< 1320537604 796801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there is\
< 1320537606 8912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ewarn(chown("/tmp/home/" WOLUSER_NAME, WOLUSER_UID, WOLUSER_GID));
< 1320537607 496207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a link
< 1320537608 959791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\//
< 1320537888 875266 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: take carezz
< 1320538062 810798 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-98.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320538067 73137 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-153.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320538615 820907 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1320539047 851223 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320539057 559881 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320539267 362458 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320539437 889266 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320539455 350823 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320539636 47620 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320539650 816024 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320539865 78469 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320539877 747992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure?
< 1320539888 667807 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320540217 407975 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320540231 806472 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320540383 801224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320540526 946298 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320540644 47382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/kragen/xcompose/blob/master/dotXCompose
< 1320540649 106459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a nice compose file.
< 1320540699 307866 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320540711 659816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable!
< 1320540778 57008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1320540779 405592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320540865 17245 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320541011 162321 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1320541030 383013 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320541109 605439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the ddate program allow you to switch which kind of Discordian calendar you want?
< 1320541557 74855 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, the full name of the guy who plays bashir is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi
< 1320541634 40382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and his son's name is django
< 1320541690 382153 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320541871 120209 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent a game that requires you to use a realtime horoscope as the game board. Maybe, one player is Summer and one player is Winter. And if you have four players, then there is Spring and Autumn as well. You have to pay attention to the phase of the moon, too. And cards. And of course there need a time limit so that you cannot just wait for many months until the planets favor you.
< 1320542082 597606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320542085 306210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:50:44: <Phantom_Hoover> https://github.com/kragen/xcompose/blob/master/dotXCompose
< 1320542097 828309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided that sucked, IIRC, although I forget why.
< 1320542103 698793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:05:57: <olsner> oh wow, the full name of the guy who plays bashir is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi
< 1320542103 844832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:07:14: <olsner> ... and his son's name is django
< 1320542109 650220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What is it with you and Django :P
< 1320542113 497210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote olsner.*django
< 1320542120 238275 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :324) <olsner> django is named after a person?  <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 379) <cpressey> `quote django  <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named after a person?  <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something  <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 380) <monqy> `quote django  <HackEgo> ​352)
< 1320542127 870962 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not my fault!
< 1320542174 589598 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whose quotation are this:  "Any sufficiently advanced religion is indistinguishable from schizophrenia."  "I just hijacked your brain. You can have it back at the end of this sentence."  "The Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory ate the last cookie!"  "It is better to bless the dark than to waste a candle."
< 1320542249 695902 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's not that life is too short, it's that death is too long."  "If you're not confused, you're ignorant."  "Yoda is programing in Forcetran only."
< 1320542334 958323 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are these quotations?
< 1320542412 491668 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does superstition bring bad luck?
< 1320542652 330301 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: nyu~
< 1320543409 205104 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320543970 766496 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se PART :#esoteric
< 1320543997 543272 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net NICK :myndzi
< 1320544100 430679 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log "a", "b", "c", "aa"
< 1320544124 944467 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-06.txt:01:48:20: <Madoka-Kaname> `log "a", "b", "c", "aa"
< 1320544134 486557 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t replicateM
< 1320544135 396279 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m [a]
< 1320544136 568687 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t permutations
< 1320544137 300663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320544180 565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log "0", "1", "01", "11"
< 1320544192 57835 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-06.txt:01:49:40: <elliott> `log "0", "1", "01", "11"
< 1320544203 978330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320544266 71979 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> map (\i -> permutations $ replicateM i l) [1..]) "01"
< 1320544266 891875 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[["0","1"],["1","0"]],[["00","01","10","11"],["01","00","10","11"],["10","...
< 1320544287 153655 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> map (\i -> replicateM i l) [1..]) "01"
< 1320544288 13725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [["0","1"],["00","01","10","11"],["000","001","010","011","100","101","110"...
< 1320544304 511260 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> map (\i -> replicateM i l) [1..]) "abc"
< 1320544305 251765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [["a","b","c"],["aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc"],["aaa","aab",...
< 1320544311 590661 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> bind (\i -> replicateM i l) [1..]) "abc"
< 1320544312 382307 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: `bind'
< 1320544324 858593 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the kind of logic some people used in the past:  There are seven windows in the head, two nostrils, two ears, two eyes, and a mouth; so in the heavens there are two favorable stars, two unpropitious, two luminaries, and Mercury alone undecided and indifferent. From which and many other similar phenomena of nature such as the seven metals, etc.,
< 1320544328 141093 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> m b) -> m a -> mb
< 1320544328 644568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1320544328 763177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1320544328 815588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>=) :: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
< 1320544338 335015 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> (\i -> replicateM i l =<<) [1..]) "abc"
< 1320544339 96505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  <no location info>: parse error on input `)'
< 1320544341 551177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it were tedious to enumerate, we gather that the number of planets is necessarily seven. [...] Moreover, the satellites are invisible to the naked eye and therefore can have no influence on the earth and therefore would be useless and therefore do not exist.
< 1320544343 619193 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> (\i -> replicateM i l) =<< [1..]) "abc"
< 1320544344 432261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","aac"...
< 1320544356 631723 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\l -> (\i -> replicateM i l) =<< [1..])
< 1320544356 915874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :([1..] >>=) . flip replicateM
< 1320544378 501252 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log replicateM
< 1320544383 361882 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-19.txt:03:09:44: <CakeProphet> :t replicateM
< 1320544386 975443 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log replicateM
< 1320544393 973025 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-08-26.txt:07:10:34: <CakeProphet> > join . join $ (`replicateM` words "son I am proud") =<< [3..]
< 1320544407 492861 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join
< 1320544408 284146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
< 1320544418 387437 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> m b) -> m a -> mb
< 1320544418 872684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1320544418 990184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
< 1320544419 42862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>=) :: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
< 1320544420 315023 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1320544421 494861 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log replicateM
< 1320544426 691499 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-20.txt:05:11:36: <elliott> ?ty replicateM
< 1320544430 723672 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log replicateM
< 1320544435 849368 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-16.txt:07:58:51: <CakeProphet> > drop 6 $ replicateM 3 "012"
< 1320544447 945244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] >>= replicateM
< 1320544448 996272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `[b]'
< 1320544449 114924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inferred type `m a -> m ...
< 1320544454 399916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] >>= flip replicateM "abc"
< 1320544456 250862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ["a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","aac"...
< 1320544458 272300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: hth
< 1320544463 793231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem in the `log query was the spaces
< 1320544472 584480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the use of "abc" as the alphabet, probably
< 1320544480 293337 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1320545865 716696 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Cirno-chan
< 1320545875 868532 :Cirno-chan!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Madoka-Kaname
< 1320546314 608765 :tiffany!~AndChat@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1320546749 712426 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320546757 138165 :SilverShot!~vargas.la@200.108.108.170 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320546758 964433 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-246-153.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320546893 113426 :SilverShot!~vargas.la@200.108.108.170 PART :#esoteric
< 1320546912 987827 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) (join . flatten [1..2])
< 1320546913 822493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Couldn't match expected type `Data.Tree.Tree (m (m a))'
< 1320546913 942101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :        against inf...
< 1320546920 465075 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) (join . cycle [1..3])
< 1320546921 203927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instances for (GHC.Num.Num (m a),
< 1320546921 324247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :                   GHC.Num.Num (m (m a...
< 1320546935 343092 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) (join $ cycle [1, 2])
< 1320546936 16216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a])
< 1320546936 250797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_1212' at <int...
< 1320546965 912695 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) $ join $ cycle [1, 2]
< 1320546966 677638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a])
< 1320546966 796360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_1212' at <int...
< 1320546975 599085 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) $ join $ join $ cycle [1, 2]
< 1320546976 318896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [[a]])
< 1320546976 436257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_1212' at <i...
< 1320546981 315847 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join
< 1320546982 166295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
< 1320546990 904176 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t cycle [1, 2]
< 1320546991 662952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t) => [t]
< 1320546995 413778 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join $ cycle [1, 2]
< 1320546996 159057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [a])
< 1320546996 276659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `e_112' at <inte...
< 1320547000 768828 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle [1, 2]
< 1320547001 572310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,...
< 1320547005 755075 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh woops
< 1320547009 969166 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filter (==2) $ cycle [1, 2]
< 1320547010 782105 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,...
< 1320547768 576375 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle m [x] -> [m x]
< 1320547768 815106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List transpose :: [[a]] -> [[a]]
< 1320547768 929889 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequenceA :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
< 1320547768 982538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List inits :: [a] -> [[a]]
< 1320547954 795499 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM
< 1320547955 677453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b]
< 1320547976 386271 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [IO a] -> IO [a]
< 1320547976 659362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude sequence :: Monad m => [m a] -> m [a]
< 1320547976 776798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad sequence :: Monad m => [m a] -> m [a]
< 1320547976 829390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable sequenceA :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
< 1320548143 586196 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot responds to private messages, too
< 1320548152 578629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Madoka-Kaname knows and doesn't care
< 1320548158 460589 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1320548406 614442 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM
< 1320548407 427096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b]
< 1320548461 438571 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [0..5]
< 1320548462 246443 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,2,3,4,5]
< 1320548491 809747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1320548635 420027 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :urusai!
< 1320548653 859439 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :うるさい
< 1320548813 597132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't difficulty reasoning about space and time efficiency of Haskell programs is really an argument against its use for high performance programs.
< 1320548817 752980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't think
< 1320548885 506038 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Really? I'd think that would be the main argument.
< 1320548927 368434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any compiled implementation of a language that optimizes is going to do possibly non-obvious things once compiled, regardless of evaluation order. But wait! there's more!
< 1320548953 50651 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldl
< 1320548953 862906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a
< 1320548967 648391 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if it really matters you might be using measurements rather than reasoning anyway
< 1320548996 119234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who actually understands Haskells evaluation semantics can reason (and measure as you said) about space/time usage. The same applies to C++.
< 1320549014 82192 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C++ nub isn't going to know shit about how to optimize C++.
< 1320549071 707733 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being ignorant of something is not an argument against it.
< 1320549075 566944 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"given a sufficiently smart programmer"?
< 1320549082 386314 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Map a), (Set a) => a
< 1320549082 502242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error:
< 1320549082 554798 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^
< 1320549082 658216 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (Map a), (Set a) => a
< 1320549082 710718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :         ^
< 1320549084 902067 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Map a) (Set a) => a
< 1320549085 173466 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error:
< 1320549085 289435 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (Map a) (Set a) => a
< 1320549085 342226 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :                  ^
< 1320549104 664363 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ತ_ತ
< 1320549107 929357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname doesn't actually no Haskell.
< 1320549108 180759 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Map a, Set a) => a
< 1320549108 685183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown class Map
< 1320549108 738050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude undefined :: a
< 1320549108 738224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function fix :: (a -> a) -> a
< 1320549114 157306 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: can you quit spamming?
< 1320549116 502741 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't no English.
< 1320549117 884298 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure
< 1320549122 235917 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks!
< 1320549127 450235 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is a good deal more abstracted from how computers tend to work than C++.
< 1320549190 639371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.
< 1320549214 628690 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this was ... news to you?
< 1320549256 990565 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no)
< 1320549268 531709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just kind of bewildered as to what it's implying.
< 1320549283 261946 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers can't reason through abstraction or something?
< 1320549286 310202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs.
< 1320549354 276686 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like garbage collection make performance more difficult to reason about, for instance.
< 1320549360 481893 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone said "impossible".
< 1320549362 797498 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is pretty damn abstracted from how computers tend to work, though.
< 1320549390 737244 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True.
< 1320550525 769210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not sure the machine mismatch matters.
< 1320550550 14383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: As long as your mental conception of Haskell is low-level enough to account for thunks and sharing, then pretty much all the reductions to standard hardware don't change anything except constant factors.
< 1320550607 593830 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constant factors matter when you want to write high-performance programs.
< 1320550717 786616 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "high-performance". :)
< 1320551105 669880 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what context this conversation came up in.
< 1320551131 980651 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll define it as "where you care about performance enough to worry about constant factors". :-)
< 1320551141 345390 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unsafeCoerce
< 1320551154 967532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK, to clarify: Small constant factors :P
< 1320551216 940812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You don't really have to care that much about how GHC goes from the level involving thunks and sharing to the machine code, since it's not going to end up /slower/ than you perceive on that level
< 1320551321 122557 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In such a context anything shy of assembly is going to involve at least a little bit anguish.
< 1320551346 756649 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ shy of assembly//
< 1320551746 472304 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320552145 432823 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a anime crossword in mathNEWS that although the clues are in English, you must write the answers using katakana.
< 1320552564 108061 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't decide if that's lame or awesome
< 1320552620 966721 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: it is mathnews, therefore awesome
< 1320552743 234917 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably lame.
< 1320552811 874772 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how japanese coders name variables in c++
< 1320552844 810852 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully in English.
< 1320552861 220283 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, though. :-(
< 1320553037 813279 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to go with "that's a crapshoot".
< 1320553073 541296 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would like to add that "¥n" still drives me bonkers.
< 1320553116 569653 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh
< 1320553128 243107 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese backslash
< 1320553130 562350 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why
< 1320553143 270339 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's "\n".
< 1320553150 120628 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320553156 816360 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks windows
< 1320553166 931584 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's not even slightly Microsoft's fault.
< 1320553171 755001 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1320553184 266789 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the fault of JIS X 0201.
< 1320553221 333603 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 8-bit ASCII superset encoding that was used for a while on early Japanese computers.
< 1320553227 982349 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda sucks yeah
< 1320553235 276889 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It encoded ¥ where \ is on normal ASCII.
< 1320553241 394486 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have taken one of the 0-31 range characters
< 1320553245 738283 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses those
< 1320553256 68875 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :except tab and newline ofc
< 1320553273 228070 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: The 0-31 range characters are control characters. I sometimes use them for purpose of control characters.
< 1320553426 719578 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320553453 692098 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :figured most people decided in band signaling was stupid and moved to other means
< 1320553473 974265 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, JIS X 0201 sucks in every way imaginable for use in Japanese.
< 1320553817 828279 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you need to include control characters in the data, that is a reason they have a Data Link Escape control character in ASCII.
< 1320554170 183651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: dos used all of the control chars as symbols
< 1320554211 384176 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, cause the char rom had the space
< 1320554230 606274 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and text mode has no escape chars ofc
< 1320554258 486420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes; it is CP437, which used all 256 slots (although 0, 32, and 255 are all blank). Sometimes still used today.
< 1320554296 671616 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However the control characters had meanings as control characters too; but if poked directly into video memory they could be displayed.
< 1320554498 851719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BIOS has the same function today.
< 1320554541 993916 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :vga text mode hasn't changed much no
< 1320554684 964071 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you run FreeDOS, it will work. Linux uses something more complicated so it can display more characters at once and so on.
< 1320554731 53890 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Linux using a VGA text mode pretty much just does ASCII.
< 1320554731 185440 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it's over 512 chars it has to be an emulation yes
< 1320554749 914098 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you only can pull more characters using a framebuffer.
< 1320554764 76698 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the screen grid size is more than 80x25 as well
< 1320554782 773569 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's more VGA text modes than that.
< 1320554808 637702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on the computer at FreeGeek, the ability for the Linux terminal to play sound appears broken, as far as I can tell.
< 1320554814 623502 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't change the hard limit of 256 (or 512 if you use different chars for colors 8-15) :D
< 1320554872 126075 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you used a set of 8x1 pixel characters kinda like a msx text mode game
< 1320554892 161533 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes, I know of that. It is limit 256, but there is a way to use different chars for high intensity. Actually, I discovered that by accident when I was running font programs in strange ways on a DOS computer; only later on have I found proper documentation about how this works.
< 1320555010 245384 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: yeah you can see it used in impulse tracker
< 1320555080 791919 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I discovered it by running multiple programs incorrectly that don't go together. I haven't used Impulse Tracker.
< 1320555248 331009 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to think of how to implement TeX's ligaturing algorithm in Haskell; maybe I should do it on paper since that does seem to help sometimes.
< 1320555324 651043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I have:   typesetSimpleString :: Font -> String -> PageObject; typesetSimpleString f s = Text f $ typesetSimpleChar f s (leftBoundChar f); typesetSimpleChar :: Font -> String -> [LigKern] -> TextString;
< 1320555718 453099 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320555933 581750 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep
< 1320556401 592497 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : In North America although not generally in the United Kingdom, the term seafood applies also to any fresh water life eaten by humans, so all edible aquatic life can be referred to as seafood.
< 1320556408 569017 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, interesting.
< 1320556578 911109 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much, though usually it's limited to fish & shellfish.
< 1320556630 124265 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, I'm familiar with the US usage. I just ate fresh water catfish and I would call it seafood.
< 1320556642 412974 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hadn't ever considered that it wasn't. :P
< 1320556644 622072 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1320556684 204485 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently eating seafood is really fucking good for you.
< 1320556781 829427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vietnamese catfish cannot be legally marketed as catfish in the US, and is subsequently referred to as swai or basa [24] Only fish of the family Ictaluridae may be marketed as catfish in the United States.
< 1320556785 832555 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more weird food laws.
< 1320557657 362491 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320557794 940824 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Fractional -> Intergral
< 1320557795 176927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Unknown type Fractional
< 1320557795 408391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b
< 1320557795 460958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b
< 1320557804 71613 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's Rational
< 1320557804 573858 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp
< 1320558218 856933 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> Double
< 1320558219 208822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a
< 1320558219 369715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a
< 1320558219 422004 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts breakpoint :: a -> a
< 1320558281 237722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: what are you trying to do.
< 1320558288 974298 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, try the actual hoogle site.
< 1320558810 902805 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1320560188 42759 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db401a3.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320560208 864956 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320560337 189053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I wonder why desserts traditionally come at the end of meals?
< 1320560520 10557 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320562349 327090 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320562411 888926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1320562441 688333 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning elliott
< 1320562554 750070 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> Vietnamese catfish cannot be legally marketed as catfish in the US, and is subsequently referred to as swai or basa [24] Only fish of the family Ictaluridae may be marketed as catfish in the United States.
< 1320562568 997419 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when my dad says "kattfisk", he means fish to feed the cat.
< 1320562665 687228 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:58:29: <zzo38> Does the ddate program allow you to switch which kind of Discordian calendar you want?
< 1320562682 256352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does he say that a lot?
< 1320562683 187027 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it, sort of, switch in an unpredictable way...
< 1320562700 183169 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well probably not :P
< 1320562791 65809 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the other point is we don't use that to name any species in norwegian.
< 1320562805 770397 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i'm aware of.
< 1320562938 541016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sea kittens
< 1320562987 104147 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :land fish
< 1320563010 656962 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET YOUR DELICIOUS LAND FISH HERE
< 1320563022 613081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i take it you missed the reference :
< 1320563025 20775 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY RECENTLY DEWHISKERED
< 1320563031 224371 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't think i missed it
< 1320563039 3909 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just reversed it
< 1320563059 98947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :P
< 1320563081 163412 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> DLL
< 1320563082 95271 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Not in scope: data constructor `DLL'
< 1320563207 747663 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i'm not very inventive there
< 1320563214 166820 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'My wife and I have decided to start calling our cats "Land Fish".'
< 1320563310 215525 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh apparently stephen colbert used the phrase
< 1320563372 396116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_fish
< 1320563377 962938 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :first hit for "land fish"
< 1320563416 17486 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i added sea kitten to the search
< 1320563538 956579 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/game.asp
< 1320563793 750505 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I actually just played a seakitten dress up game.
< 1320563916 945196 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon you will be possessed by an irrestible urge to eat nothing but strawberries and seaweed.
< 1320564587 147969 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's face it: if cats looked, tasted, and mostly acted like fish except on land, I'd eat cat. With glee.
< 1320564606 206435 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sea kittens" is solid fail.
< 1320564659 394582 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320564716 184035 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how do you know they don't taste like fish?
< 1320564721 174955 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they taste better?
< 1320564723 3586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm???
< 1320564793 387251 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yawn*
< 1320564794 719858 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320564824 991844 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You'll note taste wasn't the only criterion there.
< 1320564960 241608 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what if cats looked, tastes, and acted like cats and were delicious?
< 1320564964 837722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weoijroiwejrowiejet huh what now huh?
< 1320565098 335207 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyaaaa
< 1320565501 526530 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat
< 1320565510 847268 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this entire article is written by a cat-lover
< 1320565523 9214 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it basically talks about all of their awesome skillz.
< 1320565650 591841 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put on of those not neutral thingies in
< 1320565886 613216 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10**10)**(2**32)
< 1320565887 470340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Infinity
< 1320565894 333782 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (10^10)^(2^32)
< 1320565909 519695 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *E
< 1320565927 833349 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1 `div` 0, 1/0)
< 1320565931 683905 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
< 1320565937 49561 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 `div` 0
< 1320565945 366165 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `div` 0
< 1320565946 398317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: divide by zero
< 1320565951 292984 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 / 0
< 1320565952 39416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Infinity
< 1320566201 429069 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds some vandalism at the end of the Cat article
< 1320566353 258412 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `mod` 0
< 1320566356 851182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  *Exception: divide by zero
< 1320566506 833565 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second 01:00 is the best time of day.
< 1320566799 364697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's only one 01:00 in a day :)
< 1320566821 637110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is special
< 1320566822 963755 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not today.
< 1320566842 931236 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, 01:59 was followed by 01:00.
< 1320566917 645567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. we did that ages ago.
< 1320566935 388866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also: fuck dst
< 1320566943 569061 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US decided to do more summer time than standard a couple years back.
< 1320566945 258453 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed.
< 1320566954 952003 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst is the worst :(
< 1320566962 263325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ANYONE like dsty
< 1320566963 376509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds
< 1320566964 453599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst
< 1320566968 710969 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy second 01:00. I despise 01:59 being followed by 03:00.
< 1320566974 214614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even my fingers don't like dst
< 1320566978 715289 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad people enjoy dst
< 1320566978 767730 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It averages out to a mild hatred for DST.
< 1320567003 212677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst days are offset in a bad way
< 1320567021 875168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe we can do second 01:00 every day, and makes the minutes in an hour e.g. in the middle of the workday go twice as fast
< 1320567030 485338 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly we should eliminate the "spring back" bit.
< 1320567045 771766 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fall forward?
< 1320567045 997157 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I approve of your 25 hour day plan.
< 1320567053 409553 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1320567056 84403 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spring forward.
< 1320567061 90177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "and makes the minutes in an hour e.g. in the middle of the workday go twice as fast"
< 1320567062 753084 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck DST.
< 1320567069 683349 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I want 25 hour days.
< 1320567090 918768 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make everyone *else* have trouble maintaining normal sleep. :P
< 1320567141 255091 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh does someone know how to view bot edits in wikipedia's page histories?
< 1320567180 98186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I
< 1320567180 995221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1320567189 893199 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i found some vandalism, but there is no sign of it in the diffs
< 1320567194 176905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know anti-vandalism etc. bots don't make edits marked as bot
< 1320567204 36588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there is
< 1320567209 170395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cache
< 1320567214 28355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or looking harder :)
< 1320567231 127454 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes
< 1320567237 843251 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32522
< 1320567269 826413 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe it's actually in an included template.
< 1320567320 110033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, that sounds likely
< 1320567340 634737 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if wikipedia wasn't so dog slow...
< 1320567352 895880 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess it would be, on the cat page.
< 1320567363 831016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arf arf arf
< 1320567477 130051 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320567516 505853 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1320567563 403164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567563 794647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567564 234807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567564 531040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567564 794301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1320567571 219466 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :649) <ais523> elliott: so what are the two issues with xfce?  <elliott> they're very unlikely to fuck up Xfce, and it can be made to work basically exactly like gnome two
< 1320567573 183407 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :398) <elliott> oerjan: but hypothetically, assume a Christian spontaneously materialised during the apocalypse
< 1320567586 962112 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :627) <elliott> Dear god stop staring at me.  <monqy> no never  <Phantom_Hoover> monqy is always staring at everyone.  <monqy> it takes many eyes to do this but I manage  <Phantom_Hoover> He is an inspiration to us all.
< 1320567587 321580 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :465) <fizzie> elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for!
< 1320567587 439094 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :261) <fizzie> Deewiant: Did you take the course at some point and/or were you taking it now and/or did you actually already graduate and/or are you still in Otaniemi anyway?
< 1320567626 1737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :649 is the worst but I don't have the heart to remove any
< 1320567690 872353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log so you are doing for compilers what imperative programming did for functional programming
< 1320567716 5667 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-02.txt:10:46:13: <elliott> `addquote <oklopol> so you are doing for compilers what imperative programming did for functional programming
< 1320567725 647276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`logurl 2011-10-02.txt:10:46:13:
< 1320567728 147543 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-10-02
< 1320567844 511473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:43:37: <itidus20> elliott: i like this dialogue. because im never going to drop an idea so easily. whatever holes you can find in the idea i can apply more patches
< 1320567844 663146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was basically the height of itidity
< 1320568080 187482 :spl1nt!dcec82df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.236.130.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320568140 266836 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!
< 1320568154 35462 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you see vandalism at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#External_links ?
< 1320568169 9436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes
< 1320568183 931476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see...
< 1320568203 650378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: trying to purge it
< 1320568219 302410 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not in the page when i try to edit it :P
< 1320568222 37731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see, all gone
< 1320568224 546055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just cached
< 1320568230 291047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I purged the page and now it's fixed
< 1320568236 673980 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320568242 794797 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've reloaded several times D:
< 1320568249 956054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: purging is a MW thing.
< 1320568251 734670 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should make a movie about fungot
< 1320568252 711822 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: there was no sleep for either of them that night, but sat up thinking of the door, and the bed of death with the black pall but is finally restored to security and happiness with her lover fnord, after the death of his only son conrad on the latter's fnord fnord,
< 1320568255 531206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try refreshing now
< 1320568264 507044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just append ?action=purge to a page url and click the button
< 1320568267 828301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it re-renders the page on the server side
< 1320568275 734516 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1320568283 97299 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it worked by simply reloading now
< 1320568292 422660 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume your purge fixed it for everyone
< 1320568294 932194 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why won't my brother's XBox read discs? I just want to play AC:B
< 1320568297 309201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My main hobby outside Wikipedia is the VMS Mosaic web browser (hence my username)."
< 1320568303 596744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a really shitty hobby, User:VMS_Mosaic.
< 1320568306 803146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep
< 1320568395 198753 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMS Mosaic?
< 1320568410 854171 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1320568418 312135 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1320568423 667396 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats shachaf -----###
< 1320568440 149565 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too sure what VMS is...
< 1320568469 174050 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an old OS
< 1320568470 590254 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My father once ported vi to VMS. It was apparently quite popular.
< 1320568473 386042 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1320568480 88023 :spl1nt!dcec82df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.236.130.223 QUIT :Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1320568510 867285 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first university account was on a VAX/VMS system
< 1320568514 432031 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this was your father's operating system
< 1320568539 480226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more civilized software from a more civilized time
< 1320568575 569248 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMS was many things, but I don't know if civilized is among them.
< 1320568590 192738 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it stand for?
< 1320568633 46688 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtual Memory System, apparently.
< 1320568656 462536 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map succ "VMS"
< 1320568657 486717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "WNT"
< 1320568658 689302 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg
< 1320568675 739678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows NT?
< 1320568680 207253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <shachaf> VMS Mosaic?  <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.  <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1320568682 509859 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :708) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic?  <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS.  <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
< 1320568684 909357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* spl1nt has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
< 1320568685 940133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg :')
< 1320568687 907504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was our friend.
< 1320568729 857347 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a spl1nt?
< 1320568741 568205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best spl1nt
< 1320568750 85521 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for mending broken b0nes
< 1320568836 281772 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the VMS hierarchical help system
< 1320568852 128124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had memories of VMS.
< 1320568861 88990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could know that it would be foolish to wish for memories of VMS.
< 1320568869 229617 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have memories of some operating system
< 1320568874 196787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was text-based
< 1320568878 780982 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was in a garage
< 1320568880 872215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dos
< 1320568891 655362 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CP/M
< 1320568896 546763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if you've used dos without realising then it's dos then i'm really weirded out
< 1320568898 628444 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Mount Waverley, VIC
< 1320568908 568656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was 3-4
< 1320568909 761089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. from when you lived in scotland
< 1320568913 545015 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320568938 872991 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY ASSASSIN'S CREED HAS LOADED
< 1320568945 752843 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did help pascal, you got help on the pascal program but also a submenu for individual functions
< 1320568963 466889 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMS apparently had this fancy QIO thing.
< 1320568963 700854 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the hierarchy was quite deep
< 1320568976 914447 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pascal compiler
< 1320569470 2583 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I was Korean, I'd be fearing for my life
< 1320569476 598194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :648) <fungot> sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life.
< 1320569477 34163 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when the driver came out of those years to engulf him utterly.
< 1320569477 101054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1320569479 702730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i remember that
< 1320569510 839123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't that essentially what info does
< 1320569524 71622 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a fan and a closed door
< 1320569561 821658 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guess.  on the command line, this was more like a nested version of irssi help, though
< 1320569585 706395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, so you went deeper by taking the last command and appending?
< 1320569590 744356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like http >:)
< 1320569595 268983 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a graphical version, but i only rarely saw an actual DEC workstation
< 1320569595 440487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: beware fan death
< 1320569634 214247 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full documentation for blahB is maintained as a Texinfo manual.   If the info and blah programs are properly installed at your site, the command info blah should give you access to the complete manual.
< 1320569640 487625 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, man, an irssi bug.
< 1320569657 786642 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except you didn't have to prepend the current term if you were already on it, this was interactive.
< 1320569668 444697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so it's not command-line :P
< 1320569690 773721 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guess i meant terminal, as opposed to graphical
< 1320569694 959303 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type: something something CtrlBblahCtrlB something something, where CtrlB is the "bold" indicator. Then move cursor on top of the "b" in "blah", and press M-d.
< 1320569695 161471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320569724 870485 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mainly logged in via genuine physical VT100/VT3something terminals
< 1320569727 598273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did it actually have a line-based interface, though, or was it layout-based (i.e. like typical guis, moving a cursor around and activating things)
< 1320569739 540626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: line-based
< 1320569770 819961 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was still the best help system i'd seen at the time :P
< 1320569773 775035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it sounds like info has the kind of structure you want, it's just that the clients suck :)
< 1320569789 643974 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess no one here appreciates a good irssi bug.
< 1320569789 697054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nobody but GNU people want to, or do, write info pages...
< 1320569803 436134 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/good/bad/
< 1320569804 367822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I figure they're probably too numerous to appreciate.
< 1320569805 596603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like lives.
< 1320569817 975461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until there are, like, less than a billion people alive, I'm a sociopath.
< 1320569845 907131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :592) <CakeProphet> monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people.  [...around half an hour later...]  <CakeProphet> @messages  <lambdabot> quicksilver said 1y 2m 18d 19h 54m 29s ago: you use @tell
< 1320569849 744257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the most beautiful thing to ever happen
< 1320569903 237102 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320569941 817555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :567) <monqy> mmm these music samples are still so tasteful
< 1320569941 977372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :568) <monqy> im sampling ultra hip holiday  <monqy> hes the boogie woogie santa clause  <monqy> switching to oktoberfest  <monqy> yes i would love to shop to this
< 1320569944 990526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the qdb makes great light reading
< 1320570699 602889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320570738 148357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexander Kramir, from the novel Lentara is a fairly accurately portrayed boy with Albinism who helps an alien race save the Earth and falls in love with an alien. He later fathers a child who will help save the universe
< 1320570742 756033 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is probably better light reading.
< 1320571064 167975 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320571064 551713 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
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< 1320571125 158539 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320571411 684685 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable205.137-82-70.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: Radiateur
< 1320573363 103595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320573497 259866 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honey bees transform nectar into honey by a process of regurgitation, and store it as a primary food source in wax honeycombs inside the beehive. Beekeeping practices encourage overproduction of honey so the excess can be taken from the colony.
< 1320573504 386871 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm regurgitated nectar.
< 1320573527 28175 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, bleaching brain
< 1320573579 797843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youd idn't know that?
< 1320573604 806253 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably have known at previous pre-bleaching occasions
< 1320573668 278651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :545) <itidus20> well, you have bested me  <zzo38> itidus20: Yes.
< 1320573669 498936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::')
< 1320573974 455535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :484) <oklopol> interestingly enough, go is a second player win  <oklopol> chess is also first player win  <oklopol> tennis, interestingly enough, is always a draw.
< 1320573981 434898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have you ever read this qdb i mean damn
< 1320574077 944584 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1320574521 595094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :356) <crystal-cola> http://www.sessionmagazine.com/img/nature/worlds-10-smallest-animals/worlds-10-smallest-animals07.jpg  <crystal-cola> worlds biggest thumb
< 1320574536 405673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's getting to that stage in the fax cycle where i start to miss em
< 1320575180 779917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :241) <Phatom__Hovver> LoTR actually compresses pretty well into a film; the large amount of description becomes unnecessary. <pikh> LotR would compress pretty well into a book; the large amount of description *is* unnecessary.
< 1320575189 694272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wonder whether phatom and pikh actually said that
< 1320575254 98490 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1320575304 733591 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-82-44.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320575454 357368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We did.
< 1320575476 44452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log <pikh>
< 1320575481 359708 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-14.txt:23:04:21: <HackEgo> ​261) <Phatom__Hovver> LoTR actually compresses pretty well into a film; the large amount of description becomes unnecessary. <pikh> LotR would compress pretty well into a book; the large amount of description *is* unnecessary. \ 272) <oklopol> oerjan: also actually A(4, 4) is larger than
< 1320575486 588506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sceptical
< 1320575499 752809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember saying it!
< 1320575506 992996 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're talking about the nicks.
< 1320575511 437627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i am
< 1320575764 508427 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 272
< 1320575766 727508 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :272) <Vorpal> !bfjoust test (-)*10000  <EgoBot> Score for Vorpal_test: 12.9  <Vorpal> yay
< 1320575775 45071 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1320575780 234432 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 271
< 1320575782 501124 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :271) <elliott> Deewiant: ha, you were wrong, I have stacks, fungespace and MULTIPLE functions! <elliott> and a monad! <elliott> nothing can stop me now!
< 1320575797 433847 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum
< 1320575808 216997 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 261
< 1320575810 230399 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :261) <fizzie> Deewiant: Did you take the course at some point and/or were you taking it now and/or did you actually already graduate and/or are you still in Otaniemi anyway?
< 1320575819 765111 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1320575836 986237 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 252
< 1320575839 584437 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :252) <oklopol> ah yes, indeed, alan turing was gay and stupid
< 1320575850 447170 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough
< 1320575871 901275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320575980 71779 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Bye!
< 1320576488 157510 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1320576829 772584 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1320577731 883584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320579033 796611 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320580092 983342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there?
< 1320580103 514963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1320580105 37768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there may be ways to get better support for multilib on arch
< 1320580112 272410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found a package named gcc-multilib
< 1320580115 357245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet tried it
< 1320580129 990327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, gcc-multilib is part of the multilib repos.
< 1320580133 613564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used in conjunction with them.
< 1320580134 350212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1320580140 765387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it provides gcc
< 1320580145 737947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to pacman -Si
< 1320580147 378358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't "better support", it's "being able to link with multilib things at all". What's your point?
< 1320580153 847438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1320580158 382237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still the same shitty support at the core.
< 1320580163 552913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320580165 806040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, you're meant to replace gcc with gcc-multilib.
< 1320580603 472015 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320580744 11364 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320580744 597926 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
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< 1320580804 47107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there a name for "initialism except they selected X instead of E for words starting with Ex-"?
< 1320580813 943432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"stupid"
< 1320580819 441989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also "common"
< 1320580830 686898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call it an acronym, nobody cares
< 1320580833 439061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320580851 408165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably most people don't know what "initialism" even is
< 1320580859 304014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two examples that spring to my mind: XML and AVX)
< 1320581110 451748 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMS, note there was EMS before.
< 1320581140 396083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just uncontrollably became more X-Treme.
< 1320581149 586217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the DOS thingy?
< 1320581153 945457 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It starts getting ridiculous when these terms are translated.
< 1320581157 238389 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1320581173 947816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<twice11> It starts getting ridiculous when these terms are translated. <-- oh?
< 1320581174 768367 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembering of "Erweiterungsspeicher" and "Expansionsspeicher"...
< 1320581196 276039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume I don't understand German
< 1320581236 509021 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just that you take the spelled out version of these acronyms in english (most people already don't know of), and translate them to German.
< 1320581246 749788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320581251 924079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320581259 226540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320581264 280462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, makes sense so far
< 1320581285 324035 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :End result: You get something nobody undestands and also can't correlate to the maybe known terms XMS/EMS as the acronyms do not really fit to the german terms.
< 1320581292 596377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320581322 434406 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that EMS means Expanded Memory Specification, XMS means Extended Memory Specification.
< 1320581328 349334 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both words starting with "Ex"...
< 1320581332 32757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320581357 929885 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the german translation, only one word starts with Ex - which is expanded that has been left as technical term.
< 1320581370 437392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320581376 944087 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :While eXtended has been replaced with the german term "Erweiterung".
< 1320581395 268613 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :XHTML too, but that's just following in XML's footsteps.
< 1320581411 481167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember hearing "utökat minne" in Swedish. I don't remember which one of those that refers to, literally that means "extended memory" though.
< 1320581413 237799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and XP when it's standing for "eXperience Points".
< 1320581416 127126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grew up with a Mac
< 1320581418 6240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a PC
< 1320581423 896589 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC these translations are made by Digital Research - but do you think Microsoft learned anything of that?
< 1320581430 632443 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :of->from...
< 1320581455 641542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, should be EP in all games
< 1320581467 886633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, did windows xp stand for Windows Experience Points?
< 1320581483 139236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't xbox have some "microsoft points" or something
< 1320581490 523972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... maybe they confused the names somehow?
< 1320581491 615945 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eXPerience, I'd think.
< 1320581498 727116 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :They introduced the HMA (a 286 concept of magically adding a near 64k memory addressable in DOS). Which was translated as "Oberer Speicher" in German.
< 1320581527 487238 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's what the marketing people say. Some people claim in fact it means eXtra Problems.
< 1320581579 46210 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The HMA translation was not that bad until another concept of extending conventional memory, called "upper memory blocks" (UMB).
< 1320581589 54769 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was then translated as "hoher Speicher".
< 1320581610 150196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, xp was probably one of the better windows versions so far. Especially the 64-bit one.
< 1320581629 926715 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the ethymologic connection between "hoher Speicher" and "high memory" on the one hand, and "upper memory" and "oberer Speicher" on the other hand.
< 1320581633 985627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Me + Windows XP = the almighty Windows Mexp.
< 1320581641 811591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Windows Sexp, but with a sugary syntax.
< 1320581654 273812 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish terminology for EMS and XMS is "laajennettu muisti" and "jatkettu muisti", those are probably the closest-in-meaning words for "expanded" and "extended".
< 1320581655 246717 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess you are talking about XP after SP1 or so.
< 1320581668 618265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, yeah, but compared to 9x it was way way better.
< 1320581685 896856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the original I mean
< 1320581688 142193 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 9x is a game loader, not an operating system ;)
< 1320581691 814169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320581700 221580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Then what's DOS?
< 1320581706 756003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :older game loader
< 1320581710 859968 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game loader with bad graphics?-)
< 1320581722 299425 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game loader missing a common 32 bit driver infrastructure.
< 1320581724 40702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :game loader not even pretending to have multitasking
< 1320581741 513810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good god you guys, be patient, twice11 MIGHT have generated perfect quote material with a one-word response like "Crap"!
< 1320581743 561467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you ruined it!
< 1320581747 362601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ruined everything!
< 1320581753 276280 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, I suspect that windows server might be the best windows version, since so far xp 64-bit has been the best I used, and that was based on windows server 2003 iirc.
< 1320581795 647299 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 also works not that bad, as far as I have experience with Windows.
< 1320581818 352256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, windows 7 is quite bloated compared to XP. Try installing both on a SATA 1 disk. Check boot times.
< 1320581824 640978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 64-bit of both
< 1320581835 507259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no! Boot times!
< 1320581841 859996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing Vorpal told me he doesn't care about just a few weeks ago.
< 1320581844 273790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also general sluggishness of the interface
< 1320581846 562095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or less, actually.
< 1320581873 976648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't experienced any interface sluggishness with 7 at all.
< 1320581874 326815 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Compare boot times of Windows XP and DOS on the same hardware
< 1320581883 955110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't really care about 10 seconds vs. half a minute on a system I rarely reboot. I do care about 2 minutes vs. 7 minutes on a system I reboot often.
< 1320581890 968382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have to consider the context.
< 1320581899 959669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It sounds like the context is: your system is really shitty. :p
< 1320581903 599359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, indeed.
< 1320581912 861698 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you run Windows XP and Windows 7 on the same system with 384MB RAM, Win 7 will be much more sluggish, of course.
< 1320581922 239365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yeah, and I bet Windows 7 is really sluggish on this 286 I just materialised :P
< 1320581929 770830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, it probably doesn't even RUN on my Commodore 64.
< 1320581933 718132 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: gone
< 1320581933 771296 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Windows XP won't run on it, too.
< 1320581939 875107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, thing is, apart from the disk the system in question is top notch
< 1320581950 85365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK guys, what's the best Windows version for ENIACs?
< 1320581951 919097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, I simply reused an old disk for installing windows 7 on.
< 1320581978 746644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not THAT old either.
< 1320581986 647323 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :People tried hard to get WinXP getting run on minimal hardware. I guess they ended up on an underclocked 486 with 8MB of RAM.
< 1320581998 754481 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :To install they needed a Pentium with 24MB.
< 1320582002 433123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I remember that.
< 1320582004 328729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was awesome.
< 1320582006 432452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320582008 185593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :link?
< 1320582016 329239 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 minute boot time or like that.
< 1320582026 31228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess WinPE or such?
< 1320582034 406781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean full XP?
< 1320582039 654676 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, full XP.
< 1320582043 430137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive
< 1320582049 181558 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it was not usable at all...
< 1320582053 539744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1320582095 897869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, anyway linux runs fine from that same SATA 1 disk that windows 7 runs terribly from. And XP ran fine from it too back in the days.
< 1320582113 173644 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :German version of one of those tests: http://www.winhistory.de/more/386/xpmini.htm
< 1320582147 593360 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And english version: http://www.winhistory.de/more/386/xpmini.htm.en
< 1320582229 756666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former displayed as English for me too
< 1320582239 566060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it looks at the http headers for preferred language
< 1320582245 871844 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses that, too.
< 1320582335 380269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it uses pixie magic.
< 1320582341 712437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teach the controversy.
< 1320582561 233660 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, seems I was wrong - at least these people did not swap the CPU to a 486 after installation.
< 1320582570 249725 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was 18MB RAM minimum, not 8MB.
< 1320582578 769275 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for exaggregating.
< 1320582653 119440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help but feel they gave up right when things could have become really interesting.
< 1320582661 524162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. patching the XP installer to stop it complaining about hardware :)
< 1320582715 456167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1320582735 596010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they wanted to do this on a vanilla xp obviously
< 1320582764 320108 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess the installer has some reason to check for CMPXCHG8B
< 1320582776 386885 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that instruction is introduced with the Pentium.
< 1320582787 267346 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPUID is available on late 486, too.
< 1320582795 420460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Microsoft probably had some reason to tell people not to use XP on machines with <64 megs of ram, too :-)
< 1320582822 497498 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, but I am quite confident, the XP kernel or ntdll indeed uses CMPXCHG8B.
< 1320582840 353687 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, if you do this kind of stuff, just add an invalid opcode handler...
< 1320582847 458815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. But maybe not always? :-)
< 1320582851 50406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can turn that stuff off.
< 1320582880 98930 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMPXCHG8B is a core instruction for some kind of lockless thread-safe linked lists.
< 1320582899 550044 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like very likely used in the deep core of the kernel.
< 1320582900 319173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can emulate CMPXCHG8B. I don't know what the semantics of that are wrt bus mastering hardware though
< 1320582949 368175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: You know, f00f bug involved CMPXCHG8B...
< 1320582951 988503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why it checks.
< 1320582958 254103 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a real 486 board with ISA cards - bus mastering problem gone ;)
< 1320582962 31472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1320582963 472330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: But: You could just replace that with a lock.
< 1320582967 174860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could go wrong?
< 1320582996 558111 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMPXCHG8B does a locked operation on 8 bytes at a time.
< 1320583012 944598 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :just using LOCK can't do an 8-byte-operation.
< 1320583020 453182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant a software lock.
< 1320583029 567949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: You could just pause the scheduler while that code runs :)
< 1320583047 890964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for a single CPU you could just disable interrupts and do it
< 1320583053 238735 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A software lock is what they replaced by CMPXCHG8B for improved performance...
< 1320583065 368596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yeah, 'cuz that's gonna help SO much on a 486.
< 1320583077 129744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be blazing if only we didn't have software locks!
< 1320583106 813916 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have access to the source of the kernel to be able to replace CMPXCHG8B by software locks or some PUSHF/CLI/POPF magic, it won't be XP anymore.
< 1320583129 873708 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect the CMPXCHG8B instruction to be inlined to many places...
< 1320583154 439518 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding an "undefined opcode" handler sounds less intrusive (and less performant)
< 1320583184 873179 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: The story goes on: http://www.winhistory.de/more/386/vistamini.htm Vista on an AMD K5 90MHz, 224MB of RAM.
< 1320583191 684256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, a handler is probably the best way to do it.
< 1320583206 925571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :224MB? Pfft
< 1320583232 164909 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be interesting whether you manage to boot 7 on "just" 192MB.
< 1320583238 808134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, what is the minimum for win7 yeah?
< 1320583259 723847 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. Too bad they didn't make a report on that.
< 1320583259 841618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, the last link is german only
< 1320583261 280602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 on a cardboard box with a toothbrush
< 1320583271 381043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some salt
< 1320583295 965154 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't cheat. That is Windows Phone 7!
< 1320583311 157135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D Windows Phone 7 standard deployment platform
< 1320583317 300207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320583320 628070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The toothbrush has to have at LEAST three bristles.
< 1320583326 656472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no more than seven.
< 1320583826 369168 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 bristles.
< 1320584101 772963 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows XP whistles...
< 1320584114 854201 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or long Vista horns.
< 1320584199 145485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I remember the days of Longhorn.
< 1320584214 293081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it was basically XP, but it had a horrible sidebar and every window had a garish-as-fuck light blue gradient all over it.
< 1320584945 66988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320584959 645337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :was longhorn the codename for xp or vista, I don't remember
< 1320584975 483065 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longhorn -> Vista, Whistler -> XP
< 1320585002 761020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320585003 493355 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Whistler -> Server 2003?
< 1320585009 291811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the code name for 7?
< 1320585022 816798 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longhorn really ready to manufacture? ;)
< 1320585045 388012 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Blackcomb, later Vienna
< 1320585048 393113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320585058 612956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a code name for windows 8?
< 1320585074 233106 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of
< 1320585115 318784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 8
< 1320585150 399337 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to de.wikipedia, there were the code names "Mystic" and "Orient" for sucessors of W7 and WSrv2008R2, but now the project seems called "Windows Next"
< 1320585213 69205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1320585238 952943 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, interesting 2008R2 is available for x64 and Itanium, but not for x86.
< 1320585251 335228 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there really that much buisiness interest in Itanium?
< 1320585269 168178 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just some MS-Intel-treaty that they have to support it?
< 1320585311 473342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody uses Itanium at all.
< 1320585321 408966 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That was my impression, too.
< 1320585321 989008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, people do, but they're rounding errors. Legacy rounding errors.
< 1320585345 848943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it has been used in some HPC applications?
< 1320585346 829350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think IBM still sell servers with it? It's pretty much the case that people jumped on board Itanium because it was THE FUTURE, and some people haven't managed to jump back off yet.
< 1320585350 134145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not much any more
< 1320585354 185518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah some mainframe stuff
< 1320585379 139402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in theory it is an awesome idea... In practise? Not so much
< 1320585426 265301 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a simple VLIW design is great, but if the realtime out-of-order-scheduling works so well that it beats compile-time VLIW, it's not really helpfull...
< 1320585445 169349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1320585480 776501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now would be a great time to tell you all how much I love graph reduction architectures.
< 1320585482 179915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there are some specialized processors using VLIW though
< 1320585489 218230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction sets: LITERALLY OBSOLETE.
< 1320585519 552534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how good are they are number crunching?
< 1320585526 933079 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Does Itanium count as "some specized processor"?
< 1320585531 70220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They have arithmetic primitives, yaknow :P
< 1320585537 2567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, not in this context
< 1320585561 865721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right
< 1320585575 488481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how does pipelining and so on work with them?
< 1320585605 698970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway what do you mean with ISAs being obsolete?
< 1320585619 181225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you still need some form of encoding for the input
< 1320585621 475424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not obvious how to answer at all, since there's no concept of an "instruction".
< 1320585628 92779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, but that form doesn't include any instructions.
< 1320585633 305900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a set of rewrite rules.
< 1320585649 292102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those aren't instructions, they don't /do/ anything.
< 1320585651 944923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're declarations.
< 1320585653 734630 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite instructions...
< 1320585660 225720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well the description of how you encode rewrite rules and data must be defined in something similar to an ISA, whatever you call it.
< 1320585667 769139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No?
< 1320585677 410859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISAs are pretty much inherently imperative; they're composed of /instructions/
< 1320585680 996209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declarations aren't instructions
< 1320585688 947251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Except they're not executed in order, or executed at all :)
< 1320585704 640950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: They're just used as rules for the CPU's reduction.
< 1320585705 752394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with something similar I mean "formal documentation of the input expected by the processor"
< 1320585707 84036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes
< 1320585720 462284 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :think speculative execution, out of order execution.
< 1320585720 580471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody thinks that when they think ISA
< 1320585737 685528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Sure, you can do speculative evaluation on such a machine...
< 1320585746 197547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whatever, arguing this will be pointless anyway
< 1320585759 536835 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even today instructions not always executed in order or suddenly rolled back...
< 1320585789 420220 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just instructions including a much more complicated set of conditional execution than just referring to some flag bits.
< 1320585792 528283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Well, CPU architectures look nothing like their ISAs nowadays.
< 1320585806 786780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're much less imperative in fact... and much more weird :)
< 1320585822 152776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just try really hard to perfectly emulate the old instruction sets for compatibility.
< 1320585823 530816 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The x86 instruction set is weird enough. Really.
< 1320585848 748127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's weird, it's just not as weird as what actually goes on...
< 1320585893 492135 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the end, you just interpret that weird x86 instruction set into something sensible.
< 1320585907 194636 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling instead of interpreting failed on the market (see Transmeta)
< 1320585922 611527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1320585994 864804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bus will be the last to be dropped on common consumer x86 PCs: ISA or PCI?
< 1320586008 544886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect ISA will stay around longer, for compatibility.
< 1320586013 223262 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISA is already dropped on consumer PCs.
< 1320586016 225069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Honestly, if I was a compiler dev I would be begging the CPU corps to standardise and give access to the lower-level details... OK, I wouldn't because that sounds like it would fundamentally contradict my Principle of Absolute Laziness, but I can't imagine compiler devs couldn't do a better job at sorting things out than CPUs doing things just-in-time.
< 1320586021 200502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, the slots yes, not the bus
< 1320586035 957242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation P67 Express Chipset Family LPC Controller (rev 05)
< 1320586037 380000 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real ISA is dead.
< 1320586042 263712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, I said bus
< 1320586046 835980 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :LPC replaced it.
< 1320586056 121889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it is still called ISA bridge thoug
< 1320586058 330597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though*
< 1320586060 45498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why
< 1320586073 170070 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :LPC is kind-of 4-bit-parallel serial ISA.
< 1320586096 127733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320586100 56170 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is as a lower pin count (hence the name!), obviously.
< 1320586160 927936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmph: ansi-terminal does nothing for input whatsoever
< 1320586204 986986 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Having the CPU do the lowest level details provides strong advantages: Independence of exact architectural designs, like you are able to add an extra execution engine and all apps are going to use it, and makes things like simultaneous multitrhreading possible at all.
< 1320586225 928678 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some abstractions seems like not being too bad.
< 1320586234 875319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Yeah, it's probably true that the microcode layer changes way too quickly for that to be feasible.
< 1320586250 148104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern x86-64: kind of a mess?
< 1320586287 749364 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything called remotely like x86 is something to stay away from if you like to keep sanity.
< 1320586309 818597 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 8086 instruction set might have been a good idea in 1978, though.
< 1320586325 252742 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already the 8088 is an abnomination, in my oppinion.
< 1320586339 909070 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :What use is a processor that starves on instruction fetch bandwidht?
< 1320586362 351535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just buy an FPGA and put a Reduceron on it and build a computer up from that, out of wood.
< 1320586370 858187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I can make a wooden monitor. It would feel very appropriately DIY.
< 1320586443 623100 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But history repeats, processors starving on instruction bandwidth reappear all the time, like the Cx486SLC2 or the first Pentium 4 designs (although in that case, it was the RAM/Northbridge that didn't manage to keep up with the excessive bandwidth required).
< 1320586470 666436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we need is Checkout CPUs. (Problem: The instruction manuals would _probably_ form a black hole.)
< 1320586472 145364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why you have instruction caches
< 1320586520 857009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the current technology you can either make expensive, fast & small RAM or you can make cheap, slow & large RAM.
< 1320586526 318436 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction caches on the mentioned processors are too small, or way to small.
< 1320586537 607196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1320586562 1700 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once inherited a cheap craptop with a Cx486SLC2.
< 1320586574 443721 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bus interface: 16-bit 286-like at 25MHz.
< 1320586586 340229 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processor core: 486 variant at 50MHz.
< 1320586591 557345 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cache size: 1KB.
< 1320586606 409512 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing the processor is fast at is tiny benchmark loops.
< 1320586617 990668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320586677 511014 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320586746 68485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has an L2 cache three times as big as my desktop. Crazy Core 2 Duo.
< 1320586751 314166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 MB L2
< 1320586806 978651 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :By cache is longer than yours! 4MB in a C2D T7200
< 1320586814 480267 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cache...
< 1320586824 156403 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320586838 643004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Core 2s go up to like 12 meg cache?
< 1320586842 142222 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly
< 1320586848 232878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a laptop C2D though
< 1320586853 458792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were just moving all the RAM to L2.
< 1320586854 557386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     P8400  @ 2.26GHz
< 1320586854 824093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not!
< 1320586882 526066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I heard of CPUs with 256 MB L2.
< 1320586886 137251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not x86 though
< 1320586887 914423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1320586891 824330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it was a PowerPC or Power
< 1320586896 250761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for HPC
< 1320586896 374171 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that some server CPU?
< 1320586901 445184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, HPC even
< 1320586908 101552 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :compute server ;)
< 1320586918 264314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh maybe it was 256 MB L3
< 1320586922 186545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than L2
< 1320586923 383047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1320586927 353273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still rather insane
< 1320586931 337364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :789324789234798234 TB L0!!!!!!111
< 1320586976 144842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find the L3 cache info for my laptop in lshw, not sure where else to look
< 1320586987 785685 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 0MB
< 1320586994 256114 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You laptop has no L3 cache.
< 1320586996 97582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, C2D had no L3?
< 1320586996 915852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320587025 867376 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think about the die size if you want an L3 cache that is signicantly bigger than your 3MB L2 cache.
< 1320587081 162637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320587081 749956 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So L3 needs to be outside the processor. The front-side bus is slow enough to have that backed by dual-channel DDR, so what use is a L3 cache.
< 1320587100 542494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop has 6 MB L3 it seems. That is a Core i7 Sandy Bridge. It seems to be internal to the processor.
< 1320587152 146170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core 2 doesn't do L3, Nehalem does.
< 1320587162 77648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, it lists L3 cache in two places? Once as 8 MB and once as 6 MB. Lol lshw
< 1320587190 186736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check what the intel cpu finder thingy has to say about it
< 1320587192 975380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1320587244 759615 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe lshw trusts DMI info.
< 1320587252 986047 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually an extremely bad idea.
< 1320587267 990038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, it is mostly "To be filled by O.E.M."
< 1320587281 650353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has accurate DMI info mostly
< 1320587356 522038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, intel claims 8 MB
< 1320587464 738768 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-37.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320587483 333602 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-126.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1320587672 300643 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, the info amount and structuring of lshw is quite impressive.
< 1320587742 76798 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In (at least) Sandy Bridge processors, it's not L2 cache, it's "Intel® Smart Cache". (That's how it's listed in ark.intel.com/ tech-specs listings.)
< 1320587797 701900 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-smart-cache.html -- wow, that's so Warriors of the Net -esque.
< 1320587810 89364 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320587843 605649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone actually pronounce it "cash"?
< 1320587887 820595 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't everyone?
< 1320587897 741466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say cash-ey.
< 1320587908 589792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, indeed
< 1320587918 486751 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says "cash", too
< 1320587927 570330 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've never heard cash-ey
< 1320587929 924115 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nobody pronounces it like that
< 1320587934 353066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do!
< 1320587935 97156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "warriors of the net"?
< 1320587939 491826 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :acache indians
< 1320587941 72667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It SOUNDS RIGHT.
< 1320587945 962417 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old joke: "Your parity check is overdrawn and you are out of cash"
< 1320587946 860201 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.warriorsofthe.net/
< 1320587968 199271 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you ever wonder how the Internet works? How does a router look like? What color does a IP packet have? How does a IP packet travel through firewall. All the answers and many more can be found in the Warriors of the net move."
< 1320587969 562915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sadly that (and the intel thing) both require flash. Oh well
< 1320587982 551974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway ansi-terminal doesn't do input?? Hmph at you, hmph
< 1320588006 624739 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The latter seems to work just fine with elinks.
< 1320588054 825074 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's even a non-youtube download link to SUnet.)
< 1320588100 774925 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess you mean noecho and nodelay and nocbreak and getch? Yeah, I don't think anything non-curses on Hackage does that
< 1320588112 875952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, libedit/readline/haskeline &co.
< 1320588117 265471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it is youtube indeed
< 1320588123 273181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But that's a very specific usecase :-P
< 1320588133 534149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use curses at all, sigh, it's just impossible
< 1320588134 546858 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just go download -> non-youtube link if you don't want flash.
< 1320588162 570603 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm, can you mix e.g. haskeline with ansi-terminal?
< 1320588164 880383 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Intel thing is very probably flash-only though.
< 1320588202 1007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ansi-terminal just does output colouration pretty much, so... yeah? It's just printf on steroids. Dunno about Windows. Don't care about Windows.
< 1320588237 583508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, youtube-dl seemed to work
< 1320588243 433 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you don't care about Windows you can implement everything using only putStr and ECMA-48 :-P
< 1320588246 823989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for intel of course
< 1320588249 392676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't even try that
< 1320588260 202671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Except raw input
< 1320588265 159299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway how does "smart cache" differ from L2?
< 1320588268 962382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wanna write my ioctls for me?
< 1320588272 331725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a technical level I mean
< 1320588295 686143 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "smart cache" is dynamically shared between processor cores and integrated graphics.
< 1320588301 522200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320588324 779290 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not particularly, no; see CCBI's TERM implementation if you're doing similar things
< 1320588331 620615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, why would you even make a library use the alternate screen with NO CHIOCE AT ALL. :/
< 1320588347 506072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, that D code will help me use awful ioctls with hideous structs from Haskell
< 1320588359 436836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can work around it by using only the terminfo interface of ncurses
< 1320588360 306385 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't use ioctl
< 1320588364 567912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, TERM in cfunge does that
< 1320588366 602192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How
< 1320588367 782155 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering stuff like Turbo Boost, where you effectively disable cores, it makes sense to reuse the cache from that core for running cores.
< 1320588368 903240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What do you do then
< 1320588378 505569 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What Vorpal's talking about
< 1320588382 271628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, basically doing what tput(1) does
< 1320588386 827665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; go on
< 1320588398 765756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I put shit on the screen like that :P
< 1320588400 339596 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: man putp
< 1320588413 922726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, check TERM.c from cfunge, I forgot the exact details
< 1320588427 622648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Uuugh this is ugly.
< 1320588436 548565 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, it is
< 1320588438 116013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyawy the coordination between NCRS and TERM is tricky
< 1320588447 781495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend not loading both NCRS and TERM at the same time.
< 1320588476 463493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *should* work for the cases I tested (as in, it doesn't crash), but the results might be somewhat hard to predict
< 1320588484 987407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And hscurses don't bind to it
< 1320588488 292705 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: char *go_xy = tigetstr("cup"); int x = 10, y = 20; putp(tparm(go_xy, y, x)); /* cursor is now at 10,20 */
< 1320588494 671732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Deewiant: And hscurses don't bind to it
< 1320588502 643518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Least, far as I can tell
< 1320588503 151242 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And?
< 1320588515 137421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you want me to suffer through the FFI for the privilege of using such an awful API?
< 1320588516 280866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1320588519 482673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it ugly
< 1320588521 69040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate my life.
< 1320588524 174311 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It only uses basic types and pointers to opaque structs AFAICT
< 1320588525 837259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :putp(cursor_down);
< 1320588535 612168 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That much FFI is hardly suffering
< 1320588537 568014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think cursor_down is defined in the header
< 1320588544 273574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: FFI is always sufferin'
< 1320588547 890769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it is a macro isn't it?
< 1320588552 914994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus
< 1320588553 544843 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your pain threshold is way lower than it should be
< 1320588557 823619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal demonstrates the FFI problem with ncurses
< 1320588560 234353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is a fucking macro
< 1320588574 286332 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nothing you need is a macro
< 1320588575 453427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep cursor_down /usr/include/term.h
< 1320588575 505838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define cursor_down                    CUR Strings[11]
< 1320588577 191341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1320588584 851760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How about that
< 1320588590 224947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, this will be painful from anything except C and C++
< 1320588590 581235 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You don't need that
< 1320588593 463382 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You use tigetstr
< 1320588608 895412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I know a way to work around this: Do a small C module that wraps this horrible macro API, then FFI to it
< 1320588614 541797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might not be too painful
< 1320588617 507946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Are you sure this actually does input
< 1320588641 229596 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the term.h interface does input.
< 1320588649 515063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though
< 1320588657 970718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you're both contradicting each other every line.
< 1320588665 960481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1320588671 366235 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I still don't know what you mean by "does input"
< 1320588679 542315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I presume he means stdin
< 1320588681 181294 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: getchar(3)
< 1320588689 678779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: With raw console, duh
< 1320588692 443691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No buffering
< 1320588694 895082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :set input unbuffered and do getchar()?
< 1320588702 471658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now you have two problems!
< 1320588702 618832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320588707 444670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me how to do the former; it will involve ioctl.
< 1320588713 447724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant just told me to use putp to avoid ioctl.
< 1320588720 418740 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to turn off kernel buffering/basic line editing.
< 1320588720 654856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so we come full circle.
< 1320588726 961435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no I think it involves setvbuf()
< 1320588733 917824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Right, that's just a hideous pain from anything but C :)
< 1320588746 31009 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just turning off userspace buffering like setvbuf() doesn't help.
< 1320588750 709951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1320588755 424062 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I said "if you're doing similar things", I can't even remember what things TERM has :-P
< 1320588777 131856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERM has  CDGHLSU
< 1320588780 572856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/  / /
< 1320588791 830320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not helpful I know)
< 1320588793 352829 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original idea was that in stuff like telnet, the telnet client does the whole line editing, and only complete lines get sent over the network.
< 1320588812 96819 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is enter_ca_mode sufficient, I wonder
< 1320588829 345426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doesn't that do the crazy alt-screen thingy?
< 1320588837 275440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: I wish that was actually done so I could get a benefit from all this awfulness
< 1320588842 592341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh line editing lag regularly annoys me
< 1320588846 372849 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the "do this before doing anything else"
< 1320588859 49449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does ccbi TERM do that?
< 1320588863 575585 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes
< 1320588871 569600 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: telnet does that as long as the program invoked does not turn off kernel line editing/buffering.
< 1320588880 182025 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could tunnel telnet over ssh.
< 1320588888 480258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, so does cfunge with some defines.
< 1320588892 725860 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1320588896 612216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Hmm, right, I've never used telnet for actual shells
< 1320588897 429146 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But don't expect tab completion or history or any other fancy stuff to work.
< 1320588900 898863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, that does the alternate screen that fucks with scrollbars
< 1320588912 94829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works without that
< 1320588912 147079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messes with more than just scrollbars
< 1320588914 549607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320588924 877563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fine for screen-oriented UIs
< 1320588925 865831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway:
< 1320588928 361937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my program is streaming, line-based
< 1320588928 596484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef TERM_CAP_CORRECT
< 1320588928 649125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :	putp(enter_ca_mode);
< 1320588928 716460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :	atexit(finalise);
< 1320588928 768850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif
< 1320588946 538188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is usually done
< 1320588952 384381 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have an option for buggy termcaps or something? :-P
< 1320588965 11941 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a line-based program, don't enter alt-screen mode. Easy ;)
< 1320588971 165151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is #defined at the top of the file, so changing it requires patching TERM.c
< 1320589002 527242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think I experimented with and without that though. And it worked fine without it in all tests. I did settle for having it on though, just in case...
< 1320589009 12330 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a library forces you to enter alt-screen mode, fix the library.
< 1320589040 69930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, problem is, you are supposed to use that before any cursor moving magic iirc. According to the documentation
< 1320589089 976623 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea was that you don't need cursor moving magic in a line-based program.
< 1320589108 593654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc elliott is doing a progress bar or something
< 1320589113 350035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's why wget goes into alternate screen mode to draw a progress bar
< 1320589118 194808 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the point where you implement your own readline with sensible wrapping, the idea breaks down...
< 1320589133 881202 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, wget does that? Are you sure?
< 1320589134 770400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it does? Why doesn't it mess up with the scrollbar then?
< 1320589135 599417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more than just progress bars here, I update status indicttors too
< 1320589137 824131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Sarcasm :)
< 1320589162 317557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was just giving an example of a line-based program that obviously needs cursor magic
< 1320589185 643059 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :backspace is enough for updating scrollbars.
< 1320589204 231047 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And backspace is not considered "cursor movement".
< 1320589213 685273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, progress bars you mean
< 1320589221 16362 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes.
< 1320589226 184266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: there's more at work here
< 1320589231 289293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have multiple progress bars on different lines
< 1320589240 833808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like I said, also have to update status indicators in various lines
< 1320589256 531988 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, it is no longer plain line based... Hybrid concepts are not supported. Too bad.
< 1320589280 304299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Well, I'm not going to give up when the fix is "only" an ioctl away...
< 1320589297 448551 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing actually breaks when you use cursor codes before that anyway.
< 1320589314 473313 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :On most terminals I can imagine, doing what you want to do without alt screen mode works.
< 1320589336 420534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, isn't the ioctl for input you said? Rather than output?
< 1320589339 305887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, just means I can't benefit from things like ncurses which force me into alt-screen mode
< 1320589347 436028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, I just mean that if I need to roll my own escapes, I need ioctl for input
< 1320589350 591349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to using curses
< 1320589356 354708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joys of telnet.
< 1320589357 26304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1320589357 625916 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320589393 896974 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses must be usable in non-alt-screen mode too.
< 1320589401 1716 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320589413 613108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what happens if you have more progress bar than the height of the terminal? I have seen programs like powertop fuck up when output didn't fit on the screen
< 1320589415 405104 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, GNU readline is based on ncurses. And readline does not enforce alt-screen.
< 1320589421 429719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if they fixed that in more recent versions
< 1320589424 162061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible
< 1320589431 720238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Well, the standard API definitely does it.
< 1320589446 254472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost positive that telnet can ask terminal dimensions.
< 1320589458 72234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost positive you have no idea what we're talking about.
< 1320589463 234457 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too.
< 1320589467 2152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pretty sure you can cursor-up beyond the displayed terminal height
< 1320589471 427478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than you're talking about telnet and terminal dimensions
< 1320589473 313661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1320589474 268116 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't look at me, I just got here
< 1320589476 126431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really a very big terminal, just with limited viewport
< 1320589477 378699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not telnet
< 1320589484 355513 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay. well then nevermind. :)
< 1320589560 422025 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320589745 888781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which ioctl is it
< 1320589759 182337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCSCTATTR or some nonsense like that.
< 1320589763 523376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just typed random chars that look right.)
< 1320589766 690406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICOSAGET. Something.
< 1320589771 24676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an awful bugger.
< 1320589781 544470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which man page?
< 1320589785 623545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :termios stuff.
< 1320589793 146379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Serial_Programming/termios
< 1320589803 268583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has some "lovely" examples.
< 1320589810 545936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, OK that's not a ioctl, but there's an ioctl underneath it.
< 1320589814 437571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't termios deprecated?
< 1320589875 838799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFORMING TO
< 1320589875 893266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :       tcgetattr(), tcsetattr(), tcsendbreak(), tcdrain(), tcflush(), tcflow(), cfgetispeed(), cfgetospeed(), cfsetispeed(), and cfsetospeed()  are  specified
< 1320589875 955373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :       in POSIX.1-2001.
< 1320589876 8032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :       cfmakeraw() and cfsetspeed() are nonstandard, but available on the BSDs.
< 1320589879 417662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe?
< 1320590102 623241 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :temios-like: TCGETS/TCSETS{,F,W}; termio-like: TCGETA/TCSETA{F,W}
< 1320590119 710901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget which is newer.
< 1320590149 930926 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCSETS == TCSANOW, TCSETSF == TCSADRAIN, TCSETSF = TCSAFLUSH
< 1320590157 443227 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's SysV/BSD, not old/new.
< 1320590261 623414 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other people claim termios is standard, termio is BSD.
< 1320590296 259849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD user, by any chance? :-)
< 1320590318 882527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The termio interface is now obsolete: POSIX.1-1990 standardized a modified version of this interface, under the name termios."
< 1320590322 553341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :says man termio here
< 1320590360 538318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1320590408 703027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would guess twice11 is a BSD user from that
< 1320590412 628088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, /can/ you go above the terminal size with cursor movement?
< 1320590418 938410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's easy enough to avoid.
< 1320590424 308843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it and see?
< 1320590424 772787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes scrolling up ... ugly.
< 1320590427 317049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lazy.
< 1320590433 601927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a few different terminals I guess
< 1320590442 316440 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Linux only.
< 1320590467 420 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes remembering things incorrectly.
< 1320590508 38144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ tput cols | cat -v
< 1320590508 203406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :168
< 1320590508 255829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disturbing. :/
< 1320590513 898994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reveal your secrets!!!
< 1320590532 345581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace?
< 1320590549 395638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might just look at $COLUMNS :P
< 1320590555 14381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc the shell sets
< 1320590565 233381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, $COLUMNS actually gets set.
< 1320590572 639788 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590579 12095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, remember that the user might resize the terminal window while your program is running
< 1320590579 975128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to install strace:
< 1320590582 116700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Targets (43): strace-4.6-1  ncurses-5.9-2  readline-6.2.001-3  bash-4.2.010-2  gawk-4.0.0-2  m4-1.4.16-2  autoconf-2.68-2  automake-1.11.1-3  bison-2.5-2
< 1320590582 170239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              findutils-4.4.2-4  sed-4.2.1-4  ca-certificates-20111025-2  curl-7.22.0-4  db-5.2.36-2  dialog-1.1_20111020-1  expat-2.0.1-7  flex-2.5.35-5  gdbm-1.8.3-9
< 1320590582 170416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              gettext-0.18.1.1-4  grep-2.9-2  gzip-1.4-4  libldap-2.4.26-5  krb5-1.9.2-1  less-444-2  lib32-libpciaccess-0.12.1-3  libcap-2.22-2  libpcap-1.1.1-4
< 1320590582 170609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              libpipeline-1.2.0-2  libusb-1.0.8-2  linux-firmware-20111101-1  nano-2.2.6-2  patch-2.6.1-3  pciutils-3.1.8-1  popt-1.16-4  pkg-config-0.26-2
< 1320590584 563603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :              sqlite3-3.7.9-1  talloc-2.0.7-1  tar-1.26-2  texinfo-4.13a-6  thunar-1.2.3-2  vi-1:050325-2  which-2.20-5  wpa_supplicant-0.7.3-4
< 1320590592 4505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doubtful your own COLUMNS would be upgraded then
< 1320590593 594833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1320590598 53033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, I'll have to roll my own.
< 1320590629 949207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, here strace only depends on perl. Guess that could pull in a lot.
< 1320590641 242174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you still on arch? That vi version number looks debianish
< 1320590643 551010 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590643 935552 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320590643 988082 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590653 109033 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace doesn't depend on all that
< 1320590663 970585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is that on arch
< 1320590664 575621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1320590672 118572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those are what vi version numbers look like
< 1320590685 634521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you do pacman -Su strace or something?
< 1320590696 356971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Syu
< 1320590704 173528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay that will do system upgrades too
< 1320590706 539302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats remembering to upgrade the system regularly
< 1320590707 987439 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. "update whole system, oh and install strace"
< 1320590712 6197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yep
< 1320590717 659008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pacman -S strace will probably just show strace :P
< 1320590719 423399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's either that or avoid synchronising
< 1320590721 168378 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not reallywquite "how to install strace"
< 1320590725 916521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I might get inconsistent packages
< 1320590731 84956 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ ctrl
< 1320590731 991463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So -Syu all the time it is
< 1320590740 661734 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320590766 659894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Guess what tput uses (it's ioctl)
< 1320590790 70262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it might use termios, but if termios is done in glibc it would likely map to ioctl
< 1320590798 73360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, strace shows ioctls, not library calls
< 1320590801 999672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err system calls
< 1320590818 629374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, termios lets you do that?
< 1320590834 400796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm -D /bin/tput
< 1320590836 228564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ioctl
< 1320590840 526542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of termios stuff
< 1320590863 417434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I must face my true problem: termios is butt-ugly.
< 1320590872 10415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is that ncurses stuff rather
< 1320590873 624131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be
< 1320590892 93900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes it is term.h stuff
< 1320590896 184208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not termios
< 1320590903 809720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit term.h
< 1320590907 945857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All roads lead to you
< 1320590917 298693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but that still doesn't deal with the input issue at all
< 1320590922 713479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you need termios for that
< 1320590928 460358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I don't want to use term.h
< 1320590930 154409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'S ugly
< 1320590933 779449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's get raw, raw, raw
< 1320590935 109963 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590935 385802 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320590935 438163 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320590936 42691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly
< 1320590936 781911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :termios is about as raw as it gets
< 1320590962 252394 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcgetattr/cfmakeraw/tcsetattr is the usual way to get raw input.
< 1320590963 340788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, term.h provides you will a way to look up the control codes. And yes ncurses headers suck.
< 1320590972 253997 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first and third call ends up in an ioctl.
< 1320590979 732723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :       The tigetflag, tigetnum and tigetstr routines return the value of the capability corresponding to the terminfo capname passed to them, such as xenl.
< 1320590979 850122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I don't understand is, how can "cols" be a capability, like this and man tput imply?
< 1320590984 962310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11, cfmakeraw is a deprecated BSD only thingy
< 1320590987 513075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell
< 1320590987 628573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like they're static configuration values from the terminfo database.
< 1320590994 261391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But obviously columns change.
< 1320591009 711384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, beats me how it handles that
< 1320591012 208515 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask for cols through an ioctl.
< 1320591019 440988 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not all terminals support that.
< 1320591022 756190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't there a signal for resized terminal?
< 1320591025 812661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that some terminals do
< 1320591026 62260 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean terminal driver.
< 1320591027 826116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all
< 1320591030 695552 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGWINCH
< 1320591063 283164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice11: Linux console/xterm/rxvt/gnome-terminal is pretty much all I care about, honestly.
< 1320591063 941914 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGWICH  mmmmmmm
< 1320591075 750151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember some terminal emulator that let me set if I wanted to use SIGWINCH or something else
< 1320591083 222223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been konsole
< 1320591084 387742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1320591117 972081 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it bad that the primary reason I decided not to use KDE is that I dislike the names of all its default software?
< 1320591123 493913 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1320591128 113138 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1320591150 702218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sole reason for me is that KDE 4 is horrible.
< 1320591157 923084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the starts-with-a-K naming scheme just makes me... kringe.
< 1320591174 235413 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't that kool?
< 1320591176 212751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome has quite a few things starting with g iirc
< 1320591182 532982 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320591216 627323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing starts with g nowadays :P
< 1320591225 291846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1320591237 476309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a few of the games iirc?
< 1320591237 532762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but usually it just kind of is attached to the front of the name rather than incorporated into the first word.
< 1320591240 536478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is somehow better?
< 1320591259 167448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AisleRiot, Quadrapassel, ...
< 1320591271 86484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gweled
< 1320591296 23071 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have gbrainy in games.
< 1320591299 491939 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Games
< 1320591299 547453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Very unofficial from the looks of it
< 1320591303 383075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm
< 1320591304 378174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not GNOME at all
< 1320591313 295348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's the only example I can think of
< 1320591343 401557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit
< 1320591346 242302 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of -- yes
< 1320591347 192401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a game)
< 1320591351 165628 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you beat me. :P
< 1320591356 685093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit is a perfectly acceptable name.
< 1320591369 143435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I base this on arbitrary aesthetic values.
< 1320591370 757202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gconf-editor
< 1320591381 805583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :g is a helpful indicator here.
< 1320591389 421856 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shorter than gnome-conf-editor
< 1320591431 563427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-panel, that doesn't just start with g, it starts with a whole "gnome"
< 1320591441 375969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> gconf-editor
< 1320591443 310442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please :P
< 1320591444 337795 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if most of the applications in Gnome started with a big capital G as the first word of the name.
< 1320591447 70982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1320591449 715138 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also feel the same way about gnome.
< 1320591461 925006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, gnome-panel is actually just Panel I think
< 1320591467 80810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-panel is just the executable
< 1320591467 475787 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/word/letter/
< 1320591496 11972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/gnome-sudoku hm
< 1320591626 516517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about gphoto2
< 1320591629 371305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that gnome?
< 1320591632 621327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if Nautilus were called Galaxy, the image viewer were called Gorgeous, Trash was instead Garbage, and there was a music player called Gain.
< 1320591640 775825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm maybe not
< 1320591644 831761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: coooooool
< 1320591652 599791 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I agree.
< 1320591717 669941 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have a Ukubuntu where "Trash" is called "Rubbish"
< 1320591723 490781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only change.
< 1320591749 778380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's called the Rubbish Bin in UK locales
< 1320591755 650129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome has many localisations, you know
< 1320591764 249070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway for portable escape codes to the terminal: term.h. For unbuffered input: termios or possibly some ioctls, not sure how portable the latter would be
< 1320591766 158070 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1320591770 688886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(between different terminals I mean)
< 1320591780 349813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "portable", do you even believe yourself. show me a terminal that can't do vt100
< 1320591789 461253 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh really? those craft gnomes.
< 1320591794 99970 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crafty
< 1320591801 504518 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sec
< 1320591812 278571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That works with modern linux and is a progra
< 1320591812 644140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :m
< 1320591823 398246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh. I was about to say VT62 :P
< 1320591824 302103 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can microsoft run do vt100?
< 1320591840 842173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :run do?
< 1320591841 786214 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*run.exe or whatever
< 1320591845 842193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.exe?
< 1320591848 161397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1320591848 617163 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1320591852 892359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely
< 1320591865 142563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <-- Wundoes Youser
< 1320591900 862410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1320591932 804025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I seen someone do terminal on matrix printer with linux 2.6.something
< 1320591932 994480 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will let you puzzle it out on your own
< 1320591936 459231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still supported
< 1320591944 226790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not a sane setup though :P
< 1320591947 521575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a terminal :P
< 1320591966 75472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot what the input was
< 1320591981 135093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can Cygwin do vt100? I recall seeing vt100-like things in it before.
< 1320591985 432797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it runs through cmd.exe
< 1320591993 160730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I used serial console myself a few times on modern linux.
< 1320592008 786375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not a person; anyway does that even count as a tty
< 1320592011 371027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does isatty think
< 1320592022 497831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for serial console? No idea
< 1320592044 6840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it thinks no
< 1320592051 626208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case the package manager will use paper trail output
< 1320592054 119217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than interactive output
< 1320592094 224573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right. A more reasonable question would: what about GUI package managers wrapping your package manager. How will you support that (if at all)
< 1320592106 110149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is packagekit, doubt that would fit you
< 1320592109 641566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what libraries are for
< 1320592115 415886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1320592128 965614 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :libraries are for books not packages.
< 1320592130 27437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paper trail output isn't gonna print a dot for every minuscule bit of progress :P
< 1320592146 624246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320592172 846588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is this for download or for installation too?
< 1320592188 978128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for... package management
< 1320592216 604248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but surely not all bits of package management needs a progress bar.
< 1320592223 945717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only those that take some time
< 1320592225 991142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's totally a thing i implied
< 1320592232 941164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're being perfectly reasonable by stating this as if it's somehow cogent
< 1320592245 337031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad you feel that
< 1320592270 375880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you plan to use it for more than just download, such as compilation and installation?
< 1320592299 930791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, by package manager all this time i've actually meant wget
< 1320592390 350722 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget is the great for Porkege Ménagement
< 1320592455 939206 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320593122 760941 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: happy day-in-which-King-James-1-is-still-alive day.
< 1320593129 651908 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where we would be without him.
< 1320593614 569426 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1320593719 851393 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320594201 871607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    def ioctl_GWINSZ(fd):
< 1320594201 992300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        try:
< 1320594202 44793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            import fcntl, termios, struct, os
< 1320594202 44949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            cr = struct.unpack('hh', fcntl.ioctl(fd, termios.TIOCGWINSZ,
< 1320594202 45055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        '1234'))
< 1320594202 780581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        except:
< 1320594204 828101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            return None
< 1320594206 802908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        return cr
< 1320594208 301096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OH GOODY
< 1320594358 428583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of tempting just to shell out to tput
< 1320594378 806364 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320594383 983687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you can do that with the portable termios api
< 1320594385 818317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. not ioctl
< 1320594387 870514 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-245-37.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1320594413 310858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq
< 1320594476 309802 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320595201 644493 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320595576 46484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1320595581 480039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fcntl.ioctl?
< 1320595582 368018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1320595596 52528 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fcntl == module name, ioctl == function name.
< 1320595596 676814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that is python
< 1320595597 592764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1320595600 167430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phew*
< 1320595612 370271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was some weird C with function pointers in structs first
< 1320598141 772903 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1320598399 381905 :shareholder!~user@unaffiliated/shareholder JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320598405 342041 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you ever have a function pointer anywhere other than a struct?
< 1320598407 217668 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :}:P
< 1320598466 434695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, in qsort() parameter list for example
< 1320598513 295268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge puts them in dynamically allocated arrays acting as stacks iirc.
< 1320598544 640410 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are qsort's parameters?
< 1320598560 66757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :check qsort(3)
< 1320598859 616086 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320598860 7291 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host
< 1320598860 59740 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320599873 189834 :shareholder!~user@unaffiliated/shareholder PART #esoteric :"Quitting"
< 1320602195 422877 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320602806 793947 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-13.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320602836 227981 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320603051 469296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320603064 531686 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEFUNGE 93 WITH NUMBERED MACROS
< 1320603070 784521 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1320603077 101234 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ hi
< 1320603079 484849 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320603082 833833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho
< 1320603095 739580 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :var "friendship ho"
< 1320603096 397454 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this isn't #esoteric-minecraft
< 1320603101 251019 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var "friendship ho"
< 1320603102 395460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  friendship ho
< 1320603113 1007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: wat
< 1320603118 690143 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ho
< 1320603123 649536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disney's Snow White
< 1320603128 308718 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarfs who do mining
< 1320603130 850189 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :implying dwarves
< 1320603130 903644 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft
< 1320603132 740437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :implying...
< 1320603138 920705 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwarf fortr--wait what?
< 1320603143 478626 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay.
< 1320603150 168898 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.
< 1320603171 506350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so Ngevd, but where are we going to find 500 unicycles?
< 1320603182 235879 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have one
< 1320603187 314528 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a dinner to eat
< 1320603192 122106 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: CURRY TIEM
< 1320603210 383046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just find 250 bicycles and cut them in half.
< 1320603230 138251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant!
< 1320603442 905703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> elliott: happy day-in-which-King-James-1-is-still-alive day.
< 1320603448 151866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ZOMBIE KING
< 1320603884 827266 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320603887 420703 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1320603910 609909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you eat fast
< 1320603918 159063 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a madras
< 1320603927 144408 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not a big eater
< 1320604003 7159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does your size have to do with anything?
< 1320604009 114775 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>
< 1320604013 291253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION small eter
< 1320604017 356883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cat
< 1320604157 451583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cat/land fish/
< 1320604266 418070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now lessee, if a cat loves to eat sea kittens...
< 1320604304 277578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of that conversation, I am eating honey right now.
< 1320604308 248382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best vomit ever.
< 1320604452 127623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did it guys
< 1320604452 854279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i foudn
< 1320604455 565675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst subreddit
< 1320604457 85943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaatheismmmmmmmmmm
< 1320604461 298194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's f7u12
< 1320604465 4599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...for /r/atheism
< 1320604482 482577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: rejoice with me
< 1320604527 260747 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1320604595 112908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://i.imgur.com/VF98o.png
< 1320604605 471899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is stellar.
< 1320604628 614381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: classic vintage rage comics; http://www.reddit.com/r/classicrage
< 1320604654 846735 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satan's in the Philippines
< 1320604676 636650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: do you like dst
< 1320604687 34607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not entirely sure I'm making the connection between that picture and stars.
< 1320604697 435042 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has its upsides
< 1320604703 963497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dst is all bad
< 1320604706 267855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no. no no no. bad.
< 1320604708 998022 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing good about it
< 1320604710 176475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad opinions
< 1320604720 31980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what
< 1320604730 447610 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:36 < elliott> this is stellar.
< 1320604737 291032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1320604755 213586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 :> etc
< 1320604890 928505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://i.imgur.com/7tEqu.jpg
< 1320604892 546846 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Commonwealth of England had a stupid flag
< 1320604899 754721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are the worst things ever made by humanity
< 1320604905 19950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact if we showed this to aliens who came down and were like
< 1320604907 653199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :justify your species
< 1320604910 261960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd be so fucked
< 1320604949 741635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what IS this PRAYER..no BURNS! no! burn!"
< 1320604952 282683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--fungot
< 1320604952 762469 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: young john soon afterward receives as a visitor a fnord spaniard, fnord de moncada, who has escaped from fnord fnord dissolved in the absolute.
< 1320604958 387143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <fungot> elliott: young john soon afterward receives as a visitor a fnord spaniard, fnord de moncada, who has escaped from fnord fnord dissolved in the absolute.
< 1320604960 134590 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: most horrible of all sights are the little unpainted wooden houses remote from travelled ways, usually squatted upon some damp grassy slope or leaning against some gigantic outcropping of rock. i looked at him i saw that my searching would have to cross the blighted, fnord woods alone to his home on the great horse, and his face and accept his alternate blows and fnord who seeks a proud and fnord, and fnord the actual
< 1320604961 950476 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :709) <fungot> elliott: young john soon afterward receives as a visitor a fnord spaniard, fnord de moncada, who has escaped from fnord fnord dissolved in the absolute.
< 1320604990 193650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1320604990 315493 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1320605004 351554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow these reddits images
< 1320605008 865596 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this reddits
< 1320605013 779909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320605017 526896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would do this
< 1320605028 210279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/BEaH0.png
< 1320605037 523081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world is so beautiful
< 1320605057 543363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part of my brain that should turn to pure blackened hatred when i see things like this
< 1320605062 967205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :got spontaneously reconfigured at some point
< 1320605072 718387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just makes me think of how beautiful life is instead, it's great
< 1320605086 681813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should like read freerepublic daily to keep my happies up
< 1320605136 554179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://i.imgur.com/b83hr.png
< 1320605139 954330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's...
< 1320605140 637857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1320605191 184413 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1320605337 867980 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had this....reconfigured brai.nnnnn
< 1320605376 16855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the key is i think
< 1320605379 767154 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i am reacting inappropriately as well, but not in such a pleasant manner....
< 1320605384 460173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extreme extrospection (totally a word) whenever you meet anything like this
< 1320605406 989114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just lean back and look at the world and also humanity and i'm like ha ha ha ha hahahahaha
< 1320605413 454774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh new iwc annotation
< 1320605436 917169 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about ATOMS
< 1320605441 39580 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess im hahahaha too but i don't know how to describe it....im bad at feelings....
< 1320605477 978025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do you even like dmm, he's so happy and upbeat.
< 1320605492 726474 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is oerjan emo
< 1320605492 999711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:43 < elliott> got spontaneously reconfigured at some point
< 1320605497 654968 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :puberty?
< 1320605498 510860 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he's like me
< 1320605501 52821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes "emoerjan"
< 1320605507 644726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: are you emo as well
< 1320605511 173070 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1320605513 747910 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am anti-emo
< 1320605520 421731 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ngemovd
< 1320605520 550101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1320605522 684872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is emo. -_;;
< 1320605527 338211 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One person showed up to my birthday party
< 1320605534 644226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was all like "who cares?"
< 1320605543 14897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's a universe to explore!"
< 1320605549 425222 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also, more cake for me!"
< 1320605566 126416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ51kW684FM
< 1320605566 912460 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320605574 506547 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel
< 1320605576 104464 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever
< 1320605577 429322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dephlogisticated air" :D
< 1320605606 107272 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that theory
< 1320605908 678871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1320605949 483029 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320605949 729343 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320605949 781944 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320606266 540849 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Actually, there is the Gregorian calendar based which is what the heading says and is likely what the author intended, but literally following the instructions in Principia Discordia for the calendar results in it based on the Julian calendar so that on 2100 AD (3266 YOLD) it will diverge, being 1 Chaos 3267 on Jan2, 2101
< 1320606557 464217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> oerjan: how do you even like dmm, he's so happy and upbeat. <-- funny you should say that, i found the previous (first new style) annotation somewhat grating that way, i didn't even read all of it.  have just opened the new one, we'll see.
< 1320607612 786879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> wowflowrs! ! 1 nobdy 0sksi a go
< 1320607620 663800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's cryptic final transmission.
< 1320607647 8658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Ngevd> I am anti-emo
< 1320607661 188516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mismisanthropicic, can we fight crime?
< 1320607686 190899 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I collide with an emo, we annihilate each-other in a burst of energy
< 1320607712 972827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how you could possibly get energy from an emo.
< 1320607731 141323 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, a burst of energy and anti-energy
< 1320607737 425484 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which then collide and form matter
< 1320607815 313137 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's all that matters
< 1320607825 745560 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Phantom_Hoover, yes. We can fight crime.
< 1320607830 832298 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meet you in Glasgow?
< 1320607849 700979 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you can't fight crime in Glasgow.
< 1320607873 240277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like trying to get rid of the space-time continuum.
< 1320607886 188103 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1320607891 1568 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meet you in Newcastle?
< 1320607909 827249 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one?
< 1320607920 790305 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upon Tyne
< 1320607997 300443 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or New South Wales, your call
< 1320608013 412076 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was replying to oerjan's message at UNIX timestamp 1320562665)
< 1320608135 523910 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many limeys.
< 1320608148 526583 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a thought
< 1320608154 873134 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could go Under Lyme?
< 1320608234 755325 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320608286 263426 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, GreaseMonkey
< 1320608292 366105 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo
< 1320609515 936499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1320610033 778201 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320610631 278895 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1320611150 84883 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320611227 750167 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se PART :#esoteric
< 1320611820 448325 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1320611913 826373 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320611989 833791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320613321 139084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :headline just seen on the news: [CG :88
< 1320613330 786387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's a typo, rather than some sort of complex smiley
< 1320613347 670462 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CG would be Karkat...
< 1320613349 689647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm
< 1320614773 865800 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320614855 102607 :edne!~rammen987@c-cba6e455.73-0015-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se PART :#esoteric
< 1320616318 168339 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320616397 538633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea for a telephone service, where it is a free feature you can enable and allows the A,B,C,D tones to access several extra commands such as diagnostics, disable call waiting, disable call display, disable toll calls, switch call display protocol, impose time limits, enter red box mode, prevent recipient from using ANI (separately from call display),
< 1320616469 639030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :disable voice mail, reverse polarity, cut the line for a duration of time, select ground start protocol, disable tone dialing, disable pulse dialing, select a call display mode that tells you whether the last digit to call you was dialed using pulse or tone, etc.
< 1320616500 445581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Act 6 is going to be amazing.
< 1320616525 11684 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if anyone can do that.
< 1320616602 997426 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Some phone operators provide a number which allows you to change your features by calling it
< 1320616635 124107 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a little bit like USSD?
< 1320616657 23775 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, otoko no ko
< 1320616696 362464 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: OK, but probably not everything I have mentioned. One idea is to have that when receiving diagnostics information, A announces by voice and C for computer receiving data.
< 1320616700 805419 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What is USSD?
< 1320616710 678914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320616733 501813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I found it in Wikipedia
< 1320616740 948890 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's a thing where you punch in a series of symbols, like a phone number except with pounds and stars, and it does something.
< 1320616750 953830 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as diagnostics or reversing the polarity.
< 1320616772 413996 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it bounce the graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish?
< 1320616788 811115 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, but nobody knows the code for that.
< 1320616820 971296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> I have an idea for a telephone service, where it is a free feature you can enable and allows the A,B,C,D [...] <-- why?
< 1320616832 580055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't out of band metadata better than in-band?
< 1320616875 768572 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The software that processes these codes is more complicated than all of Ubuntu and OS X combined, and we've also lost the source code.
< 1320616916 79031 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The reason for in band is to use standard telephones and modems to access it without requring any connection other than standard telephone lines.
< 1320616949 445020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, ubuntu can't be terribly complicated. Just look at how trivial a clean install of windows 7 is. And Ubuntu has a way smaller install size than that! (Nevermind that there are so many more features in the latter, probably just a statistical fluke)
< 1320617036 899411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, isn't land line dying anyway, compared to voip
< 1320617059 598659 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still use landline service.
< 1320617061 636543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have a landline because I have ADSL, but most people I know with cable or fibre have switched to voip
< 1320617100 102917 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I meant "Ubuntu and all packages available for it in the official repositories".
< 1320617104 499505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, ah
< 1320617112 645339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, yeah that is /quite/ a bit more then
< 1320617128 50710 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Landline service does not require a computer, and the protocol is sufficiently simple that you can build your own telephone with a few spare parts (as long as pulse dialing is not disabled)
< 1320617136 166167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, sigh, if only there was a distro with a repo as extensive as ubuntu but rolling release....
< 1320617175 812920 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rollbuntu
< 1320617177 489803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch has two major issues for me: multilib support is crappy. No split debug info. Still. There is work being done on the latter though.
< 1320617208 97340 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with the multilib support
< 1320617209 531933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course debian's package building system is a mess
< 1320617275 34091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, badly incomplete
< 1320617286 127699 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so
< 1320617316 661545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing headers for 32-bit, few libraries. I mean there was no OpenMPI library for 32-bit last I checked
< 1320617320 825732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1320617335 606281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 32-bit libraries that exist are there to support a few packages, like zsnes and so on
< 1320617350 34085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from those required by the binary 32-bit packages in the repo: not much
< 1320617384 490462 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough; personally I've yet to need anything that wasn't in the repo
< 1320617432 958153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and if you use arch: valgrind fucks up on cfunge atm. I think it is a missing suppression for gmtime() or some internal function it uses.
< 1320617442 586535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the latest glibc that is
< 1320617450 138873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no errors when running on ubuntu
< 1320617461 612593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(10.04 LTS)
< 1320617471 507826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so a bit older glibc)
< 1320617492 19185 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any of the BayHac2011 Haskell programs exist?
< 1320617545 722105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also the lack of debug info for glibc means I can't really track down the missing suppression...
< 1320617578 504300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-dbg packages work perfectly on ubuntu
< 1320617905 172459 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1320618111 969345 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-96.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1320618719 122198 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320618745 836959 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320618746 376859 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host
< 1320618746 429959 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320618862 92746 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1320618946 644709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you happen to remember the name of that libc elliott was interested in?
< 1320618957 337882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1320618959 667686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1320618975 790380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it started with m. Time for a very wide grep of the logs
< 1320618981 766355 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl?
< 1320618988 809583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks
< 1320618990 110211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was it
< 1320619408 26945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm based on http://www.etalabs.net/compare_libcs.html it still looks like eglibc is a better bet for most desktop systems. It is only worse than musl in a few cases, but has so much better support for lots of features.
< 1320619442 741032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still worth trying building against
< 1320620788 768531 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a very good libc, if still a work in progress.
< 1320620832 903442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, still, missing out on C99 math and so on. :/
< 1320620904 407631 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db401a3.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1320621098 754797 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-221-94.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, C99 math is hard to do well.
< 1320621162 59335 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1320621308 12968 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
< 1320621309 531608 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1320621460 201284 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320622247 858426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Yeah, C99 math is hard to do well. <-- oh?
< 1320622485 454524 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :tiffnya
< 1320622493 596384 :tiffnya!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-148.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :tiffany
< 1320622811 614878 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1320622820 671223 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone here help me with my Brainfuck interpreter? I've got most of it down except for loops, which are not so much looped as they are ran once. http://codepad.org/eznPVPyy
< 1320622989 313836 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone?
< 1320623025 152650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1320623077 994522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't assigning the result of jumpPosition.pop() to anything
< 1320623152 27824 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, then.
< 1320623225 211079 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop() is void, though...
< 1320623375 798946 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts, ais523?
< 1320623494 54301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1320623560 861232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, err:                jumpPosition.push(ptr+1);
< 1320623573 495277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, you should run the condition every time surely
< 1320623588 857905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to run the condition when you enter the loop anyway
< 1320623597 846448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you don't seem to do
< 1320623606 776541 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run the condition?  I don't get it,
< 1320623615 171414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, A loop might run zero times.
< 1320623617 466300 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah wait, you mean testing the stack for whether it's empty?
< 1320623622 366945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the current cell if 0
< 1320623625 944559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't ever run
< 1320623639 18315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will stop when at the start of an iteration the current cell is zero
< 1320623652 104943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the loop logic is wrong
< 1320623656 912899 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's the point of the Brainfuck language isn't it?
< 1320623661 512212 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm...
< 1320623667 591440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you don't seem to do that currently
< 1320623686 764691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you check if (*ptr) at the end of the loop
< 1320623695 262230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means every loop will run at least once
< 1320623744 560584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BlueProtoman, you need code to scan forward to the matching ] without executing
< 1320623755 712129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a loop can be executed zero times
< 1320623777 431468 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see...I can maybe throw another function in there for that.
< 1320623795 422165 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So check for a ], then...hm...
< 1320623798 210674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I would parse it into a tree then exeute the tree.
< 1320623802 307211 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is tougher than I thought.
< 1320623844 749749 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tree?  I think I'm lost now.  I've only been studying C++ for a few months.
< 1320623863 986737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really been a fan of interpreting directly on the source (and before anyone points out I wrote several befunge implementations, let me point out that there is no other sensible way to implement it in that case!)
< 1320623890 566689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, ask ais523. I'm not good at explaining.
< 1320623935 311472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm about to go home
< 1320623935 545557 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna write a BF IDE that can both compile and interpret.
< 1320623953 957048 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting it together bit by bit by bit.
< 1320623982 966060 :BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@68-244-49-244.pools.spcsdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thanks anyway.