←2011-10-22 2011-10-23 2011-10-24→ ↑2011 ↑all
00:00:17 <elliott> yes
00:00:20 <Vorpal> oh okay
00:00:29 <oerjan> meanwhile i was absolutely, 100% certified serious.
00:00:33 <pikhq> English: because word formation should be nontrivial.
00:00:42 <Vorpal> pikhq, damn right.
00:00:52 <Vorpal> when even natives can't figure it out
00:01:20 <Vorpal> pikhq, I mean, as a non-native speaker I expect I wouldn't be good at it. But I find that native speakers are not much better at it than me.
00:01:27 <pikhq> Also, vestigial grammar is fun.
00:01:48 <Vorpal> In Swedish however it is usually quite easy to form new words
00:02:08 <Vorpal> pikhq, what does that mean?
00:02:13 <pikhq> For instance: English features Germanic strong verbs. Barely.
00:02:21 <Vorpal> oh?
00:02:21 <pikhq> We call them "irregular".
00:02:25 <Vorpal> oh right
00:02:39 <pikhq> Because there's not many strong verbs left.
00:02:56 <Vorpal> pikhq, they are quite irregular though. There is no pattern to them.
00:03:02 <oerjan> they mostly died during the plague
00:03:12 <CakeProphet> it seems that
00:03:21 <CakeProphet> no matter how careful I am. sieges always end in huge clusterfucks.
00:03:30 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, some game?
00:03:36 <pikhq> No, there is a pattern. Due to the infrequency of them, the pattern has ceased to be readily apparent to speakers.
00:03:36 <CakeProphet> df.
00:03:38 <elliott> CakeProphet: agreed, just ask agora :P
00:03:49 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, easy. Trap defence is best. But also quite boring
00:03:57 <oerjan> fling flang flung
00:03:59 <elliott> trap defence doesn't really solve sieges
00:04:01 <elliott> if they just stand there
00:04:03 <Vorpal> pikhq, there must be a lot of variants to the pattern then.
00:04:04 <elliott> works for ambushes
00:04:07 <pikhq> Also, it doesn't help that there's 6 classes of strong verb, each with their own conjugation rules.
00:04:11 <oerjan> spim spam spum
00:04:14 <CakeProphet> yes they usually just stand there
00:04:18 <Vorpal> elliott, trap the *entire* maåp
00:04:19 <Vorpal> map*
00:04:24 <CakeProphet> what I've been doing at that point is setting up ballistas and killing them from afar
00:04:26 <elliott> Vorpal: practical
00:04:29 <elliott> CakeProphet: waste of time
00:04:32 <CakeProphet> yeah.
00:04:37 <elliott> CakeProphet: just use danger rooms :P
00:04:39 <Vorpal> elliott, no, but the result should be hilarious
00:04:56 <pikhq> Vorpal: It's a feature common to all West Germanic languages, but only really noteworthy historically, and in modern German and Dutch.
00:05:02 <Vorpal> elliott, I actually want to trap the entire border of the map with serrated glass disks or such once.
00:05:15 <CakeProphet> lost about 20 people in that one.
00:05:22 <elliott> CakeProphet: you're doin it wrong
00:05:23 <pikhq> (it is *not* in Afrikaans)
00:05:29 -!- ive has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
00:05:30 <Vorpal> pikhq, yeah, Swedish have irregular verbs too I think. Can't think of any example atm
00:05:40 <Vorpal> pikhq, why Afrikaans in particular
00:05:53 <oerjan> synge sang sunget
00:06:05 <Vorpal> oerjan, sing?
00:06:08 <CakeProphet> also it seems that no matter how many "hey don't pick shit up orders " I set
00:06:09 <pikhq> Afrikaans has just lost strong verbs.
00:06:14 <CakeProphet> civilians end up swarming onto battlefields
00:06:14 <Vorpal> sjung sjöng sjungit
00:06:16 <Vorpal> so yeah irregular
00:06:19 <oerjan> yes, that's what it means
00:06:38 <oerjan> skrive skrev skrevet
00:06:41 <Vorpal> pikhq, what do you call the craziness with "to be"
00:06:53 <Vorpal> pikhq, am, are, is and so on
00:07:12 <oerjan> er var vært
00:07:16 <Vorpal> yes that
00:07:23 <Vorpal> wait what is the third form?
00:07:26 <Vorpal> for that one
00:07:29 <Vorpal> är var varit?
00:07:35 <Vorpal> err. No?
00:07:36 <pikhq> Vorpal: I *think* that's a carry-over from the Scandinavian languages?
00:07:40 -!- tiffany has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:07:41 <pikhq> Erm. North Germanic.
00:07:44 <oerjan> Vorpal: i assume
00:07:47 <Vorpal> pikhq, we don't have that these days at least
00:08:02 <Vorpal> pikhq, we just use "är" for first person, second person and so on
00:08:19 <Vorpal> could be we (sensibly) lost that
00:08:25 <oerjan> i believe it was "ek em" in norse. even the icelandic have lost some of it
00:08:32 <Vorpal> heh
00:09:20 <CakeProphet> ugh, also
00:09:28 <CakeProphet> why is it when I try to build things in mass some of it gets suspended.
00:09:41 <elliott> bad planning
00:09:59 <CakeProphet> ?
00:10:10 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, resources needed for other constructions are under a construction that is planned before it
00:10:15 <Vorpal> that suspends for example
00:10:24 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, building is basically a stack
00:10:33 <Vorpal> so start with whatever you want to be built last
00:10:50 <CakeProphet> I'm just trying to build a large wall.
00:11:07 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, are there stones under it? that could be used to build different parts of the same wall?
00:11:10 <Vorpal> if so, there you are
00:11:29 <CakeProphet> I don't /think/ so.
00:11:58 <pikhq> Aaah. Part of it seems to be that English lost almost all of its case system.
00:12:17 <pikhq> (which is now a vestigial feature in its pronouns)
00:12:24 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, idea: wall the entire map, as close to the border as possible. Leave a long trap filled path in to the trading post
00:13:02 <pikhq> Language change does confusing things.
00:13:04 <Vorpal> if hilly terrain: cut off (by deramping) the edge to split it in many sections you can't walk between.
00:13:07 <Vorpal> pikhq, yeah
00:13:13 <CakeProphet> .....wtf my manager died
00:13:16 <CakeProphet> WHY
00:13:22 <oerjan> <Vorpal> so start with whatever you want to be built last <-- dwarfs are so logical
00:13:24 <CakeProphet> why do you stupidly rush out into battles.
00:13:26 <Vorpal> pikhq,
00:13:27 <elliott> CakeProphet: rip
00:13:33 <elliott> CakeProphet: why is he part of your military
00:13:40 <Vorpal> pikhq,* you still have the s for third persons on verbs. Swedish don't have that at all.
00:13:59 <CakeProphet> elliott: he's not dude.
00:14:19 <oerjan> CakeProphet: he got hemorrhoids. really nasty ones.
00:14:22 <CakeProphet> remember how I said civilians keep rushing into battles even though I turn off all the auto-gather stuff?
00:14:30 <Vorpal> I have two persons able to do the manager work. Because the manager goes to sleep when I need him most.
00:15:38 <Vorpal> <oerjan> <Vorpal> so start with whatever you want to be built last <-- dwarfs are so logical <-- it actually makes sense. What if you need to urgently do a construction right now? then if you had a queue you would have to clear it out. With a stack it is easier
00:15:46 <Vorpal> of course a deque would be even better
00:16:29 <olsner> "<oerjan> skrive skrev skrevet" - Skrive wrote the scrotum?
00:16:41 <Vorpal> olsner, XD
00:16:50 <oerjan> olsner: well yes it's actually ambiguous in norwegian
00:16:57 <oerjan> different tone though
00:16:57 <Vorpal> haha
00:17:44 <olsner> hmm, if that was the way we wrote it, I think it would have a different tone in swedish too
00:18:30 <oerjan> today's wikipedia "In the news" looks strangely synchronistic. four items about people or things coming to an end, followed by an item about a book named "The Sense of an Ending".
00:18:41 <Vorpal> olsner, how could it be a different tone in Swedish? We don't have "skrevet" as ambiguous.
00:19:26 <Vorpal> well I guess it could be a tone of wtfness at that interpretation
00:19:43 <elliott> oerjan: things on the wp main page are rarely coincidences :P
00:19:57 <pikhq> Hrm. "Skrive skrev skrevet" *almost* looks like English nonsense.
00:20:01 <oerjan> elliott: shush you infidel unbeliever
00:20:24 <pikhq> "Skrive skrove skrevets" looks a bit better.
00:20:33 <oerjan> elliott: the coincidence is all those things ending in the same week
00:20:51 <Vorpal> pikhq, are those actual English words?
00:20:53 <olsner> Vorpal: I think 'skrevet' has the different tone already, so it's more like another word spelled the same way would usually have the normal tone
00:20:54 <pikhq> Vorpal: No.
00:21:12 <Vorpal> oerjan, there are 5 things coming to and end. And the book stuck between the last too
00:21:13 <Vorpal> two*
00:21:19 <pikhq> Vorpal: But it parses to me as "English sentence composed of 3 words I don't know".
00:21:19 <oerjan> yes
00:21:51 <Vorpal> pikhq, heh
00:21:52 <olsner> ... it's all in the skroving of the skrevets
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00:22:13 <Vorpal> pikhq, that is almost Swedish, skrov = hull (of a boat)
00:22:24 <Vorpal> skrovet would be "the hull"
00:22:42 <Vorpal> "Skrive" sounds like an Norwegian name
00:22:49 <Vorpal> and "skrevets", well, drop the s
00:22:50 <pikhq_> Also, "Skrive skrove a skrevet" for singular "skrevet".
00:23:11 <Vorpal> pikhq_, à would work I guess.
00:23:19 <Vorpal> but not for English
00:23:47 <Vorpal> or it would for English
00:23:53 <Vorpal> but in the "each" sense
00:23:55 <pikhq_> Yeah, English doesn't really handle singular/plural quite that way...
00:24:33 <Vorpal> pikhq_, just learn Swedish or Norwegian and do Scandinavian nonsense instead :D
00:24:33 <olsner> maybe there are normal skrevets, and special skrove skrevets for skroving... and for some reason the skrove skrevets need skriving
00:24:48 <Vorpal> olsner, ouch :P
00:24:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:25:14 <oerjan> fru ibsens ripsbusker og andre sjuksköterskar
00:25:17 <pikhq_> olsner: Also possible. But I was interpreting "Skrive" as a name.
00:25:22 <pikhq_> Sure works as an imperative, though.
00:25:23 <CakeProphet> I'm definitely fucked if there's another siege.
00:25:28 <Vorpal> olsner, hm skrovning would work in Swedish. The act of hulling a boat I guess
00:25:51 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:25:54 <Vorpal> oerjan, ripsbusker?
00:26:03 <Vorpal> oerjan, some form of shrub?
00:26:13 <pikhq_> Oh, better. "Skrive" works just fine as a verb, with past tense "skrove", gerund "skroving".
00:26:20 <oerjan> yes, with red sour berries
00:26:29 <Vorpal> oerjan, I read that as "Lady Ibsen's rip-shrubs and other nurses"
00:26:38 <Vorpal> which doesn't make a whole lot of sense
00:26:43 <pikhq_> So, "Skrive skrove skrevets" would parse as "Hull hulled hulls", I think.
00:26:54 <pikhq_> Or something.
00:26:55 <Vorpal> pikhq_, in which language?
00:27:08 <pikhq_> Vorpal: English with a verb "skrive".
00:27:27 <pikhq_> Which I cannot make myself handle in any way *but* as an "irregular" verb.
00:27:27 <Vorpal> pikhq_, skriv is related to write, skrov is related to hull. So Maybe Write hull writes?
00:27:40 <CakeProphet> elliott: I'm not really sure I get the diagonal flow thing.
00:27:42 <pikhq_> Well, what would make sense for "skrevet"?
00:27:55 <CakeProphet> it just means likee... shift the aquedact diagonally on a horizontal level?
00:28:02 <pikhq_> Vorpal: "Skrove" to me parses as a past tense of "skrive".
00:28:04 <oerjan> Vorpal: it wasn't meant to make sense, it was a norwegian tongue-twister seguing into a swedish one
00:28:08 <Vorpal> pikhq_, well skrevet = the scrotum
00:28:14 <Vorpal> pikhq_, hm
00:28:24 <pikhq_> Ah. So, "Write written scrotums"?
00:28:40 <Vorpal> pikhq_, I'm so confused by now. No idea.
00:28:50 <oerjan> pikhq_: skrive is cognate to scribe, i believe
00:29:02 <pikhq_> No, that would be "skrive skriven skrevets"...
00:29:12 <Vorpal> pikhq_, what are you doing?
00:29:24 <pikhq_> Vorpal: Messing around.
00:29:30 <Vorpal> right, carry on
00:29:41 <pikhq_> Trying to treat "skrive" as a verb and see what happens.
00:30:24 <Vorpal> pikhq_, yeah, well, I'm not a native speaker. Kind of hard for me to do that in English. And it wouldn't work in Swedish due to the e at the end.
00:30:26 <pikhq_> And finding it interesting that my natural inclination is to go with an irregular conjugation.
00:30:41 <Vorpal> pikhq_, anyway skriva (the Swedish variant) is irregular
00:30:58 <oerjan> Vorpal: vinbär, apparently
00:31:03 <Vorpal> oerjan, oh okay
00:31:55 <pikhq_> Yup. "skrive" fits the pattern for a class 1 strong verb, hence why I'm treating it that way without thinking about it.
00:32:21 <pikhq_> (other examples in English: "ride/rode/ridden", "write/wrote/written", "shine/shone/shone")
00:33:01 <Vorpal> hm what with the modern ability to record audio and video, do you think that pronunciation will start to change slower in the future?
00:33:35 <Vorpal> pikhq_, so skrive skrove skridden?
00:33:43 <CakeProphet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/help.png am I doin' it right?
00:33:51 <CakeProphet> this is for a 3-width channel
00:33:54 <pikhq_> "Skrive/skrove/skriven" is how I'm getting it.
00:33:59 <pikhq_> By analogy with "drive/drove/driven".
00:34:05 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, no, the GTK+ theme is the wrong one
00:34:19 <oerjan> Vorpal: im 'spicious u theory
00:34:25 <monqy> dive dove diven
00:34:34 <CakeProphet> uh, any df water experts here?
00:34:47 <Vorpal> oerjan, well that is spelling (or lack of it) rather than pronunciation
00:34:50 <elliott> CakeProphet: jiggy is a stupid name
00:34:52 <monqy> diven sounds a bit weird
00:34:56 <Vorpal> oerjan, I specifically asked about pronunciation
00:35:01 <pikhq_> monqy: Yeah.
00:35:01 <monqy> did som,eone name someone jiggY? that's a bAd name
00:35:07 <CakeProphet> can everyone please stop paying attention to things that aren't related to my question. :P
00:35:16 <elliott> also clean up your panel
00:35:23 <monqy> ahh, skeype
00:35:23 <Vorpal> oh yeah it is a mess
00:35:36 <CakeProphet> I think by "mess" you mean perfectly organized.
00:35:47 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, also why 3 terminal windows? Have you tried tabs in the terminal emulator?
00:35:56 <CakeProphet> ... -_-
00:35:56 <Vorpal> oh wait, 4
00:36:08 <elliott> CakeProphet: also, change your name, adam is a stupid name
00:36:19 <CakeProphet> HELP. WATER. FLOODING FORTS.
00:36:20 <monqy> is that "maria"?
00:36:24 <CakeProphet> AM I DOING IT RIGHT?
00:36:32 <monqy> mine's "okay"
00:36:36 <monqy> i think it's....okay
00:36:38 <olsner> monqy: could be mari or marie as well
00:36:49 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, is the green one the memory meter?
00:36:52 <monqy> could be mario
00:36:53 <monqy> who knows
00:36:55 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: yes
00:37:10 <monqy> but I trust cakeprophet wouldn't name it mario. that would just be bad.
00:37:11 -!- pikhq has joined.
00:37:13 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, you need more RAM. Too much of it used. Unless most is disk cache
00:37:18 <CakeProphet> ..................................
00:37:19 <olsner> you seem to be using a gui file manager too, that can't be good
00:37:21 <CakeProphet> I don't
00:37:21 <CakeProphet> care
00:37:22 <CakeProphet> about
00:37:22 <CakeProphet> any
00:37:25 <CakeProphet> of
00:37:27 <CakeProphet> that
00:37:36 <monqy> 12 hour clock? seriously?
00:37:44 <CakeProphet> yes, I'm an American.
00:37:44 <Vorpal> yeah wtf about that
00:37:51 <elliott> how is that relevant
00:37:59 <olsner> CakeProphet: ... you wanted to know whether you were "doing it right", we're answering
00:38:02 <CakeProphet> ...I am accustomed to 12-hour clocks?
00:38:02 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, also wlan? Not ethernet?
00:38:22 <pikhq> All this discussion of English irregular verbs makes me really freaking glad that Japanese is more regular.
00:38:25 <CakeProphet> no I'm specifically asking
00:38:30 <CakeProphet> if this diagonal arrangement
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00:38:34 <monqy> good thing im japanese
00:38:34 <CakeProphet> is what df wiki is talking about.
00:38:40 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, answer: no
00:38:46 <CakeProphet> then what does it mean?
00:38:51 <pikhq> monqy: Oh, then you got fucked learning English. Congrats. :P
00:38:53 <Vorpal> what it actually means
00:39:00 <monqy> i jest
00:39:01 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, you know, shift-prtscreen would have saved you all this
00:39:07 <pikhq> I figured.
00:39:24 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, the corridor wideness must be like this
00:39:25 <CakeProphet> but yes, my computer looks different from yours.
00:39:26 <Vorpal> x
00:39:28 <Vorpal> x
00:39:30 <elliott> hi numero
00:39:30 <Vorpal> gah
00:39:31 <Vorpal> X
00:39:31 <elliott> `? welcome
00:39:32 <Vorpal> X
00:39:34 <Vorpal> X
00:39:35 <Vorpal> X
00:39:36 <Vorpal> X
00:39:37 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
00:39:38 <Vorpal> there
00:39:40 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, see?
00:39:42 <CakeProphet> ....no
00:39:48 <monqy> X
00:39:54 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, not using monospace font?
00:39:55 <Vorpal> for irc
00:39:55 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:39:59 <Vorpal> if not then it is your own issue
00:40:02 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: no I am.
00:40:15 <CakeProphet> I just don't get what you mean. 1-tile wide?
00:40:28 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, well it must be a proper diagonal. As in 0 tiles wide at the very corner
00:40:37 <Vorpal> iirc
00:40:48 <CakeProphet> can you like....
00:40:58 <CakeProphet> screenshot a designation in df so I can visualize this.
00:41:26 <CakeProphet> I mean I think I get the diagonalness, but...
00:41:32 <CakeProphet> how do you maintain the same flow?
00:41:34 <Vorpal> no I can't run df on the computer I'm on atm
00:41:42 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, you want to cut away the pressure right?
00:41:43 <CakeProphet> atms make poor computers.
00:41:46 <CakeProphet> most are written in Java.
00:41:51 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: correct.
00:42:25 <olsner> most are written in Java? I thought they all used OS/2 and Presentation Manager
00:42:43 <olsner> could be REXX
00:42:51 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, something like this would work (> is water flow direction, # is solid wall)
00:42:53 <Vorpal> XXXXXX
00:42:53 <Vorpal> > X
00:42:53 <Vorpal> > X
00:42:53 <Vorpal> > X
00:42:53 <Vorpal> XXXXXX
00:42:54 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `X'
00:42:54 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `X'
00:42:54 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `X'
00:42:59 <Vorpal> err X is solid wall
00:43:05 <CakeProphet> oh.
00:43:08 <CakeProphet> where is the... space.
00:43:19 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, in the corners
00:43:51 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, there are god damn illustrations at http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Pressure#Diagonal_Flow
00:43:55 <Vorpal> why didn't you look there
00:43:57 <CakeProphet> ah so the width is irrelevant?
00:44:01 <CakeProphet> Vorpal: I did
00:44:04 <CakeProphet> I don't understand the diagram.
00:44:06 <CakeProphet> it looks to me
00:44:10 <CakeProphet> that there is a diagonally wall
00:44:13 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, anyway it would need to be 2 wide I guess
00:44:18 <CakeProphet> that would just block everything.
00:44:32 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, there is. But it doesn't block water. Water can flow diagonally
00:44:41 <CakeProphet> .....ooooooooooooh.
00:44:44 <CakeProphet> I see.
00:44:52 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, same as iirc dwarves can go diagonally. Unless I'm confusing it with nethack
00:45:17 <CakeProphet> also it recommends using one more diagonal than the width of the channel
00:45:23 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, anyway the graphics on screen is only a representation of a complex FSA.
00:45:24 <CakeProphet> I wonder how that works. I guess I just widen it at that segment.
00:45:49 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, it is just that water flows quite slowly through a not very wide one
00:46:01 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, so using a 3 wide like in the picture is faster
00:46:16 <Vorpal> an 1 wide one is going to take bloody ages
00:48:59 -!- augur has joined.
00:49:09 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, maybe you looked at the image but you didn't read
00:49:11 <Vorpal> "Liquids moving via pressure can only move to orthogonally adjacent tiles. When faced with a diagonal gap, pressure will fail to move the liquid, forcing the liquid to instead spread out. By forcing fluids through a diagonal connection you can prevent pressure from propagating past a certain point. "
00:49:14 <CakeProphet> shift+prntscr doesn't seem to create a dialog. does it just copypaste?
00:49:30 <CakeProphet> no I read it I just uh, wasn't understanding it.
00:49:44 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, for me it does the dialogue and just takes the current window
00:49:47 <Vorpal> but I'm using xfce
00:49:51 <CakeProphet> I thought it meant if water moved diagonally it magically stopped having pressure, which I'm pretty sure it says.
00:49:52 <Vorpal> maybe it is different in gnome
00:50:03 <CakeProphet> but I was misunderstanding how water flows diagonally.
00:50:16 <Vorpal> I thought it meant if water moved diagonally it magically stopped having pressure, which I'm pretty sure it says. <-- yep
00:50:26 <CakeProphet> ah it's meta
00:50:29 <CakeProphet> not shift for me
00:50:49 <Vorpal> okay
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00:51:10 <CakeProphet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/BecauseSomePeopleAreJerks.png
00:51:13 <CakeProphet> so then like this I believe.
00:51:40 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, anyway with wider than the current corridor it means that the corridor should widen at the point of the diagonal and then go back to the less wide version after
00:51:55 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, but yes that should work, slightly slow though
00:52:00 <CakeProphet> I'm using this as a well so I really think 3-wide is already overkill.
00:52:22 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, remember to have >=2 deep at the point of the well or you will get dirty water
00:52:28 <Vorpal> which cause an unhappy thought
00:52:32 <elliott> CakeProphet: your window buttons are on the wrong side
00:52:48 <Vorpal> elliott, not at all!
00:52:50 <CakeProphet> elliott: incorrect.
00:53:01 <elliott> CakeProphet: you shouldn't have window decorations in the first place
00:53:04 <CakeProphet> protip: people like different UI configurations.
00:53:07 <elliott> also, your DF window is the wrong size
00:53:10 <elliott> and you smell funny
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00:53:14 <Vorpal> they are the wrong colours though
00:53:25 <Vorpal> come on, orange button on dark grey
00:53:37 <Vorpal> naff
00:54:02 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, also you have a combat report to read says df. And a sparring report.
00:54:02 <CakeProphet> I think it looks nice.
00:54:06 <Vorpal> or more than one
00:54:09 <Vorpal> of each
00:54:12 <Vorpal> or just of one of them
00:54:23 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, the C and the R on the left side that is
00:54:32 <Vorpal> indicates combat and sparring reports to read
00:54:54 <CakeProphet> moment of truth. time to dig into my cistern.
00:55:35 <CakeProphet> actually wait I'll make a floodgate first.:P
00:55:41 <Vorpal> yeah good idea
00:55:51 <CakeProphet> though I already have everything closed by doors
00:55:58 <CakeProphet> I just won't be able to fix it if I mess it up.
00:56:22 <Vorpal> flood gates are good
00:57:31 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, anyway, above-ground fort made out of moulded obsidian is better
00:58:59 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, with underground tunnels to archer towers
01:00:28 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, oh and you should play Kobold Camp
01:01:40 <Vorpal> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70558.0
01:03:49 <CakeProphet> .......oh fuck.
01:03:56 <CakeProphet> so my best swordsman / milita captain
01:04:03 <CakeProphet> is tantrumming now.
01:04:04 <CakeProphet> and he has
01:04:11 <CakeProphet> a steel long sword.
01:04:15 <CakeProphet> like the only one.
01:04:19 <CakeProphet> everyone else has copper stuff.
01:04:51 <CakeProphet> so in the exact same instant that he started tantruming, someone else died. :P
01:05:36 <Vorpal> ouch
01:05:43 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, you need happier dwarves
01:05:59 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, masterwork engravings in the dining hall
01:06:15 <CakeProphet> well I had some
01:06:18 <CakeProphet> not all were masterwork I think.
01:06:22 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, adamantine statutes
01:06:30 <CakeProphet> ...yeah okay
01:06:33 <Vorpal> you can't go wrong with masterwork adamantine statutes
01:06:34 <CakeProphet> is gold good enough
01:06:37 <Vorpal> sure
01:06:43 <CakeProphet> because I already have plenty of those.
01:06:45 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, my dwarves party all the time it seems
01:06:52 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, nice bedrooms
01:07:01 <Vorpal> 6 hour days
01:07:10 <Vorpal> lots of food and booze
01:07:24 <Vorpal> (drop the 6 hour day one)
01:07:45 <Vorpal> (you would end up like Greece)
01:09:37 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
01:14:15 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
01:30:49 <Vorpal> seems like parts of IIS runs in the NT kernel
01:30:51 <Vorpal> how weird
02:01:00 <CakeProphet> awww yeah I have a fishing room
02:01:52 <Vorpal> heh
02:05:51 <Vorpal> night
02:10:07 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
02:16:38 <CakeProphet> artifact... mechanism?
02:27:55 <CakeProphet> conveniently enough.
02:27:59 <CakeProphet> danger rooms are excellent baby killers.
02:28:08 <elliott> use doors, idiot
02:28:11 * elliott helpful
02:36:30 <CakeProphet> no killing babies is good.
02:36:58 <elliott> you could just use a popcap
02:37:17 <CakeProphet> uh what is that.
02:56:07 <CakeProphet> for fucks sake.
02:56:15 <CakeProphet> I turn off everything
02:56:22 <CakeProphet> remove any sort of reason to go outside
02:56:32 <CakeProphet> and then people just wander towards the goblin siegers.
02:56:35 <CakeProphet> I don't understand.
03:02:15 <CakeProphet> uuuuuugh
03:02:42 <elliott> CakeProphet: Did you set up an alert?
03:03:05 <CakeProphet> what would that do?
03:03:53 <CakeProphet> ...oh.
03:03:57 <CakeProphet> I didn't know I could do that.
03:04:18 <elliott> That's...
03:04:23 <elliott> Why your troops keep dying.
03:04:25 <elliott> And your manager.
03:04:27 <elliott> And everyone.
03:07:17 <CakeProphet> wow.
03:07:24 <CakeProphet> so I have like...
03:07:28 <CakeProphet> two ridiculously good soldiers.
03:07:36 <CakeProphet> that just fended off a huge swarm of goblins.
03:08:13 <elliott> that's DRs for you
03:10:49 <CakeProphet> they both went into martial trance.
03:15:23 <CakeProphet> I think this fortress is likely a lost cause, as the sieges will only get worse.
03:15:53 <elliott> no they won't
03:15:57 <elliott> they go away after a few
03:15:59 <elliott> that's the point of a siege
03:16:02 <elliott> even one, sometimes
03:16:19 <CakeProphet> er, I mean
03:16:20 <CakeProphet> future sieges
03:16:30 <elliott> they won't
03:16:31 <elliott> if you win
03:16:52 <CakeProphet> wow these master things.
03:16:56 <CakeProphet> are very sturdy.
03:17:29 <CakeProphet> mooseheaded dudes.
03:17:32 <CakeProphet> with poison spit or something.
03:17:49 <CakeProphet> I think this is the king of the goblins?
03:17:55 <CakeProphet> so if I kill him they might leave me alone?
03:18:05 <elliott> what
03:18:30 <CakeProphet> the master of the goblins is some kind of moose thing.
03:18:40 <CakeProphet> yep that's him
03:18:50 <CakeProphet> Lomoth Gogoltacnu Sath Ura -- master/Moose Demon Administrator
03:19:37 <elliott> uh
03:19:38 <elliott> what
03:19:57 <elliott> that uh
03:19:58 <elliott> what
03:20:03 <elliott> do you have any mods
03:20:03 <CakeProphet> that is the leader of the goblin civilization near me.
03:20:05 <CakeProphet> no.
03:20:10 <elliott> no that
03:20:13 <elliott> isn't a thing that happens
03:20:15 <elliott> you must be mistaken
03:20:22 <CakeProphet> I haven't done anything extra to this game...
03:20:37 <CakeProphet> I'm not entirely sure I can kill this thing.
03:20:48 <CakeProphet> pretty much every body part he has is either cut open, broken, or gone.
03:20:50 <CakeProphet> but he's still alive.
03:20:54 <elliott> did you pierce hell dude
03:20:57 <elliott> that's what demons are
03:20:59 <CakeProphet> no.
03:21:06 <elliott> adamantine
03:21:09 <elliott> do you have any adamantine
03:21:11 <CakeProphet> no.
03:21:15 <elliott> screenshot
03:21:30 <CakeProphet> I lost track of him one sec
03:21:54 <CakeProphet> uh what kind of screenshot do you want?
03:21:59 <CakeProphet> he's a purple ampersand...
03:22:02 <CakeProphet> lol
03:22:24 <elliott> view him
03:22:26 <elliott> and screenshot the whole thing
03:23:21 <CakeProphet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot-Dwarf%20Fortress.png
03:23:23 <CakeProphet> I'm fucked aren't I? :P
03:23:30 <CakeProphet> my military is almost gone.
03:23:36 <CakeProphet> but no he is definitely the leader of the goblin civilization
03:23:40 <CakeProphet> shows up in the civilization menu thing.
03:23:57 <elliott> dude
03:24:02 <elliott> mooses don't lead civilisations
03:24:08 <elliott> maybe it just has the same name
03:24:09 <CakeProphet> THIS ONE DOES DUDE
03:24:09 <elliott> also
03:24:11 <elliott> sting???
03:24:15 <elliott> this thing is definitely a demon
03:24:16 <elliott> I
03:24:20 <elliott> CakeProphet: save the game and quit
03:24:25 <elliott> the baygames people need to look at this
03:24:29 <elliott> ok wait
03:25:10 <CakeProphet> maybe they allow things like this on purpose?
03:25:14 <elliott> CakeProphet: wait a sec, wait a sec
03:25:18 <CakeProphet> paused.
03:26:24 <CakeProphet> he did some kind of knockback thing
03:26:29 <CakeProphet> that killed my best swordsdwarf.
03:26:40 <elliott> CakeProphet: irc.newnet.net
03:26:51 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Quit: Changing server).
03:26:54 <elliott> ...
03:26:55 <elliott> idiot
03:27:38 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
03:31:02 <elliott> CakeProphet: ..
03:31:05 <elliott> s/../.../
03:31:52 <elliott> CakeProphet: have you figured out how to use your client
03:32:27 <CakeProphet> yes.
03:32:32 <CakeProphet> it's not my fault irssi is weird.
03:32:33 <elliott> CakeProphet: #bay12games on that server
03:32:46 <elliott> ask them wtf is going on, provide screenshots of civilisation tab and http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot-Dwarf%20Fortress.png
03:33:57 <CakeProphet> Snamoz Osnung, "The Hatred of Rhyming"
03:34:05 <CakeProphet> obviously they do not like that my dwarves are excellent freestylers.
03:34:12 <CakeProphet> and have decided to attack me
03:34:15 <CakeProphet> with their moose demon adminstrator.
03:34:25 <CakeProphet> (administrator of pain)
03:35:06 <elliott> you could be sitting on a valuable glitch, stop messing around and ask :p
03:37:16 <CakeProphet> 23:35 < adam> Are moose demons supposed to be leaders of goblin civilizations?
03:37:16 <CakeProphet> 23:36 < adam> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot-Dwarf%20Fortress.png
03:37:16 <CakeProphet> 23:36 < adam> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/CivTab.png
03:37:16 <CakeProphet> 23:36 -!- Archi [~Archi@NewNet-492A2BF0.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout]
03:37:19 <CakeProphet> 23:36 < FFLaguna> Sure
03:37:24 <CakeProphet> good answer.
03:38:21 <elliott> CakeProphet: ask them why it's on your map :P
03:39:29 <CakeProphet> elliott: apparently it's completely intentionally
03:39:30 <CakeProphet> not a glitch.
03:39:38 <elliott> wow :P
03:39:42 <elliott> i don't even know what a moose demon _is_
03:39:46 <elliott> I guess
03:39:48 <elliott> it's one of the hell demons
03:39:53 <elliott> because they are all like that
03:39:54 <elliott> but
03:39:55 <elliott> still
03:39:56 <elliott> jee
03:39:56 <elliott> z
03:41:46 <CakeProphet> a moose demon is a moose demon dude.
03:41:47 <CakeProphet> he spits poison
03:41:52 <CakeProphet> but yeah demons are random gen
03:42:23 <CakeProphet> dude this battle is taking forever.
03:43:27 <CakeProphet> lol he has a crown made of elf nails.
03:43:35 <CakeProphet> and an elf hair bracelet.
03:44:29 <elliott> who doesn't
03:45:26 <CakeProphet> perhaps I should release my 12 badger cages.
03:45:30 <CakeProphet> (note: this is a bad idea)
03:45:54 <CakeProphet> elliott: but it really does make sense that a bunch of goblins would come under the influence of a demon.
03:45:59 <elliott> a moose demon.
03:46:01 <CakeProphet> just not quite sure how he got out of hell.
03:46:03 <CakeProphet> yes, moose demon.
03:46:29 <CakeProphet> I actually noticed that earlier
03:46:37 <CakeProphet> when I saw "moose demon administrator" I thought it was just a weird title.
03:46:40 <CakeProphet> for some goblin dude.
03:46:43 <CakeProphet> nope. actual moose demon.
03:46:56 <CakeProphet> dude if I kill this guy, maybe...
03:47:00 <CakeProphet> there will be no more goblin sieges?
03:47:10 <CakeProphet> (probably not going to kill this guy)
03:47:15 <CakeProphet> all of my good soldiers are dead
03:47:23 <CakeProphet> I'm just conscripting civilizations at this point.
03:47:50 <elliott> CakeProphet: yeah uh
03:47:52 <elliott> you can't kill a demon
03:47:56 <elliott> not without a really good military
03:47:56 <elliott> just
03:47:58 <elliott> leave it alone and hope it leaves
03:48:11 <CakeProphet> uh......
03:48:12 <CakeProphet> how do I...
03:48:14 <CakeProphet> do that.
03:48:33 <CakeProphet> disband my military completely?
03:48:40 <CakeProphet> I don't think it will leave.
03:48:46 <bd_> wall it off
03:48:46 <elliott> just
03:48:47 <elliott> where is it
03:48:58 <bd_> demons will break down doors but they won't break down constructed walls
03:49:11 <bd_> so you can wall off and survive trapped underground
03:49:22 <bd_> with some luck the traders will be able to kill it off when they come by next
03:49:37 <elliott> bd_: you should play rosyarrow if ngevd ever finishes his turn
03:49:42 <bd_> rosyarrow?
03:49:45 <elliott> we're planning a large-scale invasion of hell
03:49:51 <elliott> and then walling off its edges
03:49:51 <bd_> oh dear
03:49:56 <elliott> and putting the traders there
03:50:00 <elliott> surrounded by demon cages
03:50:04 <elliott> that is also how we will kill the elves
03:50:15 <bd_> I thought I read somewhere that the hell dimension... shifts?
03:50:17 <elliott> other fun stuff: it's literally on the coast; over half the overground map is sea
03:50:35 <elliott> and our well is permanently salty due to a bug
03:50:46 <bd_> fixable with a pump, I'd think?
03:50:51 <elliott> nope
03:50:53 <elliott> every tile below sea level
03:50:56 <elliott> becomes salty
03:51:00 <elliott> water tile, that is
03:51:01 <elliott> no matter what
03:51:04 <bd_> ... oh.
03:51:10 <bd_> ... but above sea level is fine, right?
03:51:10 <elliott> dfhack added support to fix it when we found that out
03:51:13 <elliott> but we haven't ran it yet :p
03:51:14 <elliott> bd_: yeah
03:51:16 <elliott> but
03:51:18 <elliott> above sea level
03:51:21 <elliott> like i said
03:51:28 <elliott> like two thirds+ of the map is water
03:51:44 <bd_> is there a thread summarizing what's happened so far before I commit to managing some kind of cursed hellhole? >.>
03:51:55 <elliott> yeah it's called our irc logs
03:51:59 <bd_> heh
03:52:03 <elliott> but ngevd's turn has lasted like
03:52:04 <bd_> haven't been idling here that long :)
03:52:05 <elliott> a real-world month so far
03:52:07 <elliott> because he's useless
03:52:12 <elliott> bd_: actually, of another channel :p
03:52:35 <bd_> also, note, I'm more of the trapping-nobels persuasion than the DF military persuasion. never quite figured out how to get those damn dwarves to actually train. or maybe it was buggy in the last version that I tried <.<
03:52:35 <elliott> ...anyway, I'd rather we avoided using cave-ins on the demons... which is a rather unpopular position...
03:52:43 <elliott> because i want to trap as many as possible :p
03:52:44 <bd_> what about magma traps?
03:52:47 <bd_> oh
03:52:49 <elliott> bd_: we've been dangerrooming indiscriminately
03:52:54 <bd_> what about cave-in cage traps?
03:52:59 <elliott> cave-in cage traps?
03:53:04 <elliott> the plan was to use a GCS to web them
03:53:09 <elliott> so that they fall into cage traps
03:53:11 <bd_> dangerrooming?
03:53:18 <elliott> yes we are ultimate cheaters
03:53:33 <bd_> I mean, what is dangerrooming?
03:53:46 <bd_> ... oh
03:53:52 <bd_> right then.
03:54:02 <elliott> heh
03:54:07 <bd_> clever. and sadistic.
03:54:14 <bd_> so totally in line with the usual DF playstyle
03:54:17 <elliott> two of our dwarves killed like ten master goblin soldiers
03:54:19 <elliott> in seconds
03:54:20 <elliott> or was it thirty
03:54:23 <elliott> I think it was thirty
03:54:44 <elliott> oh, and the goblins killed the human traders...
03:54:58 <elliott> it's basically ten disasters piled on top of each other: the fortress
03:55:58 <bd_> what channel have you been playing this in?
03:56:10 <bd_> ... also, do I know you from somewhere other than here? <.<;
03:56:44 <CakeProphet> he seems to have stopped moving.
03:56:51 <CakeProphet> perhaps I've hurt him enough to make that possible.
03:57:08 <bd_> CakeProphet: check his stats?
03:57:09 <elliott> CakeProphet: he's just tired
03:57:21 <elliott> give him some rest, he's earned it
03:57:22 <CakeProphet> in any case it's an excellent opportunity o wall him in.
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03:58:24 <CakeProphet> do demons like...
03:58:26 <CakeProphet> heal rapidly?
03:58:56 <CakeProphet> yeah some of his wounds have turned into scars.
03:59:53 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
04:01:19 <bd_> CakeProphet: Can he fly? because if not this is a great time to start channeling out all but one tile of support for a 10 z-level column directly above him...
04:01:40 <CakeProphet> no he can't fly.
04:01:42 <CakeProphet> he's a moose, duh.
04:02:41 <CakeProphet> lol tantrum time.
04:02:53 <bd_> What Fun!
04:04:08 <CakeProphet> could I perhaps drown him?
04:04:34 <bd_> CakeProphet: if you're going to do that make sure to take proper precautions in case he can swim and breathe underwater
04:05:05 <elliott> precautions are boring
04:05:19 <CakeProphet> I'm great are precautions.
04:05:24 <CakeProphet> my water system is boss
04:05:48 <CakeProphet> so yeah my jail has turned into a demon holding area.
04:06:24 <bd_> next: create an arena for elf-demon battles
04:06:26 <elliott> good jail
04:06:32 <Sgeo|web_> CakeProphet elliott tswett (not you) PH isn't here: 100%
04:07:23 <CakeProphet> eh I was going to drown him in the hopes that the goblins would leave me alone now;
04:07:30 <CakeProphet> so I can "prosper"
04:10:29 <CakeProphet> what makes something pale"
04:10:31 <CakeProphet> ?
04:10:42 <CakeProphet> does being a demon make you pale?
04:11:59 <elliott> that's dying, I think
04:12:01 <elliott> http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010_Talk:Wound#Pale
04:13:09 <CakeProphet> ah so he is near death then.
04:13:29 <CakeProphet> but being a demon he might just heal? I don't know how that works.
04:17:54 <CakeProphet> migrants yessssss
04:18:51 <elliott> how many dorfs
04:19:39 <CakeProphet> I had 39 before now.
04:21:01 <elliott> oh
04:21:02 <elliott> young fortress
04:21:24 <CakeProphet> er, no
04:21:31 <elliott> why haven't you been getting migrants
04:21:33 <CakeProphet> max population was 90-something.
04:21:38 <elliott> oh
04:21:38 <elliott> deaths
04:21:41 <CakeProphet> yep
04:22:02 <CakeProphet> my tomb is pretty impressive. :P
04:22:22 <oerjan> rule of tomb
04:22:52 <elliott> oerjan: you haven't added the parenthical yet >:)
04:23:06 <oerjan> ...you haven't reloaded properly.
04:23:21 <elliott> oh, dearn
04:23:22 <elliott> darn
04:23:25 <elliott> oerjan: it should be at the top, not the bottom
04:23:32 <elliott> to keep the page in chronological order
04:23:35 <elliott> (reverse)
04:23:45 <oerjan> @_@
04:23:50 <elliott> and to avoid "editing" existing material (the space between the note and the heading)
04:24:52 <oerjan> i think i shall keep it this way just to drive you crazy.
04:24:58 <elliott> oerjan: I'll tell zzo.
04:25:05 <elliott> You don't want that.
04:25:22 * oerjan has ops
04:25:58 <shachaf> How does zzo work, exactly?
04:26:03 <elliott> shachaf: well.
04:26:12 <elliott> oerjan: You couldn't ban zzo You wouldn't.
04:26:15 <elliott> s/zzo/zzo./
04:26:30 <oerjan> you are probably right about that.
04:26:38 * shachaf hasn't quite figured the whole topic out.
04:26:55 <oerjan> it would somehow disturb the fragile remains of order in the universe.
04:26:59 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep.
04:27:15 <elliott> shachaf: What topic?
04:27:25 <shachaf> zzo
04:27:46 <elliott> shachaf: Just accept it.
04:28:06 <shachaf> I suppose that's the way to go.
04:28:29 * shachaf is at airport with free WiFi.
04:28:30 <shachaf> The wonders of modern technology.
04:29:07 <shachaf> Also, ~8 Mbps download/upload. Way faster than what I have at home.
04:29:25 <elliott> shachaf: Is it in... uh...
04:29:32 <elliott> Who's on UTC right now?
04:29:47 <shachaf> The server my IRC client runs on, it would seem.
04:30:10 <elliott> Darn.
04:30:17 <oerjan> iceland, maybe?
04:30:20 <shachaf> (I'm flying SJC->JFK.)
04:30:34 <oerjan> or do they have dst
04:31:00 <Sgeo|web_> Why would zzo be banned?
04:31:08 <oerjan> Sgeo|web_: beats me
04:31:17 <elliott> ah yes, iceland are on utc right now
04:31:22 <elliott> perhaps, always
04:31:28 <elliott> Time zoneGMT (UTC+0)
04:31:28 <elliott> - Summer (DST)not observed (UTC)
04:31:32 <oerjan> elliott somehow deduced it as the plausible conclusion
04:31:37 <elliott> shachaf: Iceland airport, right?
04:31:44 <elliott> oerjan: banning me wouldn't stop zzo. :)
04:31:52 <elliott> now fix it
04:31:53 <oerjan> ...darn
04:32:02 <shachaf> What is the thing being fixed?
04:32:16 <oerjan> elliott: i'll just claim the page has a retrograde movement
04:32:24 <elliott> oerjan: but then you need to move all the content to the top
04:32:37 <oerjan> no no, only _new_ content is affected
04:32:50 <elliott> you are bad person
04:33:03 * oerjan wonders if elliott got the pun
04:33:06 <elliott> pikhq_: huh: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory
04:33:16 <elliott> oerjan: no i'm actually an idiot, sorry to mislead
04:33:19 <elliott> <oerjan> you didn't mislead
04:34:05 <oerjan> shachaf: http://oerjan.nvg.org/agora-horoscope/
04:34:16 <oerjan> unless i mistyped it
04:34:19 <elliott> nope
04:34:59 <oerjan> well to be precise it has already been fixed, but some elliotts remain unsatisfied
04:35:10 <elliott> many elliotts
04:35:33 <oerjan> well you, and possibly facekicker, since he's evil
04:37:16 <elliott> brb; i expect COMPLETE FIXES when i return
04:37:22 <elliott> or i will demand my money back.
04:37:40 <oerjan> scary.
04:39:15 <Sgeo|web_> retrograde is an astrology term
04:39:31 <oerjan> DING DING
04:40:04 * Sgeo|web_ had a book on astrology when he was young
04:40:11 <Sgeo|web_> The Complete Idiot's Guide to Astrology
04:40:13 <pikhq_> elliott: It's not exactly a Debian-unique thing.
04:40:32 <pikhq_> It's probably going to be in the FHS in the near future.
04:40:55 <Sgeo|web_> I forget what nodes are, though. North and south pole related?
04:41:18 <oerjan> i'm not sure i ever knew
04:42:00 <Sgeo|web_> "More specifically, the Moon's nodes are the points where the Moon's orbit intersect the plane of the ecliptic."
04:42:04 <Sgeo|web_> http://cafeastrology.com/northnodesouthnode.html
04:42:34 <Sgeo|web_> There's a North Node and a South Node
04:42:44 <oerjan> ah
04:44:51 <Sgeo|web_> Why is there only one node in that chart?
04:47:32 <zzo38> Sgeo|web_: Usually only the North Node is specified because the South Node is opposite to it by definition. The lunar nodes can be used to predict eclipses.
04:47:42 <zzo38> (See the Wikipedia article about lunar nodes)
04:50:01 <zzo38> Do you know anything about balanced Eulerian tournament digraphs?
04:52:59 <Sgeo|web_> No
04:56:16 <CakeProphet> Little do demons know that though their claws and fire cannot pierce the adamantine sealing them away, a simple copper pick can dig right through it with ease. Armok forbid these unholy creatures ever get their hands on one.
04:56:48 <zzo38> Do you understand the lunar nodes now? I didn't know what it was either until I looked on Wikipedia, so I know how it related to solar and lunar eclipses, and so on. That astrology article doesn't help much, unless you want to know what they represent in interpretations.
05:01:35 <oerjan> yeah
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05:05:15 <zzo38> However, that astrology stuff did describe something I could not find on Wikipedia, which is what Vertex is. It is as follows: "The Vertex is a point located in the western hemisphere of a chart (the right-hand side) that represents the intersection of the ecliptic and the prime vertical."
05:13:54 <CakeProphet> http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/File:Champions.png
05:14:05 <CakeProphet> best screenshot.
05:17:00 <elliott> CakeProphet: that's from the twodee version
05:17:14 <elliott> i yhink
05:17:16 <elliott> dunno
05:18:09 <zzo38> It also describes the Sun/Moon midpoint, which is half way between Sun and Moon. But there are two. You could choose the closer one, I suppose, but then how do you know what to choose during a full moon? Or you could choose a direction (such as clockwise from the Sun, or whatever). It is circular! It is modulus arithmetic!
05:19:47 <zzo38> The calcuation it describes there seems to do it such that the arc between the Sun and Moon where the midpoint is calculated on does not pass the 0 degree mark, but that does not seem best way to me.
05:21:26 <zzo38> (It describes converting to/from zodiac format; I prefer to work directly in degrees, which is fortunate that Astrolog includes such a feature! Astrolog can display the angles in hours/minutes format as well if you want to, or zodiac format, or degrees format.)
05:21:56 <CakeProphet> elliott: I wonder if it's possible to make a fortress that's entirely self-sustainable, requiring no surface work.
05:22:03 <CakeProphet> then you could seal yourself off from everything.
05:22:16 <bd_> CakeProphet: Sure. You just need to breach an underground cave to get tower-cap growths
05:22:34 <elliott> bd_++
05:22:38 <bd_> assuming you don't need to trade, you can then grow food and logs underground
05:22:42 <elliott> that's rosyarrow's plan
05:23:02 <elliott> we also have fishing access
05:23:15 * CakeProphet has an underground fishing room.
05:23:32 <CakeProphet> basically I just built it directly above my cistern.
05:23:43 <CakeProphet> and made evenly spaced channels above it.
05:24:03 <CakeProphet> because my cistern tends to accumulate fish.
05:28:46 <CakeProphet> a rail system would be cool.
05:28:58 <CakeProphet> no clue how it would work.
05:29:18 <bd_> CakeProphet: Think of the micromanagement possibilities! You could spend real-world _days_ just figuring out the train schedules!
05:31:36 <CakeProphet> you could, for example, have archers locked in their own little archer tower rooms, with a rail system that constantly supplies them with food/drink/ammo :P
05:31:55 <CakeProphet> so they can overlook your magma-moated castle walls.
05:31:57 <bd_> but first I think DF needs better stocks routing support
05:32:01 <bd_> 'take from' isn't quite good enough
05:32:34 <bd_> I want to be able to say stockpile #7 should always have between 3-6 prepared meals, and these should be taken from any of stockpiles #10, #12, or #14, dammit :|
05:33:50 <CakeProphet> how about
05:33:54 <CakeProphet> instead of castle walls
05:34:03 <CakeProphet> you just have a huge wall of ballistae
05:34:35 <CakeProphet> each operated by a dorf.
05:36:52 <zzo38> Which angle display format do *you* prefer??
05:56:48 <elliott> another interesting feature of rosyarrow i forgot to mention
05:56:50 <elliott> to avoid tantrum spirals
05:56:57 <elliott> there are no meeting rooms or dining halls
06:02:00 <CakeProphet> how does that work.
06:03:01 <CakeProphet> I thought dining halls helped keep dwarves happy.
06:03:20 <elliott> Who cares.
06:03:25 <elliott> We have booze, that's enough.
06:03:30 <elliott> The important thing is that they don't make friends.
06:03:36 <elliott> It has been a rousing success so far.
06:04:50 <CakeProphet> I suppose you could just make really nice bedrooms
06:05:04 <CakeProphet> I'm considering designing my new living quarters with gold furniture.
06:05:15 <CakeProphet> though... I should probably focus on just rebuilding right now.
06:07:01 <elliott> CakeProphet: our bedrooms are standard
06:09:56 <CakeProphet> http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/File:Dwarven_Housing.png
06:10:01 <CakeProphet> I was wondering what the dollar sign is.
06:10:31 <CakeProphet> and why they have armor stands..
06:21:11 <elliott> in memorial of death 0000-9999, rest in peace
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06:47:55 <Madoka-Kaname> CakeProphet, coins.
06:47:57 <Madoka-Kaname> I think.
06:48:16 <Madoka-Kaname> Loose items belonging to the bedroom owner probs
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06:55:01 <Ngevd> Hello!
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06:58:00 <CakeProphet> Madoka-Kaname: ah
06:58:02 <CakeProphet> The monarch's entourage consists of a group of dwarves with Legendary +5 skill in a random weapon (but no skill in Fighter}, Accomplished Dodger, Shield User, and Armor User, and that enter play with the "doesn't really care about anything anymore" trait.
06:58:11 <zzo38> Do you know if it is possible to tell the type of a solar eclipse from a horoscope, or only that there is one?
06:58:12 <CakeProphet> Madoka-Kaname: this is a good trait for members of an elite death squad to have right?
06:58:37 <CakeProphet> zzo38: I know absolutely nothing about astrology or astronomy for that matter.
06:58:49 <Madoka-Kaname> I dunno.
06:58:56 <Madoka-Kaname> I'm not familiar with DF military
06:59:06 <CakeProphet> ..how?
06:59:13 <Ngevd> And I call limonite lemonade
06:59:50 <zzo38> CakeProphet: Even if you know only one, you probably wouldn't know. I don't know if people knowing both know. I know some, but you would have to know a lot about astronomy and a few things about astrology to know the answer to this, I would think.
07:01:04 <zzo38> I don't know the answer either; although I have gotten eclipse data and input them into Astrolog to see if I could notice anything that might show the type of the eclipse, and I did not find anything, so I don't know.
07:01:26 <CakeProphet> zzo38: ...why?
07:01:43 <CakeProphet> I mean, why do you keep doing astronomy stuff.
07:01:47 <Ngevd> The curiosity of the human(?) mind
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07:02:03 <zzo38> Yes, due to curiosity, I suppose.
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08:50:10 <zzo38> I have an idea for a game where a horoscope for the current time and location is used as the game board, updating in real time. Pieces placed on it are moved by the players according to your choices, as well as by cards you can pick up. You can also have timers (possibly the pieces themselves can be timers to limit your time!). It might seem like those kind of made up games with rules depending on whether it is Tuesday and that kind of strange
08:54:25 <zzo38> How many other games are there whose rules depend on the phase of the moon?
08:54:39 <Ngevd> Probably more than zero
08:55:31 <zzo38> Possibly, but do you know of any?
08:55:37 <Ngevd> No
08:55:50 <Ngevd> Some hypothetical nomics, but other than that...
09:05:18 <zzo38> Hypothetical nomics?
09:05:40 <Ngevd> It is possible for in a game of Nomic to introduce rules that depend on the phase of the moon
09:05:49 <Ngevd> I do not know if any such Nomic has occured
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09:09:45 <zzo38> I didn't mean nomic games, though; I meant a board game, with rules, like how chess or backgammon or whatever.
09:10:00 <zzo38> And/or with cards, like rummy, poker, and Double Fanucci.
09:10:03 <Ngevd> I don't think so
09:13:56 <Madoka-Kaname> I wonder if it's possible to make a ruleset where some rules cannot be changed without introducing logical inconsistancy.
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09:22:22 <zzo38> For what categories do there exist functors from that category to a cancelling digraph category?
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10:12:04 <Ngevd> Hello!
10:12:35 <CakeProphet> hey
10:14:57 <Ngevd> In the hall of the mountain king: music to play Dwarf Fortress to
10:28:54 <Ngevd> Ceilidh is a weird word
10:30:02 <Ngevd> It has a silent dh
10:30:42 <Ngevd> I may make an esolang called K-Li
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11:59:41 <Ngevd> Argand diagrams are annoying
12:01:55 <nooga> Brogue
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12:24:54 <nooga> i like how roguelikes are annoying
12:25:06 <nooga> and you die every 10 minutes
12:49:52 <nooga> fdeipafhip$#HR#PI$HTPIHp jellies
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13:02:43 <nooga> aargh
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13:46:42 <nooga> ffffuuuuu
14:06:23 <nooga> ffffuuuuu
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14:33:31 <Ngevd> Can anyone recommend a screen recorder for Minecraft?
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16:16:07 <Vorpal> Ngevd, which OS?
16:16:31 <Ngevd> Ubuntu 11.04
16:16:38 <Vorpal> so *nix, right
16:16:38 <Vorpal> hm
16:17:22 <Vorpal> Ngevd, screen recording programs that I know of: vlc (!), recordmydesktop, xvidcap
16:17:30 <Vorpal> never tried any of them for minecraft
16:17:41 <Vorpal> only used xvidcap myself, and not on opengl stuff
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17:15:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god my KNEES
17:23:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what happened?
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17:23:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, a 3-hour car journey happened.
17:24:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I don't see how that would hurt your knees?
17:24:20 <elliott> Is Ireland even that big
17:24:23 <Phantom_Hoover> With insufficient legroom.
17:24:32 <Vorpal> oh okay
17:24:33 <Phantom_Hoover> You are Swedish, you must understand the pain!
17:24:42 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ask the person in front of you to move their char forwards?
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17:24:49 <Vorpal> or move your own chair backwards
17:24:54 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that should solve it
17:24:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Not like elliott, his legs are probably like this long: | |
17:25:17 <elliott> More like | |.
17:25:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well, I avoid small cars.
17:25:26 <Phantom_Hoover> More like ||.
17:25:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, whenever possible
17:25:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, it's not a small car!
17:25:50 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, then just ask the guy in front of you to move his damn chair forwards
17:25:55 <Vorpal> err seat
17:25:57 <Vorpal> not chair
17:25:59 <monqy> 1 2 / 12 / 21 / 2 1
17:26:10 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, no?
17:26:41 <Phantom_Hoover> monqy, wha?
17:26:44 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, no?
17:26:57 <monqy> leg length, with endpoints numbered so it makes sense
17:27:14 <monqy> each line separated by a /, rather than actually being individual lines
17:28:15 <Vorpal> ...?
17:38:04 <Vorpal> elliott, come on
17:38:20 <elliott> Vorpal: OK fine.
17:38:27 <elliott> But if we see you with any elves you're dying with them.
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17:42:49 <elliott> fizzie: The reverse-context tree associations to add for the five-gram [a b c d e] are /→a, /→b, /→c, /→d, /→e, /a→b, /b→c, /c→d, /d→e, /b/a→c, /c/b→d, /d/c→e, /c/b/a→d, /d/c/b→e, /d/c/b/a→e, right?
17:48:10 <fizzie> Looks sensible. I suppose the frequencies of the shorter-context values will not be entirely the same that you would get by taking them from the original text (due to the overlapping, and the filtering), but there's not much you can do about that.
17:49:00 <elliott> fizzie: Right. Just making sure that I hadn't gotten anything massively wrong.
17:49:59 <elliott> fizzie: Specifically because I'm hand-writing the list. :p
17:50:21 <elliott> I suppose I should probably generate it with lambdabot or something.
17:50:25 <elliott> > inits [a,b,c,d,e]
17:50:25 <lambdabot> [[],[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[a,b,c,d],[a,b,c,d,e]]
17:50:33 <elliott> Nope, that's not it.
17:50:47 <elliott> I guess I want all ordered sublists.
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17:51:04 <ais523> > tails [a,b,c,d,e]
17:51:05 <lambdabot> [[a,b,c,d,e],[b,c,d,e],[c,d,e],[d,e],[e],[]]
17:51:18 <ais523> > (tails >>= inits) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:51:19 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a] -> b'
17:51:19 <lambdabot> against inferred type `[[[a...
17:51:26 <ais523> not quite right
17:51:35 <ais523> :t tails
17:51:36 <lambdabot> forall a. [a] -> [[a]]
17:51:38 <ais523> :t inits
17:51:39 <elliott> > tails [a,b,c,d,e] >>= inits
17:51:39 <lambdabot> forall a. [a] -> [[a]]
17:51:40 <lambdabot> [[],[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[a,b,c,d],[a,b,c,d,e],[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],...
17:51:44 <ais523> elliott: that's it
17:51:48 <elliott> hmm
17:52:04 <elliott> > [ (init xs, last xs) | xs <- tails [a,b,c,d,e] >>= inits ]
17:52:05 <lambdabot> [(*Exception: Prelude.init: empty list
17:52:07 <elliott> gah
17:52:11 <elliott> > [ (init xs, last xs) | xs <- tails [a,b,c,d,e] >>= inits, not (null xs) ]
17:52:11 <lambdabot> [([],a),([a],b),([a,b],c),([a,b,c],d),([a,b,c,d],e),([],b),([b],c),([b,c],d...
17:52:13 <ais523> so what is the composition version of >>=?
17:52:16 <elliott> ais523: >=>
17:52:27 <ais523> :t >=>
17:52:28 <lambdabot> parse error on input `>=>'
17:52:31 <ais523> :t (>=>)
17:52:32 <lambdabot> forall a (m :: * -> *) b c. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
17:52:37 <ais523> :t (>>=)
17:52:38 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
17:52:51 <ais523> :t tails >=> inits
17:52:51 <lambdabot> forall a. [a] -> [[a]]
17:52:55 <ais523> yep, seems right
17:53:44 <elliott> ok, now I need one that filters out ones where any element of the list is ""...
17:53:50 <elliott> except that it'll only be the tail
17:53:51 <elliott> hmm
17:53:58 <elliott> so it's like
17:54:08 <elliott> [ pretend it's a one-gram ] ++
17:54:14 <elliott> [ pretend it's a two-gram | as long as b isn't "" ] ++
17:54:22 <elliott> [ pretend it's a three-gram | as long as c isn't ""] ++
17:54:22 <elliott> etc.
17:54:25 <elliott> ugh
17:54:29 <ais523> > ((tail tails) >=> inits) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:54:30 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
17:54:30 <lambdabot> against inferred type `[a1] -> [...
17:54:36 <ais523> > ((tail . tails) >=> inits) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:54:37 <lambdabot> [[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],[],[c],[c,d],[c,d,e],[],[d],[d,e],[],[e],[]]
17:54:45 <ais523> > ((tails . tail) >=> inits) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:54:47 <lambdabot> [[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],[],[c],[c,d],[c,d,e],[],[d],[d,e],[],[e],[]]
17:54:52 <ais523> ???
17:55:05 <elliott> ais523: what's surprising?
17:55:05 <ais523> > (tails >=> (inits . tail)) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:55:07 <lambdabot> [[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],[],[c],[c,d],[c,d,e],[],[d],[d,e],[],[e],[]...
17:55:15 <ais523> > (tails >=> (tail . inits)) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:55:16 <lambdabot> [[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[a,b,c,d],[a,b,c,d,e],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],[c],[c...
17:55:19 <ais523> elliott: I didn't expect the results to be the same
17:55:25 <ais523> there we go, anyway
17:55:32 <ais523> I still don't get why the three incorrect ones are the same
17:55:37 <ais523> > (tails >=> (tail . inits)) [a,b,c]
17:55:39 <lambdabot> [[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[b],[b,c],[c]]
17:55:53 <elliott> :t all
17:55:54 <lambdabot> forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool
17:55:59 <Madoka-Kaname> :t >->
17:56:00 <lambdabot> parse error on input `>->'
17:56:04 <Madoka-Kaname> :t >=>
17:56:04 <elliott> ctxgrams :: N a -> [([a],a)]
17:56:04 <elliott> ctxgrams (N a b c d e) =
17:56:04 <elliott> [ (init xs, last xs)
17:56:04 <elliott> | xs <- tails [a, b, c, d, e] >>= inits
17:56:04 <elliott> , not (null xs)
17:56:05 <elliott> , all (not . B.null) xs
17:56:06 <lambdabot> parse error on input `>=>'
17:56:07 <elliott> ]
17:56:08 <Madoka-Kaname> :t (>=>)
17:56:09 <elliott> kind of gross
17:56:10 <lambdabot> forall a (m :: * -> *) b c. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
17:56:11 <elliott> but oh well
17:56:13 <elliott> and slow probably
17:56:16 <elliott> but I can optimise it later
17:57:03 <Madoka-Kaname> >=> = map g (f a)?
17:57:18 <tiffany> �S�Ntrollface.jpg.gz
17:57:22 <elliott> ...
17:57:25 <Madoka-Kaname> @src (>=>)
17:57:25 <lambdabot> Source not found. I've seen penguins that can type better than that.
17:57:27 <tiffany> ^ that is a trollface.jpg gzipped 9001 times
17:57:44 <Madoka-Kaname> Nyan?
17:57:45 <Madoka-Kaname> o.o
17:57:55 <tiffany> aw
17:57:58 <tiffany> apparently it's corrupted
17:58:01 <monqy> good
17:58:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Goodness, who would have guessed?
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17:58:30 <Madoka-Kaname> :t \f g a -> flatten $ map g $ f a
17:58:32 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Tree a' against inferred type `[b]'
17:58:32 <lambdabot> In the second argument of `($)', namely `map g $ f a'
17:58:32 <lambdabot> In the expression: flatten $ map g $ f a
17:58:39 <Madoka-Kaname> @hoogle m m a -> ma
17:58:40 <Madoka-Kaname> @hoogle m m a -> m a
17:58:41 <lambdabot> Prelude uncurry :: (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c
17:58:41 <lambdabot> Data.Tuple uncurry :: (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c
17:58:41 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.ST runST :: ST s a -> a
17:58:42 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative unwrapMonad :: WrappedMonad m a -> m a
17:58:42 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Base.RegexLike getAllMatches :: AllMatches f b -> f b
17:58:43 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Base.RegexLike getAllSubmatches :: AllSubmatches f b -> f b
17:58:51 <elliott> oh wait
17:58:53 <elliott> i can't even
17:58:53 <elliott> lmao
17:58:56 <elliott> do the not . B.null thing
17:58:58 <elliott> because these are interned
17:59:06 <elliott> I need to make sure 0 = null string
17:59:28 <tiffany> gzip -c trollface.jpg > trollface.jpg.gz; for i in $(seq 1 9000); do gzip -c trollface.jpg.gz > trollface.jpg.gz; echo $i; done
17:59:30 <tiffany> ~
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17:59:56 <elliott> tiffany: why
18:00:02 <tiffany> because :o
18:00:13 <elliott> btw
18:00:15 <elliott> you don't know how > works
18:00:24 <tiffany> what?
18:00:30 <fizzie> The redirection will wipe the file before gzip starts reading it.
18:00:34 <tiffany> oh
18:00:38 <tiffany> that explains why it's corrupted >_>
18:00:58 <elliott> it's also corrupted because it is a horrible idea and unix will not let you do something so stupid
18:01:23 <fizzie> Just add 9000 .gz's in the name, it's more proper that way and you get to keep the intermediate copies.
18:01:28 <fizzie> .jpg.gz, the best format.
18:01:37 <Phantom_Hoover> .jpgz
18:01:37 <Madoka-Kaname> :t \f g a -> join $ map g $ f a
18:01:38 <lambdabot> forall t a a1. (t -> [a1]) -> (a1 -> [a]) -> t -> [a]
18:01:46 <Madoka-Kaname> :t join
18:01:47 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
18:01:50 <Madoka-Kaname> :t map
18:01:51 <lambdabot> forall a b. (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
18:01:58 <elliott> ^@^A!^A'^BIt^CThe^Dsame^BAs^Aa^Fresult^A"^FForget^Dthat^DGood^Dland^BHe^Fseemed^CLet^Cher^EMadam^AO^COui^A.^GPerhaps^Cthe^FPraise^EQuite
18:01:58 <elliott> impossible^Ddead^Csun^DThen^Chow^BTo^Dfind^CWhy^Gstrange^A(^CAnd^BPP^A)^EThose^A-^Cand^AI^AA^Ecurly^Cman^Bof^DAmen^Bhe^Cshe^Cput^Hgovernor^Equeen^Dthey^Ebegan^Cyet^Ethere
18:02:00 <Madoka-Kaname> @hoogle (a -> b) -> m a -> m b
18:02:01 <lambdabot> Data.Traversable fmapDefault :: Traversable t => (a -> b) -> t a -> t b
18:02:01 <lambdabot> Prelude fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
18:02:01 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative (<$>) :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
18:02:10 <elliott> it the same as a result forget that good land he seemed let her madam o oui.
18:02:29 <elliott> perhaps the praise quite impossible dead sun then how to find why strange (and) those - and I a curly man of men he she put governor queen they began yet there
18:02:40 <elliott> this is better than actually doing anything markov, just reading the intern table :P
18:02:43 <tiffany> na na na recompressing
18:03:27 <monqy> na
18:03:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Hey Jude?
18:03:40 <elliott> Note to self: FIFTEEN
18:03:51 <Madoka-Kaname> :t \f g a -> ap (return f . g) (return a)
18:03:53 <lambdabot> forall a b a1 (m :: * -> *). (Functor m, Monad m) => (a -> b) -> m a1 -> a -> m b
18:04:21 <Madoka-Kaname> :t \f g a -> ap (return $ f . g) (return a)
18:04:22 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b a1. (Monad m) => (a -> b) -> (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> m b
18:04:27 <elliott> fizzie: Heh, an awful lot of these only get me 10 instead of fifteen.
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18:44:35 <elliott> > tails [a,b,c,d,e] >>= inits
18:44:36 <lambdabot> [[],[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[a,b,c,d],[a,b,c,d,e],[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],...
18:44:41 <elliott> oh, duh
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19:09:38 <elliott> I am fully utilising Haskell's strengths in this program, which is why I'm using a ByteString instead of any data structures.
19:13:28 <pumpkin> elliott: that can be done in either order
19:13:40 <elliott> pumpkin: ?
19:13:41 <pumpkin> > (tails <=< inits) [1..5]
19:13:42 <lambdabot> [[],[1],[],[1,2],[2],[],[1,2,3],[2,3],[3],[],[1,2,3,4],[2,3,4],[3,4],[4],[]...
19:13:46 <elliott> indeed
19:13:51 <pumpkin> > (inits <=< tails) [1..5]
19:13:52 <lambdabot> [[],[1],[1,2],[1,2,3],[1,2,3,4],[1,2,3,4,5],[],[2],[2,3],[2,3,4],[2,3,4,5],...
19:13:52 <elliott> I don't think it matters much here, though
19:13:59 <pumpkin> one works on infinite lists
19:14:16 <Ngevd> BUT WHICH ONE!
19:14:27 <pumpkin> you seen the awesomeness of
19:14:27 <pumpkin> > liftA2 (=<<) zip (tail . tails) $ [1..5]
19:14:29 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5),(1,3),(2,4),(3,5),(1,4),(2,5),(1,5)]
19:14:30 <elliott> pumpkin: My list is so finite that I just did the manual graph reduction thing again to cut seconds off my runtime. :p
19:14:37 <elliott> ctxgrams :: N Word32 -> [([Word32], Word32)]
19:14:37 <elliott> ctxgrams (N a b c d e) =
19:14:37 <elliott> filter (\(xs,r) -> all (/= packedEmpty) (r:xs)) $
19:14:37 <elliott> [ ([], a), ([], b), ([], c), ([], d), ([], e)
19:14:37 <elliott> , ([a], b), ([b], c), ([c], d), ([d], e)
19:14:37 <elliott> , ([b, a], c), ([c, b], d), ([d, c], e)
19:14:40 <elliott> , ([c, b, a], d), ([d, c, b], e)
19:14:41 <elliott> , ([d, c, b, a], e)
19:14:43 <elliott> ]
19:14:44 <pumpkin> ah :)
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19:28:26 <elliott> fizzie: Actually, how the heck /am/ I meant to reconstruct e.g. how much to add to the unigram count for "c" given (a,b,c,d,e,999)?
19:28:31 <elliott> I guess I could just add 999.
19:28:34 <elliott> Feels like lying though.
19:28:49 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:29:40 <elliott> Hi oerjan.
19:29:54 <oerjan> good evening elliott
19:34:26 <oerjan> <elliott> The important thing is that they don't make friends.
19:34:43 <oerjan> you seem to be outdoing huxley and orwell here
19:35:02 <oerjan> good show!
19:35:05 <elliott> oerjan: Did Oceania ever colonise Hell?
19:35:08 <elliott> I think not.
19:35:35 <Ngevd> Eastasia did
19:35:35 <oerjan> well you haven't succeeded _yet_
19:35:44 <Ngevd> I mean Eurasia
19:35:46 <oerjan> or did you
19:35:48 <fizzie> elliott: Well, yes, it's a bit tricky. For the text corpus of only "a b c d e" it would be right; for a full model of "a b c d e f g h i" you'd (discounting the "edge effects") count each unigram 5 times ('e' is in "a b c d e", "b c d e f", .., "e f g h i"), but it doesn't really matter since it's just the relative frequencies that are important; with the filtering, it's anyone's guess; maybe just add 999.
19:35:49 <Ngevd> Why did I say Eastasia?
19:35:58 <Ngevd> Eastasia has never colonised hell
19:36:07 <oerjan> Ngevd: you didn't say eastasia. you always said eurasia.
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19:36:14 <Ngevd> So I did
19:36:20 <elliott> fizzie: Right. Adding 999 will be "morally correct" in some way, surely?
19:36:38 <elliott> fizzie: I mean, I'm sure you can construct some sort of statistical argument that in the average case it approaches being the most accurate you can get blah blah blah.
19:36:39 <elliott> I hope.
19:36:40 <elliott> Please?
19:37:14 <fizzie> It's certainly better than just adding 1, and a constant factor doesn't really matter a thing, so there's not so much you could do there. I'm sure with the correct assumptions it goes more or less right in some sense.
19:37:22 <elliott> Yes good.
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19:41:06 <oerjan> @tell zzo38 <zzo38> Do you know if it is possible to tell the type of a solar eclipse from a horoscope, or only that there is one? <-- i'd assume it'd be most complete when it's exactly on the node?
19:41:06 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
19:41:31 <elliott> Why is vim so damn slow at opening large files?
19:42:46 <Vorpal> elliott, is emacs any faster? If not: your disk bw probably
19:43:03 <Vorpal> or it might load the entire file into a data structure optimised for smaller files
19:43:04 <elliott> How to get Vorpal to say the word "emacs": say the word "vim".
19:43:22 <Vorpal> elliott, no I'm trying to help you figure out the cause
19:43:33 <elliott> It's only ninety megs, so it's not my disk.
19:43:38 <Vorpal> hm
19:43:48 <Vorpal> elliott, well, is another editor such as emacs, nano, or whatever faster?
19:43:56 -!- zzo38 has joined.
19:44:33 <elliott> emacs -Q goes faster; M-> takes ages, so it's probably trying to avoid loading all the file into RAM.
19:44:46 <elliott> Which is counterproductive in this case, because whatever it's doing is taking ages just to go to the end of the file, and I have 90 megs of ram
19:44:54 <elliott> At least vim is fast once it loads up
19:45:11 <elliott> Except now it's actually not, heh
19:45:44 <Vorpal> elliott, ed?
19:45:56 <elliott> Vorpal: Loads near-instantly.
19:46:08 <elliott> Uses ~no RAM.
19:46:14 <elliott> ais523: I like how every other problem I run into in computing is blimping.
19:46:15 <Vorpal> elliott, and the editing at the end?
19:46:23 <elliott> Vorpal: Don't feel like figuring out how to do that.
19:46:28 <Vorpal> fair enough
19:46:38 <Vorpal> elliott, blimping?
19:46:42 <elliott> Blimping.
19:46:45 <Vorpal> meaning?
19:46:53 <elliott> What the UL→C compiler has to do to de-nest.
19:47:00 <elliott> It's turning a nested structure into pointers.
19:47:09 <Vorpal> elliott, unlambda->C?
19:47:15 <elliott> Underload.
19:47:17 <Vorpal> ah okay
19:48:35 <oerjan> blimping and zipperlins
19:48:51 <Vorpal> I knew you were going to do a joke along those lines
19:49:02 <Vorpal> zzo38, I think you have messages from lambdabot
19:49:46 <oerjan> Vorpal knows all
19:49:54 <Vorpal> yes
19:50:37 <zzo38> O, yes, you are correct.
19:50:41 <Vorpal> oerjan, In other words, I'm omniscient
19:51:19 <Ngevd> Therefore you are a rock
19:51:20 <zzo38> oerjan: OK, I suppose so. But there are total, annular, partial, hybrid, eclipses.
19:51:31 <elliott> `quote omnipotent
19:51:38 <HackEgo> 105) <Warrigal> I seem to think of coaxial cables as being omnipotent somehow. \ 338) <lament> elliott: well what i would do if i were omniscient and omnipotent would be to create an immortal woman with perfect tits and bang her for the rest of eternity \ 482) <itidus20> to assume that someone can be described by a rule without
19:51:46 <elliott> `quote 482
19:51:48 <HackEgo> 482) <itidus20> to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent <oklopol> for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception
19:51:50 <Vorpal> `quote omniscient
19:51:52 <HackEgo> 338) <lament> elliott: well what i would do if i were omniscient and omnipotent would be to create an immortal woman with perfect tits and bang her for the rest of eternity
19:51:56 <elliott> `quote
19:51:57 <elliott> `quote
19:51:57 <elliott> `quote
19:51:58 <elliott> `quote
19:51:58 <elliott> `quote
19:52:02 <HackEgo> 672) <monqy> never ever do bacon floats or i will hunt you down and kill you augh my leg
19:52:04 <HackEgo> 424) <oklofok> what would you ever need petrol for <oklofok> newsflash: it doesn't actually taste that good
19:52:05 <oerjan> zzo38: oh the annular thing would depend on the moon's distance would it, i don't think that can be deduced
19:52:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Why would you need to be omniscient to do that?
19:52:17 <HackEgo> 202) <fizzie> I don't trust ducks. They always look like they're planning something. I'm not sure it's a good idea to give them language capabilities.
19:52:17 <HackEgo> 305) <oklopol> okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG"
19:52:17 <HackEgo> 570) <monqy> this reminds me of a time where this guy made up a pretend language that was in his fantasy world and then roleplayed as someone from his fantasy world who used the language and then tried to talk to me about the language
19:52:23 <Ngevd> Phantom_Hoover, it can't hurt
19:52:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Ngevd, what would you know?
19:53:02 <Ngevd> All I know is that this is all I know
19:53:21 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what a "perfect tit" was? You would know that if omniscient.
19:53:56 <Ngevd> elliott, 672
19:54:06 <Vorpal> `quote 672
19:54:08 <HackEgo> 672) <monqy> never ever do bacon floats or i will hunt you down and kill you augh my leg
19:54:09 <elliott> no no that one's funny because of augh my leg
19:54:15 <elliott> let's just do it again
19:54:16 <elliott> `quote
19:54:17 <elliott> `quote
19:54:17 <elliott> `quote
19:54:17 <elliott> `quote
19:54:18 <elliott> `quote
19:54:22 <HackEgo> 305) <oklopol> okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG"
19:54:24 <HackEgo> 561) <Phantom_Hoover> On further reflection, I think I did manage to miss winter and spring altogether. <Phantom_Hoover> This does explain the goblin siege I had in autumn.
19:54:26 <HackEgo> 452) <d1ffe7e45e interpreter> The interpreter uses an unbounded tape size, but due to technical limitations will stop being unbounded if the tap size reaches 2^63 cells.
19:54:32 <HackEgo> 82) <Eeyore> I used to have salt licks for my horses. They would make cool abstract sculptures with them.
19:54:33 <HackEgo> 323) <catseye> wow, thinkgeek really makes me hate being alive
19:54:52 <Vorpal> I like 452
19:54:57 <Ngevd> Same
19:55:03 <elliott> Hmph, those are all pretty good.
19:55:07 <elliott> 82 and 305 are probably the worst.
19:55:14 <Vorpal> elliott, why remove any one?
19:55:14 <Ngevd> This technique is working, then
19:55:14 <elliott> But the qdb doesn't seem to want me to delete anything.
19:56:20 <Ngevd> I've had a significantly better idea for a fungot style!
19:56:21 <fungot> Ngevd: belarius. look, what was indifferent too, yet somewhat doubtful, might i not then be answer'd? du. anthonio and old shylocke, both stand forth
19:56:34 <Ngevd> bash.org
19:56:35 <Vorpal> ^style
19:56:35 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss* wp youtube
19:56:41 <Vorpal> ^style ss
19:56:41 <fungot> Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings)
19:56:42 <Vorpal> ah
19:56:51 <Vorpal> ^style sms
19:56:51 <fungot> Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20)
19:56:55 <Vorpal> fungot, hm?
19:56:55 <fungot> Vorpal: ten also c
19:57:00 <Vorpal> fungot, okay?
19:57:00 <fungot> Vorpal: hey i am in extreme situations: first- before getting it... second- after loosing it." luke.. today i am in cbe only. but have to seek. hee
19:57:06 <Ngevd> fungot, what's the answer?
19:57:07 <fungot> Ngevd: tell me ya confirm time later. she's in for a sec
19:57:15 <zzo38> oerjan: I think Astrolog does have a mode that displays distances too.
19:57:16 <Vorpal> fungot, in what?
19:57:17 <fungot> Vorpal: a sweet friend for the dog to? why nv reply me de. pls:-)
19:57:23 <fizzie> fungot: More abbrvs, pls.
19:57:24 <fungot> fizzie: thank u. please try to sleep. i am tired of travel. ask someone to check sagamu for the same. wana plan a trip to ily at 6pm. tablesbooked already. im cabbing down so take pictures up on facebook. you are one step out from my hse one leh. why cannot go jc also
19:57:27 <zzo38> Although the horoscope itself does not include them.
19:57:32 <Vorpal> ^style
19:57:32 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms* speeches ss wp youtube
19:57:36 <Vorpal> ^style pa
19:57:36 <fungot> Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics)
19:57:43 <Ngevd> fungot, what?
19:57:44 <fungot> Ngevd: ducks don't have any friends, so i'll have to play it?
19:57:52 <Vorpal> ^style c64
19:57:52 <fungot> Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material)
19:57:55 <Vorpal> fungot, ooh
19:57:56 <fungot> Vorpal: each gosub call places five bytes to the chrget routine will turn it on your computer would be unterlined in our listings. for now, this pointer may be shown behind sprite graphics
19:58:06 <Vorpal> fungot, nice
19:58:06 <fungot> Vorpal: there is no exception, and to load the x and y registers. y is a special type of user definable character which is the frequency of 1,022,730 hz ( 985,250 if you hold down the shift keys is being pressed.
19:58:11 <fizzie> "unterlined".
19:58:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, must have been a typo in the original. In at least 2 places
19:58:39 <Vorpal> fungot, but "this pointer may be shown behind sprite graphics", you mean like on the display?
19:58:39 <fungot> Vorpal: the function, 31, 35, 374 clrchn, 272-273, 275 chkout, 272-273, 280 ciout, 272-273, 278-279 chr function, 31, 38, 56, 61, 79, 87, 89 basic numeric functions will be executed automatically by printing the second
19:58:56 <Vorpal> fungot, is that the index?
19:58:57 <fungot> Vorpal: filt 1 ( 53265, 53266
19:59:00 <elliott> process :: PackedNgram -> RCT -> RCT
19:59:00 <elliott> process (PackedNgram xs n) rct = foldl' (flip process') rct (ctxgrams xs)
19:59:00 <elliott> where process' (ys, r) = at ys $ \(RCT paths grams) -> RCT paths (HM.insertWith (+) r n grams)
19:59:00 <elliott> at [] f m = f m
19:59:00 <elliott> at (p:ps) f (RCT paths grams) = RCT (HM.adjust (at ps f) p $ HM.insertWith (flip const) p (RCT HM.empty HM.empty) paths) grams
19:59:06 <fizzie> There are quite a lot of tables in that stuff.
19:59:20 <Vorpal> hm okay
19:59:59 <Ngevd> ^style wp
20:00:00 <fungot> Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
20:00:10 <Ngevd> fungot, how're you?
20:00:12 <fungot> Ngevd: now it catches the fnord of senses does not define a political structure, there can be no valid criticisms of atheism are based on the fact that chandragupta belonged to mauryas who were asuras? is this some peculiar formatting error or some ongoing tradition? i am not a pole is not an ascii character available from keyboard ( though it is understood. and so an article on latin, and is yet further evidence that the entir
20:01:17 <fizzie> Ngevd: Here's the article list: http://p.zem.fi/w9q7
20:01:32 <fizzie> (Somewhat mangled; reconstructed it from file names.)
20:02:15 <Ngevd> ^style agora
20:02:16 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
20:02:25 <Ngevd> fungot, how does this one sound like?
20:02:26 <fungot> Ngevd: in addition to any other player's voting potential
20:02:36 <Ngevd> fungot, how about now?
20:02:37 <fungot> Ngevd: let there be a member of more than 100 rules, past judgement, the
20:03:29 <Ngevd> ^style alice
20:03:29 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
20:03:36 <Ngevd> fungot!!!
20:03:37 <fungot> Ngevd: " could you come to-day?"
20:03:38 <oerjan> <zzo38> I have an idea for a game where a horoscope for the current time and location is used as the game board, updating in real time. Pieces placed on it are moved by the players according to your choices, as well as by cards you can pick up. You can also have timers (possibly the pieces themselves can be timers to limit your time!). It might seem like those kind of made up games with rules depending on whether it is Tuesday and that kind of strange
20:04:12 <oerjan> that seems like it would be slow to change; everything but the houses and maybe the moon wouldn't change perceptibly in a day
20:04:26 <oerjan> iirc
20:04:46 <Ngevd> Could work for postal games
20:04:49 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes; but what if it is play by mail?
20:04:51 <oerjan> and even those would take hours
20:05:04 <oerjan> then maybe it could work better
20:05:07 <zzo38> There are still time limits, but you can have many weeks.
20:05:08 <Ngevd> Mail nomic: longest game?
20:06:12 <zzo38> Any game is long by mail
20:06:29 <elliott> Ngevd: agora could practically be played by mail
20:06:36 <elliott> without changing the rules
20:06:38 <zzo38> Monopoly sometimes takes a long time, so it would be very long by mail.
20:07:08 <zzo38> Even Dungeons&Dragons could be played by mail if the referee rolls all the dice
20:08:42 <Vorpal> chess has been played by mail
20:08:52 <zzo38> Yes, chess is played by mail a lot.
20:09:00 <zzo38> I have played chess by mail.
20:10:30 <fizzie> VGA Planets by snailmail.
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20:10:51 <oerjan> it could be interesting if played by mail as you still might want to time your messages carefully to get the right horoscope for your move
20:10:54 <elliott> mario by mail
20:11:01 <fizzie> You print out hexdumps of the turn files, and in the other end the other person types it in.
20:11:07 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, that is the kind of things I was thinking about!
20:11:33 <elliott> quake II by mail
20:11:58 <fizzie> Dance Dance Revolution by mail.
20:12:13 <fizzie> You need good stamina to stay on the pad for the snailmail round-trip.
20:12:22 <zzo38> And also the reason for time limits on your move.
20:13:00 <elliott> irc by mail
20:13:10 <elliott> kilgame by mail
20:13:35 <oerjan> <zzo38> For what categories do there exist functors from that category to a cancelling digraph category?
20:13:56 <oerjan> technically all, as you can always make a functor that sends everything to an object and its identity morphism
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20:14:45 <Vorpal> GTA by mail
20:15:06 <Vorpal> elliott, ooh better idea: mail by mail
20:15:17 <elliott> second life by mail
20:15:24 <Vorpal> elliott, first life by mail
20:15:29 <elliott> mail
20:15:36 <Vorpal> elliott, yeah
20:15:38 <fizzie> Male by mail.
20:15:39 <oerjan> mail by game of life
20:15:45 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, I suppose so. But require certain kind of functors, the one with each morphism and object still separated
20:15:54 <elliott> ser :: RCT -> ([Word32] -> Put, [RCT])
20:15:58 <elliott> the weirdest type signature
20:16:11 <tswett> `quote
20:16:13 <HackEgo> 207) <olsner> DAMN YOU, I'm leaving <Vorpal> olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION!
20:16:14 <Vorpal> :t ser
20:16:15 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `ser'
20:16:23 <Vorpal> elliott, where is ser from?
20:16:50 <Vorpal> I forgot the context for that one
20:16:59 <elliott> nowhere
20:17:14 <oerjan> in which case i don't know what that is
20:17:23 <Vorpal> elliott, what is it for? And what is RCT
20:17:40 <elliott> serialising rct, and reverse-context tree
20:17:46 <elliott> `quote
20:17:46 <elliott> `quote
20:17:47 <elliott> `quote
20:17:47 <elliott> `quote
20:17:48 <elliott> `quote
20:17:49 <HackEgo> 87) <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome.
20:17:54 <HackEgo> 422) <oklopol> so about jacuzzis, do they usually have a way to make it it not heat but freeze the water?
20:17:56 <HackEgo> 61) <Sgeo> What else is there to vim besides editing commands?
20:18:01 <HackEgo> 87) <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome.
20:18:02 <HackEgo> 187) <Vorpal> dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0<a]dsax+[GCD:]Pp' # easier-to-read version
20:18:06 <elliott> need one more
20:18:07 <elliott> `quote
20:18:09 <HackEgo> 493) <NihilistDandy> The Russian's emblem was the hammer and sickle, not the fist and other fist
20:18:10 <Vorpal> 87 is quite bad
20:18:11 <elliott> `delquote 87
20:18:14 <HackEgo> ​*poof*
20:18:26 <Vorpal> <HackEgo> 187) <Vorpal> dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0<a]dsax+[GCD:]Pp' # easier-to-read version <-- what did that do? I forgot.
20:18:33 <Vorpal> and I don't feel like parsing dc atm
20:18:52 <elliott> gcd
20:18:54 <Vorpal> oh GCD
20:18:55 <Vorpal> right
20:19:13 <Vorpal> yeah it makes sense
20:20:00 <oerjan> now it all make sense
20:20:07 <elliott> s/e /es /
20:20:14 <oerjan> argh
20:20:23 <elliott> ?hoogle [(a,b)] -> ([a],[b])
20:20:23 <lambdabot> Prelude unzip :: [(a, b)] -> ([a], [b])
20:20:23 <lambdabot> Data.List unzip :: [(a, b)] -> ([a], [b])
20:20:23 <oerjan> except grammar, grammar bad
20:20:40 <Vorpal> oerjan, yeah the -s in English is annoying
20:21:05 <oerjan> it's not like i _usually_ make that error. i think.
20:21:17 <Vorpal> well yeah
20:22:22 <oerjan> :t uncurry zip . unzip
20:22:23 <lambdabot> forall a b. [(a, b)] -> [(a, b)]
20:23:32 <fizzie> "English -s is annoying" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_verb_conjugation
20:23:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, aieee!
20:24:01 <Vorpal> fizzie, wtf is "passive voice"?
20:24:21 <Vorpal> oh right, found it
20:24:33 <Ngevd> The information was eluded by Vorpal
20:24:41 <Ngevd> No wait
20:24:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, you use suffix for negation
20:24:51 <Vorpal> !?
20:25:36 <coppro> elliott: I take back the bad things I said about statically-sized types in Haskell now that I understand TH
20:25:37 <fizzie> Vorpal: What, no? Look at the first table; there's a word ("ei") for negation.
20:25:42 <oerjan> i distinctly thought they used the verb ei
20:25:47 <fizzie> The negation word gets inflected in place of the verb, those.
20:25:48 <elliott> coppro: I don't see how TH is related, but ok :P
20:25:54 <elliott> I guess it can help automate some things
20:25:56 <coppro> elliott: [nat| 30|]
20:25:57 <Vorpal> fizzie, ah
20:26:03 <elliott> Well, sure
20:26:12 <elliott> coppro: $(nat 30) is nicer
20:26:17 <coppro> elliott: sure
20:26:19 <coppro> either works
20:30:34 <fizzie> Vorpal: But we do have different suffixes for each of {first, second, third} person {singular, plural}. (OTOH at least it's sort of consistent, not just differing in the third person singular like English does it.)
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20:34:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, heh
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20:41:03 <elliott> > scanr (+)
20:41:04 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> [a] -> [a])
20:41:04 <lambdabot> arising from a...
20:41:06 <elliott> > scanr (+) 0 [9,0,9]
20:41:07 <lambdabot> [18,9,9,0]
20:41:15 <elliott> > scanr (\a b -> a + length b) 0 ["a","bc","d"]
20:41:16 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
20:41:16 <lambdabot> against inferred type `GHC.Types...
20:41:19 <elliott> > scanl (\a b -> a + length b) 0 ["a","bc","d"]
20:41:19 <lambdabot> [0,1,3,4]
20:42:54 <oerjan> > liftA2 (=<<) zip (tail . tails . cycle) $ [1..5]
20:42:56 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5),(5,1),(1,3),(2,4),(3,5),(4,1),(5,2),(1,4),(2,5),(3...
20:43:49 <oerjan> hm wait
20:43:55 <oerjan> > length $ liftA2 (=<<) zip (tail . tails . cycle) $ [1..5]
20:43:58 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
20:44:01 <oerjan> not good
20:45:49 <oerjan> > scanr ((+).length) 0 ["a","bc","d"]
20:45:51 <lambdabot> [4,3,1,0]
20:49:50 <elliott> Yikes, my serialisation strategy is _really slow_.
20:49:52 <elliott> Easily takes two minutes.
20:50:11 <oerjan> a serial time killer
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21:09:19 <elliott> oerjan: you should help me optimise my code :D :D :D :D :D
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21:10:54 <oerjan> elliott: i dunno anything about optimization, although i _did_ wonder if there was some fold or something for your at function above
21:11:02 <elliott> oerjan: which function?
21:11:07 <elliott> the inits tails one?
21:11:25 <oerjan> "at"
21:11:32 <oerjan> a local definition
21:11:42 <elliott> ah
21:11:56 <elliott> oerjan: that one is regrettably ugly because hashmap has no alter
21:11:57 <elliott> for some reason
21:12:07 <elliott> thus the (HM.adjust (at ps f) p $ HM.insertWith (flip const) p (RCT HM.empty HM.empty) paths)
21:12:15 <elliott> the (flip const) keeps the original value if not there
21:12:21 <elliott> so that insertWith basically gives it a default value
21:12:35 <elliott> but yeah that isn't actually the slow bit her
21:12:36 <elliott> e
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21:28:35 <Vorpal> elliott, ...
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21:48:40 <oerjan> regarding current iwc poll: it seems that knitted caps (tuques) count as hats in english?
21:51:15 <oerjan> i cannot answer the poll without knowing that, since i don't wear any other kind...
21:51:44 <Ngevd> Lets ask our resident hat expert, Gregor
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21:58:29 <oerjan> oh of course
21:58:56 * oerjan whistles innocently
22:00:09 <oerjan> i don't recall his collection having knitted caps though, he might be biased for style reasons
22:03:09 <oerjan> wait idle for 1 days 4 hours
22:03:19 <oerjan> SOMEONE ELSE PLEASE
22:03:28 <olsner> hmm, hats? we're talking about hats?
22:03:43 <oerjan> yes, but i think i need a native english speaker for this
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22:04:29 <oerjan> since my confusion is partially from how they are _not_ "hatter" in norwegian, imho
22:05:43 <olsner> I think lots of more stuff is "hats" in english, since we differentiate between hattar and mössor
22:06:02 <olsner> but exactly which ones, you will need a native speaker for that :)
22:06:29 <oerjan> precisely
22:06:43 <oerjan> (hatter og luer in norwegian)
22:08:31 <oerjan> "In other parts of the English-speaking world, this type of hat is more commonly referred to by other names: knit hat or knit cap, sock cap or stocking cap, watch cap, skull cap or skully, snow hat, snow cap, ski cap, tossle cap, woolly hat, chook or beanie."
22:11:08 <Gregor> Knitted caps are hats.
22:11:15 <oerjan> ok
22:11:26 <oerjan> thank you
22:12:02 <oerjan> the wikipedia headgear article only confused me more, by using hat _both_ as a specific and a general term
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22:17:04 <oerjan> yay the number 17 won the previous poll
22:17:14 * oerjan feels the geek vibe
22:17:19 <zzo38> I have another idea of new commands in Haskell, where proof { } is the same as id, and proof { f; } is a value making its own anonymous class, that is either f or id depending on which one has the correct type (where f is preferred, in case both types are correct). And proof { f; g; } becomes either (g . f) or (g) or (f) or (id) depending on needed type (where (g . f) is preferred, and then (g), etc). And you can have <- and -> usable ins
22:17:22 <oklopol> are we voting on the best prime
22:17:27 <zzo38> And then make it usable with more-notation as well.
22:17:32 <oerjan> oklopol: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cgi-bin/poll.pl?a=7
22:17:43 <oerjan> sorry, but voting's over on that one
22:18:06 <zzo38> So in other words, "proof" is like an anonymous class, I guess.
22:18:27 <oklopol> so in an exam, this guy answered 79 to one of the questions
22:18:28 <zzo38> Where the members of the class are also anonymous.
22:18:33 <oklopol> i mean what the fuck kind of a prime is that >D
22:18:53 <oerjan> a perfectly respectable one
22:19:33 <oerjan> and very easy to check, too
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22:20:11 <oklopol> how so?
22:20:56 <oklopol> i mean how is it simpler than other sub-100's
22:20:58 <oerjan> the last digit 9 rules out 2 and 5. and since the digits are 7 and 9 you easily rule out both 3 and 7 just by looking at the other digit
22:21:23 <oerjan> and also 11 since it's so close to 77
22:21:25 <oklopol> oh i don't know the rule for 7... oh wait
22:21:39 <oklopol> so okay it may be particularly easy
22:22:58 <oklopol> 61 is pretty obvious, it's next-door neighbor is so cute it never had a change of finding anyone
22:24:47 <oerjan> 89 on the other hand
22:25:08 <olsner> looks primey at least
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22:25:18 <oerjan> yes, but so does 91
22:25:30 <oklopol> i see 91 as 70 + 21
22:25:39 <oklopol> then again
22:25:46 <oklopol> i just recalled someone said that on #math
22:25:53 <oklopol> like years ago
22:26:18 <oerjan> 91 is the trickiest one below 100 to check, i think
22:26:29 <oklopol> probably
22:26:31 <oklopol> impossi
22:26:33 <oklopol> ble, even
22:26:55 <oerjan> it fits none of the easy rules
22:27:28 <oklopol> it fits the easy rule of having 7 as a factor
22:27:38 <oklopol> it's very easy to *check*
22:28:19 <oerjan> it's not _difficult_. it's just that division by 7 is harder to check than the other ones below 13
22:29:27 <oerjan> at the same time it's too big to be in the small multiplication table
22:29:29 <oklopol> to me, checking means someone tells you "91 = 70 + 21 so it's not a prime" and you say "good point", which takes a second
22:29:46 <oerjan> ah the P vs. NP sense
22:29:49 <oklopol> yep
22:30:05 <oklopol> but yeah in the other sense, maybe it's hard
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23:32:04 <elliott> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png <Phantom_Hoover> WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED
23:32:07 <HackEgo> 690) <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png <Phantom_Hoover> WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED
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23:47:16 <olsner> so that's dwarf fortress then? looks a bit like befunge code
23:47:31 <elliott> that's overground df
23:47:34 <elliott> underground looks a bit different
23:47:39 <elliott> i.e. most of the map is black
23:47:43 <elliott> rather than trees and shit
23:55:43 <coppro> btw elliott: I am evil: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~scshunt/Data.hs
23:56:12 <elliott> yeah everyone uses TH for everything until they realise how stupid it is
23:56:15 <elliott> same with typeclasses
23:56:18 <coppro> elliott: haha
23:56:49 <elliott> for example what you have there is a complicated situation that can be handled only with a simple parser and reading a file :P
23:56:59 <coppro> I have a simple parser and template haskell instead
23:57:07 <elliott> coppro: btw you almost certainly don't want lastProposal to be :: (Num i) => i
23:57:09 <elliott> for two reasons
23:57:14 <coppro> (unfortunately it's not written in such a way as to allow reuse)
23:57:15 <elliott> (a) "a" not "i"
23:57:19 <elliott> (b) you want that to be monomorphic
23:57:22 <elliott> :: Int or :: Integer probably
23:57:23 <coppro> elliott: I like i
23:57:29 <coppro> and why must it be monomorphic?
23:57:43 <elliott> coppro: (a) that's what everyone says when people try and help them make their code more idiomatic
23:57:50 <elliott> coppro: (b) it doesn't have to be, but it makes no sense to interpret it as a Float
23:57:54 <elliott> or a complex number
23:57:54 <elliott> etc.
23:57:56 <elliott> it's an integer
23:58:02 <elliott> proposal ids are integers
23:58:08 <elliott> technically naturals but there's no Nat oh well
23:58:22 <coppro> elliott: it plays badly with + on an int if I make it an Integer
23:58:35 <coppro> *Int
23:58:39 <elliott> that's not called "playing badly"
23:58:52 <elliott> that's called "Int is not the same as Integer"
23:59:05 <elliott> just put it as :: Int, since it'll take quite a while for the number of proposals to overflow that...
23:59:22 <elliott> btw if you say "let x = lastProposal in (somethingThatExpectsAnInteger x, x + anInt)" it wouldn't work either
23:59:33 <elliott> so making the top level binding polymorphic does not really "fix" it, it just makes you think it's fixed
23:59:36 <coppro> I suppose
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