRECISELY 20:42:53 elliott, happy I SHALL HAVE LABCOAT HAH 20:43:09 Gregor: Why did you just look up information about the age of consent. 20:43:21 elliott: FOR YOUR BENEFIT 20:43:40 monqy, incidentally, I hate you. 20:43:41 perhaps I need to put X in there too 20:43:51 fb support seems kind-of buggy in a lot of programs that notionally support it 20:43:57 I keep asking random people for "friendship " and it's crippling 20:44:01 X generally wants to run as root, though 20:44:17 ais523: No? Xephyr or something. 20:44:27 sometimes I forget if I started things or if it was actually elliott 20:44:31 `addquote I keep asking random people for "friendship " and it's crippling 20:44:33 614) I keep asking random people for "friendship " and it's crippling 20:44:40 ais523: Oh, you don't actually have a X server there? You mean you were using SDL's "fbcon" video driver or something? 20:44:42 "Pass the friendship salt, please." 20:44:44 fizzie: yes 20:45:04 OMG, I so want to fix the HEWW out of building >_< 20:45:11 elliott, I got a friendship smint, but I didn't get a friendship prefect badge. 20:45:28 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:45:52 19:10:12: Taneb|Kindle: If it scrolls in some more stable way, then I see no reason why IRC on Kindle would be short of wonderful. 20:45:57 Gregor: Have you seen those keyboards? 20:46:11 Phantom_Hoover: Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. 20:46:14 ais523: Well, yes, I don't think that thing has a GL_LoadLibrary callback at all. I suppose what *might* be possible would be Xorg + fbdev + Mesa + SDL 'x11' video driver, assuming X can provide the GLX extension in that sort of setup. 20:46:23 elliott: Well, it'd be a mostly reading-only activity :P 20:46:35 Gregor: Maybe for YOU type type type type type 20:46:42 `quote implementati 20:46:44 611) Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk 20:46:52 bah 20:47:16 http://www.mobileread.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75336&stc=1&d=1312936864 20:47:21 Gregor: Incidentally, is that xvkbd scaled or something? 20:47:26 Or is that thing just lollowdpi 20:47:36 elliott: It's scaled in a weird way. 20:47:47 elliott: The DPI is actually friggin' enormous 20:47:57 I think Perl is a programming language too. Although, AWK is very good for the kind if stuff it is good for, of course. Not for most other things, but it can be used. 20:48:07 -!- derrik has quit (Quit: over and out). 20:48:25 `addquote I think Perl is a programming language too. [...] 20:48:27 615) I think Perl is a programming language too. [...] 20:48:32 A controversial opinion 20:49:23 Waaaah I wanna fix rezzo 'cuz it's totes borklebork. 20:49:49 Gregor: I've forgotten the name of your fancy eInkThing again. 20:49:57 fizzie: IREX DR800 20:50:03 But of course! 20:50:19 The T-Rex two thousand, I'll be sure to remember that in the future. 20:51:38 Also, http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2025 20:51:42 (You said "T-Rex" :P ) 20:51:54 160 DPI is not "friggin' enormous" now that phones go to 300+. 20:52:32 (See, I only wanted the name to MOCK it.) 20:53:00 My computer is one hundred twenty. :p 20:53:19 Really, it's only 160DPI? 20:53:28 I would do the math, but ew, math. 20:53:52 Gregor: Well, I'm going by http://www.the-ebook-reader.com/dr-800-review.html .. but 1024x768 at 8.1" comes to something like that. 20:54:33 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:55:30 Yeah, I guess that's right. 20:55:31 Huh. 20:57:41 math. not even once. 20:57:54 The laptop here does 140 DPI. (1920x1080 and the diagonal by quick measurement is 15.75" -- though I think "officially" it's 15.6".) 20:58:56 -!- elliott has joined. 20:59:52 Oh, elliott was gone? 21:00:08 I was busy making sure nobody could bother me for a few minutes :P 21:00:17 There, I've read all four messages I missed. 21:00:44 So now it's time to FIX REZZO 21:01:07 OK so firstly you should eliminate electrons. 21:01:13 You should have to... use enemy flags... as electrons. 21:01:15 I'm a genius. 21:01:19 Maybe the rings just contain tails. 21:01:28 `addquote OK so firstly you should eliminate electrons. 21:01:29 Tails which somehow don't dissipate :P 21:01:30 616) OK so firstly you should eliminate electrons. 21:01:47 sed 's/ELEC/POSI/g' -i *.{h,c} 21:01:49 Done 21:02:42 Gregor: Do tails have to dissipate? 21:02:47 They could just sit still, all lonely-like. 21:02:55 elliott: That's CRAZITUDE 21:03:01 elliott: The question is, do FLAGS have to dissipate? 21:03:22 Yes. You use flags instead of electricity. 21:03:29 Thy replace electrons. Obviously. 21:03:30 They. 21:03:34 (Heads.) 21:04:04 I still am not a big fan of lightspeed flags ... may need to adopt CakeProphet's and/or your crazy "death flags" (with a less stupid name) concept for that to work. 21:04:29 'cuz then it's more about connecting the right circuits than "oh shit there goes my flag lol I lose" 21:04:55 Death flags are stupid. 21:05:02 I was being stupid when I was suggesting them :P 21:05:22 I know. 21:05:30 And you shouldn't have mentioned it :P 21:06:37 Maybe what I really want is just a more elegant way to prevent flags being surrogate tails. 21:09:25 Gregor: What if agents carried flags, and hitting an agent (even just once) made them drop their flag, and flag next to base = win for base. Then the CA part would be TOTALLY USELESS X-D 21:09:39 elliott: PURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRFECT 21:11:57 elliott: Incidentally, ais523 suggests that wires shouldn't be walls. 21:11:58 -!- AndGregor has joined. 21:12:19 Gregor: What, you just jump over them? 21:12:25 elliott: or stand on them 21:12:42 it'd make it impossible to block in the opponent, making the wireworld part more interesting than the forming fences part 21:12:42 (Making the agents not a part of the CA proper at all) 21:13:04 (It's not like the agent states actually do anything in the CA :P ) 21:13:13 Plus, then we could have electrocutable agents :) 21:13:48 If to build a fence you have to build a 3x-wide row and then electrify it, that's at least a bit more interesting than "I just pooped out some wire" 21:14:15 heh, that sounds fun 21:14:16 elliott: or stand on them 21:14:19 ais523: Breaks the CA property. 21:14:24 (Making the agents not a part of the CA proper at all) 21:14:25 (It's not like the agent states actually do anything in the CA :P ) 21:14:34 Having invisible objects that aren't part of the grid is stupid and wrong and I won't stand for it. 21:14:39 elliott: no it doesn't necessarily, you could just have a bot+wire state 21:14:39 (That you can nevertheless see) 21:14:41 Not invisible. 21:14:49 Yes invisible, they're not on the grid, the grid is the world. 21:14:58 and decide whether bot+electron and bot+tail were allowed or not 21:15:00 On top makes the world non-two-dimensional, which is stupid. 21:15:12 elliott: That is the stupidest reason I've ever heard :P 21:15:33 The actual agents have always been effectively outside the CA, the question is just whether they have avatars within the CA or not. 21:16:16 I will like kill five people if you make agents not part of the CA. ACTUAL DEATH will occur. 21:16:27 elliott: Those people were probably jerks anyway. 21:16:34 One of them is YOU. 21:16:40 elliott: I'd like to see you try! 21:16:49 elliott: Plus, I think that having electrocutable agents was originally YOUR idea. 21:17:03 (Switching to phone --> AndGregor) 21:17:22 Gregor: It was a JOKE :P 21:18:05 -!- Zetro has changed nick to zetro. 21:18:27 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:20:46 -!- zetro has changed nick to Zetro. 21:22:03 The more I think about it, the more there is /no damned reason/ to have agents be states. 21:22:47 I feel like I'm overdosing on magic 21:23:14 In routing, to point to a method new on a controller TweetsController, you point to.... "Tweets#new" 21:23:17 (in RoR) 21:25:08 AndGregor: Because I WANT THEM TO BE. 21:25:46 Sgeo_: Things there is approximately 0 interest in this channel for excepting you: Twitter, Ruby on Rails, the intricacies of Ruby on Rails' routing system. 21:25:57 Good reason :P 21:26:54 I'm only talking about "Twitter" because that's the example this thing is using 21:27:15 Twitter, and zombies 21:27:52 lion go RoR 21:33:29 OK, advantages of agents as states: Save ten bytes per message. elliott will kill otherwise. Disadvantages: useless extra states, focus on wall-building, no possibility for player-electron interaction. 21:33:54 You can have player-electron interaction. 21:34:04 My electrocution involved NO overlapping. 21:34:53 ...how can agents as states save bytes, won't it add to the bytes of every other cell as well? 21:35:17 oerjan: Eh? 21:36:18 if you encode the field in a message, but presumably you don't if you think what i'm saying makes no sense 21:36:20 -!- Zetro has changed nick to zetro. 21:37:02 oerjan: It makes no sense for reasons other than that :) 21:37:10 oerjan: A state is one byte, we're not packing them into bits or anything. 21:37:14 That would be ridiculous as far as processing goes. 21:37:27 ok :( 21:38:54 Yeah, we tried to minimize processing overhead. 21:39:10 Even at the cost of bandwidth. 21:39:30 oerjan: ? :( 21:39:38 AndGregor: Whole BYTES of bandwidth :P 21:41:30 elliott: What advantage does agent-as-state have other than your ego? 21:41:55 AndGregor: I like it, and having things not on the board affect the board/be affected by the board is really weird. 21:42:04 Why would you get electrocuted by something on a different plane? 21:42:15 ectoplasm. 21:42:19 Also, saves bytes and processing; the view shows all the things existing in the view. 21:42:52 -!- zetro has changed nick to Zetro. 21:43:13 But you can't process an agent meaningfully anyway, since it doesn't behave like a CA state. 21:44:49 Yes it does, just an inert one. 21:44:53 You can draw out the ruletable easily. 21:44:58 Or rather, obviously you can do some processing, but in a totally different way than the rsst 21:44:59 AndGregor: You can process it in that all your bot by merging it into your worldstate... 21:45:20 AndGregor: Anyway, consider, like, if you walk into your opponent's base, your agent cell dissipates and you lose :P 21:46:20 ... 21:46:23 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:46:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 21:47:33 I disagree SO HARD, but need a keyboard 21:48:12 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: FireFly). 21:48:22 X-D 21:51:13 hmm, apparently, as of this month, it's illegal in Missouri for teachers and their students to be Facebook friends 21:51:47 OK, so: 21:52:02 ais523: cool 21:52:20 that sounds like a bizarre sort of law to enact 21:52:55 ais523: it's part of the "protect the children" mania 21:53:09 hmm, I don't see how that would protect children, but fair enough 21:53:35 1) The argument that it makes it easy to merge into the worldview is shallow, you're already assuming that the way you want to merge it in is by having one giant grid with both agents and state. But that's not the only and certainly not the best way; if you see an agent twice, you should be able to update its location more easily than running through the entire board until you find the old copy, removing it, then changing it (you could keep this information sep 21:53:35 arately either way, but it's faster to keep it separate if it's separate in the first place) 21:53:47 2) Manually separating it is slower than manually merging it. 21:54:43 3) My proposed way of showing agent locations is ten bytes, each of which is either 255 (not here) or an offset into the viewbox, so it takes just ten compare-and-updates to conflate them. 21:54:53 (3 might be 2b :P ) 21:55:56 4) Agents just aren't meaningfully states! They don't act like states! They update in a different period, and their behavior on their whole neighborhood is nondeterministic. That just ain't a state! 21:56:29 I don't consider their actions on the neighbourhood to be done by the agent cells 21:56:39 But I DO think you can do useful interactions based on agent cells dissipating resulting in the loss of the agent 21:57:19 You could do that without them being states. 21:57:24 In fact, them being states in no way aids doing that. 21:57:50 It just makes the communication more bidirectional. 21:57:57 Yes it does, if you do it directly in the CA rules :) 21:58:42 But doing it directly in the CA rules doesn't keep anything simpler or more pure, agents' behavior depends on their state in the agent phase anyway. 21:59:12 Er rr 21:59:16 s/state/neighborhood/ 21:59:36 :< 22:01:05 Honestly, I'd say the biggest argument is that seeing an agent has known nonlocal effects on your worldview (it is not in its previous location, no matter where that was) 22:01:26 The whole "there exists exactly one cell of this state" thing is weird for a CA. 22:01:55 (Well, maybe not the biggest argument, but something :P ) 22:02:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:02:54 My dead pixel is still here :( 22:03:09 The whole "there exists exactly one cell of this state" thing is weird for a CA. 22:03:10 CLONING. 22:03:20 Yeah, no. 22:03:29 -!- AndGregor has quit (Quit: Bye). 22:04:03 Yeah, yes. 22:05:32 TIME FOR VOTING 22:06:16 With only two interested parties :P 22:07:45 I guess fundamentally, I'm now agreeing with ais523 that having conductors be walls = bad, but if they're not walls and agents are still states, then we have shitloads of stupid states. 22:08:24 I don't see why you can't say that they're notionally states that are orthogonal to the other states (all of them, or many of them) 22:08:35 and yet design the API to transmit the information in a more easily-parsed way 22:09:20 ais523: Other than saying the word "state", that is in no way distinct from having them not be states, and besides, if they're truly orthogonal than why even bother? 22:09:30 Gregor: that's my point 22:09:35 there is no real difference between your two points of view 22:09:43 so why are you so adamant about sticking to them, both of you? 22:09:50 No, his view is that they are /true states/. 22:09:51 it's as bad as the whole tuition fees thing 22:09:55 They actually have update rules in the CA. 22:10:03 The update rules are always "lol nothing happened" 22:10:04 I would tend to disagree with that viewpoint 22:10:04 Gregor: and that's not equivalent to your view how? 22:10:17 ais523: They can't move into conductors. 22:10:23 Or electrons, bases, geysers, anything. 22:10:33 why can't you have a conductor+actor state? 22:10:51 my view of all this, incidentally, was to add conductor+actor, and /maybe/ conductor+tail and conductor+electron 22:10:54 ais523: Why is wire=wall bad? 22:11:13 elliott: for gameplay reasons, because it makes it very hard to move around the map, and makes the whole wireworldiness mostly irrelevant as a result 22:11:15 Gregor: You said recently that each process running under UML shows up as a host process; was this in fact a fact? I would have assumed that it'd run its own internal copy of the task/process scheduler; and indeed http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/old/kernel.html says "UML runs its scheduler independently of the host scheduler - the host scheduler simply implements the decisions made by the UML scheduler." 22:11:20 it's going to be more of a wallbuilding game than anything else 22:11:26 ais523: "Very hard" 22:11:31 Only with the current substrate generator, and not REALLY. 22:11:39 My strategy is to go 'round making concentric rings around my base. Now the enemy won't even ever SEE where my base is, let alone be able to get to it. 22:11:43 I'd be cool about making destroying take one tick. 22:11:50 elliott: yes, because the optimal strategy is clearly to surround your base with a whole load of walsl 22:11:53 Gregor: Unless they go inside. 22:11:54 *walls 22:12:01 ais523: Not if destroying takes one tick and moves you into the cell. 22:12:04 Gregor: why concentric rings? just make a solid wall 22:12:09 Then it can literally be the same action as movement. 22:12:12 ais523: I'm just talking about how I'm making the solid wall. 22:12:19 elliott: ah, OK, so you think that actors should be able to walk on conductors but destroy them in the process 22:12:21 Gregor: fair enough 22:12:28 elliott: Now my strategy is to find the enemy base and destroy literally freaking everything. 22:12:32 ais523: Well, that's an odd way of looking at it, but sure :P 22:12:33 elliott: It'll take me no time. 22:12:45 elliott: And they'll never be able to get my flag because I destroy everything. 22:12:47 Gregor: Except that then you have to run a really long table which the enemy can also destroy easily. 22:12:51 cable 22:12:53 Not table :P 22:12:58 OK, make it take two hits. 22:13:02 elliott: No, you don't have to run a cable ... 22:13:15 This isn't a winning strategy :P 22:13:21 It's a stalematin' strategy. 22:13:30 there's no reason /not/ to run a cable 22:13:41 then you might win by chance, and stalemate the rest of the time 22:13:57 elliott: With two hits, we're back to making giant walls. If you just fill the whole friggin' world with walls, they'll never find your base. 22:15:07 Yes you have to run a cable? 22:15:11 Your base is far away from the flag.s. 22:15:17 But okay. 22:15:28 This isn't a winning strategy :P 22:15:28 It's a stalematin' strategy. 22:18:55 "But okay." 22:19:39 So where do we stand? X-P 22:21:10 I stand that obviously things need fixing but I'm not convinced that the right fix necessarily involves de-stating agents. 22:21:25 Well, let's focus on fixing flag annoyance then. 22:21:53 The problem with flags right now is that they tend to not even make it around corners, and just barfing conductors everywhere is a pretty good way to kill flag-trails. 22:24:11 Actually ... why don't they? X-P 22:24:59 I don't know, because we don't have any bots at all that do anything useful :P 22:25:23 Well, the thing is, I'm yet to see a bot even move a flag past a corner /by coincidence/ 22:25:26 And I've run a lot of 'em. 22:27:55 OK, actually, I think there must be an implementation issue ._. 22:28:17 OHNOWAIT 22:28:18 I see the issue 22:28:47 http://sprunge.us/CUEE 22:29:41 idgi 22:29:49 Note the flag dissipating in the last frame. 22:30:11 Yeah, why 22:30:14 When it goes around a corner, you'll get the electron replaced with a flag, but ALSO moving to the other location it would have moved to on the corner. 22:30:30 Then, the flag dissipates because it's by an electron, and the electron dissipates because it has a flag and no tail. 22:30:46 (Err, wait, rather, that electron just doesn't become a flag, I did the last update wrong, but the point is the flag dissipates) 22:31:16 http://sprunge.us/KbEJ (corrected final state) 22:31:24 So what's the fix :P 22:33:17 Good question. 22:33:28 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:33:32 -!- elliott_ has joined. 22:33:39 Guys, I found the STUPIDEST PERSON. 22:33:45 who what 22:33:52 Lambda calculus is useful if you want to prove theorems; not so much if you want to write software. After all, the whole notion of "no side effects" is quite ludicrous, and basically means "a pure functional program cannot actually do anything". So in that sense, I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus... 22:34:09 Wow 22:34:32 why is he speaking 22:34:37 -!- Gregor has set topic: I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 22:34:51 Gregor: To be fair to that part, it's in terms of what to teach first... 22:34:53 But come the fuck on. 22:34:55 it makes me sad................ 22:35:36 Guys, I have a plan. 22:35:50 Pointers and lambda are useful for different things, both are useful 22:35:53 er, wow, I just encountered the abbreviation "irlol", which I think probably means "in real life laugh out loud" 22:35:54 Anyone who talks about programming ever who doesn't understand what functional programming is will be shot and then buried in an unmarked grave. 22:36:00 how depressing that that even exists 22:36:04 I am now going to implement it. 22:36:05 ais523: that's great 22:36:54 elliott_: Umm ... I have the WORST POSSIBLE fix ... 22:37:03 Gregor: Sweet 22:37:21 elliott_: Conductor next to electron -> electron. Conductor next to electron AND flag -> flag. 22:37:34 Sounds good. 22:37:35 :P 22:37:39 BRB 22:37:59 elliott_: interestingly, references (i.e. "a common special case of pointers") turn out to be most fruitfully made a core language feature in mathematical models of programming 22:38:15 although you can simulate them because TCness, it's hard to prove anything about the result 22:39:02 elliott_: Ohwait, but then flags don't ever disappear, you just fill shit with flags >_< 22:44:29 "They own 69 percent of the total debt, which includes money the U.S. government owes itself." 22:44:37 Money... the government... owes itself? 22:44:49 economics are pretty silly, aren't they? 22:45:03 Oh, derp, I guess things like programs etc. 22:45:07 If I export a type from a Haskell module, will it export the constructors or not? 22:45:10 Erm, well, everything 22:46:14 Sgeo_: Different branches borrowing from each other. 22:48:58 back 22:49:48 elliott_: interestingly, references (i.e. "a common special case of pointers") turn out to be most fruitfully made a core language feature in mathematical models of programming 22:49:48 although you can simulate them because TCness, it's hard to prove anything about the result 22:49:55 I disagree with this 22:50:13 Models of certain types of languages, sure. 22:51:10 elliott_, know any good lightweight PDF readers for windows? 22:51:19 Vorpal: Sumatra. 22:51:20 I seem to remember you mentioned one some time ago 22:51:21 ah 22:52:47 elliott_, the bg colour hurts, I hope I can change that 22:52:56 What bg colour? 22:53:05 elliott_, the yellow on starting the program 22:53:20 That doesn't display with any document open, and nobody starts a reader without opening a pdf. 22:53:24 hm true 22:53:29 it started itself first time 22:53:38 You can't even open Evince without opening it manually in GNOME :) 22:53:41 Well, in Ubuntu at least 22:53:53 elliott_, I generally run it from the command line so. 22:54:02 With gnome-open 22:54:06 Nobody uses cmd in Windows ;-) 22:54:12 true 22:54:20 * Vorpal forces elliott_ to use powershell 22:56:09 Argh, these flag rules ARGH 22:56:28 -!- zzo38 has left. 22:57:29 Gregor, what? 22:57:38 "-bg-color $color change the yellow background color to a provided color in hex format (e.g. 0xffff00) 22:57:38 " 22:57:39 change the game then 22:57:44 You can change the shortcut 22:57:49 Vorpal: I'm TRYING TO 22:57:53 I can't figure out good flag rules 22:57:58 I see 22:59:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:00:01 Hmmm, this rule might be better. electron -> tail. tail -> if flags & no electron then flag else conductor. flag -> if tail and no electrons then conductor else flag. 23:01:23 Gregor, what happens if you make all the world a conductor and add an electron in it? 23:01:47 With tail? 23:01:48 Or without 23:01:57 elliott_, I'm interested in both 23:02:05 Which direction is the tail 23:02:08 Compared to the electron 23:02:39 elliott_, well if all the world is a conductor and a torus, then any direction would give much the same effect, no? 23:02:44 as far as I remember 23:03:33 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:06:59 Vorpal: Crazypatterns. 23:07:06 Vorpal: Crazypatterns unrelated to flags :P 23:08:18 -!- itidus21 has joined. 23:08:19 :t \f x -> f <*> x <*> x 23:08:19 forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f (a -> a -> b) -> f a -> f b 23:09:57 Naw, I don't like this rule either ... 23:10:21 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:15:34 http://sprunge.us/FPPW New rule = less than ideal 23:16:58 Man, getting non-lightspeed flags which are affected by electrons but don't move at lightspeed = so hard :'( 23:16:58 elliott_, new album 23:18:14 -!- itidus20 has joined. 23:18:43 OMG SOMEBODY HELP ME WAAAAH :'( 23:19:53 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:20:30 Sgeo_: Do you have an album updater? :-P 23:20:45 No 23:20:54 SOmeone mentioned it in one of the channels 23:21:25 Sgeo is in every channel on freenode (this position will not be changed by statements, evidence, or proof). 23:22:01 Is there a Homestuck channel on Freenode? o.O 23:22:43 Whooooosh 23:23:00 There, flags no never dissipate. 23:23:03 Clearly the best strategy. 23:23:19 Gregor: Definitely. 23:23:26 Gregor: What do they do at the end of a line? 23:23:27 of wire 23:23:39 elliott_: Sit there. 23:24:20 X-D 23:24:21 Nice. 23:24:51 fmap :: (a -> b) -> (a -> Writer String ()) -> (b -> Writer String ())... why is it rejecting the obvious implementation... 23:25:06 Oh, DURRRRRRRRR 23:25:09 I need (b -> a) >_< 23:25:20 I want better flag rules WAAAAAH :'( 23:28:48 Gregor: You think YOU have troubles, my type is wrong :-( 23:31:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:31:35 Oh, DUH 23:31:41 I need Cons rather than (->) 23:31:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:39:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:40:16 It says Glk window sizes can be fixed or proportional, but winmethod_Fixed is defined as 0x10 and winmethod_Proportional as 0x20 but it doesn't say about putting zero instead of one of these constants? 23:41:04 So you can't? 23:41:28 I assume you can't but I don't know why it is like that 23:41:50 Is it to prevent you from making a mistake and forgetting to indicate whether it is fixed or proportional? 23:45:26 It might just be a standard for enumerations to use successive multiples of sixteen starting at 0x10; perhaps so that the look nice-ish in the enum declarations? 23:46:10 But winmethod_Left is defined as zero, but it is a separate enumeration 23:49:28 No idea, then. 23:49:35 Is there a reference implementation? 23:53:19 ais523: Didn't you say you were working with someone who had done things about bidirectional parsers? 23:54:00 elliott_: I can't remember having said that 23:54:18 nor am I aware that any of the people I work with have done things about bidirectional parsers 23:54:20 Darn 23:54:26 nor am I even sure what a bidirectional parser is, come to think of it 23:54:29 I don't know, but I can just assume that you must specify Fixed or Proportional 23:56:02 ais523: a parser that also works as an unparser 23:56:06 ah, I see 23:56:12 oh, you might be thinking of gcc 23:56:17 which does something vaguely like that 23:56:18 ...no :P 23:56:30 If it has something like that, I'd bet millions that the unparser is a separate codebase. 23:57:42 elliott_: not for C 23:57:47 it's for a crazy internal language 23:58:02 which it parses a different crazy internal language into, then parses back out to asm on the same template 23:59:26 Heh. 23:59:39 For this type, the unparser outputs input that the parser would accept.