< 1316476977 169706 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-248.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1316476991 188940 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316477086 683323 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316477163 831328 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat wikipedia loaded < 1316477211 114475 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it really is random < 1316477250 642278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::17: trailing whitespace. < 1316477250 821024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1316477250 839484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: 1 line adds whitespace errors. < 1316477252 385631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: help < 1316477280 526104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1316477469 486367 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i can read about cheerful things like rhabdomyolysis < 1316478881 454118 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316479175 761467 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1316479459 442549 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316479736 423872 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316479953 745605 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316479992 59677 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@81-233-163-248-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1316480202 441583 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1316480466 226591 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1316481189 48846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316481223 194582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1316481274 148747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316481275 720812 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316481383 776968 :ive!~nn@189.179.246.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316482303 970762 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316482315 480696 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316483022 153903 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, the hack to make the Zune give up its Zune UI and expose the underlying Windows CE UI works. < 1316483030 811667 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1316483064 86464 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whereas the Zune UI makes one think "I want to kill myself", the Windows CE UI makes one think "I want to kill myself, but first kill my parents as punishment for bringing into this world someone who would one day own a Windows CE device." < 1316483079 452998 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote But whereas the Zune UI makes one think "I want to kill myself", the Windows CE UI makes one think "I want to kill myself, but first kill my parents as punishment for bringing into this world someone who would one day own a Windows CE device." < 1316483081 735873 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :673) But whereas the Zune UI makes one think "I want to kill myself", the Windows CE UI makes one think "I want to kill myself, but first kill my parents as punishment for bringing into this world someone who would one day own a Windows CE device." < 1316483113 337243 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which CE UI? < 1316483125 293479 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 6.0 < 1316483154 479097 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Whatever that means, I have no idea what the giant compendium of names for CE all mean) < 1316483161 572221 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It claims to be "Windows CE 6.0" < 1316483241 335172 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it basically looks like Windows 95, except then somebody decided to move all the buttons into the stupidest possible position. < 1316483256 734437 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, something like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Wince50.PNG < 1316483294 626820 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks a bit more ... Idonno, something than that, but not much. < 1316483305 452498 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's CE 5. < 1316483306 328498 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the systray is embossed, and the start menu actually says "start" < 1316483391 896926 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Upon further investigation, it seems that they never bothered to make any changes to the "explorer" UI for Windows CE 6, since all of their CE 6 devices don't use it. < 1316483406 785210 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So although it's slightly different from that screenshot, it's not much. < 1316483427 379785 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also Pocket PC, Windows Mobile, and Windows Phone UIs for the damned OS. < 1316483440 538854 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft seems to love fucking with the UI. < 1316483454 796128 :tiffany!~tiffany@188.215.83.116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. all of these are based on the same "micro"kernel? < 1316483457 698820 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Windows Mobile 6 is based on Windows CE 5 (logic) < 1316483467 969093 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiffany: Yes, it's all CE. < 1316483472 111331 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Phone 7 is based on Windows CE 6 (more logic) < 1316483492 615196 :tiffany!~tiffany@188.215.83.116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(100mb of overhead isn't really too micro... :/) < 1316483510 812468 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, CE doesn't even claim to be a microkernel. < 1316483517 104595 :tiffany!~tiffany@188.215.83.116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1316483527 66079 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, what this gives me the ability to do is program for the Zune with GCC. < 1316483534 686638 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bootloader, here I (don't) come! < 1316483539 408216 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the overhead of CE is ~1 meg. Everything else on it, not so much. < 1316483820 430735 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think I've discovered a link between hammerspace and hammertime. < 1316483827 700895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 4-dimensional hammerspace-time continuum. < 1316483852 854692 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1316484166 832548 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooah < 1316484706 311752 :variable!~root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1316484709 877459 :invariable!~root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1316485075 655322 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316485192 459427 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zip (1:2:undefined) [3,4] < 1316485193 322190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,3),(2,4)*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1316485201 380973 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zip [3,4] (1:2:undefined) < 1316485202 63049 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(3,1),(4,2)] < 1316485294 335315 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?check \f xs ys -> zipWith f xs ys == liftM2 f xs ys < 1316485294 848547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> b -> c) < 1316485294 866608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use... < 1316485307 768069 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?check \xs ys -> zipWith (/) xs ys == liftM2 (/) xs ys < 1316485308 282541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Falsifiable, after 2 tests:\n[2.25]\n[-1.2,-1.0]\n" < 1316485310 845516 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1316485318 368119 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> liftM2 f [a,b,c] [x,y,z] < 1316485319 223655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence `a' < 1316485319 401550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either `L.a', defined at _< < 1316485326 278300 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> liftM2 f [L.a,b,c] [x,y,z] :: [Expr] < 1316485327 130246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `b -> ()' < 1316485327 301247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Simpl... < 1316485333 249974 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1316485340 778381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1316485358 423046 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: erm it's lame that the [] monad isn't the ZipList monad? < 1316485382 38208 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES. < 1316485398 451071 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking. < 1316485427 724316 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?check zipWith === liftM2 < 1316485428 231200 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `===' < 1316485429 597848 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you're still sure that ZipList is a monad? :P < 1316485444 181571 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen a proof that it isn't :P < 1316485579 678972 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) ["abc", "defg", "hij", "klmno", "pqrs"] < 1316485580 535435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["abc","def","hij","klm","pqr"] < 1316485602 672694 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... why would the zip < 1316485608 764761 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :list have a different bind than a regular list? < 1316485625 421720 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because it has a different Applicative < 1316485628 874676 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're basically the same type, with the same functor. < 1316485638 687104 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... I didn't realize that would change the monad. < 1316485650 863323 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ap < 1316485651 37947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap = liftM2 id < 1316485677 25481 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Applicative is given by the Monad, conceptually < 1316485804 469772 :invariable!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1316485876 395241 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl ZipList fs <*> ZipList xs = ZipList (zipWith id fs xs) < 1316485876 571844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 27): < 1316485876 740654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "=" < 1316485876 907857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", "`", "!!", ".", operator or end of input < 1316485937 146600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\fs xs -> ZipList (zipWith id (getZipList fs) (get ZipList xs)) < 1316485937 315957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 65): < 1316485937 486441 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected end of input < 1316485937 504914 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or ")" < 1316485941 979073 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\fs xs -> ZipList (zipWith id (getZipList fs) (get ZipList xs))) < 1316485942 144051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ZipList .) . (. get ZipList) . zipWith id . getZipList < 1316485950 300564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric := liftM2 id < 1316485977 234278 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1316485978 259715 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t get < 1316485979 114961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) s. (MonadState s m) => m s < 1316485981 460998 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316485991 98822 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :getZipList /= get ZipList < 1316485991 952252 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: on would be useful there < 1316486003 707853 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think @pl uses that < 1316486031 9259 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, @pl has no idea about most functions < 1316486038 711195 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right I mistyped. < 1316486039 734189 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even less about types < 1316486079 335532 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh.... liftM2 = zipWith here? < 1316486084 289825 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is just wrapper stuff. < 1316486094 866802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t liftM2 < 1316486095 549378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a1 a2 r (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a1 -> a2 -> r) -> m a1 -> m a2 -> m r < 1316486097 942778 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1316486101 196238 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith < 1316486101 879647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] < 1316486106 188013 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src lifeM2 < 1316486106 359054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. < 1316486109 440008 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src liftM2 < 1316486109 607160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 f m1 m2 = do { x1 <- m1; x2 <- m2; return (f x1 x2) } < 1316486147 213435 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuh. < 1316486160 488666 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src zipWith < 1316486160 660239 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith f (a:as) (b:bs) = f a b : zipWith f as bs < 1316486160 830447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith _ _ _ = [] < 1316486219 157177 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if I stare long enough. < 1316486221 206756 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will come to me. < 1316486227 59516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ZipList l >>_ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map f l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in ZipList [1,2,3] >>_ flip replicateM "abcd" < 1316486227 912365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : Parse error in pattern < 1316486231 429233 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1316486240 361945 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1316486265 623259 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ZipList l >>+ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map f l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in ZipList [1,2,3] >>+ ZipList . flip replicateM "abcd" < 1316486266 308323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1316486266 499282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix `>>+' [infixl 9] and `L..' [infixr... < 1316486289 882241 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0 >>=) < 1316486290 602102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Base.>>=' [infixl 1] of a section < 1316486290 772875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower pr... < 1316486300 891736 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let infixl 1 >>+; ZipList l >>+ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map f l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in ZipList [1,2,3] >>+ ZipList . flip replicateM "abcd" < 1316486301 585786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1316486301 786201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Control.A... < 1316486305 338184 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undo liftM2 f m1 m2 = do { x1 <- m1; x2 <- m2; return (f x1 x2) } < 1316486305 507477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 f m1 m2 = m1 >>= \ x1 -> m2 >>= \ x2 -> return (f x1 x2) < 1316486310 408803 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src zipWith < 1316486310 426794 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1316486310 592958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith f (a:as) (b:bs) = f a b : zipWith f as bs < 1316486310 749182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith _ _ _ = [] < 1316486318 6238 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuuuh. < 1316486391 300673 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @pl @undo liftM2 f m1 m2 = do { x1 <- m1; x2 <- m2; return (f x1 x2) } < 1316486391 471223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : liftM2 = liftM2 < 1316486393 901704 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1316486408 634019 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKS < 1316486411 882263 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: (<*>) = zipWith ($), for that applicative < 1316486456 357498 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316486475 936847 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let infixl 1 >>+; ZipList l >>+ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map (getZipList . f) l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in ZipList [1,2,3] >>+ ZipList . flip replicateM "abcd" < 1316486476 621920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show < 1316486476 790351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Control.Applicative.Zip... < 1316486484 857236 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it types < 1316486491 180063 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ZipList [1,2] < 1316486491 863720 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (Control.Applicative.ZipList t)) < 1316486492 32848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising ... < 1316486505 834566 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let infixl 1 >>+; ZipList l >>+ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map (getZipList . f) l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in getZipList $ ZipList [1,2,3] >>+ ZipList . flip replicateM "abcd" < 1316486507 200458 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["a","ab","aac"] < 1316486524 734117 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1316486529 56866 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1316486530 604004 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that even doing. < 1316486541 386274 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, i did a monad too much < 1316486546 22912 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let infixl 1 >>+; ZipList l >>+ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map (getZipList . f) l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in getZipList $ ZipList [1,2,3] >>+ ZipList . flip replicate "abcd" < 1316486547 411883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["abcd"] < 1316486562 36339 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316486632 922368 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1316486648 311041 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let infixl 1 >>+; ZipList l >>+ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map (getZipList . f) l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in getZipList $ ZipList [1,2,3] >>+ ZipList . flip take "abcd" < 1316486649 759335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "a" < 1316486662 402250 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let infixl 1 >>+; ZipList l >>+ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map (getZipList . f) l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in getZipList $ ZipList [3,2,1] >>+ ZipList . flip take "abcd" < 1316486663 782870 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ab" < 1316486677 575628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that's breaking a law. :P < 1316486705 683935 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the scanl1 part is intended to fix some breakage that _does_ arise otherwise < 1316486731 555274 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, can you explain that function to me? < 1316486737 962261 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather cryptic < 1316486751 323328 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for any monad, x >>= f = join (fmap f x) < 1316486759 867637 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1316486765 473596 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so most of that is to define join < 1316486784 133964 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith (const id) just ignores the second list yes? < 1316486789 941145 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, first one? < 1316486803 351461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_almost_, but it uses it to truncate the _length_ < 1316486849 158298 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right. < 1316486852 265477 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :const id is the same as flip const < 1316486852 439563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1316486859 945675 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :intuitively, the join for this monad is taking the diagonal of a list of lists < 1316486861 830271 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes I know. < 1316486862 362710 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1316486872 913301 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: neat. < 1316486888 53726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would not have come to that conclusion for... well ever.
< 1316486917 327115 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot doesn't send that in notice? shameful < 1316486924 719744 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the message, I mean < 1316486948 819363 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discovery: A giant tub of chicken livers = $1.19 < 1316486971 723606 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to make a /stupid/ amount of liver paste. < 1316486974 292873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so uh... is that it? Monad for ZipList? < 1316486975 659037 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway yeah I forgot transformers wasn't included with ghc or something like that < 1316486976 856073 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is something wrong? < 1316486991 595812 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a dependency of template-haskell or whatever the th package is < 1316486995 108963 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i hope nothing's wrong with that scanl adjustment < 1316486998 993318 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever < 1316487030 786271 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take the diagonal naively, there is sometimes something wrong with the third monad law < 1316487053 869464 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that, and is the problem nontermination < 1316487079 498391 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you see anything that could not terminate in that definition :P < 1316487100 609140 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which it is! < 1316487102 235652 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also haven't been paying attention < 1316487116 859352 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let infixl 1 >>+; ZipList l >>+ f = ZipList . diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map (getZipList . f) l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in getZipList $ ZipList [3,2,1] >>+ ZipList . flip take "abcd" < 1316487118 390171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ab" < 1316487121 470748 :calamari-!~calamari@99-204-113-7.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316487124 549649 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1316487135 233797 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh >>+ is bind? < 1316487138 170231 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1316487142 783688 :calamari-!~calamari@99-204-113-7.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1316487149 123233 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i hope so < 1316487166 41287 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works to define the Applicative from it. even without the scanl1 part. < 1316487219 462175 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta check the laws < 1316487226 813647 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because the list of lists which arises from applicative use is always rectangular, so the scanl1 part has no effect < 1316487280 876177 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@do liftM2 id x y < 1316487281 86687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 id x y < 1316487283 616150 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1316487296 194020 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src liftM2 < 1316487296 328783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 f m1 m2 = do { x1 <- m1; x2 <- m2; return (f x1 x2) } < 1316487306 18598 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undo do { x1 <- m1; x2 <- m2; return (f x1 x2) } < 1316487306 189074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :m1 >>= \ x1 -> m2 >>= \ x2 -> return (f x1 x2) < 1316487338 594505 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is liftM2 = zipWith (with wrapping ignored) < 1316487348 322600 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl m1 >>= \ x1 -> m2 >>= \ x2 -> return (f x1 x2) < 1316487348 494251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`fmap` m2) . f =<< m1 < 1316487362 817929 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes < 1316487406 459408 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that again = join (fmap ((`fmap` m2) . f) m1) < 1316487433 269736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :publish a paper now. :P < 1316487447 616600 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may check that the argument of join is a rectangular list < 1316487452 119815 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1316487473 394472 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is surely known by everyone who has tried to define the monad before. < 1316487505 311905 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's not very obvious and not a lot of people have figured it out < 1316487515 49369 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that, if you put in f = (,), it will be obvious that join _has_ to take the diagonal elements to give the usual applicative. < 1316487534 888807 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those are the only spots where the right values for the result arise < 1316487664 144660 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. another way to see it is that since the part inside is only functors, it is in fact the same expression you join as for the _usual_ [] monad < 1316487710 78607 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the list comprehension [[f x y | y <- m2]| x <- m1] < 1316487730 509420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I believe zipper is a monad. has anyone ever written this? < 1316487738 72390 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's pretty obvious... < 1316487745 412284 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipper, a monad? < 1316487750 855079 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ZipList < 1316487752 391699 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which zipper is this < 1316487756 76276 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ziplist < 1316487762 463103 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm talking about zippers. < 1316487766 444062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh zippers < 1316487770 567462 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1316487789 417144 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so. < 1316487792 515379 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have multiple monad definitions I believe. >_> < 1316487795 482302 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only heard about them being comonads? or something like that? < 1316487845 770198 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the definition of a zipper :( < 1316487846 457025 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it follows from all this that the join of a monad is determined from the applicative on "rectangular" m (m x) values. < 1316487882 690535 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an yes "rectangular" < 1316487913 991950 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a value of the form [[f x y | y <- m2]| x <- m1], where you use monad comprehensions instead of just lists, i think. < 1316487936 765317 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if bind simply passed the current value of the zipper to the monadic function, would that break laws? < 1316487954 904727 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then returned whatever the function returned. < 1316487957 963229 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that these values only need Functor to construct them. < 1316487994 39149 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes it would... < 1316487999 683724 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you are talking about actual zippers, not ziplists? < 1316488008 736263 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1316488025 964281 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well left identity and right identity work. < 1316488044 824088 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wouldn't you need multiple holes? < 1316488053 410775 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1316488085 861451 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x >>= f , where f is a function which produces zippers with their one hole in different places... < 1316488101 91718 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you combine that into just one hole. < 1316488104 353151 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1316488115 747148 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f would only get called once < 1316488120 721508 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it literally just gets passed the current hole < 1316488124 998564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and returns the return of bind. < 1316488133 618516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh. < 1316488147 544087 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um the current hole with a value, then. < 1316488150 109089 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1316488163 695831 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't zippers always have a current value? < 1316488173 74458 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Zipper t = Zipper [t] t [t] < 1316488175 466184 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like so? < 1316488180 121300 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily... < 1316488182 996260 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a zipper on lists < 1316488186 461364 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1316488204 85041 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only zipper I'm familiar with. < 1316488227 103528 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not the only zipper < 1316488285 975742 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right you could have data Zipper t = Zipper [t] [t] < 1316488289 585214 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1316488289 925083 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would allow to possibility of empty. < 1316488294 44895 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1316488295 753217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what I meant < 1316488299 394710 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zippers aren't just for lists < 1316488299 703727 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know < 1316488305 283313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get what you said < 1316488308 812658 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a separate thought < 1316488334 73914 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for zippers < 1316488336 804450 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on lists < 1316488337 512962 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :first < 1316488340 284853 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your functor instance < 1316488341 143350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1316488344 553893 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your monad instance < 1316488345 589771 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway a zipper with a value, then you could splice >>= result in, i guess < 1316488354 72464 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh _wait_ < 1316488358 49664 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Client Quit < 1316488382 363398 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1316488384 767516 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Zipper t = Zipper [t] t [t] < 1316488390 841026 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :current (Zipper _ x _ ) = x < 1316488403 536516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: problem, (>>=) :: Zipper t -> (t -> Zipper u), what if t is not ~ u < 1316488419 861750 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CakeProphet: problem, (>>=) :: Zipper t -> (t -> Zipper u) -> Zipper u, what if t is not ~ u < 1316488421 401924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ u? < 1316488425 323053 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same as u < 1316488438 623624 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes that is a problem. :P < 1316488441 19427 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about dealing with types that way. I was going to illustrate the same problem but a different way < 1316488458 171442 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by taking the functor instance and then showing how doing it his way with a good functor instance would break monad laws < 1316488469 30794 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's much easier to notice the types problem < 1316488470 435678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah that bind doesn't work < 1316488491 951727 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doing a map over all of the values in the zipper doesn't work because each returned zipper can have different holes and such. < 1316488528 9982 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just ignore that and concatenate their current values together while keeping the same location in the original zipper < 1316488531 111201 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that makes sense. < 1316488609 38411 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to preserve the holes for the return x >>= f case < 1316488609 555798 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Zipper l x r) >>= f = Zipper (map (current.f) l) (f x) (map (current.f) r) < 1316488677 951604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that would work?? < 1316488710 816382 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's current < 1316488720 574490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :current (Zipper _ x _ ) = x < 1316488729 641802 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :return a = Zipper [] a [] < 1316488749 570446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1316488751 35119 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: (f x) doesn't have the right type < 1316488751 198234 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f x) < 1316488753 265650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't possible < 1316488753 987290 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1316488766 179564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(current.f) then < 1316488792 639291 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think satisfies left/right identity... somehow. < 1316488827 990740 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1316488854 56784 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (z) = [1,2,3] (current z) [1,2,3] < 1316488859 427539 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the identities don't work. < 1316488934 874397 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :return a >>= f = Zipper [] a [] < 1316488947 123721 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = Zipper [1,2,3] a [1,2,3] < 1316489002 889459 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my original definitioin for bind that only applied f to the current value would work if you had < 1316489014 263105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Zipper t a = Zipper [t] a [t] < 1316489020 288232 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's... probably not very useful. < 1316489038 646531 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it has the wrong kind. < 1316489110 674042 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a genrric zipper monas < 1316489111 365632 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1316489117 412106 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let infixl 1 >>+; l >>+ f = diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map f l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] < 1316489118 77318 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1316489126 331465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: a relievf < 1316489133 456118 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the formal defintion of a ziepr < 1316489141 340825 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://conway.rutgers.edu/~ccshan/wiki/blog/posts/WalkZip3/ and previous posts < 1316489142 357505 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not know :( < 1316489184 255437 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/continuations/zipper.html#traversable has simpler and more restricted generic zipper but i don't think it's a monad < 1316489197 717041 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blog posts i linked are sequel to that < 1316489204 227552 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check (x >>+ f >>+ g) == ((x :: [Int]) >>+ \t -> (f t :: [Int]) >>+ g :: [Int]) < 1316489204 738176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `>>+'Not in scope: `>>+'Not in scope: `>>+'Not in scope: `>>+' < 1316489212 291504 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff < 1316489225 551905 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a name for monads that can't change type in their bind...... as in m a -> (a -> m a) -> m a < 1316489231 18639 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>+) < 1316489231 704518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a1 a. [a1] -> (a1 -> [a]) -> [a] < 1316489274 315078 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check let infixl 1 >>+; l >>+ f = diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map f l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in (x >>+ f >>+ g) == ((x :: [Int]) >>+ \t -> (f t :: [Int]) >>+ g :: [Int]) < 1316489274 484086 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what < 1316489274 827923 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1316489313 384988 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: if you're going mathy you're dealing with the functor stuff with unit and join < 1316489320 319303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let infixl 1 >>+; l >>+ f = diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map f l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in (x >>+ f >>+ g) == ((x :: [Int]) >>+ \t -> (f t :: [Int]) >>+ g :: [Int]) < 1316489321 2014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' against inferred type `Expr' < 1316489321 173879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(>>+)', namely `x' < 1316489321 191750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(>>+)', namely `x >>+ f' < 1316489328 198669 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1316489338 964144 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: as in a monad with the restriction that monadic functions applied to bind preserve the type of the monad. < 1316489341 781336 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and a functor from a category to itself is called an endofunctor i think?? < 1316489350 889570 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check let infixl 1 >>+; l >>+ f = diag . scanl1 (zipWith (const id)) $ map f l where diag ((x:xs):xss) = x:diag (map (drop 1) xss); diag _ = [] in \x f g -> (x >>+ f >>+ g) == ((x :: [Int]) >>+ \t -> (f t :: [Int]) >>+ g :: [Int]) < 1316489351 398252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show < 1316489351 609053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (GHC.T... < 1316489365 333128 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1316489381 19883 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BURN < 1316489395 558443 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i need to actually learn category theory < 1316489395 576050 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how < 1316489398 465533 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1316489415 860386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :math Ph.D < 1316489420 133806 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it tries to `show` couterexamples < 1316489423 5034 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter < 1316489438 62874 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so inputs must have Show < 1316489444 900873 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> :t (`show`) < 1316489445 582793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `:' < 1316489450 354754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (`show`) < 1316489451 35650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `)' < 1316489460 924107 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, Windows must be a pain to develop. < 1316489466 789100 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're up to 5 fucking APIs now. < 1316489487 767660 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS, Win16, Win32, CLR, and WinRT. < 1316489494 678883 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: some _idiot_ decided to overlap the function Shows :( < 1316489536 865632 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's conquest of monadic ziplist glory is met with fierce and imposing obsctacles. How will he proceed? < 1316489556 652809 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinRT? < 1316489557 851834 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably by banning everyone in the channel and going down in flames. < 1316489564 153976 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does function show even suposesd to work < 1316489564 496520 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can use quickcheck locally, but i am sceptical functions have a useful Arbitrary instance anyhow < 1316489582 152688 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: that's what CoArbitrary _is_ for < 1316489606 286120 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrary a where whatever :: a -> a -> Maybe a -> ???!?!?!!?!? < 1316489618 993934 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh < 1316489624 580340 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh I think I just may try to get Puppy Linux working, or something < 1316489644 328498 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is painful. I can't get Lubuntu to boot into X < 1316489649 447202 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d932d647.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1316489656 891934 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here we go < 1316489721 987149 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how do notation usually makes thing more annoying looking. < 1316489739 758276 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... not usually < 1316489744 204241 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes the monad laws looks cumbersome. < 1316489757 930714 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1316489757 949034 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you donotationing the monad laws < 1316489771 629925 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I double check that casper is in use without rebooting? < 1316489793 436073 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1316489949 172934 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I'm not but haskellwiki does. < 1316489950 574186 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316489956 420301 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the section "practical meaning of the monad laws" < 1316489959 498638 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1316489962 312058 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if it makes it more practical or something. < 1316489965 134128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1316489981 557726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In this notation the laws appear as plain common sense." < 1316490018 253055 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only appear as plain common sense to me when they're pointfree :| < 1316490033 555884 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you write them pointfree... < 1316490037 701819 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, /proc/cmdline mentions persistent. That's a good sign right? < 1316490056 422393 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how do you write them in do-notation < 1316490070 983491 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Monad_Laws < 1316490236 583276 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :return x >>= f ≡ f x; m >>= return ≡ m; (m >>= f) >>= g ≡ m >>= (f >>= g) < 1316490241 403152 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happey?? < 1316490264 933440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's "point-free"? < 1316490271 856608 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you expect < 1316490276 373910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no points. < 1316490301 811184 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops!!! < 1316490310 674943 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\f x -> x >>= f) < 1316490310 846951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=<<) < 1316490316 788865 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1316490334 654296 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=<<) = ($) < 1316490336 356963 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1316490350 110221 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1316490356 68765 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\f x -> return x >>= f) < 1316490356 239445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :id < 1316490357 95066 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1316490360 474917 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :id = ($) < 1316490363 592265 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1316490402 919104 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\m -> m >>= return) < 1316490403 90081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :id < 1316490411 919219 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :id = id < 1316490415 728823 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the second one < 1316490418 19566 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1316490428 402092 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: if you'd like your "point-free" definitions, try section "But it doesn't look exactly like an "associative law"..." < 1316490446 557674 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah >=> make more sense for point freedom. < 1316490468 363003 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(return >=>) = id < 1316490475 434153 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haiku form is good < 1316490484 100394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst haiku ever. < 1316490490 78572 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's good shut up < 1316490510 777255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no taste in poetry < 1316490542 514406 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :poeterry < 1316490546 611523 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pottery < 1316490648 543955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1316490691 980231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do you know about high-quality medieval clothing? (This question is for the D&D game, actually) < 1316490734 58968 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :extreme roleplaying? < 1316490752 405572 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll never understand < 1316490785 946516 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am teh expert < 1316490791 929077 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: know I think he wants to know for realism < 1316490795 636654 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for LARPing or anything. < 1316490811 547928 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, correct; it is not LARPing. < 1316491582 408619 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious, a spambot made a spam userpage, and then another spambot made a spam talk page for it, which looks like the original but with the links or something like that shuffled around a bit < 1316491641 351519 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spambot mating dance < 1316491659 924107 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :call david attenborough < 1316491817 600971 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316491851 130492 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1316491912 637484 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316491973 892599 :mike!4c10ed4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.16.237.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316491999 423830 :mike!4c10ed4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.16.237.79 NICK :Guest99864 < 1316492030 136984 :Guest99864!4c10ed4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.16.237.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1316492148 102199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1316492149 574174 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1316492261 434115 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1316492396 635081 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316492477 437992 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi guest < 1316492626 438993 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1316492743 366364 :Guest99864!4c10ed4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.16.237.79 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1316492750 651793 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip guest < 1316492779 884495 :michaelh!4c10ed4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.16.237.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316492788 370537 :michaelh!4c10ed4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.16.237.79 QUIT :Client Quit < 1316492801 851415 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip same guy prolly < 1316492839 218421 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: rip to shreds < 1316493019 685057 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316493147 890022 :michael1411!4c10ed4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.16.237.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316493462 477937 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1316493488 115131 :zzo38_!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1316493493 621206 :zzo38_!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com NICK :zzo38 < 1316493594 805627 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. If all Catholic bishops agree on a matter of faith and morals at any given time, it becomes the irrevocable, infallible, canonical belief of the Catholic Church forevermore. < 1316493612 876501 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee < 1316493639 391943 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe this implies that it is official Catholic doctrine that the world is flat, and that disease is caused by miasma. < 1316493718 234575 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to prove that < 1316493721 284587 :michael1411!4c10ed4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.16.237.79 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1316493728 755874 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also miasma isn't really a matter of faith and morals is it < 1316493731 789955 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe worldflatness < 1316493746 250424 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, world flatness was treated as such, miasma not so much. < 1316493791 493403 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to define faith and morals according to modern-day conception < 1316493797 620482 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which the flatness of the world is not considered a matter of faith < 1316493798 664592 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1316493807 345606 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was once, ergo it is forevermore. < 1316493823 48478 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't < 1316493836 706681 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't a matter of [modernday]faith and [modernday]morals < 1316493838 383090 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats about the flatness of this insight, anyone found out yet? < 1316493843 226452 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where [modernday] indicates using today's definition < 1316493849 143800 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: so what was that ansi c dump stuff about < 1316493865 245754 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woa, you're scary elliott < 1316493868 630388 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316493886 138582 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are frightening me < 1316493894 153597 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1316493918 296801 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your britwa sharpened mind < 1316493925 377025 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316493926 592781 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1316493932 530237 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its out of topic now < 1316493958 201719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also be infallible doctrine that Jesus did not walk the Earth, which produces some major headaches. < 1316493967 12121 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: you said you'd explain it later < 1316493972 24785 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is now later, i'm askin' < 1316493981 341442 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is hard to tell, because it depends on heavily ambiguous records) < 1316493988 393677 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't actually know what the context was it would be hard for me to steer the topic to that < 1316494000 219739 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you let me know what the context was I will make it on topic < 1316494020 879106 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know..you can do that..that's right, but i want to discuss religion now < 1316494024 810797 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1316494048 817945 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why your conversations in other channels would affect what you talk about in here < 1316494067 799245 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, since it is claimed that the Church's authority comes from Jesus *as a person* bestowing it upon St. Peter, the first Pope, if it is also the case that it is claimed Jesus never existed then the Church goes up in a puff of logical smoke. < 1316494088 557767 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thery're all like, yes looking to say sth wise < 1316494097 513959 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im out for sth true < 1316494102 574729 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can udig it? < 1316494114 291843 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: what? < 1316494122 507126 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1316494124 412628 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ansic < 1316494142 363100 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate k&r style < 1316494190 144390 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the dump you were talking about < 1316494205 455787 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've drunken to much to care bout now..i want to know more about jesus walking the earth now < 1316494229 28470 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've drunken too much to make any sense, too < 1316494234 110152 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :please focus on the mwean things < 1316494240 592227 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwean? < 1316494244 553696 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let me just shut up < 1316494269 905993 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i think he wants you to talk about jesus < 1316494276 44789 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. < 1316494286 201391 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Well, it's kinda interesting; the writings of Paul (the first Christian records we have *at all*) do not seem to claim that Jesus was anything but a supernatural spirit. The concept of Jesus as a human being seems to have only come about decades later. < 1316494293 961506 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx elliott, please dont get mad bout this < 1316494312 948438 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i get mad < 1316494384 983691 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus, yes.. he was human < 1316494391 763104 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is fantastic < 1316494412 48201 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than beeing able to speak with fish.. like seaman does < 1316494422 428789 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote jesus, yes.. he was human and that is fantastic more than beeing able to speak with fish.. like seaman does < 1316494423 991104 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :674) jesus, yes.. he was human and that is fantastic more than beeing able to speak with fish.. like seaman does < 1316494444 291927 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminded me of itidus there < 1316494469 290182 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what drunken does < 1316494648 29495 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316494659 696550 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316494721 464525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think () is final objects in Hask but are there initial objects? But I don't really know for sure, I don't really know a lot of things about category theory < 1316494843 83950 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is newtype an isomorphism? < 1316495344 533043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says it isn't inital or terminal because of undefined. < 1316495351 493554 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's it < 1316495405 516926 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, is it, if you ignore undefined, and work only with fully defined programs? < 1316496434 664149 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, in spite of Windows CE's abysmal UI, the combination of that and an FTP server is making the Zune approach being a sufferable device. < 1316496443 169635 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I can get media to it without booting Windows. < 1316496447 719534 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except on it :P ) < 1316497283 250751 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now get Rockbox on it. < 1316497385 561163 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was Rockbox for Windows CE, that would be great. < 1316497393 422586 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think they have Rockbox-as-an-app. < 1316497406 393147 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure as hell not figuring out how to chainload this thing :P < 1316497462 466287 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316497762 718262 :Zuu!~zuu@77.215.149.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316497771 134603 :Zuu!~zuu@77.215.149.86 QUIT :Changing host < 1316497771 152646 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1316497977 863783 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle Bool -> Maybe a -> Maybe a < 1316497978 237133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases orElse :: Maybe a -> Maybe a -> Maybe a < 1316497978 448320 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe fromMaybe :: a -> Maybe a -> a < 1316497978 466246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad unless :: Monad m => Bool -> m () -> m () < 1316498612 647582 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1316498712 814881 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1316499737 307906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I managed to make it derive instances of Language.Haskell.Syntax.TH.Lift < 1316500763 187142 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is wrong: z' = foldl AppE x'' $ map (AppE (VarE 'lift) . VarE) z; < 1316500790 767816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I need to apply AppE in the generated code, too. < 1316501023 212224 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-243-76.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1316501080 572592 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to derive Lift? dataToExpQ/dataToQa are good enough for converting simple data things, and for anything else, I imagine a manual instance would be necessary < 1316501136 255020 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you want antiquotation you'd either need a manual instance or I guess you might be able to make an automated derivation that handled antiquotation cases maybe??? < 1316501270 248336 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by hnadled antiquotation cases I mean you give it a constructor and it treats the contents in a special way (if it handles Exp, leave as-is; for String, use haskell-src-exts or something) < 1316501300 305691 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could one where the user provides such cases and you could prepackage an antiquotation one < 1316501302 4403 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actuallyy I fixed the deriving Lift, now it works. < 1316501306 270325 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1316501322 785108 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again you'd rpobably just be able to do what i described with dataToQa but I forget how it works < 1316501329 656877 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, if you declare deriveLift ''Ordering; then you can have $(lift LT) = LT < 1316501340 343581 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's syb and syb is all about the sort of things I described < 1316501354 715299 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works with constructors having parameters, too. < 1316501372 214099 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you ever used dataToExpQ or dataToQa? < 1316501375 208179 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or syb? < 1316501379 988729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you may find syb interesting < 1316501414 729665 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also managed to make extractQ :: Q a -> a; it does work in many cases (in the cases that it doesn't work, you either get the error "No value in Quasi" or "Cannot perform I/O") < 1316501433 42164 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :extractQ works with lift and with [| ... |] < 1316501448 473559 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1316501468 739239 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also works with report although the result will always be () < 1316501558 490180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: No, I have never heard of dataToExpQ, dataToQa, or syb. < 1316501599 561255 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dataToExpQ takes any instance of Data and converts it to Q Exp < 1316501625 898555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1316501626 836185 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dataToQa requires a bit more work but you can do more with it < 1316501640 878863 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're implemented with syb, a generic programming library thing < 1316501670 749636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mine just derives instances, and it does not have to already be an instance of anything else. However, its parameters must be instances of Lift. < 1316501789 304896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does reify tell anything about the instances of types? what I'm getting at: if there are parameters not instances of Lift, could you derive instances for them? < 1316501859 701383 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316501861 290596 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: The parameters might be variable types, though. < 1316501876 265231 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1316501960 551561 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the program I used, and maybe it is too long; is there shorter way to derive Lift? http://hpaste.org/51559 < 1316502104 207266 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extractQ uses the Maybe monad, in which most things it cannot implement are Nothing, except runIO which is an error. < 1316502112 894138 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :extractQ = maybe (error "No value in Quasi") id . runQ; < 1316502252 913073 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1316502771 54483 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316502803 212373 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the module "ExtraTH" with various things related to Template Haskell, these are exports: newVar, newVarMany, newCon, foreign_export, genCurry, genUncurry, extractQ, QuasiState(..), quasiState, recUpd, deriveLift. (Later I might add more) These are instances: instance Quasi Maybe; instance Quasi (State QuasiState); Instance MonadIO Q; < 1316502953 715270 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh monqy did < 1316502954 786098 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an talkify < 1316502967 116998 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy c < 1316502980 440674 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"monqy c" --itidus21 < 1316503070 19582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some way to add fields to QuasiState to allow reify and recover and classInstances to be usable in the state monad? < 1316503087 708766 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1316503134 535162 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (tidus x) (* x x x)) (tidus 5) == 125 ... proof i have been reading some SICP ^_^; < 1316503172 42162 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1316503316 330505 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt intend to make that second pun of "monqy did, monqy c" "tidus x" < 1316503368 538834 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i do feel kind of guilty for that unprovoked comment < 1316503438 218313 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone used HsOpenSSL? < 1316503449 18499 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: It is totally disallowed to make comments without provoking. < 1316503455 363970 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why IRC is constantly silent forever. < 1316503499 568062 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do people go to screw around on irc? < 1316503543 742844 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb question as i don't really want an answer < 1316503572 120809 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best if we don't know where we screw around.. seinfeld world colliding theory < 1316503712 559058 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is here. < 1316503720 451640 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1316503729 375812 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges uh oh < 1316503777 662982 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no it's more of that userpage then usertalk page nonsense < 1316503785 823081 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a spambotloop... < 1316503805 422179 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these guys made a spam talkpage for someone without a userpage < 1316503810 960112 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::') < 1316503813 380712 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thoughtful < 1316503824 441257 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it says like < 1316503825 655529 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1316503825 830656 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 123 even a user < 1316503826 558561 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in spambot < 1316503838 878302 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/123 < 1316503840 604855 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 has never made changes at least... < 1316503841 123039 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently>??? < 1316503841 297755 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1316504209 15888 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least one of them got put inside one of those special boxes that is monospace and doesn't linewrap... < 1316504218 570145 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now my horizontal scrollbar.... < 1316504222 213661 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lnike... < 1316504223 249392 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to < 1316504224 137656 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see.... < 1316504226 321101 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bxoxoe < 1316504229 263282 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Zhanzhan < 1316504238 277725 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its bauteful < 1316504240 6272 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor zhanzhan < 1316504251 852214 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hedid toh..e..himself < 1316504269 810731 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor zahnzhan ;__; < 1316504275 849849 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;__; < 1316504559 464634 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know about the highest quality of medieval clothing for the purpose of D&D game. I already know the color, it is yellow and orange. What I don't know is materials (the DM doesn't know either). < 1316504573 532942 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im the best < 1316504576 307225 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediveal ;__; < 1316504760 338192 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just made up the color, and said it is otherwise like highest quality fashion medieval clothing. < 1316504924 421437 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about that kind of things? < 1316505097 546324 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The situation is, the navy probably thinks we were nobility but doesn't actually know where we came from (we were actually caught and enslaved, and escaped, and eventually found by the navy). < 1316505248 47201 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good class improvement file? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Metamind.c < 1316505384 824863 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other class improvement file is this one: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Illithid_Savant.c (Note: I plan to add a few more things under "Extras"; such as the "Impostor" ability) (Note: the "Extras" must be selected and learned individually and are limited per day) < 1316505694 194125 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle lift < 1316505694 368199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Trans lift :: (MonadTrans t, Monad m) => m a -> t m a < 1316505694 537399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.ParserCombinators.ReadPrec lift :: ReadP a -> ReadPrec a < 1316505694 555399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax lift :: Lift t => t -> Q Exp < 1316505718 479958 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: The one I used is Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax < 1316505733 409478 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I actually did that in response to unrelated #haskell chat :P < 1316505735 850603 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, unrelated to your code < 1316505745 607765 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1316505773 48283 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you know if my code for deriving Lift could be made shorter? < 1316505802 948847 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1316505829 103228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem to be too long, but I don't know if it is really too long < 1316505959 398087 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does work how it is now, so that deriveLift ''Ordering; allows you to do $(lift EQ) and it work. < 1316506030 164177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do you know any information related to my question about the clothing? < 1316506313 550527 :ive!~nn@189.179.246.222 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1316506546 963160 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316506571 945434 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1316506775 460976 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316508394 259418 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1316508921 706460 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1316509693 109014 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316509724 916514 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1316510463 726828 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316510480 202365 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316510595 262755 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1316510996 224973 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316511033 816484 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316511278 921600 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Client Quit < 1316511705 241743 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316511773 267630 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Client Quit < 1316511801 987947 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316511915 503527 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de NICK :cheater2 < 1316511930 737339 :cheater_!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de NICK :cheater < 1316512568 850092 :cheater!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1316512598 583912 :cheater!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316515916 928142 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a convenient bash command to wrap an input at a certain line length? < 1316515964 450757 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1316516149 88855 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. in fact HackEgo uses it. < 1316516155 709325 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately its name escapes me- < 1316516156 223046 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1316516156 770716 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmt < 1316516157 981733 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1316516163 558101 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ps. it's not "bash command" < 1316516193 889798 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the palatable terminology around these parts? < 1316516198 334108 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix command? < 1316516198 501987 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell utility? < 1316516201 257375 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :program? < 1316516209 464728 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardly specific to bash. < 1316516251 431596 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to just do a byte cutoff with head < 1316516261 818847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of wrapping lines and cutting by line. < 1316516272 836977 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmt -w width < 1316516274 854972 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :job done < 1316516404 96748 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I keep forgetting... < 1316516413 469020 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to redirect stderr to stdout < 1316516420 749879 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1>&2 or something? < 1316516424 62968 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1316516428 515364 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap the 2 and 1 I think < 1316516451 591662 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1316516454 72114 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(swap) < 1316516463 57771 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that can be done before a pipe? < 1316516468 323611 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1>&2 | ... < 1316516484 615131 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot the swap. < 1316516485 297693 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes. < 1316516512 455083 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci -v0 < inp 2>&1 < 1316516514 615164 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks strange to me. < 1316516520 245061 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that valid? < 1316516540 257716 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is. < 1316516547 452635 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing? < 1316516553 287048 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on my IRC bot. < 1316516615 321342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically giving :t and > proper cutoffs. < 1316516629 723627 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ghci command is ridiculously unsafe. < 1316516665 80119 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? I guess if someone were to, say, edit inp in the split second opportunity they have to do so. < 1316516711 849020 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you even doing it via a file < 1316516717 912904 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you even involving the shell < 1316516730 458831 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your language has perfectly good process spawning/pipe utilities, use them < 1316516783 9592 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess I could use :m instead of :l < 1316516793 719097 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :open my $f, '>inp'; print $f ":l botload.hs\n:t $1"; close $f; my $msg = qx/ghci -v0 < inp 2>&1 | head -n 3/; < 1316516815 716357 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::l contains a bunch of imports. I basically borrowed it from mueval. < 1316516818 443807 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1316516820 789676 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :botload.hs I mean < 1316516841 19640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I realize the security issue with that. < 1316516848 537987 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bash shorthand of "blah |& bleh" to do "blah 2>&1 | bleh". < 1316516879 165165 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if I'd use it, but it exists. < 1316516882 812478 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how much unix programming do you actualy know < 1316516886 931621 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: can you recommend a better way? < 1316516890 20220 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: a little. < 1316516896 274333 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using a temporary file and the shell there for absolutely no reason, just exposing yourself to holes and wasting time < 1316516915 954637 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know perl, look up how it does processes and pipes, they are not difficult concepts\ < 1316516920 335629 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\// < 1316516984 524452 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "simple" pipe-open won't cut it if you also want to capture the output of ghci. < 1316517009 499308 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Otherwise it would be open my $f, '|-', "ghci -whatver -it -needs -to -read -stdin -if -anything"; print $f whatever; or some-such.) < 1316517057 32670 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1316517062 811918 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IPC::Open2 provides a two-pipe 'open2' solution, though it can easily deadlock if it's used with unfriendly processes. < 1316517069 544669 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1316517074 937435 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1316517093 388655 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :capturing the output would just be read $f right? < 1316517103 954273 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The "simple" pipe-open won't cut it if you also want to capture the output of ghci. < 1316517104 473260 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pipes only go one way. < 1316517118 601339 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm...? < 1316517125 877662 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except Solaris pipes, those are bidirectional. < 1316517159 750259 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :open my $f, '|-', "ghci ..." attaches the $f handle to the write end of a pipe that is connected to the stdin of ghci. < 1316517163 52703 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't read from it. < 1316517169 670918 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost positive I've written code in which I piped stdin of something to my programs' stdout, and then read from the process.. < 1316517175 700178 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1316517317 175439 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :While $foo = qx/.../; does what's basically equivalent to open my $h, '-|', "..."; $foo = join('', <$h>); close $h; (Note '-|' as opposed to '|-' -- there is no '|-|' because open can't return more than one handle.) < 1316517326 460136 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might capture stderr too. < 1316517340 120283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if I redirect it. < 1316517383 975803 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so could I echo inp | ghci ... then? < 1316517392 400362 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inp being a string not a file < 1316517400 321729 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to have shell injection problems, sure. < 1316517401 29966 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then read that? < 1316517405 554898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316517414 19654 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would something be injected? < 1316517439 617560 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :By inputting the string "haha | rm -rf ~/* | echo hehe", for example? < 1316517481 248115 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... right./ < 1316517512 463434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see an issue with using shell as there's no IRC-side exploits... < 1316517538 159837 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1316517545 353428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott, hi underscore < 1316517559 332418 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're shell-command-line-executing untrusted input without quoting it, that's certainly a problem. I haven't really been following the context here. < 1316517605 47751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing to files and then using those files as input to shell commands < 1316517623 200904 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exploit would be that someone can modify the files on my side, but not from IRC. < 1316517697 321733 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't mind the temporary file, that's certainly doable. You can get by without, though. < 1316517751 993688 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_ minds but I don't. < 1316518442 30463 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1316518450 616089 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :PURN < 1316518475 914663 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purn yourself. < 1316518686 183522 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Purn < 1316518695 887051 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1316518747 520852 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1316518750 955746 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trokdor the purninator. < 1316518787 337560 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mueval doesn't read stdin... < 1316518788 719768 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamża < 1316518978 255647 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: of course not, mueval uses the ghc api. < 1316519022 918645 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $msg = qx/mueval -Ee "`cat inp`" | head -c 100/; < 1316519029 410277 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this code doesn't disgust you in any way? < 1316519030 435306 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1316519035 466288 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides being perl. < 1316519050 723328 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needlessly invokes the shell. < 1316519086 384738 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....that's kind of like, a thing perl is good at though. OPEN REQUIRES MORE TYPING. < 1316519199 369788 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when is it not needless to invoke the shell? < 1316519226 442029 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316519230 451291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1316519581 810450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1316519587 794412 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1316519591 574581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1316519612 150811 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hi hi\ < 1316519629 296384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1316520114 672482 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runST (do { x <- newSTRef; writeSTRef x "hello"; read STRef x}) < 1316520115 526077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `STRef' < 1316520119 466769 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runST (do { x <- newSTRef; writeSTRef x "hello"; readSTRef x}) < 1316520120 148075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.ST.ST s a' < 1316520120 321434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1316520127 60759 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runST (do { x <- newSTRef "hi"; writeSTRef x "hello"; readSTRef x}) < 1316520127 950347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hello" < 1316520153 333012 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mueval doesn't import ST. < 1316520159 736059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to hack the source to allow it to do such. < 1316520248 632758 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1316520281 776689 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ST inherently magical or is it implemently with pure code? < 1316520283 193034 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :mueval;O < 1316520289 533367 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it uses State# but I don't really know how that works. < 1316520345 102421 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ST < 1316520345 937428 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `ST' < 1316520352 62313 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it doesn't export that. < 1316520695 371557 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-> < 1316520865 108086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ST can be implemented with unsafeCoerce. < 1316520877 311623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ... IORefs :P < 1316520885 991433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unsafePerformIO for runST < 1316520897 768491 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, how would IORefs work outside of IO? < 1316520899 127047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ofc unsafePerformIO + IORefs gives you unsafeCoerce < 1316520902 371712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: they wouldn't < 1316520908 694921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype ST s a = ST (IO a) < 1316520914 625234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runST :: (forall s. ST s a) -> a < 1316520918 57928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runST (ST a) = unsafePerformIO a < 1316520920 991211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh uh... < 1316520927 654448 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of defeats the purpose of ST though. < 1316520930 740872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1316520935 401554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just as pure from the outside < 1316520977 846420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :runST $ ST (readFile "/etc/passwd") < 1316520979 383619 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um? < 1316521001 533063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah because you naturally export the ST constructor, as we're operating under the assumption that the implementer is a fucking moron apparently < 1316521016 477103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this coming minutes after you realise that the GHC implementation doesn't export the constructor either < 1316521052 325156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra vitriolic today are we? < 1316521104 926502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not ruling out the possibility that the implementer is a fucking moron, it's true that I didn't consider it < 1316521113 819682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definitely _would_ break referential transparency. < 1316521242 753121 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply didn't consider that ST would be hidden and so it wouldn't matter. >_> < 1316521255 784631 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz don't rip my head off. < 1316521265 828843 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But GHC implements IO using ST! < 1316521276 961522 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is your GoD now. < 1316521284 444728 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I believe it uses State# right? < 1316521295 142439 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> or? < 1316521336 517930 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> <_< < 1316521356 346268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why isn't (IO a -> ST RealWorld a) in Control.Monad.ST < 1316521369 38788 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeSTToIO :: ST s a -> IO a < 1316521369 895872 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeSTToIO (ST m) = IO (unsafeCoerce# m) < 1316521370 578275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't exploit it without something else unsafe, so it's perfectly fine < 1316521373 694547 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently. < 1316521390 514873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: IO is implemented identically to ST, but neither in terms of the other. < 1316521398 735172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO just fixes s = RealWorld. < 1316521399 245289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that's what I thought. < 1316521431 861095 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stToIO :: ST RealWorld a -> IO a < 1316521432 383260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stToIO (ST m) = IO m < 1316521437 284697 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun stuff. < 1316521461 145481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stToIO and unsafeIOToST are rather useful. < 1316521515 695800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: You should solve my Template Haskell library linking issue, it'd be great < 1316521531 527167 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should? If I could, I would! < 1316521553 230495 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stToIO :: ST RealWorld a -> IO a < 1316521554 255022 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stToIO (ST m) = IO m < 1316521564 718208 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't this be used to create side-effects in ST? < 1316521582 192566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How? < 1316521590 778048 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er I mean ioToST < 1316521594 368192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Maybe you can, you don't even know what it is yet < 1316521607 615523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there is no ioToST < 1316521614 974308 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioToST :: IO a -> ST RealWorld a < 1316521615 529381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioToST (IO m) = (ST m) < 1316521618 98564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :must not be exported < 1316521626 351509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeIOToST is < 1316521635 625092 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeIOToST :: IO a -> ST s a < 1316521636 136092 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeIOToST (IO io) = ST $ \ s -> (unsafeCoerce# io) s < 1316521638 394758 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1316521640 667913 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log what is love < 1316521641 165929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioToST cannot be used to create usable side-effects in ST < 1316521644 127374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at runST's type < 1316521651 889917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"s" must be universally quantified < 1316521656 173230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioToST fixes it at RealWorld < 1316521660 458575 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-02-28.txt:21:21:36: What is love? < 1316521664 580639 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1316521672 279997 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeIOToST :: IO a -> forall s. ST s a < 1316521675 182865 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck < 1316521676 206590 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to use stToIO < 1316521691 19392 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get sideeffects < 1316521712 256863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ioToST introduces unsafety, actually < 1316521733 912668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because (stToIO st) is a pure computation without the unsafe functions < 1316521736 355536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioToST breaks that < 1316521762 21672 :cheater!~cheater@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1316521782 532886 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's what I was originally thinking. < 1316521788 617601 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need unsafeIOToST to add new primitives to ST < 1316521795 40645 :cheater2!~ubuntu@ip-77-24-134-128.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1316521833 55378 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioToST (readFile "/etc/passwd") < 1316521836 797571 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to add new primitives. < 1316521836 815641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: indeed < 1316521884 495209 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/passwd should be read into oleg's existentially quantified configuration typeclass, you oaf < 1316521890 648063 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still you have to convert back to IO at some point to actually get the side-effects. < 1316521901 209739 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1316521970 805377 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case ioToST isn't exported. < 1316522047 156972 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't be implemented without the ST constructor. < 1316522095 603833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it can. < 1316522101 364150 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not safely I mean... < 1316522102 563271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeIOToST is trivially specialised to ioToST. < 1316522177 490871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I'm disappointed in you < 1316522224 241724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm what new ST primitives would be nice. < 1316522242 906348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :STMtoST? < 1316522254 286589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :forkST :P < 1316522274 734417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: https://github.com/ehird/vault/blob/master/src/Data/Vault/ST.hs#L43 < 1316522313 156633 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you use unsafe things so much. < 1316522335 466159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See https://github.com/ehird/vault/blob/master/src/Data/Vault/ST.hs#L6 < 1316522342 885029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It already used unsafeCoerce, I just made it usable from ST < 1316522347 144868 :cheater!~cheater@ip-109-43-42-150.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316522352 34796 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you use unsafe things so much. < 1316522353 439712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which involved introducing the newUnique primitive into ST. < 1316522356 713586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: < 1316522358 655818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : See https://github.com/ehird/vault/blob/master/src/Data/Vault/ST.hs#L6 < 1316522358 822150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : It already used unsafeCoerce, I just made it usable from ST < 1316522360 21508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Which involved introducing the newUnique primitive into ST. < 1316522363 73572 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh because I already used unsafe things" is not an acceptable answer :P < 1316522420 111056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I didn't < 1316522428 101584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the "forked from HeinrichApfelmus/vault" < 1316522438 701197 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1316522448 100308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: And using {ST,IO}Refs would result in a vastly slower implementation. < 1316522456 416143 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it doesn't explain why you use unsafe things so much. < 1316522465 305651 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :efficiency? < 1316522536 471555 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1316522539 202579 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316522579 523080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Because I do interesting things < 1316522664 173113 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the Keys are typed and that's why the vault doesn't have to contain values of one type. < 1316522667 111246 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTRIGUING < 1316522686 451800 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean < 1316522687 645319 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not why < 1316522706 847015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See https://github.com/HeinrichApfelmus/reactive-banana/issues/12 for more along those lines. :p < 1316522708 496741 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean to say, that's why it's not annoying to work with, because the Key provides the type information for everything else. < 1316522718 998833 :cheater2!~ubuntu@ip-109-43-42-150.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1316522772 867328 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could see using something like Vault for a MUD server. < 1316522796 809370 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to store object attributes. < 1316522856 384190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you could also just use a record. < 1316522872 881365 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but the idea is for to be like a MOO where the game is modifiable from within the game. < 1316522896 176890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't be able to use vaults nicely for that; that's verging on dependent typing. < 1316522908 336868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just model the (probably bad) language's (probably bad) object model directly. < 1316522908 508496 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent or dynamic I suppos. :P < 1316522914 534743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1316522932 265053 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no see I think it would be interesting to have a well-type scripting language of that nature... < 1316522938 252832 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well-typed < 1316522975 408561 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see what you're saying. < 1316523042 8732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am saying that it would not work to implement that in haskell. < 1316523284 13905 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not with vaults < 1316523289 636623 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm pretty sure it would be possible. < 1316523861 414860 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if someone offered you 1 million per year for the rest of your life to work on a massive piece of software written entirely in perl < 1316523864 693606 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you accept the offer? < 1316523878 458498 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 million being US dollars < 1316523892 5579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the hours like? < 1316523899 788831 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude I don't I just made up this example. < 1316523907 404977 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS ISN'T REAL. < 1316523921 635895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> uh, 36 hours a week? < 1316523925 983443 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1316523929 652752 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :FREELANCE < 1316523933 247072 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :set your own hours/ < 1316523938 58233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I N S U F F I C I E N T D A T A F O R M E A N I N G F U L A N S W E R < 1316523944 727353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set my hours at 0/wk < 1316523945 932595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1316523960 331505 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see... it doesn't work that way < 1316523992 599984 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically speaking in a freelance situatons you wouldn't be paid by year it would by hour or piecework. < 1316524002 252806 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's a perl OS < 1316524002 421430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked me to set my own hours; I set my own hours. < 1316524008 105554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an emphasis on efficiency. < 1316524019 904322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are worse languages to write an OS in than Perl. < 1316524022 148492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C, for instance. < 1316524035 193388 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, perl is written in C. < 1316524037 758340 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it worse if you're emphasizing efficiency? I think not. < 1316524051 698325 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl being < 1316524054 957537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably CLOSE < 1316524060 421335 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to one of the slowest languages in common use. < 1316524099 989155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: So? < 1316524110 72836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean the Perl OS would use a Perl implementation written in C. < 1316524114 440742 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "dude man everything is machine code. now what?" < 1316524124 363026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't think Perl is slower than Ruby. < 1316524130 341517 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, you're being paid a million dollars, so you can re-implement perl. < 1316524137 184067 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug-for-bug, I guess < 1316524137 355910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: It's not _that_ hard a task. < 1316524137 698068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was about to object and then I remembered that C is like useless for low-level programming anyway. < 1316524151 932964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Anyway, at least the C would be confined to the Perl implementation. < 1316524155 26984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it was there. < 1316524167 488587 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no such thing as a bug in the perl interpreter < 1316524172 998785 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the perl interpreter is the language spec. < 1316524176 879814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, Perl really is slower than Ruby. And PHP. Ouch. < 1316524183 867156 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1316524189 299002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1316524193 113700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an alphabetical list. < 1316524194 867724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no it isn't. < 1316524199 383778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1316524200 204856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just looked vaguely like one. < 1316524240 160887 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also PHP on the language shootout has fewer bytes of code on average. < 1316524253 129550 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to standard libraries < 1316524259 115339 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is the smallest in that measure. < 1316524291 579090 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by Ruby, then I don't remember what... < 1316524293 468039 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's faster than C. (Assuming you're using CINT.) < 1316524316 416495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CINT? < 1316524332 875053 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that C interpreter. < 1316524333 380976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316524344 589683 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://root.cern.ch/drupal/content/cint < 1316524347 670765 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame the physicists. < 1316524359 821224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1316524363 412003 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is on the lower end of byte counts for the category of "languages that are fast" < 1316524374 352632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remain disappointed in Jafet. < 1316524383 637008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The benchmarks game Haskell code is terribly over-large. < 1316524387 436438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ridiculously microoptimised. < 1316524388 294683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, WTF is with the naked tentacle woman in the corner. < 1316524394 786885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1316524416 21814 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's C submitted as haskell < 1316524421 45905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I was expecting something very different. < 1316524423 273161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those even tentacles. < 1316524427 31430 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live to disappoint. < 1316524427 545517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look like... is she part tree. < 1316524440 533822 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You mean the ROOT logo? < 1316524448 965660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are probably ROOTs. < 1316524454 304969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hur hur hur < 1316524454 483315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah okay. < 1316524456 226981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I was right. < 1316524456 740495 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admit it, you'd root her. < 1316524484 312872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, how, she's all roots from the waist down. < 1316524496 985773 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also Python submitions apparently cheat alot as the top percentile on the performance data for Python is very close to C. < 1316524508 688325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's why they call it rooting. < 1316524517 707292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Am I really participating in this? Shame on you, elliott.) < 1316524531 140831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, rooting for you anyway. < 1316524552 399968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Insert stupid alot joke. < 1316524583 396684 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316524585 105303 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more amused by the star wars scrolling code. < 1316524598 351792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: no but seriously, fix my library problem. < 1316524695 526075 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It seems to be mostly due to the pidigits benchmark, which is basically "from gmpy import mpz" and then a reasonably simple loop. < 1316524715 45174 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm as proficient at programming as Enron had been at underhanded trading. < 1316524728 125416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t readIntAtBase < 1316524728 808384 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `readIntAtBase' < 1316524732 569418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle readBase < 1316524732 757010 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1316524734 125220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle read base < 1316524734 282924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1316524734 967917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle read < 1316524735 134677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude read :: Read a => String -> a < 1316524735 305209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Read read :: Read a => String -> a < 1316524735 323367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Text.Read < 1316524735 991549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle readInt < 1316524736 160809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numeric readInt :: Num a => a -> (Char -> Bool) -> (Char -> Int) -> ReadS a < 1316524736 857947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Char8 readInt :: ByteString -> Maybe (Int, ByteString) < 1316524738 814953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Lazy.Char8 readInt :: ByteString -> Maybe (Int, ByteString) < 1316524820 890375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t showIntAtBase < 1316524821 574214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> (Int -> Char) -> a -> String -> String < 1316524880 979711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t elemIndex < 1316524881 837356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Eq a) => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int < 1316524965 570817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t reads < 1316524966 257063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Read a) => String -> [(a, String)] < 1316525024 717820 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fst . head . readInt 42 ((<42) . ord) ord $ showIntAtBase 42 chr 12345678 "" < 1316525026 270873 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12345678 < 1316525036 200353 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see they like the generic. < 1316525087 535309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1316525095 606191 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showIntAtBase 42 chr 12345678 "" < 1316525096 460937 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\ETX(\SUB\FS\RS" < 1316525099 198229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best encoding. < 1316525126 402266 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall petition we move from base-10 with decimal digits to base-42 in start-of-ascii in all primary schools. < 1316525144 775117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, what's a good bit prefix of SHA-256 < 1316525164 650377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :160 bits is a bit overly long for my tastes, but I'd like to avoid collisions < 1316525168 260948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Gimme a perfect hash algo") < 1316525237 169282 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :id < 1316525408 774211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psht, you're all useless < 1316525440 680774 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take all prime bits of SHA-512. < 1316525446 161023 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's 97 bits.) < 1316525458 186737 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more secure because they're prime. < 1316525469 521601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm do not like you. < 1316525494 58826 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't want collisions, use a block cipher that's larger than the range of the input < 1316525497 822648 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Block ciphers are bijective < 1316525510 808905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to AVOID collisions :P < 1316525512 695102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. not CRC. < 1316525872 746802 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1316525978 87479 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ukuk < 1316526185 307715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gbgb < 1316526751 238103 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1316526754 144658 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFC < 1316527370 308440 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316527803 996963 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316527920 84426 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1316527999 565347 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316528367 69845 :invariable!~root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1316528421 41793 :variable!~root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1316528476 661279 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1316528694 610137 :invariable!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1316528757 639149 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1316528994 485366 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why base 42? < 1316529083 62960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HHGTTG, one presumes. < 1316529128 871157 :variable!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :invariable < 1316529404 322496 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316529565 364403 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1316529584 362989 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all one, one presumes HHGTTG < 1316529642 594778 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of nutter would talk about the number 42 without reference to HHGTTG.. lets (sic) check on wikipedia and wolframalpha to find out < 1316529860 590021 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Gutenberg Bible is also known as the "42-line Bible", as the book contained 42 lines per page. < 1316529918 58846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Win32 API, ShellExecute always return 42 as its result. < 1316530051 135638 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popular gadget magazine 'Stuff' did not produce an issue numbered 42, in honor of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, instead, the 41st issue was followed by the 43rd. < 1316530052 652049 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also glibc memfrob. < 1316530093 278247 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're extremely geeky for knowing that unless you saw the wiki < 1316530094 653496 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1316530115 222391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remembered about memfrob when it was mentioned < 1316530115 569867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :says the guy in #esoteric < 1316530120 392542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably wouldn't have remembered unprompted < 1316530132 410367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was that row over strfry, I remember < 1316530143 189066 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've run across memfrob earlier, though not quite sure in which context. I did check the man page that it was 42 first, though. < 1316530163 721368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: its intended purpose is to prevent strings being visible to strings, isn't it? < 1316530419 480086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 42 was picked because out of the numbers that do that well, it was the best reference < 1316530730 600755 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1316530960 864626 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316530968 302038 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316531658 894155 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1316531919 290127 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329e45.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316532046 122543 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316532052 886323 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316532068 306417 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316532072 900536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> Maybe b < 1316532073 250514 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Just :: a -> Maybe a < 1316532073 418033 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe Just :: a -> Maybe a < 1316532073 436064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1316532078 629829 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> Maybe a < 1316532078 968280 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Just :: a -> Maybe a < 1316532079 141134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe Just :: a -> Maybe a < 1316532079 159265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative pure :: Applicative f => a -> f a < 1316532081 741628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1316532217 877228 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something wrong with those options? :-P < 1316532314 658026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So I was thinking < 1316532322 19284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have functors, bifunctors, trifunctors < 1316532325 104410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we need now is nilfunctors < 1316532330 231091 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh also < 1316532333 29213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Nilfunctor f where nilfmap :: f -> f < 1316532334 32408 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're doing that tuple shiznit < 1316532344 302964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Nilfunctor f) => Nilpointed f where nilpure :: f < 1316532353 891818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Nilfunctor f) => Nilapply f where nilap :: f -> f -> f < 1316532379 756729 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to note that evidently I don't want *ifunctors https://github.com/ekmett/bifunctors/issues/1 < 1316532414 734167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I find ekmett's argument unconvincing since tuples don't even follow the laws of tuples in Haskell < 1316532434 153244 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso < 1316532480 678489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fst p, snd p) = p < 1316532504 41968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-eager-languages-dont-have-products.html#comment-201436254 plus surrounding post and original post and blah blah blah < 1316532547 49016 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (fst p, snd p) = p < 1316532548 793724 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do have (fst p, snd p) == p, no? :-P < 1316532554 439130 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this something Haskell doesn't do? < 1316532561 664968 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, _|_ /= (_|_, _|_) duh < 1316532567 206779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yeah. < 1316532586 705889 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, um < 1316532605 426498 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might not be such a relevant "law of tuples" :-P < 1316532624 135352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is < 1316532639 604513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without that, it's not a proper product type < 1316532658 83382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is that we generally settle for the more useful over the more correct when _|_ is involved since we're fucked from the start anyway :P < 1316532804 576149 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, what *should* that do, then? < 1316532837 988985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should what do < 1316532923 346209 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, um < 1316532948 509135 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah well fuck you. _|_ < 1316532951 407370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under what circumstances does (_|_,_|_) /= _|_ < 1316532965 780207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under Haskell semantics? < 1316532970 22225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_|_,_|_) `seq` x = x < 1316532973 155911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ `seq` x = _|_ < 1316533000 25583 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit seq. < 1316533027 15061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would apply even without seq < 1316533031 291113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (x,y) = True < 1316533034 591094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (_|_,_|_) = True < 1316533037 155551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f _|_ = _|_ < 1316533048 158844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are asking for a strict language, basically < 1316533190 7389 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeee partial orders < 1316533203 570084 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which < 1316533215 589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can find that article. < 1316533262 334954 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.ezyang.com/2010/12/hussling-haskell-types-into-hasse-diagrams/ < 1316533275 163209 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :was quite enlightening. < 1316534055 485402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been better if it were written by Andrew Hussie < 1316534066 483400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: edwardk is in #haskell now; I think you have to fight him to the death < 1316534067 344861 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be "Hussie Hussling Haskell types into Hasse diagrams" < 1316534299 873150 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_|_) fat ass < 1316534361 149846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So 'bout them nilfunctors < 1316534628 352775 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316534751 413236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I guess if bifunctors aren't suitable, I could just implement my own in the package, thus at least trying to live up to the ridiculously overgeneric "combinators" name :P < 1316534800 3538 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinator monad for combinator combinators. < 1316534844 665179 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) . (.) . (.) < 1316534845 496891 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 (f2 a)) -> f (f1 (f2 b)) < 1316534859 535778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) . (.) . (.) . ($) < 1316534860 389141 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 (f2 a)) -> f (f1 (f2 b)) < 1316534868 621914 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($) . (.) . (.) . (.) < 1316534869 462924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *) a b (f2 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 (f2 a)) -> f (f1 (f2 b)) < 1316534879 218381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1316536174 790448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You wouldn't happen to know what to do if an FFI library fails to load one of its .o because of an unknown symbol in the bytecode interpreter (i.e. GHCi, Template Haskell) but works just fine with the compiler? < 1316536184 925334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be related to building a shared version, and I know you do that, so :-P < 1316536255 867129 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316536274 735999 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1316536439 576647 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, spam < 1316536457 948902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I know, I see every change via RSS < 1316536477 329801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beat him to it, ha ha ha < 1316536486 66283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't matter, my userpage suggests reporting spam on IRC < 1316536489 338978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's faster than the RSS < 1316536490 708746 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's one I can fix < 1316536496 182125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: too late < 1316536502 338850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: darn :D < 1316536504 222711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I think elliott already reverted it < 1316536566 872906 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop's clock is drifting west < 1316536592 212192 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I now have a google plus account < 1316536648 355572 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what time is it? < 1316536656 42158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1316536656 387085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is Tue Sep 20 17:38:03 < 1316536669 732486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thanks < 1316536691 241972 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, my laptop is drifting < 1316536697 55049 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's two hours fast < 1316536717 419620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntp < 1316536738 881614 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It thinks Hexham's in... Israel? So I have to say I'm in the middle of the Atlantic to compensate < 1316536793 256635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1316536793 274846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Hexham everywhere. < 1316536798 907044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What thinks that exactly < 1316536858 36393 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham is where the heart is. <- An old Chinese proverb. < 1316536926 606649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily. < 1316536930 768098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fizzie, fix my library issue. < 1316537118 490542 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. *zap*. Should be fixed now. < 1316537129 101906 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> Maybe a < 1316537129 441099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe listToMaybe :: [a] -> Maybe a < 1316537129 616822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List find :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1316537129 634934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude head :: [a] -> a < 1316537143 319351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not fixed. Pls fix better. < 1316537172 242289 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Doublezap*. < 1316537211 980091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Pls fix with analytical logical skills not zapping < 1316537224 327754 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about your library issue. < 1316537227 749335 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But recompile it anyhow. < 1316537234 81583 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forall it. < 1316537235 622138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I did that. < 1316537316 611300 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316537916 35949 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ghost ride the whip. < 1316537957 898294 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chinese eh.. < 1316537972 758115 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to look into itidus21's ebook folder of doom < 1316537990 228918 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoerotic fiction < 1316537996 248855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about cars in love. < 1316538006 847743 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a movie < 1316538013 691551 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :starring owen wilson < 1316538057 61969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made by Pixar, noted autopornographers. < 1316538247 460932 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :random ebook.. random passage < 1316538297 99290 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A man of the State of Cheng was one day gathering fuel, when he came across a startled deer, which he pursued and killed. < 1316538341 936850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fearing lest anyone should see him, he hastily concealed the carcass in a ditch and covered it with plaintain-leaves, rejoicing excessively at his good fortune. < 1316538379 296982 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By-and-by, he forgot the place where he had put it; and, thinking he must have been dreaming, he set off towards his home, humming over the affair on his way. < 1316538402 283058 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(agh.. this story is longer on the next page than i anticipiated) < 1316538431 721615 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316538500 428078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, comment. < 1316538500 603761 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what the hell was that? my, that just made you disappear" and stuff? < 1316538539 824677 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, don't make me disappear! < 1316538539 996119 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and in time, though prone to do this < 1316538550 105833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do *what*? < 1316538550 263407 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: like a very clear mirror < 1316538557 132048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, yes? < 1316538557 481109 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this is it, like an apple or a brain that is more useful card combinations. but ever since john started punching cards, you've been contemplating what could this birthday get any better in that quadrant. < 1316538598 522179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, yes. Yes it could. < 1316538913 660853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: q < 1316538914 687698 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: document modified: jervas. in that second all that had occurred, and wrapped with care to prevent further damage. they were < 1316538922 928080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1316538923 94003 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1316538932 411149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict that was Phantom_Hoover. < 1316538943 910709 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict a riot. < 1316538959 200420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That riot was Phantom_Hoover predicts i < 1316538960 531587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That riot was Phantom_Hoover predicts I. < 1316538962 421093 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict an edict. < 1316538996 562498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: https://github.com/phonohawk/HsOpenSSL/issues/3 Make this be fixed quickly, thanks < 1316538998 106647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Deewiant < 1316538999 476197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Phantom_Hoover < 1316539005 360546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's pool our resources together here to fix it with power < 1316539005 702558 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predict a tciderpi. < 1316539119 735555 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, rename it to McHost. < 1316539194 225451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Rename what. < 1316539195 428619 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316539209 163066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mchost. < 1316539213 118840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why. < 1316539224 924335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To show respect to the Scottish community. < 1316539230 121104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1316539231 490496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1316539235 599050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RACIST < 1316539285 463232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I hate Scots. < 1316539298 732039 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do? < 1316539299 580853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1316539357 380133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will call the Scottish Defence League, who are apparently an offshoot of the English Defence League and therefore fail at being Scottish. < 1316539405 765750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahaha < 1316539438 173753 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, any organisation called the Scottish Defence League should be beating up English people, what other point would there be? < 1316539506 110553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I mean, any organisation called the Scottish Defence League should be beating up English people, what other point would there be? < 1316539507 846317 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :675) I mean, any organisation called the Scottish Defence League should be beating up English people, what other point would there be? < 1316539509 361945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1316539509 703505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1316539510 58998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1316539510 227805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1316539510 562753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1316539512 662186 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :483) btw i saw my first prostitute about a week ago < 1316539512 875944 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :59) I think hamsters cannot be inert. < 1316539513 15130 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :345) wow, thinkgeek really makes me hate being alive < 1316539513 770550 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :98) Ah, vulva. What is that, anyway? < 1316539514 193459 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :32) after all, what are DVD players for? < 1316539527 265665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, we have not got 345 for a while... < 1316539529 477938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least i do not recall it < 1316539532 925474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs really makes me hate being alive < 1316539540 926889 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31406 < 1316539547 955743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people thing 32 is so funny? < 1316539548 296094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote `pastelogs really makes me hate being alive < 1316539550 53624 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :676) `pastelogs really makes me hate being alive < 1316539557 881743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat, it was never added? < 1316539560 620389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31406 ???????? < 1316539562 504710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they do? < 1316539566 134361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember 345 < 1316539570 36224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, fair enough < 1316539573 966791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neither does clog/glogbot < 1316539576 374392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone thought it was funny enough to add < 1316539577 734272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have never been added < 1316539583 893174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that was me :) < 1316539588 855965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps Gregor edited the file directly in hg < 1316539590 909762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I distinctly recall him saying it, so `pastelogs or glogbot is broken. < 1316539602 204118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi Gregor < 1316539607 171120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That was from the time of clog I think < 1316539611 272393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe clog was just down < 1316539689 915979 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316539704 466173 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316539872 809560 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I periodically reboot the environment (whenever people start stuffing a bunch of garbage in there and .hg gets to be 100s of megs ... ) < 1316539893 893708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Um, I'm talking about `pastelogs missing log entries < 1316539898 524374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's probably just from a time when clog was down < 1316539898 694054 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1316539905 888658 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably :P < 1316539906 574301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then we were really lucky to never get it random-quoted until now < 1316539924 966316 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spose I could look through my own logs, but I'm not going to :P < 1316539955 700237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So lame. < 1316540441 617158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, it's interesting that modifying history is a part of the darcs workflow < 1316540458 75309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which history? < 1316540461 840538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when patches were added? < 1316540465 932553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's modified, so much as not tracked < 1316540466 805732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :amend-record < 1316540472 277644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1316540493 840944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's a case of copyediting a history book before it's published < 1316540519 415344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed; I'm having changed opinions about modifying history recently < 1316540526 365836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eliminating merge commits and the like is ridiculous < 1316540560 69107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but turning five terrible unatomic out-of-order commits with later commits bugfixing earlier ones into a sequence of reasonable ones before pushing sounds perfectly reasonable < 1316540586 806786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not really modifying history, because you could have just not committed them in the first place < 1316540592 793075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reordered before committing < 1316540708 880334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what I think might be interesting, is removing the arbitrary restriction there of "before you push" < 1316540719 676925 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316540731 307439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the restriction is there essentially because it's OK for you to change your own idea of history, since it's basically a scrap working space, but you can't change what other people see after the fact < 1316540748 990607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1316540752 340054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why shouldn't you be able to merge a trivial typofix into the original commit after an intervening pushed commit? < 1316540755 76379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what you need is patch-patches < 1316540756 305801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sg, the modification would be by adding a correction patch < 1316540758 159196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :patches that modify patches < 1316540770 902170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought of that already, it'd just be a patchset {original patch, other changes} < 1316540773 945656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can still destructively edit history locally, because it's scrap space < 1316540774 800389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which contained the new metadata < 1316540778 737128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after the fact, you can nondestructively edit it < 1316540788 1510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need to be able to remove changes too < 1316540798 809777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's more elegant if you define a proper change type for each change type < 1316540798 978928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the same as darcs rollback < 1316540806 338216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than hacking it in as a special case < 1316540820 886236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's changetypes for files (lists of lines), directories (sets of directory entries), why not for changes (a recursive ADT)? < 1316540860 904110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's kind of like a zipper < 1316540869 976191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that you can turn an arbitrarily-nested change into a list of sequential changes (actions) that create it < 1316540883 319841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you can do the same with a directory tree < 1316540944 264412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh dear, this provides all the tools to retroactively modify a change from the beginning of time < 1316540954 711939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws the idea into the Feather pile
< 1316540962 963769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd conflict if that did anything bad < 1316540972 127247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So arbitrary :P < 1316540993 870904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not arbitrary, that's how I defined "anything bad" just now < 1316541005 352463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAH < 1316541121 409051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, what's the result of applying the change EOF to a file? < 1316541137 415701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "the change EOF" < 1316541137 729019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trick question) < 1316541143 719797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: changes are defined recursively < 1316541150 292236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a start of file and end of file change < 1316541151 296372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each file < 1316541154 893531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can insert between them, etc. < 1316541165 840264 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything should be defined recursively < 1316541180 912317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right, but the SOF/EOF "changes" only exist for their names < 1316541184 847611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can't be applied to anything < 1316541242 214530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suggest that instead, "insert LINE between A and B" doesn't have A and B be changerefs < 1316541248 720573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SOF | changeref and EOF | changeref < 1316541254 719751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason for them to be actual changes < 1316541269 145436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just special values for ranges < 1316541270 896372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, insert LINE between SOF and EOF doesn't identify the file at all < 1316541282 361965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SOF dirchangeref | changeref and EOF dirchangeref | changeref < 1316541283 902940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm OK with changeref | SOF of changeref-representing-file < 1316541289 207659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you knew what I meant, I was using the simplified one-file model < 1316541289 721462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, agreed < 1316541292 285445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1316541309 758693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also nice because you can't "delete EOF" or "insert X between EOF and SOF" or anything ridiculous like that < 1316541351 200509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, git is a rather high-maintenance VCS... < 1316541363 52061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to darcs where you generally just record, record, record, and then cry if you get a conflict < 1316541375 584084 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is the best VCS, also compiler, and minecraft proxy. < 1316541377 335603 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1316541381 101249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in git I'm constantly rebasing and amending and writing commit messages < 1316541383 500244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1316541393 604065 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :those blasted commit messages. < 1316541399 76704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone really needs to rewrite "darcs record" using git as a backend < 1316541400 101838 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-m "AAAAAAH DON'T CARE" < 1316541402 671554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :git add -p is not very nice < 1316541469 939806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, do you have any ideas wrt binary files in sg? < 1316541479 8597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure the recursive change model really works for binary files < 1316541490 317371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't automatically merge any two changes to a binary file at all < 1316541552 34715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sg should ideally understand the format of the file, but for application/octet-stream (i.e. when it doesn't), it should be "replace entire file contents HASH with VALUE", I think < 1316541588 511708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ideally, but in practice "list of lines" and "binary blob" seem to be the most useful solution < 1316541595 396006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :until someone writes a wonderful language-aware thing < 1316541608 968065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'd love it to be diffing on ASTs eventually < 1316541609 130049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it should probably use an existing binary diff algorithm < 1316541615 810490 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316541616 322562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a named change to base it off of < 1316541620 262285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just an optimisation, naturally < 1316541622 825010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just for optimisation? < 1316541623 857176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantics are exactly the same < 1316541624 538569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with that < 1316541652 439984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one question is how to distinguish them; the VCS has to know which files are binary and which are text, and it would be nice if it didn't just guess based on what the file looks like right now < 1316541688 954867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest that as well as "create directory named X in Y" and "create file named X in Y", there's "create binary file named X in Y" < 1316541705 36073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sg guesses for a new file based on its contents < 1316541707 602263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can override that decision < 1316541724 449458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want a binary file to suddenly be a text file for some reason, you just delete it and recreate it with the same contents, no overlap < 1316541724 467455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sounds about right < 1316541728 701717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the changes are incompatible < 1316541734 705703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about svn:eol-type? < 1316541740 884309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, will sg have anything corresponding to that?) < 1316541764 843776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, what does that do, again? < 1316541773 660580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously for text files, sg should convert from/to platform newlines < 1316541779 311845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll have to do that anyway, to make sense of anything < 1316541819 418875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it does < 1316541829 233593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how will my answer help you? :-P < 1316541851 166325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"svn:eol-style < 1316541851 184627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes the client convert end-of-line characters in text files. Used when the working copy is needed with a specific EOL style. "native" is commonly used, so that EOLs match the user's OS EOL style. Repositories may require this property on all files to prevent inconsistent line endings, which can cause a problem in itself." < 1316541860 969057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, doesn't apply to sg < 1316541867 552817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's used to hack up binary mode files in svn < 1316541871 515760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, seems about right < 1316541977 27813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: speaking of sg, I ran into the Debian renaming ack to ack-grep thing you mentioned today < 1316541983 870660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was trying to install a nicer diff tool) < 1316542002 352871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have an alias in my .bashrc < 1316542015 548884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :disappointed in your lack of reaction to second line < 1316542022 561953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, diff? < 1316542027 526550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1316542030 258845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had "I never said I /succeeded/" all lined up and all, too < 1316542038 133725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1316542046 388234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply forgot that ack was a super-duper highlighting auto-excluding grepper, rather than a super-duper highlighting auto-excluding differ < 1316542054 266263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to work out how to diff using a grep-alike < 1316542064 414769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ack really isn't a grepper, it's a Perl regex matcher < 1316542079 276088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do any of the stuff I expect greps to do internally, like optimising fixed-string matches < 1316542092 963801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcregrep ends with grep < 1316542105 486505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a shame < 1316542109 88916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl regexps are a shame :( < 1316542123 455632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcregrep I like because at least it's honest < 1316542130 306296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1316542136 804506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a grep-alike made using PCRE < 1316542146 83724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get much more descriptive than that < 1316542148 784745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1316542152 730705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ack is a grep-alike made using Perl < 1316542183 979276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder how efficient it would be to do regexp matching by converting the regexp to a CFG, then applying derivative-based parsing < 1316542208 790184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still worst-case exponential as with backtracking regexps, but it does far better than that in basically all practice, unlike backtracking regexps < 1316542231 427559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you can't convert backrefs to CFGs can you in general? < 1316542233 766699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm wrong < 1316542242 890976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1316542261 545341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds wrong, backrefs are not very context-free after all < 1316542275 410278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1316542278 830746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you said CSGs < 1316542284 142821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and couldn't work it out mentally < 1316542292 355071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFGs = "normal" regexps, right? < 1316542305 557900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFG = yacc input, but without all the restrictions that yacc rejects < 1316542308 964844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can be done in linear time by compiling them into nondeterministic FSMs < 1316542313 244756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1316542316 839351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right, I see < 1316542337 88901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK derivative-based parsing only works for (any) CFG, not CSGs... well, maybe it can be generalised, but I don't know that it has been done < 1316542347 747019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1316542397 824923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have my driving license :D < 1316542414 105102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and ten billion other people in the world < 1316542416 137738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? finlan < 1316542417 336982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? finland < 1316542417 569500 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :finlan? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1316542418 905697 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least five of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. < 1316542445 279201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, darcs' suggested solution for managing symlinks is amazing < 1316542448 693389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :create a script < 1316542450 77647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s foo/quux bar < 1316542450 95643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s foo/wibble wibble2 < 1316542451 788231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't think our learndb is all that sensible < 1316542452 129651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then add it as a posthook < 1316542459 280776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's beautifully ridiculous < 1316542471 135695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now if only they took it to its conclusion, and used it to generate the entire tree < 1316542472 189638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs' treatment of the u+x bit is ridiculous enough < 1316542479 865549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/conclusion/(il)logical conclusion/ < 1316542483 113618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, our learndb isn't meant to be sensible < 1316542484 995709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how does it treat it? < 1316542522 310143 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1316542575 391129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't < 1316542578 814839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1316542584 470648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1316542588 58469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the other +x bits? < 1316542663 50621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not those either, but that's less bad < 1316542680 846261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's u again? < 1316542686 324820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :owner < 1316542690 603134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1316542697 616278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should really use octal permissions :) < 1316542862 947440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, we should clearly use ACLs < 1316542880 83529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I think semantically, we should only track executable/readable/writable < 1316542899 932833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether to track to-world separately from to-user; we shouldn't track to-group < 1316542967 25348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the best at the world. < 1316542974 438489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win the game. < 1316542978 548450 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fight snakes < 1316543049 885295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was just going to go with tracking the three-digit octal for sg < 1316543087 952889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess tracking group permissions is a bit silly, but what if you want to version /etc? < 1316543091 717711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your dotfiles? < 1316543126 160249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, it depends on whether sg's meant to be used for one user, or across systems < 1316543134 32708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not both? < 1316543145 192133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, it should track all the permissions, together with user and group authorship, but only restore them if on the same system < 1316543150 335163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or same user on same system < 1316543157 184855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross :P < 1316543189 209167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm tempted to say that if we don't track group permissions, we shouldn't track permissions at all < 1316543203 84273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but +x/-x is really necessary to track, so that's a bad solution < 1316543209 76094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we should track group permissions ;-) < 1316543239 765519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but group permissions aren't even meaningful on, say, Windows (which uses ACLs instead), or @ (which uses capabilities), or FeatherOS (which doesn't implement them because you really expect me to write that too?) < 1316543271 822257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way anything we do will work on @ well at all < 1316543275 743996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no point considering it < 1316543287 888508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Windows, I think we should just emulate POSIX semantics as much as we can < 1316543290 967004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want symlinks, after all < 1316543306 282114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think we should be modelling some sideset of a POSIX filesystem < 1316543327 809566 :boily!~boily@208.88.110.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1316543329 319792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all the stupid ACLs and xattrs and blah blah blah, so a subset, but maybe a slightly different structure will emerge on a technicality, so superset, so sideset :P < 1316543346 152079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has symlinks-to-executables (.lnk), and hardlinks (junctions) < 1316543355 942379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1316543362 968067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the user will have to configure sg to do as they wish < 1316543362 986213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has SElinux permissions < 1316543371 931294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your point here? < 1316543400 418146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that going on the UNIX model just because it's the UNIX model seems a surprising thing to do < 1316543421 638469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we agreed to use POSIX semantics ages ago, you know < 1316543425 236689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1316543429 952647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to remember why < 1316543436 190254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we trying to implement sg in a way that's useful to us and others, or The Perfect Scapegoat? < 1316543449 369256 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1316543451 991647 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows post-Vista also has straight symlinks. < 1316543459 307534 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :practical = good < 1316543459 649940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to version symlinks, I want to version executable scripts, and I'm likely to want to version /etc and dotfiles too < 1316543486 873803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should I have to miss out on that just because Windows doesn't commonly do it? < 1316543489 602676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's tons of solutions to that < 1316543527 809211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :argument against portability: some operating systems suck. < 1316543536 709948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think we should track setuid/setgid or the like because those are attributes of system executables, not user-edited files) < 1316543562 570113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose you could make an argument for tracking the weird setgid directory behaviour, but (a) it's awful and (b) it's more of a system setting than an attribute of the directory anyway) < 1316543653 133106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FWIW, I'm willing to compromise down to just tracking rwx on user/group < 1316543655 358630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1316543656 554271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FWIW, I'm willing to compromise down to just tracking rwx on user/world < 1316543660 412413 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should track those weird metadata attribute things Window has. < 1316543662 506257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure it's the best choice < 1316543671 256887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about sticky bit on directories? < 1316543677 592906 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't think there's anyway to expose them besides knowing the key name. < 1316543680 157012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ais523: let's track Mac OS Classic resource forks < 1316543683 585341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (I suppose you could make an argument for tracking the weird setgid directory behaviour, but (a) it's awful and (b) it's more of a system setting than an attribute of the directory anyway) < 1316543689 58738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just pretend it doesn't exist < 1316543691 968108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it Linux-specific, too? < 1316543692 823457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :setgid on directories != sticky on directories < 1316543698 650096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're two entirely different behaviours < 1316543704 346618 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Resource forks aren't Mac OS Classic-specific. < 1316543708 490701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, hmm < 1316543709 18093 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTFS also has resource forks. < 1316543709 858576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both exist on more than UNIX, although one's standard and one's a subset of Unices < 1316543713 625786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I meant sticky < 1316543729 710704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but I don't want to track /those/ lame things < 1316543740 676387 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man why does Lifehacker keep talking about Windows 8 < 1316543749 748739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man why do you keep reading Lifehacker < 1316543753 684284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything gawker puts out at all < 1316543759 326020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+dt: files in the directory cannot be renamed/deleted by non-owners; +d,g+s: files in the directory are created with the same group as the directory, not the same group as their owner < 1316543771 661699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, my opinion is: gross < 1316543790 877567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's model an /idealised/ POSIX filesystem :P < 1316543820 162735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders how much TWENTY FIVE, FIVE MILLION is
< 1316543826 157332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316543832 14477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was written in figures, too, as 25.5 000 000 < 1316543836 976333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spam I received) < 1316543847 76916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of... units < 1316543858 819492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the 419 spammers are offering a nonexistent number of dollars < 1316543865 156872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the hope that people assume it's a lot < 1316543866 693241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true for all of them < 1316543924 856074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, normally it's the dollars that don't exist < 1316543939 250042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, it's not just the dollars that don't exist, but the number of dollars that were claimed to exist isn't even a real number < 1316543941 478657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1316543947 979094 :ive!~nn@189.179.246.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316543959 349690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe they're offering 25 + 5000000i dollars < 1316543961 577139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not real, after al < 1316543961 923304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1316543978 77746 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's $25 < 1316543980 131062 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1316543983 210622 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use that. < 1316543988 921182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe $25, 50¢ < 1316543996 965434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo $25 < 1316544000 47665 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could buy like, maybe 20 packs of sour punch straws < 1316544003 640228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or £25, 5000000¢ < 1316544005 9059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at absolutely no cost to me. < 1316544053 812094 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cents are easily represented by a decimal number though < 1316544057 921080 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$25.50 < 1316544072 812631 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think imaginary dollars are just dollars that are offered but don't exist. < 1316544077 261749 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1316544077 355889 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316544079 828085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 25.5 000 000 (TWENTY FIVE, FIVE MILLION) is not a real number! < 1316544089 758574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if only zzo38 were here < 1316544098 832241 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is. < 1316544109 468424 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in someone's number system < 1316544113 216663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's meaningful. < 1316544119 196043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those aren't reals < 1316544149 863279 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah I'm looking at pixels. < 1316544182 318374 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1316544190 678611 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom's tits aren't reals. < 1316544193 759293 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAM < 1316544214 339043 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that, perhaps < 1316544219 129958 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the day progresses < 1316544231 472834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will just progressively make less sense. < 1316544235 337468 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316544308 458032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assure you that is impossible < 1316544322 499250 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cherry-pick '(cake-prophet)) (load "cakeprophet.l") (/cherry-pick) < 1316544348 884844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: gah, you can't mix Lisp and XML like that, it's a horror < 1316544356 70377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, someone make an esolang with syntax that works like that < 1316544362 62271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd manage to offend absolutely everyone < 1316544373 680838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SgeoN1 actually implemented that thing < 1316544375 406361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was awful < 1316544379 346070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cherry-pick) < 1316544392 656532 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> I actually wrote functions named that < 1316544403 492814 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316544409 807148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you think of replacement-for-B, btw? it seems to be gradually starting < 1316544414 98748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I've pulled a Wooble already < 1316544419 939041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it looks boring < 1316544426 638675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like most of latter-day B < 1316544432 244493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, indeed < 1316544433 619234 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacement-for-B? < 1316544437 949268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it'll sort itself out in a while, though < 1316544437 967575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: nomic < 1316544440 908965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: B is a nomic < 1316544442 930181 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I write < 1316544447 202178 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1316544452 169123 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum ls / length ls < 1316544453 570582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which most people seem to think is dead or at least permanently fossilised < 1316544457 991806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd probably unsubscribed from the nomic lists by now if I weren't a packrat < 1316544463 829414 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the compiler reduce that to one recursive traversal of ls? < 1316544465 195341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have a Nomicron label right after B < 1316544472 410822 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1316544473 795126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: maybe, if there's a rule for it. < 1316544475 851888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in general though. < 1316544485 269638 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a nice feature. < 1316544486 467617 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if possible. < 1316544491 428743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what rules _are_. < 1316544513 74381 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I saw a better way to set it up. Should make the end-user API more convenient though, and leave these as locally used things < 1316544515 86037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it and peek at the core < 1316544547 611588 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules are... nice features? I'm confused. I was saying that being able to reduce such things in general would be a nice feature. < 1316544559 765440 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not with any data structures but with lists as a special case perhaps. < 1316544564 216441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what rules are for. < 1316544564 496895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it could be done with any structure. < 1316544566 609165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what rules are for. < 1316544580 482739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only question is whether there's a rule that kicks in for that case < 1316544583 911841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules are for in general reducing multiple traversals into one? no they're not. < 1316544593 667389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what rules are < 1316544595 891641 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1316544598 299591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1316544603 254642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing challenge: write the smallest possible lambda calculus self-compile-and-runner (i.e. interpreter with eigenratio 1, cheating is allowed) < 1316544615 440637 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're talking about something like {- RULE ... -} right? < 1316544623 309974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: \x.x < 1316544637 884996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: input is a church list of church numerals < 1316544641 667905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a function < 1316544646 956559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes. and if you don't think its whole purpose is to allow seemingly inefficient multiple traversals to compile down to low-level loops, you are wrong. < 1316544657 230314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why mix parsing into the equation? < 1316544658 914332 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're completely ignoring what I'm talking about. < 1316544660 822826 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am saying < 1316544666 336412 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was so horrible about cherry-pick? < 1316544669 244504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use the Church or Scott-Mogensen encoding of the de Bruijn LC syntax < 1316544670 236662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because that's the whole point of the exercise < 1316544671 262260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather asking, or wondering < 1316544676 54373 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can be done IN GENERAL < 1316544676 737889 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1316544679 320224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1316544679 648679 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with specific rules. < 1316544681 703119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the boring aprt < 1316544682 396948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :part < 1316544701 560369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm OK with supplying a separate parser into some other Church encoding, I guess < 1316544709 429166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's expressive enough to be able to "unparse" it again < 1316544718 403975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: including parens? < 1316544721 659672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about things like variable names < 1316544731 434054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need to unparse into the same string of characters, just one with the same meaning < 1316544732 963176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: stream fusion is meant to do a lot of it automatically. but it's not ready for primetime < 1316544732 980815 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on. < 1316544737 745415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you're basically asking for a ssc < 1316544741 182163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssc = ? < 1316544742 708530 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a game of Nomic < 1316544743 222308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well that's easy then, I mean representation-wise < 1316544746 309229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sufficiently smart compiler < 1316544755 879235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me figure out the church encoding of de bruijn lc < 1316544757 728876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, but golfed < 1316544781 427066 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, also here's an interesting point I hadn't considered. < 1316544787 761512 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would there really be much of an efficiency gain? < 1316544816 37589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say you have two loops: for(ls){blah} for(ls){blah2} < 1316544823 742473 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now you've combined them into for(ls) {blah;blah2} < 1316544832 654818 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....isn't that pretty much the same in terms of number of instructions? < 1316544835 905428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, there's already (λ11)(λ(λλλ1(λλ1(λ3(6(λ2(6(λλ3(λ123)))(7(λ7(λ31(21))))))(1(5(λ12))(λ7(λ7(λ2(14)))3)))))(11))(λ1((λ11)(λ11))) < 1316544837 954118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose it doesn't /really/ need to be golfed, but it'll be a pain to write otherwise < 1316544840 698221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_lambda_calculus#Lambda_encoding < 1316544857 637933 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's a meager difference I think. < 1316544875 991702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, beautiful, that might be just what I need < 1316544880 304209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: half the branches < 1316544883 694060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next step: do the same, but in continuation passing style < 1316544887 649536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :branches are much more expensive than arithmetic or whatever < 1316544889 17567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll probably have to work on that on my own < 1316544899 626293 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah right. < 1316544908 897198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's quite a trivial problem to write an LC self-interpreter; you obviously want to work with de bruijn < 1316544918 493492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it makes the bound variable structure really simple, just a linked list < 1316544926 572722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you basically only have three cases < 1316544927 602399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd figured out working with that encoding already < 1316544927 942063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's just < 1316544932 563307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by myself < 1316544936 331032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data LC = Var Nat | Lam LC | App LC LC < 1316544936 846200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I didn't know what it was called < 1316544942 642680 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and the savings are even greater for larger numbers of loops. < 1316544943 872544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd forgotten, I knew once) < 1316544948 148493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure? de bruijn is probaly inside out to what you think < 1316544952 770488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\\zero is const id < 1316544954 319092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\\one is const < 1316544959 442327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the innermost lambda's variable is 0 < 1316544961 837710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 loops into one would be a third less branches, and so on. < 1316544962 13711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :second-innermost is one < 1316544962 695390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1316544967 713142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's the way round I meant < 1316544969 765097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of people do it the other way around when inventing their own < 1316544970 793728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright then < 1316544972 853228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that the other way round exists too < 1316544980 39349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, say, S and K are different depending on how nested they are < 1316544988 264465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, if you encode the lambda terms in Church encoding, rather than just simple constructor analysis, I think it simplifies things even more < 1316544991 168736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you get a fold for free < 1316545008 179783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you want to make it a monadic fold, really :) < 1316545010 915924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use the continuation monad < 1316545021 104103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you need to invent your own encoding < 1316545030 346926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CPS version of Church encoding < 1316545035 108292 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :LC is awesome. < 1316545036 670570 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best thing. < 1316545042 852648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I bet oerjan will be able to help with that ;D) < 1316545073 8202 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data? fuck that let's just represent it as code. < 1316545094 418269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know because there's totally a distinction between those two things. < 1316545103 169869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're wrong in a subtle but total way, but I'll leave it to elliott to despair. < 1316545116 839203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1316545159 998481 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I sort of assume this most of the time I say things here. < 1316545180 195774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I think I have something < 1316545186 15270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's the first few naturals in Hird encoding < 1316545186 360475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x k. k x < 1316545186 378338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x k. f x k < 1316545186 378521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x k. f x (\x'. f x' k) < 1316545186 378632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x k. f x (\x'. f x' (\x''. f x'' k)) < 1316545191 394208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, this time it's that you approached the LC thinking of it as a programming language. < 1316545201 634693 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that uh... what I did? < 1316545217 388899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: successor is < 1316545218 754901 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is it wrong to do that? < 1316545221 662012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: succ = \n f x k. n f x (\x'. f x' k) < 1316545224 235988 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it make what I say wrong? < 1316545237 283524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (succ itself returns in usual style, not CPS; but the value it returns is a Hird numeral and therefore CPS in operation) < 1316545241 45063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yes, yes and yes. < 1316545242 587115 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that LC represents data as code. I can't get away with saying that? it's not in any way accurate? < 1316545252 861877 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :code being interpreted quite loosely. < 1316545255 935876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CPS Church numerals? ingenious < 1316545262 820373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true = \a b k. k a < 1316545262 838442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :false = \a b k. k b < 1316545269 704014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this translation seems quite obvious, you just CPS-transform the Church encoding < 1316545275 353801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, Church-encoding can be applied to any ADT < 1316545299 191129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the reason to use Church-encoding rather than just simple "give me a list of functions, one per constructor, and I'll call the right one with all my fields" is that it gives you a fold over the data type for free < 1316545306 33330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it represents types as their fold functions < 1316545308 254632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you need CPS < 1316545309 112702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too good at CPS; I understand it, but it's not intuitive for me < 1316545311 854908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you need a CPS fold < 1316545315 101854 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, the LC predates the existence of programming, let alone code. < 1316545319 558600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ Hird encoding! < 1316545321 90781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes thought < 1316545321 777819 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lambda calculus is a language. You can specify a grammar for it. It computes things. What is a programming language? < 1316545323 657294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, indeed < 1316545331 531279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is Feather-related, btw < 1316545334 484282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed < 1316545335 160495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hadn't already guessed < 1316545336 876315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now to try and figure out the Hird-encoding of the de Bruijn LC < 1316545341 175166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be too hard < 1316545349 448381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, in which case, why would you ever expect a distinction between code and data? < 1316545383 241144 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, in the past I would consider them as distinct things because they seem to intuitively be completely different things. Also in most languages there is a conceptual distinction. < 1316545388 36859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lambda calculus there isn't. < 1316545413 202295 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what makes it awesome, as I said. < 1316545465 952321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, well, I read it more as mocking the lack of a distinction as if the existence of one was a fundamental thing. < 1316545476 903408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apologise if that was not what you meant. < 1316545479 981889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Feather is strictly-evaluated, right? < 1316545485 627856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1316545486 313030 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I do expect a distinction in things that compute other things (I won't say programming language because it is subtley wrong) because it's usually made in some way. < 1316545488 744074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and f is evaluated before x in (f x)? < 1316545494 294026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1316545496 4157 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh... I see how you might have done that. < 1316545501 321563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to think about that one, but it is < 1316545524 278719 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no there isn't a difference. I wasn't saying it was bad. < 1316545559 108687 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a.\b.a is probably the best true ever. < 1316545609 326524 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what better way to encode a boolean than as the computation it's intended to perform. < 1316545679 247561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/hiac < 1316545694 338503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1316545702 62045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION saves local copy
< 1316545705 139602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the "n" used in Var should be a hird numeral too < 1316545711 817274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for consistency, you should encode all data like that :P < 1316545712 633064 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-236-18.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316545713 327005 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-102.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1316545717 979518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :save those lines with it, that's SO IMPORTANT < 1316545723 629968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not actually so important, but let's pretend?? that it is?) < 1316545733 557512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is so important, I guess you could end up losing your evaluation order if you don't do everything CPS < 1316545736 497596 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316545736 515556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides it's cleaner that way < 1316545739 213437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, data has to become something when unboxed < 1316545748 318317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can thread complex CPS computations through an arbitrary data type < 1316545749 646687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s fold < 1316545752 43299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for sanity reasons, changing what it unboxes into retroactively is possibly a bad idea < 1316545761 628101 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels that people on this channel sometimes just assume he doesn't know anything.
< 1316545764 203890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how's that relevant to which natural representation you use? < 1316545765 446845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is probably only possible by retroactively replacing the interp < 1316545775 34961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the idea is say I have an integer, say 6 < 1316545776 402160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an object < 1316545777 770388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just saying use Hird naturals, not Church naturals, for the Var field < 1316545783 324345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1316545786 762126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's more consistent < 1316545791 531085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, 6 # would be the Hird numeral for 6 < 1316545792 906453 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Hird/Hird(tm)/ < 1316545802 683530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't 6 be the Hird numeral for 6? < 1316545830 473704 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1316545860 86097 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're second-class citizens. they shouldn't expect special treatment. < 1316545862 654969 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :filthy peasants. < 1316545889 9969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, um, there's an inconsistency in the examples I gave < 1316545896 712396 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1316545899 987593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"k true"/"k false" is wrong, it should be "true k"/"false k" < 1316545902 725791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm expanding it now though < 1316545907 354103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just grab the updated version when I sprunge it :P < 1316545923 448579 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprunge is a good verb. < 1316545941 422189 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316545952 775498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (note that this means that even the "zero" value passed to a fold is CPS-represented) < 1316545957 236640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to apply it to get it out < 1316545963 726543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's perfectly okay; in fact it's more consistent < 1316545993 756464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1316546111 278942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going to try writing a simple eval (that doesn't expose call/cc to the LC program itself) on hird LC terms < 1316546119 490987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of curiosity < 1316546131 990109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enoguh < 1316546133 529760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enough < 1316546139 200430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think I'll depend on an unwritten fix, because I cba to write out Y :) < 1316546140 917020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is useful esolang progress even if Feather never goes anywhere < 1316546150 664054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just look up Y, can't you? < 1316546153 745343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you have to CPS it too? < 1316546231 543712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, Y probably wouldn't even work < 1316546235 147204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the lambda calculus being used is strict < 1316546242 212571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :primitive fix is nicer, anyway < 1316546245 228266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it permits sharing < 1316546253 637379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although I guess that doesn't really apply to strict languages :/ < 1316546282 67537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell mind virus. strict languages don't care, so why would they share? < 1316546377 60411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'll need to write a strict fix in LC, but it's possible, right (with a Y variant)? < 1316546410 482160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1316546414 915637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works on functions, though < 1316546420 389031 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does Hird LC work? < 1316546442 832268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all I really need is to be able to do recursion < 1316546489 939094 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that solar energy helps power space shuttle missions and provides energy to the Hubbell telescope? Turns out, through the use of solar panels, solar engergy can also provide power to your home. < 1316546494 54446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good website. < 1316546498 842197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well < 1316546520 409595 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1316546532 484834 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott proceeds to explain it in song. < 1316546540 876236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that was my answer < 1316546575 105780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr < 1316546575 961837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b < 1316546586 56150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?djinn ((a -> b -> b) -> b -> b) -> a < 1316546586 228586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1316546591 707819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316546603 188433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?djinn (forall b.(a -> b -> b) -> b -> b) -> a < 1316546603 358515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1316546604 727413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn :P < 1316546605 410489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1316546609 720509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that can't be right because that's just head... < 1316546615 511200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid djinn < 1316546621 873855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it doesn't quite understand recursion :) < 1316546636 126359 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only djinn could write my programs for me. < 1316546993 114535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?djinn (a -> b -> c) -> (b -> a -> c) < 1316546993 248603 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = a c b < 1316547005 228325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl . djinn (a -> b -> c) -> (b -> a -> c) < 1316547005 396454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 1): < 1316547005 569008 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "." < 1316547005 586836 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression < 1316547009 333908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl.djinn (a -> b -> c) -> (b -> a -> c) < 1316547009 504613 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1316547013 780856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I stack commands? < 1316547021 353321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl$djinn (a -> b -> c) -> (b -> a -> c) < 1316547021 563723 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1316547051 345662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/LPMW < 1316547056 310903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?. pl djinn (a -> b -> c) -> (b -> a -> c) < 1316547056 480699 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = flip < 1316547063 26178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: note: does not yet include evaluator :P < 1316547071 757273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, includes a _lot_ of rambling. < 1316547083 570105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, it's not right < 1316547098 492125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one moment < 1316547125 926685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/aEhU < 1316547163 996561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1316547213 973197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I think that LC term structure may be wrong < 1316547217 738439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, if you want to evaluate simply with it < 1316547220 136186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Lam = \e var lam app k. e var lam app (\e'. lam e' k) < 1316547225 101726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that forces the inside of the lambdas < 1316547227 838847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want to tweak it slightly < 1316547505 143681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/DGBd now with eval! < 1316547508 741481 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's D&D beats even the previous one < 1316547509 939419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of a slightly different representation) < 1316547525 48188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this representation can be reified back to syntax fully < 1316547535 328685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the resulting eval is really simple :) < 1316547545 80686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it cheats by encoding Lams in a way that breaks the mechanical rules of Hird encoding < 1316547552 783506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's worth it, because otherwise the CPS wouldn't help at all < 1316547589 520551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1316547591 212034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made another mistake < 1316547605 289855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry ais523 < 1316547606 487836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll fix it < 1316547645 863868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/ENSb < 1316547660 476284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that that eval doesn't expose call/cc to its evaluated expression at all < 1316547662 696424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it would be simple < 1316547696 461706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :either by adding another primitive syntax node CallCC which evaluates to the call/cc function, or by having a top-level eval that passes call/cc to the whole expression which is a function < 1316547702 283609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that latter one sounds more tricky though) < 1316547707 758931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just pass call/cc as an arg < 1316547731 2940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh and both eval and its App case can be trivially eta-reduced there < 1316547777 753402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and no, I think CallCC as a primitive syntax note is simpler < 1316547780 497755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :than passing call/cc as an argument < 1316547786 827346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'm not sure the latter even works < 1316547799 317646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to change the concrete syntax used, though < 1316547807 378178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can just pass the primitive node CallCC in < 1316547816 91520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/SYUJ updated version, with super-compact eval at the end < 1316547827 932317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval = \vs t. t (\n. at n vs) (\e k'. k' (Lam e)) (\f x. f error (eval (Cons x vars)) error) < 1316547838 359282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1316547838 696253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/vars/vs/ < 1316547851 187990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dSKH fixed. again. < 1316547857 44419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that file is now long enough. < 1316547921 734643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now to brb and try and forget I ever got that confused < 1316548076 663755 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have revived my MSPAFA < 1316548123 953475 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1316548144 33533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my bash history is currently full of alternating wget, mv and l commands < 1316548161 238858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely full < 1316548165 860256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many lines worth, anyway < 1316548760 395666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ XOFF ignored, mumble mumble ] < 1316548763 479647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1316548806 988857 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the vital clue to eventually figuring out what it was that occasionally locked up my terminals < 1316548865 641410 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course that problem was much worse before nano introduced that feature... < 1316549320 136280 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, oh god < 1316549395 949362 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1316549624 269154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: back, and heh < 1316549668 936955 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316549706 1843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/PXPS final revision... hopefully :) < 1316549710 502357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : is Norway always icy? < 1316549722 302931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any Norwegians here (oerjan, maybe) care to reply? < 1316549737 542518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway is literally made out of ice. < 1316549809 214266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they have warmer summers than Edinburgh. < 1316549827 709735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1316549833 663518 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316549879 438780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so does a fridge. < 1316549899 13004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is perhaps an exaggeration. < 1316549928 798640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in the great fridge we call "hexham < 1316549929 482605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1316549954 360688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I take it lazy Feather would make no sense whatsoever? < 1316549980 63465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd have the problem of working out when a retroactive change happened < 1316549986 227458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to determine which one happened first) < 1316550015 844755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go by evaluation order? < 1316550016 701050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, what's the nearest city to Hexham. < 1316550044 989071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Newcastle. < 1316550081 990202 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's in Ireland! < 1316550104 432596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeeees. < 1316550123 254390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I thought you'd have a better grasp of geography than that... < 1316550124 298191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, it's worse than Leicester. < 1316550129 652347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has nobody told Phantom_Hoover about the wormhole near Hexham? < 1316550141 460469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leicester is pretty close to Birmingham, at least < 1316550148 331750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, wormholes would really fuck up geology. Maybe. < 1316550153 955065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it extended into the atmosphere. < 1316550156 864039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_West < 1316550161 830294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geography, bitches. < 1316550179 383812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that isn't Newcastle < 1316550186 54635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, are the rumours about Newcastle true? < 1316550198 100107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, all of them. What rumours? < 1316550211 632474 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :newcastle is a beer < 1316550212 802833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it is < 1316550212 820883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly about people having a total disregard for the weather < 1316550225 814506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never wearing more than one level of clothing, or /maybe/ two, no matter what < 1316550242 432552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rarely wearing less than one, either, they aren't /quite/ that mad) < 1316550254 990954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wow, I know Birmingham are used to being the butts of the rumours, but are they really that bad at making up ones in retaliation? < 1316550255 8895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to say 'no, it's Newcastle West', then what Newcastle *are* you referring to? < 1316550272 632035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have no idea whether that is true or not.) < 1316550278 985851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the weirdest rumour I've ever heard though.) < 1316550287 45461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're decent at retaliating, just not against Newcastle < 1316550304 655237 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ooh, what rumours do you have about us? < 1316550309 101269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really seem like an /insulting/ rumour, though < 1316550349 838668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I assume your grasp of Scotland is too granular to distinguish Edinburgh from anywhere else.) < 1316550379 963375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: IIRC, it's that Edinburgh and Glasgow both consider themselves superior for the other, for different reasons < 1316550419 79204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway Newcastle is fully a degree warmer than Edinburgh in the summer so ha. < 1316550441 257691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /Too/ granular? < 1316550460 603183 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I forgot which way granularity went. < 1316550460 941643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : and never wearing more than one level of clothing, or /maybe/ two, no matter what <-- it's true, in newcastle they walk around in their underwear. < 1316550466 591016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Me too. < 1316550474 500694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so that norway, so icy < 1316550482 720234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: occasionally < 1316550502 193822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only occasionally < 1316550513 319816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that is not inconsistent with the rumours < 1316550536 255613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am merely deducing consequences of them < 1316550538 946156 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316550541 908867 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, let's objectivise this. < 1316550551 660909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok. first, A is A. < 1316550558 853988 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often have you had icicles hanging from your nose? < 1316550568 439267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is Norway always icy? < 1316550578 707279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, second, taxes are bad and charity is evil? < 1316550597 232356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: rarely. i'm a neurotical nose wiper. < 1316550603 585191 :ive!~nn@189.179.246.222 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316550618 95743 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, a fellow sufferer! < 1316550618 295827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obsessive, at least. < 1316550638 133323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a cold and my nose is almost rubbed raw. < 1316550645 654237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: know the feeling. < 1316550646 168806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :objectivism is a great joke, it just needs to be less serious < 1316550684 619693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh obsessive nose wiping. that's me too. < 1316550698 246024 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1316550707 313222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone is an obsessive nose wiper < 1316550717 582113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are these noses you speak of < 1316550745 992046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they're these things you have if you're not a stunted Northern midget. < 1316550805 716493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka dorf < 1316550807 271998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, second, taxes are bad and charity is evil? <-- something tells me norway isn't big on objectivism. < 1316550840 481906 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316550841 191284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, you are all fans of floating-point, then. < 1316550857 874565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat < 1316550907 153416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, \exists A \in floats : A \neq A < 1316550916 406729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1316550928 44212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tauist. < 1316550943 457572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tau < 1316550944 140022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `tau' < 1316550944 652327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I need a go-to phrase for "wow you just made that excessively formal to sound smart".) < 1316550950 132040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let tau = 2*pi < 1316550950 821186 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1316550953 900613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1316550954 581095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tau < 1316550954 773092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PURGE < 1316550955 264363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `tau' < 1316550956 464072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUUUUUUURGE < 1316550957 491572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1316550967 424559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let pi = tau/2 < 1316550967 965137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:5: Not in scope: `tau' < 1316550988 992252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I need a go-to phrase for "wow you just made that excessively formal to sound smart".) < 1316551019 470294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I just kind of ended up doing that by accident. < 1316551035 760200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUUUUUUUUUUUUURE < 1316551048 454252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around the \in I had my doubts, and I had serious regrets by the time I got to \neq, but by then it was too late. < 1316551052 896646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bondage and latex < 1316551052 915190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*breaks into Phantom_Hoover's house, finds walls scribbled with proofs of the greater elegance of tau over pi in simple algebraic equations* < 1316551069 297311 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1316551074 972290 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom hoover how could you < 1316551081 488484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sees thick, seemingly-incomplete manuscript in progress, "The Tau Way of Life"* < 1316551082 2299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey, I hate tau just as much as the next sane man! < 1316551092 179477 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the tau of physics. < 1316551103 207623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:22:56: I have this... thing, as a child, and still a little now, where if I didn't put my hand on my chest, I'd be worried about whether or not my heart's still beating < 1316551104 216132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hears sounds from Phantom_Hoover's sleeping mouth, "tauuuu. tauuuuuu. tauuuuuuuuuuuu. full turn. tauuuuuuu."* < 1316551115 181838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know why this is in a file in ~/ < 1316551119 463440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: itym "Tau Te Ching" < 1316551127 510598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sees Phantom_Hoover sleepwalk, go over to the wall, write "I LOVE TAU IT IS BETTER THAN PI AND ALSO GREAT" onto the wall, and then sign it. in triplicate.* < 1316551129 712190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has 22:20:14: All the evidence and our best-accepted theories point to it being finite...so... < 1316551145 66104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Our best-accepted theories point to that file you have being finite. < 1316551170 816685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it is some kind of list of things I meant to respond to for some reason, possibly the Irish Madness. < 1316551184 510333 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And finally 21:01:26: Vorpal, Dwarf Fortress is pretty boring, to be honest. < 1316551193 65532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past me is such a tool. < 1316551202 662939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1316551204 726685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past me, too. < 1316551215 345038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Irish Madness? < 1316551219 448403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log ehird < 1316551223 987937 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-01-27.txt:21:39:40: i much prefer being molested by a unicorn, that is invisible, and pink < 1316551230 579895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316551234 554922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's `log not `quote? < 1316551242 475497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for _now_. < 1316551248 815582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log `addquote < 1316551252 270512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote molested < 1316551252 288617 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-10-26.txt:04:56:30: `addquote im the worst person in the world < 1316551253 764324 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1316551259 138285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log `addquote < 1316551260 336746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we need to add that :P < 1316551262 424327 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-19.txt:09:21:43: `addquote mmm these music samples are still so tasteful < 1316551274 726575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log `addquote < 1316551276 804735 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i much prefer being molested by a unicorn, that is invisible, and pink < 1316551278 62173 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-01-22.txt:16:47:39: `addquote I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed < 1316551278 325430 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :677) i much prefer being molested by a unicorn, that is invisible, and pink < 1316551280 81696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this method, as it gets deleted quotes too < 1316551287 790282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 677 < 1316551289 502479 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1316551291 106705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERASE THE RECORD < 1316551299 685644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log `addquote < 1316551303 225803 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-07-10.txt:23:24:37: `addquote באופן חלופי ביקום זה כרוך כולם מדברים עברית מסיבה כלשהי: אז אני יכול רק להסיק כי הוא פגום, או את העולם, הוא מטורף לגמרי < 1316551319 551629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log `addquote < 1316551322 597409 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-07-26.txt:23:46:01: `addquote Oh I get it you guys just use this space to do nothing ? < 1316551336 219603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we need `context < 1316551341 487154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like `log, but shows a few lines before too < 1316551401 713795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tricky to do while selecting a random quote. maybe make it take that 2010-07-26.txt:23:46:01 thing? < 1316551412 846599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that tricky < 1316551431 347895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to use pastes though < 1316551460 983571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just space-backslash-space as newline? < 1316551493 244466 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1316551521 452278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it wouldn't fit on an irc line < 1316551534 44189 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only hackego could multiple lines.... < 1316551562 895509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : BAD,E < 1316551566 319728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : BAD,E JUJU < 1316551748 729780 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316551800 119531 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1316551931 489212 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316552052 135713 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I request a page on the wiki for Funge 98? < 1316552066 763354 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an unconnected category "Unimplementable"? < 1316552084 55542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we have a superturing category. Not quite the same, but. < 1316552099 289094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone wants to put in the effort required to make a decent standalone page for Funge-98 itself. < 1316552119 266712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't really much of a paragraph's worth of material in terms of broad strokes, and the details themselves are really complicated. < 1316552121 652402 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have uncomputable i think it is < 1316552141 276705 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does unimplementable mean < 1316552141 385364 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we do < 1316552151 329048 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know < 1316552164 911454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncomputable, I suspect < 1316552175 521767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does uncomputable mean? < 1316552189 559685 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super Turing-complete < 1316552189 803299 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some uncomputable languages are implementable in some other uncomputable languages < 1316552206 745791 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could define a computational class for them! < 1316552211 721558 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, we have a category for those. < 1316552227 495762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their computational classes have already been explored. < 1316552295 298846 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to switch back to my first suggestion, a Funge-98 page < 1316552303 192666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think anyone wants to put in the effort required to make a decent standalone page for Funge-98 itself. < 1316552303 305149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : There isn't really much of a paragraph's worth of material in terms of broad strokes, and the details themselves are really complicated. < 1316552304 198754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1316552330 902816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's maybe three to five people around here who have the sufficient knowledge to write a decent page on it. < 1316552338 261646 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of whom is you < 1316552346 499587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least one of them can't be arsed, and I suspect at least three others can't either. < 1316552368 923301 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will LEARN IT < 1316552372 527728 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And MAKE AN ARTICLE < 1316552380 20731 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good LUCK < 1316552380 745799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1316552380 766711 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1316552385 680965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start by learning from the masters. < 1316552388 105638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, not that masterful.) < 1316552392 40236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, I hope you like fastidious specs. < 1316552441 29635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Anyway, knowing it well enough to program in it isn't really enough to make a decent article on it, because you'll never run into the corner cases that make up the majority of its infamous ambiguity and strangeness. < 1316552445 781603 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :detroppus is a good drow < 1316552449 927613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really have to implement it to get that kind of knowledge. < 1316552460 481411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes < 1316552462 361261 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what corner cases, out of curiosity? < 1316552473 313306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, drows are a kind of elf STEP CAREFULLY MY FRIEND < 1316552545 219640 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOODNIGHT < 1316552549 145129 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-168-58.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: what a big quitter he is, eh? < 1316552560 622267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See: Basically everything Mycology tests that isn't dirt simple. < 1316552592 528781 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1316552704 472970 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316552983 555834 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.179.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1316553124 525745 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use k at all, you'll probably run into a "corner case". < 1316553139 616377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :True :P < 1316553185 227348 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drows are a kind of elf; drowsy is kind of an elfy state to be in. < 1316553255 563451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one I'm in. Good night, fuckers. < 1316553265 832666 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night elliott < 1316553379 753327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:56 Phantom_Hoover> What does uncomputable mean? < 1316553379 808394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:56 Ngevd> Super Turing-complete < 1316553433 234455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it is possible for a language to contain uncomputable features without being turing-hard < 1316553452 302273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall possibly seeing some proof < 1316553463 356681 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define 'Turing-hard'? < 1316553490 259100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :capable of computing anything a turing machine can compute, but possibly more < 1316553518 682209 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it can't compute anything a TM can? < 1316553521 589136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's trivial. < 1316553537 303865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316553538 845073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't compute _everything_ a TM can. < 1316553555 451545 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesyesyes, poor choice of words. < 1316553569 19060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may still be able to compute something a TM cannot. < 1316553594 947810 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, that seems trivial. < 1316553631 406544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, but it contradicts Ngevd's claim that uncomputable == super TC < 1316553646 316060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know. < 1316553648 370517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is all i wanted to point out. < 1316553954 494981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 But, is it, if you ignore undefined, and work only with fully defined programs? <-- if you ignore undefined, i think () is final and a Void (empty) type is initial, similarly to the Set category in math < 1316553954 701880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1316554025 451577 :ive!~nn@189.179.246.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316554344 700770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : is Norway always icy? < 1316554357 879711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we supposedly had 28 celsius sometime in august < 1316554367 117411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in trondheim) < 1316554376 940428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, by the forecast. < 1316554400 246248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it hasn't started freezing yet. < 1316554855 43431 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1316554940 468886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow is iwc 3160 < 1316555574 10096 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1316555782 527482 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316555799 163655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,3..20 :: Rational] < 1316555800 17103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1 % 1,3 % 1,5 % 1,7 % 1,9 % 1,11 % 1,13 % 1,15 % 1,17 % 1,19 % 1,21 % 1] < 1316556042 848359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is that the Calvin and Hobbes Point? < 1316556056 162418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1316556200 706088 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316556468 62805 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1316556575 817109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1316556576 860368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1316556771 34215 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316556862 229871 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316557020 160791 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: FireFly < 1316557107 299569 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1316557247 825696 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Rational < 1316557248 503872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Rational' < 1316557256 794291 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (%) < 1316557257 474822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> Ratio a < 1316557285 66039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Rational = Ratio Integer < 1316557362 363932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Rational < 1316557363 47122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1316557453 5212 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10 ** 10 ** 10 < 1316557453 866635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1316557463 146216 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10 ** 10 ** 10 :: Integral) < 1316557463 831855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Class `GHC.Real.Integral' used as a type < 1316557473 457885 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10 ** 10 ** 10 :: Integer) < 1316557474 142252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Integer.Type.Integer) < 1316557474 312025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fr... < 1316557482 904224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10 ^ 10 ^ 10 < 1316557486 495183 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp < 1316557497 267613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1316557498 462307 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1316557506 325961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10 ^ 10 ^ 5 < 1316557510 257921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1316557513 334022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10 ^ 10 ^ 3 < 1316557517 125868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1316557517 979654 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ^ 33 < 1316557521 56261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1316557521 741096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1316557526 352759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1316557536 336465 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (^) < 1316557536 490041 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^2 < 1316557538 33060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now lambdabot is just being lazy < 1316557538 374106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1316557541 792963 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a < 1316557543 848873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^33 < 1316557544 741364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8589934592 < 1316557556 732018 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>10^10^10 < 1316557569 230702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: that's far too large anyhow < 1316557569 401082 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10^10^10 < 1316557580 33537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 billion digits < 1316557587 722513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1316557596 480823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10^10^3 < 1316557605 253782 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1316557605 424141 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1316557610 211161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1316557611 705474 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (succ^5)0 < 1316557615 850520 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1316557616 705208 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^65 < 1316557618 416195 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 36893488147419103232 < 1316557619 549830 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (succ^2)0 < 1316557621 187743 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1316557623 686914 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (succ^3)0 < 1316557624 935464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1316557625 969771 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^129 < 1316557626 992864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 680564733841876926926749214863536422912 < 1316557630 68320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure lambdabot has managed computations of the size of 10^1000 before < 1316557632 977242 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^257 < 1316557634 852606 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 231584178474632390847141970017375815706539969331281128078915168015826259279... < 1316557651 942163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the new version has stricter time bounds < 1316557669 377697 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (id^3)0 < 1316557670 838802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1316557735 871123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that's not actually iterating the function < 1316557745 390044 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I figured as much from playing with succ < 1316557751 59922 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does it do then < 1316557771 176405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f^n) x = (f x)^n < 1316557786 53076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pointwise Num instance for functions < 1316557798 747441 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1316557846 914590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10^1000 < 1316557847 805178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000... < 1316557870 968735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it all depends on how much load lambdabot gets < 1316557872 337480 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1316557918 546026 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316558356 197928 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1316558358 588939 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1316558470 529581 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316558677 78101 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1316559133 385505 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1316559598 17276 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1316559605 509412 :tiffnya!~tiffany@188.215.83.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316559610 838131 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316559681 471269 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1316559721 132819 :jix_!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316560005 832092 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1316560005 921197 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1316560005 941370 :tiffany!~tiffany@188.215.83.116 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1316560006 517746 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :*.net *.split < 1316560119 188996 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-221.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd play a roguelike < 1316560453 19499 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1316560513 879217 :ineiros_!~itniemin@cs27065016.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316560572 425271 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316561480 746695 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1316562848 965426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds