00:02:37 -!- calamari has joined. 00:11:28 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:13:11 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:13:11 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 00:13:11 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 00:34:24 gah, I just read http://esolangs.org/wiki/German 00:34:43 is that even, technically, a language? it just looks like a really inefficient binary encoding format 00:35:17 I'm trying to figure out if it's even worse than a BF equivalent or not 00:38:21 lol 00:41:35 I vote worse 00:43:04 Shortening (the hydrogenated vegetable oil product) both disturbs and confuses me. 00:46:13 he could at least have spelt Bier correctly *whistles innocently* 00:50:19 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:56:19 -!- augur has joined. 00:56:41 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 00:56:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:00:29 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 01:02:03 -!- myndzi has joined. 01:04:44 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:22:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:51 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:36:38 -!- MichaelBurge has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:37:21 -!- tiffany has quit (Quit: Bai~). 01:51:05 -!- augur has joined. 01:53:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:58:30 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:04:24 -!- augur has joined. 02:04:58 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:05:04 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 02:05:04 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:06:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:08:44 -!- augur has joined. 02:32:26 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 02:32:55 It is a bad idea to resort to doing arithmatic by hand on an exam because you want to be a show-off and don't want to ask to borrow a calculator 02:35:54 I ran out of time, for the first time in a very long time 02:36:57 Shame the exam required nontrivial arithmetic. Irrelevancies. 02:38:31 at (my) university, they never allow calculators on math exams (though I think they allow it in e.g. physics, where the results might be more interesting than the working) 02:39:54 I've generally been used to either "you may not use calculators" or "sure, I guess you can use calculators, but I doubt it'll help". 02:40:48 It's not that likely that fast arithmetic is going to in any way aid you in demonstrating conceptual understanding, after all. 02:41:37 in high school we had to do some things with a calculator though, but only because the ability to use a calculator is part of the math curriculum 02:42:21 never figured out why, iirc they claimed I would need it in university 02:43:19 If they wanted to teach you something useful, they'd teach you programming, and probably the usage of a CAS. 02:43:29 pikhq: Calculators were allowed. I didn't have one. 02:43:32 CAS? 02:43:37 Computer algebra system. 02:45:05 And didn't ask for one until _after_ I finished doing the problem that involved a rather annoying amount of arithmetic. 02:45:14 And noted how little time I had left 02:46:22 Sgeo|web: I'm being annoyed that a calculator was allowed and actually useful. 02:46:31 -!- MichaelBurge has joined. 02:47:02 Ah 02:47:29 Sgeo|web: The ability to perform trivial-yet-annoying arithmetic quickly, calculator or not, is almost certainly an utter irrelevancy. 02:54:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:01:33 -!- augur has joined. 03:21:52 -!- buds has joined. 03:25:00 -!- buds has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:30:42 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to presheaves. 03:41:06 -!- presheaves has changed nick to copumpkin. 03:51:42 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:57:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 03:59:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 03:59:43 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 03:59:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:00:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:15:39 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:19:08 -!- pumpkin has joined. 04:23:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:25:29 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:27:28 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 04:39:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:10:37 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 05:11:58 -!- Vorpal has joined. 05:23:11 -!- variable has quit (Excess Flood). 05:24:11 -!- Guest13902 has joined. 05:28:09 -!- Guest13902 has quit (Changing host). 05:28:09 -!- Guest13902 has joined. 05:28:22 -!- Guest13902 has changed nick to variable. 05:42:42 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:56:31 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:13:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:13:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:22:15 -!- augur has joined. 06:22:32 -!- azaq23 has joined. 06:22:43 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 06:23:07 -!- azaq23 has joined. 07:54:28 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Excess Flood). 07:54:49 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 07:55:32 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 07:55:32 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 08:33:00 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:35:51 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:40:07 -!- myndzi has joined. 09:48:46 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 09:52:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:53:12 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:39:53 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 10:50:46 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:55:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 10:56:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:35:58 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:35:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 11:35:58 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:36:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:49:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:12:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:20:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:28:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:30:45 -!- sllide has joined. 12:37:04 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:45:38 -!- sllide has joined. 12:52:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:58:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:27:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:34:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:34:35 -!- augur has joined. 14:12:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:23:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:28:08 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 14:28:08 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 14:28:08 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 14:29:43 -!- Effilry has joined. 14:31:26 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:31:38 -!- Effilry has quit (Changing host). 14:31:38 -!- Effilry has joined. 14:31:46 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 14:41:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:41:42 copumpkin! 14:42:25 hi :) 14:49:15 So are you actually any kind of god. 14:52:59 yeah 15:11:03 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 15:15:08 <-- why the fuck did they go for xml for a config file that basically only contains lines like that. And why did they put it in an attribute. The " thingy everywhere is hideous. 15:15:17 (from /etc/ImageMagick/delegates.xml) 15:32:09 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:37:44 -!- Zuu has joined. 15:43:21 UPDATE [of PBF] 15:43:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:59:07 -!- monqy has joined. 16:00:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5). 16:08:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:08:48 Sgeo|web, wait whaaaaaaaaa 16:25:01 -!- Ngevd has joined. 16:25:29 Hello! 16:25:51 That's Numberwang! 16:28:02 !numberwang 4 16:28:04 That's numberwang! 16:28:18 !numberwang 8 16:28:19 That's numberwang! 16:28:23 !numberwang 2345 16:28:24 That's numberwang! 16:28:53 !numberwang Fifty twelve 16:28:53 I'm sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable! 16:29:10 !show numberwang 16:29:10 perl print (grep (/\d/, <>) ? q(That's numberwang!) : q(I'm sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable!)) 16:29:33 !numberwang numberwang 16:29:34 I'm sorry, but Brazil isn't a vegetable! 16:32:34 Someone who doesn't get the preview tool has made an esolang 16:34:24 Not a bad esolang either 16:34:42 I'LL BE THE JUDGE OF THAT 16:34:56 Wait dammit RC doesn't work. 16:37:02 It's a language with geometric output 16:40:59 Reasonably interesting 16:41:29 Link? 16:42:09 Sgeo|web: PBF being? 16:42:34 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Geom 16:43:05 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 16:50:23 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:55:26 -!- elliott has joined. 16:55:45 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 16:55:45 -!- elliott has joined. 16:57:03 hi 16:57:06 hi 16:57:13 h...i 16:57:20 http://www.codepedia.com/1/CppExpression 16:57:21 no 16:57:40 "An expression is a statement without a semicolon" 16:57:53 bad description of what an expression is or worst? 16:57:54 discuss. 16:57:55 yes 16:58:28 :( 16:58:52 http://www.codepedia.com/1/CppStatement 16:58:57 elliott: depends on the language 16:59:04 in ICA, statements are a special case of expressions 16:59:07 "A statement is an expression with a semicolon [1]. Multiple statements, surrounded by acccolades ('{' and '}') form a compound statement " 16:59:12 http://esolangs.org/wiki/CUTLASS 16:59:14 um 16:59:14 (I suspect in most languages it's the other way round) 16:59:16 ?????? 16:59:20 -!- MSleep has joined. 16:59:21 expression are statements or statements are expressions? help 16:59:31 CakeProphet: You keep removing the [1]s; it's not just any thing, it's a thing with a citation. 16:59:38 elliott: looks copied from somewhere 16:59:42 Well, at least from the first one. 16:59:43 ais523: nope 16:59:48 (cur) (last) 10:55, 30 September 2008 147.89.224.69 (Talk) (Fairly major rewrite from someone involved in the Cutlass Kit 9 project! I hope this is useful.) 16:59:59 I suspect 147.89.224.75 is the same editor 17:00:04 since it's very close 17:00:08 and who the hell knows what CUTLASS is 17:00:16 fizzie: even if it's cited it's still a horrible definition. 17:00:19 but the page has been around for four years... 17:00:24 yep, no results on a quick copyvio search 17:00:34 the page really needs bancstarisation, I just don't know what that is 17:00:49 it needs moving to another wiki :P 17:01:06 CakeProphet: Also not just any citation, but a citation to a Dutch book. 17:01:25 plant I/O and control loops. botany is good yes. 17:01:39 fizzie: which meaaaans.... 17:02:48 The Cutlass language contains an extensive library of functions specially tailored for process control applications. These include mode and history-dependent functions such as integrators, filters, PID controllers, as well as a range of data-reduction routines and steam tables. 17:02:53 steampunk language 17:02:54 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:03:15 -!- pumpkin has joined. 17:04:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:04:32 a steampunk language would be done entirely with punch cards, and would player pianos. 17:04:36 +involve 17:04:49 also zeppelins. 17:05:24 sounds great 17:05:37 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 17:05:59 mmm player pianos 17:06:11 -!- CakeProphet has changed nick to tephorPekaC. 17:06:18 -!- tephorPekaC has changed nick to tehporPekaC. 17:06:20 lulz 17:06:35 -!- tehporPekaC has changed nick to CakeProhpet. 17:06:40 Vorpal: Perry Bible Fellowship 17:06:57 hey, is it ping random people with random phrases day? 17:07:05 elliott: matrix of solidity 17:07:12 ais523: walrus 17:07:16 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 17:07:18 Oh wow, Xubuntu uses xscreensaver by default 17:07:23 Retro 17:07:26 Sgeo|web: PBF being? 17:07:27 is that awesome or awful? 17:07:30 ais523: ordered multiset of dumbledore dies 17:07:32 ais523: It's retro 17:07:44 isn't an ordered multiset just... a list? 17:07:46 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:07:51 well, equivalent to one 17:08:02 but without the assumptions on internal implementation? 17:08:11 list of dumbledore dies 17:08:13 a "list" doesn't assume those either 17:08:19 hmm, who here would say that "list" to them implies "accessing the first element is faster than accessing the last element" 17:08:27 hmm, I have exactly two Xfce annoyances 17:08:29 ais523: lists aren't technical enough to be maths 17:08:32 I've known people who would say it does, and who would say it isn't 17:08:32 one is major, one is not so major 17:08:34 * Sgeo|web needs to get going now 17:08:35 ais523: not me 17:08:35 assuming a reasonable length 17:08:36 Bye 17:08:43 Bye, Sgeo|web 17:08:43 ais523: Python calls dynamic-arraylists lists 17:08:47 I used to use xlock. 17:08:54 as do many other languages 17:08:54 Or xlockmore, I guess. 17:08:59 ais523: do they? 17:09:03 give examples 17:09:05 fizzie: a screensaver that's also a pager? 17:09:12 elliott: ArrayList in Java, at least 17:09:18 ais523: that's an arraylist :P 17:09:19 is a List, which is hte general term 17:09:20 is there a formalism for lists? 17:09:26 fair enough 17:09:35 ais523: Sadly, no. It's an "xlock" variant that has "more" screen-hacks in it. 17:09:51 ais523: but in STL list is a doubly linked list. 17:09:53 ais523: the closest/most natural thing Haskell has to a list has O(log(min(i,n-i))) indexing 17:09:55 CakeProhpet: data List = Empty | Cons List List 17:09:59 ais523: it's certainly not standard. 17:10:08 where n is the length of the list 17:10:46 "list" to me has a mild implication of "implemented in a linked list style behind the scenes" 17:10:48 but not a certain one 17:11:30 yes me too. 17:11:35 nothing I would take for granted. 17:12:02 ais523: also I think the formalism for a "list" would be sequences. 17:12:04 perhaps? 17:12:09 >_< 17:12:41 it's interesting that the operations of "head" and "tail" are reasonably implementable with most provided sorts of lists 17:12:51 even if they aren't linked lists behind the scenes 17:13:00 e.g. you can point to the second element of an array in C 17:13:07 ais523: Only immutable ones. 17:13:11 tail isn't quite so reasonable in mutable cases.. 17:13:13 yes 17:13:16 what elliott said. 17:13:21 ais523: Also, you can't implement cons easily for C arrays. 17:13:23 it's hard to work out what "tail" means in the mutable case 17:13:25 So it's not really list-tail. 17:13:35 and having worked on Overload, I'm not sure I want to 17:14:07 well the sane way to do tail would be to make a copy. 17:14:32 Overload didn't! 17:14:47 Overload doesn't sound like the name of a sane language. 17:15:15 it wasn't 17:15:21 well, isn't, I assume it still exists 17:15:26 but you could certainly do pointer shenanigans and return the original uncopied tail. 17:15:27 but I never finished it as the insanity got too much for me 17:15:36 speaking of feather 17:15:38 it's not like Feather, it was a perfectly ordinary sort of insanity 17:15:51 that could be fixed with persistence, but the resulting language would be insufficiently awesome 17:16:12 and oh, how pointer-shenaningans Overload was 17:16:28 ais523: so anyway, I recommend Debian+Xfce or Xubuntu as a migration path for Ubuntu users 17:16:34 in STL C++, tail on most data structures would require a copy I believe. 17:16:39 elliott: so what are the two issues with xfce? 17:16:44 they're very unlikely to fuck up Xfce, and it can be made to work basically exactly like gnome two 17:16:55 I take it those aren't the two issues? 17:16:58 heh 17:17:04 ais523: One is with the panel, this is the less important one; the window list in the taskbar can't be rearranged 17:17:25 `addquote elliott: so what are the two issues with xfce? they're very unlikely to fuck up Xfce, and it can be made to work basically exactly like gnome two 17:17:25 ais523: The more important one is that scrolling a background window focuses and raises it with default xfwm settings and I can't figure out how to fix it -- but you can just use another wm with xfce 17:17:29 688) elliott: so what are the two issues with xfce? they're very unlikely to fuck up Xfce, and it can be made to work basically exactly like gnome two 17:17:30 elliott: 1) hack xfce 2) profit 17:17:44 ais523: indeed, even Metacity would work fine 17:17:48 The following NEW packages will be installed: 17:17:49 libgnome2-common libmetacity-private0 metacity metacity-common 17:17:53 elliott: hmm, how often do you scroll background windows? I do, but only occasionally 17:17:54 not an unreasonable set of dependencies 17:17:57 ais523: often 17:18:00 yep, that's reasonable 17:18:07 would I be shot for using xfce with Compiz? 17:18:10 ais523: e.g., I have IRC on top but am reading a background web page 17:18:23 elliott: is metacity pronoucned "meta city" or "meTAcity" (with the stress on ta) 17:18:23 ais523: and, well, I wouldn't like you; both xfwm and metacity can do compositing and shadows 17:18:25 ah, I prefer to alt-tab then 17:18:34 xfwm can even do opacity 17:18:37 and opacity adjustment 17:18:42 what about contrast change? 17:18:46 or zoom? 17:18:47 (alt-scroll on the title bar) 17:18:52 dunno, let me check :P 17:19:11 zoom is particularly useful for checking that subpixel algos are working properly 17:19:37 hmm, I don't think I've used color-inverse for ages since I discovered contrast change 17:19:41 I like a dark screen at night 17:19:52 ais523: the only results I can find about zoom+xfwm are pages telling you how to overcomplicatedly set up compiz with xfce 17:20:00 so I'd say just use compiz :P 17:20:16 for a while I had Epiphany force-override colors used by webpages, but webpages don't seem to really like that behaviour nowadays 17:20:22 ais523: it'll work fine, although the default Xubuntu theme is nice and depends on a xfwm theme to be nic 17:20:22 e 17:20:41 oh, looks like someone ported it to compiz :P 17:20:46 oh, I'm used to bad themes, at least 17:20:46 yep 17:20:51 given that I'm often not on my own computer 17:21:13 although the one I'm using at the moment is pretty nice (it's the New Wave theme that was proposed for Ubuntu but never accepted) 17:21:23 An infinite binary sequence can represent a formal language (a set of strings) by setting the n th bit of the sequence to 1 if and only if the n th string (in shortlex order) is in the language. Therefore, the study of complexity classes, which are sets of languages, may be regarded as studying sets of infinite sequences. 17:21:37 lolwat 17:21:47 -!- ralc has joined. 17:21:50 this is way over my head. 17:22:14 I understand it, but it doesn't seem particularly useful 17:22:39 basically, because programs close to each other in shortlex order don't necessarily have anything to do with each other at all 17:23:12 ais523: I actually really like Xubuntu's default theme: http://ompldr.org/vYWswMA, http://ompldr.org/vYWp6eg 17:23:24 that's just me, though 17:23:35 hmm, that's passable 17:23:38 ais523: oh wait I understand I think. but not what it has to do with complexity classes. 17:23:43 a bit like the Mac brushed-metal theme but simpler 17:23:58 ais523: not brushed-metal 17:24:11 it's more like the smooth style seen Leopard onwards 17:24:18 hmm, the min/max/close buttons look misaligned 17:24:23 brushed metal is this abomination: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TigerCalc.png 17:24:26 Chrome as opposed to Chromium? 17:24:43 elliott: ouch, you're right 17:24:49 ais523: hmm... minimise looks slightly higher than it should be, but it hasn't bothered me yet 17:24:52 yep, the close button is centred half a pixel higher than it should be 17:24:54 ais523: is there operations you could perform on these binary sequences that would be useful in studying complexity classes? 17:24:55 and I think it's pixel-correct 17:24:57 I just zoomed in to check 17:24:58 oh, is it? 17:25:01 ais523: maybe the adjacency of the sequence terms is irrelevant. 17:25:04 fair enough 17:25:14 ais523: using compiz would solve that :P 17:25:20 since the compiz version is based on another theme 17:25:23 rather than being a straight port 17:25:31 or, hmm 17:25:32 http://xfce-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre3/143376-3.png 17:25:33 I think it's because they were trying to snap shapes to pixels 17:25:37 it /looks/ right to me 17:26:02 bleh, I can't tell on that one even zoomed in, because it's pretty heavily antialiased 17:26:06 which I suppose makes it more likely to be lined up right 17:26:14 I think it's the same? 17:26:15 as my screenshot 17:26:20 it doesn't look more antialiased to me 17:26:33 the buttons seem identical here 17:26:40 oh, I'm stupid, I zoomed in on a zoomed-out version 17:26:52 ais523: you can turn off zoom antialiasing with compiz 17:26:52 and it's the downscaler algo that misaligned it 17:26:52 I think 17:26:55 by trying to round to pixels 17:27:08 oh, I meant the original was antialiased, not the zoom 17:27:33 PSPACE=NPSPACE. really? 17:27:47 ais523: well, it wouldn't be a problem if your zoomer used nearest neighbour 17:28:00 oh okay I see how that could be. 17:28:05 CakeProhpet: pretty obviously, just run all the possibilities one after the other 17:28:23 elliott: blame Firefox, I guess 17:28:32 ais523: umm, but you said it was zoomed out in Firefox 17:28:35 so it should be original size 17:28:36 "Three Rings: This article is about the fictional artifacts. For the video game developer, see Three Rings Design. For the Three Rings on the Ring of Light, see Xbox 360 technical problems. For the T-Pain album, see Thr33 Ringz." 17:28:39 or 17:28:39 oh 17:28:42 you dezoomed in Fx 17:28:43 okay 17:28:45 elliott: it was the downscaled thumbnail in Firefox 17:28:48 rifgt 17:28:49 "Three Rings on the Ring of Light, see Xbox 360 technical problems". 17:28:49 I forgot to click to expand 17:28:51 right 17:28:59 There's some sort of style mismatch there. 17:29:00 then I used Compiz to zoom in on that 17:29:10 how small is your Fx window? that image is tiny 17:29:13 fizzie: the Ring of Light is the official name 17:29:26 ais523: That is a nice name. 17:29:29 maximised on 1366x768, with some toolbars/taskbars in the way 17:29:36 ais523: but PTIME != NPTIME. or, well, we don't know still. 17:29:45 but probably not. 17:29:59 well, the PSPACE/NPSPACE argument obviously doesn't apply to P=?NP 17:30:12 ais523: right. it's an unrelated though 17:30:13 t 17:30:18 oh right, IMPORTANT NOTATIONAL QUESTION that came up today: how do you write the operation of "add the same integer to every element of a list"? 17:30:27 ais523: n+list 17:30:38 best way. 17:30:39 I tried that, but was accused of that being disjoint union 17:30:47 ais523: map (n+) list 17:30:48 well, it was a set, not a list 17:31:09 I was using n .+ list as a placeholder (it's what MATLAB calls the operation, and it's the only widely-used language I've ever seen with it built in) 17:31:20 n+list is how APL works right? 17:33:18 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 17:33:25 -!- elliott has joined. 17:33:27 WHAT FUCKING KEY DO I KEEP PRESSING 17:33:33 bad 17:33:37 elliott: what was that language you were talking about that's awesome and uses arrays or something? 17:33:40 Ah yes, I kept pressing the "bad" key. 17:33:42 J? 17:33:51 J is array-based, yes. 17:34:11 the programs look like Perl mixed with brainfuck. 17:34:15 in terms of syhntax 17:34:16 no, they don't 17:34:17 Visual J# 17:34:20 elliott: some sort of middle-click where it shouldn't be (the usual reason for me to accidentally part a channel)? 17:34:23 CakeProhpet: not at all 17:34:30 I just recall them being rather noisy 17:34:33 is all I'm saying by that 17:34:35 ais523: You add a (same) scalar to each element of a list in MATLAB with just plain old regular "+". There is no ".+" operator. 17:34:36 don't take it personal. :P 17:34:42 fizzie: hmm 17:34:51 I've used really old MATLAB, and GAUSS before that 17:34:53 maybe they changed it 17:34:54 ais523: no, key 17:35:02 elliott: control-W? seems a little hard to typo 17:35:08 esc? seems a weird keybinding for a client to use 17:35:09 Ngevd: j# is something entirely diffferent 17:35:25 ais523: There is a ".*" and "./" to differentiate elementwise multiplication/division from matrix product/right-division. 17:35:27 and F# is an OCaml clone linked up to the .NET standard library 17:35:28 or is it k? it was some letter. 17:35:34 fizzie: perhaps that's what I was thinking of 17:35:36 ais523: But you can multiply a list by a scalar with plain "*" anyway. 17:35:48 -!- elliott_ has joined. 17:35:52 ofc, matrix addition is just + anyway 17:36:05 as I was going to say 17:36:11 I think I'll just si 17:36:16 I think I'll just switch to an xmonad setup when I get the desktop 17:36:34 J looks more verbose than the language I'm thinking of. 17:36:39 oh no that's it. 17:36:53 I just haven't seen many examples of the code. 17:37:34 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:37:50 elliott: is it J or K that you like a lot? 17:37:56 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:37:59 sdhguijeuhsf 17:38:06 dont worry elliott_s here 17:38:19 elliott_: ^ 17:38:22 "a lifes aver" 17:39:04 -!- elliott__ has joined. 17:39:08 OIFJDLKHGHGLKSDFG 17:39:10 hi elliott__ 17:39:10 the underscores are multiplying 17:39:23 CakeProhpet: no, 1 * 1 is 1 17:39:25 they're adding 17:39:37 gah that name is annoying, I keep thinking my tab-complete typoed 17:39:47 best name 17:39:48 INCREASING BY A LINEAR FUNCTION 17:39:49 FINE 17:39:59 SO. PICKY. 17:40:39 elliott_: was it J or K that you like? 17:40:45 I answered that. 17:40:58 except it didn't survive 17:41:21 elliott_: not on my buffer. 17:41:34 -!- elliott_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:41:38 yikes 17:41:48 I WILL NEVER KNOW 17:41:51 HOW CAN ILIVE? 17:42:00 by asking elliott__ 17:42:05 fizzie: Hey, you can make tig's log nicer. 17:42:13 fizzie: Try Ctrl+Up. 17:42:20 monqy: each underscored elliot is a fabrication of the previous 17:42:28 elliot_ 17:42:41 a mere simulacrum. 17:42:48 elliottt_ 17:43:24 instead of using underscores i should append ys 17:43:32 -!- boily has joined. 17:43:32 monqyyyyyyyyyyyyyy (a bad day for connections) 17:43:51 I should use various misspellings and backwardsizations of my name. 17:44:05 -!- CakeProhpet has changed nick to CakeProphet. 17:45:10 elliott__: but yeah you never answered my question visibly. I double checked my buffer. 17:45:12 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:45:25 then J 17:45:30 ah okay. 17:45:46 though K is nice too. 17:45:47 K looks pretty similar however. I wonder if it's better or worse. 17:45:49 ah. 17:45:57 it is just different 17:46:01 ais523: is it just me or has the method of reporting crashes got more complicated in Ubuntu? 17:46:12 I don't know, as I haven't had one for a while 17:46:15 K isn't functional like J kind of is right? 17:46:16 the benefits of LTS, I guess 17:46:27 * CakeProphet doesn't understand either very well, other than they work like APL. 17:46:34 CakeProphet: in which way do you think J is functional, in which way do you think K does not have this property 17:46:40 ais523: I mean, program crashes 17:46:43 elliott__: nothing very concrete. 17:46:44 Pidgin is crashing incessantly 17:46:56 CakeProphet: can't answer then s.r.y. 17:46:59 oh, IIRC KDE and Gnome each had their own bugreporter 17:47:00 elliott__: I am probing around and getting answers. 17:47:08 conversationally. 17:47:12 ais523: too bad Pidgin is part of neither 17:47:19 indeed, that's what I just realised 17:47:24 CakeProphet: say bad things, get corrected, no remorse 17:47:49 monqy: it's a common way people converse... 17:47:56 to learn about things. 17:48:04 bad people 17:48:08 okay fine. 17:48:48 -!- ralc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:49:52 HMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm 17:49:56 ais523: hm maybe you know the answer to this question: how does that lever on the back of a car mirror that reduces the blinding effect from car lights behind actually work 17:50:00 physically I mean 17:50:03 ah so they are both functional just in different ways. 17:50:18 different ways? 17:50:19 Vorpal: I'm afraid I don't know what you're referring to 17:50:21 it just seems to tilt the mirror but somehow still show the same area, but with less light? 17:50:27 ais523: you have a driving license? 17:50:27 monqy: differently influenced. 17:50:31 no, I don't 17:50:35 ais523: ah okay 17:50:40 well who else could know 17:50:40 giving me one would probably be criminal negligence 17:50:41 CakeProphet: ??? 17:50:52 monqy: I can't answer question marks. 17:51:01 I can't concentrate really heavily for long periods of time at a time 17:51:04 ais523: thing is: you know that cars have three mirrors? One on each side and one in the middle inside? 17:51:09 CakeProphet: would you prefer a what 17:51:09 I can stay focused, but that's not the same as concentrating 17:51:12 yep, I know what a wing mirror is 17:51:15 monqy: no that's the same thing 17:51:20 CakeProphet: what???? 17:51:21 but I don't know what the lever you're referring to is 17:51:23 ais523: I'm interested in the mirror inside, not the ones on the side 17:51:26 monqy: "hi please repeat yourself in a more verbose way" 17:51:32 the lever is on the internal mirror 17:51:35 ah, I don't think I've seen that adjusted while driving 17:51:40 and it's just to change the angle, IIRC 17:51:42 monqy: hi please repeat yourself in a way that makes sense 17:51:51 oops 17:51:56 ah so they are both functional just in different ways. 17:51:56 although, the obvious explanation is that it tilts the mirror so that the car lights are no longer reflecting into your eyes, but miss your eyes 17:51:59 Neither J nor K is pure. 17:52:04 and the same area is still mostly visible, just on a different part of the mirror 17:52:10 Neither J nor K have full first-class function support, either. 17:52:22 ais523: well if it is dark it has a kind of lever on it that you flip and suddenly the light from behind is reduced, useful when driving in the dark when you get strong headlights from behind 17:52:31 it is just that the manner it works in is pure magic to me 17:52:36 it probably just changes it between two possible settings 17:52:43 on the basis that one of them won't reflect into your eyes 17:52:57 monqy: J is influenced by FP/FL, K is influenced by Scheme. Differently. Influenced. 17:53:13 ais523: well, it seems to show the same area behind kind of. As in the position of the headlights doesn't seem to shift, just be reduced 17:53:19 elliott__: I didn't say they were pure. 17:53:21 not many things are pure. 17:53:35 CakeProphet: and how does this make them different 17:53:40 ais523: it does move the view *while* you move the lever. Kind of jumps up then down. 17:53:51 elliott__: but the lack of first-class functions definitely strays away from my definition of functional 17:53:54 CakeProphet: my question was how are they functional in different ways, not what were their influences 17:54:06 CakeProphet: your definition of functional: it kind of sucks 17:54:13 oh found it on wikipedia 17:54:15 monqy: I don't know. I don't actually know these languages I am reading about them and attempting to learn from you guys 17:54:23 read the labs 17:54:44 ais523: there is some very cleaver stuff going on there: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rear-view_mirror#Dimming 17:54:52 monqy: your conversation skills suck. I'm going to go do something else now. 17:55:19 CakeProphet: ok 17:58:27 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:58:53 -!- variable has quit (Excess Flood). 17:59:22 Vorpal: Oh, I've wondered about that too. 17:59:43 very clearver 17:59:45 very cleaver 18:00:16 I wish I could eliminate this Template Haskell 18:00:28 elliott__: you cannot kill an idea. 18:00:30 unfortunately. 18:00:39 what 18:01:02 oh, I assumed you were using the "kill" definition of eliminate. 18:01:11 -!- variable has joined. 18:01:20 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1071201/why-does-list-comprehension-using-a-zip-object-results-in-an-empty-list 18:01:27 lol @ python 18:01:44 funniest language. 18:03:06 so zip basically returns a lazy list except that you can only read it once 18:03:14 hmm 18:03:14 I think instead of just turning all of the builtin's into generators they should have just moved most of itertools into __builtin__ 18:03:35 so izip = generator zip 18:03:44 and zip still does what it does in Python 2.x 18:03:55 ais523: no 18:03:59 ais523: it's just that for advances it 18:04:08 rather than, e.g. asking it for an iterator and then advancing it 18:04:13 because it's already an iterator (generator) 18:04:16 because :python: 18:04:18 ah, OK 18:04:38 I suppose "why would you ask an iterator for an iterator" is the implied question there 18:04:52 Vorpal: Oh, I've wondered about that too. <-- yeah it is quite ingenious 18:05:21 ais523: because see SO question? :P 18:05:33 elliott__: well, yes 18:05:41 I'm just trying to understand how the design decision question happened 18:06:42 I wonder if making a copy of the iterator would work as well. 18:07:09 -!- augur has joined. 18:07:12 I'd guess the design decision went something like "herp derp" 18:07:29 olsner: good one 18:07:59 ah okay you can't use copy() on iterators 18:07:59 Can someone type two five five five six 18:08:01 so no that doesn't work. 18:08:03 2556 18:08:09 Wrong 18:08:13 25556 18:08:19 Hooray 18:08:29 interesting question 18:08:30 elliott__: my eyesight is getting pretty bad. 18:08:35 CakeProphet: I think python is one of the most herp of all the derp languages 18:08:46 python is actually not incredibly terrible. 18:08:51 but it's not great either. 18:08:51 fizzie: So that coproc thing... 18:09:00 ais523: turns out the answer was no 18:09:10 heh 18:09:21 to date the worst language I have used is C++ 18:09:33 CakeProphet: how much esolang programming have you done? 18:09:37 elliott__: What about it?-) 18:09:45 ais523: not a great amount. but esolangs are exempt 18:09:45 admittedly, C++ is pretty bad on the scale of "real" languages 18:09:57 fizzie: ? 18:09:57 ais523: people don't write space shuttle code in brainfuck. 18:09:59 Oh right 18:10:05 How do you dereference an array in bash anyway 18:10:07 (n)? 18:10:12 [n]. 18:10:25 $ARRAY[0] and $ARRAY[1] and so on. IIRC. 18:10:29 it's .[] to deref arrays in OCaml 18:10:35 wait, no, .() 18:10:39 ais523, is c.intercal.org.uk your site? 18:10:40 .[] is to take characters strings 18:10:46 Ngevd: no, it's Claudio Calvelli's site 18:10:51 Okay 18:10:55 which might seem a little weird given the circumstances 18:10:58 Would you tell him it is not working 18:11:00 but hey, it's INTERCAL 18:11:02 Ngevd: in what way? 18:11:03 fizzie: 18:11:03 #!/bin/bash -e 18:11:03 coproc 'nc -l 25556 | tee "$clientlog"' 18:11:03 nc "$1" "$2" <&$COPROC[0] | 18:11:03 tee "$serverlog" >&$COPROC[1] 18:11:07 fizzie: Does that look right to you? :p 18:11:09 Well, I guess you might need ${ARRAY[0]}. 18:11:10 Won't load 18:11:22 oh, indeed 18:11:29 fizzie: Apart from that? 18:11:32 in fact, intercal.org.uk seems down generally 18:11:41 that is, the subdomains that should exist 18:11:44 (the parent domain shouldn't) 18:12:00 I'll give it some time to come back up before emailing him 18:12:16 what were you trying to find there? 18:12:27 hmmm I wonder how you could get the benefits of phantom types without the syntactic overhead. 18:12:32 what 18:12:37 so that you don't have to explicitly write the phantom parameter everywhere 18:12:53 "iw ish I could track an addiotioanl piece with my data ... but without specifying it...." 18:12:55 it should just be magic 18:13:35 elliott__: no just implicit. 18:13:43 but I can't think of a good way to do that. 18:13:43 = magic 18:14:13 elliott__: Sounds like it should work. I was just thinking about making the most useless use of cat ever made, and doing "coproc STUPIDPIPE cat; nc -l 12345 <&${STUPIDPIPE[0]} | tee clientlog | nc server port | tee serverlog >&${STUPIDPIPE[1]}" -- the logic is arguably a little bit clearer there. 18:14:39 the most useless use of cat ever is probably along the lines of cat | startx 18:14:50 fizzie: Heh. 18:14:58 though the use I was thinking of is impossible I just realized. I don't think you can turn zero division into a type error, except for a small minority of cases. 18:14:59 fizzie: Well, it's nicer in that it quits if the listener does too. 18:14:59 The name of the coproc was chosen to reflect the fact that it really should be able to just pop up pipes somehow. 18:15:20 fizzie: But... hmm, will that coproc die when the script does? 18:16:00 Nnnmaybe. "Physically" speaking it should depend on whether the pipes get closed. 18:16:09 But that's sort of up to bash. 18:16:39 kill $STUPIDPIPE_PID at the end to make sure. :p 18:17:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Pharmtom_Hoover. 18:17:46 I was in fact sort of assuming you could do the whole thing with a single socat, but it doesn't seem to have raw data logging facilities. 18:18:00 Or fanning stuff to multiple destinations. 18:18:17 tools/log-packets: line 7: PIPE: command not found 18:18:17 tools/log-packets: line 8: ${COPROC[0]}: Bad file descriptor 18:18:17 tools/log-packets: line 9: ${COPROC[1]}: Bad file descriptor 18:18:19 Poor stuff for a self-styled "netcat++". 18:18:27 fizzie: I... 18:18:32 coproc: coproc [NAME] command [redirections] 18:18:34 Does it lie? 18:18:39 Oh, duh 18:18:41 I forgot the "cat". 18:18:52 I don't see anything about _PID in coproc. 18:19:00 Ohh: "NAME must not be supplied if command is a simple command." 18:19:05 you could prevent zero division errors at compile-time for any integers that are known at compile time by having them carry type-level naturals and a sign phantom type. The types of the arithmetic operations would also perform computations on the type-level representation, or do nothing in the special case where value isn't known at compile-time. 18:19:10 Although "coproc PIPE cat" does ths ame. 18:19:10 Oh well, maybe you should just "coproc cat" and use the default name, then. 18:19:14 yes, that is a terrible idea. 18:19:15 fizzie: As opposed to... what? 18:19:22 A complicated command? 18:19:33 Yes. 18:19:36 -!- Pharmtom_Hoover has changed nick to Tane. 18:19:37 coproc cat 18:19:37 nc -l 25556 <&${COPROC[0]} | tee "$serverlog" | 18:19:37 nc "$host" "$port" | tee "$clientlog" >&${COPROC[1]} 18:19:38 -!- Tane has changed nick to Taneb. 18:19:38 tools/log-packets: line 8: ${COPROC[0]}: Bad file descriptor 18:19:38 tools/log-packets: line 9: ${COPROC[1]}: Bad file descriptor 18:19:40 ????? 18:19:45 Do I need to quote them? 18:20:14 You shouldn't. Maybe try echo ${COPROC[0]}. 18:21:06 63 18:21:07 Also "coproc PIPE {cat;}" if you want to give it a name; then it's a "compound command", not a "simple command". 18:21:08 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Kindle. 18:21:22 Sorry, "coproc PIPE { cat; }". 18:21:28 Maybe I should try it out. 18:21:35 -!- Taneb|Kindle has changed nick to Taneb. 18:21:38 63 18:21:38 tools/log-packets: line 9: ${COPROC[1]}: Bad file descriptor 18:21:38 tools/log-packets: line 8: ${COPROC[0]}: Bad file descriptor 18:21:42 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Pharmtom_Hoover. 18:21:46 Definitely sounds like it needs quoting. 18:22:22 I quote everything just to be safe... 18:22:41 as a space will fuck everything up. 18:22:45 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 18:22:59 CakeProphet: It's an fd. 18:23:02 fds don't contain spaces. 18:23:15 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 18:23:22 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Kindle. 18:23:27 tools/log-packets: line 7: "${COPROC[0]}": Bad file descriptor 18:23:27 tools/log-packets: line 8: "${COPROC[1]}": Bad file descriptor 18:23:33 fizzie: Sounds like I need to use eval. 18:23:35 I'unno, it seems to work in an interactive shell: 18:23:36 -!- Taneb|Kindle has changed nick to Ngevd. 18:23:36 fis@eris:~$ coproc PIPE { cat; } 18:23:36 [1] 4427 18:23:36 fis@eris:~$ echo ${PIPE[0]} ${PIPE[1]} 18:23:36 63 60 18:23:36 fis@eris:~$ echo yay >&${PIPE[1]} 18:23:38 fis@eris:~$ cat <&${PIPE[0]} 18:23:40 yay 18:23:55 http://sprunge.us/BJQF 18:23:56 It looks OK to me. 18:24:09 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb|Hovercraft. 18:24:20 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has changed nick to Ngevd. 18:24:36 bash has the best semantics. 18:24:48 fizzie: Or do you _need_ the compound thing to get it working at all? :-P 18:24:56 -!- elliott__ has changed nick to Taneb. 18:25:07 .. 18:25:10 -!- CakeProphet has changed nick to elliott. 18:25:19 this is perhaps not a great idea. 18:25:28 -!- elliott has changed nick to CakeProphet. 18:25:33 What, NickServ is down? 18:25:39 elliott: Ohhhh, right. 18:25:43 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:25:45 Oh dear god. 18:25:47 elliott: You need to do a THING. 18:25:55 -!- Taneb has changed nick to elliott. 18:25:58 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 18:25:58 -!- elliott has joined. 18:26:01 fizzie: wat. 18:26:11 elliott: I saw this somewhere. The problem is that the coproc fds aren't inherited by the subshell that is spawned to handle the pipeline. 18:26:21 I... okay. 18:26:53 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 18:27:05 >_> 18:27:31 Please tell me that was my ghosting. 18:27:36 I have no idea what that was. 18:27:39 i think it was 18:27:41 but that makes no sense. 18:27:44 as I was no longer you. 18:27:44 elliott: http://p.zem.fi/fzuu 18:27:44 it makes sense 18:27:45 to me 18:27:48 elliott: You want something like that. 18:27:52 CakeProphet: nickserv is lagged to hell 18:27:56 ah. 18:27:56 fizzie: You can do those two execs as one. 18:28:03 fizzie: And isn't that line identical to "coproc cat"? 18:28:05 Oh, right. Sure. 18:28:09 And yes, I was just testing. :p 18:28:11 CakeProphet: Did you forget to identify and have nick protection on? 18:28:55 fizzie: Well, it "works". It hangs btu I can't connect to localhost. 18:28:58 Did I get my default MC port wrong? 18:29:05 25566. 18:29:14 You were *so* close. 18:29:26 elliott: erm? I'm pretty sure I auto-ident 18:29:52 the ident would have carreid over i think... 18:30:02 so: it was most likely eliots ghjost 18:30:11 CakeProphet: Not on /nick. 18:30:13 On connect, sure. 18:30:14 fizzie: Oh. 18:30:19 It's because of that SERVER NOBODY KNOWS. 18:30:28 ghjost server 18:30:31 (What a silly port it is.) 18:30:36 ghjost port 18:30:42 pretty sure I still keep ident if I go back to a nick I identified though. 18:30:43 fizzie: Ha, it: still doesn't work. 18:30:53 elliott: Oh, 25565. 18:30:58 elliott: I got it wrong too. 18:31:07 fizzie. You are making me sad. 18:31:17 It was 25566 on that SERVER NOBODY KNOWS, I think. 18:31:25 Right. 18:31:30 I do remember some off-by-oneing. 18:31:48 fizzie: Ha, it: still doesn't work. 18:31:50 Wow I 18:31:53 Literally said that lines ago 18:32:18 literally 18:32:20 lines in the past 18:32:23 That should be the right bort though. I hope it isn't cat's block-buffering. It could be. 18:32:24 whoa 18:32:41 In that case you'd need to put the other nc | tee inside the coproc like you wanted to, I suppose. 18:32:45 on a line-based communication protocol, in a time-based universe. 18:32:51 fizzie: GNU cat doesn't buffer. 18:33:12 Mhm. Then it might not be that. 18:33:46 elliott: your lines per second squared is decreasing right now. 18:33:53 but will spike up when you reply. 18:33:53 oh no 18:34:00 oh no 18:34:00 oh no 18:34:05 oh no 18:34:11 oh no 18:35:06 IRC physics. 18:35:20 or calculus I suppose. 18:35:27 irc: oh no 18:36:32 IRC physics! 18:36:37 Also dinner. 18:37:35 IRC dinner 18:37:46 string theorists, where is your sparticle now? 18:38:10 Spadness? This is sparticle 18:38:12 Spadness? This is sparticle. 18:38:19 bahahaha 18:38:21 RIP sparticle - died as it lived, somewhat sparta 18:40:15 I can't wait until we encounter some undiscovered law of physics that mutates CERN scientists into extra-dimensional horrors from the deep beyondness. 18:40:30 That already happened. 18:40:31 But CERN invented the world wide web 18:40:32 playing with particle physics is dangerous stuff. 18:40:34 The result is called "CERN scientists". 18:41:47 I think elliott is actually some kind of deep space cthuloid 18:42:01 -!- MSleep has joined. 18:42:08 communicating with FTL black magic. 18:42:29 over IRC, wikis, reddit and github. 18:42:55 extending the grip of his icy cephalopodic embrace. 18:43:04 into the mortal world. 18:43:12 It is the best part of being a Squiddle. 18:44:25 must be lonely in the endless void. 18:45:21 but perhaps cthuloids do not feeled the subdued throes of loneliness. 18:47:07 ...the creeping and measured atrophy of the soul. 18:48:45 perhaps they feel only the unslatable hunger of undoing. 18:49:27 -!- calamari has joined. 18:50:51 CakeProphet: No we just watch human cartoons, it's pretty great. 18:51:28 elliott: I enjoy Adventure Time. 18:51:31 as far as new cartoons. 18:51:42 perhaps this is an American thing though. 18:52:10 ais523: I think I'm going to switch to compiz myself, to fix that issue 18:53:04 fizzie: So um any ideas? 18:54:34 > 19 + 18 + 5 18:54:35 42 18:55:39 WOW DOUGLALJS ADAMS WAS RITE !!! 18:57:06 Douglas Adams was the best president. 18:57:33 > const 42 "How old did you have to be to become a consul in the days of the Roman Republic?" 18:57:34 42 18:57:42 elliott, yeah, except I meant to type 6, but my finger slipped. 18:59:04 @unpl flip const 18:59:04 (\ b c -> c) 18:59:11 @pl (\ b c -> c) 18:59:11 const id 18:59:20 hmm, that makes sense 18:59:27 reverse k and you get `ki 18:59:28 @let answer = asTypeOf "42" 18:59:29 Defined. 18:59:41 :t asTypeOf 18:59:42 forall a. a -> a -> a 18:59:51 const with a different type. 19:00:02 yep, seems to be a casting operator 19:00:22 elliott: Yeah: use named fifos. :p (I can try the coproc thing out in a moment.) 19:00:24 > answer "Why is Douglas Adams best U.S. peresident?" 19:00:26 "42" 19:04:56 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Doctor Who). 19:10:27 ais523: how do I convince someone I lost my ssh private key? 19:10:52 elliott: /did/ you lose your ssh private key? 19:11:04 Yes, but I doubt that fact makes it any easier or harder 19:11:08 then it worked on me 19:11:23 I suspect it depends on who it is 19:11:28 they should have some sort of password-recovery thing 19:11:29 my hosting company :P 19:11:33 and sending a new key is similar 19:11:35 ah, ouch 19:11:42 email them and say you lost it, see what their response is 19:11:48 they'll probably have some way to figure out who you are 19:12:02 I suspect they trust my email, since I sent the public key across it in the first place 19:12:45 Wow. An artificial rat cerebellum was constructed and hooked up to actual rats. 19:13:13 It functions. 19:13:37 congratulations, science 19:14:21 pikhq: is the rat acting like a rat? 19:14:31 Ah. It only really replaced a small portion of the cerebellum's functioning. But jesus, it worked at all. 19:15:03 ais523: do you know any way to access an ssh server with only one logginable account and it only accepts key logins.... 19:15:28 physical access? 19:15:33 no... 19:15:36 (assuming you aren't counting "having the key") 19:15:45 that would be a problem... 19:16:17 the whole point of the key login is that you can't get in any other way without physical access, so you're basically asking "do you have any exploits for sshd" 19:16:30 for which my answer is "no, that'd be out of character for me and if I did, what makes you think I'd give them to you?" 19:16:48 ais523: Didn't really say. Though, its primary function is motor control... 19:17:10 ais523: because I neeeeeed them 19:17:25 I'm so glad fizzie fixed my bug. 19:17:32 Now he just needs to get me into my server. 19:17:39 Sorry, we had a thing. 19:18:00 at least you didn't lose the only copy of the key to a bitcoin wallet containing bitcoins worth millions of dollars 19:18:06 which one bitcoin exchange apparently did 19:18:15 (and ofc, how can you tell if it's really the only copy or not?) 19:18:47 fizzie: Things happen a lot. 19:18:51 ais523: heh 19:19:57 oh no out of battery 19:20:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:21:41 aha, hmm 19:21:53 I wonder if CraftBukkit lets you execute arbitrary commands on the server if you're an op? :P 19:25:46 -!- augur has joined. 19:27:25 elliott: http://p.zem.fi/wldb worked for me, at least "./test.sh c.nerd.nu" did when I started it immediately before direct-connecting to 127.0.0.1. It has a bit of a problem in that the nc in the pipeline connects to the server immediately, and I believe it will probably timeout at some point when the server gets tired of waiting. 19:27:57 You can drop the -v -v -v from the latter netcat, I was just using it to check when it connects. 19:28:45 fizzie: Well, I can always just swap around the way of things. 19:29:14 No matter where you put it, all the processes of the pipeline will get started immediately, and thus it'll try to connect before the "nc -l" gets the client. 19:30:55 Not such a huge problem if you just don't let it idle, though. 19:31:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:31:36 fizzie: Hmm. 19:31:49 fizzie: Well, I've waited minutes to do it with no problems before. 19:31:55 With my old pipeline. 19:32:15 Could be the servers are just patient. 19:32:19 I'unno. 19:32:51 It's a quality of pipes that it starts all the parts, and it's a quality of netcat that it connects immediately, instead of "wait for any input from stdin before actually connecting"ing. 19:53:44 vitriolic petrol. 19:53:50 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:54:19 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:57:55 fizzie: I'll try that after I've done this safety procedure. 19:59:59 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:00:44 -!- atehwa has joined. 20:09:44 water melon 20:16:48 -!- augur has joined. 20:23:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:25:44 fizzie: I doubt that kill will help. 20:25:45 Since -e is on. 20:26:14 kill everyone, i say 20:26:54 fizzie: Oh, duh. 20:27:00 The nc -l argument was 25556. 20:27:04 No wonder I couldn't connect previously. 20:35:58 PSPACE=NPSPACE. really? 20:36:04 yes, really. 20:36:41 CakeProphet: ^ 20:36:54 a quite elegant theorem, too. 20:46:09 -!- derdon has joined. 20:46:16 CakeProhpet: pretty obviously, just run all the possibilities one after the other 20:46:22 it's not quite _that_ obvious. 20:49:38 I know 20:49:46 it's not trivially provable 20:49:51 because if you try to encode the entire evolution of an NP machine, you will find that it does _not_ fit in polynomial space 20:50:00 i think. 20:50:22 er 20:50:36 *nondeterministic machine with polynomial space 21:00:47 ais523: good news, they seem to accept an email as confirmation of a new ssh key 21:00:58 yay 21:01:03 looks like my plan worked 21:01:08 ais523: they do email it back to confirm, which I guess is rudimentary anti-email-MITM protection 21:01:11 I'm surprised that you didn't come up with it on your own 21:01:12 even if it doesn't really work 21:01:15 oh, I did 21:01:21 it requires the email to be MITMed both ways 21:01:22 I was just wondering if there might be a more convincing method :P 21:01:28 which is harder than MITMing it just one way 21:01:41 although probably not much harder 21:01:45 ais523: I was going to say that the most likely scenario seemed like Google MITMing it 21:01:48 but I... guess that's not true 21:02:05 it's unlikely that Google would MitM your email connection just to hack into one server 21:02:12 now to sort out a shipping address problem... being an adult totally sucks, let me tell you 21:02:21 it'd be something far too minor for them to throw away their reputation over 21:02:34 elliott: indeed, I think I agree with you there 21:02:38 ais523: I dunno, man... Minecraft is at stake... 21:02:39 I hate people forcing me to be an adult 21:03:10 Truly, Sgeo is keeping the secret of eternal youthfulness from us all. 21:04:19 i used to be eternally youthful, but i lost it 21:04:49 That happens a lot 21:14:36 being an adult is like being a kid but with more stuff you have to do. 21:14:39 Ah. It only really replaced a small portion of the cerebellum's functioning. But jesus, it worked at all. 21:14:44 uploading, here we come? 21:15:05 oerjan: Synthetic zombie food, here we come? 21:15:32 fizzie: _FINALLY_ we can have robot zombies 21:15:34 That would be the best way to control the outbreak. 21:15:44 "Here you go, here's brains. No, get off me, that's not civilised." 21:16:31 sadly we still cannot have mutant ninja pirate robot zombie dinosaurs. 21:16:59 (mutant is incompatible with robot, i think) 21:18:08 Maybe a mutant ninja pirate cyborg zombie dinosaur could do in a pinch. 21:18:15 maybe. 21:18:52 How can I be stopped from making this commit message from not being able to come up with a single word. 21:18:53 I am useless. 21:19:12 elliott: supercalifragilisticexpialidocious 21:19:17 yw 21:19:19 No WRONG 21:19:19 `word 50 21:19:22 nakepaputassienekapofierrionm anniemens ened oepashill jundepplad unda bola rotorepteldf earjobas hakelwalus lianna hos kon coper pctoruntamense cop fultiontialplinsuphorthys eudotearnithorriatickhre affenciagromenrcapunstranioneurphil luelinthencerrch ejcsed ova manaklinti z cocysicha fj sachy lithed ritisayadifiestistn 21:19:22 elliott: there you go. 21:19:34 NONE OF THOSE CAN REPLACE "GET" 21:19:36 Also they do those "electronic circuits from genetic algorithms" things, all the results are by definition mutants, assuming there has been some mutation going on. 21:19:38 I like how it generated a 0-length word there. 21:20:02 elliott: huh. that's odd. I guess there's a null string somewhere in the dataset? 21:20:09 er. no... that wouldn't match my filter regex. 21:20:15 [[:alpha:]+ not * 21:20:36 elliott: obtain, receive, acquire 21:20:48 Add a log-packets script to get packet dumps" 21:20:51 They don't really work there :P 21:21:14 steal, rob, kidnap 21:21:44 http://thesaurus.com/browse/get 21:21:46 capture? 21:21:54 Sense 11 21:21:55 get, catch, capture => seize, prehend, clutch 21:21:55 Sense 12 21:21:55 grow, develop, produce, get, acquire => change 21:22:02 (WordNet.) 21:22:04 Capture might be right; isn't that what Wireshark calls it? 21:22:15 procure? educe? 21:22:19 extract? 21:22:25 reap! 21:22:47 Snarf. 21:22:55 spy 21:23:01 Yoink. 21:23:22 Sense 28 21:23:22 get, get under one's skin => annoy, rag, get to, bother, get at, irritate, rile, nark, nettle, gravel, vex, chafe, devil 21:23:27 Not that sense. 21:23:58 monitor 21:24:28 produce 21:24:58 Snoop. Lawfully intercept. 21:25:20 audit 21:25:31 Audit body thetans. 21:25:36 E-meter. 21:25:42 demeter 21:26:02 Channel. 21:26:42 divert 21:26:56 Dowse for. 21:26:57 * CakeProphet just sat through a video of someone castrating themself. 21:27:07 where would I be without the internet. 21:27:17 CakeProphet: sane? 21:27:20 probably. 21:27:51 it's likely that it was fake though 21:29:29 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:29:42 -!- elliott has joined. 21:29:53 Grr. 21:30:31 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 21:30:32 -!- elliott has joined. 21:30:32 yes the video has been confirmed to be fake. 21:30:56 but now why do I feel like I've been ripped off? 21:31:08 that's good, since you cannot be traumatized by fake videos. 21:31:45 it was only mildly disconcerting to me thanks to ridiculous amounts of desensitation. 21:32:15 I just feel like I've been shorted now... I wanted to witness the real deal. How fucked up. 21:33:56 -!- tiffany has joined. 21:34:27 oerjan: yikes, apparently Hackage has no access control 21:36:16 huh 21:37:07 CakeProphet: this must be how serial killers are made. 21:37:29 oerjan: yes clearly. 21:37:51 * CakeProphet is a serial killer in the making. 21:37:59 where is my bonesaw? 21:38:09 I think I lost it. 21:38:43 oh look bonesaw online for $51 21:38:58 Our design met with your good taste. Since 1864 Coltellerie Sanelli manufactures knives and knives blocks for professionals using the same care ... 21:39:01 bahahahaha. good taste. 21:39:31 the taste of testicles 21:39:36 I should write some bonesaw reviews. 21:40:55 "Yes this product worked like a charm. Very useful for clean amputations near the base of the limbs to ease transpotation of the body. Made very precise incisions and cut through the bone like butter" 21:41:20 highly recommend. 21:44:17 wow sears sells bonesaws? why. 21:45:40 What do people use bonesaws for besides surgery and maybe hunting? 21:45:48 *normal people 21:46:24 well I guess you don't /have/ to cut bones with a bonesaw. I guess you could use it as a normal saw. 21:49:27 "we sell a lot of them in northern mexico" 21:50:12 oh people cut steak apparently. 21:50:25 that's what they all say. 21:51:01 ah here we go a post mortem bone saw for $62 21:51:33 oerjan: is there an alphabetical constructor in the stdlib? :P 21:51:36 exported that is 21:51:40 wat 21:51:45 like 21:51:47 not an operator 21:51:53 $300 for a powered surgical bonesaw apparently. 21:52:08 Left, Right, Just, Nothing? 21:52:13 oh 1950s era too. vintage. 21:52:24 oerjan: oh thanks 21:52:26 :P 21:52:52 i suspect there is only one _non-alphabetical_ one, : 21:53:01 right 21:53:07 ok it's showsPrec 11 I want 21:53:14 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 21:53:16 wat 21:53:27 is that even supposed to work. 21:53:28 oerjan: (,) says wut. 21:53:34 class Packet a where 21:53:34 packetName :: a -> String 21:53:34 packetShowsFieldsPrec :: Int -> a -> [(String,ShowS)] 21:53:37 good class 21:53:39 oerjan: eh? 21:53:42 of course it is 21:53:50 how do you think constructor fields are showed 21:53:56 elliott: i didn't know showsPrec 11 was supposed to work 21:53:56 Foo 9 (A b c) 99 21:53:57 elliott: o.O 21:54:04 copumpkin: o.O at what? 21:54:07 oerjan: it's like turning the knob up to 11 21:54:09 oerjan: look at derived show instances sometime 21:54:25 For example, given the declarations 21:54:25 infixr 5 :^: 21:54:25 data Tree a = Leaf a | Tree a :^: Tree a 21:54:25 the derived instance of Show is equivalent to 21:54:25 instance (Show a) => Show (Tree a) where 21:54:25 showsPrec d (Leaf m) = showParen (d > app_prec) $ 21:54:25 elliott: well but they're ghc specific 21:54:27 showString "Leaf " . showsPrec (app_prec+1) m 21:54:29 where app_prec = 10 21:54:31 showsPrec d (u :^: v) = showParen (d > up_prec) $ 21:54:33 showsPrec (up_prec+1) u . 21:54:35 showString " :^: " . 21:54:37 showsPrec (up_prec+1) v 21:54:39 where up_prec = 5 21:54:41 lol flood 21:54:43 oerjan: how would /you/ write an instance for 21:54:45 data Foo a = Nope | Foo a a 21:54:47 a Show instance, that is 21:54:49 "the operator precedence of the enclosing context (a number from 0 to 11). Function application has precedence 10." --showsPrec 21:54:55 aha 21:56:29 wtf I can buy chloroform online 21:56:46 well, time to go kidnapping. 21:57:15 man I didn't know it was this easy to be a serial killer. 21:57:39 like I don't even have to leave my house to get all of the tools. 21:58:03 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 21:58:21 :t showsPrec 21:58:22 forall a. (Show a) => Int -> a -> String -> String 21:58:29 OK guys, I am making this decision through democracy. 21:58:33 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:58:42 Which is better: tuxedo or Indiana Jones costume? 21:59:05 copumpkin: Is there any way to make ghc not emit warnings about TH-generated code? 21:59:10 : Warning: Defined but not used: `prec_azgu' 21:59:11 I MEAN COME ON 21:59:27 -!- calamari has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:59:31 Pharmtom_Hoover: they are equally bad things. 21:59:35 Wait, no, the tuxedo hat sucks. 21:59:44 oerjan: (,) says wut. <-- ah right, that one doesn't follow usual operator syntax though. 21:59:45 Jones it is. 22:00:33 elliott: ghc is like a stern but lenient mother. 22:00:42 "tsk tsk elliott" 22:02:02 !haskell data Sum a = One a | Sum a :+ Sum a deriving Show; infixl 5 :+; main = print $ One 1 :+ One 2 :+ One 3 :+ (One 4 :+ One 5) 22:02:08 ​((One 1 :+ One 2) :+ One 3) :+ (One 4 :+ One 5) 22:02:29 ignoring associativity it is, then. 22:04:03 there should really be a mapShows 22:04:05 probably to help people with dissociative identity disorder. 22:04:10 erm 22:04:13 concatMapShows 22:04:16 or showConcatMap for consistency I guess 22:04:22 showConcatMap :: (a -> ShowS) -> [a] -> ShowS 22:04:47 showConcatMap f = foldr (.) 22:04:51 erm 22:04:55 showConcatMap f = foldr (\x r -> f x . r) 22:05:04 id 22:05:07 or foldr (.) id . map f I suppose 22:07:44 :t foldr ?f id 22:07:45 forall a a1. (?f::a -> (a1 -> a1) -> a1 -> a1) => [a] -> a1 -> a1 22:08:07 WOTC is fail. They apparently managed to fuck up the current Oracle update. Because of this, everything with color not matching its casting cost has apparently ceased to have that color. 22:08:09 wat 22:08:12 FAIL 22:08:54 oh hm 22:09:40 WOTC? 22:09:52 Wizards of the Coast. Makers of Magic. 22:10:35 :t ($id).foldr 22:10:36 forall a a1. (a1 -> (a -> a) -> a -> a) -> [a1] -> a -> a 22:10:37 Perhaps you might have said that when zzo was here? 22:10:55 Perhaps. 22:10:57 argh 22:12:14 oh 22:12:30 :t foldr :: (a -> ShowS) -> [a] -> ShowS 22:12:32 Couldn't match expected type `a' against inferred type `Char' 22:12:32 `a' is a rigid type variable bound by 22:12:32 an expression type signature at :1:10 22:12:35 bah 22:13:44 :t flip . foldr :: (a -> ShowS) -> [a] -> ShowS 22:13:45 forall a. (a -> ShowS) -> [a] -> String -> String 22:13:54 elliott: there you go :P 22:15:54 > (flip . foldr $ showIntAtBase 7 intToDigit) [1..10] "" 22:15:55 "12345610111213" 22:22:08 elliott: part of this is the realization that foldr (.) id = flip (foldr ($)) 22:22:49 = flip (foldr id) as well i guess 22:23:45 that is, in a sense you don't need to combine the functions before you start applying them. 22:25:11 oerjan: how profound. 22:25:23 de profundis 22:25:54 i just tend to recall that whenever i see someone write foldr (.) id 22:27:52 oerjan: right 22:28:26 * Pharmtom_Hoover → sleep 22:29:36 -!- Pharmtom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:33:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:35:04 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:43:50 "But it seems to me that he's essentially saying that there are too many natural numbers; that the set of natural numbers admits members that are too large to be successors of 0." 22:43:51 Oh, mathematics. 22:52:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:55:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:17:51 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:19:26 hi I'm CakeProphet 23:19:37 elliott: what 23:19:46 too large to be succesors of 0??? 23:19:56 where is this from. 23:20:18 do they know how successor works? and like... infinity and stuff? 23:20:18 proposed proof sketch of peano inconsistency 23:20:24 http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/ksg7f/peano_arithmetic_inconsistent/ 23:20:32 CakeProphet: i think it's more that _you_ don't know how those work 23:20:34 (neither do I, really) 23:20:38 (not to this degree) 23:21:30 oh sure, successors look simple, but try doing them graham's number of times... 23:21:31 how can a natural number be too large to not be a successors of 0. is all I'm wondering. 23:21:43 CakeProphet: because foundations are really weird. 23:21:47 more specifically 23:21:49 define successor 23:21:51 (formally) 23:22:00 I think that's already been done for me hasn't it 23:22:21 perhaps not well enough, it seems. 23:22:50 okay I mean it's possible it's inconsistent sure, but out of context that statement you quoted just sounds really really dumb. 23:23:15 because it's a simplification 23:25:14 http://www.math.princeton.edu/~nelson/papers/outline.pdf 23:25:24 kind of rambley if you ask me. :P 23:26:58 what 23:27:11 it's really compact if you ask me 23:27:23 compact and hard to follow. 23:27:37 ITT: you don't have a phd in mathematics. well, yet. 23:28:17 are you suggesting that I may one day have a phd in mathematics? 23:28:46 hmm. well you'd need a brain transplant, but anything's possible. peano arithmetic might even beinconsistent. 23:29:16 based on plenty of actual real evidence I think this guy is just a finitist-hater. 23:29:17 "... that after his shooting in 1881, U.S. President Garfield was treated by Doctor Doctor Bliss (pictured)?" 23:29:22 doctor /doctor/? 23:29:28 nothing in the article about that... 23:29:39 CakeProphet: he's a constructivist, but also a respected mathematician outside of that 23:30:10 whenever I get my math phd and people ask me what my stances are. 23:30:19 I'll just be all like "yo dawg I'm a realist" 23:30:49 and I'll write the best papers 23:30:54 "We are all Platonists in our youth." --the guy 23:31:02 no brain transplant required. 23:31:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:31:13 the guy? 23:31:13 "In this book is the first appearance of L'Hôpital's rule. The rule is believed to be the work of Johann Bernoulli since l'Hôpital, a nobleman, paid Bernoulli a retainer of 300₣ per year to keep him updated on developments in calculus and to solve problems he had. Moreover, the two signed a contract allowing l'Hôpital to use Bernoulli's discoveries in any way he wished." 23:31:15 haha awesome 23:31:16 CakeProphet: nelson 23:31:31 ah 23:31:43 man this guy sure cares a lot about isms 23:32:17 um considering the paper i quoted that from was about isms... 23:32:26 well, indirectly 23:32:53 I wasn't really sure what it was about because it didn't have a clear title. 23:32:57 not that one. 23:32:58 unless you're talking about a different paper 23:32:59 ah 23:33:00 the one I quoted it from. 23:34:00 Diffusion, Quantum Theory, and Radically Elementary mathematics 23:34:02 RADICAL 23:34:29 EXTREMEEEEE MATHEMATICS. 23:34:40 oh wait that's already a thing kind of. 23:38:42 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:39:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_Log_(TV_program) 23:39:33 I... 23:41:17 bahahaha 23:41:20 America is the best. 23:41:39 During 2005, Tribune began making a version of the Yule Log video recorded in AVI format available for download, advertising it as a "Portable Yule Log" for those traveling. 23:41:57 The program was both a critical and ratings success, and by popular demand, it was rebroadcast for 23 consecutive years, beginning during 1967. 23:42:00 critical? 23:42:06 MC/Protocol/Server.hs:10:1: 23:42:06 Kind incompatibility when matching types: 23:42:06 a0 :: * 23:42:06 ghc-prim:GHC.Prim.Word# :: # 23:42:06 In the first argument of `show', namely `0##' 23:42:07 In the first argument of `Debug.Trace.trace', namely `show 0##' 23:42:09 In a stmt of a 'do' block: Debug.Trace.trace (show 0##) (return ()) 23:42:11 oerjan: oops. 23:42:14 CakeProphet: It's art. 23:42:26 Also during 2008, animation director PES released a free screensaver that reimagined the Yule Log in food, with pretzels for the log and candy corn for the flames. 23:43:02 http://www.yuleagogo.com/ 23:43:03 I... 23:43:41 bahahahaha 23:43:56 man that's a big log. 23:44:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:45:51 :( 23:48:40 monqy: :( 23:49:08 :) 23:50:48 elliott: show (Word# 0##) maybe? 23:50:59 or whatever the constructor is 23:51:02 oerjan: I kept around the original word so it's OK 23:51:08 and I think W# 23:51:08 ?src Word 23:51:09 Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing 23:51:16 grr 23:52:13 also... 23:52:22 @hoogle traceShow 23:52:23 Debug.Trace traceShow :: Show a => a -> b -> b 23:56:50 oh thank you :) 23:56:52 "The value of the progress bar. The maximum values vary depending on the progress bar. Presumably the values are specified as in-game ticks. Some progress bar values increase, while others decrease. For furnaces, 0 is empty, full progress arrow = about 180, full fire icon = about 250)" 23:56:53 augh