00:00:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:11:35 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:12:06 is there a tool I can use to auto-generate C++ header files? 00:13:13 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 00:19:17 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:21:25 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:24:14 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:24:24 CakeProphet: perl 00:24:33 ...no. 00:24:40 I'll just, uh, write the header file. 00:24:45 less effort. 00:24:51 but not as re-usable I guess. 00:25:37 -!- fizzie has joined. 00:51:58 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:54:42 -!- Jafet has joined. 01:11:03 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:21:24 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds). 01:21:56 -!- MSleep has joined. 01:23:14 -!- augur has joined. 01:23:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:23:21 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 01:23:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:23:33 -!- variable has joined. 01:24:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:25:07 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:13 -!- DH____ has joined. 01:25:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:25:15 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:39:48 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:39:48 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 01:39:48 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:55:31 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:05:33 -!- evincar has joined. 02:07:07 -!- evincar has quit (Client Quit). 02:14:26 Yo. 02:14:42 hi 02:15:25 so im applying my unique genius in strange directions as usual 02:19:15 as usual 02:19:45 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:19:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:21:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:37:40 -!- augur has joined. 02:39:59 back 02:40:17 monqy: if you're still about 02:40:23 hi 02:40:53 (well you are ok. hi) or if not.. its all the same.. multicast message is always the best 02:41:28 ok 02:41:28 so 02:41:41 is lambda calculus like a blueprint to build a computer? 02:42:23 what 02:42:40 yeah.. nevermind :D. disregard that last post 02:42:57 ok 02:43:02 if i have.. 02:43:12 6 pebbles 02:43:20 and i am at the beach 02:43:48 can i use lambda calculus to add 1 pebble to 2 pebbles? 02:44:01 what 02:44:04 uhmm 02:44:10 lol you poor guy 02:44:10 I have read a while ago, and look at it again today, with no new information however, about the game called Quintuple Arcana. 02:45:12 Apparently it took thirty years and the rules are still incomplete. 02:45:29 if i have 5 pebbles and 6 apples... and i am sitting at the beach, can I perform the calculation 2 pebbles x 3 pebbles = 6 apples by applying lambda calculus 02:45:52 do you know what lambda calculus is 02:46:34 your questions are nonsensical 02:47:26 there seems to be a signifigant difference between pure and impure lambda calc 02:47:33 what 02:47:56 apparently lambda calculus on it's own is good for nothing 02:48:03 no 02:48:43 & what 02:48:48 Play is on the intersections like Go and Xiangqi; there is a river in the middle like Xiangqi; you make scoring patterns like in Mahjong; and you can capture as in Nine Men's Morris. One of the positions on the board is labeled the "state of being" and has certain immunities, some of which are transferred from the card standing there to the rest of the board. 02:49:05 as a human... it is in my interests you see, to make sure all knowledge i have is in some way relevant to things 02:49:06 There are two yellow stations which modify the rules of the game. 02:49:22 i understand that lambda calculus can describe functions at the least 02:49:28 lambda calculus is very relevant to things 02:49:41 unless you have a bizarre definition of relevant 02:49:51 so that is a connection to functions so i am safe in that aspect 02:51:07 like.. if i say int a = sqrt(25); here float sqrt(float) or whatever types it might have is a function :D 02:52:16 what 03:06:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:07:37 sorry i got distracted by some stuff 03:08:08 > sqrt 25 :: Int 03:08:08 No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int) 03:08:09 arising from a use of... 03:08:21 > fromFractional $ sqrt 25 03:08:21 Not in scope: `fromFractional' 03:08:30 > toIntergral $ sqrt 25 03:08:30 Not in scope: `toIntergral' 03:08:47 so, sqrt has an input parameter of type float, and if it is 25, it is re-written into whatever equation it is found in as 5 03:10:56 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:14:58 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:15:34 TIL that Debian masks the magic sysrq key by default. 03:16:22 It does? 03:16:33 That explains why every time I try to unbreak my system via sysrq nothing happens 03:17:02 echo 1 > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq 03:17:28 Usually the system is crashed by then, so... 03:19:33 Stick it in /etc/rc.local 03:20:49 Note: Technically has security ramifications. Though if an attacker has physical access, he can just as easily go ahead and remove your hard drive, install a key logger, or do whatever else he damned well feels like. 03:26:17 -!- augur has joined. 03:44:16 -!- azaq231 has joined. 03:44:18 -!- azaq231 has quit (Changing host). 03:44:18 -!- azaq231 has joined. 03:44:41 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:45:42 -!- azaq231 has changed nick to azaq23. 04:10:12 I got Steve Smith's autograph in Thursday. But it is messy writing and I cannot read it. 04:12:55 -!- Jafet has joined. 04:15:51 I think abuse of notation is as useful in Haskell as it is in mathematics. I made it to work abuse of notation so that something like $(9) in a type context represents the natural number type for number nine. 04:16:37 (The stuff in $(...) is expected to be Q Type but it is a number instead. But it can still work.) 04:22:35 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:41 zzo38: instance Num (Q Type)? 04:26:08 http://codu.org/tmp/drell6-2011-09-13.ogg ACK I'M STILL DOING THESE 04:27:55 monqy: Yes. 04:28:03 That is what I did. 04:28:25 I did write on there, also that it is abuse and not really a proper number and that stuff, but that it is convenient and works anyways. 04:35:09 Hey guys! I'm going to make a MOO! 04:35:35 `apt-get moo 04:35:37 ​(__) \ (oo) \ /------\/ \ / | || \ * /\---/\ \ ~~ ~~ \ ...."Have you mooed today?"... 04:35:55 It's going to be better than Normish and the NMR combined. 04:35:59 Which is still pretty bad. 04:36:20 `aptitude moo 04:36:22 There are no Easter Eggs in this program. 04:36:43 But I have a plan, you see. The MOO's programming language will be Lua, implemented in Smalltalk. 04:36:53 `aptitude moo moo 04:36:55 Unknown command "moo moo" \ aptitude 0.4.11.11 \ Usage: aptitude [-S fname] [-u|-i] \. aptitude [options] ... \. Actions (if none is specified, aptitude will enter interactive mode): \ \ install. - Install/upgrade packages \.remove. - Remove packages \ purge - Remove packages and their 04:37:07 tswett, wait, what happened to the old MOO? 04:37:09 Which I've said before. But it'll be better this time. 04:37:32 Sgeo: the couple-of-weeks-old one? It still exists and, in theory, can be played. 04:41:49 Hmm.. 04:41:52 I've discovered a Smalltalk package that makes compiling new code much, much nicer than I thought it would be. 04:41:54 WebTV is apparently a weapon 04:41:59 tswett, hmm? 04:42:42 I thought I'd have to generate Smalltalk source code, or an AST, or raw bytecode. It turns out that there's this nice "intermediate representation" thingy that's easy to generate. 04:43:08 So, you guys will all be allowed to write Smalltalk code. But you'll have to write it in Lua. 04:43:40 Smalltalk isn't exactly known for security, I think 04:43:52 So unless only voted-on Smalltalk code is allowed... 04:44:25 (I don't mean they could affect the underlying OS. I mean it's trivial for a snippet of code to modify anything in the Smalltalk system) 04:47:33 Lua is known for security, though. The Lua functions that actually access Smalltalk can be locked away. 04:54:43 `aptitude moo -vvvvv 04:54:45 Unknown command "moo -vvvvv" \ aptitude 0.4.11.11 \ Usage: aptitude [-S fname] [-u|-i] \.aptitude [options] ... \ Actions (if none is specified, aptitude will enter interactive mode): \ \.install - Install/upgrade packages \ remove.- Remove packages \ purge. - Remove packages and their 04:54:53 Lame. 04:54:58 `run aptitude moo -vvvvv 04:55:01 All right, you win. \ \ /----\ \ -------/ \ \ / \ \ / | \ -----------------/ --------\ \ ---------------------------------------------- 05:01:29 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:19:21 `run aptitude moo -vvvvvv 05:19:23 What is it? It's an elephant being eaten by a snake, of course. 05:19:41 Not quite so clear, onelined like that. 05:19:51 VVVVVV with cows? 05:26:37 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:39:36 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:39:42 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:39:48 -!- aloril has joined. 05:57:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:57:58 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:59:18 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 05:59:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:21:29 -!- cheater has joined. 06:23:57 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:35:16 -!- myndzi has joined. 06:43:04 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 06:43:04 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 06:43:04 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 06:52:31 -!- nooga has joined. 06:58:51 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:10:12 -!- nooga has joined. 07:11:28 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:17:25 Sour Patch Kids are a soft candy with a coating of sour sugar created by Frank Galatolie. When sour confectionery was first introduced it was not considered a serious product category, more of a children's fad. Success, however, rocketed it into the mainstream. One of the driving forces behind the brand's growth was its success in cinemas, and even now it is a staple for moviegoers. Today Sour Patch Kids is a top selling 07:17:34 most NPOV intro paragraph award. 07:20:03 Possibly also a "most copied from PR literature" award. 07:21:16 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:22:44 ...but then we're no longer being sarcastic 07:22:52 no mixing! 07:23:00 s/most/least/, then. 07:23:30 okay that maintains sarcasm axiom standards. 07:24:57 but dude they are really good 07:25:04 like, I don't think they're being biased. 07:25:14 it's just universally accepted that sour patch kids are delicious 07:25:41 though sour punch straws could use some similar modifications to be made equally POV 07:25:50 they are arguably more delicious 07:28:44 -!- cheater has joined. 07:29:44 dude... I wonder 07:29:57 if source cereal would be good. I bet it would be delicious. I bet people would buy that shit. 07:30:19 source? 07:30:57 oh... 07:30:58 sour 07:30:59 sour cereal 07:31:04 it's my idea you can't take. 07:31:42 I'll give you help back. 07:32:21 ok 07:33:44 A breakfast cereal (or just cereal) is a food made more or less from processed grains often, but not always, eaten with the first meal of the day or sometimes as a snack later in the day. It is often eaten cold, usually mixed with milk (e.g. cow's milk, soy milk, rice milk, almond milk), water, or yogurt, and sometimes fruit but sometimes eaten dry. 07:33:54 I love things like this on Wikipedia 07:34:40 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:35:07 sometimes I use orange juice instead of milk/yogurt 07:35:13 other times I use milk/yogurt 07:35:31 "Chairs are a type of furniture often made from wood, and are frequently, but not always, used for sitting." 07:35:38 monqy: weird 07:35:46 I didn't know people put yogurt in cereal but I guess that makes sense. 07:35:58 orange juice cereal is good, for some cereals 07:36:57 Cerealicious is a fast-food restaurant chain based in the Philippines. There are currently 12 branches: 10 are located in Manila, 1 in Cebu, and 1 in Davao. Cerealicious offers Post, Nestle, and Kellogg's cereals with milk and a wide range of additional toppings. It incorporates local flavors to serve Filipino taste. 07:37:12 I love that Filipino taste. 07:39:02 CakeProphet: http://sourcereal.com/ 07:47:56 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:51:48 lol wat 07:53:53 good website 07:57:02 one of the best quality and education sites I've ever read. 08:03:58 I found a robot built to play ddr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlXV8VlDA7Y&feature=feedu 08:05:39 Haha, on his other new video: 'I'm pretty sure this is a 19. Today was the second time I've ever vomited from dance games.' 08:05:40 Nice 08:13:15 -!- cheater has joined. 08:14:11 -!- nooga has joined. 08:23:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:24:23 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:31:36 -!- DH____ has joined. 08:35:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:40:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:43:33 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:44:13 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:51:32 -!- cheater_ has joined. 08:51:43 -!- cheater_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:58:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:58:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 08:58:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:00:51 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:11:32 -!- itidus21 has joined. 09:12:49 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:13:33 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:30:43 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 09:31:17 -!- itidus21 has joined. 09:33:51 itidus21: lambda calculus can do any computation that a computer can do, but you have to encode the data as lambda expressions first, and define your functions... 09:34:23 that's no different from how an ordinary computer works with bits and machine code 09:35:07 But can lambda calculus... FEEL... does it have a... SOUL... 09:35:27 tricky. 09:36:16 A soul weighs 21 grams, or so I've heard. 09:36:36 IF YOU SAY SO 09:36:59 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 09:37:10 although i am a teeeny bit doubtful 09:38:10 There was this dude in the 1910s who tried to measure the weight of people immediately before and after death, and came to the conclusion that, on average, there was a weight loss of about 21 grams. 09:38:21 -!- shachaf has joined. 09:38:45 With a sample size of N=6, of which two had to be discarded, and the others weren't very consistent either. 09:38:48 But it's still SCIENCE. 09:39:20 Later he went on to take photographs of souls, too. 09:39:52 Snopes documents this thing at http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp -- and see, it says "Status: True" there. 09:40:19 cannot doubt snopes, that's for sure 09:40:46 (Admittedly the only thing in the "claim" part is "A physician once placed dying patients upon a scale in order to measure the weight of the human soul", but still.) 09:42:09 fizzie: you don't _have_ to ruin your jokes by explaining them, you know. 09:42:25 It's a sort of a compulsion. 09:44:16 Or do you mean it came pre-ruined and did not require additional ruining by explanation in order to be ruined? (That much is also true.) 09:45:30 no, i mean it works better if the listener has to do work to find out what's screwy 09:46:12 of course i did suspect it, since i know what kind of format snopes uses 09:52:07 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 09:53:07 -!- itidus21 has joined. 09:54:01 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 09:56:31 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:11:52 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 10:12:37 -!- itidus21 has joined. 10:25:07 -!- derdon has joined. 10:31:18 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 10:31:45 -!- itidus21 has joined. 10:33:12 -!- itidus21 has quit (Client Quit). 10:33:43 -!- Jafet1 has changed nick to Jafet. 10:33:45 -!- itidus21 has joined. 10:35:16 -!- itidus21 has quit (Client Quit). 10:35:31 -!- itidus21 has joined. 10:38:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:40:00 -!- itidus21 has changed nick to itidus20. 10:58:41 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:58:42 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:59:41 -!- derdon has joined. 11:02:17 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:10:31 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 11:11:41 -!- rodgort has joined. 11:20:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:38:31 OK, I have decided that single * for toggle italics, that works embedded inside words, is a ridiculously bad syntax idea 11:38:42 using space-* ... *-space isn't so bad, although less flexible 11:38:49 but embedded asterisks happen far too often 11:46:44 In Markdown, * inside `` doesn't result in emphasis 11:46:51 And asterisks outside code are rare 11:49:35 I was reading an article about LR(*) grammars 11:50:21 Right, that's rare 11:50:58 -!- yorick has joined. 11:51:37 well, I'd say although each individual context where you tend to have embedded asterisks is rare 11:51:41 there are a large number of htem 11:51:43 *them 11:52:01 Wikipedia was having enough trouble with a language which contained words with double single-quotes 12:07:54 you guys should cook up your own wiki encoding 12:08:24 oh. that is what you're doing isn't it :P 12:13:28 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:14:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:14:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 12:14:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:14:24 itidus20: I consider MediaWiki's to be tolerable 12:14:57 it pretty rarely false-positives on markup, and it allows you to express really complex things if you want to 12:15:06 I consider looking simple to be secondary 12:16:51 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:17:36 -!- kmc has joined. 12:38:05 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:46:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:51:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:55:10 -!- sllide has joined. 13:06:05 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 13:07:01 -!- rodgort has joined. 13:12:09 -!- augur has joined. 13:13:02 -!- itidus20 has changed nick to itidus21. 13:13:24 -!- itidus21 has changed nick to itidus20. 13:21:09 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 13:34:37 -!- monqy has joined. 13:42:03 elliott (from the logs): if you want to confuse Esolang admins, do what Tekknolagi has been doing, he's been making productive and very useful posts with metadata that makes me think they're spam until I read them 13:45:45 speaking of spam, I really like the bots that delete large chunks of text and replace them with praise in broken english 13:49:34 why? 13:49:52 (the broken english is to stop them being filtered out by keyword matching, I think) 13:50:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:50:26 Hello! 13:50:31 I don't really know why I like them so much 13:51:12 I was talking to one of my friends today about how it is a very small world 13:51:33 During that conversation, it emerged that it is even smaller than either of us realised 13:52:13 oh? 13:52:35 Extremely small 13:52:53 and how did this emerge 13:53:06 Turns out, she once got kicked in the face by elliott 13:53:26 this made me laugh 13:56:52 Brb, walking dog 13:56:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 14:03:36 -!- nooga_ has joined. 14:03:36 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:05:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:06:57 Ooh I've got mail! 14:08:29 I think email has the huge advantage that it is easier to open 14:11:53 Unless you have a letter opener. 14:12:02 Or dialup 14:13:18 Todays Darths and Droids is good 14:16:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:20:20 What was the evil computermabob in the Terminator films called? 14:20:23 Because http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14896330 14:21:03 why are ADTs not used more? 14:21:06 they're a really useful concept 14:21:20 Which ADT? 14:21:22 the only reason I don't design them into my esolangs is that those are typically untyped 14:21:28 algebraic data types 14:21:47 Not Average Daily Traffic? 14:21:48 Shame 14:23:42 Hey, ReactOS is picking up speed 14:29:23 I could never get ReactOS to install... 14:29:52 I couldn't get Haiku to 14:31:30 Haiku installed fine but didn't recognise my mouse.. 14:32:43 hahahahaiku 14:32:43 An OS designed for image processing with no mouse is rather pointless. 14:33:03 sounds like you have a laughing fit which ends with a sneeze 14:33:42 os designed for image processing? I don't know much about haiku other than I probably wouldn't like it 14:34:18 I didn't realise it was designed for image processing 14:35:47 I just thought I ought to have as many OSs as I could, just in case 14:37:21 just in case 14:37:36 I got confused after two 14:37:44 And now my laptop is having repairs 14:37:46 two? 14:37:50 confused? 14:37:59 Yeah, I'm easily confused 14:38:15 And they were two of the easiest to use 14:38:46 oh? 14:38:55 Windows and Ubuntu 14:39:00 oh. 14:39:49 at least for my uses, windows was anything but easy 14:40:02 Oh? 14:40:54 it was often a pain to get things working, the ui was annoying, other things I've forgotten by now 14:41:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:41:48 It's easiest to get help with, I find it a lot easier to install software for 14:42:23 amusing, as when I had to deal with it, installing things was hell 14:42:45 also I haven't used ubuntu enough to have a reasonable opinion of it from usage, but from what I know, I wouldn't like it 14:42:45 We must install different sorts of things 14:44:50 Different people, different opinions 14:44:54 Happens all the time 14:44:56 as a disclaimer, what is friendly to me personally is far from "user friendly", so my opinions are probably a good deal off 14:48:40 -!- cheater has changed nick to nauke. 14:49:25 -!- nauke has changed nick to rnauke. 15:01:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:02:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:02:10 I tend to collect installed OSes... 15:05:18 -!- augur has joined. 15:06:28 -!- rnauke has changed nick to cheater. 15:16:16 It's easiest to get help with, I find it a lot easier to install software for 15:16:27 sudo aptitude install half the things you want 15:17:21 Admittedly, Linux is a much bigger target than Windows, but not to the extent of making me want to wade through Windows' UI and system. 15:19:17 even incorrectly packaged things, I find easier to install on Linux than Windows 15:19:36 things I have to compile myself, I can understand why people don't like installing those, though 15:19:44 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:20:08 ais523, worse still are binary packages. 15:20:21 Phantom_Hoover: they're not a problem if they're packaged correctly 15:20:42 For some reason, people don't seem to realise that there is no such thing as a Linux binary that will just work on all Linux systems. 15:21:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:21:11 You can assume that someone running the same distro on the same arch that you compiled it will be able to run it easily. 15:27:10 There is no such thing as a Windows binary that will just work on all Windows systems. 15:27:16 This is a much more esoteric fact, though. 15:29:42 I think I'll work some more on XSLT S and K 15:30:05 Thinking about it differently, though 15:30:25 Consider the identity function in S and K, SKK 15:30:47 This can be written, if you are so inclined, as "(((S)(K))(K)) 15:31:22 so much parentheses 15:31:23 Which makes it clearer what it looks like as a tree 15:32:00 -!- cheater has joined. 15:32:18 http://theantifacebookleague.com/ 15:32:26 Well this won't be horrifically snotty or anything. 15:32:38 Oh, goodness, it is. 15:32:53 Intelligentsia 15:33:39 Now, XML encodes data trees 15:33:56 Which is good, because XLST works on XML 15:34:02 -!- lambdabot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:34:11 And combinatory logic can be expressed as a tree 15:34:54 The slightly less... bracket overcrowded, ((SK)K) 15:34:59 Can be expressed as follows: 15:35:16 15:35:26 Taneb, are you going to get to a point that almost all of us don't already know in less than ten minutes? 15:35:34 Not likely 15:35:44 Make it , at least. 15:35:53 Probably better 15:36:16 I thought XSLT wasn't TC, anyway. 15:36:23 Has been proven 15:36:40 has been proven which way?? 15:36:46 This way: http://www.unidex.com/turing/utm.htm 15:37:26 Oh, OK. 15:37:56 -!- lambdabot has joined. 15:39:00 A K can only be completely evaluated if it is at the begininning of its pair thing and its pair thing is at the beginning of /its/ pair thing 15:39:11 I'm not good at the actual words 15:39:28 An S needs to be even more firsty 15:39:31 By 1 15:40:28 It's pattern matching, basically. 15:40:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 .). 15:40:58 Reduce any instances of ```sxyz or ``kxy from the top of the tree. 15:41:17 is xslt a rewritey system or am i thinking of something else 15:41:23 Yep. 15:41:49 So it should be ideal for SK implementation, although I thought the same about Eodermdrome. 15:48:05 -!- elliott has joined. 15:55:55 -!- iamcal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:58:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:58:31 -!- iamcal has joined. 15:58:54 -!- iamcal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:04:21 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:15:26 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:16:27 -!- kmc has joined. 16:21:52 -!- iamcal has joined. 16:23:21 21:44:53: `cat bin/quotes 16:23:21 21:44:55: ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ egrep -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 16:23:21 21:45:11: Why did he think shuffling /that/ was a good idea :P 16:23:21 21:47:42: oops 16:23:21 ahahaha 16:23:40 ais523: i'mready for qgermainewalli 16:24:09 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gecho 16:24:11 r u srs 16:24:20 http://tekknolagi.lighthouseapp.com/projects/81045-gecho/tickets oh good it has a bug tracker 16:24:24 Calculations are Imprecise 16:24:24 Reported by tekknolagi (at gmail) | September 13th, 2011 @ 02:44 PM 16:24:24 The computations use float, which is very imprecise. Must move to bignum. 16:24:48 oh nice, e wants people to build it as root for no apparent reason 16:24:58 elliott: OK, undeleted 16:25:01 "That's stack theory." good lord this is bad 16:25:11 grab a copy, I'm going to delete it again soon 16:25:17 ais523: amazing; thank you kindly, saved 16:25:17 unless you aren't interested after all 16:25:41 hmm, I should read my email spam 16:25:45 I wonder if it's as amazing? 16:25:50 the worrying thing is, I think the spam might have copied from a web page that thought it was legitimate 16:25:58 email spam is generally less amazing than that, but not alwayds 16:26:01 *always 16:26:07 BILLING SUMMARY 16:26:07 --------------- 16:26:08 PRIOR BALANCE: $-10.67 16:26:08 --------------- 16:26:08 NEW BALANCE: $-10.67 16:26:09 thanks slicehost! 16:26:15 they're going to send me these emails forever, aren't they 16:26:25 do you owe them $10.67? 16:26:30 or do they owe you that amount? 16:26:33 they owe me that 16:26:35 or, well 16:26:38 I doubt I can turn it into cash 16:26:42 but it'd pay for any slicehost crap i bought 16:26:48 ah, it's store credit, effectively 16:27:02 they keep emailing me to let me know that nothing happened, which is expected as I cancelled my VPS :P 16:27:56 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages&curid=1322&diff=24511&oldid=24398 16:28:00 ais523: I'm really upset you reverted this 16:28:06 Phantom_Hoover: 16:28:19 Yes? 16:28:23 it's the twin of [[Talk:Gregor Richards]]! 16:28:27 click the link 16:28:44 elliott: it was overwriting content 16:28:48 on a talk page, it wouldn't have been so bad 16:28:56 but it actually overwrote the example 16:29:00 :'( 16:29:01 elliott: That's not just logic. That's rellay sensible. 16:29:08 it was better than the example 16:29:11 Gregor: That's not just the best answer. It's the beestst answer! 16:29:21 what if people want to know how to write a hello world in Tri? 16:29:34 ais523: they should stop wanting to know that, and start wanting to admire some beautiful spam instead 16:29:58 fromDon't get scammed, free report. norwaypilgrim@vignette.com 16:29:58 subjectCNN USA breaking news 16:29:58 CNN USA breaking news 16:29:58 http://seventeenforty.net/ 16:30:03 it doesn't even load :( 16:30:04 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:30:19 but then chrome suggested http://seventeenforty.com/ "1740 is a private, members-only,18 and over BDSM dungeon and social club located in Wichita, Kansas." 16:30:27 cnn usa breaking news 16:31:10 The BBC News Technology page sounds like we're heading into a dystopia 16:31:12 -!- Jafet has joined. 16:31:19 SKYNET SEEKS IDLE COMPUTER POWER 16:31:25 hahahaha 16:31:31 1 MILLION EUROS TO FUND WINDOWS CLONE 16:31:32 why would you name anything Skynet? 16:31:38 like, ever 16:31:43 elliott: because it's a cloud computing project related to astronomy 16:31:48 so they must have thought it was a good pun 16:32:33 LEGAL ACTION ON COLLEGE BOOK PLAN 16:32:37 Blagging firms 'get away with it' 16:32:38 Blagging of personal data goes far beyond the media but debt collectors and other firms are getting away with it, warns the information commissioner. 16:32:48 I can't interpret this as anything other than "blagging" as in blogging 16:32:52 Same 16:33:14 elliott: I thought that term was xkcd-specific 16:33:29 According to BBC, it means something else 16:33:33 Equally despicable 16:33:37 ais523: is there anything xkcd-specific that hasn't blended into "nerd culture" a bit? 16:33:48 'Beggars belief' 16:33:49 blaggars belief 16:34:02 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:34:03 elliott: well, normally it's as an xkcd reference 16:34:04 Blaggers could be jailed - Clegg 14 JULY 2011, POLITICS 16:34:04 What is blagging? 12 JULY 2011, UK 16:34:04 teeheehee 16:34:25 the original meaning of "blagging" was persuading people to give you things for free 16:34:38 basically, just walking into a shop and asking if you could have some of their stuff for free, and actually getting it 16:34:51 some people got really good at it, mostly celebrities 16:34:52 I actually did that 16:34:53 ais523: good term, good activity 16:34:56 With a book 16:35:01 Never read it 16:35:08 "The system's developers say it runs all Windows programs, but is much faster than its Microsoft equivalent." 16:35:08 ReactOS runs all Windows programs now? 16:35:09 -!- calamari has joined. 16:35:20 "The venture's project coordinator, Moscow-based Aleksey Bragin, said that the system was almost ready to go from the experimental to the available-to-all stage." 16:35:21 seriously? 16:35:22 The Portrait of Dorian Grary 16:35:29 did ReactOS stop being a buggy piece of crap in the last four years? :P 16:35:42 The president of Russia is interested in it 16:35:45 So probably not 16:35:55 elliott: I thought ReactOS was typically more or less level with Wine in compatibility 16:36:04 as Wine is ReactOS's userland libraries, effectively 16:36:13 Taneb: In Soviet Russia, the government says that is assassinated by YOU! 16:36:20 s/that is/that and is/ 16:36:41 Anyone? No? 16:37:49 fromBBC USA: Exclusively for Stay at home Mother cahootdavies@sofitel.com 16:37:54 BBC USA is exclusively for stay at home mother onw? 16:37:55 now? 16:38:18 elliott, yes. 16:38:27 Ah. 16:38:49 "How can you program if you're blind? - Stack Overflow" 16:38:51 seriously, SO? 16:40:08 screen readers are quite capable of handling punctuation 16:40:16 although I imagine a punctuation-light language would be faster to read 16:40:27 there are blind people who play NetHack using a screen reader and a virtual cursor 16:40:32 apparently braille displays are sometimes used for deeply-nested punctuation 16:40:37 ais523: oh, there are? I think I had an argument about that in here once 16:40:47 ais523: blind from birth, or previously sighted? 16:40:48 elliott: well, according to the devteam 16:40:53 I don't know 16:40:56 alright 16:40:57 RL zen conduct 16:41:18 I've heard that braille displays are a pain to use for long periods of time 16:41:19 it's obviously possible for the latter... I dunno how good blind from birth people are at grid-based reasoning 16:41:24 not having tried, I wouldn't know 16:42:08 elliott: they're going to need spatial awareness whether they can see or not 16:42:13 "20-20 vision is required for fighter pilots. I have no qualms about requiring color vision for programmers. Everyone does not need to be a programmer." --Chuck Moore, 2001, who now has terrible eyesight, and still (to my knowledge) codes 16:42:24 ais523: yes, what i'm saying is that if you were previously sighted, you'll have spatial intuition 16:42:36 so it's obviously possible to play nethack 16:42:48 I don't know if blind-from-birth people have spatial intuition like that 16:42:55 spatial intuition doesn't have that much to do with sightedness 16:43:03 I'd say blind people need more of it, to figure out what's around them without sight 16:43:06 [–]sourabhdeveloper -1 points 43 minutes ago 16:43:07 How can anyone read your article if he/she is blind? Think about it 16:43:07 permalinkreportreply 16:43:13 ais523: hmm, indeed 16:44:09 ais523: hey, you're doing the secret project, mind if I ask you a question about low-level Linux memory management? :-P 16:44:19 I don't mind, although I might not know the answer 16:44:54 I went and reimplemented mmap-at-variable-location in terms of mmap-at-fixed-location, and also turned off ASLR so that the heap, stack etc have consistent locations 16:44:59 ais523: Is there a way to preserve some of the address space across an exec() of yourself? I know I can use POSIX shm and the like and map it back to avoid copies, but since there's no guarantee you can map it to the same address, all pointers could be invalidated 16:45:03 which sucks 16:45:20 so I'm wondering if there's a way to just "keep this memory" 16:45:29 and pass the addresses on to the new process (with argv) 16:45:36 if it's mapped to a file, there'd be no issue 16:45:49 as you could just use the same file 16:45:50 yes there would be 16:45:58 because there's no guarantee you can map it to the same address 16:46:02 umm, shared-mapped to a file 16:46:04 so all pointers inside would be invalidated 16:46:07 oh, you want the same address too? 16:46:17 ais523: yes, which obviously is not possible if you make a /new/ mapping 16:46:17 Keep respawning until it works 16:46:23 so I'm wondering if there's a way to just preserve the old one 16:46:24 if you turn off ASLR, that's not an issue 16:46:31 that's not an option 16:46:35 with it on, I don't think you can preserve the old one 16:46:45 (also, you can turn it off for one process using personality(2)) 16:46:50 oh no i missed elliott noticing gecho 16:46:55 ais523: hmm 16:47:03 ais523: I suppose it might work, but I'm reluctant to do that 16:47:09 agreed 16:47:15 I'm not sure if there's a non-hacky way, unfortunately 16:47:19 ais523: the usecase here is a seamless upgrade command that self-execs to preserve socket fds 16:47:23 (mcmap) 16:47:37 but the problem is, there could be from like five megs to a gig of map data 16:47:43 and that has to be preserved across the update 16:47:46 What's wrong with my solution 16:48:00 elliott: and contains pointers, presumably 16:48:01 Jafet: it's terrible and might not even work at all :P 16:48:14 Sure, it might not work in 32-bit address spaces, but those are like deprecated. 16:48:23 ais523: yes; it uses a glib hash table, and has SDL surfaces inside -- and sdl surfaces contain pointers you can't fiddle with 16:48:47 ais523: it /could/ be rewritten under the assumption that non-relative pointers won't work 16:48:49 but bleh 16:49:14 elliott: instead of execing, what about remapping the executable? 16:49:20 ais523: the currently planned solution is that, there's some regionfile code that was being worked on before, that swapped out regions of the map to disk (in Minecraft's native formats), etc., to avoid being a massive RAM hog 16:49:29 so, we can just turn that on always, and it'll work 16:49:34 and it could be pointed at /tmp 16:49:37 but that uses up disk 16:49:46 or, might just not work at all, if /tmp isn't big enough and you don't want to use up disk 16:49:50 ais523: hmm, howso? 16:50:32 well, an executable gets mapped three times (as readonly, readwrite, readexecute) 16:50:56 and if you replaced just those mappings, together with the stuff you didn't want to keep, things might work 16:51:09 I'm not convinced they would, though; or at least, it might be really difficult to work out 16:52:25 ais523: heh 16:52:40 ais523: the problem is that I want library state to be reset 16:53:18 Tetosterone poisining typing 16:53:26 Like strong typing but stonger 16:53:52 Taneb: Ada :P 16:54:12 or VHDL, because it's designed to be as like Ada as possible 16:54:41 ais523: I guess the regionfile code is the best path, then 16:54:49 especially as I'd like to write the equivalent for Windows, too 16:54:56 and also be relatively portable for POSIX systems 16:55:00 -!- augur has joined. 16:55:12 I'm trying to remember if windows even has an exec 16:55:18 I know Windows 3.1 did 16:55:25 but I'm not sure if it's been updated for later versions 16:55:26 ais523: no, but it has a createprocess thing that lets you keep fds, theoretically 16:55:31 hmm, well it might have exec 16:55:33 but i doubt it keeps fds 16:55:49 FDs are a bit of a weird concept as Windows goes 16:55:49 ais523: 10:41:13: elliott: As for Windows, no, I don't think it has the proper sort of exec; it's all by CreateProcess there. But at least for files you can specify SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES that let the handle be inherited by child processes; presumably that could be possible for sockets *somehow*. 16:55:56 17:07:00: The file thing should work on Windows too, it just needs the proper CreateFile calls. (In particular the SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES needs bInheritHandle of true, and dwShareMode that FILE_SHARE_DELETE for the delete-before-close... and I'm not entirely sure how you pass an inherited handle. Oh, and then of course you'd have to make the sockets inheritable somehow, that might be more complicated.) 16:55:57 it likes using all sorts of bizarre lockable handles instead 16:55:59 internally 16:56:32 (The "file thing" is another part of the hack.) 16:56:45 (We create a temporary file, unlink it, write data to it, seek to position 0, then pass the fd on to the new process.) 16:56:52 (It reads all the serialised data from it.) 16:57:04 where locking something doesn't just prevent other things accessing it, but causes it to have an actual memory location 16:57:08 and prevents it being swapped out 16:57:17 Windows' API was invented before virtual memory was 16:57:19 heh 16:57:48 (Windows 3.1 was capable of using virtual memory if it was present, but that was in an "enhanced mode", and it had another mode where it wouldn't) 16:58:16 memory leaks were pretty easy in 3.1, as memory wasn't cleaned up on program exit 16:58:23 it is nowadays, I think/hope 16:58:32 XD 16:58:52 3.1 is the only version of Windows that I actually have a reasonable understanding of 16:58:55 I used to program for it 16:58:55 An incredibly weakly typed esolang 16:59:01 back before I knew UNIX existed 16:59:09 you actually have to free() all memory before exit on old windows? wow 16:59:21 I thought that was just programming superstition 16:59:36 on DOS, too, but it's more obvious there 17:00:24 wow, SDL 1.3 is introducing multiple windows 17:00:35 you were also supposed to close files while not using them 17:00:42 droidevr - Hi! - check out a new screenshot of development!: http://16bitsoft.com/files/CT/images/Desktop_09-13-2011.png 17:00:43 oh my god 17:00:44 as files couldn't be opened by more than one process at a time 17:00:46 holy poop on a stick 17:00:47 everyone click on that and look at the code header 17:00:49 just 17:00:50 look at it 17:01:10 wow what 17:01:17 I did, it doesn't seem too out of place 17:01:18 my holy poop on a stick was for sdl 1.3 17:01:37 ais523: it's ridiculous! 17:01:49 http://16bitsoft.com/T-Crisis3AI--HTML5/advertising/T-C3AI-HTML5-Title.png oh my god 17:01:58 have you not seen ASCII art code headers before? 17:02:04 Pimp my code header. 17:02:05 ais523: not ones /that/ gratuitous 17:02:10 elliott has never opened nfo files 17:02:15 ais523: and I tend to avoid them, because I tend to try and not read awful code 17:02:21 lol that's tame compared to most 17:02:22 Jafet: nfo files don't go through cc! 17:02:54 :'( 17:03:10 This company was created in 2010 by Autistic Savant game programmer JeZ+Lee. 17:03:10 17:03:10 JeZ+Lee is most widely recognized for his game "T-Crisis 100%" for Palm® OS PDAs/SmartPhones. 17:03:10 Originally offered to E.A.Games® for $4,000, E.A. did not publish it. 17:03:10 E.A. then proceeded to sue JeZ+Lee and force him not to distribute the game for a profit. 17:03:10 JeZ+Lee thought a while and then published the game as freeware on cnet®'s Download.com site. 17:03:11 Neither do comments 17:03:12 The game became a #1 smash hit, with a total of 500,000+ downloads before E.A. sued cnet®. 17:03:14 cnet® was unfortunately forced to stop distributing "T-Crisis 100%". 17:03:16 17:03:18 JeZ+Lee was devastated. 17:03:21 But he continued forward, making more games... 17:03:22 what an inspiring story 17:03:37 Jafet: they should do 17:03:40 "JeZ+Lee" is one person? it sounds like the name that two people would have 17:03:43 everyone should have to make their comments valid C 17:03:55 or invalid INTERCAL 17:03:56 I liked the multiple page scrolling ansi bbs ads back in the day 17:03:58 /* FIXME("total hack"); */ 17:04:01 in a header file somewhere: 17:04:07 /* void FIXME(char *s) {} */ 17:04:24 No, comments are for profanity 17:04:42 calamari: i like those extra files included with video games. 17:04:47 In this esolang, the epoch of the date type is the Assassination of Julius Ceasar 17:05:02 I guess you could do #define the \ #define fucking 17:05:13 for instance, the original advert of quake was included with commander keen 17:05:50 maybe you can enable comment execution 17:05:59 /* void FIXME(char *s) { puts("Fixed it yet?"); } */ 17:06:09 then the generated code is even included at runtime :P 17:06:15 DO REINSTATE COMMENTS 17:06:23 PLEASE 17:06:27 stop suggesting standard INTERCAL features 17:06:33 elliott: jez+lee includes a souped up car engine with their code 17:06:43 ais523: haha 17:06:55 (well, CLC- and C-) 17:06:56 ais523: maybe I need to start using intercal 17:07:51 it's not normally a very /useful/ command, but it's there 17:07:53 i did a search, this is what jez+lee gives you: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3525/3203910088_031a3b9a7a_z.jpg 17:08:24 02:43:02: if i have.. 17:08:24 02:43:12: 6 pebbles 17:08:25 02:43:20: and i am at the beach 17:08:25 02:43:48: can i use lambda calculus to add 1 pebble to 2 pebbles? 17:08:25 no. this is a famously unsolvable problem. ask oerjan 17:08:38 it's up there with DO ABSTAIN FROM REINSTATING as methods to break your program very quickly 17:09:03 02:45:29: if i have 5 pebbles and 6 apples... and i am sitting at the beach, can I perform the calculation 2 pebbles x 3 pebbles = 6 apples by applying lambda calculus 17:09:04 it is illegal to use lambda calculus at the beach, at least from the 90s onwards in most european countries and the USA 17:09:33 you crazy log reading bastards i infer that you have literally no life outside of irc 17:09:33 This program language I'm making is weakly typed but doesn't convert types at all 17:09:48 itidus20: it only takes like half an hour a day 17:10:11 :P 17:10:16 '9' + 8 equals 'A' or 65, depending on context 17:10:24 Normal people do other things during that time, like go to the beach to perform lambda calculus. 17:10:28 elliott: ok suppose i asked... did i describe applied calculus there? 17:10:30 Jafet: Yes. 17:10:40 itidus20: calculus does indeed mean pebble 17:10:52 * itidus20 pulls my hair out 17:11:06 :D 17:11:06 elliott: I think the etymology is in the individual stones on abaci, isn't it? 17:11:40 04:26:08: http://codu.org/tmp/drell6-2011-09-13.ogg ACK I'M STILL DOING THESE 17:11:40 this is nice 17:11:42 ais523: dunno, might be 17:12:12 jkjlhn 17:12:21 what's a drell? 17:12:23 o 17:12:38 http://16bitsoft.com/T-Crisis3AI--HTML5/T-Crisis3AI.html this is great 17:12:41 07:39:02: CakeProphet: http://sourcereal.com/ 17:12:41 help 17:12:55 sourcereal.com is also great 17:12:57 itidus20: Lambda calculus is like making a box out of pebbles, and when you put n apples in, it gives you 3n apples 17:13:19 monqy: lame, that's not a compilation from SDL/C 17:13:21 to js 17:13:27 That would be  λn.3n 17:13:33 elliott: the about button is good 17:13:39 Taneb: unlikely 17:13:51 λn. mult 3 n, given appropriate definitions of mult and 3, yes 17:13:52 Taneb: a black box with stylized input chutes and dispensors? 17:13:54 so this weird rant of itidus20 that's been going on for days, is it about lc only being tc but not quite bf complete? 17:13:55 Taneb: now you just need some rot and some string, and it's TC 17:14:01 or what 17:14:03 oklopol: no, it's about him not having any idea what LC is 17:14:07 i see 17:14:20 oklopol: and mumbling something about how it must only be useful in its "impure" form, which means with primitive functions not defined in LC, because he doesn't understand it 17:14:23 it seems he was of the opinion you need addition or it's just pointless 17:14:31 right 17:14:33 if you know what a higher-order function is, lambda calculus is pretty easy to understand 17:14:40 although it's a little harder to see why it's useful 17:14:45 this is because he's reading random snippets of wikipedia articles, or something, in lieu of actually trying to read something about the lambda calculus 17:14:52 hope this helps 17:14:59 kind of how all you want to do is rape parrots, bf is only useful in its impure form where you have the rape a parrot command 17:15:06 *how if 17:15:11 (why does this one have its title shown twice, and why does it say "edit conflict" on blank summaries and ask for another captcha?) 17:15:12 is this one of us 17:15:30 But the beuaty of lambda calculus is when you've got a pepplebox that when you put a pepplebox in it... 17:15:38 it's probably the editfilter extension 17:15:38 GIVES YOU A DIFFERENT PEBBLEBOX 17:15:46 ais523: I mean, that editor 17:15:50 which can be set to do all sorts of nasty things to what it thinks might be spambots 17:15:50 Or the same pepplebox 17:16:28 last I checked, the "instantly ban and desysop" setting was disabled in the configuration, but it's fun to know it exists 17:16:47 11:46:44: In Markdown, * inside `` doesn't result in emphasis 17:16:47 11:46:51: And asterisks outside code are rare 17:16:49 Deewiant: The problem is more underscores 17:16:53 umm... i have some more LC info to ruminate anyway so it should be ok 17:16:56 foo_bar_baz DTWrongT in markdown by default 17:17:01 github's markdown derivative fixes that, though 17:17:04 ais523: haha 17:17:16 i'm tempted to make a language about pebble boxes but it;d probably be so bad 17:17:22 (as in, you need server access to undisable it) 17:17:30 well LC is about functions right? 17:17:42 so how did Markdown end up as *italics* _bold_ anyway? 17:17:48 elliott: Underscores outside code are rare 17:17:51 13:42:03: elliott (from the logs): if you want to confuse Esolang admins, do what Tekknolagi has been doing, he's been making productive and very useful posts with metadata that makes me think they're spam until I read them 17:17:52 itidus20: no it's about beaches and apples and pebbles and boxes 17:17:54 more usual is *bold* /italic/ _underlined_ 17:17:54 itidus20: yes 17:17:55 ais523: gecho is productive and very useful? 17:18:00 so how did Markdown end up as *italics* _bold_ anyway? 17:18:01 _italic_ 17:18:09 _emphasis_ 17:18:12 oh, the page I was looking at was italicising on ** 17:18:13 bold is **bold** 17:18:15 How it's rendered is up to the CSS 17:18:17 **strong** 17:18:19 or __bold__, even, I dunno 17:18:22 as in, *italic* 17:18:26 and i think I understand functions in general. y = f(m,x,c) .. int main(void) ... int add(int a, int b).. etc 17:18:26 so it must have been some weird CSS involved 17:18:29 And yes, *_ are interchangable 17:18:34 Deewiant: Nobody has ever bought em vs. strong and nobody ever will :P 17:18:35 Deewiant: ouch 17:18:41 itidus20: _you're doing it wrong_ 17:18:45 Even the html5 guys admit it's bullshit, I think b and i are now the recommended tags for that 17:18:46 Well, not interchangeable, they have to match 17:18:49 itidus20: sure sure 17:18:50 elliott: I use them if I remember and I'm writing a website rather than commenting on one 17:18:52 *_x*_ won't work 17:19:03 those are functiony things 17:19:13 monqy: let's let oklopol teach 17:19:18 elliott: Aren't they just renaming em and strong 17:19:19 ok 17:19:26 i teach for a living so. 17:19:33 having two different syntaxes for one thing that aren't part of two different sets is awful and abhorrent 17:19:36 as far as i know, a function is a set of zero or more parameters which is rewritten into the invoking/calling expression in some way 17:19:36 Deewiant: Maybe :P 17:19:43 as in, I can understand, say, ''italic'' versus italic 17:19:50 but not *italic* versus _italic_ 17:19:56 itidus20: for various meanings of what you just said, yes 17:20:05 In lambda calculus, function have to have EXACTLY ONE, unless you do currying 17:20:05 elliott: underscores are pretty common in usernames, that isn't programming 17:20:19 ais523: I never said foo_bar_baz dtrt 17:20:21 I said it dtwrongt 17:20:26 well, yes 17:20:32 hmm i see 17:20:42 Currying is a sneaky way of making a 1-input function act like a multi-input function 17:20:45 that's irrelevant 17:20:47 Taneb: try not to take that too literally 17:20:51 the currying i mean 17:21:00 ICA didn't have any way to take elements from tuples for ages, because they existed 17:21:05 *although they existed 17:21:16 14:33:42: os designed for image processing? I don't know much about haiku other than I probably wouldn't like it 17:21:21 you can add multivaria 17:21:23 in the end, I relented and added the "\(x,y) -> x" syntax that everyone assumed was obvious 17:21:26 ble funcs to lc 17:21:28 monqy: I've never heard that before; it's just BeOS' open-source successor 17:21:34 so currying basically means nesting functions without any kind of processing between the nestings 17:21:37 without changing it 17:21:37 oklopol: indeed, there's just not much of a point 17:21:46 ais523: nicer to write 17:21:56 when currying always works, and if you have tuples they work too 17:22:01 itidus20: Yes 17:22:04 the whole λm.(λx.(λc.( ... ))) 17:22:10 elliott: If I remembered who said image processing I'd be eyeing him/her suspiciously 17:22:13 That's the ticket, itidus20 17:22:24 monqy: DHridiculousamountsofunderscores 17:22:31 well certainly no point in adding functions that can't be curried, i just mean the syntax 17:23:11 `greplogs image processing 17:23:12 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: greplogs: not found 17:23:13 if you couldn't curry then i can imagine you would run into a great deal of trouble 17:23:22 A GREAT DEAL 17:23:28 a great deal 17:23:32 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:23:34 Currying is practically the whole point of λcalculus 17:23:44 I think the real-time-clock in my computer is slow 17:23:45 15:17:21: Admittedly, Linux is a much bigger target than Windows, but not to the extent of making me want to wade through Windows' UI and system. 17:23:48 Phantom_Hoover: A much bigger target than eh? 17:23:57 ais523: ooh, greplogs sounds useful 17:24:03 ais523: I'll have to ask Gregor to install an appropriate symlink to the logs 17:24:03 i don't know what it would mean not to have currying in lc 17:24:14 oklopol: a great deal of trouble 17:24:20 elliott: I was pretending it existed in the hope someone would implement it 17:24:26 (also, I'm used to !grepsrc in #nethack) 17:24:30 Gregor: Ping 17:24:37 I do want to grep logs as well 17:24:51 D'aww piffle. 17:25:03 Gregor: Can you just install a symlink into HackEgo? :P 17:25:19 Just add a symlink from the glogbot esoteric logs directory into /usr/share/logs. 17:25:22 HackEgo is in a chroot. 17:25:22 Thx 17:25:25 i mean i don't know what that means, unless you have that \x y -> something shorthand 17:25:29 Can't chroots have symlinks to outside them? 17:25:31 Pretty sure they can. 17:25:38 `url bin/quote 17:25:40 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote 17:25:59 meant to say i literally don't know what that means, now i just repeated what i said earlier 17:26:28 `ls /var/irclogs 17:26:30 λ calculus without currying would be like SKI combinatory logic without S 17:26:31 ls: cannot access /var/irclogs: No such file or directory 17:26:33 Hm 17:26:35 perhaps currying is just a nice application of LC 17:26:38 Oh, derr 17:26:39 Gregor: Grossest dirname possible :P 17:27:03 Is read-only mirror possible through a device driver or something like that? 17:27:07 what do you mean by currying? 17:27:14 elliott: worse than /bin/irclogs? 17:27:20 or /lost+found/irclogs? 17:27:21 ais523: heh 17:27:24 `ls /var/irclogs 17:27:26 ​_ai \ _corewars \ _esoteric \ _esoteric-minecraft \ _glogbot \ _matrixofsolidity \ _plof \ _scapegoat \ index.php \ log \ log.css \ log.js \ raw \ stalker.php 17:27:28 I think I may have to go now 17:27:31 Gregor: Thanks 17:27:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: TTFN). 17:27:34 I'm working on the script now 17:27:51 `ls /var/irclogs/_esoteric 17:27:53 2003-01-18-raw.txt \ 2003-01-18.txt \ 2003-01-19-raw.txt \ 2003-01-19.txt \ 2003-01-20-raw.txt \ 2003-01-20.txt \ 2003-01-21-raw.txt \ 2003-01-21.txt \ 2003-01-22-raw.txt \ 2003-01-22.txt \ 2003-01-23-raw.txt \ 2003-01-23.txt \ 2003-01-24-raw.txt \ 2003-01-24.txt \ 2003-01-25-raw.txt \ 2003-01-25.txt \ 2003-01-26-raw.txt 17:27:59 lets forget it for now... i can do some study on it and return again with more ridiculous analgoies 17:28:21 `run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/log 17:28:22 No output. 17:28:33 `run echo 'egrep -i -- "$1" /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1' >>bin/log 17:28:35 No output. 17:28:36 `run chmod +x bin/log 17:28:38 No output. 17:28:40 `url bin/log 17:28:42 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/log 17:28:49 `log hello 17:28:53 Gregor: Another thing about the IRC logs: It doesn't log QUIT messages. I think I understand the reason why it doesn't do that in individual channel logs, but it still ought to be cvorrected. 17:28:56 That'll probably not terminate :P 17:29:09 ​/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2009-07-07.txt:04:06:48: Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh 17:29:16 ais523: Tada, except ugly filename 17:29:18 I'll fix that 17:29:21 `run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/log 17:29:23 No output. 17:29:29 `run echo 'cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric' >>bin/log 17:29:30 i really don't know what it means in lc context since in the usual syntax, functions just have one arg, currying is just a name for the definition that \x y -> z means \x -> \y -> z. but what else could it mean in lc 17:29:30 No output. 17:29:39 `run echo 'egrep -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1' >>bin/log 17:29:41 No output. 17:29:42 `run chmod +x log 17:29:44 chmod: cannot access `log': No such file or directory 17:29:49 `run chmod +x bin/log 17:29:50 No output. 17:29:56 `log fuck 17:30:05 2010-11-15.txt:22:57:22: Brainfuck would be a great asteroid name 17:30:09 oklopol: if you have tuples, currying is a function of type ((a, b) -> c) -> (a -> b -> c) 17:30:21 `run cat /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 17:30:30 shuf: memory exhausted 17:30:30 that means even less in lc context 17:30:32 Thought so 17:30:35 @t curry 17:30:35 Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v 17:30:40 ais523: :t 17:30:42 @type curry 17:30:43 forall a b c. ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c 17:30:43 or @ty 17:30:46 but :t is better 17:30:47 Gregor: Are you capable of correcting the problem I ask you about, please? 17:31:23 yeah it certainly means that in haskell, but people also say functions are curried in haskell 17:31:28 ais523: Do you know a good data structure for regexp-grepping like a hundred megs of text? :P 17:31:38 `run cat `echo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1` | shuf -n 1 17:31:40 Suffix tree 17:31:47 shuf: memory exhausted 17:31:50 ais523: um, what? 17:31:54 oh, I see 17:32:00 there's an easier way to do that 17:32:08 `run shuf -en 1 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt 17:32:10 Well, that depends on whether you're making a data structure for the text or the regexp 17:32:10 ​/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2006-09-11.txt 17:32:18 `run shuf -n 1 `shuf -en 1 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt` 17:32:20 22:16:42: counterpart number... 17:32:22 elliott: oh right, spaces versus newlines 17:32:23 `run shuf -n 1 `shuf -en 1 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt` 17:32:25 19:14:57: ais523, anyway what is worse in this case (which is horrible php code), is that while pdo is supposed to be an abstraction layer, it is kind of useless when it returns mysql blobs as strings and postgresql bytea as streams 17:32:30 ais523: it's not a very accurate shuffler though 17:32:31 but ok 17:32:33 I'll write it in 17:32:35 `url bin/log 17:32:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/log 17:32:44 it's not massively inaccurate 17:32:53 probably about as good as Wikipedia's random page thing 17:33:05 `log test 17:33:09 2011-02-07.txt:19:17:34: !bfjoust test (>[-].)*20 17:33:45 `fetch http://sprunge.us/fdRJ 17:33:46 2011-09-13 17:33:46 URL:http://sprunge.us/fdRJ [185] -> "fdRJ" [1] 17:33:51 `run mv fdRJ bin/log; chmod +x bin/log 17:33:53 elliott: oh, miscellaneous thing that annoys me about darcs: it interprets SIGPIPE as an error 17:33:53 No output. 17:33:55 `log 17:33:57 2008-03-29.txt:11:52:14: heh 17:34:01 `log 17:34:02 2011-07-14.txt:05:52:36: coppro: This is Haskell, we expect multipage blog posts :) 17:34:08 `log This is Haskell, we 17:34:11 2011-07-14.txt:05:52:36: coppro: This is Haskell, we expect multipage blog posts :) 17:34:40 `run seq 99 17:34:41 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 \ 10 \ 11 \ 12 \ 13 \ 14 \ 15 \ 16 \ 17 \ 18 \ 19 \ 20 \ 21 \ 22 \ 23 \ 24 \ 25 \ 26 \ 27 \ 28 \ 29 \ 30 \ 31 \ 32 \ 33 \ 34 \ 35 \ 36 \ 37 \ 38 \ 39 \ 40 \ 41 \ 42 \ 43 \ 44 \ 45 \ 46 \ 47 \ 48 \ 49 \ 50 \ 51 \ 52 \ 53 \ 54 \ 55 \ 56 \ 57 \ 58 \ 59 \ 60 \ 61 \ 62 \ 63 \ 64 \ 65 \ 66 \ 67 17:34:46 `run seq 99 | paste 17:34:47 `log denotational semantics 17:34:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27534 17:34:51 2010-12-29.txt:23:25:33: someone did some denotational semantics thing 17:35:05 Gregor: Are you capable of correcting the problem I ask you about, please? // I am aware of the problem. I am not aware of why it happens, and so not easily able to fix it. 17:35:14 `log biscuit 17:35:17 2007-05-28.txt:00:52:00: no arms, no biscuit 17:35:26 `log `log 17:35:29 2011-09-13.txt:17:28:49: `log hello 17:35:29 `fetch http://sprunge.us/QHHG 17:35:30 2011-09-13 17:35:30 URL:http://sprunge.us/QHHG [231] -> "QHHG" [1] 17:35:35 monqy: lmao 17:35:37 `log `log `log 17:35:40 2011-09-13.txt:17:35:26: `log `log 17:35:42 `run mv QHHG bin/pastelog; chmod +x bin/pastelog 17:35:43 No output. 17:35:45 `log the 17:35:50 `run mv bin/pastelog bin/pastelogs 17:35:51 No output. 17:35:52 2010-02-19.txt:18:58:26: If it weren't then it wouldn't be harder than the short, which wouldn't make much sense. :-P 17:35:56 `pastelogs death 17:35:58 I wonder if... 17:35:58 ​/hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: syntax error near unexpected token `fi' \ /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: ` fi | paste' 17:36:01 noooo 17:36:03 ok wait 17:36:03 PHAIL 17:36:03 everyone stop 17:36:05 doing things 17:36:06 so i can fix this 17:36:22 `fetch http://sprunge.us/AiQB 17:36:23 2011-09-13 17:36:23 URL:http://sprunge.us/AiQB [233] -> "AiQB" [1] 17:36:28 `run mv AiQB bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs 17:36:30 No output. 17:36:32 `pastelogs death 17:36:33 ​/hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: syntax error near unexpected token `fi' \ /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: ` fi) | paste' 17:36:36 dfsd[]lsdf 17:37:08 `fetch http://sprunge.us/gRjb 17:37:09 2011-09-13 17:37:09 URL:http://sprunge.us/gRjb [236] -> "gRjb" [1] 17:37:14 `run mv gRjb bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs 17:37:16 No output. 17:37:16 `pastelogs death 17:37:18 ​/hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: syntax error near unexpected token `fi' \ /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: ` fi) | paste' 17:37:21 what 17:37:22 i fixed that 17:37:23 ??? 17:37:31 `run mv gRjb bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs 17:37:33 mv: cannot stat `gRjb': No such file or directory 17:37:35 `pastelogs death 17:37:36 ​/hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: syntax error near unexpected token `fi' \ /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: ` fi; } | paste' 17:37:40 ;_; 17:37:45 oh wait 17:37:49 ais523: what terminates a for loop in bash? 17:37:50 hint: not fi 17:37:59 is it rof 17:38:03 it's done 17:38:06 IS IT ELIHW? 17:38:08 `fetch http://sprunge.us/cOYQ 17:38:09 2011-09-13 17:38:09 URL:http://sprunge.us/cOYQ [233] -> "cOYQ" [1] 17:38:14 `run mv cOYQ bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs 17:38:16 No output. 17:38:17 `pastelogs death 17:38:21 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8704 17:38:27 `pastelogs 17:38:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:38:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13247 17:38:51 Oh, hmm, it should take a count 17:38:57 `log `log `log `log `log `log 17:38:59 `url bin/paste 17:39:00 2011-09-13.txt:17:38:57: `log `log `log `log `log `log 17:39:01 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/paste 17:39:15 `url bin/quote 17:39:16 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote 17:39:45 `pastelogs looking ghostly 17:39:49 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15915 17:39:51 monqy: how many random logs by default? 17:39:53 as in 17:39:54 random log lines 17:39:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13247 this is twenty 17:40:01 i think forty or so 17:40:05 ok 17:40:20 i like how at the end of your `pastelogs death 17:40:25 2011-09-13.txt:17:35:56: `pastelogs death 17:40:25 2011-09-13.txt:17:36:32: `pastelogs death 17:40:25 2011-09-13.txt:17:37:16: `pastelogs death 17:40:25 2011-09-13.txt:17:37:35: `pastelogs death 17:40:27 2011-09-13.txt:17:38:17: `pastelogs death 17:40:40 it is a nice touch 17:40:42 yes 17:40:45 `fetch http://sprunge.us/PGWL 17:40:46 2011-09-13 17:40:46 URL:http://sprunge.us/PGWL [362] -> "PGWL" [1] 17:40:54 `run mv PGWL bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs 17:40:56 No output. 17:40:57 `pastelogs 17:41:06 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15857 17:41:06 Sure is slow :P 17:41:12 wtf? 17:41:13 that's not forty 17:41:20 `run mv PGWL bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs 17:41:22 mv: cannot stat `PGWL': No such file or directory 17:41:26 `pastelogs 17:41:42 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12648 17:41:43 I like how absurd http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15857 is 17:41:52 ais523: there you go 17:42:03 although its paste-forty mode is quite thoroughly slow 17:42:05 `pastelogs 9 17:42:10 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30821 17:42:12 thanks 17:42:16 `pastelogs (9) 17:42:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:42:20 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3504 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 14: 281 File size limit exceededcat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" 17:42:28 Gregor: Wow :P 17:42:43 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3504 This is a big file :P 17:42:50 -!- augur has joined. 17:43:00 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:43:00 `url bin/paste 17:43:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/paste 17:43:10 `logs [aeiou]{20} 17:43:12 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found 17:43:16 `rm $HACKENV/paste/paste.3504 17:43:17 `log [aeiou]{20} 17:43:18 ais523: log/pastelogs 17:43:18 rm: cannot remove `$HACKENV/paste/paste.3504': No such file or directory 17:43:22 2009-10-19.txt:22:43:23: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees 17:43:26 `run rm $HACKENV/paste/paste.3504 17:43:28 No output. 17:43:30 `log [aeiou]{30} 17:43:32 $HACKENV is pwd, y'know :P 17:43:34 2009-04-05.txt:23:14:25: ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 17:43:41 `log [aeiou]{40} 17:43:45 2011-02-13.txt:18:25:19: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 17:43:47 X-D 17:43:58 that's 40? seriously? 17:44:03 2006-11-04.txt:20:01:23: which isn't that terrible... list comprehensions can pretty much do anything lambda could do... 17:44:04 `log [f]{40} 17:44:07 CakeProphet: You're stupid in the past 17:44:09 2009-02-13.txt:20:38:05: ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 17:44:16 `log [f]{50} 17:44:20 2009-07-06.txt:09:17:31: fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 17:44:21 `log f{7}u{12} 17:44:23 I hope that produces 0 results 17:44:25 2009-06-04.txt:21:29:04: FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 17:44:27 EgoBot was so mad. 17:44:29 nooga_ is horrible 17:44:33 `pastelogs f{7}u{12} 17:44:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16592 17:44:38 List of horrible people being generated as we speak 17:44:38 `log [^f]f{7}u{12}[^u] 17:44:42 2011-05-12.txt:20:36:33: ​http://reddit.com/r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu/ 17:44:44 haha 17:44:48 brilliant 17:44:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16592 is amazing 17:44:55 `pastelogs [^f]f{7}u{12}[^u] 17:44:59 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9749 17:45:09 -!- derrik has joined. 17:45:15 wow, all the correctly spelt ones have been in reddit URLs 17:45:37 Hmm, pastelogs should probably cut it off after a certain limit 17:45:44 A limit much smaller than HackEgo's :P 17:45:55 Say, three hundred and fifty lines? 17:47:23 hmm, what's a decent way to say "head, but append this line if you cut anything off"? 17:47:26 I guess the only way is to read one more 17:47:28 and see if it's there 17:47:34 I wonder if you did all the matches for [^f]f+u+[^u] over the entire internet 17:47:43 what the distribution of f-count and u-count would be 17:47:48 heh 17:47:52 actually, probably you should insist on \bf+u+\b 17:48:53 `log x{12} 17:48:57 2011-02-10.txt:19:37:22: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 17:49:10 x 17:49:16 `run ls bin/*log* 17:49:18 bin/etymology \ bin/log \ bin/pastelogs 17:49:25 Etymo-log-y 17:49:45 I wonder if that still works (or ever worked) 17:49:46 `fetch http://sprunge.us/DOKJ 17:49:47 2011-09-13 17:49:46 URL:http://sprunge.us/DOKJ [600] -> "DOKJ" [1] 17:49:48 `etymology etymology 17:49:50 ​/hackenv/bin/etymology: line 10: lynx: command not found 17:49:53 `run mv DOKJ bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs 17:49:53 Phail 17:49:54 No output. 17:49:56 `pastelogs 999 17:49:58 No. 17:50:00 `pastelogs . 17:50:03 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2673 17:50:10 `log FURscript 17:50:10 Excellent. 17:50:14 2011-06-21.txt:16:36:32: died of furscript 17:50:14 `log Esme 17:50:18 2011-06-21.txt:16:35:35: "The VeeBeeWiki wiki software needs Esme and Perl to run. The software also needs EsmeCSS: and EsoShell: namespaces." 17:50:19 what was the other one? 17:50:27 ais523: snack? 17:50:30 `url 17:50:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 17:50:36 ugh, I just realised something, grepping numbers includes the time 17:50:37 but it's ok 17:50:40 you can fix it in the regexp itself 17:50:40 I don't remember having heard of that 17:50:45 and who knows, maybe someone wants to grep for a certain time? 17:50:48 but it might be that 17:50:54 `log shameful 17:50:58 2010-12-15.txt:15:21:27: Used the menus to cut/paste that, how shameful. 17:51:02 `log 17:51:04 2010-02-05.txt:19:41:28: arbitrarily big, sure, but finite things are usually closed under operations 17:51:07 `log '^(\d)\1:\1\1:\1\1:' 17:51:10 So `log just gives a random line :P 17:51:10 No output. 17:51:12 we've basically recreated optbot here 17:51:15 Gregor: Yep 17:51:17 ais523: heh 17:51:18 ais523: but with more context 17:51:21 `log 19:41 17:51:22 oh, there's one more thing to add 17:51:25 2011-04-16.txt:19:41:00: elliott: That's not much of a ransom demand since it's my repo :P 17:51:29 I guess that might be useful 17:51:34 well if it reported all lines 17:51:36 it might be 17:51:40 (with date too) 17:52:11 oh, if it's Esolang that's doing edit conflicts on blank summaries, it's almost certainly a Graueism 17:52:12 Vorpal: patselogs 17:52:14 pastelogs 17:52:20 he has some entertaining hand-rolled spam solutions 17:52:26 elliott: lets get every line said this time of day then 17:52:29 `run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/logurl 17:52:31 No output. 17:52:34 `run echo 'url "/var/irclogs/_esoteric/$(basename "$1" .txt).txt"' >>bin/logurl 17:52:35 No output. 17:52:37 `log patse 17:52:37 `log 19:53:.. 17:52:37 `run chmod +x bin/logurl 17:52:39 does that work 17:52:41 2007-12-08.txt:01:05:35: the patset function willtoo be unique and wspecisl 17:52:42 No output. 17:52:42 2010-12-04.txt:19:53:48: Gregor: I think "HELP COMPUTER" was an unfortunate choice of topic. 17:52:45 plz stop 17:52:45 hm 17:52:48 im developing 17:52:49 what sort of regexp? 17:52:52 `logurl 2010-12-04.txt 17:52:54 Vorpal: egrep 17:52:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//var/irclogs/_esoteric/2010-12-04.txt 17:52:59 Hmm, wait 17:53:06 It should just link to the codu.org link :P 17:53:06 elliott: from all files or just recent logs? 17:53:11 `pastelog 19:53:.. 17:53:12 Vorpal: All 17:53:12 `log help 17:53:13 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastelog: not found 17:53:16 2009-12-05.txt:21:18:37: uorygl: I don't think there's a Unicode character that would help. 17:53:16 err 17:53:20 elliott: pastelog? 17:53:29 `pastelogs 19:53:.. 17:53:31 Vorpal: Pastelogs. 17:53:33 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32542 17:53:34 okay 17:53:51 elliott: not a very active minute this one 17:53:58 well, last one 17:54:02 `fetch http://sprunge.us/QWaF 17:54:03 2011-09-13 17:54:03 URL:http://sprunge.us/QWaF [91] -> "QWaF" [1] 17:54:10 2005-07-17.txt:23:19:53: <-- also eh 17:54:11 `run mv QGaF bin/logurl; chmod +x bin/logurl 17:54:12 mv: cannot stat `QGaF': No such file or directory 17:54:17 Vorpal: What of it 17:54:19 `pastelogs 19:53:[0-9][0-9]: 17:54:20 `run mv QWaF bin/logurl; chmod +x bin/logurl 17:54:22 No output. 17:54:23 Vorpal: FFS 17:54:23 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22489 17:54:29 You'll cause merge bullshit 17:54:31 `logurl 2009-12-05.txt:21:18:37: 17:54:33 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2009-12-05.txt 17:54:36 -!- derrik has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:54:37 elliott: trying to perfect my perfect regexp 17:54:39 Argh 17:54:47 Vorpal: Yes, but don't while I'm busy adding new things, or it'll be a pain 17:54:52 elliott: how so? 17:54:57 PRINT "Hello world" is a function application ((λf.(λs.(f s))) PRINT) "Hello world") 17:54:58 elliott: your thing didn't paste did it? 17:55:11 It still has to hg merge 17:55:18 hehehe :-s 17:55:18 `fetch http://sprunge.us/Sffh 17:55:19 elliott: no conflict, not an issue 17:55:19 2011-09-13 17:55:19 URL:http://sprunge.us/Sffh [101] -> "Sffh" [1] 17:55:23 Vorpal: Slows it down 17:55:27 `run mv Sffh bin/logurl; chmod +x bin/logurl 17:55:28 elliott: not much. 17:55:29 No output. 17:55:31 And makes my tests use an old version 17:55:35 `logurl 2009-12-05.txt:21:18:37: 17:55:37 itidus20: what 17:55:37 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2009-12-05 17:55:41 elliott: old version? I didn't change the file ffs 17:55:46 monqy: it doesn't make sense? 17:55:50 Vorpal: You don't understand how HackEgo works, then 17:55:58 elliott: tell me. 17:56:01 Vorpal: No 17:56:02 I'm busy 17:56:06 Gregor: Is there a predictable way to go from date to anchor in codu log page? 17:56:09 elliott: well then I see no reason to not use it 17:56:15 What about these "020024" thins 17:56:16 things 17:56:17 Second-precision? 17:56:19 Looks like it 17:56:29 Gregor: BTW you violate standards horribly if there's two things said at the same second 17:56:30 monqy: nevermind :D 17:56:39 itidus20: ok 17:57:02 elliott: Only if there are two things said by the same person in the same second. 17:57:02 a counter starting at 0 would be better 17:57:16 elliott: The is timestampname. 17:57:17 Gregor: Not quite 17:57:18 abc 17:57:22 01:49:00: -!- lifthrasiir has joined #esoteric.
17:57:22 oops i messed that up 17:57:26 ;_; 17:57:26 ;_; 17:57:27 Gregor: Two /joins in the same second 17:57:30 oh no more mess 17:57:40 I'll never be cool 17:57:48 elliott: Oh, didn't realize that joins didn't have the name in the >_> 17:57:57 Oh well, CBA to do anchor shit right now 17:58:15 Does anyone know if egrep does backrefs? 17:58:24 elliott: pretty sure it doesn't. 17:58:33 `url bin/pastelogs 17:58:34 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastelogs 17:58:36 JUST HAVE TO USE PERL THEN 17:58:43 pcregrep would 17:58:51 pcregrep would also be incredibly slow. 17:58:52 elliott: anyway "pretty sure" is not definitive 17:59:17 `quote [aeiou]{90} 17:59:19 No output. 17:59:20 `log [aeiou]{90} 17:59:23 2010-07-04.txt:16:05:45: you're my new idol, oerjan is out <-- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH 17:59:29 elliott: it might do backref 17:59:33 `logurl 2010-07-04.txt:16:05:45: 17:59:35 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2010-07-04 17:59:38 elliott: based on what regex(3) indicates 17:59:40 -!- derrik has joined. 17:59:44 REG_ESUBREG 17:59:44 Invalid back reference to a subexpression. 17:59:48 -!- augur has joined. 17:59:52 `log [aieouy]{140} 17:59:55 pretty sure egrep is same as posix extended regexp 17:59:57 2009-09-12.txt:17:51:06: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet 18:00:00 -!- derrik has left. 18:00:14 elliott: You heard yourself! Now eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! 18:00:17 ok 18:00:21 `logurl 2009-09-12.txt:17:51:06: 18:00:23 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2009-09-12 18:00:39 17:50:35: ehird: The WinForms GUI designer uses absolute positioning for most placement of controls 18:00:39 17:50:42: rheeeeeeeeet! 18:00:40 17:50:53: Azstal: A program which should run quite quickly infinite-loops; it makes a diagonal line of z pointing upward in negative space and starts moving on it with 101-x 18:00:40 17:51:04: rheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 18:00:43 17:51:06: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet 18:00:46 17:51:08: aw 18:00:48 17:51:10: no multiline support 18:01:18 `log (.)\1{100} 18:01:19 `log (fuck\s*){3} 18:01:22 2011-01-12.txt:16:14:13: fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck 18:01:28 `log (fuck\S*){3} 18:01:32 2011-04-08.txt:19:04:11: elliott: FUCKFUCKFUCKNO 18:01:34 I forget whether \s or \S is whitespace ... :P 18:01:36 Or neither 18:01:42 `log (fuck\S*){9} 18:01:45 2010-06-01.txt:03:11:20: fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck 18:01:47 \\s is whitespace, \S is not whitespace 18:01:49 `log (fuck\w*){3} 18:01:49 No output. 18:01:51 Just overheard: John Snow pronounces 'trolling' to rhyme with 'lolling'. 18:01:53 `pastelogs (fuck\S*){9} 18:01:53 2008-02-13.txt:22:56:21: Fuckfuckfuckfuck. 18:01:56 `log (fuck\s*){3} 18:01:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32136 18:01:59 2010-06-27.txt:22:17:32: OH FUCKFUCKFUCK 18:02:01 2010-06-01.txt:03:11:20: fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck 18:02:01 2011-09-13.txt:18:01:45: 2010-06-01.txt:03:11:20: fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck 18:02:04 Good collection. 18:02:07 I like how the logs are updated in realtime :P 18:02:08 Phantom_Hoover: so do I 18:02:15 Phantom_Hoover: I do that? 18:02:16 although long o is definitely a valid pronunciation 18:02:22 Oh wait. 18:02:22 `log (fuck\s+){3} 18:02:24 ais523, with an o as in 'cot'. 18:02:24 I use short o. 18:02:26 No output. 18:02:33 I use short o too 18:02:34 `log (fuck *){3} 18:02:35 Phantom_Hoover: I say trolling lik ethat 18:02:38 2010-08-30.txt:16:15:24: I can fix that! Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck 18:02:43 `log (fuck *){25} 18:02:44 `pastelosg 2010-08-30.txt:16:15:24: 18:02:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastelosg: not found 18:02:47 No output. 18:02:47 `pastelogs 2010-08-30.txt:16:15:24: 18:02:47 the same one as in 'cot', but that's the same as the o in 'lolling' in my accent 18:02:51 `log (fuck *){15} 18:02:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23901 18:02:55 2011-09-13.txt:18:02:01: 2011-09-13.txt:18:01:45: 2010-06-01.txt:03:11:20: fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck 18:03:01 `url /lib/limits 18:03:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//lib/limits 18:03:08 ;_; 18:03:09 Yeah, probably should grep out HackEgo :P 18:03:09 Gregor: What's lib/limits 18:03:15 Gregor: Nooooo 18:03:17 elliott: It sets some limits. 18:03:17 The recursiveness is the BEST 18:03:33 `log I'm a blah de blah always been the blah which haven't you always said which blah is 18:03:37 2011-09-13.txt:18:03:33: `log I'm a blah de blah always been the blah which haven't you always said which blah is 18:03:45 It's the best "not found" message possible. 18:04:16 `log 18:04:18 2006-06-05.txt:02:10:06: He hates you, eh? 18:04:26 good log 18:04:34 `log 18:04:36 2003-03-25.txt:19:31:11: -!- Aardappel has joined #esoteric. 18:04:44 `log 18:04:46 2008-03-08.txt:17:49:49: http://reddit.com 18:04:49 `log I think I'll just use `log as the world's worst `echo from now on. 18:04:53 2011-09-13.txt:18:04:49: `log I think I'll just use `log as the world's worst `echo from now on. 18:04:58 `logurl 2008-03-08.txt:17:49:49: 18:04:59 elliott: why would you link to Reddit's homepage? 18:05:00 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2008-03-08 18:05:05 ais523: let's find out 18:05:07 elliott, so wait, you say 'troll' that way too? 18:05:18 `log pong 18:05:20 17:45:41: not seen reddits code 18:05:20 17:46:09: looks pretty trivial if you know dhtml or whatever they do that stuff with 18:05:21 Me. 18:05:22 2007-08-13.txt:21:21:37: 3d pong 18:05:23 Phantom_Hoover: apparently 18:05:31 `log `log 18:05:35 2011-09-13.txt:18:04:16: `log 18:05:46 `log 00:00:00: 18:05:49 2008-12-11.txt:00:00:00: I WANT A REPRAP 18:05:56 I WANT A REPRAP, he shouted at midnight. 18:06:13 `log slightly as his ears, 18:06:16 2010-12-13.txt:21:08:15: David Slowed, slightly as his ears, entered the room. 18:06:42 `log slight as his ears, 18:06:45 2011-09-13.txt:18:06:42: `log slight as his ears, 18:06:45 `log slightly as his ears, 18:06:48 2009-06-17.txt:01:09:09: David slowed his pace slightly as his ears, washed away in the sea as they were, bobbed along. He was unaware of this event. 18:06:58 i love david slowed 18:07:25 `log Bjorn 18:07:29 2010-07-25.txt:22:08:11: Bjorn was deathly afraid of beetles. DEATHLY afraid. 18:07:34 me too 18:07:38 (not really) 18:07:47 oh, I forgot all about the Bjorn thing 18:07:49 `log Bjorn 18:07:53 2010-07-30.txt:19:36:21: Frightened, Bjorn said! Aah! Aah! This is what he said 18:07:56 me too 18:07:59 arguably deservedly, but it was fun 18:08:07 `log Bjorn 18:08:10 2010-07-25.txt:22:08:11: Bjorn was deathly afraid of beetles. DEATHLY afraid. 18:08:14 :'( 18:08:16 uncreative HackEgo 18:08:27 soon enough you'll get `log Bjorn in your `log Bjorn 18:08:34 what then???? 18:08:38 does this go over glogbot's logs? or clog's? or both? 18:08:46 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:08:50 ais523: glogbot's 18:08:55 `log Bjorn 18:08:55 but it's a symlink, so they're updated instantly 18:08:58 2011-05-05.txt:00:58:39: (bjorn is not norwegian. or maybe i should check that.) 18:09:04 ais523: which is why the "not found" message shows your own line 18:09:07 it gets logged before grep gets to it 18:09:15 `log Bjorn 18:09:19 2010-08-03.txt:00:53:43: Bjorn would never use a computer he couldn't eat. 18:10:36 `log Bjorn 18:10:40 2010-07-23.txt:23:56:32: Often Bjorn would stop and gaze up at the immense trees; or down at the bugs on the floor. Sometimes he squished the bugs while looking at the trees, or the trees while looking at the bugs. He felt considerably more sorrow for the trees. Eventually, a bird flew overhead and the strain of trying 18:11:14 I do not understand. I thought this might help, but it did not. 18:11:30 yes 18:11:32 `log Bjorn 18:11:36 2010-07-24.txt:03:53:35: "Well," said Bjorn, "I'd like to buy the sun back." 18:12:19 why are you the only bjorn. that is you, right? 18:12:24 `log Bjorn 18:12:27 2011-09-13.txt:18:12:24: `log Bjorn 18:12:28 because im, auhtor, of bjorn, 18:12:31 oh no 18:12:32 :DDD 18:12:35 `log Bjorn 18:12:38 2010-07-26.txt:02:36:09: to bjorn's reply, the young man devised 18:12:44 `log Bjorn 18:12:47 2010-07-24.txt:03:52:04: As Bjorn woke the next morning, he was, much to his chagrin, reminded of his exploits-to-be by his least favourite region of the brain, which was whatever part stored memories; Bjorn wasn't really sure how the brain operated, apart from that he wished it wouldn't do so in such an efficient and 18:12:50 alise was better at bjorning than anyone else 18:13:06 Ah, Bjorn. 18:13:18 `pastelogs Bjorn 18:13:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32040 18:13:39 "—" 18:13:46 Gregor: send correct headers with paste files plz 18:13:47 2007-07-02.txt:09:30:40: cout << "C++ is a programming language created by Bjorn Stroustroup which extends C. See C." 18:13:48 (assume utf :P) 18:14:03 2010-07-22.txt:23:14:05: He walked towards the Boothy Booth, the premiere showcase for all fans of boothes, and in a fit of naïvety attempted to descend into the miniature copy of the Boothy Booth contained inside it. Alas, he tripped over it and flattened its containing tent just as a gigantic Bjorn flattened Boothy Booth. 18:14:03 this would be a good dream to have 18:14:53 I like how 18:14:55 half of those pasted logs 18:14:57 are us today 18:15:06 bjorn 18:15:20 Stroustroup's first name isn't Bjorn 18:15:27 ais523: that's part of why it's funny 18:15:39 maybe I'm just really tired and everything is funny 18:16:05 in the past few minutes I tried remembering what my dream last night was, but instead remembered I didn't sleep 18:16:18 why is there no way to specify encoding as utf-8-or-maybe-latin-1? 18:16:20 `addquote in the past few minutes I tried remembering what my dream last night was, but instead remembered I didn't sleep 18:16:22 658) in the past few minutes I tried remembering what my dream last night was, but instead remembered I didn't sleep 18:16:26 given that's the encoding that most of the world is in nowadays 18:16:31 `log `quote 18:16:34 2011-08-13.txt:01:41:11: `quotes open sores 18:16:56 `log outercal 18:16:59 2011-09-13.txt:18:16:56: `log outercal 18:17:15 outercal 18:17:17 I like how you can't be sure there's no results 18:17:20 because it can pick that one randomly anyway 18:17:29 "By the same logic, the color white was chosen because it represents a hex number with the largest value in a 24-bit red green blue (RGB) color space: 0xFFFFFF, so programmers worldwide wear white in celebration.[citation needed]" 18:19:02 `log esolangs\.org/ 18:19:05 2011-04-18.txt:04:52:56: oerjan: i invite you to take a look at http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ehird&action=edit and imagine how much I yearned for the ability to use div and span during its creation 18:19:20 `log esolangs\.org/ 18:19:24 2009-03-03.txt:18:37:54: * ais523 looks at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Esme for old time's sake 18:19:44 * elliott listens to Talk Esme Baby again... an art 18:21:34 What's that? 18:21:43 hwo could you not know 18:21:59 Is it another of elliott's dramatic readings. 18:22:11 Phantom_Hoover: It was the final one. 18:22:17 Everything about its production was pure accidental perfection. 18:22:28 I must see. 18:22:31 I'll have to upload it, yeah. 18:22:33 Or hear, as the case may be. 18:22:34 You can't really go through life without hearing this. 18:22:51 Uploading. 18:23:29 it's a dramatic reading of Talk:Esme? 18:24:02 ais523: Well, that was the _idea_. 18:24:20 -!- boily has joined. 18:24:27 I decided to throw caution to the wind and do it to one of GarageBand's awful precreated backing track things, where you basically select one instrument and play it over the aforementioned terrible backing track. 18:24:35 Specifically, the funk one. 18:24:45 But the funk... was too much. 18:25:01 So I ended up not getting to the actual text until there was about thirty seconds to go, so it became a trainwreck. 18:25:05 Then I realised that it thought I was recording a guitar. 18:25:11 And applied bad effects appropriately. 18:25:15 So you can't hear a damn thing. 18:25:25 It's about as much of a disaster as Esme is. 18:25:26 to be fair, this is Esme we're talking about 18:26:15 Oh GarageBand. 18:26:18 Why do people use it? 18:26:23 Worse yet, why does it exist? 18:26:29 I remember being reminded of songsmith 18:26:31 And why hasn't its creator been raped to death? 18:26:32 Gregor: Dude, it produced ART that day. 18:26:54 songsmith commercial is an art. I imagine songsmith has made other art as well. 18:27:11 or is it not considered a commercial 18:27:21 Really GarageBand is not that bad in typical use... it's just a really ridiculously stripped-down Logic. 18:27:29 But that Magic GarageBand thing is amazing :P 18:28:00 elliott, this is nearly as good as Sgeo's karaoke. 18:28:53 Phantom_Hoover: I'm just glad Kurt Gödel agreed to collaborate. 18:29:13 I remember Sgeo's karaoke. 18:29:35 `log sgeo 18:29:39 2011-06-21.txt:04:06:40: I think 1/100 is higher than surviving antimatter in a degenerate way 18:29:50 `log itidus20 18:29:54 2011-08-10.txt:21:33:40: they're FAST 18:30:12 `log zzo 18:30:14 hehehe 18:30:16 2011-07-24.txt:07:22:30: I hope someone can understand my register optimization algorithm problem that I have had. And if there is other channel that they know this kinds of things better. 18:30:31 `log verily|betwixt 18:30:36 2009-02-21.txt:00:51:32: verily 18:30:41 verily 18:30:43 `log betwixt 18:30:47 2010-06-24.txt:23:01:53: `define betwixt 18:31:06 heh 18:31:07 `log betwixt 18:31:10 2010-06-24.txt:23:01:53: `define betwixt 18:31:14 `log channel 18:31:16 betwixt 18:31:16 ais523... 18:31:17 `log betwixt 18:31:18 2010-01-10.txt:18:04:04: This channel is now: The official poop channel 2010 18:31:21 2011-09-13.txt:18:31:10: 2010-06-24.txt:23:01:53: `define betwixt 18:31:28 `pastelogs betwixt 18:31:32 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2946 18:33:30 `log log 18:33:35 2010-08-15.txt:05:22:03: coppro: BlogNomic inspired you? 18:33:43 `log nomic 18:33:43 -!- derrik has joined. 18:33:46 2007-11-26.txt:02:45:17: life is a nomic! 18:33:48 ais523: this is so much fun what have you done 18:33:51 elliott: does it pick first match or random one? 18:33:55 Vorpal: random 18:33:56 `log nomic 18:34:00 2011-03-06.txt:23:04:18: copumpkin: "Basically this asshat pulled that number out of his butt. I used to work in at a library and books easily last way more than 26 borrowings (e.g., bestellers get borrowed over 20 times in just their first year). A library couldn't economically survive if books didn't last more than 18:34:15 night 18:34:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:34:55 `log hexham 18:34:58 2010-12-18.txt:20:50:50: elliott, I DETEST YOU AND I AM ALREADY ON A TRAIN TO HEXHAM TO BEAT YOU TO DEATH WITH A LAMP POST. 18:35:07 Hello 18:35:10 -!- derrik has left. 18:35:16 `log olsner 18:35:19 Taneb has 'Hexham' on ping. 18:35:20 2009-02-23.txt:19:15:07: hi olsner 18:35:26 `log book 18:35:30 2008-12-22.txt:15:50:34: I like how it takes 8 books to get to recursion 18:35:31 `log itidus 18:35:31 `log hexham 18:35:34 2011-08-10.txt:16:05:19: but it doesn't have to be that way 18:35:35 2011-09-12.txt:19:48:25: i could even fly to hexham but i guess that'd defeat the purpose 18:35:45 itidus20, inspirational words. 18:35:50 `log hexham 18:35:54 2011-07-16.txt:22:00:56: well i kind of live in hexham too 18:35:54 thanks 18:36:09 `log inspirational 18:36:13 2009-03-10.txt:14:18:38: If you want to see an inspirational piece of Befunge, our local irc-bot, fungot, is written in it: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 18:36:18 `log fungot 18:36:22 2011-02-25.txt:09:30:57: (:(()~(^)~(:)~(:)~(^)~()~^S^(^)~^^^)(^())~(^(~))~^^()~^^S)# ...out of stack! 18:36:27 Are oklofok and oklopol the same person? 18:36:31 Taneb, no. 18:36:40 oklofok is oklopol's evil twin. 18:37:03 `log twin 18:37:07 2010-03-04.txt:05:30:20: the only case where the twin paradox can "vanish" is in a case where it cant even happen! 18:37:10 `logurl 2009-03-10.txt:14:18:38: 18:37:12 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2009-03-10 18:37:13 `logurl 2011-07-16.txt:22:00:56: 18:37:15 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-07-16 18:37:44 `log elliott 18:37:49 2011-05-13.txt:20:26:04: No it isn't. 18:37:54 Yes it is. 18:37:56 heh, my reaction to that `log fungot was "who put Underload in fungot's markoviser?" 18:38:09 `log ais523 18:38:14 2011-02-09.txt:21:20:35: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:38:28 There's something terribly amusing about that. 18:38:29 `log ais523 18:38:34 2010-10-07.txt:20:32:34: NOP 18:38:36 `log kittens 18:38:40 2009-05-14.txt:00:04:24: A kindle of kittens. 18:38:41 omg kittens 18:38:44 me kittens 18:38:46 `log rabbits 18:38:49 2010-11-08.txt:19:46:10: "Domestic cats are similar in size to the other members of the genus Felis, typically weighing between 4 kilograms (8 lb 13 oz) and 5 kilograms (11 lb 0 oz). -- The smallest adult cat ever officially recorded weighed around 1.36 kilograms (3 lb)." -- "[Rabbits'] size can range anywhere from 20 cm 18:38:53 `log zruty 18:38:57 2011-09-13.txt:18:38:53: `log zruty 18:39:11 Perfect. 18:39:12 zruty 18:39:23 `log is now unnecessary; remove it. 18:39:23 Phantom_Hoover: that was from "is cat or rabbit bigger" 18:39:26 2011-09-13.txt:18:39:23: `log is now unnecessary; remove it. 18:39:35 Ah. 18:39:37 Phantom_Hoover: after what, fizzie's cat/rabbit line? 18:39:38 or the recursion 18:39:43 because the recursion happens all the time :P 18:39:47 `logurl 2010-11-08.txt:19:46:10: 18:39:48 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2010-11-08 18:39:55 so many logs to read, so little time 18:39:56 `log rabbit 18:40:00 2010-11-08.txt:19:44:11: Gregor: cats are larger than rabbits? 18:40:10 oh dear, I started it? 18:40:11 `log meme 18:40:15 2004-10-22.txt:15:51:07: -!- cmeme has quit (Broken pipe). 18:40:18 `log PSOX 18:40:20 who started what 18:40:22 2008-01-02.txt:19:36:17: * Sgeo is working on PSOX 18:40:24 `log feather 18:40:28 2010-06-21.txt:21:50:31: coppro, heh I realised why ais is holding back feather. So he can be the world's leading expert on it 18:40:45 I was wondering whether I'd get description of feather the language or reference to feather the injoke 18:40:54 `log feather 18:40:57 2008-06-30.txt:23:32:44: tusho: heh, you could do that in Feather 18:41:11 `log feather 18:41:14 2011-09-06.txt:21:47:16: I mentioned feather in reaction tot he "retroactive self-modification" feature a few days ago and taneb said his approach to it was actually pretty simple?? I forget/dunno how it will work though 18:41:31 -!- fungot has joined. 18:41:32 19:43:12: trying to remember elephant > camel > horse > dog > cat > rabbit is the hardest part of the game 18:41:32 19:43:41: ais523: Really? "Bigger-than" over mammals is too hard for you? 18:41:33 19:44:11: Gregor: cats are larger than rabbits? 18:41:40 Simple but memory-usey-up-a-lot-of 18:41:45 hi fungot 18:41:46 elliott: what do you mean by " taxonomic"? :) i'm learning scheme and hopefully soon re-establishing some cs cred so that i hypothesize that the oss world will have a server-side for sharing feather images, though 18:41:47 Intensive 18:41:57 feather 18:42:05 Intensive feather 18:42:28 `log international hub for 18:42:32 2009-05-07.txt:21:57:58: 05.10.10:19:09:35 --- topic: set to '#esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric' 18:42:55 19:54:29: I said |{x : x in rabbits, size(x) > (sum x in cats : size(x)) / |cats|}| > |{x : x in cats, size(x) > (sum x in dogs : size(x)) / |dogs|}|. 18:42:55 `log perl 18:42:56 help 18:42:59 2009-12-05.txt:14:35:51: wat, perl's foreach doesn't let you get the indices too? 18:42:59 we haven't had the design and deployment topic for ages 18:43:16 `log hlep 18:43:20 2011-08-13.txt:01:27:13: hlep 18:43:22 it alternates keys and values if you foreach a hash 18:43:29 normally, you foreach the keys or values of the hash specifically 18:43:40 ais523: thanks, my script was blocked on that 18:43:48 * elliott dusts off the three-year-old emacs process 18:43:55 TIME TO FINISH THIS THING 18:44:01 hey, I've answered really old questions before now 18:44:12 I've posted in multiple-year-old threads on a.l.i before, IIRC 18:44:13 20:00:08: Also if I write ungrammatically "volume of cat", it goes "Input interpretation: Caterpillar | volume" and the result is "2.981 million shares". 18:44:14 :D 18:44:17 `log alt.lang.intercal 18:44:20 2006-07-26.txt:21:39:04: alt.lang.intercal. 18:44:27 `log alt.lang.intercal 18:44:31 2009-11-17.txt:17:15:17: ais523, your recent post on alt.lang.intercal looks messed up to me 18:44:40 `log alt.lang.intercal 18:44:43 2008-02-27.txt:20:55:19: and don't you mean alt.lang.intercal 18:44:51 `log alt.lang.intercal 18:44:54 2008-04-01.txt:18:48:29: ais523: ... http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal/browse_thread/thread/5a0696843eeeb5b6/65b0d4a066a4c544#65b0d4a066a4c544 18:44:57 `log numberwang 18:45:01 2011-07-14.txt:09:23:27: Okay, now there's three esolangs called Numberwang 18:45:02 `log alt[^.]lang[^.]intercal 18:45:06 No output. 18:45:10 aww 18:45:12 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:45:19 Gregor: How much CPU is HackEgo using :P 18:45:26 `log perl 18:45:31 2010-06-26.txt:00:26:26: cpressey: Just use perl -n. 18:45:34 `log perl 18:45:38 2007-07-09.txt:03:19:16: Sukoshi: though done properly, I think the bytecode compiler could work well 18:45:39 `log alt.lang. 18:45:43 can it find the earliest mention rather than a random mention? 18:45:43 2007-04-01.txt:16:17:35: How's about posting it in alt.lang.intercal? 18:45:59 `log hyperbolic 18:46:03 2009-04-28.txt:17:44:24: In hyperbolic they're less than 180 18:46:05 calamari: with pastequotes 18:46:08 `pastequotes rare 18:46:10 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6794 18:46:13 calamari: it wouldn't be a hard modification to the script to do that 18:46:21 and I think pastequotes goes in chronological order as it is 18:46:27 hmm, does that paste load for anyone? 18:46:32 `pastequotes rare 18:46:34 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17697 18:46:40 didn't seem to work for me 18:46:43 its broke help 18:46:46 Nothing 18:46:46 hmm 18:46:52 elliott: At present, none. 18:46:59 Gregor: What did you do :P 18:47:01 `pastequote not 18:47:02 Nothing 18:47:03 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastequote: not found 18:47:03 oh 18:47:04 guys 18:47:05 pastequotes 18:47:07 not pastelogs :P 18:47:09 `pastelogs rare 18:47:13 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20848 18:47:14 lol 18:47:23 why isn't the pastequotes implemented? 18:47:30 pastequotes has a nicer ring to it 18:47:32 it is 18:47:36 but nobody's addquoted rare 18:47:38 It is something else 18:47:42 ok fine 18:47:50 `pastequotes 18:47:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20365 18:48:04 `pastelogs calamari 18:48:07 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12613 18:48:42 `pastelogs ork 18:48:45 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29876 18:49:20 ork 18:49:30 I'm interested in the context for quote 645 18:49:32 i didnt think that pastelog out very well 18:49:37 `quote 645 18:49:39 645) oh no, I think we've managed to mix three metaphors in a way that actually makes sense 18:50:08 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:50:13 `pastelogs \bork\b 18:50:16 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22066 18:50:40 Taneb: elliott used "ratify" meaning "adopt a standard", I deliberately misinterpreted it in the Agoran meaning of "retroactively change", and then obviously, someone mentioned Feather 18:50:49 thanks elliott, thats a bit closer 18:51:03 That's dissapointing 18:51:04 itidus20: it's exactly close :P assuming you wanted "ork" as a word 18:51:53 `pastelogs feather 18:51:57 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18799 18:52:11 are the old mailing list archives still available? 18:53:58 i think so 18:54:08 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_Portal#Mailing_lists 18:54:48 hehehe my message is in http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/current 18:55:16 How does Feather avert stable time loops 18:55:22 Taneb: ask ais523 :P 18:55:32 I was asking ais523 18:55:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:55:39 I just didn't say his name 18:55:52 Taneb: it doesn't, you get an infinite loop if you try 18:55:58 Hmm... 18:56:05 More use for my Feather derivative 18:56:07 the standard library is expected to contain a bunch of functions designed specifically to avoid stable time loops 18:56:08 McGraw 18:56:25 Maybe McGraw's a library 18:56:36 Taneb: I was pinging ais523 for you 18:57:18 elliott: With a Feather IRC server, that doesn't have to be true 18:57:30 2003-09-08.txt:13:17:45: The Resin Feathered is by for the largesse country of the world in are by spinning 11 tone zoans in but Erebia and As. Rise swoors brother what they flummoxed country (starting in to north and in contrescene order: Near, Finlandia, Extend, Latvia, Bowler's, Letdown (via Killmaimthem Obligation, Plenty (idem), Ukraine, Grace, Acorpolous, Kissykissy, Come, Monosyllables and Nerthe Krow. 18:57:30 2003-09-08.txt:13:27:41: Be the lied 1980s, Spit leader Michael Gravys invalid reverend such as gilligan's and proceding, but though messrs were unbluffingly the propennies the collapsed of to Spat Unium after a flat mielodorous cup i'm 1991. Two Rossum Soft Federals' Repopulate declared its independent on Acquiester 24 of that your as to Reign Feathered. Reach, as the Soft Unionist's primewer successor stood, his snack sazd the mo 18:57:30 untunmighty it's globelet 18:57:32 what 18:57:49 2008-05-09.txt:13:53:37: I'm thinking of calling it Feather, because it's so lightweight compared to most Smalltalks 18:57:53 ais523: the day of reckoning 18:58:04 It's a smallsmalltalk 18:58:07 every day since has been a dream 18:58:13 the AI that secretly run things is simulating this universe 18:58:17 to find out if ais523's creation of feather 18:58:21 will lead to an apocalypse 18:58:34 if it does, the idea will be erased from his mind 18:58:45 retroactively! 18:58:47 :D 18:58:53 being lightweight isn't just a good idea, but turns out to be inherently required for Feather to work properly 18:59:07 ais523: it causes the apocalypse by retroactively creating the AI that runs everything 18:59:17 which then destroys the universe by ending the simulation that it turns out to have been retroactively running 18:59:30 thus constituting an apocalypse 18:59:34 so the idea is then removed from your brain 18:59:36 Will retoractivity be to the start of the program or a point defined within the program? 18:59:38 and the AI stops existing 18:59:39 retroactively 18:59:47 elliott: I think it's probably even possible to retroactively modify the infinite universe such that it becomes finite 18:59:52 Taneb: start of time, or so I gather 18:59:53 as in, so that it had a start 19:00:04 -!- augur has joined. 19:00:06 Taneb: you retroactively change objects at the moment they were created 19:00:19 this includes the interpreter that interprets your program, and the interpreter that interprets /that/, etc 19:00:23 does anyone remember when rodgerthegreat got really angry demanding that feather couldn't possibly work? 19:00:24 i do :Dddd 19:00:26 also, the program itself that's fed to the interp 19:00:29 I don't 19:01:45 `log rodgerthegreat 19:01:49 2008-01-23.txt:05:38:27: or, as I like to say, memetic viruses 19:01:49 i remember logreading it 19:03:44 I don't remember saying 598 19:03:50 `quote 598 19:03:51 Well, I do, but I wish I didn't 19:03:52 598) I think it's fizzie against everyone atm AND EVERYONE IS WINNING EXCEPT FIZZIE 19:07:32 * Sgeo celebrates Programmers' Day 19:07:40 hi 19:07:43 `log Sgeo 19:07:47 hi 19:07:47 2011-07-31.txt:06:24:55: Usually 19:07:52 usually 19:07:59 ..........that's it, I'm officially boring. 19:08:01 elliott: oh, Oracle v. Google is getting amusing 19:08:19 Oracle decided that they thought that the Google person in charge of Android wasn't senior enough to be involved in mediation 19:08:26 even though he'd been involved in all the settlements so far 19:08:40 and the judge's reaction was to require the CEOs of both companies to be there 19:08:46 haha 19:08:57 I'm not sure if they'll try to wriggle out of it or attend 19:09:06 court is literally just two parties whinging and a judge trying to upset them both, right? 19:09:10 i see no evidence against this 19:09:14 somehow, I doubt that mediation's going to go too well if it is Larry v. Larry 19:09:16 elliott: quite possibly 19:09:23 Even in context, it was boring 19:09:24 this judge seems to me to have decided that both sides are playing dirty 19:09:36 I would pay to attend Larry v. Larry 19:10:11 Who's the Larry at Oracle? 19:10:13 incidentally, /me thinks he might have designed the Platonically Perfect Lisp Macro Solution 19:10:16 Sgeo: ellison... 19:10:18 Sgeo: Larry Ellison 19:10:29 ty 19:10:30 I know someone called Ellison 19:11:20 I online-know someone called Elliott 19:11:22 is that close enough? 19:11:29 Totally. 19:13:25 http://sprunge.us/TbCe 19:13:31 I _think_ I have the semantics to make this work. 19:13:56 (note that although they look similar to traditional defmacro quasiquoting, the "tmp" in the second let1 is _not_ exposed to body) 19:14:44 monqy: BE INTERESTED 19:14:52 elliott: oh dear, one of my friends in another channel, when faced with doing "does the xth character of the yth line of a file contain a particular character" in Python, decided that the easiest method was to call out to vim 19:14:54 ais523: be vaguely interested, since it's call-by-name and you dislike traditional lisp macro systems 19:14:55 zepto? it doesn't have kernels $s at least 19:14:58 and augh 19:15:00 so I figure it's not kernel 19:15:01 I'm trying to persuade him that some other method is going to be better 19:15:02 stop being their friend :'( 19:15:11 and I've never heard of anything else with vau 19:15:14 elliott: let me look at it, then 19:15:16 monqy: it's... zepto I guess, I just stole the vau name 19:15:24 it's merely an idea at this point 19:15:31 but I think it's perfectly hygienic fexprs 19:15:32 it looks a lot different from nights agos ante 19:15:35 with quasiquotation 19:16:11 interestinG??? 19:16:23 very interestinG 19:16:33 I think it's syntax-case's basic system, ported over to fexprs 19:17:53 comparing the first and the second is cond not having #, a mistake or is there reason for eval not to translate to that there 19:18:11 Picolisp ... why do picolisp macros exist? 19:18:18 hi 19:18:37 http://trydyingtolive.com/ worst website ever 19:18:39 (enable js) 19:18:46 (seriously, do it) 19:19:01 wow what 19:19:12 ais523: you will enjoy that website 19:19:19 * elliott specialises in true statements 19:19:26 I can't figure out how to edit text on that site 19:19:36 you can't 19:20:05 ais523: isn't it beautiful :') 19:20:23 it reminds me of like 19:20:26 dhtml examples 19:20:27 of the 90s 19:20:36 Why does the Resume read like a real thing 19:20:45 Sgeo: because it's a real person's site 19:21:00 they actually think this is the best way to make their website 19:21:12 * Sgeo refuses to believe that 19:21:15 It's just a fun toy 19:21:16 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/keepq/since_designers_use_fancy_looking_websites_to/ 19:21:18 Lalala 19:21:19 Since designers use fancy looking websites to show off their skills, I wondered what a developer's website would look like. This is my result. (trydyingtolive.com) 19:21:19 submitted 1 hour ago by trydyingtolive 19:21:22 * Sgeo plugs ears 19:21:28 lalalalalala 19:21:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:06 bachelor of science in youth and family ministry? is that a thing? 19:24:11 i bet Sgeo is trying to correct all the vandalism 19:24:16 god 19:24:17 he's just making it worse 19:24:18 red on blue 19:24:19 this is beautiful 19:24:23 my eyes 19:24:44 wait 19:24:48 and a catten 19:24:51 (half cat half kitten) 19:24:52 i 19:24:55 I don't think I'm doing this 19:24:58 oh 19:25:02 well I'm not doing it! 19:25:03 scroll down 19:25:14 oh dear 19:25:35 im 19:25:36 dragging 19:25:37 the resume down 19:25:43 kidnap 19:25:55 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:26:18 its so beautiful 19:26:19 ok i am done 19:26:20 Are you fiddling with the javascript for the kidnap? 19:26:37 no 19:26:57 Um, it snapped back 19:26:58 Who did that 19:27:11 an unfriendly person 19:27:18 OMG this is amazing. 19:27:24 So how does this work, then? 19:27:57 Phantom_Hoover: you drag 19:27:58 or resize 19:28:00 or 19:28:01 usethe options 19:28:02 to change 19:28:03 things 19:28:06 Ah. 19:28:19 I wonder if any attacks can be made to break out of the css 19:28:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:28:28 trydyingtolive is the worst possible name for anything ever 19:28:35 calamari: let's find out 19:28:39 Sounds Christian 19:28:44 503 Service Unavailable 19:28:45 No server is available to handle this request. 19:28:45 * elliott sets background colour to #f00;} 19:28:46 oh no 19:28:46 Some Christian stuff sounds creepy to me 19:28:53 did i brake it oops 19:29:44 change everything to #666666 ? 19:29:59 rude 19:30:02 :'( 19:30:03 im just 19:30:04 moving boxes 19:30:05 not 19:30:06 being rude 19:30:11 kidnape 19:30:42 Why does it just say #000 19:30:44 What's #000 19:30:50 black 19:30:51 #000 19:30:51 duh 19:31:00 But, why isn't there 6 digits 19:31:08 #rgb = #rrggbb 19:31:19 its an eight-bit colour 19:31:21 er hm no 19:31:23 #000 isn't an IRC channel 19:31:24 eight bit would be two hex digits 19:31:31 * Now talking on #000 19:31:31 * adams.freenode.net sets mode +n #000 19:31:33 * adams.freenode.net sets mode +s #000 19:31:37 * [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp 19:31:40 * services. removes channel operator status from elliott 19:31:42 yes it is 19:31:51 So it is 19:31:55 hmm, according to discussion in Slashdot, Windows 8 has no Start menu, even if you put it into old-fashioned desktop mode 19:31:55 weird 19:32:07 now, that's going to confuse people who can't adapt to UI change 19:32:12 Neither do the majority of modern OSs 19:32:20 Hmm, I wonder if this is a mean color 19:32:34 well, Gnome 2, KDE 3 and KDE 4 all have pretty close equivalents 19:32:38 * Sgeo changes to a lighter shade of gray 19:32:41 I'm not sure about OS X 19:33:04 os x ships with the applications folder on the dock by default 19:33:09 which pops up a list of every application, so... 19:33:12 didn't before leopard though 19:33:14 yep, same concept 19:33:30 But are any of them labelled "start"? 19:33:33 before leopard, I guess you could only use spotlight 19:33:36 before tiger 19:33:36 I 19:33:38 guess you just opened Finder 19:33:40 and went to Applications 19:33:43 Vista doesn't have a start button 19:33:43 Taneb: the /name/ is pretty irrelevant 19:33:47 It has a flag button 19:33:54 it has start if you put it into Classic 19:34:06 By default, Vista doesn't have a start button 19:34:18 It has a button with similar functionality 19:34:26 THAT IS NOT THE SAME 19:34:28 I'm trying to have a serious discussion about inferior-OSes-that-exist here 19:34:41 (as opposed to @ which is a superior-OS-that-doesn't-exist) 19:34:46 I'm trying to explain what a start button is 19:34:49 @ is not that good 19:34:53 That is, a button labelled "Start" 19:35:03 Taneb: I reject that definition, I suspect most people do too 19:35:07 * Sgeo paints a button labelled Start on Taneb 19:36:14 * calamari can't adapt to UI change :( 19:36:22 * oerjan pushes Taneb's Start button 19:36:23 * Sgeo may be addicted to UI change 19:36:31 still running kde 3.5 19:36:47 ais523: i'm enjoying this five-minute thing where you accidentally explain the entire uk political system to vorpal 19:36:54 I like what's in that new ubuntu thing that I forget the name of 19:36:55 Unity 19:36:57 See a new UI, want it 19:36:59 elliott: accidentally? 19:37:07 And I'm probably the only one who does 19:37:09 01:10:17: ais523, is that even allowed by the constitution? 19:37:09 [...] 19:37:10 01:16:27: ais523, how did he managed to become elected then 19:37:10 I think tht webpage automatically reverts changes after a while 19:37:11 [...] 19:37:14 01:17:05: he was appointed to the house of Lords 19:37:14 01:17:21: ais523, what does that mean. I forgot how UK politics work 19:37:17 etc. 19:37:40 elliott: I have to explain the UK itself to a lot of people 19:37:45 a lot of IRCers seem to think UK = England 19:37:53 which offends me just as much as it offends most non-English Brits 19:37:53 01:18:18: there was a huge scandal recently where Lords memberships were allegedly paid for 19:37:54 01:18:30: that's no democracy... 19:38:00 this is hilarious 19:38:04 But us know that UK ACTUALLY = Southern Spain 19:38:13 * Sgeo is vaguely aware that there's a difference. England is a strict subset of UK? 19:38:19 01:19:14: ais523, I mean the house of lords in general is undemocratic 19:38:19 01:19:39: having such a thing should disqualify UK as being counted as a democracy 19:38:21 Sgeo: yes 19:38:26 ais523: yeah wouldn't want to get confused with those filthy scots 19:38:31 Sgeo: what do you think scotland is? 19:38:36 apart from filthy 19:38:43 elliott, a country of some sort? 19:38:52 Technically right 19:38:57 Sgeo: entirely separate from england? 19:39:05 Taneb: also technically wrong 19:39:08 01:25:40: hmm... ehird would probably be highly amused to know that Lord Mandelson was the Baron of Hartlepool 19:39:09 01:25:45: I mean, Hartlepool! 19:39:09 hartlepool!!! 19:39:15 ais523: Scotland is a country, just not a state 19:39:22 or, hmm 19:39:25 elliott, no idea. I'd have thought so. Then again, I would not be able to point out Scotland on a map 19:39:26 yeah, it's not a state 19:39:27 We're like Canada, but inside out 19:39:29 the word "country" isn't well-defined enough for it to really work 19:39:34 Sgeo: you're kidding me, right? 19:39:34 it's a dependency of the UK, technically speaking 19:39:37 it may be other things too 19:39:44 I can accept ignorance on what the UK exactly constitutes 19:39:50 but not knowing where Scotland is, even vaguely? 19:39:57 thinking it's completely unrelated to England? 19:40:06 Based on the context, I guess that it's near or in the UK 19:40:10 elliott: I doubt I'd get all the dependencies of the UK from memory, or that you would 19:40:14 Very in 19:40:24 Sgeo: wow 19:40:27 Sgeo, wat 19:40:27 It's one of the Kingdoms that United ot form the United Kingdom 19:40:34 Phantom_Hoover needs to get really offended now, this is unbelievable 19:40:39 Sgeo, have you, like, seen a picture of the UK/ 19:40:41 Ever? 19:40:43 Did 19:40:44 did you 19:40:44 are all US citizens this insanely ignorant??? like 19:40:46 i thought the whole 19:40:50 USers are dum at geography lol thing 19:40:51 was 19:40:54 way exaggerated 19:40:57 did you think scotland was part of england 19:41:07 ... 19:41:09 Phantom_Hoover: i think he thought scotland was unrelated to england... 19:41:10 and just... 19:41:12 a country somewhere 19:41:13 elliott, yes but 19:41:21 im crying 19:41:23 I assume he's seen what the British Isles look like. 19:41:25 At some point. 19:41:27 Sgeo: what do you think wales is 19:41:29 no wait 19:41:31 Sgeo: what do you think ireland is 19:41:38 Ooh, that's a good one 19:41:41 I would like to say, on behalf of all Americans, that Scotland is on Great Britain, and also Sweden and Switzerland are the same country. 19:41:41 Thus, he must have thought Scotland was just part of England. 19:41:52 On Great Britain. 19:41:54 Like, Scotland is layer two. 19:41:57 Isn't Ireland some... island thing, or otherwise related to islands. 19:41:58 Our sky is just Scotland's underside. 19:42:04 Sgeo, ..... 19:42:06 Sgeo: What's Wales 19:42:09 No googlin 19:42:10 g 19:42:18 elliott, related to this whole UK thing somehow. 19:42:24 Sgeo, http://qntm.org/uk 19:42:27 Sgeo: That's cheating based on context 19:42:29 What did you think before now 19:42:31 Learn you a UK geography. 19:42:34 Ireland is north of England, isn't it? 19:42:43 I 19:42:47 elliott: Would you rather I'd said "on the island of Great Britain"? No preposition works particularly well there. 19:42:56 In 19:42:59 Sgeo: So 19:43:01 About Wales 19:43:04 What did you think it was before now 19:43:11 Great Britian isn't actually an island 19:43:12 Gregor: austria and australia too 19:43:17 A country perhaps vaguely in the area 19:43:19 The island is Britain 19:43:21 oerjan: Yes. 19:43:24 im going to draw Sgeo's idea of uk 19:43:45 I 19:43:50 Taneb: Faaaaaaairly sure that the island of Britain is the island of Great Britain, and furthermore one of the British isles. 19:43:54 I guess it's true in some ways?????? 19:44:07 Great Britain is a geopolitical region 19:44:10 I mean, I can see Kintyre on a good day in Nowhere, Ireland. 19:44:30 TO WIKIPEDIA! 19:44:38 Wait, is the island that England is on divided such that part of it isn't England? 19:44:51 Yup 19:45:03 And some of England is on other islands 19:45:06 For instance, Wight 19:45:09 Gregor: you're correct there 19:45:11 "Some people living in Northern Ireland (which is part of the UK) would even like Northern Ireland itself classified as part of the ROI instead of the UK. This is a contentious point." 19:45:18 ais523: Yeah, just concluded that :P 19:45:19 Taneb: the Isle of Wight is not part of England 19:45:22 it's a dependency of its own 19:45:29 Contentious point links to the WP article on the Troubles. 19:45:33 That's the Isle of Man, ais523 19:45:38 Taneb: I think they both aren't 19:45:42 not sure about the Isle of Wight 19:45:47 The Isle of Wight is definitely part of England 19:45:47 I'm definitely sure about the Isle of Man 19:45:50 Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo: Taneb: Sgeo's United Kingdom: http://ompldr.org/vYWM2NA 19:46:04 what about the Channel Islands? part of the UK, but are they part of England? 19:46:15 Neither 19:46:15 Phantom_Hoover: I love WP's jokes-via-links 19:46:25 They're like the Island of Man 19:46:32 elliott, that was from qntm, actually. 19:46:36 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scotireland 19:46:36 Sgeo: So did you seriously think Scotland was just some place. 19:46:37 Phantom_Hoover: Oh. 19:46:38 There's Guernsey, Jersey, Alderney, and Sark 19:46:48 * oerjan cackles veilly 19:46:51 Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo: Taneb: Sgeo's United Kingdom: http://ompldr.org/vYWM2NA // the best UK 19:46:54 Why wouldn't it be just some place? Aren't all places just some place? 19:46:55 Sgeo, but didn't you know that we hate the English. 19:46:57 I think Alderney was the last place to abandon the feudal system 19:46:58 I mean 19:47:03 Sgeo: Yes, but you didn't think it was related to England in any way. 19:47:04 They weren't invading in boats 19:47:16 Sgeo: I mean, did you just think it was some random European country?? 19:47:30 I think I was envisioning Scotland to the east of England 19:47:31 Phantom_Hoover: They totally should have. 19:47:43 Phantom_Hoover: Imagine them just... hating a country on the other side of the globe to them. 19:47:46 Sgeo: Where do you think Herzogovinia is? 19:47:48 I'm pretty sure that Scotland is just another name for Sweden and Switzerland. 19:47:49 Wait, that's what America does. 19:48:01 Taneb, isn't that Switzerland? 19:48:05 Taneb: Sweden 19:48:07 Just that Switzerland is the Swiss name, Sweden is the Swedish name, and Scotland is the Scotch name. 19:48:07 Taneb, can't tell if you just made that up 19:48:35 Gregor: Confoederatio Helvetica! 19:48:44 They must speak like twenty languages in Swedotzerland, though all begin with an 'S' and most begin with 'sw'. 19:48:47 Switzerland: named by font nerds. 19:48:47 Sgeo, Herzegovina? 19:48:51 Taneb, see correction. 19:49:04 I can never spell it 19:49:10 I can barely spell Britain 19:49:14 Sgeo: Scotland's to the north of England 19:49:20 Sgeo, obviously you weren't there for every Eurovison contest ever. 19:49:33 2006 was a good year for Eurovision 19:49:42 Lithuania and Finland especially 19:49:42 Eurovision is like, the most European thing ever. 19:49:43 * Sgeo still holds the Mornington Crescent hypothesis 19:49:47 Taneb, was that The One Where Finland Won. 19:49:58 Name something more European than Eurovision. 19:49:59 Mornington Crescent is in London 19:49:59 I voted for them! 19:49:59 I dare you. 19:50:02 quite near Euston 19:50:02 Sgeo: Also, where's Brittany in relation to Britain? 19:50:21 See? You can't. 19:50:29 The European Union? 19:50:35 Not really 19:50:43 That doesn't even have Norway 19:50:47 Sgeo: but seriously, go look at a globe, please. 19:50:58 Look at the UK, it's the thing that looks like a pound sign. 19:51:01 Except flipped. 19:51:06 This is where the pound sign comes from. 19:51:15 Sgeo, the EU doesn't even have Switzerland in it! 19:51:21 Taneb: Forget Norway! 19:51:22 I always thought the British Isles looked like Dangermouse and Penfold 19:51:36 Phantom_Hoover: Agree that the British Isles are the prettiest geographical formation??? 19:51:37 Taneb: I'M WATCHING DANGER MOUSE RIGHT NOW! 19:51:38 All the other islands are like 19:51:39 Just blobs 19:51:41 The UK sort of 19:51:43 Disintegrates 19:51:43 to the left 19:51:49 s/UK/Britsh Isles/ 19:51:52 w/e 19:52:09 Scotland has a bunch of offshore islands, ranging from interesting to tiny and worthless 19:52:09 But seriously, apart from the Nordic countries and the British Isles, all the other land is SO BORING shape-wise. 19:52:10 elliott, you're just discussing the beauty of Scotland. 19:52:22 Phantom_Hoover: Well OK but look the whole thing looks like an icon. 19:52:25 Newfoundland's pretty interesting 19:52:29 No other island group looks like an icon. 19:52:30 One side of it, anyway 19:52:42 they were used for the first reality TV show, before the genre got bad 19:52:43 ais523: I'm sure they'd be quite upset at the worthless part 19:53:11 ais523, hey, some of them have entertaining names! 19:53:13 Rhum! 19:53:18 elliott: the really worthless ones, nobody lives on 19:53:23 Eigg! 19:53:24 so there's nobody to get upset at the insult 19:53:35 Also Rhum has deer! 19:53:35 ais523: I'll be upset for them. 19:53:45 elliott: By the way, where's Saskatchewan? :P 19:53:54 Gregor: Canada. 19:54:04 Canada is as big as Europe :P 19:54:11 ais523, also apparently the sailing there is really good. 19:54:13 It's near the middle at the bottom! 19:54:21 Gregor: Saskatchewan is a big part of Canada. 19:55:11 africa is a bigger country ;) 19:55:20 AAARGH! 19:55:31 By the standard of Canadian provinces, Saskatchewan is pretty normal-sized I'd say. 19:55:34 I JUST HEARD THE NOISE MY PHONE MAKES WHEN I HAVE A TEXT MESSAGE 19:55:41 Taneb: NOOOOOOOOOooooooOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOOooOOOOOOooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 19:55:42 oooooooo 19:55:44 do you have a text message 19:55:56 Only in the strictest sense 19:56:01 It was from twitter 19:56:03 oh 19:56:26 rhum and eigg liquor 19:57:01 anyone can verify this? 19:57:03 Make sure you don't get any Muck in that, oerjan 19:57:04 λx. x λy. y λz.z λw. w z y x == (λx.((x)λy.((y)λz.((z)λw.((((w)z)y)x))))) 19:57:23 Taneb: ok 19:57:44 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:58:25 itidus20: Looks right 19:58:45 itidus20: But I would avoid the second one like THE PLAGUE 19:58:58 its going too far? 19:59:50 Pretty sure λ syntax is ambiguous in that position, but w/e. 20:00:00 i think λx. x (λy. y (λz. z (λw. w z y x))) would be more reasonable, it helps parsing without being unreadable 20:00:24 elliott: Hey, where's Arkansas? Also how do you pronounce it? Also hahaha I'm indirectly comparing Arkansas to Scotland (I guess that should be "haha"'d at Phantom_Hoover though) 20:00:39 elliott: well yeah.. good point.. the book has an interpretation.. i forgot to mention that 20:00:40 brb 20:00:58 Gregor: US. 20:01:00 Arkansaw. 20:01:14 Southern US, but I already googled it by the time I remembered that :P 20:01:24 not arkensaw? 20:01:30 Well yeah. 20:01:31 the book uses some notations such as: E1 E2 E3 means ((E1 E2) E3) 20:01:39 itidus20: that's standard notation 20:01:39 and λx . E1 E2 E3 means (λx . (E1 E2 E3)) and not ((λx . E1 E2) E3). 20:01:40 what are you reading 20:01:53 i dont actually know its a chapter i found online in pdf format 20:02:30 specifically it said "The 20:02:31 following notational conventions allow abbreviations that reduce the number 20:02:31 of parentheses:" 20:02:56 sorry.. bad post editng 20:02:56 itidus20: looks pretty similar to haskell's convention, except for the symbols 20:02:56 elliott: Hey, where's Arkansas? Also how do you pronounce it? Also hahaha I'm indirectly comparing Arkansas to Scotland (I guess that should be "haha"'d at Phantom_Hoover though) 20:03:04 (\ and -> instead) 20:03:09 I should stop randomly shouting UPDATE into MSPA channels 20:03:11 Somewhere in the middle, possibly to the south? also "arkansaw". 20:03:21 Even with context that I'm just shouting it randomly 20:03:36 I hope Gregor doesn't ask me about something not on the American continent :P 20:03:36 Sgeo: randomly as in not necessarily when an update actually has happened? 20:03:42 monqy, 20:03:44 yes 20:04:00 My point was just that, as bizarre as it was to not know where Scotland is (which I am not forgiving), it's not like you've got a razor-sharp impression of our continent either. 20:04:11 elliott: what's the capital of burkina faso ;P 20:04:20 trouble is since i only have a chapter of the book theres no answers :P 20:04:32 I'm not going to ask about Asia or Africa because I don't know where anything is there X-P 20:04:34 * Sgeo doesn't know the states all that well. Just the obvious ones 20:04:37 oerjan: Muslimville 20:04:38 (i'm asking because it sounds funny) 20:04:44 Gregor: Sure, but I know what's a state/province of what :P 20:04:49 elliott: That's MuslimVALE. 20:04:59 elliott: ok _maybe_ that's what it means, but no 20:05:05 Gregor: And not knowing that Scotland is related to England in any way is just unforgivable :P 20:05:10 Fair 'nuff. 20:05:16 Gregor, I can place African and Asian countries on a rough north/south and east/west axis respectively. 20:05:36 * Sgeo can't :( 20:05:39 The Asian countries are roughly north-east of the African countries. 20:05:49 I know that Japan is an island 20:05:57 No it's not. 20:06:07 Japan is several islands. 20:06:08 Sgeo, the trick with Asia is that most of the west is stans. 20:06:12 Japan is an archipelago. 20:06:16 pikhq_, 4 main ones. 20:06:20 Of 6,852 islands, said Wikipedia. 20:06:22 Japastan. 20:06:27 Phantom_Hoover: which is definitely not "an island". 20:06:35 Four is quite thoroughly bigger than one. 20:07:08 Phantom_Hoover: you mean most of the middle. 20:07:30 http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/ke8qi/a_14yearold_boy_got_into_a_fight_at_a_school_bus/c2jkyty?context=3 20:07:37 oerjan: China is most of the middle. 20:07:44 Sgeo, shooting in the thigh is most certainly not something you do if you're avoiding lethality. 20:08:00 The thigh is well-known to contain the brain. 20:08:03 Hence the name 中国. 20:08:06 s/in the thigh/ 20:08:09 // 20:08:16 pikhq_: erm no. china is at the east of asia. admittedly it's quite wide, but not that wide. 20:08:21 (lit. middle country, or "central country") 20:08:21 seems to be Text: Formal Syntax and Semantics of Programming Languages 20:08:29 Sgeo: Yes, it is literally impossible to non-fatally wound someone with a gun. 20:08:29 (though part of that's just their ego) 20:08:32 There is at least one big artery in the thigh, and cutting it will kill you from blood loss long before any treatment can be made. 20:08:43 Wasn't entirely aware when I wrote that that the thigh would be especially lethal, just that in general you don't shoot to wound 20:08:44 elliott, it is not impossible, it is just much much harder than most people think. 20:09:06 Just go for the ribcage, it has a lot of bones 20:09:41 Legs. 20:09:56 Calves, even. 20:09:56 oerjan: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Asia_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg Okay, so it's not *most* of the middle. But holy fuck it's huge. 20:10:14 How serious are ear-wounds 20:10:22 Can you just blow someone's ear off and watch it flap away 20:10:24 elliott: How good is your aim? :P 20:10:40 Gregor: My hands are never not shaky. So let's give it a try! 20:11:04 pikhq_: eek 20:11:07 "Who else has both ears pierced? Pirates! But then, they're sailors." 20:12:18 elliott, just make the shakes cancel out. 20:12:34 pikhq_: hm it actually looks plausible that the center of mass might be in china. i'm surprised. 20:12:37 Hello 20:12:41 hello 20:12:46 What did I miss? 20:13:08 I can't be bothered to scroll up, you see 20:13:36 you missed a murder... 20:13:39 `log murder 20:13:43 2010-09-12.txt:04:29:12: cpressey: Permission requested to murder you deeply. 20:13:47 deeply 20:13:56 `logurl 2010-09-12.txt:04:29:12: 20:13:58 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2010-09-12 20:14:16 oooh 20:14:17 ahhh 20:14:19 eeeh 20:14:24 uuuh 20:14:32 Why am I giglly 20:14:35 gggly 20:14:43 `log table 20:14:47 2011-09-04.txt:21:32:49: Gregor: Also, object fields should totally be immutable by default :P 20:14:51 Sgeo... 20:15:03 * Sgeo is entirely 100% sober 20:16:35 That's about 2% more sober than me 20:16:58 Funny, I'm 2% sober. 20:17:04 elliott: also, the answer is ouagadougou 20:17:20 That's the capital of Burkina Faso! 20:17:22 oerjan: nice name 20:17:37 Taneb: "that was the question" 20:17:44 Wow 20:18:26 What a crazy world 20:18:42 What's the capital of OREGON??? 20:19:02 PHOENIX 20:19:03 Gregor: is this one of those tricky cases where it's _not_ portland? 20:19:04 ALBANY 20:19:12 oerjan: IT IS ... like most US states. 20:19:13 SPRINGFIELD 20:19:24 Gregor: was a fraidso 20:19:28 I would estimate that less than half of US states have their capital in the largest city. 20:19:33 * Sgeo cheats 20:19:45 Q: What's that capital of [...]? A: Irrelevant. 20:20:11 Is there any capital not named Portland 20:20:16 What's the largest city ... /in the woooooooorld/? 20:20:23 I always used to think Portland was a country 20:20:30 Gregor: beijing? 20:20:34 It's Java? 20:20:44 I thought it was Mexico City. But I also think it depends on your definition. 20:20:46 largest by what measure? if by importance, the one I am currently in 20:20:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_cities 20:20:51 wow this is complicated 20:20:59 Portland is an islandy peninsula thing in Devon or is it Dorset 20:21:02 I think the main reason I've heard of Portland, Oregon is 1/0 20:21:13 Gregor: It's either Tokyo or Shanghai 20:21:22 Mexico City is like number two or so 20:21:25 Dunno 20:21:28 I think the main reason I've heard of Portland, Oregon is 1/0 20:21:36 wow 20:21:37 I thought Gregor was from there or something/ 20:21:45 IT IS POSSIBLE 20:21:52 I would estimate that less than half of US states have their capital in the largest city. 20:22:00 Stupid capital friends! 20:22:17 ........... 20:22:21 http://www.undefined.net/1/0/?strip=993 20:22:31 Gregor, Glasgow. 20:22:42 Oh 20:22:49 Glasgow is capital? 20:22:57 No, but it's the biggest 20:22:59 I thought it was Edinburgh. 20:22:59 Oh. 20:23:01 As in, "(state [not US sense, governmental entity] with stupid capital) friends" 20:23:02 It's like Prudhoe 20:23:11 It's actually bigger than Hexham 20:23:19 "capital of scotlan" --> "Answer: Edinburgh, assuming scotlan is an administrative division. Computed by Wolfram|Alpha at Tue Sep 13 2011 21:23:42 GMT+0100 (BST)" 20:23:20 thanks ddg 20:23:22 lol at assuming 20:23:52 otoh i just learned the other week from a quiz that birmingham was the second largest city in the ... hm was it the uk or just england 20:23:52 SCOTLAN 20:23:58 The network of Scots 20:23:59 Edinburgh IS the capital of scotlan, it's just not the capital of Scotland is all. 20:24:05 Sgeo, it's what we call our top secret... yeah. 20:24:14 We make fun of the English on it. 20:24:23 Wow, Hexham and Scotland have swapped populations 20:24:24 oerjan: It's the second largest ... airport in the UK :P 20:24:34 I meant Prudhoe 20:24:38 Prudhoe and Scotland 20:24:47 BUT WHAT IS THE CAPITAL OF HEXHAM (the land of six pigs) 20:24:55 Lowgate 20:25:06 * Taneb nods sagely 20:25:06 Decpork 20:25:22 I'm gonna call this place Sixpig from now on. 20:25:40 :D 20:25:54 or, using the sanskrit name for six, shitbacon 20:25:58 The amusement park where you ride pigs? 20:26:02 *shatbacon 20:26:23 Wait, that makes no snse 20:26:25 Fuck sense 20:26:34 olsner: why not use the swedish word duh 20:26:42 * oerjan cackles evilly 20:26:43 "Why do you like Six Flags?" "I LIKE RIDING FLAGS" 20:27:28 oerjan: SEXBACON 20:27:51 there, happy now? 20:27:55 yes 20:27:57 Lowgate 20:28:06 Please tell me this is some local joke. 20:28:16 It's a little village to the West 20:28:21 Also I keep misreading "Prudhoe" as "Purdue" 20:28:31 Practically in Hexham 20:28:37 But really to one side 20:28:40 Gregor: perhaps that's how purdue was named 20:28:48 One of my friends lives there 20:29:03 hmm, this is a very strange eval 20:29:13 it's more like calling a procedure than actual eval 20:29:20 it's an evil 20:29:23 MISTER RIUS 20:29:35 oerjan: no :'( 20:29:36 it nice 20:30:12 `log pornography 20:30:17 2009-01-09.txt:17:14:14: OH NO, PORNOGRAPHY 20:30:27 OH NO PORNO 20:30:28 X-D 20:30:29 `log eval 20:30:33 2010-08-05.txt:22:37:36: cpressey: evaluations/pure computations? 20:30:34 `log prepromorphism 20:30:38 2011-02-02.txt:21:01:16: zygohistomorphic_prepromorphism f = g_prepro (distZygoT (liftAlgebra f) (distHisto id)) 20:30:42 `log \beval\b 20:30:46 2007-05-29.txt:22:32:26: eval(code){code.replace("\\n","\n"); s=code.split("\n"); if(s.length==1)print code; else eval(s[0].regex_replace(s[1],s[2])); } 20:30:46 I keep forgetting that Fellside is a place 20:30:53 `log \beval\b 20:30:57 2011-01-18.txt:17:32:55: ais523: eval doesn't operate on strings here 20:30:59 Taneb: a fell place? 20:31:06 `log \beval\b 20:31:09 2006-01-14.txt:00:31:39: It's not good style, but you could generate a temporary name and that way use a predicate received as an argument, which would be like "eval"ing the argument in perl or some lisp-like thing. 20:31:30 `log eval.*pornography 20:31:34 2011-09-13.txt:20:31:30: `log eval.*pornography 20:31:45 SON I AM DISAPPOINT 20:31:56 It can give that for things that actually have answers, too. 20:32:16 `log agrophnimorpic seprogniph 20:32:18 Yes, my main disappoint is in YOUUUUUUUU 20:32:20 2011-09-13.txt:20:32:16: `log agrophnimorpic seprogniph 20:32:31 `log [^`] 20:32:37 that query won't find itself 20:32:40 shuf: memory exhausted 20:32:49 ais523: tru dat XD 20:33:01 `log [^`]watermelon 20:33:05 2008-05-20.txt:20:50:45: WATERMELONS 20:33:18 ais523: umm, that doesn't really do what you want 20:33:27 elliott: err, indeed 20:33:30 `log [^]]watermelon 20:33:33 that's better 20:33:34 2008-05-20.txt:20:50:48: WATERMELONS 20:33:35 heh 20:33:44 `log [^]]zygohistomorphic diodsjfof 20:33:47 `log watermelon 20:33:48 No output. 20:33:50 2011-09-13.txt:20:33:34: 2008-05-20.txt:20:50:48: WATERMELONS 20:34:07 `log bacon 20:34:10 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to frownyface. 20:34:10 2008-06-13.txt:19:33:20: ERDOS BACON 20:34:14 -!- frownyface has changed nick to copumpkin. 20:34:24 Does anyone know CHR? I suppose not. 20:34:29 fax did. 20:34:32 erdos bacon? now that's just evil 20:35:05 `log [^`] that query won't find itself // actually this query WILL find itself. 20:35:21 Gregor: see my correction above 20:35:29 `log self-reference 20:35:32 2011-02-24.txt:00:18:19: Mathnerd314: well i first detected accidental self-reference 20:35:58 `log immoral 20:36:01 2009-05-05.txt:17:35:19: GregorR: Selling non-scarce resources is inherently immoral, imo. 20:36:04 `log immoral 20:36:07 Aaah! 20:36:08 2010-03-01.txt:13:27:43: trust Eliezer Yudkowsky to remark on how immoral creating a lookup table can be 20:36:09 `log immortal 20:36:12 Windows 8! 20:36:13 2008-04-01.txt:19:26:38: ' PLEASE NOTE THAT IMMORTALITY IS TREASON' 20:36:23 I talk a lot. 20:36:25 `log morale 20:36:28 2011-01-01.txt:19:32:02: THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES 20:36:30 oerjan: that's a quote from your interp in intercal, no? 20:36:32 unlambda, I think? 20:36:35 `log immorale 20:36:38 `log alternate 20:36:39 2011-09-13.txt:20:36:35: `log immorale 20:36:41 `log immortale 20:36:42 2007-07-13.txt:21:15:30: SimonRC: i think an alternate mood for "to be" would be nice 20:36:44 `log amplicate 20:36:45 2011-09-13.txt:20:36:41: `log immortale 20:36:47 2011-09-13.txt:20:36:44: `log amplicate 20:36:50 `log alternate universe 20:36:50 `log phantasm 20:36:54 2009-09-10.txt:20:35:41: AnMaster: i'm the alternate universe ehird. 20:36:54 2008-10-19.txt:19:03:18: The books were: "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", "Phantasmagoria and Other Poems", "Sylvie and Bruno", "The Game of Logic", "The Hunting of the Snark" and "Through the Looking-Glass" 20:37:00 `log hoover 20:37:04 2011-07-13.txt:22:45:00: augur, you'll have to comb the logs. 20:37:09 `log phantom 20:37:10 I guess it was inevitable. 20:37:13 2010-12-01.txt:16:56:56: Phantom_Hoover_: But C-CoRN is awesome. 20:37:17 HackEgo: I'm disappointed that that fizzie quote didn't mention Bjorn 20:37:20 `log phantom[^_] 20:37:23 `log bjorn 20:37:24 2010-12-21.txt:22:05:26: Phantom_Hoover: Phantomhn Hoover? 20:37:26 2010-07-27.txt:23:58:31: SLOWLY DISROBING EVERY PERSON IN THE ROOM, BRIAN BLESSED THOUGHT OF BJORN, LOUDLY. 20:37:31 wat 20:37:33 oerjan: that's a quote from your interp in intercal, no? <-- um i doubt it was intended as such... 20:37:43 elliott: hey, is the meme-bjorn pronounced "byorn" or "b'jorn"? 20:37:43 oerjan: I meant the 2008-04-01.txt:19:26:38: ' PLEASE NOTE THAT IMMORTALITY IS TREASON' 20:37:50 which I suspect was a quote from that 20:37:51 Samsung and Apple hate eachother 20:37:52 ais523: I think the latter 20:38:00 so do I, for some reason 20:38:20 oerjan: do you have a link to it, so that I can check? 20:38:53 elliott: ah indeed it is 20:39:03 told you 20:39:11 so i can tell myself zero is λf.λx.x and that λf.λx.x is (λf.(λx.(x))), but i can't imagine what use this is 20:39:23 It is every use 20:39:43 itidus20: you want numbers, no? 20:39:49 that's a representation of the natural numbers 20:40:00 i much prefer to say ram in computer memory is in the binary states 0 and 1 20:40:08 lol 20:40:11 it makes more sense to my poor brain 20:40:12 you don't know what you're talking about 20:40:13 as usual 20:40:27 They are in HIGH and LOW states 20:40:27 well, /technically/ it could end up metastable if you overclocked it 20:40:36 at least for a while 20:40:40 well yeah 20:40:42 I doubt it'd stay that way for long 20:41:03 but there's a theorem that there's always going to be some metastable state that persists arbitrarily long 20:41:03 humm 20:41:21 itidus20, you know how the Church numerals work? 20:41:26 what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it 20:41:31 Phantom_Hoover: Obviously not 20:41:37 `addquote what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it 20:41:38 659) what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it 20:41:52 shift more pebbles into your visual field and you can count them 20:42:13 What if you drew two circles on each pebble? 20:43:03 not sure then 20:43:09 That has very little applications in lambda calculus 20:43:17 I just wanted to see what you would say 20:43:23 absence of pebbles in the eye calculator = zero 20:43:29 I think you'd have twice as many circles as pepples 20:43:32 What's the Mogensen-whatever encoding of a pebble? 20:43:43 itidus20, do you therefore find calculus trivial? 20:43:59 i don't have any mathematical background 20:45:17 Go back to f(f(x)) and so on 20:45:42 What if x wasn't 0, but another lambda calculus number thing 20:46:04 With the f and x already filled in 20:46:48 elliott: http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/intercal/unlambda.li btw 20:47:14 humm.. 20:47:35 oerjan: hm what's te .l part do 20:47:51 allows # comments 20:48:44 ah 20:48:45 cheating :) 20:48:49 s/te/the/ 20:48:53 maybe i am unconciously blocking myself from lambda cacl 20:48:54 calc 20:49:02 like i am trying to resist something about it 20:49:08 I thought the same 20:49:15 Then one day, I just cracked it 20:49:17 as if it were trying to undermine something i believe it 20:49:34 i have never had such trouble to understand a concept 20:49:50 that's because you've refused to just read a tutorial 20:50:01 you're trying to figure it out yourself from scratch and this only works for utterly trivial things 20:50:30 for the beginner and the expert at lambda calculus there is still only LC expressions.. 20:50:36 what 20:50:37 You have to stop thinking about λfx.f x as a number and think about it as a function that takes two things and returns a third 20:50:59 then why is it called a number? 20:51:07 Because it represents a number 20:51:21 It's like a painting can represent a church BUT IT IS NOT A CHURCH 20:51:33 oh.. representation 20:51:53 ceci n'est pas une church 20:52:11 (λfx.f x)(λx.x+1)(0) <--- Evaluate, itidus20 20:52:12 itidus20, more accurately, 'number' essentially just means 'thing that behaves in a certain way'. 20:52:22 church numerals are the church encoding of the data type data Nat = Succ Nat | Zero 20:52:30 Taneb: don't 20:52:40 he's had enough confusion by thinking you "mix" the LC with "other procedures from outside" 20:52:40 Taneb: what you call "churches" are just representations of paintings 20:52:43 um 20:52:43 Yeah, I'm probably doing more harm than good 20:52:54 using standard arithmetic notation won't help that :P 20:52:59 or the fold for that datatype 20:53:03 hang on 4.. 5 ..6 ..7 posts flying past.. now i will cut and paste the thing into my typing box 20:53:04 In the case of natural numbers, which the Church encoding is a case of, you simply need to have something called 0, and something called S, and some guarantees about their behaviour. 20:53:09 I forget. Church numerals are functions, or what? 20:53:24 Specifically, that S(n) is distinct from n for all n. 20:53:27 * Sgeo should just wikipedia 20:53:41 Phantom_Hoover: Obviously this will help immensely, considering itidus20 doesn't even grasp the basics of how LC works. 20:53:43 Sgeo, you really aren't having a very good day today, are you? 20:54:01 elliott, I'm sorry I can only argue that I was less unhelpful than Taneb. 20:54:16 I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee 20:54:28 haha 20:54:45 Can you build reals in lambda calculus 20:54:48 it doesn't help that probably the best-qualified people are deliberately avoiding trying :P 20:54:56 Sgeo: today is not your day 20:55:20 `addquote I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee 20:55:22 660) I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee 20:55:24 oerjan, do things already 20:55:29 I mean.. wait, clearly, integers are a subset of reals 20:55:34 that is a thing but the wrong thing 20:55:42 Can you build the ... why wouldn't you be able to, just and all the computables 20:55:46 * Sgeo facepalm? 20:55:52 Facepalm indeed. 20:55:57 well it evaluates to 1 20:56:02 Sgeo: Have you gone insane from not eating or something. 20:56:15 I should go hurry to school 20:56:36 itidus20: what evaluates to 1 again? I'm lost 20:56:44 Sgeo, at *4*? 20:56:47 (λfx.f x)(λx.x+1)(0) does 20:56:50 `addquote Can you build the ... why wouldn't you be able to, just and all the computables 20:56:51 It's almost 5 20:56:52 661) Can you build the ... why wouldn't you be able to, just and all the computables 20:56:54 Yes 20:56:59 Sgeo: That answers Phantom_Hoover's question? 20:57:02 itidus20, forget that, Taneb is stupid. 20:57:10 elliott, technically, yes 20:57:15 No it doesn't. 20:57:22 Sgeo: At *5*? 20:57:28 elliott, yes. 20:57:32 =P 20:57:35 Sgeo: Also not an answer. 20:57:50 Wait of course you Americans call university college and then call that school because you are stupid and bad. 20:57:59 Now, (λfx.f x)(λnfx.f(n f x))((λfx.f (f x))(λx.x+1)(0)) 20:58:12 Taneb: That... 20:58:19 You're just going to make him think the LC has a number type. 20:58:24 Except express that more confusingly. 20:58:33 Taneb is also stupid and wrong. 20:58:44 I'm right enough to fool myself 20:58:51 Which makes me even more wrong 20:59:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:00:08 Taneb: i suspect you misparenthesized that 21:00:31 It is pfuew- bracketed perfectly 21:00:32 because (λfx.f x)(λx.x+1)(0) = (λf.(λx.(f x)))(λx.(x+1))(0) = ((λx.(x+1)) (0)) = (0+1) = (1) 21:00:58 Taneb: well the second function never gets all its arguments 21:01:00 sorry i didnt actually start looking at that other thing 21:01:11 itidus20: note how for every church numeral n, n(λx.x+1)(0) produces n as a numeral. 21:01:20 (If Taneb is going to be confusing like that, I might as well help.) 21:02:04 If you call λx.x+1 f and 0 x, you can forget about the 0 and the +1! 21:02:33 So helpful, Taneb. 21:02:35 So. Helpful. 21:02:44 itidus20 will know LC by the end of the week. 21:03:11 my brain seizes up often in a way which isn't clear externally 21:03:36 i am surprised sometimes i can remember how to walk 21:03:45 (not really) 21:03:53 DF counts lye as a food. 21:04:07 the food is a lye! 21:04:26 oerjan, ☺✋ 21:04:39 my ultimate goal for LC is any applications i can find for it in game development 21:04:45 clearly dorfs love lutefisk 21:04:56 by which i don't mean writing games in haskell or scheme 21:05:08 but more generalized applications of it.. anything really 21:05:09 itidus20: That is a very hubristic way to go about it. 21:06:13 for instance, i recently started to think of a scene from a play as a function.. 21:06:37 like suppose you take a shakespeare play and make all the characters names be variables 21:06:39 You are still trying to construct analogies in place of understanding? 21:06:55 You are making this hard for yourself by being stubborn about it. 21:06:56 oh well.. functions exist in parallel to LC 21:07:13 i cant stop making analogies just for LC 21:07:23 :P 21:07:51 in some role playing games the characters name is a variable.. 21:07:53 You could stop making analogies so that you'd start actually understanding. 21:08:10 so the entire game is a function of that 21:09:32 uhh at least where his name is invoked 21:10:48 ok i know how to explain where my head is at 21:11:11 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:11:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:12:11 2007-01-17.txt:23:15:01: rarely 21:12:11 2007-01-19.txt:21:58:04: you rarely depend on overflow 21:12:11 2007-01-19.txt:21:58:19: and in math you rarely have to iterate through memory 21:13:13 http://oi56.tinypic.com/25f254x.jpg 21:14:10 it doesn't have an answer section since its only 1 chapter and i presume actual answers at end of book 21:14:45 if it bothers with answers at all that is 21:16:15 itidus20: well question 1 is probably not very standard, but depends on the precise rules set down in the book 21:16:35 good point yeah 21:16:54 i might have been confused when doing it.. its not a big deal anyway 21:17:53 indeed that's a rather trivial matter of syntax 21:18:19 so i get that taneb's syntax is: λxyz.E == (λx.(λy.(λz.(E)))) 21:18:51 yeah 21:18:58 haha (no its not taneb's syntax god damn it, its a very common syntax!) 21:24:34 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:30:35 -!- sllide has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:32:18 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:34:55 hi 21:35:32 * oerjan looks for the invisible newcomer which elliott is greeting 21:36:55 im 21:36:56 back 21:39:03 -!- sllide has joined. 21:40:04 back from his long travels, he discovered his hometown had gone quiet ... too quiet. 21:40:09 I could be the one 21:40:11 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: FireFly). 21:40:26 oerjan: that reminds me of Faxanadu 21:40:38 the game for Nintendo 8bit 21:40:43 ok 21:40:48 oerjan: yeah can i come to trondheim instead 21:40:59 it's right next to scotland, right? 21:41:07 well you're already used to rain i assume... 21:41:12 oerjan: you live in Trondheim? 21:41:16 quite :D 21:41:16 yes 21:41:21 my friend is somewhere there nearby 21:41:32 your friend is in HELL 21:41:36 and with that, oerjan broke into a run 21:41:40 fii@IRCnet 21:41:59 only finns use IRCnet, right? 21:42:10 i have not seen a single non-finnish person mention it, ever 21:42:12 well I don't really know :) 21:42:14 (hell, norway) 21:42:23 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 21:42:23 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 21:42:24 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 21:42:33 IRCnet is big, I don't think it could consist of Finns solely 21:42:43 IRCnet is the first IRC network 21:42:50 there ever was 21:42:54 depends. how many million people are on IRCnet? 21:42:56 not to my knowledge 21:43:00 < elliott> CakeProphet: You're stupid in the past 21:43:05 elliott: this isn't news to me. 21:43:06 ircnet descends from it 21:43:08 but so does efnet 21:43:18 undernet predates ircnet, even 21:43:21 also I had a heavy Python bias. 21:43:25 I think ircnet just descends from efnet 21:43:28 depends on the definition of sameness, I guess 21:43:32 so I didn't really understand the point of lambdas other than to be used with map. 21:43:38 CakeProphet: but of course, to be news it would have to be in the future 21:43:41 atehwa: well, there can't be more than one server there ever was :) 21:43:44 erm 21:43:46 atehwa: well, there can't be more than one first server there ever was :) 21:43:52 s/server/network/ 21:44:02 the first server was tolsun.oulu.fi 21:44:08 oh. 21:44:20 well, the first network didn't really have a name. 21:44:26 IRC :P 21:44:38 IIRC :P 21:44:48 huh, you're not allowed to run bots on ircnet without permission? weird 21:45:01 no, that's not true... 21:45:04 fungot isn't a bot 21:45:05 CakeProphet: perhaps i should read about contification if you haven't 21:45:11 depends on your server 21:45:16 fungot has feelings like all of us. 21:45:17 CakeProphet: and the equally endless " ha ha crappy microsoft programs" 21:45:19 Keep in mind: IRC is a privilege, not a right 21:45:19 Basic rules: 21:45:19 [...]- No bots! They will be removed from this server without hesitation. 21:45:22 many IRCnet servers have overly strict policies 21:45:24 that's irc.xs4all.nl at least 21:45:36 my source is wikipedia, so maybe it's a totally unrepresentative server :P 21:45:49 "IRCnet mostly consists of Finnish communities." Could someone please verify this? Scoo 17:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC) 21:45:56 well, it's not true: bots abound on IRCnet. 21:45:58 at least one other person in the world thinks so :P 21:46:06 `log finnish 21:46:10 2011-03-18.txt:18:02:56: that's due to my decent knowledge of the finnish gibberish 21:46:17 atehwa: hehe, I'm sure lots of non-permitted stuff abounds on EFnet... doesn't _necessarily_ mean it's ok:P 21:46:32 suomi gibberilainen 21:46:33 I wonder what the largest network is nowadays 21:46:37 I'm sure freenode is up there 21:46:43 well, _everybody_ means every "true" channel on IRCnet has a bot to regulate it 21:46:48 maybe quakenet... wikipedia says quakenet 21:46:50 `log suomi 21:46:54 2006-04-21.txt:00:29:21: "Finland" in Finnish is "Suomi", so I guess it it is something similar 21:47:08 what's typical of IRCnet is that it does not have a central service/bot that you can invite on your channel 21:47:24 s/means/knows/ 21:47:49 yeah, serverlessness is kinda weird 21:47:52 s/server/service/ 21:47:55 I guess it's traditional 21:48:15 the service sucks 21:48:18 yes, it's an oldschool irc network if there ever was one :) 21:48:34 oerjan: yeah I want a refund. 21:51:53 wow, this wikipedia article is really interesting 21:52:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRCnet 21:52:34 but maybe that's just because I'm so interested in how social hierarchy works in the Internet 21:52:39 I like the "with the support of Jarkko Oikarinen" part... IRCNet: God's Chosen Network 21:52:48 oh, hmm, that was EFnet 21:53:01 I wonder if it's even technically possible for freenode to split 21:53:09 as in, permanently 21:53:30 I don't really know much about server linking 21:54:11 I believe you could have a netsplit without a subsequent join, if that's what you mean. 21:54:25 I know that part :P 21:54:30 -!- sllide has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:54:38 I'm just wondering how easy it would be for half of freenode to split off and rename overnight 21:54:51 in IRC, server linking means that the servers share _all_ knowledge about nicks, channels, etc 21:55:32 elliott: sounds on the difficult side to me. 21:55:45 but it would be worth it... 21:55:54 elliott: so what do you think freenode could split off from? 21:56:02 atehwa: no idea :P 21:56:05 irc.esonode.net 21:56:10 CakeProphet: not /us/, server operators 21:56:11 :) 21:56:52 elliott: well, right 21:57:13 but 21:57:18 if they rename us to ##esoteric 21:57:22 we should totally ditch this lame-ass network 21:57:48 humm.... is lambda calc level knowledge on the same level as knowing how to write compilers? 21:58:02 actually, the article about IRCnet is really interesting also in that it states many assumptions about IRC usage that I've taken for granted for a very long time 21:58:03 no 21:58:04 no 21:58:08 lambda calculus is easy 21:58:19 also there aren't levels of knowledge. 21:58:22 so are compilers really, (just not the "traditional" kind), but they're harder than LC 21:58:28 one does not make it easier to do the other, and vice versa. 21:58:35 LC is just a rewrite system 21:58:47 atehwa: hey so are compilers. :P 21:58:49 atehwa: I was raised on freenode, I assume so much :( 21:58:57 where you have first-class rewriting rules, and nothing else 21:59:33 LC isn't much like rewriting rules (it's a rewrite system but not really a rewrite-system /language/) because they can't examine their inputs 21:59:37 like, deconstruct them 21:59:40 apart from applying them, of course 21:59:41 elliott: I assume, for instance, that no one will care if your channel is taken over 22:00:10 haha 22:00:11 ok ok.. maybe i should ask 22:00:24 is lambda calc taught at a bachelor degree level? 22:00:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:00:33 atehwa: I assume that channels can't be taken over, except when freenode staff decide to do it to inactive mainspace channels because your nick dropped because you didn't log in for like a month 22:01:56 i.e. is lambda calc something you study when working on a phd or masters? 22:02:04 lol 22:02:12 lambda calculus is taught in any decent cs course 22:02:30 elliott: wow, talk about secure 22:02:54 atehwa: I think it's actually something like thirty days that your nick can be dropped after 22:02:55 elliott: is it ever taught to a student working towards a bachelor's degree? 22:02:55 or sixty days 22:02:57 it's ridiculous 22:03:01 itidus20: of course 22:03:40 elliott: nick wars still happen occasionally on IRCnet 22:03:49 there's no service to register nicks 22:04:09 nor should there be, probably 22:04:14 atehwa: clearly you just need a bot to spam anyone who steals your nick without giving the password 22:04:38 what password? on IRCnet, there are no passwords 22:04:48 you protect your nick by being always present 22:04:58 atehwa: The password the bot knows, duh. 22:05:09 It's your own private NickServ, except instead of forcibly renaming you, it just tries to be really annoying. 22:05:20 :) 22:05:34 You could just have it join every channel that the nick purloiner joins and after every line, say "THIS PERSON IS A FRAUD. DO NOT LISTEN." 22:05:39 but it would have to be on every channel in order to notice a nick offender. 22:05:59 atehwa: Nah, it'd just /whois every ten seconds. 22:06:08 ... and, on IRCnet, most server won't let you join 20+ channels 22:06:18 and that applies to bots, too. 22:06:26 The different servers on IRCnet have different join limits? :P 22:06:28 elliott: I suppose you mean /ison. 22:06:35 atehwa: there's no whois on ircnet? 22:06:40 Gregor: yup. 22:06:47 you finns are... so primitive :| 22:07:03 elliott: who should the bot do a /whois on? 22:07:23 atehwa: your nick, duh 22:07:30 or does whois require hostname 22:08:18 are you suggesting there should be a bot for _every_ user that wants their nick monitored? 22:08:42 atehwa: obviously 22:08:46 every _real_ channel has a bot 22:08:49 every _real_ user has a bot 22:08:51 botyguards 22:10:08 -!- augur has joined. 22:10:08 on IRCnet, channel bots are common, but user bots.. unheard of 22:10:15 > id runST (return 3) 22:10:17 Couldn't match expected type `m t' 22:10:17 against inferred type `forall s.... 22:10:19 > (id runST) (return 3) 22:10:21 3 22:10:21 because every _real_ user has a screen 22:10:21 elliott: u mad? 22:10:28 atehwa: Well clearly I need to innovate. 22:10:36 shachaf: Augh, what. That's a GHC bug, right? 22:10:46 I know rank-N types do that kind of thing, but... 22:10:48 Surelyn ot. 22:10:55 Yes, surelyn ot. 22:10:59 elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. 22:10:59 On SovietRussiaNet, users manage network services. 22:11:08 shachaf: BUT THOSE SHOULD PARSE IDENTICALLY 22:11:14 The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 22:11:41 shachaf: ;_____; 22:11:43 `addquote elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 22:11:46 662) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 22:12:06 Ugh. 22:12:20 Welcome to the out-of-context quote database! 22:12:22 Enjoy your stay! 22:12:25 shachaf: You've been QUOTED. 22:13:31 `quote tusho 22:13:33 No output. 22:13:39 `quote ehird 22:13:41 19) ehird has gone insane, clearly. \ 24) In an alternate universe, ehird has taste \ 25) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste" \ 26) so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers \ 27) IN EINEM 22:13:54 `pastequotes 22:13:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1312 22:13:56 Now you have all the quotes. 22:13:57 `pastelogs 22:13:59 Also some logs. 22:14:13 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19059 22:14:29 Also, every True Scotsman has a bot. 22:14:36 Phantom_Hoover: Right? 22:14:43 Who's Phantom_Hoover's bot? elliott? 22:14:43 Yes. 22:14:48 To both. 22:15:05 Do we really have over 650 quotes? 22:15:11 Apparently. 22:15:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:15:20 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 22:15:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:15:37 Not all of them are #esoteric 22:16:11 All of the good ones are. 22:16:16 Also all of the ones beyond like quote fifty. 22:16:19 Gregor: I don't like how you liked Python in 2006. 22:17:00 107 < 50 according to elliott 22:17:14 I thought you were hurrying to school. 22:17:29 I'm done hurrying to school 22:17:45 Hurry some more. 22:17:50 I'm fairly certain I didn't know Python in 2006. 22:18:10 Gregor: You did. 22:18:14 * Sgeo is listening to the professor drone about HTM 22:18:15 HTML 22:18:16 It was your "preferred non-web scripting language". 22:18:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:18:28 I suppose that's a distinct possibility :P 22:18:29 http://eris.berkeley.edu/ hahaha 22:18:37 I have since discovered that Python is extremely terrible. 22:18:45 2011-09-13.txt:22:18:16: It was your "preferred non-web scripting language". 22:18:49 That does not help my tab recovery, HackEgo. 22:18:53 `log preferred non-web 22:18:54 2011-09-13.txt:22:18:45: 2011-09-13.txt:22:18:16: It was your "preferred non-web scripting language". 22:18:54 Dude. 22:19:04 :P 22:19:13 You SURE you don't want to filter HackEgo? :P 22:19:16 2006-04-22.txt:06:13:58: That being said, I now have a non-web scripting language of preference, which is good because perl is amazingly bad. 22:19:23 -!- DH____ has joined. 22:19:35 06:09:58: i like python 22:19:35 06:12:53: lament: DAMN YOU AND YOUR GOOD PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 22:19:35 06:13:58: That being said, I now have a non-web scripting language of preference, which is good because perl is amazingly bad. 22:19:35 06:14:22: heh 22:19:35 06:15:04: I still don't enjoy the whole no-block-ending-keyword thing, but I'm learning to grok that, and it's a small price to pay. 22:19:37 06:15:59: don't worry, you'll enjoy it soon enough. 22:19:39 06:16:08: it's really way better than any other way. 22:19:41 06:17:28: I just don't like that you can end multiple blocks in one swift move, especially since it can sometimes be unclear exactly what block you just dropped to >_> 22:19:44 PROOF 22:19:59 Tastes change *shrugs* 22:20:04 `log stupid 22:20:06 Um no sorry you are Bad Forever. 22:20:08 2011-01-28.txt:23:27:51: elliott: you would be stupid to do that. you can create fenced off areas indoors. 22:20:29 am i bad forever 22:20:41 Sgeo: yes. 22:21:55 elliott: also you're not allowed to read logs of me with that nickname. :P 22:22:07 CakeProphet: Whyn't 22:22:11 I really need to slog through the entire Kernel report sometime. 22:22:13 because I was young and naive. 22:22:22 `log Sgeo 22:22:24 totally different from now. 22:22:27 2010-08-28.txt:22:43:01: Anything with "Taxi" in the name should be an interpreter for Taxi 22:22:30 CakeProphet: now you're old and naive. 22:22:41 `log Oegs 22:22:42 makes a huge difference. 22:22:45 2009-08-03.txt:19:06:11: \ I'm the one who created this project. Known as Sgeo almost everywhere I'm known, one place as Oegs, and one place as Sgeo2. 22:23:43 elliott: old and less naive for sure. 22:24:00 consider that I now know that lambdas and list comprehensions do not do the same things. :P 22:24:11 see how far I've come? 22:24:44 ok thinking again 22:24:54 itidus20: that's never good. 22:24:58 `log thinking 22:25:02 2009-09-20.txt:15:44:23: ehird, ooh nice, but I was thinking more along the lines of rougelike in 3D 22:25:19 itidus20: I try to block out all thinking as much as possible. 22:25:27 so i could potentially invent my own notation such as: "λx." = "X" 22:25:28 and.. 22:25:31 therefore 22:25:45 "λx.x" = "Xx" 22:25:49 uh, sure 22:26:03 that's how notation works, yep. 22:26:15 itidus20: please google "wadler's law" 22:26:33 "λf.λx.f (f x)" = "FXf(fx)" 22:26:50 oerjan: hahaha 22:27:08 i know that capital letter has another use in LC but just saying 22:28:58 I have a notation whereby x is a function that solves the halting problem for all inputs. 22:29:04 x 22:29:14 man that sure was fun. 22:29:19 so with what i am saying here can all LC expressions be expressed by the alphabet and parentheses? 22:30:14 assuming a maximum of 26 variables of course 22:30:15 I like how you can tell when oerjan gives up. 22:30:28 ok wadlers law 22:31:06 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:31:07 itidus20: trivially so 22:31:37 elliott: ah but i am trying to determine which parts of LC can flex and bend without making any difference 22:32:00 itidus20: before you actually understand it? ok 22:32:06 i am sure itw ill help 22:32:06 a second syntax i thought of was using coloured blocks to represent expressions 22:32:13 ... 22:32:19 pretty 22:32:19 well there is nothing outside of the expressions 22:32:21 itidus20: ooh, google "alligator eggs" 22:32:33 http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/ 22:32:34 googled for you 22:32:55 elliott: fastest googler in the west. 22:32:56 already seen the alligator eggs and the bird calls at an earlier stage... 22:33:17 CakeProphet: Technically I used DDG. 22:33:27 elliott: what? ...what? 22:33:31 how could you do such a thing? 22:33:39 i couldn't make sense of the bird calls though 22:33:43 too many lines 22:34:05 CakeProphet: What. 22:34:20 elliott: if you google "furry strapon girls" and then use duckduckgo to search for "furry strapon girls" 22:34:26 you will see a distinct difference in the number of hits. 22:34:27 elliott: it's ok, ducks lay eggs too 22:34:37 CakeProphet: I'm sure the former results are mostly junk 22:34:44 seeing as Gregor was the first person to say that 22:34:47 well 22:34:49 TO MY KNOWLEDGE 22:34:52 elliott: but more representative of what you might find on the internet. 22:35:04 I don't care what the internet has, I care about useful results 22:35:17 In my trial, I found that DDG provided more useful results to me than Google on average 22:35:23 first hit: "furry strapon images" 22:35:26 wasn't that helpful? 22:35:29 If I was the first person to say that, then my life is sad. 22:35:31 I also preferred the UI and don't trust Google much, so I decided to switch to DDG 22:35:33 you got exactly what you looked for. 22:35:39 As furry strapon girls are the solution to nearly every problem. 22:36:25 just like.. in arithmetic the main thing is i have to arrange numbers and operators.. and then i can rewrite them and gradually arrive at a single number.. unless there are variables in the arithmetic expression 22:36:29 Gregor: and DDG is highly lacking in this realm. 22:36:31 shame. 22:36:39 which will mean i arrive at numbers and varables 22:37:08 itidus20: only numbers and variables? x 12 45 y is not valid I think. 22:37:15 surely you also have operators. 22:37:23 hmmm 22:37:28 ok also operators 22:37:48 and.. i can always take an operator and combine 2 arithmetic expressions 22:38:26 so a variable tends to imply part of an expression which is rewritable 22:38:38 all parts of an algebraic expression are rewritable. 22:38:40 oerjan: having fun? 22:38:45 not just variables. 22:39:04 hummm 22:39:06 ok ok 22:39:12 x + y = z + a 22:39:24 now those expressions are interchangeable. 22:39:26 along with others. 22:39:48 the operators are defined in such a way that you can always take any expression1 and rewrite it into: expression1 + expression2 22:39:52 but I'm not really sure what the point of this topic is. 22:40:07 itidus20: what? 22:40:13 in algebra that is the case 22:40:17 uh, no? 22:40:49 rewrite x*y as expression1 + expression2 22:40:56 expression1 + e^(i*pi) + 1 22:40:57 ...oh wait 22:40:58 lol 22:40:59 wjehriuwheuthwryg 22:41:01 x*y + expression2 22:41:17 i just worded it badly cos im not a mathematician >.< 22:41:17 oerjan: counterexample plz 22:41:33 ^ (x*y) + expression2 22:41:42 CakeProphet: it's rather hard to give a counterexample to something that is technically true. 22:42:08 ...oh. 22:42:11 yeah. nevermind. :P 22:42:15 for any expression1, you can have something like expression1 + expression2,.. you can do some kind of: (x*y) + expression2 22:42:30 I have two, which can also be 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 22:42:34 i lose control of my english grammar at such times 22:42:50 oh yes.. expression + 0 = expressin 22:42:59 profound. 22:43:03 oh yes.. expression * 1 = expression 22:43:23 it's called having an identity element 22:43:26 (sorry didn't mean to retype oh yes) expression / expression = expression 22:43:32 ....... 22:43:33 Gregor: Hey, can you stop all thirty-two bit machines from existing? 22:43:38 itidus20: N... 22:43:39 itidus20: yep, that's how division works. 22:43:39 No... 22:43:40 expression - 0 = expression 22:43:40 don't let them 22:43:43 mind you, you _can_ define operators which don't have any 22:43:46 don't let them try to convince you otherwise. 22:43:50 they're lying. 22:43:52 Bahaha, "Take Penfold, he could be useful as a sacrifice." 22:44:11 `run uname -a | sed 's/^/elliott: PROBLEM SOLVED. /' 22:44:13 elliott: PROBLEM SOLVED. Linux (none) 3.0.1-umlbox #5 Fri Aug 19 13:17:44 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux 22:44:29 Gregor: Thanks. Also are you watching Dangermouse. 22:44:33 itidus20 is kind of the algebras. 22:44:34 Is that because Taneb mentioned Dangermouse. 22:44:41 Dangermouse is quality British culture. 22:44:43 s/kind/king/ 22:44:53 elliott: i realise that is algebra and not LC which i am typing 22:44:54 elliott: No, I was watching Danger Mouse /when/ Taneb mentioned it. 22:45:00 elliott: And am still watching it. 22:45:01 itidus20: no, x/x is not the same thing as x. 22:45:03 what's 9/9 22:45:06 Gregor: keep doing that 22:45:10 elliott: 9! 22:45:16 oops 22:45:19 i got confused then 22:45:23 itidus20, what is x/x 22:45:28 expression / 1 = expression :P sorry 22:45:34 If you say "1" I'll punch you :P 22:46:07 well, now that x/x != x 22:46:12 there is nothing esoteric about this topic. 22:46:25 elliott: The thing I don't get is ... was this ever a kids show? It was presented to me as such, but as far as I can tell, no kid would get it :P 22:46:31 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 22:46:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:47:06 Gregor: Dude, we have smart kids in britain. 22:47:21 I watched Danger Mouse as a kid, at least :P 22:47:47 Oh. 22:47:51 What. 22:47:52 'cuz we have stupid kids in the USA. 22:47:56 Yes. 22:47:57 expression = 0... expression/expression = 1? 22:47:58 :P 22:48:08 And cartoons are just an alternative to ritalin. 22:48:10 Gregor: Have you watched Top Cat -- wait you're American of course you've seen the entire Hanna-Barbera output. 22:48:16 (Hanna-Barbera: So bad?) 22:48:19 itidus20: You need the hospital's rule. 22:48:20 no time for me to stfu 22:48:31 ^no. time for me to stfu 22:49:13 Gregor: does the hospital's rule involve you punching someone? 22:49:31 l'hopital 22:49:35 according to wiki 22:49:39 -_- 22:50:01 chances of me comprehending < chances of elliott winning the lottery this week ... :D 22:50:14 A good self-fulfilling prophecy. 22:50:30 I am a self-fulfilling prophet. 22:50:34 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:50:41 elliott: do you think i should study hospital's rule? 22:50:52 itidus20: you need to... focus. :P 22:50:56 on one thing 22:50:57 and learn that 22:50:57 -!- elliott has joined. 22:50:59 hang on.. zero over zero 22:51:14 and not jump from lambda calculus to basic algebra to regular calculus. 22:51:15 elliott: i thought you were doing an ais-style quit there 22:51:27 and not understand any of them very well. 22:51:28 oerjan: no, i was restarting X. 22:51:29 maybe i was onto something there.. hahaha.. 22:51:36 oerjan: it's rage_/parts_ that ais does, not /quits. 22:51:48 * CakeProphet has exactly one rage part. 22:51:56 `log hospital 22:51:59 2011-08-02.txt:21:01:29: "Heatwave bone breaks clog hospital." 22:52:04 `log hospital 22:52:08 2011-01-31.txt:02:39:52: What surprises some observers, including advice columnist Ann Landers, is the extent to which people hold strong opinions on such a trivial topic. Defenders of either position cite advantages ranging from aesthetics, hospitality, and cleanliness; to paper conservation and the ease of detaching 22:52:18 hehehe 22:52:19 `log l'hopital 22:52:22 2011-09-13.txt:22:52:19: `log l'hopital 22:52:26 `log l'hopital 22:52:30 2010-03-12.txt:16:18:45: AnMaster, it's just exploring the convergence/divergence of sequences of real numbers, then series (running totals of sequences), then lim & integrability - the big theorem from it is l'hopital 22:53:19 `log `log 22:53:22 2011-09-13.txt:17:35:40: 2011-09-13.txt:17:35:26: `log `log 22:53:23 anmaster gets it now 22:53:35 `log `log log 22:53:38 2011-09-13.txt:18:33:30: `log log 22:53:40 >_< 22:53:52 `log log log 22:53:55 2010-09-17.txt:13:05:54: since clog logs doesn't include anything but nick 22:54:05 :) 22:54:07 Hm 22:54:12 I have "OH GOD NOOOOOOOO" on my clipboard. 22:54:16 And no idea why. 22:54:29 someone is trapped in your clipboard 22:54:30 Gregor: It's your OS. 22:54:32 `log `log `log log 22:54:34 Gregor: It wants to be @. 22:54:36 2011-09-13.txt:22:53:35: `log `log log 22:54:50 a nice easter egg for someone to find oneday perhaps 22:55:08 `log dick nipples 22:55:11 2011-09-13.txt:22:55:08: `log dick nipples 22:55:24 `log PSOX 22:55:25 a nice easter egg for someone to find. 22:55:28 2007-12-30.txt:21:30:38: * Sgeo considers PSOX.py to be a bit of a project 22:55:37 `log PSOX 22:55:38 `log PSOX sucks 22:55:41 2009-05-30.txt:01:52:52: goonx: It's kinda impoſsible, aſide from PSOX. 22:55:42 2007-09-10.txt:17:10:09: PSOX stands for "PSOX Sucks Other's Xenophobia" 22:55:49 `log stardate 22:55:53 2008-12-22.txt:05:59:12: Oh, that sound of male ego. You travel halfway across the galaxy and it's still the same song...-- Eve McHuron, "Mudd's Women", stardate 1330.1 22:55:57 elliott: By the way, you've better have watched Rocky and Bullwinkle *evil eye* 22:56:03 `logurl 2008-12-22.txt:05:59:12: 22:56:04 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2008-12-22 22:56:08 Gregor: >__________________________________________---__> i think i saw it once?????????////////// 22:56:16 look ok usa cartoons are just not as good as uk cartoons 22:56:41 Rocky and Bullwinkle is better than EVERYTHING 22:56:42 Avatar: The Last Airbender isn't good? 22:56:48 elliott: typical UK mind virus dronespeak 22:56:53 all US things are superior to UK things. 22:57:05 `log turtle 22:57:08 2011-02-11.txt:15:24:34: !bfjoust raping_turtle < 22:58:01 i was thinking of ninja turtles but, the comic was american, the animation was japanese 22:58:05 !bfjoust hi -*100000 22:58:08 -!- nooga has joined. 22:58:09 ITT: read things that were said in the past instead of talking in the present. 22:58:10 o.o 22:58:14 ​Score for Lymee_hi: 8.1 22:58:15 * Lymee hugs tiffany ^^ 22:58:21 * tiffany hugs lymee ^_^ 22:58:46 * Gregor expands the vertical smiley ^__^ 22:59:01 what's ITT again 22:59:18 Is that a bot. 22:59:28 in this thread 22:59:31 or topic, I guess. 23:00:31 oerjan: an excellent way to make meta-observations about a conversation. 23:00:58 ITT: excellent meta-observations 23:01:01 some day i hope someone makes a calculus of notations 23:01:33 but you don't really know what that means. 23:02:09 there are almost surely several possible meanings of that phrase for which someone already did 23:02:17 the problem i need to solve is to increase my personal understanding of all existant notations while not negating the benefits of that feat 23:02:37 !bfjoust bye +*100000 23:02:37 BNF comes to mind 23:02:39 notations aren't even really that interesting. 23:02:40 ​Score for Lymee_bye: 8.1 23:02:50 !bfjoust hi -*128 23:02:53 ​Score for Lymee_hi: 8.1 23:02:58 !bfjoust bye [+] 23:03:01 ​Score for Lymee_bye: 15.4 23:03:05 wat 23:03:12 !bfjoust hi [-] 23:03:16 ​Score for Lymee_hi: 15.4 23:03:17 how does that 23:04:08 itidus20: you want to know the metalevel before the base level? 23:04:18 deconstructing notation will not help you learn anything. 23:04:24 it is an excuse. 23:04:32 im good at excuses 23:04:37 indeed. 23:04:42 !bfjoust a_dozen_tits_many_success (.)*12[+] 23:04:48 !bfjoust a_dozen_tits_many_success (.)*12[+] 23:04:52 ​Score for CakeProphet_a_dozen_tits_many_success: 15.4 23:05:06 let me formalize that now 23:05:16 >_> 23:05:51 the part of my psyche which is being passive aggressive is good at excuses 23:05:55 itidus20 is playing with toys. 23:06:10 * CakeProphet <--- expert psychologist 23:06:35 it is not for me to identify with my passive aggression.. to glamourize it 23:06:44 although i do anyway 23:07:09 !bfjoust a_dozen_pairs_of_tits_many_success (.)*24[+] 23:07:12 ​Score for CakeProphet_a_dozen_pairs_of_tits_many_success: 15.4 23:07:17 so that is the error in "im good at excuses" 23:08:19 !bfjoust not-so-perverted successes .*23[+] 23:08:22 ​Score for Lymee_not-so-perverted: 15.6 23:08:25 its probably even worse to try to de-identify with it... thats a cultish thing to do 23:08:28 !bfjoust not_so_perverted_successes .*23[+] 23:08:32 ​Score for Lymee_not_so_perverted_successes: 15.6 23:08:51 -!- CakeProphet has set topic: Freudian armchair psycho-babble | It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | god bless haskell america | 12345678!& | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 23:09:04 Gregor: How does Fythe do parsing, again 23:09:07 is .*23 actually recognized 23:09:15 probably not 23:09:42 elliott: Quite well, thank you. 23:09:49 Gregor: Not helpful 23:09:59 elliott: It's a memoized recursive descent parser (AKA a ratpack parser) 23:09:59 !bfjoust test0 >*2< 23:10:02 ​Score for Lymee_test0: 6.8 23:10:05 Erm 23:10:08 Err ... packrat 23:10:11 !bfjoust test0 ><*2 23:10:14 ​Score for Lymee_test0: 6.8 23:10:16 !bfjoust test1 >< 23:10:19 ​Score for Lymee_test1: 6.8 23:10:24 !bfjoust test2 >(<)*2 23:10:27 ​Score for Lymee_test2: 0.0 23:10:28 -!- oerjan has set topic: Freudian armchair psycho-babble | It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | god bless haskell america | 12345678!& | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 23:10:29 Nope! 23:10:31 >< = "grrr" 23:10:32 Gregor: Right, so PEGs. 23:10:41 the infamous grr strategy. 23:10:41 Gregor: Isn't packrat parsing kinda slow? :P 23:10:41 Yes 23:10:45 No 23:10:48 !bfjoust not-so-pervertedly-named-successes (.)*23[+] 23:10:50 I thought it was. 23:10:52 ​Score for Lymee_not-so-pervertedly-named-successes: 15.2 23:10:52 It's O(n) 23:11:07 The step could be really expensive :P 23:11:11 oerjan: what is different in that one? 23:11:30 Apparently there's already a PEG parser for Haskell but I BET IT SUCKS. 23:11:32 elliott: If you have an enormously-ambiguous grammar, it can be memory-expensive. 23:11:51 CakeProphet: less horribly evil spacing 23:11:58 Otherwise, it's roughly the same speed as recursive descent parsing, but with a better worst-case. 23:12:29 !fyb plzreport +! 23:12:40 Gregor: Right. I'm just tired of not being able to write left-recursive grammars :) 23:12:46 ​Score for Lymee_plzreport: 23.1 23:13:01 elliott: Fythe supports left recursion with a simple transformation. 23:13:07 I thought PEGs did in general. 23:13:12 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:13:17 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:13:32 I wonder if I can get left-recursion working without observable sharing... (oerjan?) 23:13:48 I'd have to try and look for the /RHS/ of any e.g. sequencing operator, as well as trying to see if the LHS will parse... 23:14:03 elliott: Sort of a definitional thing ... 23:14:05 Then see if the string up to there is a valid LHS, and so on, until there's no more RHSs left in the string 23:14:06 eek 23:14:06 At least I think so. 23:14:16 Obviously it's a lot SIMPLER with observable sharing :P 23:14:27 And I bet Gregor has no idea what I'm talking about because he doesn't know what observable sharing is, and so thinks I'm a total kook. 23:14:28 THEM HASKELLERS 23:14:59 haskellers can be observed to share 23:15:14 Lies 23:15:27 Gregor: DO you know what observable sharing is? :-P 23:15:34 Lies 23:15:49 Gregor: That's a weird way of saying no X-D 23:16:07 I would assume that it's a situation where, for efficiency sake, two immutable objects are referentially identical, and that fact is not supposed to be observable, but is 23:16:16 Sort of. 23:16:23 (Two properly equal immutable objects of course) 23:16:25 It basically means you can extract the graph out of "x = f x y". 23:16:36 Normally, you can't tell that the first parameter to x is shared with the object itself. 23:16:48 But with some unsafeness (which you can wrap around), you can obviously tell it is. 23:16:51 By storing a unique identifier with x. 23:16:58 (There's other ways to do it too, but that's the most common._ 23:16:59 ) 23:17:08 Basically it's reifying the graph of pointers from an object :P 23:17:21 elliott: bad idea: recurse on the length of how much you're allowed to match 23:17:23 So obviously you can do left-recursion if you have it, because you can tell that 23:17:26 x = x, 'a' 23:17:30 is left-recursive. 23:17:44 Whereas if you don't do observable sharing, you just have to look at the right argument before you go recursing leftwards :P 23:17:46 Or do both at once, or whatever. 23:18:18 that may have issues with empty strings matching non-terminals though 23:18:29 oerjan: Eh? 23:18:35 Erm, I mean 23:18:40 x = '' | x, 'a' 23:18:44 Which is obviously just a+. 23:19:29 elliott: if when you match that second x, it is not allowed to match as long a string as the whole... 23:19:58 oerjan: The idea is to look for an "a" somewhere in the string, then see if the string /before/ that a matches "x". If so, then it's a match. If not, then you look for the /next/ "a", and see if the string before that matches x. 23:20:10 And so on, until there are no more "a"s in the string; then you know it doesn't parse. 23:20:45 I think if you do that in parallel (deterministic parallelism, obviously) with seeing if there's an x at the start, and then going on to 'a', means that you can parse both left- and right- recursive grammars. 23:20:47 Not sure though. 23:21:57 And then oerjan stopped listening to me :P 23:22:07 i wasn't talking about your idea anyhow 23:22:22 Well, I didn't understand what you were criticising. 23:22:30 myself 23:22:38 xD 23:22:46 -_;;; 23:22:56 ;_____________; 23:22:59 i just thought of a bad idea for left-recursing without observable sharing 23:23:11 what was the idea? just out of curiosity 23:23:23 Gregor: By O(n), you meant in the length of the input string, right? 23:23:46 Of course 23:23:48 bad idea means "idea which is so good that merely calling it good would not express the magnitude of it's goodness" 23:23:50 to include a parameter for how long a string you're allowed to match, which must be decremented when recursing 23:24:17 oerjan: ah 23:24:23 oerjan: what was the problem with that? 23:24:45 * elliott wonders if PEGs are monadic or just applicative... 23:25:26 Gregor: Do PEGs have a|b = b|a? I really should know more about them :/ 23:25:45 if one nonterminal can consist entirely of another, then it's not safe to decrement 23:25:48 elliott: They don't. 23:25:54 Gregor: :'( 23:25:57 Gregor: Why not? 23:26:10 elliott: Because if you implement that, it's more than O(n) :) 23:26:14 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:26:25 (In memory, not time) 23:26:35 Gregor: Are you suuuure? :( 23:26:45 No way around that? :P 23:27:05 Nothing comes to mind. 23:27:20 Gregor: You could deterministically rearrange all alternatives before parsing :P 23:27:41 elliott: That doesn't help if it's properly ambiguous. 23:27:59 Like whaddya mean? 23:28:50 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 23:28:52 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:30:45 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:31:24 elliott: If there exists a nonterminal in your grammar which can correctly parse two different lengths of input, but then only one will be selected as correct by a parser higher in the hierarchy, there's no way to guess which to choose. 23:33:03 Gregor: Why are ambiguous grammars even accepted >_> 23:33:31 "The fundamental difference between context-free grammars and parsing expression grammars is that the PEG's choice operator is ordered. If the first alternative succeeds, the second alternative is ignored. Thus ordered choice is not commutative, unlike unordered choice as in context-free grammars and regular expressions. Ordered choice is analogous to soft cut operators available in some logic programming languages." 23:33:32 Bah :P 23:33:38 Can we just do all parsing with Prolog? 23:33:47 determining whether a grammar is ambiguous is undecidable 23:33:53 oerjan: Oh right :P 23:34:04 oerjan: I knew that, it just didn't occur to me >_> 23:34:21 "Compared to pure regular expressions (i.e. without back-references), PEGs are strictly more powerful, but require significantly more memory. For example, a regular expression inherently cannot find an arbitrary number of matched pairs of parentheses, because it is not recursive, but a PEG can. However, a PEG will require an amount of memory proportional to the length of the input, while a regular expression matcher will require only a constant a 23:34:22 mount of memory." 23:34:30 Hmm 23:34:40 What's the memory usage of an LR(one) parser anyway 23:34:55 I am so un-clued-up-on wrt parsers :| 23:34:56 Lower than a PEG :P 23:35:30 If you have a PEG parser that produces an infinite list, can you GC the memory if you keep taking the tail of that list? 23:35:32 Like... 23:35:35 elliott: I wonder how much memory a regex that parses matches parens uses. 23:35:39 Can you match 'a'+ to an infinite list of as 23:35:39 compared to a PEG. 23:35:44 *matched 23:35:45 CakeProphet: No regex can do that. 23:35:50 Can you match 'a'+ to an infinite list of as 23:35:52 With constant memory 23:35:53 LR(one) parsers are deterministic PDAs 23:35:56 Because you keep discarding the parses 23:35:56 elliott: Perl regexes can... 23:35:57 Maybe??? 23:35:58 Gregor??? 23:36:02 CakeProphet: Perl regexps are not regular expressions. 23:36:10 They, therefore, have none of the parsing guarantees regexps do. 23:36:10 elliott: ...that's why I said regex. 23:36:18 CakeProphet: Well, the answer is bad. 23:36:22 Perl's algorithm is very exponential. 23:36:23 elliott: Not in the conventional definition. 23:36:32 i don't think they can grow the stack more than no. of characters 23:36:35 Gregor: Laziness isn't in the conventional definition :P 23:38:06 I know that Frisby (Haskell PEG parser) is composable... "Unlike other parsers of PEG grammars, frisby need not be supplied with all possible rules up front, allowing composition of smaller parsers." 23:38:16 But I don't wanna use it or look at it because NYEH PRIOR ART DOESN'T EXIST 23:38:44 "Although memory consumption is linear in the size of the input, the constant factor is very large. 23:38:45 frisby attempts to address both these concerns." 23:38:46 PAH 23:38:52 Gregor: How large is the constant for Fythe btw :P 23:39:19 "frisby attempts to be lazy in reading the results of parsers, parsers tend to work via sending out 'feeler' predicates to get an idea of what the rest of the file looks like before deciding what pass to take, frisby attempts to optimize these feeler predicates via extra lazyness such that they do not cause the actual computation of the results, but rather just compute enough to determine whether a predicate would have succeeded or not. 23:39:19 (It is interesting to note that the memory efficiency of frisby depends vitally on being as lazy as possible, in contrast to traditional thoughts when it comes to memory consumption)" 23:39:21 IT'S LIKE MAGIC.............. 23:39:24 elliott: Small enough that the parser has never been more than a spec in any profile of Fythe. 23:39:27 *speck 23:39:35 The transform engine, on the other hand .... 23:39:58 Gregor: I take it Fythe solves the "Unlike other parsers of PEG grammars, frisby need not be supplied with all possible rules up front, allowing composition of smaller parsers." part 23:40:22 I don't understand why that would be an issue for any PEG parser :P 23:40:51 Gregor: "Traditionally, PEG parsers have suffered from two major flaws: 23:40:51 A global table of all productions must be generated or written by hand, disallowing composable parsers implemented as libraries and in general requiring the use of a parser generator tool like pappy" 23:40:54 It doesn't go into any more depth :P 23:41:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 23:41:24 I have a global table of productions ... which is mutable ... 23:42:20 Right, which is distinctly not composable :P 23:42:32 but does allow rules to not be given up front. 23:42:36 *all possible rules 23:43:40 The parsers can be defined as functions. 23:45:06 Gregor: Doesn't mean it's composable 23:45:17 baaaawwww 23:45:20 :P 23:45:38 Sorry, I won't state facts in future if it upsets you 23:46:14 I get very upset when things don't compose. :( 23:50:35 ::= | () | (λ.) 23:50:47 additive = mdo 23:50:48 additive <- newRule $ multitive <> char '+' ->> additive ## uncurry (+) // multitive 23:50:48 multitive <- newRule $ primary <> char '*' ->> multitive ## uncurry (*) // primary 23:50:48 primary <- newRule $ char '(' ->> additive <<- char ')' // decimal 23:50:48 decimal <- newRule $ many1 (oneOf ['0' .. '9']) ## read 23:50:50 return additive 23:50:52 this is awfully ugly 23:50:58 ._. 23:51:10 Gregor: So, what's the hot new thing in parsers these days that isn't PEG :P 23:51:33 human sweatshops; 23:53:01 ::= 'a' | 'b' | 'c' | 'd' | 'e' | 'f' | 'g' | 'h' | 'i' | 'j' | 'k' | 'l' | 'm' | 'n' | 'o' | 'p' | 'q' | 'r' | 's' | 't' | 'u' | 'v' | 'w' | 'x' | 'y' | 'z' 23:53:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 23:53:57 ::= | '('')' | '(' 'λ''.'')' 23:54:53 itidus20: that forces parens 23:54:59 yup 23:55:01 you can just have a '('')' rule 23:55:11 and then have not-forced parens. 23:55:13 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:55:25 humm 23:55:39 humm 23:56:28 CakeProphet: but then it becomes ambiguous unless you fix it more 23:56:35 monqy: WHAT'S THE HOT NEW THING IN PARSING 23:56:45 elliott: i dunno ;_; 23:56:49 furry strapon parsers. 23:56:54 ::= | '('')' | | 'λ''.' 23:57:09 Gregor: Detail to me the furry strapon parser algorithm 23:57:47 monqy: is that ambiguous? 23:57:52 CakeProphet: yes!! 23:58:01 how so? 23:58:06 ....oh wait 23:58:09 perhaps. I see. 23:58:27 consider the case of, say, yλx.xy 23:59:01 or even just λx.xx I guess 23:59:13 ah 23:59:15 yeah 23:59:46 I should probably Read The Literature on parsers. 23:59:57 elliott: RTFL