< 1318464690 632230 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1318465159 498199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1318467524 483256 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1318467548 185124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "Anglo-Caledonian diplomacy and sword games" but you should do card game instead? < 1318468048 828214 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Anglo-Caledonian diplomacy and card games | Welcome to the international hub for exoteric voodoo programming design and deployment! | computed jumps... the topic. | 12345678^&!* | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1318468059 413287 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1318468241 398359 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been trying to decide what two spells to select for the Dungeons&Dragons game; my brother has not selected anything for the next level yet. < 1318468250 331975 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have selected everything except for the spells. < 1318468277 583622 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^welcome < 1318468279 111741 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome < 1318468284 420068 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found < 1318468285 702580 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bluh? < 1318468389 100947 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?welcome < 1318468391 88594 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?welcome: not found < 1318468392 112919 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errf < 1318468394 145840 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1318468396 440909 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1318468620 341593 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which spell should be selected? Shield? Resistance? Extend Tentacles? Death to the Caster? Prohibit Metamagic? Merciful to Gibbering Mouthers? Object Mirrored? Spell Repetition? Breath Energy Mixture? Area of Mercy? Spell that nobody understands? < 1318468806 625136 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318468812 491615 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object Mirrored is a spell I invented, which makes an object mirror-imaged of itself. < 1318468890 589285 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are some restrictions on its use: The center of gravity must not be moved more than six inches from its original location. The new position of the object must share at least one point in common with the old position of the object. The transformation must not cause any parts of the object to be moved through barriers that are not part of the target object. < 1318468914 573461 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the target object is supporting something, you must not transform it as to make it no longer supporting the thing it is currently supporting. If the target object is being supported by something, you must not transform it to make it no longer supported by anything (although it does not necessarily have to be supported by the same thing as before). < 1318468940 361556 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must not make it touching something it was not previously touching. Effects of mirroring molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles, is ignored. Any creature gets a +4 bonus to the saving throw of this spell if it would be fatal (or sufficiently harmful) to that creature. < 1318469967 141666 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318469988 654374 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318470049 370803 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-174.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1318470734 510189 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dennis Ritchie apparently died recently < 1318470766 635236 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318471058 183547 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awww. < 1318471503 148032 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Dennis Ritchie :( < 1318471504 353678 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP Dennis Ritchie :( < 1318471673 482645 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Segmentation Fault < 1318472195 338951 :CakeProphet!~eris@h220.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318472195 527627 :CakeProphet!~eris@h220.37.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1318472195 527783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1318472819 35159 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable: D-8 < 1318472840 539626 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-78.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1318473138 588992 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318473258 714712 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1318473262 256284 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318473383 933919 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know a good calculator for matrix math? < 1318473392 363158 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing fancy, just needs to do multiplication and variables < 1318473604 593619 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a haskell library that ought to do < 1318473665 817568 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble implementing A* in C# for university. There's no priorityqueue class so I'm not sure what kind of collection I should be using. < 1318473925 64226 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set < 1318473941 981632 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :will a set be efficient? < 1318473952 291702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1318474242 415701 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that library sucks < 1318474373 900412 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be something that can use the functional representation system that I designed; it ought to be possible some Haskell compilers, and possibly other programs too, to be able to compile to and/or from it. It is designed, no unsafe function, no side effects, no unsafeCoerce, etc < 1318474611 267345 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It means not all Haskell programs could be compiled to it, but most could.) < 1318476043 115719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, even programs containing unsafeCoerce could be compiled, if you first changed the unsafeCoerce to a safe code having the same effect, such as (unsafeCoerce :: Maybe a -> Bool) into (maybe False $ const True)) < 1318476569 353380 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-153-125.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318477108 461698 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: < 1318477108 966985 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Unsafe.Coerce> unsafeCoerce (last $ [unsafeCoerce 1 :: (), unsafeCoerce "test" :: ()]) :: String < 1318477109 113790 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :"test" < 1318477109 114023 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Unsafe.Coerce> unsafeCoerce (last $ reverse $ [unsafeCoerce 1 :: (), unsafeCoerce "test" :: ()]) :: Int < 1318477109 114139 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1318477112 795833 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do that without unsafeCoerce. < 1318477298 194579 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 < 1318477299 89685 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1318477317 645616 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 :: Int < 1318477318 502110 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1318477319 992552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad. < 1318477376 911204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toDyn < 1318477377 838047 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => a -> Dynamic < 1318477383 249067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromDyn < 1318477384 190269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => Dynamic -> a -> a < 1318477441 711690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromDynamic < 1318477442 611497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Typeable a) => Dynamic -> Maybe a < 1318477463 272939 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((`fromDyn` 0) . last . reverse $ [toDyn 1, toDyn "test"]) :: Int < 1318477464 836662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1318477476 951287 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1318477485 443862 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((`fromDyn` 0) . last . reverse $ [toDyn (1::Int), toDyn "test"]) :: Int < 1318477487 47427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1318477491 38875 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1318477496 99633 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : public float calcH(int X, int Y, int goalX, int goalY) < 1318477496 455017 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1318477496 601605 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (X - goalX) ^ 2 + (Y - goalY) ^ 2; < 1318477496 601789 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1318477498 193219 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spot the error < 1318477509 116625 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java? < 1318477516 78149 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# < 1318477527 805765 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is ^ in C# < 1318477534 366205 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise xor < 1318477539 743587 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You got it < 1318477543 825890 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it was producing crrrrrazy paths < 1318477548 905451 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :That went this way and that way it was lol < 1318477555 613091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want uh... Math.pow I think. < 1318477557 874072 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1318477579 204047 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just use multiplication, is the other way < 1318477580 547915 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: but yeah ^^^ is one way to do it. < 1318477639 5659 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, can you implement that without unsafeCoerce? < 1318477659 680946 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.... don't remember. < 1318477667 633402 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may use unsafeCoerce underneath. < 1318477672 793288 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src toDyn < 1318477673 78564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :toDyn v = Dynamic (typeOf v) (unsafeCoerce v) < 1318477683 972796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1318477684 994129 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src fromDynamic < 1318477685 268026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromDynamic (Dynamic t v) = case unsafeCoerce v of < 1318477685 485956 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : r | t == typeOf r -> Just r < 1318477685 632516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise -> Nothing < 1318477693 64783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay well I think you could do a Typeable existential. < 1318477703 527302 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could, but I don't think they had existentials back then < 1318477725 379330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then? this is the context of the past? < 1318477735 246524 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought you were talking about Dynamic < 1318477753 928824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. no. but yeah you can represent Dynamic with a Typeable existential. < 1318477771 140786 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about basically a different approach to dynamic typing that would be explicit form of one way to implement Dynamic. < 1318477774 716185 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Dynamic < 1318477775 513163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Dynamic' < 1318477781 927583 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Dynamic < 1318477782 218941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Wrong! You cheating scum! < 1318477801 25939 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1318477818 120988 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :() is completely safe to unsafeCoerce to, as you can't do anything to it, right? < 1318477834 744365 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pattern match it but that's all I can think of. < 1318477848 214148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle () -> a < 1318477848 547671 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies demanding :: a -> Done -> a < 1318477848 832548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel.Strategies sparking :: a -> Done -> a < 1318477848 979302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1318477852 808924 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By safe, I mean "no risk of damage to underlying data or segFault, assuming you arn't casting to the wrong type") < 1318477865 642815 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1318477881 998692 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok my game is getting retarded slowdowns. How can I profile in visual studio 2011? < 1318477907 552579 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=C%23+profiling < 1318477909 530034 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a wizard. < 1318477919 582361 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wowza < 1318478449 435205 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I wonder how I'd code a mandelbrot set in Haskell. < 1318478673 813285 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iterated function part would obviously be f c = iterate ((+c).(**2)) 0 < 1318478700 405887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where c is a (Num a) => Complex a < 1318478775 943764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, just Complex a would be fine < 1318478785 811159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's a is constrained to RealFloat < 1318478798 943818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1318479046 474368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd have something like Complex -> Pixel < 1318479092 120865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or (a,a) -> Pixel < 1318479553 881818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mandel p escape max_iter = takeWhile (\(i, x) -> x < escape && i < max_iter ) $ zip [0..] (f p) < 1318479557 582383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\(i, x) -> x < escape && i < max_iter ) < 1318479557 929916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncurry (flip ((&&) . (< escape)) . (< max_iter)) < 1318479595 880248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1318479601 891585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not complete at all though < 1318479628 436153 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toMaybe < 1318479629 244461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `toMaybe' < 1318479638 514643 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> Maybe a < 1318479638 828333 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Maybe listToMaybe :: [a] -> Maybe a < 1318479639 139537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List find :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1318479639 286176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude head :: [a] -> a < 1318479704 926068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a,a) -> Complex a < 1318479705 398144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude snd :: (a, b) -> b < 1318479705 679630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Tuple snd :: (a, b) -> b < 1318479705 826341 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude fst :: (a, b) -> a < 1318479720 749274 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixel c escape max_iter = listToMaybe $ dropWhile (\(i, x) -> x < escape && i < max_iter ) $ zip [0..] (f c) < 1318479738 84124 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \a -> Complex (fst a) (snd a) < 1318479738 365571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncurry Complex < 1318479738 676696 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very simple escape time algorithm. < 1318479746 106598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1318479749 707651 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry < 1318479750 488576 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1318479753 443069 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1318479828 371004 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry Complex < 1318479829 265741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Complex' < 1318479841 36833 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::+ < 1318479848 253677 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t a -> a -> Complex a < 1318479849 120064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `->' < 1318479856 820841 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> a -> Complex a < 1318479857 347609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Complex (:+) :: a -> a -> Complex a < 1318479857 555398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Complex mkPolar :: RealFloat a => a -> a -> Complex a < 1318479857 701953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude asTypeOf :: a -> a -> a < 1318479861 528324 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1318479863 511657 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: do you know what :t does? :P < 1318479866 34061 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry (:+) < 1318479866 889207 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (RealFloat a) => (a, a) -> Complex a < 1318479868 786047 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yes. I derped < 1318480017 975602 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (RealFloat a) => (a, a) -> Complex a < 1318480018 206573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Undefined type Complex < 1318480085 916983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: WHY DO YOU NOT EXIST ANYMORE. < 1318480115 95506 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott TODO: convince Gregor to put ghc and runhaskell on hackego < 1318480115 355716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1318480122 176886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ghc --version < 1318480125 215416 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.2.1 < 1318480134 465471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run runhaskell --version < 1318480136 769863 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :runghc 7.2.1 < 1318480149 69331 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott ...oh nevermind. < 1318480149 354724 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1318480553 272602 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318480903 541939 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-78.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1318480910 40693 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-166.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318480918 304525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho\'\$1\' \| runghc' > /bin/haskell < 1318480920 254262 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1318480968 966865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho' \'\$1\' \| runghc > /bin/haskell < 1318480970 495637 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: /bin/haskell: Read-only file system < 1318480978 274367 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho' \'\$1\' \| runghc > bin/haskell < 1318480980 180589 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318480988 603234 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "HUG!" < 1318480990 543336 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUG! < 1318481000 696588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell 'main = putStrLn "Hello, World!"' < 1318481002 534032 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/haskell: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/haskell: cannot execute: Success < 1318481006 12583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1318481008 859505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1318481016 306509 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/haskell < 1318481018 143454 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318481019 24358 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell 'main = putStrLn "Hello, World!"' < 1318481020 662923 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/haskell: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/haskell: cannot execute: Success < 1318481031 333533 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1318481063 942928 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn "Hello, World~♪" < 1318481110 945936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run stat -c %A bin/haskell < 1318481112 692685 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x < 1318481116 7751 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat bin/haskell < 1318481118 174489 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ echo '$1' | runghc < 1318481196 151566 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1318481228 866952 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho' \"$1\" \| runghc > bin/haskell < 1318481230 945568 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318481234 867220 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho' \"\$1\" \| runghc > bin/haskell < 1318481237 36683 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318481242 227858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/haskell < 1318481243 838976 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$1" | runghc < 1318481260 805422 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run haskell 'main = putStrLn "Hello, World!"' < 1318481265 663657 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1318481311 544817 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho' \"\$@\" \| runghc > bin/haskell < 1318481313 156641 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318481320 358783 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run haskell main = putStrLn "Hello, World!" < 1318481324 576650 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX278.hs:1:22: parse error on input `,' < 1318481328 272115 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1318481332 125951 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right. < 1318481395 565352 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I can get bash to automatically escape quotes magically. < 1318481536 164651 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e test < 1318481538 243303 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1318481540 191034 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo -e test < 1318481542 217100 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-e test < 1318481554 288253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it just automatically quotes the entire line when written without run < 1318481589 640182 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell main = putStrLn "Hello, World!" < 1318481593 890641 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1318481632 690908 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one less reason to have egobot, it seems. < 1318481744 717255 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though userinterps are pretty convenient. < 1318481817 882695 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1318481819 435154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; main = print (unsafeCoerce (2 :+ 2 :: Complex Int) :: (Int, Int)) < 1318481824 303899 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX278.hs:1:53: Not in scope: data constructor `:+' \ \ /tmp/runghcXXXX278.hs:1:61: \ Not in scope: type constructor or class `Complex' < 1318481836 455454 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; import Data.Complex; main = print (unsafeCoerce (2 :+ 2 :: Complex Int) :: (Int, Int)) < 1318481840 595593 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​(2,2) < 1318481895 982584 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce; main = print $ map isJust [Maybe (), Nothing] < 1318481900 310377 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX278.hs:1:100: Not in scope: data constructor `Maybe' < 1318481906 614820 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell import Unsafe.Coerce; isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce; main = print $ map isJust [Just (), Nothing] < 1318481910 823437 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[True,False] < 1318482068 863080 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noice. < 1318482104 676854 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho' \"\$@\" \| runghc > bin/runperl < 1318482106 535716 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318482110 32555 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/runperl < 1318482111 616446 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318482114 379688 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print "test" < 1318482119 515851 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX278.hs:1:1: \ Parse error: naked expression at top level < 1318482125 78147 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....er < 1318482126 636616 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol oops < 1318482134 623569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to clothe my expressions. < 1318482145 43893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho' \"\$@\" \| perl > bin/runperl < 1318482147 208233 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318482151 192331 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically speaking I don't think it as much "quotes the line" as it just runs the first argument given the line as argv[1] without involving a shell. < 1318482158 708444 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print "test" < 1318482160 864311 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1318482182 94772 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much better than perl -e, though a bit more limited in that I can't use all of perl's other wonderful options. < 1318482272 108243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`python --version < 1318482274 115795 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python 2.7 < 1318482341 890173 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho' \"\$@\" \| python - > bin/runpython < 1318482343 933772 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318482352 996471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/runpython < 1318482354 979371 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318482361 894282 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runpython print "Hello, World!" < 1318482364 934138 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World! < 1318482415 284983 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runpython print __name__ < 1318482417 508870 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​__main__ < 1318482439 856827 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nech... oh derp < 1318482445 726899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best scheme. < 1318482450 838765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION names all of his python modules __main__ < 1318482465 55876 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I can't imagine Python working really all that well when only given one line < 1318482481 790537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runpython x = 2; y =3; print x+y < 1318482484 76115 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1318482485 893745 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: yeah me neither < 1318482493 762292 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :loops will be not so great though. < 1318482505 125854 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if statements also will not be so great. < 1318482522 840872 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, I guess you kind of can < 1318482526 224834 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why Python is bad. < 1318482537 236917 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because one-liners aren't feasible? < 1318482542 212895 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1318482555 831939 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad for HackEgo, maybe, but < 1318482573 774488 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runpython 1 if False else 0 < 1318482575 690151 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318482576 510553 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad for simple code generation also. < 1318482586 994044 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runpython print 1 if False else 0 < 1318482588 747537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you only want to output some code that isn't intended to be read by humans. < 1318482589 177303 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1318482597 494109 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to keep track of the indent level < 1318482662 513210 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runpython x=5; (x+=1 if True else 0); print x < 1318482664 745185 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :File "", line 1 \ x=5; (x+=1 if True else 0); print x \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1318482672 830679 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't really expect that to work < 1318482683 851325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you even write that. < 1318482691 664848 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who knows anything about Python would know that wouldn't work ever. < 1318482726 695984 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't hurt to try? < 1318482820 248316 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print (x=5)?(x+=1):0 < 1318482822 499062 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify constant item in scalar assignment at - line 1, near "5)" \ Execution of - aborted due to compilation errors. < 1318482826 796763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooo < 1318482835 889016 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print ($x=5)?($x+=1):0 < 1318482838 293176 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1318482842 617429 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooo < 1318482853 804573 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print (($x=5)?($x+=1):0) < 1318482855 483949 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1318482859 964169 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can just... < 1318482866 387329 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print ($x=5?$x+=1:0) < 1318482868 239906 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1318482870 544870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooo. damn you precedence. < 1318482957 82470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: you can actually use source filters to give Perl source code Python-style blocks < 1318483021 696544 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1318483064 254082 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a source filter literally just being some perl code that takes your source code as input and outputs the source code that gets "compiled" < 1318483211 6924 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could make a source filter that takes +- and runs that as perl < 1318483212 26407 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1318483220 136458 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runpython from __future__ import braces; < 1318483222 231804 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :File "", line 1 \ SyntaxError: not a chance < 1318483230 431672 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, by +-, I mean Brainfuck < 1318483241 964128 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plusminus, the new PC name of Brainfuck. < 1318483251 140326 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I'll just make it a derivative identical to the original. < 1318483254 125066 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make everyone happy. < 1318483260 145872 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :- is a convenience instruction. < 1318483276 146920 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if cell data doesn't wrap around < 1318483277 590473 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print "test" =~ tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M] < 1318483279 599627 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify constant item in transliteration (tr///) at - line 1, at EOF \ Execution of - aborted due to compilation errors. < 1318483284 785463 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....WHY PERL WHY < 1318483302 42763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print ($_="test") =~ tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M] < 1318483304 313931 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify print in transliteration (tr///) at - line 1, at EOF \ Execution of - aborted due to compilation errors. < 1318483309 44114 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1318483313 574357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print (($_="test") =~ tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M]) < 1318483315 744739 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1318483328 57660 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, perl's turning into lisp < 1318483329 874810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so incredibly stupid that I have to assign it. < 1318483345 182849 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print ("test" =~ tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M]r) < 1318483347 47917 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bareword found where operator expected at - line 1, near "tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M]r" \ Can't modify constant item in transliteration (tr///) at - line 1, near "tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M]r" \ syntax error at - line 1, near "tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M]r" \ Execution of - aborted due to compilation errors. < 1318483358 835448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no r option in this version of perl I guess. < 1318483412 198931 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -v < 1318483413 973659 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ This is perl, v5.10.0 built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ \ Copyright 1987-2007, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documentation for Perl, including FAQ lists, should be < 1318483442 304707 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :long version string < 1318483463 981097 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl $_=q{$_='Hello, World!';print tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M]}; tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M]; print; < 1318483465 817819 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$_='Uryyb, Jbeyq!';cevag ge[n-mN-M][a-mn-zA-MN-Z] < 1318483651 285502 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl $_=q{$_='Hello, World!';tr[!-~][P-~!-O];print};tr[!-~][P-~!-O];print; < 1318483653 351410 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :S0lVw6==@[ (@C=5PVjEC,P\O.,!\OP\~.jAC:?E < 1318483719 154762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl use Filter::sh q{tr '!-~' 'P-~!-O'}; S0lVw6==@[ (@C=5PVjEC,P\O.,!\OP\~.jAC:?E' < 1318483721 232997 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate Filter/sh.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at - line 1. \ BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at - line 1. < 1318483727 457012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooo < 1318483766 60061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl use Filter::Util::Call; < 1318483768 508938 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318483925 211352 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl use Filter::cpp; < 1318483926 810168 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate Filter/cpp.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at - line 1. \ BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at - line 1. < 1318483976 664145 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I don't feel like using Filter::Util::Call < 1318483989 617972 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OO-ish < 1318484013 501246 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filter::sh literally just processes the source file with a sh command. < 1318484216 646914 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1318484243 371893 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels wrong to spend 4 hours on something so simple < 1318484261 795688 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: what is it? < 1318484353 798955 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented A*, then I made it so that it 'drew' straight lines between path nodes if no walls were in the way and took that path instead, then I fixed my previous pathfinding algorithm (which still kicked in when a unit ran into a wall or other unit) so that it took the sideways path that brought it geometrically closer to its destination < 1318484367 764301 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than always going...clockwise I think it was < 1318484571 397566 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should have only taken 2 hours. I wonder if I can bribe father time < 1318484854 881300 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1318484952 367198 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1318484953 484803 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jfaet < 1318485078 316918 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning a new math thing due to < 1318485085 826041 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Men inHats. < 1318485088 472269 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not making this up < 1318485104 801879 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://meninhats.com/d/20031212.html < 1318485185 697725 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ono's_inequality < 1318485188 905093 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds boring < 1318485299 664422 :Jfaet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1318485405 817184 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freedom in general may be defined as the absence of obstacles to the realization of desires < 1318485408 722540 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Bertrand Russel < 1318485414 278044 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :smart man with smart words. < 1318485517 86472 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1318485688 973132 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-201.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318485694 781889 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-166.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1318485797 941538 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318487000 975837 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1318487017 281266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1318487038 388139 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whats the best SQL DBMS? < 1318487213 934769 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all BDSM. < 1318487258 560970 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but would you recommend any? < 1318487268 101942 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: for small stuff, SQLite? < 1318487271 561368 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDSM for reflection, GDSM for MR. < 1318487316 101542 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just CoMR+SDSM rather than GDSM? Although I'm usually a wizard < 1318487336 440371 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1318487341 383634 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Joke killer. < 1318487405 872201 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I don't think this is necessarily a small project. < 1318487410 313023 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1318487414 334106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's work related. I'm choosing which database to use. < 1318487423 154033 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1318487424 557801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can only assume that it needs to scale well. < 1318487447 366291 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PostgreSQL doesn't look too bad. It has a lot of features. < 1318487461 820441 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the open-sores "big ones", it's often a choice between either Postgres or the MySQL/derivatives. < 1318487559 500856 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-201.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And MySQL's in the middle of a giant "ABANDON SHIP" forkfest. < 1318487600 130893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm MySQL seems to be more popular than Postgres. is that an accurate statement? < 1318487643 878083 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL, sadly, is (or at least was) quite often the "default". < 1318487655 81867 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMP and all that. < 1318487694 68927 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so I think I'll go with postgres < 1318487723 761074 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used a database. Should be fun. < 1318487725 565270 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL used to lack all kinds of "Real Database" features, but I suppose they've bolted most of them in more or less, now. < 1318487728 542124 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-201.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL is more popular, but it's also been utterly shaken up by Oracle lately. < 1318487735 404875 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the basic ideas of a relational database, and a bit of SQL, but that's about it. < 1318487737 963286 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that. < 1318487782 66769 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1318487868 953437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick say some bad stuff about postgres < 1318487888 99077 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your needs aren't very esoteric, it's sometimes possible to be both MySQL- and PostgreSQL-compatible without too much fuss. (Sensible languages have generic-ish database interfaces.) < 1318487918 983333 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm using django (Python). It can use a lot of databases. < 1318487927 513304 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how painless it is to switch though. < 1318487955 711182 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very painless, if you just use Django's own database object model/persistence things. < 1318487956 854936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :postgreSQL has the best logo. Therefore, I should use it. < 1318488096 783669 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, I don't know how painless it is to switch an existing Django db from one to another; but the code for using any Django-supported one should be pretty much identical, since you're not really writing any SQL there.) < 1318488114 894046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right that's the situation I was talking about. < 1318488120 288901 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just want to go ahead and pick one and stick with it. < 1318488124 277018 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid having to do that. < 1318488159 12080 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a Postgres person, so my recommendations would be biased anyhow. < 1318488207 937977 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :postgres seems to be sufficiently advanced, but I have little actual knowlege about it. < 1318488283 713244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on some very little Django work, it's quite painless to use if you do things the way Django wants them to be done, e.g. use the django.db.models-based DB access API; in which case the specific features of the database don't really matter all that much. < 1318488317 633390 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I won't need to do anything that Django doesn't already allow through its API < 1318488349 228416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for speed and scalability, it would be best if you could find some Django benchmarks on the different backends, but I'm not sure any exist. < 1318488428 184462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are quite a few on the web-server/"middleware" side (fcgi, wsgi, whatever), but. < 1318488433 293332 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if I use a different frontend to manage the db in the future will that conflict with the Django API? < 1318488439 227467 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pgadmin < 1318488469 138555 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on whether you mess with the tables or not. It won't of course understand the Django object format, so you need to be slightly careful. < 1318488486 902811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm okay < 1318488490 422319 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Django can autogenerate a database web-admin interface directly from the Python models if you like. < 1318488499 384555 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... not perfect, but passable. < 1318488504 46829 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks fancy, anyway. < 1318488508 230295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that might be good. < 1318488535 914328 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The objects tend to be serialized in a "sensible" way IIRC, so it's possible to edit things "manually" too. < 1318488558 398269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then as long as the code reflects the new table structure everything should be fine, I'd think. < 1318488581 904683 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jacobian.org/writing/django-performance-tips/ says "Use PostgreSQL: I’ll probably get lots of push-back from the MySQL community about this one, but in my experience PostgreSQL is much faster than MySQL in nearly every case." but that's just a random web-page. < 1318488602 26620 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :random source on the internet? I'll take it. < 1318488614 180077 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reinforces the nebulous fabric of his reality. < 1318488733 912487 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1318488737 594819 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318488751 736491 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall there was some sort of a thing about editing the models. < 1318488769 939090 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1318488806 131462 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318488939 435638 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah I could be dealing with possibly 10 million rows here.. < 1318488946 671462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.djangobook.com/en/2.0/chapter10/#s-making-changes-to-a-database-schema < 1318488970 271842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1318489009 214217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothetically, how good would a modern GPU be for ray-tracing. I'm not expecting 60 FPS, but for offline rendering, how fast might it be? < 1318489027 585007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(will of course depend on scene complexity) < 1318489053 654388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I'm asking: how fit are modern GPUs to do the job compared to just doing it on the CPU < 1318489089 794112 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all of the GPU + ray-tracing things I've seen have been about doing it in real-time, but I'm pretty *someone*'s doing "traditional" offline rendering on a GPU too. < 1318489102 909101 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like a very reasonable thing to do. < 1318489117 7388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1318489142 897773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how fast would doing real time ray tracing on a GPU be? (Alternatively: why doesn't every modern game do it?) < 1318489301 280366 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How fast" is a bit of a senseless question; it's obviously "real-time fast". What might be more relevant is "how complex stuff can you do". (To which I don't know the answer, but there are some impressive-looking demos.) < 1318489313 697728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1318489354 705553 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7fe0.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318489358 719319 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :NVIDIA has that OptiX thing going on, for example; I don't know much more than the name about it, though. < 1318489374 966025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm skyrim + raytracing would be pretty cool for example. Lots of scenery that could be reflected in water and such. < 1318489500 83842 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's somewhat a memory problem for (offline) ray-tracing really complex scenes. (As far as I understand it, most of the work in doing stuff on GPU is about memory management.) < 1318489511 411800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1318489526 134299 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1318489614 851669 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably papers on it from every SIGGRAPH of the last few years. < 1318489623 625107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1318489656 310315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do those require paid access? < 1318489691 666113 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. Googling hit a one-hour slidefest about the topic from SIGGRAPH 2011 (by NVIDIA) at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IC2NIogWR4 < 1318489702 28445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1318489725 633802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD needs to start doing more cool stuff like that. Since I have an AMD CPU < 1318489737 910887 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a link to http://developer.nvidia.com/siggraph-2011 which lists all presentations from NVIDIA folks. (Haven't more than glanced at it.) < 1318489768 139192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1318489769 416041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPU < 1318489770 817952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not CPU < 1318489871 658150 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently http://www.mentalimages.com/products/mental-ray/about-mental-ray.html is reasonably GPU-accelerated. (It's an offline thing for complex images and realistic lighting and that sort of stuff.) < 1318489887 21163 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go through your ray tracer and count how many control structures you use < 1318489897 573678 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And count how many indirect pointers you follow < 1318489913 329135 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how hard it is to ray-trace on a GPU < 1318489984 193228 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can't ray trace water, since it cannot trace caustics < 1318490026 566565 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need path tracing, photon mapping, or good old textured caustics. Guess which one game developers prefer. < 1318490048 863962 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ray-tracing in games? < 1318490057 917482 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't follow... unless pre-rendered? < 1318490072 189453 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes up for their one-dimensional plots. < 1318490107 427868 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, are we living in the age of real-time ray-tracing already? < 1318490114 808248 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel left behind < 1318490117 897906 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some definitions of "age of". < 1318490123 473237 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like edge of < 1318490182 663041 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel had that "Enemy Territory ray-traced 720p at ~15-30 FPS" demo back in 2008 to showcase the power of their battlestat^W 16-core 3-gigahurts Xeon. < 1318490210 316849 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like building hype for larrabee < 1318490221 57643 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of course will be available Any Time Now < 1318490374 296149 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was what the Larrabee port of the demo was for; I'm not certain it was the reason for the initial CPU-based demo. But of course who knows. < 1318490382 631280 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a couple of screenshots at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_Wars:_Ray_Traced < 1318490444 455597 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the video. < 1318490466 873255 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the floating, reflecting metal speheres they've dropped everywhere. < 1318490478 246756 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just in case you forgot this was about ray-tracing." < 1318490512 891704 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love looking at ray-traced images < 1318490540 768273 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/tokaspt/ < 1318490608 235652 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the mental-ray stuff is apparently more relevant to the initial question (speeding up offline rendering of actually realistic scenes on the GPU); sadly, it's so proprietary they don't really tell how much use of a GPU they can get. < 1318490727 176486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lurchtime. < 1318491155 714706 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Moray 3d modeler considered decent? < 1318491166 77226 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's in the process of becoming Free < 1318491206 231946 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, um. That may have been a while ago < 1318491322 171804 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I just say how pretty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glasses_800_edit.png looks? < 1318491446 735403 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell needs moar web application framework/ < 1318491469 733994 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's Yesod apparently < 1318491704 786891 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't there lots < 1318491737 13613 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants heroku for Haskell < 1318492209 491477 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1318492215 714670 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[whamlet|Hello World!|] < 1318492221 818865 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a Template Haskell thing? < 1318492244 119066 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because lets need more wham. < 1318492566 737695 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One other quick note: you may have noticed that parseRoutes is called with a bit of a strange syntax with the square brackets and pipes. That's because it's a quasi-quoter" < 1318492568 711985 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1318492820 790191 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1318493018 671939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : You need path tracing, photon mapping, or good old textured caustics. Guess which one game developers prefer. <-- which one? < 1318493024 708471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, was away eating breakfast) < 1318493121 251907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can I just say how pretty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glasses_800_edit.png looks? <-- old and povray iirc < 1318493224 738015 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dmrdesigns.com.ar/download/Caustic.jpg < 1318493488 846079 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: http://www.luxrender.net/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=211 < 1318493515 574603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, ah < 1318493555 76026 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, those two links sum up video games versus offline rendering < 1318493570 463218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1318494261 256832 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Caustic.jpg have to do with anything? < 1318494268 603029 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that gallery is pretty, ty < 1318494305 20547 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, LuxRender is an alternative to POV-Ray? < 1318494324 857036 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone explain to me what's wrong with POV-Ray? < 1318494335 424148 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides non-GPL < 1318494423 57112 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LuxRender is quite different sort of beast; I'd say it's more an alternative for Radiance. < 1318494440 19446 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is more confused now < 1318494454 432207 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :POV-Ray is archaic < 1318494461 550755 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this from experience < 1318494484 404113 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luxrender is based on pbrt, I think < 1318494499 314247 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, yes; it's very more physics-inspired than something like POV-Ray. < 1318494505 925260 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is LuxRender scenes not meant to be rendered by humans? < 1318494517 912314 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: by physics, you mean the physics of light? < 1318494533 897158 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I has a sad knowing that traditional ray-tracing isn't based on that < 1318494550 61749 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ray tracing isn't physically correct, not even to classical optics < 1318494563 768913 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read pbrt for the details < 1318494596 627836 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they've stuck in some GPU acceleration into LuxRender too. < 1318494608 828421 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will we get real-time physics-based rendering? < 1318494622 844827 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my new standard for when graphics are good < 1318494631 526537 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can render a cornell box in real time, does that count? < 1318494662 842094 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick what looks good; then extrapolate from the current time to render it + Moore's law. < 1318494718 963779 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What looks good now is going to look like crap when the hardware to ray-trace it rolls around. < 1318494765 763974 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, as long as the deciding factor for video games is graphical porn < 1318494796 888350 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be possible to re-render POV-Ray scenes in LuxRender or pbrt? < 1318494813 766202 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I guess I have no idea what the fuck radiosity is, but I assume it has no place in pbrt? < 1318494879 201514 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :POV-Ray scenes are procedural, while Luxrender scenes are descriptive. < 1318494890 320329 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what "physically based rendering" means. < 1318494896 825874 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :POV-Ray scenes... wait what? < 1318494916 350317 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is describing where a box is, for example, procedural? < 1318494919 61054 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The POV-Ray scene description language is Turing-complete(ish). < 1318494930 976995 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so you've never used POV-Ray < 1318494935 700555 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stop then < 1318494943 281831 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it, but only for simple stuff following the tutorial < 1318494951 983936 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A long time ago < 1318494970 822997 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just want to rerender that Glasses thing in something like LuxRender < 1318494972 141659 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1318494975 769200 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what it looks like < 1318494986 411847 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely at least shapes should transfer over < 1318494992 333585 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In POV-Ray, you declare archaic early pixar era hacks like bump mapping < 1318495017 809476 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually pixar already used displacement mapping even then < 1318495032 482897 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1318495039 468783 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what displacement mapping is < 1318495049 447902 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely gets bump mapping, I think < 1318495061 24720 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, you have to tell POV-Ray how to draw the scene. You tell Luxrender what the scene is. < 1318495078 294493 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how many ways to say the above differently < 1318495139 80397 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely, things like "box here, sphere there", or whatever, at least are in a sense both how to draw the scene and what the scene is? So not a perfect translation over, but something? < 1318495148 13869 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some converters from POV-Ray scenes to plain meshes, but they obviously only handle a subset of the possible things. < 1318495184 968237 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scenes aren't merely shapes... < 1318495221 37038 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; but you can extract the objects, and then recreate the rest. < 1318495236 156581 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You make it sound real simple < 1318495252 110921 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is radiosity, and am I correct that it's an artifact of the fact that POV-Ray fakes it? < 1318495292 871579 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In POV-Ray you go "lol light_source { color rgb <0, 0, 1> }"; in Luxrender you give the physical colour and intensity < 1318495330 97107 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you say rgb <0,0,1>? That's purely an artifact of how rendering software works. < 1318495347 359281 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physical color == frequencies that are being emitted? < 1318495385 461499 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1318495449 600623 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make a Luxrender scene today, and tomorrow everyone decides to accomodate tetrachromates, then my scene can be rerendered to look correct to them, as opposed to a POV-Ray scene which would lose necessary information? < 1318495545 378289 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that if you place a sun and rain in Luxrender and position the camera properly, you'd get a rainbow? What would happen in POV-Ray, nothing? < 1318495564 289956 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure it would go quite *that* far. < 1318495568 255700 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your POV-Ray scene doesn't even specify what colours are used, so your comparison is meaningless < 1318495594 451186 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.luxrender.net/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=1928 < 1318495616 106772 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :rgb <0,0,1> isn't a colour until you specify the colour space being used < 1318495648 266600 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do mere mortals specify color in Luxrender? < 1318495649 119190 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Yeah, but that's not a rainbow. Do you think you'd really get a physically correct rainbow if you just put bazillion droplets in the sky. < 1318495650 775063 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since the three components are treated independently, you can ignore them la la la < 1318495668 97876 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, let's say, the SUn < 1318495668 244472 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun < 1318495681 19509 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm, think so. If you could wait for it to render. < 1318495700 978927 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've watched an animated film where they rendered diffraction in rain < 1318495705 734370 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of frequencies, probably a continuous range with continuously varying strenghts < 1318495744 182483 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: You can specify a blackbody temperature. < 1318495751 952048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: That's a reasonable approximation for sunlight. < 1318495756 342220 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was very subtle, but visible if you knew it was there < 1318495775 26447 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: See http://www.luxrender.net/wiki/LuxRender_Textures_Spectrum for the different ways how you can specify the spectrum for a light source. < 1318495921 233492 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see "arbitrary function" on there, but I guess regular data is close enough < 1318495967 806571 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the luxrender community, iirc "arbitrary function" means you monkey patch it in < 1318495995 776668 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...buh? < 1318496117 583467 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch my-colour-function.patch && make < 1318496285 794944 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And here I was thinking that LuxRender is awesome < 1318496339 710190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, sounds like povray is superior in that regard then. < 1318496369 298490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe luxrender is better at other stuff < 1318496395 553183 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, not being able to specify a spectrum is certainly superior to having to write a spectrum into an external file outside the scene description and read it from there. < 1318496425 423397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1318496444 249606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean, povray is great for rendering mathematical shapes and so on < 1318496445 843946 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't specify an "arbitrary function" spectrum for a POV-Ray light. < 1318496446 680671 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps luxrender doesn't trust its users to always pass in a real probability distribution < 1318496474 58187 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't it jiggle it until it is one if it isn't? < 1318496483 500490 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could it ever know if it is one? < 1318496497 632542 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch lol-numerical-integration.patch < 1318496551 699679 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't ever know in the same sense that you can't prove or disprove the afterlife? < 1318496557 894336 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in a difference sense? < 1318496577 213613 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much what the "regular data" numerical input is. Just add a thing you give a function to, and a grid specification; then it'll sample that function at those points and use it like it'd use a regular datafile. < 1318496581 110201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, do you mean real as in "not complex"? < 1318496598 824548 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a probability distribution as in integrates to area 1 < 1318496598 971015 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, how can you know if int_{-\infty}^\infty f(x) dx = 1 < 1318496607 754599 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :For arbitrary f < 1318496640 158191 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sample it at a coarseness of your choice < 1318496645 416178 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then apply a normalizing factor < 1318496648 172950 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do arbitrary mathematical surfaces in Luxrender? < 1318496653 211273 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then ditch the samples if you don't need them anymore < 1318496682 924434 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metal marbles on a metal 2d sin-based sheet < 1318496685 750744 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1318496689 380607 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines < 1318496717 901360 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it need to be a probability distribution anyway? I don't see anything about normalizing for the regular/irregular numeric data inputs, and the gaussian spectrum an "energy" value too. < 1318496733 174143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, right < 1318496765 304459 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: those aren't arbitrary, so you can normalize them (I don't know if luxrender does) < 1318496846 454292 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's no excuse for not providing an integrated "specify a function, then I'll sample it, as if you would have written those numbers down into an external file" feature. (Not having that much use for one is, though.) < 1318496882 566568 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specify a function in what language < 1318496903 386721 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that the function may be called a few billion times < 1318496977 942294 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, a function. Basic mathematical operations. And I don't see how the calling time matters; it would get sampled once (when it loads the scene), and then treated like it treats the existing "external datafile" things, except you wouldn't need to create such files outside the scene. < 1318496993 65495 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying there'd be any need for something like that. < 1318497473 133771 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it feasible to make a LuxRender scene by hand like one might make a POV-Ray scene by hand? < 1318497541 612879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318497590 693700 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: It is a human-readable format, so for a simple scene one supposes. It's just that all complicated shapes nowadays tend to be approximated by meshes with lots of triangles, generated using graphical modelling tools. < 1318497594 143695 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318497673 76376 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reasonably complicated Blender-to-LuxRender exporter, I tried it out few versions ago. < 1318497723 425273 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tries to (up to some degree) snarf the initial LuxRender-specific material/light/whatever values from the Blender settings. < 1318497732 890329 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then you can go a twiddle with them.) < 1318497807 485238 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. (IIRC) for colors it'll take the RGB values from Blender properties; LuxRender will "generate a physically plausible spectrum based on the desired colour" then. < 1318497853 202959 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LuxRender take relativity into account? < 1318497863 44781 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. can I use it to see what things look like near a blac hole? < 1318497866 236820 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1318497883 709206 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's gravity in there. < 1318497924 438904 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or plasma physics < 1318497957 558751 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be interesting to render scenes in a different space < 1318497979 791560 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(generalized lenses) < 1318497980 201462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's just "physically *based*", not a full universe-simulator like the one we're living in. < 1318498011 910653 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult would it be to add it? < 1318498019 567311 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a restricted example, the Portal developers hacked the HL2 engine to get recursive portal rendering < 1318498035 497110 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: why don't you find out by adding it < 1318498243 142702 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portals are such a hack; the developer commentary track goes into some detail about them. < 1318498254 411478 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We achieve the impression of infinite recursion by copying part of the previously rendered frame onto the final portal in the recursive chain." < 1318498271 181537 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lots about how the physics are faked. < 1318498290 283106 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh; I thought they actually stuck a recursive renderer in there < 1318498305 181367 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would have led to inconsistent performance < 1318498318 711926 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes up to 9 (not 11) levels of real recursion. < 1318498334 453567 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Initial implementations of this dynamic collision generation system could take up to one half of one second, or 500 milliseconds, to compute the correct collision. This may not sound like a long time in everyday life, but this pause during portal creation was quite noticeable in the context of the game. Ultimately, we designed a system that creates temporary hybrid physics environments in bubbles around the portals using less accurate collision than that produ < 1318498334 600145 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ced by Source's standard collision generation, but was accurate enough in practice and reduced the time to create the dynamic collision representation from 500 milliseconds to just 10 milliseconds, which is an imperceptible pause --" < 1318498359 910721 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collisions across portals? < 1318498447 886794 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, physics in video games still sucks. Fire at a cardboard box and you get decals < 1318498517 726191 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're quite static, but at least you can throw indestructible, rigid cubes around, and they bounce funnily. < 1318498702 373821 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Tefaj < 1318499219 283945 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8AF77.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318499539 200048 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see LuxRender renderings of physically impossible scenes < 1318499703 965650 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.luxrender.net/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=18353 those letters seriously look as if they could really have been 3d printed < 1318499789 157014 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.luxrender.net/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=17898 ok how in the hell was this picture taken? < 1318500143 647987 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wires, man. < 1318500160 219004 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or magnets. < 1318500166 614062 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do it with mirrors. < 1318500251 82948 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Wiki says point lights are unphysical. But suppose I wanted my scene to contain a hovering magic light sphere... < 1318500269 549407 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sphere is not a point. < 1318500275 292339 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a sphere with radius > 0. < 1318500308 879858 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the sphere emitting lighting emits light in the direction of the normals of the surface, right? < 1318500327 800194 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble seeing how adjusting the radius of the sphere would change the lighting < 1318500383 426150 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it emits light in all directions. < 1318500399 466984 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :From each point on the surface. < 1318500409 555580 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A real sphere, that is. < 1318500415 851743 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some of the directions are less important. < 1318500455 702413 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Objects only emit light in the direction that the normals of the object's faces are pointing. For rendering speed it is best to use as few faces as possible on emissive object" < 1318500463 449702 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I misunderstood that < 1318500475 767101 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: As far as I can deduce, that's just "not backwards at all", perhaps. < 1318500680 584224 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a "normal" sort of lighting fixture you'd usually have an IES profile which specifies the light distribution, even though theoretically speaking you should be able to just specify the internal geometry and the glowing bits, and let the software take care of the rest. < 1318500699 250091 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1318500711 863485 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a light bulb really is like a black body. < 1318500717 669714 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't know what IES is, although I saw something about using it for lasers < 1318500738 173338 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tefaj: why heh? And what would be wrong with just specifying the internal geometry? < 1318500800 896374 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An incadescent light bulb is black-bodyish; but those are highly illegal here in Europe already, aren't they? A fluorescent lamp spectrum is rather spikier. < 1318500802 186812 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you run into extremities that are difficult to model, like internal scattering with high light intensity < 1318500829 796270 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the scattering inside the light affects the whole scene, you can't cop out and fake it with a lower-dimensional model < 1318500879 760379 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spectra-Philips_32T8_natural_sunshine_fluorescent_light.svg "natural sunshine" my ass. < 1318500942 220776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1318500943 54627 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that sunlight under all this air is all blackbodyish either. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Solar_Spectrum.png) < 1318501009 228618 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are worse approximations < 1318501304 134884 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do you get a blue sky out of LuxRender if you plonk a 5500K sphere of radius 700000km in the scene, and then set the camera near the surface of a r=6371km sphere some 150 million km away from the sphere, and then put an atmosphere around that and specify the chemical composition and a density function? :) < 1318501393 64718 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so there's the "sunsky" environment, but that's a hack.) < 1318501397 135797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318501457 544799 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how good their volumetric scattering model is < 1318501481 428988 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can be sure that if it's any good, you're going to need two weeks and a cluster < 1318501576 678109 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1318501614 934412 :Tefaj!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1318501633 46595 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[A homogenous volume] can also be used as the world volume, which will enable atmospheric scattering." < 1318501639 314743 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it can do something like that. < 1318501806 731999 :MichaelBurge!~quassel@75-175-85-198.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1318501879 769056 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Heterogenous volumes are not currently supported in the new volume system, although they can be used via the old "volumegrid" system if needed. Note that volumegrid does not fully support other LuxRender features such as the bidirectional integrator, and is eventually scheduled to be deprecated and removed once heterogeneous volume support is added to the new object volume system that is documented on this page." < 1318501884 937351 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be a bit under construction. < 1318502339 715875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318503597 163366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1318504038 762171 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : () is completely safe to unsafeCoerce to, as you can't do anything to it, right? < 1318504050 231173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Any type exists for that purpose. < 1318504157 739374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its documentation makes me believe unsafeCoerceing to () is _not_ safe from a function type. < 1318504242 829409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:05:00: where c is a (Num a) => Complex a < 1318504243 13055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:06:15: er, just Complex a would be fine < 1318504243 13216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:06:25: since it's a is constrained to RealFloat < 1318504273 431387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that is not fine, and is one of the reasons why data type contexts are going away. < 1318505684 223877 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8AF77.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318505897 521385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1318506469 918548 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1318506613 313017 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1318507065 671381 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1318507531 687080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318507590 255460 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1318510182 875895 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318510210 85044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello in 10, 9 ... < 1318510216 212806 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1318510216 817114 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello1 < 1318510222 35155 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*! < 1318510246 598526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops the final number got stuck < 1318510252 203138 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1318510436 472217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ddarius: Well when people say you need a PhD to program Haskell, you can point out that SPJ doesn't have a PhD." < 1318510445 49671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://contemplatecode.blogspot.com/2011/10/haskell-weekly-news-issue-203.html < 1318510862 807115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318511409 914162 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am proud to have written one of the few esoteric programming languages to be proved Turing-Complete by reduction from a Turing machine directly < 1318511733 939104 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm which one, you already have a bit of a list there... < 1318511739 175729 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luigi < 1318511956 351591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, was it K or R of K&R who invented hello world? < 1318511978 221509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(R is now, unfortunately, dead) < 1318511995 892740 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :K, I believe < 1318512069 237644 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quoth wikipedia < 1318512071 220761 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The example program from that book prints "hello, world" (without capital letters or exclamation mark), and was inherited from a 1974 Bell Laboratories internal memorandum by Brian Kernighan, Programming in C: A Tutorial, which contains the first known version:" < 1318512093 294138 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first known instance of the usage of the words "hello" and "world" together in computer literature occurred earlier, in Kernighan's 1972 Tutorial Introduction to the Language B,[1] with the following code:" < 1318512109 262248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, good to know < 1318512161 780851 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is the only person to go down in history for writing a four line program in a memo < 1318512172 145553 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To my admitably lacking knowledge < 1318512575 868677 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1318512775 91417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, http://colinm.org/language_checklist.html is very upvoted on proggit < 1318512782 32825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we write an esolang that checks /every/ box? < 1318512824 640808 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1318512831 206667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, some contradict each other < 1318512858 216421 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As many as possible. then < 1318512877 720749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] You have reinvented Brainfuck but non-ironically < 1318512905 880948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing seems to handle esolangs pretty well too < 1318512952 569856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fun GLR-parsable grammar I was considering: operator precedence is chosen to make the expression type correctly < 1318512965 383952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. string_of_int 2 + 2 = string_of_int (2 + 2) < 1318512975 276483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but string_of_int 2 + "a" = (string_of_int 2) + "a" < 1318513002 68929 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds intresting < 1318513010 713726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be good for golfing, but loses basically all the benefits of static typing < 1318513030 345022 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may make Uniquode actually usable < 1318513075 444628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably end up with a usable subset just by chance < 1318513081 563445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably several hundred of them, actually < 1318513110 232187 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be an exercise to the programmer to decide what's the best to use < 1318513204 47285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think oklopol already invented something like that < 1318513211 861731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you embed MAGENTA < 1318513213 834598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/all/ of it < 1318513222 808610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I get an uneasy feeling just looking at its name < 1318513256 726263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the fnord between the G and E < 1318513312 908864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that would explain it < 1318513479 621683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Latefnordr < 1318513542 970264 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318513577 729774 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should Uniquode memory be typed or untyped? < 1318513579 389811 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or both? < 1318513587 548180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both, obviously < 1318513597 496484 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1318513611 782716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both ADT-style and Visual Basic Variant-style < 1318513616 844135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the both < 1318513690 840596 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Google Wave still exist < 1318513692 322151 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1318513990 673475 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think functions would have to be numerated rather than named < 1318514217 660857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, what's the Windows equivalent of ls -R? < 1318514234 774225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be dir /something, presumably < 1318514357 339995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I forgot just how bad Windows cmd sucks; it's not dir, it's tree /f, and it puts garbage at the starts of lines < 1318514358 162798 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir /S? < 1318514390 626383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it is /s < 1318514407 942877 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir /B /S < 1318514424 749948 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those letters were chosen because they represent Windows best < 1318514874 859459 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XSL S and K potentially complete! < 1318514890 198173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they work? < 1318514894 995497 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tried < 1318515387 70184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Wikipedia's coverage of Sheldrake has improved considerably since last he checked. < 1318515570 8463 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1318515625 553783 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work < 1318515633 576742 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have an idea why < 1318515671 882287 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I say "./s[position()=2]", does it give the second s, or the second element if it is an s < 1318515686 709388 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1318515709 479523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really having a hard time believing that it's this convoluted. < 1318515747 82807 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found out why it's wrong < 1318516869 516704 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1318518908 50453 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318520027 200715 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1318520598 83156 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7fe0.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318520853 478813 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318521098 659650 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1318521149 830892 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318523366 265046 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1318523927 242760 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1318524630 131552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318524753 278546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1318524782 653442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: K-lines can be automatic nowadays, I think < 1318524782 974124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1318524801 370899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they always have been able to be automatic, IIRC < 1318524807 298946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that still doesn't explain why it happened to quintopia < 1318524811 424955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1318524811 643314 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1318524814 157199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1318524820 630836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you misused lambdabot < 1318524836 383795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the messages delivered by lambdabot are generally better than those delivered by Rodney or heptagram < 1318524839 76562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and, well, yes, but I mean quintopia might have been banned by software because it thought he was a malicious bot, say < 1318524856 125017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :joining too many channels in rapid succession, or something, perhaps < 1318524917 339039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, you can hardly expect to get messages if you violate the usage instructions < 1318524933 529086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, those instructions were to /you/ < 1318524944 431138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1318524954 531910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CakeProphet said 12h 26m 47s ago: TODO: convince Gregor to put ghc and runhaskell on hackego < 1318524958 912256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Gregor, do that thing you already did. < 1318525002 306519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:20:49: Phantom_Hoover: what is functional minimalism done right? < 1318525002 453035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:21:05: rapido, Lazy K. < 1318525009 490247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well I dunno, its IO model is not very nice. < 1318525015 667467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:24:54: diversion: anyone into K (or Q) from kxsystems - the only commercial esoteric language out there? < 1318525022 688372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like K but I like J more < 1318525032 1012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BANCStar! < 1318525049 846370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, erm, what's wrong with Lazy K's IO? < 1318525058 511964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's equivalent to haskell lazy io < 1318525074 433501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends crucially on evaluation order for any kind of interactivity < 1318525079 201473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not being a system under active research" is not a valid wrongness. < 1318525080 771487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of gross and impure in that way < 1318525084 213484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what < 1318525092 640167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about getContents < 1318525119 487499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that were I to ask what you'd use instead you'd say FRP. < 1318525144 882323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :frp doesn't even deal with console-based io, so obviously you don't actually know what you're talking about < 1318525157 98424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:52:14: Dennis Ritchie apparently died recently < 1318525157 245354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:04: RIP Dennis Ritchie :( < 1318525157 245548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, he wasn't that old... < 1318525175 320092 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I don't know what I'm talking about. < 1318525202 935007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So stop making assumptions. < 1318525210 789851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why. < 1318525220 797708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because you just look like an idiot? < 1318525264 774469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:50:18: () is completely safe to unsafeCoerce to, as you can't do anything to it, right? < 1318525269 6637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: yes you can, you can coerce it < 1318525269 759564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1318525273 51173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: yes you can, you can force it < 1318525292 955004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: and that isn't a valid metric for determining whether unsafeCoerce is safe, anyway. < 1318525363 748590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about unsafeCoercing it back to the original type? < 1318525367 859980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/runperl < 1318525373 7016 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1318525378 828664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :run prefix is gross < 1318525407 707501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1318525408 105401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function unsafeCoerce# allows you to side-step the typechecker entirely. That is, it allows you to coerce any type into any other type. If you use this function, you had better get it right, otherwise segmentation faults await. It is generally used when you want to write a program that you know is well-typed, but where Haskell's type system is not expressive enough to prove that it is well typed. < 1318525408 252074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following uses of unsafeCoerce# are supposed to work (i.e. not lead to spurious compile-time or run-time crashes): < 1318525408 607810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Casting any lifted type to Any < 1318525410 596648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Casting Any back to the real type < 1318525412 632169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Casting an unboxed type to another unboxed type of the same size (but not coercions between floating-point and integral types) < 1318525415 627842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Casting between two types that have the same runtime representation. One case is when the two types differ only in "phantom" type parameters, for example Ptr Int to Ptr Float, or [Int] to [Float] when the list is known to be empty. Also, a newtype of a type T has the same representation at runtime as T. < 1318525419 622318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other uses of unsafeCoerce# are undefined. In particular, you should not use unsafeCoerce# to cast a T to an algebraic data type D, unless T is also an algebraic data type. For example, do not cast Int->Int to Bool, even if you later cast that Bool back to Int->Int before applying it. The reasons have to do with GHC's internal representation details (for the congnoscenti, data values can be entered but function closures cannot). If you want a saf < 1318525424 617362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e type to cast things to, use Any, which is not an algebraic data type. < 1318525426 619641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are GHC's guarantees < 1318525445 948568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:07:45: Um, I can't imagine Python working really all that well when only given one line < 1318525451 150644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: this is why I wrote braces < 1318525567 389873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/haskell < 1318525569 662100 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/haskell < 1318525579 338480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that needs improvement < 1318525590 214928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait just use egobot < 1318525659 291623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't here < 1318525722 869219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi Gregor < 1318525768 482417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:47:13: fizzie: if I use a different frontend to manage the db in the future will that conflict with the Django API? < 1318525768 629120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:47:19: like pgadmin < 1318525768 629302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:47:49: Depends on whether you mess with the tables or not. It won't of course understand the Django object format, so you need to be slightly careful. < 1318525772 997809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What django object format? < 1318525778 461708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no serialisation or anything. < 1318525783 945591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:10: Django can autogenerate a database web-admin interface directly from the Python models if you like. < 1318525784 92623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:19: It's... not perfect, but passable. < 1318525784 92827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:24: Looks fancy, anyway. < 1318525793 119090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You're meant to customise it with the meta-object stuff. < 1318525822 184606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (It was created to be used as the admin interface in the large project that Django was abstracted from, so it's meant to be able to be pretty good.) < 1318525827 900316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:48:55: The objects tend to be serialized in a "sensible" way IIRC, so it's possible to edit things "manually" too. < 1318525837 614313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not serialisation, it just maps it to a schema. < 1318525847 856796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even serialise arbitrary Python objects, you have to tell it the schema. < 1318525859 52070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:49:41: http://jacobian.org/writing/django-performance-tips/ says "Use PostgreSQL: I’ll probably get lots of push-back from the MySQL community about this one, but in my experience PostgreSQL is much faster than MySQL in nearly every case." but that's just a random web-page. < 1318525865 75008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: By one of the lead Django developers. < 1318525948 794999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You need to crush Vorpal's dreams, I think. < 1318525961 334976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of what/ < 1318525971 845154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GPU raytracing as a panacea. < 1318525977 76096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:11:27: Go through your ray tracer and count how many control structures you use < 1318525977 222600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:11:37: And count how many indirect pointers you follow < 1318525977 370054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:11:53: That's how hard it is to ray-trace on a GPU < 1318525977 370233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:13:04: Also, you can't ray trace water, since it cannot trace caustics < 1318525977 370338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:13:46: You need path tracing, photon mapping, or good old textured caustics. Guess which one game developers prefer. < 1318525978 575630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, beaten to it. < 1318526013 965436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:16:50: More like building hype for larrabee < 1318526014 245990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:17:01: Which of course will be available Any Time Now < 1318526021 532110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Larabee was explicitly cancelled. < 1318526065 498929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Wolf_chand1.png The power of raytracing. < 1318526155 151731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:37:26: Haskell needs moar web application framework/ < 1318526158 390432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There are about fifty. < 1318526496 10374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:44:09: If I make a Luxrender scene today, and tomorrow everyone decides to accomodate tetrachromates, then my scene can be rerendered to look correct to them, as opposed to a POV-Ray scene which would lose necessary information? < 1318526496 157147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetrachromates, n. tetrachomats who are you are mates with. < 1318526546 146147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:47:29: Jafet: Yeah, but that's not a rainbow. Do you think you'd really get a physically correct rainbow if you just put bazillion droplets in the sky. < 1318526546 329074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you waited long enough! < 1318526659 277782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:01:14: couldn't it jiggle it until it is one if it isn't? < 1318526659 424580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:01:23: How could it ever know if it is one? < 1318526659 571504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:01:37: patch lol-numerical-integration.patch < 1318526659 571580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:02:31: It can't ever know in the same sense that you can't prove or disprove the afterlife? < 1318526659 571625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:02:37: Or in a difference sense? < 1318526666 145748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu discovers that not all propositions are decidable. < 1318526915 747275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:21:44: So do you get a blue sky out of LuxRender if you plonk a 5500K sphere of radius 700000km in the scene, and then set the camera near the surface of a r=6371km sphere some 150 million km away from the sphere, and then put an atmosphere around that and specify the chemical composition and a density function? :) < 1318526917 777719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I really hope so. < 1318527492 459420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a spell in Dungeons&Dragons that makes the sun rise in the south? < 1318527537 517413 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : tetrachromates, n. tetrachomats who are you are mates with. < 1318527544 924850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think some DMs would let you do that with wish/miracle < 1318527549 216991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please keep your fantasies out of this channel. < 1318527550 42891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not all of them < 1318527579 929128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm sorry but Sgeo|web was already talking about his true love (obsolete raytracing). < 1318527613 975900 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK. Although that was something found in some book my character had; the phrase "the sun rises in the south" was torn out so that I could use it to notify someone. < 1318527642 554283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are probably easier ways to notify people than actually moving the position of the sun < 1318527668 943163 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did not move the position of the sun. < 1318527695 473307 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had nothing to write with, so tore that phrase out of the book, tied it to a rock, and threw it through a window (which I could not get near due to a magical fog). < 1318527751 23268 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The window was north of my position) < 1318527773 623297 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318528135 539115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell that to Notch < 1318528452 467470 :vco!~jidsi@bzq-79-179-205-132.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318528682 550527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi vco < 1318528683 505084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1318528685 713389 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1318528726 851628 :vco!~jidsi@bzq-79-179-205-132.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1318528739 911989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye vco < 1318528851 57198 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1318530210 317414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now the complete sequence of Yersinia pestis, the most likely cause of the Black Death, has been unearthed from a medieval mass grave in London." < 1318530220 542065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, and I even postponed the construction of my bunker. < 1318530334 138272 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, Y. pestis is endemic to Britain. < 1318530387 811706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It was a joke, you know. < 1318530404 629865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1318530479 185805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, it can also be cured trivially with modern medicine < 1318530493 743669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't surprising, given that it isn't around nowadays and so hasn't had much of a chance to evolve antibiotic resistance < 1318530525 212499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should do an experiment to find out what happens if you breed it intensely for antibiotic resistance and then put it into the water supply of every major city. < 1318530546 370764 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318530581 351396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, could work for a biology investigation (did < 1318530594 374096 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mention my dwarven chemistry investigation it is the best.) < 1318530606 303259 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318530617 130515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually wait, I have a better experiment idea: < 1318530620 61282 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1318530622 591136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should find out what happens if you kill everyone. < 1318530700 372570 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to work out why identifying automatically is misconfigured on this client < 1318530729 23826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a better client; also to learn you some XML. < 1318530757 717388 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tries to, it just gets it wrong < 1318530795 623850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: How do you have it set up. < 1318530804 570982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop using that thing. < 1318530806 71658 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my password in the password box < 1318530810 515028 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need it! < 1318530815 59780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why. < 1318530816 532636 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my visual basic developement! < 1318530824 222433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/xchat-wdk/ < 1318530833 558229 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REFUUU- wait < 1318530842 30259 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat exists for windows? < 1318530851 604605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1318530866 73182 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did no-one tell me! < 1318530869 627526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We did. < 1318530875 587788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ignored us and kept using that piece of crap. < 1318530880 534457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1318530882 532600 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1318530886 372363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did at least. < 1318530889 117893 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was that Taneb guy, I bet < 1318530890 909678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least I think I did. < 1318530894 226949 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody told /me/ < 1318530905 868034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is true. < 1318530915 880384 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net NICK :Taneb|Hovercraft < 1318530922 816854 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody told me either < 1318530976 30382 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody told me that Windows exists. < 1318531010 27998 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're an afenestrist? < 1318531074 732263 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to defenestrate every software fenestrist. < 1318531180 601147 :Taneb|Hovercraft!~nathan@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: client experimentation < 1318531200 421565 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318531294 324833 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89063.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318531306 494875 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1318532198 391588 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1318532210 84865 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is XChat-wdk better than Silverex? < 1318532243 797101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly. < 1318532770 989943 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1318532827 925940 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318532828 584930 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318534206 268072 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1318534252 694984 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1318534805 332091 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-190-137.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1318535323 27420 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1318535464 288509 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1318535507 92589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1318535537 721626 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello oerjan! < 1318535556 731568 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good evening oerjan! < 1318535562 413306 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, am i doing it wrong < 1318535574 611090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1318535585 838220 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs elliott  < 1318535602 325873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good evening, everyone in appropriate timezones! < 1318535602 472642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrongness < 1318535603 17312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is bad < 1318535617 387617 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thumbs up if you're watching in 2O11 :)" — YouTube comment. < 1318535621 670429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, good morning and good afternoon! < 1318535623 318044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 38 thumbs up. < 1318535625 158416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2O11 < 1318535631 223577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: with how many views? < 1318535642 423951 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1e6. < 1318535642 900224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, that's YouTube's fault, it randomly distorts numbers < 1318535651 216962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, are you sure < 1318535651 565185 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...how old is the comment? < 1318535651 727956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/why/, I don't know < 1318535657 652762 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 months. < 1318535667 629227 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bah < 1318535668 673345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably to break spam links < 1318535675 536026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I think that's the reason < 1318535680 651715 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to look stupid in two and a half months < 1318535682 782169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how it happened, but it cannot be a bad sign that YouTube comments have hit their nadir. < 1318535706 767167 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: optimist! < 1318535732 841746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen some great YouTube comments < 1318535735 951304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, nah, then everyone'll reminisce about how 2011 was so much better than 2012, thumbs up if you agree. < 1318535739 917321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, most of them were self-parody < 1318535765 637219 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumbs up if you have thumbs < 1318535773 58550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but they are far outweighed by the terrible ones and the ultra-blatant karma whoring, which is all the more hilarious given that YouTube doesn't even /have/ a karma system AFAIK. < 1318535779 640910 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably done) < 1318535812 937932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it indirectly does; having your comment in the "most popular comments" makes it more likely people will click on your username, deliberately or accidentally < 1318535818 67040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then increases the number of views to your channel < 1318535825 466911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which indirectly increases the number of views to your videos < 1318535862 134056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: To be fair, reddit barely has a karma system. < 1318535868 609189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond extremes, it has literally no effect beyond being displayed. < 1318535882 127971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a number! that goes up indefinitely! < 1318535897 720045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot's has a cap to try to stop people karma-whoring, but they do it anyway < 1318535900 615258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can go down, too < 1318535907 355456 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is at least compiled into a single number. < 1318535908 542064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but on average it goes up < 1318535912 492624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But one thing's for sure, Phantom_Hoover's will never, ever surpass mine. < 1318535920 663583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the Law of Karma. < 1318535920 810414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is yours currently positive? < 1318535928 334545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR you have had comments at negative values before < 1318535932 311220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know how I said it was over 2000 yesterday, it passed 2100 today. < 1318535941 665263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I have, but I've been around long enough that it's pretty high. < 1318535953 749156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My comment karma is 6,233; my link karma is 1,769 and never changes because I never submit links.) < 1318535961 958675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in other news, stars not fallen, pope is still a catholic. < 1318536054 272095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, haven't /you/ had comments at negative karma, despite having like 10? < 1318536073 280604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I thought all mine were on positives, but I'm not sure < 1318536082 30192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, how do you type smart quotes? < 1318536097 985270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose-`` doesn't seem to work < 1318536103 254074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you get them with altgr? < 1318536109 941773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: {" and "} or something for compose < 1318536112 268952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep the files < 1318536116 426438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get them with altgr but I never remember how < 1318536119 661845 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo has become a doctor who fan oh no < 1318536121 980891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1318536126 297527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be {" }" < 1318536146 918743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1318536150 378341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just regular quotes < 1318536161 415480 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks if ais' comments work when sorted by top, notes that they do not. < 1318536164 211424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, altgr-v altgr-b < 1318536165 608811 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it should be old enough < 1318536181 397584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Work"? < 1318536207 32442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, mine didn't work when you sorted them that way, so it must be spreading. < 1318536217 464926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just appear the same. < 1318536328 907857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what Evolution needs? a "mark as handled" flag < 1318536332 514630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a state more read than read < 1318536342 999856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's called Archive < 1318536347 122401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in all implementations I know of it) < 1318536360 606230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm, that would remove it from my inbox < 1318536367 912773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, until someone sends another mail in that thread < 1318536368 684033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still like the chronological view of everything with no threading < 1318536379 396708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for a second I thought you were talking about biological evolution. < 1318536379 929796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's what All Mail is for < 1318536381 424872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or equivalent) < 1318536382 518999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, /thread/? this has to be per-message < 1318536387 58833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1318536393 720304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I might have handled some messages in a thread but not others < 1318536408 988350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then it should be two threads < 1318536417 788068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: tell that to the people /sending the emails/ < 1318536441 666413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it's not exactly burdensome to have a few additional messages visible until you handle them all. < 1318536451 795072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have pathological threads that constitute ten thousand things to handle. < 1318536452 749246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not to do with visibility < 1318536458 31343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to do with /knowing whether I've handled them/ < 1318536467 261745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care if they stay visible; in fact I want them to < 1318536475 496163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact, most of the messages I care about flagging are all in the same thread < 1318536484 141249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Well, it's not exactly burdensome to have a few additional messages not-marked-as-handled until you handle them all. < 1318536489 295162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, assume a vaguely charitable interpretation. < 1318536491 659665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because students have a habit of just hitting "reply" to an arbitrary message authored by the right person < 1318536496 438705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm trying to handle each of them exactly ones < 1318536497 979956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*once < 1318536511 235598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if it's thread-based. < 1318536523 310307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't want it to be thread-based < 1318536540 256422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just justifying it being thread-based. You're arguing like zzo. < 1318536540 710276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally find threading to be really awkward because it takes the messages out of chronological order < 1318536559 89705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's much easier to mentally reconstruct the threading (which is obvious from the content of the email) than the timing (which isn't) < 1318538325 863973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1318538680 722346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooo Programming in the 21st Century redesigned I cannot deal with change. < 1318538782 954954 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well go to Programming in the 20th Century, then < 1318538797 987149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1318538846 539730 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming in the Seventeenth Century < 1318538867 413627 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accidentally discovers there's a hexham in new south wales < 1318538889 571416 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while stalking LTDave from the iwc forum, no less < 1318538896 40333 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one in Victoria too < 1318538997 544012 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's mentioned in the wikipedia page for the location on his profile) < 1318539052 701383 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only fair, since he was talking about stalking DMM < 1318539131 52461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :leibniz made a calculating machine about then, didn't he < 1318539142 638230 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(17th century) < 1318539271 822252 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hexham is a suburb of the city of Newcastle, about 15 kilometres (9 mi) inland from Newcastle in [...]" < 1318539308 509680 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very Liebniz < 1318539322 557795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You're kidding me. < 1318539343 856215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Hexham,+Victoria,+Australia&hl=en&ll=-37.996163,142.69043&spn=2.454485,5.410767&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.745606,43.286133&vpsrc=6&hnear=Hexham+Victoria,+Australia&t=m&z=8 < 1318539366 56637 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a direct wikipedia quote. < 1318539370 119604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know augh. < 1318539379 354294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mosquito species Ochlerotatus alternans is common in the area and adults, famed for their size and ferocity, are referred to as "Hexham Greys".[9] The most famous Hexham Grey is "Ossie the Mossie", (sometimes spelled as "Ozzie the Mozzie") a large model of a mosquito that sits atop the Hexham Bowling Club sign at the corner of the Pacific Highway and Old Maitland Road in Hexham.[10] The previous "Ossie" was replaced with a new "Ossie" (pictur < 1318539379 500932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed) in 2005.[11] Ozzie disappeared from the sign in early February 2010 and was replaced in April 2010 < 1318539418 883956 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1318539426 830512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...We have a bowling club < 1318539452 974683 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two esolangers in Hexham < 1318539458 598787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are three Hexhams in the world < 1318539477 463761 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you LTDave isn't actually from hexham, just close < 1318539486 799119 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict < 1318539490 574085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I refuse to believe that there are any esolangers in any other Hexhams of the world. < 1318539532 764835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to ask Google Maps to tell me about all the Hexhams it knows? < 1318539535 404635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It knows at least three, after all. < 1318539546 956964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexham_(disambiguation) just lists us plus the two Australian towns. < 1318539552 155810 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's exactly thee < 1318539554 618717 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three < 1318539596 781218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. OK, who's going to go down there and ask them for their esolangers? < 1318539613 695112 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nominate itidus20 < 1318539638 464150 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318539646 735406 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm he hasn't been here in a while, has he? < 1318539661 770787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future me wrote an IM in Feather < 1318539662 792773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has he been here since Phantom_Hoover found those videos of him. < 1318539674 626206 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1318539691 733134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he posted a YouTube video and PH looked at the other videos on the channel and that was when we found the glory of instant coffee. < 1318539790 894234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, the instant coffee. < 1318540001 573173 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1318540585 597112 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-84-233.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: I'm a cuboid! < 1318541313 577163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hey, tell me why Data.Sequence doesn't export its finger tree implementation. < 1318541420 561778 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite generic, iirc it is specialized to Int weights < 1318541516 163123 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's more of a use case than a general finger tree < 1318541721 436068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol hi gaiz < 1318541759 524073 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall i tried genuine Data.FingerTree for http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/Dupdog.hs < 1318541793 262618 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i didn't like Int making it size limited.) < 1318541793 760324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEISS-EM-109-ELECTRON-MICROSCOPE-COMPLETE-AND-GREAT-CONDITION-/280753510541?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415e36988d < 1318541806 616520 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lol dupdog. < 1318541808 496265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best language. < 1318541812 205735 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in a world where $500 is a reasonable price for an electron microscope what < 1318541827 643819 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've considered creating a new language based on dupdog, but I have absolutely no idea how to make it interesting. < 1318541870 332555 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pierogi are of an unknown origin. Myth has it that were invented in the kitchen of humble shoemaker Jonathan Hanigosky. He later died from choking on a rather large perogi. < 1318541953 27726 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not convinced that haskell file could possibly compile, i'm using FingerTree unqualified... < 1318541997 536688 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made some of these things today. I now desire more delicious eastern European food. < 1318542010 467924 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pierogi would be a good esolang. I think < 1318542020 67190 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just to make this train of thought on topic, you know) < 1318542020 246673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's not imported qualified < 1318542027 662243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1318542028 224064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strax is a good name, but I lent it to elliott. < 1318542031 430553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's not quite generic, iirc it is specialized to Int weights < 1318542035 159214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but my weights are Ints :P < 1318542042 819440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/fingertree/0.0.1.0/doc/html/Data-FingerTree.html has generic finger trees, but dammit I want the specialised version < 1318542074 925417 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: couldn't you SPECIALISE it? < 1318542086 811526 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Haskell also accept SPECIALIZE? < 1318542216 883532 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, so ruskie apparently means dumpling. But is also American slang for a Russian? wat? < 1318542247 132265 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russkie is slang for Russian. < 1318542285 702265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1318542335 843491 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so... the question for improving upon the concept of dupdog is. < 1318542347 164208 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1318542349 343994 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kinds of source code transformations can one do that resule in meaningful data / control flow changes. < 1318542350 322474 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/TypeDirectedNameResolution < 1318542354 300681 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*result < 1318542358 490307 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1318542404 948490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: You don't even know Haskell, you have no right getting excited about proposals. < 1318542433 74807 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TypeDirectedNameResolution is kind of bad actually. < 1318542446 42482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he doesn't? < 1318542448 205749 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read it yet, just the problem it's supposed to solve >.> < 1318542479 279595 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1318542576 435400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He took about half an hour to write a program to concatenate the files named in the argument list. < 1318542601 650158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I haven't seen any indication that he's written any Haskell program that isn't hello world, either. < 1318542611 803110 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wrote a BF interpreter once < 1318542617 61529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so wait, even when he was a linguistic Casanova, he didn't bother to learn Haskell? < 1318542621 177216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: You think you could replicate that? < 1318542633 561252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't written a BF interpreter in Haskell. < 1318542645 531273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Every time I tell him to learn it instead of whatever he's considering he says he wants something he can use ~practically~ not something MEGA-MATHEMATICAL that would ~~blow his mind~~. < 1318542645 678072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have actually tried, but I gave up. < 1318542648 582563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because it doesn't really change anything except for making qualified names a little more convenient via a OO-like syntax, and adds yet another usage for the . lexeme < 1318542656 764835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If he objects to this I'll find a quote saying almost exactly that in the logs.) < 1318542664 230195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I fear you are going to fall into a well of ~s. < 1318542667 263174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Anyway it still sucks that it isn't exported. < 1318542669 384243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ~~~~~~~~~~````````` < 1318542677 744172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoots elliott. < 1318542689 718776 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a bf interpreter. < 1318542693 670673 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely that's only for Ruby... < 1318542697 796632 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I said that < 1318542699 112389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the only meaningful Haskell program I've written, honestly. < 1318542701 414849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoots CakeProphet's BF interpreter. < 1318542709 986733 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but but... it's so good. < 1318542722 59258 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's probably not that great. < 1318542733 222904 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does use (wait for it) A ZIPPER < 1318542737 509088 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, doesn't matter, you may now pick a random point in the file and put the word 'bullet' in it. < 1318542745 987360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with.... HIGHER-ORDER FUCTIONS ON THE ZIPPER. -gasp- < 1318542751 433591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure that FingerTree isn't the one I linked to? < 1318542752 127324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dupdog < 1318542764 780875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A zipper is the obvious way to do a BF tape. < 1318542769 942945 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know. < 1318542771 875144 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why I used it. < 1318542776 587916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing extraordinary about the choice. < 1318542791 839085 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i would assume it is... < 1318542792 669587 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION for some reason has the currently pointed value be separate from either list < 1318542804 570546 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: hey so do I. < 1318542814 263365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you said you wrote it < 1318542822 207918 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no i didn't < 1318542838 69721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh "i tried" ok < 1318542858 568235 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think that an efficient dupdog interpreter is actually somewhat difficult. < 1318542859 707472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe I should just write my own finger trees < 1318542862 527969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with all the reversing and doubling. < 1318542876 190960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversing just changes which end you index from. < 1318542892 554682 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes you could use a bunch of state... < 1318542895 59914 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: my alternative idea would have been using ropes < 1318542898 328509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly one bit of state. < 1318542907 549528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what _I'm_ trying to write < 1318542914 668156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: except ropes still have O(n) reversing < 1318542915 354570 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well no you can use state also for the character translations. < 1318542929 286022 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well of course with a direction bit < 1318542931 711245 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I believe they rotate. < 1318542945 32588 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a functional data structure that has O(1) access to both ends and less efficient access in the middle? < 1318542958 40461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: yes, finger trees < 1318542960 49023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: yes, finger trees < 1318542962 754508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka Data.Sequence < 1318542965 788247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka functional lists < 1318542971 61553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(list as in python list or whatever) < 1318542991 692357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of. < 1318542992 865692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of wish Seqs were lazy somehow :) < 1318543003 160261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds < 1318543006 108945 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter-intuitive. < 1318543010 792425 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1318543013 981580 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant seq < 1318543018 454942 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like some kind of weird Seq structure < 1318543026 146611 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind. :P < 1318543064 309421 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how do you feel about TDNR? < 1318543097 769712 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just kind of looks like a terrible hack to get some OO-style syntax to me. < 1318543107 275309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already argued with you about TDNR so don't. < 1318543118 929084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you approve of it. okay. < 1318543136 307170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never said that. < 1318543154 872890 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much to argue about then if we agree.... < 1318543179 287546 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i am wondering if Data.FingerTree is lazy enough for my Dupdog.hs to actually work efficiently on huge duplications < 1318543195 705381 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the intent of not using Int, but... < 1318543204 355686 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1318543265 40909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure how to make a loop entirely out of source code transformations. < 1318543286 824429 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quine, or not to quine < 1318543318 927352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: see SMITH < 1318543365 824493 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, i don't think anyone has proved dupdog conclusively non-tc < 1318543379 172302 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't see how it could be TC. < 1318543392 389040 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's not a proof >:P < 1318543396 685663 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure. < 1318543402 863832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: we said the same about ():^ < 1318543415 450616 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that man has a nose on his forehead. < 1318543451 653465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one prove something non-TC? < 1318543460 888644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tc xs [] = xs; tc xs (Push x:ps) = tc (x:xs) ps; tc (x:xs) (Dup:ps) = tc (x:x:xs) ps; tc (x:xs) (Call:ps) = tc (tc xs x) ps < 1318543462 598027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing-complete. < 1318543474 590376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given data Ins = Push [Ins] | Dup | Call) < 1318543500 101030 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is technically unbounded memory in that you can just duplicate everything a lot. < 1318543508 347033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you want. < 1318543531 590963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: (My "tc" interpreter has been proved Turing-complete.) < 1318543537 351428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. It attempts to implement a language formally proven TC. < 1318543584 247916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then mfit-? is a conditional < 1318543588 38729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Anyway, Dupdog has a way to make the program "larger", which is a kind of control structure, and it has a conditional. < 1318543597 142240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has another kind of control (reverse). < 1318543600 416721 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a no-op would probably be helpful for getting precise control. < 1318543624 33530 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are no no-ops. everything does something. < 1318543686 818122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway I don't really want to use the fingertree package because (a) it uses fundeps in a way that should really be type families and (b) I bet it's less tuned than the Data.Sequence specialisation that would work for me :P < 1318543706 480920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (I want to create a rope type based on a finger tree of UTF-8 bytestrings, because Text is disappointing in its internals) < 1318543856 73635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1318543857 82661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1318543861 745905 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what operations ropes are supposed to have, in particular what you don't get from Seq < 1318543861 910063 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should call them ElliottCables < 1318543884 246809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Seq Char would give me the same operations, but be ridiculously inefficient < 1318543888 701311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in terms of memory usage, at least < 1318543900 315059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which is why ropes use packed arrays at the leaves < 1318543925 611918 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. so you actually _don't_ want Seq, because you don't want the default valuation of 1 for each leaf < 1318543925 758932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously (Seq ByteString) doesn't work because the length of the ByteString (in _codepoints_ once decoded) contributes to length, indexing, etc. < 1318543965 569151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right. < 1318543991 400157 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even if it _did_ export its data structure, it wouldn't help. < 1318543998 720149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er are you sure < 1318544008 309514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Sized a where < 1318544008 456228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : size :: a -> Int < 1318544011 35772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Data.Sequence source < 1318544020 726384 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1318544064 18126 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf did i have to let windows install an update right now < 1318544069 485968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure what the < 1318544069 812354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Digit a < 1318544069 959031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : = One a < 1318544069 959243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Two a a < 1318544071 375630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Three a a a < 1318544073 309639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Four a a a a < 1318544075 380523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing is about though < 1318544087 598276 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fingertrees? < 1318544101 980000 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: link to Data.Sequence source please < 1318544102 412306 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the fingertree paper < 1318544123 488975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I probably should, but I swear I've implemented them without that before :-P < 1318544127 60594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/containers/src/Data-Sequence.html < 1318544202 484069 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1318544385 417373 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh indeed the Elem type is what enforces size 1 < 1318544577 990442 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to fix shitty third party peripherals? I have a rock band drum kit that works perfectly...until you decide to play faster than 10 notes per second. Then it starts dropping taps, and if you go even faster it drops all of them. < 1318544588 870063 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a problem that would be easy, hard or impossible to fix? < 1318544780 959919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You should fix this problem in the next Haskell Report you write. < 1318544789 470494 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1318544835 142798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is it out yet. < 1318545035 376448 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1318545045 921865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sheesh. < 1318545168 466624 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1318545200 984182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- > a = array (1,100) ((1,1) : [(i, i * a!(i-1)) | i <- [2..100]]) < 1318545204 26997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I had no idea that was valid < 1318545266 311922 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict in the indices, lazy in the values < 1318545362 761046 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2397 Troof < 1318545568 558622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The Google Books data omit years in which there were no occurrences, right? < 1318545697 983109 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`runperl print (("buy new engine", "buy used car")[int(rand(2))]) < 1318545699 790784 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: runperl: not found < 1318545702 867736 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1318545703 941401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1318545705 600650 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY < 1318545714 598470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`haskell main = putStrLn "Hello, World!" < 1318545716 506276 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: haskell: not found < 1318545717 704039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYYYYYY < 1318545755 122887 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl print (("buy new engine", "buy used car")[int(rand(2))]) < 1318545757 596154 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ sh: -c: line 0: `perl print (("buy new engine", "buy used car")[int(rand(2))])' < 1318545760 642328 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run haskell main = putStrLn "Hello, World!" < 1318545763 237290 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: haskell: command not found < 1318545806 9375 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: needs improvement how? < 1318545816 730123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: See logs. < 1318545828 34652 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1318545834 651375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go; there's the improvement. < 1318545900 816661 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not have it on HackEgo as well? < 1318545922 970024 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: reminds me of http://www.vbs.tv/en-se/guidetosex/icelandic-elf-sex (the rest of the site might be a bit nsfw, but this video is safe) < 1318545932 559916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because not only was it redundant and clutters the listing of bin, it was distinctly inferior in a number of ways, all of which are satisfied by HackEgo, but none of which I will list because I'm brbing this very second. < 1318545935 207996 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm bin/runpython < 1318545937 18621 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `bin/runpython': No such file or directory < 1318545949 420234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: inferior in what way. < 1318545949 613838 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. for some people, elves coming to fuck you in the night is considered a good thing < 1318545956 664312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: As I said, brbing. < 1318545974 307696 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: inferior in what way. (when you get back, silly billy) < 1318546120 18622 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :please yoursELF bahahahahaha < 1318546227 938474 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elf sperm is very shimmery. < 1318546251 956232 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1318546545 957077 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1318546790 111661 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: AAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1318547091 765874 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1318547802 863379 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1318548044 117451 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elves are terrific. They inspire terror. < 1318548061 713907 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think that word is suppose to be "inspire", but I forget what it is) < 1318548070 495870 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANd also that quote ruined the word "terrific" for me < 1318548211 456248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1318549449 646440 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1318549459 164785 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1318549700 411448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print (("get new engine", "get used car")[int(rand(2))])' < 1318549702 454476 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :get new engine < 1318549708 590717 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solve the problems in my life pseudorandomly < 1318549760 519012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you think I should just drop the lines with less than five grams? < 1318549772 121968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There seem to be rather a lot of them: < 1318549774 82701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("\"* The latter ",54) < 1318549776 978052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("\"* Thus ",73) < 1318549783 338881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("\"* that is ",75) < 1318550021 663973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Hey, give me some Perl to print only the line after the line matching a regex. < 1318550058 812437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a remanufactured engine with 100k mile warranty is $2000, and will basically have my car running good as new for a few years. or I could get a used car for $3000-$6000 that may need lots of work or who knows what... < 1318550071 193432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the engine is the better choice, even though people traditionally do not replace engines. < 1318550088 806382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm okay < 1318550110 805735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, move somewhere where cars are unnecessary. < 1318550131 277529 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cars are unnecessary everywhere. < 1318550139 22106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol ^^ < 1318550160 436699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a car is vital to my everyday existence. < 1318550166 655244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Not in the US. < 1318550168 105286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1318550172 563779 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of the best way to do this. < 1318550182 880883 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -ne 'print if $p;$p=0;$p=/regexp/' < 1318550188 142094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks shachaf. < 1318550188 768588 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know Perl. < 1318550194 545640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I could have written that myself, but I didn't want to.) < 1318550199 414114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think = /regexp/ works. < 1318550201 406703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er what < 1318550201 858468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1318550204 109520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it should. < 1318550211 265094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can do "print if /.../". < 1318550218 879140 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my reasoning. < 1318550237 628371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....oh, yeah that's the easiest way I guess. lol < 1318550240 460778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("\"",13007218) < 1318550240 607505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would explain why there's a pause before it prints that line. < 1318550252 949289 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even initialize the variable. < 1318550258 150988 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't know how to do that in Perl. < 1318550260 979670 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not in programming-mode currently. < 1318550264 287005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: BEGIN{...} < 1318550264 601116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you don't need to. < 1318550275 51900 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: I like CakeProphet's solution. < 1318550286 607476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the $p = 0 is also not necessary. < 1318550291 462438 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$p equals undef by default < 1318550293 122384 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is false. < 1318550296 62278 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It gets reset on every iteration? < 1318550302 291122 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really? < 1318550307 313239 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked first. < 1318550309 609156 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... are you sure. < 1318550312 405090 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1318550315 223361 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't, then presumably the =0 is necessary. < 1318550320 299175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is wrong. < 1318550322 652635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is right. < 1318550325 313767 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1318550330 333416 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is wrong. < 1318550331 967448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If CakeProphet was right, it wouldn't work at all, because the variable would be reset every iteration. < 1318550332 341760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it reset. < 1318550335 93298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't. < 1318550338 825566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why shachaf is right. < 1318550341 303850 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is right. < 1318550341 540758 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was saying. < 1318550342 784080 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is wrong. < 1318550344 57719 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't reset. < 1318550353 36785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How are you wrong? < 1318550356 262184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked, after all. < 1318550367 454708 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, but the $p=0 is unnecessary. < 1318550370 725840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the $p=0 is unecessary not that he's wrong. < 1318550374 604743 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was in fact just stupid. < 1318550379 442758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Are you sure? < 1318550383 644245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will stay true after the first line printed. < 1318550383 875288 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -ne 'print if $p;$p=/foo/' < 1318550385 482866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1318550390 867287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why mutable variables suck. < 1318550391 761693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1318550392 758554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Code/ngrams$ ls -lh googlebooks-eng-all-5gram-20090715-478.csv foo < 1318550392 905188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-rw-r-- 1 elliott elliott 19M 2011-10-14 00:52 foo < 1318550393 51897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 936M 2010-12-25 00:03 googlebooks-eng-all-5gram-20090715-478.csv < 1318550394 426719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same fucking data.